From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sun Mar  4  7:44:43 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mx2out.umbc.edu (mx2out.umbc.edu [130.85.253.52])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565D037B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sun,  4 Mar 2001 07:44:38 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from gmiddl1@gl.umbc.edu)
Received: from irix1.gl.umbc.edu (gmiddl1@irix1.gl.umbc.edu [130.85.60.8])
	by mx2out.umbc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25385;
	Sun, 4 Mar 2001 10:44:34 -0500 (EST)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 10:44:32 -0500
From: "G. Jason Middleton" <gmiddl1@gl.umbc.edu>
To: <treznor@sunflower.com>
Cc: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>, <steffen@vorrix.com>
Subject: Re: FreeBSD Books
In-Reply-To: <20010303025956.63571.qmail@web12502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.31L.02.0103041043490.1950439-100000@irix1.gl.umbc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

A brotherhood it is!!  Alpha Beta BSD!!




On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Tyler McGeorge wrote:

> I, myself, asked the same question as the my first
> activity on this mailing list. However, I had been
> running  FreeBSD for 3 months prior to subscribing,
> and I was still floundering. The best response I got
> from my inquery about good books was that books tend
> to become outdated and require constant updating of
> one's library. Which is fine, because, I know I love
> to sit down and read a book (even if it is a Unix
> manual, my friends think I'm strange.) However, the
> best sources for information are usually online. If
> you have a question or problem, go to your favorite
> online search engine and type in, "<problem> tutorial"
> and it will usually come up with something useful.
> Another good source is the wide variety of websites
> devoted to FreeBSD, *BSD in general and *nix in
> general. A favorite being www.freebsddiary.org. And
> there is always FreeBSD-Questions mailing list.
>
> I have bought two Unix books. My first one was the
> Unix Bible (which was very detailed in Unix theory but
> not very practical for learning how to do stuff) and
> (I don't remember the exact name) The Unix Desktop
> Guide, which is a book packed full of glossary terms,
> scripting help and general usage of prompt. Neither of
> these are nessesarily for FreeBSD. The Unix Bible
> deals with FreeBSD and HP as their two primary
> examples (the book comes packaged with Slackware
> Linux, go figure.)
>
> I've recently done some research on my next purchase
> as far as Unix books go. I went to Amazon.com and was
> looking for a book on socket programming in C in Unix.
> I don't recall the exact name of the book, but it was
> rated well at Amazon.com and Barnes & Noble.
>
> In the FreeBSD community, almost everybody is willing
> to help. In fact, I saw a guy walking down the street
> with a FreeBSD t-shirt on (I haven't ordered mine yet,
> unfortunately) and I started talking to him. It's a
> brotherhood, I tells ya.
>
> Tyler
> > Steffen Vorrix wrote:
> >
> > Can someone tell me about good freebsd books to
> buy.  I have been to
> > the web site and read the freebsd handbook there.
> That seems to be a
> > very good source of information, but I find that I
> can read material
> > easier if I have the information bound in front of
> me.  I also
> > subscribe to a few mailing lists, but as a Windows
> guy in a previous
> > life, getting all of the subtleties of FreeBSD is
> a little
> > challenging.  I am interested in learing about
> home and corporate
> > use.  I have seen The Complete FreeBSD and The
> FreeBSD Handbook, as
> > well as The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide.
> Does anyone own
> > these, and are they any good?  The reviews of the
> first two books tend
> > be good, although both also tend to suggest the
> books are dated.  I am
> > sure that I can find plenty of information on the
> web, but a good
> > reference starter book available at the fingertips
> would be a great
> > help.
> >
> > Steffen Vorrix
> > steffen@vorrix.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>

G. Jason Middleton


_______________________________________________________________________________






Announcement:

The revolution will not be televised.




To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sun Mar  4 11:34:53 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from ns1.unixathome.org (ns1.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15F6137B719
	for <newbies@freebsd.org>; Sun,  4 Mar 2001 11:34:50 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dan@langille.org)
Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99])
	by ns1.unixathome.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f24JYlI25468
	for <newbies@freebsd.org>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:34:47 +1300 (NZDT)
	(envelope-from dan@langille.org)
Message-Id: <200103041934.f24JYlI25468@ns1.unixathome.org>
From: "Dan Langille" <dan@langille.org>
Organization: novice in training
To: newbies@freebsd.org
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:34:45 +1300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: proposed regular posting of FreeBSD Diary announcement
Reply-To: dan@langille.org
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c)
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Hi folk,

Someone wrote to me and suggested that in addition to posting the 
FreeBSD Diary announcement -questions, I should also post it to -
newbies.  The purpose of this message is to ask the readers of newbies 
if they like this idea.

The messages is posted on a weekly basis.  For an example of 
previous FreeBSD Diary announcements see:

http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=2884018+0+archive/2001/fr
eebsd-questions/20010225.freebsd-questions

Thanks.

-- 
Dan Langille
pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php
got any work?  I'm looking for some.

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sun Mar  4 18:25: 7 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from arion.ocn.ne.jp (arion.ocn.ne.jp [211.6.83.136])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3531937B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sun,  4 Mar 2001 18:25:02 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from thebob@arion.ocn.ne.jp)
Received: from [192.168.0.1] (p0411-ip01kokuryo.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [61.119.152.157])
	by arion.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with SMTP id LAA11782
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:25:00 +0900 (JST)
Message-Id: <200103050225.LAA11782@arion.ocn.ne.jp>
Subject: My first experiences installing FreeBSD ( sorry a bit long)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:25:00 +0900
x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998
From: "thebob@arion.ocn.ne.jp" <thebob@arion.ocn.ne.jp>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Hi All


I've been on this list for a couple of weeks and I was a bit perplexed
cos some of the replies seemed to be in my opinion, a little 
uninformative.

Well I just recieved  FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit posting from the 
administrators and this cleared everything up for me.

I am a bit of an old hand at mailing lists, and I always lerk for a 
bit, till I get the idea of the kind of content that is acceptable.

On this list I think it served me well. 

Possibly the mail  FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit should be sent as a
welcome.... after saying this I've just reviewed the initial welcome
to the list mail I recieved and it does point to a page with all the
relevant info. But honestly, who really reads FAQ's.

OK with that suggestion out of the way, I'll get on to my newbie 
experience with FreeBSD.

I have a home LAN served by my Mac with a couple of PC'S (386i machines)
on it. One of my PC's wasnt being used for much so I decieded to
install FreeBSD. Among the many reasons for this choice was Mac OSX,
which I had heard was using BSD as a conponent.

Well first I thought about buying a CD version, but as I have a fixed 
rate 24 hour connection the FTP option sounded exellent, but I was a 
little sceptical if I could get it to work. I figured that the worst 
that could happen was that I would have to reformat the HD and reinstall
Windows if I couldn't get it to run.

My spare PC is a Cyrix 300 with 96Mb/RAM and a 12Gig HD and an Ethernet
Card (Corega). Anyway it could talk to my network cos I'd used it under
Windows. So how hard could it be.

My situation was very good in the respect that I could read the online 
docs on one computer while installing on another. First thing was to 
make the 2 boot floppys from the images. Very easy, extremely well
documented in the Read.me file.

I didn't even know which one to use first. So my trouble shooting began.

If you do it for no other reason,installing FreeBSD, will give you 
valuable trouble shooting experience. 

Well I was looking at this as a learning thing so I just kept at it.

It took me a while to load the kernal defaults and get to the install
screen but once I had got as far as the GUI, no mouse of course I 
began to love the clear discriptions and easy to follow tips.

Getting as far as choosing an installation media type I got a little
nervous. Am I really gonna let this thing download an OS from the
command line over FTP. Well of course the first couple of times I didn't
have the FTP setup correctly. I managed to enable DHCP on my server
which helped a lot, and finally I entered the DNS of my ISP rather than 
my LAN and it started downloading.

Excellent I was feeling very happy with myself. It took ages... more
than 6 hours later, after responding to a few dialog boxes on the way
I managed to boot the thing from its own HD and I settled back and felt
proud of my self.

The next step was loading X, well after typing startx a few times I 
realised it was not installed, researced the handbook, did a 
/stand/sysinstall a few times (kept forgetting the first "/" )
and accidentally started to install the thing again...

Humm. This time I knew it would work but was not looking forward waiting
so long. I was lucky to work out how to change to a more local server.
I'm in Japan, so I decided to use their #3 server, it was in the middle
of the list so I figured that it would have less traffic. and this time
the bytes just flew in. A couple of hours later, I was back in sysinstall.

This time I found the post install config menu, then install additional
distrubution sets, and finally XFree86 Server.

Since then I have had to configure a few more times, but the point is
each time I have learnt valuable lessons on how to proceed. I haven't 
asked a single question, on a single list but I have learnt by my own
mistakes.

Now I'm new to all this but I think that some of my lessons will be
usefull to all.

1. Use an old, non mission critical machine to practise on.

2 If you run into problems use your brain first, ask questions last.
At least this way your questions will make sense.

3. Take your time.
I'm sure that people do set up FreeBSD the first time correctly, but
the people who do probably study the docs for just as long as it takes
the rest of us to get it up and running.

4. When you do get a problem, look at it as test.
I try to think that other people have done this, so can I. I'm not 
stupid just ignorant of FreeBSD, and once I solve this problem by
my self I will be correcting that ignorance.

I hope this ramble was interesting to some of you, and I'm interested
in hearing what you have done, or want to do, with FreeBSD.

Please reply, even if your reply is negative, I'm very thick skinned.

All the best
If you all try hard enough I'm sure you can work it out.

thebob.



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar  5  7: 6:39 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from dfw-smtpout1.email.verio.net (dfw-smtpout1.email.verio.net [129.250.36.41])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B7FA37B718
	for <newbies@freebsd.org>; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 07:06:35 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from yong@csfi.com)
Received: from [129.250.38.56] (helo=dfw-corpmmp1.email.verio.net)
	by dfw-smtpout1.email.verio.net with esmtp
	id 14ZwZG-00072z-00; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 15:06:34 +0000
Received: from [204.1.38.26] (helo=yongdell)
	by dfw-corpmmp1.email.verio.net with smtp
	id 14ZwZF-0004x5-00; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 15:06:34 +0000
From: "Yong Lim" <yong@csfi.com>
To: <dan@langille.org>, <newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: proposed regular posting of FreeBSD Diary announcement
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:07:13 -0500
Message-ID: <NDBBLNEEEKNNPEMEDDDKKECPCPAA.yong@csfi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
In-Reply-To: <200103041934.f24JYlI25468@ns1.unixathome.org>
Importance: Normal
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

That's a great idea, Dan.

Yong


: -----Original Message-----
: From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
: [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Dan Langille
: Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 2:35 PM
: To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
: Subject: proposed regular posting of FreeBSD Diary announcement
: 
: 
: Hi folk,
: 
: Someone wrote to me and suggested that in addition to posting the 
: FreeBSD Diary announcement -questions, I should also post it to -
: newbies.  The purpose of this message is to ask the readers of newbies 
: if they like this idea.
: 
: The messages is posted on a weekly basis.  For an example of 
: previous FreeBSD Diary announcements see:
: 
: http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=2884018+0+archive/2001/fr
: eebsd-questions/20010225.freebsd-questions
: 
: Thanks.
: 
: -- 
: Dan Langille
: pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php
: got any work?  I'm looking for some.
: 
: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
: with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar  5 10:28: 4 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from operamail.com (OperaMail.com [199.29.68.79])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A1137B71A
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 10:28:01 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from leegold@operamail.com)
X-WM-Posted-At: operamail.com; Mon, 5 Mar 01 13:28:00 -0500
X-WebMail-UserID:  leegold
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:28:00 -0500
From: leegold <leegold@operamail.com>
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00000000
Subject: pretty basic question
Message-ID: <3AE76AA5@operamail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.61.08
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

if i want to join this mailing list were do I send an eamil message
and what do I put either in the body of the email or in the subject
line?

beleive it or not I can't find a link that fully explains this on
FreeBSD.org

thanks


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar  5 10:28:14 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from operamail.com (OperaMail.com [199.29.68.79])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C9537B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 10:28:01 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from leegold@operamail.com)
X-WM-Posted-At: operamail.com; Mon, 5 Mar 01 13:27:45 -0500
X-WebMail-UserID:  leegold
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:27:45 -0500
From: leegold <leegold@operamail.com>
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00000000
Subject: pretty basic question
Message-ID: <3AE769E1@operamail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.61.08
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

if i want to join this mailing list were do I send an eamil message
and what do I put either in the body of the email or in the subject
line?

beleive it or not I can't find a link that fully explains this on
FreeBSD.org

thanks


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar  5 10:28:16 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from operamail.com (OperaMail.com [199.29.68.79])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E1B837B71C
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 10:28:12 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from leegold@operamail.com)
X-WM-Posted-At: operamail.com; Mon, 5 Mar 01 13:28:11 -0500
X-WebMail-UserID:  leegold
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:28:11 -0500
From: leegold <leegold@operamail.com>
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00000000
Subject: pretty basic question
Message-ID: <3AE76B7B@operamail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.61.08
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

if i want to join this mailing list were do I send an eamil message
and what do I put either in the body of the email or in the subject
line?

beleive it or not I can't find a link that fully explains this on
FreeBSD.org

thanks


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar  5 10:28:18 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from operamail.com (OperaMail.com [199.29.68.79])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A9E537B71A
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 10:28:15 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from leegold@operamail.com)
X-WM-Posted-At: operamail.com; Mon, 5 Mar 01 13:28:14 -0500
X-WebMail-UserID:  leegold
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:28:14 -0500
From: leegold <leegold@operamail.com>
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00000000
Subject: pretty basic question
Message-ID: <3AE76BA5@operamail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.61.08
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

if i want to join this mailing list were do I send an eamil message
and what do I put either in the body of the email or in the subject
line?

beleive it or not I can't find a link that fully explains this on
FreeBSD.org

thanks


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar  5 10:38: 3 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F5037B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 10:38:01 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from hamellr@1nova.com)
Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000)
	id B1B9718C8; Sun,  4 Mar 2001 11:01:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id A022E18C6; Sun,  4 Mar 2001 11:01:46 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 11:01:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Rick Hamell <hamellr@heorot.1nova.com>
To: leegold <leegold@operamail.com>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: pretty basic question
In-Reply-To: <3AE76B7B@operamail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0103041100190.51982-100000@heorot.1nova.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


> if i want to join this mailing list were do I send an eamil message
> and what do I put either in the body of the email or in the subject
> line?
> 
> beleive it or not I can't find a link that fully explains this on
> FreeBSD.org

	I don't believe it... :)

	Goto www.freebsd.org, click on mailing lists on the left hand
side. On the next page click on the first link that says mailing
lists. That explains everything you need to know to subscribe to
freebsd-newbies. :) Specifically, look at section C.1.2 "How to
Subscribe."

	Rick

*******************************************************************
Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd
Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware
***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar  5 11:28: 8 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from clyde.goodleaf.net (piscator.seanet.com [199.181.165.218])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16DC37B718
	for <newbies@freebsd.org>; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 11:28:04 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from goodleaf@clyde.goodleaf.net)
Received: by clyde.goodleaf.net (Postfix, from userid 1001)
	id E18D15BB5; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 11:33:18 -0800 (PST)
References: <3AE769E1@operamail.com>
In-Reply-To: <3AE769E1@operamail.com> 
From: "J.Goodleaf" <john@goodleaf.net>
To: leegold <leegold@operamail.com>
Cc: newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: pretty basic question
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 19:33:18 GMT
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <20010305193318.E18D15BB5@clyde.goodleaf.net>
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


You send the subscribe note to majordomo. 

Directions are midway down the page here:
http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL 

 -John
leegold writes: 

> if i want to join this mailing list were do I send an eamil message
> and what do I put either in the body of the email or in the subject
> line? 
> 
> beleive it or not I can't find a link that fully explains this on
> FreeBSD.org 
> 
> thanks 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message 
> 
 


                               _____________________________
                               |        J. Goodleaf        |
                               |                           |
                           / ) | Technology Coordinator    |
                          / /  | FreeBSD Advocate          |
                         ( (   | email ==>                 |
                       (((\ \> |/ )  john@goodleaf.net     |
                       (\\\\ \_/ /_________________________|
                        \       /
                         \    _/
                         /   /
                        /   / 

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar  5 15:39:15 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 86B6F37B718; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 15:39:04 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from mrodri@enteract.com)
Received: from [147.126.50.163] ([147.126.50.163])
	by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24126;
	Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:39:02 -0600 (CST)
	(envelope-from mrodri@enteract.com)
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 17:40:04 -0600
Subject: BSD user group in Chicago
From: Markemmanuel <mrodri@enteract.com>
To: <freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org>, <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>,
	<freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Message-ID: <B6C97FF4.1D47%mrodri@enteract.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Hi there!  I'm looking for a BSD user group in the Chica.  The link that wa=
s
the freebsd.org web site sent me to a site with a forbidden directory.  I
also checked the mailing lists to search for more information to no avail.
Please email me directly because I am not subscribed to the mailing list an=
d
I don=B9t' want to waste bandwidth for mailing lists.  Thanks! :)

--markemmanuel, super BSDnewbie


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar  5 16:16:45 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF43337B71B
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 16:16:39 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jallen@aviating.com)
Received: from aviating.com (pool0090.cvx26-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.222.90])
	by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07471
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:16:38 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <3AA42C65.5FB8BDCC@aviating.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:16:37 -0800
From: Slim <jallen@aviating.com>
Organization: none
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: fr
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: FreeBSD Newbies <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Hardware Mystery
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

I doubt this has any thing to do with FreeBSD directly, but here's the
problem:

I recently acquired FreeBSD, and thought it would be a good idea to
install it and do my learning on a separate spare machine.  I had a
recently retired P133 sitting around, and that was pressed into service.

I installed FreeBSD on this machine, and since then, it has been
difficult to boot up.  When the machine is turned on, it whirrs the CD
drive, the HD whirrs a bit, then stops.  The signal light on the monitor
doesn't come on, either.  After any number of re-sets and re-starts, it
will eventually work, the signal light goes on, and the boot up is
completed.

My guess is that it is a hardware problem completely unrelated to
installing FreeBSD. I do not recall seeing this behavior in the past, on
this or any other machine.  Any ideas/clues/suggestions. etc?

TIA

Jim Allen

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar  5 19:29: 8 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from ultra.ultra.net.au (ultra.ultra.net.au [203.20.237.5])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 600A037B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org>; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 19:29:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from stephen@ultra.net.au)
Received: from allan (allan.ultra.net.au [203.56.100.19])
	by ultra.ultra.net.au (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f263SwK18092
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:28:58 +1000 (EST)
Message-ID: <000a01c0a5ee$50c940e0$136438cb@ultra.net.au>
From: "Stephen" <stephen@ultra.net.au>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org>
Subject: Sendmail.
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:34:12 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A642.21B1B2C0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A642.21B1B2C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

What is the command that will be able to show me the current version of =
Sendmail that I am running.

Cheers,
Stephen Conn

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A642.21B1B2C0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What is the command that will be able =
to show me=20
the current version of Sendmail that I am running.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Stephen Conn</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A642.21B1B2C0--


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar  5 21: 3: 1 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F3037B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 21:02:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com)
Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154])
	by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f2652qN89024;
	Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:02:52 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com)
From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
To: "Stephen" <stephen@ultra.net.au>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: Sendmail.
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:02:52 -0800
Message-ID: <000201c0a5fa$b2845d40$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
In-Reply-To: <000a01c0a5ee$50c940e0$136438cb@ultra.net.au>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0
Importance: Normal
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Telnet localhost 25

Ted Mittelstaedt                      tedm@toybox.placo.com
Author of:          The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
Book website:         http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
[mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Stephen
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 7:34 PM
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Sendmail.


Hi,

What is the command that will be able to show me the current version of
Sendmail that I am running.

Cheers,
Stephen Conn


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar  5 21:40:36 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE49F37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 21:40:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from hamellr@1nova.com)
Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000)
	id DEC3A18C8; Sun,  4 Mar 2001 22:04:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id CD2DB18C6; Sun,  4 Mar 2001 22:04:45 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 22:04:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Rick Hamell <hamellr@heorot.1nova.com>
To: Slim <jallen@aviating.com>
Cc: FreeBSD Newbies <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Hardware Mystery
In-Reply-To: <3AA42C65.5FB8BDCC@aviating.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0103042203360.53104-100000@heorot.1nova.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


	Please ask questions in -questions. -Newbies is not for technical
type questions.

	On a side note - your power supply is most likely going bad. Check
the wattage.

	Rick


*******************************************************************
Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd
Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware
***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org

On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Slim wrote:

> I doubt this has any thing to do with FreeBSD directly, but here's the
> problem:
> 
> I recently acquired FreeBSD, and thought it would be a good idea to
> install it and do my learning on a separate spare machine.  I had a
> recently retired P133 sitting around, and that was pressed into service.
> 
> I installed FreeBSD on this machine, and since then, it has been
> difficult to boot up.  When the machine is turned on, it whirrs the CD
> drive, the HD whirrs a bit, then stops.  The signal light on the monitor
> doesn't come on, either.  After any number of re-sets and re-starts, it
> will eventually work, the signal light goes on, and the boot up is
> completed.
> 
> My guess is that it is a hardware problem completely unrelated to
> installing FreeBSD. I do not recall seeing this behavior in the past, on
> this or any other machine.  Any ideas/clues/suggestions. etc?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Jim Allen
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
> 


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Tue Mar  6  7:22:56 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from hotmail.com (f80.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.80])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 91AC837B718; Tue,  6 Mar 2001 07:22:52 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from samanthahamon@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:22:51 -0800
Received: from 216.228.161.21 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;	Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:22:51 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [216.228.161.21]
From: "Samantha Hamon" <samanthahamon@hotmail.com>
To: majordomo@FreeBSD.org, leegold@operamail.com,
	freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: pretty basic question
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:22:51 -0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <F80k31TZ14eBa1kg3Am00009424@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2001 15:22:51.0760 (UTC) FILETIME=[4F31CF00:01C0A651]
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THIS FREEBSD INSANITY !

>From: leegold <leegold@operamail.com>
>To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
>Subject: pretty basic question
>Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:28:11 -0500
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119])by 
>mail.bendnet.com (8.11.2/8.11.2/BendNet) with ESMTP id f25ISRf47935for 
><samantha@bendnet.com>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:28:28 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18])by 
>mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPid 8445B564C8; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 
>10:27:34 -0800 (PST)(envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG)
>Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538)id 4C96237B71E; Mon, 
>  5 Mar 2001 10:28:15 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])by hub.freebsd.org 
>(Postfix) with SMTPid 382DD2E8321; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 10:28:15 -0800 
>(PST)(envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies)
>Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:28:15 
>-0800
>Received: from operamail.com (OperaMail.com [199.29.68.79])by 
>hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E1B837B71Cfor 
><freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Mon,  5 Mar 2001 10:28:12 -0800 
>(PST)(envelope-from leegold@operamail.com)
>Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
>Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
>X-WM-Posted-At: operamail.com; Mon, 5 Mar 01 13:28:11 -0500
>X-WebMail-UserID:  leegold
>X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00000000
>Message-ID: <3AE76B7B@operamail.com>
>X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.61.08
>Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
>X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
>Precedence: bulk
>Status:  O
>
>if i want to join this mailing list were do I send an eamil message
>and what do I put either in the body of the email or in the subject
>line?
>
>beleive it or not I can't find a link that fully explains this on
>FreeBSD.org
>
>thanks
>
>
>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
>with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Tue Mar  6  7:52:19 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from trill.hh.se (trill.hh.se [194.47.5.10])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id DCB3E37B718; Tue,  6 Mar 2001 07:52:15 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from u98jobj@stud.hh.se)
Received: from gs177.gsten.hh.se (chip@L22-212.gsten.hh.se [194.47.16.177])
	by trill.hh.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19162;
	Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:52:05 +0100 (MET)
Message-ID: <XFMail.010306165206.u98jobj@stud.hh.se>
X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <F80k31TZ14eBa1kg3Am00009424@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:52:06 +0100 (CET)
From: Joel Bjork <u98jobj@stud.hh.se>
To: Samantha Hamon <samanthahamon@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: pretty basic question
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, leegold@operamail.com,
	majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


On 06-Mar-01 Samantha Hamon wrote:
> 
> PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THIS FREEBSD INSANITY !
>>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
>>with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

Look at the bottom of each message.

