From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 24 10:52:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732B716A4C0 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kirk.giovannelli.it (kirk.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF88C43F3F for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:52:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from ppp-15-54.27-151.libero.it (ppp-15-54.27-151.libero.it [151.27.54.15]) by kirk.giovannelli.it (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7OHqvnS072457 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2003 19:52:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) From: Gianmarco To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 19:48:55 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200308241948.55084.gmarco@giovannelli.it> X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.3.1(snapshot 20020109) (kirk.giovannelli.it) Subject: Some papers about benchmarks X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 17:52:49 -0000 Hi all. I have to prepare a little talk/presentation about the possibility of using FreeBSD in a productive enviroment instead of proprietary OS (windows :-). I was looking on web to find some info/material/benchmarks about performances of FreeBSD/Linux/WinNt under the common server tasks (web, email, ftp and so on ...) . I have found a lot of things but not so much recent and mostly about Linux not FreeBSD. If someone can point out to some references or new benchmarks about our OS I'll be very happy. If there is nothing about FreeBSD also Linux/Unix material is happily accepted ... Thanks ... P.s. Once I read in this area a link about a file which summarize the main differences about FreeBSD, Linux and Windog with little smiles. I got the file too, but I have not with me now. Will someone so kind to repost the link please. I tried also on the search page of FreeBSD but it seems out of work. Thanks again.... From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 25 11:28:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B095516A4BF for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:28:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seattlefenix.net (seattlefenix.net [216.231.34.252]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F63543FF5 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:28:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roo@seattlefenix.net) Received: by seattlefenix.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0F7E1B202; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:20:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:20:49 -0700 From: Benjamin Krueger To: Gianmarco Message-ID: <20030825182049.GQ232@surreal.seattlefenix.net> References: <200308241948.55084.gmarco@giovannelli.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200308241948.55084.gmarco@giovannelli.it> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some papers about benchmarks X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Benjamin Krueger List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:28:38 -0000 * Gianmarco (gmarco@giovannelli.it) [030824 10:45]: > Hi all. I have to prepare a little talk/presentation about the possibility of > using FreeBSD in a productive enviroment instead of proprietary OS (windows > :-). > > I was looking on web to find some info/material/benchmarks about performances > of FreeBSD/Linux/WinNt under the common server tasks (web, email, ftp and so > on ...) . I have found a lot of things but not so much recent and mostly > about Linux not FreeBSD. > > If someone can point out to some references or new benchmarks about our OS > I'll be very happy. If there is nothing about FreeBSD also Linux/Unix > material is happily accepted ... > > Thanks ... > > P.s. > Once I read in this area a link about a file which summarize the main > differences about FreeBSD, Linux and Windog with little smiles. I got the > file too, but I have not with me now. Will someone so kind to repost the link > please. I tried also on the search page of FreeBSD but it seems out of work. > Thanks again.... There's some MTA benchmarking. http://www-dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de/~ma/postfix/bench2.html -- Benjamin Krueger From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 25 15:56:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C6216A4BF for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:56:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66AC443FE9 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:56:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p2/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h7PMuJVR031727; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:56:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030825182049.GQ232@surreal.seattlefenix.net> References: <200308241948.55084.gmarco@giovannelli.it> <20030825182049.GQ232@surreal.seattlefenix.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 00:52:26 +0200 To: Benjamin Krueger From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: Gianmarco cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some papers about benchmarks X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 22:56:28 -0000 At 11:20 AM -0700 2003/08/25, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > There's some MTA benchmarking. > > http://www-dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de/~ma/postfix/bench2.html See also . -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 27 10:34:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC0816A4BF for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1942F43FAF for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:34:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@iconoplex.co.uk) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk ([195.188.15.48] helo=iconoplex.co.uk) by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 19s4EZ-000CRP-EX; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:37:27 +0100 Message-ID: <3F26A888.4040405@iconoplex.co.uk> From: Paul Robinson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mooneer Salem References: <000a01c352e8$8d152790$1300a8c0@D6T8V231> In-Reply-To: <000a01c352e8$8d152790$1300a8c0@D6T8V231> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD certification. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:34:08 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:02:00 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:34:08 -0000 Mooneer Salem wrote: >I meant to reply to this message, but I haven't had the time until now. >:) Anyways, while reviewing for the LPI certification exams (there's a >lot of obscure stuff that isn't used often in server administration, it >seems) I thought of "the ultimate (insert OS here)" certification exam. > Wow. Haven't seen this thread for a while. It kind of died out as I got busy with stuff at work-work, but I do have some notes I'm collating. It's turning into a monster of a project here, but I'm having to step back a little here because I want to talk to some people who know about accreditation professionally. I work at a University in a project that is involved with defining new CPD and accreditation mechanisms, so I want to bring in some of that experience. >After taking the multiple choice section of the exam, the test takers >would go to another room with rows of computers on the desks. Before the >actual exam takes place, the exam creators would take a hard drive, >install FreeBSD on it, and then basically manufacture a problem that >would require a sysadmin to fix it (such as a trashed boot sector or >Apache). Preferably the problem would normally take about an hour to two >hours to solve. Each test taker would have access to a FreeBSD CD and >the Internet (for Google). Network and routing information would be >provided on a whiteboard in the front of the room in case the computers >are not set up properly for networking. > OK, this is problematic. It causes problems because what you're proposing has implications: 1. Cost. What you're suggesting is expensive to setup, co-ordinate and run. I'm fed up of hearing about people not wanting to do CPD because it's a "waste of money". We can address that by increasing quality within our own domain, AND reducing cost as much as possible. 2. Consistency. How do we check the guys in CA are getting tests as hard as the guys in Afghanistan? Employ an army of people who can check the quality and standards of the testing centres? 3. Complexity. Is the ability to walk into a room and fix a trashed boot sector useful for somebody who is going to running an ISP operation where a trashed machine just gets re-installed? How do we manage CPD goals, skills, etc. into a framework that is useful yet adaptable. Your thoughts are good and I know at least one person who has spoken to me off-list would like to get something like that together - maybe you should get in touch with each other - but this doesn't feel like it's going in the same direction as I am. I promise, I am working on this despite my quietness over the last month, and when the docs are ready for public consumption, I'll post the URL up here. I'm really keen to get some feedback. Currently, the key salient points are: - All testing done on-line as multiple choice. Sure, the guy can IRC to a guy who has done it, but his 100 questions will be picked randomly out of more than 2,000, and he only has an hour to complete it. You either know it, or you're going to cut and paste - the latter will take too long, and we'll take points off you for not finishing. That means costs are reduced (no testinf centre required), and we can maintain quality whilst retaining a sense of security. - Tests produce points that build into larger groupings that produce qualifications. This is hard to explain, but the tests you do to get a qualification won't be the ones the guy next to you does. It means if you're into mail and dial-up, and the guy next to you is into web and dns, you can both get CPD qualifications, but you don't both have to know each others stuff. This gets mad - I know exactly how to do this, but space prevents me explaining here. - This is not about FreeBSD. Sure, there'll be FreeBSD tests, but I want to produce something wider ranging that shows you have skills that employers, peers, whoever, will respect you for. FreeBSD will be in the first set of tests we produce, but I'm not going to ignore Open/Net/DragonFly/Darwin/Linux/QNX/whatever - These tests are going to be hard. REALLY hard. You're going to have to study no matter how long you've been a Unix wizard. Sure, Greg Lehey might get the FreeBSD kernel-hacking tests down on the first try, but he might be the only one who does. The point is, people should respect this stuff. I don't want to work on a Unix equivalent to the MCSE qualifications. My spare time is too valuable. I'm sure your training budget is too. - Lastly, if you do a test on FreeBSD, it won't cost you much, but a percentage of that fee goes to FreeBSD. We might spot areas of docs that need filling in so will throw money at the docs project specifically (we want all study material to be freely available), but in general, if you pay for a set of tests on the BSDs, the BSDs will get money. We obviously need to take out an operational cost but I'll keep that as low as I can for now. This is something I haven't even started to talk to people about, but it makes sense. How many other ways can you think of convincing your employers to donate cash to FreeBSD? :-) >BTW: Paul, maybe we can chat via private email more about your ideas for >certification, if you'd like. :) > There will be a mailing list setup for this in