From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 03:08:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A992016A4B3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from razor.kraksystem.pl (razor.kraksystem.pl [217.97.202.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 919A243FF5 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:08:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ftyczka@ftyczka.org) Received: from h1-13.krak ([192.168.1.13] helo=ftyczka.org) by razor.kraksystem.pl with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A3YTR-0005EP-00 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:08:17 +0200 Message-ID: <3F76B316.5090607@ftyczka.org> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:08:22 +0200 From: ftyczka User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: pl, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <3F761179.5010600@pacbell.net> In-Reply-To: <3F761179.5010600@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Converting Linux Users X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:08:19 -0000 Daniel Rudy wrote: >Hello, > > I've been around trying to convert Linux users to FreeBSD. It seems >that the primary objection to FreeBSD is that their software won't run. > I explain to them about the Linux, SVR4, and IBNSC2 ABIs. Their next >argument is what about RPMs? I explain the package system and ports >system to them. It seems that many Linux users don't know a whole lot >about FreeBSD. I say we go on a campain to educate them. > > I guess the best way to convince them is to show them the uniformity of the system. Whether it's my computer, my friend's or any other FreeBSD box it is the SAME system, it feels the same way, and it works the same way. Unlike Linux, where I have to check where the config files are located each time I roam to another box. Apart from that - FreeBSD IS UNIX. Linux is NOT. It's just something made to work the same way. When I first heard of FreeBSD I though that it is a nice idea, but I was kinda scared of whether I would be able to switch easily - after a while with FreeBSD, I never looked at Linux again. And I don't think I ever will. ;) From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 09:24:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E7B716A4B3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56E944003 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:24:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8SGO47R036409 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:24:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)h8SGO31a036382 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:24:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:24:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:24:35 -0000 A little while ago, my slides from the BSDCon FreeBSD BoF, including the "FreeBSD is not dying" section were submitted to Slashdot, and apparently dropped. For those interested, the slides are at: http://www.watson.org/~robert/freebsd/20030910-bsdbof/ These include a copy of the netcraft growth chart, graphs for commit rates, features, etc. I ran the stats for the BoF to try and get an accurate picture of the direction the project was going in, and understand how our agressive release schedule impacts releases. The results were fascinating -- the bumpiness of the graph is just one of the artifacts of the release schedule. In any case, I thought the results were interesting, and I think it's a shame the editors of Slashdot felt that this material wasn't appropriate for their forum... Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 09:29:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67D216A4B3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thor.65535.net (thor.65535.net [216.17.104.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C46E43FF3; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:29:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rghf@fsck.me.uk) Received: from jvds.demon.co.uk ([212.228.151.253] helo=bitch.localdomain) by thor.65535.net with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A3eOw-00031E-4W; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:28:02 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:31:39 +0100 (BST) From: Rus Foster X-X-Sender: rghf@bitch.localdomain To: Robert Watson In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:29:48 -0000 > A little while ago, my slides from the BSDCon FreeBSD BoF, including the > "FreeBSD is not dying" section were submitted to Slashdot, and apparently > dropped. For those interested, the slides are at: > > http://www.watson.org/~robert/freebsd/20030910-bsdbof/ > > These include a copy of the netcraft growth chart, graphs for commit > rates, features, etc. I ran the stats for the BoF to try and get an > accurate picture of the direction the project was going in, and understand > how our agressive release schedule impacts releases. The results were > fascinating -- the bumpiness of the graph is just one of the artifacts of > the release schedule. > It is a shame as its a rumour that is taken as truth when BSD is still growing. A recent magazine article here in the UK in "Linux Format" was quoted as saying that most people go to BSD after Linux. Now I'm not sure if that is true or not. However as fun little aside today Slashdot posted a "Linux is Dying" type article from the results of the recent Netcraft survey Rus -- w: http://www.jvds.com | Free Debian UNIX Shell Accounts e: rghf@jvds.com | http://www.jvds.com/freeshells t: +44 7919 373537 | t: 1-888-327-6330 | email: sales@jvds.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 12:00:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1F2A16A4C3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.224.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA4144027 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-advocacy@m.gmane.org) Received: from root by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A3gme-0003b6-00 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:00:40 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sea.gmane.org ([80.91.224.252]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A3gSI-0003PM-00 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:39:38 +0200 Received: from news by sea.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A3gSI-0003Nb-00 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:39:38 +0200 From: "William Henny" Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:39:38 +0000 (UTC) Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (NetBSD) Sender: news Subject: Re: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:00:44 -0000 On 2003-09-28, Robert Watson wrote: > > > http://www.watson.org/~robert/freebsd/20030910-bsdbof/ > > These include a copy of the netcraft growth chart Are these numbers publicly available anywhere? From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 12:17:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C8816A4B3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thuis.piwebs.com (217-19-20-186.dsl.cambrium.nl [217.19.20.186]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 977CD44005 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:17:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 47145 invoked by uid 85); 28 Sep 2003 19:17:14 -0000 Received: from avleeuwen@piwebs.com by thuis.piwebs.com by uid 82 with qmail-scanner-1.20rc1 (uvscan: v4.2.40/v4288. Clear:RC:1:. Processed in 0.064754 secs); 28 Sep 2003 19:17:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO 192.168.0.109) (192.168.0.109) by 0 with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 19:17:14 -0000 From: Arjan van Leeuwen To: "William Henny" , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:17:01 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200309282117.01642.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Subject: Re: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:17:07 -0000 On Sunday 28 September 2003 20:39, William Henny wrote: > On 2003-09-28, Robert Watson wrote: > > http://www.watson.org/~robert/freebsd/20030910-bsdbof/ > > > > These include a copy of the netcraft growth chart > > Are these numbers publicly available anywhere? Yes, here: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/07/12/ nearly_2_million_active_sites_running_freebsd.html Arjan From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 12:29:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D38A16A4B3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from users.757.org (users.757.org [216.54.62.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3DDD43FE0 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:29:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from telmnstr@757.org) Received: from users.757.org (telmnstr@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by users.757.org (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h8SJQVWM083207 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:26:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from telmnstr@757.org) Received: from localhost (telmnstr@localhost) by users.757.org (8.12.9/8.12.5/Submit) with ESMTP id h8SJQVKN083204 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:26:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: users.757.org: telmnstr owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:26:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Ethan Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030928152441.S83167-100000@users.757.