From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 14 03:51:12 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CA016A41C for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:51:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsdutah@yahoo.com) Received: from web32403.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32403.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D565D43D53 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:51:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsdutah@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 53944 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jun 2005 03:51:11 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=iMw1CMC1y+fOk8wws+ImYBTcH9JkWrj9K1dcDUhXJKvq9GuQWIhnkFjeZvlt0C1f56JcOvp/9sDn+z6/UF7MJupSmhnn84awgoxa2hXe3f29HZbNACCo558Ii3TDHtvLlbAxopjDZoo4FVpFOcftWTyD1Ph4NiYTKh+4NSkIxCw= ; Message-ID: <20050614035111.53942.qmail@web32403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.10.148.25] by web32403.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:51:11 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:51:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "M. Goodell" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Negative Review of FreeBSD 5.4 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:51:12 -0000 After reading this review and seeing the comment at the bottom that reads: "Low-end Web and email servers, desktop users" I felt compelled to respond. I am personally responsible for three FreeBSD systems. The first being a combination Web Server / Mail Server / DNS Server / FTP Server / MySQL Database server (11+ gig - rebuilt from the ground up once a week) This is our main web server that runs our primary e-commerce site. The Webalizer table shown in this post I believe is a testament to the fact: Our FreeBSD 5.3 web server simply takes a beating and just keeps on running with zero hiccups - period. Summary by MonthMonthDaily AvgMonthly TotalsHitsFilesPagesVisitsSitesKBytesVisitsPagesFilesHitsJun 2005471583863475381274871019740041657098005502247613062May 20055198640956914614022096750990034347628353412696371611584Apr 20055195242175998714312029249523324293829961712652501558579Mar 200562876506601230516972515164497005263338145915704661949175Feb 200559685473751156515622184154251194376132383313265091671185Jan 200559309464821159715472336859381794797135950814409571838596Dec 200454263422881086014732165554502784568533666213109291682178Nov 20044460134908887012711728344896543813426612810472651338054Oct 20044388534678879012601797844660963906727250910750391360438Sep 20044728736904921214111860646061084235027638311071321418618Aug 20044722936825935814791920146368814587029011011415801464129Jul 200446883358721020714221817749911654411031643011120551453382Totals5847851950256535041781416906617958980 The second and third boxes are mail servers that handle E-mail for a national company that pitched their RedHat Linux solution in favor of FreeBSD 5.3 - 5.4. These mail servers handle literally thousands of e-mails everyday - again, without any problems. (Postfix / Amavis / ClamAV) awesome combo! Now, the fact is that "all dogs have fleas" - but I think for someone to state FreeBSD 5.3 / 5.4 are not ready for prime time is not accurate, at least not in my case. It does not get any more "Prime Time" than what we have done with FreeBSD. For us, the proof is in the pudding. I am glad to have FreeBSD out there working so well for us and I am proud to slap my "Powered By FreeBSD" stickers on all three systems. Just a testimonial from the front line & real world . . . M. Goodell __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 14 04:07:57 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B5116A41C for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:07:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsdutah@yahoo.com) Received: from web32413.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32413.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 22D7943D48 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:07:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsdutah@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 97574 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jun 2005 04:07:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=sXYg9nSU/7YtszRJb4aHSIVy7HH8F1WnLx0wKA8D4ebEt091RDOEdORA7utS05xp/BpxV6kTlJlwMOsw3lcwzPzNkIQm+8W3kAYfx3uJtEmLy1roAKy0YSTgnZDoz4NVnJnDWSq6E/e1Ox/klkbgCrSlr/647cYFmPz4n1qy/78= ; Message-ID: <20050614040756.97572.qmail@web32413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.10.148.25] by web32413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:07:56 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:07:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "M. Goodell" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Unreadable Webalizer stats from earlier post X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:07:57 -0000 Here are the stats from our "low end" web server: Month Daily Avg Monthly Totals Hits Files Pages Visits Sites KBytes Visits Pages Files Hits Jun-05 47158 38634 7538 1274 8710 1974004 16570 98005 502247 613062 May-05 51986 40956 9146 1402 20967 5099003 43476 283534 1269637 1611584 Apr-05 51952 42175 9987 1431 20292 4952332 42938 299617 1265250 1558579 Mar-05 62876 50660 12305 1697 25151 6449700 52633 381459 1570466 1949175 Feb-05 59685 47375 11565 1562 21841 5425119 43761 323833 1326509 1671185 Jan-05 59309 46482 11597 1547 23368 5938179 47971 359508 1440957 1838596 Dec-04 54263 42288 10860 1473 21655 5450278 45685 336662 1310929 1682178 Nov-04 44601 34908 8870 1271 17283 4489654 38134 266128 1047265 1338054 Oct-04 43885 34678 8790 1260 17978 4466096 39067 272509 1075039 1360438 Sep-04 47287 36904 9212 1411 18606 4606108 42350 276383 1107132 1418618 Aug-04 47229 36825 9358 1479 19201 4636881 45870 290110 1141580 1464129 Jul-04 46883 35872 10207 1422 18177 4991165 44110 316430 1112055 1453382 Totals 58478519 502565 3504178 14169066 17958980 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 14 04:14:38 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6977716A41C for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:14:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: from sarajevo.pacific.net.sg (sarajevo.