From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 14:40:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CED3837B401 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 14:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABEA543E6E for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 14:40:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from monica.cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.3]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA51738; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from monica.cs.rpi.edu (crossd@localhost) by monica.cs.rpi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g77Le5C78847; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:40:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from crossd@monica.cs.rpi.edu) Message-Id: <200208072140.g77Le5C78847@monica.cs.rpi.edu> To: fs@freebsd.org Cc: guptar@cs.rpi.edu Subject: vnodes (UFS journaling)? Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:40:05 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok, we've noticed an "unfortunate" side-effect of our work. We leak data (part of the journal shows up in other files). I think it is because of our handling of the vnode, and it being reused for other files (as oppsoed to trashing memory, etc. The entries it writes in the files are valid). We've tried _not_ calling vput(jvp) on it after the initial open but then any access to the file hangs the kernel (in inode). How can we say "don't reuse this" but allow other people to access it? -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Lab Director | Rm: 308 Lally Hall Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 16: 1:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8551337B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30B9D43E7B for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:01:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0264.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.9] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17cZoF-0007Qi-00; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:01:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3D51A6A3.87B90E3B@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:00:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "David E. Cross" Cc: fs@freebsd.org, guptar@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? References: <200208072140.g77Le5C78847@monica.cs.rpi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "David E. Cross" wrote: > Ok, we've noticed an "unfortunate" side-effect of our work. We leak data > (part of the journal shows up in other files). I think it is because > of our handling of the vnode, and it being reused for other files (as > oppsoed to trashing memory, etc. The entries it writes in the files are > valid). We've tried _not_ calling vput(jvp) on it after the initial > open but then any access to the file hangs the kernel (in inode). How > can we say "don't reuse this" but allow other people to access it? Wow. This is an incredibly opaque question. The normal way you prevent reuse is "don't give it back to the system in the first place, and it won't get given to someone else *by* the system". The normal way you make someone's reference to it "stale" is "assign deadops to it". Under no circumstances should you give it back to the system while there are references to it at all. What is it that you are trying to do with the vnode? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 17: 6:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA7137B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway.posi.net (adsl-63-201-89-168.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.201.89.168]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3347D43E65 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:06:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@posi.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gateway.posi.net (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g7805wvw008005; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@posi.net) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:05:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: Terry Lambert Cc: "David E. Cross" , , Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? In-Reply-To: <3D51A6A3.87B90E3B@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20020807170230.Y6264-100000@gateway.posi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > "David E. Cross" wrote: > > Ok, we've noticed an "unfortunate" side-effect of our work. We leak data > > (part of the journal shows up in other files). I think it is because > > What is it that you are trying to do with the vnode? > > -- Terry > I believe he is trying to keep a journal, likely as a file on the filesystem that is being journalled. I don't actually know, but that's what I would guess. Kelly -- Kelly Yancey -- kbyanc@{posi.net,FreeBSD.org} "No nation is permitted to live in ignorance with impunity." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1821. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 17:37:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4B2937B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E533243E6E for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:37:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from monica.cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.3]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA55546; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from monica.cs.rpi.edu (crossd@localhost) by monica.cs.rpi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g780b9H79114; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:37:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from crossd@monica.cs.rpi.edu) Message-Id: <200208080037.g780b9H79114@monica.cs.rpi.edu> To: Kelly Yancey Cc: Terry Lambert , "David E. Cross" , fs@FreeBSD.ORG, guptar@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? In-Reply-To: Message from Kelly Yancey of "Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:05:58 PDT." <20020807170230.Y6264-100000@gateway.posi.net> References: <20020807170230.Y6264-100000@gateway.posi.net> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 20:37:09 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > Ok, we've noticed an "unfortunate" side-effect of our work. We leak data > > > (part of the journal shows up in other files). I think it is because > > > > What is it that you are trying to do with the vnode? > > > > -- Terry > > > > I believe he is trying to keep a journal, likely as a file on the > filesystem that is being journalled. I don't actually know, but that's > what I would guess. That is exactly what we are trying to do. Everytime filesystem metadata is updated we track it in the journal. -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Lab Director | Rm: 308 Lally Hall Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 17:38:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8415937B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A6343E72 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:38:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from guptar@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from dishwasher.cs.rpi.edu (dishwasher.