From owner-freebsd-python@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 25 15:29:33 2004
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-python@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: freebsd-python@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125])
by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3BD016A4CE
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:29:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from shell.vex.net (H210.C136.B246.tor.eicat.ca [66.246.136.210])
by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AFCA43D5F
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:29:33 -0700 (PDT)
(envelope-from x@xxvii.net)
Received: from smaug.vex.net (smaug.vex.net [66.246.136.211])
by shell.vex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 754B8F311
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:29:35 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from bee.vii.net (69-90-55-67.fastdsl.ca [69.90.55.67])
by smaug.vex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA992B300
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:29:31 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by bee.vii.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id 2E4F5BD06; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:29:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tim Middleton <x@Vex.Net>
Organization: xxvii.net
To: python@freebsd.org
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:29:07 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2
References: <20040414060017.GA25716@i18n.org>
In-Reply-To: <20040414060017.GA25716@i18n.org>
X-Whee: Yes, Please.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <200404251829.07062.x@Vex.Net>
Subject: Re: Deprecation of lang/python{15,20}
X-BeenThere: freebsd-python@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: python@freebsd.org
List-Id: FreeBSD-specific Python issues <freebsd-python.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-python>,
<mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-python>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-python@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-python>,
<mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:29:33 -0000
On Wednesday 14 April 2004 02:00, Hye-Shik Chang wrote:
> If you think they are useful for you, please tell me an objection
> before the 4.10 ports freeze (April 20, 2004 22:00 UTC).
I should pay more attention to this list. Oh well, i'll add my late thoughts
anyhow. 1.5 and 2.0 are useless, and should be eliminated! Especially 2.0.
2.0 is almost actually evil (with different scoping than the rest of 2.x...
at least 2.1 complained/raised on ugly global/local scoping)... kill it!
On the other hand; if nothing depends on them, what harm can they do to leave
them? I doubt someone's specifically going to install one of those versions
and then complain about compatibility...
In other words, I guess I have both opinions. <-: Hmm, not very helpful, i
guess.
--
Tim Middleton | Cain Gang Ltd | He is no Quaker, for he hath got a Perriwig
x@veX.net | www.Vex.Net | on. [OED]
From owner-freebsd-python@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 25 15:35:39 2004
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-python@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: freebsd-python@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125])
by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F1916A4CE
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:35:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from shell.vex.net (H210.C136.B246.tor.eicat.ca [66.246.136.210])
by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6DB143D49
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:35:38 -0700 (PDT)
(envelope-from x@xxvii.net)
Received: from smaug.vex.net (smaug.vex.net [66.246.136.211])
by shell.vex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP
id 309F3F400; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:35:41 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from bee.vii.net (69-90-55-67.fastdsl.ca [69.90.55.67])
by smaug.vex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP
id C8C582B2EE; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:35:36 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by bee.vii.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id C741FBD40; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:35:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tim Middleton <x@Vex.Net>
Organization: xxvii.net
To: python@freebsd.org
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:35:12 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2
References: <20040402163827.GB11759@i18n.org> <20040413053453.GA2047@i18n.org>
<20040413102929.GA64334@augusta.de>
In-Reply-To: <20040413102929.GA64334@augusta.de>
X-Whee: Yes, Please.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <200404251835.12831.x@Vex.Net>
cc: Gerhard Schmidt <estartu@augusta.de>
Subject: Re: The zope port is updated to 2.7. [pav@FreeBSD.org: cvs commit:
ports/Mk bsd.python.mk ports/www/zope Makefile distinfo
pkg-deinstall pkg-install pkg-message pkg-plist
ports/www/zope/files CREDITS Message apache.conf.Zope-Changes
patch-lib-python-zdaemon-zdctl.py zope.conf_changes zope.sh
X-BeenThere: freebsd-python@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: python@freebsd.org
List-Id: FreeBSD-specific Python issues <freebsd-python.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-python>,
<mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-python>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-python@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-python>,
<mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:35:39 -0000
On Tuesday 13 April 2004 06:29, Gerhard Schmidt wrote:
> I Working on some Additions. The New start script. Automatic Starting of
> multiple Zope instances etc.
Finally got around to updating my boxes with new port. It's pretty good.
Maintains fairly close compatibility with the old port, with the few
necessary changes.
One thing I wonder about though is making the user do a "make instance" after
installing. It seems to me that, by default, the default instance should be
made automatically... so people who don't know about Zope and setting up
instances can just "make install" and be ready to run.
Maybe a NO_DEFAULT_INSTANCE variable (or a better looking variable with that
meaning) could be used to disable this for people who want to install their
instance(s) other places. And creating the default instance accidentally
doesn't hurt anyone; it can be just ignored if someone doesn't want to use
it.
