From owner-freebsd-hubs Sun May 6 14:38:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8422237B422 for ; Sun, 6 May 2001 14:38:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f46LcCM14210 for ; Sun, 6 May 2001 14:38:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BAFE380E; Sun, 6 May 2001 14:38:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: will@physics.purdue.edu Subject: Re: ftp-master method In-Reply-To: <200105041644.f44GiuO54477@vashon.polstra.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 14:38:12 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010506213812.3BAFE380E@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Polstra wrote: > In article <20010502161330.B5017@casimir.physics.purdue.edu>, Will > Andrews wrote: > > > OK, so people have problems with either mirror/spegla+ftp and rsync. > > How about cvsup? > > I've suggested this a few times myself. I haven't heard any arguments > against it, but nobody ever seems to consider it seriously for this > application. It wouldn't be hard to try it and find out how well it > works. > > > It uses the rsync algorithm with some optimizations, > > Well, to be fair, I doubt it compresses quite as well as rsync. > (Rsync is tuned better.) But CVSup probably streams better, and I > wouldn't be surprised if it was faster overall in terms of elapsed > time. One gripe I have with rsync itself is that it seems to build its file lists right from the start and holds them in memory.. It then streams the updates. This means that rsyncd consumes about 50-60MB of ram on the server at all times (for an update). It does its delete pass right at then end, if nothing went wrong. Does cvsupd do better? (ie: transfer the file list incrementally?) One thing does bother me though, is that cvsup tends to ignore files that didn't exist. Having cvsup 'take over' maintainence of an existing (out of date) tree seems likely to leave behind lots of leftovers. You have script to clean this up, right? Or does cvsup have an even stronger "mirror" mode that will get all this stuff? > > although it does hurt when it comes to cpu. > > Hmm -- maybe, maybe not. It uses a lot of CPU for dealing with RCS > files, because it parses them and edits them and generally spends a > lot of time grokking them. The rsync algorithm is much simpler, so > CVSup's CPU usage should be better for that case. The archive has got 5 or 6 checked out trees in it, including several source checkouts, mailing list archives and the ncvs tree. cvsupd can use the checkouts.cvs file to load the metadata for the ,v files quickly, right? (pub/FreeBSD/development/FreeBSD-CVS/*, including a sup/ dir). Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Sun May 6 19:31:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (rtrwan160.accessone.com [206.213.115.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3961237B422 for ; Sun, 6 May 2001 19:31:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@wall.polstra.com) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f472Vs045726; Sun, 6 May 2001 19:31:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@wall.polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.11.3/8.11.0) id f472Vmq62912; Sun, 6 May 2001 19:31:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 19:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200105070231.f472Vmq62912@vashon.polstra.com> To: peter@wemm.org From: John Polstra Cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ftp-master method In-Reply-To: <20010506213812.3BAFE380E@overcee.netplex.com.au> References: <20010506213812.3BAFE380E@overcee.netplex.com.au> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article <20010506213812.3BAFE380E@overcee.netplex.com.au>, Peter Wemm wrote: > > One gripe I have with rsync itself is that it seems to build its file > lists right from the start and holds them in memory.. It then streams > the updates. This means that rsyncd consumes about 50-60MB of ram on the > server at all times (for an update). It does its delete pass right at then > end, if nothing went wrong. > > Does cvsupd do better? (ie: transfer the file list incrementally?) Yes, it does. When doing rsync-style updates it still uses the streaming model shown in the diagram at http://www.polstra.com/projects/freeware/CVSup/howsofast.html Updates for the first files will be coming in while the file list is still streaming out in the other direction. > One thing does bother me though, is that cvsup tends to ignore files > that didn't exist. Having cvsup 'take over' maintainence of an > existing (out of date) tree seems likely to leave behind lots of > leftovers. You're right. I hadn't thought of that problem with respect to the FTP tree. We certainly don't want to make people repopulate their zillion-GB FTP trees. > You have script to clean this up, right? Yes, there is a script "cvsupchk" which does exactly that in the contrib subdirectory of the CVSup distribution (thanks to Joseph Koshy). > Or does cvsup have an even stronger "mirror" mode that will get all > this stuff? Not currently. But this makes it a higher priority. It's not that hard in principle. Hmm ... > The archive has got 5 or 6 checked out trees in it, including > several source checkouts, mailing list archives and the ncvs tree. > cvsupd can use the checkouts.cvs file to load the metadata for the > ,v files quickly, right? (pub/FreeBSD/development/FreeBSD-CVS/*, > including a sup/ dir). Yes, definitely. It will use its RCS file algorithm on RCS files and rsync on other files. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Disappointment is a good sign of basic intelligence." -- Chögyam Trungpa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 3: 4:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from boco.fee.vutbr.cz (boco.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C1BD37B422 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 03:04:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.12]) by boco.fee.vutbr.cz (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f47A4Lc81635 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Mon, 7 May 2001 12:04:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from cejkar@localhost) by kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f47A4Ki53908; Mon, 7 May 2001 12:04:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 12:04:20 +0200 From: Cejka Rudolf To: Peter Wemm Cc: hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp-master method Message-ID: <20010507120419.A42291@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> References: <200105041644.f44GiuO54477@vashon.polstra.com> <20010506213812.3BAFE380E@overcee.netplex.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010506213812.3BAFE380E@overcee.netplex.com.au>; from peter@wemm.org on Sun, May 06, 2001 at 02:38:12PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Peter Wemm wrote (2001/05/06): > One gripe I have with rsync itself is that it seems to build its file > lists right from the start and holds them in memory.. It then streams > the updates. This means that rsyncd consumes about 50-60MB of ram on the > server at all times (for an update). It does its delete pass right at then > end, if nothing went wrong. Hmm, it seems that rsync is still a big memory killer :-( I have tried a dry run from ftp-master and rsync took about 96 MB of RAM (46 MB when syncing and the next 50 MB in deletion phase) for full FreeBSD tree. If I exclude branches, FreeBSD-CVS and mailing-lists, rsync takes about 44 MB of RAM (20 MB + 24 MB). I hope that second rsync process with similar memory requirements just shares memory pages with the first process. If I use mirror and algorithm=1, it could not exceed 10 MB of RAM. It would be great to see similar memory usage with rsync too... However, the big advantage of rsync over ftp method is its speed and I really want to switch to rsync or combine it with ftp. * What does mean symbolic link development/CTM/CTM -> usr/home/ftp/pub/FreeBSD/CTM on rsync://ftp-master.FreeBSD.org/FreeBSD? * It seems that it is not safe to use compression (-z). If I try to rsync ISO-IMAGES directory where any *.iso is missing, it is ok. However, if *.iso is already there, but with different timestamp, time rsync -rltvz ends with this error: receiving file list ... done 4.2-install.iso deflate on token returned 0 (16384 bytes left) unexpected EOF in read_timeout unexpected EOF in read_timeout real 0m42.533s user 0m23.780s sys 0m7.284s rsync -rltv runs well, if I omit one full copy of *.iso file. Any other experiences? Any comments? I can not suggest use of compression. * Many timestamps on ftp-master are very different from timestamps on usw.freebsd.org and on dead ftp.freebsd.org. Dry run rsync log is 6900769 bytes with --modify-window=0 and 4623094 bytes with --modify-window=60 (branches, FreeBSD-CVS and mailing-lists are skipped). What are your future plans about file timestamps on ftp-master? Are you going to sync/change them with {usw,ftp}.freebsd.org or I can rely on them and they are real "master timestams" for now and for the future? I'm asking, because if I run full rsync now, it has to generate big local traffic and I want to avoid these "updates" as much as possible. + It seems to me that combination of ftp and rsync is possible. Timestamps resolution for ftp is 1 minute HH:MM:00 (dir -T looks as very non-standard and unreliable feature) and for rsync it is 1 second HH:MM:SS. Transition rsync -> ftp seems to be very easy and fast if seconds are not taken into account by a mirroring program. Transition ftp -> rsync would generate just small checksum communication and non-critical number of one-time file copies with timestamp fixes. rsync --modify-window=60 would reduce file copying and timestamping at all. + I do not like any automatic deletions, so I have created patched rsync. If --max-delete (hmm, there is an off by one error in rsync...) is exceeded (think about -1), it prints deletion commands only instead of skipping or removing them. After rsync run I can convert log into a script and delete files by hand. This looks well. + I really do not like how rsync works with file permissions, because I can not say "use mode 644 for files and use mode 755 for directories". If I use -p, I have to rely on server side. If I do not use -p, umask is just mask for permissions from server side, so I can force to remove some flags (w for others), but I can not add any permissions (w for user) :-( -- Rudolf Cejka (cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz; http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~cejkar) Brno University of Technology, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 3:24:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from cendrillon.be.oleane.fr (cendrillon.be.oleane.fr [62.161.136.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9D137B424 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 03:24:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jch@cendrillon.be.oleane.fr) Received: (from jch@localhost) by cendrillon.be.oleane.fr (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f478Pdw65131 for hubs@freebsd.org; Mon, 7 May 2001 10:25:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jch) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 10:25:39 +0200 From: Jean-Claude Christophe To: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: BSDfr FreeBSD mirror Message-ID: <20010507102539.H96007@oleane.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi We (BSDfr) make a FreeBSD mirror on our server from 1 year now. Our mirror is now stoped since freesoftware is no longer available. Server: ftp5.fr.freebsd.org (polux.bsdfr.org 195.154.210.137). Can someone make an update of the ACL of ftp-master ? (Sorry for missing the announcement, I was not a member of this ML before) Thanks Best regards, -- Jean-Claude Christophe / jch@oleane.net / France Telecom Transpac To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 8:10:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from boco.fee.vutbr.cz (boco.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F099737B422 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 08:10:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.12]) by boco.fee.vutbr.cz (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f47FAdc56646 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Mon, 7 May 2001 17:10:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from cejkar@localhost) by kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f47FAbk73815; Mon, 7 May 2001 17:10:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 17:10:37 +0200 From: Cejka Rudolf To: Peter Wemm Cc: hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp-master method Message-ID: <20010507171037.A73262@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> References: <200105041644.f44GiuO54477@vashon.polstra.com> <20010506213812.3BAFE380E@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20010507120419.A42291@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507120419.A42291@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz>; from cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:04:20PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Cejka Rudolf wrote (2001/05/07): > * Many timestamps on ftp-master are very different from timestamps > on usw.freebsd.org and on dead ftp.freebsd.org. Dry run rsync log > is 6900769 bytes with --modify-window=0 and 4623094 bytes with > --modify-window=60 (branches, FreeBSD-CVS and mailing-lists are > skipped). Small fix (previous log files contained many files to delete): 3.5 MB with --modify-window=0 and 1.3 MB with --modify-window=60. * What does mean ports/alpha/obrien on ftp-master.freebsd.org/FreeBSD? * It seems that snapshots/alpha/5.0-20000804-CURRENT on ftp-master.freebsd.org/FreeBSD is broken (and out of date). Many subdirectories are empty (bin...) or partial (src). It is good candidate for deletion. -- Rudolf Cejka (cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz; http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~cejkar) Brno University of Technology, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 12:56:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC7437B42C; Mon, 7 May 2001 12:56:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f47Ju4375239; Mon, 7 May 2001 12:56:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: asami@freebsd.org Cc: obrien@freebsd.org, hubs@freebsd.org Subject: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 12:56:04 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 49 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Guys, During the transition to ftp-master from ftp.freesoftware.com, I've been going through our mountain of bits in an effort to clean it up and have run into a number of items which I dare not delete myself but still have to question the value of. Does anyone have any *real* use at any of the following directories? No, let me rephrase that, does anyone absolutely *need* any of the following directories and not just want to keep it around on the premise that some obscure group of religious cultists might someday want it? Programmers are pack-rats by nature, and back when we were happily ensconced on one big super-server where bits and bandwidth were essentially free, it didn't really matter so much and we were free to stick just about any old thing there and assume that only people who wanted it would mirror it. Well, it's a new world and now we're looking at ftp.freebsd.org becoming a set of round-robin DNS entries, something which just isn't going to happen very easily when being a "full and complete archive" requires that you mirror over 56GBytes of cruft. In honor of the tech down-turn, I say it's time we imposed some austerity measures of our own and "right sized" our bits. :-) Anyway, here they are, each with my "justification" in brackets and with each obviously open to interpretation and debate. /archive/pub/FreeBSD/ports/alpha/ packages-4-stable [stale] packages-stable [point to packages-4.3-release?] /archive/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386 packages-2.2-stable [too old] packages-2.2.8 [too old] packages-3-stable [too old] packages-3.0-aout [too old] packages-3.4-release [too old] packages-4.0-release [too old] packages-4.1-release [too old] /archive/pub/FreeBSD/development XF86336-4.1-release.alpha [too old] axp [too old] misc [too old] ports [old and redundant] Comments please, thanks. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 13: 4:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDDCA37B423 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 13:04:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f47K4al11254; Mon, 7 May 2001 13:04:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 13:04:36 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507130436.A11167@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com>; from jkh@osd.bsdi.com on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:56:04PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:56:04PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > /archive/pub/FreeBSD/ports/alpha/ > packages-4-stable [stale] > packages-stable [point to packages-4.3-release?] packages-4.3-release is very incomplete. I am in the process of copying up a new (April) packages-4-stable. Unfortunately I didn't do it in a smart way considering how the disks are now laid out on ftp-master. :-( I have also went thru ports/local-distfiles, and sent off emails to owners where I found a lot of duplicated, old bits, and questionable stuff. > /archive/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386 > packages-2.2-stable [too old] > packages-2.2.8 [too old] > packages-3-stable [too old] > packages-3.0-aout [too old] > packages-3.4-release [too old] > packages-4.0-release [too old] > packages-4.1-release [too old] Can we move these to /pub/archive-FreeBSD/ or something? AFAIK we don't have a space problem on ftp-master, and some sites like ftp7.de.freebsd.org seems to like to carry every FreeBSD bit generated. > /archive/pub/FreeBSD/development > XF86336-4.1-release.alpha [too old] If you don't want to keep it around, I'll rm it ASAP. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 14:19:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from freesbee.wheel.dk (freesbee.wheel.dk [193.162.159.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C581B37B42C; Mon, 7 May 2001 14:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesper@skriver.dk) Received: by freesbee.wheel.dk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B2B165D73; Mon, 7 May 2001 23:19:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 23:19:53 +0200 From: Jesper Skriver To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: asami@freebsd.org, obrien@freebsd.org, hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507231953.A41580@skriver.dk> References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com>; from jkh@osd.bsdi.com on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:56:04PM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B88 9CE8 66E9 E631 C9C5 5EB4 22AB F0EC F956 1C31 X-PGP-Public-Key: http://freesbee.wheel.dk/~jesper/gpgkey.pub Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:56:04PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > Guys, > > During the transition to ftp-master from ftp.freesoftware.com, I've > been going through our mountain of bits in an effort to clean it up I would suggest to remove the following from the ftp server too, it's really better to access the source tree via cvsup, cvsweb, as a .tar.gz or similar methods, and the thousands of files makes it a pain to mirror. pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/ pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/src/ pub/FreeBSD/branches/*/src/ pub/FreeBSD/development/FreeBSD-CVS/ Same goes with the ports pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/ports/ pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/ports/ pub/FreeBSD/branches/*/ports/ And perhaps make a decistion regarding if we should distribute snapshots from ftp.freebsd.org, or only from current.freebsd.org (and then transfer the alpha snapshots there instead of ftp-master). /Jesper -- Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk - CCIE #5456 Work: Network manager @ AS3292 (Tele Danmark DataNetworks) Private: FreeBSD committer @ AS2109 (A much smaller network ;-) One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them, One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 14:28:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F2937B422; Mon, 7 May 2001 14:28:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f47LSEg12208; Mon, 7 May 2001 14:28:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 14:28:13 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Jesper Skriver Cc: hubs@freebsd.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507142813.A12106@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507231953.A41580@skriver.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507231953.A41580@skriver.dk>; from jesper@skriver.dk on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:19:53PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:19:53PM +0200, Jesper Skriver wrote: > I would suggest to remove the following from the ftp server too, it's > really better to access the source tree via cvsup, cvsweb, as a .tar.gz > or similar methods, and the thousands of files makes it a pain to mirror. This makes it pain for people wanting to get our source code to look at for reference or use in non-FreeBSD projects. IMHO CVSweb sucks for anything other than using it as a "one off" ``cvs log''. If one wants all the files to say src/bin/sh, CVSweb is a difficult way to get them. Same for CVSup for non-FreeBSD users. > Same goes with the ports > pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/ports/ > pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/ports/ > pub/FreeBSD/branches/*/ports/ I have to 100% totally disagree here. I point many people to the checked out ports tree to get newer bits. You are thinking as a FreeBSD Power User here who probably runs -current. Not in the mind of a lot of our Linux converts. > And perhaps make a decistion regarding if we should distribute snapshots > from ftp.freebsd.org, or only from current.freebsd.org (and then > transfer the alpha snapshots there instead of ftp-master). Perhaps we should just go out of the FTP distribution business. IMHO it does not seem you really want to be a FTP mirror. I have always kept one usable Alpha -current snapshot on the FTP site. current.freebsd.org isn't mirrored, thus anyone wanting to access it has to do to that one site. Why mirror ftp.freebsd.org at all then? BTW, my experiences for the past several years is that connectivity to current.freebsd.org is less than usable quite often. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) Disclaimer: Not speaking for FreeBSD, just expressing my own opinion. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 14:36:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from casimir.physics.purdue.edu (casimir.physics.purdue.edu [128.210.146.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29FF337B423; Mon, 7 May 2001 14:36:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@physics.purdue.edu) Received: by casimir.physics.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0C0BC1BD20; Mon, 7 May 2001 16:31:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 16:31:19 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: Jordan Hubbard Cc: asami@FreeBSD.ORG, obrien@FreeBSD.ORG, hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507163119.H3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Reply-To: Will Andrews References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com>; from jkh@osd.bsdi.com on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:56:04PM -0700 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.18 sparc64 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:56:04PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > Well, it's a new world and now we're looking at ftp.freebsd.org > becoming a set of round-robin DNS entries, something which just isn't > going to happen very easily when being a "full and complete archive" > requires that you mirror over 56GBytes of cruft. In honor of the tech > down-turn, I say it's time we imposed some austerity measures of our > own and "right sized" our bits. :-) I'd say "about damn time" and I'm sure lots of the ftp mirror admins would too (as I know a number have bothered me about this before :). > /archive/pub/FreeBSD/ports/alpha/ > packages-4-stable [stale] > packages-stable [point to packages-4.3-release?] > > /archive/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386 > packages-2.2-stable [too old] > packages-2.2.8 [too old] > packages-3-stable [too old] > packages-3.0-aout [too old] > packages-3.4-release [too old] > packages-4.0-release [too old] > packages-4.1-release [too old] Yes, I'd say remove all package sets prior to the last two releases, and keep ongoing package sets for -stable and -current. So in essence we would have: /pub/FreeBSD CERT/* (keep) branches/ [2.2-stable: move to /pub/FreeBSD-archive] [3.0-stable: move to /pub/FreeBSD-archive] 4.0-stable -current development/* (minus the bits you mentioned) ports/{i386,alpha}/ [all sets prior to 4.2R moved to /pub/FreeBSD-archive] packages-4-stable packages-5-current ports/{etc..}/* (keep) releases/ [all sets prior to 4.2R moved to /pub/FreeBSD-archive] snapshots/* remove, rely on releng{4,5}.freebsd.org instead.. is there any reason to keep old snaps? tools/* move to /pub/FreeBSD-archive updates/* move to /pub/FreeBSD-archive This should cut down the size of the average mirror to about 10-15GB. When releases are rolled, the bits older than 2 releases should also be moved at the same time the new bits are uploaded. packages-4-stable is only stale because bento hasn't had a place to upload the bits for awhile. If you give Satoshi an account on ftp-master, I'm sure they will be updated. We've always updated the packages-*-* bits about once a week. :) Just some of my thoughts. :) -- wca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 14:46: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from casimir.physics.purdue.edu (casimir.physics.purdue.edu [128.210.146.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6897E37B422; Mon, 7 May 2001 14:46:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@physics.purdue.edu) Received: by casimir.physics.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5D4841BD20; Mon, 7 May 2001 16:41:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 16:41:04 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: David O'Brien Cc: Jesper Skriver , hubs@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507164104.I3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Reply-To: Will Andrews References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507231953.A41580@skriver.dk> <20010507142813.A12106@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <20010507142813.A12106@dragon.nuxi.com>; from obrien@FreeBSD.ORG on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:28:13PM -0700 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.18 sparc64 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:28:13PM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:19:53PM +0200, Jesper Skriver wrote: > > I would suggest to remove the following from the ftp server too, it's > > really better to access the source tree via cvsup, cvsweb, as a .tar.gz > > or similar methods, and the thousands of files makes it a pain to mirror. > > This makes it pain for people wanting to get our source code to look at > for reference or use in non-FreeBSD projects. IMHO CVSweb sucks for > anything other than using it as a "one off" ``cvs log''. If one wants > all the files to say src/bin/sh, CVSweb is a difficult way to get them. > Same for CVSup for non-FreeBSD users. > > > > Same goes with the ports > > pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/ports/ > > pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/ports/ > > pub/FreeBSD/branches/*/ports/ > > I have to 100% totally disagree here. I point many people to the checked > out ports tree to get newer bits. You are thinking as a FreeBSD Power > User here who probably runs -current. Not in the mind of a lot of our > Linux converts. I agree with what David says here. > > And perhaps make a decistion regarding if we should distribute snapshots > > from ftp.freebsd.org, or only from current.freebsd.org (and then > > transfer the alpha snapshots there instead of ftp-master). > > Perhaps we should just go out of the FTP distribution business. IMHO it > does not seem you really want to be a FTP mirror. > > I have always kept one usable Alpha -current snapshot on the FTP site. > current.freebsd.org isn't mirrored, thus anyone wanting to access it has > to do to that one site. Why mirror ftp.freebsd.org at all then? > BTW, my experiences for the past several years is that connectivity to > current.freebsd.org is less than usable quite often. Well, I doubt that many people use the snaps at all. So I think having separate sites for them is an OK idea. Perhaps we should keep a small number of "known working" snaps on the ftp site, I guess. -- wca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 14:46:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 452AD37B422; Mon, 7 May 2001 14:46:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f47LkJa12447; Mon, 7 May 2001 14:46:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 14:46:18 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Will Andrews Cc: Jordan Hubbard , asami@FreeBSD.ORG, hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507144618.A12252@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507163119.H3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507163119.H3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu>; from will@physics.purdue.edu on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 04:31:19PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 04:31:19PM -0500, Will Andrews wrote: > Yes, I'd say remove all package sets prior to the last two releases, and > keep ongoing package sets for -stable and -current. Should we think more carefully about this? We have users that install a release and stick with it for a long time. But they still like to be able to install packages with minimal effort. Do we want to break these case? I guess this is one argument for having `pkg_add -r' use package--stable rather than package-. > snapshots/* > remove, rely on releng{4,5}.freebsd.org instead.. is > there any reason to keep old snaps? If we don't want to mirror one snapshot, then why are we in FTP mirroring business? Does NetBSD send you all over the place to get bits? We laugh at Linux because they do cause you have to have to all over the place for bits. Is diskspace really *that* big of an issue? Should we take up donations for disks? I thought BW was the real issue, and the popularity of certain files, not their size is the issue there. BTW, releng{4,5}.freebsd.org exist because they are the snapshot builders. There was no reason to not offer FTP access to them on the local machine since they were built there. This is not the case with the Alpha snapshots. AFAIK, they were never intended to replace ftp.freebsd.org. JKH has kept a "stable" -current snapshot on ftp.freebsd.org for quite some time. > tools/* > move to /pub/FreeBSD-archive Why?? People need these. Maybe we should discuss just what our purpose in offering an FTP site is for. Is it just to get the latest release bits? -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) Disclaimer: Not speaking for FreeBSD, just expressing my own opinion. