From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 16 05:46:20 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DD9816A41F; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 05:46:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from smtp.omnis.com (smtp.omnis.com [216.239.128.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18B2C43D48; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 05:46:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from [204.68.178.34] (cpe-66-75-60-23.san.res.rr.com [66.75.60.23]) by smtp-relay.omnis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7227820068A3; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:46:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4350CE50.8080704@ebs.gr> References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <20051015053003.GB28137@soaustin.net> <4350CE50.8080704@ebs.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <5739E97B-7EDC-4971-9EA5-01A44688A981@softweyr.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Wes Peters Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:46:16 -0700 To: Panagiotis Astithas X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:49:51 +0000 Cc: tux@pinguru.net, wes@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, mitsuru@riken.jp, Norikatsu Shigemura , rtdean@cytherianage.net, sugimura@jp.FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 05:46:20 -0000 On Oct 15, 2005, at 2:39 AM, Panagiotis Astithas wrote: > Mark Linimon wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 09:15:07PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: >> >>> I don't mind moving the eclipse ports from java to devel, but all >>> the other eclipse ports are add-ins to eclipse and should >>> probably be classified along with eclipse. >>> >> [adding freebsd-java to the Cc:] >> For some background, there's been on-and-off discussion on -java >> about how the java category was never really a good idea. None of >> the other languages have their own primary category. In particular >> we've completely failed to train our users to send 'java' PRs only >> for problems with the JVMs and 'ports' PRs for things in ports/java. >> >>> In particular, if eclipse is a 'devel' tool, I don't see how CDT >>> and phpeclipse are editors. GEF isn't a graphics library, it's >>> a graphical emulation framework for eclipse, which is (again) a >>> development tool. > > Although I agree with everything you say here, I can't see how this > is an argument against the fact that GEF and CDT most probably > belong to devel. Unless I'm mistaken and you were not making one? I was making an argument that regardless of where eclipse migrates too, all of it's little pieces should go right along with it, rather than getting spread all over the ports system. > Regarding the splitting of devel and www categories, perhaps we > should wait until the port tree migrates to subversion (yeah, > right :-))? Or hell freezes over, whichever happens first? -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters wes@softweyr.com From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 16 05:57:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEA5E16A41F; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 05:57:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9197E43D46; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 05:57:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 197DF2F80; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:57:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:57:29 -0500 To: Wes Peters Message-ID: <20051016055729.GA10933@soaustin.net> References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <20051015053003.GB28137@soaustin.net> <4350CE50.8080704@ebs.gr> <5739E97B-7EDC-4971-9EA5-01A44688A981@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5739E97B-7EDC-4971-9EA5-01A44688A981@softweyr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:49:51 +0000 Cc: tux@pinguru.net, wes@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, mitsuru@riken.jp, Norikatsu Shigemura , rtdean@cytherianage.net, sugimura@jp.FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 05:57:30 -0000 On Sat, Oct 15, 2005 at 10:46:16PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > >Regarding the splitting of devel and www categories, perhaps we > >should wait until the port tree migrates to subversion (yeah, > >right :-))? > > Or hell freezes over, whichever happens first? /me does a poll to see how many people want to do 500-1000 repocopies. Hands? Anyone? mcl From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 16 10:20:40 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 967D016A420; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:20:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from past@ebs.gr) Received: from fly.ebs.gr (fly.ebs.gr [62.103.84.177]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6071743D46; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:20:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from past@ebs.gr) Received: from ebs.gr (root@hal.ebs.gr [10.1.1.2]) by fly.ebs.gr (8.12.9p1/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j9GAKX9V033767; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:20:33 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from past@ebs.gr) Received: from [10.1.1.200] (pptp.ebs.gr [10.1.1.200]) by ebs.gr (8.13.3/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9GAKY4e020921; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:20:35 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from past@ebs.gr) Message-ID: <43522953.6050700@ebs.gr> Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:20:03 +0300 From: Panagiotis Astithas Organization: EBS Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051008) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <20051015053003.GB28137@soaustin.net> <4350CE50.8080704@ebs.gr> <5739E97B-7EDC-4971-9EA5-01A44688A981@softweyr.com> In-Reply-To: <5739E97B-7EDC-4971-9EA5-01A44688A981@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:49:51 +0000 Cc: tux@pinguru.net, wes@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, mitsuru@riken.jp, Norikatsu Shigemura , rtdean@cytherianage.net, sugimura@jp.FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:20:40 -0000 Wes Peters wrote: > > On Oct 15, 2005, at 2:39 AM, Panagiotis Astithas wrote: > >> Mark Linimon wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 09:15:07PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: >>> >>>> I don't mind moving the eclipse ports from java to devel, but all >>>> the other eclipse ports are add-ins to eclipse and should probably >>>> be classified along with eclipse. >>>> >>> [adding freebsd-java to the Cc:] >>> For some background, there's been on-and-off discussion on -java >>> about how the java category was never really a good idea. None of >>> the other languages have their own primary category. In particular >>> we've completely failed to train our users to send 'java' PRs only >>> for problems with the JVMs and 'ports' PRs for things in ports/java. >>> >>>> In particular, if eclipse is a 'devel' tool, I don't see how CDT >>>> and phpeclipse are editors. GEF isn't a graphics library, it's a >>>> graphical emulation framework for eclipse, which is (again) a >>>> development tool. >> >> >> Although I agree with everything you say here, I can't see how this >> is an argument against the fact that GEF and CDT most probably belong >> to devel. Unless I'm mistaken and you were not making one? > > > I was making an argument that regardless of where eclipse migrates too, > all of it's little pieces should go right along with it, rather than > getting spread all over the ports system. Since you snipped Mark's reply in your quote, let me clarify that my comments above were directed to Mark and I agree with your point. However I'm not sure whether there has to be a strict rule that every eclipse-foo port should go in the same category. Perhaps the emacs precedent should be followed. See below. Norikatsu Shigemura wrote: > On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:14:59 +0900 (JST) > Norikatsu Shigemura wrote: > >>Hi eclipse and eclipse related ports maintainers and users! >> Some time ago, someone suggested that eclipse and eclipse >> related ports should be located on proper categories. I >> think so. So I suggest following repocopy list. Anyone, >> do you have any idea? > > > Oops, I missed. Eclipse is very similar to Emacs: > 1. IDE > Emacs is a one of IDE(or platform). And anyone doesn't > think that it is ONLY a elisp interpreter. But it is > a editor. So I think that it is no problem that Eclipse > may be categolize to editors. > > 2. Extension-able > Emacs has many extention modules like news reader, language > support, games, ... > > 3. Mode > Emacs has many mode for descriptions like C, Perl, Java, ... > > 4. others > It must be that there are other similar feature:-). > > java/eclipse -> editors/eclipse > java/eclipse-EPIC -> editors/eclipse-EPIC > java/eclipse-cdt -> editors/eclipse-cdt > java/eclipse-checkstyle -> devel/eclipse-checkstyle > java/eclipse-clay-core -> databases/eclipse-clay-core > java/eclipse-devel -> editors/eclipse-devel > java/eclipse-emf -> editors/eclipse-emf > java/eclipse-examples -> devel/eclipse-examples > java/eclipse-gef -> editors/eclipse-gef > java/eclipse-gef-examples -> editors/eclipse-gef-examples > java/eclipse-langpack -> editors/eclipse-langpack > java/eclipse-log4e -> editors/eclipse-log4e > java/eclipse-lomboz -> devel/eclipse-lomboz > java/eclipse-pmd -> devel/eclipse-pmd > java/eclipse-quantum -> databases/eclipse-quantum > java/eclipse-sqlexplorer -> databases/eclipse-sqlexplorer > java/eclipse-sysdeo-tomcat -> www/eclipse-sysdeo-tomcat > java/eclipse-uml -> editors/eclipse-uml > java/eclipse-v4all -> editors/eclipse-v4all > java/eclipse-vep -> editors/eclipse-vep > java/eclipse-vep-examples -> editors/eclipse-vep-examples > java/eclipse-viplugin -> editors/eclipse-viplugin > java/eclipseme -> devel/eclipseme > java/phpeclipse -> editors/phpeclipse This sounds fine, too. Cheers, Panagiotis From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 16 22:35:04 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AEEB16A41F; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:35:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) Received: from arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr [139.124.41.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E35BD43D46; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:35:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) Received: from arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j9GMZ1k3058781; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:35:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) Received: (from rv@localhost) by arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j9GMZ0Mi058780; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:35:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) X-Authentication-Warning: arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr: rv set sender to herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr using -f Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:35:00 +0200 From: Herve Quiroz To: Vizion Message-ID: <20051016223500.GA58676@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Vizion , freebsd-java@freebsd.org, freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org References: <200510161343.42178.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200510161343.42178.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:35:04 -0000 On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 01:43:41PM -0700, Vizion wrote: > Sounds crazy to me... > Scattering eclipse tools over the whole ports collections is, to my mind, a > retrograde, rather than a positive step. There are another 290 pus eclipse > tools to bring on board!! > I would continue to advocate for a single collection We already discussed this matter some time ago. And the discussion just died by itself IIRC. You keep telling us about the "290 eclipse tools" that exist all around the world but what I just see: $ ls /usr/ports/java | grep eclipse | wc -l --> 24 So we are speaking of 24 ports here. Nothing close to 290 if you ask me. Besides, you keep whining about the poor philosophy behind the whole ports framework and speaking of the closed-mind of its developers who cannot see the "pure true genious solution" that you suggested. I don't really think this will encourage people to try and understand your approach. Fine. As it was the case with the latest discussion we had on the subject, I think I'll just find another way to spend my time and energy (shooting PRs or discussing and fixing the existing framework). Herve From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 16 20:15:07 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA53416A41F; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:15:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com (dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com [68.99.120.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE29343D46; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:15:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051016201510.GXFS2325.dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com@dns1>; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:15:10 -0400 From: Vizion To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:10:12 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <5739E97B-7EDC-4971-9EA5-01A44688A981@softweyr.com> <43522953.6050700@ebs.gr> In-Reply-To: <43522953.6050700@ebs.gr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510161310.18807.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:32:29 +0000 Cc: Wes Peters , wes@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, mitsuru@riken.jp, tux@pinguru.net, Norikatsu Shigemura , rtdean@cytherianage.net, sugimura@jp.FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Linimon , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:15:08 -0000 On Sunday 16 October 2005 03:20, the author Panagiotis Astithas contributed to the dialogue on- Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >Wes Peters wrote: >> On Oct 15, 2005, at 2:39 AM, Panagiotis Astithas wrote: >>> Mark Linimon wrote: >>>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 09:15:07PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: >>>>> I don't mind moving the eclipse ports from java to devel, but all >>>>> the other eclipse ports are add-ins to eclipse and should probably >>>>> be classified along with eclipse. >>>> >>>> [adding freebsd-java to the Cc:] >>>> For some background, there's been on-and-off discussion on -java >>>> about how the java category was never really a good idea. None of >>>> the other languages have their own primary category. In particular >>>> we've completely failed to train our users to send 'java' PRs only >>>> for problems with the JVMs and 'ports' PRs for things in ports/java. >>>> >>>>> In particular, if eclipse is a 'devel' tool, I don't see how CDT >>>>> and phpeclipse are editors. GEF isn't a graphics library, it's a >>>>> graphical emulation framework for eclipse, which is (again) a >>>>> development tool. >>> >>> Although I agree with everything you say here, I can't see how this >>> is an argument against the fact that GEF and CDT most probably belong >>> to devel. Unless I'm mistaken and you were not making one? >> >> I was making an argument that regardless of where eclipse migrates too, >> all of it's little pieces should go right along with it, rather than >> getting spread all over the ports system. > >Since you snipped Mark's reply in your quote, let me clarify that my >comments above were directed to Mark and I agree with your point. >However I'm not sure whether there has to be a strict rule that every >eclipse-foo port should go in the same category. Perhaps the emacs >precedent should be followed. See below. > >Norikatsu Shigemura wrote: > > On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:14:59 +0900 (JST) > > > > Norikatsu Shigemura wrote: > >>Hi eclipse and eclipse related ports maintainers and users! > >> Some time ago, someone suggested that eclipse and eclipse > >> related ports should be located on proper categories. I > >> think so. So I suggest following repocopy list. Anyone, > >> do you have any idea? > > > > Oops, I missed. Eclipse is very similar to Emacs: > > 1. IDE > > Emacs is a one of IDE(or platform). And anyone doesn't > > think that it is ONLY a elisp interpreter. But it is > > a editor. So I think that it is no problem that Eclipse > > may be categolize to editors. > > > > 2. Extension-able > > Emacs has many extention modules like news reader, language > > support, games, ... > > > > 3. Mode > > Emacs has many mode for descriptions like C, Perl, Java, ... > > > > 4. others > > It must be that there are other similar feature:-). > > > > java/eclipse -> editors/eclipse > > java/eclipse-EPIC -> editors/eclipse-EPIC > > java/eclipse-cdt -> editors/eclipse-cdt > > java/eclipse-checkstyle -> devel/eclipse-checkstyle > > java/eclipse-clay-core -> databases/eclipse-clay-core > > java/eclipse-devel -> editors/eclipse-devel > > java/eclipse-emf -> editors/eclipse-emf > > java/eclipse-examples -> devel/eclipse-examples > > java/eclipse-gef -> editors/eclipse-gef > > java/eclipse-gef-examples -> editors/eclipse-gef-examples > > java/eclipse-langpack -> editors/eclipse-langpack > > java/eclipse-log4e -> editors/eclipse-log4e > > java/eclipse-lomboz -> devel/eclipse-lomboz > > java/eclipse-pmd -> devel/eclipse-pmd > > java/eclipse-quantum -> databases/eclipse-quantum > > java/eclipse-sqlexplorer -> databases/eclipse-sqlexplorer > > java/eclipse-sysdeo-tomcat -> www/eclipse-sysdeo-tomcat > > java/eclipse-uml -> editors/eclipse-uml > > java/eclipse-v4all -> editors/eclipse-v4all > > java/eclipse-vep -> editors/eclipse-vep > > java/eclipse-vep-examples -> editors/eclipse-vep-examples > > java/eclipse-viplugin -> editors/eclipse-viplugin > > java/eclipseme -> devel/eclipseme > > java/phpeclipse -> editors/phpeclipse > >This sounds fine, too. Sounds crazy to me... Scattering eclipse tools over the whole ports collections is, to my mind, a retrograde, rather than a positive step. There are another 290 pus eclipse tools to bring on board!! I would continue to advocate for a single collection david -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after completing engineroom refit. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 01:55:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CCF616A41F; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 01:55:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from smtp.omnis.com (smtp.omnis.com [216.239.128.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 247E943D49; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 01:55:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from [204.68.178.34] (cpe-66-75-60-23.san.res.rr.com [66.75.60.23]) by smtp-relay.omnis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 145572006885; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:55:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <43522953.6050700@ebs.gr> References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <20051015053003.GB28137@soaustin.net> <4350CE50.8080704@ebs.gr> <5739E97B-7EDC-4971-9EA5-01A44688A981@softweyr.com> <43522953.6050700@ebs.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Wes Peters Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:55:25 -0700 To: Panagiotis Astithas X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:32:29 +0000 Cc: tux@pinguru.net, wes@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, mitsuru@riken.jp, Norikatsu Shigemura , rtdean@cytherianage.net, sugimura@jp.FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 01:55:28 -0000 On Oct 16, 2005, at 3:20 AM, Panagiotis Astithas wrote: > Wes Peters wrote: > >> On Oct 15, 2005, at 2:39 AM, Panagiotis Astithas wrote: >>> >>> Although I agree with everything you say here, I can't see how >>> this is an argument against the fact that GEF and CDT most >>> probably belong to devel. Unless I'm mistaken and you were not >>> making one? >>> >> I was making an argument that regardless of where eclipse >> migrates too, all of it's little pieces should go right along >> with it, rather than getting spread all over the ports system. > > Since you snipped Mark's reply in your quote, let me clarify that > my comments above were directed to Mark and I agree with your > point. However I'm not sure whether there has to be a strict rule > that every eclipse-foo port should go in the same category. Perhaps > the emacs precedent should be followed. See below. That's exactly the point I was (and am) trying to argue against. I have to resort to 'make search' to find emacs tools these days because they've been thrown all over the ports system by well-meaning but misguided contributors, and I'd hate to see that happen to eclipse tools too. As to devel vs. editors, eclipse is hardly a text editor. Emacs at least started that way. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters wes@softweyr.com From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 13:15:07 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215A716A41F; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:15:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from achill@matrix.gatewaynet.com) Received: from matrix.gatewaynet.com (host2.dynacom.ondsl.gr [62.103.35.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24B5A43D73; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:15:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from achill@matrix.gatewaynet.com) Received: from matrix.gatewaynet.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by matrix.gatewaynet.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j9HD9bSv031740; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:09:37 +0300 Received: from localhost (achill@localhost) by matrix.gatewaynet.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id j9HD9bPx031736; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:09:37 +0300 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:09:37 +0300 (EEST) From: Achilleus Mantzios To: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:16:54 +0000 Cc: tux@pinguru.net, wes@freebsd.org, freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, mitsuru@riken.jp, Norikatsu Shigemura , rtdean@cytherianage.net, sugimura@jp.FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Mark Linimon , freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:15:07 -0000 O Wes Peters έγραψε στις Oct 16, 2005 : > > On Oct 16, 2005, at 3:20 AM, Panagiotis Astithas wrote: > > As to devel vs. editors, eclipse is hardly a text editor. Emacs at > least started that way. Perhaps i missed something, but why all that bother with eclipse, when (at least) all the java add-ons for it are easily managed by the tool itself? For possible JNI eclipse plugins (if any) a port definately makes sense but for the majority (java) i think the community over engineers the case instead of working on more vital issues of the operation system. I am not quoting directly any of the fellows participating in the discussion, i just grabbed the last email to write my lines. > > Wes Peters > wes@softweyr.com > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-java@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-java > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-java-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- -Achilleus From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 15:30:26 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC57B16A420; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:30:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) Received: from arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr [139.124.41.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0497F43D53; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:30:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) Received: from arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j9HFUOHp009594; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:30:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) Received: (from rv@localhost) by arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j9HFUOX6009478; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:30:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) X-Authentication-Warning: arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr: rv set sender to herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr using -f Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:30:24 +0200 From: Herve Quiroz To: Wes Peters Message-ID: <20051017153024.GA23494@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Wes Peters , Panagiotis Astithas , freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, Norikatsu Shigemura , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <20051015053003.GB28137@soaustin.net> <4350CE50.8080704@ebs.gr> <5739E97B-7EDC-4971-9EA5-01A44688A981@softweyr.com> <43522953.6050700@ebs.gr> <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, Norikatsu Shigemura , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:30:27 -0000 [recipient list trimmed down] On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 06:55:25PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > That's exactly the point I was (and am) trying to argue against. I > have to resort to 'make search' to find emacs tools these days > because they've been thrown all over the ports system by well-meaning > but misguided contributors, and I'd hate to see that happen to > eclipse tools too. Greg (glewis@) already suggested to create a new *virtual* category for Eclipse ports to ease the search of a port. That could do the trick... Or else you may just use FreshPorts.org facilities to look for an Eclipse plugin: http://www.freshports.org/search.php?stype=name&method=match&query=eclipse&num=100&orderby=category&orderbyupdown=asc&search=Search Again, I don't think we should make an exception of Eclipse. All other ports comply to the convention and for instance there is no 'apache' non-virtual category. Regarding Apache, we are speaking of at least 116 'mod_*' ports while there are only 24 eclipse ports. Moreover, 'apache' is not even a virtual category. But that's probably because all 'mod_*' ports are in the same 'www' non-virtual category. So my take is that either we group all Eclipse ports into the same non-virtual category (but not a new 'eclipse' category which makes no sense) or we scater them but tag them by having them all in the 'eclipse' virtual category. Herve From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 15:49:05 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3703416A420; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:49:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com (dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com [68.99.120.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E2B43D55; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:48:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051017154906.VUNV7298.dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com@dns1>; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:49:06 -0400 From: Vizion To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:44:01 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> <20051017153024.GA23494@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> In-Reply-To: <20051017153024.GA23494@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510170844.06438.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, Norikatsu Shigemura , Mark Linimon , Herve Quiroz , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:49:05 -0000 On Monday 17 October 2005 08:30, the author Herve Quiroz contributed to the dialogue on- Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >[recipient list trimmed down] > >On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 06:55:25PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: >> That's exactly the point I was (and am) trying to argue against. I >> have to resort to 'make search' to find emacs tools these days >> because they've been thrown all over the ports system by well-meaning >> but misguided contributors, and I'd hate to see that happen to >> eclipse tools too. > >Greg (glewis@) already suggested to create a new *virtual* category for >Eclipse ports to ease the search of a port. That could do the trick... > >Or else you may just use FreshPorts.org facilities to look for an >Eclipse plugin: > >http://www.freshports.org/search.php?stype=name&method=match&query=eclipse&n >um=100&orderby=category&orderbyupdown=asc&search=Search > >Again, I don't think we should make an exception of Eclipse. All other >ports comply to the convention and for instance there is no 'apache' >non-virtual category. Regarding Apache, we are speaking of at least 116 >'mod_*' ports while there are only 24 eclipse ports. Moreover, 'apache' >is not even a virtual category. But that's probably because all 'mod_*' >ports are in the same 'www' non-virtual category. > >So my take is that either we group all Eclipse ports into the same >non-virtual category (but not a new 'eclipse' category which makes no >sense) or we scater them but tag them by having them all in the >'eclipse' virtual category. You guys just do not get it. I have spent over 45 five years in the computer industry and am fed up with technologists who think in terms of their precious systems rather than on behalf of people that use them. You do not get it that the ports systems, as currently configured, is out of date as far as the newly emerging framework centric applications model as against the traditional application centric model. e now need a category /ports/eclipse and not this ridiculous scattering arounf the system or some half hearted 'virtual' solution that gets in the way of a real framework centric solution. I am sick to death of hearing the same old appeal based on "mot making an exception" which really means "I want to bury my head in the sand" and stick to the old ways of doing things. And before anyone tells me -- yes I am angry. david > >Herve >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after completing engineroom refit. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 15:54:56 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A010A16A41F for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:54:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com (dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com [68.99.120.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4E0543D4C for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:54:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051017155453.VXOB7298.dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com@dns1> for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:54:53 -0400 Received: from mx2.freebsd.org ([216.136.204.119]) by lakecmmtai07.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051017155004.BJOT2837.lakecmmtai07.coxmail.com@mx2.freebsd.org> for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:50:04 -0400 Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 011955C3A8; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:49:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-ports@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15A5F16A432; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:49:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-ports@freebsd.org) X-Original-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3703416A420; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:49:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com (dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com [68.99.120.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E2B43D55; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:48:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051017154906.VUNV7298.dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com@dns1>; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:49:06 -0400 From: Vizion To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:49:53 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> <20051017153024.GA23494@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> In-Reply-To: <20051017153024.GA23494@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510170849.54013.