From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 0: 2:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bumper.jellybaby.net (bumper.jellybaby.net [194.159.247.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95B8837B403 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 00:02:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simond@bumper.jellybaby.net) Received: (from simond@localhost) by bumper.jellybaby.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) id IAA23865; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 08:02:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from simond) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 08:02:20 +0100 From: simond@irrelevant.org To: Rich Morin Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: compatibility of UFS-partitioned FireWire drives Message-ID: <20010701080220.B23390@irrelevant.org> References: <754836544.20010630185133@morning.ru> <20010630140907.A947@ringworld.oblivion.bg> <1806975199.20010630192712@morning.ru> <15166.16657.406627.673835@guru.mired.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from rdm@cfcl.com on Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 02:59:57PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 02:59:57PM -0700, Rich Morin wrote: > I have a luggable FireWire drive which I am considering using for > backups and data mobility on a variety of machines and operating > systems (roughly, *BSD, Mac OS X, and (eventually) Linux). > > I'd welcome any suggestions as to things to do or avoid. I'd rather > not get a ways down the road and discover that I need to repartition > the disc for some obscure reason... Unfortunately there's no FireWire support in FreeBSD yet, but once there is I don't see why UFS partitions wouldn't work :) -- Simon Dick simond@irrelevant.org "Why do I get this urge to go bowling everytime I see Tux?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 2: 0:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sneakerz.org (sneakerz.org [216.33.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F23E37B401; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 02:00:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@sneakerz.org) Received: by sneakerz.org (Postfix, from userid 1092) id 7AD675D010; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 04:00:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 04:00:34 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: "Michael C . Wu" , freebsd-smp@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quick question: AIO / SMP / process-based threading Message-ID: <20010701040034.G84523@sneakerz.org> References: <20010630222829.E84523@sneakerz.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net on Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 03:51:10AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * E.B. Dreger [010630 22:51] wrote: > > Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:28:29 -0500 > > From: Alfred Perlstein > > > > Can you point to some specific PRs about this or crashdumps before > > (or at least while) taking pot shots at the AIO implementation? > > In the mean time, until somebody can substantiate that claim... is AIO SMP > safe? I see that aiocb.aio_buf is declared as "volatile", so I would > presume so. > > I just want to be sure that, if an aio call runs on one CPU, another CPU > can access *aio_buf and be 100% certain that the data are coherent. > It should be, if you experience any problems please let us know. > aio_buf = mmap() using MAP_HASSEMAPHORE -- good idea, bad idea, pointless? Pointless I think. -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? And why do my programs keep crashing in it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 2:14:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from roulen-gw.morning.ru (roulen-gw.morning.ru [195.161.98.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E03737B401; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 02:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from poige@morning.ru) Received: from NIC1 (seven.ld [192.168.11.7]) by roulen-gw.morning.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0784D8; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:14:33 +0800 (KRAST) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:14:49 +0800 From: Igor Podlesny X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.52 Beta/7) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Organization: Morning Network X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <24652858.20010701171449@morning.ru> To: Mike Meyer Cc: Peter Pentchev , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[4]: Flight of the rat, living wreck..... In-Reply-To: <15166.16657.406627.673835@guru.mired.org> References: <754836544.20010630185133@morning.ru> <20010630140907.A947@ringworld.oblivion.bg> <1806975199.20010630192712@morning.ru> <15166.16657.406627.673835@guru.mired.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Igor Podlesny types: >> >> // so here we start looking through the queue >> >> >> >> > ia != NULL >> >> >> >> // sanity (I'd have written just (ia)) >> >> > Yep, just (ia) would have worked, but style(9) mandates (ia != NULL), >> > which is much easier to understand >> >> :) >> >> Don't want to dispute about the 'right' style :), but :)) >> I prefer to say (read, write) > For FreeBSD code work, there is a "right" style. hm. I wonder when ppl would be reading the thread before posting to it? 1) it's _off-topic_. my original letter was about IPFW's error, not about the 9 style. 2) the same words Peter Pentchev had earlier said, so do you like repeating? p.s. I'm starting to regret about posting to the lists. Instead of understanding the problem ppl tend to speak about a style. What a madness... -- Igor mailto:poige@morning.ru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 2:19:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from roulen-gw.morning.ru (roulen-gw.morning.ru [195.161.98.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 834FD37B403; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 02:19:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from poige@morning.ru) Received: from NIC1 (seven.ld [192.168.11.7]) by roulen-gw.morning.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 988B0D8; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:19:12 +0800 (KRAST) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:19:28 +0800 From: Igor Podlesny X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.52 Beta/7) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Organization: Morning Network X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <34931950.20010701171928@morning.ru> To: Wes Peters Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Flight of the rat, living wreck..... In-Reply-To: <3B3E0D93.79738728@softweyr.com> References: <754836544.20010630185133@morning.ru> <3B3E0D93.79738728@softweyr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Igor Podlesny wrote: >> > /* >> > * Macro for finding the interface (ifnet structure) corresponding to one >> > * of our IP addresses. >> > */ >> > #define INADDR_TO_IFP(addr, ifp) \ >> > /* struct in_addr addr; */ \ >> > /* struct ifnet *ifp; */ \ >> > { \ >> > register struct in_ifaddr *ia; \ >> > \ >> > for (ia = in_ifaddrhead.tqh_first; \ >> >> // so here we start looking through the queue >> >> > ia != NULL >> >> // sanity (I'd have written just (ia)) >> >> > && ((ia->ia_ifp->if_flags & IFF_POINTOPOINT)? \ >> >> // hm. special case if the interface is PTP >> >> > IA_DSTSIN(ia):IA_SIN(ia))->sin_addr.s_addr != (addr).s_addr; \ >> >> // so it is like: if it is PTP, then we using DST address in comparison >> // with addr.s_addr >> >> // it is the time I started to ask myself why it is so? why we're (ok, >> // they're) checking for remote ip-address if the head comment >> // says: >> // * Macro for finding the interface (ifnet structure) corresponding to one >> // * of our IP addresses. >> // ^^^ >> // ^^^ > With point-to-point connections, the address at the opposite end of the > connection is always used in the route table. When the interface is > created as a point-to-point interface, a route is automatically entered > from the local address to the opposite address. nothing to say agains this... but which relation to the ipfw problem you've found here? > The "corresponding" > in the comment at the beginning of the macro is interpreted rather loosely. What do you mean by that? :) p.s. The idea of my letter wasn't in incorrectly written on interpreted code comment header, but in IPFW's 'me' broken implementation. -- Igor mailto:poige@morning.ru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 2:29:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5896B37B405 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 02:29:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@mail.cicely.de) Received: from mail.cicely.de (cicely20 [10.1.1.22]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f619T1671162; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:29:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by mail.cicely.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f619TWP22271; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:29:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:29:26 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: simond@irrelevant.org Cc: Rich Morin , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: compatibility of UFS-partitioned FireWire drives Message-ID: <20010701112926.A22242@cicely20.cicely.de> References: <754836544.20010630185133@morning.ru> <20010630140907.A947@ringworld.oblivion.bg> <1806975199.20010630192712@morning.ru> <15166.16657.406627.673835@guru.mired.org> <20010701080220.B23390@irrelevant.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010701080220.B23390@irrelevant.org>; from simond@irrelevant.org on Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 08:02:20AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 08:02:20AM +0100, simond@irrelevant.org wrote: > On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 02:59:57PM -0700, Rich Morin wrote: > > I have a luggable FireWire drive which I am considering using for > > backups and data mobility on a variety of machines and operating > > systems (roughly, *BSD, Mac OS X, and (eventually) Linux). > > > > I'd welcome any suggestions as to things to do or avoid. I'd rather > > not get a ways down the road and discover that I need to repartition > > the disc for some obscure reason... > > Unfortunately there's no FireWire support in FreeBSD yet, but once there > is I don't see why UFS partitions wouldn't work :) Because Partition tables are different and UFS is byte order dependend. Mac OS X Platforms have a different byte order than FreeBSD Platforms so it won't work in this case. You might have a chance sharing i386 FreeBSD with i386 linux or ppc NetBSD with ppc Max OS X - but keep in mind that you can't use OS dependend extensions to UFS and writing may be unhealthy. -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de Usergroup info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 3:51:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3377E37B406; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 03:51:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@mail.cicely.de) Received: from mail.cicely.de (cicely20 [10.1.1.22]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f61Aow671409; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:51:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by mail.cicely.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f61ApMm22390; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:51:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:51:16 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: Alfred Perlstein , "Michael C . Wu" , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quick question: AIO / SMP / process-based threading Message-ID: <20010701125116.B22242@cicely20.cicely.de> References: <20010630222829.E84523@sneakerz.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net on Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 03:51:10AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 03:51:10AM +0000, E.B. Dreger wrote: > > Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:28:29 -0500 > > From: Alfred Perlstein > > > > Can you point to some specific PRs about this or crashdumps before > > (or at least while) taking pot shots at the AIO implementation? > > In the mean time, until somebody can substantiate that claim... is AIO SMP > safe? I see that aiocb.aio_buf is declared as "volatile", so I would > presume so. Volatile isn't an inter CPU thing and handles only register caching created by the compiler but not memory caching which is done out of the compilers control. If you want inter CPU chorency you have to handle both. > I just want to be sure that, if an aio call runs on one CPU, another CPU > can access *aio_buf and be 100% certain that the data are coherent. If you setup *aiobuf from the same executing context as you start the aio_call you will be save. That means if the kernel decides to do the work behind using another CPU it has to enshure coherency. As long as the aio_ call is in progress you shouldn't modify the *aiobuf anyway so that's not an issue. -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de Usergroup info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 5:54:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from segfault.kiev.ua (segfault.kiev.ua [193.193.193.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F1C37B401 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 05:54:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netch@iv.nn.kiev.ua) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by segfault.kiev.ua (8) with UUCP id PUW32994; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:54:13 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch@iv.nn.kiev.ua) Received: (from netch@localhost) by iv.nn.kiev.ua (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f61Cf2K00994; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:41:02 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:41:02 +0300 From: Valentin Nechayev To: Len Conrad Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern.maxproc Message-ID: <20010701154102.A376@iv.nn.kiev.ua> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010630174654.03c870c8@mail.Go2France.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010630174654.03c870c8@mail.Go2France.com>; from LConrad@Go2France.com on Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 05:49:27PM +0200 X-42: On Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 17:49:27, LConrad (Len Conrad) wrote about "kern.maxproc": > I need about 1000 processes for a high-volume mail gateway. I'm already > getting errors in peak periods with the default maxproc of 530. > > It seems I can't set this in loader.conf, as I can other read-only params. > > Do I have to install the source and recompile? No, put it to /etc/sysctl.conf. /netch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 5:55:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from segfault.kiev.ua (segfault.kiev.ua [193.193.193.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD8137B401; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 05:55:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netch@iv.nn.kiev.ua) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by segfault.kiev.ua (8) with UUCP id PVB32996; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:54:46 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch@iv.nn.kiev.ua) Received: (from netch@localhost) by iv.nn.kiev.ua (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f61CnX801110; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:49:33 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:49:33 +0300 From: Valentin Nechayev To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: Terry Lambert , Chris Costello , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libc_r locking... why? Message-ID: <20010701154933.B376@iv.nn.kiev.ua> References: <3B3C3346.E5496485@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 03:19:47PM +0000 X-42: On Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 15:19:47, eddy+public+spam (E.B. Dreger) wrote about "Re: libc_r locking... why?": > Running processes on multiple CPUs is one goal. > > [ libc_r locks don't assert "lock", not MP-safe ] > > So the "lock" prefix is the only way to enforce cache coherency? > Do you have handy a good reference on IPIs, other than the kernel > APIC code (and, of course, Google and NorthernLight searches)? You say about i386 architecture, don't you? All current and former processors has AFAIK strict write ordering, and cache coherency is provided for all data. If lock is obtained, it means that all previous data is written successfully and caches of other processors are notified for your changes. Use locks and don't worry for cache coherency, it is already done. > Good to know, but, I'm not using libc_r... I was looking at > existing code to help me double-check mine as I go. I'm > synchronizing processes with a "giant lock" token that each > process cooperatively passes to the next... to simplify: Did you check your code with some proven to be working between processes, e.g. SysV IPC semaphores? /netch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 5:55:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from segfault.kiev.ua (segfault.kiev.ua [193.193.193.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B96937B405; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 05:55:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netch@iv.nn.kiev.ua) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by segfault.kiev.ua (8) with UUCP id PVH33005; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:55:21 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch@iv.nn.kiev.ua) Received: (from netch@localhost) by iv.nn.kiev.ua (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f61Cqun01162; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:52:56 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:52:56 +0300 From: Valentin Nechayev To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: Bernd Walter , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libc_r locking... why? Message-ID: <20010701155256.C376@iv.nn.kiev.ua> References: <20010629211818.A17309@cicely20.cicely.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 07:56:40PM +0000 X-42: On Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:56:40, eddy+public+spam (E.B. Dreger) wrote about "Re: libc_r locking... why?": > > A Token may not be enough because writes may be reordered. AFAIK it's false for i386 architecture. Please correct me if needed. > Here is where I want to learn more about cache coherency, inter-processor > interrupts, and APIC programming. I'd imagine that the latter two are > lower-level than I'd be using, but I still want to know the "how and why" > beneath the scenes. Did you try to read MP chipsets white papers? /netch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 7: 7:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8605137B403; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 07:07:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@mail.cicely.de) Received: from mail.cicely.de (cicely20 [10.1.1.22]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f61E7H672239; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:07:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by mail.cicely.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f61E7it22706; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:07:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:07:38 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: Valentin Nechayev Cc: "E.B. Dreger" , Bernd Walter , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libc_r locking... why? Message-ID: <20010701160738.A22683@cicely20.cicely.de> References: <20010629211818.A17309@cicely20.cicely.de> <20010701155256.C376@iv.nn.kiev.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010701155256.C376@iv.nn.kiev.ua>; from netch@iv.nn.kiev.ua on Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 03:52:56PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 03:52:56PM +0300, Valentin Nechayev wrote: > Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 19:56:40, eddy+public+spam (E.B. Dreger) wrote about "Re: libc_r locking... why?": > > > > A Token may not be enough because writes may be reordered. > > AFAIK it's false for i386 architecture. Please correct me if needed. In -currents NOTEs I found this: # CPU_DISABLE_5X86_LSSER disables load store serialize (i.e. enables # reorder). This option should not be used if you use memory mapped # I/O device(s). A good sign that it may be at least possible on some CPUs. OK that's not an MP capable CPU. What you need is an x86 guru or asume worst which will be the best thing anyway - otherwise you can't use it on other machines and sometimes programms get very old. I also don't know what the following is: # CPU_WT_ALLOC enables write allocation on Cyrix 6x86/6x86MX and AMD # K5/K6/K6-2 cpus. > > Here is where I want to learn more about cache coherency, inter-processor > > interrupts, and APIC programming. I'd imagine that the latter two are > > lower-level than I'd be using, but I still want to know the "how and why" > > beneath the scenes. > > Did you try to read MP chipsets white papers? I can't say very much about coherency problems on x86 but I can say for shure that you have to worry about this on every other MP platform including IA64. -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de Usergroup info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 8:53:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB32237B405; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 08:53:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f61FqlO01273; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:52:47 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:52:47 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: Bernd Walter Cc: Valentin Nechayev , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libc_r locking... why? In-Reply-To: <20010701160738.A22683@cicely20.cicely.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:07:38 +0200 > From: Bernd Walter > In -currents NOTEs I found this: > # CPU_DISABLE_5X86_LSSER disables load store serialize (i.e. enables > # reorder). This option should not be used if you use memory mapped > # I/O device(s). > > A good sign that it may be at least possible on some CPUs. > OK that's not an MP capable CPU. This is an encouraging starting point... at least the issue is similar. It's also in 4.3-R, so I can grep kernel source. > What you need is an x86 guru or asume worst which will be the best > thing anyway - otherwise you can't use it on other machines and > sometimes programms get very old. I thought that one had to assert "lock" to guarantee cache coherency... an ugly hack would be to movl (%pagebase,%index,1),%eax lock movl %eax,(%pagebase,%index,1) for every cache line in a page. Ugly and slow... I'd much rather find out if there's a way to tell the chipset "flush all pending writes in this block, and ensure that both CPUs have the same view". > I also don't know what the following is: > # CPU_WT_ALLOC enables write allocation on Cyrix 6x86/6x86MX and AMD > # K5/K6/K6-2 cpus. Hmmmm. Being concerned about x86 SMP, I've overlooked anything non-Intel. Might be worth checking out what's there... I've oft learned what I wanted via an indirect route. > > Did you try to read MP chipsets white papers? No. I guess that I can give that a shot. > I can't say very much about coherency problems on x86 but I can > say for shure that you have to worry about this on every other MP > platform including IA64. Even if it's a non-issue on x86, I'd rather use macros to insert proper code on ia64, axp (if I ever port to that), and go to nothing on x86 (if that is indeed the correct behavior). Looks like I need to do some digging on bus snooping, cache coherency, read/write reordering, MTRRs, and APICs. :-) Eddy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. EverQuick Internet Division Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita/(Inter)national Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: A Trap To: blacklist@brics.com Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to , or you are likely to be blocked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 8:56:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from D00015.dialonly.kemerovo.su (www2.svzserv.kemerovo.su [213.184.65.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534CB37B405 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eugen@D00015.dialonly.kemerovo.su) Received: (from eugen@localhost) by D00015.dialonly.kemerovo.su (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f61Frmu05434 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:53:48 +0800 (KRAST) (envelope-from eugen) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:53:48 +0800 From: Eugene Grosbein To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: libvgl Message-ID: <20010701235348.A5400@grosbein.pp.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! Will switching of virtual consoles via keyboard work for application using libvgl's keyboard mode VGL_CODEKEYS? It seems that the process receives codes for 'ALT pressed', 'F1 pressed', 'F1 released', 'Alt released' but no signal USR1 used by libvgl. The man page VGLInit(3) does not cover this situation. My system is FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE Eugene Grosbein P.S. Please CC me when replying. Thank you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 9:21:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from saturn.cs.uml.edu (saturn.cs.uml.edu [129.63.8.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CD4837B405 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:21:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acahalan@saturn.cs.uml.edu) Received: (from acahalan@localhost) by saturn.cs.uml.edu (8.11.0/8.11.2) id f61GLAp388837; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107011621.f61GLAp388837@saturn.cs.uml.edu> From: "Albert D. Cahalan" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: ticso@mail.cicely.de, simond@irrelevant.org, rdm@cfcl.com Subject: Re: compatibility of UFS-partitioned FireWire drives Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bernd Walter writes: >On Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 08:02:20AM +0100, simond@irrelevant.org wrote: >> On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 02:59:57PM -0700, Rich Morin wrote: >>> I have a luggable FireWire drive which I am considering using for >>> backups and data mobility on a variety of machines and operating >>> systems (roughly, *BSD, Mac OS X, and (eventually) Linux). >>> >>> I'd welcome any suggestions as to things to do or avoid. >>> I'd rather not get a ways down the road and discover that >>> I need to repartition the disc for some obscure reason... >> >> Unfortunately there's no FireWire support in FreeBSD yet, but >> once there is I don't see why UFS partitions wouldn't work :) > > Because Partition tables are different and UFS is byte order > dependend. Mac OS X Platforms have a different byte order than > FreeBSD Platforms so it won't work in this case. You might have > a chance sharing i386 FreeBSD with i386 linux or ppc NetBSD > with ppc Max OS X - but keep in mind that you can't use > OS dependend extensions to UFS and writing may be unhealthy. Any Linux box can share with most anything. Byte order is not a problem. Mac and FreeBSD partition tables work. Supported UFS variants are: old old format of ufs default value, supported os read-only 44bsd used in FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD supported os read-write sun used in SunOS (Solaris) supported as read-write sunx86 used in SunOS for Intel (Solarisx86) supported as read-write nextstep used in NextStep supported as read-only nextstep-cd used for NextStep CDROMs (block_size == 2048) supported as read-only openstep used in OpenStep supported as read-only hp used in HP-UX (confusingly called "hfs" by HP) supported as read-only So try the "44bsd" mount option on whatever partition MacOS X uses. (there might be an unused boot partition or some other odd thing) You can also use an unpartitioned disk if MacOS X and FooBSD will both be happy with that. Now about that byte order... Got the Linux box on a LAN with either of the others? Problem solved. If not, how do you like FAT filesystems? (use FAT32, and mount as "vfat" on the Linux box for long filenames) If you don't mind using command-line tools, you should be able to get "htools" or "hfstools" (forgot the name) for FreeBSD. This lets you access an HFS filesystem. The Linux box can mount HFS directly. You could also look into the Mac emulator called "Executer" from Ardi, which might run on FreeBSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 9:31:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C3337B401 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id n.109.209fe81 (4239) for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:31:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: <109.209fe81.2870aa5c@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:31:24 EDT Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 6/30/01 6:17:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nate@yogotech.com writes: > > I think you've missed the fact that the '486 solution requires an > > add-on board (priced at $80.) and the faster cpu solution doesnt. That > > adds a lot of margin to get a faster MB, more than enough to > > compensate for the board. > > Not necessarily. The upgraded motherboard also requires a faster > processor, and the two parts added together are almost certainly going > to be more than $80. > There is nothing more annoying than someone who argues subjects he clearly knows nothing about. You are way off on your pricing. Way off. A 633 Celeron is under 50. Q1 for petes sake. The cost difference would be less than $20. in quantity. It would be less than $80. Q1. Theres an old saying about being penny-wise and pound foolish. Using a 486 in todays networking and cost environment is just plain moronic. B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 10: 0:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tonnant.cnchost.com (tonnant.concentric.net [207.155.248.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA1137B401; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:00:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (adsl-209-204-185-216.sonic.net [209.204.185.216]) by tonnant.cnchost.com id NAA07500; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:00:19 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Message-ID: <200107011700.NAA07500@tonnant.cnchost.com> To: Wes Peters Cc: Ruslan Ermilov , Deepak Jain , net@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: fastforwarding? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:39:20 MDT." <3B3AB4F8.184A2EFE@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 10:00:19 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > What does the fastforwarding option do that the normal forwarding option > > doesn't? > The description there isn't very forthcoming. fastforwarding caches > the results of a route lookup for destination addresses that are not > on the local machine, and uses the cached route to short-circuit the > normal (relatively slow) route lookup process. The packet flows > directly from one layer2 input routine directly to the opposing > layer2 output routine without traversing the IP layer. You do have to look at the destination ip address so strictly speaking the cache belongs to the ip "layer". I haven't looked at this fastforwarding code but it likely complicates route adding/deleting at you have to look at it for *any* route add/delete. For example, for dest addr 1.2.3.4, you cached the result of route lookup (which may be 1.2.x.x/16) and now a route for 1.2.?.x/24 is added. You may have to invalidate the cache entry since the new route may have to be used. Similarly for deletes. Even the old single entry cache in the std 4.4bsd had/has a related bug. IMHO you are better off using a recent route lookup algorithm than messing with caches. The PATRICIA tree algorithm is what 33 years old now? There has been a lot of research done in this area in the last few years. On a modern machine with some of the recent algorithms you should be able to easily do a lookup in a just a few memory accesses. The changeover is not easy and quite pervasive in the networking code but long overdue. If anyone decides to do this, please make the changes so that any algorithm can be pluuged in. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 10:16: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7A837B407; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:16:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f61HFxm01978; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:15:59 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:15:59 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Resolved: AIO on SMP / locking / libc_r In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (Responding to myself and merging two threads) > Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:52:47 +0000 (GMT) > From: E.B. Dreger > > I can't say very much about coherency problems on x86 but I can > > say for shure that you have to worry about this on every other MP > > platform including IA64. > > Even if it's a non-issue on x86, I'd rather use macros to insert proper > code on ia64, axp (if I ever port to that), and go to nothing on x86 (if > that is indeed the correct behavior). > > Looks like I need to do some digging on bus snooping, cache coherency, > read/write reordering, MTRRs, and APICs. :-) Once pointed in the right direction, a little Google searching turned up a message from three years ago today, by none other than Terry Lambert. SMP synchronization is automatic, and Intel supports full MESI (modified, exclusive, shared, and invalid) coherence. Terry also mentioned that MMAP_HASSEMAPHORE was useful on MEI architecture to flag the need for coherency. MMAP_HASSEMAPHORE is apparently a NOP flag on the x86. Pointless on x86, but mandatory on MEI architectures. Netch clarified off-list (and others on-list?) that memory IO is strictly in-order on the x86. I think that I have a handle on things now. I'll try AIO on pages with MMAP_HASSEMAPHORE set (pointless now but no-cost insurance for other architectures), and handle locking between processes as I have been. If nothing else, it gives me a handy string for which to grep in my code. ;-) Not yet sure how to handle reordering... If ia64 reorders, I guess that I'll worry about that when FreeBSD runs on ia64. :-) Thanks to all for putting up with this "SMP newbie". Hopefully this post will help summarize everything for any lurkers who were scratching their heads in the same way that I was. Thanks again to everyone for your help, Eddy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. EverQuick Internet Division Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita/(Inter)national Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: A Trap To: blacklist@brics.com Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to , or you are likely to be blocked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 10:34:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1429737B403 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:34:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@lanl.gov) Received: from white.acl.lanl.gov (white.acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.100]) by acl.lanl.gov (8.11.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id f61HYEp3739910 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:34:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11890 invoked by uid 3499); 1 Jul 2001 17:34:14 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 17:34:14 -0000 Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:34:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Ronald G Minnich X-X-Sender: To: Subject: cluster software: consider bproc Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For those of you still looking at cluster stuff: I'd take a close look at www.scyld.com and see what they have. The key piece is bproc, which is now a sourceforge open source project set up by Erik Hendriks. You might want to look at bproc and see if that API could be implemented in FreeBSD. The Scyld cluster model results in clean, easily managed clusters. I've just brought up a 128-node Alpha cluster here with Scyld. You set up the front end and you're done. Even more fun, we're booting the first level out of FLASH via LinuxBIOS. I'd still like to see FreeBSD boot out of flash too, but don't have the time -- I'd be happy to work with interested parties though. ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 12:27:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mugwump.hstn.tensor.pgs.com (mugwump.hstn.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.92.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9170337B403 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:27:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@hstn.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from hstn.tensor.pgs.com (shocking@localhost) by mugwump.hstn.tensor.pgs.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f61JRYP25655 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 14:27:35 -0500 Message-Id: <200107011927.f61JRYP25655@mugwump.hstn.tensor.pgs.com> X-Authentication-Warning: mugwump.hstn.tensor.pgs.com: shocking owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3 01/15/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: PVFS and FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 14:27:34 -0500 From: Steve Hocking Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm looking at PVFS (Parallel Virtual FileSystem) from clemson.edu (see http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/als2000/full_papers/carn s/carns_html/ for a some blurb on it) for use on the Linux clusters at work. I was wondering if anyone else had looked at it and tried porting it to FreeBSD. The userland lib and daemon should be straightforward enough, it's just the kernel module that could be tricky. Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 13:39:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs132140.pp.htv.fi (cs132140.pp.htv.fi [213.243.132.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEE9E37B401 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:39:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jau@cs132140.pp.htv.fi) Received: (from jau@localhost) by cs132140.pp.htv.fi (8.9.3/8.9.3/JAU-2.2) id XAA11434 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:39:39 +0300 (EEST) Message-Id: <200107012039.XAA11434@cs132140.pp.htv.fi> Subject: pty master and testing for write using select() To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:39:39 +0300 (EET DST) Reply-To: jau@iki.fi From: jau@iki.fi (Jukka A. Ukkonen) Latin-Date: Duminice I Iulie a.d. MMI Organization: Private person OS-Platform: FreeBSD 3.5.1-RELEASE i386 Phone: +358-9-6215280 (home) Content-Conversion: prohibited X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25+pgp] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all! Sorry if this is a wrong forum for this sort of mail. I just did not know any other forum that might have been a better match. I tried using select() to test a pty master for readiness for writing. If done twice without any I/O in between the calls to select() the latter one blocked even when the timeout value was specified as a timeval {0, 0}. Even when it did not block the pty master seemed to be willing to receive input until the pty buffer overflowed (the first call to select()). Test e.g. socket localhost chargen | testprog to see overflowed input being dropped. The 'testprog' should be a process opening a pty and forking a child process to read the pty slave and echo everything back. I am sort of puzzled about this. Should the write test using select() work at all for a pty master? If it should work, it actually might not - apparently. And if it should not, what is the point? I cannot see any obvious reason why the pty master were somehow a special case among different communication devices like pipes and sockets in this respect. As far as I can tell the following quote from the termios manual page implies that it has probably been intentional that there is no way to know in advance when there is space in the downstream buffer of the pty. Each terminal device file has associated with it an input queue, into which incoming data is stored by the system before being read by a pro- cess. The system imposes a limit, {MAX_INPUT}, on the number of bytes that may be stored in the input queue. The behavior of the system when this limit is exceeded depends on the setting of the IMAXBEL flag in the termios c_iflag. If this flag is set, the terminal is sent an ASCII BEL character each time a character is received while the input queue is full. Otherwise, the input queue is flushed upon receiving the charac- ter. I think the pseudo terminal master would benefit from an input option to make it correctly report it's writeability status instead of simply flushing the clist. If the above mentioned IMAXBEL should do exactly this, it is my current belief that then the select() call does not properly report the true status, because non-blocking writes still seem to return errno == EAGAIN ("resource temporarily unavailable"), though the select() call with zero timeout might block. Even the TIOCOUTQ ioctl() seems not to be much of help when trying to find out whether the downward pty buffer might have any space available because it persistently returns 0. Apparently it works for the upstream buffer only. So, some other alternative way to avoid overflowing the downward pty buffer would be very useful. Cheers, // jau .--- ..- -.- -.- .- .- .-.-.- ..- -.- -.- --- -. . -. / Jukka A. Ukkonen, Mawit Ltd, Finland /__ M.Sc. (sw-eng & cs) (Phone) +358-400-606-671 / Internet: Jukka.Ukkonen@Mawit.Fi (Home) +358-9-6215-280 / Internet: ukkonen@nic.funet.fi v Internet: jau@iki.fi + + + + My opinions are mine and mine alone, not my employers. + + + + To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 13:41:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.174]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F22B537B401; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:41:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from n_hibma@webweaving.org) Received: from modem-94.apanonar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.117.94] helo=heather.plazza.uk) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15Gnz3-0004hH-00; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:38:21 +0100 Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:39:32 +0100 (BST) From: Nick Hibma X-X-Sender: To: j mckitrick Cc: , Subject: Re: disconnecting from detached zip drive In-Reply-To: <20010612122731.A81226@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Message-ID: <20010701213608.F5327-100000@heather.plazza.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Have a look at the umass driver. When I wrote the detach code I never managed to actually detach the SIM. It would panic on reattach. I never bothered to figure out why. What the driver does: When the module loads it does not immediatelly attach itself to CAM as a SIM as I might want to unload it. When it finds a device it wants to tell CAM about it registers the SIM, announces the device, and is ready to start servicing requests. On detach it only removes the drive from CAM and not the SIM. However, there is some code in there that shows how I *think* detaching the SIM should work. So there should be a starting point. Another example of a detachable SIM would be the AIC driver I believe. Ask Warner Losh, at imp@freebsd.org, he wrote the detach code for that driver I believe. I'd be very interested to hear about it, if you find a reliable solution. Nick On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, j mckitrick wrote: > > hi all, > > i'm working on turning the zip driver and all the ppbus devices into > modules. So far, i have the vpo (zip driver) detaching, but i have problems > when i reattach. > > In the initial attach() call, we allocate a tiny bit of memory for a device > controlling microsequence, and we call cam_sim_alloc(), xpt_bus_register(), > and then rescan the bus. If we fail, we call cam_simq_free() if the > xxx_alloc call failed, and we call cam_sim_free() if xxx_register() fails. > > In detach(), i am experimenting (!) and right now i free() the microsequence > (unrelated to cam) and call cam_sim_free(). > > Here is the problem: when i detach, everything looks fine. I attach() when i > reload the module, and the log message says it is now allocating device vpo0 > and vpo1. There is only supposed to be vpo0, of course. It also assigns > these as da1 and da2, instead of da0. Now, when i try to mount the drive, i > get a page fault in cam and/or mount, depending on what i did in detach(). > > What needs to be done to completely disconnect the zip drive from cam, so > that the new attachment looks like it is starting over from scratch? > > Jonathon > -- > Tech support: Try this. Arrange the parts in neat piles. Stand on your > chair until you can see over your cubicle walls. Now shout "Does anybody > know how to read a manual?" > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 14:11:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38EBF37B406; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 14:11:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=b4004fd9460c57e7fc99d9894ba5bdd5) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15GoZQ-0000Td-00; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 15:15:56 -0600 Message-ID: <3B3F930C.320CC3DC@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 15:15:56 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ruslan Ermilov Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Deepak Jain , net@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fastforwarding? References: <20010626093545.D49992@sunbay.com> <3B3AB4F8.184A2EFE@softweyr.com> <20010629112757.F91115@sunbay.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > BTW, Wes, I'm still waiting for a working example of an indirect route > with also indirect gateway. Any indirect route via the opposite end of a point-to-point connection. Right? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 14:48: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B703637B401; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 14:48:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=0d3067936644647a06e6a8eeb376984c) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15Gp92-0000Uy-00; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 15:52:44 -0600 Message-ID: <3B3F9BAC.782B8E00@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 15:52:44 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bakul Shah Cc: Ruslan Ermilov , Deepak Jain , net@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: fastforwarding? References: <200107011700.NAA07500@tonnant.cnchost.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bakul Shah wrote: > > IMHO you are better off using a recent route lookup algorithm > than messing with caches. The PATRICIA tree algorithm is > what 33 years old now? Not true. Any routing algorithm takes longer because they are by definition a "fuzzy match." The fastforward algorithm is not, it is a simple destination address lookup; the cached route is either there or it is not. Fast hashing algorithms are quite effective in locating the route if it has been cached. Routing switches usually speed up the lookup even further by using Content Addressable Memory to map the destination address to a cached route or interface pointer; it would be interesting to experiment with something like that in FreeBSD. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 17:25:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D30CD37B403 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:25:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f620PnU29799; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 18:25:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200107020025.f620PnU29799@harmony.village.org> To: "Joesh Juphland" Subject: Re: why not two ep pc-cards in one system ? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:31:58 MDT." References: Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:25:49 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message "Joesh Juphland" writes: : hostname pccardd[87]: No free configuration for card 3Com Corporation You need a second config line to the 3com entry. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 19: 4:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.itga.com.au (ns.itga.com.au [202.53.40.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81DFB37B401 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 19:04:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnb@itga.com.au) Received: from lightning.itga.com.au (lightning.itga.com.au [192.168.71.20]) by ns.itga.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA37211 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:04:34 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from gnb@itga.com.au) Received: from itga.com.au (lightning.itga.com.au [192.168.71.20]) by lightning.itga.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03221; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:03:19 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <200107020203.MAA03221@lightning.itga.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.4 05/15/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 From: Gregory Bond To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: tty/ioctl/device driver advice wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:03:19 +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [pls cc me I'm not normally on -hackers] I'm working on updating the istallion mulitport serial driver into -Stable. The existing driver occasionally does "return(-ENODEV);" from (functions called from) the device ioctl routine. The new driver that I am trying to fold in does "return ENODEV;". Any advice on which is correct? Is this a bug in istallion.c that has been there since day 1? (And any obvious way of discovering stuff like this other than asking?) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 19: 5:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nasu.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (nasu.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.128.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AE9037B405 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 19:05:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from nantai.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp by nasu.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.11.2/1.1.29.3/26Jan01-1134AM) id f6224Wd425934; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:04:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp by nantai.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.11.2/1.1.29.3/30Jan01-0241PM) id f6224VD375789; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:04:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:6VvpMfLCt/dd7tdexcFxN9PS1vbpAytd@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.43.7]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W/zodiac-May2000) with ESMTP id LAA23435; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:14:01 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200107020214.LAA23435@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Eugene Grosbein Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: libvgl In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:53:48 +0800." <20010701235348.A5400@grosbein.pp.ru> References: <20010701235348.A5400@grosbein.pp.ru> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:14:01 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG syscons dosn't automatically switch vtys if the keyboard is not in the XLATE mode. (Oh well, this isn't documented in vgl(3), *sigh*) In CODEKEYS and RAWKEYS modes, you need to initiate vty switching by yourself, by calling the ioctl VT_ACTIVATE when a key combination for vty switching is seen. Kazu >Will switching of virtual consoles via keyboard work >for application using libvgl's keyboard mode VGL_CODEKEYS? >It seems that the process receives codes for 'ALT pressed', 'F1 pressed', >'F1 released', 'Alt released' but no signal USR1 used by libvgl. >The man page VGLInit(3) does not cover this situation. >My system is FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE > >Eugene Grosbein > >P.S. Please CC me when replying. Thank you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 20:52:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A98837B406 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 20:52:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f623q9U30987; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:52:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200107020352.f623q9U30987@harmony.village.org> To: Gregory Bond Subject: Re: tty/ioctl/device driver advice wanted Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:03:19 +1000." <200107020203.MAA03221@lightning.itga.com.au> References: <200107020203.MAA03221@lightning.itga.com.au> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:52:09 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200107020203.MAA03221@lightning.itga.com.au> Gregory Bond writes: : The existing driver occasionally does "return(-ENODEV);" from (functions called Linux does that. : from) the device ioctl routine. The new driver that I am trying to fold in : does "return ENODEV;". That's correct for FreeBSD. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 21:23:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.itga.com.au (ns.itga.com.au [202.53.40.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DBED37B403 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:23:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnb@itga.com.au) Received: from lightning.itga.com.au (lightning.itga.com.au [192.168.71.20]) by ns.itga.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA38167; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:23:27 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from gnb@itga.com.au) Received: from itga.com.au (lightning.itga.com.au [192.168.71.20]) by lightning.itga.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09978; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:22:12 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <200107020422.OAA09978@lightning.itga.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.4 05/15/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 From: Gregory Bond To: Warner Losh Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tty/ioctl/device driver advice wanted In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:52:09 -0600. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 14:22:12 +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In message <200107020203.MAA03221@lightning.itga.com.au> Gregory Bond writes: > : The existing driver occasionally does "return(-ENODEV);" from (functions ca > lled > > Linux does that. > > : from) the device ioctl routine. The new driver that I am trying to fold in > : does "return ENODEV;". > > That's correct for FreeBSD. Thanks! I suspected as much, but the -ENODEV has been in this driver since Noah wore shorts, so I was thinking there must be something I don't understand..... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 22:33:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from D00015.dialonly.kemerovo.su (www2.svzserv.kemerovo.su [213.184.65.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189CF37B401 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 22:33:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eugen@D00015.dialonly.kemerovo.su) Received: (from eugen@localhost) by D00015.dialonly.kemerovo.su (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f625IWn08341; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:18:32 +0800 (KRAST) (envelope-from eugen) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:18:32 +0800 From: Eugene Grosbein To: Kazutaka YOKOTA Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: libvgl Message-ID: <20010702131832.A8156@grosbein.pp.ru> References: <20010701235348.A5400@grosbein.pp.ru> <200107020214.LAA23435@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107020214.LAA23435@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>; from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:14:01AM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:14:01AM +0900, Kazutaka YOKOTA wrote: > syscons dosn't automatically switch vtys if the keyboard is not in the > XLATE mode. (Oh well, this isn't documented in vgl(3), *sigh*) > > In CODEKEYS and RAWKEYS modes, you need to initiate vty switching > by yourself, by calling the ioctl VT_ACTIVATE when a key combination > for vty switching is seen. Thank you very much. Can you please point me to the right place where I can read about syscons's ioctl, it's possibilities and semantics? RTFS around dev/syscons is not enough. Eugene Grosbein To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 1 23:30:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.alcove.fr (smtp.alcove.fr [212.155.209.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F12F437B401; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:30:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nsouch@alcove.fr) Received: from avon.alcove-fr ([10.16.10.3]) by smtp.alcove.fr with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15GxEB-0006lW-00; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:30:35 +0200 Received: from nsouch by avon.alcove-fr with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15GxEB-00029x-00; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:30:35 +0200 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:30:35 +0200 From: Nicolas Souchu To: torstenb@FreeBSD.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: autoconf undefined macros Message-ID: <20010702083035.C8011@avon.alcove-fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Alc=F4ve=2C_http:=2F=2Fwww=2Ealcove=2Ecom?= Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, The 2.13_1 complains about this: ladoga:/usr/home/admin/nsouch/ggi-core/libgii>autoconf configure.in:157: warning: AC_TRY_RUN called without default to allow cross compiling autoconf: Undefined macros: configure.in:247:AC_CHECK_WINFUNCS(gettimeofday strdup nanosleep usleep _exit \ configure.in:39:AC_LIBTOOL_DLOPEN configure.in:40:AC_LIBTOOL_WIN32_DLL ladoga:/usr/home/admin/nsouch/ggi-core/libgii> And autoconf-2.50 gives me: ladoga:/home/admin/nsouch/ggi-core/libgii>autoconf configure.in:8: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE configure.in:10: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_MAINTAINER_MODE configure.in:11: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_DISABLE_STATIC configure.in:39: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_LIBTOOL_DLOPEN configure.in:40: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_LIBTOOL_WIN32_DLL configure.in:41: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_PROG_LIBTOOL configure.in:247: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_CHECK_WINFUNCS configure.in:397: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_CONDITIONAL configure.in:665: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_CONFIG_HEADER Do you have any clue? Thanks, Nicholas -- Alcôve Technical Manager - Nicolas.Souchu@fr.alcove.com - http://www.alcove.com Open Source Software Developer - nsouch@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 1: 9:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7961637B403 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 01:09:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 11438 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Jul 2001 08:14:18 -0000 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:14:18 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: FastPathNow@netscape.net Cc: dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quick question on kgdb Message-ID: <20010702111418.A10345@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: FastPathNow@netscape.net, dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <3A8E33FD.61BB4DDA.375A6AF3@netscape.net> <20010630084842.A8926@salmon.maths.tcd.ie> <1DEA2053.397C3278.375A6AF3@netscape.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <1DEA2053.397C3278.375A6AF3@netscape.net>; from FastPathNow@netscape.net on Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 10:59:35PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Possibly dumb question: OK, you specified makeoptions DEBUG=-g in your kernel config file. Did you also run config(8) with the -g option? G'luck, Peter -- The rest of this sentence is written in Thailand, on On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 10:59:35PM -0400, FastPathNow@netscape.net wrote: > Both the kernel and kernel.debug files are of exactly the same size - about 3.3 Megs . This is inspite of having the DEBUG=-g option being set in the MYKERNEL directory. Any other clues, why this could be happening. I also tried the other procedure of using 'make depend' etc as outlined in the doc, but that produced the same results. What else could I be missing? > > -AG > David Malone wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:14:51AM -0400, FastPathNow@netscape.net wrote: > > > when I load up the installed kernel in / with 'gdb -k kernel' .. it says debugging symbols not found.... > > > > The kernel which is installed is stripped of debugging symbols - > > you sound find a kernel.debug with symbols in teh compile directory. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 1:16:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C43737B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 01:16:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 11508 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Jul 2001 08:21:11 -0000 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:21:11 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: Nicolas Souchu Cc: torstenb@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: autoconf undefined macros Message-ID: <20010702112111.B10345@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Nicolas Souchu , torstenb@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20010702083035.C8011@avon.alcove-fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010702083035.C8011@avon.alcove-fr>; from nsouch@fr.alcove.com on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 08:30:35AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 08:30:35AM +0200, Nicolas Souchu wrote: > Hi, > > The 2.13_1 complains about this: > > ladoga:/usr/home/admin/nsouch/ggi-core/libgii>autoconf > configure.in:157: warning: AC_TRY_RUN called without default to allow cross compiling > autoconf: Undefined macros: > configure.in:247:AC_CHECK_WINFUNCS(gettimeofday strdup nanosleep usleep _exit \ > configure.in:39:AC_LIBTOOL_DLOPEN > configure.in:40:AC_LIBTOOL_WIN32_DLL > ladoga:/usr/home/admin/nsouch/ggi-core/libgii> > > And autoconf-2.50 gives me: > > ladoga:/home/admin/nsouch/ggi-core/libgii>autoconf > configure.in:8: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE > configure.in:10: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_MAINTAINER_MODE > configure.in:11: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_DISABLE_STATIC > configure.in:39: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_LIBTOOL_DLOPEN > configure.in:40: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_LIBTOOL_WIN32_DLL > configure.in:41: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_PROG_LIBTOOL > configure.in:247: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_CHECK_WINFUNCS > configure.in:397: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_CONDITIONAL > configure.in:665: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_CONFIG_HEADER > > Do you have any clue? Have you tried this with a newer automake, too? AFAIK, the newer versions of autoconf and automake are totally in-backwards-compatible :( G'luck, Peter -- because I didn't think of a good beginning of it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 2: 5:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sunu422.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (sunu422.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de [134.147.64.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EFE5437B403 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 02:05:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gandalf@nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de) Received: (qmail 19872 invoked by alias); 2 Jul 2001 09:05:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 19861 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 09:05:38 -0000 Received: from server.nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (HELO fwall.nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de) (134.147.252.40) by mailhost.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 09:05:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 4137 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 09:05:46 -0000 Received: from pc-j.nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (134.147.252.50) by server.nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 09:05:46 -0000 Received: (from gandalf@localhost) by pc-j.nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f6295XP45587 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:05:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from gandalf) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:05:33 +0200 From: Andre Grosse Bley To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: TCP Problems in 4.3 ? Message-ID: <20010702110533.A45523@nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello "Hackers", i think the tcp code in 4.3-RELEASE (and at least stable from last week) has a serious bug in tcp handling: I use "LPRng 3.6.20" and openssh on the 4.3 box, lpd-server is on a 4.1 box. Issuing 4-5 lpq's in a minute gives "Connection timed out". First i thought it may be a problem with LPRng, but scp'ing large files doesnt work anymore, too. Even ssh hangs sometimes. I tried to disable the "newreno" stuff with sysctl, didnt change anything. Why i suspect a tcp problem? The host scp connects to shows: "LAST_ACK" in state (netstat), The host initiating the scp connection shows "ESTABLISHED" in state. I hope its no problem on my side, but i checked the archive before and I did not have this behaviour on 4.2 Any ideas? Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 3:38:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (gw.Awfulhak.org [217.204.245.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6207737B403 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 03:38:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f62Acbr51238; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:38:38 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f5ULXl400762; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:33:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200106302133.f5ULXl400762@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: John Toon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, brian@Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: Linux Applications Over PPP In-Reply-To: Message from John Toon of "Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:59:12 -0000." <3B3C5F80.3020706@btinternet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:33:47 -0400 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The only strange occurrence I've seen that sounds even vaguely similar is that if you leave out a nameserver line in /compat/linux/etc/hosts, it *doesn't* default to 127.1. Try adding a nameserver line (if you haven't already got one). > Hi, > > Six million *.rpm files later, I've finally got the Linux version of > Mozilla working properly. However, neither the Linux versions of Mozilla > or Opera seem to be able use my PPP connection - they simply can't > connect to anything, even when I'm fully connected and browsing using > the FreeBSD version of Mozilla. > > Why is this? What setting do I need to alter to enable Linux apps to use > my PPP connection? > > Regards, > > John. > > ppp.conf (username/password hashed out!): > > ################################################################# > # PPP Sample Configuration File > # Originally written by Toshiharu OHNO > # Simplified 5/14/1999 by wself@cdrom.com > # > # $FreeBSD: src/etc/ppp/ppp.conf,v 1.2 1999/08/27 23:24:08 peter Exp $ > ################################################################# > > default: > > > # > # Make sure that "device" references the correct serial port > # for your modem. (cuaa0 = COM1, cuaa1 = COM2) > # > > set device /dev/cuaa0 > > set log Phase Chat LCP IPCP CCP tun command > set speed 57600 > set dial "ABORT BUSY ABORT NO\\sCARRIER TIMEOUT 5 \"\" AT OK-AT-OK > ATE1Q0M0 OK \\dATDT\\T TIMEOUT 40 CONNECT" > > set timeout 120 > set ifaddr 10.0.0.1/0 10.0.0.2/0 255.255.255.0 0.0.0.0 > add default HISADDR > enable dns > > > anytime: > > set phone 08089933001 > set authname #### > set authkey #### -- Brian http://www.freebsd-services.com/ Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 4:42: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bugz.infotecs.ru (bugz.infotecs.ru [195.210.139.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E458637B405 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 04:42:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vel@bugz.infotecs.ru) Received: (from vel@localhost) by bugz.infotecs.ru (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f62Brrw86776; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:53:53 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from vel) From: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Message-Id: <200107021153.f62Brrw86776@bugz.infotecs.ru> Subject: Re: TCP Problems in 4.3 ? In-Reply-To: <20010702110533.A45523@nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> "from Andre Grosse Bley at Jul 2, 2001 11:05:33 am" To: Andre Grosse Bley Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:53:53 +0400 (MSD) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I use "LPRng 3.6.20" and openssh on the 4.3 box, lpd-server is on a 4.1 box. > Issuing 4-5 lpq's in a minute gives "Connection timed out". > First i thought it may be a problem with LPRng, but scp'ing large files > doesnt work anymore, too. Even ssh hangs sometimes. > I tried to disable the "newreno" stuff with sysctl, didnt change anything. > Why i suspect a tcp problem? I had similar problems with 4.3, my ssh and telnet sessions were giving timeouts when they were inactive for about 2 hours (ofcourse this was not an autologout or something). The problem was fixed when I downgraded (for another reason) to 4.2. Regards, Eugene To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 4:58:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.alcove.fr (smtp.alcove.fr [212.155.209.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A17637B406; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 04:58:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nsouch@alcove.fr) Received: from avon.alcove-fr ([10.16.10.3]) by smtp.alcove.fr with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15H2LB-0001P8-00; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:58:09 +0200 Received: from nsouch by avon.alcove-fr with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15H2LA-0002ok-00; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:58:08 +0200 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:58:08 +0200 From: Nicolas Souchu To: torstenb@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: autoconf undefined macros Message-ID: <20010702135807.D8795@avon.alcove-fr> References: <20010702083035.C8011@avon.alcove-fr> <20010702112111.B10345@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20010702112111.B10345@ringworld.oblivion.bg>; from roam@orbitel.bg on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:21:11AM +0300 Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Alc=F4ve=2C_http:=2F=2Fwww=2Ealcove=2Ecom?= Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:21:11AM +0300, Peter Pentchev wrote: > On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 08:30:35AM +0200, Nicolas Souchu wrote: > > Hi, > > > > The 2.13_1 complains about this: > > > > ladoga:/usr/home/admin/nsouch/ggi-core/libgii>autoconf > > configure.in:157: warning: AC_TRY_RUN called without default to allow cross compiling > > autoconf: Undefined macros: > > configure.in:247:AC_CHECK_WINFUNCS(gettimeofday strdup nanosleep usleep _exit \ > > configure.in:39:AC_LIBTOOL_DLOPEN > > configure.in:40:AC_LIBTOOL_WIN32_DLL > > ladoga:/usr/home/admin/nsouch/ggi-core/libgii> > > > > And autoconf-2.50 gives me: > > > > ladoga:/home/admin/nsouch/ggi-core/libgii>autoconf > > configure.in:8: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE > > configure.in:10: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_MAINTAINER_MODE > > configure.in:11: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_DISABLE_STATIC > > configure.in:39: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_LIBTOOL_DLOPEN > > configure.in:40: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_LIBTOOL_WIN32_DLL > > configure.in:41: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_PROG_LIBTOOL > > configure.in:247: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_CHECK_WINFUNCS > > configure.in:397: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_CONDITIONAL > > configure.in:665: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_CONFIG_HEADER > > > > Do you have any clue? > > Have you tried this with a newer automake, too? AFAIK, the newer Newer than 2.50? > versions of autoconf and automake are totally in-backwards-compatible :( So the 2.13_1 version seems to be the closest to my configure.in file. Then, could it be some missing macros in the FreeBSD installation? Nicholas -- Alcôve Technical Manager - Nicolas.Souchu@fr.alcove.com - http://www.alcove.com Open Source Software Developer - nsouch@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 5:56:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1552037B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 05:56:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 15745 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Jul 2001 13:01:18 -0000 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:01:18 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: Nicolas Souchu Cc: torstenb@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: autoconf undefined macros Message-ID: <20010702160118.A15691@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Nicolas Souchu , torstenb@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20010702083035.C8011@avon.alcove-fr> <20010702112111.B10345@ringworld.oblivion.bg> <20010702135807.D8795@avon.alcove-fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010702135807.D8795@avon.alcove-fr>; from nsouch@fr.alcove.com on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 01:58:08PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 01:58:08PM +0200, Nicolas Souchu wrote: > On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:21:11AM +0300, Peter Pentchev wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 08:30:35AM +0200, Nicolas Souchu wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > The 2.13_1 complains about this: > > > > > > ladoga:/usr/home/admin/nsouch/ggi-core/libgii>autoconf > > > configure.in:157: warning: AC_TRY_RUN called without default to allow cross compiling > > > autoconf: Undefined macros: > > > configure.in:247:AC_CHECK_WINFUNCS(gettimeofday strdup nanosleep usleep _exit \ > > > configure.in:39:AC_LIBTOOL_DLOPEN > > > configure.in:40:AC_LIBTOOL_WIN32_DLL > > > ladoga:/usr/home/admin/nsouch/ggi-core/libgii> > > > > > > And autoconf-2.50 gives me: > > > > > > ladoga:/home/admin/nsouch/ggi-core/libgii>autoconf > > > configure.in:8: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE > > > configure.in:10: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_MAINTAINER_MODE > > > configure.in:11: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_DISABLE_STATIC > > > configure.in:39: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_LIBTOOL_DLOPEN > > > configure.in:40: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_LIBTOOL_WIN32_DLL > > > configure.in:41: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_PROG_LIBTOOL > > > configure.in:247: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_CHECK_WINFUNCS > > > configure.in:397: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_CONDITIONAL > > > configure.in:665: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_CONFIG_HEADER > > > > > > Do you have any clue? > > > > Have you tried this with a newer automake, too? AFAIK, the newer > > Newer than 2.50? I meant the automake version, not autoconf. > > versions of autoconf and automake are totally in-backwards-compatible :( > > So the 2.13_1 version seems to be the closest to my configure.in file. > Then, could it be some missing macros in the FreeBSD installation? If the configure.in and Makefile.am files (and similar) are created for autoconf-2.50 *and* automake > 1.4 (e.g. 1.4d), they won't work with any combination of autoconf <= 2.50 and automake 1.4. Trust me, I've tried. The only thing I *haven't* tried so far is actually try to update my automake to 1.4d or similar. G'luck, Peter -- If there were no counterfactuals, this sentence would not have been paradoxical. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 6: 3:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ndcorp.com (mail.ndchealth.com [206.227.248.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C52C37B40A for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 06:03:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremy.lakey@ndchealth.com) Received: from claven.cistech.com (claven.cistech.com [198.200.166.25]) by mail.ndcorp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11640 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:59:20 -0400 Received: by claven.cistech.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <3C4CXLMZ>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:58:22 -0500 Message-ID: <4242F92CA015D5119B96006008340142012554D8@claven.cistech.com> From: "Lakey, Jeremy # IHTUL" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: i810E driver? Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:58:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C102F6.AC35C560" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C102F6.AC35C560 Content-Type: text/plain Is anyone working on an i810E driver for BSD? Specifically something that will enable the 3D hardware acceleration and make it useful for OpenGL, X, etc? I'm looking at this for a pet summer project, and wanted to make certain I wasn't duplicating any effort. All these Dell boxes come with the i810E as the integrated video chip, and it's really a fantastic chip, nice acceleration, but drivers are scarce.. The redhat driver sucks too, barely implemented. Thanks Jeremy Lakey jeremy.lakey@ndchealth.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C102F6.AC35C560 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Is anyone working on an i810E driver for BSD?  Specifically something that = will enable the 3D hardware acceleration and make it useful for OpenGL, X, etc? =

 

I'm looking at this for a pet summer project, and wanted to make certain I wasn't duplicating any effort.   All these Dell boxes = come with the i810E as the integrated video chip, and it's really a fantastic chip, nice acceleration, but drivers are scarce..  The redhat driver sucks too, barely implemented.

