From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 10:52:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (cpe-66-1-147-119.ca.sprintbbd.net [66.1.147.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C9D37B42C for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 10:52:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from arun@sharmas.dhs.org) Received: from OMNI (unknown [192.168.1.100]) by sharmas.dhs.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 87E395DF2F for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 10:48:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Arun Sharma" To: "Freebsd Hackers" Subject: libc threadsafe ? Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 10:52:21 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I see some changes to -current as of Jan 2001, that attempt to make libc threadsafe without -pthread and _THREAD_SAFE. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Daniel+Eischen&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&scoring=d&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=20& as_maxm=1&as_maxy=2001&rnum=4&ic=1&selm=94amg1%242fnu%241%40FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw I'm attempting to port IBM's NGPT to freebsd and most of the things seem to be working fine. The following is the C file needed to make it work, apart from some minor work arounds for Makefiles. http://sharmas.dhs.org/~adsharma/pth_native_freebsd.c I'm trying to hunt down a stack corruption that I'm seeing after a sigsetjmp and siglongjmp. It could be due to a bug in NGPT or it could be due to the fact that I'm linking -lc and not -lc_r and -lc is not completely thread safe. The stack in question was malloc'ed and passed as an argument to rfork_thread. My question is, do I need to do anything else (apart from incrementing __isthreaded and providing strong references to locking routines) to get -lc to work in a MT environment ? -Arun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 11: 2:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [62.4.20.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4019137B422 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 11:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@tara.freenix.org) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id B26521C9; Sun, 20 May 2001 20:02:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 20:02:28 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ppp problems on 4.3-RELEASE and PPPoE Message-ID: <20010520200228.A22664@tara.freenix.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <3B028AE9.F1963C00@thehousleys.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B028AE9.F1963C00@thehousleys.net>; from jim@thehousleys.net on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 10:12:57AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT K6-3D/266 & 2x PPro/200 SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to James Housley: > and I am not in Canada. I am using natd and ipfw for NAT and the > firewall. The link has a static IP if it matters. Below I am attaching > ppp.conf. I have watched some of the data with tcpdump on both tun0 and I'm also using ppp + ng_pppoe on a 4.3-STABLE system. My MTU is 1492. Configuration below. I'm experiencing lockups from ppp (average is one time a day). ppp stops recieving anything from the modem (Alcatel Speed Touch Home with ethernet). Any idea where it could come from? -=-=- default: set device /dev/cuaa0 set speed 115200 disable lqr deny lqr set redial 15 0 set reconnect 15 10000 set accmap 0 set server +3000 ******** adsl: set device PPPoE:ed0: set authname ********* set authkey ********* set timeout 0 set mtu 1492 set mru 1492 set speed sync disable acfcomp protocomp deny acfcomp set log Phase Chat LQM hdlc LCP IPCP CCP tun set ifaddr 0/0 0/0 add 0 0 HISADDR dial -=-=- Nothing interesting from the ppp log :-( -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 12:53: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D3237B422 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 12:52:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org) Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (cpe-66-1-147-119.ca.sprintbbd.net [66.1.147.119]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20281 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 12:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4KJk2N10895 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 20 May 2001 12:46:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by astra.mirabella.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4KJgCb10756 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 20 May 2001 12:42:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 12:42:12 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: _SC_NPROCESSORS_CONF Message-ID: <20010520124211.A10735@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Single UNIX spec doesn't include the above sysconf(3) argument, but many UNIX variants do. What's the BSD way of doing this ? -Arun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 13:42:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (cpe-66-1-147-119.ca.sprintbbd.net [66.1.147.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B26BC37B422 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 13:42:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org) Received: by sharmas.dhs.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id C34135E100; Sun, 20 May 2001 13:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 13:38:43 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Bill Abt Cc: pthreads-devel@dwoss.lotus.com, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: [pthreads-devel] Bug in pth_native.c ? + FreeBSD port Message-ID: <20010520133843.A27038@sharmas.dhs.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: ; from babt@us.ibm.com on Sun, May 20, 2001 at 08:05:19AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 08:05:19AM -0400, Bill Abt wrote: > Yeah, your right about slot. It should be allocated off the heap... Hmm, > that would probably explain a few inconsistencies we've seen as well. > Thanks!!!! > > As far as incorporating your changes into the release, sure!!! Another > platform/os would be great. > Ok, the patch is here: http://sharmas.dhs.org/~adsharma/ngpt-freebsd.patch.txt Rough edges: (a) @NATIVE@ needs to be substituted with pth_native.c or pth_native_freebsd.c depending on the platform. I'm not too good at autoconf. (b) The changes to pth_lib.c can probably be ignored. They're there to fix compilation errors on FreeBSD and it's not clear to me what the correct solution is. (c) This is a mysterious bug that I'm not able to solve even after fighting with it for a couple of days: - void (* volatile mctx_starting_func)(void); + static void (* volatile mctx_starting_func)(void); This variable gets corrupted on FreeBSD after a context switch. I suspect that this could be a compiler issue, but haven't been able to pin point the problem. I'm using: $ gcc -v Using builtin specs. gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release) Datapoints: 1. Increasing the stack size, didn't help. It also makes it unlikely that someone is accidentally stepping on the malloc'ed stack. 2. The problem disappeared after I put some debug statements in the surrounding code. This might have tickled the compiler in such a way that the problem got masked. Making the variable static makes the problem go away. This shouldn't be a problem, since all threads get bootstrapped the same way ? -Arun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 13:57:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C5437B424 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 13:57:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25726; Sun, 20 May 2001 16:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.3/8.9.1) id f4KKvIn59190; Sun, 20 May 2001 16:57:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15112.12205.953218.814741@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 16:57:17 -0400 (EDT) To: Arun Sharma Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: _SC_NPROCESSORS_CONF In-Reply-To: <20010520124211.A10735@sharmas.dhs.org> References: <20010520124211.A10735@sharmas.dhs.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Arun Sharma writes: > Single UNIX spec doesn't include the above sysconf(3) argument, but > many UNIX variants do. What's the BSD way of doing this ? How about the hw.ncpu sysctl? Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin Duke University Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu Department of Computer Science Phone: (919) 660-6590 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 14: 1:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (cpe-66-1-147-119.ca.sprintbbd.net [66.1.147.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4801937B424 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 14:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org) Received: by sharmas.dhs.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 893F85E101; Sun, 20 May 2001 13:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 13:56:55 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: _SC_NPROCESSORS_CONF Message-ID: <20010520135655.A27231@sharmas.dhs.org> References: <20010520124211.A10735@sharmas.dhs.org> <15112.12205.953218.814741@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <15112.12205.953218.814741@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu>; from gallatin@cs.duke.edu on Sun, May 20, 2001 at 04:57:17PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 04:57:17PM -0400, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > Arun Sharma writes: > > Single UNIX spec doesn't include the above sysconf(3) argument, but > > many UNIX variants do. What's the BSD way of doing this ? > > How about the hw.ncpu sysctl? Any objections to a patch implementing sysconf(_SC_NPROCESSORS_CONF) in terms of hw.ncpu ? -Arun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 15: 7:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ABAB37B42C; Sun, 20 May 2001 15:07:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@zer0.org) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 15283239A4B; Sun, 20 May 2001 15:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 15:07:22 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: yokota@freebsd.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: syscons problem Message-ID: <20010520150721.D61994@klapaucius.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bAmEntskrkuBymla" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Organization: Zer0 X-Purpose: For great justice! Mail-Copies-To: poster Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --bAmEntskrkuBymla Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yokota-san, I am experiencing a problem with syscons and init when I have a=20 certain line in my kernel configuration file, and am hoping that you can fix the bug. My system is a recent 4-STABLE, although the problem also showed up in an April 24 4-STABLE. I do not=20 have a -CURRENT box. =20 FreeBSD trurl.zer0.org 4.3-STABLE FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE #6: Wed May 16 17:44:5= 8 PDT 2001 gsutter@trurl.zer0.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GEN i386 Here is a diff between a working kernel configuration file (GEN) and a non-working one (GEN.not): trurl gsutter /sys/i386/conf $diff -u -0 GEN.not GEN --- GEN.not Wed May 16 17:12:42 2001 +++ GEN Wed May 16 17:49:06 2001 @@ -61 +61 @@ -options SC_HISTORY_SIZE=3D8000 +#options SC_HISTORY_SIZE=3D8000 I have not tested with other SC_HISTORY_SIZE values. When I boot with a kernel compiled with the SC_HISTORY_SIZE=3D8000 option, I observe the following: 1. No gettys are spawned. If I ssh in, I can manually start=20 gettys.=20 2. Processes remain in zombie state after exiting. This occurs whether they exit normally, or are killed with any signal. These two symptoms lead me to believe that init(8) is being adversely affected by the syscons history size option. =20 If I can be of assistance in tracking down this problem, please let me know. =20 Regards, Greg --=20 Gregory S. Sutter Frotz! mailto:gsutter@zer0.org=20 http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/=20 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD --bAmEntskrkuBymla Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: '' iD8DBQE7CEAZIBUx1YRd/t0RAr5vAJ9v2WnXLBjvGL42z0s0par8WlR5oACeO018 Gs+JgpjnwqRKd+u3CzgJlLU= =g6Yz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bAmEntskrkuBymla-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 16:26:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bazooka.unixfreak.org (bazooka.unixfreak.org [63.198.170.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00FD337B42C for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 16:26:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dima@unixfreak.org) Received: from spike.unixfreak.org (spike [63.198.170.139]) by bazooka.unixfreak.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7593E0B for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 16:26:50 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: De-setgid-ifying ipcs(1) In-Reply-To: <20010518014032.N7118@superconductor.rush.net>; from bright@rush.net on "Fri, 18 May 2001 01:40:33 -0400" Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 16:26:50 -0700 From: Dima Dorfman Message-Id: <20010520232650.AE7593E0B@bazooka.unixfreak.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein writes: > Probably not the commentary you're looking for, however the > getopt parsing shouldn't be done like this: Some comments is usually better than no comments: to have noticed this problem, you had to have at least skimmed through the other (kernel) parts, so I know I didn't do anything *too* evil :-). > > - while ((i = getopt(argc, argv, "MmQqSsabC:cN:optT")) != -1) > > + use_sysctl = 1; > > + while ((i = getopt(argc, argv, "MmQqSsabC:cN:optTy")) != -1) > > switch (i) { > > case 'M': > > display = SHMTOTAL; > > @@ -184,39 +187,45 @@ > > case 't': > > option |= TIME; > > break; > > + case 'y': > > + use_sysctl = !use_sysctl; > > + break; > > default: > > usage(); > > } > > Multiple -y options will invert the sense of the flag right? > > Might as well inialize it to 1 in the DATA segment and replace > !use_sysctl with just 0. Point taken. I've done as you suggested in the patch I just posted to -audit for review. Thanks again, Dima Dorfman dima@unixfreak.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 16:54:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gate.lustig.com (lustig.ne.mediaone.net [24.91.125.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 71CD737B42C for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 16:54:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from barry@lustig.com) Received: (qmail 89530 invoked from network); 20 May 2001 23:53:29 -0000 Received: from gate.lustig.com (HELO lustig.com) (barry@205.246.2.242) by gate.lustig.com with SMTP; 20 May 2001 23:53:29 -0000 Message-ID: <3B0858F9.1E483EEE@lustig.com> Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 19:53:29 -0400 From: Barry Lustig Organization: Barry Lustig & Associates, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Boot time memory issue Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was curious whether the memory limitation on the Sony VAIO Z505 machines was an actual hardware limitation or a marketing issue. I just tried adding a 256MB module to my machine. The BIOS seemed to mostly recognize it. It did see 320MB of RAM, but had problems when testing all of it. Current (from a couple of weeks ago) boots, but gives me: Too many holes in the physical address space, giving up and comes up showing 64MB of RAM. Is this something that can be worked around, or have I run up against an actual hardware limit on the machine? barry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 17:27:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bazooka.unixfreak.org (bazooka.unixfreak.org [63.198.170.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62CEC37B422 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 17:27:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dima@unixfreak.org) Received: from spike.unixfreak.org (spike [63.198.170.139]) by bazooka.unixfreak.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F24423E0B for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 17:27:37 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: background_fsck rc.conf option Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 17:27:37 -0700 From: Dima Dorfman Message-Id: <20010521002738.F24423E0B@bazooka.unixfreak.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anybody object to adding a background_fsck rc.conf option to facilitate easy switching of background fsck on or off? Robert Watson suggested this on cvs-all some time ago, but the discussion drifted off. Attached is a very short patch to implement it; it basically makes rev. 1.263 of src/etc/rc conditional on ${background_fsck}. The patch leaves background fsck on by default, but now that can be easily changed; I'm sure there will be a long thread about what the default should be later. Comments? Suggestions? Thanks, Dima Dorfman dima@unixfreak.org Index: etc/rc =================================================================== RCS file: /stl/src/FreeBSD/src/etc/rc,v retrieving revision 1.264 diff -u -r1.264 rc --- etc/rc 2001/05/13 20:43:30 1.264 +++ etc/rc 2001/05/21 00:19:25 @@ -184,9 +184,14 @@ case ${bootmode} in autoboot) echo 'Automatic boot in progress...' -# To restore old fsck behavior use: -# fsck -p - fsck -F -p + case ${background_fsck} in + [Yy][Ee][Ss]) + fsck -F -p + ;; + *) + fsck -p + ;; + esac case $? in 0) ;; @@ -810,9 +815,13 @@ ;; esac -# Start background fsck checks -echo 'Starting background filesystem checks' -nice -4 fsck -B -p 2>&1 | logger -p daemon.notice & +# Start background fsck checks if necessary +case ${background_fsck} in +[Yy][Ee][Ss]) + echo 'Starting background filesystem checks' + nice -4 fsck -B -p 2>&1 | logger -p daemon.notice & + ;; +esac echo '' Index: etc/defaults/rc.conf =================================================================== RCS file: /stl/src/FreeBSD/src/etc/defaults/rc.conf,v retrieving revision 1.105 diff -u -r1.105 rc.conf --- etc/defaults/rc.conf 2001/05/14 20:51:03 1.105 +++ etc/defaults/rc.conf 2001/05/21 00:19:25 @@ -33,6 +33,7 @@ local_startup="/usr/local/etc/rc.d /usr/X11R6/etc/rc.d" # startup script dirs. rc_conf_files="/etc/rc.conf /etc/rc.conf.local" fsck_y_enable="NO" # Set to YES to do fsck -y if the initial preen fails. +background_fsck="YES" # Attempt to run fsck in the background where possible. ############################################################## ### Network configuration sub-section ###################### Index: share/man/man5/rc.conf.5 =================================================================== RCS file: /stl/src/FreeBSD/src/share/man/man5/rc.conf.5,v retrieving revision 1.104 diff -u -r1.104 rc.conf.5 --- share/man/man5/rc.conf.5 2001/05/15 15:52:55 1.104 +++ share/man/man5/rc.conf.5 2001/05/21 00:19:25 @@ -625,6 +625,13 @@ .Xr fsck 8 will be run with the -y flag if the initial preen of the filesystems fails. +.It Va background_fsck +.Pq Vt bool +if set to +.Ar YES , +the system will attempt to run +.Xr fsck 8 +in the background where possible. .It Va syslogd_enable .Pq Vt bool If set to To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 17:36:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 978DB37B424 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 17:36:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4L0aC801084; Sun, 20 May 2001 17:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: dima@unixfreak.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: background_fsck rc.conf option In-Reply-To: <20010521002738.F24423E0B@bazooka.unixfreak.org> References: <20010521002738.F24423E0B@bazooka.unixfreak.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010520173612Y.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 17:36:12 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Looks good! Excellent! Go for it! :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 18: 7:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 885) id 32F1737B424; Sun, 20 May 2001 18:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 18:07:35 -0700 From: Eric Melville To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: upgrading packages Message-ID: <20010520180735.C81453@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Currently, upgrading packages is more painful than it should be. However, it would not take much work to make things significantly more friendly - 1. pkg_add - when a package is installed, it should check for an older version of itself, and if the new version provides everything from the old one, update the associated +REQUIRED_BY files 2. pkg_delete - when a package is deleted, it should check for a newer version of itself, and files that overlap between both versions should not be deleted Careful users can avoid the problems that these two changes fix, but there's really no reason to not make life simple for everyone. Comments? Takers? I'm a bit busy due to the finals that I've got looming on the horizon, but I'll eventually get to it if no one else does. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 18:10:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E22037B422; Sun, 20 May 2001 18:10:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4L1ArH03338; Sun, 20 May 2001 20:10:53 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 20:10:53 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Gregory Sutter Cc: yokota@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: syscons problem Message-ID: <20010520201053.A16627@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20010520150721.D61994@klapaucius.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.17i In-Reply-To: <20010520150721.D61994@klapaucius.zer0.org>; from "Gregory Sutter" on Sun May 20 15:07:22 GMT 2001 X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (May 20), Gregory Sutter said: > I am experiencing a problem with syscons and init when I have a > certain line in my kernel configuration file, and am hoping that you > can fix the bug. My system is a recent 4-STABLE, although the > problem also showed up in an April 24 4-STABLE. I do not have a > -CURRENT box. > > FreeBSD trurl.zer0.org 4.3-STABLE FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE #6: Wed May 16 17:44:58 PDT 2001 gsutter@trurl.zer0.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GEN i386 > > Here is a diff between a working kernel configuration file (GEN) and > a non-working one (GEN.not): > > trurl gsutter /sys/i386/conf $diff -u -0 GEN.not GEN > --- GEN.not Wed May 16 17:12:42 2001 > +++ GEN Wed May 16 17:49:06 2001 > @@ -61 +61 @@ > -options SC_HISTORY_SIZE=8000 > +#options SC_HISTORY_SIZE=8000 That's 8000 lines; 320 25-line screens, totaling 640000 bytes. Do you rally want a history that large? > I have not tested with other SC_HISTORY_SIZE values. > > When I boot with a kernel compiled with the SC_HISTORY_SIZE=8000 > option, I observe the following: > > 1. No gettys are spawned. If I ssh in, I can manually start > gettys. Does anything get logged in /var/log ? If init can't spawn a getty, it usually logs it. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 19: 6:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from green.bikeshed.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D3037B443 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 19:06:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@green.bikeshed.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by green.bikeshed.org (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f4L25x102099 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 22:05:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from green@green.bikeshed.org) Message-Id: <200105210205.f4L25x102099@green.bikeshed.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) From: "Brian F. Feldman" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:05:59 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There's a certain issue that when several processes sharing a vmspace are exiting at the same time, there is a race condition such that the shared memory is going to be lost because the check for vm->vm_refcnt being the check for the last decrement happening before the last decrement is actually performed, allowing for the possibility of Giant being dropped (duh, during flushing of dirty pages), and all the trouble that entails... Anyway, here's what I currently have which seems to fix it. Anyone want to comment on its correctness? The newly introduced vm_freer should be valid to test against: it's only necessary to differentiate between multiple holders of the same vmspace, so there shouldn't be any problem with recycled proc pointers or anything. Index: kern/kern_exit.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/kern/kern_exit.c,v retrieving revision 1.123 diff -u -r1.123 kern_exit.c --- kern/kern_exit.c 2001/03/28 11:52:53 1.123 +++ kern/kern_exit.c 2001/04/29 23:47:36 @@ -222,13 +222,14 @@ * Can't free the entire vmspace as the kernel stack * may be mapped within that space also. */ - if (vm->vm_refcnt == 1) { + if (--vm->vm_refcnt == 0) { if (vm->vm_shm) shmexit(p); pmap_remove_pages(vmspace_pmap(vm), VM_MIN_ADDRESS, VM_MAXUSER_ADDRESS); (void) vm_map_remove(&vm->vm_map, VM_MIN_ADDRESS, VM_MAXUSER_ADDRESS); + vm->vm_freer = curproc; } PROC_LOCK(p); @@ -379,7 +380,7 @@ /* * Finally, call machine-dependent code to release the remaining * resources including address space, the kernel stack and pcb. - * The address space is released by "vmspace_free(p->p_vmspace)"; + * The address space is released by "vmspace_exitfree(p)"; * This is machine-dependent, as we may have to change stacks * or ensure that the current one isn't reallocated before we * finish. cpu_exit will end with a call to cpu_switch(), finishing Index: vm/vm_map.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_map.c,v retrieving revision 1.198 diff -u -r1.198 vm_map.c --- vm/vm_map.c 2001/04/12 21:50:03 1.198 +++ vm/vm_map.c 2001/04/29 23:44:09 @@ -178,6 +178,7 @@ vm->vm_map.pmap = vmspace_pmap(vm); /* XXX */ vm->vm_refcnt = 1; vm->vm_shm = NULL; + vm->vm_freer = NULL; return (vm); } @@ -194,6 +195,27 @@ vm_object_init2(); } +static __inline void +vmspace_dofree(vm) + struct vmspace *vm; +{ + + /* + * Lock the map, to wait out all other references to it. + * Delete all of the mappings and pages they hold, then call + * the pmap module to reclaim anything left. + */ + vm_map_lock(&vm->vm_map); + (void) vm_map_delete(&vm->vm_map, vm->vm_map.min_offset, + vm->vm_map.max_offset); + vm_map_unlock(&vm->vm_map); + + pmap_release(vmspace_pmap(vm)); + vm_map_destroy(&vm->vm_map); + zfree(vmspace_zone, vm); +} + + void vmspace_free(vm) struct vmspace *vm; @@ -202,22 +224,17 @@ if (vm->vm_refcnt == 0) panic("vmspace_free: attempt to free already freed vmspace"); - if (--vm->vm_refcnt == 0) { + if (--vm->vm_refcnt == 0) + vmspace_dofree(vm); +} - /* - * Lock the map, to wait out all other references to it. - * Delete all of the mappings and pages they hold, then call - * the pmap module to reclaim anything left. - */ - vm_map_lock(&vm->vm_map); - (void) vm_map_delete(&vm->vm_map, vm->vm_map.min_offset, - vm->vm_map.max_offset); - vm_map_unlock(&vm->vm_map); +void +vmspace_exitfree(p) + struct proc *p; +{ - pmap_release(vmspace_pmap(vm)); - vm_map_destroy(&vm->vm_map); - zfree(vmspace_zone, vm); - } + if (p == p->p_vmspace->vm_freer) + vmspace_dofree(p->p_vmspace); } /* @@ -2128,7 +2145,7 @@ vm2 = vmspace_alloc(old_map->min_offset, old_map->max_offset); bcopy(&vm1->vm_startcopy, &vm2->vm_startcopy, - (caddr_t) (vm1 + 1) - (caddr_t) &vm1->vm_startcopy); + (caddr_t) &vm1->vm_endcopy - (caddr_t) &vm1->vm_startcopy); new_map = &vm2->vm_map; /* XXX */ new_map->timestamp = 1; Index: vm/vm_map.h =================================================================== RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_map.h,v retrieving revision 1.60 diff -u -r1.60 vm_map.h --- vm/vm_map.h 2001/04/13 10:22:14 1.60 +++ vm/vm_map.h 2001/04/29 23:26:50 @@ -192,6 +192,8 @@ caddr_t vm_daddr; /* user virtual address of data XXX */ caddr_t vm_maxsaddr; /* user VA at max stack growth */ caddr_t vm_minsaddr; /* user VA at max stack growth */ +#define vm_endcopy vm_freer + struct proc *vm_freer; /* vm freed on whose behalf */ }; /* Index: vm/vm_extern.h =================================================================== RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_extern.h,v retrieving revision 1.47 diff -u -r1.47 vm_extern.h --- vm/vm_extern.h 2000/03/13 10:47:24 1.47 +++ vm/vm_extern.h 2001/04/29 23:29:09 @@ -90,6 +90,7 @@ void vmspace_exec __P((struct proc *)); void vmspace_unshare __P((struct proc *)); void vmspace_free __P((struct vmspace *)); +void vmspace_exitfree __P((struct proc *)); void vnode_pager_setsize __P((struct vnode *, vm_ooffset_t)); void vslock __P((caddr_t, u_int)); void vsunlock __P((caddr_t, u_int)); Index: alpha/alpha/vm_machdep.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/alpha/alpha/vm_machdep.c,v retrieving revision 1.47 diff -u -r1.47 vm_machdep.c --- alpha/alpha/vm_machdep.c 2001/03/15 02:32:26 1.47 +++ alpha/alpha/vm_machdep.c 2001/04/29 23:29:59 @@ -273,7 +273,7 @@ pmap_dispose_proc(p); /* and clean-out the vmspace */ - vmspace_free(p->p_vmspace); + vmspace_exitfree(p); } /* Index: i386/i386/vm_machdep.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/i386/i386/vm_machdep.c,v retrieving revision 1.154 diff -u -r1.154 vm_machdep.c --- i386/i386/vm_machdep.c 2001/03/07 03:20:14 1.154 +++ i386/i386/vm_machdep.c 2001/04/29 23:30:06 @@ -282,7 +282,7 @@ pmap_dispose_proc(p); /* and clean-out the vmspace */ - vmspace_free(p->p_vmspace); + vmspace_exitfree(p); } /* Index: ia64/ia64/vm_machdep.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/ia64/ia64/vm_machdep.c,v retrieving revision 1.16 diff -u -r1.16 vm_machdep.c --- ia64/ia64/vm_machdep.c 2001/03/07 03:20:15 1.16 +++ ia64/ia64/vm_machdep.c 2001/04/29 23:30:16 @@ -324,7 +324,7 @@ pmap_dispose_proc(p); /* and clean-out the vmspace */ - vmspace_free(p->p_vmspace); + vmspace_exitfree(p); } /* -- Brian Fundakowski Feldman \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! / green@FreeBSD.org `------------------------------' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 19: 8:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aaz.links.ru (aaz.links.ru [193.125.152.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D6237B42C; Sun, 20 May 2001 19:08:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babolo@links.ru) Received: (from babolo@localhost) by aaz.links.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA21172; Mon, 21 May 2001 06:09:55 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <200105210209.GAA21172@aaz.links.ru> Subject: Re: syscons problem In-Reply-To: <20010520150721.D61994@klapaucius.zer0.org> from "Gregory Sutter" at "May 20, 1 03:07:22 pm" To: gsutter@zer0.org (Gregory Sutter) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 06:09:55 +0400 (MSD) Cc: yokota@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: .@babolo.ru MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gregory Sutter writes: > I am experiencing a problem with syscons and init when I have a > certain line in my kernel configuration file, and am hoping that > you can fix the bug. My system is a recent 4-STABLE, although > the problem also showed up in an April 24 4-STABLE. I do not > have a -CURRENT box. > > FreeBSD trurl.zer0.org 4.3-STABLE FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE #6: Wed May 16 17:44:58 PDT 2001 gsutter@trurl.zer0.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GEN i386 > > Here is a diff between a working kernel configuration file (GEN) > and a non-working one (GEN.not): > > trurl gsutter /sys/i386/conf $diff -u -0 GEN.not GEN > --- GEN.not Wed May 16 17:12:42 2001 > +++ GEN Wed May 16 17:49:06 2001 > @@ -61 +61 @@ > -options SC_HISTORY_SIZE=8000 > +#options SC_HISTORY_SIZE=8000 > > I have not tested with other SC_HISTORY_SIZE values. > > When I boot with a kernel compiled with the SC_HISTORY_SIZE=8000 > option, I observe the following: > > 1. No gettys are spawned. If I ssh in, I can manually start > gettys. > > 2. Processes remain in zombie state after exiting. This occurs > whether they exit normally, or are killed with any signal. > > These two symptoms lead me to believe that init(8) is being > adversely affected by the syscons history size option. > > If I can be of assistance in tracking down this problem, please > let me know. 0cicuta~(5)>strings /kernel | grep ___ | grep SC_HISTORY_SIZE ___options SC_HISTORY_SIZE=2118 # number of history buffer lines 0cicuta~(6)>dc 2118 132 16 **p 4473216 q 0cicuta~(7)>uname -a FreeBSD cicuta.babolo.ru 4.3-STABLE FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE #2: Mon May 7 05:12:15 MSD 2001 babolo@cicuta.babolo.ru:/tmp/babolo/usr/src/sys/cicuta i386 As far as I remember with SC_HISTORY_SIZE=2200 switich to 132 column mode crashed FreeBSD of some old version. I think that reason for such behavior is big memory amount for history (non swapable?) -- @BABOLO http://links.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 22: 2:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailout3-0.nyroc.rr.com (mailout3-1.nyroc.rr.com [24.92.226.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F28937B424 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 22:02:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from leisner@rochester.rr.com) Received: from mail2.rochester.rr.com (mail2-1 [24.92.226.140]) by mailout3-0.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.2/RoadRunner 1.03) with ESMTP id f4L512A29561; Mon, 21 May 2001 01:01:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from soyata.home ([24.95.200.18]) by mail2.rochester.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59787U250000L250000S0V35) with ESMTP id com; Mon, 21 May 2001 01:01:02 -0400 Received: from soyata.home (IDENT:leisner@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by soyata.home (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA09767; Mon, 21 May 2001 01:02:44 -0400 Message-Id: <200105210502.BAA09767@soyata.home> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.0 09/18/1999 To: Warner Losh Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Should I worryy? In-Reply-To: Message from Warner Losh of "Fri, 18 May 2001 00:21:46 MDT." <200105180621.f4I6LkE08307@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 01:02:44 -0400 From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have a cdrom that defies logic: > > 1:14am harmony:/cdrom[51]> df /cdrom > Filesystem 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on > /dev/acd0a 54 54 0 100% /cdrom > 1:14am harmony:/cdrom[52]> du /cdrom > 325460 /cdrom/chujiten/data > 146 /cdrom/chujiten/gaiji > 325608 /cdrom/chujiten > 1089 /cdrom/mac > 1077 /cdrom/win31 > 1425 /cdrom/win95 > 329203 /cdrom > 1:14am harmony:/cdrom[53]> > > Anything to worry about? Notice du says 329M, whild df says 54k. > > This is 4.3-stable as of the first of the month. > > Warner > I'm interested in this... I've seen a problem like that in Linux (2.2.*) but never looked at each much... I don't know what happens in windows... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 20 23:33:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (cpe-66-1-147-119.ca.sprintbbd.net [66.1.147.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE3B337B42C for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 23:33:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org) Received: by sharmas.dhs.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 6185B5E100; Sun, 20 May 2001 23:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 23:28:56 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: _SC_NPROCESSORS_CONF Message-ID: <20010520232856.A29045@sharmas.dhs.org> References: <20010520124211.A10735@sharmas.dhs.org> <15112.12205.953218.814741@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <20010520135655.A27231@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <20010520135655.A27231@sharmas.dhs.org>; from arun@sharmas.dhs.org on Sun, May 20, 2001 at 01:56:55PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 01:56:55PM -0700, Arun Sharma wrote: > On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 04:57:17PM -0400, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > > > Arun Sharma writes: > > > Single UNIX spec doesn't include the above sysconf(3) argument, but > > > many UNIX variants do. What's the BSD way of doing this ? > > > > How about the hw.ncpu sysctl? > > Any objections to a patch implementing > sysconf(_SC_NPROCESSORS_CONF) in terms of hw.ncpu ? http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=27489 -Arun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 5:32:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [194.222.196.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CCF737B42C for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 05:32:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4LCWEk03640; Mon, 21 May 2001 13:32:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4LCWDb22768; Mon, 21 May 2001 13:32:13 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200105211232.f4LCWDb22768@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Ollivier Robert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@Awfulhak.org, Brett Glass Subject: Re: ppp problems on 4.3-RELEASE and PPPoE In-Reply-To: Message from Ollivier Robert of "Sun, 20 May 2001 20:02:28 +0200." <20010520200228.A22664@tara.freenix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:32:13 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I think it's important to quantify what a lockup is here. If pppctl is still working (ppp will talk to it), then it may be worth seeing what ``show physical'' and ``show timer'' say (is the link open, or is ppp waiting for something to happen via a timeout?). If pppctl isn't working it's worth building with -g and trying a kill -11 (or attaching with gdb) to get a stack trace. Brett Glass (cc'd) has complained about a similar problem where it seems that the ng_pppoe node is locked up. I can't reproduce the problem here though :( > According to James Housley: > > and I am not in Canada. I am using natd and ipfw for NAT and the > > firewall. The link has a static IP if it matters. Below I am attaching > > ppp.conf. I have watched some of the data with tcpdump on both tun0 and > > I'm also using ppp + ng_pppoe on a 4.3-STABLE system. My MTU is > 1492. Configuration below. I'm experiencing lockups from ppp (average is one > time a day). ppp stops recieving anything from the modem (Alcatel Speed Touch > Home with ethernet). > > Any idea where it could come from? > > -=-=- > default: > set device /dev/cuaa0 > set speed 115200 > disable lqr > deny lqr > set redial 15 0 > set reconnect 15 10000 > set accmap 0 > set server +3000 ******** > > adsl: > set device PPPoE:ed0: > set authname ********* > set authkey ********* > set timeout 0 > set mtu 1492 > set mru 1492 > set speed sync > disable acfcomp protocomp > deny acfcomp > set log Phase Chat LQM hdlc LCP IPCP CCP tun > set ifaddr 0/0 0/0 > add 0 0 HISADDR > dial > -=-=- > > Nothing interesting from the ppp log :-( > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr > FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 5:38:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (open.nlnetlabs.nl [213.53.69.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4BB937B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 05:38:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alexis@open.nlnetlabs.nl) Received: (from alexis@localhost) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4LCcBm59749; Mon, 21 May 2001 14:38:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alexis) Message-Id: <200105211238.f4LCcBm59749@open.nlnetlabs.nl> Subject: Re: ipv6 only? In-Reply-To: <20010516180343.A37960@xor.obsecurity.org> "from Kris Kennaway at May 16, 2001 06:03:43 pm" To: Kris Kennaway Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:38:11 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Alexis Yushin , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Alexis Yushin Reply-To: alexis@nlnetlabs.nl X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL87 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well it is definitely not as easy as compiling INET out of the kernel. inet6 code uses a lot of inet code, does look a little bit messy on first sight. Alexis Once Kris Kennaway wrote: -- Start of PGP signed section. >On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 03:20:52PM +0200, Alexis Yushin wrote: >> Hello there, >> >> I wonder if anybody here has any experience with compiling >> pure IPv6 system without IPv4 support in the kernel at all? >> >> Are there any projects like that? > >It's probably not all that difficult, as these things go, but it >requires code fixes. > >Kris -- End of PGP section, PGP failed! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 6:48:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.jeamland.net (rafe.jeamland.net [203.18.243.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9BE137B424; Mon, 21 May 2001 06:48:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from benno@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mail.jeamland.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C5BB470606; Mon, 21 May 2001 23:48:12 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 23:48:12 +1000 From: Benno Rice To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD/powerpc work to date Message-ID: <20010521234812.B56326@rafe.jeamland.net> Reply-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="kORqDWCi7qDJ0mEj" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --kORqDWCi7qDJ0mEj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 I've placed a snapshot of my work on FreeBSD/powerpc to date up at: http://people.freebsd.org/~benno/commit/ I'd like to commit this sometime in the next few days. This current snapsh= ot will get up to attempting to initialise VM and hang on my iMac (slot-loading model). There are some unresolved issues with pmap.c that are preventing it getting further at the moment. I'd like to commit this so as to allow more people to look at it, and also to get it under some form of change control. There are undoubtedly style bugs and numerous other problems with the code as it stands, however I'd like to get it in the tree now and sort these out later. Please feel free to review, comment, etc. The snapshot is in the form of a diff against -CURRENT and a tar.gz file containing new files that would need to be committed. Both of these files are rooted in src/sys. Replies set to go to freebsd-ppc. --=20 Benno Rice benno@FreeBSD.org --kORqDWCi7qDJ0mEj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjsJHJwACgkQbQx7xhW+Eg47CwCgj+ovQucn7+0kQyaDn8io5CfL 0NQAoIHQhjVw/u2pVBw0XFa7B2XSLv96 =CXG2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --kORqDWCi7qDJ0mEj-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 6:59:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aifhs8.alcatel.fr (aifhs8.alcatel.fr [212.208.74.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB2137B422; Mon, 21 May 2001 06:59:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr) Received: from frmta003.netfr.alcatel.fr (frmta003.netfr.alcatel.fr [155.132.251.32]) by aifhs8.alcatel.fr (ALCANET/SMTP2) with SMTP id PAA20501; Mon, 21 May 2001 15:59:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by frmta003.netfr.alcatel.fr(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id C1256A53.004CE463 ; Mon, 21 May 2001 15:59:52 +0200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ALCATEL From: Thierry.Herbelot@alcatel.fr To: hackers@freebsd.org, Audit@freebsd.org Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:59:15 +0200 Subject: memory leak in libfetch ? (with patch) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hello, [this is using a 4.3-Release machine] I'm using libfetch for automated file transfers from a program (via ftp). The program is running for long periods of time, and seems to be leaking memory (at least it's SIZE in top(1) just grows and grows - the swap is also increasingly used). As there is no dynamically allocated memory in my program, one suspect could be libfetch(3). Indeed, there are 5 calls to malloc(3) in the source code of the lib : - in common.c, line 263, which should not cause a leak as the pointer is stored in buf, which is later saved, - in common.c, line 362, in a function which is not used in my app (the file name is known) - in fetch.c, line 377, in a function which is used only for http/https transfers, thus not in my app, - in http.c, line 517, in a function which is used only for http/https transfers, thus not in my app, - finally in ftp.c, line 434, in a suspicious manner : the "io" variable is located on the stack, thus visible only from this function, gets a pointer to a newly allocated ftpio struct and disappears after _ftp_setup() returns. The comparison between usr.bin/compress/zopen.c:zclose() and lib/libfetch/ftp.c:_ftp_close() shows a missing free(cookie) at the end of the function. the following patch seems to cure the memory leak : ----------------------------------------- --- ftp.c.ori Sat Apr 7 19:30:48 2001 +++ ftp.c Mon May 21 15:26:42 2001 @@ -422,7 +422,9 @@ io->err = 0; close(io->csd); io->csd = -1; - return io->err ? -1 : 0; + r = io->err ? -1 : 0; + free(io); + return (r); } static FILE * ----------------------------------------- TfH To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 9:31: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mcp.csh.rit.edu (mcp.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F8937B42C for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 09:30:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jon@csh.rit.edu) Received: from fury.csh.rit.edu (fury.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.5]) by mcp.csh.rit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ADA411FD for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 12:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fury.csh.rit.edu (Postfix, from userid 37404) id B3AE72E3E5; Mon, 21 May 2001 12:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 12:30:44 -0400 From: Jon Parise To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sysctl to disable reboot Message-ID: <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i X-Operating-System: SunOS 5.8 (sun4u) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline I thought it would be useful to have a sysctl for disabling the keyboard reboot sequence. This functionality is currently available through the SC_DISABLE_REBOOT config option, but it's convenient to have this capability available at runtime, too. I can't say I'm much of a kernel hacker, but the attached patch works fine for me. It applies against 4.3-STABLE, but the same logic applied to 5.0-CURRENT (which I don't have available for testing). Note that investigation revealed that OpenBSD has a similar sysctl named machdep.kdbreset. I prefer machdep.disable_reboot_key, but I'm against changing it for feel-good compatibility reasons. If someone with clue feels there is merit in this, feel free to commit it. -- Jon Parise (jon@csh.rit.edu) . Rochester Inst. of Technology http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/ : Computer Science House Member --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="disable_reboot.patch" --- syscons.c.orig Sun Oct 29 11:59:27 2000 +++ syscons.c Mon May 21 12:15:57 2001 @@ -118,6 +118,12 @@ SYSCTL_INT(_machdep, OID_AUTO, enable_panic_key, CTLFLAG_RW, &enable_panic_key, 0, ""); +#ifndef SC_DISABLE_REBOOT +static int disable_reboot_key; +SYSCTL_INT(_machdep, OID_AUTO, disable_reboot_key, CTLFLAG_RW, + &disable_reboot_key, 0, "Disable the reboot key sequence"); +#endif + #define SC_CONSOLECTL 255 #define VIRTUAL_TTY(sc, x) (SC_DEV((sc), (x))->si_tty) @@ -3101,19 +3107,22 @@ case RBT: #ifndef SC_DISABLE_REBOOT - shutdown_nice(0); + if (!disable_reboot_key) + shutdown_nice(0); #endif break; case HALT: #ifndef SC_DISABLE_REBOOT - shutdown_nice(RB_HALT); + if (!disable_reboot_key) + shutdown_nice(RB_HALT); #endif break; case PDWN: #ifndef SC_DISABLE_REBOOT - shutdown_nice(RB_HALT|RB_POWEROFF); + if (!disable_reboot_key) + shutdown_nice(RB_HALT|RB_POWEROFF); #endif break; --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 10:19:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB6537B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 10:19:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18983; Mon, 21 May 2001 11:18:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010521110522.00bc65a0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:11:18 -0600 To: Brian Somers , Ollivier Robert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: ppp problems on 4.3-RELEASE and PPPoE Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@Awfulhak.org In-Reply-To: <200105211232.f4LCWDb22768@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> References: <20010520200228.A22664@tara.freenix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian: If he's having the same lockup as me, PPP is blocking on a select() while trying to re-establish a connection that has gone down. If there's a pppctl socket open and you're issuing commands it doesn't lock up. But when you shut down the socket by terminating pppctl the lockup occurs. The lockup also occurs if pppctl wasn't running at the outset. To reproduce the problem (and it's easily reproducible here), pull the client's Ethernet cable. The client will retry properly once. The second time it retries, it will lock. Since this may be adapter-dependent, try with an ed card (I think that everyone in the universe must have at least one of these). --Brett At 06:32 AM 5/21/2001, Brian Somers wrote: >Hi, > >I think it's important to quantify what a lockup is here. > >If pppctl is still working (ppp will talk to it), then it may be >worth seeing what ``show physical'' and ``show timer'' say (is the >link open, or is ppp waiting for something to happen via a timeout?). > >If pppctl isn't working it's worth building with -g and trying a kill >-11 (or attaching with gdb) to get a stack trace. > >Brett Glass (cc'd) has complained about a similar problem where it >seems that the ng_pppoe node is locked up. I can't reproduce the >problem here though :( > >> According to James Housley: >> > and I am not in Canada. I am using natd and ipfw for NAT and the >> > firewall. The link has a static IP if it matters. Below I am attaching >> > ppp.conf. I have watched some of the data with tcpdump on both tun0 and >> >> I'm also using ppp + ng_pppoe on a 4.3-STABLE system. My MTU is >> 1492. Configuration below. I'm experiencing lockups from ppp (average is one >> time a day). ppp stops recieving anything from the modem (Alcatel Speed Touch >> Home with ethernet). >> >> Any idea where it could come from? >> >> -=-=- >> default: >> set device /dev/cuaa0 >> set speed 115200 >> disable lqr >> deny lqr >> set redial 15 0 >> set reconnect 15 10000 >> set accmap 0 >> set server +3000 ******** >> >> adsl: >> set device PPPoE:ed0: >> set authname ********* >> set authkey ********* >> set timeout 0 >> set mtu 1492 >> set mru 1492 >> set speed sync >> disable acfcomp protocomp >> deny acfcomp >> set log Phase Chat LQM hdlc LCP IPCP CCP tun >> set ifaddr 0/0 0/0 >> add 0 0 HISADDR >> dial >> -=-=- >> >> Nothing interesting from the ppp log :-( >> -- >> Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr >> FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 > >-- >Brian > >Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 10:24:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from master.ndi.net (master.ndi.net [209.45.245.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC33E37B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 10:24:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ccf@master.ndi.net) Received: from localhost (ccf@localhost) by master.ndi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA92273 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 17:10:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ccf@master.ndi.net) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 17:10:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: technical comparison Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I appoligize if this is the improper channel for this sort of discussion, but it is in the best interests of the FreeBSD following, atleast, within my orginization. I work in an environment consisting of 300+ systems, all FreeBSD and Solaris, along with lots of EMC and F5 stuff. Our engineering division has been working on a dynamic content server and search engine for the past 2.5 years. They have consistently not met up to performance and throughput requirements and have always blamed our use of FreeBSD for it. We have humored them time and time again; i.e. they once claimed the lack of some sort of RAID was keeping them from meeting their requirements, when he had already thrown brute amounts of hardware at their application. When we setup a load-testing environment with multiple types of RAIDs, all the systems, including the one without any sort of RAID performed identically. And poorly, at that. We have had a recent change in departmental structure, which unfortunately, weakened the more technical side of the top of the food chain. They have taken this as another opportunity to push for Linux-use within our environment. We do not want, nor feel the need for introducing another OS into the environment. The following are the points that the head of engineering claimed were their requirements and our shortcoming, which Linux would handle well: --- a) A machine that has fast character operations b) A *supported* Oracle client c) A filesystem that will be fast in light of tens of thousands of files in a single directory (maybe even hundreds of thousands) Requirement a) means that it won't run well on a Sparc processor as they are notoriously bad at character addressing, and since search makes extensive use of character operations (as does *any* web application server for that matter), using a Sparc processor will be a waste since the x86 architecture (AMD's and Crusoe's especially) do it much better. Requirement b) means it won't be FreeBSD. Yes, you can run Linux apps under emulation, but I'd bet dollars for doughnuts that this will be a support nightmare if we can even get it to work. Requirement c) means it won't be Solaris or FreeBSD since neither of them have a filesystem which handles this effectively. Linux on Intel fits the bill because it meets these three requirements *very* effectively. --- I find them to be mostly silly points -- (a) touching on integer math -- pretty moot point given the real meat of this. (b) is wrong, since there is a native port of the oracle client and (c) is just silly -- I'm sure softupdates on a modern BSD ufs is loads faster than ext2fs. Folks, please give me some real technical ammo -- reference internals, give a real technical comparison if possible. I don't believe this is some lame FreeBSD/Linux comparison -- I'm simply trying to tactfully and effectively deal with a zealot. :-) Any help would be greatly appreciated. -charles. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 10:28: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [62.4.20.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BA1E37B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 10:28:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@tara.freenix.org) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 04FDF1E9; Mon, 21 May 2001 19:28:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 19:28:01 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: Brett Glass Cc: Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ppp problems on 4.3-RELEASE and PPPoE Message-ID: <20010521192801.A1607@tara.freenix.org> Mail-Followup-To: Brett Glass , Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010520200228.A22664@tara.freenix.org> <200105211232.f4LCWDb22768@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010521110522.00bc65a0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010521110522.00bc65a0@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:11:18AM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT K6-3D/266 & 2x PPro/200 SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Brett Glass: > To reproduce the problem (and it's easily reproducible > here), pull the client's Ethernet cable. The client will > retry properly once. The second time it retries, it will > lock. Since this may be adapter-dependent, try with an ed > card (I think that everyone in the universe must have at > least one of these). I have an ed0 card for the PPPoE side. I'll try that. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 10:28:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [62.4.20.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ADB037B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 10:28:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@tara.freenix.org) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id A624E1EE; Mon, 21 May 2001 19:28:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 19:28:12 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: Brian Somers Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass Subject: Re: ppp problems on 4.3-RELEASE and PPPoE Message-ID: <20010521192812.A1611@tara.freenix.org> Mail-Followup-To: Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass References: <200105211232.f4LCWDb22768@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105211232.f4LCWDb22768@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org>; from brian@Awfulhak.org on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 01:32:13PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT K6-3D/266 & 2x PPro/200 SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Brian Somers: > If pppctl is still working (ppp will talk to it), then it may be > worth seeing what ``show physical'' and ``show timer'' say (is the > link open, or is ppp waiting for something to happen via a timeout?). ppp is still running and pppctl can talk to it. I'll try what Brett said to see if I have the same lockup but I suspect it is the same. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 10:43:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-11.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3F8637B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 10:43:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.demon.nl) Received: from [212.238.54.101] (helo=freebie.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 151ti2-0001vI-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 21 May 2001 17:43:10 +0000 Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.demon.nl (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4LHmSs00799 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 21 May 2001 19:48:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 19:48:28 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: -R for make update ? Message-ID: <20010521194828.A789@freebie.demon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Is there any specific reason why one needs to be able to write a lock to the CVS repo when running 'make update' to get a freshly checked out source? The Makefile.inc1 has: .if defined(CVS_UPDATE) @echo "--------------------------------------------------------------" @echo ">>> Updating ${.CURDIR} from cvs repository" ${CVSROOT} @echo "--------------------------------------------------------------" cd ${.CURDIR}; cvs -q update -A -P -d .endif In other words, would adding '-R' hurt? Wilko [who hopes he did not miss the obvious] -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands email: wilko@freebsd.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte Powered by FreeBSD/alpha http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 10:45:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [212.135.162.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37FB337B43C for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 10:45:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@tao.org.uk) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id 4320A53C; Mon, 21 May 2001 18:45:28 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:45:28 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: Wilko Bulte Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -R for make update ? Message-ID: <20010521184527.C840@tao.org.uk> References: <20010521194828.A789@freebie.demon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Fig2xvG2VGoz8o/s" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010521194828.A789@freebie.demon.nl>; from wkb@freebie.demon.nl on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 07:48:28PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --Fig2xvG2VGoz8o/s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 07:48:28PM +0200, Wilko Bulte wrote: > Hi=20 >=20 > Is there any specific reason why one needs to be able to write a lock to = the > CVS repo when running 'make update' to get a freshly checked out source?= =20 > The Makefile.inc1 has: >=20 > .if defined(CVS_UPDATE) > @echo > "--------------------------------------------------------------" > @echo ">>> Updating ${.CURDIR} from cvs repository" ${CVSROOT} > @echo > "--------------------------------------------------------------" > cd ${.CURDIR}; cvs -q update -A -P -d > .endif >=20 > In other words, would adding '-R' hurt? I don't see why it should. Joe --Fig2xvG2VGoz8o/s Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjsJVDcACgkQXVIcjOaxUBbTuACbBFTUaaa42kgW1Uy6de6db+B+ JoIAn12i9vsm2MjQ6q0LPFNRHAVGEwRN =poa8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Fig2xvG2VGoz8o/s-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 10:59: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 330BE37B43F; Mon, 21 May 2001 10:58:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4LHwmG45094; Mon, 21 May 2001 10:58:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200105210205.f4L25x102099@green.bikeshed.org> Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 10:58:54 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: "Brian F. Feldman" Subject: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 21-May-01 Brian F. Feldman wrote: > There's a certain issue that when several processes sharing a vmspace are > exiting at the same time, there is a race condition such that the shared > memory is going to be lost because the check for vm->vm_refcnt being the > check for the last decrement happening before the last decrement is > actually performed, allowing for the possibility of Giant being dropped > (duh, during flushing of dirty pages), and all the trouble that entails... Erm, all that is needed here is to hold the vm_mtx lock around the decrement. Due to the nature of reference counts, there is no race condition so long as everyone properly decrements the reference count by means of lock. Alfred's VM patch already does this. Also, Giant originally provided the lock around the decrement. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 11:12:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA41E37B43C; Mon, 21 May 2001 11:12:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4LIC5t03635; Mon, 21 May 2001 11:12:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:12:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105211812.f4LIC5t03635@earth.backplane.com> To: "Brian F. Feldman" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) References: <200105210205.f4L25x102099@green.bikeshed.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This could explain a few bug reports I've had over the years in regards to systems leaking swap space. Good find! Hmmm. May I suggest an alternative? * Keep the part that changes vm->vm_refcnt == 1 to --vm->vm_refcnt == 0 when checking whether to free the underlying resources or not. This introduces one extra ref count decrement. * Instead of breaking out the vmspace freeing code or adding any check fields, simply change the way vmspace_free() operates so instead of checking --vm->vm_refcnt == 0, it instead checks for vm->vm_refcnt == -1. Old vmspace_free() code: if (vm->vm_refcnt == 0) panic(...) if (--vm->vm_refcnt == 0) { ... } Suggested fix (pseudo code / incomplete): /* * One extra refcnt decrement occurs before freeing. The * process that takes responsibility for releasing the * vmspace resources decrements refcnt to 0, then the vmspace * is further decremented when released from cpu_wait(). */ if (vm->vm_refcnt <= -1) panic(...) if (--vm->vm_refcnt == -1) { ... } You might have to make other adjustments in the codebase, since there are a couple of other places where vm_refcnt is used (fgrep vm_refcnt */*.c). This is only a suggestion. I have not tested it in any way. We use a similar trick for the vnode ref count. I would be happy to review and test your final solution. -Matt :... :There's a certain issue that when several processes sharing a vmspace are :exiting at the same time, there is a race condition such that the shared :memory is going to be lost because the check for vm->vm_refcnt being the :check for the last decrement happening before the last decrement is :actually performed, allowing for the possibility of Giant being dropped :(duh, during flushing of dirty pages), and all the trouble that entails... : :Anyway, here's what I currently have which seems to fix it. Anyone want to :comment on its correctness? The newly introduced vm_freer should be valid :to test against: it's only necessary to differentiate between multiple :holders of the same vmspace, so there shouldn't be any problem with recycled :proc pointers or anything. : :Index: kern/kern_exit.c :=================================================================== :RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/kern/kern_exit.c,v :retrieving revision 1.123 :diff -u -r1.123 kern_exit.c :--- kern/kern_exit.c 2001/03/28 11:52:53 1.123 :+++ kern/kern_exit.c 2001/04/29 23:47:36 :@@ -222,13 +222,14 @@ : * Can't free the entire vmspace as the kernel stack : * may be mapped within that space also. : */ :- if (vm->vm_refcnt == 1) { :+ if (--vm->vm_refcnt == 0) { : if (vm->vm_shm) : shmexit(p); : pmap_remove_pages(vmspace_pmap(vm), VM_MIN_ADDRESS, : VM_MAXUSER_ADDRESS); : (void) vm_map_remove(&vm->vm_map, VM_MIN_ADDRESS, : VM_MAXUSER_ADDRESS); :+ vm->vm_freer = curproc; : } : : PROC_LOCK(p); :@@ -379,7 +380,7 @@ : /* : * Finally, call machine-dependent code to release the remaining : * resources including address space, the kernel stack and pcb. :- * The address space is released by "vmspace_free(p->p_vmspace)"; :+ * The address space is released by "vmspace_exitfree(p)"; : * This is machine-dependent, as we may have to change stacks : * or ensure that the current one isn't reallocated before we : * finish. cpu_exit will end with a call to cpu_switch(), finishing :Index: vm/vm_map.c :=================================================================== :RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_map.c,v :retrieving revision 1.198 :diff -u -r1.198 vm_map.c :--- vm/vm_map.c 2001/04/12 21:50:03 1.198 :+++ vm/vm_map.c 2001/04/29 23:44:09 :@@ -178,6 +178,7 @@ : vm->vm_map.pmap = vmspace_pmap(vm); /* XXX */ : vm->vm_refcnt = 1; : vm->vm_shm = NULL; :+ vm->vm_freer = NULL; : return (vm); : } : :@@ -194,6 +195,27 @@ : vm_object_init2(); : } : :+static __inline void :+vmspace_dofree(vm) :+ struct vmspace *vm; :+{ :+ :+ /* :+ * Lock the map, to wait out all other references to it. :+ * Delete all of the mappings and pages they hold, then call :+ * the pmap module to reclaim anything left. :+ */ :+ vm_map_lock(&vm->vm_map); :+ (void) vm_map_delete(&vm->vm_map, vm->vm_map.min_offset, :+ vm->vm_map.max_offset); :+ vm_map_unlock(&vm->vm_map); :+ :+ pmap_release(vmspace_pmap(vm)); :+ vm_map_destroy(&vm->vm_map); :+ zfree(vmspace_zone, vm); :+} :+ :+ : void : vmspace_free(vm) : struct vmspace *vm; :@@ -202,22 +224,17 @@ : if (vm->vm_refcnt == 0) : panic("vmspace_free: attempt to free already freed vmspace"); : :- if (--vm->vm_refcnt == 0) { :+ if (--vm->vm_refcnt == 0) :+ vmspace_dofree(vm); :+} : :- /* :- * Lock the map, to wait out all other references to it. :- * Delete all of the mappings and pages they hold, then call :- * the pmap module to reclaim anything left. :- */ :- vm_map_lock(&vm->vm_map); :- (void) vm_map_delete(&vm->vm_map, vm->vm_map.min_offset, :- vm->vm_map.max_offset); :- vm_map_unlock(&vm->vm_map); :+void :+vmspace_exitfree(p) :+ struct proc *p; :+{ : :- pmap_release(vmspace_pmap(vm)); :- vm_map_destroy(&vm->vm_map); :- zfree(vmspace_zone, vm); :- } :+ if (p == p->p_vmspace->vm_freer) :+ vmspace_dofree(p->p_vmspace); : } : : /* :@@ -2128,7 +2145,7 @@ : : vm2 = vmspace_alloc(old_map->min_offset, old_map->max_offset); : bcopy(&vm1->vm_startcopy, &vm2->vm_startcopy, :- (caddr_t) (vm1 + 1) - (caddr_t) &vm1->vm_startcopy); :+ (caddr_t) &vm1->vm_endcopy - (caddr_t) &vm1->vm_startcopy); : new_map = &vm2->vm_map; /* XXX */ : new_map->timestamp = 1; : :Index: vm/vm_map.h :=================================================================== :RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_map.h,v :retrieving revision 1.60 :diff -u -r1.60 vm_map.h :--- vm/vm_map.h 2001/04/13 10:22:14 1.60 :+++ vm/vm_map.h 2001/04/29 23:26:50 :@@ -192,6 +192,8 @@ : caddr_t vm_daddr; /* user virtual address of data XXX */ : caddr_t vm_maxsaddr; /* user VA at max stack growth */ : caddr_t vm_minsaddr; /* user VA at max stack growth */ :+#define vm_endcopy vm_freer :+ struct proc *vm_freer; /* vm freed on whose behalf */ : }; : : /* :Index: vm/vm_extern.h :=================================================================== :RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_extern.h,v :retrieving revision 1.47 :diff -u -r1.47 vm_extern.h :--- vm/vm_extern.h 2000/03/13 10:47:24 1.47 :+++ vm/vm_extern.h 2001/04/29 23:29:09 :@@ -90,6 +90,7 @@ : void vmspace_exec __P((struct proc *)); : void vmspace_unshare __P((struct proc *)); : void vmspace_free __P((struct vmspace *)); :+void vmspace_exitfree __P((struct proc *)); : void vnode_pager_setsize __P((struct vnode *, vm_ooffset_t)); : void vslock __P((caddr_t, u_int)); : void vsunlock __P((caddr_t, u_int)); :Index: alpha/alpha/vm_machdep.c :=================================================================== :RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/alpha/alpha/vm_machdep.c,v :retrieving revision 1.47 :diff -u -r1.47 vm_machdep.c :--- alpha/alpha/vm_machdep.c 2001/03/15 02:32:26 1.47 :+++ alpha/alpha/vm_machdep.c 2001/04/29 23:29:59 :@@ -273,7 +273,7 @@ : pmap_dispose_proc(p); : : /* and clean-out the vmspace */ :- vmspace_free(p->p_vmspace); :+ vmspace_exitfree(p); : } : : /* :Index: i386/i386/vm_machdep.c :=================================================================== :RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/i386/i386/vm_machdep.c,v :retrieving revision 1.154 :diff -u -r1.154 vm_machdep.c :--- i386/i386/vm_machdep.c 2001/03/07 03:20:14 1.154 :+++ i386/i386/vm_machdep.c 2001/04/29 23:30:06 :@@ -282,7 +282,7 @@ : pmap_dispose_proc(p); : : /* and clean-out the vmspace */ :- vmspace_free(p->p_vmspace); :+ vmspace_exitfree(p); : } : : /* :Index: ia64/ia64/vm_machdep.c :=================================================================== :RCS file: /usr2/ncvs/src/sys/ia64/ia64/vm_machdep.c,v :retrieving revision 1.16 :diff -u -r1.16 vm_machdep.c :--- ia64/ia64/vm_machdep.c 2001/03/07 03:20:15 1.16 :+++ ia64/ia64/vm_machdep.c 2001/04/29 23:30:16 :@@ -324,7 +324,7 @@ : pmap_dispose_proc(p); : : /* and clean-out the vmspace */ :- vmspace_free(p->p_vmspace); :+ vmspace_exitfree(p); : } : : /* : : :-- : Brian Fundakowski Feldman \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! / : green@FreeBSD.org `------------------------------' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 11:20:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D2D937B422; Mon, 21 May 2001 11:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4LIKUs03769; Mon, 21 May 2001 11:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:20:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105211820.f4LIKUs03769@earth.backplane.com> To: John Baldwin Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :On 21-May-01 Brian F. Feldman wrote: :> There's a certain issue that when several processes sharing a vmspace are :> exiting at the same time, there is a race condition such that the shared :> memory is going to be lost because the check for vm->vm_refcnt being the :> check for the last decrement happening before the last decrement is :> actually performed, allowing for the possibility of Giant being dropped :> (duh, during flushing of dirty pages), and all the trouble that entails... : :Erm, all that is needed here is to hold the vm_mtx lock around the decrement. :Due to the nature of reference counts, there is no race condition so long as :everyone properly decrements the reference count by means of lock. Alfred's VM :patch already does this. Also, Giant originally provided the lock around the :decrement. : :-- : :John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ That isn't the problem. The problem is that the process can block in between the 'if (vm->vm_refcnt == 1)' test in exit1(), and the actual vmspace_free() in cpu_exit() (which occurs after the process has been reaped). It is possible for the vm_refcnt check in exit1() to *NEVER* be 1 if all the processes sharing the address space exit simultaniously and block anywhere between that check and the vmspace_free(). The result: shmexit() is never called. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 11:30:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7468037B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 11:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4LIUB319340; Mon, 21 May 2001 13:30:11 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:30:11 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Wilko Bulte Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -R for make update ? Message-ID: <20010521133011.A13782@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20010521194828.A789@freebie.demon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.17i In-Reply-To: <20010521194828.A789@freebie.demon.nl>; from "Wilko Bulte" on Mon May 21 19:48:28 GMT 2001 X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (May 21), Wilko Bulte said: > Is there any specific reason why one needs to be able to write a lock > to the CVS repo when running 'make update' to get a freshly checked > out source? > The Makefile.inc1 has: > > .if defined(CVS_UPDATE) > cd ${.CURDIR}; cvs -q update -A -P -d > .endif > > In other words, would adding '-R' hurt? If you are accessing a local CVS repo that you have updated via cvsup, no. But if you are accessing something on freefall directly, I think you need the locking just in case someone is committing at the same time. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 11:35:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dns1.ahaza.com (maitai.ahaza.com [209.180.220.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5067037B43C for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 11:35:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twiess@ahaza.com) Received: from relay.ux.ahaza.com ([209.180.221.130]) by dns1.ahaza.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f4LIZVF71363 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 11:35:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twiess@ahaza.com) Received: from eunice.camelot.ahaza.com (eunice.camelot.ahaza.com [172.16.30.18]) by relay.ux.ahaza.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f4LIZVq42179 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 11:35:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twiess@ahaza.com) Received: from akira.ahaza.com ([172.16.30.230]) by eunice.camelot.ahaza.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Mon, 21 May 2001 11:32:10 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:38:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Tim Wiess X-X-Sender: To: Subject: 4GB Message-ID: <20010521110007.J316-100000@akira.ahaza.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2001 18:32:10.0344 (UTC) FILETIME=[58D52E80:01C0E224] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all, I've been experiencing some major problems running FreeBSD on 4GB of memory, and I was curious if anyone has experienced this before. Bascially, the problem is that FreeBSD just won't boot. Shortly after the kernel gains control of the system, it panics... Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode mp_lock = 0000000b; cpuid = 0; lapic.id = 00000000 fault virtual address = 0xbff11000 fault code = supervisor write, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xc027e48c stack pointer = 0x10:0xc03c4f30 frame pointer = 0x10:0xc03c4f3c 95 code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = Idle interrupt mask = net tty bio cam <- SMP: XXX kernel: type 12 trap, code=0 Stopped at 0xc027e48c: movl %edx,0xbfc00000(,%eax,4) The IP is pointing to the pmap_map() loop. So it's clearly having problems mapping out the VM. I have yet to do any rigorous debugging, but I thought I would run this by the mailing list before I do. The system is running on a Tyan Tiger LE board with dual PIIIs (860Mhz) and 4 1GB (133Mhz) SiliconTech chips. I have tested Linux on this same configuration, and while it boots normally, it will eventually panic with a similar error once you start doing some real work. Any thoughts? thanks tim To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 12:23: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53DF837B422; Mon, 21 May 2001 12:22:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4LJMiG46562; Mon, 21 May 2001 12:22:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200105211820.f4LIKUs03769@earth.backplane.com> Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 12:22:51 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Matt Dillon Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, "Brian F. Feldman" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 21-May-01 Matt Dillon wrote: >:On 21-May-01 Brian F. Feldman wrote: >:> There's a certain issue that when several processes sharing a vmspace are >:> exiting at the same time, there is a race condition such that the shared >:> memory is going to be lost because the check for vm->vm_refcnt being the >:> check for the last decrement happening before the last decrement is >:> actually performed, allowing for the possibility of Giant being dropped >:> (duh, during flushing of dirty pages), and all the trouble that entails... >: >:Erm, all that is needed here is to hold the vm_mtx lock around the decrement. >:Due to the nature of reference counts, there is no race condition so long as >:everyone properly decrements the reference count by means of lock. Alfred's >:VM >:patch already does this. Also, Giant originally provided the lock around the >:decrement. >: >:-- >: >:John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ > > That isn't the problem. The problem is that the process can block > in between the 'if (vm->vm_refcnt == 1)' test in exit1(), and the > actual vmspace_free() in cpu_exit() (which occurs after the process > has been reaped). Err, you mean cpu_wait(). :) > It is possible for the vm_refcnt check in exit1() to *NEVER* be 1 > if all the processes sharing the address space exit simultaniously > and block anywhere between that check and the vmspace_free(). The > result: shmexit() is never called. IOW, the vmspace refcount is being (ab)used for the shm stuff. Why not move the shmexit() to vmspace_free()? Hmm, I suppose the actual unmapping of all the user pages has this problem as well? I guess that vmspace_free() happens to hide that bug though as it will release the pages if they are still held in vm_map_delete() and pmap_release(). If that is the case and it isn't harmful, why not just postpone all the vmspace release and shmexit to cpu_wait? As a side note, it looks like all of cpu_wait() could move into teh bottom of wait1() and cpu_wait() could become an empty function right now. Nothing very MD in it at the moment. > -Matt -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 12:35:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C858537B422; Mon, 21 May 2001 12:35:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4LJZHx05386; Mon, 21 May 2001 12:35:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 12:35:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105211935.f4LJZHx05386@earth.backplane.com> To: John Baldwin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, "Brian F. Feldman" Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :>:John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ :> :> That isn't the problem. The problem is that the process can block :> in between the 'if (vm->vm_refcnt == 1)' test in exit1(), and the :> actual vmspace_free() in cpu_exit() (which occurs after the process :> has been reaped). : :Err, you mean cpu_wait(). :) : :> It is possible for the vm_refcnt check in exit1() to *NEVER* be 1 :> if all the processes sharing the address space exit simultaniously :> and block anywhere between that check and the vmspace_free(). The :> result: shmexit() is never called. : :IOW, the vmspace refcount is being (ab)used for the shm stuff. Why not move :the shmexit() to vmspace_free()? Hmm, I suppose the actual unmapping of all :the user pages has this problem as well? I guess that vmspace_free() happens :to hide that bug though as it will release the pages if they are still held in :vm_map_delete() and pmap_release(). If that is the case and it isn't harmful, :why not just postpone all the vmspace release and shmexit to cpu_wait? It's important to release resources as early as possible, so zombied processes don't run the machine out of memory if a parent forgets to reap its children. You can also get into non-optimal VM interactions with fork()ing servers if you delay resource freeing when a child exits (for example, Apache). Also, as per the comment, some things you have to do while the process is still capable of blocking. This is why the hack is in there. It is somewhat redundant... you are right, only the shared memory piece is left hanging when all is said and done. Unfortunately when the shared vm space capability was originally added, the authors introduced a couple of bugs. This is one of them (the other biggy was with file descriptor open/close/dup races). :As a side note, it looks like all of cpu_wait() could move into teh bottom of :wait1() and cpu_wait() could become an empty function right now. Nothing very :MD in it at the moment. : :> -Matt :John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ Yah, I'm sure there are a lot of MI/MD cleanups that could be done. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 12:46:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1329437B424; Mon, 21 May 2001 12:46:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4LJk5G47023; Mon, 21 May 2001 12:46:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200105211935.f4LJZHx05386@earth.backplane.com> Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 12:46:13 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Matt Dillon Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 21-May-01 Matt Dillon wrote: > >:>:John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ >:IOW, the vmspace refcount is being (ab)used for the shm stuff. Why not move >:the shmexit() to vmspace_free()? Hmm, I suppose the actual unmapping of all >:the user pages has this problem as well? I guess that vmspace_free() happens >:to hide that bug though as it will release the pages if they are still held >:in >:vm_map_delete() and pmap_release(). If that is the case and it isn't >:harmful, >:why not just postpone all the vmspace release and shmexit to cpu_wait? > > It's important to release resources as early as possible, so zombied > processes don't run the machine out of memory if a parent forgets to > reap its children. You can also get into non-optimal VM interactions > with fork()ing servers if you delay resource freeing when a child > exits (for example, Apache). Also, as per the comment, some things you > have to do while the process is still capable of blocking. This is > why the hack is in there. It is somewhat redundant... you are right, > only the shared memory piece is left hanging when all is said and done. > > Unfortunately when the shared vm space capability was originally added, > the authors introduced a couple of bugs. This is one of them (the > other biggy was with file descriptor open/close/dup races). Ok, then why not let the current shmexit() stay in exit1() as a hack to help free memory, but add in a check in vmspace_free() as well to catch any race conditions that may fall through the cracks? As long as we clear the shm pointer in struct vmspace when we free it then we won't be double free'ing, and will always free it eventually. That is also a much simpler change. :) Additionally, adding to the comment in exit1() clarifying that this is an attempt to free resources as soon as possible and that the race condition is known and that vmspace_free() is a catch-all might be nice as well. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 12:58: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from root.com (unknown [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C1B37B42C for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 12:58:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg@root.com) Received: (from dg@localhost) by root.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f4LJqcx02693; Mon, 21 May 2001 12:52:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 12:52:38 -0700 From: David Greenman To: Tim Wiess Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4GB Message-ID: <20010521125238.R19893@nexus.root.com> References: <20010521110007.J316-100000@akira.ahaza.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20010521110007.J316-100000@akira.ahaza.com>; from twiess@ahaza.com on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:38:35AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Hello all, >I've been experiencing some major problems running FreeBSD on 4GB of >memory, and I was curious if anyone has experienced this before. > >Bascially, the problem is that FreeBSD just won't boot. Shortly after the >kernel gains control of the system, it panics... > >Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode >mp_lock = 0000000b; cpuid = 0; lapic.id = 00000000 >fault virtual address = 0xbff11000 >fault code = supervisor write, page not present >instruction pointer = 0x8:0xc027e48c >stack pointer = 0x10:0xc03c4f30 >frame pointer = 0x10:0xc03c4f3c 95 >code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 >processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 >current process = Idle >interrupt mask = net tty bio cam <- SMP: XXX >kernel: type 12 trap, code=0 >Stopped at 0xc027e48c: movl %edx,0xbfc00000(,%eax,4) > >The IP is pointing to the pmap_map() loop. So it's clearly having problems >mapping out the VM. > >I have yet to do any rigorous debugging, but I thought I would run this by >the mailing list before I do. The system is running on a Tyan Tiger LE >board with dual PIIIs (860Mhz) and 4 1GB (133Mhz) SiliconTech chips. > >I have tested Linux on this same configuration, and while it boots >normally, it will eventually panic with a similar error once you start >doing some real work. > >Any thoughts? The kernel is probably running out of the initially allocated kernel page table pages. Try upping it with 'options NKPT=64' in your kernel config file. -DG David Greenman Co-founder, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org President, TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 13: 7: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (mass.dis.org [216.240.45.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9067137B42C for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 13:06:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4LKEZ901489; Mon, 21 May 2001 13:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200105212014.f4LKEZ901489@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Jon Parise Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysctl to disable reboot In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 May 2001 12:30:44 EDT." <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:14:35 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I thought it would be useful to have a sysctl for disabling the > keyboard reboot sequence. This functionality is currently > available through the SC_DISABLE_REBOOT config option, but it's > convenient to have this capability available at runtime, too. Just edit the keymap. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 13:48:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dns1.ahaza.com (maitai.ahaza.com [209.180.220.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3C8B37B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 13:48:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twiess@ahaza.com) Received: from relay.ux.ahaza.com ([209.180.221.130]) by dns1.ahaza.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f4LKmPF71456 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 13:48:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twiess@ahaza.com) Received: from eunice.camelot.ahaza.com (eunice.camelot.ahaza.com [172.16.30.18]) by relay.ux.ahaza.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f4LKmPq42637; Mon, 21 May 2001 13:48:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twiess@ahaza.com) Received: from akira.ahaza.com ([172.16.30.230]) by eunice.camelot.ahaza.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Mon, 21 May 2001 13:45:03 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:51:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Tim Wiess X-X-Sender: To: David Greenman Cc: Subject: Re: 4GB In-Reply-To: <20010521125238.R19893@nexus.root.com> Message-ID: <20010521135017.A316-100000@akira.ahaza.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2001 20:45:03.0710 (UTC) FILETIME=[E95447E0:01C0E236] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David, That was it! Thanks for your help. tim On Mon, 21 May 2001, David Greenman wrote: > >Hello all, > >I've been experiencing some major problems running FreeBSD on 4GB of > >memory, and I was curious if anyone has experienced this before. > > > >Bascially, the problem is that FreeBSD just won't boot. Shortly after the > >kernel gains control of the system, it panics... > > > >Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > >mp_lock = 0000000b; cpuid = 0; lapic.id = 00000000 > >fault virtual address = 0xbff11000 > >fault code = supervisor write, page not present > >instruction pointer = 0x8:0xc027e48c > >stack pointer = 0x10:0xc03c4f30 > >frame pointer = 0x10:0xc03c4f3c 95 > >code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > > = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 > >processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 > >current process = Idle > >interrupt mask = net tty bio cam <- SMP: XXX > >kernel: type 12 trap, code=0 > >Stopped at 0xc027e48c: movl %edx,0xbfc00000(,%eax,4) > > > >The IP is pointing to the pmap_map() loop. So it's clearly having problems > >mapping out the VM. > > > >I have yet to do any rigorous debugging, but I thought I would run this by > >the mailing list before I do. The system is running on a Tyan Tiger LE > >board with dual PIIIs (860Mhz) and 4 1GB (133Mhz) SiliconTech chips. > > > >I have tested Linux on this same configuration, and while it boots > >normally, it will eventually panic with a similar error once you start > >doing some real work. > > > >Any thoughts? > > The kernel is probably running out of the initially allocated kernel page > table pages. Try upping it with 'options NKPT=64' in your kernel config > file. > > -DG > > David Greenman > Co-founder, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org > President, TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com > Pave the road of life with opportunities. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 13:53: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from maxim.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1566E37B42C for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 13:52:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb@gbch.net) Received: (qmail 1666 invoked by uid 1001); 22 May 2001 06:52:47 +1000 Message-ID: X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.19 02-May-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-Location: Brisbane, Australia; 27.49841S 152.98439E X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb.html X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-auug048.gif X-GPG-Fingerprint: EBB2 2A92 A79D 1533 AC00 3C46 5D83 B6FB 4B04 B7D6 X-PGP-Public-Keys: http://www.gbch.net/keys.html Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 06:52:47 +1000 From: Greg Black To: "Charles C. Figueiredo" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison References: In-reply-to: of Mon, 21 May 2001 17:10:54 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Charles C. Figueiredo" wrote: | I appoligize if this is the improper channel for this sort of | discussion, but it is in the best interests of the FreeBSD following, | atleast, within my orginization. It is the wrong place -- see the list descriptions. | Linux on Intel fits the bill because it meets these three requirements | *very* effectively. So setup some Linux boxes and let them play. If that solves your problem, just go with it. If it doesn't, then you know the problem is different and you can look into it. If it really turns out that the Linux solution works and if you want to do something to help FreeBSD do as well, then you'll have the data to make that a possibility. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 14:48:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1922837B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 14:48:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f4LLmGE34968; Mon, 21 May 2001 15:48:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200105212148.f4LLmGE34968@harmony.village.org> To: Jon Parise Subject: Re: sysctl to disable reboot Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 May 2001 12:30:44 EDT." <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> References: <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:48:16 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> Jon Parise writes: : I thought it would be useful to have a sysctl for disabling the : keyboard reboot sequence. This functionality is currently : available through the SC_DISABLE_REBOOT config option, but it's : convenient to have this capability available at runtime, too. How is this different than loading a keyboard map that doesn't have reboot/halt in them? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 15:18:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nebula.anchoragerescue.org (cable-115-7-237-24.anchorageak.net [24.237.7.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A7137B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 15:18:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akbeech@anchoragerescue.org) Received: from galaxy.anchoragerescue.org (galaxy.anchoragerescue.org [24.237.7.95]) by nebula.anchoragerescue.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 46C24111 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 14:18:49 -0800 (AKDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Beech Rintoul To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Error Code 70 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 14:18:49 -0800 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01052114184901.37620@galaxy.anchoragerescue.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm trying to do an install and I keep getting an error 70. Can someone please tell me what that is? TIA Beech -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Beech Rintoul - IT Manager - Instructor - akbeech@anchoragerescue.org /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Anchorage Gospel Rescue Mission \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | P.O. Box 230510 X - NO Word docs in e-mail | Anchorage, AK 99523-0510 / \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 15:27:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7194537B422; Mon, 21 May 2001 15:27:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 21 May 2001 23:27:04 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 23:27:04 +0100 From: David Malone To: Matt Dillon Cc: John Baldwin , hackers@FreeBSD.org, "Brian F. Feldman" Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) Message-ID: <20010521232704.A64450@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <200105211935.f4LJZHx05386@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105211935.f4LJZHx05386@earth.backplane.com>; from dillon@earth.backplane.com on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 12:35:17PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 12:35:17PM -0700, Matt Dillon wrote: > It's important to release resources as early as possible, so zombied > processes don't run the machine out of memory if a parent forgets to > reap its children. I've found one other reason for releasing resources early. For example the vrele of a zombie process' text vnode is done by the process which reaps that zombie. If you can make the vrele block then the parent will block. I've seen this happen with NFS bugs, where init has got stuck in a "vmopar" and ended up blocking forever. The machine runs out of processes relatively quickly once init can't clear up zombies. I've been using the following patch at home, which moves the vrele from wait in the parent to exit in the child. I wonder if it is worth committing? (The clearing of p_textvp is to stop ps and friends tripping up over a half free vnode - I'm not sure if it is necessary). David. Index: kern_exit.c =================================================================== RCS file: /cvs/FreeBSD-CVS/src/sys/kern/kern_exit.c,v retrieving revision 1.127 diff -u -r1.127 kern_exit.c --- kern_exit.c 2001/05/19 01:28:02 1.127 +++ kern_exit.c 2001/05/20 11:03:55 @@ -279,6 +279,15 @@ vrele(p->p_tracep); #endif /* + * Release reference to text vnode + */ + if (p->p_textvp) { + struct vnode *vp = p->p_textvp; + p->p_textvp = NULL; + vrele(vp); + } + + /* * Remove proc from allproc queue and pidhash chain. * Place onto zombproc. Unlink from parent's child list. */ @@ -517,12 +526,6 @@ * Decrement the count of procs running with this uid. */ (void)chgproccnt(p->p_cred->p_uidinfo, -1, 0); - - /* - * Release reference to text vnode - */ - if (p->p_textvp) - vrele(p->p_textvp); /* * Finally finished with old proc entry. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 15:32:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CB29237B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 15:32:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 21 May 2001 23:32:05 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 23:32:04 +0100 From: David Malone To: Warner Losh Cc: Jon Parise , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysctl to disable reboot Message-ID: <20010521233204.B64450@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> <200105212148.f4LLmGE34968@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105212148.f4LLmGE34968@harmony.village.org>; from imp@harmony.village.org on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 03:48:16PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 03:48:16PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> Jon Parise writes: > : I thought it would be useful to have a sysctl for disabling the > : keyboard reboot sequence. This functionality is currently > : available through the SC_DISABLE_REBOOT config option, but it's > : convenient to have this capability available at runtime, too. > > How is this different than loading a keyboard map that doesn't have > reboot/halt in them? Any user who can log on at a vty can remap any key to reboot the machine (try remapping "t" to reboot to annoy your firends ;-). The sysctl can only be enabeled by root, so I think it would be useful. A more useful sysctl might be one that prevented the remapping of the keyboard unless you were root. Last time this came up, someone shot down my argument on the grounds that if you have access to the console you can reboot the machine anyway. I'm not sure this holds water, 'cos having access to the keyboard and monitor isn't the same as having access to the case/power button/plug. However a second considered opinion here might be useful. David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 15:37:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (mass.dis.org [216.240.45.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A0C337B42C for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 15:37:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4LMjN903195; Mon, 21 May 2001 15:45:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200105212245.f4LMjN903195@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: David Malone Cc: Warner Losh , Jon Parise , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysctl to disable reboot In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 May 2001 23:32:04 BST." <20010521233204.B64450@walton.maths.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:45:23 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Any user who can log on at a vty can remap any key to reboot the > machine (try remapping "t" to reboot to annoy your firends ;-). > The sysctl can only be enabeled by root, so I think it would be > useful. A more useful sysctl might be one that prevented the > remapping of the keyboard unless you were root. That's a good point. A more sophisticated sysctl again would be one that would prevent the loading of a new keymap which enabled rebooting where the previous one did not. cons.keymap.protected perhaps? -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 15:38:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3093137B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 15:38:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4LMb5805135; Mon, 21 May 2001 15:37:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: ccf@master.ndi.net Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010521153705K.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 15:37:05 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 54 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: "Charles C. Figueiredo" Subject: technical comparison Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 17:10:54 -0400 (EDT) > I work in an environment consisting of 300+ systems, all FreeBSD > and Solaris, along with lots of EMC and F5 stuff. Our engineering division > has been working on a dynamic content server and search engine for the > past 2.5 years. They have consistently not met up to performance and > throughput requirements and have always blamed our use of FreeBSD for it. This is your first warning sign. This has all the appearances of a group of people who've _already_ made their conclusions and are now busily engaged in fitting the data to match. The only defense against this kind of situation is to take their data head-on. You're probably not going to get them to alter their preexisting bias since they probably have their own reasons for being Linux evangelists, but you can at least fight them to a stand-still on the comparative data front. Sinc FreeBSD is already entrenched there, that means you win the battle, at least for now. Winning the war will require that you not get complacent and continue with your objective measurements to prove (or disprove) FreeBSD's suitability for your needs. In the cases where you disprove it, at least the data is in "friendly hands" and you can open back-channel communications with us to try and address those shortcomings, whatever they may be. To take your current list: > a) A machine that has fast character operations I think that's probably more architecture (machine) dependant than it is a function of the OS. A PC does a fine job at many things, but an IBM 3090 it's not. You should probably establish "as compared to what" for this argument and see what Linux's numbers are; I suspect it will quickly become a non-issue since the beancounters won't want to spend the kind of money truly improving this would cost. > b) A *supported* Oracle client That's a gotcha, no doubt about it. About the best you can probably do here is show that the Linux Oracle client works just fine under compatibility mode and determine just how many support calls you make to Oracle with respect to their client (and not the server) software a year. > c) A filesystem that will be fast in light of tens of thousands of > files in a single directory (maybe even hundreds of thousands) I think we can more than hold our own with UFS + soft updates. This is another area where you need to get hard numbers from the Linux folks. I think your assumption that "Linux handles this effectively" is flawed and I'd like to see hard numbers which prove otherwise; you should demand no less. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 15:40:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E9C037B43C; Mon, 21 May 2001 15:40:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 21 May 2001 23:40:22 +0100 (BST) To: Mike Smith Cc: Warner Losh , Jon Parise , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysctl to disable reboot In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 May 2001 15:45:23 PDT." <200105212245.f4LMjN903195@mass.dis.org> X-Request-Do: Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 23:40:22 +0100 From: David Malone Message-ID: <200105212340.aa68173@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > That's a good point. A more sophisticated sysctl again would be one that > would prevent the loading of a new keymap which enabled rebooting where > the previous one did not. > cons.keymap.protected perhaps? I could impliment a cons.keymap.securelevel which did: 0: Anyone can change the keymap. 1: Only root can change keys with effects like reboot, panic, ... 2: Only root can make any change to the keymap. Or would that be overkill? (The name is certainly a bit silly ;-) David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 16:10:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8978937B42C for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 16:10:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4LNA5t08842; Mon, 21 May 2001 18:10:05 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:10:05 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Beech Rintoul Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Error Code 70 Message-ID: <20010521181005.B6069@dan.emsphone.com> References: <01052114184901.37620@galaxy.anchoragerescue.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.17i In-Reply-To: <01052114184901.37620@galaxy.anchoragerescue.org>; from "Beech Rintoul" on Mon May 21 14:18:49 GMT 2001 X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (May 21), Beech Rintoul said: > I'm trying to do an install and I keep getting an error 70. Can someone > please tell me what that is? Error code 70: Stale NFS file handle If you have any NFS mounts, try dismounting and remounting them. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 17:24: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mcp.csh.rit.edu (mcp.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD54137B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 17:24:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jon@csh.rit.edu) Received: from fury.csh.rit.edu (fury.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.5]) by mcp.csh.rit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89A0310B3; Mon, 21 May 2001 20:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fury.csh.rit.edu (Postfix, from userid 37404) id 05FC62E3E5; Mon, 21 May 2001 20:23:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 20:23:54 -0400 From: Jon Parise To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysctl to disable reboot Message-ID: <20010521202354.F12366@csh.rit.edu> Mail-Followup-To: Warner Losh , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> <200105212148.f4LLmGE34968@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i In-Reply-To: <200105212148.f4LLmGE34968@harmony.village.org>; from imp@harmony.village.org on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 03:48:16PM -0600 X-Operating-System: SunOS 5.8 (sun4u) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 03:48:16PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > : I thought it would be useful to have a sysctl for disabling the > : keyboard reboot sequence. This functionality is currently > : available through the SC_DISABLE_REBOOT config option, but it's > : convenient to have this capability available at runtime, too. > > How is this different than loading a keyboard map that doesn't have > reboot/halt in them? For some reason, I never considered that option. While it makes sense (in hindsight), it certainly doesn't sound like the most direct approach to solving this problem (well, it's not really a problem, but you get the idea). In addition, I prefer my approach here because it's a single, known toggle that doesn't involve messing with other parts of the system. I might just want to disable keyboard rebooting temporarily. This seems like the most intuitive way to do so. -- Jon Parise (jon@csh.rit.edu) . Rochester Inst. of Technology http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/ : Computer Science House Member To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 17:25:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mcp.csh.rit.edu (mcp.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D7DF37B424; Mon, 21 May 2001 17:25:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jon@csh.rit.edu) Received: from fury.csh.rit.edu (fury.csh.rit.edu [129.21.60.5]) by mcp.csh.rit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A461D1165; Mon, 21 May 2001 20:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fury.csh.rit.edu (Postfix, from userid 37404) id 2E1D12E3E5; Mon, 21 May 2001 20:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 20:25:46 -0400 From: Jon Parise To: David Malone Cc: Mike Smith , Warner Losh , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysctl to disable reboot Message-ID: <20010521202546.G12366@csh.rit.edu> Mail-Followup-To: David Malone , Mike Smith , Warner Losh , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200105212245.f4LMjN903195@mass.dis.org> <200105212340.aa68173@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i In-Reply-To: <200105212340.aa68173@salmon.maths.tcd.ie>; from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:40:22PM +0100 X-Operating-System: SunOS 5.8 (sun4u) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:40:22PM +0100, David Malone wrote: > I could impliment a cons.keymap.securelevel which did: > > 0: Anyone can change the keymap. > 1: Only root can change keys with effects like reboot, panic, ... > 2: Only root can make any change to the keymap. > > Or would that be overkill? (The name is certainly a bit silly ;-) It sounds useful, but it certainly adds a lot of additional granularity to the system. Whether that is a good thing is debatable, however. =) -- Jon Parise (jon@csh.rit.edu) . Rochester Inst. of Technology http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/ : Computer Science House Member To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 17:47:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E131737B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 17:47:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (billy-club.village.org [10.0.0.3]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4M0lQ653221; Mon, 21 May 2001 18:47:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by billy-club.village.org (8.11.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id f4M0kvl26687; Mon, 21 May 2001 18:46:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200105220046.f4M0kvl26687@billy-club.village.org> To: Jon Parise Subject: Re: sysctl to disable reboot Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 May 2001 20:23:54 EDT." <20010521202354.F12366@csh.rit.edu> References: <20010521202354.F12366@csh.rit.edu> <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> <200105212148.f4LLmGE34968@harmony.village.org> Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:46:57 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010521202354.F12366@csh.rit.edu> Jon Parise writes: : In addition, I prefer my approach here because it's a single, : known toggle that doesn't involve messing with other parts of the : system. I might just want to disable keyboard rebooting : temporarily. This seems like the most intuitive way to do so. Bah. I'm trying to fight feaping creaturism. I'm not worried about the most intuitive way :-). Seriously, this is unix. You need to use the right tools for the right jobs. Reboot, and a host of other things, are controlled via the keymap. Creating a keymap w/o the reboot (or other objectionable options) in it is the easiest way to deal with the problem. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 18:36: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.viasoft.com.cn (unknown [61.153.1.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4F9137B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 18:36:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsddiy@163.net) Received: from William ([192.168.1.98]) by mail.viasoft.com.cn (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02512; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:35:47 +0800 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:43:01 +0800 From: David Xu X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f) Personal Reply-To: bsddiy@163.net Organization: Viasoft X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1361646066.20010522094301@163.net> To: Jon Parise Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysctl to disable reboot In-reply-To: <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> References: <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello Jon, Tuesday, May 22, 2001, 12:30:44 AM, you wrote: JP> I thought it would be useful to have a sysctl for disabling the JP> keyboard reboot sequence. This functionality is currently JP> available through the SC_DISABLE_REBOOT config option, but it's JP> convenient to have this capability available at runtime, too. JP> I can't say I'm much of a kernel hacker, but the attached patch JP> works fine for me. It applies against 4.3-STABLE, but the same JP> logic applied to 5.0-CURRENT (which I don't have available for JP> testing). JP> Note that investigation revealed that OpenBSD has a similar JP> sysctl named machdep.kdbreset. I prefer machdep.disable_reboot_key, JP> but I'm against changing it for feel-good compatibility reasons. JP> If someone with clue feels there is merit in this, feel free to JP> commit it. I have already failed many times to persuade them to add a sysctl about keyboard reboot, they prefer to change a keymap file and allow everyone to load it into kernel. -- Gook luck, David Xu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 18:44:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [194.222.196.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4976837B422; Mon, 21 May 2001 18:44:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4M1iWk57308; Tue, 22 May 2001 02:44:32 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4M1iVb47321; Tue, 22 May 2001 02:44:31 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200105220144.f4M1iVb47321@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: David Malone Cc: Mike Smith , Warner Losh , Jon Parise , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: sysctl to disable reboot In-Reply-To: Message from David Malone of "Mon, 21 May 2001 23:40:22 BST." <200105212340.aa68173@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 02:44:31 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > That's a good point. A more sophisticated sysctl again would be one that > > would prevent the loading of a new keymap which enabled rebooting where > > the previous one did not. > > > cons.keymap.protected perhaps? > > I could impliment a cons.keymap.securelevel which did: > > 0: Anyone can change the keymap. > 1: Only root can change keys with effects like reboot, panic, ... > 2: Only root can make any change to the keymap. > > Or would that be overkill? (The name is certainly a bit silly ;-) I would have guessed that suser()ing keymap changes would be most appropriate. After all, a keymap change survives a logout and should really only be changed with care. Having said that, a malicious user with access to the keyboard can install some quite hideous root traps (a program that says login: etc etc). > David. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 20:15:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com (sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com [209.247.77.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C48A37B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 20:15:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@bluemtn.net) Received: from localhost (gordont@localhost) by sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com (8.11.3/8.11.2/BMA1.1) with ESMTP id f4M3DGT79893; Mon, 21 May 2001 20:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 20:13:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow X-X-Sender: To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: , Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010521153705K.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 21 May 2001, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > c) A filesystem that will be fast in light of tens of thousands of > > files in a single directory (maybe even hundreds of thousands) > > I think we can more than hold our own with UFS + soft updates. This > is another area where you need to get hard numbers from the Linux > folks. I think your assumption that "Linux handles this effectively" > is flawed and I'd like to see hard numbers which prove otherwise; > you should demand no less. Also point out the reliability factor here which is a bit harder to point to a magic number and "See, we *are* better!" ext2 runs async by default which can lead to nasty filesystem corruption in the event of a power loss. With softupdates, the filesystem metadata will always be in sync and uncorrupted (barring media failure of course). -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 21:11:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from saturn.cs.uml.edu (saturn.cs.uml.edu [129.63.8.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD3F37B422 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 21:11:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acahalan@saturn.cs.uml.edu) Received: (from acahalan@localhost) by saturn.cs.uml.edu (8.11.0/8.11.2) id f4M4BDX101825; Tue, 22 May 2001 00:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 00:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> From: "Albert D. Cahalan" To: ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gordon Tetlow writes: > On Mon, 21 May 2001, Jordan Hubbard wrote: >> [Charles C. Figueire] >>> c) A filesystem that will be fast in light of tens of thousands of >>> files in a single directory (maybe even hundreds of thousands) >> >> I think we can more than hold our own with UFS + soft updates. This >> is another area where you need to get hard numbers from the Linux >> folks. I think your assumption that "Linux handles this effectively" >> is flawed and I'd like to see hard numbers which prove otherwise; >> you should demand no less. > > Also point out the reliability factor here which is a bit harder to point > to a magic number and "See, we *are* better!" ext2 runs async by default > which can lead to nasty filesystem corruption in the event of a power > loss. With softupdates, the filesystem metadata will always be in sync and > uncorrupted (barring media failure of course). It should be immediately obvious that ext2 is NOT the filesystem being proposed, async or not. For large directories, ext2 sucks as bad as UFS does. This is because ext2 is a UFS clone. The proposed filesystem is most likely Reiserfs. This is a true journalling filesystem with a radically non-traditional layout. It is no problem to put millions of files in a single directory. (actually, the all-in-one approach performs better than a tree) XFS and JFS are similarly capable, but Reiserfs is well tested and part of the official Linux kernel. You can get the Reiserfs team to support you too, in case you want to bypass the normal filesystem interface for even better performance. So, no async here, and "UFS + soft updates" can't touch the performance on huge directories. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 22: 0:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8454937B424; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:00:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4M505o12021; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:00:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:00:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105220500.f4M505o12021@earth.backplane.com> To: David Malone Cc: John Baldwin , hackers@FreeBSD.org, "Brian F. Feldman" Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) References: <200105211935.f4LJZHx05386@earth.backplane.com> <20010521232704.A64450@walton.maths.tcd.ie> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 12:35:17PM -0700, Matt Dillon wrote: : :> It's important to release resources as early as possible, so zombied :> processes don't run the machine out of memory if a parent forgets to :> reap its children. : :I've found one other reason for releasing resources early. For :example the vrele of a zombie process' text vnode is done by the :process which reaps that zombie. If you can make the vrele block :then the parent will block. : :I've seen this happen with NFS bugs, where init has got stuck in :a "vmopar" and ended up blocking forever. The machine runs out of :processes relatively quickly once init can't clear up zombies. : :I've been using the following patch at home, which moves the :vrele from wait in the parent to exit in the child. I wonder :if it is worth committing? (The clearing of p_textvp is to :stop ps and friends tripping up over a half free vnode - I'm :not sure if it is necessary). : : David. That's a very good reason, and your patch looks fine. Do you want me to do a quick double-check of it and commit it to -current (and -stable a few days later) ? I think releasing the text vnode in the child is absolutely the best way to do it. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 22: 1: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF7C37B422; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:01:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4M517P12040; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:01:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:01:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105220501.f4M517P12040@earth.backplane.com> To: John Baldwin Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Ok, then why not let the current shmexit() stay in exit1() as a hack to help :free memory, but add in a check in vmspace_free() as well to catch any race :conditions that may fall through the cracks? As long as we clear the shm :pointer in struct vmspace when we free it then we won't be double free'ing, and :will always free it eventually. That is also a much simpler change. :) :Additionally, adding to the comment in exit1() clarifying that this is an :attempt to free resources as soon as possible and that the race condition is :known and that vmspace_free() is a catch-all might be nice as well. : :-- : :John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ :PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc It's not really good programming practice. Someone might trip over it later on. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 22:17:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from green.bikeshed.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B48637B424; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:17:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@green.bikeshed.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by green.bikeshed.org (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f4M5Hsl13434; Tue, 22 May 2001 01:17:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from green@green.bikeshed.org) Message-Id: <200105220517.f4M5Hsl13434@green.bikeshed.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Matt Dillon Cc: John Baldwin , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) In-Reply-To: Message from Matt Dillon of "Mon, 21 May 2001 11:20:30 PDT." <200105211820.f4LIKUs03769@earth.backplane.com> From: "Brian F. Feldman" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 01:17:53 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > :On 21-May-01 Brian F. Feldman wrote: > :> There's a certain issue that when several processes sharing a vmspace are > :> exiting at the same time, there is a race condition such that the shared > :> memory is going to be lost because the check for vm->vm_refcnt being the > :> check for the last decrement happening before the last decrement is > :> actually performed, allowing for the possibility of Giant being dropped > :> (duh, during flushing of dirty pages), and all the trouble that entails... > : > :Erm, all that is needed here is to hold the vm_mtx lock around the decrement. > :Due to the nature of reference counts, there is no race condition so long as > :everyone properly decrements the reference count by means of lock. Alfred's VM > :patch already does this. Also, Giant originally provided the lock around the > :decrement. > : > :-- > : > :John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ > > That isn't the problem. The problem is that the process can block > in between the 'if (vm->vm_refcnt == 1)' test in exit1(), and the > actual vmspace_free() in cpu_exit() (which occurs after the process > has been reaped). > > It is possible for the vm_refcnt check in exit1() to *NEVER* be 1 > if all the processes sharing the address space exit simultaniously > and block anywhere between that check and the vmspace_free(). The > result: shmexit() is never called. That's exactly the race that I was referring too, though I was too tired at the time to remember exactly when I posted the message; thanks :) -- Brian Fundakowski Feldman \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! / green@FreeBSD.org `------------------------------' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 22:32:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from green.bikeshed.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC61337B424; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:32:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from green@green.bikeshed.org) Received: from localhost (green@localhost) by green.bikeshed.org (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f4M5WGF13507; Tue, 22 May 2001 01:32:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from green@green.bikeshed.org) Message-Id: <200105220532.f4M5WGF13507@green.bikeshed.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Matt Dillon Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) In-Reply-To: Message from Matt Dillon of "Mon, 21 May 2001 11:12:05 PDT." <200105211812.f4LIC5t03635@earth.backplane.com> From: "Brian F. Feldman" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 01:32:16 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > This could explain a few bug reports I've had over the years in regards > to systems leaking swap space. Good find! > > Hmmm. May I suggest an alternative? > > * Keep the part that changes vm->vm_refcnt == 1 to > --vm->vm_refcnt == 0 when checking whether to free > the underlying resources or not. This introduces one > extra ref count decrement. > > * Instead of breaking out the vmspace freeing code or adding > any check fields, simply change the way vmspace_free() operates > so instead of checking --vm->vm_refcnt == 0, it instead checks > for vm->vm_refcnt == -1. That sounds like a perfectly good way to do it. When I was thinking of just doing that simple solution, I for some reason dismissed it immediately because I didn't like the idea of the refcnt being anything < 0. However, as a less complex solution, it should likely be fine. > Old vmspace_free() code: > > if (vm->vm_refcnt == 0) > panic(...) > > if (--vm->vm_refcnt == 0) { > ... > } > > Suggested fix (pseudo code / incomplete): > > /* > * One extra refcnt decrement occurs before freeing. The > * process that takes responsibility for releasing the > * vmspace resources decrements refcnt to 0, then the vmspace > * is further decremented when released from cpu_wait(). > */ > if (vm->vm_refcnt <= -1) > panic(...) > > if (--vm->vm_refcnt == -1) { > ... > } Well, it doesn't particularly matter on whose behalf specifically the vmspace is freed, only that it's one and only one time... As long as the access here to vm->vm_refcnt is locked (it was by Giant the last time I had looked...), I suppose this could easily be the simplest solution. It still feels a tiny bit hackish that the refcnt should go negative, but the behavior you propose seems correct. Now, just to decide if it's ncessary having a separate vmspace_exitfree() to separate the two... I don't think it should be now, but I'll need to review the current vmspace_free() callers to make sure. > You might have to make other adjustments in the codebase, since there > are a couple of other places where vm_refcnt is used > (fgrep vm_refcnt */*.c). This is only a suggestion. I have not > tested it in any way. We use a similar trick for the vnode ref count. From a casual perusal, I don't really see where this kind of behavior is implemented wrt vput()/vrele(). > I would be happy to review and test your final solution. Wunderbar =) -- Brian Fundakowski Feldman \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! / green@FreeBSD.org `------------------------------' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 21 23:52:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web5302.mail.yahoo.com (web5302.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.106.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D29837B424 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 23:52:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vishubp@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010522065244.10710.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.200.20.3] by web5302.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 22 May 2001 07:52:44 BST Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 07:52:44 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?vishwanath=20pargaonkar?= Subject: interface flags To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, i have freebsd 4.2 stable. what is difference between interface flags IFF_UP and IFF_RUNNING? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 0:15:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B78A37B42C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 00:15:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 34097 invoked by uid 1000); 22 May 2001 07:15:03 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:15:03 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: David Xu Cc: Jon Parise , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysctl to disable reboot Message-ID: <20010522101503.B30483@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: David Xu , Jon Parise , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> <1361646066.20010522094301@163.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <1361646066.20010522094301@163.net>; from bsddiy@163.net on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:43:01AM +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:43:01AM +0800, David Xu wrote: > Hello Jon, > > Tuesday, May 22, 2001, 12:30:44 AM, you wrote: > > JP> I thought it would be useful to have a sysctl for disabling the > JP> keyboard reboot sequence. This functionality is currently > JP> available through the SC_DISABLE_REBOOT config option, but it's > JP> convenient to have this capability available at runtime, too. [snip] > I have already failed many times to persuade them to add a sysctl > about keyboard reboot, they prefer to change a keymap file and allow > everyone to load it into kernel. You can always compile a keymap into the kernel, and disable loading any other keymaps. G'luck, Peter -- If I had finished this sentence, To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 1:17:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from roura.ac.upc.es (roura.ac.upc.es [147.83.33.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A025037B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 01:17:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oscar@ac.upc.es) Received: from ac.upc.es (fonoll.ac.upc.es [147.83.32.14]) by roura.ac.upc.es (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4M8Hg419389 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 10:17:42 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3B0A20A7.223237B9@ac.upc.es> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:17:43 +0200 From: Oscar-Ivan Lepe-Aldama Organization: DAC/UPC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: es, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Perfmon device Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I sent this question to freebsd-questions but haven't got any answer, yet. That is why I'm now trying here. Here is my question. I have noticed that every time the perfmon device is closed it shuts down the PMECs. While I can see this is appropriate for some applications, it is not for mine. I'm using the PMECs for measuring the performance of some in-kernel networking routines. It would be very useful for me to be able to use the perfmon device just for configuring the PMECs. But as it is distributed this is not possible. I see two solutions to this. One is to extend the device's implementation for supporting a "close without stopping" ioctl command. Because this implies knowing the details of the device's driver, and because right now I need a fast solution, I cannot do this. The other is a brute force (and naive, if you will) solution; that is, eliminate the code in perfmon_close() that shuts down the PMECs. This code seams to be at perfmon_fini(), where perfmon_stop() is called and perfmon_inuse is updated. However, I do not want to do this until I'm sure such a change is safe. So my question is, can I do such a change an still get a working device? If no, is there some other way to accomplish this? Other derived questions. Is there some other way for on-line configuring the PMECs? Any comment on the proposed extension for the device? TIA, -- ======================================================================== 0 0 0 Oscar-Ivan Lepe-Aldama | UPC-Campus Nord, DAC 0 0 0 e-mail: oscar@ac.upc.es | Modul D6, despatx 116 0 0 0 phone: +34 93 401 7187 | Jordi Girona, 1-3 U P C fax: +34 93 401 7055 | 08034 Barcelona - SPAIN WWW: http://people.ac.upc.es/homes/oscar/ ======================================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 1:22:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from segfault.kiev.ua (segfault.kiev.ua [193.193.193.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C6C37B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 01:22:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netch@iv.nn.kiev.ua) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by segfault.kiev.ua (8) with UUCP id LIN60492; Tue, 22 May 2001 11:22:09 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch@iv.nn.kiev.ua) Received: (from netch@localhost) by iv.nn.kiev.ua (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4M8M1P01088; Tue, 22 May 2001 11:22:01 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:22:01 +0300 From: Valentin Nechayev To: Warner Losh Cc: Jon Parise , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: sysctl to disable reboot Message-ID: <20010522112201.A954@iv.nn.kiev.ua> References: <20010521202354.F12366@csh.rit.edu> <20010521123044.H29180@csh.rit.edu> <200105212148.f4LLmGE34968@harmony.village.org> <20010521202354.F12366@csh.rit.edu> <200105220046.f4M0kvl26687@billy-club.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200105220046.f4M0kvl26687@billy-club.village.org>; from imp@village.org on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 06:46:57PM -0600 X-42: On Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mon, May 21, 2001 at 18:46:57, imp (Warner Losh) wrote about "Re: sysctl to disable reboot": > : In addition, I prefer my approach here because it's a single, > : known toggle that doesn't involve messing with other parts of the > : system. I might just want to disable keyboard rebooting > : temporarily. This seems like the most intuitive way to do so. > Bah. I'm trying to fight feaping creaturism. I'm not worried about > the most intuitive way :-). > Seriously, this is unix. You need to use the right tools for the > right jobs. Reboot, and a host of other things, are controlled via > the keymap. This is current situation and is more ugly and hackly than logic. Keymap is choice of user on consoles. Disabling reboot is choice of root. If you allow only root to use virtual consoles you're right. Instead, you use guillotine against headache. > Creating a keymap w/o the reboot (or other objectionable > options) in it is the easiest way to deal with the problem. This will be ugly hack, not right way. And if you prefer this way you should remove SC_DISABLE_REBOOT option to make things complete. /netch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 2:44:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from shutdown.com (adsl-151-202-29-28.nyc.adsl.bellatlantic.net [151.202.29.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D03237B43C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 02:44:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j@shutdown.com) From: "John" To: Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 04:23:47 -0700 Reply-To: "John" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010522094419.6D03237B43C@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey there, I found a great retail site with all kinds of products. Home decor, office decor, travel, outdoors, kitchen, etc... Take a look around at http://www.merchandisewholesale.com just click on the images of the product to enlarge it for a better view. Sincerely, John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 3:31: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.iside.net (ns2.iside.net [212.73.214.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6F637B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 03:31:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julien@iside.net) X-Virus-Protected-by-iSide: McAfee virus scanning engine Received: from [193.251.60.11] (HELO yoshi) by mail.iside.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.2) with SMTP id 3518557; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:25:54 +0200 Message-ID: <002001c0e2aa$cf2bdd50$662d44c3@yoshi> From: "julien" To: , "cristophe baillon" Subject: mylex raid card problem on 4.2-stable Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:34:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, We have a quite disapointing problem with a mylex 170 card, which causes a system crash every 6 hours. This card is installed in a VA Linux 2240 with 4 18GB drives, configured in a single RAID 5 pack, running a FreeBSD 4.2-stable system. We have to notice that this system ran during 4 months without any problem, and that we have many other servers running this configuration without any kind of problem. The kernel output says : mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 failed mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 ok mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 failed mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 ok This message is repeated every 30 seconds and, after arround 3 hours, the server hangs. Sometimes, we've got this one : mly0 : Got AM completion for nonbusy Slot 0 Generally, the server runs during 3 hours without messages, then 3 hours with the message "mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 failed (...)" For a test purpose, we tried to "hot extract" one of the drives, and we plugged it in again. Then, the card rebuilt the pack, and the system ran without problems during 15 days. Finaly, the problem comes back again with the same messages. Any kind of help would be very appreciated. Thanx -- ------------------------------- --> julien@iside.net ------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 4: 0:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5CE37B424 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 04:00:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (pool0077.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.192.77]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA05502; Tue, 22 May 2001 07:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B0A46CF.9D0CB622@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 04:00:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wilko Bulte Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -R for make update ? References: <20010521194828.A789@freebie.demon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wilko Bulte wrote: > > Hi > > Is there any specific reason why one needs to be able to > write a lock to the CVS repo when running 'make update' > to get a freshly checked out source? Yeah: you aren't running your CVS server in "pserver" mode, and so are trying to do a lock, either in your local copy, or over NFS. If you run your repository in pserver mode, the CVS server will be connected to over the network, instead of attacking your CVS repo directly, and you won't have the problem you are seeing, since the cvs server will be able to get the lock, no problem. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 4:48:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7788537B422; Tue, 22 May 2001 04:48:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4MBmeG58573; Tue, 22 May 2001 04:48:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200105220501.f4M517P12040@earth.backplane.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 04:48:39 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Matt Dillon Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, "Brian F. Feldman" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-May-01 Matt Dillon wrote: >:Ok, then why not let the current shmexit() stay in exit1() as a hack to help >:free memory, but add in a check in vmspace_free() as well to catch any race >:conditions that may fall through the cracks? As long as we clear the shm >:pointer in struct vmspace when we free it then we won't be double free'ing, >:and >:will always free it eventually. That is also a much simpler change. :) >:Additionally, adding to the comment in exit1() clarifying that this is an >:attempt to free resources as soon as possible and that the race condition is >:known and that vmspace_free() is a catch-all might be nice as well. >: >:-- >: >:John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ >:PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc > > It's not really good programming practice. Someone might trip over > it later on. Then the vmspace free()ing is also bad programming practice? It's the same exact algorithm used for the vmspace. > -Matt -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 5:44:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmonster.de (datasink.webmonster.de [194.162.162.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 340DB37B424 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 05:44:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karsten@rohrbach.de) Received: (qmail 93609 invoked by uid 1000); 22 May 2001 12:44:30 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:44:30 +0200 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: what is a good toolkit for multitarget documentation? Message-ID: <20010522144430.Q88529@mail.webmonster.de> Mail-Followup-To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-URL: http://www.webmonster.de/ X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hey folks, i am currently evaluating different styles of implementing documentation for some multiplatform software stuff. first i though about html only docs, but this is not sufficient. then i thought about tex docs but this wont work out either. the idea is to have a single 'master repo' style document tree that can be used to dump out - html all-in-one-file and chapters - tex for pretty printing and pdf output - man pages - README, CHANGES and auxiliary documentation text files is sgml/docbook the way to go? i've seen that the freebsd handbook and other documents obviously are written using the docbook dtd, but i cannot find any pointers what software are involved in creating readable documents. i actually found a short editor/opensp/jadetex/tex howto but this would just replace the main functionality of latex, and that's not what i want. i guess my tex speaking skills are better than sgml ;-) as this seems to be arbitrary complicated, depending on the parsers and filters used, is there a) a simpler way of doing this? b) a recommended, standard, way? another question is, if it is possible to 'fold' certain paragraphs or whole chapters based on the assumption that we generate one handbook for beginners and a slightly different one for advanced users and one with source code snippets -- or even whole source files with annotations -- for developers. thx in advance! cheers, /k -- > Worry is interest paid before a debt is due. KR433/KR11-RIPE -- WebMonster Community Founder -- nGENn GmbH Senior Techie http://www.webmonster.de/ -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de/ -- http://www.ngenn.net/ karsten&rohrbach.de -- alpha&ngenn.net -- alpha&scene.org -- catch@spam.de GnuPG 0x2964BF46 2001-03-15 42F9 9FFF 50D4 2F38 DBEE DF22 3340 4F4E 2964 BF46 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 5:52:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmonster.de (datasink.webmonster.de [194.162.162.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F16937B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 05:52:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karsten@rohrbach.de) Received: (qmail 93893 invoked by uid 1000); 22 May 2001 12:53:02 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:53:02 +0200 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: ccf@master.ndi.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010522145302.R88529@mail.webmonster.de> Mail-Followup-To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , Jordan Hubbard , ccf@master.ndi.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010521153705K.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010521153705K.jkh@osd.bsdi.com>; from jkh@osd.bsdi.com on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 03:37:05PM -0700 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-URL: http://www.webmonster.de/ X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan Hubbard(jkh@osd.bsdi.com)@2001.05.21 15:37:05 +0000: > > c) A filesystem that will be fast in light of tens of thousands of > > files in a single directory (maybe even hundreds of thousands) > > I think we can more than hold our own with UFS + soft updates. This > is another area where you need to get hard numbers from the Linux > folks. I think your assumption that "Linux handles this effectively" > is flawed and I'd like to see hard numbers which prove otherwise; > you should demand no less. i think, based on the number of files per directory, that they reference reiserfs as theri filesystem -- which i would not use for mission critical storage. on toasters, it's fast as hell, but for real data storage i would stick to ufs+softupdates since this turned out to be the most stable solution i had my hands on in the last years. linux evangelists keep telling the public that reiserfs actually would be a production quality fs and this is simply not true, IMVHO. /k -- > An open mind, like an open mouth, does have a purpose: and that is, to > close it upon something solid. Otherwise, it could end up like a city > sewer, rejecting nothing. --G. K. Chesterton KR433/KR11-RIPE -- WebMonster Community Founder -- nGENn GmbH Senior Techie http://www.webmonster.de/ -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de/ -- http://www.ngenn.net/ karsten&rohrbach.de -- alpha&ngenn.net -- alpha&scene.org -- catch@spam.de GnuPG 0x2964BF46 2001-03-15 42F9 9FFF 50D4 2F38 DBEE DF22 3340 4F4E 2964 BF46 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 6:32:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C4AA37B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 06:32:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10286; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19190; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dhcp-105-164.mitre.org (128.29.105.164) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 6554965; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:31:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3B0A6A36.5E8EF98C@mitre.org> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:31:34 -0400 From: Jason Andresen Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-20000818M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Albert D. Cahalan" Cc: ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Albert D. Cahalan" wrote: > It should be immediately obvious that ext2 is NOT the filesystem > being proposed, async or not. For large directories, ext2 sucks > as bad as UFS does. This is because ext2 is a UFS clone. > > The proposed filesystem is most likely Reiserfs. This is a true > journalling filesystem with a radically non-traditional layout. > It is no problem to put millions of files in a single directory. > (actually, the all-in-one approach performs better than a tree) > > XFS and JFS are similarly capable, but Reiserfs is well tested > and part of the official Linux kernel. You can get the Reiserfs > team to support you too, in case you want to bypass the normal > filesystem interface for even better performance. Er, I don't think ReiserFS is in the Linux kernel yet, although it is the default filesystem on some distros apparently. I think Linus has some reservations about the stability of the filesystem since it is fairly new. That said, it would be hard to be much worse than Ext2fs with write cacheing enabled (default!) in the event of power failure. We only have three Linux boxes here (and one is a PC104 with a flash disk) and already I've had to reinstall the entire OS once when we had a power glitch. ext2fsck managed to destroy about 1/3 of the files on the system, in a pretty much random manner (the lib and etc were hit hard). Heck, the system didn't even try to boot when it came back, I had to pull out the rescue disk and run fsck from there. Good thing the rescue disk was the same as the install disk, it saved me a disk swap. :( If only FreeBSD could boot from those funky M-Systems flash disks. > So, no async here, and "UFS + soft updates" can't touch the > performance on huge directories. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 6:50:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from list.framfab.se (list.framfab.se [195.54.96.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD7037B424 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 06:50:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marten.wikstrom@erda.se) Received: from stoent001.framfab.se (mail.sto.framfab.se [157.125.1.71]) by list.framfab.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21163; Tue, 22 May 2001 15:41:35 +0200 Received: by stoent001.framfab.se with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 22 May 2001 15:49:50 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E5rten_Wikstr=F6m?= To: "'vishwanath pargaonkar '" Cc: "'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG '" Subject: RE: interface flags Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:49:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As it says in sys/net/if.h, IFF_RUNNING means "resources allocated" and IFF_UP means "interface is up". As I interpret this, the difference is = that IFF_RUNNING is set when the interface is initialised and indicates that = it is ready to be used. IFF_UP on the other hand is set by the user to = indicate whether this interface is enabled or not. I.e. IFF_RUNNING set by = system, IFF_UP set by user. This however, doesn't seem to be the case in all = drivers though. I would be very pleased if someone could clarify the issue = further. Please correct me if I'm totally wrong! regards M=E5rten Wikstr=F6m -----Original Message----- From: vishwanath pargaonkar To: freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sent: 5/22/01 8:52 AM Subject: interface flags Hi, i have freebsd 4.2 stable. what is difference between interface flags IFF_UP and IFF_RUNNING?=20 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 8:16:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9CC837B42C; Tue, 22 May 2001 08:16:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from [62.49.251.130] (helo=herring.nlsystems.com) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 152Dtc-0000Aq-0X; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:16:28 +0100 Received: from herring (herring [10.0.0.2]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4MFFC746207; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:15:12 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:15:12 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD/powerpc work to date In-Reply-To: <20010521234812.B56326@rafe.jeamland.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 21 May 2001, Benno Rice wrote: > Please feel free to review, comment, etc. > > The snapshot is in the form of a diff against -CURRENT and a tar.gz file > containing new files that would need to be committed. Both of these > files are rooted in src/sys. Nice! Reading through the changes, I have a couple of comments. In mp_machdep.c, you should remove the 'include ' - that is only ever likely to exist on alpha. You can alsp delete ipl.h since that has been removed for the other arches. In swtch.s, you are correct in thinking that Idle is unneeded. A generic assembler question - why the use of _C_LABEL(xx)? Surely since we are only ever going to be using ELF here, we can assume the format of C names? Its difficult to see what is happening since I'm not familiar with powerpc assembler but it appears that you are saving the process state on the stack (using a 'struct switchframe'). The other architectures save this information in the PCB - I'm not sure which is the best place. I notice that pmap.c contains a mix of programming styles with some of the code using ANSI and some K&R. The trend seems to be to move to ANSI for all new code so its probably worth converting the rest of the file. How far does the beast get when booting? -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Phone: +44 20 8348 6160 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 8:19:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from asdf.dk (chewbacca.netgroup.dk [195.41.198.