From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 17 20:06:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41AD216A4CE for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns0.secureanonymous.com (tjhawkins.com [64.232.254.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE6A43D41 for ; Mon, 17 May 2004 20:06:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from timh@tjhawkins.com) Received: from cdm-66-76-99-185.fayt.cox-internet.com ([66.76.99.185] helo=yourw92p4bhlzg) by ns0.secureanonymous.com with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BPtzO-00027V-BN for freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 17 May 2004 21:05:54 -0500 Message-ID: <00d701c43c85$0ca36bd0$6501a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> From: To: Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:05:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ns0.secureanonymous.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tjhawkins.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.1 Subject: question X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 03:06:02 -0000 new installer, great idea. I have a question.. How much money do you = require to finish this project? Is this project even active anymore? Please let me know. Thank you, Tim H. From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 18 10:17:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA9316A4CE for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE3E43D49 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 10:17:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarcat@anarcat.ath.cx) Received: from shall.anarcat.ath.cx (anarcat.mtl.istop.com [66.11.160.167]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B02617C455; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shall.anarcat.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9687D107; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:51 -0400 From: The Anarcat To: timh@tjhawkins.com Message-ID: <20040518171751.GA58065@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> Mail-Followup-To: The Anarcat , timh@tjhawkins.com, freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG References: <00d701c43c85$0ca36bd0$6501a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00d701c43c85$0ca36bd0$6501a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: question X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 17:17:54 -0000 --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Mon May 17, 2004 at 10:05:57PM -0500, timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: > new installer, great idea. I have a question.. That's 2 questions. :) > How much money do you require to finish this project? That, I have no idea, and because... > Is this project even active anymore? Not really. It's been almost a year now since anything significant happened on the list. I personally am not involved very much in libh anymore, and leave space for other, maybe less ambitious but more realistic, projects like libpkg which should make the current system work better instead of re-inventing the wheel. I feel that libh has taken too long the role of a failed promise for the FreeBSD community and rightly deserves to die now. Each year or so, new volunteers crash their heads against this wall, without real impact, and I actually feel libh hinders real improvements of the packaging system by giving a false hope of a coming revelation. :) Cheers, A. --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAqkU+ttcWHAnWiGcRAmQDAJ0UgEAzToH0ZesI0E39U6Da1LOcnwCgm7jU 9FRpCAucZbN2MLAh1de2gdE= =0FBY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G-- From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 18 15:33:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E837A16A4CE for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 15:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postal.sdsc.edu (postal.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.114]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D5043D8F for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:29:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from okumoto@ucsd.edu) Received: from valbanera.sdsc.edu (IDENT:hUn3U1fp627ggvXB2WgpAIFVE1Km9X29@valbanera.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.78]) i4IKHPp11529; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from okumoto@localhost) by valbanera.sdsc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/submit/l/4) id i4IKHOZi024399; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: valbanera.sdsc.edu: okumoto set sender to okumoto@ucsd.edu using -f To: The Anarcat References: <00d701c43c85$0ca36bd0$6501a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <20040518171751.GA58065@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> From: Max Okumoto Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:24 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20040518171751.GA58065@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> (The Anarcat's message of "Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:51 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG cc: timh@tjhawkins.com Subject: Re: question X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 22:33:20 -0000 I agree. I think we should have the lists depricated, and the web site changed to indicate that it is dead. :-( Max The Anarcat writes: > On Mon May 17, 2004 at 10:05:57PM -0500, timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: >> new installer, great idea. I have a question.. > > That's 2 questions. :) > >> How much money do you require to finish this project? > > That, I have no idea, and because... > >> Is this project even active anymore? > > Not really. It's