From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 19 09:16:53 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ECD516A41C for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:16:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from watchman@ludd.ltu.se) Received: from av12-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (av12-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net [81.228.8.186]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02E5143D48 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:16:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from watchman@ludd.ltu.se) Received: by av12-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 2F34F37F07; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:16:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net [81.228.8.92]) by av12-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04EA737E51 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:16:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.104] (h244n2fls11o1005.telia.com [217.211.199.244]) by smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC16F37E44 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:16:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:16:51 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Joachim_Str=F6mbergson?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050626 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:42:59 +0000 Subject: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:16:53 -0000 Aloha! (I've Googled around a bit, but failed to find much previous posts about this though I'm sure it has been discussed...) Have anybody (in core etc) considered adding a sudo implementation to thr FreeBSD base system. At least for me, sudo is an important part of implementing good security policy in FreeBSD. Yes, it is available as a port, but in a similar fashion of for example, isn't sudo important enough to be included as an imported tool in the base system? My thought was to sync/import the sudo implementation from OpenBSD. Bad idea? -- Med vänlig hälsning, Cheers! Joachim Strömbergson ============================================================================ Joachim Strömbergson - ASIC designer, nice to *cute* animals. snail: phone: mail & web: Östra Eriksbergsgatan 74 +46 31 - 12 14 01 watchman@ludd.ltu.se 417 63 Göteborg +46 733 75 97 02 www.ludd.luth.se/~watchman ============================================================================ From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 19 21:34:30 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D8A16A41F for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:34:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from kane.otenet.gr (kane.otenet.gr [195.170.0.95]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C10C43D46 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:34:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from gothmog.gr (patr530-a060.otenet.gr [212.205.215.60]) by kane.otenet.gr (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-1) with ESMTP id j6JLYHPa014350; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:34:23 +0300 Received: from gothmog.gr (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.gr (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j6JLY93h001713; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:34:09 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: (from giorgos@localhost) by gothmog.gr (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j6JLXvAN001712; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:33:57 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:33:56 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Joachim Str?mbergson Message-ID: <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> References: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:12:57 +0000 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:34:30 -0000 On 2005-07-19 11:16, Joachim Str?mbergson wrote: > Aloha! > > (I've Googled around a bit, but failed to find much previous posts about > this though I'm sure it has been discussed...) > > Have anybody (in core etc) considered adding a sudo implementation to > thr FreeBSD base system. At least for me, sudo is an important part of > implementing good security policy in FreeBSD. > > Yes, it is available as a port, but in a similar fashion of for example, > isn't sudo important enough to be included as an imported tool in the > base system? > > My thought was to sync/import the sudo implementation from OpenBSD. Bad > idea? Maybe not so bad if the OpenBSD version of sudo has useful enhancements of any sort (i.e. has gone through a thorough security audit, or it includes features that are not available through the Ports version, or if the OpenBSD sudo uses a BSD and not an ISC-style license). - Giorgos From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 20 13:54:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B492616A421; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:54:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from security-advisories@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD9EF43D66; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:54:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from security-advisories@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (cperciva@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6KDsQjo010166; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:54:26 GMT (envelope-from security-advisories@freebsd.org) Received: (from cperciva@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j6KDsQv4010165; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:54:26 GMT (envelope-from security-advisories@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:54:26 GMT Message-Id: <200507201354.j6KDsQv4010165@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: cperciva set sender to security-advisories@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD Security Advisories To: FreeBSD Security Advisories Precedence: bulk Cc: Subject: FreeBSD Security Advisory FreeBSD-SA-05:17.devfs X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Reply-To: security-advisories@freebsd.org List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:54:29 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 ============================================================================= FreeBSD-SA-05:17.devfs Security Advisory The FreeBSD Project Topic: devfs ruleset bypass Category: core Module: devfs Announced: 2005-07-20 Credits: Robert Watson Affects: All FreeBSD 5.x releases Corrected: 2005-07-20 13:35:44 UTC (RELENG_5, 5.4-STABLE) 2005-07-20 13:36:32 UTC (RELENG_5_4, 5.4-RELEASE-p5) 2005-07-20 13:37:27 UTC (RELENG_5_3, 5.3-RELEASE-p19) CVE Name: CAN-2005-2218 For general information regarding FreeBSD Security Advisories, including descriptions of the fields above, security branches, and the following sections, please visit . I. Background The jail(2) system call allows a system administrator to lock a process and all of its descendants inside an environment with a very limited ability to affect the system outside that environment, even for processes with superuser privileges. It is an extension of, but far more powerful than, the traditional UNIX chroot(2) system call. The device file system, or devfs(5), provides access to kernel's device namespace in the global file system namespace. This includes access to to system devices such as storage devices, kernel and system memory devices, BPF devices, and serial port devices. Devfs is is generally mounted as /dev. Devfs rulesets allow an administrator to hide certain device nodes; this is most commonly applied to a devfs mounted for use inside a jail, in order to make devices inaccessible to processes within that jail. II. Problem Description Due to insufficient parameter checking of the node type during device creation, any user can expose hidden device nodes on devfs mounted file systems within their jail. Device nodes will be created in the jail with their normal default access permissions. III. Impact Jailed processes can get access to restricted resources on the host system. For jailed processes running with superuser privileges this implies access to all devices on the system. This level of access can lead to information leakage and privilege escalation. IV. Workaround Unmount device file systems mounted inside jails. Note that certain device nodes, such as /dev/null, may be required for some software to function correctly. This can be done by executing the following command as root: umount -A -t devfs Also, remove or comment out any lines in fstab(5) that reference `devfs' and has a mount point within a jail, so that they will not be re-mounted at next reboot. Some device file systems might be busy, including the host's main /dev file system, and processes accessing these must be shut down before the device file system can be unmounted. The hosts main device file system, mounted as /dev, should not be unmounted since it is required for normal system operation. V. Solution Perform one of the following: 1) Upgrade your vulnerable system to 5-STABLE, or to the RELENG_5_4, or RELENG_5_3 security branch dated after the correction date. 2) To patch your present system: The following patches have been verified to apply to FreeBSD 5.3, and 5.4 systems. a) Download the relevant patch from the location below, and verify the detached PGP signature using your PGP utility. # fetch ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.org/pub/FreeBSD/CERT/patches/SA-05:17/devfs.patch # fetch ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.org/pub/FreeBSD/CERT/patches/SA-05:17/devfs.patch.asc b) Apply the patch. # cd /usr/src # patch < /path/to/patch c) Recompile your kernel as described in and reboot the system. VI. Correction details The following list contains the revision numbers of each file that was corrected in FreeBSD. Branch Revision Path - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- RELENG_5 src/sys/fs/devfs/devfs_vnops.c 1.73.2.2 RELENG_5_4 src/UPDATING 1.342.2.24.2.14 src/sys/conf/newvers.sh 1.62.2.18.2.10 src/sys/fs/devfs/devfs_vnops.c 1.73.2.1.2.1 RELENG_5_3 src/UPDATING 1.342.2.13.2.22 src/sys/conf/newvers.sh 1.62.2.15.2.24 src/sys/fs/devfs/devfs_vnops.c 1.73.4.1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- VII. References http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CAN-2005-2218 The latest revision of this advisory is available at ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/CERT/advisories/FreeBSD-SA-05:17.devfs.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC3lYgFdaIBMps37IRAldmAJ458s06z3gkHNjn04R2Rq8XXwRKiQCffeJP m9n3bmuoX0WJvckcdR8EhU4= =2iFe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 20 18:53:50 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53DDB16A41F for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 18:53:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cliftonr@lava.net) Received: from malasada.lava.net (malasada.lava.net [64.65.64.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1747143D48 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 18:53:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cliftonr@lava.net) Received: by malasada.lava.net (Postfix, from userid 102) id 525D0153882; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 08:53:49 -1000 (HST) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 08:53:49 -1000 From: Clifton Royston To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20050720185348.GD11242@lava.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org References: <20050720120036.D207816A420@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050720120036.D207816A420@hub.freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2i Subject: Re: freebsd-security Digest, Vol 120, Issue 1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 18:53:50 -0000 On Wed, Jul 20, 2005 at 12:00:36PM +0000, freebsd-security-request@freebsd.org wrote: > From: Joachim Str?mbergson > Subject: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? > To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org > Message-ID: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Aloha! > > (I've Googled around a bit, but failed to find much previous posts about > this though I'm sure it has been discussed...) > > Have anybody (in core etc) considered adding a sudo implementation to > thr FreeBSD base system. At least for me, sudo is an important part of > implementing good security policy in FreeBSD. If core wanted to do this, I'd think it a great idea. I haven't installed a single FreeBSD (or for that matter any *nix) system in the last 8 years where sudo wasn't one of the first things I put onto it. > Yes, it is available as a port, but in a similar fashion of for example, > isn't sudo important enough to be included as an imported tool in the > base system? Usually I've installed it as a package off the install CD, before the system is even booted the first time. -- Clifton -- Clifton Royston -- cliftonr@tikitechnologies.com Tiki Technologies Lead Programmer/Software Architect "My own personal theory is that this is the very dawn of the world. We're hardly more than an eyeblink away from the fall of Troy, and scarcely an interglaciation removed from the Altamira cave painters. We live in extremely interesting ancient times. I like this idea. It encourages us to be earnest and ingenious and brave, as befits ancestral peoples; but keeps us from deciding that because we don't know all the answers, they must be unknowable and thus unprofitable to pursue." -- Teresa Nielsen Hayden, 1995 From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 20 20:32:33 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC8C16A420 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:32:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mureninc@gmail.