From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 18 17:58:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from intrigue.willinet.net (intrigue.willinet.net [198.49.30.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C38537B71A for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 17:58:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lute@willinet.net) Received: (qmail 31834 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 19:58:20 -0600 Received: from ps22sux.willinet.net (HELO gomer) (205.163.104.23) by intrigue.willinet.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 19:58:20 -0600 Received: from lute by gomer with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14eosy-0000QH-00 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:55:04 -0600 Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:55:04 -0600 From: Lute Mullenix To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Just getting started Message-ID: <20010318195504.C1601@willinet.net> Reply-To: lute@willinet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Spam-Rating: intrigue.willinet.net 1.6.2 0/0/N Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I'm just getting started with FreeBSD, so am going to have a bunch of questions in the near future. I have just installed FreeBSD 4.1.1 on my 486 test machine, and so far, so good. The installation was done from a CD that my brother sent me, and I plan on ordering a CD of 4.2 in the next couple of days. The first things that I will be wanting to get done are, learning how to install apps that I didn't get installed with the system, (off the CD, and online) getting the system configured to go online (e-mail, and web browsing), and getting my printer to work. I do have a couple of questions to start off with though. First on boot up I get a message about boot sector write, possible virus. This being a fresh install off the CD I figure there isn't a virus, so I just tell it to continue. How can I make it stop giving me this warning? Second, the install hangs for a long time when it gets to the part of: starting standard daemons: inetd cron sendmail Is that normal? I'm currently running Linux, so am hoping that the switch to FreeBSD will not be too big of a pain. I am not going to get too involved with this install, want to wait till I get the 4.2 CD. After checking out the web site a few times, I don't see any reason why FreeBSD can't be used as my only OS, it seems to have all the ports that are needed to have a completely functioning system, and that is what I hope to accomplish. I do have one hang-up though, it must be all native FreeBSD code apps. No Linux binarys. Don't foresee a problem there though since in going through the web site, it seems my most used stuff has been ported, the exception being Netscape. Don't really like Mozilla at this point, but may have to learn to live with it. Well that's sort of an intro as to what I aim to get done, hope to have a long and happy future with FreeBSD. -- >Lute< Hey! It happens. Well it does... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Mar 18 20:59: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from cr300278-a.flfrd1.on.wave.home.com (cr300278-a.flfrd1.on.wave.home.com [24.43.138.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E090C37B718 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:59:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeff@tabcrawler.com) From: "Jeff Doucette" Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:52:16 -0600 X-Mailer: STMP Sender To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Hey Message-Id: <20010319045900.E090C37B718@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey Guys, I have an auction on Dell Poweredge Ram, low price: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1222481574 Also, if you need PC-133 Infineon Ram, I sell it for $52.00 Have a great day, try not to work too hard..:) -Jeff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 19 8:39: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from femail1.rdc1.on.home.com (femail1.rdc1.on.home.com [24.2.9.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2258537B71A; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:38:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennisjun@home.com) Received: from wilma ([24.114.163.66]) by femail1.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010319163734.CRVK14290.femail1.rdc1.on.home.com@wilma>; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:37:34 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01c0b093$183e48b0$0300a8c0@wilma> From: "Dennis Jun" To: Cc: Subject: Upgrading a depended port Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:38:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all! I have gkrellm-1.0.6 installed on my system. I wish to upgrade it to 1.0.7. However, after I did a cd /usr/ports/sysutils/gkrellm/; make; pkg_delete /var/db/pkg/gkrellm-1.0.6/ I got the following warning: pkg_delete: package `gkrellm-1.0.6' is required by these other packages and may not be deinstalled: gkrellmms-0.5.5 gkrellmvolume-0.8 Now I'm wondering what would be the best course of action to upgrade to 1.0.7 without breaking those apps that are dependent on it. Much thanx in advance. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 19 9: 9:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from f1node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de [131.220.18.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0A4A37B719 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:09:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Received: from moritz.alleswirdgelber (ascend-tk-p167.dialin.uni-bonn.de [131.220.244.167]) by f1node03.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA154082; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:09:26 +0100 Received: from localhost (uzs106@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moritz.alleswirdgelber (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00291; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:29:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:29:33 +0100 (CET) From: Heiko Recktenwald X-Sender: uzs106@moritz.alleswirdgelber To: Lute Mullenix Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Just getting started In-Reply-To: <20010318195504.C1601@willinet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > will be wanting to get done are, learning how to install apps that I didn't > get installed with the system, (off the CD, and online) getting the system /stand/sysinstall, postinstallconfiguration, packages as a start. > configured to go online (e-mail, and web browsing), and getting my printer > to work. There is a handbook and a FAQ on your system, in /usr/share/doc. Look for a ppp.conf example, in /usr/share/exemples/ppp/ppp.conf.sample, clip this to your need, phonenumber, passwd etc, mv it to /etc/ppp/ppp.conf . Well, a lot to do... There is a PPP primer and a newbies text in www.freebsd.org, usefull. And a usenet newsgroup, H. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Mar 19 16: 4:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn.Stanford.EDU [171.66.112.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E49C37B71B for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:04:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA43791; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:53:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:53:08 -0800 (PST) From: Annelise Anderson To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: Doug Young , "Denis J. Cirulis" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: About Unix In-Reply-To: <003d01c0a85c$7955d620$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is so cool. I like the book too. :) Annelise On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > The difference is that, by default, Linux filesystems are mounted async, > FreeBSD filesystems are mounted sync. > > However, this is just a default. It is trivial to change on both system, > and if you have Linux systems that are going to be in environments where > they are going to be regularly restarting, then it's a lot easier to > change the config to have the automounter mount the Linux filesystems > synchronously. > > In any case, all of this is begging 2 very important questions: > > 1) Why don't you organize your systems to be resistant to this? > > 2) Why don't you correct the environment so the systems don't have to > restart. > > As far as #1 is concerned, I manage a Usenet news server that is very busy. > About once every 2-3 months it gets a SCSI bus error and reboots itself. > After the first one of these I changed the system so that when it does > reboot itself, that there's not a problem. > > You see, the issue with uncontrolled shutdowns is this. If the partition > (note partition, not filesystem) is quiescent during a uncontrolled > shutdown, when it is fsck'd during reboot, there won't be any corruption - > and fsck will mark it clean and remount it. > > This leads to an obvious solution - you arrainge your filesystem mount > points so that anything that is being written is NOT on a filesystem > containing startup scripts, (typically in /etc) or on a partition that's > automounted. > > For example, with FreeBSD, the default mount points are to put /etc and / on > the same partition. Fine - but /tmp is created on /, and /tmp is usually > going to be in use during an uncontrolled shutdown. > > What I did with my news server is /var is on it's own partition, and all > logs in it are softlinked to another disk. /tmp and /usr/tmp are also > softlinked to this disk. The filesystems on this disk are NOT automounted. > > If the system crashes and reboots itself, then /, /var, and /usr are all on > partitions that are NEVER written to during normal operation, thus they are > always quiescent, and they always come back up with no problem. I can then > Telnet into the system and manually run fsck on the other disks. Granted, > it's a nuisance because the log and temp directories are unavailable during > this limited maintainence mode, but the system won't deny me access. > > Once the rest of the disks are clean, I mount them, then restart syslogd and > the other programs that need to be started and away we go. No need to be > physically at the system to do all this, nor is sync/async mounting an > issue. > > Now, as far as #2 is concerned, with the exception of my news server, none > of my other servers ever have uncontrolled shutdowns. This is because of > several things. First, all servers have their own UPS's and are plugged > into the sense port of the UPS, and if the UPS goes onto battery for too > long, the server does a controlled shutdown. The servers and UPS's are also > all on remote reboot switches. Secondly, if I find a flaky server I work > with it until I fix it or scrap it. I tolerate the news server because I > know that the problem is a software driver bug and I have not yet gotten > time to rebuild it and fix the bug. (news servers typically take a long > time to rebuild and tune) > > > Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com > Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide > Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Mar 20 8:24:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gekko.i-clue.de (server.ms-agentur.de [62.153.134.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F92037B718; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:24:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from so@server.i-clue.de) Received: from i-clue.de (automatix.i-clue.de [192.168.0.112]) by gekko.i-clue.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id SAA05481; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:31:22 +0100 Message-ID: <3AB78485.D239A738@i-clue.de> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:25:41 +0100 From: Christoph Sold Reply-To: so@server.i-clue.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dennis Jun Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Upgrading a depended port References: <000f01c0b093$183e48b0$0300a8c0@wilma> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dennis Jun schrieb: > > Hello all! > > I have gkrellm-1.0.6 installed on my system. I wish to upgrade it to > 1.0.7. However, after I did a cd /usr/ports/sysutils/gkrellm/; make; > pkg_delete /var/db/pkg/gkrellm-1.0.6/ I got the following warning: > > pkg_delete: package `gkrellm-1.0.6' is required by these other packages > and may not be deinstalled: > gkrellmms-0.5.5 > gkrellmvolume-0.8 > > Now I'm wondering what would be the best course of action to upgrade to > 1.0.7 without breaking those apps that are dependent on it. Much thanx in > advance. The save way is to update the dependent ports as well. To do so savely: - Build both dependent ports - pkg_delete the old versions - install the new versions HTH -Christoph Sold To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 21 15:24:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.atl.mediaone.net (atlasmtp.atl.mediaone.net [65.32.2.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3411237B719; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:24:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mikenoc@mindspring.net) Received: from mediaone (client122025.atl.mediaone.net [24.31.122.25]) by smtp.atl.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA01554; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:24:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003b01c0b277$c4347b40$0200a8c0@mediaone.net> From: "mike" To: Cc: Subject: Samba issues Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:28:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01C0B234.B30EA9A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C0B234.B30EA9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am having trouble getting Samba working. I am running 4.1.1 stable and trying to get samba working with 98. I got the latest version of Samba witch I believe = is 2.0.7 and edited the config file. I get the following error when running smbstatus = ****=20 frogger# smbstatus Couldn't open status file /var/spool/lock/STATUS..LCK frogger#=20 ***** also when I try and run samba by doing a /usr/local/etc/rc.d/samba.sh . It wont let me do it unless I am root and it does change the prompt = from frogger to Sambafrogger. So I dont know if I am close or not to get it working. Thanks in advance,=20 Mike F.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C0B234.B30EA9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am having trouble getting Samba working.
I am = running=20 4.1.1 stable and trying to get
samba working with 98. I got the = latest=20 version of Samba witch I believe is 2.0.7 and
edited the config file. = I get=20 the following error when running smbstatus=20

****=20

frogger# smbstatus
Couldn't open status file=20 /var/spool/lock/STATUS..LCK
frogger#=20

*****

also when I try and run samba by doing a /usr/local/etc/rc.d/samba.sh

. It wont let me do it unless I am root and it does change the prompt = from=20 frogger to Sambafrogger. So I dont know if I am close or not to

get it working.

 

 

Thanks in advance,=20

Mike F.