 

Thanks

 

Jeremy Lakey

jeremy.lakey@ndchealth.com

 

 

 

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C102F6.AC35C560-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 7: 1:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from borja.sarenet.es (borja.sarenet.es [192.148.167.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B36A637B405 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:01:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from borjam@sarenet.es) Received: from borja.sarenet.es (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by borja.sarenet.es (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f62E1N950054 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:01:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from borjam@sarenet.es) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Borja Marcos To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Orca performance data collector Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:01:23 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0107021359220F.48437@borja.sarenet.es> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I am "writing" (in fact I am getting a lot of code from /usr/src/usr.bin/vmstat) an Orca data collector for FreeBSD. I think it would be great to have the performance data available in Orca. I am thinking about representing the following parameters: CPU load CPU usage (user, system, interrupt, idle). ¿Do you think it is better to add nice + user to have a single "user" value, or is it better to separate them? Spawned process/sec Number of processes Interface stats: in, out (bps) in, out (packets) errors/s "nocanput" (perhaps packets not send because of buffer outages?) "deferred" collisions TCP bits/sec TCP packets/sec TCP retransmissions + duplicates TCP new connection rate TCP open connections TCP reset state TCP listen drop rate MBUFs Disks: operations/sec transfer rate transfer size run % or time to complete an operation (BTW... is it possible to get read and write statistics instead of a sum?) Cache hits (inode and directory) Memory (usage, etc). Any more interesting parameters? An example of Orca can be seen in http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~blair/orca/. It is really useful to watch the system performance. Borja. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 8:16:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from max5.rrze.uni-erlangen.de (max5.rrze.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.3.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F8737B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:16:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Jochen.Kaiser@rrze.uni-erlangen.de) Received: from devil.rrze.uni-erlangen.de by max5.rrze.uni-erlangen.de with ESMTP; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:14:37 +0200 Received: (from unrz111@localhost) by devil.rrze.uni-erlangen.de (8.11.4/8.11.3) id f62FJgH52954; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:19:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from unrz111) From: Jochen Kaiser Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:19:42 +0200 To: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Cc: Andre Grosse Bley , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: TCP Problems in 4.3 ? Message-Id: <20010702171942.D32805@devil.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20010702110533.A45523@nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <200107021153.f62Brrw86776@bugz.infotecs.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107021153.f62Brrw86776@bugz.infotecs.ru>; from vel@bugz.infotecs.ru on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 03:53:53PM +0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 03:53:53PM +0400, Eugene L. Vorokov wrote: > > I use "LPRng 3.6.20" and openssh on the 4.3 box, lpd-server is on a 4.1 box. > > Issuing 4-5 lpq's in a minute gives "Connection timed out". > > First i thought it may be a problem with LPRng, but scp'ing large files > > doesnt work anymore, too. Even ssh hangs sometimes. > > I tried to disable the "newreno" stuff with sysctl, didnt change anything. > > Why i suspect a tcp problem? > > I had similar problems with 4.3, my ssh and telnet sessions were giving > timeouts when they were inactive for about 2 hours (ofcourse this was > not an autologout or something). The problem was fixed when I downgraded > (for another reason) to 4.2. > Sure there isn't something in between which does a timeout after 2h? (default value for checkpoint firewall-1). I had the same problem and it was the fw-1. (Yes, I have set keepalive to on) regards, jochen -- Dipl. Inf. Jochen Kaiser kind@IRCNET, phone +49 9131 85-28134 Network Administration mailto:jochen.kaiser@rrze.uni-erlangen.de Regionales Rechenzentrum Universitaet Erlangen-Nuernberg, Germany GPG public key: http://www.uni-erlangen.de/~unrza2/public_key.txt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 8:19: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bugz.infotecs.ru (bugz.infotecs.ru [195.210.139.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40CBA37B405 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:19:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vel@bugz.infotecs.ru) Received: (from vel@localhost) by bugz.infotecs.ru (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f62FWEw87507 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:32:14 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from vel) From: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Message-Id: <200107021532.f62FWEw87507@bugz.infotecs.ru> Subject: catching ip packets from module To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:32:13 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, can please someone enlighten me how can a module catch ip packets before they actually enter the stack, the way ipfw or ipf does ? I tried to look at the sources, but ipfw seems to do it some very specific way which is based on some in-kernel hacks to make it possible (ofcourse correct me if I'm wrong), and ipf does so many things at startup so I can't figure out which function does what :( I just want to add my handler so that all packets would be passed to it before entering the kernel ... Thanks for the information. Regards, Eugene To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 8:21:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bugz.infotecs.ru (bugz.infotecs.ru [195.210.139.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0914F37B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:21:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vel@bugz.infotecs.ru) Received: (from vel@localhost) by bugz.infotecs.ru (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f62FZ4v87531; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:35:04 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from vel) From: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Message-Id: <200107021535.f62FZ4v87531@bugz.infotecs.ru> Subject: Re: TCP Problems in 4.3 ? In-Reply-To: <20010702171942.D32805@devil.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> "from Jochen Kaiser at Jul 2, 2001 05:19:42 pm" To: Jochen Kaiser Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:35:04 +0400 (MSD) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 03:53:53PM +0400, Eugene L. Vorokov wrote: > > > I use "LPRng 3.6.20" and openssh on the 4.3 box, lpd-server is on a 4.1 box. > > > Issuing 4-5 lpq's in a minute gives "Connection timed out". > > > First i thought it may be a problem with LPRng, but scp'ing large files > > > doesnt work anymore, too. Even ssh hangs sometimes. > > > I tried to disable the "newreno" stuff with sysctl, didnt change anything. > > > Why i suspect a tcp problem? > > > > I had similar problems with 4.3, my ssh and telnet sessions were giving > > timeouts when they were inactive for about 2 hours (ofcourse this was > > not an autologout or something). The problem was fixed when I downgraded > > (for another reason) to 4.2. > > > > Sure there isn't something in between which does a timeout after > 2h? (default value for checkpoint firewall-1). > I had the same problem and it was the fw-1. > (Yes, I have set keepalive to on) No, there was only a FreeBSD 4.2 with options BRIDGE in between. And anyway, if firewall would be a problem, why this problem doesn't appear with 4.2 ... Regards, Eugene To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 8:28:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f83.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61C6337B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:28:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from part_lion@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:28:56 -0700 Received: from 208.254.3.3 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 15:28:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.254.3.3] From: "Joesh Juphland" To: imp@harmony.village.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: why not two ep pc-cards in one system ? Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:28:56 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2001 15:28:56.0289 (UTC) FILETIME=[B5370510:01C1030B] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You mean in /etc/defaults/pccard.conf ? or in /etc/rc.conf ? thanks. >: hostname pccardd[87]: No free configuration for card 3Com Corporation > >You need a second config line to the 3com entry. > >Warner > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe >freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 8:43:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mecenia.org (210-232.sh.cgocable.ca [24.226.210.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D55AB37B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:43:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ian@mecenia.org) Received: (from ian@localhost) by mecenia.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f62FhBk35543 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:43:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ian) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:43:11 -0400 From: Ian Trudel To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Q] msgs Message-ID: <20010702114249.A35512@mecenia.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, msgs reminded me the old UNIX news command and then, I started to fiddle around it. As I want to post stuff, it works good with msgs -s. However, in the man pages, they suggest: The line msgs: "| /usr/bin/msgs -s" should be included in /etc/mail/aliases (see newaliases(1)) to enable posting of messages. after running newaliases, I expected (maybe shouldn't I?) I could email to msgs 'user' to post a news. But I'm getting an error: Jul 2 11:17:45 gateway sendmail[35214]: f62FHjx35214: from=root, size=48, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200107021517.f62FHjx35214@mecenia.org>, relay=root@localhost Jul 2 11:17:45 gateway sendmail[35216]: f62FHjx35214: to="| /usr/bin/msgs -s", ctladdr=msgs (1/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30048, dsn=5.3.0, stat=unknown mailer error 13 Jul 2 11:17:45 gateway sendmail[35216]: f62FHjx35214: f62FHjw35216: DSN: unknown mailer error 13 and hints? regards, ian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 9: 0:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web13006.mail.yahoo.com (web13006.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B8B037B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:00:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pepsikid83@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010702160015.24556.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.162.21.30] by web13006.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:00:15 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:00:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zac M. Speidel" Subject: FreeBSD 4.0-release installation problems To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A few days ago I got my Dell 8100 (1.5 ghz and 128 Mb of ram) in the mail. Naturally I desided to install Freebsd 4.0 on it along with preinstalled WindowsME. So I used Partition Magic to cut the 40 gig windows partition and add a partition for freebsd (about 5 gigs allocated). The installation ran pretty smoothly, it probed my hardware fine and everything seemed to be working ok. During the installation process freebsd prompted me to choose a boot loader, I choose the freebsd boot manager (booteasy). When I rebooted my machine The boot easy prompt came on F1 for windows and F2 for freebsd, I hit F2 because I wanted freebsd to load. When I hit "F2" all I heard was my internal speaker beep - one of those annoying "warning beeps" and nothing attempted to load. when I hit F1 windows loaded fine. I began thinking it was some sort of BIOS configuration problem so I went in bios and no luck there eather.. I have heard about some system BIOS having an issue with exceeding 1024 cylinders or whatnot, but this is for OLD machines not new 1.5 ghz machine.. If anyone has information on my problem or can offer suggestions please email me... I will take you out for a cup of coffee or lunch if you help me get freebsd running (joking) anyways have a great summer bsd cadets and stay away from the heat.. Scared Dell user, Zac Speidel Please email me: Pepsikid83@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 9:12: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E71037B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:11:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: from nomad.yogotech.com (nomad.yogotech.com [206.127.123.131]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18568; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:11:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@nomad.yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by nomad.yogotech.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15136; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:11:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate) From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15168.40266.336233.567196@nomad.yogotech.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:11:54 -0600 (MDT) To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <109.209fe81.2870aa5c@aol.com> References: <109.209fe81.2870aa5c@aol.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > I think you've missed the fact that the '486 solution requires an > > > add-on board (priced at $80.) and the faster cpu solution doesnt. That > > > adds a lot of margin to get a faster MB, more than enough to > > > compensate for the board. > > > > Not necessarily. The upgraded motherboard also requires a faster > > processor, and the two parts added together are almost certainly going > > to be more than $80. > > > > There is nothing more annoying than someone who argues subjects he clearly > knows nothing about. I agree. :) > You are way off on your pricing. Way off. A 633 Celeron > is under 50. Q1 for petes sake. The cost difference would be less than $20. > in quantity. It would be less than $80. Q1. That's just CPU. You've left off the motherboard, as well as the memory and other supporting hardware required for the CPU to do the work. > Theres an old saying about being penny-wise and pound foolish. Using a > 486 in todays networking and cost environment is just plain moronic. See your first sentence. You *really* don't know what you are talking about. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 9:14:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64B937B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:14:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f62GEg014081; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:14:42 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:14:41 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: "Zac M. Speidel" Subject: Re: FreeBSD 4.0-release installation problems In-Reply-To: <20010702160015.24556.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (Responding on-list so there's no flood of private responses. Considered cross-posting to move the thread, but hoping it will just die on -hackers.) This topic would probably be better suited to freebsd-questions. > Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:00:15 -0700 (PDT) > From: Zac M. Speidel > To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: FreeBSD 4.0-release installation problems FYI: 1. Not sure why you're running 4.0-R 2. Processor speed means nothing. A PC BIOS is a PC BIOS is a PC BIOS, and they all have the same limitations. 3. Consider a small (8 MB is more than enough) partition to hold /boot. Note that I'm using partition in the WinDOS/Linux sense; a "slice" would be the correct BSD term. Eddy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. EverQuick Internet Division Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita/(Inter)national Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: A Trap To: blacklist@brics.com Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to , or you are likely to be blocked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 9:16:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sneakerz.org (sneakerz.org [216.33.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD6837B405 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:16:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@sneakerz.org) Received: by sneakerz.org (Postfix, from userid 1092) id 3EF635D010; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:16:49 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:16:49 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: catching ip packets from module Message-ID: <20010702111649.N84523@sneakerz.org> References: <200107021532.f62FWEw87507@bugz.infotecs.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200107021532.f62FWEw87507@bugz.infotecs.ru>; from vel@bugz.infotecs.ru on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 07:32:13PM +0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Eugene L. Vorokov [010702 10:19] wrote: > Hello, > > can please someone enlighten me how can a module catch ip packets before > they actually enter the stack, the way ipfw or ipf does ? I tried to look > at the sources, but ipfw seems to do it some very specific way which > is based on some in-kernel hacks to make it possible (ofcourse correct me > if I'm wrong), and ipf does so many things at startup so I can't figure > out which function does what :( I just want to add my handler so that > all packets would be passed to it before entering the kernel ... > > Thanks for the information. Look at src/sys/net/if_ethersubr.c, there's hooks for netgraph that you can ab^H^Huse. :) -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? And why do my programs keep crashing in it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 10:16:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.alcove.fr (smtp.alcove.fr [212.155.209.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6E6B37B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:16:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nsouch@alcove.fr) Received: from avon.alcove-fr ([10.16.10.3]) by smtp.alcove.fr with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15H7Iy-0004sI-00; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:16:12 +0200 Received: from nsouch by avon.alcove-fr with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15H7Ix-0003H2-00; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:16:11 +0200 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:16:11 +0200 From: Nicolas Souchu To: Doug Rabson Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: processes private data Message-ID: <20010702191611.A12009@avon.alcove-fr> References: <20010629110607.B19935@avon.alcove-fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: ; from dfr@nlsystems.com on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:34:19PM +0100 Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Alc=F4ve=2C_http:=2F=2Fwww=2Ealcove=2Ecom?= Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:34:19PM +0100, Doug Rabson wrote: > > When you get a new struct file from falloc(), VFS has nothing to do with > it. As you can see from the streamsopen() code, you can change f_ops > (which by default points at &badfileops) and f_data (defaults to zero) to > point at your own functions and data. > > The point is that you are creating a new file. The VFS-owned file which > ended up calling the open driver entrypoint will be discarded in favour of > your new one. But, what about all the locking stuff in vn_xxxx()? How can I know if I actually need them? Nicholas -- Alcôve Technical Manager - Nicolas.Souchu@fr.alcove.com - http://www.alcove.com Open Source Software Developer - nsouch@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 10:38:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rallos.eatonform.com (rallos.eatonform.com [206.190.178.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F8C737B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:38:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rch@acidpit.org) Received: (from rch@localhost) by rallos.eatonform.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f62DVhC40549 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:31:43 GMT Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:31:43 +0000 From: Robert Hough To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Filesystem ACL's Message-ID: <20010702133143.B40440@acidpit.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Couple of questions, and my apologies for repeating something that may have been mentioned recently... Are Filesystem ACL's something we can look forward to seeing in FreeBSD? Also, is there a place I can view the progress and/or the current status of the project? Finally, what does it take to implement this functionality? If this is a feature already in production, please just smack me upside the head, and point me to the correct man page. Thanks! -- Robert Hough (rch@acidpit.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 11: 1:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07AD637B408 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:01:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john.toon@btinternet.com) Received: from host213-122-31-231.btinternet.com ([213.122.31.231] helo=btinternet.com) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15H80m-0000IB-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:01:28 +0100 Message-ID: <3B40C4FA.2050001@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:01:14 +0000 From: John Toon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.1-RELEASE i386; en-US; rv:0.9.1) Gecko/20010621 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux Applications Over PPP References: <200106302133.f5ULXl400762@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Somers wrote: > The only strange occurrence I've seen that sounds even vaguely > similar is that if you leave out a nameserver line in > /compat/linux/etc/hosts, it *doesn't* default to 127.1. > > Try adding a nameserver line (if you haven't already got one). Thanks for the suggestion, but it has still not solved the problem. In fact there wasn't even a /compat/linux/etc/hosts file, so I created one, containing the line: 127.0.0.1 localhost Dionysus (Dionysus is the hostname of my machine). Unfortunately this had no effect, even after unloading and reloading the linux.ko module to ensure it parsed the new configuration file. /compat/linux/etc/hosts.conf is set so it parses hosts first as well. Any ideas? It's completely bizarre, Linux emulation has always worked perfectly for me before... John. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 11: 5:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from void.xpert.com (xpert.com [199.203.132.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF2B037B407 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:05:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Yonatan@xpert.com) Received: from mailserv.xpert.com ([199.203.132.135]) by void.xpert.com with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 15H7yj-0000bR-00; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 20:59:21 +0300 Received: by mailserv.xpert.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:59:51 +0300 Message-ID: From: Yonatan Bokovza To: 'Robert Hough' , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Filesystem ACL's Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:59:50 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG see www.trustedbsd.org especially the usenix paper. > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Hough [mailto:rch@acidpit.org] > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 16:32 > To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Filesystem ACL's > > > Are Filesystem ACL's something we can look forward to seeing > in FreeBSD? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 11:16:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sneakerz.org (sneakerz.org [216.33.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2389C37B406 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:16:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@sneakerz.org) Received: by sneakerz.org (Postfix, from userid 1092) id AD58A5D010; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:16:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:16:25 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Yonatan Bokovza Cc: 'Robert Hough' , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem ACL's Message-ID: <20010702131625.P84523@sneakerz.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Yonatan@xpert.com on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 08:59:50PM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Hough [mailto:rch@acidpit.org] > > > > Are Filesystem ACL's something we can look forward to seeing > > in FreeBSD? > > * Yonatan Bokovza [010702 13:05] wrote: > see www.trustedbsd.org especially the usenix paper. Well FreeBSD 5 has a bunch of the ACL stuff ported to it. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 11:20: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.147.1.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52B837B406 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:19:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom@gottheil.com) Received: from humbaba (nelazul@h0020182d540a.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.52.27]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f62IJc819642; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000e01c10323$bc844bd0$0200a8c0@humbaba> From: "Tom Gottheil" To: "Robert Hough" , References: <20010702133143.B40440@acidpit.org> Subject: Re: Filesystem ACL's Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:20:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nothing for sure yet, but AFAIK, a couple ideas presented at USENIX are being considered. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hough" To: Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 9:31 AM Subject: Filesystem ACL's > Couple of questions, and my apologies for repeating something that may > have been mentioned recently... > > Are Filesystem ACL's something we can look forward to seeing in FreeBSD? > Also, is there a place I can view the progress and/or the current status > of the project? Finally, what does it take to implement this functionality? > > If this is a feature already in production, please just smack me upside the > head, and point me to the correct man page. Thanks! > > -- > Robert Hough (rch@acidpit.org) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 12:38:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2810C37B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:38:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (InterJet.elischer.org [192.168.1.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA13584; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:17:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: John Toon Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux Applications Over PPP In-Reply-To: <3B40C4FA.2050001@btinternet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG is there a /compat/linux/etc/resolv.conf? On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, John Toon wrote: > Brian Somers wrote: > > > The only strange occurrence I've seen that sounds even vaguely > > similar is that if you leave out a nameserver line in > > /compat/linux/etc/hosts, it *doesn't* default to 127.1. > > > > Try adding a nameserver line (if you haven't already got one). > > Thanks for the suggestion, but it has still not solved the problem. > > In fact there wasn't even a /compat/linux/etc/hosts file, so I created > one, containing the line: > > 127.0.0.1 localhost Dionysus > > (Dionysus is the hostname of my machine). > > Unfortunately this had no effect, even after unloading and reloading the > linux.ko module to ensure it parsed the new configuration file. > /compat/linux/etc/hosts.conf is set so it parses hosts first as well. > > Any ideas? > > It's completely bizarre, Linux emulation has always worked perfectly for > me before... > > John. > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 12:58:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA0E637B406 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:58:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (InterJet.elischer.org [192.168.1.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA13636; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:25:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: John Toon Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux Applications Over PPP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Julian Elischer wrote: > is there a /compat/linux/etc/resolv.conf? At one stage you needed one as the linux binaries expected a different format. ppp updates the BSD one but not the Linux one.. > > On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, John Toon wrote: > > > Brian Somers wrote: > > > > > The only strange occurrence I've seen that sounds even vaguely > > > similar is that if you leave out a nameserver line in > > > /compat/linux/etc/hosts, it *doesn't* default to 127.1. > > > > > > Try adding a nameserver line (if you haven't already got one). > > > > Thanks for the suggestion, but it has still not solved the problem. > > > > In fact there wasn't even a /compat/linux/etc/hosts file, so I created > > one, containing the line: > > > > 127.0.0.1 localhost Dionysus > > > > (Dionysus is the hostname of my machine). > > > > Unfortunately this had no effect, even after unloading and reloading the > > linux.ko module to ensure it parsed the new configuration file. > > /compat/linux/etc/hosts.conf is set so it parses hosts first as well. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > It's completely bizarre, Linux emulation has always worked perfectly for > > me before... > > > > John. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 13: 4:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peitho.fxp.org (peitho.fxp.org [209.26.95.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7CCA37B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:04:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdf.lists@fxp.org) Received: by peitho.fxp.org (Postfix, from userid 1501) id 20AE813618; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:04:23 -0400 From: Chris Faulhaber To: Tom Gottheil Cc: Robert Hough , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem ACL's Message-ID: <20010702160423.A37402@peitho.fxp.org> References: <20010702133143.B40440@acidpit.org> <000e01c10323$bc844bd0$0200a8c0@humbaba> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="nFreZHaLTZJo0R7j" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <000e01c10323$bc844bd0$0200a8c0@humbaba>; from tom@gottheil.com on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 02:20:56PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --nFreZHaLTZJo0R7j Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 02:20:56PM -0400, Tom Gottheil wrote: > Nothing for sure yet, but AFAIK, a couple ideas presented at USENIX are > being considered. >=20 POSIX.1e ACL support is present in -current. =20 --=20 Chris D. Faulhaber - jedgar@fxp.org - jedgar@FreeBSD.org -------------------------------------------------------- FreeBSD: The Power To Serve - http://www.FreeBSD.org --nFreZHaLTZJo0R7j Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: FreeBSD: The Power To Serve iEYEARECAAYFAjtA08cACgkQObaG4P6BelAeUgCeMV6lorCNeSC4GyIMFuwUNbua mv4An3+uL3viO1QrP5qoJ7U5hE9ulmIX =QdCo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nFreZHaLTZJo0R7j-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 13:25:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384FF37B401; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:25:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f62KO3Y134024; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:24:03 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010702133143.B40440@acidpit.org> References: <20010702133143.B40440@acidpit.org> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:24:01 -0400 To: Robert Hough , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Filesystem ACL's Cc: rwatson@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 1:31 PM +0000 7/2/01, Robert Hough wrote: >Couple of questions, and my apologies for repeating something >that may have been mentioned recently... > >Are Filesystem ACL's something we can look forward to seeing >in FreeBSD? Also, is there a place I can view the progress >and/or the current status of the project? Robert Watson is doing a lot of work in the area of ACL's and access mechanisms in general. He will probably scarce for the next month or so, though. Something about getting married or honeymoons, iirc. <> You could check www.trustedbsd.org, or also search thru the freebsd-security mailing list for recent messages from Robert about 'TrustedBSD paper at USENIX'. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 15: 8:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B6C437B405 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:08:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id k.12d.dc435a (16786); Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:08:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: <12d.dc435a.28724adf@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:08:31 EDT Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD To: nate@yogotech.com, hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 07/02/2001 12:16:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nate@yogotech.com writes: > > You are way off on your pricing. Way off. A 633 Celeron > > is under 50. Q1 for petes sake. The cost difference would be less than $20. > > > in quantity. It would be less than $80. Q1. > > That's just CPU. You've left off the motherboard, as well as the memory > and other supporting hardware required for the CPU to do the work. > Entire PIII MBs are available for under $60. Your concept that the delta in cost between a 486 chipset and PIII is more that that is utterly ridiculous PIII chipsets and 486 chipsets cost the same in quantity. Try using a resource other than your Radio Shack catalogue please. B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 15:18:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp9.xs4all.nl (smtp9.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 175BE37B405 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:18:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [213.84.32.253]) by smtp9.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03220; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:18:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.11.4/8.11.3) id f62MILZ03048; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:18:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:18:21 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: nate@yogotech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010703001821.A3034@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <12d.dc435a.28724adf@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <12d.dc435a.28724adf@aol.com>; from Bsdguru@aol.com on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 06:08:31PM -0400 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 06:08:31PM -0400, Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 07/02/2001 12:16:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > nate@yogotech.com writes: > > > > You are way off on your pricing. Way off. A 633 Celeron > > > is under 50. Q1 for petes sake. The cost difference would be less than > $20. > > > > > in quantity. It would be less than $80. Q1. > > > > That's just CPU. You've left off the motherboard, as well as the memory > > and other supporting hardware required for the CPU to do the work. > > > > Entire PIII MBs are available for under $60. Your concept that the delta in > cost between a 486 chipset and PIII is more that that is utterly ridiculous > PIII chipsets and 486 chipsets cost the same in quantity. Try using a > resource other than your Radio Shack catalogue please. Might be true, but embedded folks tend to use something else than a run-of-the-mill mainboard. I think this whole thread boils down to: "YMMV". Let it die (please..) -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands email: wilko@FreeBSD.org |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte http://www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 15:26:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pianosa.catch22.org (pianosa.catch22.org [64.81.48.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE5137B403 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:26:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dbt@meat.net) Received: by pianosa.catch22.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 469631757; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:26:46 -0700 From: David Terrell To: Cyrille Lefevre Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: import NetBSD rc system Message-ID: <20010702152646.B11363@pianosa.catch22.org> Reply-To: David Terrell References: <20010613202415.A3689@core.usrlib.org> <4rtjnv83.fsf@gits.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <4rtjnv83.fsf@gits.dyndns.org>; from clefevre-lists@noos.fr on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 01:42:36PM +0200 X-Nethack: You feel like someone is making a pointless Nethack reference.--More-- X-Uptime: 3:24PM up 112 days, 14:28, 34 users, load averages: 0.25, 0.23, 0.18 X-Baby: Theodore Marvin Wolpinsky Terrell born 125 days, 0 hours, 38 minutes, 28 seconds ago Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 01:42:36PM +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > in fact, the require keyword isn't sufficient in it's own. there > should be pre_require and post_require keywords since nfsd needs to > start mountd before to start nfsd then rpc.statd and rpc.lockd have to > be started after nfsd. Sorry to jump in an old discussion, I don't read fbsd-hackers often enough, apparently. In this situation, wouldn't you rather take the solaris option of putting "nfs_servers" in their own startup option and start the servers desired (maybe you don't want rpc.lockd) according to normal rc.conf knobs. For services as tightly coupled as this that seems like a much better way of guaranteeing ordering, and the whole package could then depend on portmap. It's not like you'd ever want nfsd and not mountd, or vice versa. -- David Terrell | But remember that "layman" is just a polite dbt@meat.net | word for "idiot." http://wwn.nebcorp.com/ | - Neal Stephenson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 15:42:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA44237B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:42:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id B6D7081D05; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:42:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:42:19 -0500 From: Bill Fumerola To: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: catching ip packets from module Message-ID: <20010702174219.K47870@elvis.mu.org> References: <200107021532.f62FWEw87507@bugz.infotecs.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107021532.f62FWEw87507@bugz.infotecs.ru>; from vel@bugz.infotecs.ru on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 07:32:13PM +0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-FEARSOME-20010617 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 07:32:13PM +0400, Eugene L. Vorokov wrote: > Hello, > > can please someone enlighten me how can a module catch ip packets before > they actually enter the stack, the way ipfw or ipf does ? I tried to look > at the sources, but ipfw seems to do it some very specific way which > is based on some in-kernel hacks to make it possible (ofcourse correct me > if I'm wrong), and ipf does so many things at startup so I can't figure > out which function does what :( I just want to add my handler so that > all packets would be passed to it before entering the kernel ... the way ipfw or ipf does? by adding hacks^H^H^H^Hooks into ip_{in,out}put() search for ip_fw_chk_ptr and fr_checkp, those are the money functions. everything else is just setup and reaction. as far as non-hacks that do similar things, as alfred points out netgraph is probably the most modular way to drop in raw-frame-needing-module-X. -- Bill Fumerola - security yahoo / Yahoo! inc. - fumerola@yahoo-inc.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 15:53:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from maybe.csap.af.mil (mudd.csap.af.mil [192.203.1.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 17D6937B403; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:53:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from carlos.garcia@veridian.com) Received: from mailcenter.csap.af.mil(really [192.168.20.202]) by maybe.csap.af.mil via sendmail with smtp id for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:53:02 -0500 (CDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1999-Sep-4) Received: from veridian.com(really [192.168.50.250]) by mailcenter.csap.af.mil via sendmail with esmtp id for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:06:04 -0500 (CDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1999-Sep-8) Message-ID: <3B40F8C6.3435A871@veridian.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 17:42:14 -0500 From: CRG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, maillist@coastsight.com, sven.huster@mailsurf.com Subject: Question on making a custom release Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD warriors: Steps I took to try to make a release. Followed the FreeBSD FAQ about making a custom release: -------------------------------------------- supfile looks like this: *default host=cvsup3.freebsd.org *default base=/usr *default prefix=/usr/local/cvstree *default release=cvs *default delete compress use-rel-suffix src-all -------------------------------------------- Next Ran this command: cvsup -g supfile Then I: setenv CVSROOT /usr/local/cvstree cd /usr/src make buildworld cd /usr/src/release make release BUILDNAME=4.3-CUSTOM CHROOTDIR=/usr/local/latest43/release CVSROOT=/usr/local/cvstree NOPORTS=1 NODOC=1 ---------------------------------------------- Builds for a couple of hours then I get this error: -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Rebuilding man page indices -------------------------------------------------------------- cd /usr/src/share/man; make makedb makewhatis /usr/share/man makewhatis /usr/share/perl/man rm -rf /tmp/install.95817 -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> elf make world completed on Tue Jul 3 04:37:59 GMT 2001 (started Tue Jul 3 02:41:43 GMT 2001) -------------------------------------------------------------- + touch /tmp/.world_done + cd /usr/src/release/sysinstall cd: can't cd to /usr/src/release/sysinstall jett# *** Error code 2 Stop in /usr/src/release. I want to know which /usr/src/release/sysinstall? The one created in /usr/local/cvstree?, /usr/local/latest43/release?, or my /usr/src/release/sysinstall on my host machine. Note: My current kernel has the psuedo-device vn configure in and installed. I am root, but I did run cvsup as a user in the root's wheel group. So no /usr/local/latest43/release/R/ftp directory created. -Does anyone have any hints on what went wrong? -CRG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 16:19: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 100E737B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:18:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b047.otenet.gr [195.167.121.175]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f62NIjK02815 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 02:18:45 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.4/8.11.3) id f62FwRN03324 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:58:27 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:58:27 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: patch for cr_uid checks against zero in -CURRENT Message-ID: <20010702185826.A3253@hades.hell.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline I was reading handbook/contrib.html to find useful things to do today. There's a mention about replacing explicit checks of cr_uid against zero with calls to suser() or suser_xxx(). The following little script, was what I used to look for cr_uid occurences. #!/bin/sh ( find . -type f | xargs egrep -C5 'cr_uid' ) |\ sed -e 's/cr_uid/&/g' |\ less -r The output is rather long, and skimming through it, I found out that the following files contained explicit checks of cr_uid against zero: ./dev/digi/digi.c ./fs/msdosfs/msdosfs_vfsops.c ./fs/nwfs/nwfs_vnops.c ./fs/smbfs/smbfs_vnops.c ./fs/umapfs/umap_vnops.c ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_alloc.c ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_lookup.c ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_readwrite.c ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_vnops.c ./kern/kern_ktrace.c ./kern/kern_sig.c ./netinet/in_pcb.c ./netinet6/in6_pcb.c ./netinet6/ipsec.c ./netinet6/raw_ip6.c ./nfs/nfs_subs.c ./nfs/nfs_vnops.c ./ufs/ffs/ffs_alloc.c ./ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c I am not sure if I can test the attached patch for all the changes that it does, so here it is with any comments, suggestions, corrections, welcome :-) -giorgos --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="patch.cr_uid" Index: ./dev/digi/digi.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/dev/digi/digi.c,v retrieving revision 1.11 diff -c -u -r1.11 digi.c --- ./dev/digi/digi.c 2001/06/20 14:52:08 1.11 +++ ./dev/digi/digi.c 2001/07/02 15:30:18 @@ -801,7 +801,7 @@ } goto open_top; } - if (tp->t_state & TS_XCLUDE && p->p_ucred->cr_uid != 0) { + if (tp->t_state & TS_XCLUDE && suser(p)) { error = EBUSY; goto out; } Index: ./fs/msdosfs/msdosfs_vfsops.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/fs/msdosfs/msdosfs_vfsops.c,v retrieving revision 1.79 diff -c -u -r1.79 msdosfs_vfsops.c --- ./fs/msdosfs/msdosfs_vfsops.c 2001/06/28 03:47:50 1.79 +++ ./fs/msdosfs/msdosfs_vfsops.c 2001/07/02 15:31:47 @@ -263,7 +263,7 @@ * If upgrade to read-write by non-root, then verify * that user has necessary permissions on the device. */ - if (p->p_ucred->cr_uid != 0) { + if (suser(p)) { devvp = pmp->pm_devvp; vn_lock(devvp, LK_EXCLUSIVE | LK_RETRY, p); error = VOP_ACCESS(devvp, VREAD | VWRITE, @@ -310,7 +310,7 @@ * If mount by non-root, then verify that user has necessary * permissions on the device. */ - if (p->p_ucred->cr_uid != 0) { + if (suser(p)) { accessmode = VREAD; if ((mp->mnt_flag & MNT_RDONLY) == 0) accessmode |= VWRITE; Index: ./fs/nwfs/nwfs_vnops.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/fs/nwfs/nwfs_vnops.c,v retrieving revision 1.20 diff -c -u -r1.20 nwfs_vnops.c --- ./fs/nwfs/nwfs_vnops.c 2001/05/26 11:57:37 1.20 +++ ./fs/nwfs/nwfs_vnops.c 2001/07/02 15:32:20 @@ -150,7 +150,7 @@ break; } } - if (cred->cr_uid == 0) + if (suser_xxx(cred, 0, 0) == 0) return 0; if (cred->cr_uid != nmp->m.uid) { mode >>= 3; Index: ./fs/smbfs/smbfs_vnops.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/fs/smbfs/smbfs_vnops.c,v retrieving revision 1.2 diff -c -u -r1.2 smbfs_vnops.c --- ./fs/smbfs/smbfs_vnops.c 2001/04/29 11:48:34 1.2 +++ ./fs/smbfs/smbfs_vnops.c 2001/07/02 15:33:13 @@ -155,7 +155,7 @@ break; } } - if (cred->cr_uid == 0) + if (suser(cred, 0, 0) == 0) return 0; if (cred->cr_uid != smp->sm_args.uid) { mode >>= 3; Index: ./fs/umapfs/umap_vnops.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/fs/umapfs/umap_vnops.c,v retrieving revision 1.33 diff -c -u -r1.33 umap_vnops.c --- ./fs/umapfs/umap_vnops.c 2001/05/23 09:42:13 1.33 +++ ./fs/umapfs/umap_vnops.c 2001/07/02 15:36:04 @@ -152,7 +152,7 @@ (*credpp) = crdup(savecredp); credp = *credpp; - if (umap_bug_bypass && credp->cr_uid != 0) + if (umap_bug_bypass && suser_xxx(credp, 0, 0)) printf("umap_bypass: user was %lu, group %lu\n", (u_long)credp->cr_uid, (u_long)credp->cr_gid); @@ -160,7 +160,7 @@ umap_mapids(vp1->v_mount, credp); - if (umap_bug_bypass && credp->cr_uid != 0) + if (umap_bug_bypass && suser_xxx(credp, 0, 0)) printf("umap_bypass: user now %lu, group %lu\n", (u_long)credp->cr_uid, (u_long)credp->cr_gid); } @@ -180,7 +180,7 @@ (*compnamepp)->cn_cred = crdup(savecompcredp); compcredp = (*compnamepp)->cn_cred; - if (umap_bug_bypass && compcredp->cr_uid != 0) + if (umap_bug_bypass && suser_xxx(compcredp, 0, 0)) printf( "umap_bypass: component credit user was %lu, group %lu\n", (u_long)compcredp->cr_uid, @@ -190,7 +190,7 @@ umap_mapids(vp1->v_mount, compcredp); - if (umap_bug_bypass && compcredp->cr_uid != 0) + if (umap_bug_bypass && suser_xxx(compcredp, 0, 0)) printf( "umap_bypass: component credit user now %lu, group %lu\n", (u_long)compcredp->cr_uid, @@ -240,14 +240,14 @@ * Free duplicate cred structure and restore old one. */ if (descp->vdesc_cred_offset != VDESC_NO_OFFSET) { - if (umap_bug_bypass && credp && credp->cr_uid != 0) + if (umap_bug_bypass && credp && suser_xxx(credp, 0, 0)) printf("umap_bypass: returning-user was %lu\n", (u_long)credp->cr_uid); if (savecredp != NOCRED) { crfree(credp); (*credpp) = savecredp; - if (umap_bug_bypass && credpp && (*credpp)->cr_uid != 0) + if (umap_bug_bypass && credpp && suser_xxx((*credpp), 0, 0)) printf( "umap_bypass: returning-user now %lu\n\n", (u_long)(*credpp)->cr_uid); @@ -255,7 +255,7 @@ } if (descp->vdesc_componentname_offset != VDESC_NO_OFFSET) { - if (umap_bug_bypass && compcredp && compcredp->cr_uid != 0) + if (umap_bug_bypass && compcredp && suser_xxx(compcredp, 0, 0)) printf( "umap_bypass: returning-component-user was %lu\n", (u_long)compcredp->cr_uid); @@ -263,7 +263,7 @@ if (savecompcredp != NOCRED) { crfree(compcredp); (*compnamepp)->cn_cred = savecompcredp; - if (umap_bug_bypass && credpp && (*credpp)->cr_uid != 0) + if (umap_bug_bypass && credpp && suser_xxx((*credpp), 0, 0)) printf( "umap_bypass: returning-component-user now %lu\n", (u_long)compcredp->cr_uid); @@ -469,7 +469,7 @@ savecompcredp = compcredp; compcredp = compnamep->cn_cred = crdup(savecompcredp); - if (umap_bug_bypass && compcredp->cr_uid != 0) + if (umap_bug_bypass && suser_xxx(compcredp, 0, 0)) printf( "umap_rename: rename component credit user was %lu, group %lu\n", (u_long)compcredp->cr_uid, (u_long)compcredp->cr_gid); @@ -478,7 +478,7 @@ umap_mapids(vp->v_mount, compcredp); - if (umap_bug_bypass && compcredp->cr_uid != 0) + if (umap_bug_bypass && suser_xxx(compcredp, 0, 0)) printf( "umap_rename: rename component credit user now %lu, group %lu\n", (u_long)compcredp->cr_uid, (u_long)compcredp->cr_gid); Index: ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_alloc.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/gnu/ext2fs/ext2_alloc.c,v retrieving revision 1.30 diff -c -u -r1.30 ext2_alloc.c --- ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_alloc.c 2001/02/18 10:25:42 1.30 +++ ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_alloc.c 2001/07/02 15:37:05 @@ -125,7 +125,7 @@ #endif /* DIAGNOSTIC */ if (size == fs->s_blocksize && fs->s_es->s_free_blocks_count == 0) goto nospace; - if (cred->cr_uid != 0 && + if (suser_xxx(cred, 0, 0) && fs->s_es->s_free_blocks_count < fs->s_es->s_r_blocks_count) goto nospace; #if QUOTA Index: ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_lookup.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/gnu/ext2fs/ext2_lookup.c,v retrieving revision 1.26 diff -c -u -r1.26 ext2_lookup.c --- ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_lookup.c 2000/10/27 11:45:22 1.26 +++ ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_lookup.c 2001/07/02 15:37:30 @@ -610,7 +610,7 @@ * implements append-only directories. */ if ((dp->i_mode & ISVTX) && - cred->cr_uid != 0 && + suser_xxx(cred, 0, 0) && cred->cr_uid != dp->i_uid && VTOI(tdp)->i_uid != cred->cr_uid) { vput(tdp); Index: ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_readwrite.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/gnu/ext2fs/ext2_readwrite.c,v retrieving revision 1.22 diff -c -u -r1.22 ext2_readwrite.c --- ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_readwrite.c 2001/03/07 03:37:00 1.22 +++ ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_readwrite.c 2001/07/02 15:38:02 @@ -297,7 +297,7 @@ * we clear the setuid and setgid bits as a precaution against * tampering. */ - if (resid > uio->uio_resid && ap->a_cred && ap->a_cred->cr_uid != 0) + if (resid > uio->uio_resid && ap->a_cred && suser_xxx(ap->a_cred, 0, 0)) ip->i_mode &= ~(ISUID | ISGID); if (error) { if (ioflag & IO_UNIT) { Index: ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_vnops.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/gnu/ext2fs/ext2_vnops.c,v retrieving revision 1.56 diff -c -u -r1.56 ext2_vnops.c --- ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_vnops.c 2001/05/01 08:34:27 1.56 +++ ./gnu/ext2fs/ext2_vnops.c 2001/07/02 15:38:44 @@ -623,7 +623,7 @@ * otherwise the destination may not be changed (except by * root). This implements append-only directories. */ - if ((dp->i_mode & S_ISTXT) && tcnp->cn_cred->cr_uid != 0 && + if ((dp->i_mode & S_ISTXT) && suser_xxx(tcnp->cn_cred, 0, 0) && tcnp->cn_cred->cr_uid != dp->i_uid && xp->i_uid != tcnp->cn_cred->cr_uid) { error = EPERM; Index: ./kern/kern_ktrace.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/kern_ktrace.c,v retrieving revision 1.53 diff -c -u -r1.53 kern_ktrace.c --- ./kern/kern_ktrace.c 2001/05/25 16:59:06 1.53 +++ ./kern/kern_ktrace.c 2001/07/02 15:39:12 @@ -404,7 +404,7 @@ p->p_tracep = vp; } p->p_traceflag |= facs; - if (curp->p_ucred->cr_uid == 0) + if (suser(curp) == 0) p->p_traceflag |= KTRFAC_ROOT; } else { /* KTROP_CLEAR */ Index: ./kern/kern_sig.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/kern/kern_sig.c,v retrieving revision 1.123 diff -c -u -r1.123 kern_sig.c --- ./kern/kern_sig.c 2001/06/22 23:02:37 1.123 +++ ./kern/kern_sig.c 2001/07/02 15:40:17 @@ -100,7 +100,7 @@ * Policy -- Can ucred cr1 send SIGIO to process cr2? */ #define CANSIGIO(cr1, cr2) \ - ((cr1)->cr_uid == 0 || \ + (suser_xxx((cr1), 0, 0) == 0 || \ (cr2)->cr_ruid == (cr2)->cr_ruid || \ (cr2)->cr_uid == (cr2)->cr_ruid || \ (cr2)->cr_ruid == (cr2)->cr_uid || \ Index: ./netinet/in_pcb.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/netinet/in_pcb.c,v retrieving revision 1.85 diff -c -u -r1.85 in_pcb.c --- ./netinet/in_pcb.c 2001/06/29 12:07:29 1.85 +++ ./netinet/in_pcb.c 2001/07/02 15:41:21 @@ -223,7 +223,7 @@ return (EACCES); if (p && jailed(p->p_ucred)) prison = 1; - if (so->so_cred->cr_uid != 0 && + if (suser_xxx(so->so_cred, 0, 0) && !IN_MULTICAST(ntohl(sin->sin_addr.s_addr))) { t = in_pcblookup_local(inp->inp_pcbinfo, sin->sin_addr, lport, Index: ./netinet6/in6_pcb.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/netinet6/in6_pcb.c,v retrieving revision 1.15 diff -c -u -r1.15 in6_pcb.c --- ./netinet6/in6_pcb.c 2001/06/11 12:39:05 1.15 +++ ./netinet6/in6_pcb.c 2001/07/02 15:41:51 @@ -190,7 +190,7 @@ if (ntohs(lport) < IPV6PORT_RESERVED && p && suser_xxx(0, p, PRISON_ROOT)) return(EACCES); - if (so->so_cred->cr_uid != 0 && + if (suser_xxx(so->so_cred, 0, 0) && !IN6_IS_ADDR_MULTICAST(&sin6->sin6_addr)) { t = in6_pcblookup_local(pcbinfo, &sin6->sin6_addr, lport, Index: ./netinet6/ipsec.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/netinet6/ipsec.c,v retrieving revision 1.12 diff -c -u -r1.12 ipsec.c --- ./netinet6/ipsec.c 2001/06/11 12:39:06 1.12 +++ ./netinet6/ipsec.c 2001/07/02 15:42:39 @@ -1120,7 +1120,7 @@ } bzero(new, sizeof(*new)); - if (so->so_cred != 0 && so->so_cred->cr_uid == 0) + if (suser_xxx(so->so_cred, 0, 0) == 0) new->priv = 1; else new->priv = 0; Index: ./netinet6/raw_ip6.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/netinet6/raw_ip6.c,v retrieving revision 1.11 diff -c -u -r1.11 raw_ip6.c --- ./netinet6/raw_ip6.c 2001/06/11 12:39:06 1.11 +++ ./netinet6/raw_ip6.c 2001/07/02 15:43:12 @@ -326,7 +326,7 @@ in6p = sotoin6pcb(so); priv = 0; - if (so->so_cred->cr_uid == 0) + if (suser_xxx(so->so_cred, 0, 0) == 0) priv = 1; dst = &dstsock->sin6_addr; if (control) { Index: ./nfs/nfs_subs.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/nfs/nfs_subs.c,v retrieving revision 1.102 diff -c -u -r1.102 nfs_subs.c --- ./nfs/nfs_subs.c 2001/06/28 04:08:20 1.102 +++ ./nfs/nfs_subs.c 2001/07/02 15:43:44 @@ -1974,7 +1974,7 @@ vput(*vpp); *vpp = NULL; return (NFSERR_AUTHERR | AUTH_TOOWEAK); - } else if (cred->cr_uid == 0 || (exflags & MNT_EXPORTANON)) { + } else if (suser_xxx(cred, 0, 0) == 0 || (exflags & MNT_EXPORTANON)) { cred->cr_uid = credanon->cr_uid; for (i = 0; i < credanon->cr_ngroups && i < NGROUPS; i++) cred->cr_groups[i] = credanon->cr_groups[i]; Index: ./nfs/nfs_vnops.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/nfs/nfs_vnops.c,v retrieving revision 1.171 diff -c -u -r1.171 nfs_vnops.c --- ./nfs/nfs_vnops.c 2001/05/23 09:42:05 1.171 +++ ./nfs/nfs_vnops.c 2001/07/02 15:44:28 @@ -402,7 +402,7 @@ * After calling nfsspec_access, we should have the correct * file size cached. */ - if (ap->a_cred->cr_uid == 0 && (ap->a_mode & VREAD) + if (suser_xxx(ap->a_cred, 0, 0) == 0 && (ap->a_mode & VREAD) && VTONFS(vp)->n_size > 0) { struct iovec aiov; struct uio auio; @@ -3158,7 +3158,7 @@ * If you're the super-user, * you always get access. */ - if (cred->cr_uid == 0) + if (suser_xxx(cred, 0, 0) == 0) return (0); vap = &vattr; error = VOP_GETATTR(vp, vap, cred, ap->a_p); Index: ./ufs/ffs/ffs_alloc.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/ufs/ffs/ffs_alloc.c,v retrieving revision 1.80 diff -c -u -r1.80 ffs_alloc.c --- ./ufs/ffs/ffs_alloc.c 2001/06/15 07:44:39 1.80 +++ ./ufs/ffs/ffs_alloc.c 2001/07/02 15:45:15 @@ -126,7 +126,7 @@ #endif /* DIAGNOSTIC */ if (size == fs->fs_bsize && fs->fs_cstotal.cs_nbfree == 0) goto nospace; - if (cred->cr_uid != 0 && + if (suser_xxx(cred, 0, 0) != 0 && freespace(fs, fs->fs_minfree) - numfrags(fs, size) < 0) goto nospace; #ifdef QUOTA @@ -198,7 +198,7 @@ if (cred == NOCRED) panic("ffs_realloccg: missing credential"); #endif /* DIAGNOSTIC */ - if (cred->cr_uid != 0 && + if (suser_xxx(cred, 0, 0) != 0 && freespace(fs, fs->fs_minfree) - numfrags(fs, nsize - osize) < 0) goto nospace; if ((bprev = ip->i_db[lbprev]) == 0) { Index: ./ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c,v retrieving revision 1.157 diff -c -u -r1.157 ffs_vfsops.c --- ./ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c 2001/06/28 22:21:27 1.157 +++ ./ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c 2001/07/02 15:45:44 @@ -219,7 +219,7 @@ * If upgrade to read-write by non-root, then verify * that user has necessary permissions on the device. */ - if (p->p_ucred->cr_uid != 0) { + if (suser(p)) { vn_lock(devvp, LK_EXCLUSIVE | LK_RETRY, p); if ((error = VOP_ACCESS(devvp, VREAD | VWRITE, p->p_ucred, p)) != 0) { @@ -300,7 +300,7 @@ * If mount by non-root, then verify that user has necessary * permissions on the device. */ - if (p->p_ucred->cr_uid != 0) { + if (suser(p)) { accessmode = VREAD; if ((mp->mnt_flag & MNT_RDONLY) == 0) accessmode |= VWRITE; --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 17:21: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp5ve.mailsrvcs.net (smtp5vepub.gte.net [206.46.170.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1815237B409 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:21:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babkin@bellatlantic.net) Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-198-117-12.nnj.dialup.bellatlantic.net [151.198.117.12]) by smtp5ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA24164810; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:20:22 GMT Message-ID: <3B410FC5.191829D7@bellatlantic.net> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 20:20:21 -0400 From: Sergey Babkin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-19990626-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: nate@yogotech.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD References: <12d.dc435a.28724adf@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > > Entire PIII MBs are available for under $60. Your concept that the delta in > cost between a 486 chipset and PIII is more that that is utterly ridiculous > PIII chipsets and 486 chipsets cost the same in quantity. Try using a > resource other than your Radio Shack catalogue please. Now try to imagine a whole PC on a smaller board than a PIII CPU cartridge. If you can't, get a copy of the Embedded Systems magazine and look at the pictures in it. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 18:54:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.14.173.