From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 18 06:49:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21AA016A4CE for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 06:49:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from utopia.in.force-elite.com (force-elite.com [216.255.199.145]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DEB643D55 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 06:49:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from chip@force-elite.com) X-AuthUser: chip@force-elite.com Received: from [10.0.0.22] (10.0.0.22:34966)Server] ; Sat, 17 Jul 2004 23:49:47 -0700 From: Paul Querna To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 23:49:47 -0700 Message-Id: <1090133387.16090.45.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 1.5.90 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: KQueue and Threads? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 06:49:50 -0000 Hello, I have a question about using KQueue() in multi-threaded situations. A couple months ago I wrote the KQueue support for Apache2/APR. I am now investigating a pseudo Event/Worker MPM to better handle KeepAlive Requests. (support for KQueue in Apache is available in our CVS HEAD and via an experimental patch in the FreeBSD Ports... Feedback would be nice.) For my example, say I have two threads. Thread A is in a kevent() waiting for events to happen on a set of FDs. Thread B has an FD that it would like to add to the KQueue that Thread A is using. What is the best way to get that FD into the KQueue, avoiding as much context switching as possible? Is it possible for Thread B to just call kevent w/ EV_ADD and Thread A will get proper notifications from that FD in the changed KQueue? I know this is possible with Linux's sys_epoll() implementation. Other threads can just add FDs to the epoll, and the thread waiting in the epoll will get notified of any activity on those new FDs, just like the existing FDs. If this is not possible with KQueue, I guess the best alternative is to have a pipe in the Set that Thread A is waiting on. Other threads will add their FD to a Queue, and then write to this pipe. That will awaken thread A, which then can add any FDs to it's pollset. That is less than ideal on a very busy server. An alternative is to set the timeout in Thread A very low. Say every 1/10 of a second, it would timeout, and add any outstanding FDs to the KQueue. Opinions? Thanks, -Paul Querna From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 18 14:04:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7252C16A4CE for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:04:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from frodo.otenet.gr (frodo.otenet.gr [195.170.0.12]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88A9243D53 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:04:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from gothmog.gr (patr530-b180.otenet.gr [212.205.244.188]) by frodo.otenet.gr (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6IE4E3E030055; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 17:04:15 +0300 Received: from gothmog.gr (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.gr (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6IE49sL095015; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 17:04:09 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from giorgos@localhost) by gothmog.gr (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i6IDtfBW077890; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 16:55:41 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 16:55:41 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Jos? de Paula Message-ID: <20040718135541.GA28115@gothmog.gr> References: <5ef8c2f004071419517bdc9f3e@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5ef8c2f004071419517bdc9f3e@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:25:21 +0000 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] basic modelines for contrib/nvi X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:04:22 -0000 On 2004-07-14 23:51, Jos? de Paula wrote: > I hacked together this little patch to contrib/nvi to make it support > simple modelines. [snip] > + > + if (O_ISSET(sp, O_MODELINE)) { > + cmd = get_modeline(sp); > + if (cmd != NULL) > + if (ex_run_str(sp, "modeline", cmd, strlen(cmd), 0, 0)) > + return; > + } > + Just a minor comment. Nested if's like the second & third above look like a natural place to use && as in: if (O_ISSET(sp, O_MODELINE)) { cmd = get_modeline(sp); if (cmd != NULL && ex_run_str(sp, "modeline", cmd, strlen(cmd), 0, 0)) return; } Giorgos From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 18 21:46:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A087F16A4CE for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:46:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mproxy.gmail.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.242]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 92D8B43D54 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:46:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from espinafre@gmail.com) Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r62so637234cwc for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.11.119.3 with SMTP id r3mr246794cwc; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5ef8c2f0040718144648b49ff6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 18:46:34 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_de_Paula?= To: Giorgos Keramidas In-Reply-To: <20040718135541.GA28115@gothmog.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <5ef8c2f004071419517bdc9f3e@mail.gmail.com> <20040718135541.GA28115@gothmog.gr> cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] basic modelines for contrib/nvi X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:46:34 -0000 On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 16:55:41 +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2004-07-14 23:51, Jos? de Paula wrote: > > I hacked together this little patch to contrib/nvi to make it support > > simple modelines. [snip] > > > + > > + if (O_ISSET(sp, O_MODELINE)) { > > + cmd = get_modeline(sp); > > + if (cmd != NULL) > > + if (ex_run_str(sp, "modeline", cmd, strlen(cmd), 0, 0)) > > + return; > > + } > > + > > Just a minor comment. > > Nested if's like the second & third above look like a natural place to > use && as in: > > if (O_ISSET(sp, O_MODELINE)) { > cmd = get_modeline(sp); > if (cmd != NULL && > > > ex_run_str(sp, "modeline", cmd, strlen(cmd), 0, 0)) > return; > } > > Giorgos > A small overlook on my part, thanks for pointing it. So, what do you think about it, overall? This patch recognizes one and only one modeline, and runs it. Should we look for all possible modelines and run all of them? In this case, in what order should we check for them? And, concerning the security, what are the implications of this patch? I cannot see any obvious blunder, so if you find anyone please let me know. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 02:32:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869D716A4CE for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 02:32:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.village.org [168.103.84.182]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF3143D62 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 02:32:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6J2UcDB018734; Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:30:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:30:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20040718.203039.116906292.imp@bsdimp.com> To: esn@x123.info From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20040712142805.wvswgcwoss4g8808@www.x123.info> References: <20040710212822.GX41460@seven.alameda.net> <20040710.211039.82990024.imp@bsdimp.com> <20040712142805.wvswgcwoss4g8808@www.x123.info> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PS/2 and USB keyboard at the same time, where to start X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 02:32:20 -0000 In message: <20040712142805.wvswgcwoss4g8808@www.x123.info> "Sebastian Yepes F. [ESN]" writes: : : : > In message: <20040710212822.GX41460@seven.alameda.net> : > Ulf Zimmermann writes: : > : I want to try myself on kernel hacking again and a thing which peaked my : > : interest was some emails a few days ago about making the kernel use both : > : PS/2 and USB keyboards at the same time. My questions is can anyone point : > : me at the relevant pieces of the kernel I should study about trying myself : > : on this? : > : > There's already a keyboard mux in the kernel. You'll just need to : > make it max many to 1. : > : > Warner : : How is this setup, I don't see no MUX stuff on the files device.hints or kern : conf. : : can you please explain your self, thanks Sure. Sorry this has taken so long, but I've had too much chaos in my life lately. That has calmed down now, so I can answer... Look at src/sys/dev/kbd/kbd.c. this is the file that implements /dev/kbd*. The idea that has been kicked around would be to write a keymux keyboard_t driver. It would collect all the other kbd's and present one logical keyboard. It wouldn't be that hard to get that to work... The harder part might be making it attach before atkbd and/or ukbd, but even that might not be too horrible if it was reserved. If someone wants a specific keyboard, they can still do the kbdcontrol to get that specific keyboard. It is also desirable to be able to create keyboard groups, so keep an eye towards that, but if that is a big pita, don't worry about it. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 04:39:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0711216A4CE; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 04:39:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9349143D54; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 04:39:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6J4cbEM042745; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 00:38:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)i6J4cbO5042742; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 00:38:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 00:38:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Gleb Smirnoff In-Reply-To: <20040717122147.GC34801@cell.sick.ru> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: linker_load_module(NULL, "modname", ...) from thread with no user process X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 04:39:08 -0000 On Sat, 17 Jul 2004, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > there is problem when linker_load_module() is called from a kernel > thread with no associated user process, and it asks to load module by > name, not by filename. With such parameters it requires looking through > device.hints file. And vn_open() assumes that > ndp->ni_cnd->cn_thread->td_proc is valid. > > Any ideas how to solve this? Generally speaking, attempting to perform file I/O from an interrupt thread or software interrupt is a really bad idea. There are a number of reasons this is the case, not least that lookups and file operations occur in the context of a process with a root directory, current working directory, etc, and that a network swi or ithread doesn't have said context (and may execute before that's available). Also, stalling the netisr or an ithread on disk I/O seems to be a bad idea as well, not to mention the NFS root file system case. So the question would seem to be "Can we avoid it entirely?". I'm not quite sure what the answer here is, but most similar cases I know of involve an asynchronous upcall message to user space to load the module, or it being pushed from user space to kernel without an upcall. Vis., devd loading a module in response to a device event, etc. Adopting something more like that would help to avoid this situation. I've seen similar reports a couple of times in the past, and each time it worries me :-). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects robert@fledge.watson.org Principal Research Scientist, McAfee Research > > Here is a sample backtrace: > > #8 0xc06ba0b3 in trap (frame= > {tf_fs = -1946419176, tf_es = 2106261520, tf_ds = 607387664, tf_edi = -877233464, tf_esi = -1066365186, tf_ebp = -877234268, tf_isp = -877234312, tf_ebx = 2065, tf_edx = -877233504, tf_ecx = 0, tf_eax = -1051754144, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 0, tf_eip = -1068097648, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 66182, tf_esp = -1056682528, tf_ss = 0}) > at /usr/src/sys/i386/i386/trap.c:417 > #9 0xc0561f90 in _mtx_lock_flags (m=0x0, opts=0, > file=0xc0708efe "/usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_subr.c", line=2065) > at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_mutex.c:247 > #10 0xc05c989c in vref (vp=0x811) at /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_subr.c:2065 > #11 0xc05c2438 in namei (ndp=0xcbb67aa0) at /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_lookup.c:161 > #12 0xc05d4f63 in vn_open_cred (ndp=0xcbb67aa0, flagp=0xcbb6797c, cmode=0, > cred=0xc14eae80, fdidx=0) at /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_vnops.c:191 > #13 0xc05d4cf3 in vn_open (ndp=0x0, flagp=0x0, cmode=0, fdidx=0) > at /usr/src/sys/kern/vfs_vnops.c:91 > #14 0xc055ddc3 in linker_hints_lookup ( > path=0xc074d160 "/boot/kernel;/boot/kernel;/boot/modules", pathlen=12, > modname=0xcbb67b68 "ng_tee", modnamelen=6, verinfo=0x0) > at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_linker.c:1474 > #15 0xc055e2da in linker_search_module (modname=0xcbb67b68 "ng_tee", modnamelen=6, > verinfo=0x0) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_linker.c:1594 > #16 0xc055e49b in linker_load_module (kldname=0x0, modname=0xcbb67b68 "ng_tee", > parent=0x0, verinfo=0x0, lfpp=0xcbb67b64) > at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_linker.c:1683 > #17 0xc1b49aa6 in ng_make_node () from /boot/kernel/netgraph.ko > #18 0xc1b4bb61 in ng_mkpeer () from /boot/kernel/netgraph.ko > #19 0xc1b4d9b1 in ng_generic_msg () from /boot/kernel/netgraph.ko > #20 0xc1b4d615 in ng_apply_item () from /boot/kernel/netgraph.ko > #21 0xc1b4fa2b in ngintr () from /boot/kernel/netgraph.ko > #22 0xc05e236a in swi_net (dummy=0x0) at /usr/src/sys/net/netisr.c:255 > #23 0xc0554d22 in ithread_loop (arg=0xc14f5400) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_intr.c:544 > #24 0xc0553dd2 in fork_exit (callout=0xc0554ba0 , arg=0x0, frame=0x0) > at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_fork.c:816 > > -- > Totus tuus, Glebius. > GLEBIUS-RIPN GLEB-RIPE > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 04:51:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABBDE16A4CE; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 04:51:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6659843D55; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 04:51:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from elischer.org (adsl-68-121-219-69.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [68.121.219.69])i6J4pAlM139060; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 00:51:10 -0400 Message-ID: <40FB533D.2080208@elischer.org> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 21:51:09 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030524 X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Gleb Smirnoff Subject: Re: linker_load_module(NULL, "modname", ...) from thread with no user process X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 04:51:13 -0000 Robert Watson wrote: >On Sat, 17 Jul 2004, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > > > >> there is problem when linker_load_module() is called from a kernel >>thread with no associated user process, and it asks to load module by >>name, not by filename. With such parameters it requires looking through >>device.hints file. And vn_open() assumes that >>ndp->ni_cnd->cn_thread->td_proc is valid. >> >>Any ideas how to solve this? >> >> > >Generally speaking, attempting to perform file I/O from an interrupt >thread or software interrupt is a really bad idea. There are a number of >reasons this is the case, not least that lookups and file operations occur >in the context of a process with a root directory, current working >directory, etc, and that a network swi or ithread doesn't have said >context (and may execute before that's available). Also, stalling the >netisr or an ithread on disk I/O seems to be a bad idea as well, not to >mention the NFS root file system case. So the question would seem to be >"Can we avoid it entirely?". I'm not quite sure what the answer here is, >but most similar cases I know of involve an asynchronous upcall message to >user space to load the module, or it being pushed from user space to >kernel without an upcall. Vis., devd loading a module in response to a >device event, etc. Adopting something more like that would help to avoid >this situation. I've seen similar reports a couple of times in the past, >and each time it worries me :-). > > Probably the onl thing to do is to refuse to try an load the modules if you are not running in the context of a process.. the question is: "What were you doing when this happenned?" > > >>Here is a sample backtrace: >> >>[...] >>#21 0xc1b4fa2b in ngintr () from /boot/kernel/netgraph.ko >>#22 0xc05e236a in swi_net (dummy=0x0) at /usr/src/sys/net/netisr.c:255 >>#23 0xc0554d22 in ithread_loop (arg=0xc14f5400) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_intr.c:544 >>#24 0xc0553dd2 in fork_exit (callout=0xc0554ba0 , arg=0x0, frame=0x0) >> at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_fork.c:816 >> >>-- >>Totus tuus, Glebius. >>GLEBIUS-RIPN GLEB-RIPE >>_______________________________________________ >>freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 07:23:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B8216A4CE; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:23:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cell.sick.ru (cell.sick.ru [217.72.144.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE98043D3F; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:23:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) Received: from cell.sick.ru (glebius@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cell.sick.ru (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6J7NpSX045781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:23:52 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) Received: (from glebius@localhost) by cell.sick.ru (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i6J7NptH045780; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:23:51 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cell.sick.ru: glebius set sender to glebius@freebsd.org using -f Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:23:51 +0400 From: Gleb Smirnoff To: Julian Elischer Message-ID: <20040719072351.GC45598@cell.sick.ru> References: <40FB533D.2080208@elischer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40FB533D.2080208@elischer.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Robert Watson Subject: Re: linker_load_module(NULL, "modname", ...) from thread with no user process X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:23:58 -0000 On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 09:51:09PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: J> >> there is problem when linker_load_module() is called from a kernel J> >>thread with no associated user process, and it asks to load module by J> >>name, not by filename. With such parameters it requires looking through J> >>device.hints file. And vn_open() assumes that J> >>ndp->ni_cnd->cn_thread->td_proc is valid. J> >> J> >>Any ideas how to solve this? J> >> J> >> J> > J> >Generally speaking, attempting to perform file I/O from an interrupt J> >thread or software interrupt is a really bad idea. There are a number of J> >reasons this is the case, not least that lookups and file operations occur J> >in the context of a process with a root directory, current working J> >directory, etc, and that a network swi or ithread doesn't have said J> >context (and may execute before that's available). Also, stalling the J> >netisr or an ithread on disk I/O seems to be a bad idea as well, not to J> >mention the NFS root file system case. So the question would seem to be J> >"Can we avoid it entirely?". I'm not quite sure what the answer here is, J> >but most similar cases I know of involve an asynchronous upcall message to J> >user space to load the module, or it being pushed from user space to J> >kernel without an upcall. Vis., devd loading a module in response to a J> >device event, etc. Adopting something more like that would help to avoid J> >this situation. I've seen similar reports a couple of times in the past, J> >and each time it worries me :-). J> > J> > J> Probably the onl thing to do is to refuse to try an load the modules if J> you are not running J> in the context of a process.. J> the question is: J> J> "What were you doing when this happenned?" Run mpd as PPPoE server. Ensure that ng_tee is not loaded, yet. Connect to this server. I have hit this panic with ngctl also, but can't remember hot to reproduce it. What is the correct way to determine whether we are in interrupt thread or not? -- Totus tuus, Glebius. GLEBIUS-RIPN GLEB-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 09:37:44 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF9C516A4CE; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:37:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cell.sick.ru (cell.sick.ru [217.72.144.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E5D443D58; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:37:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) Received: from cell.sick.ru (glebius@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cell.sick.ru (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i6J9bWZr048480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:37:33 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) Received: (from glebius@localhost) by cell.sick.ru (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i6J9bWbU048479; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:37:32 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cell.sick.ru: glebius set sender to glebius@freebsd.org using -f Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:37:32 +0400 From: Gleb Smirnoff To: Julian Elischer Message-ID: <20040719093732.GA48459@cell.sick.ru> References: <40FB533D.2080208@elischer.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40FB533D.2080208@elischer.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: Robert Watson Subject: Re: linker_load_module(NULL, "modname", ...) from thread with no user process X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:37:44 -0000 On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 09:51:09PM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote: J> Probably the onl thing to do is to refuse to try an load the modules if J> you are not running J> in the context of a process.. What about adding this check to ng_make_node()? It works for me OK. if (curthread->td_ithd != NULL) return(EAGAIN); Or even to linker_load_module()? And possibly EAGAIN is not the best choice. -- Totus tuus, Glebius. GLEBIUS-RIPN GLEB-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 11:18:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9667716A4CF for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:18:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from park.rambler.ru (park.rambler.ru [81.19.64.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43D3543D1D for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:18:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from is@rambler-co.ru) Received: from is.park.rambler.ru (is.park.rambler.ru [81.19.64.102]) by park.rambler.ru (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i6JBHqgU023731; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:17:52 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from is@rambler-co.ru) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:20:57 +0400 (MSD) From: Igor Sysoev X-X-Sender: is@is.park.rambler.ru To: Paul Querna In-Reply-To: <1090133387.16090.45.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040719150946.S38581@is.park.rambler.ru> References: <1090133387.16090.45.camel@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: KQueue and Threads? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:18:03 -0000 On Sat, 17 Jul 2004, Paul Querna wrote: > I have a question about using KQueue() in multi-threaded situations. A > couple months ago I wrote the KQueue support for Apache2/APR. I am now > investigating a pseudo Event/Worker MPM to better handle KeepAlive > Requests. (support for KQueue in Apache is available in our CVS HEAD and > via an experimental patch in the FreeBSD Ports... Feedback would be > nice.) > > For my example, say I have two threads. > > Thread A is in a kevent() waiting for events to happen on a set of FDs. > Thread B has an FD that it would like to add to the KQueue that Thread A > is using. > > What is the best way to get that FD into the KQueue, avoiding as much > context switching as possible? > > Is it possible for Thread B to just call kevent w/ EV_ADD and Thread A > will get proper notifications from that FD in the changed KQueue? Yes, it's possible for kqueue. I use this behaviour in my multi-process and multi-threaded light http and reverse-proxy server nginx. Thread B can successfully add at least the EVFILT_READ and EVFILT_WRITE filters. rfork()ed threads can not add EVFILT_SIGNAL. > I know this is possible with Linux's sys_epoll() implementation. Other > threads can just add FDs to the epoll, and the thread waiting in the > epoll will get notified of any activity on those new FDs, just like the > existing FDs. RT signals in Linux 2.6 and epoll support this feature too. In Linux 2.4 clone()ed threads can not add signal notification for another thread, because they have the different pids and a kernel returns EPERM for fcntl(F_SETOWN). Igor Sysoev http://sysoev.ru/en/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 12:11:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88F6A16A4CE for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:11:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.texas.rr.com [24.93.47.41]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B45C843D94 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:11:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from shocking@houston.rr.com) Received: from bleep.craftncomp.com (cs68201234-207.houston.rr.com [68.201.234.207])i6JCB7Hv024615 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:11:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bleep.craftncomp.com (localhost.craftncomp.com [127.0.0.1]) by bleep.craftncomp.com (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i6JCB7fY005294 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:11:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from shocking@bleep.craftncomp.com) Message-Id: <200407191211.i6JCB7fY005294@bleep.craftncomp.