Oh, and starting multiple instances automatically would be nice, yes. (-:
--
Tim Middleton | Cain Gang Ltd | I have lived through whole tragedies
x@veX.net | www.Vex.Net | without speaking a word. --Dost. (GC)
From owner-freebsd-python@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 25 16:18:55 2004
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-python@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: freebsd-python@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125])
by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8143016A4CE
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:18:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66])
by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 421EA43D53
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:18:55 -0700 (PDT)
(envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com)
Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502)
id AEB2C147AC; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:18:54 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:18:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com>
X-X-Sender: linimon@pancho
To: python@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <200404251829.07062.x@Vex.Net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404251814270.679-100000@pancho>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Deprecation of lang/python{15,20}
X-BeenThere: freebsd-python@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
List-Id: FreeBSD-specific Python issues <freebsd-python.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-python>,
<mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-python>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-python@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-python>,
<mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:18:55 -0000
On Sun, 25 Apr 2004, Tim Middleton wrote:
> On the other hand; if nothing depends on them, what harm can they do
> to leave them?
1. User confusion: what's the "right" version? It also clutters up
the port list web page.
2. Build resources: bento.FreeBSD.org continuously builds all packages
both as a QA step, and to make them available to users who choose not
to build from ports.
3. Download time: currently, anyone who wants to track the ports
collection needs to download the entire tarball or track the CVS files
(IMHO, this is a bug, but ...) In any case, the download time and
tarball extraction is an annoyance for some users.
mcl
From owner-freebsd-python@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 25 18:56:55 2004
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-python@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: freebsd-python@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125])
by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B37C16A4CE
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:56:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from shell.vex.net (H210.C136.B246.tor.eicat.ca [66.246.136.210])
by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0534443D48
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:56:55 -0700 (PDT)
(envelope-from x@xxvii.net)
Received: from smaug.vex.net (smaug.vex.net [66.246.136.211])
by shell.vex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19927F3CC
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:56:58 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from bee.vii.net (69-90-55-67.fastdsl.ca [69.90.55.67])
by smaug.vex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30862B87B
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:56:52 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by bee.vii.net (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id D7A5CBD40; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:56:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tim Middleton <x@Vex.Net>
Organization: xxvii.net
To: python@freebsd.org
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:56:27 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404251814270.679-100000@pancho>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404251814270.679-100000@pancho>
X-Whee: Yes, Please.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <200404252156.27807.x@Vex.Net>
Subject: Re: Deprecation of lang/python{15,20}
X-BeenThere: freebsd-python@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
Reply-To: python@freebsd.org
List-Id: FreeBSD-specific Python issues <freebsd-python.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-python>,
<mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-python>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-python@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-python>,
<mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:56:55 -0000
Bah, i shouldn't post this. But it's sunday night, and i'm avoiding toing
other work i should have done for monday morning... and this list needs more
posts... so what the heck... Just understand that I'm mostly playing devil's
advocate (ie. wasting your time) below... <-;
On Sunday 25 April 2004 19:18, Mark Linimon wrote:
> 1. User confusion: what's the "right" version? It also clutters up
> the port list web page.
Not much less confusion with 21 and 22 still there. Most poeple would figure
out "ports/python" as the default I think; and those that wouldn't would
likely take the highest number I'd think. Or just do a binary install from
sysinstall. Or pick up the "right" version as the default dependancy from
whatever python-needing port they are wanting to build.
> 2. Build resources: bento.FreeBSD.org continuously builds all packages
> both as a QA step, and to make them available to users who choose not
This, and just general 'cleanliness', of the ports on principle are the best
arguments for the removal, I think. Give bento a break; a worthy cause.
Active moves should be made to get rid of 2.1 and 2.2 as well as soon as
possible on this principle. (Yeah, i know, it was suggested 2.1 is possibly
of interest for compatibility with debian woody, old redhat, etc...
perhaps... though not a goal i personally aspire to!)
> 3. Download time: currently, anyone who wants to track the ports
> collection needs to download the entire tarball or track the CVS files
> (IMHO, this is a bug, but ...) In any case, the download time and
I agree; the ports tree is very, very big... and painfully long to extract. I
doubt removing two ports is going ot help all that much though. And while the
principle of cleanliness above might be used here, there's not all that many
ports in the position that python is in of having multiple simultaneously
active versions. (I'm a fan of misc/porteasy to solve this problem... lets me
maintain a tree of more-or-less just the ports i use, updated via CVS fairly
easily... has occassional problems, but mostly works... especially if hacked
to use an anoncvs mirror... porteasy -a -u -I)
That being said, I have to maintain one old box with a fairly large python app
on it which is restricted to Python 2.0 (the app isn't; just this box is!),
and I'm not allowed to upgrade it. Perhaps i'm just bitter and want to share
the multi-version misery. <-; (Unfortunately the box is not a FreeBSD box, so
removing 2.0 from ports won't bother the owners...)