----------------------------------
E-Mail: Joel Bjork <u98jobj@stud.hh.se>
Date: 06-Mar-01
Time: 16:52:06
----------------------------------

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Tue Mar  6 11:53:14 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6092F37B718
	for <newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Tue,  6 Mar 2001 11:53:07 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA18382;
	Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:52:57 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdQ18380; Wed Mar  7 05:52:54 2001
Message-ID: <01b601c0a677$28b14880$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: <dan@langille.org>, <newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <200103041934.f24JYlI25468@ns1.unixathome.org>
Subject: Re: proposed regular posting of FreeBSD Diary announcement
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:53:45 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Sounds like a good idea

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Langille" <dan@langille.org>
To: <newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 5:34 AM
Subject: proposed regular posting of FreeBSD Diary announcement


> Hi folk,
> 
> Someone wrote to me and suggested that in addition to posting the 
> FreeBSD Diary announcement -questions, I should also post it to -
> newbies.  The purpose of this message is to ask the readers of newbies 
> if they like this idea.
> 
> The messages is posted on a weekly basis.  For an example of 
> previous FreeBSD Diary announcements see:
> 
> http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=2884018+0+archive/2001/fr
> eebsd-questions/20010225.freebsd-questions
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> Dan Langille
> pgpkey - finger dan@unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php
> got any work?  I'm looking for some.
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
> 


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Tue Mar  6 12:54:57 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from Mail.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE (mail.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.1.48])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B63C637B719
	for <newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Tue,  6 Mar 2001 12:54:47 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de)
Received: by Mail.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE (Smail3.2.0.98)
	  from [130.133.197.137] (130.133.197.137) with esmtp
	  id <m14aOTk-00Nz0ZC>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:54:44 +0100 (MET)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:54:44 +0100 (MET)
X-Sender: uzs106@mailin.uni-bonn.de (Unverified)
Message-Id: <l03102801b6cb0bb1532a@[130.133.197.137]>
In-Reply-To: <01b601c0a677$28b14880$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
References: <200103041934.f24JYlI25468@ns1.unixathome.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>, <dan@langille.org>,
	<newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
From: Heiko Recktenwald <uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Subject: Re: proposed regular posting of FreeBSD Diary announcement
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

At 5:53 Uhr +1000 07.03.2001, Doug Young wrote:
>Sounds like a good idea

Well, to add some noise, please forgive me, wouldnt it, in theory, be
enough to post the URL where people can subscribe a special newsletter ?
Maybe on a regular base ? Maybe Sue could put it into her regular postings ?


Just my very humble opinion. How should newbies learn internet style ?

Sorry for my bad english and thanks for the kind question. Thats style ;-)

Best, H.




To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Tue Mar  6 18: 4:54 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from smtp4.cbn.net.id (smtp4.cbn.net.id [202.158.2.54])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9200F37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Tue,  6 Mar 2001 18:04:52 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from yahya@cbn.net.id)
Received: from navajo.int.cbn.net.id (unknown [202.158.50.86])
	by smtp4.cbn.net.id (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16EA25369F
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 09:04:45 +0700 (JAVT)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:08:21 +0700 (JAVT)
From: kisanak@cbn.net.id
X-Sender: yahya@navajo.int.cbn.net.id
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Upgrade packages from ports
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0103070906520.87609-100000@navajo.int.cbn.net.id>
Organization: PT. Cyberindo Aditama
X-Mailer: Pine 4.21 (FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Dear All,
Supposed I've already installed apache-1.3.14 using ports
and I'd like to upgrade to apache-1.3.19 also using ports
how could I do that? 

Thanks for any helps



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Tue Mar  6 18:18: 0 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from hotmail.com (f100.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.100])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 812C237B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org>; Tue,  6 Mar 2001 18:17:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from stmfnman@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:17:58 -0800
Received: from 24.92.79.224 by lw3fd.law3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;	Wed, 07 Mar 2001 02:17:57 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [24.92.79.224]
From: "Super Saijin" <stmfnman@hotmail.com>
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org
Subject: About Unix
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 20:17:57 -0600
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <F100947FR7mOuf0fLCB0000141e@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2001 02:17:58.0208 (UTC) FILETIME=[D3A9CC00:01C0A6AC]
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Ok, I just read a million tutorials. I feel very VERY stupid now. What is 
Unix. (A newb explenation please). How do I run unix? Is FreeBSD entirely 
Unix? what makes it Unix? How does Unix work? what is a kernel? what is a 
shell? Please please please do not send me to a tutorial page. I would like 
support from someone not pre fabricated hoopla. Thank you for your time.


                               Sincerely,
                               Feels Like An Idiot
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Tue Mar  6 20: 5:43 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA8D37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Tue,  6 Mar 2001 20:05:40 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from cschindl@wam.umd.edu)
Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (IDENT:root@rac1.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.141])
	by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11011;
	Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:05:38 -0500 (EST)
Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (IDENT:sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA26907;
	Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:05:37 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost (cschindl@localhost)
	by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26903;
	Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:05:37 -0500 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: rac1.wam.umd.edu: cschindl owned process doing -bs
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:05:37 -0500 (EST)
From: cache money <cschindl@wam.umd.edu>
To: Super Saijin <stmfnman@hotmail.com>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
In-Reply-To: <F100947FR7mOuf0fLCB0000141e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0103062258360.24085-100000@rac1.wam.umd.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

hey there don't feel so down.  UNIX is an operating system that was
developed by Bell Labs back in the day. As time went on more and more
features and software were added to it like the  x-window.  Today UNIX has
evolved in FreeBSD
which uses the original System V shell, Solaris, Linux, and a few other
flavors.  Enough with the history lesson. With UNIX u can program
,network, sendmail, set up firewalls, and much more.  u can run UNIX
through telnet, like i am doing right now, or install one of the UNIX
flavors on your computer.  a few good books are
unix in a nutshell and unix power tools from o'reilly.  hope this helps.

----------
cache_money
news for FreeBSD, stuff that really matters  

On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Super Saijin wrote:

> Ok, I just read a million tutorials. I feel very VERY stupid now. What is 
> Unix. (A newb explenation please). How do I run unix? Is FreeBSD entirely 
> Unix? what makes it Unix? How does Unix work? what is a kernel? what is a 
> shell? Please please please do not send me to a tutorial page. I would like 
> support from someone not pre fabricated hoopla. Thank you for your time.
> 
> 
>                                Sincerely,
>                                Feels Like An Idiot
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
> 


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Tue Mar  6 22:14:27 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from p1.cs.ohiou.edu (p1.cs.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.11])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C7C37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Tue,  6 Mar 2001 22:14:24 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from frussell@p1.cs.ohiou.edu)
Received: from localhost (frussell@localhost)
	by p1.cs.ohiou.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA01709;
	Wed, 7 Mar 2001 01:14:19 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 01:14:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Russell Francis <frussell@p1.cs.ohiou.edu>
X-Sender: frussell@p1
To: Super Saijin <stmfnman@hotmail.com>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
In-Reply-To: <F100947FR7mOuf0fLCB0000141e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010307005123.578A-100000@p1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


> Ok, I just read a million tutorials. I feel very VERY stupid now.
Don't, you knew enough to come to the right place for your questions.

> What is  Unix. (A newb explenation please).
I like to think of Unix as a family of operating systems that all have 
a similar feel and philosophy behind the way that certain tasks are done.
Within that family there are several flavors.  Some of the more popular
ones being Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris.  To get a feel for how many different 
flavors there are of Unix look at
	http://www.ugu.com/sui/ugu/show?ugu
and click on "Unix Flavors"

> How do I run unix? 
Pick a flavor, Linux is probably the best choice for someone who is very
unfamiliar with Unix systems.  Get an installation CD and put it in your 
drive and away you go, Just like installing Windows ;-)
 
>Is FreeBSD entirely > Unix? what makes it Unix? 
>How does Unix work?
Extremely well!

>what is a kernel?
A kernel is the guts of an Operating System it is responsible for
interacting with hardware and other really cool low-level stuff.

> what is a > shell?
A shell is the Unix equivalent to a DOS prompt, but a hell of alot more
powerful.  If you are not familiar with DOS, it is place where commands 
are entered to run programs or list files

Hope this was helpful and feel free to write back with anymore questions
	-Russ


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7  0: 5:26 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.128])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE1EA37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 00:05:21 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from vcardona@home.com)
Received: from marx.marvic.chum ([24.17.229.11])
          by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com
          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP
          id <20010307080519.GQFV12888.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@marx.marvic.chum>
          for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:05:19 -0800
Received: (from vcardona@localhost)
	by marx.marvic.chum (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f2786ID27073
	for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 02:06:18 -0600
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 02:06:18 -0600
From: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
Message-ID: <20010307020618.A27029@marx.marvic.chum>
Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
References: <F100947FR7mOuf0fLCB0000141e@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
In-Reply-To: <F100947FR7mOuf0fLCB0000141e@hotmail.com>; from stmfnman@hotmail.com on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 08:17:57PM -0600
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 08:17:57PM -0600, Super Saijin wrote:
> Ok, I just read a million tutorials. I feel very VERY stupid now. What is 
> Unix. (A newb explenation please). How do I run unix? Is FreeBSD entirely 
> Unix? what makes it Unix? How does Unix work? what is a kernel? what is a 
> shell? Please please please do not send me to a tutorial page. I would like 
> support from someone not pre fabricated hoopla. Thank you for your time.

UNIX is an operating system.

You can run UNIX by installing a version of UNIX on your computer.

FreeBSD is a variant of UNIX.

It is a UNIX variant, because of its history, and its design. It traces
its lineage back to the original UNIX code base

It works just like any other operating system. It works better than
some. 

A kernel is the heart of an operating system. It handles the hardware on
a computer.

A shell is an interface to the operating system. It provides certain
commands and scripting capabilities.

 - v
-- 
Victor R. Cardona
vcardona@home.com

                "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon 
                  code warrior that ever lived!"


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7  5:34:18 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from george.he.net (george.he.net [216.218.157.2])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 573DD37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 05:34:15 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bill@wiliweld.com)
Received: from corten8.wiliweld.com (adsl-63-193-247-201.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.247.201]) by george.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with ESMTP id FAA01181; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:34:07 -0800
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:31:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Schoolcraft <bill@wiliweld.com>
X-Sender:  <bill@corten8>
To: Russell Francis <frussell@p1.cs.ohiou.edu>
Cc: Super Saijin <stmfnman@hotmail.com>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: About Unix
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010307005123.578A-100000@p1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.30.0103070508100.7453-100000@corten8>
System-ID: [en] (I; SunOS 5.8 i86pc)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

At Wed, 7 Mar 2001 it looks like Russell Francis composed:

frusse->Within that family there are several flavors.  Some of the more popular
frusse->ones being Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris.  To get a feel for how many different
frusse->flavors there are of Unix look at
frusse->	http://www.ugu.com/sui/ugu/show?ugu
frusse->and click on "Unix Flavors"
frusse->
frusse->> How do I run unix?

............ It's good your asking these questions for I got "stuck"
on Linux for two years before I realized the rest of the Unix world
does not call their devices the same names as linux does, hence I
realized *THEN* that it pays to at realize such. You may call your
car

/dev/auto

and FreeBSD may call the exact same car

/dev/vehicle

and Solaris may call it

/dev/transport

The main thing to remember it that the Unix distro's are all making
reference to the "SAME HARD DRIVE !!!"

Here are some real examples of disk drives

LINUX =   /dev/hda1 (my first partition on IDE drive)

FreeBSD = /dev/ad0s4a (my first partition on IDE drive)

Solaris-8
(Intel)   /dev/dsk/c0d0s0 (my first partition on IDE drive)

HP-UX =  /dev/vg00/lvol1 (pulled this from CCSF in San Francisco)


The same goes for ethernet connections also;

LINUX = eth0

FreeBSD = ep0

Solairs-8
(Intel) = iprb0

HP-UX = lan1 (?)


--
Bill Schoolcraft
PO Box 210076                 -o)
San Francisco CA 94121         /\
"UNIX, A Way Of Life."        _\_v
http://forwardslashunix.com



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7  5:39:13 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E98FC37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 05:39:08 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from Charles.S.Libby@motorola.com)
Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id GAA23060 for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 06:39:08 -0700 (MST)]
Received: [from il33exm02.wes.mot.com (il33exm02.wes.mot.com [154.56.3.102]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-mothost 2.0) with ESMTP id GAA23228 for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 06:39:08 -0700 (MST)]
Received: by il33exm02.wes.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58)
	id <165LQYLR>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:39:07 -0600
Message-ID: <AD31C7ED267AD411B55500D0B781E33DF9C298@il33exm02.wes.mot.com>
From: Libby Charles-CCL044 <Charles.S.Libby@motorola.com>
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: "'Bill Schoolcraft'" <bill@wiliweld.com>
Subject: RE: About Unix
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:39:06 -0600 
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58)
Content-Type: text/plain
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Sun Solaris 2.6 on a Sun Ultra 2, Ultra 60, Enterprise 3000, or Enterprise 3500 all call it eth0 as well.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schoolcraft [mailto:bill@wiliweld.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 1:32 PM
To: Russell Francis
Cc: Super Saijin; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix


At Wed, 7 Mar 2001 it looks like Russell Francis composed:

frusse->Within that family there are several flavors.  Some of the more popular
frusse->ones being Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris.  To get a feel for how many different
frusse->flavors there are of Unix look at
frusse->	http://www.ugu.com/sui/ugu/show?ugu
frusse->and click on "Unix Flavors"
frusse->
frusse->> How do I run unix?

............ It's good your asking these questions for I got "stuck"
on Linux for two years before I realized the rest of the Unix world
does not call their devices the same names as linux does, hence I
realized *THEN* that it pays to at realize such. You may call your
car

/dev/auto

and FreeBSD may call the exact same car

/dev/vehicle

and Solaris may call it

/dev/transport

The main thing to remember it that the Unix distro's are all making
reference to the "SAME HARD DRIVE !!!"

Here are some real examples of disk drives

LINUX =   /dev/hda1 (my first partition on IDE drive)

FreeBSD = /dev/ad0s4a (my first partition on IDE drive)

Solaris-8
(Intel)   /dev/dsk/c0d0s0 (my first partition on IDE drive)

HP-UX =  /dev/vg00/lvol1 (pulled this from CCSF in San Francisco)


The same goes for ethernet connections also;

LINUX = eth0

FreeBSD = ep0

Solairs-8
(Intel) = iprb0

HP-UX = lan1 (?)


--
Bill Schoolcraft
PO Box 210076                 -o)
San Francisco CA 94121         /\
"UNIX, A Way Of Life."        _\_v
http://forwardslashunix.com



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7  6:19:45 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mail.okb.lv (mail.okb.lv [195.114.34.131])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A71037B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 06:19:39 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from monster@okb.lv)
Received: from krypt.okb.lv ([58.2.2.40])
	by mail.okb.lv with esmtp MTA
	id 14aeqG-0008PU-00 
	for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:23:04 +0200
Received: from monster by krypt.okb.lv with local (Exim 3.22 #1)
	id 14aeYF-0000H6-00 
	for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.Org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:04:27 +0200
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:04:27 +0200
From: "Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.Org
Subject: FreeBSD as a workstation
Message-ID: <20010307160427.A1042@okb.lv>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
Organisation: A/S Ogres KomercBanka, Riga, Latvia
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Hello FreeBSD!

I'm wondering about setting my desktop PC into workstation
powered by FreeBSD. Before BSD i had Linux, and the only one
problem exist due to which i can't migrate. 
I had framebuffered console under Linux, my video adapter is
ATI Mach64 (vesa compliant, which can give me 1024x768 svga
console)
I want to have such a big SVGA console on FreeBSD also, I tried
vidcontrol with custom compiled kernel which support vesa modes 
to set the VESA modes like VESA_800x600 and VESA_1024x768 and no result :(. 
The error message i have is " Operation is not supported by device". 
I'm running 4.2-RELEASE. Maybe someone can help me with my problem.

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Just GNU it.

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7  7:11:48 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from slave2.aa.net (slave2.aa.net [204.157.220.251])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7A5E37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org>; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 07:11:45 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from Meph@Aeon-AL.Com)
Received: from Ra-Hoor.Aeon-AL.Com (host48.207-55-126.aadsl.com [207.55.126.48])
	by slave2.aa.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20916
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:11:45 -0800
X-Intended-For: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org>
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:13:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Meph Istopheles <Meph@Aeon-AL.Com>
Reply-To: Meph Istopheles <Meph@Aeon-AL.Com>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0103070712530.23739-100000@Ra-Hoor.Aeon-AL.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

subscribe freebsd-newbies


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7 11: 5:50 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D69937B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 11:05:47 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com)
Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com
          (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54)  with ESMTP id AAA1711;
          Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:10:35 -0800
Message-ID: <3AA68685.C4C290AA@acuson.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 11:05:41 -0800
From: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Organization: Acuson
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Russell Francis <frussell@p1.cs.ohiou.edu>
Cc: Super Saijin <stmfnman@hotmail.com>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010307005123.578A-100000@p1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Russell Francis wrote:

> >what is a kernel?

> > what is a > shell?

Here's another way to put it that might help. If you're used to DOS and
Windows, and especially Windows-3.1 (a mere 6 years ago), the following
correspondences can be made:

kernel = msdos.sys
shell = command.com
gui = windows

Even under Windows9x, those elements are still there.

Under the typical Unix, the elements look like:

kernel = vmlinuz (Linux), genunix (Solaris), kernel (FreeBSD), etc.
shell = sh, csh, tcsh, bash, ksh (tcsh and bash are the most popular)
gui = X11R6 + window manager + optional desktop

As you can see, the Unix world gives you many more options than the
DOS/Windows world. Not only do you get to choose your shell and gui
elements, you can also customize your kernel. If you're a pessimist it
will sound like you get your choice of ropes to hang yourself with. If
you're an optimist it will be more like a candy store with something new
and tasty every minute. 

David

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7 11:14:52 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [64.46.248.11])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 699EB37B718; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 11:14:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from Joe.Warner@smed.com)
Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (zorya.smed.com [64.46.248.1])
	by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 7EA671631D; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 14:14:45 -0500 (EST)
Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114])
	by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04897;
	Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:14:46 -0500
From: Joe.Warner@smed.com
Received: from uranus.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com
 (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id <B0002079045@iesa14.shrmed.com>;
 Wed, 07 Mar 2001 14:14:44 -0500
Subject: Re: About Unix
To: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org,
	Russell Francis <frussell@p1.cs.ohiou.edu>,
	owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org,
	Super Saijin <stmfnman@hotmail.com>
X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5  September 22, 2000
Message-Id: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:15:11 -0700
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Uranus/SMS(Release 5.0.6a |January 17, 2001) at 03/07/2001
 02:14:44 PM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


>If you're an optimist it will be
>more like a candy store with something new
>and tasty every minute.

..hence the term "flavors" of UNIX/Linux.

Some are better tasting than others.


Cheers

Joe






                                                                                                      
                    David Johnson                                                                     
                    <djohnson@acuson.com>          To:     Russell Francis <frussell@p1.cs.ohiou.edu> 
                    Sent by:                       cc:     Super Saijin <stmfnman@hotmail.com>,       
                    owner-freebsd-newbies@F        freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG                        
                    reeBSD.ORG                     Subject:     Re: About Unix                        
                                                                                                      
                                                                                                      
                    03/07/01 12:05 PM                                                                 
                                                                                                      
                                                                                                      




Russell Francis wrote:

> >what is a kernel?

> > what is a > shell?

Here's another way to put it that might help. If you're used to DOS and
Windows, and especially Windows-3.1 (a mere 6 years ago), the following
correspondences can be made:

kernel = msdos.sys
shell = command.com
gui = windows

Even under Windows9x, those elements are still there.

Under the typical Unix, the elements look like:

kernel = vmlinuz (Linux), genunix (Solaris), kernel (FreeBSD), etc.
shell = sh, csh, tcsh, bash, ksh (tcsh and bash are the most popular)
gui = X11R6 + window manager + optional desktop

As you can see, the Unix world gives you many more options than the
DOS/Windows world. Not only do you get to choose your shell and gui
elements, you can also customize your kernel. If you're a pessimist it
will sound like you get your choice of ropes to hang yourself with. If
you're an optimist it will be more like a candy store with something new
and tasty every minute.

David

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message




To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7 17:29:30 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from smtp4.cbn.net.id (smtp4.cbn.net.id [202.158.2.54])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E6D237B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 17:29:26 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from kisanak@SDF.lonestar.org)
Received: from navajo.int.cbn.net.id (unknown [202.158.50.86])
	by smtp4.cbn.net.id (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 5B2A453670; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 08:29:18 +0700 (JAVT)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:32:55 +0700 (JAVT)
From: kisanak@cbn.net.id
X-Sender: yahya@navajo.int.cbn.net.id
To: Jonathan MAIM <jonathan.maim@urbanet.ch>,
	freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Upgrade packages from ports
In-Reply-To: <004b01c0a761$6a394ba0$03cacac3@jack>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0103080825510.15826-100000@navajo.int.cbn.net.id>
Organization: PT. Cyberindo Aditama
X-Mailer: Pine 4.21 (FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Hello, 
I haven't receive any answer yet but finally I found an answer from
FreeBSD Handbook http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/cvsup.html

1. Install /usr/ports/net/cvsup-bin/
2. Edit /usr/share/examples/cvsup/ports-supfile
   (I just need to upgrade ports-www)

*default host=cvsup.uk.FreeBSD.org
*default base=/usr
*default prefix=/usr
*default release=cvs tag=.
*default delete use-rel-suffix       
#ports-all     
ports-www      

3. cvsup /usr/share/examples/cvsup/ports-supfile (gui) or
   cvsup -g -L 2 /usr/share/examples/cvsup/ports-supfile (cli)
4. Go to /usr/ports/www/apache13
5. make clean
6. make ; make reinstall

regards,
Kisanak.

