From owner-freebsd-small Sun Jun 30 8:34:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8DEB37B405 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 08:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (dsl3-63-249-66-210.cruzio.com [63.249.66.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245E643E09 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 08:34:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: (from brucem@localhost) by mail.cruzio.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g5UFn9400581; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 08:49:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brucem) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 08:49:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bruce R. Montague" Message-Id: <200206301549.g5UFn9400581@mail.cruzio.com> To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: re: [patch] use ld(1) to build kernel with linked-in md(4) filesys Cc: gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org, iedowse@maths.tcd.ie Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Jerry, I think I may have lost some context on your recent message, subject "[patch] use ld(1) ... linked-in md(4) filesys", that starts "> The patch seems to remove". Perhaps there was a leading paragraph that didn't get pasted or somesuch. * If I understand, you have a patch that involves relinking the kernel image (effectively an image copy with alterations, brought by the goodness of ELF?). * During this relink, the size of the md filesystem in the image (is this a segment or section?) can be changed. * The relink can be controlled by a "picobsd" script command, which will support new "relink" options... or is another script intended? What is "it's" in "Yes, it's intended to replace the MD_ROOT_SIZE" option? * During a relink, a compile/build cycle must be done in conjunction with having the old image to be relinked available (?). Additional control files such as (/usr/locl/src/picobsd/conf) can steer" the relink process. * The kernel build makefile has been modified with additional targets so that it can link what it's got at the time (might not be all you need), and also attempt to link to produce a final bootable kernel. * Basically, going in the direction of a kernel binary linkage editor.... * The PR 40017 adds options to config so that locations of the the source tree and config file tree can be explicitly provided. Is this basically right? Sorry to seem so thick this morning, I'm asking because this sounds like very interesting good stuff that would make picobsd more tractable... and I did enjoy relinking with IEWL... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Jun 30 11:57:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8783037B400 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 11:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gehicks.dyndns.org (adsl-20-182-250.asm.bellsouth.net [66.20.182.250]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 774A043E13 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 11:57:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org) Received: from mac (mac [10.0.0.13]) by gehicks.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g5UJ4gb1002133 for ; Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:04:42 GMT (envelope-from gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 14:57:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Fwd: [patch] use ld(1) to build kernel with linked-in md(4) filesys From: W Gerald Hicks To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <31B4E519-8C5B-11D6-BBF1-0030657B5F1E@gehicks.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Had a problem on first reply to small@: Begin forwarded message: > On Sunday, June 30, 2002, at 11:49 AM, Bruce R. Montague wrote: > >> >> >> Hi, Jerry, I think I may have lost some context >> on your recent message, subject "[patch] use ld(1) >> ... linked-in md(4) filesys", that starts "> The >> patch seems to remove". Perhaps there was a leading >> paragraph that didn't get pasted or somesuch. >> > > No, you didn't lose context. I didn't supply enough. Sorry about that. > >> * If I understand, you have a patch that involves >> relinking the kernel image (effectively an image >> copy with alterations, brought by the goodness of >> ELF?). >> > > Well, actually it uses 'ld -r' and objcopy which have been available > for both ELF and COFF for some time now. Weak symbols are better > supported by ELF however and those are used in the update for md.c > >> * During this relink, the size of the md filesystem >> in the image (is this a segment or section?) can >> be changed. >> > > Previously it was a fixed-size character array. Now there are weak > symbols > defining the variables. If they haven't been backed up by any "real" > variables during final link they end up being zero and are avoided by > a runtime check. The new scheme allows the filesystem to be sized > flexibly > without need for a predefined fixed region within the kernel. > >> * The relink can be controlled by a "picobsd" script >> command, which will support new "relink" options... >> or is another script intended? What is "it's" in >> "Yes, it's intended to replace the MD_ROOT_SIZE" >> option? >> > > Sorry, I meant to say that my intention is to replace MD_ROOT_SIZE > with the functionality provided by the MD_ROOT_IMAGE scheme. > > In actuality, a one-pass link with a prebuilt md(4) filesystem object > works fine. The 'RLINK' functionality was to answer the need for > subsequent relinks with modified filesystem images (requested by phk). > > >> * During a relink, a compile/build cycle must be >> done in conjunction with having the old image to >> be relinked available (?). Additional control >> files such as (/usr/locl/src/picobsd/conf) can >> steer" the relink process. > > Bingo! > > Note that with the new scheme it won't be necessary > to build picobsd or its kernel within src/ > > Personally, I'd like to see src/release/picobsd removed > and maybe built with ports/picobsd/VARIANT or something. > > This would open up access to allow ports committers to > administer non-committer updates, hopefully leading > to a better and more maintained picobsd. > > >> The kernel build makefile has been modified with >> additional targets so that it can link what it's >> got at the time (might not be all you need), and >> also attempt to link to produce a final bootable >> kernel. > > Yes, basically the same as what VxWorks does for their kernel. > >> >> * Basically, going in the direction of a kernel >> binary linkage editor.... >> >> * The PR 40017 adds options to config so that >> locations of the the source tree and config file >> tree can be explicitly provided. > > Yes. Although much work has been done for > the src/Makefile 'kernel' target there was not much > done with config(8) to facilitate deviant or OEM builds. > >> Is this basically right? >> > > Thanks for having the patience to correctly decipher my > intentions. > > I was basically trying to stir up small@ for some discussion > on the issues. Looks like that much worked anyway :-) > >> Sorry to seem so thick this morning, I'm asking >> because this sounds like very interesting good >> stuff that would make picobsd more tractable... >> and I did enjoy relinking with IEWL... > > I think it was more a matter of me being thick when I cc'd > freebsd-small a bit prematurely. I'll have some more bits > to add to this soon. > > Meanwhile, your ideas and criticisms are solicited. > > Cheers, > > Jerry Hicks > gehixz@bellsouth.net > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jul 1 23:46:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D68737B400 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ddba033.netstream.ch (ddba033.netstream.ch [62.65.128.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD1F43E09 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:46:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mk@neon1.net) Received: from CNMKA (wg.mtfsg.ch [80.238.135.122]) by ddba033.netstream.ch (8.11.1/8.11.4) with ESMTP id g626kcL33084 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 08:46:38 +0200 (CEST) From: "Manuel Kasper" To: Subject: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 08:45:39 +0200 Message-ID: <000201c22194$171e66e0$8c7da8c0@CNMKA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I've just finished my guide on how to strip FreeBSD of "unnecessary" things without going as minimalistic as e.g. PicoBSD. I wanted something in between a FreeBSD "minimal" install (which still takes up about 80 MB) and PicoBSD. If you're interested, it's available on http://neon1.net/misc/minibsd.html I now have FreeBSD 4.6 running on my net4501 embedded PC from Soekris Engineering (on which the guide is based); the operating system takes up about 31 MB on the 64 MB CF card (including frills like perl, thttpd, dhcpd, ...); without perl it works out to about 21 MB - so there's ample space left for user data. I've tried not to sacrifice any important funcionality, and so you can ssh/ftp in like on a normal FreeBSD system, and most commands are available. I welcome any suggestions/feedback on how this guide could be improved. Greets, Manuel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 0:20:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2560237B405; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 00:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from homemail.bjt.net (homemail.bjt.net [209.237.6.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A91543E09; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 00:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bko@idiom.com) Received: from foo.fake.primenet.com [209.237.31.190] by homemail.bjt.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.10) id A25B21040204; Tue, 02 Jul 2002 00:12:27 -0700 Received: from baz.fake.primenet.com (baz [10.0.0.3]) by foo.fake.