From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 4 13:43:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 174AB16A4CE for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 13:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from winston.piwebs.com (217-19-20-186.dsl.cambrium.nl [217.19.20.186]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4111143D46 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2004 13:43:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 17988 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2004 20:43:00 -0000 Received: from vincent.piwebs.com (192.168.0.85) by winston.piwebs.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2004 20:43:00 -0000 From: Arjan van Leeuwen To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Michal Pasternak Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 22:44:01 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 References: <20040401220702.B56A86A832@smtp4.pacifier.net> <20040403172643.GA48831@cimbali.dssrg.curtin.edu.au> <20040403235314.GA47866@pasternak.w.lub.pl> In-Reply-To: <20040403235314.GA47866@pasternak.w.lub.pl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Boundary-02=_UOHcAvpPYDk8Y2T"; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200404042244.04346.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Subject: Re: BSD Success Stories X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: avleeuwen@piwebs.com List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 20:43:03 -0000 --Boundary-02=_UOHcAvpPYDk8Y2T Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Sunday 04 April 2004 01:53, Michal Pasternak wrote: > Charon [Sun, Apr 04, 2004 at 01:26:43AM +0800]: > > On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 01:11:06AM -0500, Chris Laverdure wrote: (quote ripped) > > Well, the real question is: > > http://seclists.org/lists/linux-kernel/2004/Feb/0123.html > > First thing is, we can laugh at Linux developers, who couldn't code proper > uptme counter until 2.6.0. > > Second thing is, I wonder, how the uptimes will look in 1 - 2 years, just > because Linux 2.6.x is getting to be widely used. > > Third, I don't really know, if that fault in Linux uptime counting really > hits Netcraft. Perhaps they use some other method. > > Anyway, uptimes need a closer examination, before we can surely state some > statements about it. Comments? Uptimes aren't that interesting. Netcraft's reliability statistics are.=20 =46reeBSD has been prominent in all the monthly reliability top 10s that=20 Netcraft has published. See the newest one: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/04/04/most_reliable_hosting_provid= ers_during_march.html Arjan --Boundary-02=_UOHcAvpPYDk8Y2T Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBAcHOU3Ym57eNCXiERAoMXAKCYp0lBFfzNbOmccnhsQ0p2A9Y1mQCgp0AN t9zi6c0LA82pncxrVnFiXWI= =UF9K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Boundary-02=_UOHcAvpPYDk8Y2T-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 8 20:53:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A72416A4CF for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beck.quonix.net (beck.quonix.net [146.145.66.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF94043D5F for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:53:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (pcp04571733pcs.neave01.pa.comcast.net [68.80.46.122]) by beck.quonix.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i393rHbE084381 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <91A01A3C-89D8-11D8-91B3-0003933DDCFA@essenz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: John Von Essen Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:47:05 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) X-SpamAssassin-Score: 0.7/6 () RCVD_IN_DYNABLOCK,RCVD_IN_SORBS X-MimeDefang: beck.quonix.net X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.39 Subject: Max OS X and BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:53:24 -0000 I need to get something cleared up in my head because it is driving me nuts. It has to do with the relationship between Mac OS X and BSD. For starters, I am an "old" NeXT user. I used NeXTSTEP 3.x and OPENSTEP 4.2. I remember back in 97, Apple acquired NeXT software and thus acquired the OPENSTEP 4.2 operating system. At the time I was running OPENSTEP 4.2 (along with the ill-fated WebObjects) on a Pentium II box, and running NEXTSTEP 3.3 User on a NeXTStation Mono Slab. Around that time, Apple started work on rhapsody - their next generation OS. I was under the assumption that rhapsody (and later darwin) was basically an OPENSTEP derivative with a brand new graphics layer. Its obvious to anybody who uses OS X currently, and who used to use OPENSTEP 4.2. In OS X, the app NetInfo is strikingly similar to the NetInfo app in NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP. A ps -ax lists a whole bunch of processes that are also strikingly similar between the two. The there are things like WebObject which came from OPENSTEP 4.2, Objective-C framework which was present back in NEXTSTEP versions. I was under the impression that OS X was a derivative of OPENSTEP - which means from a kernel standpoint it is NOT BSD and NOT System V, rather it is a MACH kernel (which sort of is a BSD kernel derivative). Apple scraped the graphics layer and made their own. And this is where the BSD connection