From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 9 07:36:08 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F11E16A4CE; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 07:36:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16D5043D2F; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 07:36:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j097WG80057001; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 02:32:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)j097WBrq056998; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 07:32:12 GMT (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 07:32:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Scott Long In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: Boris Popov cc: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] IPX and NWFS to be killed in -current. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:36:08 -0000 On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Robert Watson wrote: > - IPX cleanup and locking, in particular, normalizing the data structures, > moving to queue(9) from custom lists, locking of the pcb lists and pcbs, > and interactions with socket locking. The basic IPX pieces should fall > out pretty easily; I need to look more closely at SPX before passing > judgement there. > > - Writing some simple IPX/SPX regression suites for loopback traffic and > ethernet traffic. FYI, as of this evening (and per the HEADS UP on freebsd-current), most of the locking part of this is now committed to CVS HEAD, with an intent to merge to RELENG_5 in a few weeks. There's more work to do on the locking/cleanup/testing for IPX/SPX, and I'll chug away a bit more on it, but we should now be in a much better position than we were. Robert N M Watson From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 15:33:27 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3968816A4CE for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:33:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6879843D2F for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:33:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mobile.pittgoth.com (64-144-75-100.client.dsl.net [64.144.75.100]) (authenticated bits=0) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j0AFXOoa041854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:33:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:33:32 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: arch@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 0.9.13 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:33:27 -0000 Hi, Would anyone care if I removed rtld-aout in CURRENT and eventually in RELENG_5? It was unhooked over two years ago during the removal of a.out support by peter. Reviewing the Makefile, it doesn't seem to be built for any architecture. Patch URL is listed below but it review shouldn't be needed. Comments? Yes/no/Tom go away? -- Tom Rhodes http://people.freebsd.org/~trhodes/spring_cleaning/rmRTLD-AOUT.diff From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 18:07:06 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 093D216A4CE; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:07:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from tigra.ip.net.ua (tigra.ip.net.ua [82.193.96.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A9143D1F; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:07:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: from localhost (rocky.ip.net.ua [82.193.96.2]) by tigra.ip.net.ua (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0AI73Hq032311; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:07:03 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: from tigra.ip.net.ua ([82.193.96.10]) by localhost (rocky.ipnet [82.193.96.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 81294-08; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:07:03 +0200 (EET) Received: from heffalump.ip.net.ua (heffalump.ip.net.ua [82.193.96.213]) by tigra.ip.net.ua (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0AI73uQ032308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:07:03 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by heffalump.ip.net.ua (8.13.1/8.13.1) id j0AI6n31045542; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:06:50 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:06:49 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Tom Rhodes Message-ID: <20050110180649.GA45481@ip.net.ua> References: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jI8keyz6grp/JLjh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ip.net.ua cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:07:06 -0000 --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:33:32AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Would anyone care if I removed rtld-aout in CURRENT and eventually > in RELENG_5? It was unhooked over two years ago during the removal > of a.out support by peter. Reviewing the Makefile, it doesn't seem > to be built for any architecture. Patch URL is listed below but it > review shouldn't be needed. >=20 > Comments? Yes/no/Tom go away? >=20 Rumours were to make it (and a bunch of other a.out remnants) a port first, then remove. Cheers, --=20 Ruslan Ermilov ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFB4sQ5qRfpzJluFF4RAswaAJoD7weTEQOQ3xLeV1ViCAJ05GQHcwCcDHoj xObmTO3G59nDSyv+EVjik18= =EvfZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 18:11:05 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4B6E16A4CE; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:11:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D0943D31; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:11:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mobile.pittgoth.com (64-144-75-100.client.dsl.net [64.144.75.100]) (authenticated bits=0) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j0AIB3oa042686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:11:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:11:11 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Ruslan Ermilov Message-ID: <20050110131111.6446bd24@mobile.pittgoth.com> In-Reply-To: <20050110180649.GA45481@ip.net.ua> References: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> <20050110180649.GA45481@ip.net.ua> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 0.9.13 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:11:06 -0000 On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:06:49 +0200 Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:33:32AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Would anyone care if I removed rtld-aout in CURRENT and eventually > > in RELENG_5? It was unhooked over two years ago during the removal > > of a.out support by peter. Reviewing the Makefile, it doesn't seem > > to be built for any architecture. Patch URL is listed below but it > > review shouldn't be needed. > > > > Comments? Yes/no/Tom go away? > > > Rumours were to make it (and a bunch of other a.out remnants) a > port first, then remove. Yep, I recall. And we see how that happened eh? :) Note to whoever makes it a port: this is broken -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 18:15:35 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4563B16A572; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:15:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D258743D48; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:15:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.254.12] (g4.samsco.home [192.168.254.12]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j0AIIv3O040673; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:18:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <41E2C641.40101@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:15:29 -0700 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040514 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Rhodes References: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> <20050110180649.GA45481@ip.net.ua> <20050110131111.6446bd24@mobile.pittgoth.com> In-Reply-To: <20050110131111.6446bd24@mobile.pittgoth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on pooker.samsco.org cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:15:35 -0000 Tom Rhodes wrote: > On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:06:49 +0200 > Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > >>On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:33:32AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>Would anyone care if I removed rtld-aout in CURRENT and eventually >>>in RELENG_5? It was unhooked over two years ago during the removal >>>of a.out support by peter. Reviewing the Makefile, it doesn't seem >>>to be built for any architecture. Patch URL is listed below but it >>>review shouldn't be needed. >>> >>>Comments? Yes/no/Tom go away? >>> >> >>Rumours were to make it (and a bunch of other a.out remnants) a >>port first, then remove. > > > Yep, I recall. And we see how that happened eh? :) > > Note to whoever makes it a port: this is broken > I thought that we still supported running aout binaries in 5.x and 6.x, but we didn't support compiling them anymore (except possibly via a certain gcc port). How does rtld-aout fit into this? Does this mean that we can only run static aout binaries now? Scott From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 18:24:17 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BD5F16A4CE; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:24:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A3F43D54; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:24:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mobile.pittgoth.com (64-144-75-100.client.dsl.net [64.144.75.100]) (authenticated bits=0) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j0AIOFoa042776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:24:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:24:22 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20050110132422.54ea9b2b@mobile.pittgoth.com> In-Reply-To: <41E2C641.40101@freebsd.org> References: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> <20050110180649.GA45481@ip.net.ua> <20050110131111.6446bd24@mobile.pittgoth.com> <41E2C641.40101@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 0.9.13 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Tom Rhodes cc: Ruslan Ermilov cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:24:17 -0000 On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:15:29 -0700 Scott Long wrote: > Tom Rhodes wrote: > > > On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:06:49 +0200 > > Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > > > > >>On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:33:32AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > >> > >>>Hi, > >>> > >>>Would anyone care if I removed rtld-aout in CURRENT and eventually > >>>in RELENG_5? It was unhooked over two years ago during the removal > >>>of a.out support by peter. Reviewing the Makefile, it doesn't seem > >>>to be built for any architecture. Patch URL is listed below but it > >>>review shouldn't be needed. > >>> > >>>Comments? Yes/no/Tom go away? > >>> > >> > >>Rumours were to make it (and a bunch of other a.out remnants) a > >>port first, then remove. > > > > > > Yep, I recall. And we see how that happened eh? :) > > > > Note to whoever makes it a port: this is broken > > > > I thought that we still supported running aout binaries in 5.x and 6.x, > but we didn't support compiling them anymore (except possibly via a I didn't think we even did that. *shurg* > certain gcc port). How does rtld-aout fit into this? Does this mean > that we can only run static aout binaries now? It's used for dynamic linking a.out so I would guess you're right about that. :( -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 18:35:19 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5AE16A4CE; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:35:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05A8043D31; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:35:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) id j0AIZFEI031485; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:35:15 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dan) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:35:15 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: Tom Rhodes Message-ID: <20050110183515.GC84945@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> <20050110180649.GA45481@ip.net.ua> <20050110131111.6446bd24@mobile.pittgoth.com> <41E2C641.40101@freebsd.org> <20050110132422.54ea9b2b@mobile.pittgoth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050110132422.54ea9b2b@mobile.pittgoth.com> X-OS: FreeBSD 5.3-STABLE X-message-flag: Outlook Error User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: Scott Long cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:35:19 -0000 In the last episode (Jan 10), Tom Rhodes said: > On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:15:29 -0700 Scott Long wrote: > > I thought that we still supported running aout binaries in 5.x and > > 6.x, but we didn't support compiling them anymore (except possibly > > via a > > I didn't think we even did that. *shurg* I've got quite a few 2.2 binaries lying around that still run on 5.x. Both netscape-4.76 and that old lanstat demo work fine. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 18:42:46 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C9616A4CE; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:42:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from tigra.ip.net.ua (tigra.ip.net.ua [82.193.96.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C8E43D48; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:42:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: from localhost (rocky.ip.net.ua [82.193.96.2]) by tigra.ip.net.ua (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0AIgilf034633; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:42:44 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: from tigra.ip.net.ua ([82.193.96.10]) by localhost (rocky.ipnet [82.193.96.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 15229-06; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:42:41 +0200 (EET) Received: from heffalump.ip.net.ua (heffalump.ip.net.ua [82.193.96.213]) by tigra.ip.net.ua (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0AIgeQs034627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:42:40 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru@ip.net.ua) Received: (from ru@localhost) by heffalump.ip.net.ua (8.13.1/8.13.1) id j0AIgR7B045900; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:42:27 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from ru) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:42:27 +0200 From: Ruslan Ermilov To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20050110184227.GA45771@ip.net.ua> References: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> <20050110180649.GA45481@ip.net.ua> <20050110131111.6446bd24@mobile.pittgoth.com> <41E2C641.40101@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <41E2C641.40101@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ip.net.ua cc: Tom Rhodes cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:42:47 -0000 --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 11:15:29AM -0700, Scott Long wrote: > Tom Rhodes wrote: >=20 > >On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:06:49 +0200 > >Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > > > > >>On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:33:32AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > >> > >>>Hi, > >>> > >>>Would anyone care if I removed rtld-aout in CURRENT and eventually > >>>in RELENG_5? It was unhooked over two years ago during the removal > >>>of a.out support by peter. Reviewing the Makefile, it doesn't seem > >>>to be built for any architecture. Patch URL is listed below but it > >>>review shouldn't be needed. > >>> > >>>Comments? Yes/no/Tom go away? > >>> > >> > >>Rumours were to make it (and a bunch of other a.out remnants) a > >>port first, then remove. > > > > > >Yep, I recall. And we see how that happened eh? :) > > > >Note to whoever makes it a port: this is broken > > >=20 > I thought that we still supported running aout binaries in 5.x and 6.x, > but we didn't support compiling them anymore (except possibly via a > certain gcc port). How does rtld-aout fit into this? Does this mean > that we can only run static aout binaries now? >=20 The a.out (binary) version of ld.so is part of the misc/compat22 port and src/lib/compat/compat22/ in RELENG_5. Cheers, --=20 Ruslan Ermilov ru@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFB4syTqRfpzJluFF4RArrrAJ9vyt8FDV3q1CDpUZCAqk7p/lhSkQCfQdzP OHgU8smRWlupu5BSkDz+itw= =1LVF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 19:19:13 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 682B016A4CE for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:19:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail3.speakeasy.net (mail3.