From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 29 14:33:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11BF016A4CE; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:33:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from postfix3-1.free.fr (postfix3-1.free.fr [213.228.0.44]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A2B43D39; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:33:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: from imp1-q.free.fr (imp1-q.free.fr [212.27.42.1]) by postfix3-1.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5A7173B8E; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:33:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: by imp1-q.free.fr (Postfix, from userid 33) id D3E3436F08; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:32:22 +0200 (MEST) Received: from 210-210-39-26.lan.sify.net (210-210-39-26.lan.sify.net [210.210.39.26]) by imp1-q.free.fr (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:32:22 +0200 Message-ID: <1093789942.4131e8f6b486a@imp1-q.free.fr> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:32:22 +0200 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Brad Knowles References: <41248C2F.8020401@quadspeed.com> <417F9703-F1DC-11D8-AE79-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> <007001c485ec$9d3bbb10$3300a8c0@verizon.net> <9FDC1E28-F1E2-11D8-AE79-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> <20040819134840.GA3104@online.fr> <20040822015558.GO92256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040827114038.GA2453@online.fr> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.5 X-Originating-IP: 210.210.39.26 cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why top-posting is bad X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:33:11 -0000 Brad Knowles wrote: > At 5:10 PM +0530 2004-08-27, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > >> [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] > >> > >> at the top of such replies and > > > > First comment: you included this message at the top of this mail, but > > the only difference in format I see between your message and mine is > > the quoting ">" marks. Why your "format recovered" message? > > Lines re-wrapped, I should think. Or, if he's responding to > e-mail that was formatted in HTML, then it's probably the first ASCII > conversion/line-wrapping job that has been done to them. None of the above. As you'd have known if you saw my mail (it's in the archives). Rahul From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 29 17:22:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B28816A4CE; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:22:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF4C343D39; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:22:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i7THM19p087764; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:22:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1093789942.4131e8f6b486a@imp1-q.free.fr> References: <41248C2F.8020401@quadspeed.com> <417F9703-F1DC-11D8-AE79-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> <007001c485ec$9d3bbb10$3300a8c0@verizon.net> <9FDC1E28-F1E2-11D8-AE79-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> <20040819134840.GA3104@online.fr> <20040822015558.GO92256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040827114038.GA2453@online.fr> <1093789942.4131e8f6b486a@imp1-q.free.fr> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 19:21:29 +0200 To: Rahul Siddharthan From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why top-posting is bad X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:22:06 -0000 At 4:32 PM +0200 2004-08-29, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: >> Lines re-wrapped, I should think. Or, if he's responding to >> e-mail that was formatted in HTML, then it's probably the first ASCII >> conversion/line-wrapping job that has been done to them. > > None of the above. As you'd have known if you saw my mail (it's in the > archives). I did see the message in question. However, I know that my own MUA does line re-wrapping and HTML formatting, so it's hard for me to be sure that I'm seeing exactly the same thing that Greg does with his MUA. Therefore, it's hard for me to know for certain what Greg might be thinking when he sees the same message on his end. I can say that I've known Greg for a while, and over the years I have never known him to make a mistake of this sort on messages that he is replying to. In this case, I came to what I believed to be highly likely conclusions based on the history I've seen from him and the messages that he has responded to in the past, and then extrapolated from that as to what I felt he was probably complaining about in your specific case. I will concede that I was not correct in the conclusions I came to. However, I believe that the overall process was reasonably sound, albeit not completely perfect. That said, I don't think I made any absolute statements as to what Greg was definitely thinking at the time or what he was precisely complaining about. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 30 05:12:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3085A16A4CE for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 05:12:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2.imsc.res.in (mail2.imsc.res.in [203.199.209.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D0B43D55 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 05:12:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: from banyan.imsc.ernet.in ([202.41.95.76]) by mail2.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C1eex-0003Wx-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:54:51 +0530 Received: from bluerondo (dhcp25.imsc.res.in [172.16.12.50] (may be forged)) i7U5CiIG009803 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:42:45 +0530 Received: (qmail 1271 invoked by uid 1002); 30 Aug 2004 05:12:43 -0000 Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:42:43 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Brad Knowles Message-ID: <20040830051243.GA976@online.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Brad Knowles , Greg 'groggy' Lehey , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <41248C2F.8020401@quadspeed.com> <417F9703-F1DC-11D8-AE79-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> <007001c485ec$9d3bbb10$3300a8c0@verizon.net> <9FDC1E28-F1E2-11D8-AE79-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> <20040819134840.GA3104@online.fr> <20040822015558.GO92256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040827114038.GA2453@online.fr> <1093789942.4131e8f6b486a@imp1-q.free.