From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 27 07:19:07 2006
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Subject: This will feel good ga
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 27 12:15:09 2006
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From: Oliver Fromme <olli@lurza.secnetix.de>
To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, mchauber@gmx.net
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Cc:
Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS...
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Mike Hauber <mchauber@gmx.net> wrote:
> [...]
> PS... One more question... Being that Linux emulation is available
> as a port for the BSDs, I would assume (but haven't taken the time
> to research) that GPLd code is used. If there comes to be issues
> with Linux, what would that mean for BSDs compatibility in regards
> to emulation?
FreeBSD's "Linuxulator" consists of two parts: The kernel
ABI which implements the Linux syscalls (usually loaded as
a kernel module), and the userland part (Linux libs, some
binaries etc.) that's located in/compat/linux. [*]
The former has been implemented by FreeBSD programmers and
therefore is under BSD license, not GPL. The latter comes
from a stock Fedora Core 4 distribution, most of which is
under GPL license.
Personally I don't believe that the SCO issue will lead to
any problems with generic Linux code. But _if_ there will
be such problems, then it might affect the userland part
in /compat/linux. It will _not_ affect the Linux ABI in
the kernel. In the worst case you won't be able to run
dynamically linked Linux programs anymore that depend on
Linux libraries for which you don't have a license. You
will still be able to run statically linked Linux binaries
(provided you have the licenses to run them if required,
of course).
Best regards
Oliver
PS: [*] There's also linprocfs, which is a synthetic file
system implementing PROCFS for Linux compatibility. It's
usually mounted on /compat/linux/proc if required (not all
Linux programs require it). As far as I know, it is also
a re-implementation and thus under BSD license, so there's
no problem.
--
Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing
Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd
Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author
and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way.
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this
is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where
they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting
under them as they fly overhead." -- RFC 1925
From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 27 20:05:26 2006
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From: "Julian Stacey" <jhs@berklix.org>
Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix C Net Consultancy, Munich/Muenchen
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Subject: Anyone know of a pre ready presentation for Alternatives to
Microsoft?
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Anyone know of a pre- ready presentation for Alternatives To Microsoft ?
I've been asked to give a presentation (in English) to a bunch of
engineers in Munich end of Jan 2007. On the basis "A good engineer
is a lazy engineer", I'm asking before I write my own.
I am _Not_ inviting a long thread, to rehash old well worn opinions
of PD src/ etc. It'd bore me silly to read, let alone respond ;-)
& be very inefficient & achieve nothing useful to me. I have decades
of experience as an engineer & with Unix/BSD & have a BSD group
here to back me up with ideas & criticism verbally & localy, faster,
more efficient than typing etc :-)
What I don't have, but seek is a set of beamer slides I could
leverage from to save me time. (BTW I could equally leverage from
German or perhaps French slides if existant). I could also leverage
from a linux based slide set prob faster than starting from scratch,
or at least for inspiration.
Anyone know of a similar presention pre-exisiting, Re. Unix that I
could leverage from (& give credit to) ? Of course if I have to
write my own, I'll make mine public on web for others to leverage
from).
I'll probably use a beamer with /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint unless
advised better ? (I dont fancy open office bloat to show
.pps, & dont particularly want to learn how to prepare .pps slides,
(though I'll probably show a few .pss) from a different topic to show that
power point presentations are also showable under BSD.
I've bcc'd this to Berkeley In Munich http://berklix.org/bim/ where
Ernst has volunteered to help me, & others welcome too, but prob.
best focus short discussion searching for URLs for now via list
freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Then later, nearer date doubtless
some local mail to BIM's list.
URLs to presentations welcome. Thanks
Julian
--
Julian Stacey. BSD Unix C Net Consultancy, Munich/Muenchen http://berklix.com
Mail Ascii, not HTML. Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz.
http://berklix.org/free-software
From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 27 22:09:44 2006
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Subject: Re: Anyone know of a pre ready presentation for Alternatives
to Microsoft?