------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C0B234.B30EA9A0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 21 15:35:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from sp28.notesnet.bgsu.edu (sp28.notesnet.bgsu.edu [129.1.7.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ADB737B765; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:35:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from memphis_ms@gmx.net) Received: from gmx.net ([129.1.133.122]) by sp28.notesnet.bgsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.2b) with ESMTP id 2001032118320049:784101 ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:32:00 -0500 Message-ID: <3AB93B8C.27F0222D@gmx.net> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:38:52 -0500 From: Raoul Schroeder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mike Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Samba issues References: <003b01c0b277$c4347b40$0200a8c0@mediaone.net> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAILGW02/SERVER/BGSU(Release 5.0.2b |December 16, 1999) at 03/21/2001 06:32:00 PM, Serialize by Router on MAILGW02/SERVER/BGSU(Release 5.0.2b |December 16, 1999) at 03/21/2001 06:32:01 PM, Serialize complete at 03/21/2001 06:32:01 PM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org sounds to me as if you don't have the right permissions set for the lock directory, or the wrong owner. It sounds like you are relatively close... But it's hard to say. mike wrote: > I am having trouble getting Samba working. > I am running 4.1.1 stable and trying to get > samba working with 98. I got the latest version of Samba witch I > believe is 2.0.7 and > edited the config file. I get the following error when running > smbstatus > > **** > > frogger# smbstatus > Couldn't open status file /var/spool/lock/STATUS..LCK > frogger# > > ***** > > also when I try and run samba by doing a /usr/local/etc/rc.d/samba.sh > > . It wont let me do it unless I am root and it does change the prompt > from frogger to Sambafrogger. So I dont know if I am close or not to > > get it working. > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Mike F. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 21 15:36: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from intrigue.willinet.net (intrigue.willinet.net [198.49.30.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 607EF37B71E for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:35:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lute@willinet.net) Received: (qmail 26091 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 17:35:56 -0600 Received: from ps89sux.willinet.net (HELO gomer) (205.163.104.104) by intrigue.willinet.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 17:35:56 -0600 Received: from lute by gomer with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14fs5H-00031W-00 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:32:07 -0600 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:32:07 -0600 From: Lute Mullenix To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: So far, so good Message-ID: <20010321173207.B11588@willinet.net> Reply-To: lute@willinet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Spam-Rating: intrigue.willinet.net 1.6.2 0/0/N Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, have installed 4.1.1 on an old 486, and have X up and running. Took a bit of tweaking to get it lined up on the screen properly, but now it seems to be operating correctly. One thing I like already is that it seems to have a goodly amount of online docs that will surely come in handy as things progress, but I have not been able to find rxvt. I installed from a single CD that was sent to me by my brother, does anybody know if rxvt is on there or not? I like it much better than xterm. -- >Lute< Hey! It happens. Well it does... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 21 16: 5:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B61D37B71C; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:05:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lplist@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1003) id AF98E55407; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:56:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C08E51610; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:56:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:56:28 -0800 (PST) From: Linh Pham To: mike Cc: , Subject: Re: Samba issues In-Reply-To: <003b01c0b277$c4347b40$0200a8c0@mediaone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2001-03-21, mike scribbled: # also when I try and run samba by doing a /usr/local/etc/rc.d/samba.sh # # . It wont let me do it unless I am root and it does change the prompt from frogger to Sambafrogger. So I dont know if I am close or not to # # get it working. For one... the shell script is used at startup and during the startup of the machine, it will display items that are started out of /usr/local/etc/rc.d, including samba.sh. That is why " Samba" is printed before your prompt. Press ENTER and the prompt will return to normal. You are supposed to be root to run Samba if I'm not mistaken. Have you renamed the default smb.conf (it should be called smb.conf.default or something like that) under /usr/local/etc to just plain smb.conf? -- Linh Pham [lplist@closedsrc.org] // 404b - Brain not found To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 21 18:47:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pravda.tenzo.net (24.69.46.73.bc.wave.home.com [24.69.46.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5946E37B71A for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:47:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michael@tenzo.com) Received: from pravda.tenzo.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pravda.tenzo.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D9DA60044 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:48:09 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Michael O'Henly Reply-To: michael@tenzo.com Organization: TENZO Design To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Installing FreeBSD to co-exist on a Linux machine Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:48:09 -0800 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01032118480901.29161@pravda.tenzo.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi... I have a Linux desktop system with two hard drives. At the moment only the first drive is being used (for Linux) and I want to install FreeBSD on the second drive. I've check space and hardware in the FAQ and all appears well. The Linux system uses GRUB as a boot loader. Here's what I think will happen... 1. I'll boot from my FreeBSD 4.2 install CD and direct it to install to the second hard drive. 2. At some point, I'll be asked whether to install a boot loader. 3. I'll say yes and the FreeBSD boot loader, Boot Easy, will overwrite GRUB (the Linux boot loader). 4. After rebooting, I'll modify the Boot Easy in some way so that it will also be able to boot Linux. Does that sound about right? If so, two questions: 1. I'm a true FreeBSD neophyte and don't know how to modify Boot Easy so that it will boot Linux. Is there any documentation on this? (Although I guess I could boot Linux from a floppy until I get my feet on the ground...) 2. Are there any pitfalls I should be aware of that might put my Linux partitions at risk when I'm doing the install? Thanks. M. -- Michael O'Henly TENZO Design To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 21 20:39:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A570A37B71D for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:39:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from goldtech@worldpost.com) Received: from 207-172-129-93.s93.tnt2.col.md.dialup.rcn.com ([207.172.129.93] helo=beefstew) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 14fwsj-0007VP-00 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:39:29 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c0b28a$72184cc0$5d81accf@beefstew> From: "leegold" To: Subject: interesting site Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:41:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html Link above shows uptimes of various servers, FBSD makes a strong showing. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 21 20:47:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from web10205.mail.yahoo.com (web10205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D286C37B71F for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:47:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kiwisurfer1986@yahoo.co.nz) Message-ID: <20010322044748.89217.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.109.252.18] by web10205.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:47:48 NZST Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:47:48 +1200 (NZST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Pole?= Subject: Re: Installing FreeBSD to co-exist on a Linux machine To: michael@tenzo.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <01032118480901.29161@pravda.tenzo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Michael O'Henly wrote: > Hi... > > I have a Linux desktop system with two hard drives. > At the moment only the > first drive is being used (for Linux) and I want to > install FreeBSD on the > second drive. I've check space and hardware in the > FAQ and all appears well. > The Linux system uses GRUB as a boot loader. > > Here's what I think will happen... > > 1. I'll boot from my FreeBSD 4.2 install CD and > direct it to install to the > second hard drive. > > 2. At some point, I'll be asked whether to install a > boot loader. > > 3. I'll say yes and the FreeBSD boot loader, Boot > Easy, will overwrite GRUB > (the Linux boot loader). > > 4. After rebooting, I'll modify the Boot Easy in > some way so that it will > also be able to boot Linux. > > Does that sound about right? AFAIK, BootEasy autodectects the partions provides you with a choice of what OS you want to boot into. _____________________________________________________________________________ http://calendar.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Calendar - Access your appointments and meetings online. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 21 22:24:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E9637B71C for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:24:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: from WhizKid (rh28.bfm.org [216.127.220.221]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:29:11 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010322002447.00a70760@mail85.pair.com> X-Sender: whizkid@mail85.pair.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:24:47 -0600 To: From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: interesting site In-Reply-To: <000701c0b28a$72184cc0$5d81accf@beefstew> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 23:41 21-03-2001 -0500, leegold wrote: >http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html > > >Link above shows uptimes of various servers, FBSD makes a strong showing. Except, it is completely unreliable. All of my web sites run on FreeBSD, yet netcraft.com claims they run on BSD/OS. Furthermore, it says that it cannot determine the uptime because the OS does not provide that information (try entering www.int80h.org to see it for yourself). Go figure... Adam --- Whiz Kid Technomagic - brand name computers for less. See http://www.whizkidtech.net/pcwarehouse/ for details. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Mar 21 23:22:22 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from server.mbg.com.ge (server.mbg.com.ge [212.72.131.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CD7F37B71C for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:22:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nugzar@mbg.com.ge) Received: (qmail 56784 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 07:47:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nugzar) (192.168.170.152) by server.mbg.com.ge with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 07:47:02 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:22:09 +0400 From: Nugzar Nebieridze X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.44) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Nugzar Nebieridze X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1226787970.20010322112209@mbg.com.ge> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re[2]: interesting site In-reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010322002447.00a70760@mail85.pair.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20010322002447.00a70760@mail85.pair.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thursday, March 22, 2001, 10:24:47 AM, G. wrote: GAS> At 23:41 21-03-2001 -0500, leegold wrote: >>http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html >> >> >>Link above shows uptimes of various servers, FBSD makes a strong showing. As shoen on that page, some FreeBSD-s are running 1130 days and more without rebooting. I'm curious what kernel they are running if last reboot was almost 4 years ago? Didn-t they upgrade thir releases or are they still runnind 2.x.x. versions and later? Can anyone explain my how can it be? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 0:44:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from omta02.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D651137B719 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:44:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sphinX@euromedia.ro) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports [216.200.145.62]) by omta02.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C88E01C4663; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:44:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id B7A463ED4; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:44:47 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:44:47 -0800 (PST) From: sphin X To: Larry Coleman , sphinX@euromedia.ro Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ide programming resourses Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro X-Originating-Ip: [212.120.194.154] Message-Id: <20010322084447.B7A463ED4@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, thanx for ur answer. i think i know what u mean...i'll stick with the command line for the moment. probably good opportunity to learn some scripting as well... --- Larry Coleman > wrote: >sphin X wrote: >> >> hello, this is my first post here. i've just installed freebsd (not complete yet) and trying to find my way around. >> >> from what i gathered so far most people use freebsd for networking etc. i'm planning to use it as a desktop - workstation and would like to make apps for it... >> >> is there anyone here coming from ms-win background that has programed in visual studio or any borland visual env? are there any corresponding ide-visual programming tools for freebsd and if so could u give me some pointers? >> >> thanx in advance...not sure if this post is for here, but i get the feeling that if i talk about visual stuff in a bsd development list, i'd probably get seriously flamed... >> >> _____________________________________________________________ >> Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > >I use Visual Basic at work. There are IDEs available, but I don't use >them. If you like Gnome/GTK+ you can use glade. If you prefer KDE/Qt you >can use Kdevelop. If you like Java and have a LOT of memory (128MB >minimum) you can try Forte or JBuilder. > >I highly recommend, however, that you try working without an IDE for a >while. Then you'll see first hand on of the major advantages of *nix >over Windows: you can do exactly what you want from a command-line >interface (CLI) and do it faster once you know what you're doing. > >Larry >-- >larry@studio1620.com >Democracy: two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. >Constitutional Republic: same as above, but lamb's not on the menu >(unless the wolves are very hungry). _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 0:51:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from omta03.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C0D937B71A for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:51:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sphinX@euromedia.ro) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports [216.200.145.62]) by omta03.