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 14:51:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from casimir.physics.purdue.edu (casimir.physics.purdue.edu [128.210.146.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24CD937B422; Mon, 7 May 2001 14:51:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@physics.purdue.edu) Received: by casimir.physics.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 062331BD20; Mon, 7 May 2001 16:46:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 16:46:50 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: David O'Brien Cc: Will Andrews , Jordan Hubbard , asami@FreeBSD.ORG, hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507164650.J3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Reply-To: Will Andrews References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507163119.H3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507144618.A12252@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <20010507144618.A12252@dragon.nuxi.com>; from obrien@FreeBSD.ORG on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:46:18PM -0700 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.18 sparc64 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:46:18PM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 04:31:19PM -0500, Will Andrews wrote: > > Yes, I'd say remove all package sets prior to the last two releases, and > > keep ongoing package sets for -stable and -current. > > Should we think more carefully about this? We have users that install a > release and stick with it for a long time. But they still like to be > able to install packages with minimal effort. Do we want to break these > case? I guess this is one argument for having `pkg_add -r' use > package--stable rather than package-. Yes, but if you move the bits to FreeBSD-archive, they can just reset the prefix of their installs and/or use PACKAGESITE. Moving all the bits corresponding to a specific release will make it painless (should someone want to install an older release, sysinstall won't get confused by missing bits whether it be packages or distributions). > If we don't want to mirror one snapshot, then why are we in FTP mirroring > business? Does NetBSD send you all over the place to get bits? > We laugh at Linux because they do cause you have to have to all over the > place for bits. Is diskspace really *that* big of an issue? Should we > take up donations for disks? I thought BW was the real issue, and the > popularity of certain files, not their size is the issue there. > > BTW, releng{4,5}.freebsd.org exist because they are the snapshot builders. > There was no reason to not offer FTP access to them on the local machine > since they were built there. This is not the case with the Alpha snapshots. > AFAIK, they were never intended to replace ftp.freebsd.org. JKH has kept > a "stable" -current snapshot on ftp.freebsd.org for quite some time. OK. > Why?? People need these. > > Maybe we should discuss just what our purpose in offering an FTP site is > for. Is it just to get the latest release bits? Er.. I didn't say remove them, I said put them in FreeBSD-archive instead. I simply think it's inconvenient for mirror operators to host bits that are not obtained even one-tenth of 1% of the time as the newest releases/packages. Not everyone has 50GB of disk space to dedicate to FreeBSD, and I don't see a reason to expect that. :) -- wca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 14:52: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4071737B422; Mon, 7 May 2001 14:51:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f47Lpqq12510; Mon, 7 May 2001 14:51:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 14:51:52 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Will Andrews Cc: Jesper Skriver , hubs@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507145152.B12252@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507231953.A41580@skriver.dk> <20010507142813.A12106@dragon.nuxi.com> <20010507164104.I3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507164104.I3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu>; from will@physics.purdue.edu on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 04:41:04PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 04:41:04PM -0500, Will Andrews wrote: > > I have always kept one usable Alpha -current snapshot on the FTP site. > > current.freebsd.org isn't mirrored, thus anyone wanting to access it has > > to do to that one site. Why mirror ftp.freebsd.org at all then? > > BTW, my experiences for the past several years is that connectivity to > > current.freebsd.org is less than usable quite often. > > Well, I doubt that many people use the snaps at all. So I think having > separate sites for them is an OK idea. An Alph snap is 180MB. Is diskspace *that* tight? I understand getting rid of cruft when cruft is 50% of /pub/FreeBSD, but clearly useful bits have to go too? I did delete the older of the two Alpha snaps. > Perhaps we should keep a small > number of "known working" snaps on the ftp site, I guess. That *IS* what I've been saying (and doing). :-) -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 14:58:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from piglet.dstc.edu.au (piglet.dstc.edu.au [130.102.176.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BA0237B422 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 14:58:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jason@dstc.edu.au) Received: from azure.dstc.edu.au (azure.dstc.edu.au [130.102.176.27]) by piglet.dstc.edu.au (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f47LwYO28790; Tue, 8 May 2001 07:58:34 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 07:58:35 +1000 (EST) From: jason andrade To: Will Andrews Cc: hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: <20010507164104.I3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 1.0 (http://www.roaringpenguin.com/mimedefang/) Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 7 May 2001, Will Andrews wrote: > > I have always kept one usable Alpha -current snapshot on the FTP site. > > current.freebsd.org isn't mirrored, thus anyone wanting to access it has > > to do to that one site. Why mirror ftp.freebsd.org at all then? > > BTW, my experiences for the past several years is that connectivity to > > current.freebsd.org is less than usable quite often. > > Well, I doubt that many people use the snaps at all. So I think having > separate sites for them is an OK idea. Perhaps we should keep a small > number of "known working" snaps on the ftp site, I guess. i also doubt many people use the snapshots. from observation, they either checkout stuff via cvsup and make world, or else they use the RCs when that is publicised. the freebsd model of RCs was quite different this time around, from most of the other distros in that it was a relatively short period between going from RC1 -> RC5 -> release.. this meant except for the `main' archive, most mirrors i was trying to rsync from weren't catching up and a lot of users i talked to either didn't download a RC, or preferred to avoid all of this and just use cvsup to update instead. if snapshots are being distributed then IMHO this needs to be according to a well publicizied system: o limit the snapshots to only one releases per arch o don't ever have 600M iso files in any snapshots (unless we can think of some sensible way to avoid redownloading 600M each time this changes) o don't create any package trees within snapshots o ideally, have /snapshots/i386/4.X-snapshot etc.. and symlink 4.X-DATE to it to help rsync users not have to have the whole thing deleted and then refetched because the name of the root directory has changed, even if all the filenames are still the same within it. cheers, -jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 15: 0:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1541337B422; Mon, 7 May 2001 15:00:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f47M06N12696; Mon, 7 May 2001 15:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 15:00:06 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Will Andrews Cc: Jordan Hubbard , asami@FreeBSD.ORG, hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507150006.C12252@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507163119.H3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507144618.A12252@dragon.nuxi.com> <20010507164650.J3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507164650.J3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu>; from will@physics.purdue.edu on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 04:46:50PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 04:46:50PM -0500, Will Andrews wrote: > > Should we think more carefully about this? We have users that install a > > release and stick with it for a long time. But they still like to be > > able to install packages with minimal effort. Do we want to break these > > case? I guess this is one argument for having `pkg_add -r' use > > package--stable rather than package-. > > Yes, but if you move the bits to FreeBSD-archive, they can just reset > the prefix of their installs and/or use PACKAGESITE. You have a lot of faith in our users. I don't participate in questions@freebsd.org, so I do what I can to avoid having to send people there. I don't care about moving say 4.1-R packages to somewhere very hard to find as I don't have any 4.1-R hosts anymore, but I do know people that do. I brought this up with the hopes that we will stop and take a moment to thing about the ramifications. That's all. > Er.. I didn't say remove them, I said put them in FreeBSD-archive > instead. Er, no one will mirror them from FreeBSD-archive. So where will they get them from? ftp-master.freebsd.org is not for user consumption. > I simply think it's inconvenient for mirror operators to host bits that > are not obtained even one-tenth of 1% of the time as the newest > releases/packages. Not everyone has 50GB of disk space to dedicate > to FreeBSD, and I don't see a reason to expect that. :) If it is truly just a disk space issue, we should investigate if we can get subsidized disks for well-connected mirrors. Heck, 50GB is a typical personal MP3 collection. BW is really the issue, what is expensive, and what we lack. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) Disclaimer: Not speaking for FreeBSD, just expressing my own opinion. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 15: 1:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from freesbee.wheel.dk (freesbee.wheel.dk [193.162.159.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB4E37B422; Mon, 7 May 2001 15:01:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesper@skriver.dk) Received: by freesbee.wheel.dk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 118175D60; Tue, 8 May 2001 00:01:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 00:01:56 +0200 From: Jesper Skriver To: David O'Brien Cc: hubs@freebsd.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010508000155.D42208@skriver.dk> References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507231953.A41580@skriver.dk> <20010507142813.A12106@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507142813.A12106@dragon.nuxi.com>; from obrien@freebsd.org on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:28:13PM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B88 9CE8 66E9 E631 C9C5 5EB4 22AB F0EC F956 1C31 X-PGP-Public-Key: http://freesbee.wheel.dk/~jesper/gpgkey.pub Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:28:13PM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:19:53PM +0200, Jesper Skriver wrote: > > I would suggest to remove the following from the ftp server too, it's > > really better to access the source tree via cvsup, cvsweb, as a .tar.gz > > or similar methods, and the thousands of files makes it a pain to mirror. > > This makes it pain for people wanting to get our source code to look at > for reference or use in non-FreeBSD projects. IMHO CVSweb sucks for > anything other than using it as a "one off" ``cvs log''. If one wants > all the files to say src/bin/sh, CVSweb is a difficult way to get them. > Same for CVSup for non-FreeBSD users. > > > Same goes with the ports > > pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/ports/ > > pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/ports/ > > pub/FreeBSD/branches/*/ports/ > > I have to 100% totally disagree here. I point many people to the checked > out ports tree to get newer bits. You are thinking as a FreeBSD Power > User here who probably runs -current. Not in the mind of a lot of our > Linux converts. You're probably right, but I havn't seen anyone downloading any of those files from ftp.dk.FreeBSD.org in the last weeks ... > > And perhaps make a decistion regarding if we should distribute snapshots > > from ftp.freebsd.org, or only from current.freebsd.org (and then > > transfer the alpha snapshots there instead of ftp-master). > > Perhaps we should just go out of the FTP distribution business. IMHO it > does not seem you really want to be a FTP mirror. No need to be agressive, as I said on IRC, I'll mirror whatever is on ftp-master, but I was just trying to make a suggesion. > I have always kept one usable Alpha -current snapshot on the FTP site. > current.freebsd.org isn't mirrored, thus anyone wanting to access it has > to do to that one site. I don't have anything against the alpha snapshots being there, but then I'd suggest keeping i386 snaps there too, so we won't confuse our users. /Jesper -- Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk - CCIE #5456 Work: Network manager @ AS3292 (Tele Danmark DataNetworks) Private: FreeBSD committer @ AS2109 (A much smaller network ;-) One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them, One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 15: 7:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from casimir.physics.purdue.edu (casimir.physics.purdue.edu [128.210.146.