From owner-freebsd-fs Sun Mar 23 18:34:58 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A8A37B401; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 18:34:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D50643F3F; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 18:34:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id h2O2YqjK003698; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 21:34:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 21:34:51 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Yar Tikhiy Cc: ppc@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available In-Reply-To: <20030322151656.GA34184@comp.chem.msu.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Yar Tikhiy wrote: > I'm glad to offer to the community an HFS and HFS Plus filesystem module > and tools, ported from Darwin to FreeBSD 5. Of course, it's a rather > early version that deserves thorough testing. > > Please see http://people.freebsd.org/~yar/hfs/ for details. > > I'm looking forward for your feedback. Very, very cool. I hope to try this sometime in the next couple of days. So correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming journalling is working properly in your port, this is the first complete open source journalled file system available for FreeBSD. :-) Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 24 1:21:41 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6036337B407 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 01:21:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from customer.ecore.net (enterprise.ecore.net [212.223.99.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0665A43FAF for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 01:21:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cs@cheasy.de) Received: (qmail 2177 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2003 09:21:31 -0000 Received: from p50840332.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO cheasy.de) (80.132.3.50) by cheasy.de with SMTP; 24 Mar 2003 09:21:31 -0000 Message-ID: <3E7ECE1C.2000605@cheasy.de> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:21:32 +0100 From: Christoph Sold User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: de, de-de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson Cc: Yar Tikhiy , ppc@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-30.7 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_NJABL,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_NJABL_DIALUP version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Robert Watson wrote: > On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Yar Tikhiy wrote: > > >>I'm glad to offer to the community an HFS and HFS Plus filesystem module >>and tools, ported from Darwin to FreeBSD 5. Of course, it's a rather >>early version that deserves thorough testing. >> >>Please see http://people.freebsd.org/~yar/hfs/ for details. >> >>I'm looking forward for your feedback. > > > Very, very cool. I hope to try this sometime in the next couple of days. > So correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming journalling is working properly > in your port, this is the first complete open source journalled file > system available for FreeBSD. :-) Neither HFS nor HFS+ are journaled file systems. Have a look at http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/mac/Files/Files-99.html or http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1150.html to read through the specs. (URLs shamelessly grabbed from the page mentioned above :*) HTH -Christoph Sold To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 24 4: 6:13 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD10037B401; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 04:06:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp-ext.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.157]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81EEA43F85; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 04:06:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2OC55gO058309; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:05:25 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h2OC54dv058298; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:05:04 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:05:04 +0300 From: Yar Tikhiy To: Christoph Sold Cc: Robert Watson , ppc@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available Message-ID: <20030324120504.GC56331@comp.chem.msu.su> References: <3E7ECE1C.2000605@cheasy.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3E7ECE1C.2000605@cheasy.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-32.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 10:21:32AM +0100, Christoph Sold wrote: > Robert Watson wrote: > >On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Yar Tikhiy wrote: > > > > > >>I'm glad to offer to the community an HFS and HFS Plus filesystem module > >>and tools, ported from Darwin to FreeBSD 5. Of course, it's a rather > >>early version that deserves thorough testing. > >> > >>Please see http://people.freebsd.org/~yar/hfs/ for details. > >> > >>I'm looking forward for your feedback. > > > > > >Very, very cool. I hope to try this sometime in the next couple of days. > >So correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming journalling is working properly > >in your port, this is the first complete open source journalled file > >system available for FreeBSD. :-) > > Neither HFS nor HFS+ are journaled file systems. Have a look at > http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/mac/Files/Files-99.html > or > http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1150.html > to read through the specs. (URLs shamelessly grabbed from the page > mentioned above :*) Christoph and Robert, I'm sorry to have to disappoint both of you ;-( Christoph: Apple has indeed introduced an extention to HFS Plus to make a journaled FS out of the latter. Robert: Unfortunately, the journaling feature seems tangled with the Darwin-specific unified buffer cache, and I haven't attepted to untangle it yet. However, that is on my to-do list. -- Yar To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 24 7:55:29 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3926537B401; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 07:55:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp-ext.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.157]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01A243FBF; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 07:55:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2OFskgO069329; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 18:55:17 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h2OFskuI069328; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 18:54:46 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 18:54:45 +0300 From: Yar Tikhiy To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Cc: ppc@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available Message-ID: <20030324155445.GA67925@comp.chem.msu.su> References: <20030322151656.GA34184@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030322211504.X8716@sasami.jurai.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030322211504.X8716@sasami.jurai.