From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 10:47:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810AE16A4CE for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 10:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out6.xs4all.nl (smtp-out6.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D584C43D45 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 10:47:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rene@canyon.xs4all.nl) Received: from zion.canyon.xs4all.nl (canyon.xs4all.nl [80.126.75.53]) by smtp-out6.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i56HlLew015187; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 19:47:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from zion.canyon.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.canyon.xs4all.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B183874B; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 19:47:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [IPv6?2001?888?181b?1?230?65ff?fe1e?e03d] (meandrix.canyon.xs4all.nl [IPv6:2001:888:181b:1:230:65ff:fe1e:e03d]) by zion.canyon.xs4all.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 19:47:20 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: <8EBC1C3A-B7E1-11D8-BD82-00039357FA7A@canyon.xs4all.nl> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Rene de Vries Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 19:47:19 +0200 To: "Mitch (bitblock)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org cc: "David J. Hughes" cc: 'Joe Hamelin' Subject: Re: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 17:47:35 -0000 Mitch, Why so complicated. Simply start two different natd instances one for each ADSL line. Make=20= one of the ADSL lines the default route. Then based on the source=20 address (just modified by natd) fast-route traffic which tries to leave=20= via the default route over the wrong interface to the other interface's=20= next hop (using ipfw). You could apply various methods of determining over which ADSL line the=20= traffic will leave, e.g. source port, source address, dest address=20 etc... This solution doesn't require provider assistance and would even work=20 when you have two different providers. Ren=E9 On May 26, 2004, at 2:59, Mitch (bitblock) wrote: > Hey David - didn't see your reply before I replied to Joe there - any=20= > more > info appreciated - I have both ends of the solution (I think) - just=20= > need to > know the best way to config! > > Consider these ip's and interfaces... what do I do? Is ISPF lighter=20 > weight > than BGP (considering the limited deployment?) > > Client A <-----\ > X.X.X.2 \ > ----------> Router <-------------> > / / X.X.X.1 X.X.Y.2 > X.X.X.3 / / > Client B <-----/ / > <------/ > X.X.X.4 > > Router is FreeBSD based, and Client A and Client B are also FreeBSD=20 > based, > and have a second interface to the internal networks at Client A and=20= > Client > B. > > I'm wondering if my other problem (the fact that Client A can't see=20 > Client B > as there is an ATM path for it to Router, but as Client B's addresses=20= > are on > the same subnet, and not bounced off the Router (and there is no=20 > direct ATM > path) there is no connection... > > Any help or advice greatly appreciated. > > Thanks. > > m/ > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org >> [mailto:owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of David J. Hughes >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:08 PM >> To: 'Joe Hamelin'; freebsd-isp@freebsd.org >> Subject: RE: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw >> >> >> >> Actually, that isn't quite correct. You do not need a virtual IP >> address (such as an HSRP or VRRP setup). You just need equal cost >> paths from the ISP to you. >> >> To achieve this you will need to route an address range from your >> ISP to your network. It can be your address space, a small piece >> of ISP provided space, or even a chunk of private space. Just as >> long as it's routed from the ISP to you via the DSL tails. The >> ISP just needs to see equal cost paths to your prefix via BOTH >> your DSL tails. That way they will use both. >> >> There are several ways to do this (inc running eBGP or OSPF to them >> from your equipment). Have a chat with your ISP to see what options >> they would consider. >> >> >> David > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --=20 Ren=E9 de Vries Tunix Internet Security & Training From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 11:38:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316C416A4CE for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 11:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bigass1.bitblock.com (ns1.bitblock.com [66.199.170.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C9A43D1D for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 11:38:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mitch@bitblock.com) Received: from a1200 ([24.83.187.201]) (AUTH: LOGIN mitch@bitblock.com) by bigass1.bitblock.com with esmtp; Sun, 06 Jun 2004 18:38:12 +0000 X-Abuse-Reports: Visit http://www.bitblock.com/abuse.php X-Abuse-Reports: and submit a copy of the message headers X-Abuse-Reports: or review our policies and procedures X-Abuse-Reports: ID= 40C36494.0000DE20.bigass1.bitblock.com,dns; a1200 ([24.83.187.201]),AUTH: LOGIN mitch@bitblock.com From: "Mitch (bitblock)" To: "Rene de Vries" Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 11:38:11 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8EBC1C3A-B7E1-11D8-BD82-00039357FA7A@canyon.xs4all.nl> cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org cc: "David J. Hughes" cc: 'Joe Hamelin' Subject: RE: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 18:38:16 -0000 Hi Rene! That concept was recently suggested to me by a friend on another project - I haven't had a chance to try it yet though - any pointers on a starter rule set greatly appreciated... thanks. m/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Rene de Vries [mailto:rene@canyon.xs4all.nl] > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 10:47 AM > To: Mitch (bitblock) > Cc: 