From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 05:16:08 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEAA116A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 05:16:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mezz7@cox.net) Received: from eastrmmtao01.cox.net (eastrmmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1700544412; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 05:16:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mezz7@cox.net) Received: from mezz.mezzweb.com ([68.103.32.140]) by eastrmmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP id <20050807051605.BOBP12912.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@mezz.mezzweb.com>; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:16:05 -0400 Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 00:17:27 -0500 To: "Colin Percival" References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> From: "Jeremy Messenger" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.02 (Linux, build 1272) Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 05:16:09 -0000 On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 18:55:00 -0500, Colin Percival wrote: > Doug Barton wrote: >> Colin Percival wrote: >>> I'm going to be bringing portsnap into the base system very soon >> >> Pardon my ignorance, but where can I find the discussion where this was >> agreed? I assume in the archives on -arch somewhere, with some input >> from >> portmgr? > > Portsnap itself hasn't been explicitly discussed on freebsd-arch, but it > was mentioned (along with FreeBSD Update) as a reason for adding bsdiff > to the base system when that was discussed. Given the enthusiastic > response > I've received to portsnap, from members of portmgr, dozens of > committers, and > innumerable users, I didn't think it was necessary to raise the question > here. > In the past six months I've stated on numerous occasions my intention to > add > portsnap into the base system, and I don't think I've ever found anyone > who > did not agree with this. > > But for formality: Does anyone have an objection to having the base > system > enlarged by about 40kB by adding a program for updating the ports tree > which > is faster, uses less bandwidth, is more secure, and is easier to use > than cvsup, > while also having the side benefit of distributing pre-built INDEX files? Will portsnap improvement on to not delete any unoffical ports? I have about 15 unoffical ports here in local machine and they are living in /usr/ports for other tools' sake like portupgrade/pkgdb. I have never use it, but I read in the bottom of http://www.daemonology.net/portsnap/ . Cheers, Mezz > Colin Percival -- mezz7@cox.net - mezz@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD GNOME Team http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - gnome@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 05:31:43 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A21B16A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 05:31:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd3mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C7243D49 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 05:31:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr6so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.69]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00AJG6Y1VO60@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 23:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd4mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU0007S6Y104J0@pd4mr6so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 23:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKU0030I6Y1IY@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 23:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 22:22:48 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: To: Jeremy Messenger Message-id: <42F59AA8.2030605@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 05:31:43 -0000 Jeremy Messenger wrote: > Will portsnap improvement on to not delete any unoffical ports? I have > about 15 unoffical ports here in local machine and they are living in > /usr/ports for other tools' sake like portupgrade/pkgdb. I have never > use it, but I read in the bottom of http://www.daemonology.net/portsnap/ . Portsnap will not remove any ports which it doesn't know about. Portsnap will only remove local modifications when they are in a port or infrastructure file (e.g., Mk/*) which portsnap is updating to a newer version. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 05:32:15 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 433B916A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 05:32:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mezz7@cox.net) Received: from eastrmmtao01.cox.net (eastrmmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E0C43D49; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 05:32:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mezz7@cox.net) Received: from mezz.mezzweb.com ([68.103.32.140]) by eastrmmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP id <20050807053211.BPOO12912.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@mezz.mezzweb.com>; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:32:11 -0400 To: "Colin Percival" References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <42F59AA8.2030605@freebsd.org> Message-ID: Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 00:33:36 -0500 From: "Jeremy Messenger" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <42F59AA8.2030605@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.02 (Linux, build 1272) Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 05:32:15 -0000 On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 00:22:48 -0500, Colin Percival wrote: > Jeremy Messenger wrote: >> Will portsnap improvement on to not delete any unoffical ports? I have >> about 15 unoffical ports here in local machine and they are living in >> /usr/ports for other tools' sake like portupgrade/pkgdb. I have never >> use it, but I read in the bottom of >> http://www.daemonology.net/portsnap/ . > > Portsnap will not remove any ports which it doesn't know about. Portsnap > will only remove local modifications when they are in a port or > infrastructure > file (e.g., Mk/*) which portsnap is updating to a newer version. Good, thanks! Cheers, Mezz > Colin Percival -- mezz7@cox.net - mezz@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD GNOME Team http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - gnome@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 06:36:18 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C10416A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 06:36:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.allbsd.org (vlsi00.si.noda.tus.ac.jp [133.31.130.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40CDC44389; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 06:36:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from delta.allbsd.org (p13123-adsau14honb8-acca.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp [220.106.49.123]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.allbsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j776aDXD003943; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 15:36:14 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (alph.allbsd.org [192.168.0.10]) by delta.allbsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j776ZYoh098649; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 15:35:35 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 15:34:25 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> To: cperciva@FreeBSD.org From: Hiroki Sato In-Reply-To: <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> X-PGPkey-fingerprint: BDB3 443F A5DD B3D0 A530 FFD7 4F2C D3D8 2793 CF2D X-Mailer: Mew version 4.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="--Security_Multipart(Sun_Aug__7_15_34_25_2005_372)--" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on gatekeeper.allbsd.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: dougb@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 06:36:18 -0000 ----Security_Multipart(Sun_Aug__7_15_34_25_2005_372)-- Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Colin Percival wrote in <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org>: cp> But for formality: Does anyone have an objection to having the base system cp> enlarged by about 40kB by adding a program for updating the ports tree which cp> is faster, uses less bandwidth, is more secure, and is easier to use than cvsup, cp> while also having the side benefit of distributing pre-built INDEX files? Is the server-side part of portsnap available now? I am interested in mirroring since portsnap.daemonology.net is too far from my box in Japan. -- | Hiroki SATO ----Security_Multipart(Sun_Aug__7_15_34_25_2005_372)-- Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBC9atyTyzT2CeTzy0RAqgHAJ9QGHCNWBh1cGgM2s5XtGSepveg+gCgtY47 R1HZCR0sk0Ntg5qpshYbAOc= =Fd2C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----Security_Multipart(Sun_Aug__7_15_34_25_2005_372)---- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 06:36:57 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EA3E16A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 06:36:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from haven.freebsd.dk (haven.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D764E44444; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 06:36:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.48.2]) by haven.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 388C7BC76; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 06:36:55 +0000 (UTC) To: Tim Robbins From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:30:37 +1000." <42F5AA8D.3060201@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 08:36:55 +0200 Message-ID: <30016.1123396615@phk.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@phk.freebsd.dk Cc: arch@freebsd.org, Robert Watson Subject: Re: putting HESIOD, Appletalk and IPX on notice X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 06:36:57 -0000 In message <42F5AA8D.3060201@freebsd.org>, Tim Robbins writes: >HESIOD should be moved out of libc and into a separate NSS/PAM module >even if we do decide to keep it in the base system. With HESIOD out of >libc, we could then split the DNS code out into a separate libresolv. > >The same could be done with NIS/YP, which would allow us to slim down >libc by moving xdr & rpc into a separate librpc, and yp into a separate >libyp. Sounds like a good plan... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 07:03:56 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 421FA16A421; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 07:03:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tjr@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.76]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13BA1443D8; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 06:30:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tjr@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (220-253-115-10.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.115.10]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA7CD12DBE0; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:30:49 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <42F5AA8D.3060201@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:30:37 +1000 From: Tim Robbins User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson References: <21744.1123267707@phk.freebsd.dk> <20050805214650.H46767@fledge.watson.org> In-Reply-To: <20050805214650.H46767@fledge.watson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: putting HESIOD, Appletalk and IPX on notice X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 07:03:56 -0000 Robert Watson wrote: > On Fri, 5 Aug 2005, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> I think it is time we deorbit HESIOD in toto. >> >> At the same time, making Appletalk and IPX "opt in" facilities by >> putting them under >> YES_IPX >> and >> YES_APPLETALK >> boolean build options seems a sensible move. >> >> Comments ? >> >> The first RELENG_7 release would happen in 2006 or 2007, there is no >> way they will need any of those three protocols. > > > Right now IPX and netatalk are already opt-in for the kernel, as the > options are already non-default. I'm not sure we gain anything by > doing that in user space, other than making it harder to turn them on > (since presumably we're not talking more than a few hundred k in > support code). I've found NETIPX and NETATALK both quite useful during > the netperf work, as they help keep the protocol and socket type > abstractions in the stack real, as well as explain why things are the > way they are. > > My leaning would be to leave them as-is until early 2006, then take an > executive decision then. Since there's not much point in talking > solely about the user space parts, I think the decision should be > about each protocol as a whole (kernel and userspace). At last today, > I know that NETIPX is fairly widely used, because we received lots of > bug reports when 5.3 shipped with it broken (as a result of a compiler > change, it turns out). As a result, we now have a basic set of IPX > and AppleTalk regression tests. > > I have no opinion on HESIOD, other than that I've always through it > somewhat fun -- does MIT still deploy it? If not, then they may have > been the last major site to do so. Probably, it would be useful to > stuff HESIOD in ports since we now support NSS. I'd like to see us > import LDAP support into the base system at some point so that we can > support cAtive Directory integration better. HESIOD should be moved out of libc and into a separate NSS/PAM module even if we do decide to keep it in the base system. With HESIOD out of libc, we could then split the DNS code out into a separate libresolv. The same could be done with NIS/YP, which would allow us to slim down libc by moving xdr & rpc into a separate librpc, and yp into a separate libyp. Tim From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 08:10:36 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F0E16A422; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 08:10:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd2mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3712443CF; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 07:50:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd2mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr2so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.109]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00ANLDJUAD20@l-daemon>; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 01:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd2mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00G87DJUHZH0@pd2mr2so.prod.shaw.ca>; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 01:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00D15DJTVU@l-daemon>; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 01:45:29 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 00:45:29 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> To: Hiroki Sato Message-id: <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: dougb@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 08:10:37 -0000 Hiroki Sato wrote: > Is the server-side part of portsnap available now? There is code for creating a portsnap mirror, but I don't think you really want that... > I am interested in > mirroring since portsnap.daemonology.net is too far from my box in Japan. ... instead, assuming that "too far" really means "too slow", try running the latest version of portsnap from the ports tree (version 0.9.4) using the -x option. That will enable "experimental" pipelined http code which speeds up operation by a factor of 10 or more. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 10:40:03 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B47016A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:40:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC41843D5F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:40:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd5mr8so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr8so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.184]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU002W2LEM1I40@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 04:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd5mr8so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU006V9LEM95A0@pd5mr8so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 04:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00713LEMBB@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 04:35:10 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 03:35:09 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807095644.GA54096@frontfree.net> To: Xin LI Message-id: <42F5E3DD.8010100@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> <20050807095644.GA54096@frontfree.net> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:40:03 -0000 Xin LI wrote: > It would be very important > to set up mirror in the mainland China, as the network here is divided > into three networks, with poor interconnection. Moreover, many > universities will have to pay expensive bandwidth fee if the only > server is not located in the mainland China, which is quite discouraging > when you advocate something in the universities. Mirrors can be set up; please contact me for details after I add portsnap to the base system (there's not much point until then). Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 11:12:49 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F19716A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:12:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from shrike.submonkey.net (cpc4-cdif2-3-1-cust199.cdif.cable.ntl.com [82.31.76.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C4D4442E3; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:12:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.52 (FreeBSD)) id 1E1j5D-0009B9-Bt; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:12:47 +0100 Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:12:47 +0100 From: Ceri Davies To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20050807111247.GD55885@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Colin Percival , Xin LI , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> <20050807095644.GA54096@frontfree.net> <42F5E3DD.8010100@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="4e5ZDkbgLEOfWmLx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42F5E3DD.8010100@freebsd.org> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: Ceri Davies Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:12:49 -0000 --4e5ZDkbgLEOfWmLx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 03:35:09AM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: > Xin LI wrote: > > It would be very important > > to set up mirror in the mainland China, as the network here is divided > > into three networks, with poor interconnection. Moreover, many > > universities will have to pay expensive bandwidth fee if the only > > server is not located in the mainland China, which is quite discouraging > > when you advocate something in the universities. >=20 > Mirrors can be set up; please contact me for details after I add portsnap > to the base system (there's not much point until then). I think it would be important to have the FreeBSD.org cluster capable of distributing portsnap builds, and at least have portsnap.FreeBSD.org be the hostname used, before portsnap is brought into the base system. It isn't nice to say, but if anything were to happen to you... Ceri --=20 Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Einstein (attrib.) --4e5ZDkbgLEOfWmLx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9eyvocfcwTS3JF8RAgd7AJ9YpwSTuKlFYnpui1/C563bOOuIowCfV/E2 XI9urajJYUYpLhZ7ZMtc0CM= =F5f1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --4e5ZDkbgLEOfWmLx-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 11:29:48 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A3B16A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:29:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd2mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC1C943D49 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:29:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd2mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr5so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.8]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00MDINUHO500@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 05:27:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd2mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU006X2NUH3QD0@pd2mr5so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 05:27:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00109NUHJ6@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 05:27:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 04:27:53 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807111247.GD55885@submonkey.net> To: Ceri Davies Message-id: <42F5F039.90905@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> <20050807095644.GA54096@frontfree.net> <42F5E3DD.8010100@freebsd.org> <20050807111247.GD55885@submonkey.net> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:29:48 -0000 Ceri Davies wrote: > On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 03:35:09AM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: >>Mirrors can be set up; please contact me for details after I add portsnap >>to the base system (there's not much point until then). > > I think it would be important to have the FreeBSD.org cluster capable of > distributing portsnap builds, and at least have portsnap.FreeBSD.org be > the hostname used, before portsnap is brought into the base system. > It isn't nice to say, but if anything were to happen to you... Ken Smith created the DNS entries for the first two portsnap mirrors (my server and a mirror donated by Eric Anderson) about two hours ago. The portsnap builds are being done on secteam-managed hardware, and as soon as I'm happy that everything is working correctly I'll send the necessary code and instructions to portmgr and secteam about how to set up portsnap building and mirroring. Based on the code which will be going into the base system, it shouldn't be evident that I had any involvement at all. :-) Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 11:59:30 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF0CE16A420; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:59:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from simon@zaphod.nitro.dk) Received: from zaphod.nitro.dk (port324.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk [212.242.113.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620E044229; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:59:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from simon@zaphod.nitro.dk) Received: by zaphod.nitro.dk (Postfix, from userid 3000) id 0CFD011B89; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:59:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:59:27 +0200 From: "Simon L. Nielsen" To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20050807115927.GA851@zaphod.nitro.dk> References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <20050806092232.GA850@zaphod.nitro.dk> <42F489DC.1080400@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42F489DC.1080400@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:59:30 -0000 --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2005.08.06 02:58:52 -0700, Colin Percival wrote: > Simon L. Nielsen wrote: > > On 2005.08.06 01:59:57 -0700, Colin Percival wrote: > >>Is this a reasonable excuse for violating hier(7) and putting the > >>compressed snapshot into /usr/portsnap? For reference, the port keeps > >>the snapshot in /usr/local/portsnap. > >=20 > > Wouldn't it make sense to put in on /var, and if people do not have > > enough space there, they can just symlink the portsnap directory to a > > location that has enough space? >=20 > Probably... I'm just worried about inexperienced FreeBSD users who would > see an error message about /var being full and not know what to do about > it. I don't really think that is a big problem, especially if the default /var size is increased so it doesn't happen to total novices using default install. If it turns out the be a problem, I think it would be better to have portsnap warn the users when /var runs full e.g. with a URL to the FAQ that describes how to work around the problem. Anyway, that's just my 0.02 $LOCAL_CURRENCY. --=20 Simon L. Nielsen --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9fefh9pcDSc1mlERAlThAJ9A4IDVrYbI0ncO1CUlOVKCULYGlACgttvH uybYX1IH4gMqgjB3UB1p9Zg= =hP31 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 12:45:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 772CA16A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:45:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.allbsd.org (vlsi00.si.noda.tus.ac.jp [133.31.130.