From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 16 11:12:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE0E16A4CE for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:12:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFA843FE0 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:12:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2003111619122201500ne204e>; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:12:22 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGJAFTG082717; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:10:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hAGJA9Pq082716; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:10:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: Terry Lambert References: <20031114044623.C119838124@mail.blarg.net> <3FB6B684.F26515FB@mindspring.com> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:10:09 -0800 In-Reply-To: <3FB6B684.F26515FB@mindspring.com> (Terry Lambert's message of "Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:28:04 -0800") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: C/C++ X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:12:27 -0000 Terry Lambert writes: > Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >> underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) writes: >> > You'll find plenty of people that want to break UNIX traditions while >> > you're studying there in the Paul Allen Center, the large new CS >> > building mostly funded by him and the Gates and MSFT. You'll probably >> > even see many of them write "Unix" instead of the traditional "UNIX". >> >> "Unix" is the correct spelling. "UNIX" is a misunderstanding caused >> by the use of small caps in the title of an early paper on Unix. > > Actually, it's "UNIX", if you are referring to the image trademark, > and [Uu][Nn][Ii][Xx] if you are referring to the wordmark (wordmarks > are case insensitive). "Correct" depends upon the authority. Three occur to me: The trademark(s) specifications; the trademark owner; tradition. The trademark spec covers any letter case (as far as I have determined -- more below). Requirements for the type of trademark drawing filed required all uppercase letters in the documents and so (I'm guessing) marks that differ only by case would be considered "colorable imitations" (and so be infringing of trademark rights). (New rules allow the use of any case in the filing documents. It is still less than perfectly clear about whether it covers other cases, but I think it must, to avoid many near-duplicate trademarks.) The trademark owner uses "UNIX" at "http://www.opengroup.org" and asks for that in trademark statements. (A sidenote. Most uses of "UNIX" (in any letter case) are in contexts that do not require the permission of the trademark owner or the following of any trademark laws or owner's rules, in my layman's opinion. Of course lawsuits may be threatened regardless of this.) I'm sure many others here know UNIX tradition better than I, especially informal tradition, but I've seen the word used thousands of times, mostly in semi-formal or formal writing, and remember "UNIX" as being far more popular. (My 1978 copy of K&R's "The C Programming Language" uses "UNIX".) As for the claimed image/word mark difference, I was unfamiliar with the term "wordmark", so I search for it at http://www.uspto.gov and only got three hits; "word mark" got a couple of hundred hits. (Some of these appeared in phrases like "a two-word mark".) It's not in their glossary. I didn't find anything about letter case, except: 1) search forms for "work marks" are case-insensitive, and 2) in the rules for the "drawing" of the mark, there are several kinds; one, a "standard character" (was "typed") drawing, without any claim for font style, size, or color, and one, a "special form" drawing, with such a claim. "Word mark" is used (eg, in application and search forms) for marks with both types of drawings. I didn't bother investigating "image mark", but I've not seen the term and did see that both kinds of work marks have images associated with them in the trademark specifications. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 16 11:54:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AC5316A4CE for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB5743F93 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:54:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2003111619543201300g55she>; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:54:32 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAGJqPTG083295 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:52:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hAGJqJDv083294; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:52:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20031115204057.H9349@znfgre.qbhto.arg> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:52:19 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20031115204057.H9349@znfgre.qbhto.arg> (Doug Barton's message of "Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:42:25 -0800 (PST)") Message-ID: <6wad6wt7kc.d6w@mail.comcast.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Good basic article on unicode, etc. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:54:34 -0000 Doug Barton writes: > For those (like me) who haven't had a lot of time to learn the fine > points of unicode, here is a good introductory article on it: > > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html Which has a bonus picture of the Seattle skyline taken from an atypical photo position North of "downtown". I suspect it was taken from one of the seaplanes that buzzed my recent residence just West of the University of Washington, before landing in Lake Union, which can been seen (a little) at the bottom of the picture. A suprising choice from a guy who apparently lives in New York City. Anyway, for more details on Unicode and the UTF-8 (which FreeBSD uses, IIRC) see "UTF-8 and Unicode FAQ for Unix/Linux" by Markus Kuhn at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/unicode.html From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 13:11:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7F716A4CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:11:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.gigguardian.com (ns2.gigguardian.com [216.52.21.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22EF243FEC for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:11:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vhm3@gigguardian.com) Received: from gigguardian.com (www@localhost.gigguardian.com [127.0.0.1]) by ns2.gigguardian.com (8.12.8/8.12.6) with SMTP id hAJLX64n090671 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:33:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vhm3@gigguardian.com) Received: from ip103.palm-valley.sfo.interquest.net ([216.195.235.103]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user vhm3) by webmail.gigguardian.com with HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:33:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:33:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Chip McClure" To: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.8) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:11:50 -0000 Anyone happen to have a look at Slashdot recently? Happen to wander across an article on the next round of lawsuits, targetting the BSD community. IMO, SCO's grabbing at straws, and they're sinking fast. http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml?tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 ----- Chip McClure Sr. Unix Administrator GigGuardian, Inc. http://www.gigguardian.com/ ----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 13:23:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA9A16A4CF for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:23:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA6343F93 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:23:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin07-en2 [10.13.10.152]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.6/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id hAJLNOEa011892 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:23:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.100] (bgp585760bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.198.236]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin07/MantshX 3.0) with ESMTP id hAJLNNPd020540 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:23:23 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) In-Reply-To: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <99E31C70-1AD6-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lawrence Sica Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:23:21 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:23:25 -0000 On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:33 PM, Chip McClure wrote: > Anyone happen to have a look at Slashdot recently? Happen to wander > across > an article on the next round of lawsuits, targetting the BSD community. > > IMO, SCO's grabbing at straws, and they're sinking fast. > > http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml? > tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 > > I'm no lawyer, but I don't see how much hope SCO has. The lawsuit was settled and alll... --Larry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 13:51:11 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 918F716A4CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from priv-edtnes03-hme0.telusplanet.net (outbound01.telus.net [199.185.220.220]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DC3443FB1 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:51:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from viktorlazlo@telus.net) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (really [66.183.123.52]) by priv-edtnes03-hme0.telusplanet.netESMTP <20031119215110.EUJZ7077.priv-edtnes03-hme0.telusplanet.net@[192.168.1.101]>; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:51:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:51:08 -0800 (PST) From: Viktor Lazlo X-X-Sender: viktorlazlo@d66-183-123-52.bchsia.telus.net To: Lawrence Sica In-Reply-To: <99E31C70-1AD6-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031119133124.A3269@d66-183-123-52.bchsia.telus.net> References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <99E31C70-1AD6-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:51:11 -0000 On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Lawrence Sica wrote: > > On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:33 PM, Chip McClure wrote: > > > Anyone happen to have a look at Slashdot recently? Happen to wander > > across > > an article on the next round of lawsuits, targetting the BSD community. > > > > IMO, SCO's grabbing at straws, and they're sinking fast. > > > > http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml? > > tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 > > > > > I'm no lawyer, but I don't see how much hope SCO has. The lawsuit was > settled and alll... Settled out of court though, which means there was no legal resolution, giving them some potential, although unlikely, room for leverage. Cheers, Viktor From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 13:56:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 288A316A4CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-85.apple.com [17.250.248.