On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Jonathan MAIM wrote:

JM > Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:50:39 -0000
JM > From: Jonathan MAIM <jonathan.maim@urbanet.ch>
JM > To: kisanak@cbn.net.id
JM > Subject: Re: Upgrade packages from ports
JM > 
JM > Hi !
JM > 
JM > I have the same question, if you have received an answer,
JM > can you please forward it to me ?
JM > 
JM > Thank you very much.
JM > 
JM > Jonathan
JM > 
JM > 
JM > ----- Original Message ----- 
JM > From: <kisanak@cbn.net.id>
JM > To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
JM > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 2:08 AM
JM > Subject: Upgrade packages from ports
JM > 
JM > 
JM > > Dear All,
JM > > Supposed I've already installed apache-1.3.14 using ports
JM > > and I'd like to upgrade to apache-1.3.19 also using ports
JM > > how could I do that? 
JM > > 
JM > > Thanks for any helps
JM > > 
JM > > 
JM > > 
JM > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
JM > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
JM > > 


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7 20:15:45 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from srv8-bra.bra.terra.com.br (srv8-bra.bra.terra.com.br [200.246.248.84])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA7837B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 20:15:36 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from mattao@zaz.com.br)
Received: from srv7-bra.bra.terra.com.br (srv7-bra.bra.terra.com.br [200.246.248.83])
	by srv8-bra.bra.terra.com.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19332
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:15:27 -0300
Received: from fe88j (dl-tnt2-C8B10A02.bsb.terra.com.br [200.177.10.2])
	(authenticated user mattao)
	by srv7-bra.bra.terra.com.br (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f284FQp23431
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:15:26 -0300
Message-ID: <009601c0a786$461966e0$020ab1c8@fe88j>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Luciano_Moreira_Matt=E3o?= <mattao@zaz.com.br>
To: "FreeBSD" <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Installing ports from a CDROM
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:14:25 -0300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0093_01C0A76D.1DB74DC0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0093_01C0A76D.1DB74DC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

I installed FreeBSD 4.1 onto my computer. I have problems with ports =
collection. When I change to the directory where the port I want to =
install live (for example /usr/ports/print/ghostscript6), and I type =
make install (with FreeBSD's CD mounted on /cdrom), FreeBSD try search =
the necessary files in the internet and some errors occurs, because I =
don't have connection with internet in this computer. Somebody knows, =
what should I do to install applications form FreeBSD's CD?=20

Thanks,

Luciano



------=_NextPart_000_0093_01C0A76D.1DB74DC0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>I installed=20
FreeBSD 4.1 onto my&nbsp;c</FONT>omputer.&nbsp;I have problems with =
ports=20
collection. When&nbsp;I change to the directory where the port&nbsp;I =
want to=20
install live (for example /usr/ports/print/ghostscript6), and&nbsp;I =
type make=20
install (with FreeBSD's CD mounted on /cdrom), FreeBSD try search the =
necessary=20
files in the internet&nbsp;and some errors occurs, because I don't have=20
connection&nbsp;with internet in this computer. Somebody =
knows,&nbsp;what=20
should&nbsp;I do to install&nbsp;applications form&nbsp;FreeBSD's=20
CD?&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Luciano</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0093_01C0A76D.1DB74DC0--


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7 20:21:40 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 337AB37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 20:21:30 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20429;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:20:35 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdV20427; Thu Mar  8 14:20:22 2001
Message-ID: <008301c0a787$38721cc0$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Luciano_Moreira_Matt=E3o?= <mattao@zaz.com.br>,
	"FreeBSD" <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <009601c0a786$461966e0$020ab1c8@fe88j>
Subject: Re: Installing ports from a CDROM
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:20:54 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007E_01C0A7DA.FC872BC0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C0A7DA.FC872BC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Try installing stuff using stand/sysinstall

The ports are apparently just shells & when you try to install them the =
system
pulls the necessary source from somewhere like ftp://ftp.freebsd.org
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Luciano Moreira Matt=E3o=20
  To: FreeBSD=20
  Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 2:14 PM
  Subject: Installing ports from a CDROM


  Hi,

  I installed FreeBSD 4.1 onto my computer. I have problems with ports =
collection. When I change to the directory where the port I want to =
install live (for example /usr/ports/print/ghostscript6), and I type =
make install (with FreeBSD's CD mounted on /cdrom), FreeBSD try search =
the necessary files in the internet and some errors occurs, because I =
don't have connection with internet in this computer. Somebody knows, =
what should I do to install applications form FreeBSD's CD?=20

  Thanks,

  Luciano



------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C0A7DA.FC872BC0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Try installing stuff using=20
stand/sysinstall</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The ports are apparently just shells =
&amp; when you=20
try to install them the system</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>pulls the necessary source from =
somewhere like <A=20
href=3D"ftp://ftp.freebsd.org">ftp://ftp.freebsd.org</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmattao@zaz.com.br href=3D"mailto:mattao@zaz.com.br">Luciano =
Moreira=20
  Matt=E3o</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dfreebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG=20
  href=3D"mailto:freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG">FreeBSD</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 08, 2001 =
2:14=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Installing ports from =
a=20
  CDROM</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>I installed=20
  FreeBSD 4.1 onto my&nbsp;c</FONT>omputer.&nbsp;I have problems with =
ports=20
  collection. When&nbsp;I change to the directory where the port&nbsp;I =
want to=20
  install live (for example /usr/ports/print/ghostscript6), and&nbsp;I =
type make=20
  install (with FreeBSD's CD mounted on /cdrom), FreeBSD try search the=20
  necessary files in the internet&nbsp;and some errors occurs, because I =
don't=20
  have connection&nbsp;with internet in this computer. Somebody =
knows,&nbsp;what=20
  should&nbsp;I do to install&nbsp;applications form&nbsp;FreeBSD's=20
  CD?&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Luciano</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C0A7DA.FC872BC0--


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7 21:27:45 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from r55h47.res.gatech.edu (r55h47.res.gatech.edu [128.61.55.47])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id DF13137B718; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 21:27:42 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jlee@r55h47.res.gatech.edu)
Received: (from jlee@localhost)
	by r55h47.res.gatech.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f285PCj00565;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 00:25:12 -0500 (EST)
	(envelope-from jlee)
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="iso-8859-1"
From: "Jeffrey J. Lee" <dibble@cc.gatech.edu>
Reply-To: dibble@cc.gatech.edu
Organization: Georgia Tech
To: Joe.Warner@smed.com, David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 00:25:11 -0500
X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2]
Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org,
	Russell Francis <frussell@p1.cs.ohiou.edu>,
	owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org,
	Super Saijin <stmfnman@hotmail.com>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com>
In-Reply-To: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

I still hate the idea of grouping Linux with Unix operating systems.  But, 
I'm probably just bitter.

--jeff lee

On Wednesday 07 March 2001 14:15, Joe.Warner@smed.com wrote:
> >If you're an optimist it will be
> >more like a candy store with something new
> >and tasty every minute.
>
> ..hence the term "flavors" of UNIX/Linux.
>
> Some are better tasting than others.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Joe
>

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7 21:52:51 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 984B037B719; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 21:52:46 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20559;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:52:14 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdV20557; Thu Mar  8 15:52:09 2001
Message-ID: <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: <dibble@cc.gatech.edu>, <Joe.Warner@smed.com>,
	"David Johnson" <djohnson@acuson.com>
Cc: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>,
	"Russell Francis" <frussell@p1.cs.ohiou.edu>,
	<owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>,
	"Super Saijin" <stmfnman@hotmail.com>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:52:57 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Hear hear !!!! ..... no way that stuff will get onto any of my systems :)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey J. Lee" <dibble@cc.gatech.edu>
To: <Joe.Warner@smed.com>; "David Johnson" <djohnson@acuson.com>
Cc: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; "Russell Francis"
<frussell@p1.cs.ohiou.edu>; <owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; "Super
Saijin" <stmfnman@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: About Unix


> I still hate the idea of grouping Linux with Unix operating systems.  But,
> I'm probably just bitter.
>
> --jeff lee
>
> On Wednesday 07 March 2001 14:15, Joe.Warner@smed.com wrote:
> > >If you're an optimist it will be
> > >more like a candy store with something new
> > >and tasty every minute.
> >
> > ..hence the term "flavors" of UNIX/Linux.
> >
> > Some are better tasting than others.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Joe
> >
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar  7 23:51:32 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.128])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8819C37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 23:51:30 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from vcardona@home.com)
Received: from marx.marvic.chum ([24.17.229.11])
          by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com
          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP
          id <20010308075130.YGIY12888.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@marx.marvic.chum>
          for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:51:30 -0800
Received: (from vcardona@localhost)
	by marx.marvic.chum (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f287qcU06734
	for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:52:38 -0600
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:52:38 -0600
From: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
Message-ID: <20010308015238.A6647@marx.marvic.chum>
Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
In-Reply-To: <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au>; from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 03:52:57PM +1000
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 03:52:57PM +1000, Doug Young wrote:
> Hear hear !!!! ..... no way that stuff will get onto any of my systems :)

Well think of it this way, and perhaps it will make it more palatable.

A couple of years ago, the average user thought that Microsoft was the
epitome of computing. There were no visible alternatives, so they just
kept using what they had always used, Windows. All of a sudden, this
UNIX clone called Linux, starts to become popular. People see that it
isn't that bad. They play with Linux, learn to like it, want more, and
eventualy move on to BSD based systems. 

Of course, if you don't care for new users...

 - v
-- 
Victor R. Cardona
vcardona@home.com

                "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon 
                  code warrior that ever lived!"


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  0: 2:36 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8852B37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 00:02:31 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20735;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:02:24 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdX20733; Thu Mar  8 18:02:17 2001
Message-ID: <01b401c0a7a6$3927e720$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308015238.A6647@marx.marvic.chum>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:03:10 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

If the experience of many people with linux is like mine I wouldn't count on
any significant migration from linux to FreeBSD. After a bad year struggling
with the disgusting linux documentation, the often totally bigoted faithful
who
face California several times a day to chant "Our Linus, Who art in CA
...."
and who swear William of Redmond is the Antichrist, the need to do a full
reinstall after a power failure, & new kernels every other day, I was just
about
to return to unstable & simple minded Windows systems. Stumbling across
FreeBSD was more accident than anything else ...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: About Unix


> On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 03:52:57PM +1000, Doug Young wrote:
> > Hear hear !!!! ..... no way that stuff will get onto any of my systems
:)
>
> Well think of it this way, and perhaps it will make it more palatable.
>
> A couple of years ago, the average user thought that Microsoft was the
> epitome of computing. There were no visible alternatives, so they just
> kept using what they had always used, Windows. All of a sudden, this
> UNIX clone called Linux, starts to become popular. People see that it
> isn't that bad. They play with Linux, learn to like it, want more, and
> eventualy move on to BSD based systems.
>
> Of course, if you don't care for new users...
>
>  - v
> --
> Victor R. Cardona
> vcardona@home.com
>
>                 "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon
>                   code warrior that ever lived!"
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  0:48:52 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.115])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E184F37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 00:48:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from educatee2001@yahoo.com)
Received: from co3018900-a.belrs1.nsw.optushome.com.au (HELO co3018900a) (203.164.78.30)
  by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 08:48:49 -0000
X-Apparently-From: <educatee2001@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001901c0a7ac$a975b150$1e4ea4cb@co3018900a>
From: "Educatee" <educatee2001@yahoo.com>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:  I could ping IP, but can't ping hostname. pls assist
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:49:16 +1100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

I am new to BSD world. After trying for a few week I have configure
FreeBSD4.1 in my machine. Just one question..

I have entered the network information and check that the information is in:

rc.conf
-------
ifconfig_lnc0="inet 202.164.78.31 netmask 255.255.255.128"
hostname="co3018910-a.myhome.com"
defaultrouter="202.164.78.1"

resolv.conf
-----------
domain myhome.com.au
nameserver 202.164.20.11

hosts
-----
127.0.0.1   localhost.myhome.com localhost
202.164.78.31 co3018910-a.myhome.com co3018910-a
202.164.78.31 co3018900-a.myhome.com.



however, I could ping anyother host, but can't ping their DNS name. I reckon
it's a DNS problem. But wherelse could I check and fix this problem? Thanks
for advice.








_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  1:15:30 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.145])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ABA337B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 01:15:27 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from vcardona@home.com)
Received: from marx.marvic.chum ([24.17.229.11])
          by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com
          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP
          id <20010308091527.GKDB811.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@marx.marvic.chum>;
          Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:15:27 -0800
Received: (from vcardona@localhost)
	by marx.marvic.chum (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f289GZw07206;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 03:16:35 -0600
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 03:16:35 -0600
From: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>,
	freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
Message-ID: <20010308031635.A7166@marx.marvic.chum>
Mail-Followup-To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>,
	"Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308015238.A6647@marx.marvic.chum> <01b401c0a7a6$3927e720$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
In-Reply-To: <01b401c0a7a6$3927e720$847e03cb@apana.org.au>; from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 06:03:10PM +1000
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 06:03:10PM +1000, Doug Young wrote:
> If the experience of many people with linux is like mine I wouldn't count on
> any significant migration from linux to FreeBSD. After a bad year struggling
> with the disgusting linux documentation, the often totally bigoted faithful
> who
> face California several times a day to chant "Our Linus, Who art in CA
> ...."
> and who swear William of Redmond is the Antichrist, the need to do a full
> reinstall after a power failure, & new kernels every other day, I was just
> about
> to return to unstable & simple minded Windows systems. Stumbling across
> FreeBSD was more accident than anything else ...

That is the complete opposite of my experience. I started with Linux a
couple of years ago, and have since started using FreeBSD. Of course, I
don't share the negative opinion of Linux that you seem to have.

Point is, if it hadn't been for Linux, I would probably not have
discovered FreeBSD.

 - v
-- 
Victor R. Cardona
vcardona@home.com

                "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon 
                  code warrior that ever lived!"


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  1:24:25 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC7B37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 01:24:19 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20804;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:24:10 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdl20802; Thu Mar  8 19:24:06 2001
Message-ID: <01eb01c0a7b1$a6d4fc80$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
Cc: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308015238.A6647@marx.marvic.chum> <01b401c0a7a6$3927e720$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308031635
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:24:56 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Probably the most negative experience I've had with linux was on a local
mailing list belong
"HUMBUG".  The inhabitants there are generally so fanatic that any non-linux
user stumbling
into the group has to either swear undying allegiance to Linus or be forever
damned :)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>; <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: About Unix


> On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 06:03:10PM +1000, Doug Young wrote:
> > If the experience of many people with linux is like mine I wouldn't
count on
> > any significant migration from linux to FreeBSD. After a bad year
struggling
> > with the disgusting linux documentation, the often totally bigoted
faithful
> > who
> > face California several times a day to chant "Our Linus, Who art in CA
> > ...."
> > and who swear William of Redmond is the Antichrist, the need to do a
full
> > reinstall after a power failure, & new kernels every other day, I was
just
> > about
> > to return to unstable & simple minded Windows systems. Stumbling across
> > FreeBSD was more accident than anything else ...
>
> That is the complete opposite of my experience. I started with Linux a
> couple of years ago, and have since started using FreeBSD. Of course, I
> don't share the negative opinion of Linux that you seem to have.
>
> Point is, if it hadn't been for Linux, I would probably not have
> discovered FreeBSD.
>
>  - v
> --
> Victor R. Cardona
> vcardona@home.com
>
>                 "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon
>                   code warrior that ever lived!"
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  2:11:38 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from Mail.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE (mail.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.1.48])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 364AA37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 02:11:25 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de)
Received: by Mail.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE (Smail3.2.0.98)
	  from [130.133.197.137] (130.133.197.137) with esmtp
	  id <m14axO8-00OCgMC>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:11:16 +0100 (MET)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:11:16 +0100 (MET)
X-Sender: uzs106@mailin.uni-bonn.de
Message-Id: <l03102801b6cd183ab830@[130.133.197.137]>
In-Reply-To: <20010308031635.A7166@marx.marvic.chum>
References: <01b401c0a7a6$3927e720$847e03cb@apana.org.au>; from
 dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 06:03:10PM +1000
 <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com>
 <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu>
 <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
 <20010308015238.A6647@marx.marvic.chum>
 <01b401c0a7a6$3927e720$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>,
	Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
From: Heiko Recktenwald <uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Cc: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>,
	freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

At 3:16 Uhr -0600 08.03.2001, Victor R. Cardona wrote:
>Point is, if it hadn't been for Linux, I would probably not have
>discovered FreeBSD.

Well, Linux vs. FreeBSD. I dont have much experiences with Linux. I
installed some readhat some days ago, with KDE etc, on FBSD I have just
twm. IMHO FBSD is much easier for a primitiv mind like mine.
What convinced me that FBSD is "better" was PicoBSD. Maybe there are better
one floppy Linux systems than what I tried, but PicoBSD was a real thing.

My first Unix was Minix on a 1 or 2 MB partition on a 286...20MB harddrive.
And a floppy on a XT. Just to get the look and feel of Unix.



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  2:18: 1 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D1AB37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 02:17:57 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20847;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:17:44 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdU20845; Thu Mar  8 20:17:39 2001
Message-ID: <021301c0a7b9$228984c0$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>,
	"Heiko Recktenwald" <uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Cc: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <01b401c0a7a6$3927e720$847e03cb@apana.org.au>; from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 06:03:10PM +1000 <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:18:31 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

> Well, Linux vs. FreeBSD. I dont have much experiences with Linux. I
> installed some readhat some days ago, with KDE etc, on FBSD I have just
> twm. IMHO FBSD is much easier for a primitiv mind like mine.

No disagreement there .... at least some of the FreeBSD documentation is
intelligible

> What convinced me that FBSD is "better" was PicoBSD. Maybe there are
better
> one floppy Linux systems than what I tried, but PicoBSD was a real thing.

Its a vast improvement on that linuxrouter disaster :)
>
> My first Unix was Minix on a 1 or 2 MB partition on a 286...20MB
harddrive.
> And a floppy on a XT. Just to get the look and feel of Unix.

I was looking for a copy of Minix some time back .... don't suppose you
still have the
original floppies or copies thereof ??



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  2:52:21 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from audrey.enst-bretagne.fr (audrey.enst-bretagne.fr [192.108.115.9])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77CE237B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 02:52:18 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jeho5791@student.uu.se)
Received: from resel.enst-bretagne.fr (root@maisel-gw.enst-bretagne.fr [192.44.76.8])
	by audrey.enst-bretagne.fr (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f28AqGl31271
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:52:16 +0100
Received: from strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr (strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr [172.16.19.83])
	by resel.enst-bretagne.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id LAA31993
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:52:16 +0100
Received: by strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:56:40 +0100
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:56:40 +0100
From: Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: About Unix
Message-ID: <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
In-Reply-To: <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu>; from dibble@cc.gatech.edu on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 12:25:11AM -0500
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


Let me take the opportunity to jump into this Linux-bashing thread,
and ask a related question.

I am a long time Linux user who have for quite a while been aware of
the *BSDs, planning to try it out. Since a couple of weeks, I've
had FreeBSD installed on an extra machine.

No bad experiences so far. A lot of reading had to be done, but that
was expected. But to sum up my experience somewhat naively, I would
say: this is like Linux, just a lot of small differences.

So my question to you would be: can you tell my just why I should hang
in there? Why do you prefer FreeBSD? What will I discover if I stay
that is not obvious at first sight?

I know this could be regarded as flame-bait, but since this
Linux-bashing was already started, I was thinking I could perhaps jump
in and ask that the discussion be steered towards some information for
us FreeBSD-newbies.

Best,

Jesper

-- 
                            "But how can one be warm alone?"

Jesper Holmberg			        jeho5791@student.uu.se

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  3: 7:19 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B098F37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 03:07:13 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA20886;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:06:58 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdP20884; Thu Mar  8 21:06:52 2001
Message-ID: <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:07:45 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Try the following on both a linux & a BSD system

setup two identical systems,one with linux & other with BSD

give them both a few jobs to do, then hit the "reset" button 
(you do have power failures in Sweden don't you ??)

invariably the BSD system will recover with no damage but
the linux one will need a total re-install

We did have exclusively linux in our servers but since the changeover to 
FreeBSD the uptimes have increased to the point where machines
generally keep going constantly from one upgrade til the next ... usually
a year or so later. The Redhat / Slackware / Debian systems rarely went
for a month before something or other broke. We do have the odd Win2000
Server system (required for certain software applications) & their uptime
is generally superior to linux ..... no comparison with BSD though.

 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: About Unix


> 
> Let me take the opportunity to jump into this Linux-bashing thread,
> and ask a related question.
> 
> I am a long time Linux user who have for quite a while been aware of
> the *BSDs, planning to try it out. Since a couple of weeks, I've
> had FreeBSD installed on an extra machine.
> 
> No bad experiences so far. A lot of reading had to be done, but that
> was expected. But to sum up my experience somewhat naively, I would
> say: this is like Linux, just a lot of small differences.
> 
> So my question to you would be: can you tell my just why I should hang
> in there? Why do you prefer FreeBSD? What will I discover if I stay
> that is not obvious at first sight?
> 
> I know this could be regarded as flame-bait, but since this
> Linux-bashing was already started, I was thinking I could perhaps jump
> in and ask that the discussion be steered towards some information for
> us FreeBSD-newbies.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jesper
> 
> -- 
>                             "But how can one be warm alone?"
> 
> Jesper Holmberg         jeho5791@student.uu.se
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
> 


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  3:27:28 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mail.okb.lv (mail.okb.lv [195.114.34.131])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC4B37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 03:27:24 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from monster@okb.lv)
Received: from krypt.okb.lv ([58.2.2.40])
	by mail.okb.lv with esmtp MTA
	id 14ayd5-0000u4-00 
	for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:30:47 +0200
Received: from monster by krypt.okb.lv with local (Exim 3.22 #1)
	id 14ayL0-0000Gr-00 
	for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:12:06 +0200
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:12:05 +0200
From: "Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: About Unix
Message-ID: <20010308131205.A1029@okb.lv>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
In-Reply-To: <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au>; from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 09:07:45PM +1000
Organisation: A/S Ogres KomercBanka, Riga, Latvia
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 09:07:45PM +1000, Doug Young wrote:
dougy> Try the following on both a linux & a BSD system
dougy> 
dougy> setup two identical systems,one with linux & other with BSD
dougy> 
dougy> give them both a few jobs to do, then hit the "reset" button 
dougy> (you do have power failures in Sweden don't you ??)
dougy> 
dougy> invariably the BSD system will recover with no damage but
dougy> the linux one will need a total re-install
dougy> 
dougy> We did have exclusively linux in our servers but since the changeover to 
dougy> FreeBSD the uptimes have increased to the point where machines
dougy> generally keep going constantly from one upgrade til the next ... usually
dougy> a year or so later. The Redhat / Slackware / Debian systems rarely went
dougy> for a month before something or other broke. We do have the odd Win2000
dougy> Server system (required for certain software applications) & their uptime
dougy> is generally superior to linux ..... no comparison with BSD though.

I don't want to claim BSD or Linux, I must say I'm using both BSD
and Linux about 5 years. 

You're wrong about power failures: first you can switch to
ReiserFS and after power failure you wouldn't be asked to do
fsck. Journaling FS rocks, but I haven't seen any for FreeBSD.

One I must say that *BSD under heavy load are more powerfull.
-- 
Just GNU it.

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  5:13:27 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 35CF037B71A; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 05:13:21 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from rootman@xmission.com)
Received: from [166.70.9.39] (helo=blackmirror.xmission.com)
	by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 3.12 #1)
	id 14b0EJ-0001N1-00; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 06:13:20 -0700
From: Joe Warner <rootman@xmission.com>
To: dibble@cc.gatech.edu, "Jeffrey J. Lee" <dibble@cc.gatech.edu>,
	Joe.Warner@smed.com, David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 05:28:03 -0700
X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28]
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="iso-8859-1"
Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org,
	Russell Francis <frussell@p1.cs.ohiou.edu>,
	owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org,
	Super Saijin <stmfnman@hotmail.com>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu>
In-Reply-To: <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <01030806130900.00247@blackmirror.xmission.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


I wasn't trying to associate UNIX with Linux here and start a
Linux bash-fest.  I was merely trying to explain the meaning behind
the term "flavor".  I know a lot of people, myself included, refer to the
different UNIX distributions as flavors.  IMO, the term flavor seems 
appropriate for the 180+ distributions of Linux out there.

As far as the BSD vs Linux argument goes, it's an old one and
one that I personally wish would go away.  

My first exposure to UNIX-like operating systems started over two
years ago with Linux.  If it weren't for Linux, I wouldn't know "cat"
from "ls", much less the BSD's that I've grown so fond of today.

I won't go into the reasons why I moved from Linux to FreeBSD
because most of those reasons have been previously stated in
this thread and would only inspire more flamage.

Now, if you want to talk about BSD/Linux vs Windows, that's
different and I'll be happy to jump in.  I owe a lot to Linux and
the BSD's for rescuing me from the boring/closed source world
of Windows.  I love to tinker and to learn new things.  With Linux
and the BSD's, you are almost forced to understand how your
computer hardware and OS work together.  With Windows, 
everything is done for you, you can't really customize it to your
personal preference and you have to pay through the nose for any
neat app you're interested in trying, not to mention the OS itself.
It's like trying to paint creatively in a straight jacket.

Just my $ 0.15

Cheers

Joe


You know you're in trouble when your wife asks you;
"Would you like me any better if I had a square face?"

                               -me

On Wed, 07 Mar 2001, Jeffrey J. Lee wrote:
> I still hate the idea of grouping Linux with Unix operating systems.  But, 
> I'm probably just bitter.
> 
> --jeff lee
> 
> On Wednesday 07 March 2001 14:15, Joe.Warner@smed.com wrote:
> > >If you're an optimist it will be
> > >more like a candy store with something new
> > >and tasty every minute.
> >
> > ..hence the term "flavors" of UNIX/Linux.
> >
> > Some are better tasting than others.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Joe
> >
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
-- 



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  5:55:22 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from home.smithconcepts.com (ubr-35.28.151.oviedo.cfl.rr.com [65.35.28.151])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42BFB37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 05:55:18 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from lhsmith@cfl.rr.com)
Received: from cfl.rr.com (holden2.oviedo.smithconcepts.com [172.24.24.194])
	by home.smithconcepts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21267;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:49:35 -0500
Message-ID: <3AA79277.32455314@cfl.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 14:08:55 +0000
From: "Lourdes H. Smith" <lhsmith@cfl.rr.com>
Reply-To: lhsmith@cfl.rr.com
Organization: The Smith Family
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, b.j.smith@ieee.org, thebs@theseus.com,
	"Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
Subject: Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking

Lourdes' husband here --

Okay Doug, you are so full of crap, my wife came to me with
questions based on your misinformation.  That's sad.  Learn the
systems and only talk about _what_you_know_!  I rebuke your comments
below.  The key here is _technical_facts_.  Now if you want to talk
about those, come to ELUG (http://www.elug.org).  We cater to all
OSS (Open Source Software) users.

