From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 12:17:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8739737B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 368B943E3B for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:17:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lplist@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 3044C536D; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C5615313 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:17:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:17:47 -0800 (PST) From: Linh Pham To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD PR Initiative Message-ID: <20021028121402.C3006-100000@q.closedsrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was told that there is some help needed with the FreeBSD PR initiative and I was wondering if I could help in any way. My strengths are in HTML/XHTML and a bit of PHP work (I'm still learning the database stuff for PostgreSQL right now). I can also help with a bit of web site designing or creating necessary templates. Most of my spare time is in the evenings and sometimes during the weekend. Let me know what I can help with and I'll be happy to help as much as I possibly can. Thanks. -- Linh Pham lplist@closedsrc.org Webmaster and FreeBSD Geek http://closedsrc.org closedsrc.org Every solution breeds new problems To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 13:12:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB24C37B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:12:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (thor.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C37A43E3B for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:12:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H4P00H2DMU1KU@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:10:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:08:22 -0800 Received: from balderdash.acuson.com (dhcp-46-171.acuson.com [157.226.46.171]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id RSV18Y3L; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:10:28 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:11:34 -0800 From: Johnson David Subject: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <200210281311.34328.djohnson@acuson.com> Organization: Acuson MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG A coworker and I are planning on replacing about 20 LynxOS lab workstations with FreeBSD. We originally chose LynxOS because that's what our embedded products use. But its getting too expensive to support it on workstation, and they're difficult to maintain. I stepped up to the plate and set up a prototype workstation with FreeBSD, with an identical look-and-feel to the other workstations (mwm, development scripts, etc), and created a step-by-step guide to installation and configuration. The sole purpose of these workstations is to connect to our embedded products via cu. We are all set to go to roll out FreeBSD to the other lab workstations. But some Linux advocate in the company is starting to raise a stink (even though he is unwilling to help in the conversion and subsequent maintenance). Now the manager in charge of the machines wants a report on why FreeBSD was chosen instead of Linux. Sigh. So what good reasons translated into Manager-ese can I present? Thanks, David Johnson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 13:26:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8695837B408 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:26:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C2643E42 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:26:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9SLQVs13471; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:26:32 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g9SLQVQ29327; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:26:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from centtech.com (electron [204.177.173.173]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9SLQSx29315; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:26:28 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3DBDAB86.9020406@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:26:30 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Johnson David , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... References: <200210281311.34328.djohnson@acuson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Johnson David wrote: > So what good reasons translated into Manager-ese can I present? This question is a long time argument depending on who you ask, but you can probably get a good discussion going on -chat about this, that will give you enough ammo. In fact, I think there was a thread on this not too long ago on -chat. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Beware the fury of a patient man. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 13:27:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A16437B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mg.hk5.outblaze.com (202-77-181-23.outblaze.com [202.77.181.23]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C57543E4A for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:27:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from derekbarrett@graffiti.net) Received: from ws3.hk5.outblaze.com (202-77-181-90.outblaze.com [202.77.181.90]) by mg.hk5.outblaze.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g9SLRNZ15513 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:27:23 GMT Received: (qmail 30107 invoked by uid 1001); 28 Oct 2002 21:27:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20021028212723.30105.qmail@graffiti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [66.51.217.108] by ws3.hk5.outblaze.com with http for derekbarrett@graffiti.net; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 05:27:23 +0800 From: "Derek Barrett" To: , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 05:27:23 +0800 Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... X-Originating-Ip: 66.51.217.108 X-Originating-Server: ws3.hk5.outblaze.com Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This raises a good point. While I don't have an answer right now that addresses the "managerese" way of selling, a good model for what's needed in FreeBSD is the new Postgres advocacy website. Not only does it make the case (backed up with case studies), it also has all the right lingo. (Total Cost of Ownership, administration costs, deployment, etc.) FreeBSD could really use something like this, so in cases this exact same scenario comes up (which it WILL), we can just point our managers to the page and not have to write up something over and over again: http://advocacy.postgresql.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Johnson David Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:11:34 -0800 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... > A coworker and I are planning on replacing about 20 LynxOS lab workstations > with FreeBSD. We originally chose LynxOS because that's what our embedded > products use. But its getting too expensive to support it on workstation, and > they're difficult to maintain. > > I stepped up to the plate and set up a prototype workstation with FreeBSD, > with an identical look-and-feel to the other workstations (mwm, development > scripts, etc), and created a step-by-step guide to installation and > configuration. > > The sole purpose of these workstations is to connect to our embedded products > via cu. > > We are all set to go to roll out FreeBSD to the other lab workstations. But > some Linux advocate in the company is starting to raise a stink (even though > he is unwilling to help in the conversion and subsequent maintenance). Now > the manager in charge of the machines wants a report on why FreeBSD was > chosen instead of Linux. Sigh. > > So what good reasons translated into Manager-ese can I present? > > Thanks, > > David Johnson > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 13:42:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BB5E37B404 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:42:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mg.hk5.outblaze.com (202-77-181-23.outblaze.com [202.77.181.23]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 324D543E75 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:42:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from derekbarrett@graffiti.net) Received: from ws3.hk5.outblaze.com (202-77-181-90.outblaze.com [202.77.181.90]) by mg.hk5.outblaze.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g9SLggZ30548 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:42:42 GMT Received: (qmail 1570 invoked by uid 1001); 28 Oct 2002 21:42:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20021028214242.1569.qmail@graffiti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [66.51.217.108] by ws3.hk5.outblaze.com with http for derekbarrett@graffiti.net; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 05:42:42 +0800 From: "Derek Barrett" To: , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 05:42:42 +0800 Subject: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers Part 2 X-Originating-Ip: 66.51.217.108 X-Originating-Server: ws3.hk5.outblaze.com Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just coming up with things off the top of my head. Though these aren't in "managerese" language: *As for using FreeBSD as a workstation, MacOSX is based off of FreeBSD code *Stability of a very mature and tight code base *BSD is actually UNIX, and not a clone of UNIX, so it's much easier for UNIX admins to use *File system layout is standardized, along with standard UNIX tools that have been around and used for decades. (For example, if I want to use traceroute on BSD, I just use traceroute, instead of "tracepath" on Linux). The standard filesystem along with the tools save and extraordinary amount of administration time. *Runs Linux applications (along with SCO UNIX apps) *Case studies include Yahoo!, the backend of Hotmail, and the special effects for the movie the Matrix *Of all the websites in the world, EVERY SINGLE ONE of them with the highest uptimes, are running some variation of BSD. Some of these machines haven't been rebooted in YEARS: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html