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From: FreeBSD bugmaster <bugmaster@freebsd.org>
To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Current problem reports assigned to you
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Current FreeBSD problem reports
Critical problems
Serious problems
Non-critical problems
S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
o [2000/01/03] misc/15876 small PicoBSD message of the day problems
o [2001/06/18] misc/28255 small picobsd documentation still references ol
o [2002/09/13] kern/42728 small many problems in src/usr.sbin/ppp/* afte
o [2003/01/12] misc/46998 small [patch] Support PicoBSD source in other l
o [2003/05/14] misc/52255 small picobsd build script fails under FreeBSD
o [2003/05/14] misc/52256 small picobsd build script does not read in use
6 problems total.
From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 5 04:05:25 2004
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Subject: PicoBSD diskless embedded 'where to start'
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Hello,
I'm trying to put together a diskless embedded system based on
the PicoBSD scripts supplied with FreeBSD 4.8R.
On the ~picobsd home page there is a line:
Here you can find information on specific projects...:
* A Practical Guide to Building Embedded FreeBSD System. (Not yet available)
But, since the page was last updated five years ago, is it possible
that the doc has since come out?
If not, can I ask here about steps to take? I've tried following the
instructions in the picoBSD doc/intro.html and how2build.html files,
but I can't seem to get the steps right for booting a RAM resident
image.
1) I need to build a PicoBSD system that will boot from a flash device
(SanDisk at the moment, may need support for M-Systems DiskOnChip later)
2) The system will run out of RAM, there will be no HDD available.
3) The flash will have two partitions, the boot image and compressed
memory-resident runtime will be stored in the lower, read-only one.
The upper one will be for precious data required across boots.
Thanks for any help anyone can give me!
Regards,
Richard
From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 5 07:02:14 2004
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To: Richard.Williamson@u4eatech.com, freebsd-small@freebsd.org
From: Bob Bishop <rb@gid.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: PicoBSD diskless embedded 'where to start'
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Hi,
At 12:05 5/2/04, Richard.Williamson@u4eatech.com wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I'm trying to put together a diskless embedded system based on
>the PicoBSD scripts supplied with FreeBSD 4.8R.
>
>On the ~picobsd home page there is a line:
>
>Here you can find information on specific projects...:
> * A Practical Guide to Building Embedded FreeBSD System. (Not yet
> available)
>
>But, since the page was last updated five years ago, is it possible
>that the doc has since come out? [etc]
man picobsd
--
Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 977 4017
rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 989 4254
From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 5 11:11:55 2004
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From: "Bruce R. Montague" <brucem@mail.cruzio.com>
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To: Richard.Williamson@u4eatech.com
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Subject: Re: PicoBSD diskless embedded 'where to start'
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Hi, Richard. re:
> ... can I ask here about steps to take?
The following "FAQ" is somewhat dated (being most
specific to FreeBSD 4.3) but is thorough and has
helped a lot of people get up to speed on PicoBSD:
http://alumni.cse.ucsc.edu/~brucem/pico_notes.htm
http://www.cse.ucsc.edu/~brucem/pico_notes.htm
Current versions of FreeBSD (other than perhaps
"bridge" will not likely fit on a floppy. However,
if you read over this doc and customize a picobsd
to your needs, picobsd can work great. I've run
picobsd booting off SanDisk CD a good bit. You
can also do neat stuff like netboot piocbsd pretty
easily.
Some folks inquired about folding some of this
doc into FreeBSD doc a good while back, and at
one time that was someone's intent, but the problem
seems to be that picobsd is a bit brittle in that
as FreeBSD versions change and grow, there are often
minor "breakage" and size issues with picobsd.
It's a slight moving target.
More people probably use picobsd to "roll
their own version" than just use the standard
configs.
This picobsd "FAQ" was aimed at encouraging
students to get into embedded systems, so there's
a lot of stuff in it that is not specific to
FreeBSD/PicoBSD, and I never got around to
going back and cleaning it up.
The "man picobsd" page is now fairly extensive.
- bruce
From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 5 14:39:22 2004
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From: "Cybertime Hostmaster" <hostmaster@cybertime.net>
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Subject: Re: PicoBSD diskless embedded 'where to start'
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> I'm trying to put together a diskless embedded system based on
> the PicoBSD scripts supplied with FreeBSD 4.8R.