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE37844129; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:45:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from delta.allbsd.org (p13123-adsau14honb8-acca.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp [220.106.49.123]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.allbsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j77Cj2Oc007389; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:45:03 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (alph.allbsd.org [192.168.0.10]) by delta.allbsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j77CVtPn000159; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:31:56 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 21:12:40 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> To: cperciva@FreeBSD.org From: Hiroki Sato In-Reply-To: <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org> References: <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org> X-PGPkey-fingerprint: BDB3 443F A5DD B3D0 A530 FFD7 4F2C D3D8 2793 CF2D X-Mailer: Mew version 4.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="--Security_Multipart(Sun_Aug__7_21_12_40_2005_478)--" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on gatekeeper.allbsd.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: dougb@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:45:06 -0000 ----Security_Multipart(Sun_Aug__7_21_12_40_2005_478)-- Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Colin Percival wrote in <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org>: cp> Hiroki Sato wrote: cp> > Is the server-side part of portsnap available now? cp> cp> There is code for creating a portsnap mirror, but I don't think you really cp> want that... cp> cp> > I am interested in cp> > mirroring since portsnap.daemonology.net is too far from my box in Japan. cp> cp> ... instead, assuming that "too far" really means "too slow", try running cp> the latest version of portsnap from the ports tree (version 0.9.4) using cp> the -x option. That will enable "experimental" pipelined http code which cp> speeds up operation by a factor of 10 or more. I meant "too far" as "low bandwidth and intermediate nodes down sometimes". Some areas, especially in Asian countries, needs expensive connection fee for international connection as delphij pointed out. Also, portsnap is useful in a local network as CVSup is if the server-side program is available, IMHO. So, I would like the server-side bits to be imported if portsnap will be in the base system. -- | Hiroki SATO ----Security_Multipart(Sun_Aug__7_21_12_40_2005_478)-- Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBC9fq6TyzT2CeTzy0RAnYuAKCQk7AyRUQsjOkglzaiTavjD3XRXQCgqu8z O1+v5s+e6ahfR0UaQfIiHdI= =k9hs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----Security_Multipart(Sun_Aug__7_21_12_40_2005_478)---- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 12:53:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F2EA16A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:53:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from krion@voodoo.oberon.net) Received: from voodoo.oberon.net (voodoo.oberon.net [212.118.165.100]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B1244122; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:53:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from krion@voodoo.oberon.net) Received: from krion by voodoo.oberon.net with local (Exim 4.52 (FreeBSD)) id 1E1kex-000Bt5-HW; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 14:53:47 +0200 Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 14:53:47 +0200 From: Kirill Ponomarew To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20050807125347.GA43837@voodoo.oberon.net> References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <42F59AA8.2030605@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42F59AA8.2030605@freebsd.org> X-NCC-Regid: de.oberon X-NIC-HDL: KP869-RIPE Keywords: 579279786 Cc: Jeremy Messenger , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:53:50 -0000 On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 10:22:48PM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: > Jeremy Messenger wrote: > > Will portsnap improvement on to not delete any unoffical ports? I have > > about 15 unoffical ports here in local machine and they are living in > > /usr/ports for other tools' sake like portupgrade/pkgdb. I have never > > use it, but I read in the bottom of http://www.daemonology.net/portsnap/ . > > Portsnap will not remove any ports which it doesn't know about. Portsnap > will only remove local modifications when they are in a port or infrastructure > file (e.g., Mk/*) which portsnap is updating to a newer version. Is portsnap also immune to Makefile.inc[local] and doesn't delete them during update ? -Kirill From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 13:00:31 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD3D16A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:00:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd3mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C4A243D48; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:00:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr2so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.213]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00HF4RT0DM60@l-daemon>; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 06:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd4mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU008RFRT0X1E0@pd4mr2so.prod.shaw.ca>; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 06:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKU0020IRSZS1@l-daemon>; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 06:53:23 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 05:53:23 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> To: Hiroki Sato Message-id: <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org> <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 13:00:31 -0000 Hiroki Sato wrote: > I meant "too far" as "low bandwidth and intermediate nodes down sometimes". Portsnap runs over HTTP, and respects the HTTP_PROXY environment variable. If I understand your concern, using a local HTTP proxy would be the best option, since it would use far less bandwidth than actually mirroring everything. > So, I would like the server-side bits to be imported if portsnap will > be in the base system. By "server-side", do you mean a) The code which builds the portsnap files, b) The code which mirrors them, or c) The web server (Apache) which actually sits on port 80 and communicates with the portsnap client? Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 13:04:45 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975FB16A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:04:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3058E43D48 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:04:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr5so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.50]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00C91S5DCQ90@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 07:00:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd4mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00HT2S5DAMB0@pd4mr5so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 07:00:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKU0060SS5BRJ@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 07:00:48 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 06:00:47 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807125347.GA43837@voodoo.oberon.net> To: Kirill Ponomarew Message-id: <42F605FF.7020403@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <42F59AA8.2030605@freebsd.org> <20050807125347.GA43837@voodoo.oberon.net> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: Jeremy Messenger , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 13:04:45 -0000 Kirill Ponomarew wrote: > On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 10:22:48PM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: >>Portsnap will not remove any ports which it doesn't know about. Portsnap >>will only remove local modifications when they are in a port or infrastructure >>file (e.g., Mk/*) which portsnap is updating to a newer version. > > Is portsnap also immune to Makefile.inc[local] and doesn't delete > them during update ? Portsnap only removes files or directories if they are in the way. If ports/foo/bar doesn't exist in the ports tree, then portsnap will not touch /usr/ports/foo/bar. If ports/fizzle/baz exists in the ports tree, then portsnap will delete /usr/ports/fizzle/baz the next time that "portsnap extract" is executed (which shouldn't happen very often, since that extracts a complete new ports tree) or after the next time that ports/fizzle/baz is updated in the ports tree. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 13:25:01 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E321416A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:25:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nike_d@cytexbg.com) Received: from mail.interbgc.com (mx01.interbgc.com [217.9.224.225]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D283F43D45 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:25:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nike_d@cytexbg.com) Received: (qmail 53926 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2005 13:24:58 -0000 Received: from nike_d@cytexbg.com by keeper.interbgc.com by uid 1002 with qmail-scanner-1.14 (uvscan: v4.2.40/v4374. spamassassin: 2.63. Clear:SA:0(-2.6/8.0):. Processed in 2.144101 secs); 07 Aug 2005 13:24:58 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=8.0 Received: from 213-240-205-57.1697748.ddns.cablebg.net (HELO tormentor.totalterror.net) (213.240.205.57) by mx01.interbgc.com with SMTP; 7 Aug 2005 13:24:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 69744 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2005 13:24:55 -0000 Received: from qmail by qscan (mail filter); 7 Aug 2005 13:24:55 +0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.0.3?) (10.0.0.3) by tormentor.totalterror.net with SMTP; 7 Aug 2005 13:24:55 -0000 Message-ID: <42F60BAE.9070502@cytexbg.com> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:25:02 +0300 From: Niki Denev User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <20050806112118.GA7708@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> <20050806143812.GA76296@over-yonder.net> <42F4F446.90304@freebsd.org> <42F4F979.7080705@gamersimpact.com> In-Reply-To: <42F4F979.7080705@gamersimpact.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 13:25:02 -0000 Ryan Sommers wrote: > I would agree, even without portsnap. With things like MySQL using > /var/db (if I remember) as the default it might be a way to avoid a few > more mails to questions@ without impacting the normal user. And let's not forget the default qmail queue location "/var/qmail/queue" :) > Hard drives are pennies to the GB and always getting cheaper; I've been > making 1-5gb /var's for awhile even on non-database servers just to have > a little more wiggle room for logs. > > As a side note, I've always wished we had a selectable list of "auto" > configure options, database server, web-server, minimalist, etc. > From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 14:12:35 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D887E16A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 14:12:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.allbsd.org (vlsi00.si.noda.tus.ac.jp [133.31.130.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 241A54405B; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 14:12:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from delta.allbsd.org (p13123-adsau14honb8-acca.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp [220.106.49.123]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.allbsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j77ECVEd008264; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:12:32 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (alph.allbsd.org [192.168.0.10]) by delta.allbsd.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j77EC75t000580; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:12:08 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from hrs@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 23:11:25 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20050807.231125.26489231.hrs@allbsd.org> To: cperciva@FreeBSD.org From: Hiroki Sato In-Reply-To: <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org> References: <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org> <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org> X-PGPkey-fingerprint: BDB3 443F A5DD B3D0 A530 FFD7 4F2C D3D8 2793 CF2D X-Mailer: Mew version 4.2.52 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="--Security_Multipart(Sun_Aug__7_23_11_25_2005_360)--" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on gatekeeper.allbsd.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 14:12:36 -0000 ----Security_Multipart(Sun_Aug__7_23_11_25_2005_360)-- Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Colin Percival wrote in <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org>: cp> Hiroki Sato wrote: cp> > So, I would like the server-side bits to be imported if portsnap will cp> > be in the base system. cp> cp> By "server-side", do you mean cp> a) The code which builds the portsnap files, cp> b) The code which mirrors them, or cp> c) The web server (Apache) which actually sits on port 80 and cp> communicates with the portsnap client? a) and b). -- | Hiroki SATO ----Security_Multipart(Sun_Aug__7_23_11_25_2005_360)-- Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBC9haPTyzT2CeTzy0RAlzHAJ9ktCbZt/BgMujx02Pc8IEj+lidbACg09T7 a97o4kT06YKXighG/jpdcM0= =saJG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----Security_Multipart(Sun_Aug__7_23_11_25_2005_360)---- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 6 18:16:25 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 439A416A41F; Sat, 6 Aug 2005 18:16:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3B6A43D45; Sat, 6 Aug 2005 18:16:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from p54A3D0EB.dip.t-dialin.net [84.163.208.235] (helo=donor.laier.local) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML2Dk-1E1TDa2rZK-0000DT; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 20:16:22 +0200 From: Max Laier To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 20:16:12 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F4F446.90304@freebsd.org> <42F4F979.7080705@gamersimpact.com> In-Reply-To: <42F4F979.7080705@gamersimpact.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart3138788.D0vEBXQMaH"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200508062016.20510.max@love2party.net> X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:61c499deaeeba3ba5be80f48ecc83056 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 14:13:51 +0000 Cc: Ryan Sommers , soc-andrew@freebsd.org, Colin Percival Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 18:16:25 -0000 --nextPart3138788.D0vEBXQMaH Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Saturday 06 August 2005 19:55, Ryan Sommers wrote: > Colin Percival wrote: > > Your "rather oldish and rather smallish" /var is four times the default > > size used in sysinstall (256MB is used for /, /tmp, and /var if you have > > a large enough drive). This default results in having ~32000 inodes. > > > > I wonder if it's time to increase the default size of /var again. > > I would agree, even without portsnap. With things like MySQL using > /var/db (if I remember) as the default it might be a way to avoid a few > more mails to questions@ without impacting the normal user. > > Hard drives are pennies to the GB and always getting cheaper; I've been > making 1-5gb /var's for awhile even on non-database servers just to have > a little more wiggle room for logs. > > As a side note, I've always wished we had a selectable list of "auto" > configure options, database server, web-server, minimalist, etc. Indeed - maybe that's a good TODO for the BSDInstaller integration? =2D-=20 /"\ Best regards, | mlaier@freebsd.org \ / Max Laier | ICQ #67774661 X http://pf4freebsd.love2party.net/ | mlaier@EFnet / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News --nextPart3138788.D0vEBXQMaH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBC9P50XyyEoT62BG0RArlUAJ0aI7r0nsFdzJi/rUHYiRul3yUQhgCfWUJa TgI8BdzNH4eNRZetKrWWHAk= =Y9H3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart3138788.D0vEBXQMaH-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 10:24:38 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C416716A421; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:24:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: from tarsier.geekcn.org (tarsier.geekcn.org [210.51.165.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6403944096; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 09:56:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net (unknown [219.239.99.7]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tarsier.geekcn.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F1BEB4F03; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:56:53 +0800 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A8E131872; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:56:51 +0800 (CST) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (beastie.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 54124-01; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:56:45 +0800 (CST) Received: by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B8EE613146F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:56:44 +0800 (CST) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:56:44 +0800 From: Xin LI To: Hiroki Sato Message-ID: <20050807095644.GA54096@frontfree.net> References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-GPG-key-ID/Fingerprint: 0xCAEEB8C0 / 43B8 B703 B8DD 0231 B333 DC28 39FB 93A0 CAEE B8C0 X-GPG-Public-Key: http://www.delphij.net/delphij.asc X-Operating-System: FreeBSD beastie.frontfree.net 5.4-RELEASE-p6 FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE-p6 #4: Thu Jul 28 10:59:26 CST 2005 delphij@beastie.frontfree.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BEASTIE i386 X-URL: http://www.delphij.net X-By: delphij@beastie.frontfree.net X-Location: Beijing, China X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at frontfree.net X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 14:13:51 +0000 Cc: dougb@FreeBSD.org, cperciva@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:24:39 -0000 --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 03:34:25PM +0900, Hiroki Sato wrote: > Is the server-side part of portsnap available now? I am interested in > mirroring since portsnap.daemonology.net is too far from my box in Japan. So do I would like to ask the same question. It would be very important to set up mirror in the mainland China, as the network here is divided into three networks, with poor interconnection. Moreover, many universities will have to pay expensive bandwidth fee if the only server is not located in the mainland China, which is quite discouraging when you advocate something in the universities. Cheers, --=20 Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ See complete headers for GPG key and other information. --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9drc/cVsHxFZiIoRAt2LAJ9NvL3IReV47+P69niOAkXFH3gzDACfcSS2 Ow7wmGJIEtyHJVxNaw/7RoQ= =ahDv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 14:42:53 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 105C316A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 14:42:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A60BD43D45; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 14:42:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd3mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr6so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.21]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00372VZ5X160@l-daemon>; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 08:23:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd3mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00A2WVZ5XNC0@pd3mr6so.prod.shaw.ca>; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 08:23:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00M25VZ4WL@l-daemon>; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 08:23:29 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 07:23:28 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807.231125.26489231.hrs@allbsd.org> To: Hiroki Sato Message-id: <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org> <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org> <20050807.231125.26489231.hrs@allbsd.org> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 14:42:53 -0000 Hiroki Sato wrote: > Colin Percival wrote: > cp> Hiroki Sato wrote: > cp> > So, I would like the server-side bits to be imported if portsnap will > cp> > be in the base system. > cp> > cp> By "server-side", do you mean > cp> a) The code which builds the portsnap files, > cp> b) The code which mirrors them, or > cp> c) The web server (Apache) which actually sits on port 80 and > cp> communicates with the portsnap client? > > a) and b). Those don't belong in src, but I could put them into the projects repo if people really want them. I was planning on just providing them to portmgr and secteam since there's no reason for anyone to be running their own portsnap builds, very little reason for anyone to be running a portsnap mirror unless it's a public mirror, and my experience with FreeBSD Update is that making code available will result in people trying to use it even if they really shouldn't be using it. (I've had many email exchanges about FreeBSD Update which basically ran "I can't get the FreeBSD Update server code to work, help!", "Why do you want to run the FreeBSD Update server code?", "Uhh... I have no idea. I'll just download the client and use the updates you're building.") Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 15:49:04 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5A716A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 15:49:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 560D243D45 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 15:49:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd5mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr5so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.181]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU001KAZQ7TB90@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:44:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd5mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00HJ9ZQ7CWF0@pd5mr5so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:44:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKU00E55ZQ7PV@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:44:31 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 08:44:31 -0700 From: Colin Percival To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Message-id: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Subject: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 15:49:04 -0000 I've been told by a committer that there hasn't been enough discussion about the merits of adding portsnap to the base system. The basic summary, for anyone who didn't read yesterday's thread, is that portsnap is a secure, easy to use, fast, low-bandwidth, and lightweight way to keep the ports tree up to date. It is currently used by about 2000 systems each week (based on my server logs; and increasing at a rate of about 50% per month). The feedback I've had from users has been universally glowing, aside from the complaints that it really should be in the base system already. Portsnap is not a complete replacement for CVSup -- it only handles ports, and it only handles the tree, not the repo -- but it is very good at doing the job it is designed for. Discuss. Unless I hear any complaints, I'm going to commit the following patch tomorrow: http://www.daemonology.net/tmp/portsnap-base.diff Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 16:04:55 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D684316A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:04:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.3.