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.0 06/18/2004 with nmh-1.0.4 To: hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:11:07 -0500 From: Stephen Hocking X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Subject: Multiple Bootable FreeBSD partitions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:11:11 -0000 All, I'm looking at creating multiple versions of FreeBSD on the one disk - sharing perhaps one or two filesystems, but with totally separate /, /usr and /var. Does anyone have a quick way to do this from a clean install? I've done this under a number of OS's, but can't think how to do it with FreeBSD. Stephen -- "Opiates are the religion of the masses." - David Cameron Staples From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 12:17:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8523816A4CE for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:17:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from freebee.digiware.nl (dsl390.iae.nl [212.61.63.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F3743D1F for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:17:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wjw@withagen.nl) Received: from dual (dual [212.61.27.71]) by freebee.digiware.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i6JCFDsD078116; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:15:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wjw@withagen.nl) Message-ID: <130401c46d89$232263e0$471b3dd4@digiware.nl> From: "Willem Jan Withagen" To: , "Stephen Hocking" References: <200407191211.i6JCB7fY005294@bleep.craftncomp.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:08:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Subject: Re: Multiple Bootable FreeBSD partitions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:17:04 -0000 From: "Stephen Hocking" > I'm looking at creating multiple versions of FreeBSD on the one disk - sharing > perhaps one or two filesystems, but with totally separate /, /usr and /var. > Does anyone have a quick way to do this from a clean install? I've done this > under a number of OS's, but can't think how to do it with FreeBSD. FreeBSD itsell come with a selector in the bootsectors. Nothing really fancy, but it works. Not shure if the default is now to use LARGE disks, otherwise readup on boot0cfg and the -o packet option. My system also has w2K and WinXP/amd64, and I wanted a serial bootselector. So I used Grub for this. It is in the ports. --WjW From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 16:33:53 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F60D16A4CE for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:33:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org (bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org [198.22.63.43]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6F7543D53 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:33:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mwlucas@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org) Received: from bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org (mwlucas@localhost [127.0.0.1])i6JGXpS0049381; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:33:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost)i6JGXpNk049380; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:33:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:33:51 -0400 From: "Michael W. Lucas" To: Stephen Hocking Message-ID: <20040719163351.GA49339@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> References: <200407191211.i6JCB7fY005294@bleep.craftncomp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200407191211.i6JCB7fY005294@bleep.craftncomp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Spam-Score: (0) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.39 cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multiple Bootable FreeBSD partitions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:33:53 -0000 Not to blow my own horn, but: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2002/05/09/Big_Scary_Daemons.html On Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 07:11:07AM -0500, Stephen Hocking wrote: > All, > > I'm looking at creating multiple versions of FreeBSD on the one disk - sharing > perhaps one or two filesystems, but with totally separate /, /usr and /var. > Does anyone have a quick way to do this from a clean install? I've done this > under a number of OS's, but can't think how to do it with FreeBSD. > > > > Stephen > -- > > "Opiates are the religion of the masses." - David Cameron Staples > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org "I'm sorry, but 'Social Darwinism' is no excuse for killing all of your co-workers." -- Ivan Brunetti http://www.BlackHelicopters.org/~mwlucas/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 17:03:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17E9516A4CE for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:03:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mps10.plala.or.jp (c153126.vh.plala.or.jp [210.150.153.126]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA3C43D58 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:03:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from e-kamo@trio.plala.or.jp) Received: from msvc1.plala.or.jp ([172.23.8.209]) by mps10.plala.or.jp with SMTP id <20040719170351.DOBK7110.mps10.plala.or.jp@msvc1.plala.or.jp> for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 02:03:51 +0900 Received: ( 19493 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 02:03:51 +0900 X-SVCK: Received: from unknown (HELO mpb1.plala.or.jp) (172.23.8.16) by msvc1 with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 02:03:50 +0900 Received: from trio.plala.or.jp ([219.25.148.126]) by mpb1.plala.or.jp with ESMTP id <20040719170350.JQYQ19716.mpb1.plala.or.jp@trio.plala.or.jp>; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 02:03:50 +0900 Message-ID: <40FC0098.7010402@trio.plala.or.jp> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 02:10:48 +0900 From: Eitarou Kamo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael W. Lucas" , hackers@freebsd.org References: <200407191211.i6JCB7fY005294@bleep.craftncomp.com> <20040719163351.GA49339@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> In-Reply-To: <20040719163351.GA49339@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.8.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Multiple Bootable FreeBSD partitions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:03:54 -0000 Hi, Michael W. Lucas wrote: >Not to blow my own horn, but: > >http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2002/05/09/Big_Scary_Daemons.html > > If you have a time and you would like to run current, release, stable and extra a few OS, Install *Linux and use extended partition(slice for BSD guys) and Grub, and you can run at most 8 OS on your single HDD. Grub would boot from Linux extended partition( not dos extended partition). Eitarou From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 19:22:09 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD5916A4CE for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:22:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from freebee.digiware.nl (dsl390.iae.nl [212.61.63.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA1F43D3F for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:22:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wjw@withagen.nl) Received: from dual (dual [212.61.27.71]) by freebee.digiware.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i6JJKEsD086545; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:20:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wjw@withagen.nl) Message-ID: <144901c46dc4$8486a250$471b3dd4@digiware.nl> From: "Willem Jan Withagen" To: "Eitarou Kamo" , "Michael W. Lucas" , References: <200407191211.i6JCB7fY005294@bleep.craftncomp.com><20040719163351.GA49339@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <40FC0098.7010402@trio.plala.or.jp> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:13:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Subject: Re: Multiple Bootable FreeBSD partitions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:22:09 -0000 > >Not to blow my own horn, but: > > > >http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2002/05/09/Big_Scary_Daemons.html > > > > > If you have a time and you would like to run current, release, stable > and extra > a few OS, Install *Linux and use extended partition(slice for BSD guys) > and Grub, and you can run at most 8 OS on your single HDD. Grub would > boot from Linux extended partition( not dos extended partition). I have GRUB boot from the i386-FreeBSD partition which is the first on the disk. Makes it very easy to get the repair-CD and find the first / to repair the bootsector when MS has again threaded over it. Getting it to boot 8 OS-es is not as far as I got, because I've not started experimenting with extended partition. I've got 3 primaries, 1 extended. --WjW From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 19:47:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A4C616A4CE for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:47:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from herbelot.dyndns.org (brune-8-82-227-159-103.fbx.proxad.net [82.227.159.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85E2C43D2F for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:47:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from thierry@herbelot.com) Received: from [192.168.2.6] (diversion.herbelot.nom [192.168.2.6]) by herbelot.dyndns.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6JJiSh9002680; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:44:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Thierry Herbelot To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:46:52 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407191211.i6JCB7fY005294@bleep.craftncomp.com> <40FC0098.7010402@trio.plala.or.jp> <144901c46dc4$8486a250$471b3dd4@digiware.nl> In-Reply-To: <144901c46dc4$8486a250$471b3dd4@digiware.nl> X-Warning: Windows can lose your files X-Op-Sys: Le FriBi de la mort qui tue X-Org: TfH&Co X-MailScanner: Found to be clean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200407192146.52653.thierry@herbelot.com> cc: Eitarou Kamo cc: Willem Jan Withagen Subject: Re: Multiple Bootable FreeBSD partitions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: thierry@herbelot.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:47:01 -0000 Hello, I've got a grub.conf example with 5 OS'es at : http://therbelot.free.fr/Install_Linux/grub.conf (including 2 FreeBSD's in the same slice/"primary partition") Happy reading, TfH From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 21:08:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29C0016A4CE for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:08:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from herbelot.dyndns.org (brune-8-82-227-159-103.fbx.proxad.net [82.227.159.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 785BB43D41 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:08:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from thierry@herbelot.com) Received: from [192.168.2.6] (diversion.herbelot.nom [192.168.2.6]) by herbelot.dyndns.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6JL6ONj007170; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:06:25 +0200 (CEST) From: Thierry Herbelot To: Eitarou Kamo Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:08:48 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <200407191211.i6JCB7fY005294@bleep.craftncomp.com> <200407192146.52653.thierry@herbelot.com> <40FC3286.9000701@trio.plala.or.jp> In-Reply-To: <40FC3286.9000701@trio.plala.or.jp> X-Warning: Windows can lose your files X-Op-Sys: Le FriBi de la mort qui tue X-Org: TfH&Co X-MailScanner: Found to be clean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200407192308.48587.thierry@herbelot.com> cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: wjw@withagen.nl Subject: Grub capabilities (Re: Multiple Bootable FreeBSD partitions?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: thierry@herbelot.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:08:57 -0000 Le Monday 19 July 2004 22:43, Eitarou Kamo a écrit : > Me too. WinXP, RedHat, FreeBSD-4.10 and Solaris8 live > in my laptop. And RedHat has 2 kernels bootable. So I have > 5 OSes bootable. If 2 linux live in dos basic partition each other > and each linux create extend partition, is it possible to create > 10 bootable partition with grub? one very good point of grub is that it allows booting from a "logical" partition inside an "extended" partition : the number of bootable OSes is therefore un-limited, as log as they can live in an extended partition (that is, none of the BSD's for now ; you may also have for example up to 3x6=18 versions of FreeBSD alongside your numerous versions of Linux or Zin$$) TfH From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 21:40:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B59D016A4CE for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:40:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mps10.plala.or.jp (c153126.vh.plala.or.jp [210.150.153.126]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 795F143D3F for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:40:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from e-kamo@trio.plala.or.jp) Received: from msvc1.plala.or.jp ([172.23.8.209]) by mps10.plala.or.jp with SMTP id <20040719214018.IRKX7110.mps10.plala.or.jp@msvc1.plala.or.jp> for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:40:18 +0900 Received: ( 11712 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2004 06:40:18 +0900 X-SVCK: Received: from unknown (HELO mpb1.plala.or.jp) (172.23.8.16) by msvc1 with SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 06:40:17 +0900 Received: from trio.plala.or.jp ([219.25.148.126]) by mpb1.plala.or.jp with ESMTP id <20040719214017.JSBX19716.mpb1.plala.or.jp@trio.plala.or.jp>; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:40:17 +0900 Message-ID: <40FC4165.8090901@trio.plala.or.jp> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:47:17 +0900 From: Eitarou Kamo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: thierry@herbelot.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <200407191211.i6JCB7fY005294@bleep.craftncomp.com> <200407192146.52653.thierry@herbelot.com> <40FC3286.9000701@trio.plala.or.jp> <200407192308.48587.thierry@herbelot.com> In-Reply-To: <200407192308.48587.thierry@herbelot.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.8.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Grub capabilities (Re: Multiple Bootable FreeBSD partitions?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:40:20 -0000 Hi, Thierry Herbelot wrote: >Le Monday 19 July 2004 22:43, Eitarou Kamo a =E9crit : > > =20 > >>Me too. WinXP, RedHat, FreeBSD-4.10 and Solaris8 live >>in my laptop. And RedHat has 2 kernels bootable. So I have >>5 OSes bootable. If 2 linux live in dos basic partition each other >>and each linux create extend partition, is it possible to create >>10 bootable partition with grub? >> =20 >> > >one very good point of grub is that it allows booting from a "logical"=20 >partition inside an "extended" partition : the number of bootable OSes i= s=20 >therefore un-limited, as log as they can live in an extended partition (= that=20 >is, none of the BSD's for now ; you may also have for example up to 3x6=3D= 18=20 >versions of FreeBSD alongside your numerous versions of Linux or Zin$$) > > TfH > > =20 > If space of HDD allows and linux can create next extended partition by installing one after another on extended partition, Grub may have bootable partition infinitely like reflexive loop. If so, You may be able to have all OSes being in this world even on a laptop. I don't know if it is worth or not though. But it's amasing. Eitarou --=20 =20 *********************** Eitarou Kamo Tel. +81 75 7035997 Fax +81 75 7035997 VoIP 050 10585997(domestic only) e-mail e-kamo@trio.plala.or.jp For business: Feel free to mail me(above), please. Donation http://www.PayPal.Com GPG FingerPrint: 032D FDF9 D27B 23F7 9A81 BF4C 626C FBAA BC3A 9895=20 ************************************************************************ =20 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 23:16:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 349A716A4CE for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:16:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from angryfist.fasttrackmonkey.com (angryfist.fasttrackmonkey.com [216.223.196.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD9CF43D48 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:15:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from spork@fasttrackmonkey.com) Received: (qmail 21058 invoked by uid 2003); 19 Jul 2004 23:14:41 -0000 Received: from spork@fasttrackmonkey.com by angryfist.fasttrackmonkey.com by uid 1001 with qmail-scanner-1.20 (clamscan: 0.65. Clear:RC:1(216.220.116.154):. Processed in 0.046499 secs); 19 Jul 2004 23:14:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com) (216.220.116.154) by 0 with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 23:14:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:14:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Sprickman X-X-Sender: spork@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040719191408.V28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: disk recovery help X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:16:00 -0000 Hi, I'm sorry for hitting this list, but I'm trying to target people with some good old-fashioned recovery procedures in their toolboxes, and people that have a better understanding of UFS than I do. I'll try to keep this brief. We are looking for either some "here you go" help, or if there's someone who's really a whiz at this, paid help... The story, in brief, and what we're looking for: We have a mail server that had it's RAID array trashed by a typo. No backups (perhaps this will make the budget for that appear). There are four disks running in RAID 1+0 on an Adaptec 2110s. While replacing a failed drive I screwed the pooch with a typo. I meant "raidutil -a rebuild" but I typed "raidutil -a build". That command ran for about 45 seconds before I realized what had happened and cut power to the box. fsck was able to fix / with no problems, and most other partitions. We reinstalled the base OS and rebuilt all our local additions (ports + vpopmail/qmail/courier-imap-pop) in case there was any corrupted gunk left on the drive. However the partition holding all the mail (in Maildir format, working with vpopmail/qmail) seemed quite screwed. We let fsck try for about 12 hours and had to cancel out of it. While working on other things, I dd'd off this partition via ssh to another machine (ssh borked.box dd if=/dev/da1s1h bs=1024 > dd.img) hoping that we could do something with it later. Once that was done, we newfs'd that partition and let vpopmail recreate mailboxes as mail came in. So we're done on that front, but missing all old mail. I now have the disk image on a spare box. It's 26GB (about 20GB of actual data). My initial plan is just to see what happens if I mount it read-only, and then try to fsck without any time pressure and see what we've got left. Since I wasn't able to figure out how to dd this back to a pre-partitioned drive, I was going to try vnconfig to attach the dd image to vn0, then mount and fsck that. Should that work? I have little faith that all this will work though... If anyone has some tips/pointers/prayers, let me know. Again, we can probably dig up some cash if someone with experience in this would like to help. I'm still waiting for some info from Adaptec to see exactly what the "build" option does, and where it starts from and how far it might have got in that period of time. Oddly, the last tech that called for more info said he was going to ask DriveSavers (as they know that stuff???). Please email me directly with any other questions. I wanted to keep this as brief as possible since it's fairly OT. Thanks, Charles From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 20 06:19:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E15FD16A4CE for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:19:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from angryfist.fasttrackmonkey.com (angryfist.fasttrackmonkey.com [216.223.196.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BA4B43D45 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:19:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from spork@fasttrackmonkey.com) Received: (qmail 5524 invoked by uid 2003); 20 Jul 2004 06:18:06 -0000 Received: from spork@fasttrackmonkey.com by angryfist.fasttrackmonkey.com by uid 1001 with qmail-scanner-1.20 (clamscan: 0.65. Clear:RC:1(216.220.116.154):. Processed in 0.044806 secs); 20 Jul 2004 06:18:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com) (216.220.116.154) by 0 with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 06:18:05 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 02:18:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Sprickman X-X-Sender: spork@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20040719191408.V28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> Message-ID: <20040720021432.O28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> References: <20040719191408.V28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: disk recovery help X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:19:26 -0000 Hi, Just following up to myself. I have a bit more info. I used vnconfig like so to attach my dd "image": vnconfig -s labels -c vn0 xena-home.dd And while fsck and disklable both refuse to believe it's at all valid, I can do the following: mount -o ro -f /dev/vn0c /mnt/tmp And for the most part I can move around the filesystem, read files, etc. But it is in a very inconsistent state. How can I make fsck work on this? There's data there, but looking into certain dirs panics the box (it is just a junker set aside for this task at the moment). Here's what fsck says: root@skunkworks[/mnt/tmp/vpopmail/domains]# fsck /dev/vn0c ** /dev/vn0c BAD SUPER BLOCK: VALUES IN SUPER BLOCK DISAGREE WITH THOSE IN FIRST ALTERNATE ioctl (GCINFO): Invalid argument fsck: /dev/vn0c: can't read disk label Any hints? Thanks, Charles On Mon, 19 Jul 2004, Charles Sprickman wrote: > Hi, > > I'm sorry for hitting this list, but I'm trying to target people with some > good old-fashioned recovery procedures in their toolboxes, and people that > have a better understanding of UFS than I do. > > I'll try to keep this brief. We are looking for either some "here you go" > help, or if there's someone who's really a whiz at this, paid help... > > The story, in brief, and what we're looking for: > > We have a mail server that had it's RAID array trashed by a typo. No > backups (perhaps this will make the budget for that appear). There are > four disks running in RAID 1+0 on an Adaptec 2110s. While replacing a > failed drive I screwed the pooch with a typo. I meant "raidutil -a > rebuild" but I typed "raidutil -a build". That command ran for about 45 > seconds before I realized what had happened and cut power to the box. > > fsck was able to fix / with no problems, and most other partitions. We > reinstalled the base OS and rebuilt all our local additions (ports + > vpopmail/qmail/courier-imap-pop) in case there was any corrupted gunk left > on the drive. However the partition holding all the mail (in Maildir > format, working with vpopmail/qmail) seemed quite screwed. We let fsck > try for about 12 hours and had to cancel out of it. While working on > other things, I dd'd off this partition via ssh to another machine (ssh > borked.box dd if=/dev/da1s1h bs=1024 > dd.img) hoping that we could do > something with it later. Once that was done, we newfs'd that partition > and let vpopmail recreate mailboxes as mail came in. So we're done on > that front, but missing all old mail. > > I now have the disk image on a spare box. It's 26GB (about 20GB of actual > data). My initial plan is just to see what happens if I mount it > read-only, and then try to fsck without any time pressure and see what > we've got left. Since I wasn't able to figure out how to dd this back to > a pre-partitioned drive, I was going to try vnconfig to attach the dd > image to vn0, then mount and fsck that. Should that work? > > I have little faith that all this will work though... If anyone has some > tips/pointers/prayers, let me know. Again, we can probably dig up some > cash if someone with experience in this would like to help. > > I'm still waiting for some info from Adaptec to see exactly what the > "build" option does, and where it starts from and how far it might have > got in that period of time. Oddly, the last tech that called for more > info said he was going to ask DriveSavers (as they know that stuff???). > > Please email me directly with any other questions. I wanted to keep this > as brief as possible since it's fairly OT. > > Thanks, > > Charles > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 20 09:29:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 054FD16A4CE for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:29:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail022.