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA89602; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 00:20:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bko@idiom.com) Received: from baz.fake.primenet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baz.fake.primenet.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g627KRVV002680; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 00:20:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bkogawa@baz.fake.primenet.com) Received: (from bkogawa@localhost) by baz.fake.primenet.com (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g627KQdU002677; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 00:20:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bryan K. Ogawa" Message-Id: <200207020720.g627KQdU002677@baz.fake.primenet.com> To: "Bryan K. Ogawa" , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: boundless/virgin webplayer audio / sound In-Reply-To: References: <10252314180593660000> Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 00:20:26 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Bryan K. Ogawa wrote: >> >> > >> > hi, >> > >> > i've been fiddling with a boundless/virgin webplayer. i've managed to get >> > it to boot a picobsd image that i've made (after first fixing the missing >> > libs in the copy of the net profile). >> > >> > now, i'm trying to get audio working. i have compiled in the pcm and sbc >> > drivers, and i can get it to record audio, but not play audio. I have solved this problem, thanks to the webplayer board at http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowBoard&Board=vwgeneral&Idle=&Sort=&Order=&Session= the reason audio out doesn't work is that by default the line is not muted. It must be muted to play audio. Using FreeBSD, the audio may be muted by mixer line 0:0 You can include the mixer in your PicoBSD setup, if you're using PicoBSD. I am now able to play mpeg audio files and wav files via the speakers and headphones on my webplayer. In localhost.freebsd.multimedia, you wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Julian Elischer wrote: > >> what is a "boundless/virgin webplayer"? >> (got a link?) > > sure. > > http://www.ccimackay.com/~dgriffith/ > http://www.larwe.com/technical/webplayer_main.html > http://www.techdose.com/projects/Webplayer/ > http://www.i-hacked.com/iappliance/webplayer.htm > http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowBoard&Board=vwgeneral&Idle=&Sort=&Order=&Session= > > they have a Cyrix MediaGX processor (CS5530 is apparently the support > chip), 48 megs of disk on chip, DSTN 800x600 LCD, and a 44pin IDE header > (not just the pads, but a header), and sell on ebay and ubid for < US$100. > > The sound looks like a soundblaster 16 according to all of the linux > sites, and audio out works under linux, but no recording. > > the ALSA people have a PDF data sheet, but it's not real helpful: > > http://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/pub/linux/alsa/datasheets/nsc/ > > I'll try to send the dmesg output when i get a chance. it reports as a > soundblaster 16, and recording works OK, so i was thinking it was > something in the sbc driver's assumptions. -- bryan k ogawa http://www.unobvious.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 6:12:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 300A637B400 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 06:12:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grosbein.pp.ru (www2.svzserv.kemerovo.su [213.184.65.86]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C398643E31 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 06:12:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.pp.ru) Received: from grosbein.pp.ru (eugen@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grosbein.pp.ru (8.12.5/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g62DBsDr001334; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:11:54 +0800 (KRAST) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.pp.ru) Received: (from eugen@localhost) by grosbein.pp.ru (8.12.5/8.12.3/Submit) id g62DBrfK001333; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:11:53 +0800 (KRAST) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:11:53 +0800 From: Eugene Grosbein To: Manuel Kasper Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) Message-ID: <20020702211153.B1160@grosbein.pp.ru> References: <000201c22194$171e66e0$8c7da8c0@CNMKA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <000201c22194$171e66e0$8c7da8c0@CNMKA>; from mk@neon1.net on Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 08:45:39AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 08:45:39AM +0200, Manuel Kasper wrote: > I've just finished my guide on how to strip FreeBSD of "unnecessary" > things without going as minimalistic as e.g. PicoBSD. I wanted something > in between a FreeBSD "minimal" install (which still takes up about 80 > MB) and PicoBSD. If you're interested, it's available on > > http://neon1.net/misc/minibsd.html Great work! Btw, you can save some space of /bin and /sbin - commands residing here are built static by defaut. That's unnesessary and you can get shared binaries using echo 'NOSHARED=yes' >>/etc/make.conf and rebuilding. Eugene To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 6:39:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E3137B400 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 06:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spitfire.velocet.net (spitfire.velocet.net [216.138.223.227]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A72EC43E3B for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 06:39:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from steve@nomad.tor.lets.net) Received: from nomad.tor.lets.net (H74.C220.tor.velocet.net [216.138.220.74]) by spitfire.velocet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 29EF2FB4507 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 13:39:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 35145 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Jul 2002 13:34:53 -0000 Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:34:53 -0400 From: Steve Shorter To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Kernal malloc area tuning? Message-ID: <20020702093453.A35135@nomad.lets.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Howdy! I have a dedicated router/firewall running FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE-p6 and ipfilter 3.4.20. IPFilter has begun dropping connections because it can't allocate memory for more entries in the state/nat tables. I have traced the condition to an error from kern_malloc() (or one of its siblings) when it is not able to allocate the memory required. Top shows that there is lots of free memory. The documentation in LINT suggest modifying these parameters .. options VM_KMEM_SIZE="(10*1024*1024)" options VM_KMEM_SIZE_MAX="(100*1024*1024)" options VM_KMEM_SIZE_SCALE="4" I tried various strategies including setting options VM_KMEM_SIZE_SCALE="2" which *should* double the malloc area (according to LINT), but could not get more memory allocated for the state tables. How can I tune the kernel malloc area so that I can take advantage of the "free RAM". It has 128M, but 80M is still "free" thanx - steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 6:49:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654BC37B400 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 06:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gehicks.dyndns.org (adsl-20-181-84.asm.bellsouth.net [66.20.181.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCDC643E2F for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 06:49:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org) Received: from mac (mac [10.0.0.13]) by gehicks.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g62DupZZ005231; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 13:56:51 GMT (envelope-from gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:49:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Cc: To: "Manuel Kasper" From: W Gerald Hicks In-Reply-To: <000201c22194$171e66e0$8c7da8c0@CNMKA> Message-Id: <86134BD7-8DC2-11D6-BBF1-0030657B5F1E@gehicks.dyndns.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Very cool stuff! One thing I do here that is helpful... I've shot myself in the foot more than once playing around with PicoBSD. The builds spam your src/ directories with .o files and as one is hacking around it's easy to forget about patched src when building for your local system. For a blunderbuss approach it is easy enough to do *BSD hacking in a chroot environment. Although it takes a fair amount of space the artifacts leftover from a 'make release' are ideal for this purpose. Just do a make release into, for example, /usr/local/release and chroot into that directory using /bin/sh as the program to execute. Then you can hack and modify to your heart's content without affecting the root installation. I suppose a 'live filesystem' image would work for this purpose too. Thanks for an excellent contribution. Cheers, Jerry Hicks gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org On Tuesday, July 2, 2002, at 02:45 AM, Manuel Kasper wrote: > Hi all, > > I've just finished my guide on how to strip FreeBSD of "unnecessary" > things without going as minimalistic as e.g. PicoBSD. I wanted something > in between a FreeBSD "minimal" install (which still takes up about 80 > MB) and PicoBSD. If you're interested, it's available on > > http://neon1.net/misc/minibsd.html > > I now have FreeBSD 4.6 running on my net4501 embedded PC from Soekris > Engineering (on which the guide is based); the operating system takes up > about 31 MB on the 64 MB CF card (including frills like perl, thttpd, > dhcpd, ...); without perl it works out to about 21 MB - so there's ample > space left for user data. I've tried not to sacrifice any important > funcionality, and so you can ssh/ftp in like on a normal FreeBSD system, > and most commands are available. > > I welcome any suggestions/feedback on how this guide could be improved. > > Greets, > > Manuel > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 7:12: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E098C37B400 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 07:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ddba033.netstream.ch (ddba033.netstream.ch [62.65.128.