From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 18 23:49:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE83016A47A for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:49:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.195]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47C9B43D80 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:49:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so731191wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:49:06 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type; b=HE1a3uGZAjL0MG461na/N1hyfeZmBppbc/TYrzzmNLuFhfNhrVfQWIsK/XkxGt8aCl+wuEt0IWRcjK+sqC213snHb6MRx5qXiIutqe5Tijw/LzQXq3YqhAxVq46j4JQc8LqZLEBfyFgdwhp3wbbkfSYGfB/6hu1GK0c7/EIKLeM= Received: by 10.70.19.6 with SMTP id 6mr7532561wxs; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.111.17 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 16:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:49:06 -0400 From: "David Hoffman" To: hou-freebsd@houfug.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, wikien-l@wikipedia.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, ingrid@cityscope.net, freebsd-standards@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Subject: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 23:49:31 -0000 * *It appears the page at http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htmconstitutes a serious breach of copyright. The article, which was originally written and posted to the Internet by the owner of the account soup@arbornet.org, is falsely attributed to the Houston FUG, whose members maliciously removed all reference to its original creator. On a related note, the FUG seems to be part of an organized group to convince all States to adopt English as an official language, a bigoted and misguided policy. Plagiarism should not be tolerated. Thanks. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 00:01:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0432D16A47A for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:01:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thisdayislong@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.185]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655F143D48 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:01:53 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from thisdayislong@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l24so1064696nfc for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:01:52 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=c13QPttK5DEop9djCku7B1p6ZQ3zZ07npP2ivmMSrodHL62uw2+4CBuN97njJ727FElPCN21AV5bZqIk4y98ddGHvV2/En01rfpoH0xO3u6vpw3kev41YMp5aIfy3bB2sEypWnb43A3Fk9mqUIWJ23jVN61lNIvFbfE/GY3ldNM= Received: by 10.48.233.18 with SMTP id f18mr729104nfh; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.3.14 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:01:51 -0400 From: Brett To: "David Hoffman" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: Cc: hou-freebsd@houfug.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, wikien-l@wikipedia.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, ingrid@cityscope.net, freebsd-standards@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:01:55 -0000 I hope we can reach an agreement on this as soon as possible. J'esp=E8re qu'on puisse trouver un accord dans les plus brefs d=E9lais. On 6/18/06, David Hoffman wrote: > It appears the page at > http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm constitutes > a serious breach of copyright. The article, which was originally written > and posted to the Internet by the owner of the account soup@arbornet.org,= is > falsely attributed to the Houston FUG, whose members maliciously removed = all > reference to its original creator. On a related note, the FUG seems to b= e > part of an organized group to convince all States to adopt English as an > official language, a bigoted and misguided policy. > > Plagiarism should not be tolerated. > > Thanks. > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 00:41:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E923116A47A for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:41:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3BFB43D67 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:41:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so735428wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:41:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=p7AnDaef2YE673K4aqu0+zKWiFrtmdVoyRzl1Gv8Aw57OFqgOp9BdOUCe83w6T9bNiH2LxbZQ1uJaUrfrn54KNdUrbI3cRoRWKMuiCsbcaIM9pCxV9xcKpknRqaplSd30CcYSvjSt3CaDZ1S1P/lpMKc8G33dlLVq9qp5vlQJR8= Received: by 10.70.92.17 with SMTP id p17mr7609194wxb; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.111.17 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:41:43 -0400 From: "David Hoffman" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, thisdayislong In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:41:52 -0000 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David Hoffman Date: Jun 18, 2006 8:38 PM Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post To: Brett I think a formal apology should be issued by the infringers. Hasn't this gone on long enough? On 6/18/06, Brett < thisdayislong@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > I have not received a response in regards to this article, and it > still does not hold the proper references. I have posted a DMCA > takedown notice, which is available for viewing at > http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html. I urge the webmaster of the > infringing site to add the copyright references as soon as possible. > > Thank you. > > Bonjour =E0 tous, > Je n'ai pas encore re=E7u de r=E9ponse au sujet de cet article, qui ne > porte pas ses r=E9ferences =E9xig=E9es. J'ai affich=E9 un "DMCA takedown > notice" (en anglais seulement) sur mon site, que l'on peut voir au > http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html. Je demande cordialement au > webma=EEtre du site non-autoris=E9 d'ajouter les r=E9f=E9rences =E9xig=E9= es dans > les plus brefs d=E9lais. > > Merci. > > > On 6/18/06, David Hoffman wrote: > > It appears the page at > > http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm constitutes > > a serious breach of copyright. The article, which was originally > written > > and posted to the Internet by the owner of the account soup@arbornet.or= g, > is > > falsely attributed to the Houston FUG, whose members maliciously remove= d > all > > reference to its original creator. On a related note, the FUG seems to > be > > part of an organized group to convince all States to adopt English as a= n > > > official language, a bigoted and misguided policy. > > > > Plagiarism should not be tolerated. > > > > Thanks. > > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 00:44:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD52116A479; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:44:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ingrid@cityscope.net) Received: from ns1.cityscope.net (ns1.cityscope.net [66.151.76.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7279743D46; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:44:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ingrid@cityscope.net) Received: from ingrid (user-0cetm18.cable.mindspring.com [24.238.216.40]) by ns1.cityscope.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k5J0iP0V013858; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:44:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200606190044.k5J0iP0V013858@ns1.cityscope.net> From: "Ingrid Kast Fuller" To: "'David Hoffman'" , Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:44:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcaTMfbNYq6OCcMaSgCaI+LIlebbTwABTDmw In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0625-0, 06/19/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, wikien-l@wikipedia.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-standards@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Subject: RE: [Hou-freebsd] Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:44:23 -0000 If someone added it to the freebsd-config mailing list, they should not have mailed a copyritten piece on a mailing list for public use. This has been added to the bottom of the page since we are unsure of the originator: We have been given the email address of: soup@arbornet.org as the original copyright person. Unfortunately, we have no way of confirming this as yet. We are trying to locate WHO originally wrote this. We took this off the freebsd-config mailing list which is a public mailing list. It seems this David Hoffman is directly attacking our group. Because there are no references to HOUFUG being a part of an organized group to adopt English as the official language. HOUFUG does not have any political ties with anyone. We only have a FreeBSD mailing list to discuss FreeBSD issues. "On a related note, the FUG seems to be part of an organized group to convince all States to adopt English as an official language, a bigoted and misguided policy." I personally have a link to the US English organization on my PERSONAL home page of www.ingridfuller.com. This has nothing to do with HOUFUG or FreeBSD at all. What I believe in is my business and my right as a citizen of the United States. This is NOT a misguided or bigoted policy. We've been speaking English since Day 1 and the International Language is "ENGLISH". Ingrid Kast Fuller CityScope Net 713-477-6161 3910 Fairmont Parkway #264 Pasadena, TX 77504-3076 http://www.cityscope.net _____ From: hou-freebsd-admin@houfug.org [mailto:hou-freebsd-admin@houfug.org] On Behalf Of David Hoffman Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:49 PM To: hou-freebsd@houfug.org Cc: ingrid@cityscope.net; freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org; freebsd-standards@freebsd.org; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; wikien-l@wikipedia.org; wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Subject: [Hou-freebsd] Serious breach of copyright -- First post It appears the page at http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm constitutes a serious breach of copyright. The article, which was originally written and posted to the Internet by the owner of the account soup@arbornet.org, is falsely attributed to the Houston FUG, whose members maliciously removed all reference to its original creator. On a related note, the FUG seems to be part of an organized group to convince all States to adopt English as an official language, a bigoted and misguided policy. Plagiarism should not be tolerated. Thanks. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 00:45:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC5D916A474; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:45:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe@joeholden.co.uk) Received: from elise.stf.rewt.org.uk (elise.stf.rewt.org.uk [82.152.108.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0E843D48; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:45:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joe@joeholden.co.uk) Received: from [82.152.108.166] (im.a.raver.not.a.fucking.drug-addict.be [82.152.108.166]) (authenticated bits=0) by elise.stf.rewt.org.uk (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5J0irgH007597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:44:56 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from joe@joeholden.co.uk) Message-ID: <4495F37F.1050807@joeholden.co.uk> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:44:47 +0100 From: Joe Holden User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Hoffman References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 OpenPGP: id=13A6D1E7; url=http://www.joeholden.co.uk/pubkey.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig6C8284A013D3FD2EBF0DD16D" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=3.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on elise.stf.rewt.org.uk Cc: thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: joe@joeholden.co.uk List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:45:03 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig6C8284A013D3FD2EBF0DD16D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David Hoffman wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: David Hoffman > Date: Jun 18, 2006 8:38 PM > Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post > To: Brett > > I think a formal apology should be issued by the infringers. > > Hasn't this gone on long enough? > > > On 6/18/06, Brett < thisdayislong@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I have not received a response in regards to this article, and it >> still does not hold the proper references. I have posted a DMCA >> takedown notice, which is available for viewing at >> http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html. >> I urge the webmaster of the >> infringing site to add the copyright references as soon as possible. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Bonjour =E0 tous, >> Je n'ai pas encore re=E7u de r=E9ponse au sujet de cet article, qui ne= >> porte pas ses r=E9ferences =E9xig=E9es. J'ai affich=E9 un "DMCA taked= own >> notice" (en anglais seulement) sur mon site, que l'on peut voir au >> http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html. >> Je demande cordialement au >> webma=EEtre du site non-autoris=E9 d'ajouter les r=E9f=E9rences =E9xig= =E9es dans >> les plus brefs d=E9lais. >> >> Merci. >> >> >> On 6/18/06, David Hoffman wrote: >> > It appears the page at >> > http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm constitutes >> > a serious breach of copyright. The article, which was originally >> written >> > and posted to the Internet by the owner of the account >> soup@arbornet.org, >> is >> > falsely attributed to the Houston FUG, whose members maliciously >> removed >> all >> > reference to its original creator. On a related note, the FUG >> seems to >> be >> > part of an organized group to convince all States to adopt English >> as an >> >> > official language, a bigoted and misguided policy. >> > >> > Plagiarism should not be tolerated. >> > >> > Thanks. >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= > Sorry if im being naive, but what does this have to do with the official FreeBSD project? and even more so, these lists? Ta, Joe --------------enig6C8284A013D3FD2EBF0DD16D Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFElfOBdQJXshOm0ecRAnBFAKCA+C3PLODkLXQz3Ij+1LyofT/CKgCeOKYS WqpSxt5P7uOje3cA/suKjOQ= =MDWM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig6C8284A013D3FD2EBF0DD16D-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 00:50:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991BF16A474; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:50:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe@joeholden.co.uk) Received: from elise.stf.rewt.org.uk (elise.stf.rewt.org.uk [82.152.108.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291A243D53; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:50:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from joe@joeholden.co.uk) Received: from [82.152.108.166] (im.a.raver.not.a.fucking.drug-addict.be [82.152.108.166]) (authenticated bits=0) by elise.stf.rewt.org.uk (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5J0nwtH007850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:50:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from joe@joeholden.co.uk) Message-ID: <4495F4B6.8040608@joeholden.co.uk> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:49:58 +0100 From: Joe Holden User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: joe@joeholden.co.uk References: <4495F37F.1050807@joeholden.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4495F37F.1050807@joeholden.co.uk> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 OpenPGP: id=13A6D1E7; url=http://www.joeholden.co.uk/pubkey.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig9D1D2663CE94E0126B020D68" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=3.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on elise.stf.rewt.org.uk Cc: David Hoffman , thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: joe@joeholden.co.uk List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:50:13 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig9D1D2663CE94E0126B020D68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joe Holden wrote: > David Hoffman wrote: > =20 >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: David Hoffman >> Date: Jun 18, 2006 8:38 PM >> Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post >> To: Brett >> >> I think a formal apology should be issued by the infringers. >> >> Hasn't this gone on long enough? >> >> >> On 6/18/06, Brett < thisdayislong@gmail.com> wrote: >> =20 >>> Hello, >>> >>> I have not received a response in regards to this article, and it >>> still does not hold the proper references. I have posted a DMCA >>> takedown notice, which is available for viewing at >>> http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html. >>> I urge the webmaster of the >>> infringing site to add the copyright references as soon as possible. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> Bonjour =E0 tous, >>> Je n'ai pas encore re=E7u de r=E9ponse au sujet de cet article, qui n= e >>> porte pas ses r=E9ferences =E9xig=E9es. J'ai affich=E9 un "DMCA take= down >>> notice" (en anglais seulement) sur mon site, que l'on peut voir au >>> http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html. >>> Je demande cordialement au >>> webma=EEtre du site non-autoris=E9 d'ajouter les r=E9f=E9rences =E9xi= g=E9es dans >>> les plus brefs d=E9lais. >>> >>> Merci. >>> >>> >>> On 6/18/06, David Hoffman wrote: >>> =20 >>>> It appears the page at >>>> http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm constitutes >>>> a serious breach of copyright. The article, which was originally >>>> =20 >>> written >>> =20 >>>> and posted to the Internet by the owner of the account >>>> =20 >>> soup@arbornet.org, >>> is >>> =20 >>>> falsely attributed to the Houston FUG, whose members maliciously >>>> =20 >>> removed >>> all >>> =20 >>>> reference to its original creator. On a related note, the FUG >>>> =20 >>> seems to >>> be >>> =20 >>>> part of an organized group to convince all States to adopt English >>>> =20 >>> as an >>> >>> =20 >>>> official language, a bigoted and misguided policy. >>>> >>>> Plagiarism should not be tolerated. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " >> >> =20 > Sorry if im being naive, but what does this have to do with the officia= l > FreeBSD project? and even more so, these lists? > > Ta, > Joe > > =20 Ignore that, sorry. --------------enig9D1D2663CE94E0126B020D68 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFElfS2dQJXshOm0ecRAqn8AJ9JLGtds6A1HhIUFaBeweaXY7RnfgCeKkl7 /+4vo+TYGYOwTlLB3StNFoQ= =nW3q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig9D1D2663CE94E0126B020D68-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 00:54:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE14816A47D; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:54:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ingrid@cityscope.net) Received: from ns1.cityscope.net (cityscope.net [66.151.76.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3161843D48; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:54:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ingrid@cityscope.net) Received: from ingrid (user-0cetm18.cable.mindspring.com [24.238.216.40]) by ns1.cityscope.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k5J0sm0V014234; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:54:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200606190054.k5J0sm0V014234@ns1.cityscope.net> From: "Ingrid Kast Fuller" To: "'David Hoffman'" , , , , "'thisdayislong'" Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:54:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcaTOSuR+jHf0CB8R9miBDhARB2A7gAATUtw In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0625-0, 06/19/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: RE: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:54:41 -0000 I responded to Bretts email 6 minutes after he informed me there maybe a problem with this article. He did NOT bother to tell me he was the owner of it. All I knew is someone named Brett at thisdayislong@gmail.com was letting me know there was a problem. I immediately went to arbornet.org to see where the original information was so I could find the originator's name and emailed him back, here is my reply. -----Original Message----- From: Ingrid Kast Fuller [mailto:ingrid@cityscope.net] Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:40 PM To: 'Brett' Subject: RE: concerned question I got the information from the freebsd-config mailing list which is referenced at the bottom. Do you know where the original information is on arbornet.org? I would not want to infringe on anyone's rights. Ingrid Kast Fuller CityScope Net 713-477-6161 3910 Fairmont Parkway #264 Pasadena, TX 77504-3076 http://www.cityscope.net -----Original Message----- From: Brett [mailto:thisdayislong@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:34 PM To: ingrid@cityscope.net Subject: concerned question Hi. It has come to my attention that you have an article, located at http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm that is hosted on your fine site and yet is not referenced. It holds a copyright reference for houfug, who did not write the article. Please attribute the work to soup@arbornet.org . Thank you, A concerned citizen From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 00:55:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14EF216A484 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:55:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.207]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AABE43D66 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:55:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so736441wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:55:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=Vr9SNfYMpkGF/M9pG13zb84346OaGAG2IVYaSKzxbD5zqBBwjkgJDNfsQJDdPrYnnVs4O9wkz5y9y8FTJ+YfeEnQ4dJJINXZUsLdvSpqlRgRKgXV/gyvFWsNjf1V0eeplSIEEc1dK91WutjuR/0EHCkrLWTXdIuFd384DC2SEoU= Received: by 10.70.46.2 with SMTP id t2mr6327347wxt; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.111.17 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:54:59 -0400 From: "David Hoffman" To: "Ingrid Kast Fuller" In-Reply-To: <200606190044.k5J0iP0V013858@ns1.cityscope.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200606190044.k5J0iP0V013858@ns1.cityscope.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Hou-freebsd] Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 00:55:12 -0000 On 6/18/06, Ingrid Kast Fuller wrote: > > If someone added it to the freebsd-config mailing list, they should not > have mailed a copyritten piece on a mailing list for public use. > This has been added to the bottom of the page since we are unsure of the > originator: > Things can be distributed on public mailing lists while still retaining their copyright. soup@arbornet.org did nothing to void his exclusive rights to the work in question. *We have been given the email address of: soup@arbornet.org as the original > copyright person. Unfortunately, we have no way of confirming this as yet. > We are trying to locate WHO originally wrote this. We took this off the > freebsd-config mailing list which is a public mailing list.* > You've been provided both with an archive of initial publication including soup@arbornet.org's address as the author, as well as a URL to a DMCA takedown notice hosted in his webspace. This is sufficient. *It seems this David Hoffman is directly attacking our group. Because there > are no references to HOUFUG being a part of an organized group to adopt > English as the official language. HOUFUG does not have any political ties > with anyone. We only have a FreeBSD mailing list to discuss FreeBSD issues. > * > I'm not directly attacking your group. If you're not political, and I'm arguing against something political, how could I possibly be 'attacking' your group? "On a related note, the FUG seems to be part of an organized group to > convince all States to adopt English as an official language, a bigoted and > misguided policy." > > I personally have a link to the US English organization on my PERSONAL > home page of www.ingridfuller.com. This has nothing to do with HOUFUG or > FreeBSD at all. What I believe in is my business and my right as a citizen > of the United States. This is NOT a misguided or bigoted policy. We've > been speaking English since Day 1 and the International Language is > "ENGLISH". > You certainly have a right to be misguided and bigoted. Americans have spoken English since 'Day 1', but they've also spoken several other languages since that time, and today speak even more. The lingua franca of the world today may be English, but it doesn't follow from that that it should be the official language of all states. *Ingrid Kast Fuller > **CityScope Net 713-477-6161 > 3910 Fairmont Parkway #264 > Pasadena, TX 77504-3076 > **http://www.cityscope.net* > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hou-freebsd-admin@houfug.org [mailto:hou-freebsd-admin@houfug.org] > *On Behalf Of *David Hoffman > *Sent:* Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:49 PM > *To:* hou-freebsd@houfug.org > *Cc:* ingrid@cityscope.net; freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org; > freebsd-standards@freebsd.org; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; wikien-l@wikipedia.org; wikitech-l@wikimedia.org > *Subject:* [Hou-freebsd] Serious breach of copyright -- First post > > **It appears the page at http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htmconstitutes a serious breach of copyright. The article, which was > originally written and posted to the Internet by the owner of the account > soup@arbornet.org, is falsely attributed to the Houston FUG, whose members > maliciously removed all reference to its original creator. On a related > note, the FUG seems to be part of an organized group to convince all States > to adopt English as an official language, a bigoted and misguided policy. > > Plagiarism should not be tolerated. > > Thanks. > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 01:01:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7D8A16A4C7 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:01:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thisdayislong@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB47843D68 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:00:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from thisdayislong@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id o63so1052671nfa for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:00:55 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=iWl42MJF/NKe1lBLYMX9LcrjaTtgo+s0eM9LJIlyQE3xnaNRAaaipJApwil9axrXKCD3y0K9KEmY08SeKOv6RQ58YwWmSVRL4HXwcP7WwgHRnWY/UNAcfTsc7E/gg9SsTuHfsWk4ITNcQ9YJCqaYnjDzVvlHAGggttN5bRnlVKU= Received: by 10.49.15.8 with SMTP id s8mr4453127nfi; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.3.14 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:00:55 -0400 From: Brett To: "Ingrid Kast Fuller" In-Reply-To: <200606190054.k5J0sm0V014234@ns1.cityscope.