From owner-freebsd-ia64@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 21 10:01:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C66737B401 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F1B44005 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:01:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fenner+portsurvey@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (fenner@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3LH19Up082721 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:01:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fenner+portsurvey@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from fenner@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h3LH19Vs082720; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200304211701.h3LH19Vs082720@freefall.freebsd.org> From: fenner@freebsd.org (Bill "distfiles" Fenner) To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD ports: 1 unfetchable distfiles: emulators/ski X-BeenThere: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: ports@freebsd.org List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the IA-64 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:01:16 -0000 Dear freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org, You are listed as the FreeBSD port maintainer for 1 port whose distfiles [or main web pages] are not fetchable from their MASTER_SITES. Could you please visit http://people.freebsd.org/~fenner/portsurvey/freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org.html and correct the problems listed there? The individual port with a problem is emulators/ski. Note that the main port web page, as listed in the WWW: line of the pkg-descr, is checked just as though it was a port distfile. This is an unfortunate side effect of the architecture of the distfile survey reporting tool, but if you see a distfile being reported as not fetchable that's not actually a distfile, see if it's from the pkg-descr. If you have already corrected the problems and submitted a PR, please accept my thanks and apologies for the delay in getting the fixes into the tree. This reminder is created automatically and does not (yet) have a way to know if a PR fixing the problem has been submitted. Please do *NOT* send your response to me directly; I do not always have time to commit your fix; please instead submit a PR via 'send-pr' so it doesn't get lost. Problems are usually of two types: 1. The software package has been upgraded and the version in the port has been removed. The best solution to this problem is to upgrade the port to the most current version of the software package. If you are a FreeBSD committer, then you can just upgrade the port directly. If not, you should create the updated port on your own machine, test it (and maybe even run "portlint" on it), and then use "send-pr" to submit a "diff -uNr old-port updated-port". If you added or deleted any files, please make an explicit note of it. 2. The mirror site being used no longer contains the software package in question, or no longer exists. Solutions include: a) If there are other mirror sites, just remove the bad site from the list. (Make sure that what appears to be a bad site isn't actually a problem of type 1, upgrade) b) If the README or other support files in the software documentation mention where to get the software package, use one of those sites. c) Use ftpsearch (http://ftpsearch.ntnu.no/ftpsearch) or other search engines to find another place to get the original DISTFILES. Make sure that you don't pick a FreeBSD distfiles mirror -- if you can't find any other places where the file exists, it can be a LOCAL_PORT or you can simply comment out the MASTER_SITES= line, with a comment explaining why. Once you have a solution, use "send-pr" to submit a "diff -u" of the Makefile. Note that this isn't an urgent issue, as people who try to build the port now will just fall back to the FreeBSD distfiles mirror. Please just put it on your list to do and get to it when you have time. These messages will continue to arrive twice a month until the fix is committed, as a reminder. Thanks, Bill "distfiles" Fenner. From owner-freebsd-ia64@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 18 13:45:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6957F37B404 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail15.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.215]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BEF243FDD for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:45:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 15734 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2003 20:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender )encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Apr 2003 20:45:48 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3IKjbOv079413; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:45:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.4 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:45:38 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: current@FreeBSD.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:00:45 -0700 Subject: [PATCH] Convert binary emulators to using kern_sigfoo functions.. X-BeenThere: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the IA-64 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:45:43 -0000 [ bcc'd to alpha@ and ia64@ ] I have a moderate (30k) patch to convert the various binary emulators to use kern_sigaction(), kern_sigaltstack(), kern_sigprocmask(), and kern_sigsuspend() instead of using the stackgap (or in the case of ibcs2 bogusly _not_ using the stackgap) to try and call the syscall functions directly. The patch is at http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/patches/compat.patch and affects the following emulators: - Linux on i386 - SVR4 on i386 - IBCS2 on i386 - OSF/1 on Alpha - Linux on Alpha - FreeBSD/ia32 on IA64 Please test and review. Thanks. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ From owner-freebsd-ia64@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 22 05:10:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64F5B37B401 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 05:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ii.uib.no (eik.ii.uib.no [129.177.16.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A3043FDF for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 05:09:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Trond@Davidsen.no) Received: from hyll.ii.uib.no ([129.177.16.27] helo=Davidsen.no) by smtp.ii.uib.no with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 197way-0005yz-00 for freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:09:56 +0200 Message-ID: <3EA531E1.60209@Davidsen.no> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:13:21 +0200 From: Trond Davidsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -5.8 (-----) X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *197way-0005yz-00*4VDJVmZHUF6* Subject: Fujitsu Siemens Celsius 880 X-BeenThere: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the IA-64 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:10:00 -0000 Hi, have anybody installed FreeBSD on a Fujitsu Siemens Celsius 880? I try to install from 5.0-Release-miniiso, at first the install seems to go alright, but when the machine reboots, it won't boot from the disk (or from the cdrom for that matter, but that probably a flaky cd). Somebody have any hints? -- Trond From owner-freebsd-ia64@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 26 00:33:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C4637B401 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-67-115-75-1.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [67.115.75.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5744743F3F for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:33:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [10.0.0.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3250B66B9B for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1D21E82D; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:33:34 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: ia64@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20030426073334.GA85139@rot13.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: InformationWeek: Intel Sees A 32-Bit Hole In Itanium X-BeenThere: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the IA-64 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 07:33:35 -0000 --YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=9300072 In a move to protect its investment in the 64-bit Itanium processor family, Intel is working with operating-system makers to deliver a software emulator for 32-bit apps. Intel, Microsoft, and several Linux developers plan to make IA-32 Execution Layer available in the operating-system software during the second half of this year. IA-32 Execution Layer will take 32-bit code and convert it to 64-bit code that the Itanium processor can run, an Intel spokeswoman says. Intel expects the software to boost the performance of 32-bit code running on Itanium to roughly equivalent to that of a 1.5-GHz Xeon processor. [...] Is this something that FreeBSD can/should get involved with? Kris --YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+qjZNWry0BWjoQKURAua0AKD40H3P2ILzv21GgrQ8cr0ZNZdKcQCgr9gM bL695AsyKFdNhpsQpJk4h/g= =14cF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK-- From owner-freebsd-ia64@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 26 02:41:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB2237B401 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 02:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.BAYAREA.NET [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4EE43FDD for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 02:41:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.201]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q9fawk024532; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 02:41:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3Q9faO7001089; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 02:41:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h3Q9faGc001088; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 02:41:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 02:41:35 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Kris Kennaway Message-ID: <20030426094135.GA970@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <20030426073334.GA85139@rot13.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030426073334.GA85139@rot13.obsecurity.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i cc: ia64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: InformationWeek: Intel Sees A 32-Bit Hole In Itanium X-BeenThere: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the IA-64 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:41:38 -0000 On Sat, Apr 26, 2003 at 12:33:34AM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > IA-32 Execution Layer will take 32-bit code and convert it to 64-bit > code that the Itanium processor can run, an Intel spokeswoman > says. I wonder why the conversion if ia64 can already run ia32 applications. Maybe Intel is planning to retire the ia32 execution unit early to make room for caches and additional functional units? > Is this something that FreeBSD can/should get involved with? I think it will be a waste of time. We already have ia32 support that we probably don't maintain enough. Something else only adds to the workload and it's not that we have people lining up :-) I think we should allocate our spare resources to work on native ia64 and native FreeBSD and make it a kick-ass server. If we get bored after that, we can always take on the battle with i386 and amd64 by adding compatibility layers and emulation fodder. Just my $0.02 -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-ia64@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 26 07:53:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B1EE37B401 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 07:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parmenides.zen.co.uk (parmenides.zen.co.uk [212.23.8.