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3575343E0A for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 07:12:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mk@neon1.net) Received: from wg.mtfsg.ch ([80.238.135.122] helo=CNMKA) by ddba033.netstream.ch with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17PONq-000FhX-00 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2002 16:11:58 +0200 From: "Manuel Kasper" To: Subject: RE: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 16:11:02 +0200 Message-ID: <000201c221d2$4c50d5d0$8c7da8c0@CNMKA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <86134BD7-8DC2-11D6-BBF1-0030657B5F1E@gehicks.dyndns.org> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey Jerry, > Very cool stuff! Thanks! I'll try your chroot method as soon as I get the time (so I will know what I'm talking about before I add it as an optional step to the guide ;). I did not yet bother to do anything like that because so far I have done all the hacking on my "miniBSD" on a separate hard disk. You mean I just make release PREFIX=3D/usr/local/release in my /usr/src and get a full installation in there? What do you think, would it also be possible to use the FreeBSD installation CD-ROM to do an installation in that subdirectory (by setting "Install Root" in sysinstall)? That would save the time of make world'ing... Greets, Manuel --=20 Sorry for sending this to the list and not directly to Jerry - Jerry, I think your mail server does not like me: gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org SMTP error from remote mailer after MAIL FROM:: host gehicks.dyndns.org [66.20.181.84]: 550 5.0.0 Access denied To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 7:33:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5931937B405 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 07:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from firewall.andxor.com (firewall.andxor.it [195.223.2.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8486543E0A for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 07:33:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tho@tho.andxor.com) Received: from tho.andxor.com (tho.andxor.it [195.223.2.222]) by firewall.andxor.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g62DxbHo003381; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:59:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from tho@tho.andxor.com) Received: (from tho@localhost) by tho.andxor.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g62FL6Q03558; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:21:06 GMT (envelope-from tho) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:21:06 +0000 From: tho To: Manuel Kasper Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) Message-ID: <20020702152106.A3438@tho.andxor.com> References: <000201c22194$171e66e0$8c7da8c0@CNMKA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <000201c22194$171e66e0$8c7da8c0@CNMKA>; from mk@neon1.net on Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 08:45:39AM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Manuel, thank you very much for your good work :-) > I welcome any suggestions/feedback on how this guide could be improved. the only thing I would suggest is to automate the selection of the libraries by running ldd (1) through all the ELF executables. ciao, tho -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 7:47:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0626F37B400 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 07:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gehicks.dyndns.org (adsl-20-181-84.asm.bellsouth.net [66.20.181.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4150F43E39 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 07:47:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org) Received: from mac (mac [10.0.0.13]) by gehicks.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g62EsiZZ005523; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 14:54:44 GMT (envelope-from gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 10:47:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org To: "Manuel Kasper" From: W Gerald Hicks In-Reply-To: <000201c221d2$4c50d5d0$8c7da8c0@CNMKA> Message-Id: <9C7B3796-8DCA-11D6-BBF1-0030657B5F1E@gehicks.dyndns.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, July 2, 2002, at 10:11 AM, Manuel Kasper wrote: > Hey Jerry, > >> Very cool stuff! > > Thanks! I'll try your chroot method as soon as I get the time (so I will > know what I'm talking about before I add it as an optional step to the > guide ;). I did not yet bother to do anything like that because so far I > have done all the hacking on my "miniBSD" on a separate hard disk. I've got a work in progress here (-current based) that completely rethinks the way a small BSD is built and moves the whole build process out of src/. It patches config(8) in its local tree to provide a CONFDIR variable for the kernel Makefile allowing us to replace any of the kernel build policies implemented by kern.pre.mk, kern.post.mk, et al. Also, a change to md(4) gets rid of the fixed-size character array hardcoded into the kernel for an MD_ROOT image and allocates only as much space as the filesystem actually requires. PR kern/40017 and kern/40021 were the first versions of those patches; I've done a few fixes and tweaks since they were posted for comments a couple of days ago. To make everything convenient, incremental linking of kernel+filesystem is provided by a Makefile-driven build process. If you like I can give you a preliminary snap. It'll be ready for public consumption as soon as I document it a bit (and incorporate your MiniBSD setup :-). > You mean I just > make release PREFIX=/usr/local/release > in my /usr/src and get a full installation in there? What do you think, > would it also be possible to use the FreeBSD installation CD-ROM to do > an installation in that subdirectory (by setting "Install Root" in > sysinstall)? That would save the time of make world'ing... The Makefile in /usr/src/release spells out the details of how to do it from scratch. Hm! I've never used that nifty "Install Root" option.. Thanks! (I build releases daily here on a cron job so I've always got one ready to go). The Makefile I'm using alternatively allows the tactic of creating and using a symlinked src/ directory to achieve much of the same effect without the space requirements of a chroot system image. Patches applied to a symlink tree do not effect the "real" files behind the links. Check out the symlink-tree script in src/*/binutils for a gadget to help with creating such a tree. Cheers, Jerry Hicks > > Sorry for sending this to the list and not directly to Jerry - > Jerry, I think your mail server does not like me: > > gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org > SMTP error from remote mailer after MAIL FROM:: > host gehicks.dyndns.org [66.20.181.84]: 550 5.0.0 Access denied It's a dodgy replacement for my real system which finally died last week. Guess I need to fiddle with the new setup a bit maybe :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 9: 6:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0EF037B400 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ddba033.netstream.ch (ddba033.netstream.ch [62.65.128.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 021C743E09 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:06:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mk@neon1.net) Received: from gw.adsl.ddn-ddn-132-076.netstream.ch ([80.238.132.76] helo=CNMKA) by ddba033.netstream.ch with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17PQAf-000GtZ-00 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2002 18:06:29 +0200 From: "Manuel Kasper" To: Subject: RE: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 18:06:27 +0200 Message-ID: <000001c221e2$6c4175b0$5b00a8c0@CNMKA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <9C7B3796-8DCA-11D6-BBF1-0030657B5F1E@gehicks.dyndns.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ... > If you like I can give you a preliminary snap. It'll be=20 > ready for public > consumption as soon as I document it a bit (and incorporate=20 > your MiniBSD > setup :-). Hey, this sounds very nice; I have not yet dared to try anything from -CURRENT yet, however. Guess I'll have to get into that stuff first... ;) > The Makefile in /usr/src/release spells out the details of=3D20 > how to do it=3D20 > from > scratch. Ooops, should have RTFM, sorry... ;) > Hm! I've never used that nifty "Install Root"=3D20 > option.. Thanks! I think to keep things simple I will just try the method of doing another FreeBSD installation (using the CD-ROM) in a subdirectory and using chroot with it. I'll add that to the guide as soon as I know that it works. Greets, Manuel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 15:24:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D9E237B422 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wotsit.thingy.com (wotsit.thingy.com [212.21.100.67]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AF3C743E0A for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:24:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howie@thingy.com) Received: (qmail 8190 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2002 22:24:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jubjub) (212.19.79.186) by wotsit.thingy.