That's all I can think of. No offense to the community at large, but the FreeBSD advocacy efforts seem to be outdated and have fallen by the wayside. What Postgres had alot of success with, was they basically just asked everyone in the community that was using it, to come back and let them know. This was awesome, because what came back was very surprising, we learned that Cisco, BASF, and the .INFO domains all use Postgres. Postgres recently beat out Oracle (there were about 15 firms and they all were proposing to us Oracle) to host the entire .ORG registry. I feel that FreeBSD desparately needs to update its case studies. We should follow the Postgres example. Heck, I'll even set something up like the Postgres Advocacy site, if people want to let everyone know that their company is using FreeBSD. ----- Original Message ----- From: Johnson David Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:11:34 -0800 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... > A coworker and I are planning on replacing about 20 LynxOS lab workstations > with FreeBSD. We originally chose LynxOS because that's what our embedded > products use. But its getting too expensive to support it on workstation, and > they're difficult to maintain. > > I stepped up to the plate and set up a prototype workstation with FreeBSD, > with an identical look-and-feel to the other workstations (mwm, development > scripts, etc), and created a step-by-step guide to installation and > configuration. > > The sole purpose of these workstations is to connect to our embedded products > via cu. > > We are all set to go to roll out FreeBSD to the other lab workstations. But > some Linux advocate in the company is starting to raise a stink (even though > he is unwilling to help in the conversion and subsequent maintenance). Now > the manager in charge of the machines wants a report on why FreeBSD was > chosen instead of Linux. Sigh. > > So what good reasons translated into Manager-ese can I present? > > Thanks, > > David Johnson > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > ----- Original Message ----- From: Johnson David Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:11:34 -0800 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... > A coworker and I are planning on replacing about 20 LynxOS lab workstations > with FreeBSD. We originally chose LynxOS because that's what our embedded > products use. But its getting too expensive to support it on workstation, and > they're difficult to maintain. > > I stepped up to the plate and set up a prototype workstation with FreeBSD, > with an identical look-and-feel to the other workstations (mwm, development > scripts, etc), and created a step-by-step guide to installation and > configuration. > > The sole purpose of these workstations is to connect to our embedded products > via cu. > > We are all set to go to roll out FreeBSD to the other lab workstations. But > some Linux advocate in the company is starting to raise a stink (even though > he is unwilling to help in the conversion and subsequent maintenance). Now > the manager in charge of the machines wants a report on why FreeBSD was > chosen instead of Linux. Sigh. > > So what good reasons translated into Manager-ese can I present? > > Thanks, > > David Johnson > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 13:54:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ADBE37B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E5DD43E6E for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:54:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9SLs2s14229; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:54:02 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id g9SLs2Z01548; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:54:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from centtech.com (electron [204.177.173.173]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9SLrwx01541; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:53:58 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3DBDB1F9.9050302@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:54:01 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Derek Barrett Cc: DavidJohnson@siemens.com, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers Part 2 References: <20021028214242.1569.qmail@graffiti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Derek Barrett wrote: > That's all I can think of. No offense to the community at large, but the FreeBSD advocacy efforts seem to be outdated and have fallen by the wayside. None taken.. :) You are right, and this is something that has been talked about a little, but needs some action instead of words.. > What Postgres had alot of success with, was they basically just asked everyone in the community that was using it, to come back and let them know. This was awesome, because what came back was very surprising, we learned that Cisco, BASF, and the .INFO domains all use Postgres. Postgres recently beat out Oracle (there were about 15 firms and they all were proposing to us Oracle) to host the entire .ORG registry. That's a great idea - maybe a "FreeBSD advocacy campaign" should be started.. > I feel that FreeBSD desparately needs to update its case studies. We should follow the Postgres example. Heck, I'll even set something up like the Postgres Advocacy site, if people want to let everyone know that their company is using FreeBSD. Great! I'd say set this up, and start pumping people to "fill in the blanks". Maybe you could also have a section on there asking why they chose freebsd. Then that data could be compiled and made into a more concise managerese listing. Eric > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Johnson David > Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:11:34 -0800 > To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... > > > >>A coworker and I are planning on replacing about 20 LynxOS lab workstations >>with FreeBSD. We originally chose LynxOS because that's what our embedded >>products use. But its getting too expensive to support it on workstation, and >>they're difficult to maintain. >> >>I stepped up to the plate and set up a prototype workstation with FreeBSD, >>with an identical look-and-feel to the other workstations (mwm, development >>scripts, etc), and created a step-by-step guide to installation and >>configuration. >> >>The sole purpose of these workstations is to connect to our embedded products >>via cu. >> >>We are all set to go to roll out FreeBSD to the other lab workstations. But >>some Linux advocate in the company is starting to raise a stink (even though >>he is unwilling to help in the conversion and subsequent maintenance). Now >>the manager in charge of the machines wants a report on why FreeBSD was >>chosen instead of Linux. Sigh. >> >>So what good reasons translated into Manager-ese can I present? >> >>Thanks, >> >>David Johnson >> >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >> >> > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Johnson David > Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:11:34 -0800 > To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... > > > >>A coworker and I are planning on replacing about 20 LynxOS lab workstations >>with FreeBSD. We originally chose LynxOS because that's what our embedded >>products use. But its getting too expensive to support it on workstation, and >>they're difficult to maintain. >> >>I stepped up to the plate and set up a prototype workstation with FreeBSD, >>with an identical look-and-feel to the other workstations (mwm, development >>scripts, etc), and created a step-by-step guide to installation and >>configuration. >> >>The sole purpose of these workstations is to connect to our embedded products >>via cu. >> >>We are all set to go to roll out FreeBSD to the other lab workstations. But >>some Linux advocate in the company is starting to raise a stink (even though >>he is unwilling to help in the conversion and subsequent maintenance). Now >>the manager in charge of the machines wants a report on why FreeBSD was >>chosen instead of Linux. Sigh. >> >>So what good reasons translated into Manager-ese can I present? >> >>Thanks, >> >>David Johnson >> >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >> >> > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Beware the fury of a patient man. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 13:57:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64AA37B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:57:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from piwebs.com (t-indiv5-88.athome.tue.nl [131.155.241.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DE5F443E88 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:57:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 1206 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2002 21:57:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO 192.168.0.105) (192.168.0.105) by 0 with SMTP; 28 Oct 2002 21:57:31 -0000 From: Arjan van Leeuwen (by way of Arjan van Leeuwen ) Subject: Re: FreeBSD PR Initiative Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:57:30 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200210282257.30654.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Linh! Thanks for your email. I'm working on a new site right now, which will for starters include a todo list (with responsibles for todo's, etc.) and room to discuss the items on the todo list. I'm hoping to have it up by wednesday. Once the main site is here, I'd like to expand its features, and I'd appreciate any help with this. I'll get back to you once the main site is finished. And again, thanks! Arjan avleeuwen@piwebs.com On Monday 28 October 2002 21:17, Linh Pham wrote: > I was told that there is some help needed with the FreeBSD PR initiative > and I was wondering if I could help in any way. My strengths are in > HTML/XHTML and a bit of PHP work (I'm still learning the database stuff > for PostgreSQL right now). I can also help with a bit of web site > designing or creating necessary templates. > > Most of my spare time is in the evenings and sometimes during the > weekend. Let me know what I can help with and I'll be happy to help as > much as I possibly can. > > Thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 13:58: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E047337B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:58:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from piwebs.com (t-indiv5-88.athome.tue.nl [131.155.241.