Doug Young wrote:
> Try the following on both a linux & a BSD system
> setup two identical systems,one with linux & other with BSD
> give them both a few jobs to do, then hit the "reset" button
> (you do have power failures in Sweden don't you ??)
> invariably the BSD system will recover with no damage but
> the linux one will need a total re-install

I have maintained over 100 production Linux systems over the years
(since 1995 on corporate networks).  I have never, ever had to
re-install.  Same goes for BSD (which I've used limitedly since 1995
as well).  [ Side note:  I've been an NT administrator even longer
(1992-1999), and re-installs are a fact of life (not as bad as Win9x
-- but I find NTFS will destroy itself after 2-3 years of good use
when it "assumes" a journal flush is good). ]

Now I know you are _trying_ to "stress" the fact that most Linux
distributions don't come with a "journaling filesystem", but the
default, Linux Ext2 filesystem is quite a reliable filesystem,
despite its simplicity.  In fact, of all the major UFS (UNIX
Filesystems), it fragments the least (although fragmentation on any
UFS not even close to being as bad as any Windows OS).

> We did have exclusively linux in our servers but since the changeover to
> FreeBSD the uptimes have increased to the point where machines
> generally keep going constantly from one upgrade til the next ... usually
> a year or so later. The Redhat / Slackware / Debian systems rarely went
> for a month before something or other broke. We do have the odd Win2000
> Server system (required for certain software applications) & their uptime
> is generally superior to linux ..... no comparison with BSD though.

Everyone's going to have their own comments.  My main Linux-based
Samba-NFS file server (which also does mail, CVS and everything else
under the sun) for over 50 NT, Solaris and Linux clients is running
RedHat 6.2 with kernel 2.2.16+Ext3+NFS3.  Crash recovery times are
<<5 minutes -- but I've only seen that happen once.  It stays up
forever (until stupid Florida Power goes down).

"Denis J. Cirulis" wrote:
> I don't want to claim BSD or Linux, I must say I'm using both BSD
> and Linux about 5 years.

Same boat.  No bigotry.

> You're wrong about power failures: first you can switch to
> ReiserFS and after power failure you wouldn't be asked to do
> fsck. Journaling FS rocks, but I haven't seen any for FreeBSD.

ReiserFS has issues as an NFS server.  Regardless, I have extensive
knowledge of Ext3 on *PRODUCTION* systems.  I'm also moving into
using XFS (I repackage their kernels from CVS in RPM format) since
Ext3 doesn't run on 2.4.  XFS is a pretty advanced system.

I recently did a presentation on Linux JFS options (focus on Ext3
and XFS).  You can find it here:

http://www.smithconcepts.com/files/presentations/ELUG_JFS_2001Mar05a.pdf

> One I must say that *BSD under heavy load are more powerfull.

That's the power of its mature VM and scheduler systems.  Linux is
getting there.  Linux 2.4 really improves _a_lot_.  Linus is getting
good at balancing simplicity and single-user performance against
server/multiuser performance.

-- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
   Engineering/SysAdmin, Theseus Logic, Inc.
   Contributing Author, "Samba Unleashed"
   [ Note:  One chapter was the "Samba Unleashed" appendix on BSD
;-P ]

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  6:32:58 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from p2.cs.ohiou.edu (p2.cs.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.12])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70FE637B71A
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 06:32:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from frussell@p1.cs.ohiou.edu)
Received: from localhost (frussell@localhost)
	by p2.cs.ohiou.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA07322;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:32:42 -0500 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: p2.cs.ohiou.edu: frussell owned process doing -bs
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:32:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Russell Francis <frussell@p1.cs.ohiou.edu>
X-Sender: frussell@p2
To: Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
In-Reply-To: <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010308091658.6696A-100000@p2>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


> So my question to you would be: can you tell my just why I should hang
> in there? Why do you prefer FreeBSD? What will I discover if I stay
> that is not obvious at first sight?

I recently switched from Linux to FreeBSD and must say I like it more,
although it doesn't win in every category and here is why

Things that make FreeBSD superior:
	- When upgrading on linux you must hunt around about 12-15
different sites trying to download new tools to work with the new kernel.
This is a huge pain in the ass!  esspecially for those that try to follow
kernel development.   CVSup is the best tool ever!

	- The ports collection makes tracking down the software you want
to install as easy as "make install"  I really love this. 

	- My uptime went from about a week on Linux to never crashing with
FreeBSD,  I am still amazed at how much more stable it is!

	- Documentation is more centralized and reliable

	- The people on the mailing lists are a hell of alot more sane and
level-headed, not quite as fanatical and in your face :-)


Things that I was disappointed with:
	- SMP support, I can't put my finger on it but it seemed to work
much better under Linux.

	- XMMS is known to get choppy and add pops to the song?  pops in
music when it switches songs too.  If anyone knows why this is let me
know.


	-Russ

 


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  6:46:21 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FC8037B71D
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 06:46:14 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA21077;
	Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:45:43 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdn21075; Fri Mar  9 00:45:40 2001
Message-ID: <024301c0a7de$930db020$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308131205.A1029@okb.lv>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:46:32 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


> You're wrong about power failures: first you can switch to
> ReiserFS and after power failure you wouldn't be asked to do
> fsck. Journaling FS rocks, but I haven't seen any for FreeBSD.

Our machines are located at various remote sites & typically its difficult
to get there at a moments notice.  The linux systems typically failed to
re-start automatically whereas FreeBSD ones do. The result was that
the systems stayed down for some time until someone had the time to
go fix the thing ....more often than not it was found that the linux ones
were so badly corrupted the only solution was a re-install. I'm not
aware of one instance of one of our FreeBSD systems needing re-install
after a power failure.

There is a technical basis to this stuff ..... apprently linus & his
followers
chose to adopt a different way of writing files than with "proper"unixes in
order to gain a bit more speed, whereas BSD / Solaris / SCO / HP-UX
etc considered reliability of higher significance than outright speed. This
issue has been discussed several times in the 'questions" list.



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  7:12:30 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67CE637B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 07:12:24 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21113;
	Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:12:04 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from roadrunner.apana.org.au(203.3.126.132), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdW21111; Fri Mar  9 01:11:59 2001
Message-ID: <028b01c0a7e2$3ff2d420$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: <lhsmith@cfl.rr.com>
Cc: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>, <b.j.smith@ieee.org>,
	<thebs@theseus.com>, "Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <3AA79277.32455314@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:12:51 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

My point remains .... our FreeBSD systems invariably recover after a power
failure, the previous linux ones rarely did. Given the difficulty in getting
to the remote systems thats more than sufficient justification for the move
from linux to FreeBSD. We'd never consider running any form of Windows on
remote systems ... we do have some Win2000 boxes but they are all kept close
to home where they can get a hug when needed. In comparison the FreeSD boxes
typically run for about a year before upgrade, the linux ones lasted maybe
two months at best, and the (local) Win2000 systems probably get 6 months
between re-installs.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lourdes H. Smith" <lhsmith@cfl.rr.com>
To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>;
<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; <b.j.smith@ieee.org>; <thebs@theseus.com>;
"Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking


> Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
>
> Lourdes' husband here --
>
> Okay Doug, you are so full of crap, my wife came to me with
> questions based on your misinformation.  That's sad.  Learn the
> systems and only talk about _what_you_know_!  I rebuke your comments
> below.  The key here is _technical_facts_.  Now if you want to talk
> about those, come to ELUG (http://www.elug.org).  We cater to all
> OSS (Open Source Software) users.
>
> Doug Young wrote:
> > Try the following on both a linux & a BSD system
> > setup two identical systems,one with linux & other with BSD
> > give them both a few jobs to do, then hit the "reset" button
> > (you do have power failures in Sweden don't you ??)
> > invariably the BSD system will recover with no damage but
> > the linux one will need a total re-install
>
> I have maintained over 100 production Linux systems over the years
> (since 1995 on corporate networks).  I have never, ever had to
> re-install.  Same goes for BSD (which I've used limitedly since 1995
> as well).  [ Side note:  I've been an NT administrator even longer
> (1992-1999), and re-installs are a fact of life (not as bad as Win9x
> -- but I find NTFS will destroy itself after 2-3 years of good use
> when it "assumes" a journal flush is good). ]
>
> Now I know you are _trying_ to "stress" the fact that most Linux
> distributions don't come with a "journaling filesystem", but the
> default, Linux Ext2 filesystem is quite a reliable filesystem,
> despite its simplicity.  In fact, of all the major UFS (UNIX
> Filesystems), it fragments the least (although fragmentation on any
> UFS not even close to being as bad as any Windows OS).
>
> > We did have exclusively linux in our servers but since the changeover to
> > FreeBSD the uptimes have increased to the point where machines
> > generally keep going constantly from one upgrade til the next ...
usually
> > a year or so later. The Redhat / Slackware / Debian systems rarely went
> > for a month before something or other broke. We do have the odd Win2000
> > Server system (required for certain software applications) & their
uptime
> > is generally superior to linux ..... no comparison with BSD though.
>
> Everyone's going to have their own comments.  My main Linux-based
> Samba-NFS file server (which also does mail, CVS and everything else
> under the sun) for over 50 NT, Solaris and Linux clients is running
> RedHat 6.2 with kernel 2.2.16+Ext3+NFS3.  Crash recovery times are
> <<5 minutes -- but I've only seen that happen once.  It stays up
> forever (until stupid Florida Power goes down).
>
> "Denis J. Cirulis" wrote:
> > I don't want to claim BSD or Linux, I must say I'm using both BSD
> > and Linux about 5 years.
>
> Same boat.  No bigotry.
>
> > You're wrong about power failures: first you can switch to
> > ReiserFS and after power failure you wouldn't be asked to do
> > fsck. Journaling FS rocks, but I haven't seen any for FreeBSD.
>
> ReiserFS has issues as an NFS server.  Regardless, I have extensive
> knowledge of Ext3 on *PRODUCTION* systems.  I'm also moving into
> using XFS (I repackage their kernels from CVS in RPM format) since
> Ext3 doesn't run on 2.4.  XFS is a pretty advanced system.
>
> I recently did a presentation on Linux JFS options (focus on Ext3
> and XFS).  You can find it here:
>
> http://www.smithconcepts.com/files/presentations/ELUG_JFS_2001Mar05a.pdf
>
> > One I must say that *BSD under heavy load are more powerfull.
>
> That's the power of its mature VM and scheduler systems.  Linux is
> getting there.  Linux 2.4 really improves _a_lot_.  Linus is getting
> good at balancing simplicity and single-user performance against
> server/multiuser performance.
>
> -- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
>    Engineering/SysAdmin, Theseus Logic, Inc.
>    Contributing Author, "Samba Unleashed"
>    [ Note:  One chapter was the "Samba Unleashed" appendix on BSD
> ;-P ]
>


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  7:43:38 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from george.he.net (george.he.net [216.218.157.2])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC1B37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 07:43:34 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bill@wiliweld.com)
Received: from corten8.wiliweld.com (adsl-63-193-247-201.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.247.201]) by george.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with ESMTP id HAA15886; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:43:21 -0800
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:40:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Schoolcraft <bill@wiliweld.com>
X-Sender:  <bill@corten8>
To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: About Unix (meeting someone's parents:)
In-Reply-To: <01eb01c0a7b1$a6d4fc80$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.30.0103080723250.9360-100000@corten8>
System-ID: [en] (I; SunOS 5.8 i86pc)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

At Thu, 8 Mar 2001 it looks like Doug Young composed:

dougy->Probably the most negative experience I've had with linux was on a local
dougy->mailing list belong
dougy->"HUMBUG".  The inhabitants there are generally so fanatic that any non-linux
dougy->user stumbling
dougy->into the group has to either swear undying allegiance to Linus or be forever
dougy->damned :)
dougy->

........... I had felt the same when I first joined them. The funny
thing about running other Unix distro's that were around BEFORE
Linux is that once inside of either *BSD or Solaris etc, you seem to
notice familiarities.

That reminded "me" of meeting the parents of an old friend once,
I immediately saw where this person got there hair color, attitude
and stature. This is no different than Linux, which inherited a
little of the Unix OS's before it. So when I hear Linux people say
"BAH, Humbug" to Unix, I chuckle on the little bit of history they
are missing out on.

I have become a better Linux admin as a result of running *BSD, and
Solaris, and using HP-UX at the local college.

--
Bill Schoolcraft
PO Box 210076                 -o)
San Francisco CA 94121         /\
"UNIX, A Way Of Life."        _\_v
http://forwardslashunix.com



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  7:50:57 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D73CF37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 07:50:51 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21172;
	Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:50:36 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from bryden.apana.org.au(203.3.126.129), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdy21170; Fri Mar  9 01:50:26 2001
Message-ID: <000801c0a7e7$9ed1afc0$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Bill Schoolcraft" <bill@wiliweld.com>
Cc: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.30.0103080723250.9360-100000@corten8>
Subject: Re: About Unix (meeting someone's parents:)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:51:18 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

I guess I should have explained that "HUMBUG' in this context means "Home
Unix Machine Brisbane Users Group". No doubt they would have preferred to
replace the unix with linux but then it wouldn't sound the same.

> dougy->Probably the most negative experience I've had with linux was on a
local
> dougy->mailing list belong
> dougy->"HUMBUG".  The inhabitants there are generally so fanatic that any
non-linux
> dougy->user stumbling
> dougy->into the group has to either swear undying allegiance to Linus or
be forever
> dougy->damned :)
> dougy->
>
> ........... I had felt the same when I first joined them. The funny
> thing about running other Unix distro's that were around BEFORE
> Linux is that once inside of either *BSD or Solaris etc, you seem to
> notice familiarities.
>
> That reminded "me" of meeting the parents of an old friend once,
> I immediately saw where this person got there hair color, attitude
> and stature. This is no different than Linux, which inherited a
> little of the Unix OS's before it. So when I hear Linux people say
> "BAH, Humbug" to Unix, I chuckle on the little bit of history they
> are missing out on.
>
> I have become a better Linux admin as a result of running *BSD, and
> Solaris, and using HP-UX at the local college.
>
> --
> Bill Schoolcraft
> PO Box 210076                 -o)
> San Francisco CA 94121         /\
> "UNIX, A Way Of Life."        _\_v
> http://forwardslashunix.com
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  8:59:55 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.144])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE83B37B734
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 08:59:49 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from vcardona@home.com)
Received: from marx.marvic.chum ([24.17.229.11])
          by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com
          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP
          id <20010308165949.VUCY616.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@marx.marvic.chum>;
          Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:59:49 -0800
Received: (from vcardona@localhost)
	by marx.marvic.chum (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f28H0xh08966;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:00:59 -0600
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:00:59 -0600
From: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>,
	freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
Message-ID: <20010308110059.A8865@marx.marvic.chum>
Mail-Followup-To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>,
	"Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308015238.A6647@marx.marvic.chum> <01b401c0a7a6$3927e720$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308031635 <01eb01c0a7b1$a6d4fc80$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
In-Reply-To: <01eb01c0a7b1$a6d4fc80$847e03cb@apana.org.au>; from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 07:24:56PM +1000
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 07:24:56PM +1000, Doug Young wrote:
> Probably the most negative experience I've had with linux was on a local
> mailing list belong
> "HUMBUG".  The inhabitants there are generally so fanatic that any non-linux
> user stumbling
> into the group has to either swear undying allegiance to Linus or be forever
> damned :)

I think it depends on which distribution you use. Some distributions
have a more knowledgable user base (i.e. SuSE, Slackware). They are
usually more accepting of other UNIXs, and sometimes even advocate the
use of other UNIXs. As an example, let me point out that in the last two
days on the SuSE mailing list, one user recommended the use of OpenBSD
for a firewall. There has also been a discussion about the Maxtor
controversy where the tone has been very positive towards FreeBSD.

Not every Linux user is a zealot.

 - v
  
-- 
Victor R. Cardona
vcardona@home.com

                "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon 
                  code warrior that ever lived!"


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  9: 1:10 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.145])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BED1137B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 09:01:07 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from vcardona@home.com)
Received: from marx.marvic.chum ([24.17.229.11])
          by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com
          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP
          id <20010308170107.SENE811.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@marx.marvic.chum>;
          Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:01:07 -0800
Received: (from vcardona@localhost)
	by marx.marvic.chum (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f28H2Hr08971;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:02:17 -0600
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:02:17 -0600
From: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: Bill Schoolcraft <bill@wiliweld.com>,
	"Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix (meeting someone's parents:)
Message-ID: <20010308110217.B8865@marx.marvic.chum>
Mail-Followup-To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>,
	Bill Schoolcraft <bill@wiliweld.com>,
	"Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
References: <Pine.GSO.4.30.0103080723250.9360-100000@corten8> <000801c0a7e7$9ed1afc0$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
In-Reply-To: <000801c0a7e7$9ed1afc0$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>; from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 01:51:18AM +1000
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

On Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 01:51:18AM +1000, Doug Young wrote:
> I guess I should have explained that "HUMBUG' in this context means "Home
> Unix Machine Brisbane Users Group". 

Thanks. I was wondering that that stood for.

 -v 
-- 
Victor R. Cardona
vcardona@home.com

                "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon 
                  code warrior that ever lived!"


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  9: 2: 9 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from 213-99-223-40.uc.nombres.ttd.es (213-99-223-40.uc.nombres.ttd.es [213.99.223.40])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E527837B71D
	for <newbies@freebsd.org>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 09:01:57 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from deposito@eastmail.com)
From: deposito@eastmail.com
Reply-To: deposito@eastmail.com
To: newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: REGALE UN DOMINIO O REGISTRE EL SUYO
Message-Id: <20010308170157.E527837B71D@hub.freebsd.org>
Date: Thu,  8 Mar 2001 09:01:57 -0800 (PST)
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Si tiene una empresa en marcha, un proyecto o una idea registre su dominio en Internet AHORA, 
tal vez mañana sea demasiado tarde.

Si conoce a alguien en esta situacion y no sabe que regalarle regalele un dominio, es original y quedara bien.

Vea toda la informacion referente al registro de dominios en http://pagina-web.de/brand/

REGALE UN DOMINIO O REGISTRE EL SUYO
Otros servicios: hospedaje, redireccion de dominio, ...etc
¿HAS DE RENOVAR EL REGISTRO DE TU DOMINIO? PRECIO ESPECIAL POR TRANSFERENCIA DE DOMINIO (20$ AÑO)
PRECIO DE HOSTING IMBATIBLE

-----------------------REMOVE------------------------------
SI NO QUIERE RECIBIR MAS MENSAJES DESDE ESTA DIRECCION VAYA AL LINK 
INDICADO
Y SERA DADO DE BAJA INMEDIATAMENTE. DICHO LINK ES UN SERVICIO 
INDEPENDIENTE DEL ENVIO DE ESTE EMAIL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
dar de baja de la lista de distribucion - remove distribution list
http://borrame.anexos.com
RemovingNet. Cuentas gratuitas para el control  de bajas.
Free accounts for the control of  "unsubscribes"
RemovingNet nada tiene que ver con este email ni con su
contenido
RemovingNet nothing has to do with this email nor with contained his
----------------------------------------------------------------
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO RECEIVE MORE MESSAGES FROM US, PLEASE CLICK ON THE LINK
BELOW. http://borrame.anexos.com
 YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS WILL BE REMOVED FROM OUR DATA BASE IMMEDIATELY.
REMOVING.NET IS AN INDEPENDENT SERVICE
-----------------------REMOVE------------------------------




To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  9:18:59 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from heorot.1nova.com (sub24-23.member.dsl-only.net [63.105.24.23])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D9037B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 09:18:55 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from hamellr@1nova.com)
Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000)
	id EC60C18C3; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 09:43:06 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id D386D18C2; Wed,  7 Mar 2001 09:43:06 -0800 (PST)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:43:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Rick Hamell <hamellr@heorot.1nova.com>
To: Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: About Unix
In-Reply-To: <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0103070937400.59403-100000@heorot.1nova.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


> So my question to you would be: can you tell my just why I should hang
> in there? Why do you prefer FreeBSD? What will I discover if I stay
> that is not obvious at first sight?
> 
> I know this could be regarded as flame-bait, but since this
> Linux-bashing was already started, I was thinking I could perhaps jump
> in and ask that the discussion be steered towards some information for
> us FreeBSD-newbies.

	Well, It'd be more accurate to say that Linux is like FreeBSD not
the other way around. :) FreeBSD seems to me to be a lot more stable then
Linux in general. IE, I'm running FreeBSD 4.2, not Redhat Kernal 6.x with
Kernal Version whatever, whatever. When I CVSUP up to the latest and
greatest I do not suddenly have a whole bunch of new problems due to
incompatibilities.
	I also like the the FreeBSD philosphy over the Linux one. FreeBSD
Core team members are dedicated to making the best server OS that they
can. They for the most part could care less if any one else used it. (Not
that they take that to extremes, ever member of the Core team I've ever
talked to and met have been nice guys with lots of knowledge.) Whereas
Linux's direction is very reminiscint of Microsoft, Linux MUST be
installed on every computer in the world - or else. :) 
	Linux is a good OS. FreeBSD is a great OS. :)


	Rick

*******************************************************************
Rick's FreeBSD Web page http://heorot.1nova.com/freebsd
Ace Logan's Hardware Guide http://www.shatteredcrystal.net/hardware
***FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! http://www.freebsd.org


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  9:20:15 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.145])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FBF437B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 09:20:02 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from vcardona@home.com)
Received: from marx.marvic.chum ([24.17.229.11])
          by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com
          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP
          id <20010308172001.SUOA811.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@marx.marvic.chum>
          for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:20:01 -0800
Received: (from vcardona@localhost)
	by marx.marvic.chum (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f28HLCP09048
	for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:21:12 -0600
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:21:12 -0600
From: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
Message-ID: <20010308112112.D8865@marx.marvic.chum>
Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
In-Reply-To: <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>; from jeho5791@student.uu.se on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 11:56:40AM +0100
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 11:56:40AM +0100, Jesper Holmberg wrote:
> So my question to you would be: can you tell my just why I should hang
> in there? Why do you prefer FreeBSD? What will I discover if I stay
> that is not obvious at first sight?

It really depends on how you use the computer. FreeBSD is a better
server OS. If you are running a busy server, then you will probably
prefer FreeBSD over Linux. On the other hand, if you want a nice desktop
computer that alows you to play 3D games, and listen to mp3s while using
the latest hardware, then you might find Linux a better choice. Does
this mean that Linux can't be a server? No. Does it mean that FreeBSD
can't work on the desktop? No.

Now for some specifics... FreeBSD does have better memory management
than Linux. If you like to run many apps at the same time, then you will
notice this. Also, upgrading and maintaining a FreeBSD system is easier
because of the centralized development model. The ports system is
awesome. There is just no other way to describe it. It easily surpasses
the usefulness of RPM. Finally, it is nice to be able to upgrade your
entire OS whenever you feel like it.

HTH

 - v
-- 
Victor R. Cardona
vcardona@home.com

                "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon 
                  code warrior that ever lived!"


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  9:22:36 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.144])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD7737B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 09:22:31 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from vcardona@home.com)
Received: from marx.marvic.chum ([24.17.229.11])
          by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com
          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP
          id <20010308172230.WOIA616.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@marx.marvic.chum>;
          Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:22:30 -0800
Received: (from vcardona@localhost)
	by marx.marvic.chum (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f28HNfr09053;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:23:41 -0600
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:23:41 -0600
From: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
Message-ID: <20010308112341.E8865@marx.marvic.chum>
Mail-Followup-To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>,
	Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
In-Reply-To: <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au>; from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 09:07:45PM +1000
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 09:07:45PM +1000, Doug Young wrote:
> invariably the BSD system will recover with no damage but
> the linux one will need a total re-install

He might have to hit the reset a couple of times. I have blackouts here,
and my two Linux boxes have never required a reinstall because of it. I
know I have been lucky.

 - v
-- 
Victor R. Cardona
vcardona@home.com

                "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon 
                  code warrior that ever lived!"


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8  9:24:41 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.145])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0BB137B71C
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 09:24:38 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from vcardona@home.com)
Received: from marx.marvic.chum ([24.17.229.11])
          by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com
          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP
          id <20010308172438.SYIE811.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@marx.marvic.chum>;
          Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:24:38 -0800
Received: (from vcardona@localhost)
	by marx.marvic.chum (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id f28HPmq09059;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:25:48 -0600
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:25:48 -0600
From: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: "Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
Message-ID: <20010308112548.F8865@marx.marvic.chum>
Mail-Followup-To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>,
	"Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308131205.A1029@okb.lv> <024301c0a7de$930db020$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
In-Reply-To: <024301c0a7de$930db020$847e03cb@apana.org.au>; from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au on Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 12:46:32AM +1000
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

On Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 12:46:32AM +1000, Doug Young wrote:
> There is a technical basis to this stuff ..... apprently linus & his
> followers
> chose to adopt a different way of writing files than with "proper"unixes in
> order to gain a bit more speed, whereas BSD / Solaris / SCO / HP-UX
> etc considered reliability of higher significance than outright speed. This
> issue has been discussed several times in the 'questions" list.