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.134]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D69D43D49 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:14:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 4257 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2005 04:09:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO maxwell6.pacific.net.sg) (203.120.90.212) by sarajevo with SMTP; 14 Jun 2005 04:09:32 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.107] ([210.24.246.101]) by maxwell6.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP id <20050614040932.DRDD1233.maxwell6.pacific.net.sg@[192.168.0.107]>; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:09:32 +0800 Message-ID: <42AE586A.5020506@pacific.net.sg> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:09:14 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky Organization: oceanare pte ltd User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050514) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Goodell" References: <20050614035111.53942.qmail@web32403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050614035111.53942.qmail@web32403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Negative Review of FreeBSD 5.4 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:14:38 -0000 Hi, M. Goodell wrote: > After reading this review and seeing the comment at the bottom that reads: > What review? > Now, the fact is that "all dogs have fleas" - but I think for someone to state FreeBSD 5.3 / 5.4 are not ready for prime time is not accurate, at least not in my case. It does not get any more "Prime Time" than what we have done with FreeBSD. For us, the proof is in the pudding. I am glad to have FreeBSD out there working so well for us and I am proud to slap my "Powered By FreeBSD" stickers on all three systems. > Yes, all dogs have fleas. But how long stay the fleas on the dogs? Erich From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 14 04:17:40 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E0E16A41C for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:17:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfak@telus.net) Received: from priv-edtnes51.telusplanet.net (outbound04.telus.net [199.185.220.223]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69DD743D1F for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:17:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pfak@telus.net) Received: from [192.168.1.151] (really [64.180.103.26]) by priv-edtnes51.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with ESMTP id <20050614041739.IOHC3710.priv-edtnes51.telusplanet.net@[192.168.1.151]>; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:17:39 -0600 Message-ID: <42AE5A66.50507@telus.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:17:42 -0700 From: Peter Kieser User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erich Dollansky References: <20050614035111.53942.qmail@web32403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <42AE586A.5020506@pacific.net.sg> In-Reply-To: <42AE586A.5020506@pacific.net.sg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, "M. Goodell" Subject: Re: Negative Review of FreeBSD 5.4 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:17:40 -0000 Erich Dollansky wrote: > Hi, > > M. Goodell wrote: > >> After reading this review and seeing the comment at the bottom that >> reads: > > What review? http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/05/24/2153257&tid=8 --Peter From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 14 04:38:36 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F0B16A41C for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:38:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsdutah@yahoo.com) Received: from web32412.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32412.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 807A043D69 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:38:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsdutah@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 47563 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jun 2005 04:38:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VLqPWcgLQgiAtFfb2iRASstzfYDt5shjV5fylCdnQdWLnl013l3CfSaDKrXSoFPb471qVxYfu2wuLTMavv/8FHGEVdSio6wetVFq69nslzIbVleveVdV9HlnVMB5miyKLR9sij8MAVMOE62CjjFgkKRDJ0CY8+NrX1GB+hawj/E= ; Message-ID: <20050614043833.47561.qmail@web32412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.10.148.25] by web32412.