'Joe Hamelin'; freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; David J. Hughes > Subject: Re: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw > > > Mitch, > > Why so complicated. > > Simply start two different natd instances one for each ADSL line. Make > one of the ADSL lines the default route. Then based on the source > address (just modified by natd) fast-route traffic which tries to leave > via the default route over the wrong interface to the other interface's > next hop (using ipfw). > > You could apply various methods of determining over which ADSL line the > traffic will leave, e.g. source port, source address, dest address > etc... > > This solution doesn't require provider assistance and would even work > when you have two different providers. > > RenИ > > On May 26, 2004, at 2:59, Mitch (bitblock) wrote: > > > Hey David - didn't see your reply before I replied to Joe there - any > > more > > info appreciated - I have both ends of the solution (I think) - just > > need to > > know the best way to config! > > > > Consider these ip's and interfaces... what do I do? Is ISPF lighter > > weight > > than BGP (considering the limited deployment?) > > > > Client A <-----\ > > X.X.X.2 \ > > ----------> Router <-------------> > > / / X.X.X.1 X.X.Y.2 > > X.X.X.3 / / > > Client B <-----/ / > > <------/ > > X.X.X.4 > > > > Router is FreeBSD based, and Client A and Client B are also FreeBSD > > based, > > and have a second interface to the internal networks at Client A and > > Client > > B. > > > > I'm wondering if my other problem (the fact that Client A can't see > > Client B > > as there is an ATM path for it to Router, but as Client B's addresses > > are on > > the same subnet, and not bounced off the Router (and there is no > > direct ATM > > path) there is no connection... > > > > Any help or advice greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks. > > > > m/ > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org > >> [mailto:owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of David J. Hughes > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:08 PM > >> To: 'Joe Hamelin'; freebsd-isp@freebsd.org > >> Subject: RE: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw > >> > >> > >> > >> Actually, that isn't quite correct. You do not need a virtual IP > >> address (such as an HSRP or VRRP setup). You just need equal cost > >> paths from the ISP to you. > >> > >> To achieve this you will need to route an address range from your > >> ISP to your network. It can be your address space, a small piece > >> of ISP provided space, or even a chunk of private space. Just as > >> long as it's routed from the ISP to you via the DSL tails. The > >> ISP just needs to see equal cost paths to your prefix via BOTH > >> your DSL tails. That way they will use both. > >> > >> There are several ways to do this (inc running eBGP or OSPF to them > >> from your equipment). Have a chat with your ISP to see what options > >> they would consider. > >> > >> > >> David > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > -- > RenИ de Vries > Tunix Internet Security & Training > > From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 11:46:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F15AE16A4CE for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 11:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bigass1.bitblock.com (ns1.bitblock.com [66.199.170.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF00C43D39 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 11:46:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mitch@bitblock.com) Received: from a1200 ([24.83.187.201]) (AUTH: LOGIN mitch@bitblock.com) by bigass1.bitblock.com with esmtp; Sun, 06 Jun 2004 18:46:38 +0000 X-Abuse-Reports: Visit http://www.bitblock.com/abuse.php X-Abuse-Reports: and submit a copy of the message headers X-Abuse-Reports: or review our policies and procedures X-Abuse-Reports: ID= 40C3668E.0000DF72.bigass1.bitblock.com,dns; a1200 ([24.83.187.201]),AUTH: LOGIN mitch@bitblock.com From: "Mitch (bitblock)" To: "Rene de Vries" Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 11:46:37 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8EBC1C3A-B7E1-11D8-BD82-00039357FA7A@canyon.xs4all.nl> cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org cc: "David J. Hughes" cc: 'Joe Hamelin' Subject: RE: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 18:46:42 -0000 Hi Rene - just in case you have insight on the other problem - client A can't see client B - each client has an ATM path to the router, but as they don't have a path to each other - and they are on the same subnet, A expects traffic for B to be simply switched, so doesn't route it - which is a problem - as B never sees the traffic. Another way to solve my problem might be to use separate subnets? Assuming Client A was on one subnet, and client B was on another... could the router have an address (on the same interface!) in both subnets (aliasing) and route back over the same interface? My current method of dealing with this is to use VPN software to create private mesh networks between the clients... Any ideas appreciated! Thanks! m/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Rene de Vries [mailto:rene@canyon.xs4all.nl] > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 10:47 AM > To: Mitch (bitblock) > Cc: 'Joe Hamelin'; freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; David J. Hughes > Subject: Re: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw > > > > > > Client A <-----\ > > X.X.X.2 \ > > ----------> Router <-------------> > > / / X.X.X.1 X.X.Y.2 > > X.X.X.3 / / > > Client B <-----/ / > > <------/ > > X.X.X.4 > > > > Router is FreeBSD based, and Client A and Client B are also FreeBSD > > based, > > and have a second interface to the internal networks at Client A and > > Client > > B. > > > > I'm wondering if my other problem (the fact that Client A can't see > > Client B > > as there is an ATM path for it to Router, but as Client B's addresses > > are on > > the same subnet, and not bounced off the Router (and there is no > > direct ATM > > path) there is no connection... > > > > Any help or advice greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks. > > > > m/ > > From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 16:15:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEA4616A4CE for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gizmo11bw.bigpond.com (gizmo11bw.bigpond.com [144.140.70.