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200606190054.k5J0sm0V014234@ns1.cityscope.net> Cc: David Hoffman , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:01:03 -0000 Hello I hope the DMCA copyright notice, found at http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html , clears up any confusion. thank you! On 6/18/06, Ingrid Kast Fuller wrote: > I responded to Bretts email 6 minutes after he informed me there maybe a > problem with this article. He did NOT bother to tell me he was the owner of > it. All I knew is someone named Brett at thisdayislong@gmail.com was > letting me know there was a problem. I immediately went to arbornet.org to > see where the original information was so I could find the originator's name > and emailed him back, here is my reply. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ingrid Kast Fuller [mailto:ingrid@cityscope.net] > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:40 PM > To: 'Brett' > Subject: RE: concerned question > > I got the information from the freebsd-config mailing list which is > referenced at the bottom. > Do you know where the original information is on arbornet.org? I would not > want to infringe on anyone's rights. > > > Ingrid Kast Fuller > CityScope Net 713-477-6161 > 3910 Fairmont Parkway #264 > Pasadena, TX 77504-3076 > http://www.cityscope.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett [mailto:thisdayislong@gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:34 PM > To: ingrid@cityscope.net > Subject: concerned question > > Hi. > > It has come to my attention that you have an article, located at > http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm > that is hosted on your fine site and yet is not referenced. It holds a > copyright reference for houfug, who did not write the article. > Please attribute the work to soup@arbornet.org . > > Thank you, > A concerned citizen > > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 01:05:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84B3616A47E for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:05:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1558D43D80 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:05:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so737288wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:05:37 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=PKFCAkZpis4LwewoenlXm6HY/mi7rFec0NAaZuqBCrPZgvvzv1xysl7OgPh24SQ9ha/vpZp9FwCARxCNdTPPyp8B9auAmPq3Q/pX3703ZlJbjkiJAbcdqOlTc+Vv49Urle9rLsX0ZYIiCgTVBMxzefVLRwccszuNRrEV5ZD/Wv0= Received: by 10.70.17.12 with SMTP id 12mr7599529wxq; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.111.17 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:05:37 -0400 From: "David Hoffman" To: Brett In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200606190054.k5J0sm0V014234@ns1.cityscope.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Ingrid Kast Fuller , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:05:58 -0000 It'll certainly be less confusing that what HouFUG is publishing. They've now noted on their site that it was written by you. However, they STILL claim they own the copyright. Have you waived any of your exclusive rights to the work? On 6/18/06, Brett wrote: > > Hello > > I hope the DMCA copyright notice, found at > http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html , clears up any confusion. > > thank you! > On 6/18/06, Ingrid Kast Fuller wrote: > > I responded to Bretts email 6 minutes after he informed me there maybe a > > problem with this article. He did NOT bother to tell me he was the > owner of > > it. All I knew is someone named Brett at thisdayislong@gmail.com was > > letting me know there was a problem. I immediately went to arbornet.orgto > > see where the original information was so I could find the originator's > name > > and emailed him back, here is my reply. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ingrid Kast Fuller [mailto:ingrid@cityscope.net] > > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:40 PM > > To: 'Brett' > > Subject: RE: concerned question > > > > I got the information from the freebsd-config mailing list which is > > referenced at the bottom. > > Do you know where the original information is on arbornet.org? I would > not > > want to infringe on anyone's rights. > > > > > > Ingrid Kast Fuller > > CityScope Net 713-477-6161 > > 3910 Fairmont Parkway #264 > > Pasadena, TX 77504-3076 > > http://www.cityscope.net > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brett [mailto:thisdayislong@gmail.com] > > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:34 PM > > To: ingrid@cityscope.net > > Subject: concerned question > > > > Hi. > > > > It has come to my attention that you have an article, located at > > http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm > > that is hosted on your fine site and yet is not referenced. It holds a > > copyright reference for houfug, who did not write the article. > > Please attribute the work to soup@arbornet.org . > > > > Thank you, > > A concerned citizen > > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 01:11:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A081B16A47A for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:11:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dennisolvany@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.227]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D13943D73 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:11:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dennisolvany@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i34so927742wra for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:11:09 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=oLbZPJLWsB6gQhCdoyIuV4R6/PSrfCx/SzEaIEfgy8BJtHjllBAEJEj67RndEViWpnwOvkoki6jIDG0C8AMgNktqidbRJVNd77j/poltR0j723hC5TYTm5QfxnHHCDHS1FrGLI1eXVbddg3AQBGlIOd9eDadvYnGirJ5pX7SNyg= Received: by 10.54.79.17 with SMTP id c17mr5429357wrb; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?195.16.87.34? ( [195.16.87.34]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 44sm3789811wri.2006.06.18.18.10.59; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:10:57 -0500 From: Dennis Olvany User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060211) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Hoffman References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ingrid@cityscope.net, thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:11:11 -0000 I had a look at http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm and I am afraid that you will find this article is not eligible for copyright. It constitutes neither an artistic nor literary work. The article conveys only facts and facts are not eligible for copyright. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 01:12:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E27716A47A for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:12:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.206]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C90643D45 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:12:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so737853wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:12:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=kPtcKy2XdlSsKAtEJeWgangks4RCFQYAbL5VMbA/KKgIS6ift1B2yFLp3wleFdPDq5Tye71BcdZVmFFqN75TTrSPFE/ISL2Tv0Yq6CVLGlvbH8R2x/ZbppmPXgYc/FrZkKiJvK5n6ZaOjTOjSIzE5C+pVZalgZYpjzWv7IQs9Io= Received: by 10.70.132.14 with SMTP id f14mr7657380wxd; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.111.17 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:12:22 -0400 From: "David Hoffman" To: Brett In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200606190054.k5J0sm0V014234@ns1.cityscope.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Ingrid Kast Fuller , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:12:25 -0000 Update: their website now attributes copyright to both HouFUG AND Brett. This is despite the fact that Brett seems to be the sole owner of the work. I'm not sure why this community feels it can disregard rights to intellectual property, especially when it produces so much on its OWN to be proud of. Why steal other people's stuff? On 6/18/06, David Hoffman wrote: > > It'll certainly be less confusing that what HouFUG is publishing. They've > now noted on their site that it was written by you. However, they STILL > claim they own the copyright. Have you waived any of your exclusive rights > to the work? > > On 6/18/06, Brett wrote: > > > Hello > > > > I hope the DMCA copyright notice, found at > > http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html, clears up any confusion. > > > > thank you! > > On 6/18/06, Ingrid Kast Fuller < ingrid@cityscope.net> wrote: > > > I responded to Bretts email 6 minutes after he informed me there maybe > > a > > > problem with this article. He did NOT bother to tell me he was the > > owner of > > > it. All I knew is someone named Brett at thisdayislong@gmail.com was > > > letting me know there was a problem. I immediately went to > > arbornet.org to > > > see where the original information was so I could find the > > originator's name > > > and emailed him back, here is my reply. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ingrid Kast Fuller [mailto: ingrid@cityscope.net] > > > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:40 PM > > > To: 'Brett' > > > Subject: RE: concerned question > > > > > > I got the information from the freebsd-config mailing list which is > > > referenced at the bottom. > > > Do you know where the original information is on arbornet.org? I > > would not > > > want to infringe on anyone's rights. > > > > > > > > > Ingrid Kast Fuller > > > CityScope Net 713-477-6161 > > > 3910 Fairmont Parkway #264 > > > Pasadena, TX 77504-3076 > > > http://www.cityscope.net > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Brett [mailto:thisdayislong@gmail.com] > > > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:34 PM > > > To: ingrid@cityscope.net > > > Subject: concerned question > > > > > > Hi. > > > > > > It has come to my attention that you have an article, located at > > > http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm > > > that is hosted on your fine site and yet is not referenced. It holds > > a > > > copyright reference for houfug, who did not write the article. > > > Please attribute the work to soup@arbornet.org . > > > > > > Thank you, > > > A concerned citizen > > > > > > > > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 01:19:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1B016A47D for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:19:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.192]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6246A43D4C for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:19:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so738420wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:19:42 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=nOXqSsGDqUAqHfrS7qWzRt1Vl7H9l4z5cINgtwi8jsb2OK+VG7UsHJo4cVtj8fLwbOd2LUuoS5qHVbF4ggcBZLohRiR4+eOiuqG6FmxApu7aQp9jMISaCWQ4+c6GLCbDCpF4t8GLaB1mjWKuOrZ48btiAKMcu60DlSfkHhqRve0= Received: by 10.70.19.6 with SMTP id 6mr7623841wxs; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.111.17 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:19:39 -0400 From: "David Hoffman" To: "Dennis Olvany" In-Reply-To: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: ingrid@cityscope.net, thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:19:45 -0000 On 6/18/06, Dennis Olvany wrote: > > I had a look at http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm and I am > afraid that you will find this article is not eligible for copyright. It > constitutes neither an artistic nor literary work. The article conveys > only facts and facts are not eligible for copyright. > I'm afraid you're incorrect. The work in question is indeed copyrightable under the Berne Convention, which many countries have ratified, including the United States, where the content is hosted. The United States, as well as many other countries, also have national laws which allow this work to be copyrighted. It's also important to note that HouFUG clearly believes the work can be copyrighted, since they have included a copyright notice on the page. This implies tremendous bad faith: regardless of whether or not the article is copyrightable (it is), they have removed any reference to the true owner and have claimed it as their own. This is not acceptable behaviour. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 01:26:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D32E116A479; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:26:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from pittgoth.com (ns1.pittgoth.com [216.38.206.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7906843D45; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:26:03 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (ip70-177-190-239.dc.dc.cox.net [70.177.190.239]) (authenticated bits=0) by pittgoth.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5J1U8Kt007831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:30:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:25:46 -0400 From: Tom Rhodes To: "Ingrid Kast Fuller" Message-Id: <20060618212546.5631373f.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <200606190044.k5J0iP0V013858@ns1.cityscope.net> References: <200606190044.k5J0iP0V013858@ns1.cityscope.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 1.0.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: zionicman@gmail.com, hou-freebsd@houfug.org, freebsd-user-groups@FreeBSD.org, wikien-l@wikipedia.