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Swag... new choices? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:29:06 -0000 Long time BSD user (mostly FreeBSD and OpenBSD). OpenBSD team has some great swag: posters and shirts. Has FreeBSD mall considered new shirts? Even the same designs on different colors. Also some posters would be nice -- We hang them in our office. I could print stuff on a plotter but it wouldn't be the same as a professionally printed poster. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 12:31:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 392B916A4B3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1EED54402A for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:31:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 7369 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Sep 2003 21:27:28 -0000 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:27:28 +0000 From: Michal Pasternak To: Arjan van Leeuwen Message-ID: <20030928212728.GA7348@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Mail-Followup-To: Arjan van Leeuwen , William Henny , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <200309282117.01642.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200309282117.01642.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: William Henny Subject: Re: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michal Pasternak List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:31:11 -0000 Arjan van Leeuwen [Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 09:17:01PM +0200]: > On Sunday 28 September 2003 20:39, William Henny wrote: > > On 2003-09-28, Robert Watson wrote: > > > http://www.watson.org/~robert/freebsd/20030910-bsdbof/ > > > > > > These include a copy of the netcraft growth chart > > > > Are these numbers publicly available anywhere? > > Yes, here: > > http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/07/12/ > nearly_2_million_active_sites_running_freebsd.html Everyone should also check http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/09/01/most_reliable_and_fastest_hosting_company_sites_during_august.html - 1 of 2 hosts in the first 10 runs BSD -- Michal Pasternak :: http://pasternak.w.lub.pl Resistance isn't futile, it's voltage divided by amperage From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 14:05:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCED516A4B3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5ACF44001 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:05:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: by fubar.adept.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id BACD81522D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B60D915227 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:05:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Hoskins To: advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20030928212728.GA7348@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Message-ID: <20030928135649.T92057@fubar.adept.org> References: <200309282117.01642.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> <20030928212728.GA7348@pasternak.w.lub.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:05:14 -0000 On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Michal Pasternak wrote: > Everyone should also check > http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/09/01/most_reliable_and_fastest_hosting_company_sites_during_august.html that's great and all, but let's face it... even as a loyal BSD bigot, i know a lot of those uptime numbers are also related to the fact that many companies have "load balancers" with large server farms... so "detecting a failure" isn't quite what it sounds like. (BTW, i just checked and ~3-4 out of the top 10 sites with the highest uptimes were BSD; one Linux, one Win2k, one Solaris 8... the stats change a lot.) but we all know that... and the netcraft results are interesting nonetheless. i think too many people become obsessed with uptime though. i can load a desktop machine with just about any OS but Windows, stick it in a colo, have it do very little, and it'll have "high uptime". what does that mean really? nothing. it may look good on netcraft stats pages, but that's about it. i think most real sysadmins are focussed more on overall stability (which certainly ties into uptime), security and ease of management a lot more than uptime alone. after all, in today's world, if you're following a sane patch/test/deploy schedule for your production site, uptimes for individual boxes will likely be limited to 1-3 months (that's my experience with BSD, Linux, Solaris and Windoze). it is funny though... you'd think slashdot rumor mill types would at least try to start rumors that aren't so easily disproven by well known and reasonably trusted sites. -mrh -- From: "Spam Catcher" To: spam-catcher@adept.org Do NOT send email to the address listed above or you will be added to a blacklist! From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 15:31:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8812916A4B3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ED5E643FE9 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:31:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 8378 invoked by uid 1000); 29 Sep 2003 00:27:44 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:27:44 +0000 From: Michal Pasternak To: Mike Hoskins Message-ID: <20030929002744.GB8240@pasternak.w.lub.pl> References: <200309282117.01642.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> <20030928212728.GA7348@pasternak.w.lub.pl> <20030928135649.T92057@fubar.adept.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030928135649.T92057@fubar.adept.org> cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michal Pasternak List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:31:26 -0000 Mike Hoskins [Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 02:05:13PM -0700]: > On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Michal Pasternak wrote: > > Everyone should also check > > http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/09/01/most_reliable_and_fastest_hosting_company_sites_during_august.html [...]> > but we all know that... and the netcraft results are interesting > nonetheless. i think too many people become obsessed with uptime though. > i can load a desktop machine with just about any OS but Windows, stick it > in a colo, have it do very little, and it'll have "high uptime". what > does that mean really? Well, just make sure to click each domain and see, what do the guys behind it really do ;) I am perfectly sure, that their boxes work quite much everyday. -- Michal Pasternak :: http://pasternak.w.lub.pl Resistance isn't futile, it's voltage divided by amperage From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 15:51:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4323716A4BF for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.224.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B65044005 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:51:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-advocacy@m.gmane.org) Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A3kOK-0005dn-00 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:51:48 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sea.gmane.org ([80.91.224.252]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A3kOJ-0005dd-00 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:51:47 +0200 Received: from news by sea.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A3kOJ-000692-00 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:51:47 +0200 From: "William Henny" Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:51:47 +0000 (UTC) Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <200309282117.01642.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (NetBSD) Sender: news Subject: Re: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:51:53 -0000 On 2003-09-28, Arjan van Leeuwen wrote: > On Sunday 28 September 2003 20:39, William Henny wrote: >> On 2003-09-28, Robert Watson wrote: >> > http://www.watson.org/~robert/freebsd/20030910-bsdbof/ >> > >> > These include a copy of the netcraft growth chart >> >> Are these numbers publicly available anywhere? > > Yes, here: > > http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/07/12/ > nearly_2_million_active_sites_running_freebsd.html Ah yes, now I remember. But I was really wondering if Netcraft has published a more complete survey that is more up-to-date than this: http://www.netcraft.com/survey/index-200109.html#computers From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 19:34:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B511916A4B3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 296BE44005 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:34:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: by fubar.adept.