From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 21 12:39:08 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB07316A41F; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:39:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC5D43D77; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:39:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from [212.40.38.87] (oddity-e.topspin.kiev.ua [212.40.38.87]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id OAA03665; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:38:58 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Message-ID: <4381BFE2.80106@icyb.net.ua> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:38:58 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051016) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-U Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: mount -u -r drops nosuid ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:39:09 -0000 Not sure if this is a bug or a feature, but it seems like potential security risk: I have a ufs fs mounted rw+nosuid, then I needed to downgrade it to ro, so I executed mount -u -r on it - imagine my surpise when I found that nosuid flag was removed as well. I know I could have used mount -u -r -o nosuid, but the present behavior seems to be non-obvious (update one flag, orthogonal flags dropped as well) and dangerously so. System is 5.4-RELEASE-p3 i386 -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 21 13:43:44 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C0D16A41F for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:43:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd-security-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from mail26.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail26.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 152C343D4C for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:43:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd-security-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: (qmail 26281 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2005 13:43:43 -0000 Received: from dsl092-078-145.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO be-well.ilk.org) ([66.92.78.145]) (envelope-sender ) by mail26.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 21 Nov 2005 13:43:43 -0000 Received: by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id 81D972841B; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:43:42 -0500 (EST) Sender: lowell@be-well.ilk.org To: Andriy Gapon References: <4381BFE2.80106@icyb.net.ua> From: Lowell Gilbert Date: 21 Nov 2005 08:43:42 -0500 In-Reply-To: <4381BFE2.80106@icyb.net.ua> Message-ID: <44sltqxgj5.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Lines: 18 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount -u -r drops nosuid ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:43:44 -0000 Andriy Gapon writes: > Not sure if this is a bug or a feature, but it seems like potential > security risk: I have a ufs fs mounted rw+nosuid, then I needed to > downgrade it to ro, so I executed mount -u -r on it - imagine my surpise > when I found that nosuid flag was removed as well. I know I could have > used mount -u -r -o nosuid, but the present behavior seems to be > non-obvious (update one flag, orthogonal flags dropped as well) and > dangerously so. > > System is 5.4-RELEASE-p3 i386 The behaviour is explicitly documented. I think it is safer (less room to shoot yourself in the foot) to have the flags be exactly the ones you specified in the remount (no more, no less) than to have to know exactly what the state was beforehand. But clearly it's possible to surprise the operator either way. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 21 17:05:45 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAB3A16A41F for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:05:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559DB43D45 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:05:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (bshkjo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jALH5hEJ022908 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:05:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id jALH5hO4022907; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:05:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:05:43 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200511211705.jALH5hO4022907@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4381BFE2.80106@icyb.net.ua> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-fs User-Agent: tin/1.5.4-20000523 ("1959") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) Cc: Subject: Re: mount -u -r drops nosuid ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:05:46 -0000 Andriy Gapon wrote: > Not sure if this is a bug or a feature, It's a feature, and it's documented this way. > but it seems like potential > security risk: I have a ufs fs mounted rw+nosuid, then I needed to > downgrade it to ro, so I executed mount -u -r on it - imagine my surpise > when I found that nosuid flag was removed as well. Because you didn't specify it. When updating the options on a filesystem, only the options that you specify are used. Otherwise there would be no way to remove options like nosuid. If you want to change only one option and keep all other existing options, do this: # mount -u -o current,ro /mountpoint The special option "current" represents all options that are currently in effect on the file system. Following options (in this case "ro") override those. See the mount(8) manual page for detailed information. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. It's trivial to make fun of Microsoft products, but it takes a real man to make them work, and a God to make them do anything useful. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 21 18:40:37 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC66D16A435; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:40:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0780E43D62; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:40:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from [212.40.38.87] (oddity-e.topspin.kiev.ua [212.40.38.87]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id UAA12875; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:40:24 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Message-ID: <43821498.905@icyb.net.ua> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:40:24 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051016) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lowell Gilbert References: <4381BFE2.80106@icyb.net.ua> <44sltqxgj5.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> In-Reply-To: <44sltqxgj5.