Just as a point of interest, any special reason why PicoBSD?
> 1) I need to build a PicoBSD system that will boot from a flash device
> (SanDisk at the moment, may need support for M-Systems DiskOnChip later)
The smallest M-Systems seems to have is 16 MB.
http://www.m-sys.com/Content/Products/DiskOnChip.asp
> 2) The system will run out of RAM, there will be no HDD available.
> 3) The flash will have two partitions, the boot image and compressed
> memory-resident runtime will be stored in the lower, read-only one.
> The upper one will be for precious data required across boots.
It sounds like you will have more room than a floppy.
Pico makes some hard choices based off of fitting into a floppy. If you
are going to allow a bit more space, you might want to look at a different
BSD. But if you have something already developed for Pico, it may be
worth it to stay with them.
m0n0BSD is another good choice from what I have seen.
http://m0n0.ch/bsd/
That one will fit on an 8 MB CF and have plenty of room to spare. So the
16 MB DiskOnChip would be a huge volume of space. Heck, you could have 2
copies of the whole OS to go from one to another while upgrading.
--Eric
From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 5 19:18:11 2004
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From: "Bruce R. Montague" <brucem@mail.cruzio.com>
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To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: PicoBSD diskless embedded 'where to start'
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I just built a picobsd "bridge" configuration on a
4.9-Stable system, and it seems to boot and run fine. I
commented out all the "sshd" references in "crunch.conf"
as this configuration appears to expect that the picobsd
sshd port has previously been built.
The entire build took about a minute. It was almost faster
than the time taken to write the floppy image to the
floppy.
The compressed kernel, containing everything, on the floppy
was about 1.2 Mbytes. The same uncompressed kernel was
around 3.7 Mbytes.
If you need to make your own picobsd, this may be one
way to start. It may be more helpful to consider picobsd
a kernel build wrapper tool than a specific "system".
I used to routinely keep 2 picobsd systems on M-Systems
8 Mbyte Disk-On-Chip flash devices, maybe they don't
make them anymore. Looks like this could still be done,
just barely.
- bruce
From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 5 22:31:46 2004
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Subject: Re: PicoBSD diskless embedded 'where to start'
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Cybertime Hostmaster wrote:
|>I'm trying to put together a diskless embedded system based on
|>the PicoBSD scripts supplied with FreeBSD 4.8R.
|
|
|
| Just as a point of interest, any special reason why PicoBSD?
|
|
|>1) I need to build a PicoBSD system that will boot from a flash device
|>(SanDisk at the moment, may need support for M-Systems DiskOnChip later)
|
|
| The smallest M-Systems seems to have is 16 MB.
You beat me to it. The typical flash drive sold now is 128MB and if you
have the money you can go up to 2GB. You can boot any number of
operating systems from that kind of storage, and they don't need to be
stripped down. Even the very smallest flash drive I ever heard of,
16MB, holds eleven floppies worth of data; enough for a fairly complete
FreeBSD OS and room left for config data.
Interesting project by the way. Though I bet booting off USB has alredy
been done somewhere.
- --
Chris Fox, Windows User, Linux User (#341856), non-partisan
"[The multiplicity of reality at large] is an inescapable consequence of
[quantum theory's] allowing superpositions of what classical physics
would regard as mutually exclusive alternatives."
~ -- Michael Lockwood /Brit. J. Phil. Sci./ (1995)
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From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 6 02:06:38 2004
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Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 10:02:18 +0000
To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org,
"Bruce R. Montague" <brucem@mail.cruzio.com>
From: "Richard P. Williamson" <richard.williamson@u4eatech.com>
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Subject: Re: PicoBSD diskless embedded 'where to start'
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I've looked through man picobsd, as well as the docs supplied
with the scripts themselves; I've found them both to be structured
other than the way my brain works. Polite way of admitting that
I've not figured them out yet :\
And your link I like, it has what I'm looking for...pardon me
while I bookmark that puppy.
rip
At 21:08 05/02/2004, Bruce R. Montague wrote:
> Hi, Richard. re:
>
> > ... can I ask here about steps to take?