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1E56F1522D; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7C815227 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:34:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Hoskins To: advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20030929002744.GB8240@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Message-ID: <20030928192758.J74590@fubar.adept.org> References: <200309282117.01642.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> <20030928135649.T92057@fubar.adept.org> <20030929002744.GB8240@pasternak.w.lub.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:34:14 -0000 On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Michal Pasternak wrote: > Well, just make sure to click each domain and see, what do the guys behind > it really do ;) I am perfectly sure, that their boxes work quite much > everyday. that's what the load balancer bit refered to... my point was there are lots of technologies out there that can make a given URI look highly available without having anything much at all to do with the underlying operating system of the hosts themselves. i'm a BSD fan, and we do quite well in the stats... that's good, and i'm glad to see it. i'm just pointing out that "uptime" alone can give results that don't really say much about the site's OS of choice. big sites like Dell and M$ run mostly IIS installs these days... they don't achieve uptime (from a user's or netcraft's perspective) due to the merits of their OS/product. -mrh -- From: "Spam Catcher" To: spam-catcher@adept.org Do NOT send email to the address listed above or you will be added to a blacklist! From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 20:19:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1682F16A4B3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 535874400F for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:19:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 11455 invoked by uid 1000); 29 Sep 2003 05:16:02 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:16:02 +0000 From: Michal Pasternak To: Mike Hoskins Message-ID: <20030929051602.GA11383@pasternak.w.lub.pl> References: <200309282117.01642.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> <20030928135649.T92057@fubar.adept.org> <20030929002744.GB8240@pasternak.w.lub.pl> <20030928192758.J74590@fubar.adept.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030928192758.J74590@fubar.adept.org> cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michal Pasternak List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 03:19:49 -0000 Mike Hoskins [Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 07:34:14PM -0700]: > i'm a BSD fan, and we do quite well in the stats... that's good, and i'm > glad to see it. i'm just pointing out that "uptime" alone can give Good that you pointed that out. In my opinion OS advocates can _not_ be zealots. The BSD world needs as much appreciation as criticism these days. -- m From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 28 20:57:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4715316A4B3 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41B174400F for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:57:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8T3v67R088136; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:57:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)h8T3v6d2088133; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:57:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:57:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Mike Hoskins In-Reply-To: <20030928192758.J74590@fubar.adept.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 03:57:40 -0000 On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Mike Hoskins wrote: > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Michal Pasternak wrote: > > Well, just make sure to click each domain and see, what do the guys behind > > it really do ;) I am perfectly sure, that their boxes work quite much > > everyday. > > that's what the load balancer bit refered to... my point was there are > lots of technologies out there that can make a given URI look highly > available without having anything much at all to do with the underlying > operating system of the hosts themselves. > > i'm a BSD fan, and we do quite well in the stats... that's good, and > i'm glad to see it. i'm just pointing out that "uptime" alone can give > results that don't really say much about the site's OS of choice. big > sites like Dell and M$ run mostly IIS installs these days... they don't > achieve uptime (from a user's or netcraft's perspective) due to the > merits of their OS/product. I'm actually far less interested in the "uptime" stats than in the "number of host" stats -- an area where load balancers hurt numbers rather than helping :-). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 29 00:36:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25B2716A4B3 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 96CF344037 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:36:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 12710 invoked by uid 1000); 29 Sep 2003 09:33:10 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:33:10 +0000 From: Michal Pasternak To: Robert Watson Message-ID: <20030929093310.GA12688@pasternak.w.lub.pl> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michal Pasternak List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:36:57 -0000 Robert Watson [Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 12:24:03PM -0400]: > In any case, I thought the results were interesting, and I think it's a > shame the editors of Slashdot felt that this material wasn't appropriate > for their forum... I seldom visit Slashdot, I saw it up a while ago. No wonder they didn't publish your material - they're too busy posting questions about MUD clients... Other OPN's site is newsforge.com. Maybe you should try there? -- m From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 29 09:28:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF30716A4B3 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10103.mail.yahoo.com (web10103.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.53]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C1CC43FBD for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:28:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twigles@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030929162808.41655.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.5.49.41] by web10103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:28:08 PDT Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:28:08 -0700 (PDT) From: twig les To: Mick Ireland , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1064669876.5aee8e20michael.ireland@myrealbox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:28:08 -0000 I just bought a "Daemon Xing" shirt at Toorcon and me and the guy selling the shirts had a good laugh at slashdot's expense. It's too bad a site with so much interesting stuff is so biased in it's stories despite the fact that we have about 95% in common with the Linux ppl. The trolls make the comments almost not worth reading. --- Mick Ireland wrote: > Greetings !!! > > I sent away for a book, FreeBSD - The Complete Reference, to > help > me understand more about this OS, from an Internet site. > > No problems, got the book all okay, and there was everything I > wanted - > except that I was given a "Powered by Linux" computer badge !! > > So, I sent back an e-mail, thanking them for their prompt > service > and also a snide remark about their penguin badge : > > "G'day !!! > > > "Just want to let you know that my parcel FreeBSD - The > Complete Reference > - has arrived and all in one piece too. :-) > > > "Though why you would send me a Linux badge .... ;-)" > > I got this as their response : > > "We did send you a Linux badge because we heard rumours that > BSD is dying. We want you to be aware of any close > alternatives in case > death is imminent." > > Now, is that rumour still making the rounds ?? I mean, if it > was only the > people on these lists that are the only users of FreeBSD > forever, it will > still last longer than BeOS and such !!! > > As such, I do not know whether to be amused or annoyed by > their reponse ! > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * * * * * * > Thank you, > > Bro. Michael Ireland, Australia. > > "Yes, the Jews are to be put next to the Arabs - I am sure > they > have a lot to talk about." > -- The Devil sorting out seating arrangements. > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ===== ----------------------------------------------------------- Get a taste of Religion ... eat a priest! ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 29 10:03:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B832716A4B3 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3EE344032 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:03:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-120.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.120]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h8TH3Svd056733; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:03:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:03:10 -0400 From: Tom Rhodes To: twig les Message-Id: <20030929130310.70b30120.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20030929162808.41655.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> References: <1064669876.5aee8e20michael.ireland@myrealbox.com> <20030929162808.41655.