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.203]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D4843D31 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:19:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 21792 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2005 19:19:12 -0000 Received: from dsl027-160-063.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) encrypted SMTP for ; 10 Jan 2005 19:19:11 -0000 Received: from [10.50.41.243] (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0AJJ64i011750; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:19:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:19:47 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> <41E2C641.40101@freebsd.org> <20050110184227.GA45771@ip.net.ua> In-Reply-To: <20050110184227.GA45771@ip.net.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200501101419.47016.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on server.baldwin.cx cc: Scott Long cc: Ruslan Ermilov cc: arch@FreeBSD.org cc: Tom Rhodes Subject: Re: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:19:13 -0000 On Monday 10 January 2005 01:42 pm, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 11:15:29AM -0700, Scott Long wrote: > > Tom Rhodes wrote: > > >On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:06:49 +0200 > > > > > >Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > >>On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:33:32AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > >>>Hi, > > >>> > > >>>Would anyone care if I removed rtld-aout in CURRENT and eventually > > >>>in RELENG_5? It was unhooked over two years ago during the removal > > >>>of a.out support by peter. Reviewing the Makefile, it doesn't seem > > >>>to be built for any architecture. Patch URL is listed below but it > > >>>review shouldn't be needed. > > >>> > > >>>Comments? Yes/no/Tom go away? > > >> > > >>Rumours were to make it (and a bunch of other a.out remnants) a > > >>port first, then remove. > > > > > >Yep, I recall. And we see how that happened eh? :) > > > > > >Note to whoever makes it a port: this is broken > > > > I thought that we still supported running aout binaries in 5.x and 6.x, > > but we didn't support compiling them anymore (except possibly via a > > certain gcc port). How does rtld-aout fit into this? Does this mean > > that we can only run static aout binaries now? > > The a.out (binary) version of ld.so is part of the misc/compat22 port > and src/lib/compat/compat22/ in RELENG_5. Which is probably where it belongs rather than being built from source. I think it should be ok to axe the source now. If anyone wants it to make a port they can always go get it from the Attic. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 19:19:14 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A9716A4CE for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:19:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail3.speakeasy.net (mail3.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.203]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104F643D31 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:19:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 21792 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2005 19:19:12 -0000 Received: from dsl027-160-063.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) encrypted SMTP for ; 10 Jan 2005 19:19:11 -0000 Received: from [10.50.41.243] (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0AJJ64i011750; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:19:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:19:47 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> <41E2C641.40101@freebsd.org> <20050110184227.GA45771@ip.net.ua> In-Reply-To: <20050110184227.GA45771@ip.net.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200501101419.47016.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on server.baldwin.cx cc: Scott Long cc: Ruslan Ermilov cc: arch@FreeBSD.org cc: Tom Rhodes Subject: Re: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:19:14 -0000 On Monday 10 January 2005 01:42 pm, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 11:15:29AM -0700, Scott Long wrote: > > Tom Rhodes wrote: > > >On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:06:49 +0200 > > > > > >Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > >>On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:33:32AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > >>>Hi, > > >>> > > >>>Would anyone care if I removed rtld-aout in CURRENT and eventually > > >>>in RELENG_5? It was unhooked over two years ago during the removal > > >>>of a.out support by peter. Reviewing the Makefile, it doesn't seem > > >>>to be built for any architecture. Patch URL is listed below but it > > >>>review shouldn't be needed. > > >>> > > >>>Comments? Yes/no/Tom go away? > > >> > > >>Rumours were to make it (and a bunch of other a.out remnants) a > > >>port first, then remove. > > > > > >Yep, I recall. And we see how that happened eh? :) > > > > > >Note to whoever makes it a port: this is broken > > > > I thought that we still supported running aout binaries in 5.x and 6.x, > > but we didn't support compiling them anymore (except possibly via a > > certain gcc port). How does rtld-aout fit into this? Does this mean > > that we can only run static aout binaries now? > > The a.out (binary) version of ld.so is part of the misc/compat22 port > and src/lib/compat/compat22/ in RELENG_5. Which is probably where it belongs rather than being built from source. I think it should be ok to axe the source now. If anyone wants it to make a port they can always go get it from the Attic. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 19:21:45 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CD516A4CE; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:21:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.vicor-nb.com (bigwoop.vicor-nb.com [208.206.78.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8C043D2F; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:21:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from elischer.org (julian.vicor-nb.com [208.206.78.97]) by mail.vicor-nb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E97807A403; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:21:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <41E2D5C5.3040900@elischer.org> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:21:41 -0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030516 X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Rhodes References: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> In-Reply-To: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:21:45 -0000 Tom Rhodes wrote: >Hi, > >Would anyone care if I removed rtld-aout in CURRENT and eventually >in RELENG_5? It was unhooked over two years ago during the removal >of a.out support by peter. Reviewing the Makefile, it doesn't seem >to be built for any architecture. Patch URL is listed below but it >review shouldn't be needed. > >Comments? Yes/no/Tom go away? > does this stop me from running 2.2.1 or 1.1.5 binraies? (probably not but..) > > > From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 19:21:55 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2807816A4CE; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:21:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A23943D46; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:21:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mobile.pittgoth.com (64-144-75-100.client.dsl.net [64.144.75.100]) (authenticated bits=0) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j0AJLqoa043087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:21:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:21:59 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: John Baldwin Message-ID: <20050110142159.081ce32f@mobile.pittgoth.com> In-Reply-To: <200501101419.47016.jhb@FreeBSD.org> References: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> <41E2C641.40101@freebsd.org> <20050110184227.GA45771@ip.net.ua> <200501101419.47016.