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: DragonFly 1.1-CURRENT i386 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why top-posting is bad X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 05:12:50 -0000 Brad Knowles said on Aug 29, 2004 at 19:21:29: > same message on his end. I can say that I've known Greg for a while, So have I, on email > and over the years I have never known him to make a mistake of this > sort on messages that he is replying to. I agree and I said so. My point was that this sort of thing may not be taken kindly to by a stranger. If you want to go about correcting the world's email habits, you should (a) make sure that the problem you're seeing is clearly referenced in the web page you link to, (b) if that's not the case, say what the problem is. I don't mean to pick on Greg: he's one of the most polite people around and it wasn't he who started this thread. Rahul From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 30 09:00:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E952E16A4CF; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:00:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2101E43D66; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:00:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i7U90OD4031435; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 05:00:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040830051243.GA976@online.fr> References: <41248C2F.8020401@quadspeed.com> <417F9703-F1DC-11D8-AE79-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> <007001c485ec$9d3bbb10$3300a8c0@verizon.net> <9FDC1E28-F1E2-11D8-AE79-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> <20040819134840.GA3104@online.fr> <20040822015558.GO92256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040827114038.GA2453@online.fr> <1093789942.4131e8f6b486a@imp1-q.free.fr> <20040830051243.GA976@online.fr> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:59:59 +0200 To: Rahul Siddharthan From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why top-posting is bad X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:00:47 -0000 At 10:42 AM +0530 2004-08-30, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > If you want to go about correcting the world's email habits, you > should (a) make sure that the problem you're seeing is clearly > referenced in the web page you link to, (b) if that's not the case, > say what the problem is. Again, we get back to the problem of it being impossible to enumerate all the potential permutations and combinations of various different things that people might do wrong in formatting a message. If you disagree, then I would invite you to go individually count all the atoms in the universe. When you're done, then count all the atoms that you missed. It is possible to describe a number of common message formatting problems on a web page, and when you discover any kind of formatting problem in a message that you are replying to, you can refer people to that page. If you think you can do better, I would encourage you to do so -- lead by example. Once you have a known working implementation that is superior, show us what you did and how, and we can integrate that with our own methods. You might even wind up teaching Greg a thing or three. Until/unless you can do that, I don't think you're likely to gain much traction here. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 30 10:58:51 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7729E16A520 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:58:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2.imsc.res.in (mail2.imsc.res.in [203.199.209.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A171D43D53 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:58:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: from banyan.imsc.ernet.in ([202.41.95.76]) by mail2.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C1k3r-0004ws-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:40:55 +0530 Received: from bluerondo (dhcp25.imsc.res.in [172.16.12.50] (may be forged)) i7UAwjIG007798 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:28:47 +0530 Received: (qmail 2158 invoked by uid 1002); 30 Aug 2004 10:58:47 -0000 Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:28:47 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Brad Knowles Message-ID: <20040830105847.GA2108@online.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Brad Knowles , Greg 'groggy' Lehey , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <007001c485ec$9d3bbb10$3300a8c0@verizon.net> <9FDC1E28-F1E2-11D8-AE79-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> <20040819134840.GA3104@online.fr> <20040822015558.GO92256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040827114038.GA2453@online.fr> <1093789942.4131e8f6b486a@imp1-q.free.fr> <20040830051243.GA976@online.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: DragonFly 1.1-CURRENT i386 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why top-posting is bad X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:58:51 -0000 Brad Knowles said on Aug 30, 2004 at 10:59:59: > At 10:42 AM +0530 2004-08-30, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > If you want to go about correcting the world's email habits, you > > should (a) make sure that the problem you're seeing is clearly > > referenced in the web page you link to, (b) if that's not the case, > > say what the problem is. > > Again, we get back to the problem of it being impossible to > enumerate all the potential permutations and combinations of various > different things that people might do wrong in formatting a message. Tough. You're the one who's being picky about what you will or will not read. > If you think you can do better, I would encourage you to do so -- > lead by example. Sure. Here's my algorithm: 1. In private mail, I really don't care, unless the formatting is truly egregious. On such (very rare) occasions I've prodded the sender a bit. 2. On public mailing lists, I know perfectly well that others will complain louder than I do, so I don't care. So just cool off a bit. And if a message is necessary at all, may I suggest something a bit dignified like "On public mailing lists, properly formatted mails are helpful: see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html" And, if it's a non-obvious formatting error, say what the problem is rather than leave the reader wondering "What did I do?" or "What's this Grog guy ranting about?" If you can spend time whining about it you can spend 20 seconds writing about it. Plus it's better for the blood pressure. Unless you like to encourage the typical linuxer's opinion that the typical BSD user is an arrogant, pompous, obnoxious jerk. Rahul From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 30 11:44:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4678816A4CE; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:44:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D780743D31; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:44:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i7UBirDU044230; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 07:44:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040830105847.GA2108@online.fr> References: <007001c485ec$9d3bbb10$3300a8c0@verizon.net> <9FDC1E28-F1E2-11D8-AE79-000393BB56F2@HiWAAY.net> <20040819134840.GA3104@online.fr> <20040822015558.GO92256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040827114038.GA2453@online.fr> <1093789942.4131e8f6b486a@imp1-q.free.fr> <20040830051243.GA976@online.fr> <20040830105847.GA2108@online.fr> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:45:07 +0200 To: Rahul Siddharthan From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why top-posting is bad X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:44:56 -0000 At 4:28 PM +0530 2004-08-30, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > Tough. You're the one who's being picky about what you will or will > not read. I do choose not to read some messages, that's true. Perhaps the subject doesn't sound interesting, or it looks like spam, or it's from someone who I have come to know, dislike, and choose to ignore. One is welcome to choose which category one prefers to fall into. > Sure. Here's my algorithm: > > 1. In private mail, I really don't care, unless the formatting is > truly egregious. On such (very rare) occasions I've prodded the > sender a bit. > > 2. On public mailing lists, I know perfectly well that others will > complain louder than I do, so I don't care. Right, but if everyone followed this algorithm, then no one would ever complain, and nothing would ever be done about the problem. Therefore, you cannot recommend that everyone else follow this algorithm, lest you destroy the very algorithm you use yourself. Moreover, it is frequently helpful to be more vocal about this sort of thing in private e-mail, because the person in question is more likely to be