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3708437B42C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 08:19:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hroi@asdf.dk) Received: (from hroi@localhost) by asdf.dk (8.11.3/8.9.3) id f4MFJiq67587 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:19:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from hroi) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:19:44 +0200 From: Hroi Sigurdsson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010522171944.A67485@asdf.dk> References: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0A6A36.5E8EF98C@mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B0A6A36.5E8EF98C@mitre.org>; from jandrese@mitre.org on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:31:34AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [trimming CCs] On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:31:34AM -0400, Jason Andresen wrote: > Er, I don't think ReiserFS is in the Linux kernel yet, although it is > the default filesystem on some distros apparently. I think Linus has > some reservations about the stability of the filesystem since it is > fairly new. It is in now AFAIK. > That said, it would be hard to be much worse than Ext2fs > with write cacheing enabled (default!) in the event of power failure. > We only have three Linux boxes here (and one is a PC104 with a flash > disk) and already I've had to reinstall the entire OS once when we had a > power glitch. ext2fsck managed to destroy about 1/3 of the files on the > system, in a pretty much random manner (the lib and etc were hit hard). > Heck, the system didn't even try to boot when it came back, I had to > pull FWIW, I lost two filesystems last week. One ext2 and the second reiser and no crashes/power failures were involved. The ext2 failure meant a complete reinstall (only 4-5 files where left in / after fsck). A reiser filesystem started giving input/output errors and could not be repaired with reiserfsck. Trying to back up the file system before a repair only resulted in kernel panics. -- Hroi Sigurdsson hroi@netgroup.dk Netgroup A/S http://www.netgroup.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 9: 5: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A496F37B43C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11954; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20373; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dhcp-105-164.mitre.org (128.29.105.164) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 6558247; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:03:22 -0400 Message-ID: <3B0A8DD5.9A38449B@mitre.org> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:03:33 -0400 From: Jason Andresen Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-20000818M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Albert D. Cahalan" Cc: ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Albert D. Cahalan" wrote: > > Gordon Tetlow writes: > > On Mon, 21 May 2001, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > >> [Charles C. Figueire] > > >>> c) A filesystem that will be fast in light of tens of thousands of > >>> files in a single directory (maybe even hundreds of thousands) > >> > >> I think we can more than hold our own with UFS + soft updates. This > >> is another area where you need to get hard numbers from the Linux > >> folks. I think your assumption that "Linux handles this effectively" > >> is flawed and I'd like to see hard numbers which prove otherwise; > >> you should demand no less. > > > > Also point out the reliability factor here which is a bit harder to point > > to a magic number and "See, we *are* better!" ext2 runs async by default > > which can lead to nasty filesystem corruption in the event of a power > > loss. With softupdates, the filesystem metadata will always be in sync and > > uncorrupted (barring media failure of course). > > It should be immediately obvious that ext2 is NOT the filesystem > being proposed, async or not. For large directories, ext2 sucks > as bad as UFS does. This is because ext2 is a UFS clone. > > The proposed filesystem is most likely Reiserfs. This is a true > journalling filesystem with a radically non-traditional layout. > It is no problem to put millions of files in a single directory. > (actually, the all-in-one approach performs better than a tree) > > XFS and JFS are similarly capable, but Reiserfs is well tested > and part of the official Linux kernel. You can get the Reiserfs > team to support you too, in case you want to bypass the normal > filesystem interface for even better performance. > > So, no async here, and "UFS + soft updates" can't touch the > performance on huge directories. Unfortunatly I don't have a ReiserFS partition available to test with, but I do have UFS and ext2fs partitions. Here's the results I got from postmark, which seems to be the closest match to the original problem in the entire ports tree. Test setup: Two machines with the same make and model hardware, one running FreeBSD 4.0, the other running RedHat Linux 7.0. The data: Hardware: Both machines have the same hardware on paper (although it is TWO machines, YMMV). PII-300 Intel PIIX4 ATA33 controller IBM-DHEA-38451 8063MB ata0-master using UDMA33 HD Note: all variables are left at default unless mentioned. 10000 transactions, 500 files. FreeBSD 4.0 +Softupdates, write cache disabled: Time: 35 seconds total 34 seconds of transactions (294 per second) Files: 5513 created (157 per second) Creation alone: 500 files (500 per second) Mixed with transactions: 5013 files (147 per second) 4917 read (144 per second) 5016 appended (147 per second) 5513 deleted (157 per second) Deletion alone: 526 files (526 per second) Mixed with transactions: 4987 files (146 per second) Data: 31.27 megabytes read (893.48 kilobytes per second) 34.71 megabytes written (991.70 kilobytes per second) Linux 2.2.16 ext2fs and write caching enabled Time: 28 seconds total 28 seconds of transactions (357 per second) Files: 5513 created (196 per second) Creation alone: 500 files (500 per second) Mixed with transactions: 5013 files (179 per second) 4917 read (175 per second) 5016 appended (179 per second) 5513 deleted (196 per second) Deletion alone: 526 files (526 per second) Mixed with transactions: 4987 files (178 per second) Data: 31.27 megabytes read (1.12 megabytes per second) 34.71 megabytes written (1.24 megabytes per second) 10000 transactions, 30000 files: FreeBSD 4.0 +softupdates, write cache disabled: Time: 640 seconds total 410 seconds of transactions (24 per second) Files: 34993 created (54 per second) Creation alone: 30000 files (146 per second) Mixed with transactions: 4993 files (12 per second) 5055 read (12 per second) 4944 appended (12 per second) 34993 deleted (54 per second) Deletion alone: 29986 files (1199 per second) Mixed with transactions: 5007 files (12 per second) Data: 25.62 megabytes read (40.03 kilobytes per second) 179.79 megabytes written (280.92 kilobytes per second) Linux 2.2.16 ext2fs with write caching enabled Time: 1009 seconds total 612 seconds of transactions (16 per second) Files: 34993 created (34 per second) Creation alone: 30000 files (83 per second) Mixed with transactions: 4993 files (8 per second) 5055 read (8 per second) 4944 appended (8 per second) 34993 deleted (34 per second) Deletion alone: 29986 files (768 per second) Mixed with transactions: 5007 files (8 per second) Data: 25.62 megabytes read (25.39 kilobytes per second) 179.79 megabytes written (178.19 kilobytes per second) 10000 transactions, 60000 files FreeBSD 4.0 with Softupdates, write cache disabled Time: 1259 seconds total 495 seconds of transactions (20 per second) Files: 65065 created (51 per second) Creation alone: 60000 files (87 per second) Mixed with transactions: 5065 files (10 per second) 5078 read (10 per second) 4921 appended (9 per second) 65065 deleted (51 per second) Deletion alone: 60130 files (761 per second) Mixed with transactions: 4935 files (9 per second) Data: 26.01 megabytes read (20.66 kilobytes per second) 325.12 megabytes written (258.24 kilobytes per second) Linux 2.2.16 with ext2fs and write cache enabled Time: 1032 seconds total 578 seconds of transactions (17 per second) Files: 34993 created (33 per second) Creation alone: 30000 files (76 per second) Mixed with transactions: 4993 files (8 per second) 5055 read (8 per second) 4944 appended (8 per second) 34993 deleted (33 per second) Deletion alone: 29986 files (499 per second) Mixed with transactions: 5007 files (8 per second) Data: 25.62 megabytes read (24.83 kilobytes per second) 179.79 megabytes written (174.21 kilobytes per second) Results: ufs+softupdates is a little slower than ext2fs+wc for low numbers of files, but scales better. I wish I had a Reiserfs partition to test with. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 9:10:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CCE537B42C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:10:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13023; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21458; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dhcp-105-164.mitre.org (128.29.105.164) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 6558331; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:08:56 -0400 Message-ID: <3B0A8F23.F47DCCEB@mitre.org> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:09:07 -0400 From: Jason Andresen Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-20000818M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0A8DD5.9A38449B@mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Andresen wrote: Oops, I fubbed up the linux at 60000 files test, I'm rerunning it now, but it will take a while to finish. > Results: > ufs+softupdates is a little slower than ext2fs+wc for low numbers of > files, but scales better. I wish I had a Reiserfs partition to > test with. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 9:34:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sj-msg-core-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-core-3.cisco.com [171.70.157.152]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2627137B43C; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:34:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah@cisco.com) Received: from bmah-freebsd-0.cisco.com (bmah-freebsd-0.cisco.com [171.70.84.42]) by sj-msg-core-3.cisco.com (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f4MGX3c03824; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmah@localhost) by bmah-freebsd-0.cisco.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MGYWa60632; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:34:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah) Message-Id: <200105221634.f4MGYWa60632@bmah-freebsd-0.cisco.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.4 05/15/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: what is a good toolkit for multitarget documentation? In-Reply-To: <20010522144430.Q88529@mail.webmonster.de> References: <20010522144430.Q88529@mail.webmonster.de> Comments: In-reply-to "Karsten W. Rohrbach" message dated "Tue, 22 May 2001 14:44:30 +0200." From: "Bruce A. Mah" Reply-To: bmah@FreeBSD.ORG X-Face: g~c`.{#4q0"(V*b#g[i~rXgm*w;:nMfz%_RZLma)UgGN&=j`5vXoU^@n5v4:OO)c["!w)nD/!!~e4Sj7LiT'6*wZ83454H""lb{CC%T37O!!'S$S&D}sem7I[A 2V%N&+ X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_-124994816P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:34:32 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --==_Exmh_-124994816P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If memory serves me right, "Karsten W. Rohrbach" wrote: > i am currently evaluating different styles of implementing documentation > for some multiplatform software stuff. first i though about html only > docs, but this is not sufficient. then i thought about tex docs but this > wont work out either. > > the idea is to have a single 'master repo' style document tree that can > be used to dump out > - html all-in-one-file and chapters > - tex for pretty printing and pdf output > - man pages > - README, CHANGES and auxiliary documentation text files > > is sgml/docbook the way to go? i've seen that the freebsd handbook and > other documents obviously are written using the docbook dtd, but i > cannot find any pointers what software are involved in creating readable > documents. SGML and DocBook are *one* way to go to do this. It's pretty easy to do HTML, by-chapters HTML, PDF, PS, text, and a few other formats. You can build multiple renderings of a document (such as the Handbook) like this: % cd /usr/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/books/handbook % make 'FORMATS=html pdf txt' Yes, it's kind of complicated. Fortunately the FreeBSD Documentation Project infrastructure makes a lot of the pain go away. I'd browse around through the FreeBSD Documentation Project Primer for New Contributors, which is available at, among other places: http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/docproj-primer/index.html Also look through the doc/ tree a little bit, in particular the Makefiles (look through some of the articles; they tend to be less complicated than the books). Note that if you have the doc/ tree and the textproc/ docproj meta-port installed, you can use a lot of the common Makefile stuff and you don't need to worry about the exact mechanics of how SGML gets turned into, for example, PDF. I'm working on a paper right now which has nothing to do with FreeBSD, but it uses a lot of the Makefile infrastructure from the FDP. Obviously this means I'd have some problems building on non-FreeBSD machines, but I don't consider that to be a huge problem at the moment. > another question is, if it is possible to 'fold' certain paragraphs or > whole chapters based on the assumption that we generate one handbook for > beginners and a slightly different one for advanced users and one with > source code snippets -- or even whole source files with annotations -- > for developers. Yes, you can do this in a couple of ways. One way is to do some conditional inclusion of text using SGML entities (see the section on using "INCLUDE" and "IGNORE" in marked sections in the FDP Primer...the copy I have shows it in section 3.8.1.2). Another way (which requires some stylesheet hacking) is to add some attribute support. RELNOTESng for -CURRENT does this for release note items that pertain only to specific architectures. I started this with marked sections as above, but decided to use attributes because we'll need its greater flexibility later. Hope this helps, Bruce. --==_Exmh_-124994816P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.3.1+ 05/14/2001 iD8DBQE7CpUY2MoxcVugUsMRAuMCAJ4txFr2e1Wn8V3FaYQP7frHJDv2cwCcCvFY eoTK1ylHdiMe0SQi4sIkyL4= =QXkV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_-124994816P-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 9:45:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06BD737B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:45:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20085; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28133; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dhcp-105-164.mitre.org (128.29.105.164) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 6558932; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:44:21 -0400 Message-ID: <3B0A9770.AC2450DD@mitre.org> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:44:32 -0400 From: Jason Andresen Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-20000818M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0A8DD5.9A38449B@mitre.org> <3B0A8F23.F47DCCEB@mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Andresen wrote: > > Jason Andresen wrote: > > Oops, I fubbed up the linux at 60000 files test, I'm rerunning it now, > but it will take a while to finish. > > > Results: > > ufs+softupdates is a little slower than ext2fs+wc for low numbers of > > files, but scales better. I wish I had a Reiserfs partition to > > test with. The test is done: Linux 2.2.16 with ext2fs and write caching 10000 transactions, 60000 simultanious files: Time: 2084 seconds total 702 seconds of transactions (14 per second) Files: 65065 created (31 per second) Creation alone: 60000 files (48 per second) Mixed with transactions: 5065 files (7 per second) 5078 read (7 per second) 4921 appended (7 per second) 65065 deleted (31 per second) Deletion alone: 60130 files (395 per second) Mixed with transactions: 4935 files (7 per second) Data: 26.01 megabytes read (12.48 kilobytes per second) 325.12 megabytes written (156.01 kilobytes per second) I don't suppose anybody has a FreeBSD and Linux box dual booting (or identically speced) with ReiserFS anywhere? I'm quite curious how much faster ReiserFS is in these tests. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 9:54:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.interactivate.com (mail.interactivate.com [63.141.73.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28AE137B424 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:54:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from larry@mail.interactivate.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by mail.interactivate.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f4MHM8O75154; Tue, 22 May 2001 10:22:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from larry@mail.interactivate.com) Received: from CX408168-A.mail.interactivate.com (cx408168-a.escnd1.sdca.home.com [24.15.133.36]) by mail.interactivate.com (8.11.1/8.11.1av) with ESMTP id f4MHM0k75145; Tue, 22 May 2001 10:22:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from larry@mail.interactivate.com) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010522095118.00a6c768@mail.interactivate.com> X-Sender: larry@mail.interactivate.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:52:41 -0700 To: "julien" , , "cristophe baillon" From: Lawrence Sica` Subject: Re: mylex raid card problem on 4.2-stable In-Reply-To: <002001c0e2aa$cf2bdd50$662d44c3@yoshi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-10 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:34 PM 5/22/2001 +0200, julien wrote: >Hi all, > >We have a quite disapointing problem with a mylex 170 card, which causes >a system crash every 6 hours. >This card is installed in a VA Linux 2240 with 4 18GB drives, configured >in a single RAID 5 pack, running a FreeBSD 4.2-stable system. >We have to notice that this system ran during 4 months without any >problem, and that we have many other servers running this configuration >without any kind of problem. > >The kernel output says : >mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 failed >mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 ok >mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 failed >mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 ok I don't know much about the mylex cards but have you checked the temp sensor in the enclosure it mentions? Have you checked to see if maybe it's faulty or something? --Larry Lawrence Sica ------------------------------------------------------------- Systems Administrator - Interactivate, Inc. larry@interactivate.com http://www.interactivate.com -------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 10: 3:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [62.4.20.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE8337B43C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 10:03:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@tara.freenix.org) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id A95F11FB; Tue, 22 May 2001 19:02:55 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:02:55 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ppp problems on 4.3-RELEASE and PPPoE Message-ID: <20010522190255.A11683@tara.freenix.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200105211232.f4LCWDb22768@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105211232.f4LCWDb22768@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org>; from brian@Awfulhak.org on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 01:32:13PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT K6-3D/266 & 2x PPro/200 SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Brian Somers: > If pppctl is still working (ppp will talk to it), then it may be > worth seeing what ``show physical'' and ``show timer'' say (is the > link open, or is ppp waiting for something to happen via a timeout?). Locked again with a pppctl attached. show timer -=-=- IPCP throughput timer[0x80a37d8]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.00s, state = running physical throughput timer[0x80af068]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.90s, state = running hdlc timer[0x80b1d84]: freq = 60.00s, next = 22.90s, state = running -=-=- show physical -=-=- Name: deflink State: open (established) Device: PPPoE:ed0: Link Type: background Connect Count: 1 Queued Packets: 0 Phone Number: N/A Defaults: Device List: "PPPoE:ed0:" Characteristics: sync, cs8, no parity, CTS/RTS on CD check delay: device specific Connect time: 24:08:11 14864337 octets in, 8655370 octets out 56740 packets in, 56238 packets out overall 270 bytes/sec currently 0 bytes/sec in, 0 bytes/sec out (over the last 5 secs) peak 70148 bytes/sec on Mon May 21 20:02:16 2001 -=-=- show lcp -=-=- PPP ON keltia> show lcp deflink: LCP [Opened] his side: MRU 1492, ACCMAP ffffffff, PROTOCOMP off, ACFCOMP off, MAGIC 6317ffaa, MRRU 0, SHORTSEQ off, REJECT 0000 my side: MRU 1500, ACCMAP 00000000, PROTOCOMP off, ACFCOMP off, MAGIC 0c7a6a1f, MRRU 0, SHORTSEQ on, REJECT 0000 Defaults: MRU = 1492, ACCMAP = 00000000 LQR period = 30s, Open Mode = active (delay 1s) FSM retry = 3s, max 5 Config REQs, 5 Term REQs Ident: Negotiation: ACFCOMP = disabled & denied CHAP = disabled & accepted CHAP80 = disabled & accepted LANMan = disabled & accepted CHAP81 = disabled & accepted LQR = disabled & denied PAP = disabled & accepted PROTOCOMP = disabled & accepted -=-=- -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 10: 9:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.iside.net (ns2.iside.net [212.73.214.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 091A937B424 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julien@iside.net) X-Virus-Protected-by-iSide: McAfee virus scanning engine Received: from [193.251.60.11] (HELO yoshi) by mail.iside.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.2) with SMTP id 3520193; Tue, 22 May 2001 19:04:18 +0200 Message-ID: <018201c0e2e2$75a94e10$662d44c3@yoshi> From: "julien" To: "Lawrence Sica`" , References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010522095118.00a6c768@mail.interactivate.com> Subject: Re: mylex raid card problem on 4.2-stable Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:13:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_017F_01C0E2F3.387DE940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_017F_01C0E2F3.387DE940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, In fact, I don't really believe in a hardware problem like a false = contact on a temp sensor. I also noticed that a boot time, it stays blocked at "waiting 15s for = scsi device to settle" during arround 10 min what would indicate that = it's more an OS / driver problem. In my previous mail, I indicated that it runs under 4.2-stable, in fact = it was 4.2-release. I updated the system to 4.3-rc2, which has a mly = driver code 5 month older (2001-03) than on 4.2-release (2000-10). I'm = waiting to see what will happen. thanx for your help -- ------------------------------- --> julien@iside.net ------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Lawrence Sica`" To: "julien" ; ; = "cristophe baillon" Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:52 PM Subject: Re: mylex raid card problem on 4.2-stable > At 12:34 PM 5/22/2001 +0200, julien wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >We have a quite disapointing problem with a mylex 170 card, which = causes > >a system crash every 6 hours. > >This card is installed in a VA Linux 2240 with 4 18GB drives, = configured > >in a single RAID 5 pack, running a FreeBSD 4.2-stable system. > >We have to notice that this system ran during 4 months without any > >problem, and that we have many other servers running this = configuration > >without any kind of problem. > > > >The kernel output says : > >mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 failed > >mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 ok > >mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 failed > >mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 ok >=20 > I don't know much about the mylex cards but have you checked the temp=20 > sensor in the enclosure it mentions? Have you checked to see if maybe = it's=20 > faulty or something? >=20 >=20 > --Larry >=20 > Lawrence Sica > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Systems Administrator - Interactivate, Inc. > larry@interactivate.com > http://www.interactivate.com > -------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_017F_01C0E2F3.387DE940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
In fact, I don't really believe in a = hardware=20 problem like a false contact on a temp sensor.
I also noticed that a boot time, = it stays=20 blocked at "waiting 15s for scsi device to settle" during arround 10 min = what=20 would indicate that it's more an OS / driver problem.
In my previous mail, I indicated that = it runs under=20 4.2-stable, in fact it was 4.2-release. I updated the system to = 4.3-rc2,=20 which has a mly driver code 5 month older (2001-03) than on 4.2-release=20 (2000-10). I'm waiting to see what will happen.
 
thanx for your help
 
--
-------------------------------
-->=20 julien@iside.net
-------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Sica`" <larry@mail.interactivate.com>
To: "julien" <julien@iside.net>; = <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>;=20 "cristophe baillon" <cb@iside.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:52 = PM
Subject: Re: mylex raid card problem on = 4.2-stable

> At 12:34 PM 5/22/2001 = +0200, julien=20 wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >We have a quite = disapointing=20 problem with a mylex 170 card, which causes
> >a system crash = every 6=20 hours.
> >This card is installed in a VA Linux 2240 with 4 18GB = drives,=20 configured
> >in a single RAID 5 pack, running a FreeBSD = 4.2-stable=20 system.
> >We have to notice that this system ran during 4 = months=20 without any
> >problem, and that we have many other servers = running=20 this configuration
> >without any kind of problem.
> = >
>=20 >The kernel output says :
> >mly0: enclosure 1 temperature = sensor 0=20 failed
> >mly0: enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 ok
> = >mly0:=20 enclosure 1 temperature sensor 0 failed
> >mly0: enclosure 1=20 temperature sensor 0 ok
>
> I don't know much about the = mylex cards=20 but have you checked the temp
> sensor in the enclosure it=20 mentions?  Have you checked to see if maybe it's
> faulty or = something?
>
>
> --Larry
>
> Lawrence=20 Sica
>=20 -------------------------------------------------------------
> = Systems=20 Administrator - Interactivate, Inc.
> larry@interactivate.com
>=20 http://www.interactivate.com
>=20 --------------------------------------------------------------
> =
>=20
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with=20 "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
>=20 ------=_NextPart_000_017F_01C0E2F3.387DE940-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 10:57:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B7937B43C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 10:57:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28590 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 10:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAh8aOq3; Tue May 22 10:57:02 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA04959 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 22 May 2001 10:58:34 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200105221758.KAA04959@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: technical comparison To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:58:34 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ] I work in an environment consisting of 300+ systems, all FreeBSD ] and Solaris, along with lots of EMC and F5 stuff. Our engineering division ] has been working on a dynamic content server and search engine for the ] past 2.5 years. They have consistently not met up to performance and ] throughput requirements and have always blamed our use of FreeBSD for it. You may wish to point out to them that their F5 boxes are running FreeBSD. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 11:16:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from saturn.cs.uml.edu (saturn.cs.uml.edu [129.63.8.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5AE737B424 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 11:16:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acahalan@saturn.cs.uml.edu) Received: (from acahalan@localhost) by saturn.cs.uml.edu (8.11.0/8.11.2) id f4MIGK1171051; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:16:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Albert D. Cahalan" Message-Id: <200105221816.f4MIGK1171051@saturn.cs.uml.edu> Subject: Re: technical comparison To: jandrese@mitre.org (Jason Andresen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:16:20 -0400 (EDT) Cc: acahalan@cs.uml.edu (Albert D. Cahalan), ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3B0A6A36.5E8EF98C@mitre.org> from "Jason Andresen" at May 22, 2001 09:31:34 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Andresen writes: > "Albert D. Cahalan" wrote: >> It should be immediately obvious that ext2 is NOT the filesystem >> being proposed, async or not. For large directories, ext2 sucks >> as bad as UFS does. This is because ext2 is a UFS clone. >> >> The proposed filesystem is most likely Reiserfs. This is a true >> journalling filesystem with a radically non-traditional layout. >> It is no problem to put millions of files in a single directory. >> (actually, the all-in-one approach performs better than a tree) >> >> XFS and JFS are similarly capable, but Reiserfs is well tested >> and part of the official Linux kernel. You can get the Reiserfs >> team to support you too, in case you want to bypass the normal >> filesystem interface for even better performance. > > Er, I don't think ReiserFS is in the Linux kernel yet, although it is > the default filesystem on some distros apparently. I think Linus has > some reservations about the stability of the filesystem since it is It is in the kernel: http://lxr.linux.no/source/fs/reiserfs/?v=2.4.4 Bugs died left and right when it went in. > fairly new. That said, it would be hard to be much worse than Ext2fs > with write cacheing enabled (default!) in the event of power failure. > We only have three Linux boxes here (and one is a PC104 with a flash > disk) and already I've had to reinstall the entire OS once when we had a > power glitch. ext2fsck managed to destroy about 1/3 of the files on the > system, in a pretty much random manner (the lib and etc were hit hard). If you don't like ext2, why should it like you? :-) I power cycle a Linux box nearly every day to reset a board. > If only FreeBSD could boot from those funky M-Systems flash disks. If you want flash, use a filesystem designed for flash. (not UFS, ext2, Reiserfs, XFS, JFS, or FAT... try JFFS2) >> So, no async here, and "UFS + soft updates" can't touch the >> performance on huge directories. From another email you mention benchmarking with: > Linux 2.2.16 with ext2fs and write caching > 10000 transactions, 60000 simultanious files: 1. The 2.2.16 kernel is obsolete. 2. 60000 files is not a lot. Try a few million files. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 11:40:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relayout1.micronpc.com (meihost.micronpc.com [209.19.139.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3425337B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 11:40:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpsimerson@hostpro.com) Received: from mei00wssout01.micron.com (mei00wssout01.micronpc.com [172.30.41.216]) by relayout1.micronpc.com (2.5 Build 2640 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA06041; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:40:16 -0600 Received: from 172.30.42.5 by mei00wssout01.micron.com with ESMTP ( Tumbleweed MMS SMTP Relay(WSS) v4.5); Tue, 22 May 2001 12:40:17 -0600 X-Server-Uuid: 6b1d535a-5b27-11d3-bf09-00902786a6a3 Received: by MEI00IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:40:45 -0600 Message-ID: <8D18712B2604D411A6BB009027F6449801B4B6DF@0SEA01EXSRV1> From: "Matt Simerson" To: "'Terry Lambert'" Cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: technical comparison Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:40:11 -0600 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 17146D1B879615-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > -----Original Message----- > From: Terry Lambert [mailto:tlambert@primenet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:59 AM > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: technical comparison > > ] I work in an environment consisting of 300+ systems, all FreeBSD > ] and Solaris, along with lots of EMC and F5 stuff. Our engineering division > ] has been working on a dynamic content server and search engine for the > ] past 2.5 years. They have consistently not met up to performance and > ] throughput requirements and have always blamed our use of FreeBSD for it. > > You may wish to point out to them that their F5 boxes are > running FreeBSD. > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org When did that change? As of March which was the last time I had my grubby little hands all over a F5 BigIP box in our lab, it was NOT running FreeBSD. It runs a tweaked version of BSDI's kernel. Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 11:50:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E0B37B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 11:50:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17572; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24572; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dhcp-105-164.mitre.org (128.29.105.164) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 6561813; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:49:10 -0400 Message-ID: <3B0AB4B1.78A0FB0A@mitre.org> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:49:21 -0400 From: Jason Andresen Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-20000818M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Albert D. Cahalan" Cc: ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <200105221816.f4MIGK1171051@saturn.cs.uml.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Albert D. Cahalan" wrote: > > Jason Andresen writes: > > Er, I don't think ReiserFS is in the Linux kernel yet, although it is > > the default filesystem on some distros apparently. I think Linus has > > some reservations about the stability of the filesystem since it is > > It is in the kernel: > http://lxr.linux.no/source/fs/reiserfs/?v=2.4.4 > Bugs died left and right when it went in. Looks like my news was out of date. Thanks for the update. > > fairly new. That said, it would be hard to be much worse than Ext2fs > > with write cacheing enabled (default!) in the event of power failure. > > We only have three Linux boxes here (and one is a PC104 with a flash > > disk) and already I've had to reinstall the entire OS once when we had a > > power glitch. ext2fsck managed to destroy about 1/3 of the files on the > > system, in a pretty much random manner (the lib and etc were hit hard). > > If you don't like ext2, why should it like you? :-) > I power cycle a Linux box nearly every day to reset > a board. > > > If only FreeBSD could boot from those funky M-Systems flash disks. > > If you want flash, use a filesystem designed for flash. > (not UFS, ext2, Reiserfs, XFS, JFS, or FAT... try JFFS2) > > >> So, no async here, and "UFS + soft updates" can't touch the > >> performance on huge directories. > > >From another email you mention benchmarking with: > > > Linux 2.2.16 with ext2fs and write caching > > 10000 transactions, 60000 simultanious files: > > 1. The 2.2.16 kernel is obsolete. > 2. 60000 files is not a lot. Try a few million files. 60000 files took ~15 minutes to create as is. I'm going to have to wait until tonight to run larger sets. 2.2.16 is what we have here. I'm still waiting to see how much faster ReiserFS is. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 12:26:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.Technion.AC.IL (csa.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC77C37B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:26:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by cs.Technion.AC.IL (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA03554; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:27:27 +0300 (IDT) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA14788; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:27:27 +0300 (IDT) X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:27:27 +0300 (IDT) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: hackers@freebsd.org, Jason Andresen Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <3B0AB7B6.18FAFBA5@mitre.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I ran tests that I think are similar to what Jason ran on identically configured FreeBSD and Linux/ReiserFS machines. ResierFS is much much faster than UFS+softupdates on these tests. Linux (2.2.14-5 + ReiserFS): Time: 164 seconds total 97 seconds of transactions (103 per second) Files: 65052 created (396 per second) Creation alone: 60000 files (1090 per second) Mixed with transactions: 5052 files (52 per second) 4936 read (50 per second) 5063 appended (52 per second) 65052 deleted (396 per second) Deletion alone: 60104 files (5008 per second) Mixed with transactions: 4948 files (51 per second) Data: 24.83 megabytes read (155.01 kilobytes per second) 336.87 megabytes written (2.05 megabytes per second) FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE (ufs/softupdates): Time: 537 seconds total 155 seconds of transactions (64 per second) Files: 65052 created (121 per second) Creation alone: 60000 files (172 per second) Mixed with transactions: 5052 files (32 per second) 4936 read (31 per second) 5063 appended (32 per second) 65052 deleted (121 per second) Deletion alone: 60104 files (1717 per second) Mixed with transactions: 4948 files (31 per second) Data: 24.83 megabytes read (47.34 kilobytes per second) 336.87 megabytes written (642.38 kilobytes per second) Both tests were done with postmark-1.5, 60000 files in 10000 transactions. The machines are IBM Netfinity 4000R, the disk is an IBM DPSS-336950N, connected to an Adaptec 2940UW. Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 12:33:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dayspring.firedrake.org (dayspring.firedrake.org [195.82.105.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC1437B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:33:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from float@firedrake.org) Received: from float by dayspring.firedrake.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 152Hx3-0001bf-00; Tue, 22 May 2001 20:36:17 +0100 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:36:17 +0100 To: Matt Simerson Cc: 'Terry Lambert' , "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010522203617.A6041@firedrake.org> References: <8D18712B2604D411A6BB009027F6449801B4B6DF@0SEA01EXSRV1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <8D18712B2604D411A6BB009027F6449801B4B6DF@0SEA01EXSRV1>; from mpsimerson@hostpro.com on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 12:40:11PM -0600 From: void Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 12:40:11PM -0600, Matt Simerson wrote: > > When did that change? As of March which was the last time I had my grubby > little hands all over a F5 BigIP box in our lab, it was NOT running FreeBSD. > It runs a tweaked version of BSDI's kernel. I believe it is Terry's information that's out of date, not yours. -- Ben "An art scene of delight I created this to be ..." -- Sun Ra To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 12:34:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from messiah.megadeb.org (cpe.atm0-0-0-218131.arcnxx5.customer.tele.dk [62.242.79.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A9F437B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:34:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from messiah@runbox.com) Received: (from messiah@localhost) by messiah.megadeb.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MJZMM18900 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:35:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from messiah) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:35:22 +0200 From: Munish Chopra To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010522213522.G18665@messiah.megadeb.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ReiserFS entered Linux kernels in the pre 2.4.1 series, and was 'official' with 2.4.1. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 12:59:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-9.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15DE637B424 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:59:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9D27766D85; Tue, 22 May 2001 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:59:19 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Terry Lambert Cc: Wilko Bulte , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -R for make update ? Message-ID: <20010522125919.D27648@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010521194828.A789@freebie.demon.nl> <3B0A46CF.9D0CB622@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="d01dLTUuW90fS44H" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B0A46CF.9D0CB622@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:00:31AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --d01dLTUuW90fS44H Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:00:31AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Is there any specific reason why one needs to be able to > > write a lock to the CVS repo when running 'make update' > > to get a freshly checked out source? >=20 > Yeah: you aren't running your CVS server in "pserver" > mode, and so are trying to do a lock, either in your > local copy, or over NFS. >=20 > If you run your repository in pserver mode, the CVS server > will be connected to over the network, instead of attacking > your CVS repo directly, and you won't have the problem you > are seeing, since the cvs server will be able to get the > lock, no problem. It will also be freakishly slow, and use massive amounts of temp space. Kris --d01dLTUuW90fS44H Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7CsUWWry0BWjoQKURAhGLAKDKnJVAHd6OSglnR08WSvCw2FApZwCgzKKq PkSIP54dYtdroDQbYTxEn+U= =Zz2Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --d01dLTUuW90fS44H-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 13:16: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA1237B43E for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 13:15:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11454; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:15:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08632; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:15:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15114.51414.50651.695529@nomad.yogotech.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:15:18 -0600 (MDT) To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Terry Lambert , Wilko Bulte , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -R for make update ? In-Reply-To: <20010522125919.D27648@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010521194828.A789@freebie.demon.nl> <3B0A46CF.9D0CB622@mindspring.com> <20010522125919.D27648@xor.obsecurity.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Is there any specific reason why one needs to be able to > > > write a lock to the CVS repo when running 'make update' > > > to get a freshly checked out source? > > > > Yeah: you aren't running your CVS server in "pserver" > > mode, and so are trying to do a lock, either in your > > local copy, or over NFS. > > > > If you run your repository in pserver mode, the CVS server > > will be connected to over the network, instead of attacking > > your CVS repo directly, and you won't have the problem you > > are seeing, since the cvs server will be able to get the > > lock, no problem. > > It will also be freakishly slow, and use massive amounts of temp > space. No slower than cvs using rsh/ssh, although it does tend to create alot of inodes in /tmp. (It doesn't create alot of temp space, other than what is used to create the directories...) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 14:12:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A47DF37B422; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:12:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4MLCh610392; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:12:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:12:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105222112.f4MLCh610392@earth.backplane.com> To: John Baldwin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, "Brian F. Feldman" Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : : :On 22-May-01 Matt Dillon wrote: :>:Ok, then why not let the current shmexit() stay in exit1() as a hack to help :>:free memory, but add in a check in vmspace_free() as well to catch any race :>:conditions that may fall through the cracks? As long as we clear the shm :>:pointer in struct vmspace when we free it then we won't be double free'ing, :>:and :>:will always free it eventually. That is also a much simpler change. :) :>:Additionally, adding to the comment in exit1() clarifying that this is an :>:attempt to free resources as soon as possible and that the race condition is :>:known and that vmspace_free() is a catch-all might be nice as well. :>: :>:-- :>: :>:John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ :>:PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc :> :> It's not really good programming practice. Someone might trip over :> it later on. : :Then the vmspace free()ing is also bad programming practice? It's the same :exact algorithm used for the vmspace. : :> -Matt : :John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ Huh? It doesn't look like the same algorithm to me. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 14:27:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4B237B422; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:27:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@foo.osd.bsdi.com) Received: from foo.osd.bsdi.com (root@foo.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.137]) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f4MLRmK50014; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:27:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@foo.osd.bsdi.com) Received: (from jhb@localhost) by foo.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f4MLRlu42407; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:27:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200105222112.f4MLCh610392@earth.backplane.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:27:47 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Matt Dillon Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-May-01 Matt Dillon wrote: > >: >: >:On 22-May-01 Matt Dillon wrote: >:>:Ok, then why not let the current shmexit() stay in exit1() as a hack to >:>:help >:>:free memory, but add in a check in vmspace_free() as well to catch any race >:>:conditions that may fall through the cracks? As long as we clear the shm >:>:pointer in struct vmspace when we free it then we won't be double free'ing, >:>:and >:>:will always free it eventually. That is also a much simpler change. :) >:>:Additionally, adding to the comment in exit1() clarifying that this is an >:>:attempt to free resources as soon as possible and that the race condition >:>:is >:>:known and that vmspace_free() is a catch-all might be nice as well. >:>: >:>:-- >:>: >:>:John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ >:>:PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc >:> >:> It's not really good programming practice. Someone might trip over >:> it later on. >: >:Then the vmspace free()ing is also bad programming practice? It's the same >:exact algorithm used for the vmspace. >: >:> -Matt >: >:John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ > > Huh? It doesn't look like the same algorithm to me. In exit1() we attempt to free resources early if we can. If we lose the race, we still clean it up in vmspace_free() called from cpu_wait(). If you check the shm pointer and do shmexit() in vmspace_free() just as is done in vmspace_free(), then you will catch any cases that fall through with the shm not being free'd using the same technique currently employed in releasing the vmspace and with a minimal amount of change to the code. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.Baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 14:39:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738F637B424; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:39:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4MLdDs11003; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:39:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:39:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105222139.f4MLdDs11003@earth.backplane.com> To: John Baldwin Cc: "Brian F. Feldman" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :>: :>:John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ :> :> Huh? It doesn't look like the same algorithm to me. : :In exit1() we attempt to free resources early if we can. If we lose the race, :we still clean it up in vmspace_free() called from cpu_wait(). If you check :the shm pointer and do shmexit() in vmspace_free() just as is done in :vmspace_free(), then you will catch any cases that fall through with the shm :not being free'd using the same technique currently employed in releasing the :vmspace and with a minimal amount of change to the code. : :-- : :John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ The whole point is to release resources as early as possible. Why would you ever want to intentionally introduce a race that will 'sometimes' be lost and thus cause a late resource release when you can just as easily completely guarentee that the resource will be released early, and thus never have to worry about it. That makes no sense at all. From the point of view of algorithm design, it's much better to know what *will* happen rather then what *might* happen. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 14:42:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-9.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B58C437B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:42:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 42E7966B5F; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:42:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:42:42 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Nate Williams Cc: Kris Kennaway , Terry Lambert , Wilko Bulte , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -R for make update ? Message-ID: <20010522144242.A29988@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010521194828.A789@freebie.demon.nl> <3B0A46CF.9D0CB622@mindspring.com> <20010522125919.D27648@xor.obsecurity.org> <15114.51414.50651.695529@nomad.yogotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="/04w6evG8XlLl3ft" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <15114.51414.50651.695529@nomad.yogotech.com>; from nate@yogotech.com on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 02:15:18PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 02:15:18PM -0600, Nate Williams wrote: > > > > Is there any specific reason why one needs to be able to > > > > write a lock to the CVS repo when running 'make update' > > > > to get a freshly checked out source? > > >=20 > > > Yeah: you aren't running your CVS server in "pserver" > > > mode, and so are trying to do a lock, either in your > > > local copy, or over NFS. > > >=20 > > > If you run your repository in pserver mode, the CVS server > > > will be connected to over the network, instead of attacking > > > your CVS repo directly, and you won't have the problem you > > > are seeing, since the cvs server will be able to get the > > > lock, no problem. > >=20 > > It will also be freakishly slow, and use massive amounts of temp > > space. >=20 > No slower than cvs using rsh/ssh, although it does tend to create alot > of inodes in /tmp. (It doesn't create alot of temp space, other than > what is used to create the directories...) Yes, using rsh/ssh is also slow, but we were talking about *local* access, which has none of those drawbacks. -R makes cvs operations go quite a bit faster, and AFAIK is perfectly safe if you're using a private repo for which you know there will be no contention. Kris --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7Ct1RWry0BWjoQKURAhROAKCjI3HryT3y26HnnYC7pq8/u+cQVgCeOhiG llbLV+dd4y9RxZo2cS04xaE= =6wzM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/04w6evG8XlLl3ft-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 14:43:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E880737B422; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:43:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@foo.osd.bsdi.com) Received: from foo.osd.bsdi.com (root@foo.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.137]) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f4MLhSK50181; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:43:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@foo.osd.bsdi.com) Received: (from jhb@localhost) by foo.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f4MLhRM42436; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:43:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200105222139.f4MLdDs11003@earth.backplane.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:43:27 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Matt Dillon Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, "Brian F. Feldman" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-May-01 Matt Dillon wrote: >:>: >:>:John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ >:> >:> Huh? It doesn't look like the same algorithm to me. >: >:In exit1() we attempt to free resources early if we can. If we lose the >:race, >:we still clean it up in vmspace_free() called from cpu_wait(). If you check >:the shm pointer and do shmexit() in vmspace_free() just as is done in >:vmspace_free(), then you will catch any cases that fall through with the shm >:not being free'd using the same technique currently employed in releasing the >:vmspace and with a minimal amount of change to the code. >: >:-- >: >:John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ > > The whole point is to release resources as early as possible. Why would > you ever want to intentionally introduce a race that will 'sometimes' be > lost and thus cause a late resource release when you can just as easily > completely guarentee that the resource will be released early, and thus > never have to worry about it. That makes no sense at all. From the > point of view of algorithm design, it's much better to know what *will* > happen rather then what *might* happen. Then do you want to fix the race for the vmspace release as well? If so, that makes sense. Only doing one and not the other makes no sense though. It seemed you only wanted to close the shmexit() race but not the one for releasing the user pages. *shrug* -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.Baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 14:47:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-9.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98E1E37B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:47:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 44C4766B5F; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:47:28 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Nadav Eiron Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Jason Andresen Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010522144728.B29988@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <3B0AB7B6.18FAFBA5@mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1UWUbFP1cBYEclgG" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from nadav@cs.Technion.AC.IL on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 10:27:27PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --1UWUbFP1cBYEclgG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 10:27:27PM +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote: > I ran tests that I think are similar to what Jason ran on identically > configured FreeBSD and Linux/ReiserFS machines. ResierFS is much much > faster than UFS+softupdates on these tests.=20 >=20 > Linux (2.2.14-5 + ReiserFS): > Time: > 164 seconds total > 97 seconds of transactions (103 per second) >=20 > Files: > 65052 created (396 per second) > Creation alone: 60000 files (1090 per second) > Mixed with transactions: 5052 files (52 per second) > 4936 read (50 per second) > 5063 appended (52 per second) > 65052 deleted (396 per second) > Deletion alone: 60104 files (5008 per second) > Mixed with transactions: 4948 files (51 per second) >=20 > Data: > 24.83 megabytes read (155.01 kilobytes per second) > 336.87 megabytes written (2.05 megabytes per second) >=20 > FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE (ufs/softupdates): Did you enable write caching? You didn't mention, and it's off by default in 4.3, but I think enabled by default on Linux. Kris --1UWUbFP1cBYEclgG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7Ct5vWry0BWjoQKURAooGAJsFEkXSMdV1MpUEQUQddU22xHyE3ACfS+g1 A60VJiRAkE0cF9sir2LsnP0= =4wU8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1UWUbFP1cBYEclgG-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 14:53:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3108437B43C; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:53:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4MLrFe11250; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:53:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:53:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105222153.f4MLrFe11250@earth.backplane.com> To: John Baldwin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, "Brian F. Feldman" Subject: Re: RE: vmspace leak (+ tentative fix) References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> :> The whole point is to release resources as early as possible. Why would :> you ever want to intentionally introduce a race that will 'sometimes' be :> lost and thus cause a late resource release when you can just as easily :> completely guarentee that the resource will be released early, and thus :> never have to worry about it. That makes no sense at all. From the :> point of view of algorithm design, it's much better to know what *will* :> happen rather then what *might* happen. : :Then do you want to fix the race for the vmspace release as well? If so, that :makes sense. Only doing one and not the other makes no sense though. It :seemed you only wanted to close the shmexit() race but not the one for :releasing the user pages. *shrug* : :-- : :John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ The patch I suggested removes the race, period. So all the code in the initial conditional gets run... the shmexit as well as releasing the user pages. Since the two are side by side it would be kinda difficult to run one but not the other so I'm not sure where the confusion could have been introduced. We might also want to add the shmexit to the vmspace_free() code for completeness, but that would require more research to determine whether it's safe to do there or not. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 15:56:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.Technion.AC.IL (csa.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9435C37B42C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 15:56:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by cs.Technion.AC.IL (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.0) with ESMTP id BAA20718; Wed, 23 May 2001 01:57:40 +0300 (IDT) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.0) with SMTP id BAA26860; Wed, 23 May 2001 01:57:36 +0300 (IDT) X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 01:57:36 +0300 (IDT) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: Kris Kennaway Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Jason Andresen Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010522144728.B29988@xor.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I didn't, but I believe Jason's numbers (for ext2 and ufs) also had write caching only enabled on Linux. On Tue, 22 May 2001, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 10:27:27PM +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote: > > I ran tests that I think are similar to what Jason ran on identically > > configured FreeBSD and Linux/ReiserFS machines. ResierFS is much much > > faster than UFS+softupdates on these tests. > > > > Linux (2.2.14-5 + ReiserFS): > > Time: > > 164 seconds total > > 97 seconds of transactions (103 per second) > > > > Files: > > 65052 created (396 per second) > > Creation alone: 60000 files (1090 per second) > > Mixed with transactions: 5052 files (52 per second) > > 4936 read (50 per second) > > 5063 appended (52 per second) > > 65052 deleted (396 per second) > > Deletion alone: 60104 files (5008 per second) > > Mixed with transactions: 4948 files (51 per second) > > > > Data: > > 24.83 megabytes read (155.01 kilobytes per second) > > 336.87 megabytes written (2.05 megabytes per second) > > > > FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE (ufs/softupdates): > > Did you enable write caching? You didn't mention, and it's off by > default in 4.3, but I think enabled by default on Linux. > > Kris > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 17:34:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web13405.mail.yahoo.com (web13405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2906F37B43C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:34:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sandejain@rocketmail.com) Message-ID: <20010523003414.51600.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.17.136.129] by web13405.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:34:14 PDT Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:34:14 -0700 (PDT) From: SJ Subject: Device driver questions To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I am new to writing device drivers...so please excuse my ignorance. I have a couple of questions regarding that: 1. "ioconf.c" contains struct config_resource and config_device definitions for declarations in "config" file. But I noticed that for some devices e.g. device atadisk device atapicd ... the corresponding lines in ioconf.c are missing?? 2. Whats the use of device_ops structure and what does "ops" stand for? 3. File naming question: whats the reasoning behind having "bus.h" and "bus_private.h"....whats the significance of "private" here. 4. concept behind having devclasses...I know that devclasses for a particular bus holds devices and device drivers for that bus. But then whats the need for defining a devclass for each driver we write ? 5. Any poniters to literature which explains the design philosophy and code specific help for device drivers in freebsd - I am referring to files kern/subr_bus.c, bus.h, bus_private.h, isa/* etc. thanks for your help, SJ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 17:45: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from newsguy.com (smtp.newsguy.com [209.155.56.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA79637B424 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:45:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (ppp185-bsace7001.telebrasilia.net.br [200.181.80.185]) by newsguy.com (8.11.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f4N0hCF93279; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B0B07C2.F8EA4839@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:43:46 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,pt,en-GB,en-US,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason Andresen Cc: "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0A6A36.5E8EF98C@mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Andresen wrote: > > If only FreeBSD could boot from those funky M-Systems flash disks. It can. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@the.secret.bsdconspiracy.net wow regex humor... I'm a geek To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 17:48:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from newsguy.com (smtp.newsguy.com [209.155.56.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C3B637B424 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:48:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (ppp185-bsace7001.telebrasilia.net.br [200.181.80.185]) by newsguy.com (8.11.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f4N0khF94210; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B0B089A.AA97F518@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:47:22 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,pt,en-GB,en-US,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason Andresen Cc: "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0A8DD5.9A38449B@mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Andresen wrote: > > Results: > ufs+softupdates is a little slower than ext2fs+wc for low numbers of > files, but scales better. I wish I had a Reiserfs partition to > test with. Ext2fs is a non-contender. Note, though, that there is some very recent perfomance improvement on very large directories known as dirpref (what changed, actually, was dirpref's algorithm). This is NOT present on 4.3-RELEASE, though it _might_ have since been committed to stable. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@the.secret.bsdconspiracy.net wow regex humor... I'm a geek To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 17:50:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from newsguy.com (smtp.newsguy.com [209.155.56.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A075837B42C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:50:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (ppp185-bsace7001.telebrasilia.net.br [200.181.80.185]) by newsguy.com (8.11.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f4N0oUF95315; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B0B097D.B6C5BB40@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:51:09 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,pt,en-GB,en-US,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nadav Eiron Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Jason Andresen Subject: Re: technical comparison References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nadav Eiron wrote: > > I ran tests that I think are similar to what Jason ran on identically > configured FreeBSD and Linux/ReiserFS machines. ResierFS is much much > faster than UFS+softupdates on these tests. > > FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE (ufs/softupdates): 4.3 does not have the dirpref changes. (Hey, once in a while we can play the kernel of the day game! :) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@the.secret.bsdconspiracy.net wow regex humor... I'm a geek To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 17:52:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from newsguy.com (smtp.newsguy.com [209.155.56.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0544937B42C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:52:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (ppp185-bsace7001.telebrasilia.net.br [200.181.80.185]) by newsguy.com (8.11.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f4N0qbF95823; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B0B09FA.8324A3C2@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:53:14 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,pt,en-GB,en-US,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nadav Eiron Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Jason Andresen Subject: Re: technical comparison References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nadav Eiron wrote: > > I ran tests that I think are similar to what Jason ran on identically > configured FreeBSD and Linux/ReiserFS machines. ResierFS is much much > faster than UFS+softupdates on these tests. For that matter, did you have vfs.vmiodirenable enabled? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@the.secret.bsdconspiracy.net wow regex humor... I'm a geek To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 18:31:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E0737B440 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 18:31:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.185.98] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 152NUS-000Aa0-00; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:31:09 -0400 Received: from daydream (mail@daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f4N1KWh09647; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 152NKC-0001Fq-00; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:20:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:20:32 -0400 From: Shannon Hendrix To: Jason Andresen Cc: "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010522212029.D2734@widomaker.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jason Andresen , "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <200105221816.f4MIGK1171051@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0AB4B1.78A0FB0A@mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B0AB4B1.78A0FB0A@mitre.org>; from jandrese@mitre.org on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 02:49:21PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 02:49:21PM -0400, Jason Andresen wrote: > 60000 files took ~15 minutes to create as is. I'm going to have to wait > until tonight to run larger sets. 2.2.16 is what we have here. > I'm still waiting to see how much faster ReiserFS is. I'm willing to overnight your test if you want. Do you have it packaged up to send? It would be interesting just to get numbers from a Linux system with a modern kernel. 2.4.1 gave me enough of a speed boost to put off another FreeBSD install until I fix some problems there. I cannot test FreeBSD with SCSI right now so my system will be an inequal set of results. I would offer to test NetBSD as well, but I suppose no one would be interested in that. -- shannon@widomaker.com _________________________________________________ ______________________/ armchairrocketscientistgraffitiexistentialist "There is no such thing as security. Life is either bold adventure, or it is nothing -- Helen Keller" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 18:31:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 483DE37B42C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 18:31:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.185.98] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 152NUU-000Aa0-00; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:31:11 -0400 Received: from daydream (mail@daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f4N18Qh09603; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 152N8U-0001Dg-00; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:08:26 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:08:26 -0400 From: Shannon Hendrix To: Jason Andresen Cc: "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010522210824.C2734@widomaker.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jason Andresen , "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0A6A36.5E8EF98C@mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B0A6A36.5E8EF98C@mitre.org>; from jandrese@mitre.org on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:31:34AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:31:34AM -0400, Jason Andresen wrote: > Er, I don't think ReiserFS is in the Linux kernel yet, although it is > the default filesystem on some distros apparently. ReiserFS, on my system anyway, started just losing files. I'd log in and would notice some mp3 files or source code was just gone. No heavy load, and no crashes. Nope, not for me. I think they'll get it in time if the basic design isn't flawed, but things like an fs just take a lot of time to debug and come to trust. There are already some very good journaling systems, and it would seem better to get them ported, and leave things like ReiserFS a research project until it proves itself. > That said, it would be hard to be much worse than Ext2fs with write cacheing > enabled (default!) in the event of power failure. Point taken, but the "yank power, see who survives" test is illogical and dangerous thinking. Besides, my drives have megabytes of write-cache that I cannot disable. Most are large enough to cause problems for most any fs if they crash at just the right moment. From what I have read, a lot of drives really ignore commands to turn it off or do synchronous writes. Both ext2 and ufs both handle my chores with little or no trouble. On some systems, I've actually preferred ufs to the journaled file systems. > We only have three Linux boxes here (and one is a PC104 with a flash > disk) and already I've had to reinstall the entire OS once when we had a > power glitch. ext2fsck managed to destroy about 1/3 of the files on the > system, in a pretty much random manner (the lib and etc were hit hard). This is not typical. Also, I have heard the same thing from other people about flash disks. fs crash, fsck, and a mess afterwards. It would be nice if you could use ufs and see if the same problem exists. -- "There's music along the river For Love wanders there, Pale | | | flowers on his mantle, Dark leaves on his hair." -- James Joyce | | | ________________________________________________________________ / | \ s h a n n o n @ w i d o m a k e r . c o m _/ | \_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 18:57: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from newsguy.com (smtp.newsguy.com [209.155.56.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F40337B42C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 18:56:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (ppp185-bsace7001.telebrasilia.net.br [200.181.80.185]) by newsguy.com (8.11.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f4N1sOF11529; Tue, 22 May 2001 18:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B0B187D.47C98452@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:55:09 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,pt,en-GB,en-US,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shannon Hendrix Cc: Jason Andresen , "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <200105221816.f4MIGK1171051@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0AB4B1.78A0FB0A@mitre.org> <20010522212029.D2734@widomaker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Shannon Hendrix wrote: > > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 02:49:21PM -0400, Jason Andresen wrote: > > > 60000 files took ~15 minutes to create as is. I'm going to have to wait > > until tonight to run larger sets. 2.2.16 is what we have here. > > I'm still waiting to see how much faster ReiserFS is. > > I'm willing to overnight your test if you want. Do you have it packaged > up to send? It would be interesting just to get numbers from a Linux > system with a modern kernel. 2.4.1 gave me enough of a speed boost to > put off another FreeBSD install until I fix some problems there. > > I cannot test FreeBSD with SCSI right now so my system will be an > inequal set of results. > > I would offer to test NetBSD as well, but I suppose no one would be > interested in that. And just to get things worse... :-) the test must be made on the *same* slice. If you configure two different slices, the one on the outer tracks will be faster. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@the.secret.bsdconspiracy.net wow regex humor... I'm a geek To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 19:31:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C503237B42C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 19:31:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.185.98] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 152OQX-000E3v-00; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:31:10 -0400 Received: from daydream (mail@daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f4N2OYh10047; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 152OKA-0001SO-00; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:24:34 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:24:34 -0400 From: Shannon Hendrix To: Jason Andresen Cc: "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010522222432.B5012@widomaker.