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C9FAB43D39 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:15:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bambi@hughes.com.au) Received: (qmail 19741 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2004 21:56:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bwmam01.bigpond.com) (144.135.24.69) by gizmo11bw.bigpond.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2004 21:56:20 -0000 Received: from ctpp-p-144-134-145-105.prem.tmns.net.au ([144.134.145.105]) by bwmam01.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_4_2a 2/11079574) with SMTP id 11079574; Mon, 07 Jun 2004 09:15:40 +1000 From: "David J. Hughes" To: "'Rene de Vries'" , "'Mitch (bitblock)'" Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:15:31 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Thread-Index: AcRL7lom1pnGf+26TMWj7Q6XwgdB8QALSdsw In-Reply-To: <8EBC1C3A-B7E1-11D8-BD82-00039357FA7A@canyon.xs4all.nl> Message-Id: <20040606231544.C9FAB43D39@mx1.FreeBSD.org> cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org cc: 'Joe Hamelin' Subject: RE: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 23:15:48 -0000 I was talking about load balancing inbound traffic not outbound. Like I said there's a stack you can do on the local box that I have no experience with. In my world FreeBSD =3D=3D Server not Router. David ...=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Rene de Vries [mailto:rene@canyon.xs4all.nl]=20 > Sent: Monday, 7 June 2004 3:47 AM > To: Mitch (bitblock) > Cc: 'Joe Hamelin'; freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; David J. Hughes > Subject: Re: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw >=20 > Mitch, >=20 > Why so complicated. >=20 > Simply start two different natd instances one for each ADSL=20 > line. Make=20 > one of the ADSL lines the default route. Then based on the source=20 > address (just modified by natd) fast-route traffic which=20 > tries to leave=20 > via the default route over the wrong interface to the other=20 > interface's=20 > next hop (using ipfw). >=20 > You could apply various methods of determining over which=20 > ADSL line the=20 > traffic will leave, e.g. source port, source address, dest address=20 > etc... >=20 > This solution doesn't require provider assistance and would even work=20 > when you have two different providers. >=20 > Ren=E9 >=20 > On May 26, 2004, at 2:59, Mitch (bitblock) wrote: >=20 > > Hey David - didn't see your reply before I replied to Joe=20 > there - any=20 > > more > > info appreciated - I have both ends of the solution (I=20 > think) - just=20 > > need to > > know the best way to config! > > > > Consider these ip's and interfaces... what do I do? Is ISPF lighter=20 > > weight > > than BGP (considering the limited deployment?) > > > > Client A <-----\ > > X.X.X.2 \ > > ----------> Router <-------------> > > / / X.X.X.1 X.X.Y.2 > > X.X.X.3 / / > > Client B <-----/ / > > <------/ > > X.X.X.4 > > > > Router is FreeBSD based, and Client A and Client B are also FreeBSD=20 > > based, > > and have a second interface to the internal networks at=20 > Client A and=20 > > Client > > B. > > > > I'm wondering if my other problem (the fact that Client A can't see=20 > > Client B > > as there is an ATM path for it to Router, but as Client B's=20 > addresses=20 > > are on > > the same subnet, and not bounced off the Router (and there is no=20 > > direct ATM > > path) there is no connection... > > > > Any help or advice greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks. > > > > m/ > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org > >> [mailto:owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of David J. Hughes > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:08 PM > >> To: 'Joe Hamelin'; freebsd-isp@freebsd.org > >> Subject: RE: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw > >> > >> > >> > >> Actually, that isn't quite correct. You do not need a virtual IP > >> address (such as an HSRP or VRRP setup). You just need equal cost > >> paths from the ISP to you. > >> > >> To achieve this you will need to route an address range from your > >> ISP to your network. It can be your address space, a small piece > >> of ISP provided space, or even a chunk of private space. Just as > >> long as it's routed from the ISP to you via the DSL tails. The > >> ISP just needs to see equal cost paths to your prefix via BOTH > >> your DSL tails. That way they will use both. > >> > >> There are several ways to do this (inc running eBGP or OSPF to them > >> from your equipment). Have a chat with your ISP to see=20 > what options > >> they would consider. > >> > >> > >> David > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to=20 > "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > --=20 > Ren=E9 de Vries > Tunix Internet Security & Training >=20 >=20 >=20 From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 04:22:18 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E87B16A4E7 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 04:22:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pbx.org (pbx.org [198.247.172.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CED4843D4C for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 04:22:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gus@pbx.org) Received: by pbx.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1D63451F082; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 00:22:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 00:22:16 -0400 From: gus- To: "Mitch (bitblock)" Message-ID: <20040607042216.GA86305@pbx.org> References: <8EBC1C3A-B7E1-11D8-BD82-00039357FA7A@canyon.xs4all.