From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 13 17:28:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E64E16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:28:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4308643D41 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:28:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anarcat@anarcat.ath.cx) Received: from shall.anarcat.ath.cx (anarcat.mtl.istop.com [66.11.160.167]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6663617C4B3 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shall.anarcat.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 21E313C3; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Resent-From: anarcat@anarcat.ath.cx Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:28:39 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <20040713172839.GC7317@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> Resent-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from shall.anarcat.ath.cx (anarcat.mtl.istop.com [66.11.160.167]) by linrouter.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB7711784E; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 22:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anarcat.ath.cx (lenny.anarcat.ath.cx [192.168.0.4]) by shall.anarcat.ath.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F104E; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 22:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40C3CFB1.5080402@anarcat.ath.cx> From: Anarcat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040528 Debian/1.6-7 X-Accept-Language: fr, fr-ca, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Johnson References: <3684.192.168.0.1.1086515427.squirrel@192.168.0.1> <200406061827.53216.david@usermode.org> In-Reply-To: <200406061827.53216.david@usermode.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installer X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:28:40 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:15:13 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:28:40 -0000 David Johnson wrote: > I've been thinking about this for quite some time, and tried to rough > out some designs. The hardest thing to write is this generic UI > abstraction. The fact that no one has done it successfully before means > that it's probably not worth the effort. What does exist is at a much > higher level (dldialog). Trying to map one GUI API onto another is > extremely problematic. Even writing an API to match another (for > example a ncurses API that matches the Qt or GTK+ API) will cause > problems mapping character based UI concepts onto pixel based UI > concepts. > > I think the Linux distros have the right idea with their installers. > Have a common backend, but write separate UI frontends. This still > leaves considerable opportunities for common code. Only the actual UI > need be written twice (or three times). With my ol' libh maintainer hat on, (which I should really resign from now, btw) I totally agree with that. And I'll put it even better: if we struggle to build a "dual-head" GUI (text + graphics), we end up stuck at 2 interfaces. Hooking in a third one is much harder than doing it the other way around, which is: design the machine under, and then program as many views you need. Model-view-controller comes to my mind now, and I think it's appropriate. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ModelViewController A. From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 13 17:28:53 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E3FC16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:28:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5E3343D2D for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:28:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anarcat@anarcat.ath.cx) Received: from shall.anarcat.ath.cx (anarcat.mtl.istop.com [66.11.160.167]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F97E17C3FD for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shall.anarcat.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3112D3EF; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Resent-From: anarcat@anarcat.ath.cx Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:28:52 -0400 Resent-Message-ID: <20040713172852.GD7317@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> Resent-To: libh@freebsd.org Received: from shall.anarcat.ath.cx (anarcat.mtl.istop.com [66.11.160.167]) by linrouter.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD1F117864 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 22:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anarcat.ath.cx (lenny.anarcat.ath.cx [192.168.0.4]) by shall.anarcat.ath.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE914E for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 22:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40C3D29F.2090304@anarcat.ath.cx> From: Anarcat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040528 Debian/1.6-7 X-Accept-Language: fr, fr-ca, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: libh@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: LibH is dead. X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:28:53 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:27:43 -0400 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:28:53 -0000 Just to make things official. :) I hereby resign my maintainership of the libh port and project. It's been a long time since this project had any activity other than the occasional mailing list fart, so it is time to move on. I think we can all agree now that the ol' libh is dead. Please move along, nothing to see here. There are very fine projects on the way that I see *should* replace libh: LibPKG: http://people.freebsd.org/~kientzle/libarchive/ binup: http://www.daemonology.net/freebsd-update/binup.html G.O.B.I.E.: http://www.gobie.net/ Anaconda: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/anaconda-installer/ Robert Watson's directive are very important to avoid falling into the same traps LibH did: http://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?Pine.NEB.3.96L.1040523121543.95236B-100000 I probably forget something here. Also, I am not crossposting, but there should be annonce made somewhere, probably not on -announce (since it doesn't sound so good :), but probably a project status update. I can do that last one. :) Cheers, A. From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 13 19:14:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0BD216A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:14:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.176]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F5AF43D1D for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:14:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mark.weinem@onlinehome.de) Received: from [212.227.126.208] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BkSjc-00032j-00 for libh@freebsd.