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C92443D45; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:04:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kweetal.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 182F013B6A2; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:04:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from kweetal.tue.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (kweetal.tue.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 33071-07; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:04:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (pcwin002.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.72]) by kweetal.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D2113B7D8; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:04:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from stijn@localhost) by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j77G4qDm080426; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:04:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stijn) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:04:52 +0200 From: Stijn Hoop To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20050807160452.GF70957@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org> <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org> <20050807.231125.26489231.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Bright-Idea: Let's abolish HTML mail! X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tue.nl Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:04:56 -0000 On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 07:23:28AM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: > Hiroki Sato wrote: > > Colin Percival wrote: > > cp> Hiroki Sato wrote: > > cp> > So, I would like the server-side bits to be imported if portsnap will > > cp> > be in the base system. > > cp> > > cp> By "server-side", do you mean > > cp> a) The code which builds the portsnap files, > > cp> b) The code which mirrors them, or > > cp> c) The web server (Apache) which actually sits on port 80 and > > cp> communicates with the portsnap client? > > > > a) and b). > > Those don't belong in src, but I could put them into the projects repo > if people really want them. Not that I am going to do any such thing, but why prevent people from providing their own binaries? Maybe they want to distribute their own ports tree to an internal cluster using portsnap, or keep local modifications to FreeBSD and distribute those using FreeBSD Update. Having just the client in the system feels kind of weird to me. Note that adding the server to base seems like overkill to me but in ports or in projects would do fine in such cases I guess. --Stijn -- "Well," Brahma said, "even after ten thousand explanations, a fool is no wiser, but an intelligent man requires only two thousand five hundred." -- The Mahabharata. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 16:08:03 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D361916A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:08:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24F6643D45; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:08:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77G5Ijo081439; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:05:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20050807.100622.54623722.imp@bsdimp.com> To: cperciva@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> References: <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org> <20050807.231125.26489231.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:05:18 -0600 (MDT) Cc: hrs@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:08:04 -0000 In message: <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> Colin Percival writes: : Hiroki Sato wrote: : > Colin Percival wrote: : > cp> Hiroki Sato wrote: : > cp> > So, I would like the server-side bits to be imported if portsnap will : > cp> > be in the base system. : > cp> : > cp> By "server-side", do you mean : > cp> a) The code which builds the portsnap files, : > cp> b) The code which mirrors them, or : > cp> c) The web server (Apache) which actually sits on port 80 and : > cp> communicates with the portsnap client? : > : > a) and b). : : Those don't belong in src, but I could put them into the projects repo : if people really want them. I was planning on just providing them to : portmgr and secteam since there's no reason for anyone to be running : their own portsnap builds, Acutally, there are plenty of reasons. I've worked at places that did similar things to portsnap to create standard packages that were installed on all the machines of a certain type (workstation, server, etc). I can easily see large organizations wanting to do this. : very little reason for anyone to be running : a portsnap mirror unless it's a public mirror, Our experience with cvsup would suggest otherwise. Many places with large numbers or even small numbers of machines run cvsup mirrors that are private. I expect that universities will want to run mirrors that they might not want non-students accessing (eg, internal bandwidth is free, external is expensive). : and my experience with : FreeBSD Update is that making code available will result in people : trying to use it even if they really shouldn't be using it. That's the chance you take with open source. :-) : (I've had : many email exchanges about FreeBSD Update which basically ran "I can't : get the FreeBSD Update server code to work, help!", "Why do you want : to run the FreeBSD Update server code?", "Uhh... I have no idea. I'll : just download the client and use the updates you're building.") The world is full of idoits. It is also full of smart people who do smart things with technology. Don't let the idoits ruin it for the rest of us. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 16:09:09 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D31A116A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:09:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A57743D48 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:09:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mr8so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr8so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.101]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV001H50NOSVC0@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:04:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd4mr8so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV00CY00NNHUB0@pd4mr8so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:04:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKV00C1S0NMDG@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:04:35 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:04:35 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807.100211.20316746.imp@bsdimp.com> To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-id: <42F63113.5020600@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org> <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> <20050807.100211.20316746.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:09:09 -0000 M. Warner Losh wrote: > However, one possible gotcha in setting this up is licensing. Do you > know that your distribution of binary snapshot complies with the GPL > which requires that you also provide the sources when you do this? > The project already has some issues with GPLd ports when it builds > binaries. Are distfiles part of portsnap? If so, then you are safe > for the standard licenses... Huh? Isn't the ports tree BSD-licensed? Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 16:12:36 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107A116A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:12:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd2mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 405B743D48 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:12:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd5mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr5so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.181]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV001520Z8RP00@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd5mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV00MSA0Z8OI10@pd5mr5so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKV00I2X0Z6GT@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:11:31 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:11:31 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807160452.GF70957@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> To: Stijn Hoop Message-id: <42F632B3.90704@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org> <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org> <20050807.231125.26489231.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> <20050807160452.GF70957@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:12:36 -0000 Stijn Hoop wrote: > On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 07:23:28AM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: >>Those don't belong in src, but I could put them into the projects repo >>if people really want them. > > Not that I am going to do any such thing, but why prevent people from > providing their own binaries? Maybe they want to distribute their own > ports tree to an internal cluster using portsnap Two reasons come to mind: First, the portsnap chain of security starts with running cvsup to cvsup-master through a tunnel to freefall... a non-committer wouldn't be able to do that. Second, it would be far more efficient for this hypothetical user to keep their modifications as a local set of patches which were applied post-portsnap on individual machines. In any event, those are fairly irrelevant: I'm not going to prevent people from running their own portsnap builds, and if someone wants the code they can have it. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 16:16:51 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CAD016A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:16:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31DB943D45; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:16:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77GGgkj081511; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:16:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:17:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20050807.101746.68985623.imp@bsdimp.com> To: cperciva@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> References: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:16:42 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:16:51 -0000 In message: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> Colin Percival writes: : I've been told by a committer that there hasn't been enough : discussion about the merits of adding portsnap to the base : system. : : The basic summary, for anyone who didn't read yesterday's : thread, is that portsnap is a secure, easy to use, fast, : low-bandwidth, and lightweight way to keep the ports tree : up to date. It is currently used by about 2000 systems each : week (based on my server logs; and increasing at a rate of : about 50% per month). The feedback I've had from users has : been universally glowing, aside from the complaints that it : really should be in the base system already. : : Portsnap is not a complete replacement for CVSup -- it only : handles ports, and it only handles the tree, not the repo -- : but it is very good at doing the job it is designed for. : : Discuss. I'm confused. Earlier in this thread it looked like someone said it distributed binaries. Now this seems to indicate it is just cvsup in checkout mode. Which is it? And when posting questions like this, it is usually good to include pointers to documentation (although the diff below does contain the man pages). : Unless I hear any complaints, I'm going to commit the following : patch tomorrow: : http://www.daemonology.net/tmp/portsnap-base.diff Is there some reason you've reinvated fetch as well? What does phttpget do that fetch(1) or fetch(3) doesn't? The only thing that looks like it might is pipelining mode, which would be better in the base fetch program, imho. neither make_index nor phttpget have man pages. What does this buy you over cvsup/cvsupd? Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 16:19:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B1A16A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:19:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1A343D49 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:19:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr2so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.213]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV001SV13OT9D0@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd4mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV008BS13OVO70@pd4mr2so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKV00I4P13MGT@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:14:11 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807.100622.54623722.imp@bsdimp.com> To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-id: <42F63353.7030707@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org> <20050807.231125.26489231.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> <20050807.100622.54623722.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:19:24 -0000 M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> > Colin Percival writes: > : very little reason for anyone to be running > : a portsnap mirror unless it's a public mirror, > > Our experience with cvsup would suggest otherwise. Many places with > large numbers or even small numbers of machines run cvsup mirrors that > are private. I expect that universities will want to run mirrors that > they might not want non-students accessing (eg, internal bandwidth is > free, external is expensive). Portsnap != CVSup. In particular, an HTTP proxy which is used by five hundred users running portsnap will use less bandwidth than a portsnap mirror. The "right" solution for nearly all organizations is a caching HTTP proxy. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 16:48:58 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40D1E16A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:48:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD1D644133; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:48:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [192.168.254.11] (junior.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77H0nZC007176; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:00:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <42F63B6D.3080909@samsco.org> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:48:45 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050615 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Warner Losh" References: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> <20050807.101746.68985623.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20050807.101746.68985623.imp@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=3.8 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: cperciva@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:48:58 -0000 M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> > Colin Percival writes: > : I've been told by a committer that there hasn't been enough > : discussion about the merits of adding portsnap to the base > : system. > : > : The basic summary, for anyone who didn't read yesterday's > : thread, is that portsnap is a secure, easy to use, fast, > : low-bandwidth, and lightweight way to keep the ports tree > : up to date. It is currently used by about 2000 systems each > : week (based on my server logs; and increasing at a rate of > : about 50% per month). The feedback I've had from users has > : been universally glowing, aside from the complaints that it > : really should be in the base system already. > : > : Portsnap is not a complete replacement for CVSup -- it only > : handles ports, and it only handles the tree, not the repo -- > : but it is very good at doing the job it is designed for. > : > : Discuss. > > I'm confused. Earlier in this thread it looked like someone said it > distributed binaries. Now this seems to indicate it is just cvsup in > checkout mode. Which is it? And when posting questions like this, it > is usually good to include pointers to documentation (although the > diff below does contain the man pages). > > : Unless I hear any complaints, I'm going to commit the following > : patch tomorrow: > : http://www.daemonology.net/tmp/portsnap-base.diff > > Is there some reason you've reinvated fetch as well? What does > phttpget do that fetch(1) or fetch(3) doesn't? The only thing that > looks like it might is pipelining mode, which would be better in the > base fetch program, imho. > > neither make_index nor phttpget have man pages. > > What does this buy you over cvsup/cvsupd? > > Warner I'll save Colin from repeating the answer to this for the millionth time. 1. security 2. much lower bandwidth 3. why are you quibbling over a feature that is 40k, has already been well tested, and has the support and desires of users? If you're really concerned about confusion and duplication, I see plenty of much more worthy opportunities in the pccard/cardbus, natm/patm/hatm, etc spaces. Scott From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 17:04:56 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA98916A43D for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:04:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd3mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFB3543F66 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:36:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mr3so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr3so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.214]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV0003O1RZ0N90@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd4mr3so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV0020W1RZU0L0@pd4mr3so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKV0060Z1RZMA@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:28:46 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807.101746.68985623.imp@bsdimp.com> To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-id: <42F636BE.3020906@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> <20050807.101746.68985623.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 17:04:56 -0000 M. Warner Losh wrote: > I'm confused. Earlier in this thread it looked like someone said it > distributed binaries. If someone said that, they were confused. > Now this seems to indicate it is just cvsup in > checkout mode. Which is it? CVSup in checkout mode, sort of. Portsnap works using a compressed snapshot of the ports tree, which is then used to update /usr/ports, and also provides INDEX files; but the job it replaces is basically that of cvsup in checkout mode. > And when posting questions like this, it > is usually good to include pointers to documentation (although the > diff below does contain the man pages). In addition to the man pages, there are some details at http://www.daemonology.net/portsnap/ > Is there some reason you've reinvated fetch as well? What does > phttpget do that fetch(1) or fetch(3) doesn't? The only thing that > looks like it might is pipelining mode, which would be better in the > base fetch program, imho. Yes, pipelined HTTP. Basically, I spent six months on-and-off, and at least two weeks of actual work, trying to fit pipelined HTTP into fetch(3)... but the design of that library is all around the idea of fetching a single file at once. In the end I gave up and wrote my own code (phttpget) in under 24 hours. > neither make_index nor phttpget have man pages. They are both installed in /usr/libexec and only intended to be used by portsnap. I didn't think man pages were necessary. > What does this buy you over cvsup/cvsupd? Security. Speed. Ease of use. Light weight. A reduction in bandwidth. The ability to pass through most firewalls. The ability to utilize caching HTTP proxies. The replacement of a heavyweight custom server daemon with your favourite lightweight HTTP server. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 17:21:53 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6954C16A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:21:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from maxim@macomnet.ru) Received: from mp2.macomnet.net (mp2.macomnet.net [195.128.64.6]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B74F143D48; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:21:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from maxim@macomnet.ru) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mp2.macomnet.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77HLZfS027583; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:21:35 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from maxim@macomnet.ru) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:21:35 +0400 (MSD) From: Maxim Konovalov To: Colin Percival In-Reply-To: <42F636BE.3020906@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <20050807211950.X27563@mp2.macomnet.net> References: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> <20050807.101746.68985623.imp@bsdimp.com> <42F636BE.3020906@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 17:21:53 -0000 Hi, [...] > CVSup in checkout mode, sort of. Portsnap works using a compressed > snapshot of the ports tree, which is then used to update /usr/ports, > and also provides INDEX files; but the job it replaces is basically > that of cvsup in checkout mode. Sorry my ignorance but what's about the server side? Does portsnap use an existent ftp|www|cvsupd infrastructure or we need to build a new one? -- Maxim Konovalov From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 17:22:52 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DB116A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:22:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E81D43D48; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:22:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77HLBSB082147; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:21:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20050807.112215.83519787.imp@bsdimp.com> To: cperciva@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <42F63113.5020600@freebsd.org> References: <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> <20050807.100211.20316746.imp@bsdimp.com> <42F63113.5020600@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 17:22:52 -0000 In message: <42F63113.5020600@freebsd.org> Colin Percival writes: : M. Warner Losh wrote: : > However, one possible gotcha in setting this up is licensing. Do you : > know that your distribution of binary snapshot complies with the GPL : > which requires that you also provide the sources when you do this? : > The project already has some issues with GPLd ports when it builds : > binaries. Are distfiles part of portsnap? If so, then you are safe : > for the standard licenses... : : Huh? Isn't the ports tree BSD-licensed? I keep seeing snapshots and build. I still don't know if this distributes sources or binaries. My concern was if it distributed binaries. The tree itself has no license, but is presuemed to be BSD-license. The actual binaries built from the tree, however, have a zillion different licenses... Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 17:30:04 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C145116A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:30:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6356843D49; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:30:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 60A5E2A6C; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:30:03 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:30:03 -0500 To: "Simon L. Nielsen" Message-ID: <20050807173003.GA7290@soaustin.net> References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <20050806092232.GA850@zaphod.nitro.dk> <42F489DC.1080400@freebsd.org> <20050807115927.GA851@zaphod.nitro.