From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sun Mar 25  2:46:49 2001
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From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
To: "Laurence Berland" <stuyman@confusion.net>
Cc: "lists" <lists@vivdev.com>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: FreeBSD & GNU
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 02:46:36 -0800
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: Laurence Berland [mailto:stuyman@confusion.net]

>> http://www.apple.com/macosx/
>>
>> It is built from a mix of NEXT code and FreeBSD 3.2, see
>>
>> http://www.apple.com/darwin/
>>
>
>I think there's also some NetBSD in there at some point, and lest we
>forget, via NeXT we get Mach.
>

That may be but Apple only specifically listed FreeBSD 3.2 and NeXT.  NetBSD
was not mentioned.  I believe this is on the Darwin site (which is down
right
now so I can't verify it)

>> source code.  It was turned into a juggernaut because the PC community
>> decided
>> for a number of reasons (cost, marketing, features, etc.) to
>standardize on
>> it.
>>
>
>Part of this, of course, has to do with Gates's ruthless (and
>unethical/illegal) business practices.
>

I agree his tactics are illegal, but it takes two to tango.  The consumers
did make a choice to use Windows.

Many other people do illegal and ruthless marketing, and even after years of
it they are still getting nowhere.  What really separates Microsoft from
most
companies is that they _didn't_have_ to do all the illegal and ruthless
marketing
yet still did it anyway.  All of the illegal marketing has probably only
taken
them from 80% market penetration to 90% market penetration, and it has
generated
a huge list of enemies.  In fact, of all the problems of Microsoft, this one
thing is their achillies heel.  If they had just done what they did and not
done any of the illegal marketing tactics, but instead made friends, then
all
hope would be lost, they would have a monopoly, and nobody would support
dislodging them.

>
>Standardization isn't always bad.  FreeBSD would tend not to stagnate I
>suspect, because the people writing it are also some of the people using
>it.  They want new features, they write new features.  Open source
>publicly developed software is much more resistive to this effect.
>
>Also note, I think it's sad that people are so shortsighted and selfish
>to not spend the ten dollars and save the salmon.
>

It's even worse that the utilities just don't bundle in the cost of
saving the fish to ALL consumers.  I live in Oregon and this is a serious
issue up here.  Due to the drought BPA is going to lower stream flows and
kill
this years salmon run this summer.  It's either that or rolling blackouts.
If the utilities here had been working on alternative power over the last 10
years like they should have been doing, we would have the extra generating
capacity to bring online and the BPA  wouldn't have had to do this.

If anyone ever tells you that Oregon is this ecology-friendly state, tell
them
they are full of bullshit.  That's the biggest load of crap there is.  When
it because obvious that it was either fish or risking blackouts, there
wasn't a seconds
hesitation, they killed the fish.  The rights of businesses here are
paramount.
There wasn't even a big hue and cry over it.

>
>At least in the server market.  I suspect desktop transitions will be
>more gradual.
>

No, it will be worse because many business still haven't upgraded from
Windows 95.  In fact, businesses are the ones with the tight license
control, and stand to gain the largest dollar amount by not purchasing
new licenses.  Also, businesses can purchase Microsoft Site licenses
in volume which sell the OS at a much cheaper dollar rate and have other
benefits to boot.

>
>Ps:  I'm sure you know, but the chapter of the book in DN is still
>incomplete.  I presume it's your publisher, and not you, who has the
>problem.
>

Unfortunately there's plenty of blame to go around on that one.  Yes,
the publisher shipped out a corrupted chapter file.  Nobody from DN
let me know about it, I had to find that out myself.  I e-mailed
DN about it within 4 hours of the article being posted.  I sent complete
HTML a week later.  Unfortunately, my HTML was horrible, as it came from
a HTML converter on my masters and lacked drawings.  DN was working on
fixing it up.  But, I think they have been working on it less and less.  I
now have the production masters but they are in Quark, and Quark can't
save-as-HTML, so converting it
that way is just as bad.  I'm going to attempt a print-to-EPS-read-with
-ghostview-convert-to-html kind of business next and see what I get.  Death
to Quark!

The upshot of all of it is that despite all of the work done with HTML and
XML and all of those good things with document preparation, they have all
pretty much been lost on the print publishing industry, which is still
grappling with this entire business of electronic document handling.
Even within publishers, there's not a standard for electronic docs.  The
production department likes using Quark because their printer can understand
it.  But, none of the the proofreaders they use has it, and the editorial
staff all seems to not have it either.  One of my first questions was "what
is the preferred document format" well there is no preferred document format
because they have solved that problem - they use paper, and are still
shipping
author's manuscripts around the country _on_paper_.
I originally submitted the manuscript via FTP - and this was a big
problem.  All proofreading and corrections were done _by hand_.  FedEX,
Willamette Paper, and HP Toner sales all made a lot of money off of us.
I just crossed my fingers and hoped that none of the packages got lost,
and fortunately none did.  At least, though, their production department
has gotten smart enough to include all the fonts when they ship out the
document and they use honest-to-God Adobe fonts, not that TrueType trash.


Ted Mittelstaedt                      tedm@toybox.placo.com
Author of:          The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
Book website:         http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sun Mar 25  3:46: 7 2001
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From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
To: "lists" <lists@vivdev.com>
Cc: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: FreeBSD & GNU
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 03:45:46 -0800
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: lists [mailto:lists@vivdev.com]
>>
>
>OK, but how would anyone take control of the source in the case of FreeBSD?
>In the case if FreeBSD, the source is a bunch of volunteers?
>

You just answered your own question - "as long as the source is a bunch of
volunteers"

Who just announced recently they were synchronizing their _commercial_
operating
system code to FreeBSD?  Well, it's BSDi, who also owns Walnut Creek, the
major
FreeBSD distributor.  In a few years, the source won't all be volunteers.