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-32.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Mar 22, 2003 at 09:17:45PM -0500, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Sat, 22 Mar 2003, Yar Tikhiy wrote: > > I'm glad to offer to the community an HFS and HFS Plus filesystem > > module and tools, ported from Darwin to FreeBSD 5. Of course, it's > > a rather early version that deserves thorough testing. > > > > Please see http://people.freebsd.org/~yar/hfs/ for details. > > > > I'm looking forward for your feedback. > > It appears to work. I'm really glad to hear that. > Is there any chance you can use separate out the mask into file and > directory modes (like mount_smbfs(8))? Nice idea! I've put it on the to-do list, but the job will take some time because it requires fiddling with the kernel driver, which doesn't support the separate masks yet. OTOH, I must take a close look to the relevant parts of the driver anyway to make the mask option work in the case of HFS Plus. > Good job, and thanks btw! Don't mention it; I was paid for it, after all :-) -- Yar To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 24 8:53:45 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42E7F37B401; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 08:53:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96E643FBD; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 08:53:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from drweb by mail.nsu.ru with drweb-scanned (Exim 3.20 #1) id 18xVCZ-0005XN-00; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:53:35 +0600 Received: from iclub.nsu.ru ([193.124.215.97] ident=root) by mail.nsu.ru with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 18xVCX-0005Wl-00; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:53:34 +0600 Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (fjoe@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2OGrMj1096947; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:53:22 +0600 (NS) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: (from fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2OGrLC7096946; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:53:21 +0600 (NS) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 22:53:21 +0600 From: Max Khon To: Yar Tikhiy Cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , ppc@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available Message-ID: <20030324225320.B96310@iclub.nsu.ru> References: <20030322151656.GA34184@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030322211504.X8716@sasami.jurai.net> <20030324155445.GA67925@comp.chem.msu.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20030324155445.GA67925@comp.chem.msu.su>; from yar@freebsd.org on Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 06:54:45PM +0300 X-Envelope-To: yar@freebsd.org, mdodd@freebsd.org, ppc@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-30.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, QUOTE_TWICE_1,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, there! On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 06:54:45PM +0300, Yar Tikhiy wrote: > > Is there any chance you can use separate out the mask into file and > > directory modes (like mount_smbfs(8))? > > Nice idea! I've put it on the to-do list, but the job will take > some time because it requires fiddling with the kernel driver, > which doesn't support the separate masks yet. OTOH, I must > take a close look to the relevant parts of the driver anyway to > make the mask option work in the case of HFS Plus. Are HFS/HFS+ case insensitive but case preserving file systems? It would be nice to have an option for case-sensitive mode. /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 24 10:14:53 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2F8537B401; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:14:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp-ext.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.157]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1060343F93; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:14:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2OIEmgO077068; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:14:48 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h2OIEl5h077067; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:14:47 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:14:47 +0300 From: Yar Tikhiy To: Max Khon Cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , ppc@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available Message-ID: <20030324181446.GB74771@comp.chem.msu.su> References: <20030322151656.GA34184@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030322211504.X8716@sasami.jurai.net> <20030324155445.GA67925@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030324225320.B96310@iclub.nsu.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030324225320.B96310@iclub.nsu.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-32.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 10:53:21PM +0600, Max Khon wrote: > > Are HFS/HFS+ case insensitive but case preserving file systems? Exactly. > It would be nice to have an option for case-sensitive mode. Added to the to-do list. I think Apple might be interested in merging this and the previous suggested changes to Darwin after I ( or we :-) ) implement them. -- Yar To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 24 10:21:51 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F5937B401; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:21:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [66.92.160.223]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E077343F93; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:21:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [66.92.160.223]) by sasami.jurai.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2OILlCi044582; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:21:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:21:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Yar Tikhiy Cc: Max Khon , ppc@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available In-Reply-To: <20030324181446.GB74771@comp.chem.msu.su> Message-ID: <20030324131809.E39864@sasami.jurai.net> References: <20030322151656.GA34184@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030322211504.X8716@sasami.jurai.net> <20030324155445.GA67925@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030324225320.B96310@iclub.nsu.ru> <20030324181446.GB74771@comp.chem.msu.su> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-26.