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050807115927.GA851@zaphod.nitro.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Cc: Colin Percival , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 17:30:04 -0000 On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 01:59:27PM +0200, Simon L. Nielsen wrote: > I don't really think that is a big problem, especially if the default > /var size is increased so it doesn't happen to total novices using > default install. > > If it turns out the be a problem, I think it would be better to have > portsnap warn the users when /var runs full e.g. with a URL to the FAQ > that describes how to work around the problem. I think we bought the /var size problem years ago, whenever the first use of /var/db was made. I don't think portsnap is going to be the make-or-break deal that having e.g. the default mysql location is -- certainly not enough to break with this standard usage. Now, whether we can do a better job with the defaults, and educating users, is another story :) mcl From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 17:31:31 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C719616A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:31:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd2mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669BE43D45 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:31:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd5mr7so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr7so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.183]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV001UC4HIR4A0@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd5mr7so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV000PK4HIIF00@pd5mr7so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKV00E164HHZF@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:27:17 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807211950.X27563@mp2.macomnet.net> To: Maxim Konovalov Message-id: <42F64475.5060308@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> <20050807.101746.68985623.imp@bsdimp.com> <42F636BE.3020906@freebsd.org> <20050807211950.X27563@mp2.macomnet.net> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 17:31:31 -0000 Maxim Konovalov wrote: > Sorry my ignorance but what's about the server side? Does portsnap > use an existent ftp|www|cvsupd infrastructure or we need to build a > new one? Portsnap uses a new network of http servers (although it could intersect with existing www servers). Building this network isn't likely to be a problem: With the two servers currently in use, roughly 30000 users can be supported (based on very conservative extrapolation of the existing bandwidth and cpu load), and I've already had three other mirrors offered. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 17:33:21 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95F5216A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:33:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33D1743D48 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:33:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mr3so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr3so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.214]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV00GZT4NCMB10@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:30:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd4mr3so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV00JF34NCHY90@pd4mr3so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:30:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKV00F1T4NBJV@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:30:48 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:30:47 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807.112215.83519787.imp@bsdimp.com> To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-id: <42F64547.9010903@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> <20050807.100211.20316746.imp@bsdimp.com> <42F63113.5020600@freebsd.org> <20050807.112215.83519787.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 17:33:21 -0000 M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <42F63113.5020600@freebsd.org> > Colin Percival writes: > : Huh? Isn't the ports tree BSD-licensed? > > I keep seeing snapshots and build. I still don't know if this > distributes sources or binaries. My concern was if it distributed > binaries. Portsnap distributes the ports tree. The word "build" in the context of portsnap refers to the process of taking the ports tree, generating "raw" describes files (from which INDEX files are later "cooked" at the client side), and squishing everything into the various-sized boxes which constitute the format in which portsnap distributes everything. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 17:49:58 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC88416A420; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:49:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68ED943D45; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:49:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [192.168.254.11] (junior.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77I1uuc007460; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:01:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <42F649C1.4050009@samsco.org> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:49:53 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050615 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Linimon References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <20050806092232.GA850@zaphod.nitro.dk> <42F489DC.1080400@freebsd.org> <20050807115927.GA851@zaphod.nitro.dk> <20050807173003.GA7290@soaustin.net> In-Reply-To: <20050807173003.GA7290@soaustin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=3.8 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: Colin Percival , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 17:49:59 -0000 Mark Linimon wrote: > On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 01:59:27PM +0200, Simon L. Nielsen wrote: > >>I don't really think that is a big problem, especially if the default >>/var size is increased so it doesn't happen to total novices using >>default install. >> >>If it turns out the be a problem, I think it would be better to have >>portsnap warn the users when /var runs full e.g. with a URL to the FAQ >>that describes how to work around the problem. > > > I think we bought the /var size problem years ago, whenever the first > use of /var/db was made. I don't think portsnap is going to be the > make-or-break deal that having e.g. the default mysql location is -- > certainly not enough to break with this standard usage. > > Now, whether we can do a better job with the defaults, and educating > users, is another story :) > > mcl We are already in agreement that the default size of /var will grow in sysinstall, the only thing left is deciding if it should grow for future use also (i.e. make it big enough to actually hold a crashdump). I think that portsnap is a very good feature and I'm ready to tout it for the 6.0 release. The technical problems, such as they are, are pretty insignificant and are just about solved. I think that we are pretty darn lucky to have someone with both the skills and motivation working on adding features that benefit our users. Scott From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 18:25:10 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A800E16A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:25:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: from tarsier.geekcn.org (tarsier.geekcn.org [210.51.165.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42FDA43F4B; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:25:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net (unknown [219.239.99.7]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tarsier.geekcn.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09186EB0A8C; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:25:01 +0800 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCFC513893A; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:24:59 +0800 (CST) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (beastie.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 60486-17; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:24:52 +0800 (CST) Received: by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6EB431387CC; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:24:51 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:24:51 +0800 From: Xin LI To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20050807182451.GB61057@frontfree.net> References: <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org> <20050807.231125.26489231.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> <20050807.100622.54623722.imp@bsdimp.com> <42F63353.7030707@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+g7M9IMkV8truYOl" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42F63353.7030707@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-GPG-key-ID/Fingerprint: 0xCAEEB8C0 / 43B8 B703 B8DD 0231 B333 DC28 39FB 93A0 CAEE B8C0 X-GPG-Public-Key: http://www.delphij.net/delphij.asc X-Operating-System: FreeBSD beastie.frontfree.net 5.4-RELEASE-p6 FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE-p6 #4: Thu Jul 28 10:59:26 CST 2005 delphij@beastie.frontfree.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BEASTIE i386 X-URL: http://www.delphij.net X-By: delphij@beastie.frontfree.net X-Location: Beijing, China X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at frontfree.net Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 18:25:10 -0000 --+g7M9IMkV8truYOl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 09:14:11AM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: > M. Warner Losh wrote: > > In message: <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> > > Colin Percival writes: > > : very little reason for anyone to be running > > : a portsnap mirror unless it's a public mirror, > >=20 > > Our experience with cvsup would suggest otherwise. Many places with > > large numbers or even small numbers of machines run cvsup mirrors that > > are private. I expect that universities will want to run mirrors that > > they might not want non-students accessing (eg, internal bandwidth is > > free, external is expensive). >=20 > Portsnap !=3D CVSup. In particular, an HTTP proxy which is used by five > hundred users running portsnap will use less bandwidth than a portsnap > mirror. The "right" solution for nearly all organizations is a caching > HTTP proxy. I must say that HTTP proxy-able is the 1st reason why I like portsnap. There are so many people asking "Hey, how can I break the firewall that blocks cvsup connection?" Where I can only say "The only solution at this time would be to negotiate with the local network administrator" in the pre-postsnap age. Using CVSup to synchonorize CVS tree while distributing ports tree through portsnap looks quite convinent for these people. Cheers, --=20 Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ See complete headers for GPG key and other information. --+g7M9IMkV8truYOl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9lHz/cVsHxFZiIoRAuS6AJ98yt/UhDQHqVVnK1qNTNIFHJh+rwCeMtdM D6NP7a+mhpL4iEz0jZhXI1U= =qjfi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+g7M9IMkV8truYOl-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 18:27:19 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B76616A426 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:27:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd2mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3D743DF0 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:56:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd5mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr6so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.182]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV0013H5HURLE0@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd5mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV007W25HUYXI0@pd5mr6so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:49:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKV0030F5HTJW@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 11:49:05 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:49:04 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <42F646B9.7020703@samsco.org> To: Scott Long Message-id: <42F64990.4090005@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <20050806092232.GA850@zaphod.nitro.dk> <42F489DC.1080400@freebsd.org> <20050807115927.GA851@zaphod.nitro.dk> <20050807173003.GA7290@soaustin.net> <42F646B9.7020703@samsco.org> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 18:27:19 -0000 Scott Long wrote: > I think that portsnap is a very good feature and I'm ready to tout it > for the 6.0 release. The technical problems, such as they are, are > pretty insignificant and are just about solved. Umm... *shuffles feet*... I wasn't planning on having portsnap in the base system for FreeBSD 6.0. I'd rather give it a couple of months to settle in and MFC it before FreeBSD 5.5 and FreeBSD 6.1. People can always install it from the ports tree until then. Unless you really want an insta-MFC in the middle of a release freeze, of course... Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 18:27:19 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 610F116A423; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:27:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293EE43E54; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:01:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [192.168.254.11] (junior.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77IDH6L007493; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:13:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <42F64C6A.5010407@samsco.org> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:01:14 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050615 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Colin Percival References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <20050806092232.GA850@zaphod.nitro.dk> <42F489DC.1080400@freebsd.org> <20050807115927.GA851@zaphod.nitro.dk> <20050807173003.GA7290@soaustin.net> <42F646B9.7020703@samsco.org> <42F64990.4090005@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <42F64990.4090005@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=3.8 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 18:27:20 -0000 Colin Percival wrote: > Scott Long wrote: > >>I think that portsnap is a very good feature and I'm ready to tout it >>for the 6.0 release. The technical problems, such as they are, are >>pretty insignificant and are just about solved. > > > Umm... *shuffles feet*... I wasn't planning on having portsnap in the > base system for FreeBSD 6.0. I'd rather give it a couple of months to > settle in and MFC it before FreeBSD 5.5 and FreeBSD 6.1. People can > always install it from the ports tree until then. > > Unless you really want an insta-MFC in the middle of a release freeze, > of course... > > Colin Percival Ah, sorry, I'm just too eager I guess =-) Scott From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 18:27:20 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81A516A421; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:27:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: from tarsier.geekcn.org (tarsier.geekcn.org [210.51.165.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2A343F21; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:10:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net (unknown [219.239.99.7]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tarsier.geekcn.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9812CEB4EF7; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:10:28 +0800 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB0991388C5; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:10:25 +0800 (CST) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (beastie.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 60511-14; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:10:19 +0800 (CST) Received: by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CEABD1388AA; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:10:18 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:10:18 +0800 From: Xin LI To: Jeremy Messenger Message-ID: <20050807181018.GA61057@frontfree.net> References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <42F59AA8.2030605@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-GPG-key-ID/Fingerprint: 0xCAEEB8C0 / 43B8 B703 B8DD 0231 B333 DC28 39FB 93A0 CAEE B8C0 X-GPG-Public-Key: http://www.delphij.net/delphij.asc X-Operating-System: FreeBSD beastie.frontfree.net 5.4-RELEASE-p6 FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE-p6 #4: Thu Jul 28 10:59:26 CST 2005 delphij@beastie.frontfree.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BEASTIE i386 X-URL: http://www.delphij.net X-By: delphij@beastie.frontfree.net X-Location: Beijing, China X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at frontfree.net Cc: Colin Percival , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 18:27:21 -0000 --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 12:33:36AM -0500, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 00:22:48 -0500, Colin Percival = =20 > wrote: >=20 > >Jeremy Messenger wrote: > >>Will portsnap improvement on to not delete any unoffical ports? I have > >>about 15 unoffical ports here in local machine and they are living in > >>/usr/ports for other tools' sake like portupgrade/pkgdb. I have never > >>use it, but I read in the bottom of =20 > >>http://www.daemonology.net/portsnap/ . > > > >Portsnap will not remove any ports which it doesn't know about. Portsnap > >will only remove local modifications when they are in a port or =20 > >infrastructure > >file (e.g., Mk/*) which portsnap is updating to a newer version. >=20 > Good, thanks! Just a note - be careful when you are using portsnap for the first time, portsnap command "extract" will remove anything pre-exist, but as Colin said, portsnap "update" will never remove files that it is not known before. Cheers, --=20 Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ See complete headers for GPG key and other information. --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9k6K/cVsHxFZiIoRAs1MAJ9xv1FmF+9q76qdplHDXFCHve1KywCfWXJZ 79FjPAynnEdV3/VaHPUytpo= =11VN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 18:27:23 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 349C716A430; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:27:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE3A43EAB; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:04:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77I4ipP082504; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:04:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:05:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20050807.120547.56242584.imp@bsdimp.com> To: cperciva@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <42F636BE.3020906@freebsd.org> References: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> <20050807.101746.68985623.imp@bsdimp.com> <42F636BE.3020906@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:04:44 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 18:27:24 -0000 In message: <42F636BE.3020906@freebsd.org> Colin Percival writes: : > Now this seems to indicate it is just cvsup in : > checkout mode. Which is it? : : CVSup in checkout mode, sort of. Portsnap works using a compressed : snapshot of the ports tree, which is then used to update /usr/ports, : and also provides INDEX files; but the job it replaces is basically : that of cvsup in checkout mode. OK. That answers my concern about licenses. Since it is just the ports tree, and info built from the ports tree only, everything should be fine from that angle. : > neither make_index nor phttpget have man pages. : : They are both installed in /usr/libexec and only intended to be used : by portsnap. I didn't think man pages were necessary. Both should have man pages, since people will ask what they are for... Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 18:27:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F196F16A464; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:27:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0285443EF6; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:07:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77I6r81082511; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:06:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20050807.120756.130975791.imp@bsdimp.com> To: cperciva@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <42F63353.7030707@freebsd.org> References: <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> <20050807.100622.54623722.imp@bsdimp.com> <42F63353.7030707@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:06:53 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 18:27:30 -0000 In message: <42F63353.7030707@freebsd.org> Colin Percival writes: : M. Warner Losh wrote: : > In message: <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> : > Colin Percival writes: : > : very little reason for anyone to be running : > : a portsnap mirror unless it's a public mirror, : > : > Our experience with cvsup would suggest otherwise. Many places with : > large numbers or even small numbers of machines run cvsup mirrors that : > are private. I expect that universities will want to run mirrors that : > they might not want non-students accessing (eg, internal bandwidth is : > free, external is expensive). : : Portsnap != CVSup. In particular, an HTTP proxy which is used by five : hundred users running portsnap will use less bandwidth than a portsnap : mirror. The "right" solution for nearly all organizations is a caching : HTTP proxy. I'm not worried about bandwidth usage so much as I am about availability. The primary reason I cvsup the CVS tree is so that it is always available to me locally and I don't have to depend on my ISP having my link up. Proxie http doesn't help with that at all. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 18:38:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D0516A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:38:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from shrike.submonkey.net (cpc4-cdif2-3-1-cust199.cdif.cable.ntl.com [82.31.76.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3133743DD3; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:38:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.52 (FreeBSD)) id 1E1q2V-0007Kb-3B; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 19:38:27 +0100 Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:38:27 +0100 From: Ceri Davies To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20050807183826.GE55885@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Colin Percival , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> <20050807095644.GA54096@frontfree.net> <42F5E3DD.8010100@freebsd.org> <20050807111247.GD55885@submonkey.net> <42F5F039.90905@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HL3CiL6n73+IAdG4" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42F5F039.90905@freebsd.org> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: Ceri Davies Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 18:38:29 -0000 --HL3CiL6n73+IAdG4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 04:27:53AM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: > Ceri Davies wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 03:35:09AM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: > >>Mirrors can be set up; please contact me for details after I add portsn= ap > >>to the base system (there's not much point until then). > >=20 > > I think it would be important to have the FreeBSD.org cluster capable of > > distributing portsnap builds, and at least have portsnap.FreeBSD.org be > > the hostname used, before portsnap is brought into the base system. > > It isn't nice to say, but if anything were to happen to you... >=20 > Ken Smith created the DNS entries for the first two portsnap mirrors (my > server and a mirror donated by Eric Anderson) about two hours ago. The > portsnap builds are being done on secteam-managed hardware, and as soon > as I'm happy that everything is working correctly I'll send the necessary > code and instructions to portmgr and secteam about how to set up portsnap > building and mirroring. Brilliant, thanks. Ceri --=20 Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Einstein (attrib.) --HL3CiL6n73+IAdG4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9lUiocfcwTS3JF8RAuriAKDIVse7GpkAzJV0apgm+BTZfuavfgCgmzS+ yx5FPZJ1adXbmLOoKsl2DlY= =iRVQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HL3CiL6n73+IAdG4-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 19:03:39 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51D9F16A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:03:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from shrike.submonkey.net (cpc4-cdif2-3-1-cust199.cdif.cable.ntl.com [82.31.76.