the next couple of weeks, because lots of people want to get stuck in. If I drive this (I will, even if nobody else wants to get involved and even if nobody looks like they would sign up :-) ), it'll be run as a limited company in the UK, but I want as many people as possible (wellm, as many as is reasonable) to get involved in at least the planning and design, if not the implementation. Let me get back to you all in a couple of weeks, and in the meantime, nohup & it to the back of my brain and let that work on it. -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 27 17:58:49 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB82816A4BF for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta5.adelphia.net (mta5.adelphia.net [68.168.78.187]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB2643FB1 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:58:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta5.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030828005847.QMLR7719.mta5.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com> for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:58:47 -0400 Message-ID: <3F4D53C6.5080608@potentialtech.com> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:58:46 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Hoping to organize some get togethers for BSD geeks X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:58:50 -0000 Hey, I've been trying for a while to get organized to get together with fellow freenix geeks in the Pittsburgh, area. I tried hooking up with a local LUG, but that didn't go so well. Recently I tripped across this meetup.com site. It doesn't seem like anything shady or anything (although I'm not sure how they're making money off it) So, basically, I'm asking anyone in the Pittsburgh area interested in getting together to talk tech to sign up. Let's see if this meetup.com thing can organize meetings like it says it can. (Hell, if you're not from Pittsburgh, I guess it's OK to sign up for your city as well) No, I don't work for meetup. No, I don't get kickbacks or anything for signing anyone up. No, this isn't a pyramid scheme (at least, not as far as I can tell) I just got bummed last month when not enough people signed up to make a meeting worthwhile and thought I'd see if I could drum up some interest. http://bsd.meetup.com -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 00:34:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E8E416A4C3; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15C6943F93; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:34:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id F2B1153157; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:04:35 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:04:35 +0930 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: chat@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20030828073435.GE39024@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rz/qo3iW6Lu5yGf1" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Subject: Anybody from Texas going to the BSDCon? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:34:39 -0000 --rz/qo3iW6Lu5yGf1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline I'll be at the BSDCon the week after next, and Mark Linimon, who lives in Austin TX, is trying to get a disk to me. Is there anybody who would be prepared to bring it for me? He'll be in Dallas next week, and he could hand it over in Dallas if that makes things easier. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers --rz/qo3iW6Lu5yGf1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/TbCLIubykFB6QiMRAogGAJoDte+BlnU6OefexJQzDOqmgWVbngCgmSeb dG4XYQOm8KuUS/ZVEudaGiY= =1qVo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rz/qo3iW6Lu5yGf1-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 07:56:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457BE16A4BF for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from barrierb241.nike.com (barrier.nike.com [146.197.27.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3965843FBD for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:56:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rick.Hamell@nike.com) Received: from barrierb241.nike.com (root@localhost) by barrierb241.nike.com with ESMTP id h7SEu4C11254; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:56:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beavertn-svr-r9 (beavertn-svr-r9.nike.com [146.197.20.109]) by barrierb241.nike.com with ESMTP id h7SEu2o11171; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 146.197.1.183 by beavertn-svr-n9 with SMTP (Tumbleweed MMS SMTP Relay (MMS v5.0)); Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:55:57 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: F122D6CD-24F0-4253-8986-549FB7942DF9 Received: from beavertn-svr-a0.nike.com (exchange.nike.com [146.197.251.36]) by cammail1.nike.com (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7SEtvP25130; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by exchange.nike.