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mount -u -r drops nosuid ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:40:37 -0000 on 21/11/2005 15:43 Lowell Gilbert said the following: > The behaviour is explicitly documented. > > I think it is safer (less room to shoot yourself in the foot) to have > the flags be exactly the ones you specified in the remount (no more, > no less) than to have to know exactly what the state was beforehand. > But clearly it's possible to surprise the operator either way. Actually, somebody (Vasiliy ) off the list tought me about -o current option to mount. Really useful, I wonder how I managed to not notice it so far. Thanks Vasily! -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 21 21:20:34 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 715EE16A41F; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:20:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mail.localelinks.com (web.localelinks.com [65.170.254.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9168543D4C; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:20:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (adsl-157-22-236.jan.bellsouth.net [70.157.22.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.localelinks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A22EDE; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:20:18 -0600 (CST) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id E5B3561C1B; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:20:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:20:16 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Lowell Gilbert Message-ID: <20051121212016.GA66837@over-yonder.net> References: <4381BFE2.80106@icyb.net.ua> <44sltqxgj5.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <44sltqxgj5.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11-fullermd.2 Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Andriy Gapon Subject: Re: mount -u -r drops nosuid ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:20:34 -0000 On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 08:43:42AM -0500 I heard the voice of Lowell Gilbert, and lo! it spake thus: > > I think it is safer (less room to shoot yourself in the foot) to > have the flags be exactly the ones you specified in the remount (no > more, no less) than to have to know exactly what the state was > beforehand. But clearly it's possible to surprise the operator > either way. This is where -o current comes in. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 22 07:26:02 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70E0716A41F for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:26:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from user@dhp.com) Received: from shell.dhp.com (shell.dhp.com [199.245.105.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35A3543D45 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:26:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from user@dhp.com) Received: by shell.dhp.com (Postfix, from userid 896) id 44EBC31345; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 02:26:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 02:26:01 -0500 (EST) From: user To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: running multiple snapshots - multiple .snap dirs needed to avoid blocking ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:26:02 -0000 Hello, I understand that while a snapshot is being created, any stat of the directory that it is being created in will block until the snapshot is finished being created. Let's say I have one snapshot created and in use in .snap, and then I create a second snapshot of that same filesystem, also in .snap ... should I be worried that the usage of the first snapshot will block while the second one is being created ? It seems like I should be worried about that, and I am considering .snap, .snap2, .snap3 directories and just putting one snapshot in each ... (assume 6.0-RELEASE) thanks. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 22 10:00:39 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783D216A41F for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:00:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BC443D5C for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:00:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53E152082 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:00:34 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -3.3/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 476892080 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:00:34 +0100 (CET) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2308133C1D; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:00:34 +0100 (CET) To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200511211705.jALH5hO4022907@lurza.secnetix.de> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:00:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200511211705.jALH5hO4022907@lurza.secnetix.de> (Oliver Fromme's message of "Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:05:43 +0100 (CET)") Message-ID: <867jb1q9x9.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Subject: Re: mount -u -r drops nosuid ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:00:39 -0000 Oliver Fromme writes: > Because you didn't specify it. When updating the options > on a filesystem, only the options that you specify are > used. Otherwise there would be no way to remove options > like nosuid. uh, yes there would: -o suid DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 22 15:11:52 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98E816A41F for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:11:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71EAD43DB4 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:11:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (vcpahe@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jAMFB5SQ093699 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:11:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id jAMFB520093698; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:11:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:11:05 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200511221511.jAMFB520093698@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <867jb1q9x9.fsf@xps.des.no> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-fs User-Agent: tin/1.5.4-20000523 ("1959") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: Re: mount -u -r drops nosuid ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:11:52 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Oliver Fromme writes: > > Because you didn't specify it. When updating the options > > on a filesystem, only the options that you specify are > > used. Otherwise there would be no way to remove options > > like nosuid. > > uh, yes there would: -o suid Then it should be documented in the mount(8) manpage. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. "I learned Java 3 years before Python. It was my language of choice. It took me two weekends with Python before I was more productive with it than with Java." -- Anthony Roberts From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 22 20:08:53 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CA3016A41F for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:08:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE6F43D45 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:08:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Received: from [212.40.38.87] (oddity-e.topspin.kiev.ua [212.40.38.87]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id WAA19494 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:08:27 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from avg@icyb.net.ua) Message-ID: <43837ABB.2040906@icyb.net.ua> Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:08:27 +0200 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051016) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-U Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: vop_lookup man page: locking X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:08:53 -0000 It seems that VOP_LOOKUP(9) in 6.X and 7.X is outdated in LOCKS and PSEUDOCODE sections after the changes to vfs_lookup in the Spring of 2005. I am not volunteering to update it, sorry, but it would be nice if somebody did. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 22 20:56:07 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF8616A425 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:56:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from csaba@beastie.creo.hu) Received: from beastie.creo.hu (www.creo.hu [217.113.62.14]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B27543D62 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:55:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from csaba@beastie.creo.hu) Received: from beastie.creo.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beastie.creo.hu (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id jAMKriCZ007571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:53:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from csaba@beastie.creo.hu) Received: (from csaba@localhost) by beastie.creo.hu (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id jAMKrhhI007570; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:53:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from csaba) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:53:43 +0100 From: Csaba Henk To: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: <20051122205343.GJ2911@beastie.creo.hu> References: <43837ABB.2040906@icyb.net.ua> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43837ABB.2040906@icyb.net.ua> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vop_lookup man page: locking X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:56:08 -0000 On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 10:08:27PM +0200, Andriy Gapon wrote: > It seems that VOP_LOOKUP(9) in 6.X and 7.X is outdated in LOCKS and > PSEUDOCODE sections after the changes to vfs_lookup in the Spring of 2005. Just to give more background: the relevant change seems to be in rev1.79 of vfs_lookup.c, see http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys/kern/vfs_lookup.c#rev1.79 Csaba From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 23 05:37:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF09016A41F; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:37:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com) Received: from aldan.algebra.com (aldan.algebra.com [216.254.65.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E80543D5E; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:37:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com) Received: from aldan.algebra.com (blue [127.0.0.1]) by aldan.algebra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jAN5bNew057661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 23 Nov 2005 00:37:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by aldan.algebra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id jAN5bGbZ057660; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 00:37:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mi+kde@aldan.algebra.com) From: Mikhail Teterin To: Peter Edwards Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 00:37:15 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.2 References: <200509280537.j8S5b1rN050598@corbulon.video-collage.com> <433A32AE.1030802@samsco.org> <34cb7c840509280150212d2bba@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <34cb7c840509280150212d2bba@mail.gmail.com> X-Face: %UW#n0|w>ydeGt/b@1-.UFP=K^~-:0f#O:D7whJ5G_<5143Bb3kOIs9XpX+"V+~$adGP:J|SLieM31VIhqXeLBli" Cc: re@freebsd.org, gayn.winters@bristolsystems.com, fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: can not mount a large FAT32 filesystem X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:37:30 -0000 On Wednesday 28 September 2005 04:50 am, Peter Edwards wrote: = As I said, I can't see any reference to this signature in the = "official" specification for the FAT boot-sector anyway, so I doubt = you could claim it wasn't a FAT boot-sector based on that change = anyway. I imagine the've just relaxed the spec, and new = implementations don't have the baggage of 20 years of evolving = operating systems and disk technology lying about :-) = = I'll commit it this evening. Hi, Peter! Can you, please, merge this into the RELENG_5 as well? I just upgraded the kernel on my laptop and had to merge your patch manually :-( -mi From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 23 10:09:04 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458F116A41F for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:09:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C33E943D58 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:09:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD262083 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:08:59 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL,BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Learn: ham X-Spam-Score: -3.3/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09AD82080 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:08:59 +0100 (CET) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DF41D33C1D; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:08:58 +0100 (CET) To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200511221511.jAMFB520093698@lurza.secnetix.de> From: des@des.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:08:58 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200511221511.jAMFB520093698@lurza.secnetix.de> (Oliver Fromme's message of "Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:11:05 +0100 (CET)") Message-ID: <86oe4br805.