From owner-freebsd-java Mon Apr 2 16:15:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from wotan.nw1.de (wotan.nw1.de [212.84.248.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D955B37B722 for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 16:15:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karl@keusgen.com) Received: from keusgen.com (r-219-32.koln.ipdial.viaginterkom.de [62.180.32.219]) by wotan.nw1.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA01359 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 01:15:13 +0200 Message-ID: <3AC907B6.34FA01BE@keusgen.com> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 01:13:58 +0200 From: KArl Keusgen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: java tutarial Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, You requested a mail, if I would wish a special java-tutorial, and I do so. After doing a lot af professional c-programming, and finding out that FreeBSD is absolutly the best platform to this, I would like to continue with FreeBSD as the best platform to do some JAVA-programming, my company likes this. I got problems to run jdk1.1.8 on my FreeBSD4.0 system. I get a segmentation fault, no matter what I try, so that I need some help, otherwise I'm forced to change the platform, and I wouldn't like this at all. I tried them all, LINUX, AIX, IRIX.... Coding c and c++, FreeBSD is the best and I would wish to say this about FreeBSD concerning JAVA-coding as well. But, maybe you are able to help me instantly, with a hint. My environment: PWD=/home/keusgen/downloads/bsd/java PAGER=more FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=YES HOSTNAME=keusgen068.mas.de LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/qt/lib: QTDIR=/usr/local/qt CLASSPATH=/usr/local/jdk1.1.8/lib/classes.zip MANPATH=/usr/local/qt/doc/man:/usr/share/man:/usr/man:/usr/local/man: ENV=/home/keusgen/.shrc BLOCKSIZE=K KDEDIR=/usr/local USER=keusgen MACHTYPE=i386--freebsd4.0 MAIL=/var/mail/keusgen OLDPWD=/home/keusgen EDITOR=vi JAVA_HOME=/usr/local/jdk1.1.8/ COLORTERM= DISPLAY=:0 SHLVL=2 LOGNAME=keusgen SHELL=/usr/local/bin/bash JDK_HOME=/usr/local/jdk1.1.8/ HOSTTYPE=i386 OSTYPE=freebsd4.0 HOME=/home/keusgen TERM=xterm PATH=/usr/local/qt/bin:/home/keusgen/bin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/jdk1.1.8/bin _=/usr/bin/env THe error allways occures: bash-2.03$ javac Clock2.java javac /usr/local/jdk1.1.8//bin/i386/green_threads/javac SIGSEGV 11* segmentation violation Full thread dump: Monitor Cache Dump: Registered Monitor Dump: Monitor IO lock: Child death monitor: Event monitor: I/O monitor: Alarm monitor: Memory allocation lock: Monitor registry: Thread Alarm Q: Abort trap Thanks a lot, Regards Karl keusgen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Mon Apr 2 16:28:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from calliope.cs.brandeis.edu (calliope.cs.brandeis.edu [129.64.3.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3262C37B71B for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 16:28:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from meshko@calliope.cs.brandeis.edu) Received: from localhost (meshko@localhost) by calliope.cs.brandeis.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00441; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 19:28:35 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 19:28:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Mikhail Kruk To: KArl Keusgen Cc: Subject: Re: java tutarial In-Reply-To: <3AC907B6.34FA01BE@keusgen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think you need compat3x libraries installed. > Hi, > > You requested a mail, if I would wish a special java-tutorial, and I do > so. > > After doing a lot af professional c-programming, and finding out that > FreeBSD is absolutly the best platform to this, I would like to continue > with FreeBSD as the best platform to do some JAVA-programming, my > company likes this. > > I got problems to run jdk1.1.8 on my FreeBSD4.0 system. I get a > segmentation fault, no matter what I try, so that I need some help, > otherwise I'm forced to change the platform, and I wouldn't like this at > all. I tried them all, LINUX, AIX, IRIX.... Coding c and c++, FreeBSD is > the best and I would wish to say this about FreeBSD concerning > JAVA-coding as well. > > But, maybe you are able to help me instantly, with a hint. > > My environment: > > PWD=/home/keusgen/downloads/bsd/java > PAGER=more > FTP_PASSIVE_MODE=YES > HOSTNAME=keusgen068.mas.de > LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/qt/lib: > QTDIR=/usr/local/qt > CLASSPATH=/usr/local/jdk1.1.8/lib/classes.zip > MANPATH=/usr/local/qt/doc/man:/usr/share/man:/usr/man:/usr/local/man: > ENV=/home/keusgen/.shrc > BLOCKSIZE=K > KDEDIR=/usr/local > USER=keusgen > MACHTYPE=i386--freebsd4.0 > MAIL=/var/mail/keusgen > OLDPWD=/home/keusgen > EDITOR=vi > JAVA_HOME=/usr/local/jdk1.1.8/ > COLORTERM= > DISPLAY=:0 > SHLVL=2 > LOGNAME=keusgen > SHELL=/usr/local/bin/bash > JDK_HOME=/usr/local/jdk1.1.8/ > HOSTTYPE=i386 > OSTYPE=freebsd4.0 > HOME=/home/keusgen > TERM=xterm > PATH=/usr/local/qt/bin:/home/keusgen/bin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/jdk1.1.8/bin > > _=/usr/bin/env > > THe error allways occures: > bash-2.03$ javac Clock2.java > javac > /usr/local/jdk1.1.8//bin/i386/green_threads/javac > SIGSEGV 11* segmentation violation > > Full thread dump: > Monitor Cache Dump: > Registered Monitor Dump: > Monitor IO lock: > Child death monitor: > Event monitor: > I/O monitor: > Alarm monitor: > Memory allocation lock: > Monitor registry: > Thread Alarm Q: > Abort trap > > > Thanks a lot, > > Regards > > Karl keusgen > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Tue Apr 3 1:27:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4383C37B71B for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 01:27:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:27:37 +0100 Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9AE1@l04.research.kpn.com> From: "Koster, K.J." To: 'KArl Keusgen' Cc: freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: java tutarial Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:27:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dear KArl, :) > > THe error allways occures: > bash-2.03$ javac Clock2.java > javac > /usr/local/jdk1.1.8//bin/i386/green_threads/javac > SIGSEGV 11* segmentation violation > This is a FAQ. Install the 3.x compat libs. The easiers way to do this is to start /stand/sysinstall, go to [index] and select [adding distributions]. http://kjkoster.org/java/index.jsp?page=content/unrelated.jsp&id=hd02 Kees Jan ================================================ You are only young once, but you can stay immature all your life.> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Wed Apr 4 9: 0:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from woodinville.netos.com (woodinville.netos.com [216.251.100.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3287B37B71B for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:00:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from merycris@hotmail.com) Received: from ns.lakeforestparkchurch.org ([216.251.106.241]) by woodinville.netos.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-38159U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA144 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:00:21 -0700 Received: by ns.lakeforestparkchurch.org with XtraMail-SMTP/POP3-Server (v1.2 18220008767) for at Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:06:12 +-700 From: To: Cc: Subject: new found! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:06:12 +-700 Message-Id: <0104040706123217@ns.lakeforestparkchurch.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org List and Search under http://www.eroos.ru or http://216.218.174.6/pages this program you can download from http://216.218.174.6/download/search_and_send.zip -------------------------------------------------------- Messages end ------------------------------------------------------------------ *******************footer only for user unregisted************************* __________________ Programm - Emailer Free Version _______________________ __________________ Mailsend with http://www.openonline.de _________________ __________________ Mailsend with http://www.stripline.de _________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ *************************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Apr 5 4:51:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ntua.gr (achilles.noc.ntua.gr [147.102.222.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5191037B42C for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 04:51:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from past@netmode.ntua.gr) Received: from netmode.ntua.gr (dolly.netmode.ece.ntua.gr [147.102.13.10]) by ntua.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26421; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:51:28 +0300 (EET DST) Received: (from past@localhost) by netmode.ntua.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f35C3Ds07562; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:03:13 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from past) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:03:13 +0300 From: Panagiotis Astithas To: Nate Williams Cc: java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: JDK2 binary update Message-ID: <20010405150313.A7385@netmode.ece.ntua.gr> Reply-To: past@netmode.ntua.gr References: <15039.53869.503026.885294@nomad.yogotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <15039.53869.503026.885294@nomad.yogotech.com>; from nate@yogotech.com on Mon, Mar 26, 2001 at 04:36:13PM -0700 X-Organizational-Unit: Network Management and Optimal Design Laboratory X-Organization: National Technical University of Athens, GREECE X-Work-Phone: +30-1-772-1-450 X-Work-FAX: +30-1-772-1-452 Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 26, 2001 at 04:36:13PM -0700, Nate Williams wrote: > I just got off the phone with Sun, and the legal wrangling continues. [snip] > In short, things are still happening, but I quit holding my breath about > 4 months ago. I was wondering, is there any chance that Windriver could be beneficial for us at this point? If they can succeed at helping us where BSDi obviously failed, then I think everyone would consider the recent acquisition a huge step forward. -past To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Apr 5 5:51:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from gnuppy.monkey.org (cx739861-a.dt1.sdca.home.com [24.5.164.