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9531237B403 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:54:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 4973 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jul 2001 01:54:24 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 01:54:24 -0000 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:54:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Andre Grosse Bley Cc: Subject: Re: TCP Problems in 4.3 ? In-Reply-To: <20010702110533.A45523@nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Message-ID: <20010702204926.K4818-100000@achilles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Andre Grosse Bley wrote: > Hello "Hackers", > > i think the tcp code in 4.3-RELEASE (and at least stable from last week) has > a serious bug in tcp handling: > > I use "LPRng 3.6.20" and openssh on the 4.3 box, lpd-server is on a 4.1 box. > Issuing 4-5 lpq's in a minute gives "Connection timed out". > First i thought it may be a problem with LPRng, but scp'ing large files > doesnt work anymore, too. Even ssh hangs sometimes. > I tried to disable the "newreno" stuff with sysctl, didnt change anything. > Why i suspect a tcp problem? Your description isn't exactly clear, but your problem may be fixed by applying the patch and following the directions in my recently posted message "Re: select fails to return incoming connect on FreeBSD-4.3" - see the freebsd-net archives. Note that the patch addresses _only_ problems with connections being established to the same host / port in a quick hurry. There are no known problems with connections terminating once a connection is established. I'm unable to ascertain which possibility you're describing when you say that scp transfers fail. If you're having trouble at the connection setup stage, apply the patch and flip the sysctl. Then see if it fixes your problem and get back to me. Thanks, Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 19: 8:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.14.173.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A3E37B401 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:08:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 5003 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jul 2001 02:08:44 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 02:08:44 -0000 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:08:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Cc: Andre Grosse Bley , Subject: Re: TCP Problems in 4.3 ? In-Reply-To: <200107021153.f62Brrw86776@bugz.infotecs.ru> Message-ID: <20010702210701.R4818-100000@achilles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Eugene L. Vorokov wrote: > I had similar problems with 4.3, my ssh and telnet sessions were giving > timeouts when they were inactive for about 2 hours (ofcourse this was > not an autologout or something). The problem was fixed when I downgraded > (for another reason) to 4.2. > > Regards, > Eugene Hm. 2 hours is exactly the amount of idle time which causes keepalives to be sent. However, I'm not away of any bugs in keepalive handling, and I just tested that 2 weeks ago (both between freebsd boxes and freebsd and windows 98.) Did you have TCP_COMPAT_42 defined? Can you provide any other information about the problem? Were you behind NAT or something strange? Thanks, Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 20:55:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from trinity.magpage.com (trinity.magpage.com [216.155.0.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E84837B405 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:55:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mikew@magpage.com) Received: from trinity (trinity [216.155.0.8]) by trinity.magpage.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f633tEP13031 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:55:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Wiacek To: Subject: ftpd.... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RRT-Status: UNKNOWN Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was looking at a bunch of bug reports, and quite a few pertain to ftpd. Anyone thinking about going through and just cleaning it up from head to toe? Not a complete rewrite or anything, but just alot of straightening up. If no one is doing this now, I have no problem attempting to tackle this. Anyone have any input or ideas before i set out on this? Mike Wiacek To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 22:46:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-64-169-104-161.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [64.169.104.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83F0C37B406 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:46:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 394E067B9B; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:46:50 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Mike Wiacek Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftpd.... Message-ID: <20010702224649.A30599@xor.obsecurity.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from mikew@magpage.com on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:55:14PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:55:14PM -0400, Mike Wiacek wrote: > I was looking at a bunch of bug reports, and quite a few pertain > to ftpd. Anyone thinking about going through and just cleaning it > up from head to toe? Not a complete rewrite or anything, but just > alot of straightening up. If no one is doing this now, I have no > problem attempting to tackle this. Anyone have any input or ideas > before i set out on this? Sane patches are always accepted. Kris --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7QVxJWry0BWjoQKURAlHKAKCBMkn6RxKNhJ5orFnzR8zDmGsvqQCg1vZb LFf2EgxG8lOIsy/SSKGsR7M= =D4WO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 2 22:48:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (dhcp44-21.dis.org [216.240.44.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36DEB37B403 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:48:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6361gU07027; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:01:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200107030601.f6361gU07027@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Mike Wiacek , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftpd.... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Jul 2001 22:46:50 PDT." <20010702224649.A30599@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:01:42 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Be aware that ftpd is likely to be replaced in the near future, as there's a strong desire to converge on the LukeM FTP tools. > --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > > On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:55:14PM -0400, Mike Wiacek wrote: > > I was looking at a bunch of bug reports, and quite a few pertain > > to ftpd. Anyone thinking about going through and just cleaning it > > up from head to toe? Not a complete rewrite or anything, but just > > alot of straightening up. If no one is doing this now, I have no > > problem attempting to tackle this. Anyone have any input or ideas > > before i set out on this? > > Sane patches are always accepted. > > Kris > > --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 > Content-Type: application/pgp-signature > Content-Disposition: inline > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org > > iD8DBQE7QVxJWry0BWjoQKURAlHKAKCBMkn6RxKNhJ5orFnzR8zDmGsvqQCg1vZb > LFf2EgxG8lOIsy/SSKGsR7M= > =D4WO > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 0:17:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sunu422.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (sunu422.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de [134.147.64.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3771237B40B for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:17:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gandalf@nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de) Received: (qmail 19473 invoked by alias); 3 Jul 2001 07:17:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 19453 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 07:17:38 -0000 Received: from server.nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (HELO fwall.nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de) (134.147.252.40) by mailhost.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 07:17:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 11764 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 07:17:44 -0000 Received: from server.nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (134.147.252.40) by server.nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 07:17:44 -0000 Received: (from gandalf@localhost) by server.nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (8.11.0/8.9.3) id f637Hh511760; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:17:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from gandalf) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:17:43 +0200 From: Andre Grosse Bley To: Mike Silbersack Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCP Problems in 4.3 ? Message-ID: <20010703091743.A11720@nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <20010702110533.A45523@nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <20010702204926.K4818-100000@achilles.silby.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20010702204926.K4818-100000@achilles.silby.com>; from silby@silby.com on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 08:54:24PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Mike, > Your description isn't exactly clear, but your problem may be fixed by > applying the patch and following the directions in my recently posted > message "Re: select fails to return incoming connect on FreeBSD-4.3" - see > the freebsd-net archives. Sorry, but i did not know how i can describe these troubles better. But: I applyed your patch, set net.inet.tcp.tcp_seq_genscheme: 1 -> 0 and both scp/LPRng work again. > Note that the patch addresses _only_ problems with connections > being established to the same host / port in a quick hurry. There are no Issuing several "lpq"s in a minute results to connections to the same host (printserver) and port. I dont know exactly how scp works, perhaps its just the same? Hope this will be commited to -stable soon Thanks, Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 1:59:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (gw.Awfulhak.org [217.204.245.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B797D37B435 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 01:59:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f638xcr57509; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:59:38 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f638xv252176; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:59:57 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200107030859.f638xv252176@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: John Toon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: Linux Applications Over PPP In-Reply-To: Message from John Toon of "Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:01:14 -0000." <3B40C4FA.2050001@btinternet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:59:57 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Brian Somers wrote: > > > The only strange occurrence I've seen that sounds even vaguely > > similar is that if you leave out a nameserver line in > > /compat/linux/etc/hosts, it *doesn't* default to 127.1. > > > > Try adding a nameserver line (if you haven't already got one). > > Thanks for the suggestion, but it has still not solved the problem. > > In fact there wasn't even a /compat/linux/etc/hosts file, so I created > one, containing the line: Oops, I meant /etc/resolv.conf... sorry. [.....] > John. -- Brian http://www.freebsd-services.com/ Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 2:41: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF1437B403; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 02:40:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.139.34.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.139.34]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA13395; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 02:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B419265.A6A1316D@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 02:37:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: Bernd Walter , Peter Pentchev , Chris Costello , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libc_r locking... why? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "E.B. Dreger" wrote: > Any good references on MP standard? Is the lock prefix > the only way to force cache coherency? Cache coherency is managed by the MESI (modified, exclusive, shared, invalid) protocol, in hardware. The basic issue that the lock addresses is provision of a barrier instruction, so that two processes (the original one, and the result of the rfork) don't try to enter a critical section at the same time (for example, a race to lock an fd or muck with signals), and the data cache is forced to be invalidated, even if the data is already in the pipeline (that's what the barrier instruction buys you). Generally, you will use a LOCK CMPXCHG to implement MP safe mutexes in user space. If you look at the kernel SMP locking, you can probably just take that code and use it, unmodified. The reason you need to do this is that the locking in the libc_r which you are using as a basis is not MP safe: it won't prevent one processor and the other from causing a race condition in user space as a result of two or more processors being in user space in the same VM at the same time. You can download the multiprocessing section of the Pentium programmers guide from the Intel web site; it has all the information on the APIC and other guts that make SMP possible. You can also download the Intel Multiprocessing specification, version 1.4, from their web site: http://developer.intel.com/design/PentiumII/manuals/24319002.PDF http://developer.intel.com/design/PentiumII/manuals/24319202.pdf http://developer.intel.com/design/pro/datashts/24201606.pdf The last one is the MP Spec, version 1.4. Note: These are some hulking big files, so don't try to download them over a slow link, unless you are willing to wait a very long time (e.g. hours, for all of them). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 3: 6:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 303B837B401; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 03:06:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.139.34.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.139.34]) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12079; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 03:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B419910.BF346FB4@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 03:06:08 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Idea Receiver Cc: "E.B. Dreger" , Chris Costello , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libc_r locking... why? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Idea Receiver wrote: > On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Terry Lambert wrote: > > If you "need" kernel threads, look at the Linux kernel > > threads in the ports collection (it's a kernel module > > that builds and installs as a package). You probably > > don't, since performance of kernel threads is really only > > about a 20% increment, if you implement them the SVR4 or > > Solaris (pre-2.7) or Linux way. It's probably better to > > implement with FreeBSD threads as they currently exist, > > and get massive SMP scalability when KSE's are brought > > into the source tree. > > > > just a quick question... > I konw KSE will brought in after SMPng. > but it will be really helpful to konw when it will first appear > in the source tree? They went over the design at Usenix in Boston last week; there was a big FreeBSD BOF. I believe the design is now frozen. > or what other OS can help with SMP vs pthread problem? Solaris 8 & 9 have pretty good code in this area, but are limited on scaling due to a lot of bus contention; most SVR4 derivatives claim that 4 CPUs in one box are the point of diminishing returns. Big iron from Sun is actually semi-NUMA architecture, i.e. they have loosely coupled clusters of hardware, with only a small number of shared memory multiprocessors in the same contention domain, thus avoiding the scaling issue. A couple of good starting points for looking at NUMA are: http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/12857.html http://www.ibm.com/servers/eserver/xseries/numa/index.html The last one there is the former Sequent, which was bought out by IBM. Historically, Sequent has been at the forefront of SMP systems; they were able to scale to 32 processors; they had a special bus, and ran without Intel APICs (you can only have 32 APICs, since that's all the ID space can handle, and at least one of them has to be an I/O APIC, which means using Intel's approach, you are maxed out at 31 processors and one I/O APIC; usually 30/2, actually. Sequent had a BSD-based OS called Dynix, which had a lot of smart things in it, including per processor resource pools, which is what enabled it to scale so large: it removed everything it could from the inter-CPU contention domain. FreeBSD is trying to take much of that approach. Unfortunately, they went to System V (SVR3), which then introduced a big giant lock on SMP-unsafe subsystems; in particular, only one processor was allowed into the VFS at a time, which sucked -- if you started two "ls -R" processes on two processors, then one would complete, and then the other -- but the second one wouldn't start until the lock was let go, so they were effectively being serialized, while one CPU was idle. It really ruined the usefulness of the machine. Other OSs have their own problems: VxWorks, the NetApp OS, and NetWare are all pretty allergic to SMP, since they use voluntary cooperative multitasking, where you either have to call an explicit yield, or you have to run to completion; this is very hard to SMP-ize, since you end up having to add in all of the locking that you left out to get the light weight multitasking, and they generally do not implement a seperate protection domain at all, which makes it hard to have more than one processor running at once in any case; in FreeBSD, you can have multiple CPUs in user space, but only one CPU in the kernel at a time. The -current branch tries to change this, but it's really rough going. Frankly, I predict that a fork is likely; I expect that many people will not move off the 4.x branch to 5.0, when it becomes available. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 3:17:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467B937B403; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 03:17:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.139.34.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.139.34]) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA03857; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 03:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B419BA8.3D93EB5A@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 03:17:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: Chris Costello , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libc_r locking... why? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "E.B. Dreger" wrote: > [ libc_r locks don't assert "lock", not MP-safe ] > > So the "lock" prefix is the only way to enforce cache coherency? > Do you have handy a good reference on IPIs, other than the kernel > APIC code (and, of course, Google and NorthernLight searches)? See other posting. > Good to know, but, I'm not using libc_r... I was looking at > existing code to help me double-check mine as I go. I'm > synchronizing processes with a "giant lock" token that each > process cooperatively passes to the next... to simplify: > > who_has_lock++ ; > who_has_lock %= process_count ; Your unsimplified assembly is not happy, and neither is this. You want to use a LOCK CMPXCHG to implement your mutexes; the LOCK prefix makes it a barrier instruction, which is needed to ensure that two processors don't operate on their L1 cache contents, and then both attempt to write back, where one wins the race, but both think they own the lock. > Each processes' critical path first checks to see if it holds > the token; if so, it performs the tasks that require it, such as > locking a finer-grained lock or mutex. It then passes the token, > and continues through its critical path. You aren't going to be able to safely hand this off if they are running on two different processors in user space. You _must_ implement an MP safe mutex. > If a thread has nothing to do, I nanosleep(2) to prevent the critical > path from degenerating to an extended spin. I'm considering using > socketpair(2)s, with a process blocking indefinitely on read(2) until > another process write(2)s to awaken it... This would work, but it will destroy your SMP scaling that you want to achieve, since you will effectively serialize your processes running. > > If you "need" kernel threads, look at the Linux kernel > > threads in the ports collection (it's a kernel module > > that builds and installs as a package). You probably > > don't, since performance of kernel threads is really only > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only place in my model that really > might benefit from kthreads would be the scheduling? i.e., rather > than screwing around with nanosleep(2) or socket calls, I could cut > the cruft and interact more directly with the scheduler via kthread > mechanisms? Not really. That's the problem with Linux threads: you don't get thread-group affinity, so if you are running anything on your system besides your threaded application, you tend to take full heavy-weight context switches. Some work was done on the Linux scheduler to try and get this affinity, but you really can't do that sanely in the scheduler: it's the wrong place to attack the problem. The planned FreeBSD approach can fix this, if it's implemented correctly, since as long as you have user space threads that are ready to run, you will run out your entire quantum, and do light weight switches from one thread to another within the same process. > > about a 20% increment, if you implement them the SVR4 or > > Solaris (pre-2.7) or Linux way. It's probably better to > > implement with FreeBSD threads as they currently exist, > > and get massive SMP scalability when KSE's are brought > > into the source tree. > > KSEs... where can I read up? http://people.freebsd.org/~jasone/kse/ -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 4: 0:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05A6637B401; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:00:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.139.34.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.139.34]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10518; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B41A5CD.7F5FF288@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 04:00:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: "Michael C . Wu" , Matthew Rogers , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: CPU affinity hinting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "E.B. Dreger" wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 21:44:43 -0500 > > From: Michael C . Wu > > > > The issue is a lot more complicated than what you think. > > How so? I know that idleproc and the new ipending / threaded INTs > enter the picture... and, after seeing the "HLT benchmark" page, it > would appear that simply doing nothing is sometimes better than > doing something, although I'm still scratching my head over that... HLT'ing reduces the overall temperature and power consumption. The current SMP-aware scheduler can't really HLT because the processors have to spin on the acquisition of the lock. > > This actually is a big issue in our future SMP implementation. > > I presumed as much; the examples I gave were trivial. > > I also assume that memory allocation is a major issue... to > not waste time with inter-CPU locking, I'd assume that memory > would be split into pools, a la Hoard. Maybe start with > approx. NPROC count equally-sized pools, which are roughly > earmarked per hypothetical process. Yes, though my personal view of that Horde allocator is that it's not nice, and I don't want to see "garbage collection" in the kernel. The mbuf allocator that has been bandied around is a specialization of the allocator that Alfred has been playing with, which is intended to address this issue. The problem with the implementations as they currently exists is that they end up locking a lot, in what I consider to be unnecessary overhead, to permit one CPU to free back to another's pool ("buckets"); this is actually much better handled by having a "dead pool" on a per CPU basis, which only gets linked onto when the free crosses a domain boundary. The actual idea for per-CPU resource pools comes from Dynix; it's described in their Usenix paper (1991), and in Vahalia's book, in chapter 12 (I actaully disagreed with his preference for the SLAB allocator, when I was doing the technical review on the book for Prentice-Hall, prior to its publication, because of this issue; most of the rest of the book, we agreed on everything else, and it was just minor nits about language, additional references, etc.. So there's a lot of prior art by a lot of smart people that FreeBSD can and has drawn upon. > I'm assuming that memory allocations are 1:1 mappable wrt > processes. Yes, I know that's faulty and oversimplified, > particularly for things like buffers and filesystem cache. FreeBSD has a unified VM and buffer cache. VM _is_ FS cache _is_ buffers. But actually your assumption is really wrong. That's because if you have a single process with multiple threads, then the threads want negaffinity -- they want to try to ensure that they are not running on the same CPU, so that they can optimize the amount of simultaneous compute resources. > > There are two types of processor affinity: user-configurable > > and system automated. We have no implementation of the former, > > Again, why not "hash(sys_auto, user_config) % NCPU"? Identical > processes would be on same CPU unless perturbed by user_config. > Collisions from identical user_config values in unrelated > processes would be less likely because of the sys_auto pertubation. > > Granted: It Is Always More Complicated. (TM) But for a first pass... The correct way to handle this is to have per CPU run queues, and only migrate processes between the queues under extraordinary circumstances (e.g. intentionally, for load balancing. Thus KSEs tend to stay put on the CPU they are run on. You also want negaffinity, as noted above. In the simple case, this can be achieved by having a 32 bit value (since you can have at most 32 processors because of the APIC ID limitation) in the proc struct; you start new KSEs on the processors whose bits are still set in the value; when a process is started initially, a bitmap of the existing CPUs is copied in as part of the startup. Bits are cleared as a process gets KSEs on each seperate CPU. Migration tries to keep KSEs on different CPUs. Each CPU has an input queue as well, which lets another CPU "hand off" processes to it, based on load. The input queue is locked for a handoff, and for a read, if the queue head is non-null, on entry to the per CPU copy of the scheduler. Thus under normal circumstances, when there is nothing in the queue, there are zero locks to deal with. Doing it this way also lets us put the HLT back into the scheduler idle loop, without losing on interrupts, since the HLT was only taken out in order to cause the CPU that didn't currently have access to the scheduler to spin on the lock until the other CPU went to user space to do work. A final piece of the puzzle is a figure of merit for guaging the CPU load for a given processor, to decide when to migrate. This can be an unlocked read-only value for other processors to decide whether to shed load to your processor, or not, based on their load being much higher than yours. To avoid barrier instructions, it's probably worth putting this information in a per CPU data page that can be seen by other CPUs, which also contains the queue head for the handoff queue (the input queue, above); barriers are avoided by marking these pages as non-cacheable. > > and alfred-vm has a semblance of the latter. Please wait > > patiently..... > > Or, if impatient, would one continue to brainstorm, not expect a > response (i.e., not get disappointed when something basic is posted), > and track -current after the destabilization? :-) I've had a number of conversations with Alfred on the ideas outlined briefly, above, and on his thoughts on the subject (he and I work at the same place). Alfred has experimental code which does per CPU run queues, as described above, and he has some other code which lets him "lock" a process onto a particular CPU (I personally don't think that's terrifically useful, in the grand scheme of things, but you can get the same effect by having a "don't migrate this process" bit, and simply not shedding it to another CPU, regardless of load. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 4: 9:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07E2837B405 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:09:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.139.34.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.139.34]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA25398; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B41A7EF.94F400D9@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 04:09:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nate Williams Cc: Arun Sharma , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Java (Was Re: NGPT 1.0.0 port to freebsd) References: <20010629010159.A8557@sharmas.dhs.org> <15164.39221.111336.661501@nomad.yogotech.com> <20010629102214.A10651@sharmas.dhs.org> <15164.48804.197019.760751@nomad.yogotech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams wrote: > Actually, it's the reason that Sun is doing the dance with us right > now. The whole Java affair has been a series of mis-steps by all > parties (myself, BSDi, and Sun), so no one party shares the entire > blame. The most recent issue was the BSDi/WindRiver acquisition, > which left us w/out any legal advisors (unless we wanted to pay out > of the pocket, which would have cost upwards of $2K to solve, not > something I can affort). Get on the FreeBSD Foundation funded projects list to get some legal representation. Now that it's a non-profit, people could donate to fund the lawyering you need done, and take it as a tax deduction. I think one of the most valuable things that the new foundation will be able to bring to the table is the ability to get things like this funded, and act as a sort of a clearing-house for this type of work. Also, many companies have a charitable contribution matching program for tax exempt charities; IBM will match employee contributions to such charities on a dollar-for-dollar basis, up to some ungodly amount. I could also see appreciated stock donations -- if you donate appreciated stock, you can deduct the full current value, but not have to pay AMT on it... so you win coming and going. FWIW: If anyone is planning on taking advantage of this, they should definitely consult their tax advisor, since there are limits and restrictions on how this stuff has to be done. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 4:20:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D183B37B401; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:20:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.139.34.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.139.34]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14242; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B41AAAA.3EC17263@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 04:21:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: "E.B. Dreger" , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quick question: AIO / SMP / process-based threading References: <20010630005749.A72545@peorth.iteration.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Michael C . Wu" wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 05:47:49AM +0000, E.B. Dreger scribbled: > | 1. Is AIO SMP-safe? > > AIO is not safe, SMP or not. Are you maybe confusion AIO (a POSIX mandated API) with async mounts? AIO works fine, I think, and is happy with SMP. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 4:31:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 735E237B406 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:31:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.139.34.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.139.34]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04646; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B41AD2D.792A50D5@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 04:31:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Len Conrad Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern.maxproc References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010630174654.03c870c8@mail.Go2France.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Len Conrad wrote: > = > I need about 1000 processes for a high-volume mail gateway. > I=B4m already getting errors in peak periods with the default > maxproc of 530. > = > It seems I can=B4t set this in loader.conf, as I can other > read-only params. > = > Do I have to install the source and recompile? Pretty much, yes. I personally added a "tunable" wrapper for it so I could set it in loader.conf. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 4:37:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FCD437B403 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:37:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.139.34.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.139.34]) by harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13847; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B41AEB2.5E227D64@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 04:38:26 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > > Again, you are only considering your personal case. If > > crypto should be needed on an embedded appliance, I don't > > think they would need a lightning-fast processor and VGA > > support, when crypto is all they want. > > Your premise that "embedded appliances" are somehow doomed to > use pitifully outdated processors is simply wrong. Embedded > MBs with speeds enough to eliminate the requirement for 1) a > slot and 2) an external board are available for less than the > delta in cost. So, logically speaking, anyone with a requirement > for crypto would simply chose a faster embedded MB solution. > > Listen, Im not trying to say that your project has no merit. > My post was originally meant to illustrate to others, who may > have been unduly excited about the prospects, that such a product > does not buy you much in a normal environment. I think that now > we have established that its merits are limted to low-speed > embedded solutions, which is just was I was trying to say. ClickArray uses the BroadCom 4-crypto-engines-per-board, even though the main CPU speed is very, very high (GHz range). Using the card to offload handshakes speeds things up considerably, though it is still faster to do the actual SSL termination on the main CPU. The next generation of the board they've announced has 16 engines per board, instead of just 4. The messay part of SSL is the 1024 bit key generation, which is definitely _not_ best done on the main CPU. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 5:27:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA07C37B401 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:27:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.139.34.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.139.34]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08714; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B41BA57.48F3788A@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 05:28:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: nate@yogotech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD References: <12d.dc435a.28724adf@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > Entire PIII MBs are available for under $60. Your concept > that the delta in cost between a 486 chipset and PIII is > more that that is utterly ridiculous PIII chipsets and 486 > chipsets cost the same in quantity. Try using a resource > other than your Radio Shack catalogue please. Actually, I can get a 486 macrocell and etherenet controllers, along with a big chunk of RAM, a North Bridge, etc., all put on a single die, and go to fab for under $30,000. I can do the same thing with a PPC603e core, using IBM's "Blue Logic" library. If I'm building an embedded system, I really don't need more horseposer than that, and being able to run without a fan, and fit into the form-factor of a modem or a set top box is generally much more important. You know that FreeBSD can be netboot onto the Apple "AirPort" base station, right? Footprint is the name of the game, when you are building embedded systems; when we did the InterJet and InterJet II at Whistle/IBM, we ran with self-designed motherboards. The InterJet had a built-in UPS. We funded the Soft Updates work, and had a custom power supply with a very long DC hold-up time following AC fail in order to get rid of the UPS. One of our main mistakes in the InterJet II, IMO, was going to a higher power CPU, which needed a fan on the CPU, and a fan in the case, as a result us the Cyrix Media GX processor, which was mostly there to do crypto. We would have been much better off with rolling the cost savings of continuing to use a 486 class CPU into the profitability of the product, and putting a dumb crypto chipset on the board to handle the load (IBM even makes a chipset perfect for this, and IBM had bought us by the time the InterJet II design got finalized). One other thing to realize is that every $1 in cost ends up turning into $2 to the customer, so installing another serial port connector when you don't need to is a very costly proposition. I'm now working on an appliance device (rackmount). It is based on a general purpose motherboard right now (as you suggest), but it still has crypto hardware to push up the connection rate for SSL connections. We will need to eventually go to a special purpose motherboard, so that we can have things like watchdog timers, etc., which are missing from general purpose computers. All told, I've now worked on 4 embedded systems that use FreeBSD. I think you'll find that Wes Peters has worked on a number of them as well (one of his is now called "Intel InBusiness" servers). Most of us were extremely pissed off when /dev/random went in and made 386 and 486 class hardware crawl on its knees, since embedded systems have different requirements for things like moving parts, heat dissipation, etc., than general purpose computers posing as embedded systems. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 5:36:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F068537B403; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:36:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.139.34.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.139.34]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29737; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B41BC54.309D58F2@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 05:36:36 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Dean Cc: freebsd-audit@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel ddb patch for setting hardware watchpoints References: <20010630172522.A64393@neutrino.bsdhome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian Dean wrote: > Caveats: This patch won't do the right thing on SMP systems. The > debug registers are set/cleared only for the CPU running ddb. > Since the debug registers are a per-cpu thing, they won't be > set for the other CPUs. I'll work on that next. FWIW: When you enter into the debugger on an SMP system, it holds all processors other than the boot processor; it restarts them on exit. This means that in single step mode, you will need to ensure that the BP has the registers set. It also means that you probably are going to have a tough time with the signalling in the MP case, where the modification hits on an AP, since an AP can't drop into the debugger. This may not be true in 5.x any more, but in 4.3, you should look at the mp debugger code in /sys/i386/i386. Probably, you will want to take the watchpoint, and then IPI the boot processor, similar to the way a CTRL-ALT-ESC does things (only using an IPI). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 8:25:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9AC237B408 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=9fa154475b06f12ced4b6a446d6dbc58) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15HS7b-0000m5-00; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:29:51 -0600 Message-ID: <3B41E4EF.D2584082@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:29:51 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sergey Babkin Cc: Bsdguru@aol.com, nate@yogotech.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD References: <12d.dc435a.28724adf@aol.com> <3B410FC5.191829D7@bellatlantic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sergey Babkin wrote: > > Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > > > > Entire PIII MBs are available for under $60. Your concept that the delta in > > cost between a 486 chipset and PIII is more that that is utterly ridiculous > > PIII chipsets and 486 chipsets cost the same in quantity. Try using a > > resource other than your Radio Shack catalogue please. > > Now try to imagine a whole PC on a smaller board than a PIII CPU > cartridge. If you can't, get a copy of the Embedded Systems magazine > and look at the pictures in it. Now try to imagine an entire computer system on an 8-pin chip. The world of embedded systems spans a huge range of capabilities, but PIII's are not common because they cost too much, take too many resources in terms of support chips, and produce WAY too much heat. It's pretty difficult to put a $180 CPU chip in a router that sells for $199 retail. This entire conversation has been incredibly stupid, based on one contender displaying his abject ignorance of what embedded systems are and everyone else trying to teach the pig to sing. Can we just stop this? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 8:40: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42E037B403 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=85cc3b134ab21195b148809cbb2606b1) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15HSM2-0000mM-00; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:44:46 -0600 Message-ID: <3B41E86E.AED9E1D3@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:44:46 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Terrell Cc: Cyrille Lefevre , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: import NetBSD rc system References: <20010613202415.A3689@core.usrlib.org> <4rtjnv83.fsf@gits.dyndns.org> <20010702152646.B11363@pianosa.catch22.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Terrell wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 01:42:36PM +0200, Cyrille Lefevre wrote: > > in fact, the require keyword isn't sufficient in it's own. there > > should be pre_require and post_require keywords since nfsd needs to > > start mountd before to start nfsd then rpc.statd and rpc.lockd have to > > be started after nfsd. > > Sorry to jump in an old discussion, I don't read fbsd-hackers often > enough, apparently. > > In this situation, wouldn't you rather take the solaris option of > putting "nfs_servers" in their own startup option and start the > servers desired (maybe you don't want rpc.lockd) according to normal > rc.conf knobs. For services as tightly coupled as this that seems > like a much better way of guaranteeing ordering, and the whole package > could then depend on portmap. > > It's not like you'd ever want nfsd and not mountd, or vice versa. That's easy enough to do. With processes that are intrinsically linked like nfs and mountd, you start them from the same script. For services that are linked only by requirement, like nfs serving vs. rpc, you use the dependency controls. Nobody said the NetBSD rc system removed the need for programmers to think. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 8:57:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from proxon.bnc.net (proxon.bnc.net [62.225.99.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 643EE37B406 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from noses@proxon.bnc.net) Received: (from noses@localhost) by proxon.bnc.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f63FvBN61057; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:57:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from noses) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:57:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200107031557.f63FvBN61057@proxon.bnc.net> From: Noses To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD Organization: Noses' cave In-Reply-To: <3B410FC5.191829D7@bellatlantic.net> User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <3B410FC5.191829D7@bellatlantic.net> babkin@bellatlantic.net (Sergey Babkin) wrote: > Now try to imagine a whole PC on a smaller board than a PIII CPU > cartridge. If you can't, get a copy of the Embedded Systems magazine > and look at the pictures in it. Imagine a complete 80186 system with 512k RAM and 512K flash disk, two serial ports, 14 digital IO lines and an Ethernet in a 32 pin DIL package. They are planning to replace the 80186 module by a 80386 in a few weeks. If you can't belive it you might take a look at www.bcl.de. Now if it only had enough flash for a PicoBSD it might make a good pocket ISDN router... Noses. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 9: 3:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C432137B401; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:03:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@mail.cicely.de) Received: from mail.cicely.de (cicely20 [10.1.1.22]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f63G3Wh89226; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:03:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by mail.cicely.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f63G4GR01163; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:04:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:04:16 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: Mike Smith Cc: Kris Kennaway , Mike Wiacek , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftpd.... Message-ID: <20010703180415.A29972@cicely20.cicely.de> References: <20010702224649.A30599@xor.obsecurity.org> <200107030601.f6361gU07027@mass.dis.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107030601.f6361gU07027@mass.dis.org>; from msmith@FreeBSD.ORG on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:01:42PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:01:42PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > Be aware that ftpd is likely to be replaced in the near future, as > there's a strong desire to converge on the LukeM FTP tools. I'm surprised. I don't see big wins - at least for ftpd. Well the -r option looks fine but shouldn't be hard to import. On the other side there are goodies like sendfile and daemon mode in the current ftpd. What am I missing here? -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de Usergroup info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 9:24:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpproxy1.mitre.org (mb-20-100.mitre.org [129.83.20.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5306737B401 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:24:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlsmith@mitre.org) Received: from avsrv1.mitre.org (avsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.58]) by smtpproxy1.mitre.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f63GOkD20970 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f63GOjX27542 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mm49746-2k.mitre.org (128.29.118.119) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 6951949; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:23:56 -0400 Message-ID: <3B41F252.32882BE7@mitre.org> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:26:58 -0400 From: Mike Smith Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-20010313M (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Config devices not in machine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm new to FreeBSD (come from the *gasp* System V and RTU world) so I hope this is the correct list for this. ( I'm sure I will be told if it's not :-} ) Is there ANY penalty for having a device in your config file that is not in your system?? I am inheriting a 40 machine laboratory. My predecessor decided to go to a single config/kernel for all machines I'm sure for administrative convenience. I'm trying to determine if there is any major penalty for using this single "source" for all machines. Since we are doing significant hacks on FreeBSD to support proprietary FAA protocols and equipment obsolete to the rest of the world, I want to have as clean a kernel as possible to start from. BTW, after 2 weeks, I LOVE this OS! Mike Smith mlsmith@mitre.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 9:31:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32EAE37B403 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:31:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f63GV8q10089; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:31:08 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:31:07 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Config devices not in machine Message-ID: <20010703113107.E25927@futuresouth.com> References: <3B41F252.32882BE7@mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B41F252.32882BE7@mitre.org>; from mlsmith@mitre.org on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 12:26:58PM -0400 X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 12:26:58PM -0400, a little birdie told me that Mike Smith remarked > I'm new to FreeBSD (come from the *gasp* System V and RTU world) so I > hope this is the correct list for this. ( I'm sure I will be told if > it's not :-} ) > > Is there ANY penalty for having a device in your config file that is not > in your system?? It eats some RAM. It will waste a bit of time on the bootup probes (we're talking seconds, if that much) It takes a bit longer to compile (of course, far less than compiling 40 seperate kernels!) It's possible with some ISA devices that you can have conflicts, but you can generally work around those by disabling them in the kernel.conf either manually or from the boot -c editor (the changes were stored in the kernel binary in older versions, but anything reasonably recent will use the /boot/kernel.conf file). I am by no means the final authority on this, of course; but in my experience, you're going to see fractions of a percent increase in resource usage (primarily RAM) and some possible slight administrative overhead with conflict resolution. Far better solution, I'd say, than trying to customize everything. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Unix Systems Administrator | fullermd@futuresouth.com Specializing in FreeBSD | http://www.over-yonder.net/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 9:42:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmonster.de (datasink.webmonster.de [194.162.162.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4BCD137B401 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:42:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karsten@rohrbach.de) Received: (qmail 23838 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jul 2001 16:43:08 -0000 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:43:08 +0200 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Ian Trudel Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Q] msgs Message-ID: <20010703184308.B23688@mail.webmonster.de> Mail-Followup-To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , Ian Trudel , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010702114249.A35512@mecenia.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010702114249.A35512@mecenia.org>; from ian@mecenia.org on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:43:11AM -0400 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-URL: http://www.webmonster.de/ X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable omit the space? /k Ian Trudel(ian@mecenia.org)@2001.07.02 11:43:11 +0000: > Hello, >=20 > msgs reminded me the old UNIX news command and then, I started to > fiddle around it. As I want to post stuff, it works good with msgs -s. > However, in the man pages, they suggest: >=20 > The line > msgs: "| /usr/bin/msgs -s" >=20 > should be included in /etc/mail/aliases (see newaliases(1)) to enable > posting of messages. >=20 > after running newaliases, I expected (maybe shouldn't I?) I could email to > msgs 'user' to post a news. But I'm getting an error: >=20 > Jul 2 11:17:45 gateway sendmail[35214]: f62FHjx35214: from=3Droot, size= =3D48, class=3D0, nrcpts=3D1, msgid=3D<200107021517.f62FHjx35214@mecenia.or= g>, relay=3Droot@localhost > Jul 2 11:17:45 gateway sendmail[35216]: f62FHjx35214: to=3D"| /usr/bin/m= sgs -s", ctladdr=3Dmsgs (1/0), delay=3D00:00:00, xdelay=3D00:00:00, mailer= =3Dprog, pri=3D30048, dsn=3D5.3.0, stat=3Dunknown mailer error 13 > Jul 2 11:17:45 gateway sendmail[35216]: f62FHjx35214: f62FHjw35216: DSN:= unknown mailer error 13 >=20 > and hints? >=20 > regards, > ian >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message --=20 > Sex is the poor man's opera. --G. B. Shaw KR433/KR11-RIPE -- WebMonster Community Founder -- nGENn GmbH Senior Techie http://www.webmonster.de/ -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de/ -- http://www.ngenn.n= et/ karsten&rohrbach.de -- alpha&ngenn.net -- alpha&scene.org -- catch@spam.de GnuPG 0x2964BF46 2001-03-15 42F9 9FFF 50D4 2F38 DBEE DF22 3340 4F4E 2964 B= F46 Please do not remove my address from To: and Cc: fields in mailing lists. 1= 0x --hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7QfYcM0BPTilkv0YRAiCMAKCbE5aaQM7/F/Z2scVhiuefyb0Z0wCbBJ2x 4jTV/mRodv9urfyySZ7Fj1E= =end1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 9:47:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C26237B401 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:47:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id n.74.c9a1800 (3974) for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:47:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: <74.c9a1800.2873510f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:47:11 EDT Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 07/03/2001 11:57:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, noses@noses.com writes: > > Now try to imagine a whole PC on a smaller board than a PIII CPU > > cartridge. If you can't, get a copy of the Embedded Systems magazine > > and look at the pictures in it. > > Imagine a complete 80186 system with 512k RAM and 512K flash disk, two > serial ports, 14 digital IO lines and an Ethernet in a 32 pin DIL package. > They are planning to replace the 80186 module by a 80386 in a few weeks. > If you can't belive it you might take a look at www.bcl.de. Now if it only > had enough flash for a PicoBSD it might make a good pocket ISDN router... > We can "picture" it, but such a system can't route a full 100mb/s ethernet, so its fairly useless as a network device/router as is proposed here. B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 9:53:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmonster.de (datasink.webmonster.de [194.162.162.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 33F2837B403 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:53:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karsten@rohrbach.de) Received: (qmail 24202 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jul 2001 16:54:02 -0000 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:54:02 +0200 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Mike Smith Cc: Kris Kennaway , Mike Wiacek , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftpd.... Message-ID: <20010703185402.D23688@mail.webmonster.de> Mail-Followup-To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , Mike Smith , Kris Kennaway , Mike Wiacek , hackers@freebsd.org References: <20010702224649.A30599@xor.obsecurity.org> <200107030601.f6361gU07027@mass.dis.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5p8PegU4iirBW1oA" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107030601.f6361gU07027@mass.dis.org>; from msmith@freebsd.org on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 11:01:42PM -0700 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-URL: http://www.webmonster.de/ X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --5p8PegU4iirBW1oA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike Smith(msmith@freebsd.org)@2001.07.02 23:01:42 +0000: >=20 > Be aware that ftpd is likely to be replaced in the near future, as=20 > there's a strong desire to converge on the LukeM FTP tools. no matter how nice lukemftpd looks (i got it running on several boxes since it was the only choice for plug-in replacement and getting rid of wu-ftpd), please keep in mind that it would be a nice thing[tm] to get a decent logging system in place before making it default ;-) for seom of us, syslog is not an option. /k --=20 > knowledge is power. power corrupts. study hard, be evil KR433/KR11-RIPE -- WebMonster Community Founder -- nGENn GmbH Senior Techie http://www.webmonster.de/ -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de/ -- http://www.ngenn.n= et/ karsten&rohrbach.de -- alpha&ngenn.net -- alpha&scene.org -- catch@spam.de GnuPG 0x2964BF46 2001-03-15 42F9 9FFF 50D4 2F38 DBEE DF22 3340 4F4E 2964 B= F46 Please do not remove my address from To: and Cc: fields in mailing lists. 1= 0x --5p8PegU4iirBW1oA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7QfiqM0BPTilkv0YRAiteAKCnogV6YmqJABPMuDrPygrtShEp0ACgp4lY y9w4mkQuuNEpbCxhnVkWd/Q= =/Px3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5p8PegU4iirBW1oA-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 10:37:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2325437B401 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:37:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (InterJet.elischer.org [192.168.1.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18343; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:02:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Config devices not in machine In-Reply-To: <3B41F252.32882BE7@mitre.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Mike Smith wrote: > I'm new to FreeBSD (come from the *gasp* System V and RTU world) so I > hope this is the correct list for this. ( I'm sure I will be told if > it's not :-} ) You probably should ahve asked in "questions@freebsd.org" as it's not a very technical question, but not a disaster.. In answer to your question, the only downsides to having unused drivers in your kernel are: 1/ extra ISA-non-PNP drivers make teh boot slower as they look for their hardware. 2/ extra ISA-non-PNP drivers may interfere with other hardware while they are looking for their hardware. (rare) 3/ extra drivers take up extra space (GENERIC can usually shed about 600K if you strip out everything you don't want or need) > > Is there ANY penalty for having a device in your config file that is not > in your system?? > > I am inheriting a 40 machine laboratory. My predecessor decided to go to > a single config/kernel for all machines I'm sure for administrative > convenience. I'm trying to determine if there is any major penalty for > using this single "source" for all machines. > > Since we are doing significant hacks on FreeBSD to support proprietary > FAA protocols and equipment obsolete to the rest of the world, I want to > have as clean a kernel as possible to start from. FAA as in Flying? > > BTW, after 2 weeks, I LOVE this OS! > > Mike Smith not to me confused with msmith@freebsd.org (I guess it's not that uncommon a name) > mlsmith@mitre.org > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 11: 8:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nerd.geekythings.com (nerd.geekythings.com [204.138.241.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B76437B401 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:08:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marc@geekythings.com) Received: from localhost (marc@localhost) by nerd.geekythings.com (8.11.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id f63I8if43032; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:08:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc X-Sender: marc@localhost To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <74.c9a1800.2873510f@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 07/03/2001 11:57:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > noses@noses.com writes: > > > > Now try to imagine a whole PC on a smaller board than a PIII CPU > > > cartridge. If you can't, get a copy of the Embedded Systems magazine > > > and look at the pictures in it. > > > > Imagine a complete 80186 system with 512k RAM and 512K flash disk, two > > serial ports, 14 digital IO lines and an Ethernet in a 32 pin DIL package. > > They are planning to replace the 80186 module by a 80386 in a few weeks. > > If you can't belive it you might take a look at www.bcl.de. Now if it only > > had enough flash for a PicoBSD it might make a good pocket ISDN router... > > > > We can "picture" it, but such a system can't route a full 100mb/s ethernet, > so its fairly useless as a network device/router as is proposed here. So try the MachZ processor then... -marc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 12:52:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from isis.hol.gr (isis.hol.gr [194.30.192.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E0BC637B405 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:52:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kochort@hol.gr) Received: (qmail 24906 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 19:40:42 -0000 Received: from vdp054.ale01.gwc.hol.gr (HELO roulis) (195.97.54.86) by isis.hol.gr with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 19:40:42 -0000 Message-ID: <001801c103f7$df31c1b0$563661c3@roulis> From: "kostas" To: Subject: Query??????? Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:39:15 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C10410.FCD993F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C10410.FCD993F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Where can i find a hardware compatibility list for the x86 platform? Kostas Chortarias ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C10410.FCD993F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Where can i find a hardware = compatibility list for=20 the x86 platform?
