From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 0:36: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BCFC37B4EC; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 00:35:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f148ZTt19389; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 00:35:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102040835.f148ZTt19389@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Robert Watson , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Watch your devfs permissions in driver make_dev calls In-Reply-To: <20010204115741.G27504@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 00:35:29 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 2 February 2001 at 20:10:10 -0800, Peter Wemm wrote: > > Robert Watson wrote: > > > >> crw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 78, 0 Dec 31 1969 pci > > > > This one may appear harmless, but it is not. It is trivially easy to creat e > > an alignment fault (fatal on an alpha) with the userland pciconf tool. > > We must not allow this to be used by users until the kernel part is fixed. > > > > Eg: try this on an alpha: pciconf -r -l pci0:x:x 0x3 - ie: read a longword > > at byte offset 3 in configuration space.. kaboom! > > This looks like a separate issue. Presumably you can do this as root > as well. pciconf should check the parameters. The kernel should check the parameters passed in from the userland, at least, it should not die like this. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 3:46:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com (mailout04.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A51937B401 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 03:45:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.com by mailout04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14PNc4-0006nR-02; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 12:45:48 +0100 Received: from neutron.cichlids.com (520050424122-0001@[62.225.192.6]) by fmrl05.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 14PNbq-1d89BYC; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:45:34 +0100 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by neutron.cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86BD8AB44; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:45:37 +0100 (CET) Received: by cichlids.cichlids.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7F49D14A5C; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:45:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:45:31 +0100 To: Dan Langille Cc: Dima Dorfman , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An example script for creating a bootable floppy Message-ID: <20010204124531.C3454@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <200102040222.f142MsR08229@ns1.unixathome.org> <20010204032700.708183E0D@bazooka.unixfreak.org> <200102040359.f143xuR08405@ns1.unixathome.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102040359.f143xuR08405@ns1.unixathome.org>; from dan@langille.org on Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 05:19:02PM +1300 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. From: alex@big.endian.de (Alexander Langer) X-Sender: 520050424122-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Dan Langille (dan@langille.org): > I get a root mount failed, then a panic, but at least it's a kernel. If I make > any more progress, I'll le you know. Did you strip it? I have way smaller kernels here, which have much more options. Btw: Just gzip the file and call it /kernel.gz on the floppy, the loader can handle this. Alex -- cat: /home/alex/.sig: No such file or directory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 8:55: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spoon.beta.com (064-184-210-067.inaddr.vitts.com [64.184.210.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C6D537B401 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 08:54:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from spoon.beta.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spoon.beta.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f14Gsh808001 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:54:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mcgovern@spoon.beta.com) Message-Id: <200102041654.f14Gsh808001@spoon.beta.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: exit() does not do dlclose()? Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 11:54:43 -0500 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm playing with an application that uses dlopen() to load some libraries. I use the _init function to set the libraries up. I've also set up the _fini functions to shut things down. I see, in the man page, that dlclose() will unload the libraries and call _fini. My question is whether or not exit() does the same thing? It currently does not appear to, although that would seem rather odd to me, given the other types of cleanup it does. Is this due to the fact that dlopen() bypasses the 'normal' loader, and therefore the cleanup routines can not understand how to get rid of them correctly? -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 12:28:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7365737B401 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:28:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f14KSGD16125; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:28:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:28:16 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102042028.f14KSGD16125@earth.backplane.com> To: Brian McGovern Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: exit() does not do dlclose()? References: <200102041654.f14Gsh808001@spoon.beta.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I'm playing with an application that uses dlopen() to load some libraries. I :use the _init function to set the libraries up. I've also set up the _fini :functions to shut things down. : :I see, in the man page, that dlclose() will unload the libraries and call :_fini. : :My question is whether or not exit() does the same thing? It currently does :not appear to, although that would seem rather odd to me, given the other :types of cleanup it does. : :Is this due to the fact that dlopen() bypasses the 'normal' loader, and :therefore the cleanup routines can not understand how to get rid of them :correctly? : : -Brian What happens if the exit code needs information stored in the library it is trying to close? For example, like atexit() code? If a program is exiting, there is no real need to close any loaded libraries since they will be wiped when the VM context goes away. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 15:12:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6528437B4EC for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:12:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f14NCT292154; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:12:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@wall.polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.11.1/8.11.0) id f14NCPk02811; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:12:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:12:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200102042312.f14NCPk02811@vashon.polstra.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org From: John Polstra Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: mcgovern@spoon.beta.com Subject: Re: exit() does not do dlclose()? In-Reply-To: <200102041654.f14Gsh808001@spoon.beta.com> References: <200102041654.f14Gsh808001@spoon.beta.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <200102041654.f14Gsh808001@spoon.beta.com>, Brian McGovern wrote: > I'm playing with an application that uses dlopen() to load some libraries. I > use the _init function to set the libraries up. I've also set up the _fini > functions to shut things down. > > I see, in the man page, that dlclose() will unload the libraries and call > _fini. > > My question is whether or not exit() does the same thing? It currently does > not appear to, although that would seem rather odd to me, given the other > types of cleanup it does. It should clean them up including calling their _fini functions. From src/libexec/rtld-elf/rtld.c: /* * Cleanup procedure. It will be called (by the atexit mechanism) just * before the process exits. */ static void rtld_exit(void) { Obj_Entry *obj; dbg("rtld_exit()"); wlock_acquire(); /* Clear all the reference counts so the fini functions will be called. */ for (obj = obj_list; obj != NULL; obj = obj->next) obj->refcount = 0; wlock_release(); objlist_call_fini(&list_fini); /* No need to remove the items from the list, since we are exiting. */ } If you can come up with a reasonably self-contained test case that shows a bug in this, I'll be happy to take a look at it. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Disappointment is a good sign of basic intelligence." -- Chögyam Trungpa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 16:10:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spoon.beta.com (064-184-210-067.inaddr.vitts.com [64.184.210.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F45937B401 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 16:10:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from spoon.beta.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spoon.beta.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f150Ab809972 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 19:10:37 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mcgovern@spoon.beta.com) Message-Id: <200102050010.f150Ab809972@spoon.beta.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: exit() does not do dlclose()? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 04 Feb 2001 15:12:25 PST." <200102042312.f14NCPk02811@vashon.polstra.com> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 19:10:37 -0500 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't know how easy it would be to strip out the case I'm seeing. The program I'm working with is bascially a control application for vgetty's voice functions. It may be a case of stack smashing, as the call tends to be something like: main() -> function in loaded library -> exit(). However, I also saw it in the case when I'd basically have the function in the shared lib exit back to main(), and have the exit() function called from there. Let me see if I can create a 'simple' case that causes it. Otherwise, if you want a more complex example that requires a specific enviornment to demonstrate it, I'll send you my code-in-progress. -Brian > In article <200102041654.f14Gsh808001@spoon.beta.com>, > Brian McGovern wrote: > > I'm playing with an application that uses dlopen() to load some libraries. I > > use the _init function to set the libraries up. I've also set up the _fini > > functions to shut things down. > > > > I see, in the man page, that dlclose() will unload the libraries and call > > _fini. > > > > My question is whether or not exit() does the same thing? It currently doe s > > not appear to, although that would seem rather odd to me, given the other > > types of cleanup it does. > > It should clean them up including calling their _fini functions. From > src/libexec/rtld-elf/rtld.c: > > /* > * Cleanup procedure. It will be called (by the atexit mechanism) just > * before the process exits. > */ > static void > rtld_exit(void) > { > Obj_Entry *obj; > > dbg("rtld_exit()"); > wlock_acquire(); > /* Clear all the reference counts so the fini functions will be called. */ > for (obj = obj_list; obj != NULL; obj = obj->next) > obj->refcount = 0; > wlock_release(); > objlist_call_fini(&list_fini); > /* No need to remove the items from the list, since we are exiting. */ > } > > If you can come up with a reasonably self-contained test case that > shows a bug in this, I'll be happy to take a look at it. > > John > -- > John Polstra jdp@polstra.com > John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA > "Disappointment is a good sign of basic intelligence." -- Chögyam Trungpa > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 17:18:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B168237B401 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:18:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA91041 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 20:18:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 20:18:29 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: request for review: send-pr article Message-ID: <20010204201829.A91014@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Oh almight source hackers, I'm writing an article on how to use send-pr, based on gleanings from this list and others over the years. Since wrong advice there could easily generate a lot of lousy PRs, I was hoping one or two of you folks who actually *read* PRs might be willing to review it for me. Thanks, ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 18:18:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B36537B401 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:18:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from opal (cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.123.101]) by bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f152IRY25456 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 21:18:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 21:18:23 -0500 (EST) From: Zhiui Zhang X-Sender: zzhang@opal To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: No-passwd account and reboot records Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is it possible to create a no-password account? Is it possible to record in a file the times of each reboots? If so, how to do this? Thanks. -Zhihui To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 18:42:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.viasoft.com.cn (unknown [61.153.1.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF0037B698 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:42:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from William ([192.168.1.98]) by mail.viasoft.com.cn (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01755 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:37:05 +0800 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:50:15 +0800 From: bsddiy X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f) Personal Reply-To: bsddiy X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <887470982.20010205105015@163.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: accf_timeout Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, could any one tell me if accf_http handle recieve timeout? I know Apache has I/O timeout on socket, default is 5 minutes. Regards, David Xu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 20:18:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us [216.186.55.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A8F37B401 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 20:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (protozoa@localhost) by ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28060; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 20:18:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from protozoa@ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 20:14:10 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Feldman To: Zhiui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: No-passwd account and reboot records In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Of course. If you want no password, just set it to blank. This is a very poor idea for anything not behind a heavy firewall, by the way. If you use adduser, you'll be warned. Reboot times are stored in wtmp, which can be viewed along with login times with the last command. Alternatively, it should be trivial to modify /etc/rc.local (or /usr/local/etc/rc.d) to record the time of each bootup. Shutdown recording should be simple too. Hope I'm making sense right now, -- Dan Feldman On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Zhiui Zhang wrote: > > Is it possible to create a no-password account? Is it possible to record > in a file the times of each reboots? If so, how to do this? Thanks. > > -Zhihui > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 20:51:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 797DE37B503 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 20:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f154oqh78382; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 23:50:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 23:50:51 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Dan Feldman Cc: Zhiui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: No-passwd account and reboot records In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If you're using sshd for user login, you'll need to change: PermitEmptyPasswords no to PermitEmptyPasswords yes In /etc/ssh/sshd_config, and restart sshd. My suspicion is that this is an inconsistent choice across various login methods, and that the default should be "yes", even thought that allows people to shoot themselves more easily. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Dan Feldman wrote: > Of course. > > If you want no password, just set it to blank. This is a very poor idea > for anything not behind a heavy firewall, by the way. If you use adduser, > you'll be warned. > > Reboot times are stored in wtmp, which can be viewed along with login > times with the last command. Alternatively, it should be trivial to modify > /etc/rc.local (or /usr/local/etc/rc.d) to record the time of each bootup. > Shutdown recording should be simple too. > > Hope I'm making sense right now, > > -- Dan Feldman > > On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Zhiui Zhang wrote: > > > > > Is it possible to create a no-password account? Is it possible to record > > in a file the times of each reboots? If so, how to do this? Thanks. > > > > -Zhihui > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 22:22:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailsweeper.qdc-ec.co.za (gauntlet.mccarthy.co.za [196.26.24.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD3537B4EC; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 22:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntzn2.rainbow.co.za (unverified) by mailsweeper.qdc-ec.co.za (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:25:27 +0200 Received: by ntzn2-ip2.rainbow.co.za with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <11L621JA>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:21:45 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Niekie Myburgh (QData)" To: "'freebsd-questions@freebsd.org'" , "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: passwd, npasswd, PAM and password ageing Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:19:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C08F3B.9B639110" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08F3B.9B639110 Content-Type: text/plain Can anyone tell me how to get password ageing working on FreeBSD 4.2. I have to stop users from re-using their passwords. On Linux, pam_cracklib and pam_passwdqc does the trick, but on BSD, they are just being ignored. I tried npassword, but that was made for Solaris & other operating systems, and does not compile (easily) on BSD. If you does get it to compile, it does the core dump thing. It also rely on shadow passwords, and other things that does not seem to be present on FreeBSD. I would appreciate any help I can get in this regard. Thanx. Niekie ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08F3B.9B639110 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable passwd, npasswd, PAM and password ageing

Can anyone tell me how to get password = ageing working on FreeBSD 4.2.  I have to stop users from re-using = their passwords.  On Linux, pam_cracklib and pam_passwdqc does the = trick, but on BSD, they are just being ignored.  I tried = npassword, but that was made for Solaris & other operating systems, = and does not compile (easily) on BSD.  If you does get it to = compile, it does the core dump thing.  It also rely on shadow = passwords, and other things that does not seem to be present on = FreeBSD.  I would appreciate any help I can get in this = regard.

Thanx.

Niekie

------_=_NextPart_001_01C08F3B.9B639110-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 23:23:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uberhacker.org (uberhacker.org [204.210.12.243]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 36B5937B401 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 23:23:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 70268 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Feb 2001 07:23:02 -0000 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 23:23:02 -0800 From: "Paul D. Schmidt" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: known pthread bug? Message-ID: <20010204232301.C30977@uberhacker.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Are there currently any known bugs with pthread_mutex_init and pthread_cond_init returning 0, but pthread_cond_wait returning EINVAL nonetheless? Thanks, -Paul -- Paul D. Schmidt | Coder / Sys Admin | Unbound Communications | http://www.unboundcom.com "The grass may actually be greener on the other side of the fence, but it still has to be mowed." --Anonymous To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 4 23:51:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailsweeper.qdc-ec.co.za (gauntlet.mccarthy.co.za [196.26.24.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E725F37B401; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 23:50:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ntzn2.rainbow.co.za (unverified) by mailsweeper.qdc-ec.co.za (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:54:13 +0200 Received: by ntzn2-ip2.rainbow.co.za with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <11L62132>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:47:48 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Niekie Myburgh (QData)" To: 'Sean Winn' Cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" , "'freebsd-questions@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: passwd, npasswd, PAM and password ageing Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:51:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C08F48.80383B40" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08F48.80383B40 Content-Type: text/plain I went through the login.conf man page. Everything there works quite nice (Force change, force upper/lower case etc.), except that I cannot figure out how to stop the user from re-using last month's password. ie. How can I make BSD remeber the passwords that was used during the last 6 changes, and stop the user from using them again. I also need a bit more control on the password side. Our company policy specifies that the password meet at least 3 of the following 4 criteria: lowercase uppercase numbers punctuation (!@#$%^&*()+":>?<) BSD enforces (as far as I can see) only 2 of the four. Any suggestions / sample pam.conf entries will be apreciated. Regards. Niekie > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Winn [SMTP:sean@gothic.net.au] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:33 AM > To: Niekie Myburgh (QData) > Subject: Re: passwd, npasswd, PAM and password ageing > > At 08:19 5/02/01 +0200, you wrote: > > >Can anyone tell me how to get password ageing working on FreeBSD 4.2. I > >have to stop users from re-using their passwords. On Linux, pam_cracklib > > >and pam_passwdqc does the trick, but on BSD, they are just being > >ignored. I tried npassword, but that was made for Solaris & other > >operating systems, and does not compile (easily) on BSD. If you does get > > >it to compile, it does the core dump thing. It also rely on shadow > >passwords, and other things that does not seem to be present on > >FreeBSD. I would appreciate any help I can get in this regard. > > Shadow passwords are standard. They're in /etc/master.passwd > > login.conf (man 5 login.conf) controls password aging and other > facilities. > > > >Thanx. > > > >Niekie ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08F48.80383B40 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: passwd, npasswd, PAM and password ageing

I went through the = login.conf man page.  Everything there works quite nice (Force = change, force upper/lower case etc.), except that I cannot figure out = how to stop the user from re-using last month's password.  ie. How = can I make BSD remeber the passwords that was used during the last 6 = changes, and stop the user from using them again.  I also need a = bit more control on the password side.  Our company policy = specifies that the password meet at least 3 of the following 4 = criteria:

lowercase
uppercase
numbers
punctuation = (!@#$%^&*()+":>?<)

BSD enforces (as far = as I can see) only 2 of the four.  Any suggestions / sample = pam.conf entries will be apreciated.



Regards.

Niekie

    -----Original Message-----
    From:   Sean Winn [SMTP:sean@gothic.net.au]
    Sent:   Monday, February 05, 2001 9:33 AM
    To:     Niekie Myburgh (QData)
    Subject:       = Re: passwd, npasswd, PAM and = password ageing

    At 08:19  5/02/01 +0200, you = wrote:

    >Can anyone tell me how to get = password ageing working on FreeBSD 4.2.  I
    >have to stop users from re-using = their passwords.  On Linux, pam_cracklib
    >and pam_passwdqc does the trick, = but on BSD, they are just being
    >ignored.  I tried npassword, = but that was made for Solaris & other
    >operating systems, and does not = compile (easily) on BSD.  If you does get
    >it to compile, it does the core = dump thing.  It also rely on shadow
    >passwords, and other things that = does not seem to be present on
    >FreeBSD.  I would appreciate = any help I can get in this regard.

    Shadow passwords are standard. They're = in /etc/master.passwd

    login.conf (man 5 login.conf) controls = password aging and other facilities.