been almost a year now since anything significant > happened on the list. > > I personally am not involved very much in libh anymore, and leave space > for other, maybe less ambitious but more realistic, projects like libpkg > which should make the current system work better instead of re-inventing > the wheel. > > I feel that libh has taken too long the role of a failed promise for the > FreeBSD community and rightly deserves to die now. Each year or so, new > volunteers crash their heads against this wall, without real impact, and > I actually feel libh hinders real improvements of the packaging system > by giving a false hope of a coming revelation. :) > > Cheers, > > A. From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 18 16:26:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76AC16A4D4 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postal.sdsc.edu (postal.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.114]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7440043D1D for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 16:26:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from okumoto@ucsd.edu) Received: from valbanera.sdsc.edu (IDENT:hUn3U1fp627ggvXB2WgpAIFVE1Km9X29@valbanera.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.78]) i4IKHPp11529; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from okumoto@localhost) by valbanera.sdsc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/submit/l/4) id i4IKHOZi024399; Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: valbanera.sdsc.edu: okumoto set sender to okumoto@ucsd.edu using -f To: The Anarcat References: <00d701c43c85$0ca36bd0$6501a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <20040518171751.GA58065@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> From: Max Okumoto Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:24 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20040518171751.GA58065@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> (The Anarcat's message of "Tue, 18 May 2004 13:17:51 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG cc: timh@tjhawkins.com Subject: Re: question X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 23:26:39 -0000 I agree. I think we should have the lists depricated, and the web site changed to indicate that it is dead. :-( Max The Anarcat writes: > On Mon May 17, 2004 at 10:05:57PM -0500, timh@tjhawkins.com wrote: >> new installer, great idea. I have a question.. > > That's 2 questions. :) > >> How much money do you require to finish this project? > > That, I have no idea, and because... > >> Is this project even active anymore? > > Not really. It's been almost a year now since anything significant > happened on the list. > > I personally am not involved very much in libh anymore, and leave space > for other, maybe less ambitious but more realistic, projects like libpkg > which should make the current system work better instead of re-inventing > the wheel. > > I feel that libh has taken too long the role of a failed promise for the > FreeBSD community and rightly deserves to die now. Each year or so, new > volunteers crash their heads against this wall, without real impact, and > I actually feel libh hinders real improvements of the packaging system > by giving a false hope of a coming revelation. :) > > Cheers, > > A. From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 18 22:07:32 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7226B16A4CE for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.elcat.kg (imap.elcat.kg [212.42.96.15]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E0E43D54 for ; Tue, 18 May 2004 22:07:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from warlock@voip.kg) Received: by mail.elcat.kg (Postfix, from userid 6000) id 471893F5557; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:07:22 +0600 (KGST) Received: from warcomp.elcat.kg (warcomp.elcat.kg [212.42.96.26]) by mail.elcat.kg (Postfix) with ESMTP id 144FA3F5542 for ; Wed, 19 May 2004 11:07:22 +0600 (KGST) From: Roman Streltsov Organization: Elcat To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:07:21 +0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <00d701c43c85$0ca36bd0$6501a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <20040518171751.GA58065@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> In-Reply-To: <20040518171751.GA58065@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200405191107.21528.warlock@voip.kg> Subject: Re: question X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 05:07:32 -0000 On Tuesday 18 May 2004 23:17, The Anarcat wrote: > I actually feel libh hinders real improvements of the packaging system > by giving a false hope of a coming revelation. :) It was first destination of project, it isn't? How about to return? Handy package system with powerfull upgrade and interface aspects looks too actual now. Thanx for attention From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 22 13:20:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8993F16A4CE for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jkh-gw.queasyweasel.com (adsl-64-173-3-158.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.3.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1DE43D39 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:20:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Received: from [10.0.1.60] (adsl-64-173-15-102.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.102])i4MKKhXC017453; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:20:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) In-Reply-To: References: <00d701c43c85$0ca36bd0$6501a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <20040518171751.GA58065@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <4CA59E9E-AC2D-11D8-871A-000A95AD47EE@queasyweasel.