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jason Andresen , "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <200105221816.f4MIGK1171051@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0AB4B1.78A0FB0A@mitre.org> <20010522212029.D2734@widomaker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010522212029.D2734@widomaker.com>; from shannon@widomaker.com on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:20:32PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:20:32PM -0400, Shannon Hendrix wrote: > I'm willing to overnight your test if you want. Do you have it packaged > up to send? I meant to say did you have the parameters you used saved. I'm assuming now though, that you used the defaults for the program except for transactions and number. -- "And in billows of might swell the Saxons before her,-- Unite, oh unite! Or the billows burst o'er her!" -- Downfall of the Gael ______________________________________________________________________ Charles Shannon Hendrix s h a n n o n @ w i d o m a k e r . c o m To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 19:31:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A20A837B623 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 19:31:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.185.98] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 152OQZ-000E3v-00; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:31:12 -0400 Received: from daydream (mail@daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f4N2NVh10041; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 152OJ8-0001Rz-00; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:23:30 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:23:30 -0400 From: Shannon Hendrix To: Jason Andresen Cc: "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010522222328.A5012@widomaker.com> Mail-Followup-To: Jason Andresen , "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0A8DD5.9A38449B@mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B0A8DD5.9A38449B@mitre.org>; from jandrese@mitre.org on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 12:03:33PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 12:03:33PM -0400, Jason Andresen wrote: > Here's the results I got from postmark, which seems to be the closest > match to the original problem in the entire ports tree. > > Test setup: > Two machines with the same make and model hardware, one running > FreeBSD 4.0, the other running RedHat Linux 7.0. > > The data: > > Hardware: > Both machines have the same hardware on paper (although it is TWO > machines, > YMMV). > PII-300 > Intel PIIX4 ATA33 controller > IBM-DHEA-38451 8063MB ata0-master using UDMA33 HD > > Note: all variables are left at default unless mentioned. > > 10000 transactions, 500 files. What did you set size to? How much memory on the machine? I tested on a 700MHz Athlon system with 256MB RAM, Adaptec 2940UW controller, 18GB IBM Ultrastar SCSI drive. You must have really low memory or something because I know that 10000 transactions and 500 files can't be enough for anything faster than my old Sun SS5. I hit over 16MB/sec and 5000 transactions per second on my Linux machine. On the larger tests, it was disappointing. I can't test FreeBSD on SCSI right now, but my NetBSD machine (the old Sun SS5 wasn't terrible at least: Time: 220 seconds total 204 seconds of transactions (49 per second) Files: 5564 created (25 per second) Creation alone: 500 files (62 per second) Mixed with transactions: 5064 files (24 per second) 4999 read (24 per second) 4967 appended (24 per second) 5564 deleted (25 per second) Deletion alone: 628 files (78 per second) Mixed with transactions: 4936 files (24 per second) Data: 32.12 megabytes read (149.52 kilobytes per second) 35.61 megabytes written (165.73 kilobytes per second) > 10000 transactions, 60000 files > FreeBSD 4.0 with Softupdates, write cache disabled > Time: > 1259 seconds total > 495 seconds of transactions (20 per second) I got about 60 per second right here. I was actually expecting better results from Linux and NetBSD than I got, and would expect more from FreeBSD than you got. I'm going to test FreeBSD tomorrow and Linux again with much larger numbers of files and transactions. -- "Star Wars Moral Number 17: Teddy bears are dangerous in | | | herds." | | | ________________________________________________________________ / | \ s h a n n o n @ w i d o m a k e r . c o m _/ | \_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 20: 1:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE45D37B42C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 20:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.185.98] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 152Oti-000Fqp-00; Tue, 22 May 2001 23:01:19 -0400 Received: from daydream (mail@daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f4N2VNh10074; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 152OQk-0001Td-00; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:31:22 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:31:22 -0400 From: Shannon Hendrix To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Jason Andresen , "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010522223120.C5012@widomaker.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Daniel C. Sobral" , Jason Andresen , "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200105221816.f4MIGK1171051@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0AB4B1.78A0FB0A@mitre.org> <20010522212029.D2734@widomaker.com> <3B0B187D.47C98452@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B0B187D.47C98452@newsguy.com>; from dcs@newsguy.com on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 10:55:09PM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 10:55:09PM -0300, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > And just to get things worse... :-) the test must be made on the *same* > slice. If you configure two different slices, the one on the outer > tracks will be faster. I cannot verify that with my drive, but my largest is 18GB so maybe the difference is not as pronounced as on some newer drives like those (currently) monster 70GB drives. A 70GB IBM Ultrastar supposedly can physically outrun the internal electronics on the faster tracks. One review I read mentioned it as a problem, though I'm not sure why. In any case, I'm not quite that picky, and I would not think that postmark would benefit as much from being on the faster tracks. It's doing a lot more complicated things than just streaming data. -- "And in billows of might swell the Saxons before her,-- Unite, oh unite! Or the billows burst o'er her!" -- Downfall of the Gael ______________________________________________________________________ Charles Shannon Hendrix s h a n n o n @ w i d o m a k e r . c o m To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 20: 1:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2597A37B43C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 20:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (pool0299.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.193.44]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28869; Tue, 22 May 2001 23:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B0B2824.949B119A@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:01:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nadav Eiron Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Jason Andresen Subject: Re: technical comparison References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nadav Eiron wrote: > > I ran tests that I think are similar to what Jason ran on identically > configured FreeBSD and Linux/ReiserFS machines. ResierFS is much much > faster than UFS+softupdates on these tests. [ ... ] > Both tests were done with postmark-1.5, 60000 files in > 10000 transactions. The machines are IBM Netfinity 4000R, > the disk is an IBM DPSS-336950N, connected to an Adaptec > 2940UW. I don't understand the inability to perform the trivial design engineering necessary to keep from needing to put 60,000 files in one directory. However, we can take it as a given that people who need to do this are incapable of doing computer science. I would suggest two things: 1) If write caching is off on the Linux disks, turn it off on the FreeBSD disks. 2) " " -- and then turn it on on both. 3) Modify the test to delete the files based on a directory traversal, instead of promiscuous knowledge of the file names, which is cheating to make the lookups appear faster. (the rationale behind this last is that people who can't design around needing 60,000 files in a single directory are probably going to to be unable to correctly remember the names of the files they created, since if they could, then they could remember things like ./a/a/aardvark or ./a/b/abominable). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 20: 5:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp-1.enteract.com (smtp-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8A1437B424 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 20:05:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Received: from shell-3.enteract.com (shell-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.42]) by smtp-1.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5536144; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:04:59 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:04:59 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt X-X-Sender: To: Shannon Hendrix Cc: Jason Andresen , "Albert D. Cahalan" , , , , Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010522210824.C2734@widomaker.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 May 2001, Shannon Hendrix wrote: : :Point taken, but the "yank power, see who survives" test is illogical :and dangerous thinking. Depends on the enviornment. I've had lots of machines just lose power. People will pull power cords out, the back-up generators won't start before the battery back-up runs out, someone will push the Big Red Switch. Even the best back-up power isn't going to help if it catches fire. I sort of like machines to work when the power comes back. -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 20: 5:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C4137B43C for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 20:05:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (pool0299.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.193.44]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA24920; Tue, 22 May 2001 23:05:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B0B2908.EF4BBFCC@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:05:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: void Cc: Matt Simerson , "'Terry Lambert'" , "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <8D18712B2604D411A6BB009027F6449801B4B6DF@0SEA01EXSRV1> <20010522203617.A6041@firedrake.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG void wrote: > > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 12:40:11PM -0600, Matt Simerson wrote: > > > > When did that change? As of March which was the last time > > I had my grubby little hands all over a F5 BigIP box in our > > lab, it was NOT running FreeBSD. It runs a tweaked version > > of BSDI's kernel. > > I believe it is Terry's information that's out of date, not yours. Yep; mea culpa. I guess they will just have to install BSDI systems in place of your FreeBSD and Linux systems. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 20:43:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from saturn.cs.uml.edu (saturn.cs.uml.edu [129.63.8.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42FBD37B422 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 20:43:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acahalan@saturn.cs.uml.edu) Received: (from acahalan@localhost) by saturn.cs.uml.edu (8.11.0/8.11.2) id f4N3gr6186416; Tue, 22 May 2001 23:42:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Albert D. Cahalan" Message-Id: <200105230342.f4N3gr6186416@saturn.cs.uml.edu> Subject: Re: technical comparison To: shannon@widomaker.com (Shannon Hendrix) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:42:52 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jandrese@mitre.org (Jason Andresen), acahalan@cs.uml.edu (Albert D. Cahalan), ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20010522222328.A5012@widomaker.com> from "Shannon Hendrix" at May 22, 2001 10:23:30 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Shannon Hendrix writes: > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 12:03:33PM -0400, Jason Andresen wrote: >> Here's the results I got from postmark, which seems to be the closest >> match to the original problem in the entire ports tree. >> >> Test setup: >> Two machines with the same make and model hardware, one running >> FreeBSD 4.0, the other running RedHat Linux 7.0. That should be FreeBSD 4.3 and Red Hat 7.1 at least, or -current and 2.4.5-pre5. Considering that this is about a new system, the latest software and hardware ought to be used. Reiserfs only became stable just recently; the 2.4.1 kernel would be a dumb choice. >> 10000 transactions, 500 files. ... >> 10000 transactions, 60000 files Even 60000 files is insignificant by Reiserfs standards. The test gets interesting with several million files. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 22: 3: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from saturn.cs.uml.edu (saturn.cs.uml.edu [129.63.8.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821EB37B424 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:03:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acahalan@saturn.cs.uml.edu) Received: (from acahalan@localhost) by saturn.cs.uml.edu (8.11.0/8.11.2) id f4N52oE210244; Wed, 23 May 2001 01:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 01:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105230502.f4N52oE210244@saturn.cs.uml.edu> From: "Albert D. Cahalan" To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, nadav@cs.Technion.AC.IL, jandrese@mitre.org Subject: Re: technical comparison Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: > I don't understand the inability to perform the trivial > design engineering necessary to keep from needing to put > 60,000 files in one directory. > > However, we can take it as a given that people who need > to do this are incapable of doing computer science. One could say the same about the design engineering necessary to handle 60,000 files in one directory. You're making excuses. People _want_ to do this, and it often performs better on a modern filesystem. This is not about need; it's about keeping ugly hacks out of the app code. http://www.namesys.com/5_1.html > (the rationale behind this last is that people who can't > design around needing 60,000 files in a single directory > are probably going to to be unable to correctly remember > the names of the files they created, since if they could, > then they could remember things like ./a/a/aardvark or > ./a/b/abominable). Eeew. "./a/b/abominable" is a disgusting old hack used to work around traditional filesystem deficiencies. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 22 23:59: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (kawoserv.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.180.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD8C37B42C; Tue, 22 May 2001 23:58:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@big.endian.de) Received: from zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.181.28]) by kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA19956; Wed, 23 May 2001 08:58:58 +0200 Received: by zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CA07214CD5; Wed, 23 May 2001 08:58:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:58:57 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: SJ Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device driver questions Message-ID: <20010523085857.B1103@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> References: <20010523003414.51600.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010523003414.51600.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com>; from sandejain@rocketmail.com on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 05:34:14PM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake SJ (sandejain@rocketmail.com): Hi! > 1. "ioconf.c" contains struct config_resource and > config_device definitions for declarations in > "config" file. But I noticed that for some devices > e.g. device atadisk > device atapicd > ... > the corresponding lines in ioconf.c are missing?? I think it's because ata is a self-identifying bus. Not sure, though. Are any PCI-only devices listed? > 3. File naming question: > whats the reasoning behind having "bus.h" and > "bus_private.h"....whats the significance of > "private" here. drivers include bus.h, kernel does also include bus_private.h > 4. concept behind having devclasses...I know that > devclasses for a particular bus holds devices and > device drivers for that bus. But then whats the > need for defining a devclass for each driver we > write ? Because you can hold multpiple devices that are enumerated, e.g. xl0, xl1, ... The devclass is unique for each driver, but not for different busses. You can have ed0 on ISA and ed1 on PCI for example, using the same devclass. If ISA and PCI subdrivers are using a different devclass, the enumeration breaks. > 5. Any poniters to literature which explains the > design philosophy and code specific help for device > drivers in freebsd - I am referring to files > kern/subr_bus.c, bus.h, bus_private.h, isa/* etc. Use the source, luke :-) Seriously, subr_bus.c is quite nice to read if you read it togethers with, say, sys/pci/pci.c. That makes the concept quite clear. The developer's handbook might be worth reading for you, also there are some tutorials on the website which explain a little. Alex -- cat: /home/alex/.sig: No such file or directory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 2:48: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E82537B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 02:48:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 23 May 2001 11:48:04 +0100 Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9C03@l04.research.kpn.com> From: "Koster, K.J." To: 'FreeBSD Hackers mailing list' Cc: 'Markus Holmberg' Subject: Linux getcwd problems Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:48:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear All, I just ran into a problem with the linuxulator, triggered by the Linux JDK that I use for my development. Markus kindly pointed me to this PR: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=24315 The summary is that getcwd(3) under Linux emulation will fail really hard after a rmdir. Does anyone have time to sit down and fix this? You would be my hero (or heroin, as the case may be). Kees Jan ================================================ You are only young once, but you can stay immature all your life. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 2:55:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from newsguy.com (smtp.newsguy.com [209.155.56.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1491D37B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 02:55:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (ppp185-bsace7001.telebrasilia.net.br [200.181.80.185]) by newsguy.com (8.11.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f4N9r5F23673; Wed, 23 May 2001 02:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B0B88A1.BFB8D073@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 06:53:37 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,pt,en-GB,en-US,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shannon Hendrix Cc: Jason Andresen , "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <200105221816.f4MIGK1171051@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0AB4B1.78A0FB0A@mitre.org> <20010522212029.D2734@widomaker.com> <3B0B187D.47C98452@newsguy.com> <20010522223120.C5012@widomaker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Shannon Hendrix wrote: > > > And just to get things worse... :-) the test must be made on the *same* > > slice. If you configure two different slices, the one on the outer > > tracks will be faster. > > I cannot verify that with my drive, but my largest is 18GB so maybe > the difference is not as pronounced as on some newer drives like those > (currently) monster 70GB drives. It should be measurable. On one hand, more sectors per track, same time to read a single track = more bytes read per second. On the other hand, more sectors per track, more bytes per track, less tracks per same size, less track seek needed. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@the.secret.bsdconspiracy.net wow regex humor... I'm a geek To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 3:13:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from superconductor.rush.net (superconductor.rush.net [208.9.155.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC3FA37B424 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 03:13:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@superconductor.rush.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by superconductor.rush.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f4NAD1A07657; Wed, 23 May 2001 06:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 06:13:01 -0400 From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Koster, K.J." Cc: "'FreeBSD Hackers mailing list'" , "'Markus Holmberg'" Subject: Re: Linux getcwd problems Message-ID: <20010523061301.O17514@superconductor.rush.net> References: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9C03@l04.research.kpn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0us In-Reply-To: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9C03@l04.research.kpn.com>; from K.J.Koster@kpn.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 11:48:03AM +0100 X-all-your-base: are belong to us. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Koster, K.J. [010523 05:48] wrote: > Dear All, > > I just ran into a problem with the linuxulator, triggered by the Linux JDK > that I use for my development. > > Markus kindly pointed me to this PR: > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=24315 > > The summary is that getcwd(3) under Linux emulation will fail really > hard after a rmdir. > > Does anyone have time to sit down and fix this? You would be my hero (or > heroin, as the case may be). I've looked at your email and the PR, the problem that I have is that I have no clue as to what it should return. Can you give a suggestion and possibly site a refernece? Basically, WWLD (what would linux do)? -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 3:50:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 885) id D528037B422; Wed, 23 May 2001 03:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 03:50:43 -0700 From: Eric Melville To: "Albert D. Cahalan" Cc: ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010523035043.A77560@FreeBSD.org> References: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu>; from acahalan@cs.uml.edu on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 12:11:13AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The proposed filesystem is most likely Reiserfs. This is a true > journalling filesystem with a radically non-traditional layout. > It is no problem to put millions of files in a single directory. > (actually, the all-in-one approach performs better than a tree) > > XFS and JFS are similarly capable, but Reiserfs is well tested > and part of the official Linux kernel. You can get the Reiserfs > team to support you too, in case you want to bypass the normal > filesystem interface for even better performance. It should be noted that simply because something is tested and a part of a release, it is not automatically wonderful. My last experiance with linux was in the 2.2 days, and ended with a lost root filesystem while attempting to access an msdosfs drive. From what I've read, mixing reiserfs and nfs is about as exciting as the stock market has been in the last few months. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 4: 2: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253D837B424 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 04:02:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 23 May 2001 13:02:02 +0100 Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9C04@l04.research.kpn.com> From: "Koster, K.J." To: 'Alfred Perlstein' Cc: 'FreeBSD Hackers mailing list' Subject: RE: Linux getcwd problems Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:02:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear Alfred, > > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=3D24315 > >=20 > > The summary is that getcwd(3) under Linux emulation will fail = really > > hard after a rmdir. > >=20 > I've looked at your email and the PR, the problem that I have is that > I have no clue as to what it should return. Can you give a = suggestion > and possibly site a refernece? Basically, WWLD (what would linux = do)? >=20 Umm. I'm confused. WLWD is give me a useful value for cwd, given that = my cwd actually exists. What I see is this: % touch build.xml % mkdir gen % rmdir gen % ant Buildfile: build.xml =20 BUILD FAILED java.io.FileNotFoundException: i=C9/build.xml (No such file or = directory) ^^- note this It looks like that after a directory was removed from the cwd, the = Linux getcwd command returns garbage. The JDK uses getcwd routinely, to set = the user.dir (or some such) property. Ant uses that property to determine = what file to open, i.e. it opens (in a mix of C, Java and pseudocode): new FileInputStream(linux_getcwd() + "/build.xml") Since getcwd() returns garbage after a directory was deleted from the = cwd, the above fails with the exception mentioned earlier. I think it is safe to assume that on a Linux system, getcwd() returns meaningful information every time, under normal circumstances. :-) This is about as clear as I can describe the problem. Hope this helps. > > Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s = technology," > start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom. > Because today I know better. [Ghandi] :-) Kees Jan =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= You are only young once, but you can stay immature all your life. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 4:38:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8026937B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 04:38:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 23 May 2001 12:38:22 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:38:21 +0100 From: David Malone To: "Koster, K.J." Cc: 'Alfred Perlstein' , 'FreeBSD Hackers mailing list' Subject: Re: Linux getcwd problems Message-ID: <20010523123821.A52523@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9C04@l04.research.kpn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9C04@l04.research.kpn.com>; from K.J.Koster@kpn.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 01:02:01PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 01:02:01PM +0100, Koster, K.J. wrote: The problem seems to be that FreeBSD's getcwd library call will impliment the getcwd userland if the syscall fails or is unimplimented. There are times when the syscall fails in normal operation and you don't see this with the BSD stuff 'cos it is covered up by the userland implimentation. You can check this by kdumping a FreeBSD version of your cwd program and searching for the return value of the __getcwd syscall. The Linux emulation stuff just calls the FreeBSD syscall, but I guess the Linux libraries don't expect getcwd to fail, so they can't do the userland magic. I haven't had a chance to look at how hard it would be to fix the FreeBSD getcwd call to always work, or to fake the Linux stuff so that it somehow did the equivelent of the userland thing. David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 6:24:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A4937B424 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 06:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00999 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv2.mitre.org (mailsrv2.mitre.org [129.83.221.17]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15047 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nausicaa.mitre.org ([128.29.105.85]) by mailsrv2.mitre.org (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GDSIKY00.KVS; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:24:34 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:17:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Nadav Eiron , Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010522144728.B29988@xor.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: <20010523081344.R87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 May 2001, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 10:27:27PM +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote: > > I ran tests that I think are similar to what Jason ran on identically > > configured FreeBSD and Linux/ReiserFS machines. ResierFS is much much > > faster than UFS+softupdates on these tests. > > > > Linux (2.2.14-5 + ReiserFS): > > Time: > > 164 seconds total > > 97 seconds of transactions (103 per second) > > > > Files: > > 65052 created (396 per second) > > Creation alone: 60000 files (1090 per second) > > Mixed with transactions: 5052 files (52 per second) > > 4936 read (50 per second) > > 5063 appended (52 per second) > > 65052 deleted (396 per second) > > Deletion alone: 60104 files (5008 per second) > > Mixed with transactions: 4948 files (51 per second) > > > > Data: > > 24.83 megabytes read (155.01 kilobytes per second) > > 336.87 megabytes written (2.05 megabytes per second) > > > > FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE (ufs/softupdates): > > Did you enable write caching? You didn't mention, and it's off by > default in 4.3, but I think enabled by default on Linux. I tried to leave the FreeBSD and Linux boxes as unchanged as possible for my tests (they are lab machines that have other uses, although I made sure they were idle during the test periods). I left write caching enabled in the Linux boxes, and left it disabled on the FreeBSD boxes. Personally, I'm hesitant to enable write caching on FreeBSD because we tend to use it on machines where we really really don't want to lose data. Write caching is ok on the Linux machines because we use them as pure testbeds that we can reconstruct easily if their disks go south. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 6:28:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 311DD37B43E for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 06:28:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 71918 invoked by uid 1000); 23 May 2001 13:27:12 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:27:12 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: "Andresen,Jason R." Cc: Kris Kennaway , Nadav Eiron , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010523162712.P12889@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: "Andresen,Jason R." , Kris Kennaway , Nadav Eiron , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010522144728.B29988@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010523081344.R87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010523081344.R87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org>; from jandrese@mitre.org on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 08:17:12AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 08:17:12AM -0400, Andresen,Jason R. wrote: > On Tue, 22 May 2001, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 10:27:27PM +0300, Nadav Eiron wrote: > > > I ran tests that I think are similar to what Jason ran on identically > > > configured FreeBSD and Linux/ReiserFS machines. ResierFS is much much > > > faster than UFS+softupdates on these tests. > > > > > > Linux (2.2.14-5 + ReiserFS): > > > Time: > > > 164 seconds total > > > 97 seconds of transactions (103 per second) > > > > > > Files: > > > 65052 created (396 per second) > > > Creation alone: 60000 files (1090 per second) > > > Mixed with transactions: 5052 files (52 per second) > > > 4936 read (50 per second) > > > 5063 appended (52 per second) > > > 65052 deleted (396 per second) > > > Deletion alone: 60104 files (5008 per second) > > > Mixed with transactions: 4948 files (51 per second) > > > > > > Data: > > > 24.83 megabytes read (155.01 kilobytes per second) > > > 336.87 megabytes written (2.05 megabytes per second) > > > > > > FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE (ufs/softupdates): > > > > Did you enable write caching? You didn't mention, and it's off by > > default in 4.3, but I think enabled by default on Linux. > > I tried to leave the FreeBSD and Linux boxes as unchanged as possible for > my tests (they are lab machines that have other uses, although I made sure > they were idle during the test periods). > > I left write caching enabled in the Linux boxes, and left it disabled on > the FreeBSD boxes. Personally, I'm hesitant to enable write caching > on FreeBSD because we tend to use it on machines where we really really > don't want to lose data. Write caching is ok on the Linux machines > because we use them as pure testbeds that we can reconstruct easily if > their disks go south. If the tests on the Linux machines are made to simulate how those Linux machines would operate if used as production servers, then do that: configure the Linux machines exactly as if they were your production servers. That is, if you want write caching off on production servers, turn it off at test time. G'luck, Peter -- If you think this sentence is confusing, then change one pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 6:39:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B610E37B42C for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 06:39:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03235 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv2.mitre.org (mailsrv2.mitre.org [129.83.221.17]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17428 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nausicaa.mitre.org ([128.29.105.85]) by mailsrv2.mitre.org (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GDSJ9D00.9Z9; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:39:13 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:31:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <3B0B07C2.F8EA4839@newsguy.com> Message-ID: <20010523082618.L87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 May 2001, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Jason Andresen wrote: > > > > If only FreeBSD could boot from those funky M-Systems flash disks. > > It can. How? Nothing I found in the documentation indicated this, or gave any sort hint as to how I might go about doing it. The Linux driver has a hacked version of Lilo that has to be installed prior to even thinking of doing anything with the flash, but I found no equivelent for FreeBSDs boot1. FreeBSD can mount the disks just fine (I used a custom PicoBSD boot floppy to fix up the Linux install on the flash disk enough so that it would boot (the stupid script M-Systems provided installed a completely hosed system!)). This sort of information might be handy to have on freebsd.org. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 6:53:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D59C737B424 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 06:53:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05661 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv2.mitre.org (mailsrv2.mitre.org [129.83.221.17]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20216 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nausicaa.mitre.org ([128.29.105.85]) by mailsrv2.mitre.org (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GDSJWP00.CWH; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:53:13 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:45:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <3B0B089A.AA97F518@newsguy.com> Message-ID: <20010523083213.T87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 May 2001, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Jason Andresen wrote: > > > > Results: > > ufs+softupdates is a little slower than ext2fs+wc for low numbers of > > files, but scales better. I wish I had a Reiserfs partition to > > test with. > > Ext2fs is a non-contender. > > Note, though, that there is some very recent perfomance improvement on > very large directories known as dirpref (what changed, actually, was > dirpref's algorithm). This is NOT present on 4.3-RELEASE, though it > _might_ have since been committed to stable. The new dirpref code is mostly just a performance tweak. We can't compete with ReiserFS on large directories without a major improvement to the code, assuming the previous post was true and ReiserFS has some log time components where ufs has linear time components. Note that the improvement from using the new dirpref code is about 12%, which isn't bad, but still doesn't put us in the right ballpark. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 7: 6:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3371737B42C for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 07:06:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 23 May 2001 16:06:18 +0100 Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9C09@l04.research.kpn.com> From: "Koster, K.J." To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: technical comparison Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:06:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear All, An interview with Reiser just appeared on http://www.slashdot.org/ Just to add a little oil to the fire. :-) Kees Jan ================================================ You are only young once, but you can stay immature all your life. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 7:11: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 010DF37B424 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 07:11:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08625 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv2.mitre.org (mailsrv2.mitre.org [129.83.221.17]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23378 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nausicaa.mitre.org ([128.29.105.85]) by mailsrv2.mitre.org (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GDSKQB00.CXA; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:10:59 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:03:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: Shannon Hendrix Cc: Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010522210824.C2734@widomaker.com> Message-ID: <20010523085147.N87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 May 2001, Shannon Hendrix wrote: > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 09:31:34AM -0400, Jason Andresen wrote: > > > We only have three Linux boxes here (and one is a PC104 with a flash > > disk) and already I've had to reinstall the entire OS once when we had a > > power glitch. ext2fsck managed to destroy about 1/3 of the files on the > > system, in a pretty much random manner (the lib and etc were hit hard). > > This is not typical. Also, I have heard the same thing from other people > about flash disks. fs crash, fsck, and a mess afterwards. It would be > nice if you could use ufs and see if the same problem exists. The scary thing is that it was the attached harddrive that lost all of the files. The situitation is this: Attached HD: I just installed Redhat on the hard drive. I rebooted and the system booted off of the harddrive normally. Successful install. I logged into the system and started looking into rebuilding the kernel to include the binary only M-Systems modules when a co-worker accidentally unplugged the wrong plug (he was working on some nearby machines), unplugging the power supply I was using to power the hard drives (and pretty much crashing the PC104 system). I powered down the PC104 system, and we plugged everything in again. When I tried to reboot the system, Lilo couldn't even find the kernel. I pulled out the emergency resuce disc (RedHat's install disk) and booted it up. When I ran fsck on the drive, it found error after error on the drive. Eventually I had to ^C that fsck run and try it again with the -y option (my arm was getting tired). Once fsck was done / was pretty much a ghost town, at which point I decided to just reinstall the system. It's entirely possible that there is something I could have done to prevent fsck from clearing out the filesystem, but it certainly isn't obvious from the manual, and I've never seen a FreeBSD system do that. Also, for anybody who says the pull the power test isn't realistic, I can assure you that power failures DO happen (probably less in your area than mine (I hope!)) and not planning for them only brings disaster later when you have a room with 1000 servers lose power. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 7:15:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy2.mitre.org (smtpproxy2.mitre.org [128.29.154.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7040037B424 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 07:15:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv2.mitre.org (avsrv2.mitre.org [128.29.154.4]) by smtpproxy2.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12876 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv2.mitre.org (mailsrv2.mitre.org [129.83.221.17]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24302 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nausicaa.mitre.org ([128.29.105.85]) by mailsrv2.mitre.org (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GDSKXC00.90Q; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:15:12 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:07:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: Shannon Hendrix Cc: Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010522212029.D2734@widomaker.com> Message-ID: <20010523090413.N87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 May 2001, Shannon Hendrix wrote: > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 02:49:21PM -0400, Jason Andresen wrote: > > > 60000 files took ~15 minutes to create as is. I'm going to have to wait > > until tonight to run larger sets. 2.2.16 is what we have here. > > I'm still waiting to see how much faster ReiserFS is. > > I'm willing to overnight your test if you want. Do you have it packaged > up to send? It would be interesting just to get numbers from a Linux > system with a modern kernel. 2.4.1 gave me enough of a speed boost to > put off another FreeBSD install until I fix some problems there. > > I cannot test FreeBSD with SCSI right now so my system will be an > inequal set of results. > > I would offer to test NetBSD as well, but I suppose no one would be > interested in that. The test is 'postmark'. It is in /usr/ports/benchmarks, but the distribution is a single C file. Just compile it with: gcc -O -o postmark postmark.c on all of the systems. That's what the port uses. Your system should be unladen but running in multiuser mode and the test directory you choose should be empty. The options you are interested in are: set transactions 10000 <-- What I used for all of my tests set number set location /path/to/empty/local/directory run To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 7:22:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD9A37B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 07:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10455 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv2.mitre.org (mailsrv2.mitre.org [129.83.221.17]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25653 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nausicaa.mitre.org ([128.29.105.85]) by mailsrv2.mitre.org (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GDSL9V00.LY6 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:22:43 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:15:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010522223120.C5012@widomaker.com> Message-ID: <20010523091210.S87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just finished the FreeBSD test with vfs.vmiodirenable=1 (it was 0 before) 60000 simlultanious files, 10000 transactions, FreeBSD 4.0-Release+Softupdates with write cacheing disabled. Results are pretty much unchanged. Do you have to enable vmiodirenable at boot time for it to take affect? Time: 1286 seconds total 505 seconds of transactions (19 per second) Files: 65065 created (50 per second) Creation alone: 60000 files (85 per second) Mixed with transactions: 5065 files (10 per second) 5078 read (10 per second) 4921 appended (9 per second) 65065 deleted (50 per second) Deletion alone: 60130 files (761 per second) Mixed with transactions: 4935 files (9 per second) Data: 26.01 megabytes read (20.23 kilobytes per second) 325.12 megabytes written (252.82 kilobytes per second) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 7:28:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFBBE37B424 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 07:28:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11627 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv2.mitre.org (mailsrv2.mitre.org [129.83.221.17]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26679 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nausicaa.mitre.org ([128.29.105.85]) by mailsrv2.mitre.org (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GDSLJ100.LYG; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:28:13 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:20:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: Terry Lambert Cc: Nadav Eiron , Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <3B0B2824.949B119A@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20010523091618.P87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 May 2001, Terry Lambert wrote: > I don't understand the inability to perform the trivial > design engineering necessary to keep from needing to put > 60,000 files in one directory. > > However, we can take it as a given that people who need > to do this are incapable of doing computer science. > > I would suggest two things: > > 1) If write caching is off on the Linux disks, turn > it off on the FreeBSD disks. > > 2) " " -- and then turn it on on both. > > 3) Modify the test to delete the files based on a > directory traversal, instead of promiscuous > knowledge of the file names, which is cheating > to make the lookups appear faster. > > (the rationale behind this last is that people who can't > design around needing 60,000 files in a single directory > are probably going to to be unable to correctly remember > the names of the files they created, since if they could, > then they could remember things like ./a/a/aardvark or > ./a/b/abominable). The problem comes along when you are using a third party application that keeps a bazillion files in a directory, which was the problem that spawned this entire thread. Why is knowing the file names cheating? It is almost certain that the application will know the names of it's own files (and won't be grepping the entire directory every time it needs to find a file). I doubt a human is ever going to want to work in a directory where you have 60000 files lying about, but an application might easily be written to work in just such conditions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 7:33:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C795937B42C for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 07:33:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12612 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv2.mitre.org (mailsrv2.mitre.org [129.83.221.17]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24966 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:18:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nausicaa.mitre.org ([128.29.105.85]) by mailsrv2.mitre.org (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GDSL2R00.M1G; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:18:27 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:11:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: Shannon Hendrix Cc: Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010522222328.A5012@widomaker.com> Message-ID: <20010523091028.H87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 22 May 2001, Shannon Hendrix wrote: > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 12:03:33PM -0400, Jason Andresen wrote: > > > The data: > > > > Hardware: > > Both machines have the same hardware on paper (although it is TWO > > machines, > > YMMV). > > PII-300 > > Intel PIIX4 ATA33 controller > > IBM-DHEA-38451 8063MB ata0-master using UDMA33 HD > > > > Note: all variables are left at default unless mentioned. > > > > 10000 transactions, 500 files. > > What did you set size to? How much memory on the machine? Size was left at the default. The machines have 64MB of main memory. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 7:35:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [194.222.196.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB60437B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 07:35:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4NEZ4Y10585; Wed, 23 May 2001 15:35:04 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4NEZ2F04633; Wed, 23 May 2001 15:35:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200105231435.f4NEZ2F04633@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Ollivier Robert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: ppp problems on 4.3-RELEASE and PPPoE In-Reply-To: Message from Ollivier Robert of "Tue, 22 May 2001 19:02:55 +0200." <20010522190255.A11683@tara.freenix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:35:02 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmm, I wonder if you can catch it again and do a ``set log local physical'' and run ``tcpdump -i XXX -e not ip'' on the interface at the same time ? A ``ping -c 1'' should then show if ppp's sending the data out, and if it is, if ng_ether is forwarding it. I'm a little concerned about the MRU of 1500 too. The peer seems broken. I have patches to fix this, but they've been paid for as part of another project so will have to wait 'till the source is released. If the ping packet goes out but nothing comes back it may indicate that the peer is hung up trying to send a 1500+8 byte packet across an Ethernet that can only handle 1500.... > According to Brian Somers: > > If pppctl is still working (ppp will talk to it), then it may be > > worth seeing what ``show physical'' and ``show timer'' say (is the > > link open, or is ppp waiting for something to happen via a timeout?). > > Locked again with a pppctl attached. > > show timer > -=-=- > IPCP throughput timer[0x80a37d8]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.00s, state = running > physical throughput timer[0x80af068]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.90s, state = running > hdlc timer[0x80b1d84]: freq = 60.00s, next = 22.90s, state = running > -=-=- > > show physical > -=-=- > Name: deflink > State: open (established) > Device: PPPoE:ed0: > Link Type: background > Connect Count: 1 > Queued Packets: 0 > Phone Number: N/A > > Defaults: > Device List: "PPPoE:ed0:" > Characteristics: sync, cs8, no parity, CTS/RTS on > CD check delay: device specific > > Connect time: 24:08:11 > 14864337 octets in, 8655370 octets out > 56740 packets in, 56238 packets out > overall 270 bytes/sec > currently 0 bytes/sec in, 0 bytes/sec out (over the last 5 secs) > peak 70148 bytes/sec on Mon May 21 20:02:16 2001 > -=-=- > > show lcp > -=-=- > PPP ON keltia> show lcp > deflink: LCP [Opened] > his side: MRU 1492, ACCMAP ffffffff, PROTOCOMP off, ACFCOMP off, > MAGIC 6317ffaa, MRRU 0, SHORTSEQ off, REJECT 0000 > my side: MRU 1500, ACCMAP 00000000, PROTOCOMP off, ACFCOMP off, > MAGIC 0c7a6a1f, MRRU 0, SHORTSEQ on, REJECT 0000 > > Defaults: MRU = 1492, ACCMAP = 00000000 > LQR period = 30s, Open Mode = active (delay 1s) > FSM retry = 3s, max 5 Config REQs, 5 Term REQs > Ident: > > Negotiation: > ACFCOMP = disabled & denied > CHAP = disabled & accepted > CHAP80 = disabled & accepted > LANMan = disabled & accepted > CHAP81 = disabled & accepted > LQR = disabled & denied > PAP = disabled & accepted > PROTOCOMP = disabled & accepted > -=-=- > > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr > FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 8: 1:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9325A37B43C for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 08:01:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.185.98] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 152a8T-000JsB-00; Wed, 23 May 2001 11:01:18 -0400 Received: from daydream (mail@daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f4NEcHh14565; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 152Zm9-0003QY-00; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:38:13 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:38:13 -0400 From: Shannon Hendrix To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010523103811.A13163@widomaker.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200105221816.f4MIGK1171051@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0AB4B1.78A0FB0A@mitre.org> <20010522212029.D2734@widomaker.com> <3B0B187D.47C98452@newsguy.com> <20010522223120.C5012@widomaker.com> <3B0B88A1.BFB8D073@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B0B88A1.BFB8D073@newsguy.com>; from dcs@newsguy.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 06:53:37AM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 06:53:37AM -0300, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > I cannot verify that with my drive, but my largest is 18GB so maybe > > the difference is not as pronounced as on some newer drives like those > > (currently) monster 70GB drives. > > It should be measurable. Actually, I edited too much. I have seen a difference, but it was too small to care abot on my system. These are 7200rpm 18GB drives too. The other variances in filesystem performance seem to overshadow the difference. The only thing I ever did to pick up some speed was to move some data on a raw device to the faster tracks. I was streaming it in so the speedup was good. I also picked up some performance on one Linux system by putting swap in the faster tracks. But for the most part, I've never been able to tell. I have read that on the 40-80GB drives, it's very noticeable. In fact, the IBM Ultrastars are supposed to be faster than their electronics can handle on the very outer tracks. -- "Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny." -- Unknown | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________ / | \ s h a n n o n @ w i d o m a k e r . c o m _/ | \_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 8:32:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.iside.net (ns2.iside.net [212.73.214.202]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C36537B42C for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 08:32:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julien@iside.net) X-Virus-Protected-by-iSide: McAfee virus scanning engine Received: from [193.251.60.11] (HELO yoshi) by mail.iside.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.2) with SMTP id 3523114; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:27:21 +0200 Message-ID: <01a701c0e39e$1bf590b0$662d44c3@yoshi> From: "julien" To: "Andresen,Jason R." , References: <20010523091210.S87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> Subject: Re: technical comparison Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:36:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I tried your tests on a quite different configuration, a PIII 800 with 1GB ram, with an AcceleRAID 170 controller and a single RAID5 pack of 4*8GB IBM SCSI drives. The system is a 4.3-rc2, NO softupdates, default configuration. Here are the results : pm>set transactions 10000 pm>set number 60000 pm>set location /root/test/ pm>run Creating files...Done Performing transactions..........Done Deleting files...Done Time: 1715 seconds total 199 seconds of transactions (50 per second) Files: 65065 created (37 per second) Creation alone: 60000 files (73 per second) Mixed with transactions: 5065 files (25 per second) 5078 read (25 per second) 4921 appended (24 per second) 65065 deleted (37 per second) Deletion alone: 60130 files (86 per second) Mixed with transactions: 4935 files (24 per second) Data: 26.01 megabytes read (15.17 kilobytes per second) 325.12 megabytes written (189.58 kilobytes per second) -- ------------------------------- --> julien@iside.net ------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 3:15 PM Subject: Re: technical comparison > I just finished the FreeBSD test with > > vfs.vmiodirenable=1 (it was 0 before) > > 60000 simlultanious files, 10000 transactions, FreeBSD > 4.0-Release+Softupdates with write cacheing disabled. Results are pretty > much unchanged. Do you have to enable vmiodirenable at boot time for it > to take affect? > > Time: > 1286 seconds total > 505 seconds of transactions (19 per second) > > Files: > 65065 created (50 per second) > Creation alone: 60000 files (85 per second) > Mixed with transactions: 5065 files (10 per second) > 5078 read (10 per second) > 4921 appended (9 per second) > 65065 deleted (50 per second) > Deletion alone: 60130 files (761 per second) > Mixed with transactions: 4935 files (9 per second) > > Data: > 26.01 megabytes read (20.23 kilobytes per second) > 325.12 megabytes written (252.82 kilobytes per second) > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 9: 1:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24B737B424 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:01:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.185.98] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 152b4R-000Nu0-00; Wed, 23 May 2001 12:01:12 -0400 Received: from daydream (mail@daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f4NFvoh14987; Wed, 23 May 2001 11:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 152b1C-0003Tg-00; Wed, 23 May 2001 11:57:50 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:57:50 -0400 From: Shannon Hendrix To: "Andresen,Jason R." Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010523115748.C13163@widomaker.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Andresen,Jason R." , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20010522210824.C2734@widomaker.com> <20010523085147.N87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010523085147.N87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org>; from jandrese@mitre.org on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:03:37AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:03:37AM -0400, Andresen,Jason R. wrote: > The scary thing is that it was the attached harddrive that lost all of the > files. The situitation is this: [snip] Sorry to hear that, but like I said, it isn't typical. ext2 in it's early days, an ext before that were really bad. But I have few problems with it these days. I've lost more ufs filesystems than I have ext2, but I don't assume my results are typical: I know ufs is better. However, ext2's problems are grossly exaggerated. > It's entirely possible that there is something I could have done to > prevent fsck from clearing out the filesystem, but it certainly isn't > obvious from the manual, and I've never seen a FreeBSD system do that. Nothing much you can do unless you happen to know ext2 inside and out, and fix it manually. It's not normal for ext2 to die like that, and be unable to recover. Over the years I have had more bizarre, inexplicable OS problems on Intel PCs than any other. > Also, for anybody who says the pull the power test isn't realistic, I can > assure you that power failures DO happen (probably less in your area than My point was that yanking power only tests one aspect of the filesystem. Chosing one based on passing or not passing that test isn't a good idea. > mine (I hope!)) and not planning for them only brings disaster later when > you have a room with 1000 servers lose power. Well, a UPS system is as important in any system you care about as the computers and operating systems. If you run 1000 servers and they can lose power, you're on borrowed time anyway. Where I live, the power gets worse every year. I lost quite a few ext filesystems, but only a couple of ufs and ext2 filesystems. Then I bought a 1920VA UPS and it's no longer an issue. I just found it easier to not lose power than to worry about which filesystem recovers from it better. -- "There are nowadays professors of philosophy, but not philosophers." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 9: 5: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951D537B423; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:05:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from elischer.org (InterJet.elischer.org [192.168.1.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA96837; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B0BDEBD.5AAE6B12@elischer.org> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:01:01 -0700 From: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander Langer Cc: SJ , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device driver questions References: <20010523003414.51600.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> <20010523085857.B1103@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alexander Langer wrote: > > Thus spake SJ (sandejain@rocketmail.com): > > > The developer's handbook might be worth reading for you, also there > are some tutorials on the website which explain a little. Also check out -current's /usr/share/examples/drivers/make_device_driver.sh > > Alex > > -- > cat: /home/alex/.sig: No such file or directory > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000-2001 ---> X_.---._/ v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 9:15:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.de (mailout05.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B05F37B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:15:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from D.Rock@t-online.de) Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 152bI5-0001k4-04; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:15:17 +0200 Received: from server.rock.net (340029380333-0001@[62.155.178.122]) by fmrl03.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 152bIZ-27dkcSC; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:15:47 +0200 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by server.rock.net (8.11.2/8.11.2/Rock) id f4NAYLK08027; Wed, 23 May 2001 12:34:21 +0200 (MEST) From: "D. Rock" X-Authentication-Warning: server.rock.net: nobody set sender to rock@rock.net using -f To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <990614061.3b0b922d5710b@rock.dyn.dhs.org> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:34:21 +0200 (MEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> <3B0A8DD5.9A38449B@mitre.org> <3B0B089A.AA97F518@newsguy.com> In-Reply-To: <3B0B089A.AA97F518@newsguy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.3 X-Originating-IP: 193.158.252.43 X-Sender: 340029380333-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Zitiere "Daniel C. Sobral" : > Note, though, that there is some very recent perfomance improvement on > very large directories known as dirpref (what changed, actually, was > dirpref's algorithm). This is NOT present on 4.3-RELEASE, though it > _might_ have since been committed to stable. I don't think dirpref should help in this case. IIRC the dirpref patches change the algorithm choosing the cg of subdirectories relative to their parent. Since postmark by default only uses one directory, there should be no benefit. -- Daniel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 9:15:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20DB837B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:15:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 152bIS-000PbE-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:15:40 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f4NGFdX43987 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:15:39 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:15:39 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: removing inb()/outb() from devices Message-ID: <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'd like to finalize the newbus work by changing inb()/outb() calls to bus_space_write calls. Is there a device where this has been partially done already? I'd like to see the old and new styles, then i would fix the vpo/imm zip driver first, since i know that code well. After that, i could start working my way through the tree. jcm -- "I drank WHAT ?!" - Socrates To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 9:19:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9983337B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:19:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00649 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 12:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv2.mitre.org (mailsrv2.mitre.org [129.83.221.17]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17601 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 12:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nausicaa.mitre.org ([128.29.105.85]) by mailsrv2.mitre.org (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GDSQP400.I6A; Wed, 23 May 2001 12:19:52 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:12:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: Shannon Hendrix Cc: Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010523115748.C13163@widomaker.com> Message-ID: <20010523110808.O87294-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 May 2001, Shannon Hendrix wrote: > Where I live, the power gets worse every year. I lost quite a few ext > filesystems, but only a couple of ufs and ext2 filesystems. Then I > bought a 1920VA UPS and it's no longer an issue. I just found it easier > to not lose power than to worry about which filesystem recovers from it > better. One of the funny things about the place I used to work (which will remain unnamed) was how the UPS folks were always testing their systems by pulling the plug on the main power to the building. The problem was they apparently hired untrained monkeys to wire up the UPS systems (which were just a few rooms chock full of batteries) and managed to kill power to the entire building (including the computer rooms) at least once every three months. This was doubly annoying because we had well over 100 full RAID racks (with 80 disks in each rack) in the facility. Hard drives, as most of you probablly know, are most likly to fail on boot time, so every time one of the brain cases managed to kill the power in the CRs, we had to spend the rest of the day replacing failed RAID drives. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 9:54:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-39.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D70437B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:54:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DE0A966B5F; Wed, 23 May 2001 09:54:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:54:42 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: "Andresen,Jason R." Cc: Kris Kennaway , Nadav Eiron , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010523095442.B9896@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010522144728.B29988@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010523081344.R87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010523081344.R87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org>; from jandrese@mitre.org on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 08:17:12AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 08:17:12AM -0400, Andresen,Jason R. wrote: > > Did you enable write caching? You didn't mention, and it's off by > > default in 4.3, but I think enabled by default on Linux. >=20 > I tried to leave the FreeBSD and Linux boxes as unchanged as possible for > my tests (they are lab machines that have other uses, although I made sure > they were idle during the test periods). >=20 > I left write caching enabled in the Linux boxes, and left it disabled on > the FreeBSD boxes. Personally, I'm hesitant to enable write caching > on FreeBSD because we tend to use it on machines where we really really > don't want to lose data. Write caching is ok on the Linux machines > because we use them as pure testbeds that we can reconstruct easily if > their disks go south. That's all well and good, but I thought the aim here was to compare Linux and FreeBSD performance on as level playing field as possible? You're not measuring FS performance, you're measuring FS performance plus cache performance, so your numbers so far tell you nothing concrete. Kris --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7C+tSWry0BWjoQKURAvpeAKDPzVx0Uycuc74jS2gIYLIgK3F9ZQCghkkk 1YaIT9TgUDn2wkwd75Z9+rY= =LnEO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 10:17:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (kawoserv.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.180.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4626137B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:17:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@big.endian.de) Received: from zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.181.28]) by kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA14695; Wed, 23 May 2001 19:04:15 +0200 Received: by zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D892014CD0; Wed, 23 May 2001 19:04:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:04:15 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: j mckitrick Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: removing inb()/outb() from devices Message-ID: <20010523190415.C4150@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> References: <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 05:15:39PM +0100 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake j mckitrick (jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org): > I'd like to finalize the newbus work by changing inb()/outb() calls to > bus_space_write calls. Is there a device where this has been partially done > already? I'd like to see the old and new styles, then i would fix the It has been done to sys/dev/ed/ about half a year ago. Alex -- cat: /home/alex/.sig: No such file or directory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 10:17:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tara.freenix.org (keltia.freenix.org [62.4.20.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A8C637B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:17:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@tara.freenix.org) Received: by tara.freenix.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 101) id 653A1200; Wed, 23 May 2001 19:17:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:17:31 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: Brian Somers Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass Subject: Re: ppp problems on 4.3-RELEASE and PPPoE Message-ID: <20010523191731.A15325@tara.freenix.org> Mail-Followup-To: Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass References: <200105211232.f4LCWDb22768@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105211232.f4LCWDb22768@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org>; from brian@Awfulhak.org on Mon, May 21, 2001 at 01:32:13PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT K6-3D/266 & 2x PPro/200 SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to Brian Somers: > Brett Glass (cc'd) has complained about a similar problem where it > seems that the ng_pppoe node is locked up. I can't reproduce the > problem here though :( Does the following help you : -=-=- tun0: Timer: ---- Begin of Timer Service List--- tun0: Timer: physical throughput timer[0x80af068]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.00s, state = running tun0: Timer: IPCP throughput timer[0x80a37d8]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.60s, state = running tun0: Timer: hdlc timer[0x80b1d84]: freq = 60.00s, next = 55.50s, state = running tun0: Timer: ---- End of Timer Service List --- tun0: Timer: timer_Start: Inserting physical throughput timer[0x80af068] before hdlc timer[0x80b1d84], delta = 4 tun0: Timer: tun: fdset(r) 3 tun0: Timer: deflink(ctrl): fdset(r) 0 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(r) 1 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(e) 1 tun0: Timer: server: fdset(r) 6 tun0: Timer: prompt 127.0.0.1:60676: fdset(r) 2 tun0: Timer: Select returns -1 tun0: Timer: timer_Start: Inserting IPCP throughput timer[0x80a37d8] before hdlc timer[0x80b1d84], delta = 6 tun0: Timer: tun: fdset(r) 3 tun0: Timer: deflink(ctrl): fdset(r) 0 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(r) 1 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(e) 1 tun0: Timer: server: fdset(r) 6 tun0: Timer: prompt 127.0.0.1:60676: fdset(r) 2 tun0: Timer: Select returns -1 tun0: Timer: ---- Begin of Timer Service List--- tun0: Timer: physical throughput timer[0x80af068]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.00s, state = running tun0: Timer: IPCP throughput timer[0x80a37d8]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.60s, state = running tun0: Timer: hdlc timer[0x80b1d84]: freq = 60.00s, next = 54.50s, state = running tun0: Timer: ---- End of Timer Service List --- tun0: Timer: timer_Start: Inserting physical throughput timer[0x80af068] before hdlc timer[0x80b1d84], delta = 4 tun0: Timer: tun: fdset(r) 3 tun0: Timer: deflink(ctrl): fdset(r) 0 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(r) 1 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(e) 1 tun0: Timer: server: fdset(r) 6 tun0: Timer: prompt 127.0.0.1:60676: fdset(r) 2 tun0: Timer: Select returns -1 tun0: Timer: timer_Start: Inserting IPCP throughput timer[0x80a37d8] before hdlc timer[0x80b1d84], delta = 6 tun0: Timer: tun: fdset(r) 3 tun0: Timer: deflink(ctrl): fdset(r) 0 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(r) 1 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(e) 1 tun0: Timer: server: fdset(r) 6 tun0: Timer: prompt 127.0.0.1:60676: fdset(r) 2 tun0: Timer: Select returns -1 tun0: Timer: ---- Begin of Timer Service List--- tun0: Timer: physical throughput timer[0x80af068]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.00s, state = running tun0: Timer: IPCP throughput timer[0x80a37d8]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.60s, state = running tun0: Timer: hdlc timer[0x80b1d84]: freq = 60.00s, next = 53.50s, state = running tun0: Timer: ---- End of Timer Service List --- tun0: Timer: timer_Start: Inserting physical throughput timer[0x80af068] before hdlc timer[0x80b1d84], delta = 4 tun0: Timer: tun: fdset(r) 3 tun0: Timer: deflink(ctrl): fdset(r) 0 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(r) 1 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(e) 1 tun0: Timer: server: fdset(r) 6 tun0: Timer: prompt 127.0.0.1:60676: fdset(r) 2 stun0: Timer: Select returns -1 etun0: Timer: timer_Start: Inserting IPCP throughput timer[0x80a37d8] before hdlc timer[0x80b1d84], delta = 6 tun0: Timer: tun: fdset(r) 3 tun0: Timer: deflink(ctrl): fdset(r) 0 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(r) 1 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(e) 1 tun0: Timer: server: fdset(r) 6 tun0: Timer: prompt 127.0.0.1:60676: fdset(r) 2 ttun0: Timer: Select returns -1 tun0: Timer: ---- Begin of Timer Service List--- tun0: Timer: physical throughput timer[0x80af068]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.00s, state = running tun0: Timer: IPCP throughput timer[0x80a37d8]: freq = 1.00s, next = 0.60s, state = running tun0: Timer: hdlc timer[0x80b1d84]: freq = 60.00s, next = 52.50s, state = running tun0: Timer: ---- End of Timer Service List --- tun0: Timer: timer_Start: Inserting physical throughput timer[0x80af068] before hdlc timer[0x80b1d84], delta = 4 tun0: Timer: tun: fdset(r) 3 tun0: Timer: deflink(ctrl): fdset(r) 0 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(r) 1 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(e) 1 tun0: Timer: server: fdset(r) 6 tun0: Timer: prompt 127.0.0.1:60676: fdset(r) 2 tun0: Timer: Select returns -1 tun0: Timer: timer_Start: Inserting IPCP throughput timer[0x80a37d8] before hdlc timer[0x80b1d84], delta = 6 tun0: Timer: tun: fdset(r) 3 tun0: Timer: deflink(ctrl): fdset(r) 0 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(r) 1 tun0: Timer: deflink: fdset(e) 1 tun0: Timer: server: fdset(r) 6 tun0: Timer: prompt 127.0.0.1:60676: fdset(r) 2 -=-=- Nothing really interesting from 'tcpdump -n -i ed0 not ip'... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 10:36:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [194.222.196.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C6E937B42C for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:36:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4NHaEY11642; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:36:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4NHaCF07985; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:36:12 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200105231736.f4NHaCF07985@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Brett Glass Subject: Re: ppp problems on 4.3-RELEASE and PPPoE In-Reply-To: Message from Ollivier Robert of "Wed, 23 May 2001 19:17:31 +0200." <20010523191731.A15325@tara.freenix.