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110F037B423; Mon, 7 May 2001 15:07:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@physics.purdue.edu) Received: by casimir.physics.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D2E581BD20; Mon, 7 May 2001 17:02:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 17:02:42 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: David O'Brien Cc: Will Andrews , Jordan Hubbard , asami@FreeBSD.ORG, hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507170242.K3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Reply-To: Will Andrews References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507163119.H3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507144618.A12252@dragon.nuxi.com> <20010507164650.J3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507150006.C12252@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <20010507150006.C12252@dragon.nuxi.com>; from obrien@FreeBSD.ORG on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:00:06PM -0700 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.18 sparc64 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:00:06PM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > You have a lot of faith in our users. I don't participate in > questions@freebsd.org, so I do what I can to avoid having to send people > there. I don't care about moving say 4.1-R packages to somewhere very > hard to find as I don't have any 4.1-R hosts anymore, but I do know > people that do. I brought this up with the hopes that we will stop and > take a moment to thing about the ramifications. That's all. Yeah, I guess I do. > Er, no one will mirror them from FreeBSD-archive. So where will they get > them from? ftp-master.freebsd.org is not for user consumption. ftp.freebsd.org? That's the default site too. :) Perhaps a symlink to older package sets would be enough? Not sure how rsync/ftp handles symlinks. > If it is truly just a disk space issue, we should investigate if we can > get subsidized disks for well-connected mirrors. > Heck, 50GB is a typical personal MP3 collection. > > BW is really the issue, what is expensive, and what we lack. Yup, but space is also an issue and should not be ignored. Sites that mirror FreeBSD are likely to mirror other software archives. There's no reason to force the mirror operator to decide between RedHat and FreeBSD, for example. Reducing the overall size of the archive would also reduce the time to update a mirror, as well as the bandwidth needed for such activity. > Disclaimer: Not speaking for FreeBSD, just expressing my own opinion. Same. -- wca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 15: 7:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from freesbee.wheel.dk (freesbee.wheel.dk [193.162.159.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76B8E37B423; Mon, 7 May 2001 15:07:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesper@skriver.dk) Received: by freesbee.wheel.dk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B6B765D73; Tue, 8 May 2001 00:08:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 00:08:14 +0200 From: Jesper Skriver To: David O'Brien Cc: Will Andrews , Jordan Hubbard , asami@FreeBSD.ORG, hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010508000814.E42208@skriver.dk> References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507163119.H3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507144618.A12252@dragon.nuxi.com> <20010507164650.J3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507150006.C12252@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507150006.C12252@dragon.nuxi.com>; from obrien@FreeBSD.ORG on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:00:06PM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B88 9CE8 66E9 E631 C9C5 5EB4 22AB F0EC F956 1C31 X-PGP-Public-Key: http://freesbee.wheel.dk/~jesper/gpgkey.pub Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:00:06PM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > > I simply think it's inconvenient for mirror operators to host bits that > > are not obtained even one-tenth of 1% of the time as the newest > > releases/packages. Not everyone has 50GB of disk space to dedicate > > to FreeBSD, and I don't see a reason to expect that. :) > > If it is truly just a disk space issue, we should investigate if we can > get subsidized disks for well-connected mirrors. > Heck, 50GB is a typical personal MP3 collection. A single cheap XX GB IDE drive won't work in a busy ftp mirror, I know ftp.dk.FreeBSD.org which have a relative expensive HW RAID0+1 SCSI disk array of 18 GB 10k rpm SCSI drives was quite busy in the days after 4.3-RELEASE ... But still, ~50 GB shouldn't be a problem, but I think we should decide on "upper limit" on disk space, so that people can plan on having that amount of disk space, and don't have to worry about running out of disk space when the next release (or snapshot or distfile update, or ...) comes on ftp-master ... /Jesper -- Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk - CCIE #5456 Work: Network manager @ AS3292 (Tele Danmark DataNetworks) Private: FreeBSD committer @ AS2109 (A much smaller network ;-) One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them, One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 15: 8:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D179037B423 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 15:08:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA16585 for hubs@freebsd.org; Mon, 7 May 2001 18:08:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Smith Message-Id: <200105072208.SAA16585@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master To: hubs@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:08:30 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <20010507164650.J3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> from "Will Andrews" at May 07, 2001 04:46:50 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 7 17:51:53 2001 > To: "David O'Brien" > Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master > > I simply think it's inconvenient for mirror operators to host bits that > are not obtained even one-tenth of 1% of the time as the newest > releases/packages. Not everyone has 50GB of disk space to dedicate > to FreeBSD, and I don't see a reason to expect that. :) > There is another advantage as well. Even if I've got 50Gb of disk space to contribute to the cause I can set up mirroring of the primary tree every night and the [painful] archive section weekly if there is a clean separation between the two. IMO deciding the purpose of the FTP site before deciding what goes in it seems wise. I'd propose there actually be two purposes. Primary purpose is supporting people interested in the current stuff, secondary purpose is archival. Perhaps as a starting point: - supports FTP-based install procedure for two (frozen) releases - ports installation for same - support for -stable and -current - easy access to some set of current source files, perhaps as "single tarballs" analogous to snapshots (don't break up the tar files to make them easier to understand for novice) - support tools The rest moves to an archive area and/or available only via CVSup. ken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 15:13:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 406CD37B424; Mon, 7 May 2001 15:13:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f47MDL512813; Mon, 7 May 2001 15:13:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 15:13:21 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Will Andrews Cc: Jordan Hubbard , asami@FreeBSD.ORG, hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507151321.A12712@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507163119.H3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507144618.A12252@dragon.nuxi.com> <20010507164650.J3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507150006.C12252@dragon.nuxi.com> <20010507170242.K3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507170242.K3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu>; from will@physics.purdue.edu on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 05:02:42PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 05:02:42PM -0500, Will Andrews wrote: > > Er, no one will mirror them from FreeBSD-archive. So where will they get > > them from? ftp-master.freebsd.org is not for user consumption. > > ftp.freebsd.org? That's the default site too. :) Perhaps I am out of touch... isn't ftp.freebsd.org going to be a rotating CNAME to ftp*.freebsd.org (verified full mirrors of /pub/FreeBSD)? Thus how is the common person going to get pub/FreeBSD-Archive? I assume there will be a small number of sites that will mirror every FreeBSD bit offered, but from the feedback of late, I don't think most main-line mirrors will. > > If it is truly just a disk space issue, we should investigate if we can > > get subsidized disks for well-connected mirrors. > > Heck, 50GB is a typical personal MP3 collection. > > > > BW is really the issue, what is expensive, and what we lack. > > Yup, but space is also an issue and should not be ignored. Yes, to a point. > Sites that > mirror FreeBSD are likely to mirror other software archives. There's no > reason to force the mirror operator to decide between RedHat and > FreeBSD, for example. As I said, maybe we need to consider subsidizing disk space if that is the only reason someone would not mirror us [and has *FAT* pipes]. $$ disk <<< $$ BW. > Reducing the overall size of the archive would also reduce the time to > update a mirror, as well as the bandwidth needed for such activity. When the content changes. If the content is fairly static (as is the case with proven snapshots and packages for older releases), then his is just a start up cost. I don't think we are bringing on 10 new mirrors / day. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 15:18:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com (sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com [209.247.77.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EDB537B42C for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 15:18:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@bluemtn.net) Received: from localhost (gordont@localhost) by sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com (8.11.3/8.11.2/BMA1.1) with ESMTP id f47MG8604257; Mon, 7 May 2001 15:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 15:16:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow X-X-Sender: To: Ken Smith Cc: Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: <200105072208.SAA16585@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Disclaimer: I don't run a FreeBSD mirror. With corporate 'right-sizing' (I hate that term), my aspirations of running a mirror got shot when our bw was cut. Ah well. On Mon, 7 May 2001, Ken Smith wrote: > > From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 7 17:51:53 2001 > > > > I simply think it's inconvenient for mirror operators to host bits that > > are not obtained even one-tenth of 1% of the time as the newest > > releases/packages. Not everyone has 50GB of disk space to dedicate > > to FreeBSD, and I don't see a reason to expect that. :) > > > > There is another advantage as well. Even if I've got 50Gb of disk > space to contribute to the cause I can set up mirroring of the primary > tree every night and the [painful] archive section weekly if there is > a clean separation between the two. I think this is the best solution. I like the idea of a front-line, this is where we get the latest and greatest set of servers. Then we could make something like archive.freebsd.org that would be much lower bandwidth that mirrors the /pub/FreeBSD-archive set. The advantage is most people will want to use the front-line ftp.freebsd.org. And for that you need about 10-15GB of fast disks while the archive would need probably about 50GB, but could use much slower disk since it won't be in such high demand. Thoughts? -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 15:25:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from basm.cerias.purdue.edu (basm.cerias.purdue.edu [128.10.243.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 242B937B422 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 15:25:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from raj@cerias.purdue.edu) Received: (from raj@localhost) by basm.cerias.purdue.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id RAA11004 for hubs@freebsd.org; Mon, 7 May 2001 17:25:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 17:25:48 -0500 From: Brian Poole To: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507172547.B27129@basm.cerias.purdue.edu> References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507163119.H3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507144618.A12252@dragon.nuxi.com> <20010507164650.J3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507150006.C12252@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20010507150006.C12252@dragon.nuxi.com>; from obrien@FreeBSD.ORG on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:00:06PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoting David O'Brien (obrien@FreeBSD.ORG) from 7 May 2001: > > Yes, but if you move the bits to FreeBSD-archive, they can just reset > > the prefix of their installs and/or use PACKAGESITE. > You have a lot of faith in our users. I don't participate in > questions@freebsd.org, so I do what I can to avoid having to send people > there. I don't care about moving say 4.1-R packages to somewhere very > hard to find as I don't have any 4.1-R hosts anymore, but I do know > people that do. I brought this up with the hopes that we will stop and > take a moment to thing about the ramifications. That's all. I'm going to try and stay out of this (deciding exactly what should be culled) because I am not one to have an informed opinion on what is needed, what is easily swapped in & out, etc. I will say this, I think the FreeBSD directory is too big and some things should be cut. I was one of the people whining for a long while about the archive being too big and I'm grateful the issue is finally being addressed. > > I simply think it's inconvenient for mirror operators to host bits that > > are not obtained even one-tenth of 1% of the time as the newest > > releases/packages. Not everyone has 50GB of disk space to dedicate > > to FreeBSD, and I don't see a reason to expect that. :) > > If it is truly just a disk space issue, we should investigate if we can > get subsidized disks for well-connected mirrors. > Heck, 50GB is a typical personal MP3 collection. There -is- a disk space issue in that there is a limited disk space X that any given FTP site has (whether it be 60G, 120G, 200G, whatever) and there are lots of things that can fill that space. By demanding 50G you are demanding a very large portion of the disk space available for all projects. That sucks. Please remember this is a volunteer effort. I have 120G on my archive and I do slowly expand it as permitted, but you have to realize that providing a free mirror is not going to be on the top 10 list to spend money on for most organizations. So, yes, perhaps it is only 300$ for a cheap 80G IDE drive, but that 300$ is going towards research, staff, etc. I feel it is very rude towards mirror operators to just assume that we all have unlimited cash flow and can continue buying drives so that a little bit of organizing and effort is not needed. We desperately need to decide where old bits should go, -when- they should go, etc and I think we need to do it soon as possible. If we don't, imagine a few more releases down the line, the directory will just keep expanding, becoming even more unmanageable and more of a burden to mirrors. This is no good. Another consideration on top of the 50G being unreasonable in terms of diskspace is how it is complicating the mirroring process. 