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D60FA43D53 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:32:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mureninc@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i21so1546702wra for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:32:31 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=M2Ihk4crKKEM20Od5lt0lg9tJrjkWxtRjzstXzF22sJ50i3Nih+Ja/FlPq6ah+vJfSa++XmycRuX2J1YSo1SHMGfiGeTJrV/4cBi+LVpw1TWx9nfg9H0CM+eLYcclKdbe9ZjxC3qxXH9fVVm64UXRtmeiCHkTl0cV8kHBZLEdm4= Received: by 10.54.52.55 with SMTP id z55mr239158wrz; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.83.7 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 16:32:11 -0400 From: "Constantine A. Murenin" To: Giorgos Keramidas In-Reply-To: <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Joachim Str?mbergson Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Constantine A. Murenin" List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:32:33 -0000 On 19/07/05, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2005-07-19 11:16, Joachim Str?mbergson wrote: > > Aloha! > > > > (I've Googled around a bit, but failed to find much previous posts abou= t > > this though I'm sure it has been discussed...) > > > > Have anybody (in core etc) considered adding a sudo implementation to > > thr FreeBSD base system. At least for me, sudo is an important part of > > implementing good security policy in FreeBSD. > > > > Yes, it is available as a port, but in a similar fashion of for example= , > > isn't sudo important enough to be included as an imported tool in the > > base system? > > > > My thought was to sync/import the sudo implementation from OpenBSD. Bad > > idea? >=20 > Maybe not so bad if the OpenBSD version of sudo has useful enhancements > of any sort (i.e. has gone through a thorough security audit, or it > includes features that are not available through the Ports version, > or if the OpenBSD sudo uses a BSD and not an ISC-style license). : > The ISC copyright is functionally equivalent to a two-term BSD copyrig= ht with language removed that is made unnecessary by the Berne convention. = This is the preferred license for new code incorporated into OpenBSD. A sam= ple license is included in the source tree as /usr/src/share/misc/license.t= emplate.=20 What's the reason that you'd prefer a BSD-licence over ISC-style licence?= =20 Cheers, Constantine. From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 20 20:49:46 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B54CF16A41F for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:49:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from kane.otenet.gr (kane.otenet.gr [195.170.0.95]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4DF243D48 for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:49:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from gothmog.gr (patr530-a084.otenet.gr [212.205.215.84]) by kane.otenet.gr (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-1) with ESMTP id j6KKngHL026778; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 23:49:43 +0300 Received: from gothmog.gr (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.gr (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j6KKnbIW002541; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 23:49:37 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: (from giorgos@localhost) by gothmog.gr (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j6KKnaDP002540; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 23:49:36 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 23:49:33 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: "Constantine A. Murenin" Message-ID: <20050720204932.GA2487@gothmog.gr> References: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:42:31 +0000 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Joachim Str?mbergson Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:49:46 -0000 On 2005-07-20 16:32, "Constantine A. Murenin" wrote: >On 19/07/05, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >>On 2005-07-19 11:16, Joachim Str?mbergson wrote: >>> >>> My thought was to sync/import the sudo implementation from OpenBSD. Bad >>> idea? >> >> Maybe not so bad if the OpenBSD version of sudo has useful enhancements >> of any sort (i.e. has gone through a thorough security audit, or it >> includes features that are not available through the Ports version, >> or if the OpenBSD sudo uses a BSD and not an ISC-style license). > > : > > The ISC copyright is functionally equivalent to a two-term BSD copyright with language removed that is made unnecessary by the Berne convention. This is the preferred license for new code incorporated into OpenBSD. A sample license is included in the source tree as /usr/src/share/misc/license.template. > > What's the reason that you'd prefer a BSD-licence over ISC-style licence? The reason was I happened to be behind a very slow connection when I replied and had not checked the license myself yet. Thanks for the clarification though. I've already looked at: http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/sudo/LICENSE Thanks, Giorgos From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 10:13:54 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BBFF16A41F; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dd@freebsd.org) Received: from charade.trit.org (charade.trit.org [65.19.139.44]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 407C743D68; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dd@freebsd.org) Received: from maverick.trit.org (rtr-fe0.irvca.networksinmotion.com [71.129.107.129]) by charade.trit.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94CA51AF4C9; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from maverick.trit.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maverick.trit.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j6LADWJN001352; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:32 GMT (envelope-from dd@freebsd.org) Received: (from dima@localhost) by maverick.trit.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j6LADVKU001351; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:31 GMT (envelope-from dd@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: maverick.trit.org: dima set sender to dd@freebsd.org using -f Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:31 +0000 From: Dima Dorfman To: Giorgos Keramidas Message-ID: <20050721101331.GB854@trit.org> References: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="St7VIuEGZ6dlpu13" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> X-PGP-Key: 69FAE582 (http://www.trit.org/~dima/dima.asc) X-PGP-Fingerprint: B340 8338 7DA3 4D61 7632 098E 0730 055B 69FA E582 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:42:31 +0000 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Joachim Str?mbergson Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:54 -0000 --St7VIuEGZ6dlpu13 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2005-07-19 11:16, Joachim Str?mbergson wrote: > > My thought was to sync/import the sudo implementation from OpenBSD. Bad > > idea? >=20 > Maybe not so bad if the OpenBSD version of sudo has useful enhancements > of any sort (i.e. has gone through a thorough security audit, or it > includes features that are not available through the Ports version, OpenBSD doesn't have their own version of sudo. The sudo maintainer is = =20 an OpenBSD committer (millert), and if other OpenBSD guys were to make = =20 any enhancements, I expect that the changes would quickly find their = =20 way into the official distribution. = =20 = =20 FWIW, I don't see any reason to include sudo in the base system. It's = =20 something that I install on every computer, but I don't mind building = =20 the port or installing it from a package. Unlike some of the other = =20 things I usually want on every system (e.g., emacs), it's small and = =20 doesn't have any dependencies, so it's not a problem to install it as = =20 soon as the system is online. That said, I wouldn't object to having = =20 it in the base, either. = =20 Dima. --St7VIuEGZ6dlpu13 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFC33VLBzAFW2n65YIRAg96AKCKdrpt1axxVMhFO9SSU7tnEHTbigCePxFm BvhoIcgm+X9Zqsr5SXZX/9g= =30/G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --St7VIuEGZ6dlpu13-- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 10:20:18 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1511516A41F; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:20:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from rosebud.otenet.gr (rosebud.otenet.gr [195.170.0.94]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E259543D8C; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:20:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv (aris.bedc.ondsl.gr [62.103.39.226]) by rosebud.otenet.gr (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-1) with SMTP id j6LAKC1M019218; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:20:13 +0300 Received: from beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6LAKC5s016464; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:20:12 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3/Submit) id j6LAKC7p016463; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:20:12 +0300 (EEST) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:20:12 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Dima Dorfman Message-ID: <20050721102012.GG16179@beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv> References: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> <20050721101331.GB854@trit.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050721101331.GB854@trit.org> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:42:31 +0000 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Joachim Str?mbergson Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:20:18 -0000 On 2005-07-21 10:13, Dima Dorfman wrote: >Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >>On 2005-07-19 11:16, Joachim Str?mbergson wrote: >>> My thought was to sync/import the sudo implementation from >>> OpenBSD. Bad idea? >> >> Maybe not so bad if the OpenBSD version of sudo has useful >> enhancements of any sort (i.e. has gone through a thorough security >> audit, or it includes features that are not available through the >> Ports version, > > OpenBSD doesn't have their own version of sudo. The sudo maintainer is > an OpenBSD committer (millert), and if other OpenBSD guys were to make > any enhancements, I expect that the changes would quickly find their > way into the official distribution. > > FWIW, I don't see any reason to include sudo in the base system. It's > something that I install on every computer, but I don't mind building > the port or installing it from a package. Unlike some of the other > things I usually want on every system (e.g., emacs), it's small and > doesn't have any dependencies, so it's not a problem to install it as > soon as the system is online. That said, I wouldn't object to having > it in the base, either. My thoughts exactly. The only thing I'd like to add is that the port is that importing it to the base system would probably require someone who steps up and offers to maintain it as bugfixes/features are noticed in the upstream source. But, I guess, this is more or less obvious. From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 15:24:51 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0732816A421 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:24:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from piechota@argolis.org) Received: from gigatrex.com (saraswati.gigatrex.com [64.5.48.159]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75E9343DA0 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:24:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from piechota@argolis.org) Received: (qmail 27596 invoked by uid 1091); 21 Jul 2005 15:23:59 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by saraswati (envelope-from , uid 1010) with qmail-scanner-1.24 (clamdscan: 0.80/553. spamassassin: 3.0.1. Clear:RC:1(127.0.0.1):SA:0(-2.6/5.0):. Processed in 25.721901 secs); 21 Jul 2005 15:23:59 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: piechota@argolis.org via saraswati X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.24 (Clear:RC:1(127.0.0.1):SA:0(-2.6/5.0):. Processed in 25.721901 secs) X-Envelope-From: piechota@argolis.org Received: from proxy3b.external.lmco.com ([192.35.35.35]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user piechota@argolis.org); by webmail.gigatrex.com with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:23:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <24999.192.35.35.35.1121959413.squirrel@192.35.35.35> In-Reply-To: <20050721101331.GB854@trit.org> References: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> <20050721101331.GB854@trit.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:23:33 -0500 (CDT) From: piechota@argolis.org To: "Dima Dorfman" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-XheaderVersion: 1.1 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 Firefox/1.0.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on saraswati.gigatrex.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, AWL, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=ham version=3.0.4 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:24:51 -0000 > FWIW, I don't see any reason to include sudo in the base system. It's > something that I install on every computer, but I don't mind building > the port or installing it from a package. Unlike some of the other > things I usually want on every system (e.g., emacs), it's small and > doesn't have any dependencies, so it's not a problem to install it as > soon as the system is online. That said, I wouldn't object to having > it in the base, either. I see two reasons for a "nay" vote: If we put everything a group of people find useful in the base system, we're going to end up with soemthing like Redhat, where there's tons of software the rarely gets used. Secondly, some 'customers' have a very dim view of sudo (mostly for bad reasons, but they ban it anyways). From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 15:32:20 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E359C16A41F; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:32:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from simon@zaphod.nitro.dk) Received: from zaphod.nitro.dk (port324.