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.23]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA55571; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (guptar@localhost) by dishwasher.cs.rpi.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g780cVw24074; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:38:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: dishwasher.cs.rpi.edu: guptar owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:38:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Rashim Gupta To: Terry Lambert Cc: "David E. Cross" , Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? In-Reply-To: <3D51A6A3.87B90E3B@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org we are trying to implement a logging facility for the File System. Hence we need to open the log file and keep its vnode open throughout the duration while the system is mounted. Hence, we cannot free the vnode after searching for it using the root file system since we need to access it later on. However, if we do not return the vnode, then doing an "ls -al" in the dirctory where the log file is present hangs the kernel. Any suggestions how we can solve this problem. Thanks Rashim Gupta On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > "David E. Cross" wrote: > > Ok, we've noticed an "unfortunate" side-effect of our work. We leak data > > (part of the journal shows up in other files). I think it is because > > of our handling of the vnode, and it being reused for other files (as > > oppsoed to trashing memory, etc. The entries it writes in the files are > > valid). We've tried _not_ calling vput(jvp) on it after the initial > > open but then any access to the file hangs the kernel (in inode). How > > can we say "don't reuse this" but allow other people to access it? > > Wow. This is an incredibly opaque question. > > The normal way you prevent reuse is "don't give it back to the > system in the first place, and it won't get given to someone > else *by* the system". > > The normal way you make someone's reference to it "stale" is > "assign deadops to it". > > Under no circumstances should you give it back to the system > while there are references to it at all. > > What is it that you are trying to do with the vnode? > > -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 17:43:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35D8737B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A639743E3B for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:43:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0264.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.9] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17cbOW-0000tx-00; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:43:16 -0700 Message-ID: <3D51BE6F.298F0AF@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:42:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kelly Yancey Cc: "David E. Cross" , fs@FreeBSD.ORG, guptar@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? References: <20020807170230.Y6264-100000@gateway.posi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kelly Yancey wrote: > On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > > "David E. Cross" wrote: > > > Ok, we've noticed an "unfortunate" side-effect of our work. We leak data > > > (part of the journal shows up in other files). I think it is because > > > > What is it that you are trying to do with the vnode? > > > > -- Terry > > > > I believe he is trying to keep a journal, likely as a file on the > filesystem that is being journalled. I don't actually know, but that's > what I would guess. I understand that he's working on a journalling FS. I'm wondering what reaccessing vnodes has to do with journalling? A vnode is an in-core abstract representation of a file in a file system, that has a non-abstract real file association in the FS itself. A vnode doesn't know about the journalling taking place in the underlying FS -- and *shouldn't* know about it. The VFS interface layer is intended as a method of abstracting *exacly* this sort of implementation detail. I'm wondering why journalling would ever be visible via a vnode interaction, as a system artifact, when all the journaling operations are encapsulated in the FS implementation proper, at the non-abstract layer (in FFS terms, journalling would be a per inode operation, not per vnode operation). The *only* place you would really make the underlying structure visible at all, IMO, would be in the addition of VNOPs to add a transactioning interface for user applications. Even then, though, the operations would *still* be abstract. It *seems* like they are trying to implement the journals above the vnode layer, which makes no sense at all... so the question is *why* this is a *vnode* issue at all, ever, under *any* possible interpretation of the problem that's being solved? If they are having data corruption problems, it's lower down. The question, as he asked it, is a total non-sequitur, given his introductory text. It's like asking "Is it shorter to New York, or by bus?". -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 17:55:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0D3237B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85E5543E77 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:55:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0264.