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110002 (No Gnus v0.2) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Subject: Re: mount -u -r drops nosuid ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:09:04 -0000 Oliver Fromme writes: > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > > Oliver Fromme writes: > > > Because you didn't specify it. When updating the options > > > on a filesystem, only the options that you specify are > > > used. Otherwise there would be no way to remove options > > > like nosuid. > > uh, yes there would: -o suid > Then it should be documented in the mount(8) manpage. All mount options can be negated by adding the "no" prefix, or removing it if it is already there. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 23 12:06:30 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF75E16A41F for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:06:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB3B43D75 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:06:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (rgfelo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jANC6Jt9038966 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:06:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id jANC6JCp038965; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:06:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:06:19 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200511231206.jANC6JCp038965@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <86oe4br805.fsf@xps.des.no> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-fs User-Agent: tin/1.5.4-20000523 ("1959") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: Re: mount -u -r drops nosuid ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:06:31 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Oliver Fromme writes: > > Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > > > Oliver Fromme writes: > > > > Because you didn't specify it. When updating the options > > > > on a filesystem, only the options that you specify are > > > > used. Otherwise there would be no way to remove options > > > > like nosuid. > > > uh, yes there would: -o suid > > Then it should be documented in the mount(8) manpage. > > All mount options can be negated by adding the "no" prefix, or > removing it if it is already there. Yes, I verified that by experimenting, after you mentioned that "-o suid" would work. But: That behaviour is _not_ documented. Or maybe I just suffer from partial blindness. I searched the mount(8) manual page up and down in both RELENG_4 and RELENG_6. There is no mentioning of the "no" prefix at all. In fact, it documents "async" and "noasync" separately, which lead me to the (wrong) conclusion that the "no" prefix would only work for those options for which it is explicitely documented. Shall I submit a doc PR? Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. "Clear perl code is better than unclear awk code; but NOTHING comes close to unclear perl code" (taken from comp.lang.awk FAQ) From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 26 07:35:11 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 195B916A41F for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 07:35:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from user@dhp.com) Received: from shell.dhp.com (shell.dhp.com [199.245.105.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F8543D46 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 07:35:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from user@dhp.com) Received: by shell.dhp.com (Postfix, from userid 896) id B026631360; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 02:35:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 02:35:09 -0500 (EST) From: user To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: remind me ... (file undelete on FreeBSD 5.4) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 07:35:11 -0000 ln -s /some/dir/somewhere local (used the symlink named local for a while) rm -rf local local still exists in my current working directory, but now /some/dir/somewhere is gone. --- So I rm -rf'd a symlink. I just wanted to delete the link, and of course, it deleted the target. I then immediately mounted the filesystem read-only. (it's all I could think of to do to preserve things right at that state...) I did not have a snapshot enabled on the filesystem. I know the bits are still there ... is there any way to get them back ? thanks. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 26 09:14:39 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72FF16A41F for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:14:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from arne_woerner@yahoo.com) Received: from web30303.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30303.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.96]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 24BA543D49 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:14:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from arne_woerner@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 4424 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Nov 2005 09:14:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VzkEVurJOdTpC0p3wggBz6icoaTBaTa2NXTliWv4dJfERSoiULiDJWr69J7pMiB//WsJSKpGaRu+n7tihM0VMdMQOiSUahTocvrBIH4n2SXQbtDkFlwvQWxfixgdqxymnWr+4LegMLbzfANoAfthXwE5uIS7gzgqSBrfYtWuUhM= ; Message-ID: <20051126091438.4422.qmail@web30303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.54.75.219] by web30303.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 01:14:38 PST Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 01:14:38 -0800 (PST) From: Arne "Wörner" To: user , freebsd-fs@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: Re: remind me ... (file undelete on FreeBSD 5.4) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:14:39 -0000 --- user wrote: > ln -s /some/dir/somewhere local > > (used the symlink named local for a while) > > rm -rf local > > local still exists in my current working directory, but > now /some/dir/somewhere is gone. > > --- > > So I rm -rf'd a symlink. I just wanted to delete the > link, and of course, it deleted the target. > > I then immediately mounted the filesystem read-only. > (it's all I could think of to do to preserve things > right at that state...) > > I did not have a snapshot enabled on the filesystem. > > I know the bits are still there ... is there any way > to get them back ? > Hmm... I think there was such a problem before on a freebsd list... Did u tell your box to do "rm -rf local" or to do "rm -rf local/"? I did an experiment: % mkdir a % ln -s a b % rm -rf b % ls -l [...] drwxrwxr-x 2 aw aw 512 Nov 26 09:04 a [...] % ln -s a b % rm -rf b/ % ls -l [...] lrwxrwxr-x 1 aw aw 1 Nov 26 09:04 b -> a [...] In ports/sysutils/autopsy u might find a useful little helper... There was another tool, but I did not find it... -Arne __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 26 15:27:39 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 581D216A420 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:27:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from user@dhp.com) Received: from shell.dhp.com (shell.dhp.com [199.245.105.