From owner-freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 00:28:39 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: standards@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD88616A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 00:28:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A5D744657 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 00:28:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j770RTjp071863; Sat, 6 Aug 2005 18:27:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 18:28:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20050806.182832.69698258.imp@bsdimp.com> To: wollman@csail.mit.edu From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <17141.2993.393364.510305@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> References: <17140.60527.658336.649822@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> <20050806.130024.75615324.imp@bsdimp.com> <17141.2993.393364.510305@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 06 Aug 2005 18:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Cc: standards@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inconsistancy between mktime and system time accross leapsecond X-BeenThere: freebsd-standards@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Standards compliance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 00:28:39 -0000 In message: <17141.2993.393364.510305@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> Garrett Wollman writes: : The Standard may be wrong, but the committee has been unable to make : progress on this issue in more than a decade of sometimes-contentious : debate, so the existing language stands. So are we therefore precluded from fixing this obvious bug? This is stupid and wrong. Warner From owner-freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 01:07:57 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: standards@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EED416A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:07:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu) Received: from khavrinen.csail.mit.edu (khavrinen.csail.mit.edu [128.30.28.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A2643D45 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:07:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu) Received: from khavrinen.csail.mit.edu (localhost.csail.mit.edu [127.0.0.1]) by khavrinen.csail.mit.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j7717n8Z069721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK CN=khavrinen.csail.mit.edu issuer=Client+20CA); Sat, 6 Aug 2005 21:07:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.csail.mit.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id j7717jA7069718; Sat, 6 Aug 2005 21:07:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman) From: Garrett Wollman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17141.24289.89443.373347@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 21:07:45 -0400 To: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20050806.182832.69698258.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <17140.60527.658336.649822@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> <20050806.130024.75615324.imp@bsdimp.com> <17141.2993.393364.510305@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> <20050806.182832.69698258.imp@bsdimp.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.4 (patch 17) "Jumbo Shrimp" XEmacs Lucid X-Greylist: Sender DNS name whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (khavrinen.csail.mit.edu [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 06 Aug 2005 21:07:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on khavrinen.csail.mit.edu Cc: standards@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inconsistancy between mktime and system time accross leapsecond X-BeenThere: freebsd-standards@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Standards compliance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 01:07:57 -0000 < said: > So are we therefore precluded from fixing this obvious bug? This is > stupid and wrong. Committee membership is open to all. The 1003.1 standard is up for review next year; you are welcome to try to persuade the sponsors (IEEE, ISO, Open Group) that the current situation is unacceptable. I did my part in 2001. The reason this discussion always gets ratholed is that you'll find all sorts of people with other agendas piling on to get the time interfaces "fixed" for their particular concerns. Never mind that the domain of time_t has no logical connection to the leap-second botch; there are people who will insist that the latter cannot be fixed unless the committee simultaneously "fixes" the Y2038 problem. Other people will want to get reentrant timezone handling. Thankfully, Bernstein is not on the committee (that I've seen) so at least there's nobody insisting that the only possible correct approach is to import libtai. -GAWollman From owner-freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 7 01:49:00 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: standards@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9851616A41F for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:48:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FDBC43F63 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:19:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j771HXaa072220; Sat, 6 Aug 2005 19:17:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 19:18:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20050806.191837.74404113.imp@bsdimp.com> To: wollman@csail.mit.edu From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <17141.24289.89443.373347@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> References: <17141.2993.393364.510305@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> <20050806.182832.69698258.imp@bsdimp.com> <17141.24289.89443.373347@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (harmony.bsdimp.com [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 06 Aug 2005 19:17:33 -0600 (MDT) Cc: standards@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Inconsistancy between mktime and system time accross leapsecond X-BeenThere: freebsd-standards@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Standards compliance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 01:49:00 -0000 In message: <17141.24289.89443.373347@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> Garrett Wollman writes: : < said: : : > So are we therefore precluded from fixing this obvious bug? This is : > stupid and wrong. : : Committee membership is open to all. The 1003.1 standard is up for : review next year; you are welcome to try to persuade the sponsors : (IEEE, ISO, Open Group) that the current situation is unacceptable. : I did my part in 2001. OK. : The reason this discussion always gets ratholed is that you'll find : all sorts of people with other agendas piling on to get the time : interfaces "fixed" for their particular concerns. Never mind that the : domain of time_t has no logical connection to the leap-second botch; : there are people who will insist that the latter cannot be fixed : unless the committee simultaneously "fixes" the Y2038 problem. Other : people will want to get reentrant timezone handling. Thankfully, : Bernstein is not on the committee (that I've seen) so at least there's : nobody insisting that the only possible correct approach is to import : libtai. Uggg. We'll at least there's that :-) It would only take a small change too to fix this botch... Warner From owner-freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 8 11:02:06 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-standards@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-standards@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF12316A42C for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:02:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAC0F43D58 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:02:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (peter@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j78B25am006980 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:02:05 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id j78B24bM006974 for freebsd-standards@freebsd.org; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:02:04 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 11:02:04 GMT Message-Id: <200508081102.j78B24bM006974@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: peter set sender to owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to you X-BeenThere: freebsd-standards@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Standards compliance List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 11:02:06 -0000 Current FreeBSD problem reports Critical problems Serious problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2001/03/05] bin/25542 standards /bin/sh: null char in quoted string o [2002/12/13] kern/46239 standards posix semaphore implementation errors o [2003/04/21] standards/51209standards [PATCH] add a64l()/l64a/l64a_r functions o [2003/07/12] standards/54410standards one-true-awk not POSIX compliant (no exte o [2004/11/03] standards/73500standards 'set +o' in /bin/sh does not include unse o [2005/03/03] standards/78357standards getaddrinfo() doesn't appear to support A o [2005/06/25] standards/82654standards C99 long double math functions are missin o [2005/08/04] standards/84539standards [ patch ] add support of -V and -v args f 8 problems total. Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2000/09/24] bin/21519 standards sys/dir.h should be deprecated some more o [2001/01/16] bin/24390 standards Replacing old dir-symlinks when using /bi s [2001/01/24] standards/24590standards timezone function not compatible witn Sin s [2001/06/18] kern/28260 standards UIO_MAXIOV needs to be made public p [2001/11/20] standards/32126standards getopt(3) not Unix-98 conformant s [2002/03/19] standards/36076standards Implementation of POSIX fuser command o [2002/06/14] standards/39256standards [v]snprintf aren't POSIX-conformant for s o [2002/07/09] kern/40378 standards stdlib.h gives needless warnings with -an p [2002/08/12] standards/41576standards POSIX compliance of ln(1) o [2002/10/23] standards/44425standards getcwd() succeeds even if current dir has o [2002/12/09] standards/46119standards Priority problems for SCHED_OTHER using p o [2003/07/24] standards/54809standards pcvt deficits o [2003/07/25] standards/54833standards more pcvt deficits o [2003/07/25] standards/54839standards pcvt deficits o [2003/07/31] standards/55112standards glob.h, glob_t's gl_pathc should be "size o [2003/09/05] standards/56476standards cd9660 unicode support simple hack o [2003/10/29] standards/58676standards grantpt(3) alters storage used by ptsname s [2004/02/14] standards/62858standards malloc(0) not C99 compliant p [2004/02/21] standards/63173standards Patch to add getopt_long_only(3) to libc o [2004/03/29] kern/64875 standards [patch] add a system call: fdatasync() o [2004/05/07] standards/66357standards make POSIX conformance problem ('sh -e' & o [2004/05/11] standards/66531standards _gettemp uses a far smaller set of filena o [2004/08/22] standards/70813standards [PATCH] ls not Posix compliant o [2004/08/26] docs/70985 standards [patch] sh(1): incomplete documentation o o [2004/09/22] standards/72006standards floating point formating in non-C locales o [2005/03/20] standards/79055standards Add an IFS regression test for shells o [2005/03/20] standards/79056standards regex(3) regression tests o [2005/03/21] standards/79067standards /bin/sh should be more intelligent about o [2005/05/20] standards/81287standards [PATCH]: fingerd(8) might send a line not o [2005/07/21] standards/83845standards [ patch ] add log2() and log2f() support o [2005/07/22] standards/83919standards ls man page "sort by size" example out no 31 problems total.