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E79E49234 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:51:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id D426336F9; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:51:27 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:51:27 -0800 (PST) From: sphin X To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: ntfs - question Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro X-Originating-Ip: [212.120.194.154] Message-Id: <20010322085127.D426336F9@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, i posted the following in the freebsd-questions list and got no answer. can anyone here help??? thanx a lot hello, this is my first post here as i'm very new user of freebsd. i wonder if any of u can help me with the following problem. i got two HDs, one with freebsd and the other with NT. for some reason the NT crashed and i thought instead of trying to repair it, i'll do a new install (to rearange the partitions). the problem is that there is some stuff in the NT disk that i'd like to keep. so i try to mount the NT disk from the freebsd. mounting goes ok, but i can only see one of the two partitions of the NT disk.(thats the c: drive). most of the stuff i wanna keep is on the d: drive, but i dont seem to be able to mount that. actually cant even locate which one it is... the dmesg command before mounting gives the following: ad0 19092MB ... ata0-master UDMA33 ad1 19092MB ... ata0-slave UDMA33 the partitions for freebsd i can see are mount in /dev/ad0s1a to ad0s1h. for NT, the only dev i can mount is the ad1s1, but this shows only the c: drive. does anyone know how i can mount the d: drive??? i tried ad1s2, ad1s1a,b,c , ad1 but dont seem to work (i get invalid argument) thank u in advance for ur help... _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 1:21:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from node0b2a.a2000.nl (node0b2a.a2000.nl [62.108.11.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 247C737B71B for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:21:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gareth@node0b2a.a2000.nl) Received: from localhost (gareth@localhost) by node0b2a.a2000.nl (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2M9Nmf12712; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:23:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from gareth@node0b2a.a2000.nl) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:23:48 +0100 (CET) From: Gareth Williams To: sphin X Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ntfs - question In-Reply-To: <20010322085127.D426336F9@sitemail.everyone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi there, I'm a newbie myself, so this will probably not work, but here goes anyway: login as root or su to root, and select Config->Media->DOS This is the install program and you are telling it to install from a DOS partition, so it lists all those that are available. Your NT drives should appear here (well, my win98 drives do, anyway). Good luck! On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, sphin X wrote: > hi, i posted the following in the freebsd-questions list and got no answer. can anyone here help??? > > thanx a lot > > > hello, this is my first post here as i'm very new user of freebsd. i wonder > if any of u can help me with the following problem. > > i got two HDs, one with freebsd and the other with NT. for some reason the > NT crashed and i thought instead of trying to repair it, i'll do a new install > (to rearange the partitions). > > the problem is that there is some stuff in the NT disk that i'd like to > keep. so i try to mount the NT disk from the freebsd. > > mounting goes ok, but i can only see one of the two partitions of the NT > disk.(thats the c: drive). most of the stuff i wanna keep is on the d: drive, > but i dont seem to be able to mount that. actually cant even locate which > one it is... > > the dmesg command before mounting gives the following: > ad0 19092MB ... ata0-master UDMA33 > ad1 19092MB ... ata0-slave UDMA33 > > the partitions for freebsd i can see are mount in /dev/ad0s1a to ad0s1h. > > for NT, the only dev i can mount is the ad1s1, but this shows only the c: > drive. does anyone know how i can mount the d: drive??? > > i tried ad1s2, ad1s1a,b,c , ad1 but dont seem to work (i get invalid argument) > > thank u in advance for ur help... > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 2: 5:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26E337B71F for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 02:05:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f2MA5dk19594; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 02:05:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Nugzar Nebieridze" , Subject: RE: Re[2]: interesting site Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 02:05:39 -0800 Message-ID: <005b01c0b2b7$a58833e0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <1226787970.20010322112209@mbg.com.ge> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org That page is almost totally useless and worthless, it's mainly advertising and marketing for those sites in the guise of useful technical data. Since those sites are most certainly behind routers, it's simple enough when the admin decides to upgrade the OS, to take a brand NEW box and build it, bring it online, then with a flick of the fingers, ifconfig the interface down on the old box and simultaneously ifconfig the interface on the new box to the number of the old box. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Nugzar Nebieridze >Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:22 PM >To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: Re[2]: interesting site > > >Thursday, March 22, 2001, 10:24:47 AM, G. wrote: > >GAS> At 23:41 21-03-2001 -0500, leegold wrote: >>>http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html >>> >>> >>>Link above shows uptimes of various servers, FBSD makes a strong showing. > >As shoen on that page, some FreeBSD-s are running 1130 days and more >without rebooting. I'm curious what kernel they are running if last >reboot was almost 4 years ago? Didn-t they upgrade thir releases or >are they still runnind 2.x.x. versions and later? > >Can anyone explain my how can it be? > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 2:34:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from prim.omskreg.ru (prim.omskreg.ru [212.192.34.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A873337B724 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 02:34:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from m83redreev@math.omsu.omskreg.ru) Received: from math.omsu.omskreg.ru (ic09.omskreg.ru [212.192.34.209]) by prim.omskreg.ru (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f2MAYWq04032 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:34:33 +0600 (OSK) Message-ID: <3AB9D537.6A6B3DED@math.omsu.omskreg.ru> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:34:31 +0600 From: "Redreev Denis G." Organization: omsu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: abilities Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can anybody answer these questions 1)which is the latest version of FreeBSD 2)what are RAM,processor requirementes to it 3)how many Mbs it needs on HDD 4)how many users can be registered in the system Sincerely,Denis Redreev To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 3:19:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mailhub.fokus.gmd.de (mailhub.fokus.gmd.de [193.174.154.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847BD37B71B for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:19:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from krepel@fokus.gmd.de) Received: from fokus.gmd.de (quant [193.175.133.183]) by mailhub.fokus.gmd.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29178; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:19:30 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3AB9DFC1.E6A7A27A@fokus.gmd.de> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:19:29 +0100 From: Falco Krepel Organization: GMD FOKUS - CATS Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en, de-DE MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Redreev Denis G." Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: abilities References: <3AB9D537.6A6B3DED@math.omsu.omskreg.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Redreev Denis G." wrote: > > Can anybody answer these questions > 1)which is the latest version of FreeBSD current 5.0 stable 4.2 beta 4.3 > 2)what are RAM,processor requirementes to it don't know exactly but not much (without X). I think it depends on required performance do you want to. > 3)how many Mbs it needs on HDD 157MB without source and games and any ports > 4)how many users can be registered in the system ??? -- Falco Krepel Phone: +49-(0)30 - 34 63 - 7 276 GMD-FOKUS Fax: +49-(0)30 - 34 63 - 8 276 Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 31 e-mail: krepel@fokus.gmd.de 10589 Berlin WWW: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/krepel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 3:27:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from node0b2a.a2000.nl (node0b2a.a2000.nl [62.108.11.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0D5037B722 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 03:27:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gareth@node0b2a.a2000.nl) Received: from localhost (gareth@localhost) by node0b2a.a2000.nl (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2MBTl412989 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:29:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from gareth@node0b2a.a2000.nl) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:29:47 +0100 (CET) From: Gareth Williams To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: abilities In-Reply-To: <3AB9DFC1.E6A7A27A@fokus.gmd.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org For question 1, perhaps you should mention the the actual current version is 4.2 (i.e. this is the one you would buy in the shops). Version 4.3 should be released in the next week or so, and 5.0 isn't going to be here until around the end of the year. On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Falco Krepel wrote: > "Redreev Denis G." wrote: > > > > Can anybody answer these questions > > 1)which is the latest version of FreeBSD > current 5.0 > stable 4.2 > beta 4.3 > > > 2)what are RAM,processor requirementes to it > don't know exactly but not much (without X). I think it depends on > required performance do you want to. > > > 3)how many Mbs it needs on HDD > 157MB without source and games and any ports > > > 4)how many users can be registered in the system > ??? > > -- > Falco Krepel Phone: +49-(0)30 - 34 63 - 7 276 > GMD-FOKUS Fax: +49-(0)30 - 34 63 - 8 276 > Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 31 e-mail: krepel@fokus.gmd.de > 10589 Berlin WWW: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/krepel > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 4:12:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from relay.wplus.net (relay.wplus.net [195.131.52.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 532F637B719 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:12:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nas@chartpilot.ru) Received: from relay1.wplus.net (smtp.wplus.net [195.131.52.143]) by relay.wplus.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wplus.2) with ESMTP id PAA49089; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:11:38 +0300 (MSK) X-Real-To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from dimetra (ip50-173.dialup.wplus.net [195.131.50.173]) by relay1.wplus.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wplus.2) with SMTP id PAA95321; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:12:21 +0300 (MSK) From: "Andrey Nepomnyaschih" To: , Subject: RE: ntfs - question Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:13:04 +0300 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20010322085127.D426336F9@sitemail.everyone.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, Assuming that you created your drive d: in extended partion, it should have name /dev/ad0s5 so to mount it you will need to run: mount -t ntfs /dev/ad0s5 /ntfs_d if drive d is another primary partion then try to mount /dev/ad0s2, /dev/ad0s3, /dev/ad0s4 if it won't work try to run ls /dev/ | grep ^ad0s The output should give you a clue whether partion could go. Have a good time, Andrey Nepomnyaschih nas@asystems.lv BTW. Don't forget to change all ad0 to ad1, nt was installed on the second drive. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 10:22:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow035o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C6E37B720 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:22:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ITServices@blueyonder.co.uk) Received: from adbr03860 ([213.48.196.18]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:18:16 +0000 Message-ID: <023d01c0b2fc$b583f280$12c430d5@adbr03860> Reply-To: "Stuart Duckworth" From: "Stuart Duckworth" To: , "Free BSD Newbies" References: <20010322084447.B7A463ED4@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: Re: ide programming resourses Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:19:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi sphin X, Like you I am a newbie coming from MS Windows. I want to use FreeBSD eventually as a desktop but I am still finding my way round. I have installed and re-installed FreeBSD on my machine and decided now to work from the command line for a while. I started trying to install KDE desktop but have come to the conclusion that I will be better off learning about the operating system first. I plan to work out how to rebuild the kernel so that all the hardware is properly working. I am currently working my way through the FreeBSD Handbook. I have done a little programming in Visual Basic 6 and VBA. My programming, which I learnt when working for a post grad. diploma, has been mainly in Pascal, though I know fundamental C. I realise that this is not much help to you directly but, if you're anything like me, you'll be glad to know you're not alone. Good luck with your endeavours. Stuart. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 10:23:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D9D37B71C for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:23:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA10FC; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:28:33 -0800 Message-ID: <3ABA431C.663E593E@acuson.com> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:23:24 -0800 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: michael@tenzo.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Installing FreeBSD to co-exist on a Linux machine References: <01032118480901.29161@pravda.tenzo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael O'Henly wrote: > 2. At some point, I'll be asked whether to install a boot loader. > > 3. I'll say yes and the FreeBSD boot loader, Boot Easy, will overwrite GRUB > (the Linux boot loader). No need to do that (unless you don't like GRUB). Choose to install the boot loader on the root partition of the *second* harddrive. GRUB will remain on the first harddrive and you can add an entry for FreeBD in the normal manner. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 10:27: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5766037B71F for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:26:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA12D2; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:31:56 -0800 Message-ID: <3ABA43E8.57763473@acuson.com> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:26:48 -0800 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stuart Duckworth Cc: sphinX@euromedia.ro, Free BSD Newbies Subject: Re: ide programming resourses References: <20010322084447.B7A463ED4@sitemail.everyone.net> <023d01c0b2fc$b583f280$12c430d5@adbr03860> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Stuart Duckworth wrote: > I have installed and re-installed FreeBSD on my machine and decided now to > work from the command line for a while. I started trying to install KDE > desktop but have come to the conclusion that I will be better off learning > about the operating system first. If you install KDE from the ports or packages, it should be a piece of cake. What problems did you have? Or did you not have any problems and are just postponing it? David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 10:40:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.resfeber.se (Resfeber-gw.customer.internet5.net [195.66.48.