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:38:33 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:38:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "M. Goodell" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Fleas & Negative Review of FreeBSD 5.4 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:38:36 -0000 Mr Dollansky, I would hope you are not trolling in here to advocate the use of Linux as some "magic bullet" and answer to all of our server problems. What I meant by the statement "all dogs have fleas" is that there is no magic bullet - no, not even Linux. Would you perhaps like to point out for me a flavor of Linux that is free of *little problems*? I'd love to see it and use it. I don't think you or anyone else can do that. The fact is that trading one OS for another is trading one set of *little problems* for another set of *little problems* My company must go with what I have seen for myself and that is rock solid stability and performance of FreeBSD. - M Goodell --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out! From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 14 04:42:41 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4239716A41C for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:42:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: from salvador.pacific.net.sg (salvador.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.219]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 682A143D48 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:42:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 3069 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2005 04:42:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO maxwell6.pacific.net.sg) (203.120.90.212) by salvador with SMTP; 14 Jun 2005 04:42:37 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.107] ([210.24.246.101]) by maxwell6.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP id <20050614044237.DWLU1233.maxwell6.pacific.net.sg@[192.168.0.107]>; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:42:37 +0800 Message-ID: <42AE602B.6030509@pacific.net.sg> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:42:19 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky Organization: oceanare pte ltd User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050514) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Kieser References: <20050614035111.53942.qmail@web32403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <42AE586A.5020506@pacific.net.sg> <42AE5A66.50507@telus.net> In-Reply-To: <42AE5A66.50507@telus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, "M. Goodell" Subject: Re: Negative Review of FreeBSD 5.4 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:42:41 -0000 Hi, Peter Kieser wrote: > Erich Dollansky wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> M. Goodell wrote: >> >>> After reading this review and seeing the comment at the bottom that >>> reads: >> >> >> What review? > > > > http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/05/24/2153257&tid=8 > This one again. Erich From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 14 04:48:08 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D3D16A41C for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:48:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: from salvador.pacific.net.sg (salvador.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.219]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1387243D1D for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:48:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from oceanare@pacific.net.sg) Received: (qmail 13122 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2005 04:48:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO maxwell2.pacific.net.sg) (203.120.90.192) by salvador with SMTP; 14 Jun 2005 04:48:06 -0000 Received: from [192.168.0.107] ([210.24.246.101]) by maxwell2.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP id <20050614044806.JHQD28012.maxwell2.pacific.net.sg@[192.168.0.107]>; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:48:06 +0800 Message-ID: <42AE6173.2030003@pacific.net.sg> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:47:47 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky Organization: oceanare pte ltd User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050514) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Goodell" References: <20050614043833.47561.qmail@web32412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050614043833.47561.qmail@web32412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fleas & Negative Review of FreeBSD 5.4 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:48:09 -0000 Hi, M. Goodell wrote: > Mr Dollansky, I would hope you are not trolling in here to advocate the use of Linux as some "magic bullet" and answer to all of our server problems. What I meant by the statement "all dogs have fleas" is that there is no magic bullet - no, not even Linux. This formal on this mailing list? No I am not trolling. I am serious, but in a different direction as you think. Linux is not a solution for me, Linux is a problem. > My company must go with what I have seen for myself and that is rock solid stability and performance of FreeBSD. > FreeBSD is, compared to other operating system stable. But it still has fleas. Those fleas go pretty fast. Compare the time it takes to get problems fixed in other environments with the time it takes to get it fixed by the FreeBSD people. I also have a dog. This dog also has fleas. But they go pretty fast. Just like at FreeBSD. Erich From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 14 19:43:39 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD50416A41C for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:43:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from alec@thened.net) Received: from splinter.bowdoin.edu (splinter.bowdoin.edu [139.140.181.