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Errors-To: owner-freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Fwd: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:54:56 -0000 ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports Date: Monday 17 October 2005 08:44 From: Vizion To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, Norikatsu Shigemura , Mark Linimon , Herve Quiroz , Panagiotis Astithas , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org On Monday 17 October 2005 08:30, the author Herve Quiroz contributed to the dialogue on- Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >[recipient list trimmed down] > >On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 06:55:25PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: >> That's exactly the point I was (and am) trying to argue against. I >> have to resort to 'make search' to find emacs tools these days >> because they've been thrown all over the ports system by well-meaning >> but misguided contributors, and I'd hate to see that happen to >> eclipse tools too. > >Greg (glewis@) already suggested to create a new *virtual* category for >Eclipse ports to ease the search of a port. That could do the trick... > >Or else you may just use FreshPorts.org facilities to look for an >Eclipse plugin: > >http://www.freshports.org/search.php?stype=name&method=match&query=eclipse&n >um=100&orderby=category&orderbyupdown=asc&search=Search > >Again, I don't think we should make an exception of Eclipse. All other >ports comply to the convention and for instance there is no 'apache' >non-virtual category. Regarding Apache, we are speaking of at least 116 >'mod_*' ports while there are only 24 eclipse ports. Moreover, 'apache' >is not even a virtual category. But that's probably because all 'mod_*' >ports are in the same 'www' non-virtual category. > >So my take is that either we group all Eclipse ports into the same >non-virtual category (but not a new 'eclipse' category which makes no >sense) or we scater them but tag them by having them all in the >'eclipse' virtual category. You guys just do not get it. I have spent over 45 five years in the computer industry and am fed up with technologists who think in terms of their precious systems rather than on behalf of people that use them. You do not get it that the ports systems, as currently configured, is out of date as far as the newly emerging framework centric applications model as against the traditional application centric model. e now need a category /ports/eclipse and not this ridiculous scattering arounf the system or some half hearted 'virtual' solution that gets in the way of a real framework centric solution. I am sick to death of hearing the same old appeal based on "mot making an exception" which really means "I want to bury my head in the sand" and stick to the old ways of doing things. And before anyone tells me -- yes I am angry. david >Herve >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after completing engineroom refit. _______________________________________________ freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ------------------------------------------------------- -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after completing engineroom refit. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 18:56:34 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 300FF16A420; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:56:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Jan.Grant@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirg.bris.ac.uk (dirg.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.102]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8AE43D8C; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:56:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Jan.Grant@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.16.62]) by dirg.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.51) id 1ERa9u-00005Z-Ge; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:56:32 +0100 Received: from cmjg (helo=localhost) by mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1ERa9l-000141-Vc; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:56:22 +0100 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:56:21 +0100 (BST) From: Jan Grant X-X-Sender: cmjg@mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk To: Vizion In-Reply-To: <200510170844.06438.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Message-ID: References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> <20051017153024.GA23494@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> <200510170844.06438.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Jan Grant X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: - Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, Norikatsu Shigemura , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Mark Linimon , Herve Quiroz , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:56:34 -0000 On Mon, 17 Oct 2005, Vizion wrote: > You guys just do not get it. > > I have spent over 45 five years in the computer industry and am fed up with > technologists who think in terms of their precious systems rather than on > behalf of people that use them. This is an open-source project; patches speak louder than words. There is a process outlined in the porters' handbook (that I've pointed you at before) for getting ports system rejigs to even be considered. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/makefile-categories.html#PROPOSING-CATEGORIES (Given the ability of existing tools to search for ports in "half-assed" virtual categories, I think you overstate your case.) Cheers, jan -- jan grant, ILRT, University of Bristol. http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/ Tel +44 (0)117 3317661 http://ioctl.org/jan/ HP-unix: Open Sauce product, available in 57 distributions. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 19:55:44 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D535916A420; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:55:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com (dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com [68.99.120.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4527B43D48; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:55:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051017195547.XSJX2325.dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com@dns1>; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:55:47 -0400 From: Vizion To: Jan Grant Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:50:45 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <200510170844.06438.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510171250.50481.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, Norikatsu Shigemura , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Mark Linimon , Herve Quiroz , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:55:44 -0000 On Monday 17 October 2005 11:56, the author Jan Grant contributed to the=20 dialogue on- Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports:=20 >On Mon, 17 Oct 2005, Vizion wrote: >> You guys just do not get it. >> >> I have spent over 45 five years in the computer industry and am fed up >> with technologists who think in terms of their precious systems rather >> than on behalf of people that use them. > >This is an open-source project; patches speak louder than words. There >is a process outlined in the porters' handbook (that I've pointed you at >before) for getting ports system rejigs to even be considered. > >http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/makefile= =2Dc >ategories.html#PROPOSING-CATEGORIES > >(Given the ability of existing tools to search for ports in "half-assed" >virtual categories, I think you overstate your case.) > Sorry but those who think this way do not get it.. You cut out a highly significant part of my posting so I repeat it in full. >> I have spent over 45 five years in the computer industry and am fed up w= ith >>technologists who think in terms of their precious systems rather than on >>behalf of people that use them. Your response : > patches speak louder than words. Gives additional weight to my words. You are reinforcing my point. The=20 division between the perceptions of a technological old guard and the emrgi= ng=20 needs of a new breed of users whose attitudes come from a user's appreciati= on=20 of the extra-technological implications of technological changes. I would=20 argue that the technologist is always one step behind the consumer in=20 appreciating the realworld potential of the products of technology. =20 I saw microsoft meteoric rise just because those who were providing patches= =20 and code in the **ix fraternity would not listen to the demands of system=20 users. The technologist who thought in terms of system did not heed the nee= ds=20 of users.=20 The problem can be both identified and summarized by the notion of that=20 technological competence needs non-technological direction if it is going t= o=20 be produce results that are socially sustainable.=20 I would appreciate it if, in the light of the history of modern day computi= ng,=20 you would not so obviously seek to belittle the voices of those who do not= =20 see things through an internal FreeBSD methodolgical filter. >>You do not get it that the ports systems, as currently configured, is =A0= out=20 >>of date as far as the newly emerging framework centric applications model= =20 >>as against the traditional application centric model. =46ramework centric applications need their own hierarchy so that plugins c= an be=20 managed within the hierarchy. So my comment: >>We now need a category /ports/eclipse and not this ridiculous scattering =A0>>arounf the system or some half hearted 'virtual' solution that gets in= the =A0>>way of a real framework centric solution. Was, I feel, more apt than your response: >(Given the ability of existing tools to search for ports in "half-assed" >virtual categories, I think you overstate your case.) Which shows again how those who think that way do not get it. =20 The issue is not about searching it is about having a hierarchy that works = for=20 a framework centric processing model! Your response: >There is a process outlined in the porters' handbook (that I've pointed yo= u=20 > at before) for getting ports system rejigs to even be considered. Shows again do not get it. You do not think about user you are thinking abo= ut=20 users can be made to work with current internal regulatory processes. This= =20 approach can be seen as somewhat condescending. The user does not want to be embroiled in the process of determining how us= er=20 needs are to be met or weighed down by a bureaucracy that was devised to me= et=20 yesterday's problems. Those who maintain/create the bureaucracy need to fin= d=20 ways of usig their accumulated wisdom to help recreate and reconfigure rath= er=20 than demand that others jump through hoops.=20 It was the failure of the **ix community to modify its relationship to its= =20 users that led to the rise of the poorer technology of microsoft. =20 Those of us within the Freebsd community need to grasp the fact that the=20 future of comuting applications lies increasingly in common framework centr= ic=20 approaches to processing that encompass common developmental and applicatio= n=20 interfaces. hence division by application type (which is how ports are=20 categorized) is not the way to go. >>I am sick to death of hearing the same old appeal based on "mot making an >> exception" which really means "I want to bury my head in the sand" and=20 >>stick to the old ways of doing things. >>And before anyone tells me -- yes I am angry. And will probably stay angry until some of the old guard begin to get it an= d=20 not just in this area. I do not want FreeBSD to finish up as just another carrier for Linux=20 applications. It is not enough to satisfy our existing user base. It is not= =20 enough to stick to the ways things have been done in the past. The ports system is fantastic BUT it is now showing its age.=20 The freedsd docs system is incredibly good but it does not provide context= =20 driven help. The freebsd install system is good but it does not have a user ventric=20 installation process. The configuration system needs a web interface. If all our energies go towards increasing system functionality rather then= =20 identifying how we can catching up on user convenience then in the battle f= or=20 tomorrow's users we will lose out to competition. Will will finish up satisfying our technological impulses and losing touch= =20 with our potential place in tomorrow's world My two pennorth david =2D-=20 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Tauru= s. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal afte= r=20 completing engineroom refit. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 21:28:01 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31BC316A41F; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:28:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from neuhauser@sigpipe.cz) Received: from isis.sigpipe.cz (fw.sigpipe.cz [62.245.70.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A9C43D6A; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:27:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from neuhauser@sigpipe.cz) Received: by isis.sigpipe.cz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B7D1E1F87BFD; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:27:48 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:27:48 +0200 From: Roman Neuhauser To: Wes Peters , Panagiotis Astithas , freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, Norikatsu Shigemura , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20051017212748.GD71766@isis.sigpipe.cz> Mail-Followup-To: Wes Peters , Panagiotis Astithas , freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, Norikatsu Shigemura , freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <20051015053003.GB28137@soaustin.net> <4350CE50.8080704@ebs.gr> <5739E97B-7EDC-4971-9EA5-01A44688A981@softweyr.com> <43522953.6050700@ebs.gr> <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> <20051017153024.GA23494@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051017153024.GA23494@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:28:01 -0000 # herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr / 2005-10-17 17:30:24 +0200: > [recipient list trimmed down] > > On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 06:55:25PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > > That's exactly the point I was (and am) trying to argue against. I > > have to resort to 'make search' to find emacs tools these days > > because they've been thrown all over the ports system by well-meaning > > but misguided contributors, and I'd hate to see that happen to > > eclipse tools too. > > Greg (glewis@) already suggested to create a new *virtual* category for > Eclipse ports to ease the search of a port. That could do the trick... Wes said: "I have to resort to 'make search'" which presumably means he'd prefer to just ls /usr/ports/$emacs_category; while 'make search' is a bearable interface (FMPOV), you can't beat a ls. Hey, what about materialized virtual categories? A bunch of symlinks, and everyone's happy. Or is that too much for CVS? -- How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb? You don't know, man. You don't KNOW. Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991 From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 22:05:21 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F027216A422 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:05:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from swhetzel@gmail.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C4F843D49 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:05:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from swhetzel@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id t13so799432wxc for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:05:18 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=b4ilNI8vSoL4K69W7TR+Q6jr4HWmUeGecPf72tVZ4hbzjAgXfAoqdW1Sq5mTFVAsWfEtZ2ULYl+SFv1FiQlGdnfkapvxo4GJxSAevdDdyXakUgCLYoljEOySW9d3Lb4VG7z1rmIPz+u0zjcScCZ5V8DS411yt7Ws/dhMFXQBcxs= Received: by 10.70.75.15 with SMTP id x15mr2588813wxa; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.53.4 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <790a9fff0510171505i4010cc05yc30f67d459d1a0e4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:05:18 -0500 From: Scot Hetzel To: Wes Peters , freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-java@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20051017212748.GD71766@isis.sigpipe.