From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 4 4: 6:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mink.ecitele.com (mink.ecitele.com [147.234.1.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13C8337B491; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 04:06:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from olive.ecitele.com (ilsmtp04.ecitele.com [147.234.8.125]) by mink.ecitele.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08744; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 14:04:32 +0200 (IST) Subject: Installation of FreeBSD with other OSes To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.2b (Intl) 16 December 1999 Message-ID: From: Uri.Shenderovich@ecitele.com Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 14:04:45 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on ILSMTP04/ECI Telecom(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at 02/04/2001 02:08:22 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I was trying to install FreeBSD-4.1 with Windows98,Linux and Solaris-7. The installation itself finished without a hitch , but after reboot it turns out that FreeBSD wiped out the System Commander from the MBR , eventhough I choose the option not to install FreeBSD boot manager. I have a single IDE HD (IBM 30 Gb) and FreeBSD was installed within 1024 cylinders boundary at primary partition . The primary partition was created by Partition Magic. The first primary partition was occupied by Win98, at the 3d primary partion resided Linux and 4th one was supposed to be occupied by Solaris. As I said previously FreeBSD completely destroyed the MBR and more than this, now it's even not possible to boot FreeBSD. What I was doing wrong ? Maybe somebody encountered similar situation ? Thanks, Uri To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 4 4:35:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from uranus.interscope.ro (unknown [193.226.188.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F40237B4EC for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 04:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by URANUS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1FXYBDFK>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 14:30:27 +0200 Message-ID: From: Stefan KORONKA To: freebad Cc: 'faisal' Subject: RE: the right mailing list Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 14:30:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I think i am in the wrong list can you tell me which mailing list to > subscribe ? > i am new to freebsd have installed FreeBSD 4.0 in my 1386 > machine now i want > to ask technical questions > help me out please > > thanks > Faisal > as stated in http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL , freebsd-questions is for "User questions and technical support" stefan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 4 9:53:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.118.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D7C37B4EC for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:52:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff.concentric.net [206.173.118.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id MAA16278; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:52:55 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts003d13.mer-id.concentric.net (ts003d13.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.121]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id MAA23435; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:52:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 08:50:19 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke To: Stefan KORONKA Cc: freebad , "'faisal'" Subject: RE: the right mailing list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You want: questions@freebsd.org Suggestion: Do your homework. Read the areas of the handbook related to your question (you'll likely find it in /usr/share/doc) and read the FAQ as well. After these have failed you, _then_ ask your technical question. You'll also find good information when you follow the suggestions in the "First Aid Kit" as repeatedly shows up on this list. Second suggestion: If you should get flamed on questions, ignore it and keep on 'truckin. Welcome to FBSD. ML Duke > > I think i am in the wrong list can you tell me which mailing list to > > subscribe ? > > i am new to freebsd have installed FreeBSD 4.0 in my 1386 > > machine now i want > > to ask technical questions > > help me out please > > > > thanks > > Faisal > > > > as stated in > http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL , > > freebsd-questions is for "User questions and technical support" > > stefan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Feb 4 18:43:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D8637B69F for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:43:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 8D36D6A90D; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:12:59 +1030 (CST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:12:59 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: ML Duke Cc: Stefan KORONKA , freebad , 'faisal' Subject: Re: the right mailing list Message-ID: <20010205131259.F462@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from mlduke@concentric.net on Sun, Feb 04, 2001 at 08:50:19AM -0700 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 4 February 2001 at 8:50:19 -0700, ML Duke wrote: > >>> I think i am in the wrong list can you tell me which mailing list >>> to subscribe ? i am new to freebsd have installed FreeBSD 4.0 in >>> my 1386 machine now i want to ask technical questions help me out >>> please >> > You want: > questions@freebsd.org > > Suggestion: > Do your homework. Read the areas of the handbook related to your question > (you'll likely find it in /usr/share/doc) and read the FAQ as well. > After these have failed you, _then_ ask your technical question. > You'll also find good information when you follow the suggestions in > the "First Aid Kit" as repeatedly shows up on this list. > > Second suggestion: > If you should get flamed on questions, ignore it and keep on 'truckin. Another suggestion: before posting to FreeBSD-questions, read http://www.lemis.com/questions.html. This will both reduce the likelihood of being flamed and increase the likelihood of getting a useful answer. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Feb 5 7:34:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gateway1.spo.zumnet.com.br (unknown [200.183.47.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F39637B67D for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 07:34:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.spo.zumnet.com.br (rede-10.0.0-maquina-1 [10.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by gateway1.spo.zumnet.com.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA39501 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:34:18 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from elton@elton.spo.zumnet.com.br) Received: from ftp.spo.zumnet.com.br (rede-10.0.0-maquina-3 [10.0.0.3] (may be forged)) by mail.spo.zumnet.com.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA35461 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:34:18 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from elton@elton.spo.zumnet.com.br) Received: from elton.spo.zumnet.com.br (maquina-12 [192.168.254.12] (may be forged)) by ftp.spo.zumnet.com.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA88140 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:30:56 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from elton@elton.spo.zumnet.com.br) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 13:32:46 -0200 (EDT) Reply-To: elton@spo.zumnet.com.br Organization: Zumnet Provider From: Elton Clemente To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Feb 5 19: 1:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from coloradosurf.com (c769378-a.lakwod3.co.home.com [24.15.35.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDBBE37B401 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:01:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from heike ([172.16.1.2]) by coloradosurf.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA09390 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:57:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mike@coloradosurf.com) Message-ID: <003301c08fe9$63007460$020110ac@c769378a.lakwod3.co.home.com> From: "mike" To: Subject: limiting root process resources Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:02:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What I'm looking for here is more of a discussion about this issue (that is why I didn't put it to -questions). I apologize if this would be the wrong forum for this. Background: I'm running a few boxes which would seem to have a simple (common?) setup. Mostly they are remote 'web' boxes with the standard internet services (named,apache,sendmail,proftp,with ipfw). No users have shell access. I have used login.conf to limit the resources that 'nobody' has. What I would like input/discussion on is the following. I created a cron job that basically rsync'ed a backup to other locations. Unfortunately, it was a poorly designed program (since fixed) that ate up all of the resources (memory) and proceeded to create a sendmail queue of roughly 1/2 gig (which really helped out with my memory situation when sendmail choked on that). While this is somewhat amusing (if it doesn't happen to you), it gave the machines in question server loads greater than 15-25. Screeching halt. Fortunately, it was quickly resolved. So anyway ... What are people's experiences/opinions about setting resource limits on root processes (pros/cons)? While I expect I'll not do that again, it's always nice to have a safety net. Certainly, I would love to hear suggestions (other than "don't do that" or "write better code" - I freely admit that I am a dumbass so please lets move beyond that :). mike -have the lists in general been flame happy lately or what? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 6 6:49:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from coloradosurf.com (c769378-a.lakwod3.co.home.com [24.15.35.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4153937B65D for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 06:49:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mike@localhost) by coloradosurf.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10147; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 07:46:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mike) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 07:46:02 -0700 From: mike To: Adam LaBarge Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: limiting root process resources Message-ID: <20010206074602.A10117@coloradosurf.com> References: <003a01c09040$ce466340$020110ac@c769378a.lakwod3.co.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from phinger@best.com on Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 06:28:59AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Feb 06, 2001 at 06:28:59AM -0800, Adam LaBarge wrote: > I am not sure then why it would be taking your box down every now and > then. You could possible move your mail-server to a different machine, if > you have the resources. I think that mail servers and web servers should > be in two different boxes. I have hear ( if you are using send-mail ) that > it can do some wacky stuff sometimes that will eat the process of a > machine. Send mail can be put in a loop that will take down a > machine. Generally this only happens if some one decides to make it > happen....you could send your question to "question"... good luck. > -adam Actually, it only happened once, and directly because of a poorly written program (I have many other valuable skills :). My question for discussion was the idea of putting limits (say 80% of the CPU and xxM of mem) so that if I were stupid enough to do something like this again (to a remote machine). I would not have to increase my terminal emulators timeouts just to get on the box itself. Also, it would allow me to actually do something once I got on (instead of waiting for keystrokes to register). I'm interested in if people have done this and what positive/negative effects they might have experienced. mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 6 11:47:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (oe26.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.8.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 332F937B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:47:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:47:13 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [63.61.127.214] Reply-To: "Timothy E. Jones" From: "Timothy E. Jones" To: Subject: New Install Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:41:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01C09042.87E0C5B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2001 19:47:13.0074 (UTC) FILETIME=[99B54120:01C09075] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C09042.87E0C5B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am trying to dual boot BSD 4.0 and Win 2000 Professional. The install = goes fine. I selected to you easy boot. On reboot after install is completed I get the easy boot menu with F1 = for Win 2k and it work fine, F2 list BSD, but it will not accecpt any = keystrokes.=20 I checked the drive parms. per the book and they were listed correctly. Any Help? Timothy E. Jones ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C09042.87E0C5B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am trying to dual boot BSD 4.0 and = Win 2000=20 Professional. The install goes fine.
 
I selected to you easy = boot.
On reboot after install is completed I = get the easy=20 boot menu with F1 for Win 2k and it work fine, F2 list BSD, but it will = not=20 accecpt any keystrokes.
 
I checked the drive parms. per the book = and they=20 were listed correctly.
 
Any Help?
 
Timothy E.=20 Jones
------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C09042.87E0C5B0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 6 11:56: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D0437B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:55:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 671E718BD; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 04:19:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E59418BC; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 04:19:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 04:19:30 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hamell To: "Timothy E. Jones" Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New Install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please ask all technical questions in -questions... You may also want to check the mailing list archives at www.freebsd.org as this paticular question has been asked many, many times already on that list. Rick ******************************************************************* Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware ***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Timothy E. Jones wrote: > I am trying to dual boot BSD 4.0 and Win 2000 Professional. The install goes fine. > > I selected to you easy boot. > On reboot after install is completed I get the easy boot menu with F1 for Win 2k and it work fine, F2 list BSD, but it will not accecpt any keystrokes. > > I checked the drive parms. per the book and they were listed correctly. > > Any Help? > > Timothy E. Jones > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 6 14: 5:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC3D037B491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 14:05:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f16M4tH04643; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:04:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: doug owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:04:54 -0500 (EST) From: Doug Denault X-Sender: doug@fledge.watson.org To: Baron Von Sock Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Installing with Windows (was blank) In-Reply-To: <000a01c08e01$07550de0$42140841@glstnbry1.ct.home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org First you should always try to have a subject; that way you will get more people who know or are interested in your problem FreeBSD runs in its own partition. You may make a partition from either an extended DOS partition or you may compress a single partition and cut off some space to make a partition for FreeBSD. The utilities of interest are fips and presizer. If you have access to archives of FreeBSD questions, there is a great deal of information on this. On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Baron Von Sock wrote: > When I use FreeBSB do I have to repartition my hardrive, or does it run > over an existing windows partition? > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 6 20: 2:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f96.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C7637B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 20:02:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 20:02:24 -0800 Received: from 129.94.6.28 by lw4fd.law4.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 04:02:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.94.6.28] From: "Mikael Claesson" To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Switching from Linux Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:02:24 +1100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2001 04:02:24.0133 (UTC) FILETIME=[C6E11350:01C090BA] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've been using Linux as a desktop system for some time now, but I'm getting interested in BSD. What you should have is a big fat link on your front page that reads "Using Linux? Wanna switch?" and a nice section on the differences a resular user would need to know. Me, I'd like to know if I can still use Gnome, XMMS, Mozilla and all the other things I've gotten used to. I'd never switch if I'd have to give any of them up. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 6 20:24:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A0D37B503 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 20:23:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02219; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:23:47 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdCf2217; Wed Feb 7 14:23:40 2001 Message-ID: <00b001c090bd$d12a4180$847e03cb@apana.org.au> From: "Doug Young" To: "Mikael Claesson" , References: Subject: Re: Switching from Linux Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:23:59 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As far as I can tell, virtually every application of significance works in FreeBSD, with considerably improved reliability. The documentation is infinitely more intelligible than linux equivalents although its still dreadful compared with the Sun & the SCO offerings. I guess the main attraction however is the reliability. Its often claimed that FreeBSD is the most stable server platform of the lot ... the fact that a number of the busiest sites on the net run FreeBSD certainly seems to confirm this. We used to have a bunch of RedHat & Debian servers but the downtime was definitely reduced by changing to FreeBSD. Personally I can't imagine using FreeBSD for workstations though ... the GUI offerings are virtually the same as linux .... extremely poxy ... and getting halfway usable color printing from "common or garden variety" bubblej!!et printers is still akin to witchcraft. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mikael Claesson" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 2:02 PM Subject: Switching from Linux > I've been using Linux as a desktop system for some time now, but I'm getting > interested in BSD. What you should have is a big fat link on your front page > that reads "Using Linux? Wanna switch?" and a nice section on the > differences a resular user would need to know. > > Me, I'd like to know if I can still use Gnome, XMMS, Mozilla and all the > other things I've gotten used to. I'd never switch if I'd have to give any > of them up. > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 6 22:10:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (mail2.rdc1.il.home.com [24.2.1.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7663F37B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:10:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from marx.marvic.chum ([24.17.229.11]) by mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010207061017.FSWN25489.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com@marx.marvic.chum>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:10:17 -0800 Received: (from vcardona@localhost) by marx.marvic.chum (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id AAA00885; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 00:14:36 -0600 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 00:14:35 -0600 From: "Victor R. Cardona" To: Mikael Claesson Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Switching from Linux Message-ID: <20010207001435.B877@home.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from miclaes@hotmail.com on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 03:02:24PM +1100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 03:02:24PM +1100, Mikael Claesson wrote: > I've been using Linux as a desktop system for some time now, but I'm getting > interested in BSD. What you should have is a big fat link on your front page > that reads "Using Linux? Wanna switch?" and a nice section on the > differences a resular user would need to know. > > Me, I'd like to know if I can still use Gnome, XMMS, Mozilla and all the > other things I've gotten used to. I'd never switch if I'd have to give any > of them up. Yes you can use all of those. However, Linux's multimedia capabilities are slightly superior to those of FreeBSD. FreeBSD has been developed to function primarily as a server OS. -- Victor R. Cardona GnuPG Key fingerprint = 62B1 7995 A830 432C 74E8 1337 EDDB E682 3C76 7404 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 6 22:14:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from shell18.ba.best.com (shell18.ba.best.com [206.184.139.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D73D37B4EC for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:14:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (phinger@localhost) by shell18.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) with ESMTP id WAA27105 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:14:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 22:14:38 -0800 (PST) From: Adam LaBarge To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Javascipt news mail. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey does anybody know any good news groups like this but for javascript? Thanks -vex The best kind of justice is angry mob justice. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Feb 6 23: 1: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 830EB37B401 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:00:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from C996775-A ([24.16.193.228]) by femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010207070045.OHUL605.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@C996775-A> for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 23:00:45 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 07:00:51 +0000 From: Y X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f) Personal Reply-To: Y Organization: CCAAFF X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <171429868.20010207070051@home.com> To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Switching from Linux In-reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Mikael, http://sites.inka.de/mips/unix/bsdlinux.html Wednesday, February 07, 2001, 04:02:24, you wrote: MC> I've been using Linux as a desktop system for some time now, but I'm getting MC> interested in BSD. What you should have is a big fat link on your front page MC> that reads "Using Linux? Wanna switch?" and a nice section on the MC> differences a resular user would need to know. MC> Me, I'd like to know if I can still use Gnome, XMMS, Mozilla and all the MC> other things I've gotten used to. I'd never switch if I'd have to give any MC> of them up. -- Best regards, Y To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 7 1:44:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from itnetms1.itnet.co.uk (unknown [195.188.91.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08FD237B65D for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 01:43:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from itnet.co.uk (unverified) by itnetms1.itnet.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:25:15 +0000 Received: by itnet.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id 802569EC.00350786 ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:39:13 +0000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ITNET From: Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-ID: <802569EC.0035074A.00@itnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:42:35 +0000 Subject: SSH & SU Problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I have just installed a copy of current version of Freebsd but I am having some problems getting things working correctly. My main problem is that ssh is not working, it will allow me to connect one session but thats all, I can not connect any othersessions, and after I exit my ssh session I cannot reconnect again for 10 minutes or so, its as if sshd is not responding. My other problem is adding users to the wheel group, I have edited the /etc/group file so that the first line looks like this wheel:*:0:root:user1 But user1 still does not have the privs to su to the root user? Does anyone have any ideas? regards Graham *********************************************************************************** http://www.itnet.co.uk http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness capabilities Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer Service Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. *********************************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 7 1:48:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dunces.org (dunces.org [64.81.23.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293C337B503 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 01:48:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (czr@localhost) by dunces.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f17A5pd02204; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 02:05:52 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 02:05:51 -0800 (PST) From: To: Cc: Subject: Re: SSH & SU Problem In-Reply-To: <802569EC.0035074A.00@itnet.