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk [212.242.113.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E889E43D82; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:32:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from simon@zaphod.nitro.dk) Received: by zaphod.nitro.dk (Postfix, from userid 3000) id 7720711A79; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:32:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:32:03 +0200 From: "Simon L. Nielsen" To: Giorgos Keramidas Message-ID: <20050721153202.GF880@zaphod.nitro.dk> References: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> <20050721101331.GB854@trit.org> <20050721102012.GG16179@beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="idY8LE8SD6/8DnRI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050721102012.GG16179@beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Joachim Str?mbergson , Dima Dorfman Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:32:21 -0000 --idY8LE8SD6/8DnRI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2005.07.21 13:20:12 +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > My thoughts exactly. The only thing I'd like to add is that the port is > that importing it to the base system would probably require someone who > steps up and offers to maintain it as bugfixes/features are noticed in > the upstream source. But, I guess, this is more or less obvious. Personally I have a preference for not having it in the base system for the simple reason that we would need to make security advisories for it... and while I don't remember any grave holes, there certainly have been a few holes over the last year. --=20 Simon L. Nielsen --idY8LE8SD6/8DnRI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC37/yh9pcDSc1mlERAuCKAKCaq3Esh+BmsbQxLonx7CU3T5XNDgCdES/R DmECczuOlHgBW1YN0G/4ca8= =e4MY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --idY8LE8SD6/8DnRI-- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 15:53:13 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C21D816A449; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:53:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: from tarsier.geekcn.org (tarsier.geekcn.org [210.51.165.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32BAD43D80; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:52:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from delphij@frontfree.net) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net (unknown [219.239.99.7]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tarsier.geekcn.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01BB0EB3B23; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:52:54 +0800 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1F11378E2; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:52:52 +0800 (CST) Received: from beastie.frontfree.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (beastie.frontfree.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20635-06; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:52:43 +0800 (CST) Received: by beastie.frontfree.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0480E1378D6; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:52:41 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:52:41 +0800 From: Xin LI To: piechota@argolis.org Message-ID: <20050721155241.GA20438@frontfree.net> References: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> <20050721101331.GB854@trit.org> <24999.192.35.35.35.1121959413.squirrel@192.35.35.35> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <24999.192.35.35.35.1121959413.squirrel@192.35.35.35> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-GPG-key-ID/Fingerprint: 0xCAEEB8C0 / 43B8 B703 B8DD 0231 B333 DC28 39FB 93A0 CAEE B8C0 X-GPG-Public-Key: http://www.delphij.net/delphij.asc X-Operating-System: FreeBSD beastie.frontfree.net 5.4-RELEASE-p5 FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE-p5 #3: Thu Jul 21 11:45:42 CST 2005 delphij@beastie.frontfree.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BEASTIE i386 X-URL: http://www.delphij.net X-By: delphij@beastie.frontfree.net X-Location: Beijing, China X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at frontfree.net Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Dima Dorfman Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:53:14 -0000 --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 10:23:33AM -0500, piechota@argolis.org wrote: > > FWIW, I don't see any reason to include sudo in the base system. It's > > something that I install on every computer, but I don't mind building > > the port or installing it from a package. Unlike some of the other > > things I usually want on every system (e.g., emacs), it's small and > > doesn't have any dependencies, so it's not a problem to install it as > > soon as the system is online. That said, I wouldn't object to having > > it in the base, either. >=20 > I see two reasons for a "nay" vote: If we put everything a group of people > find useful in the base system, we're going to end up with soemthing like > Redhat, where there's tons of software the rarely gets used. Secondly, > some 'customers' have a very dim view of sudo (mostly for bad reasons, but > they ban it anyways). My reasons for why not to have sudo(1) in our base is that: - It is actively maintained and generally speaking it won't be hard to build/install from ports collection. - It provides another way of utilizing privileges, and needs careful configuration. - We do not have a killer application to ease maintaince of the configuration (yet). The reasons why it can be in our base is that: + It is cool because fine grained access to the privilege is possible, and it is the tool that I will want to install on every boxes. + It's BSD licensed So my position would be neutral. Personally I would prefer the following scheme: o FreeBSD Base System is what we "must have" in a basic Unix system, including ls, cat, libc, your kernel, etc. o A set of pre-built packages included in disc1 provides what most people will want, and is small enough, e.g. sudo, c[vs]up, portaudit, freebsd-update, better development environment or scripting languages, e.g. python, etc. These ports are considered special or security critical, maybe maintained under the src/ tree (or sort of), causing every "make buildworld" with some symbol defined to cover upgrades of them, but also permitting portaudit to check vulnerabilities on these packages. Of course this scheme would be complex to implement, so just my 0.02 RMB :-) Cheers, --=20 Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ See complete headers for GPG key and other information. --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC38TJ/cVsHxFZiIoRAtXDAJ9nYIiRj5IuajmfrqvRBbtrDc3oFACfYStG R73xna9JdGVFSjafrhiAAtM= =Arw/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N-- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 16:35:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30C5516A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:35:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: from mail.rfnj.org (ns1.rfnj.org [66.180.172.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CED0C43D4C for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:35:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 9740E316; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megalomaniac.rfnj.org (ool-45736df1.dyn.optonline.net [69.115.109.241]) by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E8622E5 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:35:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050721122658.038f8508@mail.rfnj.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:36:16 -0400 To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org From: asym In-Reply-To: <20050721155241.GA20438@frontfree.net> References: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> <20050721101331.GB854@trit.org> <24999.192.35.35.35.1121959413.squirrel@192.35.35.35> <20050721155241.GA20438@frontfree.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on rfnj.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=20.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.0.4 Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:35:29 -0000 Personally, I would like to see sudo not only in the base system, but in the base system with a default configuration that mimics su(1) and thus replaces it entirely. The only difference is which password you need to provide. After a period for migration (or perhaps just in 6.x and noted in the release notes), su could become just a symlink to sudo. sudo is something I install on absolutely every box, usually symlinking su as above. From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 17:14:38 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027CB16A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:14:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.202]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E24243D8F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:14:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r28so7212nza for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:14:16 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:x-pgp-universal:to:subject:date:mime-version:x-mailer:thread-index:x-mimeole:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-transfer-encoding:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:from:message-id; b=EdjKbMZqciSgXVdKpnJwx2QhVegYNJdUGD13hRUnWN+bUNVL2FlVssfg3UAtwHzsW56zGeX7HsIXrQJ67iG72vJGDhy7Wa+sHmqsCj3XkcYhnU5zni0jgmPq2qoH87YRn8NxKjoNUWnM1W2pkxVT2hUT85SaFYTAScByo9wWeWg= Received: by 10.36.119.17 with SMTP id r17mr344297nzc; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 ([67.183.215.121]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id j7sm2356480nzd.2005.07.21.10.13.42; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 by p3 (PGP Universal service); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:43 -0800 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by p3 on Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:43 -0800 To: Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcWODF4iVOj/M6+GRv6vP4zWRfIa8QACkoYg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Stephen Major Message-ID: <42dfd7c8.619f0abe.46ed.ffffca84@mx.gmail.com> Subject: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:14:38 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 I really do not agree with adding it to the base system. Just because you guys use sudo does not mean other people do. In fact many people do not have a use for sudo at all. Not every one gives out root accounts. You are only adding another utility In that can possibly be used to escalate privileges. Every time I secure a system I spend some time removing files that are never Needed and would not want people to access. So you are saying I would have to add another one to the list? Su works just fine for 60% of the people out there! Leave sudo in the ports. You do not see a bunch of people asking to make apache part of the base system. Really there is no difference in what you are asking. Just another program that is not going to get used by everyone. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Xin LI Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 8:53 AM To: piechota@argolis.org Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org; Dima Dorfman Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? * PGP Signed by an unknown key: 07/21/05 at 08:52:41 On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 10:23:33AM -0500, piechota@argolis.org wrote: > > FWIW, I don't see any reason to include sudo in the base system. It's > > something that I install on every computer, but I don't mind building > > the port or installing it from a package. Unlike some of the other > > things I usually want on every system (e.g., emacs), it's small and > > doesn't have any dependencies, so it's not a problem to install it as > > soon as the system is online. That said, I wouldn't object to having > > it in the base, either. > > I see two reasons for a "nay" vote: If we put everything a group of people > find useful in the base system, we're going to end up with soemthing like > Redhat, where there's tons of software the rarely gets used. Secondly, > some 'customers' have a very dim view of sudo (mostly for bad reasons, but > they ban it anyways). My reasons for why not to have sudo(1) in our base is that: - It is actively maintained and generally speaking it won't be hard to build/install from ports collection. - It provides another way of utilizing privileges, and needs careful configuration. - We do not have a killer application to ease maintaince of the configuration (yet). The reasons why it can be in our base is that: + It is cool because fine grained access to the privilege is possible, and it is the tool that I will want to install on every boxes. + It's BSD licensed So my position would be neutral. Personally I would prefer the following scheme: o FreeBSD Base System is what we "must have" in a basic Unix system, including ls, cat, libc, your kernel, etc. o A set of pre-built packages included in disc1 provides what most people will want, and is small enough, e.g. sudo, c[vs]up, portaudit, freebsd-update, better development environment or scripting languages, e.g. python, etc. These ports are considered special or security critical, maybe maintained under the src/ tree (or sort of), causing every "make buildworld" with some symbol defined to cover upgrades of them, but also permitting portaudit to check vulnerabilities on these packages. Of course this scheme would be complex to implement, so just my 0.02 RMB :-) Cheers, - -- Xin LI http://www.delphij.net/ See complete headers for GPG key and other information. * Unknown Key * 0x1159888A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.0.1 (Build 2185) iQEVAwUBQt/Xx6KXvLS903/FAQrQ0Qf/UP7nPTtgba6bgHn1VJPDjCkMRet0VgL8 CQV+W7JyXrI2Zz5VB7zL0SqJDMGJ+ipTyPkAKTzQk+/0a1zHvZBq5Wa6f9nQ+XWp DLwfzUa1vzMsMCWFybfRSht+h+tN88wlJdkQX4X2N/kEQ6ldj0XYfJoPA7P9j5sS toVWgKDop72uur+3S9FxyeM2Tug0qoMCjypmpIlZkkaub5iWlZaspl8FJIwaozGV sBT3Z/HfKSsH5lQz1NJB5uqeNi23t4XXqzIpxEndHnXFvBguAHqTej04qcl6KBus oXFQ4B4EiClULQjverLf2WTePiXB42rnpyuwganE2KQUFO0fncqDGQ== =rBcb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 17:35:05 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B26316A423 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:35:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: from mail.rfnj.org (ns1.rfnj.org [66.180.172.