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C34437B719 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:40:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon.molin@resfeber.se) Received: from resfeber.se ([212.75.72.9]) by mail2.resfeber.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31733 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:32:05 +0100 Message-ID: <3ABA47B1.1780BD87@resfeber.se> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:42:57 +0100 From: Jon Molin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: adding a new drive Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm trying to add a new drive to my computer with no luck at all. I read http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/disks-adding.html and thought it looked really easy. I followed all it said in the guide using sysinstall and got errormessages saying 'Error mounting /dev/ad1s1a on / : Device not configured' but didn't worry since the guide said there would be error messages when writing the label. But when i exit there's no info left. I've tried booting slackware and using cfdisk to make a bsd partition of it and it seemed to stay but when i boot up my freebsd there's no table left. I've tried doing it manualy with same result. jmo# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rad1 bs=1k count=1 1+0 records in 1+0 records out 1024 bytes transferred in 0.000889 secs (1151775 bytes/sec) jmo# fdisk -BI ad1 ******* Working on device /dev/ad1 ******* fdisk: invalid fdisk partition table found dmesg: ad0: 19092MB [38792/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA33 ad1: 6187MB [13410/15/63] at ata0-slave UDMA33 Anyone got a clue? /jon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 10:59:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow025o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1510C37B71A for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:59:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ITServices@blueyonder.co.uk) Received: from adbr03860 ([213.48.100.130]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:00:57 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c0b302$acea0be0$826430d5@adbr03860> Reply-To: "Stuart Duckworth" From: "Stuart Duckworth" To: "David Johnson" , "Free BSD Newbies" References: <20010322084447.B7A463ED4@sitemail.everyone.net> <023d01c0b2fc$b583f280$12c430d5@adbr03860> <3ABA43E8.57763473@acuson.com> Subject: Re: ide programming resourses Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:01:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Johnson wrote: > > If you install KDE from the ports or packages, it should be a piece of > cake. What problems did you have? Or did you not have any problems and > are just postponing it? > I am postponing it now. The problems I had were i) I was not being structured in my approach to installing FreeBSD and packages, and ii) I ran out of disk space despite having 300Mb of space in /usr. I had tried to install some other packages because I had not properly read the handbook. So I am going back to basics. I have been spoiled by ms-win and all its "wizards" ... I despise them because they take responsibility away from users. It was not until I started trying to come to terms with FreeBSD that I realised how much they had compromised my independence! It's fun trying to learn how to install and control FreeBSD. Stuart. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 12:31:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from omta01.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C9B37B718 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:31:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sphinX@euromedia.ro) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports [216.200.145.62]) by omta01.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C18D1C3E42; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:31:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id D570B36F9; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:31:11 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:31:11 -0800 (PST) From: sphin X To: "Stuart Duckworth" , "Free BSD Newbies" Subject: Re: ide programming resourses Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro X-Originating-Ip: [212.120.194.154] Message-Id: <20010322203111.D570B36F9@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi there... man, think ur right. i'm going alond those lines now as well (command line , scripts, general admin etc). i thought if i go with X now i'll never get back to learn the basics. it needs a lot of patience though, u know...comparing working with say borland c++ and working with vi...but i'm determined to sit down and learn it. vi, from what i gathered, is probably important. was reading somewhere that all unixes have it, no matters what. so i'm focusing on that now. most posts i've seen around lists are from peps who use freebsd as server or who are somehow connected to a lan. it's good to see that there are people around who wanna use freebsd as desktop or workstation. i think there is big differences and needs between the two 'markets'. and also there is big difference in knowledge... anyway, thanx a lot for ur answer. see u around. --- "Stuart Duckworth" > wrote: >Hi sphin X, > >Like you I am a newbie coming from MS Windows. I want to use FreeBSD >eventually as a desktop but I am still finding my way round. > >I have installed and re-installed FreeBSD on my machine and decided now to >work from the command line for a while. I started trying to install KDE >desktop but have come to the conclusion that I will be better off learning >about the operating system first. > >I plan to work out how to rebuild the kernel so that all the hardware is >properly working. I am currently working my way through the FreeBSD >Handbook. > >I have done a little programming in Visual Basic 6 and VBA. My programming, >which I learnt when working for a post grad. diploma, has been mainly in >Pascal, though I know fundamental C. > >I realise that this is not much help to you directly but, if you're anything >like me, you'll be glad to know you're not alone. > >Good luck with your endeavours. > >Stuart. > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 12:39: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from omta02.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1870037B71C for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:39:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sphinX@euromedia.ro) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports [216.200.145.62]) by omta02.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF381C47ED; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:39:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id A41C3274B; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:39:00 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:39:00 -0800 (PST) From: sphin X To: "Andrey Nepomnyaschih" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: ntfs - question Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro X-Originating-Ip: [212.120.194.154] Message-Id: <20010322203900.A41C3274B@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andrey, thank u for ur answer man. i was looking for an answer like this for sometime... so, it numbers them according to the type isnt it? man, i got to do my reading... i'll try it tonight cause i got a few downloads going at the time...probably gonna work. its exactly as u said. extended partition seen as d: from NT. thans a lot...take care. --- "Andrey Nepomnyaschih" > wrote: >Hello, > >Assuming that you created your drive d: in extended partion, it should have >name /dev/ad0s5 > >so to mount it you will need to run: >mount -t ntfs /dev/ad0s5 /ntfs_d > >if drive d is another primary partion then try to mount /dev/ad0s2, >/dev/ad0s3, /dev/ad0s4 > >if it won't work try to run >ls /dev/ | grep ^ad0s > >The output should give you a clue whether partion could go. > >Have a good time, > >Andrey Nepomnyaschih >nas@asystems.lv > >BTW. Don't forget to change all ad0 to ad1, nt was installed on the second >drive. _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 14:36: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hesmtp0.dion.ne.jp (hesmtp0.dion.ne.jp [210.172.64.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82EC137B71F for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:35:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sales@adwin.com) Received: from sales by hesmtp0.dion.ne.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-00082213) id HAA22496; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 07:35:53 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 07:35:53 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <200103222235.HAA22496@hesmtp0.dion.ne.jp> From: ADWIN To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?k52Mdop3inePS4Ncg3SDZ4LMgrKIxJPg?= X-Mailer: MultiSneder1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org “Ë‘R‚̃[ƒ‹‚ð‚¨‹–‚µ‚­‚¾‚³‚¢B (Š”)ƒAƒhƒEƒBƒ“ ‰c‹Æ•” ’Óc‚Æ\‚µ‚Ü‚·B ¡¡¡ “ŒvŠwŠwKƒ\ƒtƒg‚Ì‚²ˆÄ“à ¡¡¡ œ‹³Þ‚ÌŠT—v ‹ß”NAŒÚ‹q‚È‚Ç‚Ìî•ñ‚ðƒf[ƒ^ƒx[ƒX‰»‚µ‚Ä‚¢‚éŠé‹Æ‚ª‘½‚­‚È‚è‚Ü‚µ‚½B‚µ‚© ‚µA‚»‚±‚©‚çˆê•à“¥‚Ýž‚ñ‚Åu‰c‹Æƒ}ƒ“‚Ì”‚ÆLé“`”ï‚Ì‚Ç‚¿‚炪”„ã‚Év Œ£‚µ‚Ä‚¢‚é‚Ì‚¾‚낤v‚Æ‚¢‚Á‚½•ªÍ‚ð‚ǂꂾ‚¯‚ÌŠé‹Æ‚ªs‚Á‚Ä‚¢‚é‚Å‚µ‚傤‚©H Šù‘¶‚̃f[ƒ^ƒx[ƒX‚ð—LŒø‚ÉŠˆ—p‚µA‚³‚ç‚ɪ‹’‚Ì‚ ‚é—\‘z‚ð‚½‚Ä‚é‚½‚ß‚É‚Í “ŒvŠw‚Ì’mŽ¯‚ª•K—v‚Æ‚È‚è‚Ü‚·B–{ƒ\ƒtƒg‚Å‚ÍŠî‘b‚©‚çŠm—¦E“ŒvŠw‚ðŠwK‚Å ‚«‚Ü‚·B œŽÀ—p“ŒvŠwuÀ¤•iƒy[ƒW http://www.adwin.com/adwin/products/edutainment/15_statis/note_01.html œ‘ÌŒ±”Ń_ƒEƒ“ƒ[ƒh‚̃y[ƒW http://www.adwin.com/adwin/download/demotoukei/toukeitrial.html ¡ŒãA‚±‚̂悤‚ȃ[ƒ‹‚ð‚²Šó–]‚³‚ê‚È‚¢•û‚ÍA‚±‚̂܂܃[ƒ‹‚ð‚²•ÔM‚­‚¾ ‚³‚¢B ƒf[ƒ^ƒx[ƒX‚æ‚è휂¢‚½‚µ‚Ü‚·B ----------------------------------- ƒAƒhƒEƒBƒ“@‰c‹Æ•”@’Óc E-mail ttsuda@adwin.com ADWIN HomePage http://www.adwin.com/ EDUTAINMENT WORLD http://www.catalog.ne.jp/eworld/ §733-0013L“‡Žs¼‹æ‰¡ìV’¬12-11 TEL 082-233-1667@FAX 082-233-1672 ----------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Mar 22 23: 2:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from omta03.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FBF337B71B for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:02:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sphinX@euromedia.ro) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports [216.200.145.62]) by omta03.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4156C48D61; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:02:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id E280436F9; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:02:05 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:02:05 -0800 (PST) From: sphin X To: "Andrey Nepomnyaschih" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: ntfs - question Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro X-Originating-Ip: [212.120.194.131] Message-Id: <20010323070205.E280436F9@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andrey, doesnt seem to work man... i only get ad1s1 to ad1s4. ad1s1 is c:. all others give invalid argument... i'll probably have to do more drastic ways. take care --- "Andrey Nepomnyaschih" > wrote: >Hello, > >Assuming that you created your drive d: in extended partion, it should have >name /dev/ad0s5 > >so to mount it you will need to run: >mount -t ntfs /dev/ad0s5 /ntfs_d > >if drive d is another primary partion then try to mount /dev/ad0s2, >/dev/ad0s3, /dev/ad0s4 > >if it won't work try to run >ls /dev/ | grep ^ad0s > >The output should give you a clue whether partion could go. > >Have a good time, > >Andrey Nepomnyaschih >nas@asystems.lv > >BTW. Don't forget to change all ad0 to ad1, nt was installed on the second >drive. > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 0:53:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bom2.vsnl.net.in (bom2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA5737B720; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:52:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toner1@asianwired.net) Received: from 202.54.1.1 (rsvp-208-187-151-175.ac05.dlls.eli.net [208.187.151.175]) by bom2.vsnl.net.in (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B0C32B28B; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:20:28 +0530 (GMT+5:30) To: customer@republic.com Date: Thu, 22 Mar 01 03:22:20 EST From: toner1@asianwired.net Subject: toner supplies Message-Id: <20010323085039.9B0C32B28B@bom2.vsnl.net.in> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org PLEASE FORWARD TO THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR PURCHASING YOUR LASER PRINTER SUPPLIES **** VORTEX SUPPLIES **** -SPECIALS OF THE DAY ON LASER TONER SUPPLIES AT DISCOUNT PRICES-- LASER PRINTER TONER CARTRIDGES COPIER AND FAX CARTRIDGES WE ARE -->THE<-- PLACE TO BUY YOUR TONER CARTRIDGES BECAUSE YOU SAVE UP TO 30% FROM OFFICE DEPOT'S, QUILL'S OR OFFICE MAX'S EVERY DAY LOW PRICES ORDER BY PHONE:1-888-288-9043 ORDER BY FAX: 1-888-977-1577 CUSTOMER SERVICE: 1-888-248-2015 E-MAIL REMOVAL LINE: 1-888-248-4930 UNIVERSITY AND/OR SCHOOL PURCHASE ORDERS WELCOME. 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To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 7:16: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from relay.wplus.net (relay.wplus.net [195.131.52.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C87C37B71D for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 07:15:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nas@chartpilot.ru) Received: from relay1.wplus.net (smtp.wplus.net [195.131.52.143]) by relay.wplus.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wplus.2) with ESMTP id SAA72298; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:14:56 +0300 (MSK) X-Real-To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from dimetra (ip86-227.dialup.wplus.net [195.131.86.227]) by relay1.wplus.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/wplus.2) with SMTP id SAA40212; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:15:47 +0300 (MSK) From: "Andrey Nepomnyaschih" To: , Subject: RE: ntfs - question Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:16:31 +0300 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20010323070205.E280436F9@sitemail.everyone.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, OK, just don't know there to start next, but what kernel do you use, if you compiled own kernel have you included the line: options NTFS if not, just don't know maybe cd /dev && sh MAKEDEV /ad1s5 will work. Take care Andrey Nepomnyaschih nas@asystems.lv -----Original Message----- From: sphin X [mailto:sphinX@euromedia.ro] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 10:02 AM To: Andrey Nepomnyaschih; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: ntfs - question Andrey, doesnt seem to work man... i only get ad1s1 to ad1s4. ad1s1 is c:. all others give invalid argument... i'll probably have to do more drastic ways. take care --- "Andrey Nepomnyaschih" > wrote: >Hello, > >Assuming that you created your drive d: in extended partion, it should have >name /dev/ad0s5 > >so to mount it you will need to run: >mount -t ntfs /dev/ad0s5 /ntfs_d > >if drive d is another primary partion then try to mount /dev/ad0s2, >/dev/ad0s3, /dev/ad0s4 > >if it won't work try to run >ls /dev/ | grep ^ad0s > >The output should give you a clue whether partion could go. > >Have a good time, > >Andrey Nepomnyaschih >nas@asystems.lv > >BTW. Don't forget to change all ad0 to ad1, nt was installed on the second >drive. > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 8:27:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D2EC37B71E for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:27:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@vivdev.com) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (dhcp043-10-151-24.nt01-c5.cpe.charter-ne.com [24.151.10.43]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18660 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:27:42 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: lists@vivdev.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:27:37 -0500 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: lists Subject: Need a box, and your experience. Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greetings - having received some good advice from a reliable source, i am looking to pick up a used box to boot freebsd from scratch, and let the pain and suffering, uh, I mean the fun and games, begin. What I have in mind is a 486/66 with 32MB of ram and a 2GB disk. I guess I'll need a floppy and a cd, if that needs to be said. Could probably do with an ethernet connection, although that can probably be added later. I'll need a keyboard, but I think I have a monitor that'll work. How have you, or would you locate such a one, and what should I be aware / beware of? How inexpensively can I do this? thanks, chris lists@vivdev.