From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 15 14:19:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AC1F16A4CE for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:19:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1257943D54 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:19:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 742953D37 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:19:04 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:19:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <41C00188.22447.D101C8D5@localhost> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.21c) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: looking for Matthew Seaman X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:19:05 -0000 Has anyone been in contact with Matthew Seaman lately? His email started bouncing a few weeks ago and I've been unable to get in touch with him through his infracaninophile.co.uk address. Cheers -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 15 16:50:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19A616A4CE for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:50:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CB7043D2F for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:50:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from [69.27.131.0] ([69.27.131.0]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:50:31 -0600 Message-ID: <41C06B66.6070809@daleco.biz> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:50:46 -0600 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20041210 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Langille References: <41C00188.22447.D101C8D5@localhost> In-Reply-To: <41C00188.22447.D101C8D5@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Dec 2004 16:50:31.0646 (UTC) FILETIME=[3063B7E0:01C4E2C6] cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: looking for Matthew Seaman X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:50:30 -0000 Dan Langille wrote: >Has anyone been in contact with Matthew Seaman lately? His email >started bouncing a few weeks ago and I've been unable to get in touch >with him through his infracaninophile.co.uk address. > >Cheers > > I notice a gap in postings, but he posted in the "re: cpu temperature" thread on questions@ about one hour ago AFAICT. A telnet connection to port 25 on the only MX record for his domain seems to succeed, so maybe try once more? HTH, Kevin Kinsey From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 15 17:01:27 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA0116A4CE for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:01:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from male.aldigital.co.uk (male.thebunker.net [213.129.64.13]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C221A43D3F for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:01:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from gravitas.thebunker.net (gateway.ash.thebunker.net [213.129.64.4]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by male.aldigital.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC997977E0; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:01:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])iBFH1M2T027642; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:01:24 GMT (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Message-ID: <41C06DDC.3060004@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:01:16 +0000 From: Matthew Seaman Organization: Infracaninophile User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041213) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." References: <41C00188.22447.D101C8D5@localhost> <41C06B66.6070809@daleco.biz> In-Reply-To: <41C06B66.6070809@daleco.biz> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig96B973225241B1A9C9D63E4E" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: looking for Matthew Seaman X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:01:27 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig96B973225241B1A9C9D63E4E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wrote: > Dan Langille wrote: > >> Has anyone been in contact with Matthew Seaman lately? His email >> started bouncing a few weeks ago and I've been unable to get in touch >> with him through his infracaninophile.co.uk address. >> >> Cheers >> >> > > I notice a gap in postings, but he posted in the > "re: cpu temperature" thread on questions@ > about one hour ago AFAICT. > > A telnet connection to port 25 on the only MX > record for his domain seems to succeed, so > maybe try once more? Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated. I've merely got a new job, moved to a new part of the country and had a very disappointing experience with British Telecom. BTW. The best MX record for my domain is now being pointed my ISP's mail server; not my kit at all. Poking at it won't tell you much about my status... Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 8 Dane Court Manor School Rd PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Tilmanstone Tel: +44 1304 617253 Kent, CT14 0JL UK --------------enig96B973225241B1A9C9D63E4E Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQCVAwUBQcBt4pr7OpndfbmCAQLm7AP+IzIweEJzgg3Proiz6qri4qKoeXWx+NMN otoZBAKPO3nndaDziwsTm8sSgfWpcNfMXDHSzu/l4jJYEqmj0fffbTHab5K1rwZ9 XqwQ2seyZM39o3276LSl10dHgLOgXaTdmGjaQ3PlemV4x/xeTZIHJ45m22D88qWV SU0GFP9g6i8= =BCyG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig96B973225241B1A9C9D63E4E-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 01:58:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 872BF16A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 01:58:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web50303.mail.yahoo.com (web50303.