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:14:36 +0200 Received: from p509010ae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([80.144.16.174]) (TLSv1:EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BkSjc-0007kI-00 for libh@freebsd.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:14:36 +0200 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:19:39 +0200 From: Mark Weinem To: libh@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040713191939.GA26973@vigor10.my.domain> References: <40C3D29F.2090304@anarcat.ath.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40C3D29F.2090304@anarcat.ath.cx> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:792133076e75aed7698b2e188f68c4a6 Subject: Re: LibH is dead. X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:14:38 -0000 On Sun, 06 Jun 2004, Anarcat wrote: > There are very fine projects on the way > that I see *should* replace libh: > > [...] > > I probably forget something here. "BSD Installer" from the DragonFly team: http://bsdinstaller.com/ Ciao, Mark Weinem From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 13 19:37:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0BC16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:37:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from jkh-gw.queasyweasel.com (adsl-64-173-3-158.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.3.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA82A43D1D for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:37:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) Received: from [64.173.15.98] (IDENT:2815-ident-is-a-completely-pointless-protocol-that-offers-no-security-or-traceability-at-all-so-tak@adsl-64-173-15-98.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.173.15.98])i6DJfakW017547; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:41:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@queasyweasel.com) In-Reply-To: <20040713191939.GA26973@vigor10.my.domain> References: <40C3D29F.2090304@anarcat.ath.cx> <20040713191939.GA26973@vigor10.my.domain> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v618) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <3007D392-D504-11D8-81E2-000393BB9222@queasyweasel.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:38:16 -0700 To: Mark Weinem X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) cc: libh@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LibH is dead. X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:37:50 -0000 Looks like they did the front end/back end abstraction that Libh always desired. Seems a good place to start! - Jordan On Jul 13, 2004, at 12:19 PM, Mark Weinem wrote: > On Sun, 06 Jun 2004, Anarcat wrote: > >> There are very fine projects on the way >> that I see *should* replace libh: >> >> [...] >> >> I probably forget something here. > > "BSD Installer" from the DragonFly team: > > http://bsdinstaller.com/ > > > Ciao, Mark Weinem > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-libh@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-libh > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-libh-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Jordan K. Hubbard Engineering Manager, BSD technology group Apple Computer From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 14 02:50:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E946A16A4CE for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:50:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A685B43D39 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:50:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from david@usermode.org) Received: from h-68-164-79-240.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.79.240] helo=scatha.home) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BkZqn-0006F5-00 for freebsd-libh@freebsd.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:50:29 -0400 From: David Johnson Organization: Usermode To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:50:28 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <40C3D29F.2090304@anarcat.ath.cx> In-Reply-To: <40C3D29F.2090304@anarcat.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200407131950.28248.david@usermode.org> Subject: Re: LibH is dead. X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:50:30 -0000 On Sunday 06 June 2004 07:27 pm, Anarcat wrote: > I hereby resign my maintainership of the libh port and project. It's > been a long time since this project had any activity other than the > occasional mailing list fart, so it is time to move on. > > I think we can all agree now that the ol' libh is dead. Please move > along, nothing to see here. There are very fine projects on the way > that I see *should* replace libh: Is it possible to keep the mailing list "open" for a while? That way announcements of replacement/successor projects would have someplace to go. -- David Johnson From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 14 14:01:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3E6B16A4CF for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:01:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp.istop.com (dci.doncaster.on.ca [66.11.168.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D52F43D3F for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:01:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from anarcat@anarcat.ath.cx) Received: from shall.anarcat.ath.cx (anarcat.mtl.istop.com [66.11.160.167]) by smtp.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F0B917C4B5; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:01:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shall.anarcat.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0AC2638C; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:00:59 -0400 From: The Anarcat To: David Johnson Message-ID: <20040714140059.GD15974@shall.anarcat.ath.cx> Mail-Followup-To: The Anarcat , David Johnson , freebsd-libh@freebsd.org References: <40C3D29F.2090304@anarcat.ath.cx> <200407131950.28248.david@usermode.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lc9FT7cWel8HagAv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200407131950.28248.david@usermode.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LibH is dead. X-BeenThere: freebsd-libh@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated to libh code development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:01:04 -0000 --lc9FT7cWel8HagAv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue Jul 13, 2004 at 07:50:28PM -0700, David Johnson wrote: > Is it possible to keep the mailing list "open" for a while? That way=20 > announcements of replacement/successor projects would have someplace to= =20 > go. Of course, I agree that this list should be kept open unil a decision is reached on the future of FreeBSD installers. I also asked jwd to keep the source on the RTP cluster safe in case anyone is mad enough to want to look at the LibH code. :) A. --lc9FT7cWel8HagAv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD4DBQFA9TyaER6HSMbwTJYRAh8wAJ0UyFtgUrAMP3zmbFRz4D0/g7l+NgCTB0KY wRM1+zQusJ6MKIe7Upw8Xw== =ZArw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lc9FT7cWel8HagAv--