 
Kostas Chortarias
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C10410.FCD993F0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 12:54:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tigerdyr.wheel.dk (tigerdyr.wheel.dk [62.242.234.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40ED537B405 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:54:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lyngbol@tigerdyr.wheel.dk) Received: by tigerdyr.wheel.dk (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 015A414FF0; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:54:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:54:10 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Lyngb=F8l?= To: kostas Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Query??????? Message-ID: <20010703215410.A11103@tigerdyr.wheel.dk> Mail-Followup-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Lyngb=F8l?= , kostas , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <001801c103f7$df31c1b0$563661c3@roulis> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <001801c103f7$df31c1b0$563661c3@roulis>; from kochort@hol.gr on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 10:39:15PM +0300 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD/i386 5.0-CURRENT X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CA6 3789 1455 8FC2 D499 F22A D763 1ABB 9E4A 37AE X-PGP-Public-Key: finger lyngbol@tigerdyr.wheel.dk Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 03.07.2001 22:39:15 +0000, kostas wrote: [doesn't this belong on -questions?] > Where can i find a hardware compatibility list for the x86 platform? ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/4.3-RELEASE/HARDWARE.TXT /Michael -- Michael Lyngbøl -- michael at lyngbol dot dk TDC Tele Danmark, DataNetworks, IP section To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 12:54:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E97437B405; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:54:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f63JsGf02843; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:54:16 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:54:15 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: Terry Lambert Cc: Chris Costello , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: libc_r locking... why? In-Reply-To: <3B419BA8.3D93EB5A@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 03:17:12 -0700 > From: Terry Lambert > > who_has_lock++ ; > > who_has_lock %= process_count ; > > Your unsimplified assembly is not happy, and neither is > this. You want to use a LOCK CMPXCHG to implement your > mutexes; the LOCK prefix makes it a barrier instruction, > which is needed to ensure that two processors don't operate > on their L1 cache contents, and then both attempt to write > back, where one wins the race, but both think they own the > lock. So I see now. Brainstorming, something like: ;; eax = my id to match with token movl $my_id,%eax ;; ecx = next process = (my_id + 1) % process_count xorl %edx,%edx leal 1(%eax,1),%ecx lock cmpl $process_count,%ecx movzl %edx,%ecx ;; edx = my id, for use after cmpxchg ;; if ( who_has_lock == my_id ) who_has_lock = ecx movl %eax,%edx lock cmpxchg %ecx,$who_has_lock ;; see what happened cmpl %edx,%eax jnz *we_didnt_have_the_token I'll look at the kernel code, compare with the above, and run with it. Thanks for beating on my head with a bigger hammer until things clicked. :-) I've bookmarked a page of "dangerous" instructions that require the lock prefix. > > If a thread has nothing to do, I nanosleep(2) to prevent the critical > > path from degenerating to an extended spin. I'm considering using > > socketpair(2)s, with a process blocking indefinitely on read(2) until > > another process write(2)s to awaken it... > > This would work, but it will destroy your SMP scaling > that you want to achieve, since you will effectively > serialize your processes running. Typo on my part. If a _process_ has nothing to do, I put the thing to sleep. I presume that it's [at least sometimes] better to have a sleeping process than to have to launch a new process. Eddy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita/(Inter)national Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: A Trap To: blacklist@brics.com Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to , or you are likely to be blocked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 13:24:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (dhcp44-21.dis.org [216.240.44.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A91437B405 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:24:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f63Kbgm01341; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:37:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200107032037.f63Kbgm01341@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftpd.... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:54:02 +0200." <20010703185402.D23688@mail.webmonster.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 13:37:42 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith(msmith@freebsd.org)@2001.07.02 23:01:42 +0000: > >=20 > > Be aware that ftpd is likely to be replaced in the near future, as=20 > > there's a strong desire to converge on the LukeM FTP tools. > > no matter how nice lukemftpd looks (i got it running on several boxes > since it was the only choice for plug-in replacement and getting rid of > wu-ftpd), please keep in mind that it would be a nice thing[tm] to get a > decent logging system in place before making it default ;-) for seom of > us, syslog is not an option. Unless I'm mistaken, the current ftpd doesn't offer the functionality you're asking for either, so there's no valid reason to block the import of the lukem ftpd on these grounds. And, I'm quite certain that Luke would happily consider patches, if you were to put them forward. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 13:45:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from proxon.bnc.net (proxon.bnc.net [62.225.99.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E49FB37B405 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from noses@proxon.bnc.net) Received: (from noses@localhost) by proxon.bnc.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f63Kj5V65865; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:45:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from noses) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:45:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200107032045.f63Kj5V65865@proxon.bnc.net> From: Noses To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD Organization: Noses' cave User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <74.c9a1800.2873510f@aol.com> Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > We can "picture" it, but such a system can't route a full 100mb/s ethernet, > so its fairly useless as a network device/router as is proposed here. You're a real guru. Right. ISDN gives you about raw 192 kBit/s (144 kBit/s on the S0 bus) to work on. Of course this can't be sent across a 10 MBit/s link. How could I forget that. The device might also get used in a battery powered secure mobile device for EFT applications so even AOL users who don't have anything but fairly useless credit cards won't starve if they have to shop for their groceries at a street market. The developers would probably have preferred an ARM based solution to start with (to quote Apple's Newton team: "it offered more mips per Wh") but its power balance is quite ok and the device is able to sort out itself whether it has to upload its accumulated transactions via serial or ethernet. Securely. No go and pray your "buy a bigger CPU and a hotter power supply" mantra somewhere else, it's getting tiring. Hand grenades aren't always the solution if all you try to is chasing a rabbit. Noses. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 13:58:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.harborside.com (mail.harborside.com [12.45.56.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2626637B401 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:58:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from randymb@harborside.com) Received: (qmail 91826 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 20:57:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO frenzy) (12.45.56.3) by mail.harborside.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 20:57:41 -0000 From: "Randy -Harborside Internet" To: , Cc: "John Fox" , "Jack Worrall" Subject: TX buffer in 4.3 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:53:43 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 We are having a problem with our mail server. It recently got upgraded to 4.3 from 4.2, and now it is having problems with the TX buffer somehow on the network card. Every once in awhile it will shut off all network traffic and give these errors: no memory for tx listrl0 Then in a few minutes (presumably when the buffer is flushed somehow) the network device resumes normal operation. We have tried 3 different NICs, and all have had the same problem. The three models were: 1. Realtek RTL8139A 10/100TX 2. Intel chipset:82558B 3. 3Com somethingerather. We are running with 512MB of RAM, and it usually has about 200 or more megs free at the time of this occurance. Is this a problem with the network drivers in 4.3? Or something else that can be corrected? (Manual way to flush the network card buffers??) Here is the output of ulimit -a, just in case that helps. core file size (blocks) unlimited data seg size (kbytes) 524288 file size (blocks) unlimited max locked memory (kbytes) unlimited max memory size (kbytes) unlimited open files 65536 pipe size (512 bytes) 1 stack size (kbytes) 65536 cpu time (seconds) unlimited max user processes 531 virtual memory (kbytes) 589824 This is on a production system which supports around 10,000 users, so any help would be appreciated. Sincerely, Randy McClelland-Bane @Harborside Internet 1.866.435.3394 ext 409 469.8844 ext 409 Mobile 541.290-8849 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBO0IwUsXIY+0JvubyEQIayACg2e6h3FQE0gY1sdYua68F0KkWrpAAn18H n/UGMHWb0mzm6y3fxjcgYomQ =UTYR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 14: 8:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mgw1.MEIway.com (mgw1.meiway.com [212.73.210.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8913C37B405; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:08:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from LConrad@Go2France.com) Received: from mail.Go2France.com (ms1.meiway.com [212.73.210.73]) by mgw1.MEIway.com (Postfix Relay Hub) with ESMTP id C8B2D16B16; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 23:08:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from IBM-HIRXKN66F0W.Go2France.com [195.115.185.184] by mail.Go2France.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A5FB23400128; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 23:15:39 +0200 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703230504.02f8fe50@mail.Go2France.com> X-Sender: LConrad@Go2France.com@mail.Go2France.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 23:08:57 +0200 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org From: Len Conrad Subject: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I´m trying to gather tuning information for Wietse Venema who says: "I'm writing a document that describes how to crank up FreeBSD so that it can run lots of processes, and so that it can handle lots of connections. Right now, these guidelines vary from sysctl, loader.conf, to recompiling a kernel. This is confusing." Of course, what he means "lots of connections" required by 100´s and 100´s of smtp and smtpd processes in postfix. Given that the guy is very busy developping postfix basically single-handed and participating in its support list daily, we ought to be pleased he´s concentrating some of his time on a FreeBSD+postfix tuning doc, and that he wouldn't be doing this if he wasn´t seeing a real demand for large to huge FreeBSD+postifix servers, can somebody, hacker level, provide some help here? What we have found is "man 8 systcl" , "man 3 systcl" , "man sysctl.conf" , "man loader.conf", and http://apollo.backplane.com/FreeBSD/tuning.html. The confusion results from some systcl variables that are read-only from sysctl.conf but writeable in loader.conf. eg, kern.ipc.maxsockets and kern.ipc.nmbclusters. but these latter are not listed in "man 8 sysctl" but are in man 3 sysctl, but not as being writeable in loader.conf, which is not mentioned. So it looks like for sysctl variables, there are these options: writeable from shell or sysctl.conf (but not writeable from loader.conf) read-only from sysctl.conf but writeable only in loader.conf read-only but writeable in custom kernel (re-compile) (but there isn´t any explicit setting for maxproc in 4.3R LINT.) Furthermore, is there any doc as to exactly which and how variables are affected by changing MAXUSERS? LINT says it´s "complicated" :))) and go read param.c. Thanks Len http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.4 for NT4 & W2K http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 14:11:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB1A537B40A; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:11:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id 783AB81D05; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:10:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:10:57 -0500 From: Bill Fumerola To: Randy -Harborside Internet Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: TX buffer in 4.3 Message-ID: <20010703161057.O47870@elvis.mu.org> Reply-To: questions@FreeBSD.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from randymb@harborside.com on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 01:53:43PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-FEARSOME-20010617 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ not -hackers material, moved to questions ] On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 01:53:43PM -0700, Randy -Harborside Internet wrote: > We are having a problem with our mail server. It recently got > upgraded to 4.3 from 4.2, and now it is having problems with the TX > buffer somehow on the network card. Every once in awhile it will shut > off all network traffic and give these errors: > no memory for tx listrl0 > Then in a few minutes (presumably when the buffer is flushed somehow) > the network device resumes normal operation. s#flushed#drained# > We have tried 3 different NICs, and all have had the same problem. > The three models were: > 1. Realtek RTL8139A 10/100TX rl(4): rl%d: no memory for tx list The driver failed to allocate an mbuf for the transmitter ring when allocating a pad buffer or collapsing an mbuf chain into a cluster. > 2. Intel chipset:82558B fxp(4): fxp%d: Failed to malloc memory There are not enough mbuf's available for allocation. > 3. 3Com somethingerather. I'll assume you mean the etherlink(3c905) chips... xl(4): xl%d: no memory for tx list The driver failed to allocate an mbuf for the transmitter ring when allocating a pad buffer or collapsing an mbuf chain into a cluster. > We are running with 512MB of RAM, and it usually has about 200 or > more megs free at the time of this occurance. Which doesn't matter if you don't allocate enough memory to the mbuf subsystem. See below. > Is this a problem with the network drivers in 4.3? Or something else > that can be corrected? (Manual way to flush the network card > buffers??) Flush the network card buffers? That really wouldn't help anything. > Here is the output of ulimit -a, just in case that helps. It doesn't. If you look at the output of 'netstat -m' you'll see you've run mbufs (well, mbuf clusters) and that is whats causing this problem. The "requests for memory" lines will show you how many times this has bitten you in the proverbial ass. options NMBCLUSTERS is your friend. -- Bill Fumerola - security yahoo / Yahoo! inc. - fumerola@yahoo-inc.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 15:40:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4704837B401 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:40:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id n.14.1679c7fc (25307) for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:40:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: <14.1679c7fc.2873a3d7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:40:23 EDT Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 07/03/2001 12:58:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brooks@one-eyed-alien.net writes: > > > Imagine a complete 80186 system with 512k RAM and 512K flash disk, two > > > serial ports, 14 digital IO lines and an Ethernet in a 32 pin DIL > package. > > > They are planning to replace the 80186 module by a 80386 in a few weeks. > > > > If you can't belive it you might take a look at www.bcl.de. Now if it > only > > > had enough flash for a PicoBSD it might make a good pocket ISDN router.. > . > > > > > > > We can "picture" it, but such a system can't route a full 100mb/s ethernet, > > > so its fairly useless as a network device/router as is proposed here. > > And where, pray tell, am I going to find a 100/mbit ISDN link? I'd sure > like one, the 144k IDSL stuff is really slow. > We "were" talking about the merits of using external encryption hardware on a 486 based platform VS a faster platform. You, it seems, are talking about the merits of slow embedded hardware, which has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 16:14:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.14.173.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54DEF37B401 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:14:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 8071 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jul 2001 23:14:48 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 23:14:48 -0000 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:14:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Andre Grosse Bley Cc: Subject: Re: TCP Problems in 4.3 ? In-Reply-To: <20010703091743.A11720@nm.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Message-ID: <20010703181208.E8059-100000@achilles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Andre Grosse Bley wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Sorry, but i did not know how i can describe these troubles better. > But: I applyed your patch, set net.inet.tcp.tcp_seq_genscheme: 1 -> 0 > and both scp/LPRng work again. Good. > > Note that the patch addresses _only_ problems with connections > > being established to the same host / port in a quick hurry. There are no > > Issuing several "lpq"s in a minute results to connections to the same > host (printserver) and port. > I dont know exactly how scp works, perhaps its just the same? Yep, it would be the same situation if you're running a bunch of scps in a row. The reason I was confused earlier is that I wasn't sure if you were talking about scps not starting, or aborting in the middle. Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 16:22:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.14.173.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E16137B401 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:22:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 8098 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jul 2001 23:22:27 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 23:22:27 -0000 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:22:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Len Conrad Cc: , Subject: Re: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703230504.02f8fe50@mail.Go2France.com> Message-ID: <20010703181912.M8059-100000@achilles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Len Conrad wrote: > I=B4m trying to gather tuning information for Wietse Venema who says: > > "I'm writing a document that describes how to crank up FreeBSD so > that it can run lots of processes, and so that it can handle lots > of connections. > > Right now, these guidelines vary from sysctl, loader.conf, to > recompiling a kernel. This is confusing." Terry posted patches to tunify some of the recompile requiring options, but I don't think anyone's working on getting that committed right now. However, if you're good at shell scripting, you might be able to kill at least one of those problems. I was also recently annoyed by the fact that boot time tuneable sysctls and runtime tuneable sysctls can't be set in a single place. What would be cool is if someone made a script that read loader.conf sometime during startup and set the options which weren't tuned at boot time. This would allow people to throw all sysctls they want to tweak into a single file and make giving out instructions much easier. (I'm assuming that the new script would then be added to the default system startup; otherwise it wouldn't be very useful.) Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 16:29:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.itga.com.au (ns.itga.com.au [202.53.40.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A75C037B407; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:29:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnb@itga.com.au) Received: from lightning.itga.com.au (lightning.itga.com.au [192.168.71.20]) by ns.itga.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA52833; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:29:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from gnb@itga.com.au) Received: from itga.com.au (lightning.itga.com.au [192.168.71.20]) by lightning.itga.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22646; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:27:47 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <200107032327.JAA22646@lightning.itga.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.4 05/15/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 From: Gregory Bond To: Len Conrad Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 03 Jul 2001 23:08:57 +0200. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:27:47 +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Also worth looking at tuning(7) (in 4.3 or later systems). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 16:43: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts6.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D1F37B405; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:42:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reel@sympatico.ca) Received: from HSE-QCity-ppp94808.qc.sympatico.ca ([64.230.227.11]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20010703234258.RRCP15384.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@HSE-QCity-ppp94808.qc.sympatico.ca>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:42:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:42:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Felix-Antoine Paradis X-X-Sender: To: Mike Silbersack Cc: Len Conrad , , Subject: Re: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20010703181912.M8059-100000@achilles.silby.com> Message-ID: <20010703194218.U66434-100000@idemnia.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Mike Silbersack wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Len Conrad wrote: > > > I=B4m trying to gather tuning information for Wietse Venema who says: > > > > "I'm writing a document that describes how to crank up FreeBSD so > > that it can run lots of processes, and so that it can handle lots > > of connections. > > > > Right now, these guidelines vary from sysctl, loader.conf, to > > recompiling a kernel. This is confusing." > > Terry posted patches to tunify some of the recompile requiring options, > but I don't think anyone's working on getting that committed right now. > > However, if you're good at shell scripting, you might be able to kill at > least one of those problems. I was also recently annoyed by the fact tha= t > boot time tuneable sysctls and runtime tuneable sysctls can't be set in a > single place. What would be cool is if someone made a script that read > loader.conf sometime during startup and set the options which weren't > tuned at boot time. This would allow people to throw all sysctls they > want to tweak into a single file and make giving out instructions much > easier. > > (I'm assuming that the new script would then be added to the default > system startup; otherwise it wouldn't be very useful.) > Is /etc/sysctl.conf what you are looking for? - Felix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 17:11:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BB2B37B403 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:11:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jazepeda@pacbell.net) Received: from zippy.mybox.zip ([207.214.149.204]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GFX00M7V9UOMP@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 17:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zippy.mybox.zip (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B66031817; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 17:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 17:11:11 -0700 From: Alex Zepeda Subject: Re: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD In-reply-to: <"from reel"@sympatico.ca> To: Felix-Antoine Paradis Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010703171111.A1179@zippy.mybox.zip> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <20010703181912.M8059-100000@achilles.silby.com> <20010703194218.U66434-100000@idemnia.ath.cx> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 07:42:57PM -0400, Felix-Antoine Paradis wrote: > Is /etc/sysctl.conf what you are looking for? No, because that only holds the runtime tuneables. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 17:24: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289DC37B401; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:23:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA87427; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:23:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:23:55 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Request for tech review: half of FreeBSD book Message-ID: <20010703202355.A87390@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, For those who haven't heard my occasional panicked gasps for freedom on -chat, I'm writing a book on FreeBSD. It's called "Absolute BSD", and is due for publication roughly around BSDCon 2002. There's a signed contract and everything, so it's pretty much a guaranteed thing. I'm looking for a couple brave souls who would be willing to be technical reviewers. I have plenty of people who are tracking down "this sentence no verb" and "what dictionary did you find *this* word in?" errors. What I need are a couple of experienced sysadmin/developer types who can comment on the technical accuracy, before I send it to the publisher. The target audience is people who have basic UNIX familiarity. I don't cover cd, ls, chmod, and friends. I do cover FreeBSD-specific issues, and go into depth on securing your system, providing network services, tweaking the kernel, and so on. The section I have ready for review is about 80,000 words. This is only a second draft -- there's rough bits here and there, I'm sure. But there's no point in polishing incorrect text. There's another 60,000-70,000 words coming, once I translate my brained-by-falling-masonry chicken-scratch into English. I'd ask you to review that as well, hopefully by the end of August. I'll be happy to credit the reviewers in the book, of course, and send you a copy. Since freelance writers make only slightly more than migrant farm workers, that's about it. :( So, if you're a sysadmin who likes to be pendantic, do please drop me a line! Thanks, Michael -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 17:31:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D7F37B401; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:31:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 2FCE155407; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE4151610; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 17:16:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Linh Pham To: Michael Lucas Cc: , Subject: Re: Request for tech review: half of FreeBSD book In-Reply-To: <20010703202355.A87390@blackhelicopters.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2001-07-03, Michael Lucas scribbled: # I'm looking for a couple brave souls who would be willing to be # technical reviewers. I probably have some time on my hands to help out in anyway that I can. I'm no BSD genius... but I'm not a newbie either :) # I have plenty of people who are tracking down "this sentence no verb" # and "what dictionary did you find *this* word in?" errors. What I # need are a couple of experienced sysadmin/developer types who can # comment on the technical accuracy, before I send it to the publisher. # # The target audience is people who have basic UNIX familiarity. I # don't cover cd, ls, chmod, and friends. I do cover FreeBSD-specific # issues, and go into depth on securing your system, providing network # services, tweaking the kernel, and so on. # # The section I have ready for review is about 80,000 words. This is # only a second draft -- there's rough bits here and there, I'm sure. # But there's no point in polishing incorrect text. # # There's another 60,000-70,000 words coming, once I translate my # brained-by-falling-masonry chicken-scratch into English. I'd ask you # to review that as well, hopefully by the end of August. # # I'll be happy to credit the reviewers in the book, of course, and send # you a copy. Since freelance writers make only slightly more than # migrant farm workers, that's about it. :( # # So, if you're a sysadmin who likes to be pendantic, do please drop me # a line! If it covers BIND, Postfix, Python, and Webmin... I think I can be of help. :) So that's what you needed a reference for the netstat(1) bit for, eh? -- Linh Pham [lplist@closedsrc.org] // 404b - Brain not found To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 19:45: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web11402.mail.yahoo.com (web11402.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5590937B403 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:45:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from raysonlogin@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010704024501.73299.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.183.18.189] by web11402.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 19:45:01 PDT Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:45:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Rayson Ho Subject: C++ to C translator To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have written some code in C++. However, I want to run it on an old mainframe machine, which a C++ compiler is not available. I know that the old g++ is a C++ to C compiler. Does anyone know which version it is? Also, anyone knows other C++ to C compilers? Thanks, Rayson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 20:31:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gatewayc.anheuser-busch.com (gatewayc.anheuser-busch.com [151.145.250.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A1B37B403 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:31:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com) Received: by gatewayc.anheuser-busch.com; id WAA18687; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:31:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from unknown(10.33.24.97) by gatewayc.anheuser-busch.com via smap (V5.5) id xma018672; Tue, 3 Jul 01 22:30:35 -0500 Received: from STLEXGVIR004.abc.corp.anheuser-busch.com ([10.33.24.97]) by stlexgvir004.abc.corp.anheuser-busch.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NWCQP66V; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:29:50 -0500 Received: from stlexgims003.anheuser-busch.com ([10.33.24.70]) by STLEXGVIR004.abc.corp.anheuser-busch.com (NAVIEG 2.1 bld 63) with SMTP id M2001070322294925850 for ; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 22:29:49 -0500 Received: by STLEXGIMS003 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <3FTTMTFN>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:28:51 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Alton, Matthew" To: "'Rayson Ho'" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: C++ to C translator Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:30:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The original Stroustrop AT&T C++ complier called cfront was a front-end C compiler. They may have it available at research.att.com. It's missing some things, though, like generic container classes. -----Original Message----- From: Rayson Ho [mailto:raysonlogin@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 9:45 PM To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: C++ to C translator Hi, I have written some code in C++. However, I want to run it on an old mainframe machine, which a C++ compiler is not available. I know that the old g++ is a C++ to C compiler. Does anyone know which version it is? Also, anyone knows other C++ to C compilers? Thanks, Rayson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 20:37:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from silby.com (cb34181-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.14.173.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A62C37B403 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:37:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: (qmail 8421 invoked by uid 1000); 4 Jul 2001 03:37:53 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 03:37:52 -0000 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:37:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Felix-Antoine Paradis Cc: Len Conrad , , Subject: Re: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20010703194218.U66434-100000@idemnia.ath.cx> Message-ID: <20010703223703.C8373-100000@achilles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Felix-Antoine Paradis wrote: > Is /etc/sysctl.conf what you are looking for? > > - Felix Sure, if I can stick loader settings in there. Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 20:53:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (gw.Awfulhak.org [217.204.245.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ABBD37B403 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:53:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f643sUr77316; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 04:54:30 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f643skc16059; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 04:54:46 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200107040354.f643skc16059@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: "Alton, Matthew" Cc: "'Rayson Ho'" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: C++ to C translator In-Reply-To: Message from "Alton, Matthew" of "Tue, 03 Jul 2001 22:30:30 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 04:54:46 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I requested the bug list for that ``compiler'' at one point and was given hundreds of sheets of ``known bugs'' (several bugs per sheet). At the time, I was looking for alternatives to g++ because of a bug I'd come across. Needless to say, the bug in question appeared in the cfront known-bugs documentation :) In short, avoid cfront :o{} > The original Stroustrop AT&T C++ complier called cfront was a front-end C > compiler. They may have it available at research.att.com. It's missing some > things, though, like generic container classes. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rayson Ho [mailto:raysonlogin@yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 9:45 PM > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: C++ to C translator > > > Hi, > > I have written some code in C++. However, I want to run it on an old > mainframe machine, which a C++ compiler is not available. > > I know that the old g++ is a C++ to C compiler. Does anyone know which > version it is? Also, anyone knows other C++ to C compilers? > > Thanks, > Rayson > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -- Brian http://www.freebsd-services.com/ Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 23: 2:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from penfold.transactionware.com (penfold.transactionware.com [203.14.245.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2DEA337B403 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 23:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from janm@transactionware.com) Received: (qmail 64876 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 06:01:56 -0000 Received: from ck.transactionware.com (192.168.1.17) by penfold.transactionware.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 06:01:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 90370 invoked by uid 1006); 4 Jul 2001 06:04:39 -0000 Received: from janm@transactionware.com by ck.transactionware.com with qmail-scanner-0.96 (sweep: 2.4/3.46. . Clean. Processed in 0.400805 secs); 04 Jul 2001 06:04:39 -0000 Received: from janm.transactionware.com (HELO janm) (192.168.1.8) by ck.transactionware.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 06:04:38 -0000 Message-ID: <021f01c1044e$b46a2560$0801a8c0@janm.transactionware.com> From: "Jan Mikkelsen" To: "Rayson Ho" , Subject: Re: C++ to C translator Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:01:02 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Comeau C++, http://www.comeaucomputing.com might do what you want, although you'll have to hack at the build system a bit. Other products based on the EDG front end might do similar things. I seem to recall that KAI C++ converted to C, but I don't know. -----Original Message----- From: Rayson Ho To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wednesday, 4 July 2001 12:48 Subject: C++ to C translator >Hi, > >I have written some code in C++. However, I want to run it on an old >mainframe machine, which a C++ compiler is not available. > >I know that the old g++ is a C++ to C compiler. Does anyone know which >version it is? Also, anyone knows other C++ to C compilers? > >Thanks, >Rayson > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 23:16: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from speer.nl.uu.net (speer.nl.uu.net [193.67.79.174]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B177537B403 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 23:16:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from arjan@jak.nl) Received: from 1Cust219.tnt50.rtm1.nl.uu.net ([213.117.18.219]:1102 "EHLO jak.nl") by speer.nl.uu.net with ESMTP id ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:15:49 +0200 Message-ID: <3B42B49B.FF239455@jak.nl> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 08:15:55 +0200 From: Arjan Knepper Organization: JAK++ Software Development B.V. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C++ to C translator References: <021f01c1044e$b46a2560$0801a8c0@janm.transactionware.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jan Mikkelsen wrote: > Comeau C++, http://www.comeaucomputing.com might do what you want, > although you'll have to hack at the build system a bit. Other products > based on the EDG front end might do similar things. I seem to recall > that KAI C++ converted to C, but I don't know. True! But there NOT a native FreeBSD port, your need linux emulation etc on FreeBSD, quite a hassle to get it working. They support a lot of other platforms fairly well. Arjan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rayson Ho > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Date: Wednesday, 4 July 2001 12:48 > Subject: C++ to C translator > > >Hi, > > > >I have written some code in C++. However, I want to run it on an old > >mainframe machine, which a C++ compiler is not available. > > > >I know that the old g++ is a C++ to C compiler. Does anyone know which > >version it is? Also, anyone knows other C++ to C compilers? > > > >Thanks, > >Rayson > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 3 23:59:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gekko.i-clue.de (server.ms-agentur.de [62.153.134.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26D437B405; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 23:59:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from so@server.i-clue.de) Received: from i-clue.de (automatix.i-clue.de [192.168.0.112]) by gekko.i-clue.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id JAA03213; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:08:28 +0200 Message-ID: <3B42BF54.E5AE73CD@i-clue.de> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:01:40 +0200 From: Christoph Sold Reply-To: so@server.i-clue.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Lucas Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Request for tech review: half of FreeBSD book References: <20010703202355.A87390@blackhelicopters.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Michael Lucas schrieb: > > So, if you're a sysadmin who likes to be pendantic, do please drop me > a line! Been there, done that, doing it still. May I help with my i18n experience (sorry, no two-byte languages, just plain old German -- pitfalls start at choosing the right keyboard layout). -Christoph Sold To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 3:12:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay1.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (www.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [212.111.192.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3500737B409 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 03:12:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simon@comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua) Received: from comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (eth0.comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [10.0.1.184]) by relay1.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9296E2EECF for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:12:43 +0300 (EEST) Received: from pm5149 (pm514-9.comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [10.18.54.109]) by comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f64AAEA11958 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:10:14 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <01c201c10468$b6a71e40$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> From: "Andrey Simonenko" To: Subject: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog. Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:07:12 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, I'm working on some patches for dialog(1) and libdialog. Does FreeBSD team want to continue use of dialog(1) program and libdialog in future? I ask this question because I fix some problems I have with dialog(1) (really with libdialog) and I'm going to try to fix the same problems with all functions in libdialog, so I want to know if it will be interesting for FreeBSD. I saw some bug reports for dialog/libdialog, but didn't see "good" reactions on that PRs. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 3:55:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gateway.dignus.com (sdsl-66-80-58-206.dsl.lax.megapath.net [66.80.58.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0392537B403 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 03:55:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes.dignus.com [10.0.0.3]) by gateway.dignus.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f64At2r23258; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 06:55:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f64AtFL39916; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 06:55:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rivers) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 06:55:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <200107041055.f64AtFL39916@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, raysonlogin@yahoo.com Subject: Re: C++ to C translator In-Reply-To: <20010704024501.73299.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi, > > I have written some code in C++. However, I want to run it on an old > mainframe machine, which a C++ compiler is not available. > > I know that the old g++ is a C++ to C compiler. Does anyone know which > version it is? Also, anyone knows other C++ to C compilers? > > Thanks, > Rayson Rayson, There are several C and C++ compilers available for the mainframe. (if you mean zSeries (nee IBM 390) mainframe. We market a C compiler & HLASM compatible assembler (available natively, or as a cross-compiler/assembler.) See http://www.dignus.com IBM markets C & C++ compilers. And SAS Institute markets C & C++ compilers, see http://www.sas.com. - Dave Rivers - -- rivers@dignus.com Work: (919) 676-0847 Get your mainframe programming tools at http://www.dignus.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 5:19:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmonster.de (datasink.webmonster.de [194.162.162.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 964D437B403 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 05:19:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karsten@rohrbach.de) Received: (qmail 55162 invoked by uid 1000); 4 Jul 2001 12:19:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:19:47 +0200 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Randy -Harborside Internet Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, John Fox , Jack Worrall Subject: Re: TX buffer in 4.3 Message-ID: <20010704141947.B52663@mail.webmonster.de> Mail-Followup-To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , Randy -Harborside Internet , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, John Fox , Jack Worrall References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="WYTEVAkct0FjGQmd" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from randymb@harborside.com on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 01:53:43PM -0700 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-URL: http://www.webmonster.de/ X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --WYTEVAkct0FjGQmd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Randy -Harborside Internet(randymb@harborside.com)@2001.07.03 13:53:43 +000= 0: > =20 > We are having a problem with our mail server. It recently got > upgraded to 4.3 from 4.2, and now it is having problems with the TX > buffer somehow on the network card. Every once in awhile it will shut > off all network traffic and give these errors: > no memory for tx listrl0 > Then in a few minutes (presumably when the buffer is flushed somehow) > the network device resumes normal operation. > We have tried 3 different NICs, and all have had the same problem. > The three models were: > 1. Realtek RTL8139A 10/100TX > 2. Intel chipset:82558B > 3. 3Com somethingerather.=20 >=20 > We are running with 512MB of RAM, and it usually has about 200 or > more megs free at the time of this occurance. in this case i think putting options NMBCLUSTERS=3D32768 in your kernel config would solve this problem also bumping up MAXUSERS helps... /k --=20 > Absinthe makes the tart grow fonder. KR433/KR11-RIPE -- WebMonster Community Founder -- nGENn GmbH Senior Techie http://www.webmonster.de/ -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de/ -- http://www.ngenn.n= et/ karsten&rohrbach.de -- alpha&ngenn.net -- alpha&scene.org -- catch@spam.de GnuPG 0x2964BF46 2001-03-15 42F9 9FFF 50D4 2F38 DBEE DF22 3340 4F4E 2964 B= F46 Please do not remove my address from To: and Cc: fields in mailing lists. 1= 0x --WYTEVAkct0FjGQmd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7QwnjM0BPTilkv0YRAgHrAJ9AqtWahT5quQH46VPYSD//I3QtTACgu++0 7R3qu+1vq8r/yQ9K1UiPSfI= =Gthw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --WYTEVAkct0FjGQmd-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 6:27:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail04.edsamail.com.ph (mail04.edsamail.com.ph [210.16.71.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0377C37B403 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 06:27:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from landar@edsamail.com.ph) Received: (qmail 6739 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 13:27:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landar@edsamail.com.ph) (10.2.0.251) by 10.2.0.248 with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 13:27:18 -0000 X-Mailer: Edsamail Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 21:40:37 +0900 From: "345" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20010704132738.0377C37B403@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG does bsd supports S3 SAVAGE Video card? and any redfox motherboard? help me pls? and does it supports LG COLLINS Cd-ROM? tnx! pls reply asap pls? tnx!!! pls help me, or what other hardware does bsd support? tnx ive got only a limited net connection pls reply via email... tnx! -bsd user- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 9:56:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48BA137B405 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:56:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 18:56:50 +0100 Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9D29@l04.research.kpn.com> From: "Koster, K.J." To: 'FreeBSD Hackers mailing list' Subject: recent 4.3-stable freezes my SMP box Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 18:56:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear All, I just upgraded one of my boxes to FreeBSD 4.3-stable with cvsup. Unfortunately the machine now freezes. I can ping it and it responds to [ctrl][alt][esc] on the console ("No debugger in kernel") and I can switch consoles [alt][F1..4], but it does not respond to other keyboard events. For example [ctrl][alt][del] does not work. The machine is a Compaq Proliant, dual 550MHz Xeon, with a hardware raid SCSI box that comes up as sym0 (875). I powercycled the box, since I cannot actually log in to see what's up. The system boots, gives me a login prompt and subsequently freezes again. Booting into single user more allows me to fsck and mount and look around for a bit until is also freezes. A verbose boot gives me one message that I worry about a bit (from memory:) APIC_IO: MP table broken 8259->APIC entry missing Should I worry? What SMP related stuff went into -stable in the last month or so? Anything that might freeze my box? I have two very similar Proliant uniprocessor boxes that appear to work fine, but the SMP box is their NFS home dir server. This prevents me from logging in remotely at this moment to check. It's after hours here. The machine has been stable for a few months, and I upgrade -stable every first week of the month. This box is the buildbox that I built all -stables on so far, so I'm quite sure this box is a-ok. More tomorrow, when I get access to the actual server console again. Any hints appreciated. In particular: how do I get back to last week's -stable? :-) Kees Jan ================================================ You are only young once, but you can stay immature all your life. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 10:13:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48A537B401 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:13:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f64HD3S96544; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:13:03 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9D29@l04.research.kpn.com> References: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9D29@l04.research.kpn.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:13:00 -0400 To: "Koster, K.J." , From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: recent 4.3-stable freezes my SMP box Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 6:56 PM +0100 7/4/01, Koster, K.J. wrote: >Dear All, > >I just upgraded one of my boxes to FreeBSD 4.3-stable with cvsup. >Unfortunately the machine now freezes. If you are tracking -stable, then there is a lot of good reason to keep an eye the freebsd-stable mailing list. Particularly when something like this comes up. If you check that mailing list over the past week or so, several different people have experienced similar problems, and have been discussing it. The most promising info is in recent messages from Tor.Egge@fast.no in the thread "Hard lockups since cvsup'ing Jul 1st. Help!". It looks like he's got patches to fix the problem most people have been running into. I don't think they have been committed yet, but the patches are there (in the messages) if you want to try them. Given how unreliable your system is, you'd probably have to boot using "kernel.old" or boot into single-user mode to compile things with these patches applied. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 12: 4: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 821) id 5466F37B401; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:04:04 -0700 To: Hackers List Subject: pthreads vs set/longjmp performance (homegrown tasking) Message-ID: <20010704120404.A3796@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i From: jwd@FreeBSD.ORG (John W. De Boskey) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have an application which uses a homegrown tasking mechanism. Basically, it uses setjmp/longjmp where the stackpointer is modified after the setjmp and before the longjmp. This allows multiple 'tasks' to run (serially) within the process with each having a different stack allocation. The above process is then run on top of a single pthreads thread. With the newer pthreads libraries, this code nolonger works: Fatal error 'longjmp()ing between thread contexts is undefined by POSIX 1003.1' at line ? in file /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_jmp.c (errno = ?) Fatal error 'longjmp()ing between thread contexts is undefined by POSIX 1003.1' at line ? in file /usr/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_jmp.c (errno = ?) Instead of possibly modifying the pthreads library, I decided to convert the homegrown tasking to simply always use pthreads. I have this working, unfortunately, the performance of this implementation is much slower: setjmp/longjmp: initialization time: real time 0.12 seconds cpu time 0.08 seconds pthreads: initialization time: real time 0.82 seconds cpu time 0.79 seconds About a 7x performance loss. I am using 'pthread_cond_signal()' to activate each successive thread thus avoiding the overhead of a 'pthread_cond_broadcast()'. Pthread_setschedparam() doesn't seem to have any effect. Two questions: Has anyone dealt with type of problem before? If so, what approach did you take? Has anyone thought of adding/implementing a (not posix standard) way of informing pthreads to allow multiple stacks to be swapped in and out on a single pthreads thread (thus allowing the previously accepted semantics to continue working?) Thanks, John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 12: 5: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2071537B403 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:04:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f64J2Lt69268; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:02:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: simon@comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog. In-Reply-To: <01c201c10468$b6a71e40$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> References: <01c201c10468$b6a71e40$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010704120221B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:02:21 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 37 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I suppose that depends on how you define "future." Do we want to be using libdialog in the year 2010? No, I would certainly hope something better will have arrived by then. Do we have anything better now or in the forseeable next 12 months? No also. So, if there's anything you or anyone else can do to improve the state of libdialog, I'm sure it will be of some use. Oh yeah, and I might as well take this opportunity to state this for the public record: I DID NOT WRITE THAT EVIL THING. :-) It was written by some guy in Hong Kong and extended by the slackware folks. I just added the callback mechanism stuff so that the objects weren't just "blobs" with no access to internal state transitions. So blah! :-) - Jordan From: "Andrey Simonenko" Subject: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog. Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:07:12 +0400 > Hi All, > > I'm working on some patches for dialog(1) and libdialog. > Does FreeBSD team want to continue use of dialog(1) program > and libdialog in future? I ask this question because I fix > some problems I have with dialog(1) (really with libdialog) and > I'm going to try to fix the same problems with all functions in > libdialog, so I want to know if it will be interesting for FreeBSD. > I saw some bug reports for dialog/libdialog, but didn't see "good" > reactions on that PRs. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 12:13:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0CEF37B407 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:13:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13418; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B436AE3.A16C2A2D@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:13:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Config devices not in machine References: <3B41F252.32882BE7@mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > Is there ANY penalty for having a device in your config file > that is not in your system?? Yes. It can take I/O bus resources, IRQs, and memory that might otherwise be put to better use. > I am inheriting a 40 machine laboratory. My predecessor > decided to go to a single config/kernel for all machines > I'm sure for administrative convenience. I'm trying to > determine if there is any major penalty for using this > single "source" for all machines. It depends. Some legacy ISA devices are not capable of being identified and having their drivers automatically loaded; if these machines are "fully PCI", with the only legacy ISA devices on the motherboard, it should be fairly easy to move to using modules for everything but those integrated devices. In FreeBSD, you will find that almost everything but the devices in the boot path are capable of being demand-loaded only in the case that the hardware is actually present. This means that if your config covers your disk controllers on all your machines (this may mean several drivers have to be ther), pretty much everything else can be left out, so long as it isn't in the boot path (yes, the console is in the boot path; so is the keyboard, etc.). So you could cover all your ISA devices and boot devices, and let the PCI probes identify the other drivers that need to be loaded. > Since we are doing significant hacks on FreeBSD to support > proprietary FAA protocols and equipment obsolete to the rest > of the world, I want to have as clean a kernel as possible > to start from. Cool project. I suggest you build a netboot floppy, and then set up the test image load, with all modules, on one machine, and then netboot all of the PC's from an NFS export of that image (one at a time, of course). This will let you verify that you have the minimal necessary drivers to get your network and the disks recognized, and from there you should be able to decide on the proper "cut down" image. If you were really lazy, and knew perl (aren't those actually synonyms? ;-)), you could just netboot the full image, and save the dmesg off onto the server (e.g. dmesg.), and then process them all to get your minimal spanning set, and do a "hardware survey" of the equipment. If you then included only the list of hardware in the boot path, you would have your "minimal kernel config", based on the probe messages at boot time. Actually, this would probably be damn useful to a lot of people... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 12:48: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE5E37B406; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:48:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00714; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B437316.23476531@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:48:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith Cc: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftpd.... References: <200107032037.f63Kbgm01341@mass.dis.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > Unless I'm mistaken, the current ftpd doesn't offer the > functionality you're asking for either, so there's no > valid reason to block the import of the lukem ftpd on > these grounds. > > And, I'm quite certain that Luke would happily consider > patches, if you were to put them forward. Neither one of them hold a candle to the load CDROM.COM can handle. How about we import dg-ftpd instead? I'm sure we'd all like to be able to support 1TB a day of data transferred... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 12:54:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A97837B403; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:54:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23138; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4374A4.A618E902@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:55:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory Bond Cc: Len Conrad , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD References: <200107032327.JAA22646@lightning.itga.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Gregory Bond wrote: > > Also worth looking at tuning(7) (in 4.3 or later systems). This is not very useful for the application we are talking about. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 13: 9: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freesbee.wheel.dk (freesbee.wheel.dk [193.162.159.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FB2B37B401; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:09:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesper@skriver.dk) Received: by freesbee.wheel.dk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 48B9F5D6A; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 22:09:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 22:09:02 +0200 From: Jesper Skriver To: Terry Lambert Cc: Mike Smith , "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftpd.... Message-ID: <20010704220902.A49411@skriver.dk> References: <200107032037.f63Kbgm01341@mass.dis.org> <3B437316.23476531@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B437316.23476531@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 12:48:38PM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B88 9CE8 66E9 E631 C9C5 5EB4 22AB F0EC F956 1C31 X-PGP-Public-Key: http://freesbee.wheel.dk/~jesper/gpgkey.pub Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 12:48:38PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > Mike Smith wrote: > > Unless I'm mistaken, the current ftpd doesn't offer the > > functionality you're asking for either, so there's no > > valid reason to block the import of the lukem ftpd on > > these grounds. > > > > And, I'm quite certain that Luke would happily consider > > patches, if you were to put them forward. > > Neither one of them hold a candle to the load CDROM.COM > can handle. > > How about we import dg-ftpd instead? I'm sure we'd all > like to be able to support 1TB a day of data transferred... According to jkh it's quite ftp.FreeBSD.org specific ... /Jesper -- Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk - CCIE #5456 Work: Network manager @ AS3292 (Tele Danmark DataNetworks) Private: FreeBSD committer @ AS2109 (A much smaller network ;-) One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them, One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 13:13:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE4E37B409; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:13:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg@root.com) Received: (from dg@localhost) by root.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f64K2u597228; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:02:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dg) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:02:56 -0700 From: David Greenman To: Terry Lambert Cc: Mike Smith , "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftpd.... Message-ID: <20010704130256.D89686@nexus.root.com> References: <200107032037.f63Kbgm01341@mass.dis.org> <3B437316.23476531@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3B437316.23476531@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 12:48:38PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Mike Smith wrote: >> Unless I'm mistaken, the current ftpd doesn't offer the >> functionality you're asking for either, so there's no >> valid reason to block the import of the lukem ftpd on >> these grounds. >> >> And, I'm quite certain that Luke would happily consider >> patches, if you were to put them forward. > >Neither one of them hold a candle to the load CDROM.COM >can handle. > >How about we import dg-ftpd instead? I'm sure we'd all >like to be able to support 1TB a day of data transferred... dg-ftpd isn't freeware. -DG David Greenman Co-founder, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org President, TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 13:55:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B813637B401; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:55:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (dialup-209.247.142.206.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net [209.247.142.206]) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13166; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4382CB.164B607A@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 13:55:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Reply-To: tlambert2@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Len Conrad Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703230504.02f8fe50@mail.Go2France.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Len Conrad wrote: > = > I=B4m trying to gather tuning information for Wietse Venema who says: > = > "I'm writing a document that describes how to crank up FreeBSD so > that it can run lots of processes, and so that it can handle lots > of connections. > = > Right now, these guidelines vary from sysctl, loader.conf, to > recompiling a kernel. This is confusing." This posting will probably piss a lot of people off, even though it's only a fraction of what you should actually be looking at, and I'm intentionally ommitting many things that let me get the numbers I do, until I can push them even higher out of reach. Telle est guerre. 