someone you know, and this sort of thing is pretty much always better to come from someone you know than some random stranger. Having a friend tell you that your fly is unzipped is much nicer than running around with your underwear (or genitals) hanging out for everyone to see, and then having some random stranger on the street five hours later tell you what your friend should have told you earlier. > And, if it's a non-obvious formatting error, say what the problem is > rather than leave the reader wondering "What did I do?" or "What's > this Grog guy ranting about?" If you can spend time whining about it > you can spend 20 seconds writing about it. Plus it's better for the > blood pressure. I strongly suspect that the header in question is automatically added to messages which are incorrectly formatted, and that Greg doesn't have to do any extra typing at all. He also doesn't have to expend any blood pressure on the subject. His MUA recovers the message format automatically, and he responds to the actual question at hand, and doesn't have to worry about the rest. > Unless you like to encourage the typical linuxer's opinion that the > typical BSD user is an arrogant, pompous, obnoxious jerk. If that's the perception that you want to create, by all means, please continue your diatribe. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 30 12:24:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D97B16A4CE for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:24:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2.imsc.res.in (mail2.imsc.res.in [203.199.209.87]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A7143D1D for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:24:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rsidd@online.fr) Received: from banyan.imsc.ernet.in ([202.41.95.76]) by mail2.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C1lOx-0005Ly-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:06:47 +0530 Received: from bluerondo (dhcp25.imsc.res.in [172.16.12.50] (may be forged)) i7UCObIG014419 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:54:38 +0530 Received: (qmail 2346 invoked by uid 1002); 30 Aug 2004 12:24:40 -0000 Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:54:40 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Brad Knowles Message-ID: <20040830122440.GA2327@online.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Brad Knowles , Greg 'groggy' Lehey , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20040819134840.GA3104@online.fr> <20040822015558.GO92256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040827114038.GA2453@online.fr> <1093789942.4131e8f6b486a@imp1-q.free.fr> <20040830051243.GA976@online.fr> <20040830105847.GA2108@online.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: DragonFly 1.1-CURRENT i386 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why top-posting is bad X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:24:41 -0000 Brad Knowles said on Aug 30, 2004 at 13:45:07: > > 1. In private mail, I really don't care, unless the formatting is > > truly egregious. On such (very rare) occasions I've prodded the > > sender a bit. > > > > 2. On public mailing lists, I know perfectly well that others will > > complain louder than I do, so I don't care. [snip] > Having a friend tell you that your fly is unzipped is much nicer > than running around with your underwear (or genitals) hanging out for > everyone to see, and then having some random stranger on the street > five hours later tell you what your friend should have told you > earlier. You're equating top-posting to an undone fly? Excuse me, take a look at the real world sometime. It's more like telling your friend at the beach that his necktie is knotted unsymmetrically. Rahul From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 30 12:42:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D4516A4CE; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:42:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE95943D54; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:42:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i7UCgXVT046188; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 08:42:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040830122440.GA2327@online.fr> References: <20040819134840.GA3104@online.fr> <20040822015558.GO92256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040827114038.GA2453@online.fr> <1093789942.4131e8f6b486a@imp1-q.free.fr> <20040830051243.GA976@online.fr> <20040830105847.GA2108@online.fr> <20040830122440.GA2327@online.fr> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:42:51 +0200 To: Rahul Siddharthan From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why top-posting is bad X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:42:37 -0000 At 5:54 PM +0530 2004-08-30, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > You're equating top-posting to an undone fly? Excuse me, take a look > at the real world sometime. It's more like telling your friend at the > beach that his necktie is knotted unsymmetrically. I notice how you conveniently snip the part where I have dissected your argument and shown it to be fundamentally fallacious, and now rail on about how you perceive top posting to be a benign thing. Interesting argument technique you've got there. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 30 12:50:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 190F016A4CF for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:50:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF66443D5D for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:50:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from xeon (xeon.unixathome.org [192.168.0.18]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C253D40 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 08:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 08:50:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Langille X-X-Sender: dan@xeon.unixathome.org To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040830084903.T41838@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <20040819134840.GA3104@online.fr> <20040822015558.GO92256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20040827114038.GA2453@online.fr> <20040830051243.GA976@online.fr> <20040830105847.GA2108@online.fr> <20040830122440.GA2327@online.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Why top-posting is bad X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:50:50 -0000 On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 5:54 PM +0530 2004-08-30, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > You're equating top-posting to an undone fly? Excuse me, take a look > > at the real world sometime. It's more like telling your friend at the > > beach that his necktie is knotted unsymmetrically. > > I notice how you conveniently snip the part where I have > dissected your argument and shown it to be fundamentally fallacious, > and now rail on about how you perceive top posting to be a benign > thing. Little new has been introduced in this thread lately. I suggest letting go. -- Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 31 08:16:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA5716A4CE for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:16:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97E8243D2D for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:16:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i7V8Fe5O009586; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 04:15:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20040830.223021.70219797.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <20040830192316.6B6CD12351@shub-internet.kew.com><56850.10938943 70@critter.freebsd.dk> <20040830.223021.70219797.imp@bsdimp.