    >Thanx.
    >
    >Niekie

------_=_NextPart_001_01C08F48.80383B40-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 0:59:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4BCA37B65D for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 00:59:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f158xbn21011; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 00:59:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 00:59:37 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Paul D. Schmidt" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: known pthread bug? Message-ID: <20010205005937.M26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20010204232301.C30977@uberhacker.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010204232301.C30977@uberhacker.org>; from pds@uberhacker.org on Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 11:23:02PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Paul D. Schmidt [010204 23:23] wrote: > Are there currently any known bugs with pthread_mutex_init > and pthread_cond_init returning 0, but pthread_cond_wait > returning EINVAL nonetheless? Can you provide a code sample to replicate this and specify which version of FreeBSD you're using? -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 2:54:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from blake.arcadia.spb.ru (ns.arcadia.spb.ru [212.119.177.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AFE337B401 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 02:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from antigw.arcadia.intranet (antigw.arcadia.intranet [172.16.16.4]) by blake.arcadia.spb.ru (8.9.2/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA14370 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:16:42 +0300 (MSK) Received: from dhcp85.arcadia.intranet ([172.16.16.85]:4116) (HELO dhcp85.arcadia.intranet) by antigw.arcadia.intranet ([172.16.16.4]:25) (F-Secure Anti-Virus for Internet Mail 5.0.53 Release) with SMTP; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:46:17 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:52:43 +0300 From: Lev Serebryakov X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.46d) Personal Reply-To: Lev Serebryakov Organization: Private Copy X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <54433242820.20010205135243@serebryakov.spb.ru> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: gprof & granularity of output Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello hackers, Is here method to decrease granularity of grpof output for some function? I need know time of execution of every statement (loop, if-then-else, etc.) of one function in my c program... -- Best regards, Lev mailto:lev@serebryakov.spb.ru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 3:28:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9915737B401 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 03:28:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 5 Feb 2001 11:28:08 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:28:07 +0000 From: David Malone To: Lev Serebryakov Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gprof & granularity of output Message-ID: <20010205112807.A42431@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <54433242820.20010205135243@serebryakov.spb.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <54433242820.20010205135243@serebryakov.spb.ru>; from lev@serebryakov.spb.ru on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 01:52:43PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 01:52:43PM +0300, Lev Serebryakov wrote: > Is here method to decrease granularity of grpof output for some > function? I need know time of execution of every statement (loop, > if-then-else, etc.) of one function in my c program... You could try using gcov - it tells you how many times each line was executed. Unfortunately gcov isn't installed by default in -stable at the moment. There are patches in: http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=18574 to enable the building of it. David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 4:57:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB03A37B6A2 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 04:57:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id HAA12463; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:56:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:56:39 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen To: "Paul D. Schmidt" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: known pthread bug? In-Reply-To: <20010204232301.C30977@uberhacker.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Paul D. Schmidt wrote: > Are there currently any known bugs with pthread_mutex_init > and pthread_cond_init returning 0, but pthread_cond_wait > returning EINVAL nonetheless? Yes, it's a known bug with the _application_ ;-) pthread_cond_[timed]wait must be called with a mutex and that must be the only mutex used with that condition variable. For instance: pthread_mutex_t m1, m2; pthread_cond_t cv; thread 1: pthread_mutex_lock(&m1); ret = pthread_cond_wait(&cv, &m1); pthread_mutex_unlock(&m1); thread 2: pthread_mutex_lock(&m2); ret = pthread_cond_wait(&cv, &m2); pthread_mutex_unlock(&m2); can result in one of the threads returning EINVAL from pthread_cond_wait if one thread is already waiting on the condition variable when the other thread calls pthread_cond_wait(). There is no problem if only one thread is waiting on the condition variable at any one time, but that still should be avoided. -- Dan Eischen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 4:58:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AD5237B6A2 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 04:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f15CdGE09532 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:39:16 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200102051239.f15CdGE09532@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:58:16 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: ping over IPSEC works in only one direction Reply-To: dan@langille.org X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been playing with IPSEC between two boxes. ping works as expected until I add in the keys. Then ping only works from one box from not the other. tcpdump reveals all traffic to be ESP. Keys on 19.168.1.1 add 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.1 esp 1100 -E 3des-cbc "bastbastbastbastbastbast"; add 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.101 esp 1101 -E 3des-cbc "settsettsettsettsettsett"; spdadd 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.101 any -P out ipsec esp/transport//use ah/transport//use; Keys on 19.168.1.101 add 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.1 esp 1100 -E 3des-cbc "bastbastbastbastbastbast"; add 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.101 esp 1101 -E 3des-cbc "settsettsettsettsettsett"; spdadd 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.1 any -P out ipsec esp/transport//use ah/transport//use; The following is a ping 192.168.1.1. Similar traffic exists for a ping 192.168.1.101 # tcpdump -i ed0 proto 1 or proto 50 tcpdump: listening on ed0 01:24:34.216930 192.168.1.1 > 192.168.1.101: ESP(spi=1101,seq=0x2a2) 01:24:34.217994 192.168.1.101 > 192.168.1.1: ESP(spi=1100,seq=0x268) 01:24:35.226859 192.168.1.1 > 192.168.1.101: ESP(spi=1101,seq=0x2a3) 01:24:35.227924 192.168.1.101 > 192.168.1.1: ESP(spi=1100,seq=0x269) 01:24:36.236814 192.168.1.1 > 192.168.1.101: ESP(spi=1101,seq=0x2a4) 01:24:36.237896 192.168.1.101 > 192.168.1.1: ESP(spi=1100,seq=0x26a) The above tells me that the traffic is using protocol 50 both ways. However, ping 192.168.1.101 fails like this: PING 192.168.1.101 (192.168.1.101): 56 data bytes ^C --- 192.168.1.101 ping statistics --- 69 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss The packets are being received as reported by ipfilter: # ipfstat -hio 12256 pass out from any to any 21 pass out quick proto esp from any to any 11995 pass in from any to any 21 pass in quick proto esp from any to any clues please! thanks -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 5:23:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nettoll.com (matrix.nettoll.net [212.155.143.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62C7D37B401 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 05:23:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by smtp.nettoll.com; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:21:39 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <4.3.0.20010205143317.05751cd0@pop.free.fr> X-Sender: usebsd@pop.free.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:36:35 +0100 To: "Jeffrey D. Wheelhouse" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: mouss Subject: Re: POSIX mutexes on FreeBSD Cc: jdw_list@wwwi.com In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010202110620.0220cb98@pop.wwwi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:20 02/02/01 -0800, Jeffrey D. Wheelhouse wrote: >Hi, > >While porting a project from Solaris to FreeBSD 4.2, I found out that the >existing FreeBSD implementation of POSIX mutexes doesn't support sharing >mutexes between processes. > >In order to get around this, I eventually did my own implementation of >mutexes that works within the uthread framework and supports the >PTHREAD_PROCESS_SHARED attribute. do you mean that the "PTHREAD_PROCESS_SHARED", pthread_mutexattr_getpshared and the like do not currently work? dunno if they were there before, but they are in current. so you might want to check. cheers, mouss To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 7:26:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 382F537B65D; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:26:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1CC6D57610; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:26:59 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:26:59 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: fs@freebsd.org Subject: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning Message-ID: <20010205092658.A97400@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello Everyone, While talking to a friend about what his company is planning to do, I found out that he is planning a 70TB filesystem/servers/cluster/db. (Yes, seventy t-e-r-a-b-y-t-e...) Apparently, he has files that go up to 2gb each, and actually require such a horribly sized cluster. If he wanted a PC cluster, and having 5TB on each PC, he would have 350 machines to maintain. From past experience maintaining clusters, I guarantee that he will have at least 1 box failing every other day. And I really do not think his idea of using NFS is that good. ;-) Now if we were to go to the high-end route (and probably more cost effective), we can pick SAN's, large Sun fileservers, or somesuch. I still cannot picture him being able to maintain file integrity. I say that he should attempt to split his filesystems into much smaller chunks, say 1TB each. And attempt some way of having a RAID5 array. Mirroring or other RAID configurations would prove too costly. What would you guys do in this case? :) -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 7:39:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.ccmr.cornell.edu (mercury.ccmr.cornell.edu [128.84.231.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A33F337B491; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:39:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ruby.ccmr.cornell.edu (IDENT:0@ruby.ccmr.cornell.edu [128.84.231.115]) by mercury.ccmr.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13217; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:39:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (mitch@localhost) by ruby.ccmr.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06449; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:39:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ruby.ccmr.cornell.edu: mitch owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:39:02 -0500 (EST) From: Mitch Collinsworth To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning In-Reply-To: <20010205092658.A97400@peorth.iteration.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You didn't say what applications this thing is going to support. That does matter. A lot. One thing worth looking at is AFS, or maybe MR-AFS. And now OpenAFS. -Mitch On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Michael C . Wu wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > While talking to a friend about what his company is planning to do, > I found out that he is planning a 70TB filesystem/servers/cluster/db. > (Yes, seventy t-e-r-a-b-y-t-e...) > > Apparently, he has files that go up to 2gb each, and actually require > such a horribly sized cluster. > > If he wanted a PC cluster, and having 5TB on each PC, he would have > 350 machines to maintain. From past experience maintaining clusters, > I guarantee that he will have at least 1 box failing every other day. > And I really do not think his idea of using NFS is that good. ;-) > > Now if we were to go to the high-end route (and probably more cost > effective), we can pick SAN's, large Sun fileservers, or somesuch. > I still cannot picture him being able to maintain file integrity. > > I say that he should attempt to split his filesystems into much > smaller chunks, say 1TB each. And attempt some way of having a RAID5 > array. Mirroring or other RAID configurations would prove too costly. > What would you guys do in this case? :) > -- > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | > | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 7:43:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-relay-pune.ernet.in (mail-relay-PUNE.ernet.in [202.41.82.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76B3337B401 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:43:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from jivdhan.unipune.ernet.in (mailhub.unipune.ernet.in [196.1.114.31]) by mail-relay-pune.ernet.in (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05653 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 21:24:46 +0530 Received: from cs.unipune.ernet.in (root@cs.unipune.ernet.in [196.1.114.3]) by jivdhan.unipune.ernet.in (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f15FaR407450 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 21:06:27 +0530 Received: from cs7.cs.unipune.ernet.in (root@cs7.cs.unipune.ernet.in [192.9.150.7]) by cs.unipune.ernet.in (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA06546 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:15:20 GMT Received: from localhost (u99103@localhost) by cs7.cs.unipune.ernet.in (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f15CA3c27672 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 21:10:03 +0900 X-Authentication-Warning: cs7.cs.unipune.ernet.in: u99103 owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 21:10:03 +0900 (JAYT) From: Amit Kumar To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Subscribe. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 7:50:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 427F537B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Po2H-0000K2-00; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 08:58:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3A7ECDAD.D19479D6@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 08:58:37 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zhiui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No-passwd account and reboot records References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Zhiui Zhang wrote: > > Is it possible to create a no-password account? Is it possible to record > in a file the times of each reboots? If so, how to do this? Thanks. Reboot (and shutdown) times are recorded in the wtmp file. See utmp(5) for details. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 7:52:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from msp-65-25-230-128.mn.rr.com (msp-65-25-230-128.mn.rr.com [65.25.230.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1762137B4EC; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:52:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from z3rk@localhost) by msp-65-25-230-128.mn.rr.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f15FqUp23714; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:52:30 -0600 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:52:30 -0600 From: Goblin To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning Message-ID: <20010205095229.A30253@msp-65-25-230-128.mn.rr.com> References: <20010205092658.A97400@peorth.iteration.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i In-Reply-To: <20010205092658.A97400@peorth.iteration.net>; from keichii@iteration.net on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 09:26:59AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG NetApp filers? And what exactly is too costly? He's got enormous costs just in doing backups of this thing, and the savings in using NetApp filers for doing "snapshots" instead of standard backups will buy you some disk in the end... What is this data used for? Archival? How oft is it accessed? How much of the data is "live"? Has he looked at something other than plain disk? Broaden his horizens and get specifics of his needs. On 02/05, Michael C . Wu rearranged the electrons to read: > Hello Everyone, > > While talking to a friend about what his company is planning to do, > I found out that he is planning a 70TB filesystem/servers/cluster/db. > (Yes, seventy t-e-r-a-b-y-t-e...) > > Apparently, he has files that go up to 2gb each, and actually require > such a horribly sized cluster. > > If he wanted a PC cluster, and having 5TB on each PC, he would have > 350 machines to maintain. From past experience maintaining clusters, > I guarantee that he will have at least 1 box failing every other day. > And I really do not think his idea of using NFS is that good. ;-) > > Now if we were to go to the high-end route (and probably more cost > effective), we can pick SAN's, large Sun fileservers, or somesuch. > I still cannot picture him being able to maintain file integrity. > > I say that he should attempt to split his filesystems into much > smaller chunks, say 1TB each. And attempt some way of having a RAID5 > array. Mirroring or other RAID configurations would prove too costly. > What would you guys do in this case? :) > -- > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | > | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | > +------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message Your eyes are weary from staring at the CRT. You feel sleepy. Notice how restful it is to watch the cursor blink. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 7:55:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from vieo.com (vieo.com [216.30.79.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F87437B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:55:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from johng@localhost) by vieo.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f15FtGJ38330; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:55:16 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from johng) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:55:16 -0600 (CST) From: John Gregor Message-Id: <200102051555.f15FtGJ38330@vieo.com> To: keichii@iteration.net Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010205092658.A97400@peorth.iteration.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What would you guys do in this case? :) I'd call up my friendly regional SGI, Sun, IBM, and Compaq reps and have them put together proposals. I'm a former SGI guy and know that we've had a bunch of installations of this size and larger (much larger). It's not that big a deal any more. I don't know if that's true for the other vendors, having xfs and 128 processor machines tends to warp one's definiton of what is "hard". :-) -JohnG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 8: 0:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D624237B503; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7D37957610; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:00:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:00:16 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Mitch Collinsworth Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning Message-ID: <20010205100016.C97400@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" References: <20010205092658.A97400@peorth.iteration.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from mitch@ccmr.cornell.edu on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 10:39:02AM -0500 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 10:39:02AM -0500, Mitch Collinsworth scribbled: | You didn't say what applications this thing is going to support. | That does matter. A lot. One thing worth looking at is AFS, | or maybe MR-AFS. And now OpenAFS. He has database(s) of graphics simulation results. i.e. large files that are largely unrelated to each other. Compression is not an option. The files are accessed approximately 3 or 4 times a day on average. Older files are archived for reference purpose and may never be accessed after a week. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 8:35:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nets5.rz.rwth-aachen.de (nets5.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9059737B69B for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from hyperion.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (hyperion.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.112.212]) by nets5.rz.rwth-aachen.de (8.10.1/8.10.1/6) with ESMTP id f15GYkL06837; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:34:46 +0100 (MET) Received: from agamemnon.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (agamemnon.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.194.74]) by hyperion.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1/2) with ESMTP id RAA10136; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:33:14 +0100 (MET) Received: (from stolz@localhost) by agamemnon.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1-gb-2) id RAA00236; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:34:44 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:34:44 +0100 From: Volker Stolz To: dan@langille.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ping over IPSEC works in only one direction Message-ID: <20010205173444.A229@agamemnon.informatik.rwth-aachen.de> References: <200102051239.f15CdGE09532@ns1.unixathome.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102051239.f15CdGE09532@ns1.unixathome.org> Organization: Chair for CS II 1/2, Anomalous Programming Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In local.freebsd-hackers, you wrote: >spdadd 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.101 any -P out ipsec esp/transport//use ah/transport//use; >spdadd 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.1 any -P out ipsec esp/transport//use ah/transport//use; I can see no corresponding "... any -P in" rules. Did you forget them only in the posting? If not, this is likely to be a source of confusion. -- \usepackage[latin1]{inputenc}! Volker Stolz * stolz@i2.informatik.rwth-aachen.de * PGP + S/MIME To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 8:45:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.internet.dk (ns.internet.dk [194.19.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 512F737B69E for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:45:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns.internet.dk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with UUCP id f15Gj2Y29698; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:45:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from leifn@neland.dk) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arnold.neland.dk (8.11.1/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f15Gibx44439; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:44:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from leifn@neland.dk) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:44:37 +0100 (CET) From: Leif Neland To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning In-Reply-To: <20010205092658.A97400@peorth.iteration.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Michael C . Wu wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > While talking to a friend about what his company is planning to do, > I found out that he is planning a 70TB filesystem/servers/cluster/db. > (Yes, seventy t-e-r-a-b-y-t-e...) > > Apparently, he has files that go up to 2gb each, and actually require > such a horribly sized cluster. > You later say some files may never be accessed after a week. How about a multi-level storage system, where the files eventually gets written onto dvd's. And either a robot or student :-) to put the requested disks online? Leif To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 8:48:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.ccmr.cornell.edu (mercury.ccmr.cornell.edu [128.84.231.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF5FA37B69F; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:48:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ruby.ccmr.cornell.edu (IDENT:0@ruby.ccmr.cornell.edu [128.84.231.115]) by mercury.ccmr.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15223; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:48:00 -0500 Received: from localhost (mitch@localhost) by ruby.ccmr.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06750; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:47:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ruby.ccmr.cornell.edu: mitch owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:47:58 -0500 (EST) From: Mitch Collinsworth To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning In-Reply-To: <20010205100016.C97400@peorth.iteration.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Michael C . Wu wrote: > On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 10:39:02AM -0500, Mitch Collinsworth scribbled: > | You didn't say what applications this thing is going to support. > | That does matter. A lot. One thing worth looking at is AFS, > | or maybe MR-AFS. And now OpenAFS. > > He has database(s) of graphics simulation results. i.e. large files that > are largely unrelated to each other. Compression is not an option. > > The files are accessed approximately 3 or 4 times a day on average. > Older files are archived for reference purpose and may never > be accessed after a week. Ok, this is a start. Now is the 70 TB the size of the active files? Or does that also include the older archived files that may never be accessed again? -Mitch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 9:24:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E85B37B65D; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:23:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3949A57611; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:24:20 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:24:20 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Mitch Collinsworth Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning Message-ID: <20010205112420.A98288@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" References: <20010205100016.C97400@peorth.iteration.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from mitch@ccmr.cornell.edu on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 11:47:58AM -0500 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 11:47:58AM -0500, Mitch Collinsworth scribbled: | On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Michael C . Wu wrote: | > On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 10:39:02AM -0500, Mitch Collinsworth scribbled: | > | You didn't say what applications this thing is going to support. | > | That does matter. A lot. One thing worth looking at is AFS, | > | or maybe MR-AFS. And now OpenAFS. | > | > He has database(s) of graphics simulation results. i.e. large files that | > are largely unrelated to each other. Compression is not an option. | > | > The files are accessed approximately 3 or 4 times a day on average. | > Older files are archived for reference purpose and may never | > be accessed after a week. | | Ok, this is a start. Now is the 70 TB the size of the active files? | Or does that also include the older archived files that may never be | accessed again? 70TB is the size of the sum of all files, access or no access. (They still want to maintain accessibility even though the chances are slim.) -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 9:35:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9CF3E37B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1735 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Feb 2001 17:33:19 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:33:19 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: make -f Makefile.bsd depend fails Message-ID: <20010205193319.B581@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm trying to write a cross-platform, cross-make compatible app. Thus, there is a Makefile.bsd and a Makefile.gnu, with Makefile being a symlink the user makes to the appropriate file. If Makefile points to Makefile.bsd, 'make depend' works fine. If, however, I invoke a make -f Makefile.bsd depend, and Makefile is a link to Makefile.gnu (uninterpretable by pmake): [roam@ringworld:v5 ~/c/misc/cstart]$ make -f Makefile.bsd depend rm -f .depend mkdep -f .depend -a -DEBUG -I. -I.. -I/usr/local/include -DHAVE_FREEBSD -DCS_ VER_MAJ=1 -DCS_VER_MIN=1 -DCS_VER_PRE=2 -DCS_VER_PATCH=0 -DCS_OS=\"FreeBSD\" -DC S_OSREL=\"4.2-STABLE\" -DCS_OSHOST=\"ringworld.oblivion.bg\" -D_GNU_SOURCE main .c cstart.c cs_err.c cd /usr/home/roam/lang/c/misc/cstart; make _EXTRADEPEND "Makefile", line 12: Missing dependency operator "Makefile", line 14: Need an operator "Makefile", line 15: Missing dependency operator "Makefile", line 17: Need an operator "Makefile", line 19: Need an operator "Makefile", line 20: Need an operator "Makefile", line 22: Need an operator "Makefile", line 25: Need an operator "Makefile", line 28: Need an operator make: fatal errors encountered -- cannot continue *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/home/roam/lang/c/misc/cstart. [roam@ringworld:v5 ~/c/misc/cstart]$ I tried fondling the privates of share/mk/bsd.dep.mk, but there appears to be something weird going on: in the depend target, ${MAKEFILE} is set to ".depend", so I cannot use this as a test whether there has been an -f option on the command line. It also seems that -f is not added to ${.MAKEFLAGS}. Ideas? G'luck, Peter -- If the meanings of 'true' and 'false' were switched, then this sentence wouldn't be false. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 9:51: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8410537B67D; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:50:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f15HoZ021657; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:50:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:50:35 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102051750.f15HoZ021657@earth.backplane.com> To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: Mitch Collinsworth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning References: <20010205100016.C97400@peorth.iteration.net> <20010205112420.A98288@peorth.iteration.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :| > The files are accessed approximately 3 or 4 times a day on average. :| > Older files are archived for reference purpose and may never :| > be accessed after a week. :| :| Ok, this is a start. Now is the 70 TB the size of the active files? :| Or does that also include the older archived files that may never be :| accessed again? :70TB is the size of the sum of all files, access or no access. :(They still want to maintain accessibility even though the chances are slim.) :-- :+------------------------------------------------------------------+ :| keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | :| http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | :+------------------------------------------------------------------+ This doesn't sound like something you can just throw together with off-the-shelf PCs and still have something reliable to show for it. You need a big honking RAID system - maybe a NetApp, maybe something else. You have to look at the filesystem and file size limitations of the unit and the client(s). FreeBSD can only support 1 TB sized filesystems. Our device layer converts everything to DEV_BSIZE'd (512) blocks, so to be safe: 2^31 x 512 bytes = 1 TB on Intel boxes. Our NFS implementation has the same per-filesystem limitation. Theoretically UFS/FFS are limited to 2^31 x blocksize, where blocksize can be larger (e.g. 16384 bytes, 65536 bytes), but I have grave doubts that that actually works.. I'm fairly certain that we still convert things to 512 byte block numbers at the device level, and we only use a 32 bit int to store the block number. So FreeBSD could be used as an NFS client, but probably not a server for your application. Considering the number of disks you need to manage, something like a NetApp or other completely self contained RAID-5-capable system for handling the disks is mandatory. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 9:51:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.ccmr.cornell.edu (mercury.ccmr.cornell.edu [128.84.231.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C141B37B684; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ruby.ccmr.cornell.edu (IDENT:0@ruby.ccmr.cornell.edu [128.84.231.115]) by mercury.ccmr.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17009; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:51:28 -0500 Received: from localhost (mitch@localhost) by ruby.ccmr.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06978; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:51:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: ruby.ccmr.cornell.edu: mitch owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:51:26 -0500 (EST) From: Mitch Collinsworth To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning In-Reply-To: <20010205112420.A98288@peorth.iteration.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Michael C . Wu wrote: > On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 11:47:58AM -0500, Mitch Collinsworth scribbled: > | On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Michael C . Wu wrote: > | > On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 10:39:02AM -0500, Mitch Collinsworth scribbled: > | > | You didn't say what applications this thing is going to support. > | > | That does matter. A lot. One thing worth looking at is AFS, > | > | or maybe MR-AFS. And now OpenAFS. > | > > | > He has database(s) of graphics simulation results. i.e. large files that > | > are largely unrelated to each other. Compression is not an option. > | > > | > The files are accessed approximately 3 or 4 times a day on average. > | > Older files are archived for reference purpose and may never > | > be accessed after a week. > | > | Ok, this is a start. Now is the 70 TB the size of the active files? > | Or does that also include the older archived files that may never be > | accessed again? > 70TB is the size of the sum of all files, access or no access. > (They still want to maintain accessibility even though the chances are slim.) Ok, well the next question to look at is how do they define "maintain accessibility". In other words what do they consider acceptable? Accessible in 5 seconds, accessible in 1 minute, accessible in 10 minutes, accessible in 1 hour, accessible overnight? 70 TB, as you have already noticed, is no simple feat to accomplish. No matter how you slice it it's going to cost $$. Different levels of accessibility requirement for the archived data can be accomplished with differing technologies and at differing costs. You could rough out a plan for keeping the whole thing online and spinning for instant access and then compare the costs of that with various options that keep the hot data online and archive the rest in varying ways that allow for differing speed of access. Maybe you can archive old data on CDs or tapes. Perhaps keep more recent archives "online" in a jukebox where they are fairly quickly accessible, while older archives are on a rack where someone has to retrieve them as needed. The real question here is: are they really willing to spend what it would take to keep an archive of this size spinning, including systems programmers and administrators? Or are they willing to spend less and have it take a bit longer to get access to the older data? -Mitch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 10:21:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from meketrex.pix.net (meketrex.pix.net [192.111.45.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08AA637B491; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:20:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by meketrex.pix.net id NAA00519; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:20:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20010205132042.A324@pix.net> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:20:42 -0500 From: "Kurt J. Lidl" To: Matt Dillon , "Michael C . Wu" Cc: Mitch Collinsworth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning References: <20010205100016.C97400@peorth.iteration.net> <20010205112420.A98288@peorth.iteration.net> <200102051750.f15HoZ021657@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 In-Reply-To: <200102051750.f15HoZ021657@earth.backplane.com>; from Matt Dillon on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 09:50:35AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 09:50:35AM -0800, Matt Dillon wrote: > :70TB is the size of the sum of all files, access or no access. > :(They still want to maintain accessibility even though the chances are slim.) > > This doesn't sound like something you can just throw together with > off-the-shelf PCs and still have something reliable to show for it. > You need a big honking RAID system - maybe a NetApp, maybe something > else. You have to look at the filesystem and file size limitations > of the unit and the client(s). NetApp's biggest box can "only" handle 6TB of data, currently, using the latest and greatest software. They claim (and I believe them) that 12TB will be the limit later this year. > So FreeBSD could be used as an NFS client, but probably not a server > for your application. Considering the number of disks you need to > manage, something like a NetApp or other completely self contained > RAID-5-capable system for handling the disks is mandatory. Netapps are actually RAID-4 (dedicated parity disk), not RAID-5 (parity data is recorded across all drives). -Kurt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 10:24:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cornelius.home.wwwi.com (adsl-63-199-171-171.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.199.171.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34B5337B401 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:23:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from polonius.wwwi.com (adsl-63-199-171-174.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.199.171.174]) by cornelius.home.wwwi.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f15INfh11680; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:23:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010205095728.020c0b00@cornelius.home.wwwi.com> X-Sender: jdw_list@cornelius.home.wwwi.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:24:01 -0800 To: mouss From: "Jeffrey D. Wheelhouse" Subject: Re: POSIX mutexes on FreeBSD Cc: "Jeffrey D. Wheelhouse" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4.3.0.20010205143317.05751cd0@pop.free.fr> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010202110620.0220cb98@pop.wwwi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 02:36 PM 2/5/2001 +0100, mouss wrote: >do you mean that the >"PTHREAD_PROCESS_SHARED", pthread_mutexattr_getpshared and the like do >not currently work? dunno if they were there before, but they are in >current. so you might want to check. _POSIX_THREAD_PROCESS_SHARED is still commented out in /usr/include/sys/unistd.h in -current, and I don't see implementations of these functions in /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread, so it appears at first glance that the state of -current is the same as -stable. This functionality does not appear to be implemented in either version. I don't actually run -current, so I can't say for sure. If I'm missing something, please let me know because it would save me a lot of trouble. My point was that the way it would be done seems to differ greatly between -stable and -current, based on the eventual availability of kernel mutexes to user processes. I don't know how far away the glorious future is, so I was wondering if it would be worthwhile for me to do a stopgap implementation in the mean time. If no one has ever noticed that the functionality was missing, the answer may well be "no." Jeff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 10:29:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9053837B401; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:29:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f15ITYY22891; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:29:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:29:34 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102051829.f15ITYY22891@earth.backplane.com> To: "Michael C . Wu" , Mitch Collinsworth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning References: <20010205100016.C97400@peorth.iteration.net> <20010205112420.A98288@peorth.iteration.net> <200102051750.f15HoZ021657@earth.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : 2^31 x 512 bytes = 1 TB on Intel boxes. Our NFS implementation has the : same per-filesystem limitation. Theoretically UFS/FFS are limited Oops. I meant, per-file limitation for NFS clients, not per-filesystem. 1TB per file. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 11:15:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from uberhacker.org (uberhacker.org [204.210.12.243]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4FE8837B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:15:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 73469 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Feb 2001 19:15:06 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:15:06 -0800 From: "Paul D. Schmidt" To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: known pthread bug? Message-ID: <20010205111506.A73450@uberhacker.org> References: <20010204232301.C30977@uberhacker.org> <20010205005937.M26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010205005937.M26076@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 12:59:37AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 12:59:37AM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Paul D. Schmidt [010204 23:23] wrote: > > Are there currently any known bugs with pthread_mutex_init > > and pthread_cond_init returning 0, but pthread_cond_wait > > returning EINVAL nonetheless? > > Can you provide a code sample to replicate this and specify which > version of FreeBSD you're using? typedef struct cond_tag { long cond_id; char *name; pthread_mutex_t cond_mutex; pthread_cond_t sys_cond; } cond_t; void thread_cond_create(cond_t *cond) { pthread_cond_init(&cond->sys_cond, NULL); pthread_mutex_init(&cond->cond_mutex, NULL); } void thread_cond_wait(cond_t *cond) { pthread_cond_wait(&cond->sys_cond, &cond->cond_mutex); } pthread_cond_wait() is returning immediately with EINVAL, even though printf debugging tells me that both the pthread_(cond|mutex)_init functions returned 0 (which man tells me is success). This is on FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE. -Paul -- Paul D. Schmidt | Coder / Sys Admin | Unbound Communications | http://www.unboundcom.com "The grass may actually be greener on the other side of the fence, but it still has to be mowed." --Anonymous To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 11:31:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16F1E37B684 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:30:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f15JUtq07106; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:30:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:30:55 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Paul D. Schmidt" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: known pthread bug? Message-ID: <20010205113055.T26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20010204232301.C30977@uberhacker.org> <20010205005937.M26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <20010205111506.A73450@uberhacker.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010205111506.A73450@uberhacker.org>; from pds@uberhacker.org on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 11:15:06AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Paul D. Schmidt [010205 11:15] wrote: > On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 12:59:37AM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > * Paul D. Schmidt [010204 23:23] wrote: > > > > Are there currently any known bugs with pthread_mutex_init > > > and pthread_cond_init returning 0, but pthread_cond_wait > > > returning EINVAL nonetheless? > > > > Can you provide a code sample to replicate this and specify which > > version of FreeBSD you're using? > > typedef struct cond_tag { > long cond_id; > char *name; > > pthread_mutex_t cond_mutex; > pthread_cond_t sys_cond; > } cond_t; > > void thread_cond_create(cond_t *cond) > { > pthread_cond_init(&cond->sys_cond, NULL); > pthread_mutex_init(&cond->cond_mutex, NULL); > } > > void thread_cond_wait(cond_t *cond) > { > pthread_cond_wait(&cond->sys_cond, &cond->cond_mutex); > } > > pthread_cond_wait() is returning immediately with EINVAL, even though > printf debugging tells me that both the pthread_(cond|mutex)_init > functions returned 0 (which man tells me is success). > > This is on FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE. 1) 4.2 RELEASE has known pthreads bugs, you should upgrade to -stable. 2) is cond->cond_mutex held when thread_cond_wait() is called? if not I'm pretty sure it needs to be. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 12: 8:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A31037B401 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 871 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Feb 2001 20:06:05 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 22:06:04 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: Zhiui Zhang Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No-passwd account and reboot records Message-ID: <20010205220603.A353@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Zhiui Zhang , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu on Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 09:18:23PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 09:18:23PM -0500, Zhiui Zhang wrote: > > Is it possible to create a no-password account? Is it possible to record > in a file the times of each reboots? If so, how to do this? Thanks. What is it that you need no-password accounts for? If it is for remotely executed commands, consider SSH identity files - they're just as easy to generate without a password, *but* they have the added benefit that a empty-password identity may be restricted to only executing certain commands, so it cannot be abused for break-ins or similar. G'luck, Peter -- This would easier understand fewer had omitted. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 12:51:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (mass.dis.org [216.240.45.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6398537B491; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f15KqOe00985; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:52:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200102052052.f15KqOe00985@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Matt Dillon Cc: "Michael C . Wu" , Mitch Collinsworth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Feb 2001 09:50:35 PST." <200102051750.f15HoZ021657@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:52:24 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > :| > The files are accessed approximately 3 or 4 times a day on average. > :| > Older files are archived for reference purpose and may never > :| > be accessed after a week. > :| > :| Ok, this is a start. Now is the 70 TB the size of the active files? > :| Or does that also include the older archived files that may never be > :| accessed again? > :70TB is the size of the sum of all files, access or no access. > :(They still want to maintain accessibility even though the chances are slim.) ... > This doesn't sound like something you can just throw together with > off-the-shelf PCs and still have something reliable to show for it. > You need a big honking RAID system - maybe a NetApp, maybe something > else. You have to look at the filesystem and file size limitations > of the unit and the client(s). You can't do this with a NetApp either; they max out at about 6TB now (going up to around 12 or so soon). You might want to talk to EMC and/or IBM, both of whom have *extremely* large filers. Your friend may also want to look at Traakan, who have a novel product in this space. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 12:59:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bdr-xcon.matchlogic.com (mail.matchlogic.com [205.216.147.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EFA937B401; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:58:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.matchlogic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:58:24 -0700 Message-ID: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F50@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com> From: Charles Randall To: "Michael C . Wu" , 'Mike Smith' , Matt Dillon Cc: Mitch Collinsworth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:58:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does this have to be a single filesystem? If not, just provide a database front-end that maps some kind of resource identifier to the filesystem name. With that, you can span filers and/or filesystems. Seems like the only thing that would be reasonable. Charles -----Original Message----- From: Mike Smith [mailto:msmith@freebsd.org] Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 1:52 PM To: Matt Dillon Cc: Michael C . Wu; Mitch Collinsworth; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning > > :| > The files are accessed approximately 3 or 4 times a day on average. > :| > Older files are archived for reference purpose and may never > :| > be accessed after a week. > :| > :| Ok, this is a start. Now is the 70 TB the size of the active files? > :| Or does that also include the older archived files that may never be > :| accessed again? > :70TB is the size of the sum of all files, access or no access. > :(They still want to maintain accessibility even though the chances are slim.) ... > This doesn't sound like something you can just throw together with > off-the-shelf PCs and still have something reliable to show for it. > You need a big honking RAID system - maybe a NetApp, maybe something > else. You have to look at the filesystem and file size limitations > of the unit and the client(s). You can't do this with a NetApp either; they max out at about 6TB now (going up to around 12 or so soon). You might want to talk to EMC and/or IBM, both of whom have *extremely* large filers. Your friend may also want to look at Traakan, who have a novel product in this space. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 13: 4:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F0B7D37B4EC for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:04:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1981 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Feb 2001 21:03:39 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 21:03:39 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:03:39 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-question@freebsd.org Subject: qmail IO problems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am sitting with a 80-90% IO disk problem after converting this one box from linux to freebsd. I enabled soft-updates on that partition...that did not help to much...and ram is fine. I am guessing because ext2fs uses asyncronous metadatawrites and favors speed over reliablity that that is why linux was able to handle it. Anyone ever run into this problem with qmail before? Currently queue just keeps getting filled up with very few being sent. -- Dan +------------------------------------------------------+ | BRAVENET WEB SERVICES | | dan@bravenet.com | | make installworld | | ln -s /var/qmail/bin/sendmail /usr/sbin/sendmail | | ln -s /var/qmail/bin/newaliases /usr/sbin/newaliases | +______________________________________________________+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 13:27:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [64.0.106.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635F837B401; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:27:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27370; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:27:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:27:21 -0500 (EST) From: To: Dan Phoenix Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Dan Phoenix wrote: > > I am sitting with a 80-90% IO disk problem after converting this one box > from linux to freebsd. I enabled soft-updates on that partition...that did > not help to much...and ram is fine. I am guessing because ext2fs uses > asyncronous metadatawrites and favors speed over reliablity that that is > why linux was able to handle it. Hi dan. Just out of curiosity what leads you to think its I/O? Is this sending or receiving? You say its on one partition? Is the mail spool directory hashed? How many mail's are you doing a second? How many mails WERE you doing a second on linux? A little more insight into how things are configured would help a bit. :-) I bet brad will see this too and he will surely know the right direction to point you. I run mostly postfix here. Since it has lower overhead writing mail. If your queue is being filled up because qmail isnt processing them fast enough that mostly sounds just like a configuration problem. But again I dont know what your traffic is like. If its something small or something crazy. ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! ICQ: 20016186 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 13:50: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 076B837B401 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 32354 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Feb 2001 21:49:10 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 21:49:10 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:49:09 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: scanner@jurai.net Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG /0 /1 /2 /3 /4 /5 /6 /7 /8 /9 /10 Load Average |||| /0 /10 /20 /30 /40 /50 /60 /70 /80 /90 /100 cpu user|X nice| system|XXXXXX interrupt| idle|XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX /0 /10 /20 /30 /40 /50 /60 /70 /80 /90 /100 ad0 MB/s tps|XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX108.83 that is why i know it is IO....#1. #2..not configuration errors that I know of. tailing the tcpserver current log shows lots of traffic comming in and out.....yet it keep getting queued up......so my guess is the IO. Post fix is not the solution...would be the exact same problem...a mail deamon was to read each message to send them right? Same disk I/O problem will occur. Btw who are you and when you say brad....who are you talking about? On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 scanner@jurai.net wrote: > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:27:21 -0500 (EST) > From: scanner@jurai.net > To: Dan Phoenix > Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: qmail IO problems > > On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Dan Phoenix wrote: > > > > > I am sitting with a 80-90% IO disk problem after converting this one box > > from linux to freebsd. I enabled soft-updates on that partition...that did > > not help to much...and ram is fine. I am guessing because ext2fs uses > > asyncronous metadatawrites and favors speed over reliablity that that is > > why linux was able to handle it. > > Hi dan. Just out of curiosity what leads you to think its I/O? > Is this sending or receiving? You say its on one partition? Is the mail > spool directory hashed? How many mail's are you doing a second? How many > mails WERE you doing a second on linux? A little more insight into how > things are configured would help a bit. :-) I bet brad will see > this too and he will surely know the right direction to point you. > I run mostly postfix here. Since it has lower overhead writing mail. > > If your queue is being filled up because qmail isnt processing > them fast enough that mostly sounds just like a configuration problem. > But again I dont know what your traffic is like. If its something small or > something crazy. > > ============================================================================= > -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek > Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas > Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net > ============================================================================= > WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" > LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?" > BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" > ============================================================================= > irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! > ICQ: 20016186 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 13:55:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41FAB37B491; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:55:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f15Lt3P12354; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:55:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:55:01 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dan Phoenix Cc: scanner@jurai.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems Message-ID: <20010205135501.H26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dphoenix@bravenet.com on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 01:49:09PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Dan Phoenix [010205 13:50] wrote: > /0 /1 /2 /3 /4 /5 /6 /7 /8 /9 /10 > Load Average |||| > > /0 /10 /20 /30 /40 /50 /60 /70 /80 /90 /100 > cpu user|X > nice| > system|XXXXXX > interrupt| > idle|XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX > > /0 /10 /20 /30 /40 /50 /60 /70 /80 /90 /100 > ad0 MB/s > tps|XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX108.83 > > > that is why i know it is IO....#1. > #2..not configuration errors that I know of. > tailing the tcpserver current log shows lots of traffic comming in and > out.....yet it keep getting queued up......so my guess is the IO. > Post fix is not the solution...would be the exact same problem...a mail > deamon was to read each message to send them right? Same disk I/O problem > will occur. Btw who are you and when you say brad....who are you talking > about? Here's a couple of tunables you might want to try, use then one at a time and see if it improves things: vfs.vmiodirenable = 1 vfs.write_behind = 0 or 2 (default is 1) You might also want to consider a more robust disk subsystem, using a single IDE non-redundant disk for storing mail isn't such a hot idea. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 13:56:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcnet1.pcnet.com (pcnet1.pcnet.com [204.213.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D952F37B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:56:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from eischen@localhost) by pcnet1.pcnet.com (8.8.7/PCNet) id QAA09441; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:55:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:55:36 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: "Paul D. Schmidt" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: known pthread bug? In-Reply-To: <20010205113055.T26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Paul D. Schmidt [010205 11:15] wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 12:59:37AM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > * Paul D. Schmidt [010204 23:23] wrote: > > > > > > Are there currently any known bugs with pthread_mutex_init > > > > and pthread_cond_init returning 0, but pthread_cond_wait > > > > returning EINVAL nonetheless? > > > > > > Can you provide a code sample to replicate this and specify which > > > version of FreeBSD you're using? > > > > typedef struct cond_tag { > > long cond_id; > > char *name; > > > > pthread_mutex_t cond_mutex; > > pthread_cond_t sys_cond; > > } cond_t; > > > > void thread_cond_create(cond_t *cond) > > { > > pthread_cond_init(&cond->sys_cond, NULL); > > pthread_mutex_init(&cond->cond_mutex, NULL); > > } > > > > void thread_cond_wait(cond_t *cond) > > { > > pthread_cond_wait(&cond->sys_cond, &cond->cond_mutex); > > } > > > > pthread_cond_wait() is returning immediately with EINVAL, even though > > printf debugging tells me that both the pthread_(cond|mutex)_init > > functions returned 0 (which man tells me is success). > > > > This is on FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE. > > 1) 4.2 RELEASE has known pthreads bugs, you should upgrade to -stable. > 2) is cond->cond_mutex held when thread_cond_wait() is called? if not > I'm pretty sure it needs to be. Correct. You must call pthread_cond_wait() with the mutex locked (as specified by POSIX). The whole point of pthread_cond_wait() is to atomically unlock the mutex and wait for an event. If the mutex isn't locked, EINVAL is returned. -- Dan Eischen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 14: 6: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 35BF837B401 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22500 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Feb 2001 22:05:01 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 22:05:01 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:05:01 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: scanner@jurai.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: <20010205135501.H26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just tried both parameters....nada. I am desperately trying to work out a solution here...because this machine will be forced back to linux of i can;t find a way to improve the disk I/O. Checking on qmail queue patches maybe? Far as I know there is a big-to do patch on qmail's homesite....not sure if that will help but worth a shot...definately not looking forward to seeing linux again! On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:55:01 -0800 > From: Alfred Perlstein > To: Dan Phoenix > Cc: scanner@jurai.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, > freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: qmail IO problems > > * Dan Phoenix [010205 13:50] wrote: > > /0 /1 /2 /3 /4 /5 /6 /7 /8 /9 /10 > > Load Average |||| > > > > /0 /10 /20 /30 /40 /50 /60 /70 /80 /90 /100 > > cpu user|X > > nice| > > system|XXXXXX > > interrupt| > > idle|XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX > > > > /0 /10 /20 /30 /40 /50 /60 /70 /80 /90 /100 > > ad0 MB/s > > tps|XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX108.83 > > > > > > that is why i know it is IO....#1. > > #2..not configuration errors that I know of. > > tailing the tcpserver current log shows lots of traffic comming in and > > out.....yet it keep getting queued up......so my guess is the IO. > > Post fix is not the solution...would be the exact same problem...a mail > > deamon was to read each message to send them right? Same disk I/O problem > > will occur. Btw who are you and when you say brad....who are you talking > > about? > > Here's a couple of tunables you might want to try, use then one at a > time and see if it improves things: > > vfs.vmiodirenable = 1 > vfs.write_behind = 0 or 2 (default is 1) > > You might also want to consider a more robust disk subsystem, using > a single IDE non-redundant disk for storing mail isn't such a hot > idea. > > -- > -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] > "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 14:12:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E08E37B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:12:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 23628 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Feb 2001 22:12:00 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 22:12:00 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:12:00 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: scanner@jurai.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: <20010205135501.H26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actually another point i should bring up is there are 4 separate perl scripts that basically grab users from a mysql database.... their mail message is taken and piped to...sendmail -t which is a symbolic link to /var/qmail/bin/sendmail -t ...someone told me about a concept of "herding the queue" doing it that fashion....I am quite interested if there is a more effective way of doing mail with qmail and perl...maybe the way ezmlm does it so quickly. But the I/O problem is still there without perl scripts running from all 30 internal fbsd webservers. On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:55:01 -0800 > From: Alfred Perlstein > To: Dan Phoenix > Cc: scanner@jurai.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, > freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: qmail IO problems > > * Dan Phoenix [010205 13:50] wrote: > > /0 /1 /2 /3 /4 /5 /6 /7 /8 /9 /10 > > Load Average |||| > > > > /0 /10 /20 /30 /40 /50 /60 /70 /80 /90 /100 > > cpu user|X > > nice| > > system|XXXXXX > > interrupt| > > idle|XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX > > > > /0 /10 /20 /30 /40 /50 /60 /70 /80 /90 /100 > > ad0 MB/s > > tps|XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX108.83 > > > > > > that is why i know it is IO....#1. > > #2..not configuration errors that I know of. > > tailing the tcpserver current log shows lots of traffic comming in and > > out.....yet it keep getting queued up......so my guess is the IO. > > Post fix is not the solution...would be the exact same problem...a mail > > deamon was to read each message to send them right? Same disk I/O problem > > will occur. Btw who are you and when you say brad....who are you talking > > about? > > Here's a couple of tunables you might want to try, use then one at a > time and see if it improves things: > > vfs.vmiodirenable = 1 > vfs.write_behind = 0 or 2 (default is 1) > > You might also want to consider a more robust disk subsystem, using > a single IDE non-redundant disk for storing mail isn't such a hot > idea. > > -- > -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] > "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 14:22:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 349F337B401; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:22:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f15MMIj13403; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:22:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:22:18 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dan Phoenix Cc: scanner@jurai.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems Message-ID: <20010205142218.I26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20010205135501.H26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dphoenix@bravenet.com on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 02:05:01PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Dan Phoenix [010205 14:05] wrote: > > > Just tried both parameters....nada. > I am desperately trying to work out a solution here...because this machine > will be forced back to linux of i can;t find a way to improve the disk > I/O. Checking on qmail queue patches maybe? Far as I know there is a > big-to do patch on qmail's homesite....not sure if that will help but > worth a shot...definately not looking forward to seeing linux again! What happens when you run the fs in completely async mode? What is the output of your 'mount' command? How long did you run with those sysctl options? Your reply came very quickly, so I'm assuming not very long. Are you absolutely sure there's no configuration difference between when it was Linux and now that it's FreeBSD? Hardware _and_ software config (qmail) wise? Is btw, is this mail being queued up to be sent? Or is it mail being queued up for sending? Are you sure nothing went crazy during the changeover such that the load is now a lot higher? Such as: Are you sure your backup MX is not killing you trying to deliver all the queued mail it got while the main MX was down? Also, the disk isn't at 80-95%, those are transactions per-second. So unless you're actually seeing a performance problem, then you don't need to worry although that many tps is pretty high. Also, please don't post to -hackers and -questions. A question should be sent to either, not both. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 14:23:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from karon.dynas.se (karon.dynas.se [192.71.43.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7163437B401 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:23:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 62862 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 22:23:29 -0000 Received: from spirit.sto.dynas.se (HELO spirit.dynas.se) (172.16.1.10) by 172.16.1.1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 22:23:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 7332 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 22:23:28 -0000 Received: from explorer.rsa.com (10.81.217.59) by spirit.dynas.se with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 22:23:28 -0000 Received: (from mikko@localhost) by explorer.rsa.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f15MNMI77338; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:23:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mikko) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:23:22 -0800 (PST) From: Mikko Tyolajarvi Message-Id: <200102052223.f15MNMI77338@explorer.rsa.com> To: pds@uberhacker.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: known pthread bug? Newsgroups: local.freebsd.hackers References: <20010205005937.M26076@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 12:59:37AM -0800 <20010205111506.A73450@uberhacker.org> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In local.freebsd.hackers you write: >On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 12:59:37AM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >> * Paul D. Schmidt [010204 23:23] wrote: >> > Are there currently any known bugs with pthread_mutex_init >> > and pthread_cond_init returning 0, but pthread_cond_wait >> > returning EINVAL nonetheless? >> >> Can you provide a code sample to replicate this and specify which >> version of FreeBSD you're using? >typedef struct cond_tag { > long cond_id; > char *name; > > pthread_mutex_t cond_mutex; > pthread_cond_t sys_cond; >} cond_t; > >void thread_cond_create(cond_t *cond) >{ > pthread_cond_init(&cond->sys_cond, NULL); > pthread_mutex_init(&cond->cond_mutex, NULL); >} > >void thread_cond_wait(cond_t *cond) >{ > pthread_cond_wait(&cond->sys_cond, &cond->cond_mutex); >} >pthread_cond_wait() is returning immediately with EINVAL, even though >printf debugging tells me that both the pthread_(cond|mutex)_init >functions returned 0 (which man tells me is success). This is not a self-contained, runnable example, but if you just call the functions in this order, you will not have not locked the cond_mutex when you read pthread_cond_wait(), which is wrong, since pthread_cond_wait() is supposed to unblock the mutex. $.02, /Mikko -- Mikko Työläjärvi_______________________________________mikko@rsasecurity.com RSA Security To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 14:28:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D18B637B4EC for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:27:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 17523 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Feb 2001 22:27:31 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 22:27:31 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:27:31 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: scanner@jurai.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: <20010205142218.I26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Going to try the async mount without softupdates on /usr ...where /var/qmail is a symbolic link to /usr...otherwise i run out of inodes from lack of space in /var. So I will go ahead with async and the todo patch from the previous email someone kindly sent about qmail....see how much performance I can get. I'll keep you informed. On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:22:18 -0800 > From: Alfred Perlstein > To: Dan Phoenix > Cc: scanner@jurai.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, > freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: qmail IO problems > > * Dan Phoenix [010205 14:05] wrote: > > > > > > Just tried both parameters....nada. > > I am desperately trying to work out a solution here...because this machine > > will be forced back to linux of i can;t find a way to improve the disk > > I/O. Checking on qmail queue patches maybe? Far as I know there is a > > big-to do patch on qmail's homesite....not sure if that will help but > > worth a shot...definately not looking forward to seeing linux again! > > What happens when you run the fs in completely async mode? > > What is the output of your 'mount' command? > > How long did you run with those sysctl options? Your reply came > very quickly, so I'm assuming not very long. > > Are you absolutely sure there's no configuration difference between > when it was Linux and now that it's FreeBSD? Hardware _and_ software > config (qmail) wise? > > Is btw, is this mail being queued up to be sent? Or is it mail > being queued up for sending? > > Are you sure nothing went crazy during the changeover such > that the load is now a lot higher? > > Such as: Are you sure your backup MX is not killing you trying to > deliver all the queued mail it got while the main MX was down? > > Also, the disk isn't at 80-95%, those are transactions per-second. > So unless you're actually seeing a performance problem, then you > don't need to worry although that many tps is pretty high. > > Also, please don't post to -hackers and -questions. A question > should be sent to either, not both. > > -- > -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] > "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 14:50:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [64.0.106.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AABB937B65D; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:50:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29197; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:49:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:49:56 -0500 (EST) From: scanner@jurai.net To: Dan Phoenix Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-question@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > /0 /10 /20 /30 /40 /50 /60 /70 /80 /90 /100 > ad0 MB/s > tps|XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX108.83 > that is why i know it is IO....#1. Ok there is your first problem. Using a single IDE disk as your mail store is fine if your in a small lan. But your obviously beating the living tar out of it. Upgrade to SCSI or at least add more disks and vinum them together. > #2..not configuration errors that I know of. Hmm. > tailing the tcpserver current log shows lots of traffic comming in and > out.....yet it keep getting queued up......so my guess is the IO. Again are you using hashed directories? If so what depth? > Post fix is not the solution...would be the exact same problem...a mail > deamon was to read each message to send them right? Same disk I/O problem Actually wrong. Qmail writes 3 files for each mail, Postfix writes one. Do the math. Thats a 300% overhead compared to Postfix. > will occur. Btw who are you and when you say brad....who are you talking > about? I am someone trying to help you. And im referring to brad knowles. He is a pretty big mail guy. How many mails WERE you doing on linux? How many are you doing now? I can completely understand your I/O bottle neck using a single IDE disk. What kind of load are you doing? how much traffic. You might not even be able to do anything except add more I/O. And my guess is if Linux didnt have this problem then it's obvious to me anyway that FreeBSD is handling alot more mail in and out then linux was and is therefore taxing your single IDE mail storage. But again with out #'s of how many mails you were doing on linux and how many your doing now it's all theory. ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! ICQ: 20016186 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 14:59:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6FABF37B698 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 24481 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Feb 2001 22:52:14 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:52:14 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: make -f Makefile.bsd depend fails Message-ID: <20010206005213.D17885@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <20010205193319.B581@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010205193319.B581@ringworld.oblivion.bg>; from roam@orbitel.bg on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 07:33:19PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just to let people know, Jeremy Norris came up with a nice reminder that gmake looks for GNUmakefile before makefile before Makefile, so I can now leave my pmake Makefile with its real name. Problem at hand solved; still wondering about how the generic bsd.dep.mk situation could be improved though :) G'luck, Peter -- Do you think anybody has ever had *precisely this thought* before? On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 07:33:19PM +0200, Peter Pentchev wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to write a cross-platform, cross-make compatible app. > Thus, there is a Makefile.bsd and a Makefile.gnu, with Makefile > being a symlink the user makes to the appropriate file. > > If Makefile points to Makefile.bsd, 'make depend' works fine. > If, however, I invoke a make -f Makefile.bsd depend, and > Makefile is a link to Makefile.gnu (uninterpretable by pmake): [snip make errors output] > I tried fondling the privates of share/mk/bsd.dep.mk, but there appears > to be something weird going on: in the depend target, ${MAKEFILE} is > set to ".depend", so I cannot use this as a test whether there has been > an -f option on the command line. It also seems that -f is not added > to ${.MAKEFLAGS}. > > Ideas? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 15:12:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from postal.sdsc.edu (postal.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A24B37B4EC for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:11:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from multivac.sdsc.edu (multivac.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.57]) by postal.sdsc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/SDSCserver-16) with ESMTP id PAA13360; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:11:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by multivac (8.9.3+Sun/1.11-SolarisClient) with ESMTP id PAA24722; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:11:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:11:58 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Luckie To: Cc: Subject: syscall kernel modules on 3.0-release Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi I have written a KLD module that implements a syscall I wrote this module on 3.2-release, although this module is going to be used on a 3.0-release machine The relevant support for writing a syscall module was added after 3.0-release and is present in 3.1-release according to http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys/sys/sysent.h.diff?r1=1.19&r2=1.20 Is it possible for me to hack my kernel module to work on freebsd 3.0-release? I have tried patching the sys/sysent.h file with the patch linked above and the module compiles perfectly, although when I kldload'd the module the system crashed and rebooted. I didnt see the crash message, although I can get that if it will help. So my question is, is it possible for me to hack my kernel module to work on FreeBSD 3.0-release? If not, can isolated patches be made to the kernel short of doing a cvsup for src-all to enable this to work? Matthew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 16:30: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from w250.z064001178.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net (w250.z064001178.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [64.1.178.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2685D37B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 50446 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Feb 2001 00:30:00 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:29:38 -0800 From: Jos Backus To: Dan Phoenix Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems Message-ID: <20010205162938.A50388@lizzy.bugworks.com> Reply-To: Jos Backus Mail-Followup-To: Dan Phoenix , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010205135501.H26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dphoenix@bravenet.com on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 02:11:38PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 02:11:38PM -0800, Dan Phoenix wrote: > their mail message is taken and piped to...sendmail -t > which is a symbolic link to /var/qmail/bin/sendmail -t You can save an exec by piping directly into qmail-inject, which should have the same effect (qmail's sendmail execv's qmail-inject; it sounds like you don't need the compatibility interface). -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Modularity is not a hack." _/ _/ _/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ josb@cncdsl.com _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 16:35: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC8C37B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:34:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f160FcE13503; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:15:38 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200102060015.f160FcE13503@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: Volker Stolz Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:34:32 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: ping over IPSEC works in only one direction Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <20010205173444.A229@agamemnon.informatik.rwth-aachen.de> References: <200102051239.f15CdGE09532@ns1.unixathome.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 5 Feb 2001, at 17:34, Volker Stolz wrote: > In local.freebsd-hackers, you wrote: > >spdadd 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.101 any -P out ipsec esp/transport//use ah/transport//use; > >spdadd 192.168.1.101 192.168.1.1 any -P out ipsec esp/transport//use ah/transport//use; > > I can see no corresponding "... any -P in" rules. Did you forget them only > in the posting? If not, this is likely to be a source of confusion. Thanks. That was the problem. I've been able to get most things working. However, when I involve NAT some things break. I'm not using AH, just ESP. I can get ESP working without NAT and have http, ping, going. No problems. But if I try from an external box, involving NAT, ping works, but not http. Not sure why. A tcpdump shows the incoming ESP requests, but nothing going back out. I'm positive I have the keys correct as ping works and tcpdump shows incoming ping request and outgoing ping replies. Quite odd. -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 16:50:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F319237B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:50:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f160oNU18155; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:50:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:50:23 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Jos Backus Cc: Dan Phoenix , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems Message-ID: <20010205165023.L26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20010205135501.H26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <20010205162938.A50388@lizzy.bugworks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010205162938.A50388@lizzy.bugworks.com>; from josb@cncdsl.com on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 04:29:38PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Jos Backus [010205 16:30] wrote: > On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 02:11:38PM -0800, Dan Phoenix wrote: > > their mail message is taken and piped to...sendmail -t > > which is a symbolic link to /var/qmail/bin/sendmail -t > > You can save an exec by piping directly into qmail-inject, which should have > the same effect (qmail's sendmail execv's qmail-inject; it sounds like you > don't need the compatibility interface). You could also do some tricky stuff if qmail has a constant reading scheme by using some sort of FIFO and a file that you fcntl lock over. You could have a simple perl script listening on the other end of the perl script and dole out email to several persistant processes. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 17: 2: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E624B37B69D for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:01:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f1611Zu55025; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:01:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:01:35 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102060101.f1611Zu55025@earth.backplane.com> To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Jos Backus , Dan Phoenix , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems References: <20010205135501.H26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <20010205162938.A50388@lizzy.bugworks.com> <20010205165023.L26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I think before you guys go off wandering you need some definitive information on the rate of incomming and outgoing mail, number of simultanious connections being handled, and so forth. On the face of it, high disk transaction rates, low transfer rates, and idle cpu implies either lots of paging I/O or softupdates isn't actually turned on. Lots of paging I/O implies, potentially, lots of connections. So you need a couple of stats in-hand to figure out what is going on: * How many mail-related processes are running, and by inference how many simultanious connections are being handled?. 'ps axlww' while the heavy I/O is going on would help a lot here. * Is the sytem paging? 'systat -vm 1' will give you a good indication. * 'vmstat 1' output also helps If the system is running too many processes then some messing around with qmail's configuration options should solve the problem. Also, nowhere did I read how much memory this machine had. This will give us useful information on that front: * cat /var/run/dmesg.boot (And, for gods sake, DON'T screw around with sysctl vfs.write_behind! I should probably just rip that sysctl out. The default heuristic handles all the cases already). -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 17: 5:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B64337B69F for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:05:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 8791 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Feb 2001 01:04:55 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 01:04:55 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:04:55 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: <20010205165023.L26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It just seems to me at this point there are only 2 solutions for an immediate solution...keep freebsd and go with postfix or go back to linux and qmail. If postfix is as good as everyone has been bragging about ...I should be alright. I'll revisit the perl script another day on another box with same problems......freebsd just cannot support qmail it seems with a single ide drive...simple as that. Guess question is how long it will take me to learn postfix inside out.... well off to the books. On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:50:23 -0800 > From: Alfred Perlstein > To: Jos Backus > Cc: Dan Phoenix , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: qmail IO problems > > * Jos Backus [010205 16:30] wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 02:11:38PM -0800, Dan Phoenix wrote: > > > their mail message is taken and piped to...sendmail -t > > > which is a symbolic link to /var/qmail/bin/sendmail -t > > > > You can save an exec by piping directly into qmail-inject, which should have > > the same effect (qmail's sendmail execv's qmail-inject; it sounds like you > > don't need the compatibility interface). > > You could also do some tricky stuff if qmail has a constant reading > scheme by using some sort of FIFO and a file that you fcntl lock > over. > > You could have a simple perl script listening on the other end of > the perl script and dole out email to several persistant processes. > > -- > -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] > "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 17:15: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E56837B6A2 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:14:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f161E3299382; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:14:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@wall.polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.11.1/8.11.0) id f161E2x05451; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:14:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:14:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200102060114.f161E2x05451@vashon.polstra.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org From: John Polstra Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: mcgovern@spoon.beta.com Subject: Re: exit() does not do dlclose()? In-Reply-To: <200102050010.f150Ab809972@spoon.beta.com> References: <200102050010.f150Ab809972@spoon.beta.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <200102050010.f150Ab809972@spoon.beta.com>, Brian McGovern wrote: > Let me see if I can create a 'simple' case that causes > it. Otherwise, if you want a more complex example that requires > a specific enviornment to demonstrate it, I'll send you my > code-in-progress. No, I wish I had time for that, but I don't. Another option for you would be to build src/libexec/rtld-elf with -g and try to debug it yourself using gdb. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Disappointment is a good sign of basic intelligence." -- Chögyam Trungpa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 17:22: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6236937B6AA for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 16280 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Feb 2001 01:21:11 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 01:21:11 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:21:11 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Matt Dillon Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: <200102060101.f1611Zu55025@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mem:KB REAL VIRTUAL VN PAGER SWAP PAGER Tot Share Tot Share Free in out in out Act 107324 2124 113016 2584 12436 count All 252644 2220 3105952 2744 pages Interrupts Proc:r p d s w Csw Trp Sys Int Sof Flt 71 cow 414 total 6 19 1404 519 4212 415 668 422 37652 wire mux irq11 116916 act 83 mux irq10 13.8%Sys 0.0%Intr 3.1%User 0.0%Nice 83.1%Idl 86824 inact 103 ata0 irq14 | | | | | | | | | | 11252 cache ata1 irq15 =======> 1184 free fdc0 irq6 daefr atkbd0 irq Namei Name-cache Dir-cache 264 prcfr ppc0 irq7 Calls hits % hits % react 100 clk irq0 1183 989 84 18 2 pdwak 128 rtc irq8 188 zfod pdpgs Disks ad0 acd0 fd0 md0 150 ofod intrn KB/t 3.98 0.00 0.00 0.00 79 %slo-z 35744 buf tps 100 0 0 0 462 tfree 341 dirtybuf MB/s 0.39 0.00 0.00 0.00 16396 desiredvnodes % busy 93 0 0 0 24878 numvnodes 5801 freevnodes soft updates are not on at this point....did not help anyways. async mount was enabled on /usr to try and help it. Mem: 114M Active, 88M Inact, 35M Wired, 10M Cache, 35M Buf, 1212K Free this is first machine....as you can see alot of memory still left over. from another machine...same problem....this one queue keeps getting filled higher and higher... 7 users Load 0.07 0.13 0.15 Mon Feb 5 17:18 Mem:KB REAL VIRTUAL VN PAGER SWAP PAGER Tot Share Tot Share Free in out in out Act 48232 1904 55248 2184 75220 count All 179476 3316 3387352 4332 pages Interrupts Proc:r p d s w Csw Trp Sys Int Sof Flt cow 530 total 1 7 17 209 60 1504 530 89 10 55112 wire mux irq11 75484 act 89 mux irq10 1.5%Sys 1.5%Intr 3.1%User 0.0%Nice 93.8%Idl 48052 inact 213 ata0 irq14 | | | | | | | | | | 836 cache fdc0 irq6 =+> 74376 free atkbd0 irq daefr sio0 irq4 Namei Name-cache Dir-cache 23 prcfr ppc0 irq7 Calls hits % hits % react 100 clk irq0 76 76 100 pdwak 128 rtc irq8 1 zfod pdpgs Disks ad0 fd0 md0 1 ofod intrn KB/t 7.16 0.00 0.00 %slo-z 35744 buf tps 214 0 0 213 tfree 22 dirtybuf MB/s 1.49 0.00 0.00 16398 desiredvnodes % busy 100 0 0 41207 numvnodes 31368 freevnodes Your the expert in paging....please let me know what I should try to solve this :) On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:01:35 -0800 (PST) > From: Matt Dillon > To: Alfred Perlstein > Cc: Jos Backus , Dan Phoenix , > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: qmail IO problems > > I think before you guys go off wandering you need some definitive > information on the rate of incomming and outgoing mail, number of > simultanious connections being handled, and so forth. > > On the face of it, high disk transaction rates, low transfer rates, > and idle cpu implies either lots of paging I/O or softupdates isn't > actually turned on. > > Lots of paging I/O implies, potentially, lots of connections. So you > need a couple of stats in-hand to figure out what is going on: > > * How many mail-related processes are running, and by inference how > many simultanious connections are being handled?. 