Okay, i'm done wasting everyone's time now. Delete away. I'll only be slightly
sad to see 1.5 go... just for purely nostalgic reasons... it was the first
version of Python to truly enlighten my programming path.... bon voyage
Python 1.5 port, rest in peace.
--
Tim Middleton | Cain Gang Ltd | There are a thousand hacking at the branches
x@veX.net | www.Vex.Net | of evil [but who] at the root. --Thoreau (W)
From owner-freebsd-python@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 25 23:07:17 2004
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-python@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: freebsd-python@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125])
by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC03916A4CE
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:07:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from etustar.ze.tum.de (etustar.ze.tum.de [129.187.39.96])
by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0337B43D53
for <python@freebsd.org>; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:07:17 -0700 (PDT)
(envelope-from estartu@etustar.ze.tum.de)
Received: from etustar.ze.tum.de (estartu@localhost.ze.tu-muenchen.de
[127.0.0.1])
by etustar.ze.tum.de (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i3Q67F86013929;
Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:07:15 +0200 (CEST)
(envelope-from estartu@etustar.ze.tum.de)
Received: (from estartu@localhost)
by etustar.ze.tum.de (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i3Q67FwM013928;
Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:07:15 +0200 (CEST)
(envelope-from estartu)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:07:15 +0200
From: Gerhard Schmidt <estartu@augusta.de>
To: python@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <20040426060715.GA13891@augusta.de>
References: <20040402163827.GB11759@i18n.org> <20040413053453.GA2047@i18n.org>
<20040413102929.GA64334@augusta.de> <200404251835.12831.x@Vex.Net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <200404251835.12831.x@Vex.Net>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i
Subject: Re: The zope port is updated to 2.7. [pav@FreeBSD.org: cvs commit:
ports/Mk bsd.python.mk ports/www/zope Makefile distinfo
pkg-deinstall pkg-install pkg-message pkg-plist
ports/www/zope/files CREDITS Message apache.conf.Zope-Changes
patch-lib-python-zdaemon-zdctl.py zope.conf_changes zope.sh
X-BeenThere: freebsd-python@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
List-Id: FreeBSD-specific Python issues <freebsd-python.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-python>,
<mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-python>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-python@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-python>,
<mailto:freebsd-python-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:07:17 -0000
--bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Apr 25, 2004 at 06:35:12PM -0400, Tim Middleton wrote:
> On Tuesday 13 April 2004 06:29, Gerhard Schmidt wrote:
> > I Working on some Additions. The New start script. Automatic Starting of
> > multiple Zope instances etc.
>=20
> Finally got around to updating my boxes with new port. It's pretty good.=
=20
> Maintains fairly close compatibility with the old port, with the few=20
> necessary changes.
>=20
> One thing I wonder about though is making the user do a "make instance" a=
fter=20
> installing. It seems to me that, by default, the default instance should =
be=20
> made automatically... so people who don't know about Zope and setting up=
=20
> instances can just "make install" and be ready to run.=20
There is a message after make install that a make install has to be done. I
don't run a make instance because of the fakt that files installed by=20
make instance aren=B4t deleted by pkg_delete. They have to type make instan=
ce=20
as a confirmation that they have read this.=20
=20
> Maybe a NO_DEFAULT_INSTANCE variable (or a better looking variable with t=
hat=20
> meaning) could be used to disable this for people who want to install the=
ir=20
> instance(s) other places. And creating the default instance accidentally=
=20
> doesn't hurt anyone; it can be just ignored if someone doesn't want to us=
e=20
> it.
yes it does. Becaus teh default location for instances is ${PREFIX}/www/Zop=
e=20
and its difficult to sepeate zopefiles and instancefiles after install.=20
=20
> Oh, and starting multiple instances automatically would be nice, yes. (-:=
=20
The latest update to the zope port has a startupscript that can run=20
multiple instances.=20
Regards=20
Estartu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerhard Schmidt | Nick : estartu IRC : Estartu | PGP Public Key
Fischbachweg 3 | Privat: estartu@augusta.de | auf Anfrage/
86856 Hiltenfingen | Dienst: schmidt@ze.tu-muenchen.de | on request
--bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Disposition: inline
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
MessageID: 9e0lL8YPRqN3SxDyyPLlhdUV2QxkW5Xz
iQCVAwUBQIynEgzx22nOTJQRAQHAAQP/e9yZ84NypqOoLB7X6BmIEN0d5ouv+Qop
VbL6jMPCe/OCJYswyI513JiGg/3LgTSxW0oTi2JetpsdU3QhnZtnCa5T4sujYCQB
0HaTnMFrqJaXWr+e7EQUKj/8pFObfGybgp+ldxTBddC90hABxEotGlJT253BjUay
YzdRtpZrdOk=
=gnRm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5--