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0470643D60 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 01:58:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from murcielako@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 11445 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Dec 2004 01:58:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.116.131.252] by web50303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:58:53 CST Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:58:53 -0600 (CST) From: "Jorge Mario G." To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 01:58:54 -0000 Hi guys well just a ramdom thought latelaly a lot of GPLed apps have been re-written to BSD equivalents. (Free/Net/Open)BSD have all worked on this, but there seems to be no cooperation among us (them) it would be nice if we could integrate all the re-written parts, or at least the FreeBSD project could do it. so that way we would reduce the GPL code in the system shouldnt be there an iniciative to do this? P.S.: I'm doing what I can to make this happen _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Información de Estados Unidos y América Latina, en Yahoo! Noticias. Visítanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 02:18:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC9916A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:18:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ganymede.hub.org (blk-222-46-91.eastlink.ca [24.222.46.91]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF56E43D41 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:18:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 013154624F; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:18:15 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1D8A46213; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:18:15 -0400 (AST) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:18:15 -0400 (AST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: "Jorge Mario G." In-Reply-To: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041217221713.G1045@ganymede.hub.org> References: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1611122974-1103336295=:1045" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:18:16 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1611122974-1103336295=:1045 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE For example ... ? Is there a list of apps being maintained, and, maybe,=20 reasons why they haven't been adopted? I recall this conversation happening before, over ... grep? ... and there= =20 were alot of things missing from it that the GNU version had, which was=20 why it wasn't considered suitable yet to be adopted ... On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Jorge Mario G. wrote: > Hi guys > well just a ramdom thought > latelaly a lot of GPLed apps have been re-written to > BSD equivalents. > (Free/Net/Open)BSD have all worked on this, but there > seems to be no cooperation among us (them) > it would be nice if we could integrate all the > re-written parts, or at least the FreeBSD project > could do it. so that way we would reduce the GPL code > in the system > shouldnt be there an iniciative to do this? > > P.S.: I'm doing what I can to make this happen > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Informaci=F3n de Estados Unidos y Am=E9rica Latina, en Yahoo! Noticias. > Vis=EDtanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 --0-1611122974-1103336295=:1045-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 06:27:53 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B4A16A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 06:27:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8632B43D49 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 06:27:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1CfY45-00024q-00; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:27:41 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:27:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: "Jorge Mario G." In-Reply-To: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 06:27:53 -0000 On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Jorge Mario G. wrote: > it would be nice if we could integrate all the > re-written parts, or at least the FreeBSD project > could do it. so that way we would reduce the GPL code > in the system > shouldnt be there an iniciative to do this? > > P.S.: I'm doing what I can to make this happen Make a up-to-date list of what software is needed and how well it is working. I'll start your list: bc/dc -- I hear that OpenBSD is working on this, but also a NetBSD developer (who also wrote a lot or maintained the GNU equivalents) has BSD-licensed versions too. {g,n,t}roff -- I think I heard that someone is using an old BSD licensed version dating back to early 1990's and before. I have used cawf (for almost a year) with some custom macros, but it needs a lot of work. cc and c++ -- two tendra projects; seems like they should join back together? as (assembler) and ld (linker) gcc related libraries sendmail replacement -- my outbound mailout has been in use for a few years, but needs a lot of work. binutils gdb gprof? rcs? Some things already done (but not necessarily used yet): cpio, diff?, patch?, grep, gzip, sort, tar, dialog, gettext, bc/dc. Jeremy C. Reed open source, Unix, *BSD, Linux training http://www.pugetsoundtechnology.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 10:36:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECB3416A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:36:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sentry.ucr.edu (sentry.ucr.edu [138.23.226.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77E643D1D for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:36:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from beyert@cs.ucr.edu) Received: from localhost (c-24-130-226-184.we.client2.attbi.com [24.130.226.184]) by sentry.ucr.edu (MOS 3.5.6-GR) with ESMTP id BRO39252 (AUTH tbeye001); Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:36:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:38:26 -0800 From: Timothy Beyer To: "Jorge Mario G." Message-ID: <20041218103825.GA420@aeonserv.aeonnet> References: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Mutt/1.5.6i (ncurses 5.1; FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE i386) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i (ncurses 5.1; FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE i386) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:36:53 -0000 On Fri, Dec 17, 2004 at 07:58:53PM -0600, Jorge Mario G. wrote: re-written parts, or at least the FreeBSD project > so that way we would reduce the GPL code > in the system > shouldnt be there an initiative to do this? I agree with this, however idealistic (or ideological if you will) this might seem. The project of eventually attaining license purity should be divided (roughly) into 2 areas: 1) replace GPL'd userland utilities, (there are still quite a few, and it isn't always obvious because of BSD modifications on the gnu versions) This isn't nearly as easy as it's often made out to be, but I think this might be possible in the next few years 2) significantly improve Tendra C compiler (or any