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2002 22:24:10 -0000 Message-ID: <002601c22217$79482a80$fa37a8c0@jubjub> From: "Howard Jones" To: "Manuel Kasper" Cc: References: <000201c22194$171e66e0$8c7da8c0@CNMKA> Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 23:25:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I did more or less the same, although with more trial and error (I started with just a kernel and init, and added files until I got a login: prompt :) ) - my current flash-booting desktop workstation has Zebra, DHCP client support, SNMP, X, an mp3 player, NFS to mount other drives from the fileserver, thttpd, telnet and an assortment of utilities (ipfw, vi, grep etc), all in about 12Mb of a 32Mb flash device. It's a mixed bag because I was aiming towards two goals at once - I have a second one of these running the firewall/NAT for my wireless DSL connection.. The intention was to have full routing/firewall/shaping stuff through dummynet, and some sort of web interface using thttpd - I didn't get that part done, although the kernel stuff for it is all in, and SNMP for stats works fine. It could probably be smaller if I switched to using all shared libraries - I have some stuff in a big crunched binary, and other things added later have shared libraries (the same libraries as the static stuff, even). As someone else pointed out ldd is your friend for picking out binaries to ignore when reducing your system size - some of the small /usr/bin utilities are linked with a surprising number of big libraries. The hardware side is an ASUS TUSI-M board with a fanless C3/866 processor, although it's likely to change to an Eden processor and mini-iTX sometime soon (no fans at all, not even the PSU!). Anyway, it's good to see a little more info on the web about how to do this. I still don't really understand what the difference is between this and picobsd - is it just the ramdisk vs normal fs, or is there some other dividing line? Regards, Howie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Manuel Kasper" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 7:45 AM Subject: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) Hi all, I've just finished my guide on how to strip FreeBSD of "unnecessary" things without going as minimalistic as e.g. PicoBSD. I wanted something in between a FreeBSD "minimal" install (which still takes up about 80 MB) and PicoBSD. If you're interested, it's available on http://neon1.net/misc/minibsd.html I now have FreeBSD 4.6 running on my net4501 embedded PC from Soekris Engineering (on which the guide is based); the operating system takes up about 31 MB on the 64 MB CF card (including frills like perl, thttpd, dhcpd, ...); without perl it works out to about 21 MB - so there's ample space left for user data. I've tried not to sacrifice any important funcionality, and so you can ssh/ftp in like on a normal FreeBSD system, and most commands are available. I welcome any suggestions/feedback on how this guide could be improved. Greets, Manuel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 15:36:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A9637B408 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web20804.mail.yahoo.com (web20804.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.193]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D65843E31 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:36:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from badpacket94501@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20020702223646.23727.qmail@web20804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.12.78.1] by web20804.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Jul 2002 15:36:46 PDT Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:36:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Snore Subject: Re: OT To: Howard Jones , Manuel Kasper Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <002601c22217$79482a80$fa37a8c0@jubjub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Sorry, Offtipic reply here. For more info on SFF's like Eden which makes nice little 800 Mhz boards etc, this is a great forum: http://forums.viahardware.com/categories.cfm?catid=33 Note, the Eden comes with ESP5000 (very low power 500 Mhz fanless cpu) and and the C3-800 ( Via/Cyrix 800 Mhz fanned cpu, which can safely have the fan removed). The cpu can on the 800 can be removed,according to Via techs. And, the Cupid case referred to uses an exertnal power brick that is DC-DC, and the DC power runs into the case to an ATX breakout board. The only sound you'll hear is the drive, unless you boot from CF. For CF, check the guys at Mesanet.com They've got a couple of great CF adapters, for $18-25 which handle CFI/II, and the model these guys sell actually have a push button eject. Nice. Sorry for the off topic post, but this seems to be a convergent interest on this ML. > > The hardware side is an ASUS TUSI-M board with a > fanless C3/866 processor, > although it's likely to change to an Eden processor > and mini-iTX sometime > soon (no fans at all, not even the PSU!). > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 21:10:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D06CE37B400 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spork.pantherdragon.org (spork.pantherdragon.org [206.29.168.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1995F43E09 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:10:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmp@pantherdragon.org) Received: from spark.techno.pagans (spark.techno.pagans [4.61.202.145]) by spork.pantherdragon.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6597471DA; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pantherdragon.org (speck.techno.pagans [172.21.42.2]) by spark.techno.pagans (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D4B5FFD6; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3D22792E.C88EBD20@pantherdragon.org> Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 21:10:22 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eugene Grosbein Cc: Manuel Kasper , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) References: <000201c22194$171e66e0$8c7da8c0@CNMKA> <20020702211153.B1160@grosbein.pp.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 02, 2002 at 08:45:39AM +0200, Manuel Kasper wrote: > > > I've just finished my guide on how to strip FreeBSD of "unnecessary" > > things without going as minimalistic as e.g. PicoBSD. I wanted something > > in between a FreeBSD "minimal" install (which still takes up about 80 > > MB) and PicoBSD. If you're interested, it's available on > > > > http://neon1.net/misc/minibsd.html > > Great work! > > Btw, you can save some space of /bin and /sbin - commands residing here > are built static by defaut. That's unnesessary and you can get > shared binaries using echo 'NOSHARED=yes' >>/etc/make.conf and rebuilding. As long as you realize that if a /bin or /sbin program can't run due to missing/corrupt libraries that you may or may not be able to even boot single-user. At the very least, /bin/sh, /sbin/mount, /sbin/init, and /sbin/fsck should be static builds. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 22: 7: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3848137B400 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gehicks.dyndns.org (adsl-20-181-84.asm.bellsouth.net [66.20.181.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E25B43E31 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:06:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org) Received: from mac (mac [10.0.0.13]) by gehicks.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g635EJZZ011251 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 05:14:20 GMT (envelope-from gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 01:06:56 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) From: W Gerald Hicks To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 12:10 AM, Darren Pilgrim wrote: [snips] > As long as you realize that if a /bin or /sbin program can't run due > to missing/corrupt libraries that you may or may not be able to even > boot single-user. At the very least, /bin/sh, /sbin/mount, /sbin/init, > and /sbin/fsck should be static builds. Libraries residing in a linked-in MD_ROOT_IMAGE are available whenever the kernel is but it still seems more space efficient for a small handful of boot-critical programs to be crunch-linked. Cheers, Jerry Hicks gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Jul 2 23:54:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4111537B400 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 23:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spork.pantherdragon.org (spork.pantherdragon.org [206.29.168.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D67D143E0A for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 23:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmp@pantherdragon.org) Received: from spark.techno.pagans (spark.techno.pagans [4.61.202.145]) by spork.pantherdragon.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A43471DA; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 23:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pantherdragon.org (speck.techno.pagans [172.21.42.2]) by spark.techno.pagans (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE439FDA0; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 23:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3D229963.EF2B40B3@pantherdragon.org> Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 23:27:47 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: W Gerald Hicks Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) References: <38E3A09A-8E42-11D6-BBF1-0030657B5F1E@bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 12:10 AM, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > [snips] > > As long as you realize that if a /bin or /sbin program can't run due > > to missing/corrupt libraries that you may or may not be able to even > > boot single-user. At the very least, /bin/sh, /sbin/mount, /sbin/init, > > and /sbin/fsck should be static builds. > > > > Libraries residing in a linked-in MD_ROOT_IMAGE are available whenever > the kernel is > but it still seems more space efficient for that small handful of > critical files to be crunch-linked. Those libraries can still get corrupted. Using dynamic binaries adds a point of failure. It's not much more space taken for just those few programs, so why increase the risk? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jul 3 11:23:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50CFD37B400 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:23:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ddba033.netstream.ch (ddba033.netstream.ch [62.65.128.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C90943E31 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:23:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mk@neon1.net) Received: from gw.adsl.ddn-ddn-132-076.netstream.ch ([80.238.132.76] helo=CNMKA) by ddba033.netstream.ch with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17Pomw-0003YX-00; Wed, 03 Jul 2002 20:23:38 +0200 From: "Manuel Kasper" To: Cc: "'Howard Jones'" Subject: RE: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 20:23:30 +0200 Message-ID: <000201c222be$bb946370$5b00a8c0@CNMKA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <002601c22217$79482a80$fa37a8c0@jubjub> Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anyway, it's good to see a little more info on the web about=20 > how to do this. > I still don't really understand what the difference is=20 > between this and > picobsd - is it just the ramdisk vs normal fs, or is there some other > dividing line? Well, as I said - PicoBSD was too minimalistic for me (after all it was designed to fit on a single floppy disk...). I wanted an almost fully usable system with only the things stripped that I'm sure I would never need - and without using any stuff like crunchgen. I mean, at the price 64 MB CF cards have today compared to the price of an SBC like the net4501, it does not make sense to cram FreeBSD in 2 MBs when you have 60 MB left, only to find every now and then that just the tool you need at the moment is not on your SBC. YMMV... I've got the following things on my todo (to-try :) list: - see what difference (space-wise) the dynamic linking of binaries in /bin and /sbin makes (suggested by Eugene Grosbein). If it doesn't make a big difference, I won't bother. If it does (I suspect that ;), I'll integrate it as an optional step in my guide, along with the due warnings that in case of emergency it might make things more difficult (as Darren pointed out). - try a method suggested by Jerry Hicks to do all the hacking on miniBSD in a chroot jail as not to mess with the base system. - write a perl script that uses ldd to extract a list of libraries from all the binaries installed in your miniBSD directory, so only those libraries which are necessary have to be copied (I've received an example as a shell script already from tho, thanks!) - directory trees could be made using make ... distrib-dirs / make ... distribution (suggested by Samuel) - mount -u -o ro / is probably dangerous (I'll do some research on this and add a warning to the guide) I hope I'll find some time this weekend to try these things and revise my guide. Thanks to all who have contributed their ideas, I really appreciate it! Manuel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jul 3 11:45:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A0EA37B400 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jupiter.linuxengine.net (jupiter.linuxengine.net [209.61.188.254]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2E843E09 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:45:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@utzweb.net) Received: from jupiterweb.commercevault.com (jupiterweb.commercevault.com [209.61.179.16] (may be forged)) by jupiter.linuxengine.net (8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g63IjGR05696; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:45:16 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:45:16 -0500 (CDT) From: John Utz X-X-Sender: john@jupiter.linuxengine.net To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: W Gerald Hicks , Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) In-Reply-To: <3D229963.EF2B40B3@pantherdragon.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 12:10 AM, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > [snips] > > > As long as you realize that if a /bin or /sbin program can't run due > > > to missing/corrupt libraries that you may or may not be able to even > > > boot single-user. At the very least, /bin/sh, /sbin/mount, /sbin/init, > > > and /sbin/fsck should be static builds. > > > > > > > Libraries residing in a linked-in MD_ROOT_IMAGE are available whenever > > the kernel is > > but it still seems more space efficient for that small handful of > > critical files to be crunch-linked. > > Those libraries can still get corrupted. Using dynamic binaries adds > a point of failure. It's not much more space taken for just those few > programs, so why increase the risk? ahh, because this is where we cross into the land of the manufactuing world :-) when you are designing a commodity product, cost reduction is key. if you have a choice of shrinking the OS and getting it onto a cheaper part, you will. If i have a us$1.00 memory device that will contain the image iff i link dynamically, and i have a us$1.05 part that is twice as big that will allow me to use the safer statically linked bits, then i will have a long and hard discussion about this during the design review. If i can come up with a rational, value adding, *marketable* use for all my new empty space, i might be able to win the argument. If the part only costs us$0.01 more, instead of us$0.05 more, than i can probably get the part blessed with no argument and somebody else will own the job of figuring out how to use that extra space in a future product improvement. If the part costs us$0.25 more, i wont even waste my breath. :-) Tho i will include a paragraph about the issue in my design doc. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > -- John L. Utz III john@utzweb.net Idiocy is the Impulse Function in the Convolution of Life To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jul 3 12: 0:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D7C737B405 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.boxitllc.com (mail2.boxitllc.com [209.209.45.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0087B43E09 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:00:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from helmut@zeebar.com) Received: (qmail 16298 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2002 12:07:14 -0700 Received: from h24-65-174-160.gv.shawcable.net (HELO BOBO) (helmut@zeebar.com@[24.65.174.160]) (envelope-sender ) by 0 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP for ; 3 Jul 2002 12:07:14 -0700 Message-ID: <001401c222c3$8fc05970$6601a8c0@BOBO> From: "Helmut Hissen" To: References: <38E3A09A-8E42-11D6-BBF1-0030657B5F1E@bellsouth.net> <3D229963.EF2B40B3@pantherdragon.org> Subject: more on reducing FreeBSD Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:58:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG its nice to have dynamic libs in case you want to upload executables to your system. if not, all-static and crunching is probably the way to go soz its smaller and faster (at load/run time, too) and simpler and for the most part -like Gerald said- harder to break). I have also been working on putting together a small distribution. Seems like I am not the only one. Good to know that and kind of a bummer at the same time. Started out putting together a special purpose DOF x86 firewall and then I started looking at why I was installing 100's of MB and I was appalled by what I found when I did the math. TALK ABOUT BLOATWARE! I though FreeBSD was all lean and mean, but I gotta say we put some commercial bloatware products to shame. Its almost like we are trying to fill some imaginary cardboard product box. I also started out with PicoBSD, but nothing there ever seems to work (or at least not as expected) so I figured if I have to understand the code, I might as well do it myself. Now I have a ~4MB rootmfs kernel with everything I need (ssh2, dhclient, ipf, shell utils, tcsh, vi etc) and I set up a framework which now allows me to build kernels+mfs containing arbitrary subsets of that functionality ... and nothing else. Surprisingly little patching was required in /usr/src, but there was some pretty sad looking stuff in openssh for instance which needed patching (as some of you have found out :-). The real fun starts with the miscellaneous stuff, like the rc.