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02B9243E75 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:57:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 1209 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2002 21:57:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO 192.168.0.105) (192.168.0.105) by 0 with SMTP; 28 Oct 2002 21:57:54 -0000 From: Arjan van Leeuwen (by way of Arjan van Leeuwen ) Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:57:53 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200210282257.53291.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The most important things are, I think: - Easier to manage (ports system, clear hierarchy, no different distros) - More open license (BSD license) - Build on years and years of BSD UNIX coding & knowledge - Lots of resources available on a central place (the handbook and other stuff on freebsd.org) Hope this helps, Arjan avleeuwen@piwebs.com On Monday 28 October 2002 22:11, Johnson David wrote: > A coworker and I are planning on replacing about 20 LynxOS lab workstations > with FreeBSD. We originally chose LynxOS because that's what our embedded > products use. But its getting too expensive to support it on workstation, > and they're difficult to maintain. > > I stepped up to the plate and set up a prototype workstation with FreeBSD, > with an identical look-and-feel to the other workstations (mwm, development > scripts, etc), and created a step-by-step guide to installation and > configuration. > > The sole purpose of these workstations is to connect to our embedded > products via cu. > > We are all set to go to roll out FreeBSD to the other lab workstations. But > some Linux advocate in the company is starting to raise a stink (even > though he is unwilling to help in the conversion and subsequent > maintenance). Now the manager in charge of the machines wants a report on > why FreeBSD was chosen instead of Linux. Sigh. > > So what good reasons translated into Manager-ese can I present? > > Thanks, > > David Johnson > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 13:58:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D537A37B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from piwebs.com (t-indiv5-88.athome.tue.nl [131.155.241.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CC50443E3B for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:58:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 1212 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2002 21:58:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO 192.168.0.105) (192.168.0.105) by 0 with SMTP; 28 Oct 2002 21:58:11 -0000 From: Arjan van Leeuwen (by way of Arjan van Leeuwen ) Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers Part 2 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:58:10 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200210282258.10828.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday 28 October 2002 22:42, Derek Barrett wrote: > What Postgres had alot of success with, was they basically just asked > everyone in the community that was using it, to come back and let them > know. This was awesome, because what came back was very surprising, we > learned that Cisco, BASF, and the .INFO domains all use Postgres. Postgres > recently beat out Oracle (there were about 15 firms and they all were > proposing to us Oracle) to host the entire .ORG registry. > > I feel that FreeBSD desparately needs to update its case studies. We should > follow the Postgres example. Heck, I'll even set something up like the > Postgres Advocacy site, if people want to let everyone know that their > company is using FreeBSD. I'm currently working (with the support and cooperation of some other people) on a FreeBSD PR site, as discussed earlier here on -advocacy, which will debut (hopefully) on Wednesday. We could do something like this on the site - keep things on one site to make things simpler :). What do you think? Best regards, Arjan avleeuwen@piwebs.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 15:37: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5396C37B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:37:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net (conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFC8E43E6E for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:37:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0469.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.214] helo=mindspring.com) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 186JRK-0002Kp-00; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:36:58 -0800 Message-ID: <3DBDC9CC.64FC3138@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:35:40 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Johnson David Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... References: <200210281311.34328.djohnson@acuson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Johnson David wrote: > A coworker and I are planning on replacing about 20 LynxOS lab workstations > with FreeBSD. We originally chose LynxOS because that's what our embedded > products use. But its getting too expensive to support it on workstation, and > they're difficult to maintain. > > I stepped up to the plate and set up a prototype workstation with FreeBSD, > with an identical look-and-feel to the other workstations (mwm, development > scripts, etc), and created a step-by-step guide to installation and > configuration. > > The sole purpose of these workstations is to connect to our embedded products > via cu. > > We are all set to go to roll out FreeBSD to the other lab workstations. But > some Linux advocate in the company is starting to raise a stink (even though > he is unwilling to help in the conversion and subsequent maintenance). Now > the manager in charge of the machines wants a report on why FreeBSD was > chosen instead of Linux. Sigh. > > So what good reasons translated into Manager-ese can I present? 1) Your employee who is doing the work knows FreeBSD. 2) If you ever want to switch your embedded product over to get around the support expense there, too, then FreeBSD is a better choice, because of the license. 3) The people pushing Linux aren't willing to do the work. Argument #2 works best if you have kernel modules, drivers, etc., which are in the boot path for your device, and your company is not willing to give away the source code to them. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 15:53:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0244937B404 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:53:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (thor.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C7D643E7B for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:53:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H4P00H6XUAKKS@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:51:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:49:28 -0800 Received: from balderdash.acuson.com (dhcp-46-171.acuson.com [157.226.46.171]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id RSV1857L; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:51:39 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:52:45 -0800 From: Johnson David Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... In-reply-to: <3DBDC9CC.64FC3138@mindspring.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <200210281552.45071.djohnson@acuson.com> Organization: Acuson MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <200210281311.34328.djohnson@acuson.com> <3DBDC9CC.64FC3138@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 3) The people pushing Linux aren't willing to do the work. This is what really chaps my hide, so to speak. This transition needed to be made for a couple of years now. I found some spare time and did it. Now people are crawling out of the woodwork complaining that they don't like the color of the bikeshed. Tough turnips! The guy who gets paid to maintain these machines *wants* FreeBSD. In my tiny non-manager mind, that's reason enough for me... David p.s. Thanks everyone for all the feedback. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 17:27:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A92937B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:27:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 065E443E42 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:27:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lplist@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 7DE69536D; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 797BB5313; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:26:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:26:59 -0800 (PST) From: Linh Pham To: Arjan van Leeuwen Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD PR Initiative In-Reply-To: <200210282214.14593.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Message-ID: <20021028172546.U3720-100000@q.closedsrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2002-10-28, Arjan van Leeuwen scribbled: # Thanks for your email. I'm working on a new site right now, which will for # starters include a todo list (with responsibles for todo's, etc.) and room to # discuss the items on the todo list. I'm hoping to have it up by wednesday. # Once the main site is here, I'd like to expand its features, and I'd # appreciate any help with this. # # I'll get back to you once the main site is finished. And again, thanks! Thanks... right now, I'm not on the -advocacy list (currently waiting to be approved), so feel free to contact me directly at this address. -- Linh Pham lplist@closedsrc.org Webmaster and FreeBSD Geek http://closedsrc.org closedsrc.org Every solution breeds new problems To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 17:56: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199C537B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:56:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com (mailout05.