From owner-freebsd-i18n Tue Mar 12 7:47:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from gate.sim.ionidea.com (ion.so-com.net [212.110.132.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87B1D37B89B for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:46:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from phantom@localhost) by gate.sim.ionidea.com (8.11.6/8.11.1) id g2CFGA758410; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:16:10 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from phantom) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:16:09 +0200 From: Alexey Zelkin To: i18n@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD i18n related plans Message-ID: <20020312171609.A94497@gate.sim.ionidea.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.20i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.2-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Folks, I'd like to share my and collect your plans related to internationalization work for next few months. Idea of this letter is: . To receive useful ideas, comments and feedback on current and future i18n way of FreeBSD. My targets are noted below and your comments/additions to this list are welcome! . To share information about ongoing i18n related projects. If you're involved to any such project please post short notice and project description to this mailing list. . To collect stale/suspended/not-started projects and possibly find volunteers to take them over. If you've information on such kind of projects/ideas please post it to this mailing list or to me directly. . And at general -- to make FreeBSD more friendly to not-english speaking/reading people. If you've notes by any of these points -- answer right now ! :-) Briefly about my short-term plans: 1. I am going to MFC bunch of locale and time specific changes soon to RELENG_4. Main aim of this merge is to sync -current and -stable locale handling code. This MFC brings to -stable few useful features, like: . support for LC_MESSAGES/LC_NUMERIC/LC_MONETARY locale categories (i.e. . support for nl_langinfo(3) . bunch of changes to str[fp]time(3) functions, like adding of new POSIX specifiers, removing of some non-standard specifiers (like %E[Ff]) As soon as it will be committed I would ask you to check these changes against your locale experience. I am using these changes at my system for some time, but I can prove their correctness against english and russian locales only. 2. I am going to port from NetBSD NLS stuff used to translate libc error and signal messages. This change will affect results of strerror(), strsignal(), perror() and psignal() functions. They'll return translated errors message according to current locale set. 3. We (few people) are planing to start implementing NLS support for base system utilities, i.e. to provide i18n support to applications which live in /bin, /usr.bin, etc. There're two possible options: a) implement this using standard NLS stuff (catopen()/catgets()/catclose()). Pros and Cons of this way: Pros: . infrastructure is already implemented and used in FreeBSD for long time Cons: . translated strings are referred by numeric Ids (this will require spending more time on synchronization) . no infrastructure to generate source catalogs and check outdated translated catalogs exists b) implement this using gettext. Actually there're two possible choices of infrastructure: GNU gettext (GPL) or Citrus libintl (BSDL). Pros: . simple maintaince of translated catalogs . no fixed Ids for messages . some of base tree tools already have translated catalogs (not imported to base tree by default) Cons: . In BSDL case: no maintaince tools under BSDL available, only library. . In GPL case: licensing problems. . In both cases -- possibility to hit into outdated library with new (changed) .po/.mo files format case. Also I am interesting in case of having both in-tree and ports versions of libintl. Any ideas how to do it (except exact renaming of in-tree version) ? 4) As continue of previous idea is to implement i18n of user interaction infrastructure. For example application should not just ask for: Are you sure [y/n]: yes but use nl_langinfo(3) to receive translated "yes" and "no" message. Like: printf("%s? [%s/%s] ", _i18n("Are you sure), nl_langinfo(YESSTR), nl_langinfo(NOSTR)); Also use "yesexpr" and "noexpr" (also available from nl_langinfo()) to parse answer (to respect national positive/negative answer values). 