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:09:54 +0200 To: "M. Warner Losh" From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PCI SIO devices hog interrupts, cause lock order problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:16:02 -0000 At 10:30 PM -0600 2004-08-30, M. Warner Losh wrote: > : This could be vastly improved if the data structure puc uses were > : more intelligent. Man cards could be described simply by their > : PCI ID and "fill resource #1 with sio ports" rather than the very > : space consuming and errorprone stuff we do now. > > The stuff we do now is trying to be too smart. Most single port cards > are like phk says, but multiport is where things really go wonkies... Go wonkies?!? OMG ROTFLMAOTIPMTU!!! I think this *has* to qualify as the funniest thing I have ever heard you say or seen you type! -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 31 16:48:45 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4532D16A4CE for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:48:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5C4943D55 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:48:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from [69.27.131.0] ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:52:20 -0500 Message-ID: <4134ABE8.7030602@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:48:40 -0500 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040712 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brad Knowles References: <20040830192316.6B6CD12351@shub-internet.kew.com><56850.10938943 70@critter.freebsd.dk> <20040830.223021.70219797.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Aug 2004 16:52:21.0446 (UTC) FILETIME=[E20C5E60:01C48F7A] cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: "M. Warner Losh" Subject: Re: PCI SIO devices hog interrupts, cause lock order problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:48:45 -0000 Brad Knowles wrote: > At 10:30 PM -0600 2004-08-30, M. Warner Losh wrote: > >> The stuff we do now is trying to be too smart. Most single port cards >> are like phk says, but multiport is where things really go wonkies... > > > Go wonkies?!? OMG ROTFLMAOTIPMTU!!! Umm, nice; but his context beats yours. "wonkies" is easier than this acronym, which Google can't touch. Not that I've no clue at all ... but do you really eat tofu? Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 31 18:38:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5243716A4CE for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:38:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 098BE43D2D for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:38:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i7VIc21l044794; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:38:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4134ABE8.7030602@daleco.biz> References: <20040830192316.6B6CD12351@shub-internet.kew.com><56850.10938943 70@critter.freebsd.dk> <20040830.223021.70219797.imp@bsdimp.com> <4134ABE8.7030602@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:21:14 +0200 To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI SIO devices hog interrupts, cause lock order problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:38:22 -0000 At 11:48 AM -0500 2004-08-31, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: >> Go wonkies?!? OMG ROTFLMAOTIPMTU!!! > > Umm, nice; but his context beats yours. "wonkies" is easier > than this acronym, which Google can't touch. The first two I'm sure you're familiar with, but perhaps not the third: OMG = Oh My G*d ROTFLMAO = Rolling On The Floor, Laughing My A$$ Off TIPMTU = 'Till I Puke My Toenails Up I've said this on more than a few public mailing lists, so I'm really surprised that Google didn't find it. I mean, it's trivially easy to find a FAQ I wrote back in 1991 regarding stiction (or sticktion, I don't remember how I spelled it) in hard drives. It's been many, many years since I wrote that, and I certainly don't recall knowing that I'd be posting it to a mailing list that would be publicly archived forever. Besides, I wasn't commenting on his context. I was commenting on what it was that I'd actually seen him say/type. I don't recall anyone on any public mailing list I've ever been on saying that same word (I've seen "wonky" before, but not "wonkies"), although I might have heard people say something comparable when they've had quite a bit too much to drink and are being very much sillier than they normally are -- and I hang out with some people who can be extraordinarily silly even when they're sober. I just thought it was extremely funny to see/hear Warner say that, and felt that I had to comment on it -- albeit to chat@, which no one ever reads or pays any attention to. > Not that I've > no clue at all ... but do you really eat tofu? On rare occasion, yes. Usually in ground form, as a replacement for ground beef, or to augment ground beef. Now, where did you get the idea for Tofu? -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 31 19:16:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAD0016A4CE for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:16:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from regina.plastikos.com (plastikos.com [69.38.58.89]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B8D543D54 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:16:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-222-87-93.jan.bellsouth.net [68.222.87.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by regina.plastikos.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D40046EF1A; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:16:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 0FDC320F83; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:16:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:16:44 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Brad Knowles Message-ID: <20040831191644.GH53236@over-yonder.net> References: <20040830.223021.70219797.imp@bsdimp.com> <4134ABE8.7030602@daleco.biz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i-fullermd.2 cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI SIO devices hog interrupts, cause lock order problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:16:49 -0000 On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 08:21:14PM +0200 I heard the voice of Brad Knowles, and lo! it spake thus: > > The first two I'm sure you're familiar with, but perhaps not the > third: > > OMG = Oh My G*d > ROTFLMAO = Rolling On The Floor, Laughing My A$$ Off > TIPMTU = 'Till I Puke My Toenails Up Ah! I was wondering what I could make with 'TU' after "'Till I Piss Myself"... -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 31 20:19:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 501D216A4CE for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:19:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 156F143D58 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:19:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from [69.27.131.0] ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:22:44 -0500 Message-ID: <4134DD38.2030000@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:19:04 -0500 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040712 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brad Knowles References: <20040830192316.6B6CD12351@shub-internet.kew.com><56850.10938943 70@critter.freebsd.dk> <20040830.223021.70219797.imp@bsdimp.com> <4134ABE8.7030602@daleco.biz> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Aug 2004 20:22:44.0883 (UTC) FILETIME=[4633FE30:01C48F98] cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI SIO devices hog interrupts, cause lock order problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:19:07 -0000 Brad Knowles wrote: > At 11:48 AM -0500 2004-08-31, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > >>> Go wonkies?!? OMG ROTFLMAOTIPMTU!!! >> >> >> Umm, nice; but his context beats yours. "wonkies" is easier >> than this acronym, which Google can't touch. > > > The first two I'm sure you're familiar with, but perhaps not the > third: > > OMG = Oh My G*d > ROTFLMAO = Rolling On The Floor, Laughing My A$$ Off > TIPMTU = 'Till I Puke My Toenails Up > > I came real close, then. >> Not that I've no clue at all ... but do you really eat tofu? > > > On rare occasion, yes. Usually in ground form, as a replacement > for ground beef, or to augment ground beef. > > Now, where did you get the idea for Tofu? > I missed "Toenails" ;-) Kevin Kinsey From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 31 21:40:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F039716A581; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:40:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mxout4.cac.washington.edu (mxout4.cac.washington.edu [140.142.33.