* and those little /etc/*{tab,.conf} files you never even know you had or needed. Many of those are highly subset-specific. Ideally, I would like to see some subset-aware "unified unix configuration" thingy to address all that. I know there are some efforts in that area, but they all seem to be either in dream-land or vendor-proprietary. and whats up with IP6? some of the code assumes it to be there and some Makefiles turn it on whether or not you ask for it, whether or not its necessary, wanted, or desirable. from where I am standing, to me its as important what IS NOT in a software system as what IS. anyhow - will post results when I get closer. Helmut Hissen Zeebar Technology Services, Inc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Pilgrim" To: "W Gerald Hicks" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 11:27 PM Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) > W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 12:10 AM, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > [snips] > > > As long as you realize that if a /bin or /sbin program can't run due > > > to missing/corrupt libraries that you may or may not be able to even > > > boot single-user. At the very least, /bin/sh, /sbin/mount, /sbin/init, > > > and /sbin/fsck should be static builds. > > > > > > > Libraries residing in a linked-in MD_ROOT_IMAGE are available whenever > > the kernel is > > but it still seems more space efficient for that small handful of > > critical files to be crunch-linked. > > Those libraries can still get corrupted. Using dynamic binaries adds > a point of failure. It's not much more space taken for just those few > programs, so why increase the risk? > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jul 3 13:20:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D096337B400 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A9243E52 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (#6@localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g63JoD0L035976; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 15:50:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <200207031950.g63JoD0L035976@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: "Manuel Kasper" Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, "'Howard Jones'" X-Image-URL: http://www.transsys.com/louie/images/louie-mail.jpg From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) References: <000201c222be$bb946370$5b00a8c0@CNMKA> In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Jul 2002 20:23:30 +0200." <000201c222be$bb946370$5b00a8c0@CNMKA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 15:50:13 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Also, don't forget that you can gzip the kernel if you're using /boot/loader during the boostrap process. This gains back a noticable amount of space "for free." I also build all the binaries to be dynamically linked; this is a big space savings as well. My original target was an 8MB compact flash disk, and this was the trick to getting it to fit. I was less worried about things getting corrupted as the system runs with the root filesystem mounted read-only. The current setup that I use is a 32MB compact flash card, with two slices. I alternate between them so I can always easily revert to the previous version if something bad happens when doing an upgrade. louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jul 3 13:37:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C52D37B400 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ddba033.netstream.ch (ddba033.netstream.ch [62.65.128.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DCD43E3B for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:37:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mk@neon1.net) Received: from gw.adsl.ddn-ddn-132-076.netstream.ch ([80.238.132.76] helo=CNMKA) by ddba033.netstream.ch with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17PqsO-0004nz-00; Wed, 03 Jul 2002 22:37:25 +0200 From: "Manuel Kasper" To: Cc: Subject: RE: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:37:16 +0200 Message-ID: <000801c222d1$6bcea810$5b00a8c0@CNMKA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <200207031950.g63JoD0L035976@whizzo.transsys.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey Louie, > Also, don't forget that you can gzip the kernel if you're using > /boot/loader during the boostrap process. This gains back a=20 > noticable amount of space "for free." That part is already in the guide. :) > The current setup that I use is a 32MB compact flash card, with > two slices. I alternate between them so I can always easily revert > to the previous version if something bad happens when doing an > upgrade. Hmm, that's another good idea - how to you choose which slice to boot? By intervening manually and telling the bootstrap loader which slice to boot? Greets, Manuel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jul 3 15:50:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468E537B400 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 15:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.die.supsi.ch (mail.die.supsi.ch [193.5.153.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B9B43E42 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 15:50:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nunnari@mail.die.supsi.ch) Received: (from apache@localhost) by mail.die.supsi.ch (8.11.0/8.11.0) id g63MnC819812; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 00:49:12 +0200 From: Roberto Nunnari X-Authentication-Warning: mail.die.supsi.ch: apache set sender to nunnari@mail.die.supsi.ch using -f To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" Subject: Re: How can I use "root" as a telnet account? Message-ID: <1025736552.3d237f68b4544@mail.die.supsi.ch> Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:49:12 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Roberto Nunnari , Ken Ryan , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020629084808.X14587-100000@neon.clari.net.au> In-Reply-To: <20020629084808.X14587-100000@neon.clari.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I believe that .rhosts is used for rsh secure on ttys is for single mode console login. regards Scrive Daniel O'Callaghan : > > > On Fri, 28 Jun 2002, Roberto Nunnari wrote: > > > add the host you're connecting from to /etc/hosts.equiv > > > > Ken Ryan wrote: > > > > > Hello, Everyone: > > > How can I use "root" as a telnet account? > > > It is disabled by default. > > > Thank you. > > I think you'll find that hosts.equiv does not give root access. > Only root's own .rhosts will do that. But the answer you are looking > for > is to add the word 'secure' to the end of the entry in /etc/ttys for > ttyp0 etc. > > Danny > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jul 3 16:45:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C66337B400 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gehicks.dyndns.org (adsl-20-181-84.asm.bellsouth.net [66.20.181.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109F343E3B for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:43:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org) Received: from mac (mac [10.0.0.13]) by gehicks.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g63NnHZZ001049; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:49:33 GMT (envelope-from gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:41:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org To: Darren Pilgrim From: W Gerald Hicks In-Reply-To: <3D229963.EF2B40B3@pantherdragon.org> Message-Id: <752D613B-8EDE-11D6-AA48-0030657B5F1E@gehicks.dyndns.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 02:27 AM, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > W Gerald Hicks wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 12:10 AM, Darren Pilgrim wrote: >> [snips] >>> As long as you realize that if a /bin or /sbin program can't run due >>> to missing/corrupt libraries that you may or may not be able to even >>> boot single-user. At the very least, /bin/sh, /sbin/mount, >>> /sbin/init, >>> and /sbin/fsck should be static builds. >>> >> >> Libraries residing in a linked-in MD_ROOT_IMAGE are available whenever >> the kernel is >> but it still seems more space efficient for that small handful of >> critical files to be crunch-linked. > > Those libraries can still get corrupted. Using dynamic binaries adds > a point of failure. It's not much more space taken for just those few > programs, so why increase the risk? It's no more risk than having a corrupted kernel image. At some point your eggs are all in one basket anyway :-) Cheers, Jerry Hicks gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jul 3 18:16:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF1337B400 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 18:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BA043E09 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 18:16:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (#6@localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g641GZ0L040450; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:16:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.transsys.com) Message-Id: <200207040116.g641GZ0L040450@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: "Manuel Kasper" Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Image-URL: http://www.transsys.com/louie/images/louie-mail.jpg From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Guide to reducing FreeBSD (a.k.a miniBSD :) References: <000801c222d1$6bcea810$5b00a8c0@CNMKA> In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Jul 2002 22:37:16 +0200." <000801c222d1$6bcea810$5b00a8c0@CNMKA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 21:16:35 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The current setup that I use is a 32MB compact flash card, with > > two slices. I alternate between them so I can always easily revert > > to the previous version if something bad happens when doing an > > upgrade. > > Hmm, that's another good idea - how to you choose which slice to boot? > By intervening manually and telling the bootstrap loader which slice to > boot? I Just used the normal freebsd boot0 boot block. It's set to default to one slice or another and part of the install process is to change the default. The much more interesting problem is having the slice that just booted figure out which slice it's on, and then cobble up an /etc/fstab that makes sense. I tried to avoid having the generation process of a new image have to know what slice it was going to be installed on. louie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jul 3 21:21:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E42B137B400 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neon.clari.net.au (neon.clari.net.au [203.8.14.112]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1B843E09 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:21:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danny@clari.net.au) Received: from localhost (danny@localhost) by neon.clari.net.au (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g644Sip27374; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:28:45 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from danny@clari.net.au) X-Authentication-Warning: neon.clari.net.au: danny owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:28:44 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Roberto Nunnari Cc: Ken Ryan , Subject: Re: How can I use "root" as a telnet account? In-Reply-To: <1025736552.3d237f68b4544@mail.die.supsi.ch> Message-ID: <20020704142548.Q27367-100000@neon.clari.