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org cc: Rene de Vries cc: 'Joe Hamelin' cc: "David J. Hughes" Subject: Re: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 04:22:18 -0000 doing this with ipfw is trivial: isp ip localip local int link1: 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.2 em1 link2: 192.168.2.1 192.168.2.2 em2 route add 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1 ipfw add prob 0.5 allow ip from any to any out via em1 fwd 192.168.2.1 however, this would probabaly drop half of your packets if em1 went down, should theoreticaly work if em2 drops (because you still have a route to 192.168.2.1 via default route) if freebsd followed rfc 1112 this shouldn't be an issue (http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=57479) cheers, -- gus huber pbx labs On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 11:38:11AM -0700, Mitch (bitblock) wrote: > Hi Rene! > > That concept was recently suggested to me by a friend on another project - I > haven't had a chance to try it yet though - any pointers on a starter rule > set greatly appreciated... > > thanks. > > m/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rene de Vries [mailto:rene@canyon.xs4all.nl] > > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 10:47 AM > > To: Mitch (bitblock) > > Cc: 'Joe Hamelin'; freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; David J. Hughes > > Subject: Re: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw > > > > > > Mitch, > > > > Why so complicated. > > > > Simply start two different natd instances one for each ADSL line. Make > > one of the ADSL lines the default route. Then based on the source > > address (just modified by natd) fast-route traffic which tries to leave > > via the default route over the wrong interface to the other interface's > > next hop (using ipfw). > > > > You could apply various methods of determining over which ADSL line the > > traffic will leave, e.g. source port, source address, dest address > > etc... > > > > This solution doesn't require provider assistance and would even work > > when you have two different providers. > > > > Ren? > > > > On May 26, 2004, at 2:59, Mitch (bitblock) wrote: > > > > > Hey David - didn't see your reply before I replied to Joe there - any > > > more > > > info appreciated - I have both ends of the solution (I think) - just > > > need to > > > know the best way to config! > > > > > > Consider these ip's and interfaces... what do I do? Is ISPF lighter > > > weight > > > than BGP (considering the limited deployment?) > > > > > > Client A <-----\ > > > X.X.X.2 \ > > > ----------> Router <-------------> > > > / / X.X.X.1 X.X.Y.2 > > > X.X.X.3 / / > > > Client B <-----/ / > > > <------/ > > > X.X.X.4 > > > > > > Router is FreeBSD based, and Client A and Client B are also FreeBSD > > > based, > > > and have a second interface to the internal networks at Client A and > > > Client > > > B. > > > > > > I'm wondering if my other problem (the fact that Client A can't see > > > Client B > > > as there is an ATM path for it to Router, but as Client B's addresses > > > are on > > > the same subnet, and not bounced off the Router (and there is no > > > direct ATM > > > path) there is no connection... > > > > > > Any help or advice greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > m/ > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org > > >> [mailto:owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of David J. Hughes > > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:08 PM > > >> To: 'Joe Hamelin'; freebsd-isp@freebsd.org > > >> Subject: RE: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Actually, that isn't quite correct. You do not need a virtual IP > > >> address (such as an HSRP or VRRP setup). You just need equal cost > > >> paths from the ISP to you. > > >> > > >> To achieve this you will need to route an address range from your > > >> ISP to your network. It can be your address space, a small piece > > >> of ISP provided space, or even a chunk of private space. Just as > > >> long as it's routed from the ISP to you via the DSL tails. The > > >> ISP just needs to see equal cost paths to your prefix via BOTH > > >> your DSL tails. That way they will use both. > > >> > > >> There are several ways to do this (inc running eBGP or OSPF to them > > >> from your equipment). Have a chat with your ISP to see what options > > >> they would consider. > > >> > > >> > > >> David > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > -- > > Ren? de Vries > > Tunix Internet Security & Training > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 08:05:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4EEF16A4CE for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:05:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.cdfreaks.com (backup.cdfreaks.com [217.67.240.51]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2817143D55 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:05:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mail@mail.cdfreaks.com) Received: (from mail@localhost) by mail.cdfreaks.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id i5784vG04503; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:04:57 +0200 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:04:57 +0200 Message-Id: <200406070804.i5784vG04503@mail.cdfreaks.com> X-Webmin-Autoreply: 1 X-Originally-To: helpdesk@cdfreaks.com To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: helpdesk@cdfreaks.com Subject: Autoreply to Mail Delivery (failure helpdesk@cdfreaks.com) X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:05:00 -0000 ======================================================== This is an automated response to your mail CD Freaks Forum Helpdesk - helpdesk@cdfreaks.com http://club.cdfreaks.com ======================================================== Dear visitor, Thank you for contacting us. Due to the amount of questions we cannot answer all your questions personally. This automated response however contains important information that should help you answering your questions. Please read it carefully! We receive many questions about registration issues. See below for possible problems and solutions. 