8-). -- MOSTS IMPORTANT POINT: You are going on "Mr. Toad's Wild Kernel Recompilation Ride"; get over it: sit back, and you might even enjoy it. You are going to find you are constrained by memory; it does not help that FreeBSD has vastly bloated many structures in support of kqueue and similar things, instead of instituting unions and reusing fields, and using muxes for things, instead of individual callbacks. I don't suggest you rewrite your allocator unless you know exactly what you are doing; you can still get high numbers, but nowhere in the ballpark of the numbers I've been able to get (e.g. 1 million). I do _NOT_ recommend that you try to beat my numbers, unless you have 16 years kernel experience and about a month to sift through and understand the code, and another couple of months to rewrite everything that doesn't scale. You can increase the KVA space, but the documentation in the handbook that talks about how to do this is actually woefully inadequate, since it misses several "magic" numbers, and fails to give derivation for the others; I would prefer that the code be fixed, so I'm not going to document the process here. Another thing you can do is crank up the maximum number of open files. For networking, this _MUST_ be done before the tcpcb's, struct sockets, and inpcb's have had space allocated, which means at boot time, if you want it to actually appy to network connections. If you tune this at run time, your connections will remain limited to the value at boot time. Because you can not tune this value in loader.conf without using the patch I posted for /sys/conf/param.c, and since no one has committed it (people complained about how it was done, but didn't provide their own code to do it any better), you are basically stuck with rebuilding your kernel with a high "MAXFILES" in your config. Your kernel will use this value to set somaxconn (and the allocation of sockets), which in turn will determine the number of inpcb's and tcpcb's, which will then limit the number of network connections you can have simultaneously. If you are using FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE, you _MUST_ not set your maximum files above ~32000. This gives you some headroom from the maximum value of an unsigned short reference count in the ucred structure, since ucred's are inherited, and there is one reference per file descriptor, and one per socket (personally, I just don't get the reasoning behind the socket refrence, since the only way you can access the thing is through a file; the places where it's tested seem pretty stupid to me). I posted a patch for this, too, to -arch and -current; I think it was effectively brought in as an "MFC" to the -STABLE branch, but don't quote me: look in cred.h instead. You can hack your cred structure to use an unsigned long, instead, but you will have to rebuild *everything*, and say "hello ports" and "goodbye, packages". Don't expect to be able to make more than 64k of outbound connections, unless you are willing to rewrite the port allocation hashing code, since everything is allocated out of the same collision domain, unpreterbed by having multiple IP addresses. Inbound connections are not a problem, since they don't use up local ports. Software can work around this problem (I routinely load test from one of my desktop boxes at ~180,000 client connections from 3 virtual IP addresses), but to do so, you have to understand _exactly_ how the allocation works, and dance yourself through all the limiting "if" tests from user space -- not for the faint of heart (ever play one of those "milk bottle fishing" games at a county fair?). MBUFS and NMBCLUSTERS almost go without saying... You will use one mbuf per connection for keepalives, and may spend more, if you set non-default options. Mike posted a patch for this, which gets rid of the TCPTMPL structure. This patch helps scaling, but it turns out that it's an incredible performance lose, in testing. Much better to use something like my chain allocator, and recover 196MB of memory (at a million connections), and leave the tcptmpl there; it turns out that there are at least 4 "interesting" uses for the thing, aside from keepalive. Oh, yeah: his patch also kills TCP_COMPAT_42: also an incredibly bad thing. I will say: DO NOT USE A BIG "MAXUSERS"! This cranks up many things your server couldn't care less about, and costs you horribly. Look at what "MAXUSERS" does to various values, instead, and what options you will need to use to override them. You will want to enable TCP_COMPAT_42. If you don't, you will find all your sockets pack up eventually because of the sequence number going backward. The use of random ISS was an amazingly stupid idea, and when it "goes backward", everything goes to hell in the TCP finite state machine, particularly under load. No heavy load server can afford random ISS. Even an "increase only" random number significantly reduces the cycle time; without going to 64 bit sequence numbers, on a 100mbit link, you are talking less than the TIME_WAIT interval. I wish "security" people understood TCP/IP better. I don't think diddling "MAXPROC" will do you much good, but go ahead, if you plan on fork'ing all over the place as part of your scaling strategy (you would be much better off with a finite state automaton, with a small statite per connection, and kqueue, to interleave all the I/O; save on context switches that way, too). BTW: FreeBSD should seperate code and data segment switching, for when someone fork-boms -- er, scales -- this way. It will save much TLB shootdown and cache flushing. Finally, I'm aware that Postfix does "pig tricks", such as turning of SO_KEEPALIVE, and perhaps also unsetting the "always_keepalive" sysctl variable so that the option will actually do what the man page says it does. Don't do that: you will eventually lock up the protocol state machine on one end or both. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 14: 5: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from scribble.fsn.hu (scribble.fsn.hu [193.224.40.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AD58037B405 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:04:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bra@fsn.hu) Received: (qmail 57950 invoked by uid 1000); 4 Jul 2001 21:04:58 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 21:04:58 -0000 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 23:04:58 +0200 (CEST) From: Attila Nagy To: Terry Lambert Cc: Mike Smith , "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , Subject: Re: ftpd.... In-Reply-To: <3B437316.23476531@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20010704225247.K57372-100000@scribble.fsn.hu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, > Neither one of them hold a candle to the load CDROM.COM can handle. > How about we import dg-ftpd instead? I'm sure we'd all like to be > able to support 1TB a day of data transferred... Although it may be true (the cdrom.com load), the 1 TB per day stuff isn't so mystic. After changing from Linux to FreeBSD, my machine outperforms itself. My daily record is above 750 GB with a single PIII-450 and with 1 GB RAM. The best of all, that now I can handle more than 1500 concurrent FTP clients and if the half of this number downloads the same file from the same SCSI disk, the system does not slow down, like with Linux. It easily saturates the Intel Etherexpress NIC (100 Mbps). My dream is a complete *BSD mirror on it, but until that I have to find many-many sponsors (in Hungary OpenSource seems to be very widespread, but very few firms sponsor sites, like this, ftp.fsn.hu)... ps: I am using the standard FTP daemon with inetd (I don't know how to set a max userlimit when running in daemon mode correctly). Thanks for all of you for this great OS! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attila Nagy e-mail: Attila.Nagy@fsn.hu Budapest Polytechnic (BMF.HU) @work: +361 210 1415 (194) H-1084 Budapest, Tavaszmezo u. 15-17. cell.: +3630 306 6758 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 14:59:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from yonge.cs.toronto.edu (yonge.cs.toronto.edu [128.100.1.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4298037B401; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:59:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from khui@cs.toronto.edu) Received: from jane.cs.toronto.edu ([128.100.2.31]) by yonge.cs.toronto.edu with SMTP id <33977-24778>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:59:15 -0400 Received: from gardiner.cs.toronto.edu by jane.cs.toronto.edu id <453139-28524>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:59:07 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:58:58 -0400 From: Kevin Hui X-Sender: khui@gardiner.cs To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Raw disk access in userland Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I'm wondering if *BSD have any support for user programs to access raw disk devices, unbuffered. Such support is available under Linux: http://www.kernel.org/LDP/HOWTO/SCSI-2.4-HOWTO/rawdev.html http://www2.linuxjournal.com/cgi-bin/linux/man.cgi?mode=search&comm=raw§=1 Any information regarding this would be appreciated. Regards, -Kevin. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 16: 8:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.kdm.org (panzer.kdm.org [216.160.178.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D565F37B403; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:08:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.kdm.org) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.kdm.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA47136; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:08:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ken) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:08:44 -0600 From: "Kenneth D. Merry" To: Kevin Hui Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Raw disk access in userland Message-ID: <20010704170844.A47113@panzer.kdm.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from khui@cs.toronto.edu on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 05:58:58PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 17:58:58 -0400, Kevin Hui wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm wondering if *BSD have any support for user programs to access raw > disk devices, unbuffered. Such support is available under Linux: > > http://www.kernel.org/LDP/HOWTO/SCSI-2.4-HOWTO/rawdev.html > http://www2.linuxjournal.com/cgi-bin/linux/man.cgi?mode=search&comm=raw§=1 > > Any information regarding this would be appreciated. There are no block (i.e. buffered) devices in FreeBSD, only character devices. So you can access raw devices without having to go through all the hoops described above. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@kdm.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 16:49:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gandalf.vi.bravenet.com (gandalf.bravenet.com [139.142.105.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5AF7637B406 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:49:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dphoenix@bravenet.com) Received: (qmail 35069 invoked by uid 1001); 4 Jul 2001 23:53:09 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 23:53:09 -0000 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:53:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan To: Subject: FW: CVS FYI (fwd) Message-ID: <20010704165234.G76455-100000@gandalf.bravenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG U website/main/dbfiles/email_ad_tools.db cvs update: cannot change mode of website/main/dbfiles/email_ad_tools.db: Stale NFS file handle anyone know how to get rid of these. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 17:19:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from yonge.cs.toronto.edu (yonge.cs.toronto.edu [128.100.1.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0969D37B403; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 17:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from khui@cs.toronto.edu) Received: from jane.cs.toronto.edu ([128.100.2.31]) by yonge.cs.toronto.edu with SMTP id <33977-24778>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:19:05 -0400 Received: from gardiner.cs.toronto.edu by jane.cs.toronto.edu id <453139-28524>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:19:01 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:18:51 -0400 From: Kevin Hui X-Sender: khui@gardiner.cs To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Raw disk access in userland In-Reply-To: <20010704170844.A47113@panzer.kdm.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Then the question is whether the kernel is copying data between userspace and kernelspace or whether it just DMAs the data straight in/out of the user program's address space. In Linux raw-io, given that it is a block device and you are doing page-aligned block I/Os on it, is smart and does zero copies. While it may seem to be jumping through hoops, maybe it does have a performance advantage? Regards, -Kevin. On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 17:58:58 -0400, Kevin Hui wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I'm wondering if *BSD have any support for user programs to access raw > > disk devices, unbuffered. Such support is available under Linux: > > > > http://www.kernel.org/LDP/HOWTO/SCSI-2.4-HOWTO/rawdev.html > > http://www2.linuxjournal.com/cgi-bin/linux/man.cgi?mode=search&comm=raw§=1 > > > > Any information regarding this would be appreciated. > > There are no block (i.e. buffered) devices in FreeBSD, only character > devices. > > So you can access raw devices without having to go through all the hoops > described above. > > Ken > -- > Kenneth Merry > ken@kdm.org > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 20:12:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.kdm.org (panzer.kdm.org [216.160.178.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1EB37B403; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:12:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.kdm.org) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.kdm.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA48163; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 21:12:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ken) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 21:12:33 -0600 From: "Kenneth D. Merry" To: Kevin Hui Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Raw disk access in userland Message-ID: <20010704211233.A48146@panzer.kdm.org> References: <20010704170844.A47113@panzer.kdm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from khui@cs.toronto.edu on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 08:18:51PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 20:18:51 -0400, Kevin Hui wrote: > Then the question is whether the kernel is copying data between userspace > and kernelspace or whether it just DMAs the data straight in/out of the > user program's address space. In Linux raw-io, given that it is a block > device and you are doing page-aligned block I/Os on it, is smart and does > zero copies. While it may seem to be jumping through hoops, maybe it does > have a performance advantage? The kernel copies between userland and the kernel. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@kdm.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 23:30: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (dhcp44-21.dis.org [216.240.44.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F3C37B408; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 23:29:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f656gox00974; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 23:42:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200107050642.f656gox00974@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: Kevin Hui , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Raw disk access in userland In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jul 2001 21:12:33 MDT." <20010704211233.A48146@panzer.kdm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 23:42:50 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 20:18:51 -0400, Kevin Hui wrote: > > Then the question is whether the kernel is copying data between userspace > > and kernelspace or whether it just DMAs the data straight in/out of the > > user program's address space. In Linux raw-io, given that it is a block > > device and you are doing page-aligned block I/Os on it, is smart and does > > zero copies. While it may seem to be jumping through hoops, maybe it does > > have a performance advantage? > > The kernel copies between userland and the kernel. Er, no. See sys/kern/kern_physio.c for the details. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 23:34:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.kdm.org (panzer.kdm.org [216.160.178.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8240B37B401; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 23:34:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.kdm.org) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.kdm.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id AAA49055; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 00:34:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ken) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 00:34:47 -0600 From: "Kenneth D. Merry" To: Mike Smith Cc: Kevin Hui , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Raw disk access in userland Message-ID: <20010705003447.A49002@panzer.kdm.org> References: <20010704211233.A48146@panzer.kdm.org> <200107050642.f656gox00974@mass.dis.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200107050642.f656gox00974@mass.dis.org>; from msmith@FreeBSD.ORG on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 11:42:50PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 23:42:50 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 20:18:51 -0400, Kevin Hui wrote: > > > Then the question is whether the kernel is copying data between userspace > > > and kernelspace or whether it just DMAs the data straight in/out of the > > > user program's address space. In Linux raw-io, given that it is a block > > > device and you are doing page-aligned block I/Os on it, is smart and does > > > zero copies. While it may seem to be jumping through hoops, maybe it does > > > have a performance advantage? > > > > The kernel copies between userland and the kernel. > > Er, no. > > See sys/kern/kern_physio.c for the details. *hits head* I (of all people) should have remembered that. I wrote the zero copy stuff for the pass(4) driver (see cam_periph_mapmem() in sys/cam/cam_periph.c) using physio as a model. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@kdm.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 4 23:36:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mecenia.org (210-232.sh.cgocable.ca [24.226.210.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873AF37B406 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 23:36:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ian@mecenia.org) Received: (from ian@localhost) by mecenia.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f656a0P77064 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 02:36:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ian) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 02:34:34 -0400 From: Ian Trudel To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" Subject: Re: [Q] msgs Message-ID: <20010705023434.D52856@mecenia.org> References: <20010702114249.A35512@mecenia.org> <20010703184308.B23688@mail.webmonster.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010703184308.B23688@mail.webmonster.de>; from karsten@rohrbach.de on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 06:43:08PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 06:43:08PM +0200, Karsten W. Rohrbach wrote: > omit the space? > /k I have tried with an ending space, it will not work and produce de same error. Actually, I have barely uncommented what was already there. I was suspecting permissions faultive, but as far as my tests goes, it's not the problem. as I was testing procmail, I had to add a .forward meanwhile I set the correct option in sendmail to use it as a backend, I had to put "|exec /usr/local/bin/procmail || exit 75" sendmail would just use to="|exec /usr/local/bin/procmail || exit 75" and it works! so, I don't know what's the problem with msgs. any more clue? ian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 0: 6:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailhub.fokus.gmd.de (mailhub.fokus.gmd.de [193.174.154.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51BB837B401; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 00:06:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brandt@fokus.gmd.de) Received: from beagle (beagle [193.175.132.100]) by mailhub.fokus.gmd.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29202; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:06:15 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:06:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Harti Brandt To: Cc: Subject: ()s missing in condvar.h Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, ()s are missing around the macro argument in cv_waitq_empty. The call if(!(cv_waitq_empty(&sc->foo_cv))) ... will otherwise fail to compile. harti Index: condvar.h =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/ncvs/src/sys/sys/condvar.h,v retrieving revision 1.2 diff -r1.2 condvar.h 66c66 < #define cv_waitq_empty(cvp) (TAILQ_EMPTY(&cvp->cv_waitq)) --- > #define cv_waitq_empty(cvp) (TAILQ_EMPTY(&(cvp)->cv_waitq)) -- harti brandt, http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/cats/employees/hartmut.brandt/private brandt@fokus.gmd.de, harti@begemot.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 3:43:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay1.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (www.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [212.111.192.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7136037B406 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 03:43:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simon@comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua) Received: from comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (eth0.comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [10.0.1.184]) by relay1.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (Postfix) with ESMTP id 025FA2F090; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:42:55 +0300 (EEST) Received: from pm5149 (pm514-9.comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [10.18.54.109]) by comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f65Aa1A22620; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:36:17 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <001401c10535$847748a0$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> From: "Andrey Simonenko" To: "Jordan Hubbard" Cc: References: <01c201c10468$b6a71e40$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> <20010704120221B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Subject: Re: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog. Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:32:59 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Original Message ----- From: Jordan Hubbard Newsgroups: lucky.freebsd.hackers Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 11:05 PM Subject: Re: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog. > I suppose that depends on how you define "future." Do we want to > be using libdialog in the year 2010? No, I would certainly hope > something better will have arrived by then. Do we have anything > better now or in the forseeable next 12 months? No also. > I don't mean this at all, I just wanted to know if somebody improve/patch/develop libdialog, or if somebody is going to remove and add another compatible library with libdialog to FreeBSD. Nobody (I at least) knows what will be in future. > Oh yeah, and I might as well take this opportunity to state this for > the public record: I DID NOT WRITE THAT EVIL THING. :-) > It was written by some guy in Hong Kong and extended by the slackware > folks. I just added the callback mechanism stuff so that the objects > weren't just "blobs" with no access to internal state transitions. I think that it is useful and simple library, I used dialog(1) in Perl script to get menu-like dialog. Unfortunatelly there are too many bugs in it and almost every line of source must be checked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 5:37:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bugz.infotecs.ru (bugz.infotecs.ru [195.210.139.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37DDA37B401 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 05:37:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vel@bugz.infotecs.ru) Received: (from vel@localhost) by bugz.infotecs.ru (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f65CpMp03726 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:51:22 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from vel) From: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Message-Id: <200107051251.f65CpMp03726@bugz.infotecs.ru> Subject: kernel panic when trying to use init's address space To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:51:22 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Some time ago I was asking about I/O in kernel mode when I don't have struct proc to use syscalls. Actually I just wanted my kld to read it's config file on load. Terry told me it's tricky, and I was thinking about possible workarounds. I decided to try the following: look for some process, get it's struct proc, allocate memory in it's address space using mmap() syscall and then use open() and read() syscalls, passing that struct proc to them. I first decided to look for init process for this, since it always exists. So it looked like that: struct proc *p; register_t save; char *buf; struct mmap_args mem; int res; for (p = allproc.lh_first; p && (strcmp(p->p_comm, "init")); p = p->p_list.le_next); if (!p) return -1; save = p->p_retval[0]; mem.addr = NULL; mem.len = size; mem.prot = PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE; mem.flags = MAP_ANON; mem.fd = -1; mem.pad = 0; mem.pos = 0; res = mmap(p, &mem); if (res) { p->p_retval[0] = save; return -1; } buf = (char *)p->p_retval[0]; p->p_retval[0] = save; *buf = 0; However at this point kernel panics with page fault. I really don't understand why could it be ... Of course, I've found another workaround. I recalled that kldload program is still active when my module loads, so I started looking for it instead of init. It works just fine, I'm able to allocate memory, use it and finally read my config file. But I'm curious, why doesn't it work with init ? What's so special in init from this point of view ? Regards, Eugene To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 5:58:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49DD937B403 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 05:58:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@mail.cicely.de) Received: from mail.cicely.de (cicely20 [10.1.1.22]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f65CwUV05154; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:58:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by mail.cicely.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f65CxIi08455; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:59:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:59:17 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel panic when trying to use init's address space Message-ID: <20010705145917.A7717@cicely20.cicely.de> References: <200107051251.f65CpMp03726@bugz.infotecs.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107051251.f65CpMp03726@bugz.infotecs.ru>; from vel@bugz.infotecs.ru on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 04:51:22PM +0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 04:51:22PM +0400, Eugene L. Vorokov wrote: > Hello, > > Some time ago I was asking about I/O in kernel mode when I don't have > struct proc to use syscalls. Actually I just wanted my kld to read it's > config file on load. Terry told me it's tricky, and I was thinking > about possible workarounds. I decided to try the following: look for > some process, get it's struct proc, allocate memory in it's address > space using mmap() syscall and then use open() and read() syscalls, > passing that struct proc to them. I first decided to look for init > process for this, since it always exists. So it looked like that: > > struct proc *p; register_t save; char *buf; > struct mmap_args mem; int res; > > for (p = allproc.lh_first; > p && (strcmp(p->p_comm, "init")); > p = p->p_list.le_next); If yhou don't care whicvh process you can just do: struct proc *p = &proc0; > if (!p) > return -1; > save = p->p_retval[0]; > mem.addr = NULL; > mem.len = size; > mem.prot = PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE; > mem.flags = MAP_ANON; > mem.fd = -1; > mem.pad = 0; > mem.pos = 0; > res = mmap(p, &mem); > if (res) > { > p->p_retval[0] = save; > return -1; > } > buf = (char *)p->p_retval[0]; > p->p_retval[0] = save; > *buf = 0; > > However at this point kernel panics with page fault. I really don't > understand why could it be ... > > Of course, I've found another workaround. I recalled that kldload > program is still active when my module loads, so I started looking > for it instead of init. It works just fine, I'm able to allocate > memory, use it and finally read my config file. But I'm curious, > why doesn't it work with init ? What's so special in init from this > point of view ? You are mmaping into the address space for the process you use the struct proc from. As long as it's this programm that is curproc everything is fine. That means you are called from that process such in kldload or interrupted that proccess. What you need is to use the address space that is common to all proccess while working in kernel mode not into the proccess specific. I don't know if it is possible to mmap into that space. -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de Usergroup info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 6:42:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from odin.isw.intel.com (swfdns01.isw.intel.com [192.55.37.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E03A37B401; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 06:42:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from achim.leubner@intel.com) Received: from swsmsxvs01.isw.intel.com (swsmsxvs01.isw.intel.com [172.28.130.22]) by odin.isw.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.40 2001/06/06 21:14:49 root Exp $) with SMTP id NAA11669; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:42:44 GMT Received: from swsmsx17.isw.intel.com ([172.28.130.21]) by swsmsxvs01.isw.intel.com (NAVIEG 2.1 bld 68) with SMTP id M2001070514421019235 ; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 14:42:10 +0100 Received: by swsmsx17.isw.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:43:15 +0100 Message-ID: <0BC6380419FED411AFDC00A0C98404EA13F4D4@musmsx91.imu.intel.com> From: "Leubner, Achim" To: msmith@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SCSI Boot order Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:42:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG One of our testers has a boot problem with FreeBSD 4.3. He installed the OS on a onboard SCSI drive. After installing the FreeBSD driver of our ICP controllers and inserting a ICP card with one disk attached, the system has a boot problem. FreeBSD cannot mount the root file system (I think because the ICP controller becomes the first controller and the onboard controller is now the second controller). Is there any way to change the boot order? Which kernel module is responsible for the order of driver loading? Any help is greatly appreciated. Many thanks! Regards, Achim Achim Leubner Research & Development ICP vortex Computersysteme GmbH, an Intel company Gostritzer Str. 61-63 D-01217 Dresden, Germany Phone: +49-351-871-8291 Fax: +49-351-871-8448 Mail: achim.leubner@intel.com Url: www.icp-vortex.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 8:17:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FAA837B406; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 08:17:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f65FH9125834; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:17:09 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:17:08 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: "Leubner, Achim" Cc: msmith@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI Boot order In-Reply-To: <0BC6380419FED411AFDC00A0C98404EA13F4D4@musmsx91.imu.intel.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:42:41 +0100 > From: "Leubner, Achim" > > One of our testers has a boot problem with FreeBSD 4.3. He installed > the OS on a onboard SCSI drive. After installing the FreeBSD driver > of our ICP controllers and inserting a ICP card with one disk > attached, the system has a boot problem. FreeBSD cannot mount the > root file system (I think because the ICP controller becomes the > first controller and the onboard controller is now the second > controller). Is there any way to change the boot order? Which kernel > module is responsible for the order of driver loading? Any help is > greatly appreciated. Many thanks! Boot order is a BIOS thing. Turn off the ICP BIOS, keep the on-board SCSI BIOS on. You might need to manually wire down which SCSI bus and drives are what devices in your kernel config. i.e., what might have been called /dev/da0 could now be /dev/da1. Personally, I'd change /etc/fstab instead of messing with device naming in the kernel. Eddy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita/(Inter)national Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: A Trap To: blacklist@brics.com Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to , or you are likely to be blocked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 8:37:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6CAB37B401 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 08:37:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f65FbCt73250; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 08:37:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: simon@comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog. In-Reply-To: <001401c10535$847748a0$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> References: <01c201c10468$b6a71e40$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> <20010704120221B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <001401c10535$847748a0$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010705083712Z.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 08:37:12 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 13 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: "Andrey Simonenko" Subject: Re: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog. Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:32:59 +0400 > I don't mean this at all, I just wanted to know if somebody > improve/patch/develop libdialog, or if somebody is going > to remove and add another compatible library with libdialog > to FreeBSD. Nobody (I at least) knows what will be in future. I don't think anyone is going to add another compatible library, so if you would like to improve libdialog, I think that's great! - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 9:21: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.magma.ca (mx2.magma.ca [206.191.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B829C37B401 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:20:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from louisphilippe@macadamian.com) Received: from mail3.magma.ca (mail3.magma.ca [206.191.0.221]) by mx2.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00823; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:20:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from durandal (mothership.macadamian.com [206.191.21.204]) by mail3.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27559; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0cf601c1056e$580fb390$2964a8c0@macadamian.com> From: "Louis-Philippe Gagnon" To: "Daniel Eischen" Cc: References: Subject: Re: pthread/longjmp/signal problem Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:20:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I finally got around to trying the patch on -stable; I can confirm that it solves the problem. Thanks again! Louis-Philippe Gagnon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Eischen" To: "Louis-Philippe Gagnon" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:08 PM Subject: Re: pthread/longjmp/signal problem > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Louis-Philippe Gagnon wrote: > > No reactions the first time, let's try again. > > > > I've encountered a problem in the interaction betwen signals, longjmp and > > pthreads; I'm hoping someone can help me make sense of it. > > > > I've been trying to implement a IsBadReadPtr-style function in FreeBSD by > > using signal handlers and longjmp/setjmp. It seemed to work as expected, > > until I started using the -pthread option to gcc (thus linking against > > libc_r). Now the function only works on the first call; subsequent calls > > hang on the segmentation fault. > > > > Here's an example of the kind of code that causes problems : > > Try this patch (to -stable). Only the patch to uthread_sig.c is > needed for -current. > > -- > Dan Eischen > > > Index: libc/i386/gen/setjmp.S > =================================================================== > RCS file: /opt/FreeBSD/cvs/src/lib/libc/i386/gen/setjmp.S,v > retrieving revision 1.17.2.1 > diff -u -r1.17.2.1 setjmp.S > --- libc/i386/gen/setjmp.S 2000/05/16 20:43:21 1.17.2.1 > +++ libc/i386/gen/setjmp.S 2001/06/26 21:07:23 > @@ -61,11 +61,7 @@ > pushl %eax /* (sigset_t*)oset */ > pushl $0 /* (sigset_t*)set */ > pushl $1 /* SIG_BLOCK */ > -#ifdef _THREAD_SAFE > - call PIC_PLT(CNAME(_thread_sys_sigprocmask)) > -#else > call PIC_PLT(CNAME(sigprocmask)) > -#endif > addl $12,%esp > PIC_EPILOGUE > movl 4(%esp),%ecx > @@ -91,11 +87,7 @@ > leal 28(%edx), %eax > pushl %eax /* (sigset_t*)set */ > pushl $3 /* SIG_SETMASK */ > -#ifdef _THREAD_SAFE > - call PIC_PLT(CNAME(_thread_sys_sigprocmask)) > -#else > call PIC_PLT(CNAME(sigprocmask)) > -#endif > addl $12,%esp > PIC_EPILOGUE > movl 4(%esp),%edx > Index: libc/i386/gen/sigsetjmp.S > =================================================================== > RCS file: /opt/FreeBSD/cvs/src/lib/libc/i386/gen/sigsetjmp.S,v > retrieving revision 1.19.2.1 > diff -u -r1.19.2.1 sigsetjmp.S > --- libc/i386/gen/sigsetjmp.S 2000/05/16 20:43:21 1.19.2.1 > +++ libc/i386/gen/sigsetjmp.S 2001/06/26 21:04:34 > @@ -70,11 +70,7 @@ > pushl %eax /* (sigset_t*)oset */ > pushl $0 /* (sigset_t*)set */ > pushl $1 /* SIG_BLOCK */ > -#ifdef _THREAD_SAFE > - call PIC_PLT(CNAME(_thread_sys_sigprocmask)) > -#else > call PIC_PLT(CNAME(sigprocmask)) > -#endif > addl $12,%esp > PIC_EPILOGUE > movl 4(%esp),%ecx > @@ -102,11 +98,7 @@ > leal 28(%edx), %eax > pushl %eax /* (sigset_t*)set */ > pushl $3 /* SIG_SETMASK */ > -#ifdef _THREAD_SAFE > - call PIC_PLT(CNAME(_thread_sys_sigprocmask)) > -#else > call PIC_PLT(CNAME(sigprocmask)) > -#endif > addl $12,%esp > PIC_EPILOGUE > movl 4(%esp),%edx > Index: libc_r/uthread/uthread_sig.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /opt/FreeBSD/cvs/src/lib/libc_r/uthread/uthread_sig.c,v > retrieving revision 1.25.2.7 > diff -u -r1.25.2.7 uthread_sig.c > --- libc_r/uthread/uthread_sig.c 2001/06/23 00:47:05 1.25.2.7 > +++ libc_r/uthread/uthread_sig.c 2001/06/26 20:56:52 > @@ -931,6 +931,12 @@ > thread->curframe = NULL; > PTHREAD_ASSERT(psf != NULL, "Invalid signal frame in signal handler"); > > + /* > + * We came here from the kernel scheduler; clear the in scheduler > + * flag. > + */ > + _thread_kern_in_sched = 0; > + > /* Check the threads previous state: */ > if (psf->saved_state.psd_state != PS_RUNNING) { > /* > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 9:41:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9BF37B406 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:41:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:54:11 +0100 Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9D30@l04.research.kpn.com> From: "Koster, K.J." To: 'Garance A Drosihn' Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: recent 4.3-stable freezes my SMP box Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:54:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > >I just upgraded one of my boxes to FreeBSD 4.3-stable with > >cvsup. Unfortunately the machine now freezes. > > If you are tracking -stable, then there is a lot of good reason > to keep an eye the freebsd-stable mailing list. Particularly > when something like this comes up. > *blush* I've been running FreeBSD since 2.1.0 and only now I learn that there is a -stable list as well as a -current list. Why didn't anyone tell me? :) The SMP box is happily churning away on a new installation. Problem solved. Thanks to all involved. Kees Jan ================================================ You are only young once, but you can stay immature all your life. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 10:39: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from srv12-poa.poa.terra.com.br (srv12-poa.terra.com.br [200.176.2.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9957737B401 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:39:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gandalf@sum.desktop.com.br) Received: from srv9-sao.sao.terra.com.br (srv9-sao.sao.terra.com.br [200.177.250.46]) by srv12-poa.poa.terra.com.br (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f65HYnD12303 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:38:36 -0300 (GMT) Received: from marcelo ([200.207.52.86]) by srv9-sao.sao.terra.com.br (8.11.0/8.11.1) with SMTP id f65HYlc21541 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:34:47 -0300 Message-ID: <004001c10579$c4d416a0$0b01a8c0@marcelo> From: "Marcelo Pereira" To: Subject: NIS Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:41:45 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All, Can I set up my NIS Server to serve both FreeBSD and Linux clients ?? Thanks in advance, Marcelo Pereira Math. - Unicamp [Brazil] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 10:57:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B82B37B403 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:57:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@mail.cicely.de) Received: from mail.cicely.de (cicely20 [10.1.1.22]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f65HvcV06665; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:57:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by mail.cicely.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f65HwQi09248; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:58:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:58:25 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: Bernd Walter Cc: "Eugene L. Vorokov" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kernel panic when trying to use init's address space Message-ID: <20010705195825.E8794@cicely20.cicely.de> References: <200107051251.f65CpMp03726@bugz.infotecs.ru> <20010705145917.A7717@cicely20.cicely.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010705145917.A7717@cicely20.cicely.de>; from ticso@mail.cicely.de on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 02:59:17PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 02:59:17PM +0200, Bernd Walter wrote: > You are mmaping into the address space for the process you use the > struct proc from. > As long as it's this programm that is curproc everything is fine. > That means you are called from that process such in kldload or > interrupted that proccess. > What you need is to use the address space that is common to all > proccess while working in kernel mode not into the proccess specific. > I don't know if it is possible to mmap into that space. Sorry for that bad english and for the massive typos. I hope you understood what I was trying to write. Guess it's bad to enjoy natures sun for to long... Going to back to enjoy sun computers which aren't that critical if used for hours. -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de Usergroup info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 11: 3:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A04CC37B405; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:03:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@mail.cicely.de) Received: from mail.cicely.de (cicely20 [10.1.1.22]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f65I3TV06694; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:03:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by mail.cicely.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f65I4Ex09271; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:04:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:04:14 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: Terry Lambert Cc: "Michael C . Wu" , "E.B. Dreger" , freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quick question: AIO / SMP / process-based threading Message-ID: <20010705200414.F8794@cicely20.cicely.de> References: <20010630005749.A72545@peorth.iteration.net> <3B41AAAA.3EC17263@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B41AAAA.3EC17263@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 04:21:14AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 04:21:14AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > "Michael C . Wu" wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 05:47:49AM +0000, E.B. Dreger scribbled: > > | 1. Is AIO SMP-safe? > > > > AIO is not safe, SMP or not. > > Are you maybe confusion AIO (a POSIX mandated API) with > async mounts? > > AIO works fine, I think, and is happy with SMP. At least there is still a warning for VFS_AIO in -currents NOTES. But I asume they are OK for devices and sockets which is much more interesting in the usual case. -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de Usergroup info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 14:33:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 885) id EA86837B405; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:33:39 -0700 From: Eric Melville To: Andrey Simonenko Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog. Message-ID: <20010705143339.A98165@FreeBSD.org> References: <01c201c10468$b6a71e40$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <01c201c10468$b6a71e40$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua>; from simon@comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 01:07:12PM +0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm working on some patches for dialog(1) and libdialog. > Does FreeBSD team want to continue use of dialog(1) program > and libdialog in future? I ask this question because I fix > some problems I have with dialog(1) (really with libdialog) and > I'm going to try to fix the same problems with all functions in > libdialog, so I want to know if it will be interesting for FreeBSD. > I saw some bug reports for dialog/libdialog, but didn't see "good" > reactions on that PRs. I'm currently working on libdialog, hopefully making the interface a bit more sensible. I'd like to see what you're up too, hopefully we're not duplicating efforts. Currently the plan is to commit this stuff in a day or two. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 15: 4:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from vbook.express.ru (h170.37.elnet.msk.ru [195.58.37.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D9537B408 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:04:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vova@express.ru) Received: from vova by vbook.express.ru with local (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15IHFZ-0003As-00; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 02:05:29 +0400 From: "Vladimir B. Grebenschikov" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15172.58536.932722.980245@vbook.express.ru> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 02:05:28 +0400 (MSD) To: Julian Elischer Cc: Nicolai Petri , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: An netgraph firewall module ? Is this possible / good performing ? In-Reply-To: <3B3C198F.F21EABB3@elischer.org> References: <008e01c0fafd$034e8000$8632a8c0@atomic.dk> <3B3C198F.F21EABB3@elischer.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer writes: > Nicolai Petri wrote: > > > > Hi hackers, > > > > I've used some time writing a custom natd like daemon which makes som > > speciel packet processing. > > One of the issues with the natd approach is the large amount of > > context-switches it gives. > > This can be a real performance problem on very loaded networks. Would it be > > possible to do this with netgraph instead. And what is the pro's and con's > > for this approach. > > > > As a second step in developement how should protocol verification > > (ftp/smtp/whatever) be added to a netgraph firewall approach in a structured > > and dynamic extendable way ? > > Unfortunatly, the netgraph code does not have a hook into the IP > code so at this time you cannot pass packets into the > IP protocol and have them then go to netgraph. > > You could however put a filter onto the ethernet interface, but then you'd have > to take into account the 14 byte header too. I think you are not right, it is possible to use ksocket node to read diverted packets from firewall rules and inject they back (I am use such setup) and I am write small netgraph node for doing very simple specific nat for high traffic, with no per-packet context-switches. # ngctl -f - << EOF mkpeer tee dummy left2right name .:dummy tee mkpeer tee: ksocket left inet/raw/divert msg tee:left bind inet/0.0.0.0:11 mkpeer tee: echo right echo EOF # ipfw divert 11 ip from any to any out via someif0 above example simple rebonuce all outgoing packets from interface someif0 There one known problem - there no work loop-prevention mechanism for such scheme, and if injected through divert socket packet going into divert socket again we will have kernel panic. I have write about this problem to archie@whistle.com (author of netgraph and divert mechanisms) I think it will really cool to have natd ported into kernel. > > Best regards, > > Nicolai Petri -- TSB Russian Express, Moscow Vladimir B. Grebenschikov, vova@express.ru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 15:35:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B666937B401 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:35:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (InterJet.elischer.org [192.168.1.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA29468; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:15:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: "Vladimir B. Grebenschikov" Cc: Nicolai Petri , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: An netgraph firewall module ? Is this possible / good performing ? In-Reply-To: <15172.58536.932722.980245@vbook.express.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG you are correct. I had forgotten about that.. On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Vladimir B. Grebenschikov wrote: > Julian Elischer writes: > > Nicolai Petri wrote: > > > > > > Hi hackers, > > > > > > I've used some time writing a custom natd like daemon which makes som > > > speciel packet processing. > > > One of the issues with the natd approach is the large amount of > > > context-switches it gives. > > > This can be a real performance problem on very loaded networks. Would it be > > > possible to do this with netgraph instead. And what is the pro's and con's > > > for this approach. > > > > > > As a second step in developement how should protocol verification > > > (ftp/smtp/whatever) be added to a netgraph firewall approach in a structured > > > and dynamic extendable way ? > > > > Unfortunatly, the netgraph code does not have a hook into the IP > > code so at this time you cannot pass packets into the > > IP protocol and have them then go to netgraph. > > > > You could however put a filter onto the ethernet interface, but then you'd have > > to take into account the 14 byte header too. > > I think you are not right, it is possible to use ksocket node to > read diverted packets from firewall rules and inject they back (I am use > such setup) and I am write small netgraph node for doing very simple > specific nat for high traffic, with no per-packet context-switches. > > # ngctl -f - << EOF > mkpeer tee dummy left2right > name .:dummy tee > mkpeer tee: ksocket left inet/raw/divert > msg tee:left bind inet/0.0.0.0:11 > mkpeer tee: echo right echo > EOF > # ipfw divert 11 ip from any to any out via someif0 > > above example simple rebonuce all outgoing packets from interface someif0 > > There one known problem - there no work loop-prevention mechanism for > such scheme, and if injected through divert socket packet going into > divert socket again we will have kernel panic. > > I have write about this problem to archie@whistle.com > (author of netgraph and divert mechanisms) Actually I wrote netgfraph and divert with Archie, so you might send me a more detailed description :-) > > I think it will really cool to have natd ported into kernel. > > > > Best regards, > > > Nicolai Petri > > -- > TSB Russian Express, Moscow > Vladimir B. Grebenschikov, vova@express.ru > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 16:40:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (ip-208.54.94.63.mobilestar.net [208.54.94.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B391837B440; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:39:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.11.3/8.9.3) id f65N0w800549; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:00:58 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:55:38 -0500 From: Greg Lehey To: Len Conrad Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010705175538.C455@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703230504.02f8fe50@mail.Go2France.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703230504.02f8fe50@mail.Go2France.com>; from LConrad@Go2France.com on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 11:08:57PM +0200 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 3 July 2001 at 23:08:57 +0200, Len Conrad wrote: > I´m trying to gather tuning information for Wietse Venema who says: > > "I'm writing a document that describes how to crank up FreeBSD so > that it can run lots of processes, and so that it can handle lots > of connections. > > Right now, these guidelines vary from sysctl, loader.conf, to > recompiling a kernel. This is confusing." > > Of course, what he means "lots of connections" required by 100´s and > 100´s of smtp and smtpd processes in postfix. What system does Wietse normally use? I've just discovered how very badly Linux handles a large number of processes, and it's possible that Wietse thinks that FreeBSD is as bad. Hundreds of processes are not an issue; ftp.FreeBSD.org used to handle thousands. Before we fix a problem, we should know what it is, and if it even exists. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 17:32: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from erouter0.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (erouter0.it-datacntr.louisville.edu [136.165.1.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC5137B405; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:31:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keith.stevenson@louisville.edu) Received: from osaka.louisville.edu (osaka.louisville.edu [136.165.1.114]) by erouter0.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 278B411B7; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:31:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by osaka.louisville.edu (Postfix, from userid 15) id BCB9018613; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:31:56 -0400 From: Keith Stevenson To: Greg Lehey Cc: Len Conrad , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010705203156.C38703@osaka.louisville.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703230504.02f8fe50@mail.Go2France.com> <20010705175538.C455@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010705175538.C455@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com>; from grog@FreeBSD.org on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 05:55:38PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 05:55:38PM -0500, Greg Lehey wrote: > > What system does Wietse normally use? I've just discovered how very > badly Linux handles a large number of processes, and it's possible > that Wietse thinks that FreeBSD is as bad. Hundreds of processes are > not an issue; ftp.FreeBSD.org used to handle thousands. Before we fix > a problem, we should know what it is, and if it even exists. I'm joining in a bit late, but it's my understanding that Wietse develops postfix on an older FreeBSD system. He may have made some choice statements about FreeBSD, but his criticisms of Linux, especially the filesystems, are scorching. Regards, --Keith Stevenson-- -- Keith Stevenson System Programmer - Data Center Services - University of Louisville keith.stevenson@louisville.edu GPG key fingerprint = 332D 97F0 6321 F00F 8EE7 2D44 00D8 F384 75BB 89AE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 17:35: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sneakerz.org (sneakerz.org [216.33.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF0237B401; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:35:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@sneakerz.org) Received: by sneakerz.org (Postfix, from userid 1092) id 725B55D01F; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:34:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:34:50 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Keith Stevenson Cc: Greg Lehey , Len Conrad , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD Message-ID: <20010705193450.B79818@sneakerz.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010703230504.02f8fe50@mail.Go2France.com> <20010705175538.C455@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> <20010705203156.C38703@osaka.louisville.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20010705203156.C38703@osaka.louisville.edu>; from keith.stevenson@louisville.edu on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 08:31:56PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Keith Stevenson [010705 19:32] wrote: > On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 05:55:38PM -0500, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > > What system does Wietse normally use? I've just discovered how very > > badly Linux handles a large number of processes, and it's possible > > that Wietse thinks that FreeBSD is as bad. Hundreds of processes are > > not an issue; ftp.FreeBSD.org used to handle thousands. Before we fix > > a problem, we should know what it is, and if it even exists. > > I'm joining in a bit late, but it's my understanding that Wietse develops > postfix on an older FreeBSD system. He may have made some choice > statements about FreeBSD, but his criticisms of Linux, especially the > filesystems, are scorching. Where can one read his criticisms? -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? And why do my programs keep crashing in it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 17:39: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.matriplex.com (ns1.matriplex.com [208.131.42.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24FFD37B403 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:39:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Received: from mail.matriplex.com (mail.matriplex.com [208.131.42.9]) by mail.matriplex.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA06259 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:38:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:38:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: kern/28748: HARP may reject SVCs from certain ATM switches Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just discovered an interesting bug in HARP that prevents SVCs from working on a Xylan switch, and maybe others. The PR is kern/28748, and it includes a detailed description of the problem and a simple patch. Any takers? Thanks, -Richard To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 17:46:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B79B37B401; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:46:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA94814; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:46:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:46:43 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Christoph Sold Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, doc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Request for tech review: half of FreeBSD book Message-ID: <20010705204643.A94694@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20010703202355.A87390@blackhelicopters.org> <3B42BF54.E5AE73CD@i-clue.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3B42BF54.E5AE73CD@i-clue.de>; from so@server.i-clue.de on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 09:01:40AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nay, enough! You know, when I requested an article review here several months ago, I was impressed that I got almost fifty responses. "So," I think, "how many people could possibly want to review a book?" In about forty-eight hours, that comes to about 170 people. I want to publically thank everyone who volunteered. Responses came from committers, technical editors from other companies, people I've seen on -hackers for years, and countless folks who must just read -hackers in hope of achieving enlightenment. I can't possibly use everyone. Even if I had that many books to hand out to reviewers (which I don't), and even if I took all the reviewers to Taco Bell during BSDCon (all I could afford to feed that many people), I wouldn't have time to *read* that many reviews. Tonight, I'll be doing my best to wade through these volunteers and try to pick out a few. Many of you are so bloody qualified it's not even funny, and I'm extremely gratified that you're all so willing to take a chunk of your time to review a book. If you don't hear from me, it doesn't mean that I think you suck. It just means that FreeBSD has one hell of a community. :) Thanks again, Michael -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org http://www.blackhelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Big Scary Daemons: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 18:37: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1F937B408; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:37:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 6531855407; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5362351610; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:21:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Linh Pham To: Michael Lucas Cc: Christoph Sold , , Subject: Re: Request for tech review: half of FreeBSD book In-Reply-To: <20010705204643.A94694@blackhelicopters.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2001-07-05, Michael Lucas scribbled: # I want to publically thank everyone who volunteered. Responses came # from committers, technical editors from other companies, people I've # seen on -hackers for years, and countless folks who must just read # -hackers in hope of achieving enlightenment. I thought that I was reading -hackers in hope of finding [a] QT... Enlightenment, QT... [rimshot] n/m :) -- Linh Pham [lplist@closedsrc.org] // 404b - Brain not found To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 18:38:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from vimfuego.saarinen.org (saarinen.org [203.79.82.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB92637B409; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:38:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from juha@saarinen.org) Received: from vimfuego.saarinen.org ([192.168.1.1]) by vimfuego.saarinen.org with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Red Hack)) id 15IKZS-0002iG-00; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:38:14 +1200 Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:38:14 +1200 (NZST) From: Juha Saarinen To: Keith Stevenson Cc: "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20010705203156.C38703@osaka.louisville.edu> Message-ID: X-S: Always MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Keith Stevenson wrote: > I'm joining in a bit late, but it's my understanding that Wietse develops > postfix on an older FreeBSD system. He may have made some choice > statements about FreeBSD, but his criticisms of Linux, especially the > filesystems, are scorching. Are these archived somewhere? On the Postfix mailing list? -- Regards, Juha PGP fingerprint: B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502 10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 19:24:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70CE537B405; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:24:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f662OYM65792; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:24:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43DC93809; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 19:24:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Len Conrad , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: helping Wietse help postfix on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20010705175538.C455@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 19:24:34 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010706022434.43DC93809@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > On Tuesday, 3 July 2001 at 23:08:57 +0200, Len Conrad wrote: > > I´m trying to gather tuning information for Wietse Venema who says: > > > > "I'm writing a document that describes how to crank up FreeBSD so > > that it can run lots of processes, and so that it can handle lots > > of connections. > > > > Right now, these guidelines vary from sysctl, loader.conf, to > > recompiling a kernel. This is confusing." > > > > Of course, what he means "lots of connections" required by 100´s and > > 100´s of smtp and smtpd processes in postfix. > > What system does Wietse normally use? I've just discovered how very > badly Linux handles a large number of processes, and it's possible > that Wietse thinks that FreeBSD is as bad. Hundreds of processes are > not an issue; ftp.FreeBSD.org used to handle thousands. Before we fix > a problem, we should know what it is, and if it even exists. The other interesting thing to throw into the mix is that mx2.freebsd.org really causes some pain for postfix. We needed to make quite a few tweaks to get it to run well. postfix's biggest problem is that it uses select() and is extremely vulnerable to select collisions (as in: millions per day on mx2.freebsd.org at one point). FreeBSD's scheduler is not up to the task. We run 512 parallel delivery smtp senders on mx2, and this causes severe pain for the kernel. It thrashes priorities and does generally really unhappy things. We had to do things like run certain processes in realtime priority mode to avoid the starvation when the scheduler drastically overcompensates and moves the key processes out of the top priority band slot (slot 0 in the 32 run queues). We also had to make the context switching happen a lot faster. Running sched_cpu() at 1 second intervals just SUCKS because it takes a full second to correct drastic miscalculations. (we run HZ faster, reduce kern.quantum, tweak the sched_cpu run rate and algorithms, run stuff in rtprio mode (qmgr), etc) In spite of this, we do get the majority of the mailing list recipients delivered in a few seconds. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 22:59:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp3.port.ru (mx3.port.ru [194.67.23.