From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 8 11:01:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 180EF16A4CE for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:01:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1278743D1D for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:01:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (peter@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i28J1gbv072766 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:01:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i28J1g3D072761 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:01:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:01:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200403081901.i28J1g3D072761@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: peter set sender to owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.org Subject: Current problem reports assigned to you X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:01:43 -0000 Current FreeBSD problem reports Critical problems Serious problems Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2000/01/03] misc/15876 small PicoBSD message of the day problems o [2001/06/18] misc/28255 small picobsd documentation still references ol o [2002/09/13] kern/42728 small many problems in src/usr.sbin/ppp/* afte o [2003/01/12] misc/46998 small [patch] Support PicoBSD source in other l o [2003/05/14] misc/52255 small picobsd build script fails under FreeBSD o [2003/05/14] misc/52256 small picobsd build script does not read in use 6 problems total. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 9 15:16:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B43D916A4CE; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:16:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D218243D1F; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:16:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i29NGbS5036091; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:16:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: current@freebsd.org, small@freebsd.org From: Poul-Henning Kamp Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:16:37 +0100 Message-ID: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> Subject: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:16:40 -0000 This patch contains my "nanobsd" prototype which I have been mumbling about. What this does is build a CF friendly image with three slices, two "image" slices and an "etc" slice. The two image slices can be booted as read-only root filesystems and when one is used, the other can be updated with a new image. Boot0 is used so you can select which of the two you want to boot from. If you update the image in slice2 you need to change /etc/fstab to match (sed -i "" -e s/ad0s1/ad0s2/ /mnt/etc/fstab) The etc slice (ad0s3) is where all the machine specific files for /etc should go. To try this out you need a -current system which has the etc/rc.d/initdiskless commit I made a minute ago and then: mkdir /usr/src/nanobsd cd /usr/src/nanobsd patch < this_file # possibly edit Makefile and make.conf make obj make dd if=/usr/obj/`pwd`/_.i of=/dev/$CFDEVICE bs=64k mount /dev/${CFDEVICE}s3 /mnt cp /the/stuff/I/want/in/etc/* /mnt umount /mnt # move CF device to embedded platform and try it. Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation to arrive as it gets written. Poul-Henning --- /dev/null Wed Mar 10 00:02:50 2004 +++ Makefile Tue Mar 9 23:54:53 2004 @@ -0,0 +1,121 @@ +# $FreeBSD$ + +MAKEJ="-j12" + +HD=16 +SC=32 +SECTS=501760 +DATASLICE=2048 + +KERNCONF?= GENERIC +WORLDDIR?= ${.CURDIR}/.. +WD?= ${.OBJDIR}/_.w + +all: buildworld installworld buildimage + + +# +# This is where you customizations to the image can be performed +# Please make sure to do everything relative to ${WD} here. +# +Customize: _.cs +_.cs: _.iw _.di _.ik _.di + echo "/dev/ad0s1a / ufs ro 1 1" > ${WD}/etc/fstab + sed -i "" -e /beastie/d ${WD}/boot/loader.rc + sed -i "" -e /ttyd0/s/off/on/ ${WD}/etc/ttys + echo " -h" > ${WD}/boot.config + touch _.cs + +########################################################################### +# +# The rest is pretty (or ugly if you prefer) magic, and should generally +# not need to be fiddled with. Good luck if you need to venture past this +# point. +# + +# Run a buildworld with our private make.conf +buildworld: _.bw +_.bw: + (cd ${WORLDDIR} && \ + make ${MAKEJ} -s buildworld __MAKE_CONF=${.CURDIR}/make.conf \ + ) > _.bw.tmp 2>&1 + mv _.bw.tmp _.bw + +# Run installworld and install into our object directory +installworld: _.iw +_.iw: _.bw + -rm -rf ${WD} > /dev/null 2>&1 + -chflags -R noschg ${WD} > /dev/null 2>&1 + rm -rf ${WD} + mkdir -p ${WD} + (cd ${WORLDDIR} && \ + make ${MAKEJ} -s installworld \ + DESTDIR=${WD} \ + __MAKE_CONF=${.CURDIR}/make.conf \ + ) > _.iw.tmp 2>&1 + mv _.iw.tmp _.iw + +# Run distribution target in /etc. +_.di: _.iw + mkdir -p ${WD} + (cd ${WORLDDIR}/etc && \ + make ${MAKEJ} -s distribution \ + DESTDIR=${WD} \ + __MAKE_CONF=${.CURDIR}/make.conf \ + ) > _.di.tmp 2>&1 + mv _.di.tmp _.di + +# Build kernel +_.bk: ${WORLDDIR}/sys/i386/conf/${KERNCONF} + (cd ${WORLDDIR} && \ + make ${MAKEJ} -s buildkernel \ + KERNCONF=${KERNCONF} \ + __MAKE_CONF=${.CURDIR}/make.conf \ + ) > _.bk.tmp 2>&1 + mv _.bk.tmp _.bk + +# Install kernel and hints file +_.ik: _.bk _.di + cp ${WORLDDIR}/sys/i386/conf/GENERIC.hints ${WD}/boot/device.hints + (cd ${WORLDDIR} && \ + make ${MAKEJ} installkernel \ + KERNCONF=${KERNCONF} \ + DESTDIR=${WD} \ + __MAKE_CONF=${.CURDIR}/make.conf \ + ) > _.ik.tmp 2>&1 + mv _.ik.tmp _.ik + + +# Create a disk image from the installed image +buildimage: _.md +_.md: _.cs + -umount ${WD}/dev > /dev/null 2>&1 + chflags -R noschg ${WD} > /dev/null 2>&1 + rm -rf ${WD}/var/* ${WD}/dev/* ${WD}/tmp + # create trigger file for etc/rc.d/initdiskless + touch ${WD}/etc/diskless + mkdir -p ${WD}/conf/base/var + mtree -deU -f ${WD}/etc/mtree/BSD.var.dist -p ${WD}/conf/base/var + mkdir -p ${WD}/conf/base/etc + ( cd ${WD}/etc && find . -print | cpio -dumpl ../conf/base/etc ) + mkdir -p ${WD}/conf/default/etc + echo "mount -o ro /dev/ad0s3" > ${WD}/conf/default/etc/remount + ln -s var/tmp ${WD}/tmp + mtree -deU -f ${WD}/etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist -p ${WD}/ + mtree -deU -f ${WD}/etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p ${WD}/usr + mtree -deU -f ${WD}/etc/mtree/BSD.include.dist -p ${WD}/usr/include +.if exists(${WD}/etc/mtree/BSD.sendmail.dist) + mtree -deU -f ${WD}/etc/mtree/BSD.sendmail.dist -p ${WD}/ +.endif + (cd ${WD} && mtree -c -Kmd5digest ) > _.mtree.tmp + ${.CURDIR}/i386.diskimage \ + ${SECTS} \ + ${HD} \ + ${SC} \ + ${DATASLICE} \ + ${WD} ${.OBJDIR}/_.i \ + > _.md.tmp 2>&1 + mv _.mtree.tmp _.mtree + mv _.md.tmp _.md + +.include --- /dev/null Wed Mar 10 00:02:50 2004 +++ i386.diskimage Tue Mar 9 22:52:49 2004 @@ -0,0 +1,31 @@ +#!/bin/sh +# ${.CURDIR}/i386.diskimage $SECTS $HD $SC $DATASLICE ${.OBJDIR}/_.w ${.OBJDIR}/_.i +# XXX: newfs params. + +set -ex + +dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/$$.d count=$1 +MD=`mdconfig -a -t vnode -f /tmp/$$.d -x $3 -y $2` +rm -f /tmp/$$.d +( +sl=`expr "(" $1 - $3 - $4 ")" / 2` +echo p 1 165 $3 $sl +echo p 2 165 `expr $3 + $sl` $sl +echo p 3 165 `expr $3 + $sl + $sl` $4 +) > /tmp/$$ +cat /tmp/$$ +fdisk -i -f /tmp/$$ $MD +fdisk $MD +boot0cfg -B -b /boot/boot0sio -s 1 -m 3 $MD +rm -f /tmp/$$ +bsdlabel -w -B ${MD}s1 +newfs -O1 -U ${MD}s1a +newfs -O1 -U ${MD}s3 +mount /dev/${MD}s1a /mnt +(cd $5 && find . -print | cpio -dump /mnt) || true +df /mnt +umount /mnt +dd if=/dev/${MD}s1 of=/dev/${MD}s2 bs=64k +dd if=/dev/${MD} of=$6 bs=64k +dd if=/dev/${MD}s1 of=${6}.s1 bs=64k +mdconfig -d -u ${MD} --- /dev/null Wed Mar 10 00:02:50 2004 +++ make.conf Tue Mar 9 22:50:34 2004 @@ -0,0 +1,31 @@ +NO_SENDMAIL=yes +NO_KERBEROS=yes +NO_IPFILTER=yes +NO_LPR=yes +NO_I4B=yes +NO_CXX=yes +NO_FORTRAN=yes +NO_OBJC=yes +NOHTML=yes +NO_GDB=yes +NO_GCOV=yes +NOINET6=yes +NORADIUS=yes +NOPROFILE=yes +NOLIBPTHREAD=yes +NOLIBTHR=yes +#NO_YP_LIBC=yes +NO_HESIOD_LIBC=yes +NO_SHAREDOCS=yes +NO_CVS=yes +NOMAN=yes +NOATM=yes +NO_USB=yes +NO_VINUM=yes +NO_TOOLCHAIN=yes +NO_ACPI=yes +NO_RESCUE=yes +NOGAMES=yes +NOINFO=yes +NO_MODULES=yes +NO_PF=YES -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 9 15:29:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61E4716A4CE; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:29:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (xorpc.icir.org [192.150.187.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4301443D2D; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:29:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo@icir.org) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i29NT99Q008859; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:29:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo@xorpc.icir.org) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.3/Submit) id i29NT9R5008858; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:29:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:29:09 -0800 From: Luigi Rizzo To: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-ID: <20040309152909.A8458@xorpc.icir.org> References: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk>; from phk@phk.freebsd.dk on Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 12:16:37AM +0100 cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:29:10 -0000 On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 12:16:37AM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > This patch contains my "nanobsd" prototype which I have been mumbling > about. possibly related question for you. What are the implications in letting mdconfig/mount_mfs available to the general user (or suid) instead of making them restricted to root only ? Apart from a few places where the buildworld scripts try to do an 'install' (but i believe the uid/gid to install with can be tweaked), i think this is the only part where the building of {Free|pico|nano}bsd require to be run as root. Am I missing something ? cheers luigi From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 9 16:02:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81BD16A4CE; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:02:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from eddie.nitro.dk (port324.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk [212.242.113.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2951A43D2D; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:02:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from simon@zaphod.nitro.dk) Received: from zaphod.nitro.dk (zaphod.bofh [192.168.2.10]) by eddie.nitro.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08FDD1169F; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:02:05 +0100 (CET) Received: by zaphod.nitro.dk (Postfix, from userid 3000) id DDEBA1189F; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:02:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:02:04 +0100 From: "Simon L. Nielsen" To: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-ID: <20040310000203.GG834@zaphod.nitro.dk> References: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="iBwuxWUsK/REspAd" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:02:06 -0000 --iBwuxWUsK/REspAd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2004.03.10 00:16:37 +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >=20 > This patch contains my "nanobsd" prototype which I have been mumbling > about. [...] > Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation > to arrive as it gets written. First; this is really neat :-). I have some more patches (based on your earlier snapshot) I have been working on - I will try to clean up and merge tomorrow. I also have a manual page which is now begining to have some actual content. --=20 Simon L. Nielsen FreeBSD Documentation Team --iBwuxWUsK/REspAd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFATlr7h9pcDSc1mlERAtVLAKC1xYj/6aFjCQMn8nfL2QlJsMBV9QCggOnJ tYkjWfkyBuvbrtcqTC6ajRc= =sXTg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --iBwuxWUsK/REspAd-- From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 9 22:11:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFEDD16A4CE; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3B9243D41; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:11:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2A6AwQB038279; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:10:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Luigi Rizzo From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 09 Mar 2004 15:29:09 PST." <20040309152909.A8458@xorpc.icir.org> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:10:58 +0100 Message-ID: <38278.1078899058@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:11:02 -0000 In message <20040309152909.A8458@xorpc.icir.org>, Luigi Rizzo writes: >On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 12:16:37AM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> >> This patch contains my "nanobsd" prototype which I have been mumbling >> about. > >possibly related question for you. What are the implications >in letting mdconfig/mount_mfs available to the general >user (or suid) instead of making them restricted to root only ? Misuse of mdconfig is a panic(8). -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 10 03:36:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4DE316A4D1; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:36:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from abigail.blackend.org (blackend.org [212.11.35.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A1443D31; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:36:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marc@blackend.org) Received: from abigail.blackend.