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jordan Hubbard Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:19:16 -0700 To: Max Okumoto X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: timh@tjhawkins.com Subject: Re: question X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:20:08 -0000 libh never lived up to its promise, that much is certainly true. The pity of all this is that there's never been the right sort of project management or even group consensus necessary to come up with any credible replacement strategy. Libh was never the cause of FreeBSD's lack of a good replacement installer, merely a symptom of the general lack of desire to deal with this problem space. People just keep doing (barely) evolutionary hacking on the existing tools and somehow perceiving this as sufficient and that's just a shame since it's limited FreeBSD's success (trying, as it has, to be "the mainstream BSD"). Meanwhile, the SuSE and Red Hats of the world continue to march on and offer installation and package management experiences that are at least an order of magnitude more extensive than FreeBSD's. Even Debian, who one could argue is more of a reasonable comparison to FreeBSD given that it's all been volunteer driven rather than subsidized by a corporate sugar-daddy, offers a better installation experience. Not an order of magnitude better, but they've at least put some effort into this area and appear to be continuing to do so. If libh is finally pronounced dead and buried without ceremony, I hope that this is announced a little more widely and with at least some attempt to provoke discussion concerning "if not that, then what? Nothing? Really??" - Jordan >> I feel that libh has taken too long the role of a failed promise for >> the >> FreeBSD community and rightly deserves to die now. From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 22 13:41:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4047D16A4CE; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE1AA43D2F; Sat, 22 May 2004 13:41:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarcat@anarcat.ath.cx) Received: from shall.anarcat.ath.cx (anarcat.mtl.istop.com [66.11.160.167]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCA1817C326; Sat, 22 May 2004 16:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shall.anarcat.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E80A9DC; Sat, 22 May 2004 16:40:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 16:40:44 -0400 From: The Anarcat To: core@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040522204044.GB48382@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> Mail-Followup-To: The Anarcat , core@freebsd.org, Jordan Hubbard , Max Okumoto , timh@tjhawkins.com, freebsd-libh@freebsd.org References: <00d701c43c85$0ca36bd0$6501a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <20040518171751.GA58065@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> <4CA59E9E-AC2D-11D8-871A-000A95AD47EE@queasyweasel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4CA59E9E-AC2D-11D8-871A-000A95AD47EE@queasyweasel.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org cc: Jordan Hubbard cc: timh@tjhawkins.com Subject: LibH pronounced dead, need for a new leadership X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:41:06 -0000 --hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Right. I totally agree with you here Jordan. Maybe the key would be to try to port successful tools from the linux side. I don't know. One thing I know is that I have completely departed from developpement on libh in particular and FreeBSD in general, because of a lack of time, mainly, but also because of the frustrating experience of maintaining a low-end (and here I mean 64M of ram :) server with FreeBSD, compared to other systems. You mentionned Debian, well that's one thing: I discovered APT. I feel that working on a package management system is completely futile once the open source world has such a great tool already tried and true. They are making APT work with other packaging formats (RPM, for now), and I don't see why this wouldn't apply to our side. APT could work with the current FreeBSD package scheme, which itself could be improved upon to match the capabilities of other packaging systems, as being proven by the libpkg experiment. Building an installer is always a bit of the "re-inventing the wheel" hell. It's already been done, it's never quite right, it's extenuating and no-one wants to do it anyways. Maybe claiming the death of libh will bring life to other projects. I'm thinking of libpkg which kinda sprung to life after all, without libh mind you, and the binary updates stuff. Both projects are very exciting and I'm really considering the binary updates stuff for the maintenance of the FreeBSD boxen I have left. Maybe all the BSDs need to get together to solve this problem. I can't believe we can't collectively solve this problem. What I see is multiple people working on similar or related projects each on their sides: pkgsrc on NetBSD, libpkg on FreeBSD, a graphical installer (i don't recall the name) on OpenBSD. We need to focus all those projects together. Getting libh out of the way for that is a great move, actually, and might actually open up the gates for the next step. I don't nor can lead this one. Someone will have to take care of that, some people who have their feet deep into the BSDs and are socially networked in the community. That is why I CC'd core. Hear our call! FreeBSD needs a new installer! Let's wake this daemon! I don't know where or how to announce that, maybe you guys could point me in the right direction, maybe you guys want to do it yourselves. :) Anyways, there's surely a debate to open, although I'm not sure it'll bring anything. This is a highly bikeshed-susceptible material, and what it needs is work, not opinions or debates. Long life FreeBSD, A. On Sam mai 22, 2004 at 01:19:16 -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > libh never lived up to its promise, that much is certainly true. >=20 > The pity of all this is that there's never been the right sort of=20 > project management or even group consensus necessary to come up with=20 > any credible replacement strategy. Libh was never the cause of=20 > FreeBSD's lack of a good replacement installer, merely a symptom of the= =20 > general lack of desire to deal with this problem space. People just=20 > keep doing (barely) evolutionary hacking on the existing tools and=20 > somehow perceiving this as sufficient and that's just a shame since=20 > it's limited FreeBSD's success (trying, as it has, to be "the=20 > mainstream BSD"). Meanwhile, the SuSE and Red Hats of the world=20 > continue to march on and offer installation and package management=20 > experiences that are at least an order of magnitude more extensive than= =20 > FreeBSD's. Even Debian, who one could argue is more of a reasonable=20 > comparison to FreeBSD given that it's all been volunteer driven rather=20 > than subsidized by a corporate sugar-daddy, offers a better=20 > installation experience. Not an order of magnitude better, but they've= =20 > at least put some effort into this area and appear to be continuing to=20 > do so. >=20 > If libh is finally pronounced dead and buried without ceremony, I hope=20 > that this is announced a little more widely and with at least some=20 > attempt to provoke discussion concerning "if not that, then what? =20 > Nothing? Really??" >=20 > - Jordan >=20 >=20 > >>I feel that libh has taken too long the role of a failed promise for=20 > >>the > >>FreeBSD community and rightly deserves to die now.=20 >=20 --hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAr7rLttcWHAnWiGcRAstxAKCgbeM+Tu/+znhVT3SZ65FBhRUN0wCfc1U0 0gSElD5hLQ4S9HK70mM/RyI= =ZZdE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hHWLQfXTYDoKhP50-- From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 22 22:16:51 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EEA616A4CE for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A6043D39 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:16:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@usermode.org) Received: from h-68-164-82-199.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.82.199] helo=scatha.home) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BRlLq-0002La-00 for freebsd-libh@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 May 2004 01:16:46 -0400 From: David Johnson Organization: Usermode To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:16:44 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <00d701c43c85$0ca36bd0$6501a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <4CA59E9E-AC2D-11D8-871A-000A95AD47EE@queasyweasel.com> In-Reply-To: <4CA59E9E-AC2D-11D8-871A-000A95AD47EE@queasyweasel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200405222216.44543.david@usermode.org> Subject: Re: question X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 05:16:51 -0000 On Saturday 22 May 2004 01:19 pm, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > libh never lived up to its promise, that much is certainly true. The downfall of libh, IMHO, is that it was too ambitious. It was an installer, package manager, and universal GUI toolkit all wrapped up into one. Any one of these would be an ambitious undertaking, but all three together was just too much. -- David Johnson ___________________ http://www.usermode.org From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 22 22:30:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73F4616A4CE for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 287C443D31 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 22:30:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@usermode.org) Received: from h-68-164-82-199.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.82.199] helo=scatha.home) by barry.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BRlZI-00019A-00; Sun, 23 May 2004 01:30:40 -0400 From: David Johnson Organization: Usermode To: The Anarcat , freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:30:38 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <00d701c43c85$0ca36bd0$6501a8c0@yourw92p4bhlzg> <4CA59E9E-AC2D-11D8-871A-000A95AD47EE@queasyweasel.com> <20040522204044.GB48382@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> In-Reply-To: <20040522204044.GB48382@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200405222230.38861.david@usermode.org> Subject: Re: LibH pronounced dead, need for a new leadership X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 05:30:49 -0000 On Saturday 22 May 2004 01:40 pm, The Anarcat wrote: > I don't nor can lead this one. Someone will have to take care of > that, some people who have their feet deep into the BSDs and are > socially networked in the community. I was told not long ago on the -advocacy group to "stop talking about it, and just go code something." I told them I would. Unfortunately, I can only code in my spare time, and I have other software I need to maintain. So I haven't gotten around to coding anything. And it doesn't look like I'll have time to start coding for another three months. But I am willing to discuss some ideas. But this isn't the advocacy list. This is the libh list. SInce libh is dead, we pretty much have the list to ourselves to talk all we want about a libh/sysinstall replacement! -- David Johnson ___________________ http://www.usermode.org