Now, so far there's been no incidents of BSDi going to the FreeBSD project
and
saying "Don't make that change in the kernel there because if you do and we
make it then it will break all our commercial users"  Hopefully that day
will never come, and BSDi will be wise enough to stay out of the Project in
these instances.  But,
there's a lot of crossover of employees at BSDi and contributors to the
Project.
There are certainly going to be instances where this will create conflicts
of
interest on some technical decisions.  While, at the current time I don't
feel that
any of the core FreeBSD Project members would be influenced by such
conflicts,
nobody knows what the future will bring, and it's always a risk to set up
these types of environments where there's a lot of corporate influence.

>>
>>In the history of marketing, there's never been a single source supplier
>>that has lasted for more than a blink of an eye, just due to this issue.
>
>Maybe.  How about Ma Bell?  Didn't die due to lack of standardization.
>Died when the monopoly, which was underpinned by protected proprietary
>technology, was dismantled.
>

Ma Bell was selling a product, dialtone, that for nearly 80 years was
very much like electricity in that it was pretty much unchanging.  As such,
the market could tolerate the lack of innovation, since really there wasn't
anything to innovate.

What set the seeds for Bell's destruction, ironically, was the invention of
the transistor by Bell Labs.  With modern electronics, it became possible to
cheaply and rapidly make all sorts of new consumer telephone devices.  The
first cracks appeared when people attempted to plug in these new devices and
were told by Bell that they wern't allowed to do it.  The market revolted
and forced Ma Bell out of home ownership of the telephone.  (that was a
significant
concession of their market, if you think about it)  The transistor also
permitted modern, reliable and cheap phone switches which allowed the
competitive long distance carriers to take hold and once again the market
revolted when Ma Bell attempted
to block them, the result was the lawsuit.

>What you are describing is a situation where one proprietary product has
>reached it's market potential and then is outmoded by a newer, more
>competitive product.  I don't see how this supports your argument.
>

The catch-22 is that the newer more competitive product is only competitive
precisely because it's NOT the institutionalized standard.  The process of
becoming the standard makes it non-competitive.  Your getting hung up in
the idea that it's the proprietaryness that makes a product non-competitive,
and this simply isn't true.  It's the institutionalizing that makes it
non-competitive.

For example, take Sendmail.  For years Sendmail was the only game in town
in terms of MTA's  But, it became institutionalized, and as such they
didn't drop the obscuficated sendmail.cf config file syntax even when the
original reasons for having such syntax (speed of loading, etc) no longer
were true.  In fast, instead of dumping sendmail.cf, they just applied
even more layering to harden the dependence on sendmail.cf

As a result, people started putting effort into qmail, and other MTA's, and
now those MTA's are taking more and more market share from Sendmail.
Further,
more significantly, products like qmail now have mySQL support, Sendmail
doesen't, better and more integrated spam filtering, and a number of other
features.  All they lack is the track record to be truly proven out like
Sendmail is.  But, they are ahead in the technical aspect, and are
increasing
in share within the UNIX market.

>Also, in the space you are describing, shouldn't there be sun and hp
>machines?  How do these offerings mix?  The other thing is that the UNIX
>they are turning to now includes Linux and BSD, doesn't it?  Btw, what is
>the status of vanilla UNIX?
>

Keep in mind that I'm only outlining a projection of what MIGHT happen,
there's no guarentee that it WILL happen.  It's perfectly possible that
Open Source is such a fundamentally different means of software creation
and distribution that none of the older marketing rules apply, and as such
history can't repeat, because this hasn't been done in history before.  In
fact,
I even make that argument in my book.

I'm lumping all UNIX together, both commercial and Open Source, because I'm
talking about general trends.  I feel in my bones that the wind is changing
again and that corporate interests are much more open now to considering
UNIX
instead of blindly swallowing Windows.  But, many will never be open to
Open Source, and will wish to continue to get those "commercial" systems,
even UNIX, and so Sun and HP and Compaq will have lots to do making products
for those folks.

As far as Vanilla UNIX goes, today there's only 2 kinds of UNIXes - those
blessed
by The Open Group (since they own the trademark to UNIX) as being Real UNIX,
and to get that you have to pay a big fee and implement a bunch of standards
that
nobody uses in your UNIX.  The other are the non-UNIX UNIXes, like FreeBSD
and
Linux, which can't legally be branded UNIX yet implement 80% of what TOG
says a "Real UNIX" is supposed to have.

>Is NT a dominant player in that market?  Seemed late to the party, not
>better, and frequently to disappoint it's customers.
>

NT/2K is _the_ dominent player in mid-level servers today with Linux a close
second.

>
>Returning to software, aren't the variant forms of commercial linux supply
>examples of a business model that uses the standardized software and
>hardware to it's advantage in pursuing a very different business model?

The penetration statistics of the various "brands" of Linux today are
one of the more hotly debated arguments.  I don't have an answer because
I don't know if todays Linux market is that of one single monopolistic
dominant player (ie: Red Hat) with a lot of smaller ones, or all of the
brands have equal penetration.

>And couldn't you argue that yahoo, for example, has created a massive OS
>and suite of apps that are recognizable yet unique based on FreeBSD?

Yes, I don't know if it's relevant, though.  I'm not talking apps, I'm
talking
OS here.

Btw,
>what _does_ amazon run on?
>
>Microsoft's two main sources of revenue to this day are windows and office.
>Without the ability to make products that are un-knockoffable due to
>proprietary information that is not shared with third party (competitive)
>developers, they would have _no means_ of enforcing their agreements with
>Dell and others.
>

Part of this argument is the "DR-DOS" argument and it's been proven to be
fallacious.
DR.DOS was a clone of MS-DOS as you should know.  The idea behind it was to
make
a competitive DOS to MS-DOS and price it cheaper and split the DOS market.
It
never worked because DR-DOS didn't offer any increased functionality over
regular MS-DOS that was significant enough to induce people to switch.
Because it was a clone it retained all of the bad parts of MS-DOS.  Users
all decided that for the slight
benefit of a cheaper OS, that wasn't offset by the potential incomatability.
In short, if your a user who has bought-off on the idea of running all your
apps on DOS, then going the last 10 feet and purchasing the actual Real
McCoy instead of the fake was the smart thing to do.