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org wheel:*:0:root,user1 try a comma On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk wrote: > > > Hi, > > I have just installed a copy of current version of Freebsd but I am having some > problems getting things working correctly. > > My main problem is that ssh is not working, it will allow me to connect one > session but thats all, I can not connect any othersessions, and after I exit my > ssh session I cannot reconnect again for 10 minutes or so, its as if sshd is not > responding. > > My other problem is adding users to the wheel group, I have edited the > /etc/group file so that the first line looks like this > > wheel:*:0:root:user1 > > But user1 still does not have the privs to su to the root user? > > Does anyone have any ideas? > > regards > > Graham > > > > > *********************************************************************************** > http://www.itnet.co.uk > http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness capabilities > > Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and > not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email > and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded > copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from > ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the > use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient > or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be > advised that you have received this email in error and that any use > is strictly prohibited. > > If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer Service > Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to > csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. > Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. > *********************************************************************************** > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 7 2:12:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0666F37B6B3; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 02:12:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from home.com ([65.5.120.39]) by femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010207101218.CRGG809.femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com@home.com>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 02:12:18 -0800 Message-ID: <3A81C86E.9CB96553@home.com> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:13:02 -0800 From: hawk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Sound Problem. References: <802569EC.0035074A.00@itnet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey all, im asking this on newbies because im sure other newbies have had this same problem. Due to the fact *nix systems are becomming more and more popular each and everyday, not only as high-end servers for startup companys, but as well as the home market. Im also asking on the questions list because well i need help ;) (blah blah, i cant belive i said that ;) anyways.. heres my question. Clean installed FreeBSD 4.2 The Generic Kernel. Now, how can i get sound on my Sound blaster 16b ISA (SB16b) to play, using say, mpg123. Ive seen my friend do it (whom i cant contact as of now) with no problems, however, well over a week of trying, i just cant get a single sound to play. Any help would be greatly apprciated. (it really is annoying to use windows for mp3s ;) -Hawk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 7 2:23:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from defiant.home.somerandomdomain.com (rr-26-93-155.atl.mediaone.net [66.26.93.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2059037B491; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 02:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jgalvin@localhost) by defiant.home.somerandomdomain.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f17ANR127142; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:23:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jgalvin@jgalvin.net) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:23:27 -0500 (EST) From: James Galvin X-Sender: jgalvin@defiant.home.somerandomdomain.com To: hawk Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sound Problem. In-Reply-To: <3A81C86E.9CB96553@home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Did you compile sound into the kernel? device pcm On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, hawk wrote: > Hey all, im asking this on newbies because im sure other newbies have had this > same problem. Due to the fact *nix systems are becomming more and more > popular each and everyday, not only as high-end servers for startup companys, > but as well as the home market. Im also asking on the questions list because well > i need help ;) > > (blah blah, i cant belive i said that ;) > anyways.. heres my question. > > Clean installed FreeBSD 4.2 The Generic Kernel. > Now, how can i get sound on my Sound blaster 16b ISA (SB16b) > to play, using say, mpg123. Ive seen my friend do it (whom i cant contact as of now) > with no problems, however, well over a week of trying, i just cant get a single sound > to > play. Any help would be greatly apprciated. (it really is annoying to use windows for > mp3s ;) > > > -Hawk > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > - James Galvin, jgalvin@jgalvin.net - http://www.jgalvin.net/ - PAL: jgalvin@mindspring.net - Y!: jamesg546 - AIM: Jimmy546 - ICQ: 3556033 "Calm down -- it's only zeros and ones" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 7 8:51:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.cdknet.com (mail.cdknet.com [206.20.234.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB2937B503 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 08:51:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from glass ([192.168.0.25]) by mail.cdknet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA47896 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:55:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dyu@cdknet.com) Reply-To: From: "dyu" To: Subject: Migrating.... Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:50:51 -0500 Message-ID: <005c01c09126$2184f400$1900a8c0@glass> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dear all, I plan to migrate my existing sendmail server, which is running FreeBSD 3.x with sendmail 8.9.x, to a new server box. i plan to install the lastest version of FreeBSD and sendmail. My questions are follow: 1). How can i copy all the email accounts to my new server without redo them again? what are the steps? 2). Are the system login accounts the same as the email accounts in sendmail? If not, how do i copy them also? Please let me know what do i have to do with steps in sequence. Thanks, Derrick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 7 10:58:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from cell-works.com (w130.z064220255.trn-nj.dsl.cnc.net [64.220.255.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6869237B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:58:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by cell-works.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14064 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:11:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from john@cell-works.com) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:11:23 -0500 (EST) From: John Daniel To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: enscript Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm looking for an .enscriptrc file I can use as the basis for learning how to configure the options for enscript. Anybody got one they can send me? A website ? That talks about configuring it? TIA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Never trust a Fat accountant or a skinny Santa Claus. -BD ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 7 21:29:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from www.buhbird.com (146-115-65-75.c3-0.bkl-ubr2.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com [146.115.65.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0E037B67D for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from buhbird.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.buhbird.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f185TdV14814 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 00:29:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kevin@buhbird.com) Message-ID: <3A822EC3.2030805@buhbird.com> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 00:29:39 -0500 From: Kevin Duffy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010110 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 7 22:20:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bryden.apana.org.au (bryden.apana.org.au [203.3.126.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B29E37B65D; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:19:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from roadrunner (roadrunner.apana.org.au [203.3.126.132]) by bryden.apana.org.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f186JhK10907; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:19:46 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@bryden.apana.org.au) Message-ID: <002e01c09197$323fb8e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> From: "Doug Young" To: , Subject: Non-profit "ISPs" using FreeBSD Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:20:08 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01C091EB.01464B60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C091EB.01464B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone interested in ISP type use of FreeBSD might be interested in the = following http://www.lariat.org/index.html http://www.apana.org.au =20 Maybe also of interest to those seeking affordable but highly reliable = internet access in yankeeland.=20 The setup at lariat.org looks somewhat similar to what Apana does in OZ, = except that we provide a permanent connectivity option as well as = dialup. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C091EB.01464B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anyone interested in ISP type use of = FreeBSD might=20 be interested in the following http://www.lariat.org/index.htm= l
 
http://www.apana.org.au
=
 
<commercial>
 
Maybe also of interest to those=20 seeking affordable but highly reliable internet access in = yankeeland.=20
 
The setup at lariat.org looks somewhat = similar to=20 what Apana does in OZ, except that we provide a permanent connectivity = option as=20 well as dialup.
 
</end = commercial>
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C091EB.01464B60-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 7 23:25:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E6837B401 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:25:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f1877dN82668; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:07:39 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:07:39 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Mikael Claesson Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Switching from Linux Message-ID: <20010208070739.A82647@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from miclaes@hotmail.com on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 03:02:24PM +1100 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 03:02:24PM +1100, Mikael Claesson wrote: > I've been using Linux as a desktop system for some time now, but I'm getting > interested in BSD. What you should have is a big fat link on your front page > that reads "Using Linux? Wanna switch?" and a nice section on the > differences a resular user would need to know. I have been asking, for roughly the past three years, for any of our users who are already familiar with Linux, and have made the switch, to write something like this. So far, no one's volunteered. Actually, that's not true. Several people have volunteered, and then never produced anything. I would be over the moon if someone who knows a Linux distribution would make a start on this. Any takers? N (Doc. Project Manager) -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Feb 7 23:27:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 118AC37B401; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f1878mI82672; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:08:48 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:08:48 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: hawk Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sound Problem. Message-ID: <20010208070848.B82647@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> References: <802569EC.0035074A.00@itnet.co.uk> <3A81C86E.9CB96553@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A81C86E.9CB96553@home.com>; from cyberhawk@home.com on Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 02:13:02PM -0800 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Don't ask questions on -newbies. On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 02:13:02PM -0800, hawk wrote: > Clean installed FreeBSD 4.2 The Generic Kernel. > Now, how can i get sound on my Sound blaster 16b ISA (SB16b) Read the Handbook. It has a chapter devoted to sound. N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 1:23: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from itnetms1.itnet.co.uk (unknown [195.188.91.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 614E937B6A0 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:22:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from itnet.co.uk (unverified) by itnetms1.itnet.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:04:13 +0000 Received: by itnet.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id 802569ED.00331BAA ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:18:14 +0000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ITNET From: Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-ID: <802569ED.00331B0C.00@itnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:21:31 +0000 Subject: SSH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Can anyone tell me why it is taking so long to log in via ssh, its currently taking about 2 minutes from entering my password to getting a shell prompt, is this right? if not any ideas what could be causing it? Graham *********************************************************************************** http://www.itnet.co.uk http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness capabilities Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer Service Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. *********************************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 1:26:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D912837B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:26:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03949; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:26:14 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdoo3947; Thu Feb 8 19:26:10 2001 Message-ID: <00c901c091b1$3ce2a860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> From: "Doug Young" To: , References: <802569ED.00331B0C.00@itnet.co.uk> Subject: Re: SSH Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:26:29 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As far as I know thats normal ..... every SSH login I've ever seen has taken about 2 minutes ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:21 PM Subject: SSH > > > Hi, > > Can anyone tell me why it is taking so long to log in via ssh, its currently > taking about 2 minutes from entering my password to getting a shell prompt, is > this right? if not any ideas what could be causing it? > > Graham > > > > > **************************************************************************** ******* > http://www.itnet.co.uk > http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness capabilities > > Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and > not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email > and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded > copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from > ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the > use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient > or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be > advised that you have received this email in error and that any use > is strictly prohibited. > > If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer Service > Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to > csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. > Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. > **************************************************************************** ******* > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 1:36:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from itnetms1.itnet.co.uk (unknown [195.188.91.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01BFF37B491 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:36:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from itnet.co.uk (unverified) by itnetms1.itnet.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:17:43 +0000 Received: by itnet.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id 802569ED.003457F1 ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:31:43 +0000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ITNET From: Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk To: "Doug Young" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <802569ED.00345606.00@itnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:35:02 +0000 Subject: Re: SSH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm just wondering as my linux boxes take a few seconds and they are running OpenSSH as well, so I don't understand why the FreeBSD version is so much slower. Graham *********************************************************************************** http://www.itnet.co.uk http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness capabilities Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer Service Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. *********************************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 1:37:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dunces.org (dunces.org [64.81.23.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D3637B491 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:36:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (czr@localhost) by dunces.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f189sYg02828; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:54:34 -0800 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:54:34 -0800 (PST) From: To: Doug Young Cc: , Subject: Re: SSH In-Reply-To: <00c901c091b1$3ce2a860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think this may have something to do with the client setup. I can log into my slackware, or FreeBSD machines with putty and i can login pretty much immediately. When i actually use SSH on a *nix box though it takes forever... thats my 2 cents. Burke On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Doug Young wrote: > As far as I know thats normal ..... every SSH login I've ever seen has taken > about 2 minutes > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:21 PM > Subject: SSH > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Can anyone tell me why it is taking so long to log in via ssh, its > currently > > taking about 2 minutes from entering my password to getting a shell > prompt, is > > this right? if not any ideas what could be causing it? > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > **************************************************************************** > ******* > > http://www.itnet.co.uk > > http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness > capabilities > > > > Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and > > not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email > > and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded > > copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from > > ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the > > use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient > > or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be > > advised that you have received this email in error and that any use > > is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer > Service > > Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to > > csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. > > Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. > > > **************************************************************************** > ******* > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 1:40: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from itnetms1.itnet.co.uk (unknown [195.188.91.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04E4937B503 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:39:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from itnet.co.uk (unverified) by itnetms1.itnet.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:21:11 +0000 Received: by itnet.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id 802569ED.0034A860 ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:35:09 +0000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ITNET From: Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk To: czr@dunces.org Cc: Doug Young , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <802569ED.0034A83F.00@itnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:38:33 +0000 Subject: Re: SSH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm using putty on the windows 98 box, but I have noticed that if there are no connections to sshd then I can login straight away but if i try to start another session then thats when it starts taking 2 minutes to login. Graham *********************************************************************************** http://www.itnet.co.uk http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness capabilities Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer Service Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. *********************************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 1:47:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop1pub.verizon.net (smtppop1pub.gte.net [206.46.170.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE9A37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 01:47:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nightmare (lsanca1-ar7-112-085.biz.dsl.gtei.net [4.35.112.85]) by smtppop1pub.verizon.net with SMTP ; id DAA55766305 Thu, 8 Feb 2001 03:41:03 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <00b301c091b4$35c64160$6401a8c0@nightmare> Reply-To: "Nighthawk" From: "Nighthawk" To: "Doug Young" , , References: <802569ED.00331B0C.00@itnet.co.uk> <00c901c091b1$3ce2a860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> Subject: Re: SSH Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:47:50 -1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > As far as I know thats normal ..... every SSH login I've ever seen has taken > about 2 minutes I have to disagree, I've never seen a properly working ssh login take that long and I login daily to and from lowly 486 and pentium machines. Perhaps you could post your question, any relevant details, plus a copy of your ssh configuration files to the freebsd-questions list where someone is more likely to be able to help you out. I doubt the delay is caused by the ssh configuration itself, but maybe someone in questions could take a look and suggest what else might affect it. Oh, and be sure to include your discovery that the login delay seems to occur when you try to start additional sessions. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:21 PM > Subject: SSH > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Can anyone tell me why it is taking so long to log in via ssh, its > currently > > taking about 2 minutes from entering my password to getting a shell > prompt, is > > this right? if not any ideas what could be causing it? > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************ **** > ******* > > http://www.itnet.co.uk > > http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness > capabilities > > > > Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and > > not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email > > and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded > > copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from > > ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the > > use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient > > or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be > > advised that you have received this email in error and that any use > > is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer > Service > > Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to > > csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. > > Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. > > > ************************************************************************ **** > ******* > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 2:23:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9602537B4EC for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 02:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f18ALQF88845; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:21:28 GMT (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Doug Young" , , Subject: RE: SSH Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 02:22:23 -0800 Message-ID: <004301c091b9$06817aa0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <00c901c091b1$3ce2a860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've seen the 2 minute login problem on systems before. What you want to do is on the system that your telnetting or SSHing _to_ is you want to temporarily rename /etc/resolv.conf to something else. Then, logout and log back in. If the 2 minute delay disappears (which most of the time this will fix it) then what is going on is that the FreeBSD system is seeing the incoming Telnet or SSH request from you and is then issuing a DNS lookup for the Reverse Address Record for the IP number that your coming in from - and the DNS server that it's using is timing out. FreeBSD does this in order to write a log entry for the activity that contains the real name of the host, not just it's IP number. Most of the time DNS servers will fail on reverse address queries is because the authority responsible for numbering has not properly configured PTR lookups. If it's a public IP number then the numbering authority is the ISP you got the number from. If it's a RFC1918 number that you assigned, then your it. And, note that simply having an empty PTR record for the IP number in the DNS is not going to produce this problem - the misconfiguration has to be more serious than that. Common examples are ISP's that specify IP numbers of old nameservers in ARIN's records (that are subsequently taken down) or administrators that set up private DNS servers that cannot make PTR lookups. (often for RFC1918 number ranges) The remaining time that the DNS lookups usually will fail is if an IP number for a nameserver that is specified in /etc/rc.conf is unreachable. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Doug Young > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 1:26 AM > To: Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: SSH > > > As far as I know thats normal ..... every SSH login I've ever > seen has taken > about 2 minutes > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:21 PM > Subject: SSH > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Can anyone tell me why it is taking so long to log in via ssh, its > currently > > taking about 2 minutes from entering my password to getting a shell > prompt, is > > this right? if not any ideas what could be causing it? > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > ********** > ******* > > http://www.itnet.co.uk > > http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness > capabilities > > > > Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and > > not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email > > and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded > > copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from > > ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the > > use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient > > or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be > > advised that you have received this email in error and that any use > > is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer > Service > > Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to > > csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. > > Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. > > > ****************************************************************** > ********** > ******* > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 2:34: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D37E37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 02:33:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04063; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:33:30 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdCl4061; Thu Feb 8 20:33:25 2001 Message-ID: <012801c091ba$a14d0da0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> From: "Doug Young" To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" , , References: <004301c091b9$06817aa0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Subject: Re: SSH Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:33:49 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org That sounds a probable factor in many cases, however I get two minute SSH logins when the machine I'm logging into is the same as one of the nameservers ... one of them is on my LAN only a matter of inches / millimeters away. In all cases where I've used SSH, public IPs have been used at both ends. I've just put it down to the neanderthal phone network in OZ, particularly when its noticeably worse in peak times. I guess it could be that two of the three nameservers are "unavailable" within the timeout period.but dunno why the one on my LAN should be unavailable though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Doug Young" ; ; Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:22 PM Subject: RE: SSH > I've seen the 2 minute login problem on systems before. > > What you want to do is on the system that your telnetting > or SSHing _to_ is you want to temporarily rename /etc/resolv.conf > to something else. Then, logout and log back in. If the > 2 minute delay disappears (which most of the time this will > fix it) then what is going on is that the FreeBSD system is > seeing the incoming Telnet or SSH request from you and is > then issuing a DNS lookup for the Reverse Address Record for > the IP number that your coming in from - and the DNS server > that it's using is timing out. FreeBSD does this in order to > write a log entry for the activity that contains the real name > of the host, not just it's IP number. > > Most of the time DNS servers will fail on reverse address > queries is because the authority responsible for numbering > has not properly configured PTR lookups. If it's a public > IP number then the numbering authority is the ISP you got > the number from. If it's a RFC1918 number that you assigned, > then your it. And, note that simply having an empty PTR > record for the IP number in the DNS is not going to produce > this problem - the misconfiguration has to be more serious than > that. Common examples are ISP's that specify IP numbers of old > nameservers in ARIN's records (that are subsequently taken down) > or administrators that set up private DNS servers that cannot > make PTR lookups. (often for RFC1918 number ranges) > > The remaining time that the DNS lookups usually will fail is > if an IP number for a nameserver that is specified in /etc/rc.conf > is unreachable. > > Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com > Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide > Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Doug Young > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 1:26 AM > > To: Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: SSH > > > > > > As far as I know thats normal ..... every SSH login I've ever > > seen has taken > > about 2 minutes > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:21 PM > > Subject: SSH > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Can anyone tell me why it is taking so long to log in via ssh, its > > currently > > > taking about 2 minutes from entering my password to getting a shell > > prompt, is > > > this right? if not any ideas what could be causing it? > > > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > ********** > > ******* > > > http://www.itnet.co.uk > > > http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness > > capabilities > > > > > > Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and > > > not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email > > > and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded > > > copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from > > > ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the > > > use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient > > > or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be > > > advised that you have received this email in error and that any use > > > is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer > > Service > > > Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to > > > csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. > > > Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > ********** > > ******* > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 2:57: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from itnetms1.itnet.co.uk (unknown [195.188.91.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E7137B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 02:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from itnet.co.uk (unverified) by itnetms1.itnet.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:38:05 +0000 Received: by itnet.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id 802569ED.003BB21D ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:52:02 +0000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ITNET From: Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" Cc: "Doug Young" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <802569ED.003BB18E.00@itnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:55:23 +0000 Subject: RE: SSH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Cheers everyone, it was a DNS problem, thanks for the quick responses. Regards Graham *********************************************************************************** http://www.itnet.co.uk http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness capabilities Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer Service Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. *********************************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 3:53:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2117337B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 03:53:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f18BoIF89030; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:50:18 GMT (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Doug Young" , , Subject: RE: SSH Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 03:51:14 -0800 Message-ID: <005501c091c5$70090cc0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <012801c091ba$a14d0da0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You should still try the /etc/resolv.conf trick for testing even for the nameserver itself. The nameserver daemon pays no attention to the contents of /etc/resolv.conf. It's not a problem to set a nameserver so that you cannot lookup names from a command line. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Doug Young > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 2:34 AM > To: Ted Mittelstaedt; Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk; > freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: SSH > > > That sounds a probable factor in many cases, however I get two minute SSH > logins when the machine I'm logging into is the same as one of the > nameservers ... one of them is on my LAN only a matter of inches / > millimeters away. > > In all cases where I've used SSH, public IPs have been used at both ends. > I've just put it down to the neanderthal phone network in OZ, particularly > when its noticeably worse in peak times. I guess it could be that > two of the > three nameservers are "unavailable" within the timeout period.but > dunno why > the one on my LAN should be unavailable though. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" > To: "Doug Young" ; > ; > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:22 PM > Subject: RE: SSH > > > > I've seen the 2 minute login problem on systems before. > > > > What you want to do is on the system that your telnetting > > or SSHing _to_ is you want to temporarily rename /etc/resolv.conf > > to something else. Then, logout and log back in. If the > > 2 minute delay disappears (which most of the time this will > > fix it) then what is going on is that the FreeBSD system is > > seeing the incoming Telnet or SSH request from you and is > > then issuing a DNS lookup for the Reverse Address Record for > > the IP number that your coming in from - and the DNS server > > that it's using is timing out. FreeBSD does this in order to > > write a log entry for the activity that contains the real name > > of the host, not just it's IP number. > > > > Most of the time DNS servers will fail on reverse address > > queries is because the authority responsible for numbering > > has not properly configured PTR lookups. If it's a public > > IP number then the numbering authority is the ISP you got > > the number from. If it's a RFC1918 number that you assigned, > > then your it. And, note that simply having an empty PTR > > record for the IP number in the DNS is not going to produce > > this problem - the misconfiguration has to be more serious than > > that. Common examples are ISP's that specify IP numbers of old > > nameservers in ARIN's records (that are subsequently taken down) > > or administrators that set up private DNS servers that cannot > > make PTR lookups. (often for RFC1918 number ranges) > > > > The remaining time that the DNS lookups usually will fail is > > if an IP number for a nameserver that is specified in /etc/rc.conf > > is unreachable. > > > > Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com > > Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide > > Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Doug Young > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 1:26 AM > > > To: Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > > Subject: Re: SSH > > > > > > > > > As far as I know thats normal ..... every SSH login I've ever > > > seen has taken > > > about 2 minutes > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:21 PM > > > Subject: SSH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me why it is taking so long to log in via ssh, its > > > currently > > > > taking about 2 minutes from entering my password to getting a shell > > > prompt, is > > > > this right? if not any ideas what could be causing it? > > > > > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > > ********** > > > ******* > > > > http://www.itnet.co.uk > > > > http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness > > > capabilities > > > > > > > > Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and > > > > not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. > This email > > > > and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded > > > > copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from > > > > ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and > solely for the > > > > use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient > > > > or the person responsible for delivering to the intended > recipient, be > > > > advised that you have received this email in error and that any use > > > > is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > > > If you have received this email in error please notify > ITNET Customer > > > Service > > > > Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to > > > > csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. > > > > Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > > ********** > > > ******* > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 5:28:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bsd.sixpak.net (adsl-151-204-22-8.adsl.bellatlantic.net [151.204.22.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1FED37B684 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 05:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mike (mike.sixpak.net [192.168.10.2]) by bsd.sixpak.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f18DSFF03949; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:28:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sixpak.net) Message-ID: <002f01c091d3$2a503380$020aa8c0@sixpak.net> From: "Mike" To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" , References: <004301c091b9$06817aa0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Subject: Re: SSH Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:29:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org WOW! Now this is a complete answer... How to fix... and WHY. I just want to say Thanks . Oh... and 2 minutes is ridiculous. From PW to prompt should be < 2 seconds. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Doug Young" ; ; Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 5:22 AM Subject: RE: SSH > I've seen the 2 minute login problem on systems before. > > What you want to do is on the system that your telnetting > or SSHing _to_ is you want to temporarily rename /etc/resolv.conf > to something else. Then, logout and log back in. If the > 2 minute delay disappears (which most of the time this will > fix it) then what is going on is that the FreeBSD system is > seeing the incoming Telnet or SSH request from you and is > then issuing a DNS lookup for the Reverse Address Record for > the IP number that your coming in from - and the DNS server > that it's using is timing out. FreeBSD does this in order to > write a log entry for the activity that contains the real name > of the host, not just it's IP number. > > Most of the time DNS servers will fail on reverse address > queries is because the authority responsible for numbering > has not properly configured PTR lookups. If it's a public > IP number then the numbering authority is the ISP you got > the number from. If it's a RFC1918 number that you assigned, > then your it. And, note that simply having an empty PTR > record for the IP number in the DNS is not going to produce > this problem - the misconfiguration has to be more serious than > that. Common examples are ISP's that specify IP numbers of old > nameservers in ARIN's records (that are subsequently taken down) > or administrators that set up private DNS servers that cannot > make PTR lookups. (often for RFC1918 number ranges) > > The remaining time that the DNS lookups usually will fail is > if an IP number for a nameserver that is specified in /etc/rc.conf > is unreachable. > > Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com > Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide > Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Doug Young > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 1:26 AM > > To: Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: SSH > > > > > > As far as I know thats normal ..... every SSH login I've ever > > seen has taken > > about 2 minutes > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:21 PM > > Subject: SSH > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Can anyone tell me why it is taking so long to log in via ssh, its > > currently > > > taking about 2 minutes from entering my password to getting a shell > > prompt, is > > > this right? if not any ideas what could be causing it? > > > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > ********** > > ******* > > > http://www.itnet.co.uk > > > http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness > > capabilities > > > > > > Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and > > > not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email > > > and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded > > > copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from > > > ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the > > > use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient > > > or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be > > > advised that you have received this email in error and that any use > > > is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer > > Service > > > Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to > > > csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. > > > Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > ********** > > ******* > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 5:47:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bsd.sixpak.net (adsl-151-204-22-8.adsl.bellatlantic.net [151.204.22.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EAC637B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 05:47:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mike (mike.sixpak.net [192.168.10.2]) by bsd.sixpak.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f18DlWF03979 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:47:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sixpak.net) Message-ID: <003701c091d5$dadc34e0$020aa8c0@sixpak.net> From: "Mike" To: Subject: Security Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:48:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My box has been scanned very aggressivly this past week. I've got some concerns over the security of my box especially since I've had to open up the incoming UDP on all ports > 1024 and now have also enabled IDENT in order to use IRC. Is it even safe to run ident? Do I have other options or must I give up IRC? Why did I have to open up UDP for web browsing to work? How do I close the SunRPC port? Getting Paranoid - You ARE being watched :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 7:21:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bne004m.webcentral.com.au (bne004m.webcentral.com.au [202.139.235.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 45D3B37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:21:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 20102 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 15:21:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warhawk) (203.147.160.224) by bne004m.webcentral.com.au with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 15:21:16 -0000 Message-ID: <001b01c091e3$51d3e9a0$0100a8c0@warhawk> From: "Haikal Saadh" To: "Nik Clayton" , "Mikael Claesson" Cc: References: <20010208070739.A82647@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> Subject: Re: Switching from Linux Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 01:25:07 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FWIW, I've tried redhat6.2, and while I know freebsd better than I know linux. /etc under freebsd makes more sense to me than /etc on linux. I hate all those runlevels and stuff...normal mode and single user mode are all I need. I like to think of single user mode as analogous to the Windows 'safe' mode, but without the annoying reboot to get in or out of it. Also, fbsd's installation, while not as pretty, did the job better than a RH default install.....you can't even find ifconfig with that thing.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nik Clayton" To: "Mikael Claesson" Cc: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 5:07 PM Subject: Re: Switching from Linux > On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 03:02:24PM +1100, Mikael Claesson wrote: > > I've been using Linux as a desktop system for some time now, but I'm getting > > interested in BSD. What you should have is a big fat link on your front page > > that reads "Using Linux? Wanna switch?" and a nice section on the > > differences a resular user would need to know. > > I have been asking, for roughly the past three years, for any of our > users who are already familiar with Linux, and have made the switch, to > write something like this. > > So far, no one's volunteered. Actually, that's not true. Several > people have volunteered, and then never produced anything. > > I would be over the moon if someone who knows a Linux distribution would > make a start on this. Any takers? > > N (Doc. Project Manager) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 7:38:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dunces.org (dunces.org [64.81.23.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DF5437B491; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:38:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (czr@localhost) by dunces.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f18FtFu03089; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:55:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:55:14 -0800 (PST) From: To: Haikal Saadh Cc: Nik Clayton , Mikael Claesson , Subject: Re: Switching from Linux In-Reply-To: <001b01c091e3$51d3e9a0$0100a8c0@warhawk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org redhat isnt the best stick to do your measuring with though. Ive used slackware for quite a while now and I like it as much as FreeBSD anyday. Debian is a nice package as well.... Burke On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Haikal Saadh wrote: > FWIW, I've tried redhat6.2, and while I know freebsd better than > I know linux. /etc under freebsd makes more sense to me than > /etc on linux. I hate all those runlevels and stuff...normal mode and > single user mode are all I need. I like to think of single user mode > as analogous to the Windows 'safe' mode, but without the annoying > reboot to get in or out of it. > > Also, fbsd's installation, while not as pretty, did the job better than > a RH default install.....you can't even find ifconfig with that thing.... > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nik Clayton" > To: "Mikael Claesson" > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 5:07 PM > Subject: Re: Switching from Linux > > > > On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 03:02:24PM +1100, Mikael Claesson wrote: > > > I've been using Linux as a desktop system for some time now, but I'm > getting > > > interested in BSD. What you should have is a big fat link on your front > page > > > that reads "Using Linux? Wanna switch?" and a nice section on the > > > differences a resular user would need to know. > > > > I have been asking, for roughly the past three years, for any of our > > users who are already familiar with Linux, and have made the switch, to > > write something like this. > > > > So far, no one's volunteered. Actually, that's not true. Several > > people have volunteered, and then never produced anything. > > > > I would be over the moon if someone who knows a Linux distribution would > > make a start on this. Any takers? > > > > N (Doc. Project Manager) > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 7:39:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC5D37B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 07:39:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 835D818BE; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 00:03:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A95E18BC; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 00:03:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 00:03:23 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hamell To: Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SSH In-Reply-To: <802569ED.00331B0C.00@itnet.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Can anyone tell me why it is taking so long to log in via ssh, its currently > taking about 2 minutes from entering my password to getting a shell prompt, is > this right? if not any ideas what could be causing it? Please ask all technical questions in -questions. That is what it is for. :) You'll get more and better answers then you will here. -Newbies if for general newbies discussions. :) Rick ******************************************************************* Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware ***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 9: 7:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail9.wlv.netzero.net (mail9.wlv.netzero.net [209.247.163.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9C09337B65D for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:07:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22144 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 16:18:00 -0000 Received: from ip105.montreal109.dialup.canada.psi.net (HELO pavilion) (154.20.6.105) by mail9.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 16:18:00 -0000 Message-ID: <002c01c09203$01eadbe0$74ecfea9@pavilion> From: "Edouard Saksonov" To: Subject: subscribe Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:11:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C091BF.EFE1AF20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C091BF.EFE1AF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would like to subscribe for halp information ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C091BF.EFE1AF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I would like to = subscribe for=20 halp information