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.9] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17cbZq-00015Q-00; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:54:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3D51C12D.354F6D99@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:54:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "David E. Cross" Cc: Kelly Yancey , fs@FreeBSD.ORG, guptar@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? References: <20020807170230.Y6264-100000@gateway.posi.net> <200208080037.g780b9H79114@monica.cs.rpi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "David E. Cross" wrote: > > > > Ok, we've noticed an "unfortunate" side-effect of our work. We leak data > > > > (part of the journal shows up in other files). I think it is because > > > > > > What is it that you are trying to do with the vnode? > > > > I believe he is trying to keep a journal, likely as a file on the > > filesystem that is being journalled. I don't actually know, but that's > > what I would guess. > > That is exactly what we are trying to do. Everytime filesystem metadata is > updated we track it in the journal. Your question still makes no sense. What does doing this have to do with vnodes? It sounds like you are trying to use a vnode to represent a journal entry, rather than an abstract reference to a file in a file system. Vnodes are the OS's idea of a file stream. It's the VFS's job to translate a vnode argument to a file stream operation (VOP_*) into a reference to a VFS implementation-specific backing object (e.g. an inode reference), and it's *that* object off of which your journal extents have to be referenced. Basically, this comes down to your internal implementation of VOP_GETPAGES, VOP_READ, VOP_PUTPAGES, and VOP_WRITE, and how these get translated into journal references and writes, respectively. Maybe the problem is that you are using the default version of the {get|put}pages, such that vmo_bject_t page references are translated into raw device page writes, instead of going thorugh your VFS specific versions and turning into journal entries as a result of pages being dirtied? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 18: 7:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98C437B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6717E43E42 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:07:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0264.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.9] helo=mindspring.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17cbmC-0005Uz-00; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 18:07:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3D51C42B.8C406A60@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 18:06:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rashim Gupta Cc: "David E. Cross" , fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rashim Gupta wrote: > we are trying to implement a logging facility for the File System. Hence > we need to open the log file and keep its vnode open throughout the > duration while the system is mounted. Hence, we cannot free the vnode > after searching for it using the root file system since we need to access > it later on. However, if we do not > return the vnode, then doing an "ls -al" in the dirctory where the log > file is present hangs the kernel. > > Any suggestions how we can solve this problem. AHA! It was confusing because David kept referencing that this was a journalling FS, not a project to just do metadata logging ala ReiserFS. You are trying to do this the wrong way. Ideally, you would not be using a log file which was a *file*. However... You can still use a file for this, on the FS, but it's a moderately ugly thing to do it by vnode (if you put the log file on another FS, you can get an undetectable deadly embrace deadlock as a result of mutual locking). The code you want to look at for an example that does what you want to do is in /usr/src/sys/ufs/ufs/ufs_quota.c. Specifically, look at the quotaon(), quotaoff(), aysync(), dqget(), dqsync(), and dqrele() code. Note that the vnode references in um_quotas[] are held in the in core mount structure, and do not interfere with the ability to deal with the "ls" case you are worried about, because the references are held... but not locked at the time an "ls" occurs. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 18:13:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAE7237B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB9D43E42 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:13:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crossd@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from monica.cs.rpi.edu (monica.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.7.3]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00770; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from monica.cs.rpi.edu (crossd@localhost) by monica.cs.rpi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g781Ddu79224; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:13:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from crossd@monica.cs.rpi.edu) Message-Id: <200208080113.g781Ddu79224@monica.cs.rpi.edu> To: Terry Lambert Cc: "David E. Cross" , Kelly Yancey , fs@FreeBSD.ORG, guptar@cs.rpi.edu, crossd@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? In-Reply-To: Message from Terry Lambert of "Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:54:05 PDT." <3D51C12D.354F6D99@mindspring.com> References: <20020807170230.Y6264-100000@gateway.posi.net> <200208080037.g780b9H79114@monica.cs.rpi.edu> <3D51C12D.354F6D99@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 21:13:39 -0400 From: "David E. Cross" Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What we are currently doing is at filesystem mount we construct a vnode-pointer to the journal file. Then we use that vp to use VOP_WRITE (and maybe VOP_READ in the future). I take it that this isn't kosher, and we will need to rework this to use low-level UFS calls? > Your question still makes no sense. > > What does doing this have to do with vnodes? > > It sounds like you are trying to use a vnode to represent a > journal entry, rather than an abstract reference to a file > in a file system. > > Vnodes are the OS's idea of a file stream. It's the VFS's > job to translate a vnode argument to a file stream operation > (VOP_*) into a reference to a VFS implementation-specific > backing object (e.g. an inode reference), and it's *that* > object off of which your journal extents have to be referenced. > > Basically, this comes down to your internal implementation > of VOP_GETPAGES, VOP_READ, VOP_PUTPAGES, and VOP_WRITE, and > how these get translated into journal references and writes, > respectively. > > Maybe the problem is that you are using the default version > of the {get|put}pages, such that vmo_bject_t page references > are translated into raw device page writes, instead of going > thorugh your VFS specific versions and turning into journal > entries as a result of pages being dirtied? -- David Cross | email: crossd@cs.rpi.edu Lab Director | Rm: 308 Lally Hall Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, | Ph: 518.276.2860 Department of Computer Science | Fax: 518.276.4033 I speak only for myself. | WinNT:Linux::Linux:FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 18:30:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654CD37B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A75A43E72 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0264.