equivalent, non-proprietary, non-copylefted compiler) for base system. Should produce optimized code and should be fairly platform independent. I have heard the most objections to replacing gcc, and although the reasons are perfectly rational, it is simply hypocritical for the BSD community to forever rely on a GPL or proprietary licensed compiler. In my view, it was somewhat of a mistake to rely on gcc in the first place. In the present situation, there are no alternatives to gcc, even in many proprietary situations. A competitive BSD licensed compiler could change this situation. It's going to take years of work to get a worthwhile BSD-licensed C compiler, but I think the effort would be worth it. Desktop projects will probably always use gcc, (but then again those are probably GPL'd anyway) but the base system should have a native BSD compiler. In the long term, there might be some compelling advantages to this approach as well. Namely: 1) Fixes made by various BSD projects are not just "forks" of gcc 2) Compiler won't just be specialized for Linux and most importantly 3) The BSD community will grow larger to accommodate the development. More projects means more developers, and more developers means more attention. And to everyone who says this project is "impossible," or a "waste of time," how was it that Richard Stallman was able to get gcc usable practically by himself (perhaps through the efforts of Cygnus, but I think they came in later) in just a few years? Some might say that gcc, like GNU/Linux, was a "fluke" project, but I would disagree. It had a steady stream of development during its infant years, and this made a tremendous difference. If only I could say the same for Tendra. Finally, to those who believe that licensing is irrelevant, (I obviously disagree here) why exactly are you using BSD, much less free software in the first place? Licenses are important, they just don't seem relevant for the most part to developers who are trying to get real work done. --Tim From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 15:07:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71FA016A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:07:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B9CC43D55 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:07:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iBIF6uc9074998; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:07:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 16:01:48 +0100 To: "Jeremy C. Reed" From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: "Jorge Mario G." cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:07:07 -0000 At 10:27 PM -0800 2004-12-17, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > sendmail replacement -- my outbound mailout has been in use for a few > years, but needs a lot of work. Why does sendmail need to be replaced? It already has a BSD-style license, from the days when it first came out -- at Berkeley. Okay, maybe you don't like sendmail, but that's a different matter. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 15:07:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D04F16A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:07:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF5143D31 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:07:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iBIF6ucB074998; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:07:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brad@stop.mail-abuse.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20041218103825.GA420@aeonserv.aeonnet> References: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> <20041218103825.GA420@aeonserv.aeonnet> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 16:02:37 +0100 To: Timothy Beyer From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" cc: "Jorge Mario G." cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:07:11 -0000 At 2:38 AM -0800 2004-12-18, Timothy Beyer wrote: > 2) significantly improve Tendra C compiler (or any equivalent, > non-proprietary, non-copylefted compiler) for base system. Should > produce optimized code and should be fairly platform independent. Does that work for UltraSPARC, Alpha, AMD64, and all the other platforms we need to support? -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 20:56:46 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4730216A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:56:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sentry.ucr.edu (sentry.ucr.edu [138.23.226.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0370743D2D for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:56:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from beyert@cs.ucr.edu) Received: from localhost (c-24-130-226-184.we.client2.attbi.com [24.130.226.184]) by sentry.ucr.edu (MOS 3.5.6-GR) with ESMTP id BRP11267 (AUTH tbeye001); Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:56:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:58:24 -0800 From: Timothy Beyer To: Brad Knowles Message-ID: <20041218205824.GB420@aeonserv.aeonnet> References: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> <20041218103825.GA420@aeonserv.aeonnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Mutt/1.5.6i (ncurses 5.1; FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE i386) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i (ncurses 5.1; FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE i386) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:56:46 -0000 On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 04:02:37PM +0100, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 2:38 AM -0800 2004-12-18, Timothy Beyer wrote: > > > 2) significantly improve Tendra C compiler (or any equivalent, > > non-proprietary, non-copylefted compiler) for base system. Should > > produce optimized code and should be fairly platform independent. > > Does that work for UltraSPARC, Alpha, AMD64, and all the other > platforms we need to support? Probably not, (I'm not sure) but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't support multiple architectures if it doesn't already... From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 21:13:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2A716A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:13:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (CPE0050040655c8-CM00111ae02aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.194.102.143]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B563543D55 