'ps axlww' while > the heavy I/O is going on would help a lot here. > > * Is the sytem paging? 'systat -vm 1' will give you a good indication. > > * 'vmstat 1' output also helps > > If the system is running too many processes then some messing around > with qmail's configuration options should solve the problem. > > Also, nowhere did I read how much memory this machine had. This will > give us useful information on that front: > > * cat /var/run/dmesg.boot > > (And, for gods sake, DON'T screw around with sysctl vfs.write_behind! I > should probably just rip that sysctl out. The default heuristic handles > all the cases already). > > -Matt > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 17:25:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from max5.rrze.uni-erlangen.de (max5.rrze.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.3.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0817537B503 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:25:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from devil.rrze.uni-erlangen.de by max5.rrze.uni-erlangen.de with ESMTP for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 02:25:31 +0100 Received: (from unrza2@localhost) by devil.rrze.uni-erlangen.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA32660 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 02:30:04 +0100 (CET) From: Jochen Kaiser Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 02:30:03 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: why isn't /usr/include/sys/syscall.h generated by makesyscalls? Message-Id: <20010206023002.A26837@devil.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi , i am trying to play with some statistics on ip protocols. I'd like to implement a syscall for some funcions and I wonder why sh sr/src/sys/kern/makesyscalls.sh syscalls.master updates files in /usr/src/sys/kern/ but not the ones in /usr/include/sys/ Any help, including stuff I should read is very appreciated. tia Jochen Kaiser -- Jochen Kaiser kind@IRCNET, phone +49 9131 85-28134 Network Administration mailto:jochen.kaiser@rrze.uni-erlangen.de Regionales Rechenzentrum Universitaet Erlangen-Nuernberg, Germany GPG public key: http://www.uni-erlangen.de/~unrza2/public_key.txt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 17:26:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B2CFE37B6A9 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:26:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 4509 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Feb 2001 01:25:47 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 01:25:47 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:25:47 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: <20010205165023.L26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I should also state ps awwlx|wc -l or whatever returned approx 90 processes. So don;t think that is an issue here. On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:50:23 -0800 > From: Alfred Perlstein > To: Jos Backus > Cc: Dan Phoenix , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: qmail IO problems > > * Jos Backus [010205 16:30] wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 02:11:38PM -0800, Dan Phoenix wrote: > > > their mail message is taken and piped to...sendmail -t > > > which is a symbolic link to /var/qmail/bin/sendmail -t > > > > You can save an exec by piping directly into qmail-inject, which should have > > the same effect (qmail's sendmail execv's qmail-inject; it sounds like you > > don't need the compatibility interface). > > You could also do some tricky stuff if qmail has a constant reading > scheme by using some sort of FIFO and a file that you fcntl lock > over. > > You could have a simple perl script listening on the other end of > the perl script and dole out email to several persistant processes. > > -- > -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] > "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 17:29: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF4637B684 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f161SnT56343; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:28:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:28:49 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102060128.f161SnT56343@earth.backplane.com> To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Also: * ps axlww * dmesg * pstat -s * 'vmstat 1' output for a good 20 seconds. (during the period of heavy disk I/O). In re: to softupdates. It should make a huge difference for mail applications. If it doesn't, then perhaps it isn't compiled into your kernel? I recommend researching that a bit more, turning it on (unmount the filesystem(s), 'tunefs -n enable filesystem' for each filesystem, then mount them up again), and making sure it's configured in the kernel ('options SOFTUPDATES' in the kernel config. In 4.2, the generic kernel has it configured). -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 17:30:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C30937B4EC for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:30:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f161UD856419; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:30:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:30:13 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102060130.f161UD856419@earth.backplane.com> To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (also: do not use async mounts with softupdates. Just enable softupdates with tunefs, then mount the filesystem normally). -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 17:33: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from chopper.Poohsticks.ORG (chopper.poohsticks.org [63.227.60.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 455D437B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:32:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from chopper.Poohsticks.ORG (drew@localhost.poohsticks.org [127.0.0.1]) by chopper.Poohsticks.ORG (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f161Wai06570; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:32:36 -0700 Message-Id: <200102060132.f161Wai06570@chopper.Poohsticks.ORG> To: Jochen Kaiser Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: why isn't /usr/include/sys/syscall.h generated by makesyscalls? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 2001 02:30:03 +0100." <20010206023002.A26837@devil.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6566.981423156.1@chopper.Poohsticks.ORG> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 18:32:36 -0700 From: Drew Eckhardt Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010206023002.A26837@devil.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>, Jochen.Kaiser@rr ze.uni-erlangen.de writes: >hi , > >i am trying to play with some statistics on ip protocols. I'd like >to implement a syscall for some funcions and I wonder why > >sh sr/src/sys/kern/makesyscalls.sh syscalls.master > >updates files in /usr/src/sys/kern/ but not the ones in >/usr/include/sys/ Because the kernel source tree you're playing with may be inappropriate for the machine you're building your kernel on. For example, my current employer sells black (metaphorically - in reality, they're more of a dark blue or purple) boxes which run older versions of FreeBSD than developers have on their desktop. >Any help, including stuff I should read is very appreciated. make install under /usr/src/sys/include will put the headers in the right place. make followed by make install under /usr/src/lib/libc will get you a library with the trivial wrapper functions that make the actual system calls. -- Home Page For those who do, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 17:54:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AB4BC37B684 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:54:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 6081 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Feb 2001 01:53:58 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 01:53:58 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:53:58 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Matt Dillon Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: <200102060128.f161SnT56343@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-242201614-981424438=:18264" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-242201614-981424438=:18264 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ok of those commands some interesting info was from dmesg... on one machine i had file: table is full file: table is full file: table is full file: table is full file: table is full file: table is full file: table is full file: table is full file: table is full file: table is full file: table is full file: table is full file: table is full from dmesg on the other machine looutput: mbuf allocation failed nfs server 172.16.0.101:/bravenet1/home: not responding looutput: mbuf allocation failed looutput: mbuf allocation failed looutput: mbuf allocation failed nfs server 172.16.0.101:/bravenet1/home: is alive again looutput: mbuf allocation failed looutput: mbuf allocation failed i doubt that mbuf allocation failed was from the nfs server timeout that one time....but cannot be certain......this help you at all? [root@arwen qmail-1.03]# pstat -s Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/ad0s1b 1048448 0 1048448 0% Interleaved [root@arwen qmail-1.03]# [root@elrond dphoenix]# pstat -s Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/ad0s1b 528696 2032 526664 0% Interleaved [root@elrond dphoenix]# * 'vmstat 1' output for a good 20 seconds previous email was from a good 20 seconds. ps axlww included is ps.txt..... 2 perl scripts running only on that machine at moment yet qmail queue keep getting larger....seems to be getting abit better but not that great either. On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:28:49 -0800 (PST) > From: Matt Dillon > To: Dan Phoenix > Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: qmail IO problems > > Also: > > * ps axlww > > * dmesg > > * pstat -s > > * 'vmstat 1' output for a good 20 seconds. > > (during the period of heavy disk I/O). > > In re: to softupdates. It should make a huge difference for mail > applications. If it doesn't, then perhaps it isn't compiled into > your kernel? I recommend researching that a bit more, turning it on > (unmount the filesystem(s), 'tunefs -n enable filesystem' for each > filesystem, then mount them up again), and making sure it's configured > in the kernel ('options SOFTUPDATES' in the kernel config. > In 4.2, the generic kernel has it configured). > > -Matt > --0-242201614-981424438=:18264 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="ps.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ps.txt" ICBVSUQgICBQSUQgIFBQSUQgQ1BVIFBSSSBOSSAgIFZTWiAgUlNTIFdDSEFO ICBTVEFUICBUVCAgICAgICBUSU1FIENPTU1BTkQNCiAgICAwICAgICAwICAg ICAwICAgMCAtMTggIDAgICAgIDAgICAgMCBzY2hlZCAgRExzICAgPz8gICAg MDowNC4zNiAgKHN3YXBwZXIpDQogICAgMCAgICAgMSAgICAgMCAgIDAgIDEw ICAwICAgNTI4ICAgNzIgd2FpdCAgIElMcyAgID8/ICAgIDA6MDUuNTEgL3Ni aW4vaW5pdCAtLQ0KICAgIDAgICAgIDIgICAgIDAgICAwIC0xOCAgMCAgICAg MCAgICAwIHBzbGVlcCBETCAgICA/PyAgICAwOjEyLjE1ICAocGFnZWRhZW1v 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IDggdHR5aW4gIElXcysgIHY3ICAgIDA6MDAuMDAgL3Vzci9saWJleGVjL2dl dHR5IFBjIHR0eXY3DQo= --0-242201614-981424438=:18264-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 18:31:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50C6437B67D for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:31:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f162VL557466; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:31:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:31:21 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102060231.f162VL557466@earth.backplane.com> To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :ok of those commands some interesting info was from dmesg... :on one machine i had :file: table is full :file: table is full :file: table is full :file: table is full :file: table is full :file: table is full :file: table is full :file: table is full :file: table is full :file: table is full :file: table is full :file: table is full :file: table is full : :from dmesg : :on the other machine :looutput: mbuf allocation failed :nfs server 172.16.0.101:/bravenet1/home: not responding :looutput: mbuf allocation failed :looutput: mbuf allocation failed :looutput: mbuf allocation failed :nfs server 172.16.0.101:/bravenet1/home: is alive again :looutput: mbuf allocation failed :looutput: mbuf allocation failed : :i doubt that mbuf allocation failed was from the nfs server timeout that :one time....but cannot be certain......this help you at all? This sheds a considerable amount of light on the problems... methinks you may have a low 'maxusers' setting in the kernel config. Read on. I still need the complete 'dmesg' output, or if it all scrolled off due to the above errors, cat the '/var/run/dmesg.boot' file. You had systat -vm 1 output in the earlier emails, but not 'vmstat 1' output for 20 seconds. That isn't as big a deal with all the other info we have now, but still useful. :[root@arwen qmail-1.03]# pstat -s :Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type :/dev/ad0s1b 1048448 0 1048448 0% Interleaved :[root@arwen qmail-1.03]# : :[root@elrond dphoenix]# pstat -s :Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type :/dev/ad0s1b 528696 2032 526664 0% Interleaved :[root@elrond dphoenix]# This indicates that you are not swapping or paging significantly, which is good. We can cross that off the list of possible problems. :ps axlww : :included is ps.txt..... :2 perl scripts running only on that machine at moment yet qmail queue keep :getting larger....seems to be getting abit better but not that great :either. : : (ps output not included in reply) The ps output indicates that you are running a relatively light process load. The prime suspects are thus the file table and mbuf errors. These errors normally occur when you configure a much too low 'maxusers' setting in the kernel config. Since you didn't provide the complete dmesg output (cat /var/run/dmesg.boot), I can't tell but I am guessing that you are either using the GENERIC kernel directly, or you created a custom kernel but didn't tune the 'maxusers' entry. For a machine doing the work this machine is doing, I recommend a maxusers setting in the kernel config of 256. You need to rebuild your kernel in that case. Have you ever built a kernel before? I think all you may need to do is up 'maxusers' in the kernel config and perhaps mess around with the number of mbuf clusters, but I suspect increasing maxusers will do the trick. These changes require recompiling the kernel. Also, to make sure... you haven't tweaked any other sysctl's, have you? -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 18:43:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E32AF37B67D for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:43:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 15886 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Feb 2001 02:43:08 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 02:43:08 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:43:08 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Matt Dillon Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: <200102060231.f162VL557466@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-459333415-981427388=:16117" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-459333415-981427388=:16117 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Nope I have not tweaked any kernel variables other thatn the ones i tried temporarily and put back to normal afterwards. Ok i will recompile the kernel with 256 maxuser setting and recompile included is dmesg.boot from one of the machines.....not sure if that helps as much as info i found in dmesg...as this is just hardware info. Anyways here it is....should be back in a couple hours after basketball game to recompile the kernels on those 2 boxes 2 new settings. Thx for help as of this point. On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:31:21 -0800 (PST) > From: Matt Dillon > To: Dan Phoenix > Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: qmail IO problems > > :ok of those commands some interesting info was from dmesg... > :on one machine i had > :file: table is full > :file: table is full > :file: table is full > :file: table is full > :file: table is full > :file: table is full > :file: table is full > :file: table is full > :file: table is full > :file: table is full > :file: table is full > :file: table is full > :file: table is full > : > :from dmesg > : > :on the other machine > :looutput: mbuf allocation failed > :nfs server 172.16.0.101:/bravenet1/home: not responding > :looutput: mbuf allocation failed > :looutput: mbuf allocation failed > :looutput: mbuf allocation failed > :nfs server 172.16.0.101:/bravenet1/home: is alive again > :looutput: mbuf allocation failed > :looutput: mbuf allocation failed > : > :i doubt that mbuf allocation failed was from the nfs server timeout that > :one time....but cannot be certain......this help you at all? > > This sheds a considerable amount of light on the problems... > methinks you may have a low 'maxusers' setting in the kernel > config. Read on. > > I still need the complete 'dmesg' output, or if it all scrolled off > due to the above errors, cat the '/var/run/dmesg.boot' file. > > You had systat -vm 1 output in the earlier emails, but not > 'vmstat 1' output for 20 seconds. That isn't as big a deal with > all the other info we have now, but still useful. > > > :[root@arwen qmail-1.03]# pstat -s > :Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type > :/dev/ad0s1b 1048448 0 1048448 0% Interleaved > :[root@arwen qmail-1.03]# > : > :[root@elrond dphoenix]# pstat -s > :Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type > :/dev/ad0s1b 528696 2032 526664 0% Interleaved > :[root@elrond dphoenix]# > > This indicates that you are not swapping or paging significantly, > which is good. We can cross that off the list of possible problems. > > :ps axlww > : > :included is ps.txt..... > :2 perl scripts running only on that machine at moment yet qmail queue keep > :getting larger....seems to be getting abit better but not that great > :either. > : > : (ps output not included in reply) > > The ps output indicates that you are running a relatively light process > load. The prime suspects are thus the file table and mbuf errors. > > These errors normally occur when you configure a much too low > 'maxusers' setting in the kernel config. Since you didn't provide > the complete dmesg output (cat /var/run/dmesg.boot), I can't tell > but I am guessing that you are either using the GENERIC kernel > directly, or you created a custom kernel but didn't tune the > 'maxusers' entry. > > For a machine doing the work this machine is doing, I recommend > a maxusers setting in the kernel config of 256. You need to rebuild > your kernel in that case. Have you ever built a kernel before? > I think all you may need to do is up 'maxusers' in the kernel > config and perhaps mess around with the number of mbuf clusters, > but I suspect increasing maxusers will do the trick. These > changes require recompiling the kernel. > > Also, to make sure... you haven't tweaked any other sysctl's, have > you? > > -Matt > --0-459333415-981427388=:16117 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="dmesg.boot" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dmesg.boot" Q29weXJpZ2h0IChjKSAxOTkyLTIwMDEgVGhlIEZyZWVCU0QgUHJvamVjdC4N CkNvcHlyaWdodCAoYykgMTk3OSwgMTk4MCwgMTk4MywgMTk4NiwgMTk4OCwg MTk4OSwgMTk5MSwgMTk5MiwgMTk5MywgMTk5NA0KCVRoZSBSZWdlbnRzIG9m IHRoZSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IG9mIENhbGlmb3JuaWEuIEFsbCByaWdodHMgcmVz ZXJ2ZWQuDQpGcmVlQlNEIDQuMi1TVEFCTEUgIzA6IEZyaSBGZWIgIDIgMTQ6 NDM6MDcgUFNUIDIwMDENCiAgICBkcm9vdEBhcndlbi5icmF2ZW5ldC5jb206 L3Vzci9vYmovdXNyL3NyYy9zeXMvR0VORVJJQw0KVGltZWNvdW50ZXIgImk4 MjU0IiAgZnJlcXVlbmN5IDExOTMxODIgSHoNCkNQVTogUGVudGl1bSBJSUkv UGVudGl1bSBJSUkgWGVvbi9DZWxlcm9uICg0OTguNzUtTUh6IDY4Ni1jbGFz cyBDUFUpDQogIE9yaWdpbiA9ICJHZW51aW5lSW50ZWwiICBJZCA9IDB4Njcy 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owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 19: 4:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.viasoft.com.cn (unknown [61.153.1.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBEE837B4EC for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:03:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from William ([192.168.1.98]) by mail.viasoft.com.cn (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08440 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:58:35 +0800 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:11:56 +0800 From: davidx X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f) Personal Reply-To: xuyifeng X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1439047499.20010206111156@stocke.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: make top better Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, "top" always puts CPU idle time in last, but I think in CPU states, idle is most important field, could anyone move idle field to first. change from : CPU states: 0.0% user, 0.0% nice, 0.0% system, 0.0% interrupt, 100% idle to: CPU states: 100% idle, 0.0% user, 0.0% nice, 0.0% system, 0.0% interrupt Regards, --- David Xu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 19:33:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from stox.sa.enteract.com (stox.sa.enteract.com [207.229.132.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FF6837B401 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:33:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from stox@localhost) by stox.sa.enteract.com (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f163X5t00786; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 21:33:05 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from stox) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010205092658.A97400@peorth.iteration.net> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 21:33:05 -0600 (CST) Organization: Imaginary Landscape, LLC. From: "Kenneth P. Stox" To: "Michael C . Wu" Subject: RE: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Besides what platform you decide to run this on, remember that 70TB will put off a surprising amount of heat. Plan your HVAC carefully. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 19:35:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-c.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.183.3.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E240F37B65D for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13554 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Feb 2001 03:35:00 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 03:35:00 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 21:35:00 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Silbersack To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Matt Dillon , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Dan Phoenix wrote: > Nope I have not tweaked any kernel variables other thatn the ones i tried > temporarily and put back to normal afterwards. > > Ok i will recompile the kernel with 256 maxuser setting and recompile > > included is dmesg.boot from one of the machines.....not sure if that helps > as much as info i found in dmesg...as this is just hardware info. > Anyways here it is....should be back in a couple hours after basketball > game to recompile the kernels on those 2 boxes 2 new settings. > Thx for help as of this point. Upping maxusers will probably fix the problem. But if it doesn't, please post the status qmail's reporting in maillog, such as: Feb 5 21:27:30 achilles qmail: 981430050.839717 status: local 0/10 remote 0/20 That might yield some useful details. Thanks, Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 20: 7:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from server.soekris.com (dnai-216-15-61-44.cust.dnai.com [216.15.61.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD14937B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:07:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from soekris.com ([192.168.1.4]) by server.soekris.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA01527 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:07:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Message-ID: <3A7F787A.22139C21@soekris.com> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 20:07:22 -0800 From: Soren Kristensen Organization: Soekris Engineering X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Help with PXE boot, install and related... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi everybody, First, let me start with saying that I'm not really a unix hacker, but a hardware designer having a little trouble.... All my questions are related to my hardware development project, an AMD SC520 based minimum network appliance, for details, see http://www.soekris.com/net4501.html 1) I cannot boot FreeBSD using a PXE boot ROM from a FreeBSD server. Even worse, if I set up my Win98 box with a tftp server, I can boot succesfully from that !! The pxeboot gets loaded, grab the correct info from the dhcp server, but can then not download anything more, the server logs say "server tftpd[xxxx]: read: Connection refused" I have updated my boot loader sources to -Stable and have tried both the NFS and TFTP modes. The FreeBSD server doing dhcp and nfs/tftp is running 3.1-Release. The PXE rom is an oem from bootix. I more or less used the instructions from http://people.freebsd.org/~alfred/pxe/ Any ideas ? 2) Using the Win98 tftp server, everything works fine, it downloads the standard install images, and proceed with a standard install of FreeBSD 4.1-Release. (what I happen to have around....) But my next problem is space. Even when using a 48 Mbyte CompactFlash, a minimum install doesn't fit. Anybody know what the required minimum disk space requiment are so I maybe can buy a bigger CompactFlash ? Any way to cut it down ? Does that mean a custom install ? Any pointers to help on doing that ? 3) A general request.... The standard FreeBSD install process don't seem to be very headless friendly (My hardware IS minimal...) Could the developer please try to improve on that ? T.ex, the boot sectors hangs when there's no keyboard controller, the pxeboot is using VGA as default (I had to hardcode it to use serial console), the standard install program graphics is awfull when using a VT100 terminal, and finally, a standard install leaves the system as VGA only, even when installed using a serial console.... 4) And last, for anybody still with me :-) I moved a harddisk with FreeBSD 4.1 from another computer to my test hardware after updating is with a custom kernel and serial console config files. After doing some testing and kernel compiles, I wanted to move it back to speed things up. But now it refuses to boot on the original computer. I boot ok until the login promt, I can even ping it before the promt, then hangs without error messages. Both have the same network hardware. Any ideas ? Regards, Soren Besides my problems, I still like FreeBSD, and been running 3.1-Release on a old HP 486dx-66 as my internet gateway box for over two years. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 20:47:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xena.gsicomp.on.ca (cr677933-a.ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com [24.43.230.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AABFD37B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:47:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes (hermes.gsicomp.on.ca [192.168.0.18]) by xena.gsicomp.on.ca (8.11.1/8.9.3) with SMTP id f164jJi30661; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:45:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from matt@gsicomp.on.ca) Message-ID: <004301c08ff9$02549460$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> From: "Matthew Emmerton" To: "xuyifeng" , References: <1439047499.20010206111156@stocke.com> Subject: Re: make top better Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:55:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, > > "top" always puts CPU idle time in last, but I think in CPU states, > idle is most important field, could anyone move idle field to first. It all depends on your focus. Someone using FreeBSD as a terminal or fax server with a whole bunch of serial devices might want "interrupt" first. Someone running an Apache / mod_perl / DBI machine might want "system" first. Someone running a server as a development / shell box might want "user" first. And someone running rc5 really doesn't care about idle or nice (since on my 3 boxes idle is usually 0.0% and nice is around 90%, which of course skews the "true" load of the system.) Furthermore, anyone using 'top -d' in a shell script to grab and report CPU usage data would have to change their scripts. With this in mind, I doubt a compelling reason can be formulated to make *any* field first, so it would be best to leave it the way it is. -- Matt Emmerton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 20:47:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from moby.geekhouse.net (moby.geekhouse.net [64.81.6.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13FFF37B4EC for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@dhcp151.geekhouse.net [192.168.1.151]) by moby.geekhouse.net (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f164lsc26050; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:47:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3A7F787A.22139C21@soekris.com> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 20:46:44 -0800 (PST) From: John Baldwin To: Soren Kristensen Subject: RE: Help with PXE boot, install and related... Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 06-Feb-01 Soren Kristensen wrote: > Hi everybody, > > First, let me start with saying that I'm not really a unix > hacker, but a hardware designer having a little trouble.... > > All my questions are related to my hardware development > project, an AMD SC520 based minimum network appliance, for > details, see http://www.soekris.com/net4501.html > > > 1) I cannot boot FreeBSD using a PXE boot ROM from a FreeBSD > server. Even worse, if I set up my Win98 box with a tftp > server, I can boot succesfully from that !! > > The pxeboot gets loaded, grab the correct info from the dhcp > server, but can then not download anything more, the server > logs say "server tftpd[xxxx]: read: Connection refused" > I have updated my boot loader sources to -Stable and have > tried both the NFS and TFTP modes. The FreeBSD server doing > dhcp and nfs/tftp is running 3.1-Release. > The PXE rom is an oem from bootix. I more or less used the > instructions from http://people.freebsd.org/~alfred/pxe/ > > Any ideas ? Sounds like you may not have tftpd setup correctly on the FreeBSD server. Then again, it did fetch the pxeboot image. Hmmm. What file is it reading when it dies? Does it say? > 2) Using the Win98 tftp server, everything works fine, it > downloads the standard install images, and proceed with a > standard install of FreeBSD 4.1-Release. (what I happen to > have around....) > > But my next problem is space. Even when using a 48 Mbyte > CompactFlash, a minimum install doesn't fit. You'll probably want to roll your own release that only has the binaries that you need for your application on it. There are others on this list who have done embedded stuff that are better experts in this area than I though, so I'll defer to them. Also, there is a freebsd-small list where most of the embedded types hang out. Not all of them just stick picoBSD on a floppy, many use compact flash as their storage medium. > 3) A general request.... The standard FreeBSD install > process don't seem to be very headless friendly (My hardware > IS minimal...) Could the developer please try to improve on > that ? You can do an install over serial console. We have code that can probe for a keyboard on boot and fail over to a serial console if a keyboard is present, but some newer BIOS's (notably many K7 motherboards) are broken and we don't detect a keyboard even when there is one present, resulting in people trying to do a normal install and not getting any screen output, so it is off by default. There are two ways that you can set this up. The first is to edit the boot/loader.rc that loads the kernel and add this line: set console=comconsole This will give you a serial console on COM1 @ 9600 for the installation. Secondly, you can rebuild pxeboot with an extra make option defined: make -DBOOT_PXELDR_PROBE_KEYBOARD > T.ex, the boot sectors hangs when there's no keyboard > controller, the pxeboot is using VGA as default (I had to > hardcode it to use serial console), the standard install > program graphics is awfull when using a VT100 terminal, and > finally, a standard install leaves the system as VGA only, > even when installed using a serial console.... When you install over a serial console, you can choose an appropriate termcap to use for your local terminal. If you are installing from a console on another FreeBSD box you can choose the color console, for example, and it will look like an install over VGA. The last one is something that could use some work. > 4) And last, for anybody still with me :-) I moved a > harddisk with FreeBSD 4.1 from another computer to my test > hardware after updating is with a custom kernel and serial > console config files. After doing some testing and kernel > compiles, I wanted to move it back to speed things up. > > But now it refuses to boot on the original computer. I boot > ok until the login promt, I can even ping it before the > promt, then hangs without error messages. Both have the same > network hardware. Umm, this is really weird. Can you plug a keyboard in and boot it and see if numlock works at least (just see if the LED changes) to see if interrupts are workign at all? -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 21:20:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76B0A37B401 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 21:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f165KTQ08185; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:20:29 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dan) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:20:29 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: Matt Dillon Cc: Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems Message-ID: <20010205232029.A2491@dan.emsphone.com> References: <200102060130.f161UD856419@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.14i In-Reply-To: <200102060130.f161UD856419@earth.backplane.com>; from "Matt Dillon" on Mon Feb 5 17:30:13 GMT 2001 X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Feb 05), Matt Dillon said: > (also: do not use async mounts with softupdates. Just enable > softupdates with tunefs, then mount the filesystem normally). .. and make sure you've got "options SOFTUPDATES" in your kernel. You can verify that softupdates is running by looking at the output of the "mount" command: /dev/da0s1f on /usr (ufs, NFS exported, local, soft-updates) -- Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 5 23:57:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mallory.overx.com (unknown [63.82.155.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCB1637B491 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:57:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from everest.overx.com (everest.overx.com [63.93.29.10]) by mallory.overx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A217E37F for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 03:16:12 -0600 (CST) Received: by everest.overx.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D8CBD5685; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:57:04 -0600 (CST) From: Soren Dayton Reply-To: dayton@overx.com To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: best path to developing with threads? Date: 06 Feb 2001 01:57:04 -0600 Message-ID: <86bssgckhb.fsf@everest.overx.com> Lines: 19 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0805 (Gnus v5.8.5) XEmacs/21.1 (Capitol Reef) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm looking to port some software that uses pthreads to FreeBSD and do some more development on it. I just installed 4.2 and it seems that gdb isn't very thread savvy. Not surprising, its an oldish version. What's the recommended path to getting a more thread-friendly development environment? Go to stable? Just grab the development GDB? Is there a port or recommended version of that? Thanks, Soren (Side question: is aio still buggy?) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 0:37:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from workhorse.iMach.com (workhorse.iMach.com [206.127.77.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F5CC37B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:36:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (forrestc@localhost) by workhorse.iMach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15589 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:33:44 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:33:43 -0700 (MST) From: "Forrest W. Christian" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: VM Questions - Swap "Disabling" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been digging for this answer through various resources, including the source code and various search engines and can't find the answer to this. By the way, those of you who work in the vm code are either gods or have a mind which is significantly more twisted than mine. (That was a compliment, I think). I am building FreeBSD on a Flash-based system. The desired effect is that when the system is running low on memory, it should be free to free "clean" data/code pages which it read from disk(flash) and hasn't been forced to copy due to a write. However, there will not be swap, so "pure" swapping should be disabled. Could someone be kind enough to tell me, in the context of "freeing code/data which is as read from disk" versus "swapping modified data to disk", what each of these options do (plus any other options I might want to try)? The options are: NO_SWAPPING (in makefile) vm.defer_swapspace_pageouts (sysctl) vm.disable_swapspace_pageouts (sysctl) I am fairly versed in the overall VM theory, but I am obviously not versed enough to actually be able to understand what the @#($* the code is actually doing. Thanks! - Forrest W. Christian (forrestc@imach.com) AC7DE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iMach, Ltd., P.O. Box 5749, Helena, MT 59604 http://www.imach.com Solutions for your high-tech problems. (406)-442-6648 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 2:59:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from primo.verat.net (primo.verat.net [217.26.64.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A65E637B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 02:59:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from scorpion.cosmos.all.net (ppp-105.verat.net [217.26.65.105]) by primo.verat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21048 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:59:13 +0100 Received: from scorpion.cosmos.all.net (scorpion.cosmos.all.net [127.0.0.1]) by scorpion.cosmos.all.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f16C5mT00648 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:05:48 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:05:47 +0000 (GMT) From: milunovic X-Sender: milunovic@scorpion.cosmos.all.net To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: echo request deny Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there anyway to deny echo request on FreeBSD (except ipfw add deny icmp from any to any) ? On Linux It was simple,just echo 1>/proc/.../icmp_echo_request To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 2:59:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.alcove.fr (smtp.alcove.fr [212.155.209.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C9E237B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 02:59:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from wiliam.alcove-int ([10.16.110.19] ident=mail) by smtp.alcove.fr with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14Q5py-0000ow-00; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:59:06 +0100 Received: from nsouch by wiliam.alcove-int with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14Q5px-0004LD-00; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:59:05 +0100 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:59:05 +0100 From: Nicolas Souchu To: James Halstead Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to use parallel port tape drive Message-ID: <20010206115904.A15547@wiliam.alcove-int> References: <011a01c08d80$e853a4e0$0601a8c0@halstead007> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <011a01c08d80$e853a4e0$0601a8c0@halstead007>; from james_bond_79@yahoo.com on Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 08:30:35PM -0500 Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Alc=F4ve=2C_http:=2F=2Fwww=2Ealcove=2Efr?= Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 08:30:35PM -0500, James Halstead wrote: > I have a tape drive (hp coloradoo700) which uses qic-3010 tapes. I wanted to > use it but I do not know how to access the drive over the parallel port. The > only tape drives I saw in the NOTES file are scsi. > > Can somebody please point me to man pages / web pages that will show how to > use a drive like this? Sorry, not supported. Nicholas -- Nicolas.Souchu@alcove.fr Alcôve - Open Source Software Engineer - http://www.alcove.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 3:15:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D99037B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 03:15:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:15:10 +0000 From: David Malone To: milunovic Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: echo request deny Message-ID: <20010206111510.A25095@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from milunovic@sendmail.ru on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 12:05:47PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 12:05:47PM +0000, milunovic wrote: > Is there anyway to deny echo request on FreeBSD (except ipfw add deny > icmp from any to any) ? > On Linux It was simple,just echo 1>/proc/.../icmp_echo_request You can limit the icmp response rate with: sysctl -w net.inet.icmp.icmplim=whatever where 'whatever' is the number of responses to allow in a second. You can't set it to zero however. David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 5:14:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from brutus.conectiva.com.br (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C88D37B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 05:14:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by brutus.conectiva.com.br (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f16DDKk21291; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:13:21 -0200 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:13:20 -0200 (BRDT) From: Rik van Riel X-Sender: riel@duckman.distro.conectiva To: Matt Dillon Cc: Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: <200102060231.f162VL557466@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > :file: table is full > :looutput: mbuf allocation failed > :nfs server 172.16.0.101:/bravenet1/home: is alive again > This sheds a considerable amount of light on the problems... > methinks you may have a low 'maxusers' setting in the kernel > config. Read on. Linux had problems with errors like this too, with kernel 2.0 and 2.2 when used under heavy load. In kernel 2.4 this has been solved by simply having the kernel allocate (and free) these structures on demand ... would that be an idea for FreeBSD ? Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 5:41:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (unknown [194.128.198.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A2337B491; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 05:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 883A831FB; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:41:07 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:41:07 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O Message-ID: <20010206134107.E820@tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cYtjc4pxslFTELvY" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --cYtjc4pxslFTELvY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, I'm wondering what's changed recently to cause vmware2 running on the linuxemu to lose a lot of performance with disk I/O. A couple of weeks ago I could boot win2000 under vmware2 in a matter of minutes; on today's kernel it takes 5 or 10 minutes to boot, and disk I/O is through the roof. Could someone please hit me with a clue-bat :) Joe --cYtjc4pxslFTELvY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjp//vMACgkQXVIcjOaxUBZa1QCg4Mk6A34Rh5Lv9RnBL9bVePye JCUAoJPwdOpMeW5XKZt+SNdbKXQG9BZc =10sY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cYtjc4pxslFTELvY-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 7:29: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C6537B401; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 07:28:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27735; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 07:18:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200102061518.HAA27735@implode.root.com> To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Feb 2001 09:26:59 CST." <20010205092658.A97400@peorth.iteration.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 07:18:31 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >While talking to a friend about what his company is planning to do, >I found out that he is planning a 70TB filesystem/servers/cluster/db. >(Yes, seventy t-e-r-a-b-y-t-e...) We could do this using about 44 of the not-yet-announced TSR-3100 fibre channel RAID storage systems. These are 1.8TB (1.62TB usable) capacity units in a 3U cabinet. It would take around 200A @ 120VAC (about 18KW) to power all of them and should fit in about 5 rack cabinets. Total cost would be about $3 million. -DG David Greenman Co-founder, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org President, TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 7:35:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from blake.arcadia.spb.ru (ns.arcadia.spb.ru [212.119.177.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E6B37B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 07:35:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from antigw.arcadia.intranet (antigw.arcadia.intranet [172.16.16.4]) by blake.arcadia.spb.ru (8.9.2/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA11435 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:57:57 +0300 (MSK) Received: from dhcp85.arcadia.intranet ([172.16.16.85]:3387) (HELO dhcp85.arcadia.intranet) by antigw.arcadia.intranet ([172.16.16.4]:25) (F-Secure Anti-Virus for Internet Mail 5.0.53 Release) with SMTP; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:27:09 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:33:36 +0300 From: Lev Serebryakov X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.46d) Personal Reply-To: Lev Serebryakov Organization: Arcadia, Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <38536496300.20010206183336@arcadia.spb.ru> To: All Subject: `top' strange results and `pkg_add' bug on STABLE system Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello All, I've build & install whole world from sources. Sources was cvsupped at 2 of February. I've install world on two computers: 1) iP250MMx/64Mb. 2) i486DX4-100/24Mb. System works perfectly on iP250 computer, but same system (installed over NFS from same /usr/obj and /usr/src) on i486 have two bugs: 1) top shows '0.0%' in `CPU states line' (for all states), WCPU and CPU columns for all processes. Total time, spent by process, is shows Ok. 3) pkg_add shows strnage message: rtr# pkg_add iconv-2.0_1.tgz gzip: stdout: broken pipe tar: child return 1 rtr# And after that package are installed properly (pkg_delete works without complaining about absent files, etc). I repeat, kernel and userland is in sync, and _same_ system works Ok (without these bugs) on iP250MMX/64Mb. -- Best regards, Lev mailto:Lev.Serebryakov@arcadia.spb.ru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 7:41:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au (mailman.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C2137B401; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 07:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (bde.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.102]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA26756; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 02:40:47 +1100 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 02:40:27 +1100 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-Sender: bde@besplex.bde.org To: Josef Karthauser Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O In-Reply-To: <20010206134107.E820@tao.org.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Josef Karthauser wrote: > I'm wondering what's changed recently to cause vmware2 running on > the linuxemu to lose a lot of performance with disk I/O. Use of cmpxchg and possibly other SMP pessimizations. > A couple of weeks ago I could boot win2000 under vmware2 in a matter > of minutes; on today's kernel it takes 5 or 10 minutes to boot, > and disk I/O is through the roof. > > Could someone please hit me with a clue-bat :) Read your freebsd-emulation mail :-). Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 7:46:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (unknown [194.128.198.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D996937B401; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 07:46:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 956C2311E; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:46:19 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:46:19 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Bruce Evans Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O Message-ID: <20010206154619.G820@tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010206134107.E820@tao.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="f5QefDQHtn8hx44O" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from bde@zeta.org.au on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 02:40:27AM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --f5QefDQHtn8hx44O Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 02:40:27AM +1100, Bruce Evans wrote: > > Could someone please hit me with a clue-bat :) >=20 > Read your freebsd-emulation mail :-). /me wanders off to subscribe to freebsd-emulation. Thanks Bruce. Joe --f5QefDQHtn8hx44O Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjqAHEsACgkQXVIcjOaxUBYqIwCgmL2d2E8Qp41zsQb22WnuJvdy PVYAn2mLiu4ZlxbSi+vAuvXnig+iTlzQ =QLFF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --f5QefDQHtn8hx44O-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 8:52:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bdr-xcon.matchlogic.com (mail.matchlogic.com [205.216.147.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4555D37B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:52:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.matchlogic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:52:05 -0700 Message-ID: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F5D@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com> From: Charles Randall To: 'Matt Dillon' , Dan Phoenix Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:51:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The qmail FAQ specifically recommends against soft updates for the mail queue. http://cr.yp.to/qmail/faq/reliability.html#filesystems Is this incorrect? This section also warns against async filesystems on Linux for the qmail queue. Charles -----Original Message----- From: Matt Dillon [mailto:dillon@earth.backplane.com] Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 6:30 PM To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Alfred Perlstein; Jos Backus; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems (also: do not use async mounts with softupdates. Just enable softupdates with tunefs, then mount the filesystem normally). -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 8:56:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from syncopation-03.iinet.net.au (syncopation-03.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4BA3C37B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:55:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 29523 invoked by uid 666); 6 Feb 2001 17:03:31 -0000 Received: from reggae-14-23.nv.iinet.net.au (HELO elischer.org) (203.59.77.23) by mail.m.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 17:03:31 -0000 Message-ID: <3A801E63.52D2B524@elischer.org> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 07:55:15 -0800 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bruce Evans Cc: Josef Karthauser , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bruce Evans wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Josef Karthauser wrote: > > > I'm wondering what's changed recently to cause vmware2 running on > > the linuxemu to lose a lot of performance with disk I/O. > > Use of cmpxchg and possibly other SMP pessimizations. > > > A couple of weeks ago I could boot win2000 under vmware2 in a matter > > of minutes; on today's kernel it takes 5 or 10 minutes to boot, > > and disk I/O is through the roof. > > > > Could someone please hit me with a clue-bat :) > > Read your freebsd-emulation mail :-). You are wrong Bruce, the cmpxchg discussion was regarding why running FreeBSD as a GUEST OS was slow, because the virtual machine was very slow at emulating them. That does not explain why Windows2000 and the Boot loader both slowed down by a factor or 3->6 over teh last 2 weeks. It's even slower to start up, before it has even started any emulation.. This feels like the system is massively slowing down page activations or some other sort of exceptions that are standard for vmware. The same vmware with the same guest OS (not been updated) is now much slower. > > Bruce > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 ---> X_.---._/ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 9: 6:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (flutter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08FC937B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:06:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f16Gv7B35547; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:57:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Charles Randall Cc: "'Matt Dillon'" , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:51:59 MST." <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F5D@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 17:57:07 +0100 Message-ID: <35545.981478627@critter> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F5D@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com>, Charles Randall writes: >The qmail FAQ specifically recommends against soft updates for the mail >queue. > >http://cr.yp.to/qmail/faq/reliability.html#filesystems > >Is this incorrect? > It seems to indicate that qmail doesn't use fsync(2) as much as it should do. If that is true, then yes, softupdates would mean that a lot of things which qmail (mistakenly) think has been written are in fact not on the disk. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 9:35: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-c.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.183.3.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 029E237B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:34:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 14859 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Feb 2001 17:34:40 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 17:34:40 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:34:40 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Silbersack To: David Malone Cc: milunovic , Subject: Re: echo request deny In-Reply-To: <20010206111510.A25095@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, David Malone wrote: > On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 12:05:47PM +0000, milunovic wrote: > > Is there anyway to deny echo request on FreeBSD (except ipfw add deny > > icmp from any to any) ? > > On Linux It was simple,just echo 1>/proc/.../icmp_echo_request > > You can limit the icmp response rate with: > > sysctl -w net.inet.icmp.icmplim=whatever > > where 'whatever' is the number of responses to allow in a second. > You can't set it to zero however. > > David. Echo requests are only limited in -CURRENT right now, I haven't MFC'd the change yet. Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 9:42:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A5B37B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:42:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16HdOB61963; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:39:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:39:24 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102061739.f16HdOB61963@earth.backplane.com> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <35545.981478627@critter> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :In message <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F5D@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com>, Charles Randall writes: :>The qmail FAQ specifically recommends against soft updates for the mail :>queue. :> :>http://cr.yp.to/qmail/faq/reliability.html#filesystems :> :>Is this incorrect? :> : :It seems to indicate that qmail doesn't use fsync(2) as much as it should :do. If that is true, then yes, softupdates would mean that a lot of things :which qmail (mistakenly) think has been written are in fact not on the :disk. : :-- :Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 :phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 :FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe :Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. QMail's FAQ is totally incorrect. No major filesystem -- be it FFS, EX2FS, Reiser, FFS+Softupdates, guarentees that when you write() and close() a file that the file will then survive a disk crash. All these filesystems guarentee is that if a crash occurs, when the system reboots the filesystems will be recovered into a consistent state. Softupdates is considerably better at guarenteeing this consistency (as is something like Reiser), but if you crash a softupdates disk may wind up unwinding 'more' of the last few moments worth of operations then a normal filesystem would. And, I might add, Reiser is the same way. The only way to guarentee that file data is written to disk, with any filesystem no matter how it is mounted (even sync mounted filesystems), is by calling fsync(). So I would stick with softupdates. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 9:42:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from brutus.conectiva.com.br (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B76337B65D for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:42:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by brutus.conectiva.com.br (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f16HeJp25581; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:40:19 -0200 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:40:19 -0200 (BRDT) From: Rik van Riel X-Sender: riel@duckman.distro.conectiva To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Charles Randall , "'Matt Dillon'" , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <35545.981478627@critter> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F5D@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com>, Charles Randall writes: > >The qmail FAQ specifically recommends against soft updates for the mail > >queue. > > > >http://cr.yp.to/qmail/faq/reliability.html#filesystems > > > >Is this incorrect? > > It seems to indicate that qmail doesn't use fsync(2) as much as > it should do. If that is true, then yes, softupdates would mean > that a lot of things which qmail (mistakenly) think has been > written are in fact not on the disk. If this is true, I guess qmail can be officially considered broken. IIRC SMTP requires you to wait until the data is on stable (non-volatile) storage until you are allowed to return SMTP 250... The system call used to guarantee this is fsync (and friends?); if qmail doesn't use it but makes assumptions that aren't true on any decent OS out there ... regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 9:43:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D63F37B67D for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:42:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16Hg0x62032; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:42:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:42:00 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102061742.f16Hg0x62032@earth.backplane.com> To: Rik van Riel Cc: Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: : :> :file: table is full : :> :looutput: mbuf allocation failed :> :nfs server 172.16.0.101:/bravenet1/home: is alive again : :> This sheds a considerable amount of light on the problems... :> methinks you may have a low 'maxusers' setting in the kernel :> config. Read on. : :Linux had problems with errors like this too, with :kernel 2.0 and 2.2 when used under heavy load. : :In kernel 2.4 this has been solved by simply having :the kernel allocate (and free) these structures on :demand ... would that be an idea for FreeBSD ? : :Rik :-- :Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml : :Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; :However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... : : http://www.surriel.com/ :http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ Yes, it's very doable. There are only a few subsystems which actually scale based on 'maxusers'. File descriptors, sendfile buffers, and network mbuf clusters. I think a good temporary fix would be to change the absurdly small default maxusers of 32 to something more reasonable, like 128. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 9:52:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-c.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.183.3.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B116B37B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:52:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 14904 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Feb 2001 17:52:10 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 17:52:10 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:52:10 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Silbersack To: Rik van Riel Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , 'Matt Dillon' , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Rik van Riel wrote: > The system call used to guarantee this is fsync (and friends?); > if qmail doesn't use it but makes assumptions that aren't true > on any decent OS out there ... > > regards, > > Rik Well, the various qmail programs do seem to fsync (though I'm not sure if it's in the right places.) In any case, this link seems to throw some light on the situation: ftp://elektroni.ee.tut.fi/pub/qmail_linux_metadata_message Now, I have no clue if this is correct or not, but the core of the explanation given on that page seems to be: --- So what is this all about? qmail relies on the BSD semantics of immediate update of directories on the disk when link(), unlink(), open() and rename() calls are used. But Linux writes them to the disk asynchronously. My library loaded before libc changes those calls to do the corresponding directory writes too. Then qmail should be reliable against power outages also in Linux. --- So, does anyone know if that is a correct assertion to make, and if softupdates does indeed break it? Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 9:52:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (flutter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F4437B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f16HhqB36090; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:43:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Matt Dillon Cc: Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:39:24 PST." <200102061739.f16HdOB61963@earth.backplane.com> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:43:52 +0100 Message-ID: <36088.981481432@critter> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200102061739.f16HdOB61963@earth.backplane.com>, Matt Dillon writes: > >: >:In message <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F5D@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com>, Charles Randall writes: >:>The qmail FAQ specifically recommends against soft updates for the mail >:>queue. >:> >:>http://cr.yp.to/qmail/faq/reliability.html#filesystems >:> >:>Is this incorrect? >:> >: >:It seems to indicate that qmail doesn't use fsync(2) as much as it should >:do. If that is true, then yes, softupdates would mean that a lot of things >:which qmail (mistakenly) think has been written are in fact not on the >:disk. >: >:-- >:Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 >:phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 >:FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe >:Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > > QMail's FAQ is totally incorrect. No major filesystem -- be it > FFS, EX2FS, Reiser, FFS+Softupdates, guarentees that when you > write() and close() a file that the file will then survive a disk > crash. All these filesystems guarentee is that if a crash occurs, > when the system reboots the filesystems will be recovered into a > consistent state. Softupdates is considerably better at guarenteeing > this consistency (as is something like Reiser), but if you crash a > softupdates disk may wind up unwinding 'more' of the last few moments > worth of operations then a normal filesystem would. And, I might add, > Reiser is the same way. > > The only way to guarentee that file data is written to disk, with any > filesystem no matter how it is mounted (even sync mounted filesystems), > is by calling fsync(). > > So I would stick with softupdates. ... provided that qmail calls fsync(2). -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 9:53:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB0D37B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:52:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16HoZD62214; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:50:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:50:35 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102061750.f16HoZD62214@earth.backplane.com> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <36088.981481432@critter> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> softupdates disk may wind up unwinding 'more' of the last few moments :> worth of operations then a normal filesystem would. And, I might add, :> Reiser is the same way. :> :> The only way to guarentee that file data is written to disk, with any :> filesystem no matter how it is mounted (even sync mounted filesystems), :> is by calling fsync(). :> :> So I would stick with softupdates. : :... provided that qmail calls fsync(2). : :-- :Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 It doesn't matter whether qmail calls fsync or not as far as using softupdates goes. No filesytem will guarentee stable storage with fsync(), so softupdates is not going to be too much worse then other FS's. So one might as well use softupdates. When/if qmail gets its act together and calls fsync() properly, softupdates will guarentee a level of consistency that only ReiserFS or XFS can even come close to matching. A normal EXT2FS or FFS filesystem, even with fsync(), *EVEN* with synchronous mounts, cannot guarentee file consistency because it is still possible to corrupt the directory and loose the file that was fsync()'d if a crash were to occur just after the fsync(). -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10: 0:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF21837B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16Hxv662437; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:59:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:59:57 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102061759.f16Hxv662437@earth.backplane.com> To: Mike Silbersack Cc: Rik van Riel , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Well, the various qmail programs do seem to fsync (though I'm not sure if :it's in the right places.) In any case, this link seems to throw some :light on the situation: : :ftp://elektroni.ee.tut.fi/pub/qmail_linux_metadata_message : :Now, I have no clue if this is correct or not, but the core of the :explanation given on that page seems to be: : :--- : :So what is this all about? qmail relies on the BSD semantics of immediate :update of directories on the disk when link(), unlink(), open() and :rename() calls are used. But Linux writes them to the disk asynchronously. :My library loaded before libc changes those calls to do the corresponding :directory writes too. Then qmail should be reliable against power outages :also in Linux. : :--- : :So, does anyone know if that is a correct assertion to make, and if :softupdates does indeed break it? : :Mike "Silby" Silbersack That information is incorrect as well. BSD has no such semantics. A normal FFS mount will do synchronous metadata updates for certain cases, and will try to sync the directory in certain cases including some of the above mentioned cases, but this does *NOT* in any way guarentee directory or file consistency at the time of the link(), unlink(), etc... For a normal FFS mount, all it does is reduce the probability that something will break in a crash. Maybe they got confused with NFS. The NFS server code guarentees stable storage semantics for certain cases, and enforces it by fsync()ing. But even NFS does not guarentee stable storage for open() until you fsync(). NFS does typically fsync() on last-close(), but... And, I would say, that for any mailer creating and deleting files in a spool directory at a high rate, *ONLY* a filesystem with softupdates turned on or a journaling filesystem such as XFS or ReiserFS can be considered crash-surviveable. Synchronous meta-data updates will not save you (EXT2FS or FFS without softupdates). -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10: 2: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from brutus.conectiva.com.br (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ADE637B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:01:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by brutus.conectiva.com.br (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f16Hxr425935; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:59:53 -0200 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:59:53 -0200 (BRDT) From: Rik van Riel X-Sender: riel@duckman.distro.conectiva To: Mike Silbersack Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , "'Matt Dillon'" , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Mike Silbersack wrote: > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Rik van Riel wrote: > > > The system call used to guarantee this is fsync (and friends?); > > if qmail doesn't use it but makes assumptions that aren't true > > on any decent OS out there ... > > Well, the various qmail programs do seem to fsync (though I'm > not sure if it's in the right places.) > ftp://elektroni.ee.tut.fi/pub/qmail_linux_metadata_message : > So what is this all about? qmail relies on the BSD semantics of ^^^ > immediate update of directories on the disk when link(), > unlink(), open() and rename() calls are used. Pre-softupdate BSD semantics, apparently. Doesn't sound like the smartest thing to do when you want a reliable MTA... > But Linux writes them to the disk asynchronously. My library > loaded before libc changes those calls to do the corresponding > directory writes too. Then qmail should be reliable against > power outages also in Linux. If djb could be considered to take things like reliability and the SMTP specification into account, and not just security, then qmail would have the potential to be a pretty decent mailer. As it is, I can only recommend people to go with something like postfix, Exim or zmailer ... regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10: 6:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from brutus.conectiva.com.br (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B1F37B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by brutus.conectiva.com.br (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f16I4Nh26047; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:04:23 -0200 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:04:22 -0200 (BRDT) From: Rik van Riel X-Sender: riel@duckman.distro.conectiva To: Matt Dillon Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <200102061739.f16HdOB61963@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > QMail's FAQ is totally incorrect. No major filesystem -- be it > FFS, EX2FS, Reiser, FFS+Softupdates, guarentees that when you > write() and close() a file that the file will then survive a disk > crash. All these filesystems guarentee is that if a crash occurs, > when the system reboots the filesystems will be recovered into a > consistent state. Softupdates is considerably better at guarenteeing > this consistency (as is something like Reiser), but if you crash a > softupdates disk may wind up unwinding 'more' of the last few moments > worth of operations then a normal filesystem would. And, I might add, > Reiser is the same way. Reiserfs and ext3 have write-ahead logs and, AFAIK, fsync() will not return until there is a commit point in the log. This means that fsync() will guarantee that the transactions won't be unwound (unless I've overlooked some weird special case situations where it is needed after all...). The only filesystems I can see being completely resilient against these destructive roll-backs would be LFS and tux2. regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10: 6:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5337137B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:06:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16I3m262539; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:03:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:03:48 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102061803.f16I3m262539@earth.backplane.com> To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <36239.981482344@critter> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> with fsync(), so softupdates is not going to be too much worse then :> other FS's. : :Actually, if you don't use fsync you do loose more work with :softupdates than if you use plain UFS. : :Softupdates can delay directory updates which plain UFS will runs :synchronously, and consequently you can loose stuff you throught :you had. : :-- :Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 Yes, that's true. Except if you crash in the middle of doing significant directory updates, especially when you are deleting AND creating files in the same directory at a high rate, there's a good chance that fsck will blow the entire directory away as being corrupt with a normal UFS mount. The synchronous metadata updates that a normal UFS mount will do only reduces the probability of significant loss of data for *LIGHTLY* treaded directories. Any directory under heavy use ... well, softupdates or a log structured filesystem coupled with judicious fsync() use is your only real choice. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10: 8: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (flutter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 054CF37B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:07:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f16Hx4B36241; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:59:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Matt Dillon Cc: Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:50:35 PST." <200102061750.f16HoZD62214@earth.backplane.com> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:59:04 +0100 Message-ID: <36239.981482344@critter> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200102061750.f16HoZD62214@earth.backplane.com>, Matt Dillon writes: >:> softupdates disk may wind up unwinding 'more' of the last few moments >:> worth of operations then a normal filesystem would. And, I might add, >:> Reiser is the same way. >:> >:> The only way to guarentee that file data is written to disk, with any >:> filesystem no matter how it is mounted (even sync mounted filesystems), >:> is by calling fsync(). >:> >:> So I would stick with softupdates. >: >:... provided that qmail calls fsync(2). >: >:-- >:Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > > It doesn't matter whether qmail calls fsync or not as far as using > softupdates goes. No filesytem will guarentee stable storage > with fsync(), so softupdates is not going to be too much worse then > other FS's. Actually, if you don't use fsync you do loose more work with softupdates than if you use plain UFS. Softupdates can delay directory updates which plain UFS will runs synchronously, and consequently you can loose stuff you throught you had. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10:10:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from urban.iinet.net.au (urban.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B969237B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from elischer.org (reggae-14-23.nv.iinet.net.au [203.59.77.23]) by urban.iinet.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA16233; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 02:08:35 +0800 Message-ID: <3A802F6E.D4582D54@elischer.org> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:07:58 -0800 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Silbersack Cc: Rik van Riel , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , "'Matt Dillon'" , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mckusick@mckusick.com Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Silbersack wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Rik van Riel wrote: > > > The system call used to guarantee this is fsync (and friends?); > > if qmail doesn't use it but makes assumptions that aren't true > > on any decent OS out there ... > > > > regards, > > > > Rik > > Well, the various qmail programs do seem to fsync (though I'm not sure if > it's in the right places.) In any case, this link seems to throw some > light on the situation: > > ftp://elektroni.ee.tut.fi/pub/qmail_linux_metadata_message > > Now, I have no clue if this is correct or not, but the core of the > explanation given on that page seems to be: > > --- > > So what is this all about? qmail relies on the BSD semantics of immediate > update of directories on the disk when link(), unlink(), open() and > rename() calls are used. But Linux writes them to the disk asynchronously. > My library loaded before libc changes those calls to do the corresponding > directory writes too. Then qmail should be reliable against power outages > also in Linux. > > --- > > So, does anyone know if that is a correct assertion to make, and if > softupdates does indeed break it? kirk said (but I have not completely checked it) that if you fsync a file, it will effectively fsync all the way back to the root of the filesystem. I don't know how true this is, but cerainly the inode is updated before fsync returns. I cannot tell if any directory entries pointing at that file that have not yet been sync'd are forced out before it returns.... > > Mike "Silby" Silbersack > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 ---> X_.---._/ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10:13:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aifhs8.alcatel.fr (aifhs8.alcatel.fr [212.208.74.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D0F237B69C; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:13:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from frmta003.netfr.alcatel.fr (frmta003.netfr.alcatel.fr [155.132.251.32]) by aifhs8.alcatel.fr (ALCANET/SMTP2) with SMTP id TAA03287; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:13:13 +0100 (MET) Received: by frmta003.netfr.alcatel.fr(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id C12569EB.00641367 ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:13:05 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ALCATEL From: Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:13:01 +0100 Subject: What is the latest "known-good" PXE build ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I'm trying to use the pxeboot loader from 4.2-RELEASE, to diskless boot some rack-mount PCs. Using documentation from Alfred Perlstein and Mike Smith, I've configured a DHCP server and a tftp server, and I'm still having problems with at least one machine not being able to start each time it is powered on : BTX halts (sometimes it is "Stack underflow", some other times, it goes to a register crash dump, with eip often equal to ffffff - I'm going to redirect the BIOS output to a serial port) the configuration of the server must be correct as the diskless machine sometimes can start (it loads pxeboot and the kernel via tftp, and then the rest of the partitions via NFS). The BIOS trace says the PXE is revision 2.0, build 68 : is there some other, perhaps better version of it ? (the on-board NIC on the machine is an fxp) TfH PS : As I've seen, rc has been modified to get rid of "early_nfs_mounts". After this change, the rc.diskless2 does no longer work, as this script uses /usr/bin/find and /usr is not yet mounted. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10:17:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDF7637B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16IGMF62864; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:16:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:16:22 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102061816.f16IGMF62864@earth.backplane.com> To: Julian Elischer Cc: Mike Silbersack , Rik van Riel , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mckusick@mckusick.com Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A802F6E.D4582D54@elischer.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :kirk said (but I have not completely checked it) that if you fsync a file, :it will effectively fsync all the way back to the root of the filesystem. : :I don't know how true this is, but cerainly the inode is updated before :fsync returns. I cannot tell if any directory entries pointing at that file :that have not yet been sync'd are forced out before it returns.... : : __--_|\ Julian Elischer : / \ julian@elischer.org This is totally 100% correct. If you fsync() a file, softupdates will guarentee that not only is the file consistent, but that the appropriate portions of the directory the file is in will be consistent. If you crash right then, on boot/fsck the file will be found in the directory. A non-softupdates standard filesystem mount, whether it be normal, synchronous, or asynchronous, cannot make that guarentee. Only Journaled filesystems (XFS, ReiserFS) can make similar guarentees. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10:32:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (mass.dis.org [216.240.45.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C1737B491; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:32:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f16IXZ000881; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:33:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200102061833.f16IXZ000881@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the latest "known-good" PXE build ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:13:01 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:33:35 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The BIOS trace says the PXE is revision 2.0, build 68 : is there some other, > perhaps better version of it ? (the on-board NIC on the machine is an fxp) Build 068 is a disaster; you ideally want 082 or later. > PS : As I've seen, rc has been modified to get rid of > "early_nfs_mounts". After this change, the rc.diskless2 does no longer > work, as this script uses /usr/bin/find and /usr is not yet mounted. I haven't tracked these changes, and am still using some slightly older rc files. I've updated my rc.diskless stuff to use mdconfig now though; if there's interest I'll put it up for review. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10:35:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.aciri.org (iguana.aciri.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE3E937B6CB; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:34:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.aciri.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f16IYkl41554; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:34:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200102061834.f16IYkl41554@iguana.aciri.org> Subject: Re: What is the latest "known-good" PXE build ? In-Reply-To: <200102061833.f16IXZ000881@mass.dis.org> from Mike Smith at "Feb 6, 2001 10:33:35 am" To: msmith@FreeBSD.ORG (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:34:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I haven't tracked these changes, and am still using some slightly older > rc files. I've updated my rc.diskless stuff to use mdconfig now though; > if there's interest I'll put it up for review. yes please... i'd like to fix things as needed so that diskless scripts work correctly in our next release (4.3) and current. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10:36:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.aciri.org (iguana.aciri.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8699637B491; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:36:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.aciri.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f16IaFl41590; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:36:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200102061836.f16IaFl41590@iguana.aciri.org> Subject: Re: What is the latest "known-good" PXE build ? In-Reply-To: <200102061833.f16IXZ000881@mass.dis.org> from Mike Smith at "Feb 6, 2001 10:33:35 am" To: msmith@FreeBSD.ORG (Mike Smith) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:36:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The BIOS trace says the PXE is revision 2.0, build 68 : is there some other, > > perhaps better version of it ? (the on-board NIC on the machine is an fxp) > > Build 068 is a disaster; you ideally want 082 or later. is there some standard way to upgrade the pxe code on the cards ? in case, where do i get it from ? cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10:39:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E9E37B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:39:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16Id0P63433; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:39:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:39:00 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102061839.f16Id0P63433@earth.backplane.com> To: Rik van Riel Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> consistent state. Softupdates is considerably better at guarenteeing :> this consistency (as is something like Reiser), but if you crash a :> softupdates disk may wind up unwinding 'more' of the last few moments :> worth of operations then a normal filesystem would. And, I might add, :> Reiser is the same way. : :Reiserfs and ext3 have write-ahead logs and, AFAIK, fsync() :will not return until there is a commit point in the log. : :This means that fsync() will guarantee that the transactions :won't be unwound (unless I've overlooked some weird special :case situations where it is needed after all...). Yes, I believe you are correct. I was operating under the impression that ReiserFS had only one log, though. I have not researched EXT3 so I can't comment on it. So if you fsync() a file under Reiser, aren't you fsync()ing the entire filesystem? Maybe a ReiserFS expert can comment on that. I could be completely wrong. When you fsync() under softupdates, it only pushes out the information necessary to fsync the one file and portions of the directory structure required to access that file, all the way up to root if necessary. It doesn't touch other unrelated pending data. -Matt :The only filesystems I can see being completely resilient :against these destructive roll-backs would be LFS and tux2. : :regards, : :Rik To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10:49:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (mass.dis.org [216.240.45.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A3E737B491; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:48:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f16Io9001002; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:50:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200102061850.f16Io9001002@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What is the latest "known-good" PXE build ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:36:15 PST." <200102061836.f16IaFl41590@iguana.aciri.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:50:09 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > The BIOS trace says the PXE is revision 2.0, build 68 : is there some other, > > > perhaps better version of it ? (the on-board NIC on the machine is an fxp) > > > > Build 068 is a disaster; you ideally want 082 or later. > > is there some standard way to upgrade the pxe code on the cards ? > in case, where do i get it from ? You should be able to get updates from Intel, or if you have access to a Windows development system you can grab the PXE reference implementation kit and build your own. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10:52:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5573B37B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 11130 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:49:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 18:49:28 -0000 Message-ID: <3A8047AB.D5B0FBB9@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:51:23 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Charles Randall , 'Matt Dillon' , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <35545.981478627@critter> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > In message <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F5D@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com>, Charles Randall writes: > >The qmail FAQ specifically recommends against soft updates for the mail > >queue. > > > >http://cr.yp.to/qmail/faq/reliability.html#filesystems > > > >Is this incorrect? > > > > It seems to indicate that qmail doesn't use fsync(2) as much as it should > do. If that is true, then yes, softupdates would mean that a lot of things > which qmail (mistakenly) think has been written are in fact not on the > disk. Qmail uses fsync() *very* extensivly! I know pretty well, I wrote the qmail-ldap patch. (avail on http://www.nrg4u.com). PS: Poul, have you got my email from yesterday night? -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10:54:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from brutus.conectiva.com.br (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549B737B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by brutus.conectiva.com.br (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f16IqJD27140; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:52:19 -0200 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:52:19 -0200 (BRDT) From: Rik van Riel X-Sender: riel@duckman.distro.conectiva To: Matt Dillon Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <200102061839.f16Id0P63433@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > :Reiserfs and ext3 have write-ahead logs and, AFAIK, fsync() > :will not return until there is a commit point in the log. > : > :This means that fsync() will guarantee that the transactions > :won't be unwound (unless I've overlooked some weird special > :case situations where it is needed after all...). > > Yes, I believe you are correct. I was operating under the impression > that ReiserFS had only one log, though. I have not researched EXT3 > so I can't comment on it. So if you fsync() a file under Reiser, aren't > you fsync()ing the entire filesystem? It would only need to do 2 things: 1. put a sync point in the journal, after writing all the needed data to the journal (cheap, no disk seeks involved) 2. write out the file data to the filesystem For ext3, you can either go the same way as reiserfs or you can do full data journalling. With full data journalling you will end up writing the data twice, but you can return from fsync() after having synced the data to the journal only... This decrease in latency means that for some workloads doing full data journalling could give better performance than metadata-only journalling. And then, of course, there's the option of moving the journal to a separate device. In this situation doing data journalling will almost certainly improve performance if your workload has lots of fsyncs sincy you both cut down on the seek times needed for an fsync and the "real filesystem" has more freedom to reorder the writes it does ... the data has everything needed for the last few seconds, so why worry. regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 10:59:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D487937B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:59:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16IxVv63887; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:59:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:59:31 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102061859.f16IxVv63887@earth.backplane.com> To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <35545.981478627@critter> <3A8047AB.D5B0FBB9@monzoon.