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-standards@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Hou-freebsd] Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:26:04 -0000 On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:44:02 -0500 "Ingrid Kast Fuller" wrote: > If someone added it to the freebsd-config mailing list, they should not have > mailed a copyritten piece on a mailing list for public use. > This has been added to the bottom of the page since we are unsure of the > originator: Viewing the page, it does seem to have the email address listed, with a name. Now, I haven't checked the name, mainly because I have not emailed this person; however, regardless of the issues discussed, the FreeBSD doesn't control user groups. The so called issue should be taken up with the user group in question. -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 01:37:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41B3C16A474; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:37:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ingrid@cityscope.net) Received: from ns1.cityscope.net (mail.cityscope.net [66.151.76.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1BC643D45; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:37:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ingrid@cityscope.net) Received: from ingrid (user-0cetm18.cable.mindspring.com [24.238.216.40]) by ns1.cityscope.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k5J1bX0V015840; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:37:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200606190137.k5J1bX0V015840@ns1.cityscope.net> From: "Ingrid Kast Fuller" To: "'David Hoffman'" , "'Dennis Olvany'" Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:37:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcaTPneS36sEkKQpRuaO7GRhEmZKIwAAekuQ In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0625-0, 06/19/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: 'thisdayislong' , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:37:24 -0000 Your quote below is incorrect, we have been in contact with the owner of the article and he has approved the uploaded version which includes his name at the bottom." The HOUFUG website has a copyright of it's own for the design, images and other content. We have referenced the owner of this article as approved by Brett Soupman. At this point we are done with this copyright issue, it has been resolved ammicably with the owner. "....they have removed any reference to the true owner and have claimed it as their own." Ingrid Kast Fuller CityScope Net 713-477-6161 3910 Fairmont Parkway #264 Pasadena, TX 77504-3076 http://www.cityscope.net _____ From: David Hoffman [mailto:zionicman@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:20 PM To: Dennis Olvany Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org; thisdayislong; ingrid@cityscope.net Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post On 6/18/06, Dennis Olvany wrote: I had a look at http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm and I am afraid that you will find this article is not eligible for copyright. It constitutes neither an artistic nor literary work. The article conveys only facts and facts are not eligible for copyright. I'm afraid you're incorrect. The work in question is indeed copyrightable under the Berne Convention, which many countries have ratified, including the United States, where the content is hosted. The United States, as well as many other countries, also have national laws which allow this work to be copyrighted. It's also important to note that HouFUG clearly believes the work can be copyrighted, since they have included a copyright notice on the page. This implies tremendous bad faith: regardless of whether or not the article is copyrightable (it is), they have removed any reference to the true owner and have claimed it as their own. This is not acceptable behaviour. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 01:54:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB2B816A47C for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:54:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.192]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 927CC43D62 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:54:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so741545wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:54:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=sb9BDMuQbUl+5IGnka4N18ue6edqt9Me4h9v4/KIpQ6ppuRINuNUsKAaetqWPIwSQL8N6e/n/eW2256nnEvmp7MXqD6dkoDtSrO/GkliuJO/ftvO6AOVuRej7jVAytx4Lf1FQKor5ftA6iXNm3BBtPeg3nbmmNZivZ+8HoCEjvM= Received: by 10.70.8.15 with SMTP id 15mr7701714wxh; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.111.17 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:54:35 -0400 From: "David Hoffman" To: "Ingrid Kast Fuller" In-Reply-To: <200606190137.k5J1bX0V015840@ns1.cityscope.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200606190137.k5J1bX0V015840@ns1.cityscope.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Dennis Olvany , thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:54:46 -0000 You're correct that the quote is incorrect; it's based on an older version of the page. However, most of what you wrote is incorrect. Are you seriously trying to tell us that the author's name is 'Brett Soupman'? That seems like a pseudonym at best. It's hardly clear he's given you permission to republish the work, let alone to claim it as your own. Moreover, due to the copyright notice attributing the page to HOUFUG, exactly who owns the article is ambiguous at best. Sure, Brett owns it, but does HOUFUG own it as well? This isn't at all clear. Additionally, the page in question uses other copyrighted works, including the logos of FreeBSD and Google, without properly attributing them, unless HOUFUG is in some way officially partnered with Google. Finally, you haven't apologized for your egregious, illegal, and tortious act of bad faith, that is, republishing the article without permission of the owner and claiming it was owned by HOULUG. According to archive.org's Wayback Machine, the article has been posted in that extremely misleading way for at least two years. Doesn't the owner deserve a public apology and a clarification posted on that page? It seems to be the least you could do. I'm afraid you think you can get away with this because you think soup's Francophile tendencies make him a target, as per your 'English only' policy. On 6/18/06, Ingrid Kast Fuller wrote: > > Your quote below is incorrect, we have been in contact with the owner of > the article and he has approved the uploaded version which includes his name > at the bottom." > The HOUFUG website has a copyright of it's own for the design, images and > other content. We have referenced the owner of this article as approved by > Brett Soupman. At this point we are done with this copyright issue, it has > been resolved ammicably with the owner. > > "....they have removed any reference to the true owner and have claimed it > as their own." > > > *Ingrid Kast Fuller > **CityScope Net 713-477-6161 > 3910 Fairmont Parkway #264 > Pasadena, TX 77504-3076 > **http://www.cityscope.net* > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* David Hoffman [mailto:zionicman@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:20 PM > *To:* Dennis Olvany > *Cc:* freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; > freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org; thisdayislong; ingrid@cityscope.net > > *Subject:* Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post > > On 6/18/06, Dennis Olvany wrote: > > > > I had a look at http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm and I am > > afraid that you will find this article is not eligible for copyright. It > > constitutes neither an artistic nor literary work. The article conveys > > only facts and facts are not eligible for copyright. > > > > > I'm afraid you're incorrect. The work in question is indeed copyrightable > under the Berne Convention, which many countries have ratified, including > the United States, where the content is hosted. The United States, as well > as many other countries, also have national laws which allow this work to be > copyrighted. > > It's also important to note that HouFUG clearly believes the work can be > copyrighted, since they have included a copyright notice on the page. This > implies tremendous bad faith: regardless of whether or not the article is > copyrightable (it is), they have removed any reference to the true owner and > have claimed it as their own. > > This is not acceptable behaviour. > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 02:11:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BACAB16A47A for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:11:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dennisolvany@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77EA243D48 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:11:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dennisolvany@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i23so931905wra for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:11:16 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=sO+pqnqDKSjqg/vTe8J5uYBXQWDGlaNFhf/uwMtVWxpYzbqYargZ9pKwNbl+gh0Ej4Y96YlrzEft6dznoI1QUgYPr3QaAjvRXsIG1/XYtdZoJXGvpvE7lRe83ziI3Bjb7hGzDlB9mBlSqlsLcCBfqJFPXm7P7G89smLp1siHioA= Received: by 10.54.91.3 with SMTP id o3mr5474118wrb; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?195.16.87.34? ( [195.16.87.34]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 7sm703135wrl.2006.06.18.19.11.13; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <449607BF.1050905@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:11:11 -0500 From: Dennis Olvany User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060211) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Hoffman References: <200606190054.k5J0sm0V014234@ns1.cityscope.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Ingrid Kast Fuller , Brett , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:11:18 -0000 David Hoffman wrote: > Update: their website now attributes copyright to both HouFUG AND Brett. > This is despite the fact that Brett seems to be the sole owner of the work. > I'm not sure why this community feels it can disregard rights to > intellectual property, especially when it produces so much on its OWN to be > proud of. Why steal other people's stuff? howto add 1. two 2. plus two 3. equals four (c) David Hoffman From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 02:39:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7384D16A474 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:39:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.197]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D728B43D4C for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:39:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so745735wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:39:57 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=fwjzIXGGw/XynDagvKwZ2XI/Gh0uTavOabDq38RYOq6M2sQfa13DR9jEUUgiYT/nFhfIzwifOpbRpJ5YCMe9ZObM6xuy2p3/SRdjnfy2BxLjHmwXAx9jhZyG8kdFXbZ7GVe0HqmI+Ez+ONIZcw4PhMo0/qLM9Qm0MUojOiqHhmw= Received: by 10.70.83.20 with SMTP id g20mr7700064wxb; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.111.17 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:39:57 -0400 From: "David Hoffman" To: "Ingrid Kast Fuller" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> <449608A8.3010101@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Dennis Olvany , thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:39:59 -0000 On 6/18/06, David Hoffman wrote: > > On 6/18/06, Dennis Olvany wrote: > > > >> ...facts are not eligible for copyright. > > > > > I'm afraid you're incorrect. The work in question is indeed > > copyrightable > > > under the Berne Convention, which many countries have ratified, > > including > > > the United States, where the content is hosted. The United States, as > > well > > > as many other countries, also have national laws which allow this work > > > to be > > > copyrighted. > > > > At best, the article may be considered a derivative work of the > > described software/hardware and therefore the intellectual property of > > the respective manufacturers. > > > > > First you say only 'literary or artistic' works, and not 'facts' (hint: > the article was more than just facts), are elligible for copyright, and now > you say that, not only are 'facts' elligible for copyright, but that they > hold such a strong copyright that works which refer to facts published > elsewhere are necessarily derivative and are not elligible for a seperate > copyright by the writer. Which is it? You can't have both. And, really, > you can't have either: there are a multitude of works that are 'derivative' > in the sense you describe, yet hold perfectly valid copyrights. Don't > believe me? Try hosting a bunch of O'Reilly books on a site hosted in a > country that respects copyright. > > Now, even if you're correct that Brett doesn't have a valid copyright > (which he does) and that unspecified entities unknown own the copyright to > the article (which they don't), we still have the same problem: FreeBSD > claiming to own something they don't, and not even attributing it to its > true authors. > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 02:40:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D7016A484 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:40:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.192]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4061B43D4C for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:40:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so745794wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:40:33 