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:13:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 18BC8511CE; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 13:13:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 13:13:42 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Timothy Beyer Message-ID: <20041218211341.GB6483@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> <20041218103825.GA420@aeonserv.aeonnet> <20041218205824.GB420@aeonserv.aeonnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="XF85m9dhOBO43t/C" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041218205824.GB420@aeonserv.aeonnet> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:13:43 -0000 --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 12:58:24PM -0800, Timothy Beyer wrote: > On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 04:02:37PM +0100, Brad Knowles wrote: > > At 2:38 AM -0800 2004-12-18, Timothy Beyer wrote: > >=20 > > > 2) significantly improve Tendra C compiler (or any equivalent, > > > non-proprietary, non-copylefted compiler) for base system. Should > > > produce optimized code and should be fairly platform independent. > >=20 > > Does that work for UltraSPARC, Alpha, AMD64, and all the other=20 > > platforms we need to support? >=20 > Probably not, (I'm not sure) but I don't see any reason why it > shouldn't support multiple architectures if it doesn't already... Great, let us know when it's ready! Kris --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBxJ2FWry0BWjoQKURApVfAKD77ScuhYZXYgeSsOqhsLs7STVyaACg+8LH TLA94ZARkcXbvSYRHVc8xLM= =uxyQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 22:08:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D70516A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 22:08:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sentinel.ucr.edu (sentinel.ucr.edu [138.23.226.228]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB2CD43D3F for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 22:08:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from beyert@cs.ucr.edu) Received: from localhost (c-24-130-226-184.we.client2.attbi.com [24.130.226.184]) by sentinel.ucr.edu (MOS 3.5.6-GR) with ESMTP id BRT12685 (AUTH tbeye001); Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:08:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:10:17 -0800 From: Timothy Beyer To: Timothy Beyer Message-ID: <20041218221017.GD420@aeonserv.aeonnet> References: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> <20041218103825.GA420@aeonserv.aeonnet> <20041218205824.GB420@aeonserv.aeonnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041218205824.GB420@aeonserv.aeonnet> X-Mailer: Mutt/1.5.6i (ncurses 5.1; FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE i386) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i (ncurses 5.1; FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE i386) cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 22:08:36 -0000 On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 12:58:24PM -0800, Timothy Beyer wrote: > Probably not, (I'm not sure) but I don't see any reason why it > shouldn't support multiple architectures if it doesn't already... I was wrong, it is multi-architecture. http://www.tendra.org/faq.html#N1001F From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 23:11:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9FF916A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:11:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-in-04.arcor-online.net (mail-in-04.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.44]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7B8443D41 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:11:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (dsl-082-083-164-210.arcor-ip.net [82.83.164.210]) by mail-in-04.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B614DD5562 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:11:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.13.1/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iBINBPHq022286 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:11:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull@kemoauc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id iBINBPrk022285 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:11:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:11:24 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20041218015853.11444.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:11:28 -0000 Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > Some things already done (but not necessarily used yet): > > cpio, The tar, cpio, and pax utilities are basically the same program with a different command line interface. A new cpio could be based on libarchive. OpenBSD uses BSD pax in different personalities for all three programs, like 4.4BSD did. In practice, FreeBSD users appear to universally prefer tar, and cpio is a little regarded legacy command. > diff?, OpenBSD has a BSD-licensed implementation but it lacks features compared to GNU diff. Notably, there is no sdiff command. > patch?, OpenBSD has a non-GNU patch based on an older release. Care needs to be taken, because different versions of patch have (not so) subtle differences. > grep, OpenBSD has a BSD-licensed grep that is good enough, but doesn't perform as well as GNU grep. Also lacks all wide char support and the like. > gzip, This could be taken straight from OpenBSD. > sort, OpenBSD has a BSD sort, not sure where that is from. Again, it's lacking in the I18N area. > tar, FreeBSD has its own implementation now (bsdtar), based on libarchive. > dialog, Not a standard tool. The last time I checked, FreeBSD's version was rather different from the one shipped with some Linux distributions. > gettext, I'm under the impression that the CITRUS implementation is not a complete replacement for GNU gettext. > bc/dc. These could be taken straight from OpenBSD. If there are any deficiencies, Otto Moerbeek sure would like to hear. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 23:16:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 023E116A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:16:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-in-07.arcor-online.net (mail-in-07.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.47]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD25943D1F for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:16:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mailnull@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (dsl-082-083-164-210.arcor-ip.net [82.83.164.210]) by mail-in-07.