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8864743D72 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:34:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id C4AAF304; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megalomaniac.rfnj.org (ool-45736df1.dyn.optonline.net [69.115.109.241]) by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3E019E; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050721133118.038f7ac8@mail.rfnj.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:35:41 -0400 To: Stephen Major , From: asym In-Reply-To: <42dfd7c8.619f0abe.46ed.ffffca84@mx.gmail.com> References: <42dfd7c8.619f0abe.46ed.ffffca84@mx.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on rfnj.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=20.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.0.4 Cc: Subject: Re: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:35:05 -0000 At 13:13 7/21/2005, Stephen Major wrote: >You do not see a bunch of people asking to make apache part of the base >system. Really there is no difference in what you are asking. Just another >program that is not going to get used by everyone. I'd take exception to this part. sudo does everything su does, and more, the question seems to be why NOT replace it? The (*)"60%" of people that su works fine for, could live with sudo with no real overhead and no dependencies. The other (*)"40%" of people that do replace su with sudo would have a small annoying bit of work negated. (*)I find your numbers highly suspect. Probably more like 85-90% of people don't care / don't know about sudo etc. ;) Making it part of the base system also negates part of the security issue associated with having it as a port -- we don't need to track every new whiz-bang version in the base like we do in ports, we just keep what works, apply security and bug fixes, and that's it. From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 17:42:34 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D18A16A447 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:42:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd.macgregor@blueyonder.co.uk) Received: from the-macgregors.org (82-46-96-19.cable.ubr06.stav.blueyonder.co.uk [82.46.96.19]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D2AA43D58 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:42:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd.macgregor@blueyonder.co.uk) X-Urban-Legend: Mail headers contain urban legends Received: from fire (rob@fire.macgregor [192.168.32.100]) (user=freebsd mech=LOGIN bits=0) by the-macgregors.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j6LHgA6R018021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:42:11 GMT Message-Id: <200507211742.j6LHgA6R018021@the-macgregors.org> From: "Rob MacGregor" To: Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:42:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050721133118.038f7ac8@mail.rfnj.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Thread-Index: AcWOGshCmBsgW5axQJ2t00Gpi2rMmAAAITAg X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://www.amavis.org/) Subject: RE: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:42:34 -0000 On Thursday, July 21, 2005 6:36 PM, asym <> unleashed the infinite monkeys and produced: > sudo does everything su does, and more, the question seems to be why NOT > replace it? As long as it can, when called as "su" behave exactly as su does, I wouldn't see a problem. The problem I'd have would be if it doesn't. -- Rob | Oh my God! They killed init! You bastards! From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 18:42:36 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E9BC16A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:42:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.203]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4BAE43DA9 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:42:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 16so27724nzp for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:42:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:x-pgp-universal:to:subject:date:mime-version:x-mailer:thread-index:x-mimeole:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-transfer-encoding:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:from:message-id; b=ffjkg4OxIKFUYcIsVML4RvAOF2jPM9gfRbfD1k2Ki3+cq1fgFL59gUv6Ry1721Ye2//0bMxBMlDSqRT+NLH1/AiJJoTzvwlWtxo4uUMbMEqWxkoI5ZUZyFTLedHBGUq+G+AOKV979zlAl1gjUEeWGTPAomYqZkTh//H9c0PrkDw= Received: by 10.36.33.3 with SMTP id g3mr1177447nzg; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 ([67.183.215.121]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id i5sm2371252nzi.2005.07.21.11.41.39; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 by p3 (PGP Universal service); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:41:39 -0800 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by p3 on Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:41:39 -0800 To: Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:41:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcWOGshCmBsgW5axQJ2t00Gpi2rMmAAAITAgAAILXCA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Stephen Major Message-ID: <42dfec65.1f79c486.1943.1e58@mx.gmail.com> Subject: FW: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:42:36 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Sudo requires extra configuration that su does not. Why should I have to waste my time configuring another app just because a handful of people want it? I like su and how it works and I guarantee I am not the only one. You want it replaced replace it your self cd /usr/ports/security/sudo && make install clean That simple! Don't waste our time because you want something to be easier for you - -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Rob MacGregor Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:42 AM To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? On Thursday, July 21, 2005 6:36 PM, asym <> unleashed the infinite monkeys and produced: > sudo does everything su does, and more, the question seems to be why NOT > replace it? As long as it can, when called as "su" behave exactly as su does, I wouldn't see a problem. The problem I'd have would be if it doesn't. - -- Rob | Oh my God! They killed init! You bastards! _______________________________________________ freebsd-security@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-security-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.0.1 (Build 2185) iQEVAwUBQt/sY6KXvLS903/FAQqMLwf/bqsRsc5PB55b0fhsNbZQRbuxrme/MaBH CdDyAF4yH2W8QAT7fMe5rq/SuoTzV4E8eMCcwoNncf/E7dRb04fLUmYVPc7K5MeN 14a1i4dqy4AUkpjqRixQTp7mztytZHJDkMLCv5kD+R8CzTBBp3C5IrVRI5pVdeUu mt8vuIb0cduqiU4yVHl2+N0fcSiv1taJMcb5wpVZicsPSJ/B3p+nmC3S50Y3hUpF 1o/xV0K2hf41ZIor/GzbQ3xJSjcEtEvwehWsoWCDtVAQREYwsjAM4ZUwp7XYKjqA tQ/4g++QfHStjbg2f9xbsbYOOIXRAkj7hT2pqhiPgrUa0qKyLZltrw== =Tvu1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 18:55:07 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9692416A42C for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:55:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mhunter@malcolm.berkeley.edu) Received: from malcolm.berkeley.edu (malcolm.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.206.239]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DB2A43D86 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:54:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mhunter@malcolm.berkeley.edu) Received: from malcolm.berkeley.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by malcolm.berkeley.edu (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6LIsvjM027003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mhunter@malcolm.berkeley.edu) Received: (from mhunter@localhost) by malcolm.berkeley.edu (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id j6LIsucx027002; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mhunter) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:54:56 -0700 From: Mike Hunter To: Stephen Major Message-ID: <20050721185456.GA26578@malcolm.berkeley.edu> References: <42dfec65.1f79c486.1943.1e58@mx.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42dfec65.1f79c486.1943.1e58@mx.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (malcolm.berkeley.edu [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:55:07 -0000 On Jul 21, "Stephen Major" wrote: > Sudo requires extra configuration that su does not. > > Why should I have to waste my time configuring another app just because a > handful of people want it? I like su and how it works and I guarantee I am > not the only one. You want it replaced replace it your self > cd /usr/ports/security/sudo && make install clean > > That simple! Don't waste our time because you want something to be easier > for you Last week I had to do a little work on a 1980's AT&T Unix box. I'm glad that yours isn't the only opinion that has shaped the evolution of unix, or else I'd probably still be using such OSes all day! Sudo is a great tool, and adding it as part of the base system would be a great way to advance the FreeBSD security and usability baseline. After time, maybe enough people would start using sudo in place of su and it would be time to consider retiring su...a process that has happened thousands of times as a natural part of an evolving OS. Mike From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 19:03:47 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0391116A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:03:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: from mail.rfnj.org (ns1.rfnj.org [66.180.172.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC97443D68 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:03:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id B4108309; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megalomaniac.rfnj.org (ool-45736df1.dyn.optonline.net [69.115.109.241]) by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A78B214; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050721150144.03908f58@mail.rfnj.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:04:30 -0400 To: Stephen Major , From: asym In-Reply-To: <42dfec65.1f79c486.1943.1e58@mx.gmail.com> References: <42dfec65.1f79c486.1943.1e58@mx.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on rfnj.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=20.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.0.4 Cc: Subject: Re: FW: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:03:47 -0000 At 14:41 7/21/2005, Stephen Major wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA512 > >Sudo requires extra configuration that su does not. > >Why should I have to waste my time configuring another app just because a >handful of people want it? I like su and how it works and I guarantee I am >not the only one. You want it replaced replace it your self >cd /usr/ports/security/sudo && make install clean > >That simple! Don't waste our time because you want something to be easier >for you No such implication exists. Your claim is baseless. If sudo WERE included in the base system, the default configuration COULD be setup to mimic the very simplistic behavior of su. Hence, you would have to do absolutely nothing, it would only save work. I agree that if sudo is to be called as su (via symlink) as someone else pointed out, then it should behave the same way, but that's a simple thing to do even if sudo doesn't currently support it. I don't know, I only use su long enough to install my "must haves" like sudo, then never again. From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 19:05:57 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDB7B16A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:05:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from haven.freebsd.dk (haven.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D4CA43DA1 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:05:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.48.2]) by haven.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B52BC89; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:05:50 +0000 (UTC) To: Stephen Major From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:13:41 PDT." <42dfd7c8.619f0abe.46ed.ffffca84@mx.