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: :> :> In message <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F5D@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com>, Charles Randall writes: :> >The qmail FAQ specifically recommends against soft updates for the mail :> >queue. :> > :> >http://cr.yp.to/qmail/faq/reliability.html#filesystems :> > :> >Is this incorrect? :> > :> :> It seems to indicate that qmail doesn't use fsync(2) as much as it should :> do. If that is true, then yes, softupdates would mean that a lot of things :> which qmail (mistakenly) think has been written are in fact not on the :> disk. : :Qmail uses fsync() *very* extensivly! I know pretty well, I wrote :the qmail-ldap patch. (avail on http://www.nrg4u.com). : :PS: Poul, have you got my email from yesterday night? : :-- :Andre I did a quick search of the qmail site but couldn't find an email address to report the FAQ issue to. If QMail calls fsync() in a reasonable manner, then softupdates is perfectly safe and the QMail FAQ needs to be updated to recommend softupdates rather then disrecommend it. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:10:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nettoll.com (matrix.nettoll.net [212.155.143.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B532D37B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:09:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by smtp.nettoll.com; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 20:08:14 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <4.3.0.20010206195541.06311720@pop.free.fr> X-Sender: usebsd@pop.free.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:08:16 +0100 To: milunovic , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: mouss Subject: Re: echo request deny In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:05 06/02/01 +0000, milunovic wrote: >Is there anyway to deny echo request on FreeBSD (except ipfw add deny >icmp from any to any) ? >On Linux It was simple,just echo 1>/proc/.../icmp_echo_request 'ifconfig ifacename down' does the same, and even more. just kidding:) I don't see a valid reason to block echo req in an absolute manner. Doing it on a per-rule basis (such as for some source hosts) seems to me to be the right way. and this is currently only handled by IP filtering engines, which again seems to be the right way. Or may be do you have a motivation that I missed? If you're having script kiddies trying to ping hosts in order to attack'em, you'll certainly want to block more than just echo requests, so ipfw or ipf are worth the pain. Otherwise, they can replace ping with traceroute, telnet, netcat, .... or do you mean you want to prohibit using ping on the host itself so that your users do not ping other hosts? then change the permissions of /sbin/ping (and any other equivalent prog. it must be setuid to use raw sockets, so they can't just compile one and use it). regards, mouss To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:10:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-c.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.183.3.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C223237B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:10:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 15227 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Feb 2001 19:10:00 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 19:10:00 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:10:00 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Silbersack To: Matt Dillon Cc: Andre Oppermann , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <200102061859.f16IxVv63887@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > I did a quick search of the qmail site but couldn't find an email > address to report the FAQ issue to. If QMail calls fsync() in a > reasonable manner, then softupdates is perfectly safe and the QMail > FAQ needs to be updated to recommend softupdates rather then > disrecommend it. > > -Matt The question still reamins about link/unlink/rename. Is a fsync of the directory necessary to ensure that they completed properly? As they take filenames instead of fds, an fsync after the operation seems non-intuitive. The rename manpage seems to imply that the operation is synchronous - the other two are ambiguous. Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:11:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A75BF37B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:11:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16JB6J64240; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:11:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:11:06 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102061911.f16JB6J64240@earth.backplane.com> To: Harti Brandt Cc: Peter Wemm , Mark Huizer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clustering FreeBSD References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :PW> :PW>I have a 15K rpm drive if you want to do a recalculation. I think that :PW>is 1.05Mach, depending on whether you rounded or not. ;-) : :Well, 7cm gives 21cm per rotation or 2.1km for 10000 rotations. 10000 :Rotations Per Minute give around 130km per hour which is somewhere around :0.1MACH. So I expect not problems until the drives reach 50000 rpm :-) : :harti :-- :harti brandt, http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/cats/employees/hartmut.brandt/private : brandt@fokus.gmd.de, harti@begemot.org, lhbrandt@mail.ru It doesn't really matter if the platter exceeds the speed of sound on its outer edge. It isn't actually pushing any air so there will be no sonic boom or any other major issue to deal with. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:20: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7591037B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:19:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 11823 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:16:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 19:16:32 -0000 Message-ID: <3A804E03.B1142434@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:18:27 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rik van Riel Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , 'Matt Dillon' , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rik van Riel wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > In message <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F5D@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com>, Charles Randall writes: > > >The qmail FAQ specifically recommends against soft updates for the mail > > >queue. > > > > > >http://cr.yp.to/qmail/faq/reliability.html#filesystems > > > > > >Is this incorrect? > > > > It seems to indicate that qmail doesn't use fsync(2) as much as > > it should do. If that is true, then yes, softupdates would mean > > that a lot of things which qmail (mistakenly) think has been > > written are in fact not on the disk. > > If this is true, I guess qmail can be officially considered > broken. IIRC SMTP requires you to wait until the data is on > stable (non-volatile) storage until you are allowed to return > SMTP 250... Qmail is not broken and issues a SMTP 250 with the inode number of the queue file when the fsync() call on that file has completed. > The system call used to guarantee this is fsync (and friends?); > if qmail doesn't use it but makes assumptions that aren't true > on any decent OS out there ... Qmail uses it extensivly. Qmail treats the queue as a transactional database with roll-forward and roll-backs in the event of a crash. -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:20:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A2437B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:20:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16JKdN64467; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:20:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:20:39 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102061920.f16JKdN64467@earth.backplane.com> To: Mike Silbersack Cc: Andre Oppermann , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: : :> I did a quick search of the qmail site but couldn't find an email :> address to report the FAQ issue to. If QMail calls fsync() in a :> reasonable manner, then softupdates is perfectly safe and the QMail :> FAQ needs to be updated to recommend softupdates rather then :> disrecommend it. :> :> -Matt : :The question still reamins about link/unlink/rename. Is a fsync of the :directory necessary to ensure that they completed properly? As they take :filenames instead of fds, an fsync after the operation seems :non-intuitive. The rename manpage seems to imply that the operation is :synchronous - the other two are ambiguous. : :Mike "Silby" Silbersack If you rename a file and then fsync() the file's descriptor, you will guarentee the directory structure. Same with link. If you you unlink a file and still have an open descriptor you can fsync() the descriptor to guarentee the directory unlink. It might be a good idea to ftruncate() the file to 0-length in addition to unlinking it, prior to calling fsync(), to avoid unnecessary data block writes. I've never tried fsync()ing a directory descriptor so I don't know if that would work or not. No other filesystem makes guarentees for these operations either. Not even normal UFS mounts. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:21:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F61A37B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:21:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 11870 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:18:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 19:18:02 -0000 Message-ID: <3A804E5D.97BA622C@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:19:57 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Matt Dillon , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <36088.981481432@critter> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > In message <200102061739.f16HdOB61963@earth.backplane.com>, Matt Dillon writes: > > > >: > >:In message <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F5D@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com>, Charles Randall writes: > >:>The qmail FAQ specifically recommends against soft updates for the mail > >:>queue. > >:> > >:>http://cr.yp.to/qmail/faq/reliability.html#filesystems > >:> > >:>Is this incorrect? > >:> > >: > >:It seems to indicate that qmail doesn't use fsync(2) as much as it should > >:do. If that is true, then yes, softupdates would mean that a lot of things > >:which qmail (mistakenly) think has been written are in fact not on the > >:disk. > >: > >:-- > >:Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > >:phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > >:FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > >:Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > > > > QMail's FAQ is totally incorrect. No major filesystem -- be it > > FFS, EX2FS, Reiser, FFS+Softupdates, guarentees that when you > > write() and close() a file that the file will then survive a disk > > crash. All these filesystems guarentee is that if a crash occurs, > > when the system reboots the filesystems will be recovered into a > > consistent state. Softupdates is considerably better at guarenteeing > > this consistency (as is something like Reiser), but if you crash a > > softupdates disk may wind up unwinding 'more' of the last few moments > > worth of operations then a normal filesystem would. And, I might add, > > Reiser is the same way. > > > > The only way to guarentee that file data is written to disk, with any > > filesystem no matter how it is mounted (even sync mounted filesystems), > > is by calling fsync(). > > > > So I would stick with softupdates. > > ... provided that qmail calls fsync(2). $ cd qmail-ldap/ $ grep fsync * | wc -l 21 $ Twenty-one times in qmail(-ldap) seems to be enough... -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:23:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rapidnet.com (rapidnet.com [205.164.216.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16BD37B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:23:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nick@localhost) by rapidnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA47414; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:23:27 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:23:27 -0700 (MST) From: Nick Rogness To: milunovic Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: echo request deny In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, milunovic wrote: > Is there anyway to deny echo request on FreeBSD (except ipfw add deny > icmp from any to any) ? > On Linux It was simple,just echo 1>/proc/.../icmp_echo_request If you just want to block echo_requests and don't want to block any other ICMP why not use ipfw? ipfw add 1000 deny icmp from any to any in via xl0 icmptypes 8 This will still allow other icmp to work...so why not use it? Nick Rogness - Keep on routing in a Free World... "FreeBSD: The Power to Serve " To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:24: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3FCA837B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:23:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 11919 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:20:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 19:20:30 -0000 Message-ID: <3A804EF1.F44B1F07@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:22:25 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Dillon Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <36088.981481432@critter> <200102061750.f16HoZD62214@earth.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > > :> softupdates disk may wind up unwinding 'more' of the last few moments > :> worth of operations then a normal filesystem would. And, I might add, > :> Reiser is the same way. > :> > :> The only way to guarentee that file data is written to disk, with any > :> filesystem no matter how it is mounted (even sync mounted filesystems), > :> is by calling fsync(). > :> > :> So I would stick with softupdates. > : > :... provided that qmail calls fsync(2). > : > :-- > :Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > > It doesn't matter whether qmail calls fsync or not as far as using > softupdates goes. No filesytem will guarentee stable storage > with fsync(), so softupdates is not going to be too much worse then > other FS's. So one might as well use softupdates. When/if qmail gets > its act together and calls fsync() properly, softupdates will guarentee > a level of consistency that only ReiserFS or XFS can even come close > to matching. A normal EXT2FS or FFS filesystem, even with fsync(), > *EVEN* with synchronous mounts, cannot guarentee file consistency > because it is still possible to corrupt the directory and loose the > file that was fsync()'d if a crash were to occur just after the fsync(). No, see Julians previous mail. fsync() only returns when all associated inodes and directory entries up the root are made. Qmail does the right thing. -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:29:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 75FA237B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:29:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 12070 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 19:25:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:27:49 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rik van Riel Cc: Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , 'Matt Dillon' , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rik van Riel wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Mike Silbersack wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Rik van Riel wrote: > > > > > The system call used to guarantee this is fsync (and friends?); > > > if qmail doesn't use it but makes assumptions that aren't true > > > on any decent OS out there ... > > > > Well, the various qmail programs do seem to fsync (though I'm > > not sure if it's in the right places.) > > > ftp://elektroni.ee.tut.fi/pub/qmail_linux_metadata_message : > > > So what is this all about? qmail relies on the BSD semantics of > ^^^ > > immediate update of directories on the disk when link(), > > unlink(), open() and rename() calls are used. > > Pre-softupdate BSD semantics, apparently. Doesn't sound like > the smartest thing to do when you want a reliable MTA... This description is not entirely right. Qmail depends on ordered-metadata updates (Terry! :-). That means if you issue a link() to the new place and a unlink() in the old place it should guarantee that the link() happens *BEFORE* the unlink(). At least standard FFS/UFS does this. Linux ext2 might do the the unlink() before the link() and a crash in that moment will loose the file completely. It is all about the ordering guarantee. > > But Linux writes them to the disk asynchronously. My library > > loaded before libc changes those calls to do the corresponding > > directory writes too. Then qmail should be reliable against > > power outages also in Linux. > > If djb could be considered to take things like reliability > and the SMTP specification into account, and not just > security, then qmail would have the potential to be a pretty > decent mailer. He did and qmail is one of the best and most reliable mailers on the Internet. > As it is, I can only recommend people to go with something > like postfix, Exim or zmailer ... Have a look at the qmail source and the facts before you spill out such a *bullshit*! -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:33:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AF48237B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:33:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 12187 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:30:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 19:30:13 -0000 Message-ID: <3A805137.230E0A0D@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:32:07 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Dillon Cc: Mike Silbersack , Rik van Riel , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <200102061759.f16Hxv662437@earth.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > > :Well, the various qmail programs do seem to fsync (though I'm not sure if > :it's in the right places.) In any case, this link seems to throw some > :light on the situation: > : > :ftp://elektroni.ee.tut.fi/pub/qmail_linux_metadata_message > : > :Now, I have no clue if this is correct or not, but the core of the > :explanation given on that page seems to be: > : > :--- > : > :So what is this all about? qmail relies on the BSD semantics of immediate > :update of directories on the disk when link(), unlink(), open() and > :rename() calls are used. But Linux writes them to the disk asynchronously. > :My library loaded before libc changes those calls to do the corresponding > :directory writes too. Then qmail should be reliable against power outages > :also in Linux. > : > :--- > : > :So, does anyone know if that is a correct assertion to make, and if > :softupdates does indeed break it? > : > :Mike "Silby" Silbersack > > That information is incorrect as well. BSD has no such semantics. > A normal FFS mount will do synchronous metadata updates for certain > cases, and will try to sync the directory in certain cases including > some of the above mentioned cases, but this does *NOT* in any way > guarentee directory or file consistency at the time of the link(), > unlink(), etc... For a normal FFS mount, all it does is reduce the > probability that something will break in a crash. This information is in fact correct. Have a look at the FreeBSD link(2) man page: LINK(2) FreeBSD System Calls Manual LINK(2) NAME link - make a hard file link SYNOPSIS #include int link(const char *name1, const char *name2) DESCRIPTION The link() function call atomically creates the specified directory entry ^^^^^^^^^^ (hard link) name2 with the attributes of the underlying object pointed at by name1. If the link is successful: the link count of the underlying ob- ject is incremented; name1 and name2 share equal access and rights to the underlying object. If name1 is removed, the file name2 is not deleted and the link count of the underlying object is decremented. Name1 must exist for the hard link to succeed and both name1 and name2 must be in the same file system. name1 may not be a directory. > Maybe they got confused with NFS. The NFS server code guarentees stable > storage semantics for certain cases, and enforces it by fsync()ing. But > even NFS does not guarentee stable storage for open() until you fsync(). > NFS does typically fsync() on last-close(), but... > > And, I would say, that for any mailer creating and deleting files in > a spool directory at a high rate, *ONLY* a filesystem with softupdates > turned on or a journaling filesystem such as XFS or ReiserFS can be > considered crash-surviveable. Synchronous meta-data updates will not > save you (EXT2FS or FFS without softupdates). Sync meta-data updates safes me. Qmail depends on the atomicallity of this call. -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:37:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 77DC437B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:37:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 12287 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:33:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 19:33:57 -0000 Message-ID: <3A805217.1D045A00@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:35:51 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rik van Riel Cc: Matt Dillon , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rik van Riel wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > > > QMail's FAQ is totally incorrect. No major filesystem -- be it > > FFS, EX2FS, Reiser, FFS+Softupdates, guarentees that when you > > write() and close() a file that the file will then survive a disk > > crash. All these filesystems guarentee is that if a crash occurs, > > when the system reboots the filesystems will be recovered into a > > consistent state. Softupdates is considerably better at guarenteeing > > this consistency (as is something like Reiser), but if you crash a > > softupdates disk may wind up unwinding 'more' of the last few moments > > worth of operations then a normal filesystem would. And, I might add, > > Reiser is the same way. > > Reiserfs and ext3 have write-ahead logs and, AFAIK, fsync() > will not return until there is a commit point in the log. Also FFS/UFS will not return before the file and directory entry is written to the disk. > This means that fsync() will guarantee that the transactions > won't be unwound (unless I've overlooked some weird special > case situations where it is needed after all...). > > The only filesystems I can see being completely resilient > against these destructive roll-backs would be LFS and tux2. This doesnt matter. If your machine crashes while receiving a message you're never going to issue a SMTP 250 to the sending mail server and it will try again later. We don't care if this incomplete queue file survives or gets purged. -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:38:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from brutus.conectiva.com.br (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2DE37B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:38:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by brutus.conectiva.com.br (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f16JaV328283; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:36:31 -0200 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:36:31 -0200 (BRDT) From: Rik van Riel X-Sender: riel@duckman.distro.conectiva To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Matt Dillon , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <3A805137.230E0A0D@monzoon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Andre Oppermann wrote: > Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:32:07 +0100 > From: Andre Oppermann > NAME > link - make a hard file link > DESCRIPTION > The link() function call atomically creates the specified directory > entry > ^^^^^^^^^^ > (hard link) name2 with the attributes of the underlying object > pointed at > by name1. If the link is successful: the link count of the > underlying ob- > ject is incremented; name1 and name2 share equal access and rights > to the > underlying object. IE. link() atomically creates the directory entry and increments the usage count of the inode. I don't see anything about writing the thing to disk ... regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:41:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from brutus.conectiva.com.br (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38FA137B67D for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:41:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by brutus.conectiva.com.br (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f16JVgT28166; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:31:42 -0200 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:31:42 -0200 (BRDT) From: Rik van Riel X-Sender: riel@duckman.distro.conectiva To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , "'Matt Dillon'" , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Andre Oppermann wrote: > Qmail depends on ordered-metadata updates (Terry! :-). That > means if you issue a link() to the new place and a unlink() in > the old place it should guarantee that the link() happens > *BEFORE* the unlink(). > > As it is, I can only recommend people to go with something > > like postfix, Exim or zmailer ... > > Have a look at the qmail source and the facts before you spill > out such a *bullshit*! If qmail depends on a behaviour which isn't guaranteed by some OSes ... Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:43: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4ACB437B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:42:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 12464 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:39:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 19:39:36 -0000 Message-ID: <3A80536B.9A84B1B@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:41:31 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Silbersack Cc: Matt Dillon , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Silbersack wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > > > I did a quick search of the qmail site but couldn't find an email > > address to report the FAQ issue to. If QMail calls fsync() in a > > reasonable manner, then softupdates is perfectly safe and the QMail > > FAQ needs to be updated to recommend softupdates rather then > > disrecommend it. > > > > -Matt > > The question still reamins about link/unlink/rename. Is a fsync of the > directory necessary to ensure that they completed properly? As they take > filenames instead of fds, an fsync after the operation seems > non-intuitive. The rename manpage seems to imply that the operation is > synchronous - the other two are ambiguous. The link() man page states link()s happen atomically. This is all we need here. This assures us that we will always have the file in the new place before we unlink() it in the old place. -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:44:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3924337B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:43:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16Jhp365113; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:43:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:43:51 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> Pre-softupdate BSD semantics, apparently. Doesn't sound like :> the smartest thing to do when you want a reliable MTA... : :This description is not entirely right. : :Qmail depends on ordered-metadata updates (Terry! :-). That means :if you issue a link() to the new place and a unlink() in the old :place it should guarantee that the link() happens *BEFORE* the :unlink(). At least standard FFS/UFS does this. Linux ext2 might :do the the unlink() before the link() and a crash in that moment :will loose the file completely. It is all about the ordering :guarantee. No filesystem can guarentee ordered metadata upates. Well, that isn't quite true... a journaled filesystem can, but it is usually undesireable to have a global ordering guarentee for a filesystem because you can end up in a situation where you have lots of processes banging on unrelated areas of the filesystem in parallel, and an fsync() of one descriptor would have to wait for the entire filesystem to reach a synchronization point to guarentee metadata update ordering. This creates a serious scaleability issue within a filesystem! Standard FFS/UFS does *NOT* guarentee ordered metadata updates. It uses synchronous directory updates for certain operations, but these only provide guarentees when operating on lightly loaded directories. Heavily loaded directories can still (and probably will) wind up in a corrupted state if the system crashes at the wrong time. Dealing with the issue of multiple processes banging on a single directory all at the same time, doing simultanious file creates and deletions, is a very complex problem to solve, and FFS/UFS does not solve it. Softupdates solves the problem, but even softupdates still doesn't try to guarentee metadata update ordering because it is extremely difficult to do it and still have reasonable filesystem performance. So the simple answer here is that if QMail is relying on ordered metadata updates, it is relying on something that virtually nobody supports with any real level of confidence. If you want to achieve a database's transactional qualities, you need to write meta-data operations to a log file, cluster the writes within a filesystem block properly, and fsync() the log file so you can rerun it after a crash. (I will mention here that, of course, sendmail and postfix are no better in this regard. This is not a detriment to QMail itself verses other mailers. Since QMail fsync()'s reasonably, it will be just as reliable as other existing MTAs). -Matt :> If djb could be considered to take things like reliability :> and the SMTP specification into account, and not just :> security, then qmail would have the potential to be a pretty :> decent mailer. : :He did and qmail is one of the best and most reliable mailers on :the Internet. : :> As it is, I can only recommend people to go with something :> like postfix, Exim or zmailer ... : :Have a look at the qmail source and the facts before you spill :out such a *bullshit*! : :-- :Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:45:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from brutus.conectiva.com.br (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FB837B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:45:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by brutus.conectiva.com.br (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f16Ji1028541; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:44:01 -0200 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:44:01 -0200 (BRDT) From: Rik van Riel X-Sender: riel@duckman.distro.conectiva To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Matt Dillon , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <3A805217.1D045A00@monzoon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Andre Oppermann wrote: > Rik van Riel wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > > > > Reiserfs and ext3 have write-ahead logs and, AFAIK, fsync() > > will not return until there is a commit point in the log. > > Also FFS/UFS will not return before the file and directory entry > is written to the disk. Not relevant for the point Matt was making... > > This means that fsync() will guarantee that the transactions > > won't be unwound (unless I've overlooked some weird special > > case situations where it is needed after all...). > > > > The only filesystems I can see being completely resilient > > against these destructive roll-backs would be LFS and tux2. > > This doesnt matter. If your machine crashes while receiving a > message you're never going to issue a SMTP 250 to the sending > mail server and it will try again later. We don't care if this > incomplete queue file survives or gets purged. If you have a busy mailspool, it might just be the case that the OS is making another write to the same directory after your SMTP 250 has been issued. If the machine crashes during this write and leaves the directory in a state which cannot be recovered by fsck, the whole directory will be purged and you'll lose your messages. regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:45:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 61BF237B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 12552 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:42:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 19:42:16 -0000 Message-ID: <3A80540B.CFF35C0F@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:44:11 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Dillon Cc: Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <200102061920.f16JKdN64467@earth.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > > :On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > : > :> I did a quick search of the qmail site but couldn't find an email > :> address to report the FAQ issue to. If QMail calls fsync() in a > :> reasonable manner, then softupdates is perfectly safe and the QMail > :> FAQ needs to be updated to recommend softupdates rather then > :> disrecommend it. > :> > :> -Matt > : > :The question still reamins about link/unlink/rename. Is a fsync of the > :directory necessary to ensure that they completed properly? As they take > :filenames instead of fds, an fsync after the operation seems > :non-intuitive. The rename manpage seems to imply that the operation is > :synchronous - the other two are ambiguous. > : > :Mike "Silby" Silbersack > > If you rename a file and then fsync() the file's descriptor, you > will guarentee the directory structure. Same with link. If you > you unlink a file and still have an open descriptor you can fsync() > the descriptor to guarentee the directory unlink. It might be a good > idea to ftruncate() the file to 0-length in addition to unlinking it, > prior to calling fsync(), to avoid unnecessary data block writes. Qmail has no need for guaranteed unlink()s. It only needs atomically link()s. > I've never tried fsync()ing a directory descriptor so I don't know > if that would work or not. This is neccessary for ext2 even in sychronous mount. > No other filesystem makes guarentees for these operations either. > Not even normal UFS mounts. -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:49:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B039D37B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 12673 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:45:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 19:45:50 -0000 Message-ID: <3A8054E1.801E3B4E@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:47:45 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rik van Riel Cc: Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , 'Matt Dillon' , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rik van Riel wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Andre Oppermann wrote: > > > Qmail depends on ordered-metadata updates (Terry! :-). That > > means if you issue a link() to the new place and a unlink() in > > the old place it should guarantee that the link() happens > > *BEFORE* the unlink(). > > > > As it is, I can only recommend people to go with something > > > like postfix, Exim or zmailer ... > > > > Have a look at the qmail source and the facts before you spill > > out such a *bullshit*! > > If qmail depends on a behaviour which isn't guaranteed by > some OSes ... Under Linux ext2 doesn't even guarantee that fsync() does what it is supposed to do. Not even postfix or whatever can work around that. At least qmail says it requires these semantics to not loose messages. What it boils down to is that Linux ext2 is a no-no for any no-loss reliable mail service. -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 11:56:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F360C37B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:56:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16JuCb65538; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:56:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:56:12 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102061956.f16JuCb65538@earth.backplane.com> To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Mike Silbersack , Rik van Riel , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <200102061759.f16Hxv662437@earth.backplane.com> <3A805137.230E0A0D@monzoon.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :This information is in fact correct. Have a look at the FreeBSD link(2) :man page: : :LINK(2) FreeBSD System Calls Manual :LINK(2) Andre, I think there *might* be a dozen people in the world that understand UFS/FFS better then I do, but none of them have posted to this thread. Believe me when I say that there is no metadata ordering guarentee in the case of a crash. Yes a standard UFS/FFS will do synchronous metadata updates for certain operations. No, this does not guarentee metadata ordering. There has been talk of providing system calls to allow user programs to request ordering semantics for certain operations, but nobody has actually implemented anything. Most of the discussion has been centered on having calls to guarentee file write ordering between a set of open descriptors for databases. As I said, a journaled filesystem can theoretically make metadata ordering guarentees, but actually doing so creates massive performance and scaleability issues that aren't apparent until you really start pounding the filesystem. It *CAN* be done efficiently, but only if you have a significant amount of non-volatile memory store to hold the journal. ReiserFS might do it right now, as a side effect, but if it does it faces serious scaleability issues. Softupdates can also theoretically order [meta]data, using dependancies. It is a very difficult problem to solve and it doesn't do it now. All softupdates does is guarentee filesystem consistency in the case of a crash and certain guarentees for what will be crash-recoverable when you do an fsync(). -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12: 4:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EECC37B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:04:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f16K1mx20357; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:01:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:01:48 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Matt Dillon Cc: Andre Oppermann , Mike Silbersack , Rik van Riel , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010206120148.R26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200102061759.f16Hxv662437@earth.backplane.com> <3A805137.230E0A0D@monzoon.net> <200102061956.f16JuCb65538@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102061956.f16JuCb65538@earth.backplane.com>; from dillon@earth.backplane.com on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 11:56:12AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Since I'm still being cc'd on this... :) * Matt Dillon [010206 11:56] wrote: > : > :This information is in fact correct. Have a look at the FreeBSD link(2) > :man page: > : > :LINK(2) FreeBSD System Calls Manual > :LINK(2) > > Andre, I think there *might* be a dozen people in the world that > understand UFS/FFS better then I do, but none of them have posted to > this thread. > > Believe me when I say that there is no metadata ordering guarentee > in the case of a crash. Yes a standard UFS/FFS will do synchronous > metadata updates for certain operations. No, this does not guarentee > metadata ordering. It does if it's a single threaded process doing the updates, or the IPC doesn't allow one process to proceed until the first initiated call is complete. > There has been talk of providing system calls to allow user programs > to request ordering semantics for certain operations, but nobody has > actually implemented anything. Most of the discussion has been centered > on having calls to guarentee file write ordering between a set of > open descriptors for databases. Sort of like process groups, a process can join in an IO-group and have all journal entries tagged as belonging to the group, when an fsync is done (or maybe fsync_ioid()) all those tagged entries can be flushed. It's not that hard, it just takes some time. You also have to deal with overlap, by either forcing a sync op, or allowing IO-groups to be mixed creating dependancies where if IO-group 1 calls fsync, it can't return until IO-group 2 is done. You then generate a new generation count for each IO-group involved in the fsync. well maybe. :) -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12: 5:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from w250.z064001178.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net (w250.z064001178.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [64.1.178.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 83C4E37B67D for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:05:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 59974 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Feb 2001 20:05:22 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:05:00 -0800 From: Jos Backus To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010206120500.A59281@lizzy.bugworks.com> Reply-To: Jos Backus Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <35545.981478627@critter> <3A8047AB.D5B0FBB9@monzoon.net> <200102061859.f16IxVv63887@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102061859.f16IxVv63887@earth.backplane.com>; from dillon@earth.backplane.com on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 10:59:09AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 10:59:09AM -0800, Matt Dillon wrote: > I did a quick search of the qmail site but couldn't find an email > address to report the FAQ issue to. Try sending mail to djb@cr.yp.to... -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Modularity is not a hack." _/ _/ _/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ josb@cncdsl.com _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12: 7:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D53E737B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:07:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13169 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:04:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 20:04:22 -0000 Message-ID: <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:06:16 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Dillon Cc: Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > > :> Pre-softupdate BSD semantics, apparently. Doesn't sound like > :> the smartest thing to do when you want a reliable MTA... > : > :This description is not entirely right. > : > :Qmail depends on ordered-metadata updates (Terry! :-). That means > :if you issue a link() to the new place and a unlink() in the old > :place it should guarantee that the link() happens *BEFORE* the > :unlink(). At least standard FFS/UFS does this. Linux ext2 might > :do the the unlink() before the link() and a crash in that moment > :will loose the file completely. It is all about the ordering > :guarantee. > > No filesystem can guarentee ordered metadata upates. Well, that > isn't quite true... a journaled filesystem can, but it is usually > undesireable to have a global ordering guarentee for a filesystem > because you can end up in a situation where you have lots of processes > banging on unrelated areas of the filesystem in parallel, and an > fsync() of one descriptor would have to wait for the entire filesystem > to reach a synchronization point to guarentee metadata update ordering. > This creates a serious scaleability issue within a filesystem! Yes, my understanding of the meaning of "ordered meta-date update" as I have grasped it from Terry's rants in the past years is not that all meta-data updates on a filesystem have to be done one-after-the-other but ordered in respect to each other; That a link() happens before a unlink() on the same file. Does this make sense? > Standard FFS/UFS does *NOT* guarentee ordered metadata updates. It > uses synchronous directory updates for certain operations, but these > only provide guarentees when operating on lightly loaded directories. > Heavily loaded directories can still (and probably will) wind up in a > corrupted state if the system crashes at the wrong time. Dealing with > the issue of multiple processes banging on a single directory all > at the same time, doing simultanious file creates and deletions, is a > very complex problem to solve, and FFS/UFS does not solve it. Softupdates > solves the problem, but even softupdates still doesn't try to guarentee > metadata update ordering because it is extremely difficult to do it and > still have reasonable filesystem performance. Qmail has a couple of directories for the different states a queued message goes through. The whole queue structure is required to be on the same partition/disk. After the completing of each step in the queue it is moved through the use of link() and then unlink() to the next directory. If link() only returns *after* it has written the new directory entry to the disk the transaction system of qmail is happy. If a crash happens when the the file linked to the new place but not yet removed from the old place qmail detects that after a reboot because it uses the inode number of the file as the filename of the queue file and does a roll- forward to the next stage. If the link() did not happen because of the crash no link will be in the next stage directory and the unlink() will not have been issued. This is sort a natural roll-back. In worst case a message will be delivered two times but never lost. > So the simple answer here is that if QMail is relying on ordered metadata > updates, it is relying on something that virtually nobody supports > with any real level of confidence. If you want to achieve a database's > transactional qualities, you need to write meta-data operations to a log > file, cluster the writes within a filesystem block properly, and fsync() > the log file so you can rerun it after a crash. To go around this qmail uses a file-system transaction strategy I've described above. > (I will mention here that, of course, sendmail and postfix are no better > in this regard. This is not a detriment to QMail itself verses other > mailers. Since QMail fsync()'s reasonably, it will be just as reliable > as other existing MTAs). Does sendmail even use fsync()? -- Andre > -Matt > > :> If djb could be considered to take things like reliability > :> and the SMTP specification into account, and not just > :> security, then qmail would have the potential to be a pretty > :> decent mailer. > : > :He did and qmail is one of the best and most reliable mailers on > :the Internet. > : > :> As it is, I can only recommend people to go with something > :> like postfix, Exim or zmailer ... > : > :Have a look at the qmail source and the facts before you spill > :out such a *bullshit*! > : > :-- > :Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:13:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 726AB37B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:13:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13289 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:09:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 20:09:48 -0000 Message-ID: <3A805A7F.1CE293F4@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:11:43 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rik van Riel Cc: Matt Dillon , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rik van Riel wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Andre Oppermann wrote: > > Rik van Riel wrote: > > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > > > > > > Reiserfs and ext3 have write-ahead logs and, AFAIK, fsync() > > > will not return until there is a commit point in the log. > > > > Also FFS/UFS will not return before the file and directory entry > > is written to the disk. > > Not relevant for the point Matt was making... Very relevant in respect to qmail. See my other mail. > > > This means that fsync() will guarantee that the transactions > > > won't be unwound (unless I've overlooked some weird special > > > case situations where it is needed after all...). > > > > > > The only filesystems I can see being completely resilient > > > against these destructive roll-backs would be LFS and tux2. > > > > This doesnt matter. If your machine crashes while receiving a > > message you're never going to issue a SMTP 250 to the sending > > mail server and it will try again later. We don't care if this > > incomplete queue file survives or gets purged. > > If you have a busy mailspool, it might just be the case that > the OS is making another write to the same directory after > your SMTP 250 has been issued. So what? As long as link() only returns after it has written the new entry to the disk. > If the machine crashes during this write and leaves the directory > in a state which cannot be recovered by fsck, the whole directory > will be purged and you'll lose your messages. This happens frequently with ext2. The SMTP 250 will only be issued after the link() to the new directory so a corruption of the first queue stage directory in a way you describe it here should not cause any harm other than having to recreate the directory. You guys seem to be somehow fed up the way sendmail is handling it's queue...?! Those assumtions do not apply to qmails way of doing business. -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:16:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (flutter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C40C437B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f16KGcB37607 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:16:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: MRTG like graphs without SNMP: howto. From: Poul-Henning Kamp Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:16:38 +0100 Message-ID: <37605.981490598@critter> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I sat down and hacked a couple of shellscripts to give a basic graphing of the interface trafic on a FreeBSD box without taking the detour around SNMP. The result is available here: http://phk.freebsd.dk/IfTraf/ Enjoy, -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:16:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F2E37B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:16:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f16KDvl20728; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:13:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:13:57 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010206121357.S26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net>; from oppermann@monzoon.net on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 09:06:16PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:07] wrote: > > Yes, my understanding of the meaning of "ordered meta-date update" as > I have grasped it from Terry's rants in the past years is not that all > meta-data updates on a filesystem have to be done one-after-the-other > but ordered in respect to each other; That a link() happens before a > unlink() on the same file. Does this make sense? Only when done by a single process or something waits for the link to complete before starting the unlink. If two processes "race" to link and unlink then no. > > (I will mention here that, of course, sendmail and postfix are no better > > in this regard. This is not a detriment to QMail itself verses other > > mailers. Since QMail fsync()'s reasonably, it will be just as reliable > > as other existing MTAs). > > Does sendmail even use fsync()? It better. :) -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:18:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 656D037B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f16KIdx66146; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:18:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:18:39 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102062018.f16KIdx66146@earth.backplane.com> To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> banging on unrelated areas of the filesystem in parallel, and an :> fsync() of one descriptor would have to wait for the entire filesystem :> to reach a synchronization point to guarentee metadata update ordering. :> This creates a serious scaleability issue within a filesystem! : :Yes, my understanding of the meaning of "ordered meta-date update" as :I have grasped it from Terry's rants in the past years is not that all :meta-data updates on a filesystem have to be done one-after-the-other :but ordered in respect to each other; That a link() happens before a :unlink() on the same file. Does this make sense? If you link() in directory A and unlink() in directory B, you are not guarenteed that the link in A will sync to the disk before the unlink in B with regards to a crash occuring. With a normal UFS/FFS mount, if both directories are otherwise entirely idle, then you do get the guarentee. However, if there are other processes doing links and unlinks in the directories in question at the same time, you are guarenteed nothing. In fact, it's quite likely that a crash will destroy files in those directories that are entirely unrelated to the ongoing file ops in the directory. With softupdates, if you fsync() the descriptor, link() in directory A, fsync() the descriptor again, then unlink() in directory B, the semantics as you described will be guarenteed. No other file operations will screw up the ones you've already fsync()'d to disk. :> (I will mention here that, of course, sendmail and postfix are no better :> in this regard. This is not a detriment to QMail itself verses other :> mailers. Since QMail fsync()'s reasonably, it will be just as reliable :> as other existing MTAs). : :Does sendmail even use fsync()? : :-- :Andre Yes. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:20:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C24E37B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:20:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13512 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 20:17:28 -0000 Message-ID: <3A805C4B.A200EA28@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:19:23 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Dillon Cc: Mike Silbersack , Rik van Riel , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <200102061759.f16Hxv662437@earth.backplane.com> <3A805137.230E0A0D@monzoon.net> <200102061956.f16JuCb65538@earth.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > > : > :This information is in fact correct. Have a look at the FreeBSD link(2) > :man page: > : > :LINK(2) FreeBSD System Calls Manual > :LINK(2) > > Andre, I think there *might* be a dozen people in the world that > understand UFS/FFS better then I do, but none of them have posted to > this thread. > > Believe me when I say that there is no metadata ordering guarentee > in the case of a crash. Yes a standard UFS/FFS will do synchronous > metadata updates for certain operations. No, this does not guarentee > metadata ordering. OK, then I believe you. But please answer me one question: Is the link() call atomically in FFS/UFS w or w/o softupdates? Meaning when the call returns the meta- data is written to stable storage like with fsync()? Only this answer is needed for qmail operation. -- Andre > There has been talk of providing system calls to allow user programs > to request ordering semantics for certain operations, but nobody has > actually implemented anything. Most of the discussion has been centered > on having calls to guarentee file write ordering between a set of > open descriptors for databases. > > As I said, a journaled filesystem can theoretically make metadata > ordering guarentees, but actually doing so creates massive performance > and scaleability issues that aren't apparent until you really start > pounding the filesystem. It *CAN* be done efficiently, but only if > you have a significant amount of non-volatile memory store to hold > the journal. ReiserFS might do it right now, as a side effect, but if > it does it faces serious scaleability issues. > > Softupdates can also theoretically order [meta]data, using dependancies. > It is a very difficult problem to solve and it doesn't do it now. All > softupdates does is guarentee filesystem consistency in the case of a > crash and certain guarentees for what will be crash-recoverable when you > do an fsync(). > > -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:25:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from brutus.conectiva.com.br (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C477E37B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by brutus.conectiva.com.br (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f16KO4H29769; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:24:04 -0200 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:24:04 -0200 (BRDT) From: Rik van Riel X-Sender: riel@duckman.distro.conectiva To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Matt Dillon , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <3A805C4B.A200EA28@monzoon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Andre Oppermann wrote: > But please answer me one question: Is the link() call atomically > in FFS/UFS w or w/o softupdates? Meaning when the call returns > the meta- data is written to stable storage like with fsync()? Since when does `atomic' equal `synchronous' ? regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:30:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F34C037B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:30:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13729 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:27:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 20:27:13 -0000 Message-ID: <3A805E94.8FF4F103@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:29:08 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rik van Riel Cc: Matt Dillon , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rik van Riel wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Andre Oppermann wrote: > > > But please answer me one question: Is the link() call atomically > > in FFS/UFS w or w/o softupdates? Meaning when the call returns > > the meta- data is written to stable storage like with fsync()? > > Since when does `atomic' equal `synchronous' ? Because otherwise it would not be atomically, would it? -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:31:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5E4337B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:30:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f16KRot23065; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:27:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:27:50 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Matt Dillon Cc: Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010206122750.T26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <200102062018.f16KIdx66146@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102062018.f16KIdx66146@earth.backplane.com>; from dillon@earth.backplane.com on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 12:18:39PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Matt Dillon [010206 12:19] wrote: > :> banging on unrelated areas of the filesystem in parallel, and an > :> fsync() of one descriptor would have to wait for the entire filesystem > :> to reach a synchronization point to guarentee metadata update ordering. > :> This creates a serious scaleability issue within a filesystem! > : > :Yes, my understanding of the meaning of "ordered meta-date update" as > :I have grasped it from Terry's rants in the past years is not that all > :meta-data updates on a filesystem have to be done one-after-the-other > :but ordered in respect to each other; That a link() happens before a > :unlink() on the same file. Does this make sense? > > If you link() in directory A and unlink() in directory B, you are not > guarenteed that the link in A will sync to the disk before the unlink > in B with regards to a crash occuring. I dont' think the "link() in directory A" syscall will return until it is sync'd (noasync UFS/FFS)! Therefore the unlink() can't happen unless it's being done by another process. Yes, other activity in the same dir can cause corruption, but meta data updates are done via sync writes that won't return until they are complete. Except for corruption, they are ordered. Since you can't IPC during a syscall reliably (you can't signal before because then you have a race, and you can't signal during because the kernel has a grip on your context) they are ordered when related. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:33:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D64637B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:33:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13838 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:30:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 20:30:24 -0000 Message-ID: <3A805F53.F5CD60D9@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:32:19 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010206121357.S26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:07] wrote: > > > > Yes, my understanding of the meaning of "ordered meta-date update" as > > I have grasped it from Terry's rants in the past years is not that all > > meta-data updates on a filesystem have to be done one-after-the-other > > but ordered in respect to each other; That a link() happens before a > > unlink() on the same file. Does this make sense? > > Only when done by a single process or something waits for the link > to complete before starting the unlink. If two processes "race" > to link and unlink then no. It is just one process waiting for the link() to complete. And then unlink(). After completion a IPC signal is send to another process to pick the file up and continue processing. -- Andre > > > (I will mention here that, of course, sendmail and postfix are no better > > > in this regard. This is not a detriment to QMail itself verses other > > > mailers. Since QMail fsync()'s reasonably, it will be just as reliable > > > as other existing MTAs). > > > > Does sendmail even use fsync()? > > It better. :) > > -- > -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] > "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:35:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from brutus.conectiva.com.br (brutus.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB4537B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:34:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by brutus.conectiva.com.br (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f16KY6630078; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:34:06 -0200 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:34:06 -0200 (BRDT) From: Rik van Riel X-Sender: riel@duckman.distro.conectiva To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Matt Dillon , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <3A805E94.8FF4F103@monzoon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Andre Oppermann wrote: > Rik van Riel wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Andre Oppermann wrote: > > > > > But please answer me one question: Is the link() call atomically > > > in FFS/UFS w or w/o softupdates? Meaning when the call returns > > > the meta- data is written to stable storage like with fsync()? > > > > Since when does `atomic' equal `synchronous' ? > > Because otherwise it would not be atomically, would it? Could you explain to me _why_ you think this is the case ? AFAIK the atomicity means that link() creates the new directory entry and increases the inode usage count atomically, so the programs running on the system never get to see an inconsistent state (and to prevent against an unlink() running while the link() is "in progress"). regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:35:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 310BF37B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f16KX0h23272; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:33:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:33:00 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Rik van Riel , Matt Dillon , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010206123259.U26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <3A805E94.8FF4F103@monzoon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A805E94.8FF4F103@monzoon.net>; from oppermann@monzoon.net on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 09:29:08PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:30] wrote: > Rik van Riel wrote: > > > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Andre Oppermann wrote: > > > > > But please answer me one question: Is the link() call atomically > > > in FFS/UFS w or w/o softupdates? Meaning when the call returns > > > the meta- data is written to stable storage like with fsync()? > > > > Since when does `atomic' equal `synchronous' ? > > Because otherwise it would not be atomically, would it? Softupdates does it atomically but not synchronously. :) Basically, the in-memory view of the filesystem != the on-disk version. The update happens atomically with respect to locking in memory, so running processes never see a non-atomic snapshot of the directory, but if a crash occurs the disk may be several steps behind the memory at the time of the crash. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:39: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from garm.bart.nl (garm.bart.nl [194.158.170.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962E737B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:38:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from daemon.chronias.ninth-circle.org (root@cable.ninth-circle.org [195.38.232.6]) by garm.bart.nl (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f16Kccu85198; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:38:38 +0100 (CET) Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by daemon.chronias.ninth-circle.org (8.11.1/8.11.0) id f16Kc1u95778; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:38:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:38:00 +0100 From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Matt Dillon , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010206213800.B94605@daemon.ninth-circle.org> References: <36088.981481432@critter> <3A804E5D.97BA622C@monzoon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3A804E5D.97BA622C@monzoon.net>; from oppermann@monzoon.net on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 08:19:57PM +0100 Organisation: Ninth-Circle Enterprises Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -On [20010206 20:25], Andre Oppermann (oppermann@monzoon.net) wrote: >> ... provided that qmail calls fsync(2). > >$ cd qmail-ldap/ >$ grep fsync * | wc -l > 21 Of course that says nothing if the fsync()'s are not placed at strategic places. fsync(); fsync(); fsync(); . . . fsync(); And _then_ the disk manipulation routines/functions won't do much good off course. -- Jeroen Ruigrok vd Werven/Asmodai asmodai@[wxs.nl|bart.nl|freebsd.org] Documentation nutter/C-rated Coder BSD: Technical excellence at its best D78D D0AD 244D 1D12 C9CA 7152 035C 1138 546A B867 May you get - not what you deserve - but your heart's desire... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:43: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9024037B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:42:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 14069 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:39:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 20:39:27 -0000 Message-ID: <3A806172.B84B4A69@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:41:22 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Rik van Riel , Matt Dillon , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805E94.8FF4F103@monzoon.net> <20010206123259.U26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:30] wrote: > > Rik van Riel wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Andre Oppermann wrote: > > > > > > > But please answer me one question: Is the link() call atomically > > > > in FFS/UFS w or w/o softupdates? Meaning when the call returns > > > > the meta- data is written to stable storage like with fsync()? > > > > > > Since when does `atomic' equal `synchronous' ? > > > > Because otherwise it would not be atomically, would it? > > Softupdates does it atomically but not synchronously. :) > > Basically, the in-memory view of the filesystem != the on-disk > version. > > The update happens atomically with respect to locking in memory, > so running processes never see a non-atomic snapshot of the directory, > but if a crash occurs the disk may be several steps behind the > memory at the time of the crash. Maybe this explains why DJB recommends against the usage of softupdates... But anyway since qmail does fsync() frequently (which is honored by softupdates) then simply the roll-back/forward would kick in. So following this it should be no problem. Maybe DJB recommends against it because softupdates wasn't perfectly mature until recently (and he uses OpenBSD for his developement which AFAIK lags behind FreeBSD in this respect). -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:43:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0405F37B69C for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:43:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f16KeC123562; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:40:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:40:12 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010206124012.V26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010206121357.S26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <3A805F53.F5CD60D9@monzoon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A805F53.F5CD60D9@monzoon.net>; from oppermann@monzoon.net on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 09:32:19PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:33] wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:07] wrote: > > > > > > Yes, my understanding of the meaning of "ordered meta-date update" as > > > I have grasped it from Terry's rants in the past years is not that all > > > meta-data updates on a filesystem have to be done one-after-the-other > > > but ordered in respect to each other; That a link() happens before a > > > unlink() on the same file. Does this make sense? > > > > Only when done by a single process or something waits for the link > > to complete before starting the unlink. If two processes "race" > > to link and unlink then no. > > It is just one process waiting for the link() to complete. And then > unlink(). After completion a IPC signal is send to another process > to pick the file up and continue processing. Basically, you want a fsync right before the IPC. This should bring the metadata up to date with what's in-core and you should then be safe when you reply with your 250 accepted message. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:58:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CDEB437B698 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:58:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 14721 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:54:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 20:54:50 -0000 Message-ID: <3A80650D.9FA0BCDA@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:56:45 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010206121357.S26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <3A805F53.F5CD60D9@monzoon.net> <20010206124012.V26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:33] wrote: > > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > > > * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:07] wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, my understanding of the meaning of "ordered meta-date update" as > > > > I have grasped it from Terry's rants in the past years is not that all > > > > meta-data updates on a filesystem have to be done one-after-the-other > > > > but ordered in respect to each other; That a link() happens before a > > > > unlink() on the same file. Does this make sense? > > > > > > Only when done by a single process or something waits for the link > > > to complete before starting the unlink. If two processes "race" > > > to link and unlink then no. > > > > It is just one process waiting for the link() to complete. And then > > unlink(). After completion a IPC signal is send to another process > > to pick the file up and continue processing. > > Basically, you want a fsync right before the IPC. This should > bring the metadata up to date with what's in-core and you should > then be safe when you reply with your 250 accepted message. Like this (from qmail-queue): ... if (fsync(intdfd) == -1) die_write(); if (link(intdfn,todofn) == -1) die(66); triggerpull(); die(0); } Actually for initial queueing it doesn't even unlink() but leaves it to the next program. Can't be more safe, can it? Conclusion: Qmail is a very fine and well thought out piece of software and facilitates what the BSD API provides for it's very own purpose... -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 12:58:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from urban.iinet.net.au (urban.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B35337B699 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from elischer.org (reggae-14-23.nv.iinet.net.au [203.59.77.23]) by urban.iinet.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA24604; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 04:57:11 +0800 Message-ID: <3A8056F2.5C6EBC77@elischer.org> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:56:34 -0800 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Andre Oppermann , Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010206121357.S26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > Does sendmail even use fsync()? > > It better. :) since the last time I know of, Kirk and Eric lived in the same building it would seem likely that Eric would know to do that.. > -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 ---> X_.---._/ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 13: 8:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BDDD37B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:08:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f16L68U08880; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:06:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:06:02 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010206130602.X26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010206121357.S26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <3A805F53.F5CD60D9@monzoon.net> <20010206124012.V26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <3A80650D.9FA0BCDA@monzoon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A80650D.9FA0BCDA@monzoon.net>; from oppermann@monzoon.net on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 09:56:45PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:58] wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > Basically, you want a fsync right before the IPC. This should > > bring the metadata up to date with what's in-core and you should > > then be safe when you reply with your 250 accepted message. > > Like this (from qmail-queue): > > ... > if (fsync(intdfd) == -1) die_write(); > > if (link(intdfn,todofn) == -1) die(66); > > triggerpull(); > die(0); > } > > Actually for initial queueing it doesn't even unlink() but leaves > it to the next program. Can't be more safe, can it? Only if you don't need the link() to exist after a crash. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 13:13:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 66AB437B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:13:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 15036 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:09:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.133.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2001 21:09:51 -0000 Message-ID: <3A806892.5DB84D17@monzoon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:11:46 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010206121357.S26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <3A805F53.F5CD60D9@monzoon.net> <20010206124012.V26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <3A80650D.9FA0BCDA@monzoon.net> <20010206130602.X26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:58] wrote: > > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > > > Basically, you want a fsync right before the IPC. This should > > > bring the metadata up to date with what's in-core and you should > > > then be safe when you reply with your 250 accepted message. > > > > Like this (from qmail-queue): > > > > ... > > if (fsync(intdfd) == -1) die_write(); > > > > if (link(intdfn,todofn) == -1) die(66); > > > > triggerpull(); > > die(0); > > } > > > > Actually for initial queueing it doesn't even unlink() but leaves > > it to the next program. Can't be more safe, can it? > > Only if you don't need the link() to exist after a crash. No, I don't. It'll do a roll-forward. -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 13:17:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tigerdyr.lyngbol.dk (tigerdyr.lyngbol.dk [193.162.142.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BBE237B401; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:17:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by tigerdyr.lyngbol.dk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7B7AF98AF; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:17:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:17:04 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Lyngb=F8l?= To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: MRTG like graphs without SNMP: howto. Message-ID: <20010206221704.A77709@tigerdyr.lyngbol.dk> References: <37605.981490598@critter> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <37605.981490598@critter>; from phk@freebsd.org on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 09:16:38PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD/i386 4.2-STABLE X-snotskovl: http://totalportal.snotskovl.dk Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 09:16:38PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > I sat down and hacked a couple of shellscripts to give a basic > graphing of the interface trafic on a FreeBSD box without taking > the detour around SNMP. > > The result is available here: > > http://phk.freebsd.dk/IfTraf/ In addition I've hacked up this perl script to generate graphs from selected data sources from an rrdtool archive: http://tigerdyr.lyngbol.dk/~lyngbol/misc/rrdtool-graph.pl /Michael To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 14:18: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.integratus.com (unknown [63.209.2.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E66A37B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 14:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 6424 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 22:17:40 -0000 Received: from kungfu.integratus.com (HELO integratus.com) (172.20.5.168) by tortuga1.integratus.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 22:17:40 -0000 Message-ID: <3A807803.27999266@integratus.com> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:17:39 -0800 From: Jack Rusher Organization: http://www.integratus.com/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andre Oppermann Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805E94.8FF4F103@monzoon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andre Oppermann wrote: > > > Since when does `atomic' equal `synchronous' ? > > Because otherwise it would not be atomically, would it? I am loath to add to this bloated thread, but... atomic and durable aren't the same thing. This is why A.C.I.D. semantics contain both A & D. The atomicity guarantee concerning rename is meant to suggest that there be no time when the filesystem view contains either both links or no link to the file you are renaming. The operation will either succeed or fail as an atomic unit with regard to the system's view of the filesystem. This DOES NOT mean that the data will be on stable store. -- Jack Rusher, Senior Engineer | mailto:jar@integratus.com Integratus, Inc. | http://www.integratus.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 15:21:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zmsvr04.tais.net (unknown [207.38.102.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C50E637B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:21:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: 3 Stage Boot Issues To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.3 (Intl) 21 March 2000 Message-ID: From: Ramil.Santamaria@tais.toshiba.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:21:13 -0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on zmsvr04/tais_external(Release 5.0.3 (Intl)|21 March 2000) at 02/06/2001 03:21:17 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I would like to contribute! What's the formal process? email: linuxprogrammer@home.com Ramil J.Santamaria Toshiba America Information Systems, Inc Computer Systems Division 50 Parker Irvine, CA 92618 Office: (949) 461-4379 Fax: (949) 837-9047 Fax: (949) 206-3439 Email: ramil.santamaria@tais.toshiba.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 15:23:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [207.154.226.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C314437B491; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 59CEF2B5D7; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:23:14 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:23:14 -0800 From: Paul Saab To: Mike Smith Cc: Luigi Rizzo , freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What is the latest "known-good" PXE build ? Message-ID: <20010206152314.A20757@elvis.mu.org> References: <200102061836.f16IaFl41590@iguana.aciri.org> <200102061850.f16Io9001002@mass.dis.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102061850.f16Io9001002@mass.dis.org>; from msmith@freebsd.org on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 10:50:09AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith (msmith@freebsd.org) wrote: > > > > The BIOS trace says the PXE is revision 2.0, build 68 : is there some other, > > > > perhaps better version of it ? (the on-board NIC on the machine is an fxp) > > > > > > Build 068 is a disaster; you ideally want 082 or later. > > > > is there some standard way to upgrade the pxe code on the cards ? > > in case, where do i get it from ? > > You should be able to get updates from Intel, or if you have access to a > Windows development system you can grab the PXE reference implementation > kit and build your own. You still need the code to drive the nic, and noone gives this out. I have the latest stuff at: http://people.freebsd.org/~ps/pxeroms/ Unfortunately you need windows to extract the files.. I can put up a few more of the files later when I get back from Munich which wont require you to use windows. -- Paul Saab Technical Yahoo paul@mu.org - ps@yahoo-inc.com - ps@freebsd.org Do You .. uhh .. Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 15:45:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relayout1.micronpc.com (meihost.micronpc.com [209.19.139.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5777E37B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:45:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mei00wssout01.micron.com (mei00wssout01.micronpc.com [172.30.41.216]) by relayout1.micronpc.com (2.5 Build 2640 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA16622 for ; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 16:45:06 -0700 Received: from 172.30.41.146 by mei00wssout01.micron.com with ESMTP ( Tumbleweed MMS SMTP Relay(WSS) v4.5); Tue, 06 Feb 2001 16:45:08 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 6b1d535a-5b27-11d3-bf09-00902786a6a3 Received: by imcout1.micronpc.com with Internet Mail Service ( 5.5.2650.21) id <1A9LQFR5>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:45:07 -0700 Message-ID: <8D18712B2604D411A6BB009027F6449801B4B48C@0SEA01EXSRV1> From: "Matt Simerson" To: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: What is the latest "known-good" PXE build ? Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:44:57 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 169E530E584896-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have a "magic floppy" which is nothing more than a DOS boot floppy with the fboot.exe program on it and a BIOS image. This works like a charm for my netbooting purposes: Intel (R) Boot Agent Version 4.0.12 PXE 2.0 Build 082 (Wfm 2.0), RPC v2.7.3 Press Ctrl+S to enter the Setup Menu I've written a rather lengthy document on the process at: http://matt.simerson.net/computing/freebsd.netboot.shtml I also have links to Alfreds PXE Jumpstart guide at http://matt.simerson.net/computing/unix.shtml#freebsd Anyway, that should help you out considerably. If I could legally give away a floppy with WIN-98 MSDOS installed and the fboot.exe program I would but I think doing so violates a software license or two. Matt > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Saab [mailto:paul@mu.org] > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:23 PM > To: Mike Smith > Cc: Luigi Rizzo; freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: What is the latest "known-good" PXE build ? > > > Mike Smith (msmith@freebsd.org) wrote: > > > > > The BIOS trace says the PXE is revision 2.0, build 68 > : is there some other, > > > > > perhaps better version of it ? (the on-board NIC on > the machine is an fxp) > > > > > > > > Build 068 is a disaster; you ideally want 082 or later. > > > > > > is there some standard way to upgrade the pxe code on the cards ? > > > in case, where do i get it from ? > > > > You should be able to get updates from Intel, or if you > have access to a > > Windows development system you can grab the PXE reference > implementation > > kit and build your own. > > You still need the code to drive the nic, and noone gives this out. > > I have the latest stuff at: > http://people.freebsd.org/~ps/pxeroms/ > > Unfortunately you need windows to extract the files.. I can put up > a few more of the files later when I get back from Munich which wont > require you to use windows. > > -- > Paul Saab > Technical Yahoo > paul@mu.org - ps@yahoo-inc.com - ps@freebsd.org > Do You .. uhh .. Yahoo!? > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 16: 2: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-c.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.183.3.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C02B337B65D for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:01:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 15840 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Feb 2001 00:01:33 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 00:01:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:01:33 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Silbersack To: Matt Simerson Cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: What is the latest "known-good" PXE build ? In-Reply-To: <8D18712B2604D411A6BB009027F6449801B4B48C@0SEA01EXSRV1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Matt Simerson wrote: > Anyway, that should help you out considerably. If I could legally give away > a floppy with WIN-98 MSDOS installed and the fboot.exe program I would but I > think doing so violates a software license or two. > > Matt How about using caldera dr-dos (or whatever it's called now?) Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 16:44: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7218637B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:43:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f170hft53139; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:43:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102070043.f170hft53139@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Ramil.Santamaria@tais.toshiba.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3 Stage Boot Issues In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 16:43:41 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ramil.Santamaria@tais.toshiba.com wrote: > I would like to contribute! > > What's the formal process? There isn't one.. Start with the www.freebsd.org site and have a look at the documentation and handbook - there is a how-to-contribute section in there. Have a look at the 3-stage boot code (src/lib/libstand, src/sys/boot/*) in the RELENG_4 branch (for 4.x, aka 4.x-stable) or the -current branch for 5.0. Any major new stuff goes into 5.0, but bugfixes or missing things can be backported to the 4.x tree. Subscribe to the mailing lists. The gnats bug report database is a good source of material for ideas (also on www.freebsd.org). Here and/or the freebsd-current mailing list is the ideal place to talk about what you are or want to do. See also freebsd-arch. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 17:33:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dell.dannyland.org (dell.dannyland.org [64.81.36.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A129037B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:33:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by dell.dannyland.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id BF7335C2C; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:32:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:32:46 -0800 From: dannyman To: Soren Kristensen Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help with PXE boot, install and related... Message-ID: <20010206173246.A69023@dell.dannyland.org> References: <3A7F787A.22139C21@soekris.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <3A7F787A.22139C21@soekris.com>; from soren@soekris.com on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 08:07:22PM -0800 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Indispensible URL for this: http://people.freebsd.org/~alfred/pxe/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 17:52:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [194.222.196.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C15637B491; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:52:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f171o6221006; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 01:50:06 GMT (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f16NUDN00646; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:30:13 GMT (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200102062330.f16NUDN00646@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Julian Elischer Cc: Bruce Evans , Josef Karthauser , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O In-Reply-To: Message from Julian Elischer of "Tue, 06 Feb 2001 07:55:15 PST." <3A801E63.52D2B524@elischer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 23:30:13 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Bruce Evans wrote: > > > > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Josef Karthauser wrote: > > > > > I'm wondering what's changed recently to cause vmware2 running on > > > the linuxemu to lose a lot of performance with disk I/O. > > > > Use of cmpxchg and possibly other SMP pessimizations. > > > > > A couple of weeks ago I could boot win2000 under vmware2 in a matter > > > of minutes; on today's kernel it takes 5 or 10 minutes to boot, > > > and disk I/O is through the roof. > > > > > > Could someone please hit me with a clue-bat :) > > > > Read your freebsd-emulation mail :-). > > You are wrong Bruce, the cmpxchg discussion was regarding why > running FreeBSD as a GUEST OS was slow, because the virtual machine was > very slow at emulating them. That does not explain why Windows2000 and the Boot > loader > both slowed down by a factor or 3->6 over teh last 2 weeks. > > It's even slower to start up, before it has even started any emulation.. > > This feels like the system is massively slowing down page activations or > some other sort of exceptions that are standard for vmware. > > The same vmware with the same guest OS (not been updated) is now much slower. Indeed. I've been doing a ``make build'' on an OpenBSD-current vm for three days (probably about 36 hours excluding suspends) on a 366MHz laptop with a ATA33 disk. This is on a Feb 4 kernel. NetBSD next.... > -- > __--_|\ Julian Elischer > / \ julian@elischer.org > ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 > ---> X_.---._/ > v -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 18:11:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from stox.sa.enteract.com (stox.sa.enteract.com [207.229.132.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF87337B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from stox@localhost) by stox.sa.enteract.com (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f172AiA00467; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 20:10:44 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from stox) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8D18712B2604D411A6BB009027F6449801B4B48C@0SEA01EXSRV1> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:10:44 -0600 (CST) Organization: Imaginary Landscape, LLC. From: "Kenneth P. Stox" To: Matt Simerson Subject: RE: What is the latest "known-good" PXE build ? Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 06-Feb-01 Matt Simerson wrote: > Anyway, that should help you out considerably. If I could legally give away > a floppy with WIN-98 MSDOS installed and the fboot.exe program I would but I > think doing so violates a software license or two. > Have you looked at Free-DOS ? ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Kenneth P. Stox Date: 06-Feb-01 Time: 20:09:38 ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 19:12:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailin7.email.bigpond.com (unknown [139.134.6.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 891C437B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:12:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from areilly.bpc-users.org ([139.134.4.55]) by mailin7.email.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G8DAGG00.9FD for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:17:04 +1000 Received: from CPE-144-132-234-126.nsw.bigpond.net.au ([144.132.234.126]) by mail4.bigpond.com (Claudes-Organized-MailRouter V2.9c 7/7093919); 07 Feb 2001 13:11:42 Received: (qmail 1257 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Feb 2001 03:12:25 -0000 From: "Andrew Reilly" Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:12:25 +1100 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Andre Oppermann , Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010207141225.A769@gurney.reilly.home> References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010206121357.S26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010206121357.S26076@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 12:13:57PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 12:13:57PM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:07] wrote: > > Does sendmail even use fsync()? > > It better. :) Quick grep of the sendmail sources shows most of the six fsync calls protected by a flag (SuperSafe && or nofsync &&). I don't know what circumstances can provoke either of those flags to be zero, but if they can be, then it mightn't be doing any fsyncs. -- Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 20:54:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC90937B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 20:53:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mindspring.com (user-37kas0q.