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8D1937B43E for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 05:51:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billh@gnuppy.monkey.org) Received: from billh by gnuppy.monkey.org with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 14l9Dx-0002Xo-00; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 05:50:53 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 05:50:53 -0700 To: Panagiotis Astithas Cc: Nate Williams , java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: JDK2 binary update Message-ID: <20010405055053.A6429@gnuppy> References: <15039.53869.503026.885294@nomad.yogotech.com> <20010405150313.A7385@netmode.ece.ntua.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <20010405150313.A7385@netmode.ece.ntua.gr>; from past@netmode.ntua.gr on Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 03:03:13PM +0300 From: Bill Huey Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 03:03:13PM +0300, Panagiotis Astithas wrote: > I was wondering, is there any chance that Windriver could be beneficial > for us at this point? If they can succeed at helping us where BSDi > obviously failed, then I think everyone would consider the recent > acquisition a huge step forward. > > -past Assuming that your claim is true and that really did BSDi fail at helping FreeBSD, it's because the FreeBSD community failed to provide the leadership that's neccesary to push it your own project forward, not the other way around. It's not directly the fault of upper management here and is generally well known (freaking obvious in our group) what's going on across the corporate pond. That's all I'll say about the matter for now. "Minnesota Trip" It's been a pretty scary ride so far to get called up by my manager to fly to Minnesota under false pretenses (basic engineering confernce) only to and have this entire aquisition dumped into your lap. WindRiver is a very different culture with the typically crap you experience from large corporations. I'm not sure what to think of it so far, but I can definitely say this about my experiences with the current BSDi... I've *never* been talked down to by any of the core engineers here which is a profound indication of how genuinely sincere these folks are as human beings. You basically can't run a business as financially tight as BSDi without having this kind of mutual respect. It's pretty different than the stuff you get directly from the OSD folks and a number of FreeBSD engineers that basically are a bunch of teenage idiots that have more ego than talent and crap talk about folks behind their backs because they're largely suffering from self-esteem problems. And having a more elite group validate your identity (BSDi's commercial systems division) makes that crap talking from those folks look pretty pathetic. This (FreeBSD's Java) group has been largely free of that stuff. Thank You. ;-) It's going to be a difficult next few days. I've been given a job offer at WindRiver and I have a few days to think about things (with serious problems with understanding of my role here that I have never had with the normal BSDi crew) before I decide about joining them. All of this is pretty upsetting. You can't help but wonder if you're ever going to see these coworkers again, which have largely been something like extended family with identical dreams regardless of engineering seniority. I've been on a senior engineering track with the JVM being my first "teething" project and everybody so far has been extremely supportive about my growth/career path with an appreciation of what I've done so far. It's going to be difficult replicating this implicit understanding in what I expect will happen in a new corporate environment. I'll try and keep in touch with the folks about this matter over the next few days. bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Apr 5 5:59:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from l04.research.kpn.com (l04.research.kpn.com [139.63.192.