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this is exactly the kind of thing that i could use in
a training concept that i am launching in early 2007.
one of my foci is on startups/entrepreneurs and their limited funds, e. g.,
licensing fees,
open_source in general,
make_versus_buy in general,
"the unix way",
the joy of diy,
reliability,
trust,
inexpensive networking,
more inexpensive machines [ servers and content ],
fewer expensive machines [ graphics and presentation ].
my target audience for this focus is new members of local chambers of commerce.
now, i can do most of this myself for those areas with which i am familiar,
but there are other areas [ some of which i --would-- actually remember ],
with which i have little contact, where i wouldn't do such a good job.
for example, i am just --not-- a multimedia kind of guy
[ on computers, anyway; i --love-- film - go figure ].
i particularly like the idea of incorporating
some one or more things produced by someone else,
to whom i then give prominent credit,
because it tangibly demonstrates the existence of our global community.
perhaps there is something i can contribute?
[ hmmm ... [ pause for rumination ].
isn't this the kind of thing that ought to be on the website for downloading?
]
i am subscribed to -advocacy.
rob
Julian Stacey wrote:
> Anyone know of a pre- ready presentation for Alternatives To Microsoft ?
>
> [ snip ]
From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 06:30:20 2006
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:25:09 +0100
From: "Jan Husar" <jan.husar@skosi.org>
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Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Anyone know of a pre ready presentation for Alternatives to
Microsoft?
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Hello Julian,
I can take a look of something which i used in past but is mostly
alternatives on workstation level for public administration (cos I'm
solving such issues in European Commisssion)
the use of open standards such as ODF and PDF/A which is the *MOST*
discussed issue within the European Union.
Workstation use of Linux and Server running BSD, explanation of why
apache foundation was and is so sucessfull and so on..
Hopefully I have it with me, if not You must wait until I come back
home to Slovakia and check my workstation at home.
Jan
ps: anyway, it's better to prepare something yourself and you can use
mine as inspiration (or copy/paste even:)
On 11/27/06, Julian Stacey <jhs@berklix.org> wrote:
> Anyone know of a pre- ready presentation for Alternatives To Microsoft ?
>
> I've been asked to give a presentation (in English) to a bunch of
> engineers in Munich end of Jan 2007. On the basis "A good engineer
> is a lazy engineer", I'm asking before I write my own.
>
> I am _Not_ inviting a long thread, to rehash old well worn opinions
> of PD src/ etc. It'd bore me silly to read, let alone respond ;-)
> & be very inefficient & achieve nothing useful to me. I have decades
> of experience as an engineer & with Unix/BSD & have a BSD group
> here to back me up with ideas & criticism verbally & localy, faster,
> more efficient than typing etc :-)
>
> What I don't have, but seek is a set of beamer slides I could
> leverage from to save me time. (BTW I could equally leverage from
> German or perhaps French slides if existant). I could also leverage
> from a linux based slide set prob faster than starting from scratch,
> or at least for inspiration.
>
> Anyone know of a similar presention pre-exisiting, Re. Unix that I
> could leverage from (& give credit to) ? Of course if I have to
> write my own, I'll make mine public on web for others to leverage
> from).
>
> I'll probably use a beamer with /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint unless
> advised better ? (I dont fancy open office bloat to show
> .pps, & dont particularly want to learn how to prepare .pps slides,
> (though I'll probably show a few .pss) from a different topic to show that
> power point presentations are also showable under BSD.
>
> I've bcc'd this to Berkeley In Munich http://berklix.org/bim/ where
> Ernst has volunteered to help me, & others welcome too, but prob.
> best focus short discussion searching for URLs for now via list
> freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Then later, nearer date doubtless
> some local mail to BIM's list.
>
> URLs to presentations welcome. Thanks
>
> Julian
> --
> Julian Stacey. BSD Unix C Net Consultancy, Munich/Muenchen http://berklix.com
> Mail Ascii, not HTML. Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz.