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E60543F85 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 07:53:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tony@ubik.demon.co.uk) Received: (qmail 9314 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2003 14:53:11 -0000 Received: from protagoras.zen.co.uk (212.23.8.61) by parmenides.zen.co.uk with QMQP; 26 Apr 2003 14:53:11 -0000 Received: from dsl-217-155-183-134.zen.co.uk (HELO ubik.demon.co.uk) (217.155.183.134) by protagoras.zen.co.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2003 14:53:11 -0000 X-Zen-Trace: 217.155.183.134 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 14:52:11 +0000 To: Marcel Moolenaar From: Anthony Naggs References: <20030426073334.GA85139@rot13.obsecurity.org> <20030426094135.GA970@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> In-Reply-To: <20030426094135.GA970@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 U cc: ia64@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: InformationWeek: Intel Sees A 32-Bit Hole In Itanium X-BeenThere: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the IA-64 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 14:53:14 -0000 In article <20030426094135.GA970@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net>, Marcel Moolenaar writes >On Sat, Apr 26, 2003 at 12:33:34AM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: >> IA-32 Execution Layer will take 32-bit code and convert it to 64-bit >> code that the Itanium processor can run, an Intel spokeswoman >> says. > >I wonder why the conversion if ia64 can already run ia32 applications. Quite slow, and Intel need to address AMD64's (perceived) lower risk migration for x86 users. AIUI native IA-32 execution doesn't support instruction extensions introduced on later Pentium models such as SSE, (since Pentium III). >Maybe Intel is planning to retire the ia32 execution unit early to >make room for caches and additional functional units? The IA-32 support takes little space at the moment, this would change somewhat if Intel were pushed into including a Xeon with 4 (say) way Hyper-Threading. So removing IA-32 wont yield much die space, but it means Intel don't have to keep taking more space to give IA-32 support comparable to their higher spec Pentium family. It also means Intel aren't committed to including IA-32 execution forever more. >> Is this something that FreeBSD can/should get involved with? > >I think it will be a waste of time. We already have ia32 support >that we probably don't maintain enough. Something else only adds >to the workload and it's not that we have people lining up :-) There is little information about the IA-32 Execution Layer as yet so one must speculate a little: Intel have committed a lot of development effort to this, and so wont to let it out of their control (or e.g. to let Transmeta see the source). So including IA-32 EL will require working through Non-Disclosure Agreements and around the need to only (mostly) have executable code to include in FreeBSD. Given all that, it seems like a very nice thing to have, (in the same way as 'Linux compatibility'), and a safeguard against the day Intel drop native IA-32 from Itaniums. Writing a translator from IA-32 to reasonably optimized IA-64 would be quite challenging. Porting Intel's IA-32 EL should not be too hard, given the opportunity. >I think we should allocate our spare resources to work on native >ia64 and native FreeBSD and make it a kick-ass server. If we get >bored after that, we can always take on the battle with i386 and >amd64 by adding compatibility layers and emulation fodder. > >Just my $0.02 If anyone has contacts at Intel perhaps they could try to find out if access to IA-32 EL for porting to FreeBSD would be possible. Tony From owner-freebsd-ia64@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 26 08:22:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D17F537B401 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1D243FBD for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:22:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 2306A5308; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:22:24 +0200 (CEST) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Anthony Naggs From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:22:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Anthony Naggs's message of "Sat, 26 Apr 2003 14:52:11 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090015 (Oort Gnus v0.15) Emacs/21.2 References: <20030426073334.GA85139@rot13.obsecurity.org> <20030426094135.GA970@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: Kris Kennaway cc: ia64@freebsd.org cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: IA32 execution layer on Itanium (was: InformationWeek: Intel Sees A 32-Bit Hole In Itanium) X-BeenThere: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the IA-64 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 15:22:28 -0000 Anthony Naggs writes: > Given all that, it seems like a very nice thing to have, (in the same > way as 'Linux compatibility'), and a safeguard against the day Intel > drop native IA-32 from Itaniums. I don't see how that is an issue for us. We've never worried about being able to run IA32 code on Alpha or Sparc chips. Just because Itanium chips *can* run IA32 code doesn't mean we *want* to or *need* to any more than we do on chips that can't. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org From owner-freebsd-ia64@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 26 10:08:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E68D737B401 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.93.134.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D20643FA3 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:08:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QH7tm2001766; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h3QH7sA0001765; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:07:54 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Marcel Moolenaar Message-ID: <20030426170754.GC1552@dragon.nuxi.com> References: <20030426073334.GA85139@rot13.obsecurity.org> <20030426094135.GA970@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030426094135.GA970@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD Group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 cc: ia64@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: InformationWeek: Intel Sees A 32-Bit Hole In Itanium X-BeenThere: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the IA-64 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:08:13 -0000 On Sat, Apr 26, 2003 at 02:41:35AM -0700, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Sat, Apr 26, 2003 at 12:33:34AM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > IA-32 Execution Layer will take 32-bit code and convert it to 64-bit > > code that the Itanium processor can run, an Intel spokeswoman > > says. > > I wonder why the conversion if ia64 can already run ia32 applications. Because the performance of 32-bit apps on ia64 sucks ass compared to AMD Operton. Notice the timing of Intel's announcement. I personally think they're shaking in their IA64 boots. From owner-freebsd-ia64@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 26 10:14:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2653737B401 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (trang.nuxi.com [66.93.134.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43D5D43FA3 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QHE2m2001846; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:14:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h3QHDv5h001841; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:13:57 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Anthony Naggs Message-ID: <20030426171357.GD1552@dragon.nuxi.com> References: <20030426073334.GA85139@rot13.obsecurity.org> <20030426094135.GA970@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD Group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 cc: Kris Kennaway cc: ia64@freebsd.org cc: Marcel Moolenaar Subject: Re: InformationWeek: Intel Sees A 32-Bit Hole In Itanium X-BeenThere: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the IA-64 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:14:26 -0000 On Sat, Apr 26, 2003 at 02:52:11PM +0000, Anthony Naggs wrote: > In article <20030426094135.GA970@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net>, Marcel Moolenaar > writes > >On Sat, Apr 26, 2003 at 12:33:34AM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > >> IA-32 Execution Layer will take 32-bit code and convert it to 64-bit > >> code that the Itanium processor can run, an Intel spokeswoman > >> says. > > > >I wonder why the conversion if ia64 can already run ia32 applications. > > Quite slow, and Intel need to address AMD64's (perceived) lower risk > migration for x86 users. Why is it *perceived*? I've seen 32-bit apps run on both. There is zero comparison which is fully usable and which is barely. > If anyone has contacts at Intel perhaps they could try to find out if > access to IA-32 EL for porting to FreeBSD would be possible. Regardless of why Intel did this, it would be good to know if it is usable. From owner-freebsd-ia64@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 26 11:15:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9344537B408 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.BAYAREA.NET [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5512543F93 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:15:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.201]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QIFDwk029764; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:15:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QIFD6k000735; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:15:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h3QIFCEq000734; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:15:12 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: Anthony Naggs Message-ID: <20030426181512.GA570@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> References: <20030426073334.GA85139@rot13.obsecurity.org> <20030426094135.GA970@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i cc: ia64@freebsd.org cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: InformationWeek: Intel Sees A 32-Bit Hole In Itanium X-BeenThere: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the IA-64 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 18:15:19 -0000 On Sat, Apr 26, 2003 at 02:52:11PM +0000, Anthony Naggs wrote: > In article <20030426094135.GA970@dhcp01.pn.xcllnt.net>, Marcel Moolenaar > writes > >On Sat, Apr 26, 2003 at 12:33:34AM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > >> IA-32 Execution Layer will take 32-bit code and convert it to 64-bit > >> code that the Itanium processor can run, an Intel spokeswoman > >> says. > > > >I wonder why the conversion