1) Before you post you will need to activate your account. Your account can only be activated by clicking on a link that you will receive by e-mail If you didn't enter a valid e-mail address during the registration process, then please try again using a valid e-mail address and a different nickname. You can change your nickname if needed by sending a private message (PM) to a CD Freaks administrator/moderator, they'll be happy to assist you. If you haven't received the email you can have it resend it to you. If still doesn't work then check your spam filters or hotmail bulkmail inbox 2) Make sure you accept cookies from our site (*.cdfreaks.com). 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Kind regards, Jan-Willem de Bruin CD Freaks.com Management ======================================================== --- This is an automated response to your mail --- ======================================================== From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 19:30:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ECA416A4D0 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:30:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from skywalker.rogness.net (skywalker.rogness.net [64.251.173.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C76D43D1D for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:30:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nick@rogness.net) Received: from skywalker.rogness.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by skywalker.rogness.net (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id i57JOZGg021832; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:24:35 -0600 (envelope-from nick@rogness.net) Received: from localhost (nick@localhost)i57JOT4M021828; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:24:31 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: skywalker.rogness.net: nick owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:24:29 -0600 (MDT) From: Nick Rogness To: gus- In-Reply-To: <20040607042216.GA86305@pbx.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org cc: Rene de Vries cc: "David J. Hughes" cc: "Mitch \(bitblock\)" cc: 'Joe Hamelin' Subject: Re: 2 adsl connections load balancing with natd/ipfw X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 19:30:26 -0000 On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, gus- wrote: > doing this with ipfw is trivial: > isp ip localip local int > link1: 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.2 em1 > link2: 192.168.2.1 192.168.2.2 em2 > > route add 0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1 > ipfw add prob 0.5 allow ip from any to any out via em1 fwd 192.168.2.1 > > however, this would probabaly drop half of your packets if em1 went > down, should theoreticaly work if em2 drops (because you still have a > route to 192.168.2.1 via default route) NAT is involved which puts a wrench in this idea. Keep in mind that when packets "leave" an interface, their source address(es) change. So in this case, half the packets would have a source address of X.X.X.X (leaving interface em1) and the other half would have Y.Y.Y.Y (leaving interface em2). The 'only' approach that is realistic (without provider intervention) is to split traffic based on destination IP as suggested earlier: > route add -net 0.0.0.0 -netmask 128.0.0.0 192.168.1.1 > route add -net 128.0.0.0 -netmask 128.0.0.0 192.168.2.1 This splits the IP space exactly in half, sending all traffic starting with 0->127.X.X.X through em1 and sends all 128->256.X.X.X through em2. Run 2 instances of natd, one for each interface. You can adjust your 'load balancing' by using smaller routes and send certain traffic through different interfaces with route statements. You would need to monitor load on the interfaces to fine tune this approach. -- Nick Rogness - How many people here have telekenetic powers? Raise my hand. -Emo Philips From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 22:19:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F33816A4CE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 22:19:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.socal.rr.com (ms-smtp-02-qfe0.socal.rr.com [66.75.162.134]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0167D43D31 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 22:19:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from esayer1@san.rr.com) Received: from [192.168.1.29] (66-75-225-77.san.rr.com [66.75.225.77]) i59MJKXr018536 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <049320BD-BA63-11D8-B2DF-000A95CCF8C4@san.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Evan Sayer Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:19:04 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Subject: Limiting Connection TIme X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 22:19:23 -0000 Hello- Can anyone help me to limit the amount of time users can spend on my system via a dialup connection? I don't care how long people are on with a network connection, but I don't want people tying up my phone lines for too long. How can I limit their time to say an hour? Any assistance is greatly appreciated. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 10 05:47:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25FB216A4CE for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 05:47:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from flock1.newmail.ru (morda.newmail.ru [212.48.140.