> http://berklix.org/free-software
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
>
--
-----------------------------------
| Jan Husar
| Chairman
|
| http://www.skosi.org
--------------------------
| freedomeurope.blogspot.com
| GnuPG 1024D/DDB1C1AE
| http://www.opensource.org
From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 10:50:41 2006
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From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=)
To: mchauber@gmx.net
References: <200611250942.38410.mchauber@gmx.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:50:34 +0100
In-Reply-To: <200611250942.38410.mchauber@gmx.net> (Mike Hauber's message of
"Sat, 25 Nov 2006 09:42:37 -0500")
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Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS...
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Mike Hauber <mchauber@gmx.net> writes:
> I was just wondering what the general consensus was on the GPL, Linux in
> general, SCOs lawsuit, Sun's open sourcing, IBMs contributions to Linux,
> Novell's contributions, Novell's deal with MS and how this really affects
> SuSe (there's a lot of hype on that and I literally don't know what to
> believe at this point).
Why should we care?
The SCO lawsuits are doubly irrelevant: firstly because SCO is not
going to win, secondly because BSD is immune by virtue of the 1994
settlement with USL.
As for the Novell-MS deal, I don't see how it affects BSD at all.
DES
--=20
Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 19:14:07 2006
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Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS...
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On Tuesday 28 November 2006 07:08, Jan Husar proclaimed:
> On 11/28/06, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav <des@des.no> wrote:
> > Mike Hauber <mchauber@gmx.net> writes:
> > > I was just wondering what the general consensus was on the GPL, Linux
> > > in general, SCOs lawsuit, Sun's open sourcing, IBMs contributions to
> > > Linux, Novell's contributions, Novell's deal with MS and how this
> > > really affects SuSe (there's a lot of hype on that and I literally
> > > don't know what to believe at this point).
> >
> > Why should we care?
> >
> > The SCO lawsuits are doubly irrelevant: firstly because SCO is not
> > going to win, secondly because BSD is immune by virtue of the 1994
> > settlement with USL.
I don't think the USL settlement matters to SCO. After all, Linux is immun=
e=20
by virtue of the GPL (in addition to SCOs claims being fraudulent), but tha=
t=20
didn't stop SCO from making fools of themselves. It's not Darl and company=
=20
specifically that I'm worried about. It's other companies that can come=20
along and pull the same stunts. How long would it take before prospective=
=20
customers get weary of the idea of open source as a whole if litigation=20
claims (fraudulent as they may be) continue?
> >
> > As for the Novell-MS deal, I don't see how it affects BSD at all.
>
> You are right, there is no direct affect on BSD however software
> patents is in issue no matter if it's GPL or BSD mostly in United
> States, in EU we are still fighting the patent problematics.
>
> Today is voting in ITRE (Information, Technology, Research and Energy)
> committee within European Parliament about IPRED (Intelectual Property
> Rights Enforcment Directive) which basicly means, criminalization of
> abusing of patents, trademarks and copyright (e.g. sentece to jail,
> freeze of accounts and so on)
This was pretty much my concern as far as OSS goes. If SCO actually succee=
ded=20
with their claims (which I know they won't), or if other SCOs come along, I=
=20
don't think the only target would be the GPL. I see patent issues becoming=
a=20
real problem not just for the GPL side of things but the BSDs as well (my=20
stance, of course, is that it shouldn't because patents lately have been=20
blindly awarded and seemingly requested for the purpose of fraudulent=20
lawsuits). If companies are scrambling for patents in order to bring=20
litigation or to protect themselves from litigation via counter-suits, I=20
doubt that when the fingers start pointing, the GPLd or BSDd code would be=
=20
excluded... In fact, I tend to think they would be a preferred target just=
=20
because it's open source, and we are by far the biggest threat that=20
proprietary companies have.
I see this basically as a threat to everyone, not just the few it's startin=
g=20
out with. That's why I asked, and I hadn't really heard much at all from t=
he=20
BSD side of the aisle.