50G is a TON of files, and having to actively sync all of that is pretty intensive on the machines involved. I don't have enough memory to be throwing at these rsync's all the time, so I don't particurally appreciate having 50Gs of files that need to be synced. > BW is really the issue, what is expensive, and what we lack. BW is -another- issue and just as important, but you must take the size of the archive into account (which it honestly feels like you are disregarding with the argument that disk space is cheap). Enough ranting for the moment, apologies if this comes out a bit offensive, but this has been a thorn in my side for a while. My ultimate goal is the same as everyone's, to make this whole mirror business better and easier. -b To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 15:31:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from valu.uninet.ee (valu.uninet.ee [194.204.34.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 607F037B423 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 15:31:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from taavi@uninet.ee) Received: by valu.uninet.ee (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 83D4B3641F; Tue, 8 May 2001 00:31:18 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by valu.uninet.ee (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D5932619; Tue, 8 May 2001 00:31:18 +0200 (EET) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 00:31:18 +0200 (EET) From: Taavi Talvik To: Ken Smith Cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: <200105072208.SAA16585@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 7 May 2001, Ken Smith wrote: > > From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 7 17:51:53 2001 > > To: "David O'Brien" > > Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master > > > > I simply think it's inconvenient for mirror operators to host bits that > > are not obtained even one-tenth of 1% of the time as the newest > > releases/packages. Not everyone has 50GB of disk space to dedicate > > to FreeBSD, and I don't see a reason to expect that. :) > > > > There is another advantage as well. Even if I've got 50Gb of disk > space to contribute to the cause I can set up mirroring of the primary > tree every night and the [painful] archive section weekly if there is > a clean separation between the two. It is not only a disk space issue. It is more management issue. Considering current tools for keeping up to date ftp mirrors, keeping up with changes on current "ftp-master" is almost impossible. If I don't have infinite bandwidth and can't put infinite load on master sites, I have to mirror some usefull subset most users. > IMO deciding the purpose of the FTP site before deciding what goes in > it seems wise. I'd propose there actually be two purposes. Primary > purpose is supporting people interested in the current stuff, > secondary purpose is archival. Perhaps as a starting point: > > - supports FTP-based install procedure for two (frozen) releases > - ports installation for same > - support for -stable and -current > - easy access to some set of current source files, perhaps as > "single tarballs" analogous to snapshots (don't break up the > tar files to make them easier to understand for novice) > - support tools If there is clean separation between usefull subset (providing installation, packages) as in above. The rest can be mirrored with other tools - current sources with cvsup, some pieces not mirrored (daily snapshots, distfiles, local-distfiles) or mirrored with different schedule. Honestly, there is no interest for daily Alpha snapshots in Estonia, we have maybe total 50 alpha machines at all:) best regards, taavi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 16: 4:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4034C37B423; Mon, 7 May 2001 16:04:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.3/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f47N41375983; Mon, 7 May 2001 16:04:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@osd.bsdi.com) To: jesper@skriver.dk Cc: asami@FreeBSD.ORG, obrien@FreeBSD.ORG, hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: <20010507231953.A41580@skriver.dk> References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507231953.A41580@skriver.dk> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010507160401T.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 16:04:01 -0700 From: Jordan Hubbard X-Dispatcher: imput version 20000228(IM140) Lines: 46 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hmmm. This is a bit more contraversial than I really wanted to get for a first pass. :) - Jordan From: Jesper Skriver Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 23:19:53 +0200 > On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:56:04PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > Guys, > > > > During the transition to ftp-master from ftp.freesoftware.com, I've > > been going through our mountain of bits in an effort to clean it up > > I would suggest to remove the following from the ftp server too, it's > really better to access the source tree via cvsup, cvsweb, as a .tar.gz > or similar methods, and the thousands of files makes it a pain to mirror. > > pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/ > pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/src/ > pub/FreeBSD/branches/*/src/ > pub/FreeBSD/development/FreeBSD-CVS/ > > Same goes with the ports > > pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/ports/ > pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/ports/ > pub/FreeBSD/branches/*/ports/ > > And perhaps make a decistion regarding if we should distribute snapshots > from ftp.freebsd.org, or only from current.freebsd.org (and then > transfer the alpha snapshots there instead of ftp-master). > > /Jesper > > -- > Jesper Skriver, jesper(at)skriver(dot)dk - CCIE #5456 > Work: Network manager @ AS3292 (Tele Danmark DataNetworks) > Private: FreeBSD committer @ AS2109 (A much smaller network ;-) > > One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them, > One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 18: 1:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from piglet.dstc.edu.au (piglet.dstc.edu.au [130.102.176.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18D1237B423 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 18:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jason@dstc.edu.au) Received: from azure.dstc.edu.au (azure.dstc.edu.au [130.102.176.27]) by piglet.dstc.edu.au (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4810VO16121; Tue, 8 May 2001 11:00:31 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:00:32 +1000 (EST) From: jason andrade To: Dan Langille Cc: hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 1.0 (http://www.roaringpenguin.com/mimedefang/) Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 8 May 2001, Dan Langille wrote: > By snapshots, are we only referring to Alpha snapshots? If so, please > ignore the rest of my message. > > I know that the i386 snapshots are very useful. Rather than install > -release, you can install a snapshot and avoid the cvsup, build world, > etc. That capabaility is very useful for newbies. i guess i was referring to both. IMHO newbies tend to stay with releases rather than install snapshots (even for i386). perhaps what would be useful here is a post of dir.sizes limited to perhaps 3 levels (?). or are people getting tired of discussing this ? personally i'm finding it good to get a feel for what other mirror admins out there want to / can actually carry. yes, 50G+ is unmaintainable for us with the current layout - it might not be with some structural and mirror friendly changes (ftp master was a good first step). while i like to think of a 10-15G freebsd archive, i simply can't see it happening, when just packages-4.3-release for i386 is 4G. it doesn't seem plausible to have less than 30G in the archive now, and over 12 months it can only grow more - if some steps are taken now to realise that the disk growth is going to happen it might be possible to deal with it in a sane manner. -jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 19: 8:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from lists.unixathome.org (lists.unixathome.org [210.48.103.158]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AB6E37B423 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 19:08:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lists.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f480miA83872; Tue, 8 May 2001 12:48:44 +1200 (NZST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 12:48:44 +1200 (NZST) From: Dan Langille X-Sender: dan@lists.unixathome.org To: jason andrade Cc: hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 8 May 2001, jason andrade wrote: > On Mon, 7 May 2001, Will Andrews wrote: > > > > I have always kept one usable Alpha -current snapshot on the FTP site. > > > current.freebsd.org isn't mirrored, thus anyone wanting to access it has > > > to do to that one site. Why mirror ftp.freebsd.org at all then? > > > BTW, my experiences for the past several years is that connectivity to > > > current.freebsd.org is less than usable quite often. > > > > Well, I doubt that many people use the snaps at all. So I think having > > separate sites for them is an OK idea. Perhaps we should keep a small > > number of "known working" snaps on the ftp site, I guess. > > i also doubt many people use the snapshots. from observation, they either > checkout stuff via cvsup and make world, or else they use the RCs when that > is publicised. By snapshots, are we only referring to Alpha snapshots? If so, please ignore the rest of my message. I know that the i386 snapshots are very useful. Rather than install -release, you can install a snapshot and avoid the cvsup, build world, etc. That capabaility is very useful for newbies. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Mon May 7 22:22:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from stinky.ca.360networks.net (stinky.ca.360networks.net [64.251.100.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C54B337B42C for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 22:22:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mmayo@360networks.net) Received: by stinky.ca.360networks.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6F4EA60E01; Mon, 7 May 2001 22:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 22:22:03 -0700 From: Mark Mayo To: Dan Langille Cc: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010507222203.A98059@360networks.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from dan@langille.org on Tue, May 08, 2001 at 12:48:44PM +1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 12:48:44PM +1200, Dan Langille wrote: > On Tue, 8 May 2001, jason andrade wrote: > > On Mon, 7 May 2001, Will Andrews wrote: > > > > > > I have always kept one usable Alpha -current snapshot on the FTP site. > > > > current.freebsd.org isn't mirrored, thus anyone wanting to access it has > > > > to do to that one site. Why mirror ftp.freebsd.org at all then? > > > > BTW, my experiences for the past several years is that connectivity to > > > > current.freebsd.org is less than usable quite often. > > > > > > Well, I doubt that many people use the snaps at all. So I think having > > > separate sites for them is an OK idea. Perhaps we should keep a small > > > number of "known working" snaps on the ftp site, I guess. > > > > i also doubt many people use the snapshots. from observation, they either > > checkout stuff via cvsup and make world, or else they use the RCs when that > > is publicised. > > I know that the i386 snapshots are very useful. Rather than install > -release, you can install a snapshot and avoid the cvsup, build world, > etc. That capabaility is very useful for newbies. I know that I personally install FreeBSD from releng4 just about every install. Most people I know do the same. It makes it easy to track -STABLE, which is one of the main reasons I've continued to use FreeBSD over the years. I don't know if it's reasonable for all the FTP mirrors to grab nightly snapshots, however, each time something like releng4 (or ftp-master, or whatever) generates them. Did anybody keep stats on releng4 to gauge how popular the service was? Perhaps agreeing that the FTP mirrors will pick up the latest -STABLE snapshot once a week would be worthwile. Somehow I doubt people use the -CURRENT snapshots to the same extent, but I can't really comment since I generally only use -STABLE.. -Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Tue May 8 1:52:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from mother.ludd.luth.se (mother.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDDF237B422; Tue, 8 May 2001 01:52:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from johan@ludd.luth.se) Received: from brother.ludd.luth.se (brother.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.78]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22405; Tue, 8 May 2001 10:48:28 +0200 (MEST) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 10:48:25 +0200 (MEST) From: Johan Larsson To: Jesper Skriver Cc: "David O'Brien" , Will Andrews , Jordan Hubbard , , Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: <20010508000814.E42208@skriver.dk> Message-ID: X-uri: http://www.ludd.luth.se/users/johan/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 8 May 2001, Jesper Skriver wrote: > On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:00:06PM -0700, David O'Brien wrote: > > > > I simply think it's inconvenient for mirror operators to host bits that > > > are not obtained even one-tenth of 1% of the time as the newest > > > releases/packages. Not everyone has 50GB of disk space to dedicate > > > to FreeBSD, and I don't see a reason to expect that. :) > > > > If it is truly just a disk space issue, we should investigate if we can > > get subsidized disks for well-connected mirrors. > > Heck, 50GB is a typical personal MP3 collection. > > A single cheap XX GB IDE drive won't work in a busy ftp mirror, I know > ftp.dk.FreeBSD.org which have a relative expensive HW RAID0+1 SCSI disk > array of 18 GB 10k rpm SCSI drives was quite busy in the days after > 4.3-RELEASE ... IDE, what's that? :-) I also think that alot of mirrors are (computer) societys with limited moneyresources. We at Ludd have a lot of bandwidth, but diskspace is always a problem. > But still, ~50 GB shouldn't be a problem, but I think we should decide > on "upper limit" on disk space, so that people can plan on having that > amount of disk space, and don't have to worry about running out of disk > space when the next release (or snapshot or distfile update, or ...) > comes on ftp-master ... I couldn't agree more. For us the biggest problem has been to make sure the disk doesn't get full. We now have 64GB for FreeBSD, so hopefully it will be sufficient for some time :) But if an upper limit for a _complete_ official mirror is decided i think we have gained alot. This way people always know what they need to get started and actually be around for a while. 