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by abigail.blackend.org (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i2ABaFrZ003473; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:36:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marc@abigail.blackend.org) Received: (from marc@localhost) by abigail.blackend.org (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id i2ABaDJp003472; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:36:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marc) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:36:12 +0100 From: Marc Fonvieille To: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-ID: <20040310113611.GA1241@abigail.blackend.org> References: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Useless-Header: blackend.org X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:36:20 -0000 On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 12:16:37AM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: [...] > > Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation > to arrive as it gets written. > It'd be great to be able to choose, via a parameter, between a 3 slices version and a 2 slices one. Or one should trim down the installed images, a 128MB CF card should be the minimal media size. Well I know 256MB will be less expensive in future, and since I'm still using 8MB cards on the 4501, I must be an outdated guy :)) Anyway, it's really great to have this nanoBSD in our tree! Marc From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 10 03:57:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2231E16A4CE; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:57:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC3843D2D; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:57:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2ABvW9v040929; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:57:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Marc Fonvieille From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:36:12 +0100." <20040310113611.GA1241@abigail.blackend.org> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:57:32 +0100 Message-ID: <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:57:36 -0000 In message <20040310113611.GA1241@abigail.blackend.org>, Marc Fonvieille writes : >On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 12:16:37AM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >[...] >> >> Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation >> to arrive as it gets written. >> > >It'd be great to be able to choose, via a parameter, between a 3 slices >version and a 2 slices one. Or one should trim down the installed >images, a 128MB CF card should be the minimal media size. >Well I know 256MB will be less expensive in future, and since I'm still >using 8MB cards on the 4501, I must be an outdated guy :)) Not long ago I manually cut down a -current to run in 32MB but I admit that there were a fair bit of stuff missing :-) My main goal with this is to give us a common ground to work from, and avoid us all reinventing the deep plate and the hot water over and over again. Patches which improve it are most welcome :-) Poul-Henning PS: I've committed it to src/tools/tools/nanobsd in order to make it easier for me now that the patches will be pouring in :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 10 04:26:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E8D216A4CE; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:26:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from abigail.blackend.org (blackend.org [212.11.35.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898A343D46; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:26:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marc@blackend.org) Received: from abigail.blackend.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by abigail.blackend.org (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i2ACQkrZ004227; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:26:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marc@abigail.blackend.org) Received: (from marc@localhost) by abigail.blackend.org (8.12.9/8.12.3/Submit) id i2ACQhSJ004226; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:26:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from marc) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:26:42 +0100 From: Marc Fonvieille To: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-ID: <20040310122641.GB1241@abigail.blackend.org> References: <20040310113611.GA1241@abigail.blackend.org> <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Useless-Header: blackend.org X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-STABLE cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:26:52 -0000 On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 12:57:32PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > >It'd be great to be able to choose, via a parameter, between a 3 slices > >version and a 2 slices one. Or one should trim down the installed > >images, a 128MB CF card should be the minimal media size. > >Well I know 256MB will be less expensive in future, and since I'm still > >using 8MB cards on the 4501, I must be an outdated guy :)) > > Not long ago I manually cut down a -current to run in 32MB but I > admit that there were a fair bit of stuff missing :-) > My previous mail was not really correct: the 8MB cards use picobsd which is different from your nanobsd (the difference is not 10E-3 ;) but the nanobsd name is really well-chosen). Marc From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 10 04:38:44 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3490516A4CE for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:38:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ares.wolfpond.org (ns1.wolfpond.org [62.212.96.219]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9785343D39 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:38:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ftigeot@wolfpond.org) Received: from ares.wolfpond.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ares.wolfpond.org (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2ACcTxC082935; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:38:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from greywolf@ares.wolfpond.org) Received: (from greywolf@localhost) by ares.wolfpond.org (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2ACcSum082934; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:38:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from greywolf) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:38:27 +0100 From: Francois Tigeot To: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-ID: <20040310123827.GH40161@ares.wolfpond.org> References: <20040310113611.GA1241@abigail.blackend.org> <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: thinbsd@cogidis.com cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:38:44 -0000 On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 12:57:32PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20040310113611.GA1241@abigail.blackend.org>, Marc Fonvieille writes > : > >On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 12:16:37AM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >[...] > >> > >> Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation > >> to arrive as it gets written. > > Not long ago I manually cut down a -current to run in 32MB but I > admit that there were a fair bit of stuff missing :-) I managed to put a really minimal version + a part of XFree86 in 16MB myself. See here: http://www.thinbsd.org/doc.html This is a project to create small windows terminals with VIA mini-ITX machines and a FreeBSD ramdisk. It is not really ready for the masses yet, though... > My main goal with this is to give us a common ground to work from, > and avoid us all reinventing the deep plate and the hot water over > and over again. This is great, I'm sure to put FreeBSD into more and more weird exotic things now :) -- Francois Tigeot From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 10 05:00:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 601CE16A4CE; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from transport.cksoft.de (transport.cksoft.de [62.111.66.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D015643D41; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:00:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from transport.cksoft.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by transport.cksoft.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F2E21FFDC1; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:00:09 +0100 (CET) Received: by transport.cksoft.de (Postfix, from userid 66) id 423D51FF90C; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:00:07 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.int.zabbadoz.net (Postfix, from userid 1060) id 99537154FC; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:00:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.int.zabbadoz.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BDAB154F9; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:00:03 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:00:03 +0000 (UTC) From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" X-X-Sender: bz@e0-0.zab2.int.zabbadoz.net To: Poul-Henning Kamp In-Reply-To: <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: References: <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS cksoft-s20020300-20031204bz on transport.cksoft.de cc: FreeBSD current mailing list cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:00:11 -0000 On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20040310113611.GA1241@abigail.blackend.org>, Marc Fonvieille writes > : > >On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 12:16:37AM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >[...] > >> > >> Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation > >> to arrive as it gets written. > >> > > > >It'd be great to be able to choose, via a parameter, between a 3 slices > >version and a 2 slices one. Or one should trim down the installed > >images, a 128MB CF card should be the minimal media size. > >Well I know 256MB will be less expensive in future, and since I'm still > >using 8MB cards on the 4501, I must be an outdated guy :)) > > Not long ago I manually cut down a -current to run in 32MB but I > admit that there were a fair bit of stuff missing :-) I once had used your script to write my own and I am currently building s.th. that is around 23MB uncompressed or 8.5MB as a gzipped md_image and I have not looked at the building process for some time so I suspect it could be further cut down if I'd take the time. The above also still inlcudes some binaries or whole ports like dhcprelay, host, nsupdate, racoon and postfix. > My main goal with this is to give us a common ground to work from, > and avoid us all reinventing the deep plate and the hot water over > and over again. I will definitively have a look at it :-) -- Bjoern A. Zeeb bzeeb at Zabbadoz dot NeT 56 69 73 69 74 http://www.zabbadoz.net/ From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 10 05:40:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F5816A4CF for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:40:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub2.midco.net (mailhub2.midco.net [24.220.0.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFFE043D41 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:40:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pmes@bis.midco.net) Received: (qmail 9114 invoked by uid 0); 10 Mar 2004 14:40:54 -0000 Received: from host-195-219-220-24.midco.net (HELO bis.midco.net) ([24.220.219.195]) (envelope-sender ) by lvs-pop.midco.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Mar 2004 14:40:54 -0000 Message-ID: <404F1AE5.90105@bis.midco.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:40:53 -0600 From: Peter Schultz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7a) Gecko/20040308 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp References: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:40:55 -0000 Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > This patch contains my "nanobsd" prototype which I have been mumbling > about. > Is there hardware available for Joe Consumer to use this with? Thanks, Pete... From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 10 05:43:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B003B16A4CE; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:43:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF08643D48; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:43:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2ADh1vv041891; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:43:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Peter Schultz From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:40:53 CST." <404F1AE5.90105@bis.midco.net> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:43:01 +0100 Message-ID: <41890.1078926181@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:43:07 -0000 In message <404F1AE5.90105@bis.midco.net>, Peter Schultz writes: >Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> This patch contains my "nanobsd" prototype which I have been mumbling >> about. >> > >Is there hardware available for Joe Consumer to use this with? www.soekris.com is by best suggestion. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 10 05:48:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C1BF16A4CE; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:48:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from arginine.spc.org (arginine.spc.org [195.206.69.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A93C43D2F; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:48:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bms@spc.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arginine.spc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A2EB6542C; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:48:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from arginine.spc.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (arginine.spc.