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Yar Tikhiy wrote: > Added to the to-do list. I think Apple might be interested in > merging this and the previous suggested changes to Darwin after > I ( or we :-) ) implement them. When do you anticipate this code being ready for -CURRENT? Have you had a chance to run 'fsx' (src/tools/regression/fsx)? -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | For Great Justice! | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 24 10:25:38 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C72637B401; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:25:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB82C43F93; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:25:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from drweb by mail.nsu.ru with drweb-scanned (Exim 3.20 #1) id 18xWdU-0006lG-00; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 00:25:28 +0600 Received: from iclub.nsu.ru ([193.124.215.97] ident=root) by mail.nsu.ru with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 18xWdT-0006kX-00; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 00:25:27 +0600 Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (fjoe@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2OIPJj1099483; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 00:25:20 +0600 (NS) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: (from fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2OIPJ85099482; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 00:25:19 +0600 (NS) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 00:25:19 +0600 From: Max Khon To: Yar Tikhiy Cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , ppc@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available Message-ID: <20030325002518.A99250@iclub.nsu.ru> References: <20030322151656.GA34184@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030322211504.X8716@sasami.jurai.net> <20030324155445.GA67925@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030324225320.B96310@iclub.nsu.ru> <20030324181446.GB74771@comp.chem.msu.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20030324181446.GB74771@comp.chem.msu.su>; from yar@freebsd.org on Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 09:14:47PM +0300 X-Envelope-To: yar@freebsd.org, mdodd@freebsd.org, ppc@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-31.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, QUOTE_TWICE_1,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, there! On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 09:14:47PM +0300, Yar Tikhiy wrote: > > Are HFS/HFS+ case insensitive but case preserving file systems? > > Exactly. > > > It would be nice to have an option for case-sensitive mode. > > Added to the to-do list. I think Apple might be interested in > merging this and the previous suggested changes to Darwin after > I ( or we :-) ) implement them. Great! I wonder how high journalling is in your TODO list /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 24 17:10:48 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690DD37B401; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:10:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE36A43F75; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:10:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mday@apple.com) Received: from mailgate2.apple.com (A17-129-100-225.apple.com [17.129.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2P1AiOr022359; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:10:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv2.apple.com (scv2.apple.com) by mailgate2.apple.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.1) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:10:43 -0800 Received: from apple.com (daylight.apple.com [17.202.44.244]) by scv2.apple.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h2P1AhH08110; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:10:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:10:11 -0800 Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: Yar Tikhiy , "Matthew N. Dodd" , ppc@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG To: Max Khon From: Mark Day In-Reply-To: <20030324225320.B96310@iclub.nsu.ru> Message-Id: <86E4FD83-5E5E-11D7-B20F-00039354009A@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-11.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, March 24, 2003, at 08:53 AM, Max Khon wrote: > It would be nice to have an option for case-sensitive mode. What do you mean by a case-sensitive mode? If you mean allowing two files in the same directory whose names differ only in case, then you're talking about an incompatible change in the volume format. Directory entries are stored in a B-tree, sorted in part on the case-insensitive name. If you make the names in the B-tree keys case sensitive, your sort order will be different, and you'll be incompatible with existing HFS or HFS Plus volumes. If you want to experiment with this, I strongly suggest using a different signature word. Or do you mean that the on-disk structures would continue to use case-insensitive names, but that lookups would only match in a case-sensitive way (that is, do a case-insensitive lookup in the B-tree, then verify that the name is a case-sensitive match for what you looked up)? -Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Mon Mar 24 21:42:52 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FD5437B401; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:42:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nsu.ru (mx.nsu.ru [193.124.215.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6DBC43F75; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:42:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from drweb by mail.nsu.ru with drweb-scanned (Exim 3.20 #1) id 18xhCd-0004cx-00; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:42:27 +0600 Received: from iclub.nsu.ru ([193.124.215.97] ident=root) by mail.nsu.ru with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 18xhCZ-0004Zy-00; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:42:24 +0600 Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (fjoe@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2P5g1j1018725; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:42:01 +0600 (NS) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: (from fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2P5fxjZ018724; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:41:59 +0600 (NS) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:41:59 +0600 From: Max Khon To: Mark Day Cc: Yar Tikhiy , "Matthew N. Dodd" , ppc@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available Message-ID: <20030325114159.A18471@iclub.nsu.ru> References: <20030324225320.B96310@iclub.nsu.ru> <86E4FD83-5E5E-11D7-B20F-00039354009A@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <86E4FD83-5E5E-11D7-B20F-00039354009A@apple.com>; from mday@apple.com on Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 05:10:11PM -0800 X-Envelope-To: mday@apple.com, yar@FreeBSD.ORG, mdodd@FreeBSD.ORG, ppc@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-31.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, QUOTE_TWICE_1,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi, there! On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 05:10:11PM -0800, Mark Day wrote: > > It would be nice to have an option for case-sensitive mode. > > What do you mean by a case-sensitive mode? > > If you mean allowing two files in the same directory whose names differ > only in case, then you're talking about an incompatible change in the > volume format. yes. > Directory entries are stored in a B-tree, sorted in > part on the case-insensitive name. If you make the names in the B-tree > keys case sensitive, your sort order will be different, and you'll be > incompatible with existing HFS or HFS Plus volumes. If you want to > experiment with this, I strongly suggest using a different signature > word. It can be newfs-time option. Case-sensitive HFS+ volumes can have different signature in MBR (or whatever partitioning scheme is used on that hardware platform). There is a plenty of variants. I think case-sensitive mode is needed if we want to consider HFS+ as a viable replacement (think about journalling and Unicode) for UFS/UFS2. /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 25 3:49: 9 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCE7137B401; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 03:49:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp-ext.