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C091BF.EFE1AF20-- Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 10:25:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4C637B401; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:25:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA4746; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:29:50 -0800 Message-ID: <3A82E3D9.99D97040@acuson.com> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:22:17 -0800 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nik Clayton Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Switching from Linux References: <20010208070739.A82647@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Nik Clayton wrote: > I would be over the moon if someone who knows a Linux distribution would > make a start on this. Any takers? I've thought about this, but I don't think I'd be good at it. I use FreeBSD as a desktop machine and development platform, but I've never use it as a server of any kind. So if I wrote any comparisons between FreeBSD and Linux, I would be ignoring its strengths (server), saying there's no difference between the two (development), then pointing out all the annoying quirks (desktop). Also, since all Linuces are installed and maintained differently from each other, it would be hard to compare a single FreeBSD versus the whole Linux family. And I suspect that you would want more than just a comparison between FreeBSD and the Linux kernel with GNU environment. Comparing it with Redhat or Suse, FreeBSD would win hands down. But comparing it to Slackware or Debian would result in a much closer race. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 14:19:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F56B37B6EE for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:18:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04707; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 08:18:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdlJ4705; Fri Feb 9 08:18:20 2001 Message-ID: <024f01c0921d$1d1cafa0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> From: "Doug Young" To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" , , References: <005501c091c5$70090cc0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Subject: Re: SSH Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 08:18:30 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org yeah OK ......I'll certainly try that ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Doug Young" ; ; Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:51 PM Subject: RE: SSH > You should still try the /etc/resolv.conf trick for testing > even for the nameserver itself. The nameserver daemon pays > no attention to the contents of /etc/resolv.conf. It's not > a problem to set a nameserver so that you cannot lookup names > from a command line. > > Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com > Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide > Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Doug Young > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 2:34 AM > > To: Ted Mittelstaedt; Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk; > > freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: SSH > > > > > > That sounds a probable factor in many cases, however I get two minute SSH > > logins when the machine I'm logging into is the same as one of the > > nameservers ... one of them is on my LAN only a matter of inches / > > millimeters away. > > > > In all cases where I've used SSH, public IPs have been used at both ends. > > I've just put it down to the neanderthal phone network in OZ, particularly > > when its noticeably worse in peak times. I guess it could be that > > two of the > > three nameservers are "unavailable" within the timeout period.but > > dunno why > > the one on my LAN should be unavailable though. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" > > To: "Doug Young" ; > > ; > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:22 PM > > Subject: RE: SSH > > > > > > > I've seen the 2 minute login problem on systems before. > > > > > > What you want to do is on the system that your telnetting > > > or SSHing _to_ is you want to temporarily rename /etc/resolv.conf > > > to something else. Then, logout and log back in. If the > > > 2 minute delay disappears (which most of the time this will > > > fix it) then what is going on is that the FreeBSD system is > > > seeing the incoming Telnet or SSH request from you and is > > > then issuing a DNS lookup for the Reverse Address Record for > > > the IP number that your coming in from - and the DNS server > > > that it's using is timing out. FreeBSD does this in order to > > > write a log entry for the activity that contains the real name > > > of the host, not just it's IP number. > > > > > > Most of the time DNS servers will fail on reverse address > > > queries is because the authority responsible for numbering > > > has not properly configured PTR lookups. If it's a public > > > IP number then the numbering authority is the ISP you got > > > the number from. If it's a RFC1918 number that you assigned, > > > then your it. And, note that simply having an empty PTR > > > record for the IP number in the DNS is not going to produce > > > this problem - the misconfiguration has to be more serious than > > > that. Common examples are ISP's that specify IP numbers of old > > > nameservers in ARIN's records (that are subsequently taken down) > > > or administrators that set up private DNS servers that cannot > > > make PTR lookups. (often for RFC1918 number ranges) > > > > > > The remaining time that the DNS lookups usually will fail is > > > if an IP number for a nameserver that is specified in /etc/rc.conf > > > is unreachable. > > > > > > Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com > > > Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide > > > Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Doug Young > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 1:26 AM > > > > To: Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > > > Subject: Re: SSH > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know thats normal ..... every SSH login I've ever > > > > seen has taken > > > > about 2 minutes > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:21 PM > > > > Subject: SSH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me why it is taking so long to log in via ssh, its > > > > currently > > > > > taking about 2 minutes from entering my password to getting a shell > > > > prompt, is > > > > > this right? if not any ideas what could be causing it? > > > > > > > > > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > > > ********** > > > > ******* > > > > > http://www.itnet.co.uk > > > > > http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness > > > > capabilities > > > > > > > > > > Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and > > > > > not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. > > This email > > > > > and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded > > > > > copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from > > > > > ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and > > solely for the > > > > > use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient > > > > > or the person responsible for delivering to the intended > > recipient, be > > > > > advised that you have received this email in error and that any use > > > > > is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > > > > > If you have received this email in error please notify > > ITNET Customer > > > > Service > > > > > Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to > > > > > csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. > > > > > Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. > > > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > > > > ********** > > > > ******* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 16:38:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.inficad.com (mail.inficad.com [207.19.74.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295B937B67D for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:37:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from inficad.com (www.inficad.com [207.19.74.19]) by mail.inficad.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f190bwT00647 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:37:58 -0700 (MST) From: Robert Daniels Message-Id: <200102090037.f190bwT00647@mail.inficad.com> X-Spam-Filter: check_local by digitalanswers.org Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:35:35 z (MST) To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD 4.2 ISO X-Mailer: AtDot 2.0.1+joeym X-URL: http://www.inficad.com/ Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I downloaded FreeBSD 4.2 and 4.11 from FreeBSD.org. It installed fine until i tried to add packages. It failed on everything except emacs. I have a copy of FreeBSD 4.0 and it installed the packages fine all on the first CD. Do I need to download anything else from FREEBSD.org other than the ISO. Any help would be apreciated. Thank You, Robert Daniels Powered by AtDot (AtDot 2.0.1+joeym) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 16:45:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bsd.sixpak.net (adsl-151-204-22-8.adsl.bellatlantic.net [151.204.22.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E04D437B401 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:45:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mike (mike.sixpak.net [192.168.10.2]) by bsd.sixpak.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f190jUF04684; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:45:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sixpak.net) Message-ID: <008601c09231$afcbdd80$020aa8c0@sixpak.net> From: "Mike" To: "Robert Daniels" , References: <200102090037.f190bwT00647@mail.inficad.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 4.2 ISO Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:46:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You don't even need the ISO. Just create your two Freebsd 4.2 floppies (kernel and mfsroot) and do a network (I used ftp) install. Very simple to do and you get the packages you need. After that I had no problems getting various ports. I on the other hand had tons of problems with the 4.0 cd. Guess it depends on your hardware somehow. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Daniels" To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 5:35 AM Subject: FreeBSD 4.2 ISO > Hello, I downloaded FreeBSD 4.2 and 4.11 from FreeBSD.org. It installed fine until i tried to add packages. It failed on everything except emacs. I have a copy of FreeBSD 4.0 and it installed the packages fine all on the first CD. Do I need to download anything else from FREEBSD.org other than the ISO. Any help would be apreciated. > > > Thank You, > Robert Daniels > > > > > > > > > > > Powered by AtDot (AtDot 2.0.1+joeym) > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 17: 0:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from milkyway.org (a98210.ntown.com [208.245.98.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D7137B67D for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:59:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rigel.milkyway.org (rigel.milkyway.org [205.241.194.19]) by milkyway.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA63532; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:05:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toby@milkyway.org) Received: by rigel.milkyway.org with Microsoft Mail id <01C09209.53D801C0@rigel.milkyway.org>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:57:12 -0500 Message-ID: <01C09209.53D801C0@rigel.milkyway.org> From: Toby Swanson To: "'Doug Young'" , "Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk" , "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: RE: SSH Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:57:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Not for me. It takes about 5 to 10 seconds to get the password prompt and another 1 to 10 to get a shell prompt. As for 'why', ask on questions. Toby -----Original Message----- From: Doug Young [SMTP:dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 4:26 AM To: Graham.Lillico@itnet.co.uk; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SSH As far as I know thats normal ..... every SSH login I've ever seen has taken about 2 minutes ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 7:21 PM Subject: SSH > > > Hi, > > Can anyone tell me why it is taking so long to log in via ssh, its currently > taking about 2 minutes from entering my password to getting a shell prompt, is > this right? if not any ideas what could be causing it? > > Graham > > > > > **************************************************************************** ******* > http://www.itnet.co.uk > http://www.itnet.co.uk/eb - Click here to see ITNET's ebusiness capabilities > > Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and > not necessarily those of ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries. This email > and any files transmitted with it, including replies and forwarded > copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently transmitted from > ITNET plc and/or its subsidiaries, are confidential and solely for the > use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient > or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be > advised that you have received this email in error and that any use > is strictly prohibited. > > If you have received this email in error please notify ITNET Customer Service > Centre by telephone on +44 (0)121 683 4043 or via email to > csccom@itnet.co.uk, including a copy of this message. > Please then delete this email and destroy any copies of it. > **************************************************************************** ******* > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Feb 8 19: 4:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail10.speakeasy.net (mail10.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C58637B4EC for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:04:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 79610 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 03:04:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO andy) ([64.81.80.229]) (envelope-sender ) by mail10.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 9 Feb 2001 03:04:09 -0000 From: "Andy Kosmale" To: Subject: Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:03:44 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org auth b471699b subscribe freebsd-newbies akosmale@speakeasy.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 11: 4:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB72137B401; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:03:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f18MwC986336; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:58:12 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:58:12 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: David Johnson Cc: Nik Clayton , FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Switching from Linux Message-ID: <20010208225811.A86291@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20010208070739.A82647@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> <3A82E3D9.99D97040@acuson.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A82E3D9.99D97040@acuson.com>; from djohnson@acuson.com on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 10:22:17AM -0800 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 10:22:17AM -0800, David Johnson wrote: > Nik Clayton wrote: > > > I would be over the moon if someone who knows a Linux distribution would > > make a start on this. Any takers? > > I've thought about this, but I don't think I'd be good at it. I use > FreeBSD as a desktop machine and development platform, but I've never > use it as a server of any kind. So if I wrote any comparisons between > FreeBSD and Linux, I would be ignoring its strengths (server), saying > there's no difference between the two (development), then pointing out > all the annoying quirks (desktop). I don't want a comparison between FreeBSD and (a) Linux (distribution). I want a cheat sheet for Linux users who are thinking of migrating to FreeBSD, but are concerned that all the Linux knowledge they have is going to be useless, and that they will need to pore through the Handbook before they can do anything useful with it. In some cases, this will just consist of showing different command lines. In other cases, it will be links to existing documentation. For example. Section: Networking. Question: On Redhat, I would run "insert command here" to add another IP address to an interface. How do I do that on FreeBSD? Answer: ifconfig inet
netmask 255.255.255.255 alias For more details, see the ifconfig(8) man page. Question: What is the FreeBSD equivalent to ipchains? Answer: Either ipfw, or ipfilter, depending on what you want to do. Hooks to configure these are in /etc/rc.conf, and /etc/rc.firewall. Also, see the Firewalls section in the Handbook. I strongly urge anyone interested in doing real work on this to subscribe to the freebsd-doc mailing list. N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 11: 5:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82EE537B69D; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:05:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f18NCxE86352; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:12:59 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 23:12:59 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Jamie Walker Cc: Nik Clayton , newbies@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Switching from Linux Message-ID: <20010208231259.A86233@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20010208070739.A82647@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> <3A824BE8.ECBC0622@clear.net.nz> <20010208074139.A47357@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> <3A826317.AEEB712F@clear.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A826317.AEEB712F@clear.net.nz>; from jamiew@clear.net.nz on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 10:12:55PM +1300 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm copying this to -newbies, where this has come up again, and -doc, where I'd like the discussions to continue. For those new to this, this is the attempt to produce a 'cheat sheet' for Linux users coming to FreeBSD. On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 10:12:55PM +1300, Jamie Walker wrote: > Nik Clayton wrote: > > > Don't worry if you can't fill in the details for more than one Linux > > distro, you don't have to. All we need is something we can start with. > > 'kay, see attached. Is this the sort of thing you're looking for? > > -- > Email: jamiew@clear.net.nz ICQ: 5632563 or shout loudly > To enable NFS: > -------------- > > In either, edit /etc/exports as appropriate. The formats differ between OSs, > so look at the man page. > > RedHat/Mandrake: > > Type > > chkconfig portmap on > chkconfig nfs on > /etc/rc.d/init.d/portmap start > /etc/rc.d/init.d/nfs start > > FreeBSD: > > Add the following to /etc/rc.conf: > > portmap_enable="YES" > nfs_server_enable="YES" > > then reboot. > > > To enable SSHD: > -------------- > > RedHat/Mandrake: > > chkconfig sshd on > /etc/rc.d/init.d/sshd start > > FreeBSD: > > Add the following to /etc/rc.conf: > > sshd_enable="YES" > > then reboot. > > > To change IP address on the local network: > ----------------------------------------- > > RedHat/Mandrake: > > Edit /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 and change the IPADDR line, > and the NETMASK/NETWORK/BROADCAST lines if these have changed also. > > Then either reboot (recommended) or type > > /etc/rc.d/init.d/network restart > > Not that with the second approach, any services that bind to specific interfaces > rather than all interfaces won't bind to the new IP address. named is an example > of one such service. > > FreeBSD: > > Edit /etc/rc.conf and edit the line ifconfig_xxx. Then reboot. Yep, that's the sort of thing I'm after. More submissions very welcome. N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 11:18:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from e-mail.ru (cscmail.e-mail.ru [194.135.30.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AB03337B6A4 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:17:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.sheff.ru ([212.188.101.195]) by e-mail.ru ; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:16:45 3 From: sarj To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Hello from russia! Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:21:07 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01021000082900.00234@ns.sheff.ru> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi. I from Russia. I have some problems. 1) In /usr/share/doc/psd/ why thet only half of documentation. That is in contents.ascii.gz 27 documents are described and in the directory lies only 14. Where all remaining? 2) Then better is to view these files? 3) Advise small local HTTP deamon with support CGI. With bast regards Sarj SHeFF. --- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 11:18:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from e-mail.ru (cscmail.e-mail.ru [194.135.30.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AAD6037B6A2 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:17:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.sheff.ru ([212.188.101.195]) by e-mail.ru ; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:16:46 3 From: sarj To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Hello from russia! Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:17:35 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01021000182100.00225@ns.sheff.ru> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi. I from Russia. I have some problems. 1) In /usr/share/doc/psd/ why thet only half of documentation. That is in contents.ascii.gz 27 documents are described and in the directory lies only 14. Where all remaining? 2) Then better is to view these files? 3) Advise small local HTTP deamon with support CGI. With bast regards Sarj SHeFF. --- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 11:28: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.scana.com (falcon.scana.com [161.156.101.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30DCD37B6A8 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:27:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by falcon.scana.com; id OAA18919; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:27:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from maildmis.scana.com(161.156.248.91) by falcon.scana.com via smap (V5.5) id xma018863; Fri, 9 Feb 01 14:26:52 -0500 Received: from msg20.scana.com [161.156.248.91] by MSG20.SCANA.COM [161.156.248.91] (CMSPraetor 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id 2FC3D49DFE9211D494B90002A51B97A8 for plus 1 more; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:26:28 -0500 Received: by maildmis.scana.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <1T7D2VP1>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:26:28 -0500 Message-ID: From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" To: "'sarj'" Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Hello from russia! Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:26:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of sarj > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:21 PM > To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > 3) Advise small local HTTP deamon with support CGI. I can't answer your first two questions. Take a look at thttpd. It is a very small, very fast http daemon. I have been using it for about 2 months. http://www.acme.com/software/thttpd/ ...Michael... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 11:38:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57C4237B4EC for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:37:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [213.1.176.116] (helo=Dark.LAN_Action) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14RJMd-0003k7-00 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 19:37:52 +0000 From: Charlie & To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Xconf, xconfig Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 19:30:32 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <21020919382000.00618@Dark.LAN_Action> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I used to use this in linux for fiddling with settings such as bpp, resolution, etc etc. All i can find is "X", and it doesnt give much on it as far as i can see. Basically what i was after is not having my display in what appears to be 256 colour mode! Thanks alot, and after i got through the rigorous installation proccess (FreeBSD 4.0 btw), im very impressed, the only things i have noticed, is the sheer SPEED of BSD compared to Linux, and the apparent lack for native Internet related utils such as IRC, FTP etc, although the ports have all of that and much,.. much more :) AND, thanks for providing this also free support, plus your FAQ's and such (which i did look at briefly, but couldnt see anything, sorry:( Gods.. ImNotWorthy, Jon Tite. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 11:43:36 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B6F937B67D for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:43:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5745E18BD; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:06:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B7018BC; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:06:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:06:41 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hamell To: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" Cc: 'sarj' , "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Hello from russia! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Please do not ask or answer Tech-questions on -newibes... it is a non-technical mailing list. -questions is the best place to ask such questions. Thanks much! Rick > > 3) Advise small local HTTP deamon with support CGI. > > I can't answer your first two questions. Take a look at thttpd. It is a > very small, very fast http daemon. I have been using it for about 2 months. > > http://www.acme.com/software/thttpd/ > > ...Michael... > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 11:56:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.scana.com (falcon.scana.com [161.156.101.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4709A37B684 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:55:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by falcon.scana.com; id OAA23076; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:55:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from maildmis.scana.com(161.156.252.90) by falcon.scana.com via smap (V5.5) id xma023003; Fri, 9 Feb 01 14:54:54 -0500 Received: from msg21.scana.com [161.156.252.90] by MSG21.SCANA.COM [161.156.252.90] (CMSPraetor 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id 89B706E3FE3C11D4B09A0002A507E1C8 for plus 2 more; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:54:25 -0500 Received: by maildmis.scana.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <1T73RXYW>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:54:25 -0500 Message-ID: From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" To: "'Rick Hamell'" Cc: "'sarj'" , "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Hello from russia! Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:54:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a tech question??? Sounds more like newbie asking for advice. Just how am I supposed to know if a question passes the tech threshold? I admit, the other two questions did seem of a technical nature. Does this mean if two questions are technical, I cannot answer the third one? Perhaps if the majority of the question are non-technical? So what if I answer this question here? Is that bad? Does this rob us newbies of precious bandwidth that could have been used for non-technical discussions? I just don't get this list. :-) ...Michael... > Please do not ask or answer Tech-questions on > -newibes... it is a > non-technical mailing list. -questions is the best place to ask such > questions. Thanks much! > > Rick > > > > 3) Advise small local HTTP deamon with support CGI. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 12: 1: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6705337B69B for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:00:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3504C18BD; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:24:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C3D118BC; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:24:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:24:13 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hamell To: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Hello from russia! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > So what if I answer this question here? Is that bad? Does this rob us > newbies of precious bandwidth that could have been used for non-technical > discussions? > > I just don't get this list. :-) No.... :) This list was created with the cavet that NO technical questions be asked here. Because those who hang on -questions did not want to be subscribed to yet another email list, AND it was felt that the FreeBSD project needed only one point of contact for technical questions. The secondary effect is that since this is a -newbie list and newbie could potentially answer a question wrong. Without someone more experienced around to watch for that... bad things could happen to your system. The simple fact is that this list needs to be renamed to newbie-chat or deleted. :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 12: 9: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mario.zyan.com (mario.zyan.com [209.250.96.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE71937B69F for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:08:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from aviating.com (node-64-248-54-162.dslspeed.zyan.com [64.248.54.162]) by mario.zyan.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32922 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:08:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jallen@aviating.com) Message-ID: <3A844E50.792C2E29@aviating.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 12:08:48 -0800 From: Jim Allen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: Re: Hello from russia! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org So all of us newbies should subscribe to -questions also, as we try to sort through all the technical mysteries we are encountering, even though they are elementary newbie questions? Jim Allen Rick Hamell wrote: > > > So what if I answer this question here? Is that bad? Does this rob us > > newbies of precious bandwidth that could have been used for non-technical > > discussions? > > > > I just don't get this list. :-) > > No.... :) This list was created with the cavet that NO technical > questions be asked here. Because those who hang on -questions did not want > to be subscribed to yet another email list, AND it was felt that the > FreeBSD project needed only one point of contact for technical > questions. The secondary effect is that since this is a -newbie list and > newbie could potentially answer a question wrong. Without someone more > experienced around to watch for that... bad things could happen to your > system. The simple fact is that this list needs to be renamed to > newbie-chat or deleted. :) > > Rick > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 12:27:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dfw-smtpout3.email.verio.net (dfw-smtpout3.email.verio.net [129.250.36.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2984437B6A4 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:27:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [129.250.38.56] (helo=dfw-corpmmp1.email.verio.net) by dfw-smtpout3.email.verio.net with esmtp id 14RK8O-0006af-00; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 20:27:12 +0000 Received: from [204.1.38.26] (helo=yongdell) by dfw-corpmmp1.email.verio.net with smtp id 14RK8N-0004cG-00; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 20:27:11 +0000 From: "Yong Lim" To: "Rick Hamell" , "SILVER, MICHAEL A" Cc: Subject: RE: Hello from russia! Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:28:57 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is there no middle ground here? For newbies to subscribe to -questions, it is very intimating. I tried and after a few days I had to get out. We don't need to scare off newbies but we don't want to give them wrong answers either. How about sending out disclaimer from this list saying that any answers from -newbies should be tested out first. And for better answers check with -questions. I assume not many people subscribe to -newbies are not running live production systems. If they are they need to re-examine something. But newbies might have starter questions like how to mount an ms-dos floppy on FreeBSD...and a quick answer would carry them to the next stage. Any way, just another rant...How are you doing to carry on a conversation if you can't do Q&A? :-) Yong : -----Original Message----- : From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG : [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Hamell : Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:24 PM : To: SILVER, MICHAEL A : Cc: 'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG' : Subject: RE: Hello from russia! : : : : > So what if I answer this question here? Is that bad? Does this rob us : > newbies of precious bandwidth that could have been used for : non-technical : > discussions? : > : > I just don't get this list. :-) : : No.... :) This list was created with the cavet that NO technical : questions be asked here. Because those who hang on -questions did not want : to be subscribed to yet another email list, AND it was felt that the : FreeBSD project needed only one point of contact for technical : questions. The secondary effect is that since this is a -newbie list and : newbie could potentially answer a question wrong. Without someone more : experienced around to watch for that... bad things could happen to your : system. The simple fact is that this list needs to be renamed to : newbie-chat or deleted. :) : : Rick : : : : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org : with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 12:39: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (unknown [64.46.248.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F2537B6B2 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:38:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (unknown [64.46.248.1]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 571D316229 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:38:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28710 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:38:05 -0500 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from uranus.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:37:22 -0500 Subject: RE: Hello from russia! To: Rick Hamell Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" , "SILVER, MICHAEL A" X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:38:25 -0700 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Uranus/SMS(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at 02/09/2001 03:37:54 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The simple fact is that this list needs to be renamed to >newbie-chat or deleted. :) I agree with Rick and think that a name change would help clear things up a lot. Rick, is a name change for this list possible? How hard would it be to do this? Thanks Joe Rick Hamell 1nova.com> cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" , (bcc: Joe 02/08/01 01:24 Warner/SMS) PM Subject: RE: Hello from russia! > So what if I answer this question here? Is that bad? Does this rob us > newbies of precious bandwidth that could have been used for non-technical > discussions? > > I just don't get this list. :-) No.... :) This list was created with the cavet that NO technical questions be asked here. Because those who hang on -questions did not want to be subscribed to yet another email list, AND it was felt that the FreeBSD project needed only one point of contact for technical questions. The secondary effect is that since this is a -newbie list and newbie could potentially answer a question wrong. Without someone more experienced around to watch for that... bad things could happen to your system. The simple fact is that this list needs to be renamed to newbie-chat or deleted. :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 12:55: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (unknown [64.46.248.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EFBF37B6AF for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:54:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (unknown [64.46.248.1]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7915F1619F for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:54:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31479 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:54:01 -0500 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from uranus.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:53:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Hello from russia! To: Jim Allen Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:54:23 -0700 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Uranus/SMS(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at 02/09/2001 03:53:53 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >So all of us newbies should subscribe to -questions No, that would be crazy. Does anyone really subscribe to that list? I made the mistake of doing it once and was suprised to find 180+ email in my inbox at the end of the day. >as we try to sort through all the >technical mysteries we are encountering, even >though they are elementary newbie questions? You can send questions to -questions. Even elementary newbie one's will get answered. Cheers Joe Jim Allen cc: (bcc: Joe Warner/SMS) 02/09/01 Subject: Re: Hello from russia! 01:08 PM So all of us newbies should subscribe to -questions also, as we try to sort through all the technical mysteries we are encountering, even though they are elementary newbie questions? Jim Allen Rick Hamell wrote: > > > So what if I answer this question here? Is that bad? Does this rob us > > newbies of precious bandwidth that could have been used for non-technical > > discussions? > > > > I just don't get this list. :-) > > No.... :) This list was created with the cavet that NO technical > questions be asked here. Because those who hang on -questions did not want > to be subscribed to yet another email list, AND it was felt that the > FreeBSD project needed only one point of contact for technical > questions. The secondary effect is that since this is a -newbie list and > newbie could potentially answer a question wrong. Without someone more > experienced around to watch for that... bad things could happen to your > system. The simple fact is that this list needs to be renamed to > newbie-chat or deleted. :) > > Rick > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 13: 1:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gwdu42.gwdg.de (gwdu42.gwdg.de [134.76.10.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1685537B4EC for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:01:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ras23-160.gwdg.de ([134.76.23.160] helo=[134.76.23.216]) by gwdu42.gwdg.de with esmtp (Exim 3.14 #18) id 14RKfO-0005kd-00 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:01:19 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rbeer@popper.gwdg.de Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:59:59 +0100 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org From: Ragnar Beer Subject: ISDN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Howdy everyone! This is my first day with FreeBSD and I just subscribed to a subset of the bazillions of freebsd mailing lists. From the first ten or so messages that I got from this list it seems to me that the first thing a FreeBSD newbie has to learn is the art of where exactly to post a question ;) Ok, here is my question: I'd like to get on the internet. So I wonder where I can find some information about how to set up ISDN. Is there a howto somewhere? Ragnar To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 13: 4:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC5B137B4EC for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:04:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8E8A018BD; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:27:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CFF418BC; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:27:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:27:59 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hamell To: Joe.Warner@smed.com Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Hello from russia! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > The simple fact is that this list needs to be renamed to > >newbie-chat or deleted. :) > > I agree with Rick and think that a name change would > help clear things up a lot. > > Rick, is a name change for this list possible? > > How hard would it be to do this? I've made the suggestion to postmaster twice now and done a lot of ranting both here and on -chat... nothing has ever come out of it. :( At this point all that is left is to try and point people in the right direction, and ask that every one else also send email to postmaster@freebsd.org asking the same... :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 13: 7:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8CBC37B67D for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:07:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07571; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 07:07:20 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdKg7569; Sat Feb 10 07:07:12 2001 Message-ID: <065201c092dc$4e60c8c0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> From: "Doug Young" To: , "Ragnar Beer" References: Subject: Re: ISDN Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 07:07:24 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org An off-topic question for you ......whats the going price for an ISDN connection in Germany ?? I'd get one immediately here but the crooks who own the only service provider in OZ capable of connecting ISDN demand $AU385 per month just for connectivity (plus data at around 28c per Mb) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ragnar Beer" To: Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 6:59 AM Subject: ISDN > Howdy everyone! > > This is my first day with FreeBSD and I just subscribed to a subset > of the bazillions of freebsd mailing lists. From the first ten or so > messages that I got from this list it seems to me that the first > thing a FreeBSD newbie has to learn is the art of where exactly to > post a question ;) > > Ok, here is my question: I'd like to get on the internet. So I wonder > where I can find some information about how to set up ISDN. Is there > a howto somewhere? > > Ragnar > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 13:10: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF8C37B4EC for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:09:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA2A98; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:14:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3A845BDE.DFCB650B@acuson.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:06:38 -0800 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charlie & Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Xconf, xconfig References: <21020919382000.00618@Dark.LAN_Action> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Charlie & wrote: > > I used to use this in linux for fiddling with settings such as bpp, resolution, > etc etc. > > All i can find is "X", and it doesnt give much on it as far as i can see. Xconf and xconfig are not Linux commands, as far as I can tell. They are probably distribution specific. The XFree86 commands are xf86config and XF86Setup. The former is text based and the latter is graphical. READ YOUR MAN PAGES FIRST!!! David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 13:10:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3839F37B67D; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:09:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA07576; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 07:09:40 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au) Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdSe7574; Sat Feb 10 07:09:34 2001 Message-ID: <065701c092dc$a322c840$847e03cb@apana.org.au> From: "Doug Young" To: "Rick Hamell" , , Cc: References: Subject: Re: Hello from russia! Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 07:09:46 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hear hear ...... a thousand times over The suggestions herein re renaming the "newbies"list should have been given serious consideration MONTHS ago !!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Hamell" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 7:27 AM Subject: RE: Hello from russia! > > > > The simple fact is that this list needs to be renamed to > > >newbie-chat or deleted. :) > > > > I agree with Rick and think that a name change would > > help clear things up a lot. > > > > Rick, is a name change for this list possible? > > > > How hard would it be to do this? > > I've made the suggestion to postmaster twice now and done a lot of > ranting both here and on -chat... nothing has ever come out of it. :( At > this point all that is left is to try and point people in the right > direction, and ask that every one else also send email to > postmaster@freebsd.org asking the same... :) > > Rick > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 13:11:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6682837B6B2 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:11:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 875B66E2853 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:10:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EFB8218BD; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6EE418BC; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hamell To: Ragnar Beer Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ISDN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > This is my first day with FreeBSD and I just subscribed to a subset > of the bazillions of freebsd mailing lists. From the first ten or so > messages that I got from this list it seems to me that the first > thing a FreeBSD newbie has to learn is the art of where exactly to > post a question ;) > > Ok, here is my question: I'd like to get on the internet. So I wonder > where I can find some information about how to set up ISDN. Is there > a howto somewhere? Hello Ragnar! You might want to check out http://www.freebsddiary.org. Also, asking questions on freebs-questions@freebsd.org is a good idea... :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 13:23:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (unknown [64.46.248.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CEC437B491 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (unknown [64.46.248.1]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4E7161B4 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:23:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02849 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:22:55 -0500 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from uranus.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:22:18 -0500 Subject: RE: Hello from russia! To: Rick Hamell Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:23:20 -0700 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Uranus/SMS(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at 02/09/2001 04:22:50 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >done a lot of ranting both here >and on -chat... nothing has ever come out of it. Is there an actual person that reads email sent to that address? If so, why not contact them directly or via a different address? >and ask that every one else also send email to >postmaster@freebsd.org asking the same... :) I can certainly do this and encourage others to do the same but we need validation that this isn't a dead address. Thanks Joe Rick Hamell cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" 02/08/01 02:27 Subject: RE: Hello from russia! PM > > The simple fact is that this list needs to be renamed to > >newbie-chat or deleted. :) > > I agree with Rick and think that a name change would > help clear things up a lot. > > Rick, is a name change for this list possible? > > How hard would it be to do this? I've made the suggestion to postmaster twice now and done a lot of ranting both here and on -chat... nothing has ever come out of it. :( At this point all that is left is to try and point people in the right direction, and ask that every one else also send email to postmaster@freebsd.org asking the same... :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 13:34: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16C5037B491 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:33:43 -0800 (PST) Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id OAA18833 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:33:42 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from il33exm02.wes.mot.com (il33exm02.wes.mot.com [154.56.3.102]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA10809 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:33:41 -0700 (MST)] Received: by il33exm02.wes.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) id <1PQDJC9M>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:33:41 -0600 Message-ID: From: Libby Charles-CCL044 To: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: FW: Hello from russia! Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:33:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry Doug I pressed Send to quickly. -----Original Message----- From: Libby Charles-CCL044 Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:26 PM To: 'Doug Young' Subject: RE: Hello from russia! How about making a newbie questions. I as a newbie feel a little intimidated by the -questions list for fear of being flamed because I missed something way back. The newbie chat is a good idea, too. Charles S. Libby Technical Instructor iDEN (847) 576-0617 Rom 10:9-10 -----Original Message----- From: Doug Young [mailto:dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:10 PM To: Rick Hamell; Joe.Warner@smed.com; postmaster@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hello from russia! Hear hear ...... a thousand times over The suggestions herein re renaming the "newbies"list should have been given serious consideration MONTHS ago !!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Hamell" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 7:27 AM Subject: RE: Hello from russia! > > > > The simple fact is that this list needs to be renamed to > > >newbie-chat or deleted. :) > > > > I agree with Rick and think that a name change would > > help clear things up a lot. > > > > Rick, is a name change for this list possible? > > > > How hard would it be to do this? > > I've made the suggestion to postmaster twice now and done a lot of > ranting both here and on -chat... nothing has ever come out of it. :( At > this point all that is left is to try and point people in the right > direction, and ask that every one else also send email to > postmaster@freebsd.org asking the same... :) > > Rick > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 14:11:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hnet04.kellyhendrix.com (unknown [208.233.247.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB53F37B401 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:10:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by hnet04.kellyhendrix.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3DD6C18C8C; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:11:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:11:14 -0500 From: Kelly Hendrix To: Yong Lim Cc: Rick Hamell , "SILVER, MICHAEL A" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hello from russia! Message-ID: <20010209171114.A1291@hnet04.kellyhendrix.com> Reply-To: Kelly Hendrix References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from yong@csfi.com on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 03:28:57PM -0500 X-Freebsd-Version: FreeBSD 4.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greetings Perhaps the charter could be modified so that newbies could ask questions about command function and or syntax, i.e. how to mount a msdos floppy, what's the command to see how much space I have left on my hard drive, etc. Anything else could be bounced or referred to questions. It's truly ironic that the nature of this thread, which questions the raison d`etre of the newbie charter, is exactly the type of content that was intended for this mailing list. That aside, my opinion is that unless certain basic questions are allowed to be asked there's no point having this list. Since the floor seems to be open to this discussion, perhaps others can chime in and give their .02 worth. My .02 worth Kelly Hendrix On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 03:28:57PM -0500, Yong Lim wrote: > Is there no middle ground here? For newbies to subscribe to -questions, it > is very intimating. I tried and after a few days I had to get out. We > don't need to scare off newbies but we don't want to give them wrong answers > either. > > How about sending out disclaimer from this list saying that any answers > from -newbies should be tested out first. And for better answers check > with -questions. I assume not many people subscribe to -newbies are not > running live production systems. If they are they need to re-examine > something. But newbies might have starter questions like how to mount an > ms-dos floppy on FreeBSD...and a quick answer would carry them to the next > stage. > > Any way, just another rant...How are you doing to carry on a conversation if > you can't do Q&A? :-) > > Yong > > : -----Original Message----- > : From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > : [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Hamell > : Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:24 PM > : To: SILVER, MICHAEL A > : Cc: 'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG' > : Subject: RE: Hello from russia! > : > : > : > : > So what if I answer this question here? Is that bad? Does this rob us > : > newbies of precious bandwidth that could have been used for > : non-technical > : > discussions? > : > > : > I just don't get this list. :-) > : > : No.... :) This list was created with the cavet that NO technical > : questions be asked here. Because those who hang on -questions did not want > : to be subscribed to yet another email list, AND it was felt that the > : FreeBSD project needed only one point of contact for technical > : questions. The secondary effect is that since this is a -newbie list and > : newbie could potentially answer a question wrong. Without someone more > : experienced around to watch for that... bad things could happen to your > : system. The simple fact is that this list needs to be renamed to > : newbie-chat or deleted. :) > : > : Rick > : > : > : > : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > : with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- ______________________________________________________________________ | There are two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a | | miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. | | | | Albert Einstein (1879-1955) | |______________________________________________________________________| To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 14:53:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (unknown [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 336D437B69C for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:52:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA34985; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:59:21 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:59:18 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Yong Lim Cc: Rick Hamell , "SILVER, MICHAEL A" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hello from russia! Message-ID: <20010210095916.F19976@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Yong Lim , Rick Hamell , "SILVER, MICHAEL A" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Yong Lim on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 03:28:57PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 03:28:57PM -0500, Yong Lim wrote: > For newbies to subscribe to -questions, it > is very intimating. I tried and after a few days I had to get out. Is freebsd-questions a problem? Then I suggest we deal with it directly. Using -newbies to do what -questions already does, or should do, is sweeping it under the carpet and making it worse. And if you do want some changes to freebsd-questions, once you've broken the ground rules for list charters you have a very wobbly leg to stand on. Would you like some FreeBSD gurus to decide what is wrong with your attitude to freebsd-questions? Or do you think your interests would be better served by discussion amongst newbies only, to outline the problems we have with -questions and try to find some real newbie-oriented solutions? Where do you think we could talk about that stuff, huh? Where? Where would we be allowed to? Where could we discuss newbie to newbie without some heavy pushing their point of view or blaming a newbie for their own distress? Where could we get something off our chest without shoving it in the face of the person whose error might have caused our difficulties? If we don't clutter freebsd-questions with chat, and don't ask or answer support questions here, they'll leave us alone. We have a "gentlemen's agreement" from most of the helpers that they'll keep their noses out of here and let us let off steam without any wrist slaps or non-newbie points of view. It's a deal that this list is based on, and most of the time everyone sticks to it without trouble. But note that freebsd-questions is the one and only central place for support questions and answers, no matter what level you think they are. But it's not working. We also agreed that if it didn't work we'd close freebsd-newbies down. If we do that, then don't ever even THINK of having space to find real solutions to any freebsd-questions issues as they arise without interference from people who think they know more about newbies than a real newbie. The best helpers on -questions openly state that they can't claim to know what newbies feel, and they support the idea of having this list to work it out among peers only. They might read sometimes, but they won't butt in. We always have a couple of people who won't play by the rules, though, at all levels, so watch out. You have a problem with freebsd-questions? Then you'd better bloody well fix it, together, before some misguided hyper-intelligent blinkered fool imposes their own 'fix' on you. Fixing starts with describing and defining the problem, then looking at the causes, options, etc. Only you people can do that, alone, on your own turf, and any hero who tries to help you will only make it worse. You must find a way to make freebsd-questions work for you, because nobody else can speak for you. Your choice. Work it out properly, your way, here, or shut up and wear it. PS I too would support the name change to freebsd-newbies-chat, as I recommended two years ago. At last feedback it didn't match the FreeBSD list naming format, and adjusting to a change would be a big job for very little return judging from the way newbies refuse to read or abide by list charters anyway. By your actions you can prove them wrong. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 15:16:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2A3637B6A7 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:16:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 891F318BD; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:39:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7793D18BC; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:39:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:39:41 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Hamell To: Joe.Warner@smed.com Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" Subject: RE: Hello from russia! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >done a lot of ranting both here > >and on -chat... nothing has ever come out of it. > > Is there an actual person that reads email > sent to that address? If so, why not contact them > directly or via a different address? I've sent email to postmaster@freebsd.org about another kinda abuse... and got a response from that... :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 15:28:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (unknown [64.46.248.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5669537B401 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:28:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (unknown [64.46.248.1]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CFAB161D2 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:28:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14159 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:27:36 -0500 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from uranus.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 18:26:54 -0500 Subject: RE: Hello from russia! To: Rick Hamell Cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5 September 22, 2000 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:27:57 -0700 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Uranus/SMS(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at 02/09/2001 06:27:26 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >done a lot of ranting both here >and on -chat... nothing has ever come out of it. > >Is there an actual person that reads email >sent to that address? If so, why not contact them >directly or via a different address? >I've sent email to postmaster@freebsd.org about another kinda >abuse... and got a response from that... :) > Rick Well then, let's get to it everybody!! Like Sue indicated previously, action speaks louder than words. I would encourage everyone to send email to and ask politely if the name could be changed to freebsd-newbies-chat. IMHO, deleting the list isn't the answer. This list is and has been a valuable resource for newbies. Let's join forces and make damn sure it stays that way. Regards, Joe Rick Hamell cc: "'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG'" 02/08/01 04:39 Subject: RE: Hello from russia! PM > >done a lot of ranting both here > >and on -chat... nothing has ever come out of it. > > Is there an actual person that reads email > sent to that address? If so, why not contact them > directly or via a different address? I've sent email to postmaster@freebsd.org about another kinda abuse... and got a response from that... :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 16: 4:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from tierzero.apana.org.au (unknown [150.101.94.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA30A37B6B8 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:04:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from PhD_1.testname.com.au (bra@dialup-11.pasa.apana.org.au [203.14.158.140]) by tierzero.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA07808; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:33:47 +1030 (CST) From: Brian Astill Reply-To: bastill@sa.apana.org.au To: Sue Blake , Yong Lim Subject: Function of -newbies Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:22:52 +1030 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: Rick Hamell , "SILVER, MICHAEL A" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010210095916.F19976@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <20010210095916.F19976@welearn.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01021010304504.02553@PhD_1.testname.com.au> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, Sue Blake wrote: > If we don't clutter freebsd-questions with chat, and don't ask > or answer support questions here, they'll leave us alone. We > have a "gentlemen's agreement" from most of the helpers that > they'll keep their noses out of here and let us let off steam > without any wrist slaps or non-newbie points of view. >You must find a > way to make freebsd-questions work for you, because nobody else can > speak for you. Hoo-bloody-rah! A succinct expose of what -newbies should be about, and a contribution to the sort of discussion that SHOULD be taking place here. > I too would support the name change to freebsd-newbies-chat, as I > recommended two years ago. At last feedback it didn't match the > FreeBSD list naming format /sarcasm How very sad sarcasm/ How about FreeBSD-newbiechat ? (too hard?) This list can offer welcome opportunity to discuss such issues as "what about -questions?" and "what sources of info I have found most helpful" and the like. The list title does not relect the list's purpose. -- Regards, Brian ******************************************************** Dr Brian Astill Visiting Research Fellow Flinders University Institute of International Education Bus 8201 3480 FAX 8449 9199 bastill@sa.apana.org.au ******************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 16:27:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from eris.siliconinc.net (eris.siliconinc.net [209.209.49.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D67837B69B for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:27:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 6068 invoked by uid 1004); 10 Feb 2001 00:27:18 -0000 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:27:18 -0800 From: sil@antioffline.com To: Richard Wilson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <20010209162718.A21618@antioffline.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from wk633@victoria.tc.ca on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 04:05:21PM -0800 X-Operating-System: OpenBSD 2.8 i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I'm probably not the first to point out (or if I am, I'm only the first to > be stupid enough to spend the time) the following from > http://www.openbsd.org/ports.html: Can't we all just get along. First off the advisories we're jokes I made with friends and I never sent them out, or did I? Wouldn't make a difference anyways so here's my take. Your pointing out something I already know and I am speaking for myself and not some OpenBSD cause. FYI I use FBSD at work since it supports multi processors and has some features that Open doesn't. However 4 CD's filled with stuff that I could give a rats (let me be polite) anus about is outrageous. Its no wonder why Free is on record pace to release a slew of advisories. Listen I poke fun at everybody including OpenBSD its just my website's irreverent way of making geeks laugh when there's not much else to read about and their getting sick of the bull (let me be nice again) crap posted on sites like Slashdot and DaemonNews. THEY ARE JOKES NO NEED TO GET BENT OUT OF SHAPE like that hermophradite luser named Kitana who jumped in #openbsd on IRC and had an attack as if the world was coming to an end. >=20 > "The ports & packages collection does NOT go through the thorough security > audit that OpenBSD follows. Although we strive to keep the quality of the > packages collection high, we just do not have enough human resources to > ensure the same level of robustness and security."=20 Can you post this in Swedish for me my enlish no too good >=20 > So, serious question, how do you know there are no trojans on YOUR > servers? Do you audit the source? Or do you trust Theo & Co to 'strive'? > Or do you run with the default install? > Uh as a matter of fact, my server is a default install of Open behind a Nokia IP650 with IPF still used between hosts along with Checkpoint's rules with daemons piped through stunnel. I do go through most of the things I install on my network. So the answer is yes, no here is one for you, would you trust your network with an OS that has had more advisories than crappier OS' (Windows) for the year? J. Oquendo sil@disgraced.org http://www.disgraced.org sil@antioffline.com http://www.antioffline.com A student once said: "When I was a Buddhist, it drove my parents and friends crazy, but when I am a buddha, nobody is upset at all." JON KABAT-ZINN, WHEREVER YOU GO THERE YOU ARE --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use MessageID: QBagQ/glFU4rC5Rww8U8UrR+OpOlZbz4 iQA/AwUBOoSK5eU/L6n1j1zqEQJMXACeLqKCzIWahiguctytfVkrWkDk9NUAoIvw D10PqFNF4AWYdwcg/1qLhg3a =lAJ1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --6c2NcOVqGQ03X4Wi-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 16:34:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp1b.mail.yahoo.com (smtp3.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 99D2437B6BC for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:34:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from arc5a206.bf.sover.net (HELO northstarr1) (209.198.80.207) by smtp.mail.vip.suc.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 01:33:37 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <004501c092f7$fab2e7a0$e1423bc0@northstarr1> From: "webmaster" To: "Sue Blake" , "Yong Lim" Cc: "Rick Hamell" , "SILVER, MICHAEL A" , References: <20010210095916.F19976@welearn.com.au> Subject: Re: Hello from russia! Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:25:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hear hear! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Blake" To: "Yong Lim" Cc: "Rick Hamell" ; "SILVER, MICHAEL A" ; Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 5:59 PM Subject: Re: Hello from russia! > On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 03:28:57PM -0500, Yong Lim wrote: > > For newbies to subscribe to -questions, it > > is very intimating. I tried and after a few days I had to get out. > > Is freebsd-questions a problem? Then I suggest we deal with it directly. > Using -newbies to do what -questions already does, or should > do, is sweeping it under the carpet and making it worse. > And if you do want some changes to freebsd-questions, once you've > broken the ground rules for list charters you have a very wobbly > leg to stand on. > > Would you like some FreeBSD gurus to decide what is > wrong with your attitude to freebsd-questions? Or do you think > your interests would be better served by discussion amongst > newbies only, to outline the problems we have with -questions > and try to find some real newbie-oriented solutions? > > Where do you think we could talk about that stuff, huh? Where? > Where would we be allowed to? Where could we discuss newbie to newbie > without some heavy pushing their point of view or blaming a newbie for > their own distress? Where could we get something off our chest without > shoving it in the face of the person whose error might have caused our > difficulties? > > If we don't clutter freebsd-questions with chat, and don't ask > or answer support questions here, they'll leave us alone. We > have a "gentlemen's agreement" from most of the helpers that > they'll keep their noses out of here and let us let off steam > without any wrist slaps or non-newbie points of view. It's a > deal that this list is based on, and most of the time everyone > sticks to it without trouble. But note that freebsd-questions > is the one and only central place for support questions and > answers, no matter what level you think they are. > > But it's not working. We also agreed that if it didn't work > we'd close freebsd-newbies down. If we do that, then don't ever > even THINK of having space to find real solutions to any > freebsd-questions issues as they arise without interference > from people who think they know more about newbies than a > real newbie. The best helpers on -questions openly state that > they can't claim to know what newbies feel, and they support > the idea of having this list to work it out among peers only. > They might read sometimes, but they won't butt in. We always > have a couple of people who won't play by the rules, though, > at all levels, so watch out. > > You have a problem with freebsd-questions? Then you'd better bloody > well fix it, together, before some misguided hyper-intelligent > blinkered fool imposes their own 'fix' on you. Fixing starts with > describing and defining the problem, then looking at the causes, > options, etc. Only you people can do that, alone, on your own turf, and > any hero who tries to help you will only make it worse. You must find a > way to make freebsd-questions work for you, because nobody else can > speak for you. > > Your choice. Work it out properly, your way, here, or shut up and wear it. > > > PS > I too would support the name change to freebsd-newbies-chat, as I > recommended two years ago. At last feedback it didn't match the > FreeBSD list naming format, and adjusting to a change would be a > big job for very little return judging from the way newbies refuse > to read or abide by list charters anyway. By your actions you can > prove them wrong. > > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 17:22:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (unknown [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A70637B401 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA35631 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:30:17 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:30:17 +1100 (EST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <200102100130.MAA35631@phoenix.welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/) FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-CHARTERS) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected to show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 17:37:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f31.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9190337B65D; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:36:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:36:58 -0800 Received: from 216.228.161.21 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 01:36:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.228.161.21] From: "Samantha Hamon" To: sil@antioffline.com, wk633@victoria.tc.ca Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 01:36:58 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2001 01:36:58.0180 (UTC) FILETIME=[F50B9040:01C09301] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Oh yes, It is email like this that reminds me why I remain on this mailing list. :) >From: sil@antioffline.com >To: Richard Wilson >CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: Re: your mail >Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:27:18 -0800 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125])by >mail.bendnet.com (8.11.2/8.11.2/BendNet) with ESMTP id f1A0Rpf34878for >; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:27:52 -0800 (PST) >Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18])by >mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTPid 0471F6E2A61; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 >16:27:45 -0800 (PST) >Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538)id A461937B69D; Fri, > 9 Feb 2001 16:27:43 -0800 (PST) >Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])by hub.freebsd.org >(Postfix) with SMTPid B2F4B2E81BD; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:27:42 -0800 (PST) >Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:27:42 >-0800 >Received: from eris.siliconinc.net (eris.siliconinc.net [209.209.49.200])by >hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D67837B69Bfor >; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:27:21 -0800 (PST) >Received: (qmail 6068 invoked by uid 1004); 10 Feb 2001 00:27:18 -0000 >Return-Path: >Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org >Message-ID: <20010209162718.A21618@antioffline.com> >References: >User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i >In-Reply-To: ; from >wk633@victoria.tc.ca on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 04:05:21PM -0800 >X-Operating-System: OpenBSD 2.8 i386 >Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Precedence: bulk >Status: > > > I'm probably not the first to point out (or if I am, I'm only the first >to > > be stupid enough to spend the time) the following from > > http://www.openbsd.org/ports.html: > >Can't we all just get along. First off the advisories we're jokes I made >with friends and I never sent them out, or did I? Wouldn't make a >difference >anyways so here's my take. > >Your pointing out something I already know and I am speaking for myself >and not some OpenBSD cause. FYI I use FBSD at work since it supports >multi processors and has some features that Open doesn't. However 4 CD's >filled with stuff that I could give a rats (let me be polite) anus about >is outrageous. Its no wonder why Free is on record pace to release a slew >of advisories. > >Listen I poke fun at everybody including OpenBSD its just my website's >irreverent way of making geeks laugh when there's not much else to read >about and their getting sick of the bull (let me be nice again) crap >posted on sites like Slashdot and DaemonNews. > >THEY ARE JOKES NO NEED TO GET BENT OUT OF SHAPE like that hermophradite >luser named Kitana who jumped in #openbsd on IRC and had an attack as if >the world was coming to an end. > > > > > "The ports & packages collection does NOT go through the thorough >security > > audit that OpenBSD follows. Although we strive to keep the quality of >the > > packages collection high, we just do not have enough human resources to > > ensure the same level of robustness and security." > >Can you post this in Swedish for me my enlish no too good > > > > > So, serious question, how do you know there are no trojans on YOUR > > servers? Do you audit the source? Or do you trust Theo & Co to >'strive'? > > Or do you run with the default install? > > > >Uh as a matter of fact, my server is a default install of Open behind a >Nokia IP650 with IPF still used between hosts along with Checkpoint's >rules with daemons piped through stunnel. I do go through most of the >things I install on my network. So the answer is yes, no here is one for >you, would you trust your network with an OS that has had more advisories >than crappier OS' (Windows) for the year? > >J. Oquendo >sil@disgraced.org http://www.disgraced.org >sil@antioffline.com http://www.antioffline.com > >A student once said: "When I was a Buddhist, it drove >my parents and friends crazy, but when I am a buddha, >nobody is upset at all." > >JON KABAT-ZINN, WHEREVER YOU GO THERE YOU ARE ><< attach3 >> _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 17:50:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B602C37B401; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from xor.obsecurity.org ([63.207.60.67]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0G8I008R0PBADC@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:26:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by xor.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 61BE666B62; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:28:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:28:42 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: your mail In-reply-to: <20010209162718.A21618@antioffline.com>; from sil@antioffline.com on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 04:27:18PM -0800 To: sil@antioffline.com Cc: Richard Wilson , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010209172842.A79838@mollari.cthul.hu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="y0ulUmNC+osPPQO6" Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <20010209162718.A21618@antioffline.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --y0ulUmNC+osPPQO6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 04:27:18PM -0800, sil@antioffline.com wrote: > Can't we all just get along. First off the advisories we're jokes I made > with friends and I never sent them out, or did I? Wouldn't make a difference > anyways so here's my take. Wow, you guys certainly know how to write good material. Have you considered stand-up? > things I install on my network. So the answer is yes, no here is one for > you, would you trust your network with an OS that has had more advisories > than crappier OS' (Windows) for the year? So, you feel happier with the same insecure ports existing in your OpenBSD ports collection, because they DON'T announce the vulnerabilities? We're doing both communities a service here, bud. The overwhelming majority of advisories we issue don't relate to the default installation of FreeBSD, and it is an act of sheer ignorance (or malice) to associate ports advisories with insecurity of FreeBSD. Kris --y0ulUmNC+osPPQO6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE6hJlJWry0BWjoQKURAhOsAKD6PayR1c4kBtO+8ZH/rOmh8sJ5EACghvYI qLFXSykTOdIFUPSlbZ+8J9A= =4w5L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --y0ulUmNC+osPPQO6-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 18:34:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.118.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA7B37B401 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:34:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff.concentric.net [206.173.118.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id VAA23327; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:34:14 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts001d45.mer-id.concentric.net (ts001d45.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.57]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id VAA04218; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:34:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:31:57 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke To: Brian Astill Cc: Sue Blake , Yong Lim , Rick Hamell , "SILVER, MICHAEL A" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Function of -newbies In-Reply-To: <01021010304504.02553@PhD_1.testname.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ah. The ever re-occuring topic. Garbage, I say. Personally, if a newbie asks a question and I know the answer -- I answer it, as in the recent: mount /cdrom My Unix _Mentor_, a real pro, gave me the above. Now we are supposed to RTFM, I agree, and while man pages are not _quite_ the greek they used to be, mount /cdrom is still invisible as far as I am concerned. Told my Mentor so, and in a round a bout way, he agreed. But you ask that on questions, and watch for the flame. So where's the harm? Newbies don't jump each other (with a rare exception). Sometimes I ask them (questions) and have found the answers useful. Such as, I've got FBSD on the SCSI, and wincrashcrud on the IDE. Anyone remember how to mount the wd0 partitions? ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 19:41:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BBB637B491 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:40:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [166.70.2.7] (helo=blackmirror.xmission.com) by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14RQu2-0007k5-00; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 20:40:50 -0700 From: rootman To: ML Duke , Brian Astill Subject: Re: Function of -newbies Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:10:43 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Cc: Sue Blake , Yong Lim , Rick Hamell , "SILVER, MICHAEL A" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01020920404502.00330@blackmirror.xmission.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 09 Feb 2001, ML Duke wrote: > Ah. The ever re-occuring topic. > Garbage, I say. It's not garbage, it's a topic about a re-occuring problem that needs to be fixed. > > Personally, if a newbie asks a question and I know the > answer -- I answer it, as in the recent: > mount /cdrom Yes but this isn't what the list was ever created or intended for. > > My Unix _Mentor_, a real pro, gave me the above. > Now we are supposed to RTFM, I agree, and while man > pages are not _quite_ the greek they used to be, > mount /cdrom is still invisible as far as I am > concerned. Told my Mentor so, and in a round a bout > way, he agreed. But you ask that on questions, and > watch for the flame. I've asked questions like this on -questions and never got flamed. In fact, most of the time, it was just the opposite. I got very helpful responses and even additional/related information and tips. Maybe I was just lucky? Maybe it was because I posted my question in a polite manner and indicated that I had already tried searching for related info on the topic before posting to -questions? > > So where's the harm? > Newbies don't jump each other (with a rare exception). The harm is that when people new to the newbies list post technical questions and they get answered, it just creates a viscious cycle and confusion. First, they think since their question got answered, it's all right to ask more..."Hey, tell a friend." Then later, confusion and frustration set in when they're reminded to ask questions in -questions. > > Sometimes I ask them (questions) and have found > the answers useful. Such as, I've got FBSD on the > SCSI, and wincrashcrud on the IDE. Anyone remember > how to mount the wd0 partitions? The useful answers are the one's that tell them where to find the answers on their own or where to ask technical questions when they get stumped. Please don't misinterpret the tone of my response. I understand the point you were trying to make but I feel that the real problem with this list is it's name. I truly believe that if the name was something other than FreeBSD-Newbies, those new to the list or FreeBSD wouldn't make false assumptions as to the purpose of this list in the first place. This would also serve to give Rick, Sue and others, a much needed break from continually having to remind people to "ask questions in -questions". Regards Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 19:52: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDEFB37B491 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id CEB6F6A90D; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:21:45 +1030 (CST) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:21:45 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: rootman Cc: ML Duke , Brian Astill , Sue Blake , Yong Lim , Rick Hamell , "SILVER, MICHAEL A" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Function of -newbies Message-ID: <20010210142145.F83943@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <01020920404502.00330@blackmirror.xmission.