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C67443D1D for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:43:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from alec@thened.net) Received: by splinter.bowdoin.edu (Postfix, from userid 12008) id 43ADEC1F6; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:43:34 -0400 From: Alec Berryman To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20050614194333.GA59472@thened.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <20050614035111.53942.qmail@web32403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jRHKVT23PllUwdXP" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050614035111.53942.qmail@web32403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Ned-Wuz-Here: Yes X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.4-STABLE X-GPG-Fingerprint: 3DB5 8785 53D9 8BF4 5049 B6B9 02E7 7FD9 881C 85C4 X-GPG-Key: http://www.thened.net/~alec/static/alec.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Subject: Re: Negative Review of FreeBSD 5.4 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:43:39 -0000 --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable M. Goodell on 2005-06-13 20:51:11 -0700: > After reading this review and seeing the comment at the bottom that reads= :=20 > =20 > "Low-end Web and email servers, desktop users"=20 > =20 > I felt compelled to respond.=20 You ought to respond with a well-written, thoughtful, and respectful article and ask Newsforge to publish it rather than preaching to the freebsd-advocacy@ choir. --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFCrzNlAud/2YgchcQRAledAJ9dElCfFw1KnQMZRUBaT4/cQCNV6ACgnsAc Jtk095gLt0uq7tNnliZQqcs= =YYcc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 14 22:43:47 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC11316A41C for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:43:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dmp@bitfreak.org) Received: from mail.bitfreak.org (mail.bitfreak.org [65.75.198.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AEF243D55 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:43:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dmp@bitfreak.org) Received: from SMILEY (mail.bitfreak.org [65.75.198.146]) by mail.bitfreak.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F66019F3B; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:45:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Darren Pilgrim" To: "'M. Goodell'" , Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:43:45 -0700 Message-ID: <003401c57132$86aaa140$0a2a15ac@SMILEY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 In-reply-to: <20050614043833.47561.qmail@web32412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: RE: Fleas & Negative Review of FreeBSD 5.4 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:43:47 -0000 From: M. Goodell >=20 > Would you perhaps like to point out for me a flavor of Linux=20 > that is free of *little problems*? I'd love to see it and use=20 > it. I don't think you or anyone else can do that. The fact is=20 > that trading one OS for another is trading one set of *little=20 > problems* for another set of *little problems* Agreed, absolutely. What I've found, however, is that the little problems I run into with FreeBSD are fairly easy to overcome or at least nail down if I take the time to investigate the problem. I've found there are six categories of problems in FreeBSD: - A known issue for which someone has a patch/replacement driver/third-party method. - A known issue that's already fixed at the leading edge of the branch. - A known issue, is meditating upon its solution, please hold. - An engineering flaw in a sub-system for which a major rewrite/replacement has been committed/will be soon committed to -current. - A genuine, bona-fide Brand-New Problem for which appears out of thin-air and begins the diagnostic procedure. - Hardware not supported at this time because the vendor is a moron. Now, in Linux, there are also categories, but they're a bit more depressing: - General systemic illness resulting from way too much stuff installed on one machine. - Aggressive use of tuning/optimization resulting in a system full of corners. - Use of too-new software/driver without proper warnings. - The black-box effect and dirty feeling that my configuration changes are really just suggestions to some manic-depressive AI hidden deep within the kernel. - Lack of structured engineering practices in system design and organization. - Lack of open-access support from accountable individuals. - Hardware supported by mysterious binary drivers that work most of the time. What it really boils down to for me is that unless I want to build a from-scratch system, there isn't a mature, well-supported Linux distro in existence that strongly promotes the creation of a highly-focused configuration (aka a server). For the desktop, I trade off supporting the latest hardware for not having to deal with 7982 window managers and more media players, games, office apps, internet apps and miscellaneous crap than I'll ever use or want, all of it installed without asking me first. I may be stuck without DRI for my ATI Radeon x300 in FreeBSD, but I have to ask this: When I run glxgears and get ~700 FPS at the default window size and 30 FPS with the window maximized at a resolution of 1920x1200x24, do I really NEED it? :) From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 17 12:27:15 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A629716A41C for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:27:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from achill@matrix.gatewaynet.com) Received: from matrix.gatewaynet.com (matrix.gatewaynet.com [217.19.69.