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:05:49 +0200 Message-ID: <13950.1121972749@phk.freebsd.dk> Sender: phk@phk.freebsd.dk Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:05:58 -0000 In message <42dfd7c8.619f0abe.46ed.ffffca84@mx.gmail.com>, Stephen Major writes: >I really do not agree with adding it to the base system. If sudo imported into the system doesn't do any more damage than the filesystem space consumed, then I really cannot see any harm being done. If it were configured to DTRT (probably check membership the wheel group ?) I still can't see the problem. If sudo forces everybody to edit a config file, then there is a problem, but I seriously doubt that is the case. There are a lot of wise people who say that UNIX has stagnated for 20 of the thirty years it has existed, and sometimes I'm starting to see things from that side. One things that increasingly irritates me is that in UNIX it takes 60 lines to open a TCP connection because nobody could agree to adding a "nopen()" function to libc which would encapsulate those 60 lines of code. I see the same "spirit" at work here: "Dennis and Ken didn't approve of sudo, it is not documented in any POSIX_MISTAKE, and I never got around to get used to use it, so of course we cannot let it into FreeBSD!" Minimalism is good, but taken it to far is suicidal. Commit it! -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 19:07:38 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BEBF16A45E for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:07:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.200]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 700E643D94 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:07:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i34so57210wra for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:07:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:x-pgp-universal:to:subject:date:mime-version:x-mailer:thread-index:x-mimeole:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-transfer-encoding:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:from:message-id; b=UgyME+Fz9ZQVI2lUh8GUtRbdkAtLBDduOuEe15UGBJu7StnwEEX2hCDU5Q7rTFPKUmNIHRK5C3+JMOV+YWBtU0rIXE8PxR0Wam2QLKWGswqk9gfZSOAILGD34lXtV3QC8z4lj04YVquTKEqUwgoUa27BecplSNc97vyv2TCk0JQ= Received: by 10.54.13.37 with SMTP id 37mr665629wrm; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 ([10.254.2.233]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 38sm863701wrl.2005.07.21.12.06.45; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 by p3 (PGP Universal service); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:06:46 -0800 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by p3 on Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:06:46 -0800 To: Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:06:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcWOJcWZzVllqfP+Sqa/hgAaFwo73QAADgKw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Stephen Major Message-ID: <42dff246.10290f5b.7a23.ffff8bbe@mx.gmail.com> Subject: FW: FW: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:07:39 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 I have grabbed some quotes from various discussions on this topic these are other peoples opinions! ">Regarding su vs. direct login, you should use su, it doesn't give > you much, but it does give you knowledge of who logged in as root > and when (provided that he did not edit the logs :-) Yes, it gives you a huge advantage, assuming you disable direct root logins and only certain accounts are allowed to run su(1). The advantage is that in order to gain root access, you must compromise either a daemon running as root, or an account capable of running su. This decreases your vulnerable profile, as only certain accounts can be used to gain root privileges at all." "> Regarding su vs. direct login, you should use su, it doesn't give > you much, but it does give you knowledge of who logged in as root > and when (provided that he did not edit the logs :-) And if you follow up by disabling direct root logins, you now must first authenticate as a user in order to attempt to guess the root password, and you get those attempts logged. That's a bigger win than logging successful root logins IMO :-) The biggest advantage of sudo, though, is less security-related and more "what did that admin do at 3 am?". Because sudo logs every command, you can see just what was done. Obviously, a malicious user could circumvent this most if not all of the time, but it can be great for seeing what was done with good intentions." "Understand I am NOT arguing against sudo. Properly setup, it's a wonderful tool for giving the power you want to sub-admins and even co-admins get benefit from using it. But that doesn't mean that I'd lock myself out of root entirely as Apple has done. This is an area where they did it wrong, just like having tcsh as the default shell." And beyond that how many holes you going to create by replacing su with sudo just because some admin does not know how to configure it correctly? I too understand the usefulness of the tool but do not replace su with it, many of us like su and how it operates. My servers for instance have 2 accounts in the wheel group, and su to root is perfect for that application. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hunter Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:55 AM To: Stephen Major Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? On Jul 21, "Stephen Major" wrote: > Sudo requires extra configuration that su does not. > > Why should I have to waste my time configuring another app just because a > handful of people want it? I like su and how it works and I guarantee I am > not the only one. You want it replaced replace it your self > cd /usr/ports/security/sudo && make install clean > > That simple! Don't waste our time because you want something to be easier > for you Last week I had to do a little work on a 1980's AT&T Unix box. I'm glad that yours isn't the only opinion that has shaped the evolution of unix, or else I'd probably still be using such OSes all day! Sudo is a great tool, and adding it as part of the base system would be a great way to advance the FreeBSD security and usability baseline. After time, maybe enough people would start using sudo in place of su and it would be time to consider retiring su...a process that has happened thousands of times as a natural part of an evolving OS. Mike _______________________________________________ freebsd-security@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-security-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.0.1 (Build 2185) iQEVAwUBQt/yRqKXvLS903/FAQq5xggAnjeB7D1DJXIj64lBCxvRQ/uIsDlXm94h ey+3c9DLh1jpfUXcNInPi5wSVC8mJDWnu/msT1dWL9hwJvM7+N7WcEgeAOX0D8A2 ZUeE8jhukSLdSDCa1le9htOYkyTgNpgOpqodMeo5p8o/tIvh4YGybC1yQ4gZh2J3 Uq+JmbbciDYesP/NgITlLZei2INAZinhDyQwDkabWiRkrxIWzfYUlhWZpV48H7ov UiGDMkqMkhqTuMc7H/FuMxMEIKmvEhKYpxI/seY2DFxak2puWwSEU1rVpkzbf5bA s0G9w0tdxw4ohQXukLG0O2pp+/7DJloJmsTI7+/wKp8eyqsWnAxY6g== =jao8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 19:11:13 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7311716A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:11:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from simon@zaphod.nitro.dk) Received: from zaphod.nitro.dk (port324.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk [212.242.113.79]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0FF643D68 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:11:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from simon@zaphod.nitro.dk) Received: by zaphod.nitro.dk (Postfix, from userid 3000) id 2D75511A79; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:11:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:11:12 +0200 From: "Simon L. Nielsen" To: asym Message-ID: <20050721191111.GJ880@zaphod.nitro.dk> References: <42dfd7c8.619f0abe.46ed.ffffca84@mx.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050721133118.038f7ac8@mail.rfnj.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IbVRjBtIbJdbeK1C" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050721133118.038f7ac8@mail.rfnj.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: Stephen Major , freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:11:13 -0000 --IbVRjBtIbJdbeK1C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2005.07.21 12:36:16 -0400, asym wrote: > Personally, I would like to see sudo not only in the base system, but in > the base system with a default configuration that mimics su(1) and thus > replaces it entirely. The only difference is which password you need to > provide. After a period for migration (or perhaps just in 6.x and noted = in > the release notes), su could become just a symlink to sudo. Personally I would object to that. I use sudo, so I have nothing against it (except it's default config), but the main reason the above suggestion with replacing sudo with su is a bad idea: [simon@zaphod:sudo-1.6.8p9] cat *.c | wc -l 16357 [simon@zaphod:sudo-1.6.8p9] wc -l /usr/src/usr.bin/su/*.c 572 /usr/src/usr.bin/su/su.c For systems that has use for sudo the increased complexity of a setuid root program can be accepted, but I see no reason to subjecting every other system to the same increased risk without any benefit. And for this argument, sudo's security record is also much more important (compared to just importing it where it can be disabled). In case people want to see what I'm talking about, go to http://www.vuxml.org/freebsd/pkg-sudo.html . (In case anyone should be in doubt; this mail is about su -> sudo, not the general idea of importing sudo, I have commented on that). --=20 Simon L. Nielsen --IbVRjBtIbJdbeK1C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC3/NPh9pcDSc1mlERAr7mAKCzxz0ou4dZOcmgpzHCvQQiyj0X8wCgq7k9 Rc5UP55+Ahq6j32+3gRjYzU= =sWbk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IbVRjBtIbJdbeK1C-- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 19:19:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E09816A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:19:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C832343D46 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:19:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i8so56306rne for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:19:09 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:x-pgp-universal:to:subject:date:mime-version:x-mailer:thread-index:x-mimeole:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-transfer-encoding:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:from:message-id; b=V48RYFWoBXXodTNE7kz2jAzDG0AfMHqNhT9LAoa7MWYDNSKYHr1MP9R13wTAeIjD3gDXi1+uXc+tdVeoX0BkwXX7nUuGInE0OLU8LPui9KnLZ50WkhibrfC1Fz0m2CzbiUqPpF0Uj5UOZ/VfouzzqzIs9NdsbqYKAssvw7/d8m4= Received: by 10.38.75.26 with SMTP id x26mr721831rna; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 ([10.254.2.234]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id a29sm1316724rng.2005.07.21.12.15.42; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 by p3 (PGP Universal service); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:15:42 -0800 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by p3 on Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:15:42 -0800 To: Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:15:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcWOJvdewExn9oYLSZyNm5lTOfaT1wAAKV2A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Stephen Major Message-ID: <42dff45e.41539ce0.3dab.1a53@mx.gmail.com> Subject: FW: FW: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:19:29 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 http://www.freshports.org/security/sudo/ there it is in the ports tree do your research before saying that my claim is baseless And stop before you come back with saying you have to configure it. Because that is exactly my point I do not have to configure anything to use su. And no you could not make sudo "out of the box" ready, for everyone's application. Otherwise the default configs would already be that way when you installed it from ports. I only want 2 users on my system to be in the wheel group and su to full root. But the next guy might want sudo and be able to give limited access to to several "sub-admins" - From my perspective su is more secure than sudo in the fact that an idiot admin cannot screw it up. Unless they set some dumb root password for example: 1234admin - -----Original Message----- From: asym [mailto:bsdlists@rfnj.org] Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:05 PM To: Stephen Major; freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? At 14:41 7/21/2005, Stephen Major wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA512 > >Sudo requires extra configuration that su does not. > >Why should I have to waste my time configuring another app just because a >handful of people want it? I like su and how it works and I guarantee I am >not the only one. You want it replaced replace it your self >cd /usr/ports/security/sudo && make install clean > >That simple! Don't waste our time because you want something to be easier >for you No such implication exists. Your claim is baseless. If sudo WERE included in the base system, the default configuration COULD be setup to mimic the very simplistic behavior of su. Hence, you would have to do absolutely nothing, it would only save work. I agree that if sudo is to be called as su (via symlink) as someone else pointed out, then it should behave the same way, but that's a simple thing to do even if sudo doesn't currently support it. I don't know, I only use su long enough to install my "must haves" like sudo, then never again. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.0.1 (Build 2185) iQEVAwUBQt/0XqKXvLS903/FAQpxpggArPEwNlSgmtqgTvKiSHGpaL7V+0eQRkZ8 jlkZS2weOp3Q8mUtuvTDoJK19LbGT5KDAo4LnzOC3s9W1dYrGT/G5u+hbE67Mrtk pVymrszhRLiZbjGbAQ1q0nA1tYEykkE/xOJ1aTHLg9phct6tM2MEVVXeVGRbgeTN SawZ6bqzPtbNN5AtbpJcRVUzYgyaE3YNKsRGJXecNu2MKFyk/90C2mOVu1Td3jHf /iZiXT8RTHl72lLszZlDOmtTzgZ2rzFBraWIiiEwucsaGUJNia9C46PDQJPyAZZS L1pnvY0UZdrPYheF4FrM6ETMFsjwlNSz3s/SJ3rysMK0bybUo507Iw== =zL/5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 19:44:15 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B2F16A424 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:44:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: from mail.rfnj.org (ns1.rfnj.org [66.180.172.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43EAD43D7B for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:44:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id F1FAE316; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:43:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megalomaniac.rfnj.org (ool-45736df1.dyn.optonline.net [69.115.109.241]) by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65544214; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:43:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050721153814.0390a3d8@mail.rfnj.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:44:50 -0400 To: Stephen Major , From: asym In-Reply-To: <42dff45e.41539ce0.3dab.1a53@mx.gmail.com> References: <42dff45e.41539ce0.3dab.1a53@mx.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on rfnj.