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.3claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:03:35 -0000 On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:28:08 -0700 (PDT) twig les wrote: > I just bought a "Daemon Xing" shirt at Toorcon and me and the > guy selling the shirts had a good laugh at slashdot's expense. > It's too bad a site with so much interesting stuff is so biased > in it's stories despite the fact that we have about 95% in > common with the Linux ppl. The trolls make the comments almost > not worth reading. > I'm perhaps really going to hear it now, but I think slashdot sucks and has minimal value at best. The sad part is, subtract the trolls and the more 'ignorance' prone users, and it would be a wonderful site. Note, I'm not saying you're an ass if you read it or are signed up, I'm just stating my opinon that it has to many assholes on it. -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 29 22:50:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F8B16A4B3; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (ms-2.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1050644001; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:50:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from r220-1 (r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.31]) by ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HM00076RIT5VW@ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de>; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:48:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: from relay.RWTH-Aachen.DE ([134.130.3.1]) by r220-1 (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:48:40 +0200 (MEST) Received: from haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (mulzirak.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.149]) h8U5mesU021856; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:48:40 +0200 (MEST) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) by haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FCFA2F; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:48:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DEDD04679; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:48:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:48:36 +0200 From: Christian Brueffer In-reply-to: <20030929130310.70b30120.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> To: Tom Rhodes Message-id: <20030930054836.GP31340@unixpages.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary=Y51z1SGMnxVzkhDv; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D References: <1064669876.5aee8e20michael.ireland@myrealbox.com> <20030929162808.41655.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> <20030929130310.70b30120.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:50:54 -0000 --Y51z1SGMnxVzkhDv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 01:03:10PM -0400, Tom Rhodes wrote: > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:28:08 -0700 (PDT) > twig les wrote: >=20 > > I just bought a "Daemon Xing" shirt at Toorcon and me and the > > guy selling the shirts had a good laugh at slashdot's expense.=20 > > It's too bad a site with so much interesting stuff is so biased > > in it's stories despite the fact that we have about 95% in > > common with the Linux ppl. The trolls make the comments almost > > not worth reading. > >=20 >=20 > I'm perhaps really going to hear it now, but I think slashdot sucks > and has minimal value at best. The sad part is, subtract the trolls > and the more 'ignorance' prone users, and it would be a wonderful > site. >=20 > Note, I'm not saying you're an ass if you read it or are signed > up, I'm just stating my opinon that it has to many assholes on it. >=20 Sometimes it can be fun though. Take this unofficial gentoo faq for example (picked up from a slashdot comment). http://unixpages.org/files/gentoo.txt Pretty amusing IMHO :-) - Christian --=20 Christian Brueffer chris@unixpages.org brueffer@FreeBSD.org GPG Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D --Y51z1SGMnxVzkhDv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/eRk0bHYXjKDtmC0RAlE7AKD0fEEmBoKTvSNJetCsJIICx9MASACcCoGr uWTvFQjxpZN8IMzebrVKEko= =rpXb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Y51z1SGMnxVzkhDv-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 30 17:40:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D91A16A4B3 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F31EF43FB1 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:40:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@zer0.org) Received: by mail1.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B340E239A01; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:40:27 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: twig les Message-ID: <20031001004027.GB501@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <1064669876.5aee8e20michael.ireland@myrealbox.com> <20030929162808.41655.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lEGEL1/lMxI0MVQ2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030929162808.41655.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> Organization: Zer0 X-Purpose: For great justice! Mail-Copies-To: poster X-PGP-Fingerprint: D161 E4EA 4BFA 2427 F3F9 5B1F 2015 31D5 845D FEDD X-PGP-Key: http://zer0.org/~gsutter/gsutter.pgp X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:40:29 -0000 --lEGEL1/lMxI0MVQ2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2003-09-29 09:28 -0700, twig les wrote: > I just bought a "Daemon Xing" shirt at Toorcon and me and the > guy selling the shirts had a good laugh at slashdot's expense.=20 > It's too bad a site with so much interesting stuff is so biased > in it's stories despite the fact that we have about 95% in > common with the Linux ppl. The trolls make the comments almost > not worth reading. "Almost"? :) Enjoy your Daemon Xing T-Shirt! Greg --=20 Gregory S. Sutter Computing is a terminal addiction. mailto:gsutter@zer0.org=20 http://zer0.org/~gsutter/=20 --lEGEL1/lMxI0MVQ2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQE/eiJ7IBUx1YRd/t0RAnDDAJwJjkUlU1Z5/nkFaqeetUWAQRy0oQCfUtmZ tfAh1YQXa4VW/NwYDBEEvi8= =/Ixa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lEGEL1/lMxI0MVQ2-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 1 14:53:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2FB716A4B3 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from digiflux.org (43.Red-80-59-151.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.59.151.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D0143FAF for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:53:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Received: from digiflux.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by digiflux.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h91LqMZG040855 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:52:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by digiflux.org (8.12.9/8.12.8/Submit) id h91LqMV6040854; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:52:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:52:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200310012152.h91LqMV6040854@digiflux.org> X-Authentication-Warning: digiflux.org: www set sender to olivas@digiflux.org using -f To: advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from 10.0.0.56 (auth. user olivas@localhost) by digiflux.org with HTTP; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 22:52:22 +0100 X-IlohaMail-Blah: olivas@localhost X-IlohaMail-Method: mail() [mem] X-IlohaMail-Dummy: moo X-Mailer: IlohaMail/0.7.11 (On: digiflux.org) From: "Stacy Olivas" Bounce-To: "Stacy Olivas" Errors-To: "Stacy Olivas" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Fwd: Re: [WarBSD]WarBSD Mirror on Eurisko.ws X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:53:04 -0000 Heads up. I'm actually doing something with WarBSD after letting it sit around for a few months. =20 -- I've moved the main warbsd distribution site to it's own subdomain - warbsd.eurisko.ws. It makes it available again for download via HTTP only (ftp is still messed up and the hosting service hasn't fixed it -- I doubt they will be able to. Oh well) I also decided to dust off the build scripts I was working on for 0.2. I synchronized my source tree with the latest RELENG_5_0 code and tried the build process. I had to update to NMAP 3.46. =20 It looks like the FreeBSD 5.0-RELEASE-p16 kernel has fixed the error I was encountering with MFS. So, now I am just finishing some stuff up before I announce the release of WarBSD 0.2-p1. There should be an announcement about it here in a bit. -Stacy From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 2 14:31:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B4A16A4D5 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from essence.sdodson.com (66-133-142-242.dr1.tbr.ga.frontiernet.net [66.133.142.242]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B4E643F3F for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:31:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from samy@kerneled.com) Received: from beastie.freebsd.local (dial37-9.sbm.net.sa [212.46.37.9]) by essence.sdodson.