Extrapolate this to be 2 competitve versions of Windows - the runner-up
would
probably fail for the same reasons.

You are right about one thing - the competitive edge to the Office suite,
though.
Clearly, withholding details that would help Office's competitors certainly
does indicate that Microsoft is actually treating both the OS and the
Application as a
single product.  This means that out of the desktop PC software market, the
actual coverage of the single windows/Office product is far larger.  That
weakens their argument that they are not a monopoly.



Ted Mittelstaedt                      tedm@toybox.placo.com
Author of:          The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
Book website:         http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sun Mar 25  3:55:38 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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From: "Vienkarsi Jautajums" <jautajums@hotmail.com>
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Small HOW TO "fixing timeozne" for those who are forgotten.
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 14:55:20 +0300
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Hi!

Since many ppl uses older FreeBSD boxes and timezone changes appears more 
frequent than "system updates", here comes an easy way to make update for 
timezone files.

------------------------------------------------------------
cd /usr/src/share/zoneinfo
fetch ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2001a.tar.gz
tar zxvf tzdata2001a.tar.gz
make install
tzsetup
------------------------------------------------------------

file you must fetch from ftp must be newest up to date tzdata?????.tar.gz

PS

  why not to make script in share/zoneinfo directory that updates 
automaticly ???

wbr
*Rat
_________________________________________________________________________
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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sun Mar 25  5:50:26 2001
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Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 15:49:51 +0200 (CEST)
From: Heiko Recktenwald <uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
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To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Samba basics ?
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Hi gang, sotosay a practical topic, sorry, that it isnt BSD specific,
but it seems to be the network solution in a mixed network with Macs and
Wintels. If you want to keep it simple. Right ?

What is the minimal samba setup. what do I have to tell the wintel ? Dave
? The minimal smb.conf. How to expand it, what are usefull features, that
one might want to have ? It should still work on all machines.

Currently, I have installed samba on an old Indy, Win98 and our dear and
noble OS on the PC. 

Thanks,

H.


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sun Mar 25 19:29: 3 2001
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From: "Thomas Champion" <thomas@championville.org>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org>
Subject: sendmail problem
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 19:23:26 -0800
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------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0B561.11E74C00
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hello all:

I just sucessfully installed FreeBSD4.2 on my server.  I am now having a =
problem with the my sendmail.
I am able to send remote mail, but am unable to send local mail.  Also, =
when using fetchmail to pull my mail from my ISP, it hangs.  I have =
tested sendmail by "telnet localhost 25" and have found that when there =
is a 'rcpt to: thomas@localhost' i will hang, although when there is a =
'rcpt to: thomas@championville.org' there is no problem (although the =
mail does go to my ISP not to my local mailbox).

I am using the same configuration that I had used on my Slackware server =
at one time (with no problems)

Any help would be appreciated.

Thomas

------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0B561.11E74C00
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hello all:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I just sucessfully installed FreeBSD4.2 on my =
server.&nbsp; I=20
am now having a problem with the my sendmail.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I am able to send remote mail, but am unable to send =
local=20
mail.&nbsp; Also, when using fetchmail to pull my mail from my ISP, it=20
hangs.&nbsp; I have tested sendmail by "telnet localhost 25" and have =
found that=20
when there is a 'rcpt to: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:thomas@localhost'">thomas@localhost'</A>&nbsp;i will =
hang, although=20
when there is a 'rcpt to: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:thomas@championville.org'">thomas@championville.org'</A> =
there is=20
no problem (although the mail does go to my ISP not to my local=20
mailbox).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I am using the same configuration that I had used on =
my=20
Slackware server at one time (with no problems)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Any help would be appreciated.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thomas</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sun Mar 25 19:40:43 2001
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From: Rick Hamell <hamellr@heorot.1nova.com>
To: Thomas Champion <thomas@championville.org>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: sendmail problem
In-Reply-To: <011b01c0b5a4$36c33280$2801a8c0@telocity.com>
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> I just sucessfully installed FreeBSD4.2 on my server.  I am now having a problem with the my sendmail.
> I am able to send remote mail, but am unable to send local mail.  Also, when using fetchmail to pull my mail from my ISP, it hangs.  I have tested sendmail by "telnet localhost 25" and have found that when there is a 'rcpt to: thomas@localhost' i will hang, although when there is a 'rcpt to: thomas@championville.org' there is no problem (although the mail does go to my ISP not to my local mailbox).
> 
> I am using the same configuration that I had used on my Slackware server at one time (with no problems)
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.

	Please ask questions on -questions... that's what it's
for. -Newbies is not for asking technical questions of any type. :)

	Rick


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sun Mar 25 23: 8:32 2001
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 freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:55:32 +0800 (WST)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:07:42 +1000
From: das@mbox.com.au
Subject: RE: FreeBSD & GNU
To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
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Hi Guys,

Lots of interesting arguments in this chain.

I have two points to add:
-Software delivery is becoming predominantly NETWORKED.
-Unix is very diverse.


-Software delivery is becoming predominantly NETWORKED.

We are moving into a bit of a different era with software delivery.  
FreeBSD guys are able to get updates of our software daily.  We do not 
get a CD once, and if we remember download the service pack(s).


-Unix is very diverse.

I propose that the UNIX world is more diverse than this mail chain 
seems to suggest.  

Many FreeBSD people use Net and Open variants depending on the 
application.

Users of the various unix OSes don't all implement their systems in the 
same way.
Eg.  Some use ipfilter, while others use ipfw.

Culture and education seem to effect the way people around the world 
use unix.
Eg.  I'm told people in Australia are more likely to be 'vi' users, 
unlike the US where 'emacs' is very popular.