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 32085-04; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:48:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from saboteur.dek.spc.org (82-147-17-88.dsl.uk.rapidplay.com [82.147.17.88]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by arginine.spc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D083665444; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:48:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: by saboteur.dek.spc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0C2F318; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:48:05 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:48:04 +0000 From: Bruce M Simpson To: Peter Schultz Message-ID: <20040310134804.GF11066@saboteur.dek.spc.org> References: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> <404F1AE5.90105@bis.midco.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <404F1AE5.90105@bis.midco.net> cc: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:48:10 -0000 On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 07:40:53AM -0600, Peter Schultz wrote: > Is there hardware available for Joe Consumer to use this with? There are a few MiniITX based boards out there with onboard CF slots, too. I keep a SanDisk ImageMate around for installing to CF before slotting it into the target. BMS From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 10 06:52:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D7D16A4CE; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:52:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from guldan.demon.nl (cust.13.38.adsl.cistron.nl [62.216.13.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE47743D54; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:52:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@guldan.demon.nl) Received: from bombur.guldan.demon.nl ([192.168.201.3] helo=localhost) by guldan.demon.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1B1538-000B8W-IM; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:51:10 +0100 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:51:33 +0100 From: Robert Blacquiere To: current@freebsd.org, small@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040310145133.GU52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl> References: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Disclaimer: running FreeBSD X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:52:04 -0000 Just a thought, i did not read the full patch, what "base" apps/progs are installed? If i look at something like opensoekris, flashbsd or picobsd it looks in a file which apps are wanted, and then searches the libs to go with it. I don't know yet how big this nanobsd will be. But if we use something like or picobsd like crunch conf to select the programms we need, and only install these. I think this would be a nice to have feature. Just have some default with all the important apps and let a user select more? Robert - my 2 euro cents -- Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? FreeBSD: Are you guys coming or what? OpenBSD: Hey guys you left some holes out there! From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 10 07:13:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E50516A4FF; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:13:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from transport.cksoft.de (transport.cksoft.de [62.111.66.27]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1C843D45; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:13:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from transport.cksoft.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by transport.cksoft.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 874F11FFDC1; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:13:02 +0100 (CET) Received: by transport.cksoft.de (Postfix, from userid 66) id A59C71FF90C; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:13:00 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.int.zabbadoz.net (Postfix, from userid 1060) id 4B7A9154F9; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:12:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.int.zabbadoz.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DC2E1538C; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:12:39 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:12:38 +0000 (UTC) From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" X-X-Sender: bz@e0-0.zab2.int.zabbadoz.net To: Poul-Henning Kamp In-Reply-To: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: References: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS cksoft-s20020300-20031204bz on transport.cksoft.de cc: FreeBSD current mailing list cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:13:07 -0000 On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > --- /dev/null Wed Mar 10 00:02:50 2004 > +++ make.conf Tue Mar 9 22:50:34 2004 > @@ -0,0 +1,31 @@ ... > +#NO_YP_LIBC=yes I am currently working on this. -- Bjoern A. Zeeb bzeeb at Zabbadoz dot NeT 56 69 73 69 74 http://www.zabbadoz.net/ From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 10 10:43:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6900016A4CE; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:43:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA42243D41; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:43:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i2AIhWE8006100; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:43:33 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <404F61D3.8080807@centtech.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:43:31 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040205 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp References: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:43:34 -0000 Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > This patch contains my "nanobsd" prototype which I have been mumbling > about. [..snip..] > > Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation > to arrive as it gets written. Mine dies during the make. Here's the last bits of _.bw.tmp: -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> stage 2.3: build tools -------------------------------------------------------------- ===> bin/csh ===> bin/sh ===> gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_tools make: don't know how to make /usr/obj/usr/src/i386/usr/include/sys/param.h. Stop *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error cvsup'ed again and rebuilding world now - maybe I was in between your updates last time. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Sr. Systems Administrator Centaur Technology Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 10 10:49:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01B6216A4CE; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 504DB43D41; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:49:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2AIn61q043985; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:49:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Eric Anderson From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:43:31 CST." <404F61D3.8080807@centtech.com> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:49:06 +0100 Message-ID: <43984.1078944546@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:49:13 -0000 In message <404F61D3.8080807@centtech.com>, Eric Anderson writes: >Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >cvsup'ed again and rebuilding world now - maybe I was in between your >updates last time. I saw that myself, but couldn't reproduce it after I blew all of /usr/obj away. This could be an artefact of the use of a different make.conf file than your previous buildworld used. (and if so, should be tracked down and fixed in the relevant Makefile, but wash your dog first.) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 05:32:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E360116A4CE; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:32:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D73A43D2F; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:32:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2BDWIs1050765; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:32:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Robert Blacquiere From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:51:33 +0100." <20040310145133.GU52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:32:18 +0100 Message-ID: <50764.1079011938@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:32:22 -0000 In message <20040310145133.GU52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl>, Robert Blacquiere w rites: > >Just a thought, i did not read the full patch, what "base" >apps/progs are installed? If i look at something like opensoekris, >flashbsd or picobsd it looks in a file which apps are wanted, and >then searches the libs to go with it. I don't know yet how big this >nanobsd will be. But if we use something like or picobsd like crunch >conf to select the programms we need, and only install these. nanobsd contains nothing but a cut down FreeBSD distribution, anything you want in addition to that you must put on there yourself. The makefile contains a target called Customize where you can do that sort of stuff. The point of nanobsd is simply to create a tool for putting FreeBSD on small media for embedded computers. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 11:37:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFD3016A4CE; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:37:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from guldan.demon.nl (cust.13.38.adsl.cistron.nl [62.216.13.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF3243D41; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:37:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@guldan.demon.nl) Received: from bombur.guldan.demon.nl ([192.168.201.3] helo=localhost) by guldan.demon.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1B1Vyz-000CNU-Hy; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:36:41 +0100 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:37:07 +0100 From: Robert Blacquiere To: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-ID: <20040311193707.GX52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl> References: <20040310145133.GU52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl> <50764.1079011938@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <50764.1079011938@critter.freebsd.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Disclaimer: running FreeBSD X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:37:38 -0000 On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 02:32:18PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20040310145133.GU52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl>, Robert Blacquiere w > rites: > > > >Just a thought, i did not read the full patch, what "base" > >apps/progs are installed? If i look at something like opensoekris, > >flashbsd or picobsd it looks in a file which apps are wanted, and > >then searches the libs to go with it. I don't know yet how big this > >nanobsd will be. But if we use something like or picobsd like crunch > >conf to select the programms we need, and only install these. > > nanobsd contains nothing but a cut down FreeBSD distribution, anything > you want in addition to that you must put on there yourself. > > The makefile contains a target called Customize where you can do that > sort of stuff. > > The point of nanobsd is simply to create a tool for putting FreeBSD > on small media for embedded computers. Yes i know, but i was thinking of shrinking it more. Just install what is needed. things like dd, pax, mount_(obscurefs and unneededfs) etc just to name a few which i don't need on my machine 32 mb flash card. But i know it should be configurable enough and have a base to work from. Is there a list of progs which get installed with libs etc? I have seen the make.conf with mostly everything NO_${SOMETHING}=yes But i think this methode is reverse of what i want. I make a list of programs i need sh, ifconfig, wicontrol, mount etc for my "appliance". And have a script which lists all libs needed. This way i think i have trimmed down FreeBSD to a bare minimum for my system. So now it's image fits on a 32 mb flash card (with room to spare). Robert -- Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? FreeBSD: Are you guys coming or what? OpenBSD: Hey guys you left some holes out there! From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 11:53:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6632E16A4CE; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DBE743D2F; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:53:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2BJdCLA052730; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:39:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Robert Blacquiere From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:37:07 +0100." <20040311193707.GX52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:39:12 +0100 Message-ID: <52729.1079033952@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:53:05 -0000 In message <20040311193707.GX52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl>, Robert Blacquiere w rites: >On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 02:32:18PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> In message <20040310145133.GU52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl>, Robert Blacquiere w >> rites: >> > >> >Just a thought, i did not read the full patch, what "base" >> >apps/progs are installed? If i look at something like opensoekris, >> >flashbsd or picobsd it looks in a file which apps are wanted, and >> >then searches the libs to go with it. I don't know yet how big this >> >nanobsd will be. But if we use something like or picobsd like crunch >> >conf to select the programms we need, and only install these. >> >> nanobsd contains nothing but a cut down FreeBSD distribution, anything >> you want in addition to that you must put on there yourself. >> >> The makefile contains a target called Customize where you can do that >> sort of stuff. >> >> The point of nanobsd is simply to create a tool for putting FreeBSD >> on small media for embedded computers. > >Yes i know, but i was thinking of shrinking it more. Just install what is >needed. things like dd, pax, mount_(obscurefs and unneededfs) etc just to >name a few which i don't need on my machine 32 mb flash card. But i know >it should be configurable enough and have a base to work from. >Is there a list of progs which get installed with libs etc? > >I have seen the make.conf with mostly everything NO_${SOMETHING}=yes >But i think this methode is reverse of what i want. I make a list of >programs i need sh, ifconfig, wicontrol, mount etc for my "appliance". >And have a script which lists all libs needed. This way i think i have >trimmed down FreeBSD to a bare minimum for my system. I want nanobsd to use the normal build/installworld targets, but feel free to prune your system in the Customize target. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 12:04:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D181816A4CE; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:04:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B92343D41; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:04:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from interjet.elischer.org ([24.7.73.28]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2004031120035801100lgl3ne>; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:03:59 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA93943; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:03:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:03:56 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Poul-Henning Kamp In-Reply-To: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:04:02 -0000 On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > [...] > mkdir /usr/src/nanobsd [...] > > Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation > to arrive as it gets written. wouldn't it make sense to put nanoBSD in release alongside picoBSD? (that still leaves us microBSD and milliBSD :-) From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 12:11:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F13916A4CE; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:11:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8AB843D2F; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:11:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2BKAsD3053046; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:10:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Julian Elischer From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:03:56 PST." Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:10:54 +0100 Message-ID: <53045.1079035854@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:11:06 -0000 In message , Ju lian Elischer writes: > > >On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> >[...] >> mkdir /usr/src/nanobsd >[...] >> >> Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation >> to arrive as it gets written. > >wouldn't it make sense to put nanoBSD in release alongside picoBSD? >(that still leaves us microBSD and milliBSD :-) As I understand it picoBSD has never managed the 4.x->5.x transition and is scheduled to be removed if nobody starts paying attention to it soon. re@/scottl@ asked me to not put nanobsd in src/release as they would prefer it be kept for the "official release" stuff only, and to me src/tools actually makes a lot more sense after all. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 12:20:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F47F16A4CE; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:20:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9AA343D3F; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:20:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from interjet.elischer.org ([24.7.73.28]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2004031120200301600ln5kge>; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:20:03 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA94169; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:19:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:19:58 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Poul-Henning Kamp In-Reply-To: <53045.1079035854@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:20:05 -0000 On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message , Ju > lian Elischer writes: > > > > > >On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > >> > >[...] > >> mkdir /usr/src/nanobsd > >[...] > >> > >> Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation > >> to arrive as it gets written. > > > >wouldn't it make sense to put nanoBSD in release alongside picoBSD? > >(that still leaves us microBSD and milliBSD :-) > > As I understand it picoBSD has never managed the 4.x->5.x transition > and is scheduled to be removed if nobody starts paying attention > to it soon. I may be looking at it soon as it still produces a smaller system than 'nanoBSD' and works well for systems with old 8MB flash. I've been using the 4.x version and may need a 5.x version 'soon'. > > re@/scottl@ asked me to not put nanobsd in src/release as they would > prefer it be kept for the "official release" stuff only, and to > me src/tools actually makes a lot more sense after all. hmmm then I guess picoBSD could probably move too. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 12:37:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE6A16A4D1 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:37:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail6.speakeasy.net (mail6.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E393F43D41 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:37:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 19961 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2004 20:37:11 -0000 Received: from dsl027-160-063.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) encrypted SMTP for ; 11 Mar 2004 20:37:11 -0000 Received: from 10.50.40.205 (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2BKb128037661; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:37:02 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) From: John Baldwin To: "Poul-Henning Kamp" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:38:35 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6 References: <53045.1079035854@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: <53045.1079035854@critter.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403111535.25476.jhb@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on server.baldwin.cx cc: small@freebsd.org cc: Julian Elischer cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:37:20 -0000 On Thursday 11 March 2004 03:10 pm, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message > , Ju > > lian Elischer writes: > >On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > > >[...] > > > >> mkdir /usr/src/nanobsd > > > >[...] > > > >> Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation > >> to arrive as it gets written. > > > >wouldn't it make sense to put nanoBSD in release alongside picoBSD? > >(that still leaves us microBSD and milliBSD :-) > > As I understand it picoBSD has never managed the 4.x->5.x transition > and is scheduled to be removed if nobody starts paying attention > to it soon. > > re@/scottl@ asked me to not put nanobsd in src/release as they would > prefer it be kept for the "official release" stuff only, and to > me src/tools actually makes a lot more sense after all. I've actually wanted to use src/release/freebsd/ for the "official" FreeBSD release bits so that src/release/fooBSD could be used for the "foo" dist. picoBSD really should move more to a nano type model if it stays around anyways. Using splitfs should make it much easier to keep picoBSD around actually, and to do what some people have long wanted: have the release floppies actually be a 'release' picoBSD dist. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 12:44:46 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE63F16A4CE for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk (tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.167]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F39C43D46 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:44:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk) Received: from scan3.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.166] helo=localhost) by tx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1B1X2r-0006lg-OB for small@freebsd.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:44:45 +0000 Received: from rx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.165]) by localhost (scan3.oucs.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.166]) (amavisd-new, port 25) with ESMTP id 25769-06 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:44:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.161.253]) by rx3.oucs.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1B1X2r-0006ld-An for small@freebsd.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:44:45 +0000 Received: (qmail 23722 invoked by uid 1004); 11 Mar 2004 20:44:45 -0000 Received: from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk by gateway by uid 71 with qmail-scanner-1.20 (clamscan: 0.67. sweep: 2.18/3.79. Clear:RC:1(163.1.161.131):. Processed in 0.04191 secs); 11 Mar 2004 20:44:45 -0000 Received: from dhcp1131.wadham.ox.ac.uk (HELO piii600.wadham.ox.ac.uk) (163.1.161.131) by gateway.wadham.ox.ac.uk with SMTP; 11 Mar 2004 20:44:45 -0000 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.1.20040311204212.040a8230@imap.sfu.ca> X-Sender: cperciva@imap.sfu.ca (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:44:28 +0000 To: Julian Elischer From: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: References: <53045.1079035854@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed cc: small@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:44:47 -0000 At 20:19 11/03/2004, Julian Elischer wrote: >On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > As I understand it picoBSD has never managed the 4.x->5.x transition > > and is scheduled to be removed if nobody starts paying attention > > to it soon. > >I may be looking at it soon as it still produces a smaller system than >'nanoBSD' and works well for systems with old 8MB flash. Just a general reminder about building small images: NetBSD's makefs (available as ports/sysutils/makefs) creates disk images a few % smaller than those built via memory disks. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 12:45:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7E816A4CE; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:45:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (xorpc.icir.org [192.150.187.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F9A43D31; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:45:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo@icir.org) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2BKjN9Q095912; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:45:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo@xorpc.icir.org) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.3/Submit) id i2BKjN3W095911; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:45:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:45:23 -0800 From: Luigi Rizzo To: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-ID: <20040311124523.A95777@xorpc.icir.org> References: <53045.1079035854@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <53045.1079035854@critter.freebsd.dk>; from phk@phk.freebsd.dk on Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 09:10:54PM +0100 cc: small@freebsd.org cc: Julian Elischer cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:45:26 -0000 On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 09:10:54PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message , Ju > lian Elischer writes: > > > > > >On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > >> > >[...] > >> mkdir /usr/src/nanobsd > >[...] > >> > >> Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation > >> to arrive as it gets written. > > > >wouldn't it make sense to put nanoBSD in release alongside picoBSD? > >(that still leaves us microBSD and milliBSD :-) > > As I understand it picoBSD has never managed the 4.x->5.x transition what do you mean ? it builds happily last time i tried (sometime in january) except for the usual bloat issues that the boot floppies have too. Now i agree that having picobsd in src/picobsd or src/tools or even ports/sys/* would be a better place given that there are absolutely no things to patch in the base tree except for the following minor patch to /usr/src/Makefile.inc1 which i believe is similar to the one you used for nanobsd cheers luigi > lcvs diff -u Makefile.inc1 Index: Makefile.inc1 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/Makefile.inc1,v retrieving revision 1.398 diff -u -r1.398 Makefile.inc1 --- Makefile.inc1 9 Dec 2003 00:42:44 -0000 1.398 +++ Makefile.inc1 6 Jan 2004 20:45:19 -0000 @@ -372,7 +372,10 @@ .if !defined(SUBDIR_OVERRIDE) WMAKE_TGTS+= _cross-tools .endif -WMAKE_TGTS+= _includes _libraries _depend everything +WMAKE_TGTS+= _includes _libraries +.if !defined(PICOBSD) +WMAKE_TGTS+= _depend everything +.endif buildworld: ${WMAKE_TGTS} From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 12:56:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB4216A4CE; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9370E43D39; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:56:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 1BE5C1472F; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:56:05 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:56:04 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Linimon X-X-Sender: linimon@pancho To: Luigi Rizzo In-Reply-To: <20040311124523.A95777@xorpc.icir.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: current@freebsd.org cc: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: small@freebsd.org cc: Julian Elischer Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:56:05 -0000 > Now i agree that having picobsd in src/picobsd or src/tools > or even ports/sys/* would be a better place Well, if both picobsd and nanobsd are going to exist in the base system, I'd rather see something like src//picobsd and src//nanobsd, to keep the src/ directory from becoming even more confusing. I've taken too many arrows in the back this week to even dream of suggesting a value for :-) mcl From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 13:05:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3895716A4DD; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:05:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (xorpc.icir.org [192.150.187.