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DCC937B507 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 05:59:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K.J.Koster@kpn.com) Received: by l04.research.kpn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <2KM84H7W>; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:59:36 +0100 Message-ID: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E452205FD9AFF@l04.research.kpn.com> From: "Koster, K.J." To: 'Bill Huey' Cc: java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: JDK2 binary update Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:59:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dear Bill, > > It's going to be difficult replicating this > implicit understanding in what I expect will happen in a new corporate > environment. > Business being what it is today, there will be a lot of people on this mailing list who are going through the same process. I wish you and the others all the wisdom in their choice. > > I'll try and keep in touch with the folks about this matter over the > next few days. > We'll be listening. :-) Kees Jan ================================================ You are only young once, but you can stay immature all your life. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Thu Apr 5 6:27:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from veldy.net (w028.z064001117.msp-mn.dsl.cnc.net [64.1.117.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D1437B43C for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 06:27:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from veldy@veldy.net) Received: from HP2500B (fuggle.veldy.net [64.1.117.28]) by veldy.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C9CF5BA40; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:26:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00c301c0bdd3$778248b0$3028680a@tgt.com> From: "Thomas T. Veldhouse" To: , "Nate Williams" Cc: References: <15039.53869.503026.885294@nomad.yogotech.com> <20010405150313.A7385@netmode.ece.ntua.gr> Subject: Re: JDK2 binary update Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:22:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ugh! WinDriver or WindRiver :) Tom Veldhouse veldy@veldy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Panagiotis Astithas" To: "Nate Williams" Cc: Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:03 AM Subject: Re: JDK2 binary update > On Mon, Mar 26, 2001 at 04:36:13PM -0700, Nate Williams wrote: > > I just got off the phone with Sun, and the legal wrangling continues. > > [snip] > > > In short, things are still happening, but I quit holding my breath about > > 4 months ago. > > I was wondering, is there any chance that Windriver could be beneficial > for us at this point? If they can succeed at helping us where BSDi > obviously failed, then I think everyone would consider the recent > acquisition a huge step forward. > > -past > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Sat Apr 7 9: 0:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from gradient.cis.upenn.edu (GRADIENT.CIS.UPENN.EDU [158.130.67.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF5637B424 for ; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 09:00:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from agoodloe@gradient.cis.upenn.edu) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gradient.cis.upenn.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f37G0Wp03709 for ; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 12:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 12:00:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Alwyn Goodloe To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: JDK1.2 build error Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In buiding jdk1.2 I get the following error. I have installed motif & the developers toolkit. I thought of using lesstif but wasn't sure what to change in the build file I, tried changing ALT_MOTIF_DIR=/usr/X11R6/LessTif to no avail. Any suggestions. The error message is included below. Alwyn Goodloe agoodloe@gradient.cis.upenn.edu <<>>Recursively making ./../../ext/i18n/build/freebsd all... gmake[1]: Entering directory `/usr/ports/j2/work/ext/i18n/build/freebsd' gmake classes .library.install VARIANT=OPT gmake[2]: Entering directory `/usr/ports/j2/work/ext/i18n/build/freebsd' rm -f .classes.list gmake[2]: *** No rule to make target `/usr/ports/j2/work/ext/i18n/build/freebsd/classes/sun/awt/motif/CharToByteX11CNS11643P1.class', needed by `classes'. Stop. gmake[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/j2/work/ext/i18n/build/freebsd' gmake[1]: *** [optimized] Error 2 gmake[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/j2/work/ext/i18n/build/freebsd' gmake: *** [ext-all] Error 1 JDK build started at Sat Apr 7 11:26:09 EDT 2001. JDK build finished at Sat Apr 7 11:50:36 EDT 2001. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-java Sat Apr 7 11: 1: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from ntua.gr (achilles.noc.ntua.gr [147.102.222.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA9A37B42C for ; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 11:01:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from past@netmode.ntua.gr) Received: from netmode.ntua.gr (dolly.netmode.ece.ntua.gr [147.102.13.10]) by ntua.