This diversity means that no single OS will rule.  The best bits from 
each cross pollinate.

Both these arguments mean that OSes in the future will not stagnate.  
It is constant evolution.


Thanks,

Dave Seddon


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar 26 11:12:33 2001
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To: Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
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Subject: Re: FreeBSD & GNU
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Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> 
> This is rather inaccurate!
> 
> For starters, there were more than 3 projects.  For example, Minix, that
> was a Unix-line operating system.

I didn't include Minix for two reason: 1) is wasn't open source or free;
2) it was meant to be a "teaching" OS rather than a production OS. I
also didn't include Xinu for the same reasons.

> ...The overall BSD-ported-from-the-mainframe project was never to
> build from scratch.  It has always been to re-use as much as possible the
> original free code that was pretty much given to AT&T for free, and AT&T
> then went out and sold.

This isn't that different from GNU or Linux (the distributions). GNU
always preferred to use existing code rather than write from scratch.

Perhaps I would have been a bit more accurate by saying "386BSD" instead
of just "BSD". I meant the nearest common ancestor of FreeBSD, OpenBSD,
NetBSD and BSD/OS.

> This effect also works against the other projects like HURD  (GNU's effort)
> The reason is that if Stallman goes out and implements some cool, gotta-have
> feature in Hurd, the second that people decide that it's better than what's
> already in FreeBSD or Linux, they will then incorporate that feature into
> those OS's.

I think that, in part, this is one reason that RMS wants everyone to
refer to Linux at GNU/Linux, LiGnuX, or whatever the term du jour is. If
he gets everyone thinking that Linux is really GNU, then it's that much
easier to get people using HURD and the real GNU OS.

You are correct. Why use an unstable HURD when linux is working right
now? In a broader sense, why use The GNU System when everything I want
from GNU is already available in BSD and Linux? But right now it seems
that they only people interested in HURD is the "monolithic kernels are
evil" crowd (and to a lesser extent, the "Linus doesn't believe as we
do" crowd).

David

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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar 26 20:42:12 2001
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:36:16 -0500
From: "Jorge Mario G." <vadersolo@hotpop.com>
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hi there
my problme is this:
i add VESA suport to my kenrnel 4.2

options VESA

the i add thi to my rc.conf :

font8x8="/usr/share/syscons/fonts/iso02-8x8.fnt"
allscreens_flags="132x43"

but when i boot i see this error:
MODE NOT SUPPORTED BY DEVICE

should i make "sh MAKEDEV *something*"????????????
thanx



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar 26 22:20:16 2001
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Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:17:32 +0200
From: Denis J.Cirulis <monster@okb.lv>
To: "Jorge Mario G." <vadersolo@hotpop.com>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: VESA SUPPORT
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On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:36:16 -0500
"Jorge Mario G." <vadersolo@hotpop.com> wrote:

JMG> i add VESA suport to my kenrnel 4.2
JMG> 
JMG> options VESA
JMG> 
JMG> the i add thi to my rc.conf :
JMG> 
JMG> font8x8="/usr/share/syscons/fonts/iso02-8x8.fnt"
JMG> allscreens_flags="132x43"
JMG> 
JMG> but when i boot i see this error:
JMG> MODE NOT SUPPORTED BY DEVICE
JMG> 
JMG> should i make "sh MAKEDEV *something*"????????????
JMG> thanx

I had the same problem due to what i changed my system back to linux. Nobody can help and all the answears were "Go and get more powerfull hardware" 
My video adapters were ATI Rage128 and ATI Mach64. 
I was lucky to get 132x43 mode , but my goal was to get VESA_1024x768 so I understood that i can't use fbsd on my desktop. 
Advice : try to ask this question in freebsd-hackers

--
Just GNU it.

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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Mon Mar 26 22:45:34 2001
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From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
To: "David Johnson" <djohnson@acuson.com>
Cc: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: FreeBSD & GNU
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:45:27 -0800
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
>[mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of David Johnson
>
>I didn't include Minix for two reason: 1) is wasn't open source or free;
>2) it was meant to be a "teaching" OS rather than a production OS. I
>also didn't include Xinu for the same reasons.
>

:-)  Actually, years back FreeBSD _was_ meant to be a "teaching" OS rather
than a
production OS.  Today, of course, most of the vestiges of this have been
eliminated but I'll quote here the wording of /sys/i386/isa/mcdreg.h in
FreeBSD 4.2  (this is an older file and hasn't been touched by the kernel
people apparently):

 *      This software was developed by Holger Veit and Brian Moore
 *      for use with "386BSD" and similar operating systems.
 *    "Similar operating systems" includes mainly non-profit oriented
 *    systems for research and education, including but not restricted to
 *    "NetBSD", "FreeBSD", "Mach" (by CMU).

If you look at older versions of FreeBSD, such as 2.2 and 2.1 and 1.1 you
will see
a lot more of this, espically in code that William Jolitz wrote/modified.
He put
a lot of "not intended as commercial OS" stuff in the headers of the code,
most of
this has been exorcised from current files, of course.

>> ...The overall BSD-ported-from-the-mainframe project was never to
>> build from scratch.  It has always been to re-use as much as possible the
>> original free code that was pretty much given to AT&T for free, and AT&T
>> then went out and sold.
>
>This isn't that different from GNU or Linux (the distributions). GNU
>always preferred to use existing code rather than write from scratch.
>
>Perhaps I would have been a bit more accurate by saying "386BSD" instead
>of just "BSD". I meant the nearest common ancestor of FreeBSD, OpenBSD,
>NetBSD and BSD/OS.
>

Actually, 386BSD first version = FreeBSD first version.  The name FreeBSD
was only coined because Jolitz trademarked 386BSD and refused to allow it
to be used due to some tiff or other.  Later he relented but it was too
late then.