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27A0FBDE5 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:16:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.13.1/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iBING8Aj022739 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:16:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull@kemoauc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id iBING8Bh022738 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:16:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mailnull) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:16:07 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:16:11 -0000 Brad Knowles wrote: > Why does sendmail need to be replaced? It already has a > BSD-style license, from the days when it first came out -- at > Berkeley. I suggest you read src/contrib/sendmail/LICENSE. Sendmail Inc. changed the license a while back to support their business model, and the result is not BSD-style any longer. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 23:34:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83FFF16A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:34:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web50302.mail.yahoo.com (web50302.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E237B43D41 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:34:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from murcielako@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 62769 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Dec 2004 23:34:05 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=BARHxUqcQ5PJ5lw1B5DI1eLVqvc1FpZl5pT7MdY2jG3UuSmWXMN9veNDunq+KoXIoaLuylHB9BmG0qU0/ZVfURM/26dSMQ1zqULr0NMmNIHf7zq4TundQXiQlxu8dhjrOGBleiFj6XGQ1m1gD8XTZTdrDHKhkYQMkIyW8TRtksE= ; Message-ID: <20041218233405.62765.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.116.131.252] by web50302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 17:34:05 CST Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 17:34:05 -0600 (CST) From: "Jorge Mario G." To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:34:06 -0000 --- Christian Weisgerber escribió: > Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > > > Some things already done (but not necessarily used > yet): > > > > cpio, > > The tar, cpio, and pax utilities are basically the > same program > with a different command line interface. A new cpio > could be based > on libarchive. OpenBSD uses BSD pax in different > personalities for > all three programs, like 4.4BSD did. > > In practice, FreeBSD users appear to universally > prefer tar, and > cpio is a little regarded legacy command. > > > diff?, > > OpenBSD has a BSD-licensed implementation but it > lacks features > compared to GNU diff. Notably, there is no sdiff > command. > > > patch?, > > OpenBSD has a non-GNU patch based on an older > release. Care needs > to be taken, because different versions of patch > have (not so) > subtle differences. > > > grep, > > OpenBSD has a BSD-licensed grep that is good enough, > but doesn't > perform as well as GNU grep. Also lacks all wide > char support and > the like. > > > gzip, > > This could be taken straight from OpenBSD. > > > sort, > > OpenBSD has a BSD sort, not sure where that is from. > Again, it's > lacking in the I18N area. > > > tar, > > FreeBSD has its own implementation now (bsdtar), > based on libarchive. > > > dialog, > > Not a standard tool. The last time I checked, > FreeBSD's version > was rather different from the one shipped with some > Linux distributions. > > > gettext, > > I'm under the impression that the CITRUS > implementation is not a > complete replacement for GNU gettext. > > > bc/dc. > > These could be taken straight from OpenBSD. If > there are any > deficiencies, Otto Moerbeek sure would like to hear. > > -- > Christian "naddy" Weisgerber > naddy@mips.inka.de I was about to send this same list also there is a BSD awk the OpenBSD dudes are working on OpenCVS so the BSD apps are out there and ready to use. THOSE APPS WORK In the first post I was not talking about stuff like gcc, just simple user land tools, that can be imported anytime. NOTE: 1. checking the OpenBSD's grep i saw this: Copyright (c) 1999 James Howard and Dag-Erling Coïdan Smørgrav. isnt he FreeBSD's des? so OpenBSD is using "his" grep but his team (freebsd) is not! 2. why not import OpenNTPD? it works too ------ what I was thinking was more a http://freebsd.org/gplfree kind of project. an initiative listining what has to be rewwriten, who is doing it blah blah. it could be like a point of cooperation among BSDs to do the same task P.S.: My C skills are not the best but sure I could start working on something (actually I'm doing it ===== _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Información de Estados Unidos y América Latina, en Yahoo! Noticias. Visítanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 18 23:38:51 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7801616A4CE for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:38:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (CPE0050040655c8-CM00111ae02aac.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.194.102.143]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420D443D2F for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:38:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9D635512B9; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:38:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:38:50 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: "Jorge Mario G." Message-ID: <20041218233850.GA46104@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20041218233405.62765.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20041218233405.62765.qmail@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eliminating GPL apps on FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 23:38:51 -0000 --YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Dec 18, 2004 at 05:34:05PM -0600, Jorge Mario G. wrote: > so the BSD apps are out there and ready to use. > THOSE APPS WORK Not in general, i.e. there are often significant missing features. FreeBSD people tend to not be so willing to sacrifice functionality for ideology. Kris --YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBxL+KWry0BWjoQKURApW1AKD+MiQz1+64Mgyca026VFereup/XwCg74sF vOQOrHaHvbAThZZEnC1o3Go= =+XQx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK--