From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 18 10:18:55 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8B9837B401 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from thor.acuson.com (thor.acuson.com [157.226.71.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D78B43F85 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:18:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com (mvaexch02.acuson.com [157.226.230.209]) by thor.acuson.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HAI001D9O5GNX@thor.acuson.com> for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:10:59 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-133.acuson.com ([157.226.46.133]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id Y2R0PXLT; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:12:22 -0800 Content-return: allowed Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:18:22 -0800 From: Johnson David Subject: Re: BSD architecture over Linux? In-reply-to: <20030216005228.76524.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> To: Haikal Saadh , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-id: <200302181018.22800.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Organization: Siemens Medical Systems MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20030216005228.76524.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday 15 February 2003 04:52 pm, Haikal Saadh wrote: > o Debian's packaging system has optional dependencies, whilst the > closest this freebsd has is using WITH_SOMETHING or WITHOUT_SOMETHING > in while make'ing. (Either that or hack makefile :D ) Just so everyone knows, Debian's packaging system is not magical. Their optional dependencies are conceptually no different from our make variables. The major difference is that theirs works with binary packages while ours don't. And besides which, Debian is just one distro out of hundreds. This doesn't give Linux an advantage over FreeBSD, because the most common package format under Linux is still the b0rken RPMs. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 18 15:23:14 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9745A37B401 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8904543F75 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:23:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18lH4w-0000ph-00; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:23:10 +0000 Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1INN9Pe086525; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:23:09 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h1INN9V0086524; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:23:09 GMT Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:23:09 +0000 From: Jonathon McKitrick To: Haikal Saadh Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD architecture over Linux? Message-ID: <20030218232309.GA86388@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20030215054352.GC35069@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20030216005228.76524.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030216005228.76524.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *18lH4w-0000ph-00*ZA9vV9NBy1.* Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 04:52:28PM -0800, Haikal Saadh wrote: : >From personal experience, : o We just got CardBus while linux has had cardbus support for a : while. When I switched, I ran into a similar problem with parallel port zip drives. However, after looking at the Linux code and then the existing FreeBSD code, there is no question which one I would trust more. ;-) : o Debian's packaging system has optional dependencies, whilst the : closest this freebsd has is using WITH_SOMETHING or WITHOUT_SOMETHING : in while make'ing. (Either that or hack makefile :D ) I guess I'm fortunate this hasn't caused a problem for me, at least not that I am aware of. Then again, it's nice to have portugrade to hold my hand. : o Linux kernel compile/install process is still a Royal PITA. FreeBSD : is as easy as a make buildkernel and a make installkernel. Ah, yes. Thanks for reminding me of this. It's been a long time since I did a Linux kernel customization. : o We have background fsck. I didn't think this was that important, : but when I actually saw it in action, I was impressed. It sounds very cool. Fortunately, my laptop doesn't crash often, so fscking isn't something I deal with often. Jonathon -- When I die, I want to go in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming, like the passengers in his car. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 18 15:32: 3 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F220E37B401 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2539E43F75 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18lHDS-0006Q2-00; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:31:58 +0000 Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1INVwPe086625; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:31:58 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h1INVs0V086624; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:31:54 GMT Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:31:53 +0000 From: Jonathon McKitrick To: Linh Pham Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD architecture over Linux? Message-ID: <20030218233153.GA86542@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20030215054352.GC35069@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20030216005228.76524.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> <20030216043304.GA59311@q.closedsrc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030216043304.GA59311@q.closedsrc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *18lHDS-0006Q2-00*6qujmMl/q3k* Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 08:33:04PM -0800, Linh Pham wrote: : With Linux, the location of config files, startup files and services : can differ greatly from one distribution to another. Which means that if : you had worked primarily in RedHat at one place then moved somewhere : else that used Debian or SuSE, you'd have to re-learn some of the : differences and nuances. : : With FreeBSD, it's one distribution and there is a standard (or at least : recommendation) of where to place startup scripts (/usr/local/etc/rc.d) : or config files (/etc or /usr/local/etc). Of course, that may not hold : when you move from FreeBSD to OpenBSD or NetBSD... Interesting you should mention that. When I started with Linux, I tried RH and Mandrake. Then, after a few shutdowns that oddly destroyed my filesystem, I found a critical update of the Linux runlevel startup scripts. There was apparently a bug that, if the cdrom was mounted, trashed / on shutdown. Nice, eh? I wondered how in the world *startup* and *shutdown* scripts could be so easily screwed up. I never did find out why, because the Mandrake update system left me uncertain of whether it correctly got the dependencies or not. So, I jettisoned Linux and installed FreeBSD. :-) Thanks for your thoughts, Linh and Haikal Jonathon -- "The spice must flow...." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message