>
>I think that, in part, this is one reason that RMS wants everyone to
>refer to Linux at GNU/Linux, LiGnuX, or whatever the term du jour is. If
>he gets everyone thinking that Linux is really GNU, then it's that much
>easier to get people using HURD and the real GNU OS.
>

Well I have to say that the Linux camp was just as good at sucking
the publicity from the GNU/GCC people in the beginning, now things
are the other way around so they deserve what they are getting.

>You are correct. Why use an unstable HURD when linux is working right
>now? In a broader sense, why use The GNU System when everything I want
>from GNU is already available in BSD and Linux?

Because the whole point of all this is pure experimentation, right? :-)

I think this kind of logic is just more evidence that FreeBSD and Linux
have moved out of the techie's workbench and into mainstream.  Time was that
nobody cared that your FreeBSD server had 400 days uptime - the fact that
it ran at all was cause for celebration.

>But right now it seems
>that they only people interested in HURD is the "monolithic kernels are
>evil" crowd

Which is a riot because the modern FreeBSD has moved very far away from that
with all of the loadable kernel module code.


Ted Mittelstaedt                      tedm@toybox.placo.com
Author of:          The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
Book website:         http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Tue Mar 27  7:33:17 2001
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Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:15:01 +0100
From: Nik Clayton <nik@freebsd.org>
To: Lute Mullenix <lute@willinet.net>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: Just getting started
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On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 07:55:04PM -0600, Lute Mullenix wrote:
> I do have a couple of questions to start off with though. First on boot u=
p I
> get a message about boot sector write, possible virus. This being a fresh
> install off the CD I figure there isn't a virus, so I just tell it to
> continue. How can I make it stop giving me this warning?=20

Almost certainly a setting in your PCs BIOS.  You'll need to check
there.

> Second, the install
> hangs for a long time when it gets to the part of:
> starting standard daemons: inetd cron sendmail
>=20
> Is that normal?

It's a DNS timeout.  Searching the mailing list archives for "DNS
sendmail timeout" should turn up the information you need.

> After checking out the web site a few times, I don't see any reason why
> FreeBSD can't be used as my only OS, it seems to have all the ports that =
are
> needed to have a completely functioning system, and that is what I hope to
> accomplish. I do have one hang-up though, it must be all native FreeBSD c=
ode
> apps. No Linux binarys. Don't foresee a problem there though since in goi=
ng
> through the web site, it seems my most used stuff has been ported, the
> exception being Netscape. Don't really like Mozilla at this point, but may
> have to learn to live with it.

There's a BSD/OS version of Netscape which also runs on FreeBSD.

N
--=20
FreeBSD: The Power to Serve             http://www.freebsd.org/
FreeBSD Documentation Project           http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/

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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Tue Mar 27 11:36:21 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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From: "Potts, Ross" <rpotts@harris.com>
To: 'Nik Clayton' <nik@freebsd.org>,
	Lute Mullenix <lute@willinet.net>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: RE: Just getting started
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:35:54 -0500
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You can set Linux compatibility in the install if there is something you want
from linux that isn't in there(not likely).  Or after your box is setup,
reconfigure the kernel.  Check the handbook.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nik Clayton [mailto:nik@freebsd.org]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:15 AM
To: Lute Mullenix
Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Just getting started


On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 07:55:04PM -0600, Lute Mullenix wrote:
> I do have a couple of questions to start off with though. First on boot up I
> get a message about boot sector write, possible virus. This being a fresh
> install off the CD I figure there isn't a virus, so I just tell it to
> continue. How can I make it stop giving me this warning? 

Almost certainly a setting in your PCs BIOS.  You'll need to check
there.

> Second, the install
> hangs for a long time when it gets to the part of:
> starting standard daemons: inetd cron sendmail
> 
> Is that normal?

It's a DNS timeout.  Searching the mailing list archives for "DNS
sendmail timeout" should turn up the information you need.

> After checking out the web site a few times, I don't see any reason why
> FreeBSD can't be used as my only OS, it seems to have all the ports that are
> needed to have a completely functioning system, and that is what I hope to
> accomplish. I do have one hang-up though, it must be all native FreeBSD code
> apps. No Linux binarys. Don't foresee a problem there though since in going
> through the web site, it seems my most used stuff has been ported, the
> exception being Netscape. Don't really like Mozilla at this point, but may
> have to learn to live with it.

There's a BSD/OS version of Netscape which also runs on FreeBSD.

N
-- 
FreeBSD: The Power to Serve             http://www.freebsd.org/
FreeBSD Documentation Project           http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/

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From: Heiko Recktenwald <uzs106@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
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> Currently, I have installed samba on an old Indy, Win98 and our dear and
> noble OS on the PC. 

The tricky part of it was the windoze side. You have to create users and
to disable WINS, but I am not shure ;-)

One thing I dont fully understand is what are the pros and cons against
passwords ? The samba password should be different from the unix password,
since it is less secure. And unix home accounts shouldnt be used with
samba ?

H.


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar 28  5:23:45 2001
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We need to devide culture... yours too...
Please accept it, connecting you to www.humanahom.com

If you need further informations about us or our project, please connect you 
to our site or simply reply to this mail.

