From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 5 20:09:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2BE16A4B3 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7691843FEA for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:09:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net) Received: from 202.st-louis-106-107rs.mo.dial-access.att.net ([12.85.106.202]) by mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <20031006030923113007o0sue>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 03:09:23 +0000 From: Jonathan Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:09:26 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 To: Advocacy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310052209.26807.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Fwd: TextMaker: Should we support FreeBSD at all? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 03:09:26 -0000 Hi: I originally ran TextMaker, in FreeBSD, using Linux compat mode. A while back this company asked me if I would like a port of their word processor to FreeBSD, to which I said yes. They have sent me this questionnaire and I am forwarding it on to Advocacy. Some of the questions are not relevant, however the ones that pertain to where they can post additional queries or whether it is desirable to even support FreeBSD is something that more experienced people might want to comment on. I am a FreeBSD newbie. I would say that TextMaker compares well with Abiword 2 and OpenOffice. The install I have here of TextMaker is not as fast as Abiword 2 nor OpenOffice. That being said it has a very nice GUI. OpenOffice seems to do a better job of importing MS *.doc's. TextMaker does have good tables and it's hardcopies are quite good. However, IMHO Abiword will likely turn out to be a very good Word Processor, if not the one most widely used. Nevertheless I do also want commercial companies to port their software to FreeBSD. This enhances the value of FreeBSD and this is the reason why I have forwarded this e-mail to this list. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: TextMaker for FreeBSD Available Now Date: Sunday 05 October 2003 12:46 pm From: "SoftMaker Software GmbH" To: "Jonathan Drews" Jonathan Drews j.e.drews@att.net Customer number: XXXXXXX Dear valued SoftMaker customer: You have purchased TextMaker for Linux. We have just completed a port of TextMaker to the FreeBSD operating system and are making this available as a free download to you. TextMaker for FreeBSD is identical feature-wise to revision 392 of TextMaker for Linux and supports all x86-based FreeBSD systems starting with FreeBSD 4.8. (We simply haven't tested under older FreeBSD builds). Get the FreeBSD installation archive here: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (Please keep this URL confidential.) NOTE: Please do not pass along this installation file or pointers to it. You receive it only because you are a paying customer. We'll have free trial versions later. -------------------------------------------------------------- Should we support FreeBSD at all? Speak up now! -------------------------------------------------------------- We have not made a final decision whether to support FreeBSD at all and whether to port more applications like PlanMaker to FreeBSD. Speak up now! If you are a FreeBSD user and want to see our software for FreeBSD, help us make a business case for it by answering the following questions: 1. Should we support FreeBSD at all? 2. Does TextMaker for FreeBSD work without flaws on your FreeBSD system? (if not, please file bug reports to beta@softmaker.de) 3. Which printed magazines do you read that cover FreeBSD? 4. Which BSD-specific web sites do you visit? 5. How can we reach FreeBSD users? How can we ensure that more FreeBSD users learn about our software? 6. On which Unix-like operating systems would you like to see TextMaker, PlanMaker and our future office suite software? Send your replies to info@softmaker.de (or simply answer this e-mail and insert your comments). We want to hear your opinion! You can participate in deciding about the future directions of our software. Best regards, SoftMaker Software GmbH ------------------------------------------------------- -- Kind regards, Jonathan From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 5 21:20:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3114416A4BF for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:20:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E00B43FDF for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:20:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net) Received: from 202.st-louis-106-107rs.mo.dial-access.att.net ([12.85.106.202]) by mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <20031006042046113007ov0ne>; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 04:20:47 +0000 From: Jonathan To: Advocacy Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 23:20:49 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310052320.49906.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Slashdot rejects "BSD is NOT dying" article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:20:50 -0000 Robert Watson wrote: > In any case, I thought the results were interesting, and I think it's a > shame the editors of Slashdot felt that this material wasn't appropriate > for their forum... The Slashdot people think a port is a place where ships dock and that bash is a goth discoteque dance. Robert, can I post a link to you slide show at my little bsd group website, www.silbsd.org ? -- Kind regards, Jonathan From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 6 09:21:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76F0416A4B3 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postmanpat.isu.mmu.ac.uk (postmanpat.isu.mmu.ac.uk [149.170.192.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30E1F43F93 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:21:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from p.robinson@mmu.ac.uk) Received: from agena.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.168.195]) by postmanpat.isu.mmu.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1A6Y7G-0006uJ-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:21:46 +0100 Received: from MMU-HSS-AGENA/SpoolDir by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48); 6 Oct 03 17:21:46 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by MMU-HSS-AGENA (Mercury 1.48); 6 Oct 03 17:21:37 +0100 Received: from PRGMMITER (149.170.101.200) by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; 6 Oct 03 17:21:30 +0100 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "'Jonathan'" , "'Advocacy'" Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:21:30 +0100 Message-ID: <002601c38c25$e652cad0$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <200310052209.26807.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal cc: info@softmaker.de Subject: RE: TextMaker: Should we support FreeBSD at all? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:21:52 -0000 I'm CC'ing in SoftMaker so that they can get involved in the discussion themselves, directly, if they wish. My thoughts for what they're worth are below. Johnathan Drews wrote: > You have purchased TextMaker for Linux. How much did that cost you, btw, John? Price sensitive crowd around here. > NOTE: Please do not pass along this installation file or > pointers to it. You receive it only because you are a paying > customer. We'll have free trial versions later. For a reasonable response to the question they need free trial versions available ASAP. It's hard for me to decide whether I would pay for a FreeBSD version unless they let me have a version to play with for a while. > 1. Should we support FreeBSD at all? The short answer to give them is "Yes". Never, ever "maybe" or "no". However, if for economical reasons (I can't think why) it's problematic, just make sure there are instructions to make it easy for us to run it under Linux emulation. Even better, take control of the entry in /usr/ports and make sure it works for every release of TextMaker and FreeBSD. That'd be nice. > 2. Does TextMaker for FreeBSD work without flaws on your > FreeBSD system? (if not, please file bug reports to > beta@softmaker.de) Johnathan is suggesting it's slow. That's a flaw. It needs to be at least as fast if not faster than OpenOffice. It needs to look better, import MS files better, everything. If I'm going to pay for it, it needs to be much, much better than what is available for free. Everybody in the FreeBSD community feels that way, otherwise we would all be using Solaris. It's the key reason so few people actually move their code over to FreeBSD - we're used to having so much quality code available for free, we tend to flinch when it comes time to put our hands in our pockets. The notable exceptions are Oracle and if they ever dreamed of doing it, anything from Macromedia where the quality is VERY good. > 3. Which printed magazines do you read that cover FreeBSD? Hahahaha. I once tried ordering a copy of DaemonNews. That didn't work out. Are there any printed mags that cover it any detail? Should we start trying to subvert the Linux magazines by offering regular pieces to editors? Perhaps a piece on why more commercial companies should start supporting FreeBSD? > 4. Which BSD-specific web sites do you visit? Web sites? Are they like CVS repos? I heard about them once, but thought they were illegal or something. :-) Daemon News and FreeBSD mall are the big ones, and the ones around them. Here's a list that was just lying around in another thread: http://www.freebsddiary.org/ http://www.freshports.org/ http://www.freshsource.org/ http://www.bsdcan.org/ http://www.daemonnews.org/ http://daily.daemonnews.org/ > 5. How can we reach FreeBSD users? How can we ensure that > more FreeBSD users learn about our software? Give the project $1 million? :-) Usual channels I suppose, advertising, supporting events and the web sites and mags that do exist, start using it yourself, etc., etc. > 6. On which Unix-like operating systems would you like to > see TextMaker, PlanMaker and our future office suite software? The work involved in making it available for Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD are negligible. Mac OS X is one area they could look at if they want to make a splash. It needs to very, VERY good though. -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 6 12:15:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8074816A4B3 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D31643FEC for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:15:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:4639 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1A6apP-0006de-3p; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:15:31 -0700 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:12:25 -0700 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TRYRBMTL; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:11:30 -0700 From: Johnson David To: twig les , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:14:22 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <20030929162808.41655.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030929162808.41655.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310061214.22886.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1A6apP-0006de-3p*dDLjYUicwg2* X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 19:15:33 -0000 On Monday 29 September 2003 09:28 am, twig les wrote: > I just bought a "Daemon Xing" shirt at Toorcon and me and the > guy selling the shirts had a good laugh at slashdot's expense. > It's too bad a site with so much interesting stuff is so biased > in it's stories despite the fact that we have about 95% in > common with the Linux ppl. The trolls make the comments almost > not worth reading. I bought and wore that shirt at LinuxWorld a few months ago. I was working in the KDE booth and had quite a few people come up asking me about BSD. There was quite a lot of misinformation out there that I had the opportunity to correct. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 6 17:00:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C35A16A4B3 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amsfep14-int.chello.nl (amsfep14-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B990343F3F for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:00:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.142.207]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl ESMTP <20031007000048.SBCI27480.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 02:00:48 +0200 Message-ID: <3F8201CA.9040102@sitetronics.com> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:59:06 +0200 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030820 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, bsdadvocacy@bsdadvocacy.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: my bsdportal.org project X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:00:53 -0000 As I'm sure (at least) a few of you remember, I was talking a little bit ago about starting up a site 'bsdportal.org'. Well, that site is started, although I'm not completely done with it yet, it'd be nice to get a small userbase going and a bit of discussion. I'd like to hear your comments about it. I'm using Xoops as the CMS. At the moment it's still probably bleedingly obvious, but it's still a work in progress at this point; the layout will be changing a bit as I add more things. WRT the bsdevents.org and bsdadvocacy.org projects -- I've got links pointing your way ;). I'd actually like to see what's possible getting these "working together" in the sense that we can all contribute information between each other. I would, for instance, like to be able to put up some unique news relating to advocacy and/or events in the (Free)BSD community. To the bsdadvocacy list: are there sites I should be looking at (other than the obvious openbsd.org and netbsd.org and daemonnews.org sites) that contain information/news about the various BSD projects? To everyone: what's the general thought about this? Totally unnecessary? (too bad, I'm doing it anyway ;)) Layout comments? Flames > /dev/null, of course. --Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 6 21:23:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4558B16A4B3 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lakemtao06.cox.net (lakemtao06.cox.net [68.1.17.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F225143FE5 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:23:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kitbsdlist2@HotPOP.com) Received: from fortytwo ([68.109.49.234]) by lakemtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031007042319.OMWU10862.lakemtao06.cox.net@fortytwo>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:23:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:22:13 -0500 From: Vulpes Velox To: Johnson David Message-Id: <20031006232213.202b3ce6.kitbsdlist2@HotPOP.com> In-Reply-To: <200310061214.22886.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> References: <20030929162808.41655.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> <200310061214.22886.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:23:22 -0000 On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:14:22 -0700 Johnson David wrote: > On Monday 29 September 2003 09:28 am, twig les wrote: > > I just bought a "Daemon Xing" shirt at Toorcon and me and the > > guy selling the shirts had a good laugh at slashdot's expense. > > It's too bad a site with so much interesting stuff is so biased > > in it's stories despite the fact that we have about 95% in > > common with the Linux ppl. The trolls make the comments almost > > not worth reading. > > I bought and wore that shirt at LinuxWorld a few months ago. I was > working in the KDE booth and had quite a few people come up asking me > about BSD. There was quite a lot of misinformation out there that I had > the opportunity to correct. What where some of the come misinfo about it? From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 05:53:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9635F16A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F30AE43FDD for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:53:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B7A13D28 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:52:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 08:54:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3F827F5D.12772.5CD50071@localhost> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: BSDCan 2004 announcement X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 12:53:15 -0000 BSDCan is pleased to announce the first Canadian BSD conference. It will be held May 13-16, 2004 in Ottawa, Canada. BSDCan would like to invite everyone interested in BSD to submit papers. For details, please see http://www.bsdcan.org/papers.php. We plan to keep costs to a minimum. As such, the conference will be held at University of Ottawa and accommodation is available within the University residences. Hotels are also within close walking distance of the conference venue. The conference venue is within walking distance of the Byward Market, a great section of town for bars and pubs. This will be a popular meeting area for the BOFs. Attendees should find Ottawa cheaper than most other conference venues with many things to do and see away from the conference. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 09:38:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09F6816A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bario.k8.com.br (bario.k8.com.br [200.185.109.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B900C43F75 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:38:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from carlos@mecmedia.com.br) Received: (qmail 22914 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 17:14:17 -0000 Received: from 200-153-140-44.dsl.telesp.net.br (HELO carlinhos) (200.153.140.44) by bario.k8.com.br with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 17:14:17 -0000 Message-ID: <001901c38cf1$63d86980$0a00000a@carlinhos> From: "Carlos Augusto Silva" To: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:38:08 -0300 Organization: Mecmedia MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:38:06 -0000 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 09:59:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E47D16A4BF for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D3FA43FBF for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:59:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:2194 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1A6vAo-0002GE-5e; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:58:58 -0700 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:55:51 -0700 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TRYRBYLC; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:54:59 -0700 From: Johnson David To: Vulpes Velox Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:57:53 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20030929162808.41655.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> <200310061214.22886.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <20031006232213.202b3ce6.kitbsdlist2@HotPOP.com> In-Reply-To: <20031006232213.202b3ce6.kitbsdlist2@HotPOP.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310070957.53327.