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.82]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF5343E77 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:56:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 186LbK-0008IC-07; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:55:26 +0100 Received: from jhs.muc.de (520006753247-0001@[217.235.125.30]) by fmrl09.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 186LbF-0EctIOC; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:55:21 +0100 Received: from flip.jhs.private (flip.jhs.private [192.168.91.24]) by jhs.muc.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9T1tPH07631; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:55:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from flip.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flip.jhs.private (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9T1sxs31104; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:55:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flip.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200210290155.g9T1sxs31104@flip.jhs.private> To: Arjan van Leeuwen (by way of Arjan van Leeuwen ) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers Part 2 In-Reply-To: Message from Arjan van Leeuwen (by way of Arjan van Leeuwen ) of "Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:58:10 +0100." <200210282258.10828.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:54:59 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Sender: 520006753247-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Arjan van Leeuwen wrote: > I'm currently working (with the support and cooperation of some other people) > on a FreeBSD PR site, as discussed earlier here on -advocacy, which will > debut (hopefully) on Wednesday. We could do something like this on the site - It would be good if you could get someone to write a printable paper, periodically maintained , scattered with URLs, called something like "BSD V. Linux - A Comparison" (preferably not "FreeBSD V. Linux") Printable both as A4 for rest of world, & USA size too. Last year our Munich BSD club had a stand at an exhibition for a week, & the most frequent question was "What is BSD ?" Fortunately we had a leaflet: http://bim.bsn.com/leaflet/ Next most frequent question was "How does BSD compare to Linux ?". When visitors come too fast to answer individually, one needs a leaflet. Could someone find time to write one (I'm too busy planning a future BSD conference for Munich, http://bim.bsn.com/conf/ ) The leaflet should be factual & balanced, not rabid, Linux is OK too, & we want Linux (& other) people to read the leaflet & be tempted to try BSD, we don't want to incite Linux people to try to lynch BSD leaflet distributors :-) Less need for a "BSD V. MS" leaflet, less deirable to recruit M$ zombies. Julian Stacey jhs @ berklix.com Computer Sys. Eng. & Unix Consultant, Munich Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. FreeBSD-4.7 just out - free with 7650 programs - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 18:24: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0657337B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:24:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.freebsdmall.com (ns1.freebsdmall.com [66.220.2.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADFDC43E3B for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:24:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rab@ns1.freebsdmall.com) Received: from ns1.freebsdmall.com (ns1.freebsdmall.com [66.220.2.194]) by mail.freebsdmall.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2029B2E8B5; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:23:55 -0800 (PST) To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: avleeuwen@piwebs.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, rab@freebsdmall.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers Part 2 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:54:59 +0100." <200210290155.g9T1sxs31104@flip.jhs.private> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:23:55 -0800 From: Robert Bruce Message-Id: <20021029022355.2029B2E8B5@mail.freebsdmall.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Julian H. Stacey" said... >Arjan van Leeuwen wrote: >> I'm currently working (with the support and cooperation of some other people) >> on a FreeBSD PR site, as discussed earlier here on -advocacy, which will >> debut (hopefully) on Wednesday. We could do something like this on the site - > >It would be good if you could get someone to write a printable >paper, periodically maintained , scattered with URLs, called something >like "BSD V. Linux - A Comparison" (preferably not "FreeBSD V. >Linux") Printable both as A4 for rest of world, & USA size too. There is a somewhat outdated comparison chart here: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~murray/bsd_flier.html You are welcome to use/modify/improve/update/translate any or all of it. -bob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 19:44:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52FB137B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:44:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc02.attbi.com (sccrmhc02.attbi.com [204.127.202.62]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79A743E42 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:44:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rootman22@attbi.com) Received: from C595663-A ([12.254.218.35]) by sccrmhc02.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021029034449.NSKD28672.sccrmhc02.attbi.com@C595663-A>; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 03:44:49 +0000 Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... From: Joe Warner To: Derek Barrett Cc: DavidJohnson@Siemens.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Linh Pham In-Reply-To: <20021028212723.30105.qmail@graffiti.net> References: <20021028212723.30105.qmail@graffiti.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-aVOjYBn4g+AQx6w3/Zyc" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 Date: 28 Oct 2002 20:44:23 -0700 Message-Id: <1035863065.319.56.camel@C595663-A.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --=-aVOjYBn4g+AQx6w3/Zyc Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2002-10-28 at 14:27, Derek Barrett wrote: > This raises a good point. While I don't have an answer right > now that addresses the "managerese" way of selling, a good > model for what's needed in FreeBSD is the new Postgres > advocacy website. Not only does it make the case > (backed up with case studies), it also has all the right > lingo. (Total Cost of Ownership, administration costs, > deployment, etc.) >=20 > FreeBSD could really use something like this, so in cases > this exact same scenario comes up (which it WILL), we can > just point our managers to the page and not have to write > up something over and over again: >=20 > http://advocacy.postgresql.org/ I agree with this. They also have it linked on their mirror sites: http://www.us.postgresql.org/ "In more than just English, the PostgreSQL Advocacy and Marketing site has been launched. Through this site the general public who aren't aware of the benefits and power of PostgreSQL can learn about the benefits and advantages it offers and more." It would be great to see the launch of http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ Joe >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Johnson David > Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:11:34 -0800 > To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... >=20 >=20 > > A coworker and I are planning on replacing about 20 LynxOS lab workstat= ions=20 > > with FreeBSD. We originally chose LynxOS because that's what our embedd= ed=20 > > products use. But its getting too expensive to support it on workstatio= n, and=20 > > they're difficult to maintain. > >=20 > > I stepped up to the plate and set up a prototype workstation with FreeB= SD,=20 > > with an identical look-and-feel to the other workstations (mwm, develop= ment=20 > > scripts, etc), and created a step-by-step guide to installation and=20 > > configuration. > >=20 > > The sole purpose of these workstations is to connect to our embedded pr= oducts=20 > > via cu. > >=20 > > We are all set to go to roll out FreeBSD to the other lab workstations.= But=20 > > some Linux advocate in the company is starting to raise a stink (even t= hough=20 > > he is unwilling to help in the conversion and subsequent maintenance). = Now=20 > > the manager in charge of the machines wants a report on why FreeBSD was= =20 > > chosen instead of Linux. Sigh. > >=20 > > So what good reasons translated into Manager-ese can I present? > >=20 > > Thanks, > >=20 > > David Johnson > >=20 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > >=20 > >=20 >=20 > --=20 > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net >=20 > Powered by Outblaze >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message --=20 Support your local Search and Rescue unit -- get lost. --=-aVOjYBn4g+AQx6w3/Zyc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA9vgQXy8v4Vaw+EcoRAhv1AJ9CW+Uc5heg1rFei9hKwFOd9p9McgCdHdRZ wRg5xvh1xq/qp6tjD8p1G4Q= =0Rle -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-aVOjYBn4g+AQx6w3/Zyc-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 20: 5:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C09937B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:05:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4A543E77 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:05:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rootman22@attbi.com) Received: from C595663-A ([12.254.218.35]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021029040526.OLWG3093.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@C595663-A>; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 04:05:26 +0000 Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers Part 2 From: Joe Warner To: Arjan van Leeuwen Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org, Linh Pham In-Reply-To: <200210282258.10828.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> References: <200210282258.10828.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-x353VeAHKw2+57AtCgro" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 Date: 28 Oct 2002 21:05:00 -0700 Message-Id: <1035864302.319.71.camel@C595663-A.