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC7143D46; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:03:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.52 (FreeBSD)) id 1E1qQq-000Dkw-UL; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:03:36 +0100 Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 20:03:36 +0100 From: Ceri Davies To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20050807190336.GF55885@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , Colin Percival , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" References: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fpolVoprVozDR81Y" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: Ceri Davies Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 19:03:39 -0000 --fpolVoprVozDR81Y Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 08:44:31AM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: > I've been told by a committer that there hasn't been enough > discussion about the merits of adding portsnap to the base > system. > Discuss. Portsnap rocks. Please do. I *would* like to see the server side bits that build the snaps, but that doesn't necessarily have to be in the FreeBSD tree. Ceri --=20 Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Einstein (attrib.) --fpolVoprVozDR81Y Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9lsIocfcwTS3JF8RAicoAJ9qN059Dfc4Fy6mH9mFy4AC6y5OGgCgv55o GAEeo/scdyOA7uRj7atdKaY= =dpJh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fpolVoprVozDR81Y-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 19:03:40 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57F9F16A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:03:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC03D43D46; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:03:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [192.168.254.11] (junior.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77JFW4N007798; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:15:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <42F65B01.4090303@samsco.org> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 13:03:29 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050615 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Warner Losh" References: <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> <20050807.100622.54623722.imp@bsdimp.com> <42F63353.7030707@freebsd.org> <20050807.120756.130975791.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20050807.120756.130975791.imp@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=3.8 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: cperciva@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 19:03:40 -0000 M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <42F63353.7030707@freebsd.org> > Colin Percival writes: > : M. Warner Losh wrote: > : > In message: <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> > : > Colin Percival writes: > : > : very little reason for anyone to be running > : > : a portsnap mirror unless it's a public mirror, > : > > : > Our experience with cvsup would suggest otherwise. Many places with > : > large numbers or even small numbers of machines run cvsup mirrors that > : > are private. I expect that universities will want to run mirrors that > : > they might not want non-students accessing (eg, internal bandwidth is > : > free, external is expensive). > : > : Portsnap != CVSup. In particular, an HTTP proxy which is used by five > : hundred users running portsnap will use less bandwidth than a portsnap > : mirror. The "right" solution for nearly all organizations is a caching > : HTTP proxy. > > I'm not worried about bandwidth usage so much as I am about > availability. The primary reason I cvsup the CVS tree is so that it > is always available to me locally and I don't have to depend on my ISP > having my link up. Proxie http doesn't help with that at all. > > Warner > That is a very alid developer opinion. Luckily, our users outnumber our developers my many orders of magnitude. Scott From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 19:12:13 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29C4916A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:12:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B596343D48; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:12:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from [192.168.4.250] (dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.250]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j77JC6gk038410; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:12:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) In-Reply-To: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> References: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v733) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0766BC65-512A-498A-AE29-13A1CC62069C@xcllnt.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marcel Moolenaar Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:12:04 -0700 To: Colin Percival X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.733) Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 19:12:13 -0000 On Aug 7, 2005, at 8:44 AM, Colin Percival wrote: > Unless I hear any complaints, I'm going to commit the following > patch tomorrow: > http://www.daemonology.net/tmp/portsnap-base.diff Please respect the project's style as described in style(9). At the very least this means indenting properly, because that's always the biggest PITA. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 19:39:40 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C99916A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:39:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DE343EEF for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:39:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr4so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.107]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV00HHE9SZGP50@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 13:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKV006Z59SZQLJ0@pd2mr4so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 13:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKV00J599SYAH@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 13:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:22:10 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <0766BC65-512A-498A-AE29-13A1CC62069C@xcllnt.net> To: Marcel Moolenaar Message-id: <42F65F62.5020001@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> <0766BC65-512A-498A-AE29-13A1CC62069C@xcllnt.net> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 19:39:40 -0000 Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Aug 7, 2005, at 8:44 AM, Colin Percival wrote: >> http://www.daemonology.net/tmp/portsnap-base.diff > > Please respect the project's style as described in style(9). At the > very least this means indenting properly, because that's always the > biggest PITA. I thought I did. Could you please point out where I got it wrong? Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 19:50:35 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E429F16A420; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:50:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail08.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail08.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D1F543E25; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:23:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (c220-239-19-236.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.19.236]) by mail08.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j77JN3dW032594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 8 Aug 2005 05:23:04 +1000 Received: from cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (localhost.alcatel.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j77JN3SR010009; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 05:23:03 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au) Received: (from pjeremy@localhost) by cirb503493.alcatel.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.9/Submit) id j77JN3dc010008; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 05:23:03 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from pjeremy) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 05:23:03 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Xin LI Message-ID: <20050807192303.GA9970@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> References: <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org> <20050807.231125.26489231.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> <20050807.100622.54623722.imp@bsdimp.com> <42F63353.7030707@freebsd.org> <20050807182451.GB61057@frontfree.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050807182451.GB61057@frontfree.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i Cc: Colin Percival , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 19:50:36 -0000 On Mon, 2005-Aug-08 02:24:51 +0800, Xin LI wrote: >I must say that HTTP proxy-able is the 1st reason why I like portsnap. >There are so many people asking "Hey, how can I break the firewall that >blocks cvsup connection?" Where I can only say "The only solution at >this time would be to negotiate with the local network administrator" >in the pre-postsnap age. Or use CTM. AFAIK, the ports tree is available via CTM. -- Peter Jeremy From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 20:17:08 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9229016A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 20:17:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from ns1.xcllnt.net (209-128-86-226.bayarea.net [209.128.86.226]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40F6441C2; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 20:17:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) Received: from [192.168.4.250] (dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net [192.168.4.250]) by ns1.xcllnt.net (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j77KH2ox038646; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:17:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcel@xcllnt.net) In-Reply-To: <42F65F62.5020001@freebsd.org> References: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> <0766BC65-512A-498A-AE29-13A1CC62069C@xcllnt.net> <42F65F62.5020001@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v733) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <6BD84B11-9BCB-4AEC-B9FC-C44EDF9762A7@xcllnt.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marcel Moolenaar Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:17:00 -0700 To: Colin Percival X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.733) Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:17:08 -0000 On Aug 7, 2005, at 12:22 PM, Colin Percival wrote: > Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > >> On Aug 7, 2005, at 8:44 AM, Colin Percival wrote: >> >>> http://www.daemonology.net/tmp/portsnap-base.diff >>> >> >> Please respect the project's style as described in style(9). At the >> very least this means indenting properly, because that's always the >> biggest PITA. >> > > I thought I did. Could you please point out where I got it wrong? It was the whole file. I guess this means that my browser probably has tab stops every 4th character :-/ Sorry for the noise. -- Marcel Moolenaar USPA: A-39004 marcel@xcllnt.net From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 21:21:45 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F5916A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:21:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pushmar@yahoo.com) Received: from web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C386143DC8 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:21:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pushmar@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 46136 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Aug 2005 21:21:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=oxOKIRYNTsKM1HJpJ3vG/z9Zj7Qpwxok/wfkfOJOnA6/Xt/4CZFgQMNXzvdDs2eN6nSykA/DtVr/Gkcmd7u0WVXdjbfO/ZAfIxDPCkrvAVSWzOIEhBUwX5OpNZi3UbkuXCDHGxui3jABQzmgwFrsbrZwC8bkLqz0E7M9XyfvPuQ= ; Message-ID: <20050807212142.46134.qmail@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.40.6.100] by web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 14:21:42 PDT Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 14:21:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Pushman To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: PA-risc platform? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 21:21:45 -0000 I know there's not support of any kind for the HP pa-risc machines. What would be involved to make freebsd run on 'em? I understand porting to a new architechure is difficult, at best. Thanks, Rick Pushman ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 21:35:04 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14B016A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:35:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5401E43D45; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:35:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77LW8e3083971; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 15:32:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 15:33:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20050807.153311.130710959.imp@bsdimp.com> To: scottl@samsco.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <42F65B01.4090303@samsco.org> References: <42F63353.7030707@freebsd.org> <20050807.120756.130975791.imp@bsdimp.com> <42F65B01.4090303@samsco.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 07 Aug 2005 15:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Cc: cperciva@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 21:35:04 -0000 In message: <42F65B01.4090303@samsco.org> Scott Long writes: : That is a very alid developer opinion. Luckily, our users outnumber : our developers my many orders of magnitude. I want the option to create them, and our cvsup experience suggests that many people want to do this, even though it isn't strictly necessary. In the past Developer needs and user needs seem to match fairly well.. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 21:46:20 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE71516A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:46:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from pastinakel.tue.nl (pastinakel.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF2A43D5C; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:46:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from stijn@pcwin002.win.tue.nl) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pastinakel.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E476214BD5D; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:46:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pastinakel.tue.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (pastinakel.tue.nl [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 56939-01; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:46:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pcwin002.win.tue.nl (pcwin002.win.tue.nl [131.155.71.72]) by pastinakel.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3359114BD5C; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:46:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from stijn@localhost) by pcwin002.win.tue.nl (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j77LkIiJ081798; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:46:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from stijn) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:46:18 +0200 From: Stijn Hoop To: Colin Percival Message-ID: <20050807214618.GG70957@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org> <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org> <20050807.231125.26489231.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> <20050807160452.GF70957@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> <42F632B3.90704@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VkVuOCYP9O7H3CXI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42F632B3.90704@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Bright-Idea: Let's abolish HTML mail! X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tue.nl Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 21:46:20 -0000 --VkVuOCYP9O7H3CXI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 09:11:31AM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: > Stijn Hoop wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 07:23:28AM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: > >>Those don't belong in src, but I could put them into the projects repo > >>if people really want them. > >=20 > > Not that I am going to do any such thing, but why prevent people from > > providing their own binaries? Maybe they want to distribute their own > > ports tree to an internal cluster using portsnap >=20 > Two reasons come to mind: First, the portsnap chain of security starts > with running cvsup to cvsup-master through a tunnel to freefall... a > non-committer wouldn't be able to do that. OK, I'm still arguing in the hypothetical case, but why is it insecure then to redistribute a copy of a portsnap'd ports tree + local patches? > Second, it would be far more > efficient for this hypothetical user to keep their modifications as a > local set of patches which were applied post-portsnap on individual > machines. That might very well be true. In any case, this is all hypothetical. All that _I_ am going to do is checkout the portsnap client when it hits the base system. So no more devil's advocate for me. And last but certainly not least: thank you for sharing your software in the first place! --Stijn --VkVuOCYP9O7H3CXI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9oEpY3r/tLQmfWcRAuihAJsFhDMnq6R3hyMy3NeS8eZKWtWFFACfYSut F2FHkSs/Y84mFgMee82d8EA= =YgZH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VkVuOCYP9O7H3CXI-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 22:44:38 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6EF16A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 22:44:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E713E43D49 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 22:44:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [192.168.254.11] (junior.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77MuY9s008741; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:56:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <42F68ED1.8090509@samsco.org> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:44:33 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050615 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Pushman References: <20050807212142.46134.qmail@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050807212142.46134.qmail@web30201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=3.8 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PA-risc platform? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 22:44:38 -0000 Richard Pushman wrote: > I know there's not support of any kind for the HP pa-risc machines. > What would be involved to make freebsd run on 'em? > I understand porting to a new architechure is difficult, at best. > > Thanks, > Rick Pushman > > It would be about 9-12 months of dedicated effort. However, there needs to be a compelling reason. It's quite easy to pick up a J2xx or 9000/7xx on eBay or from government surplus, but all you'll really get out of it is the equivalent performance of a Pentium or maybe Pentium2. Also, since the architecture has effectively been orphaned, there isn't a whole lot of future growth potential to keep it interesting. And there are technical hurdles like working with the closed/proprietary bootstrapping mechanisms that make it a pain. So you'll need to ask yourself if the results will justify the effort. Scott From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 22:47:01 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C62616A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 22:47:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E5743D49; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 22:47:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77Mievh084431; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:44:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:45:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20050807.164544.16299165.imp@bsdimp.com> To: stijn@win.tue.nl From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20050807214618.GG70957@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> References: <20050807160452.GF70957@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> <42F632B3.90704@freebsd.org> <20050807214618.GG70957@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:44:41 -0600 (MDT) Cc: cperciva@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 22:47:01 -0000 In message: <20050807214618.GG70957@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> Stijn Hoop writes: : And last but certainly not least: thank you for sharing your software : in the first place! Agreed! I'd love to see the tools that are used to create the streams available. Many people will have need for it, and I think that we'd do them a disservice to not make them available. Having said that, I've had all of my concerns about this answered and think it is a great idea to put portsnap into the base. I'd like to see the generators in the tree too, but I'd not stand in the way of having the base functionality there before the generators are there. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 8 00:15:43 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2496116A41F for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 00:15:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from gw.catspoiler.org (217-ip-163.nccn.net [209.79.217.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9AE143D46 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 00:15:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (mousie.catspoiler.org [192.168.101.2]) by gw.catspoiler.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j780FYTC093518; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:15:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <200508080015.j780FYTC093518@gw.catspoiler.org> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:15:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis To: phk@haven.freebsd.dk In-Reply-To: <21744.1123267707@phk.freebsd.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: putting HESIOD, Appletalk and IPX on notice X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 00:15:43 -0000 On 5 Aug, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > I think it is time we deorbit HESIOD in toto. We used HESIOD maps with amd at my previous day job. For all I know, this is still the situation. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 8 08:53:18 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BAAD16A41F; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 08:53:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nik@freebsd.org) Received: from jc.ngo.org.uk (jc.ngo.org.uk [69.55.225.