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1A6vAo-0002GE-5e*CQVYR3iU3GM* X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:59:05 -0000 On Monday 06 October 2003 09:22 pm, Vulpes Velox wrote: > > I bought and wore that shirt at LinuxWorld a few months ago. I was > > working in the KDE booth and had quite a few people come up asking > > me about BSD. There was quite a lot of misinformation out there > > that I had the opportunity to correct. > > What where some of the come misinfo about it? 1) FreeBSD doesn't have Java 2) FreeBSD doesn't have a usable GUI 3) FreeBSD has little hardware support (no USB, no Nvidia, etc) 4) FreeBSD can't do SMP at all 5) FreeBSD has no commercial support All of these were, in my opinion, valid concerns in the minds of the questioners. I'm pretty sure that at least two people I talked to went out and tried FreeBSD. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 10:15:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFDF416A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F056743FF7 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1A6vPk-0000wP-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:14:24 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:14:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: "Devon H. O'Dell" In-Reply-To: <3F8201CA.9040102@sitetronics.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: bsdadvocacy@bsdadvocacy.org Subject: Re: my bsdportal.org project X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:15:14 -0000 On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > To the bsdadvocacy list: are there sites I should be looking at (other > than the obvious openbsd.org and netbsd.org and daemonnews.org sites) > that contain information/news about the various BSD projects? http://www.bsdnewsletter.com/ I have ran it for over a year, and before that I built and managed BSD Today for over two years. I replied to bsdadvocacy@bsdadvocacy.org; I do not know what that list is. Jeremy C. Reed http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 10:18:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5120E16A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amsfep13-int.chello.nl (amsfep13-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.24]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD8243FAF for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:18:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.142.207]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl ESMTP <20031007171836.PYPW24716.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:18:36 +0200 Message-ID: <3F82F4DF.6050207@sitetronics.com> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 19:16:15 +0200 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030820 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jeremy C. Reed" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: bsdadvocacy@bsdadvocacy.org Subject: Re: my bsdportal.org project X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:18:41 -0000 >>To the bsdadvocacy list: are there sites I should be looking at (other >>than the obvious openbsd.org and netbsd.org and daemonnews.org sites) >>that contain information/news about the various BSD projects? >> >> > >http://www.bsdnewsletter.com/ > >I have ran it for over a year, and before that I built and managed BSD >Today for over two years. > >I replied to bsdadvocacy@bsdadvocacy.org; I do not know what that list is. > > Jeremy C. Reed > http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ > > Thanks, Jeremy! I'm in the process of linking to the news feed and setting up a link to your site. Never knew about this one; it looks well done. --Devon > > > > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 10:47:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93BF516A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A971043FDD for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:47:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from question+advocacy@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CCC3B536B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:47:47 -0700 From: Linh Pham To: Johnson David Message-ID: <20031007174747.GA39880@q.closedsrc.org> References: <20030929162808.41655.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com> <200310061214.22886.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> <20031006232213.202b3ce6.kitbsdlist2@HotPOP.com> <200310070957.53327.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200310070957.53327.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: closedsrc.org Mail-Copies-To: poster X-PGP-Key: http://closedsrc.org/~question/pubkey.asc cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Vulpes Velox Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:47:54 -0000 --SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2003-10-07 09:57 -0700, Johnson David wrote: # 1) FreeBSD doesn't have Java #=20 # 2) FreeBSD doesn't have a usable GUI #=20 # 3) FreeBSD has little hardware support (no USB, no Nvidia, etc) #=20 # 4) FreeBSD can't do SMP at all #=20 # 5) FreeBSD has no commercial support 6) FreeBSD doesn't have a lot of commercial software (compared to Oracle or Domino on Linux) 7) FreeBSD. Isn't that a server-only operating system? Those are two that I commonly run into. --=20 Linh Pham question+advocacy@closedsrc.org Webmaster and FreeBSD Geek http://closedsrc.org Apprentice Manager Editor and Writer http://www.daemonnews.org Courage: The things I do for love | And So Western Civilization Crumbles --SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/gvxDwhofDeWkDMIRAiRoAJ44OjBK4TSCjEYaHux+mjODCM6kSACeO7uv ma5p+X7+NtB3V/J44FV6FRw= =MTzT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 10:51:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E9516A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10102.mail.yahoo.com (web10102.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B573543F85 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:51:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twigles@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031007175142.51813.qmail@web10102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.5.49.41] by web10102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:51:42 PDT Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:51:42 -0700 (PDT) From: twig les To: Linh Pham , Johnson David In-Reply-To: <20031007174747.GA39880@q.closedsrc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Vulpes Velox Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:51:47 -0000 > > 7) FreeBSD. Isn't that a server-only operating system? > Just curious, is this a concern because they think OSs are rigidly seperated into "Servers" and "Workstations" a la NT4? Or are they just scared of FBSD because they haven't seen anyone running Ogle or XMMS on it? ===== ----------------------------------------------------------- Get a taste of Religion ... eat a priest! ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 10:57:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6242316A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10105.mail.yahoo.com (web10105.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.55]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D599543F93 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:57:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twigles@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031007175745.98009.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.5.49.41] by web10105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:57:45 PDT Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:57:45 -0700 (PDT) From: twig les To: "Devon H. O'Dell" In-Reply-To: <3F82F4DF.6050207@sitetronics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: bsdadvocacy@bsdadvocacy.org Subject: Re: my bsdportal.org project X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:57:47 -0000 Are you considering blogging with an RSS feed? --- "Devon H. O'Dell" wrote: > > >>To the bsdadvocacy list: are there sites I should be looking > at (other > >>than the obvious openbsd.org and netbsd.org and > daemonnews.org sites) > >>that contain information/news about the various BSD > projects? > >> > >> > > > >http://www.bsdnewsletter.com/ > > > >I have ran it for over a year, and before that I built and > managed BSD > >Today for over two years. > > > >I replied to bsdadvocacy@bsdadvocacy.org; I do not know what > that list is. > > > > Jeremy C. Reed > > http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ > > > > > Thanks, Jeremy! I'm in the process of linking to the news feed > and > setting up a link to your site. Never knew about this one; it > looks well > done. > > --Devon > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ===== ----------------------------------------------------------- Get a taste of Religion ... eat a priest! ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 10:59:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 432F116A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E7D43F93 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:59:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from question+advocacy@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A33E1536B; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:59:45 -0700 From: Linh Pham To: twig les Message-ID: <20031007175945.GC39880@q.closedsrc.org> References: <20031007174747.GA39880@q.closedsrc.org> <20031007175142.51813.qmail@web10102.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IrhDeMKUP4DT/M7F" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031007175142.51813.qmail@web10102.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: closedsrc.org Mail-Copies-To: poster X-PGP-Key: http://closedsrc.org/~question/pubkey.asc cc: Johnson David cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Vulpes Velox Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:59:50 -0000 --IrhDeMKUP4DT/M7F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2003-10-07 10:51 -0700, twig les wrote: # Just curious, is this a concern because they think OSs are # rigidly seperated into "Servers" and "Workstations" a la NT4?=20 # Or are they just scared of FBSD because they haven't seen anyone # running Ogle or XMMS on it? I think it's a combination of both... --=20 Linh Pham question+advocacy@closedsrc.org Webmaster and FreeBSD Geek http://closedsrc.org Apprentice Manager Editor and Writer http://www.daemonnews.org Courage: The things I do for love | And So Western Civilization Crumbles --IrhDeMKUP4DT/M7F Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/gv8RwhofDeWkDMIRApvNAJ9IvP6fg8x3j6Ul0thjmMYB85dbWACgnmEN 2MVO50tQHLmtuciRQjDzLQo= =uEUI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IrhDeMKUP4DT/M7F-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 10:59:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAEF416A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amsfep14-int.chello.nl (amsfep14-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5342543FD7 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:59:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.142.207]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl ESMTP <20031007175949.SLOY27480.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:59:49 +0200 Message-ID: <3F82FEA8.30203@sitetronics.com> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 19:58:00 +0200 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030820 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: twig les References: <20031007175745.98009.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031007175745.98009.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: bsdadvocacy@bsdadvocacy.org Subject: Re: my bsdportal.org project X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:59:55 -0000 twig les wrote: >Are you considering blogging with an RSS feed? > > Yes, but I can't figure out how to get Xoops to generate an RSS feed. I might have to make something that does that myself :\ (Or do any of you fine people know?) :) --Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 11:50:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5146116A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (duey.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CEF143F93 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:50:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89EF32012D; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:50:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (duey.wolves.k12.mo.us [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 34857-01-23; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:50:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0B6EF20138; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:50:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 097A11C755; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:50:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:50:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: twig les In-Reply-To: <20031007175142.51813.qmail@web10102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20031007130154.H31740@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> References: <20031007175142.51813.qmail@web10102.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at wolves.k12.mo.us cc: Johnson David cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Vulpes Velox Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 18:50:36 -0000 On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, twig les wrote: > Just curious, is this a concern because they think OSs are rigidly > seperated into "Servers" and "Workstations" a la NT4? Or are they > just scared of FBSD because they haven't seen anyone running Ogle or > XMMS on it? I wouldn't say that Windows Server/Workstation are "rigidly separated" in the least bit. Windows "Server" and "Workstation" share absolutely everything in common except for some limitations placed purposefully on the "Workstation" version. You can use Windows Server as your "workstation" if you really wanted to waste the extra money you paid to acquire the Server version. There is one relatively high-profile server operating system which really does have no function other than to be a "server", and that is Novell Netware. With Netware in mind, it is easy to see how someone might think that it is actually _impossible_ to use FreeBSD as a workstation. If someone really needs a server/workstation dichotomy, then FreeBSD can be likened to Windows Server (version irrelevant), since it is fully-functional in BOTH server and workstation roles, but unlike Windows you still don't have to pay any money if you want it to act in a server role. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon(at)wolves.k12.mo.us FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet - Available for IA32, IA64, PC98, Alpha, and UltraSPARC architectures - x86-64, PowerPC, ARM, MIPS, and S/390 under development - http://www.freebsd.org Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon? From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 13:04:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D0FE16A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:04:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10102.mail.yahoo.com (web10102.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 23F5A43FA3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:04:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twigles@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031007200416.77115.qmail@web10102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.5.49.41] by web10102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:04:16 PDT Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:04:16 -0700 (PDT) From: twig les To: Chris Dillon In-Reply-To: <20031007130154.H31740@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:04:18 -0000 > I wouldn't say that Windows Server/Workstation are "rigidly > separated" > in the least bit. Good point, I should have clarified that I was talking more about the naming/advertising/sales strategies than the technical merits. The simple way MS labeled one cd a workstation and one a server. ===== ----------------------------------------------------------- Get a taste of Religion ... eat a priest! ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 13:13:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4405316A4BF for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08a.verio.de (mail08a.verio.de [213.198.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 905A643FE1 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:13:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08a.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 2-0122077627; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:13:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:19:52 +0200 Message-ID: <3F831EA6.9040406@softmaker.de> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:14:30 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Robinson References: <002601c38c25$e652cad0$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> In-Reply-To: <002601c38c25$e652cad0$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 cc: 'Advocacy' cc: info@softmaker.de Subject: Re: TextMaker: Should we support FreeBSD at all? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:13:57 -0000 Paul: OK, second attempt to answer that. I replied through a newsgroup but didn't realize that this mail2news gate didn't propagate back my post. Hope my cutting-and-pasting isn't messing up the formatting too much... Paul Robinson wrote: > > How much did that cost you, btw, John? Price sensitive crowd around > here. > TextMaker has a list price of $49.95. As soon as our additional office suite components (PlanMaker, DataMaker) become available, there will also be an office suite-type package. > For a reasonable response to the question they need free trial versions > available ASAP. It's hard for me to decide whether I would pay for a > FreeBSD version unless they let me have a version to play with for a > while. > We already have the trial version. It is undergoing a bit more testing, and we'll make it available in the next couple of days. > >>1. Should we support FreeBSD at all? > > > The short answer to give them is "Yes". Never, ever "maybe" or "no". > However, if for economical reasons (I can't think why) it's problematic, > just make sure there are instructions to make it easy for us to run it > under Linux emulation. Even better, take control of the entry in > /usr/ports and make sure it works for every release of TextMaker and > FreeBSD. That'd be nice. > TextMaker for Linux already worked very nicely under Linux emulation on FreeBSD and NetBSD. We did the port (a) because it was easy (just one source code change) and (b) there were a couple of people telling us they'd never consider running the Linux emulator on *BSD, and (c) because we could ... > >>2. Does TextMaker for FreeBSD work without flaws on your >>FreeBSD system? (if not, please file bug reports to >>beta@softmaker.de) > > > Johnathan is suggesting it's slow. That's a flaw. It needs to be at > least as fast if not faster than OpenOffice. That's what irritates me. TextMaker on the vast majority of systems is MUCH faster than OpenOffice, even faster than Abiword. It should load in one or two seconds and redraw much faster than OO. I guess we'll have to wait till the trial version to get a better sampling of TextMaker's behaviour on FreeBSD. One situation where TextMaker will be slow is on systems with less than 16 bits of color. Apart from that, TextMaker should RACE on systems, not the opposite. > It needs to look better, > import MS files better, everything. If I'm going to pay for it, it needs > to be much, much better than what is available for free. By many accounts, TextMaker already has better Word import and export than OpenOffice, and we are continually improving it. We are even going so far as to change TextMaker's feature to improve Word conversion. Simple example: The next release will support table cells larger than one page (which OO won't do till 2.0) because it improves import quality. >>3. Which printed magazines do you read that cover FreeBSD? > > > Hahahaha. I once tried ordering a copy of DaemonNews. That didn't work > out. Are there any printed mags that cover it any detail? Should we > start trying to subvert the Linux magazines by offering regular pieces > to editors? Perhaps a piece on why more commercial companies should > start supporting FreeBSD? > Well, there ARE magazines with *BSD coverage, at least here in Germany. So I think that question was legitimate ... > >>4. Which BSD-specific web sites do you visit? > > > Web sites? Are they like CVS repos? I heard about them once, but thought > they were illegal or something. :-) > > Daemon News and FreeBSD mall are the big ones, and the ones around them. > Here's a list that was just lying around in another thread: > > > http://www.freebsddiary.org/ > http://www.freshports.org/ > http://www.freshsource.org/ > http://www.bsdcan.org/ > http://www.daemonnews.org/ > http://daily.daemonnews.org/ > Yep, that's about the list I compiled from other users' replies. > >>5. How can we reach FreeBSD users? How can we ensure that >>more FreeBSD users learn about our software? > > > Give the project $1 million? :-) Usual channels I suppose, advertising, > supporting events and the web sites and mags that do exist, start using > it yourself, etc., etc. > If I had a million, I'd spend it for a couple more programmers to speed up development. :-) Thank you for sharing your insights, I am interested in reading as many opinions as possible. Martin Kotulla SoftMaker Software GmbH From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 13:14:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6010B16A4BF for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (duey.