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17406; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 21:00:58 +0300 (EET DST) Received: (from past@localhost) by netmode.ntua.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f37ICvK41925; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 21:12:57 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from past) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 21:12:56 +0300 From: Panagiotis Astithas To: Bill Huey Cc: Nate Williams , java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: JDK2 binary update Message-ID: <20010407211256.A41705@netmode.ece.ntua.gr> Reply-To: past@netmode.ntua.gr References: <15039.53869.503026.885294@nomad.yogotech.com> <20010405150313.A7385@netmode.ece.ntua.gr> <20010405055053.A6429@gnuppy> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20010405055053.A6429@gnuppy>; from billh@gnuppy.monkey.org on Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 05:50:53AM -0700 X-Organizational-Unit: Network Management and Optimal Design Laboratory X-Organization: National Technical University of Athens, GREECE X-Work-Phone: +30-1-772-1-450 X-Work-FAX: +30-1-772-1-452 Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 05:50:53AM -0700, Bill Huey wrote: > Assuming that your claim is true and that really did BSDi fail at > helping FreeBSD, it's because the FreeBSD community failed to provide > the leadership that's neccesary to push it your own project forward, > not the other way around. It's not directly the fault of upper > management here and is generally well known (freaking obvious in our > group) what's going on across the corporate pond. > > That's all I'll say about the matter for now. I guess you should know more about this issue than I do, since you are "in the loop" (more or less), but what I perceived as a failure on BSDi's part was the lack of success in _distributing_, not _making_ (or helping to make) a JDK port for FreeBSD. From Nate's last message on the subject I got the impression that Sun's lawyer team could only be matched by something like BSDi's respective team. Whether this would be something that BSDi _should_ have done (judging by their needs) is another issue, I guess. But that's only my understanding of the situation, of course. > WindRiver is a very different culture with the typically crap you > experience from large corporations. I'm not sure what to think of it > so far, but I can definitely say this about my experiences with the > current BSDi... I've *never* been talked down to by any of the core > engineers here which is a profound indication of how genuinely sincere > these folks are as human beings. You basically can't run a business as > financially tight as BSDi without having this kind of mutual respect. > > It's pretty different than the stuff you get directly from the OSD > folks and a number of FreeBSD engineers that basically are a bunch of > teenage idiots that have more ego than talent and crap talk about folks > behind their backs because they're largely suffering from self-esteem > problems. And having a more elite group validate your identity (BSDi's > commercial systems division) makes that crap talking from those > folks look pretty pathetic. The initial reason that lured me personally to FreeBSD, was exactly this perception of a team of decent people and excellent engineers that was creating all that great stuff. It's nice to know that the same thing was true for the project's cousin, BSDi. Now, of course you can't avoid dealing with a few facts of life here, namely that no two persons are alike and you can have always everything your way, but this gives us the opportunity to learn how to live and cooperate with persons who's minds work very different than ours, but their goals meet ours most of the time. Now, who said that computers take away your social skills from you? :-) > All of this is pretty upsetting. You can't help but wonder if you're > ever going to see these coworkers again, which have largely been > something like extended family with identical dreams regardless of > engineering seniority. I've been on a senior engineering track with > the JVM being my first "teething" project and everybody so far has been > extremely supportive about my growth/career path with an appreciation > of what I've done so far. It's going to be difficult replicating this > implicit understanding in what I expect will happen in a new corporate > environment. I guess we have all had our own share of trouble when changing working environments, but I find it quieting that we can have FreeBSD, or any other open source project you can think of, as a common passion/job/hobby/whatever, from which we never have to leave due to organizational restructuring, corporate mergers, bonehead managers, etc. To put it bluntly: this is something they can't take away from us. No matter where your professional career takes you, please keep hanging around. It's nice to have you with us :-). All the best, -past To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message