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 4 Jul 2002, Roberto Nunnari wrote: > I believe that .rhosts is used for rsh > secure on ttys is for single mode console login. > regards You can make network terminals secure as well as console and dialup terminals by adding 'secure' to the appropriate line in ttys. hosts.equiv provides rsh passwordless login for all users EXCEPT root. Yes, .rhosts is used for rsh and works for all users including root. Cheers Danny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jul 3 21:51:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3748837B400 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.samuelstn.dhs.org (h24-64-81-248.cg.shawcable.net [24.64.81.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A35A443E09 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:51:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyschow@shaw.ca) Received: (qmail 37864 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2002 04:44:43 -0000 Received: from intelex (192.168.1.5) by homeserver with SMTP; 4 Jul 2002 04:44:43 -0000 Message-ID: <002101c22315$83d03160$0501a8c0@intelex> From: "Samuel Chow" To: Subject: Perhaps a new "distribution"? Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:44:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi there, I can see there are a lot of interest and expertise in stripping FreeBSD down for a smaller storage footprint. Perhaps it is a good idea to setup another "distribution" to capture all these information for other less experienced users? It could be modelled like picobsd, but with less constrain and with more "normal" FreeBSD feel. Just an idea. What do you guys think? --- Samuel Chow cyschow@shaw.ca Segmentation Fault (core dumped) This message is displayed using recycled electrons. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jul 3 22:34:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D00237B400 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gehicks.dyndns.org (adsl-20-181-84.asm.bellsouth.net [66.20.181.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 852AC43E09 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:34:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org) Received: from mac (mac [10.0.0.13]) by gehicks.dyndns.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g645fVZZ003265; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 05:41:31 GMT (envelope-from gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:34:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Perhaps a new "distribution"? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org To: "Samuel Chow" From: W Gerald Hicks In-Reply-To: <002101c22315$83d03160$0501a8c0@intelex> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, July 4, 2002, at 12:44 AM, Samuel Chow wrote: > Hi there, > > I can see there are a lot of interest and expertise > in stripping FreeBSD down for a smaller storage > footprint. Perhaps it is a good idea to setup another > "distribution" to capture all these information for > other less experienced users? It could be modelled > like picobsd, but with less constrain and with more > "normal" FreeBSD feel. > > Just an idea. What do you guys think? > I dunno about a whole "distribution" :-) Most of what I've been interested in doing is to get the kernel (and other userland bits too) buildable from outside of the src/ hierarchy. I have a working (undocumented and unsupported alpha) protoype: ftp://gehicks.dyndns.org/pub/MiniBSD/MiniBSD-0.3.tar.gz Manuel and I had picked the same name independently; I plan to incorporate his work into what I've done and then leave it to him for a decision on where to go with it. I think a set of master/slave ports to build deviant versions of FreeBSD might have a chance of becoming a cohesive force instead of fracturing into thirty-odd unmaintained Small, Itsy, Teeny, Short, ScrawnyBSD variants. :-) Since we have the ports category 'picobsd' already it's my vote that such "distributions" be packaged as ports in the picobsd directory. To make this really happen we need to enroll an interested (and involved) ports committer to help us work out a good schema for extending the ports framework for this purpose. Cheers, Jerry Hicks gehicks@gehicks.dyndns.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jul 4 5: 3:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06E0337B400 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 05:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.ugr.es (mail1.ugr.es [150.214.20.24]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C9543E09 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 05:03:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ama@ugr.es) Received: from mail1.ugr.es (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.ugr.es (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20424 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:03:30 +0200 (MEST) Received: from goliat.ugr.es (goliat.ugr.es [150.214.20.3]) by mail1.ugr.es (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20418 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:03:28 +0200 (MEST) Received: from bioinfo2.ugr.es (ama@bioinfo2.ugr.es [150.214.61.51]) by goliat.ugr.es (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA01356 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:03:28 +0200 (MEST) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:03:29 +0000 (GMT) From: Angel Martin Alganza To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Perhaps a new "distribution"? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello! Samuel Chow "" says: > I can see there are a lot of interest and expertise > in stripping FreeBSD down for a smaller storage > footprint. Perhaps it is a good idea to setup another > "distribution" to capture all these information for > other less experienced users? It could be modelled > like picobsd, but with less constrain and with more > "normal" FreeBSD feel. I think that would be simply excelent. I very much like PicoBSD, which works great as a single floppy distro, but I also have a couple of systems (notebooks) which have limited resources (300MB HD, 12MB RAM) which I would love to be able to use BSD on. I need a bit of user data space, so I think a striped down distro (small enough to fit on, let say, 50-100MB) but with full funcionality would be great for me. At the moment I am using muLinux (a small Linux distro) on them, but it uses very old binaries and libraries and is not a real "ful" distro (since it aims to be both a single floppy and a HD distro at the same time)... I'd be happy to see such thing on the BSD world. Regards, Angel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jul 5 9:47:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D90437B400 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ddba033.netstream.ch (ddba033.netstream.ch [62.65.128.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA3443E31 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:47:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mk@neon1.net) Received: from gw.adsl.ddn-ddn-132-076.netstream.ch ([80.238.132.76] helo=CNMKA) by ddba033.netstream.ch with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17QWEg-0000Sm-00 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:47:11 +0200 From: "Manuel Kasper" To: Subject: RE: Perhaps a new "distribution"? Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 18:46:54 +0200 Message-ID: <001a01c22443$91de50f0$5b00a8c0@CNMKA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > would love to be able to use BSD on. I need a bit of user=20 > data space, so I > think a striped down distro (small enough to fit on, let say, > 50-100MB) but with full funcionality would be great for me. Well the only thing I would wish for at the moment is one or two additional distribution choices in the FreeBSD installer. "Minimal" takes up about 80 MB at the moment, but includes things you may not need on a truly minimal system (like e.g. compilers). It would be cool if a more detailed choice could be made during installation, say up to a granularity where you can decide whether or not you want Perl, or gcc, or sendmail, etc. That would render my guide almost obsolete, however. ;) Greets, Manuel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jul 5 13:17:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6422D37B400 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 13:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.samuelstn.dhs.org (h24-64-81-248.cg.shawcable.net [24.64.81.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F38243E09 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 13:17:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyschow@shaw.ca) Received: (qmail 44440 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2002 20:17:16 -0000 Received: from firewall (HELO SAMCHOW1.ca.nortel.com) (192.168.1.1) by homeserver with SMTP; 5 Jul 2002 20:17:16 -0000 Message-ID: <000801c22460$f2dfaa80$2784412f@ca.nortel.com> From: "Samuel Chow" To: "Helmut Hissen" Cc: References: <38E3A09A-8E42-11D6-BBF1-0030657B5F1E@bellsouth.net> <3D229963.EF2B40B3@pantherdragon.org> <001401c222c3$8fc05970$6601a8c0@BOBO> Subject: Re: more on reducing FreeBSD Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 14:17:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Surprisingly little patching was required in /usr/src, but > there was some pretty sad looking stuff in openssh for instance > which needed patching (as some of you have found out :-). Are you talking about getting sshd to not do PAM? I notice sshd and telnetd seems to ignore the define NO_PAM (or NOPAM, can't remember). > The real fun starts with the miscellaneous stuff, like the > rc.