Yes they chose asynchronous writes as the default. You can change this
however.

 - v
-- 
Victor R. Cardona
vcardona@home.com

                "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon 
                  code warrior that ever lived!"


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 10:51:50 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from felch.internot (b001-m004-p015.acld.clear.net.nz [203.97.54.15])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 424E337B727
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 10:51:44 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jamiew@clear.net.nz)
Received: from clear.net.nz (felch [10.0.0.1])
	by felch.internot (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f28Ip5o04617;
	Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:51:05 +1300 (NZDT)
	(envelope-from jamiew@clear.net.nz)
Message-ID: <3AA7D499.9F5C7B0B@clear.net.nz>
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 07:51:05 +1300
From: Jamie Walker <jamiew@clear.net.nz>
Organization: A Touch of Evil
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-BETA i386)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Doug Young wrote:

> setup two identical systems,one with linux & other with BSD
> 
> give them both a few jobs to do, then hit the "reset" button
> (you do have power failures in Sweden don't you ??)
> 
> invariably the BSD system will recover with no damage but
> the linux one will need a total re-install

Now this is just FUD. I've done this many times on Linux boxes and never
had to re-install at all.

Advocacy can be much better than this.

-- 
Email: jamiew@clear.net.nz  ICQ: 5632563  or shout loudly

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 10:55: 7 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from felch.internot (b001-m004-p015.acld.clear.net.nz [203.97.54.15])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D5737B71B
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 10:55:03 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jamiew@clear.net.nz)
Received: from clear.net.nz (felch [10.0.0.1])
	by felch.internot (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f28It2o04630
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:55:02 +1300 (NZDT)
	(envelope-from jamiew@clear.net.nz)
Message-ID: <3AA7D586.B6DCEE34@clear.net.nz>
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 07:55:02 +1300
From: Jamie Walker <jamiew@clear.net.nz>
Organization: A Touch of Evil
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-BETA i386)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Jesper Holmberg wrote:

> So my question to you would be: can you tell my just why I should hang
> in there? Why do you prefer FreeBSD? What will I discover if I stay
> that is not obvious at first sight?
> 
> I know this could be regarded as flame-bait, but since this
> Linux-bashing was already started, I was thinking I could perhaps jump
> in and ask that the discussion be steered towards some information for
> us FreeBSD-newbies.

The reason I stuck with FreeBSD, and moved my main machine over to it,
is discovering after using it for a while that it makes most admin tasks
a *lot* easier than with Linux. I like the ports system, I like the way
lots of little things are setup to work from the start (tcp wrapping is
a good example - no messing about, just edit /etc/hosts.allow and most
things are setup to use it by default etc). I like the cvsup/make... way
of upgrading, I like being able to set up more than one machine with
similar configuration just by copying /etc/rc.conf around and changing
only the network address etc.

The reasons I see commonly given by FreeBSD fans - better performance
and stability - simply haven't been a factor for me. It's hard to
improve on a perfect reliability record (which I had and still have with
Linux at home and work) and I've yet to notice much of a performance
difference either, except that Linux seems to cache disk I/O more
aggressively than FreeBSD on the same box.

FreeBSD isn't perfect though; my second machine is a Linux Mandrake 7.1
box, and much of the extra software on that is more nicely setup by
default than the same apps from the FreeBSD ports tree.

What it comes down to in the long run though is that what I don't like
about FreeBSD is easier to fix than what I don't like about Linux. :-)

-- 
Email: jamiew@clear.net.nz  ICQ: 5632563  or shout loudly

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 11:17:54 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBFA837B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 11:17:51 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com)
Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com
          (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54)  with ESMTP id AAA28B8;
          Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:22:44 -0800
Message-ID: <3AA7DADC.72A86B79@acuson.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:17:48 -0800
From: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Organization: Acuson
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308015238.A6647@marx.marvic.chum> <01b401c0a7a6$3927e720$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Doug Young wrote:
> 
> If the experience of many people with linux is like mine I wouldn't count on
> any significant migration from linux to FreeBSD. After a bad year struggling
> with the disgusting linux documentation, the often totally bigoted faithful

The bigoted faithful of Linux won't switch. But they are only a fragment
of a tiny minority (you can tell who they are since they pronounce Linux
as "guh-noo-lin-nooks"). 

I heard an old story about how people decide on which Linux distribution
they finally stick with. They bounce from distro to distro until they
find one that matches their personality, hardware and/or configuration.
This is the one they stick with. If it happens to be FreeBSD, then
they'll be a BSDer for life.

Unfortunately, some Linuxers get caught up in the whole GNU jihad, and
then the choice of a distribution becomes a religious imperative...

David

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 11:31:58 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0FFA37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 11:31:50 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com)
Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com
          (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54)  with ESMTP id AAA3195;
          Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:36:43 -0800
Message-ID: <3AA7DE24.6AC57082@acuson.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:31:48 -0800
From: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Organization: Acuson
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: About Unix
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Jesper Holmberg wrote:

> So my question to you would be: can you tell my just why I should hang
> in there? Why do you prefer FreeBSD? What will I discover if I stay
> that is not obvious at first sight?

I use both FreeBSD and Slackware Linux. I'm probably very different from
most BSDers in that I'm not running a server. I use FreeBSD and
Slackware for a home desktop machine. I use it for development, browsing
the web and playing games. If you're running a server, FreeBSD is
probably the best way to go. But if you're a desktop kind of guy,
there's some drawbacks to FreeBSD. "Linuxisms" might never occur on a
server only accessed through a remote shell. But for a desktop machine,
they're a daily annoyance. Examples of linuxisms include a stupid
looking penguin in your KDE menu (minor) to Konqueror not being able to
use a Linux plugin like flash (major annoyance).

But there are some great advantages that outweigh these annoyances. The
ports/packages system is a gem among gems. The documentation is
excellent. The configuration and layout makes sense. It's overall feel
is one of cohesiveness rather than the typical Linux feel of a motley
collection of unrelated parts.

The number one advantage is cohesiveness and sensibility. The number one
disadvantage is that the majority of applications are designed for
Linux.

David

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 12:17:37 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from smtp.atl.mediaone.net (atlasmtp.atl.mediaone.net [65.32.2.34])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5B9637B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 12:17:32 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from wade001@atl.mediaone.net)
Received: from guiness (rr-163-52-252.atl.mediaone.net [24.163.52.252])
	by smtp.atl.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA15567
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:17:31 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <005501c0a80e$2a4cab10$0301a8c0@flask.local>
From: "wade" <wade001@atl.mediaone.net>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:27:11 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

auth 46d06d2d unsubscribe freebsd-newbies wade001@atl.mediaone.net


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 13:14: 0 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4163637B72D
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 13:13:55 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21614;
	Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:13:48 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from bryden.apana.org.au(203.3.126.129), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdQ21612; Fri Mar  9 07:13:44 2001
Message-ID: <00a601c0a814$c91ce420$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
Cc: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308015238.A6647@marx.marvic.chum> <01b401c0a7a6$3927e720$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308031635
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:14:37 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org



Maybe its just the linux users in OZ that exhibit excessive fanatacism :)

> 
> Not every Linux user is a zealot.
> 
>  - v
>   
> -- 
> Victor R. Cardona
> vcardona@home.com
> 
>                 "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon 
>                   code warrior that ever lived!"
> 
> 


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 13:43: 6 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B96537B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 13:43:01 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21643;
	Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:42:53 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from bryden.apana.org.au(203.3.126.129), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpde21641; Fri Mar  9 07:42:47 2001
Message-ID: <00e601c0a818$d817e520$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "David Johnson" <djohnson@acuson.com>
Cc: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308015238.A6647@marx.marvic.chum> <01b401c0a7a6$3927e720$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <3AA7DADC.72A86
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:43:39 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

I did try a few linuxes wayyyyy back but it was a combination of factors
(shockingly
obtuse docs / instability / woeful GUI / constant lockups / need to install
a new kernel
every other day / etc etc, finally topped off by the HUMBUG experience, that
convinced
me there must be a better way. I now use FreeBSD mostly (occasionally
OpenBSD)
on servers (never workstations) & either Solaris or Win2000 on workstations,
depending
on the applications that need to be run. I use StarOffice (rather than
MSOffice) in Solaris & Win2000 but unfortunately most small business
accounting packages here are DOS /
Windows beasts.No linux I used was even as stable as Win98 & therefore a
long way
short of Win2000.

The BSDs have definitely proven to be good server O/Ses but the GUIs will
need to
improve a lot before I'll be happy to use them .... compare the messing
around thats
all too often required to get X running with the ease of configuring the
Solaris / CDE GUI
I guess the BSD developers have little interest in GUI stuff anyway,
possibly considering
that stuff is for gameplayers rather than serious users (read developers)
>
> The bigoted faithful of Linux won't switch. But they are only a fragment
> of a tiny minority (you can tell who they are since they pronounce Linux
> as "guh-noo-lin-nooks").
>
> I heard an old story about how people decide on which Linux distribution
> they finally stick with. They bounce from distro to distro until they
> find one that matches their personality, hardware and/or configuration.
> This is the one they stick with. If it happens to be FreeBSD, then
> they'll be a BSDer for life.
>
> Unfortunately, some Linuxers get caught up in the whole GNU jihad, and
> then the choice of a distribution becomes a religious imperative...

Possibly ..... I've never given a lot of thought to the GNU thing .... if
something works
properly I don't mind paying for it, unfortunately the prices asked are
often way over
the perceived value. Certainly some GNU applications are as good as,or
better, than
commercial software ..... sometimes its the other way around. eg that nFTP
thing
developed by a Russian academic is in many ways vastly superior to the likes
of CuteFTP,
however the whole XFree / KDE scene is a poxridden disaster compared with
commercial X,
so I can't see that GNU in itself is the holy grail of software.



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 13:49:33 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0435637B71A
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 13:49:24 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21652;
	Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:49:01 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from bryden.apana.org.au(203.3.126.129), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdZ21650; Fri Mar  9 07:48:53 2001
Message-ID: <00ee01c0a819$b2208ba0$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Jamie Walker" <jamiew@clear.net.nz>
Cc: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <3AA7D499.9F5C7B0B@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:49:45 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Its only gotta happen once when you have an all volunteer organization with
few people willing to do anything / 50 or 100 dialin users who depend on the
thing being running / the servers located remotely where it can take a day
or two before anyone gets there. After several times one stops seeing the
funny side.

As I said earlier, the FreeBSD systems do the job expected of them, the
linux ones did not.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Walker" <jamiew@clear.net.nz>
To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>;
<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: About Unix


> Doug Young wrote:
>
> > setup two identical systems,one with linux & other with BSD
> >
> > give them both a few jobs to do, then hit the "reset" button
> > (you do have power failures in Sweden don't you ??)
> >
> > invariably the BSD system will recover with no damage but
> > the linux one will need a total re-install
>
> Now this is just FUD. I've done this many times on Linux boxes and never
> had to re-install at all.
>
> Advocacy can be much better than this.
>
> --
> Email: jamiew@clear.net.nz  ICQ: 5632563  or shout loudly
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 14:42:33 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E623B37B71A
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 14:42:28 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com)
Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com
          (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54)  with ESMTP id AAA2AC6;
          Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:47:22 -0800
Message-ID: <3AA80AD2.DD5F799A@acuson.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 14:42:26 -0800
From: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Organization: Acuson
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308015238.A6647@marx.marvic.chum> <01b401c0a7a6$3927e720$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <3AA7DADC.72A86 <00e601c0a818$d817e520$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Doug Young wrote:

> I guess the BSD developers have little interest in GUI stuff anyway,
> possibly considering
> that stuff is for gameplayers rather than serious users (read developers)

a) the underlying GUI stuff is not in the purview of BSD anyway. It's up
to XFree86. It shouldn't be in the purview of the linux kernel either,
which is why I think putting DRI in the kernel was a really bad move.

b) GUIs have their place, and it not just for playing games. It probably
comes down to nothing more that personal style.

c) don't get too elitist on us. Developers aren't the only serious
users.

David

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 14:51:13 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from smtp011.mail.yahoo.com (smtp011.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.31])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F19537B729
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 14:51:08 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from fbsdq@yahoo.com)
Received: from h2.impactidealsolutions.com (HELO support10) (216.98.200.91)
  by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 22:51:08 -0000
X-Apparently-From: <fbsdq@yahoo.com>
Message-Id: <SAK.2001.03.08.bnehplin@support10>
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:52:20 -0700
X-Priority: 3
From: Peter <fbsdq@yahoo.com>
X-Mailer: Mail Warrior
To: dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au, "" <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: About Unix
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit
X-Mailer-Version: v3.57
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

|me there must be a better way. I now use FreeBSD mostly (occasionally
. . . .|OpenBSD)
. . . .|on servers (never workstations) & either Solaris or Win2000 on 
workstations,


Offtopic, but I'm just curios why do you never use FreeBSD as a 
workstation? Why use Solaris as a workstation instead of FreeBSD [I'm 
assuming you are talking Solaris x86], if not this question > /dev/null.

	For me I like FreeBSD as a desktop more than I like linux as a 
destkop, but then again I dont' play games [I have windows for that],  
I've found X and anything else is still easier in FBSD than in Linux 
because of the ports.  But as configuring X in linux and FBSD it's the 
same thing, X isn't made by linux nor by FBSD, but by xfree86.org, so all 
the tools are the same [I think].

	My only gripe with linux, and the reason I ditched it is, because 
it's messy.  It just puts everything and the kitchen sink on your HD, and 
it's up to you to remove everything that's unneeded.  It's hell with getting 
software from a million different places [I'm talking RH 6.1 and it was 
still hell, even with rpms].  Conflicting version of software etc.  In FBSD, 
make worl; make installworld, voila you are set, and you are 99% sure that 
they system will work. [so far it has been like that for me.]

On 03/08/2001 2:43:39 PM, "Doug Young" is quoted as saying:
 

. . . .|I did try a few linuxes wayyyyy back but it was a combination of 
factors
. . . .|(shockingly
. . . .|obtuse docs / instability / woeful GUI / constant lockups / need to 
install
. . . .|a new kernel
. . . .|every other day / etc etc, finally topped off by the HUMBUG 
experience, that
. . . .|convinced
. . . .|me there must be a better way. I now use FreeBSD mostly 
(occasionally
. . . .|OpenBSD)
. . . .|on servers (never workstations) & either Solaris or Win2000 on 
workstations,
. . . .|depending
. . . .|on the applications that need to be run. I use StarOffice (rather than
. . . .|MSOffice) in Solaris & Win2000 but unfortunately most small 
business
. . . .|accounting packages here are DOS /
. . . .|Windows beasts.No linux I used was even as stable as Win98 & 
therefore a
. . . .|long way
. . . .|short of Win2000.
. . . .|
. . . .|The BSDs have definitely proven to be good server O/Ses but the 
GUIs will
. . . .|need to
. . . .|improve a lot before I'll be happy to use them .... compare the messing
. . . .|around thats
. . . .|all too often required to get X running with the ease of configuring 
the
. . . .|Solaris / CDE GUI
. . . .|I guess the BSD developers have little interest in GUI stuff anyway,
. . . .|possibly considering
. . . .|that stuff is for gameplayers rather than serious users (read 
developers)
. . . .|>
. . . .|> The bigoted faithful of Linux won't switch. But they are only a 
fragment
. . . .|> of a tiny minority (you can tell who they are since they pronounce 
Linux
. . . .|> as "guh-noo-lin-nooks").
. . . .|>
. . . .|> I heard an old story about how people decide on which Linux 
distribution
. . . .|> they finally stick with. They bounce from distro to distro until they
. . . .|> find one that matches their personality, hardware and/or 
configuration.
. . . .|> This is the one they stick with. If it happens to be FreeBSD, then
. . . .|> they'll be a BSDer for life.
. . . .|>
. . . .|> Unfortunately, some Linuxers get caught up in the whole GNU jihad, 
and
. . . .|> then the choice of a distribution becomes a religious imperative...
. . . .|
. . . .|Possibly ..... I've never given a lot of thought to the GNU thing .... if
. . . .|something works
. . . .|properly I don't mind paying for it, unfortunately the prices asked 
are
. . . .|often way over
. . . .|the perceived value. Certainly some GNU applications are as good 
as,or
. . . .|better, than
. . . .|commercial software ..... sometimes its the other way around. eg that 
nFTP
. . . .|thing
. . . .|developed by a Russian academic is in many ways vastly superior to 
the likes
. . . .|of CuteFTP,
. . . .|however the whole XFree / KDE scene is a poxridden disaster 
compared with
. . . .|commercial X,
. . . .|so I can't see that GNU in itself is the holy grail of software.
. . . .|
. . . .|
. . . .|
. . . .|To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
. . . .|with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message



www.nul.cjb.net
www.FreeBSD.org



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 15:19:33 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C5A37B71C
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 15:19:28 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA21781;
	Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:19:21 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from bryden.apana.org.au(203.3.126.129), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdi21779; Fri Mar  9 09:19:11 2001
Message-ID: <014e01c0a826$4f5a1060$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Peter" <fbsdq@yahoo.com>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <SAK.2001.03.08.bnehplin@support10>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:20:03 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

> Offtopic, but I'm just curios why do you never use FreeBSD as a
> workstation? Why use Solaris as a workstation instead of FreeBSD [I'm
> assuming you are talking Solaris x86], if not this question > /dev/null.

Simple .... I've occasionally waded through configuring X during setup of a
gateway
system & invariably had problems getting it to a usable state. Those that I
have had
working didn't impress me anyway ... all the important config items are
command line
things,  so for server use there is no advantage I'm aware of in having X..
In addition,
I've noticed that some of the security experts state that X is actually a
disadvantage
on a server.

I can't see any point in running FreeBSD on workstations ... there are few
"real world"
applications available, the linux compatibility is far from perfect, then
there is the printing
to "common or garden variety" inkjet issue, the fiddly XFree setup & the
amateurish
looking and horribly unstable KDE to contend with.   Ok so there are better
alternatives
than KDE (eg XFCE) but that only provides a halfway usable workaround to one
problem ... the others still remain. Now consider the Solaris x86
alternative ... the GUI is straightforward to configure & doesn't do weird
stuff, StarOffice works properly, printing
isn't a problem with ESP PrintPro, and more to the point it can be installed
in a regular
business office machine used by ordinary folk.

All that considered, FreeBSD does an extremely good job in its intended
capacity as a
server O/S ... it was never intended as a gaming or wordprocessor platform.



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 15:37:41 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A1B337B71A
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 15:37:38 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com)
Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com
          (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54)  with ESMTP id AAA4C00;
          Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:42:32 -0800
Message-ID: <3AA817C0.BC97B6F0@acuson.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 15:37:36 -0800
From: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Organization: Acuson
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
References: <SAK.2001.03.08.bnehplin@support10> <014e01c0a826$4f5a1060$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Doug Young wrote:
 
> All that considered, FreeBSD does an extremely good job in its intended
> capacity as a
> server O/S ... it was never intended as a gaming or wordprocessor platform.

I guess I'll just have to go and uninstall Simcity and Staroffice :-)

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 16:27:26 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC6437B71B
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 16:27:22 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from rivas45@sprintmail.com)
Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-004njnbruP281.dialsprint.net [168.191.61.211])
	by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA08476;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:27:20 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:27:15 -0500
From: Eric Rivas <rivas45@sprintmail.com>
To: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
Message-Id: <20010308192715.7831e5c2.rivas45@sprintmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20010308015238.A6647@marx.marvic.chum>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <00f901c0a794$0b2a64e0$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
	<20010308015238.A6647@marx.marvic.chum>
X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.4.61 (GTK+ 1.2.8; FreeBSD 3.5-STABLE; i386)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:52:38 -0600
"Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 03:52:57PM +1000, Doug Young wrote:
> > Hear hear !!!! ..... no way that stuff will get onto any of my systems :)
> 
> Well think of it this way, and perhaps it will make it more palatable.
> 
> A couple of years ago, the average user thought that Microsoft was the
> epitome of computing. There were no visible alternatives, so they just
> kept using what they had always used, Windows. All of a sudden, this
> UNIX clone called Linux, starts to become popular. People see that it
> isn't that bad. They play with Linux, learn to like it, want more, and
> eventualy move on to BSD based systems. 

Actually my first contact with anything *nix was Redhat, heard it from some TV show and got interested.  Never installed though, I kind of just skipped the whole Linux thing and found FreeBSD (which is what I choose and installed).

> 
> Of course, if you don't care for new users...
> 
>  - v
> -- 
> Victor R. Cardona
> vcardona@home.com
> 
>                 "Behold the keyboard of Kahless, the greatest Klingon 
>                   code warrior that ever lived!"
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


-- 
Eric J. Rivas, KC2HMV
email=rivas45@sprintmail.com
www=http://home.sprintmail.com/~rivas45/
icq=61930546

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 18: 6:35 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from web6204.mail.yahoo.com (web6204.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.22.115])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2685537B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 18:06:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from thenetdm@yahoo.com)
Message-ID: <20010309020633.17397.qmail@web6204.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [24.179.129.150] by web6204.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:06:33 PST
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:06:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Jennings <thenetdm@yahoo.com>
Subject: backup
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

ok, sory to break from the bickering all day today (i
thought it was the linux people that argued :)

I am setting up a P200MMX with a 15 gig hard drive to
dual boot with FreeBSD and Red Hat 7, I have
successfuly set it up 3 times as i screw one of the
ops up in some way or another.
My question is, once i have it set up is there a way
to back up the drive so that it can be re-imaged?  Can
i use Ghost?  where should i put the image?  is there
a better way?  i know that working with it and trying
different things i'm going to screw it up again.  any
advice?  anyone?

sincerely,
tired of installing and ready to play

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 21:13:27 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from web3903.mail.yahoo.com (web3903.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.203.199])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ABEBD37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 21:13:25 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from yyqme@yahoo.com)
Message-ID: <20010309051325.26837.qmail@web3903.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [210.33.89.113] by web3903.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 21:13:25 PST
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:13:25 -0800 (PST)
From: youkin yang <yyqme@yahoo.com>
Subject: freebsd2.2.6
To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Dear sir

    I need to install freebsd2.2.6, but I fail to find
the release of that at
ftp://ftp5.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD, I dont know which
contents belong to freebsd2.2.6. So how can I download
it?

    sincerely

                                        youkee

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 21:48:40 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0E1F37B71A
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 21:48:36 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com)
Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154])
	by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f295loN01294;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:47:50 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com)
From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>,
	"Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: About Unix
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:47:49 -0800
Message-ID: <003d01c0a85c$7955d620$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
In-Reply-To: <024301c0a7de$930db020$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0
Importance: Normal
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
>[mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Doug Young
>
>There is a technical basis to this stuff ..... apprently linus & his
>followers
>chose to adopt a different way of writing files than with "proper"unixes in
>order to gain a bit more speed, whereas BSD / Solaris / SCO / HP-UX
>etc considered reliability of higher significance than outright speed. This
>issue has been discussed several times in the 'questions" list.
>

The difference is that, by default, Linux filesystems are mounted async,
FreeBSD filesystems are mounted sync.

However, this is just a default.  It is trivial to change on both system,
and if you have Linux systems that are going to be in environments where
they are going to be regularly restarting, then it's a lot easier to
change the config to have the automounter mount the Linux filesystems
synchronously.

In any case, all of this is begging 2 very important questions:

1) Why don't you organize your systems to be resistant to this?

2) Why don't you correct the environment so the systems don't have to
restart.

As far as #1 is concerned, I manage a Usenet news server that is very busy.
About once every 2-3 months it gets a SCSI bus error and reboots itself.
After the first one of these I changed the system so that when it does
reboot itself, that there's not a problem.

You see, the issue with uncontrolled shutdowns is this.  If the partition
(note partition, not filesystem) is quiescent during a uncontrolled
shutdown, when it is fsck'd during reboot, there won't be any corruption -
and fsck will mark it clean and remount it.

This leads to an obvious solution - you arrainge your filesystem mount
points so that anything that is being written is NOT on a filesystem
containing startup scripts, (typically in /etc) or on a partition that's
automounted.

For example, with FreeBSD, the default mount points are to put /etc and / on
the same partition.  Fine - but /tmp is created on /, and /tmp is usually
going to be in use during an uncontrolled shutdown.

