From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 16 2:14:44 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9CDD37B401 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 02:14:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.65.60]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A60443F3F for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 02:14:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from snowfall@gmx.co.uk) Received: (qmail 16677 invoked by uid 0); 16 Mar 2003 09:47:56 -0000 Received: from tnt2-155.quicksilver.net.nz (HELO COMPUTER.gmx.co.uk) (202.89.134.155) by mail.gmx.net (mp009-rz3) with SMTP; 16 Mar 2003 09:47:56 -0000 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030316201802.020b5230@213.165.64.20> X-Sender: 6803933@213.165.64.20 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 21:46:53 +1200 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: Craig Carey Subject: OpenBSD uses SpamCop (was Re: Blocking addresses of non-spammers; bug reporting In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030316095750.035d3748@213.165.64.20> References: <20030314170503.C60320@xeon.unixathome.org> <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The OpenBSD mailing list seem to be running better. http://www.openbsd.org/mail.html : | Spam is always forbidden but sometimes things slip through the cracks. If | you get spam through one of the OpenBSD mailing lists, you might want to | submit it to spamcop. -- Declan wrote about SpamCop. http://www.politechbot.com/p-04259.html : the summary upto 18 Dec2002 At 2002\12\18 10:51 -0500 Wednesday, Declan McCullagh wrote: >SpamCop's Julian Haight intentionally blocked mail from the Politech server >(which has never been a source of any spam) last month as a way to apply >pressure to the network where the server is located. Then he appeared to >change his mind and back down. But he refused to tell me what happened and http://www.politechbot.com/p-04261.html : SpamCop targets another rival: Despammed.com's free service http://www.politechbot.com/p-04129.html At 2002\11\04 22:05 -0500 Monday, Declan McCullagh wrote: >See also, from the second time Politech was incorrectly blacklisted by Spamcop: ... > >Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:52:44 -0500 >From: jhh@siliconinc.net >To: Declan McCullagh >Subject: Re: FC: Politech incorrectly blocked by SpamCop -- for the third time > >Hi Declan, > >I recently worked with a datacenter that housed a rather notorious >spammer (azoogle.com), and found out that spamcop actually does not >filter them (or several other spammers). Why? Payoffs. Thats right, >spamcop is paid to not filter several several UCB sources... I guess >thats their right though as a business (just as its mine to seek a >better source of blacklists). Its a bit annoying that they have that >paypal "donate" button up at the top of their website though. Im sure >they are doing quite well from the spammers bribes and the last thing >they need is more money. > That's not bad. It is sort of inherently reasonable. The list of Politechbot articles on SpamCop: http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=spamcop A lengthy page summarising SpamCop : http://jhoward.fastmail.fm/spamcop.html http://www.politechbot.com/p-04527.html At 03\03\06 13:42 -0500 Thursday, Declan McCullagh wrote: Subject: Spamcop again blocks legit site, reportedly takes out Tucows ... >Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 12:01:35 -0500 >From: Edward Gray >To: discuss-list@opensrs.org ... >The duration that the blacklist will remain active is difficult to determine >but the longest we have remained blacklisted so far is approximately 19 >hours with some of the events lasting a 1-2 hours. > >Edward Gray >Director, Operations & Networks >Tucows Inc. -------------------- Some calculations OpenBSD is able to reverse wrong blocking decisions about 268 times faster than FreeBSD did. That has 19hrs be on the denominator. OpenBSD could be nearly 2,500 times faster at unblocking wrong blocking decisions that FreeBSD. So OpenBSD is hundreds of times more responsive. At 03\03\16 18:17 +1200 Sunday, Craig Carey wrote: > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 16 9:52:52 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16DE37B401; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 09:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B45743F93; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 09:52:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from arved@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (arved@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h2GHqoNS038086; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 09:52:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from arved@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from arved@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h2GHqoCZ038082; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 09:52:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 09:52:50 -0800 (PST) From: Tilman Linneweh Message-Id: <200303161752.h2GHqoCZ038082@freefall.freebsd.org> To: olivas@digiflux.org, arved@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: advocacy/47606: The advocacy push continues.. FreeBSD PR team proposed... News at 11. Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Synopsis: The advocacy push continues.. FreeBSD PR team proposed... News at 11. State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: arved State-Changed-When: Sun Mar 16 09:52:16 PST 2003 State-Changed-Why: Not a PR http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=47606 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 16 16:29:46 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2A6737B401 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 16:29:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52B1043F75 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 16:29:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0507.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.252] helo=mindspring.com) by bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18uiVY-0007hE-00; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 16:29:41 -0800 Message-ID: <3E751697.8B69040E@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 16:28:07 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Craig Carey Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Blocking addresses of non-spammers; bug reporting References: <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <5.2.0.9.2.20030316095750.035d3748@213.165.64.20> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4e75a06af8993549ab11769b2885efe6fa7ce0e8f8d31aa3f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Craig Carey wrote: > At 03\03\14 17:05 -0500 Friday, Dan Langille wrote: > >I've used both the web interface and send-pr. I have no problem with > >either. All my dealings with postmaster@ have been resolved promptly. > > The web interface is disabled as you would know I presume. > > It's confirmable by browsing to here: http://www.freebsd.org/send-pr.html > > The webpage lacks does not give