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C149543D49 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 05:46:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Andrew.Karjagin@newmail.ru) Received: (qmail 29777 invoked by alias); 10 Jun 2004 05:42:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20040610054211.29768.qmail@flock1.newmail.ru> From: Andrew Karjagin To: , X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: DenMail v1.0 by ORC X-Uid: 689 X-RemoteIP: 81.89.64.105 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:42:11 +0400 In-Reply-To: <049320BD-BA63-11D8-B2DF-000A95CCF8C4@san.rr.com> X-DWM-In-Reply-To: <1086846130.29523.denwebmail-12522-INBOX@Andrew_Karjagin> Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Subject: Re: Limiting Connection TIme X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 05:47:00 -0000 Hello Evan Sayer If you use Radius for authorization - set radius parameter Session-Timeout = 3600 If you use user-level ppp and system passwords - add to your ppp.conf parameter "set timeout 3600" Чт, 10.06.2004 02:19:04 you wrote: > ES> Hello- ES> Can anyone help me to limit the amount of time users can spend on my ES> system via a dialup connection? I don't care how long people are on ES> with a network connection, but I don't want people tying up my phone ES> lines for too long. How can I limit their time to say an hour? Any ES> assistance is greatly appreciated. ES> ES> _______________________________________________ ES> freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list ES> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp ES> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ES> __________ ES> http://www.orc.ru/access/leased.dhtml - Интернет для офиса (SDSL) - подключение 0 USD __________ www.newmail.ru -- узел свободных коммуникаций. From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 15:08:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73DD816A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:08:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from beast.clarksys.com (sm02.cthought.com [64.81.233.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 151D443D39 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:08:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from maxc@beast.clarksys.com) Received: (qmail 48924 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2004 15:05:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (192.168.69.133) by sm02.cthought.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2004 15:05:31 -0000 Message-ID: <40C9CAD0.6060701@beast.clarksys.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:08:00 -0700 From: Max Clark User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Bandwidth Usage Billing X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:08:00 -0000 Hi all, So it's pretty common for ISPs to do usage based bandwidth billing (GB Transfered and 95th Percentile), my question is... how do you set this up? MRTG is the defacto snmp bandwidth monitoring tool, however it does not track total GB transfered and the 95th percentile without external hacks, and even with this, your data will be truncated rather quickly. How does one set up a bandwidth billing system (are there systems already out there for this) to track their customer's usage? Thanks in advance, Max From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 15:16:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B3516A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:16:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from exhsto1.se.dataphone.com (exhsto1.se.dataphone.com [212.37.6.239]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20CB643D39 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:16:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from patrik.forsberg@dataphone.net) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:16:24 +0200 Message-ID: <375DD163B075E34EA3C10A6286E34A545489E6@exhsto1.se.dataphone.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Bandwidth Usage Billing Thread-Index: AcRPxfQjmPpTvw/zRVSujeahEkKpaAAAPfAw From: "Patrik Forsberg" To: "Max Clark" cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Bandwidth Usage Billing X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:16:34 -0000 > How does one set up a bandwidth billing system (are there systems=20 > already out there for this) to track their customer's usage? Checkout http://rtg.sourceforge.net/ it will do what you're asking for. =20 Regards, Patrik From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 15:17:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3994116A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:17:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from blue.gerhardt-it.com (gw.gerhardt-it.com [204.83.38.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2D7143D58 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:17:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scott@g-it.ca) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (hsdbsk69-11-26-32.sasknet.sk.ca [69.11.26.32]) by blue.gerhardt-it.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177E6FDE6; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:17:08 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <40C9CAD0.6060701@beast.clarksys.com> References: <40C9CAD0.6060701@beast.clarksys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <65871A9D-BBBA-11D8-BCE0-000393801C60@g-it.ca> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Scott Gerhardt Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:17:04 -0600 To: Max Clark X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bandwidth Usage Billing X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:17:10 -0000 IPFM works well for tracking usage (/usr/ports/net-mgmt/ipfm). You can parse the logs using perl or whatever to get cumulative statistics. SCR_IPFM works well for generating graphical usage summaries on a daily/monthly/yearly basis (/usr/ports/net/scr_ipfm). -- Scott On Jun 11, 2004, at 9:08 AM, Max Clark wrote: > Hi all, > > So it's pretty common for ISPs to do usage based bandwidth billing (GB > Transfered and 95th Percentile), my question is... how do you set this > up? > > MRTG is the defacto snmp bandwidth monitoring tool, however it does > not track total GB transfered and the 95th percentile without external > hacks, and even with this, your data will be truncated rather quickly. > > How does one set up a bandwidth billing system (are there systems > already out there for this) to track their customer's usage? > > Thanks in advance, > Max > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-isp@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-isp > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-isp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 