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail022.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.100]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E948D43D41 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:29:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (c211-30-75-229.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.30.75.229]) i6K9Snk10751; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:28:51 +1000 Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (localhost.alcatel.com.au [127.0.0.1])i6K9SmVd006364; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:28:48 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au) Received: (from pjeremy@localhost)i6K9SmMs006363; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:28:48 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:28:48 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Charles Sprickman Message-ID: <20040720092848.GD3001@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> References: <20040719191408.V28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> <20040720021432.O28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040720021432.O28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: disk recovery help X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:29:02 -0000 On Tue, 2004-Jul-20 02:18:00 -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote: >And for the most part I can move around the filesystem, read files, etc. >But it is in a very inconsistent state. How can I make fsck work on this? >There's data there, but looking into certain dirs panics the box (it is It's difficult to see how a sanely written RAID utility could totally screw up an array in a short time - a 'build' utility presumably writes known data to the array but logically it would do so sequentially. The only thing I can think of is that the controller had a significant amount of cached data - which has been wiped, rather than written back to the disk. If you haven't run newfs and have the correct disklabel, the disk should be in a reasonably sane state. Have you tried running something like ports/sysutils/scan_ffs over the disk (or your copy of it)? Have you tried dumping vn0c? -- Peter Jeremy From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 19 13:15:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1883F16A4CE for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:15:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mailhost.stack.nl (vaak.stack.nl [131.155.140.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 670F443D4C for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:15:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jilles@stack.nl) Received: from snail.stack.nl (snail.stack.nl [IPv6:2001:610:1108:5010::131]) by mailhost.stack.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73A0E1F087; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:15:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: by snail.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 1677) id 5E9DC2286D; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:15:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:15:04 +0200 From: Jilles Tjoelker To: Jose de Paula Message-ID: <20040719131503.GA12222@stack.nl> References: <5ef8c2f004071419517bdc9f3e@mail.gmail.com> <20040718135541.GA28115@gothmog.gr> <5ef8c2f0040718144648b49ff6@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <5ef8c2f0040718144648b49ff6@mail.gmail.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.2.1-RELEASE-p9 i386 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:56:18 +0000 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] basic modelines for contrib/nvi X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:15:06 -0000 On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 06:46:34PM -0300, José de Paula wrote: > > On 2004-07-14 23:51, Jos? de Paula wrote: > > > I hacked together this little patch to contrib/nvi to make it support > > > simple modelines. [snip] > So, what do you think about it, overall? This patch recognizes one and > only one modeline, and runs it. Should we look for all possible > modelines and run all of them? In this case, in what order should we > check for them? Probably, but keep it limited to the first and last 5 lines of the file (in vim, the value 5 is customizable). > And, concerning the security, what are the implications of this patch? > I cannot see any obvious blunder, so if you find anyone please let me > know. There are some options which can pose a security risk, including but not limited to cdpath, tempdir, path and shell. You should make a list of "safe" options and only allow those in modelines. -- Jilles Tjoelker From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 20 18:02:31 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4954416A4CF for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:02:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from angryfist.fasttrackmonkey.com (angryfist.fasttrackmonkey.com [216.223.196.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C889B43D46 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:02:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from spork@fasttrackmonkey.com) Received: (qmail 64488 invoked by uid 2003); 20 Jul 2004 18:01:11 -0000 Received: from spork@fasttrackmonkey.com by angryfist.fasttrackmonkey.com by uid 1001 with qmail-scanner-1.20 (clamscan: 0.65. Clear:RC:1(216.220.116.154):. Processed in 0.043998 secs); 20 Jul 2004 18:01:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com) (216.220.116.154) by 0 with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 18:01:10 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:01:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Sprickman X-X-Sender: spork@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com To: Peter Jeremy In-Reply-To: <20040720092848.GD3001@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> Message-ID: <20040720135157.Q28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> References: <20040719191408.V28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> <20040720021432.O28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> <20040720092848.GD3001@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: disk recovery help X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:02:31 -0000 On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Peter Jeremy wrote: > It's difficult to see how a sanely written RAID utility could totally > screw up an array in a short time - a 'build' utility presumably > writes known data to the array but logically it would do so > sequentially. The only thing I can think of is that the controller > had a significant amount of cached data - which has been wiped, rather > than written back to the disk. This is one case where I'd like to see a "Are you sure (y/n)?" prompt. In the future, I'm sticking with the adaptec BIOS to do a drive replace/rebuild. Adaptec's raidutil is just a bit too easy to shoot yourself in the foot with. I have a call in to adaptec about this, they are having a hard time telling me just what the "build" (not "rebuild") command does, but they are fairly certain that it writes it's config at the end of the disk, then zeros it from the outside in. > If you haven't run newfs and have the correct disklabel, the disk > should be in a reasonably sane state. Have you tried running something > like ports/sysutils/scan_ffs over the disk (or your copy of it)? I don't have the actual disk; we're very short on any sort of spare hardware so we had to newfs the partition in question and start over. I grabbed the dd "image" before that. An fsck on the problem partition ran for 12 hours and I don't know how far along it was. I looked at scan_ffs just now, and it looks like it works on the whole disk trying to find the label. Since I only have one partition, there's no label. > Have you tried dumping vn0c? I could try that, but I'd have to find myself another 26GB of space somewhere. Thanks! Charles > -- > Peter Jeremy > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 20 18:06:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E93716A4CE for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:06:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC45843D39 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:06:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@joelink.net) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (c-24-14-79-34.client.comcast.net[24.14.79.34]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2004072018063101100drm2he>; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:06:32 +0000 Message-ID: <40FD5F20.3090502@joelink.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 13:06:24 -0500 From: Joseph M Link User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: xpt_schedule() and start interface context question. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:06:33 -0000 Hello, I have been looking at the targ driver written by Nate Lawson and Justin Gibbs. I am seeing some access of user memory outside of what is obviously user context (the call to copyin and cam_periph_mapmem() by way of the targstart() interface). I am wondering how xpt_schedule() works and if they are leveraging something there. Specifically, does a call to a periph's start() function always get called in the same context as the caller of xpt_schedule() (which happens to always be user context in the targ driver)? In looking at the code for xpt_schedule(), it definitely seems that that is possible, but it also seems possible that if the device has no resources available, the start() call is queued and delayed. If the latter case is actually possible with the targ driver, then what context is the targstart() called in? if it's not the user's context, that would make the calls to copyin() and cam_periph_mapmem() behave incorrectly, right? Thanks, Joe From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 20 18:06:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BB416A4CE for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:06:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from angryfist.fasttrackmonkey.com (angryfist.fasttrackmonkey.com [216.223.196.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C9B43D31 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:06:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from spork@fasttrackmonkey.com) Received: (qmail 64924 invoked by uid 2003); 20 Jul 2004 18:05:29 -0000 Received: from spork@fasttrackmonkey.com by angryfist.fasttrackmonkey.com by uid 1001 with qmail-scanner-1.20 (clamscan: 0.65. Clear:RC:1(216.220.116.154):. Processed in 0.044222 secs); 20 Jul 2004 18:05:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com) (216.220.116.154) by 0 with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 20 Jul 2004 18:05:28 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:05:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Sprickman X-X-Sender: spork@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com To: Eitarou Kamo In-Reply-To: <40FD011B.1020504@trio.plala.or.jp> Message-ID: <20040720140124.E28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> References: <20040719191408.V28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> <40FD011B.1020504@trio.plala.or.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: disk recovery help X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:06:49 -0000 On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Eitarou Kamo wrote: > >Here's what fsck says: > > > >root@skunkworks[/mnt/tmp/vpopmail/domains]# fsck /dev/vn0c ** /dev/vn0c > >BAD SUPER BLOCK: VALUES IN SUPER BLOCK DISAGREE WITH THOSE IN FIRST > >ALTERNATE > >ioctl (GCINFO): Invalid argument > >fsck: /dev/vn0c: can't read disk label > > > You'd like to do like? : > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/disks-virtual.html Yes, that allows me to mount the filesystem (but it is still "dirty", which leads to the occasional panic). Looking at that first message, fsck is telling me that it sees the superblock and a superblock backup and that they do not agree. I know when you newfs a filesystem there seem to be a ton of superblock backups. How do I find out where they are and compare them? Meaning, if the main one and first backup disagree, but three others all agree can I assume they are probably right? > If you'd like to restore dd.img to /dev/da1s1h normally you should > use dd command directly. dd.img is not a data but just a image. > So you need not create any file system. That's what I thought, and that's what I originally tried to do, but after fdisk'ing and labeling the spare drive to match the original label, dd was refusing to write to the /dev/ad3s1h device, claiming it was "read only" (I was root). Thanks, Charles > FYI: > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/disks.html > > Eitarou > > -- > > > *********************** > Eitarou Kamo > > Tel. +81 75 7035997 > Fax +81 75 7035997 > VoIP 050 10585997(domestic only) > e-mail e-kamo@trio.plala.or.jp > > For business: > Feel free to mail me(above), please. > > Donation http://www.PayPal.Com > > GPG FingerPrint: > 032D FDF9 D27B 23F7 9A81 BF4C 626C FBAA BC3A 9895 > ************************************************************************ > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 20 18:13:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF7916A4CE for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:13:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web21507.mail.yahoo.com (web21507.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 98EE643D45 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:13:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from time_to_hack@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040720181329.46984.qmail@web21507.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.248.72.254] by web21507.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:13:29 PDT Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:13:29 -0700 (PDT) From: bsd hack To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: FreeBSD 5.2 and ACPI X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:13:29 -0000 Hi, I am building a custom kernel with FreeBSD 5.2... I need to disable ACPI (otherwise the system fails to recognize the disk!!) ... so is it fine if I just do a make and then a make install of the new kernel and then add hint.acpi.0.disabled to /boot/loader.conf ? or is anything to be done before doin a make and a make install? any help will be appreciated. Thank you. HKR --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 20 18:18:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A129916A4CE for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:18:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 194-185-53-242.f5.ngi.it (194-185-53-242.f5.ngi.it [194.185.53.242]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC8843D60 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:18:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mark@remotelab.org) Received: from vaio.lab (localhost. [127.0.0.1])i6KIIm1k084607; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:18:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mark@remotelab.org) Received: from vaio.lab (localhost.lab [127.0.0.1]) by vaio.lab (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6KIIPVk003080; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:18:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mark@vaio.lab) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vaio.lab (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i6KIIP6J003079; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:18:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:18:25 +0200 From: Marco Trentini To: bsd hack Message-ID: <20040720181825.GA615@vaio.lab> References: <20040720181329.46984.qmail@web21507.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040720181329.46984.qmail@web21507.mail.yahoo.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD vaio.lab 5.2.1-RELEASE-p9 i386 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 5.2 and ACPI X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:18:50 -0000 On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 11:13:29AM -0700, bsd hack wrote: > Hi, > I am building a custom kernel with FreeBSD 5.2... I need to disable ACPI (otherwise the system fails to recognize the disk!!) > ... so is it fine if I just do a make and then a make install of the new kernel and then add hint.acpi.0.disabled to /boot/loader.conf ? or is anything to be done before doin a make and a make install? > > any help will be appreciated. Put hint.acpi.0.disabled=1 in your loader.conf, then reboot and build your custom kernel. -- Marco Trentini mark@remotelab.org http://www.remotelab.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 20 19:23:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF9B16A4CE for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:23:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from tut.by (speedy.tutby.com [195.209.41.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4035F43D39 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:23:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from myst@tut.by) Received: from [82.209.192.170] (account myst@tut.by) by tut.by (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.1.8) with HTTP id 108250817 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:23:25 +0300 From: Stas D.Myasnikov To: X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro WebUser Interface v.4.1.8 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:23:25 +0300 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="KOI8-R"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: How to clean out old files after 'make world'? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:23:30 -0000 Hello! While doing 'make world' I used make.conf with couple on 'NO_*=yes', e.g. NO_KERBEROS=yes (I don't need Kerberos on my home computer). But after rebuilding world and install I saw the old binaries, configs, etc. of Kerberos and other parts of base that I didn't build. I had thought that install script removes all unneeded files, but it don't. How can I clean out this old binaries, configs, etc?.. Is there any automatic way to do this? Bye. -- äÏÂÒÏ ÐÏÖÁÌÏ×ÁÔØ × ÒÅÁÌØÎÙÊ ÍÉÒ! ô×ÏÊ ÏÔ×ÅÔ ÓÉÓÔÅÍÅ - http://www.july21.info From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 20 19:44:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECB3F16A4CE for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:44:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp3.server.rpi.edu (smtp3.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.3]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549A943D1D for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:44:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp3.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id i6KJiYmi008025; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:44:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:44:33 -0400 To: "Stas D.Myasnikov" , From: Garance A Drosihn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) Subject: Re: How to clean out old files after 'make world'? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:44:38 -0000 At 10:23 PM +0300 7/20/04, Stas D.Myasnikov wrote: >... I had thought that install script removes all unneeded files, >but it don't. How can I clean out this old binaries, configs, etc?.. >Is there any automatic way to do this? You can: make cleanworld which does a fairly decent job of getting rid of all the old files in your build area (e.g., in /usr/obj/usr/src). However, I am not sure if you are asking for more than that. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 20 19:56:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC9116A4D0 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:56:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mailtest.sd73.bc.ca (mailtest.sd73.bc.ca [142.24.13.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A1143D39 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:56:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailtest.sd73.bc.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF54D25B65 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailtest.sd73.bc.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailtest.sd73.bc.ca [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31649-03 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailtest.sd73.bc.ca (Postfix, from userid 80) id 68F5C25B5F; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 192.168.0.85 (SquirrelMail authenticated user fcash); by mailtest.sd73.bc.ca with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1784.192.168.0.85.1090353405.squirrel@192.168.0.85> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:56:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Freddie Cash" To: hackers@freebsd.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at sd73.bc.ca Subject: Re: How to clean out old files after 'make world'? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:56:47 -0000 > At 10:23 PM +0300 7/20/04, Stas D.Myasnikov wrote: >>... I had thought that install script removes all unneeded files, >>but it don't. How can I clean out this old binaries, configs, etc?.. >>Is there any automatic way to do this? > You can: make cleanworld > which does a fairly decent job of getting rid of all the old files > in your build area (e.g., in /usr/obj/usr/src). That only cleans out the /usr/obj directory tree. It doesn't remove any files from anywhere else in the system. > However, I am not sure if you are asking for more than that. He wants to install FreeBSD, edit make.conf and uncomment a bunch of NO_* variables to prevent them from being built/install during a world build, and wants to have a way to remove the existing files from /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, etc. Check the How-To forum at http://www.bsdforums.org/forums/ One of the members there posted a set of scripts that will parse the NO_* variables in make.conf, and remove any and all files associated with those subsystems from an installed system. The end result is the same as building a custom release and reinstalling using that release to only get the bits you want, but without all the hassle of building a custom release. :) -- Freddie Cash, CCNT CCLP Helpdesk / Network Support Tech. School District 73 (250) 377-HELP [377-4357] fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 20 20:19:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C4C16A4CE for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:19:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from tut.by (speedy.tutby.com [195.209.41.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD9E443D31 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:19:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from myst@tut.by) Received: from [82.209.192.170] (account myst@tut.by) by tut.by (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.1.8) with HTTP id 108265467; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 23:19:54 +0300 From: Stas D.Myasnikov To: fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro WebUser Interface v.4.1.8 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 23:19:54 +0300 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1784.192.168.0.85.1090353405.squirrel@192.168.0.85> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="KOI8-R"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to clean out old files after 'make world'? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:19:56 -0000 Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:56:45 -0700 (PDT), "Freddie Cash" wrote: >The end result is the same as building a custom release and >reinstalling using that release to only get the bits you want, but >without all the hassle of building a custom release. :) Thanx! It's exactly what I want! -- äÏÂÒÏ ÐÏÖÁÌÏ×ÁÔØ × ÒÅÁÌØÎÙÊ ÍÉÒ! ô×ÏÊ ÏÔ×ÅÔ ÓÉÓÔÅÍÅ - http://www.july21.info From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 00:39:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B36316A4CE; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:39:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lakermmtao09.cox.net (lakermmtao09.cox.net [68.230.240.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8F6F43D31; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:39:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from conrads@cox.net) Received: from dolphin.local.net ([68.11.71.51]) by lakermmtao09.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02.01 201-2131-111-104-103-20040709) with ESMTP <20040721003930.HONQ19339.lakermmtao09.cox.net@dolphin.local.net>; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:39:30 -0400 Received: from dolphin.local.net (localhost.local.net [127.0.0.1]) by dolphin.local.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6L0dV3m023581; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:39:31 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads@dolphin.local.net) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by dolphin.local.