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:36:12 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > According to Brian Somers: > > Brett Glass (cc'd) has complained about a similar problem where it > > seems that the ng_pppoe node is locked up. I can't reproduce the > > problem here though :( > > Does the following help you : [.....] Not really - I think we need ``physical'' logs so that we can see if stuff is actually being written to the netgraph node. The ``timer'' diagnostics are too verbose to be of use here. The idea is to do the ``ping -c1'', and if everything were working, see the physical log show the packet being written to netgraph and then netgraph putting it on the wire. > Nothing really interesting from 'tcpdump -n -i ed0 not ip'... As in nothing at all ? I wonder what the last ``not ip'' traffic to be written was - perhaps the netgraph node thinks it's closed. > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr > FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 10:38: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web13404.mail.yahoo.com (web13404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5452237B423 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:38:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sandejain@rocketmail.com) Message-ID: <20010523173800.84311.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.17.136.129] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 23 May 2001 10:38:00 PDT Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:38:00 -0700 (PDT) From: SJ Subject: Re: Device driver questions To: Alexander Langer Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010523085857.B1103@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --- Alexander Langer wrote: > Thus spake SJ (sandejain@rocketmail.com): > > Hi! > > > 1. "ioconf.c" contains struct config_resource and > > config_device definitions for declarations in > > "config" file. But I noticed that for some > devices > > e.g. device atadisk > > device atapicd > > ... > > the corresponding lines in ioconf.c are > missing?? > > I think it's because ata is a self-identifying bus. > Not sure, though. Are any PCI-only devices listed? The configuration contains the following two lines: device pci0 device pci1 for which the corresponding ioconf.c output is: struct config_resource pci0_resources[] = { }; #define pci0_count 0 struct config_resource pci1_resources[] = { }; #define pci1_count 0 > > > 3. File naming question: > > whats the reasoning behind having "bus.h" and > > "bus_private.h"....whats the significance of > > "private" here. > > drivers include bus.h, kernel does also include > bus_private.h But still the name "private" confuses me...according to me it should have been "bus_public.c". Any comments? thanks for your help sandeep > > > 4. concept behind having devclasses...I know that > > > devclasses for a particular bus holds devices > and > > device drivers for that bus. But then whats the > > > need for defining a devclass for each driver we > > > write ? > > Because you can hold multpiple devices that are > enumerated, e.g. xl0, > xl1, ... > The devclass is unique for each driver, but not for > different busses. > You can have ed0 on ISA and ed1 on PCI for example, > using the same > devclass. > If ISA and PCI subdrivers are using a different > devclass, the > enumeration breaks. > > > 5. Any poniters to literature which explains the > > design philosophy and code specific help for > device > > drivers in freebsd - I am referring to files > > kern/subr_bus.c, bus.h, bus_private.h, isa/* > etc. > > Use the source, luke :-) > Seriously, subr_bus.c is quite nice to read if you > read it togethers > with, say, sys/pci/pci.c. > That makes the concept quite clear. > > The developer's handbook might be worth reading for > you, also there > are some tutorials on the website which explain a > little. > > Alex > > -- > cat: /home/alex/.sig: No such file or directory __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 11: 8:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840CF37B440 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 11:07:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18447 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 14:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv2.mitre.org (mailsrv2.mitre.org [129.83.221.17]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08350 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 14:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nausicaa.mitre.org ([128.29.105.85]) by mailsrv2.mitre.org (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GDSVP400.FAS; Wed, 23 May 2001 14:07:52 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:00:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Nadav Eiron , Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010523095442.B9896@xor.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: <20010523125626.V87377-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 May 2001, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 08:17:12AM -0400, Andresen,Jason R. wrote: > > > > Did you enable write caching? You didn't mention, and it's off by > > > default in 4.3, but I think enabled by default on Linux. > > > > I tried to leave the FreeBSD and Linux boxes as unchanged as possible for > > my tests (they are lab machines that have other uses, although I made sure > > they were idle during the test periods). > > > > I left write caching enabled in the Linux boxes, and left it disabled on > > the FreeBSD boxes. Personally, I'm hesitant to enable write caching > > on FreeBSD because we tend to use it on machines where we really really > > don't want to lose data. Write caching is ok on the Linux machines > > because we use them as pure testbeds that we can reconstruct easily if > > their disks go south. > > That's all well and good, but I thought the aim here was to compare > Linux and FreeBSD performance on as level playing field as possible? > You're not measuring FS performance, you're measuring FS performance > plus cache performance, so your numbers so far tell you nothing > concrete. Yes, they tell us that FreeBSD with softupdates and no write cache performs better in large cases than Linux with ext2fs and write caching enabled. Also my FreeBSD 4.0 boxes don't have the hw.ata.wc knob, so it's harder for me to test this. Also, I don't know how ones goes about disabling the write cache in Linux without recompiling the kernel (which we have some custom mods in place, so I'm reluctant to do this). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 11:27:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E23E37B423 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 11:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 152dLf-0003xV-00; Wed, 23 May 2001 19:27:07 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f4NIR7m47017; Wed, 23 May 2001 19:27:07 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:27:06 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Alexander Langer Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: removing inb()/outb() from devices Message-ID: <20010523192706.A46989@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010523190415.C4150@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20010523190415.C4150@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d>; from alex@big.endian.de on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 07:04:15PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 07:04:15PM +0200, Alexander Langer wrote: | Thus spake j mckitrick (jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org): | | > I'd like to finalize the newbus work by changing inb()/outb() calls to | > bus_space_write calls. Is there a device where this has been partially done | > already? I'd like to see the old and new styles, then i would fix the | | It has been done to sys/dev/ed/ about half a year ago. Found it! Thanks. jcm -- "I drank WHAT ?!" - Socrates To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 13:48:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7866937B424 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 13:48:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id n.84.1653a8bf (25306) for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 16:47:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: <84.1653a8bf.283d7bfc@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:47:56 EDT Subject: Re: technical comparison To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tell them to fire 20K packets/second at the linux box and watch it crumble. Linux has lots of little kludges to make it appear faster on some benchmarks, but from a networking standpoint it cant handle significant network loads. Bryan > > Hi, > > > > I appoligize if this is the improper channel for this sort of > >discussion, but it is in the best interests of the FreeBSD following, > >atleast, within my orginization. > > > > I work in an environment consisting of 300+ systems, all FreeBSD > >and Solaris, along with lots of EMC and F5 stuff. Our engineering division > >has been working on a dynamic content server and search engine for the > >past 2.5 years. They have consistently not met up to performance and > >throughput requirements and have always blamed our use of FreeBSD for it. > >We have humored them time and time again; i.e. they once claimed the lack > >of some sort of RAID was keeping them from meeting their requirements, > >when he had already thrown brute amounts of hardware at their application. > >When we setup a load-testing environment with multiple types of RAIDs, all > >the systems, including the one without any sort of RAID performed > >identically. And poorly, at that. > > > > We have had a recent change in departmental structure, which > >unfortunately, weakened the more technical side of the top of the food > >chain. They have taken this as another opportunity to push for Linux-use > >within our environment. We do not want, nor feel the need for introducing > >another OS into the environment. > > > > The following are the points that the head of engineering claimed > >were their requirements and our shortcoming, which Linux would handle > >well: > > > >--- > > > >a) A machine that has fast character operations > > > >b) A *supported* Oracle client > > > >c) A filesystem that will be fast in light of tens of thousands of > > files in a single directory (maybe even hundreds of thousands) > > > >Requirement a) means that it won't run well on a Sparc processor as > >they are notoriously bad at character addressing, and since search > >makes extensive use of character operations (as does *any* web > >application server for that matter), using a Sparc processor will be a > >waste since the x86 architecture (AMD's and Crusoe's especially) do it > >much better. > > > >Requirement b) means it won't be FreeBSD. Yes, you can run Linux apps > >under emulation, but I'd bet dollars for doughnuts that this will be a > >support nightmare if we can even get it to work. > > > >Requirement c) means it won't be Solaris or FreeBSD since neither of > >them have a filesystem which handles this effectively. > > > >Linux on Intel fits the bill because it meets these three requirements > >*very* effectively. > > > >--- > > > > I find them to be mostly silly points -- (a) touching on integer > >math -- pretty moot point given the real meat of this. (b) is wrong, since > >there is a native port of the oracle client and (c) is just silly -- I'm > >sure softupdates on a modern BSD ufs is loads faster than ext2fs. > > > > Folks, please give me some real technical ammo -- reference > >internals, give a real technical comparison if possible. I don't believe > >this is some lame FreeBSD/Linux comparison -- I'm simply trying to > >tactfully and effectively deal with a zealot. :-) > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > -charles. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 14: 4:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy2.mitre.org (smtpproxy2.mitre.org [128.29.154.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C09937B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 14:04:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv2.mitre.org (avsrv2.mitre.org [128.29.154.4]) by smtpproxy2.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21444 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv2.mitre.org (mailsrv2.mitre.org [129.83.221.17]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06843 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nausicaa.mitre.org ([128.29.105.85]) by mailsrv2.mitre.org (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GDT3V400.AGR; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:04:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:56:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: Cc: Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <84.1653a8bf.283d7bfc@aol.com> Message-ID: <20010523155538.D87720-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 May 2001 Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > > Tell them to fire 20K packets/second at the linux box and watch it crumble. > Linux has lots of little kludges to make it appear faster on some benchmarks, > but from a networking standpoint it cant handle significant network loads. > Are you sure this is still true? The 2.4.x series kernel was supposed to have significant networking improvements over the previous kernels. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 14: 8:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF2437B423 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 14:08:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.demon.nl) Received: from [212.238.54.101] (helo=freebie.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 152fs1-0004v3-00; Wed, 23 May 2001 21:08:42 +0000 Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.demon.nl (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4N6XL304311; Wed, 23 May 2001 08:33:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:33:21 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Nate Williams , Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: -R for make update ? Message-ID: <20010523083321.A4293@freebie.demon.nl> References: <20010521194828.A789@freebie.demon.nl> <3B0A46CF.9D0CB622@mindspring.com> <20010522125919.D27648@xor.obsecurity.org> <15114.51414.50651.695529@nomad.yogotech.com> <20010522144242.A29988@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20010522144242.A29988@xor.obsecurity.org>; from kris@obsecurity.org on Tue, May 22, 2001 at 02:42:42PM -0700 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 02:42:42PM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 02:15:18PM -0600, Nate Williams wrote: > > > > > Is there any specific reason why one needs to be able to > > > > > write a lock to the CVS repo when running 'make update' > > > > > to get a freshly checked out source? > > > > > > > > Yeah: you aren't running your CVS server in "pserver" > > > > mode, and so are trying to do a lock, either in your > > > > local copy, or over NFS. > > > > > > > > If you run your repository in pserver mode, the CVS server > > > > will be connected to over the network, instead of attacking > > > > your CVS repo directly, and you won't have the problem you > > > > are seeing, since the cvs server will be able to get the > > > > lock, no problem. > > > > > > It will also be freakishly slow, and use massive amounts of temp > > > space. > > > > No slower than cvs using rsh/ssh, although it does tend to create alot > > of inodes in /tmp. (It doesn't create alot of temp space, other than > > what is used to create the directories...) > > Yes, using rsh/ssh is also slow, but we were talking about *local* > access, which has none of those drawbacks. -R makes cvs operations go Yes, this is a local repo indeed. > quite a bit faster, and AFAIK is perfectly safe if you're using a > private repo for which you know there will be no contention. W/ -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands email: wilko@freebsd.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte Powered by FreeBSD/alpha http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 14:27:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.Technion.AC.IL (csa.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4836137B423 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 14:27:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nadav@cs.technion.ac.il) Received: from csd.cs.technion.ac.il (csd.cs.technion.ac.il [132.68.32.8]) by cs.Technion.AC.IL (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA15276 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 00:28:41 +0300 (IDT) Received: from localhost (nadav@localhost) by csd.cs.technion.ac.il (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.0) with SMTP id AAA16218 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 00:28:41 +0300 (IDT) X-Authentication-Warning: csd.cs.technion.ac.il: nadav owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 00:28:41 +0300 (IDT) From: Nadav Eiron X-Sender: nadav@csd To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: panics with 4GB on an IBM xSeries 330 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, We have a 4GB IBM xSeries 330 (1GHz PIII) and I can't get 4.3-RELEASE to boot on it. I did set NKPT to 64 as suggested by DG about a week ago on this list (this is also the reason I take this to -hackers rather than -questions). Still, I get panic: swap_pager_swap_init: swap_zone=NULL when booting (both the modified kernel and GENERIC behave the same). An identical machine with 1GB works like a champ. Anything else other than NKPT I should set? Thanks for any and all comments, Nadav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 15:22:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [207.167.3.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC5537B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 15:22:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4NMM6t95710 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 16:22:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Message-Id: <200105232222.f4NMM6t95710@orthanc.ab.ca> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:22:06 -0600 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A few months back I taught telnet about named sockets. We've found this very useful for testing things like IPC channels in our software (e.g. telnet /var/run/lmtp). I've put the (-STABLE) patches up at: ftp://orthanc.ab.ca/lyndon/freebsd/telnet.AF_UNIX.patch If someone with commit priv's thinks this is worth including, be my guest. --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 15:25:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from superconductor.rush.net (superconductor.rush.net [208.9.155.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4268E37B43F for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 15:25:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@superconductor.rush.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by superconductor.rush.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f4NMPKo25118; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:25:17 -0400 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Lyndon Nerenberg Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] Message-ID: <20010523182516.S17514@superconductor.rush.net> References: <200105232222.f4NMM6t95710@orthanc.ab.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0us In-Reply-To: <200105232222.f4NMM6t95710@orthanc.ab.ca>; from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 04:22:06PM -0600 X-all-your-base: are belong to us. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Lyndon Nerenberg [010523 18:22] wrote: > A few months back I taught telnet about named sockets. We've found this > very useful for testing things like IPC channels in our software > (e.g. telnet /var/run/lmtp). I've put the (-STABLE) patches up at: > > ftp://orthanc.ab.ca/lyndon/freebsd/telnet.AF_UNIX.patch > > If someone with commit priv's thinks this is worth including, be > my guest. This is really cool, can you submit it as a PR? -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 15:26: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F41EA37B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 15:25:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4NMPwn16547; Wed, 23 May 2001 15:25:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:25:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105232225.f4NMPwn16547@earth.backplane.com> To: Lyndon Nerenberg Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] References: <200105232222.f4NMM6t95710@orthanc.ab.ca> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :A few months back I taught telnet about named sockets. We've found this :very useful for testing things like IPC channels in our software :(e.g. telnet /var/run/lmtp). I've put the (-STABLE) patches up at: : : ftp://orthanc.ab.ca/lyndon/freebsd/telnet.AF_UNIX.patch : :If someone with commit priv's thinks this is worth including, be :my guest. : :--lyndon Hey great! I love it. I'll commit it, but could we change the -/ option to -u or -U or something like that? Any preferences? -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 15:30:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E743A37B423 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 15:30:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4NMUdB16650; Wed, 23 May 2001 15:30:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:30:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105232230.f4NMUdB16650@earth.backplane.com> To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Lyndon Nerenberg , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] References: <200105232222.f4NMM6t95710@orthanc.ab.ca> <20010523182516.S17514@superconductor.rush.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> ftp://orthanc.ab.ca/lyndon/freebsd/telnet.AF_UNIX.patch :> :> If someone with commit priv's thinks this is worth including, be :> my guest. : :This is really cool, can you submit it as a PR? : :-- :-Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Don't bother, I'll commit it right now as soon as I get an OK for turning -/ into -u. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 16: 4: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91ECB37B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 16:04:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4NN44h17482; Wed, 23 May 2001 16:04:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:04:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105232304.f4NN44h17482@earth.backplane.com> To: Alfred Perlstein , Lyndon Nerenberg , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] References: <200105232222.f4NMM6t95710@orthanc.ab.ca> <20010523182516.S17514@superconductor.rush.net> <200105232230.f4NMUdB16650@earth.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've committed the patch, changing -/ to -u (note: you don't need the option at all if you specify a path beginning with '/', as per Lyndon's original code), to current (both non-crypto and crypto versions). I will MFC it to stable in three days. Nice one! I'm going to be using this all over the place myself. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 16:32:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ECB8037B43C for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 16:32:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 13993 invoked by uid 1001); 23 May 2001 23:32:38 +0000 (GMT) To: scsi@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Seeking recommendations for backup system From: sthaug@nethelp.no X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:32:38 +0200 Message-ID: <13991.990660758@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm seeking recommendation for a backup system (software) that can be used with a decent sized tape library, probably LTO based, and FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE. I'm sure we could roll our based on freely available tools (eg. Amanda) - but by now I'm used to Tivoli ADSM/TSM, and *like* the convenience ADSM/TSM offers. We need the ability to make backups (via Fast Ethernet) primarily of FreeBSD servers, but also Solaris, Linux and HP-UX. Easy restore is important. (So why not buy TSM again? Primarily the price. We'll do it if we have to, but would prefer something slightly less expensive and also less complex.) Any takers? Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 16:38: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dayspring.firedrake.org (dayspring.firedrake.org [195.82.105.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E4D937B424 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 16:37:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from float@firedrake.org) Received: from float by dayspring.firedrake.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 152iC4-0006vT-00; Thu, 24 May 2001 00:37:32 +0100 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 00:37:31 +0100 To: "Andresen,Jason R." Cc: Terry Lambert , Nadav Eiron , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010524003731.B25053@firedrake.org> References: <3B0B2824.949B119A@mindspring.com> <20010523091618.P87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010523091618.P87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org>; from jandrese@mitre.org on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:20:51AM -0400 From: void Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:20:51AM -0400, Andresen,Jason R. wrote: > > Why is knowing the file names cheating? It is almost certain > that the application will know the names of it's own files > (and won't be grepping the entire directory every time it > needs to find a file). With 60,000 files, that would have the application duplicating 60,000 pieces of information that are stored by the operating system. Operations like open() and unlink() still have to search the directory to get the inode, so there isn't much incentive for an application to do that, I think. -- Ben "An art scene of delight I created this to be ..." -- Sun Ra To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 16:40:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hokkshideh.jetcafe.org (hokkshideh.jetcafe.org [205.147.43.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E552137B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 16:40:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) Received: from hokkshideh.jetcafe.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hokkshideh.jetcafe.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07127; Wed, 23 May 2001 16:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200105232340.QAA07127@hokkshideh.jetcafe.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with version: MH 6.8.4 #1[UCI] To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: Nadav Eiron , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Jason Andresen Subject: Re: technical comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:40:30 -0700 From: Dave Hayes Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: > I don't understand the inability to perform the trivial > design engineering necessary to keep from needing to put > 60,000 files in one directory. Hear hear! ;) (Been waiting for that one) > However, we can take it as a given that people who need > to do this are incapable of doing computer science. You can't make that assumption just yet (although it seems reasonable). We really don't know exactly what the problem they are trying to solve is. Network news sites running old versions of software (as an example, I know someone who still runs CNEWS) have very clear reasons for phenomena resembling 60,000 files in one directory. I would begin to question the assumption that seems to have been unquestioned. Namely, why is the focus -just- on speed? FreeBSD outperforms Linux on reliability and security as well. Not to mention networking. ------ Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org >>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<< We can never have enough of that which we really do not want. --Eric Hoffer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 17: 9:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from newgold.net (usr.srcsys.org [209.42.222.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 255F837B423 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:09:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmallett@newgold.net) Received: (qmail 27358 invoked by uid 1000); 24 May 2001 00:06:26 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 20:06:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph A. Mallett" X-X-Sender: To: Cc: Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Looking at the patch, is it safe to assume that if there's a '/' in a hostname, it MUST be a AF_UNIX socket? If so, wouldn't a strchr(hostp, '/') be better than 'hostp[0] == '/''? This way one can use relative paths as well, not just absolute ones. -- [ Joseph Mallett ] [ http://srcsys.org ] [ xMach Core Team xMach: Proactively Unbloated Microkernel BSD ] [ FreeBSD, NetBSD, & xMach User; (Obj)C(++) Coder ] [ http://xMach.org ] -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GCS d-- s+:++ a--- C+++ UB++++ P+++ L- E---- W++ N+ o-- K- w++ O M+ V PS+ PE- Y+ PGP++ t++ 5-- X+ R tv- b++ DI+ D--- G e* h! r% z+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 17:10:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from po3.glue.umd.edu (po3.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD15137B424 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:10:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@well.com) Received: from y.glue.umd.edu (IDENT:root@y.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.68]) by po3.glue.umd.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4O0AKb22979; Wed, 23 May 2001 20:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from y.glue.umd.edu (IDENT:sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by y.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA27300; Wed, 23 May 2001 20:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by y.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27296; Wed, 23 May 2001 20:10:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: y.glue.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 20:10:20 -0400 (EDT) From: James Howard X-Sender: howardjp@y.glue.umd.edu To: Matt Dillon Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Lyndon Nerenberg , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] In-Reply-To: <200105232304.f4NN44h17482@earth.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 May 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > Nice one! I'm going to be using this all over the place myself. I am missing something here. Is there a practical use for this? :) Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 17:14:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38CBC37B423 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4O0EVg18944; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:14:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:14:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105240014.f4O0EVg18944@earth.backplane.com> To: "Joseph A. Mallett" Cc: Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :Looking at the patch, is it safe to assume that if there's a '/' in a :hostname, it MUST be a AF_UNIX socket? If so, wouldn't a strchr(hostp, :'/') be better than 'hostp[0] == '/''? This way one can use relative paths :as well, not just absolute ones. : :-- :[ Joseph Mallett ] [ http://srcsys.org ] 'maybe'. Generaly speaking, to ensure that we do not break some existing use of telnet it is best to be conservative. You can always do 'telnet -u relative_path' -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 17:16:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3BD237B423 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4O0GI318985; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:16:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:16:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105240016.f4O0GI318985@earth.backplane.com> To: James Howard Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Lyndon Nerenberg , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : :On Wed, 23 May 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: : :> Nice one! I'm going to be using this all over the place myself. : :I am missing something here. Is there a practical use for this? :) : :Jamie Many programs these days use unix-domain sockets as a rendezvous for IPC between processes. Being able to connect to such sockets for monitoring, debugging, development, etc... can be very useful. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 18:29:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.cs.ait.ac.th (mail.cs.ait.ac.th [192.41.170.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 963CA37B423; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:29:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Olivier.Nicole@ait.ac.th) Received: from bazooka.cs.ait.ac.th (on@bazooka.cs.ait.ac.th [192.41.170.2]) by mail.cs.ait.ac.th (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f4O1TpE03444; Thu, 24 May 2001 08:29:52 +0700 (ICT) From: Olivier Nicole Received: (from on@localhost) by bazooka.cs.ait.ac.th (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA16254; Thu, 24 May 2001 08:28:49 +0700 (ICT) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:28:49 +0700 (ICT) Message-Id: <200105240128.IAA16254@bazooka.cs.ait.ac.th> To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <13991.990660758@verdi.nethelp.no> (sthaug@nethelp.no) Subject: Re: Seeking recommendations for backup system Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Steinar, >I'm sure we could roll our based on freely available tools (eg. Amanda) >- but by now I'm used to Tivoli ADSM/TSM, and *like* the convenience >ADSM/TSM offers. We need the ability to make backups (via Fast Ethernet) >primarily of FreeBSD servers, but also Solaris, Linux and HP-UX. Easy >restore is important. Amanda works well, tho I did not had to check on restore yet :) I think the restore works a bit like retore(8) does. You select the files you want from a list then extract, and it will prompt you for the tapes (or get them from your tape charger). One good point, the user list is *active*, developpers do answer questions, even stupid questions that could be solved by RTFM (I did ask such question :) I had it compiled on FreeBSD (various flavors), Solaris (old, including SunOS 4.1). I heard there is issue with older Linux kernel. >used with a decent sized tape library, probably LTO based, and FreeBSD >4.3-STABLE. Dunno what LTO is, my Amanda server is FBSD 4.3 According to a friend, best commercial would be by Veritas, tho their FreeBSD client is old (3.3). Best regards, Olivier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 18:54:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from perninha.conectiva.com.br (perninha.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.156]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F83237B423 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:54:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from riel@conectiva.com.br) Received: from burns.conectiva (burns.conectiva [10.0.0.4]) by perninha.conectiva.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C6F316B63 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 22:54:47 -0300 (EST) Received: (qmail 8208 invoked by uid 0); 24 May 2001 01:53:14 -0000 Received: from duckman.distro.conectiva (HELO duckman.conectiva.com.br) (root@10.0.17.2) by burns.conectiva with SMTP; 24 May 2001 01:53:14 -0000 Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by duckman.conectiva.com.br (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4O1seB28072; Wed, 23 May 2001 22:54:41 -0300 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:54:40 -0300 (BRST) From: Rik van Riel X-X-Sender: To: "Andresen,Jason R." Cc: Kris Kennaway , Nadav Eiron , Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010523125626.V87377-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 May 2001, Andresen,Jason R. wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > That's all well and good, but I thought the aim here was to compare > > Linux and FreeBSD performance on as level playing field as possible? > > You're not measuring FS performance, you're measuring FS performance > > plus cache performance, so your numbers so far tell you nothing > > concrete. *nod* > Yes, they tell us that FreeBSD with softupdates and no write > cache performs better in large cases than Linux with ext2fs and > write caching enabled. > > Also my FreeBSD 4.0 boxes don't have the hw.ata.wc knob, so it's harder > for me to test this. Also, I don't know how ones goes about disabling the > write cache in Linux without recompiling the kernel (which we have some > custom mods in place, so I'm reluctant to do this). 1. I don't think I've ever seen a Linux distro which has write caching enabled by default. Hell, DMA33 isn't even enabled by default ;) 2. hdparm -W0 /dev/ to turn write caching off, -W1 to turn it on 3. I've seen many disks which got _slower_ with write caching turned on. Sure, it helps for sequential IO, but with more random IO the write caching on the disk can interfere really badly with the IO scheduling in the OS ... I've seen as much as a 5x drop in random IO performance with write caching ON compared to OFF. I guess it would be good to follow Kris' suggestions and try to do the tests on a level playing field. The results might just be interesting ;) regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 19:34:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11DB237B423 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 19:34:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 152kxi-000HdD-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 24 May 2001 03:34:54 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f4O2Ys057396 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 24 May 2001 03:34:54 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 03:34:53 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: softc with resource sharing Message-ID: <20010524033453.A57329@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Any devices using the ppbus will end up sharing the hardware port. If i want to access this resource info, should i store it in my local driver's softc structure, or extract it from the parent device (ppbus)? jcm -- "I drank WHAT ?!" - Socrates To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 19:35: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp7ve.mailsrvcs.net (smtp7vepub.gte.net [206.46.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D853A37B424; Wed, 23 May 2001 19:35:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babkin@bellatlantic.net) Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-198-117-202.nnj.dialup.bellatlantic.net [151.198.117.202]) by smtp7ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA24743503; Thu, 24 May 2001 02:44:44 GMT Message-ID: <3B0C7350.448E2169@bellatlantic.net> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:34:56 -0400 From: Sergey Babkin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-19990626-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SJ Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Device driver questions References: <20010523003414.51600.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG SJ wrote: > > 2. Whats the use of device_ops structure and what does > "ops" stand for? "ops" definitely stands for "operations". I can't say off the top of my head what this structure is but most probably a collection of pointers to the functions of a particular driver which implement the device driver API. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 20: 8:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [208.42.49.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A12837B422 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 20:08:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from shade.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [208.42.49.153]) by gw.nectar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9609518C9F; Wed, 23 May 2001 22:08:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nectar@localhost) by shade.nectar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4O38jt26529; Wed, 23 May 2001 22:08:45 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from nectar) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:08:44 -0500 From: "Jacques A. Vidrine" To: James Howard Cc: Matt Dillon , Alfred Perlstein , Lyndon Nerenberg , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] Message-ID: <20010523220844.A26487@shade.nectar.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" , James Howard , Matt Dillon , Alfred Perlstein , Lyndon Nerenberg , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200105232304.f4NN44h17482@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from howardjp@well.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 08:10:20PM -0400 X-Url: http://www.nectar.com/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 08:10:20PM -0400, James Howard wrote: > I am missing something here. Is there a practical use for this? :) You are not the only one. I can appreciate the `neat' factor, but I cringed at the commit. It seems like functionality that would be better put in a separate utility (or port even). It's not like you'd ever want to run the NVT protocol over an AF_UNIX socket. -- Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / jvidrine@verio.net / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 21: 1:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D08437B423 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 21:01:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@widomaker.com) Received: from [209.96.185.98] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 152mJR-000DvH-00; Thu, 24 May 2001 00:01:26 -0400 Received: (from shannon@localhost) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) id f4O3nBH19686; Wed, 23 May 2001 23:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:49:10 -0400 From: Shannon To: Rik van Riel Cc: "Andresen,Jason R." , Kris Kennaway , Nadav Eiron , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010523234910.B19185@widomaker.com> References: <20010523125626.V87377-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from riel@conectiva.com.br on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 10:54:40PM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 10:54:40PM -0300, Rik van Riel wrote: > 1. I don't think I've ever seen a Linux distro which has write > caching enabled by default. Hell, DMA33 isn't even enabled > by default ;) You are talking about controlling the IDE drive cache. The issue here is write cache in the filesystem code. -- shannon@widomaker.com _________________________________________________ ______________________/ armchairrocketscientistgraffitiexenstentialist "And in billows of might swell the Saxons before her,-- Unite, oh unite! Or the billows burst o'er her!" -- Downfall of the Gael To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 22:36: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from spnet.com (m42.spnet.com [207.181.251.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51D6837B424 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 22:36:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from elh@spnet.com) Received: from spnet.com (m3.spnet [192.168.76.3]) by spnet.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA25622; Wed, 23 May 2001 22:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B0C9DBB.35724C09@spnet.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:35:55 -0700 From: Ed Hudson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org, elh@spnet.com Subject: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG howdy. maybe this has been discussed in 'hackers' or elsewhere, before - i can't find a reference via the search interface. i'm a long time freebsd user, and i've been struck by how much my systems (3 of them) have slowed down in its disk performance with 4.3-RELEASE, relative to 4.2-RELEASE and 4.1.1-RELEASE. here is my data: 4.1.1-RELEASE, ASUS A7A mbd, wd600-b (60gig udma100 drive). time to newfs an 8192mby partition ('a' partition in the first slice): 8seconds. 4.3-RELEASE, same mbd/drive: time to newfs the same 8192 mby partition: 36seconds this is 4.5x slowdown! this 'newfs' is done by an express install in both cases. even lowly linux-7.1 thinks this disk and system are fast, and they zip along in comparison to 4.3-RELEASE. i believe that a 4.2-RELEASE system would have the same performance as the 4.1.1-RELEASE, based on my system at work. thoughts ? -elh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 22:48:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.14.173.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53F8637B634 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 22:48:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 55540 invoked by uid 1000); 24 May 2001 05:48:02 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 24 May 2001 05:48:02 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 00:48:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Ed Hudson Cc: , Soren Schmidt Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <3B0C9DBB.35724C09@spnet.com> Message-ID: <20010524004057.V55532-100000@achilles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 May 2001, Ed Hudson wrote: > > howdy. > > maybe this has been discussed in 'hackers' or elsewhere, > before - i can't find a reference via the search interface. > > i'm a long time freebsd user, and i've been struck by how much my > systems (3 of them) have slowed down in its disk performance with > 4.3-RELEASE, relative to 4.2-RELEASE and 4.1.1-RELEASE. Write caching is now off by default. man ata to see how to turn it back on. Seeing messages like this is becoming quite common on the lists since the change was made. On the other hand, I don't recall seeing any message about disks being trashed when caching was enabled by default. Given that the option is tunable, perhaps it would be best to leave it enabled by default. Those concerned about power failures would still be able to disable it if they wish. With the extreme levels of annoying shown by those since the change, I have the bad feeling that FreeBSD will get a reputation as being slower than other OSes unless the default is returned to its previous state. Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 23:19:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from m44.spnet.com (m44.spnet.com [207.181.251.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5737D37B43E for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 23:19:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from elh_fbsd@spnet.com) Received: from spnet.com (localhost.spnet [127.0.0.1]) by m44.spnet.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4O6JJ900472; Wed, 23 May 2001 23:19:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from elh_fbsd@spnet.com) Message-Id: <200105240619.f4O6JJ900472@m44.spnet.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Mike Silbersack Cc: Ed Hudson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE In-Reply-To: Message from Mike Silbersack of "Thu, 24 May 2001 00:48:02 CDT." <20010524004057.V55532-100000@achilles.silby.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:19:19 -0700 From: Ed Hudson Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Silbersack writes: > Write caching is now off by default. man ata to see how to turn it back > on. Mr. Silbersack, thank you very much. you've restored my systems to their pre-4.3 stunningly fast behavior. to the hackers group, i apologize for polluting the air waves with my original plea for help. > > > Seeing messages like this is becoming quite common on the lists since the > change was made. On the other hand, I don't recall seeing any message for my money, hw.ata.wc=1 soft updates OFF is a better performing choice than hw.ata.wc=0 and soft updates ON. (soft updates are great, but i really dislike the performance stalls that it (or async mode) engenders with big copies/etc for other processes). if the freebsd group still chooses to keep hw.ata.wc=0 as the default, i would urge perhaps a different mode for base system installs. the reason i used '8192m' partition in my original mail was because the wait for a 60gig newfs was pretty painful. in my original message i made a reference to linux. i'm a die-hard freebsd fan, but for work reasons etc i take a look at linux from time to time. in the same system that i mentioned originally, i've tried the experiment of powering off a machine (with no halt) after the first reboot after a virgin suse-7.1 install. linux couldn't put itself back together without manual intervention - the fsck seemed to just freak. even with the historic hw.ata.wc=1 effective mode of freebsd-*, i've never seen such bad behavior as i had with the linux-7.1 system. THANKS again to all you folks for the outstanding performance and reliability that freebsd attains. -elh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 23 23:50:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-11.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7FFD37B422; Wed, 23 May 2001 23:50:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.demon.nl) Received: from [212.238.54.101] (helo=freebie.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 152oxQ-0005Up-00; Thu, 24 May 2001 06:50:52 +0000 Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.demon.nl (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4O6uHX03499; Thu, 24 May 2001 08:56:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:56:17 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Olivier Nicole Cc: sthaug@nethelp.no, scsi@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seeking recommendations for backup system Message-ID: <20010524085617.B3090@freebie.demon.nl> References: <13991.990660758@verdi.nethelp.no> <200105240128.IAA16254@bazooka.cs.ait.ac.th> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200105240128.IAA16254@bazooka.cs.ait.ac.th>; from Olivier.Nicole@ait.ac.th on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 08:28:49AM +0700 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 08:28:49AM +0700, Olivier Nicole wrote: > >used with a decent sized tape library, probably LTO based, and FreeBSD > >4.3-STABLE. > > Dunno what LTO is, my Amanda server is FBSD 4.3 Linear Tape Open. Some industry-standard-to-be that wants to replace DLT. -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands email: wilko@freebsd.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte Powered by FreeBSD/alpha http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 1: 5:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beppo.feral.com (unknown [192.67.166.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C47F37B422; Thu, 24 May 2001 01:05:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from zeppo.feral.com (IDENT:mjacob@zeppo.feral.com [192.67.166.71]) by beppo.feral.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4NNd2g01185; Wed, 23 May 2001 16:39:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:39:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: scsi@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seeking recommendations for backup system In-Reply-To: <13991.990660758@verdi.nethelp.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You should note that there *is* a NetWorker freebsd client for both i386 and alpha. But it's getting moldy. No, no server on FreeBSD yet. > I'm seeking recommendation for a backup system (software) that can be > used with a decent sized tape library, probably LTO based, and FreeBSD > 4.3-STABLE. > > I'm sure we could roll our based on freely available tools (eg. Amanda) > - but by now I'm used to Tivoli ADSM/TSM, and *like* the convenience > ADSM/TSM offers. We need the ability to make backups (via Fast Ethernet) > primarily of FreeBSD servers, but also Solaris, Linux and HP-UX. Easy > restore is important. > > (So why not buy TSM again? Primarily the price. We'll do it if we have to, > but would prefer something slightly less expensive and also less complex.) > > Any takers? > > Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-scsi" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 2:44:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (kawoserv.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.180.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3450337B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 02:44:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@big.endian.de) Received: from zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.181.28]) by kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA16165; Thu, 24 May 2001 11:44:13 +0200 Received: by zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 15BC114CD4; Thu, 24 May 2001 11:44:13 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:44:12 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Ed Hudson Cc: Mike Silbersack , Ed Hudson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE Message-ID: <20010524114412.D981@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> References: <200105240619.f4O6JJ900472@m44.spnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105240619.f4O6JJ900472@m44.spnet.com>; from elh_fbsd@spnet.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 11:19:19PM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Ed Hudson (elh_fbsd@spnet.com): > for my money, hw.ata.wc=1 soft updates OFF is a better performing > choice than hw.ata.wc=0 and soft updates ON. > (soft updates are great, but i really dislike the performance > stalls that it (or async mode) engenders with big copies/etc > for other processes). Well, that must be decided on situtation by situation. Most people read a much bigger amount of data than they actually write, and the small amount of data they write is then (almost!) guaranteed to be consistent. For webservers, were only few changes to the static pages are made, this mode is the correct behaviour, for newsservers it's probably not. The way it's done at the moment is ok, IMO. Alex -- cat: /home/alex/.sig: No such file or directory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 2:51:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (kawoserv.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.180.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C34837B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 02:51:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@big.endian.de) Received: from zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.181.28]) by kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA15962; Thu, 24 May 2001 11:38:16 +0200 Received: by zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1C30414CD4; Thu, 24 May 2001 11:38:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:38:15 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: j mckitrick Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softc with resource sharing Message-ID: <20010524113815.C981@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> References: <20010524033453.A57329@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010524033453.A57329@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 03:34:53AM +0100 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake j mckitrick (jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org): > Any devices using the ppbus will end up sharing the hardware port. If i want > to access this resource info, should i store it in my local driver's softc > structure, or extract it from the parent device (ppbus)? What about bus_alloc_resource()? Or is ppbus special? (Not that I know of). Alex -- cat: /home/alex/.sig: No such file or directory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 2:55:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from liam.hesketh.net (liam.hesketh.net [199.72.146.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCA9B37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 02:55:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brent@mutt.rcfile.org) Received: from mutt.rcfile.org (rdu162-244-245.nc.rr.com [24.162.244.245]) by liam.hesketh.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4O9s0l29408 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 05:54:00 -0400 Received: (from brent@localhost) by mutt.rcfile.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4O9tcK08608 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 24 May 2001 05:55:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brent) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 05:55:38 -0400 From: Brent Verner To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: gcc (cpp) include search path problem Message-ID: <20010524055537.A8563@rcfile.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm not sure if this has been the default for gcc/cpp on FBSD for a while but I noticed it since some ports failed to build due to includes (present in /usr/local/include) not being found. Has this changed, or is that port (wget) just broken. IMO, the search path for cpp should include /usr/local/include, especially since we install ports there. Brent colo:~/ brent$ cpp -v Using builtin specs. gcc version 2.95.3 [FreeBSD] 20010315 (release) /usr/libexec/cpp -lang-c -v -Di386 -D__FreeBSD__=4 -D__FreeBSD_cc_version=430000 -Dunix -D__i386__ -D__FreeBSD__=4 -D__FreeBSD_cc_version=430000 -D__unix__ -D__i386 -D__unix -Acpu(i386) -Amachine(i386) -Asystem(unix) -Asystem(FreeBSD) -Acpu(i386) -Amachine(i386) -Di386 -D__i386 -D__i386__ -D__ELF__ - GNU CPP version 2.95.3 [FreeBSD] 20010315 (release) (i386 FreeBSD/ELF) #include "..." search starts here: #include <...> search starts here: /usr/include /usr/include End of search list. The following default directories have been omitted from the search path: /usr/include/g++ End of omitted list. ^C colo:~/ brent$ uname -a FreeBSD colo.rcfile.org 4.3-STABLE FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE #15: Wed May 23 17:39:35 EDT 2001 root@colo.rcfile.org:/usr/local/usr.obj/usr/src/sys/COLO i386 -- - - - - - -=( d a m o n b r e n t v e r n e r )=- - - - - - - c e r t i f i e d n o s o u r c o p h o b i c To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 4:23:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7695E37B42C for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 04:23:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 152tDN-000Lz2-00; Thu, 24 May 2001 12:23:37 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f4OBNad87867; Thu, 24 May 2001 12:23:36 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:23:35 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Alexander Langer Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: softc with resource sharing Message-ID: <20010524122335.A87551@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010524033453.A57329@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010524113815.C981@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20010524113815.C981@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d>; from alex@big.endian.de on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:38:15AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:38:15AM +0200, Alexander Langer wrote: | Thus spake j mckitrick (jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org): | | > Any devices using the ppbus will end up sharing the hardware port. If i want | > to access this resource info, should i store it in my local driver's softc | > structure, or extract it from the parent device (ppbus)? | | What about bus_alloc_resource()? | Or is ppbus special? (Not that I know of). Well, all of the resources have already been allocated when the ppc device has been attached. The hardware port and interrupt have already been reserved and stored in the softc data structure for ppc. All devices attached to ppc, like ppbus, are currently calling macros that call hardcoded inb/outb calls in sys/isa/ppcreg.h. I am trying to figure out if i should rewrite the macros to use the correct bus_space calls, or store the info lower down, with each device's softc where it is more accessible. At this point, all access to the parallel port IO registers is passed to the ppc device, and i am wondering if this should change and be handled be each device instead. jcm -- "I drank WHAT ?!" - Socrates To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 4:35:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from malmo.trab.se (malmo.trab.se [131.115.48.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3768F37B424 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 04:35:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Urban.E.Olsson@telia.se) Received: from trab-hermes.haninge.trab.se (trab-hermes.haninge.trab.se [131.115.158.15]) by malmo.trab.se (8.10.1/TRAB-primary-2) with ESMTP id f4OBZaI13846 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 13:35:36 +0200 (MEST) Received: by trab-hermes.haninge.trab.se with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 24 May 2001 13:35:35 +0200 Message-ID: <778DFE9B4E3BD111A74E08002BA3DC0D03DA5225@trab-hermes.haninge.trab.se> From: Urban Olsson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: modified FreeBSD gateway Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:35:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I have a question regarding modification of a FreeBSD gateway (the = Internet gateway for a LAN). What I want to do is to have the gateway pick up = the packets, modify the IP-header and resend the packet onto the network. = This is a little bit like a NAT but I want to be able to do it differently = and on my own terms. I guess that this means that I would be forced to rewrite = the gateway source-code so it behaves as I want it to. So the problem now = is that I don=B4t really know where to start. If anyone out there has some suggestions on how to start, which files to modify and so on I would be grateful. As far as I know there might already be some code out there = that does the very thing I want. In that case, feel free to share the = knowledge. regards Urban To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 5:17:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cache0-boot.infase.es (cache0-boot.infase.es [212.87.192.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C82E537B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 05:17:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from arnaiz@encomix.es) Received: from LAPTOP (unknown [213.220.9.11]) by cache0-boot.infase.es (Postfix) with SMTP id 490F855DE91 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:12:55 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_Arn=E1iz?= To: Subject: help about a project Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:19:18 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I'm working on a project in which I need to develop an installer able to install Internet/intranet servers. I want to do it compiling FreeBSD binaries and, the program, only have to copy these on the new system. The problem is with some packages like "vpopmail" which needs to use a UID from the user you create for it (vpopmail and vchkpw in this case), I mean the binary have the UID inside so you should have the vpopmail user with the same UID in the new system. I do not want to force a UID on a new system, so I ask for any help on how to solve it. Thanks in advance. -- Jesús Arnáiz 0z0ne Inc I+D/IT Manager http://www.0z0ne.com mailto:jesus@0z0ne.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 6:32:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A66237B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 06:32:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25280 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 09:31:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv2.mitre.org (mailsrv2.mitre.org [129.83.221.17]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26561 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 09:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nausicaa.mitre.org ([128.29.105.85]) by mailsrv2.mitre.org (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GDUDL400.UYO; Thu, 24 May 2001 09:31:52 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:24:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andresen,Jason R." To: void Cc: Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010524003731.B25053@firedrake.org> Message-ID: <20010524082013.G88992-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 May 2001, void wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:20:51AM -0400, Andresen,Jason R. wrote: > > > > Why is knowing the file names cheating? It is almost certain > > that the application will know the names of it's own files > > (and won't be grepping the entire directory every time it > > needs to find a file). > > With 60,000 files, that would have the application duplicating > 60,000 pieces of information that are stored by the operating system. > Operations like open() and unlink() still have to search the directory > to get the inode, so there isn't much incentive for an application to > do that, I think. This still doesn't make sense to me. It's not like the program is going to want to do a "find" on the directory every time it has some data it wants to put somewhere. I think for the majority of the cases (I'm sure there are exceptions) an application program that wants to interact with files will know what filename it wants ahead of time. This doesn't necessarily mean storing 60,000 filenames either, it could be something like: I have files fooX where X is a number from 00000 to 60000 in that directory. I need to find a piece of information, so I run that information through a hash of some sort and determine that the file I want is number 23429, so I open that file. I don't expect programs to try to offload this sort of information on the filesystem. Do you have an example of a program that interacts with the filesystem without knowing the names of the files it wants? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 6:33:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.de (mailout06.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21F3D37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 06:33:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bfischer@Techfak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE) Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 152vEf-0005q5-06; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:33:05 +0200 Received: from frolic.no-support.loc (520094253176-0001@[217.80.108.138]) by fmrl05.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 152vFL-1r9dpZC; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:33:47 +0200 Received: (from bjoern@localhost) by frolic.no-support.loc (8.11.3/8.9.3) id f4ODUmf02816; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:30:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bjoern) From: Bjoern Fischer Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:30:48 +0200 To: Urban Olsson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modified FreeBSD gateway Message-ID: <20010524153047.A2589@frolic.no-support.loc> References: <778DFE9B4E3BD111A74E08002BA3DC0D03DA5225@trab-hermes.haninge.trab.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <778DFE9B4E3BD111A74E08002BA3DC0D03DA5225@trab-hermes.haninge.trab.se>; from Urban.E.Olsson@telia.se on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 01:35:34PM +0200 X-Sender: 520094253176-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello Urban, > I have a question regarding modification of a FreeBSD gateway (the Intern= et > gateway for a LAN). What I want to do is to have the gateway pick up the > packets, modify the IP-header and resend the packet onto the network. This > is a little bit like a NAT but I want to be able to do it differently and= on > my own terms. I guess that this means that I would be forced to rewrite t= he > gateway source-code so it behaves as I want it to. You can do this entirely in userspace. All you need is a divert socket. See the manpage divert(4). Bj=F6rn Fischer --=20 -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GCS d--(+) s++: a- C+++(-) UB++++OSI++++$ P+++(-) L---(++) !E W- N+ o>+ K- !w !O !M !V PS++ PE- PGP++ t+++ !5 X++ tv- b+++ D++ G e+ h-- y+=20 ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 6:57:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Thanatos.Shenton.Org (a3.ebbed1.client.atlantech.net [209.190.235.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F1CA37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 06:57:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@Shenton.Org) Received: (qmail 70086 invoked by uid 1000); 24 May 2001 13:57:31 -0000 To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: scsi@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seeking recommendations for backup system References: <13991.990660758@verdi.nethelp.no> From: Chris Shenton Date: 24 May 2001 09:57:31 -0400 In-Reply-To: sthaug@nethelp.no's message of "Thu, 24 May 2001 01:32:38 +0200" Message-ID: <87vgmqc0j8.fsf@thanatos.shenton.org> Lines: 27 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sthaug@nethelp.no writes: > I'm seeking recommendation for a backup system (software) that can be > used with a decent sized tape library, probably LTO based, and FreeBSD > 4.3-STABLE. > > I'm sure we could roll our based on freely available tools (eg. Amanda) > - but by now I'm used to Tivoli ADSM/TSM, and *like* the convenience > ADSM/TSM offers. We need the ability to make backups (via Fast Ethernet) > primarily of FreeBSD servers, but also Solaris, Linux and HP-UX. Easy > restore is important. Been using Amanda to backup a few FreeBSD 3.x, 4.x and Slowaris boxes, no problems; my drive is a 4xDDS2 python. There's an ftp-ish client for specifying files/dirs to restore which works OK, though it always takes me a little while to get used to the options I have to specify. Had to do a major restore when I lost an entire disk -- was *very* happy Amanda had been doing its thing, automatically, every night. :-) I like the fact that Amanda stores in a slightly enhanced "dump" format, just prepending a label to each tape, and a directory entry to each file. If you really lose everything, you can do some "mt fsf" to get to the right tape file, then a "dd" to skip the header, then finally a "restore" to copy the data to disk. I believe Legato uses a proprietary tape format so if you're hosed you have to restore Legato before you can restore the tape. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 7:55:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B600F37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 07:55:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramidi@otenet.gr) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-a133.otenet.gr [212.205.215.133]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f4OEt8F25178; Thu, 24 May 2001 17:55:08 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4OEakK13828; Thu, 24 May 2001 17:36:46 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramidi@otenet.gr) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:36:46 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: SJ Cc: Alexander Langer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device driver questions Message-ID: <20010524173645.A13721@hades.hell.gr> References: <20010523085857.B1103@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> <20010523173800.84311.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010523173800.84311.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com>; from sandejain@rocketmail.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 10:38:00AM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ Removed -questions from Cc: - do we have to cross post? ] On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 10:38:00AM -0700, SJ wrote: > --- Alexander Langer wrote: > > > > > 3. File naming question: > > > whats the reasoning behind having "bus.h" and > > > "bus_private.h"....whats the significance of > > > "private" here. > > > > drivers include bus.h, kernel does also include > > bus_private.h > > But still the name "private" confuses me...according > to me it should have been "bus_public.c". Any comments? If its the name that bothers you, then think of it as: . bus.h is a file used by everyone . bus_private.h is a file that is `private' to the kernel --giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 8:26:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from perninha.conectiva.com.br (perninha.conectiva.com.br [200.250.58.156]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BB6137B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 08:26:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from riel@conectiva.com.br) Received: from burns.conectiva (burns.conectiva [10.0.0.4]) by perninha.conectiva.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 23C9F16B50 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 12:26:07 -0300 (EST) Received: (qmail 24956 invoked by uid 0); 24 May 2001 15:24:34 -0000 Received: from duckman.distro.conectiva (HELO duckman.conectiva.com.br) (root@10.0.17.2) by burns.conectiva with SMTP; 24 May 2001 15:24:34 -0000 Received: from localhost (riel@localhost) by duckman.conectiva.com.br (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4OFPxx15992; Thu, 24 May 2001 12:26:01 -0300 X-Authentication-Warning: duckman.distro.conectiva: riel owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:25:59 -0300 (BRST) From: Rik van Riel X-X-Sender: To: Shannon Cc: "Andresen,Jason R." , Kris Kennaway , Nadav Eiron , Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010523234910.B19185@widomaker.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 May 2001, Shannon wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 10:54:40PM -0300, Rik van Riel wrote: > > > 1. I don't think I've ever seen a Linux distro which has write > > caching enabled by default. Hell, DMA33 isn't even enabled > > by default ;) > > You are talking about controlling the IDE drive cache. > > The issue here is write cache in the filesystem code. 1) IIRC they were talking about hw.ata.wc 2) soft-updates _is_ a form of write cache in the filesystem code, in fact, that's one of the points of soft-updates in the first place ;) regards, Rik -- Linux MM bugzilla: http://linux-mm.org/bugzilla.shtml Virtual memory is like a game you can't win; However, without VM there's truly nothing to lose... http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 9: 2:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A757B37B424 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 09:02:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from onyx (onyx.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.140.171]) by bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4OG2Hu27693 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 12:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:02:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang X-Sender: zzhang@onyx To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: shared versus exclusive lock Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG According to my reading of kern_lock.c, it does support shared lock. However, we are still using LK_EXCLUSIVE mode more often than necessary. If I want to look up a directory or to read a buffer, I should be able to use the LK_SHARED lock. Right now, only few places I have found using LK_SHARED, like in vn_read(). Is there any reason behind this? If I want to change this in my code, is there anything I should pay special attention to? Thanks. -Zhihui To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 9:14:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E80437B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 09:14:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (billy-club.village.org [10.0.0.3]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4OGEL665748; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:14:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by billy-club.village.org (8.11.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id f4OGECl38227; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200105241614.f4OGECl38227@billy-club.village.org> To: Jason Andresen Subject: Re: technical comparison Cc: "Albert D. Cahalan" , ccf@master.ndi.net, gordont@bluemtn.net, jkh@osd.bsdi.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 May 2001 09:31:34 EDT." <3B0A6A36.5E8EF98C@mitre.org> References: <3B0A6A36.5E8EF98C@mitre.org> <200105220411.f4M4BDX101825@saturn.cs.uml.edu> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:14:12 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <3B0A6A36.5E8EF98C@mitre.org> Jason Andresen writes: : If only FreeBSD could boot from those funky M-Systems flash disks. We boot FreeBSD off of M-Systems flash disks all the time. Don't know what the problem is with your boxes. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 9:19:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web13408.mail.yahoo.com (web13408.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4015737B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 09:19:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sandejain@rocketmail.com) Message-ID: <20010524161944.85795.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.17.136.129] by web13408.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 24 May 2001 09:19:44 PDT Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:19:44 -0700 (PDT) From: SJ Subject: two general questions To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have a couple of general questions regarding the kernel: I'll appreciate any help whatsoever in this regard. 1) In the ioconf.c file I see an entry for a resource as: { "at", RES_STRING, { (long)"isa" }}, ^^^^^^^ Shouldnt (long) be (char*) ? 