From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 9 00:58:20 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 557FA16A4CE for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 00:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from skippy.camphill.cz (gprs177-217.eurotel.cz [160.218.177.217]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9271C43FF7 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 00:58:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from zhouska@skippy.camphill.cz) Received: by skippy.camphill.cz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6AA0B376; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 10:03:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 10:03:04 +0100 From: Zbynek Houska To: Mike Hoskins Message-ID: <20031109090304.GA37400@skippy.camphill.cz> References: <20031108181130.GA35505@skippy.camphill.cz> <20031108231103.S11183@fubar.adept.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031108231103.S11183@fubar.adept.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TeXlive for FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:58:20 -0000 On Sat, Nov 08, 2003 at 11:12:19PM -0800, Mike Hoskins wrote: > Hi, > hmm, does their installer install incorrect symlinks? they specificaly > mention i386-freebsd4.8 as a supported platform, so maybe letting them > know about the symlinks would be a good idea? or are you doing the > install under 5.x? > Maybe I'm wrong, but symlinks on this CD are broken, or in other words unreadable under FreeBSD...The only solution was for me to copy whole CD contents on hard drive an then install from it. But, I would rather ask... is the possibility include TeXlive into ports tree. Why? This CD seems to be more up to date and contains more useful tools...(and it's installed from source as well) and has better support for other languages. > -mrh Zbynek > -- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 9 07:52:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964D116A4CF for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 07:52:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp4.tin.it (vsmtp4.tin.it [212.216.176.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D52A43F3F for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 07:52:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (213.45.252.155) by vsmtp4.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F8C844B00DBA8AF; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:51:29 +0100 Message-ID: <000701c3a6d9$5aafca90$9bfc2dd5@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: "Bill Moran" , "Vulpes Velox" References: <000a01c3a59e$429ce460$7baeabd4@workstation> <20031108113432.35b59671.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> <3FAD2AA1.5060500@potentialtech.com> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:51:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Re: the unix desktop was possible once X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:52:01 -0000 Bill Moran wrote: > What would you need in the way of hosting to get this rolling? I post the last message here about this matter, for further details it would be better we post to 'freebsd-chat' or 'freebsd-stable'. Let me know what you'll eventually choose. In my opinion, the best thing would be an official FreeBSD desktop release of the packages contained in 4.6.2 or 4.7, excluding gtk 2.x for a while, which could be based either on a 4.x or on a 5.x operating system. If this shouldn't seem realistic, the only way is the 'adoption' of the desktop above by a private enterprise, because there is a lot to do to pack an ordinated installation, ready for the end users. At the beginning, a free hosting could also be useful. I don't think it would be necessary to modify the installation tools, which still work like a clock, rather than making a good choice of the useful packages. 'End-user' should be intended for longer as a person who reads the manuals and knows the command-line [better than me], on a unix system. VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 9 12:00:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF8216A4CE for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:00:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao05.cox.net (lakemtao05.cox.net [68.1.17.116]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0193C43FD7 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:00:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kitlists@hotpop.com) Received: from fortytwo ([68.109.49.234]) by lakemtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031109195959.IOQQ29834.lakemtao05.cox.net@fortytwo>; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:59:59 -0500 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:58:48 -0600 From: Vulpes Velox To: ".VWV." Message-Id: <20031109135848.3eebea37.kitlists@hotpop.com> In-Reply-To: <000701c3a6d9$5aafca90$9bfc2dd5@workstation> References: <000a01c3a59e$429ce460$7baeabd4@workstation> <20031108113432.35b59671.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> <3FAD2AA1.5060500@potentialtech.com> <000701c3a6d9$5aafca90$9bfc2dd5@workstation> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Vulpes Velox Subject: Re: the unix desktop was possible once X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:00:03 -0000 On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:51:34 +0100 ".VWV." wrote: > > Bill Moran wrote: > > > What would you need in the way of hosting to get this rolling? > > I post the last message here about this matter, for further details it would > be better we post to 'freebsd-chat' or 'freebsd-stable'. Let me know what > you'll eventually choose. > > In my opinion, the best thing would be an official FreeBSD desktop release > of the packages contained in 4.6.2 or 4.7, excluding gtk 2.x for a while, > which could be based either on a 4.x or on a 5.x operating system. > If this shouldn't seem realistic, the only way is the 'adoption' of the > desktop above by a private enterprise, because there is a lot to do to pack > an ordinated installation, ready for the end users. At the beginning, a free > hosting could also be useful. Why not use 4.9 or 4stable? I see no problem using gtk or gtk+. As long as qt is advioded I don't see any real problems. Free hosting is largely a must... look how much various linuxs have managed to totally bungle the idea of creating a desktop by being commercial. > I don't think it would be necessary to modify the installation tools, which > still work like a clock, rather than making a good choice of the useful > packages. 'End-user' should be intended for longer as a person who reads the > manuals and knows the command-line [better than me], on a unix system. Installation tools are cool. Some nicer config tools would go a long way thought. I am currently working on one to make kernel builds simpler. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 9 14:47:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8A816A4CE for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:47:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp4.tin.it (vsmtp4.tin.it [212.216.176.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F02743FCB for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:47:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (212.171.174.214) by vsmtp4.