15:20:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BDCA16A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:20:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from complx.LF.net (complx.LF.net [212.9.190.63]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B117643D41 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:20:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lists@complx.LF.net) Received: from lists by complx.LF.net with local (Exim 4.24) id 1BYnpL-000Fu7-B9; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:20:19 +0200 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:20:19 +0200 From: Kurt Jaeger To: Max Clark Message-ID: <20040611152019.GA72336@complx.LF.net> References: <40C9CAD0.6060701@beast.clarksys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40C9CAD0.6060701@beast.clarksys.com> cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bandwidth Usage Billing X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:20:36 -0000 Hi! > So it's pretty common for ISPs to do usage based bandwidth billing (GB > Transfered and 95th Percentile), my question is... how do you set this up? We count packets. ftp://ftp.LF.net/pub/unix/systems/FreeBSD/sw/ipcount-2.0-i386_fbsd4.tgz We do not make some 95%th percentiles, we just bill GigBytes. -- MfG/Best regards, Kurt Jaeger 16 years to go ! LF.net GmbH fon +49 711 90074-23 pi@LF.net Ruppmannstr. 27 fax +49 711 90074-33 D-70565 Stuttgart mob +49 171 3101372 From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 15:21:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D91516A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:21:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bes.amduat.net (bes.amduat.net [206.124.149.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B25E143D46 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:21:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jbarrett@amduat.net) Received: from osiris.attachmate.com ([63.115.16.66]) (AUTH: LOGIN jbarrett, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-MD5) by bes.amduat.net with esmtp; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:21:49 -0700 From: "Jacob S. Barrett" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:21:47 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <40C9CAD0.6060701@beast.clarksys.com> In-Reply-To: <40C9CAD0.6060701@beast.clarksys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200406110821.47866.jbarrett@amduat.net> Subject: Re: Bandwidth Usage Billing X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:21:56 -0000 On Friday 11 June 2004 08:08 am, Max Clark wrote: > MRTG is the defacto snmp bandwidth monitoring tool, however it does not > track total GB transfered and the 95th percentile without external > hacks, and even with this, your data will be truncated rather quickly. You can configure MRTG or any other RRD based system to keep higher resolution data longer. We keep the 5 second data for 3 months. After that I think it goes into 20 minute averages that are kept for a year, then daily averages for 5 years. The RRD files will be a lot larger, but a lot more accurate for billing purposes. > How does one set up a bandwidth billing system (are there systems > already out there for this) to track their customer's usage? We just us a simple perl script to sum up the RRD data at the end of the billing cycle. We also have some PHP pages for customers to monitor their usage over the month. Another company I know uses cricket to dump the data into a SQL database as well as RRD. They use the RRD for graphing and the SQL for billing. -- Jacob S. Barrett jbarrett@amduat.net www.amduat.net "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it." From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 16:01:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E7B316A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:01:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from beast.clarksys.com (sm02.cthought.com [64.81.233.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C9DB43D48 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:01:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from maxc@beast.clarksys.com) Received: (qmail 51525 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2004 15:59:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (192.168.69.133) by sm02.cthought.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2004 15:59:11 -0000 Message-ID: <40C9D761.6010601@beast.clarksys.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:01:37 -0700 From: Max Clark User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org References: <40C9CAD0.6060701@beast.clarksys.com> <200406110821.47866.jbarrett@amduat.net> In-Reply-To: <200406110821.47866.jbarrett@amduat.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Bandwidth Usage Billing X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:01:52 -0000 Jacob, Have you had any problems using mrtg+rrd to track this data? I guess the better question would be, what would advantages of using cricket over mrtg (or vice versa) be? Thanks, Max Jacob S. Barrett wrote: > On Friday 11 June 2004 08:08 am, Max Clark wrote: > >>MRTG is the defacto snmp bandwidth monitoring tool, however it does not >>track total GB transfered and the 95th percentile without external >>hacks, and even with this, your data will be truncated rather quickly. > > > You can configure MRTG or any other RRD based system to keep higher resolution > data longer. We keep the 5 second data for 3 months. After that I think it > goes into 20 minute averages that are kept for a year, then daily averages > for 5 years. The RRD files will be a lot larger, but a lot more accurate for > billing purposes. > > >>How does one set up a bandwidth billing system (are there systems >>already out there for this) to track their customer's usage? > > > We just us a simple perl script to sum up the RRD data at the end of the > billing cycle. We also have some PHP pages for customers to monitor their > usage over the month. > > Another company I know uses cricket to dump the data into a SQL