From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 13 06:03:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A755B16A4CE for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 06:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (bay8-f89.bay8.hotmail.com [64.4.27.89]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA4A43D62 for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 06:03:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from int876@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 13 May 2004 06:03:58 -0700 Received: from 207.95.225.26 by by8fd.bay8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 13 May 2004 13:03:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.95.225.26] X-Originating-Email: [int876@hotmail.com] X-Sender: int876@hotmail.com From: "Scott Allen Scott Allen" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:03:44 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 May 2004 13:03:58.0422 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0F85760:01C438EA] Subject: Fresh WhoIs data (emails, phones, etc.) on sale! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:03:58 -0000 How many do you have ??? ...what Is the price ??? Do you constantly collect more ??? I have the software but ALWAYS need more ...... Best REgards, Larry _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 13 12:39:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC8116A4CE for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu (1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu [128.147.18.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A906243D3F for ; Thu, 13 May 2004 12:39:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from personrp@ccbh.com) Received: by 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 13 May 2004 15:39:15 -0400 Message-ID: <4BA256918ACE7449BD7896E65711C88B0624814B@1UPMC-MSX8.isdip.upmc.edu> From: "Person, Roderick" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:39:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: RE: Fresh WhoIs data (emails, phones, etc.) on sale! X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:39:17 -0000 > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! There are just too many contradictions in that statement. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 14 01:48:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A502B16A4CE for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 01:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3101643D39 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 01:48:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from ukug.uk.freebsd.org (parish.gotadsl.co.uk [62.3.235.43]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4DA2605F2 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 09:48:36 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <40A48806.101@ukug.uk.freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:49:10 +0100 From: Mark Ovens User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 7.0 (Windows/20040428) X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Threat to FreeBSD in Europe? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:48:43 -0000 http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/05/13/1447225.shtml?tid=132&tid=150&tid=82 Mark From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 14 02:02:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2057C16A4CE for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 02:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4896A43D45 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 02:02:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan0.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.162] helo=localhost) by tx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BOYac-0005Xl-DY for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 14 May 2004 10:02:46 +0100 Received: from rx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.1.161]) by localhost (scan0.oucs.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.162]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 21129-04 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 10:02:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx0.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BOYac-0005Xh-08 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 14 May 2004 10:02:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 31521 invoked by uid 1004); 14 May 2004 09:02:46 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.20 (clamscan: 0.67. sweep: 2.18/3.79. Clear:RC:1(163.1.161.131):. Processed in 0.103216 secs); 14 May 2004 09:02:46 -0000 Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 May 2004 09:02:45 -0000 Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.1.20040514095157.03e2a4d0@popserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@popserver.sfu.ca (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:02:05 +0100 To: Mark Ovens From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <40A48806.101@ukug.uk.freebsd.org> References: <40A48806.101@ukug.uk.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Threat to FreeBSD in Europe? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:02:48 -0000 At 09:49 14/05/2004, Mark Ovens wrote: >http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/05/13/1447225.shtml?tid=132&tid=150&tid=82 FreeBSD is thriving in the US. Suggesting that the EU adopting US-style patent rules would threaten FreeBSD is consequently ironic at best. Free Software has been riding on the coat-tails of commercial software for far too long, and this article is just an attempt by Mandrakesoft to preserve their ability to do that. Wake up guys; if Free Software is going to succeed, it has to innovate for itself. And, whatever some people may think, looking at someone else's wheel, building your own, and then giving it away for free does not constitute innovation. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 14 18:32:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7937616A4CE for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 18:32:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD56443D53 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 18:32:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: from user-0cdfepc.cable.mindspring.com ([24.215.187.44] helo=bluerondo) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BOo2j-0004zy-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 14 May 2004 18:32:49 -0700 Received: (qmail 1238 invoked by uid 1002); 15 May 2004 01:32:40 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 21:32:40 -0400 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20040515013240.GA1199@online.fr> References: <40A48806.101@ukug.uk.freebsd.org> <6.1.0.6.1.20040514095157.03e2a4d0@popserver.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20040514095157.03e2a4d0@popserver.sfu.ca> X-Operating-System: DragonFly 1.0-CURRENT i386 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: Mark Ovens Subject: Re: Threat to FreeBSD in Europe? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 01:32:50 -0000 Colin Percival said on May 14, 2004 at 10:02:05: > At 09:49 14/05/2004, Mark Ovens wrote: > >http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/05/13/1447225.shtml?tid=132&tid=150&tid=82 > > FreeBSD is thriving in the US. Suggesting that the EU adopting US-style > patent rules would threaten FreeBSD is consequently ironic at best. > Free Software has been riding on the coat-tails of commercial software > for far too long, and this article is just an attempt by Mandrakesoft > to preserve their ability to do that. No, this is an attempt to avoid a future where all European software developers (free or otherwise) will have to spend their time and effort dodging patents for idiotic "innovations" like the XOR cursor and Amazon's one-click shopping. True, they have to dodge such patents anyway if they want a piece of the US market. That doesn't mean Europe should introduce similar rules too. > Wake up guys; if Free Software is going to succeed, it has to innovate > for itself. And, whatever some people may think, looking at someone else's > wheel, building your own, and then giving it away for free does not > constitute innovation. I think you have it backwards. Many of the "wheels" moved from BSD to commercial software, rather than the other way around. Increasingly, commercial unix is picking up free software "wheels" like GNOME/KDE/Mozilla and (in an earlier generation) GNU Emacs. And I still wish the GNU readline library was more widespread in the commercial world (or the non-GPL free software world, for that matter). Unfortunately, RMS knew how useful it was and deliberately licensed it under the GPL rather than the LGPL. In a similar situation (seeing something good in proprietary-land), the free software community would have reinvented it; not a single commercial company has done that, and if you're used to it in GNU software, command-line editing becomes a torture on any commercial unix or any non-GPL software package. (Come to think of it, python does have very readline-like capabilities, and groks my .inputrc, but doesn't seem to be linked to the readline library and isn't GPL-licensed. Perhaps they did reinvent that particular wheel.) Rahul From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 14 20:36:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B335316A4CE for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 20:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net (turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.126]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E67143D2F for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 20:36:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: from user-0cdfepc.cable.mindspring.com ([24.215.187.44] helo=bluerondo) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BOpyq-0001JB-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 14 May 2004 20:36:56 -0700 Received: (qmail 1694 invoked by uid 1002); 15 May 2004 03:36:48 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 23:36:48 -0400 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20040515033648.GA1667@online.fr> References: <40A48806.101@ukug.uk.freebsd.org> <6.1.0.6.1.20040514095157.03e2a4d0@popserver.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20040514095157.03e2a4d0@popserver.sfu.ca> X-Operating-System: DragonFly 1.0-CURRENT i386 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: Mark Ovens Subject: Re: Threat to FreeBSD in Europe? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 03:36:57 -0000 > Wake up guys; if Free Software is going to succeed, it has to innovate > for itself. And, whatever some people may think, looking at someone else's > wheel, building your own, and then giving it away for free does not > constitute innovation. Here's what Robert Cringely wrote some months ago, of the word "innovation": This word, which was hardly used at all until two or three years ago, feels to me like a propaganda campaign and a successful one at that, dominating discussion in the computer industry. I think Microsoft did this intentionally, for they are the ones who seem to continually use the word. But what does it mean? And how is it different from what we might have said before? I think the word they are replacing is "invention." Bill Shockley invented the transistor, Gordon Moore and Bob Noyce invented the integrated circuit, Ted Hof invented the microprocessor. Of course others claimed to have done those same three things, but the goal was always invention. Only now we innovate, which is deliberately vague but seems to stop somewhere short of invention. Innovators have wiggle room. They can steal ideas, for example, and pawn them off as their own. That's the intersection of innovation and sharp business. http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030904.html Rahul From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 15 09:11:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78F1A16A4CE; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21F5B43D1D; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from inchoate.gsoft.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FGBGq8066192; Sun, 16 May 2004 01:41:17 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 01:41:15 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <40A48806.101@ukug.uk.freebsd.org> <6.1.0.6.1.20040514095157.03e2a4d0@popserver.sfu.ca> <20040515013240.GA1199@online.fr> In-Reply-To: <20040515013240.GA1199@online.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200405160141.15765.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -4.9 () CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_KMAIL X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: Rahul Siddharthan cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: Mark Ovens Subject: Re: Threat to FreeBSD in Europe? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 16:11:28 -0000 =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 15 May 2004 11:02, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > company has done that, and if you're used to it in GNU software, > command-line editing becomes a torture on any commercial unix or any > non-GPL software package. (Come to think of it, python does have very > readline-like capabilities, and groks my .inputrc, but doesn't seem to > be linked to the readline library and isn't GPL-licensed. Perhaps > they did reinvent that particular wheel.) It loads it on the fly. =2D --=20 Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFApkEj5ZPcIHs/zowRAj84AJ42mbIju07JTHESINo9Hh8wu9jf/QCgpZYO 21CdkCZXDJVOAzFaKQxunzU=3D =3DwrkM =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 15 09:11:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78F1A16A4CE; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21F5B43D1D; Sat, 15 May 2004 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from inchoate.gsoft.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i4FGBGq8066192; Sun, 16 May 2004 01:41:17 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 01:41:15 +0930 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <40A48806.101@ukug.uk.freebsd.org> <6.1.0.6.1.20040514095157.03e2a4d0@popserver.sfu.ca> <20040515013240.GA1199@online.fr> In-Reply-To: <20040515013240.GA1199@online.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200405160141.15765.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -4.9 () CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_KMAIL X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: Rahul Siddharthan cc: chat@freebsd.org cc: Mark Ovens Subject: Re: Threat to FreeBSD in Europe? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 16:11:28 -0000 =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 15 May 2004 11:02, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > company has done that, and if you're used to it in GNU software, > command-line editing becomes a torture on any commercial unix or any > non-GPL software package. (Come to think of it, python does have very > readline-like capabilities, and groks my .inputrc, but doesn't seem to > be linked to the readline library and isn't GPL-licensed. Perhaps > they did reinvent that particular wheel.) It loads it on the fly. =2D --=20 Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFApkEj5ZPcIHs/zowRAj84AJ42mbIju07JTHESINo9Hh8wu9jf/QCgpZYO 21CdkCZXDJVOAzFaKQxunzU=3D =3DwrkM =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE-----