any reasoning whatsoever for that. > Immediately I wondered if Postmaster was involved. The same was not found > by me in the bugs, and www, mailing lists. The problem is that the send-pr web form can, effectively, be used to attack someone once a week automatically by submitting a PR from a false email address (this is arguably a bug in the send-pr system when it comes to sending weekly status messages to pester someone). In addition, it can be used to file false and harrassing PR's, to generate email to mailing lists, and so on, and it can be used to generate individual email messages directly, through multiple use of the interface (this is also arguably a bug in the send-pr system when it comes to sending acknowledgement messages to the "original submitter"). Basically, it's a web->email gateway, and can be abused as such. I would like to see the weekly status messages disabled, and I would like to see the submission feedback email disabled. By doing this, I believe that the send-pr web form can be reenabled. Dan: The reason you have not had a problem with send-pr is that you are not sending from an email address which is authorized to use a mail server that does not match its domain. In other words, you are not being shut down over legitimate relay. For example, my current email address is "@mindspring.com", but the mail server through which I am required to relay email is "@earthlink.net". There are a number of places that block my email on the basis of "@mindspring.com != @earthlink.net", and FreeBSD's mail server that handles send-pr is one of them. In other words, my mail is blocked because the person who configured the blocking engine is apparently unaware that Mindspring is a wholly owned subsidiary of Earthlink, and therefore that my "relay" is not in fact a relay. There are a *lot* of people in this boat, and with ISP's trying to buy marketshare by gobbling up smaller ISPs (in particular, Earthlink does this), this problem will continue into the forseeable future. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Mar 16 22:47:11 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0727237B401 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 22:47:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2136B43F93 for ; Sun, 16 Mar 2003 22:47:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Received: from gothmog.gr (patr530-a002.otenet.gr [212.205.215.2]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2H6l35u014277 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 08:47:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from gothmog.gr (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.gr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2H43NuH038606 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 06:03:23 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from giorgos@localhost) by gothmog.gr (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2H43Nwk038605; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 06:03:23 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 06:03:23 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Craig Carey Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Blocking addresses of non-spammers; bug reporting Message-ID: <20030317040323.GB31084@gothmog.gr> References: <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <5.2.0.9.2.20030316095750.035d3748@213.165.64.20> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-action=pgp-signed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030316095750.035d3748@213.165.64.20> X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.2(snapshot 20021217) (terpsi) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2003-03-16 18:17, Craig Carey wrote: > At 03\03\14 17:05 -0500 Friday, Dan Langille wrote: > >On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > >> Craig Carey > >> cross posted verbosely with > >> > Message-id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030313162831.04640760@pop.qsi.net.nz> > >> > To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > >> ... > >> > Mr Bresler .... stand down > >> > >> Herewith a statement of confidence in JB, & public thanks for his > >> free time volunteered to spend defending us from spammers & trollers > >> etc. I've been with FreeBSD from the start, I've not tried the web > >> bug reporter (I use send-pr direct), but I've never had any complaint > >> in the way Jonnathan Bressler performed his postmaster@ role. > > > >I've used both the web interface and send-pr. I have no problem with > >either. All my dealings with postmaster@ have been resolved promptly. > > The web interface is disabled as you would know I presume. > > It's confirmable by browsing to here: http://www.freebsd.org/send-pr.html > > The webpage lacks does not give any reasoning whatsoever for that. > Immediately I wondered if Postmaster was involved. No, the postmaster has nothing to do with the web interface of the PR. > The same was not found by me in the bugs, and www, mailing lists. /me puts bugmaster@FreeBSD.org hat on The web interface is disabled because it was abused by a troll to fill our gnats database with tons of bogus "PRs". I've installed gnats at home and have been trying to find a reasonable chunk of time to change the submission process for the web form to require a verification step that would make it an awful lot more difficult for bogus PRs to enter the databasee but be relatively easy for legitimate submitters who are just being helpful with developing FreeBSD. If you can help with code or ideas towards this end, I'd be *very* glad to get any sort of assistance. - - Giorgos -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+dUkK1g+UGjGGA7YRAmroAJ4yrIJyH7+0me/XawConTLfhnLi+QCfVdv6 3UIwVcwMEJ7nyi7mgDWcYyw= =DQhi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 17 0:17:21 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3599F37B401 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:17:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (imap.gmx.net [213.165.65.60]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 719EF43F93 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:17:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from snowfall@gmx.co.uk) Received: (qmail 8670 invoked by uid 0); 17 Mar 2003 08:17:10 -0000 Received: from tnt2-137.quicksilver.net.nz (HELO COMPUTER.gmx.co.uk) (202.89.134.137) by mail.gmx.net (mp009-rz3) with SMTP; 17 Mar 2003 08:17:10 -0000 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030317174305.03f7abc0@213.165.64.20> X-Sender: 6803933@213.165.64.20 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:16:13 +1200 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: Craig Carey Subject: Re: Blocking addresses of non-spammers; bug reporting Cc: Terry Lambert In-Reply-To: <3E751697.8B69040E@mindspring.com> References: <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <5.2.0.9.2.20030316095750.035d3748@213.165.64.20> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 03\03\16 16:28 -0800 Sunday, Terry Lambert wrote: >Craig Carey wrote: >> At 03\03\14 17:05 -0500 Friday, Dan Langille wrote: >> >I've used both the web interface and