If culture doesn't interess you, choose "optout" option, by replying to this 
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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Wed Mar 28  7:42: 2 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:42:00 -0800 (PST)
From: ardi <reddish41@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: VESA SUPPORT
To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <3AC018BF.FF7974A5@hotpop.com>
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exactly what is the meaning of VESA itself
im very newbie here, in boot up i see that my VGA card
support VESA BIOS
can someone explain about this
thx

--- "Jorge Mario G." <vadersolo@hotpop.com> wrote:
> hi there
> my problme is this:
> i add VESA suport to my kenrnel 4.2
> 
> options VESA
> 
> the i add thi to my rc.conf :
> 
> font8x8="/usr/share/syscons/fonts/iso02-8x8.fnt"
> allscreens_flags="132x43"
> 
> but when i boot i see this error:
> MODE NOT SUPPORTED BY DEVICE
> 
> should i make "sh MAKEDEV *something*"????????????
> thanx
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of
> the message
> 
> 
> 


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar 29  1:45:20 2001
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Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 01:39:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Annelise Anderson <andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu>
To: Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@toybox.placo.com>
Cc: Laurence Berland <stuyman@confusion.net>,
	lists <lists@vivdev.com>, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: RE: FreeBSD & GNU
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On Sun, 25 Mar 2001, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> >Ps:  I'm sure you know, but the chapter of the book in DN is still
> >incomplete.  I presume it's your publisher, and not you, who has the
> >problem.
> >
> 
> Unfortunately there's plenty of blame to go around on that one.  Yes,
> the publisher shipped out a corrupted chapter file.  Nobody from DN
> let me know about it, I had to find that out myself.  I e-mailed
> DN about it within 4 hours of the article being posted.  I sent complete
> HTML a week later.  Unfortunately, my HTML was horrible, as it came from
> a HTML converter on my masters and lacked drawings.  DN was working on
> fixing it up.  But, I think they have been working on it less and less.  I
> now have the production masters but they are in Quark, and Quark can't
> save-as-HTML, so converting it
> that way is just as bad.  I'm going to attempt a print-to-EPS-read-with
> -ghostview-convert-to-html kind of business next and see what I get.  Death
> to Quark!

Quark can produce PDF--Portable Document Format--though, which is pretty
good to read on screen, search, add comments to, etc.--probably a good
electronic approach to author's corrections etc.  We got in a real mess
with an index, and the publisher gave us the Quark docs, and we got them
converted to PDF--we all had, of course, Acrobat readers.  The files were
too large for email but we  we transferred them by ftp to various
locations.  (Still ended up faxing corrections page by page.)

Adobe Acrobat wouldn't seem to lend itself to conversion to HTML, though.

	Annelise
 
> The upshot of all of it is that despite all of the work done with HTML and
> XML and all of those good things with document preparation, they have all
> pretty much been lost on the print publishing industry, which is still
> grappling with this entire business of electronic document handling.
> Even within publishers, there's not a standard for electronic docs.  The
> production department likes using Quark because their printer can understand
> it.  But, none of the the proofreaders they use has it, and the editorial
> staff all seems to not have it either.  One of my first questions was "what
> is the preferred document format" well there is no preferred document format
> because they have solved that problem - they use paper, and are still
> shipping
> author's manuscripts around the country _on_paper_.
> I originally submitted the manuscript via FTP - and this was a big
> problem.  All proofreading and corrections were done _by hand_.  FedEX,
> Willamette Paper, and HP Toner sales all made a lot of money off of us.
> I just crossed my fingers and hoped that none of the packages got lost,
> and fortunately none did.  At least, though, their production department
> has gotten smart enough to include all the fonts when they ship out the
> document and they use honest-to-God Adobe fonts, not that TrueType trash.
> 
> 
> Ted Mittelstaedt                      tedm@toybox.placo.com
> Author of:          The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
> Book website:         http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
> 


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar 29 10:20:43 2001
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From: "J.Goodleaf" <john@goodleaf.net>
To: newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: What is that ^M character?
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:31:44 GMT
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Hello,

I have a file I'm playing with, output from a windoze based database 
application. When I open it in vi or emacs it's loaded with ^M characters. 
What the heck are those? Anyone have perl or shell scripts that would allow 
me to strip them out or put them in? 

Thanks,
John

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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar 29 10:25: 3 2001
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From: "Yong Lim" <yong@csfi.com>
To: "J.Goodleaf" <john@goodleaf.net>, <newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: RE: What is that ^M character?
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:26:15 -0500
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Go here:  http://www.freebsddiary.org/control-m.html

Yong


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
[mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of J.Goodleaf
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 1:32 PM
To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: What is that ^M character?


Hello,

I have a file I'm playing with, output from a windoze based database
application. When I open it in vi or emacs it's loaded with ^M characters.
What the heck are those? Anyone have perl or shell scripts that would allow
me to strip them out or put them in?

Thanks,
John

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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar 29 10:25: 7 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:15:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Linh Pham <lplist@closedsrc.org>
To: "J.Goodleaf" <john@goodleaf.net>
Cc: <newbies@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: What is that ^M character?
In-Reply-To: <20010329183144.635AE5C11@clyde.goodleaf.net>
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On 2001-03-29, J.Goodleaf scribbled:

# I have a file I'm playing with, output from a windoze based database
# application. When I open it in vi or emacs it's loaded with ^M characters.
# What the heck are those? Anyone have perl or shell scripts that would allow
# me to strip them out or put them in?

Windows text files include both the carriage return (CR) and the line
feed (LF) to represent a newline. UNIX only uses the line feed (LF) if
I'm correct... and the ^M ``character'' would represent the line feed
character.

There is a port in FreeBSD called dos2unix (or vice versa) that will
allow you to convert between DOS/Windows based files to UNIX style files
and the other way around. There are other ways of doing via sed, vi, tr,
Emacs, etc.

-- 
Linh Pham
[lplist@closedsrc.org]

// 404b - Brain not found


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Thu Mar 29 22: 4:15 2001
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From: dmp <dmp@pantherdragon.org>
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To: Linh Pham <lplist@closedsrc.org>
Cc: "J.Goodleaf" <john@goodleaf.net>, newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: What is that ^M character?
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Linh Pham wrote:
> 
> On 2001-03-29, J.Goodleaf scribbled:
> 
> # I have a file I'm playing with, output from a windoze based database
> # application. When I open it in vi or emacs it's loaded with ^M characters.
> # What the heck are those? Anyone have perl or shell scripts that would allow
> # me to strip them out or put them in?
> 
> Windows text files include both the carriage return (CR) and the line
> feed (LF) to represent a newline. UNIX only uses the line feed (LF) if
> I'm correct... and the ^M ``character'' would represent the line feed
> character.