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.9] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17cc7r-0004cc-00; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 18:30:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3D51C969.9D02F938@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 18:29:13 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "David E. Cross" Cc: Kelly Yancey , fs@FreeBSD.ORG, guptar@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? References: <20020807170230.Y6264-100000@gateway.posi.net> <200208080037.g780b9H79114@monica.cs.rpi.edu> <3D51C12D.354F6D99@mindspring.com> <200208080113.g781Ddu79224@monica.cs.rpi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "David E. Cross" wrote: > > What we are currently doing is at filesystem mount we construct a > vnode-pointer to the journal file. Then we use that vp to > use VOP_WRITE (and maybe VOP_READ in the future). > > I take it that this isn't kosher, and we will need to rework this to use > low-level UFS calls? See previous posting for source code examples. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 21:58:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F227B37B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:58:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway.posi.net (adsl-63-201-90-187.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.201.90.187]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FE8743E3B for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:58:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@posi.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gateway.posi.net (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g784vgq4000681; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:57:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kbyanc@posi.net) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 21:57:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Yancey To: Terry Lambert Cc: "David E. Cross" , , Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? In-Reply-To: <3D51BE6F.298F0AF@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20020807214625.C667-100000@gateway.posi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > Kelly Yancey wrote: > > > > I believe he is trying to keep a journal, likely as a file on the > > filesystem that is being journalled. I don't actually know, but that's > > what I would guess. > > I understand that he's working on a journalling FS. > > I'm wondering what reaccessing vnodes has to do with journalling? > > A vnode is an in-core abstract representation of a file in > a file system, that has a non-abstract real file association > in the FS itself. A vnode doesn't know about the journalling > taking place in the underlying FS -- and *shouldn't* know > about it. The VFS interface layer is intended as a method of > abstracting *exacly* this sort of implementation detail. > [ snip ] Yeah, I've read the Red Book too. :) I would guess that the vnode in question is the vnode representing the journal file itself. How you journal filesystem operations to a file on that very filesystem is beyond me, but I'm sure the bright boys at RPI have figured it out...barring the problem that David wrote -fs about and which we have conveniently neglected to answer. :) Kelly -- Kelly Yancey -- kbyanc@{posi.net,FreeBSD.org} "No nation is permitted to live in ignorance with impunity." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1821. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 22:25:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B7837B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from magic.adaptec.com (magic.adaptec.com [208.236.45.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D622B43E75 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:25:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scottl@btc.adaptec.com) Received: from redfish.adaptec.com (redfish.adaptec.com [162.62.50.11]) by magic.adaptec.com (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g785OeG29747; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from btc.btc.adaptec.com (btc.btc.adaptec.com [10.100.0.52]) by redfish.adaptec.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA29946; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hollin.btc.adaptec.com (hollin [10.100.253.56]) by btc.btc.adaptec.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03017; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:24:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hollin.btc.adaptec.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hollin.btc.adaptec.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g785LAjF047654; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:21:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@hollin.btc.adaptec.com) Received: (from scottl@localhost) by hollin.btc.adaptec.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g785L9iZ047653; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:21:09 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:21:09 -0600 From: Scott Long To: Kelly Yancey Cc: Terry Lambert , "David E. Cross" , fs@freebsd.org, guptar@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? Message-ID: <20020808052109.GC47545@hollin.btc.adaptec.com> References: <3D51BE6F.298F0AF@mindspring.com> <20020807214625.C667-100000@gateway.posi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020807214625.C667-100000@gateway.posi.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Aug 07, 2002 at 09:57:42PM -0700, Kelly Yancey wrote: > On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Kelly Yancey wrote: > > > > > > I believe he is trying to keep a journal, likely as a file on the > > > filesystem that is being journalled. I don't actually know, but that's > > > what I would guess. > > > > I understand that he's working on a journalling FS. > > > > I'm wondering what reaccessing vnodes has to do with journalling? > > > > A vnode is an in-core abstract representation of a file in > > a file system, that has a non-abstract real file association > > in the FS itself. A vnode doesn't know about the journalling > > taking place in the underlying FS -- and *shouldn't* know > > about it. The VFS interface layer is intended as a method of > > abstracting *exacly* this sort of implementation detail. > > > [ snip ] > > Yeah, I've read the Red Book too. :) I would guess that the vnode in > question is the vnode representing the journal file itself. How you journal > filesystem operations to a file on that very filesystem is beyond me, but I'm > sure the bright boys at RPI have figured it out...barring the problem that > David wrote -fs about and which we have conveniently neglected to answer. :) > > Kelly > I'll chime in and say that, as much as it pains me to admit, Terry is right =-). Manipualting the journal file from the vnode