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i6L0dVwh023580; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:39:31 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.5 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:39:31 -0500 (CDT) Organization: A Rag-Tag Band of Drug-Crazed Hippies From: "Conrad J. Sabatier" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: conrads@cox.net List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:39:33 -0000 Just musing on an idea here: I've been thinking for a while now about trying to write a tool to make kernel configuration easier, sort of a "make config" (as in ports) for the kernel, similar to what's available on some of the Linux distros. Ideally, such a tool would be capable of automatically adapting itself to handle and present as choices, in an orderly and logical fashion, whatever devices, options, etc. were currently available, as defined by the files in /sys/conf et al. The major hurdle to overcome, it appears to me, is that the scheme currently employed to describe the available devices, options, etc. does not lend itself very easily at all to any kind of automatic parsing or other manipulations. Determining dependencies between components programmatically, for one thing, seems well near impossible. The NOTES files, in their current form, make even finding the comment associated with a particular option or device extremely difficult, if not impossible. Has this ever come up for discussion before? Now that we have rcNG, with its explicit declarations of dependencies, has any thought been given to doing something similar with kernel configuration files? Something still human-readable, yet more orderly and systematic, easier for a machine to interpret, present and verify? A dependable tool offering a menu-driven means of configuring the kernel, ensuring proper config file syntax, dependency handling, prevention of incompatible options, etc. -- as well as online documentation, advice, suggestions and warnings, plus perhaps a nice set of default selections -- would be a very nice addition to the system. But to bring it about, obviously a major reworking of the current system of kernel configuration files would be required. Thoughts? -- Conrad J. Sabatier -- "In Unix veritas" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 01:03:53 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D9B16A4CE; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:03:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4830A43D2D; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:03:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (IDENT:brdavis@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6L13gOF009050; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:03:42 -0700 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.10/8.12.3/Submit) id i6L13gZw009049; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:03:42 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:03:42 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: "Conrad J. Sabatier" Message-ID: <20040721010342.GA8398@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:03:53 -0000 --Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:39:31PM -0500, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > Just musing on an idea here: >=20 > I've been thinking for a while now about trying to write a tool to make > kernel configuration easier, sort of a "make config" (as in ports) for > the kernel, similar to what's available on some of the Linux distros. >=20 > Ideally, such a tool would be capable of automatically adapting itself > to handle and present as choices, in an orderly and logical fashion, > whatever devices, options, etc. were currently available, as defined by > the files in /sys/conf et al. >=20 > The major hurdle to overcome, it appears to me, is that the scheme > currently employed to describe the available devices, options, etc. > does not lend itself very easily at all to any kind of automatic > parsing or other manipulations. Determining dependencies between > components programmatically, for one thing, seems well near impossible. > The NOTES files, in their current form, make even finding the comment > associated with a particular option or device extremely difficult, if > not impossible. >=20 > Has this ever come up for discussion before? Now that we have rcNG, > with its explicit declarations of dependencies, has any thought been > given to doing something similar with kernel configuration files?=20 > Something still human-readable, yet more orderly and systematic, easier > for a machine to interpret, present and verify? There have been previous discussions. They should be visiable in the archives if you can find the magic search strings. > A dependable tool offering a menu-driven means of configuring the > kernel, ensuring proper config file syntax, dependency handling, > prevention of incompatible options, etc. -- as well as online > documentation, advice, suggestions and warnings, plus perhaps a nice > set of default selections -- would be a very nice addition to the > system. But to bring it about, obviously a major reworking of the > current system of kernel configuration files would be required. You can have my simple flat file kernel config when you pry it from my cold, dead hands and I know a number of other develoeprs share this viewpoint. All my experiences with the linux visual kernel config tool have been annoying and I've got friends with more expierence with it that have much less kind things to say. That said, so long as it doesn't impose too much developer burden, an improved set of backend files that did a better job of handling dependencies and knew which options where relevent given the configured set of devices could be useful. There is a valid question of what a depenency means. For instance, you can't really have IP networking without lo(4) (there's a null pointer derefrence if you try), but since you can load it as a module, should you have to compile it in? -- Brooks --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFA/cDtXY6L6fI4GtQRAqJ2AKCmdRcXaKKJyXTUNphL49rb2o0GygCfV5/n FR230TjAQU6M0xhXj4BrJcw= =pByA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 01:23:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E1216A4CE; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:23:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lakermmtao10.cox.net (lakermmtao10.cox.net [68.230.240.29]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF78D43D1F; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:23:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from conrads@cox.net) Received: from dolphin.local.net ([68.11.71.51]) by lakermmtao10.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02.01 201-2131-111-104-103-20040709) with ESMTP <20040721012256.IHYZ18630.lakermmtao10.cox.net@dolphin.local.net>; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 21:22:56 -0400 Received: from dolphin.local.net (localhost.local.net [127.0.0.1]) by dolphin.local.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6L1MvE2011420; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:22:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads@dolphin.local.net) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by dolphin.local.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i6L1Mvv6011419; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:22:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.5 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:22:56 -0500 (CDT) Organization: A Rag-Tag Band of Drug-Crazed Hippies From: "Conrad J. Sabatier" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: conrads@cox.net List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:23:28 -0000 On 21-Jul-2004 Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: [snip] > Has this ever come up for discussion before? Now that we have rcNG, > with its explicit declarations of dependencies, has any thought been > given to doing something similar with kernel configuration files? > Something still human-readable, yet more orderly and systematic, > easier for a machine to interpret, present and verify? Just a note of clarification here: the use of the term "kernel configuration files" in the above paragraph refers to the entire set of files residing under /sys/conf and friends, not the user's kernel config. Just wanted to make sure. :-) -- Conrad J. Sabatier -- "In Unix veritas" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 01:29:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF0016A4CE; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:29:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.185]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E80C543D2F; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:29:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from [212.227.126.179] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Bn5vN-0004Hp-00; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 03:29:37 +0200 Received: from [84.128.141.84] (helo=donor.laier.local) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Bn5vN-0006uW-00; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 03:29:37 +0200 From: Max Laier To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 03:27:22 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <20040721010342.GA8398@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> In-Reply-To: <20040721010342.GA8398@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Boundary-02=_Bac/AGbBUnTVzB7"; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200407210327.29307.max@love2party.net> X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:61c499deaeeba3ba5be80f48ecc83056 cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:29:39 -0000 --Boundary-02=_Bac/AGbBUnTVzB7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday 21 July 2004 03:03, Brooks Davis wrote: > On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:39:31PM -0500, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > > Just musing on an idea here: > > > > I've been thinking for a while now about trying to write a tool to make > > kernel configuration easier, sort of a "make config" (as in ports) for > > the kernel, similar to what's available on some of the Linux distros. > > > > Ideally, such a tool would be capable of automatically adapting itself > > to handle and present as choices, in an orderly and logical fashion, > > whatever devices, options, etc. were currently available, as defined by > > the files in /sys/conf et al. > > > > The major hurdle to overcome, it appears to me, is that the scheme > > currently employed to describe the available devices, options, etc. > > does not lend itself very easily at all to any kind of automatic > > parsing or other manipulations. Determining dependencies between > > components programmatically, for one thing, seems well near impossible. > > The NOTES files, in their current form, make even finding the comment > > associated with a particular option or device extremely difficult, if > > not impossible. > > > > Has this ever come up for discussion before? Now that we have rcNG, > > with its explicit declarations of dependencies, has any thought been > > given to doing something similar with kernel configuration files? > > Something still human-readable, yet more orderly and systematic, easier > > for a machine to interpret, present and verify? > > There have been previous discussions. They should be visiable in the > archives if you can find the magic search strings. > > > A dependable tool offering a menu-driven means of configuring the > > kernel, ensuring proper config file syntax, dependency handling, > > prevention of incompatible options, etc. -- as well as online > > documentation, advice, suggestions and warnings, plus perhaps a nice > > set of default selections -- would be a very nice addition to the > > system. But to bring it about, obviously a major reworking of the > > current system of kernel configuration files would be required. > > You can have my simple flat file kernel config when you pry it from my > cold, dead hands and I know a number of other develoeprs share this > viewpoint. All my experiences with the linux visual kernel config tool > have been annoying and I've got friends with more expierence with it > that have much less kind things to say. Add me to the list. And this realates to sys/conf/* as well (respondig to t= he=20 re-reply). Especially developers prefer *clean*, *simple* config files and = I=20 (personally) would really really hate to twiddle with some insane XML just = to=20 add something to the build! > That said, so long as it doesn't impose too much developer burden, > an improved set of backend files that did a better job of handling > dependencies and knew which options where relevent given the configured > set of devices could be useful. http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.3R/todo.html has a "Desired features"-ite= m=20 saying: "Revised kld build infrastructure", which will pretty much interfer= e=20 with this. You might want to contact with the current owner (peter@) and he= ar=20 what he has to say. Other than that, I'd welcome a somewhat enriched config= =20 environment as long as it is done reasonable and makes the job easier! And= =20 please: NO XML! > There is a valid question of what a depenency means. For instance, you > can't really have IP networking without lo(4) (there's a null pointer > derefrence if you try), but since you can load it as a module, should > you have to compile it in? There should be levels of dependencies ... i.e. the TBD config-tool would=20 (strongly) suggest that you build-in lo(4) into an "options INET" kernel, b= ut=20 should not stop you to do else. =2D-=20 /"\ Best regards, | mlaier@freebsd.org \ / Max Laier | ICQ #67774661 X http://pf4freebsd.love2party.net/ | mlaier@EFnet / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News --Boundary-02=_Bac/AGbBUnTVzB7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBA/caBXyyEoT62BG0RAiBVAJ4qxg1UcSPtME3K6DfaqdOEtWahlQCffcBO Ic3LNMcpcEj/HVQdrBMkqaQ= =b9p+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Boundary-02=_Bac/AGbBUnTVzB7-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 01:37:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6D6316A4CE; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:37:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lakermmtao11.cox.net (lakermmtao11.cox.net [68.230.240.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F63143D1D; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:37:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from conrads@cox.net) Received: from dolphin.local.net ([68.11.71.51]) by lakermmtao11.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02.01 201-2131-111-104-103-20040709) with ESMTP id <20040721013727.ICJM9104.lakermmtao11.cox.net@dolphin.local.net>; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 21:37:27 -0400 Received: from dolphin.local.net (localhost.local.net [127.0.0.1]) by dolphin.local.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6L1bQks023075; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:37:26 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads@dolphin.local.net) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by dolphin.local.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i6L1bQas023074; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:37:26 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.5 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20040721010342.GA8398@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:37:26 -0500 (CDT) Organization: A Rag-Tag Band of Drug-Crazed Hippies From: "Conrad J. Sabatier" To: Brooks Davis cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: conrads@cox.net List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:37:58 -0000 On 21-Jul-2004 Brooks Davis wrote: > You can have my simple flat file kernel config when you pry it from > my cold, dead hands and I know a number of other develoeprs share > this viewpoint. All my experiences with the linux visual kernel > config tool have been annoying and I've got friends with more > expierence with it that have much less kind things to say. Well, the idea is not to replace the current use of a single, flat kernel config file, only to ease its creation. The end result would be essentially the same, although with a slightly different arrangement of items, of course. > That said, so long as it doesn't impose too much developer burden, > an improved set of backend files that did a better job of handling > dependencies and knew which options where relevent given the > configured set of devices could be useful. Yes, I think it's an interesting area for exploration. > There is a valid question of what a depenency means. For instance, > you can't really have IP networking without lo(4) (there's a null > pointer derefrence if you try), but since you can load it as a > module, should you have to compile it in? Hmm, good point. This will obviously require some careful thinking. As I told Julian Elischer just now in another (private) reply, I don't have even the first sketches of such a reorganization on the drawing board. I was curious to see how such an idea would be received first. If there's a lot of resistance (which I could certainly understand), I won't even bother. But if there's an interest...I'd certainly be willing to invest some time in it and see what I could cook up. So far, no one's yelling "blasphemer!" or anything. But then it's still early. We'll see. :-) -- Conrad J. Sabatier -- "In Unix veritas" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 01:53:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B33916A4CE; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:53:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lakermmtao04.cox.net (lakermmtao04.cox.net [68.230.240.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A232343D5A; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:53:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from conrads@cox.net) Received: from dolphin.local.net ([68.11.71.51]) by lakermmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02.01 201-2131-111-104-103-20040709) with ESMTP id <20040721015340.IEYY7562.lakermmtao04.cox.net@dolphin.local.net>; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 21:53:40 -0400 Received: from dolphin.local.net (localhost.local.net [127.0.0.1]) by dolphin.local.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6L1rfdJ081579; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:53:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads@dolphin.local.net) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by dolphin.local.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i6L1rfi0081573; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:53:41 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.5 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200407210327.29307.max@love2party.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:53:41 -0500 (CDT) Organization: A Rag-Tag Band of Drug-Crazed Hippies From: "Conrad J. Sabatier" To: Max Laier cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: conrads@cox.net List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:53:43 -0000 On 21-Jul-2004 Max Laier wrote: > On Wednesday 21 July 2004 03:03, Brooks Davis wrote: >> On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:39:31PM -0500, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: [snip] >> > A dependable tool offering a menu-driven means of configuring the >> > kernel, ensuring proper config file syntax, dependency handling, >> > prevention of incompatible options, etc. -- as well as online >> > documentation, advice, suggestions and warnings, plus perhaps a >> > nice set of default selections -- would be a very nice addition to >> > the system. But to bring it about, obviously a major reworking of >> > the current system of kernel configuration files would be required. >> >> You can have my simple flat file kernel config when you pry it from >> my cold, dead hands and I know a number of other develoeprs share >> this viewpoint. All my experiences with the linux visual kernel >> config tool have been annoying and I've got friends with more >> expierence with it that have much less kind things to say. > > Add me to the list. And this realates to sys/conf/* as well > (respondig to the re-reply). Especially developers prefer *clean*, > *simple* config files and I (personally) would really really hate to > twiddle with some insane XML just to add something to the build! Oh, agreed, definitely. Wasn't even thinking XML (yuck!). :-) Basically, I'm just thinking of a layout which, in the simplest, cleanest manner possible, would allow a "make config"-like tool to extract the information it needed, so options could be presented to the user along with their descriptions, if so desired. I don't have a clear-cut idea just yet of how this might be done, to be honest. :-) >> That said, so long as it doesn't impose too much developer burden, >> an improved set of backend files that did a better job of handling >> dependencies and knew which options where relevent given the >> configured set of devices could be useful. > > http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.3R/todo.html has a "Desired > features"-item saying: "Revised kld build infrastructure", which > will pretty much interfere with this. You might want to contact with > the current owner (peter@) and hear what he has to say. Thanks for the pointer. I'll check into that. > Other than that, I'd welcome a somewhat enriched config > environment as long as it is done reasonable and makes the job > easier! And please: NO XML! Cool. And not to worry. No XML. :-) >> There is a valid question of what a depenency means. For instance, >> you can't really have IP networking without lo(4) (there's a null >> pointer derefrence if you try), but since you can load it as a >> module, should you have to compile it in? > > There should be levels of dependencies ... i.e. the TBD config-tool > would (strongly) suggest that you build-in lo(4) into an "options > INET" kernel, but should not stop you to do else. Exactly. That's the sort of thing I had in mind. I realize this is a fairly large undertaking, and hearing that others have already made attempts but have yet to produce anything makes me a little uncertain about it all, but I do think it's something worth exploring. And it'll keep me off the streets and out of trouble for a good while, too. :-) If I manage to come up with anything reasonable, you'll hear about it here. Incidentally, is anyone else's mail to freebsd-config bouncing? =======BOUNCE MESSAGE====== This is the Postfix program at host hub.freebsd.org. I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned below could not be delivered to one or more destinations. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the message returned below. The Postfix program : Command died with status 1: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post freebsd-config". Command output: post script, list not found: freebsd-config -- Conrad J. Sabatier -- "In Unix veritas" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 07:02:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013B816A4CE; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:02:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wolf.bytecraft.au.com (wolf.bytecraft.au.com [203.39.118.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148F143D31; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:02:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from murraytaylor@bytecraftsystems.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])i6L71s41000381; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:01:54 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from murraytaylor@bytecraftsystems.com) Received: from wolf.bytecraft.au.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (wolf.bytecraft.au.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 93279-01; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:01:54 +1000 (EST) Received: from svmarshal.bytecraft.au.com ([10.0.0.4])i6L71nAF000379; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:01:50 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from murraytaylor@bytecraftsystems.com) Received: from wombat.bytecraft.au.com (Not Verified[10.0.0.3]) by svmarshal.bytecraft.au.com with MailMarshal (v5,0,3,78) id ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:01:49 +1000 Received: from [10.0.17.42] (wstaylorm.dand06.au.bytecraft.au.com [10.0.17.42]) by wombat.bytecraft.au.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219363F0F; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:01:42 +1000 (EST) From: Murray Taylor To: conrads@cox.net In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Bytecraft Systems Message-Id: <1090393301.2180.77.camel@wstaylorm.dand06.au.bytecraft.au.