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C36B43FAF for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:56:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin07-en2 [10.13.10.152]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id hAJLu3IZ005432; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:56:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.100] (bgp585760bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.198.236]) (authenticated bits=0)hAJLu3Pd003406; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:56:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20031119133124.A3269@d66-183-123-52.bchsia.telus.net> References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <99E31C70-1AD6-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> <20031119133124.A3269@d66-183-123-52.bchsia.telus.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <29E59287-1ADB-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lawrence Sica Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:56:01 -0500 To: Viktor Lazlo X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:56:05 -0000 On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:51 PM, Viktor Lazlo wrote: > > > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> >> On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:33 PM, Chip McClure wrote: >> >>> Anyone happen to have a look at Slashdot recently? Happen to wander >>> across >>> an article on the next round of lawsuits, targetting the BSD >>> community. >>> >>> IMO, SCO's grabbing at straws, and they're sinking fast. >>> >>> http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml? >>> tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 >>> >>> >> I'm no lawyer, but I don't see how much hope SCO has. The lawsuit was >> settled and alll... > > Settled out of court though, which means there was no legal resolution, > giving them some potential, although unlikely, room for leverage. > IIRC the settlement has to be approved by a judge. --Larry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 14:05:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00E316A4CF for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:05:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp5.knology.net (smtp5.knology.net [24.236.126.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5648443FAF for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:05:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@HiWAAY.net) Received: (qmail 20294 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2003 22:05:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO user-24-214-34-52.knology.net) (24.214.34.52) by smtp5.knology.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2003 22:05:00 -0000 From: David Kelly To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:04:56 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <99E31C70-1AD6-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> <20031119133124.A3269@d66-183-123-52.bchsia.telus.net> In-Reply-To: <20031119133124.A3269@d66-183-123-52.bchsia.telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311191604.56197.dkelly@HiWAAY.net> Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:05:02 -0000 On Wednesday 19 November 2003 03:51 pm, Viktor Lazlo wrote: > > Settled out of court though, which means there was no legal > resolution, giving them some potential, although unlikely, room for > leverage. Even so the settlement becomes a contract. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 14:30:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9983E16A4CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.167]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45DD544013 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:30:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan1.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.166] helo=localhost) by tx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMaqR-0006n5-H2 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:30:43 +0000 Received: from rx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.165]) by localhost (scan1.oucs.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.166]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 25842-07 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:30:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx1.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMaqR-0006n2-3d for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:30:43 +0000 Received: (qmail 3359 invoked by uid 0); 19 Nov 2003 22:30:43 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.16 (sweep: 2.14/3.71. spamassassin: 2.53. Clear:. Processed in 1.624407 secs); 19 Nov 2003 22:30:43 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk via gateway X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.16 (Clear:. Processed in 1.624407 secs) Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 19 Nov 2003 22:30:41 -0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20031119222308.02cd8380@popserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@popserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:30:39 +0000 To: "Chip McClure" , From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguard ian.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:30:47 -0000 At 13:33 19/11/2003 -0800, Chip McClure wrote: >Anyone happen to have a look at Slashdot recently? Happen to wander across >an article on the next round of lawsuits, targetting the BSD community. > >IMO, SCO's grabbing at straws, and they're sinking fast. > >http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml?tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 Personally, I read this as "the SCO-is-evil crowd is grasping at straws". McBride said: >But more importantly, what we are announcing today is a substantial number >of copyright issues that relate to a settlement agreement that is already >in place around the BSD settlement from the 1994 time frame. As we move >forward, we will be outlining those issues I don't know how people get from there to "SCO is about to sue BSD"; all he's saying is that someone has stolen code which *isn't* BSD -- code which the settlement agreed belonged to AT&T (err, Novell). The standard operating procedure of slashzealots seems to be "take a perfectly reasonable comment, find the most bizarre misinterpretation possible, and laugh at that misinterpretation". Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 14:46:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE9616A4CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:46:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from shaft.techsupport.co.uk (shaft.techsupport.co.uk [212.250.77.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCEF443F3F for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:46:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from cpc2-cdif3-6-0-cust204.cdif.cable.ntl.com ([81.103.67.204] helo=shrike.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AMb5T-00036F-Ob; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:46:15 +0000 Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AMb5R-000GSu-BA; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:46:13 +0000 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:46:13 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20031119224613.GI66785@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Colin Percival , Chip McClure , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <5.0.2.1.1.20031119222308.02cd8380@popserver.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IuhbYIxU28t+Kd57" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20031119222308.02cd8380@popserver.sfu.ca> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: Ceri Davies cc: Chip McClure cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:46:21 -0000 --IuhbYIxU28t+Kd57 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 10:30:39PM +0000, Colin Percival wrote: > At 13:33 19/11/2003 -0800, Chip McClure wrote: > >Anyone happen to have a look at Slashdot recently? Happen to wander acro= ss > >an article on the next round of lawsuits, targetting the BSD community. > > > >IMO, SCO's grabbing at straws, and they're sinking fast. > > > >http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml?tid=3D2&tid=3D8= 2&tid=3D85&tid=3D94 >=20 > Personally, I read this as "the SCO-is-evil crowd is grasping at straws= ". >=20 > McBride said: > >But more importantly, what we are announcing today is a substantial numb= er=20 > >of copyright issues that relate to a settlement agreement that is alread= y=20 > >in place around the BSD settlement from the 1994 time frame. As we move= =20 > >forward, we will be outlining those issues >=20 > I don't know how people get from there to "SCO is about to sue BSD"; al= l=20 > he's saying is that someone has stolen code which *isn't* BSD -- code whi= ch=20 > the settlement agreed belonged to AT&T (err, Novell). =46rom http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article.php/3110981: "I agree that the more yarn you pull out the more you see," McBride said during a press briefing at the inaugural Enterprise IT Week at cdXpo Conference here. "We have enough sorted out, but we are so focused on the [IBM litigation]. With our limited energies and what our guys are going through, we probably won't file any suits against BSD until sometime in the first half of next year."=20 Ceri --=20 --IuhbYIxU28t+Kd57 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/u/K1ocfcwTS3JF8RAmQHAJwNoLSd+4GcbB+ezK3d5H/hQhQpiQCfWNrp Yj3CbfHhzFNm/ByvUaU6zVY= =4Opr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IuhbYIxU28t+Kd57-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 15:35:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79FF16A4CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:35:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ozlabs.org (ozlabs.org [203.10.76.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6123343F85 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:35:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from blackwater.lemis.com (blackwater.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A7692BD0F for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:35:31 +1100 (EST) Received: by blackwater.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 0921E511FC; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:05:29 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:05:29 +1030 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Ceri Davies , Colin Percival , Chip McClure , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031119233528.GB22360@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <5.0.2.1.1.20031119222308.02cd8380@popserver.sfu.ca> <20031119224613.GI66785@submonkey.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="98e8jtXdkpgskNou" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031119224613.GI66785@submonkey.