if ia64 can already run ia32 applications. > > Quite slow, and Intel need to address AMD64's (perceived) lower risk > migration for x86 users. AIUI native IA-32 execution doesn't support > instruction extensions introduced on later Pentium models such as SSE, > (since Pentium III). It doesn't compute. The ia32 environment is not designed for performance, it's designed to be functional. This relates to risk and support. Not implementing SSE is a decision that directly relates to this. SSE is just a performance enhancement, which you can do without if your prime focus is functionality. What it means to me is that people don't just want an upgrade path, they want a fully fletched Pentium. Or at least, that is what I assume is perceived. Looping this back to FreeBSD, I'm having difficulty finding an attachment point. > >Maybe Intel is planning to retire the ia32 execution unit early to > >make room for caches and additional functional units? > > The IA-32 support takes little space at the moment, this would change > somewhat if Intel were pushed into including a Xeon with 4 (say) way > Hyper-Threading. This fits in with the above. The tradeoff between using die space for the ia32 engine or native ia64 execution like hyper-threading is not easily made if you need the space to improve native performance when market pressure also demands that it is used for the ia32. It's logical that you remove the conflict by taking a different road for ia32 execution. > So removing IA-32 wont yield much die space, but it > means Intel don't have to keep taking more space to give IA-32 support > comparable to their higher spec Pentium family. It also means Intel > aren't committed to including IA-32 execution forever more. Intel has never been committed AFAICT. The ia32 execution engine was always slated to be removed in favor of native execution once the upgrade path wasn't crucial anymore. Note that there's must fundamental difference here. The ia32 execution engine allows booting ia32 operating systems. The ia32 EL will not be able to do that, simply because it's part of the OS. The problem space will therefore be very different. The engine has to provide all the necessary traps/faults and exceptions, whereas the EL only has to deal with non-privileged instructions. > There is little information about the IA-32 Execution Layer as yet so > one must speculate a little: Intel have committed a lot of development > effort to this, and so wont to let it out of their control (or e.g. to > let Transmeta see the source). So including IA-32 EL will require > working through Non-Disclosure Agreements and around the need to only > (mostly) have executable code to include in FreeBSD. Yes, that's very plausible. Note that any motivated hacker can implement this on his/her own. You have both instruction sets fully documented, so you can start of with interpretation to get something of the ground. After that you can add JIT compilation and if you really want to get all Java, you add a hotspot compiler to further boost performance. > Writing a translator from IA-32 to reasonably optimized IA-64 would be > quite challenging. Porting Intel's IA-32 EL should not be too hard, > given the opportunity. It's an interesting topic for sure. HP already has something like that for their PA-RISC support. Pretty cool stuff. Nonetheless, nothing beats native code... -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-ia64@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 26 14:17:01 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DBBF37B401 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 14:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.BAYAREA.NET [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A5AD43FA3 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 14:16:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from athlon.pn.xcllnt.net (athlon.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.3]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QLGxwk030560 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 14:16:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@piii.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: from athlon.pn.xcllnt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by athlon.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3QLGxJc000960 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 14:16:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@athlon.pn.xcllnt.net) Received: (from marcel@localhost) by athlon.pn.xcllnt.net (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h3QLGxjr000959 for ia64@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 26 Apr 2003 14:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 14:16:59 -0700 From: Marcel Moolenaar To: ia64@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20030426211659.GA631@athlon.pn.xcllnt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Subject: HP rx2600 boots SMP X-BeenThere: freebsd-ia64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the IA-64 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 21:17:01 -0000 Gang, The EPC overhaul that is planned for 5.1 has some nice side-effects. It gets our rx2600 boxes to boot with SMP: \begin{dmesg snippet} : Copyright (c) 1992-2003 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Apr 26 13:40:19 PDT 2003 marcel@pluto2.freebsd.org:/q/scratch/marcel/ia64_epc/sys/ia64/compile/PLUTO-MP : SMP: waking up cpu1 FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 2 CPUs cpu0: SAPIC Id=0, SAPIC Eid=0 (BSP) cpu1: SAPIC Id=1, SAPIC Eid=0 : \end{dmesg snippet} \begin{sysctl sbippet} pluto2# sysctl -a hw hw.machine: ia64 hw.model: Itanium 2 hw.ncpu: 2 : \end{sysctl snippet} More info will follow after I stress tested it a bit more... -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net