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:01:41 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Max Laier cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:02:19 -0000 On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 11:53, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > On 21-Jul-2004 Max Laier wrote: > > On Wednesday 21 July 2004 03:03, Brooks Davis wrote: > >> On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:39:31PM -0500, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > [snip] > >> > A dependable tool offering a menu-driven means of configuring the > >> > kernel, ensuring proper config file syntax, dependency handling, > >> > prevention of incompatible options, etc. -- as well as online > >> > documentation, advice, suggestions and warnings, plus perhaps a > >> > nice set of default selections -- would be a very nice addition to > >> > the system. But to bring it about, obviously a major reworking of > >> > the current system of kernel configuration files would be required. > >> > >> You can have my simple flat file kernel config when you pry it from > >> my cold, dead hands and I know a number of other develoeprs share > >> this viewpoint. All my experiences with the linux visual kernel > >> config tool have been annoying and I've got friends with more > >> expierence with it that have much less kind things to say. > > > > Add me to the list. And this realates to sys/conf/* as well > > (respondig to the re-reply). Especially developers prefer *clean*, > > *simple* config files and I (personally) would really really hate to > > twiddle with some insane XML just to add something to the build! > > Oh, agreed, definitely. Wasn't even thinking XML (yuck!). :-) > > Basically, I'm just thinking of a layout which, in the simplest, > cleanest manner possible, would allow a "make config"-like tool to > extract the information it needed, so options could be presented to > the user along with their descriptions, if so desired. I don't have a > clear-cut idea just yet of how this might be done, to be honest. :-) > > >> That said, so long as it doesn't impose too much developer burden, > >> an improved set of backend files that did a better job of handling > >> dependencies and knew which options where relevent given the > >> configured set of devices could be useful. > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.3R/todo.html has a "Desired > > features"-item saying: "Revised kld build infrastructure", which > > will pretty much interfere with this. You might want to contact with > > the current owner (peter@) and hear what he has to say. > > Thanks for the pointer. I'll check into that. > > > Other than that, I'd welcome a somewhat enriched config > > environment as long as it is done reasonable and makes the job > > easier! And please: NO XML! > > Cool. And not to worry. No XML. :-) > > >> There is a valid question of what a depenency means. For instance, > >> you can't really have IP networking without lo(4) (there's a null > >> pointer derefrence if you try), but since you can load it as a > >> module, should you have to compile it in? > > > > There should be levels of dependencies ... i.e. the TBD config-tool > > would (strongly) suggest that you build-in lo(4) into an "options > > INET" kernel, but should not stop you to do else. > > Exactly. That's the sort of thing I had in mind. > > I realize this is a fairly large undertaking, and hearing that others > have already made attempts but have yet to produce anything makes me a > little uncertain about it all, but I do think it's something worth > exploring. And it'll keep me off the streets and out of trouble for a > good while, too. :-) > > If I manage to come up with anything reasonable, you'll hear about it > here. As an initial starting point for 'preloading' any menubased kernel configurator, could the file /var/run/dmesg.boot be usefully parsed as a list of 'this is what is actually installed in this box, what else do you want to add?" Of course any output developed on a run of the configurator would/could/should be scanned as well to include answers to the question.."What did I include last time?" 0.02c -- Murray Taylor Special Projects Engineer --------------------------------- Bytecraft Systems & Entertainment P: +61 3 8710 2555 F: +61 3 8710 2599 D: +61 3 9238 4275 M: +61 417 319 256 E: murraytaylor@bytecraftsystems.com or visit us on the web http://www.bytecraftsystems.com http://www.bytecraftentertainment.com --------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of it, or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons and/or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please inform the sender and/or addressee immediately and delete the material. E-mails may not be secure, may contain computer viruses and may be corrupted in transmission. Please carefully check this e-mail (and any attachment) accordingly. No warranties are given and no liability is accepted for any loss or damage caused by such matters. --------------------------------------------------------------- **************************************************************** This Email has been scanned for Viruses by MailMarshal. **************************************************************** From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 02:47:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0FBB16A4CE for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:47:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from creme-brulee.marcuscom.com (rrcs-midsouth-24-172-16-118.biz.rr.com [24.172.16.118]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91DE543D64 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:47:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marcus@marcuscom.com) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (shumai.marcuscom.com [192.168.1.4]) i6L2lYli024768 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:47:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from marcus@marcuscom.com) From: Joe Marcus Clarke To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-fHBrVFSMzkSdd9YbK1eN" Organization: MarcusCom, Inc. Message-Id: <1090378066.90026.105.camel@shumai.marcuscom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:47:47 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on creme-brulee.marcuscom.com X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:44:43 +0000 Subject: Getting a fully-qualified path from a PID X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:47:50 -0000 --=-fHBrVFSMzkSdd9YbK1eN Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What is the canonical way for a userland application to get the fully-qualified path of an executable from its running PID? I know I can do a readlink(2) on /proc/pid/file, but procfs is deprecated on 5.X, correct? Is there a more appropriate way to do this? Thanks. Joe --=20 PGP Key : http://www.marcuscom.com/pgp.asc --=-fHBrVFSMzkSdd9YbK1eN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBA/dlSb2iPiv4Uz4cRAoHlAJ4/E3z6LJnf0fWUR5HzA65nZ06OGACfS5H7 uZKxyebTgXDrF14bp/ObULw= =lxbT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-fHBrVFSMzkSdd9YbK1eN-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 12:43:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB6F516A4CE; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:43:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from keylime.silverwraith.com (keylime.silverwraith.com [69.55.228.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9483B43D1F; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:43:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lists-freebsd@silverwraith.com) Received: from keylime.silverwraith.com ([69.55.228.10]) by keylime.silverwraith.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34; FreeBSD) id 1BnGRm-0003KN-1B; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 05:43:46 -0700 Received: (from avleen@localhost)i6LChjlt012794; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 05:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lists-freebsd@silverwraith.com) X-Authentication-Warning: keylime.silverwraith.com: avleen set sender to lists-freebsd@silverwraith.com using -f Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 05:43:45 -0700 From: Avleen Vig To: "Conrad J. Sabatier" Message-ID: <20040721124345.GB99978@silverwraith.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Spam-Score: -100.0 (---------------------------------------------------) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "keylime.silverwraith.com", hasmessageblock similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:39:31PM -0500, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > Just musing on an idea here: > > I've been thinking for a while now about trying to write a tool to make > kernel configuration easier, sort of a "make config" (as in ports) for > the [...] Content analysis details: (-100.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description -------------------------------------------------- -100 USER_IN_WHITELIST From: address is in the user's white-list cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:43:48 -0000 On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:39:31PM -0500, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > Just musing on an idea here: > > I've been thinking for a while now about trying to write a tool to make > kernel configuration easier, sort of a "make config" (as in ports) for > the kernel, similar to what's available on some of the Linux distros. I've read over the other posts in this thread, but I cannot say I think this is a good idea. In fact, I think it's a very bad idea, but with very good intentions. Here's why.. I'm a strong proponent of user education. The FreeBSD handbook is one of the best education tools for someone who wants to use FreeBSD, right from beginner to more advanced levels. A "config tool", while useful for beginners, would quickly result is those beginners not learning about building a kernel themselves, copying GENERIC to `hostname -s | tr "[:lower:]" "[:upper:]"`, editing it, learning what is in LINT, remembering to look through there, etc. This process teaches users a lot about how a BSD kernel is configured, what options are availible, and where to look for more options. The end result would be more people building kernels themselves, but not knowing what is actually happening, or what more is possible. It would mean less educated users, and I don't think that is somewhere any organization needs to go (look at what happened to the average Microsoft user's IQ level, after people stopped using DOS and started having machines do the work for them). Like I said, I think your intentions are good, but I have concerns about the suggested solution. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 12:52:09 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E3816A4CE; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:52:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from amsfep17-int.chello.nl (amsfep17-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98A6B43D64; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:52:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from [192.168.1.155] (really [213.46.199.67]) by amsfep17-int.chello.nlESMTP <20040721125207.XNGQ15982.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@[192.168.1.155]>; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:52:07 +0200 Message-ID: <40FE66F7.2050006@sitetronics.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 14:52:07 +0200 From: "Devon H. O'Dell" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.1 (Windows/20040626) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Avleen Vig References: <20040721124345.GB99978@silverwraith.com> In-Reply-To: <20040721124345.GB99978@silverwraith.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:52:09 -0000 Avleen Vig wrote: > On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:39:31PM -0500, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > >>Just musing on an idea here: >> >>I've been thinking for a while now about trying to write a tool to make >>kernel configuration easier, sort of a "make config" (as in ports) for >>the kernel, similar to what's available on some of the Linux distros. > > > I've read over the other posts in this thread, but I cannot say I think > this is a good idea. In fact, I think it's a very bad idea, but with > very good intentions. Here's why.. > > I'm a strong proponent of user education. The FreeBSD handbook is one of > the best education tools for someone who wants to use FreeBSD, right > from beginner to more advanced levels. > > A "config tool", while useful for beginners, would quickly result is > those beginners not learning about building a kernel themselves, copying > GENERIC to `hostname -s | tr "[:lower:]" "[:upper:]"`, editing it, > learning what is in LINT, remembering to look through there, etc. > This process teaches users a lot about how a BSD kernel is configured, > what options are availible, and where to look for more options. > > The end result would be more people building kernels themselves, but not > knowing what is actually happening, or what more is possible. It would > mean less educated users, and I don't think that is somewhere any > organization needs to go (look at what happened to the average Microsoft > user's IQ level, after people stopped using DOS and started having > machines do the work for them). > > Like I said, I think your intentions are good, but I have concerns about > the suggested solution. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > I wholly disagree. I think using an excuse ``people will let everything else do the work for them and nobody will ever learn'' to discourage the development of automation tools is very poor. Try applying that argument to any utility that you use. You'd have to write your own bloody operating system because ``learning's in your best interest''. I'm sure this will become another bikeshed, so I suggest whoever came up with the idea to put up or shut up. People are interested in solutions, not suggestions. --Devon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 15:12:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8DE816A4CE for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 15:12:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FC3E43D4C for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 15:12:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) id i6LFCKqu007645; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:12:20 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:12:20 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Joe Marcus Clarke Message-ID: <20040721151220.GB42575@dan.emsphone.com> References: <1090378066.90026.105.camel@shumai.marcuscom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1090378066.90026.105.camel@shumai.marcuscom.com> X-OS: FreeBSD 5.2-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Getting a fully-qualified path from a PID X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 15:12:21 -0000 In the last episode (Jul 20), Joe Marcus Clarke said: > What is the canonical way for a userland application to get the > fully-qualified path of an executable from its running PID? I know I > can do a readlink(2) on /proc/pid/file, but procfs is deprecated on > 5.X, correct? Is there a more appropriate way to do this? Thanks. realpath(argv[0]) works for commands not run from $PATH. Commands found through a PATH earch will just have the basename in argv[0] so you would have to check each PATH element until you found it. Note that /proc/pid/file won't work if vn_fullpath() fails (say the orignal file has been unlinked, or the filename has expired from the kernel's cache). If you are examining another process, you can use the kvm_getargv() and kvm_getenvv() functions to fetch argv[0] and PATH out of the target process. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 16:59:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDACB16A4CE for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:59:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9809543D5A for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:59:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andrei@kableu.com) Received: from h-68-164-89-115.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.89.115] helo=root.kableu.com) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BnKRS-000411-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:59:42 -0700 Received: by root.kableu.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 84C4E5C69; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:00:19 -0700 From: Andrew Konstantinov To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040721170019.GA88303@root.kableu.com> References: <20040721124345.GB99978@silverwraith.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040721124345.GB99978@silverwraith.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:59:42 -0000 --xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 05:43:45AM -0700, Avleen Vig wrote: > On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:39:31PM -0500, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > > Just musing on an idea here: > >=20 > > I've been thinking for a while now about trying to write a tool to make > > kernel configuration easier, sort of a "make config" (as in ports) for > > the kernel, similar to what's available on some of the Linux distros. >=20 > I've read over the other posts in this thread, but I cannot say I think > this is a good idea. In fact, I think it's a very bad idea, but with > very good intentions. Here's why.. >=20 > I'm a strong proponent of user education. The FreeBSD handbook is one of > the best education tools for someone who wants to use FreeBSD, right > from beginner to more advanced levels. >=20 > A "config tool", while useful for beginners, would quickly result is > those beginners not learning about building a kernel themselves, copying > GENERIC to `hostname -s | tr "[:lower:]" "[:upper:]"`, editing it, > learning what is in LINT, remembering to look through there, etc. > This process teaches users a lot about how a BSD kernel is configured, > what options are availible, and where to look for more options. >=20 > The end result would be more people building kernels themselves, but not > knowing what is actually happening, or what more is possible. It would > mean less educated users, and I don't think that is somewhere any > organization needs to go (look at what happened to the average Microsoft > user's IQ level, after people stopped using DOS and started having > machines do the work for them). >=20 > Like I said, I think your intentions are good, but I have concerns about > the suggested solution. I think such a tool would actually influence user education in a positive w= ay. Here is a sample scenario: 1) User starts this "program" to configure the kernel 2) User sees unknown to him option 3) User decides to look it up on www.google.com 4) "That's a nice feature, although I don't really need it" 5) GOTO 1 The only suggestion I have is to make it a third party program and not buil= d it into the make procedure for the kernel. It would look like pkg_tree that's located in ports, although with a better ncurses interface. Andrew --xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFA/qEj5Jhyz2/cFigRAgc3AKC2Nw5cnKbaZm+boXY3yqywM5qkdQCfdm81 9/XhZq3vPnMT2uIc5q1a4Qw= =Kgno -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 17:25:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A5B16A4CE for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:25:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from crumpet.united-ware.com (ddsl-66-42-172-210.fuse.net [66.42.172.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520B543D2F for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:25:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mistry.7@osu.edu) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (ddsl-66-42-172-210.fuse.net [66.42.172.210]) (authenticated bits=0)i6LHFK2S009827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:15:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mistry.7@osu.edu) From: Anish Mistry To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:26:16 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <20040721124345.GB99978@silverwraith.com> <20040721170019.GA88303@root.kableu.com> In-Reply-To: <20040721170019.GA88303@root.kableu.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200407211326.24064.mistry.7@osu.edu> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,PGP_SIGNATURE, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_ORBS,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_KMAIL version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:25:25 -0000 =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 21 July 2004 01:00 pm, Andrew Konstantinov wrote: > On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 05:43:45AM -0700, Avleen Vig wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:39:31PM -0500, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > > > Just musing on an idea here: > > > > > > I've been thinking for a while now about trying to write a tool to ma= ke > > > kernel configuration easier, sort of a "make config" (as in ports) for > > > the kernel, similar to what's available on some of the Linux distros. > > > > I've read over the other posts in this thread, but I cannot say I think > > this is a good idea. In fact, I think it's a very bad idea, but with > > very good intentions. Here's why.. > > > > I'm a strong proponent of user education. The FreeBSD handbook is one of > > the best education tools for someone who wants to use FreeBSD, right > > from beginner to more advanced levels. > > > > A "config tool", while useful for beginners, would quickly result is > > those beginners not learning about building a kernel themselves, copying > > GENERIC to `hostname -s | tr "[:lower:]" "[:upper:]"`, editing it, > > learning what is in LINT, remembering to look through there, etc. > > This process teaches users a lot about how a BSD kernel is configured, > > what options are availible, and where to look for more options. > > > > The end result would be more people building kernels themselves, but not > > knowing what is actually happening, or what more is possible. It would > > mean less educated users, and I don't think that is somewhere any > > organization needs to go (look at what happened to the average Microsoft > > user's IQ level, after people stopped using DOS and started having > > machines do the work for them). > > > > Like I said, I think your intentions are good, but I have concerns about > > the suggested solution. > > I think such a tool would actually influence user education in a positive > way. Here is a sample scenario: > > 1) User starts this "program" to configure the kernel > 2) User sees unknown to him option > 3) User decides to look it up on www.google.com > 4) "That's a nice feature, although I don't really need it" > 5) GOTO 1 > > The only suggestion I have is to make it a third party program and not > build it into the make procedure for the kernel. It would look like > pkg_tree that's located in ports, although with a better ncurses interfac= e. > > Andrew I think a tool with the functionality described in the original post would = be=20 very nice, but it shouldn't be menu driven etc. Something more like a kern= el=20 dependency checker that would take the kernel config file, and check that a= ll=20 the dependencies are correct. ie. for umass you need da, but if you forget= =20 you'll only get a cryptic failing of the kernel build. Also for things lik= e=20 bktr, which you need to have iic and friends. Something along the lines of a command line "make depend-check" before you = do=20 a make kernel would be nice. =2D --=20 Anish Mistry =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFA/qc/xqA5ziudZT0RAhLQAJ9HvvtFjmvOkP7hCX4nNR4LGbeMmACgr4vi gQGqNJyVysUTFlisDYohF+8=3D =3DgXI8 =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 18:12:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0CD416A4CE; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:12:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.village.org [168.103.84.182]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D9EF43D3F; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:12:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6LICDR7062603; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:12:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20040721.121215.133913328.imp@bsdimp.com> To: murraytaylor@bytecraftsystems.com From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <1090393301.2180.77.camel@wstaylorm.dand06.au.bytecraft.au.com> References: <1090393301.2180.77.camel@wstaylorm.dand06.au.bytecraft.au.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: max@love2party.net cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:12:49 -0000 In message: <1090393301.2180.77.camel@wstaylorm.dand06.au.bytecraft.au.com> Murray Taylor writes: : As an initial starting point for 'preloading' any menubased kernel : configurator, could the file /var/run/dmesg.boot be usefully parsed as : a list of 'this is what is actually installed in this box, what else do : you want to add?" Of course any output developed on a run of the : configurator would/could/should be scanned as well to include answers to : the question.."What did I include last time?" if devd could map, somehow, the pnp info into drivers to load, that would solve this problem. warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 20:40:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0B5616A4CE for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:40:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cruzio.com (dsl3-63-249-85-132.cruzio.com [63.249.85.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A5543D1F for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:40:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6LKf5au001765 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:41:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: (from brucem@localhost) by mail.cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i6LKf5MO001764 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:41:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brucem) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 13:41:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bruce R. Montague" Message-Id: <200407212041.i6LKf5MO001764@mail.cruzio.