What I did with my news server is /var is on it's own partition, and all
logs in it are softlinked to another disk.  /tmp and /usr/tmp are also
softlinked to this disk.  The filesystems on this disk are NOT automounted.

If the system crashes and reboots itself, then /, /var, and /usr are all on
partitions that are NEVER written to during normal operation, thus they are
always quiescent, and they always come back up with no problem.  I can then
Telnet into the system and manually run fsck on the other disks.  Granted,
it's a nuisance because the log and temp directories are unavailable during
this limited maintainence mode, but the system won't deny me access.

Once the rest of the disks are clean, I mount them, then restart syslogd and
the other programs that need to be started and away we go.  No need to be
physically at the system to do all this, nor is sync/async mounting an
issue.

Now, as far as #2 is concerned, with the exception of my news server, none
of my other servers ever have uncontrolled shutdowns.  This is because of
several things.  First, all servers have their own UPS's and are plugged
into the sense port of the UPS, and if the UPS goes onto battery for too
long, the server does a controlled shutdown.  The servers and UPS's are also
all on remote reboot switches.  Secondly, if I find a flaky server I work
with it until I fix it or scrap it.  I tolerate the news server because I
know that the problem is a software driver bug and I have not yet gotten
time to rebuild it and fix the bug.  (news servers typically take a long
time to rebuild and tune)


Ted Mittelstaedt                      tedm@toybox.placo.com
Author of:          The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
Book website:         http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 21:54:18 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from tierzero.apana.org.au (apana.internode.on.net [150.101.94.101])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E65E037B71B
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 21:54:14 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bastill@sa.apana.org.au)
Received: from PhD_1.testname.com.au (bra@dialup-12.pasa.apana.org.au [203.14.158.141]) by tierzero.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25494; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:23:45 +1030 (CST)
From: Brian Astill <bastill@sa.apana.org.au>
Reply-To: bastill@sa.apana.org.au
To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:20:35 +1030
X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29]
Content-Type: text/plain
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <20010308131205.A1029@okb.lv> <024301c0a7de$930db020$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
In-Reply-To: <024301c0a7de$930db020$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <01030915094403.26742@PhD_1.testname.com.au>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

On Fri, 09 Mar 2001, Doug Young wrote:

> Our machines are located at various remote sites & typically its difficult
> to get there at a moments notice.  

So your organisation didn't have the money for a small UPS which had
just enough energy on power failure on to run a script to power down
gracefully, for each site?    Would have been MOST helpful, whatever
the OS.  Especially in Queensland.  
I guess the cheap-but-risky "she'll be right" system wasn't
YOUR recommendation!

>The linux systems typically failed to
> re-start automatically whereas FreeBSD ones do. 
>{[..] I'm not
> aware of one instance of one of our FreeBSD systems needing re-install
> after a power failure.

To me this says super things about FreeBSD robustness, rather than bad
things about any other OS.  Being a 'belt and braces' man myself, I'd
not want to run remotes without UPS, regardless.  

So far as the migration from Linux is concerned, I think it is a
logical progression for the increasing number who are coming to Linux
as a refuge from Windows.  Like me.  I wouldn't have known about
FreeBSD if it hadn't been for Linux.

I completely agree about the execrable Linux documentation.  The docs
for FreeBSD are VERY good.  (Pedantic FreeBSD in particular <g>).

-- 
Regards,
Brian

********************************************************
Dr Brian Astill  Visiting Research Fellow
Flinders University Institute of International Education
Bus 8201 3480     FAX 8449 9199
bastill@sa.apana.org.au
********************************************************

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 22:33:22 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from server.mbg.com.ge (server.mbg.com.ge [212.72.131.237])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9C94037B80C
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 22:33:12 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from nugzar@mbg.com.ge)
Received: (qmail 26645 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 06:57:42 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO nugzar) (192.168.170.152)
  by server.mbg.com.ge with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 06:57:42 -0000
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 10:33:08 +0400
From: Nugzar Nebieridze <nugzar@mbg.com.ge>
X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.44) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091
Reply-To: Nugzar Nebieridze <nugzar@mbg.com.ge>
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Message-ID: <1243859369.20010309103308@mbg.com.ge>
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re[2]: About Unix
In-reply-To: <024301c0a7de$930db020$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com>
 <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu>
 <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
 <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308131205.A1029@okb.lv>
 <024301c0a7de$930db020$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Hello Doug,

Thursday, March 08, 2001, 6:46:32 PM, you wrote:

DY> Our machines are located at various remote sites & typically its difficult
DY> to get there at a moments notice.  The linux systems typically failed to
DY> re-start automatically whereas FreeBSD ones do.

I agree that fs for freebsd is better. The kernel of FreeBSD is also
writeen at higher level than Linux's, but the situation is rapidly
changing. I'm now using FreeBSD as my internet server, but during 3
years of using FreeBSD it also was stucked due to power fault and did
not restarted automatically because of fs fault. it happened twice
during these years maybe you consider that it is not often but anyway
it happened.

As for linux, I see the improvements that I do not see in FreeBSD.

1. Both systems need Journaling File Systems. (there are three
projects for linux: reiserfs, xfs (SGI) and jfx (IBM)). I did not hear
of any for FreeBSD.

2. I need good commercial SQL server for FreeBSD. (not MySQL, mSQL,
PostgreSQL and so on...) May be there are
some but did not find them and if you know where I can download them
any information is appreciated. For linux I already downloaded Oracle
SQL and Sybase SQL. There are also DB2 and Informix SQL-s.

3. I also need clustering solutions for both of these systems.
I heard about mosix for linux, what about BSD?

----------

I like BSD very much, but if situation does not change I think that
I'll have to svitch to Debian GNU/Linux. Besides they added some
functionality to their distribution like (for example automatic
updating of software from security.debian.org). So when a security
hole is found the system upgrades itself.

As for dicumentation, for linux there are a lot of HOWTOs. Where can I
find such documentation for FreeBSD? (only www.freebsddiary.org ???).

Don't treat me wrong, but I like both FreeBSD and Linux. Both of them
are stable, both of them are open source. But what I see is that Linux
is developing faster for me that is very important.

That was my 0.15



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 23:16:18 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from hotmail.com (f168.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.168])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C2D37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 23:16:15 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bsdblood@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Thu, 8 Mar 2001 23:16:14 -0800
Received: from 203.121.16.72 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;	Fri, 09 Mar 2001 07:16:14 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [203.121.16.72]
From: "BSD Blood" <bsdblood@hotmail.com>
To: dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au, jeho5791@student.uu.se,
	freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 07:16:14 -0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <F168eLYCT4aJ6pkNzPZ000035ff@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2001 07:16:14.0551 (UTC) FILETIME=[D38A8670:01C0A868]
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Utterly agree.


>From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
>To: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>, 
><freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
>Subject: Re: About Unix
>Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:07:45 +1000
>
>Try the following on both a linux & a BSD system
>
>setup two identical systems,one with linux & other with BSD
>
>give them both a few jobs to do, then hit the "reset" button
>(you do have power failures in Sweden don't you ??)
>
>invariably the BSD system will recover with no damage but
>the linux one will need a total re-install
>
>We did have exclusively linux in our servers but since the changeover to
>FreeBSD the uptimes have increased to the point where machines
>generally keep going constantly from one upgrade til the next ... usually
>a year or so later. The Redhat / Slackware / Debian systems rarely went
>for a month before something or other broke. We do have the odd Win2000
>Server system (required for certain software applications) & their uptime
>is generally superior to linux ..... no comparison with BSD though.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
>To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
>Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 8:56 PM
>Subject: Re: About Unix
>
>
> >
> > Let me take the opportunity to jump into this Linux-bashing thread,
> > and ask a related question.
> >
> > I am a long time Linux user who have for quite a while been aware of
> > the *BSDs, planning to try it out. Since a couple of weeks, I've
> > had FreeBSD installed on an extra machine.
> >
> > No bad experiences so far. A lot of reading had to be done, but that
> > was expected. But to sum up my experience somewhat naively, I would
> > say: this is like Linux, just a lot of small differences.
> >
> > So my question to you would be: can you tell my just why I should hang
> > in there? Why do you prefer FreeBSD? What will I discover if I stay
> > that is not obvious at first sight?
> >
> > I know this could be regarded as flame-bait, but since this
> > Linux-bashing was already started, I was thinking I could perhaps jump
> > in and ask that the discussion be steered towards some information for
> > us FreeBSD-newbies.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Jesper
> >
> > --
> >                             "But how can one be warm alone?"
> >
> > Jesper Holmberg         jeho5791@student.uu.se
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
> >
>
>
>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
>with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar  8 23:52:47 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A4F37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu,  8 Mar 2001 23:52:44 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com)
Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154])
	by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f297qXN01566;
	Thu, 8 Mar 2001 23:52:33 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com)
From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>,
	"Peter" <fbsdq@yahoo.com>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: About Unix
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 23:52:33 -0800
Message-ID: <005f01c0a86d$e64420a0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
In-Reply-To: <014e01c0a826$4f5a1060$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0
Importance: Normal
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
>[mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Doug Young
>Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 3:20 PM
>To: Peter; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
>Subject: Re: About Unix
>
>
>> Offtopic, but I'm just curios why do you never use FreeBSD as a
>> workstation? Why use Solaris as a workstation instead of FreeBSD [I'm
>> assuming you are talking Solaris x86], if not this question > /dev/null.
>
>Simple .... I've occasionally waded through configuring X during setup of a
>gateway
>system & invariably had problems getting it to a usable state. Those that I
>have had
>working didn't impress me anyway ... all the important config items are
>command line
>things,  so for server use there is no advantage I'm aware of in having X..

You may not want to configure X but I'd suggest you install it.  Many
packages have dependencies on the X11 libraries.

Also, while I agree that there's little use for X _servers_ on servers,
there's definitely a use for X clients.


Ted Mittelstaedt                      tedm@toybox.placo.com
Author of:          The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
Book website:         http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9  0:48: 0 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from hecky.it.northwestern.edu (hecky.acns.nwu.edu [129.105.16.51])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 556F737B71A
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 00:47:55 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from stuyman@confusion.net)
Received: (from mailnull@localhost)
	by hecky.it.northwestern.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA07856;
	Fri, 9 Mar 2001 02:47:02 -0600 (CST)
Received: from confusion.net (dhcp089069.res-hall.nwu.edu [199.74.89.69]) by hecky.acns.nwu.edu via smap (V2.0)
	id xma007802; Fri, 9 Mar 01 02:46:42 -0600
Message-ID: <3AA8988E.A3BBB7DA@confusion.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 02:47:10 -0600
From: Laurence Berland <stuyman@confusion.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: lhsmith@cfl.rr.com, Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, b.j.smith@ieee.org, thebs@theseus.com,
	"Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
Subject: Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <3AA79277.32455314@cfl.rr.com> <028b01c0a7e2$3ff2d420$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

I'm not going to really get involved with this, but let me share a
little anecdotal evidence.  A few times, just to see what would happen,
I pulled the power cord for a power strip that contained not one, not
two, not three, but ten Linux servers.  Nine came up without problems. 
The tenth needed a little help with the fsck.  I've done this sort of
thing more than once, and I'd rate 1 in 10 as a reasonable rate.  Never
did I need to reinstall.  FreeBSD had better results, 1 in 100 or so. 
Also, no reinstalls.  Both systems may need a reinstall on very very
rare occasions, so rare I've never seen it happen.  You'd have to hose
the system very badly.  It's all pretty reliable.  Let's not become the
FUD spreaders here.

Needing sleep, writing papers at 3 am, wishing I wasnt,
Laurence

http://www.isp.northwestern.edu/~laurence

Doug Young wrote:
> 
> My point remains .... our FreeBSD systems invariably recover after a power
> failure, the previous linux ones rarely did. Given the difficulty in getting
> to the remote systems thats more than sufficient justification for the move
> from linux to FreeBSD. We'd never consider running any form of Windows on
> remote systems ... we do have some Win2000 boxes but they are all kept close
> to home where they can get a hug when needed. In comparison the FreeSD boxes
> typically run for about a year before upgrade, the linux ones lasted maybe
> two months at best, and the (local) Win2000 systems probably get 6 months
> between re-installs.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lourdes H. Smith" <lhsmith@cfl.rr.com>
> To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
> Cc: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>;
> <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; <b.j.smith@ieee.org>; <thebs@theseus.com>;
> "Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 12:08 AM
> Subject: Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
> 
> > Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
> >
> > Lourdes' husband here --
> >
> > Okay Doug, you are so full of crap, my wife came to me with
> > questions based on your misinformation.  That's sad.  Learn the
> > systems and only talk about _what_you_know_!  I rebuke your comments
> > below.  The key here is _technical_facts_.  Now if you want to talk
> > about those, come to ELUG (http://www.elug.org).  We cater to all
> > OSS (Open Source Software) users.
> >
> > Doug Young wrote:
> > > Try the following on both a linux & a BSD system
> > > setup two identical systems,one with linux & other with BSD
> > > give them both a few jobs to do, then hit the "reset" button
> > > (you do have power failures in Sweden don't you ??)
> > > invariably the BSD system will recover with no damage but
> > > the linux one will need a total re-install
> >
> > I have maintained over 100 production Linux systems over the years
> > (since 1995 on corporate networks).  I have never, ever had to
> > re-install.  Same goes for BSD (which I've used limitedly since 1995
> > as well).  [ Side note:  I've been an NT administrator even longer
> > (1992-1999), and re-installs are a fact of life (not as bad as Win9x
> > -- but I find NTFS will destroy itself after 2-3 years of good use
> > when it "assumes" a journal flush is good). ]
> >
> > Now I know you are _trying_ to "stress" the fact that most Linux
> > distributions don't come with a "journaling filesystem", but the
> > default, Linux Ext2 filesystem is quite a reliable filesystem,
> > despite its simplicity.  In fact, of all the major UFS (UNIX
> > Filesystems), it fragments the least (although fragmentation on any
> > UFS not even close to being as bad as any Windows OS).
> >
> > > We did have exclusively linux in our servers but since the changeover to
> > > FreeBSD the uptimes have increased to the point where machines
> > > generally keep going constantly from one upgrade til the next ...
> usually
> > > a year or so later. The Redhat / Slackware / Debian systems rarely went
> > > for a month before something or other broke. We do have the odd Win2000
> > > Server system (required for certain software applications) & their
> uptime
> > > is generally superior to linux ..... no comparison with BSD though.
> >
> > Everyone's going to have their own comments.  My main Linux-based
> > Samba-NFS file server (which also does mail, CVS and everything else
> > under the sun) for over 50 NT, Solaris and Linux clients is running
> > RedHat 6.2 with kernel 2.2.16+Ext3+NFS3.  Crash recovery times are
> > <<5 minutes -- but I've only seen that happen once.  It stays up
> > forever (until stupid Florida Power goes down).
> >
> > "Denis J. Cirulis" wrote:
> > > I don't want to claim BSD or Linux, I must say I'm using both BSD
> > > and Linux about 5 years.
> >
> > Same boat.  No bigotry.
> >
> > > You're wrong about power failures: first you can switch to
> > > ReiserFS and after power failure you wouldn't be asked to do
> > > fsck. Journaling FS rocks, but I haven't seen any for FreeBSD.
> >
> > ReiserFS has issues as an NFS server.  Regardless, I have extensive
> > knowledge of Ext3 on *PRODUCTION* systems.  I'm also moving into
> > using XFS (I repackage their kernels from CVS in RPM format) since
> > Ext3 doesn't run on 2.4.  XFS is a pretty advanced system.
> >
> > I recently did a presentation on Linux JFS options (focus on Ext3
> > and XFS).  You can find it here:
> >
> > http://www.smithconcepts.com/files/presentations/ELUG_JFS_2001Mar05a.pdf
> >
> > > One I must say that *BSD under heavy load are more powerfull.
> >
> > That's the power of its mature VM and scheduler systems.  Linux is
> > getting there.  Linux 2.4 really improves _a_lot_.  Linus is getting
> > good at balancing simplicity and single-user performance against
> > server/multiuser performance.
> >
> > -- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
> >    Engineering/SysAdmin, Theseus Logic, Inc.
> >    Contributing Author, "Samba Unleashed"
> >    [ Note:  One chapter was the "Samba Unleashed" appendix on BSD
> > ;-P ]
> >
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

-- 
Laurence Berland
Intern, Flooz.com
Northwestern '04
stuyman@confusion.net
http://www.isp.northwestern.edu/~laurence

"The world has turned and left me here"

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9  3:48:21 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from Mail.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE (mail.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.1.48])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D73737B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 03:48:19 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de)
Received: by Mail.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE (Smail3.2.0.98)
	  from [130.133.197.137] (130.133.197.137) with esmtp
	  id <m14bLNX-00OBZxC>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:48:15 +0100 (MET)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:48:15 +0100 (MET)
X-Sender: uzs106@mailin.uni-bonn.de
Message-Id: <l03102804b6cd724c115d@[130.133.197.137]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.30.0103080723250.9360-100000@corten8>
References: <01eb01c0a7b1$a6d4fc80$847e03cb@apana.org.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: Bill Schoolcraft <bill@wiliweld.com>,
	Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
From: Heiko Recktenwald <uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Subject: Re: About Unix (meeting someone's parents:)
Cc: "Victor R. Cardona" <vcardona@home.com>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Yeah !

>I have become a better Linux admin as a result of running *BSD, and
>Solaris, and using HP-UX at the local college.

Those little differences make one rethink ones own first decisions. Many
ways leed to Rome...



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9  4:14:23 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mail.malawi.net (mail.malawi.net [208.148.169.7])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC99537B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 04:13:58 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from kondwani@malawi.net)
Received: from taurus.malawi.net ([208.148.168.142])
	by mail.malawi.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f29CDFD13297
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:13:17 +0200 (CAT)
Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010309110914.03be0140@pop3.malawi.net>
X-Sender: kondwani@pop3.malawi.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:13:23 +0200
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Kondie <kondwani@malawi.net>
Subject: FreeBSD server
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Hello,

I am in the process of acquiring a hardware platform for hosting a mail 
server. I am considering a Compaq Proliant ML server. The basic 
configuration comes with 128Mb SDRAM, PIII 1Ghz processor, Hot Plug drive 
cage, no RAID, 1 7200 rpm Pluggable Universal Ultra2 SCSI hard drive. Will 
this be okay to run FreeBSD with a pop3 and smtp server (about 50, 000 
e-mails a day)? Do I need RAID? Additional drives? Is there any other 
server that is generally better suited to FBSD out-of-box?

I know I have to check the Hardware Compatibility list, but I need to know 
if the Compaq is a good pick, and if it is not, any suggestions on which 
server I can comfortably use. I am a newbie to FreeBSD (and Unix in 
general). Another thing is I have a budget constraint so I'm looking for 
something that is not expensive.

Any suggestions are very welcome.

Kondie.


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9  5:48:42 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mgw1.MEIway.com (mgw1.meiway.com [212.73.210.75])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A91E37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 05:48:39 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from LConrad@Go2France.com)
Received: from sv.Go2France.com (sv.meiway.com [212.73.210.79])
	by mgw1.MEIway.com (Postfix Relay Hub) with ESMTP id 3F66F16B1B
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 15:00:10 +0100 (CET)
Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.0.20010309142935.05edabe0@mail.Go2France.com>
X-Sender: lconrad%Go2France.com@mail.Go2France.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:46:11 +0100
To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
From: Len Conrad <LConrad@Go2France.com>
Subject: Re: FreeBSD server
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010309110914.03be0140@pop3.malawi.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

 >The basic configuration comes with 128Mb SDRAM, PIII 1Ghz 
processor, Hot Plug drive cage, no RAID, 1 7200 rpm Pluggable 
Universal Ultra2 SCSI hard drive. Will this be okay to run FreeBSD 
with a pop3 and smtp server (about 50, 000 e-mails a day)?

That's only 1.5 mgs/sec for a 9 hour workday.  That machine is vast 
overkill if it's dedicated to smtp/pop services.

 > Do I need RAID?

not for such a small volume

 > Additional drives?

If you use ATA disk and think you will get bigger volumes, put in 2 
disks on separate controllers now, one for system + logging, the 
other for mailboxes and mail queue.

 >Another thing is I have a budget constraint so I'm looking for 
something that is not expensive.

Then build your own (so you can fix your own), rather than pay a 
brand name's marketing overheads and their expensive spare parts, esp 
in your part of the world.

Agai, you are seriously overbuying in CPU and disk0 for an SMTP/POP 
server.  A P200 could handle 1.5 msgs a second easily.  ie, save your 
money and use an old P200.  I shuder to think how much it costs buy 
such Compaq machine in Malawi.

>Any suggestions are very welcome.

I like postfix a lot for MTA.  Fast, easy to configure, table driven, 
"rich enough" in options and rock solid.

Len



http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : Binary for ISC BIND 8.2.3 for NT4 & W2K
http://IMGate.MEIway.com  : Build free, hi-perf, anti-spam mail gateways


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9  6:14:58 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4D537B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 06:14:52 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22863;
	Sat, 10 Mar 2001 00:14:17 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from bryden.apana.org.au(203.3.126.129), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdA22861; Sat Mar 10 00:14:09 2001
Message-ID: <001b01c0a8a3$5629f5e0$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>,
	"Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <003d01c0a85c$7955d620$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 00:15:01 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Nothing is trivial to the user who doesn't know everything an expert does,
and
particularly in the case of linux, the documentation is so poor that the
chances of
anyone stumbling across info on esoteric subjects is virtually nil.
Switching from
linux to FreeBSD solved most of the problems here anyway. None of our
systems
should need to be restarted from one upgrade til the next, however the
reliability of
the power supply in most parts of OZ is comparable to what I've heard of
California
(fair to dreadful). I know that we should have UPSes everywhere ... however
with
any non-profit organization the budget is always tight. I've been doing my
best to
institute changes aimed at improving the financial position but when you
have a bunch
of committees to contend with thats another exercise.

> However, this is just a default.  It is trivial to change on both system,
> and if you have Linux systems that are going to be in environments where
> they are going to be regularly restarting, then it's a lot easier to
> change the config to have the automounter mount the Linux filesystems
> synchronously.
>
> In any case, all of this is begging 2 very important questions:
>
> 1) Why don't you organize your systems to be resistant to this?
>
> 2) Why don't you correct the environment so the systems don't have to
> restart.
>
> As far as #1 is concerned, I manage a Usenet news server that is very
busy.
> About once every 2-3 months it gets a SCSI bus error and reboots itself.
> After the first one of these I changed the system so that when it does
> reboot itself, that there's not a problem.
>
> You see, the issue with uncontrolled shutdowns is this.  If the partition
> (note partition, not filesystem) is quiescent during a uncontrolled
> shutdown, when it is fsck'd during reboot, there won't be any corruption -
> and fsck will mark it clean and remount it.
>
> This leads to an obvious solution - you arrainge your filesystem mount
> points so that anything that is being written is NOT on a filesystem
> containing startup scripts, (typically in /etc) or on a partition that's
> automounted.
>
> For example, with FreeBSD, the default mount points are to put /etc and /
on
> the same partition.  Fine - but /tmp is created on /, and /tmp is usually
> going to be in use during an uncontrolled shutdown.
>
> What I did with my news server is /var is on it's own partition, and all
> logs in it are softlinked to another disk.  /tmp and /usr/tmp are also
> softlinked to this disk.  The filesystems on this disk are NOT
automounted.
>
> If the system crashes and reboots itself, then /, /var, and /usr are all
on
> partitions that are NEVER written to during normal operation, thus they
are
> always quiescent, and they always come back up with no problem.  I can
then
> Telnet into the system and manually run fsck on the other disks.  Granted,
> it's a nuisance because the log and temp directories are unavailable
during
> this limited maintainence mode, but the system won't deny me access.
>
> Once the rest of the disks are clean, I mount them, then restart syslogd
and
> the other programs that need to be started and away we go.  No need to be
> physically at the system to do all this, nor is sync/async mounting an
> issue.
>
> Now, as far as #2 is concerned, with the exception of my news server, none
> of my other servers ever have uncontrolled shutdowns.  This is because of
> several things.  First, all servers have their own UPS's and are plugged
> into the sense port of the UPS, and if the UPS goes onto battery for too
> long, the server does a controlled shutdown.  The servers and UPS's are
also
> all on remote reboot switches.  Secondly, if I find a flaky server I work
> with it until I fix it or scrap it.  I tolerate the news server because I
> know that the problem is a software driver bug and I have not yet gotten
> time to rebuild it and fix the bug.  (news servers typically take a long
> time to rebuild and tune)
>
>
> Ted Mittelstaedt                      tedm@toybox.placo.com
> Author of:          The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
> Book website:         http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com
>
>


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9  6:44:30 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEBCB37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 06:44:24 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22890;
	Sat, 10 Mar 2001 00:44:20 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from bryden.apana.org.au(203.3.126.129), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdG22888; Sat Mar 10 00:44:11 2001
Message-ID: <002301c0a8a7$882b0760$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: <bastill@sa.apana.org.au>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <20010308131205.A1029@okb.lv> <024301c0a7de$930db020$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <01030915094403.26742@PhD_1.testname.com.au>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 00:45:03 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

> So your organisation didn't have the money for a small UPS which had
> just enough energy on power failure on to run a script to power down
> gracefully, for each site?