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 8:59:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.hostorama.com (208-128-72-15.ipv4.intur.net [208.128.72.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 14BFD37B719 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:59:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ewalters@nms2001.com) Received: (qmail 11161 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 17:15:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO netmon1) (12.45.139.50) by 0 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 17:15:26 -0000 From: "Eric Walters" To: "Freebsd Newbies (E-mail)" Subject: Lion virus threat. Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:59:40 -0600 Message-ID: <000301c0b3ba$a76d21d0$978a13ac@netmon1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does anyone know if FreeBSD systems are vulnerable to the new Lion worm reported by sans.org? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 9:42:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from intrigue.willinet.net (intrigue.willinet.net [198.49.30.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EF83F37B71B for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:42:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lute@willinet.net) Received: (qmail 19925 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 11:42:06 -0600 Received: from ps05sux.willinet.net (HELO gomer) (205.163.104.6) by intrigue.willinet.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 11:42:06 -0600 Received: from lute by gomer with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14gVVe-0003Vn-00 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:37:58 -0600 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:37:58 -0600 From: Lute Mullenix To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need a box, and your experience. Message-ID: <20010323113758.A13486@willinet.net> Reply-To: lute@willinet.net References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from lists@vivdev.com on Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 11:27:37AM -0500 X-Spam-Rating: intrigue.willinet.net 1.6.2 0/0/N Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 11:27:37AM -0500, lists wrote: > Greetings - > > having received some good advice from a reliable source, i am looking to > pick up a used box to boot FreeBSD from scratch, and let the pain and > suffering, uh, I mean the fun and games, begin. > > What I have in mind is a 486/66 with 32MB of ram and a 2GB disk. I guess > I'll need a floppy and a cd, if that needs to be said. Could probably do > with an ethernet connection, although that can probably be added later. > I'll need a keyboard, but I think I have a monitor that'll work. > > How have you, or would you locate such a one, and what should I be aware / > beware of? How inexpensively can I do this? > > thanks, > > chris > Hi Chris, Well, you may or may not believe this, but it just so happens that I have FreeBSD 4.1.1 installed on a 486/66 with 20MB of ram and a 1.5GB drive, CD and ethernet card. Only installed it a few days ago, had Linux on it up till then. Now are you ready for this? My brother and I found it sitting outside the county hwy dept shop. They were throwing it away, so I got it for $0.00. Went to Walmart and picked up a $15.00 keyboard and a $9.00 mouse, my bro tossed in an old SVGA monitor that had been collecting dust for a couple of years. So for $24 plus tax, license, dealer prep, and options I had my Linux/FreeBSD machine. I mention this because since then I have come across a couple of other guys that have gotten similar deals with low end (75/90) Pentium machines from office and university upgrades. Since they are basicly worth nothing, and it costs money to dispose of them, they just give they to whoever wants them. Another option might be state or school actions. The state prison in South Dakota just upgraded all their system, and all the old stuff went to state auction, heard there were complete systems going for as little as $25. Wish I had known about it. So keep your eyes and ears open, you may come out better than you thought you could. -- >Lute< Hey! It happens. Well it does... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 12:30:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46EF837B71B for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:30:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmca@cmcardle.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (dhcp043-10-151-24.nt01-c5.cpe.charter-ne.com [24.151.10.43]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25120 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:30:02 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: cmca@cmcardle.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:29:55 -0500 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: "C. McArdle" Subject: FreeBSD & GNU Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What is the connection / disconnection between GNU and BSD UNIX? thanks, chris lists@vivdev.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 12:33:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4A1E37B719 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:33:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lplist@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 1EF6755407; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:24:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D25951610; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:24:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:24:22 -0800 (PST) From: Linh Pham To: "C. McArdle" Cc: Subject: Re: FreeBSD & GNU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2001-03-23, C. McArdle scribbled: # What is the connection / disconnection between GNU and BSD UNIX? FreeBSD's core and parts of it's userland are placed under the BSD license whereas the rest of the userland and most of the applications found in the Ports collection are placed under the GNU Public License. The GPL and the BSDL has always been a very heated argument, and therefore I will not state which one I'm for or against... but I will say that each has it's place and are better in different ways and from different points of view. -- Linh Pham [lplist@closedsrc.org] // 404b - Brain not found To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 12:54:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mario.zyan.com (mario.zyan.com [209.250.96.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF56837B718 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:54:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jallen@aviating.com) Received: from aviating.com (node-64-248-54-162.dslspeed.zyan.com [64.248.54.162]) by mario.zyan.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA36233 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:54:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jallen@aviating.com) Message-ID: <3ABBB808.95A519F0@aviating.com> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:54:32 -0800 From: Slim X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lute@willinet.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need a box, and your experience. References: <20010323113758.A13486@willinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org And the beauty of it is that these 'old, slow' boxes that are 'worthless' because they won't run w98 etc. run just fine on FreeBSD/Linux/Unix systems, right? Jim Allen Lute Mullenix wrote: > > > Well, you may or may not believe this, but it just so happens that I have > FreeBSD 4.1.1 installed on a 486/66 with 20MB of ram and a 1.5GB drive, CD > and ethernet card. Only installed it a few days ago, had Linux on it up till > then. Now are you ready for this? My brother and I found it sitting outside > the county hwy dept shop. They were throwing it away, so I got it for $0.00. > Went to Walmart and picked up a $15.00 keyboard and a $9.00 mouse, my bro > tossed in an old SVGA monitor that had been collecting dust for a couple of > years. So for $24 plus tax, license, dealer prep, and options I had my > Linux/FreeBSD machine. > > I mention this because since then I have come across a couple of other guys > that have gotten similar deals with low end (75/90) Pentium machines from > office and university upgrades. Since they are basicly worth nothing, and it > costs money to dispose of them, they just give they to whoever wants them. > Another option might be state or school actions. The state prison in South > Dakota just upgraded all their system, and all the old stuff went to state > auction, heard there were complete systems going for as little as $25. Wish > I had known about it. So keep your eyes and ears open, you may come out > better than you thought you could. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 13:16: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65F5F37B71B for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:15:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.47.12]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA49F; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:21:03 -0800 Message-ID: <3ABBBD01.713C030@acuson.com> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:15:45 -0800 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "C. McArdle" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD & GNU References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > What is the connection / disconnection between GNU and BSD UNIX? To my knowledge, there were only three projects (not counting spurs and variants) to create free Unix-like operating systems from scratch, GNU, BSD and Linux. Only BSD finished their task. GNU is almost done, but has not finished the key component, the kernel. Linux took the easy route and used components from both the GNU and BSD projects. GNU sees no need to complete the integration of their system, since they say Linux is really GNU in disguise. And the need to complete Linux disappeared once the components from the other projects were integrated. BSD tends to be "pure" in its approach to Unix. GNU seems to be obsessed with adding extensions to Unix, though they try to keep compatibility with the basic Unix command set. Linux does whatever strikes the distributors' fancy. The philosophies behind the three are the greatest differences. BSD just wants to create a quality work. GNU wants to "free" people from the evils of proprietary software. Linux wants to have fun hacking on code. In actuality, all three projects have used pieces from the other two. But beyond that, all three have used components for other non-OS projects, like XFree86, Perl, Apache, etc. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 14:43:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp015.mail.yahoo.com (smtp015.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 361EA37B71B for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:43:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsdq@yahoo.com) Received: from h2.impactidealsolutions.com (HELO support10) (216.98.200.91) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 22:43:36 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-Id: Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:45:19 -0700 X-Priority: 3 From: Peter X-Mailer: Mail Warrior To: lists@vivdev.com Cc: newbies@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re:Need a box, and your experience. Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit X-Mailer-Version: v3.57 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If you are in the US, you can go buy a 266 with a monitor/keyboard/floppy dirve/mouse basically everything for about $200 dollars, check your local newspaper listings. I recently bought a 500mhz with 17 inch monitor good shape, 3GB HD and 64 RAM for about 400 throught a paper listing. On 03/23/2001 9:27:37 AM, lists is quoted as saying: . . . .|Greetings - . . . .| . . . .|having received some good advice from a reliable source, i am looking to . . . .|pick up a used box to boot freebsd from scratch, and let the pain and . . . .|suffering, uh, I mean the fun and games, begin. . . . .| . . . .|What I have in mind is a 486/66 with 32MB of ram and a 2GB disk. I guess . . . .|I'll need a floppy and a cd, if that needs to be said. Could probably do . . . .|with an ethernet connection, although that can probably be added later. . . . .|I'll need a keyboard, but I think I have a monitor that'll work. . . . .| . . . .|How have you, or would you locate such a one, and what should I be aware / . . . .|beware of? How inexpensively can I do this? . . . .| . . . .|thanks, . . . .| . . . .|chris . . . .| . . . .|lists@vivdev.com . . . .| . . . .| . . . .| . . . .|To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org . . . .|with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message www.nul.cjb.net www.FreeBSD.org _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 15:27: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from omta04.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 453BA37B71A for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:27:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sphinX@euromedia.ro) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports [216.200.145.62]) by omta04.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB804F2CE; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:27:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 8F7C536F9; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:26:56 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:26:56 -0800 (PST) From: sphin X To: Slim , lute@willinet.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need a box, and your experience. Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro X-Originating-Ip: [212.120.194.112] Message-Id: <20010323232656.8F7C536F9@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, appart from bsd being able to run fast on old systems u can make it run even faster. first u compile custom kernel. appart from that though u can go even further by shutting down all services u dont want that startup by default. if u want take a look at: http://www.daemonnews.org/199809/security.html i'm sure there is more detailed stuff around, but these short articles http://www.daemonnews.org/new2bsd/ are realy cool when u start up... see u --- Slim > wrote: >And the beauty of it is that these 'old, slow' boxes that are >'worthless' because they won't run w98 etc. run just fine on >FreeBSD/Linux/Unix systems, right? > >Jim Allen > >Lute Mullenix wrote: >> >> >> Well, you may or may not believe this, but it just so happens that I have >> FreeBSD 4.1.1 installed on a 486/66 with 20MB of ram and a 1.5GB drive, CD >> and ethernet card. Only installed it a few days ago, had Linux on it up till >> then. Now are you ready for this? My brother and I found it sitting outside >> the county hwy dept shop. They were throwing it away, so I got it for $0.00. >> Went to Walmart and picked up a $15.00 keyboard and a $9.00 mouse, my bro >> tossed in an old SVGA monitor that had been collecting dust for a couple of >> years. So for $24 plus tax, license, dealer prep, and options I had my >> Linux/FreeBSD machine. >> >> I mention this because since then I have come across a couple of other guys >> that have gotten similar deals with low end (75/90) Pentium machines from >> office and university upgrades. Since they are basicly worth nothing, and it >> costs money to dispose of them, they just give they to whoever wants them. >> Another option might be state or school actions. The state prison in South >> Dakota just upgraded all their system, and all the old stuff went to state >> auction, heard there were complete systems going for as little as $25. Wish >> I had known about it. So keep your eyes and ears open, you may come out >> better than you thought you could. > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 16:42: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from intrigue.willinet.net (intrigue.willinet.net [198.49.30.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 57A8A37B71B for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:41:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lute@willinet.net) Received: (qmail 6961 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 18:41:55 -0600 Received: from ps19sux.willinet.net (HELO gomer) (205.163.104.20) by intrigue.willinet.