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B883637B401 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 22:59:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from megaimp@mail.ru) Received: from ppp20.solver.net.ua ([194.44.39.20]) by smtp3.port.ru with esmtp (Exim 3.14 #2) id 15IOdt-000BdW-00 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:59:06 +0400 Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:58:31 +0300 From: Belial X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.41) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <4373.010706@mail.ru> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PC with two monitors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello all! I have PC with dual head video card (Matrox G450) which supports to use both heads independently. I can attach to it two monitors or monitor and tv. Also I can attach two mice(ps/2 and serial) and two keyboards(ps/2 and usb). How I can use all that as two terminals in FreeBSD 4.2? I mean I want to launch vim on first terminal and netscape on second one for example. Is this possible? May be somebody inserted two video cards in one PC? (two normal video cards or first onboard and second normal) I think it is the similar problem. ps I have driver for G450 which fully supports my card under X 4.0.1 with two monitors. But I don't know how I can divide control between two pairs of input devices(mice and keyboards). Thanks a lot, Anton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 23:50:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF8437B401; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:50:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=b22a31b5cfc59a61e11caf12524d8b7d) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15IPWP-0000A2-00; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:55:25 -0600 Message-ID: <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:55:25 -0600 From: Wes Peters Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: Eric Wayte , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > If WindRiver gets on the ball and keeps fulfilling CD orders, why then this > name might continue to be worth something. Otherwise, it will go away and > the FreeBSD CD distributions will simply take place through other > distributors. Or not, if every other distributor that actually cares to distribute FreeBSD has dried up and blown away because WRS has been handing out exclusive access to the "official" FreeBSD ISO images. > This in some ways is even more desirable because as long as > Walnut Creek was around, there was no demand for FreeBSD distributions at > places like Linux Central, thus those places didn't even carry it. You're assuming that not having Walnut Creek around is going to be good for Linux Central, or good for FreeBSD? I personally wouldn't give a bucket of warm spit for Linux Central's well being, but am quite worried about the well being of FreeBSD in the near future. > Is it _bad_ for a Linux CD distributor to be selling FreeBSD copies? > No, and it also gives the Project more advertising. But that's not what the situation is. Let's be truthful here, Ted, and ask "Is it _bad_ for WRS to award exclusive distribution contracts without the permission of the FreeBSD contributors? Is it bad for WRS to award these to a Linux site, leaving one or more very interested BSD distributors twisting in the wind? Is it _bad_ for WRS to simply flush the long-standing distribution arrangements without any fore- warning, leaving hundreds of people wondering where their orders are?" Yes, all of the above are bad, and they're a sign of an even worse problem. FreeBSD has done well for the past 8 years due in large part because it an energetic and persuasive "product manager" in the person of Jordan K. Hubbard pushing, cajoling, and badgering the CD-ROM product through the arduous steps of production. Those who think this process happens on auto-pilot are deluded; it has to be baby- stepped through every time. For very good reason, Jordan is no longer in a position to do this. We as the FreeBSD community need to decide what we're going to do about this, and we need to decide before another disastrous release cycle happens. WRS does not have any legal standing to create such a closed and exclusive distribution arrangement, FreeBSD is *our* product, not theirs. *WE* need to decide what *WE* want to do about this, and move along in an orderly fashion, or *WE* will lose the ability to do any- thing about it. Specifically, we need a Product Manager who can shepherd FreeBSD through the release process, and coordinate with CD-ROM distributor(s) who are interested in producing and selling CDs, DVDs, etc of the "official" FreeBSD distribution. I've directed replies to -hackers because this issue is of concern to the entire FreeBSD community. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 5 23:53: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF2437B406 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:53:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=4b1c07b82dfada9dbb05b5c38f3671bd) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15IPZ4-0000A8-00; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:58:10 -0600 Message-ID: <3B456181.D932610A@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:58:10 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rayson Ho Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C++ to C translator References: <20010704024501.73299.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Rayson Ho wrote: > > Hi, > > I have written some code in C++. However, I want to run it on an old > mainframe machine, which a C++ compiler is not available. > > I know that the old g++ is a C++ to C compiler. Does anyone know which > version it is? 1.x was a C++ to C compiler. Good luck, it was pretty rough to use under the best of circumstances. You might want to inquire what compiler the Linux on mainframe folks are using, though I don't know that it is a C++ compiler. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 0: 0:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-93.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0159937B63C; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 00:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7525766C4D; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 00:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 00:00:43 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: jkh@freeBSD.org, wes@FreeBSD.org, Ted Mittelstaedt , Eric Wayte , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010706000043.A47333@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7AUc2qLy4jB3hD7Z" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com>; from wes@softweyr.com on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 12:55:25AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --7AUc2qLy4jB3hD7Z Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 12:55:25AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > For very good reason, Jordan is no longer in a position to do this. We > as the FreeBSD community need to decide what we're going to do about > this, and we need to decide before another disastrous release cycle > happens. WRS does not have any legal standing to create such a closed > and exclusive distribution arrangement, FreeBSD is *our* product, not > theirs. *WE* need to decide what *WE* want to do about this, and move > along in an orderly fashion, or *WE* will lose the ability to do any- > thing about it. >=20 > Specifically, we need a Product Manager who can shepherd FreeBSD through > the release process, and coordinate with CD-ROM distributor(s) who are > interested in producing and selling CDs, DVDs, etc of the "official" > FreeBSD distribution. Something that wasn't clear to me from Jordan's message to -announce is whether he will continue to be the FreeBSD Release Engineer. If he is, then whatever Jordan churns out for 4.4 is the official product. If not, then the FreeBSD committers need to find a new release engineer to do that job, and WRS can package up those bits or make their own distribution as they see fit. There are still people like John Baldwin at WRS who have been learning the release engineering ropes over the past few releases, who could feasibly coordinate on that side. Concomitant to this is the need to transfer the FreeBSD trademark from WRS to the FreeBSD Foundation (which should be possible now that the latter actually has legal standing), which is apparently going to happen but something we need to make sure *does* happen in the next month or two. Kris --7AUc2qLy4jB3hD7Z Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7RWIaWry0BWjoQKURAj9lAJ92tbadpvBGMVQ9u+ZAHuQDT61hPwCgkVfN b9ZkwZh6p0DXkQn2e2H/rIo= =kfcC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7AUc2qLy4jB3hD7Z-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 0:13:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B07D937B405 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 00:13:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=66fbcc5e0b410fffc07a13cbe683a866) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15IPsb-0000Al-00; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 01:18:21 -0600 Message-ID: <3B45663D.5660766F@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 01:18:21 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marc Cc: Bsdguru@aol.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Marc wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 07/03/2001 11:57:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > noses@noses.com writes: > > > > > > Now try to imagine a whole PC on a smaller board than a PIII CPU > > > > cartridge. If you can't, get a copy of the Embedded Systems magazine > > > > and look at the pictures in it. > > > > > > Imagine a complete 80186 system with 512k RAM and 512K flash disk, two > > > serial ports, 14 digital IO lines and an Ethernet in a 32 pin DIL package. > > > They are planning to replace the 80186 module by a 80386 in a few weeks. > > > If you can't belive it you might take a look at www.bcl.de. Now if it only > > > had enough flash for a PicoBSD it might make a good pocket ISDN router... > > > > > > > We can "picture" it, but such a system can't route a full 100mb/s ethernet, > > so its fairly useless as a network device/router as is proposed here. > > So try the MachZ processor then... Screw the MachZ, look at PowerPC 405GP, Intel XScale, or any other processor that was *designed* for embedded communications work. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 0:39:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B99537B403 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 00:39:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=a3bfc92705be4431e150b06cb215a8c9) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15IQHq-0000BM-00; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 01:44:26 -0600 Message-ID: <3B456C5A.8FDC8ED6@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 01:44:26 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tlambert2@mindspring.com Cc: Bsdguru@aol.com, nate@yogotech.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of encryption hardware support in FreeBSD References: <12d.dc435a.28724adf@aol.com> <3B41BA57.48F3788A@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > I think you'll find that Wes Peters has worked on a number > of them as well (one of his is now called "Intel InBusiness" > servers). My Internet Station ran VxWorks because we didn't have enough CPU budget for anything else, and because we were fighting political wars over a lot of issues back then. Later members of the InBusiness line, produced to my great astonishment, did use FreeBSD, but not the one that needed it the most -- the email server. > Most of us were extremely pissed off when /dev/random went > in and made 386 and 486 class hardware crawl on its knees, > since embedded systems have different requirements for > things like moving parts, heat dissipation, etc., than > general purpose computers posing as embedded systems. Trying to run any sort of SSL on a 486-class processor now is a losing game, wiping out two entire generations of processors. PCs are very expensive for such inexpensive computers. Now I'm working on a design that is powered by a 12-volt deep cycle battery and keep ending up with RTEMS or uClinux on the device because *BSD doesn't really do low-power (as in current draw) hardware anymore. I can base this project on an Atmel AT91 (ARM THUMB) or Motorola ColdFire cpu, load a pretty much standard uClinux or RTEMS build on it, and still be able to talk on the VHF, or I can run it on BSD and sell generators to go with it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 0:46:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from out5.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (out5.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net [169.207.2.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 176CA37B408; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 00:46:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from pop4.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (pop4.nwbl.wi.voyager.net [169.207.2.83]) by out5.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f667mkZ01904; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 02:48:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from john.execpc.com (d34.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net [169.207.134.34]) by pop4.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f667f1Y05319; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 02:41:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010706020157.026cea40@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: fpawlak/mail.execpc.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 02:47:21 -0500 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Ted Mittelstaedt , wes@softweyr.com From: Frank Pawlak Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:55 AM 7/6/2001 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: >Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > > > If WindRiver gets on the ball and keeps fulfilling CD orders, why then this > > name might continue to be worth something. Otherwise, it will go away and > > the FreeBSD CD distributions will simply take place through other > > distributors. > >Or not, if every other distributor that actually cares to distribute >FreeBSD has dried up and blown away because WRS has been handing out >exclusive access to the "official" FreeBSD ISO images. Very bad! Detrimental to the life of the project. > > This in some ways is even more desirable because as long as > > Walnut Creek was around, there was no demand for FreeBSD distributions at > > places like Linux Central, thus those places didn't even carry it. > >You're assuming that not having Walnut Creek around is going to be >good for Linux Central, or good for FreeBSD? I personally wouldn't >give a bucket of warm spit for Linux Central's well being, but am quite >worried about the well being of FreeBSD in the near future. I agree, the future of FreeBSD does look dim right now. It is being developed, but not promoted and distributed with any kind of profession consistency. And that is a crying shame. > > Is it _bad_ for a Linux CD distributor to be selling FreeBSD copies? > > No, and it also gives the Project more advertising. > >But that's not what the situation is. Let's be truthful here, Ted, >and ask "Is it _bad_ for WRS to award exclusive distribution contracts >without the permission of the FreeBSD contributors? Is it bad for WRS >to award these to a Linux site, leaving one or more very interested >BSD distributors twisting in the wind? Is it _bad_ for WRS to simply >flush the long-standing distribution arrangements without any fore- >warning, leaving hundreds of people wondering where their orders are?" That certainly will kill a bunch of interest in FreeBSD real quick. >Yes, all of the above are bad, and they're a sign of an even worse >problem. FreeBSD has done well for the past 8 years due in large part >because it an energetic and persuasive "product manager" in the person >of Jordan K. Hubbard pushing, cajoling, and badgering the CD-ROM >product through the arduous steps of production. Those who think >this process happens on auto-pilot are deluded; it has to be baby- >stepped through every time. He was a very unique member of the core team, and had a lot of salesman and public relations savvy. His departure leaves a gaping hole in the project as it now stands. However, it is my understanding that he was paid to do just those sort of things. It would appear that the work he did out side of release coordination would almost require a full time employee of the project. >For very good reason, Jordan is no longer in a position to do this. We >as the FreeBSD community need to decide what we're going to do about >this, and we need to decide before another disastrous release cycle >happens. WRS does not have any legal standing to create such a closed >and exclusive distribution arrangement, FreeBSD is *our* product, not >theirs. *WE* need to decide what *WE* want to do about this, and move >along in an orderly fashion, or *WE* will lose the ability to do any- >thing about it. Exactly. But will this require legal action action as in cease and desist? As far as I can surmise without a financial backer as was WC this is going to be very difficult. CD production and distribution costs money for a variety of reasons. Until that CD run is sold and out of inventory, it is a dead weight loss. Someone has to have a financial interest to provide the up-front money for manufacturing the CD's, promotion, and getting them into the proper distribution channels or we are facing a very steep if not impossible climb. Linux only caught fire after the various organizations began putting together distros with some consistency ala, Slackware which was generally a child of WC I believe. It was the profit motive that moved it forward. What part did any of this play in Jordan's decision to go to Apple? Was it that there was no day job at WRS? That is how I read his message of resignation. >Specifically, we need a Product Manager who can shepherd FreeBSD through >the release process, and coordinate with CD-ROM distributor(s) who are >interested in producing and selling CDs, DVDs, etc of the "official" >FreeBSD distribution. And that will be difficult to find without some outside financial support for that person. They will need a lot of freedom to travel to show the flag at shows, make speeches to various critical groups, all of the things that Jordan could do while at WC. How many of us can actually get away from our day jobs on a consistent basis to do those necessary things? I am not trying to spread gloom and doom here, but to look at the perceived reality of how things used to be. Frank >I've directed replies to -hackers because this issue is of concern to >the entire FreeBSD community. > >-- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > >Wes >Peters Softweyr LLC >wes@softweyr.com >http://softweyr.com/ > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 1: 5:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B97637B406 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:05:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ticso@mail.cicely.de) Received: from mail.cicely.de (cicely20 [10.1.1.22]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6685pV11625; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:05:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by mail.cicely.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f6686ah11764; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:06:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:06:35 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: Belial Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: PC with two monitors Message-ID: <20010706100635.D11608@cicely20.cicely.de> References: <4373.010706@mail.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4373.010706@mail.ru>; from megaimp@mail.ru on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 08:58:31AM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 08:58:31AM +0300, Belial wrote: > I have PC with dual head video card (Matrox G450) which supports to > use both heads independently. I can attach to it two monitors or > monitor and tv. Also I can attach two mice(ps/2 and serial) and > two keyboards(ps/2 and usb). > > How I can use all that as two terminals in FreeBSD 4.2? > I mean I want to launch vim on first terminal and netscape on second > one for example. > > Is this possible? > May be somebody inserted two video cards in one PC? (two normal video > cards or first onboard and second normal) > I think it is the similar problem. I'm using 2 Matrox Millenium cards under FreeBSD. On one card VGA support is disabled and only one is running for textmode. I'm also using only one set of keyboard and mouse - but I asume it should be possible to use more under X. I can't speak for textmode with more than one card but X11 is running fine with more than one card - only the xinerama mode crashed while starting. > ps I have driver for G450 which fully supports my card under X 4.0.1 > with two monitors. But I don't know how I can divide control between > two pairs of input devices(mice and keyboards). You can define specific devices in the serverlayout section. It's described in the XF86Config manpage. You the start the X sessions giving the layout as a parameter. -- B.Walter COSMO-Project http://www.cosmo-project.de ticso@cicely.de Usergroup info@cosmo-project.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 1:29:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B81F237B401; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:29:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f668PfG53418; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:25:41 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:25:41 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Ted Mittelstaedt , Eric Wayte , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010706092541.C23117@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1SQmhf2mF2YjsYvc" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com>; from wes@softweyr.com on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 12:55:25AM -0600 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --1SQmhf2mF2YjsYvc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 12:55:25AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > If WindRiver gets on the ball and keeps fulfilling CD orders, why then = this > > name might continue to be worth something. Otherwise, it will go away = and > > the FreeBSD CD distributions will simply take place through other > > distributors.=20 >=20 > Or not, if every other distributor that actually cares to distribute=20 > FreeBSD has dried up and blown away because WRS has been handing out=20 > exclusive access to the "official" FreeBSD ISO images. This came up in discussions at Usenix between myself and several members of -core. I agree that the project needs a clearer distinction between releases made "by the project", and releases made by commercial third parties, such as Wind River, or the DVDs put out by FreeBSD Services Ltd (or the various distributions put together by other European and Japanese companies). I think that the conclusion is that "the project" should be putting out five ISOs and making them freely available. Four of them would correspond with the four discs that have traditionally made up the commercial CD sets. The fifth one would be a mini-ISO that contains everything needed to do a complete install, but now ports or packages (basically, the existing disc 1 with no third party apps, except, possibly, XFree86). This ISO would only be about 200-250MB in size, and is more useful to the people who only download the ISO to do an install, and use the net for packages/ports. Third parties can then base their commercial distributions around these ISOs. They might simply repackage them (on CD, or DVD). Or they might provide value-add services, such as additional documentation, more packages and so on. The thorny question of "What do they have to include and still call it FreeBSD?" is resolved by saying that any FreeBSD distribution must include, as a minimum, the contents of the "mini" ISO (including sysinstall). Anyone that wants to include an alternative installation routine (open or closed source) can do, as long as sysinstall is still there. Then the FreeBSD docs can continue to refer to sysinstall, and the project doesn't get flack if someone puts together a distribution with a crap installer, because sysinstall will always be there as a fallback. N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- --1SQmhf2mF2YjsYvc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtFdgQACgkQk6gHZCw343X7LgCeNHDC8Mq/dNDZGX+8o3ziUe5n f0gAn2efCSzoSUVJ7xQ5CAGRTGFh2yqS =HrFc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1SQmhf2mF2YjsYvc-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 1:30:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay1.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (www.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [212.111.192.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BC3337B407; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:30:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simon@comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua) Received: from comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (eth0.comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [10.0.1.184]) by relay1.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85A6F2EF06; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:30:29 +0300 (EEST) Received: from pm5149 (pm514-9.comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua [10.18.54.109]) by comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f668PHc02759; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:25:17 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <000901c105ec$61664e80$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> From: "Andrey Simonenko" To: "Eric Melville" Cc: References: <01c201c10468$b6a71e40$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> <20010705143339.A98165@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog. Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:22:14 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Melville Newsgroups: lucky.freebsd.hackers Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:34 AM Subject: Re: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog. > I'm currently working on libdialog, hopefully making the interface a bit > more sensible. I'd like to see what you're up too, hopefully we're not > duplicating efforts. Currently the plan is to commit this stuff in a day > or two. > I did and tested following: 1. DialogX and DialogY by default are equal to -1 and mean center of the screen as it should be, because 0 means left top corner of screen. 2. All boxes in libdialog analyse DialogX and DialogY, box size, and COLS and LINES. And there is problem, then sizes and positions of a box is corrected. 3. Almost completely print_autowrap() function was rewrittent. Now it correctly wraps words (even it works with box with width equal to 2 characters, and can work with width equal to 1 character, but I removed this feature). I a bit changed interface to this function: a line always is wraped if it has \n or \\n, if rawmode == 1, then \\n is outputed as two characters 4. dialog_msgbox() and dialog_gauge() were almost completely rewritten. Now, it's possible to pass empty prompt to these functions. In dialog_gauge() it is possible to pass prompt, which takes some lines. It understands any height of window and prompt is correctly wraped. 5. In dialog(1) I added --dialogx, --dialogy, --gauge, --fselect, --dselect, --noyes. Unfortunatelly --fselect has some bugs in implementation and has to be fixed, --dselect doesn't work propertly at all. Currently I try to fix dialog_inputbox(). Problems with size and position of box already are fixed. Now I want to make line_edit() function more better and fix problems with line size, unsafe strcpy() calls, etc. The problem which took a lot of time is really print_autowrap() function, which can broke ncurses window. So, some of parts in this function were completely removed and now it can work with any width and height of window. Unfortunately strheight() and strwidth() functions incorrectly work and can't tell expected width and height of window (it was before my modifications and it is now with my modifications). I hope that I don't forget something. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 1:35: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-93.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A1C37B405; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:34:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 77E8966C4D; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:34:50 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Frank Pawlak Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Ted Mittelstaedt , wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010706013450.A48685@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20010706020157.026cea40@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010706020157.026cea40@127.0.0.1>; from fpawlak@execpc.com on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:47:21AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:47:21AM -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: > >You're assuming that not having Walnut Creek around is going to be > >good for Linux Central, or good for FreeBSD? I personally wouldn't > >give a bucket of warm spit for Linux Central's well being, but am quite > >worried about the well being of FreeBSD in the near future. >=20 > I agree, the future of FreeBSD does look dim right now. It is being=20 > developed, but not promoted and distributed with any kind of profession= =20 > consistency. And that is a crying shame. Let's not go overboard here. Things can surely be improved, but I wouldn't go so far as to call the future of FreeBSD "dim". > >Yes, all of the above are bad, and they're a sign of an even worse > >problem. FreeBSD has done well for the past 8 years due in large part > >because it an energetic and persuasive "product manager" in the person > >of Jordan K. Hubbard pushing, cajoling, and badgering the CD-ROM > >product through the arduous steps of production. Those who think > >this process happens on auto-pilot are deluded; it has to be baby- > >stepped through every time. >=20 > He was a very unique member of the core team, and had a lot of salesman a= nd=20 > public relations savvy. His departure leaves a gaping hole in the projec= t=20 > as it now stands. However, it is my understanding that he was paid to do= =20 > just those sort of things. It would appear that the work he did out side= =20 > of release coordination would almost require a full time employee of the= =20 > project. And just to be clear, Jordan hasn't left FreeBSD, just changed employers. > What part did any of this play in Jordan's decision to go to Apple? Was = it=20 > that there was no day job at WRS? That is how I read his message of=20 > resignation. WRS still employs a number of FreeBSD developers to work full time on FreeBSD; things aren't as bad as you seem to think, they're just more uncertain right now than some of us would like. Kris --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7RXgqWry0BWjoQKURAsQ/AJ9csiAfglE4g7g4CYsF96xWA9cK3ACgjDis sojka14/sqbunjBTWOAXu5U= =aiWr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Qxx1br4bt0+wmkIi-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 1:38:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A7C37B403 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:38:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=2ce448c87659dc1cb7eaebb66ad0207e) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15IRD7-0000FP-00; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 02:43:37 -0600 Message-ID: <3B457A39.D83A553E@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 02:43:37 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Hodges Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kern/28748: HARP may reject SVCs from certain ATM switches References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Richard Hodges wrote: > > I just discovered an interesting bug in HARP that prevents SVCs > from working on a Xylan switch, and maybe others. The PR is > kern/28748, and it includes a detailed description of the > problem and a simple patch. > > Any takers? I have FreeBSD machines, and access to a Xylan switch (located in a Xylan/Alcatel lab with lots of network testing equipment) but no ATM interface for the FreeBSD machines. If someone would like to loan one, I will test and return it in the same condition I receive it. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 1:42:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (pcwin002.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DC8537B403; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:42:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: (from stijn@localhost) by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f668fqX96902; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:41:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stijn) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:41:52 +0200 From: Stijn Hoop To: Nik Clayton Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Ted Mittelstaedt , Eric Wayte , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD ISOs & redistribution [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral] Message-ID: <20010706104152.C96591@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706092541.C23117@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010706092541.C23117@canyon.nothing-going-on.org>; from nik@freebsd.org on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:25:41AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FWIW, On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:25:41AM +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > I think that the conclusion is that "the project" should be putting out > five ISOs and making them freely available. Four of them would > correspond with the four discs that have traditionally made up the > commercial CD sets. The fifth one would be a mini-ISO that contains > everything needed to do a complete install, but now ports or packages > (basically, the existing disc 1 with no third party apps, except, > possibly, XFree86). This ISO would only be about 200-250MB in size, and > is more useful to the people who only download the ISO to do an install, > and use the net for packages/ports. I *really* like the idea of this small ISO. I don't know if those four ISOs should all be available, but that fifth one is a great idea. I always use the net for installing ports etc., but I like to keep a copy of a -RELEASE disc for reinstalls around. Right now I always download ~400mb too much :( > Third parties can then base their commercial distributions around these > ISOs. They might simply repackage them (on CD, or DVD). Or they might > provide value-add services, such as additional documentation, more packages > and so on. Maybe the infrastructure that's required to make the 4CD set should go into the repo, but not the ISO's themselves? (and yes, I know this is hard, and it's been argued before, re: what if Jordan gets hit by a bus...) If five ISO images are available, people *will* get confused about what is the right one to install FreeBSD, not to mention that people will (try to) download all four discs when they only need one (talk about waste of bandwidth). If the infrastructure is something like 'make release' then interested third parties can easily produce those four discs themselves. The hard part is getting the release process to that point. Or am I mistaking and is this already included? > The thorny question of "What do they have to include and still call it > FreeBSD?" is resolved by saying that any FreeBSD distribution must > include, as a minimum, the contents of the "mini" ISO (including > sysinstall). Anyone that wants to include an alternative installation > routine (open or closed source) can do, as long as sysinstall is still > there. Then the FreeBSD docs can continue to refer to sysinstall, and > the project doesn't get flack if someone puts together a distribution > with a crap installer, because sysinstall will always be there as a > fallback. Like I already stated above, this is a really good idea IMHO. --Stijn -- "I'm not under the alkafluence of inkahol that some thinkle peep I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 1:50:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-93.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A13537B407; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:50:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4DE3066C4D; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:50:03 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Andrey Simonenko Cc: Eric Melville , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Status of dialog(1) and libdialog. Message-ID: <20010706015003.A49027@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <01c201c10468$b6a71e40$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> <20010705143339.A98165@FreeBSD.org> <000901c105ec$61664e80$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <000901c105ec$61664e80$6d36120a@comsys.ntukpi.kiev.ua>; from simon@comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 11:22:14AM +0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Just to throw some more fuel onto the fire, Thomas Dickey maintains his own version of dialog, which is derived from the same parent as the one in our tree, though somewhat divergent by now (mostly on the FreeBSD side from local changes/hacks, I think): ftp://dickey.his.com/dialog/dialog-0.9a-20010527.tgz Kris --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7RXu6Wry0BWjoQKURAvDuAKDeCeXq2OlnPi0+6TVsb5DhiGAMTACeOx99 EnG/NO+A3pMx2q0Kbjp/U2Q= =Tn9l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 2: 4:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 424B337B405; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 02:03:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6693ft76751; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 02:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com Cc: tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 02:03:41 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 104 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Wes Peters Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:55:25 -0600 > Or not, if every other distributor that actually cares to distribute > FreeBSD has dried up and blown away because WRS has been handing out > exclusive access to the "official" FreeBSD ISO images. We already discussed this during the FreeBSD developer's summit at USENIX - I don't think things are as dire as that, nor is "exclusive access" even in the cards for anyone at this point. I'll explain. I've wanted since almost the very beginning to release all the ISO bits since the work which went into creating them often came significantly from the FreeBSD.org community (people like Steve Price and the ports team, thanks guys!) and it's only natural that I'd want all of that to go back. Unfortunately, I was also beholden to folks like Walnut Creek CDROM and BSDi since they were also paying my salary and that of several other FreeBSD folks who were doing much of the other work involved with publishing CDs. They could lay fair claim to at least some of the release engineering work I and others there did, though on the plus side there was also a pretty good relationship between Walnut Creek CDROM and the FreeBSD Project which was clearly of mutual benefit in many ways. Walnut Creek CDROM took FreeBSD to trade shows, paid for various types of contract work to improve things, ran the ftp.freebsd.org FTP site, etc. etc. They were also a small outfit that was approachable and easy to deal with and the sole owner, Bob Bruce, clearly understood the open source community and was a definite fan who "got it" when it came to dealing with folks like us. To give him his just due, he was just as much a pioneer in the open source "industry" as we were and thus a rather long-running partnership was able to grow out of our many mutual interests. Times have clearly changed, however, and Walnut Creek CDROM is long and sadly gone. Whether what's taken its place turns out to be a good match for the FreeBSD project or not still remains very much to be seen, but perhaps that's simply a clear indication that now's as good a time as any to re-evaluate the way we deal with external relationships like this and not simply take continuity for granted. We, for example, need to ask ourselves if there even should be an "official" CD distribution of FreeBSD and, if so, what the selection criteria for such officiality should be. FreeBSD has always been a meritocracy and I see no reason why CDROM vendors should not be selected the same way - put the bits up for grabs and may the vendor with the best customer service and charming bedside manner win. That's assuming, of course, that the changing internet economy and proliferation of high speed access leaves room for anyone to make a business out of selling "straight media" without any significant value-add. All the more reason to take a wait-and-see attitude and simply not endorse any distribution until the sands stop shifting around and we see who's left standing and in what condition. Now that I'm also back to doing release engineering purely on my own time (not that Apple would have any publishing interest in the resulting product in any case), I'm free of any conflict-of-interest constraints and can simply make the whole ball of wax available for FTP. Why would anyone want a ball of wax? I have no idea. It's a figure of speach. Anyway, the following is what we initially came up with at USENIX for FreeBSD 4.4-RELEASE. Nothing is frozen in stone here and it's all subject to user feedback, so let me know what you guys think of this: o FTP release, as usual o 1 "Mini ISO" containing just the ftp release bits and XFree86. Intended audience is just those folks who want a [relatively] small and convenient boot image without any packages or "extras" other than X. o 4 "release ISOs" containing the usual base bits + packages. No Walnut Creek CDROM copyrighted material will be used, of course, though I've been gradually pruning that off over the last few releases anyway since it was largely all old and outdated DOS helper cruft (like view.exe) and I rather doubt that anyone has even noticed its absence. o A full collection of packages and distfiles, not broken up in any way but at least syncronized with the release bits (again, pretty much what we already do today). This is intended for DVD media folks like FreeBSD Services Ltd to come and package up in their own way given the rather different constraints they have on media sizing. Also, when Wes said the following: > Specifically, we need a Product Manager who can shepherd FreeBSD through > the release process, and coordinate with CD-ROM distributor(s) who are I think he perhaps wasn't clear on the fact that I'll still be "shepherding FreeBSD through the release process" and working with many of the very same FreeBSD volunteers to organize the bits, there just won't be any "official tie" to any one distributor. Given WindRiver's recent redirection of orders to BSD Central which started all this fuss, it's not even clear to us that they want to stay in the CDROM business anyway, but if they or anyone else (like the DVD folks) want to "coordinate" with us then they can do so simply by sending us, the volunteer release engineering and QA team, email with their requirements. We'll do as much to oblige them as the project has always done for any FreeBSD customer who's approached it with a reasonable request for increasing FreeBSD's mindshare or ease of use. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 2: 9:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369F637B406; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 02:09:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f66992t76811; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 02:09:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: kris@obsecurity.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@FreeBSD.ORG, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <20010706000043.A47333@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706000043.A47333@xor.obsecurity.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010706020902V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 02:09:02 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 28 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 00:00:43 -0700 > Something that wasn't clear to me from Jordan's message to -announce > is whether he will continue to be the FreeBSD Release Engineer. Yeesh, you'd think I'd announced my funeral by how some people have taken this whole Apple thing. :-) I'm perfectly happy to keep doing the RE thing and so is Apple, so no worries there. I used to do them between the hours of midnight and 4am, back when I worked full-time for Lotus, but thankfully the process is rather more automated now and I can get to bed by 2am or so. Speaking of which... :-) > Concomitant to this is the need to transfer the FreeBSD trademark from > WRS to the FreeBSD Foundation (which should be possible now that the > latter actually has legal standing), which is apparently going to > happen but something we need to make sure *does* happen in the next > month or two. That's actually something the foundation needs to pursue since only its officers have the ability to make the transfer happen. I sincerely hope they do, though I obviously can't do much from the WRS side of things now (not that I necessarily could before either). - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 2:50:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sneakerz.org (sneakerz.org [216.33.66.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE77A37B406; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 02:50:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@sneakerz.org) Received: by sneakerz.org (Postfix, from userid 1092) id 3E1975D010; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 04:50:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 04:50:02 -0500 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Frank Pawlak , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Ted Mittelstaedt , wes@softweyr.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010706045002.B81751@sneakerz.org> References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20010706020157.026cea40@127.0.0.1> <20010706013450.A48685@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20010706013450.A48685@xor.obsecurity.org>; from kris@obsecurity.org on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 01:34:50AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Kris Kennaway [010706 03:35] wrote: > On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:47:21AM -0500, Frank Pawlak wrote: > > > >You're assuming that not having Walnut Creek around is going to be > > >good for Linux Central, or good for FreeBSD? I personally wouldn't > > >give a bucket of warm spit for Linux Central's well being, but am quite > > >worried about the well being of FreeBSD in the near future. > > > > I agree, the future of FreeBSD does look dim right now. It is being > > developed, but not promoted and distributed with any kind of profession > > consistency. And that is a crying shame. > > Let's not go overboard here. Things can surely be improved, but I > wouldn't go so far as to call the future of FreeBSD "dim". You're missing the slashdot troll agenda, if anything these people live to call BSD's future "dim", in fact if Frank hadn't been so late to subscribe, I'm sure his first post would have been labeled as the same. :) -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] Ok, who wrote this damn function called '??'? And why do my programs keep crashing in it? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 3:38:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from proxon.bnc.net (proxon.bnc.net [62.225.99.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17DD337B406 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 03:38:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from noses@proxon.bnc.net) Received: (from noses@localhost) by proxon.bnc.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f66AcXd31977; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:38:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from noses) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:38:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200107061038.f66AcXd31977@proxon.bnc.net> From: Noses To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Organization: Noses' cave In-Reply-To: <20010706020902V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In <20010706020902V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> jkh@osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard) wrote: > Yeesh, you'd think I'd announced my funeral by how some people have > taken this whole Apple thing. :-) If so - where will the funeral be held and will there be Jordan soup for sharing and grokking (although I'd prefer some other people to donate some food)? > I sincerely hope they do, though I obviously can't do much from the WRS > side of things now (not that I necessarily could before either). If they consider FreeBSD to be a product they accquired why should they turn the trade mark over? Noses. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 4:15:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (sentinel.office1.bg [195.24.48.182]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3452637B401 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 04:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 1483 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jul 2001 11:19:53 -0000 Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:19:53 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: Noses Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010706141953.C598@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Noses , hackers@freebsd.org References: <20010706020902V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <200107061038.f66AcXd31977@proxon.bnc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107061038.f66AcXd31977@proxon.bnc.net>; from noses@noses.com on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 12:38:33PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 12:38:33PM +0200, Noses wrote: > In <20010706020902V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> jkh@osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard) wrote: > > Yeesh, you'd think I'd announced my funeral by how some people have > > taken this whole Apple thing. :-) > > If so - where will the funeral be held and will there be Jordan soup for > sharing and grokking (although I'd prefer some other people to donate some > food)? > > > I sincerely hope they do, though I obviously can't do much from the WRS > > side of things now (not that I necessarily could before either). > > If they consider FreeBSD to be a product they accquired why should they turn > the trade mark over? I don't think that they think that they acquired FreeBSD. At least, their announcements seemed to specifically deny any such fears. G'luck, Peter -- This sentence is false. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 4:42:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 722DA37B412; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 04:41:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f66Bfol41399; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 04:41:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Jordan Hubbard" , , Cc: , Subject: RE: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 04:41:47 -0700 Message-ID: <004901c10610$a37ff540$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Jordan Hubbard > >Times have clearly changed, however, and Walnut Creek CDROM is long >and sadly gone. Jordan, I agree with most of what you say except for this. Fortunately as I don't work for WC, BSDi, Apple, Microsoft or any of the BSD crew I can throw some needed stones here. Since the core team seems to not know what to do with me, throwing the stones at them isn't going to make much difference now, and I'm used to getting in trouble anyway. I can't sit back anymore and stand to see this gobbledygook thrown around and see the FreeBSD movement harmed by it. Understand I appreciate everything you guys do (and the book plug at USENIX didn't go unnoticed either) but this is very, very, very wrong. I have always disliked senseless destruction - and now in hindsight it appears that the destruction of WC due to this BSD merger mania is both senseles and inadvertant. No matter how much you sugarcoat it - BSDi screwed over FreeBSD by acquiring Walnut Creek. You all have to face that even though you may have all worked for them and been the ones to make the mistake. Everyone makes mistakes and we can all forgive for them - but it's unforgivable to have the culprits continue to pretend that no mistakes were made. I've yet to read of a single apology from the folks that started all this - all I've seen are apologies from WindRiver who had nothing to do with it. I SEE NOTHING to prove that the conditions that created WC's involvement don't exist for another CDROM vendor to take it's place. Are you saying that in hindsight the symbiosis beween WC and The FreeBSD Project was bad? And that we are better off now? With what?!?! So far all I hear is a bunch of unsatisfied CDROM customers justly complaining, a financial pipeline to the Project collapsing, in short a mismanagement of the entire FreeBSD CD distribution that is unreal. Nobody from BSDi has EVER given any business justification for the BSDi acquisition of Walnut Creek. If you look past all the "we are going out to do great things in the future" press release crap - there's nothing. Nothing financially justifying that is. Was WC financially failing? If so why would BSDi take on more debt, that is completely stupid. Plenty of other CD distributors WERN'T failing and the CD distribution model is going great guns today. If WC started failing due to mismanagement - then let them die. Another vendor would take over quick enough. It seems to me that far from failing, WC was the one making the money and for some hidden political machinations that nobody in the know has revealed that WC agreed to allow itself to be raped in order to prop up BSDi. Either that or it was the old bugaboo of BSDi seeing it's market being eroded by FreeBSD and so tried playing the old "Buy the competitor then kill their product distribution channel" game. Then, the combined company fell on it's face and WindRiver came in and picked up the pieces at a firesale and is dumping the bits they don't want - and what's left over of WC and it's ordering process is a bit that they don't want. Same old story of software acquisitions I've seen it plenty of times before in commercial software and now it's happening to us - or rather our CD distributor that was paying our way and the way of our servers. I read once that the main FreeBSD distribution server was on 3 DS3's - well that kind of bandwidth requires about $20,000 a month in my world - and is WindRiver going to support that expense when the CD distribution business has been ruined? Yeah right - tell me another story. Are you going to say that you would really think it better if the main FreeBSD server was throttled down to a T1 access and to get the ISO image that all users are going to have to screw with all of the different mirrors - and this at the same time that the CDROM business is in the toilet so that the only way to GET the new release in a timely manner is by FTP? Sounds great in the ivory tower - but explain this again to the admin that's frantically trying to get access to a mirror server at 10:00pm at night to get a file so he can bring back up his FreeBSD server that must be back in production tomorrow. Do you really think that people would prefer to FTP the distribution when they can pick up the phone, make an 800 call and have it next-day shipped to them? And 3/4 of the time they just expense it to their company so they pay nothing anyway? Now your talking about FIVE ISO's, think of all the users that have problems getting even ONE down. Not everyone out here has fast DSL and Cable - in fact the majority don't. I find it asinine that WindRiver is condemming the so-called messed up WC ordering mechanism - this is a mechanism that shipped a lot more product than they are doing now, in it's heyday. If that business was as screwed up as WindRiver is making it out to be then BSDi was run by morons when they bought WC and we know that's not true. Somebody is lying here and it seems obvious that the current owners who have seemed to make it clear they don't want the CD pressing business are more likely to be the liars than the BSDI people that said WC was such a good acquisition last year. > >FreeBSD has always been a meritocracy and I see no reason why CDROM >vendors should not be selected the same way - put the bits up for >grabs and may the vendor with the best customer service and charming >bedside manner win. Respectfully - this is rubbish. FreeBSD simply does not currently have the shipping volume for _many_ CD distributors to all come in and grab pieces of the pie and make any money doing so. After the 4.3 cd distribution fiasco it will have even less. WE ARE NOT LINUX!!!! When WC was active there was the "snob" distribution - WC's - and the "bottom feeders" distribution - CheapBytes. Both were symbiotic and in my opinion completely filled the market. More importantly, both obviously made money. Now we have a setup where the snob distributor has been destroyed and who knows what is happening over at CheapBytes - but I fervently hope that they go full blast into production and suck up all the customers that are now out there swinging in the wind. And if CheapBytes doesen't do it then by God let Linux Central do it - I could care less if they answer the phone "Linux Elvira Mistress Of The Night - May I Take Your Linux Order" as long as the FreeBSD distribution makes them money. Then maybe in a few years and after a few more distributions we will get back to the format of a "snob" distributor and a "bottom feeder" distributor - a model that worked very well until BSDi came in and busted everything up. >That's assuming, of course, that the changing >internet economy and proliferation of high speed access leaves room >for anyone to make a business out of selling "straight media" without >any significant value-add. The only change I've seen in the Internet economy is people quitting funding speculative projects and concentrating on profit making - which is what they should have been doing all along. Our previous distribution mechanism of WC met the profit making criteria and it's rediculous to want to move it now into the speculative projects model. I do agree with you on one thing though - if we do end up with a model of: "CDROM vendors should be selected the same way - put the bits up for grabs and may the vendor with the best customer service and charming bedside manner win." and this creates a plethora of different CD vendors all hawking FreeBSD distributions, that it will be very questionable that: "anyone can make a business out of selling "straight media" without any significant value-add." So, are you ready for $100-per-box FreeBSD distros? Do you think the FreeBSD userbase is? Boy, now THAT's sure an advance for the customer! >All the more reason to take a wait-and-see >attitude and simply not endorse any distribution until the sands stop >shifting around and we see who's left standing and in what condition. > In which case I can tell you what is going to happen - a bunch of CD vendors are going to climb in and start selling FreeBSD CD's, each hoping to eventually be "blessed" by the core team - that won't happen because you all will be taking a wait and see attitude - and then none of the vendors are going to make any money and they are all going to go away completely disgusted and then we won't have ANY FreeBSD cdrom vendors. Don't you see that your about ready to pull the trigger on a shotgun pointing at the goose laying the golden eggs? > >Anyway, the following is what we initially came up with at USENIX for >FreeBSD 4.4-RELEASE. Nothing is frozen in stone here and it's all >subject to user feedback, so let me know what you guys think of this: > >many of the very same FreeBSD volunteers to organize the bits, there >just won't be any "official tie" to any one distributor. Given BOOM - there went the shotgun - you just told all CD vendors to Fuck Off and Die And Never Come Back. The goose is dead. Quit farting around - why are you tiptoeing around WindRiver? They are yelling from the mountaintops "WE DON'T WANT THE CD DISTRIBUTION BUSINESS FOR FREEBSD TAKE IT AWAY PLEASE NOW!!!" They won't be insulted if you tell them they aren't the Official CDROM Pressors For FreeBSD anymore - they will jump for joy! >WindRiver's recent redirection of orders to BSD Central which started >all this fuss, No - BSDi's acquisition of WC that started all this fuss. WindRiver's doings is just the end of a game that was started by BSDi. >it's not even clear to us that they want to stay in the >CDROM business anyway, Trust me THEY DON'T!!! If they did they would have moved heaven and earth to service all their customers and fulfilled orders instead of this schlocky excuse even if it took the President of WindRiver himself driving to the homes of the CD customers to hand-deliver the CD's. As it is the WindRiver president didn't even _sign_ the apology for not shipping the CD's! WindRiver wants to go out there and take the proprietary BSD code and make a shitpile of money in the embedded systems market. Fine, Great, More Power Too Them. I'm damn happy about it. I don't expect them to keep the CD distribution business going if they don't want it. LET THEM GO! But The FreeBSD Project is sticking it's head where the sun don't shine to even hint that WindRiver wants the distribution business. What's incumbent on the Project now is to make some hard choices and select 2 or at most 3 CDROM vendors who clearly DON'T step on each other's markets, and who clearly want to have the business, and designate them "Blessed" and let the CD distributors alone to repair all the damage done by this last fiasco. Then in a year or so when the users trust has been regained and the CD and toys shipping volumes are back to normal, why then if other CD vendors want in on the pie then the core can bless them too. If you try to do it your way your going to end up pissing off ALL the CD vendors and then we are going to be really, totally fucked. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 5:44:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay.wplus.net (relay.wplus.net [195.131.52.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BADE37B40B for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 05:44:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ricsLtd@hotmail.com) Received: from relay1.wplus.net (smtp.wplus.net [195.131.52.143]) by relay.wplus.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wplus.2) with ESMTP id QAA41472 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:44:47 +0400 (MSD) From: ricsLtd@hotmail.com X-Real-To: Received: from Olga (ip94-78.dialup.wplus.net [195.131.94.78]) by relay1.wplus.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wplus.2) with SMTP id QAA72251 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:44:46 +0400 (MSD) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:44:46 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <200107061244.QAA72251@relay1.wplus.net> To: X-Mailer: PersMail 3.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1251 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Looking for the contract or permanent IT staff? We can recruit Russian IT professionals for you? Have a look at www.ricsltd.co.uk. We have a lot to offer! You will be impressed with our services, low fees as well as quality of programmers. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us: info@ricsltd.co.uk Regards, Andrei Nikonorov ________________________________ Sent by "PersMail 3.1" (freeware) ÇÀÎ "ÀÑÓ-Èìïóëüñ": Áèçíåñ-ñïðàâî÷íèêè è áàçû äàííûõ "Ýëåêòðîííàÿ áèáëèîòåêà õóäîæåñòâåííîé ëèòåðàòóðû" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 6:22:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nwlynx.network-lynx.net (nwlynx.network-lynx.net [63.122.185.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 624A137B403; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 06:22:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Received: from Silver-Lynx.com (doze-1.network-lynx.net [63.122.185.106]) by nwlynx.network-lynx.net (8.11.1/8.9.3/Who.Cares) with ESMTP id f66DMUK74257; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 07:22:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Message-ID: <3B45BB7C.A50497E6@Silver-Lynx.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 07:22:04 -0600 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kris Kennaway Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Eric, you were right! References: <3B44C80C.FF06D16C@Silver-Lynx.com> <20010706013656.B48685@xor.obsecurity.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kris Kennaway wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 02:03:24PM -0600, Don Wilde wrote: > > Looks like Eric Wayte was right in his premonition about Wind River > > screwing us over. Their freebsdmall website is now a link to something > > called BSD Central, and their phone box says 'Welcome to Linux > > Central'.... and of course nobody's in in Customer Service. > > > > I ordered a BSD Desktop direct from freebsdmall.com -- at full list -- > > because their (old) site claimed it would come with 4.3 CDs. Guess who's > > got another obsolete set of 4.1 CDs sitting on his hands? :-( > > I think people need to think twice before condemning WRS as Satan's > newest earth-bound franchisee; they've just bought a whole bunch of > assets and are no doubt still trying to figure out just what to do > with them. Polite feedback to the relevant people about what they > could do better may well work wonders :-) > Hi, Kris - Somebody else's comment relating WR to M$ is not totally off base. They've made their money sucking up our tax dollars through the military budget. I did send them a polite(r) message when I finally got to a WRS e-mail. They took over in April, and it's now July. Given that things used to work, I have little patience with people who can't _keep_ basic things working. They sure got their logos up on the site in a hurry! As for the future being dim, I agree with you. Not a chance! This is exactly the kind of situation FBSD needs to wean itself finally from dependence on any one company, as the response to Wes Peters' thread is showing. As for Jordan's departure to Apple, I think people need to remember that _he_ was the one who announce@'d the Release Schedule. Even if he isn't "it" any more, it doesn't sound like he will be out of the picture. I think it is very important that the Coordinator NOT be a Wind River employee, as tempting as that may be for short-term stability. The new Foundation sounds like the right mechanism at just the right nick of time. It is just as important to make sure that WR doesn't get the baby by fiat as it is that we don't let it go down the drain. -- Don Wilde http://www.Silver-Lynx.com Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 6:47:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.javanet.com (mail1.javanet.com [205.219.162.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18BB137B405 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 06:47:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kaworu@sektor7.ath.cx) Received: from wintermute.sekt7 (209-6-248-16.c3-0.lex-ubr1.sbo-lex.ma.cable.rcn.com [209.6.248.16]) by mail1.javanet.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA26189 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107061348.JAA26189@mail1.javanet.com> From: Evan Sarmiento To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: LIST_NEXT() Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I'm writing a kernel module, and it involves traversing the proc list searching for the right structure, however, when I use SLIST_NEXT(p, p_list) in the program, I get a warning when I compile it: warning: statement with mo effect What am I doing wrong? I've read the manpages on queue and looked at the proc structure. Here's the code: int prfw_setflags(p, uap) struct proc *p; struct prfw_setflags_args *uap; { ... if (uap->id) { while (uap->id != p->p_pid) LIST_NEXT(p, p_list); } ... } Thanks a lot. Evan Sarmiento To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 6:56:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.mx.voyager.net (mail1.