What if Sun pulls a SCO with their Java? If IBM pulls a SCO with their=20
contributions? If Novell pulls a SCO with their contributions? I would li=
ke=20
to think that their intentions are honest, but after SCO, and then MSs very=
=20
weird deal with Novell, who knows? (and by the way, is IBM working with th=
e=20
BSD community as well? I hadn't read anything on that, and would be=20
interested to know more if they are).
Although my preference is the BSD license, I'm very much a fan of OSS, whet=
her=20
it be licensed under the BSD or GPL, and I'm just concerned about whether o=
r=20
not this could escalate into a trend against OS code in general.
Appreciate your inputs. Thanks,
Mike
From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 20:23:00 2006
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 21:04:22 2006
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:01:01 +0100
From: "Jan Husar" <jan.husar@skosi.org>
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Cc: "FreeBSD, Advocacy" <freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS...
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I just found interesting reading about IPR in Europe from paid
managingIP magazine in google cache, it will disappear in few days...
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:QlEzYhnQW0cJ:www.managingip.com/%3FPage%3D10%26PUBID%3D34%26ISS%3D22798%26SID%3D659853%26TYPE%3D3
Jan
From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 22:03:28 2006
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:03:09 +0100
From: "Jan Husar" <jan.husar@skosi.org>
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Cc: "FreeBSD, Advocacy" <freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS...
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Press release of ITRE voting on IPRED2 directive from today.
http://freedomeurope.blogspot.com/2006/11/patents-out-business-conflicts-still.html
Jan
From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 22:12:12 2006
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From: Mike Hauber <mchauber@gmx.net>
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jan.husar@skosi.org
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:13:10 -0500
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Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS...
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On Tuesday 28 November 2006 15:21, Jan Husar proclaimed:
> On 11/28/06, Mike Hauber <mchauber@gmx.net> wrote:
> > On Tuesday 28 November 2006 07:08, Jan Husar proclaimed:
> > > On 11/28/06, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav <des@des.no> wrote:
> > > > Mike Hauber <mchauber@gmx.net> writes:
> > > > > I was just wondering what the general consensus was on the GPL,
> > > > > Linux in general, SCOs lawsuit, Sun's open sourcing, IBMs
> > > > > contributions to Linux, Novell's contributions, Novell's deal with
> > > > > MS and how this really affects SuSe (there's a lot of hype on that
> > > > > and I literally don't know what to believe at this point).
> > > >
> > > > Why should we care?
> > > >
> > > > The SCO lawsuits are doubly irrelevant: firstly because SCO is not
> > > > going to win, secondly because BSD is immune by virtue of the 1994
> > > > settlement with USL.
> >
> > I don't think the USL settlement matters to SCO. After all, Linux is
> > immune by virtue of the GPL (in addition to SCOs claims being
> > fraudulent), but that didn't stop SCO from making fools of themselves.=
=20
> > It's not Darl and company specifically that I'm worried about. It's
> > other companies that can come along and pull the same stunts. How long
> > would it take before prospective customers get weary of the idea of open
> > source as a whole if litigation claims (fraudulent as they may be)
> > continue?
>
> Well, GPL v2 isn't the security as it was before, when you counts
> software patents.
> That's why there is this "extremic" proposal for gpl version3, or
> better say some people found it extremic. If you look at US there is
> lot of extremic stuff going around, e.g.
> new companies (patent trolls) which have only reason to exist to
> create patents and sue everybody.
>
> > > > As for the Novell-MS deal, I don't see how it affects BSD at all.
> > >
> > > You are right, there is no direct affect on BSD however software
> > > patents is in issue no matter if it's GPL or BSD mostly in United
> > > States, in EU we are still fighting the patent problematics.