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 0.9.13 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Tom Rhodes cc: Ruslan Ermilov cc: Scott Long cc: arch@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:21:55 -0000 On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:19:47 -0500 John Baldwin wrote: > On Monday 10 January 2005 01:42 pm, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 11:15:29AM -0700, Scott Long wrote: > > > Tom Rhodes wrote: > > > >On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:06:49 +0200 > > > > > > > >Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > > >>On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:33:32AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > > >>>Hi, > > > >>> > > > >>>Would anyone care if I removed rtld-aout in CURRENT and eventually > > > >>>in RELENG_5? It was unhooked over two years ago during the removal > > > >>>of a.out support by peter. Reviewing the Makefile, it doesn't seem > > > >>>to be built for any architecture. Patch URL is listed below but it > > > >>>review shouldn't be needed. > > > >>> > > > >>>Comments? Yes/no/Tom go away? > > > >> > > > >>Rumours were to make it (and a bunch of other a.out remnants) a > > > >>port first, then remove. > > > > > > > >Yep, I recall. And we see how that happened eh? :) > > > > > > > >Note to whoever makes it a port: this is broken > > > > > > I thought that we still supported running aout binaries in 5.x and 6.x, > > > but we didn't support compiling them anymore (except possibly via a > > > certain gcc port). How does rtld-aout fit into this? Does this mean > > > that we can only run static aout binaries now? > > > > The a.out (binary) version of ld.so is part of the misc/compat22 port > > and src/lib/compat/compat22/ in RELENG_5. > > Which is probably where it belongs rather than being built from source. I > think it should be ok to axe the source now. If anyone wants it to make a > port they can always go get it from the Attic. Thanks for the support John! :) -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 19:21:55 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2807816A4CE; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:21:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A23943D46; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:21:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mobile.pittgoth.com (64-144-75-100.client.dsl.net [64.144.75.100]) (authenticated bits=0) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j0AJLqoa043087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:21:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:21:59 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: John Baldwin Message-ID: <20050110142159.081ce32f@mobile.pittgoth.com> In-Reply-To: <200501101419.47016.jhb@FreeBSD.org> References: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> <41E2C641.40101@freebsd.org> <20050110184227.GA45771@ip.net.ua> <200501101419.47016.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 0.9.13 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Tom Rhodes cc: Ruslan Ermilov cc: Scott Long cc: arch@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:21:55 -0000 On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:19:47 -0500 John Baldwin wrote: > On Monday 10 January 2005 01:42 pm, Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 11:15:29AM -0700, Scott Long wrote: > > > Tom Rhodes wrote: > > > >On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:06:49 +0200 > > > > > > > >Ruslan Ermilov wrote: > > > >>On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 10:33:32AM -0500, Tom Rhodes wrote: > > > >>>Hi, > > > >>> > > > >>>Would anyone care if I removed rtld-aout in CURRENT and eventually > > > >>>in RELENG_5? It was unhooked over two years ago during the removal > > > >>>of a.out support by peter. Reviewing the Makefile, it doesn't seem > > > >>>to be built for any architecture. Patch URL is listed below but it > > > >>>review shouldn't be needed. > > > >>> > > > >>>Comments? Yes/no/Tom go away? > > > >> > > > >>Rumours were to make it (and a bunch of other a.out remnants) a > > > >>port first, then remove. > > > > > > > >Yep, I recall. And we see how that happened eh? :) > > > > > > > >Note to whoever makes it a port: this is broken > > > > > > I thought that we still supported running aout binaries in 5.x and 6.x, > > > but we didn't support compiling them anymore (except possibly via a > > > certain gcc port). How does rtld-aout fit into this? Does this mean > > > that we can only run static aout binaries now? > > > > The a.out (binary) version of ld.so is part of the misc/compat22 port > > and src/lib/compat/compat22/ in RELENG_5. > > Which is probably where it belongs rather than being built from source. I > think it should be ok to axe the source now. If anyone wants it to make a > port they can always go get it from the Attic. Thanks for the support John! :) -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 19:40:59 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4994816A4CE; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:40:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA56B43D1D; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:40:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mobile.pittgoth.com (64-144-75-100.client.dsl.net [64.144.75.100]) (authenticated bits=0) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j0AJeroa043180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:40:53 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:41:00 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: Julian Elischer Message-ID: <20050110144100.4163763f@mobile.pittgoth.com> In-Reply-To: <41E2D5C5.3040900@elischer.org> References: <20050110103332.7dbc2f72@mobile.pittgoth.com> <41E2D5C5.3040900@elischer.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 0.9.13 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.3) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: Tom Rhodes cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Removing rtld-aout X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:40:59 -0000 On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:21:41 -0800 Julian Elischer wrote: > > > Tom Rhodes wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >Would anyone care if I removed rtld-aout in CURRENT and eventually > >in RELENG_5? It was unhooked over two years ago during the removal > >of a.out support by peter. Reviewing the Makefile, it doesn't seem > >to be built for any architecture. Patch URL is listed below but it > >review shouldn't be needed. > > > >Comments? Yes/no/Tom go away? > > > > does this stop me from running 2.2.1 or 1.1.5 binraies? > (probably not but..) No, as has already been pointed out: The code for this utility is broken on CURRENT + 5.3; See src/lib/compat/compat22/ or the misc/compat22 port. :) -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 21:40:49 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F10916A4CE for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:40:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (f170.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.170]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F98343D3F for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:40:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j0BLekdT023764 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:40:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: arch@freebsd.org From: Poul-Henning Kamp Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:40:46 +0100 Message-ID: <23763.1105479646@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk Subject: Slight change of vnode<-->vm object relationship. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:40:49 -0000 Today a vnode gets its vm object through an explicit call to VOP_CREATEVOBJECT() and these calls are scattered all over the place in code which shouldn't really have to know about this detail. It seems to me that it would make much more sense to make it became the responsibility of VOP_OPEN() and VOP_CLOSE() to manage the vnodes vm_object. First of all, it gets put into the filesystem which implements the vnode, that's always cleaner, even if it just ends up calling a generic function to do all the work. But second, and from a buffer cache perspective far more important reason: it makes the VOP_GETVOBJECT() call go away because the vp->v_object pointer will be stable as long as the vnode is open. The vp->v_object pointer is likely to be valid also after the vnode has been closed, at least as long as there are cached pages in RAM for the vnode, but again the vp->v_object pointer will tell us that without a need to call down the stack of vnodes to find out. For NULLFS/UNIONFS this works particular elegant: on VOP_OPEN, the lower vnods v_object is copied to the upper vnode (I don't even think we need to grab a reference because we already have a reference on the lower vnode anyway). On VOP_CLOSE we simply zero the v_object pointer on the upper vnode. The lower vnode will still cache the object and pages, and if we open again, all we have to do is copy the pointer. Anyone spot what I didn't ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 22:54:46 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC1016A4CE for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:54:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.204]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D68A943D46 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:54:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from peadar.edwards@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 58so397229wri for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:54:45 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=j7j6j7fmrMjDWHR0+3vjJ1SmvGRrqQAixWBEHBGeSssMoaaMBeinj8TP2IY24lkW7ixlB0lNaPi5XiVwSPAnMWa7uknNBBT5JUufM2wRqRK3OgPdniIIN1MtvCj2FLzfFGfldtZvgBu2evvk02mIJvyOqHs5WEL277i8QfZnCAk= Received: by 10.54.27.60 with SMTP id a60mr302695wra; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:54:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.57.76 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:54:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34cb7c84050111145415980aa2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:54:45 +0000 From: Peter Edwards To: Poul-Henning Kamp In-Reply-To: <23763.1105479646@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <23763.1105479646@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Slight change of vnode<-->vm object relationship. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Peter Edwards List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:54:46 -0000 How about mmap() mappings after the close()? These can persist post VOP_CLOSE, can't they? On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:40:46 +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > Today a vnode gets its vm object through an explicit call to > VOP_CREATEVOBJECT() and these calls are scattered all over the place > in code which shouldn't really have to know about this detail. > > It seems to me that it would make much more sense to make it became > the responsibility of VOP_OPEN() and VOP_CLOSE() to manage the vnodes > vm_object. > > First of all, it gets put into the filesystem which implements the > vnode, that's always cleaner, even if it just ends up calling a generic > function to do all the work. > > But second, and from a buffer cache perspective far more important > reason: it makes the VOP_GETVOBJECT() call go away because the > vp->v_object pointer will be stable as long as the vnode is open. > > The vp->v_object pointer is likely to be valid also after the vnode > has been closed, at least as long as there are cached pages in > RAM for the vnode, but again the vp->v_object pointer will tell > us that without a need to call down the stack of vnodes to find out. > > For NULLFS/UNIONFS this works particular elegant: on VOP_OPEN, > the lower vnods v_object is copied to the upper vnode (I don't even > think we need to grab a reference because we already have a reference > on the lower vnode anyway). On VOP_CLOSE we simply zero the v_object > pointer on the upper vnode. The lower vnode will still cache the > object and pages, and if we open again, all we have to do is copy > the pointer. > > Anyone spot what I didn't ? > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 23:08:42 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D8F16A4CE for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:08:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (f170.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.170]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C6243D39 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:08:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j0BN8Zar025165; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:08:35 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Peter Edwards From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:54:45 GMT." <34cb7c84050111145415980aa2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:08:35 +0100 Message-ID: <25164.1105484915@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Slight change of vnode<-->vm object relationship. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:08:42 -0000 In message <34cb7c84050111145415980aa2@mail.gmail.com>, Peter Edwards writes: >How about mmap() mappings after the close()? These can persist post >VOP_CLOSE, can't they? I belive they hold a reference to the vnode so that it is in fact not really closed after all, it just looks that way from userland. If that wasn't the case, then we would be leaking diskspace all over the place if people did: create file fill with data mmap unlink file close file -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 23:51:34 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84EFB16A4CF for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:51:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from duchess.speedfactory.net (duchess.speedfactory.net [66.23.201.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 98E8743D3F for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:51:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ups@tree.com) Received: (qmail 32193 invoked by uid 89); 11 Jan 2005 23:51:17 -0000 Received: from duchess.speedfactory.net (66.23.201.84) by duchess.speedfactory.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 23:51:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 30822 invoked by uid 89); 11 Jan 2005 23:50:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO palm.tree.com) (66.23.216.49) by duchess.speedfactory.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 23:50:29 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.tree.com [127.0.0.1]) by palm.tree.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j0BNnuNg057720; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:50:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ups@tree.com) From: Stephan Uphoff To: Poul-Henning Kamp In-Reply-To: <23763.1105479646@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <23763.1105479646@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1105487395.57137.26.camel@palm.tree.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:49:56 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Slight change of vnode<-->vm object relationship. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:51:34 -0000 On Tue, 2005-01-11 at 16:40, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > Today a vnode gets its vm object through an explicit call to > VOP_CREATEVOBJECT() and these calls are scattered all over the place > in code which shouldn't really have to know about this detail. > > It seems to me that it would make much more sense to make it became > the responsibility of VOP_OPEN() and VOP_CLOSE() to manage the vnodes > vm_object. > > First of all, it gets put into the filesystem which implements the > vnode, that's always cleaner, even if it just ends up calling a generic > function to do all the work. > > But second, and from a buffer cache perspective far more important > reason: it makes the VOP_GETVOBJECT() call go away because the > vp->v_object pointer will be stable as long as the vnode is open. > > The vp->v_object pointer is likely to be valid also after the vnode > has been closed, at least as long as there are cached pages in > RAM for the vnode, but again the vp->v_object pointer will tell > us that without a need to call down the stack of vnodes to find out. > > For NULLFS/UNIONFS this works particular elegant: on VOP_OPEN, > the lower vnods v_object is copied to the upper vnode (I don't even > think we need to grab a reference because we already have a reference > on the lower vnode anyway). On VOP_CLOSE we simply zero the v_object > pointer on the upper vnode. The lower vnode will still cache the > object and pages, and if we open again, all we have to do is copy > the pointer. > > Anyone spot what I didn't ? Do you mean VOP_INACTIVE instead of VOP_CLOSE ? VOP_CLOSE is called for every close() call to the file - not just the last close. The NFS server also does not call VOP_OPEN - so this may be another problem. Stephan From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 12 00:27:07 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4DE216A4F7 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:27:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 556B443D46 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:27:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from peadar.edwards@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 58so406513wri for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:27:06 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=dtraIyUrb2zCk05wSBD+hSlUAtkFHvuhERfoLgl8T4XKMA4yotHzI3kVKDRYftHhqFE8QoQV4JCAOJKORm29Cqtt2X898ui9gz2JnlVQEUBsXF6zjwlZW4kluNBJW6555sDVs48ZQriPbSZCPbgRp0RM6homTW6SjM8MsZbFrkk= Received: by 10.54.39.76 with SMTP id m76mr208532wrm; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:27:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.57.76 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:27:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34cb7c840501111627d3a1bf3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:27:06 +0000 From: Peter Edwards To: Poul-Henning Kamp In-Reply-To: <25164.1105484915@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <34cb7c84050111145415980aa2@mail.gmail.com> <25164.1105484915@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: arch@freebsd.org cc: ups@tree.com Subject: Re: Slight change of vnode<-->vm object relationship. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Peter Edwards List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:27:08 -0000 On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:08:35 +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <34cb7c84050111145415980aa2@mail.gmail.com>, Peter Edwards writes: > > >How about mmap() mappings after the close()? These can persist post > >VOP_CLOSE, can't they? > > I belive they hold a reference to the vnode so that it is in fact > not really closed after all, it just looks that way from userland. > As Stephan pointed out, that's looked after by VOP_INACTIVE, which doesn't pair quite as smoothly with VOP_OPEN. Also, the VOP_OPEN/VOP_CLOSE doesn't seem to bracket for exec() either (there's a call to VOP_OPEN, but I can't find the matching VOP_CLOSE. That could be just a bug, or myopia on my part) From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 12 11:21:53 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FFDC16A4CE for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:21:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (f170.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.170]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C752043D2F for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:21:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j0CBLo4S036081; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:21:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Stephan Uphoff From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:49:56 EST." <1105487395.57137.26.camel@palm.tree.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:21:50 +0100 Message-ID: <36080.1105528910@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Slight change of vnode<-->vm object relationship. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:21:53 -0000 In message <1105487395.57137.26.camel@palm.tree.com>, Stephan Uphoff writes: >Do you mean VOP_INACTIVE instead of VOP_CLOSE ? >VOP_CLOSE is called for every close() call to the file - not just the >last close. yes I do in fact, I simplified a little bit in order to make it clearer for non-VOP-wizards what I was talking about. >The NFS server also does not call VOP_OPEN - so this may be another >problem. That is actually sort of a problem, but a different one, so lets leave it alone for now. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 12 13:20:00 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27CDE16A4CE for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:20:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from darkness.comp.waw.pl (darkness.comp.waw.pl [195.117.238.136]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B554E43D1D for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:19:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pjd@darkness.comp.waw.pl) Received: by darkness.comp.waw.pl (Postfix, from userid 1009) id EB190AC942; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:19:50 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:19:50 +0100 From: Pawel Jakub Dawidek To: arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20050112131950.GN795@darkness.comp.waw.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="qd/SZIFVu+MYwfCR" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i X-PGP-Key-URL: http://people.freebsd.org/~pjd/pjd.asc X-OS: FreeBSD 5.2.1-RC2 i386 Subject: "Kernel" dumps. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:20:00 -0000 --qd/SZIFVu+MYwfCR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi. We need improve our dumps, really. First of all they are too big, because we dump whole memory. Second of all, they are not safe for our users. We should implement two things: - dumping only kernel pages (dump is smaller and without sensitive data from userland processes); - add a malloc(9) flag M_NOUMP which will prevent from dumping pages with sensitive data (e.g. GBDE keys). Any VM-skilled volunteers? Pretty please... --=20 Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl pjd@FreeBSD.org http://www.FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! --qd/SZIFVu+MYwfCR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFB5SP2ForvXbEpPzQRAvKEAKDE46M4F9z2Ak+qdmfqev2x46IXVgCgjxVn h7y2JG/mGaBlOwuefOFDTUU= =a6m4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qd/SZIFVu+MYwfCR-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 12 14:36:44 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3B516A4CE; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:36:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02A3C43D58; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:36:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j0CEWhTF042014; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 09:32:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (robert@localhost)j0CEWhMi042011; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:32:43 GMT (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:32:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Pawel Jakub Dawidek In-Reply-To: <20050112131950.GN795@darkness.comp.waw.pl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: "Kernel" dumps. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:36:44 -0000 On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, Pawel Jakub Dawidek wrote: > We need improve our dumps, really. > > First of all they are too big, because we dump whole memory. Second of > all, they are not safe for our users. > > We should implement two things: > > - dumping only kernel pages (dump is smaller and without sensitive data > from userland processes); > - add a malloc(9) flag M_NOUMP which will prevent from dumping > pages with sensitive data (e.g. GBDE keys). > > Any VM-skilled volunteers? Pretty please... While I don't object in principle to these changes (and recognize why they would be quite beneficial), an important consideration in any touching of the debugging code is minimizing the chances that corrupt kernel data structures will prevent us from gathering debugging information effectively. If the dump code has to walk VM data structures extensively, that increases the risk that the dump will fail due to an invalid pointer dereference, especially if what's being debugged is a VM bug. We already enter a temporary mapping for each physical page during the dump process so that the pages can be dumped, I guess, so maybe this is not such a big issue. However, one of the things that has made FreeBSD a great operating system to develop on in the past has been robust and consistent debugging tools--the current tools seem a little less robust post-SMPng, largely due to relatively minor nits that need to be cleaned up, but I'd hate for them to get less reliable if that's avoidable. Robert N M Watson From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 12 15:23:16 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D0D616A4CE for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:23:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.freebsd.org.cn (dns3.freebsd.org.cn [61.129.66.75]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 24BEE43D1D for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:23:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: (qmail 9389 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jan 2005 15:15:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO beastie.frontfree.net) (219.239.99.7) by mail.freebsd.org.cn with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 15:15:28 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24381312B3; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 23:22:53 +0800 (CST) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (beastie.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06734-07; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 23:22:41 +0800 (CST) Received: by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E33DD13136C; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 23:22:40 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 23:22:40 +0800 From: Xin LI To: Pawel Jakub Dawidek Message-ID: <20050112152240.GA6710@frontfree.net> References: <20050112131950.GN795@darkness.comp.waw.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="zYM0uCDKw75PZbzx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050112131950.GN795@darkness.comp.waw.pl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-GPG-key-ID/Fingerprint: 0xCAEEB8C0 / 43B8 B703 B8DD 0231 B333 DC28 39FB 93A0 CAEE B8C0 X-GPG-Public-Key: http://www.delphij.net/delphij.asc X-Operating-System: FreeBSD beastie.frontfree.net 5.3-RELEASE-p2 FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE-p2 #15: Wed Dec 15 10:43:16 CST 2004 delphij@beastie.frontfree.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BEASTIE i386 X-URL: http://www.delphij.net X-By: delphij@beastie.frontfree.net X-Location: Beijing, China X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at frontfree.net cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: "Kernel" dumps. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:23:16 -0000 --zYM0uCDKw75PZbzx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jan 12, 2005 at 02:19:50PM +0100, Pawel Jakub Dawidek wrote: > Hi. >=20 > We need improve our dumps, really. >=20 > First of all they are too big, because we dump whole memory. > Second of all, they are not safe for our users. >=20 > We should implement two things: >=20 > - dumping only kernel pages (dump is smaller and without sensitive data > from userland processes); > - add a malloc(9) flag M_NOUMP which will prevent from dumping > pages with sensitive data (e.g. GBDE keys). >=20 > Any VM-skilled volunteers? Pretty please... A friend of mine has recently implemented a ``mini-dump'', which is primarly a conceptional implementation that I need to do some clean-ups on my spare time. I think in order to have a successful ``kernel dump'' we need to keep least dependency on VM structures (and allow users to switch to a full dump when need). Cheers, --=20 Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ See complete headers for GPG key and other information. --zYM0uCDKw75PZbzx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFB5UDA/cVsHxFZiIoRAuS8AJ9CyZoaC5N4OZIJtd91epfixdTFFwCfbBI3 oA1VuSbcumSiH8RpYmT6350= =bnfH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --zYM0uCDKw75PZbzx-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 13 21:45:12 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ADEE16A4CE for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:45:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (f170.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.170]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77B5343D45 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:45:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j0DLj8Op079158 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:40:46 +0100." <23763.1105479646@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:45:08 +0100 Message-ID: <79157.1105652708@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Slight change of vnode<-->vm object relationship. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:45:12 -0000 In message <23763.1105479646@critter.freebsd.dk>, Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > >Today a vnode gets its vm object through an explicit call to >VOP_CREATEVOBJECT() and these calls are scattered all over the place >in code which shouldn't really have to know about this detail. OK, with some input from various people, in particular kan@, I think we have this stuff worked out: The filesystems implementing a given vnode is responsible for creating a vm_object for the vnode if it should have one. This will happen in the following three entrances to the filesystem: vop_open() For regular files and directories. vop_lookup() For directories. vfs_fhtovp() For files and directories served via NFS. Normal filesystems will call the (function currently known as) vop_stdcreatevobject() in these three places. For the layered filesytems (nullfs, umapfs, unionfs) the same three places will just copy lowervp->v_object (possibly gaining a reference ?) [1] As a result of this, VOP_CREATEVOBJECT() is always an intra-filesystem activity and will therefore be discontinued as a VOP. VOP_DESTROYVOBJECT() will similarly be removed and instead filesystems will be responsible for dismantling the vm_object in their vop_reclaim. function. VOP_GETVOBJECT() and VV_OBJBUF flags becomes unnecessary, instead a NULL check on vp->v_object can be used. Please shoot this down if you can spot flaws... Otherwise keep an eye on p4://depot/user/phk/phk_bufwork/... [1] I still don't think it will be possible to NFS-export unionfs because we do not want to copy the lower file to the upper filesystem until we know it is going to be written to, and that bit of information is currently not availble from NFS since it is stateless. [2] [2] There are other issues with unionfs as well. I'm not promising to fix it, but I'll try to keep it as functional as it is today. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 15 10:36:17 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F40A16A4CE for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:36:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACDF743D2D for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:36:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j0FAa8cf083072; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:36:09 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id j0FAa7UY083071; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:36:07 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:36:07 +0300 From: Yar Tikhiy To: Luigi Rizzo Message-ID: <20050115103607.GA81277@comp.chem.msu.su> References: <18962.1104749259@critter.freebsd.dk> <20050103065715.A67451@xorpc.icir.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050103065715.A67451@xorpc.icir.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: arch@freebsd.org cc: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: Socket rate limiting (was: Re: making nmdm(4) emulate actual speed.) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:36:17 -0000 On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 06:57:16AM -0800, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 11:47:39AM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > I participated in an "Editor Celebrity Death Match" recently and > > being the senior combatant my weapon of choice was ed(1). To > > properly show off ed(1)'s main weakness I wanted to run my slides > > in ed(1) on a 300 bps line. > > > > Rather than use two USB-serial dongles and a usb-hub, I hacked nmdm(4) > > up to actually respect the baud-rate set with stty. > > > > Would this be considered generally useful ? > > being nmdm(4) an emulation tool, i'd say definitely yes, probably > even more useful if you provide a knob to enable/disable the speed > emulation -- i see a point in actually emulating the wire speed, > but also one in not doing so when the application is not speed-sensitive > and you just want it to run quickly. Seeing so many smart folks contributing to this thread, I can't help raising a related question, which has been gnawing at me for quite a while :-) A lot of network daemons implement rate limits by their own. For instance, Apache httpd has mod_throttle, Squid has delay pools, and even lukemftpd has some sort of rate limiting code in it. With the demand for rate limiting being so high, it could be natural for an OS to provide such service to applications through, e.g., a per-socket option. However, I've got an impression from the first glance at the issue that it would be next to impossible to implement such service in a fashion independent of lower layers of network abstraction. I suppose that we have such elaborate and IP-centric subsystems as DUMMYNET and ALTQ partly because of the complexity of the task. Therefore a possible approach is to implement the rate-limit socket option using one of those existing subsystems. Such solution would scale poorly though--imagine a server with thousands of rate-limited sockets open, each of them requiring a separate DUMMYNET pipe. Did anybody have other thoughts or see publications regarding the problem? -- Yar From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 15 10:49:36 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6A716A4CE for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:49:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (xorpc.icir.org [192.150.187.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8637D43D41 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:49:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rizzo@icir.org) Received: from xorpc.icir.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j0FAnUjM032025; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:49:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo@xorpc.icir.org) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by xorpc.icir.org (8.12.11/8.12.3/Submit) id j0FAnU3V032024; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:49:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:49:30 -0800 From: Luigi Rizzo To: Yar Tikhiy Message-ID: <20050115024930.A31992@xorpc.icir.org> References: <18962.1104749259@critter.freebsd.dk> <20050103065715.A67451@xorpc.icir.org> <20050115103607.GA81277@comp.chem.msu.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20050115103607.GA81277@comp.chem.msu.su>; from yar@comp.chem.msu.su on Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 01:36:07PM +0300 cc: arch@freebsd.org cc: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: Re: Socket rate limiting (was: Re: making nmdm(4) emulate actual speed.) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:49:36 -0000 two comments: the reasons why apps implement throttling on their own are 1) portability - they cannot assume the required services are available on the platforms they are going to run on; 2) scheduling and resource management - apps have their own requirement on how to schedule things and it is often unlikely that they can express them in term of altq/dummynet "classes". This said, there is no problem in having thousands of dummynet pipes -- the algorithms used in dummynet have O(log N) cost where N is the number of active pipes. cheers luigi On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 01:36:07PM +0300, Yar Tikhiy wrote: ... > A lot of network daemons implement rate limits by their own. For > instance, Apache httpd has mod_throttle, Squid has delay pools, and > even lukemftpd has some sort of rate limiting code in it. With the > demand for rate limiting being so high, it could be natural for an > OS to provide such service to applications through, e.g., a per-socket > option. > > However, I've got an impression from the first glance at the issue > that it would be next to impossible to implement such service in a > fashion independent of lower layers of network abstraction. I > suppose that we have such elaborate and IP-centric subsystems as > DUMMYNET and ALTQ partly because of the complexity of the task. > Therefore a possible approach is to implement the rate-limit socket > option using one of those existing subsystems. Such solution would > scale poorly though--imagine a server with thousands of rate-limited > sockets open, each of them requiring a separate DUMMYNET pipe. Did > anybody have other thoughts or see publications regarding the > problem? > > -- > Yar From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 15 12:52:54 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B763816A4CE for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 12:52:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (comp.chem.msu.su [158.250.32.97]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B380B43D31 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 12:52:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: from comp.chem.msu.su (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j0FCqocf089188; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:52:50 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar@comp.chem.msu.su) Received: (from yar@localhost) by comp.chem.msu.su (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id j0FCqmh5089179; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:52:48 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from yar) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:52:48 +0300 From: Yar Tikhiy To: Luigi Rizzo Message-ID: <20050115125248.GA88256@comp.chem.msu.su> References: <18962.1104749259@critter.freebsd.dk> <20050103065715.A67451@xorpc.icir.org> <20050115103607.GA81277@comp.chem.msu.su> <20050115024930.A31992@xorpc.icir.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050115024930.A31992@xorpc.icir.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: arch@freebsd.org cc: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: Re: Socket rate limiting (was: Re: making nmdm(4) emulate actual speed.) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 12:52:54 -0000 On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 02:49:30AM -0800, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > two comments: the reasons why apps implement throttling on their > own are > 1) portability - they cannot assume the required services > are available on the platforms they are going to run on; Software (stock daemons in particular) could benefit from having such service through using some kind of #ifdef'ed code. AFAIK, the notorious Apache httpd uses accept filters and sendfile() this way. BTW, it's a partucularly important case that an application can't use sendfile() and do throttling at the same time w/o support from the OS. > 2) scheduling and resource management - apps have their own > requirement on how to schedule things and it is often > unlikely that they can express them in term of altq/dummynet > "classes". Such OS-level rate-limiting service could be the "lowest common denominator" for simpler net apps that just want make sure a client won't get more than X bps of traffic. Then it can be extended to hierarchic classes of clients, e.g., impose an overall limit on all sockets stemming from a single listening socket etc. > This said, there is no problem in having thousands of dummynet > pipes -- the algorithms used in dummynet have O(log N) cost > where N is the number of active pipes. Thank you for your considerations! -- Yar