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --=-x353VeAHKw2+57AtCgro Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2002-10-28 at 14:58, Arjan van Leeuwen wrote: > On Monday 28 October 2002 22:42, Derek Barrett wrote: > > What Postgres had alot of success with, was they basically just asked > > everyone in the community that was using it, to come back and let them > > know. This was awesome, because what came back was very surprising, we > > learned that Cisco, BASF, and the .INFO domains all use Postgres. Postg= res > > recently beat out Oracle (there were about 15 firms and they all were > > proposing to us Oracle) to host the entire .ORG registry. > > > > I feel that FreeBSD desparately needs to update its case studies. We sh= ould > > follow the Postgres example. Heck, I'll even set something up like the > > Postgres Advocacy site, if people want to let everyone know that their > > company is using FreeBSD. >=20 > I'm currently working (with the support and cooperation of some other peo= ple) > on a FreeBSD PR site, as discussed earlier here on -advocacy, which will > debut (hopefully) on Wednesday. We could do something like this on the si= te - > keep things on one site to make things simpler :). What do you think? >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Arjan > avleeuwen@piwebs.com As Arjan just mentioned, we currently have a PR initiative in progress and this thread is evidence enough that there are quite a number of people who feel that FreeBSD needs some help in the area of advocacy and PR. If anyone is interested in helping out, please let me, Arjan or Michael Lucas know or just post to -advocacy. Keep watching -advocacy for related posts. Thanks Joe >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message --=20 Support your local Search and Rescue unit -- get lost. --=-x353VeAHKw2+57AtCgro Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA9vgjsy8v4Vaw+EcoRAr3yAJ9geRk2nzO7IPSC7F61dCHqkCL9BACglmiX zJlgZwSbvXewmR81sG6pHAY= =ZZZG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-x353VeAHKw2+57AtCgro-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Oct 28 23:54:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02E4637B401 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 23:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from crf-consulting.co.uk (pc-80-194-99-103-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [80.194.99.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 141CA43E77 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2002 23:54:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@crf-consulting.co.uk) Received: from clan.crf-consulting.co.uk (clan.nothing-going-on.org [192.168.1.20]) by crf-consulting.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g9T7roTk053995; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:53:50 GMT (envelope-from nik@catkin) Received: from clan.nothing-going-on.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clan.crf-consulting.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g9T7rohB018132; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:53:50 GMT (envelope-from nik@clan.nothing-going-on.org) Received: (from nik@localhost) by clan.nothing-going-on.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g9T7rnku018131; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:53:49 GMT Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:53:49 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Joe Warner Cc: Derek Barrett , DavidJohnson@Siemens.com, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Linh Pham Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... Message-ID: <20021029075349.GN20263@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20021028212723.30105.qmail@graffiti.net> <1035863065.319.56.camel@C595663-A.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="nrXiCraHbXeog9mY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1035863065.319.56.camel@C595663-A.attbi.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --nrXiCraHbXeog9mY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 08:44:23PM -0700, Joe Warner wrote: > It would be great to see the launch of http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ Send updates for the pages at=20 http://www.freebsd.org/advocacy/ N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ (__) FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ \\\'',) \/ \= ^ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- .\._/= _) --nrXiCraHbXeog9mY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9vj6Mk6gHZCw343URAqh4AJ9fV0hO8gPtmz7w+hwslWLXBGBkcACdHgKs +84bDXP+RW4yzjuPwFTF7GI= =MpF5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nrXiCraHbXeog9mY-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 29 0:25: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F7C37B401 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 00:25:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0097743E88 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 00:25:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darklogik@pittgoth.com) Received: from pittgoth.com ([192.168.0.2]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g9T8OvmL061646; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 03:24:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from darklogik@pittgoth.com) Message-ID: <3DBE7164.6050801@pittgoth.com> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 03:30:44 -0800 From: Tom Rhodes User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.1a) Gecko/20020611 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Johnson David Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... References: <200210281311.34328.djohnson@acuson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Johnson David wrote: >A coworker and I are planning on replacing about 20 LynxOS lab workstations >with FreeBSD. We originally chose LynxOS because that's what our embedded >products use. But its getting too expensive to support it on workstation, and >they're difficult to maintain. > >I stepped up to the plate and set up a prototype workstation with FreeBSD, >with an identical look-and-feel to the other workstations (mwm, development >scripts, etc), and created a step-by-step guide to installation and >configuration. > >The sole purpose of these workstations is to connect to our embedded products >via cu. > >We are all set to go to roll out FreeBSD to the other lab workstations. But >some Linux advocate in the company is starting to raise a stink (even though >he is unwilling to help in the conversion and subsequent maintenance). Now >the manager in charge of the machines wants a report on why FreeBSD was >chosen instead of Linux. Sigh. > >So what good reasons translated into Manager-ese can I present? > >Thanks, > >David Johnson > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > > You state 'to expensive' and 'difficult to maintain', now could you produce some statistics? What I mean is how many 'lost' hours over maintaining them, and how much total is 'expensive'. Now use them in a report proving that FreeBSD will save money due to labor hours which can be used better elsewhere. Least, that is what I would do ;) -- Tom Rhodes To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 29 4:39:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 023E837B401; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 04:39:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F86243E4A; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 04:39:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rootman22@attbi.com) Received: from C595663-A ([12.254.218.35]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021029123942.RNJF19957.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@C595663-A>; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:39:42 +0000 Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... From: Joe Warner To: Nik Clayton Cc: Derek Barrett , Johnson David , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Linh Pham In-Reply-To: <20021029075349.GN20263@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20021028212723.30105.qmail@graffiti.net> <1035863065.319.56.camel@C595663-A.attbi.com> <20021029075349.GN20263@clan.nothing-going-on.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-oAFJxt9yHS3mopjq528g" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 Date: 29 Oct 2002 05:39:16 -0700 Message-Id: <1035895157.319.7.camel@C595663-A.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --=-oAFJxt9yHS3mopjq528g Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2002-10-29 at 00:53, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 08:44:23PM -0700, Joe Warner wrote: > > It would be great to see the launch of http://advocacy.freebsd.org/ >=20 > Send updates for the pages at=20 >=20 > http://www.freebsd.org/advocacy/ Thanks Nik! BTW - Is this linked anywhere else besides the "projects" page? Any chance it could be linked from the main page? It would be easier to find. >=20 > N > --=20 > FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ (_= _) > FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ \\\''= ,) > \/ = \ ^ > --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- .\.= _/_) --=20 Take everything in stride. Trample anyone who gets in your way. --=-oAFJxt9yHS3mopjq528g Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA9voF0y8v4Vaw+EcoRAojZAJ9PP1sIPsgz8wDo7oAY0b+fACQQbwCfZyWe vEu+MRWB+Khw/DupeqbBULo= =ScWP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-oAFJxt9yHS3mopjq528g-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 29 5: 4:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1312737B401 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 05:04:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from bran.mc.mpls.visi.com (bran.mc.mpls.visi.com [208.42.156.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2087643E77 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 05:04:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hawkeyd@visi.com) Received: from sheol.localdomain (hawkeyd-fw.dsl.visi.com [208.42.101.193]) by bran.mc.mpls.visi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00E8E4AD6; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:04:12 -0600 (CST) Received: (from hawkeyd@localhost) by sheol.localdomain (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g9TD4Bf02105; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:04:11 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from hawkeyd) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:04:11 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <200210291304.g9TD4Bf02105@sheol.