Well now .... its a question of getting approval from at least the local (&
often the national )
committees, and given a few recent events the guy with the checkbook is
being fairly
careful :) I've been pushing for a UPS big enough to run at least the more
important
machines but haven't convinced enough of the other local committee people as
yet.
The present setup dates back well before my time anyway.

  Would have been MOST helpful, whatever the OS.  Especially in Queensland.
> I guess the cheap-but-risky "she'll be right" system wasn't YOUR
recommendation!

I know the value of the things .... where I live in the southern suburbs of
Brisbane we get short duration 'brownouts" virtually every day. Getting a
nice big 1200va UPS to run my FreeBSD gateway / LAN / 2 modems / etc cut my
Tel$tra phone account back quite substantially. For the benefit of those who
get "free" local calls ... Australians generally pay between 15c & 20c for
every local call, so the cost of running a permanent dialup modem link can
be considerable if you have poor phone lines & unreliable power supply (like
80% of people here)
>
> >The linux systems typically failed to
> > re-start automatically whereas FreeBSD ones do.
> >{[..] I'm not
> > aware of one instance of one of our FreeBSD systems needing re-install
> > after a power failure.
>
> To me this says super things about FreeBSD robustness, rather than bad
> things about any other OS.  Being a 'belt and braces' man myself, I'd
> not want to run remotes without UPS, regardless.

As I recall from a visit to the Apana SA POP last year, the building has its
own backup
power, so your systems may rely on that. I dunno that the power supply in SA
could be
anywhere near as unreliable as it is here ... almost getting to the stage
where businesses
need their own generator. Whatever,  theres no question that a UPS is
a_very_good_idea

>
> So far as the migration from Linux is concerned, I think it is a
> logical progression for the increasing number who are coming to Linux
> as a refuge from Windows.  Like me.  I wouldn't have known about
> FreeBSD if it hadn't been for Linux.
>
> I completely agree about the execrable Linux documentation.  The docs
> for FreeBSD are VERY good.  (Pedantic FreeBSD in particular <g>).

The reasons I wrote that were partly to stave off questions from local
newbies
who had the same problems I'd experienced with documentation generally, and
partly so I'd have readily accessible notes to refer to myself. Judging from
the
number of other "user-friendly" sites that exist now I'm not the only one
who
believes there is a need for something more explicit than the "official"
offerings.
Sites like freebsddiary.org / bsdvault.net / mostgraveconcern.com & the one
I
can't recall by resident lurker Rick Hammell are all invaluable resources.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Brian
>
> ********************************************************
> Dr Brian Astill  Visiting Research Fellow
> Flinders University Institute of International Education
> Bus 8201 3480     FAX 8449 9199
> bastill@sa.apana.org.au
> ********************************************************
>


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9  6:58:38 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from george.he.net (george.he.net [216.218.157.2])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C93737B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 06:58:36 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bill@wiliweld.com)
Received: from corten8.wiliweld.com (adsl-63-193-247-201.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.247.201]) by george.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with ESMTP id GAA25182 for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 06:58:35 -0800
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 06:55:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Schoolcraft <bill@wiliweld.com>
X-Sender:  <bill@corten8>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: About Unix (meeting someone's parents:)
In-Reply-To: <l03102804b6cd724c115d@[130.133.197.137]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.30.0103090652060.10006-100000@corten8>
System-ID: [en] (I; SunOS 5.8 i86pc)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

At Fri, 9 Mar 2001 it looks like Heiko Recktenwald composed:

uzs106->Yeah !
uzs106->
uzs106->>I have become a better Linux admin as a result of running *BSD, and
uzs106->>Solaris, and using HP-UX at the local college.
uzs106->
uzs106->Those little differences make one rethink ones own first decisions. Many
uzs106->ways leed to Rome...
uzs106->

............ I was a Machinist/Mechanic for over 25 years and
realized immediately that if I -->"ONLY"<-- worked on one type of
UNIX _engine_ I'd be limited (unix) Mechanic. One needs to be able
to "pop the hood" on any (unix) vehicle and be able to hold their
own weight.

--
Bill Schoolcraft
PO Box 210076                 -o)
San Francisco CA 94121         /\
"UNIX, A Way Of Life."        _\_v
http://forwardslashunix.com



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9  7: 8: 2 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB29237B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 07:07:57 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA22911;
	Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:00:30 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from bryden.apana.org.au(203.3.126.129), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdv22909; Sat Mar 10 01:00:25 2001
Message-ID: <002f01c0a8a9$cd0b8ec0$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Nugzar Nebieridze" <nugzar@mbg.com.ge>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <20010308131205.A1029@okb.lv> <024301c0a7de
Subject: Re: Re[2]: About Unix
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:01:18 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Don't tell me there is somewhere on the planet with worse power problems
than Queensland Australia !!!! I hear California is pretty bad but maybe the
problem is more widespread than that. Our problems with linux were a bit
more regular than twice in three years .... more like once a month.

I'm not aware of any recent linux improvements that make it a better server
O/S, however it would take something quite dramatic before I'd consider
installing linux again. Anything to do with workstation apps / GUIs etc are
totally
irrelevant to me.

> I agree that fs for freebsd is better. The kernel of FreeBSD is also
> writeen at higher level than Linux's, but the situation is rapidly
> changing. I'm now using FreeBSD as my internet server, but during 3
> years of using FreeBSD it also was stucked due to power fault and did
> not restarted automatically because of fs fault. it happened twice
> during these years maybe you consider that it is not often but anyway
> it happened.
>
> As for linux, I see the improvements that I do not see in FreeBSD.
>
> 1. Both systems need Journaling File Systems. (there are three
> projects for linux: reiserfs, xfs (SGI) and jfx (IBM)). I did not hear
> of any for FreeBSD.
>
> 2. I need good commercial SQL server for FreeBSD. (not MySQL, mSQL,
> PostgreSQL and so on...) May be there are
> some but did not find them and if you know where I can download them
> any information is appreciated. For linux I already downloaded Oracle
> SQL and Sybase SQL. There are also DB2 and Informix SQL-s.

Late versions of Oracle definitely work in FreeBSD .... I don't like Sybase
(too
similar to that dog of all databases, Microsoft SQL Server). I haven't used
DB2
or Informix recently, why bother when Oracle does everything properly ??
>
> 3. I also need clustering solutions for both of these systems.
> I heard about mosix for linux, what about BSD?

Dunno about that issue at all ..... if clustering isn't supported in BSD I'd
be running
SCO rather than linux.
>
> ----------
>
> I like BSD very much, but if situation does not change I think that
> I'll have to svitch to Debian GNU/Linux. Besides they added some
> functionality to their distribution like (for example automatic
> updating of software from security.debian.org). So when a security
> hole is found the system upgrades itself.
>
> As for dicumentation, for linux there are a lot of HOWTOs. Where can I
> find such documentation for FreeBSD? (only www.freebsddiary.org ???).
>
> Don't treat me wrong, but I like both FreeBSD and Linux. Both of them
> are stable, both of them are open source. But what I see is that Linux
> is developing faster for me that is very important.
>
> That was my 0.15
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9  7:22: 6 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2203237B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 07:22:02 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA22937;
	Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:21:51 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from bryden.apana.org.au(203.3.126.129), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdY22935; Sat Mar 10 01:21:45 2001
Message-ID: <00a501c0a8ac$c7bf05c0$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Brian Jennings" <thenetdm@yahoo.com>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <20010309020633.17397.qmail@web6204.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: backup
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:22:38 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Installing BSD on one drive & whatever else on another works 
fine. Its not as if hard drives are particularly expensive. Dunno
about linux but installing BSD from CD only takes 15 minutes
anyway unless you've got a lot more than just a basic install.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Jennings" <thenetdm@yahoo.com>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 12:06 PM
Subject: backup


> ok, sory to break from the bickering all day today (i
> thought it was the linux people that argued :)
> 
> I am setting up a P200MMX with a 15 gig hard drive to
> dual boot with FreeBSD and Red Hat 7, I have
> successfuly set it up 3 times as i screw one of the
> ops up in some way or another.
> My question is, once i have it set up is there a way
> to back up the drive so that it can be re-imaged?  Can
> i use Ghost?  where should i put the image?  is there
> a better way?  i know that working with it and trying
> different things i'm going to screw it up again.  any
> advice?  anyone?
> 
> sincerely,
> tired of installing and ready to play
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
> 


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9  7:59:26 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from web1106.mail.yahoo.com (web1106.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.126])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 28AF237B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 07:59:23 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from tperlin@yahoo.com)
Received: (qmail 3135 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Mar 2001 15:59:23 -0000
Message-ID: <20010309155923.3134.qmail@web1106.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [63.200.148.220] by web1106.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 07:59:23 PST
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 07:59:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Erlin <tperlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FreeBSD server
To: Kondie <kondwani@malawi.net>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010309110914.03be0140@pop3.malawi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

As I sit here reading this email in Yahoo, perhaps the
best known commercial use of FreeBSD, I notice the
"Powered by Compaq" logo at the top of the screen. 

If that's any indication, Compaq should be a good
choice.

--Tim
--- Kondie <kondwani@malawi.net> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am in the process of acquiring a hardware platform
> for hosting a mail 
> server. I am considering a Compaq Proliant ML
> server. The basic 
> configuration comes with 128Mb SDRAM, PIII 1Ghz
> processor, Hot Plug drive 
> cage, no RAID, 1 7200 rpm Pluggable Universal Ultra2
> SCSI hard drive. Will 
> this be okay to run FreeBSD with a pop3 and smtp
> server (about 50, 000 
> e-mails a day)? Do I need RAID? Additional drives?
> Is there any other 
> server that is generally better suited to FBSD
> out-of-box?
> 
> I know I have to check the Hardware Compatibility
> list, but I need to know 
> if the Compaq is a good pick, and if it is not, any
> suggestions on which 
> server I can comfortably use. I am a newbie to
> FreeBSD (and Unix in 
> general). Another thing is I have a budget
> constraint so I'm looking for 
> something that is not expensive.
> 
> Any suggestions are very welcome.
> 
> Kondie.
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of
> the message


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9 10:23:54 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3004537B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 10:23:50 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com)
Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com
          (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54)  with ESMTP id AAAC94;
          Fri, 9 Mar 2001 10:28:42 -0800
Message-ID: <3AA91FB3.F29A62BE@acuson.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 10:23:47 -0800
From: David Johnson <djohnson@acuson.com>
Organization: Acuson
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: youkin yang <yyqme@yahoo.com>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: freebsd2.2.6
References: <20010309051325.26837.qmail@web3903.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

youkin yang wrote:
> 
> Dear sir
> 
>     I need to install freebsd2.2.6, but I fail to find
> the release of that at
> ftp://ftp5.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD, I dont know which
> contents belong to freebsd2.2.6. So how can I download
> it?

Is there any particular reason you need that version? By the time you
patch in all the security and bug fixes, you might as well get a more
current version. The 4.x branch may still be too "cutting edge" for some
people, but the 3.x branch is still going.

David

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9 13:15:22 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01EFE37B72E
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 13:15:14 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24762;
	Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:15:02 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from bryden.apana.org.au(203.3.126.129), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdk24755; Sat Mar 10 07:14:58 2001
Message-ID: <011501c0a8de$200cf4e0$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>,
	"Peter" <fbsdq@yahoo.com>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <005f01c0a86d$e64420a0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
Subject: Re: About Unix
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:15:51 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

> You may not want to configure X but I'd suggest you install it.  Many
> packages have dependencies on the X11 libraries.
>
> Also, while I agree that there's little use for X _servers_ on servers,
> there's definitely a use for X clients.

Like what specifically ?? ..... I use GUI things like webmin & ntop in
several situations
but they don't need X. I can imagine that a remote X would maybe possibly be
useful
at times if the various configuration files had a GUI  ... some of the
database ones ?? ..
but the little I've seen of remote X applications has not been impressive
(apart from
the excellent VNC of course)



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9 13:52:29 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A46437B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 13:52:21 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: (from uucp@localhost)
	by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24812;
	Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:51:42 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
Received: from bryden.apana.org.au(203.3.126.129), claiming to be "roadrunner"
 via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdv24810; Sat Mar 10 07:51:37 2001
Message-ID: <015101c0a8e3$3e8f5fc0$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To: "Laurence Berland" <stuyman@confusion.net>
Cc: <lhsmith@cfl.rr.com>, "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>, <b.j.smith@ieee.org>,
	<thebs@theseus.com>, "Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> <01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> <20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <3AA79277.32455314@cfl.rr.com> <028b01c0a7e
Subject: Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:52:29 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

The situation here that resulted in a move of all systems previously running
linux over to BSD

(a) an all volunteer organization (few people to do stuff)
(b) remotely hosted systems (can take some days before anyone gets there)
(c) continual power failures (occupational hazard in parts of OZ)
(d) lack of UPS & inability to acquire such a beast (committees etc)
(e) repeated problems with linux O/Ses after power cuts (they just got badly
broken)

At this point items (a) to (d) are unchanged, all remote systems now have
some version of BSD,
and we no longer have a downtime issue. If people wish to argue about the
technicalities then so be it ... we don't have the problem anymore so thats
all that mattered here.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laurence Berland" <stuyman@confusion.net>
To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
Cc: <lhsmith@cfl.rr.com>; "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>;
<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; <b.j.smith@ieee.org>; <thebs@theseus.com>;
"Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking


> I'm not going to really get involved with this, but let me share a
> little anecdotal evidence.  A few times, just to see what would happen,
> I pulled the power cord for a power strip that contained not one, not
> two, not three, but ten Linux servers.  Nine came up without problems.
> The tenth needed a little help with the fsck.  I've done this sort of
> thing more than once, and I'd rate 1 in 10 as a reasonable rate.  Never
> did I need to reinstall.  FreeBSD had better results, 1 in 100 or so.
> Also, no reinstalls.  Both systems may need a reinstall on very very
> rare occasions, so rare I've never seen it happen.  You'd have to hose
> the system very badly.  It's all pretty reliable.  Let's not become the
> FUD spreaders here.
>
> Needing sleep, writing papers at 3 am, wishing I wasnt,
> Laurence
>
> http://www.isp.northwestern.edu/~laurence
>
> Doug Young wrote:
> >
> > My point remains .... our FreeBSD systems invariably recover after a
power
> > failure, the previous linux ones rarely did. Given the difficulty in
getting
> > to the remote systems thats more than sufficient justification for the
move
> > from linux to FreeBSD. We'd never consider running any form of Windows
on
> > remote systems ... we do have some Win2000 boxes but they are all kept
close
> > to home where they can get a hug when needed. In comparison the FreeSD
boxes
> > typically run for about a year before upgrade, the linux ones lasted
maybe
> > two months at best, and the (local) Win2000 systems probably get 6
months
> > between re-installs.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lourdes H. Smith" <lhsmith@cfl.rr.com>
> > To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
> > Cc: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>;
> > <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; <b.j.smith@ieee.org>;
<thebs@theseus.com>;
> > "Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
> > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 12:08 AM
> > Subject: Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
> >
> > > Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
> > >
> > > Lourdes' husband here --
> > >
> > > Okay Doug, you are so full of crap, my wife came to me with
> > > questions based on your misinformation.  That's sad.  Learn the
> > > systems and only talk about _what_you_know_!  I rebuke your comments
> > > below.  The key here is _technical_facts_.  Now if you want to talk
> > > about those, come to ELUG (http://www.elug.org).  We cater to all
> > > OSS (Open Source Software) users.
> > >
> > > Doug Young wrote:
> > > > Try the following on both a linux & a BSD system
> > > > setup two identical systems,one with linux & other with BSD
> > > > give them both a few jobs to do, then hit the "reset" button
> > > > (you do have power failures in Sweden don't you ??)
> > > > invariably the BSD system will recover with no damage but
> > > > the linux one will need a total re-install
> > >
> > > I have maintained over 100 production Linux systems over the years
> > > (since 1995 on corporate networks).  I have never, ever had to
> > > re-install.  Same goes for BSD (which I've used limitedly since 1995
> > > as well).  [ Side note:  I've been an NT administrator even longer
> > > (1992-1999), and re-installs are a fact of life (not as bad as Win9x
> > > -- but I find NTFS will destroy itself after 2-3 years of good use
> > > when it "assumes" a journal flush is good). ]
> > >
> > > Now I know you are _trying_ to "stress" the fact that most Linux
> > > distributions don't come with a "journaling filesystem", but the
> > > default, Linux Ext2 filesystem is quite a reliable filesystem,
> > > despite its simplicity.  In fact, of all the major UFS (UNIX
> > > Filesystems), it fragments the least (although fragmentation on any
> > > UFS not even close to being as bad as any Windows OS).
> > >
> > > > We did have exclusively linux in our servers but since the
changeover to
> > > > FreeBSD the uptimes have increased to the point where machines
> > > > generally keep going constantly from one upgrade til the next ...
> > usually
> > > > a year or so later. The Redhat / Slackware / Debian systems rarely
went
> > > > for a month before something or other broke. We do have the odd
Win2000
> > > > Server system (required for certain software applications) & their
> > uptime
> > > > is generally superior to linux ..... no comparison with BSD though.
> > >
> > > Everyone's going to have their own comments.  My main Linux-based
> > > Samba-NFS file server (which also does mail, CVS and everything else
> > > under the sun) for over 50 NT, Solaris and Linux clients is running
> > > RedHat 6.2 with kernel 2.2.16+Ext3+NFS3.  Crash recovery times are
> > > <<5 minutes -- but I've only seen that happen once.  It stays up
> > > forever (until stupid Florida Power goes down).
> > >
> > > "Denis J. Cirulis" wrote:
> > > > I don't want to claim BSD or Linux, I must say I'm using both BSD
> > > > and Linux about 5 years.
> > >
> > > Same boat.  No bigotry.
> > >
> > > > You're wrong about power failures: first you can switch to
> > > > ReiserFS and after power failure you wouldn't be asked to do
> > > > fsck. Journaling FS rocks, but I haven't seen any for FreeBSD.
> > >
> > > ReiserFS has issues as an NFS server.  Regardless, I have extensive
> > > knowledge of Ext3 on *PRODUCTION* systems.  I'm also moving into
> > > using XFS (I repackage their kernels from CVS in RPM format) since
> > > Ext3 doesn't run on 2.4.  XFS is a pretty advanced system.
> > >
> > > I recently did a presentation on Linux JFS options (focus on Ext3
> > > and XFS).  You can find it here:
> > >
> > >
http://www.smithconcepts.com/files/presentations/ELUG_JFS_2001Mar05a.pdf
> > >
> > > > One I must say that *BSD under heavy load are more powerfull.
> > >
> > > That's the power of its mature VM and scheduler systems.  Linux is
> > > getting there.  Linux 2.4 really improves _a_lot_.  Linus is getting
> > > good at balancing simplicity and single-user performance against
> > > server/multiuser performance.
> > >
> > > -- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
> > >    Engineering/SysAdmin, Theseus Logic, Inc.
> > >    Contributing Author, "Samba Unleashed"
> > >    [ Note:  One chapter was the "Samba Unleashed" appendix on BSD
> > > ;-P ]
> > >
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>
> --
> Laurence Berland
> Intern, Flooz.com
> Northwestern '04
> stuyman@confusion.net
> http://www.isp.northwestern.edu/~laurence
>
> "The world has turned and left me here"
>


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar  9 14:11:31 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from hotmail.com (f215.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.19.215])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9614137B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 14:11:22 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from samanthahamon@hotmail.com)
Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
	 Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:11:21 -0800
Received: from 216.228.161.21 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;	Fri, 09 Mar 2001 22:11:21 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [216.228.161.21]
From: "Samantha Hamon" <samanthahamon@hotmail.com>
To: dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au, stuyman@confusion.net
Cc: lhsmith@cfl.rr.com, jeho5791@student.uu.se,
	freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, b.j.smith@ieee.org, thebs@theseus.com,
	monster@okb.lv
Subject: Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 22:11:21 -0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <F2158ARf3sllNY30kkZ00004427@hotmail.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2001 22:11:21.0819 (UTC) FILETIME=[DF9142B0:01C0A8E5]
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

ya, ya, ya... threads like this make me soooo "thankful" I am still on this 
valuable mailing list.  Thanks.