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3EC943D48; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:40:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dsyphers@u.washington.edu) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.33.9]) ESMTP id i7VLePTB016162; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:40:25 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-24-18-235-11.client.comcast.net [24.18.235.11]) (authenticated bits=0)i7VLeOVe027488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:40:24 -0700 From: David Syphers To: Mike Hunter Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 14:40:35 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <20040829213449.GA33843@hub.freebsd.org> <20040831205243.GJ53236@over-yonder.net> <20040831211834.GA16465@ack.Berkeley.EDU> In-Reply-To: <20040831211834.GA16465@ack.Berkeley.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200408311440.35836.dsyphers@u.washington.edu> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: suggestion for /usr/src/UPDATING X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:40:26 -0000 On Tuesday 31 August 2004 02:18 pm, Mike Hunter wrote: > * Nerves from the brain cross over at neck-level to the opposite side of > the * body, and nerves from the other side of the brain reciprocate. The > end * result is that the opposite sides of the body are supplied by the > opposite * sides of the brain. > > So it's deceptive to think that using the left hand would correspond to > the *idea* of something on the left. Is there any reason to think that the idea of "left" is dealt with by the left side of the brain? Sounds highly unlikely to me. You certainly don't think of "front" only with the prefrontal cortex, or "back" only with the occipital lobe. Apart from the one guy who gave a patch, this has been a very entertaining (if useless) thread :) -David -- +++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot. +++ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 31 23:20:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B34316A4CE for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:20:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail2.mdx.safepages.com (mail2.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3166843D49 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:20:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phummers@iname.com) Received: by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id B6ACD1D1261; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:20:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [67.201.192.75] (1Cust75.tnt14.tco2.da.uu.net [67.201.192.75]) by mail2.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A397C1D1176 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:19:59 +0000 (GMT) X-Sender: phummers:iname.com#iname.com@pop1.mail.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200408311440.35836.dsyphers@u.washington.edu> References: <20040831211834.GA16465@ack.Berkeley.EDU> <20040829213449.GA33843@hub.freebsd.org> <20040831205243.GJ53236@over-yonder.net> <20040831211834.GA16465@ack.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:19:54 -0400 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Peter Hummers Subject: Left-handed mousing X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:20:00 -0000 >On Tuesday 31 August 2004 02:18 pm, Mike Hunter wrote: >> So it's deceptive to think that using the left hand would correspond to >> the *idea* of something on the left. > >Is there any reason to think that the idea of "left" is dealt with by the >left >side of the brain? Sounds highly unlikely to me. You certainly don't think of >"front" only with the prefrontal cortex, or "back" only with the occipital >lobe. > >Apart from the one guy who gave a patch, this has been a very entertaining >(if >useless) thread :) Have many of you right-handers have tried left-hand mousing? It's quite efficient; look at your keyboard. The extra keys are on the right. It's not hard at all, either. PS: Forgive the post from the old Mac; I can't get my FreeBSD laptop to reliably sync my Visor. (And that's a matter for a different list.) -Peter Hummers [O] |=|__o //Sent from a Classic Mac// From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 31 23:48:51 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1394B16A4CE for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:48:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF2F843D48 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:48:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from xeon (xeon.unixathome.org [192.168.0.18]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B15A3D40; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:48:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Langille X-X-Sender: dan@xeon.unixathome.org To: Peter Hummers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040831194805.H11560@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <20040831211834.GA16465@ack.Berkeley.EDU> <20040829213449.GA33843@hub.freebsd.org> <20040831211834.GA16465@ack.Berkeley.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Left-handed mousing X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:48:51 -0000 On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, Peter Hummers wrote: > >On Tuesday 31 August 2004 02:18 pm, Mike Hunter wrote: > >> So it's deceptive to think that using the left hand would correspond to > >> the *idea* of something on the left. > > > >Is there any reason to think that the idea of "left" is dealt with by the > >left > >side of the brain? Sounds highly unlikely to me. You certainly don't think of > >"front" only with the prefrontal cortex, or "back" only with the occipital > >lobe. > > > >Apart from the one guy who gave a patch, this has been a very entertaining > >(if > >useless) thread :) > > Have many of you right-handers have tried left-hand mousing? It's quite > efficient; look at your keyboard. The extra keys are on the right. It's not > hard at all, either. I moved to left hand mousing about 9 years ago when my right hand because overused. Doom had nothing to do with it. Not at all. No, it'd didn't. -- Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 31 23:49:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F8B16A4CE for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:49:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mxout2.cac.washington.edu (mxout2.cac.washington.edu [140.142.33.