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9468843FBF for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:14:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 193ED2013C; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:14:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (duey.wolves.k12.mo.us [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 35536-01-5; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:14:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A171120138; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:14:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E5E51C759; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:14:12 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:14:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: twig les In-Reply-To: <20031007200416.77115.qmail@web10102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20031007150653.U31740@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us> References: <20031007200416.77115.qmail@web10102.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at wolves.k12.mo.us cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Rumour Mill on FreeBSD Death Still .... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:14:14 -0000 On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, twig les wrote: > > I wouldn't say that Windows Server/Workstation are "rigidly > > separated" in the least bit. > > Good point, I should have clarified that I was talking more about > the naming/advertising/sales strategies than the technical merits. > The simple way MS labeled one cd a workstation and one a server. Indeed. If nothing else, that just goes to show how such a classification works in the mind of the average person. The technical differences (if any) don't make a lick of a difference, it is all about the brainwa... err, marketing. Hmm... I think I'll take the "server" bit out of my sig, too. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon(at)wolves.k12.mo.us FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet - Available for IA32, IA64, PC98, Alpha, and UltraSPARC architectures - x86-64, PowerPC, ARM, MIPS, and S/390 under development - http://www.freebsd.org Q: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. A: Why is putting a reply at the top of the message frowned upon? From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 13:31:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8229716A4C0 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D56C944032 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:30:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:2922 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1A6yTq-0000zp-3r; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:30:50 -0700 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:27:42 -0700 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TRYRB67T; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:26:54 -0700 From: Johnson David To: Martin Kotulla Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:29:48 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <002601c38c25$e652cad0$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> <3F831EA6.9040406@softmaker.de> In-Reply-To: <3F831EA6.9040406@softmaker.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310071329.48990.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1A6yTq-0000zp-3r*0yIb9ka5ipk* X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false cc: 'Advocacy' Subject: Re: TextMaker: Should we support FreeBSD at all? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:31:41 -0000 On Tuesday 07 October 2003 01:14 pm, Martin Kotulla wrote: > >>3. Which printed magazines do you read that cover FreeBSD? > > > > Hahahaha. I once tried ordering a copy of DaemonNews. That didn't > > work out. Are there any printed mags that cover it any detail? > > Should we start trying to subvert the Linux magazines by offering > > regular pieces to editors? Perhaps a piece on why more commercial > > companies should start supporting FreeBSD? > > Well, there ARE magazines with *BSD coverage, at least here in > Germany. So I think that question was legitimate ... I just received a copy of the Winter 2003 Daemonnews printzine on Saturday. That's the only US BSD-specific zine that I know. But there are several others that cover open source in general though they may have "Linux" in their name. If the article isn't about the kernel, glibc, or a specific distro, it's probably applicable to FreeBSD. I seem to recall BSD specific articles or reviews in both Linux Journal and Linux magazine in the past. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 13:32:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A3C316A4D5 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10104.mail.yahoo.com (web10104.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B5A643FFB for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:32:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twigles@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031007203156.12380.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.5.49.41] by web10104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:31:56 PDT Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:31:56 -0700 (PDT) From: twig les To: Martin Kotulla , Paul Robinson In-Reply-To: <3F831EA6.9040406@softmaker.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: 'Advocacy' cc: info@softmaker.de Subject: Re: TextMaker: Should we support FreeBSD at all? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:32:03 -0000 > By many accounts, TextMaker already has better Word import and > export > than OpenOffice, and we are continually improving it. I have a silly question. Will Textmaker and Open/StarOffice be able to interchange docs in their native formats? I'm a little behind so be nice, I haven't used StarOffice since 5.2 and I haven't tried Textmaker yet. I just a little concerned that developers will try to lock users in by making their formats more complex while reading the other guy's format (not accusing anyone at all, just concerned). Concerning using an Office suite across all Win/*nix platforms, I'm a ripe consumer for the picking right now, especially with the DRM stuff coming in the next MS Office. ===== ----------------------------------------------------------- Get a taste of Religion ... eat a priest! ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 13:39:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED6216A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08b.verio.de (mail08b.verio.de [213.198.55.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 571F643FE3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08b.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 1-0727799131; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:38:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:44:57 +0200 Message-ID: <3F832488.60506@softmaker.de> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:39:36 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: twig les References: <20031007203156.12380.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031007203156.12380.qmail@web10104.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 cc: info@softmaker.de cc: 'Advocacy' Subject: Re: TextMaker: Should we support FreeBSD at all? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:39:02 -0000 twig les wrote: >I have a silly question. Will Textmaker and Open/StarOffice be >able to interchange docs in their native formats? I'm a little >behind so be nice, I haven't used StarOffice since 5.2 and I >haven't tried Textmaker yet. I just a little concerned that >developers will try to lock users in by making their formats >more complex while reading the other guy's format (not accusing >anyone at all, just concerned). Concerning using an Office >suite across all Win/*nix platforms, I'm a ripe consumer for the >picking right now, especially with the DRM stuff coming in the >next MS Office. > > > Perfecting MS Word import and export has been and is priority #1 for us. There is so much e-mail with .doc attachments sent back and forth that this is an absolute necessity. We also have support for RTF, HTML, ASCII, and Unicode plain-text, and we will in a future version offer an OpenOffice filter. About vendor lock-in, I can understand your concerns. That's why we not only support our own native format but MS Word's .doc format as a parallel format. You can even set your default file format to .doc if you don't want to bother with our format. I'd wager there will always be (at least for the next 100 years...) a way to read .doc files -- not that I'm crazy about this format per se, but it IS the standard after all in the business world. Martin Kotulla SoftMaker Software GmbH From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 14:18:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62C0616A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rs6000.univie.ac.at (rs6000.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED4D643FEC for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:18:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from l.ertl@univie.ac.at) Received: from wireless (adslle.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.102.11]) by rs6000.univie.ac.at (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h97LHpD5075542; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:18:00 +0200 Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:17:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Lukas Ertl To: Martin Kotulla In-Reply-To: <3F831EA6.9040406@softmaker.de> Message-ID: <20031007230721.D585@korben.in.tern> References: <002601c38c25$e652cad0$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> <3F831EA6.9040406@softmaker.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: info@softmaker.de cc: 'Advocacy' Subject: Re: TextMaker: Should we support FreeBSD at all? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:18:18 -0000 On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Martin Kotulla wrote: > We did the port (a) because it was easy (just one source code change) > and (b) there were a couple of people telling us they'd never consider > running the Linux emulator on *BSD, and (c) because we could ... Honestly, I have to say this is _really_ cool! I don't know TextMaker, and I only fire up OO when someone sends me the occasional .doc file, so I'm probably not the audience you're targetting, but just the fact that you want to support FreeBSD _and_ say that the port was easy gives me a good feeling :-) FreeBSD definitely needs more attention from commercial software vendors, and this is one step into the right direction. (Now, please all of you mail Oracle... :-) ). > That's what irritates me. TextMaker on the vast majority of systems is > MUCH faster than OpenOffice, even faster than Abiword. It should load in This would really be a reason to use TextMaker instead of OO. OO is great, because it's more or less the only available office package for *nix, but more alternatives (and faster ones) are always good. > >>5. How can we reach FreeBSD users? How can we ensure that > >>more FreeBSD users learn about our software? Well, daemonnews.org is probably a bookmark of every serious FreeBSD user, so some advertising there probably isn't bad :-) I'm not so up-to-date with who is currently packaging up FreeBSD releases, but what about bundling your software with a FreeBSD release, something like "Desktop Edition"? *ducksandruns* regards, le -- Lukas Ertl eMail: l.ertl@univie.ac.at UNIX Systemadministrator Tel.: (+43 1) 4277-14073 Vienna University Computer Center Fax.: (+43 1) 4277-9140 University of Vienna http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~le/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 7 14:53:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4786B16A4B3 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rs6000.univie.ac.at (male.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A05243FBF for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:53:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from l.ertl@univie.ac.at) Received: from wireless (adslle.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.102.11]) by rs6000.univie.ac.at (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h97LrVD5047426; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:53:35 +0200 Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:53:24 +0200 (CEST) From: Lukas Ertl To: Martin Kotulla In-Reply-To: <20031007230721.D585@korben.in.tern> Message-ID: <20031007235146.E585@korben.in.tern> References: <002601c38c25$e652cad0$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> <3F831EA6.9040406@softmaker.de> <20031007230721.D585@korben.in.tern> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: 'Advocacy' cc: info@softmaker.de Subject: Re: TextMaker: Should we support FreeBSD at all? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:53:42 -0000 On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Lukas Ertl wrote: > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Martin Kotulla wrote: > > > That's what irritates me. TextMaker on the vast majority of systems is > > MUCH faster than OpenOffice, even faster than Abiword. It should load in > > This would really be a reason to use TextMaker instead of OO. OO is > great, because it's more or less the only available office package for > *nix, but more alternatives (and faster ones) are always good. Just for the record, I downloaded your Linux trial version and I have to say, it really starts up in one, two seconds. Even the fonts are anti-aliased - very nice :-) regards, le -- Lukas Ertl eMail: l.ertl@univie.ac.at UNIX Systemadministrator Tel.: (+43 1) 4277-14073 Vienna University Computer Center Fax.: (+43 1) 4277-9140 University of Vienna http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~le/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 8 04:00:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E412816A4C0 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from reverendtimms.isu.mmu.ac.uk (reverendtimms.isu.mmu.ac.uk [149.170.192.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 182FE43F85 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:00:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from p.robinson@mmu.ac.uk) Received: from agena.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.168.195]) by reverendtimms.isu.mmu.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1A7C3n-0002aJ-00; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:00:51 +0100 Received: from MMU-HSS-AGENA/SpoolDir by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48); 8 Oct 03 12:00:51 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by MMU-HSS-AGENA (Mercury 1.48); 8 Oct 03 12:00:27 +0100 Received: from PRGMMITER (149.170.101.200) by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; 8 Oct 03 12:00:23 +0100 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "'Martin Kotulla'" Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:00:23 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c38d8b$5f59d840$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3F831EA6.9040406@softmaker.de> cc: 'Advocacy' cc: info@softmaker.de Subject: RE: TextMaker: Should we support FreeBSD at all? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:00:55 -0000 > From: Martin Kotulla [mailto:martin-k@softmaker.de] > > Paul: > > OK, second attempt to answer that. I replied through a newsgroup but > didn't realize that this mail2news gate didn't propagate back > my post. No problem. ;-) > TextMaker has a list price of $49.95. As soon as our > additional office > suite components (PlanMaker, DataMaker) become available, there will > also be an office suite-type package. That's quite reasonable. Around the same price point as StarOffice. > We already have the trial version. It is undergoing a bit > more testing, > and we'll make it available in the next couple of days. Let us know when it is, and I'll take a look. > TextMaker for Linux already worked very nicely under Linux > emulation on > FreeBSD and NetBSD. That doesn't surprise me at all. I'll bet you $5 that it ran faster on FBSD under Linux emul than it did on Linux too. :-) > We did the port (a) because it was easy (just one source code change) > and (b) there were a couple of people telling us they'd never > consider > running the Linux emulator on *BSD, and (c) because we could ... Fair enough. So it doesn't cost you anything to natively support FreeBSD in effect? Could we perhaps ask you to do a bit of advocacy about how easy it all was for you? It would act as marketing for you, and might help us win a few battles with some of the people we slowly want to start coming over to us. E.g. Macromedia, Oracle, shock-horror even MS! > That's what irritates me. TextMaker on the vast majority of > systems is > MUCH faster than OpenOffice, even faster than Abiword. It > should load in > one or two seconds and redraw much faster than OO. I guess > we'll have to > wait till the trial version to get a better sampling of TextMaker's > behaviour on FreeBSD. Yup. > One situation where TextMaker will be slow is on systems with > less than > 16 bits of color. Apart from that, TextMaker should RACE on > systems, not > the opposite. How does that work? Why does its performance rely on colour depth? > By many accounts, TextMaker already has better Word import and export > than OpenOffice, and we are continually improving it. We are Oh, nice. If that's true I'll buy it. > Well, there ARE magazines with *BSD coverage, at least here > in Germany. > So I think that question was legitimate ... Yeah, sure. It's just that in the UK, it's a dry wasteland really. Maybe it's time for me to write a few articles and tout them around some of the mainstream magazines. Thanks for your support of our OS. I for one, look forward to seeing more from you in the future. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 8 13:05:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0384F16A4BF for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08b.verio.de (mail08b.verio.de [213.198.55.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B247543FAF for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:05:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08b.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 2-0820293487 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:04:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:10:54 +0200 Message-ID: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:05:32 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Subject: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:05:16 -0000 Hello, we have just updated our web pages to reflect the fact that we now have TextMaker for FreeBSD as well. I guess you could consider that as a commitment to the FreeBSD operating system and its users. To find out more about TextMaker, go to http://www.softmaker.de/tml_en.htm Also, we have a trial version of TextMaker for FreeBSD up. Go ahead, download it and tell me what you think (sucks - is great - doesn't work on this FreeBSD version - works fine here) and file bug reports. I am very interested in your feedback. Martin Kotulla SoftMaker Software GmbH From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 8 14:06:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C36116A4BF for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rs6000.univie.ac.at (male.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF99843FF5 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:06:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from l.ertl@univie.ac.at) Received: from wireless (adslle.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.102.11]) by rs6000.univie.ac.at (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h98L5ND5049676; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:05:32 +0200 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:03:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Lukas Ertl To: Martin Kotulla In-Reply-To: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> Message-ID: <20031008230329.C664@korben.in.tern> References: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:06:26 -0000 On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Martin Kotulla wrote: > Also, we have a trial version of TextMaker for FreeBSD up. Go ahead, > download it and tell me what you think (sucks - is great - doesn't work > on this FreeBSD version - works fine here) and file bug reports. I am > very interested in your feedback. It doesn't start on -CURRENT: $ /usr/local/textmakertrial/tm /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libXThrStub.so.6" not found regards, le -- Lukas Ertl eMail: l.ertl@univie.ac.at UNIX Systemadministrator Tel.: (+43 1) 4277-14073 Vienna University Computer Center Fax.: (+43 1) 4277-9140 University of Vienna http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~le/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 8 14:21:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19FAE16A4F4 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 054CF43FE3 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:21:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:1135 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1A7Lk9-0007ma-5S; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:21:13 -0700 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:18:05 -0700 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TRYRCMSG; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:17:17 -0700 From: Johnson David To: Martin Kotulla Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:20:12 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> <20031008230329.C664@korben.in.tern> In-Reply-To: <20031008230329.C664@korben.in.tern> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310081420.12343.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1A7Lk9-0007ma-5S*NDaU/8p1N4c* X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:21:19 -0000 On Wednesday 08 October 2003 02:03 pm, Lukas Ertl wrote: > It doesn't start on -CURRENT: > > $ /usr/local/textmakertrial/tm > /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libXThrStub.so.6" not found I'm getting the same thing with 5.1-RELEASE David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 9 08:48:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87BB716A4BF for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 08:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anthonychavez.org (anthonychavez.org [166.70.206.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A97A843FDD for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 08:48:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acc@anthonychavez.org) Received: from pegasus.anthonychavez.org (fw.anthonychavez.org [192.168.1.1]) by anthonychavez.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2BA474; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:48:45 -0600 (MDT) To: "Devon H. O'Dell" X-PGP-Key: http://anthonychavez.org/pubkey.asc References: <3F8201CA.9040102@sitetronics.com> From: Anthony Chavez Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:48:43 -0600 In-Reply-To: <3F8201CA.9040102@sitetronics.com> (Devon H. O'Dell's message of "Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:59:06 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/21.3 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: bsdadvocacy@bsdadvocacy.org Subject: Re: [bsdadvocacy] my bsdportal.org project X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:48:47 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:59:06 +0200 "Devon H. O'Dell" wrote: > WRT the bsdevents.org and bsdadvocacy.org projects -- I've got links > pointing your way ;). I'd actually like to see what's possible getting > these "working together" in the sense that we can all contribute > information between each other. I would, for instance, like to be able > to put up some unique news relating to advocacy and/or events in the > (Free)BSD community. I'm not entirely sure what you're after, but I for one am open to just about anything apart from being associated with any organization except ourselves---I'd like to remain unbiased. > To the bsdadvocacy list: are there sites I should be looking at (other > than the obvious openbsd.org and netbsd.org and daemonnews.org sites) > that contain information/news about the various BSD projects? freebsd.org? ;-) I would suggest combing through Google's BSD directory: http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/Unix/B= SD/ > To everyone: what's the general thought about this? Totally > unnecessary? (too bad, I'm doing it anyway ;)) Layout comments? You may have the makings of a good site here. I don't know of a single site that simply catalogs all of the BSD resources out on the net, apart From=20the obvious directories (Google, dmoz.org, Yahoo, etc.), which could do a better job. If you want my suggestion, you should consider remaining unafilliated with any groups that could sway your opinion and just provide good links and information. But you knew that, right? ;-) =2D-=20 Anthony Chavez The BSD Advocacy Project mailto:acc@bsdadvocacy.org http://www.bsdadvocacy.org/ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQA/hYNebZTbIaRBRXERAh45AKCFclkFjyCnkHdSBfYxT9rmHZNAEwCbBtKb aVMaPGJdUgWA7G/PFJvBWak= =zIke -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 9 08:55:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99EA516A4B3 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 08:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anthonychavez.org (anthonychavez.org [166.70.206.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C950343FCB for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 08:55:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acc@anthonychavez.org) Received: from pegasus.anthonychavez.org (fw.anthonychavez.org [192.168.1.1]) by anthonychavez.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36CC74; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:55:49 -0600 (MDT) To: "Jeremy C. Reed" X-PGP-Key: http://anthonychavez.org/pubkey.asc References: From: Anthony Chavez Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:55:46 -0600 In-Reply-To: (Jeremy C. Reed's message of "Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:14:24 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/21.3 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: bsdadvocacy@bsdadvocacy.org Subject: Re: [bsdadvocacy] Re: my bsdportal.org project X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:55:51 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:14:24 -0700 (PDT) "Jeremy C. Reed" wrote: > I replied to bsdadvocacy@bsdadvocacy.org; I do not know what that list is. This is the outgrowth of the bsd-advocacy@daemonnews.org mailing list (i.e., the Public Relations project) that was being discussed on ferebsd-advocacy a while back. I'll make a formal announcement to the *bsd-advocacy lists in the near future. It's just getting off the ground, but the mailing list is here: http://www.bsdadvocacy.org/mailman/listinfo/bsdadvocacy I just noticed that the site itself does not have a link to the mailing list. If somebody doesn't beat me to it, I'll put one there. :-) =2D-=20 Anthony Chavez The BSD Advocacy Project mailto:acc@bsdadvocacy.org http://www.bsdadvocacy.org/ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQA/hYUGbZTbIaRBRXERAo8UAJ0S3fkZHNB8LkvNzWbMYTZ5vZR0PgCeM7ZP NGcIsuEIpuQOUvJT9bpT8SY= =S3j2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 9 13:00:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3A4516A4BF for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08a.verio.de (mail08a.verio.de [213.198.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 11B0C43FDF for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:00:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08a.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 2-0788969572; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:59:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Thu, 09 Oct 2003 22:05:39 +0200 Message-ID: <3F85BE50.3070808@softmaker.de> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 22:00:16 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mikel King References: <001701c38d8b$5f59d840$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> <200310081227.07636.mikel.king@ocsny.com> In-Reply-To: <200310081227.07636.mikel.king@ocsny.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 cc: 'Advocacy' Subject: Re: TextMaker: Should we support FreeBSD at all? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:00:48 -0000 Mikel King wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >URL to textmaker's site? > > > http://www.softmaker.de http://www.softmaker.com Take your pick... Best, -mk From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 9 13:00:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE2116A4B3 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08a.verio.de (mail08a.verio.de [213.198.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 47FCD43FDD for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:00:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08a.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 1-0792859596; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:59:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Thu, 09 Oct 2003 22:06:02 +0200 Message-ID: <3F85BE68.8010400@softmaker.de> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 22:00:40 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lukas Ertl References: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> <20031008230329.C664@korben.in.tern> In-Reply-To: <20031008230329.C664@korben.in.tern> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:00:54 -0000 Lukas Ertl wrote: >It doesn't start on -CURRENT: > >$ /usr/local/textmakertrial/tm >/usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libXThrStub.so.6" not found > >regards, >le > > > Just fixed. Look at my new post. Best, -mk From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 9 13:01:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A110116A4B3 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08b.verio.de (mail08b.verio.de [213.198.55.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D09D943F85 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:01:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08b.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 1-063249336 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:55:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Thu, 09 Oct 2003 22:01:45 +0200 Message-ID: <3F85BD66.4010808@softmaker.de> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:56:22 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Subject: TextMaker for FreeBSD now also supports FreeBSD 5.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:01:10 -0000 Hmm, that was a bit unexpected. FreeBSD 5.x is not binary-compatible with 4.x; AFAICS all X apps have to be relinked with a different set of libraries. We just did that and now have separate binaries for FreeBSD 4.x and FreeBSD 5.x. If you are interested in the latest trial version of TextMaker for FreeBSD, go to http://www.softmaker.de/tml_en.htm and get the updated binaries. As previously said, I am very interested in all kinds of feedback on TextMaker for FreeBSD. Martin Kotulla SoftMaker Software GmbH From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 9 13:03:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98D6716A4B3 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08b.verio.de (mail08b.verio.de [213.198.55.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CE8ED43FE9 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:03:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08b.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 1-0155239701; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:01:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Thu, 09 Oct 2003 22:07:50 +0200 Message-ID: <3F85BED3.3080500@softmaker.de> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 22:02:27 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." References: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> <3F8482E8.8080303@daleco.biz> In-Reply-To: <3F8482E8.8080303@daleco.biz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:03:06 -0000 Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > Now, the hard part: > > [/usr/local/textmakertrial] [16:23] > #./tm > /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libXThrStub.so.6" not found > Binary incompatibility between FreeBSD 4 and 5. Please get the new trial we just built. Best, -mk From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 9 13:30:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0401216A4B3 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rs6000.univie.ac.at (rs6000.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B258843F93 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:30:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from l.ertl@univie.ac.at) Received: from wireless (adslle.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.102.11]) by rs6000.univie.ac.at (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h99KUZBp019370; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:30:45 +0200 Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:28:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Lukas Ertl To: Martin Kotulla In-Reply-To: <3F85BD66.4010808@softmaker.de> Message-ID: <20031009222816.Y588@korben.in.tern> References: <3F85BD66.4010808@softmaker.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD now also supports FreeBSD 5.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 20:30:51 -0000 On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Martin Kotulla wrote: > We just did that and now have separate binaries for FreeBSD 4.x and > FreeBSD 5.x. If you are interested in the latest trial version of > TextMaker for FreeBSD, go to http://www.softmaker.de/tml_en.htm and get > the updated binaries. Ok, the 5.x version runs very fine on -CURRENT! regards, le -- Lukas Ertl eMail: l.ertl@univie.ac.at UNIX Systemadministrator Tel.: (+43 1) 4277-14073 Vienna University Computer Center Fax.: (+43 1) 4277-9140 University of Vienna http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~le/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 9 14:19:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A629716A4B3 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:19:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B219143FE3 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1A7iBF-0003nu-00; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:18:41 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:18:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: Anthony Chavez In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: bsdadvocacy@bsdadvocacy.org Subject: Re: [bsdadvocacy] my bsdportal.org project X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:19:23 -0000 On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Anthony Chavez wrote: > You may have the makings of a good site here. I don't know of a single > site that simply catalogs all of the BSD resources out on the net, apart > From the obvious directories (Google, dmoz.org, Yahoo, etc.), which > could do a better job. If you want my suggestion, you should consider I started bsd.reedmedia.net almost four? years ago. Its database was also used by BSD Today for a couple years (but then they got way out of date). It is also used by www.BSDnewsletter.com. It is far from complete, but I do have a TODO list that has another 111 entries to add ... Jeremy C. Reed http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 9 16:22:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E5D316A4B3 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA7A43FEA for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:22:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.234]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:25:11 -0500 Message-ID: <3F85ED9D.3090700@daleco.biz> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 18:22:05 -0500 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030920 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Kotulla References: <3F85BD66.4010808@softmaker.de> In-Reply-To: <3F85BD66.4010808@softmaker.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Oct 2003 23:25:11.0750 (UTC) FILETIME=[95F71660:01C38EBC] cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD now also supports FreeBSD 5.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 23:22:42 -0000 Recently, Martin Kotulla wrote: > I guess you could consider that as a commitment to the FreeBSD > operating system and its users. And, *the very next day*, Martin Kotulla wrote: > Hmm, that was a bit unexpected. FreeBSD 5.x is not binary-compatible > with 4.x; AFAICS all X apps have to be relinked with a different set > of libraries. > > We just did that and now have separate binaries for FreeBSD 4.x and > FreeBSD 5.x. If you are interested in the latest trial version of > TextMaker for FreeBSD, go to http://www.softmaker.de/tml_en.htm and > get the updated binaries. > > As previously said, I am very interested in all kinds of feedback on > TextMaker for FreeBSD. > > Martin Kotulla > SoftMaker Software GmbH Martin, I would consider the fact that you relinked and reposted within one day a rather extraordinary demonstration of "commitment to FreeBSD and its users." I can't see some of the big U$ $oftware companies doing that --- but perhaps things are looking up. As for the product, my initial impression is rather favorable, but as I'm running 5.1 and waiting for Java, I can't compare it to OO. However, if it comes in as handy as I think it may, and my accounting department can pay my salary for October, you may have at least one customer in 29 days or so. Thank you, Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 05:50:40 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31DB716A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 05:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu (GS166.