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=20.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.0.4 Cc: Subject: Re: FW: FW: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:44:15 -0000 At 15:15 7/21/2005, Stephen Major wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA512 > >http://www.freshports.org/security/sudo/ > > >there it is in the ports tree do your research before saying that my claim >is baseless The claim that you'd have to do any configuring at all is "baseless." >And stop before you come back with saying you have to configure it. >Because that is exactly my point I do not have to configure anything to use >su. > >And no you could not make sudo "out of the box" ready, for everyone's >application. Otherwise the default configs would already be that way when >you installed it from ports. Try logic here rather than just spouting the first thing that comes to mind. It can be duplicated. Exactly. The port contains the following line in the default sudoers(5) file: # %wheel ALL = (ALL) ALL All you need to do is uncomment that and viola, you have default su behavior -- anyone in the wheel group allowed to sudo as any other user. The only difference is it asks for their password instead of the root password, which is how sudo works, the entire point some (including myself) might say. >I only want 2 users on my system to be in the wheel group and su to full >root. > >But the next guy might want sudo and be able to give limited access to to >several "sub-admins" Perhaps, but guess what? sudo gives that opportunity, su does not. Coupled with the fact that sudo can be configured (and should be by default, if in the base system) to allow wheel to function as it does for su, and I say again: your concerns in this regard are entirely baseless. >- From my perspective su is more secure than sudo in the fact that an idiot >admin cannot screw it up. Unless they set some dumb root password for >example: 1234admin There is no security against idiocy. If you make combine "idiot" and "admin" in your environment, and make an "idiot admin" shame on you, not shame on sudo. From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 20:04:00 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB9E16A432 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:04:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F7643D88 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:03:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r35so57164rna for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:03:40 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:x-pgp-universal:to:subject:date:mime-version:x-mailer:thread-index:x-mimeole:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-transfer-encoding:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:from:message-id; b=r+82rm8Wj+4Zghh3cMvpw4Eb9r4fLx0+Z3VvR1vjDTqUAo1mqXJJGU+eVxsRTEVtc1G9TclBGjnxYSIZczhGX7rr/gwfM7uW0rDcLSOG17wQgE4qqZlEhSiX+eDm0tVCxjecW313gPDQP534YC7ncYuNuQeTj3+Lh7sVT+4G2e4= Received: by 10.38.161.48 with SMTP id j48mr93798rne; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 ([10.254.2.231]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id c3sm1394036rne.2005.07.21.12.56.36; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 by p3 (PGP Universal service); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:56:37 -0800 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by p3 on Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:56:37 -0800 To: Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:56:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcWOLIt/yMxOw4UgSteQzoHNRA/7+QAAKeFA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Stephen Major Message-ID: <42dffdf5.3cc8b1ad.3d8c.315f@mx.gmail.com> Subject: FW: FW: FW: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:04:00 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 "All you need to do is uncomment that and viola, you have default su behavior -- anyone in the wheel group allowed to sudo as any other user." Exactly! Every other user can sudo. I run many shell servers I do not want every user being able to sudo. With su, first they have to break into an account that is part of the wheel group. Then they have to get past your root password. You cannot configure sudo to fit everyone's needs. So replacing su Just makes it so the rest of us have to configure it just because you do not want to take 10 minutes and install the port. Then again some people have brought to the table the security flaws found in sudo. What makes it so hard that you cannot install sudo from ports? I will even make you a quick shell script that will do it for you. - -----Original Message----- From: asym [mailto:bsdlists@rfnj.org] Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:45 PM To: Stephen Major; freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: FW: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? At 15:15 7/21/2005, Stephen Major wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA512 > >http://www.freshports.org/security/sudo/ > > >there it is in the ports tree do your research before saying that my claim >is baseless The claim that you'd have to do any configuring at all is "baseless." >And stop before you come back with saying you have to configure it. >Because that is exactly my point I do not have to configure anything to use >su. > >And no you could not make sudo "out of the box" ready, for everyone's >application. Otherwise the default configs would already be that way when >you installed it from ports. Try logic here rather than just spouting the first thing that comes to mind. It can be duplicated. Exactly. The port contains the following line in the default sudoers(5) file: # %wheel ALL = (ALL) ALL All you need to do is uncomment that and viola, you have default su behavior -- anyone in the wheel group allowed to sudo as any other user. The only difference is it asks for their password instead of the root password, which is how sudo works, the entire point some (including myself) might say. >I only want 2 users on my system to be in the wheel group and su to full >root. > >But the next guy might want sudo and be able to give limited access to to >several "sub-admins" Perhaps, but guess what? sudo gives that opportunity, su does not. Coupled with the fact that sudo can be configured (and should be by default, if in the base system) to allow wheel to function as it does for su, and I say again: your concerns in this regard are entirely baseless. >- From my perspective su is more secure than sudo in the fact that an idiot >admin cannot screw it up. Unless they set some dumb root password for >example: 1234admin There is no security against idiocy. If you make combine "idiot" and "admin" in your environment, and make an "idiot admin" shame on you, not shame on sudo. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.0.1 (Build 2185) iQEVAwUBQt/99aKXvLS903/FAQqf8Af/bc7rFdiuvLfF58j5HzJuVbta7ItLB9mb IA5jz1NJLKBnwZSYdGbgn0RpmwYbyxsHjIogO2JnKpMj0GyClBRX1l3HuAthWtbz bnk8apFzYdCrokSmkPLshG+mhGV3OcQZezwz1OcY1AykoRmieDcpMXHIcQh9v3yG kJlwbjF2GcCJD9GEfU3m6InmdsgI3zeHSRNh5FT6phcCiULR7x/T00V5Xr+ksgMt 9apUODZj4zK08BpPIvkKLRUwsGPPVpsP2uU2nk1o2NIY+8APe2CVJpz8+UuERinv q8fVXs/3zCGhmN8VelgvBCQap4kFuxGaDw8qYuySX2CJv8Nn8GjC5Q== =FpOi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 20:07:14 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2065B16A420 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:07:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from listuser@seifried.org) Received: from mail.seifried.org (munky.seifried.org [216.234.161.168]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7E1343E00 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:06:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from listuser@seifried.org) Received: by mail.seifried.org (Postfix, from userid 91) id C0ADDA44109; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:05:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 64DOG (firewall.seifried.org [68.149.198.252]) by mail.seifried.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6BA60A44106 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:05:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <008101c58e30$1066e3c0$1a64110a@64DOG> From: "Kurt Seifried" To: References: <42dfd7c8.619f0abe.46ed.ffffca84@mx.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:09:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on munky.seifried.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=4.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.0.4 Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Kurt Seifried List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:07:14 -0000 Uhh you people realize sudo is COMPLEMENTARY to su? All my Linux and OpenBSD systems (wait for it.....) have _both_ installed by default. Crazy huh? Some example commands: sudo ifconfig blah [enters own password] sudo su - [enters own password] sudo sendmail -q [enters own password] su - [enters root password] Whoa! what's #2? And what's #4? Holy cow! Folks, this is by far the stupidest argument/discussion I have ever seen on a security related mailing list (and I've been on BugTraq and Full-Disclosure for a long time so that's saying something). sudo is complementary to su, you can have both, and sudo has 0, repeat 0 (just to make sure) I repeat _0_ impact on su. It does not replace su. It does not change su's behavior. It does not break su. You can still use su as before, your script will work as expected (I promise). -Kurt Seifried From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 20:11:32 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA45216A421 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:11:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: from mail.rfnj.org (ns1.rfnj.org [66.180.172.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7139543D6D for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:11:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id A7737304; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megalomaniac.rfnj.org (ool-45736df1.dyn.optonline.net [69.115.109.241]) by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19367195; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050721161021.0390e010@mail.rfnj.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:11:36 -0400 To: Stephen Major , From: asym In-Reply-To: <42dffdf5.3cc8b1ad.3d8c.315f@mx.gmail.com> References: <42dffdf5.3cc8b1ad.3d8c.315f@mx.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on rfnj.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=20.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.0.4 Cc: Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:11:32 -0000 At 15:56 7/21/2005, Stephen Major wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA512 > >"All you need to do is uncomment that and viola, you have default su >behavior -- anyone in the wheel group allowed to sudo as any other user." > >Exactly! Every other user can sudo. How EXACTLY do you come to that conclusion? I imagine it has something to do with why you also decided to quote as you did, instead of letting the mailreader do it for you. Uncomment the line I indicated and every user IN THE WHEEL GROUP can sudo. EXACTLY how su works. From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 20:19:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A3216A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:19:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: from mail.rfnj.org (ns1.rfnj.org [66.180.172.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D3643D46 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:19:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 993C2304; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megalomaniac.rfnj.org (ool-45736df1.dyn.optonline.net [69.115.109.241]) by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E3D319E; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:18:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050721161529.038fb470@mail.rfnj.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:19:55 -0400 To: Kurt Seifried , From: asym In-Reply-To: <008101c58e30$1066e3c0$1a64110a@64DOG> References: <42dfd7c8.619f0abe.46ed.ffffca84@mx.gmail.com> <008101c58e30$1066e3c0$1a64110a@64DOG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on rfnj.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=20.