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FCF043D55 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:27:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from user@dhp.com) Received: by shell.dhp.com (Postfix, from userid 896) id EF1C031338; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:27:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:27:36 -0500 (EST) From: user To: =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Arne_W=F6rner?= In-Reply-To: <20051126091438.4422.qmail@web30303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: remind me ... (file undelete on FreeBSD 5.4) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:27:39 -0000 On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Arne W=F6rner wrote: > Hmm... I think there was such a problem before on a freebsd > list... >=20 > Did u tell your box to do "rm -rf local" or to do "rm -rf local/"? Yes, that is exactly what I did - I autocompleted the symlink and it deleted the target and left the symlink intact. Is this expected, or unexpected behavior ? > In ports/sysutils/autopsy u might find a useful little helper... > There was another tool, but I did not find it... It's part of the sleuthkit. I don't need a gui, so I think I will just use the sleuthkit. Thanks. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 26 15:46:31 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6465416A424 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:46:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: from wjv.com (fl-65-40-24-38.sta.sprint-hsd.net [65.40.24.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBBEE43D45 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:46:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: from bilver.wjv.com (localhost.wjv.com [127.0.0.1]) by wjv.com (8.13.5/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jAQFkO2K066577; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:46:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: (from bv@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.13.5/8.13.1/Submit) id jAQFkJJ4066576; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:46:19 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:46:19 -0500 From: Bill Vermillion To: user Message-ID: <20051126154619.GC66100@wjv.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park ReplyTo: bv@wjv.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on bilver.wjv.com Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: remind me ... (file undelete on FreeBSD 5.4) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: bv@wjv.com List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:46:31 -0000 They all laughed on Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 02:35 when user said: > ln -s /some/dir/somewhere local > (used the symlink named local for a while) > rm -rf local > local still exists in my current working directory, but now > /some/dir/somewhere is gone. > --- > So I rm -rf'd a symlink. I just wanted to delete the link, and > of course, it deleted the target. To remove a symlink a simple 'rm' is all that is needed. There was a bug in the past with 'bash' that did nasty and unexpected things like removing all files in the directorys pointed to by synlinks but leaving the symlink alone. I don't know how/when this was fixed as I've never used bash, and stick with David Korn's genuine 'ksh' and not the clones of it. > I then immediately mounted the filesystem read-only. (it's all I could > think of to do to preserve things right at that state...) Good. At least nothing now will be changed. > I did not have a snapshot enabled on the filesystem. > I know the bits are still there ... is there any way to get them > back ? With a fair amount of work there is. The only one I've used is TCT - The Coroners Toolkit - written by Wietse Venema and Dan Farmer. You can get it from either of their websites: http://www.fish.com/forensics or http://www.porcupine.org/forensics The two main pieces of the program are 'unrm' - which could be described as a specialized 'dd' - as it dumps only unallocated inodes to a file. It says it supports UFS2 and references FreeBSD 5.x - but the last update was in 2004. The second is 'lazarus' which goes through all the data and then puts the pieces into files so you can see what is found and what you want to do with it. It will give you LOTS AND LOTS of things you don't want. The first time I tested it [years ago] I found files I had removed over a year ago. There is an html option to be able to browse all the found pieces parts which lazarus has raised from the dead and it breaks things down into colors to make them easily identifiable. It WILL be a lot of work. I also accidentally rm'ed some files in my home directory, and had no idea of when I had done it, so I ran 'unrm' dumped the files to another division [I had to do it in pieces because of space] ran lazarus, and then moved those pieces/parts over to my XP machine [with a decent vi and ksh on it]. It can be a long tedious job - but I don't know of any other tool. BTW - the bash problem as I recall came from using tab expansion. What shell were you using? And the -rf option to rm will never warn you of anything. I last really nuked an important filesystem on an SGI in about 1996. I had done it once or twice before since I started using Unix systems in 1983. I've learned that for some places I'll perform an 'ls' with the same options/wildcards as I would use to rm, and then if that looks right, I used the line editing faciltiy of ksh [I like vi] to re-execute the command substituting 'rm' for the 'ls'. I've since reverted to using partial wildcards, double checking command lines to make sure there is no space around a '*', etc. It takes a bit more time, but sometimes it takes a big disaster to make you stay on your toes. And interesting anecdote on the SGI incident. I had tape backups. So I reinstalled the base OS with the convulted way that SGI had depending on which BIOS you had on the particular machine. After configuring the NIC cards I started the backup restore - from a tape drive on the network - as the SGI didn't have anything built in - including no floppies. Restore worked for a while and then stopped dead. So I go through this a second time - same thing. The first person who had installed that system has the SGI as his first introcution to Unix coming from a DOS and CP/M world. The default NIC used the DC-15 connector with a convertor to be able to handle 10baseT or 10base2 or 10base5. Since he did not have a convertor he made the secondary NIC with the 10baseT connector the one on the machine. The install set things up with the convertor as being the default - as this had been added later on. So part way through the install the config file for the default NIC was changed so now the system was looking for the tape on the other NIC. So after I figured that out, and configured the machine to match the backup, I started the tape restore, locked up, it was about 1AM. Got up at 6AM and drove the the site. And found the tape drive had failed about 3AM. Total failure on the drive. I forgot how I got things back but it did involve using another tape drive on another OS, pullingh all that data off there, and then manually xfering over the 'net a bit at a time. That was so long and so involved I've been super-extra-careful - always using the belt and suspendors approach since then. Sorry you had the problem, but TCT is the only package that I've seen that will do this for you. Wietse and Dan are very well known and respected, and Wietse wrote the original tcpwrappers back in 1995. Good luck. Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 26 15:49:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF2B16A41F for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:49:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: from wjv.com (fl-65-40-24-38.sta.sprint-hsd.net [65.40.24.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB4243D45 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:49:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: from bilver.wjv.com (localhost.wjv.com [127.0.0.1]) by wjv.com (8.13.5/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jAQFnTpB067376; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:49:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: (from bv@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.13.5/8.13.1/Submit) id jAQFnOZ8067375; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:49:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:49:24 -0500 From: Bill Vermillion To: user Message-ID: <20051126154924.GD66100@wjv.com> References: <20051126091438.4422.qmail@web30303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park ReplyTo: bv@wjv.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on bilver.wjv.com Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: remind me ... (file undelete on FreeBSD 5.4) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: bv@wjv.com List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:49:32 -0000 On Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 10:27 , the primordial soup was bombarded with cosmic radiation and a new life form of genus user emerged to test its air breathing capabilities and with great effort gasped: > > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Arne Wörner wrote: > > > Hmm... I think there was such a problem before on a freebsd > > list... > > > > Did u tell your box to do "rm -rf local" or to do "rm -rf local/"? > > Yes, that is exactly what I did - I autocompleted the symlink and it > deleted the target and left the symlink intact. Is this expected, or > unexpected behavior ? That is the expected behavior. Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 26 16:11:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3BD516A420 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:11:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from arne_woerner@yahoo.com) Received: from web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.99]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FBFE43D60 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:11:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from arne_woerner@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 62159 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Nov 2005 16:11:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4qdCEIJgjnQw2GmdSbf49HEb1JfXeU+Y95hGaj3T4/F+86Mq5Pk9ULQApUUj+aw+8Jhq837VrosR+loMExO8q4I6oIFln2MKXEEE9Oo+e35M6wpGyiv7kqXJ5Vmunly754lfLT91oF2B1P8iSlYctMFMO/WwlgPn6IL0SB072hM= ; Message-ID: <20051126161101.62157.qmail@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.54.75.219] by web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 08:11:01 PST Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 08:11:01 -0800 (PST) From: Arne "Wörner" To: user In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: remind me ... (file undelete on FreeBSD 5.4) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:11:06 -0000 --- user wrote: > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Arne Wörner wrote: > > > Hmm... I think there was such a problem before on a > > freebsd list... > > > > Did u tell your box to do "rm -rf local" or to do > > "rm -rf local/"? > > Yes, that is exactly what I did - I autocompleted > the symlink and it deleted the target and left the > symlink intact. Is this expected, or > unexpected behavior ? > Hmm... Interesting question... :-)) Maybe it would be nicer, if "local/." would be the directory that "local" points to (and not already "local/"... In your case it was obviously not the expected behaviour from your personal point of view (I would guess)... But now u and everybody else, who stepped in that "trap" before, will expect it in the future... :-)) > It's part of the sleuthkit. I don't need a gui, so > I think I will just use the sleuthkit. > Ok... I never used it... Since my history teacher complained for years about a stolen/misplaced LP (a big black plate with irregular groovings that can be pinned on a noise-making-device), that contained the copy of several H*tl*r speeches taken from wax rolls, and since I deleted my floppies and/or hard discs thoroughly and completely unintentionally multiple times, I do not even try to restore on that level... :-)) I prefer backups on DVDs (some weeks ago I found, that cheap DVDs cannot be used with my DVD burner as expected... the fricking thing can just write the first 3GB good enough... *shoot!*)... I hope you can restore a lot of ur data... I just remembered, that there is a tool called "fsdb" (file system debugger; it is already contained in the base system), which might see deleted files and directory-files... Maybe increasing the link count (from 0 to 1) of those directory entries brings back the files/dirs? Maybe I am too naive... -Arne __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 26 17:16:55 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 587F016A41F for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:16:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from user@dhp.com) Received: from shell.dhp.com (shell.dhp.com [199.245.105.1]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4112D43D6B for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:16:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from user@dhp.com) Received: by shell.dhp.com (Postfix, from userid 896) id 0DAEC31337; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:16:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:16:44 -0500 (EST) From: user To: =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Arne_W=F6rner?