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <20051015053003.GB28137@soaustin.net> <4350CE50.8080704@ebs.gr> <5739E97B-7EDC-4971-9EA5-01A44688A981@softweyr.com> <43522953.6050700@ebs.gr> <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> <20051017153024.GA23494@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> <20051017212748.GD71766@isis.sigpipe.cz> Cc: Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:05:21 -0000 On 10/17/05, Roman Neuhauser wrote: > Wes said: "I have to resort to 'make search'" which presumably means > he'd prefer to just ls /usr/ports/$emacs_category; while 'make > search' is a bearable interface (FMPOV), you can't beat a ls. > > Hey, what about materialized virtual categories? A bunch of > symlinks, and everyone's happy. Or is that too much for CVS? > It would probably be too much for CVS to handle, instead someone could modify bsd.port.mk to create the virtual category directories and then symbolicly link the ports into these categories. The following could be added to bsd.port.mk virtualport: .for CATEGORY in ${CATEGORIES} .if not exist ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY} mkdir ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY} .endif .if not exist ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY}/${PORTNAME} ln -s ${.CURDIR} ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY}/${PORTNAME} .endif .endfor which would add the link for a specific port. The we would need to add a virtualports target (bsd.subdir.mk?) that would decend thru all the ports creating all the symbolic links (similar to the "make readmes" target used in /usr/ports/ ). Also there would need to be another target that would remove all the symbolic links, that way you could re-create them without worrying about removed symbolic links pointing to non-existant ports. NOTE: Non of this code has been tested. If you want this feature, work on improving the code and submitting it as a patch to the PR database for Ports Managers to accept/reject. Scot -- DISCLAIMER: No electrons were mamed while sending this message. Only slightly bruised. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 22:27:10 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1F8A16A41F; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:27:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com (dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com [68.99.120.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 256B843D45; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:27:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051017222715.BFRY2325.dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com@dns1>; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:27:15 -0400 From: Vizion To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:22:14 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <20051017212748.GD71766@isis.sigpipe.cz> <790a9fff0510171505i4010cc05yc30f67d459d1a0e4@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <790a9fff0510171505i4010cc05yc30f67d459d1a0e4@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510171522.17180.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Cc: freebsd-java@freebsd.org, Wes Peters , Scot Hetzel , freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:27:10 -0000 On Monday 17 October 2005 15:05, the author Scot Hetzel contributed to the dialogue on- Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >On 10/17/05, Roman Neuhauser wrote: >> Wes said: "I have to resort to 'make search'" which presumably means >> he'd prefer to just ls /usr/ports/$emacs_category; while 'make >> search' is a bearable interface (FMPOV), you can't beat a ls. >> >> Hey, what about materialized virtual categories? A bunch of >> symlinks, and everyone's happy. Or is that too much for CVS? > >It would probably be too much for CVS to handle, instead someone could >modify bsd.port.mk to create the virtual category directories and then >symbolicly link the ports into these categories. > >The following could be added to bsd.port.mk > >virtualport: >.for CATEGORY in ${CATEGORIES} >.if not exist ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY} > mkdir ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY} >.endif >.if not exist ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY}/${PORTNAME} > ln -s ${.CURDIR} ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY}/${PORTNAME} >.endif >.endfor > >which would add the link for a specific port. The we would need to >add a virtualports target (bsd.subdir.mk?) that would decend thru all >the ports creating all the symbolic links (similar to the "make >readmes" target used in /usr/ports/ ). > >Also there would need to be another target that would remove all the >symbolic links, that way you could re-create them without worrying >about removed symbolic links pointing to non-existant ports. > >NOTE: Non of this code has been tested. If you want this feature, work >on improving the code and submitting it as a patch to the PR database >for Ports Managers to accept/reject. > >Scot Would this provide an opportunity to have for example: /usr/ports/eclipse /usr/ports/eclipse/plugins/ so that the plugins could be selected for installation from make config in /usr/ports and manage the installation of the plugins (rather similar to what happens for php)? david >-- >DISCLAIMER: >No electrons were mamed while sending this message. Only slightly bruised. >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after completing engineroom refit. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 23:14:51 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA4E816A41F for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:14:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from edwin@mavetju.org) Received: from mail3out.barnet.com.au (mail3out.barnet.com.au [202.83.176.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B470543D49 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:14:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from edwin@mavetju.org) Received: by mail3out.barnet.com.au (Postfix, from userid 27) id E9FB1877D8E; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:14:43 +1000 (EST) X-Viruscan-Id: <435430630001346D816BDD@BarNet> Received: from mail3-auth.barnet.com.au (mail3.barnet.com.au [202.83.176.16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.barnet.com.au", Issuer "BarNet Root Certificate Authority" (verified OK)) by mail3.barnet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1025877D8C for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:14:43 +1000 (EST) Received: from k7.mavetju (edwin-3.int.barnet.com.au [10.10.12.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "edwin.adsl.barnet.com.au", Issuer "BarNet Root Certificate Authority" (not verified)) by mail3-auth.barnet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46115877D41 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:14:43 +1000 (EST) Received: by k7.mavetju (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E0FA1629F; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:14:40 +1000 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME::Lite 3.01 (F2.73; A1.66; B3.05; Q3.03) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:14:40 UT From: Edwin Groothuis To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20051017231440.E0FA1629F@k7.mavetju> Subject: [FreeBSD Ports Version Check] Newer available versions for ports you maintain X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:14:51 -0000 Dear freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, As maintainer of one or more FreeBSD ports, I would like to inform you that a new version is available for the following port(s): Port Current version New version URLs ------------------------------------ --------------- ----------- ---- java/eclipse-quantum 2.4.1 2.4.2 [1] Please keep in mind that... - the check was only done in relation to the current version, so it is possible that the new version is not the newest version available on the master sites. - the full check of all ports takes more than two days, so it is possible that a new version is already commited. In that case, please ignore this email. - this is the only time you will get an alert about the above mentioned port versions on the below mentioned URLs. When the port version is updated, a check will again be done for it. When a new URL with a newer version is found, a check will be done for it again. - Not interested in further alerts? Send me the email address you are received it on for a full block, or the name of the port for a port-only block, or the name of a host for a host-only block. - An overview of all newly discovered distfiles can be found at http://edwin.adsl.barnet.com.au/~edwin/ports/. The page keeps unchanged until the next run. URLS [1] http://jaist.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/quantum/quantum2.4.2_e3.0.zip http://umn.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/quantum/quantum2.4.2_e3.0.zip From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 18 11:42:44 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75AB216A41F; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:42:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from past@ebs.gr) Received: from fly.ebs.gr (fly.ebs.gr [62.103.84.177]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7F7A43D45; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:42:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from past@ebs.gr) Received: from ebs.gr (root@hal.ebs.gr [10.1.1.2]) by fly.ebs.gr (8.12.9p1/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j9IBgc9V042101; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:42:38 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from past@ebs.gr) Received: from [10.1.1.158] (pc158.ebs.gr [10.1.1.158]) by ebs.gr (8.13.3/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9IBgh4l066645; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:42:46 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from past@ebs.gr) Message-ID: <4354DF92.4050402@ebs.gr> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:42:10 +0300 From: Panagiotis Astithas Organization: EBS Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051008) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vizion References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <20051017212748.GD71766@isis.sigpipe.cz> <790a9fff0510171505i4010cc05yc30f67d459d1a0e4@mail.gmail.com> <200510171522.17180.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> In-Reply-To: <200510171522.17180.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, Wes Peters , Scot Hetzel , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:42:44 -0000 Vizion wrote: > On Monday 17 October 2005 15:05, the author Scot Hetzel contributed to the > dialogue on- > Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: > > >>On 10/17/05, Roman Neuhauser wrote: >> >>> Wes said: "I have to resort to 'make search'" which presumably means >>> he'd prefer to just ls /usr/ports/$emacs_category; while 'make >>> search' is a bearable interface (FMPOV), you can't beat a ls. >>> >>> Hey, what about materialized virtual categories? A bunch of >>> symlinks, and everyone's happy. Or is that too much for CVS? >> >>It would probably be too much for CVS to handle, instead someone could >>modify bsd.port.mk to create the virtual category directories and then >>symbolicly link the ports into these categories. >> >>The following could be added to bsd.port.mk >> >>virtualport: >>.for CATEGORY in ${CATEGORIES} >>.if not exist ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY} >> mkdir ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY} >>.endif >>.if not exist ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY}/${PORTNAME} >> ln -s ${.CURDIR} ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY}/${PORTNAME} >>.endif >>.endfor >> >>which would add the link for a specific port. The we would need to >>add a virtualports target (bsd.subdir.mk?) that would decend thru all >>the ports creating all the symbolic links (similar to the "make >>readmes" target used in /usr/ports/ ). >> >>Also there would need to be another target that would remove all the >>symbolic links, that way you could re-create them without worrying >>about removed symbolic links pointing to non-existant ports. >> >>NOTE: Non of this code has been tested. If you want this feature, work >>on improving the code and submitting it as a patch to the PR database >>for Ports Managers to accept/reject. >> >>Scot > > > > Would this provide an opportunity to have for example: > /usr/ports/eclipse > /usr/ports/eclipse/plugins/ > > so that the plugins could be selected for installation from make config > in /usr/ports and manage the installation of the plugins (rather similar to > what happens for php)? This can be done today, with an eclipse-plugins meta-port, similar to the php5-extensions one. I may even find some time to work on it. Cheers, Panagiotis From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 14:11:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A91516A41F; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:11:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) Received: from arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr [139.124.41.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAEED43D48; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:11:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) Received: from arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j9HEBcvg031514; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:11:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) Received: (from rv@localhost) by arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j9HEBQxf031451; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:11:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) X-Authentication-Warning: arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr: rv set sender to herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr using -f Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:11:25 +0200 From: Herve Quiroz To: Achilleus Mantzios Message-ID: <20051017141125.GA25725@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Achilleus Mantzios , Wes Peters , tux@pinguru.net, wes@freebsd.org, freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, mitsuru@riken.jp, Norikatsu Shigemura , rtdean@cytherianage.net, sugimura@jp.FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Mark Linimon , Panagiotis Astithas , freebsd-java@freebsd.org References: <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:04:42 +0000 Cc: Wes Peters , wes@freebsd.org, freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, mitsuru@riken.jp, tux@pinguru.net, Norikatsu Shigemura , rtdean@cytherianage.net, sugimura@jp.FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Mark Linimon , freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:11:50 -0000 Hi Achilleus, On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 04:09:37PM +0300, Achilleus Mantzios wrote: > Perhaps i missed something, > but why all that bother with eclipse, when (at least) all the > java add-ons for it are easily managed by the tool itself? > > For possible JNI eclipse plugins (if any) a port definately > makes sense but for the majority (java) i think the community > over engineers the case instead of working on more vital issues > of the operation system. You are right this is becoming a huge issue while it should probably not. The main concern, IMHO, is that the 'java' category could disapear as a main category (a non-virtual category) some day. There are indeed several people (including me) who believe that it was a mistake in the first place and I am starting to think that me should effectively get rid of it before more and more ports are added into it. Take as an example the recent add of the java/eclipse-webtools port. We decided some time ago to avoid adding new ports in the 'java' physicial category when they are not *stricly* Java support-related (that is, JDK, Sun official libraries and APIs, and such tools). OTOH I can understand why Norikatsu just did commit the port in 'java' because all other Eclipse ports were already there. I believe that moving the ports that do not rely to core Java support from the 'java' main category would allow commiters to avoid such practices. That's why I agree with this whole "eclipse repocopy" concern. Now, I am probably not well aware of the actual use of each Eclipse package to be be the right person to decide whether we should have them all in the same main category or scattered all over the ports tree. But if I am to give my two cents on the topic, I believe that if we want to get rid of the "Java exception" (the only language with its own non-virtual category, no specific PKGNAMEPREFIX while perl, python and other have one...) we should not produce another exception, namely the "Eclipse exception". Hence I think we should do just the same as for the many other "applications with many modules" that exists in the tree (Emacs is IMHO a good example) and thus I think scattering them is a fine approach. To sum up, scatter them or put them in one single place, but please move them from the 'java' category once the ports tree slush is over. That will be 24 ports less to move when we decide to get rid of the non-virtual 'java' category and moreover this will allow new Eclipse ports to comply with the defined conventions for Java ports. Herve From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 18 14:35:51 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C157816A41F; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:35:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com (dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com [68.99.120.