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:35:35 -0000 --98e8jtXdkpgskNou Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday, 19 November 2003 at 22:46:13 +0000, Ceri Davies wrote: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 10:30:39PM +0000, Colin Percival wrote: >> At 13:33 19/11/2003 -0800, Chip McClure wrote: >>> Anyone happen to have a look at Slashdot recently? Happen to wander across >>> an article on the next round of lawsuits, targetting the BSD community. >>> >>> IMO, SCO's grabbing at straws, and they're sinking fast. >>> >>> http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml?tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 >> >> Personally, I read this as "the SCO-is-evil crowd is grasping at straws". >> >> McBride said: >>> But more importantly, what we are announcing today is a substantial number >>> of copyright issues that relate to a settlement agreement that is already >>> in place around the BSD settlement from the 1994 time frame. As we move >>> forward, we will be outlining those issues >> >> I don't know how people get from there to "SCO is about to sue BSD"; all >> he's saying is that someone has stolen code which *isn't* BSD -- code which >> the settlement agreed belonged to AT&T (err, Novell). > > From http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article.php/3110981: > > "I agree that the more yarn you pull out the more you see," McBride said > during a press briefing at the inaugural Enterprise IT Week at cdXpo > Conference here. "We have enough sorted out, but we are so focused on > the [IBM litigation]. With our limited energies and what our guys are > going through, we probably won't file any suits against BSD until > sometime in the first half of next year." If you look at the followups to the newsforge article, you'll see (by gumout): In case you missed it above: "THE LAWSUIT SETTLEMENT ALSO STIPULATED THAT USL WOULD NOT SUE ANY ORGANIZATION USING 4.4BSD-LITE AS THE BASE FOR THEIR SYSTEM." This seems reasonable. But of course, it's been overtaken by events. SCO themselves released the code in question as open source early last year. See http://www.lemis.com/grog/UNIX/ for details. Yes, this isn't on the SCO web site, and it never was, but plenty of the people involved can confirm in court that it's genuine. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers. --98e8jtXdkpgskNou Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/u/5AIubykFB6QiMRAl8mAKCZ1jbd4Ti4OSQSQ/dsN2oJVysaiACgoU9s SgFUzOF3fCNBTHHjXjapjEw= =kzDY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --98e8jtXdkpgskNou-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 15:51:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8897E16A4CF; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:51:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from shaft.techsupport.co.uk (shaft.techsupport.co.uk [212.250.77.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A1AF43F75; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:50:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from cpc2-cdif3-6-0-cust204.cdif.cable.ntl.com ([81.103.67.204] helo=shrike.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AMc5n-0002DZ-1q; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:50:39 +0000 Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AMc5f-000GbR-EJ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:50:31 +0000 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:50:31 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Message-ID: <20031119235031.GJ66785@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Greg 'groggy' Lehey , Colin Percival , Chip McClure , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <5.0.2.1.1.20031119222308.02cd8380@popserver.sfu.ca> <20031119224613.GI66785@submonkey.net> <20031119233528.GB22360@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KscVNZbUup0vZz0f" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031119233528.GB22360@wantadilla.lemis.com> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: Ceri Davies cc: Chip McClure cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:51:57 -0000 --KscVNZbUup0vZz0f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 10:05:29AM +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Wednesday, 19 November 2003 at 22:46:13 +0000, Ceri Davies wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 10:30:39PM +0000, Colin Percival wrote: > >> At 13:33 19/11/2003 -0800, Chip McClure wrote: > >>> Anyone happen to have a look at Slashdot recently? Happen to wander a= cross > >>> an article on the next round of lawsuits, targetting the BSD communit= y. > >>> > >>> IMO, SCO's grabbing at straws, and they're sinking fast. > >>> > >>> http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml?tid=3D2&tid= =3D82&tid=3D85&tid=3D94 > >> > >> Personally, I read this as "the SCO-is-evil crowd is grasping at str= aws". > >> > >> McBride said: > >>> But more importantly, what we are announcing today is a substantial n= umber > >>> of copyright issues that relate to a settlement agreement that is alr= eady > >>> in place around the BSD settlement from the 1994 time frame. As we mo= ve > >>> forward, we will be outlining those issues > >> > >> I don't know how people get from there to "SCO is about to sue BSD";= all > >> he's saying is that someone has stolen code which *isn't* BSD -- code = which > >> the settlement agreed belonged to AT&T (err, Novell). > > > > From http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article.php/3110981: > > > > "I agree that the more yarn you pull out the more you see," McBride said > > during a press briefing at the inaugural Enterprise IT Week at cdXpo > > Conference here. "We have enough sorted out, but we are so focused on > > the [IBM litigation]. With our limited energies and what our guys are > > going through, we probably won't file any suits against BSD until > > sometime in the first half of next year." >=20 > If you look at the followups to the newsforge article, you'll see (by gum= out): >=20 > In case you missed it above: >=20 > "THE LAWSUIT SETTLEMENT ALSO STIPULATED THAT USL WOULD NOT SUE ANY > ORGANIZATION USING 4.4BSD-LITE AS THE BASE FOR THEIR SYSTEM." Absolutely, I'm aware of that. I was just pulling out the quote for Colin's benefit, as he said: > >> I don't know how people get from there to "SCO is about to sue BSD" This is how ;-) Ceri --=20 --KscVNZbUup0vZz0f Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/vAHHocfcwTS3JF8RArmDAJ9z+N1A+MMJh4PRsVqnWKHz5B+v9gCfVnit BFdX6GHhJpuzze0q05TgPgI= =GA5e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KscVNZbUup0vZz0f-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 17:11:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40DCB16A4CE; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:11:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from iwmail.xpdial.com (iwgate.xpdial.com [68.156.89.106]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15C943F85; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:11:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@s-wit.net) Received: from [24.73.52.111] by iwmail.xpdial.com (ArGoSoft Mail Server Pro for WinNT/2000/XP, Version 1.8 (1.8.4.1)); Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:14:53 -0500 Message-ID: <002201c3af03$38ccbb90$0100000a@Biggie> From: "SWIT" To: , "Sean Countryman" References: <44y8ucoug5.fsf@be-well.ilk.org><001701c3aeff$7f1ee310$1a00a8c0@ServerRanch.local> <20031120005218.GA76590@xor.obsecurity.org> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:11:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO going after BSD??? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 01:11:30 -0000 is this a unix thing or what. many times i get messages from the list were the message is an attachment and not in the email. was curious as to why. thanks newbie marine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Kennaway" To: "Sean Countryman" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 7:52 PM Subject: Re: SCO going after BSD??? From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 17:38:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B4CB16A4CE; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:38:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92ABF43F93; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:38:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@zer0.org) Received: by mail1.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5AECC239A0B; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:38:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:38:31 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: SWIT Message-ID: <20031120013831.GT98272@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <20031120005218.GA76590@xor.obsecurity.org> <002201c3af03$38ccbb90$0100000a@Biggie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <002201c3af03$38ccbb90$0100000a@Biggie> Organization: Zer0 X-Purpose: For great justice! Mail-Copies-To: poster X-PGP-Fingerprint: D161 E4EA 4BFA 2427 F3F9 5B1F 2015 31D5 845D FEDD X-PGP-Key: http://zer0.org/~gsutter/gsutter.pgp X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: chat@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO going after BSD??? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 01:38:35 -0000 On 2003-11-19 20:11 -0500, SWIT wrote: > is this a unix thing or what. > many times i get messages from the list were the message is an attachment > and not in the email. > was curious as to why. The messages you see as attachments are messages that have been PGP signed to prove their authenticity. The problem is with Outlook Express. Not only does it fail to support PGP/MIME (many programs don't support PGP/MIME and still can display PGP signed email correctly), but it is actually broken. Outlook Express ignores the following MIME headers in the message: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline These headers show that the part is not an attachment but should be displayed inline, and that it contains pure text that doesn't need a special handler to be displayed. Why Outlook Express fails to recognize this, and why Microsoft fails to issue a patch to fix the problem, is unknown. [ Response paraphrased from: http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2003-September/020155.html ] Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Fighting ignorance since 1975! mailto:gsutter@zer0.org (It's taking longer than I thought.) http://zer0.org/~gsutter/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 18:18:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F061216A4CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:18:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ganymede.hub.org (u46n208.hfx.eastlink.ca [24.222.46.208]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A7543F75 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:18:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DDAD135390; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:16:09 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C62CA351FA; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:16:09 -0400 (AST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:16:09 -0400 (AST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Ceri Davies In-Reply-To: <20031119224613.GI66785@submonkey.net> Message-ID: <20031119221537.O731@ganymede.hub.org> References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <20031119224613.GI66785@submonkey.