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h92LUmpi051208 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:31:00 GMT (envelope-from samy@kerneled.com) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 00:31:47 +0300 From: Samy Al Bahra To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Message-Id: <20031003003147.5101cfd7.samy@kerneled.com> Organization: Kerneled X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5-gtk2-20030906 (GTK+ 2.2.1; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: FreeBSD artwork X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 21:31:07 -0000 I have put up a gallery of some background and splash screen work I worked on (and hopefully others soon). I would like to eventually make this gallery grow into a full-blown multi-developer art project (for FreeBSD's art needs ATL). Anyone interested, step up :) Advocates, take a look at - http://art.kerneled.com/gallery/FreeBSD Some are nice, some are not. Enjoy. -- +-----------------------------------+ | Samy Al Bahra | samy@kerneled.com | |-----------------------------------| | B3A7 F5BE B2AE 67B1 AC4B | | 0983 956D 1F4A AA54 47CB | |-----------------------------------| | http://www.kerneled.com | +-----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 2 14:33:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A10C16A4B3 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from essence.sdodson.com (66-133-142-242.dr1.tbr.ga.frontiernet.net [66.133.142.242]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D7644001 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:33:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from samy@kerneled.com) Received: from beastie.freebsd.local (dial37-9.sbm.net.sa [212.46.37.9]) by essence.sdodson.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h92LXGpi051224 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:33:18 GMT (envelope-from samy@kerneled.com) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 00:34:26 +0300 From: Samy Al Bahra To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Message-Id: <20031003003426.095d2b99.samy@kerneled.com> Organization: Kerneled X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5-gtk2-20030906 (GTK+ 2.2.1; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: FreeBSD artwork X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 21:33:22 -0000 I have put up a gallery of some background and splash screen work I worked on (and hopefully others soon). I would like to eventually make this gallery grow into a full-blown multi-developer art project (for FreeBSD's art needs ATL). Anyone interested, step up :) Advocates, take a look at - http://art.kerneled.com/gallery/FreeBSD Some are nice, some are not. Enjoy. -- +-----------------------------------+ | Samy Al Bahra | samy@kerneled.com | |-----------------------------------| | B3A7 F5BE B2AE 67B1 AC4B | | 0983 956D 1F4A AA54 47CB | |-----------------------------------| | http://www.kerneled.com | +-----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 2 15:03:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E98216A4B3 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:03:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D357443FA3 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: by fubar.adept.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C8BB715227; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7D8A15226 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:03:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Hoskins To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <20031003003426.095d2b99.samy@kerneled.com> Message-ID: <20031002144306.W61264@fubar.adept.org> References: <20031003003426.095d2b99.samy@kerneled.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: FreeBSD artwork X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:03:18 -0000 On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Samy Al Bahra wrote: > Advocates, take a look at - http://art.kerneled.com/gallery/FreeBSD > Some are nice, some are not. Enjoy. kudos! i think they all look nice... this sort of thing is definately good for the "desktop crowd". of course i run a desktop too, but i prefer the more traditional wallpaper... `xsetroot -solid black`. been using that one since olvwm days. ;) -mrh -- From: "Spam Catcher" To: spam-catcher@adept.org Do NOT send email to the address listed above or you will be added to a blacklist! From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 2 15:09:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1FC16A4B3 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from corb.mc.mpls.visi.com (corb.mc.mpls.visi.com [208.42.156.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75E043FE3 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:09:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Bill@AeroVis.com) Received: from AeroVis.com (martinez-host65.dsl.visi.com [208.42.100.65]) by corb.mc.mpls.visi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE0B8260 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:09:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3F7CA231.9070802@AeroVis.com> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:09:53 -0500 From: Bill Bredesen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org References: <20031003003147.5101cfd7.samy@kerneled.com> In-Reply-To: <20031003003147.5101cfd7.samy@kerneled.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: FreeBSD artwork X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:09:57 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:09:57 -0000 Samy Al Bahra wrote: >I have put up a gallery of some background and splash screen work I >worked on (and hopefully others soon). > Speaking as a FreeBSD newbie, I was surprised that there don't seem to be _any_ FreeBSD-related icons that come with it. I made a link in my KDE menu to the FreeBSD handbook, and it just seemed appropriate to use a daemonguy-type icon for it. This isn't on the -newbies list because I'm not asking for help; I just thought it was something that the -advocacy list should think about. Bill ---- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 2 15:10:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44A0C16A4C4 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10102.mail.yahoo.com (web10102.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4507843FF5 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:10:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twigles@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031002221013.41531.qmail@web10102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.5.49.41] by web10102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:10:13 PDT Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:10:13 -0700 (PDT) From: twig les To: Mike Hoskins , advocacy@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <20031002144306.W61264@fubar.adept.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: FreeBSD artwork X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:10:21 -0000 That's what I've always thought until lately...maybe it's a mid-life (errr, late-20s) crisis or something but I'm looking for a sleeker looking desktop than blue gradient windowmaker with default everything xterms sitting there blinking. I think has a lot to do with advocacy actually since my comp science class is all-windows all-the-time and I want to show up with something that proves *nix doesn't have to sacrifice looks for functionality. I already put the bg2 on my desktop...it is a tough crowd in that class. --- Mike Hoskins wrote: > On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Samy Al Bahra wrote: > > Advocates, take a look at - > http://art.kerneled.com/gallery/FreeBSD > > Some are nice, some are not. Enjoy. > > kudos! i think they all look nice... this sort of thing is > definately > good for the "desktop crowd". of course i run a desktop too, > but i prefer > the more traditional wallpaper... `xsetroot -solid black`. > been using > that one since olvwm days. ;) > > -mrh > > -- > From: "Spam Catcher" > To: spam-catcher@adept.org > Do NOT send email to the address listed above or > you will be added to a blacklist! > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ===== ----------------------------------------------------------- Get a taste of Religion ... eat a priest! ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 2 15:31:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B34416A4B3 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (afg.ixsystems.net [206.40.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C4FA43F3F for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:31:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: from knight.ixsystems.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h92MSUQW005937; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:28:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matto@knight.ixsystems.net) Received: (from matto@localhost) by knight.ixsystems.net (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id h92MSUfe005936; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:28:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matto) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:28:30 -0700 From: Matt Olander To: Samy Al Bahra Message-ID: <20031002152830.C94380@knight.ixsystems.net> References: <20031003003147.5101cfd7.samy@kerneled.