* and those little /etc/*{tab,.conf} files you never even > know you had or needed. Many of those are highly subset-specific. I agree. It is annoying that I don't compile, for example, named, but I have /etc/namedb/*. I know I can remove them manually, but it would be nice if these stuff are only installed with make install. --- Samuel Chow cyschow@shaw.ca This message is displayed using recycled electrons. Segmentation Fault (core dumped) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jul 5 13:24:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B97937B400 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 13:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.samuelstn.dhs.org (h24-64-81-248.cg.shawcable.net [24.64.81.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E12543E31 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 13:24:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyschow@shaw.ca) Received: (qmail 44448 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2002 20:24:33 -0000 Received: from firewall (HELO SAMCHOW1.ca.nortel.com) (192.168.1.1) by homeserver with SMTP; 5 Jul 2002 20:24:33 -0000 Message-ID: <000f01c22461$f662e860$2784412f@ca.nortel.com> From: "Samuel Chow" To: "Manuel Kasper" Cc: References: <001a01c22443$91de50f0$5b00a8c0@CNMKA> Subject: Re: Perhaps a new "distribution"? Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 14:24:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > It would be cool if a more detailed choice could be made > during installation, say up to a granularity where you > can decide whether or not you want Perl, or gcc, or > sendmail, etc. That would render my guide almost > obsolete, however. There are certain things only required in a small/embedded environment, such as: 1. Dynamic linking of /sbin and /bin 2. Mounting / readonly 3. Picking *exactly* the binaries to install 4. Special make flags to reduce library dependencies These issues will not and cannot be dealt with by the default installer. --- Samuel Chow cyschow@shaw.ca This message is displayed using recycled electrons. Segmentation Fault (core dumped) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jul 5 14:42:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA2C37B400 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 14:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.boxitllc.com (mail2.boxitllc.com [209.209.45.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD0D43E09 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 14:42:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from helmut@zeebar.com) Received: (qmail 23270 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2002 14:49:28 -0700 Received: from h24-65-174-160.gv.shawcable.net (HELO BOBO) (helmut@zeebar.com@[24.65.174.160]) (envelope-sender ) by 0 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP for ; 5 Jul 2002 14:49:28 -0700 Message-ID: <004b01c2246c$85ca97f0$6601a8c0@BOBO> From: "Helmut Hissen" To: "Samuel Chow" Cc: References: <38E3A09A-8E42-11D6-BBF1-0030657B5F1E@bellsouth.net> <3D229963.EF2B40B3@pantherdragon.org> <001401c222c3$8fc05970$6601a8c0@BOBO> <000801c22460$f2dfaa80$2784412f@ca.nortel.com> Subject: Re: more on reducing FreeBSD Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 14:40:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Surprisingly little patching was required in /usr/src, but > > there was some pretty sad looking stuff in openssh for instance > > which needed patching (as some of you have found out :-). > > Are you talking about getting sshd to not do PAM? > I notice sshd and telnetd seems to ignore the define > NO_PAM (or NOPAM, can't remember). > oh yeah I forgot about that. (actually, I gave up on trying to build without pam). No, what I was refering to was the fact that some objects in libssh.a (linked by the various ssh binaries) need symbols in ssh.c and sshd.c (incidentally those were added to support ip6). > > The real fun starts with the miscellaneous stuff, like the > > rc.* and those little /etc/*{tab,.conf} files you never even > > know you had or needed. Many of those are highly subset-specific. > > I agree. It is annoying that I don't compile, for example, > named, but I have /etc/namedb/*. I know I can remove them > manually, but it would be nice if these stuff are only > installed with make install. > thats a good example. another is the combination of /etc/ttys, /dev/*, and kernel options depending on the desired console configuration. There are also fun interactions between bind, dhclient, dhcpd which require one-of magic and it would be nice to have something that understands how to generate configs, dhcp hooks, etc, depending on functionality subset you want. btw: I like the "new distribution" idea, but I dont think its good enough to commit to it being "80MB" or "40MB" or even "10MB". we should just get the dependencies cleaned up and defined in some generic format, let the installer pick the subset, and then have a way to build & install what is necessary and only that. I know thats a lot to ask but that I believe should be our long term goal. Helmut Hissen Zeebar Technology Services, Inc. ps: acrosser makes very nice disk-on-flash "IDE plugs" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jul 5 16: 7:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54B6C37B405 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 16:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spork.pantherdragon.org (spork.pantherdragon.org [206.29.168.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0DD043E31 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 16:07:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmp@pantherdragon.org) Received: from spark.techno.pagans (spark.techno.pagans [4.61.202.145]) by spork.pantherdragon.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47F92471DA; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 15:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pantherdragon.org (speck.techno.pagans [172.21.42.2]) by spark.techno.pagans (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E2B4FEBE; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 15:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3D261970.2923CB1@pantherdragon.org> Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 15:10:56 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Manuel Kasper Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Perhaps a new "distribution"? References: <001a01c22443$91de50f0$5b00a8c0@CNMKA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Manuel Kasper wrote: > Well the only thing I would wish for at the moment is one or two > additional distribution choices in the FreeBSD installer. "Minimal" > takes up about 80 MB at the moment, but includes things you may not need > on a truly minimal system (like e.g. compilers). It would be cool if a > more detailed choice could be made during installation, say up to a > granularity where you can decide whether or not you want Perl, or gcc, > or sendmail, etc. That would render my guide almost obsolete, however. To rip this issue right down to its roots, FreeBSD's installer lacks the itemization of the distrubtion sets that a lot of Linux distro's have. For example, RedHat has a method that's basically like our ports collection. It lets you do a custom install with single-program granularity and dependency checking at the expense of the actual copy taking longer, but also has pre-packaged installs and distribution sets. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jul 6 8:28:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E6137B400 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f136.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC80643E09 for ; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:28:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from amyshaftoe@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:28:56 -0700 Received: from 12.237.225.124 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 Jul 2002 15:28:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.237.225.124] From: "Amy Shaftoe" To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Perhaps a new "distribution"? Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 10:28:56 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2002 15:28:56.0780 (UTC) FILETIME=[D7EFB0C0:01C22501] Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > would love to be able to use BSD on. I need a bit of user > > data space, so I > > think a striped down distro (small enough to fit on, let say, > > 50-100MB) but with full funcionality would be great for me. > >Well the only thing I would wish for at the moment is one or two >additional distribution choices in the FreeBSD installer. "Minimal" >takes up about 80 MB at the moment, but includes things you may not need >on a truly minimal system (like e.g. compilers). It would be cool if a >more detailed choice could be made during installation, say up to a >granularity where you can decide whether or not you want Perl, or gcc, >or sendmail, etc. That would render my guide almost obsolete, however. I just wish I could install the current FreeBSD distribution on a machine with only 8 MB of memory. I think 4.3 was the last release where that was possible. I tried to build custom boot floppies for 4.5 with most of the ethernet drivers removed. While I got a little further in the boot process with these floppies, it still failed. Has anyone had any success in doing this? On some machines I have (old laptops) adding more RAM isn't an option and removing the hard drive to do the install somewhere else is a pain. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message