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.112.26]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA16795 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:53:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A80D399.81EC4E6B@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 23:48:26 -0500 From: Ed Gold X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 20:58:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bdr-xcon.matchlogic.com (mail.matchlogic.com [205.216.147.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D147837B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 20:57:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.matchlogic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:57:36 -0700 Message-ID: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F76@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com> From: Charles Randall To: 'Alfred Perlstein' , "Paul D. Schmidt" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: known pthread bug? Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:57:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >From: Alfred Perlstein [mailto:bright@wintelcom.net] > >1) 4.2 RELEASE has known pthreads bugs, you should upgrade to -stable. This is the second time I've seen this mentioned on -hackers. How is a poor, unsuspecting soul^Wdeveloper supposed to know this? Why isn't ERRATA updated to reflect this? Should there be a "Known and acknowledged bugs" section in ERRATA? Charles To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 22: 3:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E4537B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:03:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1763DV15043; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:03:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) To: Charles Randall Cc: "'Alfred Perlstein'" , "Paul D. Schmidt" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: known pthread bug? In-Reply-To: Message from Charles Randall of "Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:57:26 MST." <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F76@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:03:13 -0800 Message-ID: <15039.981525793@winston.osd.bsdi.com> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Why isn't ERRATA updated to reflect this? Should there be a "Known and > acknowledged bugs" section in ERRATA? The entire ERRATA is essentially a section like you describe, it just doesn't always get updated. :-( If any of the CVS committers see an errata-worthy item go by in the repository, they're free to edit www/en/releases/${release}/errata.sgml any time by the way. It's something I've certainly always tried to do when I had the time, but I don't always have the time right now. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 23:30:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mooseriver.com (erie.mooseriver.com [205.166.121.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1DD037B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:29:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f177Tuh79345 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:29:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:29:56 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Interesting Java problem Message-ID: <20010206232956.A79269@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm fooling around with java and have installed the linux port of java 1.3 on a 4.2-STABLE system (last cvsuped and make world on Jan 30). I'm running a very simple java program ; public class HelloWorld { public static void main(String[] args) { System.out.println("Hello World!"); } } It compiles cleanly but when I run it I get ; erie% java HelloWorld Hello World! Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM warning: cannot uninstall alt signal stack erie% Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 4.2 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | www.bafug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 6 23:44:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hand.dotat.at (sfo-gw.covalent.net [207.44.198.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82E8237B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:44:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from fanf by hand.dotat.at with local (Exim 3.20 #3) id 14QPGt-000JSS-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 07:44:11 +0000 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 07:44:11 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CVSup7.FreeBSD.org is back in service Message-ID: <20010207074411.E74296@hand.dotat.at> References: <200101312315.f0VNFwR04246@vashon.polstra.com> <3A79145A.39CF9671@elischer.org> <200102021754.f12Hscu03043@vashon.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200102021754.f12Hscu03043@vashon.polstra.com> Organization: Covalent Technologies, Inc Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra wrote: > >The folks who run the mirrors in Japan have a very nice setup which >uses SNMP to query the number of active CVSup clients on each mirror. >They don't do automatic load balancing with it currently, but they >make some nice graphs available on the web for people to use. (Sorry, >I don't remember the URL.) Looks like Tony. -- f.a.n.finch fanf@covalent.net dot@dotat.at "Dead! And yet there he stands!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 0: 9:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 58D2437B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 00:09:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 42697 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Feb 2001 18:09:10 +1000 X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.12 07-Feb-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/ X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/img/gjb-auug048.gif X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-pgpkey.asc Message-Id: Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:09:10 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Matt Dillon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <200102061759.f16Hxv662437@earth.backplane.com> In-reply-to: <200102061759.f16Hxv662437@earth.backplane.com> of Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:59:57 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > And, I would say, that for any mailer creating and deleting files in > a spool directory at a high rate, *ONLY* a filesystem with softupdates > turned on or a journaling filesystem such as XFS or ReiserFS can be > considered crash-surviveable. Synchronous meta-data updates will not > save you (EXT2FS or FFS without softupdates). It seems to me that you're saying that softupdates is now the recommended way to go -- so why does 4.2-Release still have the dire warnings in /sys/ufs/ffs/README.softupdates? Is that file obsolete, or do the warnings still apply? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 0:17:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (flutter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E9D37B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 00:17:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f178CCB41628; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:12:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Greg Black Cc: Matt Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:09:10 +1000." Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:12:12 +0100 Message-ID: <41626.981533532@critter> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , Greg Black writes: >Matt Dillon wrote: > >> And, I would say, that for any mailer creating and deleting files in >> a spool directory at a high rate, *ONLY* a filesystem with softupdates >> turned on or a journaling filesystem such as XFS or ReiserFS can be >> considered crash-surviveable. Synchronous meta-data updates will not >> save you (EXT2FS or FFS without softupdates). > >It seems to me that you're saying that softupdates is now the >recommended way to go -- so why does 4.2-Release still have the >dire warnings in /sys/ufs/ffs/README.softupdates? Is that file >obsolete, or do the warnings still apply? I think that file is obsolete by now. I also think we should make newfs turn softupdates on by default in -current. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 1:38:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from exchange.universe.dart.spb (unknown [195.131.27.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49A6537B503 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 01:37:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from runnet-gw.marketsite.ru (WILD [192.168.1.24]) by exchange.universe.dart.spb with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id D7WJ7QQT; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:37:59 +0300 Content-Length: 29 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:43:00 +0300 (MSK) Reply-To: diwil@dataart.com From: Dmitry Dicky To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: unsubscribe freebsd-hackers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG unsubscribe freebsd-hackers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 1:49: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37E7737B684 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 01:48:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 14QRDU-0002lF-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:48:48 +0000 Received: (from rasputin@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f179mmY57665 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:48:48 GMT (envelope-from rasputin) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:48:44 +0000 From: Rasputin To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Interesting Java problem Message-ID: <20010207094843.A57544@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010206232956.A79269@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20010206232956.A79269@mooseriver.com>; from jgrosch@mooseriver.com on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 11:29:56PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Josef Grosch [010207 07:31]: > I'm fooling around with java and have installed the linux port of java 1.3 > on a 4.2-STABLE system (last cvsuped and make world on Jan 30). I'm running > a very simple java program ; > It compiles cleanly but when I run it I get ; > > erie% java HelloWorld > Hello World! > Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM warning: cannot uninstall alt signal stack > erie% Try diasabling Hotspot - STR Linux JDK1.3 has problems in that respect. Looking over the freebsd-java mailing list archives and http://www.freebsd.org/java/ will probably help. -- Rasputin Jack of All Trades :: Master of Nuns To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 1:55:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from exchange.universe.dart.spb (unknown [195.131.27.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ADBF37B69C for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 01:55:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from runnet-gw.marketsite.ru (WILD [192.168.1.24]) by exchange.universe.dart.spb with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id D7WJ7QT3; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:55:31 +0300 Content-Length: 28 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010207094843.A57544@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 13:00:32 +0300 (MSK) Reply-To: diwil@dataart.com From: Dmitry Dicky To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG unsubscribe freebsd-hackers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 2:20:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nebula.cybercable.fr (d217.dhcp212-126.cybercable.fr [212.198.126.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA33F37B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 02:19:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mux@localhost) by nebula.cybercable.fr (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f17AJrG00811; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:19:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mux) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:19:52 +0100 From: Maxime Henrion To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Matt Dillon , Greg Black Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010207111952.B484@nebula.cybercable.fr> References: <41626.981533532@critter> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <41626.981533532@critter>; from phk@critter.freebsd.dk on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 09:12:12AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message , Greg Black writes: > >Matt Dillon wrote: > > > >It seems to me that you're saying that softupdates is now the > >recommended way to go -- so why does 4.2-Release still have the > >dire warnings in /sys/ufs/ffs/README.softupdates? Is that file > >obsolete, or do the warnings still apply? > > I think that file is obsolete by now. > > I also think we should make newfs turn softupdates on by default in > -current. What do you think of what NetBSD implemented ? softupdates is now enabled via a mount option. This seems cleaner than the tunefs -n enable thing. Maxime -- Don't be fooled by cheap finnish imitations ; BSD is the One True Code Key fingerprint = F9B6 1D5A 4963 331C 88FC CA6A AB50 1EF2 8CBE 99D6 Public Key : http://www.epita.fr/~henrio_m/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 3: 6:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hand.dotat.at (sfo-gw.covalent.net [207.44.198.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B7D37B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 03:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from fanf by hand.dotat.at with local (Exim 3.20 #3) id 14QSMS-000JFa-00; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:02:08 +0000 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:02:08 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> Organization: Covalent Technologies, Inc Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andre Oppermann wrote: > >Qmail has a couple of directories for the different states a queued >message goes through. The whole queue structure is required to be on >the same partition/disk. After the completing of each step in the queue >it is moved through the use of link() and then unlink() to the next >directory. Why not just use rename(2)? To protect against the new filename already existing? Tony. -- f.a.n.finch fanf@covalent.net dot@dotat.at GERMAN BIGHT HUMBER THAMES DOVER WIGHT PORTLAND PLYMOUTH: SOUTHWEST 5 TO 7 DECREASING 4, BECOMING CYCLONIC LATER. RAIN LATER. GOOD, BECOMING MODERATE OCCASIONALLY POOR LATER. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 3:16:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [207.154.226.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA7437B4EC; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 03:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 528892B28B; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:16:37 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 03:16:37 -0800 From: Paul Saab To: Danny Braniss Cc: John Baldwin , Terry Lambert , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Really odd "BTX halted" problem booting - PXE/diskless Message-ID: <20010207031637.A32676@elvis.mu.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from danny@cs.huji.ac.il on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 09:51:01AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It its the bios disk probe that is causing the machine to fault. I suppose you really dont need to probe the disks when you are netbooting. Danny Braniss (danny@cs.huji.ac.il) wrote: > im now being bitten by this one, but with a twist: > on a compaq deskpro workstation it's ok > on a dell-precision 420, it bombs. > both bioses are configured to boot via the network/pxe. > > im using the same disks for both boxes. > > i labeled the disks with: > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rda0 bs=1k count=1 > disklabel -Brw da0 auto > > i then went ahead an played with vinum, all went fine on the Compaq, > i then wanted to do some comparisons, so i hooked up the disks to the Dell > and now BTX bombs. > > is there a way, that when booting from the net, btx ignores the mbr/fdisk info? > > danny > ps: im looking into the btx stuff, but will take me some time to remeber > assembler :-) > > In message you write: > } > }On 28-Oct-00 Matt Dillon wrote: > }>:> # optional dd if you are paranoid > }>:> # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/da0 bs=32k count=4 > }>:> fdisk -I da0 > }>:> disklabel -w -r da0s1 auto > }>:> > }>:> That's much preferable to having to use sysinstall if all you want to > }>:> do is initialize a label on a slice. > }>: > }>:Yes, this is definitely the desired behavior. > }>: > }>:-- > }>: > }>:John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ > }> > }> John, can you explain how the MBR bootstraps a slice? Should I make > }> disklabel zero-out the fdisk partition table area in the slice rather > }> then installing the dummy fdisk partition table? That is, for the > }> case where -B is used on a slice (da0s1) verses on the whole-disk (da0)? > } > }Just ignore the slice table within a slice. It is only used when boot1 > }is splatted over top of the MBR for the dangerously dedicated mode. It is > }unused and ignored otherwise. > } > }> -Matt > } > }-- > } > }John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ > }PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc > }"Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Paul Saab Technical Yahoo paul@mu.org - ps@yahoo-inc.com - ps@freebsd.org Do You .. uhh .. Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 3:26: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ADB9937B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 03:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 43920 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Feb 2001 21:25:09 +1000 X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.12 07-Feb-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/ X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/img/gjb-auug048.gif X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-pgpkey.asc Message-Id: Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 21:25:09 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Tony Finch Cc: Andre Oppermann , Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> In-reply-to: <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> of Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:02:08 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tony Finch wrote: > Why not just use rename(2)? To protect against the new filename > already existing? Why not just read the man page for rename(2) before making suggestions? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 3:44:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (flutter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D90437B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 03:44:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f17Bi5H00763; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:44:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Maxime Henrion Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Matt Dillon , Greg Black Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:19:52 +0100." <20010207111952.B484@nebula.cybercable.fr> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:44:05 +0100 Message-ID: <761.981546245@critter> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010207111952.B484@nebula.cybercable.fr>, Maxime Henrion writes: >What do you think of what NetBSD implemented ? softupdates is now enabled via >a mount option. This seems cleaner than the tunefs -n enable thing. I have never understood why it was a tunefs thing... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 5:13: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E72237B491 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:12:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f17DCHt59672; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:12:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102071312.f17DCHt59672@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Maxime Henrion , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Matt Dillon , Greg Black Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <761.981546245@critter> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 05:12:17 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20010207111952.B484@nebula.cybercable.fr>, Maxime Henrion writes: > > > >What do you think of what NetBSD implemented ? softupdates is now enabled vi a > >a mount option. This seems cleaner than the tunefs -n enable thing. > > I have never understood why it was a tunefs thing... So that fsck(8) can see what mode the FS *was* mounted in last time. That bears no relationship to fstab or the current options. To do a mount option for fstab, it needs to be preserved in the superblock and fsck check the superblock for deciding whether to run in softupdates mode. At mount time, the mount flag can be propagated to the superblock for the 'next' fsck. This means you can turn softdep on/off in fstab and get it to DWIM, and still have fsck know what it needs to know. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 5:15:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (flutter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356F737B491 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f17DF7H01194; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:15:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Peter Wemm Cc: Maxime Henrion , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Matt Dillon , Greg Black Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Feb 2001 05:12:17 PST." <200102071312.f17DCHt59672@mobile.wemm.org> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:15:07 +0100 Message-ID: <1192.981551707@critter> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200102071312.f17DCHt59672@mobile.wemm.org>, Peter Wemm writes: >Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> In message <20010207111952.B484@nebula.cybercable.fr>, Maxime Henrion writes: >> >> >> >What do you think of what NetBSD implemented ? softupdates is now enabled vi > a >> >a mount option. This seems cleaner than the tunefs -n enable thing. >> >> I have never understood why it was a tunefs thing... > >So that fsck(8) can see what mode the FS *was* mounted in last time. That >bears no relationship to fstab or the current options. Right, so if mounting in softupdates mode updates the superblock to set the softupdates flag, why wouldn't that work ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 5:21:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mobile.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAE4237B4EC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:20:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mobile.wemm.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f17DKZt59823; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:20:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <200102071320.f17DKZt59823@mobile.wemm.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Maxime Henrion , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Matt Dillon , Greg Black Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <1192.981551707@critter> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 05:20:35 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <200102071312.f17DCHt59672@mobile.wemm.org>, Peter Wemm writes: > >Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> In message <20010207111952.B484@nebula.cybercable.fr>, Maxime Henrion writ es: > >> > >> > >> >What do you think of what NetBSD implemented ? softupdates is now enabled vi > > a > >> >a mount option. This seems cleaner than the tunefs -n enable thing. > >> > >> I have never understood why it was a tunefs thing... > > > >So that fsck(8) can see what mode the FS *was* mounted in last time. That > >bears no relationship to fstab or the current options. > > Right, so if mounting in softupdates mode updates the superblock to > set the softupdates flag, why wouldn't that work ? It would work fine, but Kirk told me not to bother submitting patches because he had something else in mind (or at least, that's the way I interpreted the mail). Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 5:53:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nettoll.com (matrix.nettoll.net [212.155.143.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5038F37B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:52:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by smtp.nettoll.com; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:34:14 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <4.3.0.20010207142937.045be410@pop.free.fr> X-Sender: usebsd@pop.free.fr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:34:27 +0100 To: Greg Black , Tony Finch From: mouss Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Cc: Andre Oppermann , Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 21:25 07/02/01 +1000, Greg Black wrote: >Tony Finch wrote: > > > Why not just use rename(2)? To protect against the new filename > > already existing? > >Why not just read the man page for rename(2) before making >suggestions? I find nothing convincing in the manpage. Could you please tell what I am missing. - both rename and link require the files to be on the fs - both rename and the link/unlink guarantee the existence of the file whatever happens so what's the motivation except old heritage of possibly broken rename()? or is it just because qmail developper have seen that in the fwtk code? regards, mouss To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 6:13:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (pool57-tch-1.Sofia.0rbitel.net [212.95.170.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B897737B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 06:13:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 15634 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Feb 2001 14:11:27 -0000 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:11:27 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: Ed Gold Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: unsubscribe Message-ID: <20010207161127.J487@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Ed Gold , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <3A80D399.81EC4E6B@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A80D399.81EC4E6B@mindspring.com>; from edgold@mindspring.com on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 11:48:26PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 11:48:26PM -0500, Ed Gold wrote: > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message This would work better if you actually read the mails you're receiving, and send the update request to majordomo@FreeBSD.org, not to the list :) G'luck, Peter -- .siht ekil ti gnidaer eb d'uoy ,werbeH ni erew ecnetnes siht fI To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 6:14: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (pool57-tch-1.Sofia.0rbitel.net [212.95.170.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F24C537B4EC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 06:13:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 15646 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Feb 2001 14:12:01 -0000 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:12:01 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: Dmitry Dicky Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: unsubscribe freebsd-hackers Message-ID: <20010207161201.K487@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Dmitry Dicky , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from diwil@dataart.com on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 12:43:00PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 12:43:00PM +0300, Dmitry Dicky wrote: > unsubscribe freebsd-hackers > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message This would work better if you actually read the mails you are receiving, and send the request to majordomo@FreeBSD.org, not to the list itself :) G'luck, Peter -- If the meanings of 'true' and 'false' were switched, then this sentence wouldn't be false. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 7:46:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4784537B491 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 07:46:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.11.1/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f17FkU888386; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:46:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <200102071546.f17FkU888386@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Nick Rogness Cc: milunovic , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Image-URL: http://www.transsys.com/louie/images/louie-mail.jpg From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: echo request deny References: In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 2001 12:23:27 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:46:30 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, milunovic wrote: > > > Is there anyway to deny echo request on FreeBSD (except ipfw add deny > > icmp from any to any) ? > > On Linux It was simple,just echo 1>/proc/.../icmp_echo_request > > If you just want to block echo_requests and don't want to > block any other ICMP why not use ipfw? > > ipfw add 1000 deny icmp from any to any in via xl0 icmptypes 8 > > This will still allow other icmp to work...so why not use it? Yes, indeed. Just blocking all of ICMP will cause things like Path MTU discovery to fail. louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 11:24:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0303A37B491 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:24:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA63814; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:24:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Matthew Luckie Cc: Subject: Re: syscall kernel modules on 3.0-release References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 07 Feb 2001 20:24:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: Matthew Luckie's message of "Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:11:58 -0800 (PST)" Message-ID: Lines: 33 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Luckie writes: > I have written a KLD module that implements a syscall > I wrote this module on 3.2-release, although this module is going to be > used on a 3.0-release machine Don't run 3.0. > Is it possible for me to hack my kernel module to work on freebsd > 3.0-release? Don't run 3.0. > So my question is, is it possible for me to hack my kernel module to work > on FreeBSD 3.0-release? Don't run 3.0. Even when released, 3.0 was not meant for production use, or in fact any use at all except by developers and those interested in helping out debugging RELENG_3 so we would one day be able to call it -STABLE. It's quite conceivably the most buggy and incomplete FreeBSD release ever. So allow me to repeat my advice: Don't run 3.0. In fact, don't run any kind of 3.x at all, since we stopped fixing bugs (except for some, but not all, known security holes) about half a year ago. If you absolutely must run RELENG_3, don't run anything but the very latest 3.5-STABLE (cvsup and cvs are your friends). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 11:26:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56D837B67D; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:26:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA63833; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:26:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Brian Somers Cc: Julian Elischer , Bruce Evans , Josef Karthauser , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O References: <200102062330.f16NUDN00646@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 07 Feb 2001 20:26:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: Brian Somers's message of "Tue, 06 Feb 2001 23:30:13 +0000" Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Somers writes: > Indeed. I've been doing a ``make build'' on an OpenBSD-current vm > for three days (probably about 36 hours excluding suspends) on a > 366MHz laptop with a ATA33 disk. Would it be possible for someone experiencing this slowdown to try to narrow down the day (or even the week) on which it occurred? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 11:36:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from postal.sdsc.edu (postal.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D29F537B67D for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from multivac.sdsc.edu (multivac.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.57]) by postal.sdsc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/SDSCserver-16) with ESMTP id LAA18047; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:36:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by multivac (8.9.3+Sun/1.11-SolarisClient) with ESMTP id LAA25633; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:36:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:36:10 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Luckie To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Subject: Re: syscall kernel modules on 3.0-release In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks for this. For what its worth: I have made the kernel module work with 3.0-release using the LKM interface instead, calling the MOD_SYSCALL wrapper (or whatever its called, can't remember). the examples of writing and calling an lkm syscall probably reflect the lkm interface itself. I was cursing the ioctl calls i was making to /dev/lkm to search the loaded modules for the one I loaded just to get the offset. does modfind work for LKM's in 3.0-release? I completely understand your plea to not use 3.0 release. I am personally using 4.2-stable. Its not my decision to use 3.0 I beleive the computers running 3.0 have been running it for several years now - i.e. it was the latest available at the time. On 7 Feb 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Matthew Luckie writes: > > I have written a KLD module that implements a syscall > > I wrote this module on 3.2-release, although this module is going to be > > used on a 3.0-release machine > > Don't run 3.0. > > > Is it possible for me to hack my kernel module to work on freebsd > > 3.0-release? > > Don't run 3.0. > > > So my question is, is it possible for me to hack my kernel module to work > > on FreeBSD 3.0-release? > > Don't run 3.0. > > Even when released, 3.0 was not meant for production use, or in fact > any use at all except by developers and those interested in helping > out debugging RELENG_3 so we would one day be able to call it -STABLE. > It's quite conceivably the most buggy and incomplete FreeBSD release > ever. So allow me to repeat my advice: > > Don't run 3.0. > > In fact, don't run any kind of 3.x at all, since we stopped fixing > bugs (except for some, but not all, known security holes) about half a > year ago. If you absolutely must run RELENG_3, don't run anything but > the very latest 3.5-STABLE (cvsup and cvs are your friends). > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 11:53:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2340837B65D for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:53:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA63920; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:53:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Matthew Luckie Cc: Subject: Re: syscall kernel modules on 3.0-release References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 07 Feb 2001 20:53:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: Matthew Luckie's message of "Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:36:10 -0800 (PST)" Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Luckie writes: > I completely understand your plea to not use 3.0 release. > I am personally using 4.2-stable. Its not my decision to use 3.0 > I beleive the computers running 3.0 have been running it for several years > now - i.e. it was the latest available at the time. Well, it was a stupid decision at that time, and the decision not to upgrade or replace these machines now is even stupider. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 12:54:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [194.242.131.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF06737B491; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:54:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 07B4A31FE; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:54:20 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:54:20 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Brian Somers , Julian Elischer , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O Message-ID: <20010207205420.C1656@tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Julian Elischer , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200102062330.f16NUDN00646@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NklN7DEeGtkPCoo3" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 08:26:15PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --NklN7DEeGtkPCoo3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 08:26:15PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Brian Somers writes: > > Indeed. I've been doing a ``make build'' on an OpenBSD-current vm=20 > > for three days (probably about 36 hours excluding suspends) on a=20 > > 366MHz laptop with a ATA33 disk. >=20 > Would it be possible for someone experiencing this slowdown to try to > narrow down the day (or even the week) on which it occurred? I'll compile up a couple of kernels and see if I can hone it down. Joe --NklN7DEeGtkPCoo3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjqBtfwACgkQXVIcjOaxUBb8MACdFdr0tweLa8LLOEGgT0DAB2gf fQUAni2uorGEGJNM34Y38zbYuFzsm+Ky =wz/e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NklN7DEeGtkPCoo3-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 12:56:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [194.242.131.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7F1A37B491; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:56:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 6F8FE326F; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:56:14 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:56:14 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Brian Somers , Julian Elischer , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O Message-ID: <20010207205614.D1656@tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Julian Elischer , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200102062330.f16NUDN00646@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cPi+lWm09sJ+d57q" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 08:26:15PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --cPi+lWm09sJ+d57q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 08:26:15PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Brian Somers writes: > > Indeed. I've been doing a ``make build'' on an OpenBSD-current vm=20 > > for three days (probably about 36 hours excluding suspends) on a=20 > > 366MHz laptop with a ATA33 disk. >=20 > Would it be possible for someone experiencing this slowdown to try to > narrow down the day (or even the week) on which it occurred? As I think about it it was definitity working before the symbol changes in libc/libc_r changed. Was that last week? No probably the week before. It was working fine last week, but I'm not sure which day's I updated the kernel. I'll try some builds. Joe --cPi+lWm09sJ+d57q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjqBtm0ACgkQXVIcjOaxUBb4WgCeLZkI/Hmxn4Vs6KDJKX7KaCRj cP4An0wTO38MpezN7Gmwul+YMflBYytI =E5Lz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cPi+lWm09sJ+d57q-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 13: 6: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A34B637B4EC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:05:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 51573 invoked by uid 1001); 8 Feb 2001 07:05:45 +1000 X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.12 07-Feb-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/ X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/img/gjb-auug048.gif X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-pgpkey.asc Message-Id: Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 07:05:45 +1000 From: Greg Black To: mouss Cc: Tony Finch , Andre Oppermann , Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> <4.3.0.20010207142937.045be410@pop.free.fr> In-reply-to: <4.3.0.20010207142937.045be410@pop.free.fr> of Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:34:27 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG mouss wrote: > At 21:25 07/02/01 +1000, Greg Black wrote: > >Tony Finch wrote: > > > > > Why not just use rename(2)? To protect against the new filename > > > already existing? > > > >Why not just read the man page for rename(2) before making > >suggestions? > > I find nothing convincing in the manpage. Could you please tell > what I am missing. Read the man page, and concentrate on the second sentence under the Description heading. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 13:17:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 97B7037B67D for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:17:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 4163 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Feb 2001 21:16:44 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:16:44 -0000 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:16:44 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Andrew Reilly Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <20010207141225.A769@gurney.reilly.home> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I went over to postfix to see if it did better.....in fact it did on freebsd but still same problem with I/O. SOlution from talking to some people late last night would be to add another harddrive and stripe it with another drive using vinum. As you all know IDE does not do multitasking unlike scsi. My question is this vinum product...i beleive the superceder of ccd....taking another harddrive and striping it with the root ide drive would in theory destroy all contents of first IDE? Or can this volume manager take say a partition of first ide drive and made to work with another ide drive? Trying to figure out at this point whether concept is 2 other drives striped together say..using raid 0 or I can get away with just one other one. Thx in advance. ps. 600 megs of email was calculated in 1 day on this machine...today i will be splitting up the load and looking into vinum. Regards, Dan On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Andrew Reilly wrote: > Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:12:25 +1100 > From: Andrew Reilly > To: Alfred Perlstein > Cc: Andre Oppermann , > Matt Dillon , > Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , > Poul-Henning Kamp , > Charles Randall , > Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) > > On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 12:13:57PM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:07] wrote: > > > Does sendmail even use fsync()? > > > > It better. :) > > Quick grep of the sendmail sources shows most of the six fsync > calls protected by a flag (SuperSafe && or nofsync &&). I don't > know what circumstances can provoke either of those flags to be > zero, but if they can be, then it mightn't be doing any fsyncs. > > -- > Andrew > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 13:31:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFA3B37B503 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:31:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f17LVQv94265; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:31:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:31:26 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102072131.f17LVQv94265@earth.backplane.com> To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, that's a jump. You never said how bumping maxusers went! However, we have finally gotten a clue to how much mail you are pushing.. 600MB in a day. That sure doesn't sound like something I would want to run a machine with an IDE drive. Why not just buy one of those supercool 2U VALINUX boxes (they can run FreeBSD as easily as Linux) and stuff two or three SCSI disks into it? The disk activity we are seeing here, assuming the file descriptor and network issues have been fixed, can only be from the mail traffic and the fsync() calls the MTA makes. It's beginning to sound unavoidable, and I'm not sure how the linux box could possibly have done better short of them not implementing the fsync() system call. In anycase, while VINUM is great for striping disks I recommend that you use CCD to begin with, because CCD is a whole lot less complex. You can stripe IDE drives but the two drives must be on different IDE controllers (not just primary secondary, but each drive must be primary on its own controller). Then striping will help. Of course, I would not recommend using IDE at all if you are pushing 600MB/day in mail. You really should be using a SCSI based system... something like the VALINUX boxes (running either Linux or FreeBSD). I am still interested in mail transfer rate numbers for what you were doing on the Linux box verses what you are doing now. With that much mail, even a few hours of downtime can create a huge backlog. I am not entirely convinced that you aren't seeing the backlog but without more information (do you have aggregate statistics from your mail logs for the last few months, for example?), it's hard to diagnose. -Matt :I went over to postfix to see if it did better.....in fact it did on :freebsd but still same problem with I/O. SOlution from talking to some :people late last night would be to add another harddrive and stripe it :with another drive using vinum. As you all know IDE does not do :multitasking unlike scsi. My question is this vinum product...i beleive :the superceder of ccd....taking another harddrive and striping it with the :root ide drive would in theory destroy all contents of first IDE? :Or can this volume manager take say a partition of first ide drive and :made to work with another ide drive? Trying to figure out at this point :whether concept is 2 other drives striped together say..using raid 0 or :I can get away with just one other one. Thx in advance. : :ps. 600 megs of email was calculated in 1 day on this machine...today i :will be splitting up the load and looking into vinum. : :Regards, : :Dan : : :On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Andrew Reilly wrote: : :> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:12:25 +1100 :> From: Andrew Reilly :> To: Alfred Perlstein :> Cc: Andre Oppermann , :> Matt Dillon , :> Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , :> Poul-Henning Kamp , :> Charles Randall , :> Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , :> freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG :> Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) :> :> On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 12:13:57PM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: :> > * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:07] wrote: :> > > Does sendmail even use fsync()? :> > :> > It better. :) :> :> Quick grep of the sendmail sources shows most of the six fsync :> calls protected by a flag (SuperSafe && or nofsync &&). I don't :> know what circumstances can provoke either of those flags to be :> zero, but if they can be, then it mightn't be doing any fsyncs. :> :> -- :> Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 13:42:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EEDD337B6A9 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:41:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 16186 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Feb 2001 21:41:29 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:41:29 -0000 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:41:29 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Matt Dillon Cc: Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <200102072131.f17LVQv94265@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yes maxusers stopped the dmesg errors....it seemed. Only thing I do not like to much about postfix is that it only tries one MX record and then does not try any others...."default"....yes there is still backlog with #'s I gave you. Right now 8 min to get an email from sending...I have another machine here still with qmail on it....going to try to evenly distribute the mail between them and see how it goes. I cannot get you stats from linux box because i wiped it out with freebsd....I will do everything in my power to keep this box freebsd. Why qmail and linux was handling the load I will never know now but regardless.....with 600 megs being pushed a day with all that included backlog .....how many megs do you think one ide drive can handle will be the biggest question to tackle over next few days. here are some stats from postfix: Grand Totals ------------ messages 230935 received 207928 delivered 2 forwarded 6463 deferred (26561 deferrals) 12780 bounced 20 rejected 672m bytes received 641m bytes delivered 622 senders 399 sending hosts/domains 128216 recipients 21502 recipient hosts/domains smtpd 109731 connections 14 hosts/domains 5 avg. connect time (seconds) 143:18:25 total connect time Per-Hour Traffic Summary time received delivered deferred bounced rejected -------------------------------------------------------------------- 0000-0100 9788 9514 373 430 5 0100-0200 5800 5782 374 352 1 0200-0300 6438 6951 553 361 0 0300-0400 11497 10192 591 420 0 0400-0500 10431 10330 722 492 0 0500-0600 10709 11525 911 591 1 0600-0700 10551 10234 1030 604 3 0700-0800 10952 10231 1035 540 0 0800-0900 12691 9925 922 452 2 0900-1000 12174 12354 1205 645 2 1000-1100 13884 10220 837 465 1 1100-1200 10891 12310 1277 603 0 1200-1300 11661 11210 1402 581 3 1300-1400 11102 11019 1094 1323 1 1400-1500 10822 11027 1669 917 0 1500-1600 12271 9723 1329 752 0 1600-1700 11255 9443 2538 488 0 1700-1800 7160 15538 2206 1073 0 1800-1900 12468 5883 1825 548 1 1900-2000 13329 5737 2303 480 0 2000-2100 11220 7286 1685 543 0 2100-2200 3841 1494 680 120 0 2200-2300 0 0 0 0 0 2300-2400 0 0 0 0 0 hope that helps :) btw ccd requires 2 other drives am i correct? So i just remove /var/ basically from fstab ...raid0 2 drives together and mount that as var...is my basic understanding. of course of 2 separate controllers......I still don;t see why that matters whether they are on separate controllers or not but my guess has to do with IDE unable to multitask idea.....which is leading me to think that means down one controller? On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:31:26 -0800 (PST) > From: Matt Dillon > To: Dan Phoenix > Cc: Andrew Reilly , > Alfred Perlstein , > Andre Oppermann , > Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , > Poul-Henning Kamp , > Charles Randall , Jos Backus , > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) > > Well, that's a jump. You never said how bumping maxusers went! > > However, we have finally gotten a clue to how much mail you are pushing.. > 600MB in a day. That sure doesn't sound like something I would want > to run a machine with an IDE drive. Why not just buy one of those > supercool 2U VALINUX boxes (they can run FreeBSD as easily as Linux) > and stuff two or three SCSI disks into it? > > The disk activity we are seeing here, assuming the file descriptor and > network issues have been fixed, can only be from the mail traffic and > the fsync() calls the MTA makes. It's beginning to sound unavoidable, > and I'm not sure how the linux box could possibly have done better > short of them not implementing the fsync() system call. > > In anycase, while VINUM is great for striping disks I recommend that > you use CCD to begin with, because CCD is a whole lot less complex. > You can stripe IDE drives but the two drives must be on different IDE > controllers (not just primary secondary, but each drive must be primary > on its own controller). Then striping will help. > > Of course, I would not recommend using IDE at all if you are pushing > 600MB/day in mail. You really should be using a SCSI based system... > something like the VALINUX boxes (running either Linux or FreeBSD). > > I am still interested in mail transfer rate numbers for what you were > doing on the Linux box verses what you are doing now. With that much > mail, even a few hours of downtime can create a huge backlog. I am > not entirely convinced that you aren't seeing the backlog but without > more information (do you have aggregate statistics from your mail logs > for the last few months, for example?), it's hard to diagnose. > > -Matt > > :I went over to postfix to see if it did better.....in fact it did on > :freebsd but still same problem with I/O. SOlution from talking to some > :people late last night would be to add another harddrive and stripe it > :with another drive using vinum. As you all know IDE does not do > :multitasking unlike scsi. My question is this vinum product...i beleive > :the superceder of ccd....taking another harddrive and striping it with the > :root ide drive would in theory destroy all contents of first IDE? > :Or can this volume manager take say a partition of first ide drive and > :made to work with another ide drive? Trying to figure out at this point > :whether concept is 2 other drives striped together say..using raid 0 or > :I can get away with just one other one. Thx in advance. > : > :ps. 600 megs of email was calculated in 1 day on this machine...today i > :will be splitting up the load and looking into vinum. > : > :Regards, > : > :Dan > : > : > :On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Andrew Reilly wrote: > : > :> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:12:25 +1100 > :> From: Andrew Reilly > :> To: Alfred Perlstein > :> Cc: Andre Oppermann , > :> Matt Dillon , > :> Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , > :> Poul-Henning Kamp , > :> Charles Randall , > :> Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , > :> freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > :> Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) > :> > :> On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 12:13:57PM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > :> > * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:07] wrote: > :> > > Does sendmail even use fsync()? > :> > > :> > It better. :) > :> > :> Quick grep of the sendmail sources shows most of the six fsync > :> calls protected by a flag (SuperSafe && or nofsync &&). I don't > :> know what circumstances can provoke either of those flags to be > :> zero, but if they can be, then it mightn't be doing any fsyncs. > :> > :> -- > :> Andrew > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 15: 9:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAE8B37B6C3 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:08:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f17N8h201847; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:08:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:08:43 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Matt Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010207150843.R26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200102072131.f17LVQv94265@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dphoenix@bravenet.com on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:41:29PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Dan Phoenix [010207 13:42] wrote: > > > Yes maxusers stopped the dmesg errors....it seemed. Only thing I do not > like to much about postfix is that it only tries one MX record and then > does not try any others...."default"....yes there is still backlog with > #'s I gave you. Right now 8 min to get an email from sending... I don't think Matt means 'backlog' as in latency, I think he means backlog as in your backup MX's queing mail for you while you rebooted and installed FreeBSD. If you have that much mail _incoming_ then every time you sneeze and stop processing the queue even for a few seconds you can suddenly wind up with a massive amount of inocming mail the second your server comes online again. This will swamp you and knock the box over. > > :ps. 600 megs of email was calculated in 1 day on this machine...today i > > :will be splitting up the load and looking into vinum. Get a hardware raid card, you can even get a bootable IDE RAID, although hotswap scsi means less downtime. For a project this big you're really being pretty thrifty with the hardware allocated to it. The time you save hacking on the system to fix performance problems could be addressed much quicker by buying somewhat more robust hardware, once that's addressed you can move on to the next project. IDE raid (striping) won't cost more than three to five hundred dollars including the disks you need. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 15:13:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [194.242.131.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0885137B6C6; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:13:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id D53AF311F; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:13:06 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:13:06 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Brian Somers , Julian Elischer , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O Message-ID: <20010207231306.B972@tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Julian Elischer , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <200102062330.f16NUDN00646@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> <20010207205614.D1656@tao.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rJwd6BRFiFCcLxzm" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010207205614.D1656@tao.org.uk>; from joe@tao.org.uk on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 08:56:14PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --rJwd6BRFiFCcLxzm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 08:56:14PM +0000, Josef Karthauser wrote: > On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 08:26:15PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Brian Somers writes: > > > Indeed. I've been doing a ``make build'' on an OpenBSD-current vm=20 > > > for three days (probably about 36 hours excluding suspends) on a=20 > > > 366MHz laptop with a ATA33 disk. > >=20 > > Would it be possible for someone experiencing this slowdown to try to > > narrow down the day (or even the week) on which it occurred? >=20 > As I think about it it was definitity working before the symbol changes > in libc/libc_r changed. Was that last week? No probably the week > before. It was working fine last week, but I'm not sure which day's I > updated the kernel. >=20 > I'll try some builds. Ok. The problem definitely began between -D2001-01-29 and -D2001-01-30. I'll try and binary chop to workout what caused it. Joe --rJwd6BRFiFCcLxzm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjqB1oEACgkQXVIcjOaxUBZmLACdFs5Z49cd+aK5jsWqtNO+hj/8 U+UAoKFW6ho76jA2Q5GiNKJHY0s5eCZf =a5nW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rJwd6BRFiFCcLxzm-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 15:20:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB8E37B65D for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:20:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f17NGlW02197; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:16:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:16:47 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Greg Black Cc: mouss , Tony Finch , Andre Oppermann , Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010207151647.T26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> <4.3.0.20010207142937.045be410@pop.free.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from gjb@gbch.net on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 07:05:45AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Greg Black [010207 13:05] wrote: > mouss wrote: > > > At 21:25 07/02/01 +1000, Greg Black wrote: > > >Tony Finch wrote: > > > > > > > Why not just use rename(2)? To protect against the new filename > > > > already existing? > > > > > >Why not just read the man page for rename(2) before making > > >suggestions? > > > > I find nothing convincing in the manpage. Could you please tell > > what I am missing. > > Read the man page, and concentrate on the second sentence under > the Description heading. I'm not sure if the same problem exists for link/unlink and if the problem applies to files (not just directories), but there's a per-FS flag "in-rename" that prevents concurrant rename(2)s on the same FS to prevent a race where something like this can happen: /a/b/c /x/y/z move /a/b to /x/y and at the same time try to move /x/y to /a/b. Without a global lock you can mess up the filesystem pretty badly. I don't think link/unlink can have this problem therefore you might gain more concurrancy by avoiding rename(2). -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 15:30:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 10CF737B65D for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:30:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 6477 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Feb 2001 23:30:05 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 23:30:05 -0000 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:30:05 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Matt Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <20010207150843.R26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sounds reasonable...do you have a url to a trustable supplier? On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:08:43 -0800 > From: Alfred Perlstein > To: Dan Phoenix > Cc: Matt Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) > > * Dan Phoenix [010207 13:42] wrote: > > > > > > Yes maxusers stopped the dmesg errors....it seemed. Only thing I do not > > like to much about postfix is that it only tries one MX record and then > > does not try any others...."default"....yes there is still backlog with > > #'s I gave you. Right now 8 min to get an email from sending... > > I don't think Matt means 'backlog' as in latency, I think he means > backlog as in your backup MX's queing mail for you while you rebooted > and installed FreeBSD. > > If you have that much mail _incoming_ then every time you sneeze > and stop processing the queue even for a few seconds you can suddenly > wind up with a massive amount of inocming mail the second your > server comes online again. This will swamp you and knock the box > over. > > > > :ps. 600 megs of email was calculated in 1 day on this machine...today i > > > :will be splitting up the load and looking into vinum. > > Get a hardware raid card, you can even get a bootable IDE RAID, > although hotswap scsi means less downtime. > > For a project this big you're really being pretty thrifty with the > hardware allocated to it. The time you save hacking on the system > to fix performance problems could be addressed much quicker by > buying somewhat more robust hardware, once that's addressed you > can move on to the next project. > > IDE raid (striping) won't cost more than three to five hundred > dollars including the disks you need. > > -- > -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] > "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 15:35:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 102B137B6A9 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:35:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f17NZDs06852; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:35:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:35:13 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dan Phoenix Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010207153513.U26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20010207150843.R26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dphoenix@bravenet.com on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 03:30:05PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Dan Phoenix [010207 15:30] wrote: > > > Get a hardware raid card, you can even get a bootable IDE RAID, > > although hotswap scsi means less downtime. > > > > For a project this big you're really being pretty thrifty with the > > hardware allocated to it. The time you save hacking on the system > > to fix performance problems could be addressed much quicker by > > buying somewhat more robust hardware, once that's addressed you > > can move on to the next project. > > > > IDE raid (striping) won't cost more than three to five hundred > > dollars including the disks you need. > > > > Sounds reasonable...do you have a url to a trustable supplier? We use BSDi/telenet and they're pretty good: http://hardware.bsdi.com/cgi-bin/telenet.storefront Just make sure you specify that you want the rootfs on the RAID as well. I've heard ASA Computers is pretty good but haven't bought anything from them yet: http://www.asacomputers.com/new/pub/html/index.html -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 15:59:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EE8437B6A6 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:59:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f17NxIa97960; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:59:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:59:18 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102072359.f17NxIa97960@earth.backplane.com> To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Yes maxusers stopped the dmesg errors....it seemed. Only thing I do not :like to much about postfix is that it only tries one MX record and then :does not try any others...."default"....yes there is still backlog with :#'s I gave you. Right now 8 min to get an email from sending...I have :another machine here still with qmail on it....going to try to evenly :distribute the mail between them and see how it goes. I cannot get you :stats from linux box because i wiped it out with freebsd....I will do :everything in my power to keep this box freebsd. Why qmail and linux was :handling the load I will never know now but regardless.....with 600 megs :being pushed a day with all that included backlog .....how many megs do :you think one ide drive can handle will be the biggest question to tackle :over next few days. : :... : :Per-Hour Traffic Summary : time received delivered deferred bounced rejected : -------------------------------------------------------------------- : 0000-0100 9788 9514 373 430 5 : 0100-0200 5800 5782 374 352 1 : 0200-0300 6438 6951 553 361 0 : 0300-0400 11497 10192 591 420 0 :... : 0800-0900 12691 9925 922 452 2 : 0900-1000 12174 12354 1205 645 2 : 1000-1100 13884 10220 837 465 1 It looks like you are maxing out at 13000 or so emails per hour, which is 3.6 a second. Well, that accounts for the disk activity :-) Its too bad you don't have stats from when the box was running Linux, it's difficult to determine whether there was actually a problem with the mail flow without knowing what the box was capable of prior to putting FreeBSD on it. I really can't imagine the linux box doing any better short of turning off fsync(). -- When mail is going in and out at this rate, there are a bunch of things you need to tune to optimize things. I do not know much about postfix, so read the documentation and FAQs carefully on postfix performance configuration issues. You have enough memory to be able to handle at least 120 simultanious mail connections, and possibly more. As for the rest of the system, I recommend the following: * You want at least two mail machines (as you indicated above you intend to test with two machines. I recommend that you use at least two machines *permanently*). It is fairly easy to scale mail systems by adding machines. If you scale this way, you do not have to spend money on RAID subsystems or multiple disks. However, to make the most use of the cpu power on each individual machine you may want to throw in multiple disks and either stripe them together, or run multiple queue directories (one queue directory per disk). Having multiple mail machines has many advantages, not the least of which being that you can take one down for maintainance without interrupting your entire flow of mail. Just have two MX records (at the same MX priority), one pointing to each host. * You want to run a recursive named for DNS lookups locally on each mail machine. Do not point resolv.conf to an outside machine. Do not restart the named -- let the cache build up. * I recommend SCSI over IDE, especially for the random-seek/write situations that you have here. A 2U VALINUX box running FreeBSD with two or three medium sized SCSI drives is a good base unit, then scale up from there by adding more machines. Multi-queue (one queue per drive) is recommended rather then striping them all into a single filesystem. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 16:25: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winnie.fit.edu (winnie.fit.edu [163.118.5.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB2937B4EC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:24:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from netzero.net (rm305w-b.campbell.fit.edu [163.118.216.112]) by winnie.fit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17125 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:25:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A81E786.25B66250@netzero.net> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:25:42 -0500 From: Kevin Brunelle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Kernel editing tools. References: <20010207150843.R26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <20010207153513.U26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey everyone, Sorry if you have heard this before, or if it is annoying. I just can't seem to find any information on this. I have been poking around my kernel for quite some time now, and I have been doing it with various text editors and programs of that nature. It suddenly occured to me that there might be a better way to go about this. So I ask you, are there any programs that make reading and editing the kernel sources any easier? I was thinking about possibly writing a utility to do something like this, if one cannot be found. I don't pretend to be super skilled; I just want some honest advice. Surely you aren't all hacking away on vi or the *other* editor. Well, thanks in advance for any help you can offer. -Kevin Brunelle -- "Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle and quick to anger." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 16:31:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E9537B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:31:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f180VBD08892; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:31:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:31:11 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Kevin Brunelle Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel editing tools. Message-ID: <20010207163110.Y26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20010207150843.R26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <20010207153513.U26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <3A81E786.25B66250@netzero.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A81E786.25B66250@netzero.net>; from kruptos@netzero.net on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 07:25:42PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It's bad form to use "reply" when starting a new thread, people with normal mailers see your message as part of a thread that it's not related to. * Kevin Brunelle [010207 16:25] wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Sorry if you have heard this before, or if it is annoying. I just can't > seem to find any information on this. > > I have been poking around my kernel for quite some time now, and I have > been doing it with various text editors and programs of that nature. It > suddenly occured to me that there might be a better way to go about > this. So I ask you, are there any programs that make reading and editing > the kernel sources any easier? I was thinking about possibly writing a > utility to do something like this, if one cannot be found. I don't > pretend to be super skilled; I just want some honest advice. Surely you > aren't all hacking away on vi or the *other* editor. vim actually. > > Well, thanks in advance for any help you can offer. hmm, some use ctags or cscope, I don't. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 16:34:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from plan9.hert.org (plan9.hert.org [195.3.2.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FEB237B67D for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:34:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (awr@localhost) by plan9.hert.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA15534; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:30:12 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:30:12 +0100 (CET) From: awr To: Kevin Brunelle Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel editing tools. In-Reply-To: <3A81E786.25B66250@netzero.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG VI FOR LIFE On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Kevin Brunelle wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Sorry if you have heard this before, or if it is annoying. I just can't > seem to find any information on this. > > I have been poking around my kernel for quite some time now, and I have > been doing it with various text editors and programs of that nature. It > suddenly occured to me that there might be a better way to go about > this. So I ask you, are there any programs that make reading and editing > the kernel sources any easier? I was thinking about possibly writing a > utility to do something like this, if one cannot be found. I don't > pretend to be super skilled; I just want some honest advice. Surely you > aren't all hacking away on vi or the *other* editor. > > Well, thanks in advance for any help you can offer. > > -Kevin Brunelle > -- > "Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, > for they are subtle and quick to anger." > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 16:37: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (asbestos.linuxcare.com.au [203.17.0.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549E037B503 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:36:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f180Y6M38525; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:34:06 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:34:06 +1100 From: Greg Lehey To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010208113406.C38406@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <20010207141225.A769@gurney.reilly.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from dphoenix@bravenet.com on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:16:44PM -0800 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 7 February 2001 at 13:16:44 -0800, Dan Phoenix wrote: > On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Andrew Reilly wrote: >> On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 12:13:57PM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >>> * Andre Oppermann [010206 12:07] wrote: >>>> Does sendmail even use fsync()? >>> >>> It better. :) >> >> Quick grep of the sendmail sources shows most of the six fsync >> calls protected by a flag (SuperSafe && or nofsync &&). I don't >> know what circumstances can provoke either of those flags to be >> zero, but if they can be, then it mightn't be doing any fsyncs. > > I went over to postfix to see if it did better.....in fact it did on > freebsd but still same problem with I/O. SOlution from talking to > some people late last night would be to add another harddrive and > stripe it with another drive using vinum. As you all know IDE does > not do multitasking unlike scsi. My question is this vinum > product...i beleive the superceder of ccd....taking another > harddrive and striping it with the root ide drive would in theory > destroy all contents of first IDE? Or can this volume manager take > say a partition of first ide drive and made to work with another ide > drive? Trying to figure out at this point whether concept is 2 other > drives striped together say..using raid 0 or I can get away with > just one other one. Thx in advance. At the moment there are two issues: 1. Vinum requires that all file systems be made out of subdisks in a "drive", which is really a partition. A drive has 265 sectors of config and label information at the beginning, so unless you have this space available, you can't turn a ufs partition into a Vinum object. You can convert the first file system after swap to Vinum by shrinking the swap and moving the start of the drive to 265 sectors before the beginning of the file system. Even so, you wouldn't be able to stripe things in this configuration, because striping rearranges the blocks on disk. But I suspect that with ufs, striping won't buy you much over concatenation, which *would* work in this scenario. I'm planning to change things so that Vinum can import external objects such as ufs partitions, for exactly this reason. But I still want to be able to have at least one Vinum drive on each spindle (i.e. physical drive), because Vinum is location independent: you can move spindles with Vinum drives on them to different locations (device names), and Vinum will still understand the configuration. This requires information on the spindle itself, of course. 2. The released version of Vinum still doesn't support a Vinum root file system. I'm planning to work on that, but it'll take a while. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 16:37:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (asbestos.linuxcare.com.au [203.17.0.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7264137B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:37:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f180aco38540; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:36:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:36:38 +1100 From: Greg Lehey To: Matt Dillon Cc: Dan Phoenix , Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010208113638.D38406@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <200102072131.f17LVQv94265@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200102072131.f17LVQv94265@earth.backplane.com>; from dillon@earth.backplane.com on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:31:26PM -0800 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 7 February 2001 at 13:31:26 -0800, Matt Dillon wrote: > > In anycase, while VINUM is great for striping disks I recommend that > you use CCD to begin with, because CCD is a whole lot less complex. > You can stripe IDE drives but the two drives must be on different IDE > controllers (not just primary secondary, but each drive must be primary > on its own controller). Then striping will help. I'd contest that. I find configuring ccd very confusing. But recall that error recovery with ccd is extremely primitive. With Vinum you can add mirroring on the fly, and if a mirror dies, the volume carries on running. > Of course, I would not recommend using IDE at all if you are > pushing 600MB/day in mail. You really should be using a SCSI > based system... something like the VALINUX boxes (running > either Linux or FreeBSD). If you have only one drive per IDE controller, performance can be very good. You definitely don't want more than one drive, though. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 16:37:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (asbestos.linuxcare.com.au [203.17.0.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F84C37B4EC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:37:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f180beU38552; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:37:40 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:37:40 +1100 From: Greg Lehey To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Matt Dillon , Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010208113740.E38406@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <200102072131.f17LVQv94265@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from dphoenix@bravenet.com on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:41:29PM -0800 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 7 February 2001 at 13:41:29 -0800, Dan Phoenix wrote: > > btw ccd requires 2 other drives am i correct? No, you can use ccd with only 2 drives. > So i just remove /var/ basically from fstab ...raid0 2 drives together > and mount that as var...is my basic understanding. > of course of 2 separate controllers......I still don;t see why that > matters whether they are on separate controllers or not but my guess has > to do with IDE unable to multitask idea.....which is leading me to think > that means down one controller? See my last message. You're close. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 16:40: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from midas.ifour.com.br (unknown [200.238.229.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 12D8B37B4EC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:39:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 20981 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:34:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ifour.com.br) (192.168.1.11) by 192.168.1.10 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:34:57 -0000 Message-ID: <3A81CE6B.BEF5A714@ifour.com.br> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 22:38:35 +0000 From: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: building boot floppies set Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG May some one give me some help where i can find documentation on building my own boot floppy disk for freebsd ? Thanks in advance! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 16:55:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f104.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAF0037B4EC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:55:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:55:12 -0800 Received: from 207.102.78.161 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 00:55:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.102.78.161] From: "Sean Cull" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: procfs Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 00:55:12 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2001 00:55:12.0449 (UTC) FILETIME=[CAAFDB10:01C09169] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right place or not, or who's going to end up reading it, but here goes... I installed FreeBSD the other day, and accepted the Auto-defaults for partitions (/usr, /var, etc.) and the installation went fine. I then proceeded to install a few ports, and those ran fine. But last night I was downloading something and then I was getting an error saying /proc was full. As much as I've looked, I can't find out exactly what procfs is... I'm wondering how I can be out of space when I have 10 gigs free on my drive. Is it a question of resizing my partition scheme? Or are they called slices in BSD? I'm not sure what other information you guys need to answer my question. Even pointing me to documentation on procfs would help. Does it NEED to be mounted? If so, why? If not, why not? Any help would be greatly appreciated. =) -Sean Cull code_monk@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 17: 1:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2C8937B4EC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:01:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f1811XW10006; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:01:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:01:33 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Sean Cull Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: procfs Message-ID: <20010207170133.A26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from code_monk@hotmail.com on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 12:55:12AM -0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Sean Cull [010207 16:55] wrote: > Hi! > > I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right place or not, or who's going > to end up reading it, but here goes... > > I installed FreeBSD the other day, and accepted the Auto-defaults for > partitions (/usr, /var, etc.) and the installation went fine. I then > proceeded to install a few ports, and those ran fine. But last night I was > downloading something and then I was getting an error saying /proc was full. > As much as I've looked, I can't find out exactly what procfs is... I'm > wondering how I can be out of space when I have 10 gigs free on my drive. Is > it a question of resizing my partition scheme? Or are they called slices in > BSD? > I'm not sure what other information you guys need to answer my question. > Even pointing me to documentation on procfs would help. Does it NEED to be > mounted? If so, why? If not, why not? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. =) procfs has a manpage. it's a view into the currently running programs on the system. there's discussions on what it does in the mailing lists. my guess is that somehow you tried to create a file in it, you shouldn't be able to do that. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 17:11: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from chopper.Poohsticks.ORG (chopper.poohsticks.org [63.227.60.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8F237B65D for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:10:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from chopper.Poohsticks.ORG (drew@localhost.poohsticks.org [127.0.0.1]) by chopper.Poohsticks.ORG (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f181Afn03745; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 18:10:42 -0700 Message-Id: <200102080110.f181Afn03745@chopper.Poohsticks.ORG> To: Kevin Brunelle Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel editing tools. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:25:42 EST." <3A81E786.25B66250@netzero.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3741.981594641.1@chopper.Poohsticks.ORG> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:10:41 -0700 From: Drew Eckhardt Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <3A81E786.25B66250@netzero.net>, kruptos@netzero.net writes: >Hey everyone, > >Sorry if you have heard this before, or if it is annoying. I just can't >seem to find any information on this. > >I have been poking around my kernel for quite some time now, and I have >been doing it with various text editors and programs of that nature. It >suddenly occured to me that there might be a better way to go about >this. So I ask you, are there any programs that make reading and editing >the kernel sources any easier? Sure - vi. Among other things, the movement keys are on your touch typing homerow, it plays nice with ctags(1), /^function_name works great, and the regex based search and replace is real useful. >Surely you aren't all hacking away on vi or the *other* editor. Reasonable arguments can be made for emacs too. -- Home Page For those who do, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 17:26: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au (mailman.zeta.org.au [203.26.10.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6067237B4EC; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:25:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from bde.zeta.org.au (bde.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.102]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06100; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:25:17 +1100 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:24:55 +1100 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-Sender: bde@besplex.bde.org To: Josef Karthauser Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Julian Elischer , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O In-Reply-To: <20010207231306.B972@tao.org.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Josef Karthauser wrote: > On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 08:56:14PM +0000, Josef Karthauser wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 08:26:15PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > Brian Somers writes: > > > > Indeed. I've been doing a ``make build'' on an OpenBSD-current vm > > > > for three days (probably about 36 hours excluding suspends) on a > > > > 366MHz laptop with a ATA33 disk. > > > > > > Would it be possible for someone experiencing this slowdown to try to > > > narrow down the day (or even the week) on which it occurred? > > > > As I think about it it was definitity working before the symbol changes > > in libc/libc_r changed. Was that last week? No probably the week > > before. It was working fine last week, but I'm not sure which day's I > > updated the kernel. > > > > I'll try some builds. > > Ok. The problem definitely began between -D2001-01-29 and -D2001-01-30. > I'll try and binary chop to workout what caused it. If you have ata disks, try "options ATA_ENABLE_WC". Nothing else has changed significantly in this period. I don't know how this would effect vmware boot speeds. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 17:34: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D7D6F37B69B for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:33:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 53022 invoked by uid 1001); 8 Feb 2001 11:33:37 +1000 X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.12 07-Feb-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/ X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/img/gjb-auug048.gif X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-pgpkey.asc Message-Id: Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:33:36 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: mouss , Tony Finch , Andre Oppermann , Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> <4.3.0.20010207142937.045be410@pop.free.fr> <20010207151647.T26076@fw.wintelcom.net> In-reply-to: <20010207151647.T26076@fw.wintelcom.net> of Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:16:47 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Greg Black [010207 13:05] wrote: > > mouss wrote: > > > > > At 21:25 07/02/01 +1000, Greg Black wrote: > > > >Tony Finch wrote: > > > > > > > > > Why not just use rename(2)? To protect against the new filename > > > > > already existing? > > > > > > > >Why not just read the man page for rename(2) before making > > > >suggestions? > > > > > > I find nothing convincing in the manpage. Could you please tell > > > what I am missing. > > > > Read the man page, and concentrate on the second sentence under > > the Description heading. > > I'm not sure if the same problem exists for link/unlink and if > the problem applies to files (not just directories), but there's > a per-FS flag "in-rename" that prevents concurrant rename(2)s on > the same FS to prevent a race where something like this can happen: > > /a/b/c > > /x/y/z > > move /a/b to /x/y and at the same time try to move /x/y to /a/b. You can't rename /a/b to /x/y or /x/y to /a/b in this situation: the destination must be empty if it's a directory and you refer to /a/b/c and /x/y/z. RTFM rename(2). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 17:55:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1C4D37B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:54:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f181qNX11438; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:52:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:52:23 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Greg Black Cc: mouss , Tony Finch , Andre Oppermann , Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010207175223.D26076@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> <4.3.0.20010207142937.045be410@pop.free.fr> <20010207151647.T26076@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from gjb@gbch.net on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 11:33:36AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Greg Black [010207 17:33] wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > * Greg Black [010207 13:05] wrote: > > > mouss wrote: > > > > > > > At 21:25 07/02/01 +1000, Greg Black wrote: > > > > >Tony Finch wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Why not just use rename(2)? To protect against the new filename > > > > > > already existing? > > > > > > > > > >Why not just read the man page for rename(2) before making > > > > >suggestions? > > > > > > > > I find nothing convincing in the manpage. Could you please tell > > > > what I am missing. > > > > > > Read the man page, and concentrate on the second sentence under > > > the Description heading. > > > > I'm not sure if the same problem exists for link/unlink and if > > the problem applies to files (not just directories), but there's > > a per-FS flag "in-rename" that prevents concurrant rename(2)s on > > the same FS to prevent a race where something like this can happen: > > > > /a/b/c > > > > /x/y/z > > > > move /a/b to /x/y and at the same time try to move /x/y to /a/b. > > You can't rename /a/b to /x/y or /x/y to /a/b in this situation: > the destination must be empty if it's a directory and you refer > to /a/b/c and /x/y/z. RTFM rename(2). Ugh, you're right, this is how Linux handles the simultanious rename problem (I talked to Viro about it at USENIX). We seem to be able to handle it by just locking the directory node, our IN_RENAME != LINUX_IN_RENAME. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 17:57:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (mass.dis.org [216.240.45.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C9537B4EC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f181wh902205; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:58:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200102080158.f181wh902205@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Kevin Brunelle Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel editing tools. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:25:42 EST." <3A81E786.25B66250@netzero.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 17:58:43 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have been poking around my kernel for quite some time now, and I have > been doing it with various text editors and programs of that nature. It > suddenly occured to me that there might be a better way to go about > this. So I ask you, are there any programs that make reading and editing > the kernel sources any easier? I was thinking about possibly writing a > utility to do something like this, if one cannot be found. I don't > pretend to be super skilled; I just want some honest advice. Surely you > aren't all hacking away on vi or the *other* editor. Typically I either just use less and a stack of terminal windows, or cscope (the latter is in the ports collection, and invaluable). -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 18:17: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xena.gsicomp.on.ca (cr677933-a.ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com [24.43.230.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 505B437B4EC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 18:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (matt@localhost) by xena.gsicomp.on.ca (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f182Eoo42122; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:14:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from matt@xena.gsicomp.on.ca) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:14:50 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Emmerton To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Matthew Luckie , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: syscall kernel modules on 3.0-release In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 7 Feb 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Matthew Luckie writes: > > I completely understand your plea to not use 3.0 release. > > I am personally using 4.2-stable. Its not my decision to use 3.0 > > I beleive the computers running 3.0 have been running it for several years > > now - i.e. it was the latest available at the time. > > Well, it was a stupid decision at that time, and the decision not to > upgrade or replace these machines now is even stupider. Hey now, go easy. Lots of stupid decisions are made by "managers" who don't understand the implications of old(er) technology. I've got a 3.2-R machine which I'm forced to maintain, and the only reason why it's not running 3.2-S or 4.2-S is because I can't take the stupid thing offline. I've haggled with my boss for a 6 hour window and the answer is no, no, no. I've even got a 3.2-S installation waiting in /usr/obj. The only way I'm going to get my 3.2-R machine upgraded (and the only way this person is going to get their 3.0-R machine upgraded) is when it breaks and requires a complete reinstall to become operational. -- Matt Emmerton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 18:38:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CFF037B4EC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 18:37:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f182JAE39186; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:19:10 +1300 (NZDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Message-Id: <200102080219.f182JAE39186@ns1.unixathome.org> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: novice in training To: Matthew Emmerton Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:37:47 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: syscall kernel modules on 3.0-release Reply-To: dan@langille.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 7 Feb 2001, at 21:14, Matthew Emmerton wrote: > On 7 Feb 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > Matthew Luckie writes: > > > I completely understand your plea to not use 3.0 release. > > > I am personally using 4.2-stable. Its not my decision to use 3.0 > > > I beleive the computers running 3.0 have been running it for several years > > > now - i.e. it was the latest available at the time. > > > > Well, it was a stupid decision at that time, and the decision not to > > upgrade or replace these machines now is even stupider. Be careful how you criticize. > Hey now, go easy. Lots of stupid decisions are made by "managers" who > don't understand the implications of old(er) technology. > > I've got a 3.2-R machine which I'm forced to maintain, and the only reason > why it's not running 3.2-S or 4.2-S is because I can't take the stupid > thing offline. I've haggled with my boss for a 6 hour window and the > answer is no, no, no. I've even got a 3.2-S installation waiting in > /usr/obj. What about replacing the box with a new box? Smaller window. > The only way I'm going to get my 3.2-R machine upgraded (and the only way > this person is going to get their 3.0-R machine upgraded) is when it > breaks and requires a complete reinstall to become operational. It might pay to send an email to your boss, cc'd to yourself explaining this. I've seen some managers who make decisions such as that and then blame others when the crap hits. -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 18:55: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xena.gsicomp.on.ca (cr677933-a.ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com [24.43.230.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8659637B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 18:54:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (matt@localhost) by xena.gsicomp.on.ca (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f182qtI42279; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:52:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from matt@xena.gsicomp.on.ca) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:52:55 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Emmerton To: Dan Langille Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: syscall kernel modules on 3.0-release In-Reply-To: <200102080219.f182JAE39186@ns1.unixathome.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Dan Langille wrote: > On 7 Feb 2001, at 21:14, Matthew Emmerton wrote: > > On 7 Feb 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > > > Matthew Luckie writes: > > > > I completely understand your plea to not use 3.0 release. > > > > I am personally using 4.2-stable. Its not my decision to use 3.0 > > > > I beleive the computers running 3.0 have been running it for several years > > > > now - i.e. it was the latest available at the time. > > > > > > Well, it was a stupid decision at that time, and the decision not to > > > upgrade or replace these machines now is even stupider. > > Be careful how you criticize. > > > Hey now, go easy. Lots of stupid decisions are made by "managers" who > > don't understand the implications of old(er) technology. > > > > I've got a 3.2-R machine which I'm forced to maintain, and the only reason > > why it's not running 3.2-S or 4.2-S is because I can't take the stupid > > thing offline. I've haggled with my boss for a 6 hour window and the > > answer is no, no, no. I've even got a 3.2-S installation waiting in > > /usr/obj. > > What about replacing the box with a new box? Smaller window. Unfortunately, all management sees is the $2000+ cost of a new box. (I'm sure that in both my case and the other case, management has spent more than that in the additional labour required to work around the "features" of the older box.) > > The only way I'm going to get my 3.2-R machine upgraded (and the only way > > this person is going to get their 3.0-R machine upgraded) is when it > > breaks and requires a complete reinstall to become operational. > > It might pay to send an email to your boss, cc'd to yourself explaining > this. I've seen some managers who make decisions such as that and > then blame others when the crap hits. That might work, but that requires boss/manager to have some idea of the technical implications of a) upgrading and b) remaining with old OS. Depending on the organization, the situation may be next-to-impossible. (And no saying I-told-you-so when it eventually breaks.) -- Matt Emmerton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 18:56: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rapidnet.com (rapidnet.com [205.164.216.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A60E37B4EC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 18:55:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nick@localhost) by rapidnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03445; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:53:16 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:53:16 -0700 (MST) From: Nick Rogness To: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: building boot floppies set In-Reply-To: <3A81CE6B.BEF5A714@ifour.com.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios wrote: > May some one give me some help where i can find documentation on > building my own boot floppy disk for freebsd ? Most info about the FreeBSD OS can be obtained via the website at: http://www.freebsd.org For your particular question, the doc can be found at: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/install-guide.html#INSTALL-FLOPPIES For future reference, questions like these should be sent to: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Best of Luck! Nick Rogness - Keep on routing in a Free World... "FreeBSD: The Power to Serve " To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 19: 7:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E8637B699; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:07:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f18376h23008; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:07:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:07:06 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Brian Somers , Julian Elischer , Bruce Evans , Josef Karthauser , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 7 Feb 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Brian Somers writes: > > Indeed. I've been doing a ``make build'' on an OpenBSD-current vm > > for three days (probably about 36 hours excluding suspends) on a > > 366MHz laptop with a ATA33 disk. > > Would it be possible for someone experiencing this slowdown to try to > narrow down the day (or even the week) on which it occurred? I've experienced a substantial slowdown in VMware since bumping forwards from -STABLE on my workstation. As I recently commented on -emulation, I've also been experiencing 30-40 second hangs of the system during VMware startup and occasional serious slowdown while running, which may be related to the fairly intensive VM activity for page wiring and the like, or possible poor interaction with the ATA driver. I also get messages on the order of the following: swap_pager: indefinite wait buffer: device: ad0s1b, blkno: 2696, size: 4096 And have heard that others have started getting them also, although don't have confirmation of that. It may be that things need retuning a bit in -CURRENT, or that we need to wait for SMPng to do some pushdown of locks. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 19:13:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2AAC37B69D for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:13:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f183DJh23064; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:13:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:13:19 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Kevin Brunelle Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel editing tools. In-Reply-To: <3A81E786.25B66250@netzero.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Kevin Brunelle wrote: > Sorry if you have heard this before, or if it is annoying. I just can't > seem to find any information on this. > > I have been poking around my kernel for quite some time now, and I have > been doing it with various text editors and programs of that nature. It > suddenly occured to me that there might be a better way to go about > this. So I ask you, are there any programs that make reading and editing > the kernel sources any easier? I was thinking about possibly writing a > utility to do something like this, if one cannot be found. I don't > pretend to be super skilled; I just want some honest advice. Surely you > aren't all hacking away on vi or the *other* editor. > > Well, thanks in advance for any help you can offer. Heh. Mostly I use vi and more, along with liberal use of grep and occasionally (fear) sed. In the past, I've used glimpse for faster searching of the source tree. And cvs commands such as log, diff, annotate, and commit (!) are invaluable. When browsing less familiar source trees, such as the Linux kernel source, I like using web-based source cross-referencing. As Mike Smith points out, an excessive number of open xterm windows makes life a lot easier--the larger the screen, the more productive I am. Right now I have about 15 source files open in various vi sessions, and I'm coveting the Apple 22" display... Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 20:27:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us [216.186.55.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE90B37B491 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (protozoa@localhost) by ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA88200; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:27:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from protozoa@ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:23:08 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Feldman To: Matthew Emmerton Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Matthew Luckie , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: syscall kernel modules on 3.0-release In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmm, I have exactly the same situation, a mission-critical server that can't be taken offline to do an upgrade. It's running 3.4, but with a few binaries from 4.0 that I needed to make our CGIs work (development is done on 4.2 :). Anyway, for the kernel it MIGHT be possible to "borrow" one from a nearby 4.0-series machine, install it, and reboot, taking the machine offline for a couple of minutes. This is obviously a bad idea, since userspace will still be 3.0, but it's something to think about. Sorry this is so OT. -- Dan Feldman On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Matthew Emmerton wrote: > On 7 Feb 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > Matthew Luckie writes: > > > I completely understand your plea to not use 3.0 release. > > > I am personally using 4.2-stable. Its not my decision to use 3.0 > > > I beleive the computers running 3.0 have been running it for several years > > > now - i.e. it was the latest available at the time. > > > > Well, it was a stupid decision at that time, and the decision not to > > upgrade or replace these machines now is even stupider. > > Hey now, go easy. Lots of stupid decisions are made by "managers" who > don't understand the implications of old(er) technology. > > I've got a 3.2-R machine which I'm forced to maintain, and the only reason > why it's not running 3.2-S or 4.2-S is because I can't take the stupid > thing offline. I've haggled with my boss for a 6 hour window and the > answer is no, no, no. I've even got a 3.2-S installation waiting in > /usr/obj. > > The only way I'm going to get my 3.2-R machine upgraded (and the only way > this person is going to get their 3.0-R machine upgraded) is when it > breaks and requires a complete reinstall to become operational. > > -- > Matt Emmerton > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 20:56: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698BB37B65D for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:55:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0163D5762A; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:56:23 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:56:23 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Dan Phoenix Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010207225623.F20454@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mail-Followup-To: "Michael C . Wu" , Dan Phoenix , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010207141225.A769@gurney.reilly.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dphoenix@bravenet.com on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:16:44PM -0800 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:16:44PM -0800, Dan Phoenix scribbled: | I went over to postfix to see if it did better.....in fact it did on | freebsd but still same problem with I/O. SOlution from talking to some | people late last night would be to add another harddrive and stripe it | with another drive using vinum. As you all know IDE does not do | multitasking unlike scsi. My question is this vinum product...i beleive | the superceder of ccd....taking another harddrive and striping it with the | root ide drive would in theory destroy all contents of first IDE? | Or can this volume manager take say a partition of first ide drive and | made to work with another ide drive? Trying to figure out at this point | whether concept is 2 other drives striped together say..using raid 0 or | I can get away with just one other one. Thx in advance. | | ps. 600 megs of email was calculated in 1 day on this machine...today i | will be splitting up the load and looking into vinum. My question is how you are justifying a major SMTP daemon switch nightly on such an important production box? Do you have multiple MX'es and just take the test box off? Do you mind giving more stats on the following? 1. connection counts by time and by total 2. user count 3. login count 4. Net traffic by MRTG This seems like a good measurement of FreeBSD no matter what the SMTP daemon is. By the way, like Matt Dillon said, why do you want to use IDE on such a heavily loaded box? :) -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 23: 3:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp1b.mail.yahoo.com (smtp3.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0AF3437B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nat-198-95-226-208.netapp.com (HELO fdevijvelap) (198.95.226.208) by smtp.mail.vip.suc.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 08:10:21 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <05cd01c0919c$c77b0db0$1fc9a8c0@europe.netapp.com> From: "fab" To: "Matt Dillon" , "Mike Smith" Cc: "Michael C . Wu" , "Mitch Collinsworth" , , References: <200102052052.f15KqOe00985@mass.dis.org> Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:36:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Mens, it's exact that filers can't exceed 6TB but we can have eaysyly performance (pretty so good) with their. If you try to have EMC box or IBM, you will have to manage anything that it's not your job (IO for example). I think that netapp can be a very simple solution (where other man sells complexity) Thanks Fab. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Smith To: Matt Dillon Cc: Michael C . Wu ; Mitch Collinsworth ; ; Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:52 PM Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning > > > > :| > The files are accessed approximately 3 or 4 times a day on average. > > :| > Older files are archived for reference purpose and may never > > :| > be accessed after a week. > > :| > > :| Ok, this is a start. Now is the 70 TB the size of the active files? > > :| Or does that also include the older archived files that may never be > > :| accessed again? > > :70TB is the size of the sum of all files, access or no access. > > :(They still want to maintain accessibility even though the chances are slim.) > ... > > This doesn't sound like something you can just throw together with > > off-the-shelf PCs and still have something reliable to show for it. > > You need a big honking RAID system - maybe a NetApp, maybe something > > else. You have to look at the filesystem and file size limitations > > of the unit and the client(s). > > You can't do this with a NetApp either; they max out at about 6TB now > (going up to around 12 or so soon). You might want to talk to EMC and/or > IBM, both of whom have *extremely* large filers. > > Your friend may also want to look at Traakan, who have a novel product in > this space. > > -- > ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his > rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want > to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force > people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] > V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 7 23:27:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE46137B4EC; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f182giN82003; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 02:42:44 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 02:42:44 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Brooks Davis Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: documenting an ioctl interface Message-ID: <20010208024244.B81595@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20010205171822.A16102@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010205171822.A16102@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu>; from brooks@one-eyed-alien.net on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 05:18:22PM -0800 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 05:18:22PM -0800, Brooks Davis wrote: > I'm working one some code which among other things introduces a new > ioctl interface for IEEE802.11 devices. Since there are a number of > useful apps which might want to use this iterface and a number of > drivers which will need to implement it that I can't test it seems like > I should write a manpage for this. Can anyone point me to a sample of > such documentation to give me an idea of how to structure it? Nothing immediately leaps to mind. I've cc'd this to the freebsd-hackers mailing list for suggestions. N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 0:19:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hand.dotat.at (sfo-gw.covalent.net [207.44.198.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F59D37B491 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 00:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from fanf by hand.dotat.at with local (Exim 3.20 #3) id 14QmEw-000AE9-00; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:15:42 +0000 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:15:42 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: Greg Black Cc: Andre Oppermann , Matt Dillon , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Tony Finch Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010208081542.M74296@hand.dotat.at> References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: Organization: Covalent Technologies, Inc Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Black wrote: >Tony Finch wrote: > >> Why not just use rename(2)? To protect against the new filename >> already existing? > >Why not just read the man page for rename(2) before making >suggestions? I did. I'm glad I was right that it's deleting the destination that is the problem. I would have thought it would be easy to be sure that spool filenames are unique, but OTOH I guess that's not completely robust. Tony. -- f.a.n.finch fanf@covalent.net dot@dotat.at GERMAN BIGHT: SOUTHERLY BECOMING CYCLONIC THEN MAINLY NORTHERLY 5 TO 7, PERHAPS GALE 8 LATER. RAIN. MAINLY MODERATE. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 0:20:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from icon.icon.bg (icon-bg.net [62.176.80.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9AFD037B503 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 00:20:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 72088 invoked by uid 1144); 8 Feb 2001 08:21:14 -0000 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:21:14 +0200 From: Victor Ivanov To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel editing tools. Message-ID: <20010208102114.A71678@icon.icon.bg> References: <20010207150843.R26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <20010207153513.U26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <3A81E786.25B66250@netzero.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A81E786.25B66250@netzero.net>; from kruptos@netzero.net on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 07:25:42PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 07:25:42PM -0500, Kevin Brunelle wrote: > Hey everyone, >=20 > Sorry if you have heard this before, or if it is annoying. I just can't > seem to find any information on this. >=20 > I have been poking around my kernel for quite some time now, and I have > been doing it with various text editors and programs of that nature. It > suddenly occured to me that there might be a better way to go about > this. So I ask you, are there any programs that make reading and editing > the kernel sources any easier? I was thinking about possibly writing a > utility to do something like this, if one cannot be found. I don't > pretend to be super skilled; I just want some honest advice. Surely you > aren't all hacking away on vi or the *other* editor. >=20 > Well, thanks in advance for any help you can offer. Look at FreeBSD Source Tour at http://current.jp.freebsd.org/. I think it's great for browsing the source code. --=20 Players win and Winners play Have a lucky day --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5.1i iQCVAwUBOoJW+fD9M5lef5W3AQG9LwP+JlyJ/ihtPoQoewjq9tEy0VTBCh9iddOL Vik2XxKcC4mkzYgAxsRleW3+o7khyEtkezqfFgZkItU3CSZRTRLm3Ey7U4JH2srA J3BV1DlXJ4i+k2rAETwZkCmm5NG4f0VvxeFOKvYBC1HYtkgY4CLI01j7pW54YplQ 2XGy5H/uRSc= =VJ+k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 1: 7:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from syncopation-01.iinet.net.au (syncopation-01.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4DF6C37B698 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:07:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 23004 invoked by uid 666); 8 Feb 2001 09:14:10 -0000 Received: from reggae-14-250.nv.iinet.net.au (HELO elischer.org) (203.59.77.250) by mail.m.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 09:14:10 -0000 Message-ID: <3A8261C4.7D8FF017@elischer.org> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 01:07:16 -0800 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Emmerton Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Matthew Luckie , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: syscall kernel modules on 3.0-release References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Emmerton wrote: > > On 7 Feb 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > Matthew Luckie writes: > > > I completely understand your plea to not use 3.0 release. > > > I am personally using 4.2-stable. Its not my decision to use 3.0 > > > I beleive the computers running 3.0 have been running it for several years > > > now - i.e. it was the latest available at the time. > > > > Well, it was a stupid decision at that time, and the decision not to > > upgrade or replace these machines now is even stupider. > > Hey now, go easy. Lots of stupid decisions are made by "managers" who > don't understand the implications of old(er) technology. > > I've got a 3.2-R machine which I'm forced to maintain, and the only reason > why it's not running 3.2-S or 4.2-S is because I can't take the stupid > thing offline. I've haggled with my boss for a 6 hour window and the > answer is no, no, no. I've even got a 3.2-S installation waiting in > /usr/obj. then you will need considerably less than 6 hours.. try asking for 25 minutes... (is 3.2 enough?) you could go to 4.x by doing the compile remotely and nfs mounting /usr/obj/ /usr/src and doing a make installworld from there....) > > The only way I'm going to get my 3.2-R machine upgraded (and the only way > this person is going to get their 3.0-R machine upgraded) is when it > breaks and requires a complete reinstall to become operational. > > -- > Matt Emmerton > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 ---> X_.---._/ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 1:10:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA74837B69C for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:10:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA66910; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:10:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Matthew Emmerton Cc: Matthew Luckie , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: syscall kernel modules on 3.0-release References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 Feb 2001 10:10:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: Matthew Emmerton's message of "Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:14:50 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Emmerton writes: > I've got a 3.2-R machine which I'm forced to maintain, and the only reason > why it's not running 3.2-S or 4.2-S is because I can't take the stupid > thing offline. I've haggled with my boss for a 6 hour window and the > answer is no, no, no. I've even got a 3.2-S installation waiting in > /usr/obj. You don't need a six-hour window. Take a level 0 dump of the box, restore it on a scratch box, upgrade the scratch box and test it. If you can, write a script that does the entire upgrade. When you're sure you've got it down pat, take the production box down for however long you need to upgrade it (somewhere between half an hour and two hours depending on disk speeds and how much tinkering is needed). DES (been there, done that) -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 1:13: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from syncopation-01.iinet.net.au (syncopation-01.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B13337B69C for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 24495 invoked by uid 666); 8 Feb 2001 09:19:28 -0000 Received: from reggae-14-250.nv.iinet.net.au (HELO elischer.org) (203.59.77.250) by mail.m.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 09:19:28 -0000 Message-ID: <3A826301.8AC3771C@elischer.org> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 01:12:33 -0800 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Matt Dillon , Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Phoenix wrote: > > Yes maxusers stopped the dmesg errors....it seemed. Only thing I do not > like to much about postfix is that it only tries one MX record and then > does not try any others...."default"....yes there is still backlog with > #'s I gave you. Right now 8 min to get an email from sending...I have > another machine here still with qmail on it....going to try to evenly > distribute the mail between them and see how it goes. I cannot get you > stats from linux box because i wiped it out with freebsd....I will do > everything in my power to keep this box freebsd. Why qmail and linux was > handling the load I will never know now but regardless.....with 600 megs > being pushed a day with all that included backlog .....how many megs do > you think one ide drive can handle will be the biggest question to tackle > over next few days. > So, after that last discussion here, did you turn on soft updates? -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 ---> X_.---._/ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 1:15:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from syncopation-01.iinet.net.au (syncopation-01.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E25EF37B69C for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:14:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 25066 invoked by uid 666); 8 Feb 2001 09:21:32 -0000 Received: from reggae-14-250.nv.iinet.net.au (HELO elischer.org) (203.59.77.250) by mail.m.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 09:21:32 -0000 Message-ID: <3A82637D.41592D6@elischer.org> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 01:14:37 -0800 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Dillon Cc: Dan Phoenix , Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <200102072359.f17NxIa97960@earth.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > > :Yes maxusers stopped the dmesg errors....it seemed. Only thing I do not > :like to much about postfix is that it only tries one MX record and then > :does not try any others...."default"....yes there is still backlog with > :#'s I gave you. Right now 8 min to get an email from sending...I have > :another machine here still with qmail on it....going to try to evenly > :distribute the mail between them and see how it goes. I cannot get you > :stats from linux box because i wiped it out with freebsd....I will do > :everything in my power to keep this box freebsd. Why qmail and linux was > :handling the load I will never know now but regardless.....with 600 megs > :being pushed a day with all that included backlog .....how many megs do > :you think one ide drive can handle will be the biggest question to tackle > :over next few days. > : > :... > : > :Per-Hour Traffic Summary > : time received delivered deferred bounced rejected > : -------------------------------------------------------------------- > : 0000-0100 9788 9514 373 430 5 > : 0100-0200 5800 5782 374 352 1 > : 0200-0300 6438 6951 553 361 0 > : 0300-0400 11497 10192 591 420 0 > :... > : 0800-0900 12691 9925 922 452 2 > : 0900-1000 12174 12354 1205 645 2 > : 1000-1100 13884 10220 837 465 1 > > It looks like you are maxing out at 13000 or so emails per hour, > which is 3.6 a second. > > Well, that accounts for the disk activity :-) iostat 1 would be interesting.. the linux equivalent would have been interesting too.. -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 ---> X_.---._/ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 2:54:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hermes.research.kpn.com (hermes.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D8B37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 02:54:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by research.kpn.com (PMDF V5.2-31 #42699) with ESMTP id <01JZV7KI263E000AEN@research.kpn.com> for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:54:32 +0100 Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:54:32 +0100 Content-return: allowed Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:54:31 +0100 From: "Koster, K.J." Subject: RE: syscall kernel modules on 3.0-release To: 'Dan Feldman' , Matthew Emmerton Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E4522026D7BD6@l04.research.kpn.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hmm, I have exactly the same situation, a mission-critical server that > can't be taken offline to do an upgrade. It's running 3.4, > but with a few binaries from 4.0 that I needed to make our CGIs work > (development is done on 4.2 :). > Euh... Mission Critical(tm) without a backup machine? Your boss did sign the "will not whine when it dies"--agreement, right? Kees Jan ================================================ You are only young once, but you can stay immature all your life. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 3:35:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [194.242.131.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A2B37B401; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 03:35:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 7984C311E; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:35:19 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:35:19 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Robert Watson Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Julian Elischer , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O Message-ID: <20010208113519.A789@tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , Robert Watson , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Julian Elischer , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FL5UXtIhxfXey3p5" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from rwatson@FreeBSD.ORG on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 10:07:06PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --FL5UXtIhxfXey3p5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 10:07:06PM -0500, Robert Watson wrote: >=20 > On 7 Feb 2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >=20 > > Brian Somers writes: > > > Indeed. I've been doing a ``make build'' on an OpenBSD-current vm=20 > > > for three days (probably about 36 hours excluding suspends) on a=20 > > > 366MHz laptop with a ATA33 disk. > >=20 > > Would it be possible for someone experiencing this slowdown to try to > > narrow down the day (or even the week) on which it occurred? >=20 > I've experienced a substantial slowdown in VMware since bumping forwards > from -STABLE on my workstation. As I recently commented on -emulation, > I've also been experiencing 30-40 second hangs of the system during VMware > startup and occasional serious slowdown while running, which may be > related to the fairly intensive VM activity for page wiring and the like, > or possible poor interaction with the ATA driver. I also get messages on > the order of the following:=20 The slowdown during start up appears to be in biowr; this is probably because of IDE write caching being switched off. More seriously the vmware hangs during various phases of it's boot process. i.e: 714 root -14 0 123M 79192K inode 0:45 25.29% 25.29% vmware When this happens the whole machine freezes also. Processes run, but new processes don't get forked. The whole machine appears to be I/O bound. (What's the 'inode' state?) The problem is definitely solved by enabling ATA_ENABLE_WC in the kernel config. What's unclear to me is why the hang in 'inode' with it switched off. I understand that biowr's would take longer, which is vmware does as it brings up the virtual machine, but why the hanging and freezing in 'inode'? Joe RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/dev/ata/ata-disk.c,v retrieving revision 1.91 retrieving revision 1.92 diff -u -r1.91 -r1.92 --- ata-disk.c 2001/01/19 13:53:54 1.91 +++ ata-disk.c 2001/01/29 18:00:35 1.92 @@ -25,7 +25,7 @@ * (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF * THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. * - * $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/ata/ata-disk.c,v 1.91 2001/01/19 13:53:54 peter E= xp $ + * $FreeBSD: src/sys/dev/ata/ata-disk.c,v 1.92 2001/01/29 18:00:35 sos Exp= $ */ =20 #include "opt_global.h" @@ -133,10 +133,15 @@ 0, 0, 0, 0, ATA_C_F_ENAB_RCACHE, ATA_WAIT_INTR)) printf("ad%d: enabling readahead cache failed\n", adp->lun); =20 +#if defined(ATA_ENABLE_WC) || defined(ATA_ENABLE_TAGS) if (ata_command(adp->controller, adp->unit, ATA_C_SETFEATURES, 0, 0, 0, 0, ATA_C_F_ENAB_WCACHE, ATA_WAIT_INTR)) printf("ad%d: enabling write cache failed\n", adp->lun); - +#else + if (ata_command(adp->controller, adp->unit, ATA_C_SETFEATURES, + 0, 0, 0, 0, ATA_C_F_DIS_WCACHE, ATA_WAIT_INTR)) + printf("ad%d: disabling write cache failed\n", adp->lun); +#endif /* use DMA if drive & controller supports it */ ata_dmainit(adp->controller, adp->unit, ata_pmode(AD_PARAM), ata_wmode(AD_PARAM), ata_umode(AD_PARA= M)); --FL5UXtIhxfXey3p5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjqChHYACgkQXVIcjOaxUBat+ACeMJNFQX4zP+xZSRxN1fDqcYeJ qTMAoOiVt/Rhx4louR4jTipN1ZavkRmz =ezi+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FL5UXtIhxfXey3p5-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 3:42:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D38B37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 03:42:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 5734 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Feb 2001 11:41:59 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 11:41:59 -0000 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 03:41:59 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Julian Elischer Cc: Matt Dillon , Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <3A826301.8AC3771C@elischer.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yes I did and it made some real differences. I enabled it on /usr as well as /var and mounted /var with the noatime option. Doing not bad for the amount of email it is pushing....thing is this I/O problem never use to be an issue....but with growth constantly happening it has come to a hardware based solution. What I have recommended to the company is a scsi card in that machine with 2 scsi drives.....I will raid 0 then together with ccd or venim and mount it as /var....turn existing /var into extra swap space.....although i may thing of something else...as I don;t think it needs a gig of swap... and that should fix the I/O issue incredibly. Right now I have split up the load also between2 machines so that has helped out incredibly....but systat -vmstat is still always showing 100% disk usage so I will have to remedy the problem. Then I plan on moving all mail back to that one machine and beating the shit right out of that freebsd machine to see what freebsd can really handle. If anyone has some nice newbie docs :) on ccd or venim would be greatly appreciated. On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Julian Elischer wrote: > Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 01:12:33 -0800 > From: Julian Elischer > To: Dan Phoenix > Cc: Matt Dillon , > Andrew Reilly , > Alfred Perlstein , > Andre Oppermann , > Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , > Poul-Henning Kamp , > Charles Randall , Jos Backus , > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) > > Dan Phoenix wrote: > > > > Yes maxusers stopped the dmesg errors....it seemed. Only thing I do not > > like to much about postfix is that it only tries one MX record and then > > does not try any others...."default"....yes there is still backlog with > > #'s I gave you. Right now 8 min to get an email from sending...I have > > another machine here still with qmail on it....going to try to evenly > > distribute the mail between them and see how it goes. I cannot get you > > stats from linux box because i wiped it out with freebsd....I will do > > everything in my power to keep this box freebsd. Why qmail and linux was > > handling the load I will never know now but regardless.....with 600 megs > > being pushed a day with all that included backlog .....how many megs do > > you think one ide drive can handle will be the biggest question to tackle > > over next few days. > > > > > So, after that last discussion here, did you turn on soft updates? > > -- > __--_|\ Julian Elischer > / \ julian@elischer.org > ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 > ---> X_.---._/ > v > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 4: 8:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from syncopation-03.iinet.net.au (syncopation-03.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F54337B4EC for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 04:08:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13646 invoked by uid 666); 8 Feb 2001 12:15:51 -0000 Received: from reggae-02-154.nv.iinet.net.au (HELO elischer.org) (203.59.91.154) by mail.m.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 12:15:51 -0000 Message-ID: <3A828C2C.F7CDA809@elischer.org> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 04:08:12 -0800 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Josef Karthauser Cc: Robert Watson , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O References: <20010208113519.A789@tao.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Josef Karthauser wrote: > > The slowdown during start up appears to be in biowr; this is probably > because of IDE write caching being switched off. More seriously > the vmware hangs during various phases of it's boot process. Write caching is incompaible with soft updates. The drive must NEVER report that something is on disk when it really is not! > > i.e: > > 714 root -14 0 123M 79192K inode 0:45 25.29% 25.29% vmware > > When this happens the whole machine freezes also. Processes run, but > new processes don't get forked. The whole machine appears to be I/O > bound. (What's the 'inode' state?) this sounds like a differnt starvation problem. when it's happenning, what does 'iostat 1' show? (how many transactions per second?) I believe that vmware mmaps a region of memory and then somehow syncs it to disk. (It is certainly doing something like it here). > > The problem is definitely solved by enabling ATA_ENABLE_WC in the kernel > config. What's unclear to me is why the hang in 'inode' with it > switched off. I understand that biowr's would take longer, which is > vmware does as it brings up the virtual machine, but why the hanging > and freezing in 'inode'? maybe syncing mmapped regions locks out other types of activity? Matt? > > +#else > + if (ata_command(adp->controller, adp->unit, ATA_C_SETFEATURES, > + 0, 0, 0, 0, ATA_C_F_DIS_WCACHE, ATA_WAIT_INTR)) > + printf("ad%d: disabling write cache failed\n", adp->lun); > +#endif > we used to do this on the interjet because we ran soft updates. -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 ---> X_.---._/ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 4:12:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from chuggalug.clues.com (chuggalug.clues.com [194.159.1.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD8A37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 04:12:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from geoffb@localhost) by chuggalug.clues.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA62100; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:08:31 GMT (envelope-from geoffb) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:08:31 +0000 From: Geoff Buckingham To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Julian Elischer , Matt Dillon , Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010208120831.C61928@chuggalug.clues.com> References: <3A826301.8AC3771C@elischer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Dan Phoenix on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 03:41:59AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 03:41:59AM -0800, Dan Phoenix wrote: > > > > Yes I did and it made some real differences. I enabled it on /usr as well > as /var and mounted /var with the noatime option. Doing not bad for the > amount of email it is pushing....thing is this I/O problem never use to be > an issue....but with growth constantly happening it has come to a hardware > based solution. What I have recommended to the company is a scsi card in > that machine with 2 scsi drives.....I will raid 0 then together with ccd > or venim and mount it as /var....turn existing /var into extra swap > space.....although i may thing of something else...as I don;t think it > needs a gig of swap... and that should fix the I/O issue incredibly. > Right now I have split up the load also between2 machines so that has > helped out incredibly....but systat -vmstat is still always showing 100% > disk usage so I will have to remedy the problem. Then I plan on moving all > mail back to that one machine and beating the shit right out of that > freebsd machine to see what freebsd can really handle. If anyone has some > nice newbie docs :) on ccd or venim would be greatly appreciated. > > A word of warning on this, when striping on an even number of drives using a power of 2 as as the stripe size, it is very easy to concentrate meta data on one drive, thereby doing away with much of your performance gain. Workarounds include striping at cluster size (16 or 32MB usually) using and odd number of disks (for non raid 3/5), though or experimentation. There should be a number of mails on the subject in the archives of the scsi mailing list, look for myself or greg lehay to find the thread. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 4:18: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from urban.iinet.net.au (urban.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 815A737B491 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 04:17:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from elischer.org (reggae-02-154.nv.iinet.net.au [203.59.91.154]) by urban.iinet.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01324; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:16:29 +0800 Message-ID: <3A828E13.85E60B98@elischer.org> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 04:16:19 -0800 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Matt Dillon , Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Phoenix wrote: > > Yes I did and it made some real differences. I enabled it on /usr as well > as /var and mounted /var with the noatime option. Doing not bad for the > amount of email it is pushing....thing is this I/O problem never use to be > an issue....but with growth constantly happening it has come to a hardware > based solution. What I have recommended to the company is a scsi card in > that machine with 2 scsi drives.....I will raid 0 then together with ccd > or venim and mount it as /var....turn existing /var into extra swap > space.....although i may thing of something else...as I don;t think it > needs a gig of swap... and that should fix the I/O issue incredibly. > Right now I have split up the load also between2 machines so that has > helped out incredibly....but systat -vmstat is still always showing 100% > disk usage so I will have to remedy the problem. Then I plan on moving all > mail back to that one machine and beating the shit right out of that > freebsd machine to see what freebsd can really handle. If anyone has some > nice newbie docs :) on ccd or venim would be greatly appreciated. Don't forget to put logging and other such things on a separate drive.. even a small 1G drive as a secondary will be ok, as long as it has soft updates and doesn't share heads with the work area.. vmstat 1 and iostat 1 output would be intersting. -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 ---> X_.---._/ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 4:27:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [194.242.131.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 684B837B401; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 04:27:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id AC9C5324B; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:27:24 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:27:24 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Julian Elischer Cc: Robert Watson , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O Message-ID: <20010208122724.A701@tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , Julian Elischer , Robert Watson , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010208113519.A789@tao.org.uk> <3A828C2C.F7CDA809@elischer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A828C2C.F7CDA809@elischer.org>; from julian@elischer.org on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 04:08:12AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 04:08:12AM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > Josef Karthauser wrote: > >=20 > > 714 root -14 0 123M 79192K inode 0:45 25.29% 25.29% vmware > >=20 > > When this happens the whole machine freezes also. Processes run, but > > new processes don't get forked. The whole machine appears to be I/O > > bound. (What's the 'inode' state?) > this sounds like a differnt starvation problem. > when it's happenning, what does 'iostat 1' show? > (how many transactions per second?) It looks like below. Joe tty ad0 fd0 cpu tin tout KB/t tps MB/s KB/t tps MB/s us ni sy in id 0 179 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 59 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 2 0 0 2 97 0 59 8.00 66 0.52 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 2 2 95 0 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 1 2 97 0 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 1 2 98 0 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 1 1 98 0 59 8.00 66 0.52 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 79 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 1 2 98 183 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 3 2 95 143 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 3 3 94 197 59 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 1 2 97 48 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 8 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 2 2 96 228 59 8.00 66 0.52 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 2 2 96 40 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 2 2 96 0 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 1 2 97 0 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 1 3 95 0 59 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 1 2 97 tty ad0 fd0 cpu tin tout KB/t tps MB/s KB/t tps MB/s us ni sy in id 0 179 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 2 2 97 0 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 1 2 96 0 59 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 3 97 0 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 0 2 98 0 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 59 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 1 0 0 2 98 0 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 1 2 98 0 59 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 2 2 95 0 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 1 3 96 0 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 2 0 1 2 95 0 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 59 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 59 8.00 66 0.52 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 60 8.00 66 0.52 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 0 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjqCkKwACgkQXVIcjOaxUBZXKACeIHaYQRyE7ReyHeoY9J4rFxJm MBAAoMP7fiFRqjV00Q7Rcc5mXHGPRsGM =SBRa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pWyiEgJYm5f9v55/-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 4:50:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E75D537B491 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 04:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 15557 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Feb 2001 12:49:52 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 12:49:52 -0000 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 04:49:52 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Geoff Buckingham Cc: Julian Elischer , Matt Dillon , Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <20010208120831.C61928@chuggalug.clues.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG negative on that houston :) http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=52705+54899+/usr/local/www/db/text/2000/freebsd-scsi/20001008.freebsd-scsi ..i think maybe thread you are talking about. Not to much info I could find on specifically on what you are talking about. ...but again are you talking about venim or ccd? I'll keep cluster solution in mind for the 2 disks. On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Geoff Buckingham wrote: > Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:08:31 +0000 > From: Geoff Buckingham > To: Dan Phoenix > Cc: Julian Elischer , > Matt Dillon , > Andrew Reilly , > Alfred Perlstein , > Andre Oppermann , > Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , > Poul-Henning Kamp , > Charles Randall , Jos Backus , > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) > > On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 03:41:59AM -0800, Dan Phoenix wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes I did and it made some real differences. I enabled it on /usr as well > > as /var and mounted /var with the noatime option. Doing not bad for the > > amount of email it is pushing....thing is this I/O problem never use to be > > an issue....but with growth constantly happening it has come to a hardware > > based solution. What I have recommended to the company is a scsi card in > > that machine with 2 scsi drives.....I will raid 0 then together with ccd > > or venim and mount it as /var....turn existing /var into extra swap > > space.....although i may thing of something else...as I don;t think it > > needs a gig of swap... and that should fix the I/O issue incredibly. > > Right now I have split up the load also between2 machines so that has > > helped out incredibly....but systat -vmstat is still always showing 100% > > disk usage so I will have to remedy the problem. Then I plan on moving all > > mail back to that one machine and beating the shit right out of that > > freebsd machine to see what freebsd can really handle. If anyone has some > > nice newbie docs :) on ccd or venim would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > A word of warning on this, when striping on an even number of drives > using a power of 2 as as the stripe size, it is very easy to concentrate > meta data on one drive, thereby doing away with much of your performance gain. > > Workarounds include striping at cluster size (16 or 32MB usually) using and > odd number of disks (for non raid 3/5), though or experimentation. > > There should be a number of mails on the subject in the archives of the > scsi mailing list, look for myself or greg lehay to find the thread. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 4:58:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from syncopation-01.iinet.net.au (syncopation-01.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B583737B65D for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 04:58:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 9349 invoked by uid 666); 8 Feb 2001 13:05:15 -0000 Received: from reggae-13-123.nv.iinet.net.au (HELO elischer.org) (203.59.79.123) by mail.m.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 13:05:15 -0000 Message-ID: <3A8297E9.78B93F25@elischer.org> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 04:58:17 -0800 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Josef Karthauser Cc: Robert Watson , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O References: <20010208113519.A789@tao.org.uk> <3A828C2C.F7CDA809@elischer.org> <20010208122724.A701@tao.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Josef Karthauser wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 04:08:12AM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > > Josef Karthauser wrote: > > > > > > 714 root -14 0 123M 79192K inode 0:45 25.29% 25.29% vmware > > > > > > When this happens the whole machine freezes also. Processes run, but > > > new processes don't get forked. The whole machine appears to be I/O > > > bound. (What's the 'inode' state?) > > this sounds like a differnt starvation problem. > > when it's happenning, what does 'iostat 1' show? > > (how many transactions per second?) > > It looks like below. Looks like some way of clustering this might achieve a lot. what does systat -vmstat or vmstat 1 show? Better still, I guess we could do a linux-truss and see what it's doing... > Joe > > tty ad0 fd0 cpu > tin tout KB/t tps MB/s KB/t tps MB/s us ni sy in id > 0 179 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 > 0 59 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 > 0 60 8.00 68 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 0 0 0 2 98 > 0 60 8.00 67 0.53 0.00 0 0.00 2 0 0 2 97 -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 ---> X_.---._/ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 5:15:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from heechee.tobez.org (254.adsl0.ryv.worldonline.dk [213.237.10.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8EA37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 05:15:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by heechee.tobez.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2F678548E; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:15:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:15:00 +0100 From: Anton Berezin To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Matt Dillon , Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) Message-ID: <20010208141500.A65837@heechee.tobez.org> References: <200102072131.f17LVQv94265@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dphoenix@bravenet.com on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:41:29PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 01:41:29PM -0800, Dan Phoenix wrote: > Only thing I do not like to much about postfix is that it only tries > one MX record and then does not try any others.... Have a look at smtp_connect_timeout parameter (documented at /usr/local/etc/postfix/sample-smtp.cf). Cheers, \Anton. -- May the tuna salad be with you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 5:25:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7E4737B65D; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 05:25:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA67849; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:24:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Julian Elischer Cc: Josef Karthauser , Robert Watson , Brian Somers , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O References: <20010208113519.A789@tao.org.uk> <3A828C2C.F7CDA809@elischer.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 Feb 2001 14:24:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: Julian Elischer's message of "Thu, 08 Feb 2001 04:08:12 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer writes: > I believe that vmware mmaps a region of memory and then somehow syncs > it to disk. (It is certainly doing something like it here). Theory: VMWare mmaps a region of memory corresponding to the virtual machine's "physical" RAM, then touches every page during startup. Unless some form of clustering is done, this causes 16384 write operations for a 64 MB virtual machine... DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 6:35:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 349E137B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 06:34:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA68066; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:34:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Matthew Emmerton Cc: Dan Langille , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: syscall kernel modules on 3.0-release References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 Feb 2001 15:34:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: Matthew Emmerton's message of "Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:52:55 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Emmerton writes: > That might work, but that requires boss/manager to have some idea of the > technical implications of a) upgrading and b) remaining with old > OS. Depending on the organization, the situation may be > next-to-impossible. (And no saying I-told-you-so when it eventually > breaks.) Get a better job. Skilled IT workers are rare enough that they shouldn't need to put up with such crap, and shouldn't have any trouble getting a new job when the crap starts flying. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 6:48:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [194.242.131.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F8B37B503; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 06:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id B2031311F; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:47:59 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:47:59 +0000 From: Josef Karthauser To: Julian Elischer Cc: Robert Watson , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O Message-ID: <20010208144759.A7913@tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , Julian Elischer , Robert Watson , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <20010208113519.A789@tao.org.uk> <3A828C2C.F7CDA809@elischer.org> <20010208122724.A701@tao.org.uk> <3A8297E9.78B93F25@elischer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="envbJBWh7q8WU6mo" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A8297E9.78B93F25@elischer.org>; from julian@elischer.org on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 04:58:17AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --envbJBWh7q8WU6mo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 04:58:17AM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: >=20 > Looks like some way of clustering this might achieve a lot. >=20 > what does systat -vmstat or vmstat 1 > show? > Better still, I guess we could do a linux-truss > and see what it's doing... I believe that it's strace under linux. If someone can provide me with a binary of this tool I'll happily run it here and see what vmware's doing. Joe --envbJBWh7q8WU6mo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjqCsZ8ACgkQXVIcjOaxUBbC/wCgjgfWeOZiQcMI+m5341WegDkP APUAn2Ka3u9dI24ONeLMtlwjeE7sxk3h =759q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --envbJBWh7q8WU6mo-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 6:51:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 30DEE37B4EC; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 06:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 8 Feb 2001 14:50:48 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:50:48 +0000 From: David Malone To: Josef Karthauser Cc: Julian Elischer , Robert Watson , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O Message-ID: <20010208145048.A10252@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <20010208113519.A789@tao.org.uk> <3A828C2C.F7CDA809@elischer.org> <20010208122724.A701@tao.org.uk> <3A8297E9.78B93F25@elischer.org> <20010208144759.A7913@tao.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010208144759.A7913@tao.org.uk>; from joe@tao.org.uk on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 02:47:59PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 02:47:59PM +0000, Josef Karthauser wrote: > > what does systat -vmstat or vmstat 1 > > show? > > Better still, I guess we could do a linux-truss > > and see what it's doing... > > I believe that it's strace under linux. If someone can provide me > with a binary of this tool I'll happily run it here and see what > vmware's doing. You could use FreeBSD ktrace and then the linux_kdump port. David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 8:42:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bacardi.torrentnet.com (bacardi.torrentnet.com [198.78.51.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BD237B491; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from torrentnet.com (utica.torrentnet.com [198.78.51.68]) by bacardi.torrentnet.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f18GfxL03533; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:41:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A82CC57.3D1F5AB4@torrentnet.com> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:41:59 -0500 From: Eric Fiterman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: multiple IP addresses in /etc/hosts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi: Is it possible to have an application like ping or telnet iterate through IP addresses for a given hostname, if a previous attempt fails? For example: in /etc/hosts: --------------- 0.0.0.1 testhost 0.0.0.2 testhost 0.0.0.3 testhost --------------- If I attempt to 'ping testhost', and the first entry (0.0.0.1) fails, is there anything to configure which would allow an automatic attempt to ping 0.0.0.2? Is this possible? Thanks Eric To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 8:47:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cody.jharris.com (cody.jharris.com [205.238.128.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB0B37B401; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (nick@localhost) by cody.jharris.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f18H91c99714; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:09:01 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nick@rogness.net) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:09:01 -0600 (CST) From: Nick Rogness X-Sender: nick@cody.jharris.com To: Eric Fiterman Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: multiple IP addresses in /etc/hosts In-Reply-To: <3A82CC57.3D1F5AB4@torrentnet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Eric Fiterman wrote: > Hi: > > Is it possible to have an application like ping or telnet iterate > through IP addresses for a given hostname, if a previous attempt fails? > > For example: > > in /etc/hosts: > --------------- > 0.0.0.1 testhost > 0.0.0.2 testhost > 0.0.0.3 testhost > --------------- > > If I attempt to 'ping testhost', and the first entry (0.0.0.1) fails, is > there anything to configure which would allow an automatic attempt to > ping 0.0.0.2? Is this possible? AFAIK, not with /etc/hosts. You could do round-robin DNS with named but it will never be 100% of what you want to do. DNS does not keep track of which hosts are dead or alive. Nick Rogness - Keep on routing in a Free World... "FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 8:53:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (pool147-tch-1.Sofia.0rbitel.net [212.95.170.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9807A37B491 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 36070 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Feb 2001 16:51:50 -0000 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:51:50 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: Eric Fiterman Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: multiple IP addresses in /etc/hosts Message-ID: <20010208185150.B35971@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Eric Fiterman , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <3A82CC57.3D1F5AB4@torrentnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A82CC57.3D1F5AB4@torrentnet.com>; from fiterman@torrentnet.com on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 11:41:59AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 11:41:59AM -0500, Eric Fiterman wrote: > Hi: > > Is it possible to have an application like ping or telnet iterate > through IP addresses for a given hostname, if a previous attempt fails? > > For example: > > in /etc/hosts: > --------------- > 0.0.0.1 testhost > 0.0.0.2 testhost > 0.0.0.3 testhost > --------------- > > If I attempt to 'ping testhost', and the first entry (0.0.0.1) fails, is > there anything to configure which would allow an automatic attempt to > ping 0.0.0.2? Is this possible? I do not think that any of the applications in the base system have this ability. The only place I've seen it (and am using it in several home-grown apps) is in DJB's ucspi-tcp package (sysutils/ucspi-tcp, or http://cr.yp.to/ucspi-tcp.html), in the 'tcpclient' utility. If you specify a destination hostname that resolves to several IP addresses, tcpclient shall try each one of them in turn until one is successful. You can specify the timeout and the retry count. I guess one could write a telnet client that runs under tcpclient, or adapt the one in the base system to read from fd 6 and write to fd 7 (or the other way round, I forget). Come to think of it, adapting the base system telnet client to read/write to fd's specified as cmdline options might be a nice idea.. I just might look into it. G'luck, Peter -- This sentence no verb. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 9: 9:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from light.imasy.or.jp (light.imasy.or.jp [202.227.24.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C7F437B401; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:09:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by light.imasy.or.jp (8.11.2+3.4W/3.7W-light) with UUCP id f18H8hm27341; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 02:08:43 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from ume@mahoroba.org) Received: from peace.mahoroba.org (IDENT:9yoG7SvZQ1EqV9nZqxvGP3k0JbbMwZbE6WHWI/wuuDp/qout2bOHWorXPjzGCDGG@peace.mahoroba.org [3ffe:505:2:0:200:f8ff:fe05:3eae]) by mail.mahoroba.org (8.11.2/8.11.2/chaos) with ESMTP/inet6 id f18H6WP19269; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 02:06:32 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from ume@mahoroba.org) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 02:06:31 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20010209.020631.55492622.ume@mahoroba.org> To: roam@orbitel.bg Cc: fiterman@torrentnet.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: multiple IP addresses in /etc/hosts From: Hajimu UMEMOTO In-Reply-To: <20010208185150.B35971@ringworld.oblivion.bg> References: <3A82CC57.3D1F5AB4@torrentnet.com> <20010208185150.B35971@ringworld.oblivion.bg> X-Mailer: xcite1.38> Mew version 1.95b97 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 =?iso-2022-jp?B?KBskQjJWMWMbKEIp?= X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.imasy.org/~ume/publickey.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 0C 53 FC 5D D0 37 91 05 D0 B3 EF 36 9B 6A BC X-URL: http://www.imasy.org/~ume/ X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:51:50 +0200 >>>>> Peter Pentchev said: roam> I do not think that any of the applications in the base system have roam> this ability. The only place I've seen it (and am using it in several roam> home-grown apps) is in DJB's ucspi-tcp package (sysutils/ucspi-tcp, or roam> http://cr.yp.to/ucspi-tcp.html), in the 'tcpclient' utility. IPv6 aware applications in base system such as telnet, ssh... do round-robbin so that it can be fall back to use IPv4 if IPv6 connection is fail. -- Hajimu UMEMOTO @ Internet Mutual Aid Society Yokohama, Japan ume@mahoroba.org ume@bisd.hitachi.co.jp ume@{,jp.}FreeBSD.org http://www.imasy.org/~ume/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 9:16:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from midas.ifour.com.br (unknown [200.238.229.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 915AD37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:16:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22981 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 10:11:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ifour.com.br) (192.168.1.11) by 192.168.1.10 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 10:11:46 -0000 Message-ID: <3A827FCA.448BDE65@ifour.com.br> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:15:22 +0000 From: Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nick Rogness Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: building boot floppies set References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nick Rogness wrote: > > On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Gustavo Vieira Goncalves Coelho Rios wrote: > > > May some one give me some help where i can find documentation on > > building my own boot floppy disk for freebsd ? > > Most info about the FreeBSD OS can be obtained via the website > at: > > http://www.freebsd.org > > For your particular question, the doc can be found at: > > http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/install-guide.html#INSTALL-FLOPPIES > > For future reference, questions like these should be sent to: > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > Best of Luck! > > Nick Rogness > - Keep on routing in a Free World... > "FreeBSD: The Power to Serve " Hi gentleman, Thanks for your help, but i guess you did not get what i meant! I need to include support for a scsi controller that is not builtin the boot.flp, so i have to build a boot.flp that includes the driver. That's it! I am not refereing about installing the boot set onto diskettes! Thanks a lot for your time and cooperation. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 9:17:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6170637B69B for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:16:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f18HG4T07310; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:16:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:16:04 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102081716.f18HG4T07310@earth.backplane.com> To: Geoff Buckingham Cc: Dan Phoenix , Julian Elischer , Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A826301.8AC3771C@elischer.org> <20010208120831.C61928@chuggalug.clues.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :A word of warning on this, when striping on an even number of drives :using a power of 2 as as the stripe size, it is very easy to concentrate :meta data on one drive, thereby doing away with much of your performance gain. : :Workarounds include striping at cluster size (16 or 32MB usually) using and :odd number of disks (for non raid 3/5), though or experimentation. : :There should be a number of mails on the subject in the archives of the :scsi mailing list, look for myself or greg lehay to find the thread. I usually use a stripe size of 1152 for precisely that reason. It's relatively easy to test whether the metadata is being distributed between the two drives reasonably, just look at the drive lights while you are newfs'ing. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 9:19: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D7DB37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f18HHaY07353; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:17:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:17:36 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102081717.f18HHaY07353@earth.backplane.com> To: Julian Elischer Cc: Dan Phoenix , Andrew Reilly , Alfred Perlstein , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A828E13.85E60B98@elischer.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :Don't forget to put logging and other such things on a separate drive.. :even a small 1G drive as a secondary will be ok, as long as it has soft :updates and doesn't share heads with the work area.. : :vmstat 1 and iostat 1 output would be intersting. : :-- : __--_|\ Julian Elischer That's probably a little overkill. Since the log files are not being fsync()'d, they won't generally interfere with other operations. The real killer here is the fsync()ing that the mail system is doing on every file, but that's the price you pay for reliable crash recovery. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 9:19:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (pool147-tch-1.Sofia.0rbitel.net [212.95.170.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C173137B4EC for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:18:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 36353 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Feb 2001 17:17:10 -0000 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:17:10 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: Hajimu UMEMOTO Cc: fiterman@torrentnet.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: multiple IP addresses in /etc/hosts Message-ID: <20010208191710.C35971@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Hajimu UMEMOTO , fiterman@torrentnet.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <3A82CC57.3D1F5AB4@torrentnet.com> <20010208185150.B35971@ringworld.oblivion.bg> <20010209.020631.55492622.ume@mahoroba.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010209.020631.55492622.ume@mahoroba.org>; from ume@mahoroba.org on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 02:06:31AM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 02:06:31AM +0900, Hajimu UMEMOTO wrote: > >>>>> On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:51:50 +0200 > > IPv6 aware applications in base system such as telnet, ssh... do > round-robbin so that it can be fall back to use IPv4 if IPv6 > connection is fail. Errr.. oops. I must have been on something. Of course base system telnet does round-robin. Just noticed it yesterday, when I tried telnet'ting to port 25 of a multi-addressed MX by name, and it tried all addresses in turn. So half the original question is answered :) I do not really think such behavior belongs in 'ping' though, especially seeing as ping is usually used as a diagnostics tool. If a host does not respond, this might be temporary, or due to timeouts, or due to some routing/interface problem.. most of the time, I do want to see how it does as time goes by :) G'luck, Peter -- This would easier understand fewer had omitted. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 9:34:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7561537B491 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:34:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f18HXTp07738; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:33:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:33:29 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102081733.f18HXTp07738@earth.backplane.com> To: Tony Finch Cc: Greg Black , Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Tony Finch Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <20010207110208.G74296@hand.dotat.at> <20010208081542.M74296@hand.dotat.at> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :>> already existing? :> :>Why not just read the man page for rename(2) before making :>suggestions? : :I did. I'm glad I was right that it's deleting the destination that is :the problem. I would have thought it would be easy to be sure that :spool filenames are unique, but OTOH I guess that's not completely :robust. : :Tony. :-- :f.a.n.finch fanf@covalent.net dot@dotat.at Yes, rename() will 'delete' the destination file if it previously existed. Of course, if the spool file names are unique then you are not in danger of deleting anything on the destination. If softupdates is turned on, rename() is 100% safe -- softupdates will guarentee that the file will exist in one directory or the other, and never get lost. The absolute worst crash-case that can occur is for the file to wind up in both directories (as if a hardlink had been issued). There is no need for a link() operation followed by a remove(). -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 10:28: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winnie.fit.edu (fit.edu [163.118.5.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63A6337B6A3 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:27:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from netzero.net (rm305w-b.campbell.fit.edu [163.118.216.112]) by winnie.fit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA29763 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:28:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A82E551.6814139B@netzero.net> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:28:33 -0500 From: Kevin Brunelle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel editing tools. References: <20010207150843.R26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <20010207153513.U26076@fw.wintelcom.net> <3A81E786.25B66250@netzero.net> <20010208102114.A71678@icon.icon.bg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just want to say thanks for all your help. I really like cscope and it was almost exactly what I was looking for. I got several other great ideas from some people. I like using a web browser for code browsing when I just want to poke around and kill time. Just so you all know, vi has an overwhelming majority of support on this list -- which is a great thing because it is my favorite editor. And, several open terminal windows seem to be the most popular way to go about kernel hacking; which, is almost exactly what I was doing before. cscope really helps to get things organized and find weird symbols. Well, thanks again -- and happy hacking. -Kevin Brunelle -- Use the Source Luke! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 10:41:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8D4137B6B2; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:40:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from amrelay2.boi.hp.com (amrelay2.boi.hp.com [15.56.8.41]) by palrel1.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3199E4F7; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:40:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from xboibrg1.boi.hp.com (xboibrg1.boi.hp.com [15.56.8.167]) by amrelay2.boi.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_18979)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) with ESMTP id LAA26100; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:40:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by xboibrg1.boi.hp.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <1HY2AZ50>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:40:50 -0700 Message-ID: From: "DINKEY,GENE (HP-Loveland,ex1)" To: "'Eric Fiterman'" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: multiple IP addresses in /etc/hosts Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:39:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Fiterman [mailto:fiterman@torrentnet.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:42 AM > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: multiple IP addresses in /etc/hosts > > > Hi: > > Is it possible to have an application like ping or telnet iterate > through IP addresses for a given hostname, if a previous > attempt fails? > > For example: > > in /etc/hosts: > --------------- > 0.0.0.1 testhost > 0.0.0.2 testhost > 0.0.0.3 testhost > --------------- > > If I attempt to 'ping testhost', and the first entry > (0.0.0.1) fails, is > there anything to configure which would allow an automatic attempt to > ping 0.0.0.2? Is this possible? Not exactly sure what your trying to accomplish - just tryuing to verify that the ip addresses are operating the way they should? nmap will probably do what you need, it's a network scanner designed to do things like scan whole subnets. You will find it in ports/security/nmap IIRC, not only is it a great network scanner but it will do other tricks like jump through flaming hoops and TCP thumbprint remote OS's. Gene Dinkey aka Master of my domain aka gder@gder.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 11:22:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from k2.jozsef.kando.hu (k2.jozsef.kando.hu [193.224.40.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7930937B65D for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:22:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 30717 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Feb 2001 19:15:42 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 19:15:42 -0000 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:15:42 +0100 (CET) From: Attila Nagy X-X-Sender: To: Cc: Subject: mount_null and jail Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I am trying to do the following setup: /jail /jail-run The first is a directory in a filesystem and holds the necessary files to run the given application. The second directory is also a simple directory but /jail mounted into it with mount_null. The command I use to mount the first dir into the second is: mount_null -o ro /jail/something /jail-run/something The purpose of this setup is to create jails within a standard UFS filesystem and to mount the directories read-only and run jailed applications in it, on a read-only partition. This wayI don't need several partitions, mounted RO and I don't have to create loopback filesystems or to do other magic (like a mounted ISO). The problem. When I start jail I often get page faults. Also I want to chroot() in the jail (ftp daemon) but it page faults in all cases. So outside# jail /jail-run/something something 127.0.0.1 /bin/sh often works and the jail starts (/jail-run is a NULL filesystem), but inside# chroot drops me a page fault and restarts the machine in every cases. I've tried out this on 4.2-RELEASE and 4.2-STABLE (05/02/2001) -RELEASE with a GENERIC and -STABLE with a custom kernel and all of them fail to survive jail and chroot on a NULL FS. Could somebody give me hints on this? I think it's a general problem and the problem is the use of the NULL FS, but how could I avoid this kind of crashes? ps: I am subscribed only to freebsd-stable so if you write to -hackers please CC me the message... Thanks in advance, -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attila Nagy e-mail: Attila.Nagy@fsn.hu Budapest Polytechnic (BMF.HU) @work: +361 210 1415 (194) H-1084 Budapest, Tavaszmezo u. 15-17. cell.: +3630 306 6758 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 12: 0:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aesthetic.detachment.org (aesthetic.detachment.org [208.11.244.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F25C437B6C2 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:00:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rtci.com (helix@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aesthetic.detachment.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f18K0OJ51021; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:00:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from tstromberg@rtci.com) Message-ID: <3A82FAD7.B7ACA5FD@rtci.com> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:00:23 -0500 From: Thomas =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6mberg?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Phoenix , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vinum and (now) postfix References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Phoenix wrote: > > Yes maxusers stopped the dmesg errors....it seemed. Only thing I do not > like to much about postfix is that it only tries one MX record and then > does not try any others.. (slightly off topic) In my experience, postfix is very nice about trying multiple MX records. It should try every MX record twice. I normally wouldn't have posted, but yesterday I remember seeing how many connections it tried to do every time it delivered mail through fedex: tstromberg@calamari (~)% host -t mx fedex.com fedex.com mail is handled (pri=100) by mapper.mail.fedex.com fedex.com mail is handled (pri=200) by smtp.zmd.fedex.com fedex.com mail is handled (pri=300) by smtp.dmz.fedex.com tstromberg@calamari (~)% gzcat /var/log/maillog.0.gz|grep 76000 Feb 7 17:19:25 calamari postfix/smtp[76000]: connect to mapper.mail.fedex.com[199.81.10.25]: Connection refused (port 25) Feb 7 17:19:25 calamari postfix/smtp[76000]: connect to mapper.mail.fedex.com[199.81.10.26]: Connection refused (port 25) Feb 7 17:19:25 calamari postfix/smtp[76000]: connect to smtp.zmd.fedex.com[199.81.77.40]: Connection refused (port 25) Feb 7 17:19:25 calamari postfix/smtp[76000]: connect to smtp.zmd.fedex.com[199.81.77.41]: Connection refused (port 25) Feb 7 17:19:25 calamari postfix/smtp[76000]: connect to smtp.zmd.fedex.com[199.82.159.10]: Connection refused (port 25) Feb 7 17:19:25 calamari postfix/smtp[76000]: connect to smtp.zmd.fedex.com[199.82.159.11]: Connection refused (port 25) Feb 7 17:19:26 calamari postfix/smtp[76000]: 55E3C1C9B1: to=, relay=smtp.dmz.fedex.com[199.81.194.38], delay=1, status=sent (250 QAA09558 Message accepted for delivery) This is with the postfix 20010204 snapshot. I can't guarantee any other versions. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- name> thomas r. stromberg work> tstromberg@rtci.com pos> senior systems administrator home> thomas@stromberg.org corp> research triangle commerce (icc.net) web> http://chaotical.ly/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- earth has a lot of things other folks might want, like the whole planet -- william s. burroughs To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 12: 3:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peitho.fxp.org (peitho.fxp.org [209.26.95.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5234837B6A3 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:03:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by peitho.fxp.org (Postfix, from userid 1501) id 907FB13614; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:03:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:03:02 -0500 From: Chris Faulhaber To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thomas_Str=F6mberg?= Cc: Dan Phoenix , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vinum and (now) postfix Message-ID: <20010208150302.A62458@peitho.fxp.org> Mail-Followup-To: Chris Faulhaber , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thomas_Str=F6mberg?= , Dan Phoenix , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <3A82FAD7.B7ACA5FD@rtci.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A82FAD7.B7ACA5FD@rtci.com>; from tstromberg@rtci.com on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 03:00:23PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 03:00:23PM -0500, Thomas Strömberg wrote: > Dan Phoenix wrote: > > > > Yes maxusers stopped the dmesg errors....it seemed. Only thing I do not > > like to much about postfix is that it only tries one MX record and then > > does not try any others.. > > (slightly off topic) > > In my experience, postfix is very nice about trying multiple MX records. > It should try every MX record twice. I normally wouldn't have posted, > but yesterday I remember seeing how many connections it tried to do > every time it delivered mail through fedex: > He may be referring to this FAQ entry: http://www.postfix.org/faq.html#skip_greeting -- Chris D. Faulhaber - jedgar@fxp.org - jedgar@FreeBSD.org -------------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD: The Power To Serve - http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 12:11:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.interlog.com (bretweir.total.net [154.11.89.176]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 38D8937B6AB for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:11:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 23703 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 20:11:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vws3.interlog.com) (207.34.202.29) by bretweir.total.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 20:11:37 -0000 Received: by vws3.interlog.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id PAA29813; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:11:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:11:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200102082011.PAA29813@vws3.interlog.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: FreeBSD Security Advisories Subject: FreeBSD Ports Security Advisory: FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ============================================================================= FreeBSD-SA-01:INSERT_NUMBER_HERE Security Advisory FreeBSD, Inc. Topic: FreeBSD on record to set most advisory releases for year 2001 Category: All Announced: 2001-02-07 Credits: sil@loopback.antioffline.com http://www.antioffline.com Vendor status: Developers sleeping right now FreeBSD only: Yes I. Background FreeBSD is the most robust chopperating sysdumb in the world and we mean it. Our TCP stack will kick your TCP stacks hynee. Currently we are releasing an advisory every 1.95 days which means we are bound to surpass Microsoft. II. Problem Description We normally do not assess security when creating the ports distribution often allowing anyone to build any program we decide to run in the ports directory. Recently we have noticed that we can no longer fool users into thinking because we provide checksumming for the programs, that they will be secure. Unlinke other operating systems and the developers of them who audit their ports, we feel it is not our problem if someone accessess your system because we're too lazy to do things right the first time. III. Impact Obviously anyone can end up control your machine or worse. IV. Workaround We will not be mentioning the ultra secure OpenBSD operating system since we feel it is not our problem and does not help to promote a better OS than our own. V. Solution One of the following: 1) Rub a magic lamp and wait for the security genie to fix it. 2) Download NSA Linux so you too can have miniscule backdoors in it which you won't see. 3) Pray to the hacker god Kevin Mitnick for assistance. 