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744D243D48; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:35:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051018143555.OAUZ2325.dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com@dns1>; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:35:55 -0400 From: Vizion To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:30:52 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <200510171522.17180.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> <4354DF92.4050402@ebs.gr> In-Reply-To: <4354DF92.4050402@ebs.gr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510180730.56069.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Cc: freebsd-java@freebsd.org, Wes Peters , Scot Hetzel , freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:35:52 -0000 On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:42, the author Panagiotis Astithas contributed to the dialogue on- Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >Vizion wrote: >> On Monday 17 October 2005 15:05, the author Scot Hetzel contributed to >> the dialogue on- >> >> Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >>>On 10/17/05, Roman Neuhauser wrote: >>>> Wes said: "I have to resort to 'make search'" which presumably means >>>> he'd prefer to just ls /usr/ports/$emacs_category; while 'make >>>> search' is a bearable interface (FMPOV), you can't beat a ls. >>>> >>>> Hey, what about materialized virtual categories? A bunch of >>>> symlinks, and everyone's happy. Or is that too much for CVS? >>> >>>It would probably be too much for CVS to handle, instead someone could >>>modify bsd.port.mk to create the virtual category directories and then >>>symbolicly link the ports into these categories. >>> >>>The following could be added to bsd.port.mk >>> >>>virtualport: >>>.for CATEGORY in ${CATEGORIES} >>>.if not exist ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY} >>> mkdir ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY} >>>.endif >>>.if not exist ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY}/${PORTNAME} >>> ln -s ${.CURDIR} ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY}/${PORTNAME} >>>.endif >>>.endfor >>> >>>which would add the link for a specific port. The we would need to >>>add a virtualports target (bsd.subdir.mk?) that would decend thru all >>>the ports creating all the symbolic links (similar to the "make >>>readmes" target used in /usr/ports/ ). >>> >>>Also there would need to be another target that would remove all the >>>symbolic links, that way you could re-create them without worrying >>>about removed symbolic links pointing to non-existant ports. >>> >>>NOTE: Non of this code has been tested. If you want this feature, work >>>on improving the code and submitting it as a patch to the PR database >>>for Ports Managers to accept/reject. >>> >>>Scot >> >> Would this provide an opportunity to have for example: >> /usr/ports/eclipse >> /usr/ports/eclipse/plugins/ >> >> so that the plugins could be selected for installation from make config >> in /usr/ports and manage the installation of the plugins (rather similar >> to what happens for php)? > >This can be done today, with an eclipse-plugins meta-port, similar to >the php5-extensions one. I may even find some time to work on it. Wow That is great That is what I have been arguing for for three months!! david > >Cheers, > >Panagiotis >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after completing engineroom refit. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 18 15:21:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6B3316A41F; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:21:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) Received: from arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr [139.124.41.108]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C1E43D4C; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:21:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) Received: from arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j9IFLPQf016753; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:21:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) Received: (from rv@localhost) by arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j9IFLOcR016752; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:21:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr) X-Authentication-Warning: arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr: rv set sender to herve.quiroz@esil.univ-mrs.fr using -f Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:21:24 +0200 From: Herve Quiroz To: Vizion Message-ID: <20051018152124.GA16544@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Vizion , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-java@freebsd.org, Wes Peters , Scot Hetzel , Panagiotis Astithas , freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <200510171522.17180.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> <4354DF92.4050402@ebs.gr> <200510180730.56069.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200510180730.56069.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: Wes Peters , Scot Hetzel , freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:21:29 -0000 On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 07:30:52AM -0700, Vizion wrote: > >This can be done today, with an eclipse-plugins meta-port, similar to > >the php5-extensions one. I may even find some time to work on it. > > Wow > > That is great > > That is what I have been arguing for for three months!! Yes, but you have been arguing for /usr/ports/eclipse and /usr/ports/eclipse/plugins which are both major changes to ports framework whereas php5-extensions is just a port as any other in the *existing* framework. And I remember suggesting something similar with a plugin support using MASTERDIR months ago. Anyway, if this is just a matter of having the same as lang/php5-extensions, I fully agree with the approach. Moreover, I am glad to see that we have come to agree on some point (although I don't know yet if people from freebsd-eclipse@ will effectively chose that particular approach). Now regarding the new non-virtual category, I think this goes beyond the scope of the freebsd-java@ team so I'll let others (freebsd-ports@ and probably portmgr@) deal with this new issue. FWIW, I remember some earlier discussion regarding the creation of a new category (IIRC it was about splitting 'net' into 'net-p2p' and such) where hundreds of ports were concerned and the discussion not only took a long time but as you can see these new categories never hit the ports tree. So I guess you'll have to be patient and explain your point in a much humble fashion than what you did for this eclipse plugin framework discussion. Herve From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 18 16:01:22 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6670E16A41F; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:01:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com (lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com [68.99.120.82]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B733543D46; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:01:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051018160128.SWPK17511.lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com@dns1>; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:01:28 -0400 From: Vizion To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:56:24 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <4354DF92.4050402@ebs.gr> <200510180730.56069.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> In-Reply-To: <200510180730.56069.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510180856.27998.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Cc: Wes Peters , Scot Hetzel , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:01:22 -0000 On Tuesday 18 October 2005 07:30, the author Vizion contributed to the dialogue on- Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:42, the author Panagiotis Astithas > contributed to the dialogue on- > > Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >>Vizion wrote: >>> On Monday 17 October 2005 15:05, the author Scot Hetzel contributed to >>> the dialogue on- >>> >>> Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >>>>On 10/17/05, Roman Neuhauser wrote: >>>>> Wes said: "I have to resort to 'make search'" which presumably means >>>>> he'd prefer to just ls /usr/ports/$emacs_category; while 'make >>>>> search' is a bearable interface (FMPOV), you can't beat a ls. >>>>> >>>>> Hey, what about materialized virtual categories? A bunch of >>>>> symlinks, and everyone's happy. Or is that too much for CVS? >>>> >>>>It would probably be too much for CVS to handle, instead someone could >>>>modify bsd.port.mk to create the virtual category directories and then >>>>symbolicly link the ports into these categories. >>>> >>>>The following could be added to bsd.port.mk >>>> >>>>virtualport: >>>>.for CATEGORY in ${CATEGORIES} >>>>.if not exist ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY} >>>> mkdir ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY} >>>>.endif >>>>.if not exist ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY}/${PORTNAME} >>>> ln -s ${.CURDIR} ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY}/${PORTNAME} >>>>.endif >>>>.endfor >>>> >>>>which would add the link for a specific port. The we would need to >>>>add a virtualports target (bsd.subdir.mk?) that would decend thru all >>>>the ports creating all the symbolic links (similar to the "make >>>>readmes" target used in /usr/ports/ ). >>>> >>>>Also there would need to be another target that would remove all the >>>>symbolic links, that way you could re-create them without worrying >>>>about removed symbolic links pointing to non-existant ports. >>>> >>>>NOTE: Non of this code has been tested. If you want this feature, work >>>>on improving the code and submitting it as a patch to the PR database >>>>for Ports Managers to accept/reject. >>>> >>>>Scot >>> >>> Would this provide an opportunity to have for example: >>> /usr/ports/eclipse >>> /usr/ports/eclipse/plugins/ >>> >>> so that the plugins could be selected for installation from make config >>> in /usr/ports and manage the installation of the plugins (rather similar >>> to what happens for php)? >> >>This can be done today, with an eclipse-plugins meta-port, similar to >>the php5-extensions one. I may even find some time to work on it. > >Wow > >That is great > >That is what I have been arguing for for three months!! > >david BTW If you get time would there be any chance you could set up the localized plugin archive so that it conforms with Eclipse's expectation for plugin installation. Up until now, on a multi-user system, each user has to bring plugins into their individual work directories. This has led to different users inadvertently working with different plugin versions. One of the reasons I want to get the /usr/ports/eclipse/ and /usrports/eclipse/plugins hierarchies working is to have a systenatic method of ensuring devellopers are working with identical plugin versions. The ports tree system provides an ideal method of monitoring the plugins. The other advantage of the meta-port is that we will be immediately able to bring the remaining 300 plugins into freebsd. This would be a great leap forward david > >>Cheers, >> >>Panagiotis >>_______________________________________________ >>freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list >>http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports >>To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after completing engineroom refit. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 18 16:13:22 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F65916A41F; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:13:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com (dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com [68.99.120.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FCB743D49; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:13:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051018161332.UACQ7298.dukecmmtao01.coxmail.com@dns1>; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:13:32 -0400 From: Vizion To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:08:22 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <200510180730.56069.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> <20051018152124.GA16544@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> In-Reply-To: <20051018152124.GA16544@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510180908.26798.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Cc: Wes Peters , Scot Hetzel , freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, Herve Quiroz , freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:13:22 -0000 On Tuesday 18 October 2005 08:21, the author Herve Quiroz contributed to the dialogue on- Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 07:30:52AM -0700, Vizion wrote: >> >This can be done today, with an eclipse-plugins meta-port, similar to >> >the php5-extensions one. I may even find some time to work on it. >> >> Wow >> >> That is great >> >> That is what I have been arguing for for three months!! > >Yes, but you have been arguing for /usr/ports/eclipse and >/usr/ports/eclipse/plugins which are both major changes to ports >framework whereas php5-extensions is just a port as any other in the >*existing* framework. And I remember suggesting something similar with a >plugin support using MASTERDIR months ago. > >Anyway, if this is just a matter of having the same as >lang/php5-extensions, I fully agree with the approach. Moreover, I am >glad to see that we have come to agree on some point (although I don't >know yet if people from freebsd-eclipse@ will effectively chose that >particular approach). > >Now regarding the new non-virtual category, I think this goes beyond the >scope of the freebsd-java@ team so I'll let others (freebsd-ports@ and >probably portmgr@) deal with this new issue. FWIW, I remember some >earlier discussion regarding the creation of a new category (IIRC it was >about splitting 'net' into 'net-p2p' and such) where hundreds of ports >were concerned and the discussion not only took a long time but as you >can see these new categories never hit the ports tree. So I guess >you'll have to be patient and explain your point in a much humble >fashion than what you did for this eclipse plugin framework discussion. I just lost it -- for three months I have put up with being polite in response to knee jerk reactions about "not making exceptions" and repeated demonstrations of a mindset that does not understand the implications of framework centric computing. I remember all the ineffectual battles with system focussed people back in the early 70's and was horrified that we were unabole to counter the rise of MS because the **ix community was unable to wrest control of its development cycle from engineers and determine its future policy by reference to user requirements. I see this happening again. I would argue that the powerful combination of JVM and framework centric processing will make OS choice dependent upon how easy it is for the user to control everything via an interface like eclipse. I would like to see freebsd lead the way david > >Herve >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after completing engineroom refit. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 18 16:46:37 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19ED916A41F; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:46:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C333043D49; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:46:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 50E202FFB; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:46:36 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:46:36 -0500 To: Vizion Message-ID: <20051018164636.GC14192@soaustin.net> References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <200510180730.56069.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> <20051018152124.GA16544@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> <200510180908.26798.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200510180908.26798.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: linimon@lonesome.com (Mark Linimon) Cc: freebsd-java@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:46:37 -0000 On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 09:08:22AM -0700, Vizion wrote: > was horrified that we were unable to counter the rise of MS because > the **ix community was unable to wrest control of its development > cycle from engineers and determine its future policy by reference > to user requirements. If you haven't noticed, almost everyone who provides FreeBSD to you is a _volunteer_. Most of them are engineers or developers or system administrators or the like. They work on FreeBSD mostly because they consider it A Neat Thing; there's no money, and not much glory, in it otherwise. If you, personally, want to set up an entity that develops a FreeBSD- based product with a feature set defined on a completely user-driven basis (e.g. something like a "Linux distro"), feel free to do so. IMHO you would be meeting a lot of people's needs. I would even hope that you could make a solid commercial entity out of it. If it had a good enough business model, I would probably even send you a resume. But in the meantime, while we try to _listen_ to what the users want, in the end of the day what gets _built_ is what any individual contributor wants to build -- for whatever their own motivations are. Simply repeating over and over again that the developers are to some extent "bad guys" for not immediately changing the way that the code is set up to suit you personally is not going to provide any extra positive motivation to these individuals. But I suspect this point is going to be lost on you, because you seem to want it free, and your way, and right now. To the extent that that's true, I predict that you are going to continue to be very frustrated and unhappy with FreeBSD -- or, for that matter, any other community-based effort. Let me know if you get that funding together, I honestly think it would be an interesting project. mcl From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 18 17:14:20 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6214A16A41F; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:14:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phelms1@mindspring.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9EC43D48; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:14:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phelms1@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.228.72.239.dial1.denver1.level3.net ([4.228.72.239] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1ERv2W-0005VB-00; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:14:17 -0400 Message-ID: <43552DA8.1060002@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:15:20 -0600 From: Phil Helms User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Linimon References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <200510180730.56069.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> <20051018152124.GA16544@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> <200510180908.26798.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> <20051018164636.GC14192@soaustin.net> In-Reply-To: <20051018164636.GC14192@soaustin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, freebsd-java@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: phelms1@mindspring.com List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:14:20 -0000 It might be worth checking out the DragonFly BSD project: http://www.dragonflybsd.org/main/ Mark Linimon wrote: > > If you, personally, want to set up an entity that develops a FreeBSD- > based product with a feature set defined on a completely user-driven > basis (e.g. something like a "Linux distro"), feel free to do so. IMHO > you would be meeting a lot of people's needs. I would even hope that you > could make a solid commercial entity out of it. If it had a good enough > business model, I would probably even send you a resume. > -- Phil Helms phelms1@mindspring.com From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 18 17:26:14 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01DE116A41F; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:26:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com (lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com [68.99.120.82]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E76B43D46; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:26:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051018172620.VMIA17511.lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com@dns1>; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:26:20 -0400 From: Vizion To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:21:16 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <200510180908.26798.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> <20051018164636.GC14192@soaustin.net> In-Reply-To: <20051018164636.GC14192@soaustin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510181021.19354.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:26:14 -0000 On Tuesday 18 October 2005 09:46, the author Mark Linimon contributed to the dialogue on- Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 09:08:22AM -0700, Vizion wrote: >> was horrified that we were unable to counter the rise of MS because >> the **ix community was unable to wrest control of its development >> cycle from engineers and determine its future policy by reference >> to user requirements. > >If you haven't noticed, almost everyone who provides FreeBSD to you >is a _volunteer_. Most of them are engineers or developers or system >administrators or the like. They work on FreeBSD mostly because they >consider it A Neat Thing; there's no money, and not much glory, in it >otherwise. I know that -- from my own experience and contributions to the freebsd ports system. My view is that the validity of a particular point of view does not depend upon how much or how little someone has contributed to the community. Therefore I do not believe my contributions are relevant nor are arguemnts mande any better or any worse by the quality od contributions in other areas. I happen to believe that we are both, in this dialogue, making a contribution to FreeBSD. > >If you, personally, want to set up an entity that develops a FreeBSD- >based product with a feature set defined on a completely user-driven >basis (e.g. something like a "Linux distro"), feel free to do so. IMHO >you would be meeting a lot of people's needs. I would even hope that you >could make a solid commercial entity out of it. If it had a good enough >business model, I would probably even send you a resume. This sounds to me like the argument about if you have an argument with this governemnt you should go amnd live elsewhere.. sorry I do not buy that argument. I have been a freebsd user and contributor since its early days and am not in a hurry to go elsewhere. > >But in the meantime, while we try to _listen_ to what the users want, in >the end of the day what gets _built_ is what any individual contributor >wants to build -- for whatever their own motivations are. Agreed.. and this is where the dilemna comes in. The issue is do we build for users or for ourselves. To my mind there is an intelligent middle road. Something for ourselves and something for the wider commuity. That means having an eye on the needs of the users of tomorrow. This debate is to my mind a healthy oner fopr the FreeBSD community I will not make any apology for pursuing it-- because I believe it FreeBSD needs to concentrate on becoming more user focus and less technologically focussed. I aso make no apology for getting mad-- I do regard rule based responses such as -- we cant make an exception-- as narrow minded BS.. BUt hey that is not a good idea because {good reason focused on meeting user need} get my full attention! > >Simply repeating over and over again that the developers are to some >extent "bad guys" for not immediately changing the way that the code is >set up to suit you personally is not going to provide any extra positive >motivation to these individuals. Do not put me there -- I am a developer myself.. My comments are directed not at developers as a class - but at a mindset of certain developers who, with the best of intentions, see technology as a self sufficient discipline rather than seeing technology as a tool to serve the rest of the community. The former tends to look to the existing system to decide what is best to do next - the latter look to the needs of the external world. > >But I suspect this point is going to be lost on you, because you seem >to want it free, and your way, and right now. Please do not put words in my mouth -- I want decisions based upon the merit of the argument not on the inertia of precedent. So if I need to argue against the inertia will make no apology for doing so. >To the extent that that's >true, I predict that you are going to continue to be very frustrated and >unhappy with FreeBSD -- or, for that matter, any other community-based >effort. Who says I am unhappy with freebsd. after all I use it extensively and am installing it on another twelve machines during the next year. I find the community mutually helpful and enjoy it. I do get frustrated at times -- but frustration is good - you need to realise that my energy comes from a realization that we need to make good things even better - and not get hung up on yesterdays ways of doing things > >Let me know if you get that funding together, I honestly think it would >be an interesting project. Thanks -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after completing engineroom refit. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 19 08:23:36 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3A7F16A41F; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:23:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from past@ebs.gr) Received: from fly.ebs.gr (fly.ebs.gr [62.103.84.177]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99FA43D45; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:23:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from past@ebs.gr) Received: from ebs.gr (root@hal.ebs.gr [10.1.1.2]) by fly.ebs.gr (8.12.9p1/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j9J8NY9V045810; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:23:34 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from past@ebs.gr) Received: from [10.1.1.158] (pc158.ebs.gr [10.1.1.158]) by ebs.gr (8.13.3/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9J8Njks084252; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:23:46 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from past@ebs.gr) Message-ID: <4356026F.9020000@ebs.gr> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:23:11 +0300 From: Panagiotis Astithas Organization: EBS Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051008) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vizion References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <4354DF92.4050402@ebs.gr> <200510180730.56069.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> <200510180856.27998.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> In-Reply-To: <200510180856.27998.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, Wes Peters , Scot Hetzel , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:23:37 -0000 Vizion wrote: > On Tuesday 18 October 2005 07:30, the author Vizion contributed to the > dialogue on- > Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: > > >>On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:42, the author Panagiotis Astithas >>contributed to the dialogue on- >> >>Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >> >>>Vizion wrote: >>> >>>>On Monday 17 October 2005 15:05, the author Scot Hetzel contributed to >>>>the dialogue on- >>>> >>>> Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >>>> >>>>>On 10/17/05, Roman Neuhauser wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Wes said: "I have to resort to 'make search'" which presumably means >>>>>> he'd prefer to just ls /usr/ports/$emacs_category; while 'make >>>>>> search' is a bearable interface (FMPOV), you can't beat a ls. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hey, what about materialized virtual categories? A bunch of >>>>>> symlinks, and everyone's happy. Or is that too much for CVS? >>>>> >>>>>It would probably be too much for CVS to handle, instead someone could >>>>>modify bsd.port.mk to create the virtual category directories and then >>>>>symbolicly link the ports into these categories. >>>>> >>>>>The following could be added to bsd.port.mk >>>>> >>>>>virtualport: >>>>>.for CATEGORY in ${CATEGORIES} >>>>>.if not exist ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY} >>>>> mkdir ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY} >>>>>.endif >>>>>.if not exist ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY}/${PORTNAME} >>>>> ln -s ${.CURDIR} ${PORTSDIR}/${CATEGORY}/${PORTNAME} >>>>>.endif >>>>>.endfor >>>>> >>>>>which would add the link for a specific port. The we would need to >>>>>add a virtualports target (bsd.subdir.mk?) that would decend thru all >>>>>the ports creating all the symbolic links (similar to the "make >>>>>readmes" target used in /usr/ports/ ). >>>>> >>>>>Also there would need to be another target that would remove all the >>>>>symbolic links, that way you could re-create them without worrying >>>>>about removed symbolic links pointing to non-existant ports. >>>>> >>>>>NOTE: Non of this code has been tested. If you want this feature, work >>>>>on improving the code and submitting it as a patch to the PR database >>>>>for Ports Managers to accept/reject. >>>>> >>>>>Scot >>>> >>>>Would this provide an opportunity to have for example: >>>>/usr/ports/eclipse >>>>/usr/ports/eclipse/plugins/ >>>> >>>>so that the plugins could be selected for installation from make config >>>>in /usr/ports and manage the installation of the plugins (rather similar >>>>to what happens for php)? >>> >>>This can be done today, with an eclipse-plugins meta-port, similar to >>>the php5-extensions one. I may even find some time to work on it. >> >>Wow >> >>That is great >> >>That is what I have been arguing for for three months!! >> >>david > > > BTW > > If you get time would there be any chance you could set up the localized > plugin archive so that it conforms with Eclipse's expectation for plugin > installation. > > Up until now, on a multi-user system, each user has to bring plugins into > their individual work directories. This has led to different users > inadvertently working with different plugin versions. One of the reasons I > want to get the /usr/ports/eclipse/ and /usrports/eclipse/plugins hierarchies > working is to have a systenatic method of ensuring devellopers are working > with identical plugin versions. The ports tree system provides an ideal > method of monitoring the plugins. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. Eclipse plugins are stored in the 'features' and 'plugins' subdirectories. They are also cached in the .eclipse folder in the user's home directory. If a user somehow ends up with a corrupted cache, there is always the -clean invocation of eclipse that recreates it. If the problem you encountered stems from the default permissions on the eclipse directory, you could always change them to fit your needs (I know I do). Cheers, Panagiotis From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 18 14:48:16 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAF4916A420; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:48:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com (lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com [68.99.120.82]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C048B43D45; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:48:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051018144822.QLMI17511.lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com@dns1>; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:48:22 -0400 From: Vizion To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:43:13 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> <20051017141125.GA25725@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> In-Reply-To: <20051017141125.GA25725@arabica.esil.univ-mrs.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510180743.21623.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:35:02 +0000 Cc: Wes Peters , wes@freebsd.org, freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, mitsuru@riken.jp, tux@pinguru.net, Norikatsu Shigemura , rtdean@cytherianage.net, sugimura@jp.FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Linimon , Herve Quiroz , Achilleus Mantzios , freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:48:16 -0000 On Monday 17 October 2005 07:11, the author Herve Quiroz contributed to the dialogue on- Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >Hi Achilleus, > >On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 04:09:37PM +0300, Achilleus Mantzios wrote: >> Perhaps i missed something, >> but why all that bother with eclipse, when (at least) all the >> java add-ons for it are easily managed by the tool itself? >> >> For possible JNI eclipse plugins (if any) a port definately >> makes sense but for the majority (java) i think the community >> over engineers the case instead of working on more vital issues >> of the operation system. > >You are right this is becoming a huge issue while it should probably >not. > >The main concern, IMHO, is that the 'java' category could disapear as a >main category (a non-virtual category) some day. There are indeed >several people (including me) who believe that it was a mistake in the >first place and I am starting to think that me should effectively get >rid of it before more and more ports are added into it. Take as an >example the recent add of the java/eclipse-webtools port. We decided >some time ago to avoid adding new ports in the 'java' physicial category >when they are not *stricly* Java support-related (that is, JDK, Sun >official libraries and APIs, and such tools). OTOH I can understand why >Norikatsu just did commit the port in 'java' because all other Eclipse >ports were already there. I believe that moving the ports that do not >rely to core Java support from the 'java' main category would allow >commiters to avoid such practices. That's why I agree with this whole >"eclipse repocopy" concern. > >Now, I am probably not well aware of the actual use of each Eclipse >package to be be the right person to decide whether we should have them >all in the same main category or scattered all over the ports tree. But >if I am to give my two cents on the topic, I believe that if we want to >get rid of the "Java exception" (the only language with its own >non-virtual category, no specific PKGNAMEPREFIX while perl, python and >other have one...) we should not produce another exception, namely the >"Eclipse exception". Hence I think we should do just the same as for the >many other "applications with many modules" that exists in the tree >(Emacs is IMHO a good example) and thus I think scattering them is a >fine approach. There is a very practical reason for not scattering. The '"lets not make an exception" argument misses the point. Can not the practical needs of users rather than precedent be our guide here? Eclipse and other emerging framework centric computing environments are essentially different from traditional application centric computing. If we try and shoehorn franework centric ports into a ports system which is designed for application centric computing we are not giving equal weight to disparate needs. Framework centric environments are different and need different treatment. > >To sum up, scatter them or put them in one single place, but please move >them from the 'java' category once the ports tree slush is over. I agree eclipse does not belong in the java category - it, and any other subsantial framework centric port needs its own category. >That >will be 24 ports less to move when we decide to get rid of the >non-virtual 'java' category and moreover this will allow new Eclipse >ports to comply with the defined conventions for Java ports. > >Herve >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after completing engineroom refit. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 19 17:07:03 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F55716A41F for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:07:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andreas.kohn@gmail.com) Received: from vs159088.vserver.de (syndrom23.de [62.75.159.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C61443D72 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:06:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andreas.kohn@gmail.com) Received: from klamath ([212.204.44.203]) (authenticated bits=0) by vs159088.vserver.de (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j9JH6rsc024289 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:06:54 +0200 From: Andreas Kohn To: freebsd-eclipse In-Reply-To: <20051017231440.E0FA1629F@k7.mavetju> References: <20051017231440.E0FA1629F@k7.mavetju> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:06:53 +0200 Message-Id: <1129741614.1049.2.camel@klamath.syndrom23.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [FreeBSD Ports Version Check] Newer available versions for ports you maintain X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:07:03 -0000 On Mon, 2005-10-17 at 23:14 +0000, Edwin Groothuis wrote: > Port Current version New version URLs > ------------------------------------ --------------- ----------- ---- > java/eclipse-quantum 2.4.1 2.4.2 [1] > Please see http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=87672 for an update to 3.0.0. Regards, Andreas From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 19 23:34:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF59016A41F; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:34:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from edwin@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80ABD43D5A; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:34:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from edwin@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (edwin@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9JNYSnK093079; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:34:28 GMT (envelope-from edwin@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from edwin@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j9JNYSfn093075; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:34:28 GMT (envelope-from edwin) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:34:28 GMT From: Edwin Groothuis Message-Id: <200510192334.j9JNYSfn093075@freefall.freebsd.org> To: edwin@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: ports/87672: [UPDATE] java/eclipse-quantum to 3.0.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:34:29 -0000 Synopsis: [UPDATE] java/eclipse-quantum to 3.0.0 Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-ports-bugs->freebsd-eclipse Responsible-Changed-By: edwin Responsible-Changed-When: Wed Oct 19 23:34:10 GMT 2005 Responsible-Changed-Why: over to maintainer http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=87672 From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 20 02:01:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415C416A41F for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:01:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFCCB43D66 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:01:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90DB41A3C2E for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5558C51425; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:01:03 -0400 From: Kris Kennaway To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20051020020103.GA29512@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="+QahgC5+KEYLbs62" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: Subject: [ports-i386@pointyhat.freebsd.org: eclipse-viPlugin-1.12.3 failed on i386 5] X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:01:06 -0000 --+QahgC5+KEYLbs62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FYI; can you please investigate and/or report to the developers? If you are already aware of this problem but do not yet have a fix, please mark the port BROKEN in the appropriate case, so that users do not unexpectedly encounter it. See http://pointyhat.freebsd.org for the full log. Thanks, Kris ----- Forwarded message from User Ports-i386 ----- X-Original-To: kkenn@localhost Delivered-To: kkenn@localhost.obsecurity.org X-Original-To: kris@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: kris@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:00:12 GMT From: User Ports-i386 To: krion@FreeBSD.org, kris@FreeBSD.org Subject: eclipse-viPlugin-1.12.3 failed on i386 5 X-UIDL: c;S"!\Kn!!d2:!!C-L"! X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=3Dbogofilter, spamicity=3D0.000000, version=3D0.96.0 building eclipse-viPlugin-1.12.3 on gohan25.freebsd.org in directory /x/tmp/5/chroot/55052 maintained by: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org port directory: /usr/ports/java/eclipse-viplugin build started at Wed Oct 19 21:59:57 UTC 2005 FETCH_DEPENDS=3D PATCH_DEPENDS=3D EXTRACT_DEPENDS=3Dunzip-5.52_2.tbz BUILD_DEPENDS=3D RUN_DEPENDS=3DORBit2-2.12.4.tbz atk-1.9.1.tbz bitstream-vera-1.10_1.tbz cai= ro-0.4.0.tbz cdparanoia-3.9.8_7.tbz desktop-file-utils-0.10_2.tbz docbook-s= k-4.1.2_3.tbz docbook-xml-4.2_1.tbz docbook-xsl-1.69.1.tbz eclipse-3.1.1.tb= z esound-0.2.36.tbz expat-1.95.8_3.tbz fam-2.6.9_6.tbz fontconfig-2.2.3,1.t= bz freetype2-2.1.10_1.tbz gconf2-2.10.1.tbz gettext-0.14.5.tbz glib-2.6.6.t= bz gnome-icon-theme-2.10.1_1.tbz gnomehier-2.0_7.tbz gnomekeyring-0.4.5.tbz= gnomemimedata-2.4.2.tbz gnomevfs2-2.10.1_1.tbz gtk-2.6.10_1.tbz hicolor-ic= on-theme-0.5.tbz howl-1.0.0.tbz intltool-0.34.1.tbz javavmwrapper-2.0_5.tbz= jdk-1.4.2p7_2.tbz jpeg-6b_3.tbz libIDL-0.8.6.tbz libXft-2.1.7.tbz libart_l= gpl2-2.3.17.tbz libaudiofile-0.2.6.tbz libbonobo-2.10.1_1.tbz libbonoboui-2= .10.1.tbz libglade2-2.5.1_2.tbz libgnome-2.10.1.tbz libgnomecanvas-2.10.2_1= .tbz libgnomeui-2.10.1_1.tbz libiconv-1.9.2_1.tbz libpixman-0.1.6.tbz libxm= l2-2.6.22.tbz libxslt-1.1.15.tbz linc-1.0.3_3.tbz openldap-client-2.2.29.tb= z p5-XML-Parser-! 2.34_1.tbz pango-1.8.2.tbz perl-5.8.7.tbz pkgconfig-0.17.2.tbz png-1.2.8_2= .tbz popt-1.7.tbz python-2.4.2.tbz samba-libsmbclient-3.0.20b_2.tbz scrollk= eeper-0.3.14_1,1.tbz sdocbook-xml-4.1.2.5_2.tbz shared-mime-info-0.16_1.tbz= startup-notification-0.8_1.tbz tiff-3.7.4.tbz urwfonts-1.0.tbz xmlcatmgr-2= .2.tbz xorg-fonts-encodings-6.8.2.tbz xorg-fonts-truetype-6.8.2.tbz xorg-li= braries-6.8.2.tbz add_pkg =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D> viPlugin_1.12.3_E30.zip doesn't seem to exist in /tmp/distfiles/eclips= e. =3D> Attempting to fetch from ftp://ftp-master.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/port= s/distfiles/eclipse/. fetch: ftp://ftp-master.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/distfiles/eclipse/viP= lugin_1.12.3_E30.zip: File unavailable (e.g., file not found, no access) =3D> Attempting to fetch from ftp://pointyhat.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/distf= iles/eclipse/. fetch: ftp://pointyhat.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/distfiles/eclipse/viPlugin_1= .12.3_E30.zip: File unavailable (e.g., file not found, no access) =3D> Attempting to fetch from http://www.satokar.com/viplugin/files/. fetch: http://www.satokar.com/viplugin/files/viPlugin_1.12.3_E30.zip: Not F= ound =3D> Attempting to fetch from ftp://ftp-master.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/port= s/distfiles/eclipse/. fetch: ftp://ftp-master.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/distfiles/eclipse/viP= lugin_1.12.3_E30.zip: File unavailable (e.g., file not found, no access) =3D> Attempting to fetch from ftp://pointyhat.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/distf= iles/eclipse/. fetch: ftp://pointyhat.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/distfiles/eclipse/viPlugin_1= .12.3_E30.zip: File unavailable (e.g., file not found, no access) =3D> Couldn't fetch it - please try to retrieve this =3D> port manually into /tmp/distfiles/eclipse and try again. *** Error code 1 Stop in /a/ports/java/eclipse-viplugin. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D build of /usr/ports/java/eclipse-viplugin ended at Wed Oct 19 22:00:08 UTC = 2005 ----- End forwarded message ----- --+QahgC5+KEYLbs62 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDVvpfWry0BWjoQKURAiuRAKDYdgd4JOEbn05sWwSKGtcYkCTvtwCgyFgi a+xxOa/lzfCVn24GneYFsLM= =EWYO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --+QahgC5+KEYLbs62-- From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 19 16:00:27 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBFFB16A41F; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:00:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from iang@iang.org) Received: from mf1.sonance.net (mx2.sonance.net [62.116.45.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBBE43D46; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:00:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from iang@iang.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mf1.sonance.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6864A1400E; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:52:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mf1.sonance.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mf1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16493-03; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:52:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from postix.sonance.net (zentrix [192.168.0.223]) by mf1.sonance.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BB1A13EC7; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:52:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by postix.sonance.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CCAE17B46E; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:52:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from postix.sonance.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zentrix [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24489-07; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:52:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [IPv6???1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by postix.sonance.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 694EA17B45C; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:52:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <43539EB0.5010005@iang.org> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:53:04 +0100 From: Ian G Organization: http://iang.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050921) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <20051015053003.GB28137@soaustin.net> <4350CE50.8080704@ebs.gr> <5739E97B-7EDC-4971-9EA5-01A44688A981@softweyr.com> <43522953.6050700@ebs.gr> <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> In-Reply-To: <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at sonance.