>
> The following "FAQ" is somewhat dated (being most
>specific to FreeBSD 4.3) but is thorough and has
>helped a lot of people get up to speed on PicoBSD:
>
> http://alumni.cse.ucsc.edu/~brucem/pico_notes.htm
>
> http://www.cse.ucsc.edu/~brucem/pico_notes.htm
>
>
> Current versions of FreeBSD (other than perhaps
>"bridge" will not likely fit on a floppy. However,
>if you read over this doc and customize a picobsd
>to your needs, picobsd can work great. I've run
>picobsd booting off SanDisk CD a good bit. You
>can also do neat stuff like netboot piocbsd pretty
>easily.
>
> Some folks inquired about folding some of this
>doc into FreeBSD doc a good while back, and at
>one time that was someone's intent, but the problem
>seems to be that picobsd is a bit brittle in that
>as FreeBSD versions change and grow, there are often
>minor "breakage" and size issues with picobsd.
>It's a slight moving target.
>
>More people probably use picobsd to "roll
>their own version" than just use the standard
>configs.
>
>This picobsd "FAQ" was aimed at encouraging
>students to get into embedded systems, so there's
>a lot of stuff in it that is not specific to
>FreeBSD/PicoBSD, and I never got around to
>going back and cleaning it up.
>
>The "man picobsd" page is now fairly extensive.
>
>
>
> - bruce
--
Richard Williamson richard.williamson@u4eatech.com
U4EA Technologies Ltd +44 (0) 117 373 6760
Bristol, UK BS1 6PL x5030
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Subject: Re: PicoBSD diskless embedded 'where to start'
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At 22:51 05/02/2004, Cybertime Hostmaster wrote:
>> I'm trying to put together a diskless embedded system based on
>> the PicoBSD scripts supplied with FreeBSD 4.8R.
>
>
>Just as a point of interest, any special reason why PicoBSD?
PicoBSD is the starting point really. I know I've got oodles of
space to work with, but Pico /starts/ with the configuration for
booting from other-than an HDD and into memory...which is the
development path I need to get working. But also I've got a
/lot/ of application I need to get in there.
>m0n0BSD is another good choice from what I have seen.
FreeBSD vs Linux decision made prior to my hire...
rip
--
Richard Williamson richard.williamson@u4eatech.com
U4EA Technologies Ltd +44 (0) 117 373 6760
Bristol, UK BS1 6PL x5030
From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Feb 6 08:41:31 2004
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sten_Daniel_S=F8rsdal?= <sten.daniel.sorsdal@wan.no>
To: "Richard P. Williamson" <richard.williamson@u4eatech.com>,
<freebsd-small@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: PicoBSD diskless embedded 'where to start'
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> >m0n0BSD is another good choice from what I have seen.
>=20
> FreeBSD vs Linux decision made prior to my hire...
>=20
I dont understand, m0n0BSD, m0n0WALL and PicoBSD are all FreeBSD.
_// Sten Daniel S=F8rsdal
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Subject: Re: PicoBSD diskless embedded 'where to start'
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> >m0n0BSD is another good choice from what I have seen.
>
> FreeBSD vs Linux decision made prior to my hire...
m0n0BSD is a FreeBSD child, so it fits within that requirement.
Personally there are many reasons I like FreeBSD over LINUX, some of which
are practical ones. But here is something to keep in mind if you are more
comfortable with LINUX: FreeBSD has LINUX compatibity support.
So with the added space of modern silicon disks you might be able to
install the required FreeBSD, as well as LINUX compatibility to support
LINUX based tools that you prefer.
A couple other things to think about with m0n0BSD. Like the link provided
by Richard for Pico shows, m0n0 is built on a more modern kernel. His
link references the 4.3 for Pico, and m0n0 presently uses the 4.9. The
original Pico and some samples I have seen date back to the 2.x era
Kernel.
Another guy out there has done some work in the same direction you are now
heading. Start with PicoBSD, but do something more modern. His pages
also discuss some 5.x specific issues, so if you need to step up to the
most modern FreeBSD kernel to support something, that may be the place to
look.
http://neon1.net/misc/minibsd.html
--Eric