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <01020920404502.00330@blackmirror.xmission.com>; from rootman@xmission.com on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 08:10:43PM -0700 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 9 February 2001 at 20:10:43 -0700, rootman wrote: > On Fri, 09 Feb 2001, ML Duke wrote: >> Personally, if a newbie asks a question and I know the answer -- I >> answer it, as in the recent: mount /cdrom > > Yes but this isn't what the list was ever created or intended for. That in itself wouldn't be a problem. The problem is the "blind leading the blind" syndrome. Many people who answer questions on -questions don't read -newbies. Others, like myself, have promised not to answer questions on -newbies. The result is that people who ask questions on -newbies stand a better chance of getting no answer or the wrong answer than if they had asked the question on -questions. In addition, there are a large number of lurkers on both -questions and -newbies. If you answer a question on -newbies, the -questions lurkers never get to see it. >> My Unix _Mentor_, a real pro, gave me the above. Now we are >> supposed to RTFM, I agree, and while man pages are not _quite_ the >> greek they used to be, mount /cdrom is still invisible as far as I >> am concerned. Told my Mentor so, and in a round a bout way, he >> agreed. But you ask that on questions, and watch for the flame. Based on what I've seen here, it's difficult to comment. I don't even know if the answer was right. > I've asked questions like this on -questions and never got flamed. > In fact, most of the time, it was just the opposite. I got very > helpful responses and even additional/related information and tips. > > Maybe I was just lucky? Or maybe you asked your question in a sensible way. There is a valid point that you're liable to get a negative comment if you ask a question on -questions without engaging your brain. Some people find this unnerving, but few people still send real nastigrams. That's why I send out the reference to http://www.lemis.com/questions.html every week. > Maybe it was because I posted my question in a polite manner and > indicated that I had already tried searching for related info on the > topic before posting to -questions? That's a good start. >> So where's the harm? >> Newbies don't jump each other (with a rare exception). > > The harm is that when people new to the newbies list post technical > questions and they get answered, it just creates a viscious cycle > and confusion. First, they think since their question got answered, > it's all right to ask more..."Hey, tell a friend." Then later, > confusion and frustration set in when they're reminded to ask > questions in -questions. That in itself isn't as important as the ones I mentioned above. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 20:57:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.198.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C06B437B401 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:57:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.198.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id XAA14726; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:57:32 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts004d44.mer-id.concentric.net (ts004d44.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.200]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id XAA05124; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:57:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:55:14 -0700 (MST) From: ML Duke To: Greg Lehey Cc: rootman , Brian Astill , Sue Blake , Yong Lim , Rick Hamell , "SILVER, MICHAEL A" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Function of -newbies In-Reply-To: <20010210142145.F83943@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, Greg Lehey wrote: And Duke replies: This issue will never be agreed upon. Those who think one way -- think what they think. The others -- likewise. It's not worth pursuing further. As always. ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 22:50:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B925D37B6D5 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:49:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f1A6nE300579; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:49:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Kelly Hendrix" , "Yong Lim" Cc: "Rick Hamell" , "SILVER, MICHAEL A" , Subject: RE: Hello from russia! Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:49:13 -0800 Message-ID: <001801c0932d$94384160$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <20010209171114.A1291@hnet04.kellyhendrix.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Frankly, and I sure hope that I speak for everyone, I've always welcomed thoughtful questions from anyone on any FreeBSD-related topic, that were asked by a user of any level, who had taken the trouble to read the documentation on the website. I've personally always felt that with the exception of a little humor now and then to lighten things up, that it's not productive to post metadiscussion to mailing lists or newsgroups. (a metadiscussion is a discussion about a discussion for those that don't know) Posters that need guidance should be sent a polite e-mail steering them to the appropriate forum, and if we start getting too many of them a general e-mail should be sent out that explains the charter of the list. Many lists do this automatically once a month. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Kelly Hendrix > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 2:11 PM > To: Yong Lim > Cc: Rick Hamell; SILVER, MICHAEL A; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Hello from russia! > > > Greetings > > Perhaps the charter could be modified so that newbies could ask > questions about command function and or syntax, i.e. how to mount a msdos > floppy, what's the command to see how much space I have left on my hard > drive, etc. Anything else could be bounced or referred to questions. > It's truly ironic that the nature of this thread, which questions the > raison d`etre of the newbie charter, is exactly the type of content that > was intended for this mailing list. That aside, my opinion is that > unless certain basic questions are allowed to be asked there's no point > having this list. Since the floor seems to be open to this discussion, > perhaps others can chime in and give their .02 worth. > > My .02 worth > > Kelly Hendrix > > On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 03:28:57PM -0500, Yong Lim wrote: > > Is there no middle ground here? For newbies to subscribe to > -questions, it > > is very intimating. I tried and after a few days I had to get out. We > > don't need to scare off newbies but we don't want to give them > wrong answers > > either. > > > > How about sending out disclaimer from this list saying that any answers > > from -newbies should be tested out first. And for better answers check > > with -questions. I assume not many people subscribe to > -newbies are not > > running live production systems. If they are they need to re-examine > > something. But newbies might have starter questions like how > to mount an > > ms-dos floppy on FreeBSD...and a quick answer would carry them > to the next > > stage. > > > > Any way, just another rant...How are you doing to carry on a > conversation if > > you can't do Q&A? :-) > > > > Yong > > > > : -----Original Message----- > > : From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > : [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Hamell > > : Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:24 PM > > : To: SILVER, MICHAEL A > > : Cc: 'freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG' > > : Subject: RE: Hello from russia! > > : > > : > > : > > : > So what if I answer this question here? Is that bad? Does > this rob us > > : > newbies of precious bandwidth that could have been used for > > : non-technical > > : > discussions? > > : > > > : > I just don't get this list. :-) > > : > > : No.... :) This list was created with the cavet that NO technical > > : questions be asked here. Because those who hang on -questions > did not want > > : to be subscribed to yet another email list, AND it was felt that the > > : FreeBSD project needed only one point of contact for technical > > : questions. The secondary effect is that since this is a > -newbie list and > > : newbie could potentially answer a question wrong. Without someone more > > : experienced around to watch for that... bad things could > happen to your > > : system. The simple fact is that this list needs to be renamed to > > : newbie-chat or deleted. :) > > : > > : Rick > > : > > : > > : > > : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > : with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > -- > ______________________________________________________________________ > | There are two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a | > | miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. | > | | > | Albert Einstein (1879-1955) | > |______________________________________________________________________| > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Feb 9 23:59:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (unknown [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5641737B4EC for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:59:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA36825; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:07:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:07:21 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hello from russia! Message-ID: <20010210190719.H19976@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Ted Mittelstaedt , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010209171114.A1291@hnet04.kellyhendrix.com> <001801c0932d$94384160$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <001801c0932d$94384160$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>; from Ted Mittelstaedt on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 10:49:13PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 10:49:13PM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > Frankly, and I sure hope that I speak for everyone, I've > always welcomed thoughtful questions from anyone on any > FreeBSD-related topic, that were asked by a user of any level, > who had taken the trouble to read the documentation on > the website. Just to clarify, I think you're referring to posts to freebsd-questions. This is an example of the attitude of the majority of people who offer help on freebsd-questions. We are very lucky to have such capable volunteer supporters who are open to all kinds of questions. In any group of over a thousand people, you're bound to get an off reply occasionally. That experience can make it difficult to realise how good the majority are. Thanks Ted, and others. > I've personally always felt that with the exception of a > little humor now and then to lighten things up, that it's > not productive to post metadiscussion to mailing lists > or newsgroups. (a metadiscussion is > a discussion about a discussion for those that don't know) Yes, everyone seems to feel like that, except when they are newbies. Fortunately we have the freebsd-newbies list where newbies can engage in what you call metadiscussion without impinging on the other lists. > Posters that need guidance should be sent a polite e-mail > steering them to the appropriate forum, and if we start getting > too many of them a general e-mail should be sent out that > explains the charter of the list. Many lists do this > automatically once a month. Actually, freebsd-newbies sends one out automatically once a week. So does freebsd-questions. People still ask for it to be sent more often, but I think that would be excessive. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 0: 9:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mailfilter.igr.nl (mailfilter.igr.nl [193.78.222.223]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B1137B491 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:09:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from easy.nl ([212.241.42.130]) by mailfilter.igr.nl (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-0U10L2S100V35) with ESMTP id nl for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:08:06 +0100 Message-ID: <3A84F683.81117510@easy.nl> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:06:27 +0100 From: Jaap van Hennik X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: nl, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: subscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 1:52:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3488E37B491 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 01:52:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from C996775-A ([24.16.193.228]) by femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010210095017.IUUR21891.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@C996775-A> for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 01:50:17 -0800 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:52:33 +0000 From: Y X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f) Personal Reply-To: Y Organization: CCAAFF X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <4262002885.20010210095233@home.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Hello from russia! In-reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org he-he, the main purpose of this list - is to gently introduce newbies like myself to the conFusion part of "/var will change da world" thingy. there are a few hundred souls sitting quietly and waiting for a newbie question to get sucked in and as soon as it happens the boredom is eagerly fought with seriously looking and thoroughly polished bs in a very friendly form, mind you. Yet another abstraction, my friend. Welcome to the nest! Feel like you are that little boy from Disney/Kipling "Jungle Book" ? That's a documentary cartoon about us. Best regards, Yuri P.S. it's like not to ask technical questions on a sex list just newbies, you know... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 2:19:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A708537B401 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 02:19:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from C996775-A ([24.16.193.228]) by femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010210101736.IVKZ21891.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@C996775-A> for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 02:17:36 -0800 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:19:51 +0000 From: Y X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f) Personal Reply-To: Y Organization: CCAAFF X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <5763641421.20010210101951@home.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: Hello from russia! In-reply-To: <001801c0932d$94384160$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> References: <001801c0932d$94384160$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Ted, Saturday, February 10, 2001, 06:49:13, you wrotesomething. btw, thank you for your book, it helped me a lot. I had a bet with a friend that those electronic anti-theft gates at Powell's bookstore are fake. So I stole it and a fine book on OpenBSD firewalling. I won the bet - he fed our parking meter. For those who don't know what Powells is AND never been outside US, Powells is the biggest book-store in the entire world. The gates were hacked by a friend in St.Petersbug (where else?). Just doing some newbiing, otherwise you'll sit like those birds and wait again until some non-lurker(i.e. utter outsider)will take ladies' room for men's. how about getting some Vancouver-Portland folk together for the sole purpose of vegetarian barbequeing without a word about Unix? once a presidentail cycle would be OK? or real estate cycle is better? -- Best regards, Y mailto:ure.fake.clothes@home.com remove fake clothes to use e-mail boy, russia unpredictable as always, the reply to post ratio beats any psycho-therapy session i ever was part of. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 3: 0:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (unknown [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5375837B503 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 02:59:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA37237; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:08:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:07:59 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Yuri Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Trolling alert [was: Hello from russia!] Message-ID: <20010210220757.K19976@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Yuri , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG References: <001801c0932d$94384160$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <5763641421.20010210101951@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <5763641421.20010210101951@home.com>; from Y on Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 10:19:51AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just so that it's crystal clear to all concerned: Discussion of illegal activities is off topic on _all_ FreeBSD lists, whether those activities are real or imagined, and it is likely to have you barred from using lists. I know you were only joking, Yuri, but you are trying to get others to believe you and join in, maybe argue with you. That probably seems like fun but it's trolling, and trolling is simply not on. Please don't do it any more. We don't want to lose you! It is extremely rare for people to be kicked off the lists, but last time it happened it was for these kinds of reasons, and it happened here. So here's a newbie exercise in becoming troll-proof: Don't let this guy entice you into behaving in a manner that you normally wouldn't. That's how a troll gets cheap thrills at other people's expense. Reply, and they get worse. What they can't stand is to be ignored. On other FreeBSD lists you'll be expected to know this already. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 4:14:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D2C737B491 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 04:14:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f1ACEA304219; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 04:14:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Sue Blake" Cc: Subject: RE: Hello from russia! Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 04:14:11 -0800 Message-ID: <003901c0935a$fa120ac0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <20010210190719.H19976@welearn.com.au> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Sue Blake > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 12:07 AM > To: Ted Mittelstaedt > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Hello from russia! > > > On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 10:49:13PM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > Frankly, and I sure hope that I speak for everyone, I've > > always welcomed thoughtful questions from anyone on any > > FreeBSD-related topic, that were asked by a user of any level, > > who had taken the trouble to read the documentation on > > the website. > > Just to clarify, I think you're referring to posts to > freebsd-questions. This is an example of the attitude of Mostly, but also to some of the posts in newbies that are basically people saying "don't post that here post it somewhere else" when referring to tech questions. This sort of thing is pointless, there's no interest in renaming the list, people just need to shaaadddddup about it, and people are going to post tech questions in any venue, and people just need to shaaaaddddup about that too. Besides that I'd guess most people are subscribed to both lists and to those that are it's a sensless discussion since no matter where they post your going to see it. Private correction is needed and should be applied by anyone who has time, generally the more correction notices that the recipient gets the quicker they stop inappropriate posting, but this business of posting public "quit doing that here" is rediculous. All it does is trigger the kind of discussion that's going on in newbies now. I've never been on a mailing list or newsgroup that didn't have a lot of trolling, baiting and the rest of it and I've done it myself a few times when the poster is particularly insane, just because after a while you get tired of seeing the same blandishments, and there's some folks that seem to thrive on being ignored, rather than the reverse. In any case discussing trolling is useless too, people get the idea of what it is after a few months anyway. > the majority of people who offer help on freebsd-questions. > We are very lucky to have such capable volunteer supporters > who are open to all kinds of questions. In any group of > over a thousand people, you're bound to get an off reply > occasionally. That experience can make it difficult to > realise how good the majority are. Thanks Ted, and others. > > > I've personally always felt that with the exception of a > > little humor now and then to lighten things up, that it's > > not productive to post metadiscussion to mailing lists > > or newsgroups. (a metadiscussion is > > a discussion about a discussion for those that don't know) > > Yes, everyone seems to feel like that, except when they > are newbies. Fortunately we have the freebsd-newbies list > where newbies can engage in what you call metadiscussion > without impinging on the other lists. > There's metadiscussion and metadiscussion. I try to avoid it and ignore it and generally don't pay much attention until it starts going down this well worn path again. With mailing lists you hear the same thing all the time "let's rename the list" with newsgroups the cry is always "let's split the newsgroup into 2 newsgroups" (BTW, metadiscussion is not my word, but it's not surprising you may not have heard of it before, as it's mainly used in newsgroup work) > > Posters that need guidance should be sent a polite e-mail > > steering them to the appropriate forum, and if we start getting > > too many of them a general e-mail should be sent out that > > explains the charter of the list. Many lists do this > > automatically once a month. > > Actually, freebsd-newbies sends one out automatically once > a week. So does freebsd-questions. People still ask for it So I've heard but I wonder if the mechanism is broken, it's been a while since I've seen one. Although, maybe I've just gotten too efficient at high speed deletion, it's the only way to get through the 200 a day posts without spending all your time at it. > to be sent more often, but I think that would be excessive. > > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 6:59:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFEA137B401 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 06:59:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [166.70.9.46] (helo=blackmirror.xmission.com) by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14RbUa-0006kc-00; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 07:59:17 -0700 From: rootman To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" , "Sue Blake" Subject: RE: Hello from russia! Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 07:05:59 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Cc: References: <003901c0935a$fa120ac0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> In-Reply-To: <003901c0935a$fa120ac0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01021007591201.00251@blackmirror.xmission.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: ---------snip------------------- > > Mostly, but also to some of the posts in newbies that are > basically people saying "don't post that here post it > somewhere else" when referring to tech questions. Yes, this happens a lot and people such as Rick and Sue are probably bloody tired of posting such responses. The rest of us are tired of reading them. > > This sort of thing is pointless, there's no interest in renaming > the list, people just need to shaaadddddup about it, and > people are going to post tech questions in any venue, and > people just need to shaaaaddddup about that too. Besides > that I'd guess most people are subscribed to both lists and > to those that are it's a sensless discussion since no matter > where they post your going to see it. IMO, I think there IS an interest in renaming this list and I feel it would go a long way towards fixing (not all) some of the problems. Sure, even if the name was changed to "FreeBSD-Dontasktechquestionshere", we'd still see a technical question pop up from time to time but that would be a lot better than the number of them that currently surface each day. When I first decided to subscribe to this list, I had just installed FreeBSD 3.4 on a laptop and couldn't get the modem to work. I went to http://www.freebsd.org , clicked on the "Mailing lists" link and noticed the -newbies list. I thought, "I should subscribe to this list because I am a newbie and maybe there are other newbies in there that have fixed the same problem I'm wrestling with." After subscribing to the list and asking my question, I was politely told where to start looking for more information and to try asking questions on -questions. I could have saved myself and others, a lot of time if I would have known to post to -questions in the first place. I was also guilty of not taking the time to read the disclaimer that outlines the purpose of this list, when I first subscribed to it. > > Private correction is needed and should be applied by anyone who > has time, generally the more correction notices that the > recipient gets the quicker they stop inappropriate posting, > but this business of posting public "quit doing that here" > is rediculous. All it does is trigger the kind of discussion > that's going on in newbies now. I think a name change would make the above practice somewhat obsolete, since most people wouldn't be inclined to ask technical questions here in the first place. It would be interesting to know how many people actually engage in private correction and I'm sure those that do, grow tired of it from time to time. > > I've never been on a mailing list or newsgroup that didn't > have a lot of trolling, baiting and the rest of it and I've > done it myself a few times when the poster is particularly > insane, just because after a while you get tired of seeing the > same blandishments, and there's some folks that seem to > thrive on being ignored, rather than the reverse. In any case > discussing trolling is useless too, people get the idea of what > it is after a few months anyway. Agreed but it's still the job of the list moderator to discourage and address these kind of practices so they don't get out of control. > > > the majority of people who offer help on freebsd-questions. > > We are very lucky to have such capable volunteer supporters > > who are open to all kinds of questions. In any group of > > over a thousand people, you're bound to get an off reply > > occasionally. That experience can make it difficult to > > realise how good the majority are. Thanks Ted, and others. > > > > > I've personally always felt that with the exception of a > > > little humor now and then to lighten things up, that it's > > > not productive to post metadiscussion to mailing lists > > > or newsgroups. (a metadiscussion is > > > a discussion about a discussion for those that don't know) > > > > Yes, everyone seems to feel like that, except when they > > are newbies. Fortunately we have the freebsd-newbies list > > where newbies can engage in what you call metadiscussion > > without impinging on the other lists. > > > > There's metadiscussion and metadiscussion. I try to avoid it > and ignore it and generally don't pay much attention until it > starts going down this well worn path again. With mailing lists > you hear the same thing all the time "let's rename the list" > with newsgroups the cry is always "let's split the newsgroup > into 2 newsgroups" (BTW, metadiscussion is not my word, but > it's not surprising you may not have heard of it before, as > it's mainly used in newsgroup work) > > > > Posters that need guidance should be sent a polite e-mail > > > steering them to the appropriate forum, and if we start getting > > > too many of them a general e-mail should be sent out that > > > explains the charter of the list. Many lists do this > > > automatically once a month. > > > > Actually, freebsd-newbies sends one out automatically once > > a week. So does freebsd-questions. People still ask for it > > So I've heard but I wonder if the mechanism is broken, it's been > a while since I've seen one. It's not broken. It's sent out every Friday. A while back, I asked if it could be sent out more often, thinking that it would be received/read by those who had just subscribed to the list and might keep them from asking technical questions. However, most people thought this was a ludicrous request and wouldn't help change things at all. I was just trying to throw some ideas out there but I agree now that it wasn't a good one. I should have stuck with my early gut feeling that a name change would be more helpful. Instead of discussing why or why not a name change would help, why don't we just try it and see what happens? What is there to lose? If it helps and people stop posting as many tech questions as they do now, then everybody wins and I'll shaaaddddup. If it doesn't work, then everyone can email me with the famous "I told ya so!" and I'll shaaaddddup then too. Regards Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 7:19:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4AAC37B401 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 07:19:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f1A97Pu97526; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:07:25 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:07:24 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Ragnar Beer Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ISDN Message-ID: <20010210090721.A97489@canyon.nothing-going-on.