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.157]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15C943F3F; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 03:49:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2PBmSgO027503; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 14:48:33 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h2PBmOr7027502; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 14:48:24 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 14:48:24 +0300 From: Yar Tikhiy To: Max Khon Cc: Mark Day , "Matthew N. Dodd" , ppc@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available Message-ID: <20030325114824.GD26415@comp.chem.msu.su> References: <20030324225320.B96310@iclub.nsu.ru> <86E4FD83-5E5E-11D7-B20F-00039354009A@apple.com> <20030325114159.A18471@iclub.nsu.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030325114159.A18471@iclub.nsu.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-32.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 11:41:59AM +0600, Max Khon wrote: > > > Directory entries are stored in a B-tree, sorted in > > part on the case-insensitive name. If you make the names in the B-tree > > keys case sensitive, your sort order will be different, and you'll be > > incompatible with existing HFS or HFS Plus volumes. If you want to > > experiment with this, I strongly suggest using a different signature > > word. > > It can be newfs-time option. > Case-sensitive HFS+ volumes can have different signature in MBR (or whatever > partitioning scheme is used on that hardware platform). > There is a plenty of variants. BTW, correct me if I'm wrong, but a new signature (HFS has it at the first two bytes of its volume header) and a change to the function for comparing two Unicode keys (so it will compare them respecting case) is all that is needed to make a case-sensitive variant of HFS. Of course, the utilities (fsck_hfs in particular) should be changed, too. -- Yar To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 25 4:39:54 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A519737B401; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 04:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B8443FDF; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 04:39:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0001.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.1] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18xniR-0004Vf-00; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 04:39:44 -0800 Message-ID: <3E804D08.2F270EDB@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 04:35:20 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yar Tikhiy Cc: Max Khon , Mark Day , "Matthew N. Dodd" , ppc@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available References: <20030324225320.B96310@iclub.nsu.ru> <86E4FD83-5E5E-11D7-B20F-00039354009A@apple.com> <20030325114159.A18471@iclub.nsu.ru> <20030325114824.GD26415@comp.chem.msu.su> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a439893b64f2ea2eff64997924841a82aba8438e0f32a48e08350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-21.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yar Tikhiy wrote: > On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 11:41:59AM +0600, Max Khon wrote: > > > Directory entries are stored in a B-tree, sorted in > > > part on the case-insensitive name. If you make the names in the B-tree > > > keys case sensitive, your sort order will be different, and you'll be > > > incompatible with existing HFS or HFS Plus volumes. If you want to > > > experiment with this, I strongly suggest using a different signature > > > word. > > > > It can be newfs-time option. > > Case-sensitive HFS+ volumes can have different signature in MBR (or whatever > > partitioning scheme is used on that hardware platform). > > There is a plenty of variants. > > BTW, correct me if I'm wrong, but a new signature (HFS has it at > the first two bytes of its volume header) and a change to the > function for comparing two Unicode keys (so it will compare them > respecting case) is all that is needed to make a case-sensitive > variant of HFS. Of course, the utilities (fsck_hfs in particular) > should be changed, too. Case sensitive on storage, case insensitive on lookup only works if the lookup happens with knowledge of the case insensitivity. I rather expect that HFS/HFS+ does it's globbing in the kernel, too, unless it depends on iteration. So that would be another difference, as well. I guess the alternative to that would be to iterate everything, and apply the case insensitivity algorithm in the shell, too, but that would probably be error-prone. From my own memory of HFS usage on MacOS, the globbing is in the kernel. BTW: The NTFS/FAT32 has this same feature under Windows, at least as far as that goes, e.g.: C:\>cd "Program FILES" C:\Program Files> So technically, it should probably be handed the same way for those two FS's. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 25 4:58: 8 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6125737B401; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 04:58:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp-ext.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.157]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E4243FA3; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 04:57:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2PCuPgO031016; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:57:48 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h2PCuLFs031010; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:56:21 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:56:21 +0300 From: Yar Tikhiy To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Cc: Max Khon , ppc@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available Message-ID: <20030325125620.GD27905@comp.chem.msu.su> References: <20030322151656.GA34184@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030322211504.X8716@sasami.jurai.net> <20030324155445.GA67925@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030324225320.B96310@iclub.nsu.ru> <20030324181446.GB74771@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030324131809.E39864@sasami.jurai.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030324131809.E39864@sasami.jurai.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-32.