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Chip McClure cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 02:18:37 -0000 On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Ceri Davies wrote: > "I agree that the more yarn you pull out the more you see," McBride said > during a press briefing at the inaugural Enterprise IT Week at cdXpo > Conference here. "We have enough sorted out, but we are so focused on > the [IBM litigation]. With our limited energies and what our guys are > going through, we probably won't file any suits against BSD until > sometime in the first half of next year." Um ... who is BSD? *scratch head* Or do they intend to sue Berkeley themselves? ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 20:29:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF1E916A4CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp106.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp106.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.169.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E5D643FB1 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:29:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mnslinky@yahoo.com) Received: from c-66-41-18-160.mn.client2.attbi.com (HELO Nomad) (mnslinky@66.41.18.160 with login) by smtp-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2003 04:29:01 -0000 From: "Minnesota Slinky" To: "'Gregory Sutter'" , "'SWIT'" Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:28:04 -0600 Message-ID: <000c01c3af1e$b42e9fe0$6801a8c0@Nomad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <20031120013831.GT98272@klapaucius.zer0.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal cc: chat@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: SCO going after BSD??? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:29:03 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Sutter Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 7:39 PM To: SWIT Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO going after BSD??? On 2003-11-19 20:11 -0500, SWIT wrote: > is this a unix thing or what. > many times i get messages from the list were the message is an attachment > and not in the email. > was curious as to why. The messages you see as attachments are messages that have been PGP signed to prove their authenticity. The problem is with Outlook Express. Not only does it fail to support PGP/MIME (many programs don't support PGP/MIME and still can display PGP signed email correctly), but it is actually broken. Outlook Express ignores the following MIME headers in the message: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline These headers show that the part is not an attachment but should be displayed inline, and that it contains pure text that doesn't need a special handler to be displayed. Why Outlook Express fails to recognize this, and why Microsoft fails to issue a patch to fix the problem, is unknown. [ Response paraphrased from: http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2003-September/020155.html ] Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Fighting ignorance since 1975! mailto:gsutter@zer0.org (It's taking longer than I thought.) http://zer0.org/~gsutter/ _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org I talked to a couple of people who do beta testing for Microsoft and they said the issue came up a few years ago. According to them (one being my father), it has to do with security and virus protection. Again, this is second-hand, so take it for what it's worth... Eric F Crist President AdTech Integrated Systems, Inc (952) 403-9000 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 20:57:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F72716A4CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:57:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-in.m-online.net (svr8.m-online.net [62.245.150.237]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7BBC43F93 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:57:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from h@schmalzbauer.de) Received: from mail.m-online.net (svr14.m-online.net [192.168.3.144]) by svr8.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2551254; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:57:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from cale.flintsbach.schmalzbauer.de (ppp-62-245-232-97.mnet-online.de [62.245.232.97]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C81519CE1; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:57:45 +0100 (CET) From: Harald Schmalzbauer To: "Minnesota Slinky" , "'Gregory Sutter'" , "'SWIT'" Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:57:39 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <000c01c3af1e$b42e9fe0$6801a8c0@Nomad> In-Reply-To: <000c01c3af1e$b42e9fe0$6801a8c0@Nomad> X-Birthday: 06 Oktober 1972 X-Name: Harald Schmalzbauer X-Phone1: +49 (0) 163 555 3237 X-Phone2: +49 (0) 89 18947781 X-Address: Munich, 80686 X-Country: Germany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Boundary-02=_InEv/OqNLREpMwX"; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200311200557.45071@harrymail> cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO going after BSD??? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:57:56 -0000 --Boundary-02=_InEv/OqNLREpMwX Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: signed data Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday 20 November 2003 05:28, Minnesota Slinky wrote: >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Sutter > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 7:39 PM > To: SWIT > Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: SCO going after BSD??? >=20 > On 2003-11-19 20:11 -0500, SWIT wrote: > > is this a unix thing or what. > > many times i get messages from the list were the message is an > attachment > > and not in the email. > > was curious as to why. >=20 > The messages you see as attachments are messages that have been PGP > signed to prove their authenticity. The problem is with Outlook > Express. Not only does it fail to support PGP/MIME (many programs > don't support PGP/MIME and still can display PGP signed email > correctly), but it is actually broken. Outlook Express ignores the > following MIME headers in the message: >=20 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline >=20 > These headers show that the part is not an attachment but should be > displayed inline, and that it contains pure text that doesn't need a > special handler to be displayed. Why Outlook Express fails to > recognize this, and why Microsoft fails to issue a patch to fix the > problem, is unknown. >=20 > [ > Response paraphrased from: > http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2003-September/020155.html > ] >=20 > Greg > --=20 > Gregory S. Sutter Fighting ignorance since 1975! > mailto:gsutter@zer0.org (It's taking longer than I thought.) > http://zer0.org/~gsutter/ > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org >=20 >=20 > I talked to a couple of people who do beta testing for Microsoft and > they said the issue came up a few years ago. According to them (one > being my father), it has to do with security and virus protection. Yea, of course I undertand that they're concentrating on text/plain viruses= =2E=20 =46irst they have to get this problem fixed, then they'll perhaps have a lo= ok=20 at executables. And if they make bulbs, darkness will be standard... SCNR =2DHarry P.S.: Please always answer above signatures. Good MUAs will strip them when= =20 quoting so everybody has to change settings to be able to answer! > Again, this is second-hand, so take it for what it's worth... >=20 > Eric F Crist > President > AdTech Integrated Systems, Inc > (952) 403-9000 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" >=20 >=20 --Boundary-02=_InEv/OqNLREpMwX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA/vEnIBylq0S4AzzwRAsPOAKCQOKElRg80HMAPKGc8PWFQ9scAEQCfQ/3N MaIip9GAnKlXLBQ263V8q7E= =Hb8d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Boundary-02=_InEv/OqNLREpMwX-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 23:00:32 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B0F16A4CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:00:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15CAC43FAF for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:00:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin07-en2 [10.13.10.152]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id hAK70Vpd019826; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.100] (bgp585760bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.198.236]) (authenticated bits=0)hAK70TPd025612; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:00:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20031119221537.O731@ganymede.hub.org> References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <20031119224613.GI66785@submonkey.net> <20031119221537.O731@ganymede.hub.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <388284A0-1B27-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lawrence Sica Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 02:00:27 -0500 To: "Marc G. Fournier" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Chip McClure Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:00:33 -0000 On Nov 19, 2003, at 9:16 PM, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Ceri Davies wrote: > >> "I agree that the more yarn you pull out the more you see," McBride >> said >> during a press briefing at the inaugural Enterprise IT Week at cdXpo >> Conference here. "We have enough sorted out, but we are so focused on >> the [IBM litigation]. With our limited energies and what our guys are >> going through, we probably won't file any suits against BSD until >> sometime in the first half of next year." > > Um ... who is BSD? *scratch head* Or do they intend to sue Berkeley > themselves? > The various *BSDs and Apple one must assume. Apple is probably a prime target. --Larry > ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services > (http://www.hub.org) > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: > 7615664 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 19 23:24:25 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6506816A4CF; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:24:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-234.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B0AC43FD7; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:24:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F3EAA66C55; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:24:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:24:23 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Minnesota Slinky Message-ID: <20031120072423.GA80697@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20031120013831.GT98272@klapaucius.zer0.org> <000c01c3af1e$b42e9fe0$6801a8c0@Nomad> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000c01c3af1e$b42e9fe0$6801a8c0@Nomad> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: 'SWIT' cc: chat@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO going after BSD??? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:24:25 -0000 --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 10:28:04PM -0600, Minnesota Slinky wrote: > I talked to a couple of people who do beta testing for Microsoft and > they said the issue came up a few years ago. According to them (one > being my father), it has to do with security and virus protection. > Again, this is second-hand, so take it for what it's worth... There's no possible sense in which this can be true. Plain text attachments do not create a security or virus risk. Kris --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/vGwnWry0BWjoQKURAsVuAJ9GgqpbLGMdrWXcukB3Cd4L8D8R/QCcDcDh R3dazMObaw/QN4AwIY7ABTY= =Q1e3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 20 02:30:13 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5050816A4CE for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 02:30:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from shaft.techsupport.co.uk (shaft.techsupport.co.uk [212.250.77.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EC9843FDF for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 02:30:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from cpc2-cdif3-6-0-cust204.cdif.cable.ntl.com ([81.103.67.204] helo=shrike.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AMm4b-0001kN-3B; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:30:05 +0000 Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AMm4W-000Hyr-FN; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:30:00 +0000 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:30:00 +0000 From: Ceri Davies To: Lawrence Sica Message-ID: <20031120103000.GM66785@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Lawrence Sica , "Marc G. Fournier" , Chip McClure , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <20031119224613.GI66785@submonkey.net> <20031119221537.O731@ganymede.hub.org> <388284A0-1B27-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="/0P/MvzTfyTu5j9Q" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <388284A0-1B27-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: Ceri Davies cc: Chip McClure cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:30:13 -0000 --/0P/MvzTfyTu5j9Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 02:00:27AM -0500, Lawrence Sica wrote: > On Nov 19, 2003, at 9:16 PM, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > >On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Ceri Davies wrote: > > > >>"I agree that the more yarn you pull out the more you see," McBride=20 > >>said > >>during a press briefing at the inaugural Enterprise IT Week at cdXpo > >>Conference here. "We have enough sorted out, but we are so focused on > >>the [IBM litigation]. With our limited energies and what our guys are > >>going through, we probably won't file any suits against BSD until > >>sometime in the first half of next year." > > > >Um ... who is BSD? *scratch head* Or do they intend to sue Berkeley > >themselves? >=20 > The various *BSDs and Apple one must assume. Apple is probably a=20 > prime target. Well Apple aren't using a BSD kernel as I understand it, so they're probably safe. Ceri --=20 --/0P/MvzTfyTu5j9Q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/vJeoocfcwTS3JF8RAkdmAJ4lkJJcKO7b5Y2Yd97+hNjM5yx/RgCeLLaw TL8o5sDwahcll3Kycjurx/0= =4TqL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/0P/MvzTfyTu5j9Q-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 20 03:15:21 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948A516A4CE for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:15:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from charentes.fr.clara.net (charentes.fr.clara.net [212.43.194.76]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6882C43F3F for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:15:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ogautherot@freesurf.fr) Received: from mail.freesurf.fr (mail.freesurf.fr [212.43.206.50]) by charentes.fr.clara.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C8359A70; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:15:14 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.freesurf.fr (Postfix, from userid 5000) id D3A36E4A01; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:15:12 +0100 (CET) References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <20031119224613.GI66785@submonkey.net> <20031119221537.O731@ganymede.hub.org> <388284A0-1B27-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> <20031120103000.GM66785@submonkey.net> In-Reply-To: <20031120103000.GM66785@submonkey.net> From: ogautherot@freesurf.fr To: Ceri Davies Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:15:12 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: ogautherot@freesurf.fr Message-Id: <20031120111512.D3A36E4A01@mail.freesurf.fr> cc: Chip McClure cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:15:21 -0000 Ceri Davies écrit: > On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 02:00:27AM -0500, Lawrence Sica wrote: > > On Nov 19, 2003, at 9:16 PM, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > >On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Ceri Davies wrote: > > > > > >>"I agree that the more yarn you pull out the more you see," McBride > > >>said > > >>during a press briefing at the inaugural Enterprise IT Week at cdXpo > > >>Conference here. "We have enough sorted out, but we are so focused on > > >>the [IBM litigation]. With our limited energies and what our guys are > > >>going through, we probably won't file any suits against BSD until > > >>sometime in the first half of next year." > > > > > >Um ... who is BSD? *scratch head* Or do they intend to sue Berkeley > > >themselves? > > > > The various *BSDs and Apple one must assume. Apple is probably a > > prime target. > > Well Apple aren't using a BSD kernel as I understand it, so they're > probably safe. > > Ceri > > -- Darwin (the new Apple kernel) is based on BSD so, eventually, the Mc Bride could sue them too. BSD went already through the UNIX lawsuit process a few years ago and the code base is supposed to be clean by now. I suppose they want to sue BSD for the code they highjacked (which they are allowed to according to the BSD license) and want to make people pay to use their own work. This is insane. He must be really desperate for money... Why don't we ask Bill Gates to license the patent on binary code to SCO Group? Sounds like a good time... From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 20 03:29:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1620616A4CF for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.des.no (flood.des.no [217.116.83.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE3B43F75 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:29:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id 70D8D5309; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:29:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id 1BE685308; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:29:41 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 99AB933C7C; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:29:40 +0100 (CET) To: ogautherot@freesurf.fr References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <20031119224613.GI66785@submonkey.net> <20031119221537.O731@ganymede.hub.org> <388284A0-1B27-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> <20031120103000.GM66785@submonkey.net> <20031120111512.D3A36E4A01@mail.freesurf.fr> From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:29:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20031120111512.D3A36E4A01@mail.freesurf.fr> (ogautherot@freesurf.fr's message of "Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:15:12 GMT") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on flood.des.no X-Spam-Level: ss X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK autolearn=no version=2.60 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Chip McClure Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:29:52 -0000 ogautherot@freesurf.fr writes: > Darwin (the new Apple kernel) is based on BSD so, eventually, the Mc > Bride could sue them too. Darwin is not just the kernel. Darwin is pretty much everything except the GUI. Although there is a lot of BSD code in the Darwin userland, It is not entirely clear to me how much there is in the kernel. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 20 05:00:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBAAB16A4CF for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:00:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9BD44001 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:00:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfikl.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.202.149] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AMoQK-0006vv-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:00:41 -0800 Message-ID: <3FBCBA3D.385FB51B@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:57:33 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Viktor Lazlo References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <20031119133124.A3269@d66-183-123-52.bchsia.telus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4d7caf28e3871cac393c291a5b0ef48a793caf27dac41a8fd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:00:54 -0000 Viktor Lazlo wrote: > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Lawrence Sica wrote: > > I'm no lawyer, but I don't see how much hope SCO has. The lawsuit was > > settled and alll... > > Settled out of court though, which means there was no legal resolution, > giving them some potential, although unlikely, room for leverage. Except to even reraise the issue, they would have to disclose information which was sealed under court order from a U.S. Federal District Court Judge, thus violating said court order... -- Terry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 20 05:17:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD6916A4D2; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:17:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net (razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1E1943F85; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:17:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfikl.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.202.149] helo=mindspring.com) by razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AMogG-00072I-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:17:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3FBCBDF9.A9F9EB66@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:13:29 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory Sutter References: <20031120005218.GA76590@xor.obsecurity.org> <20031120013831.GT98272@klapaucius.zer0.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a429a5dfd8b590227ff4402f05b86b0f6293caf27dac41a8fd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: SWIT cc: chat@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO going after BSD??? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:17:13 -0000 Gregory Sutter wrote: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > > These headers show that the part is not an attachment but should be > displayed inline, and that it contains pure text that doesn't need a > special handler to be displayed. Why Outlook Express fails to > recognize this, and why Microsoft fails to issue a patch to fix the > problem, is unknown. Most mail worm implmentations uses an inline disposition to force the activation of an exploitable helper program to interpret content when the message is opened. Yes, they should recognize that text/plain is not an exploitable type unless there is a registered external "helper" for that type that overrides internal rendering as plain text (e.g. "Word"), even though text/html is, bt at least they are attempting to prevent exploits these days. FWIW, most mail programs don't recognize multipart/*, and will only render in the case of multipart/mixed or multipart/message messages. Also, for a signed message, there is no reason to put the text part in a separate container object, unless your mail program is stupid, since there is still a global RFC-822 message body that pertains following the at the end of the last header line, and prior to the declared "boundary=" from the RFC-822 header's "Content-Type:" header line. In other words, a content type part of "text/plain", even on a "multipart/mixed" is unnecessary extra encapsulation, and just makes the mail a PITA to read because you can't trust attachments, and stupid programrs should stop doing MIME encapsulation unnecessarily, just because it's easier, or because they've figured out how, or because they're too lazy to deal with the text part being at a higher point in the hierarch than the signature part, or because they're using limited capability class libraries to implement their MIME. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 20 05:19:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE73616A4CF for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:19:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net (razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 583A743FA3 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:19:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfikl.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.202.149] helo=mindspring.com) by razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AMoiS-0007PR-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:19:24 -0800 Message-ID: <3FBCBE7D.DA14199@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:15:41 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Marc G. Fournier" References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <20031119221537.O731@ganymede.hub.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a429a5dfd8b590227f05cc536492bce0de3ca473d225a0f487350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Chip McClure Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:19:45 -0000 "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Ceri Davies wrote: > > "I agree that the more yarn you pull out the more you see," McBride said > > during a press briefing at the inaugural Enterprise IT Week at cdXpo > > Conference here. "We have enough sorted out, but we are so focused on > > the [IBM litigation]. With our limited energies and what our guys are > > going through, we probably won't file any suits against BSD until > > sometime in the first half of next year." > > Um ... who is BSD? *scratch head* Or do they intend to sue Berkeley > themselves? Clearly, if they are referring to the settlement, they would have to go after the people with whom they settled, or their assigns. That would be BSDI (now Wind River Systems) and the Regents of the University of California, Berkeley. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 20 05:24:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D4516A4CE; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:24:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net (razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.248]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88BBF43FF5; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:24:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfikl.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.202.149] helo=mindspring.com) by razorbill.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AMoms-0000Pn-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:23:58 -0800 Message-ID: <3FBCBF85.3CC58588@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:20:05 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kris Kennaway References: <20031120013831.GT98272@klapaucius.zer0.org> <20031120072423.GA80697@xor.obsecurity.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a429a5dfd8b590227f956b25fefab4ec8e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: Minnesota Slinky cc: chat@FreeBSD.org cc: 'SWIT' cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO going after BSD??? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:24:33 -0000 Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 10:28:04PM -0600, Minnesota Slinky wrote: > > > I talked to a couple of people who do beta testing for Microsoft and > > they said the issue came up a few years ago. According to them (one > > being my father), it has to do with security and virus protection. > > Again, this is second-hand, so take it for what it's worth... > > There's no possible sense in which this can be true. Plain text > attachments do not create a security or virus risk. When your message has "Content-Disposition: inline", and the handler for rendeing "Content-type: text/plain" happens to be Microsoft Word... -- Terry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 20 05:31:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7321316A4CE for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:31:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72A843FD7 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:31:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-chat-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from be-well.no-ip.com ([66.30.200.37]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2003112013314601300mlm3qe>; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:31:46 +0000 Received: by be-well.no-ip.com (Postfix, from userid 1147) id 040D23A; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:31:45 -0500 (EST) Sender: lowell@be-well.ilk.org To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20031120013831.GT98272@klapaucius.zer0.org> <000c01c3af1e$b42e9fe0$6801a8c0@Nomad> <20031120072423.GA80697@xor.obsecurity.org> From: Lowell Gilbert Date: 20 Nov 2003 08:31:45 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20031120072423.GA80697@xor.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: <44vfpfp3ni.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: SCO going after BSD??? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:31:47 -0000 Kris Kennaway writes: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 10:28:04PM -0600, Minnesota Slinky wrote: > > > I talked to a couple of people who do beta testing for Microsoft and > > they said the issue came up a few years ago. According to them (one > > being my father), it has to do with security and virus protection. > > Again, this is second-hand, so take it for what it's worth... > > There's no possible sense in which this can be true. Plain text > attachments do not create a security or virus risk. You're just not being as creative as Microsoft's designers. They've managed to find a way. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 20 11:43:31 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5841016A4CE for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:43:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (A17-250-248-97.apple.com [17.250.248.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7148D43FCB for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:43:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin07-en2 [10.13.10.152]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id hAKJhUpd027418; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:43:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.100] (bgp585760bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.198.236]) (authenticated bits=0)hAKJhTPd015180; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:43:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20031120111512.D3A36E4A01@mail.freesurf.fr> References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <20031119224613.GI66785@submonkey.net> <20031119221537.O731@ganymede.hub.org> <388284A0-1B27-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> <20031120103000.GM66785@submonkey.net> <20031120111512.D3A36E4A01@mail.freesurf.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Lawrence Sica Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:43:26 -0500 To: ogautherot@freesurf.fr X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Chip McClure Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:43:31 -0000 On Nov 20, 2003, at 6:15 AM, ogautherot@freesurf.fr wrote: > > Ceri Davies =E9crit: > >> On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 02:00:27AM -0500, Lawrence Sica wrote: >>> On Nov 19, 2003, at 9:16 PM, Marc G. Fournier wrote: >>>> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Ceri Davies wrote: >>>> >>>>> "I agree that the more yarn you pull out the more you see," = McBride >>>>> said >>>>> during a press briefing at the inaugural Enterprise IT Week at=20 >>>>> cdXpo >>>>> Conference here. "We have enough sorted out, but we are so focused=20= >>>>> on >>>>> the [IBM litigation]. With our limited energies and what our guys=20= >>>>> are >>>>> going through, we probably won't file any suits against BSD until >>>>> sometime in the first half of next year." >>>> >>>> Um ... who is BSD? *scratch head* Or do they intend to sue = Berkeley >>>> themselves? >>> >>> The various *BSDs and Apple one must assume. Apple is probably a >>> prime target. >> >> Well Apple aren't using a BSD kernel as I understand it, so they're >> probably safe. >> >> Ceri >> >> --=20 > > Darwin (the new Apple kernel) is based on BSD so, eventually, the Mc=20= > Bride > could sue them too. > The kernel is Mach based, the userland is BSD based though. --Larry= From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 20 11:44:15 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D626916A4CE for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:44:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D93D43FAF for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:44:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin07-en2 [10.13.10.152]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id hAKJiCpd027728; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:44:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.100] (bgp585760bgs.jdover01.nj.comcast.net [68.39.198.236]) (authenticated