comes in, Apple scraped OPENSTEP's TCP/IP and opted to use the one from FreeBSD - which is the best! The problem is I hear things from people, and I read things from prominent sources, that completely make no sense. Things like: OS X is FreeBSD OS X is BSD Unix Apple uses the FreeBSD kernel And today I got a security email from WatchGuard (the crapy firewall people) with the statement: "With OS X, Apple changed the core of its operating system to a version of Unix known as BSD." Then colleges of mine read that, and they come to me and say, "Hey, did ya hear? Apple uses FreeBSD" Its driving me nuts, when are people going to get things straight? Or am I completely off base here?! -john From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 9 01:50:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CDBD16A4CE for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 01:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crf-consulting.co.uk (82-44-220-218.cable.ubr10.haye.blueyonder.co.uk [82.44.220.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9045F43D53 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 01:50:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@crf-consulting.co.uk) Received: from clan.nothing-going-on.org (clan.nothing-going-on.org [192.168.1.20])i398oh5U034592; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:50:43 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@catkin) Received: from clan.nothing-going-on.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i398oghX015081; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:50:42 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@clan.nothing-going-on.org) Received: (from nik@localhost)i398obkm015080; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:50:37 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:50:37 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: John Von Essen Message-ID: <20040409085036.GA15003@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <91A01A3C-89D8-11D8-91B3-0003933DDCFA@essenz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AqsLC8rIMeq19msA" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <91A01A3C-89D8-11D8-91B3-0003933DDCFA@essenz.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Organization: FreeBSD Project cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Max OS X and BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 08:50:58 -0000 --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 11:47:05PM -0400, John Von Essen wrote: > I need to get something cleared up in my head because it is driving me=20 > nuts. It has to do with the relationship between Mac OS X and BSD. http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/unix/ N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ (__) FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ \\\'',) \/ \= ^ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- .\._/= _) --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAdmPck6gHZCw343URAqOCAJ4otA8eIwpy5NNqtoavuMDPWMNvNwCfYkxx kbLAZgJn4SrvOIYuzcrzIXI= =HPpO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 9 10:52:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7EA16A4CE for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CCFF43D3F for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:52:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02.acuson.com ([157.226.230.209]:2545) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BC0B5-0002XQ-6H; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 10:52:31 -0700 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:42:37 -0700 Received: from dhcp-46-159.acuson.com ([157.226.46.159]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id HX2WYQ1H; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:41:20 -0700 From: Johnson David To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:50:18 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 References: <91A01A3C-89D8-11D8-91B3-0003933DDCFA@essenz.com> In-Reply-To: <91A01A3C-89D8-11D8-91B3-0003933DDCFA@essenz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200404091050.19040.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Subject: Re: Max OS X and BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:52:54 -0000 On Thursday 08 April 2004 08:47 pm, John Von Essen wrote: > I was under the impression that OS X was a derivative of OPENSTEP - > which means from a kernel standpoint it is NOT BSD and NOT System V, > rather it is a MACH kernel (which sort of is a BSD kernel > derivative). The microkernel is MACH, but the microkernel isn't the whole kernel. GNU Hurd uses MACH, as did the Linux kernel in the mkLinux distro for Mac. (Actually, "MACH" is a whole family of related microkernels). Mac's operating environment is Darwin. This is an open source BSD style Unix. It was derived from BSD codebases, of which FreeBSD was one. It gets confusing because GNU and Microsoft have managed to label everything from the kernel to the desktop as "operating system". Darwin is more than an operating system, which is why I used the term "operating environment" earlier. Most of the userand is derived from FreeBSD, with additions from GNU. Apple does use FreeBSD. But not all of Darwin is FreeBSD nor is all of FreeBSD in Darwin. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 9 13:08:32 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAAF116A4E4 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from enterprise.sd73.bc.ca (romulus-net.sd73.bc.ca [142.24.13.134]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C09343D45 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:08:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca) Received: from mailtest.sd73.bc.ca (mailtest.sd73.bc.ca [10.10.10.14]) i39JvNDP032158 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:57:23 -0700 Received: from 24.71.128.221 (SquirrelMail authenticated user fcash) by mailtest.sd73.bc.ca with HTTP; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3381.24.71.128.221.1081541310.squirrel@mailtest.sd73.bc.ca> In-Reply-To: <200404091050.19040.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> References: <91A01A3C-89D8-11D8-91B3-0003933DDCFA@essenz.com> <200404091050.19040.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:08:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "Freddie Cash" To: advocacy@freebsd.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Subject: Re: Max OS X and BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 20:08:33 -0000 > On Thursday 08 April 2004 08:47 pm, John Von Essen wrote: >> I was under the impression that OS X was a derivative of OPENSTEP - >> which means from a kernel standpoint it is NOT BSD and NOT System V, >> rather it is a MACH kernel (which sort of is a BSD kernel >> derivative). A really nice breakdown of MacOS X can be found at: http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/osx/arch.html That should clear up most of your questions. :) -- Freddie Cash fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 9 20:02:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA68616A4CE for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trekster.al.siegel-tech.net (bgp01386312bgs.brodwy01.nm.comcast.net [68.35.160.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF9C43D3F for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:02:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aj@trekster.al.siegel-tech.net) Received: from trekster.al.siegel-tech.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i3A31KIo001528 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:01:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aj@trekster.al.siegel-tech.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) i3A31KcJ001527 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:01:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aj) From: Aaron Siegel To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 21:01:18 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.6 References: <200403300555.i2U5tGrM026994@cimbali.dssrg.curtin.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <200403300555.i2U5tGrM026994@cimbali.dssrg.curtin.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200404092101.19408.aj@siegel-tech.net> Subject: Re: The Website X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 03:02:03 -0000 Hello I would introduce a new idea to the discussion, rather than putting the your effort and immense talents into creating a webpage channel into a new interface for FreeBSD. I do not mean creating a GUI or anything like the commercial linuxes have tried. A HTML./XML interface that can be used to guide one through FreeBSD and the opensource world and allow you to interact with your system. The web interface has revolutionized the embedded gateways and routers. Why shouldn't this interface be applied to the PC and PC server? I am not a computer professional or web page design so I will not be able to get to technical. I know there are projects out there that try to create a web based configuration program, I have tried one of them, I think it can be done better. I see this interface can be used in three ways, for promotion of the system, installation, and extending FreeBSD use the people who prefer graphical interface. 1. Functional Servers on a Disc - create a promotional CD-Rom and floppy that boots a full functional FreeBSD server. After the system is booted the user can go to their desktop, pull up the interface and let the guide lead them trough the configuration process. A functional, diskless server, ftp, web, NFS, ssh, router, DNS name server, Samba fileserver, firewall ..... 2. The Installations - I really like sysinstall as long as I do not try to do to much with it. When I need to do a fresh install I like to do a minimal installation with sysinstall, install only the system. Reboot the computer to perform the configuration and install all the packages. This gives the ability to know what I am getting and with the proper guidance is not any more difficult. The interface would provide that guidance, one would do a basic install, and perform the configuration at desktop or a local web browser. 3. Administering - I perfer command line and text files so I will leave this to your imagination. There are many technical issues, this is not the place to discuss. I just wanted to share my ideas see if anyone else might be intrested. Anymore discusion on this should be moved to a different thread. I could probably develop small pieces of the project, but I do not have the experience to start the whole project. On Monday 29 March 2004 10:55 pm, Charon wrote: > What are the obstacles along the way to adopting a more > corporate/professional appeal in the layout of the freebsd.org website? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"