layer is the wrong way to go about this. However, if you want to push forward in a quick-n-dirty manner right now, you could probably hack up ufs_lookup() to not return a vnode for the journal file. Then you can keep your reference on the vnode and not worry about contention. That said, I'd really looking forward to seeing the results of your work. Scott To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 22:46:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B7037B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EF1143E4A for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:46:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id C73ADAE162; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:46:27 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Rashim Gupta Cc: Terry Lambert , "David E. Cross" , fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? Message-ID: <20020808054627.GE10953@elvis.mu.org> References: <3D51A6A3.87B90E3B@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Rashim Gupta [020807 17:38] wrote: > > > we are trying to implement a logging facility for the File System. Hence > we need to open the log file and keep its vnode open throughout the > duration while the system is mounted. Hence, we cannot free the vnode > after searching for it using the root file system since we need to access > it later on. However, if we do not > return the vnode, then doing an "ls -al" in the dirctory where the log > file is present hangs the kernel. > > Any suggestions how we can solve this problem. Are you sure you're not leaving the vnode locked? Several vnode operations are not symmetrical, meaning that they may return a locked vnode or unlock a locked one, perhaps you are missing a VOP_UNLOCK somewhere? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 22:54:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EE6C37B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 209E743E5E for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:54:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id E9534AE03F; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:54:33 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Scott Long Cc: Kelly Yancey , Terry Lambert , "David E. Cross" , fs@freebsd.org, guptar@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? Message-ID: <20020808055433.GG10953@elvis.mu.org> References: <3D51BE6F.298F0AF@mindspring.com> <20020807214625.C667-100000@gateway.posi.net> <20020808052109.GC47545@hollin.btc.adaptec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020808052109.GC47545@hollin.btc.adaptec.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Scott Long [020807 22:25] wrote: > > I'll chime in and say that, as much as it pains me to admit, Terry is > right =-). Manipualting the journal file from the vnode layer is > the wrong way to go about this. However, if you want to push forward > in a quick-n-dirty manner right now, you could probably hack up > ufs_lookup() to not return a vnode for the journal file. Then you > can keep your reference on the vnode and not worry about contention. This is incorrect. UFS snapshots return vnodes for the snapshot files, it's just that the UFS code makes sure no one can write to these special files. To all those involved, if you want to help, please UTSL before leading people astray. :( -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Aug 7 23: 1:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B0A37B400 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84EF843E4A for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:01:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@elvis.mu.org) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 621A7AE03F; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:01:33 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: "David E. Cross" Cc: fs@freebsd.org, guptar@cs.rpi.edu Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? Message-ID: <20020808060133.GH10953@elvis.mu.org> References: <200208072140.g77Le5C78847@monica.cs.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200208072140.g77Le5C78847@monica.cs.rpi.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * David E. Cross [020807 14:41] wrote: > Ok, we've noticed an "unfortunate" side-effect of our work. We leak data > (part of the journal shows up in other files). I think it is because > of our handling of the vnode, and it being reused for other files (as > oppsoed to trashing memory, etc. The entries it writes in the files are > valid). We've tried _not_ calling vput(jvp) on it after the initial > open but then any access to the file hangs the kernel (in inode). How > can we say "don't reuse this" but allow other people to access it? VOP_UNLOCK? :) -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] [#bsdcode/efnet/irc.prison.net] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Aug 8 14:32:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2737937B400 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web21106.mail.yahoo.com (web21106.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.227.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CCCCA43E65 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:32:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hitmaster2k@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20020808213242.72797.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.0.5] by web21106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 14:32:42 PDT Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:32:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Hiten Pandya Reply-To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? To: Rashim Gupta , Terry Lambert Cc: "David E. Cross" , fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Rashim Gupta wrote: > we are trying to implement a logging facility for the File System. Hence > we need to open the log file and keep its vnode open throughout the > duration while the system is mounted. Hence, we cannot free the vnode > after searching for it using the root file system since we need to access > it later on. However, if we do not > return the vnode, then doing an "ls -al" in the dirctory where the log > file is present hangs the kernel. Just wondering, are you planning to use a device, or just a file on a filesystem for doing the logging? -- Hiten Pandya -- hiten at uk dot freebsd dot org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Aug 8 14:58:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7986037B400 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:58:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs.rpi.edu (mumble.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.8.