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1787537B401 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 06:56:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mhagerty@voyager.net) Received: from thunderbird.voyager.net (216-93-124-123.mdmmi.voyager.net [216.93.124.123]) by mail1.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f66Dutm15529 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010706095736.0233de30@pop.voyager.net> X-Sender: mhagerty@pop.voyager.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:58:00 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Matthew Hagerty Subject: Proper use of select() parameter nfds? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, I am going over the use of select() for a server I'm writing and I *thought* I understood the man page's description for the use of the first parameter, nfds. From MAN: The first nfds descriptors are checked in each set; i.e., the descriptors from 0 through nfds-1 in the descriptor sets are examined. I take this to mean that each descriptor set contains n descriptors and I am interested in examining the first nfds descriptors referenced in my sets. I also understood it to mean that nfds has absolutely nothing to do with the actual *value* of a descriptor, i.e. the value returned by fopen(), socket(), etc.. Is this correct thinking? What got me second-guessing myself was a use of select() that seems to indicate that you have to make sure nfds is larger than the value of the largest descriptor you want checked. Here is the select() from the questionable code (I can provide the whole function if necessary, it's not very big): if (select(conn->sock + 1, &input_mask, &output_mask, &except_mask, (struct timeval *) NULL) < 0) Is this improper use? conn->sock is set like this: /* Open a socket */ if ((conn->sock = socket(family, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) < 0) Any clarification on how nfds should be set would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Matthew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 7:35:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 23B1137B403 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 07:35:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 924 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jul 2001 14:40:19 -0000 Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:40:19 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: Evan Sarmiento Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LIST_NEXT() Message-ID: <20010706174019.B700@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Evan Sarmiento , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <200107061348.JAA26189@mail1.javanet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107061348.JAA26189@mail1.javanet.com>; from kaworu@sektor7.ath.cx on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:48:26AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:48:26AM -0400, Evan Sarmiento wrote: > Hello, > > I'm writing a kernel module, and it involves traversing the proc list searching for the right structure, > however, when I use SLIST_NEXT(p, p_list) in the program, I get a warning when I compile it: > > warning: statement with mo effect > > What am I doing wrong? I've read the manpages on queue and looked at the proc structure. > > Here's the code: > int > prfw_setflags(p, uap) > struct proc *p; > struct prfw_setflags_args *uap; > { > ... > if (uap->id) { > while (uap->id != p->p_pid) > LIST_NEXT(p, p_list); > } Well, first, you're using LIST_NEXT(), not SLIST_NEXT() :) Second, none of the *_NEXT() queue.h macros modify their parameters; they just return a pointer to the next element. So, just try: p = LIST_NEXT(p, p_list); ..and you'll be just fine. G'luck, Peter -- If I were you, who would be reading this sentence? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 7:39: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 601BD37B401 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 07:39:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie) Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 6 Jul 2001 15:39:02 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:39:02 +0100 From: David Malone To: Matthew Hagerty Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Proper use of select() parameter nfds? Message-ID: <20010706153902.A48447@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010706095736.0233de30@pop.voyager.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010706095736.0233de30@pop.voyager.net>; from mhagerty@voyager.net on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:58:00AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:58:00AM -0400, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > I take this to mean that each descriptor set contains n descriptors and I > am interested in examining the first nfds descriptors referenced in my > sets. I also understood it to mean that nfds has absolutely nothing to do > with the actual *value* of a descriptor, If you are interested in selecting on discriptors 0, 5, 9 and 13 then nfds should be 14. David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 7:39:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B3AD37B401 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 07:39:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 947 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jul 2001 14:44:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:44:03 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: Matthew Hagerty Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Proper use of select() parameter nfds? Message-ID: <20010706174403.C700@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Matthew Hagerty , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010706095736.0233de30@pop.voyager.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010706095736.0233de30@pop.voyager.net>; from mhagerty@voyager.net on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:58:00AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:58:00AM -0400, Matthew Hagerty wrote: > Greetings, > > I am going over the use of select() for a server I'm writing and I > *thought* I understood the man page's description for the use of the first > parameter, nfds. > > From MAN: > > The first nfds descriptors are checked in each set; i.e., the descriptors > from 0 through nfds-1 in the descriptor sets are examined. > > > I take this to mean that each descriptor set contains n descriptors and I > am interested in examining the first nfds descriptors referenced in my > sets. I also understood it to mean that nfds has absolutely nothing to do > with the actual *value* of a descriptor, i.e. the value returned by > fopen(), socket(), etc.. Is this correct thinking? What got me > second-guessing myself was a use of select() that seems to indicate that > you have to make sure nfds is larger than the value of the largest > descriptor you want checked. Here is the select() from the questionable > code (I can provide the whole function if necessary, it's not very big): > > if (select(conn->sock + 1, &input_mask, &output_mask, &except_mask, > (struct timeval *) NULL) < 0) Actually, this is the correct use. nfds should be larger than the value of the largest fd in the set, no matter how many fd's there are. > Is this improper use? conn->sock is set like this: > > /* Open a socket */ > if ((conn->sock = socket(family, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) < 0) > > > Any clarification on how nfds should be set would be greatly appreciated. Maybe it would help if you thought of an fd set as of a bit array, with a '1' bit for each fd "in" the set, and a '0' for each fd not "in" the set. The nfds argument tells select(2) how far into the bit array to check for set bits. If you want to check fd's 0, 1 and 5, then nfds should be at least 6. For more information, I would suggest reading W. Richard Stevens' book "Unix Network Programming", vol. 1. G'luck, Peter -- You have, of course, just begun reading the sentence that you have just finished reading. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 7:51:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bugz.infotecs.ru (bugz.infotecs.ru [195.210.139.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 586DE37B407 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 07:51:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vel@bugz.infotecs.ru) Received: (from root@localhost) by bugz.infotecs.ru (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f66F56P01143; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 19:05:06 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from vel) From: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Message-Id: <200107061505.f66F56P01143@bugz.infotecs.ru> Subject: Re: LIST_NEXT() In-Reply-To: <200107061348.JAA26189@mail1.javanet.com> "from Evan Sarmiento at Jul 6, 2001 09:48:26 am" To: Evan Sarmiento Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 19:05:06 +0400 (MSD) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hello, > > I'm writing a kernel module, and it involves traversing the proc list searching for the right structure, > however, when I use SLIST_NEXT(p, p_list) in the program, I get a warning when I compile it: > > warning: statement with mo effect > > What am I doing wrong? I've read the manpages on queue and looked at the proc structure. > > Here's the code: > int > prfw_setflags(p, uap) > struct proc *p; > struct prfw_setflags_args *uap; > { > ... > if (uap->id) { > while (uap->id != p->p_pid) > LIST_NEXT(p, p_list); > } > > ... > } The proper way would be: p = LIST_NEXT(p, p_list); Regards, Eugene To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 8: 0:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bugz.infotecs.ru (bugz.infotecs.ru [195.210.139.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52FB237B406 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:00:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vel@bugz.infotecs.ru) Received: (from root@localhost) by bugz.infotecs.ru (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f66FEWo01179; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 19:14:32 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from vel) From: "Eugene L. Vorokov" Message-Id: <200107061514.f66FEWo01179@bugz.infotecs.ru> Subject: Re: kernel panic when trying to use init's address space In-Reply-To: <20010705195825.E8794@cicely20.cicely.de> "from Bernd Walter at Jul 5, 2001 07:58:25 pm" To: Bernd Walter Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 19:14:32 +0400 (MSD) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL82 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 02:59:17PM +0200, Bernd Walter wrote: > > You are mmaping into the address space for the process you use the > > struct proc from. > > As long as it's this programm that is curproc everything is fine. Okay, I understand what the problem is. But what if I still want to simulate the syscall from the process which is not current ? Is it difficult to make kernel think that it's current process, how should it be done ? (Yes, I know this may look dumb, but still) Regards, Eugene To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 8:34:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB1037B405; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:34:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 7012515; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660EE49A15; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:34:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Or not, if every other distributor that actually cares to distribute > > FreeBSD has dried up and blown away because WRS has been handing out > > exclusive access to the "official" FreeBSD ISO images. Daemon News is still very interested in becoming the official FreeBSD CD vendor. I think a qualification of being an official vendor is donating a portion back to the project. The FreeBSD foundation needs to be funded. Chris Coleman Editor in Chief Daemon News E-Zine http://www.daemonnews.org Print Magazine http://magazine.daemonnews.org Open Packages http://www.openpackages.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 9:56:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE72337B405; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:56:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f66GtCt78659; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:55:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: chrisc@vmunix.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: References: <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010706095512T.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 09:55:12 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 15 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Chris Coleman Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:34:08 -0400 (EDT) > Daemon News is still very interested in becoming the official FreeBSD CD > vendor. I think a qualification of being an official vendor is donating a > portion back to the project. The FreeBSD foundation needs to be funded. I think that's perhaps _a_ qualification, but from the end-user perspective (and that's really what this thread is essentially about) I think good customer service will count for a lot more. :) Only time will tell about that, so I guess the question is whether or not Daemon News wants to start replicating its own CDs come 4.4? - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 10:29:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nwlynx.network-lynx.net (nwlynx.network-lynx.net [63.122.185.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51A9837B405; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:29:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Received: from Silver-Lynx.com (doze-1.network-lynx.net [63.122.185.106]) by nwlynx.network-lynx.net (8.11.1/8.9.3/Who.Cares) with ESMTP id f66HTNK10155; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:29:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Message-ID: <3B45F559.71DE08E8@Silver-Lynx.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:28:57 -0600 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: chrisc@vmunix.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010706095512T.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > From: Chris Coleman > > > Daemon News is still very interested in becoming the official FreeBSD CD > > vendor. I think a qualification of being an official vendor is donating a > > portion back to the project. The FreeBSD foundation needs to be funded. > > I think that's perhaps _a_ qualification, but from the end-user > perspective (and that's really what this thread is essentially about) > I think good customer service will count for a lot more. :) Only time > will tell about that, so I guess the question is whether or not Daemon > News wants to start replicating its own CDs come 4.4? > Given the lack of response from either WR or BSDCentral to my complaint about the FreeBSD Desktop I just received, I think it is critical that we establish an independent CD channel outside of WR's control. I have always had great service when I (and people I have recommended it to) have bought from DNMall. Bluntly, much better service than WC, even before all these mergers/buyouts. My subscriptions were trashed several times and it was always my fault even when it wasn't. I don't think we should ever have "the" official FreeBSD CD vendor, but I support Chris as someone separate from WR. Of course, now that O'Reilly's touting him as their 'open source editor', I worry about the little penguin beak his nose is turning into.... ;-) -- Don Wilde http://www.Silver-Lynx.com Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 10:30:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A8D37B401; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:30:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.46.72]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA3C78; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:37:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3B45F5C2.1D2F12CA@acuson.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:30:42 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan Hubbard wrote: > o 4 "release ISOs" containing the usual base bits + packages. No > Walnut Creek CDROM copyrighted material will be used, of course, > though I've been gradually pruning that off over the last few > releases anyway since it was largely all old and outdated DOS helper > cruft (like view.exe) and I rather doubt that anyone has even > noticed its absence. Some people at least will notice. From a post by S. Lafredo to -questions a mere one week ago... "In handbook section 2.2.1.2 Before Installing from CDROM, there is a reference to a install.bat and view.exe. I cannot find either of these on the CD or the internet? Where do I obtain the install.bat and view.exe file, so that I can put them on my MS-DOS boot floppy and continue the installation?" David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 11:56: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4554537B409 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:55:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bsdguru@aol.com) Received: from Bsdguru@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id n.10c.24f4dbf (3965) for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:55:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Bsdguru@aol.com Message-ID: <10c.24f4dbf.287763bb@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:55:55 EDT Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message dated 07/06/2001 7:42:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tedm@toybox.placo.com writes: > Nobody from BSDi has EVER given any business justification for the BSDi > acquisition of Walnut Creek. If you look past all the "we are going out > to do great things in the future" press release crap - there's nothing. > Nothing financially justifying that is. > > Was WC financially failing? If so why would BSDi take on more debt, that is > completely stupid. Plenty of other CD distributors WERN'T failing and the > CD distribution model is going great guns today. If WC started failing due > to mismanagement - then let them die. Another vendor would take over quick > enough. > Nothing BSDi ever did made any sense, so why does this suprise you? The fact that BSDi didnt nothing positive for FreeBSD doesnt surprise me at all. Bryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 12:11:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E60937B409; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:11:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 90A8315; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A9B49A15; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:11:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Don Wilde Cc: Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B45F559.71DE08E8@Silver-Lynx.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Given the lack of response from either WR or BSDCentral to my complaint > about the FreeBSD Desktop I just received, I think it is critical that > we establish an independent CD channel outside of WR's control. I have > always had great service when I (and people I have recommended it to) > have bought from DNMall. Bluntly, much better service than WC, even > before all these mergers/buyouts. My subscriptions were trashed several > times and it was always my fault even when it wasn't. > > I don't think we should ever have "the" official FreeBSD CD vendor, but > I support Chris as someone separate from WR. Of course, now that > O'Reilly's touting him as their 'open source editor', I worry about the > little penguin beak his nose is turning into.... ;-) Penguin beak? And I keep taking flack for pushing BSD in the Linux arena. :-) I have to finalize some arrangements, but we definately want to produce FreeBSD CDs starting with 4.4 We already offer subscription pricing, so we just need everyone to move their subscriptions over... I'll be making an official announcement soon. -Chris > -- > Don Wilde http://www.Silver-Lynx.com > Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects > 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 > 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 12:18: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB57437B406; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f66JHWt79190; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:17:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: djohnson@acuson.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B45F5C2.1D2F12CA@acuson.com> References: <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B45F5C2.1D2F12CA@acuson.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010706121732A.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 12:17:32 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 28 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, those utilities are gone so we probably need to simply update the documentation and move on. :) - jordan From: David Johnson Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:30:42 -0700 > Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > > o 4 "release ISOs" containing the usual base bits + packages. No > > Walnut Creek CDROM copyrighted material will be used, of course, > > though I've been gradually pruning that off over the last few > > releases anyway since it was largely all old and outdated DOS helper > > cruft (like view.exe) and I rather doubt that anyone has even > > noticed its absence. > > Some people at least will notice. From a post by S. Lafredo to > -questions a mere one week ago... > > "In handbook section 2.2.1.2 Before Installing from CDROM, there is a > reference to a install.bat and view.exe. I cannot find either of these > on the CD or the internet? Where do I obtain the install.bat and > view.exe file, so that I can put them on my MS-DOS boot floppy and > continue the installation?" > > David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 12:20: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC45137B405; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:19:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f66JGlt79184; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:16:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: Don@Silver-Lynx.com Cc: chrisc@vmunix.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B45F559.71DE08E8@Silver-Lynx.com> References: <20010706095512T.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B45F559.71DE08E8@Silver-Lynx.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010706121647H.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 12:16:47 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 21 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Don Wilde Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:28:57 -0600 > Given the lack of response from either WR or BSDCentral to my complaint > about the FreeBSD Desktop I just received, I think it is critical that > we establish an independent CD channel outside of WR's control. I have I don't think that anyone's debating that point at all. I would like to have _multiple_ channels of CDROM distribution, however, including companies in different countries and perhaps with different types of media (like DVD) or product objectives, like a desktop or server edition. As we learned with ftp.freesoftware.com, having a single point of failure leaves you swinging in the wind when unforseen circumstances pop up and just as we reacted to the FTP server going down by going to a multi-tiered, more fault tolerant model, so should we encourage multiple vendors. The days of giving people preferential treatment probably ended with Walnut Creek CDROM, we just hadn't really faced the fact until this happened. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 12:42: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f17.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 653DA37B406 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:41:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from the_srinivas@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:41:59 -0700 Received: from 66.2.116.10 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 19:41:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.2.116.10] From: "Srinivas Dharmasanam" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: register new device driver Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 12:41:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2001 19:41:59.0303 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8A61970:01C10653] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I used the /usr/share/examples/make_device_driver.sh to create a device driver in /sys/i386/isa and included my additions in the skeleton provided. Now, I'm trying to call the mmap function with the "filed" argument equal to that corresponding to this new device. Can you please let me know what else needs to be done to register this device in the kernel. Thanks, -Sri _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 12:54: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (c421509-a.pinol1.sfba.home.com [24.7.86.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D926237B406 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:53:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org (InterJet.elischer.org [192.168.1.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA34061; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:38:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Julian Elischer To: Srinivas Dharmasanam Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: register new device driver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG what version of FreeBSD are you doing this on? (it makes a difference) On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Srinivas Dharmasanam wrote: > Hi, > I used the /usr/share/examples/make_device_driver.sh to create a device > driver in /sys/i386/isa and included my additions in the skeleton provided. > > Now, I'm trying to call the mmap function with the "filed" argument equal to > that corresponding to this new device. > > Can you please let me know what else needs to be done to register this > device in the kernel. > > Thanks, > -Sri > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 13: 0:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [216.33.66.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79FEF37B407 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:00:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1098) id 7357C81D05; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:00:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:00:19 -0500 From: Bill Fumerola To: Bsdguru@aol.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010706150019.U47870@elvis.mu.org> References: <10c.24f4dbf.287763bb@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <10c.24f4dbf.287763bb@aol.com>; from Bsdguru@aol.com on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:55:55PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-FEARSOME-20010617 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:55:55PM -0400, Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: > Nothing BSDi ever did made any sense, so why does this suprise you? The fact > that BSDi didnt nothing positive for FreeBSD doesnt surprise me at all. Luckily, with this post to the mailing list you can join the ranks of doing nothing positive for the project. Congrats! In case you didn't know (which you probably don't, being an ignorant flamebait poster and all), BSDi: employed many talented developers, funded or subsidized various *BSD support events, donated hardware for *.FreeBSD.org, sent numerous volunteer developers to conferences at zero or low cost, and distributed quite a bit of hardware to developers who otherwise wouldn't have proper test environments. Thats just to name a few things... WRS still is doing many of the things that WCCDROM/BSDi did for the project and the ones that they've stopped doing should simply look like a good opportunity to others who want to step up in the community. -- Bill Fumerola / billf@FreeBSD.org ps. even ignoring the improper punctuation, "didnt nothing positive" is improper English, in the future you might want to use a phrase like "did not do anything positive" or "did nothing positive". hope this helps. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 13: 7: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 260DA37B401; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:06:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f66K6Tt79365; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: tedm@toybox.placo.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <004901c10610$a37ff540$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> References: <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <004901c10610$a37ff540$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010706130629R.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:06:29 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 110 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" Subject: RE: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 04:41:47 -0700 > >Times have clearly changed, however, and Walnut Creek CDROM is long > >and sadly gone. > > Jordan, I agree with most of what you say except for this. You disagree with me that Walnut Creek CDROM is gone? How odd. Well, if you'd like to confirm this with Bob Bruce, be my guest! It's finished, toast, pushing up daisies, gone to its reward, shuffled off it mortal coil, met its maker. This is an ex-CDROM company! > Since the core team seems to not know what to do with me, throwing > the stones at them isn't going to make much difference now, and I'm > used to getting in trouble anyway. Erm, why would you throw stones at the core team over this in any case? You think they had anything to do with it? Ted... I can only suggest that you increase the medication - this is a seriously pointless rant you're engaging in here and I honestly don't see the aim of it. > I have always disliked senseless destruction - and now in hindsight it > appears that the destruction of WC due to this BSD merger mania is > both senseles and inadvertant. No matter how much you sugarcoat it - > BSDi screwed over FreeBSD by acquiring Walnut Creek. You all have to face > that even though you may have all worked for them and been the ones to > make the mistake. I think you're suffering from a serious lack of knowledge at what went on behind the scenes, to say nothing of business in general, if you somehow think that everybody went into the merger with the aim of killing off Walnut Creek CDROM. WC was already in the process of slow collapse when the merger took place because whether you're willing to admit it to yourself or not, THE CDROM PUBLISHING BUSINESS SUCKS. Take a look at the number of CDROM vendors in the market place 2 years ago and compare it to the number you see today. Go to CompUSA or Fry's and check out how many Linux distributions you even see on the shelves now. We could all see the writing on the wall even then, and it was for the best of reasons that we decided to combine what were at the time the two most visible "BSD vendors" in an effort to stop competing with one another and try to formulate some sort of hybrid strategy that would let both companies survive by getting into areas like services and custom engineering as well as publishing. Did we succeed? No, obviously not. Did a lot of people suffer a lot more than you or FreeBSD did in the process? Absolutely yes. We put a lot of work into trying to make it fly and when it hit the ground, it was a great disappointment to many people. There are no "culprits" here, at least not on the Walnut Creek CDROM side, just some folks trying to make the best of a bad situation. If you want to blame BSDi's upper management then be my guest, but they won't know or really care much about that so I don't see what you'd hope to accomplish. > I SEE NOTHING to prove that the conditions that created WC's involvement > don't exist for another CDROM vendor to take it's place. Feel free! You want to learn about the CDROM publishing business and have the moral authority to be this sanctimonious? Go create a distribution and hawk it on the street corner. My posting made it more than clear that this sort of thing will be encouraged and you're perfectly welcome to show how this business model can be profitably sustained. > Was WC financially failing? If so why would BSDi take on more debt, that is > completely stupid. There were a lot of things done in the late 90's which matched that description. We started the merger before the bubble burst and there was VC money raining from the sky. Walnut Creek CDROM had never shown itself to be adept at dealing with VCs and the BSDi top management folks claimed they could get money simply by walking outside and opening an umbrella, so we grasped at that particular straw because our other options looked even more bleak. Of course, the bubble did burst and the VC money we would have used to make up various shortfalls never materialized, but if you want to indict us for being stupid then you should also point your fingers in a lot of other directions because people a lot smarter than we were also bet (and lost) on the same market horse. > Plenty of other CD distributors WERN'T failing and the > CD distribution model is going great guns today. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. > Do you really think that people would prefer to FTP the distribution > when they can pick up the phone, make an 800 call and have it > next-day shipped to them? And 3/4 of the time they just expense it > to their company so they pay nothing anyway? Now your talking about > FIVE ISO's, think of all the users that have problems getting even > ONE down. Not everyone out here has fast DSL and Cable - in fact > the majority don't. FINE. As I keep saying, put your money where your mouth all too visibly is and do something about it if you think it's so easy to set up this kind of infrastructure and run it properly. Your entire rant is full of half-baked assertions and a buttload of assumptions which are frankly as false as Tammy Faye Bakker's eyelashes. If I were less polite I'd make even more references to the scatological percentage of your various internal organs, but I won't go there. You have already been inflammatory enough in your own posting and, as Paul Vixie likes to say: "your bozo bit is set." > BSDi was run by morons when they bought WC and we know that's not > true. We do? :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 13:13: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8265637B401 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:13:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john.toon@btinternet.com) Received: from [213.122.163.90] (helo=Dionysus) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15IbyG-0006bE-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 21:13:00 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: John Toon To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Installworld failure! Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:13:08 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01070618590800.00255@Dionysus> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Ack, make installworld failed! The Makefile seems broken: Dionysus# make installworld mkdir -p /tmp/install.281 for prog in [ awk cat chflags chmod chown date echo egrep find grep install ln make makewhatis mtree mv perl rm sed sh sysctl test true uname wc zic; do cp `which $prog` /tmp/install.281; done usage: cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-f | -i] [-pv] src target cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-f | -i] [-pv] src1 ... srcN directory *** Error code 64 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. The cp command is being called incorrectly... Anyone got any suggestions? John. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 13:15: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BACC37B401 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:15:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john.toon@btinternet.com) Received: from [213.122.163.90] (helo=Dionysus) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15Ic0E-00040A-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 21:15:02 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: John Toon To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Installworld failure! - 4.3-RELEASE Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:15:10 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01070618590800.00255@Dionysus> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Sorry I forgot to mention that I'm referring to the Makefile for 4.3-RELEASE. John. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 13:39:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web14903.mail.yahoo.com (web14903.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.225.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 62EB237B405 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:39:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bbhagvat@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010706203929.54462.qmail@web14903.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.174.64.235] by web14903.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:39:29 PDT Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:39:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Bhagyashri Bhagvat Subject: Question about device driver To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am new to this mailing list, and to the world of device drivers. Not sure if this is the right place for this question. Please, let me know if this is not the right place. I am developing a device driver for an ATM card, and need to develop a debug interface, like a console, so that I can access the card from the host. Can I integrate a character device driver with my ATM driver to provide a debug interface? If yes, how can I do that? Is there any other way of doing it? Any suggestions/pointers welcome. Thanks. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 14:28:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-93.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A0F937B403; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:28:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CA2EC66C4D; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:28:18 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010706142817.A61100@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0F1p//8PRICkK4MW" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com>; from jkh@osd.bsdi.com on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:03:41AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:03:41AM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > We, for example, need to ask ourselves if there even should be an > "official" CD distribution of FreeBSD and, if so, what the selection > criteria for such officiality should be. I was thinking about this the other day. I don't think there's very much money likely to be made in "value-add" CD distributions in the near future -- that requires hard work to add value, and that requires someone being paid to do it. What's likely to happen if we let it is that a number of entities will publish verbatim copies of the "officially produced" ISO images, and do so at production cost + some profit margin which only feeds back into their own pockets. This means that if the larger CD distribution facilities like, say, CheapBytes could do this more cheaply than someone like, say, DaemonNews, the latter will find it very hard to compete without losing money unless they can feed off of some kind of "preferred vendor" status. Entities which are more friendly to the FreeBSD project (like DaemonNews) and who may want to donate a portion of the proceeds to the Foundation will have to take it out of their profit margins and will lose money relative to those that don't. In the past, the officially blessed CD distributor was kicking back money directly to FreeBSD; whatever happens in the future with respect to CD distribution, I think we should make sure this continues to happen in an economically sustainable way. I also don't think people should be thinking about terminating (or even greatly weakening) the CD distribution relationship with WRS; they're still a big potential funding resource, even if their current FreeBSD sales channel sucks. As I've said in other messages, they're probably still in the stage where they're trying to integrate FreeBSD into their product line, and need customer feedback about how to improve their performance. Kris --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7Ri1xWry0BWjoQKURAtx8AJ99s4bTeSAFudpbCaFZwHjpBoOgDwCgrlXa 5ePycTorrKRasYklGPpqbak= =nC0O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0F1p//8PRICkK4MW-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 14:30:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-93.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B20B37B409 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:30:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 54BCF66C4D; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:30:19 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Bsdguru@aol.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010706143019.B61100@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <10c.24f4dbf.287763bb@aol.com> <20010706150019.U47870@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="qlTNgmc+xy1dBmNv" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010706150019.U47870@elvis.mu.org>; from billf@mu.org on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 03:00:19PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --qlTNgmc+xy1dBmNv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 03:00:19PM -0500, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:55:55PM -0400, Bsdguru@aol.com wrote: >=20 > > Nothing BSDi ever did made any sense, so why does this suprise you? The= fact=20 > > that BSDi didnt nothing positive for FreeBSD doesnt surprise me at all.= =20 >=20 > Luckily, with this post to the mailing list you can join the ranks of doi= ng > nothing positive for the project. Congrats! >=20 > In case you didn't know (which you probably don't, being an ignorant flam= ebait > poster and all), BSDi: employed many talented developers, funded or subsi= dized > various *BSD support events, donated hardware for *.FreeBSD.org, sent num= erous > volunteer developers to conferences at zero or low cost, and distributed = quite > a bit of hardware to developers who otherwise wouldn't have proper test > environments. Thats just to name a few things... >=20 > WRS still is doing many of the things that WCCDROM/BSDi did for the proje= ct > and the ones that they've stopped doing should simply look like a good > opportunity to others who want to step up in the community. Well said. Kris --qlTNgmc+xy1dBmNv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7Ri3rWry0BWjoQKURAkQnAJ9UPRnhWDti8hdGOBvcP8GOW1JUwACgqBoP 8mzQR3ekMPwmJ64Ak/9dhqM= =o6++ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qlTNgmc+xy1dBmNv-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 14:42: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085B837B406; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:41:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (#6@localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f66LeF361632; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:40:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <200107062140.f66LeF361632@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Image-URL: http://www.transsys.com/louie/images/louie-mail.jpg From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010706142817.A61100@xor.obsecurity.org> In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 06 Jul 2001 14:28:18 PDT." <20010706142817.A61100@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 17:40:15 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I was thinking about this the other day. I don't think there's very > much money likely to be made in "value-add" CD distributions in the > near future -- that requires hard work to add value, and that requires > someone being paid to do it. The value-add may have nothing to do with the contents of the CD's. Consider that having a well-run subscription service might be valuable, or perhaps better physical packaging in other than the standard jewel boxes. Or adding some addition disks as part of the set of other useful software or documentation. Perhaps providing sets of pre-built picobsd distributions with floppy images? Maybe with hardcopy versions of the handbook or other documentation. Or perhaps someone with phone-in tech support to help people install, run and support FreeBSD. There's a number of different price points and and value propositions you could shoot for. The tricky bit is finguring out which of the alternatives people want. :-) louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 14:49:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-93.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F373237B40B; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6D8B266C4D; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:49:35 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: "Louis A. Mamakos" Cc: Kris Kennaway , Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010706142817.A61100@xor.obsecurity.org> <200107062140.f66LeF361632@whizzo.transsys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200107062140.f66LeF361632@whizzo.transsys.com>; from louie@TransSys.COM on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 05:40:15PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 05:40:15PM -0400, Louis A. Mamakos wrote: >=20 > > I was thinking about this the other day. I don't think there's very > > much money likely to be made in "value-add" CD distributions in the > > near future -- that requires hard work to add value, and that requires > > someone being paid to do it. >=20 > The value-add may have nothing to do with the contents of the CD's. Cons= ider > that having a well-run subscription service might be valuable, or perhaps > better physical packaging in other than the standard jewel boxes. =20 >=20 > Or adding some addition disks as part of the set of other useful software > or documentation. Perhaps providing sets of pre-built picobsd > distributions with floppy images? Maybe with hardcopy versions of > the handbook or other documentation. Or perhaps someone with=20 > phone-in tech support to help people install, run and support FreeBSD. >=20 > There's a number of different price points and and value propositions > you could shoot for. The tricky bit is finguring out which of the > alternatives people want. :-) Yeah, and these all cost money, and are limited-appeal, so they're likely to not make much money, especially if there are other vendors doing similar things. The other side of the coin which I didn't mention is that the FreeBSD distribution market probably isn't big enough to support more than one or two vendors. To some extent that's not our problem, unless they all collapse except for the bare-bones vendors like CheapBytes who don't do anything to directly help the project, in which case we've screwed ourselves out of funding. Kris --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7RjJuWry0BWjoQKURAi6pAKD8vUQb4by+2uIJSss8WxLB1zUQqgCgtwa8 fAkHvfbPlIexNVICcgar77c= =xaPU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 14:49:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.matriplex.com (ns1.matriplex.com [208.131.42.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3AE837B40E for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:49:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Received: from mail.matriplex.com (mail.matriplex.com [208.131.42.9]) by mail.matriplex.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA09099; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:49:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:49:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges To: Bhagyashri Bhagvat Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Question about device driver In-Reply-To: <20010706203929.54462.qmail@web14903.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Bhagyashri Bhagvat wrote: > I am new to this mailing list, and to the world > of device drivers. Not sure if this is the right place > for this question. Please, let me know if this is not > the right place. > I am developing a device driver for an ATM card, That's a pretty big first step :-) Feel free to use mine as a template, if you like: http://www.hodges.org/rh/code/if_idt.tar.gz > and need to develop a debug interface, like a console, > so that I can access the card from the host. Can I > integrate a character device driver with my ATM driver > to provide a debug interface? The network drivers don't behave like character drivers. For status only messages, you could add a few sysctl entries to enable verbose messages, or maybe export a small number of important values. Is it possible to work with a "stateless CLI"? You might set up a magic address that you can use to send network packets to, in order to talk to the driver :-) This would be a bit more involved with a statefull shell, but not impossible (you could keep state in mbufs, for example). What kind of ATM driver are you going to work on? Whatever it is, I will probably be very interested in your progress! All the best, -Richard ------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | Matriplex, inc. Product Manager | 769 Basque Way rh@matriplex.com | Carson City, NV 89706 775-886-6477 | www.matriplex.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 14:55:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tao.org.uk (genesis.tao.org.uk [212.135.162.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8F637B401; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:55:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@tao.org.uk) Received: by tao.org.uk (Postfix, from userid 100) id A0E96577; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:55:47 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:55:47 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010706225547.B1799@tao.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Josef Karthauser , Kris Kennaway , Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010706142817.A61100@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="aVD9QWMuhilNxW9f" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010706142817.A61100@xor.obsecurity.org>; from kris@obsecurity.org on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:28:18PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --aVD9QWMuhilNxW9f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:28:18PM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: >=20 > In the past, the officially blessed CD distributor was kicking back > money directly to FreeBSD; whatever happens in the future with respect > to CD distribution, I think we should make sure this continues to > happen in an economically sustainable way. >=20 FSL, I believe, are keen to keep up this tradition also (although I can't speak for what projects they will be supporting). Joe --aVD9QWMuhilNxW9f Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtGM+IACgkQXVIcjOaxUBZQ0wCdE5hV+iri1XBA1YvtSA0c/tYH RAAAoMKc7zulwM/RD4LzfTXSKM9vUixS =uTSW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --aVD9QWMuhilNxW9f-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 15:27:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 539C537B406 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:27:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 43546 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 22:27:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO laptop.baldwin.cx) ([64.81.54.73]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Jul 2001 22:27:37 -0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010706174019.B700@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 15:27:34 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: Peter Pentchev Subject: Re: LIST_NEXT() Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Evan Sarmiento Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 06-Jul-01 Peter Pentchev wrote: > On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:48:26AM -0400, Evan Sarmiento wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I'm writing a kernel module, and it involves traversing the proc list >> searching for the right structure, >> however, when I use SLIST_NEXT(p, p_list) in the program, I get a warning >> when I compile it: >> >> warning: statement with mo effect >> >> What am I doing wrong? I've read the manpages on queue and looked at the >> proc structure. >> >> Here's the code: >> int >> prfw_setflags(p, uap) >> struct proc *p; >> struct prfw_setflags_args *uap; >> { >> ... >> if (uap->id) { >> while (uap->id != p->p_pid) >> LIST_NEXT(p, p_list); >> } > > Well, first, you're using LIST_NEXT(), not SLIST_NEXT() :) > Second, none of the *_NEXT() queue.h macros modify their parameters; > they just return a pointer to the next element. So, just try: > > p = LIST_NEXT(p, p_list); > > ..and you'll be just fine. However, you should be using pfind() to look up a process by pid. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 15:31: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f73.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1662E37B401 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:31:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from the_srinivas@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:31:06 -0700 Received: from 66.2.116.10 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 22:31:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.2.116.10] From: "Srinivas Dharmasanam" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: register new device driver Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 15:31:05 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2001 22:31:06.0052 (UTC) FILETIME=[58952040:01C1066B] Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm trying this on FreeBSD 4.2 Release. -Srinivas >From: Julian Elischer >To: Srinivas Dharmasanam >CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: Re: register new device driver >Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:38:15 -0700 (PDT) > >what version of FreeBSD are you doing this on? >(it makes a difference) > > >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Srinivas Dharmasanam wrote: > > > Hi, > > I used the /usr/share/examples/make_device_driver.sh to create a device > > driver in /sys/i386/isa and included my additions in the skeleton >provided. > > > > Now, I'm trying to call the mmap function with the "filed" argument >equal to > > that corresponding to this new device. > > > > Can you please let me know what else needs to be done to register this > > device in the kernel. > > > > Thanks, > > -Sri > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 16:59:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp4ve.mailsrvcs.net (smtp4vepub.gte.net [206.46.170.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F391237B406; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:59:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babkin@bellatlantic.net) Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-198-117-141.nnj.dialup.bellatlantic.net [151.198.117.141]) by smtp4ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA50601901; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 23:59:13 GMT Message-ID: <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 19:59:12 -0400 From: Sergey Babkin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-19990626-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kris Kennaway Cc: "Louis A. Mamakos" , Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010706142817.A61100@xor.obsecurity.org> <200107062140.f66LeF361632@whizzo.transsys.com> <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Kris Kennaway wrote: > > Yeah, and these all cost money, and are limited-appeal, so they're > likely to not make much money, especially if there are other vendors > doing similar things. The other side of the coin which I didn't > mention is that the FreeBSD distribution market probably isn't big > enough to support more than one or two vendors. To some extent that's > not our problem, unless they all collapse except for the bare-bones > vendors like CheapBytes who don't do anything to directly help the > project, in which case we've screwed ourselves out of funding. If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we can just change the license for the CD images to "not for resale" unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ? -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 18:32:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (dhcp44-21.dis.org [216.240.44.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67A837B403 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f671jfs00773 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200107070145.f671jfs00773@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [FLUFF] subr_figlet.c, some assembly required. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 18:45:41 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For those of you that have too much time on your hands. http://people.freebsd.org/~msmith/subr_figlet.diff You'll need to load a font before booting; load -t figlet_font .flf Now, for the complication; it's wrapping lines at a single character. If someone wants to work out why, I'd love to know so that I can finish the masterwork. 8) -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 20:41:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED4937B409; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:41:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f673eUt80687; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:40:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: kris@obsecurity.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <20010706142817.A61100@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010706142817.A61100@xor.obsecurity.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010706204030E.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:40:30 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 58 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:28:18 -0700 > What's likely to happen if we let it is that a number of entities will > publish verbatim copies of the "officially produced" ISO images, and > do so at production cost + some profit margin which only feeds back > into their own pockets. Well, you're making several assumptions here, some of which may or may not be true by the time 4.4 is ready to go to press: 1. That the "officially produced" ISO images aren't already done with 100% volunteer labor and hence, in the strictest sense of the word, the property of the project and not any one company who didn't actually invest in those 5 images (they may invest in some other value-add, but that's to judge an unknown quantity right now). 2. That whomever's doing the "officially produced" ISO images will, indeed, be funneling any profits back to the FreeBSD Foundation or through some other donation vehicle they work out. This has always been done on the honor system in the past, and that's a lot easier to arrange and keep going with a small company. Large companies sign contracts and have lots of lawyers around when they enter into agreements like this, on the other hand, and that's something which has traditionally mitigated against successful negotations of this nature. We'll have to see. > facilities like, say, CheapBytes could do this more cheaply than > someone like, say, DaemonNews, the latter will find it very hard to > compete without losing money unless they can feed off of some kind of > "preferred vendor" status. Entities which are more friendly to the Well, based at least on the reaction I got from the other assembled developers at USENIX, I tend to think that having a "preferred vendor" has fallen somewhat out of fashion with the project. I don't think anyone wants to get burned by the perception of having too close a tie with anyone in the future, to say nothing of the wide-spread rumor mongering about "the project dying" that starts up every time any company even remotely connected with the project has difficulties, and I think it's now encumbent on this project to demonstrate that it's bigger than any one relationship and will, at worst, merely lose some replaceable assets if one goes away. > I also don't think people should be thinking about terminating (or > even greatly weakening) the CD distribution relationship with WRS; > they're still a big potential funding resource, even if their current > FreeBSD sales channel sucks. Again, I think whether the distribution relationship is strong or weak in the future depends a lot more on WRS (or anyone else in the same position) than it depends on anything the project does now. The best the project can do is operate in the general interest and try for "optimum separation" between it and any 3rd party, where optimum is the right balance between cooperation and independence, both actual and perceived. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 20:49:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227A237B406; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:49:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f673n0t80754; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:49:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: msmith@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [FLUFF] subr_figlet.c, some assembly required. In-Reply-To: <200107070145.f671jfs00773@mass.dis.org> References: <200107070145.f671jfs00773@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010706204900E.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:49:00 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 9 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Mike Smith Subject: [FLUFF] subr_figlet.c, some assembly required. Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 18:45:41 -0700 > http://people.freebsd.org/~msmith/subr_figlet.diff Cute, but why isn't it written in forth?! :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 20:50:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4394037B405; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:50:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f673lZt80742; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:47:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: babkin@bellatlantic.net Cc: kris@obsecurity.org, louie@TransSys.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> References: <200107062140.f66LeF361632@whizzo.transsys.com> <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010706204735V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:47:35 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 18 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Sergey Babkin Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 19:59:12 -0400 > If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we > can just change the license for the CD images to "not for resale" > unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ? I think that creates a rather significant tie to the foundation that currently does not exist and may not even want to exist. The foundation currently operates with a good deal of autonomy, after all, and its founders apparently like it that way. The foundation is not beholden to core or anyone but its officers, and folks just have to trust them to do the right thing. Which is as it should be. Any closer ties would probably create more problems than they were potentially designed to solve. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 21:28: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp2.knology.net (user-24-214-63-14.knology.net [24.214.63.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9F81337B401 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:27:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@havk.org) Received: (qmail 15098 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 04:27:58 -0000 Received: from user-24-214-56-224.knology.net (HELO bsd.havk.org) (24.214.56.224) by user-24-214-63-14.knology.net with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 04:27:58 -0000 Received: by bsd.havk.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 61E6F1A7B5; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 23:27:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 23:27:29 -0500 From: Steve Price To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FW: gdb debugging tips Message-ID: <20010706232729.J93367@bsd.havk.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Not sure if this is hackers@ material but since it is FreeBSD- related and is probably something people on this can do in their sleep I'm forwarding this here after no response on chat. ----- Forwarded message from Steve Price ----- I've been having problems with a software package for which I only have a binary with no debugging symbols. In talking to the folks that wrote the software I know what arguments the routine takes I just need to be able to see them in the debugger. Here's what I've done: Fire up the program. Attach to the pid of the running process with 'gdb lsv 10336'. I've set the breakpoint at the routine that I'm interested in 'break LH2P' and I've coerced the program to run to the breakpoint. Here's where I'm lost. I'm back in gdb and it is waiting for me to tell it what to do. I know the function LH2P takes one argument a 'char *'. How do I view a function's arguments? With debugging symbols this is as easy as 'where'. I figured 'info args' would be the ticket but all it says is 'No symbol table info avialable'. Now I'm betting the information from 'info frame' is the key but how to decipher it. Thanks. -steve ----- End forwarded message ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 21:45: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D7FA37B405; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:44:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shannon@daydream.shannon.net) Received: from [209.96.185.131] (helo=escape.shannon.net) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15Ijxd-00006o-00; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 00:44:54 -0400 Received: from daydream (daydream.shannon.net [192.168.1.10]) by escape.shannon.net (8.11.0/8.8.8) with ESMTP id f674Nkg16548; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 00:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from shannon by daydream with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15Ijd7-0004tY-00; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 00:23:41 -0400 Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 00:23:41 -0400 From: Shannon Hendrix To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010706142817.A61100@xor.obsecurity.org> <200107062140.f66LeF361632@whizzo.transsys.com> <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.18i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 07:59:12PM -0400, Sergey Babkin wrote: > If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we > can just change the license for the CD images to "not for resale" > unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ? I don't think this is a good idea. The foundation can give a certain CD vendor official status without limiting the rest. This is how things were in the past, and it seemed OK to me. For example, I occasionally bought the "offical" CD set from whoever was selling it. I could get it much cheaper elsewhere, but wanted to contribute money from time to time to help the project and the vendors who supported it. However, I didn't want to pay that much for CDs of the minor updates, so I usually got those from Cheap Bytes, or got a friend with fast network access to get it for me. As a FreeBSD user, I found this a useful way of doing business. Will a company like Cheap Bytes really do that much damage to the "official" vendor? The only thing I'm concerned with _as_a_user_, is that anyone who distributes CDs uses what the core team supports as "being FreeBSD". I'd hate to see someone roll their own and call it FreeBSD. -- "The determined programmer can write a FORTRAN program in any language." ______________________________________________________________________ Charles Shannon Hendrix s h a n n o n @ w i d o m a k e r . c o m To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 22:56:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web10306.mail.yahoo.com (web10306.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2993D37B407 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:56:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from supra87t@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010707055623.29224.qmail@web10306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.36.69.28] by web10306.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 22:56:23 PDT Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:56:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Mohler Subject: Failing kernel build 4.3R To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Whilst trying to compile a kernel, I run into these types of errors. I havent touched anything to do with any modules..but its failing. Ideas why? Thanks! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 6 22:58:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web10305.mail.yahoo.com (web10305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3ECC537B407 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:58:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from supra87t@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010707055848.95981.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.36.69.28] by web10305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 22:58:48 PDT Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:58:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Mohler Subject: Failing kernel build..text this time. To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG speedracer# make install chflags noschg /kernel mv /kernel /kernel.old install -c -m 555 -o root -g wheel -fschg kernel /kernel if [ -d /modules -a -n "`ls /modules`" ]; then mkdir -p /modules.old; cp -p /modules/* /modules.old; fi; cd ../../modules && env MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=/nos/src/sys/compile/www/modules make install ===> accf_data install -c -o root -g wheel -m 555 accf_data.ko /modules install: accf_data.ko: No such file or directory *** Error code 71 Stop in /nos/src/sys/modules/accf_data. *** Error code 1 Stop in /nos/src/sys/modules. *** Error code 1 Stop in /nos/src/sys/compile/www. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 0:12:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51B9F37B401; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 00:12:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f677BLn32137; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:11:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Sergey Babkin Cc: Kris Kennaway , "Louis A. Mamakos" , Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Jul 2001 19:59:12 EDT." <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 09:11:21 +0200 Message-ID: <32135.994489881@critter> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net>, Sergey Babkin writes: >If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we >can just change the license for the CD images to "not for resale" >unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ? Why on _earth_ would we make it so hard for people to get hold of a media copy of FreeBSD, when absolutely nothing prevents me or anybody else from rolling a net distribution ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 0:48: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFCB37B403 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 00:47:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f677lVt81348; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 00:47:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: shannon@widomaker.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 00:47:31 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 43 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Redirected to only -hackers] From: Shannon Hendrix Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 00:23:41 -0400 > I don't think this is a good idea. The foundation can give a certain CD > vendor official status without limiting the rest. This is how things > were in the past, and it seemed OK to me. Erm, I really think that some folks are missing the point with all this. It's not up to the foundation to determine how the release bits are distributed nor has it ever been, just as it's not up to the release engineer or the FreeBSD core team to determine how the foundation spends any money it collects. Each is a completely separate entities with its own methods of picking "officers" and making decisions. They should all certainly be on friendly terms as they're all in the same "FreeBSD boat", but people really need to be careful about making assumptions about what the Foundation does or, for that matter, the core team does. If you haven't heard something explicitly stated as a part of some group's public mandate, please don't assume that it's the case. :( > The only thing I'm concerned with _as_a_user_, is that anyone who > distributes CDs uses what the core team supports as "being FreeBSD". I'd > hate to see someone roll their own and call it FreeBSD. I think Nik already did a good job of covering this. If you distribute, at a minimum, the "base bits" that will come on the mini-ISO image and make it clear that the standard installation tools are present and should be used for any "stock" FreeBSD installation experience, you're in the clear. You can certainly offer wizzo things like a graphical installer as an option and document it as the preferred installation method for people using FreeBSD as a desktop, for example, but it has to be very clear that this is a non-standard value-add and they (the user) shouldn't just fire up a message to freebsd-questions if they have problems with it. Nobody on that mailing list will even likely know what that user is talking about and confusion will reign all around. By making it clear at the outset that it's an extention and "not simply FreeBSD", that should be OK. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 1:10:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A07DF37B401 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:10:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kaoskode@swbell.net) Received: from terry ([65.65.181.11]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with SMTP id <0GG300J2CG2CO0@mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net> for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 03:11:01 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 03:11:01 -0500 From: Gary Simmons Subject: FreeBSD/x86-mailing list To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-id: <001c01c106bc$5c8f5480$0b01a8c0@swbell> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C10692.7386F1E0" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C10692.7386F1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please add me to list my email is kaoskode@swbell.net ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C10692.7386F1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