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.205.169]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 37BE643F85 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 05:50:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpelleg@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16262.43787.941530.439241@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:50:19 -0400 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailer: VM 6.90 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid From: Dan Pelleg Sender: dpelleg+@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu Subject: CNET: amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Dan Pelleg List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:50:40 -0000 The following quote is from http://news.com.com/2100-1006_3-5089274.html (currently linked from the front page): "Sun Microsystems' Solaris will become the third operating system to take advantage of Advanced Micro Devices' 64-bit Opteron processor." With the other two being Linux and Microsoft Windows. Besides mailing the author and pointing out his error, does it make sense for someone (the FreeBSD Foundation?) to issue a press release regarding Opteron support? From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 05:59:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32EDE16A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 05:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org (bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org [198.22.63.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ADDE43FE9 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 05:59:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org) Received: from bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org (mwlucas@localhost [127.0.0.1])h9AD4VUp098494; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:04:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost)h9AD4V5r098493; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:04:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:04:31 -0400 From: "Michael W. Lucas" To: Dan Pelleg Message-ID: <20031010130431.GA98310@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> References: <16262.43787.941530.439241@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <16262.43787.941530.439241@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=4.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CNET: amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:59:23 -0000 AMD64 is still a Tier 2 platform. We're *almost* there, but Peter has some more work to do. On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 08:50:19AM -0400, Dan Pelleg wrote: > > The following quote is from http://news.com.com/2100-1006_3-5089274.html > (currently linked from the front page): > > "Sun Microsystems' Solaris will become the third operating system to take > advantage of Advanced Micro Devices' 64-bit Opteron processor." > > With the other two being Linux and Microsoft Windows. Besides mailing the > author and pointing out his error, does it make sense for someone (the > FreeBSD Foundation?) to issue a press release regarding Opteron support? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org Today's chance of throwing it all away to start a goat farm: 41.8% http://www.BlackHelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Absolute OpenBSD: http://www.AbsoluteOpenBSD.com/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 06:15:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F6C316A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu (GS166.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.205.169]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CE4CE43FD7 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:15:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dpelleg@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16262.45280.83258.865374@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:15:12 -0400 To: "Michael W. Lucas" In-Reply-To: <20031010130431.GA98310@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> References: <16262.43787.941530.439241@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu> <20031010130431.GA98310@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.90 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid From: Dan Pelleg Sender: dpelleg+@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CNET: amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Dan Pelleg List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:15:38 -0000 Agreed. However that article talks about release in 2004 [beta in Q1, and a full release "later"]. It's fine for the foundation to refrain from announcing vaporware. But I still maintain that this article's author needs to be made aware of his mistake in enumerating all the AMD64 vaporware :) Michael W. Lucas writes: > AMD64 is still a Tier 2 platform. > > We're *almost* there, but Peter has some more work to do. > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 08:50:19AM -0400, Dan Pelleg wrote: > > > > The following quote is from http://news.com.com/2100-1006_3-5089274.html > > (currently linked from the front page): > > > > "Sun Microsystems' Solaris will become the third operating system to take > > advantage of Advanced Micro Devices' 64-bit Opteron processor." > > > > With the other two being Linux and Microsoft Windows. Besides mailing the > > author and pointing out his error, does it make sense for someone (the > > FreeBSD Foundation?) to issue a press release regarding Opteron support? From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 06:17:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 713B316A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org (bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org [198.22.63.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DA8843FAF for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:17:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org) Received: from bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org (mwlucas@localhost [127.0.0.1])h9ADMOUp098618; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:22:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost)h9ADMOED098617; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:22:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:22:24 -0400 From: "Michael W. Lucas" To: Dan Pelleg Message-ID: <20031010132224.GB98310@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> References: <16262.43787.941530.439241@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu> <20031010130431.GA98310@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <16262.45280.83258.865374@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <16262.45280.83258.865374@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=4.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CNET: amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:17:16 -0000 Yes, of course. I was addressing the press release part, which is what I do. :-) On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 09:15:12AM -0400, Dan Pelleg wrote: > > Agreed. However that article talks about release in 2004 [beta in Q1, and a > full release "later"]. It's fine for the foundation to refrain from > announcing vaporware. But I still maintain that this article's author needs > to be made aware of his mistake in enumerating all the AMD64 vaporware :) > > > Michael W. Lucas writes: > > AMD64 is still a Tier 2 platform. > > > > We're *almost* there, but Peter has some more work to do. > > > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 08:50:19AM -0400, Dan Pelleg wrote: > > > > > > The following quote is from http://news.com.com/2100-1006_3-5089274.html > > > (currently linked from the front page): > > > > > > "Sun Microsystems' Solaris will become the third operating system to take > > > advantage of Advanced Micro Devices' 64-bit Opteron processor." > > > > > > With the other two being Linux and Microsoft Windows. Besides mailing the > > > author and pointing out his error, does it make sense for someone (the > > > FreeBSD Foundation?) to issue a press release regarding Opteron support? > -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org Today's chance of throwing it all away to start a goat farm: 41.8% http://www.BlackHelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Absolute OpenBSD: http://www.AbsoluteOpenBSD.com/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 08:41:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18EF716A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F1F43F3F for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:41:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1A7zO2-0004kG-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:41:02 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:41:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: Dan Pelleg In-Reply-To: <16262.43787.941530.439241@gs166.sp.cs.cmu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org Subject: Re: CNET: amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:41:28 -0000 On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Dan Pelleg wrote: > The following quote is from http://news.com.com/2100-1006_3-5089274.html > (currently linked from the front page): > > "Sun Microsystems' Solaris will become the third operating system to take > advantage of Advanced Micro Devices' 64-bit Opteron processor." > > With the other two being Linux and Microsoft Windows. Besides mailing the > author and pointing out his error, does it make sense for someone (the > FreeBSD Foundation?) to issue a press release regarding Opteron support? If anyone follows up to CNET, be sure to mention NetBSD too. http://www.bsdnewsletter.com/2003/05/News81.html http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543_5730~32703,00.html http://www.wasabisystems.com/news/pr20020625.html http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/amd64/ Jeremy C. Reed http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 09:47:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 451EF16A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail7.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.207]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82FD843F3F for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:47:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 23329 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 16:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender )encrypted SMTP for ; 10 Oct 2003 16:47:54 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9AGlbce026500; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:47:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.4 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3F85ED9D.3090700@daleco.biz> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:47:41 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD now also supports FreeBSD 5.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:47:56 -0000 On 09-Oct-2003 Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > As for the product, my initial impression is rather favorable, but as > I'm running 5.1 and waiting for Java, I can't compare it to OO. You can build OO from ports on -CURRENT, btw. It took about 23 hours on my P3/700 laptop, but it does work. I used Impress for the slides for my BSDCon talk this year. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 10:45:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154D016A4B3; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1549243F3F; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:45:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (neutrino.centtech.com [204.177.173.28]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9AHjt6T085798; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:45:55 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3F86F047.1070003@centtech.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:45:43 -0500 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD now also supports FreeBSD 5.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:45:58 -0000 John Baldwin wrote: >On 09-Oct-2003 Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > > >>As for the product, my initial impression is rather favorable, but as >>I'm running 5.1 and waiting for Java, I can't compare it to OO. >> >> > >You can build OO from ports on -CURRENT, btw. It took about 23 hours >on my P3/700 laptop, but it does work. I used Impress for the slides >for my BSDCon talk this year. > Or use the package and it's done in about 3 minutes.. :) Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology All generalizations are false, including this one. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 12:24:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0892D16A4B3; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CB743FAF; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:24:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.108]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:27:11 -0500 Message-ID: <3F870752.3010108@daleco.biz> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:24:02 -0500 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030920 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2003 19:27:12.0281 (UTC) FILETIME=[8126C890:01C38F64] cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD now also supports FreeBSD 5.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:24:44 -0000 John Baldwin wrote: >On 09-Oct-2003 Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > > >>As for the product, my initial impression is rather favorable, but as >>I'm running 5.1 and waiting for Java, I can't compare it to OO. >> >> > >You can build OO from ports on -CURRENT, btw. It took about 23 hours >on my P3/700 laptop, but it does work. I used Impress for the slides >for my BSDCon talk this year. > Really? Hmm, if I can get it working, my build should be faster (Athlon 1800+ here...) AFAIR, when I started /usr/ports/editors/openoffice it decided it needed Java, & asked me to download it manually. I don't recall whether or not I decided that download ever got here (dialup, 44,000 on a good day) and perhaps I wrongly assumed that when the FBSD Foundation said that Java wasn't working on 5.x, they were correct. Speaking of FBSDF, aren't you part of that? Maybe I read wrongly... Anyway, I didn't finish setting up the JDK/SDK as a result of that info. If I have time, I might go ahead and see. If I don't, I may just send softmaker a check. I guess I've got 28 days to decide, m/l.... Thanks for the heads up, anyway... KDK From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 12:37:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1BC16A4B3; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (ms-2.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D67543FD7; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:37:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from r220-1 (r220-1.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.3.31]) by ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HMK007GR3U967@ms-dienst.rz.rwth-aachen.de>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:37:22 +0200 (MEST) Received: from relay.RWTH-Aachen.DE ([134.130.3.1]) by r220-1 (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:37:21 +0200 (MEST) Received: from haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (daemon@haakonia.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.92]) h9AJbKsU022793; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:37:20 +0200 (MEST) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) by haakonia.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3F41B; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:37:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B8275469F; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:37:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:37:19 +0200 From: Christian Brueffer In-reply-to: <3F870752.3010108@daleco.biz> To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Message-id: <20031010193719.GD643@unixpages.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; boundary=BI5RvnYi6R4T2M87; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-PGP-Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D References: <3F870752.3010108@daleco.biz> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD now also supports FreeBSD 5.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:37:25 -0000 --BI5RvnYi6R4T2M87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 02:24:02PM -0500, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wro= te: > John Baldwin wrote: >=20 > >On 09-Oct-2003 Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > >=20 > > > >>As for the product, my initial impression is rather favorable, but as > >>I'm running 5.1 and waiting for Java, I can't compare it to OO. > >> =20 > >> > > > >You can build OO from ports on -CURRENT, btw. It took about 23 hours > >on my P3/700 laptop, but it does work. I used Impress for the slides > >for my BSDCon talk this year. > > > Really? >=20 > Hmm, if I can get it working, my build should be faster > (Athlon 1800+ here...) AFAIR, when I started > /usr/ports/editors/openoffice it decided it needed Java, > & asked me to download it manually. I don't recall > whether or not I decided that download ever got > here (dialup, 44,000 on a good day) and perhaps > I wrongly assumed that when the FBSD Foundation > said that Java wasn't working on 5.x, they were correct. > Speaking of FBSDF, aren't you part of that? Maybe > I read wrongly... >=20 The 'not working on 5.X' part is true for the binary java packages the FreeBSD Foundation provides. Of course you can build the java ports on 5.X and they will work. - Christian --=20 Christian Brueffer chris@unixpages.org brueffer@FreeBSD.org GPG Key: http://people.freebsd.org/~brueffer/brueffer.key.asc GPG Fingerprint: A5C8 2099 19FF AACA F41B B29B 6C76 178C A0ED 982D --BI5RvnYi6R4T2M87 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/hwpvbHYXjKDtmC0RAjN1AJwKZPDCoAlVgGMu8LfH9LPSaNz3vgCgj1Mg DpoCRVx9+IeTB7nhJWQn1rk= =aOPc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BI5RvnYi6R4T2M87-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 12:50:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF8016A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail5.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44F3843FA3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:50:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 15444 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 19:50:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender )encrypted SMTP for ; 10 Oct 2003 19:50:40 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9AJoZce027195; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:50:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.4 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3F870752.3010108@daleco.biz> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:50:42 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD now also supports FreeBSD 5.