2) what purpose does SYSINIT serve? thanks for your time, SJ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 10:22: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C7637B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from ted.isi.edu (ted.isi.edu [128.9.160.104]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4OHIRG06552; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from faber@localhost) by ted.isi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4OHIE300709; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:18:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:18:13 -0700 From: Ted Faber To: Mike Silbersack Cc: Ed Hudson , hackers@freebsd.org, Soren Schmidt Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE Message-ID: <20010524101813.A563@ted.isi.edu> References: <3B0C9DBB.35724C09@spnet.com> <20010524004057.V55532-100000@achilles.silby.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=php-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010524004057.V55532-100000@achilles.silby.com>; from silby@silby.com on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 12:48:02AM -0500 X-url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 12:48:02AM -0500, Mike Silbersack wrote: > Write caching is now off by default. man ata to see how to turn it back > on. Ummmm. I setting hw.ata.wc=1 and got: ted:~$ sudo sysctl -w hw.ata.wc=1 sysctl: oid 'hw.ata.wc' is read only I'm assuming that this is because my controller doesn't support write caching. Can anyone confirm this? If that's why the oid is read-only, a one-liner in the ata man page (that I'm happy to write) would be a good thing. Here's what I hope is the relevant stuff from dmesg: ted:~$ dmesg | egrep '^(ata|a[cd])' atapci0: port 0x10a0-0x10af at device 7.1 on pci0 ata0: at 0x1f0 irq 14 on atapci0 ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0 ad0: 19609MB [39842/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA33 acd0: CDROM at ata1-master using PIO4 acd1: CD-RW at ata1-slave using PIO4 --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7DUJVaUz3f+Zf+XsRArPaAJ4jaSm23fBbamvHmOHbEpMyWbAzcgCgrXvY H9b7Nvd+hn/C4UcAPRPhFoM= =pxRR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 10:21:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cicero0.cybercity.dk (cicero0.cybercity.dk [212.242.40.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E60437B422; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:21:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbe30510@post.netlink.se) Received: from usr01.netlink.se (usr01.netlink.se [212.242.42.10]) by cicero0.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1705102ABB; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:21:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tjafs (port388.cvx3-mal.ppp.netlink.se [62.66.14.135]) by usr01.netlink.se (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f4OHLrV14172; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:21:53 +0200 (CEST) Reply-To: From: "Mattias Berge" To: , , , Subject: Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:23:39 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have sme major problems with getting the SMP support to work. My machine is a Compaq Proliant 380D with dual 733 mhz pIII processors. I run FreeBSD 4.3-REL. I have added the two SMP lines in my kernel conf and delöeted the I*86_CPU that I do not need. Then I compiled the kernel and rebooted, and it hangs in boot when it says: Changing APIC ID for IO APIC #0 from 0 to 8 on chip Programming 35 pins in IOAPIC #0 IOAPIC #0 intpin -> irq 0 Anyone expiriance (and solved) a similar problem? Please reply to this mail, since Im not a member of any list. Thanks in advance, Mattias Berge Atos Medical AB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 10:26:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E831537B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4OHQnM93014 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 721AE380C; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: SJ Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: two general questions In-Reply-To: <20010524161944.85795.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:26:49 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010524172649.721AE380C@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG SJ wrote: > Hi, > I have a couple of general questions regarding the > kernel: I'll appreciate any help whatsoever in this > regard. > > 1) In the ioconf.c file I see an entry for a resource > > as: > { "at", RES_STRING, { (long)"isa" }}, > ^^^^^^^ > Shouldnt (long) be (char*) ? No. The type of the third argument is "long", which is known to be able to represent a pointer on the platforms that 4.x and earlier support. In 5.x we just have ascii strings and no ioconf.c at all. > 2) what purpose does SYSINIT serve? They provide an ordered hook in the boot sequence. You provide a function, a data pointer, and where/when it is to be called. The kernel will call those functions at the appropriate time for you so that you can do initialization etc. It is done with linker magic. (see gensetdefs and setdef*) > thanks for your time, > SJ Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 10:30:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from maild.telia.com (maild.telia.com [194.22.190.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E9737B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:30:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ertr1013@student.uu.se) Received: from d1o913.telia.com (d1o913.telia.com [195.252.44.241]) by maild.telia.com (8.11.2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4OHUaN07436 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:30:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ertr1013.student.uu.se (h185n2fls20o913.telia.com [212.181.163.185]) by d1o913.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA03356 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:30:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 11533 invoked by uid 1001); 24 May 2001 17:30:28 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:30:28 +0200 From: Erik Trulsson To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE Message-ID: <20010524193028.A11478@student.uu.se> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <3B0C9DBB.35724C09@spnet.com> <20010524004057.V55532-100000@achilles.silby.com> <20010524101813.A563@ted.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010524101813.A563@ted.isi.edu>; from faber@ISI.EDU on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:18:13AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:18:13AM -0700, Ted Faber wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 12:48:02AM -0500, Mike Silbersack wrote: > > Write caching is now off by default. man ata to see how to turn it back > > on. > > Ummmm. I setting hw.ata.wc=1 and got: > > ted:~$ sudo sysctl -w hw.ata.wc=1 > sysctl: oid 'hw.ata.wc' is read only > > I'm assuming that this is because my controller doesn't support write > caching. Can anyone confirm this? If that's why the oid is > read-only, a one-liner in the ata man page (that I'm happy to write) > would be a good thing. Nope, that error is beacuse it is only settable from within the loader(8). You cannot set it with sysctl(8) The relevant one-liner from the ata(4) man page is: The following tunables are setable from the loader: ... hw.ata.wc ... -- Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 10:37:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBB9B37B443 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:37:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from ted.isi.edu (ted.isi.edu [128.9.160.104]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4OHbRG09212; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from faber@localhost) by ted.isi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4OHbQO00789; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:37:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:37:26 -0700 From: Ted Faber To: Erik Trulsson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE Message-ID: <20010524103726.A562@ted.isi.edu> References: <3B0C9DBB.35724C09@spnet.com> <20010524004057.V55532-100000@achilles.silby.com> <20010524101813.A563@ted.isi.edu> <20010524193028.A11478@student.uu.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=php-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010524193028.A11478@student.uu.se>; from ertr1013@student.uu.se on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 07:30:28PM +0200 X-url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 07:30:28PM +0200, Erik Trulsson wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:18:13AM -0700, Ted Faber wrote: > > read-only, a one-liner in the ata man page (that I'm happy to write) > > would be a good thing. > > The relevant one-liner from the ata(4) man page is: > The following tunables are setable from the loader: > ... > hw.ata.wc D'oh! Got it. I got private mail telling me to set it in the loader and was all set to add a line to the page to mention that, when I see it's already there. Nothing like telling a world-wide mailing list that you can't read. :-( At any rate I understand how to control write caching, and I've found my reading glasses. Thanks for the patience. --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7DUbWaUz3f+Zf+XsRAoPDAKC6CRGZpqeu0cOqY49k0YtgxDRWfgCdFd09 yOmYAZCeTGTFQD900Gsc0Ns= =GOA5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 10:47:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E271137B42C for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4OHlDM93081 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9C03380C; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: SJ Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device driver questions In-Reply-To: <20010523003414.51600.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:47:13 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010524174713.A9C03380C@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG SJ wrote: > Hi all, > I am new to writing device drivers...so please excuse > my ignorance. > > I have a couple of questions regarding that: > > 1. "ioconf.c" contains struct config_resource and > config_device definitions for declarations in > "config" file. But I noticed that for some devices > e.g. device atadisk > device atapicd > ... > the corresponding lines in ioconf.c are missing?? Ignore ioconf.c. It is the old way of providing static driver info for things like the isa bus.. eg: what IO port to look for a device on. New isa drivers have all this pre-processed for them. There are only some special cases (eg: fd) that still use the resource_*() functions directly. > 2. Whats the use of device_ops structure and what does > "ops" stand for? Operations.. It is a list of functions or implementation methods that a device supports. > 3. File naming question: > whats the reasoning behind having "bus.h" and > "bus_private.h"....whats the significance of > "private" here. bus_private.h means you should ignore it. It exists only so that several different kernel files can share private information. Everything in there is 100% subject to change without notice. > 4. concept behind having devclasses...I know that > devclasses for a particular bus holds devices and > device drivers for that bus. But then whats the > need for defining a devclass for each driver we > write ? Devclasses keep track of unit numbers for drivers. It also allows you to get hold of another driver's device units by using it as a handle for devclass_get_device(). > 5. Any poniters to literature which explains the > design philosophy and code specific help for device > drivers in freebsd - I am referring to files > kern/subr_bus.c, bus.h, bus_private.h, isa/* etc. Paul Richards did an excellent primer on this stuff at BSDCon 2000. I wonder if the slides are around anywhere? Other than that, look at some drivers. Most of the drivers in sys/dev/* and sys/isa/* are newbus aware. Some are better examples than others though :-/. In a nutshell though, the new bus implementation is a dynamic, stackable, pseudo OO-like driver/bus framework. It is designed with the assumption that most present and future busses will be self identifying (eg: have device id's for devices). id's are discovered and offered to drivers in an auction-like fashion. Each node on the device/bus/whatever tree implements a set of methods (device_ops) that are expected by its parent and/or children. This means that a bus node expects its potential child drivers to implement the required set of device (probe/attach/etc) methods. The child drivers expect their parent to implement the expected set of methods to support that kind of driver (eg: bus_alloc_resource etc) This means that a given bus/driver pair are completely oblivious to how it is attached to the rest of the system.. eg: an isa bus can be on a pci->isa bridge or an old-style ISA-only system where the isa bus is at the root of the tree. The isa devices dont know (or care) that they may be sitting behind a PCI device on an Alpha that has a MMU-like device (scatter-gather map) that enables ISA devices there to access all 64bits of address space, not just the usual 24 bits of space. > thanks for your help, > SJ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 11:13:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com (sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com [209.247.77.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 789C437B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 11:13:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@bluemtn.net) Received: from localhost (gordont@localhost) by sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com (8.11.3/8.11.2/BMA1.1) with ESMTP id f4OIAAq40514; Thu, 24 May 2001 11:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:10:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow X-X-Sender: To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" Cc: James Howard , Matt Dillon , Alfred Perlstein , Lyndon Nerenberg , Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] In-Reply-To: <20010523220844.A26487@shade.nectar.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 23 May 2001, Jacques A. Vidrine wrote: > You are not the only one. I can appreciate the `neat' factor, but I > cringed at the commit. It seems like functionality that would be > better put in a separate utility (or port even). It's not like you'd > ever want to run the NVT protocol over an AF_UNIX socket. It depends on how you look at it. If you see telnet as a network client, then you cringe at this (I did initially). But when you think about it, all telnet really does is connect to sockets, so why not extend its functionality to local sockets? -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 11:21:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [208.42.49.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C85ED37B424 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 11:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from shade.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [208.42.49.153]) by gw.nectar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E9E018CB0; Thu, 24 May 2001 13:21:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nectar@localhost) by shade.nectar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4OILme14231; Thu, 24 May 2001 13:21:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from nectar) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:21:44 -0500 From: "Jacques A. Vidrine" To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] Message-ID: <20010524132144.A14177@shade.nectar.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" , Gordon Tetlow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010523220844.A26487@shade.nectar.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from gordont@bluemtn.net on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:10:10AM -0700 X-Url: http://www.nectar.com/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [cc: trimmed] On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:10:10AM -0700, Gordon Tetlow wrote: > It depends on how you look at it. If you see telnet as a network client, > then you cringe at this (I did initially). But when you think about it, > all telnet really does is connect to sockets, so why not extend its > functionality to local sockets? Because `all telnet really does is connect to sockets' is patently false. Check out the nearly 100 RFCs detailing the TELNET protocol. Almost none of these make much sense to do over UNIX domain sockets [1]. A small tool that `just connects to sockets' would certainly be handy. However, that's why there are things such as netcat. Cheers, -- Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / jvidrine@verio.net / nectar@FreeBSD.org [1] I think it was Peter who did mention one application of this (NVT over AF_UNIX), which would be for communication with `jails'. This is pretty specialized, and requires a telnet daemon that listens on AF_UNIX as well. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 11:31:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D257E37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 11:31:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.185.90] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 152ztL-00028d-00; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:31:24 -0400 Received: from daydream (mail@daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f4OIEZh25206; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 152zd3-0002jH-00; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:14:33 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:14:33 -0400 From: Shannon Hendrix To: Rik van Riel Cc: "Andresen,Jason R." , Kris Kennaway , Nadav Eiron , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010524141431.A8556@widomaker.com> References: <20010523234910.B19185@widomaker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from riel@conectiva.com.br on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 12:25:59PM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 12:25:59PM -0300, Rik van Riel wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2001, Shannon wrote: > > On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 10:54:40PM -0300, Rik van Riel wrote: > > > > > 1. I don't think I've ever seen a Linux distro which has write > > > caching enabled by default. Hell, DMA33 isn't even enabled > > > by default ;) > > > > You are talking about controlling the IDE drive cache. > > > > The issue here is write cache in the filesystem code. > > 1) IIRC they were talking about hw.ata.wc In a subthread, yeah. I think though, the overall issue is the caching ext2 does that ufs does not. I'm not even sure that soft updates is quite the same thing. I think the soft-updates paper mentions that it shouldn't increase risk, while a lot of people feel like ext2 is very risky. I never really notice a big difference when I turn on write caching with my system (on the hard drive). It's been awhile since I did any benchmarks though, since I no longer run IDE drives on most systems. You can control the cache on them too with the right scsi tools, but I've not really messed with it. -- "There is no such thing as security. Life is either bold | | | adventure, or it is nothing -- Helen Keller" | | | ________________________________________________________________ / | \ s h a n n o n @ w i d o m a k e r . c o m _/ | \_ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 11:52:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [207.167.3.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC76A37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 11:52:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4OIqEt00948; Thu, 24 May 2001 12:52:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Message-Id: <200105241852.f4OIqEt00948@orthanc.ab.ca> From: Lyndon Nerenberg Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: /dev/null@orthanc.ab.ca Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 May 2001 11:10:10 PDT." Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:52:14 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Gordon" == Gordon Tetlow writes: Gordon> It depends on how you look at it. If you see telnet as a Gordon> network client, then you cringe at this PF_UNIX is a network protocol on par with PF_INET, or any other PF_*. This thread is getting silly. Let's give it a rest. --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 11:56:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [207.167.3.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8683B37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 11:56:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4OIuSt00994; Thu, 24 May 2001 12:56:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Message-Id: <200105241856.f4OIuSt00994@orthanc.ab.ca> From: Lyndon Nerenberg Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 May 2001 13:21:44 CDT." <20010524132144.A14177@shade.nectar.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:56:28 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Jacques" == Jacques A Vidrine writes: Jacques> [1] I think it was Peter who did mention one application Jacques> of this (NVT over AF_UNIX), which would be for Jacques> communication with `jails'. This is pretty specialized, Jacques> and requires a telnet daemon that listens on AF_UNIX as Jacques> well. As a more general solution I have an inetd that groks AF_UNIX. You would have to add chroot/jail support to it, though, and some would argue that that's making inetd a bit featureful. --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 12: 9:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from po3.glue.umd.edu (po3.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D7337B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 12:09:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@Glue.umd.edu) Received: from y.glue.umd.edu (IDENT:root@y.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.68]) by po3.glue.umd.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4OJ9hu20399; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from y.glue.umd.edu (IDENT:sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by y.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA04058; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by y.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04054; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:09:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: y.glue.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:09:43 -0400 (EDT) From: James Howard To: Lyndon Nerenberg Cc: "Jacques A. Vidrine" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] In-Reply-To: <200105241856.f4OIuSt00994@orthanc.ab.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 May 2001, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > As a more general solution I have an inetd that groks AF_UNIX. You > would have to add chroot/jail support to it, though, and some would > argue that that's making inetd a bit featureful. Right, its *inetd*, not unetd (Unix net?:) Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 12:14:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rapier.smartspace.co.za (rapier.smartspace.co.za [66.8.25.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 27FB337B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 12:14:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@rapier.smartspace.co.za) Received: (qmail 20742 invoked by uid 1001); 24 May 2001 19:14:02 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 21:14:02 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" Cc: James Howard , Matt Dillon , Alfred Perlstein , Lyndon Nerenberg , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] Message-ID: <20010524211402.A20014@rapier.smartspace.co.za> References: <200105232304.f4NN44h17482@earth.backplane.com> <20010523220844.A26487@shade.nectar.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010523220844.A26487@shade.nectar.com>; from n@nectar.com on Wed, May 23, 2001 at 10:08:44PM -0500 Organization: Building Intelligence X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed 2001-05-23 (22:08), Jacques A. Vidrine wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 08:10:20PM -0400, James Howard wrote: > > I am missing something here. Is there a practical use for this? :) > > You are not the only one. I can appreciate the `neat' factor, but I > cringed at the commit. It seems like functionality that would be > better put in a separate utility (or port even). It's not like you'd > ever want to run the NVT protocol over an AF_UNIX socket. I'm currently using pppctl for this function, in the absence of anything else in base that can do this. To good effect, I might add. ;) Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 12:14:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (beachchick.freebsd.dk [212.242.34.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295A837B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 12:14:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4OJDpm79153; Thu, 24 May 2001 21:13:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: James Howard Cc: Lyndon Nerenberg , "Jacques A. Vidrine" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 24 May 2001 15:09:43 EDT." Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 21:13:51 +0200 Message-ID: <79151.990731631@critter> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message , James Howa rd writes: >On Thu, 24 May 2001, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > >> As a more general solution I have an inetd that groks AF_UNIX. You >> would have to add chroot/jail support to it, though, and some would >> argue that that's making inetd a bit featureful. > >Right, its *inetd*, not unetd (Unix net?:) Right, and just what was it the 'Inter' in InterNet referred to ? "Interconnected Networks", that's what. And nowhere does it say that these nets can be running IP only... Let me remind you that inetd already does RPC based stuff, which for all practical intents and purposes is a separate protocol (at least it has it's own namespace, that's close enough for me) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 13:17:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from maxim.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B16537B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 13:17:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb@gbch.net) Received: (qmail 93236 invoked by uid 1001); 25 May 2001 06:17:33 +1000 Message-ID: X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.19 02-May-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-Location: Brisbane, Australia; 27.49841S 152.98439E X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb.html X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-auug048.gif X-GPG-Fingerprint: EBB2 2A92 A79D 1533 AC00 3C46 5D83 B6FB 4B04 B7D6 X-PGP-Public-Keys: http://www.gbch.net/keys.html Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 06:17:33 +1000 From: Greg Black To: "Andresen,Jason R." Cc: void , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <20010524082013.G88992-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> In-reply-to: <20010524082013.G88992-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> of Thu, 24 May 2001 08:24:29 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Andresen,Jason R." wrote: | On Thu, 24 May 2001, void wrote: | | > On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:20:51AM -0400, Andresen,Jason R. wrote: | > > | > > Why is knowing the file names cheating? It is almost certain | > > that the application will know the names of it's own files | > > (and won't be grepping the entire directory every time it | > > needs to find a file). | > | > With 60,000 files, that would have the application duplicating | > 60,000 pieces of information that are stored by the operating system. | > Operations like open() and unlink() still have to search the directory | > to get the inode, so there isn't much incentive for an application to | > do that, I think. | | This still doesn't make sense to me. It's not like the program is going | to want to do a "find" on the directory every time it has some data it | wants to put somewhere. I think for the majority of the cases (I'm sure | there are exceptions) an application program that wants to interact with | files will know what filename it wants ahead of time. This doesn't | necessarily mean storing 60,000 filenames either, it could be something | like: | I have files fooX where X is a number from 00000 to 60000 in that | directory. I need to find a piece of information, so I run that | information through a hash of some sort and determine that the file I want | is number 23429, so I open that file. And if this imaginary program is going to do that, it's equally easy to use a multilevel directory structure and that will make the life of all users of the system simpler. There's no real excuse for directories with millions (or even thousands) of files. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 13:24:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEAF137B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 13:24:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4OKO3530561; Thu, 24 May 2001 13:24:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:24:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105242024.f4OKO3530561@earth.backplane.com> To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" Cc: Gordon Tetlow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] References: <20010523220844.A26487@shade.nectar.com> <20010524132144.A14177@shade.nectar.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Because `all telnet really does is connect to sockets' is patently :false. Check out the nearly 100 RFCs detailing the TELNET protocol. :Almost none of these make much sense to do over UNIX domain sockets :[1]. Huh? Oh yah, *that* protocol. Telnet only does that if the server is a telnetd. Otherwise it's just straight character I/O. Any experienced sysad knows this from telneting to the web server or smtp server or pop server, etc etc etc. Being able to telnet to a unix domain socket is no different. Unix domain sockets are a good test of experience. They are obscure enough that many people don't even realize they exist (and even fewer know that you can pass file descriptors over them). But unix-domain sockets are extremely useful in all manner of applications and the more sophisticated programmers use them all over the place. Being able to telnet to one is natural. Over the years I've probably written the 'connect to unix domain socket' program 50 times because it wasn't standard in a system. Now it is. Yahhh. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 13:35:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9BE37B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 13:35:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02264; Thu, 24 May 2001 16:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11419; Thu, 24 May 2001 16:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dhcp-105-164.mitre.org (128.29.105.164) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 6591401; Thu, 24 May 2001 16:34:09 -0400 Message-ID: <3B0D705B.189A5C28@mitre.org> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:34:35 -0400 From: Jason Andresen Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-20000818M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Black Cc: void , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <20010524082013.G88992-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Black wrote: > > "Andresen,Jason R." wrote: > | This still doesn't make sense to me. It's not like the program is going > | to want to do a "find" on the directory every time it has some data it > | wants to put somewhere. I think for the majority of the cases (I'm sure > | there are exceptions) an application program that wants to interact with > | files will know what filename it wants ahead of time. This doesn't > | necessarily mean storing 60,000 filenames either, it could be something > | like: > | I have files fooX where X is a number from 00000 to 60000 in that > | directory. I need to find a piece of information, so I run that > | information through a hash of some sort and determine that the file I want > | is number 23429, so I open that file. > > And if this imaginary program is going to do that, it's equally > easy to use a multilevel directory structure and that will make > the life of all users of the system simpler. There's no real > excuse for directories with millions (or even thousands) of > files. No, there is no excuse, however some third party application (FOR WHICH YOU DO NOT HAVE THE SOURCE[1]) may do it anyway. In the original parent of this post that was the exact situtation. It would be nice if everybody followed the rules and played nice, but it is just something you can't count on in real life. [1] Emphasis added because for people in the Free Software business, it is easy to forget that you don't always have access to the source code, and convincing a company to rewrite their product because it doesn't like your (almost certainly unsupported) OS smacks of futility. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 13:39:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [207.167.3.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE44437B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 13:39:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4OKdnt02359 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:39:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Message-Id: <200105242039.f4OKdnt02359@orthanc.ab.ca> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: AF_UNIX for inetd Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:39:48 -0600 From: Lyndon Nerenberg Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've put up my AF_UNIX patches for inetd at: ftp://orthanc.ab.ca/lyndon/freebsd/inetd.AF_UNIX.patch The indentation is really gross. I did most of the edits with emacs using its default C style. I didn't want to run the source through indent in case the whitespace diffs obscured the real bits. --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 14: 0:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (orthanc.ab.ca [207.167.3.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 919E737B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:00:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from orthanc.ab.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4OL0Rt02498 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:00:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Message-Id: <200105242100.f4OL0Rt02498@orthanc.ab.ca> From: Lyndon Nerenberg Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 May 2001 13:24:03 PDT." <200105242024.f4OKO3530561@earth.backplane.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:00:27 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> "Matt" == Matt Dillon writes: Matt> But unix-domain sockets are Matt> extremely useful in all manner of applications They're also anywhere from 10-400% faster than PF_INET for connections to the localhost (it varies a lot between different UNIX implementations). --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 14: 1:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB8C37B424 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id x.18.d428b5e (25309); Thu, 24 May 2001 17:00:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: <18.d428b5e.283ed07c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:00:44 EDT Subject: Re: technical comparison To: jandrese@mitre.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 05/23/2001 5:04:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jandrese@mitre.org writes: > > > > Tell them to fire 20K packets/second at the linux box and watch it crumble. > > > Linux has lots of little kludges to make it appear faster on some > benchmarks, > > but from a networking standpoint it cant handle significant network loads. > > > Are you sure this is still true? The 2.4.x series kernel was supposed to > have significant networking improvements over the previous kernels. I dont know, but I doubt it. the problem isnt the networking preformance, its the inability of the memory system and the ethernet drivers to handle overloads properly. They are modeled in a way that fails in practice. Bryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 14: 1:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F90437B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:01:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4OL1uN31979; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:01:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:01:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105242101.f4OL1uN31979@earth.backplane.com> To: Lyndon Nerenberg Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AF_UNIX for inetd References: <200105242039.f4OKdnt02359@orthanc.ab.ca> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I've put up my AF_UNIX patches for inetd at: : : ftp://orthanc.ab.ca/lyndon/freebsd/inetd.AF_UNIX.patch : :The indentation is really gross. I did most of the edits with emacs :using its default C style. I didn't want to run the source through :indent in case the whitespace diffs obscured the real bits. : :--lyndon Hmm. Looks fairly straight forward. I can fix up the indentation. How about I commit it to -current on friday or saturay, after I MFC the telnet patch to -stable (so I don't have too many balls in the air at once. I'm also dealing with the O_DIRECT stuff this week). -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 14: 4:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D9437B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:04:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4OL4K432062; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:04:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:04:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105242104.f4OL4K432062@earth.backplane.com> To: Lyndon Nerenberg Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] References: <200105242100.f4OL0Rt02498@orthanc.ab.ca> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : Matt> But unix-domain sockets are : Matt> extremely useful in all manner of applications : :They're also anywhere from 10-400% faster than PF_INET for connections :to the localhost (it varies a lot between different UNIX :implementations). : :--lyndon What, you don't think we should be doing the TCP protocol over a localhost socket? :-) :-o :-) ;-o. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 14:31:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4946A37B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:31:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09851; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:30:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA4RaiTs; Thu May 24 14:30:24 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA22909; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:38:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200105242138.OAA22909@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: technical comparison To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, nadav@cs.Technion.AC.IL, jandrese@mitre.org, acahalan@cs.uml.edu Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 21:38:43 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ] Terry Lambert writes: ] ] > I don't understand the inability to perform the trivial ] > design engineering necessary to keep from needing to put ] > 60,000 files in one directory. ] > ] > However, we can take it as a given that people who need ] > to do this are incapable of doing computer science. ] ] One could say the same about the design engineering necessary ] to handle 60,000 files in one directory. You're making excuses. No, I'm not. I released trie patches for FreeBSD directory sotrage in 1995. No one thought they were very useful, because only morons would treat a filesystem as if it were a database, instead of using a database as a database. If you want to get technical, a filesystem is a form of a database... but it's a _hierarchical_ database, like DNS or LDAP, and trying to use it as a _relational_ database, with key/value pairs, is still a stupid idea. Use the right tool for the job. ] People _want_ to do this, and it often performs better on ] a modern filesystem. This is not about need; it's about ] keeping ugly hacks out of the app code. ] ] http://www.namesys.com/5_1.html I'm glad you said "people want to do this" instead of saying "computer professionals want to do this". The 60,000 file "benchmark" is meaningless to a properly designed system. ] > (the rationale behind this last is that people who can't ] > design around needing 60,000 files in a single directory ] > are probably going to to be unable to correctly remember ] > the names of the files they created, since if they could, ] > then they could remember things like ./a/a/aardvark or ] > ./a/b/abominable). ] ] Eeew. "./a/b/abominable" is a disgusting old hack used to ] work around traditional filesystem deficiencies. No, it's a hack to work around being too damn lazy to use a database where it makes sense to use a database. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 14:53:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11AF637B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:53:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4OLr6M94027 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:53:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9665380C; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:53:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Matt Dillon Cc: Lyndon Nerenberg , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] In-Reply-To: <200105242104.f4OL4K432062@earth.backplane.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:53:06 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010524215306.D9665380C@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matt Dillon wrote: > : Matt> But unix-domain sockets are > : Matt> extremely useful in all manner of applications > : > :They're also anywhere from 10-400% faster than PF_INET for connections > :to the localhost (it varies a lot between different UNIX > :implementations). > : > :--lyndon > > What, you don't think we should be doing the TCP protocol over a > localhost socket? :-) :-o :-) ;-o. Damn right. :-) Linux doesn't seem to (for what that's worth). Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 15: 6:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.matriplex.com (ns1.matriplex.com [208.131.42.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D1437B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:06:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Received: from mail.matriplex.com (mail.matriplex.com [208.131.42.9]) by mail.matriplex.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA77102 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:06:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:06:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Knob for ATA maximum UDMA? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was just testing out a new configuration, when I get two of these about an hour apart, and then another today: ts8 /kernel: ad4: READ command timeout tag=0 serv=0 - resetting ts8 /kernel: ata2: resetting devices .. done Needless to say, this is a problem. Here is the boot info: ts8 /kernel: ad0: 29311MB [59554/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA66 ts8 /kernel: ad3: 29311MB [59554/16/63] at ata1-slave UDMA66 ts8 /kernel: ad4: 29311MB [59554/16/63] at ata2-master UDMA100 ts8 /kernel: ad5: 29311MB [59554/16/63] at ata2-slave UDMA100 The first two are on a VIA 82C686 bridge, the second two are HPT370. I am wondering if UDMA100 is just too much for the cabling, and am interested in finding out whether running them all at UDMA33 would provide an extra safety margin. I see in dev/ata/ata-dma.c, ata_dmainit() checks some cable flag, and reduces the UDMA capability to UDMA33 if neccessary. This seems like a decent place to hardwire it for testing. Is there any other place that also needs to be changed? If there actually is a difference in stability, would anyone favor a new sysctl to put an arbitrary cap on the UDMA capabilities? As far as I can tell, there should not be ANY performance difference between UDMA100 and UDMA66, or even with UDMA33 if there is only one drive per cable. Comments and suggestions are appreciated :-) -Richard ------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | Matriplex, inc. Product Manager | 769 Basque Way rh@matriplex.com | Carson City, NV 89706 775-886-6477 | www.matriplex.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 15:23:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from terror.hungry.com (terror.hungry.com [199.181.107.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B095F37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:23:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bpk@Hungry.COM) Received: (qmail 9963 invoked from network); 24 May 2001 22:23:25 -0000 Received: from starvation.hungry.com (199.181.107.58) by terror.hungry.com with SMTP; 24 May 2001 22:23:25 -0000 Received: (from Unknown UID 554@localhost) by starvation.hungry.com (8.11.0.Beta3/8.11.0.Beta3) id f4OMNSm16593; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:23:28 -0700 (PDT) From: bpk@Hungry.COM Message-Id: <200105242223.f4OMNSm16593@starvation.hungry.com> Subject: Fix for ATAPI CDRW problem: MODE_SELECT_BIG - ILLEGAL REQUEST asc=1a To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sos@freebsd.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I recently acquired a new Yamaha 2100E ATAPI CDRW drive, and encountered this error during the fixation stage with burncd on a FreeBSD 4.3 release system: burncd: ioctl(CDRIOCCLOSEDISK): Input/output error and the kernel complains: acd0: MODE_SELECT_BIG - ILLEGAL REQUEST asc=1a ascq=00 error=00 After perusing the ATA/ATAPI-5 and MMC-3 specifications I realized that the asc=1a error (PARAMETER LENGTH LIST ERROR) was telling me that the CDRW drive wasn't happy with the length of the CLOSE DISK mode page that was being sent to it. In atapi-cd.c the acd_close_disk() function is sending the write_param mode page structure in the CLOSE DISK command to the drive. Upon examination of struct write_param in atapi-cd.h I noticed sure enough the last four bytes of the page were commented out: /* u_int8_t vendor_specific_byte0; u_int8_t vendor_specific_byte1; u_int8_t vendor_specific_byte2; u_int8_t vendor_specific_byte3; */ I uncommented these lines, recompiled/rebooted, and tried burncd again. This time it failed right away on the CDRIOCOPENDISK ioctl, with the kernel error being something about an invalid parameter. So I reverted struct write_param back to the original commented version. But I copied write_param to a new struct called full_write_param and uncommented the last 4 bytes. I then changed acd_close_disk() to use the full_write_param struct rather than the original write_param struct. Recompiled/rebooted. The result: success! The Yamaha 2100E doesn't want the last 4 bytes in the mode page for OPEN DISK but does for CLOSE DISK. Here's a cvs diff off the FreeBSD 4.3 release files: Index: atapi-cd.h =================================================================== RCS file: /d1/FreeBSD/FreeBSD_CVS/src/sys/dev/ata/atapi-cd.h,v retrieving revision 1.15.2.6 diff -r1.15.2.6 atapi-cd.h 269a270,338 > /* > CDROM Write Parameters Mode Page (Burners ONLY) > Contains the last 4 vendor specific bytes. > */ > struct full_write_param { > /* mode page data header */ > u_int16_t data_length; > u_int8_t medium_type; > u_int8_t dev_spec; > u_int8_t unused[2]; > u_int16_t blk_desc_len; > > /* write parameters page */ > u_int8_t page_code; > #define ATAPI_CDROM_WRITE_PARAMETERS_PAGE 0x05 > > u_int8_t page_length; /* 0x32 */ > u_int8_t write_type :4; /* write stream type */ > #define CDR_WTYPE_PACKET 0x00 > #define CDR_WTYPE_TRACK 0x01 > #define CDR_WTYPE_SESSION 0x02 > #define CDR_WTYPE_RAW 0x03 > > u_int8_t test_write :1; /* test write enable */ > u_int8_t reserved2_5 :1; > u_int8_t burnproof :1; /* BurnProof enable */ > u_int8_t reserved2_7 :1; > u_int8_t track_mode :4; /* track mode */ > #define CDR_TMODE_AUDIO 0x00 > #define CDR_TMODE_AUDIO_PREEMP 0x01 > #define CDR_TMODE_ALLOW_COPY 0x02 > #define CDR_TMODE_DATA 0x04 > #define CDR_TMODE_QUAD_AUDIO 0x08 > > u_int8_t copy :1; /* generation stamp */ > u_int8_t fp :1; /* fixed packet type */ > u_int8_t session_type :2; /* session type */ > #define CDR_SESS_NONE 0x00 > #define CDR_SESS_FINAL 0x01 > #define CDR_SESS_RESERVED 0x02 > #define CDR_SESS_MULTI 0x03 > > u_int8_t datablock_type :4; /* data type code (see cdrio.h) */ > u_int8_t reserved4_4567 :4; > u_int8_t reserved5; > u_int8_t reserved6; > u_int8_t host_app_code :6; /* host application code */ > u_int8_t reserved7_67 :2; > u_int8_t session_format; /* session format */ > #define CDR_SESS_CDROM 0x00 > #define CDR_SESS_CDI 0x10 > #define CDR_SESS_CDROM_XA 0x20 > > u_int8_t reserved9; > u_int32_t packet_size; /* packet size in bytes */ > u_int16_t audio_pause_length; /* audio pause length in secs */ > u_int8_t media_catalog_number[16]; > u_int8_t isr_code[16]; > u_int8_t sub_hdr_byte0; > u_int8_t sub_hdr_byte1; > u_int8_t sub_hdr_byte2; > u_int8_t sub_hdr_byte3; > > u_int8_t vendor_specific_byte0; > u_int8_t vendor_specific_byte1; > u_int8_t vendor_specific_byte2; > u_int8_t vendor_specific_byte3; > } __attribute__((packed)); > Index: atapi-cd.c =================================================================== RCS file: /d1/FreeBSD/FreeBSD_CVS/src/sys/dev/ata/atapi-cd.c,v retrieving revision 1.48.2.10 diff -r1.48.2.10 atapi-cd.c 1371c1371 < struct write_param param; --- > struct full_write_param param; -- Brian Koehmstedt bpk@hungry.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 15:24:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1E937B424 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:24:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08777 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:24:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAaAaWce; Thu May 24 15:11:40 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA13693 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:35:47 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200105242235.PAA13693@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: technical comparison To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:34:26 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ] > 1. I don't think I've ever seen a Linux distro which has write ] > caching enabled by default. Hell, DMA33 isn't even enabled ] > by default ;) ] ] You are talking about controlling the IDE drive cache. ] ] The issue here is write cache in the filesystem code. No. The issue here is the write cache on the drive. FreeBSD with soft updates will operate within 4% of the top memory bandwidth; see the Ganger/Patt paper on the technology. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 15:42:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bdr-xcon.matchlogic.com (mail.matchlogic.com [205.216.147.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C22F037B424 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:42:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crandall@matchlogic.com) Received: by mail.matchlogic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 24 May 2001 16:42:32 -0600 Message-ID: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B30130828EE59@bdr-xcln.corp.matchlogic.com> From: Charles Randall To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: technical comparison Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:42:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Greg Black [mailto:gjb@gbch.net] >And if this imaginary program is going to do that, it's equally >easy to use a multilevel directory structure and that will make >the life of all users of the system simpler. There's no real >excuse for directories with millions (or even thousands) of >files. While I agree completely that there's no excuse for applications that behave like that, a filesystem that scales well under these harsh conditions will serve us all better in the long run. Charles To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 15:47:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3249A37B422; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:47:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA35999; Thu, 24 May 2001 17:47:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:47:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: Cc: , Subject: Re: Seeking recommendations for backup system In-Reply-To: <13991.990660758@verdi.nethelp.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 May 2001 sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: > I'm seeking recommendation for a backup system (software) that can > be used with a decent sized tape library, probably LTO based, and > FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE. > > I'm sure we could roll our based on freely available tools (eg. > Amanda) - but by now I'm used to Tivoli ADSM/TSM, and *like* the > convenience ADSM/TSM offers. We need the ability to make backups > (via Fast Ethernet) primarily of FreeBSD servers, but also > Solaris, Linux and HP-UX. Easy restore is important. > > (So why not buy TSM again? Primarily the price. We'll do it if we > have to, but would prefer something slightly less expensive and > also less complex.) I just mentioned this to someone else who asked a similar question elsewhere, but Veritas NetBackup (NOT BackupExec -- different animal) has a native FreeBSD 3.2 agent that works very well on FreeBSD 3.2 and up (I use it with 4.3-STABLE at the moment). They've got backup agents for a whole mess of platforms. You can also use any combination of NT, Solaris, Linux, and HP-UX servers. You've pretty much got the run of the park on that one. :-) If you call up Veritas, they should be more than happy to send you a time-limited (90 days, IIRC) demo. I asked for one before we decided to buy it and they shipped the CDs and demo license keys to me next-day. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 15:51:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from messiah.megadeb.org (cpe.atm0-0-0-218131.arcnxx5.customer.tele.dk [62.242.79.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A41437B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:51:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from messiah@runbox.com) Received: (from messiah@localhost) by messiah.megadeb.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4OMqTv07673 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 May 2001 00:52:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from messiah) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 00:52:28 +0200 From: Munish Chopra To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fix for ATAPI CDRW problem: MODE_SELECT_BIG - ILLEGAL REQUEST asc=1a Message-ID: <20010525005228.D7219@messiah.megadeb.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <200105242223.f4OMNSm16593@starvation.hungry.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <200105242223.f4OMNSm16593@starvation.hungry.com>; from bpk@Hungry.COM on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 03:23:28PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 03:23:28PM -0700, bpk@Hungry.COM wrote: > > I recently acquired a new Yamaha 2100E ATAPI CDRW drive, and encountered > this error during the fixation stage with burncd on a FreeBSD 4.3 release > system: > > burncd: ioctl(CDRIOCCLOSEDISK): Input/output error > > and the kernel complains: > > acd0: MODE_SELECT_BIG - ILLEGAL REQUEST asc=1a ascq=00 error=00 > > After perusing the ATA/ATAPI-5 and MMC-3 specifications I realized that the > asc=1a error (PARAMETER LENGTH LIST ERROR) was telling me that the CDRW > drive wasn't happy with the length of the CLOSE DISK mode page that was > being sent to it. > > In atapi-cd.c the acd_close_disk() function is sending the write_param > mode page structure in the CLOSE DISK command to the drive. > > Upon examination of struct write_param in atapi-cd.h I noticed sure enough > the last four bytes of the page were commented out: > /* > u_int8_t vendor_specific_byte0; > u_int8_t vendor_specific_byte1; > u_int8_t vendor_specific_byte2; > u_int8_t vendor_specific_byte3; > */ > > I uncommented these lines, recompiled/rebooted, and tried burncd again. > This time it failed right away on the CDRIOCOPENDISK ioctl, with the kernel > error being something about an invalid parameter. > > So I reverted struct write_param back to the original commented version. > But I copied write_param to a new struct called full_write_param and > uncommented the last 4 bytes. I then changed acd_close_disk() to use the > full_write_param struct rather than the original write_param struct. > > Recompiled/rebooted. > > The result: success! I'm not sure how things work here on -hackers yet, but I know Søren (sos@freebsd.dk) is handling the burncd stuff. You might want to send him a copy of that patch. -- -Munish To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 16:13: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from newsguy.com (smtp.newsguy.com [209.155.56.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B8937B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 16:13:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (ppp185-bsace7001.telebrasilia.net.br [200.181.80.185]) by newsguy.com (8.11.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f4ONArF04660; Thu, 24 May 2001 16:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B0D9530.37134D9@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:11:44 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,pt,en-GB,en-US,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shannon Hendrix Cc: Rik van Riel , "Andresen,Jason R." , Kris Kennaway , Nadav Eiron , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <20010523234910.B19185@widomaker.com> <20010524141431.A8556@widomaker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Shannon Hendrix wrote: > > > > You are talking about controlling the IDE drive cache. > > > > > > The issue here is write cache in the filesystem code. > > > > 1) IIRC they were talking about hw.ata.wc > > In a subthread, yeah. I think though, the overall issue is the caching > ext2 does that ufs does not. I'm not even sure that soft updates is > quite the same thing. I think the soft-updates paper mentions that it > shouldn't increase risk, while a lot of people feel like ext2 is very > risky. Actually, no. Someone *specifically* mentioned that FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE disables hardware caching on IDE, and Linux does not. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@the.secret.bsdconspiracy.net wow regex humor... I'm a geek To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 16:15:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from newsguy.com (smtp.newsguy.com [209.155.56.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C2237B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 16:15:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (ppp185-bsace7001.telebrasilia.net.br [200.181.80.185]) by newsguy.com (8.11.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f4ONDPF05386; Thu, 24 May 2001 16:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B0D95CA.313F6AB6@newsguy.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:14:18 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,pt,en-GB,en-US,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jason Andresen Cc: Greg Black , void , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <20010524082013.G88992-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> <3B0D705B.189A5C28@mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jason Andresen wrote: > > > And if this imaginary program is going to do that, it's equally > > easy to use a multilevel directory structure and that will make > > the life of all users of the system simpler. There's no real > > excuse for directories with millions (or even thousands) of > > files. > > No, there is no excuse, however some third party application (FOR WHICH > YOU DO > NOT HAVE THE SOURCE[1]) may do it anyway. In the original parent of > this post > that was the exact situtation. It would be nice if everybody followed > the rules > and played nice, but it is just something you can't count on in real > life. Uhhh, no. The original message was remarking about a software development team which repeatedly fail to deliver the product to the specs asked for, and that said team blamed FreeBSD and wanted Linux instead. So the comment applies. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@the.secret.bsdconspiracy.net wow regex humor... I'm a geek To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 17:11:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rgmail.regenstrief.org (rgmail.regenstrief.org [134.68.31.197]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEBCF37B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 17:11:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org) Received: from aurora.regenstrief.org (rgnout.regenstrief.org [134.68.31.38]) by rgmail.regenstrief.org (8.11.0/8.8.7) with ESMTP id f4P0E5X08089; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:14:06 -0500 Message-ID: <3B0DA325.EC40DF62@aurora.regenstrief.org> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 00:11:17 +0000 From: Gunther Schadow Organization: Regenstrief Institute for Health Care X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Urban Olsson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: modified FreeBSD gateway References: <778DFE9B4E3BD111A74E08002BA3DC0D03DA5225@trab-hermes.haninge.trab.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Urban Olsson wrote: ... > is a little bit like a NAT but I want to be able to do it differently and on > my own terms. I guess that this means that I would be forced to rewrite the > gateway source-code so it behaves as I want it to. So the problem now is Hmm, certainly you can use the divert(4) with ipfw. But I wonder what you are trying to do? There are so many things that you can do just using the right tool that already exists without writing from scratch. Would you mind telling us what you want to accomplish? regards -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistent Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 17:24:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 885) id 3FFC737B422; Thu, 24 May 2001 17:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:24:24 -0700 From: Eric Melville To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: upgrading packages Message-ID: <20010524172424.A27572@FreeBSD.org> References: <20010520180735.C81453@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010520180735.C81453@FreeBSD.org>; from eric@FreeBSD.org on Sun, May 20, 2001 at 06:07:35PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Currently, upgrading packages is more painful than it should be. However, > it would not take much work to make things significantly more friendly - > > 1. pkg_add - when a package is installed, it should check for an older > version of itself, and if the new version provides everything > from the old one, update the associated +REQUIRED_BY files > > 2. pkg_delete - when a package is deleted, it should check for a newer > version of itself, and files that overlap between both > versions should not be deleted > > Careful users can avoid the problems that these two changes fix, but > there's really no reason to not make life simple for everyone. > > Comments? Takers? I'm a bit busy due to the finals that I've got looming on > the horizon, but I'll eventually get to it if no one else does. Nevermind, it looks like pkg_update(1) does everything I want and more. I should probably read documentation more, and complain less. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 17:26:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from m44.spnet.com (m44.spnet.com [207.181.251.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BE1E37B43C for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 17:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from elh_fbsd@spnet.com) Received: from spnet.com (localhost.spnet [127.0.0.1]) by m44.spnet.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4P0Pu905553; Thu, 24 May 2001 17:25:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from elh_fbsd@spnet.com) Message-Id: <200105250025.f4P0Pu905553@m44.spnet.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: elh_fbsd@spnet.com Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE In-Reply-To: Message from Mike Silbersack of "Thu, 24 May 2001 01:06:25 CDT." <20010524010153.L55558-100000@achilles.silby.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:25:56 -0700 From: Ed Hudson Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG fyi, here's another hw.ata.wc=1 vs hw.ata.wc=0 comparison: 4.3-RELEASE install, ASUS A7V, 800mhz, hw.ata.wc=0, express install +all, 60gig wd-600b udma100 drive, partitioned as: / 8192m swap 1024m /xtra 48023m installed from 52x cdrom. install time: 27minutes, 38 seconds (1658 seconds). a modified 4.3-RELEASE install iso (modified by replacing /floppies/boot.flp loader.rc/support.4th and adding a loader.conf, setting hw.ata.wc=1) file, written to cd. same partition, same install (express + all) install time: 8minutes, 59 seconds ( 539 seconds) 4.3-with-wc=1 / 4.3-with-wc=0 : 3.07x in both installation cases both filesystems were newfs'd, but the speed difference is evident everywhere during the install. i would urge the FreeBSD lords to consider mr. silbersack's proposal of either remaking hw.ata.wc=1 the default, or at least, consider making this the default for the base install. perhaps something analagous to the security settings (reliability settings) would be as reasonable paradigm ? thanks! -elh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 17:33:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rgmail.regenstrief.org (rgmail.regenstrief.org [134.68.31.197]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D17F37B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 17:33:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org) Received: from aurora.regenstrief.org (rgnout.regenstrief.org [134.68.31.38]) by rgmail.regenstrief.org (8.11.0/8.8.7) with ESMTP id f4P0aLX08190 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:36:21 -0500 Message-ID: <3B0DA85C.C08C952D@aurora.regenstrief.org> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 00:33:32 +0000 From: Gunther Schadow Organization: Regenstrief Institute for Health Care X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD/VAX anyone interested? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I got some VAXen 6420, big machines. Mine has 6 CPUs. I was planning to boot myself with Ultrix, and then go on with NetBSD. Even NetBSD's port-vax needs some tweaking for my hardware, XMI and BI bus support is blank. I am with FreeBSD forever and FreeBSD has SMP which NetBSD has not. I want to run all of my 6 CPUs not just one. So, I am thinking about taking the Alpha port and reverse hacking it into a VAX port with lots of cheating with the NetBSD code. I was just wondering if there are any retro computing freaks with FreeBSD who like to play with this too. If I'm alone I probably better stay with the nice port-vax crowd and NetBSD. cheers, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistent Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 18: 0:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54AFE37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 18:00:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.179.174] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 1535y3-000PD4-00; Thu, 24 May 2001 21:00:39 -0400 Received: from daydream (mail@daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f4P0YHb02207; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1535YX-0003wR-00; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:34:17 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:34:17 -0400 From: Shannon Hendrix To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: jandrese@mitre.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010524203415.A13575@widomaker.com> References: <18.d428b5e.283ed07c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <18.d428b5e.283ed07c@aol.com>; from Bsdguru@aol.com on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 05:00:44PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 05:00:44PM -0400, Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > > > Linux has lots of little kludges to make it appear faster on some > > benchmarks, > > > but from a networking standpoint it cant handle significant network > loads. > > > > > Are you sure this is still true? The 2.4.x series kernel was supposed to > > have significant networking improvements over the previous kernels. > > I dont know, but I doubt it. There were significant network and memory improvements in the 2.4 release. There were also some improvements that will have to wait for the next release, but overall it is much improved. FreeBSD 4.3 is much improved over 2.x and 3.x, so I'm not sure why that would be considered unusual or surprising. The memory system in Linux is still set up by default to give more speed at the expense of smooth load handling. It seems better, but you have to go into /proc and tune things to get better load handling. > the problem isnt the networking preformance, its the inability of the > memory system and the ethernet drivers to handle overloads properly. > They are modeled in a way that fails in practice. The way I understood it was certain drivers were more affected by this than others. Some were just fine, and handled very high loads. Another problem was multiple ethernet cards, but I forgot what caused that. A lot of that was addressed in the 2.4 release, and it seems to have made a lot of people happier. I can't test the difference because I have nothing but 10mbit ethernet. However, the 2.4 kernel is definitely faster in my day-to-day work, and has allowed me to delay a complete move to FreeBSD 4.x on my workstation. It was that much of a step forward. Now I can wait until I get proper 3D support for my nVidia graphics card. -- "We have nothing to prove" -- Alan Dawkins To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 18:28:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from www.medsp.com (wannabe.guru.org [209.203.250.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFEFF37B43E; Thu, 24 May 2001 18:28:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@www.medsp.com) Received: (from scott@localhost) by www.medsp.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f4P1Q4a15014; Thu, 24 May 2001 18:26:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 18:26:03 -0700 From: Scott Gasch To: questions@freebsd.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: memory protection question Message-ID: <20010524182603.A14984@www.medsp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I am on a 4.2-BETA system (yes I know its time to upgrade) and have question about memory protection. I am trying to use the mprotect syscall to change the protection of a page aligned memory buffer (which was allocated with malloc). The size of the buffer i want to protect is also a page multiple. The call succeeds but then appears to have protected more than I asked for. In fact I am takign a SIGBUS trying to touch a page about 10 pages before the start of the buffer I passed to mprotect. I read in the mprotect man page: Not all implementations will guarantee protection on a page basis; the granularity of protection changes may be as large as an entire region. What does this mean? What's a region? Why can't I change the protection on a per-page basis? Perhaps another syscall does this? Do I need to mmap before I mprotect? Is there any way to do this without mmapping? Much appreciate the help, Scott -- Scott Gasch scott@wannabe.guru.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 19: 6: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6385537B422; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (billy-club.village.org [10.0.0.3]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4P25v667854; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:05:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by billy-club.village.org (8.11.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id f4P262l39959; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200105250206.f4P262l39959@billy-club.village.org> To: Alexander Langer Subject: Re: Device driver questions Cc: SJ , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 23 May 2001 08:58:57 +0200." <20010523085857.B1103@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> References: <20010523085857.B1103@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> <20010523003414.51600.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:06:02 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010523085857.B1103@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> Alexander Langer writes: : Thus spake SJ (sandejain@rocketmail.com): : : Hi! : : > 1. "ioconf.c" contains struct config_resource and : > config_device definitions for declarations in : > "config" file. But I noticed that for some devices : > e.g. device atadisk : > device atapicd : > ... : > the corresponding lines in ioconf.c are missing?? : : I think it's because ata is a self-identifying bus. : Not sure, though. Are any PCI-only devices listed? That's because that is handled in two ways. One is by the hints mechanism. The other is by the DRIVER_MODULE at the end of the driver. : > 3. File naming question: : > whats the reasoning behind having "bus.h" and : > "bus_private.h"....whats the significance of : > "private" here. : : drivers include bus.h, kernel does also include bus_private.h bus_private.h contains stuff that you should consider to be 100% hands off. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 19: 7: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E58A37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:06:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (billy-club.village.org [10.0.0.3]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4P26s667862; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:06:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by billy-club.village.org (8.11.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id f4P26wl39972; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:06:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200105250206.f4P26wl39972@billy-club.village.org> To: j mckitrick Subject: Re: removing inb()/outb() from devices Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 23 May 2001 17:15:39 BST." <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:06:58 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> j mckitrick writes: : I'd like to finalize the newbus work by changing inb()/outb() calls to : bus_space_write calls. Is there a device where this has been partially done : already? I'd like to see the old and new styles, then i would fix the : vpo/imm zip driver first, since i know that code well. After that, i could : start working my way through the tree. Look at what I just did to the pcic_isa.c and pcic.c drivers wrt to converting from using inb/outb to using bus_space routines. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 19: 8: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D2737B422; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:07:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (billy-club.village.org [10.0.0.3]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4P27w667870; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:07:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by billy-club.village.org (8.11.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id f4P283l39985; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200105250208.f4P283l39985@billy-club.village.org> To: SJ Subject: Re: Device driver questions Cc: Alexander Langer , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 23 May 2001 10:38:00 PDT." <20010523173800.84311.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010523173800.84311.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:08:03 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010523173800.84311.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> SJ writes: : But still the name "private" confuses me...according : to : me it should have been "bus_public.c". Any comments? Yes. You aren't allowed to use anything that's inside of bus_private.h in your driver. That's why it is called private. Only certain parts of the kernel are allowed to look inside. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 19: 9:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CCEF37B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:09:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (billy-club.village.org [10.0.0.3]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4P29g667879; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:09:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by billy-club.village.org (8.11.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id f4P29ll39999; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:09:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200105250209.f4P29ll39999@billy-club.village.org> To: j mckitrick Subject: Re: softc with resource sharing Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 May 2001 03:34:53 BST." <20010524033453.A57329@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010524033453.A57329@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:09:47 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010524033453.A57329@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> j mckitrick writes: : Any devices using the ppbus will end up sharing the hardware port. If i want : to access this resource info, should i store it in my local driver's softc : structure, or extract it from the parent device (ppbus)? There should be a method for getting the resource for the parent. bus_alloc_resource is that method. The parent should manage its children's resources, even if they all map to the same port(s). You shouldn't be extracting it more directly from the parent. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 19:12:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D3D937B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:12:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (billy-club.village.org [10.0.0.3]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4P2CL667895; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:12:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by billy-club.village.org (8.11.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id f4P2CQl40015; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:12:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200105250212.f4P2CQl40015@billy-club.village.org> To: j mckitrick Subject: Re: softc with resource sharing Cc: Alexander Langer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 May 2001 12:23:35 BST." <20010524122335.A87551@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010524122335.A87551@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010524033453.A57329@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010524113815.C981@zerogravity.kawo2.rwth-aachen.d> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:12:26 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010524122335.A87551@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> j mckitrick writes: : Well, all of the resources have already been allocated when the ppc device : has been attached. The hardware port and interrupt have already been : reserved and stored in the softc data structure for ppc. All devices : attached to ppc, like ppbus, are currently calling macros that call : hardcoded inb/outb calls in sys/isa/ppcreg.h. I am trying to figure out if : i should rewrite the macros to use the correct bus_space calls, or store the : info lower down, with each device's softc where it is more accessible. At : this point, all access to the parallel port IO registers is passed to the : ppc device, and i am wondering if this should change and be handled be each : device instead. You should likely rewrite the macros to either call a method in the parent device (eg ppbus_read_1()). The alternative would be to allocate the resource shared many times and manage it like that. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 19:36:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bsdone.bsdwins.com (www.bsdwins.com [192.58.184.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B037C37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 19:36:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jwd@bsdwins.com) Received: (from jwd@localhost) by bsdone.bsdwins.com (8.11.3/8.11.0) id f4P2aDw23093 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 24 May 2001 22:36:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jwd) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:36:13 -0400 From: John To: Hackers List Subject: sys/uio.h UIO_MAXIOV hidden inside _KERNEL Message-ID: <20010524223613.A23038@bsdwins.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Can someone provide some insight as to why UIO_MAXIOV is hidden inside _KERNEL? #ifdef _KERNEL struct uio { struct iovec *uio_iov; int uio_iovcnt; off_t uio_offset; int uio_resid; enum uio_seg uio_segflg; enum uio_rw uio_rw; struct proc *uio_procp; }; /* * Limits */ #define UIO_MAXIOV 1024 /* max 1K of iov's */ #define UIO_SMALLIOV 8 /* 8 on stack, else malloc */ UIO_MAXIOV is needed in userland to determine the maximum size of the iovec array that can be sent to readv/writev. Basically, when I get the prototypes for readv/writev, I'd also like to get the relevant arguement size limits without having to say I'm kernel code. I'm iffy on whether UIO_SMALLIOV should be made visible since it's only used in the kernel to decide how to allocate memory prior to copy in data from the user process. The following patch simply moves them down and adds a tad bit of documentation: Index: uio.h =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/sys/uio.h,v retrieving revision 1.12 diff -u -r1.12 uio.h --- uio.h 2001/02/16 14:31:49 1.12 +++ uio.h 2001/05/25 02:32:50 @@ -68,11 +68,6 @@ struct proc *uio_procp; }; -/* - * Limits - */ -#define UIO_MAXIOV 1024 /* max 1K of iov's */ -#define UIO_SMALLIOV 8 /* 8 on stack, else malloc */ struct vm_object; @@ -91,6 +86,12 @@ ssize_t readv __P((int, const struct iovec *, int)); ssize_t writev __P((int, const struct iovec *, int)); __END_DECLS + +/* + * iovec array size limits + */ +#define UIO_MAXIOV 1024 /* max 1K of iov's */ +#define UIO_SMALLIOV 8 /* 8 on stack, else malloc */ #endif /* _KERNEL */ Comments? -john To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 20:35:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD2937B42C for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:35:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from ted.isi.edu (ted.isi.edu [128.9.160.104]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4P3ZaG09646; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from faber@localhost) by ted.isi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4P3ZaL07642; Thu, 24 May 2001 20:35:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:35:36 -0700 From: Ted Faber To: Charles Randall Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010524203536.C4669@ted.isi.edu> References: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B30130828EE59@bdr-xcln.corp.matchlogic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=php-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="z6Eq5LdranGa6ru8" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <5FE9B713CCCDD311A03400508B8B30130828EE59@bdr-xcln.corp.matchlogic.com>; from crandall@matchlogic.com on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 04:42:02PM -0600 X-url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --z6Eq5LdranGa6ru8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 04:42:02PM -0600, Charles Randall wrote: > From: Greg Black [mailto:gjb@gbch.net] > > There's no real > >excuse for directories with millions (or even thousands) of > >files. > > While I agree completely that there's no excuse for applications that behave > like that, a filesystem that scales well under these harsh conditions will > serve us all better in the long run. TANSTAAFL. It's not obvious that you can get such scaling for free. If the tradeoffs to make the system perform a dumb task well mean that it won't perform a sane task well, you lose. --z6Eq5LdranGa6ru8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7DdMHaUz3f+Zf+XsRAjHxAJ0dROr97pSRXee+deEb/o8+ZVbnEQCdEtGJ pe73eyxVyk+xJPxruC5eP/8= =9P1i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --z6Eq5LdranGa6ru8-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 21: 0:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC6C37B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 21:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.179.174] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 1538m8-0008CB-00; Fri, 25 May 2001 00:00:32 -0400 Received: from daydream (mail@daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f4P3aYb03447; Thu, 24 May 2001 23:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1538Ov-0004WE-00; Thu, 24 May 2001 23:36:33 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:36:33 -0400 From: Shannon Hendrix To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010524233631.B13575@widomaker.com> References: <200105242235.PAA13693@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105242235.PAA13693@usr02.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:34:26PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:34:26PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > ] > 1. I don't think I've ever seen a Linux distro which has write > ] > caching enabled by default. Hell, DMA33 isn't even enabled > ] > by default ;) > ] > ] You are talking about controlling the IDE drive cache. > ] > ] The issue here is write cache in the filesystem code. > > No. The issue here is the write cache on the drive. > FreeBSD with soft updates will operate within 4% of the top memory > bandwidth; see the Ganger/Patt paper on the technology. I have a file, CSE-TR-254-95.ps, that I think is probably the paper you are talking about. The title is "Soft Updates: A Solution to the Metadata Update Problem in File Systems". The link on Ganger's page was dead, but I'm sure this is the one you mean. Nowhere do they support the idea that soft udpates can approach a system's memory bandwidth. What they did say was that in _one_ case, creating and then immediately deleting a directory entry, you are operating at processor/memory speeds. They said soft updates in that case were 6 times faster than the conventional system. That's not even close to the memory bandwidth of the 486 system they were using, so they had to mean the filesystem code in that test was able to run without waiting on I/O. In the more general cases, their findings were "more than a factor of two" compared to synchronous write ufs. I _wish_ my workstation was able to write metadata at nearly 1GB/s all the time... :) -- "Star Wars Moral Number 17: Teddy bears are dangerous in herds." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 21:21:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from info.iet.unipi.it (info.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BB3537B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 21:21:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@info.iet.unipi.it) Received: (from luigi@localhost) by info.iet.unipi.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA39544; Fri, 25 May 2001 06:17:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from luigi) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200105250417.GAA39544@info.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: FreeBSD/VAX anyone interested? In-Reply-To: <3B0DA85C.C08C952D@aurora.regenstrief.org> from Gunther Schadow at "May 25, 2001 00:33:32 am" To: Gunther Schadow Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 06:17:49 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, > > I got some VAXen 6420, big machines. Mine has 6 CPUs. I was planning > to boot myself with Ultrix, and then go on with NetBSD. Even you need heaters for the winter, right :) cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 21:24:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from areilly.bpc-users.org (CPE-144-132-234-126.nsw.bigpond.net.au [144.132.234.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F79237B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 21:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from areilly@bigpond.net.au) Received: (qmail 55337 invoked by uid 1000); 25 May 2001 04:24:34 -0000 From: "Andrew Reilly" Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:24:34 +1000 To: Greg Black Cc: "Andresen,Jason R." , void , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010525142434.A55317@gurney.reilly.home> References: <20010524082013.G88992-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from gjb@gbch.net on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 06:17:33AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 06:17:33AM +1000, Greg Black wrote: > the life of all users of the system simpler. There's no real > excuse for directories with millions (or even thousands) of > files. One of the things that I've always liked about Unix was that there aren't as many arbitrary limits on what you can do and how you can do it, as there are on other platforms. For example, I once used an Acorn Archimedes computer, which had an OS called RISC-OS. The "advanced disk filing system", ADFS, had some cute limits built in: no more than 10 characters in a file name, and no more than 70 (?memory fades) files in a directory. Nothing in Unix stops you from putting millions of files in a directory. There are (I mantain _obviously_) good reasons to want to do that. The only thing that stops you is that _some_ Unix platforms, using _some_ file systems, behave badly if you do that. They should be fixed. -- Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 21:32:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from maxim.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DE88A37B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 21:32:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb@gbch.net) Received: (qmail 99845 invoked by uid 1001); 25 May 2001 14:32:27 +1000 Message-ID: X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.19 02-May-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-Location: Brisbane, Australia; 27.49841S 152.98439E X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb.html X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-auug048.gif X-GPG-Fingerprint: EBB2 2A92 A79D 1533 AC00 3C46 5D83 B6FB 4B04 B7D6 X-PGP-Public-Keys: http://www.gbch.net/keys.html Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:32:26 +1000 From: Greg Black To: "Andrew Reilly" Cc: "Andresen,Jason R." , void , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <20010524082013.G88992-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> <20010525142434.A55317@gurney.reilly.home> In-reply-to: <20010525142434.A55317@gurney.reilly.home> of Fri, 25 May 2001 14:24:34 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Andrew Reilly" wrote: | On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 06:17:33AM +1000, Greg Black wrote: | > the life of all users of the system simpler. There's no real | > excuse for directories with millions (or even thousands) of | > files. | | [...] | | Nothing in Unix stops you from putting millions of files in a | directory. This is just not true. For the vast majority of the systems that have ever been called Unix, attempting to put millions of files into a directory would be an utter disaster. No ifs or buts. It might be nice if this were different, although I see no good reason to support it myself, but it's generally not a serious possibility and so applications that depend on being able to do that are plain stupid. Their authors are either too lazy to make their use of the file system a bit more sensible or too stupid to know that file systems are not databases. The right answer is to write applications with some understanding of the basics of software engineering or computer science. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 21:49: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from areilly.bpc-users.org (CPE-144-132-234-126.nsw.bigpond.net.au [144.132.234.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 08CAC37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 21:48:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andrew@areilly.bpc-users.org) Received: (qmail 55570 invoked from network); 25 May 2001 04:48:47 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO gurney.reilly.home) (andrew@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 25 May 2001 04:48:47 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:48:46 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Reilly Subject: Re: technical comparison To: gjb@gbch.net Cc: jandrese@mitre.org, float@firedrake.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20010525044848.08CAC37B422@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 25 May, Greg Black wrote: > This is just not true. For the vast majority of the systems > that have ever been called Unix, attempting to put millions of > files into a directory would be an utter disaster. No ifs or > buts. It might be nice if this were different, although I see > no good reason to support it myself, but it's generally not a > serious possibility and so applications that depend on being > able to do that are plain stupid. Their authors are either too > lazy to make their use of the file system a bit more sensible or > too stupid to know that file systems are not databases. The > right answer is to write applications with some understanding of > the basics of software engineering or computer science. It's got nothing to do with the basics of software engineering or computer science. It's got to do with interface definitions and APIs. Where in open(1) does it specify a limit on the number of files permissible in a directory? The closest that it comes, that I can see is: [ENOSPC] O_CREAT is specified, the file does not exist, and the directory in which the entry for the new file is being placed cannot be extended because there is no space left on the file system containing the directory. [ENOSPC] O_CREAT is specified, the file does not exist, and there are no free inodes on the file system on which the file is being created. [EDQUOT] O_CREAT is specified, the file does not exist, and the directory in which the entry for the new file is being placed cannot be extended because the user's quota of disk blocks on the file system containing the direc- tory has been exhausted. [EDQUOT] O_CREAT is specified, the file does not exist, and the user's quota of inodes on the file system on which the file is being created has been exhausted. or perhaps: [ENAMETOOLONG] A component of a pathname exceeded 255 characters, or an entire path name exceeded 1023 characters. All of which quite clearly indicate that if one wants to put all of ones allocation of blocks or inodes into a single directory, then one can, as long as the name and path length limits are observed. See: there's a system defined limit, and it's documented as such. That's what I was getting at. You're welcome to claim a documentation bug, and add the appropriate caveat. It seems clear to me that Hans Reiser (and Silicon Graphics before him) have taken the more obvious approach, of attempting to remove the performance limitation inherent in the existing implementation. You can moan about tree-structured vs relational databases, but if your problem space doesn't intrinsically map to a tree, then it doesn't stop the tree-structring transformation that Terry mentioned from being a gratuitious hack to work around a performance problem with the existing implementation. -- Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 22: 9:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from maxim.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5017C37B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 22:09:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb@gbch.net) Received: (qmail 969 invoked by uid 1001); 25 May 2001 15:09:24 +1000 Message-ID: X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.19 02-May-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-Location: Brisbane, Australia; 27.49841S 152.98439E X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb.html X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-auug048.gif X-GPG-Fingerprint: EBB2 2A92 A79D 1533 AC00 3C46 5D83 B6FB 4B04 B7D6 X-PGP-Public-Keys: http://www.gbch.net/keys.html Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:09:24 +1000 From: Greg Black To: Andrew Reilly Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Reilly wrote: | You can moan about tree-structured vs relational databases, [...] I can moan about whatever I please -- for instance the fact that you can't be bothered using a mailer that conforms with basic rules. Please figure out how to get a Message-Id header into your mail and make sure that future messages go out with such a header. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 22:16: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0718237B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 22:16:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4P5Cr837202; Thu, 24 May 2001 22:12:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: gjb@gbch.net Cc: areilly@bigpond.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010524221253J.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:12:53 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 7 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Erm, folks? Can anyone please tell me what this has to do with freebsd-hackers any longer? It's been quite a long thread already - have a heart please and take it to -chat. :( Thanks, - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 22:47: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rgmail.regenstrief.org (rgmail.regenstrief.org [134.68.31.197]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8BF237B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 22:46:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org) Received: from aurora.regenstrief.org (aurora.rg.iupui.edu [134.68.31.122]) by rgmail.regenstrief.org (8.11.0/8.8.7) with ESMTP id f4P5ngX09535; Fri, 25 May 2001 00:49:42 -0500 Message-ID: <3B0DF1CE.44777480@aurora.regenstrief.org> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 05:46:54 +0000 From: Gunther Schadow Organization: Regenstrief Institute for Health Care X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD/VAX anyone interested? References: <200105250417.GAA39544@info.iet.unipi.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I got some VAXen 6420, big machines. Mine has 6 CPUs. I was planning > > to boot myself with Ultrix, and then go on with NetBSD. Even > > you need heaters for the winter, right :) the 6000s are not that bad. About 600W depending on features. The 11/780, 8000, and 9000 are real power hogs. The 9000 was supposed to be water cooled ("Aquarius") but that didn't work. Anyhow, even with the 6000 I'm still fighting with the power supply though trying to satisfy it with 110 V two phase instead of 208 V 3 phase. cheers -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistent Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 23:20:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n37.san.rr.com (dt051n37.san.rr.com [204.210.32.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 325F437B423 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 23:20:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@DougBarton.net) Received: from DougBarton.net (master [10.0.0.2]) by dt051n37.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21046; Thu, 24 May 2001 23:19:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@DougBarton.net) Message-ID: <3B0DF980.EDA844F7@DougBarton.net> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:19:44 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ed Hudson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE References: <200105250025.f4P0Pu905553@m44.spnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ed Hudson wrote: > > fyi, here's another hw.ata.wc=1 vs hw.ata.wc=0 comparison: > > 4.3-RELEASE install, ASUS A7V, 800mhz, hw.ata.wc=0, express install +all, > 60gig wd-600b udma100 drive, partitioned as: > > / 8192m > swap 1024m > /xtra 48023m > > installed from 52x cdrom. > install time: 27minutes, 38 seconds (1658 seconds). > > a modified 4.3-RELEASE install iso (modified by replacing /floppies/boot.flp > loader.rc/support.4th and adding a loader.conf, setting hw.ata.wc=1) file, > written to cd. > > same partition, same install (express + all) > > install time: 8minutes, 59 seconds ( 539 seconds) > > 4.3-with-wc=1 / 4.3-with-wc=0 : 3.07x > > in both installation cases both filesystems were newfs'd, but the > speed difference is evident everywhere during the install. > > i would urge the FreeBSD lords to consider mr. silbersack's proposal > of either remaking hw.ata.wc=1 the default, The current mood (which I agree with) is to make softupdates the default after installation. The problem with the combo of write caching and softupdates is that if the power actually goes off the meta-data writes that softupdates postpones and are further postponed by the write cache will never happen, therefore leaving the file system in a potentially unrecoverable state. > or at least, consider making this the default for the base install. This would work for situations where it's being installed to a clean disk, but might be trouble when installing over an existing installation. The problem (as I understand it) is that the write cache option can only be enabled at boot time. If I'm wrong about this, it'd be a good thing to enable if we're sure we're newfs'ing the partitions we're installing to. Doug -- I need someone really bad. Are you really bad? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 23:20:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from segfault.kiev.ua (segfault.kiev.ua [193.193.193.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A1837B624; Thu, 24 May 2001 23:20:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netch@iv.nn.kiev.ua) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by segfault.kiev.ua (8) with UUCP id JHQ07618; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:19:53 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch@iv.nn.kiev.ua) Received: (from netch@localhost) by iv.nn.kiev.ua (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4P6JcI01773; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:19:38 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:19:37 +0300 From: Valentin Nechayev To: Barry Lustig Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Boot time memory issue Message-ID: <20010525091937.B774@iv.nn.kiev.ua> References: <3B0858F9.1E483EEE@lustig.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3B0858F9.1E483EEE@lustig.com>; from barry@lustig.com on Sun, May 20, 2001 at 07:53:29PM -0400 X-42: On Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sun, May 20, 2001 at 19:53:29, barry (Barry Lustig) wrote about "Boot time memory issue": Do verbose boot (`boot -v') with large SC_HISTORY_SIZE (1000 at least, 2000 at most), and after boot check for "SMAP ..." lines at the very beginning of the kernel boot log at /dev/console. (They are not written to log viewable with dmesg.) Another way is to use serial console. With this SMAP lines one can say more concrete diagnosis. > I was curious whether the memory limitation on the Sony VAIO Z505 > machines was an actual hardware limitation or a marketing issue. I just > tried adding a 256MB module to my machine. The BIOS seemed to mostly > recognize it. > It did see 320MB of RAM, but had problems when testing all of it. > Current (from > a couple of weeks ago) boots, but gives me: > Too many holes in the physical address space, giving up > > and comes up showing 64MB of RAM. Is this something that can be worked > around, or have I run up against an actual hardware limit on the > machine? /netch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 23:38:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hokkshideh.jetcafe.org (hokkshideh.jetcafe.org [205.147.43.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71EFB37B424 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 23:38:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dave@jetcafe.org) Received: from hokkshideh.jetcafe.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hokkshideh.jetcafe.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06408 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 23:38:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200105250638.XAA06408@hokkshideh.jetcafe.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with version: MH 6.8.4 #1[UCI] To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Benchmarking FreeBSD (was Re: technical comparison) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:38:26 -0700 From: Dave Hayes Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan Hubbard writes: > Erm, folks? Can anyone please tell me what this has to do with > freebsd-hackers any longer? While the thread has diverged from it's original intent, there is something related I consider to be a more interesting topic. If it's still not appropriate for hackers, please let me know. When people are doing benchmarks, I noted that there are -lots- of little sysctl tweaks or kernel tweaks that tend to make a big difference in the results. I know it is possible to define some sort of abstraction that uniquely specifies a complete (and/or relevant) set of these tweaks when comparing benchmarks. Does this already exist, and if not, how hard would it be to catalog every single relavent tunable parameter in a FreeBSD system? ------ Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org >>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<< "War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left." -Confucious To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 24 23:55: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (whale.sunbay.crimea.ua [212.110.138.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4252037B422 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 23:54:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ru@whale.sunbay.crimea.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by whale.sunbay.crimea.ua (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f4P6sDX32989; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:54:13 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from ru) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:54:13 +0300 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Matt Dillon Cc: Lyndon Nerenberg , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: AF_UNIX for inetd Message-ID: <20010525095413.F31416@sunbay.com> Mail-Followup-To: Matt Dillon , Lyndon Nerenberg , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200105242039.f4OKdnt02359@orthanc.ab.ca> <200105242101.f4OL1uN31979@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105242101.f4OL1uN31979@earth.backplane.com>; from dillon@earth.backplane.com on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 02:01:56PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 02:01:56PM -0700, Matt Dillon wrote: > > :I've put up my AF_UNIX patches for inetd at: > : > : ftp://orthanc.ab.ca/lyndon/freebsd/inetd.AF_UNIX.patch > : > :The indentation is really gross. I did most of the edits with emacs > :using its default C style. I didn't want to run the source through > :indent in case the whitespace diffs obscured the real bits. > : > :--lyndon > > Hmm. Looks fairly straight forward. I can fix up the indentation. > > How about I commit it to -current on friday or saturay, after I MFC > the telnet patch to -stable (so I don't have too many balls in the air > at once. I'm also dealing with the O_DIRECT stuff this week). > > -Matt > Just a note: we have a maintainer on inetd. -- Ruslan Ermilov Oracle Developer/DBA, ru@sunbay.com Sunbay Software AG, ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer, +380.652.512.251 Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 1:47:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BD08E37B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 01:47:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 25 May 2001 09:47:48 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:47:47 +0100 From: David Malone To: John Cc: Hackers List Subject: Re: sys/uio.h UIO_MAXIOV hidden inside _KERNEL Message-ID: <20010525094747.A74059@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <20010524223613.A23038@bsdwins.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010524223613.A23038@bsdwins.com>; from jwd@bsdwins.com on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:36:13PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 10:36:13PM -0400, John wrote: > Can someone provide some insight as to why UIO_MAXIOV > is hidden inside _KERNEL? According to SUSv2 the corect #define to use here is IOV_MAX, which unfortunately we don't seem to define anywhere. Steven's Unix programming book says: 4.3BSD and SVR4 limit iovcnt to 16. 4.3+BSD defines the constant UIO_MAXIOV, which is currently 1024. The SVID claims the constant IOV_MAX provides the same Syetem V limit, but it's not defined in any of the SVR4 headers. Maybe Garrett or Bruce could comment further on what the correct way for us to define this is. David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 2:46: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from malmo.trab.se (malmo.trab.se [131.115.48.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D2A37B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 02:45:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Urban.E.Olsson@telia.se) Received: from trab-hermes.haninge.trab.se (trab-hermes.haninge.trab.se [131.115.158.15]) by malmo.trab.se (8.10.1/TRAB-primary-2) with ESMTP id f4P9jsI22327; Fri, 25 May 2001 11:45:55 +0200 (MEST) Received: by trab-hermes.haninge.trab.se with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 25 May 2001 11:45:54 +0200 Message-ID: <778DFE9B4E3BD111A74E08002BA3DC0D03DA5228@trab-hermes.haninge.trab.se> From: Urban Olsson To: Gunther Schadow , Urban Olsson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: modified FreeBSD gateway Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:45:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thank you for the answers. I will check out the NATd code and start there. The code I will be writing is so similar to NAT so I can probably use this code with minor changes. << Urban > -----Original Message----- > From: Gunther Schadow [mailto:gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org] > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:11 AM > To: Urban Olsson > Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: modified FreeBSD gateway > > > Urban Olsson wrote: > > ... > > is a little bit like a NAT but I want to be able to do it > differently and on > > my own terms. I guess that this means that I would be > forced to rewrite the > > gateway source-code so it behaves as I want it to. So the > problem now is > > Hmm, certainly you can use the divert(4) with ipfw. But I wonder > what you are trying to do? There are so many things that you can > do just using the right tool that already exists without writing > from scratch. Would you mind telling us what you want to accomplish? > > regards > -Gunther > > -- > Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. > gschadow@regenstrief.org > Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for > Health Care > Adjunct Assistent Professor Indiana University School > of Medicine > tel:1(317)630-7960 > http://aurora.regenstrief.org > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 6:19:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [194.222.196.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1A7937B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 06:19:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4PDJBY24557; Fri, 25 May 2001 14:19:11 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4PDJ9g04298; Fri, 25 May 2001 14:19:09 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200105251319.f4PDJ9g04298@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Matt Dillon Cc: James Howard , Alfred Perlstein , Lyndon Nerenberg , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] In-Reply-To: Message from Matt Dillon of "Wed, 23 May 2001 17:16:18 PDT." <200105240016.f4O0GI318985@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:19:09 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > : > :On Wed, 23 May 2001, Matt Dillon wrote: > : > :> Nice one! I'm going to be using this all over the place myself. > : > :I am missing something here. Is there a practical use for this? :) > : > :Jamie > > Many programs these days use unix-domain sockets as a rendezvous > for IPC between processes. Being able to connect to such sockets > for monitoring, debugging, development, etc... can be very useful. pppctl(8) does this too. > -Matt -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 7: 0:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2BDD37B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 07:00:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 153I8Q-000ESR-00; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:00:11 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f4PE09919799; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:00:09 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:00:09 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: removing inb()/outb() from devices Message-ID: <20010525150009.A19674@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <200105250206.f4P26wl39972@billy-club.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200105250206.f4P26wl39972@billy-club.village.org>; from imp@village.org on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 08:06:58PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 08:06:58PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: | In message <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> j mckitrick writes: | : I'd like to finalize the newbus work by changing inb()/outb() calls to | : bus_space_write calls. Is there a device where this has been partially done | : already? I'd like to see the old and new styles, then i would fix the | : vpo/imm zip driver first, since i know that code well. After that, i could | : start working my way through the tree. | | Look at what I just did to the pcic_isa.c and pcic.c drivers wrt to | converting from using inb/outb to using bus_space routines. Okay, here's what i will do, then. I will just port all the macros to bus_space calls, and add bus_space_handle and tag to the softc struct for ppc. There are still a lot of direct inb/outb calls, as well as the multi-byte transfer versions. I will try to get those as well. jcm -- "I drank WHAT ?!" - Socrates To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 8:40:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F17FF37B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 08:40:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 153Jhb-000I2r-00; Fri, 25 May 2001 16:40:35 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f4PFeY121679; Fri, 25 May 2001 16:40:34 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:40:34 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: removing inb()/outb() from devices Message-ID: <20010525164033.A21603@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <200105250206.f4P26wl39972@billy-club.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200105250206.f4P26wl39972@billy-club.village.org>; from imp@village.org on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 08:06:58PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG One more question: In the probe routines, the values of the hardware ports are changing from one chipset to the next. Throughout the ppc driver, the regular macros are used to access the parallel port control registers, but in the probe routine it reverts to inb/outb, probably because it makes no sense to allocate a port for 2 or three operations, then deallocate it and choose another one. So, should the inb/outb calls in the probe functions be left alone? This is specifically for the ppc driver, where several possible chipsets must be addressed by one driver. jcm -- "I drank WHAT ?!" - Socrates To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 8:56:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C42137B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 08:56:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (billy-club.village.org [10.0.0.3]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4PFuX670399; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:56:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by billy-club.village.org (8.11.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id f4PFujl42699; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:56:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200105251556.f4PFujl42699@billy-club.village.org> To: j mckitrick Subject: Re: removing inb()/outb() from devices Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 May 2001 16:40:34 BST." <20010525164033.A21603@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010525164033.A21603@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <200105250206.f4P26wl39972@billy-club.village.org> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:56:45 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010525164033.A21603@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> j mckitrick writes: : In the probe routines, the values of the hardware ports are changing from : one chipset to the next. Throughout the ppc driver, the regular macros are : used to access the parallel port control registers, but in the probe routine : it reverts to inb/outb, probably because it makes no sense to allocate a : port for 2 or three operations, then deallocate it and choose another one. Yes, but it does make sense to do that. Some busses you cannot access the resources until they have been activated. pcmcia comes to mind :-). Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 9: 6:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B796937B42C for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:06:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 153K6y-000Iqk-00; Fri, 25 May 2001 17:06:48 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f4PG6mi22262; Fri, 25 May 2001 17:06:48 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:06:47 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: removing inb()/outb() from devices Message-ID: <20010525170647.B21603@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010525164033.A21603@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <200105250206.f4P26wl39972@billy-club.village.org> <20010525164033.A21603@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <200105251556.f4PFujl42699@billy-club.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200105251556.f4PFujl42699@billy-club.village.org>; from imp@village.org on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 09:56:45AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG | Yes, but it does make sense to do that. Some busses you cannot access | the resources until they have been activated. pcmcia comes to mind :-). ah, but of course. :-) Well, then, let me know if my plan is acceptable: I will newbussify all macros, and any inb/outb calls i find that are not inside a probe function. How is that? jcm -- "I drank WHAT ?!" - Socrates To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 9: 7:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [208.42.49.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7417437B423 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:07:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: by gw.nectar.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E77D218C98; Fri, 25 May 2001 11:07:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:07:23 -0500 From: "Jacques A. Vidrine" To: Lyndon Nerenberg Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] Message-ID: <20010525110723.C9939@spawn.nectar.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" , Lyndon Nerenberg , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010524132144.A14177@shade.nectar.com> <200105241856.f4OIuSt00994@orthanc.ab.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105241856.f4OIuSt00994@orthanc.ab.ca>; from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 12:56:28PM -0600 X-Url: http://www.nectar.com/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 12:56:28PM -0600, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > As a more general solution I have an inetd that groks AF_UNIX. You > would have to add chroot/jail support to it, though, and some would > argue that that's making inetd a bit featureful. I dunno. Somehow it makes more sense to me than adding AF_UNIX support to telnet. -- Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / jvidrine@verio.net / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 9:12:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995DB37B42C for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:12:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (billy-club.village.org [10.0.0.3]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4PGCT670507; Fri, 25 May 2001 10:12:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@billy-club.village.org) Received: from billy-club.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by billy-club.village.org (8.11.2/8.8.3) with ESMTP id f4PGCfl42832; Fri, 25 May 2001 10:12:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200105251612.f4PGCfl42832@billy-club.village.org> To: j mckitrick Subject: Re: removing inb()/outb() from devices Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 May 2001 17:06:47 BST." <20010525170647.B21603@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010525170647.B21603@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010525164033.A21603@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010523171539.A43898@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <200105250206.f4P26wl39972@billy-club.village.org> <20010525164033.A21603@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <200105251556.f4PFujl42699@billy-club.village.org> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:12:41 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010525170647.B21603@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> j mckitrick writes: : I will newbussify all macros, and any inb/outb calls i find that are not : inside a probe function. : : How is that? Ummm, including inb/outb that are in the probe would be better. This would allow us to write a pcmcia attachment to the ppc driver. I have a pcmcia <-> parallel card knocking around somewhere I think. I also have sevearl universal pcmcia port replicators that I'd like to support as well. They are all basically a super I/O chip with pcmcia glue around it. This will likely require a puc-like driver (qv NetBSD's puc driver) so we can attach the children and manage their resources properly. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 9:14:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [208.42.49.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7846637B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:14:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: by gw.nectar.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 14E8618C98; Fri, 25 May 2001 11:14:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:14:28 -0500 From: "Jacques A. Vidrine" To: Matt Dillon Cc: Gordon Tetlow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: telnet to AF_UNIX sockets [PATCH] Message-ID: <20010525111428.D9939@spawn.nectar.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" , Matt Dillon , Gordon Tetlow , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010523220844.A26487@shade.nectar.com> <20010524132144.A14177@shade.nectar.com> <200105242024.f4OKO3530561@earth.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105242024.f4OKO3530561@earth.backplane.com>; from dillon@earth.backplane.com on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 01:24:03PM -0700 X-Url: http://www.nectar.com/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 01:24:03PM -0700, Matt Dillon wrote: > > :Because `all telnet really does is connect to sockets' is patently > :false. Check out the nearly 100 RFCs detailing the TELNET protocol. > :Almost none of these make much sense to do over UNIX domain sockets > :[1]. > > Huh? Oh yah, *that* protocol. Telnet only does that if the server > is a telnetd. Otherwise it's just straight character I/O. What I am saying is that we really should have a separate app to do `just straight character I/O' over whatever medium. There are already several in the ports tree. > Any > experienced sysad knows this from telneting to the web server or > smtp server or pop server, etc etc etc. Being able to telnet to a unix > domain socket is no different. I don't often use telnet for this. Rather, I use netcat. I do recognize that other folks do this. In practice, no harm comes of it. In principal, I think it is silly to try to talk TELNET with something that you know shouldn't be talking TELNET. > Unix domain sockets are a good test of experience. They are obscure > enough that many people don't even realize they exist (and even fewer > know that you can pass file descriptors over them). But unix-domain > sockets are extremely useful in all manner of applications and the > more sophisticated programmers use them all over the place. Being able > to telnet to one is natural. Over the years I've probably > written the 'connect to unix domain socket' program 50 times because > it wasn't standard in a system. Now it is. Yahhh. I agree with the sentiment here. I just don't agree with sticking it in telnet. Perhaps paradoxically, I wouldn't mind so much if inetd + telnetd were updated to support PF_UNIX, too. Then, at least, there would be something to talk NVT to over PF_UNIX :-) But as the original submittor said, this thread is getting silly. I merely wanted to note my objection, not argue about it. I should have also noted that I would have liked /some/ discussion of this on freebsd-net before it was committed, but hey, it's -CURRENT. Cheers, -- Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / jvidrine@verio.net / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 10: 1:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF28F37B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 10:01:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.185.144] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 153Kxl-000G09-00; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:01:22 -0400 Received: from daydream (mail@daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f4PGdBb09877; Fri, 25 May 2001 12:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 153KcJ-0007ES-00; Fri, 25 May 2001 12:39:11 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:39:11 -0400 From: Shannon Hendrix To: Doug Barton Cc: Ed Hudson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE Message-ID: <20010525123906.B26445@widomaker.com> References: <200105250025.f4P0Pu905553@m44.spnet.com> <3B0DF980.EDA844F7@DougBarton.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B0DF980.EDA844F7@DougBarton.net>; from DougB@DougBarton.net on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:19:44PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:19:44PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > The current mood (which I agree with) is to make softupdates the default > after installation. The problem with the combo of write caching and > softupdates is that if the power actually goes off the meta-data writes > that softupdates postpones and are further postponed by the write cache > will never happen, therefore leaving the file system in a potentially > unrecoverable state. If drives could be counted on to have a synchronous write command, and the driver interface let you send a flag (cache/no-cache) with each write, would that be acceptable? In the XFS miling list at SGI, some were saying that that is what they wanted for metadata and log writes. -- "Whatever..." -- Kenny Gatdula To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 10:10:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.14.173.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFACE37B423 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 10:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 59011 invoked by uid 1000); 25 May 2001 17:10:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 25 May 2001 17:10:49 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:10:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Doug Barton Cc: Ed Hudson , Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <3B0DF980.EDA844F7@DougBarton.net> Message-ID: <20010525120231.L58983-100000@achilles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 May 2001, Doug Barton wrote: > The current mood (which I agree with) is to make softupdates the default > after installation. The problem with the combo of write caching and > softupdates is that if the power actually goes off the meta-data writes > that softupdates postpones and are further postponed by the write cache > will never happen, therefore leaving the file system in a potentially > unrecoverable state. That mood is nice in theory, but doesn't seem to fit practice. My boxes are on UPSes, and I have trouble remembering the last time the power went out. On the other hand, I can clearly remember the last panic on my -current box which required a manual fsck to repair (yesterday). And yes, write caching was disabled on the box at the time. It seems to me that we're assuming hardware write caching is some evil villan which will steal our data without any evidence. At the same time, we're putting blind trust in filesystems to always DTRT. And stuck in the middle is a growing number of people who are seeing a noticeable slowdown with 4.3, and will start telling their friends that FreeBSD is slow. Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 10:18:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aaz.links.ru (aaz.links.ru [193.125.152.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C375737B423 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 10:18:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babolo@links.ru) Received: (from babolo@localhost) by aaz.links.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA06296; Fri, 25 May 2001 21:18:06 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <200105251718.VAA06296@aaz.links.ru> Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: from "Greg Black" at "May 25, 1 06:17:33 am" To: gjb@gbch.net (Greg Black) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 21:18:05 +0400 (MSD) Cc: jandrese@mitre.org, float@firedrake.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: .@babolo.ru MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Black writes: > "Andresen,Jason R." wrote: > > | On Thu, 24 May 2001, void wrote: > | > | > On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:20:51AM -0400, Andresen,Jason R. wrote: > | > > > | > > Why is knowing the file names cheating? It is almost certain > | > > that the application will know the names of it's own files > | > > (and won't be grepping the entire directory every time it > | > > needs to find a file). > | > > | > With 60,000 files, that would have the application duplicating > | > 60,000 pieces of information that are stored by the operating system. > | > Operations like open() and unlink() still have to search the directory > | > to get the inode, so there isn't much incentive for an application to > | > do that, I think. > | > | This still doesn't make sense to me. It's not like the program is going > | to want to do a "find" on the directory every time it has some data it > | wants to put somewhere. I think for the majority of the cases (I'm sure > | there are exceptions) an application program that wants to interact with > | files will know what filename it wants ahead of time. This doesn't > | necessarily mean storing 60,000 filenames either, it could be something > | like: > | I have files fooX where X is a number from 00000 to 60000 in that > | directory. I need to find a piece of information, so I run that > | information through a hash of some sort and determine that the file I want > | is number 23429, so I open that file. > > And if this imaginary program is going to do that, it's equally > easy to use a multilevel directory structure and that will make > the life of all users of the system simpler. There's no real > excuse for directories with millions (or even thousands) of > files. There is. You assume that names are random. Assume that they are not. VERY old example: a aa ... aaaaaaa...aaa 255 times aaaaaaa...aab so on. Yes, I know: hash. Is it practical to this in every application (sometimes it is unknown before practical use if directories become big) instead in one file system? Sorry for a bad English. -- @BABOLO http://links.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 11:20:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from host213-123-133-64.btopenworld.com (host213-123-133-64.btopenworld.com [213.123.133.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C30337B42C; Fri, 25 May 2001 11:20:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dominic@host213-123-133-64.btopenworld.com) Received: (from dominic@localhost) by host213-123-133-64.btopenworld.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4PIK6L40763; Fri, 25 May 2001 19:20:06 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dominic) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:20:01 +0100 From: Dominic Marks To: Mike Silbersack Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE Message-ID: <20010525192001.A351@apollo> References: <3B0DF980.EDA844F7@DougBarton.net> <20010525120231.L58983-100000@achilles.silby.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010525120231.L58983-100000@achilles.silby.com>; from silby@silby.com on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:10:49PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:10:49PM -0500, Mike Silbersack wrote: >=20 > On Thu, 24 May 2001, Doug Barton wrote: >=20 > And stuck in the middle is a growing number of people who are seeing a > noticeable slowdown with 4.3, and will start telling their friends that > FreeBSD is slow. >=20 > Mike "Silby" Silbersack I'd be slightly more concerned about the safety out of the data from a clean installation. In my opinion its more important to be safe out of the box and leave performance and optimization as a task for a sysadmin that has enough clue to do such things. I don't mean to say that performance is not an issue or not important, this is of course incorrect. Safe by default with speed available to those who care to find out how. I think that the alternative is some what irresponsible. Its not as if 4.3 is actually slower when properly setup, its the same reasoning as not using async mounts on hard discs by default. Just my thoughts, Have a nice day. [ I've cc'ed -chat in the hope of moving the conversation onto that list as requested. If anyone responds please drop -hackers. Thanks ] --=20 Dominic Marks --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7DqJQ5FwHMNbbKFkRAqgdAJsFuZCX1k+Ftm8bot4eV9Sb0fs54ACfQNUk FS+p2WzR/EcDbBlJFuNp39A= =NyXg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7JfCtLOvnd9MIVvH-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 11:29:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp10.phx.gblx.net (smtp10.phx.gblx.net [64.211.219.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6AF37B423 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 11:29:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp10.phx.gblx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA54944 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 11:29:32 -0700 Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp10.phx.gblx.net, id smtpdn3EKMa; Fri May 25 11:29:24 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11814 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 May 2001 11:35:29 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200105251835.LAA11814@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: panics with 4GB on an IBM xSeries 330 To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:35:29 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ] We have a 4GB IBM xSeries 330 (1GHz PIII) and I can't get 4.3-RELEASE to ] boot on it. I did set NKPT to 64 as suggested by DG about a week ago on ] this list (this is also the reason I take this to -hackers rather than ] -questions). Still, I get ] panic: swap_pager_swap_init: swap_zone=NULL ] when booting (both the modified kernel and GENERIC behave the same). An ] identical machine with 1GB works like a champ. Anything else other than ] NKPT I should set? Personally, I think NKPT is a red herring. I am running several 4G machines with the default of 32, and have not had problems (any problems will be automatically fixed for you by grow_kernel()). You aren't changing the KVA space tuning, are you? There are some really magic off-by-one numbers in the bowels of the VM startup on x86 processors. By default, the kernel is mapped into a 4G page as part of the startup; I have notices on some SMP borads (notably, Tyan Tiger LE's with v1.4 and 1.5 AMI BIOS) that the use of 4G pages will survive what is supposed to be a TLB shootdown. This was especially problematic with two or more processors in the box. In theory, you could fix this by reloading CR3, but the kernel also sets the PG_G (global) bit on the 4M page, so it's a bit of a problem (invltlb doesn't work right, IMO; under SMP, it uses a rendesvous, which seems to me to have a race condition). The easiest thing to do is to: options DISABLE_PSE Which may help you out of your current mess. If not, set "kern.maxfiles=120000" at the boot prompt, and if it works for you, add it to the loader.conf. This really sucks, because it eats memory for sockets, TCP connections, UDP connections, etc., all proportional to the maxfiles... Other than that... good luck. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 11:52:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from luke.immure.com (luke.immure.com [207.8.42.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC20037B423 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 11:52:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.immure.com (8.11.2/8.11.3) id f4PIqL414939 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:52:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:52:21 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: hackers list Subject: useloopback variable Message-ID: <20010525135221.F1804@luke.immure.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am working on a network device driver that is currently forced to talk to it'self (RX/TX cables are looped back into it) and I am trying to get the system to not use the loopback interface but send the packets to my driver. I have cleared the net.link.ether.inet.useloopback sysctl variable but the packets still never get to my driver. Is there something else that I must do? Note that although my driver is not for ethernet (it's for a GSN adapter), I use nearly all of the ethernet code in the kernel, so I am guessing that this sysctl variable would apply to my case. My system is 4.2-stable as of about Jan 10th Thanks, Bob -- Bob Willcox Egotist, n.: bob@vieo.com A person of low taste, more interested in himself than me. Austin, TX -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 12:51: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEACE37B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 12:51:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4PJp1b42293; Fri, 25 May 2001 12:51:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:51:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105251951.f4PJp1b42293@earth.backplane.com> To: Dave Hayes Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Benchmarking FreeBSD (was Re: technical comparison) References: <200105250638.XAA06408@hokkshideh.jetcafe.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Jordan Hubbard writes: :> Erm, folks? Can anyone please tell me what this has to do with :> freebsd-hackers any longer? : :While the thread has diverged from it's original intent, there is :something related I consider to be a more interesting topic. If it's :still not appropriate for hackers, please let me know. : :When people are doing benchmarks, I noted that there are -lots- of :little sysctl tweaks or kernel tweaks that tend to make a big :difference in the results. : :I know it is possible to define some sort of abstraction that uniquely :specifies a complete (and/or relevant) set of these tweaks when :comparing benchmarks. Does this already exist, and if not, how hard :would it be to catalog every single relavent tunable parameter in a :FreeBSD system? :------ :Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org :>>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<< Well, it's been done before. The problem is that the landscape changes every time we do a new release. I did a 'security' man page a while ago (which is still mostly relevant). I suppose I could do a 'performance' man page. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 12:57:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (diskworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4DAED37B424 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 12:57:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 77269 invoked by uid 1000); 25 May 2001 19:56:43 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:56:42 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: Brent Verner Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gcc (cpp) include search path problem Message-ID: <20010525225642.D18002@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Brent Verner , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010524055537.A8563@rcfile.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010524055537.A8563@rcfile.org>; from brent@rcfile.org on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 05:55:38AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 05:55:38AM -0400, Brent Verner wrote: > Hi, > > I'm not sure if this has been the default for gcc/cpp on FBSD > for a while but I noticed it since some ports failed to build > due to includes (present in /usr/local/include) not being found. > Has this changed, or is that port (wget) just broken. gcc does not have /usr/local/include in its include path by default. Did you pick wget as a random example, or is it really broken for you? If it is broken, you should probably update your ports collection, and make sure that you do not have any CPPFLAGS defined in your make environment: ports/ftp/wget/Makefile has included -I${PREFIX}/include in its environment ever since rev. 1.17 from August 2, 1999: http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/ftp/wget/Makefile On second thoughts, you might have a problem if you are trying to install the wget port in a location other than /usr/local. If you change PREFIX, then the -I{PREFIX}/include directive would point to the location you want to install wget at, not at /usr/local. In that case, the proper course of action would be to first install the devel/gettext port into the same location (using the same value of PREFIX); then, its include files would be in ${PREFIX}/include, its libraries would be in ${PREFIX}/lib, and wget would build just fine. G'luck, Peter -- I had to translate this sentence into English because I could not read the original Sanskrit. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 13: 6:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gw.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [208.42.49.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E77E37B423; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:06:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from shade.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [208.42.49.153]) by gw.nectar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CA7618C9B; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:06:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from nectar@localhost) by shade.nectar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4PK5Jg35402; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:05:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from nectar) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:04:04 -0500 From: "Jacques A. Vidrine" To: Peter Pentchev Cc: Brent Verner , ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: gcc (cpp) include search path problem Message-ID: <20010525150404.A35371@shade.nectar.com> Reply-To: ports@freebsd.org References: <20010524055537.A8563@rcfile.org> <20010525225642.D18002@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010525225642.D18002@ringworld.oblivion.bg>; from roam@orbitel.bg on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 10:56:42PM +0300 X-Url: http://www.nectar.com/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [This is most likely a ports issue, so kicked to -ports] On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 10:56:42PM +0300, Peter Pentchev wrote: > On second thoughts, you might have a problem if you are trying to > install the wget port in a location other than /usr/local. > If you change PREFIX, then the -I{PREFIX}/include directive would > point to the location you want to install wget at, not at /usr/local. > In that case, the proper course of action would be to first install > the devel/gettext port into the same location (using the same value > of PREFIX); then, its include files would be in ${PREFIX}/include, > its libraries would be in ${PREFIX}/lib, and wget would build just fine. No, this is not really correct. When ports are looking for other installed ports, they should use ${LOCALBASE} or ${X11BASE} as appropriate, not ${PREFIX}. In other words, the wget port should probably specify -I${LOCALBASE}/include instead of/in addition to -I${PREFIX}/include. Cheers, -- Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / jvidrine@verio.net / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 13: 6:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n37.san.rr.com (dt051n37.san.rr.com [204.210.32.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61E0837B43C for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:06:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@DougBarton.net) Received: from DougBarton.net (master [10.0.0.2]) by dt051n37.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29615; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:06:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@DougBarton.net) Message-ID: <3B0EBB35.2468C293@DougBarton.net> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:06:13 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Silbersack Cc: Ed Hudson , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE References: <20010525120231.L58983-100000@achilles.silby.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Silbersack wrote: > > On Thu, 24 May 2001, Doug Barton wrote: > > > The current mood (which I agree with) is to make softupdates the default > > after installation. The problem with the combo of write caching and > > softupdates is that if the power actually goes off the meta-data writes > > that softupdates postpones and are further postponed by the write cache > > will never happen, therefore leaving the file system in a potentially > > unrecoverable state. > > That mood is nice in theory, but doesn't seem to fit practice. My boxes > are on UPSes, and I have trouble remembering the last time the power went > out. If you are confident that write cacheing is safe for you, it's still there for you to enable. I'm talking about the defaults, which we always try to balance between speed and safety; but more on the side of safety. > On the other hand, I can clearly remember the last panic > on my -current box which required a manual fsck to repair (yesterday). > And yes, write caching was disabled on the box at the time. It seems to > me that we're assuming hardware write caching is some evil villan which > will steal our data without any evidence. At the same time, we're putting > blind trust in filesystems to always DTRT. No one is making that assumption. It has been discussed at great length (I believe on -current) and Kirk has agreed that the combo of softupdates + write cacheing is very dangerous and should be avoided as a default. Users like you with more advanced knowledge of how things work are free to do as they see fit. > And stuck in the middle is a growing number of people who are seeing a > noticeable slowdown with 4.3, and will start telling their friends that > FreeBSD is slow. I would _much_ rather they say it's slow then say it ate their data. -- I need someone really bad. Are you really bad? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 13:25:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web13404.mail.yahoo.com (web13404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CCFB537B423 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:25:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sandejain@rocketmail.com) Message-ID: <20010525202508.25381.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.17.136.129] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:25:08 PDT Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:25:08 -0700 (PDT) From: SJ Subject: Device Driver Doc. (ddwg.ps) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I am looking for the file "ddwg.ps" or "ddwg.pdf" (device driver documentation). Is it available on web? thanks SJ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 13:26:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from maxim.gbch.net (gw.gbch.net [203.24.22.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EB93137B423 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gjb@gbch.net) Received: (qmail 18424 invoked by uid 1001); 26 May 2001 06:26:11 +1000 Message-ID: X-Posted-By: GJB-Post 2.19 02-May-2001 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 X-Location: Brisbane, Australia; 27.49841S 152.98439E X-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb.html X-Image-URL: http://www.gbch.net/gjb/gjb-auug048.gif X-GPG-Fingerprint: EBB2 2A92 A79D 1533 AC00 3C46 5D83 B6FB 4B04 B7D6 X-PGP-Public-Keys: http://www.gbch.net/keys.html Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 06:26:11 +1000 From: Greg Black To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <200105251718.VAA06296@aaz.links.ru> In-reply-to: <200105251718.VAA06296@aaz.links.ru> of Fri, 25 May 2001 21:18:05 +0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I would have sent this to the original author if he had used a proper email address on his post; sorry to those who don't want to see it. | > | I have files fooX where X is a number from 00000 to 60000 in that | > | directory. I need to find a piece of information, so I run that | > | information through a hash of some sort and determine that the file I want | > | is number 23429, so I open that file. | > | > And if this imaginary program is going to do that, it's equally | > easy to use a multilevel directory structure and that will make | > the life of all users of the system simpler. There's no real | > excuse for directories with millions (or even thousands) of | > files. | There is. | You assume that names are random. | Assume that they are not. | VERY old example: | a | aa | ... | aaaaaaa...aaa 255 times | aaaaaaa...aab | so on. | Yes, I know: hash. | | Is it practical to this in every application | (sometimes it is unknown before practical use | if directories become big) instead in | one file system? Any real programmer has tools that make this trivial. I keep a pathname hashing function and a couple of standalone programs that exercise it from shell scripts in my toolbox and can stitch them into anything that needs fixing in no time. My code allows for nearly 1.3 trillion names in a six-level hierarchy if you can limit yourself to about 500 hundred names per directory, but can be easily extended for really idiotic uses. | Sorry for a bad English. We can live with that, but it's a bit rude to send messages out without a valid "From" address. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 13:29:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp10.phx.gblx.net (smtp10.phx.gblx.net [64.211.219.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE22637B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:29:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp10.phx.gblx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21530 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:29:09 -0700 Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp10.phx.gblx.net, id smtpd2aGgEa; Fri May 25 13:29:01 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA13237 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:37:13 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200105252037.NAA13237@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: technical comparison To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:37:13 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ] > ] > 1. I don't think I've ever seen a Linux distro which has write ] > ] > caching enabled by default. Hell, DMA33 isn't even enabled ] > ] > by default ;) ] > ] ] > ] You are talking about controlling the IDE drive cache. ] > ] ] > ] The issue here is write cache in the filesystem code. ] > ] > No. The issue here is the write cache on the drive. ] > FreeBSD with soft updates will operate within 4% of the top memory ] > bandwidth; see the Ganger/Patt paper on the technology. ] ] I have a file, CSE-TR-254-95.ps, that I think is probably the paper ] you are talking about. The title is "Soft Updates: A Solution to the ] Metadata Update Problem in File Systems". The link on Ganger's page was ] dead, but I'm sure this is the one you mean. ] ] Nowhere do they support the idea that soft udpates can approach a ] system's memory bandwidth. I said "top memory bandwidth", not "a system's memory bandwidth"; please be more careful. Quoting from section 6, "Conclusions and Future Work": We have described a new mechanism, soft updates, that can be used to achieve memory-based file system ************************ performance while providing stronger integrity and *********** security guarantees (e.g. allocation initialization) and higher availability (via shorter recovery times) than most UNIX file systems. This translates into a performance improvement of more than a factor fo 2 in many cases (up to a maximum observed difference of a factor of 15). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 13:35:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp10.phx.gblx.net (smtp10.phx.gblx.net [64.211.219.