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 1.0c.0 Reply-To: hawkeyd@visi.com Organization: if (!FIFO) if (!LIFO) break; References: <200210281311.34328.djohnson_acuson.com@ns.sol.net> In-Reply-To: <200210281311.34328.djohnson_acuson.com@ns.sol.net> From: hawkeyd@visi.com (D J Hawkey Jr) Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers... X-Original-Newsgroups: sol.lists.freebsd.advocacy To: DavidJohnson@Siemens.com, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=__GB7Su6m+ILzb1Xj4KFNMyvbBR__=-=-=" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --=-=-=__GB7Su6m+ILzb1Xj4KFNMyvbBR__=-=-= In article <200210281311.34328.djohnson_acuson.com@ns.sol.net>, DavidJohnson@Siemens.com writes: > > [SNIP] > > We are all set to go to roll out FreeBSD to the other lab workstations. But > some Linux advocate in the company is starting to raise a stink (even though > he is unwilling to help in the conversion and subsequent maintenance). Now > the manager in charge of the machines wants a report on why FreeBSD was > chosen instead of Linux. Sigh. I went through this exercise at my last job, except that "we" in my case was just me, and the workstation was a firewall. I was the only one of six that had any objective experience with both FreeBSD and Linux, though the other five certainly had their opinions, anyway. None were willing to assist in the conversion of the Linux firewall to FreeBSD, not out of hostility, but for lack of experience with FreeBSD. I was to have sole responsibility for the firewall. > So what good reasons translated into Manager-ese can I present? See the attachment for a pros-n-cons list I threw together, and presented to and discussed with my boss over a couple of beers at the local tap. It's rather dated now (FreeBSD 4.3, IIRC, versus RedHat Linux 6.2), but I think it still has many valid points. Host names and addresses have been changed to protect the innocent. It was a major factor in implementing the firewall under FreeBSD. > Thanks, > David Johnson HTH, Dave -- Windows: "Where do you want to go today?" Linux: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?" FreeBSD: "Are you guys coming, or what?" --=-=-=__GB7Su6m+ILzb1Xj4KFNMyvbBR__=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Linux-vs-FreeBSD.txt" =========================================================== UNSCIENTIFIC COMPARISON OF REDHAT LINUX 6.2 AND FREEBSD 4.3 =========================================================== Linux FreeBSD ------------------------- ------------------------- Cost: $0 $0 Vendors/Dists: many OSes, 1 kernel 1 (1) License: GPL "Free Beer" (2) Hardware: most any i386 thang not the newest as quickly Support: vendors, users vendor, users (3) Audits: vendors, GNU, Linus vendor (4) Availability: high high Applications: bleeding-edge, established cutting-edge, established (5) Support: vendors, users vendors, users (6) Availability: high high Stability: lauded, but questionable high and well-known (7) Security: largely unknown high and well-known (8) Scalability: SMP SMP, Dummynet (9) Performance: high high (1) Linux has many distributions supporting a common kernel. Even among any one distribution, vendors often add or change things. FreeBSD has one distribution, and daily snapshots of the stable and current distribution tress are available. (2) The GPL is seen by many companies as anti-business, as it requires that any work derived from GPL'd code must be returned to the copyright owner (the public). FreeBSD's license make no such requirement. (3) Linux's support is muddied by the several distributions; what may work for one might not for another. Both enjoy a robust and active user community. On-line documentation for RH-Linux is inconsistant, at best. FreeBSD's man pages are exemplary. (4) Linux relies chiefly on the credentials and skills of all that contribute to the GNU effort for the OSes. Linus controls the kernel, and keeps a staff of trusted lieutenants. All the BSDs have a core peer group that steers and commits code, with an established and known hierarchy of teams for support, auditing, etc. beneath it. (5) For a long time, the BSDs were the platform of choice for development. Linux seems to be the OS of choice these days. Portability is high where the kernel is not involved. FreeBSD can run the majority of Linux, SCO, and SysV apps "natively". (6) Pre-packaged software abounds for both. Linux's is somewhat disparate in that each distribution has it's own list of packages, package manager, etc.. FreeBSD's is uniform and consistant. On-line documentation for RH-Linux is inconsistant, at best. FreeBSD's man pages are exemplary. (7) Linux's EXT2 filesystem, the default, is known as weak where disaster recovery is concerned, though quite fast. UFS is available? FreeBSD's FFS has years of proven robustness, though it's slower. Softupdates adds to it's stability, and puts performance on equal ground. Linux's process, memory and swap management is considered suspect under stress. FreeBSD's kernel is known for solidity, if not breakneck speed. FreeBSD's TCP/IP stack is considered second-to-none. One Linux vendor is known for putting release schedules before code readiness. FreeBSD has often postponed a release for code readiness. (8) Going beyond the "usual UNIX" methodologies and tools, Linux is largely untested in terms of cracker successes. FreeBSD has years of refinement and fixes behind it, and benefits from it's siblings' progresses. Both are good about notifying the user base to known exploits and their fixes. More and more Linux exploits are being announced. FreeBSD has "wheel". FreeBSD has "jail". (9) Dummynet: Can be used for bandwidth shaping. Bandwidth limiting handled in kernel. I myself have found typos in RedHat init scripts that could cause failure. I have yet to resolve another init script failure. I have witnessed TCP/IP interfaces stop reponding. I have seen a Perl script cause a kernel panic by spawning 'sendmail'. My own RedHat box just "went away" one morning. RH 6.2 is at end-of-life. Updates are becoming fewer. The 'rpm' utility itself has undergone a not-backward-compatable upgrade. Archived RPMs on non-RH servers are growing stale, and will dwindle. RH-Linux, even with a "server" install, installs too much Gucci stuff, and enables nearly everything. FreeBSD's installation of any level installs just what is necessary, and disables nearly everything. Linux has no hard- and-fast disk order, BSD's is well-defined and adhered to. RH-Linux installs no security mailings (or, at least, doesn't enable them), FreeBSD does. [sheol] /usr/home/hawkeyd$ sudo nmap -sS -O RH-6.2_server Starting nmap V. 2.53 by fyodor@insecure.org ( www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) Interesting ports on (nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn): (The 1513 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed) Port State Service 21/tcp open ftp 22/tcp open ssh 24/tcp open priv-mail -> accounted for 25/tcp open smtp 26/tcp open unknown -> accounted for 27/tcp open nsw-fe -> accounted for 28/tcp open unknown -> accounted for 515/tcp open printer 1407/tcp open dbsa-lm -> accounted for 8080/tcp open http-proxy TCP Sequence Prediction: Class=random positive increments Difficulty=5752230 (Good luck!) Remote OS guesses: Linux 2.1.122 - 2.2.14, Linux kernel 2.2.13 Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 32 seconds [root@host24 /root]# nmap -sS -sU -O FreeBSD-4.n_server Starting nmap V. 2.53 by fyodor@insecure.org ( www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) Interesting ports on (nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn); (The 3080 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: filtered) Port State Service 22/tcp open ssh 80/tcp open http 113/tcp closed auth TCP Sequence Prediction: Class=random positive increments Difficulty=48251 (Worthy challenge) No OS matches for host (If you know what OS is running on it, see http://www.insecure.org/cgi-bin/nmap-submit.cgi). TCP/IP fingerprint: TSeq(Class=RI%gcd=1%SI=B903) TSeq(Class=RI%gcd=1%SI=10E49) TSeq(Class=RI%gcd=1%SI=BC7B) T1(Resp=Y%DF=Y%W=805C%ACK=S++%Flags=AS%Ops=M) T2(Resp=N) T3(Resp=Y%DF=Y%W=805C%ACK=S++%Flags=AS%Ops=M) T4(Resp=Y%DF=N%W=0%ACK=O%Flags=R%Ops=) T5(Resp=Y%DF=N%W=0%ACK=S++%Flags=AR%Ops=) T6(Resp=Y%DF=N%W=0%ACK=O%Flags=R%Ops=) T7(Resp=Y%DF=N%W=0%ACK=S%Flags=AR%Ops=) PU(Resp=N) Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 452 seconds --------- NOTE: FreeBSD-4.n_server logged the probes in /var/log/security, and showed proof of bandwidth limiting. RH-6.2_server logged nothing. UDP probes were prohibited by FreeBSD-4.n_server because of it's own firewall rules. Many other "high" open ports on marner2. --------- [root@host24 /root]# nmap -sS -sU -O another_FreeBSD-4.n_server Starting nmap V. 2.53 by fyodor@insecure.org ( www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) Note: Host seems down. If it is really up, but blocking our ping probes, try -P0 Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (0 hosts up) scanned in 36 seconds [root@host24 /root]# nmap -sS -sU -O -P0 another_FreeBSD-4.n_server Starting nmap V. 2.53 by fyodor@insecure.org ( www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) Interesting ports on (nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn): (The 3080 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed) Port State Service 22/tcp open ssh 80/tcp open http TCP Sequence Prediction: Class=random positive increments Difficulty=37723 (Worthy challenge) Remote operating system guess: CABLETRON Systems, Incorporated, Module Firmware Revision: 01.01.01 Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 31 seconds --------- NOTE: another_FreeBSD-4.n_server logged the probes in /var/log/security. --------- --=-=-=__GB7Su6m+ILzb1Xj4KFNMyvbBR__=-=-=-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Oct 29 6:48:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E662D37B401 for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 06:48:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4441D43E3B for ; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 06:48:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (mwlucas@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g9TEmPJ6035252; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:48:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g9TEmPgY035251; Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:48:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:48:25 -0500 From: Michael Lucas To: Joe Warner Cc: Arjan van Leeuwen , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Linh Pham Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux For Managers Part 2 Message-ID: <20021029094825.A35038@blackhelicopters.org> References: <200210282258.10828.