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 246EB43D1D; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:05:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo@icir.org) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2BL5m9Q096549; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:05:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo@xorpc.icir.org) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.3/Submit) id i2BL5mHo096548; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:05:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:05:48 -0800 From: Luigi Rizzo To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20040311130548.B95777@xorpc.icir.org> References: <53045.1079035854@critter.freebsd.dk> <6.0.1.1.1.20040311204212.040a8230@imap.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.1.20040311204212.040a8230@imap.sfu.ca>; from colin.percival@wadham.ox.ac.uk on Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 08:44:28PM +0000 cc: current@freebsd.org cc: Julian Elischer cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:05:50 -0000 On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 08:44:28PM +0000, Colin Percival wrote: > At 20:19 11/03/2004, Julian Elischer wrote: > >On Thu, 11 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > As I understand it picoBSD has never managed the 4.x->5.x transition > > > and is scheduled to be removed if nobody starts paying attention > > > to it soon. > > > >I may be looking at it soon as it still produces a smaller system than > >'nanoBSD' and works well for systems with old 8MB flash. > > Just a general reminder about building small images: NetBSD's makefs > (available as ports/sysutils/makefs) creates disk images a few % smaller > than those built via memory disks. this is actually a very interesting one because vnconfig/mdconfig was the last part of the picobsd that required root privileges. thanks for the pointer! luigi From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 16:59:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D8216A4CE; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:59:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (cain.gsoft.com.au [203.31.81.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75BE243D46; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from inchoate.gsoft.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2C0whQ9089934; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:28:47 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:28:43 +1030 User-Agent: KMail/1.6 References: <53045.1079035854@critter.freebsd.dk> <6.0.1.1.1.20040311204212.040a8230@imap.sfu.ca> In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.1.20040311204212.040a8230@imap.sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200403121128.43780.doconnor@gsoft.com.au> X-Spam-Score: -1.5 () CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.16 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) cc: current@freebsd.org cc: Julian Elischer cc: Colin Percival cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:59:04 -0000 On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:14, Colin Percival wrote: > >I may be looking at it soon as it still produces a smaller system than > >'nanoBSD' and works well for systems with old 8MB flash. > > Just a general reminder about building small images: NetBSD's makefs > (available as ports/sysutils/makefs) creates disk images a few % smaller > than those built via memory disks. It also doesn't need root privs which could be very useful for people wishing to be able to make releases without having to use root. -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 9A8C 569F 685A D928 5140 AE4B 319B 41F4 5D17 FDD5 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 17:36:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4D716A4CE; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:36:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from cruzio.com (dsl3-63-249-85-132.cruzio.com [63.249.85.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E959343D1F; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:36:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C3ZT6M000835; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:35:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: (from brucem@localhost) by mail.cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2C3ZSFR000834; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:35:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:35:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Bruce R. Montague" Message-Id: <200403120335.i2C3ZSFR000834@mail.cruzio.com> To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org cc: rizzo@icir.org cc: phk@phk.freebsd.dk cc: julian@elischer.org cc: jhb@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:36:52 -0000 Regarding the remarks: Poul-Henning Kamp: > As I understand it picoBSD has never managed the 4.x->5.x transition... Luigi Rizzo: > what do you mean ? it builds happily last time i tried (sometime > in january) except for the usual bloat issues that the boot > floppies have too. Up until the last few months I routinely built picobsd under 5.x, PicoBSD seemed to work fine under 5.x for me. Things seemed pretty indistinguishably from building it under 4.x. You have to use your own configurations, which for many (most?) interesting projects you have to do anyway. I'll have to test it with the latest -current as soon as I have a chance... What DOESN'T work -- in the sense of not fitting on a floppy -- are the old "reference configurations" other than "release/picobsd/bridge" (and even there you may need to remove ssh, or build the picobsd-ssh port first). (I think "router" may work as well, it is important because it does not use "init). The core problem is the images are just too big to fit on floppy because the underlying FreeBSD system has grown. There's been size growth everywhere. I think, didn't the last version of DHCP not even fit on a floppy? The MII NIC driver stuff alone made the drivers questionably large, IIRC... splitfs will likely make a lot of this moot. However, it is nice to have everything fit on a floppy, because then you can run a ancient floppy PC as a cheap firewall and just leave the flopy in and it will automatically reboot unattended on power failure. However, you can build a picobsd system of any size and pxeboot it, or heck, just copy it to your "/" and boot it. Nice if your "/" is a small flash device. The old reference configurations that don't work for version 5.x also don't work for versions of 4.x past FreeBSD 4.4. I believe it was 4.4 when most of the ref configs ran out of space to fit on floppy. The most likely use of the configurations currently are as examples of what works and doesn't in syntax of crunch files, "floppy.tree.exclude" files, and the like. Given current directions with respect to small-sensor nets, embedded mobile devices, and flash-based systems, picobsd is a capability that FreeBSD should definitely retain. This doesn't mean it's not a very specific tool. Something like NanoBSD is definitely what's needed for folks that want to run Java off of Compact Flash (I was talking to one such just today...) and otherwise use FreeBSD in full. PicoBSD is still a good way to get a functioning TCP/IP stack off a very small boot device. And I have used the ability to conveniently e-mail entire PicoBSD systems as bootable e-mail attachments to folks across the country to debug (hardware) under hardware ICE machines. I had some students play with PicoBSD a few months ago, playing with small firewall configurations building on floppies under 4.8(?). You could tell it was one of the most exciting things they'd done on FreeBSD. Also, the picobsd rc scripts are very small and easy to customize. Much easier for an EE-type embedded engineer to understand and get into than full FreeBSD. An interesting place for some grad-student types to start. Also (it's not so pronounced in this day and age of loadable modules), the picobsd development cycle, if you are not using floppies (netbooting or using flash) can be very fast compared to working with FreeBSD. Having both picobsd and nanobsd, visibly used at different points in the low-end compact flash space, provide a viable FreeBSD rationale when in the Linux Embedded world.... so it would be nice if they were somehow rooted in the same place in src. BTW, I have consistently run into confusion about PicoBSD (and already about nanobsd) being an alternate "Distribution". To emphasize that they are alternate system build procedures and not distributions, I'd like to suggest revising an old name, and perhaps calling them "sysgen tools", or "sysgen scripts". But that's just one opinion and term, maybe something else would fit better. - bruce From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 11 23:27:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16A1316A4CE for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:27:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4B6243D31 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:27:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.zer0.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B863239AE4; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:27:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.zer0.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klapaucius.zer0.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02751-03; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:27:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (66-91-236-204.san.rr.com [66.91.236.204]) by mail1.zer0.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31BD6239AE3; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:27:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from softweyr.com (zaphod [204.68.178.5]) (authenticated bits=0) by obie.softweyr.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2C7RNYp006439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:27:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <4051665A.8060307@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:27:22 -0800 From: Wes Peters User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20040218 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.39 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at zer0.org cc: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:27:30 -0000 Julian Elischer wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > [...] > >> mkdir /usr/src/nanobsd > > [...] > >>Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation >>to arrive as it gets written. > > > wouldn't it make sense to put nanoBSD in release alongside picoBSD? > (that still leaves us microBSD and milliBSD :-) And femtobsd for the single floppy disk image. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 00:12:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B39916A4CE; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gid.co.uk [194.32.164.225]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91E3743D53; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:12:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.11.7/8.11.6) id i2C8BvQ62529; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:11:57 GMT (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.2.20040312080552.0370bec0@gid.co.uk> X-Sender: rbmail@gid.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:11:54 +0000 To: "Poul-Henning Kamp" , Julian Elischer From: Bob Bishop In-Reply-To: <53045.1079035854@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <53045.1079035854@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:12:57 -0000 Hi, At 20:10 11/03/2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >As I understand it picoBSD has never managed the 4.x->5.x transition >and is scheduled to be removed if nobody starts paying attention >to it soon. Um, well it certainly works and we'd be unhappy if it disappeared because it's running all our routers perfectly fine: # sysctl -n kern.version FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT #3: Tue Apr 8 15:04:04 BST 2003 rb@spambox2.gid.co.uk:/usr/home/rb/build_dir-agate/PICOBSD-agate -- Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 989 4254 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 01:47:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE1316A4D6; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:47:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF97443D3F; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:47:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C9lZkk018511; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:47:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:43:58 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20040311.154358.112813557.imp@bsdimp.com> To: phk@phk.freebsd.dk From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <20040310113611.GA1241@abigail.blackend.org> <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: small@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:47:40 -0000 In message: <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes: : Not long ago I manually cut down a -current to run in 32MB but I : admit that there were a fair bit of stuff missing :-) FreeBSD 4.5 can be cut down to about 8MB or so, but 5 likely can't go below about 12-15MB without a lot of pain. Warner From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 01:47:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E558616A4F9; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC6743D31; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2C9lZkl018511; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:47:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:04:12 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20040311.160412.47000752.imp@bsdimp.com> To: phk@phk.freebsd.dk From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <52729.1079033952@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <20040311193707.GX52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl> <52729.1079033952@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd@guldan.demon.nl cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:47:44 -0000 In message: <52729.1079033952@critter.freebsd.dk> "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes: : I want nanobsd to use the normal build/installworld targets, but feel : free to prune your system in the Customize target. Maybe it is time to have a generic way to include/exclude directories from installworld, but not buildworld. This lack is one of the main reasons that I have a custom install script rather than using installworld for the build environment we have at work. Warner From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 03:52:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CAB516A4CE; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (numeri.campus.luth.se [130.240.197.