database as > well as RRD. They use the RRD for graphing and the SQL for billing. > From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 17:02:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B7EC16A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:02:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bigass1.bitblock.com (ns1.bitblock.com [66.199.170.4]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AA9143D1D for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:01:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mitch@bitblock.com) Received: from a1200 ([24.83.187.201]) (AUTH: LOGIN mitch@bitblock.com) by bigass1.bitblock.com with esmtp; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:01:39 +0000 X-Abuse-Reports: Visit http://www.bitblock.com/abuse.php X-Abuse-Reports: and submit a copy of the message headers X-Abuse-Reports: or review our policies and procedures X-Abuse-Reports: ID= 40C9E573.0000F5F8.bigass1.bitblock.com,dns; a1200 ([24.83.187.201]),AUTH: LOGIN mitch@bitblock.com From: "Mitch (bitblock)" To: "Max Clark" , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:01:38 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <40C9D761.6010601@beast.clarksys.com> Subject: RE: Bandwidth Usage Billing X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:02:01 -0000 I don't use cricket - we rolled our own, but the main advantage I have to SQL storage, is that the numbers don't change - when 5 seconds become 20 minute averages, your monthly numbers often change slightly, which gives the "more alert" customers something to ask about ;-) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Max Clark > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 9:02 AM > To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Bandwidth Usage Billing > > > Jacob, > > Have you had any problems using mrtg+rrd to track this data? I guess the > better question would be, what would advantages of using cricket over > mrtg (or vice versa) be? > > Thanks, > Max > From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 17:14:27 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2267416A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:14:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bes.amduat.net (bes.amduat.net [206.124.149.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B16D843D2D for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:14:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jbarrett@amduat.net) Received: from osiris.attachmate.com ([63.115.16.66]) (AUTH: LOGIN jbarrett, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-MD5) by bes.amduat.net with esmtp; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:14:11 -0700 From: "Jacob S. Barrett" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:14:08 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <40C9CAD0.6060701@beast.clarksys.com> <200406110821.47866.jbarrett@amduat.net> <40C9D761.6010601@beast.clarksys.com> In-Reply-To: <40C9D761.6010601@beast.clarksys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200406111014.08714.jbarrett@amduat.net> Subject: Re: Bandwidth Usage Billing X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:14:27 -0000 On Friday 11 June 2004 09:01 am, Max Clark wrote: > Have you had any problems using mrtg+rrd to track this data? I guess the > better question would be, what would advantages of using cricket over > mrtg (or vice versa) be? You can do it with MRTG. I just liked the simple configuration of cricket over MRTG. I didn't need anything pretty either since we don't give access to cricket graphs directly. Users must go though our custom PHP pages that use RRDTool directly. Our custom scripts generate the standard bps rate graph, a daily consumption graph, and a monthly running consumption graph against their quota line. Obviously we bill based on consumption not 95th. -- Jacob S. Barrett jbarrett@amduat.net www.amduat.net "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it." From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 11 17:19:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 269D716A4CE for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:19:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from bes.amduat.net (bes.amduat.net [206.124.149.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBEFA43D49 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:19:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jbarrett@amduat.net) Received: from osiris.attachmate.com ([63.115.16.66]) (AUTH: LOGIN jbarrett, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-MD5) by bes.amduat.net with esmtp; Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:19:45 -0700 From: "Jacob S. Barrett" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:19:42 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200406111019.42631.jbarrett@amduat.net> Subject: Re: Bandwidth Usage Billing X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet Services Providers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:19:52 -0000 On Friday 11 June 2004 10:01 am, "Mitch (bitblock)" wrote: > I don't use cricket - we rolled our own, but the main advantage I have to > SQL storage, is that the numbers don't change - when 5 seconds become 20 > minute averages, your monthly numbers often change slightly, which gives > the "more alert" customers something to ask about ;-) Yeah, that is why we keep the 5 second data for 3 months. The default is something like 15 days, which obviously won't give you the most accurate accounting. We obviously keep a snap shot of each billing cycle, but we just let the data fade away over time. Until we start having customers come back and want a years worth of detailed reporting we probably won't keep the 5 second data longer than 3 months. For the picky customers we can easily increase it to a year. Besides, after a month the noticeable difference on the 5 second to 20 minute rounding is pretty small, less than a few megs, and since we are talking 10+Gs, no one really cares. :) -- Jacob S. Barrett jbarrett@amduat.net www.amduat.net "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it."