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98A0843D6D; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 08:53:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nik@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.1.21] (82-44-220-218.cable.ubr10.haye.blueyonder.co.uk [82.44.220.218]) by jc.ngo.org.uk (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j788rChA063000; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 01:53:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <42F71D75.4060008@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 09:53:09 +0100 From: Nik Clayton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.5 (Windows/20050711) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Colin Percival References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: * (1.792) RCVD_IN_NJABL_DUL,RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 69.55.225.33 Cc: Doug Barton , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 08:53:18 -0000 Colin Percival wrote: > But for formality: Does anyone have an objection to having the base system > enlarged by about 40kB by adding a program for updating the ports tree which > is faster, uses less bandwidth, is more secure, and is easier to use than cvsup, > while also having the side benefit of distributing pre-built INDEX files? Since you ask, only to the name. Running "ports" on my system shows: ports_glob portsclean portsdb "port" shows those plus: portaudit portcvsweb portinstall portmap :-) portupgrade portversion Working on the assumption that applications that affect the whole ports tree start "ports" and applications that affect single ports start "port", "portsnap" left me wondering whether this "snaps" a single port somehow, or "naps" (whatever that would be) the whole ports tree. It may be too late in the day, but I'd far prefer this to be pulled in with a more descriptive name: portssync portsupdate portsfresh or portsfreshen perhaps? N From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 16:01:55 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00CF616A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:01:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C3843D45; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 16:01:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j77G18IM081390; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:01:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:02:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20050807.100211.20316746.imp@bsdimp.com> To: hrs@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> References: <20050807.153425.21897310.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org> <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:01:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:01:56 +0000 Cc: dougb@freebsd.org, cperciva@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:01:55 -0000 In message: <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> Hiroki Sato writes: : So, I would like the server-side bits to be imported if portsnap will : be in the base system. I wouldn't dream of having a local system without a cvsup mirror daemon running on it, even if I don't let others use it. I suspect that as disk gets cheaper, doing the same for the ports snapshots might be viable. People used to complain about how much disk space the cvs tree took up, but with 400G drives, those complaints are gone. However, one possible gotcha in setting this up is licensing. Do you know that your distribution of binary snapshot complies with the GPL which requires that you also provide the sources when you do this? The project already has some issues with GPLd ports when it builds binaries. Are distfiles part of portsnap? If so, then you are safe for the standard licenses... Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 18:29:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99BC016A41F; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:29:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: from tarsier.geekcn.org (tarsier.geekcn.org [210.51.165.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DD7443D48; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 18:29:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net (unknown [219.239.99.7]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tarsier.geekcn.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 980F0EB4F4C; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:29:47 +0800 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF773138A06; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:29:45 +0800 (CST) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (beastie.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 60511-20; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:29:38 +0800 (CST) Received: by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3B65A1389CA; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:29:38 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 02:29:38 +0800 From: Xin LI To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20050807182938.GC61057@frontfree.net> References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <20050806092232.GA850@zaphod.nitro.dk> <42F489DC.1080400@freebsd.org> <20050807115927.GA851@zaphod.nitro.dk> <20050807173003.GA7290@soaustin.net> <42F649C1.4050009@samsco.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2/5bycvrmDh4d1IB" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42F649C1.4050009@samsco.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-GPG-key-ID/Fingerprint: 0xCAEEB8C0 / 43B8 B703 B8DD 0231 B333 DC28 39FB 93A0 CAEE B8C0 X-GPG-Public-Key: http://www.delphij.net/delphij.asc X-Operating-System: FreeBSD beastie.frontfree.net 5.4-RELEASE-p6 FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE-p6 #4: Thu Jul 28 10:59:26 CST 2005 delphij@beastie.frontfree.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BEASTIE i386 X-URL: http://www.delphij.net X-By: delphij@beastie.frontfree.net X-Location: Beijing, China X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at frontfree.net X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:01:56 +0000 Cc: Mark Linimon , Colin Percival , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 18:29:50 -0000 --2/5bycvrmDh4d1IB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 11:49:53AM -0600, Scott Long wrote: [snip] > I think that portsnap is a very good feature and I'm ready to tout it > for the 6.0 release. The technical problems, such as they are, are Maybe we should add some sysinstall(8) hooks to enable portsnap within it? (If this is considered I would say I am volunteering to do that). Another handy application I would want to see in the base system is portaudit, as it audits vulnerabilities in the base system as well. Will this be considered? Cheers, --=20 Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ See complete headers for GPG key and other information. --2/5bycvrmDh4d1IB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9lMS/cVsHxFZiIoRAjxtAJ9tRlf4ZS/JH/gTPcpM93kK/T56IwCfWmuQ kpvaurbJeeexPlE17sCtlJI= =UmUN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2/5bycvrmDh4d1IB-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 8 10:03:08 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4653D16A41F; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:03:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mortis.over-yonder.net (adsl-152-70-24.jan.bellsouth.net [70.152.70.24]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D04743D48; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:03:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: by mortis.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 08B0D20F62; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 05:03:05 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 05:03:05 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Nik Clayton Message-ID: <20050808100305.GA35719@over-yonder.net> References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <42F71D75.4060008@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42F71D75.4060008@freebsd.org> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i-fullermd.2 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:01:56 +0000 Cc: Doug Barton , Colin Percival , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 10:03:08 -0000 On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 09:53:09AM +0100 I heard the voice of Nik Clayton, and lo! it spake thus: > > Working on the assumption that applications that affect the whole > ports tree start "ports" and applications that affect single ports > start "port", "portsnap" left me wondering whether this "snaps" a > single port somehow, or "naps" (whatever that would be) the whole > ports tree. Well, see, before you build anything, you should always make sure your tree is well-rested... -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 8 19:54:23 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC9CE16A41F for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:54:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53CA443D46 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:54:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd5mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr1so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.232]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKX007SX5X2BJA0@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 13:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml1so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.145]) by pd5mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKX0070T5X2MTL0@pd5mr1so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 13:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKX00HBM5X2JG@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 13:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:53:25 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <20050807214618.GG70957@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> To: Stijn Hoop Message-id: <42F7B835.4050504@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F5BC19.5040602@freebsd.org> <20050807.211240.75793221.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F60443.2040301@freebsd.org> <20050807.231125.26489231.hrs@allbsd.org> <42F61960.4020400@freebsd.org> <20050807160452.GF70957@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> <42F632B3.90704@freebsd.org> <20050807214618.GG70957@pcwin002.win.tue.nl> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:54:23 -0000 Stijn Hoop wrote: > On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 09:11:31AM -0700, Colin Percival wrote: >>Two reasons come to mind: First, the portsnap chain of security starts >>with running cvsup to cvsup-master through a tunnel to freefall... a >>non-committer wouldn't be able to do that. > > OK, I'm still arguing in the hypothetical case, but why is it insecure > then to redistribute a copy of a portsnap'd ports tree + local patches? Hmm. I didn't think of that option. I guess it would be ok, as long as the machine which was doing the repackaging was kept secure. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 8 20:05:20 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D99916A41F; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 20:05:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd3mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E6C243D45; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 20:05:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd3mr7so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr7so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.23]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKX00GE96AU0Z50@l-daemon>; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml1so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.145]) by pd3mr7so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IKX00LV76AUVYB0@pd3mr7so.prod.shaw.ca>; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IKX0005J6AU0O@l-daemon>; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 13:01:41 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <42F71D75.4060008@freebsd.org> To: Nik Clayton Message-id: <42F7BA25.6060400@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F47C0D.2020704@freebsd.org> <42F51979.2020509@FreeBSD.org> <42F54DD4.7080901@freebsd.org> <42F71D75.4060008@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: /usr/portsnap vs. /var/db/portsnap X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 20:05:20 -0000 Nik Clayton wrote: > It may be too late in the day, but I'd far prefer this to be pulled in > with a more descriptive name: > > portssync > portsupdate > portsfresh or portsfreshen > > perhaps? I think it's too late to change the name; but as the various port.* tools migrate into the base system (as I hope they well), I get the feeling that someday it might be a good idea to have a port(8) utility which takes a command ("install", "upgrade", "update-tree", etc) and runs the right utility. This would reduce naming confusion, as well as helping new users to find all the tools they need. Of course, this depends upon more of these utilities making their way into the base system. Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 10 01:44:27 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB62816A423 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 01:44:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rodrigc@crodrigues.org) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 169494572D for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:53:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rodrigc@crodrigues.org) Received: from c-66-30-115-133.hsd1.ma.comcast.net ([66.30.115.133]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with ESMTP id <2005081000531701400qhpe5e>; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:53:17 +0000 Received: from c-66-30-115-133.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (localhost.127.in-addr.arpa [127.0.0.1]) by c-66-30-115-133.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j7A0rNv1047181 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 20:53:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rodrigc@c-66-30-115-133.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Received: (from rodrigc@localhost) by c-66-30-115-133.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id j7A0rNBc047180 for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 20:53:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rodrigc) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 20:53:23 -0400 From: Craig Rodrigues To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20050810005323.GA42721@crodrigues.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Subject: [RFC] -Wredundant-decls: keep it or remove it? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 01:44:28 -0000 Hi, In recent days, while trying to get the kernel in shape to compile with GCC 4.0, I encountered some examples such as the following in net/rtsock.c: extern struct domain routedomain; /* or at least forward */ static struct protosw routesw[] = { { SOCK_RAW, &routedomain, 0, PR_ATOMIC|PR_ADDR, 0, route_output, raw_ctlinput, 0, 0, raw_init, 0, 0, 0, &route_usrreqs } }; static struct domain routedomain = { PF_ROUTE, "route", 0, 0, 0, routesw, &routesw[sizeof(routesw)/sizeof(routesw[0])] }; It is illegal in ISO C to declare a struct as extern (implying external linkage) , and then declare it as static (implying internal linkage). I have two options to fix this. OPTION 1: Change routedomain to not be static: extern struct domain routedomain; .... struct domain routedomain = { ...... } OPTION 2: Forward declare routedomain as static, but remove -Wredundant-decls from kernel makefiles: static struct domain routedomain; .... static struct domain routedomain = { ..... } For OPTION 2, it is necessary to remove -Wredundant-decls because you will get a new compiler warning: warning: redundant redeclaration of 'routedomain' warnig: previous declaration was here ... To fix this problem, is it better to go with OPTION 1 or OPTION 2? I am a bit hesitant to remove -Wredundant-decls from the kernel Makefiles, because it has been there for a long time. Are there cases where the warnings are useful? It seems to warn against legitimate C code in the GCC documentation: `-Wredundant-decls' Warn if anything is declared more than once in the same scope, even in cases where multiple declaration is valid and changes nothing. Any feedback would be appreciated. -- Craig Rodrigues rodrigc@crodrigues.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 10 05:04:31 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 357F216A42B; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:04:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from evfeqgqzjw@chrysaliswine.com) Received: from mail-gateway.gearhost.com (12-217-45-156.client.mchsi.com [12.217.45.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8014D45EE8; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 04:35:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from evfeqgqzjw@chrysaliswine.com) From: "Megan Felton" To: Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:18:11 -0800 Message-id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Mailer: Microsoft CDO for Windows 2000 Thread-index: 5B64a75b8eXKXKX+t6C75bUhaTgZMzSFS_3== Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.2[2].1[4].5[4] X-OriginalArrivalTime: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:18:11 -0800 (UTC) FILETIME=[Hu7DqJw:hAN8642] Subject: GrandSlam St0ck X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:04:32 -0000 NEXT GENERATION BROADBAND SOLUTION !!BREAKING NEWS!! ---------------------------------------- SUMMARY : -Nayna (NAYN.OB) created an innovative & integrated broadband so|ution -Revo|utionizing "The First Mi|e" broadband access networks in the process -De|ivering broadband access so|utions to he|p drive a major paradigm shift ---------------------------------------- Symbol: NAYN.OB Recent price: $0.30 - $2.50 volume: 7,170 shares(4/16/05): 35.8mm (est) Equity market capitalization: $34mm ---------------------------------------- WORLDWIDE BROADBAND : -Wor|dwide number of broadband subscribers including Cab|e, DSL and Fiber to the premise about 128 million in Q3, 2004 and expected to grow to 287 million by 2009 -Emerging Markets such as India expecting broadband subscribers growth from 3 mi|lion to 20 mil|ion subscribers by 2007 -Fastest Growth Market is Asia Pacific; Expected Equipment Growth from $24.5 billion to $58.8 billion by 2008 ---------------------------------------- MARKET GROWTH DRIVERS : -Increasing broadband demand for residentia| applications such as streaming music, peer-to-peer sharing app|ications, on|ine games, video-on-demand, HDTV, etc.! -Increasing demand for VoIP services in the enterprises -Accelerated computing systems evo|ution including future growth in multi-processor cores, c|usters, distributed data storage schemes and adaptive agents ---------------------------------------- PARADIGM SHIFT TO ETHERNET OVER FIRST MILE (EFM) NETWORKS: 1."First Mile" Gigabit Ethernet And Ethernet Passive Optica| Networks (EPON) -Fiber to the premise (business, multi-unit dwelling, home premise), a gigantic point-to-mu|tipoint broadband fire hose -Designed to increase service provider revenue by delivering high-margin broadband data, voice and video (HDTV, Digital TV, CATV) services -Paradigm shift driving cost reduction with one network by rep|acing three separate voice, data and video networks -Wide applicability for te|ecom carriers, municipa|ities, enterprises, |arge sca|e, multi-unit dwe||ing builders, systems integrators 2. Converged, simultaneous triple play so|utions -Bundled data, video, voice, and circuit-switched service convergence so|utions -Inc|udes Internet Telephony (VoIP), broadband services, 3G wire|ess, satellite channels, and security networks ---------------------------------------- NAYNA's ETHERNET OVER FIRST MILE (EFM) SOLUTION -EFM-based ExressSTREAM a|lows carriers and others to provide revenue generating services including: Ethernet, E1, T1, standard telephony,VoIP, IP video, & RF video. -Combines |ayer two and |ayer three Ethernet switching/routing technology -Integrates all types of user services over EPON and Gigabit Point-to-Point Ethernet -Supports a comprehensive suite of networking protocols, including IP, SIP, SNMP and TDM. User services include Ethernet private lines and VPNs,TDM private lines,video & VoIP -Provides industry-standard compatibility, interoperabi|ity, quality of service, economics, ease of use, and virtua||y un|imited bandwidth required to de|iver today and tomorrow's voice, video and data services ---------------------------------------- COMPANY PROFILE: -Based in Denver, Colorado, earned a profit on revenues of more than $10 mi||ion. -Has more than 50 emp|oyees and provides: tai|ored hardware, software, insta||ation, system upgrades,network consolidation, rapid prob|em response via help desk and rapid equipment rep|acement to customers ---------------------------------------- Customer |ist: Western Union The Sports Authority (NYSE: TSA) Qwest Communications International ---------------------------------------- INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY : Over ten patents in the area of networking and optica| networking ---------------------------------------- Nothing in this e-mai| should be considered personalized investment advice. A|though our emp|oyees may answer your general customer service questions, they are not |icensed under securities |aws to address your particu|ar investment situation. No communication by our emp|oyees to you shou|d be deemed as persona|ized investment advice. We expressly forbid our writers from having a financial interest in any security recommended to our readers. All of our employees and agents must wait 24 hours after on-line pub|ication or 72 hours after the mai|ing of printed-only publication prior to following an initial recommendation. Any investments recommended in this |etter shou|d be made on|y after consu|ting with your investment advisor and on|y after reviewing the prospectus or financia| statements of the company. To cance| by mai| or for any other subscription issues, reply please to: daily_tip48@ yahoo.com (c) 2005 Investment News|etter A|| Rights Reserved From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 10 05:56:21 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A84316AA18 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:55:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.NUXI.org (trang.nuxi.com [66.93.134.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B7D945B6C for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 03:23:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.NUXI.org (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.NUXI.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j7A3N9Ou081038; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 20:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.NUXI.org) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.NUXI.org (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id j7A3N87V081037; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 20:23:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 20:23:08 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" To: Craig Rodrigues Message-ID: <20050810032308.GA80916@dragon.NUXI.org> Mail-Followup-To: obrien@freebsd.org, Craig Rodrigues , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <20050810005323.GA42721@crodrigues.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050810005323.GA42721@crodrigues.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD Group X-Pgp-Rsa-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Rsa-Keyid: 1024/34F9F9D5 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] -Wredundant-decls: keep it or remove it? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: obrien@freebsd.org List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:56:21 -0000 On Tue, Aug 09, 2005 at 08:53:23PM -0400, Craig Rodrigues wrote: > It is illegal in ISO C to declare a struct as extern (implying external > linkage) , and then declare it as static (implying internal linkage). .. > OPTION 2: > Forward declare routedomain as static, but remove -Wredundant-decls > from kernel makefiles: > static struct domain routedomain; > .... > static struct domain routedomain = { ..... } > > For OPTION 2, it is necessary to remove -Wredundant-decls > because you will get a new compiler warning: > > warning: redundant redeclaration of 'routedomain' > warnig: previous declaration was here ... This is a GCC bug that I am working to get fixed. -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org) From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 10 06:31:31 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E347A16A427 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 06:31:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: from mailout2.pacific.net.au (mailout2.