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B84E343D39; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:52:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i2CBq3T9001846; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:52:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Received: (from k@localhost) by numeri.campus.luth.se (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2CBq3G7001845; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:52:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from k) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:52:02 +0100 From: Johan Karlsson To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-ID: <20040312115202.GA98578@numeri.campus.luth.se> References: <20040311193707.GX52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl> <52729.1079033952@critter.freebsd.dk> <20040311.160412.47000752.imp@bsdimp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040311.160412.47000752.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i cc: freebsd@guldan.demon.nl cc: phk@phk.freebsd.dk cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:52:14 -0000 On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 16:04 (-0700) +0000, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <52729.1079033952@critter.freebsd.dk> > "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes: > : I want nanobsd to use the normal build/installworld targets, but feel > : free to prune your system in the Customize target. > > Maybe it is time to have a generic way to include/exclude directories > from installworld, but not buildworld. We kind of have this already # make buildworld # make installworld SUBDIR_OVERRIDE='dirs to include' I guess it would be trivial to add a new variable SUBDIR_OVERRIDE_INSTALL that only affects the installworld target if you need to put in make.conf. /Johan K > This lack is one of the main > reasons that I have a custom install script rather than using > installworld for the build environment we have at work. > > Warner > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Johan Karlsson mailto:johan@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 03:55:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5617116A4CE; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:55:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8585E43D2D; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:55:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2CBsrGG059082; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:54:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: Johan Karlsson From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:52:02 +0100." <20040312115202.GA98578@numeri.campus.luth.se> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:54:53 +0100 Message-ID: <59081.1079092493@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: freebsd@guldan.demon.nl cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:55:10 -0000 In message <20040312115202.GA98578@numeri.campus.luth.se>, Johan Karlsson write s: >On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 16:04 (-0700) +0000, M. Warner Losh wrote: >> In message: <52729.1079033952@critter.freebsd.dk> >> "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes: >> : I want nanobsd to use the normal build/installworld targets, but feel >> : free to prune your system in the Customize target. >> >> Maybe it is time to have a generic way to include/exclude directories >> from installworld, but not buildworld. > >We kind of have this already > ># make buildworld ># make installworld SUBDIR_OVERRIDE='dirs to include' > >I guess it would be trivial to add a new variable >SUBDIR_OVERRIDE_INSTALL that only affects the installworld >target if you need to put in make.conf. While this may technically be a possibility, it is a lousy userinterface to the FreeBSD hacker who's trying to configure an embedded system. I think the NO_FOO principle of functional exclusion is far more user friendly. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 07:54:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5090616A4CE; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:54:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB90D43D2D; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:54:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CFsQkj023490; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:54:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:54:29 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20040312.085429.14977435.imp@bsdimp.com> To: phk@phk.freebsd.dk From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <59081.1079092493@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <20040312115202.GA98578@numeri.campus.luth.se> <59081.1079092493@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd@guldan.demon.nl cc: current@freebsd.org cc: johan@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:54:30 -0000 In message: <59081.1079092493@critter.freebsd.dk> "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes: : In message <20040312115202.GA98578@numeri.campus.luth.se>, Johan Karlsson write : s: : >On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 16:04 (-0700) +0000, M. Warner Losh wrote: : >> In message: <52729.1079033952@critter.freebsd.dk> : >> "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes: : >> : I want nanobsd to use the normal build/installworld targets, but feel : >> : free to prune your system in the Customize target. : >> : >> Maybe it is time to have a generic way to include/exclude directories : >> from installworld, but not buildworld. : > : >We kind of have this already : > : ># make buildworld : ># make installworld SUBDIR_OVERRIDE='dirs to include' : > : >I guess it would be trivial to add a new variable : >SUBDIR_OVERRIDE_INSTALL that only affects the installworld : >target if you need to put in make.conf. : : While this may technically be a possibility, it is a lousy userinterface : to the FreeBSD hacker who's trying to configure an embedded system. : : I think the NO_FOO principle of functional exclusion is far more : user friendly. It is far too klunky, and not nearly granular enough. Both interfaces (the SUBDIR_OVERRIDE_INSTALL and NO_FOO). Warner From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 08:44:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B632216A526 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:44:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from pimout1-ext.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A96A43D49 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:44:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from elischer.org (adsl-216-100-132-94.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [216.100.132.94])i2CGiiHC086308; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:44:45 -0500 Message-ID: <4051E8B8.3000505@elischer.org> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:43:36 -0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030524 X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Warner Losh" References: <20040310113611.GA1241@abigail.blackend.org> <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> <20040311.154358.112813557.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20040311.154358.112813557.imp@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: phk@phk.freebsd.dk cc: small@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:44:48 -0000 M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> > "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes: > : Not long ago I manually cut down a -current to run in 32MB but I > : admit that there were a fair bit of stuff missing :-) > > FreeBSD 4.5 can be cut down to about 8MB or so, but 5 likely can't go > below about 12-15MB without a lot of pain. I have a 4.9 picobsd vpn server in 8MB.. it's all ok until you need ssh :-/ (I use the picobsd-ssh port but it's still VERY tight) -- +------------------------------------+ ______ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / hard at work in | / \ julian@elischer.org +------>x USA \ a very strange | ( OZ ) \___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/ presently in San Francisco \_/ \\ v From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 09:09:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 188EB16A4CE for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:09:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E13D543D5E for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:09:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (IDENT:brdavis@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i2CH9ZaN032564; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:09:35 -0800 Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.12.10/8.12.3/Submit) id i2CH9Y6K032563; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:09:34 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:09:34 -0800 From: Brooks Davis To: Wes Peters Message-ID: <20040312170931.GC7661@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <4051665A.8060307@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+xNpyl7Qekk2NvDX" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4051665A.8060307@softweyr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) on odin.ac.hmc.edu cc: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Julian Elischer cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:09:40 -0000 --+xNpyl7Qekk2NvDX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 11:27:22PM -0800, Wes Peters wrote: > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > >On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > > >[...]=20 > > > >> mkdir /usr/src/nanobsd > > > >[...] > > > >>Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation > >>to arrive as it gets written. > > > > > >wouldn't it make sense to put nanoBSD in release alongside picoBSD? > >(that still leaves us microBSD and milliBSD :-) >=20 > And femtobsd for the single floppy disk image. Followed by attobsd for those who think init(1) is bloatware. -- Brooks --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --+xNpyl7Qekk2NvDX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAUe7KXY6L6fI4GtQRAlKQAJ0RxNuS3+Au0VEUNe6wuPWmQh1yxwCeJVog ZV6ivaqsFjtsuGkT9qbqajs= =f8ds -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+xNpyl7Qekk2NvDX-- From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 09:15:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 694CF16A4CF for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:15:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from search.sparks.net (search.sparks.net [207.5.180.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1761643D48 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:15:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmiller@miningworks.com) Received: by search.sparks.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 7D2A6AA1E; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:15:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by search.sparks.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A937A90D; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:15:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:15:27 -0500 (EST) From: David Miller X-Sender: dmiller@search.sparks.net To: Brooks Davis In-Reply-To: <20040312170931.GC7661@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Wes Peters cc: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Julian Elischer cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:15:28 -0000 On Fri, 12 Mar 2004, Brooks Davis wrote: > On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 11:27:22PM -0800, Wes Peters wrote: > > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > > >On Wed, 10 Mar 2004, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > > >>Feedback of all sorts most welcome! And more documentation > > >>to arrive as it gets written. > > > > > > > > >wouldn't it make sense to put nanoBSD in release alongside picoBSD? > > >(that still leaves us microBSD and milliBSD :-) > > > > And femtobsd for the single floppy disk image. > > Followed by attobsd for those who think init(1) is bloatware. Lets not forget minibsd. Very functional for those who'd rather spend another ten bucks for a bigger flash card and have a larger subset of useful tools than spend many hours trying to save a few K here and there. --- David From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 09:47:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F60B16A4CE; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.bitblocks.com (bitblocks.com [209.204.185.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B0543D3F; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:47:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gate.bitblocks.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CHlXHA080622; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:47:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Message-Id: <200403121747.i2CHlXHA080622@gate.bitblocks.com> To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:35:28 PST." <200403120335.i2C3ZSFR000834@mail.cruzio.