bits=0)hAKJhTPe015180; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:44:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <3FBCBE7D.DA14199@mindspring.com> References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <20031119221537.O731@ganymede.hub.org> <3FBCBE7D.DA14199@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lawrence Sica Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:44:12 -0500 To: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) cc: Chip McClure cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:44:16 -0000 On Nov 20, 2003, at 8:15 AM, Terry Lambert wrote: > "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: >> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Ceri Davies wrote: >>> "I agree that the more yarn you pull out the more you see," McBride >>> said >>> during a press briefing at the inaugural Enterprise IT Week at cdXpo >>> Conference here. "We have enough sorted out, but we are so focused on >>> the [IBM litigation]. With our limited energies and what our guys are >>> going through, we probably won't file any suits against BSD until >>> sometime in the first half of next year." >> >> Um ... who is BSD? *scratch head* Or do they intend to sue Berkeley >> themselves? > > Clearly, if they are referring to the settlement, they would > have to go after the people with whom they settled, or their > assigns. That would be BSDI (now Wind River Systems) and the > Regents of the University of California, Berkeley. > Windriver no longer sells BSD/OS, they EOL'd it. --Larry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 22 15:03:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1891E16A4CE; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 15:03:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.uninterruptible.net (mail.uninterruptible.net [64.146.146.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA97843FB1; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 15:03:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@catonic.net) Received: from Spaz.Catonic.NET (tnt6-216-180-4-6.dialup.hiwaay.net [216.180.4.6]) by mail.uninterruptible.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBD4450013; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:03:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: by Spaz.Catonic.NET (Postfix, from userid 1002) id BCE71336A; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:03:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Spaz.Catonic.NET (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7B3B4C6C; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:03:04 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:03:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Kris Kirby To: Kris Kennaway In-Reply-To: <20031120072423.GA80697@xor.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: X-Mailer: !/bin/sh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Minnesota Slinky cc: chat@FreeBSD.org cc: 'SWIT' cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO going after BSD??? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:03:16 -0000 On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Kris Kennaway wrote: > There's no possible sense in which this can be true. Plain text > attachments do not create a security or virus risk. Give Microsoft some time.... -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR TGIFreeBSD IM: 'KrisBSD' "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!" This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 22 17:38:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7E416A4CE for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:38:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp09.wxs.nl (smtp09.wxs.nl [195.121.6.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B2C43F75 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:38:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akruijff@www.kruijff.org) Received: from kruij557.speed.planet.nl (ipd50a97ba.speed.planet.nl [213.10.151.186]) by smtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HOS00CA173ROT@smtp09.wxs.nl> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:35:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from Alex.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kruij557.speed.planet.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAN1c6Yj007274; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:38:06 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff@Alex.lan) Received: (from akruijff@localhost) by Alex.lan (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id hAN1c5GU007273; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:38:05 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:38:05 +0100 From: Alex de Kruijff In-reply-to: <20031119133124.A3269@d66-183-123-52.bchsia.telus.net> To: Viktor Lazlo Message-id: <20031123013805.GC532@dds.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <99E31C70-1AD6-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> <20031119133124.A3269@d66-183-123-52.bchsia.telus.net> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 01:38:04 -0000 On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 01:51:08PM -0800, Viktor Lazlo wrote: > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Lawrence Sica wrote: > > On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:33 PM, Chip McClure wrote: > > > Anyone happen to have a look at Slashdot recently? Happen to wander > > > across > > > an article on the next round of lawsuits, targetting the BSD community. > > > > > > IMO, SCO's grabbing at straws, and they're sinking fast. > > > > > > http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml? > > > tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 > > > > > > > > I'm no lawyer, but I don't see how much hope SCO has. The lawsuit was > > settled and alll... > > Settled out of court though, which means there was no legal resolution, > giving them some potential, although unlikely, room for leverage. > The only leverage they got is going to cord and claim something about the agreement was not allowed by law. Even if they did they proberbly stil are not able to undo it. -- Alex Articles based on solutions that I use: http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 22 17:55:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 487F816A4CE for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:55:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp11.wxs.nl (smtp11.wxs.nl [195.121.6.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DBE043F93 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:55:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akruijff@www.kruijff.org) Received: from kruij557.speed.planet.nl (ipd50a97ba.speed.planet.nl [213.10.151.186]) by smtp11.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HOS000RK7QN9M@smtp11.wxs.nl> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:49:36 +0100 (MET) Received: from Alex.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kruij557.speed.planet.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAN1nPYj007333; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:49:25 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff@Alex.lan) Received: (from akruijff@localhost) by Alex.lan (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id hAN1nN2R007332; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:49:23 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:49:23 +0100 From: Alex de Kruijff In-reply-to: <3FBCBE7D.DA14199@mindspring.com> To: Terry Lambert Message-id: <20031123014923.GD532@dds.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i References: <23740.216.195.235.103.1069277586.squirrel@webmail.gigguardian.com> <3FBCBE7D.DA14199@mindspring.com> cc: Chip McClure cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCO Lawsuits, round 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 01:55:44 -0000 On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 05:15:41AM -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: > "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: > > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Ceri Davies wrote: > > > "I agree that the more yarn you pull out the more you see," McBride said > > > during a press briefing at the inaugural Enterprise IT Week at cdXpo > > > Conference here. "We have enough sorted out, but we are so focused on > > > the [IBM litigation]. With our limited energies and what our guys are > > > going through, we probably won't file any suits against BSD until > > > sometime in the first half of next year." > > > > Um ... who is BSD? *scratch head* Or do they intend to sue Berkeley > > themselves? > > Clearly, if they are referring to the settlement, they would > have to go after the people with whom they settled, or their > assigns. That would be BSDI (now Wind River Systems) and the I would like to add that BSDI convinced the judge that AT&T had to go to Berkley since they had released the code. They where happy to talk about the six files they added. The settlement is betwain Bekley and SCO. As Greg wrote, the settlement include a clause that stated that they wouldn't sue. If SCO sues any of the BSD based system then there in violation. -- Alex Articles based on solutions that I use: http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 22 17:58:18 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E9D16A4CF; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp08.wxs.nl (smtp08.wxs.nl [195.121.6.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A4843FBF; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:58:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akruijff@www.kruijff.org) Received: from kruij557.speed.planet.nl (ipd50a97ba.speed.planet.nl [213.10.151.186]) by smtp08.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HOS007F882H8M@smtp08.wxs.nl>; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:56:41 +0100 (MET) Received: from Alex.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kruij557.speed.planet.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAN1wKYj007401; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:58:20 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff@Alex.lan) Received: (from akruijff@localhost) by Alex.lan (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id hAN1wJod007400; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:58:19 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 02:58:19 +0100 From: Alex de Kruijff In-reply-to: <20031102022843.GB3275@adelaide.lemis.com> To: Greg Lehey Message-id: <20031123015819.GE532@dds.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i References: <20031031190847.GA13529@online.fr> <3FA423B7.D4F10C29@mindspring.com> <20031102022843.GB3275@adelaide.lemis.com> cc: Rahul Siddharthan cc: "Bruce A. Mah" cc: Bill Moran cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: How do hackers drive? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 01:58:18 -0000 On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 10:28:43AM +0800, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Saturday, 1 November 2003 at 13:20:55 -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > >> I do plan out my trips, including short walks to the water fountain. > >> But I probably don't calculate in detail: I tend to take the nearest > >> turn each way, so in a situation like this > >> > >> --------W-- > >> | | > >> | | > >> | | > >> --O-------- > >> > >> to go from office (O) to water (W) and back, I do a clockwise circuit > >> rather than judge which route is shorter and retrace the same route > >> back > > > > That's totally insane!!!! > > > > How do you retract the invisible string that you leave behind > > you everywhere you go, if you don't use an exact reverse route?!?! > > > > You do know you have a limited supply of invisible string on a > > spool inside of you, and once you run out of string, you simply > > fall over dead, apparently of natural causes, right??? > > Never heard of garbage collection? And if that is dead then init, the guy with the hook, comes afther you. -- Alex Articles based on solutions that I use: http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 22 19:47:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E145616A4CE for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:47:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp11.wxs.nl (smtp11.wxs.nl [195.121.6.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7479E43FD7 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:47:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akruijff@www.kruijff.org) Received: from kruij557.speed.planet.nl (ipd50a97ba.speed.planet.nl [213.10.151.186])18chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 04:38:12 +0100 (MET) Received: from Alex.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kruij557.speed.planet.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAN3c0Yj007851; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 04:38:00 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff@Alex.lan) Received: (from akruijff@localhost) by Alex.lan (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id hAN3c0QD007850; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 04:38:00 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 04:37:59 +0100 From: Alex de Kruijff In-reply-to: To: Brad Knowles Message-id: <20031123033759.GF532@dds.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i References: <20031104192215.GA848@online.fr> <3FA7FEA7.80205@potentialtech.com> <20031104201324.GA2654@online.fr> <20031108041538.GA806@online.fr> cc: Rahul Siddharthan cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How do hackers drive? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 03:47:14 -0000 On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 05:45:47PM +0100, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 11:15 PM -0500 2003/11/07, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > As I said, if you're planning to spend some time there you'd want to > > learn the language. Just as anyone wanting to spend time in America > > should know English. > > I was trying to emphasize the point that, even if you are told > you do not need to learn the language, you should do so anyway -- for > social reasons, if not practical ones. Now also because of political reason. Everyone needs to be integraded (fit in) in to the population. This not only means you have to learn Dutch. It also means you have to take part in local activities, like celibrating 'Sinterklaas', which is the holy person for the sailors. This includes standing in a harbor when he arives on a boat from Spain early novemeber, when its freezing and poring down on you. Sinterklaas, also known as 'de Sint' (de meand the and Sint is short for Sinterklaas) wares a mantle and a mitre, much like the pope does, only its in read. He has many helpers with called 'Piet' (a groep of them is called 'Pieten' and have total black skin, which are even more black than a negro is. These will give you special candy like 'pepernote', 'taai-taai' and 'marsepijn'. On 5 december you have to set you shoe near a fire place before you go to sleep. This have to be filled with carrots for his horse. You also have to sing a special song for Sinterklaas before you go to bed. One of his 'Pieten' are listening to this. I be happy to send you lyrics of one of two real easy songs. Depending on all of this one of three things happens. The first is that you have done it all good enove and you get some more candy in your shoe. The second is that you get a 'roe' (a buch of thin wooden sticks about 20 inch long). This is a left over of a old tradition where Sinterklaas would spank you with it. Today this serves as a mild warning. If you have done a realy terrible job, then one of his Pieten will come the next day and you go in a cotton sack on the boat to Spain. Bleave me you don't want that! Its expected that you sing 'Dag sinterklaasje' the next day in the harbor to say fairwell. > Frankly, in terms of day-to-day "getting things done" in the > Netherlands, I found that everyone I encountered throughout > Amsterdam, Utrecht, Waardenburg, and all the other towns and cities I > went to/through, spoke enough English that I could get by -- everyone > from gas station attendants to check out clerks at supermarkets and > hardware stores, etc.... This is due to the school. The englisch classes start when you are about then and continue until you at least sixteen. Those who have a high base of education still have to one or two more years. Those who then continue to earn a title also have antoher couple of years of englisch class. The TV also help. A lot is in Englisch and these are not spoken of but subtited. > There are few conversation-stoppers worse than "I'm sorry, I > don't speak your language -- can you speak mine?" So, you miss out > on all the hallway chat, the elevator chat, the smoke-room chat, and > all those little social encounters that can end up making your life > wonderful or miserable, and can seriously shorten or lengthen your > stay at that employer. The smoke-room chat is going to be banned by potitics starting 2004. -- Alex Articles based on solutions that I use: http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 22 19:55:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E99616A4CF for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:55:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp06.wxs.nl (smtp06.wxs.nl [195.121.6.58]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD9E943FBF for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:55:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akruijff@www.kruijff.org) Received: from kruij557.speed.planet.nl (ipd50a97ba.speed.planet.nl [213.10.151.186])18chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 04:52:11 +0100 (MET) Received: from Alex.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kruij557.speed.planet.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAN3tAYj007946; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 04:55:10 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff@Alex.lan) Received: (from akruijff@localhost) by Alex.lan (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id hAN3t9kp007945; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 04:55:09 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 04:55:09 +0100 From: Alex de Kruijff In-reply-to: <3FA8EFA1.7020507@potentialtech.com> To: Bill Moran Message-id: <20031123035509.GG532@dds.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i References: <20031104192215.GA848@online.fr> <3FA8382F.50204@potentialtech.com> <3FA8EFA1.7020507@potentialtech.com> cc: Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How do hackers drive? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 03:55:06 -0000 On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 07:40:01AM -0500, Bill Moran wrote: > Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > >Bill Moran writes: > > > >>Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > >> > >>>Bicycle-friendly, but lethal for pedestrians. Dutch cyclists treat > >>>pedestrians with the same contempt as drivers to cyclists in most > >>>other countries... > >> > >>Are you serious? That doesn't sound possible [...] I would > >>think there is a certain amount of self-preservation that prevents > >>cyclists from colliding with pedestrians. > > > >That doesn't mean they *respect* pedestrians. They generally treat > >pedestrians like vermin invading their right-of-way (at least that's > >what it felt like in Delft, though Amsterdam - or the parts of > >Amsterdam I've been in - isn't nearly as bad) Most of the time thing aren't so bad. > Well, that I can understand. It follow what I said about many cyclists > not obeying the rules of the road. Professional cyclists Whats a professional cyclist? Here every one has at least one bike. Children as young as 6 ride then. And by the time there 12 there riding one there own to a school in a neerby city. > I guess the general rule might be that the fast generally disrespect > the slower. The same is true for heavy vs ligth. In the Netherlands it now a rule that when a car comes in to a collision with a biker, the driver of the car is wrong unleass there is proof otherwise. The number of collision has gone drasticaly down since then. -- Alex Articles based on solutions that I use: http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 22 20:45:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD5E716A4CE for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:45:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (user-0cdfenm.cable.mindspring.com [24.215.186.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B33843FE0 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:45:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: (qmail 788 invoked by uid 1002); 23 Nov 2003 04:45:17 -0000 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:45:16 -0500 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Alex de Kruijff Message-ID: <20031123044516.GA734@online.fr> References: <20031104192215.GA848@online.fr> <3FA7FEA7.80205@potentialtech.com> <20031104201324.GA2654@online.fr> <20031108041538.GA806@online.fr> <20031123033759.GF532@dds.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031123033759.GF532@dds.nl> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20 i686 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: Brad Knowles cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How do hackers drive? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 04:45:19 -0000 Alex de Kruijff said on Nov 23, 2003 at 04:37:59: > Now also because of political reason. Everyone needs to be integraded > (fit in) in to the population. This not only means you have to learn > Dutch. It also means you have to take part in local activities, like > celibrating 'Sinterklaas', which is the holy person for the sailors. > This includes standing in a harbor when he arives on a boat from Spain > early novemeber, when its freezing and poring down on you. I doubt they can force you to take part, but I'm sure Americans would find it quite amusing, Sinterklaas is quite similar (in role and in costume) to Santa Claus if I remember right. > The smoke-room chat is going to be banned by potitics starting 2004. I presume you mean the smoke will be banned, not the room or the chat, and by health regulations not by politics. It's about time. R