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 01:21:46PM -0500, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > When do you anticipate this code being ready for -CURRENT? Since introducing a new file system won't disrupt any existing functionality, this code will be committed to -CURRENT as soon as we reach an agreement with Apple on the licensing issue. Although APSL allows us to use this code today, it would be better if Apple moved it to the BSD license; and there is hope it's possible. > Have you had a chance to run 'fsx' (src/tools/regression/fsx)? I've had 'fsx' and then 'fsstress' running on an HFS Plus volume for an hour without a problem and was going to try that on plain HFS, but then some other issues distracted my attention. It might be fruitful if people ran those test tools in various configurations of HFS. -- Yar To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 25 5:24:20 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A81C37B401; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 05:24:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp-ext.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.157]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69A2D43FB1; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 05:24:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h2PDO9gO032574; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:24:09 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id h2PDO9IA032573; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:24:09 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:24:08 +0300 From: Yar Tikhiy To: Max Khon Cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , ppc@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available Message-ID: <20030325132408.GI27905@comp.chem.msu.su> References: <20030322151656.GA34184@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030322211504.X8716@sasami.jurai.net> <20030324155445.GA67925@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030324225320.B96310@iclub.nsu.ru> <20030324181446.GB74771@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030325002518.A99250@iclub.nsu.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030325002518.A99250@iclub.nsu.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-30.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 12:25:19AM +0600, Max Khon wrote: > > Great! I wonder how high journalling is in your TODO list I'm going to determine that from the community's feedback ;-) -- Yar To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 25 5:31:42 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA7B037B401; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 05:31:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from geekpunk.net (adsl-32-212-96.bna.bellsouth.net [67.32.212.96]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D8543F75; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 05:31:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bandix@geekpunk.net) Received: from localhost.my.domain (taran [127.0.0.1]) by geekpunk.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h2PDViad048283; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 07:31:44 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from bandix@geekpunk.net) Received: (from bandix@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id h2PDVgT8048282; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 07:31:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from bandix) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 07:31:42 -0600 From: "Brandon D. Valentine" To: Yar Tikhiy Cc: Max Khon , "Matthew N. Dodd" , ppc@freebsd.org, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available Message-ID: <20030325133142.GD41045@geekpunk.net> References: <20030322151656.GA34184@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030322211504.X8716@sasami.jurai.net> <20030324155445.GA67925@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030324225320.B96310@iclub.nsu.ru> <20030324181446.GB74771@comp.chem.msu.su> <20030325002518.A99250@iclub.nsu.ru> <20030325132408.GI27905@comp.chem.msu.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030325132408.GI27905@comp.chem.msu.su> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-32.5 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 04:24:08PM +0300, Yar Tikhiy wrote: > On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 12:25:19AM +0600, Max Khon wrote: > > > > Great! I wonder how high journalling is in your TODO list > > I'm going to determine that from the community's feedback ;-) In that case: yes yes YES! If you were to priortize your TODO list by sheer volume of mailing list traffic on a given subject I don't see how journalling could not have already won, given the voluminous discourse about various journalling filesystems on -fs and -hackers, -chat, etc over the past couple of years. =) Brandon D. Valentine -- brandon@dvalentine.com http://www.geekpunk.net Pseudo-Random Googlism: valentine is s'posed to bring a warm and fuzzy feeling a valentine is s'posed to make your brain begin a'reeling a valentine is heavenly a To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Tue Mar 25 8:53:54 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9522237B401; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:53:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA6D043F85; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:53:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mday@apple.com) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h2PGrksJ017832; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:53:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv1.apple.com (scv1.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.1) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:53:39 -0800 Received: from apple.com (daylight.apple.com [17.202.44.244]) by scv1.apple.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h2PGrjt18761; Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:53:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:53:12 -0800 Subject: Re: HFS/HFS Plus driver and tools for 5.x are available Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Cc: Max Khon , "Matthew N. Dodd" , ppc@FreeBSD.ORG, fs@FreeBSD.ORG To: Yar Tikhiy From: Mark Day In-Reply-To: <20030325114824.GD26415@comp.chem.msu.su> Message-Id: <439F1CD2-5EE2-11D7-9FEF-00039354009A@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-16.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 03:48 AM, Yar Tikhiy wrote: > BTW, correct me if I'm wrong, but a new signature (HFS has it at > the first two bytes of its volume header) and a change to the > function for comparing two Unicode keys (so it will compare them > respecting case) is all that is needed to make a case-sensitive > variant of HFS. Of course, the utilities (fsck_hfs in particular) > should be changed, too. You'll also want to change the code that deals with the name cache. For case insensitivity, it does some wacky things. If I remember right, it actually stores in the name cache all of the case variants you actually passed into the kernel. That is, if you did a lookup on both "a" and "A", then both of those will be in the name cache, referring to the same file. When you move or rename, I think it ends up invalidating every entry for the directory, instead of the single name. You could get by with the current behavior, but you can get better performance if you made the name caching code work like UFS and the rest. -Mark To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 26 0:49:54 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8239837B407 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2003 00:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-2.zoominternet.net (mail-2.zoominternet.net [63.67.120.