> > >
> > > Today is voting in ITRE (Information, Technology, Research and Energy)
> > > committee within European Parliament about IPRED (Intelectual Property
> > > Rights Enforcment Directive) which basicly means, criminalization of
> > > abusing of patents, trademarks and copyright (e.g. sentece to jail,
> > > freeze of accounts and so on)
> >
> > This was pretty much my concern as far as OSS goes. If SCO actually
> > succeeded with their claims (which I know they won't), or if other SCOs
> > come along, I don't think the only target would be the GPL. I see pate=
nt
> > issues becoming a real problem not just for the GPL side of things but
> > the BSDs as well (my stance, of course, is that it shouldn't because
> > patents lately have been blindly awarded and seemingly requested for the
> > purpose of fraudulent lawsuits). If companies are scrambling for paten=
ts
> > in order to bring litigation or to protect themselves from litigation v=
ia
> > counter-suits, I doubt that when the fingers start pointing, the GPLd or
> > BSDd code would be excluded... In fact, I tend to think they would be a
> > preferred target just because it's open source, and we are by far the
> > biggest threat that proprietary companies have.
>
> Patents is problem for propietary, non-propietary, freeware or
> opensource e.g. all the software out there.
>
> > I see this basically as a threat to everyone, not just the few it's
> > starting out with. That's why I asked, and I hadn't really heard much =
at
> > all from the BSD side of the aisle.
>
> Yes, the BSD community is kinda quiet also in Europe, I found that
> really negative.
>
> > What if Sun pulls a SCO with their Java? If IBM pulls a SCO with their
> > contributions? If Novell pulls a SCO with their contributions? I would
> > like to think that their intentions are honest, but after SCO, and then
> > MSs very weird deal with Novell, who knows? (and by the way, is IBM
> > working with the BSD community as well? I hadn't read anything on that,
> > and would be interested to know more if they are).
>
> This is just a speculation and really lame one ;/
>
> > Although my preference is the BSD license, I'm very much a fan of OSS,
> > whether it be licensed under the BSD or GPL, and I'm just concerned abo=
ut
> > whether or not this could escalate into a trend against OS code in
> > general.
> >
> > Appreciate your inputs. Thanks,
> >
> > Mike
>
> Current situation of the patents in EU or better say in Europe.
>
> 2005 - European Parliament rejected computer impemented invetitions
> directive (which means for 4 years the same or similliar directive
> can't come to vote)
> 2006 - European Parliament adopted a new directive EPLA (European
> Patent Litigation Agreement), which basicly means EPO (European Patent
> Office, which is outisde the democratic control of EU) will have their
> own courts and judges for the patent problematics and nobody can't
> tell them what to do, even if the EP (European Parliament) rejected
> CII (Computer Implemented Invetitions)
> 2006 - IPRED2, criminalization of patent, trademark and copyright abuse
> 2007 - Community Patent, backdoor for software patents and other nasty
> stuff (such as dna, nano, drug, research patents and so on)
>
>
> As you can see there are lot of problems around adopting patent
> "protection", right now the situation is bad, but can be worse. EPO is
> granting software patents even if they aren't aplicable in Europe,
> after EPLA will come to it's function or Community Patent based on
> London/Munich patent agreement we will have really similliar situation
> like the United States have now.
>
> Hows the patent problematics and law is in United states I have just
> conclusion and information from news paper. Is there someone dealing
> with it in US?
>
> Jan
Whoa. You seem to be far more legally inclined than I, so I'm not even goi=
ng=20
to pretend to know anything specific as far as what actions are being taken=
=20
by .gov here in the States. However, I do know that there are patents=20
popping up that the OSS communites are growing more and more concerned abou=
t. =20
One example: (link may wrap):
http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=3DPTO1&Sect2=3DHITOFF&d=3D=
PALL&p=3D1&u=3D%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=3D1&f=3DG&l=3D50&s1=3D7,14=
0,028.PN.&OS=3DPN/7,140,028&RS=3DPN/7,140,028
I provide the link, but I couldn't tell you much about the language of the=
=20
patent itself, except to reiterate whats already been said. This is a pate=
nt=20
for compiling code to run on different operating systems... If that really=
=20
is the case, then I don't think that it's just the GCC at risk.