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> <1035864302.319.71.camel@C595663-A.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <1035864302.319.71.camel@C595663-A.attbi.com>; from rootman22@attbi.com on Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 09:05:00PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 09:05:00PM -0700, Joe Warner wrote: > On Mon, 2002-10-28 at 14:58, Arjan van Leeuwen wrote: > > On Monday 28 October 2002 22:42, Derek Barrett wrote: > > > I feel that FreeBSD desparately needs to update its case studies. > > I'm currently working (with the support and cooperation of some other people) > > on a FreeBSD PR site, as discussed earlier here on -advocacy, which will > > debut (hopefully) on Wednesday. We could do something like this on the site - > > keep things on one site to make things simpler :). What do you think? If you check the archives, you'll see that we had developed a list of things to do, including case studies, comparison charts, and so on. Unfortunately my wife relapsed, so I ran out of time to push this. Someone could go in the archives, dig up that to-do list, clean it up, and post it. To-do-list item #1: Someone needs to take ownership of the to-do list, even on a temporary basis. Post it regularly. Become the advocacy coordinator. You do not need a commit bit to do this, just willingness and a few hours a week. Lots of people want to know what they can do to help; answer them! If anyone actually *needs* a committer, I'll commit. But a commit bit is not necessary for this work. (And see the archives for my offer of a commit bit, which still stands.) > If anyone is interested in helping out, please let me, Arjan or > Michael Lucas know or just post to > -advocacy. Keep watching -advocacy for related posts. Actually, I'd say talk on the mailing list. Right here. When discussion is public, people join in. They get excited. They help. Advocacy is public. Be public. (Also, I'm a bottleneck, even if Joe and Arjan are not. :-) ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 30 10:58:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA65E37B401 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (anthonychavez.org [166.70.15.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE1843E3B for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:58:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g9UIwIO2008616 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:58:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: (from acc@localhost) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id g9UIwHSB008615 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:58:17 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:58:17 -0700 From: "Anthony C. Chavez" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: DoD study Message-ID: <20021030185817.GA8079@anthonychavez.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-PGP-Key: http://www.anthonychavez.org/pubkey.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Friends: Thought you might want to have a look at this: http://www.egovos.org/pdf/dodfoss.pdf Specifically, Table 1 on page 15. There seems to be an inaccuracy or two about the BSD license there. I'm wondering if this document, although slightly GPL-slanted, could be used as ammo to show BSD's usage by the DoD. Any thoughts? --=20 Anthony Chavez http://www.anthonychavez.org/ mailto:acc@anthonychavez.org jabber:acc@jabber.anthonychavez.org --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9wCvJbZTbIaRBRXERAm9YAJ4va6Kb7t7bl8Odjl4+dIwY7MJUuwCfYzDO NIE5xUUrNia8haHtBfl2QEc= =vuVo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 30 11:16: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6B337B401 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D51AB43E3B for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:15:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 186yJK-0002Ke-00; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:15:26 -0800 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:15:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: "Anthony C. Chavez" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DoD study In-Reply-To: <20021030185817.GA8079@anthonychavez.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Anthony C. Chavez wrote: > Specifically, Table 1 on page 15. There seems to be an inaccuracy or > two about the BSD license there. Which ones? I do see that it should have the "Original source can be incorporated into closed source products" property checked. > I'm wondering if this document, although slightly GPL-slanted, could be > used as ammo to show BSD's usage by the DoD. Any thoughts? Yes. Good advocacy. But I wonder what they are used for. Jeremy C. Reed http://www.reedmedia.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Oct 30 11:38:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A251537B407 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:38:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (anthonychavez.org [166.70.15.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1760443E77 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:38:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g9UJcGO2008805; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:38:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: (from acc@localhost) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id g9UJcGac008804; Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:38:16 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:38:16 -0700 From: "Anthony C. Chavez" To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DoD study Message-ID: <20021030193815.GC8079@anthonychavez.org> Mail-Followup-To: "Jeremy C. Reed" , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20021030185817.GA8079@anthonychavez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FsscpQKzF/jJk6ya" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-PGP-Key: http://www.anthonychavez.org/pubkey.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --FsscpQKzF/jJk6ya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 11:15:26AM -0800, "Jeremy C. Reed" wrote: > Which ones? >=20 > I do see that it should have the "Original source can be incorporated into > closed source products" property checked. That one (row P) is what I was referring to in particular, although my interpretation of rows K, L and M is that the GPL relies on K, while the BSD license could imply L and M should the "new user" get the source. Like I said, though, that's ~my~ interpretation of the table. I could be wrong. > Yes. Good advocacy. But I wonder what they are used for. That's another reason why I asked if anyone knew of any more studies. :-) --=20 Anthony Chavez http://www.anthonychavez.org/ mailto:acc@anthonychavez.org jabber:acc@jabber.anthonychavez.org --FsscpQKzF/jJk6ya Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9wDUnbZTbIaRBRXERAm7LAJ9A8QERqyFZIkiyQmCUCt9RFZ+DtACdFxMD JACGNvVIIpmMbXLnR6L39C4= =63Sj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FsscpQKzF/jJk6ya-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Nov 1 0:47:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C6337B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 00:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ws2.hk5.outblaze.com (202-77-181-84.outblaze.com [202.77.181.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4830F43E7B for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 00:47:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from derekbarrett@graffiti.net) Received: (qmail 10754 invoked by uid 1001); 1 Nov 2002 08:47:04 -0000 Message-ID: <20021101084704.10753.qmail@graffiti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Received: from [66.51.217.108] by ws2.hk5.outblaze.com with http for derekbarrett@graffiti.net; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 16:47:04 +0800 From: "Derek Barrett" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 16:47:04 +0800 Subject: FreeBSD vs Linux (the next generation) X-Originating-Ip: 66.51.217.108 X-Originating-Server: ws2.hk5.outblaze.com Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alright, it's Friday so time for some more lighthearted discussion. Hopefully this page hasn't already been sent around the advocacy list, because it's pretty funny! Check it out: http://www.ariejan.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=12&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Nov 1 6:54:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8EB37B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 06:54:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy.centtech.com (moat.centtech.com [207.200.51.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B09343E97 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 06:54:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from sprint.centtech.com (sprint.centtech.com [10.177.173.31]) by proxy.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA1EsMs14663 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:54:22 -0600 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id gA1EsMD21917 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:54:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from centtech.com (electron [204.177.173.173]) by sprint.centtech.