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 176B543F3F for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2003 00:49:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmmiller@cvzoom.net) Received: (qmail 22432 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2003 08:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cvzoom.net) ([24.239.216.131]) (envelope-sender ) by mail-2.zoominternet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 Mar 2003 08:49:47 -0000 Message-ID: <3E8169A3.7090309@cvzoom.net> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 03:49:39 -0500 From: Donn Miller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Schultz Cc: fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is there no JFS? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-14.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Schultz wrote: > Thus spake Daxbert : >>If a JFS were to be ported and/or developed for FreeBSD >>what should it be based on? XFS, JFS, ReiserFS??? > > > It would be easier to add journalling to FFS than to port one of > the above filesystems, and the licensing would be problematic. It > is less problematic for ReiserFS because Hans Reiser is willing to > make exceptions to the GPL as long as e.g. Apple can't build OS X > on top of FreeBSD and thereby get ReiserFS without sharing the > profits with him. But you still have to find someone for whom > softupdates isn't good enough who is willing to do the work. Yes, that is true. But it's good to have various filesystems to choose from. I personally like UFS+ softupdates, because it's one filesystem that works very well. So, you're not left agonizing over which filesystem to use. Plus IMHO it greatly simplifies maintenance if there's only one filesystem, because all the effort is in maintaining that one particular filesystem, and not 3 or more others. Plus, problem reports would increase with an increase in filesystems. If other journalled filesystems were ported to FreeBSD, wouldn't that pose a maintenance headache? That would be one or more additional filesystems to maintain in addition to UFS+Softupdates. There's the potential for those additional filesystems to bitrot over time if they're neglected, much like what happened to LFS. On the positive side, journalling filesystems seem to be very hot and whatnot these days, and people are more likely to try FreeBSD if they hear it has the choice of some journalling filesystems. I personally think LFS would be the best choice as an alternative to UFS, but I haven't really looked into the technical aspects of LFS yet. And what about ReiserFS? The maintainer of that filesystem, assuming it were eventually ported to FreeBSD, would have to follow the ReiserFS development very closely for changes. All of the ReiserFS team are presently Linux kernel hackers, and probably don't know anything about FreeBSD kernel internals. Therefore, it could be difficult to track changes with the Reiser core team. And would the Reiser core team be willing to incorporate changes from a minority (FreeBSD) team? Those are the things to consider before even trying to port ReiserFS. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 26 0:52:45 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8239837B407 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2003 00:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-2.zoominternet.net (mail-2.zoominternet.net [63.67.120.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 176B543F3F for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2003 00:49:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmmiller@cvzoom.net) Received: (qmail 22432 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2003 08:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cvzoom.net) ([24.239.216.131]) (envelope-sender ) by mail-2.zoominternet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 Mar 2003 08:49:47 -0000 Message-ID: <3E8169A3.7090309@cvzoom.net> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 03:49:39 -0500 From: Donn Miller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Schultz Cc: fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is there no JFS? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-21.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Schultz wrote: > Thus spake Daxbert : >>If a JFS were to be ported and/or developed for FreeBSD >>what should it be based on? XFS, JFS, ReiserFS??? > > > It would be easier to add journalling to FFS than to port one of > the above filesystems, and the licensing would be problematic. It > is less problematic for ReiserFS because Hans Reiser is willing to > make exceptions to the GPL as long as e.g. Apple can't build OS X > on top of FreeBSD and thereby get ReiserFS without sharing the > profits with him. But you still have to find someone for whom > softupdates isn't good enough who is willing to do the work. Yes, that is true. But it's good to have various filesystems to choose from. I personally like UFS+ softupdates, because it's one filesystem that works very well. So, you're not left agonizing over which filesystem to use. Plus IMHO it greatly simplifies maintenance if there's only one filesystem, because all the effort is in maintaining that one particular filesystem, and not 3 or more others. Plus, problem reports would increase with an increase in filesystems. If other journalled filesystems were ported to FreeBSD, wouldn't that pose a maintenance headache? That would be one or more additional filesystems to maintain in addition to UFS+Softupdates. There's the potential for those additional filesystems to bitrot over time if they're neglected, much like what happened to LFS. On the positive side, journalling filesystems seem to be very hot and whatnot these days, and people are more likely to try FreeBSD if they hear it has the choice of some journalling filesystems. I personally think LFS would be the best choice as an alternative to UFS, but I haven't really looked into the technical aspects of LFS yet. And what about ReiserFS? The maintainer of that filesystem, assuming it were eventually ported to FreeBSD, would have to follow the ReiserFS development very closely for changes. All of the ReiserFS team are presently Linux kernel hackers, and probably don't know anything about FreeBSD kernel internals. Therefore, it could be difficult to track changes with the Reiser core team. And would the Reiser core team be willing to incorporate changes from a minority (FreeBSD) team? Those are the things to consider before even trying to port ReiserFS. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 26 2:34:51 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2BCE37B405 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2003 02:34:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4318243F85 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2003 02:34:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0122.