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0734D43D55 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:27:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from achill@matrix.gatewaynet.com) Received: from matrix.gatewaynet.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by matrix.gatewaynet.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5HCDUBS006312 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:13:30 +0300 Received: from localhost (achill@localhost) by matrix.gatewaynet.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id j5HCDTd7006308 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:13:30 +0300 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:13:29 +0300 (EEST) From: Achilleus Mantzios To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Why none from FreeBSD in the interview? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:27:15 -0000 at http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/06/09/2132233.shtml ? Altho nothing new was said by either Linus (in the previous interview in the "series"), nor OpenBSD, NetBSD people, i still wonder why FreeBSD was left out of it. -- -Achilleus From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 17 13:32:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E034916A41C for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:32:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE3B43D48 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:32:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08956106; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:32:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E9A26105; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:32:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7A5EF33C1D; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:32:23 +0200 (CEST) To: Achilleus Mantzios References: From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:32:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Achilleus Mantzios's message of "Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:13:29 +0300 (EEST)") Message-ID: <86aclp153s.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -5.2/5.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on tim.des.no Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why none from FreeBSD in the interview? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:32:30 -0000 Achilleus Mantzios writes: > Altho nothing new was said by either Linus (in the previous > interview in the "series"), nor OpenBSD, NetBSD people, > i still wonder why FreeBSD was left out of it. They claim that they "asked the FreeBSD project to participate in this interview but they did not return responses in time for publication." DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 17 13:44:47 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA20116A41C for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:44:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from achill@matrix.gatewaynet.com) Received: from matrix.gatewaynet.com (matrix.gatewaynet.com [217.19.69.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 035FB43D53 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:44:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from achill@matrix.gatewaynet.com) Received: from matrix.gatewaynet.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by matrix.gatewaynet.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5HDUxBS007562; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:30:59 +0300 Received: from localhost (achill@localhost) by matrix.gatewaynet.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id j5HDUxlX007558; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:30:59 +0300 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:30:59 +0300 (EEST) From: Achilleus Mantzios To: =?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: <86aclp153s.fsf@xps.des.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why none from FreeBSD in the interview? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:44:47 -0000 O Dag-Erling Smørgrav Ýãñáøå óôéò Jun 17, 2005 : > Achilleus Mantzios writes: > > Altho nothing new was said by either Linus (in the previous > > interview in the "series"), nor OpenBSD, NetBSD people, > > i still wonder why FreeBSD was left out of it. > > They claim that they "asked the FreeBSD project to participate in this > interview but they did not return responses in time for publication." Damned! Even i could spit out some good arguments in favor of FreeBSD as a superior *workstation* platform for the serious developer. Ok, just to get serious, i couldn't live without the base64 programm and the unique history completion of tcsh (not found in any linux i know of). Not to say about the only free unix implementation of JavaComms in FreeBSD ports. Also it strikes me (alright starting to feel i am getting in chat mode), that after a decade of intense advocacy, public attention, and corporate support, linuxes are still on par with FreeBSD, which is based on few (compared to linux) individuals... I wouldn't classify this "operation linux" as high "value for effort". > > DES > -- -Achilleus