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.0.4 Cc: Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:19:06 -0000 At 16:09 7/21/2005, Kurt Seifried wrote: >Uhh you people realize sudo is COMPLEMENTARY to su? All my Linux and >OpenBSD systems (wait for it.....) have _both_ installed by default. Crazy >huh? Some example commands: > >sudo ifconfig blah [enters own password] >sudo su - [enters own password] >sudo sendmail -q [enters own password] >su - [enters root password] > >Whoa! what's #2? And what's #4? Holy cow! For me, #2 and #4 are replaced by "sudo -u root sh" or some other shell, totally obviating the need to have su at all. I realize some people use it in shell scripts and so on, which I will refrain from commenting on, which would make a sudo "su" mode a requirement to have it *replace* su, much like the various "vi" invocation implementations. I see absolutely no reason why sudo should not be in the base system. Not one. I see almost as little need to make it behave as "su" when called as "su", but I can at least see the reasoning behind it, and I also understand that doing so would not be difficult. >Folks, this is by far the stupidest argument/discussion I have ever seen >on a security related mailing list (and I've been on BugTraq and >Full-Disclosure for a long time so that's saying something). If "myth-busting" as I've done with Stephen is "stupid" well, go ahead at tattoo it on my forehead. I'm from a place where education is the cure for stupidity, not the incarnation of it. From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 20:24:02 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8570216A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:24:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.194]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB84643D48 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:24:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i34so85905wra for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:24:00 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:x-pgp-universal:to:subject:date:mime-version:x-mailer:thread-index:x-mimeole:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-transfer-encoding:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:from:message-id; b=MVpNdF8VkSvZJjhTs4WAiORvOi5JGm3mQj4xv+o0gn+9Z6Eg6iC7UhNPrmDOCHZY75SFfGTVkm0qyobdqjCXZHiWgsap6+mZYGaPR9hoV/465o99m2bA+kVmrZ7tH+6WHYJBFk7wKn8KQznPx40VRcyWVpXPn7Q/dQxXxlzESmQ= Received: by 10.54.13.37 with SMTP id 37mr714901wrm; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 ([10.254.2.231]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 29sm928288wrl.2005.07.21.13.23.37; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 by p3 (PGP Universal service); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:23:38 -0800 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by p3 on Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:23:38 -0800 To: Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:23:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcWOMEgmkbFNHaR4Sl6iExB4q4tWSwAANvkw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Stephen Major Message-ID: <42e0044a.3317306b.5585.30fe@mx.gmail.com> Subject: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:24:02 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 You are correct; I made a mistake on that one. Sudo should not be forced upon anyone. I do not care if sudo is part of the base system I just 100% disagree with you wanting to replace su with sudo Look the other post that came from the dude before is 100% correct this is a dumb argument. - -----Original Message----- From: asym [mailto:bsdlists@rfnj.org] Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 1:12 PM To: Stephen Major; freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? At 15:56 7/21/2005, Stephen Major wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA512 > >"All you need to do is uncomment that and viola, you have default su >behavior -- anyone in the wheel group allowed to sudo as any other user." > >Exactly! Every other user can sudo. How EXACTLY do you come to that conclusion? I imagine it has something to do with why you also decided to quote as you did, instead of letting the mailreader do it for you. Uncomment the line I indicated and every user IN THE WHEEL GROUP can sudo. EXACTLY how su works. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.0.1 (Build 2185) iQEVAwUBQuAESqKXvLS903/FAQqMlAf/Rxji6EXKtCWpajvvdyKSy4ov4EeR8fr4 /Cw15RopA1vH8tJaGxM/f7R0pxGVOUAgfB7QAGU/1YEW50IW9pVct218PmwDRvq0 DeTf08RW/AV5CgXbHpN3gsxflKsdkq1suUSTzWVDvVrzi8+DMvJaa/w0TTlP97kk +BhsS3LpxY0ga58aBLxAHgEZoBuJPc6BRGZfnbPbISNTpv9rWsE5fj6brlZxLzOM SlUFhcyUzPARu2ZLdDbGRI6HSWPvr8zl/lLFhRdJ2kfOOkMYW/AB36mMIwF7slDR N7WvOppCxIP1AYNVH9ofc27U6qwL1U1tous4i6N1wL4NuXGeL3f4RQ== =5Ruf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 20:26:24 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 391DB16A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:26:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C8DC43D55 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:26:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r35so61353rna for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:26:21 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:x-pgp-universal:to:subject:date:mime-version:x-mailer:thread-index:x-mimeole:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-transfer-encoding:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:from:message-id; b=b3ATHGliRHX6x08kaXFWSh9i+4+RagDaQoeN3Kpz5SeqhJvvxxbKUgfaftdZ7QfiFfhMXNZQcXZuq5cQS9Knz7kTI97euA5oGBhgJisljS+Z094077TATE23aHGucvIOT9SeCxuG/MUEw1kttTtHKNLRDNHgP1r4Pod2wTcQtzM= Received: by 10.38.90.13 with SMTP id n13mr1796175rnb; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 ([10.254.2.225]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id f3sm1397192rne.2005.07.21.13.14.22; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 by p3 (PGP Universal service); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:14:22 -0800 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by p3 on Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:14:22 -0800 To: Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:14:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcWOL+z05BBJgdZWSJyN+RfMPIoUxAAAFOXQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Stephen Major Message-ID: <42e0021e.33f67733.0713.2213@mx.gmail.com> Subject: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:26:24 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Thank you!!! He is saying he wants it to replace su I do not care what they do with sudo as long as su does not get touched. And if it is a default in the base system a must would be to leave the ALL line commented out in the sudoers file. So people who do not want their users to have access to sudo are not stuck with it being a default. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Seifried Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 1:09 PM To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? Uhh you people realize sudo is COMPLEMENTARY to su? All my Linux and OpenBSD systems (wait for it.....) have _both_ installed by default. Crazy huh? Some example commands: sudo ifconfig blah [enters own password] sudo su - [enters own password] sudo sendmail -q [enters own password] su - [enters root password] Whoa! what's #2? And what's #4? Holy cow! Folks, this is by far the stupidest argument/discussion I have ever seen on a security related mailing list (and I've been on BugTraq and Full-Disclosure for a long time so that's saying something). sudo is complementary to su, you can have both, and sudo has 0, repeat 0 (just to make sure) I repeat _0_ impact on su. It does not replace su. It does not change su's behavior. It does not break su. You can still use su as before, your script will work as expected (I promise). - -Kurt Seifried _______________________________________________ freebsd-security@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-security-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.0.1 (Build 2185) iQEVAwUBQuACHqKXvLS903/FAQrJ6QgAsUTD2kvgFPvjjadyb2btN3xWwtEMhyxV nHd1innapH88wcvolXXaNQEGTy7+ZYdiTuJqhud7Whq5vDA7yBfPnzyY8MrdWHtt w64qQPgpwlPRs9J7TH08R/oWmgJhsC1k/vz3oYu9n4cmz/ElLVKBQMzkYZykOEE5 04qHhfFogTudLDZ0AO3ArD3OWV7trTZjDFvJ5sE9AOHofjx2LY9Rxc41+l0Sb5K/ g68PvFtspkRjLhrv41H0NQFEmr/RNiktCfanhdVfbsHfwCnUzp1zbt8uFxfn80t5 mv2ZDG/DwWx4IY6eP/y3U12Bj6cQJlcRDh2WO9Nu84KNoDEiggUhZw== =KXmy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 20:47:29 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E770A16A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:47:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E8F943D45 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:47:29 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from smajor@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id y7so72770rne for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:47:28 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:x-pgp-universal:to:subject:date:mime-version:x-mailer:thread-index:x-mimeole:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-transfer-encoding:x-content-pgp-universal-saved-content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:from:message-id; b=RAZic7p6XsJiBqOuF9FIFEaYRnVMUNbd861qsT1R0bZAkVFbNkRKlC/wv9yYDRiaA0XhSBQWjwvyqNNgulNFql6nHvRvZW5bwAotvHo84lGJJrrOQSFYO31OVzOEQtuFNGR8pSXz2+CrmiUDSo50krscDDvp1WihXRMHxNMqAQE= Received: by 10.38.11.40 with SMTP id 40mr581752rnk; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 ([10.254.2.226]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id j20sm1453490rnf.2005.07.21.13.38.21; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3 by p3 (PGP Universal service); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:38:21 -0800 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by p3 on Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:38:21 -0800 To: Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:38:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcWOMEgmkbFNHaR4Sl6iExB4q4tWSwAANvkwAACQC5A= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-PGP-Universal-Saved-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Stephen Major Message-ID: <42e007bd.235d06da.4640.0ac5@mx.gmail.com> Subject: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:47:30 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 I apologize to everyone for the argument flood I should have phrased my statement differently, My intentional statement to him was to not replace su and to not have sudo enabled by default whether it is added to the base system or not. Everyone does not use it and should not be required to use it. I apologize again for not stating this correctly in the first message. Respectfully, Stephen -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Desktop 9.0.1 (Build 2185) iQEVAwUBQuAHvaKXvLS903/FAQpw0Af+Py4k2H6bALRiLKWGp2DTY5frHmudtZJZ /BWye4WYc5/u5ihvTFGNdb+SAFsazwGKwgV2d3/eolW2LDQkKW3+tMiiu0U/pJm5 3fJz/jrsnnVKf2Kxy6fHInL69EZiXlUDxUEjC1UsUCfzgFD8VssWvjqUdi8XZ6/d qvy3EPxNGN4vjNx3R1rtWhcmfKauHCWWTDH0v+UGtqty2HXabHQp1cqfyR4zfTVN kNgCbeLMK0UTkGP92UIzwg6Mv0XFxP2VzZM5LzkiyOO5NBL81dwrRT1e3yyZffRq G5I1325yqA/5htIQIBxc/PVy9fXrlnvl9fL3VUTNCPqFXGDdfGjecQ== =nqEx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 22:42:34 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 099D516A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:42:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tataz@tataz.chchile.org) Received: from postfix3-1.free.fr (postfix3-1.free.fr [213.228.0.44]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC2943DAD for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:42:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tataz@tataz.chchile.org) Received: from tatooine.tataz.chchile.org (vol75-8-82-233-239-98.fbx.proxad.net [82.233.239.98]) by postfix3-1.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55651734D2; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 00:42:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: by tatooine.tataz.chchile.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B306E407E; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 00:41:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 00:41:56 +0200 From: Jeremie Le Hen To: Stephen Major Message-ID: <20050721224156.GK39292@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> References: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> <42e007bd.235d06da.4640.0ac5@mx.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42e007bd.235d06da.4640.0ac5@mx.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:42:34 -0000 Hi Stephen, > I apologize to everyone for the argument flood I should have phrased my > statement differently, My intentional statement to him was to not replace su > and to not have sudo enabled by default whether it is added to the base > system or not. Everyone does not use it and should not be required to use > it. I apologize again for not stating this correctly in the first message. I don't want to take the evil role, but it would be nice for all readers who use a mailer that sort mail by threads (and this is almost everybody, I think), to use a mailer which is able to handle In-Reply-To headers :-). Gmail does this perfectly, Yahoo! mail too. Thank you. Best regards, -- Jeremie Le Hen < jeremie at le-hen dot org >< ttz at chchile dot org > From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 22 02:32:30 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C863016A475 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 02:32:30 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ender@tog.net) Received: from tog.net (tog.net [216.89.226.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C2443D7E for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 02:32:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ender@tog.net) Received: by tog.net (Postfix, from userid 96) id A29D629B669; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:32:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0-pre4-r208823-terranovanet_v6 (2005-07-01) on spamsmacker.terranova.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=7.1 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0-pre4-r208823-terranovanet_v6 Received: from [192.168.0.104] (unknown [216.89.225.151]) by tog.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8052A29B658 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42E058BC.9070004@tog.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:23:56 -0400 From: ender User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org References: <42e0044a.3317306b.5585.30fe@mx.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <42e0044a.3317306b.5585.30fe@mx.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 02:32:31 -0000 Stephen Major wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA512 > >You are correct; I made a mistake on that one. > >Sudo should not be forced upon anyone. >I do not care if sudo is part of the base system >I just 100% disagree with you wanting to replace su with sudo > >Look the other post that came from the dude before is 100% correct this is a >dumb argument. > > > > If sudo offered the opportunity for more features, but by default behaved exactly the same way as su, I would see no disadvantages to replacing su with sudo. Am i missing something? From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 22 03:07:21 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B0F016A420 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 03:07:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from markzero@logik.ath.cx) Received: from addr9.addr.com (addr9.addr.com [209.249.147.