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F8C844B00DDF636 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:47:28 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c3a713$776daf00$d6aeabd4@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: References: <000a01c3a59e$429ce460$7baeabd4@workstation><20031108113432.35b59671.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com><3FAD2AA1.5060500@potentialtech.com><000701c3a6d9$5aafca90$9bfc2dd5@workstation> <20031109135848.3eebea37.kitlists@hotpop.com> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:47:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: Re: the unix desktop was possible once X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:47:31 -0000 Vulpes Velox wrote: > Why not use 4.9 or 4stable? I see no problem using gtk or gtk+. As > long as qt is advioded I don't see any real problems. Free hosting is > largely a must... look how much various linuxs have managed to > totally bungle the idea of creating a desktop by being commercial. I have already explained, for a desktop it is necessary a common look for the various environments. It can be obtained following the GNUstep standard, adopted by Windowmaker. GTK 1.x has the graphical engines to match exactly the same look. It is only necessary to find the way to start that bastard of Nautilus 1.0.6, which should be docked as for desktop and main file manager. As for KDE 3.x, I'll try to hack it to add on the old 'kdestep' style, even if I have no idea if I'll be able of mixing the sources in the correct way. > Installation tools are cool. Some nicer config tools would go a long > way thought. I am currently working on one to make kernel builds > simpler. This is an optional, as for desktops, because simply reading the Handbook and the LINT file, the compilation goes perfectly at the first attempt. In any case, it would be nice to have such tool as a part of a customized 'sysinstall'. VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 9 17:01:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E01C16A4CE for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:01:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao05.cox.net (lakemtao05.cox.net [68.1.17.116]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD9243FF5 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:01:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kitlists@hotpop.com) Received: from fortytwo ([68.109.49.234]) by lakemtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031110010111.KDCN29834.lakemtao05.cox.net@fortytwo>; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 20:01:11 -0500 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:00:00 -0600 From: Vulpes Velox To: ".VWV." Message-Id: <20031109190000.3e453c9c.kitlists@hotpop.com> In-Reply-To: <001301c3a713$776daf00$d6aeabd4@workstation> References: <000a01c3a59e$429ce460$7baeabd4@workstation> <20031108113432.35b59671.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> <3FAD2AA1.5060500@potentialtech.com> <000701c3a6d9$5aafca90$9bfc2dd5@workstation> <20031109135848.3eebea37.kitlists@hotpop.com> <001301c3a713$776daf00$d6aeabd4@workstation> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: the unix desktop was possible once X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:01:16 -0000 On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:47:34 +0100 ".VWV." wrote: > > Vulpes Velox wrote: > > > Why not use 4.9 or 4stable? I see no problem using gtk or gtk+. As > > long as qt is advioded I don't see any real problems. Free hosting is > > largely a must... look how much various linuxs have managed to > > totally bungle the idea of creating a desktop by being commercial. > > > I have already explained, for a desktop it is necessary a common look for > the various environments. It can be obtained following the GNUstep standard, > adopted by Windowmaker. GTK 1.x has the graphical engines to match exactly > the same look. It is only necessary to find the way to start that bastard of > Nautilus 1.0.6, which should be docked as for desktop and main file manager. > As for KDE 3.x, I'll try to hack it to add on the old 'kdestep' style, even > if I have no idea if I'll be able of mixing the sources in the correct way. This is easy to fix... copy the .gtkrc to .gtkrc-2.0... then change the font line... a program that can edit all the config files would be much more useful... > > Installation tools are cool. Some nicer config tools would go a long > > way thought. I am currently working on one to make kernel builds > > simpler. > > This is an optional, as for desktops, because simply reading the Handbook > and the LINT file, the compilation goes perfectly at the first attempt. In > any case, it would be nice to have such tool as a part of a customized > 'sysinstall'. so all toolkits need to look the same, but /stand/sysinstall sucks for handling the config... far easier to edit it by hand then have to mess around with it... and it leaves a lot of things out to... From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 10 01:41:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F351516A4CF for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:41:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com (mail4.messagelabs.com [212.125.75.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D80D043FDF for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:41:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bodonoghue@stockbyte.com) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: bodonoghue@stockbyte.com X-Msg-Ref: server-2.tower-4.messagelabs.com!1068457267!6218933 X-StarScan-Version: 5.1.13; banners=stockbyte.com,-,- Received: (qmail 32404 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2003 09:41:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stockbyte.com) (62.221.11.15) by server-2.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2003 09:41:07 -0000 Received: from [10.5.1.205] (HELO Vader.local.stockbyte.com) by stockbyte.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 1421210 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:41:05 +0000 Received: from localhost.local.stockbyte.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Vader.local.stockbyte.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 334BA187A466 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:31:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Bryan O'Donoghue To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <000a01c3a59e$429ce460$7baeabd4@workstation> References: <000a01c3a59e$429ce460$7baeabd4@workstation> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: stockbyte Message-Id: <1068456694.17989.6.camel@Vader.local.stockbyte.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:31:34 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: the unix desktop was possible once X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: bodonoghue@stockbyte.com List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:41:13 -0000 On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 02:16, .VWV. wrote: > I have understood very well what that manager of Red Hat was trying to > explain. I'm not too sure I'd agree with his sentiments. Such emboldened statements remind me of a certain famous enunciation by our friend Mr Gates declared that "640 kilobytes" of memory was all enough for anybody, hence the misnomer of 'base' memory. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/billgates103747.html Not. ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information on a proactive email security service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 10 08:31:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD2016A4CE for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:31:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.224.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9CE43FB1 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:30:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-advocacy@m.gmane.org) Received: from root by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AJEwK-0005iW-00 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:30:56 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sea.gmane.org ([80.91.224.252]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AJEn0-0005ZR-00 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:21:18 +0100 Received: from news by sea.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AJEn0-0007zU-00 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:21:18 +0100 From: "Scott I. Remick" Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:21:16 -0500 Lines: 10 Message-ID: <13x3ylcacbi6.8mc07s46v3au$.dlg@40tude.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Archive: encrypt User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.5.1 Sender: news Subject: TextMaker for $11.11 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: scott@sremick.net List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:31:00 -0000 Sorry if this appears to be spam. I'm not affiliated w/ SoftMaker in any way. Those of you who checked out TextMaker and liked it might be interested in this 1-day promotion: http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=4558 I actually don't use it myself but got the trial to work fine on my 5.1-RELEASE system. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 10 10:06:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B795A16A4CE for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:06:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org (bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org [198.22.63.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1F143FCB for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:06:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mwlucas@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org) Received: from bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org (mwlucas@localhost [127.0.0.1])hAAI5xLq021804; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:05:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost)hAAI5xBm021803; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:05:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:05:58 -0500 From: "Michael W. Lucas" To: "Scott I. Remick" Message-ID: <20031110180558.GA21545@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> References: <13x3ylcacbi6.8mc07s46v3au$.dlg@40tude.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <13x3ylcacbi6.8mc07s46v3au$.dlg@40tude.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.0 required=4.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TextMaker for $11.11 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:06:02 -0000 Awesome! Thanks for the notice, I just ordered my copy. If you get a CDROM with your order, it's only $19.11. Pretty durn cheap, and a good way to show you support their interest in FreeBSD. On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 11:21:16AM -0500, Scott I. Remick wrote: > Sorry if this appears to be spam. I'm not affiliated w/ SoftMaker in any > way. > > Those of you who checked out TextMaker and liked it might be interested in > this 1-day promotion: > > http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=4558 > > I actually don't use it myself but got the trial to work fine on my > 5.1-RELEASE system. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org Today's chance of throwing it all away to start a goat farm: 41.8% http://www.BlackHelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ Absolute OpenBSD: http://www.AbsoluteOpenBSD.com/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 10 13:01:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA76D16A4CE for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:01:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail08a.verio.de (mail08a.verio.de [213.198.55.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C99A43FE9 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:01:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08a.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.88vs) with SMTP id 1-0642058106 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:01:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:08:37 +0100 Message-ID: <3FAFFCFC.1090500@softmaker.de> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:02:52 +0100 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <13x3ylcacbi6.8mc07s46v3au$.dlg@40tude.net> In-Reply-To: <13x3ylcacbi6.8mc07s46v3au$.dlg@40tude.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Subject: Re: TextMaker for $11.11 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:01:55 -0000 Scott I. Remick wrote: >Sorry if this appears to be spam. I'm not affiliated w/ SoftMaker in any >way. > >Those of you who checked out TextMaker and liked it might be interested in >this 1-day promotion: > >http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=4558 > >I actually don't use it myself but got the trial to work fine on my >5.1-RELEASE system. > > Yep, it's carnival time in Nürnberg, and it's our way to join the festivities ... :-) Didn't want to post that myself as I feared it could be regarded as spam. This offer is valid for all versions of TextMaker: FreeBSD, Linux, Windows, Pocket PCs, and Handheld PCs, but just for one day or 1,111 copies, whatever comes first. Best, Martin Kotulla SoftMaker Software GmbH From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 11 08:10:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 037E116A4CE; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:10:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from digiflux.org (43.Red-80-59-151.pooles.rima-tde.net [80.59.151.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 359ED43FCB; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:10:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Received: from digiflux.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by digiflux.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABG9wmF026175; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:09:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by digiflux.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id hABG9w7Z026174; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:09:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olivas@digiflux.org) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:09:58 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200311111609.hABG9w7Z026174@digiflux.org> X-Authentication-Warning: digiflux.org: www set sender to olivas@digiflux.org using -f To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from 10.0.0.150 (auth. user olivas@localhost) by digiflux.org with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:09:57 +0100 X-IlohaMail-Blah: olivas@localhost X-IlohaMail-Method: mail() [mem] X-IlohaMail-Dummy: moo X-Mailer: IlohaMail/0.7.11 (On: digiflux.org) From: "Stacy Olivas" Bounce-To: "Stacy Olivas" Errors-To: "Stacy Olivas" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cc: warbsd@digiflux.org Subject: WarBSD.com - WarBSD's new site X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:10:10 -0000 FYI. I've moved WarBSD to http://www.warbsd.com. -Stacy From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 11 10:58:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 135C416A4CE for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:58:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from phoenix.gargantuan.com (rrcs-se-24-73-171-238.biz.rr.com [24.73.171.238]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E17FF43FE1 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:58:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michael@gargantuan.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.gargantuan.com [127.0.0.1]) by spamassassin-injector (Postfix) with SMTP id 074CB523 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:58:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by phoenix.gargantuan.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 839D034E; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:58:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:58:02 -0500 From: "Michael W. Oliver" To: advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031111185802.GA97593@gargantuan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Personal-Email: michael@gargantuan.com X-WWW-Site: http://michael.gargantuan.com X-GPG-Public-Key: $X-WWW-Site/gnupg/pubkey.asc X-Home-Phone: +1-863-816-8091 X-Mobile-Phone: +1-863-738-2334 X-Home-Address: 8008 Apache Lane, Lakeland, FL, US 33810-2172 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on phoenix.gargantuan.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-103.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham version=2.60 Subject: bsd.meetup.com participation X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:58:16 -0000 --OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi folks, just wanted to drop this in for those of you who weren't aware of it: http://bsd.meetup.com/ If you are so inclined, please sign up and get BSD Meetup's going in your local area. Thanks for your time! --=20 Mike perl -e 'print unpack("u","88V]N=3D&%C=3D\"!I;F9O(&EN(&AE861E Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA6E16A4CE for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:13:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4077643FEC for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:13:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 313BC3D28; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:13:20 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: "Michael W. Oliver" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:13:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3FB0EE80.20302.58C81C9B@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20031111185802.GA97593@gargantuan.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bsd.meetup.com participation X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:13:22 -0000 On 11 Nov 2003 at 13:58, Michael W. Oliver wrote: > Hi folks, just wanted to drop this in for those of you who weren't aware > of it: > > http://bsd.meetup.com/ > > If you are so inclined, please sign up and get BSD Meetup's going in > your local area. I went there. It seems you cannot set the date/time for a meetup. It is fixed. I also could not find a way to nominate another location. We already have a group that meets in Ottawa and we want to point the time/location to our pub. I don't think that can be done. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 11 13:53:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1850116A4CE for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:53:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04E0143F85 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:53:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:56:32 -0600 Message-ID: <3FB15A5F.7070802@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:53:35 -0600 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030920 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Nov 2003 21:56:33.0109 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB70A050:01C3A89E] Subject: Fw: small opportunity knocks? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:53:47 -0000 I imagine y'all saw this, but maybe it fell through the cracks. Somebody West Coast (maybe from a UG) might have an opportunity here. Not a big one, albeit, but hey ... Don't think it's a troll ... but doesn't know much about 'Nix. I unwrapped the oneliner for ya.... Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. -------- Original Message -------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:18:09 +0000 From: mikebond@comcast.net To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Hello, I work at Las Positas College as a Technical Mentor, in a work-based learning program called LaPTechS. Many of our students have expressed an interest in learning about Linux and Unix. I was wondering if it is possible for a representative from your organization to come speak at a seminar for our students. The students don’t have a working knowledge of Linux or Unix but are very curious to learn. Our seminars are usually an hour long, but you can choose how long you would want to speak. We are mostly interested to know some of the history of Linux and Unix, and also how to install an OS like FreeBSD. Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely, Michael Bond Technical Mentor, LaPTechS Las Positas College 3033 Collier Canyon Rd. Livermore, CA 94551 925.371.3836 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 11 18:05:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90C4116A4CE for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp1.tin.it (vsmtp1.tin.it [212.216.176.221]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 739D843FBD for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:05:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (213.45.252.89) by vsmtp1.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F98F900008FFBB1; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 03:05:21 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c3a8c1$73951350$59fc2dd5@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , References: <3FB15A5F.7070802@daleco.biz> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 03:05:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: small opportunity knocks? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:05:32 -0000 I had come immediately, if I was closer to you, but I'm in Europe. Moreover, you need somebody mostly acquainted with the core of the system, because it is important to know, unix works at his best from the command-line. The most important benefits offered by FreeBSD, compared to Linux, are the historical base of its unix standards and tools, the partitioning system, the filesystem, the ease of kernel compilation, the use of the memory. VITTORI Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > I imagine y'all saw this, but maybe it fell through > the cracks. > > Somebody West Coast (maybe from a UG) might > have an opportunity here. Not a big one, albeit, > but hey ... > > Don't think it's a troll ... but doesn't know much > about 'Nix. I unwrapped the oneliner for ya.... > > Kevin Kinsey > DaleCo, S.P. > > -------- Original Message -------- > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:18:09 +0000 > From: mikebond@comcast.net > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > > > Hello, > > I work at Las Positas College as a Technical Mentor, in a work-based > learning program called LaPTechS. Many of our students have expressed > an interest in learning about Linux and Unix. I was wondering if it is > possible for a representative from your organization to come speak at > a seminar for our students. The students don’t have a working > knowledge > of Linux or Unix but are very curious to learn. Our seminars are > usually an hour long, but you can choose how long you would want to > speak. > We are mostly interested to know some of the history of Linux and > Unix, and also how to install an OS like FreeBSD. > > Thank you for your time and consideration. > > Sincerely, > Michael Bond > Technical Mentor, LaPTechS > Las Positas College > 3033 Collier Canyon Rd. > Livermore, CA 94551 > 925.371.3836 > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 12 19:20:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA6C716A4CE; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp2.tin.it (vsmtp2.tin.it [212.216.176.222]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93DBA43FBD; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:20:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (212.171.174.170) by vsmtp2.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F98F87F009AE01F; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:20:24 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c3a995$1bb25880$aaaeabd4@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: , Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:20:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: a road to nowhere X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:20:38 -0000 I still can't believe what people of GNOME and KDE have done. With GTK 1.x and KDE 2.x there were only some little adjustments missing, to obtain the 'perfect' desktop, compatible with GNUstep's Windowmaker. They have decided to follow an endless way instead. I'm temptated of destroying the whole X system now. The problem with FreeBSD, unlike with Linux, was that Nautilus 1.x didn't work in any way. Before throwing in the towel, I'll downgrade to KDE 2.x, and I'll wait the solution for Nautilus. I thank who will send me a solution to start the Nautilus 1.x, to have at least a decent desktop for a pair of production workstations, dedicated to store music files. I have tried and retried, but the result is always the same: there is no common style under GTK 2.x and KDE 3.x. There is no style matching GNUstep, there aren't customizable windowmanagers any more. The main proposals are based on the Windows shit. VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 12 19:46:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3214016A4CF for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:46:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from web14607.mail.yahoo.com (web14607.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.224.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0E65A43FDF for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:46:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from plageotakes@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031113034649.51844.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.3.217.124] by web14607.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:46:49 PST Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:46:49 -0800 (PST) From: peter lageotakes To: ".VWV." , questions@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <000901c3a995$1bb25880$aaaeabd4@workstation> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: a road to nowhere X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:46:53 -0000 Vittori, Perhaps this link might help. http://www.gnustep.org/resources/sources.html or in /usr/ports/devel/gnustep Hope you find your perfect window manager. Pete --- ".VWV." wrote: > > I still can't believe what people of GNOME and KDE > have done. With GTK 1.x > and KDE 2.x there were only some little adjustments > missing, to obtain the > 'perfect' desktop, compatible with GNUstep's > Windowmaker. They have decided > to follow an endless way instead. I'm temptated of > destroying the whole X > system now. The problem with FreeBSD, unlike with > Linux, was that Nautilus > 1.x didn't work in any way. > Before throwing in the towel, I'll downgrade to KDE > 2.x, and I'll wait the > solution for Nautilus. > > I thank who will send me a solution to start the > Nautilus 1.x, to have at > least a decent desktop for a pair of production > workstations, dedicated to > store music files. > > I have tried and retried, but the result is always > the same: there is no > common style under GTK 2.x and KDE 3.x. > > There is no style matching GNUstep, there aren't > customizable windowmanagers > any more. > > The main proposals are based on the Windows shit. > > VITTORI > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 03:31:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9194E16A4CE for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:31:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net (firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C561A43FAF for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:31:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfmpo.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.219.56] helo=mindspring.com) by firecrest.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AKFgf-0002ja-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:30:58 -0800 Message-ID: <3FB369B4.44C24778@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:23:32 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Langille References: <3FB0EE80.20302.58C81C9B@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a45024e94e06f9d1a13665127611acd74fa2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: "Michael W. Oliver" cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bsd.meetup.com participation X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:31:02 -0000 Dan Langille wrote: > On 11 Nov 2003 at 13:58, Michael W. Oliver wrote: > > > Hi folks, just wanted to drop this in for those of you who weren't aware > > of it: > > > > http://bsd.meetup.com/ > > > > If you are so inclined, please sign up and get BSD Meetup's going in > > your local area. > > I went there. It seems you cannot set the date/time for a meetup. > It is fixed. I also could not find a way to nominate another > location. > > We already have a group that meets in Ottawa and we want to point the > time/location to our pub. I don't think that can be done. I think the point is to get as many FreeBSD people away from their computers at the same time as possible, in order to make it easy to send out worms. 8-) 8-). Seriously, I think it's because the intent is to establish a day a month as a Schelling point around which you can build a community. That said, there are a number of serious problems with the UI. The number one problem is that you can't know until after you've told it your zipcode that there's "not enough people in your area". It does this based on zip code and county, and it seems to expect that no one lives adjacent to a county border, and that all meeting places are in the exact center of the county, and that all states have a county density similar to Montanna, so you'd never, ever want to drive to an adjacent meeting place instead, if yours had "not enough people in your area". A better UI would put the number of people involved in each of the location listings in the nasty JavaScript window, at least in a set of parenthesis. Another UI issues is that you can't get a sorted of only the ones that are populated meetup places (to pick one you know is going to take place). Similarly, since such a list doesn't exist, there's no way that you can get a version of it that's sorted by number of attendees (the time I'm willing to spend driving is proportional to the number of people I know will be attending). The explicit registration is a little annoying, as well; personally, I think the eInvite web sites handle this type of thing a lot better, even though, admittedly, they aren't trying to federate the people like the meetup.com people are trying. Even so, it doesn't seem to me that it would be that computationally intensive to deal with it by email address alone. I'm not really asking for proximity mapping, or "my zip code is XXX, show me all instances within 50 miles of this zip code", or "plot on a map the density vs. location using standard "more dots per attendee" type graphical notation", or "plot on a map in my state or in my general area and surrounding counties the density vs. location", or anything... though those would make the thing a lot more useful, too. All in all, I'm very unlikely to sign up for this thing without some preindication that (a) I won't be allowed to play if I don't, and (b) that doing so will get me into a location in what I consider to be "my area"/"a reasonable distance". So, at least IMO, the implementation is really, really lacking. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 07:14:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 890F716A4CF for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:14:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu (1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu [128.147.18.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E3E943FCB for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:14:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from personrp@ccbh.com) Received: by 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:13:59 -0500 Message-ID: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B41E842@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> From: "Person, Roderick" To: "'.VWV.'" , advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:13:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: RE: a road to nowhere X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:14:14 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: .VWV. [mailto:victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it] > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 10:21 PM > To: questions@freebsd.org; advocacy@freebsd.org > Subject: a road to nowhere > > > I still can't believe what people of GNOME and KDE have done. I keep reading how you dislike KDE 3.x, but one thing I missed was what you really don't like about it. It seems you just don't like the look. Is that all? Before KDE 3.x, I used only Windowmaker because KDE 2 was so slow and choppy on my machine, Now I have to admit I went from a PII 450 to a PIV 1.8GHz during the time. But otherwise KDE seems to be just fine. > I have tried and retried, but the result is always the same: > there is no > common style under GTK 2.x and KDE 3.x. This is what I'm not understanding, you complain that to differe toolkits aren't the same? You also mentioned GNUstep which is uses another toolkit, if I'm not mistaken. Just Curious Rod... From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 07:28:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9741B16A4CE for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep13-int.chello.nl (amsfep13-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.24]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01EE843FE3 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:28:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.142.207]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with ESMTP id <20031113152819.GZBV1451.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:28:19 +0100 Message-ID: <3FB3A2F6.5040504@sitetronics.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:27:50 +0100 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030820 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Person, Roderick" References: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B41E842@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> In-Reply-To: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B41E842@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a road to nowhere X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:28:22 -0000 How about we keep the content of this list FreeBSD-advocacy related until there's a wm-pissing-and-moaning-contest@freebsd.org list. Thanks, Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 10:58:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88EB116A4CE for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:58:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F1343F93 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:58:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:3167 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AKMfD-00054c-5k; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:57:55 -0800 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:53:25 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-145.acuson.com ([157.226.46.145]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id VDNNC047; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:52:30 -0800 From: Johnson David To: ".VWV." , advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:56:11 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <000901c3a995$1bb25880$aaaeabd4@workstation> In-Reply-To: <000901c3a995$1bb25880$aaaeabd4@workstation> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311131056.12296.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1AKMfD-00054c-5k*THO5BOiV0NU* Subject: Re: a road to nowhere X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:58:10 -0000 On Wednesday 12 November 2003 07:20 pm, .VWV. wrote: > I have tried and retried, but the result is always the same: there is > no common style under GTK 2.x and KDE 3.x. > > There is no style matching GNUstep, there aren't customizable > windowmanagers any more. GTK+, Qt, and GNUstep are made by different projects. Their themes are also made by separate projects. Most of the developers (and all of the theme writers) are unpaid volunteers. If you want some unified themes, you choices are to politely encourage and convince someone to do it for you, or to do it yourself. That's the way Open Source has always worked. I am the author of the Qt-2.x Stepstyle theme, which was as near of a clone of NeXT as I could get. I did not port it to qt3 for three reasons. First, there was little interest in it. Although it was popular as a "howto" to write other themes, the NeXT look itself is rather plain and unexciting. Second, porting to qt3 would mean a total rewrite, since the API has been completely changed. Third, there were strong rumours that Mosfet would be updating his KStep theme. The latter didn't