send-pr. I have no problem with >> >either. All my dealings with postmaster@ have been resolved promptly. >> >> The web interface is disabled as you would know I presume. >> >> It's confirmable by browsing to here: http://www.freebsd.org/send-pr.html >> ... >generate email to mailing lists, and so on, and it can be used to >generate individual email messages directly, through multiple use >of the interface (this is also arguably a bug in the send-pr >system when it comes to sending acknowledgement messages to the >"original submitter"). > >Basically, it's a web->email gateway, and can be abused as such. > An actual fact of reasoning. Something so material that even if there was a complete withholding of, arguments could be made that it is wrong, into the dark, and all parties are satisfied. --- The message that comes back to me is hard to understand, Perhaps it could be improved so that there is a suggestion on whether or not they should sign up with a DNS service provider. I have this text at my website: | "This man has reverted to Heathenism after embracing Islam." Mu'adh said, | "I will not dismount till he is killed." Abu Musa replied, "He has been | brought for this purpose, so come down." Mu'adh said, "I will not dismount | till he is killed." So Abu Musa ordered that he be killed, and he was | killed. From : http://www.ijs.co.nz/islamic-bible.htm I am not removing the webpage if FreeBSD insisted. First it has to reverse the untrue claim that it is not black-hole blocking my e-mail. >The reason you have not had a problem with send-pr is that you >are not sending from an email address which is authorized to use >a mail server that does not match its domain. In other words, >you are not being shut down over legitimate relay. > ... >There are a *lot* of people in this [dinghy in the Poseidon] boat, and >with ISP's trying... Fairly unquantified there. Just a small fraction is it ?. I will leave skepticism to others. Abuse is abuse, right?. That is what "maxed out at 5 lines" FreeBSD and phone company abuse officials might say. It is like with my situation: there is a possibility of improvement. (1) My problem seems to eb that my requests for reasoning and getting trashed (2) Existing FreeBSD software running in its hyper-pretext mood. (3) The plan is to take no action to disable that mood ?. (4) Suppose it teleports (ex Star Trek) over to other software items put in there. It might be the architecture list that would consider that. ---- The complaints from large companies are weak legally. E.g. "you'll have policies". Facts are missing. A strangely broken sentence and a strong suggestion that <10 TCP packets took some huge system offline. I got a sampler of US complaints using local law. The more innocent the party then the more stupid the complaints since the senders filter out the reasonable complaints. Is it FreeBSD policy to give no weight to big companies who might "as a group" produce legally weak (irrespective of whether legally threatening) complaints ?. Less morally weak are complaints from ADSL users. The data about the abuse should be public so that it can be checked that PC and ADSL users and one person complainers are at least regarded as more credible. I am sure that FreeBSD got the weighting wrong. If there is going to be an estimating of how abusing the abuse of FreeBSD is, then the postmaster's records have got to be seen to be believed. --------------- Now I quote the full document of Mr Jonathan M Bresler. This the official FreeBSD position. Also Mr Bresler never alleged that I caused a problem. That can be seen from below. Mr Bresler is involved in claiming that the counterattack that is never lifted, actually never even started. Let me guess: Bressler is a programmer. __________________________________________________________________________ At 02\10\18 07:29 -0700 Friday, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > >> My e-mail address is research@ijs.c---o.nz. >> >> If you have a dislike of that e-mail address then I request that >> that information (no matter in how bad a shape it is) be provided >> to me. > > we accept email from your address: > >bash-2.04# host freebsd.org >freebsd.org has address 216.136.204.21 >freebsd.org mail is handled (pri=10) by mx1.freebsd.org >bash-2.04# telnet mx1.freebsd.org 25 >Trying 216.136.204.125... >Connected to mx1.freebsd.org. >Escape character is '^]'. >220 mx1.FreeBSD.org ESMTP Postfix (Postfix Rules!) >helo ijs.co.nz >250 mx1.FreeBSD.org >mail from: research@ijs.co.nz >250 Ok >rcpt to: postmaster@freebsd.org >250 Ok >rcpt to: freebsd-test@freebsd.org >250 Ok >data >354 End data with . > >test sending mail from research@ijs.co.nz >to both postmaster@freebsd.org and freebsd-test@freebsd.org > >. >250 Ok: queued as 686DD43E97 >quit >221 Bye >Connection closed by foreign host. > >Oct 18 07:10:05 mx1 postfix/smtpd[57382]: 686DD43E97: >client=mx1.freebsd.org[216.136.204.125] >Oct 18 07:10:49 mx1 postfix/cleanup[57442]: 686DD43E97: >message-id=<20021018141005.686DD43E97@mx1.FreeBSD.org> >Oct 18 07:10:49 mx1 postfix/qmgr[57338]: 686DD43E97: >from=, size=461, nrcpt=2 (queue active) >Oct 18 07:10:50 mx1 postfix/smtp[57488]: 686DD43E97: >to=, relay=hub.freebsd.org[216.136.204.18], >delay=45, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 0153937B401) >Oct 18 07:10:50 mx1 postfix/smtp[57488]: 686DD43E97: >to=, relay=hub.freebsd.org[216.136.204.18], >delay=45, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 0153937B401) > > >> >> The FreeBSD server stopped sending e-mail to my e-mail address on >> about 14 Aug 2002 06:51:27 -0000. I was subscribed to >> FreeBSD-Questions and that was the date of the last message that >> I received. >> >> The request above is for reasoning and thus unable your records >> should have the information of the exact [sic] reasoning that was >> used on that date. > > we remove addresses that bounce more than ~20 messages in a single > 24 hour period. most likely you were removed from the lists for > that reason. > >> >> You may explain to me if you wish to write to me. Also we may ... >> Please put your name in your e-mail address responding to this >> e-mail message that I write. > > postmaster@freebsd.org is the best way to reach me. my name is > Jonathan M Bresler > >> >> I do not request a correction to the configuration, i.e to the >> blocking. ... This FreeBSD does not seem to be run on the lines of Ombudsman Offices, where Official Information is available unless there is good reason for withholding it. The New Zealand Official Information Act has a wording like (I shan't check the quote). Is there a page saying that FreeBSD has got an openness of information policy ... Why not open up a position for the FreeBSD Ombudsman ?. (Thanks in advance for such a lengthy discussion on that topic.) The PR person position could be deleted, or renamed. I recommend that FreeBSD rename the PR position into a position for an Ombudsman, who has a great interest in lawyer, and facts as they are. Normally Ombudsman spend the bulk of their time trying to oppose untrue claims that information is not available. Probably Mr Terry Lambert would be excellent there. I switched over to Linux