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F0643D6A for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 03:07:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from markzero@logik.ath.cx) Received: from logik.ath.cx (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by addr9.addr.com (8.12.11/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id j6M379nc099680; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by logik.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 13A6D6588; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 04:07:08 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 04:07:07 +0100 From: markzero To: ender Message-ID: <20050722030707.GA39218@logik.ath.cx> References: <42e0044a.3317306b.5585.30fe@mx.gmail.com> <42E058BC.9070004@tog.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gKMricLos+KVdGMg" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42E058BC.9070004@tog.net> X-GPG-Key: http://darklogik.org/pub/pgp/pgp.txt X-Fingerprint: B776 43DC 8A5D EAF9 2126 9A67 A7DA 390F DEFF 9DD1 X-ADDRSpamFilter: Passed, probability (10%) X-ADDRSignature: 144B47DC Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 03:07:21 -0000 --gKMricLos+KVdGMg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 10:23:56PM -0400, ender wrote: > Stephen Major wrote: >=20 > >You are correct; I made a mistake on that one. > >Sudo should not be forced upon anyone. > >I do not care if sudo is part of the base system > >I just 100% disagree with you wanting to replace su with sudo > > > >Look the other post that came from the dude before is 100% correct this = is=20 > >a > >dumb argument. > > > If sudo offered the opportunity for more features, but by default=20 > behaved exactly the same way as su, I would see no disadvantages to=20 > replacing su with sudo. Am i missing something? What happens if you maintain systems that don't need sudo? M --=20 pgp: http://www.darklogik.org/pub/pgp/pgp.txt B776 43DC 8A5D EAF9 2126 9A67 A7DA 390F DEFF 9dD1 --gKMricLos+KVdGMg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iQIVAwUBQuBi2qfaOQ/e/53RAQpaAhAAopaBmXx/U1xRb4igo6O1ERe6a6p8RXwX FUdlGdA5NJfX4oxja9Lnru8S5tNtRIhYb3mHWCwCvteKZHR1XeXiWaXoz+IOQ/jM Nvc89IEq2iXxXXVX/1R+OJdIPJ4BGeTM8iEUly5btX7RWgRjdO4FfVIcYcq+hRl/ AhKAamd+VhTbw2udbxL5yQqzjHc1a300Fsvv2+e2mM+Mywy5OXjIYqJodO1C0Y7N ALVO0WCFKrcy7vo/mVQj0/q1sJBQEm9Qu9QXwB4PKGFJGt/6+IboIfyNHitkIDCj N0v+XWMSFnqOievdnHBVmwByW/RIwMx3a5kt6gf1TSYCWv6TT9R2mPupUmrJvC10 ZkLTFGir6o0WpXKifnyLnOsepyQuOWG1Y/AAyeiTZ+1930j/Jtks4axzfkV69f/n tIC/2ekJCPq1bS07OKNm6w5gnqm3D9bdN2BC75aZrF9RUf+oebdiOB7e2SdZ4kCu pNv8FB5idgLP2AY0jupURjI1sYNT68h+tKIfwRx8G9vHE+QI7/oAejFdkALjHQAX G4QYFS2Q1JgFZ3zbvnWK194WDLwzkT/UwU55c+twYda1qmIG0r5TmVgqOlC1NnfD ViAnjrbP+9y6ySRLreg2CqSODj9BMffQDICicERLyHMeADYnPcHcwglSXD8+pv/A 2FEN/RMO52c= =iWxa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gKMricLos+KVdGMg-- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 22 04:28:05 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7247016A41F for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 04:28:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: from mail.rfnj.org (ns1.rfnj.org [66.180.172.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E023F43D7B for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 04:27:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from asym@rfnj.org) Received: by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 821342E3; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 00:27:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megalomaniac.rfnj.org (ool-45736df1.dyn.optonline.net [69.115.109.241]) by mail.rfnj.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D37452D5; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 00:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050722002806.03860150@mail.rfnj.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 00:28:41 -0400 To: markzero , ender From: asym In-Reply-To: <20050722030707.GA39218@logik.ath.cx> References: <42e0044a.3317306b.5585.30fe@mx.gmail.com> <42E058BC.9070004@tog.net> <20050722030707.GA39218@logik.ath.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on rfnj.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=20.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.0.4 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 04:28:05 -0000 At 23:07 7/21/2005, markzero wrote: >On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 10:23:56PM -0400, ender wrote: > > Stephen Major wrote: > > > > If sudo offered the opportunity for more features, but by default > > behaved exactly the same way as su, I would see no disadvantages to > > replacing su with sudo. Am i missing something? > >What happens if you maintain systems that don't need sudo? You don't use the additional features. That was a hard one. Next? From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 22 05:05:56 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8006416A422 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 05:05:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from markzero@logik.ath.cx) Received: from addr9.addr.com (addr9.addr.com [209.249.147.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4E2743D55 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 05:05:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from markzero@logik.ath.cx) Received: from logik.ath.cx (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by addr9.addr.com (8.12.11/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id j6M55aOe036084; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by logik.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 710F56588; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 06:05:36 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 06:05:36 +0100 From: markzero To: asym Message-ID: <20050722050536.GA27478@logik.ath.cx> References: <42e0044a.3317306b.5585.30fe@mx.gmail.com> <42E058BC.9070004@tog.net> <20050722030707.GA39218@logik.ath.cx> <6.2.1.2.2.20050722002806.03860150@mail.rfnj.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BXVAT5kNtrzKuDFl" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050722002806.03860150@mail.rfnj.org> X-GPG-Key: http://darklogik.org/pub/pgp/pgp.txt X-Fingerprint: B776 43DC 8A5D EAF9 2126 9A67 A7DA 390F DEFF 9DD1 X-ADDRSpamFilter: Passed, probability (10%) X-ADDRSignature: 36636DD6 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FW: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 05:05:56 -0000 --BXVAT5kNtrzKuDFl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 22, 2005 at 12:28:41AM -0400, asym wrote: > At 23:07 7/21/2005, markzero wrote: > >On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 10:23:56PM -0400, ender wrote: > >> Stephen Major wrote: > >> > >> If sudo offered the opportunity for more features, but by default > >> behaved exactly the same way as su, I would see no disadvantages to > >> replacing su with sudo. Am i missing something? > > > >What happens if you maintain systems that don't need sudo? >=20 > You don't use the additional features. That was a hard one. Next? Don't patronise me. This is supposed to be a mailing list discussing security, not a childish pissing contest. It is a valid concern when a tiny, well tested SUID binary is to be replaced with one almost seven times its size: $ wc -l /usr/src/usr.bin/su/su.c=20 572 /usr/src/usr.bin/su/su.c By comparison: http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/sudo/ $ du -h `which sudo` 98K /usr/local/bin/sudo $ du -h `which su` 14K /usr/bin/su I am not opposed to having sudo in the base system, I am however opposed to it replacing su. I use sudo on about a third of my systems, on those that I don't, I would no longer have the option to remove it unless I wanted a crippled, su-less system. If sudo does not replace su, those that don't use it can remove it. Those that use it - good, less work for them. Everybody is happy. M --=20 pgp: http://www.darklogik.org/pub/pgp/pgp.txt B776 43DC 8A5D EAF9 2126 9A67 A7DA 390F DEFF 9dD1 --BXVAT5kNtrzKuDFl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (FreeBSD) iQIVAwUBQuB+nqfaOQ/e/53RAQr3AA/+Mm0V3bLsV1ZkkxYZd3rzloF9a5QdsNQD CAoCELSPOcM1kE3gDZSf5brbgS3LgPZc3ac3WHZxGCzTtp0qzgwJDU9xxw0kIzs/ etOAur1f99lO5HaM2qesEJgXqwvT9gMfE2x+iFdf6juNA4Wn2IuhDWdqtAVP29Kj 8UsqziTK8ebrtKZvrS7Mvhd28o8xBzTE8vK865B/M7QUwc3/7C3ADZ8ES2pl+BOR LTdmFIQgl6DaX6AU8dDOX/8HzhI/fFkKc4P6qEHgbNe0v059D58CSSV4vj8Kaf3h e53ql1pIZ/n0mF7FsUjzYDZj7E3LFQJ2WMUWbjJpLz85VxOPenGRv0Twbh2sMErg 2nG8d+3rVOHeRd4jzMTADZaQXBm7ZqdBldL1mqTFUnORN56o+pCXNgLzpZ+IPlhA ws4oz2aSQsVY/KfSEOvY4lJkG6ZJhAQw9NHDF1JBEyztGV0omFbiS3xCCL2Ncfc0 6E08ywhk5fnSfwr4zaEOyJYirTT7oHQHobFZTk8GeLSXVx7lOPaUu48hmLL5UfKo nHUdw4id41wwA22LJUNTPx+7S9XokO/AGxRnK55smwsg2R9wZS+C8l3r4eB4Y9gq khfLSWl6JJyqEHtpT9jSxe7X64v09H78ku1PC8gL0gSTjYrT9RYXBcU64usimQuD Wn44c3mkf+0= =wgsI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BXVAT5kNtrzKuDFl-- From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 16:00:40 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0EE516A44E; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:00:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from rosebud.otenet.gr (rosebud.otenet.gr [195.170.0.94]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC62A43D53; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:00:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from keramida@freebsd.org) Received: from beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv (aris.bedc.ondsl.gr [62.103.39.226]) by rosebud.otenet.gr (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-1) with SMTP id j6LG00Gq012696; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:00:01 +0300 Received: from beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6LG00Dq020545; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:00:00 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3/Submit) id j6LG001C020544; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:00:00 +0300 (EEST) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:00:00 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: "Simon L. Nielsen" Message-ID: <20050721160000.GA20526@beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv> References: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> <20050721101331.GB854@trit.org> <20050721102012.GG16179@beatrix.daedalusnetworks.priv> <20050721153202.GF880@zaphod.nitro.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050721153202.GF880@zaphod.nitro.dk> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 14:41:00 +0000 Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:00:41 -0000 On 2005-07-21 17:32, "Simon L. Nielsen" wrote: >On 2005.07.21 13:20:12 +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >> My thoughts exactly. The only thing I'd like to add is that the port is >> that importing it to the base system would probably require someone who >> steps up and offers to maintain it as bugfixes/features are noticed in >> the upstream source. But, I guess, this is more or less obvious. > > Personally I have a preference for not having it in the base system > for the simple reason that we would need to make security advisories > for it... and while I don't remember any grave holes, there certainly > have been a few holes over the last year. True. Thanks for the followup from the secteam's perspective :-) From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 16:37:53 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 542F216A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:37:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu) Received: from khavrinen.csail.mit.edu (khavrinen.csail.mit.edu [128.30.28.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 229FD43DAB for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:37:25 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu) Received: from khavrinen.csail.mit.edu (localhost.csail.mit.edu [127.0.0.1]) by khavrinen.csail.mit.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j6LGbOPc033951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK CN=khavrinen.csail.mit.edu issuer=Client+20CA); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:37:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.csail.mit.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id j6LGbOIj033948; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:37:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman) From: Garrett Wollman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17119.53059.856310.876840@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:37:23 -0400 To: asym In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050721122658.038f8508@mail.rfnj.org> References: <42DCC503.5000408@ludd.ltu.se> <20050719213356.GA1614@gothmog.gr> <20050721101331.GB854@trit.org> <24999.192.35.35.35.1121959413.squirrel@192.35.35.35> <20050721155241.GA20438@frontfree.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20050721122658.038f8508@mail.rfnj.org> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.4 (patch 17) "Jumbo Shrimp" XEmacs Lucid X-Greylist: Sender DNS name whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (khavrinen.csail.mit.edu [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:37:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.1/987/Thu Jul 21 10:57:41 2005 on khavrinen.csail.mit.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on khavrinen.csail.mit.edu X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 14:41:00 +0000 Cc: freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adding OpenBSD sudo to the FreeBSD base system? X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:37:53 -0000 < said: > Personally, I would like to see sudo not only in the base system, but in > the base system with a default configuration that mimics su(1) and thus > replaces it entirely. The only difference is which password you need to > provide. After a period for migration (or perhaps just in 6.x and noted in > the release notes), su could become just a symlink to sudo. su(8) already has the behavior you want. (Now implemented in a PAM module, and I forget the precise details.) -GAWollman