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:50:51 -0000 On 10-Oct-2003 Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > John Baldwin wrote: > >>On 09-Oct-2003 Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: >> >> >>>As for the product, my initial impression is rather favorable, but as >>>I'm running 5.1 and waiting for Java, I can't compare it to OO. >>> >>> >> >>You can build OO from ports on -CURRENT, btw. It took about 23 hours >>on my P3/700 laptop, but it does work. I used Impress for the slides >>for my BSDCon talk this year. >> > Really? > > Hmm, if I can get it working, my build should be faster > (Athlon 1800+ here...) AFAIR, when I started > /usr/ports/editors/openoffice it decided it needed Java, > & asked me to download it manually. I don't recall > whether or not I decided that download ever got > here (dialup, 44,000 on a good day) and perhaps > I wrongly assumed that when the FBSD Foundation > said that Java wasn't working on 5.x, they were correct. > Speaking of FBSDF, aren't you part of that? Maybe > I read wrongly... > > Anyway, I didn't finish setting up the JDK/SDK > as a result of that info. If I have time, I might go > ahead and see. If I don't, I may just send softmaker > a check. I guess I've got 28 days to decide, m/l.... > > Thanks for the heads up, anyway... I'm not part of the foundation, no. However, you can either build OO using the Linux JDK (which you may have to fetch manually). Or you can use the Linux JDK to bootstrap building a BSD JDK on current using the /usr/ports/java/jdk13 port. Note that you will have to follow the directions to download both the jdk source as well as the patches. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 13:03:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7BF16A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web40414.mail.yahoo.com (web40414.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2490943FBD for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:03:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from catlord17@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031010200342.87516.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.75.73.109] by web40414.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:03:42 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:03:42 -0700 (PDT) From: RexFelis To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Building OO from ports. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:03:42 -0000 --- John Baldwin wrote: > > On 09-Oct-2003 Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. > wrote: > > As for the product, my initial impression is > rather favorable, but as > > I'm running 5.1 and waiting for Java, I can't > compare it to OO. > > You can build OO from ports on -CURRENT, btw. > It took about 23 hours > on my P3/700 laptop, but it does work. I used > Impress for the slides > for my BSDCon talk this year. > > -- > > John Baldwin <>< > http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ > "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - > http://www.FreeBSD.org/ > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" I built OO from ports on a dial up connection. Twice. What takes a long time is downloading everything. The compiling takes only a few hours on my computer (1.533 GHz, 512 megs ram). Someone once told me that 'mere mortals' should never attempt to build KDE or OO from ports. This, of course could be nothing other than a challenge, so I tried. It took some work, but I did it. And this is more a testament to the skill of the port teams than myself. Thanks for the great work, Ports teams! Ports rock. Now I can write in my favorite word processor. Of course, TextMaker is looking pretty good right at the moment, as well... Shannon __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 13:18:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5494516A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:18:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9007843FDD for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:18:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from question+advocacy@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E9E9C538A; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:18:19 -0700 From: Linh Pham To: RexFelis Message-ID: <20031010201819.GD49778@q.closedsrc.org> References: <20031010200342.87516.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031010200342.87516.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: closedsrc.org Mail-Copies-To: poster X-PGP-Key: http://closedsrc.org/~question/pubkey.asc cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Building OO from ports. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:18:25 -0000 --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2003-10-10 13:03 -0700, RexFelis wrote: # I built OO from ports on a dial up connection.=20 # Twice. What takes a long time is downloading # everything. The compiling takes only a few hours # on my computer (1.533 GHz, 512 megs ram). Downloading the main source tarball and the Mozilla tarball that it uses does take quite a while. Compile times depend mostly on the speed of the processor, amount of memory and the speed of the hard drive. It took my P3-800 laptop with a 4200RPM hard drive over 12 hours to compile. My P3-500 with 256MB of RAM and a 7200RPM hard drive took over 20 hours to compile. Then on my dual Xeon 2.4 under 5.1-RELEASE (SMP enabled) took under 4 hours to complete the build and install. For me, I definitely notice a nice boost in the program's response when building it from ports compared to using the latest binary package. --=20 Linh Pham question+advocacy@closedsrc.org Webmaster and FreeBSD Geek http://closedsrc.org Apprentice Manager Editor and Writer http://www.daemonnews.org Courage: The things I do for love | And So Western Civilization Crumbles --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/hxQLwhofDeWkDMIRAvEFAKCJwerMCVkD3dki7YIgqygVJ7+eHgCfVmQZ p3rz8Z4ewUJwz+0f7ih7rig= =FcdI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 13:37:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA7516A4BF for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:37:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0367C43F75 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:37:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:2638 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1A840g-0006IT-3l; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:37:14 -0700 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:33:57 -0700 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TRYRDL4A; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:33:01 -0700 From: Johnson David To: Martin Kotulla , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:36:00 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <3F85BD66.4010808@softmaker.de> In-Reply-To: <3F85BD66.4010808@softmaker.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310101336.01196.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1A840g-0006IT-3l*w1LWF6KAv9.* X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD now also supports FreeBSD 5.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:37:29 -0000 On Thursday 09 October 2003 12:56 pm, Martin Kotulla wrote: > As previously said, I am very interested in all kinds of feedback on > TextMaker for FreeBSD. I doesn't pop up instantly, as some reviews have said, but its certainly is speedy. Much more so than OpenOffice. It handles the Word documents floating around work just fine. It handles Word docs with tables better than OO does. I still need to sit down with it and do some real-world document creation with it, but from what I can see so far, it's a bargain for $50. I would use it instead of AbiWord, and if it does everything I use OpenOffice for, I will probably buy it. One wishlist: left/right pages (or page styles) would be extremely useful for double sided printouts that need to be bound. David p.s. I'll still keep OpenOffice though, because I need the spreadsheet and presentation software at work. p.p.s. Does purchase of the software allow installation and usage at both home and work by the same individual? From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 13:47:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED29616A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08a.verio.de (mail08a.verio.de [213.198.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C26E143FD7 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:47:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08a.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 1-0522938836; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:47:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:53:25 +0200 Message-ID: <3F871B01.40905@softmaker.de> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:48:01 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Johnson David References: <3F85BD66.4010808@softmaker.de> <200310101336.01196.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> In-Reply-To: <200310101336.01196.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD now also supports FreeBSD 5.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:47:29 -0000 David: Johnson David wrote: >One wishlist: left/right pages (or page styles) would be extremely >useful for double sided printouts that need to be bound. > > > Format > Chapter, turn on "Facing Pages" and set up the gutter there. Also, "Facing Pages" gives you separate master pages (and headers and footers) for left and right pages. >David > >p.s. I'll still keep OpenOffice though, because I need the spreadsheet >and presentation software at work. > > > We are working on our PlanMaker spreadsheet and DataMaker database package. >p.p.s. Does purchase of the software allow installation and usage at >both home and work by the same individual? > > > Yes, install on as many computers as you like as long as there is only one concurrent use per license. Martin Kotulla SoftMaker Software GmbH From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 15:35:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E6C16A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lilzmailfe01.liwest.at (lilzmailfe01.liwest.at [212.33.55.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E99843F75 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:35:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dgw@liwest.at) Received: from cm58-27.liwest.at ([212.33.58.27]) by lilzmailfe01.liwest.at with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1A85rB-00043r-5r; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:35:33 +0200 From: Daniela To: RexFelis , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:32:58 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <20031010200342.87516.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031010200342.87516.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310110032.58527.dgw@liwest.at> Subject: Re: Building OO from ports. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:35:35 -0000 On Friday 10 October 2003 20:03, RexFelis wrote: > Someone once told me that 'mere mortals' should > never attempt to build KDE or OO from ports. Why not? I build everything from source (with added debug symbols), and I'm still pretty new to both FreeBSD and UNIX (had about one month experience when I started compiling). Daniela From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 16:40:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1021D16A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D1843FCB for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:40:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: by fubar.adept.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7BEDB15227; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76F4915226 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:40:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Hoskins To: advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200310110032.58527.dgw@liwest.at> Message-ID: <20031010163900.H53164@fubar.adept.org> References: <20031010200342.87516.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> <200310110032.58527.dgw@liwest.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Building OO from ports. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:40:28 -0000 On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Daniela wrote: > On Friday 10 October 2003 20:03, RexFelis wrote: > > Someone once told me that 'mere mortals' should > > never attempt to build KDE or OO from ports. > Why not? I build everything from source (with added debug symbols), and I'm > still pretty new to both FreeBSD and UNIX (had about one month experience > when I started compiling). because they've both broken horribly in the past? ;) seriously though, the time i had an issue with OO, the maintainer was super responsive... so unless you're afraid of email, there's not much to fear... beside the disk space requirements, of course. -mrh -- From: "Spam Catcher" To: spam-catcher@adept.org Do NOT send email to the address listed above or you will be added to a blacklist! From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 21:39:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5608016A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com (montage.altserver.com [63.247.74.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6679E43FD7 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:39:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rbagby@yore.net) Received: from adsl-66-141-68-185.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net ([66.141.68.185] helo=a9d2f6) by montage.altserver.com with asmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1A8BX9-00059F-7e for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:39:15 -0700 Message-ID: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> From: "R.Bagby" To: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:38:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - yore.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:39:19 -0000 Found this on a google search. The comments were incredible. Very unfortunate if this is the only view people have of FreeBSD users. BABE in the Woods: A Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD Open for Business ... used one of the major BSD variants (other than the highly customized Mac OS X). Ed Hurst, a writer and a long time GNU/Linux user, decided to give FreeBSD a try ... From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 21:46:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC73816A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEB7D43FBD for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:46:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfak@telus.net) Received: from diamond ([206.116.218.27]) by priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031011044658.QUSU23472.priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net@diamond>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:46:58 -0600 Message-ID: <001601c38fb2$b4bf1c40$9801a8c0@diamond> From: "Peter Kieser" To: "R.Bagby" , References: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:46:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:47:00 -0000 Actually.. in general, it seems to usually be the Linux users that have the "RTFM" approach, other then us ourselves. We have an awesome handbook to RTFM to, compared to anything that is available for Linux. In any case, in general I have found better support for FreeBSD then I ever will with anything other operating system, except when I'm trying to get driver problems fixed (Which is almost impossible) or troubleshooting a problem. --Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.Bagby" To: Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:38 PM Subject: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? Found this on a google search. The comments were incredible. Very unfortunate if this is the only view people have of FreeBSD users. BABE in the Woods: A Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD Open for Business ... used one of the major BSD variants (other than the highly customized Mac OS X). Ed Hurst, a writer and a long time GNU/Linux user, decided to give FreeBSD a try ... _______________________________________________ freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 22:15:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0182016A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF4843F93 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:15:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net) Received: from 220.st-louis-105-110rs.mo.dial-access.att.net ([12.85.134.220]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2003101105151511200hkgice>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:15:15 +0000 From: Jonathan To: Advocacy Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:15:20 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> <001601c38fb2$b4bf1c40$9801a8c0@diamond> In-Reply-To: <001601c38fb2$b4bf1c40$9801a8c0@diamond> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310110015.21004.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:15:18 -0000 On Friday 10 October 2003 11:46 pm, Peter Kieser wrote: > Actually.. in general, it seems to usually be the Linux users that have the > "RTFM" approach, other then us ourselves. We have an awesome handbook to > RTFM to, compared to anything that is available for Linux. The "If you ask advice, you'll get polite versions of 'RTFM' mostly." may very well come from the #freebsd irc channel, on freenode.net. I have gone in there once or twice and witnessed really rude behavior. #freebsd is an excellent reason not to use FreeBSD. I would not dare ask a question there; I think it's run by professional (l337) sysadmin guys who are into sadism. -- Kind regards, Jonathan From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 22:31:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19DE616A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44A3643F3F for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:31:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.52]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:33:58 -0500 Message-ID: <3F879583.2050407@daleco.biz> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:30:43 -0500 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030920 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathan References: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> <001601c38fb2$b4bf1c40$9801a8c0@diamond> <200310110015.21004.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> In-Reply-To: <200310110015.21004.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Oct 2003 05:33:59.0484 (UTC) FILETIME=[458917C0:01C38FB9] cc: Advocacy Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:31:29 -0000 Jonathan wrote: >On Friday 10 October 2003 11:46 pm, Peter Kieser wrote: > > >>Actually.. in general, it seems to usually be the Linux users that have the >>"RTFM" approach, other then us ourselves. We have an awesome handbook to >>RTFM to, compared to anything that is available for Linux. >> >> > > The "If you ask advice, you'll get polite versions of 'RTFM' mostly." may >very well come from the #freebsd irc channel, on freenode.net. I have gone in >there once or twice and witnessed really rude behavior. #freebsd is an >excellent reason not to use FreeBSD. I would not dare ask a question there; I >think it's run by professional (l337) sysadmin guys who are into sadism. > Possible. Several posters on that forum noted that no one named Ed had ever posted to questions@..... Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 23:41:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1EC016A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lakemtao06.cox.net (lakemtao06.cox.net [68.1.17.