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at example.com X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:39:22 +0000 Cc: tux@pinguru.net, wes@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, mitsuru@riken.jp, Norikatsu Shigemura , rtdean@cytherianage.net, sugimura@jp.FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:00:28 -0000 (To all) Wes Peters wrote: > That's exactly the point I was (and am) trying to argue against. I > have to resort to 'make search' to find emacs tools these days because > they've been thrown all over the ports system by well-meaning but > misguided contributors, and I'd hate to see that happen to eclipse > tools too. As the directory structure imposes Big->Small naming on the ports, and this is always going to be inadequate. Many ports will have multiple namings and multiple ways of indexing that make lots of sense. The directory structure gives one indexing and one name only though. The problem is not where Eclipse or a plugin is located, rather, it is that the directory structure cannot support anything more complex than the simplest naming schemes. Moving Eclipse does not change this, only improving the search tools can help here. So what is needed is something that deals with: searchports eclipse plugin python or somesuch. iang From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 20 21:30:21 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 942C216A420 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:30:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com (dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com [68.99.120.69]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 929E043D62 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:30:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051020213027.WLDL7750.dukecmmtao02.coxmail.com@dns1> for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:30:27 -0400 Received: from mail.eclipse.org ([206.191.52.53]) by dukecmmtai01.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051020211143.JGXR1732.dukecmmtai01.coxmail.com@mail.eclipse.org> for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:11:43 -0400 Received: from node3.eclipse.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eclipse.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D461435F; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:10:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: eclipse-dev@eclipse.org Delivered-To: eclipse-dev@eclipse.org Received: from e4.ny.us.ibm.com (e4.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.144]) by mail.eclipse.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 58AE814337 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:10:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e4.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KLAjv3002981 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:10:45 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (d01av01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.215]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j9KLAiiT102086 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:10:44 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9KLAioR010246 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:10:44 -0400 Received: from d25ml01.torolab.ibm.com (d25ml01.torolab.ibm.com [9.26.6.102]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9KLAiE9010241; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:10:44 -0400 To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.0.2CF1 June 9, 2003 From: Vizion Message-Id: <200510201425.19857.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:25:19 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D25ML01/25/M/IBM(Release 6.5.4|March 27, 2005) at 10/20/2005 17:10:44, Serialize complete at 10/20/2005 17:10:44 X-BeenThere: eclipse-dev@eclipse.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Errors-To: eclipse-dev-bounces@eclipse.org User-Agent: KMail/1.8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: Fwd: [eclipse-dev] Guidelines for versioning plug-in posted X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:30:21 -0000 I thought this might be useful ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [eclipse-dev] Guidelines for versioning plug-in posted Date: Thursday 20 October 2005 14:10 From: Pascal Rapicault To: platform-dev@eclips.org, eclipse-dev@eclipse.org I've just posted a set of guidelines to version plug-ins. The document is available at http://eclipse.org/equinox/documents/plugin-versioning.html If you have any comment / concern please post on https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=99393 PaScaL ------------------------------------------------------- david -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after completing engineroom refit. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 21 11:34:52 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B97DF16A41F; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:34:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from hq@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75E7443D46; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:34:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from hq@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (hq@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9LBYqB2002753; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:34:52 GMT (envelope-from hq@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from hq@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j9LBYqRh002749; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:34:52 GMT (envelope-from hq) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:34:52 GMT From: Herve Quiroz Message-Id: <200510211134.j9LBYqRh002749@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hq@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-ports-bugs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: ports/87700: [UPDATE] java/eclipse-viPlugin from 1.12.3 to 1.13.0 due to old distfile removed. X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:34:52 -0000 Synopsis: [UPDATE] java/eclipse-viPlugin from 1.12.3 to 1.13.0 due to old distfile removed. Responsible-Changed-From-To: freebsd-ports-bugs->freebsd-eclipse Responsible-Changed-By: hq Responsible-Changed-When: Fri Oct 21 11:34:25 GMT 2005 Responsible-Changed-Why: Over to maintainer. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=87700 From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 20 16:13:25 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2643F16A41F; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:13:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com (lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com [68.99.120.82]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 252E343D64; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:13:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com) Received: from dns1 ([64.58.171.82]) by lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051020161331.KEMB25114.lakecmmtao06.coxmail.com@dns1>; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:13:31 -0400 From: Vizion To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:08:15 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200510150015.j9F0ExKr085847@sakura.ninth-nine.com> <1B8112AF-8C0E-4BA0-8D1C-DA6AD529F327@softweyr.com> <43539EB0.5010005@iang.org> In-Reply-To: <43539EB0.5010005@iang.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510200908.24006.vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:45:59 +0000 Cc: Wes Peters , wes@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org, mitsuru@riken.jp, tux@pinguru.net, Norikatsu Shigemura , rtdean@cytherianage.net, sugimura@jp.FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon , Ian G Subject: Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:13:25 -0000 On Monday 17 October 2005 05:53, the author Ian G contributed to the dialogue on- Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports: >(To all) > >Wes Peters wrote: >> That's exactly the point I was (and am) trying to argue against. I >> have to resort to 'make search' to find emacs tools these days because >> they've been thrown all over the ports system by well-meaning but >> misguided contributors, and I'd hate to see that happen to eclipse >> tools too. > >As the directory structure imposes Big->Small naming >on the ports, and this is always going to be inadequate. >Many ports will have multiple namings and multiple >ways of indexing that make lots of sense. The directory >structure gives one indexing and one name only though. > >The problem is not where Eclipse or a plugin is located, >rather, it is that the directory structure cannot support >anything more complex than the simplest naming schemes. So what could be more simple than /usr/ports/eclipse? > >Moving Eclipse does not change this, only improving >the search tools can help here. So what is needed >is something that deals with: > > searchports eclipse plugin python > >or somesuch. > >iang > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-java@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-java >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-java-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- 40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters. English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after completing engineroom refit. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 21 17:26:15 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C80116A420; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:26:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glewis@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 571E343D48; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:26:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glewis@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (glewis@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9LHQFP1055883; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:26:15 GMT (envelope-from glewis@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j9LHQEma055876; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:26:14 GMT (envelope-from glewis) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:26:14 GMT From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200510211726.j9LHQEma055876@freefall.freebsd.org> To: andreas@syndrom23.de, glewis@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: ports/87700: [UPDATE] java/eclipse-viPlugin from 1.12.3 to 1.13.0 due to old distfile removed. X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:26:15 -0000 Synopsis: [UPDATE] java/eclipse-viPlugin from 1.12.3 to 1.13.0 due to old distfile removed. State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: glewis State-Changed-When: Fri Oct 21 17:26:13 GMT 2005 State-Changed-Why: Committed. Thanks! http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=87700 From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 21 19:33:18 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 913B116A421 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:33:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fenner+portsurvey@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0BD643DC3 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:32:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fenner+portsurvey@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (fenner@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9LJWYDT079030 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:32:34 GMT (envelope-from fenner+portsurvey@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from fenner@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j9LJWYXU079029; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:32:34 GMT (envelope-from fenner+portsurvey) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:32:34 GMT Message-Id: <200510211932.j9LJWYXU079029@freefall.freebsd.org> From: fenner@freebsd.org (Bill "distfiles" Fenner) To: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD ports: 1 unfetchable distfile: java/eclipse-vep-examples X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ports@freebsd.org List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:33:18 -0000 Dear freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org, You are listed as the FreeBSD port maintainer for 1 port whose distfiles are not fetchable from their MASTER_SITES. Could you please visit http://people.freebsd.org/~fenner/portsurvey/freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org.html and correct the problems listed there? The individual port with a problem is java/eclipse-vep-examples. If you have already corrected the problems and submitted a PR, please accept my thanks and apologies for the delay in getting the fixes into the tree. This reminder is created automatically and does not (yet) have a way to know if a PR fixing the problem has been submitted. Please do *NOT* send your response to me directly; I do not necessarily have time to commit your fix; please instead submit a PR via 'send-pr' so it doesn't get lost. Problems are usually of two types: 1. The software package has been upgraded and the version in the port has been removed. The best solution to this problem is to upgrade the port to the most current version of the software package. If you are a FreeBSD committer, then you can just upgrade the port directly. If not, you should create the updated port on your own machine, test it (and maybe even run "portlint" on it), and then use "send-pr" to submit a "diff -uNr old-port updated-port". If you added or deleted any files, please make an explicit note of it. 2. The mirror site being used no longer contains the software package in question, or no longer exists. Solutions include: a) If there are other mirror sites, just remove the bad site from the list. (Make sure that what appears to be a bad site isn't actually a problem of type 1, upgrade) b) If the README or other support files in the software documentation mention where to get the software package, use one of those sites. c) Use a search engine to find another place to get the original DISTFILES. Make sure that you don't pick a FreeBSD distfiles mirror -- if you can't find any other places where the file exists, it can be a LOCAL_PORT or you can simply comment out the MASTER_SITES= line, with a comment explaining why. Once you have a solution, use "send-pr" to submit a "diff -u" of the Makefile. Note that this isn't an urgent issue, as people who try to build the port now will just fall back to the FreeBSD distfiles mirror. Please just put it on your list to do and get to it when you have time. These messages will continue to arrive twice a month until the fix is committed, as a reminder. Thanks, Bill "distfiles" Fenner. From owner-freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 21 22:32:28 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-eclipse@hub.freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-eclipse@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A14A16A420; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:32:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glewis@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E1C43D45; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:32:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from glewis@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (glewis@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9LMWSuk008875; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:32:28 GMT (envelope-from glewis@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from glewis@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j9LMWSgu008871; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:32:28 GMT (envelope-from glewis) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:32:28 GMT From: Greg Lewis Message-Id: <200510212232.j9LMWSgu008871@freefall.freebsd.org> To: andreas@syndrom23.de, glewis@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-eclipse@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Re: ports/87672: [UPDATE] java/eclipse-quantum to 3.0.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-eclipse@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "FreeBSD users of eclipse EDI, tools, rich client apps & ports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:32:28 -0000 Synopsis: [UPDATE] java/eclipse-quantum to 3.0.0 State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: glewis State-Changed-When: Fri Oct 21 22:32:27 GMT 2005 State-Changed-Why: Committed. Thanks! http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=87672