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D24743D2F for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:49:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dsyphers@u.washington.edu) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.32.139]) ESMTP id i7VNnsPu004344; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:49:54 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.104] (c-24-18-235-11.client.comcast.net [24.18.235.11]) (authenticated bits=0)i7VNnsqN010296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:49:54 -0700 From: David Syphers To: Dan MacMillan Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:50:05 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200408311650.05747.dsyphers@u.washington.edu> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: suggestion for /usr/src/UPDATING X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:49:55 -0000 On Tuesday 31 August 2004 04:25 pm, Dan MacMillan wrote: > I haven't read any of this thread except this message ... my comment is in > re: your tagline. It made me laugh so hard I nearly =crapped= cucumbers. > Thank you. It's the funniest thing I've seen all day. Glad you liked it. Unfortunately, I can't take credit - it's from _Hogfather_ by Terry Pratchett. But he's such an excellent humorist I don't mind giving him a plug. -David -- +++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot. +++ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 1 00:41:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55F016A4D0 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 00:41:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pd2mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F89E43D53 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 00:41:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from flowers@users.sourceforge.net) Received: from pd4mr7so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr7so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.84])2004))freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml7so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.151]) by pd4mr7so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I3C007WX3OB6BK0@pd4mr7so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sirius (S0106000c41b2b9a3.cg.shawcable.net [68.144.91.127]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with SMTP id <0I3C0022P3OBFQ@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:25:02 -0600 From: Dan MacMillan In-reply-to: <200408311440.35836.dsyphers@u.washington.edu> To: David Syphers Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: suggestion for /usr/src/UPDATING X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:41:55 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of David Syphers > Sent: August 31, 2004 15:41 > To: Mike Hunter > Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: suggestion for /usr/src/UPDATING > > > > -- > +++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please > Reinstall Universe And Reboot. +++ I haven't read any of this thread except this message ... my comment is in re: your tagline. It made me laugh so hard I nearly =crapped= cucumbers. Thank you. It's the funniest thing I've seen all day. -- Danny From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 1 01:14:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D71F16A4CE for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:14:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 149BB43D3F for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:14:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from leafy7382@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v30so32268rnb for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.1.62 with SMTP id 62mr267337rna; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.8.80 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:14:02 +0800 From: Jiawei Ye To: Dan Langille In-Reply-To: <20040831194805.H11560@xeon.unixathome.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20040831211834.GA16465@ack.Berkeley.EDU> <20040829213449.GA33843@hub.freebsd.org> <20040831211834.GA16465@ack.Berkeley.EDU> <20040831194805.H11560@xeon.unixathome.org> cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Peter Hummers Subject: Re: Left-handed mousing X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Jiawei Ye List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:14:03 -0000 On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:48:42 -0400 (EDT), Dan Langille wrote: > I moved to left hand mousing about 9 years ago when my right hand because > overused. Doom had nothing to do with it. Not at all. No, it'd didn't. > > -- > Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ I switch between my right and left hand for mousing every 2 months. It's better for the hands too. Jiawei From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 1 01:19:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E26C16A4CE for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:19:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49DD643D4C for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:19:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from xeon (xeon.unixathome.org [192.168.0.18]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2027C3D40; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:19:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:19:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Langille X-X-Sender: dan@xeon.unixathome.org To: Jiawei Ye In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040831211913.G11560@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <20040831211834.GA16465@ack.Berkeley.EDU> <20040829213449.GA33843@hub.freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: Peter Hummers Subject: Re: Left-handed mousing X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:19:41 -0000 On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Jiawei Ye wrote: > On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:48:42 -0400 (EDT), Dan Langille wrote: > > I moved to left hand mousing about 9 years ago when my right hand because > > overused. Doom had nothing to do with it. Not at all. No, it'd didn't. > > I switch between my right and left hand for mousing every 2 months. > It's better for the hands too. Now there's a cronjob just waiting to happen. -- Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 1 01:19:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A377816A50B for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:19:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web90004.mail.scd.yahoo.com (web90004.mail.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.94.62]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D32243D1D for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:19:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from yeweikeke-maillist@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040901011954.82463.qmail@web90004.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Received: from [218.4.149.25] by web90004.mail.scd.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:19:54 CST Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:19:54 +0800 (CST) From: To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: How to Play .APE and DTS CD on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: yeweikeke-maillist@yahoo.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:19:56 -0000 Hi, Anyone know how to play .APE and DTS CD on FreeBSD? ===== Regards, Ye Wei _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 150万曲MP3疯狂搜，带您闯入音乐殿堂 http://cn.rd.yahoo.com/mail_cn/tag/yisou/music/*http://music.yisou.com/ 美女明星应有尽有，搜遍美图、艳图和酷图 http://cn.rd.yahoo.com/mail_cn/tag/yisou/image/*http://image.yisou.com 1G就是1000兆，雅虎电邮自助扩容！ http://cn.rd.yahoo.com/mail_cn/tag/1g/*http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/event/mail_1g/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 1 01:27:32 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E2C616A4CE for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:27:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0365243D55 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 01:27:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from xeon (xeon.unixathome.org [192.168.0.18]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6621D3D40 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:27:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:27:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Langille X-X-Sender: dan@xeon.unixathome.org To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040831212015.D11560@xeon.unixathome.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: A RAID-ing I will go... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:27:32 -0000 I have two 3Ware 7006-2 cards (capable of RAID-1 on two IDE drives) and one Adaptec 2400A (RAID-5 on 4 IDE drives). At present, the 3Ware cards are in FreeBSD machines (ngaio and polo). The goal: move one 3Ware card to my Windows XP workstation and install the 2400A in its place. polo is my main development workstation. It has 80GB now and is at 37% capacity. After installing the 2400A with 4x80GB drives under RAID-5, I'll have 240GB of space (which may be more space than is currently used on my entire network). I plan to do this in two moves: ngaio is rarely used, I can live without it for some time. I will use the 3Ware controller from that. Then use a trial version of some disk cloning software to populate the array. I could use dd under FreeSBIE, which would be an interesting exercise. Once the NT controller is up and running, I'll install the 2400A in polo, dd everything over, adjust /etc/fstab, and see how things go. It can't be that simple... Any comments? One point about hardware RAID: it's nice to have a spare card around in case your controller fails.... I think I'll hunt down another 2400A.... -- Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 1 19:45:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8565216A4CE for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:45:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from w1.paulbunyan.net (w1.paulbunyan.net [209.191.199.134]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1334D43D5F for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:45:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joshua@joshualokken.com) Received: from slackey (er155.ips.paulbunyan.net [209.191.208.155]) by w1.paulbunyan.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i81JjWQA004027; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:45:32 -0500 From: "Joshua Lokken" To: "'David Syphers'" , "'Mike Hunter'" Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:45:31 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c4905c$3dd35eb0$56171aac@slackey> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200408311440.35836.dsyphers@u.washington.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: suggestion for /usr/src/UPDATING X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:45:48 -0000 David Syphers wrote: > On Tuesday 31 August 2004 02:18 pm, Mike Hunter wrote: >> * Nerves from the brain cross over at neck-level to the opposite side >> of the * body, and nerves from the other side of the brain >> reciprocate. The end * result is that the opposite sides of the body >> are supplied by the opposite * sides of the brain. >>=20 >> So it's deceptive to think that using the left hand would correspond >> to the *idea* of something on the left. >=20 > Is there any reason to think that the idea of "left" is dealt with by > the left side of the brain? Sounds highly unlikely to me. You > certainly don't think of "front" only with the prefrontal cortex, or > "back" only with the occipital lobe. Actually, it's the inverse; the left brain handles right-side operations, and vice versa. > Apart from the one guy who gave a patch, this has been a very > entertaining (if useless) thread :) Indeed ;) --=20 Joshua Lokken --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.749 / Virus Database: 501 - Release Date: 9/1/2004 =20 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 1 19:57:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0959B16A4CE for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:57:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ack.Berkeley.EDU (ack.berkeley.edu [128.32.206.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B519E43D54 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:57:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mhunter@ack.Berkeley.EDU) Received: (from mhunter@localhost) by ack.Berkeley.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) id i81JvZb14812; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:57:35 -0700 From: Mike Hunter To: Joshua Lokken Message-ID: <20040901195735.GA14677@ack.Berkeley.EDU> References: <200408311440.35836.dsyphers@u.washington.edu> <000001c4905c$3dd35eb0$56171aac@slackey> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000001c4905c$3dd35eb0$56171aac@slackey> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: 'David Syphers' cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: suggestion for /usr/src/UPDATING X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:57:41 -0000 On Sep 01, "Joshua Lokken" wrote: > David Syphers wrote: > > On Tuesday 31 August 2004 02:18 pm, Mike Hunter wrote: > >> * Nerves from the brain cross over at neck-level to the opposite side > >> of the * body, and nerves from the other side of the brain > >> reciprocate. The end * result is that the opposite sides of the body > >> are supplied by the opposite * sides of the brain. > >> > >> So it's deceptive to think that using the left hand would correspond > >> to the *idea* of something on the left. > > > > Is there any reason to think that the idea of "left" is dealt with by > > the left side of the brain? Sounds highly unlikely to me. You > > certainly don't think of "front" only with the prefrontal cortex, or > > "back" only with the occipital lobe. > > Actually, it's the inverse; the left brain handles right-side > operations, and vice versa. > > > Apart from the one guy who gave a patch, this has been a very > > entertaining (if useless) thread :) > > Indeed ;) I think people forgot to look at the "X-Troll-Content" header in my original mail :) Mike From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 1 20:40:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5452516A4CE for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 20:40:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.137]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D832043D46 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 20:40:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marc.ramirez@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (cpe-024-165-114-048.cinci.rr.com [24.165.114.48])i81KerVd021051 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:40:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i81KerAM018934 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:40:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mrami@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by www.bluecirclesoft.