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:40:16 -0000 Hi, re, "Next Generation" kernel configuration: Years ago I had a job for a few years where I constantly built RSX-11 systems on PDP-11s. RSX-11 was always built from source and had a couple of hundred build-time options, many hardware build dependencies, and supported numerous other dynamic build-time functions; it was said that it was possible that no 2 RSX systems were really the same binaries. It may have been more combinatorially complex than FreeBSD. An RSX build could easily take a day. Although at the core the build was driven by a file of assembly macro defines, conceptually not unlike FreeBSD, the build process went through continuous evolution over the life of RSX. A comprehensive "sysgen.bat" script, or somesuch, evolved. Sysgen (which was a common industry term at the time) was a very large script that was intended to be run on a fast hard-copy decwriter; it printed out lists of possibilities and then asked you a question, you made a selection from the options, and so on. It conducted a 'scripted dialog' that reflected the options you made along the way. You wanted this on hard copy so you could go back and check things, keep it for next time, and so on. You could go back in the dialog and repeat a section, save the sysgen state and restart later, and so on. A sysgen dialog could easily take half-a-day (sometimes intermediate things had to be built and such), and then the build itself and install could take a number of hours... At the end of the sysgen dialog you could "save the session", basically, and then the next time you did a session you could ask to use the saved session and essentially conduct a "modification dialog". Working with sysgen often felt like taking part in an adventure game with an AI opponent; you had to know how to outsmart the script to get it to do exactly what you wanted. This might be a common failing of many pseudo AI type programs. On the one had this all worked and worked well. On the other hand if you can do it by simply editing flat files it's much better, because you don't have to become an expert on the sysgen script just to do a build. Back on the other hand, there may be a point of complexity (and lack of corresponding widespread sophistication) where a sysgen program is necessary. SO: If a sysgen-like program was built for FreeBSD that used a conversational, graphic, menu, or whatever interface, instead of actually doing anything to real files or the real system, could it just print out _what to do_, that is, it would output a list of instructions - in such-and-such a file, edit this option, then add this line... Or perhaps it would output diffs to files... or put the output in a "candidate" location. But in any case the program would be a SYSGEN ASSISTANT, not an actual sysgen program. Basically a "kernel config checker", a smart build-lint, etc.. It could live in ports. If this program got to where it really worked, everyone liked the interface, and the system complexity was clearly at the point where it was needed, it could be used to directly generate system configurations. The dependency-rule evaluation and output part could be built independent of any user-interface, so a front-end back-end scheme might make sense. In any case, googling on "RSX sysgen" might produce some ideas of interest. BTW, I'm under the impression that for quite some time the largest rule-based AI application ("real-time expert system") in the world was the OPS5 system implemented at DEC to configure VAX hardware, see links such as: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/OPS5%20rule%20based It looks like there's a public domain system that compiles rules to C code, perhaps there are some interesting ideas there as well for things like general dependency rule evaluation in the backend and such: http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/areas/expert/systems/ops5/0.html Sorry to go on at length. - bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 22 07:42:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EA8D16A4CE for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:42:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from keylime.silverwraith.com (keylime.silverwraith.com [69.55.228.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D6043D3F for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:42:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lists-freebsd@silverwraith.com) Received: from keylime.silverwraith.com ([69.55.228.10]) by keylime.silverwraith.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34; FreeBSD) id 1BnYDU-000Mb2-5q; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:12 -0700 Received: (from avleen@localhost)i6M7gBw8086863; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lists-freebsd@silverwraith.com) X-Authentication-Warning: keylime.silverwraith.com: avleen set sender to lists-freebsd@silverwraith.com using -f Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:42:11 -0700 From: Avleen Vig To: "Devon H. O'Dell" Message-ID: <20040722074211.GL99978@silverwraith.com> References: <20040721124345.GB99978@silverwraith.com> <40FE66F7.2050006@sitetronics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40FE66F7.2050006@sitetronics.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Spam-Score: -100.0 (---------------------------------------------------) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "keylime.silverwraith.com", hasmessageblock similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 02:52:07PM +0200, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > I wholly disagree. I think using an excuse ``people will let everything > else do the work for them and nobody will ever learn'' to discourage the > development of automation tools is very poor. Try applying that argument > to any utility that you use. You'd have to write your own bloody > operating system because ``learning's bikeshed, so I suggest whoever came up > with the idea to put up or shut up. People are interested in solutions, > not suggestions. [...] Content analysis details: (-100.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description -------------------------------------------------- -100 USER_IN_WHITELIST From: address is in the user's white-list cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:42:15 -0000 On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 02:52:07PM +0200, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > I wholly disagree. I think using an excuse ``people will let everything > else do the work for them and nobody will ever learn'' to discourage the > development of automation tools is very poor. Try applying that argument > to any utility that you use. You'd have to write your own bloody > operating system because ``learning's in your best interest''. > I'm sure this will become another bikeshed, so I suggest whoever came up > with the idea to put up or shut up. People are interested in solutions, > not suggestions. You confuse automation, with simplification. Automation tools are good for frequently re-run tasks. How often do you recompile your kernel? .... exactly. -- Avleen Vig Systems Administrator Personal: www.silverwraith.com EFnet: irc.mindspring.com (Earthlink user access only) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 22 07:57:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA5316A4CE for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:57:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail018.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail018.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.72]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AC9643D53 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:57:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (c211-30-75-229.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.30.75.229]) i6M7vPF04046; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:57:26 +1000 Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (localhost.alcatel.com.au [127.0.0.1])i6M7vOVd009300; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:57:24 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au) Received: (from pjeremy@localhost)i6M7vNTm009299; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:57:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:57:23 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Charles Sprickman Message-ID: <20040722075723.GE3001@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> References: <20040719191408.V28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> <20040720021432.O28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> <20040720092848.GD3001@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> <20040720135157.Q28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040720135157.Q28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: disk recovery help X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:57:36 -0000 On Tue, 2004-Jul-20 14:01:06 -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote: >On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Peter Jeremy wrote: > >> It's difficult to see how a sanely written RAID utility could totally >> screw up an array in a short time Upon reflection, one obvious way is to change the array layout. I don't know enough about your configuration and Adaptec's raidutil to know if this is likely. >command does, but they are fairly certain that it writes it's config at >the end of the disk, then zeros it from the outside in. Which puts an upper limit on the amount of damage done. The only difficulty with this is that (ISTR) your filesystem begins at the beginning of the array so the primary superblock should be the first thing over-written - and fsck would whinge loudly about that. >grabbed the dd "image" before that. An fsck on the problem partition ran >for 12 hours and I don't know how far along it was. Ctrl-T (aka SIGINFO) is your friend - fsck will tell you how far through its current phase it is. > I looked at scan_ffs >just now, and it looks like it works on the whole disk trying to find the >label. Since I only have one partition, there's no label. scan_ffs searches the disk (or file) looking for UFS superblocks. The most common reason for needing this is to re-generate your partition tables. I was hoping it would also locate all the superblocks - which would let you verify that the structure looked reasonably sane. You might also try fsdb(8) - though I think it relies on the primary superblock being sane. Good luck. -- Peter Jeremy From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 22 11:43:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C67A516A4CE; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:43:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lakermmtao04.cox.net (lakermmtao04.cox.net [68.230.240.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4413443D45; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:43:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from conrads@cox.net) Received: from dolphin.local.net ([68.11.71.51]) by lakermmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02.01 201-2131-111-104-103-20040709) with ESMTP id <20040722114341.OJQJ9654.lakermmtao04.cox.net@dolphin.local.net>; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:43:41 -0400 Received: from dolphin.local.net (localhost.local.net [127.0.0.1]) by dolphin.local.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6MBhevE004729; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:43:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads@dolphin.local.net) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by dolphin.local.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i6MBheht004728; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:43:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.5 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20040721.121215.133913328.imp@bsdimp.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:43:40 -0500 (CDT) Organization: A Rag-Tag Band of Drug-Crazed Hippies From: "Conrad J. Sabatier" To: "M. Warner Losh" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: murraytaylor@bytecraftsystems.com cc: max@love2party.net cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: conrads@cox.net List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:43:42 -0000 On 21-Jul-2004 M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: > <1090393301.2180.77.camel@wstaylorm.dand06.au.bytecraft.au.com> > Murray Taylor writes: >: As an initial starting point for 'preloading' any menubased kernel >: configurator, could the file /var/run/dmesg.boot be usefully parsed >: as >: a list of 'this is what is actually installed in this box, what else >: do >: you want to add?" Of course any output developed on a run of the >: configurator would/could/should be scanned as well to include >: answers to >: the question.."What did I include last time?" > > if devd could map, somehow, the pnp info into drivers to load, that > would solve this problem. > > warner Interesting ideas. Saving all this stuff in my "suggestion box". :-) -- Conrad J. Sabatier -- "In Unix veritas" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 22 11:49:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D9916A4CE; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:49:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lakermmtao10.cox.net (lakermmtao10.cox.net [68.230.240.29]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B17B43D45; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:49:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from conrads@cox.net) Received: from dolphin.local.net ([68.11.71.51]) by lakermmtao10.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02.01 201-2131-111-104-103-20040709) with ESMTP <20040722114922.QDMK20727.lakermmtao10.cox.net@dolphin.local.net>; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:49:22 -0400 Received: from dolphin.local.net (localhost.local.net [127.0.0.1]) by dolphin.local.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6MBnLUm004790; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:49:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads@dolphin.local.net) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by dolphin.local.net (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i6MBnLx1004789; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:49:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.5 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <40FE66F7.2050006@sitetronics.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 06:49:21 -0500 (CDT) Organization: A Rag-Tag Band of Drug-Crazed Hippies From: "Conrad J. Sabatier" To: "Devon H. O'Dell" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: conrads@cox.net List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:49:23 -0000 On 21-Jul-2004 Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > I'm sure this will become another bikeshed, so I suggest whoever came > up with the idea to put up or shut up. People are interested in > solutions, not suggestions. Agreed. And the original proponent of the idea was me. I just wanted to see if there was any willingness to even consider something like this before I went and did a lot of work for nothing. Seems the general concensus is that most people are OK with the idea, depending on the implementation. I'll be quiet now until/unless I can actually come up with something. :-) -- Conrad J. Sabatier -- "In Unix veritas" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 16:27:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F70A16A508 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:27:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from creme-brulee.marcuscom.com (rrcs-midsouth-24-172-16-118.biz.rr.com [24.172.16.118]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C70643D46 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:27:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marcus@marcuscom.com) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (shumai.marcuscom.com [192.168.1.4]) i6LGQv9Q030829; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:26:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from marcus@marcuscom.com) From: Joe Marcus Clarke To: Dan Nelson In-Reply-To: <20040721151220.GB42575@dan.emsphone.com> References: <1090378066.90026.105.camel@shumai.marcuscom.com> <20040721151220.GB42575@dan.emsphone.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-vwkcduZ6DhAn4TGXHxYZ" Organization: MarcusCom, Inc. Message-Id: <1090427233.29242.9.camel@shumai.marcuscom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:27:13 -0400 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on creme-brulee.marcuscom.com X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:52:30 +0000 cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Getting a fully-qualified path from a PID X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:27:20 -0000 --=-vwkcduZ6DhAn4TGXHxYZ Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 11:12, Dan Nelson wrote: > In the last episode (Jul 20), Joe Marcus Clarke said: > > What is the canonical way for a userland application to get the > > fully-qualified path of an executable from its running PID? I know I > > can do a readlink(2) on /proc/pid/file, but procfs is deprecated on > > 5.X, correct? Is there a more appropriate way to do this? Thanks. >=20 > realpath(argv[0]) works for commands not run from $PATH. Commands found > through a PATH earch will just have the basename in argv[0] so you > would have to check each PATH element until you found it. Note that > /proc/pid/file won't work if vn_fullpath() fails (say the orignal file > has been unlinked, or the filename has expired from the kernel's > cache). >=20 > If you are examining another process, you can use the kvm_getargv() and > kvm_getenvv() functions to fetch argv[0] and PATH out of the target > process. Okay, I was thinking about that. What I was specifically interested in was processes spawned from $PATH, so realpath isn't going to be much good to me there. I didn't know if there was a better way than getting the environ+argv with kvm, then searching each path element. Thanks for the clarification. Joe --=20 PGP Key : http://www.marcuscom.com/pgp.asc --=-vwkcduZ6DhAn4TGXHxYZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBA/plhb2iPiv4Uz4cRAsVgAKCXkDIjXKLx3QwGv6xxIFCZulXcRQCfRlRj kS0GJ+63sDGBRnvpPPoIBb0= =36HK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-vwkcduZ6DhAn4TGXHxYZ-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 22 12:10:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB51F16A4CE for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:10:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mps2.plala.or.jp (c145240.vh.plala.or.jp [210.150.145.240]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFDA143D54 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:10:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from e-kamo@trio.plala.or.jp) Received: from msvc1.plala.or.jp ([172.23.8.209]) by mps2.plala.or.jp with SMTP id <20040722121031.RYMC18503.mps2.plala.or.jp@msvc1.plala.or.jp> for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:10:31 +0900 Received: ( 18779 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2004 21:10:30 +0900 X-SVCK: Received: from unknown (HELO mpb1.plala.or.jp) (172.23.8.16) by msvc1 with SMTP; 22 Jul 2004 21:10:29 +0900 Received: from trio.plala.or.jp ([219.25.148.126]) by mpb1.plala.or.jp with ESMTP id <20040722121028.MQSM19716.mpb1.plala.or.jp@trio.plala.or.jp>; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:10:28 +0900 Message-ID: <40FFB05C.5050203@trio.plala.or.jp> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:17:32 +0900 From: Eitarou Kamo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, spork@fasttrackmonkey.com References: <20040719191408.V28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> <20040720021432.O28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> <40FD011B.1020504@trio.plala.or.jp> <20040720140124.E28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> <40FDF976.8040200@trio.plala.or.jp> In-Reply-To: <40FDF976.8040200@trio.plala.or.jp> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.8.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: disk recovery help X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:10:36 -0000 Hi Charles, I sent this message. But SpamCop.net had listed my ISP address. I received undelivered message. So I will send again. Eitarou Eitarou Kamo wrote: > Hi, > > How about this? > > 1. You mount dd.img as vn0 like this in your free space. > > #vnconfig vn0 dd.img > # mount /dev/vn0c /mnt > > 2. archive or dump whole data of the /mnt. > > 3. restore archived data to /dev/ad3s1h after create file system. > > FSCK failed because you set the bs=1024 in the dd command, > I guess. > > Charles Sprickman wrote: > >> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Eitarou Kamo wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- *********************** Eitarou Kamo Tel. +81 75 7035997 Fax +81 75 7035997 VoIP 050 10585997(domestic only) e-mail e-kamo@trio.plala.or.jp For business: Feel free to mail me(above), please. Donation http://www.PayPal.Com GPG FingerPrint: 032D FDF9 D27B 23F7 9A81 BF4C 626C FBAA BC3A 9895 ************************************************************************ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 22 15:21:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FCB216A4CE for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:21:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from north-zone.net (wh1.north-zone.net [65.110.60.200]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DF8A43D1D for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:21:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nicobn@quebecbsd.org) Received: (qmail 37604 invoked by uid 80); 22 Jul 2004 15:25:02 -0000 Received: from 69.70.227.33 (SquirrelMail authenticated user nicobn@quebecbsd.org) by webmail.north-zone.net with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:25:02 -0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3523.69.70.227.33.1090509902.squirrel@webmail.north-zone.net> In-Reply-To: <20040722074211.GL99978@silverwraith.com> References: <20040721124345.GB99978@silverwraith.com> <40FE66F7.2050006@sitetronics.com> <20040722074211.GL99978@silverwraith.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:25:02 -0000 (GMT) From: Nicolas =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9rard_Nault?= To: "Avleen Vig" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: nicobn@quebecbsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:21:26 -0000 > You confuse automation, with simplification. > Automation tools are good for frequently re-run tasks. > How often do you recompile your kernel? > > .... exactly. In my opinion, the least we could do is have it as a port/package. For the make check dependencies, that could be a great idea to commit because right now, unless your kernel doesn't compile our your computer doesn't start, there's no way to know you forgot something. The debate here is automation vs. simplification. Why we shouldn't simplificate the kernel compile ? Because our user base's average IQ will be lower ? We're not suggesting to have KDE installed by default here. Users would still to have to type the commands to compile the kernel by hand and do a little research about the options they enabled. XFree86 has ncurses/graphic configuration utilities. Why the kernel shouldn't ? -- Nicolas Bérard Nault (nicobn@quebecbsd.org) http://staff.xeatech.net/nicobn PGP public key: 0x64159509 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 23 00:33:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 835C316A4CE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:33:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wolf.bytecraft.au.com (wolf.bytecraft.au.com [203.39.118.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BA3643D53 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:33:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from murraytaylor@bytecraftsystems.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])i6N0Xo41097208; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:33:50 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from murraytaylor@bytecraftsystems.com) Received: from wolf.bytecraft.au.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (wolf.bytecraft.au.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 94544-03; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:33:50 +1000 (EST) Received: from svmarshal.bytecraft.au.com ([10.0.0.4])i6N0XnAF097206; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:33:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from murraytaylor@bytecraftsystems.com) Received: from wombat.bytecraft.au.com (Not Verified[10.0.0.3]) by svmarshal.bytecraft.au.com with MailMarshal (v5,0,3,78) id ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:33:49 +1000 Received: from [10.0.17.42] (wstaylorm.dand06.au.bytecraft.au.com [10.0.17.42]) by wombat.bytecraft.au.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A693F0F; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:33:45 +1000 (EST) From: Murray Taylor To: "Bruce R. Montague" In-Reply-To: <200407212041.i6LKf5MO001764@mail.cruzio.com> References: <200407212041.i6LKf5MO001764@mail.cruzio.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Bytecraft Systems Message-Id: <1090542824.22973.25.camel@wstaylorm.dand06.au.bytecraft.au.