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:55:57 -0700 Message-ID: <40A58436474AC645BEB609B65CB07CD705F400@beavertn-svr-22.nike.com> From: "Hamell, Rick (LMCO)" To: chat@freebsd.org, "'Bill Moran'" Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:55:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-WSS-ID: 1350C877658889-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: RE: Hoping to organize some get togethers for BSD geeks X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:56:33 -0000 I'm on the Ultima Meetup and Ufie Meetup for Portland. It's ok, but the way it makes money is via restraunts/pubs/coffee places putting their locations in for a small fee. They also get a certain number of votes weighed in so that they're guarunteed at least one meetup. So you end up getting a lot of crappy choices sometimes. You can suggest other places, but you have to be a paid member also. So it's a good concept, they just need to make money off of it and that makes for some problems. Rick > ---------- > From: Bill Moran > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 5:58 PM > To: chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Hoping to organize some get togethers for BSD geeks > > Hey, > > I've been trying for a while to get organized to get together with > fellow freenix geeks in the Pittsburgh, area. I tried hooking up > with a local LUG, but that didn't go so well. > > Recently I tripped across this meetup.com site. It doesn't seem > like anything shady or anything (although I'm not sure how they're > making money off it) > > So, basically, I'm asking anyone in the Pittsburgh area interested > in getting together to talk tech to sign up. Let's see if this > meetup.com thing can organize meetings like it says it can. > > (Hell, if you're not from Pittsburgh, I guess it's OK to sign up for > your city as well) > > No, I don't work for meetup. No, I don't get kickbacks or anything > for signing anyone up. No, this isn't a pyramid scheme (at least, > not as far as I can tell) I just got bummed last month when not > enough people signed up to make a meeting worthwhile and thought I'd > see if I could drum up some interest. > > http://bsd.meetup.com > > -- > Bill Moran > Potential Technologies > http://www.potentialtech.com > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 08:15:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C9D16A4BF for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta8.adelphia.net (mta8.adelphia.net [68.168.78.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7AA043FF7 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:15:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta8.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030828151550.VYHG18971.mta8.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:15:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3F4E1CA4.3030506@potentialtech.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:15:48 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hamell, Rick (LMCO)" References: <40A58436474AC645BEB609B65CB07CD705F400@beavertn-svr-22.nike.com> In-Reply-To: <40A58436474AC645BEB609B65CB07CD705F400@beavertn-svr-22.nike.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hoping to organize some get togethers for BSD geeks X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:15:53 -0000 Hamell, Rick (LMCO) wrote: > I'm on the Ultima Meetup and Ufie Meetup for Portland. It's ok, but the way > it makes money is via restraunts/pubs/coffee places putting their locations > in for a small fee. They also get a certain number of votes weighed in so > that they're guarunteed at least one meetup. So you end up getting a lot of > crappy choices sometimes. You can suggest other places, but you have to be a > paid member also. So it's a good concept, they just need to make money off > of it and that makes for some problems. That doesn't sound too unfair. I mean, the venues get extra business from the deal, sounds fair that they should foot the bill. I just can't believe how difficult it is to get people together. It appears as though this posting to chat@ resulted in 1 person signing up for the BSD meetups. *sigh* ... oh well, I guest it's back to wandering into bars and listening to people tell me how wonderful their Windows DVD burner is when it doesn't crash. >>---------- >>From: Bill Moran >>Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 5:58 PM >>To: chat@freebsd.org >>Subject: Hoping to organize some get togethers for BSD geeks >> >>Hey, >> >>I've been trying for a while to get organized to get together with >>fellow freenix geeks in the Pittsburgh, area. I tried hooking up >>with a local LUG, but that didn't go so well. >> >>Recently I tripped across this meetup.com site. It doesn't seem >>like anything shady or anything (although I'm not sure how they're >>making money off it) >> >>So, basically, I'm asking anyone in the Pittsburgh area interested >>in getting together to talk tech to sign up. Let's see if this >>meetup.com thing can organize meetings like it says it can. >> >>(Hell, if you're not from Pittsburgh, I guess it's OK to sign up for >>your city as well) >> >>No, I don't work for meetup. No, I don't get kickbacks or anything >>for signing anyone up. No, this isn't a pyramid scheme (at least, >>not as far as I can tell) I just got bummed last month when not >>enough people signed up to make a meeting worthwhile and thought I'd >>see if I could drum up some interest. >> >>http://bsd.meetup.com -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 08:22:37 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C3916A4BF for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from barrierb241.nike.com (barrierb241.nike.com [146.197.27.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F17E44003 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rick.Hamell@nike.com) Received: from barrierb241.nike.com (root@localhost) by barrierb241.nike.com with ESMTP id h7SFM6U07586; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beavertn-svr-r9 (beavertn-svr-r9.nike.com [146.197.20.109]) by barrierb241.nike.com with ESMTP id h7SFM6o07564; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 146.197.1.183 by beavertn-svr-n9 with SMTP (Tumbleweed MMS SMTP Relay (MMS v5.0)); Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:22:03 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: F122D6CD-24F0-4253-8986-549FB7942DF9 Received: from beavertn-svr-a0.nike.com (exchange.nike.com [146.197.251.36]) by cammail1.nike.com (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7SFM3P17497; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by exchange.nike.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:22:02 -0700 Message-ID: <40A58436474AC645BEB609B65CB07CD705F402@beavertn-svr-22.nike.com> From: "Hamell, Rick (LMCO)" To: "'Bill Moran'" Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:21:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-WSS-ID: 1350C191669895-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Hoping to organize some get togethers for BSD geeks X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:22:37 -0000 >That doesn't sound too unfair. I mean, the venues get extra business >from the deal, sounds fair that they should foot the bill. That they do. Unluckily, of the two places locally that have done that, one is WAY over priced and gets ticked off when we're there past 9pm. And the other one will gladly stay open but only serves coffe and a few premade sandwichs. So in normal situations I'd vote with my money and go somewhere else. But we're stuck going to one or the other of these places because they're paying and they continually come up on the voting list, plus the votes get weighed in their favor. One of things we've started doing is voting ahead of time for better places, but still using the meetup to get new memebers. Rick From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 08:32:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E31B816A4BF for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta6.adelphia.net (mta6.adelphia.net [68.168.78.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC45043FDF for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:32:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wmoran@potentialtech.com) Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta6.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP id <20030828153223.QYW18217.mta6.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:32:23 -0400 Message-ID: <3F4E2085.2020400@potentialtech.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:32:21 -0400 From: Bill Moran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hamell, Rick (LMCO)" References: <40A58436474AC645BEB609B65CB07CD705F402@beavertn-svr-22.nike.com> In-Reply-To: <40A58436474AC645BEB609B65CB07CD705F402@beavertn-svr-22.nike.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hoping to organize some get togethers for BSD geeks X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:32:24 -0000 Hamell, Rick (LMCO) wrote: > >That doesn't sound too unfair. I mean, the venues get extra > business >from the deal, sounds fair that they should foot the bill. > > That they do. Unluckily, of the two places locally that have done > that, one is WAY over priced and gets ticked off when we're there past 9pm. > > And the other one will gladly stay open but only serves coffe and a > few premade sandwichs. > > So in normal situations I'd vote with my money and go somewhere > else. But we're stuck going to one or the other of these places because > they're paying and they continually come up on the voting list, plus the > votes get weighed in their favor. One of things we've started doing is > voting ahead of time for better places, but still using the meetup to get > new memebers. Have you tried talking to the owner/manager of some places that you would like to go to try to convince them to joing the meetup service? Just a thought, it's what I would do if I were in your sit. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 12:08:28 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F9B16A4BF for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk (hannibal.servitor.co.uk [195.188.15.48]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D7143FAF for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:08:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@iconoplex.co.uk) Received: from hannibal.servitor.co.uk ([195.188.15.48] helo=iconoplex.co.uk) by hannibal.servitor.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 19sSBQ-000EtK-SO; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:11:49 +0100 Message-ID: <3F4E5322.3040005@iconoplex.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:08:18 +0100 From: Paul Robinson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Robinson References: <000a01c352e8$8d152790$1300a8c0@D6T8V231> <3F26A888.4040405@iconoplex.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3F26A888.4040405@iconoplex.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD certification. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:08:28 -0000 Paul Robinson wrote: > Wow. Haven't seen this thread for a while. It kind of died out as I > got busy with Ummm... yeah. Where the HELL did that come from? I wrote that a long time back. I'll go and see what Mozilla is doing. Anyway, parts of it were accurate. Others weren't. Anybody interested, let me know. -- Paul Robinson From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 12:29:29 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBFA516A4BF for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F0E143FBF for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:29:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25629; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:29:06 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20030828132751.0313d460@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:28:54 -0600 To: "Hamell, Rick (LMCO)" , "'Bill Moran'" From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <40A58436474AC645BEB609B65CB07CD705F402@beavertn-svr-22.nik e.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Hoping to organize some get togethers for BSD geeks X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:29:30 -0000 Ask members of your local chapter of Toastmasters where they meet. Some restaurants cater to groups like this, giving them perks like the use of private dining rooms. --Brett Glass At 09:21 AM 8/28/2003, Hamell, Rick (LMCO) wrote: > >That doesn't sound too unfair. I mean, the venues get extra >business >from the deal, sounds fair that they should foot the bill. > > That they do. Unluckily, of the two places locally that have done >that, one is WAY over priced and gets ticked off when we're there past 9pm. > > And the other one will gladly stay open but only serves coffe and a >few premade sandwichs. > > So in normal situations I'd vote with my money and go somewhere >else. But we're stuck going to one or the other of these places because >they're paying and they continually come up on the voting list, plus the >votes get weighed in their favor. One of things we've started doing is >voting ahead of time for better places, but still using the meetup to get >new memebers. > > Rick > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 28 14:32:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059E116A4BF for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paladin.fortunaty.net (fortunaty.net [217.160.129.175]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7182B43FD7 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:32:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ah@paladin.fortunaty.net) Received: (qmail 26015 invoked by uid 501); 28 Aug 2003 21:32:09 -0000 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:32:09 +0200 From: Andy Hauser To: chat@freeBSD.org Message-ID: <20030828213209.GO6306@splashground.de> Mail-Followup-To: chat@freeBSD.org References: <20030818032140.GA69851@rot13.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030818032140.GA69851@rot13.obsecurity.org> X-Addicted: yeah X-License: BSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Re: Seen on IRC... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:32:14 -0000 On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 08:21:40PM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > http://www.topfx.com/cgi-bin/mixmaster.cgi?layouturl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freebsd.org&contenturl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.microsoft.com It actually was a fair deal: http://www.topfx.com/cgi-bin/mixmaster.cgi?layouturl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.microsoft.com/&contenturl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freebsd.org Andy From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 29 14:58:07 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCDE416A4BF for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carver.gumbysoft.com (carver.gumbysoft.com [66.220.23.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 570DF43FE0 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:58:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gumbysoft.com) Received: by carver.gumbysoft.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 82E4572DA2; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carver.gumbysoft.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D41672DA0; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:58:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: Paul Robinson In-Reply-To: <3F4E5322.3040005@iconoplex.co.uk> Message-ID: <20030829145758.Q28819@carver.gumbysoft.com> References: <000a01c352e8$8d152790$1300a8c0@D6T8V231> <3F26A888.4040405@iconoplex.co.uk> <3F4E5322.3040005@iconoplex.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD certification. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:58:08 -0000 On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Paul Robinson wrote: > Paul Robinson wrote: > > > Wow. Haven't seen this thread for a while. It kind of died out as I > > got busy with > > > > Ummm... yeah. Where the HELL did that come from? I wrote that a long > time back. I'll go and see what Mozilla is doing. Viruses are cool. -- Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve dwhite@gumbysoft.com | www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 30 08:57:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C075716A4BF for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 08:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail46.fg.online.no (mail46-s.fg.online.no [148.122.161.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 593F743F85 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 08:57:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from solskogen@carebears.mine.nu) Received: from carebears.mine.nu (ti400720a080-2861.bb.online.no [80.212.171.45]) by mail46.fg.online.no (8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01339 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:57:16 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <3F50C956.70603@carebears.mine.nu> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:57:10 +0200 From: Christer Solskogen Organization: jduB User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030820 Mozilla Thunderbird/0.2a X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: strip FreeBSD a bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:57:19 -0000 To try to continue a previous thread.... Since perl has been moved to ports, why should not other stuff also go the same way? I`m thinking BIND and Sendmail at first. Both BIND and sendmail[2] is already in ports. [1] /usr/ports/net/bind{8,84,9} [2] /usr/ports/mail/sendmail --- Solskogen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 30 15:16:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6147E16A4BF for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEFF643FCB for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:16:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@freebsd.org) Received: from master.dougb.net (12-234-22-23.client.attbi.com[12.234.22.23](untrusted sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <200308302216220160020huge>; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 22:16:22 +0000 Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:16:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton To: Christer Solskogen In-Reply-To: <3F50C956.70603@carebears.mine.nu> Message-ID: <20030830151544.G21642@znfgre.qbhto.arg> References: <3F50C956.70603@carebears.mine.nu> Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-message-flag: Outlook -- Not just for spreading viruses anymore! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: strip FreeBSD a bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 22:16:24 -0000 On Sat, 30 Aug 2003, Christer Solskogen wrote: > To try to continue a previous thread.... > Since perl has been moved to ports, why should not other stuff also go > the same way? 1. -chat is 100% the wrong list for this. 2. There is EXTENSIVE discussion of this topic in the archives, do your homework first. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 30 23:21:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0ED16A4BF; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carebears.mine.nu (ti400720a080-2861.bb.online.no [80.212.171.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D930F43FB1; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:21:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from solskogen@carebears.mine.nu) Received: from carebears.mine.nu (funshine.carebears.net [192.168.0.9]) by carebears.mine.nu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D5FEA1098; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 08:21:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F5193E2.8060805@carebears.mine.nu> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 08:21:22 +0200 From: Christer Solskogen Organization: jduB User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030820 Mozilla Thunderbird/0.2a X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton References: <3F50C956.70603@carebears.mine.nu> <20030830151544.G21642@znfgre.qbhto.arg> In-Reply-To: <20030830151544.G21642@znfgre.qbhto.arg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: strip FreeBSD a bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 06:21:17 -0000 Doug Barton wrote: > On Sat, 30 Aug 2003, Christer Solskogen wrote: > > >>To try to continue a previous thread.... >>Since perl has been moved to ports, why should not other stuff also go >>the same way? > > > 1. -chat is 100% the wrong list for this. mmkay, what`s the right list then? After reading http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo and looking at the descriptions, this was the best i found. > 2. There is EXTENSIVE discussion of this topic in the archives, do your > homework first. > Remember what list? -- Med vennlig hilsen / Best regards Christer Solskogen http://dtz.cjb.net - http://carebears.mine.nu "Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend!" -Spider Jerusalem From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 30 23:55:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51D016A4BF for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (srv1.cosmo-project.de [213.83.6.106]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 021C943FFB for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:55:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.apsfilter.org) Received: from srv1.cosmo-project.de (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by srv1.cosmo-project.de (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7V6tBaK068532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sun, 31 Aug 2003 08:55:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.apsfilter.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost)h7V6tAk2068531; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 08:55:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.apsfilter.org) Received: from titan.klemm.apsfilter.org (localhost.klemm.apsfilter.org [127.0.0.1]) by klemm.apsfilter.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7V6oALL032116; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 08:50:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from andreas@titan.klemm.apsfilter.org) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by titan.klemm.apsfilter.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7V6oA30032115; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 08:50:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 08:50:10 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Christer Solskogen Message-ID: <20030831065010.GA23179@titan.klemm.apsfilter.org> References: <3F50C956.70603@carebears.mine.nu> <20030830151544.G21642@znfgre.qbhto.arg> <3F5193E2.8060805@carebears.mine.nu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F5193E2.8060805@carebears.mine.nu> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.1-CURRENT X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: strip FreeBSD a bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 06:55:25 -0000 Christer, I think its a bad idea to remove components from FreeBSD that everybody would expect in a BSD. I think you touch areas here like tradition ... In Linux its another thing, they don't have such a tradition, since Linux is only a kernel and Linux never defined a Linux basde system. So there you can discuss of having sendmail, exim, postfix or qmail installed by default or not. IMHO I think its a good thing that a normal FreeBSD installation includes bind and sendmail. This makes FreeBSD a complete (standard/traditional) Unix after basic installation. Things like perl had to go for other reasons in 5.x it was related to difficulties in the build process and RPITA concerning how the p5- ports fit into a scheme perl5 in base system + newer perl5 under /usr/local. Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm - Powered by FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE Need a magic printfilter today ? -> http://www.apsfilter.org/