There should be laws about claiming things like this. There is nothing uni=
que=20
about it, and most developers kits have something at least too similar for =
MS=20
to say, "This is our idea, and we would like to protect it." If it's uniqu=
e=20
to them, then fine. But if it's something that has been used by most=20
developers out there, it available to the public to use at will, it's metho=
ds=20
are commonly known, then the patent in no way, shape, or form should be=20
issued. In fact, I believe that companies who do this should have to pay=20
fines for even attempting it.
Mike
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From: Tim Clewlow <tim1timau@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS...
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--- Mike Hauber <mchauber@gmx.net> wrote:
> From: Mike Hauber <mchauber@gmx.net>
> To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org,
> jan.husar@skosi.org
> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:13:10 -0500
> CC:
> Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS...
>
> On Tuesday 28 November 2006 15:21, Jan Husar proclaimed:
> > On 11/28/06, Mike Hauber <mchauber@gmx.net> wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 28 November 2006 07:08, Jan Husar proclaimed:
> > > > On 11/28/06, Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> wrote:
> > > > > Mike Hauber <mchauber@gmx.net> writes:
> > > > > > I was just wondering what the general consensus was on the GPL,
> > > > > > Linux in general, SCOs lawsuit, Sun's open sourcing, IBMs
> > > > > > contributions to Linux, Novell's contributions, Novell's deal with
> > > > > > MS and how this really affects SuSe (there's a lot of hype on that
> > > > > > and I literally don't know what to believe at this point).
> > > > >
> > > > > Why should we care?
> > > > >
> > > > > The SCO lawsuits are doubly irrelevant: firstly because SCO is not
> > > > > going to win, secondly because BSD is immune by virtue of the 1994
> > > > > settlement with USL.
> > >
> > > I don't think the USL settlement matters to SCO. After all, Linux is
> > > immune by virtue of the GPL (in addition to SCOs claims being
> > > fraudulent), but that didn't stop SCO from making fools of themselves.
> > > It's not Darl and company specifically that I'm worried about. It's
> > > other companies that can come along and pull the same stunts. How long
> > > would it take before prospective customers get weary of the idea of open
> > > source as a whole if litigation claims (fraudulent as they may be)
> > > continue?
> >
> > Well, GPL v2 isn't the security as it was before, when you counts
> > software patents.
> > That's why there is this "extremic" proposal for gpl version3, or
> > better say some people found it extremic. If you look at US there is
> > lot of extremic stuff going around, e.g.
> > new companies (patent trolls) which have only reason to exist to
> > create patents and sue everybody.
> >
> > > > > As for the Novell-MS deal, I don't see how it affects BSD at all.
> > > >
> > > > You are right, there is no direct affect on BSD however software
> > > > patents is in issue no matter if it's GPL or BSD mostly in United
> > > > States, in EU we are still fighting the patent problematics.
> > > >
> > > > Today is voting in ITRE (Information, Technology, Research and Energy)
> > > > committee within European Parliament about IPRED (Intelectual Property
> > > > Rights Enforcment Directive) which basicly means, criminalization of
> > > > abusing of patents, trademarks and copyright (e.g. sentece to jail,
> > > > freeze of accounts and so on)
> > >
> > > This was pretty much my concern as far as OSS goes. If SCO actually
> > > succeeded with their claims (which I know they won't), or if other SCOs
> > > come along, I don't think the only target would be the GPL. I see patent
> > > issues becoming a real problem not just for the GPL side of things but
> > > the BSDs as well (my stance, of course, is that it shouldn't because
> > > patents lately have been blindly awarded and seemingly requested for the
> > > purpose of fraudulent lawsuits). If companies are scrambling for patents
> > > in order to bring litigation or to protect themselves from litigation via
> > > counter-suits, I doubt that when the fingers start pointing, the GPLd or
> > > BSDd code would be excluded... In fact, I tend to think they would be a
> > > preferred target just because it's open source, and we are by far the
> > > biggest threat that proprietary companies have.