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.115]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5414F43D45 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 06:31:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.87]) by mailout2.pacific.net.au (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j7A6VOln030791; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:31:24 +1000 Received: from epsplex.bde.org (katana.zip.com.au [61.8.7.246]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j7A6VM0Y024953; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:31:23 +1000 Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:31:22 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: bde@epsplex.bde.org To: Craig Rodrigues In-Reply-To: <20050810005323.GA42721@crodrigues.org> Message-ID: <20050810151806.I5966@epsplex.bde.org> References: <20050810005323.GA42721@crodrigues.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [RFC] -Wredundant-decls: keep it or remove it? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 06:31:32 -0000 On Tue, 9 Aug 2005, Craig Rodrigues wrote: > In recent days, while trying to get the kernel in shape to > compile with GCC 4.0, I encountered some examples such as the > following in net/rtsock.c: > > extern struct domain routedomain; /* or at least forward */ > > static struct protosw routesw[] = { > { SOCK_RAW, &routedomain, 0, PR_ATOMIC|PR_ADDR, > 0, route_output, raw_ctlinput, 0, > 0, > raw_init, 0, 0, 0, > &route_usrreqs > } > }; > > static struct domain routedomain = > { PF_ROUTE, "route", 0, 0, 0, > routesw, &routesw[sizeof(routesw)/sizeof(routesw[0])] }; > > It is illegal in ISO C to declare a struct as extern (implying external linkage) > , and then declare it as static (implying internal linkage). gcc[1-4] has warned about this for at least 15 years, but only with -pedantic. It has always been fatal in C compilers (e.g., TenDRA). The extern declaration is apparently a hack to support K&R C where it wasn't clear that static declarations could be repeated. > I have two options to fix this. > > OPTION 1: > > Change routedomain to not be static: > > extern struct domain routedomain; > > .... > struct domain routedomain = { ...... } Not good. It should be static since it is only used in 1 object file. > OPTION 2: > > Forward declare routedomain as static, but remove -Wredundant-decls > from kernel makefiles: > > static struct domain routedomain; > > .... > static struct domain routedomain = { ..... } Not good. -Wredundant-decls was useful for finding and removing private declarations of public interfaces. Now it is useful for preventing them coming back. > For OPTION 2, it is necessary to remove -Wredundant-decls > because you will get a new compiler warning: > > warning: redundant redeclaration of 'routedomain' > warnig: previous declaration was here ... It is necessary to fix -Wredundant-decls so that it doesn't warn about non-redundant declarations. In ISO C, it is possible to build up a type by successive incomplete declarations (see section 6.2.7). Then the later declarations needed to complete the type are manifestly non-redundant, but "gcc -Wredundant" decls complains about all the later ones but not about the first one which might be redundant. Most uses of this feature are just obfuscations, but ones like the above where the non-reduundant info is an initializer are useful. Example of a useless use of this feature (adapted from the example in section 6.2.7): %%% int foo1(); int foo1(int foo2()); int foo1(int foo2(int foo3())); int foo1(int foo2(int foo3(int foo4()))); %%% This example can be extended to take any number of non-redundant declarations to complete the declaration of foo1(). gnu C provides many more ways to do silly things like the above. C's type rules prevent adding type qualifiers in separate declarations, but gnu C attributes can be added separately. The behaviour for this is buggy, and fixing it might require keeping track of which declarations are actually redundant. Example: %%% static int x __attribute__((__aligned__(4))); static int x __attribute__((__aligned__(16))); static int x = 1; %%% Here the second attribute statement works reasonably by silently overriding the first attribute; however, if the initializer is moved before the second attribute statment, then it has no effect on the alignment. gcc apparently emits the code for the initializer before seeing all the declarations. I thought that C's support for composite types don't allow it to do this. Perhaps the type+linkage rules do actually allow it but the attribute rules should allow it but currently don't. The type+linkage rules have very confusing parts for static linkage which may be mainly to support 1-pass compilation. > To fix this problem, is it better to go with OPTION 1 > or OPTION 2? I am a bit hesitant to remove -Wredundant-decls > from the kernel Makefiles, because it has been there for a long time. > Are there cases where the warnings are useful? See above. > It seems to warn against legitimate C code in > the GCC documentation: > > `-Wredundant-decls' > Warn if anything is declared more than once in the same scope, > even in cases where multiple declaration is valid and changes > nothing. Many gcc warnings are for legitimate C code that is considered bad practice. All should be (ones about illegitimate C code should be errors). Bruce From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 10 12:03:03 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9087616A41F for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:03:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andre@freebsd.org) Received: from c00l3r.networx.ch (c00l3r.networx.ch [62.48.2.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A03643D70 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:03:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andre@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 14984 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2005 11:44:39 -0000 Received: from dotat.atdotat.at (HELO [62.48.0.47]) ([62.48.0.47]) (envelope-sender ) by c00l3r.networx.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Aug 2005 11:44:39 -0000 Message-ID: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:02:58 +0200 From: Andre Oppermann User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.8b) Gecko/20050217 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:03:03 -0000 When using FreeBSD as a high performance router there are some desirable changes to the way multiple CPUs are handled. Normally a second CPU doesn't add much (if any) performance to routing because of locking overhead and packets randomly being processed by the CPUs wasting cache efficiency. On the other hand having just one CPU is not optimal in running the routing daemon in userland. When there are large changes to the table (eg. BGP full feed flap) userland sucks time away from the packet forwarding in the kernel. The idea is to combine both worlds by designating CPU0 exclusively for all kernel processing (thus avoiding the expensive mutex synchronization and bus locking instructions) and CPU1 exclusively for all userland processing. Whenever a userland program does a syscall the kernel CPU will take over. When it's done, the process get run by the userland CPU again. That way we get a very good scalability out of two CPUs for this particular task. Hence my question to the SMP and scheduler gurus: How well does the current SMP and scheduler architecture lend itself to this kind of special handling? Is it just a matter of modifying (or plugging in) the schedule or are there more involved things to consider? -- Andre From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 10 12:19:11 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6023116A41F; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:19:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [204.156.12.53]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 101D743D48; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:19:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD2D46B7D; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:22:33 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Andre Oppermann In-Reply-To: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <20050810131805.C22763@fledge.watson.org> References: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:19:11 -0000 On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Andre Oppermann wrote: > When using FreeBSD as a high performance router there are some desirable > changes to the way multiple CPUs are handled. Normally a second CPU > doesn't add much (if any) performance to routing because of locking > overhead and packets randomly being processed by the CPUs wasting cache > efficiency. On the other hand having just one CPU is not optimal in > running the routing daemon in userland. When there are large changes to > the table (eg. BGP full feed flap) userland sucks time away from the > packet forwarding in the kernel. > > The idea is to combine both worlds by designating CPU0 exclusively for > all kernel processing (thus avoiding the expensive mutex synchronization > and bus locking instructions) and CPU1 exclusively for all userland > processing. Whenever a userland program does a syscall the kernel CPU > will take over. When it's done, the process get run by the userland CPU > again. That way we get a very good scalability out of two CPUs for this > particular task. > > Hence my question to the SMP and scheduler gurus: How well does the > current SMP and scheduler architecture lend itself to this kind of > special handling? Is it just a matter of modifying (or plugging in) the > schedule or are there more involved things to consider? You can get a subset of this behavior by isolating processing of, say, routing events to a specific thread, and then pinning that thread to a specific CPU. In fact, a lot of our network processing is done thread-locally, so as to avoid hitting synchronized data structures -- when procesisng IP packet headers, the mbuf is kept in thread-local storage for the duration, requiring no synchronization. By extending this approach, you get the reduced synchronization benefits. The other aspect is the precedence for CPU use and avoiding bad caching behavior. Pinning gets you part of the way there. Right now I believe we don't have a way to say "Don't use CPU X for userland processes". However, the kernel should preempt userland processes when it needs to. You may find you get 90% of what you're looking for by pinning the netisr and any related ithreads (if not using polling) to a specific CPU, then having a thread-local routing cache or store of some sort. Ideally the behavior you describe shouldn't require a specialized scheduler, rather, use of existing scheduler primitives. Robert N M Watson From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 10 12:42:44 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF16016A41F for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:42:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andre@freebsd.org) Received: from c00l3r.networx.ch (c00l3r.networx.ch [62.48.2.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E693F43D49 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:42:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andre@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 15320 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2005 12:24:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO freebsd.org) ([62.48.0.53]) (envelope-sender ) by c00l3r.networx.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Aug 2005 12:24:21 -0000 Message-ID: <42F9F640.CCF114BE@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:42:40 +0200 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Watson References: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> <20050810131805.C22763@fledge.watson.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:42:44 -0000 Robert Watson wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Andre Oppermann wrote: > > > When using FreeBSD as a high performance router there are some desirable > > changes to the way multiple CPUs are handled. Normally a second CPU > > doesn't add much (if any) performance to routing because of locking > > overhead and packets randomly being processed by the CPUs wasting cache > > efficiency. On the other hand having just one CPU is not optimal in > > running the routing daemon in userland. When there are large changes to > > the table (eg. BGP full feed flap) userland sucks time away from the > > packet forwarding in the kernel. > > > > The idea is to combine both worlds by designating CPU0 exclusively for > > all kernel processing (thus avoiding the expensive mutex synchronization > > and bus locking instructions) and CPU1 exclusively for all userland > > processing. Whenever a userland program does a syscall the kernel CPU > > will take over. When it's done, the process get run by the userland CPU > > again. That way we get a very good scalability out of two CPUs for this > > particular task. > > > > Hence my question to the SMP and scheduler gurus: How well does the > > current SMP and scheduler architecture lend itself to this kind of > > special handling? Is it just a matter of modifying (or plugging in) the > > schedule or are there more involved things to consider? > > You can get a subset of this behavior by isolating processing of, say, > routing events to a specific thread, and then pinning that thread to a > specific CPU. In fact, a lot of our network processing is done > thread-locally, so as to avoid hitting synchronized data structures -- > when procesisng IP packet headers, the mbuf is kept in thread-local > storage for the duration, requiring no synchronization. By extending this > approach, you get the reduced synchronization benefits. The other aspect > is the precedence for CPU use and avoiding bad caching behavior. Pinning > gets you part of the way there. Right now I believe we don't have a way > to say "Don't use CPU X for userland processes". However, the kernel > should preempt userland processes when it needs to. You may find you get > 90% of what you're looking for by pinning the netisr and any related > ithreads (if not using polling) to a specific CPU, then having a > thread-local routing cache or store of some sort. What you describe here is not really of importance to me. Actually I'm breaking any cache locality for userland. But in this case it doesn't matter. I don't want to keep the routing events to userland on the same CPU, in fact I want them to be on different CPUs. My goal is to avoid the more expensive mutexes (using just those for uniproc) for interface etc. too by keeping the kernel entirely on one CPU. The primary job of CPU0 is to do all kernel work and to forward packets. When some data is read or written to a socket it will switch CPUs at the syscall boundary. > Ideally the behavior you describe shouldn't require a specialized > scheduler, rather, use of existing scheduler primitives. In theory. I'm looking for the real world status of this. -- Andre From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 10 17:49:21 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4F1D16A425; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:49:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mv.twc.weather.com (mv.twc.weather.com [65.212.71.225]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3A3B43D5A; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:49:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [10.50.40.201] (Not Verified[65.202.103.25]) by mv.twc.weather.com with NetIQ MailMarshal (v6, 0, 3, 8) id ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:04:09 -0400 From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:11:48 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200508100911.50004.jhb@FreeBSD.org> Cc: Andre Oppermann Subject: Re: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:49:21 -0000 On Wednesday 10 August 2005 08:02 am, Andre Oppermann wrote: > When using FreeBSD as a high performance router there are some desirable > changes to the way multiple CPUs are handled. Normally a second CPU > doesn't add much (if any) performance to routing because of locking > overhead and packets randomly being processed by the CPUs wasting cache > efficiency. On the other hand having just one CPU is not optimal in running > the routing daemon in userland. When there are large changes to the table > (eg. BGP full feed flap) userland sucks time away from the packet > forwarding in the kernel. > > The idea is to combine both worlds by designating CPU0 exclusively for > all kernel processing (thus avoiding the expensive mutex synchronization > and bus locking instructions) and CPU1 exclusively for all userland > processing. Whenever a userland program does a syscall the kernel CPU > will take over. When it's done, the process get run by the userland > CPU again. That way we get a very good scalability out of two CPUs for > this particular task. > > Hence my question to the SMP and scheduler gurus: How well does the current > SMP and scheduler architecture lend itself to this kind of special > handling? Is it just a matter of modifying (or plugging in) the schedule or > are there more involved things to consider? First, you might want to go find a copy of "Unix Systems for Modern Architectures: Symmetric Multiprocessing and Caching for Kernel Programmers" by Curt Schimmel as he describes this model as one of the early SMP models for UNIX kernels before fine-grained locking was used. (It's known as a master-slave system IIRC). I think this is the model that BSD/OS employed for SMP in its 4.x series before they did their version of SMPng. If you really want to do this, you can actually go back to spl's and use spl on the Master CPU and the slave CPUs just run user processes. You probably aren't looking for that much work however. In the FreeBSD 5+ world, you might be able to do this using a custom scheduler, but I think you'd need some other hooks as well (need to compile out lock on x86, note that only x86 has this weird case of atomic ops being different on UP and SMP). You'd need a way to know if a thread was about to return to userland or not and thus if it were eligible for running on a slave. You could probably manage that via sched_userret(), but you would need a new sched hook for kernel entry that was called from trap() and syscall(). You would also want to modify the APIC code to force all interrupts to the BSP (not hard), and you would probably need some sort of sched_lock still to manage the shared queues. However, I'd recommend that you go buy the aforementioned book first and read it if you haven't already. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 10 20:10:10 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB9CE16A41F; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:10:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from tinker.exit.com (tinker.exit.com [206.223.0.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B9143D55; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:10:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from realtime.exit.com (realtime [206.223.0.5]) by tinker.exit.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j7AKA6DH056830; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:10:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from realtime.exit.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by realtime.exit.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j7AKA5YA057067; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:10:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: (from frank@localhost) by realtime.exit.com (8.13.3/8.12.9/Submit) id j7AKA5sA057066; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:10:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) X-Authentication-Warning: realtime.exit.com: frank set sender to frank@exit.com using -f From: Frank Mayhar To: John Baldwin In-Reply-To: <200508100911.50004.jhb@FreeBSD.org> References: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> <200508100911.50004.jhb@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Exit Consulting Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:10:05 -0700 Message-Id: <1123704605.54957.8.camel@realtime.exit.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.1/1011/Tue Aug 9 02:20:28 2005 on tinker.exit.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Andre Oppermann , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: frank@exit.com List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:10:11 -0000 On Wed, 2005-08-10 at 09:11 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > I think this is the model that BSD/OS employed > for SMP in its 4.x series before they did their version of SMPng. I didn't grunge around in the scheduler (much), but as far as I'm aware BSD/OS 4.x used the Big Giant Lock mechanism just as FreeBSD did, and for the same reason. -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/ Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/ http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/ From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 10 20:57:49 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3229616A429; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:57:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mv.twc.weather.com (mv.twc.weather.com [65.212.71.225]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2C9C43D48; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:57:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [10.50.40.201] (Not Verified[65.202.103.25]) by mv.twc.weather.com with NetIQ MailMarshal (v6, 0, 3, 8) id ; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:12:26 -0400 From: John Baldwin To: frank@exit.com Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:38:25 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> <200508100911.50004.jhb@FreeBSD.org> <1123704605.54957.8.camel@realtime.exit.com> In-Reply-To: <1123704605.54957.8.camel@realtime.exit.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-6" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200508101638.27087.jhb@FreeBSD.org> Cc: Andre Oppermann , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:57:49 -0000 On Wednesday 10 August 2005 04:10 pm, Frank Mayhar wrote: > On Wed, 2005-08-10 at 09:11 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > I think this is the model that BSD/OS employed > > for SMP in its 4.x series before they did their version of SMPng. > > I didn't grunge around in the scheduler (much), but as far as I'm aware > BSD/OS 4.x used the Big Giant Lock mechanism just as FreeBSD did, and > for the same reason. I believe that at some point during the 4.x series they added a scheduler lock that covered just enough to allow threads that weren't asleep in the kernel to be switched to without require the big giant lock and that it was a pretty decent performance win over the earlier single BGL ala FreeBSD 4.x. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 10 22:21:07 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3728516A41F; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:21:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C898043D53; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:21:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j7AMK4Da076366; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:20:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:20:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20050810.162006.48492066.imp@bsdimp.com> To: jhb@freebsd.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <200508100911.50004.jhb@FreeBSD.org> References: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> <200508100911.50004.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:20:04 -0600 (MDT) Cc: andre@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:21:07 -0000 In message: <200508100911.50004.jhb@FreeBSD.org> John Baldwin writes: : First, you might want to go find a copy of "Unix Systems for Modern : Architectures: Symmetric Multiprocessing and Caching for Kernel Programmers" : by Curt Schimmel as he describes this model as one of the early SMP models : for UNIX kernels before fine-grained locking was used. (It's known as a : master-slave system IIRC). I think this is the model that BSD/OS employed : for SMP in its 4.x series before they did their version of SMPng. Solbourne's OS/MP version 4.0[ABC] used this approach. It was called at the time 'Assymetric Multi Processing' or ASMP. All kernel traffic went to CPU0, while user jobs were scheduled for the additional CPUs. Since it was BSD 4.2 based kernel, it used spl locking as well as having a big kernel lock for CPU0. There was no other locking in the kernel than at the entry/exit to the kernel. OS/MP 4.1 and later used true SMP locking. 