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 18:41:55 -0600 Received: from lute by gomer with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14gc3s-00005R-00 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:37:44 -0600 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:37:44 -0600 From: Lute Mullenix To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Need a box, and your experience. Message-ID: <20010323183744.A300@willinet.net> Reply-To: lute@willinet.net References: <20010323113758.A13486@willinet.net> <3ABBB808.95A519F0@aviating.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3ABBB808.95A519F0@aviating.com>; from jallen@aviating.com on Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 12:54:32PM -0800 X-Spam-Rating: intrigue.willinet.net 1.6.2 0/0/N Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 12:54:32PM -0800, Slim wrote: > > And the beauty of it is that these 'old, slow' boxes that are > 'worthless' because they won't run w98 etc. run just fine on > FreeBSD/Linux/Unix systems, right? > > Jim Allen > > Right you are! Even my "main" machine, which is running Linux till I comfortable with FreeBSD was given to me. Had been scavenged, but I spent about $20 for 48MB of RAM, and $130 for a 30GB drive, and it worked so well that I went ahead and sprung for a new 17" monitor for it, picked that up for $140. So for under $300 you have a nice shiny new monitor, disk space till the cows come home, and memory enough to handle even X quite comfortably. It's a 166MHz Pentium, and plenty fast enough running X that I see no need to upgrade. Do you think you would hear someone running Windows in any version over 3.1 that would say the same? And from what I'm reading, FreeBSD should be even a bit faster on here once I switch. Give me your poor, your hungry, your old hardware... :) -- >Lute< Hey! It happens. Well it does... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 17:18:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from omta04.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD62937B71A for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:18:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sphinX@euromedia.ro) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports [216.200.145.62]) by omta04.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACEF84F30C for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:18:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 98F40274B; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:18:24 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:18:24 -0800 (PST) From: sphin X To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: vi for ms-win ??? Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro X-Originating-Ip: [212.120.194.112] Message-Id: <20010324011824.98F40274B@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, do u happen to know if there is any free progie that 'is' vi editor for ms-windows? i only found one but its trialware. just wanna use it at work (under nt) to learn vi... _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 17:31:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (unknown [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948D337B719 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:31:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA90137 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 12:30:15 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 12:30:15 +1100 (EST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <200103240130.MAA90137@phoenix.welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/) FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-CHARTERS) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected to show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 18:22:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dubkat.com (boo.dubkat.com [64.6.178.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8CD7C37B719 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:22:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from go@dubkat.com) Received: (qmail 5993 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 02:22:22 -0000 Received: from c1395547-a.boulder1.co.home.com (HELO GO) (65.10.211.133) by boo.dubkat.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 02:22:22 -0000 Reply-To: From: To: , Subject: RE: vi for ms-win ??? Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:23:22 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <20010324011824.98F40274B@sitemail.everyone.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org vim (Vi IMproved) is available for just about every OS out there. You can find out where to download a copy at www.vim.org, it's free and open source :) -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of sphin X Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 6:18 PM To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: vi for ms-win ??? hi, do u happen to know if there is any free progie that 'is' vi editor for ms-windows? i only found one but its trialware. just wanna use it at work (under nt) to learn vi... _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 18:26:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from omta04.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C50E37B719 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:26:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sphinX@euromedia.ro) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports [216.200.145.62]) by omta04.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 173644F0CF; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:26:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id CE5ED3ECC; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:26:32 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:26:32 -0800 (PST) From: sphin X To: , freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: RE: vi for ms-win ??? Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro X-Originating-Ip: [212.120.194.112] Message-Id: <20010324022632.CE5ED3ECC@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org jason la, y.c.kim, go -- thanx guys...its coming down right now :-) --- > wrote: >vim (Vi IMproved) is available for just about every OS out there. You can >find out where to download a copy at www.vim.org, it's free and open source >:) > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of sphin X >Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 6:18 PM >To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org >Subject: vi for ms-win ??? > > >hi, do u happen to know if there is any free progie that 'is' vi editor for >ms-windows? i only found one but its trialware. > >just wanna use it at work (under nt) to learn vi... > >_____________________________________________________________ >Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 18:44:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f241.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A367C37B71A for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:44:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ronnetron@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:44:29 -0800 Received: from 209.179.94.84 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 02:44:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.179.94.84] From: "Ron Smith" To: sphinX@euromedia.ro Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi for ms-win ??? Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:44:29 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Mar 2001 02:44:29.0870 (UTC) FILETIME=[5963E4E0:01C0B40C] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Try: http://www.nothingreal.com/ --> Downloads --> Goodies. This page contains a public domain 'tcsh' and 'vi' download. Ron >From: sphin X >Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro >To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org >Subject: vi for ms-win ??? >Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:18:24 -0800 (PST) > >hi, do u happen to know if there is any free progie that 'is' vi editor for >ms-windows? i only found one but its trialware. > >just wanna use it at work (under nt) to learn vi... > >_____________________________________________________________ >Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 23:49:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from omta03.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A15737B719 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:49:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sphinX@euromedia.ro) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports [216.200.145.62]) by omta03.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69B3D49206; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:49:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 5925736F9; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:49:12 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:49:12 -0800 (PST) From: sphin X To: "Ron Smith" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi for ms-win ??? Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro X-Originating-Ip: [195.170.15.166] Message-Id: <20010324074912.5925736F9@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org thanx ron. actualy this is a realy good one cause it has the plain vanilla vi, as u would get it on a basic system. --- "Ron Smith" > wrote: >Try: > >http://www.nothingreal.com/ --> Downloads --> Goodies. >This page contains a public domain 'tcsh' and 'vi' download. > >Ron > >>From: sphin X >>Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro >>To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org >>Subject: vi for ms-win ??? >>Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:18:24 -0800 (PST) >> >>hi, do u happen to know if there is any free progie that 'is' vi editor for >>ms-windows? i only found one but its trialware. >> >>just wanna use it at work (under nt) to learn vi... >> >>_____________________________________________________________ >>Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net >> >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Mar 23 23:56:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F05A37B719 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:55:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f2O7tmk34569; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:55:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "David Johnson" , "C. McArdle" Cc: Subject: RE: FreeBSD & GNU Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:55:47 -0800 Message-ID: <001301c0b437$d60f45e0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <3ABBBD01.713C030@acuson.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is rather inaccurate! For starters, there were more than 3 projects. For example, Minix, that was a Unix-line operating system. And, as far as creating from scratch, no way! The overall BSD-ported-from-the-mainframe project was never to build from scratch. It has always been to re-use as much as possible the original free code that was pretty much given to AT&T for free, and AT&T then went out and sold. (often without changing anything or fixing bugs) The big issue today, though, is the "snowball" effect. FreeBSD and Linux have emerged as the most widely used Open Source UNIX-like operating systems in the world. They each feed on each other, because people that don't like one but still want to participate can always choose the other. As a result, more and more people that at one time would have been working on these other UNIX-like variants have given up and jumped on either the FreeBSD or Linux variants. In short, the popularity of these 2 has starved the other projects of talent. Worse, the big reason that people use Linux or FreeBSD instead of, say, a commercial OS like Windows, is because the open source ones have not only implemented all of the "gotta-have" features of the commercial OS's, but they have their own "gotta-have" features that the commercial ones don't have. For example, FreeBSD implemented Network Address Translation for 3 years before Windows NT ever got it. This effect also works against the other projects like HURD (GNU's effort) The reason is that if Stallman goes out and implements some cool, gotta-have feature in Hurd, the second that people decide that it's better than what's already in FreeBSD or Linux, they will then incorporate that feature into those OS's. So, the momentum today is such that those alternative systems will never even have a chance to keep a feature that will attract people for very long. GNU would love to finish it's UNIX effort. So would the founders of the other efforts. But, they are rapidly being left behind in the dust of FreeBSD and Linux and soon are going to be marginalized. If some major commercial software organization was to step in and, say, choose GNU's effort as a base for their code, then it might possibly rejuvinate those projects. But, that's not going to happen now. The last chance for anything like that to happen was when Apple chose the codebase to jumpstart their MacOS X/Darwin effort, and they chose FreeBSD. We are rapidly seeing the institutionalizing of the Open Source software market. Linux has embraced the commercial software houses and their markets and as a result is the furthest along in this process. FreeBSD has kind of held the commercial people at arm's length, but they haven't been actively hostile and our code is so good that the commercial folks are coming in the door in droves anyway. But, the rest of the projects have never embraced the commercial people, in fact been actively hostile at times. (Read Minix's software license to see what I mean) As a result, they are now non-players. It's sad in a way, because FreeBSD and Linux are going down the same road that MS-DOS and Windows went down. We may possibly see people in 10 years writing various treatises like The Cathedral and The Bazzar, only then it's going to be the FreeBSD and Linux people in the Cathedral, and some yet-unknown rising star OS that will be The Bazzar. But, we are years away from that now so it's still a fun game to be in. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of David Johnson >Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:16 PM >To: C. McArdle >Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: Re: FreeBSD & GNU > > >> What is the connection / disconnection between GNU and BSD UNIX? > >To my knowledge, there were only three projects (not counting spurs and >variants) to create free Unix-like operating systems from scratch, GNU, >BSD and Linux. Only BSD finished their task. GNU is almost done, but has >not finished the key component, the kernel. Linux took the easy route >and used components from both the GNU and BSD projects. GNU sees no need >to complete the integration of their system, since they say Linux is >really GNU in disguise. And the need to complete Linux disappeared once >the components from the other projects were integrated. > >BSD tends to be "pure" in its approach to Unix. GNU seems to be obsessed >with adding extensions to Unix, though they try to keep compatibility >with the basic Unix command set. Linux does whatever strikes the >distributors' fancy. > >The philosophies behind the three are the greatest differences. BSD just >wants to create a quality work. GNU wants to "free" people from the >evils of proprietary software. Linux wants to have fun hacking on code. > >In actuality, all three projects have used pieces from the other two. >But beyond that, all three have used components for other non-OS >projects, like XFree86, Perl, Apache, etc. > >David > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 24 3:27:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from omta03.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B77D37B71B for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 03:27:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sphinX@euromedia.ro) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports [216.200.145.62]) by omta03.