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFB7843F75 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:41:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com) Received: from fortytwo ([68.109.49.234]) by lakemtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031011064131.NOAX10862.lakemtao06.cox.net@fortytwo>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:41:31 -0400 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:40:22 -0500 From: Vulpes Velox To: Jonathan Message-Id: <20031011014022.1c83c743.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> In-Reply-To: <200310110015.21004.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> References: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> <001601c38fb2$b4bf1c40$9801a8c0@diamond> <200310110015.21004.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Advocacy Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:41:34 -0000 On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:15:20 -0500 Jonathan wrote: > On Friday 10 October 2003 11:46 pm, Peter Kieser wrote: > > Actually.. in general, it seems to usually be the Linux users that have the > > "RTFM" approach, other then us ourselves. We have an awesome handbook to > > RTFM to, compared to anything that is available for Linux. > > The "If you ask advice, you'll get polite versions of 'RTFM' mostly." may > very well come from the #freebsd irc channel, on freenode.net. I have gone in > there once or twice and witnessed really rude behavior. #freebsd is an > excellent reason not to use FreeBSD. I would not dare ask a question there; I > think it's run by professional (l337) sysadmin guys who are into sadism. The occasional rude behavior is the nature of irc, you will see the same thing on linux channels too. I personally have had many more negative experience when dealing with linux users than freebsd users. Generally #freebsd on freenode tends to be pretty good... as long as you bother reading stuff and then asking questions... if some one points you at a piece of material read it and if you still have questions, then ask... some questions will also go unanswered because no one knows or no one cares enough answer it... this is especially true for odd questions... From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 10 23:48:42 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB5016A4B3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6E843FA3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:48:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net) Received: from 220.st-louis-105-110rs.mo.dial-access.att.net ([12.85.134.220]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2003101106483711200hke5ke>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:48:37 +0000 From: Jonathan To: Advocacy Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:48:42 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> In-Reply-To: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310110148.42949.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:48:42 -0000 On Friday 10 October 2003 11:38 pm, R.Bagby wrote: > Found this on a google search. > > The comments were incredible. > > Very unfortunate if this is the only view people have of FreeBSD users. I read a few of the comments and they paint a very unflattering view of the FreeBSD community. Unfortunately, FreeBSD has brought some of this upon themselves. 1) Most newbies require CD's to do an install yet FreeBSD mall has terrible advertising for it's CD's. There are no screenshots of Gnome or Kde and no package descriptions whatsoever. You don't see anything like this (GNOME) http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/screenshots.html or this (KDE) http://freebsd.kde.org/screenshots.php at FreeBSD mall. Furthermore OpenOffice is not on the RELEASE Cd's. That is a huge mistake. 2) The documentation is sometimes too vague and aimed at computer professionals. I tried to configure a firewall using "Dialup firewalling with FreeBSD" and I could not get it to work ( http://www.freebsd.org/doc/ en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/dialup-firewall/index.html ). I finally went and read the tutorials at obfuscation.org. I say sometimes because for the most part the documentation is extremely good. Newbies require straight forward imperative commands like so: a) to configure IPF do: step 1) make a file in /etc called ipf.rules like so: block in all pass in on dc0 all pass out on dc0 all pass out on tun0 proto udp from any to any keep state pass out on tun0 proto tcp from any to any keep state step 2) ..... There is a tendency to over explain things. Don't tell me about the birth pains, just deliver the baby. The detailed explanations are best left to Greg Lehey's book, The Complete FreeBSD. 3) While FreeBSD ports are generally very good there is little coordination amongst the ports maintainers. That is if the ghostscript port gets changed, I find out about it when it breaks printing in the word processors. For a hobbyist it's an annoyance, for a company using FreeBSD desktops it's a disaster. I am not a troll, I am most interested that FreeBSD prospers. I run FreeBSD 4.8 on my used ThinkPad 600E and I have WiFi, USB scanning, USB printing, sound, the winmodem and X working. FreeBSD makes a great desktop OS. -- Kind regards, Jonathan From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 01:41:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3AC16A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from krell.webweaver.net (krell.webweaver.net [64.124.90.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F7C43FA3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:41:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@unixgirl.com) Received: from vorlon1.webweaver.net (adsl-67-112-21-28.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.112.21.28]) by krell.webweaver.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E5B20F02; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200310110015.21004.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:41:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole To: Jonathan cc: Advocacy Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the fo X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:41:27 -0000 Not having the best communications skills at times I have received rude, condisending and RTFM to many things I have posted on the FreeBSD mailing lists. I have seen it on the lists to others as well. So much so that if I were to ask a question again I would use a different name/account so that I would be unidentifed while being put down. I have talked to others who said they just won't post anymore.. So I can certainly see someone new just saying screw this and staying with Linux or Windows. And as for the people "looking for Ed" on the lists. A resturant critic doesn't walk into a resturant and say Hi I'm So and so and I'm writing a story. They would want to be anonymous and treated like everyone else to be able to be honestly objective. Nicole On 11-Oct-03 My Homeland Security Spies reported that Jonathan said: > On Friday 10 October 2003 11:46 pm, Peter Kieser wrote: >> Actually.. in general, it seems to usually be the Linux users that have the >> "RTFM" approach, other then us ourselves. We have an awesome handbook to >> RTFM to, compared to anything that is available for Linux. > > The "If you ask advice, you'll get polite versions of 'RTFM' mostly." may > very well come from the #freebsd irc channel, on freenode.net. I have gone in > there once or twice and witnessed really rude behavior. #freebsd is an > excellent reason not to use FreeBSD. I would not dare ask a question there; I > think it's run by professional (l337) sysadmin guys who are into sadism. > > -- > Kind regards, > Jonathan > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- ******* |\ __ /| (`\ ******* * * | o_o |__ ) ) * * * * // \\ * * * Blessed Be! | Powered by FreeBSD * ----------------------(((---(((-------------------------------- http://www.unixgirl.com - http://www.deviantimages.com http://www.drumslayer.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." --Willy Wonka, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. "Witchcraft is in essence the worship of the powers of this world, beautiful and terrible, but all in a circle under the turning sky that is the One." -C.A. Burland, "Echoes of Magic" "Connecting with energy is something humans have to be open to and talking about and expecting, otherwise the whole human race can go back to pretending that life is about power over others and exploiting the planet. If we go back to doing this, then we won't survive." -James Redfield, "The Celestine Prophecy" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 01:57:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F12616A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1AC443F93 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:57:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: by fubar.adept.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4088015227; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD1B15226 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:57:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Hoskins To: advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200310110015.21004.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20031011015050.G56283@fubar.adept.org> References: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> <200310110015.21004.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:57:06 -0000 On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Jonathan wrote: > The "If you ask advice, you'll get polite versions of 'RTFM' mostly." may > very well come from the #freebsd irc channel, on freenode.net. I have gone in > there once or twice and witnessed really rude behavior. #freebsd is an > excellent reason not to use FreeBSD. I would not dare ask a question there; I > think it's run by professional (l337) sysadmin guys who are into sadism. who else would you expect to run an IRC channel? ;) UNIX geeks have always shouted "RTFM"... BSD geeks, Linux geeks... and many geeks before them. in all fairness, i'd expect a hardened GNU hacker to have slightly thicker skin. i thought that was a natural evolutionry trait required for survival by any opensource proponent. -mrh -- From: "Spam Catcher" To: spam-catcher@adept.org Do NOT send email to the address listed above or you will be added to a blacklist! From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 02:13:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0A6A16A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D16543FA3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:13:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: by fubar.adept.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0DD6115227; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 090B315226 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:13:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Hoskins To: advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200310110148.42949.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <20031011015915.D56283@fubar.adept.org> References: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> <200310110148.42949.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:13:11 -0000 On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Jonathan wrote: > I read a few of the comments and they paint a very unflattering view of the > FreeBSD community. actually, they paint an unflattering view of IRC. that's nothing new. > 1) Most newbies require CD's to do an install yet FreeBSD mall has terrible > advertising for it's CD's. There are no screenshots of Gnome or Kde and no > package descriptions whatsoever. You don't see anything like this (GNOME) > http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/screenshots.html or this (KDE) > http://freebsd.kde.org/screenshots.php at FreeBSD mall. Furthermore > OpenOffice is not on the RELEASE Cd's. That is a huge mistake. screenshots have marginal value. (since some of us don't want gnome or kde environments installed, the screenshots would tell us nothing about the specific operating environment we would configure.) still, it can't hurt and it seems like it'd be easy enough for freebsdmall to link to screenshots if they're already hosted on freebsd.org. how big is openoffice again? how much space are free on the release CDs? i wouldn't want to second guess packaging decissions like that without having all the facts. > 2) The documentation is sometimes too vague and aimed at computer > professionals. I tried to configure a firewall using "Dialup firewalling with > FreeBSD" and I could not get it to work ( http://www.freebsd.org/doc/ this is a result of starting as a "server OS" (that's really still the goal, it just happens to make a great desktop too). a lot of the system and misc docs are written by computer professionals. :) the best way to get a plethora of docs at various reading levels/styles is to have a lot of people writing documentation. if possible, document (from your perspective) what you have to do to get things working and submit that back to the doc project. http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/index.html (of course you can also host docs yourself of submit articles to any of the bsd/opensource pubs.) > 3) While FreeBSD ports are generally very good there is little coordination > amongst the ports maintainers. That is if the ghostscript port gets changed, > I find out about it when it breaks printing in the word processors. For a > hobbyist it's an annoyance, for a company using FreeBSD desktops it's a > disaster. this is a complex issue to manage, but i'm sure there's always room for improvement. how would you propose increasing coordination or the effectiveness of communication amongst ports maintainers? for a company using opensource desktops, you should be installing standardized packages from your gold/build server(s). don't build randomly updated ports resulting in differing files/libraries/bins on each machine. ;) packages are you friend. at times there are problems with packages too, but that's the case on every OS... and most people i know that have strict requirements build their own packages so they can roll any machine with known results. -mrh -- From: "Spam Catcher" To: spam-catcher@adept.org Do NOT send email to the address listed above or you will be added to a blacklist! From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 04:07:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FAE416A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amsfep14-int.chello.nl (amsfep14-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF1743FBD for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:07:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.142.207]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with ESMTP id <20031011110752.LNWO3677.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:07:52 +0200 Message-ID: <3F87E487.2050003@sitetronics.com> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:07:51 +0200 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030820 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Hoskins References: <20031010200342.87516.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> <200310110032.58527.dgw@liwest.at> <20031010163900.H53164@fubar.adept.org> In-Reply-To: <20031010163900.H53164@fubar.adept.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Building OO from ports. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:07:55 -0000 I've never had problems building OOo from ports. Takes a damn long time, but still. Never wanted to build KDE and never have :) --Devon Mike Hoskins wrote: >On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Daniela wrote: > > >>On Friday 10 October 2003 20:03, RexFelis wrote: >> >> >>>Someone once told me that 'mere mortals' should >>>never attempt to build KDE or OO from ports. >>> >>> >>Why not? I build everything from source (with added debug symbols), and I'm >>still pretty new to both FreeBSD and UNIX (had about one month experience >>when I started compiling). >> >> > >because they've both broken horribly in the past? ;) seriously though, the >time i had an issue with OO, the maintainer was super responsive... so >unless you're afraid of email, there's not much to fear... beside the >disk space requirements, of course. > >-mrh > >-- >From: "Spam Catcher" >To: spam-catcher@adept.org >Do NOT send email to the address listed above or >you will be added to a blacklist! >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 04:21:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF3F16A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4889C43FBD for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:21:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@fishballoon.org) Received: from llama.fishballoon.org ([81.104.195.124]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.comESMTP <20031011112100.EBZG2197.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@llama.fishballoon.org>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:21:00 +0100 Received: from scott by llama.fishballoon.org with local (Exim 4.20) id 1A8HnA-000Ef7-Cs; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:20:12 +0100 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:20:12 +0100 From: Scott Mitchell To: Martin Kotulla Message-ID: <20031011112012.GA55541@llama.fishballoon.org> References: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE-p13 i386 Sender: Scott Mitchell cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:21:05 -0000 On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 10:05:32PM +0200, Martin Kotulla wrote: > Hello, > > we have just updated our web pages to reflect the fact that we now have > TextMaker for FreeBSD as well. I guess you could consider that as a > commitment to the FreeBSD operating system and its users. > > To find out more about TextMaker, go to http://www.softmaker.de/tml_en.htm > > Also, we have a trial version of TextMaker for FreeBSD up. Go ahead, > download it and tell me what you think (sucks - is great - doesn't work > on this FreeBSD version - works fine here) and file bug reports. I am > very interested in your feedback. Hi Martin, One thing I've noticed after a few minutes playing with the TextMaker trial - whenever I pop up a dialog (File->Open or whatever), system load shoot up to 97% and stays there until the dialog is closed. It seems to be spinning in the X server, keeping itself as the active window and on top of all other windows. Interestingly, this doesn't happen if I turn off 'Window Manager Dialogs' in the Look&Feel preferences. This could be something specific to my setup - I'm running XFree86 4.2 and KDE 3.1 on a few-months-old 4.8-STABLE system. Let me know if there's anything else you'd like me to try. Other than that, the program looks pretty good. It's great to see more commercial developers supporting FreeBSD! Scott -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID | "Eagles may soar, but weasels Cambridge, England | 0x54B171B9 | don't get sucked into jet engines" scott at fishballoon.org | 0xAA775B8B | -- Anon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 04:34:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864E316A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail08a.verio.de (mail08a.verio.de [213.198.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B08443F85 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:34:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08a.