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.122] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18y8F1-0000R0-00; Wed, 26 Mar 2003 02:34:43 -0800 Message-ID: <3E8181D8.46C77E08@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 02:32:56 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Donn Miller Cc: David Schultz , fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is there no JFS? References: <3E8169A3.7090309@cvzoom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4957892169a87bb5e7f91d2a3d588d8aa350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-22.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Donn Miller wrote: > I personally think LFS would be the best choice as an alternative to > UFS, but I haven't really looked into the technical aspects of LFS yet. The unified VM and buffer cache changes which were made to FFS, but not to LFS, by John Dyson, and the lack of a working "cleaner", were the primary reasons LFS "died" to the Attic. NetBSD has since written a working "cleaner", and the VM system interface changes aren't really *that* hard to understand. LFS would be moderately easy to revive to a working condition. You would get a lot of crap from certain corners of the peanut gallery about "why bother?", though. Some of this is justifiable as a criticism, because the real reason there's interest in a new FS design is the ability to boot fast after a crash, and LFS does not give you a heck of a lot of this, because the data it protects is only the metadata. You would need to add an NTFS-style "flip-flop" log on top of that for data logs, and then delay wakeups until they were known to be committed to one of the flip-flops. Also, though LFS is loosely based on the FFS code (which is why a forward port would not be difficult), it doesn't contain soft updates technology, which would annoy some people. > And what about ReiserFS? It's s trivial port, but it's GPL, unless you pay for it. It also has (IMO) some patent encumberances for Novell patents. I'm not sure they are *exclusively* licensed to USL/SCO, but they *are* licensed to them, so it may be an SCO vs. IBM thing pretty quickly (the specific patents are US Patent 5666532 and 5642501). It may also infringe 5218695, but Epoch Systems is less litigous. PS: The only way you "prove" infringement is by being sued over infringement, and losing; hence the (IMO). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs Wed Mar 26 3:33:41 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1994F37B404 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2003 03:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from thebsh.namesys.com (thebsh.namesys.com [212.16.7.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0642C43F85 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2003 03:33:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Nikita@Namesys.COM) Received: (qmail 20534 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2003 11:33:35 -0000 Received: from laputa.namesys.com (212.16.7.124) by thebsh.namesys.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2003 11:33:35 -0000 Received: by laputa.namesys.com (Postfix on SuSE Linux 8.0 (i386), from userid 511) id 663AC2A315; Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:33:34 +0300 (MSK) From: Nikita Danilov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16001.36877.971504.412198@laputa.namesys.com> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:33:33 +0300 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 43CE 9384 5A1D CD75 5087 A876 A1AA 84D0 CCAA AC92 X-PGP-Key-ID: CCAAAC92 X-PGP-Key-At: http://wwwkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCCAAAC92 To: Terry Lambert Cc: Donn Miller , David Schultz , fs@freebsd.org, Reiserfs developers mail-list Subject: Re: Why is there no JFS? In-Reply-To: <3E8181D8.46C77E08@mindspring.com> References: <3E8169A3.7090309@cvzoom.net> <3E8181D8.46C77E08@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.07 under 21.5 (beta11) "cabbage" XEmacs Lucid Emacs: the Swiss Army of Editors. X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-15.6 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,USER_AGENT_VM autolearn=ham version=2.50 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.50 (1.173-2003-02-20-exp) Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Reiserfs-Dev mailing list added to the CC.] Terry Lambert writes: > Donn Miller wrote: [...] > > > And what about ReiserFS? > > It's s trivial port, but it's GPL, unless you pay for it. It also This has already been discussed (and many times, probably. Last time in 2002 March on freebsd-fs and reiserfs-dev lists). Paid is rather porting than license switch. As for easiness of porting I thing upcoming reiser4 is simpler to port to other platforms. Reiserfs v3 relies on some idiosyncrasies of Linux to implement concurrent tree balancing and direct<->indirect conversion is coupled tightly with VM. > has (IMO) some patent encumberances for Novell patents. I'm not > sure they are *exclusively* licensed to USL/SCO, but they *are* > licensed to them, so it may be an SCO vs. IBM thing pretty quickly > (the specific patents are US Patent 5666532 and 5642501). It may > also infringe 5218695, but Epoch Systems is less litigous. Reiserfs doesn't use DOW, it uses WAL. One may argue (as you did) that "preserve lists" are a form of ordered writes. But they had been removed from the code years ago. > > PS: The only way you "prove" infringement is by being sued over > infringement, and losing; hence the (IMO). > > -- Terry > Nikita. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-fs" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 29 13:08:45 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163D337B401; Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:08:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-150.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E7D643F75; Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:08:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1061A66E05; Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:08:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E81F9FCC; Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:08:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:08:43 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: current@FreeBSD.org, fs@FreeBSD.org, kirk@mckusick.com Message-ID: <20030329210843.GA30917@rot13.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: Hard lockup after / became full X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 21:08:46 -0000 --OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Bento locked up hard overnight, such that I could not even break to the debugger. The timeline of events seems to be: Mar 29 05:10:02 bento kernel: pid 46625 (locate.code), uid 65534 inumber 16041 on /: filesystem full Some time between 5:15 and 5:20 the system locked up completely. It was in the middle of a package build (and daily maintenance) at the time, so it was under fairly heavy disk and network load. I'll try and reproduce this sometime when I can spare bento, however I suspect it's not going to be easy to trigger :( Kris --OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+hgtbWry0BWjoQKURAnWzAKDtvJOJMSvyMiPR74/zHyumdXY7MQCgruyy v+7GVK8qVxXlmMZ4/3ac/xA= =fnC7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OXfL5xGRrasGEqWY-- From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 29 18:07:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3610B37B401 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2003 18:07:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mts69.dragonmail.net (adsl-34-54-8.mia.bellsouth.net [67.34.54.