= In-Reply-To: <20051126161101.62157.qmail@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: remind me ... (file undelete on FreeBSD 5.4) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:16:55 -0000 On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Arne W=F6rner wrote: > I just remembered, that there is a tool called "fsdb" (file system > debugger; it is already contained in the base system), which might > see deleted files and directory-files... Maybe increasing the link > count (from 0 to 1) of those directory entries brings back the > files/dirs? Maybe I am too naive... Comments from anyone on this suggestion ? I may just try this if it is workable. Otherwise I am not going to bother. It was not important data, and I am already over it. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 26 17:44:36 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C457B16A431 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:44:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 426E043DC7 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:42:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [192.168.254.11] (junior.samsco.home [192.168.254.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jAQHg1eb059681; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:42:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <43889E6F.80008@samsco.org> Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:42:07 -0700 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050615 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: user References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=3.8 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: remind me ... (file undelete on FreeBSD 5.4) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:44:37 -0000 user wrote: > > On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Arne W�rner wrote: > > >>I just remembered, that there is a tool called "fsdb" (file system >>debugger; it is already contained in the base system), which might >>see deleted files and directory-files... Maybe increasing the link >>count (from 0 to 1) of those directory entries brings back the >>files/dirs? Maybe I am too naive... > > > > Comments from anyone on this suggestion ? > > I may just try this if it is workable. Otherwise I am not going to > bother. It was not important data, and I am already over it. > When a file is deleted (in technical terms, when the last reference on the inode goes away), its inode on disk is zeroed. The inode contains all of the block pointers for the file data. This isn't like MSDOS where you can bring back the file entry and reference it in the FAT to find the blocks. With a lot of work, if you know exactly what data you are looking for, you can search the free block bitmap and make educated guesses about clustering of data blocks. At one time I think there were tools to help with the scan and search, but really, it's not very feasable, and its not something that can be automated. If the data is that important, take it to a professional lab and have them recover the zeroed inode through hysterisis analysis. Scott From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 26 17:54:04 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFF7816A41F for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:54:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@gmail.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.197]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259C743D8C for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:53:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z31so693871nzd for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:53:33 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=DROGWurxbgG+7ZVMHr5vINVH1u6M+8OXruH9ij77XqxRvjvT0vyE+tu31SUIZg3dIkWlUuSey3Z0BSxNB4IlkxDSsLThaIdhrhe/+MtGkmHENBMFlpuYt3S9YIG74h/6GOkHHNiOnsUzC2uvB7SEzujgf6osYFkV88FYQWP+hm4= Received: by 10.65.186.13 with SMTP id n13mr9562397qbp; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.72.5 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:53:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 01:53:32 +0800 From: Xin LI To: Scott Long In-Reply-To: <43889E6F.80008@samsco.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline References: <43889E6F.80008@samsco.org> Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, user Subject: Re: remind me ... (file undelete on FreeBSD 5.4) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: delphij@delphij.net List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:54:04 -0000 SGksCgpPbiAxMS8yNy8wNSwgU2NvdHQgTG9uZyA8c2NvdHRsQHNhbXNjby5vcmc+IHdyb3RlOgo+ IFdoZW4gYSBmaWxlIGlzIGRlbGV0ZWQgKGluIHRlY2huaWNhbCB0ZXJtcywgd2hlbiB0aGUgbGFz dCByZWZlcmVuY2Ugb24KPiB0aGUgaW5vZGUgZ29lcyBhd2F5KSwgaXRzIGlub2RlIG9uIGRpc2sg aXMgemVyb2VkLiAgVGhlIGlub2RlIGNvbnRhaW5zCgpZZXMsIHRoYXQncyB0cnVlLiAgT25lIGNh biBub3QgZWFzaWx5IHJlY292ZXIgZGVsZXRlZCBkYXRhIGZyb20gdGhlIGRpc2suCgpPbmUgc3Vn Z2VzdGlvbiBpcyB5b3Ugc3BlY2lmeSAnLUknIHdoZW4gZG9pbmcgcm0sIHdoaWNoIHdpbGwgcHJv bXB0IGlmCnlvdSBhcmUgZ29pbmcgdG8gcmVjdXJzaXZlbHkgcmVtb3ZlIGRpcmVjdG9yeSwgb3Ig cmVtb3ZpbmcgbW9yZSB0aGFuIDMKZmlsZXMuICBUaGlzIGlzIG1vcmUgb3IgbGVzcyBhIGZvb3Qt c2hvb3RpbmcgcHJvb2YuICBBbm90aGVyCnN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gaXMgdGhhdCBldmVyeXRoaW5nIGlt cG9ydGFudCBzaG91bGQgYmUgYmFja2VkIHVwIGVsc2V3aGVyZSwKcGVyaW9kaWNhbGx5IGFuZCBl eHBsaWN0bHkuCgpDaGVlcnMsCi0tClhpbiBMSSA8ZGVscGhpakBkZWxwaGlqLm5ldD4gaHR0cDov L3d3dy5kZWxwaGlqLm5ldAo= From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 26 18:02:34 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B329816A420 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:02:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: from wjv.com (fl-65-40-24-38.sta.sprint-hsd.net [65.40.24.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8D743D66 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:02:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: from bilver.wjv.com (localhost.wjv.com [127.0.0.1]) by wjv.com (8.13.5/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jAQI2GWY069813; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:02:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: (from bv@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.13.5/8.13.1/Submit) id jAQI2B4Y069812; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:02:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:02:11 -0500 From: Bill Vermillion To: delphij@delphij.net Message-ID: <20051126180211.GA69773@wjv.com> References: <43889E6F.80008@samsco.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park ReplyTo: bv@wjv.