due to the dispute (though I see it is thinking of delete my personal data). So I don't see a bug report system. It would be solved with an Office of the FreeBSD Ombudsman. Maybe the topic will go away. Craig Carey New Zealand To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 17 1:17:13 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 704D937B401 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 01:17:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 282A243F85 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 01:17:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Received: from gothmog.gr (patr530-b137.otenet.gr [212.205.244.145]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2H9H75u024280; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:17:08 +0200 (EET) Received: from gothmog.gr (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.gr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2H9H6Kh002100; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:17:06 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from giorgos@localhost) by gothmog.gr (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2H9H56E002099; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:17:05 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:17:05 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Craig Carey Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org, Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Blocking addresses of non-spammers; bug reporting Message-ID: <20030317091705.GA1720@gothmog.gr> References: <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <5.2.0.9.2.20030316095750.035d3748@213.165.64.20> <5.2.0.9.2.20030317174305.03f7abc0@213.165.64.20> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030317174305.03f7abc0@213.165.64.20> X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.2(snapshot 20021217) (terpsi) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2003-03-17 20:16, Craig Carey wrote: > I have this text at my website: > > | "This man has reverted to Heathenism after embracing Islam." Mu'adh > | said, "I will not dismount till he is killed." Abu Musa replied, > | "He has been brought for this purpose, so come down." Mu'adh said, > | "I will not dismount till he is killed." So Abu Musa ordered that > | he be killed, and he was killed. > > From : http://www.ijs.co.nz/islamic-bible.htm > > I am not removing the webpage if FreeBSD insisted. First it has to reverse > the untrue claim that it is not black-hole blocking my e-mail. This post has reached freebsd-advocacy fine. What black-holing are you talking about? I don't see why you would be so persistent in claiming that your messages are blackholed in one of the lists that are hosted by the mail server that is allegedly blackholing your posts. . . :-/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 17 4: 0:53 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15F537B401 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 04:00:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DF1C443FBD for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 04:00:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from snowfall@gmx.co.uk) Received: (qmail 30813 invoked by uid 0); 17 Mar 2003 12:00:45 -0000 Received: from tnt2-39.quicksilver.net.nz (HELO COMPUTER.gmx.co.uk) (202.89.134.39) by mail.gmx.net (mp019-rz3) with SMTP; 17 Mar 2003 12:00:45 -0000 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030317230131.034ddeb0@213.165.64.20> X-Sender: 6803933@213.165.64.20 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:00:42 +1200 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: Craig Carey Subject: Re: Blocking addresses of non-spammers; bug reporting Cc: Giorgos Keramidas In-Reply-To: <20030317091705.GA1720@gothmog.gr> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030317174305.03f7abc0@213.165.64.20> <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <5.2.0.9.2.20030316095750.035d3748@213.165.64.20> <5.2.0.9.2.20030317174305.03f7abc0@213.165.64.20> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 03\03\17 11:17 +0200 Monday, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: ... > >This post has reached freebsd-advocacy fine. What black-holing are >you talking about? I don't see why you would be so persistent in >claiming that your messages are blackholed in one of the lists that >are hosted by the mail server that is allegedly blackholing your >posts. . . > After seeing that message (I now reply to) I tried an ISP e-mail address I have. Nothing came back, suggesting a few things including this. FreeBSD's system is deleting a "www." and then using information after that step. research@ijs.co.nz -> 202.89.128.19 -> www.qsi.net.nz -> qsi.net.nz -> No IP number It might have started when my ISP disabled some of the lookups. I don't know. ----------------------------------- http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=express&Netnic=whois.arin.net&host=ijs.co.nz IP address: 202.89.128.19 Host name: ijs.co.nz Alias: www.qsi.net.nz ----------------------------------- http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=express&Netnic=whois.arin.net&host=202.89.128.19 IP address: 202.89.128.19 Host name: www.qsi.net.nz ----------------------------------- Now I arbitrarily strip off the "www.": http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=express&Netnic=whois.arin.net&host=qsi.net.nz Error: Host not found Host name: qsi.net.nz I hadn't noticed that my ISP has new hostnames that don't have IP numbers ----------------------------------- So it could be a "DNS lookups on unnecessarily edited hostnames fail" type of problem. -- The tests I was doing and did today, was to send e-mail to: The mail was sent from: <-- mail came back <-- mail did not come back My ISP's DNS server: soa1.qsi.net.nz It is too early for me to comment on that (e.g. it still seems that FreeBSD is losing the e-mail. ----------------------------------- At 03\03\17 06:03 +0200 Monday, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ... >No, the postmaster has nothing to do with the web interface of the PR. > >> The same was not found by me in the bugs, and www, mailing lists. > >/me puts bugmaster@FreeBSD.org hat on > >The web interface is disabled because it was abused by a troll to fill >our gnats database with tons of bogus "PRs". I've installed gnats at >home and have been trying to find a reasonable chunk of time to change >the submission process for the web form to require a verification step >that would make it an awful lot more difficult for bogus PRs to enter >the databasee but be relatively easy for legitimate submitters who are >just being helpful with developing FreeBSD. > >If you can help with code or ideas towards this end, I'd be *very* >glad to get any sort of assistance. ... I request that your name go onto the bug reporting webpage. To disable an attack might require, e.g. that the user copy off letters or digits, from a GIF showing into a form. I am guessing that it is easier to write software to delete the effect of an attack. Craig Carey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 17 7: 6:58 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B83A337B401; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:06:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw.cscoms.com (mailgw.cscoms.com [202.183.255.