The ^M is the CR.  DOS text files also have a ^Z (EOF char) at the end
of the
file.  Windows do not have the ^Z.

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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar 30  1:38:48 2001
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:38:36 +0400
From: Nugzar Nebieridze <nugzar@mbg.com.ge>
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Subject: How to find out version of BIND remotely??
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Hello All,

May by my question is not about FreeBSD itself, but does anyone know
how to find out version of BIND with nslookup?

I upgraded my BIND 8.2.2-p5 to 8.2.3 REL and want to find out if the
correct version is running. "named -v" is ok, but I'd like to learn
about nslookup, and more, can I spoof the version of bind?

If this question was already posted please shend me the link to
answers.

Thank you

Nugzar Nebieridze



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar 30  1:42:47 2001
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:42:40 +0200
From: Martin Hasenbein <mh-freebsd-newbies@space.Net>
To: Nugzar Nebieridze <nugzar@mbg.com.ge>
Cc: newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: How to find out version of BIND remotely??
Message-ID: <20010330114240.I47725@Space.Net>
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Nugzar Nebieridze (nugzar@mbg.com.ge) wrote:
% Hello All,
% 
% May by my question is not about FreeBSD itself, but does anyone know
% how to find out version of BIND with nslookup?
% 
% I upgraded my BIND 8.2.2-p5 to 8.2.3 REL and want to find out if the
% correct version is running. "named -v" is ok, but I'd like to learn
% about nslookup, and more, can I spoof the version of bind?
% 
% If this question was already posted please shend me the link to
% answers.
% 
% Thank you
% 
% Nugzar Nebieridze
% 
% 
% 
% To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
% with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message

Hi,

dig txt chaos version.bind @ip-adress_of_the_remote_nameserver

\martin

-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------------
               Martin Hasenbein  Phone (Fax): (+49) 89 1216376-1 (3)
     \|/       Weiglstr.9	 mailto:martin@hasenbein.com        
     @ @       D-80636 München	 http://martin.hasenbein.com        
-oOO-(_)-OOo--------------------------------------------------------

                On the 8th day, god created Unix ;-)                

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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar 30  2:59:20 2001
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Friday, March 30, 2001, 1:42:40 PM, Martin wrote:

MH> Hi,

MH> dig txt chaos version.bind @ip-adress_of_the_remote_nameserver

MH> \martin

Thanks a lot. It works :))

Do you know if I can change displayed version via conf file??


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar 30  6:47:35 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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To: Martin Hasenbein <mh-freebsd-newbies@space.Net>,
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Subject: Re: Re[2]: How to find out version of BIND remotely??
References: <9518473173.20010330143836@mbg.com.ge>
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Organization: Norwegian School of Economics and Business Administration
From: Knut.Syed@nhh.no (Knut A. Syed)
Date: 30 Mar 2001 16:47:29 +0200
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Nugzar Nebieridze <nugzar@mbg.com.ge> writes:

> Do you know if I can change displayed version via conf file??

In named.conf:

options {
	version "42";
};

"You can run, but you can not hide."  (I.e. If you are running a
vulnerable this will not make you less vulnerable.)

~kas
--=20
Knut A. Sy=E9d
Senior Executive Officer, Department of Information Technology
Norwegian School of Economics and Business Administration

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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar 30  6:57:41 2001
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Subject: Donation For Earthquake Relief Work
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Format Your Message Here

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Dear Sir,
I am enclosing herewith brochure of BAPS Swaminarayan Sanstha for your =
kind consideration. We are from one of the  Centre - Bhavnagar =
forwarding herewith our genune request for your valuable donation for =
this work. As you know that Bhavnagar is a one of the earthquake =
affected centre in which we are having experience of earthquake tremours =
more than 500 since last 8 months. These tremours inspired us to work =
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3DArial size=3D6><STRONG><FONT =
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Your Message</FONT>&nbsp;Here</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
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</DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#ff0000>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Dear Sir,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I am enclosing herewith brochure of BAPS =
Swaminarayan Sanstha=20
for your kind consideration. We are from one of the&nbsp; Centre - =
Bhavnagar=20
forwarding herewith our&nbsp;genune request for your valuable donation =
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permanant=20
housing facilities. To provide such type of facilities we are requesting =
you to=20
send your valuable donation to one of the best and leading NGO of the =
world and=20
oblige us.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanking you,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Yours faithfully,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hiren&nbsp;Trivedi&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<P>
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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar 30  6:59: 8 2001
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From: Linh Pham <lplist@closedsrc.org>
To: dmp <dmp@pantherdragon.org>
Cc: "J.Goodleaf" <john@goodleaf.net>, <newbies@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: What is that ^M character?
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On 2001-03-29, dmp scribbled:

# The ^M is the CR.  DOS text files also have a ^Z (EOF char) at the end
# of the file.  Windows do not have the ^Z.

Oops... thanks... I knew ^M was CR, but another one of those: the mind
thinks one thing, the hand does another.

-- 
Linh Pham
[lplist@closedsrc.org]

// 404b - Brain not found


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar 30  9:22:19 2001
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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar 30 18:20: 0 2001
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From: "Luiz Henrique" <lhguimaraes@ineparnet.com.br>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Shadow password w FreeBSD 4.2
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:17:46 -0300
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Hi Guys,

Is possible enable shadow support in FreeBSD 4.2 (Like Linux) ? If yes, when
i make this?

Sorry, but my english is terrible. :-(

Thanks,


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar 30 18:31:10 2001
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                         FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit
                                       
   (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list.
   It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/)
   
   FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about
   installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests
   are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions.
   
   FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to
   questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies.
   
   FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and
   covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt
   with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on
   our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how
   to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to
   use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories,
   moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the
   FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to
   freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are
   doing the same things that we do as newbies.
   