> >
> > Patents is problem for propietary, non-propietary, freeware or
> > opensource e.g. all the software out there.
> >
> > > I see this basically as a threat to everyone, not just the few it's
> > > starting out with. That's why I asked, and I hadn't really heard much at
> > > all from the BSD side of the aisle.
> >
> > Yes, the BSD community is kinda quiet also in Europe, I found that
> > really negative.
> >
> > > What if Sun pulls a SCO with their Java? If IBM pulls a SCO with their
> > > contributions? If Novell pulls a SCO with their contributions? I would
> > > like to think that their intentions are honest, but after SCO, and then
> > > MSs very weird deal with Novell, who knows? (and by the way, is IBM
> > > working with the BSD community as well? I hadn't read anything on that,
> > > and would be interested to know more if they are).
> >
> > This is just a speculation and really lame one ;/
> >
> > > Although my preference is the BSD license, I'm very much a fan of OSS,
> > > whether it be licensed under the BSD or GPL, and I'm just concerned about
> > > whether or not this could escalate into a trend against OS code in
> > > general.
> > >
> > > Appreciate your inputs. Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mike
> >
> > Current situation of the patents in EU or better say in Europe.
> >
> > 2005 - European Parliament rejected computer impemented invetitions
> > directive (which means for 4 years the same or similliar directive
> > can't come to vote)
> > 2006 - European Parliament adopted a new directive EPLA (European
> > Patent Litigation Agreement), which basicly means EPO (European Patent
> > Office, which is outisde the democratic control of EU) will have their
> > own courts and judges for the patent problematics and nobody can't
> > tell them what to do, even if the EP (European Parliament) rejected
> > CII (Computer Implemented Invetitions)
> > 2006 - IPRED2, criminalization of patent, trademark and copyright abuse
> > 2007 - Community Patent, backdoor for software patents and other nasty
> > stuff (such as dna, nano, drug, research patents and so on)
> >
> >
> > As you can see there are lot of problems around adopting patent
> > "protection", right now the situation is bad, but can be worse. EPO is
> > granting software patents even if they aren't aplicable in Europe,
> > after EPLA will come to it's function or Community Patent based on
> > London/Munich patent agreement we will have really similliar situation
> > like the United States have now.
> >
> > Hows the patent problematics and law is in United states I have just
> > conclusion and information from news paper. Is there someone dealing
> > with it in US?
> >
> > Jan
>
> Whoa. You seem to be far more legally inclined than I, so I'm not even going
>
> to pretend to know anything specific as far as what actions are being taken
> by .gov here in the States. However, I do know that there are patents
> popping up that the OSS communites are growing more and more concerned about.
>
> One example: (link may wrap):
>
>
http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7,140,028.PN.&OS=PN/7,140,028&RS=PN/7,140,028
>
> I provide the link, but I couldn't tell you much about the language of the
> patent itself, except to reiterate whats already been said. This is a patent
>
> for compiling code to run on different operating systems... If that really
> is the case, then I don't think that it's just the GCC at risk.
>
> There should be laws about claiming things like this. There is nothing
> unique
> about it, and most developers kits have something at least too similar for MS
>
> to say, "This is our idea, and we would like to protect it." If it's unique
> to them, then fine. But if it's something that has been used by most
> developers out there, it available to the public to use at will, it's methods
>
> are commonly known, then the patent in no way, shape, or form should be
> issued. In fact, I believe that companies who do this should have to pay
> fines for even attempting it.
>
> Mike
Microsoft appear to be claiming that the idea of using one type of computer to
build an operating system for a different type of computer is their idea.
Unfortunately (for Microsoft) this practice has been known in the "public
domain" for decades. This claim would be laughable if it wasnt serious -
instead it is just pathetic.