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from rbeer@uni-goettingen.de on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 09:59:59PM +0100 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 09:59:59PM +0100, Ragnar Beer wrote: > Ok, here is my question: I'd like to get on the internet. So I wonder > where I can find some information about how to set up ISDN. Is there > a howto somewhere? http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/ N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 8:29:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8198137B503 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 08:29:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from aviating.com (pool0158.cvx36-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.18.158]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06778 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 08:29:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A856C5F.D56B06D9@aviating.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 08:29:19 -0800 From: Jim Allen Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hello from russia! References: <20010209171114.A1291@hnet04.kellyhendrix.com> <001801c0932d$94384160$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <20010210190719.H19976@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As one of the newest newbies, I appreciate all this clarification. My impression from reading the FreeBSD site stuff was they had created the newbie list to take all the questions that newbies have that get asked over and over and over and over again, kind of like a pre-school, from which one eventually graduated to the "Big Stuff[tm]" where one could get answer to big questions. I have the Complete FreeBSD 3rd Edition and the CD-ROMS, and now, with many mis-steps, have managed to get the operating system booting on an older machine to the ? prompt. Does anybody have any suggestions about the issues I should take up first as I try to learn about this. I have no background in Unix whatsoever. I am starting from ground zero and frankly, very little of what I have read makes much sense yet. I have fiddled with microprocessors since the 6502 and 8008. All I have at present is FreeBSD operating on a machine, the manual, and an intense desire to "Say Goodbye to Bill". TIA Jim Allen Sue Blake wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 10:49:13PM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > Frankly, and I sure hope that I speak for everyone, I've > > always welcomed thoughtful questions from anyone on any > > FreeBSD-related topic, that were asked by a user of any level, > > who had taken the trouble to read the documentation on > > the website. > > Just to clarify, I think you're referring to posts to > freebsd-questions. This is an example of the attitude of > the majority of people who offer help on freebsd-questions. > We are very lucky to have such capable volunteer supporters > who are open to all kinds of questions. In any group of > over a thousand people, you're bound to get an off reply > occasionally. That experience can make it difficult to > realise how good the majority are. Thanks Ted, and others. > > > I've personally always felt that with the exception of a > > little humor now and then to lighten things up, that it's > > not productive to post metadiscussion to mailing lists > > or newsgroups. (a metadiscussion is > > a discussion about a discussion for those that don't know) > > Yes, everyone seems to feel like that, except when they > are newbies. Fortunately we have the freebsd-newbies list > where newbies can engage in what you call metadiscussion > without impinging on the other lists. > > > Posters that need guidance should be sent a polite e-mail > > steering them to the appropriate forum, and if we start getting > > too many of them a general e-mail should be sent out that > > explains the charter of the list. Many lists do this > > automatically once a month. > > Actually, freebsd-newbies sends one out automatically once > a week. So does freebsd-questions. People still ask for it > to be sent more often, but I think that would be excessive. > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 9:32:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3210237B401 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:32:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [166.70.9.247] (helo=blackmirror.xmission.com) by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14RdsO-00020Q-00; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:32:00 -0700 From: rootman To: Jim Allen , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hello from russia! Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:58:13 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" References: <20010209171114.A1291@hnet04.kellyhendrix.com> <20010210190719.H19976@welearn.com.au> <3A856C5F.D56B06D9@aviating.com> In-Reply-To: <3A856C5F.D56B06D9@aviating.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01021010315500.00248@blackmirror.xmission.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, Jim Allen wrote: > As one of the newest newbies, I appreciate all this clarification. My > impression from reading the FreeBSD site stuff was they had created the > newbie list to take all the questions that newbies have that get asked > over and over and over and over again, kind of like a pre-school, from > which one eventually graduated to the "Big Stuff[tm]" where one could > get answer to big questions. Right, I think this is the perception of a lot people who are new to FreeBSD and this list. > > I have the Complete FreeBSD 3rd Edition and the CD-ROMS, and now, with > many mis-steps, have managed to get the operating system booting on an > older machine to the ? prompt. Does anybody have any suggestions about > the issues I should take up first as I try to learn about this. I have > no background in Unix whatsoever. I am starting from ground zero and > frankly, very little of what I have read makes much sense yet. I have > fiddled with microprocessors since the 6502 and 8008. All I have at > present is FreeBSD operating on a machine, the manual, and an intense > desire to "Say Goodbye to Bill". > You sound like you're well on your way already. The Complete FreeBSD is a helpful and very good source of information. You should also consult The FreeBSD Handbook that can be found online: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/index.html ..and can also be downloaded in a variety of formats: ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.org/pub/FreeBSD/doc/handbook/ There are tons of FreeBSD help sites out there: http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ.html http://www.freebsd.org/support.html http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ http://www.bsdvault.net/ http://www.mostgraveconcern.com/freebsd/ http://defcon1.org/ http://gargoyle.apana.org.au/~dougy/FreeBSD_Tutorial/ http://www.freebsddiary.org/ The sites above are just the one's I can remember right now but I know there are many more. In your future journeys, if you've consulted the resources above and still come up empty, I would recommend that you search the FreeBSD-Questions mailing list archive here: http://www.freebsd.org/search/search.html#mailinglists ..and if you don't find anything, send a polite email to FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.org and ask for some help. Be as specific as you can, include as much information about the problem as possible and someone will help you. I hope this helps and bid you good luck and welcome! 8^) Regards Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 9:39:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B0337B491 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [166.70.9.247] (helo=blackmirror.xmission.com) by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 14RdzD-0003cI-00; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:39:05 -0700 From: rootman To: jallen@aviating.com Subject: Fwd: Re: Hello from russia! Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:36:02 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01021010385901.00248@blackmirror.xmission.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- >..and if you don't find anything, send a polite email to >FFreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.org and ask for some >help. Be as specific as you can, include as much >information about the problem as possible and someone >will help you. The address above should have been Sorry about that. I was typing too fast. 8^P Regards Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message ------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 9:40:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (unknown [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8AFD37B491 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:40:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA38546; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 04:48:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 04:48:42 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: Jim Allen Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hello from russia! Message-ID: <20010211044832.M19976@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Jim Allen , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010209171114.A1291@hnet04.kellyhendrix.com> <001801c0932d$94384160$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <20010210190719.H19976@welearn.com.au> <3A856C5F.D56B06D9@aviating.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <3A856C5F.D56B06D9@aviating.com>; from Jim Allen on Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 08:29:19AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 08:29:19AM -0800, Jim Allen wrote: > As one of the newest newbies, I appreciate all this clarification. My > impression from reading the FreeBSD site stuff was they had created the > newbie list to take all the questions that newbies have that get asked > over and over and over and over again, kind of like a pre-school, from > which one eventually graduated to the "Big Stuff[tm]" where one could > get answer to big questions. Oh dear... some misinformation must have been put up, but I can't find any sign of it. Please tell me what page on the web site tells you this, and I'll have it corrected immediately. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 9:56:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from web1103.mail.yahoo.com (web1103.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 52DD737B4EC for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:56:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 23899 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Feb 2001 17:56:35 -0000 Message-ID: <20010210175635.23898.qmail@web1103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.200.148.220] by web1103.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:56:35 PST Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:56:35 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Erlin Subject: DHCP Server To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd like to set up my FreeBSD box as a DHCP server. Anyone know of a good step-by-step resource? I searched the handbook, FAQ and mail archives and found things related the DHCP client, but not server. Thanks. --Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 9:59:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6912337B4EC for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:59:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from aviating.com (pool0158.cvx36-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.18.158]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24033; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:59:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A85816B.BF258D99@aviating.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:59:08 -0800 From: Jim Allen Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rootman Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hello from russia! References: <20010209171114.A1291@hnet04.kellyhendrix.com> <20010210190719.H19976@welearn.com.au> <3A856C5F.D56B06D9@aviating.com> <01021010315500.00248@blackmirror.xmission.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Many thanks. This will keep me off the street for a while! Jim Allen rootman wrote: > > > Right, I think this is the perception of a lot people who are new > to FreeBSD and this list. > > > > You sound like you're well on your way already. The Complete FreeBSD > is a helpful and very good source of information. You should also > consult The FreeBSD Handbook that can be found online: > >> SNIP << To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 10: 5:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F420C37B67D for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:04:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from aviating.com (pool0158.cvx36-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.18.158]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07024; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:03:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A858266.59C935F0@aviating.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:03:18 -0800 From: Jim Allen Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hello from russia! References: <20010209171114.A1291@hnet04.kellyhendrix.com> <001801c0932d$94384160$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <20010210190719.H19976@welearn.com.au> <3A856C5F.D56B06D9@aviating.com> <20010211044832.M19976@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > > Oh dear... some misinformation must have been put up, but I can't > find any sign of it. Please tell me what page on the web site tells > you this, and I'll have it corrected immediately. > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > Thanks. It doesn't say it that way explicitly, just the impression I had of how it worked. I am ingesting a great deal of information on a completely new topic very rapidly, and sometimes, the impression one gets isn't accurate on the first pass. It's all straight now, at least for me, I think. Hopefully. I'm looking forward to the journey. Jim Allen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 10:37: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from myristaja.eenet.ee (myristaja.eenet.ee [193.40.0.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E385C37B491 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:36:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (oolberg@localhost) by myristaja.eenet.ee (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA38954 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:36:44 +0200 (EET) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:36:44 +0200 (EET) From: Imre Oolberg To: Subject: Re: DHCP Server In-Reply-To: <20010210175635.23898.qmail@web1103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, > I'd like to set up my FreeBSD box as a DHCP server. > Anyone know of a good step-by-step resource? I > searched the handbook, FAQ and mail archives and found > things related the DHCP client, but not server. first thing i would do in such a situation is to grab program source, good people have accompanied it surely with couple of examples. Imre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 11:35:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from skywalker.mis.boun.edu.tr (skywalker.mis.boun.edu.tr [193.140.205.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B719A37B491 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:35:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by skywalker.mis.boun.edu.tr (8.10.1/8.11.0) id f1AJWEf19760 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:32:14 +0200 (EET) From: Omer Faruk Sen X-Authentication-Warning: skywalker.mis.boun.edu.tr: nobody set sender to ofsen@mis.boun.edu.tr using -f To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Message-ID: <981833534.3a85973e3f7b2@webmail.mis.boun.edu.tr> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:32:14 +0200 (EET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.2 X-Originating-IP: 212.253.3.42 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This mail is sent through MIS webmail -- http://webmail.mis.boun.edu.tr/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 11:48:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EF1037B698 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:48:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from C996775-A ([24.16.193.228]) by femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010210194620.KTBD21891.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@C996775-A> for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:46:20 -0800 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:48:33 +0000 From: Y X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f) Personal Reply-To: Y Organization: CCAAFF X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <942176599.20010210194833@home.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Hello -*Sue*- In-reply-To: <20010210220757.K19976@welearn.com.au> References: <001801c0932d$94384160$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <5763641421.20010210101951@home.com> <20010210220757.K19976@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello -*Sue*-, thanks for correcting me. I am a reformed man now. Still, the only thing that brings this list to life is an "offtopic post". Have you ever thought about this? Have you ever thought in your life? You'd be still using Multics if it were not for two men who broke some rules and had fun. Besides, they did some thinking. I was not "trying others to believe" me, believe me. The lie was too transparaent for "others" to argue. As for "cheap thrills" that what YOU get when a person is asking for help on this list, this is the only way to show some unnecessary and misplaced "authority" you are imposing on yourself. Your life will become much easier when you learn not to take _yourself_ too seriously. That's a newbie excercise in becoming happy. Have fun, -*Sue*- , make your bathroom crystal clear. Ted, your book is still good :)Thank you again. Saturday, February 10, 2001, 11:07:59, you wrote: SB> Just so that it's crystal clear to all concerned: SB> Discussion of illegal activities is off topic on _all_ FreeBSD lists, SB> whether those activities are real or imagined, and it is likely to SB> have you barred from using lists. SB> I know you were only joking, Yuri, but you are trying to get others to SB> believe you and join in, maybe argue with you. That probably seems like SB> fun but it's trolling, and trolling is simply not on. Please don't do SB> it any more. We don't want to lose you! SB> It is extremely rare for people to be kicked off the lists, but SB> last time it happened it was for these kinds of reasons, and it SB> happened here. SB> So here's a newbie exercise in becoming troll-proof: Don't let this SB> guy entice you into behaving in a manner that you normally wouldn't. SB> That's how a troll gets cheap thrills at other people's expense. SB> Reply, and they get worse. What they can't stand is to be ignored. SB> On other FreeBSD lists you'll be expected to know this already. -- Best regards, Y To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 12: 7:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hnet04.kellyhendrix.com (unknown [208.233.247.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA0537B69D for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:07:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by hnet04.kellyhendrix.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DAC2218C8B; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:08:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:08:04 -0500 From: Kelly Hendrix To: rootman Cc: Ted Mittelstaedt , Sue Blake , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hello from russia! Message-ID: <20010210150804.A8172@hnet04.kellyhendrix.com> Reply-To: Kelly Hendrix References: <003901c0935a$fa120ac0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <01021007591201.00251@blackmirror.xmission.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <01021007591201.00251@blackmirror.xmission.com>; from rootman@xmission.com on Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 07:05:59AM -0700 X-Freebsd-Version: FreeBSD 4.2-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greetings > A while back, I asked if it could be sent out more often, thinking > that it would be received/read by those who had just subscribed > to the list and might keep them from asking technical questions. > However, most people thought this was a ludicrous request and > wouldn't help change things at all. I was just trying to throw some > ideas out there but I agree now that it wasn't a good one. I should > have stuck with my early gut feeling that a name change would be > more helpful. Perhaps this email could be sent out to all new subscribers, along with the welcome message everyone gets. Not saying this will completely eliminate all technical questions, but it might give pause to many of the people who subscribed thinking this is the correct place for newcomers to FreeBSD to ask questions. Kelly -- ______________________________________________________________________ | There are two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a | | miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. | | | | Albert Einstein (1879-1955) | |______________________________________________________________________| To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 22:29:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mink.ecitele.com (mink.ecitele.com [147.234.1.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC8A37B401; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from olive.ecitele.com (ilsmtp04.ecitele.com [147.234.8.125]) by mink.ecitele.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA29027; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 08:27:43 +0200 (IST) From: Uri.Shenderovich@lightscapenet.com Subject: Installation of FreeBSD 4.1 and BootManager To: freebsd-guestions@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.2b (Intl) 16 December 1999 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 08:28:31 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on ILSMTP04/ECI Telecom(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at 02/11/2001 08:31:41 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi , I was trying to install FreeBSD 4.1 and since I have another OSes at the same disk I wasn't to use the FreeBSD's boot manager. Even though at the time of installation I toggled the options not to install it, after the installation finished and the computer was rebooted, I saw that BootManager was installed and screw the previously installed manager , at the MBR. Is it bug or I did something wrong ? May be somebody has similar experience ? Thanks, Uri To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Feb 10 22:52:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.rdc1.il.home.com (mail1.rdc1.il.home.com [24.2.1.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5BA37B401 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:52:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from MediaOne ([24.182.46.144]) by mail1.rdc1.il.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010211065219.FOZK9831.mail1.rdc1.il.home.com@MediaOne>; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:52:19 -0800 Message-ID: <007c01c093f7$287d9d60$6401a8c0@elmhst1.il.home.com> From: "Katie Lebbin" To: Cc: References: Subject: Re: Installation of FreeBSD 4.1 and BootManager Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:52:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Uri, I experienced a similar problem during my first installation of FreeBSD 4.0. When presented with the Boot Management screen I highlighted the "no bootmanager" option and could have sworn that I toggled it with the space bar. This is the part where I obviously screwed up, because what really happened is I just hit "Enter". And so, when I rebooted after installation I was indeed using the MBR. I had to reinstall and this time I was very careful about making sure that the * was toggled at "no boot manager". After that everything was fine. I don't know if that is what happened to you, because for all I know there may well be a bug in the 4.1 release. However, it is very easy to make a mistake the first time you attempt a FreeBSD installation. Hope this helps! --Katie Lebbin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 12:28 AM Subject: Installation of FreeBSD 4.1 and BootManager > Hi , > I was trying to install FreeBSD 4.1 and since I have another OSes at the > same disk > I wasn't to use the FreeBSD's boot manager. > Even though at the time of installation I toggled the options not to > install it, after the > installation finished and the computer was rebooted, I saw that BootManager > was installed and screw the previously installed manager , at the MBR. > > Is it bug or I did something wrong ? > May be somebody has similar experience ? > > Thanks, > Uri > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message