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 718CD492FF; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 03:27:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 0F83836F9; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 03:27:39 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 03:27:39 -0800 (PST) From: sphin X To: "Andrey Nepomnyaschih" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: ntfs - question - Done Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro X-Originating-Ip: [195.170.15.167] Message-Id: <20010324112739.0F83836F9@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi andrey. just to thnk u for ur info...the thing worked ok. as u said: sh MAKEDEV /ad1s5 and mounted ok. thanx again for helping out --- "Andrey Nepomnyaschih" > wrote: >Hello, > >OK, just don't know there to start next, but what kernel do you use, if you >compiled own kernel have you included the line: >options NTFS > >if not, just don't know maybe cd /dev && sh MAKEDEV /ad1s5 will work. > >Take care > >Andrey Nepomnyaschih >nas@asystems.lv > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sphin X [mailto:sphinX@euromedia.ro] >Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 10:02 AM >To: Andrey Nepomnyaschih; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: RE: ntfs - question > > >Andrey, doesnt seem to work man... > >i only get ad1s1 to ad1s4. ad1s1 is c:. all others give invalid argument... > >i'll probably have to do more drastic ways. > >take care > >--- "Andrey Nepomnyaschih" >> wrote: >>Hello, >> >>Assuming that you created your drive d: in extended partion, it should have >>name /dev/ad0s5 >> >>so to mount it you will need to run: >>mount -t ntfs /dev/ad0s5 /ntfs_d >> >>if drive d is another primary partion then try to mount /dev/ad0s2, >>/dev/ad0s3, /dev/ad0s4 >> >>if it won't work try to run >>ls /dev/ | grep ^ad0s >> >>The output should give you a clue whether partion could go. >> >>Have a good time, >> >>Andrey Nepomnyaschih >>nas@asystems.lv >> >>BTW. Don't forget to change all ad0 to ad1, nt was installed on the second >>drive. >> >> >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > >_____________________________________________________________ >Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 24 9:49:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from daemon.kingsqueak.org (cc737825-a.etntwn1.nj.home.com [65.8.90.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B87137B71B for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 09:49:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drmoreau@kingsqueak.org) Received: (from drmoreau@localhost) by daemon.kingsqueak.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f2OHnln06763; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 12:49:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from drmoreau) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 12:49:47 -0500 From: Chris To: sphin X Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi for ms-win ??? Message-ID: <20010324124947.A6648@daemon.kingsqueak.org> References: <20010324074912.5925736F9@sitemail.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010324074912.5925736F9@sitemail.everyone.net>; from sphinX@euromedia.ro on Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 11:49:12PM -0800 X-Mailer: Mutt http://www.mutt.org/ X-Uptime: 14:47 X-URL: http://www.kingsqueak.org/ X-Accept-Language: en X-Editor: Vim http://www.vim.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Try http://www.redhat.com/cygnus for the cygwin environment and it's optional packages. Among the choices are vim, bash, ash, zsh, perl, python. Essentially you wind up with an alternative to the command-prompt that will behave in a much more familiar way. It is a must whenever I get stuck with an MS workstation for long periods. * sphin X [010324 02:50]: > thanx ron. actualy this is a realy good one cause it has the plain vanilla vi, as u would get it on a basic system. > > --- "Ron Smith" > > wrote: > >Try: > > > >http://www.nothingreal.com/ --> Downloads --> Goodies. > >This page contains a public domain 'tcsh' and 'vi' download. > > > >Ron > > > >>From: sphin X > >>Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro > >>To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org > >>Subject: vi for ms-win ??? > >>Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:18:24 -0800 (PST) > >> > >>hi, do u happen to know if there is any free progie that 'is' vi editor for > >>ms-windows? i only found one but its trialware. > >> > >>just wanna use it at work (under nt) to learn vi... > >> > >>_____________________________________________________________ > >>Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net > >> > >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > _____________________________________________________________ > Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- __ ___ __ / //_(_)__ _http://www.kingsqueak.org _/ /__ / ,< / / _ \/ _ `(_-; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 15:43:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@vivdev.com) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (dhcp043-10-151-24.nt01-c5.cpe.charter-ne.com [24.151.10.43]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24577 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 15:43:02 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: lists@vivdev.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 18:42:58 -0500 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: lists Subject: Re: Need a box, and your experience. Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ........[after reading the thread on RAM for the new used box] How cheap? I am looking at a pentium 90 mhz box at the moment - the main question is the RAM - what kind of RAM do these things take, and how much $ am I going to be looking at? They still making this stuff? >I think I still have a copy of the dealer price quote I got in '95 when I >was building a 486DX2-66 server. I wanted 16MB, and the dealer laughed in >my face. (This was right after Taiwan exploded). RAM was going for $250 per >4MB stick -- the 30 pin kind! I kinda paled at the thought of paying $1000 >for 16MB, and held off for a few months until prices became more >"reasonable". > >-- >Matt > >> Still though, >> >> Back in 1996 when I purchased a whopping 32MB for my IBM 486DX33 it >> was $250. Now I can get the good stuff from Crucial for my A7V >> http://www.crucial.com/store/PartSpecs.asp?imodule=CT32M64S4D7E >> for $95. And only 3 months ago it was $150. Free Shipping too! >> >> -Neill >> >> Saturday, March 24, 2001, 11:22:55 AM, Andrew Hornback wrote: >> ACH> And as for memory being cheap, as I found out yesterday when >I ordered >> ACH> another stick for one of my workstations, the really cheap RAM is >stuff >> ACH> specific to VIA chipsets. Thought I'd found a 256 Meg stick for >$44... >> ACH> turns out it was closer to twice that after I got gouged for >shipping. >> >> ACH> --- Andy > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message thanks, chris lists@vivdev.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 24 17: 6:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from omta04.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F8637B719 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 17:06:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sphinX@euromedia.ro) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (reports [216.200.145.62]) by omta04.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6844FB59; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 17:06:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id C786436F9; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 17:06:46 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 17:06:46 -0800 (PST) From: sphin X To: Chris Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vi for ms-win ??? Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro X-Originating-Ip: [212.120.200.100] Message-Id: <20010325010646.C786436F9@sitemail.everyone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org geeee!!! thats realy cool kingsqueak...u get a whole system with this. thanx a lot man... --- Chris > wrote: >Try http://www.redhat.com/cygnus for the cygwin environment and it's >optional packages. Among the choices are vim, bash, ash, zsh, perl, >python. > >Essentially you wind up with an alternative to the command-prompt that >will behave in a much more familiar way. It is a must whenever I get >stuck with an MS workstation for long periods. > >* sphin X [010324 02:50]: >> thanx ron. actualy this is a realy good one cause it has the plain vanilla vi, as u would get it on a basic system. >> >> --- "Ron Smith" >> > wrote: >> >Try: >> > >> >http://www.nothingreal.com/ --> Downloads --> Goodies. >> >This page contains a public domain 'tcsh' and 'vi' download. >> > >> >Ron >> > >> >>From: sphin X >> >>Reply-To: sphinX@euromedia.ro >> >>To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org >> >>Subject: vi for ms-win ??? >> >>Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:18:24 -0800 (PST) >> >> >> >>hi, do u happen to know if there is any free progie that 'is' vi editor for >> >>ms-windows? i only found one but its trialware. >> >> >> >>just wanna use it at work (under nt) to learn vi... >> >> >> >>_____________________________________________________________ >> >>Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net >> >> >> >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message >> > >> >_________________________________________________________________ >> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com >> > >> > >> >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message >> >> _____________________________________________________________ >> Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > >-- > __ ___ __ > / //_(_)__ _http://www.kingsqueak.org _/ /__ > / ,< / / _ \/ _ `(_-/_/|_/_/_//_/\_, /___/\_, /\_,_/\__/\_,_/_/\_\ > /___/ /_/GPG KEY finger > @daemon.kingsqueak.org > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 24 18:20:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB7E137B739 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 18:20:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@vivdev.com) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (dhcp043-10-151-24.nt01-c5.cpe.charter-ne.com [24.151.10.43]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17504; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 18:20:43 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: lists@vivdev.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001301c0b437$d60f45e0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> References: <3ABBBD01.713C030@acuson.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 21:14:09 -0500 To: tedm@toybox.placo.com From: lists Subject: RE: FreeBSD & GNU Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ted held forth: [snip, edit] >If some major commercial software organization was to step in and, say, >choose GNU's effort as a base for their code, then it might possibly >rejuvinate those projects. >But, that's not going to happen now. The last chance for anything like that >to happen was when Apple chose the codebase to jumpstart their MacOS >X/Darwin effort, >and they chose FreeBSD. > I haven't followed this at all, could you elaborate a bit on the extent to which OS X is FreeBSD? >We are rapidly seeing the institutionalizing of the Open Source software >market. [snip] > >It's sad in a way, because FreeBSD and Linux are going down the same road >that MS-DOS and Windows went down. Could you elaborate on how this is possible? I always understood that DOS was turned into the commercial juggernaut that it became because gates et al controlled the source code. But isn't the source for FreeBSD open? I really do not have a clue here, and it is an interesting forecast on a number of levels. thanks, chris lists@vivdev.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 24 21:22: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0496B37B718 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 21:22:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f2P5Lvk39860; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 21:21:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "lists" Cc: Subject: RE: FreeBSD & GNU Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 21:21:55 -0800 Message-ID: <002d01c0b4eb$82136fc0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >-----Original Message----- >From: lists [mailto:lists@vivdev.com] >>to happen was when Apple chose the codebase to jumpstart their MacOS >>X/Darwin effort, >>and they chose FreeBSD. >> > >I haven't followed this at all, could you elaborate a bit on the extent to >which OS X is FreeBSD? > MacOS X is Apple's new operating system for their Macintoshs. See the following: http://www.apple.com/macosx/ It is built from a mix of NEXT code and FreeBSD 3.2, see http://www.apple.com/darwin/ >>We are rapidly seeing the institutionalizing of the Open Source software >>market. >[snip] >> >>It's sad in a way, because FreeBSD and Linux are going down the same road >>that MS-DOS and Windows went down. > >Could you elaborate on how this is possible? I always understood that DOS >was turned into the commercial juggernaut that it became because gates et >al controlled the source code. No, no NO!!! MS-DOS was NOT turned into a juggernaut because Gates controlled the source code. It was turned into a juggernaut because the PC community decided for a number of reasons (cost, marketing, features, etc.) to standardize on it. > But isn't the source for FreeBSD open? I >really do not have a clue here, and it is an interesting forecast on a >number of levels. > The problem with Windows right now in a nutshell is that the vast majority of Wintel users have standardized on it. I won't go into why, it's not relevent to this discussion. The problem with single-source standardization (or institutionalizing, as it's called) is that once the market has standardized on a single-source, that source normally has absolutely no incentive to continue to improve and upgrade their product, ie: make it better, stronger, faster. Now, in many markets, this is not a problem. For example, take electric power. Well, there's little that can be done to improve the quality of electric power that's sold to end users today. About the only thing that can possibly be done is to offer stuff like more expensive "green" power, and see if people are willing to spend the extra $10 per month to save the salmon. (in all areas this has been tried people won't spend the extra $10) The same goes for water, sewer, etc. But, in the software market it's a severe problem. The institutionalizing of Windows has resulted in successive generations of Windows software that are fatter, slower, more expensive, more bugs, and in general they don't improve the lot of the end user. In the history of marketing, there's never been a single source supplier that has lasted for more than a blink of an eye, just due to this issue. The computer market for mid-level server software has followed this same path. In the past, the market institutionalized "big iron" software like VMS from DEC, and when Vomit Making System began to stagnate, they rejected it and turned to UNIX servers. Then, the UNIX server market stagnated and they rejected it and turned to Novell NetWare 386. Then NetWare stagnated and they turned to Windows NT. Now, Windows NT/2K is starting to stagnate and the market is beginning to turn back to UNIX for mid-level server software. In 5-10 years, UNIX will have ascended and be institutionalized and, if the past is any guide, it will start stagnating again, and someone else's server software will make an entrance. And, so it goes. The one thing that HAS changed in the computer market is that the cycles of ascendency and downfall have gotten longer and longer, much faster. This is directly due to the number of computers - the more of them the more sluggish and evolutionary the market responds. However, don't make the mistake that is always repeated and think that just because the computer market has gotten elephantine, that it's stopped responding to the problems of a monopolistic supplier. One of the biggest problems we have today in the market is with hardware suppliers like Dell that force the user to purchase Microsoft Windows with purchase of a new system. The reason this happens is because Microsoft has signed a deal with Dell to where they will sell OEM Windows to Dell at $20 a copy - Dell is then permitted to sell the copies for $100. There is nothing wrong with this except the catch is that the contract requires Dell to sell _a windows copy of some sort_ with ALL of their hardware systems. It is this kind of contract language that the Justice Department lawsuit is aimed at stopping. Do you realize that once the Supreme Court has upheld the judgement against Microsoft (which is what eventually is going to happen) even if the company is not broken up, that once they are defined as a monopoly, that contracts like this between Dell and Microsoft will be illegal. It will then be possible for a Class Action lawsuit to be filed against Dell by all Dell purchasers that will force Dell to make millions of dollars in payments to people that return their Windows licenses and sign a statement guarenteeing that they don't use Windows (and use Linux or something like that) Once that happens it is going to guarentee that all major name-brand suppliers of PC hardware will stop requiring users to purchase Windows with purchase of a new system. This is the scenario that Microsoft fears far more than simply splitting up the company. Once they can no longer force Windows down the market's throat, you will start seeing Windows penetration figures drop from the mid 90% down to 60% within a year. This is also why suppliers like Compaq are now offering Linux as an OS choice. For example, I own a copy of Windows 98 on a system that I bought a year ago. Next year I buy a new Compaq intended to replace my current system - and since I want to still run Windows 98 on it, I simply specify Linux as the OS and thus I don't have to pay twice for the Windows 98 license. Now, granted, the user that I sell my old system to will not have a Windows license for it, but that's his problem. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 24 22:40:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2ED037B71A for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 22:40:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stuyman@confusion.net) Received: from confusion.net (user-2ivec4j.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.48.147]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA20796; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 01:40:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3ABD92F2.2355C13A@confusion.net> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 01:40:50 -0500 From: Laurence Berland X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: lists , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD & GNU References: <002d01c0b4eb$82136fc0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org First off, in case anyone is interested, there's a great map of unix history at http://perso.wanadoo.fr/levenez/unix/ I had printed this out last summer, and we hung it in the office under the heading "edumakayshun" or some such. Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: lists [mailto:lists@vivdev.com] > > >>to happen was when Apple chose the codebase to jumpstart their MacOS > >>X/Darwin effort, > >>and they chose FreeBSD. > >> > > > >I haven't followed this at all, could you elaborate a bit on the extent to > >which OS X is FreeBSD? > > > > MacOS X is Apple's new operating system for their Macintoshs. See the > following: > > http://www.apple.com/macosx/ > > It is built from a mix of NEXT code and FreeBSD 3.2, see > > http://www.apple.com/darwin/ > I think there's also some NetBSD in there at some point, and lest we forget, via NeXT we get Mach. > >>We are rapidly seeing the institutionalizing of the Open Source software > >>market. > >[snip] > >> > >>It's sad in a way, because FreeBSD and Linux are going down the same road > >>that MS-DOS and Windows went down. > > > >Could you elaborate on how this is possible? I always understood that DOS > >was turned into the commercial juggernaut that it became because gates et > >al controlled the source code. > > No, no NO!!! MS-DOS was NOT turned into a juggernaut because Gates > controlled the > source code. It was turned into a juggernaut because the PC community > decided > for a number of reasons (cost, marketing, features, etc.) to standardize on > it. > Part of this, of course, has to do with Gates's ruthless (and unethical/illegal) business practices. > > But isn't the source for FreeBSD open? I > >really do not have a clue here, and it is an interesting forecast on a > >number of levels. > > > > The problem with Windows right now in a nutshell is that the vast majority > of Wintel > users have standardized on it. I won't go into why, it's not relevent to > this > discussion. The problem with single-source standardization (or > institutionalizing, as it's called) is that once the market has standardized > on a single-source, that source normally has absolutely no incentive to > continue to improve and upgrade their product, ie: make it better, stronger, > faster. > > Now, in many markets, this is not a problem. For example, take electric > power. Well, > there's little that can be done to improve the quality of electric power > that's > sold to end users today. About the only thing that can possibly be done is > to offer > stuff like more expensive "green" power, and see if people are willing to > spend the > extra $10 per month to save the salmon. (in all areas this has been tried > people > won't spend the extra $10) The same goes for water, sewer, etc. > > But, in the software market it's a severe problem. The institutionalizing > of Windows has resulted in successive generations of Windows software that > are > fatter, slower, more expensive, more bugs, and in general they don't improve > the lot of the end user. > > In the history of marketing, there's never been a single source supplier > that has lasted for more than a blink of an eye, just due to this issue. > The computer market > for mid-level server software has followed this same path. In the past, the > market institutionalized "big iron" software like VMS from DEC, and when > Vomit Making System began to stagnate, they rejected it and turned to UNIX > servers. Then, the UNIX server market stagnated and they rejected it and > turned to Novell NetWare 386. Then NetWare stagnated and they turned to > Windows NT. > > Now, Windows NT/2K is starting to stagnate and the market is beginning to > turn back to UNIX for mid-level server software. In 5-10 years, UNIX will > have ascended and be institutionalized and, if the past is any guide, it > will start stagnating again, and someone else's server software will make an > entrance. And, so it goes. > > The one thing that HAS changed in the computer market is that the cycles of > ascendency and downfall have gotten longer and longer, much faster. This is > directly due to the number of computers - the more of them the more sluggish > and evolutionary the market responds. However, don't make the mistake that > is always repeated and think that just because the computer market has > gotten elephantine, that it's stopped responding to the problems of a > monopolistic supplier. Standardization isn't always bad. FreeBSD would tend not to stagnate I suspect, because the people writing it are also some of the people using it. They want new features, they write new features. Open source publicly developed software is much more resistive to this effect. Also note, I think it's sad that people are so shortsighted and selfish to not spend the ten dollars and save the salmon. > > One of the biggest problems we have today in the market is with hardware > suppliers like Dell that force the user to purchase Microsoft Windows with > purchase of a new system. The reason this happens is because Microsoft has > signed a deal with Dell to where they will sell OEM Windows to Dell at $20 a > copy - Dell is then permitted to sell the copies for $100. There is nothing > wrong with this except the catch is that the contract requires Dell to sell > _a windows copy of some sort_ with ALL of their hardware systems. It is > this kind of contract language that the Justice Department lawsuit is aimed > at stopping. > > Do you realize that once the Supreme Court has upheld the judgement against > Microsoft > (which is what eventually is going to happen) even if the company is not > broken up, that once they are defined as a monopoly, that contracts like > this between Dell and Microsoft will be illegal. It will then be possible > for a Class Action lawsuit to be filed against Dell by all Dell purchasers > that will force Dell to make millions of dollars in payments to people that > return their Windows licenses and sign a statement guarenteeing that they > don't use Windows (and use Linux or something like that) Once that happens > it is going to guarentee that all major name-brand suppliers of PC hardware > will stop requiring users to purchase Windows with purchase of a new system. It gets better. Anyone who bought a dell can sue, whether they use windows or not, if they paid for that license. They can claim they chose windows because they'd already had a copy and didnt want to incur further cost. Though I suspect it's Microsoft, and not Dell, who you sue. Dell was simply being intimidated by MS's illegal biz practice (at least in legalistic theory) > > This is the scenario that Microsoft fears far more than simply splitting up > the company. Once they can no longer force Windows down the market's > throat, you will > start seeing Windows penetration figures drop from the mid 90% down to 60% > within > a year. > At least in the server market. I suspect desktop transitions will be more gradual. > This is also why suppliers like Compaq are now offering Linux as an OS > choice. For example, I own a copy of Windows 98 on a system that I bought a > year ago. Next year I buy a new Compaq intended to replace my current > system - and since I want to still run Windows 98 on it, I simply specify > Linux as the OS and thus I don't have to pay twice for the Windows 98 > license. Now, granted, the user that I sell my old system to will not have > a Windows license for it, but that's his problem. > MS will try and change all this with their whole product activation scheme. Prediction: This will inconvenience and piss *a lot* of people off, namely almost everyone. It will not stop piracy, the implementation will be as full of swiss cheese as everything else redmond cares to mess up, and in the end they'll alienate a customer base that (as a result of the above mentioned litigation) are no longer being shoved into MS. Make me eat my words, Mr. Ballmer. I dare ya. L > Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com > Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide > Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com Ps: I'm sure you know, but the chapter of the book in DN is still incomplete. I presume it's your publisher, and not you, who has the problem. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- Laurence Berland Intern, Flooz.com Northwestern '04 stuyman@confusion.net http://www.isp.northwestern.edu/~laurence "The world has turned and left me here" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 24 23: 0: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF1837B71B for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 23:00:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lists@vivdev.com) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (dhcp043-10-151-24.nt01-c5.cpe.charter-ne.com [24.151.10.43]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17679; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 22:59:57 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: lists@vivdev.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002d01c0b4eb$82136fc0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 01:59:48 -0500 To: "Ted Mittelstaedt" From: lists Subject: RE: FreeBSD & GNU Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ted - >discussion. The problem with single-source standardization (or >institutionalizing, as it's called) is that once the market has standardized >on a single-source, that source normally has absolutely no incentive to >continue to improve and upgrade their product, ie: make it better, stronger, >faster. > OK, but how would anyone take control of the source in the case of FreeBSD? In the case if FreeBSD, the source is a bunch of volunteers? > >In the history of marketing, there's never been a single source supplier >that has lasted for more than a blink of an eye, just due to this issue. Maybe. How about Ma Bell? Didn't die due to lack of standardization. Died when the monopoly, which was underpinned by protected proprietary technology, was dismantled. >The computer market >for mid-level server software has followed this same path. In the past, the >market institutionalized "big iron" software like VMS from DEC, and when >Vomit Making System began to stagnate, they rejected it and turned to UNIX >servers. Then, the UNIX server market stagnated and they rejected it and >turned to Novell NetWare 386. Then NetWare stagnated and they turned to >Windows NT. > >Now, Windows NT/2K is starting to stagnate and the market is beginning to >turn back to UNIX for mid-level server software. In 5-10 years, UNIX will >have ascended and be institutionalized and, if the past is any guide, it >will start stagnating again, and someone else's server software will make an >entrance. And, so it goes. What you are describing is a situation where one proprietary product has reached it's market potential and then is outmoded by a newer, more competitive product. I don't see how this supports your argument. Also, in the space you are describing, shouldn't there be sun and hp machines? How do these offerings mix? The other thing is that the UNIX they are turning to now includes Linux and BSD, doesn't it? Btw, what is the status of vanilla UNIX? Is NT a dominant player in that market? Seemed late to the party, not better, and frequently to disappoint it's customers. [big snip] >start seeing Windows penetration figures drop from the mid 90% down to 60% >within a year. Agreed, but I think that if the court had ordered, for some reason, that microsoft make public its source, it would have been doom for microsoft, specifically because developers could bolt the fold en masse and start their own low-overhead, bloatware-creaming windows lookalikes, thereby making a pot of dough exploiting the numerous weaknesses of the behemoth OS, and fragmenting the market. This would indeed be the end of microsoft as we know it. Next thing you know, it'd be WINUX.org and FreeWIN, or some such cabal running the show. By contrast, I don't think that the fact that the small box market happens to be dominated by intel cpu's represents a similar problem, since you can, if you are willing to go to the trouble, boot other stuff on their chip. In this case, you have a standardized architecture, but the results can vary widely. Returning to software, aren't the variant forms of commercial linux supply examples of a business model that uses the standardized software and hardware to it's advantage in pursuing a very different business model? And couldn't you argue that yahoo, for example, has created a massive OS and suite of apps that are recognizable yet unique based on FreeBSD? Btw, what _does_ amazon run on? Microsoft's two main sources of revenue to this day are windows and office. Without the ability to make products that are un-knockoffable due to proprietary information that is not shared with third party (competitive) developers, they would have _no means_ of enforcing their agreements with Dell and others. thanks, chris lists@vivdev.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Mar 24 23:21:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from baku.host4u.net (baku.host4u.net [216.71.64.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3243337B719 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 23:21:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsddiary@baku.host4u.net) Received: (from freebsddiary@localhost) by baku.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA09070; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 01:07:01 -0600 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 01:07:01 -0600 Message-Id: <200103250707.BAA09070@baku.host4u.net> From: Dan Langille To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: The FreeBSD Diary: 2001-03-04 - 2001-03-24 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The FreeBSD Diary contains a large number of practical examples and how-to guides. This message is posted weekly to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org with the aim of letting people know what's available on the website. Before you post a question here it might be a good idea to first search the mailing list archives and/or The FreeBSD Diary . These are the articles posted during this period: 19-Mar : FrontPage 2000 - installing the extensions Sometimes not using the port can work too... http://freebsddiary.org/frontpage2000-installing.html?2 13-Mar : new ipfilter option is really cool! shows the state table like top show the process table http://freebsddiary.org/ifstat-t.html?2 10-Mar : Creating an NTP server with a cheap clock Not really useful outside Europe http://freebsddiary.org/dcf77.html?2 -- Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - http://freebsddiary.org/ - practical examples FreshPorts - http://freshports.org/ - the place for ports To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message