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=YnpAtIhyqMgxS/lZEKwU8ejyOexir8UjYBtfRVyug9MHRS00ldG4954qHqKo8WXQoNT+qjJ/lFB4F6ThanX/S/lfYEn3Ph2YIuOPByHXW4Pc6FNbQVhLBsvIH9OCEDdeLUjEySrDdhdYpCdM7eOVGdyVr2x2TDZruRHBOJOhTm8= Received: by 10.70.103.15 with SMTP id a15mr7695845wxc; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.111.17 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:40:33 -0400 From: "David Hoffman" To: "Dennis Olvany" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200606190054.k5J0sm0V014234@ns1.cityscope.net> <449607BF.1050905@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Ingrid Kast Fuller , thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:40:38 -0000 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David Hoffman Date: Jun 18, 2006 10:27 PM Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post To: Dennis Olvany While your mocking post is certainly intended to bolster your point, it instead bolsters mine. There are MANY books on mathematics that describe only facts yet hold perfectly valid copyrights. Please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright . On 6/18/06, Dennis Olvany wrote: > David Hoffman wrote: > > Update: their website now attributes copyright to both HouFUG AND > Brett. > > This is despite the fact that Brett seems to be the sole owner of the > work. > > I'm not sure why this community feels it can disregard rights to > > intellectual property, especially when it produces so much on its OWN to > be > > proud of. Why steal other people's stuff? > > howto add > > 1. two > 2. plus two > 3. equals four > > (c) David Hoffman > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 02:57:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1BD016A481 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:57:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail.matt.mcdonald@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.202]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84EBF43D6E for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:57:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mail.matt.mcdonald@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so747219wxd for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:57:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:in-reply-to:x-mimeole:thread-index; b=ez6K5tmK3tyFy0gV3DxIbHHBqbr+49PZiYgP64UAPKqPof/LXEMfqBLUv1wBm2WqflK3N2dR0OWXejE/OD2oEuBABXMcbQbO2b9svqNwkL3R6rzcLEVri0q9hFVt4JraTSrq1bQcEFjAvzoVVzW96A/2NGme2/+LqrGokXATvVk= Received: by 10.70.125.3 with SMTP id x3mr2370795wxc; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mattgrad ( [71.196.161.131]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id i17sm4873929wxd.2006.06.18.19.57.21; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:57:22 -0700 (PDT) From: To: "'Dennis Olvany'" Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:57:20 -0600 Message-ID: <001501c6934c$166d0980$0201a8c0@mattgrad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcaTShZwfenTZOjUQ+CaqvOO0iSOvQAALYYgAABATCA= Cc: 'Ingrid Kast Fuller' , 'thisdayislong' , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 02:57:34 -0000 I think the distinction here is that while the facts themselves are not open to copyright, the actual statement of them is. Therefore I can write a book explaining that "2 + 2 = 4, that is if you take two apples and two oranges and put them in a bushel, you have four pieces of fruit in the bushel" and copyright it. If you were to use this passage from that book then you infringe on my copyright, however if you simply state that 2 + 2 = 4 then you do not. Of course I understand that there are some branches of mathematics and philosophy that might argue that 2 + 2 = 4 is not fact... but I digress. (c) Matt McDonald -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of David Hoffman Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:41 PM To: Dennis Olvany Cc: Ingrid Kast Fuller; thisdayislong; freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David Hoffman Date: Jun 18, 2006 10:27 PM Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post To: Dennis Olvany While your mocking post is certainly intended to bolster your point, it instead bolsters mine. There are MANY books on mathematics that describe only facts yet hold perfectly valid copyrights. Please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright . On 6/18/06, Dennis Olvany wrote: > David Hoffman wrote: > > Update: their website now attributes copyright to both HouFUG AND > Brett. > > This is despite the fact that Brett seems to be the sole owner of the > work. > > I'm not sure why this community feels it can disregard rights to > > intellectual property, especially when it produces so much on its OWN to > be > > proud of. Why steal other people's stuff? > > howto add > > 1. two > 2. plus two > 3. equals four > > (c) David Hoffman > _______________________________________________ freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 03:58:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7196016A4C7 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:58:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dennisolvany@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39FD43D4C for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:58:39 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dennisolvany@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i23so943390wra for ; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:58:39 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=keSUEodghnf4FdaiaFeQMZjQ3UG9FSeKDbRzmIYyRGlb1+guau7T4XojIZwVAtoZoNvhBE2dS9Xi0/brRy4XuiI1yZ4lH7FexOGeCioGiNAt9vKCYBoysq/p89CsoFS5p54x4gL6dF07GdYr7OE+hgFAOqQEHG9Ym6kbBWfb/NQ= Received: by 10.54.98.5 with SMTP id v5mr5529417wrb; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?195.16.87.34? ( [195.16.87.34]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 11sm667018wrl.2006.06.18.20.58.35; Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <449620E9.1090203@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 22:58:33 -0500 From: Dennis Olvany User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060211) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Hoffman References: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> <449608A8.3010101@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Ingrid Kast Fuller , thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 03:58:41 -0000 David Hoffman wrote: > Now, even if you're correct that Brett doesn't have a valid > copyright (which he does) and that unspecified entities unknown own > the copyright to the article (which they don't), we still have the > same problem: FreeBSD claiming to own something they don't, and not > even attributing it to its true authors. Derivative work may be a bit of a stretch. A failed attempt at adopting your point of view that facts are actually copyrightable. Math books are descriptive and thus copyrightable, though the facts contained therein are not. The article in question is not at all descriptive. If it were, it would be a different story. It is a 100% factual procedure. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 09:40:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 737E716A474; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:40:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDFD343D49; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:40:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 728422087; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:40:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 633FC2086; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:40:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3EC5B33C8D; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:40:40 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: "David Hoffman" References: <200606190054.k5J0sm0V014234@ns1.cityscope.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:40:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: (David Hoffman's message of "Sun, 18 Jun 2006 21:05:37 -0400") Message-ID: <86bqspwkiv.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Ingrid Kast Fuller , Brett , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:40:44 -0000 "David Hoffman" writes: > It'll certainly be less confusing that what HouFUG is publishing. They've > now noted on their site that it was written by you. However, they STILL > claim they own the copyright. No, they claim a copyright for their site, which is perfectly valid - look up "compilation copyright" in your favorite search engine. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 09:58:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 575C816A47A; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:58:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC91A43D46; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:58:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 883D82087; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:57:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D8692086; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:57:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DD80F33C8D; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:57:56 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Dennis Olvany References: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 11:57:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> (Dennis Olvany's message of "Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:10:57 -0500") Message-ID: <867j3dwjq3.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: David Hoffman , freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, ingrid@cityscope.net, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:58:03 -0000 Dennis Olvany writes: > I had a look at http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm and I am > afraid that you will find this article is not eligible for copyright. It > constitutes neither an artistic nor literary work. The article conveys > only facts and facts are not eligible for copyright. You're on to something, but you didn't quite get it right. Copyright law does not care about artistic or literary qualities; and while plain facts are not copyrightable, as you point out, their expression certainly is. A Haynes workshop manual, for instance, is neither art nor literature, and it is full of facts, but it is definitely copyrightable. I can put up a web page describing how to change the starter motor on my brother's Citro=EBn CX (bitch of a job, I'll have you know), but I have to use my own words and photos, not those from my brother's Haynes manual. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 12:00:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF2D16A47B for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:00:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dennisolvany@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E680943D48 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:00:32 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dennisolvany@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i23so994583wra for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:00:32 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=AVQ1PBNJzwjH+EAb1kscmnUcB7pmS6kta0uqeZByifxBk/W28fJTKiUeQMOULt6ih1UtUBf36+1ZwFZT03t31IThSQCDfPVEwOvAt2MCmatq+PPgozGTvK1UWAPT+sz7cMRBiHVruyvTq/dfUvVM4WxIiJcO1dgnxm5Hcxn0Q2Y= Received: by 10.54.89.9 with SMTP id m9mr4364711wrb; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?195.16.87.34? ( [195.16.87.34]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 26sm6992453wrl.2006.06.19.05.00.28; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <449691D9.4020704@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:00:25 -0500 From: Dennis Olvany User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060211) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> <867j3dwjq3.fsf@xps.des.no> In-Reply-To: <867j3dwjq3.fsf@xps.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: David Hoffman , freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, ingrid@cityscope.net, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:00:34 -0000 >> facts are not eligible for copyright. > plain facts are not copyrightable, as you point out, their expression > certainly is. The concept of a fact obviously may not be copyrighted because it is merely a concept. Barring descriptive literary devices, the facts may be copied at will in their expressed form. A photo, being a descriptive device, is copyrightable. Considering the example of the Haynes manual, I can extract factual information --such as a starter change procedure-- from the manual word-for-word and use it. The hysteria of the original poster remains unjustified as he will find that the usage of the article in question falls squarely under the veil of fair use, which still does not infer the work is copyrightable. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 13:18:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2538216A47C for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:18:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 99C6E43D78 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:18:16 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 23442 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jun 2006 13:18:08 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=EFp2UVSdbYNbOUOeumO6CDmRd3JEPmsBvD1H7u+l6Lz3So+CCHLF8Riw0DWLqqto1DnoFufK9eMDk88FCRccU/2v2PmDgxEYti0MjtkrP4C1+EU09m2+9BNkLt3Ka0dRi3dfpPTHWVsvtRqRIZG9BaMdATyfZs9q8w/ffqECSuQ= ; Message-ID: <20060619131808.23440.