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5774643FAF for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2003 18:07:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Stephanie@mts69.dragonmail.net) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by mts69.dragonmail.net for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:09:54 -0500 From: "Stephanie" To: "freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org" Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:09:54 -0500 Importance: Normal Message-ID: Subject: Wow freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org #MW300687L01 X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Stephanie@mts69.dragonmail.net List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 02:07:58 -0000 ********************************************************************** This email is brought to by DragonMail ********************************************************************** YourFavoritePresent Presents This is an independent offer brought to you by YourFavoritePresent.com. 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Offer not valid outside the United States, or to residents in California and Washington state. ********************************************************************** To discontinue the receipt of emails, visit the following link:: http://www.dragonmail.net/list/optout/optout.asp?em=freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org&eid=300687&dbid= ********************************************************************** From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 29 18:32:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856C537B401 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2003 18:32:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from web13404.mail.yahoo.com (web13404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.62]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2AEA643FB1 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2003 18:32:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from giffunip@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20030330023243.79591.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.91.194.243] by web13404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 04:32:43 CEST Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 04:32:43 +0200 (CEST) From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Pedro=20F.=20Giffuni?=" To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LFS vs FFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 02:32:44 -0000 Hi; The NetBSD guys compared FFS and LFS here: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/2003/03/30/0001.html "LFS beats FFS+softdep hands down, which is not surprising." I think FFS should do colocation but since there is so little (no) interest, perhaps it's a good time to port LFS: "A preliminary conclusion is that LFS is now pretty stable for normal usage (although I didn't create any disk-nearly-full situations which make LFS' life hard), and then it does quite well. The write case is worth some investigation." Do your own comparisons though ;). Pedro. ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Cellulari: loghi, suonerie, picture message per il tuo telefonino http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/?http://it.mobile.yahoo.com/index2002.html From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 29 20:36:06 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19B037B404 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2003 20:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E94441B8 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2003 20:06:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0027.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.27] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18zU5Y-00055g-00; Sat, 29 Mar 2003 20:06:33 -0800 Message-ID: <3E866CFC.73C3C7E@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 20:05:16 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" References: <20030330023243.79591.qmail@web13404.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a468455038c361bd5c4eab4ed3ba30adf7a2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: LFS vs FFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 04:36:15 -0000 "Pedro F. Giffuni" wrote: > The NetBSD guys compared FFS and LFS here: > http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/2003/03/30/0001.html > > "LFS beats FFS+softdep hands down, which is not > surprising." That was from an tar extraction shirt sleeve "benchmark"; I would expect this to be the case, since it could just write extents. If you notice, the wall time is the killer; this is related to the soft updates synchronization clock latency stall. It can be reduced significantly by making more clock wheel entries, or accellerating the rotation of the clock wheel under certain load circumstances (very high load or very low load -- one of the things I would suggest for a "soft read-only" implementation, for example, would be, if there was a small amount of I/O, spin it out fast, to get the system to the quiescent point faster, and, incidently,more frequently, and for longer delta intervals). You can't eliminate it completely; by encoding operations ordering in the log, LFS wins out because it doesn't delay the writes: it's just dumps the operations out in order, to the log, not caring about anythong other than the timestamp being monotonically increasing. Later down, the message has "bonnie" benchmark output, which is a mixed load benchmark, making it more representative of a potential real-world load than the shirt-sleeve variety. I expect that the log-thrashing which happens in LFS could benefit from independent operation co-ordering, meaning if it maintained a dependency list, and introduced a small latency, rather than an update clock, it could "gather" the writes of log entries much more effectively. One of the comments he makes in the posting you reference is about the "filesystem near full" case requiring exponentially increasing time from the cleaner (which should also act as a defragger). The back-pressure on the FS from the cleaner needing to be run to recover reusable extents from those out there is probably a significant issue -- as significant as the back-pressure on soft updates, following a very large delete. Some of the work done to stall operations, rather than fail them, in the presence of this back-pressure, which has been done for soft updates is probably also applicable to LFS, FWIW. > I think FFS should do colocation but since there is so > little (no) interest, perhaps it's a good time to port > LFS: > > "A preliminary conclusion is that LFS is now pretty > stable for normal usage (although I didn't create any > disk-nearly-full situations which make LFS' life > hard), and then it does quite well. The write > case is worth some investigation." > > Do your own comparisons though ;). I would like to see LFS technology revived in FreeBSD; it was killed unfairly, IMO, through poor maintenance, though the lack of a "cleaner" at the time was a good excuse to not maintain the code. -- Terry