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:33:44 +1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:33:54 -0000 Mmmm... I had something similar (much smaller) supplied with my Cromemco Z-80 CROMIX system... early 80's for the historical. You were prompted through a series of questions re the desired requirements for i/o devices etc. and then the last step would rebuild the 'kernel' to that configuration. It wasn't actually doing a full build as all the supplied stuff came out of linkable libraries, BUT one could use an assembler 'template' to create ones own device drivers for the homebrewed 'MummbleFrotz' device. These 'user-created drivers' were then assembled, loaded into your own library and became a linkable element from then onwards that you could add during any subsequent 'kernel rebuilds' If I remember correctly- the main elements of the template were - an entry 'jump table' for such things as Initialise (ENTRY+0), Open (ENTRY+2), Read (ENTRY+4) .... - a place to define major:minor numbers and the rules / options pertaining thereto, - and finally how to return data and driver status. Fun. mjt On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 06:41, Bruce R. Montague wrote: > > Hi, re, "Next Generation" kernel configuration: > > Years ago I had a job for a few years where I > constantly built RSX-11 systems on PDP-11s. RSX-11 > was always built from source and had a couple of > hundred build-time options, many hardware build > dependencies, and supported numerous other dynamic > build-time functions; it was said that it was possible > that no 2 RSX systems were really the same binaries. > It may have been more combinatorially complex than > FreeBSD. An RSX build could easily take a day. > > Although at the core the build was driven by a file > of assembly macro defines, conceptually not unlike > FreeBSD, the build process went through continuous > evolution over the life of RSX. A comprehensive > "sysgen.bat" script, or somesuch, evolved. Sysgen > (which was a common industry term at the time) was > a very large script that was intended to be run on > a fast hard-copy decwriter; it printed out lists of > possibilities and then asked you a question, you > made a selection from the options, and so on. It > conducted a 'scripted dialog' that reflected the > options you made along the way. You wanted this on > hard copy so you could go back and check things, > keep it for next time, and so on. You could go back > in the dialog and repeat a section, save the sysgen > state and restart later, and so on. > > A sysgen dialog could easily take half-a-day (sometimes > intermediate things had to be built and such), and > then the build itself and install could take a number > of hours... > > At the end of the sysgen dialog you could "save the > session", basically, and then the next time you did > a session you could ask to use the saved session and > essentially conduct a "modification dialog". Working > with sysgen often felt like taking part in an adventure > game with an AI opponent; you had to know how to > outsmart the script to get it to do exactly what you > wanted. This might be a common failing of many > pseudo AI type programs. > > On the one had this all worked and worked well. On > the other hand if you can do it by simply editing > flat files it's much better, because you don't have > to become an expert on the sysgen script just to do > a build. Back on the other hand, there may be a point > of complexity (and lack of corresponding widespread > sophistication) where a sysgen program is necessary. > > > > > SO: > > If a sysgen-like program was built for FreeBSD that > used a conversational, graphic, menu, or whatever > interface, instead of actually doing anything to > real files or the real system, could it just print > out _what to do_, that is, it would output a list > of instructions - in such-and-such a file, edit this > option, then add this line... Or perhaps it would > output diffs to files... or put the output in a > "candidate" location. But in any case the program > would be a SYSGEN ASSISTANT, not an actual sysgen > program. Basically a "kernel config checker", a smart > build-lint, etc.. It could live in ports. If this > program got to where it really worked, everyone liked > the interface, and the system complexity was clearly > at the point where it was needed, it could be used > to directly generate system configurations. > > > The dependency-rule evaluation and output part could > be built independent of any user-interface, so a > front-end back-end scheme might make sense. > > > > In any case, googling on "RSX sysgen" might produce > some ideas of interest. BTW, I'm under the impression > that for quite some time the largest rule-based AI > application ("real-time expert system") in the world > was the OPS5 system implemented at DEC to configure > VAX hardware, see links such as: > > http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/OPS5%20rule%20based > > It looks like there's a public domain system that > compiles rules to C code, perhaps there are some > interesting ideas there as well for things like > general dependency rule evaluation in the backend > and such: > > http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/areas/expert/systems/ops5/0.html > > > Sorry to go on at length. > > > - bruce > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > **************************************************************** > This Email has been scanned for Viruses by MailMarshal. > **************************************************************** -- Murray Taylor Special Projects Engineer --------------------------------- Bytecraft Systems & Entertainment P: +61 3 8710 2555 F: +61 3 8710 2599 D: +61 3 9238 4275 M: +61 417 319 256 E: murraytaylor@bytecraftsystems.com or visit us on the web http://www.bytecraftsystems.com http://www.bytecraftentertainment.com --------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, dissemination or other use of it, or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons and/or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please inform the sender and/or addressee immediately and delete the material. E-mails may not be secure, may contain computer viruses and may be corrupted in transmission. Please carefully check this e-mail (and any attachment) accordingly. No warranties are given and no liability is accepted for any loss or damage caused by such matters. --------------------------------------------------------------- **************************************************************** This Email has been scanned for Viruses by MailMarshal. **************************************************************** From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 23 00:47:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E3F016A4CE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:47:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cydem.org (S0106000103ce4c9c.ed.shawcable.net [68.149.254.167]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCCEE43D2D for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:47:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from [68.149.254.171] (S01060020ed3972ba.ed.shawcable.net [68.149.254.171]) by cydem.org (Postfix/FreeBSD) with ESMTP id 6488239197 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:47:37 -0600 (MDT) From: To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:47:34 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <20040722074211.GL99978@silverwraith.com> <3523.69.70.227.33.1090509902.squirrel@webmail.north-zone.net> In-Reply-To: <3523.69.70.227.33.1090509902.squirrel@webmail.north-zone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200407221847.34220.soralx@cydem.org> Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:47:38 -0000 > The debate here is automation vs. simplification. Why we shouldn't > simplificate the kernel compile ? Because our user base's average IQ will > be lower ? We're not suggesting to have KDE installed by default here. > Users would still to have to type the commands to compile the kernel by > hand and do a little research about the options they enabled. XFree86 has > ncurses/graphic configuration utilities. Why the kernel shouldn't ? Because configuring kernel by editing config files is, IMHO, the fastest and most convenient method. New FreeBSD users should get used to it from the beginning - this will save their time in future. There's nothing hard in editing the files, especially after few kernels for different machines have been created (they can be used as templates). Timestamp: 0x41005EBC [SorAlx] http://cydem.org.ua/ ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 23 00:59:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C0416A4CE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:59:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web53410.mail.yahoo.com (web53410.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02BF043D54 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:59:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from prady_p@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040723005940.18029.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [131.123.36.10] by web53410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:59:40 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:59:40 -0700 (PDT) From: pradeep reddy punnam To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: regarding timeout/untimeout kernel functions X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:59:41 -0000 HI all, i am working on a project , where i came across a situation where i need to execute a function when a timer expires ,exactly similar to functionality of the timeout() kernel function but i need this in userland(application), and the execution of the function is time sensitive, it should be run immediately when timer expires. i can't be using poll or select for timer becuse those will block the process untill the timer expires.for me the proess should not be blocked. and i also thought of taking the service of the timeout function by writing a system call and using signaling mechanism but i think this will become expensive when the number of timers to be checked increeses. i read the kern_timeout.c code that is very good implentation.with very less expensive. but i think user unable to enjoy that service. i will thankful if somebody can tell if there is any such a service or way provided by os( that i overlooked). thanks, -Pradeep --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 23 01:29:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0772116A4E9 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:29:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C275343D1F for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:29:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@joelink.net) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (c-24-14-79-34.client.comcast.net[24.14.79.34]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <20040723012923014003m46re>; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:29:24 +0000 Message-ID: <410069F0.5040604@joelink.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:29:20 -0500 From: Joseph M Link User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pradeep reddy punnam References: <20040723005940.18029.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040723005940.18029.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: regarding timeout/untimeout kernel functions X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:29:25 -0000 If you're willing to take some precautions, you could run the timer code with select/usleep in a separate thread. However, since the callbacks would originate from that thread, you would need mutexes to protect any data that the function accesses that could also be accessed by the normal program flow. Joe pradeep reddy punnam wrote: > HI all, > i am working on a project , where i came across a situation where i need to execute a function when a timer expires ,exactly similar to functionality of the timeout() kernel function but i need this in userland(application), and the execution of the function is time sensitive, it should be run immediately when timer expires. > > i can't be using poll or select for timer becuse those will block the process untill the timer expires.for me the proess should not be blocked. > and i also thought of taking the service of the timeout function by writing a system call and using signaling mechanism but i think this will become expensive when the number of timers to be checked increeses. > > i read the kern_timeout.c code that is very good implentation.with very less expensive. > but i think user unable to enjoy that service. > > i will thankful if somebody can tell if there is any such a service or way provided by os( that i overlooked). > > thanks, > > -Pradeep > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 23 01:31:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E8116A4CE; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:31:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from priv-edtnes40.telusplanet.net (outbound05.telus.net [199.185.220.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A51243D45; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:31:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cpressey@catseye.mine.nu) Received: from catseye.biscuit.boo ([154.20.76.195]) by priv-edtnes40.telusplanet.netSMTP <20040723013149.WHRT5395.priv-edtnes40.telusplanet.net@catseye.biscuit.boo>; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:31:49 -0600 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:32:18 -0700 From: Chris Pressey To: conrads@cox.net Message-Id: <20040722183218.4495276a.cpressey@catseye.mine.nu> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Cat's Eye Technologies X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.9) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:31:50 -0000 On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:39:31 -0500 (CDT) "Conrad J. Sabatier" wrote: > Just musing on an idea here: > > I've been thinking for a while now about trying to write a tool to > make kernel configuration easier, sort of a "make config" (as in > ports) for the kernel, similar to what's available on some of the > Linux distros. > > Ideally, such a tool would be capable of automatically adapting itself > to handle and present as choices, in an orderly and logical fashion, > whatever devices, options, etc. were currently available, as defined > by the files in /sys/conf et al. Hi, I gave this a brief shot on DragonFly with not much luck, but maybe some insight - here's my experience. The kernel config file should probably be replaced by a Makefile. This way, the user can say something like: MYKERNEL: device_i_want another_device_i_want ... ... And of course somewhere else (probably in an included Makefile) the dependencies would be specified a la device_i_want: another_device_you_also_need_for_it ... So, you'd never get a "doomed" kernel config that starts compiling but chokes halfway through the build, because any needed devices would be brought in automatically. That's the easy part. The hard part is discovering the dependencies. If you want to discover them automatically by looking through the kernel source code files - all I can say is, good luck! You'll either need a really, really smart relation-mining program, or more disciplined source code organization, or both. Alternatively, you could ascertain a set of dependencies manually (many of them are noted in GENERIC, LINT, NOTES, etc,) but then you'd also have to maintain that set when they change in the future. I'm not so sure that's much of a drawback (since currently src/sys/conf/files has to undergo that sort of maintenance anyway,) but it's less big of a win than having it all nicely, automatically generated from the inherent structure of the kernel. > The major hurdle to overcome, it appears to me, is that the scheme > currently employed to describe the available devices, options, etc. > does not lend itself very easily at all to any kind of automatic > parsing or other manipulations. Determining dependencies between > components programmatically, for one thing, seems well near > impossible. Precisely the conclusion I came to as well. -Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 23 02:23:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AFD216A4CE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 02:23:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web53409.mail.yahoo.com (web53409.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8157443D46 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 02:23:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from prady_p@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040723022324.55446.qmail@web53409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [131.123.36.10] by web53409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:23:24 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:23:24 -0700 (PDT) From: pradeep reddy punnam To: Joseph M Link In-Reply-To: <410069F0.5040604@joelink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: regarding timeout/untimeout kernel functions X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 02:23:25 -0000 HI joseph , i thought of threading with select before , but i belive that if the number of timers to be checked increases the number of the threads to be maintained increses,so the process may become very hevy. what do u think. i think ultimatley i am going to use the above thing. but in the process of my search i came across the timeout kernel function implemenation but i can not use that ( which i belive very efficient implementation of timers ), which user can not able to use it , so i just want to discuss it . thanks - pradeep Joseph M Link wrote: If you're willing to take some precautions, you could run the timer code with select/usleep in a separate thread. However, since the callbacks would originate from that thread, you would need mutexes to protect any data that the function accesses that could also be accessed by the normal program flow. Joe pradeep reddy punnam wrote: > HI all, > i am working on a project , where i came across a situation where i need to execute a function when a timer expires ,exactly similar to functionality of the timeout() kernel function but i need this in userland(application), and the execution of the function is time sensitive, it should be run immediately when timer expires. > > i can't be using poll or select for timer becuse those will block the process untill the timer expires.for me the proess should not be blocked. > and i also thought of taking the service of the timeout function by writing a system call and using signaling mechanism but i think this will become expensive when the number of timers to be checked increeses. > > i read the kern_timeout.c code that is very good implentation.with very less expensive. > but i think user unable to enjoy that service. > > i will thankful if somebody can tell if there is any such a service or way provided by os( that i overlooked). > > thanks, > > -Pradeep > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 23 02:56:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 768F016A4CE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 02:56:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3020D43D49 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 02:56:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) id i6N2u0Wq031936; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:56:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:56:00 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: pradeep reddy punnam Message-ID: <20040723025600.GA3234@dan.emsphone.com> References: <410069F0.5040604@joelink.net> <20040723022324.55446.qmail@web53409.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040723022324.55446.qmail@web53409.mail.yahoo.com> X-OS: FreeBSD 5.2-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Joseph M Link Subject: Re: regarding timeout/untimeout kernel functions X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 02:56:07 -0000 In the last episode (Jul 22), pradeep reddy punnam said: > i thought of threading with select before , but i belive that if > the number of timers to be checked increases the number of the > threads to be maintained increses,so the process may become very > hevy. what do u think. Threads are very lightweight. You should be able to create hundreds of (mostly-sleeping) threads with no problem. You wouldn't even need to use select; just sleep (or nanosleep). > i think ultimatley i am going to use the above thing. but in the > process of my search i came across the timeout kernel function > implemenation but i can not use that ( which i belive very efficient > implementation of timers ), which user can not able to use it , so i > just want to discuss it . You could also use the kqueue/kevent functions to queue up an arbitrary number of timer events in a single process. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 23 03:04:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6CB816A4CE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 03:04:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cruzio.com (dsl3-63-249-85-132.cruzio.com [63.249.85.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 423A843D58 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 03:04:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6N35Kfp000697 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:05:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: (from brucem@localhost) by mail.cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i6N35KhW000696 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:05:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brucem) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:05:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bruce R. Montague" Message-Id: <200407230305.i6N35KhW000696@mail.cruzio.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 03:04:29 -0000 Hi, re rule-based configuration Chris Pressey noted: > That's the easy part. The hard part is discovering the dependencies. My impression is that almost all rule-based expert systems of sufficient complexity that deal with a dynamic field have failed because of this, that is, due to the difficulty of determining current dependencies (rule discovery). Even the experts don't actually know; each will know some but nobody will know all, certainly not when the real dependencies are evolving all the time. Even worse, there may be many combinations of things that just don't work but nobody realizes it yet, new things that break a lot of old dependencies in an unknown way, etc. Even the experts will hit this and ask on an email list, "I did this and look what happened, anybody got any ideas?" So the experts will know how to solve the problem, but not in a way that can be automated. Unix has been pretty good over its life at resisting combinatorial complexity; RSX for instance had a relatively high degree of optional API sets and optional API features and similar things with kernel primitives, this introduced a very fine level of granularity that made for a bad dependency combinatorial explosion (part of this resulted from the old OS/360 mantra of one system that would scale across a very wide family, combined with paranoia about memory use). Feature sets selected for server components depended on other feature sets, kernel feature sets, API feature sets, driver features sets, etc and vice versa. My impression -dont know if it's true- is that the RSX experience made DEC say "never again". One important reason was testing. Testing a system when few others would actually be built exactly like it raises issues... its good to know that it at least works... but how "fragile" is it wrt other build combinations? The "large e-mail list" as build expert-system of choice combined with a simple mechanism (flat files) to act as control knobs is likely a big advantage open source systems have over most proprietary systems. It would be interesting to know how many people world-wide are reasonably competent to build FreeBSD from source compared to how many actually know the same for NT. Maybe all the more reason to package something as an "Assistant" type educational, verification, or visualization tool for stable, well-known core dependencies. FreeBSD will be around for a long time and such a tool, if nothing else, might help get people on board w/o any impact wrt the current state of affairs. If nothing else, it's an interesting problem and systems complexity is not likely to go down anytime soon! - bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 23 03:20:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4874B16A4CE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 03:20:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from arginine.spc.org (arginine.spc.org [195.206.69.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E80043D46 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 03:20:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bms@spc.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arginine.spc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8816B653FF; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 04:20:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from arginine.spc.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (arginine.spc.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 66161-02; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 04:20:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from empiric.dek.spc.org (82-147-17-88.dsl.uk.rapidplay.com [82.147.17.88]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by arginine.spc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 047A6653F8; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 04:20:54 +0100 (BST) Received: by empiric.dek.spc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id EC2F76181; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 04:20:52 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 04:20:52 +0100 From: Bruce M Simpson To: Dan Nelson Message-ID: <20040723032052.GA32366@empiric.dek.spc.org> Mail-Followup-To: Dan Nelson , pradeep reddy punnam , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Joseph M Link References: <410069F0.5040604@joelink.net> <20040723022324.55446.qmail@web53409.mail.yahoo.com> <20040723025600.GA3234@dan.emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040723025600.GA3234@dan.emsphone.com> cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Joseph M Link cc: pradeep reddy punnam Subject: Re: regarding timeout/untimeout kernel functions X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 03:20:59 -0000 On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 09:56:00PM -0500, Dan Nelson wrote: > You could also use the kqueue/kevent functions to queue up an arbitrary > number of timer events in a single process. I wrote a small routing daemon which uses kqueue/kevent to fire a period timer on a quantum which in turn calls into a timer list module I wrote, which can either use the kevent quantum, or multiplex on a single itimer. It's pretty basic and probably not foolproof, but it seems to work well. BMS From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 23 03:58:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5970516A4CE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 03:58:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 126EF43D45 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 03:58:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@joelink.net) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (c-24-14-79-34.client.comcast.net[24.14.79.34]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2004072303585401400evedie>; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 03:58:54 +0000 Message-ID: <41008CFB.90506@joelink.