50GB might be a good idea. And then we can have an /FreeBSD-Archive for old releases, packages etc for mirrors that have the disk capacity to mirror that too. Johan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Tue May 8 4: 3:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from boco.fee.vutbr.cz (boco.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA4F37B422 for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 04:03:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.12]) by boco.fee.vutbr.cz (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f48B3pc70287 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Tue, 8 May 2001 13:03:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from cejkar@localhost) by kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f48B3pW95451; Tue, 8 May 2001 13:03:51 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:03:51 +0200 From: Cejka Rudolf To: Taavi Talvik Cc: Ken Smith , hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010508130351.A94054@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> References: <200105072208.SAA16585@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from taavi@uninet.ee on Tue, May 08, 2001 at 12:31:18AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Taavi Talvik wrote (2001/05/08): > It is not only a disk space issue. It is more management > issue. Considering current tools for keeping up to date ftp mirrors, > keeping up with changes on current "ftp-master" is almost impossible. I agree. For example, I'm switching from ftp/cvsup to rsync/cvsup right now and I'm again looking in directories doc/mailing-lists, development/FreeBSD-CVS and branches, where I'm separating stuff for rsync (branches/2.2-stable/commerce?, branches/2.2-stable/xpermint?) and for cvsup... -- Rudolf Cejka (cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz; http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~cejkar) Brno University of Technology, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Tue May 8 4:36:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from boco.fee.vutbr.cz (boco.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA77F37B422; Tue, 8 May 2001 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.12]) by boco.fee.vutbr.cz (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f48BaSc77060 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Tue, 8 May 2001 13:36:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from cejkar@localhost) by kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f48BaSM96908; Tue, 8 May 2001 13:36:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:36:28 +0200 From: Cejka Rudolf To: Johan Larsson Cc: Jesper Skriver , "David O'Brien" , Will Andrews , Jordan Hubbard , asami@FreeBSD.ORG, hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010508133628.B94054@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> References: <20010508000814.E42208@skriver.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from johan@ludd.luth.se on Tue, May 08, 2001 at 10:48:25AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Johan Larsson wrote (2001/05/08): > On Tue, 8 May 2001, Jesper Skriver wrote: > > A single cheap XX GB IDE drive won't work in a busy ftp mirror, I know > > ftp.dk.FreeBSD.org which have a relative expensive HW RAID0+1 SCSI disk > > array of 18 GB 10k rpm SCSI drives was quite busy in the days after > > 4.3-RELEASE ... > IDE, what's that? :-) I also think that alot of mirrors are (computer) > societys with limited moneyresources. We at Ludd have a lot of bandwidth, > but diskspace is always a problem. :-) We have one 75 GB IDE disk for FreeBSD stuff in FreeBSD.cz and it looks usable. We had another tight place in days after 4.3-RELEASE: Auto-negotiated half-duplex from server to switch :-) and there were some configuration issues on TEN site. Both are fixed now, I hope. > > But still, ~50 GB shouldn't be a problem, but I think we should decide > > on "upper limit" on disk space, so that people can plan on having that > > amount of disk space, and don't have to worry about running out of disk > > space when the next release (or snapshot or distfile update, or ...) > > comes on ftp-master ... > I couldn't agree more. For us the biggest problem has been to make sure > the disk doesn't get full. We now have 64GB for FreeBSD, so hopefully > it will be sufficient for some time :) I have to agree too. Any reasonable upper limit on disk space (with seldom updates) would be great thing. We can have almost as much disk space as we need. However, we need to plan this disk space demand sufficiently in time (on order of months up to one year) to accomplish necessary steps. -- Rudolf Cejka (cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz; http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~cejkar) Brno University of Technology, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Tue May 8 5:15:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from boco.fee.vutbr.cz (boco.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A7E37B423; Tue, 8 May 2001 05:15:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.12]) by boco.fee.vutbr.cz (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f48CF7c83444 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Tue, 8 May 2001 14:15:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from cejkar@localhost) by kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f48CF7d97497; Tue, 8 May 2001 14:15:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:15:07 +0200 From: Cejka Rudolf To: "David O'Brien" Cc: Will Andrews , Jordan Hubbard , asami@FreeBSD.ORG, hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010508141507.C94054@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507163119.H3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507144618.A12252@dragon.nuxi.com> <20010507164650.J3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507150006.C12252@dragon.nuxi.com> <20010507170242.K3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010507151321.A12712@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507151321.A12712@dragon.nuxi.com>; from obrien@FreeBSD.ORG on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:13:21PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David O'Brien wrote (2001/05/07): > I assume > there will be a small number of sites that will mirror every FreeBSD bit > offered, but from the feedback of late, I don't think most main-line > mirrors will. Yes, I think that FreeBSD has MANY mirrors, but MANY of them are not up to date and it is hard to orientate among such big number of mirrors. I have checked it many times, when I tested when and which fresh iso images and releases various sites carry. If I were a normal FreeBSD user, I would not use any FreeBSD mirror site, because I simply could not believe to them. I would like to see much lower number of primary mirror sites, but with much higher quality and credibility. What about splitting up a list of mirror sites into primary (proven, credible) and secondary (incomplete, slower) categories? Imagine 4.4-RELEASE and all 100+ (?) mirror sites syncing and waiting for 4.4-release.iso over rsync :-) > > > If it is truly just a disk space issue, we should investigate if we can > > > get subsidized disks for well-connected mirrors. > > > BW is really the issue, what is expensive, and what we lack. > > Yup, but space is also an issue and should not be ignored. > Yes, to a point. If I put known issues into an ordered list, I get myself: 1) Management issues (time wasting - here are flowing big $$) - there are missing any apparent future plans about changes on master ftp site, there are still unreadable files and I still do not understand why and so on 2) Bandwidth limitations 3) Disk space limitations -- Rudolf Cejka (cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz; http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~cejkar) Brno University of Technology, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Tue May 8 5:35:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from boco.fee.vutbr.cz (boco.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.9.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98A937B61C; Tue, 8 May 2001 05:35:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz) Received: from kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz [147.229.8.12]) by boco.fee.vutbr.cz (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f48CZHc87296 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Tue, 8 May 2001 14:35:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from cejkar@localhost) by kazi.dcse.fee.vutbr.cz (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f48CZGT97775; Tue, 8 May 2001 14:35:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:35:16 +0200 From: Cejka Rudolf To: "David O'Brien" Cc: Jordan Hubbard , hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master Message-ID: <20010508143516.D94054@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> References: <20010507125604P.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010507130436.A11167@dragon.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507130436.A11167@dragon.nuxi.com>; from obrien@FreeBSD.ORG on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 01:04:36PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David O'Brien wrote (2001/05/07): > Can we move these to /pub/archive-FreeBSD/ or something? AFAIK we don't > have a space problem on ftp-master, and some sites like > ftp7.de.freebsd.org seems to like to carry every FreeBSD bit generated. If we want to stay with some upper bound of /pub/FreeBSD/ disk space, maybe we should separate i386 and alpha bits in more disjunct subtrees. We have about 50 GB for i386 and alpha now. However, what we will do when there is more supported architectures? -- Rudolf Cejka (cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz; http://www.fee.vutbr.cz/~cejkar) Brno University of Technology, Faculty of El. Engineering and Comp. Science Bozetechova 2, 612 66 Brno, Czech Republic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Tue May 8 14:21:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from piglet.dstc.edu.au (piglet.dstc.edu.au [130.102.176.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AB937B423 for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 14:21:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jason@dstc.edu.au) Received: from azure.dstc.edu.au (azure.dstc.edu.au [130.102.176.27]) by piglet.dstc.edu.au (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f48LLUO22755 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 07:21:30 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 07:21:31 +1000 (EST) From: jason andrade Cc: hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: <20010508141507.C94054@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 1.0 (http://www.roaringpenguin.com/mimedefang/) Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 8 May 2001, Cejka Rudolf wrote: [...] > them. I would like to see much lower number of primary mirror sites, but > with much higher quality and credibility. What about splitting up a list > of mirror sites into primary (proven, credible) and secondary > (incomplete, slower) categories? > > Imagine 4.4-RELEASE and all 100+ (?) mirror sites syncing > and waiting for 4.4-release.iso over rsync :-) from observing redhat releases, there are about 25 "primary" sites - i.e ones where admins will work to ensure a pre-release is completely available before an announcement. the other 100 or so sites tend to catch up at a rate of anything from a few days, to a few weeks, depending on the size of their mirror. but of those 25, i doubt there are more than half a dozen who can offer a complete (80G+?) redhat mirror. i'd expect similar numbers with freebsd mirroring. sometimes the concept of a "primary" might be more important as having an up to the date release available than a complete freebsd archive per se. -jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Wed May 9 1:13: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com (sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com [209.247.77.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6C8E37B423 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 01:12:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@bluemtn.net) Received: from localhost (gordont@localhost) by sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com (8.11.3/8.11.2/BMA1.1) with ESMTP id f498B4o41347; Wed, 9 May 2001 01:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 01:11:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow X-X-Sender: To: jason andrade Cc: Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 9 May 2001, jason andrade wrote: > On Tue, 8 May 2001, Cejka Rudolf wrote: > > [...] > > them. I would like to see much lower number of primary mirror sites, but > > with much higher quality and credibility. What about splitting up a list > > of mirror sites into primary (proven, credible) and secondary > > (incomplete, slower) categories? > > > > Imagine 4.4-RELEASE and all 100+ (?) mirror sites syncing > > and waiting for 4.4-release.iso over rsync :-) > > > from observing redhat releases, there are about 25 "primary" sites - i.e > ones where admins will work to ensure a pre-release is completely available > before an announcement. the other 100 or so sites tend to catch up at a > rate of anything from a few days, to a few weeks, depending on the size > of their mirror. > > but of those 25, i doubt there are more than half a dozen who can offer > a complete (80G+?) redhat mirror. > > i'd expect similar numbers with freebsd mirroring. sometimes the concept > of a "primary" might be more important as having an up to the date release > available than a complete freebsd archive per se. So why not formalize that relationship with an archive.freebsd.org which stores all the older stuff and ftp.freebsd.org that has the latest and greatest: Latest -RELEASE with packages Latest -SNAP (current and stable) Latest packages To get this work seamlessly, you need to put code into fetch/sysinstall to automagically try archive.freebsd.org when it can't find what it needs on ftp.freebsd.org. The advantage to this is a ftp.freebsd.org server will have high bandwidth requirements but lower disk requirements. An archive server will have large disk requirements but lower bandwidth requirements. This gives mirror operators the opportunity to sit down, assess what they can provide (ie, I can provide lots of disk, but not much bandwidth) and fill one of the above 2 roles. -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Wed May 9 6: 8:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0661637B424 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 06:08:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU) Received: (from kensmith@localhost) by electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21102; Wed, 9 May 2001 09:08:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Smith Message-Id: <200105091308.JAA21102@electra.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master To: gordont@bluemtn.net (Gordon Tetlow) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jason@dstc.edu.au (jason andrade), hubs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Gordon Tetlow" at May 09, 2001 01:11:04 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > From owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 9 04:13:03 2001 > To: jason andrade > Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master > > To get this work seamlessly, you need to put code into fetch/sysinstall to > automagically try archive.freebsd.org when it can't find what it needs on > ftp.freebsd.org. The advantage to this is a ftp.freebsd.org server will > have high bandwidth requirements but lower disk requirements. An archive > server will have large disk requirements but lower bandwidth requirements. > This gives mirror operators the opportunity to sit down, assess what they > can provide (ie, I can provide lots of disk, but not much bandwidth) and > fill one of the above 2 roles. > My guess is there won't be many signing up for the archive role. Mirror operators typically need to justify their existence to someone. *Usually* that justification will be having locally what it takes to do a FreeBSD install and wind up with a current machine. That's not what all end-users want to do but that's what the bulk of them want to do. If a mirror operator is willing to store more than what you propose ftp.freebsd.org would hold that's nice of them but I don't see where being a site that has older stuff only is going to attract a lot of folks. I could be wrong of course. I really like the clean separation of what's current versus old that you proposed for a variety of reasons. Architecting it so that one machine can hold both of them would be cool though. ken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Wed May 9 7:25: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from owlstation.cslab.vt.edu (owlstation.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2F137B422 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 07:25:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkurdzio@snowcow.cslab.vt.edu) Received: from snowcow.cslab.vt.edu (snowcow.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.27]) by owlstation.cslab.vt.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f49EP0b91946 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 10:25:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wkurdzio@snowcow.cslab.vt.edu) Received: from localhost (wkurdzio@localhost) by snowcow.cslab.vt.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f49EMeJ13280 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 10:22:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wkurdzio@snowcow.cslab.vt.edu) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:22:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Wes Kurdziolek To: Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ftp3.freebsd.org will volunteer to be archive.freebsd.org. We've got plenty of disk space, and I have lately routinely needed files from pre-3.x releases. -- Wes Kurdziolek Virginia Tech Computer Science Lab UNIX System Administrator E-mail: wkurdzio@cslab.vt.edu Voice: +1 (540) 231-3457 Office: 116A McBryde Hall http://www.cslab.vt.edu/ On Wed, 9 May 2001, Gordon Tetlow wrote: > On Wed, 9 May 2001, jason andrade wrote: > > > On Tue, 8 May 2001, Cejka Rudolf wrote: > > > > [...] > > > them. I would like to see much lower number of primary mirror sites, but > > > with much higher quality and credibility. What about splitting up a list > > > of mirror sites into primary (proven, credible) and secondary > > > (incomplete, slower) categories? > > > > > > Imagine 4.4-RELEASE and all 100+ (?) mirror sites syncing > > > and waiting for 4.4-release.iso over rsync :-) > > > > > > from observing redhat releases, there are about 25 "primary" sites - i.e > > ones where admins will work to ensure a pre-release is completely available > > before an announcement. the other 100 or so sites tend to catch up at a > > rate of anything from a few days, to a few weeks, depending on the size > > of their mirror. > > > > but of those 25, i doubt there are more than half a dozen who can offer > > a complete (80G+?) redhat mirror. > > > > i'd expect similar numbers with freebsd mirroring. sometimes the concept > > of a "primary" might be more important as having an up to the date release > > available than a complete freebsd archive per se. > > So why not formalize that relationship with an archive.freebsd.org which > stores all the older stuff and ftp.freebsd.org that has the latest and > greatest: > > Latest -RELEASE with packages > Latest -SNAP (current and stable) > Latest packages > > To get this work seamlessly, you need to put code into fetch/sysinstall to > automagically try archive.freebsd.org when it can't find what it needs on > ftp.freebsd.org. The advantage to this is a ftp.freebsd.org server will > have high bandwidth requirements but lower disk requirements. An archive > server will have large disk requirements but lower bandwidth requirements. > This gives mirror operators the opportunity to sit down, assess what they > can provide (ie, I can provide lots of disk, but not much bandwidth) and > fill one of the above 2 roles. > > -gordon > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Wed May 9 18:28: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFE6B37B423 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 18:28:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdugan@ncsa.uiuc.edu) Received: from mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.2.8]) by ex1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4A1S4b28427 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 20:28:04 -0500 (CDT) X-Envelope-From: jdugan@ncsa.uiuc.edu X-Envelope-To: Received: from anduril.ncsa.uiuc.edu (anduril.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.102.3]) by mx1.ncsa.uiuc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4A1S3703241 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 20:28:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jdugan by anduril.ncsa.uiuc.edu with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14xfFK-00046c-00 for hubs@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 09 May 2001 20:28:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 20:28:02 -0500 From: Jon Dugan To: hubs@freebsd.org Subject: rsync woes Message-ID: <20010509202802.A15761@ncsa.uiuc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I finally managed to get a clean rsync from ftp-master this afternoon. I had a heck of a time getting rsync to run all the way through. I am using 2.4.6 and the command line Peter suggested. I must've run it 10 times over the last 5 days trying to get a full copy. It would just silently die once in a while -- in particular trying to get ISO images, but not exclusively. The output of -vvvvv showed this: (I only have one -vvvvv run logged) recv_files(releases/alpha/ISO-IMAGES/4.2-install.iso) recv mapped releases/alpha/ISO-IMAGES/4.2-install.iso of size 685191168 releases/alpha/ISO-IMAGES/4.2-install.iso deflate on token returned 0 (16384 bytes left) unexpected EOF in read_timeout unexpected EOF in read_timeout This sounds like the problem Daniel Lang reported on the 3rd. Anyone else seen this? Jon -- Jon Dugan | Senior Network Engineer, NCSA Network Development jdugan@ncsa.uiuc.edu | 57C CAB, 605 E Springfield, Champaign, IL 61820 217/244-7715 | http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/people/jdugan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Wed May 9 21: 3:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A1E37B423 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 21:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4A43RM27354 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 21:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56705380E; Wed, 9 May 2001 21:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Jon Dugan Cc: hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: rsync woes In-Reply-To: <20010509202802.A15761@ncsa.uiuc.edu> Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 21:03:27 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010510040327.56705380E@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jon Dugan wrote: > I finally managed to get a clean rsync from ftp-master this afternoon. > > I had a heck of a time getting rsync to run all the way through. I am usin g > 2.4.6 and the command line Peter suggested. I must've run it 10 times over > the last 5 days trying to get a full copy. > > It would just silently die once in a while -- in particular trying to get > ISO images, but not exclusively. The output of -vvvvv showed this: (I only > have one -vvvvv run logged) > > recv_files(releases/alpha/ISO-IMAGES/4.2-install.iso) > recv mapped releases/alpha/ISO-IMAGES/4.2-install.iso of size 685191168 > releases/alpha/ISO-IMAGES/4.2-install.iso > deflate on token returned 0 (16384 bytes left) > unexpected EOF in read_timeout > unexpected EOF in read_timeout > > This sounds like the problem Daniel Lang reported on the 3rd. Anyone else > seen this? I think I know what is going on. rsync is using an embedded zlib-1.1.2 library. We got burned a few times with 1.1.2 ourselves, and have 1.1.3 in the tree. The changelog for 1.1.3 says: Changes in 1.1.3 (9 July 1998) - fix "an inflate input buffer bug that shows up on rare but persistent occasions" (Mark) ... I half suspect this is the reason for the problems. :-( I wonder how many tweaks were made to the embedded copy? Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Wed May 9 22:46:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C69C37B422; Wed, 9 May 2001 22:46:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4A5kYM27640; Wed, 9 May 2001 22:46:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5997D380E; Wed, 9 May 2001 22:46:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Will Andrews Cc: Jordan Hubbard , asami@FreeBSD.ORG, obrien@FreeBSD.ORG, hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: <20010507163119.H3246@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 22:46:34 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010510054634.5997D380E@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Will Andrews wrote: > packages-4-stable is only stale because bento hasn't had a place to > upload the bits for awhile. If you give Satoshi an account on > ftp-master, I'm sure they will be updated. We've always updated the > packages-*-* bits about once a week. :) > He does have an account. With the same ssh authorized_keys that is on freefall. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu May 10 0:33:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFBD037B422 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 00:33:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from langd@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) Received: from atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de ([131.159.24.91] HELO atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de ident: IDENT-NONSENSE [port 1526]) by tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <113119-9080>; Thu, 10 May 2001 09:33:28 +0000 Received: by atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Postfix, from userid 20455) id 76E5413667; Thu, 10 May 2001 09:33:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:33:16 +0200 From: Daniel Lang To: Peter Wemm Cc: Jon Dugan , hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: rsync woes Message-ID: <20010510093316.B14626@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <20010509202802.A15761@ncsa.uiuc.edu> <20010510040327.56705380E@overcee.netplex.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010510040327.56705380E@overcee.netplex.com.au>; from peter@wemm.org on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:03:27PM -0700 X-Geek: GCS d-- s: a- C++ UB++++$ P+++$ L- E W+++(--) N+ o K w--- O? M- V@ PS+(++) PE--(+) Y+ PGP+ t++ 5@ X R+(-) tv+ b+ DI++ D++ G++ e+++ h---(-) r++>+++ y Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Peter Wemm wrote on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:03:27PM -0700: [..] > I think I know what is going on. rsync is using an embedded zlib-1.1.2 > library. We got burned a few times with 1.1.2 ourselves, and have 1.1.3 > in the tree. The changelog for 1.1.3 says: > > Changes in 1.1.3 (9 July 1998) > - fix "an inflate input buffer bug that shows up on rare but persistent > occasions" (Mark) > ... > > I half suspect this is the reason for the problems. :-( I wonder how many > tweaks were made to the embedded copy? Hmm, but the iso's shouldn't be transferred compressed. At least I understood Peter that way, that .tgz and .iso will be excluded from compression. So why should deflate() be called at all ? Or is it, that the whole stream is piped through, but with a compression level of 0 or something ? Regards, Daniel -- IRCnet: Mr-Spock - Eddie would go! - Daniel Lang * dl@leo.org * +49 89 289 25735 * http://www.leo.org/~dl/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu May 10 0:58:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from impatience.valueclick.com (impatience.valueclick.com [216.246.96.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AA82537B423 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 00:58:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ask@valueclick.com) Received: (qmail 5670 invoked by uid 500); 10 May 2001 07:58:26 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 May 2001 07:58:26 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 00:58:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Ask Bjoern Hansen To: Gordon Tetlow Cc: Peter Wemm , hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: load distribution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 3 May 2001, Gordon Tetlow wrote: > At this rate, we are going to nail the magic number of 8 primary > first-tier mirrors for the ftp.freebsd.org round-robin. After that > the load gets weird with some machines getting more load than > others. It would probably be beneficial to use ultra-dns or some > other closest hop first technology. Has anyone taken a look at it? > or did I just volunteer myself? For ftp.perl.org (and ftp-dist.apache.org, but that's not announced yet or well populated with mirrors) I've made a name server that sends you to one of the mirrors in your country[1], or failing that on the same continent as you. If I in some automated way can get a list of mirrors with their country and (optionally) a weighting it's very easy to add support for ftp.freebsd.org. http://sourceforge.net/projects/dinamed/ - ask [1] or well, obviously it only knows about the ip address of your nameserver, but chances are good that they are in the same country. -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do(); more than 100M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu May 10 1: 2:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from peter3.wemm.org (c1315225-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com [65.0.135.