5) And last idea that I have in mind is to start implementing POSIX compatible localedef(1) utility and to completely replace our current source locale data with POSIX compatible ones. Additions, comments ? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-i18n Tue Mar 12 20:59:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from ms26.tisnet.net.tw (ms26.tisnet.net.tw [139.223.200.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4780A37B405 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ms23.tisnet.net.tw (ms23.tisnet.net.tw [139.223.200.236]) by ms26.tisnet.net.tw (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09667 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:57:39 +0800 Received: from index (tp196129.ts.tisnet.net.tw [139.223.196.129]) by ms23.tisnet.net.tw (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13889 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:49:31 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:49:31 +0800 (CST) Received: from microsoft by mail.sysnet.net.tw with SMTP id ImLqP9ePVz9Dp7vrdAKUK; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:59:44 +0800 Message-ID: From: CLOS03132@ms23.tisnet.net.tw To: School@ms23.tisnet.net.tw Subject: =?big5?Q?=B1=C0=C2=CB=A8=E7Suggestion from edison=A1@=A1@=A1@=A1@=A1@=A1@=A1@=A1@=A1@=A1@=A1@=A1@?= jbuiukCMcGwwEzwqEZ93sds5S3dA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_cDQwETU0n9SBItSjP" X-Mailer: jALi80E1E5dUlgrgRXM8yWjG8P9 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_cDQwETU0n9SBItSjP Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_cDQwETU0n9SBItSjPAA" ------=_NextPart_cDQwETU0n9SBItSjPAA Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PE1FVEEgSFRUUC1FUVVJVj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBDT05URU5UPSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7Y2hhcnNl dD1iaWc1Ij4NCjxodG1sPg0KDQo8aGVhZD4NCjx0aXRsZT4zpOul97HAwsuo5zwvdGl0bGU+DQo8 L2hlYWQ+DQoNCjxmcmFtZXNldCBmcmFtZWJvcmRlcj0iMCIgYm9yZGVyPSIwIiBmcmFtZXNwYWNp bmc9IjAiIHJvd3M9IjEiPg0KICA8ZnJhbWUgbmFtZT0iZXBhcGVyIiBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9ob21l LnBjaG9tZS5jb20udHcvY2x1Yi9nZDE2OHR3L3RlbGwuaHRtIj4NCiAgPG5vZnJhbWVzPg0KICA8 Ym9keT4NCiAgPHA+M6TrpfexwMLLqOc8L3A+DQogIDxwPjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly9ob21lLnBj aG9tZS5jb20udHcvY2x1Yi9nZDE2OHR3L3RlbGwuaHRtIj690Kv2prk8L2E+PC9wPg0KICA8L2Jv ZHk+DQogIDwvbm9mcmFtZXM+DQo8L2ZyYW1lc2V0Pg0KPC9odG1sPg== ------=_NextPart_cDQwETU0n9SBItSjPAA-- ------=_NextPart_cDQwETU0n9SBItSjP-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-i18n Wed Mar 13 11:10:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org Received: from mail.demos.su (relay1.demos.su [194.87.0.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F16E37B402; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [194.87.2.36] (HELO cavia.pp.ru) by mail.demos.su (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.7/D) with ESMTP-TLS id 17309064; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:10:08 +0300 Received: (from mitya@localhost) by cavia.pp.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2DJ8lC02200; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:08:47 +0300 (MSK) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:08:47 +0300 From: Dmitry Sivachenko To: Alexey Zelkin Cc: i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD i18n related plans Message-ID: <20020313190847.GC211@cavia.pp.ru> References: <20020312171609.A94497@gate.sim.ionidea.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020312171609.A94497@gate.sim.ionidea.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 05:16:09PM +0200, Alexey Zelkin wrote: > a) implement this using standard NLS stuff (catopen()/catgets()/catclose()). > Pros and Cons of this way: > > Pros: > . infrastructure is already implemented and used in FreeBSD for long time > > Cons: > . translated strings are referred by numeric Ids (this will require > spending more time on synchronization) > . no infrastructure to generate source catalogs and check outdated > translated catalogs exists > > b) implement this using gettext. Actually there're two > possible choices of infrastructure: GNU gettext (GPL) or Citrus > libintl (BSDL). > I am all for including GNU gettext into the base system. What is the licensing problems you are talking about? We have a lot of GNU staff in base system. May be I am missing something... 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