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B452043FBD; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:06:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from job2546@thaimail.com) Received: from cscoms.com (mail.cscoms.com [202.183.255.23]) by mailgw.cscoms.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2HF2Lil061968; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:02:22 +0700 (ICT) Received: from ME (dial-144.ras-21.bkk.c.cscoms.com [203.170.145.144]) by cscoms.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h2HEpuwo024914; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:51:58 +0700 (GMT) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:51:56 +0700 (GMT) Message-Id: <200303171451.h2HEpuwo024914@cscoms.com> From: job2546@thaimail.com Subject: "ถ้าคุณยังทำสิ่งที่คุณทำอยู่วันนี้ พรุ่งนี้ก็จะเหมือนวันนี้ X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Reply-To: job2546@thaimail.com X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="#MYBOUNDARY#" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) To: undisclosed-recipients: ; Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --#MYBOUNDARY# Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ansi Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "หากคุณล้มเหลวที่จะวางแผน ย่อมแปลว่าคุณวางแผนที่จะล้มเหลว" จิม โรห์น นักปรัชญาอันดับ 1 ของโลก เช่น คุณคิดว่าในชีวิตนี้เราคงไม่มีทางรวย คุณก็ไจะไม่มีทางรวยเลย หรือ "คุณคิดว่าสักวันถึงฉันต้องรวยแน่ๆ" จิม โรห์น บอกว่า "ถ้าคุณยังทำสิ่งที่คุณทำอยู่ทุกวันนี้ อีก 3 ปีข้างหน้าลองคิดดูว่า คุณจะมีโอกาสรวยได้หรือไม่" "ถ้าคำตอบคือ ใช่ คุณกำลังจะรวย" ก็ยินดีกับคุณด้วยครับคุณกำลังจะรวยแล้ว "แต่ถ้าคำตอบคือ ไม่ คุณไม่สามารถรวยได้" คุณต้องเปลี่ยนอะไรสักอย่างในชีวิตคุณแล้ว จิม โรห์น บอกอีกว่า "ถ้าคุณยังทำสิ่งที่คุณทำอยู่วันนี้ พรุ่งนี้ก็จะเหมือนวันนี้ ไปเรื่อยๆไม่มีที่สิ้นสุด" หมายความว่า -ถ้าวันนี้คุณยังต้องวิ่งหาเงิน จ่ายหนี้ต่างๆ -ถ้าวันนี้คุณยังถูกเจ้านายกดขี่ ใช้งานอย่างหนัก -ถ้าวันนี้คุณยังหาทางออกไม่ได้ ลองเปิดโอกาสให้ตัวเองดู เปิดใจของคุณให้กว้างแล้วเดินตามเรามาหรือปล่อยให้โอกาสนี้หลุดลอยไป ============================================================ คุณสามารถเข้าไปดูรายละเอียดเพิ่มเติมและกรอกข้อมูลเพื่อขอรับข้อมูลเบื้องต้นฟรี ! ได้ที่ http://www.geocities.com/thaigetrich/easywork ============================================================ ขออภัยหากข้อความนี้ถูกส่งไปยังคุณโดยบังเอิญ หากคุณไม่ต้องการรับข้อความนี้อีกกรุณา mail มาที่ www.ecommerce.web1000.com/unsub --#MYBOUNDARY#-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 17 7:14:26 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 407D037B412; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:14:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F44D44032; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:13:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (electron.centtech.com [204.177.173.173]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2HFDT56033342; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:13:29 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3E75E5FF.90603@centtech.com> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:13:03 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Murray Stokely Cc: Christian Brueffer , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD segment on TechTV - Friday Mar/14 @ 4pm References: <20030313152749.R25592@freebsdmall.com> <3E711512.4070505@centtech.com> <20030316015631.GE606@unixpages.org> <20030315181033.I64051@freebsdmall.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've posted it at: http://www.bsdevents.org/media/freebsd-techtv-20030314.mpg It's about 50mb. Good job Murray! Hopefully we can get another (longer) spot on the show. Eric Murray Stokely wrote: > On Sun, Mar 16, 2003 at 02:56:32AM +0100, Christian Brueffer wrote: > >>Yes, I would love to see that. > > > I'll make it available on www.freebsd.org/~murray as soon as someone > sends it to me. I haven't even seen the full segment yet, though at > one point during the taping I saw the video feed out of the corner of > my eye and could see a sysinstall installation window at the bottom of > the screen beneath us talking. ;) > > I think the show will be shown one more time on Sunday morning. > > I think we will be able to do a longer segment in the future. > > - Murray -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Attitudes are contagious, is yours worth catching? ------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 17 13: 6:13 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AAFD37B404; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (haakonia.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.92]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A95043F93; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:06:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) by haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 754C5A91E; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:06:08 +0100 (CET) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 39CC74619; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:06:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:06:06 +0100 From: Christian Brueffer To: Eric Anderson Cc: Murray Stokely , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD segment on TechTV - Friday Mar/14 @ 4pm Message-ID: <20030317210606.GF606@unixpages.org> References: <20030313152749.R25592@freebsdmall.com> <3E711512.4070505@centtech.com> <20030316015631.GE606@unixpages.org> <20030315181033.I64051@freebsdmall.com> <3E75E5FF.90603@centtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="twz1s1Hj1O0rHoT0" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3E75E5FF.90603@centtech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --twz1s1Hj1O0rHoT0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 09:13:03AM -0600, Eric Anderson wrote: > I've posted it at: >=20 > http://www.bsdevents.org/media/freebsd-techtv-20030314.mpg >=20 > It's about 50mb. >=20 > Good job Murray! Hopefully we can get another (longer) spot on the show. >=20 >=20 Cool, thanks for recording it. Nice show :-) - Christian --=20 Christian Brueffer chris@unixpages.org brueffer@FreeBSD.org GPG Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D --twz1s1Hj1O0rHoT0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+dji+bHYXjKDtmC0RAtHmAJ986o/BnhIhroOsyhAbysOvZS9Z7QCfZ83O eZxkSi9IdXTB61xWr20NuEk= =/0En -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --twz1s1Hj1O0rHoT0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 17 17:10:51 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E53D637B401 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:10:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97CAF43F93 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:10:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Received: from gothmog.gr (patr530-a237.otenet.gr [212.205.215.237]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2I1Ah5u005060; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:10:44 +0200 (EET) Received: from gothmog.gr (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.gr (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2I1AgEK003945; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:10:42 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from giorgos@localhost) by gothmog.gr (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2I1AgaM003944; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:10:42 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:10:42 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Craig Carey Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Blocking addresses of non-spammers; bug reporting Message-ID: <20030318011042.GB2734@gothmog.gr> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030317174305.03f7abc0@213.165.64.20> <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <200303131013.h2DADL386993@flip.jhs.private> <5.2.0.9.2.20030316095750.035d3748@213.165.64.20> <5.2.0.9.2.20030317174305.03f7abc0@213.165.64.20> <5.2.0.9.2.20030317230131.034ddeb0@213.165.64.20> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-action=pgp-signed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030317230131.034ddeb0@213.165.64.20> X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.2(snapshot 20021217) (terpsi) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2003-03-18 00:00, Craig Carey wrote: >At 03\03\17 11:17 +0200 Monday, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >> This post has reached freebsd-advocacy fine. What black-holing are >> you talking about? I don't see why you would be so persistent in >> claiming that your messages are blackholed in one of the lists that >> are hosted by the mail server that is allegedly blackholing your >> posts. . . > > After seeing that message (I now reply to) I tried an ISP e-mail > address I have. Nothing came back, suggesting a few things including > this. The problem then is with the ISP address you have. This indicates that at least part of the problem is something in th setup of the particular ISP. > FreeBSD's system is deleting a "www." and then using information > after that step. This is not necessarily true. > research@ijs.co.nz > -> 202.89.128.19 > -> www.qsi.net.nz > -> qsi.net.nz > -> No IP number What is research@ijs.co.nz ? Why is it related to the mail problems you're seeing? > [snip web whois queries] > So it could be a "DNS lookups on unnecessarily edited hostnames > fail" type of problem. While this is possible (of low possibility, however), see below... > The tests I was doing and did today, was to send e-mail to: > > The mail was sent from: > > <-- mail came back > <-- mail did not come back What is the *exact* message returned to you when you tried to mail majordomo@freebsd.org ? > It is too early for me to comment on that (e.g. it still seems that > FreeBSD is losing the e-mail. It's not "losing" the message, if you got a delivery failure back, as you said above. It is "rejecting" it though, and the reason of the rejection should be clearly stated in the returned message. So, what was the exact text of this returned message? - - Giorgos -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+dnIS1g+UGjGGA7YRArPsAJ4i1+mig4bfw5HLPRwDaeRAuKw+SwCgpEig Xr0LQz9Z+ajbCOpRLeEjf8M= =J7qX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Mar 17 23:40: 2 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C410937B43F for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:40:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from swissgeeks.com (adsl-212-101-16-119.solnet.ch [212.101.16.119]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 79B6A43F93 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:39:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pbrossin@swissgeeks.com) Received: (qmail 20616 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2003 07:39:34 -0000 Received: from localhost (127.0.0.1) by server.swissgeeks.com (127.0.0.1) with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2003 07:39:34 -0000 Received: from 195.49.31.34 ( [195.49.31.34]) as user pbrossin@localhost by www.swissgeeks.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:39:34 +0100 Message-ID: <1047973174.3e76cd3605fdc@www.swissgeeks.com> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:39:34 +0100 From: Pierrick Brossin To: Christian Brueffer Cc: Eric Anderson , Murray Stokely , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD segment on TechTV - Friday Mar/14 @ 4pm References: <20030313152749.R25592@freebsdmall.com> <3E711512.4070505@centtech.com> <20030316015631.GE606@unixpages.org> <20030315181033.I64051@freebsdmall.com> <3E75E5FF.90603@centtech.com> <20030317210606.GF606@unixpages.org> In-Reply-To: <20030317210606.GF606@unixpages.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.0 X-Originating-IP: 195.49.31.34 X-Sent-Via: Mitel Networks SME Server Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Quoting Christian Brueffer : > On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 09:13:03AM -0600, Eric Anderson wrote: > > I've posted it at: > > > > http://www.bsdevents.org/media/freebsd-techtv-20030314.mpg > > > > It's about 50mb. > > > > Good job Murray! Hopefully we can get another (longer) spot on the show. > > > > > > Cool, thanks for recording it. Nice show :-) Here are some of the highlights of release 5.0. We'll discuss all this and more on the show. I know you said it was a segment but do we have chances to see the whole stuff ? I live in switzerland and i'm really interested in seeing the whole thing (don't have techtv round here I assume). Thanx -- Pierrick Brossin IT Swiss - QUARK Media House 6a Puits Godet, 2000 Neuchatel, Switzerland Tel Prof: +41-327201423 Mobile Priv: +41-794137145 Mail Prof: pbrossin@quark.ch Mail Priv: admin@swissgeeks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 18 0: 0:37 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A52E37B401 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from builder.freebsdmall.com (builder.freebsdmall.com [65.86.180.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 946F043F75 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:00:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from murray@builder.freebsdmall.