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223CA37B423 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 01:02:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4A82LM28062 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 01:02:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2EF3380E; Thu, 10 May 2001 01:02:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Daniel Lang Cc: Jon Dugan , hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: rsync woes In-Reply-To: <20010510093316.B14626@atrbg11.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 01:02:21 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20010510080221.D2EF3380E@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Daniel Lang wrote: > Hi, > > Peter Wemm wrote on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:03:27PM -0700: > [..] > > I think I know what is going on. rsync is using an embedded zlib-1.1.2 > > library. We got burned a few times with 1.1.2 ourselves, and have 1.1.3 > > in the tree. The changelog for 1.1.3 says: > > > > Changes in 1.1.3 (9 July 1998) > > - fix "an inflate input buffer bug that shows up on rare but persistent > > occasions" (Mark) > > ... > > > > I half suspect this is the reason for the problems. :-( I wonder how many > > tweaks were made to the embedded copy? > > Hmm, but the iso's shouldn't be transferred compressed. At least > I understood Peter that way, that .tgz and .iso will be excluded > from compression. So why should deflate() be called at all ? > Or is it, that the whole stream is piped through, but with a > compression level of 0 or something ? It looks to me that the problem with the zlib stuff happens at the boundaries. Looking at some of the zlib diffs suggested a few scenarios that might have caused this problem (ie: padding where it isn't supposed to be, etc). Yes, the docs are very explicit that .iso, .tgz etc are not compressed. I have not personally read the rsync code where this is handled. *grumble* *grumble* *kick rsync* *grumble* *looks at cvsupd again* Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu May 10 1: 8: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from impatience.valueclick.com (impatience.valueclick.com [216.246.96.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 99E4B37B423 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 01:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ask@valueclick.com) Received: (qmail 5872 invoked by uid 500); 10 May 2001 08:07:58 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 May 2001 08:07:58 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 01:07:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Ask Bjoern Hansen To: David O'Brien Cc: Jordan Hubbard , hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: <20010507130436.A11167@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 7 May 2001, David O'Brien wrote: [...] > Can we move these to /pub/archive-FreeBSD/ or something? AFAIK we don't > have a space problem on ftp-master, and some sites like > ftp7.de.freebsd.org seems to like to carry every FreeBSD bit generated. That's sorta what we do at CPAN. Try to keep the main archive (with hundreds of official mirrors) somewhat clean and neat and then just keep the "historic" stuff on a few mirrors. - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do(); more than 100M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu May 10 1:10:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from ringworld.nanolink.com (ringworld.nanolink.com [195.24.48.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8557537B423 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 01:10:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roam@orbitel.bg) Received: (qmail 2456 invoked by uid 1000); 10 May 2001 08:09:51 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:09:50 +0300 From: Peter Pentchev To: Ask Bjoern Hansen Cc: Gordon Tetlow , Peter Wemm , hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: load distribution Message-ID: <20010510110950.A673@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Ask Bjoern Hansen , Gordon Tetlow , Peter Wemm , hubs@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from ask@valueclick.com on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:58:26AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:58:26AM -0700, Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote: > On Thu, 3 May 2001, Gordon Tetlow wrote: > > > At this rate, we are going to nail the magic number of 8 primary > > first-tier mirrors for the ftp.freebsd.org round-robin. After that > > the load gets weird with some machines getting more load than > > others. It would probably be beneficial to use ultra-dns or some > > other closest hop first technology. Has anyone taken a look at it? > > or did I just volunteer myself? > > For ftp.perl.org (and ftp-dist.apache.org, but that's not announced > yet or well populated with mirrors) I've made a name server that sends > you to one of the mirrors in your country[1], or failing that on the > same continent as you. > > If I in some automated way can get a list of mirrors with their > country and (optionally) a weighting it's very easy to add support for > ftp.freebsd.org. > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/dinamed/ > > > - ask > > [1] or well, obviously it only knows about the ip address of your > nameserver, but chances are good that they are in the same > country. Just for the record (not, repeat NOT, trying to start another of those DJBware flamewars), this can now be easily achieved using djbdns, too. Yes, I know people have strong feelings about DJB's license. Just thought I'd mention this. G'luck, Peter -- Do you think anybody has ever had *precisely this thought* before? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu May 10 1:18: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from impatience.valueclick.com (impatience.valueclick.com [216.246.96.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3554E37B424 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 01:18:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ask@valueclick.com) Received: (qmail 6035 invoked by uid 500); 10 May 2001 08:18:07 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 May 2001 08:18:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 01:18:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Ask Bjoern Hansen To: David O'Brien Cc: Will Andrews , Jordan Hubbard , asami@FreeBSD.ORG, hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: We seriously need a cleanup on ftp-master In-Reply-To: <20010507151321.A12712@dragon.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 7 May 2001, David O'Brien wrote: > On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 05:02:42PM -0500, Will Andrews wrote: > > > Er, no one will mirror them from FreeBSD-archive. So where will they get > > > them from? ftp-master.freebsd.org is not for user consumption. > > > > ftp.freebsd.org? That's the default site too. :) > > Perhaps I am out of touch... isn't ftp.freebsd.org going to be a rotating > CNAME to ftp*.freebsd.org (verified full mirrors of /pub/FreeBSD)? > Thus how is the common person going to get pub/FreeBSD-Archive? He'll go to ftp-archive.freebsd.org or whatever (which will point to a cluster of mirrors with those bits). [...] > As I said, maybe we need to consider subsidizing disk space if that is > the only reason someone would not mirror us [and has *FAT* pipes]. > $$ disk <<< $$ BW. But if you make it really painfree to start mirroring the whole "primary" mirror it would be easier to get lots of mirrors. Most of the bandwidth goes to the .iso's anyway and those are what there should be lots and lots and lots of mirrors of (so the bandwidth cost per site goes down). - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do(); more than 100M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu May 10 1:27: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from impatience.valueclick.com (impatience.valueclick.com [216.246.96.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B8A8E37B50B for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 01:26:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ask@valueclick.com) Received: (qmail 6175 invoked by uid 500); 10 May 2001 08:26:56 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 May 2001 08:26:56 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 01:26:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Ask Bjoern Hansen To: Peter Pentchev Cc: Gordon Tetlow , Peter Wemm , hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: load distribution In-Reply-To: <20010510110950.A673@ringworld.oblivion.bg> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 10 May 2001, Peter Pentchev wrote: > Just for the record (not, repeat NOT, trying to start another of those > DJBware flamewars), this can now be easily achieved using djbdns, too. The hard part is figuring out where people come from and dealing with it. With djbdns you'd have to preconfigure a list of every /24 to get it right. > Yes, I know people have strong feelings about DJB's license. Just thought > I'd mention this. :-) - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do(); more than 100M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu May 10 1:33:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com (sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com [209.247.77.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CB0E37B423 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 01:33:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gordont@bluemtn.net) Received: from localhost (gordont@localhost) by sdmail0.sd.bmarts.com (8.11.3/8.11.2/BMA1.1) with ESMTP id f4A8VJ920304; Thu, 10 May 2001 01:31:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 01:31:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Gordon Tetlow X-X-Sender: To: Ask Bjoern Hansen Cc: Peter Wemm , Subject: Re: load distribution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 10 May 2001, Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote: > On Thu, 3 May 2001, Gordon Tetlow wrote: > > > At this rate, we are going to nail the magic number of 8 primary > > first-tier mirrors for the ftp.freebsd.org round-robin. After that > > the load gets weird with some machines getting more load than > > others. It would probably be beneficial to use ultra-dns or some > > other closest hop first technology. Has anyone taken a look at it? > > or did I just volunteer myself? > > For ftp.perl.org (and ftp-dist.apache.org, but that's not announced > yet or well populated with mirrors) I've made a name server that sends > you to one of the mirrors in your country[1], or failing that on the > same continent as you. > > If I in some automated way can get a list of mirrors with their > country and (optionally) a weighting it's very easy to add support for > ftp.freebsd.org. > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/dinamed/ Actually, I like the supersparrow project better, it pulls info from bgp tables and goes from there. This approximates even better and you don't have to figure out what IP block goes where. I'm not exactly sure how well it works, but it looks kinda cool. Checkout http://supersparrow.sourceforge.net/ (I think that's the url) and http://sourceforge.net/projects/supersparrow/ (again, I think). If those are wrong, just search for super sparrow on sourceforge. A site that I know uses it is: http://www.kainx.org/ -gordon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Thu May 10 2: 6:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 664) id A790B37B423; Thu, 10 May 2001 02:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 02:06:41 -0700 From: David O'Brien To: Cejka Rudolf Cc: Peter Wemm , hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp-master method Message-ID: <20010510020641.A74321@hub.freebsd.org> Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org References: <200105041644.f44GiuO54477@vashon.polstra.com> <20010506213812.3BAFE380E@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20010507120419.A42291@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> <20010507171037.A73262@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010507171037.A73262@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz>; from cejkar@dcse.fee.vutbr.cz on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 05:10:37PM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 05:10:37PM +0200, Cejka Rudolf wrote: > * What does mean ports/alpha/obrien on ftp-master.freebsd.org/FreeBSD? In the days of fsarchive, /home was not big enough to hold the packages. So I had to copy them up w/in /pub/FreeBSD. They are not organized the way I needed them at the source, so I copied them up into ..../obrien/ so people would know who was doing this and who to ask about it. I believe /home is now on the same device as /pub/FreeBSD. This means I can stage in my homedir and do an easy `mv'[*] to put them in place. [*] e.g. an mv that is only moving a single directory, not the contents of the directory as would happen in a cross-device move. > * It seems that snapshots/alpha/5.0-20000804-CURRENT on > ftp-master.freebsd.org/FreeBSD is broken (and out of date). I rm'ed that. Maybe you were syncing the in middle of it or something?? -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hubs Fri May 11 9:23: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hubs@freebsd.org Received: from greyhat.joemagee.com (cc286272-b.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.180.97.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94DFE37B424 for ; Fri, 11 May 2001 09:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from me@joemagee.com) Received: from unauthenxg31xi [24.180.97.145] by greyhat.joemagee.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A2812F0186; Fri, 11 May 2001 12:25:37 -0400 From: To: Subject: FreeBSD Mirror Site Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:28:20 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c0da37$645c4940$0f01810a@unauthenxg31xi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C0DA15.DD4C2FE0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hubs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C0DA15.DD4C2FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you are interested. I have plenty of disk space on my FTP server and a 1.8Mb Internet connection.=20 =20 I=92d be more than happy to host a mirror for FreeBSD ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C0DA15.DD4C2FE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If you are = interested. I have plenty of disk space on my FTP server and a 1.8Mb Internet connection. =

 

I’d be more than happy to host a mirror for = FreeBSD

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C0DA15.DD4C2FE0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hubs" in the body of the message