4.0D, iirc, used a modified version of ASMP locking that would allow only one CPU into the whole kernel at a time, but that CPU floated around. The engineer doing the work said it gave better performance for higher cpu work loads because CPU0 wouldn't have to be interrupted all the time. OS/MP 4.1 performed much better than OS/MP 4.0, and 4.0D better than 4.0C for what we would call today a 'world stone' test. Especially on the 12 CPU machines. You'd be trading locking overhead for latency if you push the ideas that you have too far. If only one CPU can be used for the kernel, then if the other CPU wants to use kernel services, it has to queue the request to cpu0 and then sit idle. Maybe this isn't a big deal for your workload, but for many workloads it results in lower performance. Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 11 04:20:07 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C32C16A41F for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 04:20:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from mrout2.yahoo.com (mrout2.yahoo.com [216.145.54.172]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0EA943D55 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 04:20:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from minion.local.neville-neil.com (proxy7.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.98]) by mrout2.yahoo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/y.out) with ESMTP id j7B4IJZ2039525; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 11:10:01 +0900 Message-ID: From: gnn@freebsd.org To: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20050810.162006.48492066.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> <200508100911.50004.jhb@FreeBSD.org> <20050810.162006.48492066.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.12.2 (99 Luftballons) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.7 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Sanj=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/21.3.50 (powerpc-apple-darwin8.1.0) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 04:20:07 -0000 But, the question, which is interesting to me for other reasons (namely putting in various real-time schedulers) was not answered. Do we currently have the requisite primitives to implement different schedulers or is there still a lot of jiggery/pokery required? Thanks, George From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 11 07:07:04 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E670316A41F; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 07:07:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from delight.idiom.com (delight.idiom.com [216.240.32.16]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E6643D46; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 07:07:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [216.240.32.1]) by delight.idiom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 599812165C2; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 00:07:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.2] (home.elischer.org [216.240.48.38]) by idiom.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j7B7738i097077; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 00:07:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@elischer.org) Message-ID: <42FAF913.40101@elischer.org> Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 00:06:59 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050424 X-Accept-Language: en, hu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnn@freebsd.org References: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> <200508100911.50004.jhb@FreeBSD.org> <20050810.162006.48492066.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 07:07:05 -0000 gnn@freebsd.org wrote: > But, the question, which is interesting to me for other reasons > (namely putting in various real-time schedulers) was not answered. Do > we currently have the requisite primitives to implement different > schedulers or is there still a lot of jiggery/pokery required? An attempt was made to create a scheduler API (see sched.h) As it has only been used for 4BSD and ULE we do not yet know how successful the abstraction was, but theoretically it shouldbe relatively easy to slot in a different scheduler. Anything that is missing probably should be added. > > Thanks, > George > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 10 21:14:10 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEDCF16A41F; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:14:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3944743D48; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:14:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [192.168.254.14] (imini.samsco.home [192.168.254.14]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j7ALPv4c010990; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:25:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <42FA6E0E.4070205@samsco.org> Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:13:50 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050416 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin References: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> <200508100911.50004.jhb@FreeBSD.org> <1123704605.54957.8.camel@realtime.exit.com> <200508101638.27087.jhb@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <200508101638.27087.jhb@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=3.8 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on pooker.samsco.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 11:43:39 +0000 Cc: frank@exit.com, Andre Oppermann , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:14:10 -0000 John Baldwin wrote: > On Wednesday 10 August 2005 04:10 pm, Frank Mayhar wrote: > >>On Wed, 2005-08-10 at 09:11 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: >> >>>I think this is the model that BSD/OS employed >>>for SMP in its 4.x series before they did their version of SMPng. >> >>I didn't grunge around in the scheduler (much), but as far as I'm aware >>BSD/OS 4.x used the Big Giant Lock mechanism just as FreeBSD did, and >>for the same reason. > > > I believe that at some point during the 4.x series they added a scheduler lock > that covered just enough to allow threads that weren't asleep in the kernel > to be switched to without require the big giant lock and that it was a pretty > decent performance win over the earlier single BGL ala FreeBSD 4.x. > So when a syscall is made on an AP, does it get serviced on the same AP (assuming that the lock is available and no sleeping is needed), or does it get serviced my the BSP? Where kernel threads explicitely pinned to the BSP? Was the APIC explicitely programmed to deliver only to the BSP? Scott From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 11 13:35:39 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B92216A41F for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:35:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marks@ripe.net) Received: from postman.ripe.net (postman.ripe.net [193.0.0.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0232A43D48 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:35:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from marks@ripe.net) Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id 358092481A; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:35:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57BD12404B; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:35:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from laptop.santcroos.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.10/8.11.6) with SMTP id j7BDZbmq005240; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:35:37 +0200 Received: (nullmailer pid 23018 invoked by uid 1001); Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:35:37 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:35:37 +0200 From: Mark Santcroos To: Craig Rodrigues Message-ID: <20050811133537.GA96558@laptop.santcroos.net> References: <20050803200143.GA70735@crodrigues.org> <200508051049.26158.jhb@FreeBSD.org> <20050805162234.GA96585@crodrigues.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050805162234.GA96585@crodrigues.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.052775 / -5.9 X-RIPE-Signature: 5efe9109fe21c88ea3655c672f8695fb Cc: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [RFC] Kernel patches for compilation with gcc 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:35:39 -0000 On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 12:22:34PM -0400, Craig Rodrigues wrote: > On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 10:49:25AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > > You need to get the acpi_wakeup changes reviewed. Not saving the gdt and idt > > descriptors across suspend/resume would be very disastrous. > > I sent a separate e-mail to njl@ and marks@ about the acpi_wakeup patch. > The patch was suggested to me by kan@. He suggested that > I remove the static variables which clashed with the global variables > of the same name, and to remove asm calls which saved them in acpi_wakeup.c This is an heads-up that I didn't forget you but didn't have time yet to review it. Mark -- RIPE NCC - Delft University of Technology - The FreeBSD Project marks@ripe.net - m.a.santcroos@ewi.tudelft.nl - marks@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 11 14:41:37 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 309E616A420; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:41:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mv.twc.weather.com (mv.twc.weather.com [65.212.71.225]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3045643D49; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:41:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [10.50.40.201] (Not Verified[65.202.103.25]) by mv.twc.weather.com with NetIQ MailMarshal (v6, 0, 3, 8) id ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:56:26 -0400 From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 09:13:10 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> <20050810.162006.48492066.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200508110913.11867.jhb@FreeBSD.org> Cc: gnn@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:41:37 -0000 On Wednesday 10 August 2005 10:10 pm, gnn@freebsd.org wrote: > But, the question, which is interesting to me for other reasons > (namely putting in various real-time schedulers) was not answered. Do > we currently have the requisite primitives to implement different > schedulers or is there still a lot of jiggery/pokery required? Yes, there is some room for different schedulers, but the idea of using a master/slave SMP system is not ust a different scheduler, but an entirely different SMP architecture. That said, if you added one more sched_foo call for synchronous kernel entry in trap() and syscall(), you probably could provide a master/slave setup via a custom scheduler. It would be more optimal to also tweak the low-level routing of interrupts to CPUs on architectures that support it as well, though that would not be required. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 11 15:09:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0208616A41F for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:09:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andre@freebsd.org) Received: from c00l3r.networx.ch (c00l3r.networx.ch [62.48.2.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F9443D45 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:09:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andre@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 26307 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2005 14:51:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO freebsd.org) ([62.48.0.53]) (envelope-sender ) by c00l3r.networx.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 11 Aug 2005 14:51:15 -0000 Message-ID: <42FB6A3B.8A464F26@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:09:47 +0200 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin References: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> <20050810.162006.48492066.imp@bsdimp.com> <200508110913.11867.jhb@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnn@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:09:50 -0000 John Baldwin wrote: > > On Wednesday 10 August 2005 10:10 pm, gnn@freebsd.org wrote: > > But, the question, which is interesting to me for other reasons > > (namely putting in various real-time schedulers) was not answered. Do > > we currently have the requisite primitives to implement different > > schedulers or is there still a lot of jiggery/pokery required? > > Yes, there is some room for different schedulers, but the idea of using a > master/slave SMP system is not ust a different scheduler, but an entirely > different SMP architecture. That said, if you added one more sched_foo call > for synchronous kernel entry in trap() and syscall(), you probably could > provide a master/slave setup via a custom scheduler. It would be more > optimal to also tweak the low-level routing of interrupts to CPUs on > architectures that support it as well, though that would not be required. This is the answer I was looking for. Thanks. -- Andre From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 11 15:36:17 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5265516A430; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:36:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mv.twc.weather.com (mv.twc.weather.com [65.212.71.225]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D0F43D46; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:36:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [10.50.40.201] (Not Verified[65.202.103.25]) by mv.twc.weather.com with NetIQ MailMarshal (v6, 0, 3, 8) id ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 11:50:47 -0400 From: John Baldwin To: Scott Long Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 11:21:45 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <42F9ECF2.8080809@freebsd.org> <200508101638.27087.jhb@FreeBSD.org> <42FA6E0E.4070205@samsco.org> In-Reply-To: <42FA6E0E.4070205@samsco.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200508111121.46546.jhb@FreeBSD.org> Cc: frank@exit.com, Andre Oppermann , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Special schedulers, one CPU only kernel, one only userland X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:36:17 -0000 On Wednesday 10 August 2005 05:13 pm, Scott Long wrote: > John Baldwin wrote: > > On Wednesday 10 August 2005 04:10 pm, Frank Mayhar wrote: > >>On Wed, 2005-08-10 at 09:11 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > >>>I think this is the model that BSD/OS employed > >>>for SMP in its 4.x series before they did their version of SMPng. > >> > >>I didn't grunge around in the scheduler (much), but as far as I'm aware > >>BSD/OS 4.x used the Big Giant Lock mechanism just as FreeBSD did, and > >>for the same reason. > > > > I believe that at some point during the 4.x series they added a scheduler > > lock that covered just enough to allow threads that weren't asleep in the > > kernel to be switched to without require the big giant lock and that it > > was a pretty decent performance win over the earlier single BGL ala > > FreeBSD 4.x. > > So when a syscall is made on an AP, does it get serviced on the same AP > (assuming that the lock is available and no sleeping is needed), or does > it get serviced my the BSP? Where kernel threads explicitely pinned to > the BSP? Was the APIC explicitely programmed to deliver only to the > BSP? I think the AP would block on the BGL in the stuff BSD/OS did, but Schimmel points out that that can be non-optimal (SMP in 4.x was basically about the worst possible idea according to Schimmel). A better implementation of master/slave is for all syscalls, traps, and interrupts to run only on the BSP and have the APs just run in userland. I.e. they could take over a thread that had made it to userret (when you get to userret, you would mark the thread as a user thread somwhow) and when a thread running on an AP wanted to enter the kernel (syscall or trap), it would have to stick the thread on the runqueue for the BSP and go look for another user thread. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 11 16:12:48 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5E3116A41F for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:12:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from m.ehinger@ltur.de) Received: from posty.gateway-inter.net (posty.gateway-inter.net [213.144.19.86]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 922B943D48 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:12:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from m.ehinger@ltur.de) To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: From: m.ehinger@ltur.de Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:12:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: sysctl_proc calls handler twice X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:12:49 -0000 Hi, can someone explain why a proc sysctl (add via SYSCTL_PROC or SYSCTL_ADD_PROC) calls the handler twice if i read the sysctl only once? Is this the normal behaviour? How can i prevent this? Thanks in advance Maik From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 12 11:49:46 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D123C16A41F; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:49:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5673043D7D; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:49:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEE861C4; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:49:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.228.37]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BC6161C1; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:49:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4609133D44; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:49:28 +0200 (CEST) To: Colin Percival References: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> <20050807.101746.68985623.imp@bsdimp.com> <42F636BE.3020906@freebsd.org> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:49:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <42F636BE.3020906@freebsd.org> (Colin Percival's message of "Sun, 07 Aug 2005 09:28:46 -0700") Message-ID: <8664ub4bp3.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -5.3/5.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on tim.des.no Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:49:46 -0000 Colin Percival writes: > M. Warner Losh wrote: > > Is there some reason you've reinvated fetch as well? What does > > phttpget do that fetch(1) or fetch(3) doesn't? The only thing that > > looks like it might is pipelining mode, which would be better in the > > base fetch program, imho. > Yes, pipelined HTTP. Basically, I spent six months on-and-off, and > at least two weeks of actual work, trying to fit pipelined HTTP into > fetch(3)... but the design of that library is all around the idea of > fetching a single file at once. In the end I gave up and wrote my > own code (phttpget) in under 24 hours. You are mistaken. Pipelined HTTP can be implemented in libfetch with the same ease (and the same limitations) as FTP connection caching, which was included from the start. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 12 13:50:19 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E4416A41F for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:50:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd4mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6148543D48 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:50:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from pd5mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr5so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.181]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IL400HNR392K580@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml6so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.150]) by pd5mr5so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IL400083392PQ40@pd5mr5so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.0.60] (S0106006067227a4a.vc.shawcable.net [24.87.209.6]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)) with ESMTP id <0IL40051J392U5@l-daemon> for freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 06:39:01 -0700 From: Colin Percival In-reply-to: <8664ub4bp3.fsf@xps.des.no> To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= Message-id: <42FCA675.7090300@freebsd.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42F62C5F.6000609@freebsd.org> <20050807.101746.68985623.imp@bsdimp.com> <42F636BE.3020906@freebsd.org> <8664ub4bp3.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050724) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding portsnap to the base system X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:50:19 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Colin Percival writes: >>Yes, pipelined HTTP. Basically, I spent six months on-and-off, and >>at least two weeks of actual work, trying to fit pipelined HTTP into >>fetch(3)... but the design of that library is all around the idea of >>fetching a single file at once. In the end I gave up and wrote my >>own code (phttpget) in under 24 hours. > > You are mistaken. Pipelined HTTP can be implemented in libfetch with > the same ease (and the same limitations) as FTP connection caching, > which was included from the start. Well, err... go ahead, then. I'm not going to tell the author of a library that his library can't be modified to include a feature; all I can do is point out that my best efforts were insufficient. I can see that it would be very easy to implement _persistent_ HTTP, but implementing _pipelined_ HTTP is quite a different matter... Colin Percival From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 12 16:27:35 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C8516A41F for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:27:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pjd@garage.freebsd.pl) Received: from mail.garage.freebsd.pl (arm132.internetdsl.tpnet.pl [83.17.198.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A04EC43D48 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:27:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from pjd@garage.freebsd.pl) Received: by mail.garage.freebsd.pl (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 20D4E52C2F; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:27:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dlq219.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl [83.24.46.219]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.garage.freebsd.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id B851952BC4; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:27:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:27:19 +0200 From: Pawel Jakub Dawidek To: m.ehinger@ltur.de Message-ID: <20050812162719.GA27362@garage.freebsd.pl> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key-URL: http://people.freebsd.org/~pjd/pjd.asc X-OS: FreeBSD 7.0-CURRENT i386 User-Agent: mutt-ng devel (FreeBSD) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on mail.garage.freebsd.pl X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 required=3.0 tests=RCVD_IN_NJABL_DUL, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL autolearn=no version=3.0.4 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysctl_proc calls handler twice X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:27:35 -0000 --LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 06:12:14PM +0200, m.ehinger@ltur.de wrote: +> Hi, +>=20 +> can someone explain why a proc sysctl (add via SYSCTL_PROC or SYSCTL_ADD= _PROC) calls the handler twice if i read the sysctl only +> once? Is this the normal behaviour? Yes, AFAIR first call is done to find out how much memory should be allocated and second one is request for a real data. +> How can i prevent this? You can't, try to live with it. --=20 Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl pjd@FreeBSD.org http://www.FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! --LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC/M3nForvXbEpPzQRAq9QAKDv+ark3mm5lkMwFRAFoWhKVCcKYwCfWAxm azNs8HzAnm+W9wlLaFD/mbk= =0VsD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LQksG6bCIzRHxTLp--