happen, and with his current disappearance from the scene, might never happen. I could update my Stepstyle theme. But doing so would put other projects of mine on hold. So before I would do it, I would need to know that there is interest in it. Doing all of this work for just one person isn't worth it to me (although renumeration of some kind would help). On to other notes. There ARE unified themes for GTK+ and Qt/KDE. The best are the GTK+ default with Qt Motif Plus. Also available are Redmond/Windows, Keramik/Geramik, qnx/Qinx, Bluecurve (Redhat) and Galaxy (Mandrake). You may want to look at one of these pairs. Of course, these pairs are not perfect. Nothing will ever be, since they are separate widget toolkits using distinct widget paradigms and policies. But they're very close. Also, Windowmaker is not a GNUstep application, so I don't know what the hullaballoo is all about. Although Windowmaker is the "official" window manager for GNUstep, it itself does not use any of the GNUstep libraries, and isn't even written in Objective C. Cheers, David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 14:40:22 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2892B16A4D0 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:40:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl (pr93.lublin.sdi.tpnet.pl [217.97.36.93]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BFF8C43F85 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:40:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michal@pasternak.w.lub.pl) Received: (qmail 17489 invoked by uid 1000); 13 Nov 2003 22:38:05 -0000 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:38:05 +0100 From: Michal Pasternak To: "Person, Roderick" Message-ID: <20031113223805.GE16971@pasternak.w.lub.pl> References: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B41E842@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B41E842@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a road to nowhere X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Michal Pasternak List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:40:22 -0000 Person, Roderick [Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 10:13:36AM -0500]: > I keep reading how you dislike KDE 3.x, but one thing I missed was what you > really don't like about it. > It seems you just don't like the look. Is that all? Neither the look of KDE, nor the look of GNOME make them "Desktop Environments". What really makes a "Desktop Environment" is it's infrastructure. MS Windows - the most widely used desktop OS, no matter if you like it or not - supports many different mechanisms, which allow applications talk to each other and exchange data. ActiveX, COM+, DAO. Just to name a few. KDE, Mozilla and Star/OpenOffice are so big packages just because they try to patch the things, that have always been a problem on Unix systems. X11 has GUI toolkits, X11 has window managers. The problem becomes visible when you've written a spreadsheet, your friend did a vector drawing program, and someone else did a simple utility, that displays thumbnails of the files on the desktop. How can you share your data formats between applications? Well, someone might say, that with enough work it will be possible. In this case, please multiply the numbers by 5 or 10. Does it still looks easy? Okay, let's say the spreadsheet uses CSV and the vector program uses SVG - nice, readable formats - so... how do I embed a HTML displaying widget in both of them? Doesn't matter, what for - I just want to do that. How? The power of KDE doesn't lie in it's ability to change the look of the desktop. The power of KDE is KParts - a framework for sharing application components. Yes, that's the part of KDE, that allows you to have different menu in Konqueror when you're viewing PDF file; that's also the thing, that makes embedding of KSpread spreadsheets in KWord possible. What about GNOME, you might ask. Well, GNOME also has similar mechanisms. So, why do I say "go for KDE" ? KDE has already released many great applications. Not to mention the WWW browser (which, in turn, was adopted by Apple - and Apple knows, what's good, they already based Darwin/MacOS X on the best OS available), they have their printing system, networking utilities and a quite nice office package (which, as I belive, could grow to a really big and advanced suite, it only needs work - but well, the basics are _already_ done). Hey, you might say, GNOME has Galeon and Ximian.com do bundle OpenOffice with it! Okay. Galeon is based on Mozilla. This means: memory footprint == GNOME libraries + Mozilla libraries. OpenOffice? That's a whole different framework. Running OpenOffice on GNOME means loading 2 different toolkits (and I suppose, that noone can admin OO.org is small). KDE _is_ single. You might say it's libraries are bloat and it takes way too much to start-up. Well, that's the price you pay for patching the desktop-software-interoperability-hole, that existed in Unix for a long, long time (please note the word "desktop" at the beginning). So, I'd rather see already written software - which has proven it is well written - extended ad infinitum - (eg. KOffice patched in such manner it will become better than OpenOffice.org) - than create something worse or something incomplete. I don't want to hold many different toolkits on my hard drive, I don't want to wait each time I load an application using different set of libraries. Sorry, GNOME fans - I'm not saying, that GNOME is worse or better, than KDE - I'm just saying, that KDE has a bundled WWW browser and a basic office suite. Those components are very important in each everyday's desktop. That's why I think, that KDE just seems to be good point to start creating a production-quality desktop. It's easier to extend some already written applications, not to mention they're good, because they work. Anyway, as someone said: "GNOME developers focus on creating something perfect, while KDE developers focus on creating something, that just works" :) Another strange thing I've noticed: some people are trying to compare WindowMaker or any other window manager to desktop environments. That's a no-go, gentlemen. Window manager is _only_ a window manager. It doesn't make a real desktop environment, it only looks this way. Regards, -- Michal Pasternak :: http://pasternak.w.lub.pl From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 15:55:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A65016A4CE for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp12.tin.it (vsmtp12.tin.it [212.216.176.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4701C43FA3 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:55:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (213.45.252.42) by vsmtp12.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F8C849200CBB42D for advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 00:55:44 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c3aa41$ae8c43d0$2afc2dd5@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: References: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B41E842@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> <3FB3A2F6.5040504@sitetronics.