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:58:51 -0500 From: Joseph M Link User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pradeep reddy punnam References: <20040723022324.55446.qmail@web53409.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040723022324.55446.qmail@web53409.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: regarding timeout/untimeout kernel functions X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 03:58:55 -0000 I dont know anything about the kevent timer stuff, so you should probably look into that before re-inventing the wheel. However, you would only need 1 thread to implement this timer functionality. There are a couple data structures you could use, but it would probably be easiest to use a priorityq. You insert each timer event into the priorityq keyed on when it is due to fire. You look at first item in the queue and subtract the current time from it (gettimeofday()) to determine how long to sleep until the next one is ready. If use select, you'll need to create a pipe and select on it to wake up the thread when you insert new timer events. Joe pradeep reddy punnam wrote: > HI joseph , > > i thought of threading with select before , but i belive that if the number of timers to be checked increases the number of the threads to be maintained increses,so the process may become very hevy. what do u think. > > i think ultimatley i am going to use the above thing. > but in the process of my search i came across the timeout kernel function implemenation > but i can not use that ( which i belive very efficient implementation of timers ), which user can not able to use it , so i just want to discuss it . > > thanks > > - pradeep > > Joseph M Link wrote: > > If you're willing to take some precautions, you could run the timer code > with select/usleep in a separate thread. However, since the callbacks > would originate from that thread, you would need mutexes to protect any > data that the function accesses that could also be accessed by the > normal program flow. > > Joe > > pradeep reddy punnam wrote: > > >>HI all, >>i am working on a project , where i came across a situation where i need to execute a function when a timer expires ,exactly similar to functionality of the timeout() kernel function but i need this in userland(application), and the execution of the function is time sensitive, it should be run immediately when timer expires. >> >>i can't be using poll or select for timer becuse those will block the process untill the timer expires.for me the proess should not be blocked. >>and i also thought of taking the service of the timeout function by writing a system call and using signaling mechanism but i think this will become expensive when the number of timers to be checked increeses. >> >>i read the kern_timeout.c code that is very good implentation.with very less expensive. >>but i think user unable to enjoy that service. >> >>i will thankful if somebody can tell if there is any such a service or way provided by os( that i overlooked). >> >>thanks, >> >>-Pradeep >> >> >> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Do you Yahoo!? >>Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! >>_______________________________________________ >>freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 23 21:13:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A51916A4CE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:13:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.212]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 430C043D2D for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:13:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (c211-30-75-229.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.30.75.229]) i6NLDgN25980; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 07:13:42 +1000 Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (localhost.alcatel.com.au [127.0.0.1])i6NLDfVd014619; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 07:13:42 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au) Received: (from pjeremy@localhost)i6NLDfDO014618; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 07:13:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 07:13:41 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: pradeep reddy punnam Message-ID: <20040723211341.GK3001@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> References: <20040723005940.18029.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040723005940.18029.qmail@web53410.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: regarding timeout/untimeout kernel functions X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:13:47 -0000 [Please wrap your mail before 80 columns] On Thu, 2004-Jul-22 17:59:40 -0700, pradeep reddy punnam wrote: > i am working on a project , where i came across a >situation where i need to execute a function when a timer expires >,exactly similar to functionality of the timeout() kernel function How about setitimer(2) and a SIGALRM handler? >but i need this in userland(application), and the execution of the >function is time sensitive, it should be run immediately when timer >expires. What is your definition of "immediately"? Timeouts are rounded to ticks (and FreeBSD has a 1-2 tick slop for various reasons). Once the (rounded) timeout expires, then it's up to the scheduler to actually invoke your timer handler function in line with normal scheduling rules. Overall, it's unlikely that your handler will get called early but it will typically be called about 1 tick late (and there's no upper bound on how late your handler will be invoked if the system is heavily loaded). -- Peter Jeremy From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 24 03:50:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F9016A4D0 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 03:50:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 1002-17.Lowesthosting.com (1002-17.lowesthosting.com [207.44.234.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F81243D48 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 03:50:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhamby@anobject.com) Received: (qmail 24152 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2004 03:50:04 -0000 Received: from ar39.lsanca2-4.16.240.21.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net (HELO ?192.168.0.13?) (4.16.240.21) by 1002-17.lowesthosting.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2004 03:50:04 -0000 Message-ID: <4101DC69.9030309@anobject.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 20:50:01 -0700 From: Jake Hamby User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (X11/20040719) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: conrads@cox.net References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 03:50:06 -0000 Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > On 21-Jul-2004 Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > > >>I'm sure this will become another bikeshed, so I suggest whoever came >>up with the idea to put up or shut up. People are interested in >>solutions, not suggestions. > > > Agreed. And the original proponent of the idea was me. I just wanted > to see if there was any willingness to even consider something like > this before I went and did a lot of work for nothing. > > Seems the general concensus is that most people are OK with the idea, > depending on the implementation. > > I'll be quiet now until/unless I can actually come up with something. > :-) If you are looking to improve the current build process, here's an idea someone could implement that would save a lot of people a lot of time... My biggest annoyance with building the kernel, compared to Linux, is that it insists on building all of the possible kernel modules, even though I only want to build the ones that make sense for my hardware. In Linux, despite the drawbacks of the menu-based config, it is nice being able to easily specify Yes, Module, or No for most options. The least intrusive approach would probably be to add a second config file (e.g. "MYKERNEL.modules") which would contain only the names of the modules to build in some make-friendly format. You could then modify config(8) to automatically copy this file, if it exists, to the object directory where it would be included by the appropriate Makefile. If no .modules file exists, then it would continue the current behavior of building all possible modules. -- Jake Hamby From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 24 05:03:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F2A16A4CE; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 05:03:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail019.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail019.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.73]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8728143D46; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 05:03:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (c211-30-75-229.belrs2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.30.75.229]) i6O53lp06622; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 15:03:47 +1000 Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (localhost.alcatel.com.au [127.0.0.1])i6O53lVd015025; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 15:03:47 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au) Received: (from pjeremy@localhost)i6O53kbH015024; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 15:03:46 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 15:03:46 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Jake Hamby Message-ID: <20040724050346.GA10855@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> References: <4101DC69.9030309@anobject.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4101DC69.9030309@anobject.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 05:03:54 -0000 On Fri, 2004-Jul-23 20:50:01 -0700, Jake Hamby wrote: >My biggest annoyance with building the kernel, compared to Linux, is >that it insists on building all of the possible kernel modules, even >though I only want to build the ones that make sense for my hardware. I think you want the following: # MODULES_OVERRIDE can be used to limit modules built to a specific list. ... #makeoptions MODULES_OVERRIDE="linux sound/snd sound/pcm sound/driver/maestro3" Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 24 06:43:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8175416A4CE for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 06:43:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web53405.mail.yahoo.com (web53405.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.52]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 175DF43D1D for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 06:43:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from prady_p@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20040724064349.1320.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.166.107.199] by web53405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:43:49 PDT Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:43:49 -0700 (PDT) From: pradeep reddy punnam To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: error in linking librery's X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 06:43:50 -0000 Hi all, i am getting following error when i tried to link -lpthread, when i compile my program /user/libexec/elf/ld ; cannot find -lpthread, i made changes to my kernel and re compiled it, so i think may be i need to set the paths correct, which file i need to link. thanks - pradeep --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 24 06:59:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB16A16A4CE for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 06:59:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D35D43D2F for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 06:59:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (IDENT:brdavis@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6O6xWOF029302; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:59:32 -0700 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.10/8.12.3/Submit) id i6O6xV2V029299; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:59:31 -0700 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:59:31 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: pradeep reddy punnam Message-ID: <20040724065931.GA28747@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <20040724064349.1320.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040724064349.1320.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: error in linking librery's X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 06:59:33 -0000 --xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 11:43:49PM -0700, pradeep reddy punnam wrote: > Hi all, > =20 > i am getting following error when i tried to link -lpthread, > when i compile my program > > /user/libexec/elf/ld ; cannot find -lpthread, > > i made changes to my kernel and re compiled it, so i think may be i > need to set the paths correct, which file i need to link. Which version of FreeBSD are you using? Kernel modifications should have no effect on the existance of libpthread. Only 5.2-CURRENT after January 30 has a libpthread. -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBAgjSXY6L6fI4GtQRAl69AKCUgiu+mi8y7xhBc+wDyNpvryVNTgCg2Y1o 56pN4U603QrlgaQEhwKCQwQ= =Woc7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 24 11:48:53 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA1DB16A4CE for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:48:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mps3.plala.or.jp (c146240.vh.plala.or.jp [210.150.146.240]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B22E43D39 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:48:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from e-kamo@trio.plala.or.jp) Received: from msvc1.plala.or.jp ([172.23.8.209]) by mps3.plala.or.jp with SMTP id <20040724114850.TSHW14401.mps3.plala.or.jp@msvc1.plala.or.jp> for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 20:48:50 +0900 Received: ( 27974 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2004 20:48:50 +0900 X-SVCK: Received: from unknown (HELO mpb1.plala.or.jp) (172.23.8.16) by msvc1 with SMTP; 24 Jul 2004 20:48:48 +0900 Received: from trio.plala.or.jp ([219.25.148.126]) by mpb1.plala.or.jp with ESMTP id <20040724114847.OJRR19716.mpb1.plala.or.jp@trio.plala.or.jp> for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 20:48:47 +0900 Message-ID: <41024E4A.40907@trio.plala.or.jp> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 20:55:54 +0900 From: Eitarou Kamo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <40CF0A84.1020807@trio.plala.or.jp> In-Reply-To: <40CF0A84.1020807@trio.plala.or.jp> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.8.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: umass0: CBI reset failed, Timeout.... 4.10-R X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:48:53 -0000 Hi commiter and all, Eitarou Kamo wrote: >Hi, > >I have some questions about umass and USB. > >I installed 4.10-R to Sony vaio laptop. and rebooted >without any memory stick. >In boot process, my machine said that > >umass0: CBI reset failed, TIMEOUT >umass0: CBI bulk-in stall clear failed, TIMEOUT >umass0: CBI bulk-out stall clear failed, TIMEOUT > >5 times( about 20 min). and didn't prompt "login:". > >and I look into source code by my debug print. > >It seems that reflexive loop occurs between uhci_callout( , , >uhci_poll_hub,) >and uhci_poll_hub(). Now uhci_callout is called from uhci_power(). and >uhci_poll_hub() have a path > >if (p[0] == 0) >/* No change, try again in a while */ >return; > >If return here, loop occurs. Because uhci_poll_hub() >includes uhci_callout( , , uhci_poll_hub,). > >Does anyone know? any idea? > >Any suggestion will be appreciated. > > > I posted this message and I now remembered suddenly. Then, I'm writing this message. |if (p[0] == 0) |/* No change, try again in a while */ |return; What does this path mean? This path meant umass dev was none, I thought. So reflexible loop occurs until umass device is recognized. If so, I'd like a option to bypass this path when something is set as the kernel param or anything else. which makes the smooth boot process without umass devs. Any idea or suggestion? Eitarou P.S. Sorry not to trim below. >++++++++++++++ unci_poll_hub()+++++++++++++++ >void >uhci_poll_hub(void *addr) >{ >usbd_xfer_handle xfer = addr; >usbd_pipe_handle pipe = xfer->pipe; >uhci_softc_t *sc = (uhci_softc_t *)pipe->device->bus; >int s; >u_char *p; > >DPRINTFN(20, ("uhci_poll_hub\n")); > >usb_callout(sc->sc_poll_handle, sc->sc_ival, uhci_poll_hub, xfer); > >p = KERNADDR(&xfer->dmabuf, 0); >p[0] = 0; >if (UREAD2(sc, UHCI_PORTSC1) & (UHCI_PORTSC_CSC|UHCI_PORTSC_OCIC)) >p[0] |= 1<<1; >if (UREAD2(sc, UHCI_PORTSC2) & (UHCI_PORTSC_CSC|UHCI_PORTSC_OCIC)) >p[0] |= 1<<2; >if (p[0] == 0) >/* No change, try again in a while */ >return; > >xfer->actlen = 1; >xfer->status = USBD_NORMAL_COMPLETION; >s = splusb(); >xfer->device->bus->intr_context++; >usb_transfer_complete(xfer); >xfer->device->bus->intr_context--; >splx(s); >} > >++++++++++++++ unci_poll_hub()+++++++++++++++ > > > -- *********************** Eitarou Kamo Tel. +81 75 7035997 Fax +81 75 7035997 VoIP 050 10585997(domestic only) e$B!>(Bmail e-kamo@trio.plala.or.jp For business: Feel free to mail me(above), please. Donation http://www.PayPal.Com GPG FingerPrint: 032D FDF9 D27B 23F7 9A81 BF4C 626C FBAA BC3A 9895 ************************************************************************ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 24 12:55:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A29B16A4CE for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 12:55:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from kientzle.com (h-66-166-149-50.snvacaid.covad.net [66.166.149.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC77843D4C for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 12:55:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kientzle@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd.org (p54.kientzle.com [66.166.149.54]) by kientzle.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6OCtA90052400; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 05:55:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kientzle@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <41025C2E.8070904@freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 05:55:10 -0700 From: Tim Kientzle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20031006 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Sprickman References: <20040719191408.V28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> <40FD011B.1020504@trio.plala.or.jp> <20040720140124.E28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> In-Reply-To: <20040720140124.E28049@toad.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: disk recovery help X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 12:55:17 -0000 Charles Sprickman wrote: > > ... there seem to be a ton of superblock backups. > How do I find out where they are and compare them? This is an FAQ, and probably in the handbook somewhere (google for "alternate superblock"): * According to "man fsck_ffs", block 32 is usually an alternate superblock. * You can also use newfs -N to find out where the superblocks are probably located and fsck_ffs -b to recheck the drive using one of the alternates instead of the trashed primary. * 40G IDE drives are cheap and plenty big enough to give you a sandbox for trying to recover your 26G filesystem image. Someone else mentioned "fsdb." I've never used it myself, but it looks like it might be useful to you. Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 23 19:44:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0573316A4CE for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 19:44:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from drumandbass.at (drumandbass.at [62.116.16.204]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FAED43D31 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 19:44:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from chaoztc@confusion.at) Received: (qmail 2133 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2004 19:44:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO drumandbass.at) (62.116.16.204) by drumandbass.at with SMTP; 23 Jul 2004 19:44:40 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:44:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Ingo X-X-Sender: To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" In-Reply-To: <20040708163251.GA8862@VARK.homeunix.com> Message-ID: <20040723214208.U1945-100000@ix.reflection.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 13:40:48 +0000 Subject: Re: Article on Sun's DTrace X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 19:44:43 -0000 > But if you *do* happen to know 60 good programmers who are willing > to work on FreeBSD full time for very little money, let me know > and I'll see what I can do about that baby thing. the great idea: get a bank account, ask users if they throw an 1$ (1eur) on it and let some indian (or something else) work on it. i think the idea is not as bad. bye, Ingo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 24 22:02:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B2716A4CE; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 22:02:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.village.org [168.103.84.182]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F96443D3F; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 22:02:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i6OM10M6029659; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:01:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20040724.160110.127665912.imp@bsdimp.com> To: jhamby@anobject.com From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <4101DC69.9030309@anobject.com> References: <4101DC69.9030309@anobject.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 22:02:55 -0000 In message: <4101DC69.9030309@anobject.com> Jake Hamby writes: : Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: : > On 21-Jul-2004 Devon H. O'Dell wrote: : > : > : >>I'm sure this will become another bikeshed, so I suggest whoever came : >>up with the idea to put up or shut up. People are interested in : >>solutions, not suggestions. : > : > : > Agreed. And the original proponent of the idea was me. I just wanted : > to see if there was any willingness to even consider something like : > this before I went and did a lot of work for nothing. : > : > Seems the general concensus is that most people are OK with the idea, : > depending on the implementation. : > : > I'll be quiet now until/unless I can actually come up with something. : > :-) : : If you are looking to improve the current build process, here's an idea : someone could implement that would save a lot of people a lot of time... : : My biggest annoyance with building the kernel, compared to Linux, is : that it insists on building all of the possible kernel modules, even : though I only want to build the ones that make sense for my hardware. : In Linux, despite the drawbacks of the menu-based config, it is nice : being able to easily specify Yes, Module, or No for most options. : : The least intrusive approach would probably be to add a second config : file (e.g. "MYKERNEL.modules") which would contain only the names of the : modules to build in some make-friendly format. You could then modify : config(8) to automatically copy this file, if it exists, to the object : directory where it would be included by the appropriate Makefile. If no : .modules file exists, then it would continue the current behavior of : building all possible modules. What's wrong with adding: makeoptions MODULES_OVERRIDE="a b c" to your config file? It is already supported. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 24 23:21:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5852B16A4CE for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:21:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 1002-17.Lowesthosting.com (1002-17.lowesthosting.com [207.44.234.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E25DD43D49 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:21:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhamby@anobject.com) Received: (qmail 15657 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2004 23:21:15 -0000 Received: from ar39.lsanca2-4.16.240.21.lsanca2.elnk.dsl.genuity.net (HELO ?192.168.0.13?) (4.16.240.21) by 1002-17.lowesthosting.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2004 23:21:15 -0000 Message-ID: <4102EEE6.3020805@anobject.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:21:10 -0700 From: Jake Hamby User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (X11/20040719) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Warner Losh" References: <4101DC69.9030309@anobject.com> <20040724.160110.127665912.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20040724.160110.127665912.imp@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:21:16 -0000 M. Warner Losh wrote: > > What's wrong with adding: > > makeoptions MODULES_OVERRIDE="a b c" > > to your config file? It is already supported. Nothing, I just didn't know about it! Thanks to all who replied with the answer... -Jake