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.87vs) with SMTP id 4-0725142044; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:34:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:40:12 +0200 Message-ID: <3F87EAD8.7040401@softmaker.de> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:34:48 +0200 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Mitchell References: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> <20031011112012.GA55541@llama.fishballoon.org> In-Reply-To: <20031011112012.GA55541@llama.fishballoon.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:34:17 -0000 Scott: Scott Mitchell wrote: >Hi Martin, > >One thing I've noticed after a few minutes playing with the TextMaker >trial - whenever I pop up a dialog (File->Open or whatever), system load >shoot up to 97% and stays there until the dialog is closed. It seems to >be spinning in the X server, keeping itself as the active window and on >top of all other windows. Interestingly, this doesn't happen if I turn >off 'Window Manager Dialogs' in the Look&Feel preferences. > >This could be something specific to my setup - I'm running XFree86 4.2 and >KDE 3.1 on a few-months-old 4.8-STABLE system. Let me know if there's >anything else you'd like me to try. > > > Doesn't happen here with FreeBSD 4.8, freshly installed with WindowMaker running. Anybody else experience this? >Other than that, the program looks pretty good. It's great to see more >commercial developers supporting FreeBSD! > > Scott > > > Martin Kotulla SoftMaker Software GmbH From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 04:40:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BFD216A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rs6000.univie.ac.at (rs6000.univie.ac.at [131.130.1.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D618743FB1 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:39:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from l.ertl@univie.ac.at) Received: from wireless (adslle.cc.univie.ac.at [131.130.102.11]) by rs6000.univie.ac.at (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h9BBdmBp052344; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:39:50 +0200 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:31:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Lukas Ertl To: Martin Kotulla In-Reply-To: <3F87EAD8.7040401@softmaker.de> Message-ID: <20031011133036.C585@korben.in.tern> References: <3F846E0C.6030001@softmaker.de> <20031011112012.GA55541@llama.fishballoon.org> <3F87EAD8.7040401@softmaker.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for FreeBSD trial now available X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:40:01 -0000 On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Martin Kotulla wrote: > >One thing I've noticed after a few minutes playing with the TextMaker > >trial - whenever I pop up a dialog (File->Open or whatever), system load > >shoot up to 97% and stays there until the dialog is closed. It seems to > >be spinning in the X server, keeping itself as the active window and on > >top of all other windows. Interestingly, this doesn't happen if I turn > >off 'Window Manager Dialogs' in the Look&Feel preferences. > > Doesn't happen here with FreeBSD 4.8, freshly installed with WindowMaker > running. Anybody else experience this? No, not here, on -CURRENT with WindowMaker everything's fine. regards, le -- Lukas Ertl eMail: l.ertl@univie.ac.at UNIX Systemadministrator Tel.: (+43 1) 4277-14073 Vienna University Computer Center Fax.: (+43 1) 4277-9140 University of Vienna http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~le/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 04:49:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AED3416A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ajax.achean.com (ajax.achean.com [212.87.82.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F004143F3F for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:49:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jon.mercer@achean.com) Received: from menelaus.office.achean.com (dsl-217-155-191-93.zen.co.uk [217.155.191.93]) by ajax.achean.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9BBnFFi031166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:49:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jon.mercer@achean.com) Received: from achean.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])h9BBn6XB000772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:49:10 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jon.mercer@achean.com) Message-ID: <3F87EE31.7050105@achean.com> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:49:05 +0100 From: Jon Mercer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030806 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <20031010200342.87516.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com> <200310110032.58527.dgw@liwest.at> <20031010163900.H53164@fubar.adept.org> <3F87E487.2050003@sitetronics.com> In-Reply-To: <3F87E487.2050003@sitetronics.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.55-achean_mailfilter_v1.00 X-Spam-Report: This mail is probably spam. The original message has been attachedunwanted mail in future. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. from ports, especially on my laptop, but I've never encountered a problem issue because of resident gnome1 software and libraries, but not a major issue to someone with moderate abilities. [...] Content analysis details: (-2.60 points, 5 required) X_ACCEPT_LANG (-0.1 points) Has a X-Accept-Language header IN_REP_TO (-0.5 points) Has a In-Reply-To header non-spam MUA (Mozilla)headeremail attributionquoted email text REPLY_WITH_QUOTES (-0.5 points) Reply with quoted text X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55-achean_mailfilter_v1.00 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Subject: Re: Building OO from ports. X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:49:54 -0000 Both KDE and OO take a phenomenal time to build from ports, especially on my laptop, but I've never encountered a problem with either. Installing gnome2 for the first time was more of an issue because of resident gnome1 software and libraries, but not a major issue to someone with moderate abilities. Whoever told you that may have had a bad experience in the past. Ports is the great benefit of FreeBSD, and one of the reasons I recommend it to clients over Linux. Jon Mercer Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > I've never had problems building OOo from ports. Takes a damn long time, > but still. > > Never wanted to build KDE and never have :) > > --Devon > > Mike Hoskins wrote: > >> On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Daniela wrote: >> >> >>> On Friday 10 October 2003 20:03, RexFelis wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Someone once told me that 'mere mortals' should >>>> never attempt to build KDE or OO from ports. >>>> >>> >>> Why not? I build everything from source (with added debug symbols), >>> and I'm >>> still pretty new to both FreeBSD and UNIX (had about one month >>> experience >>> when I started compiling). >>> >> >> >> because they've both broken horribly in the past? ;) seriously though, >> the >> time i had an issue with OO, the maintainer was super responsive... so >> unless you're afraid of email, there's not much to fear... beside the >> disk space requirements, of course. >> >> -mrh >> >> -- >> From: "Spam Catcher" >> To: spam-catcher@adept.org >> Do NOT send email to the address listed above or >> you will be added to a blacklist! >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | ___ ___ | | / | | / | | / /| | / / | | / / | | _____ / / ____ ____ ___ | | / /__| | / ___ \ / /__ / __ \ / _ | | /__ | | / ____ | / / /_/ / ___ \ / /_/ / / / | | / ___ \ | | / / | | / / __ / / \ \ | ___/__ / / / / / / \ \ | | / / | | | |__/ / / / / / | \__/ / | |_| | / / / / | | /__\ /___\ \_____/ /__| /__| \_____/ \__/|_| /__| /__| | | | | www.achean.com | | ============== | | Jon Mercer jon.mercer@achean.com | | | | Mobile 07973 256496 | | | | Tel. 0117 9561211 | | | | Fax 0117 9565637 | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 06:30:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C24716A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [193.197.184.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC15F43FBD for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:30:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with gbsmtp id 1A8Jox-00044x-00; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:30:11 +0200 Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) h9BCX0Qc000493 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:33:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull@kemoauc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id h9BCX0XH000492 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:33:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:32:59 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> <001601c38fb2$b4bf1c40$9801a8c0@diamond> <200310110015.21004.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:30:14 -0000 Jonathan wrote: > #freebsd is an excellent reason not to use FreeBSD. I don't see how the existence of a FreeBSD IRC channel or the lack thereof, much less its contents, impinges on the choice of using FreeBSD. Possibly it depends on how you use the net. Ever since I first encountered IRC a dozen years ago or so, I've always considered it to consist of incoherent grunts that barely qualify as human communication and at best meaningless chatter. I wouldn't dream of seeking any sort of technical help on IRC. Ed Hurst's report seems to center around the usual complaint that things are difficult because they're different from what he's used to. Duh. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 07:33:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5D516A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from essence.sdodson.com (67-50-89-87.br2.tbr.ga.frontiernet.net [67.50.89.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58D743F75 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:33:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from samy@kerneled.com) Received: from beastie.freebsd.local (dial37-82.sbm.net.sa [212.46.37.82]) by essence.sdodson.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id h9BEXpFw088956; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:33:53 GMT (envelope-from samy@kerneled.com) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:35:13 +0300 From: Samy Al Bahra To: Jonathan Message-Id: <20031011173513.7f470c0c.samy@kerneled.com> In-Reply-To: <200310110015.21004.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> References: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> <001601c38fb2$b4bf1c40$9801a8c0@diamond> <200310110015.21004.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> Organization: Kerneled X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5-gtk2-20030906 (GTK+ 2.2.1; i386-portbld-freebsd5.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:33:49 -0000 On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:15:20 -0500 Jonathan wrote: > The "If you ask advice, you'll get polite versions of 'RTFM' mostly." > may very well come from the #freebsd irc channel, on freenode.net. I > have gone in there once or twice and witnessed really rude behavior. > #freebsd is an excellent reason not to use FreeBSD. I would not dare > ask a question there; I think it's run by professional (l337) sysadmin > guys who are into sadism. Give EFnet #FreeBSD a try then :) In all seriousness, the channel is run pretty fairly (meaning trolls are usually kicked off the channel), sane questions are answered. Yes, that is right, usually answered with links to documentation. The channel operators will ban or kick out a user if he repeatedly ignores these references (or is rude, etc...). I realize that any channel called #*FreeBSD* does represent a chunk of the FreeBSD user community. Freenode and its operators has taken major steps in improving the channel's friendliness (from a BOFH channel to a more friendly one)... Eithercase Jonathan, -advocacy is not the best place to discuss the way that #FreeBSD@Freenode is run. Please take it to the channel operators or FreeNode opers. -- +-----------------------------------+ | Samy Al Bahra | samy@kerneled.com | |-----------------------------------| | B3A7 F5BE B2AE 67B1 AC4B | | 0983 956D 1F4A AA54 47CB | |-----------------------------------| | http://www.kerneled.com | +-----------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 08:02:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1787216A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rambo.401.cx (rambo.401.cx [80.65.205.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC6B43F75 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:02:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from 401.cx (rocky [192.168.0.2]) by rambo.401.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9BF2DTn010734; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:02:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <3F881B76.6090403@401.cx> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:02:14 +0200 From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Samy Al Bahra References: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> <001601c38fb2$b4bf1c40$9801a8c0@diamond> <200310110015.21004.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> <20031011173513.7f470c0c.samy@kerneled.com> In-Reply-To: <20031011173513.7f470c0c.samy@kerneled.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:02:28 -0000 Samy Al Bahra wrote: > Give EFnet #FreeBSD a try then :) > > In all seriousness, the channel is run pretty fairly (meaning trolls are > usually kicked off the channel), sane questions are answered. Yes, that > is right, usually answered with links to documentation. The channel > operators will ban or kick out a user if he repeatedly ignores these > references (or is rude, etc...). I used to be a frequent visitor of #freebsd@efnet a few years ago, and I must say that the channel was everything but friendly to newcomers. People were kicked for everything and nothing. They might just politely ask a question that was answered in the FAQ, they might come from a ISP that one of the op's didnt like, they might have a nick that someone found difficult to type or an op could just decide that they didnt like the user so the user should not be allowed to be there. The discussions in the channel were rarely BSD related, or even computer related. The most frequently used words were probably "penis" and/or "poop". Even if the channel usually had several hundreds of users, the people that actually dared to say something could be counted on one hand. Granted, I have not visited the channel lately. The reason I frequented Efnet has disappeared, and #freebsd alone was probably more a reason to leave then to stay. If the channel has changed for the better, noone would like it more then me, but I find it hard to believe. Just my $0.02 -- R From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 08:21:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A2FA16A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E8A43FB1 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:21:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net) Received: from 235.st-louis-108-109rs.mo.dial-access.att.net ([12.85.107.235]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <2003101115211411300c438re>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:21:15 +0000 From: Jonathan To: Advocacy Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:21:20 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200310111021.20897.j.e.drews@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:21:17 -0000 On Saturday 11 October 2003 03:41 am, you wrote: > I have talked to others who said they just won't post anymore.. So I can > certainly see someone new just saying screw this and staying with Linux or > Windows. That is exactly what happens Nicole: When those people unleash those flames never consider the consequences. I have to wonder how many businesses have rejected FreeBSD because some prospect "asked a stupid question". The whole flamming and "RTFM" phenomena is really an ego trip for people who are just so in love with themselves. -- Kind regards, Jonathan From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 08:30:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675F316A4BF for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uol.com.br (smtp.uol.com.br [200.221.11.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9E243FB1 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:30:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fallenbr@uol.com.br) Received: from localhost (200-161-254-37.dsl.telesp.net.br [200.161.254.37]) by traven9.uol.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id E527C2F017 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:30:54 -0300 (BRT) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:32:42 -0300 From: Konrad Scorciapino To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20031011123242.4edb4400.fallenbr@uol.com.br> Organization: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5-gtk2-20030906 (GTK+ 2.2.4; i386-portbld-freebsd4.8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:30:57 -0000 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 11 10:38:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD1416A4B3 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10101.mail.yahoo.com (web10101.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E37E043F75 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:38:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from twigles@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031011173842.97043.qmail@web10101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.5.49.41] by web10101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:38:42 PDT Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:38:42 -0700 (PDT) From: twig les To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <002801c38fb1$95e804e0$0200a8c0@sbcgolbal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: A case of FreeBSD users shooting all FreeBSD users in the foot? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:38:43 -0000 I don't agree that FBSD mailing lists are hostile, but then I came from the misc OpenBSD list so I was already battle-tested. :) Anyway, it seems like this guy is actually more competent than most people when it comes to *nix and computers in general, and he still had problems. To be honest if he plugged away at FBSD for about two weeks before writing again I bet he'd have most all of his problems solved. But what struck me is that maybe it's time for a "FreeBSD for Dummies" book. Before you hit me think about it. FBSD is pretty intimidating to most ppl, especially when you start talking about the network stack being faster than Linux yadda yadda. Something written in "newblish" that didn't get too deep might open up an entire new world of users. I also think the time is right right now since most everyone I know is getting pretty fed up with M$'s games. Also, I was wondering why slashdot would run a Linux->BSD story until I read that the guy didn't have a very good experience. *slaps forehead* --- "R.Bagby" wrote: > Found this on a google search. > > The comments were incredible. > > Very unfortunate if this is the only view people have of > FreeBSD users. > > > > BABE in the Woods: A Linux User Migrates to FreeBSD > Open for Business > ... used one of the major BSD variants (other than the highly > customized > Mac OS X). Ed Hurst, a writer and a long time GNU/Linux user, > decided > to give FreeBSD a try ... > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ===== ----------------------------------------------------------- Get a taste of Religion ... eat a priest! ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com