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by builder.freebsdmall.com (8.12.7/8.11.6) id h2I80S8m045337; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:00:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from murray) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:00:28 -0800 From: Murray Stokely To: Pierrick Brossin Cc: Christian Brueffer , Eric Anderson , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD segment on TechTV - Friday Mar/14 @ 4pm Message-ID: <20030318000028.S88377@freebsdmall.com> References: <20030313152749.R25592@freebsdmall.com> <3E711512.4070505@centtech.com> <20030316015631.GE606@unixpages.org> <20030315181033.I64051@freebsdmall.com> <3E75E5FF.90603@centtech.com> <20030317210606.GF606@unixpages.org> <1047973174.3e76cd3605fdc@www.swissgeeks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <1047973174.3e76cd3605fdc@www.swissgeeks.com>; from pbrossin@swissgeeks.com on Tue, Mar 18, 2003 at 08:39:34AM +0100 X-GPG-Key-ID: 1024D/0E451F7D X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: E2CA 411D DD44 53FD BB4B 3CB5 B4D7 10A2 0E45 1F7D Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Mar 18, 2003 at 08:39:34AM +0100, Pierrick Brossin wrote: > Here are some of the highlights of release 5.0. We'll discuss all this and more > on the show. > > I know you said it was a segment but do we have chances to see the whole stuff ? > > I live in switzerland and i'm really interested in seeing the whole thing (don't > have techtv round here I assume). That was it. The 5 minutes on that MPG is all the time Matt and I had to talk. After our segment ended, the show cut to commercial, and when the show came back the hosts were standing next to a big BSD daemon (that we ripped off a conference room wall just for the show!) and they thanked the guests for coming and the credits started rolling. We're pushing for a longer segment next time. - Murray To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Mar 18 2:50: 7 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C9737B401 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 02:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from swissgeeks.com (adsl-212-101-16-119.solnet.ch [212.101.16.119]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8E2C943F93 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 02:50:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pbrossin@swissgeeks.com) Received: (qmail 27925 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2003 10:50:01 -0000 Received: from localhost (127.0.0.1) by server.swissgeeks.com (127.0.0.1) with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2003 10:50:01 -0000 Received: from 195.49.31.34 ( [195.49.31.34]) as user pbrossin@localhost by www.swissgeeks.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:50:01 +0100 Message-ID: <1047984601.3e76f9d954e66@www.swissgeeks.com> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:50:01 +0100 From: Pierrick Brossin To: Murray Stokely Cc: Christian Brueffer , Eric Anderson , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD segment on TechTV - Friday Mar/14 @ 4pm References: <20030313152749.R25592@freebsdmall.com> <3E711512.4070505@centtech.com> <20030316015631.GE606@unixpages.org> <20030315181033.I64051@freebsdmall.com> <3E75E5FF.90603@centtech.com> <20030317210606.GF606@unixpages.org> <1047973174.3e76cd3605fdc@www.swissgeeks.com> <20030318000028.S88377@freebsdmall.com> In-Reply-To: <20030318000028.S88377@freebsdmall.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.0 X-Originating-IP: 195.49.31.34 X-Sent-Via: Mitel Networks SME Server Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Quoting Murray Stokely : > That was it. The 5 minutes on that MPG is all the time Matt and I had > to talk. After our segment ended, the show cut to commercial, and > when the show came back the hosts were standing next to a big BSD > daemon (that we ripped off a conference room wall just for the show!) > and they thanked the guests for coming and the credits started > rolling. wow extremely strange :) On their website we can see "We'll discuss all this and more on the show." It was reaaally short then! Anyone it was nice to see you guys on TV :P -- Pierrick Brossin IT Swiss - QUARK Media House 6a Puits Godet, 2000 Neuchatel, Switzerland Tel Prof: +41-327201423 Mobile Priv: +41-794137145 Mail Prof: pbrossin@quark.ch Mail Priv: admin@swissgeeks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Mar 19 6:59:34 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4BA837B407; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:59:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw.cscoms.com (mailgw.cscoms.com [202.183.255.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B14134402B; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:59:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wowwwhealthy@thaimail.com) Received: from cscoms.com (mail.cscoms.com [202.183.255.23]) by mailgw.cscoms.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2JEtYil003788; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:55:34 +0700 (ICT) Received: from ME (dial-255.ras-7.bkk.c.cscoms.com [203.170.141.193]) by cscoms.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h2JEqlwo000954; Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:52:49 +0700 (GMT) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:52:47 +0700 (GMT) Message-Id: <200303191452.h2JEqlwo000954@cscoms.com> From: wowwwhealthy@thaimail.com Subject: ท่านทราบหรือไม่ว่าคนอ้วนจะเสี่ยงต่อการเป็นเบาหวานมากกว่าคนน้ำหนักปกติถึง 30 เท่า X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Reply-To: wowwwhealthy@thaimail.com X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="#MYBOUNDARY#" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) To: undisclosed-recipients: ; Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --#MYBOUNDARY# Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ansi Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit คนไทยกำลังเป็นโรคอ้วนมากขึ้นทุกที พ.อ.หญิง รศ. พ.ญ. พรฑิตา ชัยอำนวย ผู้อำนวยการเวชศาสตร์ฟื้นฟู โรงพยาบาลพระมงกุฏเกล้า บรรยายเรื่อง "กินอย่างไรให้ห่างไกลโรคหัวใจและโรคอ้วน" ในตอนหนึ่งของการบรรยาย ผู้บรรยายกล่าวว่า "สิ่งที่พึงตระหนักคือ ผู้ชายไม่ควรให้รอบเอวเกิน 36 นิ้ว หญิงไม่ควรเกิน 32 นิ้ว ถ้ามากกว่านี้ต้องเร่งลดน้ำหนัก" เพราะถ้าหากท่านวัดรอบเอวแล้วได้ตัวเลขเกินกว่ามาตราฐานนี้ แสดงว่าท่านกำลังเป็นโรคอ้วน คนเป็นโรคอ้วนมีความเสี่ยงที่จะต้อง พบกับโรคร้ายต่างๆ มากมาย นับตั้งแต่ โรคหัวใจ เบาหวาน ไขมันในเลือดสูง ความดันโลหิตสูง อัมพาต และท่านอาจจะหยุดหายใจขณะหลับ จนเกิดภาวะพร่องออกซิเจน ตื่นนอนจะมีอาการมึน เป็นต้อหินง่ายเนื่องจากเลือดขาดออกซิเจน เป็นโรคข้อ เพราะแบกรับน้ำหนักมาก เป็นเกาต์ มะเร็ง นิ่วในถุงน้ำดี มีลูกยาก โรคเกี่ยวกับระบบหายใจ โรคถุงน้ำดี ท่านทราบหรือไม่ว่าคนอ้วนจะเสี่ยงต่อการเป็นเบาหวานมากกว่าคนน้ำหนักปกติถึง 30 เท่า เสี่ยงเป็นโรคหลอดเลือดหัวใจตีบกว่าคนทั่วไป 15 เท่า โรคอัมพาต 11 เท่า โรคมะเร็งลำไส้ 2 เท่า คนเป็นโรคอ้วนเป็นโรคร้ายตายง่ายอย่างนี้ถ้าไม่เรียกคนที่มีรอบเอวเกินมาตราฐานว่า รอบเอวมรณะ แล้วจะเรียกว่าอะไรล่ะครับ วิธีถอดห่วงยาง (ลดเอว) คุณหมอบอกว่า วิธีรักษาโรคอ้วนสามารถทำได้ด้วยการควบคุมแคลอรีของอาหารที่รับประทาน คือพยายามให้ลดลงวันละ 600 แคลอรี ซึ่งภายใน 7 วันท่านจะสามารถลดน้ำหนักได้0.6 กิโลกรัม เพราะไขมัน 1 กิโลกรัม เท่ากับ 7,000 แคลอรี ประการที่สำคัญ ต้องออกกำลังกายอย่างสม่ำเสมอทุกวันครับ อย่างน้อย 20 นาที ถ้าออกกำลังกายได้ 60 นาทีจะยิ่งเป็นผลดี คุณหมอบอกว่าเราควรให้สนใจใฝ่ศึกษาหาความรู้ด้านโภชนาการให้มาก ๆ คือให้ศึกษาว่าอาหารชนิดไหนให้พลังงานน้อย พลังมากแค่ไหน และ ควรสร้างความสุขที่ได้บริโภคอาหารไขมันต่ำ ๆ ในการรับประทานอาหารควรเคี้ยวให้ช้าๆ จะรู้สึกอิ่มทั้งๆ ที่บริโภคน้อย อ้อ ! budpage แนะนำว่าท่านควรซื้อสายวัดมาเก็บไว้สักเส้นนะครับ ทุก ๆ เช้าคอยวัดเอวตัวเอง และควรจดบันทึกเป็นสถิติไว้ทุกวันด้วย สนุกดีครับ อีกทั้งยังเป็นการท้าทายให้เรามีความตื่นตัวที่จะลดความอ้วนอยู่เสมออีกด้วย สุดท้ายนี้ขอให้ทุก ๆ ท่านมีรอบเอวในระดับมาตราฐานที่ปลอดภัยกันทุก ๆ ท่านนะครับ (จบบทความนี้ เวบมาสเตอร์ คงขอตัวไปซื้อสายวัดมาควบคุมน้ำหนักด้วยคนนะครับ สวัสดี ) ขอเชิญชาวพุทธมาช่วยกันระดมความคิดในหัวข้อ "วิธีออกกำลังกายให้สนุก" ลองมาดูกันว่าใครจะมีวิธีการเด็ดๆ ที่จะทำให้คนอ้วนอยากออกกำลังกายโดยไม่ฝืนใจกันบ้าง แล้วพบกันใหม่กับเอกสารสาระที่มีประโยชน์ฉบับหน้าค่ะ ***************************************************************** ถ้าท่านต้องการข้อมูลที่มีประโยชน์ในด้านโภชนาการเพื่อสุขภาพที่แข็งแรง หรือต้องการลดน้ำหนักโดยวิธีธรรมชาติ สามารถขอข้อมูลได้จาก ... http://www.geocities.com/healthclub999/easythin ***************************************************************** หากไม่ต้องการรับข้อมูลข่าวสารอีก กรุณาเข้าไปแจ้งที่ www.unsubhealthclub.web1000.com --#MYBOUNDARY#-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Mar 21 8:36:38 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95CB437B401 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:36:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw.cscoms.com (mailgw.cscoms.com [202.183.255.