4) Install a more secure O(penBSD)S NOTE: FreeBSD developers are now red faced VI. Shouts Hard Lee Strange Mike Hunt Ivana Swallows Mike Hock Dick Famous Kathie Lee Gifford To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 12:27:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [194.222.196.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1A9B37B6AC; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:26:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f18KRW232717; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:27:32 GMT (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f18KT7A03220; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:29:07 GMT (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200102082029.f18KT7A03220@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Josef Karthauser , Julian Elischer , Robert Watson , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Brian Somers , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O In-Reply-To: Message from Josef Karthauser of "Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:47:59 GMT." <20010208144759.A7913@tao.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 20:29:07 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 04:58:17AM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > >=20 > > Looks like some way of clustering this might achieve a lot. > >=20 > > what does systat -vmstat or vmstat 1 > > show? > > Better still, I guess we could do a linux-truss > > and see what it's doing... > > I believe that it's strace under linux. If someone can provide me > with a binary of this tool I'll happily run it here and see what > vmware's doing. > > Joe The problem seems to have gone away after this (kindly pointed out to me by Maxim after my other post about xsane dropping cores): : Subject: cvs commit: src/lib/libc/stdio findfp.c : Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:34:50 -0800 (PST) : From: Maxim Sobolev : To: cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org : : sobomax 2001/02/07 09:34:49 PST : : Modified files: : lib/libc/stdio findfp.c : Log: : Fix a f^Hdamn typo, which prevented to fopen() more that 17 files at once. : : Tested by: knu, sobomax and other #bsdcode'rs : : Revision Changes Path : 1.9 +2 -2 src/lib/libc/stdio/findfp.c -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 12:38:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.dellroad.org (adsl-63-194-81-26.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.194.81.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49ACB37B6C5; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:38:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from curve.dellroad.org (curve.dellroad.org [10.1.1.30]) by InterJet.dellroad.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA62242; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:38:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from archie@localhost) by curve.dellroad.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA56927; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:38:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <200102082038.MAA56927@curve.dellroad.org> Subject: new /etc/malloc.conf option To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, phk@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:38:38 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL77 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here's an idea for a new /etc/malloc.conf option to help with debugging... I'm interested in what other people think. The option would have the effect of setting a "failure probability" P between 0.0 and 1.0 such that any malloc()/realloc() operation would fail with probability P. Sometimes I've implemented this kind of thing manually to test code robustness and it's been very helpful in catching obscure bugs. You can't do this with a single letter, but maybe we could do something like this using a number between 0..100: $ ln -s F5AJ /etc/malloc.conf Then in the malloc code read out the 'F5' at startup and set failure_prob to 5%... static u_int failure_prob; /* a number between 0 and 100 */ void * malloc(size_t len) { u_int failure_index; if (failure_prob != 0 && (random() % 100) < failure_prob) { errno = ENOMEM; return (NULL) } } This would then give you a 1% failure probability. By using random(), the exact failure can be reproduced by the application by setting the same seed with srandom(). We might want to use a more precise range, e.g., 0..1000000 instead of 0..100. -Archie __________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Packet Design * http://www.packetdesign.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 12:49:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 618) id 7EBF237B6CB; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:49:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: patch for if_sis to support SiS630E, need testers To: hardware@freebsd.org, network@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:49:32 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010208204932.7EBF237B6CB@hub.freebsd.org> From: wpaul@FreeBSD.ORG (Bill Paul) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/SiS/sis.diff This patch adds support for reading the station address from the ATC CMOS RAM for board with the SiS 630E chipset with integrated SiS 900 ethernet. I've verified that the patch compiles and doesn't make the system explode, and it should have no effect on standalone SiS 900 devices, however I don't currently have access to a host with this chipset in it so I'm not 100% positive it does the right thing. Those who have such hardware running 4.2-RELEASE, 4.2-STABLE or -current, please apply the patch and let me know if the MAC address is read correctly. Note that the changes are hidden under #ifdef __i386__. The hacks to make this work are specific to the x86 architecture, and the SiS 630E chipset is only for x86 motherboards anyway. PCI adapters based on the SiS 900 should still work on the alpha. -Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 13: 1: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (fw2.aub.dk [195.24.1.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7526E37B6D5 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:00:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f18L0Lw18306; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:00:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Archie Cobbs Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new /etc/malloc.conf option In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:38:38 PST." <200102082038.MAA56927@curve.dellroad.org> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 22:00:21 +0100 Message-ID: <18304.981666021@critter> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200102082038.MAA56927@curve.dellroad.org>, Archie Cobbs writes: >Here's an idea for a new /etc/malloc.conf option to help with >debugging... I'm interested in what other people think. > >The option would have the effect of setting a "failure probability" >P between 0.0 and 1.0 such that any malloc()/realloc() operation would >fail with probability P. It's a good idea, but it needs improvement. If malloc() fails with a finite probability you will never get to test the end-game for most processes. Ideally you would give malloc a flag to say 'L'ook for failure, and some covert channel would be dug through which you can control the probability in batch or realtime mode. Either way, I'm not sure it belongs in phkmalloc() -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 13:25:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 618) id E8D7D37B6AA; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:25:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: call for testers: port aggregation netgraph module To: hackers@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:25:09 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010208212509.E8D7D37B6AA@hub.freebsd.org> From: wpaul@FreeBSD.ORG (Bill Paul) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/FEC/4.x/fec.tar.gz http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/FEC/5.x/fec.tar.gz This is a call for testers for a netgraph module that can be used to aggregate 2 or 4 ethernet interfaces into a single interface. Basically, it lets you do things like the following: # kldload ./ng_fec.ko # ngctl mkpeer fec dummy fec # ngctl msg fec0: add_iface '"dc0"' # ngctl msg fec0: add_iface '"dc1"' # ngctl msg fec0: add_iface '"dc2"' # ngctl msg fec0: add_iface '"dc3"' # ngctl msg fec0: set_mode_inet The fec module will work with *any* combination of interfaces, not just multiport ethernet cards, however the port failover mechanism will not work unless the interface supports ifmedia and is able to report the link status. Cards that use the fxp, de, xl, tl, rl, sis, dc, wb, ste, sf, vr, ti and sk drivers should work. Yes, that means you can aggregate RealTek cards and gigabit ethernet cards together. The channel bonding is done using the Cisco fast etherchannel mechanism. The default hashing mechanism uses the MAC address, however you can select IP address hashing as well. IPv4 and IPv6 address *should* work, though I must admit I've been using IPv4 until now. If someone actually has a Cisco switch that implements fast ethetchannel, I'd be interested to know if it works with this module. At the moment, my test environment consist of two machines with multiport ethernet cards wired up using four crossover cables. Each link is checked once every second to see if the link is still up. An attempt to send a packet over a dead link will cause the packet to be shifted over to the next link in the bundle. There are tarballs for 4.x and 5.x systems. The 4.x tarball should work on 4.2-RELEASE or later. The 5.x one will work on -current. Both source and pre-compiled modules for x86 are provided. This code should work on the alpha as well. You can create more than one bundle by using more than one mkpeer command with ngctl(8). You can delete interfaces from a bundle using the del_iface command, which works just like the add_iface command. The fec0 pseudo-interface will inherit the MAC address of the first real interface to be added to the bundle, and that same MAC address will be propagated to all subsequent interfaces that are added. The MAC addresses are restored when an interface is removed from a bundle. Once the bundle is created, you can manipulate the fec0 interface as though it were a real ethernet interface. You must have either 2 or 4 NICs in the bundle. Share, enjoy, test, and report back to me any problems you encounter. -Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 13:59: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C954F37B69C; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:58:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from xor.obsecurity.org ([63.207.60.15]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G8G00CH7KNJDE@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:50:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by xor.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AB1DB66B62; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:52:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:52:51 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: mount_null and jail In-reply-to: ; from bra@fsn.hu on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 08:15:42PM +0100 To: Attila Nagy Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010208135251.A48378@mollari.cthul.hu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FCuugMFkClbJLl1L" Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --FCuugMFkClbJLl1L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 08:15:42PM +0100, Attila Nagy wrote: > When I start jail I often get page faults. > Also I want to chroot() in the jail (ftp daemon) but it page faults in all > cases. nullfs is broken in all versions prior to 5.0-CURRENT. This is even documented in the manpage. I don't know if there are any plans to backport the fixes, I understand they were fairly extensive. =20 Kris --FCuugMFkClbJLl1L Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6gxUzWry0BWjoQKURAj7TAKDnBovlwLi3mKpddKL0yOo8njvy5QCfZuaG vDUukTA0XYN/imIesEHtTc8= =8AHd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FCuugMFkClbJLl1L-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 14: 7:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gfw.mojave.com (gfw.mojave.com [24.234.44.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 573C137B6BB for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 23971 invoked by uid 1001); 8 Feb 2001 22:07:32 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO mojave.com) (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 22:07:32 -0000 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Cyclades Z under FreeBSD 4.2 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:07:32 -0800 From: Greg Wohletz Message-Id: <20010208220734.573C137B6BB@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What is the status of the Cyclades Z driver under 4.2. The cyclades site only has drivers for 3.2, NetBSD has a driver for NetBSD 1.5. I can't find any reference to a driver for freebsd 4.2. If you know of any please tell me. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 14:16:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 842E937B6AE for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:15:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f18MFht26246; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:15:43 -0800 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:15:43 -0800 From: Brooks Davis To: Greg Wohletz Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cyclades Z under FreeBSD 4.2 Message-ID: <20010208141543.A14273@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <20010208220734.573C137B6BB@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20010208220734.573C137B6BB@hub.freebsd.org>; from greg@mojave.com on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 02:07:32PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 02:07:32PM -0800, Greg Wohletz wrote: > What is the status of the Cyclades Z driver under 4.2. The cyclades site > only has drivers for 3.2, NetBSD has a driver for NetBSD 1.5. I can't > find any reference to a driver for freebsd 4.2. If you know of any > please tell me. You can get one for 4.2 at: ftp://ftp.beta.com/pub/cyclades/cz210.tgz -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 14:30:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtwo.siconline.net (mailtwo.siconline.net [195.49.7.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4C437B97A; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:30:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailfive.siconline.net (mailfive.siconline.net [195.49.7.46]) by mailtwo.siconline.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f18MA9b06413; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:10:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from MSAUDER@siconline.ch) Received: from dom_one-Message_Server by mailfive.siconline.net with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:10:06 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:09:35 +0100 From: "Marcel Sauder" To: "<" , "<" Subject: unsubscribe Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 14:31:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-11.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 642D137B980; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [212.238.77.116] (helo=gateway.raggedclown.net) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.14 #4) id 14QzLX-00085B-00; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 22:15:26 +0000 Received: from buffy.raggedclown.net (buffy.raggedclown.intra [192.168.1.2]) by gateway.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Gateway) with ESMTP id 69AE23396B; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:01:34 +0100 (CET) Received: by buffy.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mailhost, from userid 500) id ECBB612D59; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:01:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:01:33 +0100 From: Cliff Sarginson To: Nick Rogness Cc: Eric Fiterman , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: multiple IP addresses in /etc/hosts Message-ID: <20010208220133.E1453@raggedclown.net> References: <3A82CC57.3D1F5AB4@torrentnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from nick@rogness.net on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 11:09:01AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 11:09:01AM -0600, Nick Rogness wrote: > On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Eric Fiterman wrote: > > > Hi: > > > > Is it possible to have an application like ping or telnet iterate > > through IP addresses for a given hostname, if a previous attempt fails? > > > > For example: > > > > in /etc/hosts: > > --------------- > > 0.0.0.1 testhost > > 0.0.0.2 testhost > > 0.0.0.3 testhost > > --------------- > > > > If I attempt to 'ping testhost', and the first entry (0.0.0.1) fails, is > > there anything to configure which would allow an automatic attempt to > > ping 0.0.0.2? Is this possible? > > AFAIK, not with /etc/hosts. You could do round-robin DNS with > named but it will never be 100% of what you want to do. DNS does > not keep track of which hosts are dead or alive. Well, as far as ping goes you could do this in a very simple way with a script that parses the hosts file and presents each IP as an argument..or am I missing something here ? Cliff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 15:25:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bdr-xcon.matchlogic.com (mail.matchlogic.com [205.216.147.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F194F37C188 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:25:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.matchlogic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:24:55 -0700 Message-ID: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B3013054E3F9F@bdr-xcln.is.matchlogic.com> From: Charles Randall To: 'Jordan Hubbard' Cc: 'Alfred Perlstein' , "Paul D. Schmidt" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: known pthread bug? Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:24:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does this update ERRATA.TXT on the FTP site too? ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/4.2-RELEASE/ERRATA.TXT -Charles -----Original Message----- From: Jordan Hubbard [mailto:jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 11:03 PM To: Charles Randall Cc: 'Alfred Perlstein'; Paul D. Schmidt; hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: known pthread bug? > Why isn't ERRATA updated to reflect this? Should there be a "Known and > acknowledged bugs" section in ERRATA? The entire ERRATA is essentially a section like you describe, it just doesn't always get updated. :-( If any of the CVS committers see an errata-worthy item go by in the repository, they're free to edit www/en/releases/${release}/errata.sgml any time by the way. It's something I've certainly always tried to do when I had the time, but I don't always have the time right now. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 15:34:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aaz.links.ru (aaz.links.ru [193.125.152.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6FF637B503; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:34:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from babolo@localhost) by aaz.links.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA13382; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 02:34:27 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <200102082334.CAA13382@aaz.links.ru> Subject: Re: mount_null and jail In-Reply-To: from "Attila Nagy" at "Feb 8, 1 08:15:42 pm" To: bra@fsn.hu (Attila Nagy) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 02:34:27 +0300 (MSK) Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Attila Nagy writes: > Hello, > > I am trying to do the following setup: > > /jail > /jail-run > > The first is a directory in a filesystem and holds the necessary files to > run the given application. The second directory is also a simple directory > but /jail mounted into it with mount_null. > > The command I use to mount the first dir into the second is: > mount_null -o ro /jail/something /jail-run/something > > The purpose of this setup is to create jails within a standard UFS > filesystem and to mount the directories read-only and run jailed > applications in it, on a read-only partition. > This wayI don't need several partitions, mounted RO and I don't have to > create loopback filesystems or to do other magic (like a mounted ISO). > > The problem. > > When I start jail I often get page faults. > Also I want to chroot() in the jail (ftp daemon) but it page faults in all > cases. > > So > outside# jail /jail-run/something something 127.0.0.1 /bin/sh > often works and the jail starts (/jail-run is a NULL filesystem), but > > inside# chroot > drops me a page fault and restarts the machine in every cases. > > I've tried out this on 4.2-RELEASE and 4.2-STABLE (05/02/2001) -RELEASE > with a GENERIC and -STABLE with a custom kernel and all of them fail to > survive jail and chroot on a NULL FS. > > Could somebody give me hints on this? I think it's a general problem and > the problem is the use of the NULL FS, but how could I avoid this kind of > crashes? Yes, you can use nullfs very restrictive. I use such a method instead: 0garkin~(5)>df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ad0s2h 7993324 440694 6913165 6% /usr ... /dev/ad0s3a 7993324 439767 6914092 6% /jail/pent/usr /usr and /jail/pent/usr is the same file system: 0garkin~(7)>fdisk ad0 ******* Working on device /dev/ad0 ******* parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=89355 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl) ... The data for partition 2 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 25041744, size 65028096 (31752 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 267/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 266/ sector 63/ head 15 The data for partition 3 is: sysid 0,(unused) start 73812816, size 16257024 (7938 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 523/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 266/ sector 63/ head 15 ad0s3 is inside ad0s2 and: 0garkin~(8)>disklabel ad0s2 ... # size offset fstype [fsize bsize bps/cpg] c: 65028096 0 unused 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 4047*) d: 16257024 0 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 1011*) e: 8128512 16257024 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 1011*- 1517*) f: 8128512 24385536 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 1517*- 2023*) g: 16257024 32514048 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 2023*- 3035*) h: 16257024 48771072 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 3035*- 4047*) ad0s3 ocupies the same place as ad0s2h. More of that: 0garkin~(9)>fdisk ad0s3 ******* Working on device /dev/ad0s3 ******* parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=16128 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl) Figures below won't work with BIOS for partitions not in cyl 1 parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: cylinders=16128 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl) Media sector size is 512 Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1 Information from DOS bootblock is: The data for partition 1 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 0, size 16257024 (7938 Meg), flag 80 (active) beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 767/ sector 63/ head 15 The data for partition 2 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 0, size 16257024 (7938 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 767/ sector 63/ head 15 The data for partition 3 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 0, size 16257024 (7938 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 767/ sector 63/ head 15 The data for partition 4 is: sysid 5,(Extended DOS) start 0, size 16257024 (7938 Meg), flag 0 beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 767/ sector 63/ head 15 0garkin~(10)>disklabel ad0s3 ... # size offset fstype [fsize bsize bps/cpg] a: 16257024 0 4.2BSD 1024 8192 63 # (Cyl. 0 - 16127) b: 16257024 0 4.2BSD 1024 8192 63 # (Cyl. 0 - 16127) c: 16257024 0 4.2BSD 1024 8192 63 # (Cyl. 0 - 16127) d: 16257024 0 4.2BSD 1024 8192 63 # (Cyl. 0 - 16127) e: 16257024 0 4.2BSD 1024 8192 63 # (Cyl. 0 - 16127) f: 16257024 0 4.2BSD 1024 8192 63 # (Cyl. 0 - 16127) g: 16257024 0 4.2BSD 1024 8192 63 # (Cyl. 0 - 16127) h: 16257024 0 4.2BSD 1024 8192 63 # (Cyl. 0 - 16127) so your can use any of ad0s3[a-h] for read only mount in different jails safely. More of that - you can play with partition type of ad0s3 - just set it 5 (extended DOS) - and ad0s5..ad0s30 all have the same file systems a thru h for read only mount into jails. But this is not so safely becouse of recursion thru Extended DOS partitions and not every FreeBSD version can work in such a way. And, of cause, nfs is possible (almoust) too. But if use nfs self mounted partitions order of start nfs client and nfs server in /etc/rc must be reversed. -- @BABOLO http://links.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 15:56: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quack.kfu.com (quack.kfu.com [205.178.90.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D24937B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:55:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from medusa.kfu.com (medusa.kfu.com [205.178.90.222]) by quack.kfu.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f18Ntfv79936 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:55:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nsayer@medusa.kfu.com) Received: (from nsayer@localhost) by medusa.kfu.com (8.11.1/8.11.0) id f18NtfF89134 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:55:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nsayer) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:55:41 -0800 (PST) From: Nick Sayer Message-Id: <200102082355.f18NtfF89134@medusa.kfu.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Would it generally be viewed as helpful to add the option of reporting the md5 for the files listed in /var/log/setuid.*? It would make the lines in that file very long, but in many cases they already break the 80 character boundary anyhow. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 17: 8:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DCCB137B698 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:08:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 65070 invoked by uid 1001); 9 Feb 2001 11:08:13 +1000 X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.12 07-Feb-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/ X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/img/gjb-auug048.gif X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-pgpkey.asc Message-Id: Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 11:08:13 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Nick Sayer Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? References: <200102082355.f18NtfF89134@medusa.kfu.com> In-reply-to: <200102082355.f18NtfF89134@medusa.kfu.com> of Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:55:41 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nick Sayer wrote: > Would it generally be viewed as helpful to add the option of reporting > the md5 for the files listed in /var/log/setuid.*? I don't see the benefit in this if either the md5 binary or the comparison file are on writable storage (which is almost always going to be true). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 17:20:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B4337B69E for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from xor.obsecurity.org ([63.207.60.15]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G8G00JGDSZQ6G@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:50:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by xor.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9062266B62; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:52:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:52:58 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? In-reply-to: <200102082355.f18NtfF89134@medusa.kfu.com>; from nsayer@quack.kfu.com on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 03:55:41PM -0800 To: Nick Sayer Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010208165258.A50718@mollari.cthul.hu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF" Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <200102082355.f18NtfF89134@medusa.kfu.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 03:55:41PM -0800, Nick Sayer wrote: > Would it generally be viewed as helpful to add the option of reporting > the md5 for the files listed in /var/log/setuid.*? To what end? We already know the files changed - adding their MD5 doesn't seem to provide the administrator with any additional information. Kris --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6gz9qWry0BWjoQKURAothAKCguqhpC//zkalcdUQ8Vj0sTWbfGwCeLIrR E1+pkmcKTMuZNjVcC4aA4vE= =iDdx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 18:13:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1385E37B6A0; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:13:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA69320; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:13:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:13:33 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: Bill Paul Cc: , Subject: Re: call for testers: port aggregation netgraph module In-Reply-To: <20010208212509.E8D7D37B6AA@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Bill Paul wrote: > http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/FEC/4.x/fec.tar.gz > http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/FEC/5.x/fec.tar.gz > > This is a call for testers for a netgraph module that can be used > to aggregate 2 or 4 ethernet interfaces into a single interface. > Basically, it lets you do things like the following: [snip] > The fec module will work with *any* combination of interfaces, not > just multiport ethernet cards, however the port failover mechanism > will not work unless the interface supports ifmedia and is able to > report the link status. Cards that use the fxp, de, xl, tl, rl, > sis, dc, wb, ste, sf, vr, ti and sk drivers should work. Yes, that > means you can aggregate RealTek cards and gigabit ethernet cards > together. Awesome! I've been using channel bonding/port-failover on my NT servers for at least a couple of years now. One thing, though, wouldn't the plural of 'fec' be 'feces'? :-) > The channel bonding is done using the Cisco fast etherchannel > mechanism. The default hashing mechanism uses the MAC address, > however you can select IP address hashing as well. IPv4 and IPv6 > address *should* work, though I must admit I've been using IPv4 > until now. If someone actually has a Cisco switch that implements > fast ethetchannel, I'd be interested to know if it works with this > module. At the moment, my test environment consist of two machines > with multiport ethernet cards wired up using four crossover > cables. Apparently there is another way to do channel bonding with switches that don't support Cisco's EtherChannel, since I'm doing it with 3COM's (piece of *hit) SuperStackII switches and I don't have EtherChannel support enabled in Compaq's NT drivers for their Intel NICs. I will try this out on -stable at work, but the only switches I have handy that support EtherChannel are some HP ProCurve 4000Ms. Is there any chance that the EtherChannel method would work on something like a 3COM SuperStackII 3300, which doesn't claim to support EtherChannel? > Each link is checked once every second to see if the link is still > up. An attempt to send a packet over a dead link will cause the > packet to be shifted over to the next link in the bundle. Apparently Compaq's NT driver (actually most likely Intel's, slightly modified by Compaq) sends out a heartbeat packet from each interface if there has been no incoming traffic on the interfaces within the heartbeat period. I haven't sniffed the heartbeat packet yet to figure out if it is simply sent to a broadcast address (which it appears to be, since the switch appears to forward it to all ports), or if it is sending it from one interface addressed to another interface, or even to the same interface. [snip] > The fec0 pseudo-interface will inherit the MAC address of the first > real interface to be added to the bundle, and that same MAC address > will be propagated to all subsequent interfaces that are added. [snip] Hmmm... The non-EtherChannel method apparently uses a different MAC for each interface, since when I have looked at the forwarding tables of my switches where I have two bonded channels from a server, each port shows a different MAC address. Any idea how that would work? It would be really cool if you could choose either the EtherChannel method or some other non-EtherChannel method that will work with other switches, if we can figure out how it works. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 18:34:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A87CF37B4EC; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:34:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f192XTi18762; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:33:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:33:29 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102090233.f192XTi18762@earth.backplane.com> To: Archie Cobbs Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, phk@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new /etc/malloc.conf option References: <200102082038.MAA56927@curve.dellroad.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Here's an idea for a new /etc/malloc.conf option to help with :debugging... I'm interested in what other people think. : :The option would have the effect of setting a "failure probability" :P between 0.0 and 1.0 such that any malloc()/realloc() operation would :fail with probability P. :... : :By using random(), the exact failure can be reproduced by the application : :-Archie :__________________________________________________________________________ :Archie Cobbs * Packet Design * http://www.packetdesign.com A system-wide global? Ouch. How about not. I can't imagine using this on random software. I can see it for big projects, but in that case why not simply write a wrapper for malloc() for that project? I usually wrap malloc() with a function called zalloc() (which also zero's the returned memory), and free() with a function called zfree() which takes an extra size argument. The debug version of these functions track and verify all allocations and frees based on the source file, line, and function they were called from (cpp magic) and dumps a histogram every 10K allocations or so (which makes finding memory leaks trivial). The default version also core dumps the programs if the underlying malloc() fails. I have safe_*() versions of all the string/malloc functions as well (e.g. safe_asprintf(), safe_strdup()) which also core the program if the underlying malloc fails. I've found that code becomes utterly unreadable if every single call that might malloc something has to be checked for failure. It's easier to design the program such that a malloc failure should never occur (for example, by limiting the number of simultanious connections a threaded program is allowed to handle), and then core dump if one actually does occur. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 20:34:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A80937B65D; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:34:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18587; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:33:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.1/8.9.1) id f194X1u42681; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:33:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14979.29437.518299.842853@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:33:01 -0500 (EST) To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Julian Elischer , Josef Karthauser , Robert Watson , Brian Somers , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O In-Reply-To: References: <20010208113519.A789@tao.org.uk> <3A828C2C.F7CDA809@elischer.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > Julian Elischer writes: > > I believe that vmware mmaps a region of memory and then somehow syncs > > it to disk. (It is certainly doing something like it here). > > Theory: VMWare mmaps a region of memory corresponding to the virtual > machine's "physical" RAM, then touches every page during startup. > Unless some form of clustering is done, this causes 16384 write > operations for a 64 MB virtual machine... > Pretty much. But the issue is that this should never hit the disk unless we're under memory pressure because it is mapped MAP_NOSYNC (actually the file is unlinked prior to the mmap() and a heuristic in vm_mmap() detects this and sets MAP_NOSYNC). The real problem is that our MAP_NOSYNC doesn't fully work in at least one major case. As I understand it, the technique we use is to set the MAP_ENTRY_NOSYNC in the map entry at mmap time. On a write fault, PG_NOSYNC is set in the page's flags. A lazy msync will skip PG_NOSYNC pages. The problem comes when a page is read from prior to being written to. The page gets mapped in read/write and we don't take a write fault, so the PG_NOSYNC flag never gets set. (This accounts for the flurry of disk i/o shortly after vmware starts). When the pages get sunk to disk, the vnode is locked and the application will freeze in a "vmpfw" The following patch sets PG_NOSYNC on faults other than write faults. This seems to work for my test program, and for vmware (I've only very briefly tested it). Assuming that it is correct, the code around it should be reorganized somewhat. This is against -stable, as I don't have any -current i386s.. Index: vm_fault.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_fault.c,v retrieving revision 1.108.2.2 diff -u -r1.108.2.2 vm_fault.c --- vm_fault.c 2000/08/04 22:31:11 1.108.2.2 +++ vm_fault.c 2001/02/08 23:04:02 @@ -804,6 +804,10 @@ } vm_page_dirty(fs.m); vm_pager_page_unswapped(fs.m); + } else { + if ((fs.entry->eflags & MAP_ENTRY_NOSYNC) && + (fs.m->dirty == 0)) + vm_page_flag_set(fs.m, PG_NOSYNC); } } Cheers, Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin Duke University Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu Department of Computer Science Phone: (919) 660-6590 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 21: 8:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (unknown [65.24.0.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85FBB37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 21:07:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from columbus.rr.com (dhcp065-024-106-170.columbus.rr.com [65.24.106.170]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1955RN14144 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:05:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 00:03:06 -0500 From: Kenny Drobnack Reply-To: supenguin@bigfoot.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.18 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: mount checking for read-only media Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's this little problem with FreeBSD that has been bugging me a bit for a while now. There have been a couple times I've tried to mount Zip disks or floppy drives in FreeBSD, and had the /etc/fstab set up to mount read/write, and didn't realize that I had write protect turned on. However, I didn't realize the write protect was turned on until I tried writing to the drive. This caused lots of hard write errors or some such thing, and the system eventual just said "hit any key to reboot". I guess some buffer somewhere got full and crashed the kernel. There's never any kernel dump, so I can't easily send debug messages. Is there some reason that no check is done to make sure the media is writable before writing to it? Is some system call to check the hardware to see if its physically writable? I figure there is. I want to start hacking at the kernel a bit, and it seems like something simple (comparitively) would be a good place to start. Up there on my wish list is getting a journaling filesystem ported to FreeBSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 21:58:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E8637B491 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 21:58:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f195wEW01613; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:58:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200102090558.f195wEW01613@harmony.village.org> To: supenguin@bigfoot.com Subject: Re: mount checking for read-only media Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 00:03:06 EST." <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> References: <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 22:58:14 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> Kenny Drobnack writes: : Is some system call to check the hardware to see if its physically : writable? I figure there is. I want to start hacking at the kernel a : bit, and it seems like something simple (comparitively) would be a good : place to start. Up there on my wish list is getting a journaling : filesystem ported to FreeBSD. This is a driver bug. The da driver, which deals with disks, doesn't check to see if the media is writable or not before allowing r/w mounts. You could short circuit the panic by fixing this. Fixing the panic might be harder... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 22: 2:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC5737B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:02:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f1962cM19819; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:02:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:02:38 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102090602.f1962cM19819@earth.backplane.com> To: Andre Oppermann , Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <200102062018.f16KIdx66146@earth.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, after a long conversation with Mr Bernstein and Kirk it turns out that all my blathering about a normal FFS mount being easily corruptable due to a crash occuring during heavy disk I/O (e.g. from qmail) is so much smoke. The fsync()/rename() combination that QMail does should be sufficient to guarentee (baring a bug in kernel) that a crash will not result in any lost mail queue files when using a normal FFS mount (without softupdates). However, I still recommend using softupdates. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 22:14:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.utep.edu (mail.cs.utep.edu [129.108.5.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B969137B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:13:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from gecko (gecko [129.108.5.51]) by cs.utep.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f196Dfl01791 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:13:41 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:13:42 -0700 (MST) From: X-Sender: To: Subject: FFS Driver for win2000? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anybody know of any attempt to write a Fast Filesystem driver for windows 2000?. I have a machine that dual boots, and I can see the NTFS under FreeBSD no problem, but I would like to see my freebsd volume under windows, too. Is this a good project for me to do, or has someone done this already? JAn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 23: 7:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D34DD37B4EC for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:06:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from xor.obsecurity.org ([63.207.60.15]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G8H007AI9ELSE@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by xor.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0E58F66B62; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 22:47:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 22:47:27 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: FFS Driver for win2000? In-reply-to: ; from janb@cs.utep.edu on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 11:13:42PM -0700 To: janb@cs.utep.edu Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <20010208224727.A54586@mollari.cthul.hu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KsGdsel6WgEHnImy" Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 11:13:42PM -0700, janb@cs.utep.edu wrote: > Does anybody know of any attempt to write a Fast Filesystem driver for > windows 2000?. I have a machine that dual boots, and I can see the NTFS > under FreeBSD no problem, but I would like to see my freebsd volume under > windows, too. >=20 > Is this a good project for me to do, or has someone done this already? :-) It would be pretty useful, but obviously you'd have to know an awful lot about the internals of Windows 2000. Kris --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6g5J/Wry0BWjoQKURAtFdAJoD2xb8If9eaDlqxkvTffsrdSzUVwCg471F xsJMC/FzpPeNp3TSb47ZuGI= =JEdS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 23:15:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from xena.gsicomp.on.ca (cr677933-a.ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com [24.43.230.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C550F37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:15:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes (hermes.gsicomp.on.ca [192.168.0.18]) by xena.gsicomp.on.ca (8.11.1/8.9.3) with SMTP id f197Dii47086; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 02:13:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from matt@gsicomp.on.ca) Message-ID: <004301c09267$ae13bdb0$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> From: "Matthew Emmerton" To: Cc: References: <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> <200102090558.f195wEW01613@harmony.village.org> Subject: Re: mount checking for read-only media Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 02:12:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In message <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> Kenny Drobnack writes: > : Up there on my wish list is getting a journaling > : filesystem ported to FreeBSD. You may wish to check out IBM's JFS port for Linux (http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/jfs/) It's released under the GPL. The nice thing about it is that there's 25 point-in-time releases, each enabling a new feature, which makes for easy testing. -- Matt Emmerton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 8 23:21:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winnie.fit.edu (winnie.fit.edu [163.118.5.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CAFD37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from netzero.net (rm305w-b.campbell.fit.edu [163.118.216.112]) by winnie.fit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA25141 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 02:22:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A839AC4.FEFA7306@netzero.net> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 02:22:44 -0500 From: Kevin Brunelle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mount checking for read-only media References: <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> <200102090558.f195wEW01613@harmony.village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, > This is a driver bug. The da driver, which deals with disks, doesn't > check to see if the media is writable or not before allowing r/w > mounts. You could short circuit the panic by fixing this. I know this is going to sound corny, but if this gets fixed I am going to miss it. #ifdef SAGA After I had been using FreeBSD for a while I realized I had never seen a kernel panic. So I specifically went and tried to cause one. It took several days of looking through the code and I still found nothing. I needed to go to school, but I knew I had a class where I could look at some code if I brought it with me. I grabbed a disk, mounted it, and started copying files to it. There was no problem for a while, but then it tried to start writing the data; instant kernel panic. The disk was write protected and I had accidentally found what I was looking for. I did figure out where it must be, but I never looked for it; I never really wanted to find it. I figured if I found it, I would want to fix it. I assumed the occurrence must be rare, and if it wasn't, a better programmer than myself would offer a fix to it. Instead I used it to show my friends what a kernel panic looked like, and explain to them exactly the lengths it took to get my system to mess up. This was amazing to them, as they were Windows users and to them a crash was a daily occurrence. I also used it to show how even programs that had been in use for a long time, could still have bugs in them. As the months flew by, as they seem to do with FreeBSD. I showed people less and less, and I guess I really forgot about it. [I think I first found it in 3.4-RELEASE] I guess I assumed it was fixed, although I never checked. Now, I know it is still there, and I will miss it when it is gone. This is one of my favorite bugs. If it does get fixed, I might just keep a copy of the old source around -- for the memories. #endif [HHOS] Yes, I know I have problems. ;-) Kevin Brunelle -- "Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle and quick to anger." HHOS=Ha ha only serious. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 1:14: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.sanda.gr.jp (ns.sanda.gr.jp [210.232.122.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BB3837B69D for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 01:13:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ever.sanda.gr.jp (epoch [10.93.63.51]) by ns.sanda.gr.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id SAA71443; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:13:43 +0900 (JST) From: non@ever.sanda.gr.jp Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ever.sanda.gr.jp (8.8.8/3.3W9) with ESMTP id SAA26344; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:13:42 +0900 (JST) To: supenguin@bigfoot.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount checking for read-only media In-Reply-To: <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> References: <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94 on Emacs 19.28 / Mule 2.3 =?iso-2022-jp?B?KBskQkt2RSYyVhsoQik=?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010209181342S.non@ever.sanda.gr.jp> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 18:13:42 +0900 X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 16 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Kenny Drobnack Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 00:03:06 -0500 > Is some system call to check the hardware to see if its physically > writable? I figure there is. I want to start hacking at the kernel a > bit, and it seems like something simple (comparitively) would be a good > place to start. Up there on my wish list is getting a journaling > filesystem ported to FreeBSD. It's not system call but `od' driver does check if the medium is writable or not. It returns EACCESS when the mount option is -rw and the medium is read-only. `od' is drived from `da' so quick hack will do the trick. ftp://daemon.jp.FreeBSD.org/pub/FreeBSD-jp/OD/ // Noriaki Mitsunaga // To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 2:14:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.huji.ac.il (cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.16.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8163D37B69B; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 02:13:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from sexta.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.16.13] ident=danny) by cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 14RAYf-0004Tu-00; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 12:13:41 +0200 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-0.24 To: Paul Saab Cc: John Baldwin , Terry Lambert , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Really odd "BTX halted" problem booting - PXE/diskless In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 7 Feb 2001 03:16:37 -0800 . Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 12:13:40 +0200 From: Danny Braniss Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010207031637.A32676@elvis.mu.org>you write: }It its the bios disk probe that is causing the machine to fault. I can now confirm that it's a divide by zero in the Adaptec BIOS GRRRRRR. (in biosdisk, when 'probing' the adaptec) and it happens on a AIC 7899, but works ok on some other ADAPTECs. the problem is nasty because it's not easy to zero out the first block of the disk if you can't get the os working :-) }I suppose you really dont need to probe the disks when you are netbooting. i got the pxeboot not to check the disks but then the kernel stepped on it :-( is there a way to prevent BTX to halt if the 'caller' expects a div/zero? (in the days of the PDP/11 i could trap such things, print a message, and continue). danny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 2:29: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from urban.iinet.net.au (urban.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 443CA37B401; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 02:28:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from muzak.iinet.net.au (muzak.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.237]) by urban.iinet.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01950; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:28:39 +0800 Received: from elischer.org (reggae-13-227.nv.iinet.net.au [203.59.79.227]) by muzak.iinet.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07291; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:26:06 +0800 Message-ID: <3A83C653.2B68DACE@elischer.org> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 02:28:35 -0800 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Paul Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: call for testers: port aggregation netgraph module References: <20010208212509.E8D7D37B6AA@hub.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Welcome to netgraph.. I hope it was not an unpleasant experience.. Suggestions and complaints are definitly eccepted with pleasure. E.g. Was the differnce between 4.x and 5.x too much of a pain.? (it was needed for SMP) I will be making a backport of SOME of the added functionality of 5.x to 4.x which will mean a minor change to the prototypes for the rcvmsg method, but if you don't use the new features the only effect will the added argument. so far there are very few 3rd party netgraph authors. so this should be ok.. I will look at your modules with an eye for "traps for young players" Thankyou for your confidence in Netgraph! Bill Paul wrote: > > http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/FEC/4.x/fec.tar.gz > http://www.freebsd.org/~wpaul/FEC/5.x/fec.tar.gz > > This is a call for testers for a netgraph module that can be used to > aggregate 2 or 4 ethernet interfaces into a single interface. Basically, > it lets you do things like the following: > > # kldload ./ng_fec.ko > # ngctl mkpeer fec dummy fec > # ngctl msg fec0: add_iface '"dc0"' > # ngctl msg fec0: add_iface '"dc1"' > # ngctl msg fec0: add_iface '"dc2"' > # ngctl msg fec0: add_iface '"dc3"' > # ngctl msg fec0: set_mode_inet > > The fec module will work with *any* combination of interfaces, not > just multiport ethernet cards, however the port failover mechanism > will not work unless the interface supports ifmedia and is able to > report the link status. Cards that use the fxp, de, xl, tl, rl, sis, > dc, wb, ste, sf, vr, ti and sk drivers should work. Yes, that means > you can aggregate RealTek cards and gigabit ethernet cards together. > > The channel bonding is done using the Cisco fast etherchannel mechanism. > The default hashing mechanism uses the MAC address, however you can > select IP address hashing as well. IPv4 and IPv6 address *should* work, > though I must admit I've been using IPv4 until now. If someone actually > has a Cisco switch that implements fast ethetchannel, I'd be interested > to know if it works with this module. At the moment, my test environment > consist of two machines with multiport ethernet cards wired up using > four crossover cables. > > Each link is checked once every second to see if the link is still up. > An attempt to send a packet over a dead link will cause the packet to > be shifted over to the next link in the bundle. > > There are tarballs for 4.x and 5.x systems. The 4.x tarball should > work on 4.2-RELEASE or later. The 5.x one will work on -current. Both > source and pre-compiled modules for x86 are provided. This code should > work on the alpha as well. > > You can create more than one bundle by using more than one mkpeer > command with ngctl(8). You can delete interfaces from a bundle using > the del_iface command, which works just like the add_iface command. > The fec0 pseudo-interface will inherit the MAC address of the first > real interface to be added to the bundle, and that same MAC address > will be propagated to all subsequent interfaces that are added. The > MAC addresses are restored when an interface is removed from a bundle. > Once the bundle is created, you can manipulate the fec0 interface > as though it were a real ethernet interface. You must have either 2 > or 4 NICs in the bundle. > > Share, enjoy, test, and report back to me any problems you encounter. > > -Bill > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 ---> X_.---._/ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 5:23: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from point.osg.gov.bc.ca (point.osg.gov.bc.ca [142.32.102.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33FB037B69D; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 05:22:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by point.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.8.7/8.8.8) id FAA04489; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 05:21:58 -0800 Received: from passer.osg.gov.bc.ca(142.32.110.29) via SMTP by point.osg.gov.bc.ca, id smtpda04487; Fri Feb 9 05:21:52 2001 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.11.2/8.9.1) id f19DLks59817; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 05:21:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from cwsys9.cwsent.com(10.2.2.1), claiming to be "cwsys.cwsent.com" via SMTP by passer9.cwsent.com, id smtpds59814; Fri Feb 9 05:21:03 2001 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by cwsys.cwsent.com (8.11.2/8.9.1) id f19DL3B84023; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 05:21:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200102091321.f19DL3B84023@cwsys.cwsent.com> Received: from localhost.cwsent.com(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "cwsys" via SMTP by localhost.cwsent.com, id smtpdB84010; Fri Feb 9 05:20:15 2001 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 Reply-To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group X-Sender: schubert To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Attila Nagy , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mount_null and jail In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:52:51 PST." <20010208135251.A48378@mollari.cthul.hu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 05:20:15 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010208135251.A48378@mollari.cthul.hu>, Kris Kennaway writes: > On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 08:15:42PM +0100, Attila Nagy wrote: > > > When I start jail I often get page faults. > > Also I want to chroot() in the jail (ftp daemon) but it page faults in all > > cases. > > nullfs is broken in all versions prior to 5.0-CURRENT. This is even > documented in the manpage. I don't know if there are any plans to > backport the fixes, I understand they were fairly extensive. Mount_union does work much better than mount_null on -STABLE systems. I've set up jails where I've had a read-only filesystem union mounted under a read/write filesystem allowing me to use the same base O/S files, except for sensitive files and directories, keeping the changed bits in the filesystem above the "base". Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 Team Leader, Sun/Alpha Team Internet: Cy.Schubert@osg.gov.bc.ca Open Systems Group, ITSD, ISTA Province of BC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 7:26:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winnie.fit.edu (fit.edu [163.118.5.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 234D937B72A for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 07:12:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from netzero.net (rm305w-b.campbell.fit.edu [163.118.216.112]) by winnie.fit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA03744 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:13:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A84092A.7552DA11@netzero.net> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:13:46 -0500 From: Kevin Brunelle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mount checking for read-only media References: <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> <200102090558.f195wEW01613@harmony.village.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am sorry if this hits the list twice. But, I think my school's mailserver has been silently dropping mail for some time now. -KB Well, > This is a driver bug. The da driver, which deals with disks, doesn't > check to see if the media is writable or not before allowing r/w > mounts. You could short circuit the panic by fixing this. I know this is going to sound corny, but if this gets fixed I am going to miss it. #ifdef SAGA After I had been using FreeBSD for a while I realized I had never seen a kernel panic. So I specifically went and tried to cause one. It took several days of looking through the code and I still found nothing. I needed to go to school, but I knew I had a class where I could look at some code if I brought it with me. I grabbed a disk, mounted it, and started copying files to it. There was no problem for a while, but then it tried to start writing the data; instant kernel panic. The disk was write protected and I had accidentally found what I was looking for. I did figure out where it must be, but I never looked for it; I never really wanted to find it. I figured if I found it, I would want to fix it. I assumed the occurrence must be rare, and if it wasn't, a better programmer than myself would offer a fix to it. Instead I used it to show my friends what a kernel panic looked like, and explain to them exactly the lengths it took to get my system to mess up. This was amazing to them, as they were Windows users and to them a crash was a daily occurrence. I also used it to show how even programs that had been in use for a long time, could still have bugs in them. As the months flew by, as they seem to do with FreeBSD. I showed people less and less, and I guess I really forgot about it. [I think I first found it in 3.4-RELEASE] I guess I assumed it was fixed, although I never checked. Now, I know it is still there, and I will miss it when it is gone. This is one of my favorite bugs. If it does get fixed, I might just keep a copy of the old source around -- for the memories. #endif [HHOS] Yes, I know I have problems. ;-) Kevin Brunelle -- "Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle and quick to anger." HHOS=Ha ha only serious. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 7:28:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE7C37B823; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 07:15:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26411; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:14:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.1/8.9.1) id f19FELc01925; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:14:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14980.2381.849005.313177@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:14:21 -0500 (EST) To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Julian Elischer , Josef Karthauser , Robert Watson , Brian Somers , Bruce Evans , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O In-Reply-To: <14979.29437.518299.842853@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> References: <20010208113519.A789@tao.org.uk> <3A828C2C.F7CDA809@elischer.org> <14979.29437.518299.842853@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Gallatin writes: > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > Julian Elischer writes: > > > I believe that vmware mmaps a region of memory and then somehow syncs > > > it to disk. (It is certainly doing something like it here). > > > > Theory: VMWare mmaps a region of memory corresponding to the virtual > > machine's "physical" RAM, then touches every page during startup. > > Unless some form of clustering is done, this causes 16384 write > > operations for a 64 MB virtual machine... > > > > Pretty much. But the issue is that this should never hit the disk > unless we're under memory pressure because it is mapped MAP_NOSYNC > (actually the file is unlinked prior to the mmap() and a heuristic in > vm_mmap() detects this and sets MAP_NOSYNC). I take it back. At least with the latest version of vmware, it is apparently not mapped MAP_NOSYNC. I think they've moved from mmap'ing a file in $TMPDIR to just using the CONFIG.std save/resume file. Perhaps this is only if you have resumed from a suspended state... I haven't checked that out yet. At any rate, hacking linux_mmap to ad MAP_NOSYNC to mmaped files, in combination with yesterdays patch, appears to improve perf. considerably. Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin Duke University Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu Department of Computer Science Phone: (919) 660-6590 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 8:31:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winnie.fit.edu (fit.edu [163.118.5.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99DA537B980 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 08:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from netzero.net (rm305w-b.campbell.fit.edu [163.118.216.112]) by winnie.fit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA11539 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:09:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A841662.B061A317@netzero.net> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 11:10:10 -0500 From: Kevin Brunelle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount checking for read-only media References: <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> <20010209181342S.non@ever.sanda.gr.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It's not system call but `od' driver does check if the medium is > writable or not. It returns EACCESS when the mount option is -rw and > the medium is read-only. `od' is drived from `da' so quick hack will > do the trick. This is all for scsi drives. I may not know everything, but I know most floppies aren't scsi! But, I am sure the problem exists for both. I know from experience that is exists or did exist for ata drives. I think he would be more likely to find the code for his problem in the 'ad' driver files. I could be wrong about this... but I know I had this happen to me on a computer without scsi equipment before. Of course, if he has a scsi zip drive as well, then both need to get fixed. ;-) Kevin Brunelle -- "Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle and quick to anger." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 8:32:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from syncopation-03.iinet.net.au (syncopation-03.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5099937BC00 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 08:15:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 10745 invoked by uid 666); 9 Feb 2001 16:23:12 -0000 Received: from reggae-03-225.nv.iinet.net.au (HELO elischer.org) (203.59.78.225) by mail.m.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 16:23:12 -0000 Message-ID: <3A8417B3.126F47AB@elischer.org> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 08:15:47 -0800 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Josef Karthauser , Robert Watson , Brian Somers , Bruce Evans , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's changed recently with vmware/linuxemu/file I/O References: <20010208113519.A789@tao.org.uk> <3A828C2C.F7CDA809@elischer.org> <14979.29437.518299.842853@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <14980.2381.849005.313177@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > Andrew Gallatin writes: > > > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > > > Julian Elischer writes: > > > > I believe that vmware mmaps a region of memory and then somehow syncs > > > > it to disk. (It is certainly doing something like it here). > > > > > > Theory: VMWare mmaps a region of memory corresponding to the virtual > > > machine's "physical" RAM, then touches every page during startup. > > > Unless some form of clustering is done, this causes 16384 write > > > operations for a 64 MB virtual machine... > > > > > > > Pretty much. But the issue is that this should never hit the disk > > unless we're under memory pressure because it is mapped MAP_NOSYNC > > (actually the file is unlinked prior to the mmap() and a heuristic in > > vm_mmap() detects this and sets MAP_NOSYNC). > > I take it back. At least with the latest version of vmware, it is > apparently not mapped MAP_NOSYNC. I think they've moved from > mmap'ing a file in $TMPDIR to just using the CONFIG.std save/resume > file. Perhaps this is only if you have resumed from a suspended > state... I haven't checked that out yet. > > At any rate, hacking linux_mmap to ad MAP_NOSYNC to mmaped files, in > combination with yesterdays patch, appears to improve > perf. considerably. I don't like the sound of that hack.. are they doing something in Linux to tell Linux to not sync it? I nkow it's gross but could we only do that hack if it'a vmware? (probably should be on -emulation) > > Drew > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin > Duke University Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu > Department of Computer Science Phone: (919) 660-6590 -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 ---> X_.---._/ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 9:12:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.butya.kz (butya-gw.butya.kz [212.154.129.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 133B837B9B9; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 08:22:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by relay.butya.kz (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E9B652863E; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:21:56 +0600 (ALMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.butya.kz (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA656285D3; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:21:56 +0600 (ALMT) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:21:56 +0600 (ALMT) From: Boris Popov To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: smbfs-1.3.3 released In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Boris Popov wrote: > Well, next version of smbfs for FreeBSD released today. It > includes minor bug fixes and significantly reworked connection engine. As usually, major rewrites tends to introduce some bugs. So, I've released 1.3.5 as update: 09.02.2001 1.3.5 - The user and server names was swapped in the "TreeConnect" request (fixed by Jonathan Hanna). - smb requester could cause a panic if there is no free mbufs - fixed. - It is possible to use smbfs with devfs now, but it wasn't tested under SMP. Also note that device permissions will be wrong, because devfs do not allow passing of credentials to the cloning function. - nsmbX device moved from the /dev/net directory to /dev directory. 31.01.2001 1.3.4 - Maintance: synch with changes in the recent -current An updated version can be downloaded from ftp://ftp.butya.kz/pub/smbfs/smbfs.tar.gz -- Boris Popov http://www.butya.kz/~bp/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 9:59:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.errno.com (node-d1d4bd7a.powerinter.net [209.212.189.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6744F37B768 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:59:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from melange (melange.errno.com [209.212.166.36]) by gw.errno.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA10916; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:58:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <12b501c092c1$f6d5bd00$24a6d4d1@melange> From: "Sam Leffler" To: , References: Subject: Re: FFS Driver for win2000? Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:58:52 -0800 Organization: Errno Consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You can do this from user level with pretty good results. I remember a paper that appeared in either a Usenix NT workshop or a MSJ that talked about doing it. Building a filesystem driver in the kernel requires getting the FSDK which, last I checked, was licensed. Sam ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:13 PM Subject: FFS Driver for win2000? > Does anybody know of any attempt to write a Fast Filesystem driver for > windows 2000?. I have a machine that dual boots, and I can see the NTFS > under FreeBSD no problem, but I would like to see my freebsd volume under > windows, too. > > Is this a good project for me to do, or has someone done this already? > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 10:45:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1B7837B65D; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:44:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RIgg-0000Kd-00; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 11:54:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3A843CE5.FCA2EE6@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 11:54:29 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson Cc: Kevin Brunelle , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel editing tools. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson wrote: > > On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Kevin Brunelle wrote: > > > Sorry if you have heard this before, or if it is annoying. I just can't > > seem to find any information on this. > > > > I have been poking around my kernel for quite some time now, and I have > > been doing it with various text editors and programs of that nature. It > > suddenly occured to me that there might be a better way to go about > > this. So I ask you, are there any programs that make reading and editing > > the kernel sources any easier? I was thinking about possibly writing a > > utility to do something like this, if one cannot be found. I don't > > pretend to be super skilled; I just want some honest advice. Surely you > > aren't all hacking away on vi or the *other* editor. > > > > Well, thanks in advance for any help you can offer. > > Heh. Mostly I use vi and more, along with liberal use of grep and > occasionally (fear) sed. In the past, I've used glimpse for faster > searching of the source tree. And cvs commands such as log, diff, > annotate, and commit (!) are invaluable. When browsing less familiar > source trees, such as the Linux kernel source, I like using web-based > source cross-referencing. As Mike Smith points out, an excessive number > of open xterm windows makes life a lot easier--the larger the screen, the > more productive I am. Right now I have about 15 source files open in > various vi sessions, and I'm coveting the Apple 22" display... Snort. Emacs and etags. C-X-2 and C-X-3 are your friends. We've also implemented a nightly LXR index at work for web browsing of the source. I've only played with it a little bit, but the indexed searches are sure fast. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 11: 6:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.utep.edu (mail.cs.utep.edu [129.108.5.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAB0B37B6AB for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from gecko (gecko [129.108.5.51]) by cs.utep.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f19J5QK06727; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:05:26 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:05:26 -0700 (MST) From: X-Sender: To: Sam Leffler Cc: Subject: Re: FFS Driver for win2000? In-Reply-To: <12b501c092c1$f6d5bd00$24a6d4d1@melange> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doyou have anymore information, but any chance? Tahnk you , JAn On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Sam Leffler wrote: > You can do this from user level with pretty good results. I remember a > paper that appeared in either a Usenix NT workshop or a MSJ that talked > about doing it. Building a filesystem driver in the kernel requires getting > the FSDK which, last I checked, was licensed. > > Sam > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:13 PM > Subject: FFS Driver for win2000? > > > > Does anybody know of any attempt to write a Fast Filesystem driver for > > windows 2000?. I have a machine that dual boots, and I can see the NTFS > > under FreeBSD no problem, but I would like to see my freebsd volume under > > windows, too. > > > > Is this a good project for me to do, or has someone done this already? > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 11:19:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmonster.de (datasink.webmonster.de [194.162.162.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ABA0F37B6A6 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:18:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 84247 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Feb 2001 19:18:49 -0000 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:18:49 +0100 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Mike Smith Cc: Matt Dillon , "Michael C . Wu" , Mitch Collinsworth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning Message-ID: <20010209201849.B48420@rohrbach.de> Reply-To: karsten@rohrbach.de References: <200102051750.f15HoZ021657@earth.backplane.com> <200102052052.f15KqOe00985@mass.dis.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200102052052.f15KqOe00985@mass.dis.org>; from msmith@freebsd.org on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 12:52:24PM -0800 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-Sender: karsten@rohrbach.de Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith(msmith@freebsd.org)@Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 12:52:24PM -0800: > > You can't do this with a NetApp either; they max out at about 6TB now > (going up to around 12 or so soon). You might want to talk to EMC and/or > IBM, both of whom have *extremely* large filers. from my experiences with filers (we have both, country and western here - eg. netapp f740/760 and emc^2 symmetrix/connectrix) i can only say that emc is a pile of sh** - no pun intended. actually the boxes work okay, but you need a shitload of datamover boxes from emc to achieve performance similar to netapp's 760 series (up to 12 data movers with 2gig of ram each). emc goes brute force, netapp use their brains. when it comes to ibm, as far as i understand you have to hook up their filers to rs/6000(aix) or s/370 or s/390 systems since they are "only" fibrechannel or ficon attached raid subsystems, so the client platform is responsible for handling all the filesystem stuff. you might also check out lsi logic's filer products, i think they support 12tb via nas. > > Your friend may also want to look at Traakan, who have a novel product in > this space. i checked out their website which says "under construction" strange... /k > > -- > ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his > rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want > to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force > people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] > V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message -- > Hackers know all the right MOVs. KR433/KR11-RIPE -- http://www.webmonster.de -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 11:55:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9368437B684 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:54:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 985 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Feb 2001 19:54:25 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 19:54:25 -0000 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:54:25 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Dan Nelson Cc: Matt Dillon , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: qmail IO problems In-Reply-To: <20010205232029.A2491@dan.emsphone.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yes the fbsd 4.2 has softupdates in the kernel by default. On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Dan Nelson wrote: > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:20:29 -0600 > From: Dan Nelson > To: Matt Dillon > Cc: Dan Phoenix , > Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , > freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: qmail IO problems > > In the last episode (Feb 05), Matt Dillon said: > > (also: do not use async mounts with softupdates. Just enable > > softupdates with tunefs, then mount the filesystem normally). > > .. and make sure you've got "options SOFTUPDATES" in your kernel. You > can verify that softupdates is running by looking at the output of the > "mount" command: > > /dev/da0s1f on /usr (ufs, NFS exported, local, soft-updates) > > > -- > Dan Nelson > dnelson@emsphone.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 12:20:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (c228380-a.sfmissn1.sfba.home.com [24.20.90.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA24537B6A2; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:20:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f19KMDH00585; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:22:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200102092022.f19KMDH00585@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: karsten@rohrbach.de Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 20:18:49 +0100." <20010209201849.B48420@rohrbach.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 12:22:13 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > when it comes to ibm, as far as i understand you have to hook up their > filers to rs/6000(aix) or s/370 or s/390 systems since they are "only" > fibrechannel or ficon attached raid subsystems, so the client platform > is responsible for handling all the filesystem stuff. Hrrm. The last box I looked at included a pair of RS6000's in the cabinet, and they were touting it as a NAS, but I wasn't paying so much attention then. > > Your friend may also want to look at Traakan, who have a novel product in > > this space. > i checked out their website which says "under construction" > strange... Definitely; they had some neat stuff up there a week or two ago... -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 12:34:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (207-167-15-66.dsl.worldgate.ca [207.167.15.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03BE37B6A8; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:34:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f19KYGi01493; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:34:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Message-Id: <200102092034.f19KYGi01493@orthanc.ab.ca> To: Mike Smith Cc: karsten@rohrbach.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 12:22:13 PST." <200102092022.f19KMDH00585@mass.dis.org> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:34:16 -0700 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Another company to look at is Yottayotta (www.yottayotta.com). They just announced their first products last November, and there isn't much hard product info online yet. For the arena they're targeting, though, 70TB would be an entry level system. --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 12:51:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from diskfarm.firehouse.net (rdu26-60-051.nc.rr.com [66.26.60.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E0A337B684 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:51:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from abc@localhost) by diskfarm.firehouse.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f19KoSV76888; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:50:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from abc) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:50:27 -0500 From: Alan Clegg To: Lyndon Nerenberg Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning Message-ID: <20010209155027.G73554@diskfarm.firehouse.net> References: <200102092022.f19KMDH00585@mass.dis.org> <200102092034.f19KYGi01493@orthanc.ab.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <200102092034.f19KYGi01493@orthanc.ab.ca>; from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 01:34:16PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Unless the network is lying to me again, Lyndon Nerenberg said: > Another company to look at is Yottayotta (www.yottayotta.com). Yeah, and they have a theme song... http://www.yottayotta.com/images/YottaYotta_Song.mp3 Or is that a reason *NOT* to look at their product? AlanC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 12:52: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from phobos.talarian.com (mailhost.talarian.com [207.5.32.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE73837B6B0; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:51:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from quack.kfu.com (beast.talarian.com [10.4.10.6] (may be forged)) by phobos.talarian.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA15912; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:51:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A84582E.3000702@quack.kfu.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 12:50:54 -0800 From: Nick Sayer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010123 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Black Cc: kris@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? References: <200102082355.f18NtfF89134@medusa.kfu.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Black wrote: > Nick Sayer wrote: > >> Would it generally be viewed as helpful to add the option of reporting >> the md5 for the files listed in /var/log/setuid.*? > > > I don't see the benefit in this if either the md5 binary or the > comparison file are on writable storage (which is almost always > going to be true). Then why bother checking at all? Someone can trojan ls, or even easier, arrange to trojan suid binaries without changing the things that show up in that listing. Besides, security conscious folks could set the immutable flag for md5 and/or the comparison file (and probably sh and ls while they're at it) if they like. For the point kris made, I'm not sure he understood what I was suggesting -- I'm not suggesting just printing the md5 of the files when you notice they've changed, but adding the md5 as another trigger for deciding which files have changed. Adding it as a field in /var/log/setuid.* would achieve this end. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13: 0:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (207-167-15-66.dsl.worldgate.ca [207.167.15.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDCCA37B67D for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:00:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f19Kxqi01570; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:59:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Message-Id: <200102092059.f19Kxqi01570@orthanc.ab.ca> To: Alan Clegg Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:50:27 EST." <20010209155027.G73554@diskfarm.firehouse.net> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:59:52 -0700 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Alan" == Alan Clegg writes: Alan> Or is that a reason *NOT* to look at their product? I'd buy the storage gear, but I think I'll pass on the album ;-) --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13: 1:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (c228380-a.sfmissn1.sfba.home.com [24.20.90.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C92FA37B67D for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:01:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f19L2rH00885; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:02:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200102092102.f19L2rH00885@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Alan Clegg Cc: Lyndon Nerenberg , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:50:27 EST." <20010209155027.G73554@diskfarm.firehouse.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:02:53 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Unless the network is lying to me again, Lyndon Nerenberg said: > > Another company to look at is Yottayotta (www.yottayotta.com). > > Yeah, and they have a theme song... > > http://www.yottayotta.com/images/YottaYotta_Song.mp3 > > Or is that a reason *NOT* to look at their product? Heh. The theme song was a worry. As was the fact that they are well-staffed at the management level, but they are still advertising for some *very* key development and architectural positions. What do we know about companies with lots of VP-level employees now? 8( -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13: 3:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE89337B67D; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:03:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f19L33w00394; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:03:03 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dan) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:03:03 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: Chris Dillon Cc: Bill Paul , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: call for testers: port aggregation netgraph module Message-ID: <20010209150303.A22605@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20010208212509.E8D7D37B6AA@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.14i In-Reply-To: ; from "Chris Dillon" on Thu Feb 8 20:13:33 GMT 2001 X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Feb 08), Chris Dillon said: > > The channel bonding is done using the Cisco fast etherchannel > > mechanism. The default hashing mechanism uses the MAC address, > > however you can select IP address hashing as well. IPv4 and IPv6 > > address *should* work, though I must admit I've been using IPv4 > > until now. If someone actually has a Cisco switch that implements > > fast ethetchannel, I'd be interested to know if it works with this > > module. At the moment, my test environment consist of two machines > > with multiport ethernet cards wired up using four crossover cables. > > Apparently there is another way to do channel bonding with switches > that don't support Cisco's EtherChannel, since I'm doing it with > 3COM's (piece of *hit) SuperStackII switches and I don't have > EtherChannel support enabled in Compaq's NT drivers for their Intel > NICs. I've just finished scouring Cisco's documentation, and it doesn't look like FEC is anything beyond plain old trunking (with the option of autoconfiguration on some hardware). As long as you configure the appropriate ports on the switch on the other end as "SA-Trunk", or "Trunk", you should be okay. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13:10:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (c228380-a.sfmissn1.sfba.home.com [24.20.90.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C7337B4EC; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:10:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f19LC9H00950; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:12:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200102092112.f19LC9H00950@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Dan Nelson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: call for testers: port aggregation netgraph module In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:03:03 CST." <20010209150303.A22605@dan.emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:12:09 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I've just finished scouring Cisco's documentation, and it doesn't look > like FEC is anything beyond plain old trunking (with the option of > autoconfiguration on some hardware). As long as you configure the > appropriate ports on the switch on the other end as "SA-Trunk", or > "Trunk", you should be okay. The important thing to understand is that Etherchannel is just a mechanism for selecting an outbound port in a trunk; it's completely agnostic about where stuff comes in from, and involves no peer negotiation or anything funky like one might expect. An interesting corollary of this is that Bill's code could easily be expanded to support symmetrical or asymmetrical load balancing, true link redundancy, etc. by an enterprising individual. Also, just to state the obvious - if people want this code tested with a particular piece of hardware, just send it to Bill. He can't resist that sort of temptation. 8) -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13:10:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 972DA37B69C for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:10:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from xor.obsecurity.org ([63.207.60.67]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G8I001B6D7NVD@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:04:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by xor.