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20031003003147.5101cfd7.samy@kerneled.com>; from samy@kerneled.com on Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 12:31:47AM +0300 cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD artwork X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:31:18 -0000 On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 12:31:47AM +0300, Samy Al Bahra wrote: > > I have put up a gallery of some background and splash screen work I > worked on (and hopefully others soon). I would like to eventually make > this gallery grow into a full-blown multi-developer art project (for > FreeBSD's art needs ATL). Anyone interested, step up :) > > Advocates, take a look at - http://art.kerneled.com/gallery/FreeBSD > Some are nice, some are not. Enjoy. Samy, those are way cool ;) I went looking for some *bsd based wallpaper and couldn't find much out there except for that flaming freebsd one. these are much appreciated by the guys in our office. thanks, -matt > -- > +-----------------------------------+ > | Samy Al Bahra | samy@kerneled.com | > |-----------------------------------| > | B3A7 F5BE B2AE 67B1 AC4B | > | 0983 956D 1F4A AA54 47CB | > |-----------------------------------| > | http://www.kerneled.com | > +-----------------------------------+ > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Matt Olander (408)943-4100 Phone (408)943-4101 Fax www.offmyserver.com -- "Those who don't read have no advantage over those who can't" -Mark Twain From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 2 20:22:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104DB16A4B3 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4965343FA3 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:22:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h933LxqM029793 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:21:59 -0400 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:24:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: FreeBSD advocacy list Message-ID: <20031002231529.D70966@zoraida.natserv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Time to learn basic for experience person? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 03:22:01 -0000 Have a good friend that inheritted 3 FreeBSD servers. He is considering to change the OS because of the lack of in-house knowlege. I am thinking on offering to go to their office and show him and his team the basics. Their background is Novell Netware and Windows 2K. Any guestimate how much time I should ask of them? They are 4, including my friend; I believe they are all senior network admins. I think the first time would be just to give them a tour and show them where things are stored and some of the basic commands and files they would need to know. Tonight I could not talk much with him because he came for a a dinner with my wife and sister in law and they looked at me very mean when I talked computers... :-) In the mean time I lent him my copy of the Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 3 01:22:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3982A16A4B3 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 01:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rambo.401.cx (rambo.401.cx [80.65.205.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E73EB43FEC for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 01:22:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from 401.cx (132.dairy.twenty4help.se [80.65.195.132]) by rambo.401.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h938Mccx022358; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:22:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <3F7D31C9.6010901@401.cx> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:22:33 +0200 From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Samy Al Bahra References: <20031003003147.5101cfd7.samy@kerneled.com> In-Reply-To: <20031003003147.5101cfd7.samy@kerneled.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD artwork X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:22:42 -0000 Samy Al Bahra wrote: > I have put up a gallery of some background and splash screen work I > worked on (and hopefully others soon). I would like to eventually make > this gallery grow into a full-blown multi-developer art project (for > FreeBSD's art needs ATL). Anyone interested, step up :) > > Advocates, take a look at - http://art.kerneled.com/gallery/FreeBSD > Some are nice, some are not. Enjoy. > -- Way cool! Maybe implement a function where users could upload or submit their own artwork? Im sure the gallery would grow rapidly just as soon as people started to notice the site. -- R From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 3 01:56:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D38716A4B3 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 01:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amsfep11-int.chello.nl (amsfep11-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7E8943FE1 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 01:56:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.142.207]) by amsfep11-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with ESMTP id <20031003085615.FSYU3404.amsfep11-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:56:15 +0200 Message-ID: <3F7D3950.3000506@sitetronics.com> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:54:40 +0200 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030820 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg References: <20031003003147.5101cfd7.samy@kerneled.com> <3F7D31C9.6010901@401.cx> In-Reply-To: <3F7D31C9.6010901@401.cx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD artwork X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:56:18 -0000 http://www.eldemonio.org/galarte.php (note -- the bottom portion is not really safe for viewing at work ;)) --Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 3 05:20:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E1E16A4B3 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from essence.sdodson.com (66-133-142-242.dr1.tbr.ga.frontiernet.net [66.133.142.242]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1146643FDD for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 05:20:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from samy@kerneled.com) Received: from beastie.freebsd.local (dial37-12.sbm.net.sa [212.46.37.12]) by essence.sdodson.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h93CKYpi055087; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:20:36 GMT (envelope-from samy@kerneled.com) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:21:39 +0300 From: Samy Al Bahra To: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" Message-Id: <20031003152139.516457e7.samy@kerneled.com> In-Reply-To: <3F7D31C9.6010901@401.cx> References: <20031003003147.5101cfd7.samy@kerneled.com> <3F7D31C9.6010901@401.cx> Organization: Kerneled X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5-gtk2-20030906 (GTK+ 2.2.1; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD artwork X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 12:20:49 -0000 On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:22:33 +0200 "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" wrote: > Maybe implement a function where users could upload or submit their > own artwork? Im sure the gallery would grow rapidly just as soon as > people started to notice the site. gallery already has the constructs for this. The fact is, I can't trust people with anonymous access to the gallery unless I am ready to moderate the new found abuse. Artists interested in adding their artwork should e-mail me, I will give them access after I see some of their work. Spread the word :) -- +-----------------------------------+ | Samy Al Bahra | samy@kerneled.com | |-----------------------------------| | B3A7 F5BE B2AE 67B1 AC4B | | 0983 956D 1F4A AA54 47CB | |-----------------------------------| | http://www.kerneled.com | +-----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 3 07:33:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D621016A4C4 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postmanpat.isu.mmu.ac.uk (postmanpat.isu.mmu.ac.uk [149.170.192.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 195C24401F for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:33:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from p.robinson@mmu.ac.uk) Received: from agena.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.168.195]) by postmanpat.isu.mmu.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1A5Qzo-0001jS-00; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:33:28 +0100 Received: from MMU-HSS-AGENA/SpoolDir by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48); 3 Oct 03 15:33:28 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by MMU-HSS-AGENA (Mercury 1.48); 3 Oct 03 15:33:02 +0100 Received: from PRGMMITER (149.170.101.200) by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; 3 Oct 03 15:32:59 +0100 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "'Ethan'" Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:32:59 +0100 Message-ID: <002c01c389bb$3e632340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20030928152441.S83167-100000@users.757.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Swag... new choices? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:33:55 -0000 > Long time BSD user (mostly FreeBSD and OpenBSD). > > OpenBSD team has some great swag: posters and shirts. Ahhh, but they have completely free use of their puffy fish mascot and a bunch of talented guys producing original artwork, music, the whole lot. We have more developers and fewer artists, and a mascot we don't really own. That makes it difficult to produce a wide range of artwork. When was the last time you saw Beastie in 2D in any position other than standing facing to our left? > Has FreeBSD mall considered new shirts? Even the same designs > on different > colors. Perhaps a competition of some sort? I think it also might be an idea to get some distributors further afield than FreeBSD mall - I've had genuinly AWFUL experiences with them, and a lot of people don't want to deal with them. Plus, in Europe, there are plenty of distributors prepared to handle this side of the Atlantic. The real problem though is free use of the logo/mascot. To really open up the market like OpenBSD has, you kind of have to consider... dare I say it?... changing the mascot. If you want to produce lots of mass produced stuff with loads of artwork and sell them, you can't use beastie unless you've cleared every item with McKusick: http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/mainpage/copyright.html That's fine, and I understand his reasoning. It just works against what you're suggesting unfortunately. > Also some posters would be nice -- We hang them in our office. I could > print stuff on a plotter but it wouldn't be the same as a > professionally > printed poster. And by far the cheapest thing to produce (and therefore buy) out of all the merchandise oppurtunities. A bulk poster printer will produce full-colour A1 or A2 prints for a remarkably low fee, you just need to order a lot of them. -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 3 07:46:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B136516A4B3 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B10843F85 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:46:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C5FC3D28; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:46:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: "Paul Robinson" Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:47:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3F7D53DF.11218.48A31DDD@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002c01c389bb$3e632340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> References: <20030928152441.S83167-100000@users.757.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Swag... new choices? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:46:45 -0000 On 3 Oct 2003 at 15:32, Paul Robinson wrote: > When > was the last time you saw Beastie in 2D in any position other than > standing facing to our left? I'm shocked that you've not noticed the right facing Beastie that appears as a favicon at several websites. ;) http://www.freebsddiary.org/ http://www.freshports.org/ http:www.freshsource.org/ http://www.bsdcan.org/ http://www.daemonnews.org/ http://daily.daemonnews.org/ > The real problem though is free use of the logo/mascot. To really open > up the market like OpenBSD has, you kind of have to consider... dare I > say it?... changing the mascot. If you want to produce lots of mass > produced stuff with loads of artwork and sell them, you can't use > beastie unless you've cleared every item with McKusick: > > http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/mainpage/copyright.html > > That's fine, and I understand his reasoning. It just works against what > you're suggesting unfortunately. My experience with obtaining permission has been positive. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 3 07:57:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5401A16A4E9 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from reverendtimms.isu.mmu.ac.uk (reverendtimms.isu.mmu.ac.uk [149.170.192.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 240B243FE3 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:57:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from p.robinson@mmu.ac.uk) Received: from agena.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.168.195]) by reverendtimms.isu.mmu.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1A5RMm-0004Pf-01; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:57:12 +0100 Received: from MMU-HSS-AGENA/SpoolDir by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48); 3 Oct 03 15:57:12 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by MMU-HSS-AGENA (Mercury 1.48); 3 Oct 03 15:57:02 +0100 Received: from PRGMMITER (149.170.101.200) by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; 3 Oct 03 15:57:02 +0100 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "'Dan Langille'" Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:57:02 +0100 Message-ID: <002d01c389be$9a596fd0$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <3F7D53DF.11218.48A31DDD@localhost> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Swag... new choices? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:57:17 -0000 > I'm shocked that you've not noticed the right facing Beastie that > appears as a favicon at several websites. ;) You cheeky scamp. Just for that: http://www.freebsddiary.org/ - it's just a mirror flip http://www.freshports.org/ - still facing the same way, just carrying a tray http://www.freshsource.org/ - that's a tree. http://www.bsdcan.org/ - there are no logos there that I can see http://www.daemonnews.org/ - ditto. http://daily.daemonnews.org/ - I saw an advert for Sourcewars where beastie appears to have become a hippy Christian. Bizzare. :-)))) > My experience with obtaining permission has been positive. I'm sure it has been. However, I'm just stating that the OpenBSD movement has some more freedom in that they don't have to get everything cleared either artistically or commercially. That's the reason Beastie doesn't turn up that often. -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 3 07:59:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04A6A16A4B3 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5504143F85 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:59:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E1813D28; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: "Paul Robinson" Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:00:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3F7D56E0.12530.48AEDB15@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002d01c389be$9a596fd0$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> References: <3F7D53DF.11218.48A31DDD@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Swag... new choices? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:59:35 -0000 On 3 Oct 2003 at 15:57, Paul Robinson wrote: > > I'm shocked that you've not noticed the right facing Beastie that > > appears as a favicon at several websites. ;) > > You cheeky scamp. Just for that: > > http://www.freebsddiary.org/ - it's just a mirror flip > http://www.freshports.org/ - still facing the same way, just carrying a > tray > http://www.freshsource.org/ - that's a tree. > http://www.bsdcan.org/ - there are no logos there that I can see > http://www.daemonnews.org/ - ditto. > http://daily.daemonnews.org/ - I saw an advert for Sourcewars where > beastie appears to have become a hippy Christian. Bizzare. Read again. Then look again. When reading, observe the word "favicon". When looking, look for a favicon. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 3 11:30:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37C6916A4C0 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rambo.401.cx (rambo.401.cx [80.65.205.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2A4B43F75 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from 401.cx (rocky [192.168.0.2]) by rambo.401.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h93IUAd0026914; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:30:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <3F7DC032.8040806@401.cx> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:30:10 +0200 From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Langille References: <20030928152441.S83167-100000@users.757.org> <3F7D53DF.11218.48A31DDD@localhost> In-Reply-To: <3F7D53DF.11218.48A31DDD@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Swag... new choices? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 18:30:16 -0000 Dan Langille wrote: > On 3 Oct 2003 at 15:32, Paul Robinson wrote: *snip* >>The real problem though is free use of the logo/mascot. To really open >>up the market like OpenBSD has, you kind of have to consider... dare I >>say it?... changing the mascot. If you want to produce lots of mass >>produced stuff with loads of artwork and sell them, you can't use >>beastie unless you've cleared every item with McKusick: >> >>http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/mainpage/copyright.html >> >>That's fine, and I understand his reasoning. It just works against what >>you're suggesting unfortunately. > > My experience with obtaining permission has been positive. I dont think obtaining permission is the problem, I think the fact that you have to obtain it in the first place is the problem. I know a lot of artists, some of my best friends are artists, and most of them wont do anything that has something even remotely similar to a copyright hanging over it. Im sure McKusick is a great guy, the few times Ive been in contact with him I have had no problem at all, but just the fact that he owns the copyright on the daemon scares a lot of people away. In todays society, you can get sued just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I find it completely understandable that people dont make t-shirts, posters or whatever as long as there is a copyright on the daemon. -- R From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 3 11:37:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FF8216A4B3 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from essence.sdodson.com (66-133-142-242.dr1.tbr.ga.frontiernet.net [66.133.142.242]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E8543FF7 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:37:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from samy@kerneled.com) Received: from beastie.freebsd.local (dial36-175.sbm.net.sa [212.46.36.175]) by essence.sdodson.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h93Ib4pi056812; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:37:09 GMT (envelope-from samy@kerneled.com) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 21:38:16 +0300 From: Samy Al Bahra To: "Paul Robinson" Message-Id: <20031003213816.7509c057.samy@kerneled.com> In-Reply-To: <002c01c389bb$3e632340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> References: <20030928152441.S83167-100000@users.757.org> <002c01c389bb$3e632340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> Organization: Kerneled X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5-gtk2-20030906 (GTK+ 2.2.1; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Swag... new choices? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 18:37:17 -0000 On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:32:59 +0100 "Paul Robinson" wrote: > Ahhh, but they have completely free use of their puffy fish mascot and > a bunch of talented guys producing original artwork, music, the whole > lot. We have more developers and fewer artists, and a mascot we don't > really own. That makes it difficult to produce a wide range of > artwork. Very true. A major problem is the fact that we have to notify McKusick for all of our use of the daemon (for project art), everything is under his terms. I was working on a song with masta (of wifiBSD) a while back, unfortunately, I had higher priorities so the project was dropped. > Perhaps a competition of some sort? I don't think we should hold a competition, I know a lot of users out there (some being talented artists) have created their own art of some sort. I urge these to step-up and help me finish off this gallery to create a more complete set of artwork (more backgrounds, more splash screens, some icons, etc...). I am sniffing around IRC networks for these artists :) Personally, those pieces of work were for complete fun, this simple image composition is great therapy for me. > I think it also might be an idea > to get some distributors further afield than FreeBSD mall - I've had > genuinly AWFUL experiences with them, and a lot of people don't want > to deal with them. Plus, in Europe, there are plenty of distributors > prepared to handle this side of the Atlantic. I could do this for the Middle East (we have warehouses littered around here that are willing to deal with this). I just don't see the potential for this region at the moment (something to change...a future goal during my time here). > > The real problem though is free use of the logo/mascot. To really open > up the market like OpenBSD has, you kind of have to consider... dare I > say it?... changing the mascot. If you want to produce lots of mass > produced stuff with loads of artwork and sell them, you can't use > beastie unless you've cleared every item with McKusick: > > http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/mainpage/copyright.html Yes. I ran into this problem with the GNOME splash screen (since it will soon be the default one for GNOME 2.4). I hold very very high respect for McKusick but I think that his terms for the use of the daemon are a bit too constraining (though, his license is vague most could walk away with derivatives of it). I think we should stick to a daemon-type logo (though, something completely different than the current thing, maybe a gecko-daemon? :P). Eithercase, this is a huge step and something all the community should agree to. -- +-----------------------------------+ | Samy Al Bahra | samy@kerneled.com | |-----------------------------------| | B3A7 F5BE B2AE 67B1 AC4B | | 0983 956D 1F4A AA54 47CB | |-----------------------------------| | http://www.kerneled.com | +-----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 3 12:00:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07B8616A4BF for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from digiflux.org (43.Red-80-59-151.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.59.151.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6125643FE5 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:00:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Received: from Chronos ([10.0.0.56]) by digiflux.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h93IxVZG062986; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:59:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) From: "Stacy Olivas" To: "Francisco Reyes" Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 21:00:21 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20031002231529.D70966@zoraida.natserv.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Time to learn basic for experience person? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 19:00:27 -0000 >Have a good friend that inheritted 3 FreeBSD servers. He is considering to >change the OS because of the lack of in-house knowlege. > >I am thinking on offering to go to their office and show him and his team >the basics. Their background is Novell Netware and Windows 2K. > >Any guestimate how much time I should ask of them? They are 4, including >my friend; I believe they are all senior network admins. > >I think the first time would be just to give them a tour and show them >where things are stored and some of the basic commands and files they >would need to know. > >Tonight I could not talk much with him because he came for a a dinner >with my wife and sister in law and they looked at me very mean when I >talked computers... :-) In the mean time I lent him my copy of >the Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition. Hmm.... What you could also do is set them up "virtual play systems" running under vmware or Virtual PC, so once they get their feet wet they have something to play and break on their desktop. Then, when they wanted to try something, they wouldn't kill the servers. :) If the systems aren't huge, you could possibly even use a program like Ghost 4 Unix (http://rfhs8012.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/g4u/) and make a complete backup copy the systems. That way, if they are broken, they can be restored. Just my .2 cents -Stacy From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 3 13:14:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75ABB16A4B3 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2D743FFB for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:14:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lists@natserv.com) Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h93KE6qM005753; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:14:06 -0400 Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:17:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Francisco Reyes X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net To: Stacy Olivas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031003161501.D78671@zoraida.natserv.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Time to learn basic for experience person? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:14:10 -0000 On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Stacy Olivas wrote: > >Have a good friend that inheritted 3 FreeBSD servers. He is considering to > >change the OS because of the lack of in-house knowlege. > > > >I am thinking on offering to go to their office and show him and his team > >the basics. Their background is Novell Netware and Windows 2K. > > Hmm.... > > What you could also do is set them up "virtual play systems" running under > vmware or Virtual PC My friend is completely responsable for IT at that place so I think he could just get one or two machines for me to show him how to recreate whatever functionality the machines are doing. > If the systems aren't huge, you could possibly even use a program like Ghost > 4 Unix (http://rfhs8012.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/g4u/) and make a complete > backup copy the systems. That way, if they are broken, they can be > restored. Thanks for link. Something like this could be used to give them an extra sense of security that if they ever mess up their production systems as long as they have done a backup to another drive, they can always bring the system up.