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on bilver.wjv.com Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, user Subject: Re: remind me ... (file undelete on FreeBSD 5.4) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: bv@wjv.com List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:02:34 -0000 Wise men talk because they have something to say, however on Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 01:53 , Xin LI just had to say something so we heard: > Hi, > > On 11/27/05, Scott Long wrote: > > > When a file is deleted (in technical terms, when the last > > reference on the inode goes away), its inode on disk is > > zeroed. The inode contains > Yes, that's true. One can not easily recover deleted data from > the disk. > One suggestion is you specify '-I' when doing rm, which will prompt if > you are going to recursively remove directory, or removing more than 3 > files. This is more or less a foot-shooting proof. Another > suggestion is that everything important should be backed up elsewhere, > periodically and explictly. He had a major problem when he specified 'f' as on option, and 'f' will over-ride any 'i' option. Using the i option for large amounts of files will make you give that up in a hurry. As I suggested earlier perform an 'ls' with the appropriate options, and then if it all looks well use the command editor to change the 'ls' to 'rm'. And when you start using wildcards, always make sure to run 'pwd' before you make the final choice. Sometimes you will be surprised and you will save yourself a lot of grief. Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 26 18:17:48 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED05B16A41F for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:17:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 465DB43D5A for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:17:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (orgfel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id jAQIHkRc096366 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:17:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id jAQIHk09096365; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:17:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:17:46 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200511261817.jAQIHk09096365@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-fs User-Agent: tin/1.5.4-20000523 ("1959") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) Cc: Subject: Re: remind me ... (file undelete on FreeBSD 5.4) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:17:49 -0000 user wrote: > ln -s /some/dir/somewhere local > > (used the symlink named local for a while) > > rm -rf local > > local still exists in my current working directory, but now > /some/dir/somewhere is gone. > > So I rm -rf'd a symlink. I just wanted to delete the link, and of course, Then why did you specify the -rf options in the first place? UNIX usually does exactly what you tell it to do. That's not a bug, it's a feature. I know poeple who always type "rm -rf", no matter what they want to delete. It's kind of a finger alias: Whenever they type "rm", their fingers automatically add "-rf". I don't know what the cause of that behaviour is (maybe they're too lazy to think about it), but it definitely is dangerous, as the above example shows. It's better to think first before using the -rf options, especially when there's no backup. > I know the bits are still there ... is there any way to get them back ? With increasing complexity of the file system, the importance of metadata also increases. That's why "undelete" is easy to implement on FAT, but very difficult or even impossible on UFS. I'd suggest you fetch your backup. If you don't have a backup of the files, then I imply that the files weren't important. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. Passwords are like underwear. You don't share them, you don't hang them on your monitor or under your keyboard, you don't email them, or put them on a web site, and you must change them very often. From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 26 18:34:04 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5CC816A41F for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:34:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: from wjv.com (fl-65-40-24-38.sta.sprint-hsd.net [65.40.24.38]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4285543D91 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:34:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: from bilver.wjv.com (localhost.wjv.com [127.0.0.1]) by wjv.com (8.13.5/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jAQIY01n070114 for ; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:34:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv@bilver.wjv.com) Received: (from bv@localhost) by bilver.wjv.com (8.13.5/8.13.1/Submit) id jAQIXtNG070111 for freebsd-fs@freebsd.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:33:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bv) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:33:55 -0500 From: Bill Vermillion To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20051126183355.GA70009@wjv.com> References: <200511261817.jAQIHk09096365@lurza.secnetix.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200511261817.jAQIHk09096365@lurza.secnetix.de> Organization: W.J.Vermillion / Orlando - Winter Park ReplyTo: bv@wjv.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on bilver.wjv.com Subject: Re: remind me ... (file undelete on FreeBSD 5.4) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: bv@wjv.com List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:34:05 -0000 While stranded on the shoulder of the Information Superhiway and trying to flag down some passing bytes Oliver Fromme said "Bits don't fail me now", and continued with: > user wrote: > > ln -s /some/dir/somewhere local > > > > (used the symlink named local for a while) > > rm -rf local > > local still exists in my current working directory, but now > > /some/dir/somewhere is gone. > > So I rm -rf'd a symlink. I just wanted to delete the link, and of course, > Then why did you specify the -rf options in the first place? > UNIX usually does exactly what you tell it to do. That's > not a bug, it's a feature. > I know poeple who always type "rm -rf", no matter what they > want to delete. It's kind of a finger alias: Whenever they > type "rm", their fingers automatically add "-rf". I don't > know what the cause of that behaviour is (maybe they're too > lazy to think about it), but it definitely is dangerous, as > the above example shows. It's better to think first before > using the -rf options, especially when there's no backup. Slight topic drift - but related. When your fingers automatically do certain things after a certain pattern it's basically an autonomic reflex. It's one finger following another why players of musical instruments repeat hard passages until they get them correct. After enough practice they don't have to work at the fingering - such as in a very complex keyboard piece - as the finger have been trained to do certain sequences automatically. You've probably noticed this if you are a fast touch typist when you go to type a word you don't use often but it starts with the same pattern as a word you quite often. That's part of being a human :-) Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com