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i81Ker6c018933 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:40:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mrami) From: Marc Ramirez Organization: Blue Circle Software Corp. To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:40:28 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <000001c4905c$3dd35eb0$56171aac@slackey> In-Reply-To: <000001c4905c$3dd35eb0$56171aac@slackey> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200409011640.48944.marc.ramirez@bluecirclesoft.com> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Subject: Re: suggestion for /usr/src/UPDATING X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 20:40:57 -0000 =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 01 September 2004 03:45 pm, Joshua Lokken wrote: > David Syphers wrote: > > On Tuesday 31 August 2004 02:18 pm, Mike Hunter wrote: > >> * Nerves from the brain cross over at neck-level to the opposite side > >> of the * body, and nerves from the other side of the brain > >> reciprocate. The end * result is that the opposite sides of the body > >> are supplied by the opposite * sides of the brain. > >> > >> So it's deceptive to think that using the left hand would correspond > >> to the *idea* of something on the left. > > > > Is there any reason to think that the idea of "left" is dealt with by > > the left side of the brain? Sounds highly unlikely to me. You > > certainly don't think of "front" only with the prefrontal cortex, or > > "back" only with the occipital lobe. > > Actually, it's the inverse; the left brain handles right-side > operations, and vice versa. I think he was talking about which sides handle the concepts, and he has a= =20 point. Except that the concept of "grey wrinkly organs" is handled by a gr= ey=20 wrinkly organ... Never say never. "This statement is false" is true half= =20 the time. :) =2D --=20 Marc Ramirez Blue Circle Software Corporation 513-688-1070 (main) 513-382-1270 (direct) http://www.bluecirclesoft.com http://www.mrami.com (personal) =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBNjPGg1EgpGw750IRAgZ9AKDLU9iacku6aZ/6ZN88tfHxG0cymwCfZsqI JfMO2c9InBy7lIkpDtwQZAM=3D =3DSL6J =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 1 21:34:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F229316A4CE for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:34:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from regina.plastikos.com (plastikos.com [69.38.58.89]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D041E43D45 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:34:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-222-87-93.jan.bellsouth.net [68.222.87.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by regina.plastikos.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347B46EF21; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 17:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id A0AE120F7E; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:34:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 16:34:21 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Marc Ramirez Message-ID: <20040901213421.GO53236@over-yonder.net> References: <000001c4905c$3dd35eb0$56171aac@slackey> <200409011640.48944.marc.ramirez@bluecirclesoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200409011640.48944.marc.ramirez@bluecirclesoft.com> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i-fullermd.2 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: suggestion for /usr/src/UPDATING X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 21:34:24 -0000 On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 04:40:28PM -0400 I heard the voice of Marc Ramirez, and lo! it spake thus: > > "This statement is false" is true half the time. :) Actually, it's true all the time (as well as being false all the time), since you can model its veracity as a pair of entwined virtual particles, one being truth and one falsehood (sadly, there's no room in this absurdity for beauty, strangely enough. But that's the charm of it). It's only when you ask which it is that the problem resolves 8-} -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 2 02:52:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8381216A4CE for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 02:52:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AAA943D1F for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 02:52:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marc.ramirez@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (cpe-024-165-114-048.cinci.rr.com [24.165.114.48])i822qpIZ016053 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:52:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.bluecirclesoft.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i822qo7o019427 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:52:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mrami@bluecirclesoft.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by www.bluecirclesoft.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i822qotF019426 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:52:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mrami) From: Marc Ramirez Organization: Blue Circle Software Corp. To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 22:52:44 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <000001c4905c$3dd35eb0$56171aac@slackey> <200409011640.48944.marc.ramirez@bluecirclesoft.com> <20040901213421.GO53236@over-yonder.net> In-Reply-To: <20040901213421.GO53236@over-yonder.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200409012252.48090.marc.ramirez@bluecirclesoft.com> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Subject: Re: suggestion for /usr/src/UPDATING X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 02:52:54 -0000 =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 01 September 2004 05:34 pm, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 04:40:28PM -0400 I heard the voice of Marc Ramire= z,=20 and lo! it spake thus: > > "This statement is false" is true half the time. :) > > Actually, it's true all the time (as well as being false all the > time), since you can model its veracity as a pair of entwined virtual > particles, one being truth and one falsehood (sadly, there's no room > in this absurdity for beauty, strangely enough. But that's the charm > of it). It's only when you ask which it is that the problem resolves > 8-} I guess I should act like a good Bhuddist and say "yes" and nod "no"....=20 Hmm.... more coffee required.... ;) Marc. =2D --=20 Marc Ramirez Blue Circle Software Corporation 513-688-1070 (main) 513-382-1270 (direct) http://www.bluecirclesoft.com http://www.mrami.com (personal) =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBNor8g1EgpGw750IRAg2/AKCnlSq3IfXY6lO3h/L5dZRb8pDTnwCePvZK VEBYIORAWQe/uoZ5mOBlfwI=3D =3DDaoZ =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 3 03:31:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ACE016A4CE for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 03:31:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF38043D49 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 03:31:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from aerial_gus@prokyon.com) Received: from sarah2k ([69.164.85.247]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with SMTP id <20040903033132.MBXV2583.mta9.adelphia.net@sarah2k>; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 23:31:32 -0400 Message-ID: <011c01c49166$77b0e570$0601a8c0@sarah2k> From: "aerial_gus" To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , "Brad Knowles" References: Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 23:31:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PCI SIO devices hog interrupts, cause lock order problems X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 03:31:34 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Knowles" To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 2:21 PM Subject: Re: PCI SIO devices hog interrupts, cause lock order problems > At 11:48 AM -0500 2004-08-31, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > > >> Go wonkies?!? OMG ROTFLMAOTIPMTU!!! > > > > Umm, nice; but his context beats yours. "wonkies" is easier > > than this acronym, which Google can't touch. > > The first two I'm sure you're familiar with, but perhaps not the third: > > OMG = Oh My G*d > ROTFLMAO = Rolling On The Floor, Laughing My A$$ Off > TIPMTU = 'Till I Puke My Toenails Up > out of nowhere.... I knew, I saw the last post, I just knew, I saw, that multiLA? it had "puke" in it...