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:47:33 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:47:34 -0000 You guys may be interested in this... http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/36148.html From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 10:37:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D7516A4CE; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:37:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (xorpc.icir.org [192.150.187.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1AF43D48; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:37:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo@icir.org) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2CIbT9Q064719; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:37:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo@xorpc.icir.org) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.9p1/8.12.3/Submit) id i2CIbSCU064718; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:37:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:37:28 -0800 From: Luigi Rizzo To: Bakul Shah Message-ID: <20040312103728.A64666@xorpc.icir.org> References: <200403120335.i2C3ZSFR000834@mail.cruzio.com> <200403121747.i2CHlXHA080622@gate.bitblocks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <200403121747.i2CHlXHA080622@gate.bitblocks.com>; from bakul@bitblocks.com on Fri, Mar 12, 2004 at 09:47:33AM -0800 cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:37:30 -0000 On Fri, Mar 12, 2004 at 09:47:33AM -0800, Bakul Shah wrote: > You guys may be interested in this... > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/36148.html as i commented on another forum, to bad this is check-in luggage when you fly... I can hardly think of a more stupid idea! cheers luigi From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 10:45:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6836016A4CE; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:45:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.bitblocks.com (bitblocks.com [209.204.185.216]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F26843D4C; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:45:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Received: from bitblocks.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gate.bitblocks.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2CIjMHA081135; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:45:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bakul@bitblocks.com) Message-Id: <200403121845.i2CIjMHA081135@gate.bitblocks.com> To: Luigi Rizzo In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:37:28 PST." <20040312103728.A64666@xorpc.icir.org> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:45:22 -0800 From: Bakul Shah cc: Bakul Shah cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:45:23 -0000 > > You guys may be interested in this... > > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/36148.html > > as i commented on another forum, to bad this is > check-in luggage when you fly... Well, this can be may be useful where you have a lot of diskless machines that need occasional reboot like in a test lab. Though I agree it is dumb (but cute!) > I can hardly think of a more stupid idea! How about a swiss army knife cellphone? (Ring... Ring... Hello? Ouch! Ouch!! Ouch!!!) Stupidity has no upper bound. From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 11:03:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC3F916A4CE; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:03:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92FC143D2F; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:03:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from elischer.org (adsl-216-100-132-94.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [216.100.132.94])i2CJ3kk3136298; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:03:46 -0500 Message-ID: <4052094D.6060808@elischer.org> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:02:37 -0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030524 X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bakul Shah References: <200403121747.i2CHlXHA080622@gate.bitblocks.com> In-Reply-To: <200403121747.i2CHlXHA080622@gate.bitblocks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:03:50 -0000 Bakul Shah wrote: > You guys may be interested in this... > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/36148.html but will the bios boot from /dev/swissarmyknife? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- +------------------------------------+ ______ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / hard at work in | / \ julian@elischer.org +------>x USA \ a very strange | ( OZ ) \___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/ presently in San Francisco \_/ \\ v From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 12:49:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B5216A4CE; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:49:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (adsl-20-121.swiftdsl.com.au [218.214.20.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C14343D2D; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:49:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (localhost.cimlogic.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by cimlogic.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i2CKndVN033107; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:49:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id i2CKna3F033106; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:49:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:49:34 +1100 From: John Birrell To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-ID: <20040313074934.Z234@freebsd3.cimlogic.com.au> References: <20040310113611.GA1241@abigail.blackend.org> <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> <20040311.154358.112813557.imp@bsdimp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040311.154358.112813557.imp@bsdimp.com>; from imp@bsdimp.com on Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 03:43:58PM -0700 cc: phk@phk.freebsd.dk cc: small@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:49:58 -0000 On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 03:43:58PM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <40928.1078919852@critter.freebsd.dk> > "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes: > : Not long ago I manually cut down a -current to run in 32MB but I > : admit that there were a fair bit of stuff missing :-) > > FreeBSD 4.5 can be cut down to about 8MB or so, but 5 likely can't go > below about 12-15MB without a lot of pain. Just a note for the benefit of others interested in this topic... Both 4.X and 5 can be cut down more than that for highly embedded systems which aren't intended to offer Unix functionality (like sh, login, etc) and are dedicated to some task. I have systems that fit in 1MB of flash. These contain only a kernel and a (replacement program for) init(8). The kernel config file for these is typically less than 10 lines long. I guess that qualifies as "more than a fair bit of stuff missing". Like most of it. 8-) -- John Birrell From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 12 21:59:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12B9316A4CE; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:59:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0809743D45; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:59:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.zer0.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E77239AB1; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:59:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.zer0.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klapaucius.zer0.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 65130-05; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:59:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (66-91-236-204.san.rr.com [66.91.236.204]) by mail1.zer0.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74C5D239A0F; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:59:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from zaphod.softweyr.com (zaphod [204.68.178.5]) (authenticated bits=0) by obie.softweyr.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2D5xdYq011185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:59:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:59:39 -0800 From: Wes Peters To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-Id: <20040312215939.2d445d90.wes@softweyr.com> In-Reply-To: <20040311.160412.47000752.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <20040311193707.GX52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl> <52729.1079033952@critter.freebsd.dk> <20040311.160412.47000752.imp@bsdimp.com> Organization: Softweyr.com X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.39 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at zer0.org cc: freebsd@guldan.demon.nl cc: phk@phk.freebsd.dk cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:59:42 -0000 On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:04:12 -0700 (MST) "M. Warner Losh" alleged: > In message: <52729.1079033952@critter.freebsd.dk> > "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes: > : I want nanobsd to use the normal build/installworld targets, but feel > : free to prune your system in the Customize target. > > Maybe it is time to have a generic way to include/exclude directories > from installworld, but not buildworld. This lack is one of the main > reasons that I have a custom install script rather than using > installworld for the build environment we have at work. I have some cow-orkers who will be very interested in that, and may want to help as well. They're going to be heavily into build system issues about the time you get back here. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters wes@softweyr.com From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 13 05:50:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A190E16A4CE; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:50:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-out1.xs4all.nl (smtp-out1.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E6D843D41; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:50:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wkb@xs4all.nl) Received: from xs1.xs4all.nl (xs1.xs4all.nl [194.109.21.2]) by smtp-out1.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DDnvHf090976; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:49:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from xs1.xs4all.nl (wkb@localhost.xs4all.nl [127.0.0.1]) by xs1.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DDnvWI057994; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:49:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wkb@xs4all.nl) Received: (from wkb@localhost) by xs1.xs4all.nl (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id i2DDnlG7057949; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:49:47 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wkb) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:49:47 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte To: Wes Peters Message-ID: <20040313134947.GA57765@xs4all.nl> References: <20040311193707.GX52357@bombur.guldan.demon.nl> <52729.1079033952@critter.freebsd.dk> <20040311.160412.47000752.imp@bsdimp.com> <20040312215939.2d445d90.wes@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040312215939.2d445d90.wes@softweyr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.7-RELEASE-p21 X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org cc: freebsd@guldan.demon.nl cc: phk@phk.freebsd.dk cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG cc: small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:50:08 -0000 On Fri, Mar 12, 2004 at 09:59:39PM -0800, Wes Peters wrote: > On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:04:12 -0700 (MST) "M. Warner Losh" > alleged: > > > In message: <52729.1079033952@critter.freebsd.dk> > > "Poul-Henning Kamp" writes: > > : I want nanobsd to use the normal build/installworld targets, but feel > > : free to prune your system in the Customize target. > > > > Maybe it is time to have a generic way to include/exclude directories > > from installworld, but not buildworld. This lack is one of the main > > reasons that I have a custom install script rather than using > > installworld for the build environment we have at work. > > I have some cow-orkers who will be very interested in that, and may want to ^---- ?? ;-) From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 13 08:36:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85B8F16A4CE for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from cruzio.com (dsl3-63-249-85-132.cruzio.com [63.249.85.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBDFA43D1F for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:36:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2DIYnZ5000336 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:34:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: (from brucem@localhost) by mail.cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i2DIYmuF000335 for freebsd-small@freebsd.