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 00:55:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: Re: a road to nowhere X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:55:51 -0000 I had sincerely moved there, if it was existing, it is seriously a correct idea. I have tried to move to 'chat', but it seems it isn't popular. Thanks, VITTORI Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > How about we keep the content of this list FreeBSD-advocacy related > until there's a wm-pissing-and-moaning-contest@freebsd.org list. > > Thanks, > > Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 17:08:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A57016A4CE for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:08:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp12.tin.it (vsmtp12.tin.it [212.216.176.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C0B543FEA for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:08:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (213.45.252.181) by vsmtp12.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F8C849200CBF98C for advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:08:26 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c3aa4b$d649b650$b5fc2dd5@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: References: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B41E842@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> <20031113223805.GE16971@pasternak.w.lub.pl> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:08:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: Re: a road to nowhere X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:08:29 -0000 Michal Pasternak wrote: > Another strange thing I've noticed: some people are trying to compare > WindowMaker or any other window manager to desktop environments. > That's a no-go, gentlemen. Window manager is _only_ a window manager. > It doesn't make a real desktop environment, it only looks this way. Your entire article is very important to understand the basics of the graphical frontends. I don't know about KDE developers, it seems you are one important of them. I know very well Windowmaker is only a window manager, I start from it simply to have the choice of launching anything else with any kind of tie. Thank you for your participation. VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 13 17:14:48 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3193216A4CE for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from vsmtp12.tin.it (vsmtp12.tin.it [212.216.176.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5095243FFD for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:14:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from victorvittorivonwiktow@interfree.it) Received: from workstation (213.45.252.183) by vsmtp12.tin.it (7.0.019) id 3F8C849200CC0078 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:14:46 +0100 Message-ID: <003601c3aa4c$b8fb28d0$b5fc2dd5@workstation> From: ".VWV." To: Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:14:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Fw: Re: a road to nowhere X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:14:48 -0000 >> GTK+, Qt, and GNUstep are made by different projects. Their themes >> are also made by separate projects. Most of the developers (and all >> of the theme writers) are unpaid volunteers. If you want some >> unified themes, you choices are to politely encourage and convince >> someone to do it >> for you, or to do it yourself. That's the way Open Source has always >> worked. > > I have written here for the reason above, I only trust in the FreeBSD > community. > >> I am the author of the Qt-2.x Stepstyle theme, which was as near of a >> clone of NeXT as I could get. I did not port it to qt3 for three >> reasons. First, there was little interest in it. Although it was >> popular as a "howto" to write other themes, the NeXT look itself is >> rather plain and unexciting. Second, porting to qt3 would mean a >> total rewrite, since the API has been completely changed. Third, >> there were strong rumours that Mosfet would be updating his KStep >> theme. The >> latter didn't happen, and with his current disappearance from the >> scene, might never happen. > > I have touched the porting problem, reading the sources. I had never > thought, it's you having built such a masterpiece, even if somebody > consider it 'unexciting'. I have read only of Mosfet. > >> I could update my Stepstyle theme. But doing so would put other >> projects of mine on hold. So before I would do it, I would need to >> know that there is interest in it. Doing all of this work for just >> one person isn't worth it to me (although renumeration of some kind >> would help). > > I have still downloaded all of the KDE 2.2.2 stuff. If it won't > correctly work on this system, I would be glad of paying for the > Stepstyle update. I'm a visual, therefore instead of running ungly > frontends, I still prefer the command-line. I have also modified the > look of this Windows bastard, to make it look more 'Nextish'... I > haven't the time to learn how to modify C sources, even if I would > like it, because I have a lot of capabilities to grow up, like metal > working, acting, electronic music. I still don't know what will be my > job. I'm a high-level authistic. > >> Also, Windowmaker is not a GNUstep application, so I don't know what >> the hullaballoo is all about. Although Windowmaker is the "official" >> window manager for GNUstep, it itself does not use any of the GNUstep >> libraries, and isn't even written in Objective C. > > I have learnt it from you now. It's really incredible. > > I was using a customized Afterstep, before a catastrophic crash of a > Linux filesystem. It was good looking with all of the Motif-like > frontends, I had also repainted the buttons, but it has all been lost. > > Now I'm running a self-built four disk system for safety, the next > one is a mix of ATA-UDMA and SCSI-ULTRA. > > Cheers > > VITTORI From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 14 05:00:57 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2FC016A4CE for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:00:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail08b.verio.de (mail08b.verio.de [213.198.55.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3DC0B43FE3 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:00:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from martin-k@softmaker.de) Received: from www.softmaker.de (213.198.12.36) by mail08b.verio.de (RS ver 1.0.88vs) with SMTP id 0-0709514840 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:00:42 +0100 (CET) Received: from softmaker.de [192.168.168.42] by softmaker.de (FTGate 2, 2, 4, 1); Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:07:35 +0100 Message-ID: <3FB4D23C.8060807@softmaker.de> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:01:48 +0100 From: Martin Kotulla User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop-Detect: 1 Subject: Trying to contact Kevin Kinsey... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:00:57 -0000 Sorry to pester the list... Any mail I am sending to Kevin Kinsey bounces with the following error message. Can someone please forward this info to Kevin; I have his TextMaker registration waiting and a couple of other mail messages bounced as well. Senders were martin-@softmaker.de, mk999@gmx.de, and info@softmaker.de Best, -mk <<< Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mail08b.verio.de. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. : Connected to 66.76.92.18 but sender was rejected. Remote host said: 550 5.0.0 Access denied >>>