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0DB843E5E for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:58:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from guptar@cs.rpi.edu) Received: from go.cs.rpi.edu (go.cs.rpi.edu [128.213.12.7]) by cs.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29924; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (guptar@localhost) by go.cs.rpi.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g78LwmD02256; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:58:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: go.cs.rpi.edu: guptar owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:58:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Rashim Gupta To: Cc: "David E. Cross" , , Rashim Gupta Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? In-Reply-To: <20020808213242.72797.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Although as of now we are writing it into a log file on the filesystem, however it should also work for a device On Thu, 8 Aug 2002, Hiten Pandya wrote: > --- Rashim Gupta wrote: > > we are trying to implement a logging facility for the File System. Hence > > we need to open the log file and keep its vnode open throughout the > > duration while the system is mounted. Hence, we cannot free the vnode > > after searching for it using the root file system since we need to access > > it later on. However, if we do not > > return the vnode, then doing an "ls -al" in the dirctory where the log > > file is present hangs the kernel. > > Just wondering, are you planning to use a device, or just a file on a > filesystem for doing the logging? > > -- Hiten Pandya > -- hiten at uk dot freebsd dot org > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Aug 8 15: 3:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9C0237B400 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6218D43E72 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:03:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0394.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.43.139] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17cvNg-00051P-00; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 15:03:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3D52EA8C.EB3C94A5@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 15:02:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: Rashim Gupta , "David E. Cross" , fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? References: <20020808213242.72797.qmail@web21106.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hiten Pandya wrote: > --- Rashim Gupta wrote: > > we are trying to implement a logging facility for the File System. Hence > > we need to open the log file and keep its vnode open throughout the > > duration while the system is mounted. Hence, we cannot free the vnode > > after searching for it using the root file system since we need to access > > it later on. However, if we do not > > return the vnode, then doing an "ls -al" in the dirctory where the log > > file is present hangs the kernel. > > Just wondering, are you planning to use a device, or just a file on a > filesystem for doing the logging? They are using a file. He said so right in his second sentence which you are quoting, above. I've already pointed them to source code to do what they need. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Thu Aug 8 23:49:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C517D37B400 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D076843E3B for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:49:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.4/8.12.4) with SMTP id g796msOo026339; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:48:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:48:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Rashim Gupta Cc: Terry Lambert , "David E. Cross" , fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vnodes (UFS journaling)? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Rashim Gupta wrote: > we are trying to implement a logging facility for the File System. Hence > we need to open the log file and keep its vnode open throughout the > duration while the system is mounted. Hence, we cannot free the vnode > after searching for it using the root file system since we need to > access it later on. However, if we do not return the vnode, then doing > an "ls -al" in the dirctory where the log file is present hangs the > kernel. Sounds like you are holding onto the vnode lock rather than releasing it, which causes processes to hang trying to acquire the lock. BTW, one disadvantage to using the "write to a vnode for logging" approach at this level is that it opens you up to potential lock order problems that can result in deadlocks. There are some obscure deadlock situations as a result of similar approaches taken in the quota and UFS1 extended attribute code. These generally occur when you attempt to lock a vnode while holding other vnode locks, and there's no defined lock order relationship between the two vnodes (generally, lock orders in VFS are derived from the hierarchal namespace). Depending on when you write to the journal, you might be able to avoid this, especially if you can avoid writing to the journal while holding regular file locks (only directory locks). You might also want to look at the WAFS (write-ahead file system) code posted to this list about a year ago by researchers at Harvard who used WAFS to hold journal data. WAFS is, from an off-handed recollection, a cyclic record file system designed for rapid append of ordered records. You can find a brief discussion of the file system in the paper by Seltzer, McKusick, et al, in the USENIX ATC 2000 proceedings, I believe. When I looked at the code, it clearly had experimental aspects (for example, my recollection is that access control for the log isn't implemented), but it might be a useful thing to look at. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Sat Aug 10 5:49: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFD6637B400; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 05:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (dsl-212-135-221-183.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.221.183]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E63CC43E72; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 05:48:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from konar_adrienne@hotmail.com) Received: from unknown (HELO rly-yk05.pesdets.com) (4.71.194.105) by rly-xw05.oxyeli.com with smtp; 10 Aug 0102 05:43:31 +0400 Received: from [30.153.34.83] by rly-yk04.aolmd.com with QMQP; 10 Aug 0102 09:39:42 -0400 Received: from 49.12.206.153 ([49.12.206.153]) by asy100.as122.sol-superunderline.com with asmtp; 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