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:34:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brucem) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:34:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Bruce R. Montague" Message-Id: <200403131834.i2DIYmuF000335@mail.cruzio.com> To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:36:13 -0000 * Those putting cut-down FreeBSD on CF systems and the like might be interested in a brief summary of some available scripts/systems put together by Sean Lazar, "FreeBSD on Small Board Computers": http://www.thirdbreak.org/presentation/ Sean's with a group around here (www.thirdbreak.org/) working with 802.11 community wireless on the soekris systems. They seem to really like wifibsd: http://www.thirdbreak.org/presentation/html/slide_9.html http://www.wifibsd.org/ >From Sean's demo, the wifi script seems to act pretty much like the picobsd script, except it ends up building a device image that has a normal FreeBSD system, with user-selected files removed. A number of pre-exisitng "profiles" exist as starting points for your own CF, live CD, or pxeboot system. Sean analyzed 5 "sysgen scripts" as to resulting system size and functionality and as to what he called "additive" (it starts empty, you tell it what files/dirs to add) or "subtractive" (you start with everything and tell it what to take out). * Incidently, a "WifiBSD Status Report" appears in the FreeBSD "March-September 2003 Status Report": http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-mar-2003-sep-2003.html#WifiBSD-Status-Report http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-mar-2003-sep-2003.html They appear to be targetting the "out-of-box access point", but many of the issues are similar to nanobsd and similiar systems. Some of their files containing lists of working FreeBSD file subsets might be of interest to others... "Contact: Jon Disnard WifiBSD is a miniture version of FreeBSD for wireless applications. Originally for the Soekris Net45xx line of main-boards, but is now capable of being targeted to any hardware/architecture FreeBSD itself supports. Although not feature complete, WifiBSD is expected to be ready for 5.2-RELEASE. The design goal is to meet, or exceed, the functionality of commercial/consumer 802.11 wireless gear. Features that need attention (to name just a few) are: http interface, consol menu interface, and installation. Volunters are welcome." - bruce From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 13 15:35:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFF7E16A4CE; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:35:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from schlepper.zs64.net (schlepper.zs64.net [212.12.50.230]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A65DD43D2F; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:35:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (schlepper [212.12.50.230]) by schlepper.zs64.net (8.12.10/8.11.1) with ESMTP id i2DNYx7D089189; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:35:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) In-Reply-To: <404F1AE5.90105@bis.midco.net> References: <36090.1078874197@critter.freebsd.dk> <404F1AE5.90105@bis.midco.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v612) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0A94B5C8-7547-11D8-BCE9-000393496BE8@lassitu.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Stefan Bethke Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:34:58 +0100 To: Peter Schultz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.612) cc: current@freebsd.org cc: small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:35:07 -0000 Am 10.03.2004 um 14:40 schrieb Peter Schultz: > Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> This patch contains my "nanobsd" prototype which I have been mumbling >> about. > > Is there hardware available for Joe Consumer to use this with? A bit late to the discussion, but I have been a satisfied customer with these systems: I'm currently using one with a 2.5" HD as a router (and associated stuff), but I'm planning on moving it to a 256 MB CF as soon as I have my main home server online. -- Stefan Bethke Fon +49 170 346 0140 From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 13 19:16:51 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E68CD16A4CE for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:16:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.yazzy.org (mail.yazzy.org [217.8.140.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 183AA43D3F for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:16:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from masta@wifibsd.org) Received: from wifibsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.yazzy.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 112AF33C2B; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 04:16:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from c-24-0-61-35.client.comcast.net ([24.0.61.35]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user masta@wifibsd.org) by mail.yazzy.org with HTTP; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:16:40 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <62912.24.0.61.35.1079234200.squirrel@mail.yazzy.org> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:16:40 -0600 (CST) From: "masta" To: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-YazzY.org: Found to be clean Subject: X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: masta@wifibsd.org List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 03:16:51 -0000 Hi, Indeed, wifibsd is a subtractive process of what we might call "sysgen" scripts, for post buildworld, as I explained to Sean in IRC. I really like nanobsd because it doesn't waste my time (just like picobsd) building all the things that I would just filter out with custom lists of files. Warner said something about a post buildworld system of exclusion for the installworld target, and I'd really like to see us go this way too. Both methods in terms of speed to deploy, and flexibility to hack (NO_FOO=YES vs installworld exclusion lists) would be ideal. Mainly nanobsd is nice because I get tired of crunching, and crunchgen. Since it is default to have dynamic bins FreeBSD is already as near picobsd it can be without crunching. To me this alone makes 5.x more ideal for embedded projects are things like devfs, default small dynamic world. I've thought about making a wifibsd version of nanobsd just to see if I can. From what I read this shouldn't be too difficult to customize (my list of files to include). I created wifibsd sysgen scripts in a fit of rage toward using picobsd and crunching, but nanobsd does what I really always ever wanted. If anybody is wanting, I'd be willing to help 5.x'ize the picobsd scripts? I see no reason to have backward compatibility with 4.x, and I have basicaly everything ready to go directly form my wifibsd scripts. To those who have contributed to picobsd, please don't take offense, but picobsd scripts are ugly. and I can help make them not ugly. Nanobsd is a welcome additon to the embeded community. thanks! -Jon (aka masta) Bruce R. Montague wrote: > > > * Those putting cut-down FreeBSD on CF systems and the like > might be interested in a brief summary of some available > scripts/systems put together by Sean Lazar, "FreeBSD on > Small Board Computers": > > http://www.thirdbreak.org/presentation/ > > Sean's with a group around here (www.thirdbreak.org/) > working with 802.11 community wireless on the soekris > systems. > > They seem to really like wifibsd: > > http://www.thirdbreak.org/presentation/html/slide_9.html > http://www.wifibsd.org/ > >>From Sean's demo, the wifi script seems to act pretty > much like the picobsd script, except it ends up building > a device image that has a normal FreeBSD system, with > user-selected files removed. A number of pre-exisitng > "profiles" exist as starting points for your own CF, live > CD, or pxeboot system. > > Sean analyzed 5 "sysgen scripts" as to resulting system > size and functionality and as to what he called "additive" > (it starts empty, you tell it what files/dirs to add) or > "subtractive" (you start with everything and tell it what > to take out). > > > * Incidently, a "WifiBSD Status Report" appears in the > FreeBSD "March-September 2003 Status Report": > > http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-mar-2003-sep-2003.html#WifiBSD-Status-Report > http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-mar-2003-sep-2003.html > > They appear to be targetting the "out-of-box access point", > but many of the issues are similar to nanobsd and similiar > systems. Some of their files containing lists of working > FreeBSD file subsets might be of interest to others... > > "Contact: Jon Disnard > > WifiBSD is a miniture version of FreeBSD for wireless > applications. Originally for the Soekris Net45xx > line of main-boards, but is now capable of being > targeted to any hardware/architecture FreeBSD itself > supports. Although not feature complete, WifiBSD is > expected to be ready for 5.2-RELEASE. The design > goal is to meet, or exceed, the functionality of > commercial/consumer 802.11 wireless gear. Features > that need attention (to name just a few) are: http > interface, consol menu interface, and installation. > Volunters are welcome." > > > > > > - bruce > _______________________________________________ __ __ _ | \/ | __ _ ___| |_ __ _ | |\/| |/ _` / __| __/ _` | | | | | (_| \__ \ || (_| | |_| |_|\__,_|___/\__\__,_| unzip ; strip ; touch ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep masta@wifibsd.org http://wifibsd.org From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 13 19:17:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F8316A4CE for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:17:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.yazzy.org (mail.yazzy.org [217.8.140.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4513743D39 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:17:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from masta@wifibsd.org) Received: from wifibsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.yazzy.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 591A333C33; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 04:16:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from c-24-0-61-35.client.comcast.net ([24.0.61.35]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user masta@wifibsd.org) by mail.yazzy.org with HTTP; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:16:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <62913.24.0.61.35.1079234216.squirrel@mail.yazzy.org> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:16:56 -0600 (CST) From: "masta" To: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-YazzY.org: Found to be clean Subject: Re: "nanobsd" prototype X-BeenThere: freebsd-small@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: masta@wifibsd.org List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 03:17:02 -0000 Hi, Indeed, wifibsd is a subtractive process of what we might call "sysgen" scripts, for post buildworld, as I explained to Sean in IRC. I really like nanobsd because it doesn't waste my time (just like picobsd) building all the things that I would just filter out with custom lists of files. Warner said something about a post buildworld system of exclusion for the installworld target, and I'd really like to see us go this way too. Both methods in terms of speed to deploy, and flexibility to hack (NO_FOO=YES vs installworld exclusion lists) would be ideal. Mainly nanobsd is nice because I get tired of crunching, and crunchgen. Since it is default to have dynamic bins FreeBSD is already as near picobsd it can be without crunching. To me this alone makes 5.x more ideal for embedded projects are things like devfs, default small dynamic world. I've thought about making a wifibsd version of nanobsd just to see if I can. From what I read this shouldn't be too difficult to customize (my list of files to include). I created wifibsd sysgen scripts in a fit of rage toward using picobsd and crunching, but nanobsd does what I really always ever wanted. If anybody is wanting, I'd be willing to help 5.x'ize the picobsd scripts? I see no reason to have backward compatibility with 4.x, and I have basicaly everything ready to go directly form my wifibsd scripts. To those who have contributed to picobsd, please don't take offense, but picobsd scripts are ugly. and I can help make them not ugly. Nanobsd is a welcome additon to the embeded community. thanks! -Jon (aka masta) Bruce R. Montague wrote: > > > * Those putting cut-down FreeBSD on CF systems and the like > might be interested in a brief summary of some available > scripts/systems put together by Sean Lazar, "FreeBSD on > Small Board Computers": > > http://www.thirdbreak.org/presentation/ > > Sean's with a group around here (www.thirdbreak.org/) > working with 802.11 community wireless on the soekris > systems. > > They seem to really like wifibsd: > > http://www.thirdbreak.org/presentation/html/slide_9.html > http://www.wifibsd.org/ > >>From Sean's demo, the wifi script seems to act pretty > much like the picobsd script, except it ends up building > a device image that has a normal FreeBSD system, with > user-selected files removed. A number of pre-exisitng > "profiles" exist as starting points for your own CF, live > CD, or pxeboot system. > > Sean analyzed 5 "sysgen scripts" as to resulting system > size and functionality and as to what he called "additive" > (it starts empty, you tell it what files/dirs to add) or > "subtractive" (you start with everything and tell it what > to take out). > > > * Incidently, a "WifiBSD Status Report" appears in the > FreeBSD "March-September 2003 Status Report": > > http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-mar-2003-sep-2003.html#WifiBSD-Status-Report > http://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-mar-2003-sep-2003.html > > They appear to be targetting the "out-of-box access point", > but many of the issues are similar to nanobsd and similiar > systems. Some of their files containing lists of working > FreeBSD file subsets might be of interest to others... > > "Contact: Jon Disnard > > WifiBSD is a miniture version of FreeBSD for wireless > applications. Originally for the Soekris Net45xx > line of main-boards, but is now capable of being > targeted to any hardware/architecture FreeBSD itself > supports. Although not feature complete, WifiBSD is > expected to be ready for 5.2-RELEASE. The design > goal is to meet, or exceed, the functionality of > commercial/consumer 802.11 wireless gear. Features > that need attention (to name just a few) are: http > interface, consol menu interface, and installation. > Volunters are welcome." > > > > > > - bruce > _______________________________________________ __ __ _ | \/ | __ _ ___| |_ __ _ | |\/| |/ _` / __| __/ _` | | | | | (_| \__ \ || (_| | |_| |_|\__,_|___/\__\__,_| unzip ; strip ; touch ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep masta@wifibsd.org http://wifibsd.org