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5236137B423 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:35:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp10.phx.gblx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13964 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:35:33 -0700 Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp10.phx.gblx.net, id smtpdQGXVia; Fri May 25 13:35:26 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA13280 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:42:24 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200105252042.NAA13280@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: technical comparison To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:42:24 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ] Nothing in Unix stops you from putting millions of files in a ] directory. There are (I mantain _obviously_) good reasons to ] want to do that. The only thing that stops you is that _some_ ] Unix platforms, using _some_ file systems, behave badly if you ] do that. There are _no_ good reasons for using an FS as if the directory structure was a key file, file names keys, and file contents data records in a relational database. We have things which were built precisely for this type of use. We call them "relational databases". ] They should be fixed. Feel free to submit patches, so long as they do not damage any backward compatability, and do not compromise performance under normal workloads just to pass some obscure "test" that somone has devised to "prove" one FS is "better" than another by doing ridiculous things which will never happen except in special purpose situations, in which special purpose tools are a better fit. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 13:42:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp10.phx.gblx.net (smtp10.phx.gblx.net [64.211.219.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C02DE37B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:42:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp10.phx.gblx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA41616 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:42:31 -0700 Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp10.phx.gblx.net, id smtpdaZH7aa; Fri May 25 13:42:23 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA13292 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:49:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200105252049.NAA13292@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: technical comparison To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:49:21 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ] It's got nothing to do with the basics of software engineering or ] computer science. It's got to do with interface definitions and ] APIs. ] ] Where in open(1) does it specify a limit on the number of files ] permissible in a directory? The closest that it comes, that I can ] see is: [ ... ] ] All of which quite clearly indicate that if one wants to put all ] of ones allocation of blocks or inodes into a single directory, ] then one can, as long as the name and path length limits are ] observed. "UNIX, in not preventing you from doing stupid things, permits you to do clever things which other operatings systems do not permit.". I maintain that just because you are not administratively prohibited from doing stupid things, that in no way makes doing those things less stupid. ] You're welcome to claim a documentation bug, and add the ] appropriate caveat. It seems clear to me that Hans Reiser (and ] Silicon Graphics before him) have taken the more obvious approach, ] of attempting to remove the performance limitation inherent in the ] existing implementation. The "performance limitation"? Get your story straight: is there a limitation, or isn't there? ] You can moan about tree-structured vs relational databases, but if ] your problem space doesn't intrinsically map to a tree, then it ] doesn't stop the tree-structring transformation that Terry ] mentioned from being a gratuitious hack to work around a ] performance problem with the existing implementation. It is not a "performance problem with the existing implementation", it is "pilot error". There is _no_ performance problem with "the existing implementation", if you treat "postgres" as "the existing implementation"; it will do what you want, quickly and effectively, for millions of record keys. Why are you treating an FS as if it were a relational database? It is a tool intended to solve an entirely different problem set. You are bitching about your hammer not making a good screwdriver. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 13:53:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp10.phx.gblx.net (smtp10.phx.gblx.net [64.211.219.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A688437B423 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:53:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp10.phx.gblx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA39330 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:53:37 -0700 Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp10.phx.gblx.net, id smtpdn2CzMa; Fri May 25 13:53:26 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA13350 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:59:09 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200105252059.NAA13350@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:59:09 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ] That mood is nice in theory, but doesn't seem to fit practice. My boxes ] are on UPSes, and I have trouble remembering the last time the power went ] out. On the other hand, I can clearly remember the last panic ] on my -current box which required a manual fsck to repair (yesterday). ] And yes, write caching was disabled on the box at the time. It seems to ] me that we're assuming hardware write caching is some evil villan which ] will steal our data without any evidence. At the same time, we're putting ] blind trust in filesystems to always DTRT. Software is provable. If the hardware were not trying to get marketing benchmarks, or if people were willing to live within the constraints that their hardware is subject to, instead of pushing it past the limits of safety, then it wouldn't be a problem. For example, SCSI drives do not have this serialization problem when write caching is disabled, since they support the idea of permitting multiple outstanding operations simultanemously (i.e. tagged command queuing). Apparently, some modern (IBM supplied) IDE drives appear to be capable of supporting this as well. It's nice that the IDE manufacturers have finally gotten around to conforming to their own design specification, after a decade. ] And stuck in the middle is a growing number of people who are seeing a ] noticeable slowdown with 4.3, and will start telling their friends that ] FreeBSD is slow. So add an option to sysinstall called: "Fast and at least as reliable as Linux" and let them find out for themselves that that means that it's really dangerous, and that after a crash for whatever reason (e.g. your panic crash, or a power failure for anyone without a UPS in California), they will have to manuall fsck, whereas without the write caching, it wouldn't have been a problem. NB: Write caching isn't a problem: it's the drive lying out its arse and telling us that the write was committed to stable storage, when in fact it was only cached, which is the problem. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 13:57:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1494F37B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:57:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@nuxi.ucdavis.edu) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root@[206.40.252.115]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4PKv5l30646 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:57:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f4PKuUI99166; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:56:30 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Brent Verner Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: gcc (cpp) include search path problem Message-ID: <20010525135630.B98589@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010524055537.A8563@rcfile.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010524055537.A8563@rcfile.org>; from brent@rcfile.org on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 05:55:38AM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 05:55:38AM -0400, Brent Verner wrote: > IMO, the search path for cpp should include /usr/local/include, > especially since we install ports there. That would be wrong. We install ports where ever you tell the system to. That could be /usr/reall-cool-FreeBSD-treats/ or anything. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 15: 5:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from messiah.megadeb.org (cpe.atm0-0-0-218131.arcnxx5.customer.tele.dk [62.242.79.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64A0837B440 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from messiah@runbox.com) Received: (from messiah@localhost) by messiah.megadeb.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4PM75609897 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 26 May 2001 00:07:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from messiah) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 00:07:02 +0200 From: Munish Chopra To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device Driver Doc. (ddwg.ps) Message-ID: <20010526000702.E9331@messiah.megadeb.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010525202508.25381.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20010525202508.25381.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com>; from sandejain@rocketmail.com on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:25:08PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:25:08PM -0700, SJ wrote: > Hi all, > I am looking for the file "ddwg.ps" or "ddwg.pdf" > (device driver documentation). > > Is it available on web? Though I'm pretty sure it's available several places, I'm also pretty sure it's a bit outdated :) You might want to try the Developer's Handbook instead: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/books/developers-handbook/index.html -- -Munish To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 15:25:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EE0A37B423 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:25:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4PMPXI44229; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:25:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:25:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105252225.f4PMPXI44229@earth.backplane.com> To: Dave Hayes , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Preliminary Tuning man page (was Re: Benchmarking FreeBSD (was ...)) References: <200105250638.XAA06408@hokkshideh.jetcafe.org> <200105251951.f4PJp1b42293@earth.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, here is my first shot at a 'tuning' manual page. If anyone wants to review it, I am open to all suggestions, grammatical and formatting, fixes etc... just email me with the changes (do not email the entire document back to me, just a diff). It's not 100% complete (well duh!), but it's a good start. While this topic is broken open, if anyone has adjustments or updates for my 'security' man page (which is already in the system), email diffs for that to me as well. Now is the time. Sometime this weekend I'll commit it. I think I'll do a 'firewall' manual page as well. I'm tired of people not configuring firewalls properly and then whining about it. -Matt .\" Copyright (c) 2001, Matthew Dillon. Terms and conditions are those of .\" the BSD Copyright as specified in the file "/usr/src/COPYRIGHT" in .\" the source tree. .\" .\" $FreeBSD$ .\" .Dd May 25, 2001 .Dt TUNING 7 .Os FreeBSD .Sh NAME .Nm tuning .Nd performance tuning under FreeBSD .Sh SYSTEM SETUP - DISKLABEL, NEWFS, TUNEFS, SWAP .Pp When using .Xr disklabel 8 to lay out your filesystems on a hard disk it is important to remember that hard drives can transfer data much more quickly from outer tracks then they can from inner tracks. To take advantage of this you should try to pack your smaller filesystems and swap closer to the outer tracks, follow with the larger filesystems, and end with the largest filesystems. It is also important to size system standard filesystems such that you will not be forced to resize them later as you scale the machine up. I usually create, in order, a 128M root, 1G swap, 128M /var, 128M /var/tmp, 3G /usr, and use any remaining space for /home. You should typically size your swap space to approximately 2x main memory. If you do not have a lot of ram, though, you will generally want a lot more swap. It is not recommended that you configure any less then 256M of swap on a system. The kernel's VM paging algorithms are tuned to perform best when there is at least 2x swap verses main memory. Configuring too little swap can lead to inefficiencies in the VM page scanning code as well as create issues later on if you add more memory to your machine. .Pp How you size your .Em /var partition depends heavily on what you intend to use the machine for. This partition is primarily used to hold mailboxes and the print spool. If your machine is intended to act as a mail or print server you should consider creating a much larger partition - perhaps a gig or more. Sizing .Em /var/tmp depends on the kind of temp file usage you think you will need. 128M is the minimum we recommend. .Pp The .Em /usr partition holds the bulk of the files required to support the system and a subdirectory within it called .Em /usr/local holds the bulk of the files installed from the .Xr ports 7 hierarchy. If you do not use ports all that much and do not intend to keep system source (/usr/src) on the machine, you can get away with a 1 gigabyte /usr partition. However, if you install a lot of ports (especially window managers and linux-emulated binaries), we recommend at least a 2 gigabyte /usr and if you also intend to keep system source on the machine, we recommend a 3 gigabyte /usr. Do not underestimate the amount of space you will need in this partition, it can creep up and surprise you! .Pp The .Em /home partition is typically used to hold user-specific data. I usually size it to the remainder of the disk. .Pp Why partition at all? Why not create one big .Em /dev/kmem partition and be done with it? Then I don't have to worry about undersizing things! Well, there are several reasons this isn't a good idea. First, each partition has different operational characteristics and separating them allows the filesystem to tune itself to those characteristics. For example, the root and /usr partitions are read-mostly, with very little writing, while a lot of reading and writing could occur in /var and /var/tmp. By properly partitioning your system, fragmentation introduced in the smaller more heavily write-loaded partitions will not bleed over into the mostly-read partitions. Additionally, keeping the write-loaded partitions closer to the edge of the disk (i.e. before the really big partitions instead of after in the partition table) will increase I/O performance in the partitions where you need it the most. Now it is true that you might also need I/O performance in the larger partitions, but they are so large that shifting them more towards the edge of the disk will not lead to a significnat performance improvement whereas moving /var to the edge can have a huge impact. .Pp Properly partitioning your system also allows you to tune .Xr newfs 8 , and .Xr tunefs 8 parameters. Tuning .Fn newfs requires more experience but can lead to significant improvements in performance. There are three parameters that are relatively safe to tune: .Em blocksize , .Em bytes/inode , and .Em cylinders/group . .Pp .Fx performs best when using 8K or 16K filesystem block sizes. The default filesystem block size is 8K. For larger partitions it is usually a good idea to use a 16K block size. This also requires you to specify a larger fragment size. We recommend always using a fragment size that is 1/8 the block size (less testing has been done on other fragment size factors). The .Fn newfs options for this would be .Li Em newfs -f 2048 -b 16384 ... Using a larger block size can cause fragmentation of the buffer cache and lead to lower performance. .Pp If a large partition is intended to be used to hold fewer, larger files, such as a database files, you can increase the .Em bytes/inode ratio which reduces the number if inodes (maximum number of files and directories that can be created) for that partition. Decreasing the number of inodes in a filesystem can greatly reduce .Xr fsck 8 recovery times after a crash. Do not use this option unless you are actually storing large files on the partition, because if you overcompensate you can wind up with a filesystem that has lots of free space remaining but cannot accomodate any more files. Using 32768, 65536, or 262144 bytes/inode is recommended. You can go higher but it will have only incremental effects on fsck recovery times. For example, .Li Em newfs -i 32768 ... .Pp Finally, increasing the .Em cyliners/group ratio has the effect of packing the inodes closer together. This can increase directory performance and also decrease fsck times. If you use this option at all, we recommend maxing it out. Use .Li Em newfs -c 999 and newfs will error out and tell you what the maximum is, then use that. .Pp .Xr tunefs 8 may be used to further tune a filesystem. This command can be run in single-user mode without having to reformat the filesystem. However, this is possibly the most abused program in the system. Many people attempt to increase available filesystem space by setting the min-free percentage to 0. This can lead to severe filesystem fragmentation and we do not recommend that you do this. Really the only tunefs option worthwhile here is turning on .Em softupdates with .Li Em tunefs -n enable /filesystem. Softupdates drastically improves meta-data performance, mainly file creation and deletion. We recommend turning softupdates on on all of your filesystems. There are two downsides to softupdates that you should be aware of: First, softupdates guarentees filesystem consistency in the case of a crash but could very easily be several seconds (even a minute!) behind updating the physical disk. If you crash you may loose more work then otherwise. Secondly, softupdates delays the freeing of filesystem blocks. If you have a filesystem (such as the root filesystem) which is close to full, doing a major update of it, e.g. .Em make installworld, can run it out of space and cause the update to fail. .Sh SYSCTL TUNING .Pp There are several hundred .Xr sysctl 8 variables in the system, including many that appear to be candidates for tuning but actually aren't. In this document we will only cover the ones that have the greatest effect on the system. .Pp The .Em kern.ipc.shm_use_phys sysctl defaults to 0 (off) and may be set to 0 (off) or 1 (on). Setting this parameter to 1 will cause all SysV shared memory segments to be mapped to unpageable physical ram. This feature only has an effect if you are either (A) mapping small amounts of shared memory across many (hundreds) of processes, or (B) mapping large amounts of shared memory across any number of processes. This feature allows the kernel to remove a great deal of internal memory management page-tracking overhead at the cost of wiring the shared memory into core, making it unswappable. .Pp The .Em vfs.vmiodirenable sysctl defaults to 0 (off) (though soon it will default to 1) and may be set to 0 (off) or 1 (on). This parameter controls how directories are cached by the system. Most directories are small and use but a single fragment (typically 1K) in the filesystem and even less (typically 512 bytes) in the buffer cache. However, when operating in the default mode the buffer cache will only cache a fixed number of directories even if you have a huge amount of memory. Turning on this sysctl allows the buffer cache to use the VM Page Cache to cache the directories. The advantage is that all of memory is now available for caching directories. The disadvantage is that the minimum in-core memory used to cache a directory is the physical page size (typically 4K) rather then 512 bytes. We recommend turning this option on if you are running any services which manipulate large numbers of files. Such services can include web caches, large mail systems, and news systems. Turning on this option will generally not reduce performance even with the wasted memory but you should experiment to find out. .Pp There are various buffer-cache and VM page cache related sysctls. We do not recommend messing around with these at all. As of .Fx 4.3 , the VM system does an extremely good job tuning itself. .Pp The .Em net.inet.tcp.sendspace and .Em net.inet.tcp.recvspace sysctls are of particular interest if you are running network intensive applications. This controls the amount of send and receive buffer space allowed for any given TCP connection. The default is 16K. You can often improve bandwidth utilization by increasing the default at the cost of eating up more kernel memory for each connection. We do not recommend increasing the defaults if you are serving hundreds or thousands of simultanious connections because it is possible to quickly run the system out of memory due to stalled connections building up. But if you need high bandwidth over a fewer number of connections, especially if you have gigabit ethernet, increasing these defaults can make a huge difference. You can adjust the buffer size for incoming and outgoing data separately. For example, if your machine is primarily doing web serving you may want to decrease the recvspace in order to be able to increase the sendspace without eating too much kernel memory. Note that the route table, see .Xr route 8 , can be used to introduce route-specific send and receive buffer size defaults. As an additional mangagement tool you can use pipes in your firewall rules, see .Xr ipfw 8 , to limit the bandwidth going to or from particular IP blocks or ports. For example, if you have a T1 you might want to limit your web traffic to 70% of the T1's bandwidth in order to leave the remainder available for mail and interactive use. Normally a heavily loaded web server will not introduce significant latencies into other services even if the network link is maxed out, but enforcing a limit can smooth things out and lead to longer term stability. Many people also enforce artificial bandwidth limitations in order to ensure that they are not charged for using too much bandwidth. .Pp We recommend that you turn on (set to 1) and leave on the .Em net.inet.tcp.always_keepalive control. The default is usually off. This introduces a small amount of additional network bandwidth but guarentees that dead tcp connections will eventually be recognized and cleared. Dead tcp connections are a particular problem on systems accesed by users operating over dialups, because users often disconnect their modems without properly closing active connections. .Sh KERNEL CONFIG TUNING .Pp There are a number of kernel options that you may have to fiddle with in a large scale system. In order to change these options you need to be able to compile a new kernel from source. The .Xr config 8 manual page and the handbook are good starting points for learning how to do this. Generally the first thing you do when creating your own custom kernel is to strip out all the drivers and services you don't use. Removing things like .Em INET6 and drivers you don't have will reduce the size of your kernel, sometimes by a megabyte or more, leaving more memory available for applications. .Pp The .Em maxusers kernel option defaults to an incredibly low value. For most modern machines, you probably want to increase this value to 64, 128, or 256. We do not recommend going above 256 unless you need a huge number of file descriptors. Network buffers are also effected but can be controlled with a separate kernel option. Do not increase maxusers just to get more network mbufs. .Pp .Em NMBCLUSTERS may be adjusted to increase the number of network mbufs the system is willing to allocate. Each cluster represents approximately 16K of memory, so a value of 1024 represents 16M of kernel memory reserved for network buffers. You can do a simple calculation to figure out how many you need. If you have a web server which maxes out at 1000 simultanious connections, and each connection eats a 16K receive and 16K send buffer, you need approximate 32MB worth of network buffers to deal with it. A good rule of thumb is to multiply by 2, so 32MBx2 = 64MB/16K = 4096. So for this case you would want to se NMBCLUSTERS to 4096. We recommend values between 1024 and 4096 for machines with moderates amount of memory, and 4096, 8192, or 16384 for machines with greater amounts of memory. Under no circumstances should you specify an arbitrarily high value for this parameter, it could lead to a machine crash. .Pp More and more programs are using the .Fn sendfile system call to transmit files over the network. The .Em NFSBUFS kernel parameter controls the number of filesystem buffers .Fn sendfile is allowed to use to perform its work. This parameter nominally scales with .Em maxusers so you should not need to mess with this parameter except under extreme circumstances. .Pp .Em SCSI_DELAY and .Em IDE_DELAY may be used to reduce system boot times. The defaults are fairly high and can be responsible for 15+ seconds of delay in the boot process. Reducing SCSI_DELAY to 5 seconds usually works (especially with modern drives). Reducing IDE_DELAY also works but you have to be a little more careful. .Pp There are a number of .Em XXX_CPU options that can be commented out. If you only want the kernel to run on a Pentium class cpu, you can easily remove .Em I386_CPU and .Em I486_CPU, but only remove .Em I586_CPU if you are sure your cpu is being recognized as a Pentium II or better. Some clones may be recognized as a pentium or even a 486 and not be able to boot without those options. If it works, great! The operating system will be able to better-use higher-end cpu features for mmu, task switching, timebase, and even device operations. Additionally, higher-end cpus support 4MB MMU pages which the kernel uses to map the kernel itself into memory, which increases its efficiency under heavy syscall loads. .Sh IDE WRITE CACHING As of .Fx 4.3 , IDE write caching is turned off by default. This will reduce write bandwidth to IDE disks but is considered necessary due to serious data consistency issues introduced by hard drive vendors. Basically the problem is that IDE drives lie about when a write completes. With IDE write caching turned on, IDE hard drives will not only write data to disk out of order, they will sometimes delay some of the blocks indefinitely when under heavy disk loads. A crash or power failure can result in serious filesystem corruption. So our default is to be safe. If you are willing to risk filesystem corruption, you can return to the old behavior by setting the hw.ata.wc kernel variable back to 1. This must be done from the boot loader at boot time. Please see .Xr ata 4 , and .Xr loader 8 . .Pp There is a new experimental feature for IDE hard drives called hw.ata.tags (you also set this in the bootloader) which allows write caching to be safely turned on. This brings SCSI tagging features to IDE drives. As of this writing only IBMDPTA and DTLA drives support the feature. .Sh CPU, MEMORY, DISK, NETWORK The type of tuning you do depends heavily on where your system begins to bottleneck as load increases. If your system runs out of cpu (idle times are pepetually 0%) then you need to consider upgrading the cpu or moving to an SMP motherboard (multiple cpu's), or perhaps you need to revisit the programs that are causing the load and try to optimize them. If your system is paing to swap a lot you need to consider adding more memory. If your system is saturating the disk you typically see high cpu idle times and total disk saturation. .Xr systat 1 can be used to monitor this. There are many solutions to saturated disks: increasing memory for caching, mirroring disks, distributing operations across several machines, and so forth. If disk performance is an issue and you are using IDE drives, switching to SCSI can help a great deal. While modern IDE drives compare with SCSI in raw sequential bandwidth, the moment you start seeking around the disk SCSI drives usually win. .Pp Finally, you might run out of network suds. The first line of defense for improving network performance is to make sure you are using switches instead of hubs, especially these days where switches are almost as cheap. Hubs are severely limited due to collision backoff and can cause other inefficiencies to build in the system (such as causing more tcp packet retries to occur due to nondeterministic delays). If you are hitting a bottleneck in your WAN link (e.g. modem, T1, DSL, whatever) and do not have the luxury of getting a bigger pipe, you may be able to use .XR ipfw 8 to partition and traffic-shape the bandwidth going over the pipe. Obviously you cannot push more bandwidth then the pipe will hold, but you can tune it so an overload with one service does not effect all services running over the pipe. .Sh SEE ALSO .Pp .Xr ata 4 , .Xr boot 8 , .Xr config 8 , .Xr disklabel 8 , .Xr fsck 8 , .Xr ifconfig 8 , .Xr ipfw 8 , .Xr loader 8 , .Xr login.conf 5 , .Xr newfs 8 , .Xr ports 7 , .Xr route 8 , .Xr sysctl 8 , .Xr systat 1 , .Xr tunefs 8 .Sh HISTORY The .Nm manual page was originally written by .An Matthew Dillon and first appeared in .Fx 4.3 , May 2001. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 15:30:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51A8E37B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:30:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4PMUel44295; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:30:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:30:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105252230.f4PMUel44295@earth.backplane.com> To: Greg Black Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <200105251718.VAA06296@aaz.links.ru> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG One word: B+Tree. Hash tables work well if the entire hash table fits into memory and you know (approximately) what the upper limit on records is going to be. If you don't, then a B+Tree is the only proven way to go. (sure, there are plenty of other schemes, some hybrid, some completely different, but B+Tree's have been long proven so unless you want to experiment, just use one). In general I agree that UFS's only major pitfall is the sequential directory scanning. The reality, though, is that very few programs actually need to create thousands or millions of files in a single directory. The biggest one used to be USENET news but that has shifted into multi-article files and isn't an issue any more. Now the biggest one is probably squid. Databases are big storage-wise, but don't usually require lots of files. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 15:33:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from meow.osd.bsdi.com (meow.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8619C37B424 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:33:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (john@jhb-laptop.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.241]) by meow.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f4PMXCG22219; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:33:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200105252225.f4PMPXI44229@earth.backplane.com> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:33:19 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Matt Dillon Subject: RE: Preliminary Tuning man page (was Re: Benchmarking FreeBSD (w Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 25-May-01 Matt Dillon wrote: > Ok, here is my first shot at a 'tuning' manual page. If anyone wants > to review it, I am open to all suggestions, grammatical and formatting, > fixes etc... just email me with the changes (do not email the entire > document back to me, just a diff). It's not 100% complete (well duh!), > but it's a good start. [ snip ] Nice! One thing to note in the filesystem tuning is that newfs can turn on softupdates at newfs time now with -U, at least in -current. > .Sh HISTORY > The > .Nm > manual page was originally written by > .An Matthew Dillon > and first appeared > in > .Fx 4.3 , > May 2001. Should be .Fx 4.4. :) -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 15:42: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED44937B424 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:42:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4PMfwv44488; Fri, 25 May 2001 15:41:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:41:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105252241.f4PMfwv44488@earth.backplane.com> To: Shannon Hendrix Cc: "Andresen,Jason R." , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <20010522210824.C2734@widomaker.com> <20010523085147.N87127-100000@nausicaa.mitre.org> <20010523115748.C13163@widomaker.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ultimately something like Reiser will win over UFS, but performance figures aren't the whole picture. Most of the bugs have been worked out of UFS and the recovery tools are extremely mature. Only a handful of edge cases have been found in the last decade. Nearly all the bugs in the last few years have turned out to be buffer cache or VM bugs rather then filesystem bugs. ResierFS has a long way to go before it can be safely used on production systems. Linux, having just moved to a totally new VM system also has a long way to go (and, for the same reason, FreeBSD-5 has a long way to go before it can safely be used in production). When Reiser starts to get close, I'll be the first one to port it to FreeBSD :-) Consider for a moment the development roadmap for UFS, EXT2FS, and REISERFS. It took UFS and its supporting tools years to get as good as it is for production purposes. It has taken EXT2FS a number of years to reach where it is. ReiserFS is new, and it is going to be a while. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 23:21:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from m44.spnet.com (m44.spnet.com [207.181.251.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 101C537B422 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 23:21:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from elh_fbsd@spnet.com) Received: from spnet.com (localhost.spnet [127.0.0.1]) by m44.spnet.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4Q6L6911677; Fri, 25 May 2001 23:21:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from elh_fbsd@spnet.com) Message-Id: <200105260621.f4Q6L6911677@m44.spnet.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: elh_fbsd@spnet.com Subject: Re: general speed differences between 4.1.1-RELEASE and 4.3-RELEASE In-Reply-To: Message from Terry Lambert of "Fri, 25 May 2001 20:59:09 -0000." <200105252059.NAA13350@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed ; boundary="==_Exmh_1186282120" Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:21:06 -0700 From: Ed Hudson Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multipart MIME message. --==_Exmh_1186282120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii the cost of soft updates, and the cost of hw.ata.wc=0 enclosed is a .jpeg of an xgraph of the following interactive test: a monitor computer, rsh's to a test machine and does a 'date' command, then waits 5 seconds, and repeats. on the test machine, an athlon 1.2gig / 266fsb / 512meg/133(266ddr) / wdc300ab udma100 drive, iwill mother board, an 'iozone 1024' is launched to local disk (old iozone 2.0.1), just after the third rsh (ie, after 10seconds). the y-axis of the chart is the time it takes the test machine to respond to the 'rsh date'. the x-axis is the absolute time from the start of the experiment(s). there are 3 sets of data: hw.ata.wc=0, soft-updates enables. hw.ata.wc=0, soft-updates disabled. hw.ata.wc=1, soft-updates disabled. the 'points' in the graph are the only real data (the lines are xgraph's interpolations). the data effectively shows that, under this (high disk) loading condition, soft-updates are slower than no soft updates for a (competing?) trivial interactive command. it also shows the HUGE cost of turning write-caching off. think of the interactive pain as being the area under the curves... the small (blue) curve is what 4.1.1 'felt' like, the biggest (green) curve is the (effectively) recommended mode of operation. it seems to me that this says that freebsd's long-standing characteristic of better performance than linux under load is weakened, with the default configuration of 4.3-RELEASE. i'll be pleased to provide the test (tcl) script, and my raw data, to anyone that would care to see them, and i'm open to criticism about my methodology. i also agree in advance that different stress conditions would have changed the results at least somewhat. -elh --==_Exmh_1186282120 Content-Type: image/jpeg ; name="interactive.jpg" Content-Description: interactive.jpg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="interactive.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD//gBvCgpDUkVBVE9SOiBYViBWZXJzaW9uIDMuMTBhIFJl djogMTIvMjkvOTQgKGpwLWV4dGVuc2lvbiA1LjMuMyArIFBORyBwYXRjaCAxLjJkKSAgUXVh bGl0eSA9IDQxLCBTbW9vdGhpbmcgPSAwCv/bAEMAEw0PEQ8MExEQERYVExcdMB8dGxsdOyot IzBGPkpJRT5EQ01Xb15NUmlTQ0RhhGJpc3d9fn1LXYmSiHmRb3p9eP/bAEMBFRYWHRkdOR8f OXhQRFB4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4 eP/AABEIAcoCbgMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAfAAABBQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJCgv/ xAC1EAACAQMDAgQDBQUEBAAAAX0BAgMABBEFEiExQQYTUWEHInEUMoGRoQgjQrHBFVLR8CQz YnKCCQoWFxgZGiUmJygpKjQ1Njc4OTpDREVGR0hJSlNUVVZXWFlaY2RlZmdoaWpzdHV2d3h5 eoOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna 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uy/9/wBv8aP3X92X/v8At/jWD583/PV/++jR583/AD1f/vo0BaPY3v3X92X/AL/t/jR+6/uy /wDf9v8AGsHz5v8Anq//AH0aPPm/56v/AN9GgLR7G9+6/uy/9/2/xo/df3Zf+/7f41g+fN/z 1f8A76NHnzf89X/76NAWj2N791/dl/7/ALf40fuv7sv/AH/b/GsHz5v+er/99Gjz5v8Anq// AH0aAtHsa946x2rtGJAwHBMzHHP1qzIkSOV2ynH/AE2b/GueaWRhhpHIPYsanvJ5ReTgSvgS MB8x9aBWjfY2UMSOriNyy8jdKxx271Q1P/j3X/fH8jWf583/AD1f/vo0jSSOMO7MPQnNA20l ZI//2Q== --==_Exmh_1186282120-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 25 23:23:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FA9437B42C; Fri, 25 May 2001 23:23:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4Q6NuR48325; Fri, 25 May 2001 23:23:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:23:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105260623.f4Q6NuR48325@earth.backplane.com> To: John Baldwin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RE: Preliminary Tuning man page (was Re: Benchmarking FreeBSD (w References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :[ snip ] : :Nice! One thing to note in the filesystem tuning is that newfs can :turn on softupdates at newfs time now with -U, at least in -current. I'll clarify it. :> .Sh HISTORY :> The :> .Nm :> manual page was originally written by :> .An Matthew Dillon :> and first appeared :> in :> .Fx 4.3 , :> May 2001. : :Should be .Fx 4.4. :) : :-- : :John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ Sticky issue, but from the point of view of the release CD's I'll go with your suggestion. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 0:20:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDBE537B422 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 00:20:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4Q7KsG48718; Sat, 26 May 2001 00:20:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 00:20:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105260720.f4Q7KsG48718@earth.backplane.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Updated Tuning man page on web Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here's where I'll be keeping the tuning man page update until I commit it saturday evening. I've already made some improvements. http://apollo.backplane.com/FreeBSD/tuning.man http://apollo.backplane.com/FreeBSD/tuning.html (man -> html generated using) groff -mandoc -Thtml tuning.man > tuning.html -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 2:10:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alma.tavrida.net (alma.tavrida.net [193.220.126.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B9BE37B422; Sat, 26 May 2001 02:10:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kirill@tavrida.net) Received: from localhost (kirill@localhost) by alma.tavrida.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4Q99bj89418; Sat, 26 May 2001 12:09:42 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 12:09:37 +0300 (EEST) From: Kirill To: Cc: , , , Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010526120647.N89280-100000@alma.tavrida.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 24 May 2001, Mattias Berge wrote: > Hi, I have sme major problems with getting the SMP support to work. > My machine is a Compaq Proliant 380D with dual 733 mhz pIII processors. > I run FreeBSD 4.3-REL. > I have added the two SMP lines in my kernel conf and delöeted the I*86_CPU > that I do not need. > Then I compiled the kernel and rebooted, and it hangs in boot when it says: > > Changing APIC ID for IO APIC #0 from 0 to 8 on chip > Programming 35 pins in IOAPIC #0 > IOAPIC #0 intpin -> irq 0 Change your OS type in BIOS to Linux, and upgrade your BIOS if you have older one. Kirill kirill@tavrida.net > > Anyone expiriance (and solved) a similar problem? > Please reply to this mail, since Im not a member of any list. > Thanks in advance, > > Mattias Berge > Atos Medical AB > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-smp" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 2:25:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from areilly.bpc-users.org (CPE-144-132-234-126.nsw.bigpond.net.au [144.132.234.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B5CC37B423 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 02:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from areilly@bigpond.net.au) Received: (qmail 2720 invoked by uid 1000); 26 May 2001 09:25:16 -0000 From: "Andrew Reilly" Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:25:16 +1000 To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010526192516.A2573@gurney.reilly.home> References: <200105252049.NAA13292@usr06.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105252049.NAA13292@usr06.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 08:49:21PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 08:49:21PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > There is _no_ performance problem with "the existing implementation", > if you treat "postgres" as "the existing implementation"; it will do > what you want, quickly and effectively, for millions of record keys. Does postgres make a good mail archive database? Can it handle arbitrary record lengths? It couldn't the last time I looked at it. > Why are you treating an FS as if it were a relational database? It > is a tool intended to solve an entirely different problem set. I'm not treating it as a relational database. But if mail messages aren't conceptually "files", then I don't know what they are. One of my personal mail folders has 4400 messages in it, and I've only been collecting that one for a few years. It's not millions, but its a few more than the "500" that I've seen some discuss here as a reasonable limit (why is that reasonable?) and it's many many more than the 72 or so limit available in ADFS. I changed over to Maildirs becuase I like the fact that I can use normal Unix file search and manipulation programs on individual messages, as well as a wider set of MUAs (thanks to courier IMAP...), and because folder opening doesn't bog down when there are a couple of messages with really large attachments in them, the way mbox folders do. > You are bitching about your hammer not making a good screwdriver. If the file system isn't a good place to store files, then what is it good for? Souce code trees only? There are application specific databases available for that too. What have you got left? -- Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 2:37:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from areilly.bpc-users.org (CPE-144-132-234-126.nsw.bigpond.net.au [144.132.234.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D994637B422 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 02:37:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from areilly@bigpond.net.au) Received: (qmail 2853 invoked by uid 1000); 26 May 2001 09:37:23 -0000 From: "Andrew Reilly" Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:37:23 +1000 To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: technical comparison Message-ID: <20010526193723.B2573@gurney.reilly.home> References: <200105252049.NAA13292@usr06.primenet.com> <20010526192516.A2573@gurney.reilly.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010526192516.A2573@gurney.reilly.home>; from areilly@bigpond.net.au on Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:25:16PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:25:16PM +1000, Andrew Reilly wrote: > One of my personal mail folders has 4400 messages in it, and > I've only been collecting that one for a few years. It's not > millions, but its a few more than the "500" that I've seen some > discuss here as a reasonable limit (why is that reasonable?) and > it's many many more than the 72 or so limit available in ADFS. I realised as soon as I pressed the send button that my current use of large directories for mail files doesn't actually involve any random access: the directory is read sequentially to build the header list. It is quite concievable that a performance tweak to the IMAP server could involve a header cache in a relational database of some sort, and that would certainly contain references to the individual files, which would then be accessed randomly. /usr/ports/distfiles on any of the mirrors probably contains upwards of 5000 files too, and there is a strong likelyhood that these will be accessed out-of-order by ports-makefile-driven fetch requests. -- Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 5:13:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from messiah.megadeb.org (cpe.atm0-0-0-218131.arcnxx5.customer.tele.dk [62.242.79.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AFB37B423 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 05:13:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from messiah@runbox.com) Received: (from messiah@localhost) by messiah.megadeb.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4QCF7713903 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 26 May 2001 14:15:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from messiah) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 14:15:07 +0200 From: Munish Chopra To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: odd empty mails from owner-freebsd-hackers Message-ID: <20010526141507.A13617@messiah.megadeb.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is anyone else getting a bunch of empty mails from owner-freebsd-hackers? They look something like this: From: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Bcc: Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:02:31 +0200 All that ever changes is date and time...any explanation for this? -- -Munish To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 13: 7:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dzerzhinsky.rem.cs.cmu.edu (DZERZHINSKY.REM.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.80.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC4837B422 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 13:07:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nlanza@dzerzhinsky.rem.cs.cmu.edu) Received: (from nlanza@localhost) by dzerzhinsky.rem.cs.cmu.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4QK70m61414; Sat, 26 May 2001 16:07:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from nlanza) To: Andrew Reilly Cc: gjb@gbch.net, jandrese@mitre.org, float@firedrake.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison References: <20010525044848.08CAC37B422@hub.freebsd.org> From: Nat Lanza Date: 26 May 2001 16:06:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20010525044848.08CAC37B422@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: Lines: 36 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Reilly writes: > Where in open(1) does it specify a limit on the number of files > permissible in a directory? The closest that it comes, that I can > see is: Well, read(2) doesn't tell you not to do your IO one character at a time, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. The point here is not interface definitions, it's efficiency. Nobody's saying you shouldn't be _allowed_ to put thousands and thousands of files in a directory if you like. They're just saying that you shouldn't expect it to be fast. Similarly, you can read data one byte at a time if you like, but you shouldn't expect that to be fast either. Pointing to manpages and saying you weren't warned that a particular approach is slow is a really weak defense. Do you expect cliffs to have little "If you drive off this cliff, you will die" warning signs on them? If a documented part of the API simply did not work, then you'd have a point. Instead, what we have is a case where a method of storing files that most people reasonably expect to be slow is in fact slow. The folks who've pointed out the /a/a/aardvark solution are right -- directory hashing is a well-known solution to this problem. It isn't a hack at all. No matter what method you use for storing directories, larger directories are going to be slower to use than smaller ones, and hashing filenames fixes that. --nat -- nat lanza ----------------------------------- there are no whole truths; magus@cs.cmu.edu ---------------------------- all truths are half-truths http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~magus/ --------------- -- alfred north whitehead To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 13:35:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-60.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEFFA37B424 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 13:35:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C3BE366B21; Sat, 26 May 2001 13:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:35:21 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Munish Chopra Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: odd empty mails from owner-freebsd-hackers Message-ID: <20010526133521.A59933@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010526141507.A13617@messiah.megadeb.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010526141507.A13617@messiah.megadeb.org>; from chopra@runbox.com on Sat, May 26, 2001 at 02:15:07PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, May 26, 2001 at 02:15:07PM +0200, Munish Chopra wrote: > Is anyone else getting a bunch of empty mails from > owner-freebsd-hackers? They look something like this: >=20 > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:02:31 +0200 >=20 > All that ever changes is date and time...any explanation for this? Check that they're actually from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; there are lots of broken mail systems out there which sometimes like to re-send mangled (or duplicate) copies of emails. Kris --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7EBOIWry0BWjoQKURAkAUAKC8yHpwLXb2L2MOExbf31SvOBIQkgCg4HSI 5fNi7k9nS/PCwKiLumWDUN8= =KX2P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 13:50:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FEB937B422 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 13:50:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg@root.com) Received: (from dg@localhost) by root.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f4QKiav39295; Sat, 26 May 2001 13:44:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:44:36 -0700 From: David Greenman To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: panics with 4GB on an IBM xSeries 330 Message-ID: <20010526134436.W19893@nexus.root.com> References: <200105251835.LAA11814@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200105251835.LAA11814@usr05.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 06:35:29PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >] We have a 4GB IBM xSeries 330 (1GHz PIII) and I can't get 4.3-RELEASE to >] boot on it. I did set NKPT to 64 as suggested by DG about a week ago on >] this list (this is also the reason I take this to -hackers rather than >] -questions). Still, I get >] panic: swap_pager_swap_init: swap_zone=NULL >] when booting (both the modified kernel and GENERIC behave the same). An >] identical machine with 1GB works like a champ. Anything else other than >] NKPT I should set? > >Personally, I think NKPT is a red herring. I am running several >4G machines with the default of 32, and have not had problems >(any problems will be automatically fixed for you by grow_kernel()). NKPT is the initial number of kernel page table pages. It has to be large enough so that all of the initial/bootstrap VM system data structures can be allocated. pmap_growkernel() doesn't work during this time since the VM system has not be initialized yet. The data structures can be quite large and the default of NKPT isn't large enough and a panic will result in the bootstrap prior to the device initialization. This was the problem in the first 4G problem report a few days ago, but is apparantly not the problem in the most recently reported problem. -DG David Greenman Co-founder, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org President, TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 14:30:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nebula.cybercable.fr (d189.dhcp212-126.cybercable.fr [212.198.126.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6912A37B422 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 14:30:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mux@qualys.com) Received: (from mux@localhost) by nebula.cybercable.fr (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4QLU4d18493 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 26 May 2001 23:30:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mux) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 23:30:04 +0200 From: Maxime Henrion To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Help to port brltty to BSD Message-ID: <20010526233003.C687@nebula.cybercable.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all, I have been discussing on IRC with a blind people who can't use BSD because ``brltty'', the software used to render the console tty with braille displays, doesn't appear to work on BSD. I have been experiencing troubles while trying to compile it and moreover, it uses ``/dev/vcsa0'' to get snapshots of the tty. This is a Linux-only device. However, to run on other Unices (as the author say), it can use the sysV shared memory to obtain this information by reading into ``screen'' program memory segment. Unfortunately, this is obviously not as good as with using tty snapshots as the user has to launch ``screen'' first before having access to his box, and unless we one day use screen in the install (which I doubt ;) the user will have to get help from a valid person to install BSD. I have seen that recently, a snapshot capability has been introduced in syscons in -CURRENT. Can this help to port this software ? I've thought of using snoop ttys but I'm not sure if they provide all the needed functionality. Finally, I'm running out of time these days and if someone has a bit more time free, I would really appreciate help with porting this software as it seems to me that giving access to BSD for blind people is more important than most, if not all, other features. Here is the homepage of brltty : http://www.cam.org/~nico/brltty/ Thanks, Maxime PS: If anyone has heard of any other program similar working on BSD, don't hesitate to flame me ;-) ! -- Don't be fooled by cheap finnish imitations ; BSD is the One True Code Key fingerprint = F9B6 1D5A 4963 331C 88FC CA6A AB50 1EF2 8CBE 99D6 Public Key : http://www.epita.fr/~henrio_m/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 14:38:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (mass.dis.org [216.240.45.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20A8E37B422 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 14:38:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4QLlA401869; Sat, 26 May 2001 14:47:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200105262147.f4QLlA401869@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Maxime Henrion Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Help to port brltty to BSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 26 May 2001 23:30:04 +0200." <20010526233003.C687@nebula.cybercable.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 14:47:10 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hello all, > > > I have been discussing on IRC with a blind people who can't use BSD > because ``brltty'', the software used to render the console tty with > braille displays, doesn't appear to work on BSD. I have been > experiencing troubles while trying to compile it and moreover, it uses > ``/dev/vcsa0'' to get snapshots of the tty. This is a Linux-only device. It's always been possible to memory-map the display area; Sean Fagan wrote an amusing little hack a while back which bubble-sorted the screen; you might ask him for the code if you're interested. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 15: 6:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aaz.links.ru (aaz.links.ru [193.125.152.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7CD937B423 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 15:06:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babolo@links.ru) Received: (from babolo@localhost) by aaz.links.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA20932; Sun, 27 May 2001 02:08:06 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <200105262208.CAA20932@aaz.links.ru> Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010526192516.A2573@gurney.reilly.home> from "Andrew Reilly" at "May 26, 1 07:25:16 pm" To: areilly@bigpond.net.au (Andrew Reilly) Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 02:08:06 +0400 (MSD) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: .@babolo.ru MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Reilly writes: > On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 08:49:21PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > There is _no_ performance problem with "the existing implementation", > > if you treat "postgres" as "the existing implementation"; it will do > > what you want, quickly and effectively, for millions of record keys. > > Does postgres make a good mail archive database? Can it handle Yes, I look at it to replace my messarge. > arbitrary record lengths? It couldn't the last time I looked at > it. Now (7.1) it can. -- @BABOLO http://links.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 15:12:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aaz.links.ru (aaz.links.ru [193.125.152.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B6AC37B423 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 15:12:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babolo@links.ru) Received: (from babolo@localhost) by aaz.links.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA21056; Sun, 27 May 2001 02:14:10 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <200105262214.CAA21056@aaz.links.ru> Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <20010526193723.B2573@gurney.reilly.home> from "Andrew Reilly" at "May 26, 1 07:37:23 pm" To: areilly@bigpond.net.au (Andrew Reilly) Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 02:14:10 +0400 (MSD) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: .@babolo.ru MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Reilly writes: .... > /usr/ports/distfiles on any of the mirrors probably contains > upwards of 5000 files too, and there is a strong likelyhood that > these will be accessed out-of-order by ports-makefile-driven > fetch requests. Oh! You point a good example! 0cicuta~(13)>/bin/ls /usr/ports/distfiles/ | wc 9672 9672 198244 -- @BABOLO http://links.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 15:42:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 032DC37B422 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 15:42:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4QMgTM05232 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 15:42:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B97380E; Sat, 26 May 2001 15:42:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: areilly@bigpond.net.au (Andrew Reilly), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: technical comparison In-Reply-To: <200105262214.CAA21056@aaz.links.ru> Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 15:42:29 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010526224229.B4B97380E@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG .@babolo.ru wrote: > Andrew Reilly writes: > .... > > /usr/ports/distfiles on any of the mirrors probably contains > > upwards of 5000 files too, and there is a strong likelyhood that > > these will be accessed out-of-order by ports-makefile-driven > > fetch requests. > Oh! > You point a good example! > 0cicuta~(13)>/bin/ls /usr/ports/distfiles/ | wc > 9672 9672 198244 .. Which is almost entirely stored in the name cache, which is hashed. Once you scan the directory for the first time, the entries are pre-inserted into the hash. This cache is very long lived and is quite effective at dealing with this sort of thing, especially if you have plenty of memory and have vfs.vmiodirenable=1 turned on. While it may not scale too well to directories with millions of files, it certainly deals well with tens of thousands of files. We have recently made improvements to the hashing algorithms to get better dispersion on small and iterative filenames, eg: 00, 01, 02 -> FF. It is not perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better than the false assumption that the linear search method is the usual case. Which is more expensive? Maintaining an on-disk hashed (or b+tree) directory format for *everything* or maintaining a simple low-cost format on disk with in-memory hashing for fast lookups? For the small directory case I suspect the FFS+namecache way is more cost effective. For the medium to large directory case (10,000 to 100,000 entries), I suspect the FFS+namecache method isn't too shabby, providing you are not starved for memory. For the insanely large cases - I dont want to think about :-). Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 17:27:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r26.bfm.org [216.127.220.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B6837B424 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 17:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4R0QGS00299 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:26:16 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:25:45 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Bizarre shutdown behavior Message-ID: <20010526192545.A275@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-Assembly-Language: http://int80h.org/ X-Web-Search: http://phonecowboy.master.com/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 4.3-20010525-STABLE FreeBSD 4.3-20010525-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yesterday I upgraded from FreeBSD 3.1 to 4.3-20010525-STABLE. I am very impressed by what I see, and would like to express both my thanks and my congratulations to all developers on a job well done. I do experience one bizarre thing, and would appreciate any input on what to change: Whenever I use either the shutdown or the reboot command, I get: Shutting down daemon processes: Modula-3No matching processes were found Working in auto mode Using interface: tun1 Warning: Add route failed: default already exists What is strange is that after the words "Working in auto mode" it dials up to my ISP, then hangs up, then prints the rest. Why is it trying to add route right before rebooting? This does not make any sense. I noticed a new file added by the install process, /etc/rc.shutdown . It contains, among other things, the following: # If there is a global system configuration file, suck it in. # if [ -r /etc/defaults/rc.conf ]; then . /etc/defaults/rc.conf source_rc_confs elif [ -r /etc/rc.conf ]; then . /etc/rc.conf fi Why is it "sucking in" rc.conf before shutting down? I think this may be the cause of the bizarre calls to my ISP right before shutting down (though, it does not call my ISP when it first starts up). What's going on, and how do I fix it? Adam -- Perfection is for neurotics To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 18:48:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gate.lustig.com (lustig.ne.mediaone.net [24.91.125.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D13437B424 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 18:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from barry@lustig.com) Received: (qmail 1876 invoked from network); 27 May 2001 01:50:15 -0000 Received: from gate.lustig.com (HELO lustig.com) (barry@205.246.2.242) by gate.lustig.com with SMTP; 27 May 2001 01:50:15 -0000 Message-ID: <3B105D56.1A637EF@lustig.com> Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 21:50:14 -0400 From: Barry Lustig Organization: Barry Lustig & Associates, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Valentin Nechayev Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Boot time memory issue References: <3B0858F9.1E483EEE@lustig.com> <20010525091937.B774@iv.nn.kiev.ua> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Valentin Nechayev wrote: > > Sun, May 20, 2001 at 19:53:29, barry (Barry Lustig) wrote about "Boot time memory issue": > > Do verbose boot (`boot -v') with large SC_HISTORY_SIZE (1000 at least, > 2000 at most), and after boot check for "SMAP ..." lines at the very > beginning of the kernel boot log at /dev/console. (They are not written > to log viewable with dmesg.) Another way is to use serial console. > With this SMAP lines one can say more concrete diagnosis. Here are the SMAP lines: SMAP type=01 base=00000000 00000000 len=00000000 0009f800 SMAP type=02 base=00000000 0009f800 len=00000000 00000800 SMAP type=02 base=00000000 000e8400 len=00000000 00017c00 SMAP type=01 base=00000000 00100000 len=00000000 13ef0000 SMAP type=03 base=00000000 13ff0000 len=00000000 0000f800 SMAP type=04 base=00000000 13fff800 len=00000000 00000800 SMAP type=02 base=00000000 fff80000 len=00000000 00080000 Too many holes in the physical address space, giving up > > > I was curious whether the memory limitation on the Sony VAIO Z505 > > machines was an actual hardware limitation or a marketing issue. I just > > tried adding a 256MB module to my machine. The BIOS seemed to mostly > > recognize it. > > It did see 320MB of RAM, but had problems when testing all of it. > > Current (from > > a couple of weeks ago) boots, but gives me: > > Too many holes in the physical address space, giving up > > > > and comes up showing 64MB of RAM. Is this something that can be worked > > around, or have I run up against an actual hardware limit on the > > machine? > > /netch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 18:53:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (mass.dis.org [216.240.45.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A10D537B423; Sat, 26 May 2001 18:53:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4R21o404244; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:01:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200105270201.f4R21o404244@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Barry Lustig Cc: Valentin Nechayev , current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Boot time memory issue In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 26 May 2001 21:50:14 EDT." <3B105D56.1A637EF@lustig.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:01:50 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Valentin Nechayev wrote: > > > > Sun, May 20, 2001 at 19:53:29, barry (Barry Lustig) wrote about "Boot time memory issue": > > > > Do verbose boot (`boot -v') with large SC_HISTORY_SIZE (1000 at least, > > 2000 at most), and after boot check for "SMAP ..." lines at the very > > beginning of the kernel boot log at /dev/console. (They are not written > > to log viewable with dmesg.) Another way is to use serial console. > > With this SMAP lines one can say more concrete diagnosis. > > Here are the SMAP lines: > > SMAP type=01 base=00000000 00000000 len=00000000 0009f800 > SMAP type=02 base=00000000 0009f800 len=00000000 00000800 > SMAP type=02 base=00000000 000e8400 len=00000000 00017c00 > SMAP type=01 base=00000000 00100000 len=00000000 13ef0000 > SMAP type=03 base=00000000 13ff0000 len=00000000 0000f800 > SMAP type=04 base=00000000 13fff800 len=00000000 00000800 > SMAP type=02 base=00000000 fff80000 len=00000000 00080000 > Too many holes in the physical address space, giving up Can you try changing the declaration of phys_avail at the top of sys/i386/i386/machdep.c from: vm_offset_t phys_avail[10]; to vm_offset_t phys_avail[100]; -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 19: 1:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gate.lustig.com (lustig.ne.mediaone.net [24.91.125.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F3D1837B423 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:01:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from barry@lustig.com) Received: (qmail 2161 invoked from network); 27 May 2001 02:03:35 -0000 Received: from gate.lustig.com (HELO lustig.com) (barry@205.246.2.242) by gate.lustig.com with SMTP; 27 May 2001 02:03:35 -0000 Message-ID: <3B106076.657BB1A9@lustig.com> Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 22:03:34 -0400 From: Barry Lustig Organization: Barry Lustig & Associates, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith Cc: Valentin Nechayev , current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Boot time memory issue References: <200105270201.f4R21o404244@mass.dis.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > > Here are the SMAP lines: > > > > SMAP type=01 base=00000000 00000000 len=00000000 0009f800 > > SMAP type=02 base=00000000 0009f800 len=00000000 00000800 > > SMAP type=02 base=00000000 000e8400 len=00000000 00017c00 > > SMAP type=01 base=00000000 00100000 len=00000000 13ef0000 > > SMAP type=03 base=00000000 13ff0000 len=00000000 0000f800 > > SMAP type=04 base=00000000 13fff800 len=00000000 00000800 > > SMAP type=02 base=00000000 fff80000 len=00000000 00080000 > > Too many holes in the physical address space, giving up > > Can you try changing the declaration of phys_avail at the top of > sys/i386/i386/machdep.c from: > > vm_offset_t phys_avail[10]; > > to > > vm_offset_t phys_avail[100]; > Did that and got the same error. I put a printf just before the pa_indx++ in machdep.c and watched it increment by 2's all the way up to 100. Any other ideas? barry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 19:41:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from earth.backplane.com (earth-nat-cw.backplane.com [208.161.114.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B88237B424 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:41:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@earth.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by earth.backplane.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) id f4R2fTv02170; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:41:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:41:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Dillon Message-Id: <200105270241.f4R2fTv02170@earth.backplane.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Tuning, security, firewall man pages up for review Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Great feedback, guys! Keep it coming! I've put the tuning, security, and firewall man pages up: http://apollo.backplane.com/FreeBSD/ http://apollo.backplane.com/FreeBSD/tuning.html http://apollo.backplane.com/FreeBSD/firewall.html http://apollo.backplane.com/FreeBSD/security.html Security is 'old', but since I'm working on these I'm accepting changes/requests for all three. We've already done a good round on tuning.html, keep the suggestions coming! I've added a new proposed 'firewall' man page. Right now it only covers IPFW based firewalls and NAT. Please feel free to email me suggestions, corrections, etc... I will commit tuning and security tonight and commit the firewall page tomorrow. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 20:15: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4461237B43F for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 20:14:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4R3Eu218218; Sat, 26 May 2001 22:14:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 22:14:56 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bizarre shutdown behavior Message-ID: <20010526221456.A15384@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20010526192545.A275@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20010526192545.A275@whizkidtech.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.18i X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (May 26), G. Adam Stanislav said: > Yesterday I upgraded from FreeBSD 3.1 to 4.3-20010525-STABLE. I am very > impressed by what I see, and would like to express both my thanks and my > congratulations to all developers on a job well done. > > I do experience one bizarre thing, and would appreciate any input on what > to change: Whenever I use either the shutdown or the reboot command, I get: > > Shutting down daemon processes: Modula-3No matching processes were found > Working in auto mode > Using interface: tun1 > Warning: Add route failed: default already exists > > What is strange is that after the words "Working in auto mode" it dials > up to my ISP, then hangs up, then prints the rest. Have you created any custom /usr/local/etc/rc.d/ scripts? 4.0 calls these on shutdown with the "stop" argument, so you can cleanly stop things like databases. If your scripts don't check for this, they will try to start up again. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 21:23: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizkidtech.net (r43.bfm.org [216.127.220.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C15A37B42C for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 21:22:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: (from adam@localhost) by whizkidtech.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4R4LYE00295 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 26 May 2001 23:21:34 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 23:20:53 -0500 From: "G. Adam Stanislav" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bizarre shutdown behavior Message-ID: <20010526232053.A279@whizkidtech.net> References: <20010526192545.A275@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20010526192545.A275@whizkidtech.net>; from adam@whizkidtech.net on Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:25:45PM -0500 Organization: Whiz Kid Technomagic X-Assembly-Language: http://int80h.org/ X-Web-Search: http://phonecowboy.master.com/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD whizkidtech.net 4.3-20010525-STABLE FreeBSD 4.3-20010525-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:25:45PM -0500, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: >What is strange is that after the words "Working in auto mode" it dials >up to my ISP, then hangs up, then prints the rest. I found what was causing it. I had a "ppp" command in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/start.sh . This was the right thing in 3.1, but not quite in 4.3. The problem disappeared when I wrapped it inside a case statement: case "$1" in start) ppp -auto myisp esac Cheers, Adam -- Where two fight, third one wins -- Slovak proverb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 26 21:37:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2C737B42C for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 21:37:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: from WhizKid (rh18.bfm.org [216.127.220.211]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org; Sat, 26 May 2001 23:41:37 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010526233521.00e9eeb0@mail85.pair.com> X-Sender: whizkid@mail85.pair.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 23:35:21 -0500 To: Dan Nelson From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: Bizarre shutdown behavior Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010526221456.A15384@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20010526192545.A275@whizkidtech.net> <20010526192545.A275@whizkidtech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 22:14 26-05-2001 -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: >Have you created any custom /usr/local/etc/rc.d/ scripts? 4.0 calls >these on shutdown with the "stop" argument, so you can cleanly stop >things like databases. If your scripts don't check for this, they will >try to start up again. Thanks, Dan. That's exactly what it was. I had a script there to start ppp in auto mode. Thanks again. Adam --- http://phonecowboy.com/registrar/twist/ finds a good domain for you and checks for its existence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message