>From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
>To: "Laurence Berland" <stuyman@confusion.net>
>CC: <lhsmith@cfl.rr.com>, "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,   
><freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>, <b.j.smith@ieee.org>, <thebs@theseus.com>,   
>"Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
>Subject: Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
>Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:52:29 +1000
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119])by 
>mail.bendnet.com (8.11.2/8.11.2/BendNet) with ESMTP id f29LqWf08690for 
><samantha@bendnet.com>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:52:32 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18])by 
>mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPid 7D7F0557BA; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 
>13:52:18 -0800 (PST)(envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG)
>Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538)id 46FE537B719; Fri, 
>  9 Mar 2001 13:52:29 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])by hub.freebsd.org 
>(Postfix) with SMTPid 32B7B2E8166; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 13:52:29 -0800 
>(PST)(envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies)
>Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:52:29 
>-0800
>Received: from goblin.apana.org.au (goblin.apana.org.au [203.3.126.3])by 
>hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A46437B718for 
><freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Fri,  9 Mar 2001 13:52:21 -0800 
>(PST)(envelope-from dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
>Received: (from uucp@localhost)by goblin.apana.org.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id 
>HAA24812;Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:51:42 +1000 (EST)(envelope-from 
>dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au)
>Received: from bryden.apana.org.au(203.3.126.129), claiming to be 
>"roadrunner" via SMTP by goblin.apana.org.au, id smtpdv24810; Sat Mar 10 
>07:51:37 2001
>Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
>Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
>Message-ID: <015101c0a8e3$3e8f5fc0$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
>References: <OFA420CC63.6AEAEDB6-ON87256A08.006994B1@smed.com> 
><01030800251100.00557@r55h47.res.gatech.edu> 
><20010308115639.A4298@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> 
><022801c0a7c0$024f8860$847e03cb@apana.org.au> 
><3AA79277.32455314@cfl.rr.com> <028b01c0a7e
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
>Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
>X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
>Precedence: bulk
>Status:
>
>The situation here that resulted in a move of all systems previously 
>running
>linux over to BSD
>
>(a) an all volunteer organization (few people to do stuff)
>(b) remotely hosted systems (can take some days before anyone gets there)
>(c) continual power failures (occupational hazard in parts of OZ)
>(d) lack of UPS & inability to acquire such a beast (committees etc)
>(e) repeated problems with linux O/Ses after power cuts (they just got 
>badly
>broken)
>
>At this point items (a) to (d) are unchanged, all remote systems now have
>some version of BSD,
>and we no longer have a downtime issue. If people wish to argue about the
>technicalities then so be it ... we don't have the problem anymore so thats
>all that mattered here.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Laurence Berland" <stuyman@confusion.net>
>To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
>Cc: <lhsmith@cfl.rr.com>; "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>;
><freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; <b.j.smith@ieee.org>; <thebs@theseus.com>;
>"Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
>Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 6:47 PM
>Subject: Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
>
>
> > I'm not going to really get involved with this, but let me share a
> > little anecdotal evidence.  A few times, just to see what would happen,
> > I pulled the power cord for a power strip that contained not one, not
> > two, not three, but ten Linux servers.  Nine came up without problems.
> > The tenth needed a little help with the fsck.  I've done this sort of
> > thing more than once, and I'd rate 1 in 10 as a reasonable rate.  Never
> > did I need to reinstall.  FreeBSD had better results, 1 in 100 or so.
> > Also, no reinstalls.  Both systems may need a reinstall on very very
> > rare occasions, so rare I've never seen it happen.  You'd have to hose
> > the system very badly.  It's all pretty reliable.  Let's not become the
> > FUD spreaders here.
> >
> > Needing sleep, writing papers at 3 am, wishing I wasnt,
> > Laurence
> >
> > http://www.isp.northwestern.edu/~laurence
> >
> > Doug Young wrote:
> > >
> > > My point remains .... our FreeBSD systems invariably recover after a
>power
> > > failure, the previous linux ones rarely did. Given the difficulty in
>getting
> > > to the remote systems thats more than sufficient justification for the
>move
> > > from linux to FreeBSD. We'd never consider running any form of Windows
>on
> > > remote systems ... we do have some Win2000 boxes but they are all kept
>close
> > > to home where they can get a hug when needed. In comparison the FreeSD
>boxes
> > > typically run for about a year before upgrade, the linux ones lasted
>maybe
> > > two months at best, and the (local) Win2000 systems probably get 6
>months
> > > between re-installs.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Lourdes H. Smith" <lhsmith@cfl.rr.com>
> > > To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
> > > Cc: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>;
> > > <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; <b.j.smith@ieee.org>;
><thebs@theseus.com>;
> > > "Denis J. Cirulis" <monster@okb.lv>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 12:08 AM
> > > Subject: Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
> > >
> > > > Re: About Unix <- Doug needs a good rebuking
> > > >
> > > > Lourdes' husband here --
> > > >
> > > > Okay Doug, you are so full of crap, my wife came to me with
> > > > questions based on your misinformation.  That's sad.  Learn the
> > > > systems and only talk about _what_you_know_!  I rebuke your comments
> > > > below.  The key here is _technical_facts_.  Now if you want to talk
> > > > about those, come to ELUG (http://www.elug.org).  We cater to all
> > > > OSS (Open Source Software) users.
> > > >
> > > > Doug Young wrote:
> > > > > Try the following on both a linux & a BSD system
> > > > > setup two identical systems,one with linux & other with BSD
> > > > > give them both a few jobs to do, then hit the "reset" button
> > > > > (you do have power failures in Sweden don't you ??)
> > > > > invariably the BSD system will recover with no damage but
> > > > > the linux one will need a total re-install
> > > >
> > > > I have maintained over 100 production Linux systems over the years
> > > > (since 1995 on corporate networks).  I have never, ever had to
> > > > re-install.  Same goes for BSD (which I've used limitedly since 1995
> > > > as well).  [ Side note:  I've been an NT administrator even longer
> > > > (1992-1999), and re-installs are a fact of life (not as bad as Win9x
> > > > -- but I find NTFS will destroy itself after 2-3 years of good use
> > > > when it "assumes" a journal flush is good). ]
> > > >
> > > > Now I know you are _trying_ to "stress" the fact that most Linux
> > > > distributions don't come with a "journaling filesystem", but the
> > > > default, Linux Ext2 filesystem is quite a reliable filesystem,
> > > > despite its simplicity.  In fact, of all the major UFS (UNIX
> > > > Filesystems), it fragments the least (although fragmentation on any
> > > > UFS not even close to being as bad as any Windows OS).
> > > >
> > > > > We did have exclusively linux in our servers but since the
>changeover to
> > > > > FreeBSD the uptimes have increased to the point where machines
> > > > > generally keep going constantly from one upgrade til the next ...
> > > usually
> > > > > a year or so later. The Redhat / Slackware / Debian systems rarely
>went
> > > > > for a month before something or other broke. We do have the odd
>Win2000
> > > > > Server system (required for certain software applications) & their
> > > uptime
> > > > > is generally superior to linux ..... no comparison with BSD 
>though.
> > > >
> > > > Everyone's going to have their own comments.  My main Linux-based
> > > > Samba-NFS file server (which also does mail, CVS and everything else
> > > > under the sun) for over 50 NT, Solaris and Linux clients is running
> > > > RedHat 6.2 with kernel 2.2.16+Ext3+NFS3.  Crash recovery times are
> > > > <<5 minutes -- but I've only seen that happen once.  It stays up
> > > > forever (until stupid Florida Power goes down).
> > > >
> > > > "Denis J. Cirulis" wrote:
> > > > > I don't want to claim BSD or Linux, I must say I'm using both BSD
> > > > > and Linux about 5 years.
> > > >
> > > > Same boat.  No bigotry.
> > > >
> > > > > You're wrong about power failures: first you can switch to
> > > > > ReiserFS and after power failure you wouldn't be asked to do
> > > > > fsck. Journaling FS rocks, but I haven't seen any for FreeBSD.
> > > >
> > > > ReiserFS has issues as an NFS server.  Regardless, I have extensive
> > > > knowledge of Ext3 on *PRODUCTION* systems.  I'm also moving into
> > > > using XFS (I repackage their kernels from CVS in RPM format) since
> > > > Ext3 doesn't run on 2.4.  XFS is a pretty advanced system.
> > > >
> > > > I recently did a presentation on Linux JFS options (focus on Ext3
> > > > and XFS).  You can find it here:
> > > >
> > > >
>http://www.smithconcepts.com/files/presentations/ELUG_JFS_2001Mar05a.pdf
> > > >
> > > > > One I must say that *BSD under heavy load are more powerfull.
> > > >
> > > > That's the power of its mature VM and scheduler systems.  Linux is
> > > > getting there.  Linux 2.4 really improves _a_lot_.  Linus is getting
> > > > good at balancing simplicity and single-user performance against
> > > > server/multiuser performance.
> > > >
> > > > -- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
> > > >    Engineering/SysAdmin, Theseus Logic, Inc.
> > > >    Contributing Author, "Samba Unleashed"
> > > >    [ Note:  One chapter was the "Samba Unleashed" appendix on BSD
> > > > ;-P ]
> > > >
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
> >
> > --
> > Laurence Berland
> > Intern, Flooz.com
> > Northwestern '04
> > stuyman@confusion.net
> > http://www.isp.northwestern.edu/~laurence
> >
> > "The world has turned and left me here"
> >
>
>
>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
>with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10  1:21:43 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from web3902.mail.yahoo.com (web3902.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.203.198])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8DFAE37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:21:42 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from yyqme@yahoo.com)
Message-ID: <20010310092142.12331.qmail@web3902.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [202.107.220.146] by web3902.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:21:42 PST
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:21:42 -0800 (PST)
From: youkin yang <yyqme@yahoo.com>
Subject: Help!!
To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Dear Sir

     From FAQ, freebsd2.2.6 may be obtained from
ftpx.freebsd.org/pub/freebsd. After browsing the
contents listed there, I found only 2.2-stable may be
possible, but I don't know where to get boot.flp and
how to specify its version with 2.2.6? Would you
please tell about that?  Thank you very much.

    Sincerely

                                 Youkee


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10  1:59:12 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from audrey.enst-bretagne.fr (audrey.enst-bretagne.fr [192.108.115.9])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E65EC37B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:59:08 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jeho5791@student.uu.se)
Received: from resel.enst-bretagne.fr (root@maisel-gw.enst-bretagne.fr [192.44.76.8])
	by audrey.enst-bretagne.fr (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f2A9x7l27521
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:59:07 +0100
Received: from strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr (strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr [172.16.19.83])
	by resel.enst-bretagne.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id KAA12752
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:59:03 +0100
Received: by strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:03:37 +0100
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:03:37 +0100
From: Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
To: FreeBSD-newbies <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>
Subject: Enough is enough (About Unix)
Message-ID: <20010310110336.A8589@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD-newbies <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about Linux/FreeBSD.
This thread gave me some valuable insights. Perhaps it's time to call it
quits, though.

The conclusion I will draw from this is to keep using both. Hope that
doesn't upset anyone.

Now, I have have yet another small question: should I use Emacs or Vi
for editing?

Sorry, that was a joke.

Jesper

-- 
                            "But how can one be warm alone?"

Jesper Holmberg			        jeho5791@student.uu.se

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10  2: 5:50 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from syncopation-01.iinet.net.au (syncopation-01.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.37])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4BB3F37B71B
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:05:31 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from katinka@magestower.com)
Received: (qmail 21390 invoked by uid 666); 10 Mar 2001 10:15:41 -0000
Received: from opera.iinet.net.au (HELO wskatinka) (203.59.24.144)
  by 0 with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 10:15:41 -0000
Message-ID: <030401c0a946$d22c5720$fe00a8c0@kat.lan>
From: "Kathy Quinlan" <katinka@magestower.com>
To: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
Cc: <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>
References: <20010310110336.A8589@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
Subject: Re: Enough is enough (About Unix)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 17:45:18 +0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
To: "FreeBSD-newbies" <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 6:03 PM
Subject: Enough is enough (About Unix)


> Now, I have have yet another small question: should I use Emacs or Vi
> for editing?
Lol

I use ee much easier 
with vi I have to keep referring to the man page and it is a pain

regards,

Kat (a newbie who has learnt a lot administering a home network)



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10  2:10:33 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from youareata.org (youareata.org [209.99.47.122])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FBC337B71B
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:10:30 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from mikie@youareata.org)
Received: (from mikie@localhost)
	by youareata.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f2AA9wC16234;
	Sat, 10 Mar 2001 04:09:58 -0600 (CST)
	(envelope-from mikie)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 04:09:57 -0600
From: Mike Chavez <mikie@youareata.org>
To: Kathy Quinlan <katinka@magestower.com>
Cc: Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Enough is enough (About Unix)
Message-ID: <20010310040957.A192@youareata.org>
Reply-To: Mike Chavez <mikie@youareata.org>
References: <20010310110336.A8589@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <030401c0a946$d22c5720$fe00a8c0@kat.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
In-Reply-To: <030401c0a946$d22c5720$fe00a8c0@kat.lan>; from katinka@magestower.com on Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 05:45:18PM +0800
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Hey guys, im verry new to this group. I must say that Pico is VERRY easy to learn
and use. Im a VI(M) guy myslef btw.
I dont understand why you have to keep looking the man page to use vi.
You only need to remember a couple important commands =P
mc.

-Mike@youareata.org



On Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 05:45:18PM +0800, Kathy Quinlan wrote:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
To: "FreeBSD-newbies" <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 6:03 PM
Subject: Enough is enough (About Unix)


> Now, I have have yet another small question: should I use Emacs or Vi
> for editing?
Lol

I use ee much easier 
with vi I have to keep referring to the man page and it is a pain

regards,

Kat (a newbie who has learnt a lot administering a home network)



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10  2:12:15 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from syncopation-01.iinet.net.au (syncopation-01.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.37])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0EEA437B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:12:12 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from katinka@magestower.com)
Received: (qmail 23256 invoked by uid 666); 10 Mar 2001 10:22:23 -0000
Received: from opera.iinet.net.au (HELO wskatinka) (203.59.24.144)
  by 0 with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 10:22:23 -0000
Message-ID: <033501c0a947$bd6d4140$fe00a8c0@kat.lan>
From: "Kathy Quinlan" <katinka@magestower.com>
To: "Mike Chavez" <mikie@youareata.org>
Cc: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <20010310110336.A8589@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <030401c0a946$d22c5720$fe00a8c0@kat.lan> <20010310040957.A192@youareata.org>
Subject: Re: Enough is enough (About Unix)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 17:51:53 +0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

yeah I know but as ee is so much easier I do not use it, and only use it
when I have to eg chsh and that is not very often.

Kat.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chavez" <mikie@youareata.org>
To: "Kathy Quinlan" <katinka@magestower.com>
Cc: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>;
<freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: Enough is enough (About Unix)


> Hey guys, im verry new to this group. I must say that Pico is VERRY easy
to learn
> and use. Im a VI(M) guy myslef btw.
> I dont understand why you have to keep looking the man page to use vi.
> You only need to remember a couple important commands =P
> mc.
>
> -Mike@youareata.org
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 05:45:18PM +0800, Kathy Quinlan wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
> To: "FreeBSD-newbies" <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 6:03 PM
> Subject: Enough is enough (About Unix)
>
>
> > Now, I have have yet another small question: should I use Emacs or Vi
> > for editing?
> Lol
>
> I use ee much easier
> with vi I have to keep referring to the man page and it is a pain
>
> regards,
>
> Kat (a newbie who has learnt a lot administering a home network)
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10  2:50:38 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E0537B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:50:35 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com)
Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154])
	by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f2AAoQN06461;
	Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:50:27 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com)
From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
To: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	"FreeBSD-newbies" <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: Enough is enough (About Unix)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:50:26 -0800
Message-ID: <00e101c0a94f$ea6b8780$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
In-Reply-To: <20010310110336.A8589@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0
Importance: Normal
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
>[mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Jesper Holmberg
>
>Now, I have have yet another small question: should I use Emacs or Vi
>for editing?
>

Use vi - if you learn it then it will screw with the heads of anyone
watching you edit files over your shoulder. :-)

>Sorry, that was a joke.
>

There's an excellent version of vi that runs under MS-DOS called Calvin
when I was doing more support of older DOS systems years ago I used this
editor exclusively.  It was small enough to fit on a boot floppy and
could edit files of any size - hundreds and hundreds of megabytes in
size, actually.  It helped me greatly to use it daily, and vi is the one
editor that I've found that has been ported to just about every
operating system.  Even OS/2 has a version.

Whatever editor you do use, though, make absolutley sure that the
editor doesen't replace tabs with spaces, and also get very familiar
with how to recognize how the editor represents trailing spaces
on lines.

Ted Mittelstaedt                      tedm@toybox.placo.com
Author of:          The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
Book website:         http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10  2:56:29 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from audrey.enst-bretagne.fr (audrey.enst-bretagne.fr [192.108.115.9])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE12537B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:56:25 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from jeho5791@student.uu.se)
Received: from resel.enst-bretagne.fr (root@maisel-gw.enst-bretagne.fr [192.44.76.8])
	by audrey.enst-bretagne.fr (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f2AAuOl33954
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:56:24 +0100
Received: from strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr (strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr [172.16.19.83])
	by resel.enst-bretagne.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id LAA17517
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:56:24 +0100
Received: by strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:00:58 +0100
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:00:58 +0100
From: Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
To: FreeBSD-newbies <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Enough is enough (About Unix)
Message-ID: <20010310120057.B8589@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD-newbies <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <20010310110336.A8589@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <00e101c0a94f$ea6b8780$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
In-Reply-To: <00e101c0a94f$ea6b8780$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>; from tedm@toybox.placo.com on Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:50:26AM -0800
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org



* On Saturday, March 10, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> Whatever editor you do use, though, make absolutley sure that the
> editor doesen't replace tabs with spaces,

Why is that important?

Jesper

-- 
                            "But how can one be warm alone?"

Jesper Holmberg			        jeho5791@student.uu.se

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10  4: 8:24 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from vimutti.welearn.com.au (vimutti.welearn.com.au [203.35.200.144])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36DA537B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 04:08:20 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sue@vimutti.welearn.com.au)
Received: (from sue@localhost)
	by vimutti.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07574;
	Sat, 10 Mar 2001 23:05:53 +1100 (EST)
	(envelope-from sue)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 23:05:52 +1100
From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au>
To: Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
Cc: Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	FreeBSD-newbies <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Enough is enough (About Unix)
Message-ID: <20010310230552.A7530@welearn.com.au>
References: <20010310110336.A8589@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr> <00e101c0a94f$ea6b8780$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i
In-Reply-To: <00e101c0a94f$ea6b8780$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>; from tedm@toybox.placo.com on Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:50:26AM -0800
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

On Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 02:50:26AM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
> >[mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Jesper Holmberg
> >
> >Now, I have have yet another small question: should I use Emacs or Vi
> >for editing?
> >
> 
> Use vi - if you learn it then it will screw with the heads of anyone
> watching you edit files over your shoulder. :-)

Nah, ed is much much better for that :-) You can also use ed on any
type of unix system when you can't use vi because the filesystem it's
on can't be mounted (due to some problem that you need a text editor
to fix... Catch22). But mostly, proficient use of ed will not fail to
impress any observer, even the unix experts.

For everything you ever wanted to know to help you decide which text
editor to spend your life with but were afraid to ask, look at
http://www.daemonnews.org/199810/editing.html
Emacs and vi both get a mention.

If you really think ed is worth learning, you can follow the link to
"a short introduction to ed". That ed tutorial might change your mind...
or your life :-)




To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10  5:32:24 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C5937B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 05:32:15 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au)
Received: (from sue@localhost)
	by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17926
	for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:30:15 +1100 (EST)
	(envelope-from sue)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:30:15 +1100 (EST)
From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au>
Message-Id: <200103100130.MAA17926@phoenix.welearn.com.au>
To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org


                         FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit
                                       
   (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list.
   It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/)
   
   FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about
   installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests
   are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions.
   
   FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to
   questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies.
   
   FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and
   covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt
   with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on
   our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how
   to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to
   use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories,
   moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the
   FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to
   freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are
   doing the same things that we do as newbies.
   
   One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find
   help when we need it. Here are some suggestions:
   
When something doesn't work the way you expect

    1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at
       http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and
       security advisories.
    2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at
       http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html
    3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of
       `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question
       to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG.
       
Mailing lists

   When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only
   one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG.
   FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as
   more general and advanced questions.
   
   You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a
   question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you
   personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and
   followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them
   different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to
   freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the
   recent questions and their answers.
   
   Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at
   http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer
   FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when
   they get questions which are difficult to understand.
   http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too.
   
   If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and
   ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to
   the support mailing list.
   
   Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing
   list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might
   get the answer right away. It's always worth trying.
   
   Other mailing lists
   (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-CHARTERS)
   cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll
   need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's
   probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for
   advice about where to post a more specialised question.
   
   FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional
   announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick
   Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too.
   
Manuals

   You'll always be expected to show that you have made some effort to
   use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not
   always as easy as it sounds!
   
   If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a
   brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need,
   always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you
   do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction.
   
   Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is
   encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at
   http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html
   
Other resources

   A resource list is available at
   http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and
   inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It
   includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web
   pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a
   suggestion for good material to be included, please write to
   freebsd-newbies and tell us about it.
   
But I have seen people asking questions here!

   It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a
   mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from
   time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't
   belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose
   job it is to sort these problems out privately.
   
   The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It
   is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies
   so we all make mistakes. That's OK.
   
   One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions,
   believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies,
   not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the
   situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to
   redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently.
   There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either.
   
   So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions
   as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies
   can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on
   our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not
   allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the
   mistakes that we need to make in order to learn.
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: 
   Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
   with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. 
   
   Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list.
     _________________________________________________________________

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10  6:54:39 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from lite.osi.gda.pl (serwer.osi.gda.pl [213.25.180.210])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 824B937B719
	for <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 06:54:27 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from tatsu@rpg.pl)
Received: from ip035.osi ([192.168.1.35] helo=moesha)
	by lite.osi.gda.pl with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian))
	id 14bkku-0001iS-00
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 15:54:04 +0100
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 15:53:19 +0100
From: Tatsu <tatsu@rpg.pl>
X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091
Reply-To: Tatsu <tatsu@rpg.pl>
Organization: The Acolyte of Brethren
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Message-ID: <65264625931.20010310155319@rpg.pl>
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Installation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Hello ,

  Dont know if its the right list but I want to hear your opinion.
  I want to learn how to make a FreeBSD server to work :
  -install all services from the begining to end
  -install all programs etc.
  So what kind of installation should I choose ?
  I dont want to have any sandmail working, ftp etc. nothing just pure
  system no services...
  Its a bad habbit but I want to do like in windows :
  I get nearly pure system ( i dont count IE, WordPad etc. ) and then
  install all others programs.
  Or maybe thats not a good idea ?

-- 
P.S.Sorry but my english is poor :(

 Tatsu                          mailto:tatsu@rpg.pl



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10  9:21: 3 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from george.he.net (george.he.net [216.218.157.2])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A406A37B718
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:20:56 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from bill@wiliweld.com)
Received: from corten8.wiliweld.com (adsl-63-193-247-201.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.247.201]) by george.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA28351; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:20:51 -0800
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:18:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Schoolcraft <bill@wiliweld.com>
X-Sender:  <bill@corten8>
To: Jesper Holmberg <jeho5791@student.uu.se>
Cc: FreeBSD-newbies <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Enough is enough (emacs vs vi)
In-Reply-To: <20010310110336.A8589@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.30.0103100913330.10006-100000@corten8>
System-ID: [en] (I; SunOS 5.8 i86pc)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

At Sat, 10 Mar 2001 it looks like Jesper Holmberg composed:

jeho57->Now, I have have yet another small question: should I use Emacs or Vi
jeho57->for editing?
jeho57->
jeho57->Sorry, that was a joke.
jeho57->

<flame_proof>
............. From day one I was told I may eventually like emacs,
but I'd better learn vi for you may be out trouble shooting a
machine that is OFF_LINE and it may not have emacs installed but
you can count on vi being in all UNIX machines 99.9% of the time.

I've been using Unix type OS's for a while (1996) and have never
used emacs yet. Life with all the Unix's is difficult enough and I
have a motto of "I pick and choose my own battles...." and vi is a
battle enough.

When I become a "vi pro" if there is such a thing, then I might
venture towards emacs.
</flame_proof>

--
Bill Schoolcraft
PO Box 210076                 -o)
San Francisco CA 94121         /\
"UNIX, A Way Of Life."        _\_v
http://forwardslashunix.com



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10 13: 1:14 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from web13104.mail.yahoo.com (web13104.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.149])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 709A737B719
	for <newbies@freebsd.org>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:01:13 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from reddish41@yahoo.com)
Message-ID: <20010310210113.30631.qmail@web13104.mail.yahoo.com>
Received: from [202.137.2.145] by web13104.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:01:13 PST
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:01:13 -0800 (PST)
From: ardi <reddish41@yahoo.com>
Subject: subscribe
To: newbies@freebsd.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

 
 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10 14:46:22 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BA8737B74D
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:46:16 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com)
Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154])
	by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f2AMkBN09925;
	Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:46:13 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com)
From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
To: "Jesper Holmberg" <jeho5791@student.uu.se>,
	"FreeBSD-newbies" <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: Enough is enough (About Unix)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:46:11 -0800
Message-ID: <001201c0a9b3$e7b96160$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
In-Reply-To: <20010310120057.B8589@strindberg.maisel.enst-bretagne.fr>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0
Importance: Normal
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

Because many configuration files, like sendmail.cf and bind
zone files, depend on those tabs.  If your editor replaces
the tabs with spaces then those files will be screwed.

The traditional UNIX editors all understand this but I
am a little wary of screen editors like ee as it encourages
people to arrow around and there doesen't seem to be any
indication by the program where the tabs are.

Ted Mittelstaedt                      tedm@toybox.placo.com
Author of:          The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
Book website:         http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com


>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
>[mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Jesper Holmberg
>Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 3:01 AM
>To: FreeBSD-newbies
>Subject: Re: Enough is enough (About Unix)
>
>
>
>
>* On Saturday, March 10, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>> Whatever editor you do use, though, make absolutley sure that the
>> editor doesen't replace tabs with spaces,
>
>Why is that important?
>
>Jesper
>
>-- 
>                            "But how can one be warm alone?"
>
>Jesper Holmberg			        jeho5791@student.uu.se
>
>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
>with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>

To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message


From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 10 23:12:51 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Received: from smtp.sunflower.com (smtp.sunflower.com [24.124.0.137])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C33437B71A
	for <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 23:12:48 -0800 (PST)
	(envelope-from treznor@sunflower.com)
Received: from treznor (dv016s59.lawrence.ks.us [24.124.59.16])
	by smtp.sunflower.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA19222;
	Sun, 11 Mar 2001 01:12:34 -0600
Message-ID: <000d01c0a9f9$d41a0600$103b7c18@palisor.yi.org>
From: "Tyler K McGeorge" <treznor@sunflower.com>
To: "Tatsu" <tatsu@rpg.pl>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <65264625931.20010310155319@rpg.pl>
Subject: Re: Installation
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 01:06:43 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Tatsu <tatsu@rpg.pl>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 8:53 AM
Subject: Installation


|   I want to learn how to make a FreeBSD server to work :

Don't we all.

|   I dont want to have any sandmail working, ftp etc. nothing just pure
|   system no services...

Sendmail is an intergral part of the system. Usually the only reason
you would ever get rid of sendmail would be to replace it with a
version from a different mail daemon.

|   Or maybe thats not a good idea ?

Good and bad are rough subjects when it comes to things like this.
It would be a very valuable experience, but chances are, it would
take far more knowledge than you probably already have about
FreeBSD. You would most likely become confused, lost and
discouraged. I've been running FreeBSD for a little over a year now
and I'm just now getting around to customizing my kernal (oi, spare
time is sparse)


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message