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C334666B62; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:07:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:07:18 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? In-reply-to: <3A84582E.3000702@quack.kfu.com>; from nsayer@quack.kfu.com on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 12:50:54PM -0800 To: Nick Sayer Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010209130718.A64967@mollari.cthul.hu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ" Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <200102082355.f18NtfF89134@medusa.kfu.com> <3A84582E.3000702@quack.kfu.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 12:50:54PM -0800, Nick Sayer wrote: > For the point kris made, I'm not sure he understood what I was=20 > suggesting -- I'm not suggesting just printing the md5 of the files when= =20 > you notice they've changed, but adding the md5 as another trigger for=20 > deciding which files have changed. Adding it as a field in=20 > /var/log/setuid.* would achieve this end. Okay, you could use it to compare the files, as long as it's filtered out of the email itself. Kris --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6hFwGWry0BWjoQKURAsbSAKD2ABOOb0jpWG2lk15utg8o8Iy/IwCg6tSB c82b6n8y8vWLlvrIfteSl3A= =hMEU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13:15:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (207-167-15-66.dsl.worldgate.ca [207.167.15.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F25E37B69C; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f19LFIi01657; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:15:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Message-Id: <200102092115.f19LFIi01657@orthanc.ab.ca> To: Mike Smith Cc: Alan Clegg , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Extremely large (70TB) File system/server planning In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:02:53 PST." <200102092102.f19L2rH00885@mass.dis.org> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:15:18 -0700 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Mike" == Mike Smith writes: Mike> As was the fact that they are well-staffed at the management Mike> level, but they are still advertising for some *very* key Mike> development and architectural positions. Actually, they have a bunch of *very* bright engineers working there. Much of the crew comes from Myrias Research, who were doing some very bleeding edge parallel computing work in the mid to late '80s. (Too bleeding edge for the marketplace, unfortunately ...) --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13:17:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0B2F937B699 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 76480 invoked by uid 1001); 10 Feb 2001 07:16:55 +1000 X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.12 07-Feb-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/ X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/img/gjb-auug048.gif X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-pgpkey.asc Message-Id: Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 07:16:55 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Nick Sayer Cc: kris@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? References: <200102082355.f18NtfF89134@medusa.kfu.com> <3A84582E.3000702@quack.kfu.com> In-reply-to: <3A84582E.3000702@quack.kfu.com> of Fri, 09 Feb 2001 12:50:54 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nick Sayer wrote: > Greg Black wrote: > > > Nick Sayer wrote: > > > >> Would it generally be viewed as helpful to add the option of reporting > >> the md5 for the files listed in /var/log/setuid.*? > > > > I don't see the benefit in this if either the md5 binary or the > > comparison file are on writable storage (which is almost always > > going to be true). > > Then why bother checking at all? Someone can trojan ls, or even easier, > arrange to trojan suid binaries without changing the things that show up > in that listing. This is in fact my point. The automated checks are just an indicator of changes that have happened on a normally running system -- they do nothing to guarantee that nothing has been tampered with by black hats and adding the md5 checks won't change that. They add to the cost of the checks without proving anything. The existing stuff warns me when an authorised admin has replaced a setuid program so that I can take any appropriate steps if I want to. But I have to employ other strategies (with tools like tripwire and off-line or read-only storage) if I want to make serious checks on vulnerable systems. > Besides, security conscious folks could set the immutable flag for md5 > and/or the comparison file (and probably sh and ls while they're at it) > if they like. Unless things have changed, the use of elevated security levels (which are necessary if those flags are to have any force) has side effects that make them useless on lots of systems (e.g., inability to run X). Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13:29:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DCE6E37B699 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 25534 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Feb 2001 21:28:21 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:28:21 -0000 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:28:21 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: http://www.emulex.com/fc/lp8000.html Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG WHo would I contact for support for freebsd for that driver? -- Dan +------------------------------------------------------+ | BRAVENET WEB SERVICES | | dan@bravenet.com | | make installworld | | ln -s /var/qmail/bin/sendmail /usr/sbin/sendmail | | ln -s /var/qmail/bin/newaliases /usr/sbin/newaliases | +______________________________________________________+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13:34:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183D537B69C for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:33:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeppo.feral.com (IDENT:mjacob@zeppo [192.67.166.71]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24869; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:33:56 -0800 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:33:51 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Dan Phoenix Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.emulex.com/fc/lp8000.html In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Me, if you like. I even have a card. I'll piss off Qlogic, but so be it. But you have to get real engineering info for support. If somebody else here wants to take this, that'd be fine too, but make sure we coordinate so that we have a good fc services midlayer (i.e., to share fabric && port login databases and policies). -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13:37: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D72937B6A1 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:36:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 15036 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Feb 2001 21:36:16 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:36:16 -0000 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:36:15 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Matthew Jacob Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.emulex.com/fc/lp8000.html In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have about 10 min to make decision on OS of this box....i hate linux but I may have no choice....i have to get this up as an nfs server by the end of the day. On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Matthew Jacob wrote: > Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:33:51 -0800 (PST) > From: Matthew Jacob > To: Dan Phoenix > Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: http://www.emulex.com/fc/lp8000.html > > > Me, if you like. I even have a card. I'll piss off Qlogic, but so be it. But > you have to get real engineering info for support. > > If somebody else here wants to take this, that'd be fine too, but make sure we > coordinate so that we have a good fc services midlayer (i.e., to share fabric > && port login databases and policies). > > -matt > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13:38:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (c228380-a.sfmissn1.sfba.home.com [24.20.90.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA64037B684 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:38:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f19LdtH01118; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:39:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200102092139.f19LdtH01118@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Dan Phoenix Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: http://www.emulex.com/fc/lp8000.html In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:28:21 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:39:55 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > WHo would I contact for support for freebsd for that driver? Emulex, as they don't offer source or documentation for the hardware. You may want to look at a Qlogic-based controller instead. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13:41: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (c228380-a.sfmissn1.sfba.home.com [24.20.90.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51BA937B503 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:40:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f19LgXH01158; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:42:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200102092142.f19LgXH01158@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Matthew Jacob , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.emulex.com/fc/lp8000.html In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:36:15 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:42:33 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I have about 10 min to make decision on OS of this box....i hate linux but > I may have no choice....i have to get this up as an nfs server by the end > of the day. Solaris. Forget Linux for NFS service. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13:46:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [64.0.106.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481EC37B4EC; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:45:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA39461; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:44:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:44:03 -0500 (EST) From: To: Mike Smith Cc: Dan Phoenix , Matthew Jacob , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.emulex.com/fc/lp8000.html In-Reply-To: <200102092142.f19LgXH01158@mass.dis.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Mike Smith wrote: > Solaris. Forget Linux for NFS service. As was indicitve of the qmail/softupdates problem that was finally resolved with postfix on FreeBSD, this problem also is the direct result of a PHB. :-/ ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! ICQ: 20016186 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13:49:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 43D0F37B503 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:49:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 79868 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 21:46:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO monzoon.net) ([195.134.128.42]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 9 Feb 2001 21:46:43 -0000 Message-ID: <3A84659C.F841F58E@monzoon.net> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:48:12 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Dillon Cc: Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <200102062018.f16KIdx66146@earth.backplane.com> <200102090602.f1962cM19819@earth.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > > Well, after a long conversation with Mr Bernstein and Kirk it turns out > that all my blathering about a normal FFS mount being easily corruptable > due to a crash occuring during heavy disk I/O (e.g. from qmail) is so > much smoke. > > The fsync()/rename() combination that QMail does should be sufficient to > guarentee (baring a bug in kernel) that a crash will not result in any > lost mail queue files when using a normal FFS mount (without softupdates). > > However, I still recommend using softupdates. I do. Is it safe there as well (from your point of view)? -- Andre > -Matt > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 13:52:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B0BD37B699 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:52:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22599 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Feb 2001 21:51:30 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:51:30 -0000 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:51:30 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Phoenix To: Mike Smith Cc: Matthew Jacob , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.emulex.com/fc/lp8000.html In-Reply-To: <200102092142.f19LgXH01158@mass.dis.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ya well i think solaris should stay on sun hardware. ....we'll see.... On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Mike Smith wrote: > Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:42:33 -0800 > From: Mike Smith > To: Dan Phoenix > Cc: Matthew Jacob , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: http://www.emulex.com/fc/lp8000.html > > > > > I have about 10 min to make decision on OS of this box....i hate linux but > > I may have no choice....i have to get this up as an nfs server by the end > > of the day. > > Solaris. Forget Linux for NFS service. > > -- > ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his > rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want > to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force > people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] > V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 14: 0:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A2237B6B6; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:00:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeppo.feral.com (IDENT:mjacob@zeppo [192.67.166.71]) by feral.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25066; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:00:22 -0800 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:00:19 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Dan Phoenix Cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: http://www.emulex.com/fc/lp8000.html In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Dan Phoenix wrote: > > Ya well i think solaris should stay on sun hardware. Of course! So buy a Cobalt rack system! :-) > ....we'll see.... > > > > On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Mike Smith wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:42:33 -0800 > > From: Mike Smith > > To: Dan Phoenix > > Cc: Matthew Jacob , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: http://www.emulex.com/fc/lp8000.html > > > > > > > > I have about 10 min to make decision on OS of this box....i hate linux but > > > I may have no choice....i have to get this up as an nfs server by the end > > > of the day. > > > > Solaris. Forget Linux for NFS service. > > > > -- > > ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his > > rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want > > to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force > > people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] > > V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 14: 2:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tj2.demon.co.uk (tj2.demon.co.uk [158.152.29.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 17B1B37B6B1 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:02:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from tj2.demon.co.uk, ID 3A84689F-6625, Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:01:03 UTC To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: 207.100@tj2.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? Message-ID: <3A84689F.6625@tj2.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:01:03 +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > the use of elevated security levels (which are necessary if > those flags are to have any force) has side effects that make > them useless on lots of systems (e.g., inability to run X). Inability to run X ? I'm running at level=3, and X is quite happy. *Starting* X is not possible (AFAIK) at level=3. Good thing it's fairly stable :-) -- Tim Jackson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 14: 4: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dell.dannyland.org (dell.dannyland.org [64.81.36.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3303D37B401 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:03:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by dell.dannyland.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 401905C2C; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:03:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:03:28 -0800 From: dannyman To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20010209140139.D76316@dell.dannyland.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has anyone patched 4.x OpenSSH and/or the relevant ports to deal with the CRC checksum exploit? I've got to get 2.3 working on my 3.x box, but just incrementing the number in the Makefile causes patch-aa to go rejected ... -d -- http://dannyman.toldme.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 14: 8:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hurlame.pdl.cs.cmu.edu (HURLAME.PDL.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.189.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBD2737B401; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:08:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from magus@localhost) by hurlame.pdl.cs.cmu.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f19M7nK01226; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:07:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from magus) To: Wes Peters Cc: Robert Watson , Kevin Brunelle , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel editing tools. References: <3A843CE5.FCA2EE6@softweyr.com> From: Nat Lanza Date: 09 Feb 2001 17:07:48 -0500 In-Reply-To: Wes Peters's message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 11:54:29 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 24 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) XEmacs/21.1 (Channel Islands) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters writes: > We've also implemented a nightly LXR index at work for web browsing of the > source. I've only played with it a little bit, but the indexed searches > are sure fast. I also have one of these up and available for public use at http://lxr.pdl.cs.cmu.edu/. It currently indexes RELENG_4 and current nightly, and has static indexes of a bunch of previous versions (2.0.5, 2.1.7, 2.2.8, 3.0-3.5). It's on a reasonably wimpy machine at the moment, but I'll be sticking it on a faster box next week or so. As far as actual kernel source editing tools, I'll echo the emacs+etags suggestion. --nat -- nat lanza --------------------- research programmer, parallel data lab, cmu scs magus@cs.cmu.edu -------------------------------- http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~magus/ there are no whole truths; all truths are half-truths -- alfred north whitehead To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 14:16: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A524937B401; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:15:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA85794; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:15:38 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:15:38 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: Dan Nelson Cc: Bill Paul , , Subject: Re: call for testers: port aggregation netgraph module In-Reply-To: <20010209150303.A22605@dan.emsphone.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Dan Nelson wrote: > In the last episode (Feb 08), Chris Dillon said: > > > The channel bonding is done using the Cisco fast etherchannel > > > mechanism. The default hashing mechanism uses the MAC address, > > > however you can select IP address hashing as well. IPv4 and IPv6 > > > address *should* work, though I must admit I've been using IPv4 > > > until now. If someone actually has a Cisco switch that implements > > > fast ethetchannel, I'd be interested to know if it works with this > > > module. At the moment, my test environment consist of two machines > > > with multiport ethernet cards wired up using four crossover cables. > > > > Apparently there is another way to do channel bonding with switches > > that don't support Cisco's EtherChannel, since I'm doing it with > > 3COM's (piece of *hit) SuperStackII switches and I don't have > > EtherChannel support enabled in Compaq's NT drivers for their Intel > > NICs. > > I've just finished scouring Cisco's documentation, and it doesn't > look like FEC is anything beyond plain old trunking (with the > option of autoconfiguration on some hardware). As long as you > configure the appropriate ports on the switch on the other end as > "SA-Trunk", or "Trunk", you should be okay. Cool, if thats all it will take, I'll give it a try. But, whatever method Compaq/Intel is using doesn't require me to set up the ports on the switch as being part of a trunk. It "just works". And IIRC, when I actually tried to set the ports on the 3COM switch up as trunk ports, it didn't work right. Maybe 3COM is doing something entirely different. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 14:20:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spider.pilosoft.com (p55-222.acedsl.com [160.79.55.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 511CC37B401; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:20:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (alexmail@localhost) by spider.pilosoft.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17273; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:23:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:23:02 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Pilosov To: Chris Dillon Cc: Dan Nelson , Bill Paul , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: call for testers: port aggregation netgraph module In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Chris Dillon wrote: > On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Dan Nelson wrote: > Cool, if thats all it will take, I'll give it a try. But, whatever > method Compaq/Intel is using doesn't require me to set up the ports on > the switch as being part of a trunk. It "just works". And IIRC, when Its not real trunking. Your incoming traffic will still come on a single link, only outbound traffic will be shared. (Or at least that's how I think compaq stuff will work). > I actually tried to set the ports on the 3COM switch up as trunk > ports, it didn't work right. Maybe 3COM is doing something entirely > different. Prolly. FEC is cisco-specific thingy, like ISL... -alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 14:29: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dell.dannyland.org (dell.dannyland.org [64.81.36.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1E737B491 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:28:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by dell.dannyland.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 142535C2B; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:28:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:28:24 -0800 From: dannyman To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <20010209142824.E76316@dell.dannyland.org> References: <20010209140139.D76316@dell.dannyland.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20010209140139.D76316@dell.dannyland.org>; from dannyman@toldme.com on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 02:03:28PM -0800 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 02:03:28PM -0800, dannyman wrote: > Has anyone patched 4.x OpenSSH and/or the relevant ports to deal with the CRC > checksum exploit? I've got to get 2.3 working on my 3.x box, but just > incrementing the number in the Makefile causes patch-aa to go rejected ... Ohhh, fat fingers. Meant to pester -security. -d To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 14:46:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9514137B67D; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:45:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.11.1/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f19MhFC11639; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:43:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <200102092243.f19MhFC11639@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Alex Pilosov Cc: Chris Dillon , Dan Nelson , Bill Paul , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG X-Image-URL: http://www.transsys.com/louie/images/louie-mail.jpg From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: call for testers: port aggregation netgraph module References: In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:23:02 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:43:15 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The crock in these trunking schemes is all the trouble and effort expended to avoid re-ordering frames across the trunk bundle. This is why you see things like the hashing techniques so that an individual flow of traffic doesn't get reordered because it always is serialized over the a single path. I'll observe that there's nothing in the IP architecture which (should) rely on packets not being reordered. I'll also observe that in a network with multiple ethernet switching running a spanning-tree protocol, you probably should't rely on packet reordering never happening when a link fails and the spanning tree computation is re-run. So, a clever implementation might choose to drain a single queue rather than having multiple queues, one per network interface. Of course, some network stacks don't deal well with TCP segments arriving out-of-order, but they are just broken. louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 14:47:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3729E37B65D; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:47:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA86215; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:47:27 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:47:27 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: Alex Pilosov Cc: Dan Nelson , Bill Paul , , Subject: Re: call for testers: port aggregation netgraph module In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Alex Pilosov wrote: > On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Chris Dillon wrote: > > > Cool, if thats all it will take, I'll give it a try. But, whatever > > method Compaq/Intel is using doesn't require me to set up the ports on > > the switch as being part of a trunk. It "just works". And IIRC, when > > Its not real trunking. Your incoming traffic will still come on a > single link, only outbound traffic will be shared. (Or at least > that's how I think compaq stuff will work). Yes, I think that is how it works. I'd guess that this doesn't matter in most cases since most servers are transmitting much more data than they are receiving. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 14:50:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0294F37B684 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:50:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f19Mnnh52521; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:49:49 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:49:49 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: 207.100@tj2.demon.co.uk Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? In-Reply-To: <3A84689F.6625@tj2.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 207.100@tj2.demon.co.uk wrote: > > the use of elevated security levels (which are necessary if > > those flags are to have any force) has side effects that make > > them useless on lots of systems (e.g., inability to run X). > > Inability to run X ? > > I'm running at level=3, and X is quite happy. *Starting* X is not > possible (AFAIK) at level=3. Good thing it's fairly stable :-) If X has open file descriptors for privileged devices for the purposes of direct memory access, the debugging interfaces (and possibly exploits in shared libraries) can be used to control the X server in such a way that securelevels can be disabled or circumvented. This is because the securelevel checks associated with devices are generally performed on the open() event; the same effect that allows X to keep working after the securelevel is raised allows an attacker to circumvent the protections. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 15: 1:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 618) id D625637B401; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:00:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: call for testers: port aggregation netgraph module In-Reply-To: from Alex Pilosov at "Feb 9, 2001 05:23:02 pm" To: alex@pilosoft.com (Alex Pilosov) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:00:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: dnelson@emsphone.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG, cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010209230049.D625637B401@hub.freebsd.org> From: wpaul@FreeBSD.ORG (Bill Paul) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Chris Dillon wrote: > > > On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Dan Nelson wrote: > > > Cool, if thats all it will take, I'll give it a try. But, whatever > > method Compaq/Intel is using doesn't require me to set up the ports on > > the switch as being part of a trunk. It "just works". And IIRC, when > Its not real trunking. Your incoming traffic will still come on a single > link, only outbound traffic will be shared. (Or at least that's how I > think compaq stuff will work). That doesn't make any sense. If a host on one side of the channel can transmit over multiple links, then the host on the other end by definintion has to be able to receive over multiple links. The ng_fec module does an XOR of the bottom few bits of the source and destination addresses of a packet. (You can use either the ethernet addresses or the IP addresses.) The resulting value is used to select a port from the bundle and the packet is transmitted over that port. This means that all traffic in a given 'flow' will use the same link. (If the link is dead, the next link over is used instead.) For reception, all the traffic received from all of the interfaces in the bundle is simply dumped into the input queue for the fec0 pseudo-interface. This involves intercepting frames at the top of ether_input() using one of the netgraph vectors that was added there, and chancing the rcvif pointer in the mbuf header. -Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 15:24:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4523437B698 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:24:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f19NODX15558; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:24:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:24:13 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102092324.f19NODX15558@earth.backplane.com> To: Andre Oppermann Cc: Rik van Riel , Mike Silbersack , Poul-Henning Kamp , Charles Randall , Dan Phoenix , Alfred Perlstein , Jos Backus , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <200102062018.f16KIdx66146@earth.backplane.com> <200102090602.f1962cM19819@earth.backplane.com> <3A84659C.F841F58E@monzoon.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I do. Is it safe there as well (from your point of view)? : :-- :Andre Yes. In general softupdates will make the entire filesystem safer. The commit sequencing doesn't match what qmail expects, but there are so many fsyncs going on that the absolute worse that can happen in a crash is a just-deleted queue file showing up in the queue directory after crash recovery. And, really, qmail shouldn't be making assumptions about system calls committing operations to disk synchronously. Very few modern filesystems actually do that... FFS (without softupdates) is one of the last ones. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 15:30:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hand.dotat.at (sfo-gw.covalent.net [207.44.198.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14D237B69B; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:30:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from fanf by hand.dotat.at with local (Exim 3.20 #3) id 14RMzo-0006dS-00; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 23:30:32 +0000 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:30:32 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: Robert Watson Cc: 207.100@tj2.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? Message-ID: <20010209233032.S461@hand.dotat.at> References: <3A84689F.6625@tj2.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: Organization: Covalent Technologies, Inc Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson wrote: > >If X has open file descriptors for privileged devices for the purposes of >direct memory access, the debugging interfaces (and possibly exploits in >shared libraries) can be used to control the X server in such a way that >securelevels can be disabled or circumvented. Does the OpenBSD aperture device solve that problem? Tony. -- f.a.n.finch fanf@covalent.net dot@dotat.at FINISTERRE SOLE: SOUTHEASTERLY VEERING SOUTHWESTERLY 5 TO 7, OCCASIONALLY GALE 8. OCCASIONAL RAIN. MODERATE OR POOR. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 15:41:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from usc.edu (usc.edu [128.125.253.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF2F37B6AC for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:41:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from skat.usc.edu (root@skat.usc.edu [128.125.253.131]) by usc.edu (8.9.3.1/8.9.3/usc) with ESMTP id PAA05693; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:41:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from skat.usc.edu (walker@skat.usc.edu [128.125.253.131]) by skat.usc.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1/usc) with ESMTP id f19NfS710863; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:41:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:41:27 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Walker To: janb@cs.utep.edu Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FFS Driver for win2000? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Windoze 2000 is supposed to support NFS, so why not use that instead? >Does anybody know of any attempt to write a Fast Filesystem driver for >windows 2000?. I have a machine that dual boots, and I can see the NTFS >under FreeBSD no problem, but I would like to see my freebsd volume under >windows, too. > >Is this a good project for me to do, or has someone done this already? > >JAn To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 15:51:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (207-167-15-66.dsl.worldgate.ca [207.167.15.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC81237B6B4; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f19NnHi02402; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:49:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Message-Id: <200102092349.f19NnHi02402@orthanc.ab.ca> To: Chris Dillon Cc: Alex Pilosov , Dan Nelson , Bill Paul , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: call for testers: port aggregation netgraph module In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:47:27 CST." Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:49:17 -0700 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Dillon writes: >> Its not real trunking. Your incoming traffic will still come on >> a single link, only outbound traffic will be shared. (Or at >> least that's how I think compaq stuff will work). Chris> Yes, I think that is how it works. I'd guess that this Chris> doesn't matter in most cases since most servers are Chris> transmitting much more data than they are receiving. For the Cisco scheme, let n equal the number of network interfaces in the bundle. For each packet sent from the bundled host (i.e. the host with bundled interfaces) mask off all but the bottom log2(n) bits and use the result to select the interface to use. E.g.: u_int if_cnt = 4; /* we have four interfaces */ u_int64_t mac; /* the mac address we're sending to */ struct iftab if[n]; /* list of interface entries */ u_int64_t mask = ~0 & (n-1); /* mask for iftab index */ if[mac & mask]->send(data); (Thus if_cnt must be a power of 2.) At zero state, something ARPs for the hosts address. The calculation above determines which interface the response goes out on, and therefore determines which of the MAC addresses the requester sees for the host. The switches can (and usually do) have some smarts in them as well. They know which interfaces are part of the bundle for the host, allowing them to maximize the flow of traffic _to_ the host by redirecting packets to lightly used interfaces. (The bundled host doesn't care which interface the packets arrives on.) This is also necessary to work around interface failure. So assuming a 100 Mb/s switched network fabric and four interfaces on the bundled host, the bundled host can sustain up to 100 Mb/s full-duplex with each of four seperate remote hosts concurrently (400 Mb/s aggregate). It won't let you sustain 400 Mb/s to _one_ remote host (even if the remote also has four bundled interfaces). This works quite well for NFS servers if you have a lot of clients. And it's usually cheaper than putting in gigabit ethernet on the switch and server. (Plus you get redundency from the multiple interfaces.) --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 16: 0:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (207-167-15-66.dsl.worldgate.ca [207.167.15.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D26EB37B6B8; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:00:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1A006i02488; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:00:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Message-Id: <200102100000.f1A006i02488@orthanc.ab.ca> To: net@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: call for testers: port aggregation netgraph module In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:49:17 MST." <200102092349.f19NnHi02402@orthanc.ab.ca> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:00:06 -0700 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry, my brain's fried this afternoon. < u_int64_t mask = ~0 & (n-1); /* mask for iftab index */ > u_int64_t mask = n-1; /* mask for iftab index */ --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 16:41:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from virtual.valuelinx.net (virtual.valuelinx.net [208.189.209.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827AB37B4EC for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:41:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from penix.org (Toronto-ppp221366.sympatico.ca [64.228.106.183]) by virtual.valuelinx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA16238 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:41:25 GMT Message-ID: <3A849074.76C43CEC@penix.org> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 19:51:00 -0500 From: Paul Halliday X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Handspring. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What are the chances of porting to this baby? -- Paul H. ============================================================================ Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. Brute force is the last resort of the incompetent. GPG Key fingerprint: 2D7C A7E2 DB1F EA5F 8C6F D5EC 3D39 F274 4AA3 E8B9 Web: http://www3.sympatico.ca/transmogrify/cl.html <--NEW Public Key available here: http://www3.sympatico.ca/transmogrify/dp.txt ============================================================================ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 16:50:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C5337B6A4 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:50:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f1A0nwV23651; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:49:58 -0800 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:49:58 -0800 From: Brooks Davis To: Paul Halliday Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Handspring. Message-ID: <20010209164958.A22634@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <3A849074.76C43CEC@penix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3A849074.76C43CEC@penix.org>; from dp@penix.org on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 07:51:00PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 07:51:00PM -0500, Paul Halliday wrote: > > What are the chances of porting to this baby? None what so ever. The processor on the Handsping (and all other current PalmOS based devices) doesn't have an MMU and most UNIX-like OSes assume you have one. There is a Linux port of some sort and I've heard mention that there's some intrest in the NetBSD community, but itty-bitty, feature-poor processors don't really fit with FreeBSD's server/embedded (generally high-end embedded systems) focus. In the future there may be PalmOS based devices that you could port FreeBSD to, but that will be after then finish the hardware abstraction layer. Once someone gets around to doing the work, the StrongARM port should work on HP iPAQs, but that's not what you were asking. -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 17:40:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0716037B401 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 79060 invoked by uid 1001); 10 Feb 2001 11:40:32 +1000 X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.12 07-Feb-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/ X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/img/gjb-auug048.gif X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-pgpkey.asc Message-Id: Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:40:32 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Matt Dillon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <200102062018.f16KIdx66146@earth.backplane.com> <200102090602.f1962cM19819@earth.backplane.com> <3A84659C.F841F58E@monzoon.net> <200102092324.f19NODX15558@earth.backplane.com> In-reply-to: <200102092324.f19NODX15558@earth.backplane.com> of Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:24:13 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > Yes. In general softupdates will make the entire filesystem safer. Does it make sense to use softupdates on file systems like / and /usr which have little file creation/removal? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 18:32:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E134937B401 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:32:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f1A2Vgd20496; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:31:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:31:42 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200102100231.f1A2Vgd20496@earth.backplane.com> To: Greg Black Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <3A805035.C71AAD5E@monzoon.net> <200102061943.f16Jhp365113@earth.backplane.com> <3A805938.96ED890D@monzoon.net> <200102062018.f16KIdx66146@earth.backplane.com> <200102090602.f1962cM19819@earth.backplane.com> <3A84659C.F841F58E@monzoon.net> <200102092324.f19NODX15558@earth.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :Matt Dillon wrote: : :> Yes. In general softupdates will make the entire filesystem safer. : :Does it make sense to use softupdates on file systems like / and :/usr which have little file creation/removal? : :Greg I have had softupdates turned on for all of my mount points for over a year. For /, the only issue is that if you have too small a root parition a 'make installworld' may run the filesystem out of space faster then softupdates can free the blocks. My root partition is always 128M for that reason (and also so I can throw a few kernel.debug images in there). My recommendation is to turn softupdates on for everything you have, and for us to make it a newfs default as well. At least in -stable. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 20:16:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (unknown [65.24.0.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B40737B4EC for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from columbus.rr.com (dhcp065-024-106-170.columbus.rr.com [65.24.106.170]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1A4EFN04178 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:14:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A84BF7A.2529DAD4@columbus.rr.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 23:11:38 -0500 From: Kenny Drobnack Reply-To: supenguin@bigfoot.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.18 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount checking for read-only media References: <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> <20010209181342S.non@ever.sanda.gr.jp> <3A841662.B061A317@netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So it seems that probably all block devices have this bug. I haven't tried it with an ATA or SCSI hard drive, tape drive, or any flash RAM type stuff. The problem does occur on standard floppy disks and on my parallel port zip drives. If/when I do mess with it, I think I'll stick with the Unix tradition of never making the OS assume it knows more than the user. Some kind of force option to mount the partition read-write, even if it seems to be read-only seems good... Expect to see more postings, if I get around to messing with the kernel and don't understand. Hopefully a couple patches will appear on this list soon :-) > > It's not system call but `od' driver does check if the medium is > > writable or not. It returns EACCESS when the mount option is -rw and > > the medium is read-only. `od' is drived from `da' so quick hack will > > do the trick. > > This is all for scsi drives. I may not know everything, but I know most > floppies aren't scsi! But, I am sure the problem exists for both. I know > from experience that is exists or did exist for ata drives. I think he > would be more likely to find the code for his problem in the 'ad' driver > files. I could be wrong about this... but I know I had this happen to me > on a computer without scsi equipment before. Of course, if he has a scsi > zip drive as well, then both need to get fixed. ;-) > > Kevin Brunelle > -- > "Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, > for they are subtle and quick to anger." > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 20:22:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (unknown [65.24.0.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 586AA37B401 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:22:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from columbus.rr.com (dhcp065-024-106-170.columbus.rr.com [65.24.106.170]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1A4JaN05473 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:19:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A84C0BC.666A97F5@columbus.rr.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 23:17:00 -0500 From: Kenny Drobnack Reply-To: supenguin@bigfoot.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.18 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Handspring. References: <3A849074.76C43CEC@penix.org> <20010209164958.A22634@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Do you mean getting FreeBSD ported to the Handspring, or do you mean using FreeBSD to sync with it? As for porting FreeBSD to it it sounds like Brooks knows what he's talking about. As far as syncing a Handspring Visor with FreeBSD - dunno. Tried using the coldsync program which was meant for syncing Palm Pilots, and the coldsync web page claims that it works with Visors too. When I run coldsync, I get a message "Please press the hotsync button" and when I hit the button I get the message two more times, and then either it locked up or the whole system locks up. Same results using a serial cradle instead of the USB cradle that came with it. I noticed Linux has a Handspring Visor driver, not sure what's up with that. > > What are the chances of porting to this baby? > > None what so ever. The processor on the Handsping (and all other current > PalmOS based devices) doesn't have an MMU and most UNIX-like OSes assume > you have one. There is a Linux port of some sort and I've heard mention > that there's some intrest in the NetBSD community, but itty-bitty, > feature-poor processors don't really fit with FreeBSD's server/embedded > (generally high-end embedded systems) focus. In the future there may > be PalmOS based devices that you could port FreeBSD to, but that will > be after then finish the hardware abstraction layer. Once someone gets > around to doing the work, the StrongARM port should work on HP iPAQs, > but that's not what you were asking. > > -- Brooks > > -- > Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 21:30:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBDAA37B4EC; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:30:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RSkR-0000c9-00; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:39:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3A84D3F7.1CCE62A3@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:39:03 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nick Sayer Cc: Greg Black , kris@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? References: <200102082355.f18NtfF89134@medusa.kfu.com> <3A84582E.3000702@quack.kfu.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nick Sayer wrote: > > Greg Black wrote: > > > Nick Sayer wrote: > > > >> Would it generally be viewed as helpful to add the option of reporting > >> the md5 for the files listed in /var/log/setuid.*? > > > > > > I don't see the benefit in this if either the md5 binary or the > > comparison file are on writable storage (which is almost always > > going to be true). > > Then why bother checking at all? Someone can trojan ls, or even easier, > arrange to trojan suid binaries without changing the things that show up > in that listing. > > Besides, security conscious folks could set the immutable flag for md5 > and/or the comparison file (and probably sh and ls while they're at it) > if they like. > > For the point kris made, I'm not sure he understood what I was > suggesting -- I'm not suggesting just printing the md5 of the files when > you notice they've changed, but adding the md5 as another trigger for > deciding which files have changed. Adding it as a field in > /var/log/setuid.* would achieve this end. Add a list of executables and their MD5's to the kernel, to be loaded at boot time via the loader. Modify the kernel loader to refuse to exec any executable whose MD5 is known but doesn't match. Ditto for shared libraries and ld.so. There you have it, a system that cannot be upgraded except in single-user mode. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 21:39: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923D137B401 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from xor.obsecurity.org ([63.207.60.67]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G8J00HIE0O6IL@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:31:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by xor.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4643C66B62; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 21:34:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 21:34:04 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? In-reply-to: <3A84D3F7.1CCE62A3@softweyr.com>; from wes@softweyr.com on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 10:39:03PM -0700 To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010209213404.A85235@mollari.cthul.hu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe" Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <200102082355.f18NtfF89134@medusa.kfu.com> <3A84582E.3000702@quack.kfu.com> <3A84D3F7.1CCE62A3@softweyr.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 10:39:03PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Add a list of executables and their MD5's to the kernel, to be loaded at > boot time via the loader. Modify the kernel loader to refuse to exec > any executable whose MD5 is known but doesn't match. Ditto for shared > libraries and ld.so. There you have it, a system that cannot be=20 > upgraded except in single-user mode. Be sure not to allow any scripting languages to be executed. Getting away without /bin/sh might be tough, you can probably do a lot with builtins if you're creative. Kris --G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6hNLLWry0BWjoQKURAoGkAKCarhDAbKEOdnl7544mrJVaE4k/AACgv2e1 FG3SqJ3NrEylPm16Pa/ibok= =KzPG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --G4iJoqBmSsgzjUCe-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 9 22:22:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bucky.excite.com (bucky-rwcmex.excite.com [198.3.99.218]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F1E537B491 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:21:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from pugsly.excite.com ([199.172.148.160]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010210062154.ZLZP20854.bucky.excite.com@pugsly.excite.com> for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:21:54 -0800 Message-ID: <22547061.981786114631.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:21:54 -0800 (PST) From: John Wilson To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: operator new with C++ and pthreads Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 192.116.157.236 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, fellow hackers, I have written my own little memory management system optimized for the needs of a multi-threaded server written in C++. I have defined my own inline void* operator new(size_t size) and inline void operator delete(void *ptr) but gcc (g++) doesn't seem to want to link them in, and uses its own __builtin_new and __builtin_delete instead. I'm using FreeBSD RELENG_4, and compile everything -pthread -static. Incidentally, the same application compiles and works correctly on NT/Win2K. :( John Wilson _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 0:43:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mink01.tirloni.co.uk (200-191-39-232-as.acessonet.com.br [200.191.39.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF8F137B491 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:43:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mink01 (mink01 [127.0.0.1]) by mink01.tirloni.co.uk (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f1A8UFH03990; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 06:30:18 -0200 (BRST) (envelope-from tirloni@techie.com) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 06:30:15 -0200 (BRST) From: "Giovanni P. Tirloni" X-Sender: tirloni@mink01.tirloni.co.uk To: Mike Walker Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FFS Driver for win2000? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Because it's a dual boot machine. He wants to be able to see his FFS volume under Windows just like you are able to see a Windows partition under FreeBSD. You simply can't use NFS in this situation for obvious reasons. On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Mike Walker wrote: > Windoze 2000 is supposed to support NFS, so why not use that instead? > > >Does anybody know of any attempt to write a Fast Filesystem driver for > >windows 2000?. I have a machine that dual boots, and I can see the NTFS > >under FreeBSD no problem, but I would like to see my freebsd volume under > >windows, too. > > > >Is this a good project for me to do, or has someone done this already? > > > >JAn > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > Giovanni P. Tirloni tirloni@techie.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 2: 9:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jkbank.com.jo (unknown [194.165.142.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA13437B401 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 02:09:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by JKBANK with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:15:09 +0200 Message-ID: <41341ADC959BD411BFA40004ACD7F01B074D3E@JKBANK> From: Mohy Awatli To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:15:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 3:16:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from server2.intervision.co.il (unknown [216.167.107.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC3137B401 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 03:15:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from httpd@localhost) by server2.intervision.co.il (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05733; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:59:36 +0200 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:59:36 +0200 From: webmaster@freehostedcgi.com Message-Id: <200102101059.MAA05733@server2.intervision.co.il> X-Authentication-Warning: server2.intervision.co.il: httpd set sender to webmaster@freehostedcgi.com using -f To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Great news !!! Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ******************************************************* ******************************************************* This is not a spam, this e-mail was sent under the DB of FreeHostedCgi.com if you wish to be removed read below ******************************************************* ******************************************************* We got Great news for all our members out there.. The Topsite system is READY, yes yes.. the long waited system is finally ready it's the best and most featured system out there and we want you ! to test it.. First 10 users that will replay to rea@freehostedcgi.com will get a special Test version on the system now i'm sure you ask yourself what about all the other users.. well.. Everyone will be able to setup their own Topsite script but first we need those special people that will agree to test it so it will be Truly perfect.. again.. i'm sorry if you got this massage by mistake and if you wish to remove yourself from that mailing list just mail to rea@freehostedcgi.com with the subject Remove for any further assistant and suggestments mail to me.. rea@freehostedcgi.com thanks in advanced Rea Maor - Founder To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 5:56:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.sanda.gr.jp (ns.sanda.gr.jp [210.232.122.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C5B037B401 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 05:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ever.sanda.gr.jp (epoch [10.93.63.51]) by ns.sanda.gr.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id WAA24323 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:56:06 +0900 (JST) From: non@ever.sanda.gr.jp Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ever.sanda.gr.jp (8.8.8/3.3W9) with ESMTP id WAA21304 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:56:06 +0900 (JST) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount checking for read-only media In-Reply-To: <3A841662.B061A317@netzero.net> References: <3A837A0A.DAB3520A@columbus.rr.com> <20010209181342S.non@ever.sanda.gr.jp> <3A841662.B061A317@netzero.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94 on Emacs 19.28 / Mule 2.3 =?iso-2022-jp?B?KBskQkt2RSYyVhsoQik=?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010210225605B.non@ever.sanda.gr.jp> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:56:05 +0900 X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 18 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I wrote this in -current ML too, From: Kevin Brunelle Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 11:10:10 -0500 > > It's not system call but `od' driver does check if the medium is > > writable or not. It returns EACCESS when the mount option is -rw and > > the medium is read-only. `od' is drived from `da' so quick hack will > > do the trick. > > This is all for scsi drives. I may not know everything, but I know most > floppies aren't scsi! But, I am sure the problem exists for both. I know Are there any reason not to check the device is writable or not, if its opened with a write flag ? Just returning error when open() call prevents this problem. // Noriaki Mitsunaga // To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 6:25:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C24F737B401 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 06:25:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 10 Feb 2001 14:25:26 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:25:25 +0000 From: David Malone To: supenguin@bigfoot.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Handspring. Message-ID: <20010210142525.A83771@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <3A849074.76C43CEC@penix.org> <20010209164958.A22634@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> <3A84C0BC.666A97F5@columbus.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A84C0BC.666A97F5@columbus.rr.com>; from kdrobnac@columbus.rr.com on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 11:17:00PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 11:17:00PM -0500, Kenny Drobnack wrote: > claims that it works with Visors too. When I run coldsync, I get a > message "Please press the hotsync button" and when I hit the button I > get the message two more times, and then either it locked up or the > whole system locks up. I'm using coldsync with my visor and it works as long as you give it the correct arguments: coldsync -t usb -p /dev/ugen0 Otherwise, I think it does serial ioctls on a usb device and very weird stuff starts to happen. David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 7:13:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F5837B491 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 07:12:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f1AFAtg99308 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:10:55 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:10:55 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Updating mmap(2) [nik@freebsd.org: Re: pipe] Message-ID: <20010210151055.A99274@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There was no comment to these. Any objections if I commit my proposed changes? N ----- Forwarded message from Nik Clayton ----- Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:33:32 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "G. Adam Stanislav" , Stephen McKay , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pipe On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:50:55AM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > "G. Adam Stanislav" writes: > > On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 06:11:06PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > >The second and third sentences of the second paragraph (the one that > > >starts on line 23), as well as the entire eighth paragraph (that > > >starts on line 45), address the questions you asked in your previous > > >mail. > > I know it addresses it. Unfortunately, I didn't understand a word of it. > > I don't see how it could get any clearer. > > [...] If addr is zero, an address will be selected by > the system. The actual starting address of the region is returned. NAME mmap - map files or devices into memory [...] doesn't immediately shout "You can use this function to allocate memory as well". Perhaps mmap - allocate memory, or map files or devices into memory would be better? In addition, mmap isn't listed in the SEE ALSO for malloc(3), nor is it listed in memory(3). mmap() is listed in malloc(3), but only in an error message. N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 7:43:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D2DD37B65D; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 07:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f1AFgJh63543; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:42:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:42:19 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Wes Peters Cc: Nick Sayer , Greg Black , kris@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? In-Reply-To: <3A84D3F7.1CCE62A3@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Wes Peters wrote: > Add a list of executables and their MD5's to the kernel, to be loaded at > boot time via the loader. Modify the kernel loader to refuse to exec > any executable whose MD5 is known but doesn't match. Ditto for shared > libraries and ld.so. There you have it, a system that cannot be > upgraded except in single-user mode. Trouble is -- our shared library support is handled using memory mapping, and not a function of the kernel itself, so it's not an action that can be easily mediated by the kernel. You could restrict memory mapping to only files similarly approved, but that would break applications using mmap() on data files. MD5 execution restrictions also fail to prevent the exploitation if I/O based vulnerabilities, or the use of scripted languages. My feeling has always been that, without type-safe languages and a move to static linking, execution limitations will be likely to fail to provide a higher level of confidence in your system against a qualified attacker. If you really want this behavior, consider tying it to securelevels somehow, and adding a system flag that allows execution, and modifying exec() to mask the execute bits with the presence of that flag, permitting execution only if the flag is set, and limiting the setting of the flag to low securelevels. You get about the same level of confidence (fairly shaky but enough to confuse many attackers), and an easier implementation. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 8:53:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C34D37B491 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 08:53:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1AGrQV28655; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 08:53:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) To: John Wilson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: operator new with C++ and pthreads In-Reply-To: Message from John Wilson of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:21:54 PST." <22547061.981786114631.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 08:53:26 -0800 Message-ID: <28651.981824006@winston.osd.bsdi.com> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > but gcc (g++) doesn't seem to want to link them in, and uses its own > __builtin_new and __builtin_delete instead. You need to compile everything with -fno-builtin so that g++ won't try to use its own versions but yours instead. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 9:23:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.utep.edu (mail.cs.utep.edu [129.108.5.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F31337B491 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from gecko (gecko [129.108.5.51]) by cs.utep.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1AHN0Y13331; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:23:00 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:23:00 -0700 (MST) From: X-Sender: To: Mike Walker Cc: Subject: Re: FFS Driver for win2000? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I might try this. I would have to reformat a partition as nfs, right? JAn On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Mike Walker wrote: > Windoze 2000 is supposed to support NFS, so why not use that instead? > > >Does anybody know of any attempt to write a Fast Filesystem driver for > >windows 2000?. I have a machine that dual boots, and I can see the NTFS > >under FreeBSD no problem, but I would like to see my freebsd volume under > >windows, too. > > > >Is this a good project for me to do, or has someone done this already? > > > >JAn > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 9:25:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.utep.edu (mail.cs.utep.edu [129.108.5.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6717B37B491 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:25:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from gecko (gecko [129.108.5.51]) by cs.utep.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1AHPWU13350; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:25:33 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:25:33 -0700 (MST) From: X-Sender: To: Mike Walker Cc: Subject: Re: FFS Driver for win2000? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Disregard this. I am simply not awake.... JAN On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 janb@cs.utep.edu wrote: > I might try this. I would have to reformat a partition as nfs, right? > > JAn > > On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Mike Walker wrote: > > > Windoze 2000 is supposed to support NFS, so why not use that instead? > > > > >Does anybody know of any attempt to write a Fast Filesystem driver for > > >windows 2000?. I have a machine that dual boots, and I can see the NTFS > > >under FreeBSD no problem, but I would like to see my freebsd volume under > > >windows, too. > > > > > >Is this a good project for me to do, or has someone done this already? > > > > > >JAn > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 11:33: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.matriplex.com (ns1.matriplex.com [208.131.42.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495D737B65D; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:32:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.matriplex.com (mail.matriplex.com [208.131.42.9]) by mail.matriplex.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA82818; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:32:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:32:48 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Hodges To: Nik Clayton Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Updating mmap(2) [nik@freebsd.org: Re: pipe] In-Reply-To: <20010210151055.A99274@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, Nik Clayton wrote: > There was no comment to these. Any objections if I commit my proposed > changes? > mmap - map files or devices into memory > > [...] > > doesn't immediately shout "You can use this function to allocate memory > as well". > > Perhaps > > mmap - allocate memory, or map files or devices into memory > > would be better? You have my vote. That information would have saved me quite a few hours of angst a few years ago when I was looking for a way to share memory between processes. In fact, it will probably be an important tool for me for some time to come. In one case, using threads (instead of processes) with a decent amount of I/O increases load by about 20%. While you're at it :-) maybe you could add a few lines suggesting that with the MAP_SHARED flag, this is a useful method of sharing memory between processes. > In addition, mmap isn't listed in the SEE ALSO for malloc(3), nor is it > listed in memory(3). mmap() is listed in malloc(3), but only in an > error message. Sounds good to me. -Richard ------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | Matriplex, inc. | 769 Basque Way rh@matriplex.com | Carson City, NV 89706 775-886-6477 | www.matriplex.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 12:24:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2AC937B401; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:23:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f1AKNMO27394; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:23:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:23:22 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon <dillon@earth.backplane.com> Message-Id: <200102102023.f1AKNMO27394@earth.backplane.com> To: Richard Hodges <rh@matriplex.com> Cc: Nik Clayton <nik@FreeBSD.ORG>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Updating mmap(2) [nik@freebsd.org: Re: pipe] References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10102101115450.79449-100000@mail.matriplex.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> mmap - allocate memory, or map files or devices into memory :> :> would be better? : :You have my vote. That information would have saved me quite a few :hours of angst a few years ago when I was looking for a way to share :memory between processes. In fact, it will probably be an important :tool for me for some time to come. In one case, using threads (instead :of processes) with a decent amount of I/O increases load by about 20%. : :While you're at it :-) maybe you could add a few lines suggesting that :with the MAP_SHARED flag, this is a useful method of sharing memory :between processes. : :> In addition, mmap isn't listed in the SEE ALSO for malloc(3), nor is it :> listed in memory(3). mmap() is listed in malloc(3), but only in an :> error message. : :Sounds good to me. : :-Richard : :------------------------------------------- : Richard Hodges | Matriplex, inc. Not only that, but you can mmap() anonymous memory MAP_SHARED as well, which means the memory is shared across fork(). Theoretically it is possible to share a memory region across an exec*() as well, but I've never been able to get that to work. The MAP_NOSYNC section of the manual page has a very good description of how to use mmap() for IPC, but the MAP_SHARED section could use some more meat. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 12:47: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.matriplex.com (ns1.matriplex.com [208.131.42.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 890DD37B401; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.matriplex.com (mail.matriplex.com [208.131.42.9]) by mail.matriplex.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA82929; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:46:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:46:39 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Hodges <rh@matriplex.com> To: Matt Dillon <dillon@earth.backplane.com> Cc: Nik Clayton <nik@FreeBSD.ORG>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Updating mmap(2) [nik@freebsd.org: Re: pipe] In-Reply-To: <200102102023.f1AKNMO27394@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10102101235030.79449-100000@mail.matriplex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: NC: > :> mmap - allocate memory, or map files or devices into memory > :> > :> would be better? > : RH: > :While you're at it :-) maybe you could add a few lines suggesting that > :with the MAP_SHARED flag, this is a useful method of sharing memory > :between processes. > Not only that, but you can mmap() anonymous memory MAP_SHARED as well, > which means the memory is shared across fork(). Theoretically it is > possible to share a memory region across an exec*() as well, but I've > never been able to get that to work. Ah, yes. I forgot to mention the MAP_ANON flag... My typical usage is often something like: void *retval; int memsize; [...] retval = mmap(NULL, memsize, PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE, MAP_ANON | MAP_SHARED, -1, 0); if(retval == MAP_FAILED) FAIL else FORK Maybe I'm suffering a temporary lapse of clue, but is there some place where supplemental info (like code snippets) is kept? This kind of info might be handy to someone seeing the man page for the first time, but it doesn't seem quite right to put code samples in the man pages themselves. -Richard ------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | Matriplex, inc. <title> | 769 Basque Way rh@matriplex.com | Carson City, NV 89706 775-886-6477 | www.matriplex.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 12:54:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950F937B401; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:54:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f1AKra127602; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:53:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:53:36 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon <dillon@earth.backplane.com> Message-Id: <200102102053.f1AKra127602@earth.backplane.com> To: Richard Hodges <rh@matriplex.com> Cc: Nik Clayton <nik@FreeBSD.ORG>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Updating mmap(2) [nik@freebsd.org: Re: pipe] References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10102101235030.79449-100000@mail.matriplex.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Maybe I'm suffering a temporary lapse of clue, but is there some :place where supplemental info (like code snippets) is kept? This :kind of info might be handy to someone seeing the man page for the :first time, but it doesn't seem quite right to put code samples :in the man pages themselves. : :-Richard /usr/share/examples/... 'maybe'. But, personally, I would just embed it in the man page or create another man page called mmap-examples. Most people don't even realize that /usr/share/examples exists and so don't look there. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 13:55:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E53F37B401 for <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:55:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from pugsly.excite.com ([199.172.148.160]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010210215530.SKBI12032.fortune.excite.com@pugsly.excite.com>; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:55:30 -0800 Message-ID: <28330970.981842130266.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:55:29 -0800 (PST) From: John Wilson <john_wilson100@excite.com> To: Jordan Hubbard <jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com> Subject: Re: operator new with C++ and pthreads Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 192.116.157.236 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thanks for your reply, Jordan. -fno-builtin doesn't seem to work. Consider the following simple scenario: -------- my_new.h -------- #include <sys/types.h> inline void *operator new(size_t size); --------- my_new.cc --------- #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include "my_new.h" inline void *operator new(size_t size) { printf("my new was called with size = %u\n", size); return malloc(size); } ----------- new_test.cc ----------- #include "my_new.h" class Foo { int a, b; }; int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { Foo *p; p = new Foo; return 0; } Compile it as follows: g++ -fno-builtin -c -o my_new.o my_new.cc g++ -fno-builtin -c -o new_test.o new_test.cc g++ -fno-builtin -o new_test new_test.o my_new.o new_test doesn't print anything (which it should, if it were linked with my_new.o) John Wilson On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 08:53:26 -0800, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > but gcc (g++) doesn't seem to want to link them in, and uses its own > > __builtin_new and __builtin_delete instead. > > You need to compile everything with -fno-builtin so that g++ won't > try to use its own versions but yours instead. > > - Jordan _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 14:21:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from homer.softweyr.com (bsdconspiracy.net [208.187.122.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A10FE37B401; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=softweyr.com ident=Fools trust ident!) by homer.softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RiXx-0000DM-00; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:31:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3A85C130.1ED81BB5@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:31:12 -0700 From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com> Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson <rwatson@freebsd.org> Cc: Nick Sayer <nsayer@quack.kfu.com>, Greg Black <gjb@gbch.net>, kris@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/security: add md5 to suid change notification? References: <Pine.NEB.3.96L.1010210103811.30518X-100000@fledge.watson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Robert Watson wrote: > > On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Wes Peters wrote: > > > Add a list of executables and their MD5's to the kernel, to be loaded at > > boot time via the loader. Modify the kernel loader to refuse to exec > > any executable whose MD5 is known but doesn't match. Ditto for shared > > libraries and ld.so. There you have it, a system that cannot be > > upgraded except in single-user mode. > > Trouble is -- our shared library support is handled using memory mapping, > and not a function of the kernel itself, so it's not an action that can be > easily mediated by the kernel. The actual loading and mapping of files is performed by ld.so, right? This actually makes it easier, you can simply add the signature/cksum hacks into ld.so. > You could restrict memory mapping to only > files similarly approved, but that would break applications using mmap() > on data files. Ick. No. > MD5 execution restrictions also fail to prevent the > exploitation if I/O based vulnerabilities, or the use of scripted > languages. Right, but there are systems that don't allow scripted languages. Or at least carefully control it. They are a separate issue, that can be dealt with similarly, except it's hard to figure out where you stash the signature in a script program without affecting the signature of the script itself. > My feeling has always been that, without type-safe languages > and a move to static linking, execution limitations will be likely to fail > to provide a higher level of confidence in your system against a qualified > attacker. Yeah, I've toyed with the idea a few times before, but it makes the system very cumbersome to use. It might be useful in some highly controlled situations, where upgrades are done by exchanging hardware. > If you really want this behavior, consider tying it to securelevels > somehow, and adding a system flag that allows execution, and modifying > exec() to mask the execute bits with the presence of that flag, permitting > execution only if the flag is set, and limiting the setting of the flag to > low securelevels. You get about the same level of confidence (fairly > shaky but enough to confuse many attackers), and an easier implementation. And a lot less signature data floating about the system, waiting for a flipped bit. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 14:36:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aaz.links.ru (aaz.links.ru [193.125.152.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3437637B69C for <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:36:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from babolo@localhost) by aaz.links.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA14393; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:36:10 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <200102102236.BAA14393@aaz.links.ru> Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) In-Reply-To: <200102100231.f1A2Vgd20496@earth.backplane.com> from "Matt Dillon" at "Feb 9, 1 06:31:42 pm" To: dillon@earth.backplane.com (Matt Dillon) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:36:09 +0300 (MSK) Cc: gjb@gbch.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" <babolo@links.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon writes: > :Matt Dillon wrote: > :> Yes. In general softupdates will make the entire filesystem safer. > :Does it make sense to use softupdates on file systems like / and > :/usr which have little file creation/removal? > I have had softupdates turned on for all of my mount points for over > a year. > > For /, the only issue is that if you have too small a root parition a > 'make installworld' may run the filesystem out of space faster then > softupdates can free the blocks. My root partition is always 128M > for that reason (and also so I can throw a few kernel.debug images in > there). > > My recommendation is to turn softupdates on for everything you have, > and for us to make it a newfs default as well. At least in -stable. You use softupdates turned on for all of your ufs. Understand. What is the reason to use softupdates for file system with only atime updates on it? -- @BABOLO http://links.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 14:45:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7383737B65D for <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:45:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f1AMj1328151; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:45:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:45:01 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon <dillon@earth.backplane.com> Message-Id: <200102102245.f1AMj1328151@earth.backplane.com> To: "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" <babolo@links.ru> Cc: gjb@gbch.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates and qmail (RE: qmail IO problems) References: <200102102236.BAA14393@aaz.links.ru> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> My recommendation is to turn softupdates on for everything you have, :> and for us to make it a newfs default as well. At least in -stable. :You use softupdates turned on for all of your ufs. :Understand. :What is the reason to use softupdates for file system :with only atime updates on it? : :-- :@BABOLO http://links.ru/ Unless you are doing a read-only mount, there are still going to be cases where having softupdates turned on can be advantageous. For example, installworld will go a lot faster. I also consider softupdates a whole lot safer, even if all you are doing is editing an occassional file. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 15:51:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D5A337B401; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmz@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f1ANpZC97753; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:51:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmz@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:51:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200102102351.f1ANpZC97753@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: jmz set sender to jmz@FreeBSD.org using -f From: Jean-Marc Zucconi <jmz@FreeBSD.org> To: John Wilson <john_wilson100@excite.com> Cc: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: operator new with C++ and pthreads In-Reply-To: <28330970.981842130266.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> References: <28330970.981842130266.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> X-Mailer: Emacs 20.7.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> John Wilson writes: > --------- > my_new.cc > --------- > #include <stdio.h> > #include <stdlib.h> > #include "my_new.h" > inline void *operator new(size_t size) > { > printf("my new was called with size = %u\n", size); > return malloc(size); > } This is stupid. Inline functions are not compiled. You must move this code in your .h file. Jean-Marc -- Jean-Marc Zucconi -- PGP Key: finger jmz@FreeBSD.org [KeyID: 400B38E9] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 16: 7:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FBF137B67D for <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1B07BW17587; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:07:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200102110007.f1B07BW17587@harmony.village.org> To: John Wilson <john_wilson100@excite.com> Subject: Re: operator new with C++ and pthreads Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:21:54 PST." <22547061.981786114631.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> References: <22547061.981786114631.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:07:11 -0700 From: Warner Losh <imp@harmony.village.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <22547061.981786114631.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> John Wilson writes: : but gcc (g++) doesn't seem to want to link them in, and uses its own : __builtin_new and __builtin_delete instead. we do this all the time. g++ foo.o -o foo -pthreads -static works great. You must use g++ and not gcc to like, or you lose. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 16: 9:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 281CA37B503 for <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:09:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1B098W17620; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:09:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200102110009.f1B098W17620@harmony.village.org> To: John Wilson <john_wilson100@excite.com> Subject: Re: operator new with C++ and pthreads Cc: Jordan Hubbard <jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:55:29 PST." <28330970.981842130266.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> References: <28330970.981842130266.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:09:08 -0700 From: Warner Losh <imp@harmony.village.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <28330970.981842130266.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> John Wilson writes: : inline void *operator new(size_t size) This causes no code to be generated. Remove inline. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 17:11:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C3137B67D; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pugsly.excite.com ([199.172.148.160]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010211011136.ITSA3417.kuku.excite.com@pugsly.excite.com>; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:11:36 -0800 Message-ID: <22824929.981853896386.JavaMail.imail@pugsly.excite.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:11:35 -0800 (PST) From: John Wilson <john_wilson100@excite.com> To: Jean-Marc Zucconi <jmz@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: operator new with C++ and pthreads Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 192.116.157.236 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You are absolutely right, that `inline' shouldn't have been there. My bad. It works now - thanks! John On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:51:35 -0800 (PST), Jean-Marc Zucconi wrote: > >>>>> John Wilson writes: > > > --------- > > my_new.cc > > --------- > > > #include <stdio.h> > > #include <stdlib.h> > > > #include "my_new.h" > > > inline void *operator new(size_t size) > > { > > printf("my new was called with size = %u\n", size); > > return malloc(size); > > } > > > This is stupid. Inline functions are not compiled. You must move this > code in your .h file. > > Jean-Marc > > -- > Jean-Marc Zucconi -- PGP Key: finger jmz@FreeBSD.org [KeyID: 400B38E9] _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 23:32:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9415637B401 for <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:32:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 90505 invoked by uid 1001); 11 Feb 2001 17:31:43 +1000 X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.12 07-Feb-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/ X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/img/gjb-auug048.gif X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5A91 6942 8CEA 9DAB B95B C249 1CE1 493B 2B5A CE30 X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-pgpkey.asc Message-Id: <nospam-3a863fdf721615e@maxim.gbch.net> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:31:43 +1000 From: Greg Black <gjb@gbch.net> To: Matt Dillon <dillon@earth.backplane.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: soft updates performance References: <200102102245.f1AMj1328151@earth.backplane.com> In-reply-to: <200102102245.f1AMj1328151@earth.backplane.com> of Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:45:01 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > Unless you are doing a read-only mount, there are still going to be > cases where having softupdates turned on can be advantageous. For > example, installworld will go a lot faster. I also consider softupdates > a whole lot safer, even if all you are doing is editing an occassional > file. OK, I'm sold on the general idea of using soft updates; but what sort of performance improvements should I expect to see? I do a kernel compile on a freshly-rebooted box with an without softupdates; without, it took 20m45s and with soft updates it still took 20m10s --- this is less than 3% faster, which is close to statistically insignificant. Is this expected, or is there some other factor I should look at? Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 10 23:47:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E996337B401 for <freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:47:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f1B7iwS30465; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:44:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:44:58 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Dillon <dillon@earth.backplane.com> Message-Id: <200102110744.f1B7iwS30465@earth.backplane.com> To: Greg Black <gjb@gbch.net> Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: soft updates performance References: <200102102245.f1AMj1328151@earth.backplane.com> <nospam-3a863fdf721615e@maxim.gbch.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :OK, I'm sold on the general idea of using soft updates; but what :sort of performance improvements should I expect to see? : :I do a kernel compile on a freshly-rebooted box with an without :softupdates; without, it took 20m45s and with soft updates it :still took 20m10s --- this is less than 3% faster, which is :close to statistically insignificant. Is this expected, or is :there some other factor I should look at? : :Greg A kernel compile, like a buildworld, is more a cpu-intensive operation then a disk-intensive operation, so I wouldn't expect a big improvement. Softupdates wins big on anything that does a lot of directory manipulation. For example, extracting a tar archive, rm -rf, news systems, mail systems (to a lesser degree since they fsync() a lot anyway), and general workloads. There is no real downside, so there really isn't any reason to *not* use softupdates. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message