Tim.
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Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS...
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From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 29 07:24:49 2006
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From: WizLayer <wizlayer@gmail.com>
To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org,
jan.husar@skosi.org
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:23:34 -0500
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Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS...
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On Tuesday 28 November 2006 20:21, Jan Husar proclaimed:
>> On 11/29/06, Tim Clewlow <tim1timau@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > From: Mike Hauber <mchauber@gmx.net>
> > > >
> > > > What if Sun pulls a SCO with their Java? If IBM pulls a SCO with
> > > > their contributions? If Novell pulls a SCO with their
> > > > contributions? I would like to think that their intentions are
> > > > honest, but after SCO, and then MSs very weird deal with Novell,
> > > > who knows? (and by the way, is IBM working with the BSD community
> > > > as well? I hadn't read anything on that, and would be interested
> > > > to know more if they are).
> > >
> > >This is just a speculation and really lame one ;/
> > >
BTW... It was not my intention to say IBM and Sun are going to turn around
and do MsBrides. My point was just how much can we trust companies that
contribute, when there _are_ MsBrides out there? Shouldn't there be some
type of written agreement stating that they agree not to pull any SCOs?
I'll keep my reservations for Novell, though. That was just too weird for my
taste (and apparently so for most GPLees).
> > Microsoft appear to be claiming that the idea of using one type of
> > computer to build an operating system for a different type of computer is
> > their idea. Unfortunately (for Microsoft) this practice has been known in
> > the "public domain" for decades. This claim would be laughable if it
> > wasnt serious - instead it is just pathetic.
> >
> > Tim.
> >
> You hited the target, but as you prolly know also double-click is
> patentable....
>
> ;(
>
> Jan
>
Something came up on CNET about the patent process being reviewed by the
Supreme Court. Now I don't look so legally dumb... Yeah right. :) Link
may wrap:
http://news.com.com/Supreme%2BCourt%2Bweighs%2Bobviousness%2Bof%2Bpatents/2100-1014_3-6138969.html?tag=nefd.lede
I don't know how old this is (the source doesn't include a date, either), but
at least it's being looked at:
http://www.point-of-law.com/report.asp?id=467&page=1
Us poor folk can't defend ourselves if our defense is going to cost us $2
million and up per claim... And what even makes it worse is that now,
there's OSS insurance companies. Gee... Just in case the open source
communities turn out to be a bunch of thieves, I better get me some
insurance. That's sickening. People can't even be transparently honest
these days without getting mud/fud thrown at them, and there are lions,
tigers, and bears out there who are actually willing to take advantage of the
FUD by ripping off their piggy banks while they're not looking? :) I'm
really not trying to rant, here. I'm just trying to figure out a way to be
productive about it.
Is this something that we should be shrugging off or is this something we need
to be openly fighting against? If it's something that we should be fighting,
then how to go about it? Or is this something we just have to wait out and
suffer the publicity blows until the FUDster's lights fade, and hope we won't
owe our inheritances to a bunch of lawyers in the process?
I found out from Groklaw that NYU is doing a study review of patents and
supposedly MS has agreed to be reviewed along with IBM and a few others.
There weren't any links provided, but that should be interesting.
Mike
From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 1 13:37:43 2006
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Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 09:37:40 -0400
From: "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@freebsd.org>
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Subject: BSDstats v5.0 Released (totally backwards compatible)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
I've just extended the bsdstats script to allow for *optional* reporting of
installed ports ... the only change for this is that its using 'nc' for
reporting of ports, since it would break GETs length limits ...
It reports in category, port and version of the port ...
Antony coded up 'proxy related' settings as well, so that nc *should* work
through a proxy ... he's planning on testing the code more on his servers in
the morning, but this is tested in a non-proxy setup ...
The code doesn't change any of the other tests, so nothing gets 'broken' is you
stick with the older v4.x clients ... its only if you wish to add to the ports
report is the upgrade required ...
- ----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
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