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA1EsJx21910 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:54:19 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3DC2959A.4@centtech.com> Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:54:18 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: To Do list / Goals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, after re-reading the archives from mid September, I've compiled this list of tasks and thoughts for the PR initiative. - Greg Brooks offered to do graphics, PR help, etc. -> let's take this kind offer. - database of tech editors/writers - Official PR website area - that's updated - BSD champion's kit -> for less "in the know" techies to spread the good info on FreeBSD - master list of major BSD vendors/consultants -> this is a GREAT idea. Maybe a list by area, with contact info so techies pushing FreeBSD have a "local"ish person they can ask for tips, etc. - Update Newsflash page -> let's get some real news on it. and keep it updated! - come up with a list of "FreeBSD pros" -> this should be easily found within 2 clicks of the main freebsd.org website. - a "bsd vs linux" table, with factoids and references - help page on building a presentation, with samples - keep an eye peeled for any news on freebsd, for addition to the newsflash page - hype hype hype 5.0 - downloadable poster's for the public - Talk with Apple about a little extra mention and "pat on the back" - get a "catch phrase" from each of the big freebsd using companies (yahoo.com for instance, might say "FreeBSD saves us thousands..." - choose media targets - make list of PR goals -> we want an article from x by y. - set up interviews - build team, organize above and get people on team to volunteer for the tasks - lurking -> we need to cover all the main mailing lists, and get the "scoop" from them, in order to promote and hype the "cool" stuff that freebsd has in the works. We should also take the announcements that people make on the lists, and offer to "PR"ize them into a format we can push to the editors/writers of the world. - build list of people we want to preview FreeBSD 5.0 -> and get them a copy with instructions on how to install. Did I miss anything? They aren't in any order yet. Lets make that the first priority. After we order them, we'll decide who starts on what, and get to work! Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Beware the fury of a patient man. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Nov 1 8:57: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E01FD37B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:57:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (anthonychavez.org [166.70.15.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED9F143E6E for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:57:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA1Gv1Ka004465; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:57:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: (from acc@localhost) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gA1Gv06a004464; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:57:00 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:57:00 -0700 From: "Anthony C. Chavez" To: Derek Barrett Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Linux (the next generation) Message-ID: <20021101165659.GA4249@anthonychavez.org> Mail-Followup-To: Derek Barrett , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20021101084704.10753.qmail@graffiti.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="T4sUOijqQbZv57TR" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021101084704.10753.qmail@graffiti.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-PGP-Key: http://www.anthonychavez.org/pubkey.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 04:47:04PM +0800, Derek Barrett wrote: > Hopefully this page hasn't already been sent around > the advocacy list, because it's pretty funny! Heh. That's actually kind of old, but I for one still get a nice chuckle out of it. :-) --=20 Anthony Chavez http://www.anthonychavez.org/ mailto:acc@anthonychavez.org jabber:acc@jabber.anthonychavez.org --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE9wrJbbZTbIaRBRXERAhlaAJ44EzdljzOwICbwjQoI27hlTCawigCghAzF kkdU1kpnOVJMam3mKKNarBE= =H1ve -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Nov 1 19:37:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E64537B401 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from web11806.mail.yahoo.com (web11806.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.160]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 050B843E91 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:37:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wyldephyre2@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20021102033749.13758.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.96.37] by web11806.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 19:37:49 PST Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:37:49 -0800 (PST) From: Haikal Saadh Subject: Re: To Do list / Goals To: Eric Anderson Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3DC2959A.4@centtech.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > (yahoo.com for instance, might say "FreeBSD saves us thousands..." > - choose media targets Hmmm. Yahoo's Talking about moving to PHP from a proprietary system. And one of the selection criteria for prospective languages (perl, php, java etc) was that it should run on FreeBSD. They didn't pick java because " you can’t really use Java w/o threads • Threads support on FreeBSD is not great " Interesting, yes? [http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/talks/yahoo-phpcon2002.htm] __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Nov 2 3:42:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506EB37B401; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 03:42:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout10.sul.t-online.com (mailout10.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271F143E6E; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 03:42:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fwd01.sul.t-online.de by mailout10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 187wfJ-0005Ti-00; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 12:42:09 +0100 Received: from jhs.muc.de (520006753247-0001@[217.235.114.85]) by fmrl01.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 187wf8-1doUiWC; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:41:58 +0100 Received: from flip.jhs.private (flip.jhs.private [192.168.91.24]) by jhs.muc.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA2BheH24956; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:43:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from flip.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flip.jhs.private (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA2Bh8s91584; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:43:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flip.jhs.private) Message-Id: <200211021143.gA2Bh8s91584@flip.jhs.private> To: webmaster@freebsd.org Cc: "Eric Anderson" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, "Oliver Fromme" Subject: Re: To Do list / Goals In-Reply-To: Message from Eric Anderson of "Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:54:18 CST." <3DC2959A.4@centtech.com> Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 12:43:08 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Sender: 520006753247-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG webmaster@freebsd.org, cc advocacy@, Oliver, Eric etc, > From: Oliver Fromme > To: jhs@berklix.com (Julian Stacey) > Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:22:54 +0200 (CEST) > > I noticed that the link to your "consultants index" on > the following page is broken: > http://www.freebsd.org/commercial/consulting.html#Julian_Stacey > From: Eric Anderson > Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:54:18 -0600 > To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > > - master list of major BSD vendors/consultants -> this is a GREAT idea. > Maybe a list by area, with contact info There are already Two FreeBSD commercial consultants lists ! http://www.freebsd.org/commercial/consulting.html - Alphabetic by name of person or company, (EG I'm under `J' for Julian), most useful if you already know who you want. - Has a Broken Link http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/consultants.html to my latest http://berklix.com/jhs/consultants.html http://berklix.com/jhs/consultants.html - Indexed geographicaly, sorted by continent, country, region, town, ideal to search for someone nearby, who you don't yet know. - Tabulated, no free text. - Split into full timers & part timers. - ( The freebsd.org list started after mine, but grew faster, but both are at least several years old.) The 2 pages should be merged, to merge & maintain, one would need: - agreement from webmaster@freebsd.org - commit bit to maintain the CVS'd freebsd.org web version, Work: - Strip (or comment out) descriptions from freebsd.org page, as there's no room in a table for all of this, & the info either grows stale or presents an extra update burden, the info is better updated by the consultant himself on his own page. Retain geographic location & contact URL's. - Reverse geographic index the whole thing. - Merge freebsd.org entries into my [or similar] tabular format. - Merge in all my entries, - Convert to SGML, - CVS commit, to replace both existing pages. - Maintain forever. I volunteer to do the work if freebsd.org restore my freebsd.org/~jhs/ (which was removed when someone wrongly thought it was not used). > so techies pushing FreeBSD > have a "local"ish person they can ask for tips, etc. Both commercial lists are not appropriate for people looking for free help (there's web & email for free help). For a tabulated list one could add an asterisk column if free help was also offered. Not sure how keen consultants would be to tick "Yes". PS Oliver (& other consultants), while I remember: send a _pre-formatted_ HTML entry for http://berklix.com/jhs/consultants.html & I'll add you, assuming you'd like to be. > - a "bsd vs linux" table, with factoids and references Someone may want to integrate http://people.freebsd.org/~murray/bsd_flier.html & other info into a printable leaflet format such as at: http://bim.bsn.com/leaflet/ If anyone does that please mail me the URL, thanks. Julian Stacey jhs @ berklix.com Computer Sys. Eng. & Unix Consultant, Munich Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. FreeBSD-4.7 just out - free with 7650 programs - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message