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A2743F75 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:36:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from FreeBooklet@thaimail.com) Received: from cscoms.com (mail.cscoms.com [202.183.255.23]) by mailgw.cscoms.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2LGZKET032202; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 23:35:34 +0700 (ICT) Received: from ME (dial-49.ras-7.bkk.c.cscoms.com [203.170.129.49]) by cscoms.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id h2LGV4wo017061; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 23:31:07 +0700 (GMT) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 23:31:04 +0700 (GMT) Message-Id: <200303211631.h2LGV4wo017061@cscoms.com> From: FreeBooklet@thaimail.com Subject: แจกฟรี ! หนังสือคู่มือคนเคยจน สำหรับผู้สนใจ.... X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Reply-To: FreeBooklet@thaimail.com X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="#MYBOUNDARY#" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) To: undisclosed-recipients: ; Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --#MYBOUNDARY# Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ansi Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>>>ทำงานที่ยากที่สุดก่อน >>>> >>ผมยิ่งมีชีวิตอยู่นานเท่าไหร่ ผมยิ่งมั่นใจมากขึ้นเท่านั้น >>ว่าความแตกต่างอันยิ่งใหญ่ระหว่างมนุษย์... >>ระหว่าคนที่อ่อนแอและคนทีอำนาจ....... >>ระหว่างคนที่ยิ่งใหญ่และคนที่ไม่สำคัญ ก็คือ >>เรี่ยวแรงของ....ความตั้งใจแน่วแน่ที่ไม่อาจทำลายได้.... >>จุดประสงค์ที่เมื่อตั้งขึ้นแล้ว ถ้าไม่ตายก็ต้องชนะ >>-เซอร์โธมัส ฟาวเวล บั๊กซ์ตัน >>หนึ่งในเทคนิคที่ดีที่สุดในการเอาชนะนิสัยผัดวันประกันพรุ่ง >>และทำงานได้มากขึ้นและเร็วขึ้นก็คือลงมือทำงานที่ยากที่สุดของคุณก่อน >>นี่คือการ " กินกบของคุณ " ที่แท้จริง มันเป็นทักษะส่วนบุคคลในการบริหาร >>ที่ยากที่สุดและสำคัญที่สุดเริ่มต้นตอนเช้าด้วยงานที่ใหญ่ที่สุดและสำคัญที่สุด >>คือ สิ่งตรงข้ามกับที่คนส่วนใหญ่ทำ ระเบียบวินัยนี้จะทำให้คุณเลิกนิสัย ผัดวัน >>ประกันพรุ่งและทำให้อนาคตอยู่ในกำมือคุณ >>>>>>>>การเริ่มต้นแต่ละวันด้วยงานที่ยากที่สุดเป็นการเริ่มต้นแบบก้าวกระโดด >>ที่ดี คุณจะมีไฟมากขึ้น และจะทำงานได้ผลดีมากขึ้น >>>>>>>>ในวันที่คุณเริ่มลงมือทำงานสำคัญโดยทันทีทันควัน คุณจะรู้สึกดีกับตัว >>คุณเองและกับงานของคุณมากกว่าคนอื่นๆ คุณจะรู้สึกมีอำนาจมากขึ้น ควบคุม >>ตัวเองได้มากขึ้นและรับผิดชอบดูแลชีวิตตัวเองได้มากกว่าเวลาอื่น >>>>>>>สร้างนิสัยเริ่มทำงานที่ยากที่สุดก่อนแล้วคุณจะไม่ต้องมองย้อนกลับ >>คุณจะกลายเป็น หนึ่งในคนที่มีประสิทธิภาพมากที่สุดในคนรุ่นคุณ............... >>กินกบตัวนั้นซะ!!! จงมองตัวเองว่าเป็นงานที่กำลังคืบหน้า จงเทใจให้กับการเพาะนิสัย >>เป็นคนมีผลงานสูงด้วยการฝึกซ้ำแล้วซ้ำเล่าจนกระทั่งมันกลายเป็นเรื่องอัตโนมัติและ >>กลายเป็นเรื่องง่าย >>>>>>>>หนึ่งในวลีที่มีอนุภาพมากที่สุดซึ่งคุณสามารถเรียนรู้และนำมาใช้ได้ก็คือ >>" เพื่อวันนี้เท่านั้น! "อย่าวิตกเรื่องการเปลี่ยนแปลงชีวิตตัวเอง ถ้ามันฟังเหมือนเป็น >>ความคิดที่ดี จงทำมัน" เพื่อวันนี้เท่านั้น" >>>>>>>>บอกกับตัวเองว่า " เพื่อวันนี้เท่านั้น ฉันจะวางแผนเตรียมการ และเริ่มต้นงาน >>ที่ยากที่สุดก่อนจะทำอย่างอื่น "แล้วคุณจะต้องทึ่งกับความแตกต่างที่เกิดขึ้นในชีวิตคุณ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- คุณ พร้อมแล้วรึยัง กับรูปแบบการทำงานง่ายๆจากที่บ้าน Click Here! www.geocities.com/thaigetrich/easywork , หรือ Tel. 0-2277-7850 กด 25 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ขออภัยหากเป็นการรบกวน และหากไม่ต้องการให้ส่งข่าวสารมายังท่านอีก กรุณาเมลล์มาที่ easywork@maildozy.com หัวข้อ unsub --#MYBOUNDARY#-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Mar 21 21:43:26 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9458B37B404 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 21:43:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from pu.net (12-237-141-148.client.attbi.com [12.237.141.148]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88A1843F93 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 21:43:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bugs@pu.net) Received: (from bugs@localhost) by pu.net (8.12.8/8.11.6) id h2M5hHPA051483 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 23:43:17 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from bugs) From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <200303220543.h2M5hHPA051483@pu.net> Subject: New RedHat update/support policy and impact on BSD To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 23:43:13 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I don't know if many people here are following what RedHat is in the process of doing. Lately they've been tightening up on the demo accounts that you can use to automatically download updates. They allow extensions to the demo accounts but the "load is too high" to allow the automatic download of updates - "please sign up for a paid account to access updates on a priority basis". If you know how to do grab updates manually it can still be done without too much trouble - for the time being. Apparently they have also changed their pricing of this support/update service to be around $179 per system for 5 years. For some sites with a large number of systems this is quite a hit even if it does provide 5 years of service. Its a big hit up front and speaking as a biased BSD guy I can say its not clear that RedHat will even be around for 5 years. Anyway I was lucky enough to listen to a conversation in a meeting today where this was discussed. People were considering switching to another "distro" (heh) and someone even mentioned switching to FreeBSD as a possibility which caused me to perk up and pay even more attention. It might be a good idea for advocacy types to pay attention to this as it unfolds. This might be similar to the airlines when they do a price increase. One will tiptoe out and do it. If others follow suit then others will increase prices and a new defacto price level is established. If others do not follow the airline that tiptoed out first has to back off because customers switch to other airlines. If other "distros" do not go down the road RedHat is heading many current RedHat sites will decide to go through the pain of switching to one of the other "distros". Some of them may decide to try BSD as an option. If all the other "distros" decide to make big bucks charging for security updates then more sites may try BSD. FYI! Oh I hate that word distro don't you? Later Mark Hittinger bugs@pu.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message