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.34.182.15] by web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:18:08 PDT Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:18:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Danial Thom To: David Hoffman , Brett In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Ingrid Kast Fuller , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:18:32 -0000 --- David Hoffman wrote: > Update: their website now attributes copyright > to both HouFUG AND Brett. > This is despite the fact that Brett seems to be > the sole owner of the work. > I'm not sure why this community feels it can > disregard rights to > intellectual property, especially when it > produces so much on its OWN to be > proud of. Why steal other people's stuff? > > On 6/18/06, David Hoffman > wrote: > > > > It'll certainly be less confusing that what > HouFUG is publishing. They've > > now noted on their site that it was written > by you. However, they STILL > > claim they own the copyright. Have you > waived any of your exclusive rights > > to the work? > > > > On 6/18/06, Brett > wrote: > > > > > Hello > > > > > > I hope the DMCA copyright notice, found at > > > > http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html, > clears up any confusion. > > > > > > thank you! > > > On 6/18/06, Ingrid Kast Fuller < > ingrid@cityscope.net> wrote: > > > > I responded to Bretts email 6 minutes > after he informed me there maybe > > > a > > > > problem with this article. He did NOT > bother to tell me he was the > > > owner of > > > > it. All I knew is someone named Brett at > thisdayislong@gmail.com was > > > > letting me know there was a problem. I > immediately went to > > > arbornet.org to > > > > see where the original information was so > I could find the > > > originator's name > > > > and emailed him back, here is my reply. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Ingrid Kast Fuller [mailto: > ingrid@cityscope.net] > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:40 PM > > > > To: 'Brett' > > > > Subject: RE: concerned question > > > > > > > > I got the information from the > freebsd-config mailing list which is > > > > referenced at the bottom. > > > > Do you know where the original > information is on arbornet.org? I > > > would not > > > > want to infringe on anyone's rights. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ingrid Kast Fuller > > > > CityScope Net 713-477-6161 > > > > 3910 Fairmont Parkway #264 > > > > Pasadena, TX 77504-3076 > > > > http://www.cityscope.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Brett > [mailto:thisdayislong@gmail.com] > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:34 PM > > > > To: ingrid@cityscope.net > > > > Subject: concerned question > > > > > > > > Hi. > > > > > > > > It has come to my attention that you have > an article, located at > > > > > http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm > > > > that is hosted on your fine site and yet > is not referenced. It holds > > > a > > > > copyright reference for houfug, who did > not write the article. > > > > Please attribute the work to > soup@arbornet.org . > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > A concerned citizen Its interesting that the same types of people who whine incessently about things like open source will get all worked up about a "copyright" on some stupid how-to "article". You know what they say; if its not worth money, you might as well get credit. That notice on the bottom of the page looks so stupid and childish. Its almost like they're mocking the author. Like who cares who wrote it. dt __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 14:02:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89D716A47A; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:02:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2858543D49; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:02:48 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57BA02083; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:02:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458CF2082; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:02:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0C6C933C8D; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:02:43 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Dennis Olvany References: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> <867j3dwjq3.fsf@xps.des.no> <449691D9.4020704@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:02:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: <449691D9.4020704@gmail.com> (Dennis Olvany's message of "Mon, 19 Jun 2006 07:00:25 -0500") Message-ID: <86odwputto.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: David Hoffman , freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, ingrid@cityscope.net, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:02:49 -0000 Dennis Olvany writes: > The concept of a fact obviously may not be copyrighted because it is=20 > merely a concept. Barring descriptive literary devices, the facts may be= =20 > copied at will in their expressed form. A photo, being a descriptive=20 > device, is copyrightable. Considering the example of the Haynes manual,=20 > I can extract factual information --such as a starter change procedure--= =20 > from the manual word-for-word and use it. No, you can't. Don't take my word for it; ask a lawyer. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 14:12:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEA0816A47E for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:12:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (66-23-211-162.clients.speedfactory.net [66.23.211.162]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C71C43D46 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:12:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from zion.baldwin.cx (zion.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.7]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k5JECVEJ016579; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:12:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: "David Hoffman" Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 08:52:08 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200606190852.09200.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [192.168.0.1]); Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:12:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.87.1/1549/Sat Jun 17 18:20:39 2006 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.2 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:12:36 -0000 On Sunday 18 June 2006 19:49, David Hoffman wrote: > * *It appears the page at > http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htmconstitutes a serious > breach of copyright. The article, which was > originally written and posted to the Internet by the owner of the account > soup@arbornet.org, is falsely attributed to the Houston FUG, whose members > maliciously removed all reference to its original creator. On a related > note, the FUG seems to be part of an organized group to convince all Stat= es > to adopt English as an official language, a bigoted and misguided policy. >=20 > Plagiarism should not be tolerated. >=20 > Thanks. 1) Please go outdoors and ride a bike or something. You are apparently way, way overstressed. 2) Using terms like "malicious" without proof (and it appears the claim was completely false based on follow-ups since the user group in question added an attribute once they were notified) reduces your credibility immensely. If anything, if the HouFUG were anywhere as litiguous as you they could probably bring a civil suit of libel against you. :) In general it works better if one calmly works to resolve disputes instead of yelling and screaming and whipping out DMCA notices as the first action. 3) FreeBSD is not a political association and has no political ties. This should be rather obvious. On a general note, if you want to discuss issues, it is generally far more credible and useful to include some content in your argument besides elementary-school style name-calling. You seem to have done this twice in this e-mail for both issues. 4) You also violated FreeBSD mailing list etiquette by cross-posting to four mailing lists. FreeBSD-standards@' charter has to do with conformance to computer standards such as POSIX, etc. Please have the courtesy to make sure the lists you are mailing actually discuss what you think they discuss before posting in the future as most list readers have enough relevant e-mail to wade through as it is. =2D-=20 John Baldwin =A0<>< =A0http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" =A0=3D =A0http://www.FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 20:40:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 314E716A677 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:40:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thisdayislong@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690E443D60 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:40:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from thisdayislong@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id n28so1390727nfc for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:40:09 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Im3giF456aqecK34JTOML6feB61rzio98sCsJKoFUbQgqr1I9EZFgrGHC+BxV6jrfJ5tpwwmXskydrXF/6MwK1MgUHK0pbW7JsjeKirvHxYutW8VmDt9Wp4RNz268OrOZ+/vEv8USoaxTNMzD+1E8xXOHJrobXT/ays5OoRqc+Y= Received: by 10.49.3.16 with SMTP id f16mr5938589nfi; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.3.19 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 13:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:40:08 -0400 From: Brett To: danial_thom@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <20060619131808.23440.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060619131808.23440.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: David Hoffman , Ingrid Kast Fuller , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:40:42 -0000 On 6/19/06, Danial Thom wrote: > > > Its interesting that the same types of people who > whine incessently about things like open source > will get all worked up about a "copyright" on > some stupid how-to "article". > > You know what they say; if its not worth money, > you might as well get credit. > > That notice on the bottom of the page looks so > stupid and childish. Its almost like they're > mocking the author. Like who cares who wrote it. > > dt > Obviously, you have never spent days trying out a relatively undocumented procedure, finally getting it right, and then decided to help others out by writing a howto document. I am perfectly happy that Ingrid decided to host this document on her site, but credit was due. Some people do care about the stuff they create. Try writing something of value, and maybe then you'll be qualified to talk about copyright. > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 20:50:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A20816A47D; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:50:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cweldon@cerberusonline.com) Received: from server3.cerberusonline.com (be.24.5746.static.theplanet.com [70.87.36.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F6F43D6D; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:50:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cweldon@cerberusonline.com) Received: from [165.91.5.179] (helo=[165.91.5.179]) by server3.cerberusonline.com with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.50) id 1FsQdG-0006AN-J0; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:46:02 -0500 Message-ID: <44970F07.3020300@cerberusonline.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:54:31 -0500 From: Christopher Weldon User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Macintosh/20060530) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett References: <20060619131808.23440.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: David Hoffman , danial_thom@yahoo.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:50:41 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Brett wrote: > Obviously, you have never spent days trying out a relatively > undocumented procedure, finally getting it right, and then decided to > help others out by writing a howto document. I am perfectly happy > that Ingrid decided to host this document on her site, but credit was > due. Some people do care about the stuff they create. > > Try writing something of value, and maybe then you'll be qualified to > talk about copyright. > > True to the fact that credit was due, I think most everyone on this list has written at least 1 report (or many more) or created some form of work sometime in their lives incumbent of deserving copyright recognition. So, flaunting that someone is not qualified to talk about copyright is most certainly inadequate. - -- Christopher Weldon President, Lead Systems Administrator Cerberus Interactive, Inc. cweldon@cerberusonline.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFElw8HZxvk7JEXkbERAt8AAKCOI5iOBhZCvQ4SldBverhQF0Ja5gCfWC2D wi96EHZAnYKOodLzv31IDwA= =FcPb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 21:06:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938EB16A47A; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:06:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from laszlof@vonostingroup.com) Received: from ritamari.vonostingroup.com (ritamari.vonostingroup.com [216.144.193.230]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D910A43D6B; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:06:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from laszlof@vonostingroup.com) Received: from c-71-227-92-22.hsd1.mi.comcast.net ([71.227.92.22] helo=[192.168.0.2]) by ritamari.vonostingroup.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1FsQwm-0003NR-2b; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:06:12 -0400 Message-ID: <449711B6.801@vonostingroup.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:05:58 -0400 From: Frank Laszlo User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christopher Weldon References: <20060619131808.23440.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44970F07.3020300@cerberusonline.com> In-Reply-To: <44970F07.3020300@cerberusonline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ritamari.vonostingroup.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [26 6] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - vonostingroup.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: David Hoffman , danial_thom@yahoo.com, Brett , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:06:28 -0000 What does this entire thread have to do with freebsd user groups? Just because the allege copyright infringement is against such a group, doesn't mean everyone else has to hear about it. Please remove it from future CC's. Thanks. Regards, Frank From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 19 21:10:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFE5716A47A for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:10:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thisdayislong@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.185]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72E8543D46 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:10:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from thisdayislong@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l37so1368745nfc for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:10:41 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=itM2L0FEvvftlmVopGRqunVKbe5c9WtJZ728uMTn9E9xCbH2wBjFeKETWtTJutqNQyQWH9g4xQJTB3vqoGbjh9qQf8yU4gjRoBwptmOL6LHq6duJWXzcshv0x1VjLWKUSOewgKmZynlgbMJeVMM72lDNwYz9JTgclR7J9BonL0I= Received: by 10.49.36.1 with SMTP id o1mr5965168nfj; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.3.19 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:10:40 -0400 From: Brett To: danial_thom@yahoo.com, "David Hoffman" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, "Ingrid Kast Fuller" , thisdayislong@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <44970F07.3020300@cerberusonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060619131808.23440.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44970F07.3020300@cerberusonline.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:10:44 -0000 On 6/19/06, Christopher Weldon wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Brett wrote: > > Obviously, you have never spent days trying out a relatively > > undocumented procedure, finally getting it right, and then decided to > > help others out by writing a howto document. I am perfectly happy > > that Ingrid decided to host this document on her site, but credit was > > due. Some people do care about the stuff they create. > > > > Try writing something of value, and maybe then you'll be qualified to > > talk about copyright. > > > > > > True to the fact that credit was due, I think most everyone on this list > has written at least 1 report (or many more) or created some form of > work sometime in their lives incumbent of deserving copyright > recognition. So, flaunting that someone is not qualified to talk about > copyright is most certainly inadequate. Danial's comment, which was nothing short of, "who cares who wrote that stupid article", was insulting and still more inadequate. > > - -- > Christopher Weldon > President, Lead Systems Administrator > Cerberus Interactive, Inc. > cweldon@cerberusonline.com > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFElw8HZxvk7JEXkbERAt8AAKCOI5iOBhZCvQ4SldBverhQF0Ja5gCfWC2D > wi96EHZAnYKOodLzv31IDwA= > =FcPb > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 04:03:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDB0116A47E for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:03:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dennisolvany@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BE4543D46 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:03:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dennisolvany@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i34so1154868wra for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:03:14 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=fxPBMzL0He6+H/axlbbhBuFwctXCNFn8+HyO0gZ90IBlaR5bmqfnxtMhtxoR1f4ME/H95fFt9ZkxH/cogzaNbtx9XrEM6fWNlB5YhITQ+wdUrZ+tXXifhiXd20GlBeBBlwyUbPvZHKkXcWeIHUNOB4d1IC1/kq/6BTmU7oJXnfQ= Received: by 10.54.151.19 with SMTP id y19mr74700wrd; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?195.16.87.34? ( [195.16.87.34]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 24sm7857866wrl.2006.06.19.21.03.11; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 21:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4497737D.5020902@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:03:09 -0500 From: Dennis Olvany User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060211) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> <867j3dwjq3.fsf@xps.des.no> <449691D9.4020704@gmail.com> <86odwputto.fsf@xps.des.no> In-Reply-To: <86odwputto.fsf@xps.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: David Hoffman , freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, ingrid@cityscope.net, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:03:17 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Dennis Olvany writes: >> The concept of a fact obviously may not be copyrighted because it is >> merely a concept. Barring descriptive literary devices, the facts may be >> copied at will in their expressed form. A photo, being a descriptive >> device, is copyrightable. Considering the example of the Haynes manual, >> I can extract factual information --such as a starter change procedure-- >> from the manual word-for-word and use it. > No, you can't. Don't take my word for it; ask a lawyer. Johnathan Michaels hit on the next point I would like to make and that is the distinction between patent and copyright. A method or process may be patented, but the factual written procedure of such may not be copyrighted. I'll follow up with some examples of the types are things that are not copyrightable in a final attempt to convey my point. Roses are red. Violets are blue. 2+2=4 howto change oil 1. remove oil cap 2. drain oil 3. remove filter 4. etc. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 06:53:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 353BC16A47C for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:53:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.200]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF44043D55 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:53:45 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s8so360255wxc for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:53:45 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=pZaG10an3XHjJ29KGtTLrDw83WmGvaWSvfG/yDWVzjMw3amZcMsiwvb8lLfyKxRCOFayiNTR4xSDpIgg+tBKgCm3+u1pb3eBeLcDoyzHfSKnVzUnUW0GKRsXMO+tIIXB+u8ktThh3unpVSc21lqjbBlE8r/rCLnbtmHrUjwgsMA= Received: by 10.70.52.10 with SMTP id z10mr9920610wxz; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.111.17 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:53:44 -0400 From: "David Hoffman" To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?=" In-Reply-To: <86bqspwkiv.fsf@xps.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200606190054.k5J0sm0V014234@ns1.cityscope.net> <86bqspwkiv.fsf@xps.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-misc@freebsd.org, Brett , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Ingrid Kast Fuller , freebsd-standards@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:53:48 -0000 Please note that they modified the page several times while I was involved in this discussion. That specific comment was about an old revision. However, the current version of the site still has a problem: while the HouFUG copyright notice could be in reference to the page and not the article, the notice doesn't make that at all clear. This should be changed= . On 6/19/06, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > > "David Hoffman" writes: > > It'll certainly be less confusing that what HouFUG is > publishing. They've > > now noted on their site that it was written by you. However, they STIL= L > > claim they own the copyright. > > No, they claim a copyright for their site, which is perfectly valid - > look up "compilation copyright" in your favorite search engine. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 07:23:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A2916A47D for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:23:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.199]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5080A43D5C for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:23:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so936446wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:23:09 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=RR0YdTEB/QxhbDqZLWh4WrKYd1wUDbnbc0oZqrbz2h+t7Q32Ha6VSnpuBgYD833Ze2fbia3MgbIw8n9mKdncf6LhsYlg1Aq02b6fmg5oy1kCDssySiWcGwCnS5s98CTdIEp/zvjsjhH9IVMhqjzsy71jf9Z3Bk3lBoo92p1cbvw= Received: by 10.70.83.20 with SMTP id g20mr9865069wxb; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.111.17 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:23:08 -0400 From: "David Hoffman" To: "John Baldwin" In-Reply-To: <200606190852.09200.jhb@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200606190852.09200.jhb@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-standards@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:23:13 -0000 On 6/19/06, John Baldwin wrote: > > On Sunday 18 June 2006 19:49, David Hoffman wrote: > > * *It appears the page at > > http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htmconstitutes a serious > > breach of copyright. The article, which was > > originally written and posted to the Internet by the owner of the > account > > soup@arbornet.org, is falsely attributed to the Houston FUG, whose > members > > maliciously removed all reference to its original creator. On a related > > note, the FUG seems to be part of an organized group to convince all > States > > to adopt English as an official language, a bigoted and misguided > policy. > > > > Plagiarism should not be tolerated. > > > > Thanks. > > 1) Please go outdoors and ride a bike or something. You are apparently > way, way overstressed. > > 2) Using terms like "malicious" without proof (and it appears the claim > was completely false based on follow-ups since the user group in > question > added an attribute once they were notified) reduces your credibility > immensely. If anything, if the HouFUG were anywhere as litiguous as > you > they could probably bring a civil suit of libel against you. :) In > general it works better if one calmly works to resolve disputes instead > of yelling and screaming and whipping out DMCA notices as the first > action. > > 3) FreeBSD is not a political association and has no political ties. This > should be rather obvious. On a general note, if you want to discuss > issues, it is generally far more credible and useful to include some > content in your argument besides elementary-school style name-calling. > You seem to have done this twice in this e-mail for both issues. > > 4) You also violated FreeBSD mailing list etiquette by cross-posting to > four mailing lists. FreeBSD-standards@' charter has to do with > conformance to computer standards such as POSIX, etc. Please have the > courtesy to make sure the lists you are mailing actually discuss what > you think they discuss before posting in the future as most list > readers > have enough relevant e-mail to wade through as it is. > > -- > John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ > "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org > 2) What do you call removing all reference to the author of a copyrighted work, and then republishing it claiming it as your own? If not malicious, that's certainly an act of bad faith. Moreover, the fact that they added the notice only AFTER being caught red handed does not suggest they weren't being malicious when they stole the article in question. Also, why are you suggesting I'm litigious? I didn't once make reference to any lawsuit. 3) While you might want to refer to me as a name-caller, litigious, and puerile, it's far from clear that FreeBSD doesn't have political ties when the leaders of FreeBSD groups actively campaign for partially restricting people's ability to communicate in any language but English. Even if you ignored these extracuricular activities, though, you'd still be faced with the fact that FreeBSD is de jure politicized in favor of many things, including free software. 4) Discussions of copyright seem appropriate for freebsd-standard, since any reputable organization that publishes material with computers today makes a good faith effort to ensure they do not violate any copyright. It is therefore a de facto standard. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 07:26:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C4CB16A47F for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:26:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.205]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E0B43D55 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:26:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from zionicman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so936819wxd for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:26:45 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=Z9ChJ8Fft76fq5Oiq/BFo43pIa4hYYvnHYCnwfMFLglwhuDR78X2sNYgh3vo691gG4+2gVjdnR3O1LTDlJ+si4+GZqF4hdRr/YbdRBNofm9u+XMuOOEGedCF0ATZd2wk3HsGaNigXV0TrhtdfMktXHFq76+jJxNnUaWfCoO3sGM= Received: by 10.70.83.20 with SMTP id g20mr9869004wxb; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.111.17 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:26:44 -0400 From: "David Hoffman" To: "Frank Laszlo" In-Reply-To: <449711B6.801@vonostingroup.