   One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find
   help when we need it. Here are some suggestions:
   
When something doesn't work the way you expect

    1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at
       http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and
       security advisories.
    2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at
       http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html
    3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of
       `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question
       to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG.
       
Mailing lists

   When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only
   one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG.
   FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as
   more general and advanced questions.
   
   You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a
   question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you
   personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and
   followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them
   different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to
   freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the
   recent questions and their answers.
   
   Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at
   http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer
   FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when
   they get questions which are difficult to understand.
   http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too.
   
   If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and
   ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to
   the support mailing list.
   
   Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing
   list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might
   get the answer right away. It's always worth trying.
   
   Other mailing lists
   (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-CHARTERS)
   cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll
   need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's
   probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for
   advice about where to post a more specialised question.
   
   FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional
   announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick
   Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too.
   
Manuals

   You'll always be expected to show that you have made some effort to
   use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not
   always as easy as it sounds!
   
   If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a
   brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need,
   always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you
   do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction.
   
   Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is
   encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at
   http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html
   
Other resources

   A resource list is available at
   http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and
   inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It
   includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web
   pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a
   suggestion for good material to be included, please write to
   freebsd-newbies and tell us about it.
   
But I have seen people asking questions here!

   It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a
   mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from
   time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't
   belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose
   job it is to sort these problems out privately.
   
   The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It
   is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies
   so we all make mistakes. That's OK.
   
   One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions,
   believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies,
   not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the
   situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to
   redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently.
   There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either.
   
   So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions
   as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies
   can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on
   our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not
   allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the
   mistakes that we need to make in order to learn.
     _________________________________________________________________
   
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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar 30 18:41:17 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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From: "Luiz Henrique" <lhguimaraes@ineparnet.com.br>
To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Shadow password w FreeBSD 4.2
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:40:53 -0300
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Hi Guys,

 Is possible enable shadow support in FreeBSD 4.2 (Like Linux) ? If yes,
"how" i make this?

Sorry, but my english is terrible. :-(

Thanks,


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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Fri Mar 30 22:24:42 2001
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To: "Luiz Henrique" <lhguimaraes@ineparnet.com.br>
Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Shadow password w FreeBSD 4.2
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It is already implemented.

In linux there is /etc/shadow, and in FreeBSD there is
/etc/master.passwd. It is implemented by default.

Saturday, March 31, 2001, 6:40:53 AM, Luiz wrote:

LH> Hi Guys,

LH>  Is possible enable shadow support in FreeBSD 4.2 (Like Linux) ? If yes,
LH> "how" i make this?

LH> Sorry, but my english is terrible. :-(

LH> Thanks,


LH> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
LH> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message




-- 



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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 31  5:18:55 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Cc: Bill Schoolcraft <bill@wiliweld.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: How to find out version of BIND remotely??
References: <Pine.GSO.4.30.0103300837420.12354-100000@corten8>
Organization: Norwegian School of Economics and Business Administration
From: Knut.Syed@nhh.no (Knut A. Syed)
Date: 31 Mar 2001 15:18:49 +0200
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Bill Schoolcraft <bill@wiliweld.com> writes:

> [...] does the "42" equal any thing special ?

No, 42 was just an example.  (Actually 42 is the answer to life, the
universe and everything.  But that is another story.)

> From the last few email I did the dig command and found that nhh.no
> is running:
> 
> VERSION.BIND.           0S CHAOS TXT    "8.2.3-REL"
> 
> Does the "version "42"; make the output look like the above ?

No, options { version "42"; }; would make the output look like this: 

VERSION.BIND.           0S CHAOS TXT    "42"

~kas
-- 
Knut A. Syéd
Senior Executive Officer, Department of Information Technology
Norwegian School of Economics and Business Administration

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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 31  9:34:15 2001
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	for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 10:34:12 -0700
From: Joe Warner <rootman@xmission.com>
To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: Video Player
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 10:31:45 -0700
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Can anyone recommend a good movie player for FreeBSD 4.2 that
will play multiple formats like MPEG, AVI, etc.?

Thanks

Joe

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From owner-freebsd-newbies  Sat Mar 31 23:25:54 2001
Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
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Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 01:07:02 -0600
Message-Id: <200104010707.BAA15360@baku.host4u.net>
From: Dan Langille <dan@freebsddiary.org>
To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
Subject: The FreeBSD Diary: 2001-03-11 - 2001-03-31
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The FreeBSD Diary contains a large number of practical 
examples and how-to guides.  This message is posted weekly
to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org with the aim of letting people
know what's available on the website.  Before you post a question
here it might be a good idea to first search the mailing list 
archives <http://www.freebsd.org/search/search.html#mailinglists> 
and/or The FreeBSD Diary <http://freebsddiary.org/>. 

These are the articles posted during this period:

30-Mar : qpopper with APOP
     Don't show your password when POP'ing
     http://freebsddiary.org/apop.html?2

28-Mar : IRC Hints
     Tips and hints for a happy IRC life...
     http://freebsddiary.org/irc.html?2

28-Mar : installing bind8 from ports
     You can use the port to upgrade the base install of bind
     http://freebsddiary.org/bind8-from-ports.html?2

27-Mar : Customizing Console Fonts
     Troy Bowman shows us how
     http://freebsddiary.org/console-fonts.html?2

25-Mar : Introduction to C++ API for mySQL
     Murat Balaban shows us the way
     http://freebsddiary.org/mysql-capi.html?2

19-Mar : FrontPage 2000 - installing the extensions
     Sometimes not using the port can work too...
     http://freebsddiary.org/frontpage2000-installing.html?2

13-Mar : new ipfilter option is really cool!
     shows the state table like top show the process table
     http://freebsddiary.org/ipfstat-t.html?2


-- 
Dan Langille - DVL Software Limited
The FreeBSD Diary - http://freebsddiary.org/ - practical examples
FreshPorts        - http://freshports.org/   - the place for ports


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