please add me to list my email is kaoskode@swbell.net
<= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C10692.7386F1E0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 1:17:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA01F37B405; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:17:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f678HVM71058; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:17:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 952F7380F; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:17:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Sergey Babkin , Kris Kennaway , "Louis A. Mamakos" , Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <32135.994489881@critter> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:17:31 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010707081731.952F7380F@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net>, Sergey Babkin writes: > > >If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we > >can just change the license for the CD images to "not for resale" > >unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ? > > Why on _earth_ would we make it so hard for people to get hold > of a media copy of FreeBSD, when absolutely nothing prevents > me or anybody else from rolling a net distribution ? Well said! Keep the big picture in mind folks.. The objective here is to get FreeBSD into as many people's hands as practical. Hell, if Microsoft phoned up tomorrow asking whether they could sell a pre-packaged FreeBSD CD-ROM kit, I'd roll some masters personally and fly them overnight to make sure that nothing went wrong! And if some organization is funding developers to work on FreeBSD full time, then I personally would go out of my way to help them too, should they need something. (several spring to mind) All this hot air about "protecting" the .iso's is the *least* of our worries. The bigger issue is getting them "out there", not restricting them. The more the better. Can we go and get a life now please? Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 10:30:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.matriplex.com (ns1.matriplex.com [208.131.42.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D710137B401 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:30:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Received: from mail.matriplex.com (mail.matriplex.com [208.131.42.9]) by mail.matriplex.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA12757 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:30:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:30:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Shannon Hendrix > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 00:23:41 -0400 > > > I don't think this is a good idea. The foundation can give a certain CD > > vendor official status without limiting the rest. This is how things > > were in the past, and it seemed OK to me. On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > Erm, I really think that some folks are missing the point with all > this. It's not up to the foundation to determine how the release bits > are distributed nor has it ever been, just as it's not up to the > release engineer or the FreeBSD core team to determine how the > foundation spends any money it collects. Could I just ask exactly what the FreeBSD Foundation _is_? I read the announcement and bylaws, and it looks like it is supposed to be the offical organization representing FreeBSD. On the other hand, many people have suggested that there is no connection between Core and the Foundation. Although I infer tacit consent, I have not heard any official blessing of the Foundation, either. But there is more than a hint of transfering the FreeBSD trademark to the Foundation. So, is the Foundation the heir apparent to whatever passes as the "official" FreeBSD organization? Or is it just a "West Squirrel Mountain Area FreeBSD Users Group"? (Not that there's anything wrong with that...) With Walnut Creek out of the picture, will Core continue to coordinate official releases? If not Core, will the Foundation handle this? If the Foundation holds the trademark, that implies that the Foundation has some legal control over the distribution, at least as "FreeBSD". And as far as distribution goes, if my vote counts, I would suggest that anyone should have the right to sell (or give away) copies for whatever price they want. The more copies, the better! I fail to see why FreeBSD distribution should be "guided" to certain entities based on their political contributions. All the best, -Richard ------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | Matriplex, inc. Product Manager | 769 Basque Way rh@matriplex.com | Carson City, NV 89706 775-886-6477 | www.matriplex.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 15: 6:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peace.mahoroba.org (peace.calm.imasy.or.jp [202.227.26.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F056237B405; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:06:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ume@mahoroba.org) Received: from localhost (IDENT:Rat3b1V0t2eZLK06oKCv25PwfaRCMPEB5N7LLZ0epVmtfHOeEVnf94pLmF+9hRNK@localhost [::1]) (authenticated as ume with CRAM-MD5) by peace.mahoroba.org (8.11.4/8.11.4/peace) with ESMTP/inet6 id f67M6Df37361; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 07:06:14 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from ume@mahoroba.org) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 07:06:10 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20010708.070610.74741066.ume@mahoroba.org> To: hackers@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org Subject: Fw: Fwd: (SIOCAIFADDR) Please help me! From: Hajimu UMEMOTO X-Mailer: Mew version 1.95b119 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 =?iso-2022-jp?B?KBskQjJWMWMbKEIp?= X-PGP-Public-Key: http://www.imasy.org/~ume/publickey.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 0C 53 FC 5D D0 37 91 05 D0 B3 EF 36 9B 6A BC X-URL: http://www.imasy.org/~ume/ X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="--Next_Part(Sun_Jul__8_07:06:10_2001_142)--" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ----Next_Part(Sun_Jul__8_07:06:10_2001_142)-- Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eduardo, your mail host (200.190.143.201) seems to have no PTR RR. ----Next_Part(Sun_Jul__8_07:06:10_2001_142)-- Content-Type: Message/Rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.mahoroba.org (8.11.4/8.11.4/chaos) with UUCP id f67LotZ10291 for ume@mahoroba.org; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 06:50:55 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from ebf@cwb.fnn.net) Received: from cwb.fnn.net ([200.190.143.201]) by light.imasy.or.jp (8.11.3+3.4W/8.11.3/light) with SMTP/inet id f67Lo2B17435 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 06:50:05 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from ebf@cwb.fnn.net) Received: (qmail 78571 invoked by uid 85); 7 Jul 2001 21:56:36 -0000 Received: from ebf@cwb.fnn.net by aline.cwb.fnn.net with FutureMail-ViruScanner-Por_Eduardo_B._Fonseca-0.96 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4145. . Clean. Processed in 0.290295 secs); 07 Jul 2001 21:56:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO peugeot206.cwb.fnn.net) (200.190.143.160) by aline.cwb.fnn.net with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 21:56:36 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Eduardo B. Fonseca" Organization: A&D Solucoes Ltda. To: Hajimu UMEMOTO Subject: Fwd: (SIOCAIFADDR) Please help me! Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 18:50:08 -0300 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] Message-Id: <01070718500804.00297@peugeot206.cwb.fnn.net> X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mail.mahoroba.org id f67LotZ10291 Mime-Version: 1.0 (modified by Mew) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (modified by Mew) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mr. Umemoto, Sorry to bother you. I'm trying to send this e-mail to the mailing lis= t but = (although I'm subscribed) It just doesn't work. Could you please, relay= this = to the freebsd-net and freebsd-hackers list? I can receive any e-mails = to the = list but I can't send. = Thanks a lot! Eduardo. - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: (SIOCAIFADDR) Please help me! Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 18:37:14 -0300 From: Eduardo B. Fonseca To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, = freebsd-net@freebsd.org, net@freebsd.org Hello guys, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Please... What's wrong with the code below? So= metimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Yesterday, I've tested it and everything worked f= ine... Now, everytime I try to set the machine's IP address with this code, it= does not work... It sets a bogus IP, with a bogus netmask... I'm stumped... I can't find documentation anywhere. void Interface:: AddAddressOnInterface(int sockfd, string ip, string netmsk, string broa= daddr) { =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 struct =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 ifaliasreq =A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 request; =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 bzero (&request, sizeof(= struct ifaliasreq)); =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 strcpy(request.ifra_name= ,deviceName.c_str()); =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 request.ifra_addr.sa_fam= ily=A0=A0=A0=A0 =3D AF_INET; =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 inet_pton(AF_INET, ip.c_= str(), &((struct sockaddr_in *)&request.ifra_addr)->sin_addr); =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 inet_pton(AF_INET, netms= k.c_str(), &((struct sockaddr_in *)&request.ifra_mask)->sin_addr); =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 inet_pton(AF_INET, broad= addr.c_str(), &((struct sockaddr_in *)&request.ifra_broadaddr)->sin_addr); =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 ioctl(sockfd,SIOCAIFADDR= ,&request); } Thanks for any help. Regards, Eduardo. - ------------------------------------------------------- - -- = Eduardo B. Fonseca Diretor Regional Curitiba FutureNet Telecomunica=E7=F5es e Inform=E1tica Ltda ebf@cwb.fnn.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7R4QQf9aI6FhScUkRAqj4AJ9R83iKO+qQlzPvEun7tIWxgc+ERgCgrOqG wK5nfbFrAKf2IHK+A93VLl4=3D =3DJEsw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----Next_Part(Sun_Jul__8_07:06:10_2001_142)---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 15:11:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (gw.Awfulhak.org [217.204.245.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0502437B401; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:11:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f67MCAr12363; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 23:12:10 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f67MCEn37752; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 23:12:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200107072212.f67MCEn37752@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Josef Karthauser , Richard Hodges , Kris Kennaway , Ted Mittelstaedt , Jordan Hubbard Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Brian Somers , Paul Richards Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: Message from Josef Karthauser of "Fri, 06 Jul 2001 22:55:47 BST." <20010706225547.B1799@tao.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 23:12:14 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Josef Karthauser wrote: > On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 02:28:18PM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > >=20 > > In the past, the officially blessed CD distributor was kicking back > > money directly to FreeBSD; whatever happens in the future with respect > > to CD distribution, I think we should make sure this continues to > > happen in an economically sustainable way. > >=20 > > FSL, I believe, are keen to keep up this tradition also (although I > can't speak for what projects they will be supporting). To qualify this (a little), we (FSL == FreeBSD Services Ltd) will be distributing a FreeBSD-4.4 DVD set. The profits will be used to fund developers (Paul Richards, Mark Murray and I to start with) initially in the form of our wages, but eventually in more diverse ways that are beneficial to the project at large. We also plan to adopt the give-free-DVDs-to-all-developers approach subject to our financial success. To give people confidence in our abilities, we gave away about 350 FreeBSD-4.3 DVDs at Usenix last week -- samples of what's to come (and proof that we can produce). http://www.FreeBSD-services.com/ has more details (please feel free to register for further updates). Richard Hodges wrote: > And as far as distribution goes, if my vote counts, I would suggest > that anyone should have the right to sell (or give away) copies for > whatever price they want. The more copies, the better! I fail to > see why FreeBSD distribution should be "guided" to certain entities > based on their political contributions. FSL have thought quite a bit about this -- what's acceptable as a FreeBSD release. We need some sort of balance. On one hand, we (the FreeBSD project) want to encourage distributors to produce copies of FreeBSD with added-value. On the other hand, we don't want to end up with the linux-effect. The idea of producing standard distributions on which vendors can base their projects means that we can keep control of the base system - ensuring that the evolution of different flavours of FreeBSD are based on what *we* want, not on what someone's marketing department wants. For example, a good way for a vendor to build their own flavour of FreeBSD might be to provide a ``Vendor-Desktop'' port/package that people can select from sysinstall to give them everything that the vendor wants to provide as standard, maybe even including proprietary stuff. So I think the idea of an ``official'' distribution is good, but only insofar as that implies that the distribution contains a specific base system. Anyone who mucks about with that official base system in a way that's not controlled by the user should not be allowed to call their distribution ``official''. Kris Kennaway wrote: > What's likely to happen if we let it is that a number of entities will > publish verbatim copies of the "officially produced" ISO images, and > do so at production cost + some profit margin which only feeds back > into their own pockets. This means that if the larger CD distribution > facilities like, say, CheapBytes could do this more cheaply than > someone like, say, DaemonNews, the latter will find it very hard to > compete without losing money unless they can feed off of some kind of > "preferred vendor" status. Entities which are more friendly to the > FreeBSD project (like DaemonNews) and who may want to donate a portion > of the proceeds to the Foundation will have to take it out of their > profit margins and will lose money relative to those that don't. > > In the past, the officially blessed CD distributor was kicking back > money directly to FreeBSD; whatever happens in the future with respect > to CD distribution, I think we should make sure this continues to > happen in an economically sustainable way. I don't think we'll get away with ``favouring'' certain distributors. It's not really with the spirit of things. As Jordan has said, the kick-back contributions have always been very much appreciated, but not based on any official agreements. I personally believe that the distributors who contribute stuff back will continue to be favoured - but maybe I'm being idealistic. Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > So, are you ready for $100-per-box FreeBSD distros? Do you think the > FreeBSD userbase is? Boy, now THAT's sure an advance for the customer! I think you're over-reacting Ted. FSL are planning on selling the two-DVD set for around $40.00. We may even be putting a CD on the other side of the initial disc (that may put costs up by a few $$, but will benefit more people), but the FreeBSD community will continue to get reasonable value. The $100 vendors will just simply sink. Jordan Hubbard wrote: > Also, when Wes said the following: > > > Specifically, we need a Product Manager who can shepherd FreeBSD through > > the release process, and coordinate with CD-ROM distributor(s) who are > > I think he perhaps wasn't clear on the fact that I'll still be > "shepherding FreeBSD through the release process" and working with > many of the very same FreeBSD volunteers to organize the bits, there > just won't be any "official tie" to any one distributor. Given > WindRiver's recent redirection of orders to BSD Central which started > all this fuss, it's not even clear to us that they want to stay in the > CDROM business anyway, but if they or anyone else (like the DVD folks) > want to "coordinate" with us then they can do so simply by sending us, > the volunteer release engineering and QA team, email with their > requirements. We'll do as much to oblige them as the project has > always done for any FreeBSD customer who's approached it with a > reasonable request for increasing FreeBSD's mindshare or ease of use. I think this approach is key, and reflects what the FreeBSD community has been doing from day one -- part of what attracted me to the project in the first place. We're all here because we enjoy doing our bit for the project. We're now at a point where people are likely to start marketing us in more diverse ways than before, and we should try to get on top of the situation before it gets on top of us. We have some interesting times coming up in the next few months :) -- Brian http://www.freebsd-services.com/ Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 15:14:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA1937B405 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:14:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=788decc8238e43a292793630d1999fb8) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15J0Qg-0000FR-00; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 16:19:58 -0600 Message-ID: <3B478B0E.13D47C55@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 16:19:58 -0600 From: Wes Peters Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeeBSD.ORG Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <000701c10452$ca818600$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <3B4560DD.428634F8@softweyr.com> <20010706020341B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > From: Wes Peters > > > Or not, if every other distributor that actually cares to distribute > > FreeBSD has dried up and blown away because WRS has been handing out > > exclusive access to the "official" FreeBSD ISO images. > > We already discussed this during the FreeBSD developer's summit at > USENIX Again, sadly, pointing out the limitations of meetings that not everyone can attend. This can only get worse as the developer community grows. Having any minutes of this meeting been posted? > I've wanted since almost the very beginning to release all the ISO > bits since the work which went into creating them often came > significantly from the FreeBSD.org community (people like Steve Price > and the ports team, thanks guys!) and it's only natural that I'd want > all of that to go back. Unfortunately, I was also beholden to folks > like Walnut Creek CDROM and BSDi since they were also paying my salary > and that of several other FreeBSD folks who were doing much of the > other work involved with publishing CDs. They could lay fair claim to > at least some of the release engineering work I and others there did, > though on the plus side there was also a pretty good relationship > between Walnut Creek CDROM and the FreeBSD Project which was clearly > of mutual benefit in many ways. I think the entire community agrees the relationship between FreeBSD and Walnut Creek CDROM was symbiotic. I certainly appreciate the many great things Bob Bruce did for us, and am glad FreeBSD helped him grow his business in return. > Times have clearly changed, however, and Walnut Creek CDROM is long > and sadly gone. Whether what's taken its place turns out to be a good > match for the FreeBSD project or not still remains very much to be > seen, but perhaps that's simply a clear indication that now's as good > a time as any to re-evaluate the way we deal with external > relationships like this and not simply take continuity for granted. I think the entire community has been concerned about this since the announcement of the WRS purchase. I have not been one of the nay- sayers in this, having been a long-time customer of WRS and perhaps somewhat more able to evaluate their strengths and weaknesses than someone who doesn't know them. FreeBSD actually could fit relatively well into their software tools production, should they choose to do that, but it doesn't look like that is the way their relationship with FreeBSD is moving. > We, for example, need to ask ourselves if there even should be an > "official" CD distribution of FreeBSD and, if so, what the selection > criteria for such officiality should be. Yes, that is partly what I am concerned about. I'll elaborate below. > FreeBSD has always been a meritocracy and I see no reason why CDROM > vendors should not be selected the same way - put the bits up for > grabs and may the vendor with the best customer service and charming > bedside manner win. Precisely as it should be. It is in the best interest of the FreeBSD Project to "spread the wealth" among distributors, to try to get the maximum eyeball count looking at FreeBSD as an option. Some may call me a heretic for saying so, but imagine the coverage we could get from a RedHat, Mandrake, or SuSE FreeBSD distribution. > That's assuming, of course, that the changing > internet economy and proliferation of high speed access leaves room > for anyone to make a business out of selling "straight media" without > any significant value-add. All the more reason to take a wait-and-see > attitude and simply not endorse any distribution until the sands stop > shifting around and we see who's left standing and in what condition. Yes. There are any number of businesses who produce CD-ROM products, and no reason the FreeBSD Project or any related institutions should gamble their limited funds on disc production. Leave the business risks to the businessmen who profit from them. > Now that I'm also back to doing release engineering purely on my own > time (not that Apple would have any publishing interest in the > resulting product in any case), I'm free of any conflict-of-interest > constraints and can simply make the whole ball of wax available for > FTP. Why would anyone want a ball of wax? I have no idea. It's a > figure of speach. > > Anyway, the following is what we initially came up with at USENIX for > FreeBSD 4.4-RELEASE. Nothing is frozen in stone here and it's all > subject to user feedback, so let me know what you guys think of this: > > o FTP release, as usual > > o 1 "Mini ISO" containing just the ftp release bits and XFree86. > Intended audience is just those folks who want a [relatively] small > and convenient boot image without any packages or "extras" other > than X. > > o 4 "release ISOs" containing the usual base bits + packages. No > Walnut Creek CDROM copyrighted material will be used, of course, > though I've been gradually pruning that off over the last few > releases anyway since it was largely all old and outdated DOS helper > cruft (like view.exe) and I rather doubt that anyone has even > noticed its absence. > > o A full collection of packages and distfiles, not broken up in any > way but at least syncronized with the release bits (again, pretty > much what we already do today). This is intended for DVD media > folks like FreeBSD Services Ltd to come and package up in their own > way given the rather different constraints they have on media > sizing. I like this idea a lot. I'd even like to see a "request" for funding the project in some way from vendors who make use of these ISOs. Perhaps we could create an "official FreeBSD" logo they would be allowed to apply to the media in return for a $1 payment for the mini ISO or $2 payment for either of the other distributions. Vendors would be free to use the ISOs sans payment, but not to affix the "official FreeBSD" logo. I'm unsure where the payments might be directed, other than to the FreeBSD Foundation, which would be the logical trademark holder as well. In one of my other roles, I recently discussed with a product manager the idea of creating custom FreeBSD workstation distributions, pre- configured for KDE or Gnome installations. We would be happy to base them on the mini-ISO, and to fork over a dollar to make it an "offical" FreeBSD release, too. We would produce these in relatively small runs, lowering our exposure to market failures (and our profits), but would be able to offer this as the value-add you wrote about. > Also, when Wes said the following: > > > Specifically, we need a Product Manager who can shepherd FreeBSD through > > the release process, and coordinate with CD-ROM distributor(s) who are > > I think he perhaps wasn't clear on the fact that I'll still be > "shepherding FreeBSD through the release process" and working with > many of the very same FreeBSD volunteers to organize the bits, Thank you! I was not sure that your new job would leave you the time to continue this service. I am sure I speak for the entire FreeBSD community in thanking you for your ongoing efforts. > there just won't be any "official tie" to any one distributor. Phew! > Given > WindRiver's recent redirection of orders to BSD Central which started > all this fuss, it's not even clear to us that they want to stay in the > CDROM business anyway, but if they or anyone else (like the DVD folks) > want to "coordinate" with us then they can do so simply by sending us, > the volunteer release engineering and QA team, email with their > requirements. We'll do as much to oblige them as the project has > always done for any FreeBSD customer who's approached it with a > reasonable request for increasing FreeBSD's mindshare or ease of use. I think the creation of the above standard distribution tools and a clarification of what "official" status might mean is adequate to start with. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 15:30: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F35437B401 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:29:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=5ee2526f7cccf4aeafb944f4f3052732) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15J0fK-0000Fi-00; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 16:35:06 -0600 Message-ID: <3B478E9A.2BC9FF40@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 16:35:06 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Pentchev Cc: Noses , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010706020902V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <200107061038.f66AcXd31977@proxon.bnc.net> <20010706141953.C598@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Pentchev wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 12:38:33PM +0200, Noses wrote: > > In <20010706020902V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> jkh@osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard) wrote: > > > Yeesh, you'd think I'd announced my funeral by how some people have > > > taken this whole Apple thing. :-) > > > > If so - where will the funeral be held and will there be Jordan soup for > > sharing and grokking (although I'd prefer some other people to donate some > > food)? Soup? Jordan? Never. A nice thick stew with beer broth, yes. Obviously it will be served in the Apple Cafeteria, though probably not in the natural & organic section. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 15:42:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts5.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8797637B405 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:42:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dp@penix.org) Received: from penix.org ([65.92.119.159]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20010707224224.OGHC17517.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@penix.org> for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 18:42:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3B4793CB.FDC5B64@penix.org> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 18:57:15 -0400 From: Paul Halliday X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-RC i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Can someone verify this? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD dissent.p450.box 4.3-RC FreeBSD 4.3-RC #3: Sun Jun 10 22:27:47 EDT 2001 root@dissent.p450.box:/usr/src/sys/compile/workstation i386 FreeBSD useless.dell.box 4.3-STABLE FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE #6: Fri Jul 6 18:57:08 EDT 2001 root@useless.dell.box:/usr/src/sys/compile/useless i386 mount /dev/acd0c /cdrom > should obviously fail, yet causes... panic: vm -fault on nofault entry, addr: c3e1e000 ....reboot. any ideas? -- Paul H. ___________________ http://dp.penix.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 15:52: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.matriplex.com (ns1.matriplex.com [208.131.42.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8D5337B407 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:51:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Received: from mail.matriplex.com (mail.matriplex.com [208.131.42.9]) by mail.matriplex.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA13399; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rh@matriplex.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:51:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges To: Brian Somers Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: <200107072212.f67MCEn37752@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Brian Somers wrote: > Richard Hodges wrote: > > And as far as distribution goes, if my vote counts, I would suggest > > that anyone should have the right to sell (or give away) copies for > > whatever price they want. The more copies, the better! I fail to > > see why FreeBSD distribution should be "guided" to certain entities > > based on their political contributions. > FSL have thought quite a bit about this -- what's acceptable as a > FreeBSD release. We need some sort of balance. On one hand, we (the > FreeBSD project) want to encourage distributors to produce copies of > FreeBSD with added-value. On the other hand, we don't want to end up > with the linux-effect. Really? I was hoping to see a new disto with the FreeBSD userland wrapped around a Linux kernel :-) Or was it the other way around... But as far as "added-value" goes, why wouldn't minimum cost be an added value to a potential customer? I think that the companies like Cheapbytes serve a social purpose in this regard. > So I think the idea of an ``official'' distribution is good, but only > insofar as that implies that the distribution contains a specific > base system. Anyone who mucks about with that official base system > in a way that's not controlled by the user should not be allowed to > call their distribution ``official''. Sure, no argument there. Taking Wes' suggestion, maybe there is an opportunity in the "official" distribution distinction. How about a "certificate of authenticity" which costs the vendors $1 or $2 (or whatever), and shows the customer that their choice of vendors helped FreeBSD financially. Incidentally, this certificate might also be a selling point for those twisted individuals that just don't understand free software :-) Thanks for the info, -Richard ------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | Matriplex, inc. Product Manager | 769 Basque Way rh@matriplex.com | Carson City, NV 89706 775-886-6477 | www.matriplex.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 16:19:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E8A37B403 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 16:19:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f67NIuX29172; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 23:18:56 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 23:18:55 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: Richard Hodges Cc: Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com Subject: Authentic FreeBSD (Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:51:51 -0700 (PDT) > From: Richard Hodges > Sure, no argument there. Taking Wes' suggestion, maybe there is an > opportunity in the "official" distribution distinction. How about a > "certificate of authenticity" which costs the vendors $1 or $2 (or "I donated daemon blood." ;-) > whatever), and shows the customer that their choice of vendors helped > FreeBSD financially. Incidentally, this certificate might also be a > selling point for those twisted individuals that just don't understand > free software :-) Heck, if you're headed that route, why not have different levels of "FreeBSD partners", based on what the CD vendor is willing to give back? Eddy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Phone: +1 (316) 794-8922 Wichita/(Inter)national Phone: +1 (785) 865-5885 Lawrence --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:23:58 +0000 (GMT) From: A Trap To: blacklist@brics.com Subject: Please ignore this portion of my mail signature. These last few lines are a trap for address-harvesting spambots. Do NOT send mail to , or you are likely to be blocked. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 17:18: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alpo.whistle.com (s206m1.whistle.com [207.76.206.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C8D637B403 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 17:18:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark-ml@whistle.com) Received: from [207.76.207.129] ([10.1.10.118]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA97242; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 17:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: mark-ml@207.76.206.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010706232729.J93367@bsd.havk.org> References: <20010706232729.J93367@bsd.havk.org> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 17:17:23 -0700 To: Steve Price , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Mark Peek Subject: Re: FW: gdb debugging tips Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:27 PM -0500 7/6/01, Steve Price wrote: >Not sure if this is hackers@ material but since it is FreeBSD- >related and is probably something people on this can do in their >sleep I'm forwarding this here after no response on chat. > >----- Forwarded message from Steve Price ----- > >I've been having problems with a software package for which I >only have a binary with no debugging symbols. In talking to >the folks that wrote the software I know what arguments the >routine takes I just need to be able to see them in the debugger. >Here's what I've done: > >Fire up the program. Attach to the pid of the running process >with 'gdb lsv 10336'. I've set the breakpoint at the routine >that I'm interested in 'break LH2P' and I've coerced the program >to run to the breakpoint. > >Here's where I'm lost. I'm back in gdb and it is waiting for >me to tell it what to do. I know the function LH2P takes one >argument a 'char *'. How do I view a function's arguments? With >debugging symbols this is as easy as 'where'. I figured >'info args' would be the ticket but all it says is 'No symbol >table info avialable'. Now I'm betting the information from >'info frame' is the key but how to decipher it. Assuming ordinary i386 calling conventions... Usually gdb will stop in a function after it has adjusted the stack frame. You should be able to dump the strings (assuming it is null terminated) with: print *(char **)($ebp+8) In other words, ebp is pointing to the call stack frame. The +8 is needed to skip over the saved registers (ebp and eip which you will see listed in 'info frame') and get to the first argument which you can then dereference. So, for example: # cat > xx.c void func(char *sarg) { } main() { func("hello world\n"); } # cc -O -o xx xx.c # gdb xx GNU gdb 4.18 Copyright 1998 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i386-unknown-freebsd"... (no debugging symbols found)... (gdb) b func Breakpoint 1 at 0x804848f (gdb) run Starting program: xx (no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)... Breakpoint 1, 0x804848f in func () (gdb) print *(char **)($ebp+8) $1 = 0x80484e3 "hello world\n" (gdb) Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 18:40: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web10301.mail.yahoo.com (web10301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 31E1637B403 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 18:39:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from supra87t@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010708013959.16876.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.36.69.28] by web10301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 18:39:59 PDT Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 18:39:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Mohler Subject: best way to migrate to a new disk To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I need to upgrade to a new HD now that the current one has shows some reliability issues..and Im polling for what is the best method to do so. Do not have a tape drive..but if thats the only solution..one could be gained, but Im sure there might be an easier way. Comments? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 18:44:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo.feral.com [192.67.166.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57ADA37B406 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 18:44:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo (mjacob@beppo [192.67.166.79]) by beppo.feral.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f681iGS59304; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 18:44:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 18:44:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Jacob X-Sender: mjacob@beppo Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Jeff Mohler Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: best way to migrate to a new disk In-Reply-To: <20010708013959.16876.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I always newfs a new disk, mount it async on /altroot, and use cd / mkdir -p /altroot/ tar cfl - . | (cd /altroot/ && tar xpf -) I make sure I do a MAKDEV all in /altroot/dev and I make sure I do a disklabel -B on the new disk. It's pretty simple. On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Jeff Mohler wrote: > I need to upgrade to a new HD now that the current one > has shows some reliability issues..and Im polling for > what is the best method to do so. > > Do not have a tape drive..but if thats the only > solution..one could be gained, but Im sure there might > be an easier way. > > Comments? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 20: 1:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (gw.Awfulhak.org [217.204.245.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F69337B409 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 20:01:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6830n400728; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 04:00:55 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@lan.Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6832Kn42932; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 04:02:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200107080302.f6832Kn42932@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Richard Hodges Cc: Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, brian@Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral In-Reply-To: Message from Richard Hodges of "Sat, 07 Jul 2001 15:51:51 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 04:02:20 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Brian Somers wrote: > > > Richard Hodges wrote: > > > And as far as distribution goes, if my vote counts, I would suggest > > > that anyone should have the right to sell (or give away) copies for > > > whatever price they want. The more copies, the better! I fail to > > > see why FreeBSD distribution should be "guided" to certain entities > > > based on their political contributions. > > > FSL have thought quite a bit about this -- what's acceptable as a > > FreeBSD release. We need some sort of balance. On one hand, we (the > > FreeBSD project) want to encourage distributors to produce copies of > > FreeBSD with added-value. On the other hand, we don't want to end up > > with the linux-effect. > > Really? I was hoping to see a new disto with the FreeBSD userland > wrapped around a Linux kernel :-) Or was it the other way around... > > But as far as "added-value" goes, why wouldn't minimum cost be an > added value to a potential customer? I think that the companies > like Cheapbytes serve a social purpose in this regard. I'm not having a go at Cheapbytes. I'm just saying that their CDs should be labeled official or unofficial based on their content. If they want to drop the base ISO image onto a CD and sell it, then they're as official as anybody else. > > So I think the idea of an ``official'' distribution is good, but only > > insofar as that implies that the distribution contains a specific > > base system. Anyone who mucks about with that official base system > > in a way that's not controlled by the user should not be allowed to > > call their distribution ``official''. > > Sure, no argument there. Taking Wes' suggestion, maybe there is an > opportunity in the "official" distribution distinction. How about a > "certificate of authenticity" which costs the vendors $1 or $2 (or > whatever), and shows the customer that their choice of vendors helped > FreeBSD financially. Incidentally, this certificate might also be a > selling point for those twisted individuals that just don't understand > free software :-) Companies that sell CDs shouldn't necessarily be limited in the ways that they can give back to the project. If a company (WRS for example) are forking out lots of money to the FreeBSD project already, why should they have to now send money to the foundation ? Besides, our software is free, it's not shareware. > Thanks for the info, > > -Richard > > ------------------------------------------- > Richard Hodges | Matriplex, inc. > Product Manager | 769 Basque Way > rh@matriplex.com | Carson City, NV 89706 > 775-886-6477 | www.matriplex.com -- Brian http://www.freebsd-services.com/ Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 20:28: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B44C737B401 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 20:28:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f683RHt93816; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 20:27:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net Cc: rh@matriplex.com, brian@Awfulhak.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com Subject: Re: Authentic FreeBSD (Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral) In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010707202716O.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 20:27:16 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 18 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Erm, as much I appreciate all these ideas for charging money for various things, I really doubt that anyone in the FreeBSD project, whether they're on the core team or on the Foundation board of directors, really want to get into the "trademark for money" game or really anything else that involves goods and services. Straight donation-based fundraising works pretty well considering that we don't have all that many things to spend money on anyway and, surprisingly, it's been a constant challenge to find ways of directing funding sources (be they Yahoo! funds or FreeBSD, Inc) money in directions that are genuinely productive and can be somehow metered as such. It's often the case that actually tracking the effectiveness of, say, $500 towards some theoretically worthy cause costs you thousands of dollars in man-hours. Heck, If somebody tried to donate a million bucks to the foundation right now, I'd actually expect the current directors to probably scream and run away. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 20:31:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B3C37B40B for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 20:31:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f683Vct93843; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 20:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: rh@matriplex.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: The Foundation [was Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral] In-Reply-To: References: <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010707203138B.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 20:31:38 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 72 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Richard Hodges Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:30:06 -0700 (PDT) > Could I just ask exactly what the FreeBSD Foundation _is_? Well, I can't speak for it, naturally, since I'm in no way connected with it. I can say that it *appears* to be an evolving organization, however, where those who are connected with it are slowly and cautiously feeling their way forward. What it "is" will therefore depend a lot on when you ask. Right now, it appears to be mostly a filed paperwork and some transitional activity (FreeBSD, Inc RIP, hello Foundation). Once it has accumulated a purse which makes further action even possible, I'm sure we'll hear more about it. > I read the announcement and bylaws, and it looks like it is supposed > to be the offical organization representing FreeBSD. Well, now that you mention it, I'm not sure any organization can truly "officially represent FreeBSD", just as no charity organization truly represents the starving children in Africa ("Hey, where are you going with that food? This is OUR turf missionary boy!"). There can simply be organizations which do various amounts of good, with those doing the most good garnering the most public support (from either "inside" or outside the project). For that matter, the FreeBSD Core team isn't an "official organization" either, it's an elected body of folks who sign no paperwork, belong to no FreeBSD-oriented Corporation, serve on no boards and otherwise have no legal obligation to do anything. This may all seem unforgivably loose to some, but I think it's actually pretty good. Start bringing *real* bureaucracy into the mix and much of the attraction to FreeBSD is a casualty. > So, is the Foundation the heir apparent to whatever passes as the > "official" FreeBSD organization? Or is it just a "West Squirrel > Mountain Area FreeBSD Users Group"? (Not that there's anything > wrong with that...) An interesting set of choices you leave us with, but I'd definitely have to say it seems to lean more towards the latter definition. :) I think I'd prefer to use the Atlanta Linux Group as an example. It was strictly an informal organization of volunteers, but it eventually grew into something so well organized that it had its own annual conference and all sorts of resources. It didn't take Linus Torvalds standing up in public and saying "I like those guys, they're official", it just took a lot of really dedicated volunteers. Their ALS conference eventually got so big that I believe it was handed over to the USENIX organization, but I would take that as a mark of success if anything. > With Walnut Creek out of the picture, will Core continue to coordinate > official releases? Thankfully, that's not a core function or we'd probably only do one a year :-) There are various people in committers that have "hats" to cover these sorts of things, from release engineering to ports management, and it's not something that core deals with. This is also good because "committers" is still the principle driving force behind the project and we should push out as much stuff into that domain as possible. > the Foundation holds the trademark, that implies that the Foundation has > some legal control over the distribution, at least as "FreeBSD". True, though I think that it's always been implict that the Foundation would be tasked more with the job of the trademark's defense against abuse, not licensing it to vendors so that FreeBSD can be on everything from tee-shirts to cigarettes so long as they pay the foundation enough money. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 20:52:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from softweyr.com (softweyr.com [208.247.99.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 188A637B401 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 20:52:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost.softweyr.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=softweyr.com ident=104987a56fd11937d695309f7652d88e) by softweyr.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15J5hP-0000P4-00; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 21:57:35 -0600 Message-ID: <3B47DA2F.D417E048@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 21:57:35 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Hodges Cc: Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Richard Hodges wrote: > > Sure, no argument there. Taking Wes' suggestion, maybe there is an > opportunity in the "official" distribution distinction. How about a > "certificate of authenticity" which costs the vendors $1 or $2 (or > whatever), and shows the customer that their choice of vendors helped > FreeBSD financially. Incidentally, this certificate might also be a > selling point for those twisted individuals that just don't understand > free software :-) Now that's an idea, but it raises problems with shipping the "certificates" across national borders, causing import duties, etc. Maybe if we made the certificates in PostScript or even fig files. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 21:25:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp4ve.mailsrvcs.net (smtp4vepub.gte.net [206.46.170.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA7837B403; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:25:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babkin@bellatlantic.net) Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-198-135-226.nnj.dialup.bellatlantic.net [151.198.135.226]) by smtp4ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA51499357; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 04:24:14 GMT Message-ID: <3B47E06D.32067E46@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 00:24:13 -0400 From: Sergey Babkin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-19990626-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Wemm Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Kris Kennaway , "Louis A. Mamakos" , Jordan Hubbard , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wes@softweyr.com, tedm@toybox.placo.com, ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <20010707081731.952F7380F@overcee.netplex.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Wemm wrote: > > Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > In message <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net>, Sergey Babkin writes: > > > > >If the FreeBSD Foundation is an existing entity now, maybe we > > >can just change the license for the CD images to "not for resale" > > >unless the distributor signs an agreement with the Foundation ? First, I want to say that after Jordan's explanation I agree that this is not a worty idea, at least for now. So the further is just for a more clear explanation. > > Why on _earth_ would we make it so hard for people to get hold > > of a media copy of FreeBSD, when absolutely nothing prevents For example, to help fund the release engineering process. > > me or anybody else from rolling a net distribution ? If buying the rights to the "official" distribution is cheaper, why would anyone want to redo it ? > And if some organization is funding developers to work on FreeBSD full > time, then I personally would go out of my way to help them too, should > they need something. (several spring to mind) > > All this hot air about "protecting" the .iso's is the *least* of our It's not about protecting. It's about financiallly stimulating more organizations to fund developers to work on FreeBSD. The ISO image distribution rights don't have to be exchanged for money, they may just as well (and better) be exchanged for such support. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 21:36:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts13.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2724E37B405 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:36:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matt@gsicomp.on.ca) Received: from xena.gsicomp.on.ca ([64.228.155.124]) by tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20010708043607.KBIZ7196.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@xena.gsicomp.on.ca> for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:36:07 -0400 Received: from hermes (hermes.gsicomp.on.ca [192.168.0.18]) by xena.gsicomp.on.ca (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f684XUA35975 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:33:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from matt@gsicomp.on.ca) Message-ID: <018601c10767$5d70e430$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> From: "Matthew Emmerton" To: References: <3B47DA2F.D417E048@softweyr.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:35:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Richard Hodges wrote: > > > > Sure, no argument there. Taking Wes' suggestion, maybe there is an > > opportunity in the "official" distribution distinction. How about a > > "certificate of authenticity" which costs the vendors $1 or $2 (or > > whatever), and shows the customer that their choice of vendors helped > > FreeBSD financially. Incidentally, this certificate might also be a > > selling point for those twisted individuals that just don't understand > > free software :-) > > Now that's an idea, but it raises problems with shipping the "certificates" > across national borders, causing import duties, etc. Maybe if we made > the certificates in PostScript or even fig files. ;^) I'm not sure how much of a difference the "certificate" would make, as far as import duties goes. I live in Canada (Toronto, Ontario), and accoriding to new rules that came into effect on Jan 1/2001, my CDs (which are considered "computer programs, electronic media") are now subject to 5% duty, 7% GST, 8% provincial tax, plus a $5.00 handling charge by Canada Post. (So much for NAFTA!) So on a USD$30 set of CDs (CAD$45), that works out to be about $15 in taxes and fees due to the classification. I don't see how a "certificate" would change that for the worse. (Well, unless the discs started being shipped via UPS. Then I'd get dinged for a $20 handing fee instead of $5.) For those in Europe or Australia, I'm not sure what the import rules are, but I'm sure they already have to pay some sort of import duties, and I don't see how the inclusion of a certificate would change that for the worse. I do like the idea of a "certificate", but unless it's flashy like MS's, it might not make much of a difference to management. -- Matt Emmerton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 21:56:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp5ve.mailsrvcs.net (smtp5vepub.gte.net [206.46.170.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6289837B405 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:56:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babkin@bellatlantic.net) Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-198-117-223.nnj.dialup.bellatlantic.net [151.198.117.223]) by smtp5ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA25087753; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 04:54:55 GMT Message-ID: <3B47E79D.73B78DC3@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 00:54:53 -0400 From: Sergey Babkin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-19990626-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: Richard Hodges , Brian Somers , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral References: <3B47DA2F.D417E048@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > > Richard Hodges wrote: > > > > Sure, no argument there. Taking Wes' suggestion, maybe there is an > > opportunity in the "official" distribution distinction. How about a > > "certificate of authenticity" which costs the vendors $1 or $2 (or > > whatever), and shows the customer that their choice of vendors helped > > FreeBSD financially. Incidentally, this certificate might also be a > > selling point for those twisted individuals that just don't understand > > free software :-) > > Now that's an idea, but it raises problems with shipping the "certificates" > across national borders, causing import duties, etc. Maybe if we made > the certificates in PostScript or even fig files. ;^) Again, what's wrong with the non-monetary things ? Such as doing (or funding locally) some development that gets contributed to the project. Or you want it in a bureaucratic form ;-) "N engineers for the T period of time working on the issue X". -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 23:26:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8421937B408 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 23:26:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f686Qfg11925; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:26:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f686QeJ76449; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:26:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200107080626.f686QeJ76449@harmony.village.org> To: Jeff Mohler Subject: Re: best way to migrate to a new disk Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jul 2001 18:39:59 PDT." <20010708013959.16876.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010708013959.16876.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 00:26:40 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010708013959.16876.qmail@web10301.mail.yahoo.com> Jeff Mohler writes: : I need to upgrade to a new HD now that the current one : has shows some reliability issues..and Im polling for : what is the best method to do so. buy new disk. install disk disklabel da1 newfs filesystems. mount fs under /da1 for each partion fs on da0: cd /da1/$fs dump 0f - /$fs | restore -rf - tweak /da1/etc/fstab disklabel -B da1 bring the system down Rejumper the da1 to da0 and remove the old da0 Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 7 23:27:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83AF837B409 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 23:27:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f686RHg11932; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:27:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f686RGJ76468; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:27:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200107080627.f686RGJ76468@harmony.village.org> To: mjacob@feral.com Subject: Re: best way to migrate to a new disk Cc: Jeff Mohler , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 07 Jul 2001 18:44:14 PDT." References: Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 00:27:16 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Matthew Jacob writes: : tar cfl - . | (cd /altroot/ && tar xpf -) Don't use tar. It loses devices, can't handle holey files well and a number of other minor clitches. Use dump instead. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message