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060619131808.23440.qmail@web33306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44970F07.3020300@cerberusonline.com> <449711B6.801@vonostingroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Christopher Weldon , freebsd-misc@freebsd.org, freebsd-standards@freebsd.org, Brett , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, danial_thom@yahoo.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:26:49 -0000 On 6/19/06, Frank Laszlo wrote: > > What does this entire thread have to do with freebsd user groups? Just > because the allege copyright infringement is against such a group, > doesn't mean everyone else has to hear about it. Please remove it from > future CC's. Thanks. > > Regards, > Frank > The question isn't whether or not they have to hear about it; instead, the question is whether they should hear about it. Since this issue is related to FreeBSD user groups, it is appropriate for this list. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 09:45:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E656916A481; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:45:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6257D43D45; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:45:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D6A82085; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:45:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CC5F2082; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:45:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0086433C8D; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:45:42 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Dennis Olvany References: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> <867j3dwjq3.fsf@xps.des.no> <449691D9.4020704@gmail.com> <86odwputto.fsf@xps.des.no> <4497737D.5020902@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:45:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4497737D.5020902@gmail.com> (Dennis Olvany's message of "Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:03:09 -0500") Message-ID: <86d5d4upmh.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: David Hoffman , freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, ingrid@cityscope.net, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:45:50 -0000 Dennis Olvany writes: > Johnathan Michaels hit on the next point I would like to make and > that is the distinction between patent and copyright. A method or > process may be patented, but the factual written procedure of such > may not be copyrighted. I'll follow up with some examples of the > types are things that are not copyrightable in a final attempt to > convey my point. You are wrong. The method or process is patentable. A written description of the method or process is copyrightable. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 11:31:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80CD16A479; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:31:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kruptos@mlinux.org) Received: from ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com [65.32.5.131]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F26543D46; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:31:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kruptos@mlinux.org) Received: from fnord.quux.edu (207.40.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com [65.33.40.207]) by ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k5KBVdoR026098; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:31:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Brunelle To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:31:34 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.3 References: <200606190137.k5J1bX0V015840@ns1.cityscope.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200606200731.38119.kruptos@mlinux.org> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: David Hoffman , freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, thisdayislong , Dennis Olvany , Ingrid Kast Fuller , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:31:43 -0000 On Sunday 18 June 2006 21:54, David Hoffman wrote: > However, most of what you wrote is incorrect. Are you seriously trying to > tell us that the author's name is 'Brett Soupman'? That seems like a > pseudonym at best. It's hardly clear he's given you permission to republish > the work, let alone to claim it as your own. Do you represent the copyright holder of this article in any manner? I'm not convinced that you do if you're not even aware of what his name is. And even if Brett Soupman is a pseudonym (which I have seen no indication to support that) the author still has copyright -- something you wish to argue about -- but can grant the use of his work under the pseudonym. If he couldn't then it would be pointless to use one in the first place. > Moreover, due to the > copyright notice attributing the page to HOUFUG, exactly who owns the > article is ambiguous at best. Sure, Brett owns it, but does HOUFUG own it > as well? This isn't at all clear. It is standard practice on the web for site and design copyright to go at the bottom of each page. The fact that this copyright is stated in the same location the site and not the article (as well as the fact that it's on every page) would lead any reasonable person to believe it talks about the website and not the article. Especially considering that valid copyright is now listed on the site in large clear font. You've given strong reason to suspect that you're just trying to stir up trouble and not actually concerned about this copyright issue. If you had been, this would have been approached in a much different manner. I'm not sure if you are upset about the reference on a personal webpage to the English only thing (something surely not supported by the project itself) or have just found a reason to act self-righteous for other purposes. If you are, in fact, representing the copyright holder of this article or any other item on the website, could you please clarify that and stop trying to incite something? -Kevin From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 11:59:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB7316A47B for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:59:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dennisolvany@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.231]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A789443D5A for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:59:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from dennisolvany@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i34so1218432wra for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:59:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=I11QuvmRZkqSPGZZ8uk/02TgcrXm6wQEf+BltxxXOBASbRxOxSQv64xW7XYiW/rn1I98iTn1Di5+BWRiuOrycIh/LFcHlQCQ4jf0sFOskwiPiQCuYqX1ugE0rQIEtaPHausZh/FpudleQiUmgJj74q5QqAdhlkEXGAiXp6NZf+A= Received: by 10.54.61.16 with SMTP id j16mr449978wra; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?195.16.87.34? ( [195.16.87.34]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 45sm4979976wri.2006.06.20.04.59.19; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4497E314.1060805@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:59:16 -0500 From: Dennis Olvany User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060211) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> <867j3dwjq3.fsf@xps.des.no> <449691D9.4020704@gmail.com> <86odwputto.fsf@xps.des.no> <4497737D.5020902@gmail.com> <86d5d4upmh.fsf@xps.des.no> In-Reply-To: <86d5d4upmh.fsf@xps.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: David Hoffman , freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, ingrid@cityscope.net, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:59:35 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Dennis Olvany writes: >> Johnathan Michaels hit on the next point I would like to make and >> that is the distinction between patent and copyright. A method or >> process may be patented, but the factual written procedure of such >> may not be copyrighted. I'll follow up with some examples of the >> types are things that are not copyrightable in a final attempt to >> convey my point. > You are wrong. The method or process is patentable. A written > description of the method or process is copyrightable. howto change oil 1. remove oil cap 2. drain oil 3. remove filter 4. etc. So, you're saying my little oil change procedure is copyrightable? Laughable. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 12:06:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB0516A474 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:06:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from careilly@interactpublications.com) Received: from mail10.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (mail10.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.118.26]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A0BF243D48 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:06:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from careilly@interactpublications.com) Received: (qmail 46180 messnum 6681019 invoked from network[83.71.31.21/83-71-31-21.b-ras1.srl.dublin.eircom.net]); 20 Jun 2006 12:06:06 -0000 Received: from 83-71-31-21.b-ras1.srl.dublin.eircom.net (HELO ?10.0.1.2?) (83.71.31.21) by mail10.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 46180) with SMTP; 20 Jun 2006 12:06:06 -0000 In-Reply-To: <4497E314.1060805@gmail.com> References: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> <867j3dwjq3.fsf@xps.des.no> <449691D9.4020704@gmail.com> <86odwputto.fsf@xps.des.no> <4497737D.5020902@gmail.com> <86d5d4upmh.fsf@xps.des.no> <4497E314.1060805@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v750) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4DD34D9B-9BC4-4ED3-93BE-F61DCDF5F150@interactpublications.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Colman Reilly Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:05:22 +0100 To: Dennis Olvany X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.750) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:06:08 -0000 Can we remove a few of the mailing lists from this please? Perhaps =20 all of them? Thanks, Colman On 20 Jun 2006, at 12:59, Dennis Olvany wrote: > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: >> Dennis Olvany writes: >>> Johnathan Michaels hit on the next point I would like to make and >>> that is the distinction between patent and copyright. A method or >>> process may be patented, but the factual written procedure of such >>> may not be copyrighted. I'll follow up with some examples of the >>> types are things that are not copyrightable in a final attempt to >>> convey my point. > >> You are wrong. The method or process is patentable. A written >> description of the method or process is copyrightable. > > howto change oil > 1. remove oil cap > 2. drain oil > 3. remove filter > 4. etc. > > So, you're saying my little oil change procedure is copyrightable? =20 > Laughable. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-=20 > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 12:12:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4D316A47B; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:12:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94E8F43D88; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:12:07 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BBDF2087; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:12:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81D842085; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:11:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4D06A33C8D; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:11:59 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Dennis Olvany References: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> <867j3dwjq3.fsf@xps.des.no> <449691D9.4020704@gmail.com> <86odwputto.fsf@xps.des.no> <4497737D.5020902@gmail.com> <86d5d4upmh.fsf@xps.des.no> <4497E314.1060805@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:11:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4497E314.1060805@gmail.com> (Dennis Olvany's message of "Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:59:16 -0500") Message-ID: <86wtbct4a9.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: David Hoffman , freebsd-user-groups@freebsd.org, thisdayislong , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, ingrid@cityscope.net, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:12:48 -0000 Dennis Olvany writes: > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav writes: > > You are wrong. The method or process is patentable. A written > > description of the method or process is copyrightable. > > howto change oil > 1. remove oil cap > 2. drain oil > 3. remove filter > 4. etc. > > So, you're saying my little oil change procedure is copyrightable? Yes. > Laughable. I'm sorry you feel that way. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 14:47:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B3C16A47E for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:47:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF66143DBC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:46:51 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd-questions-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: (qmail 18277 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2006 14:46:50 -0000 Received: from dsl092-078-145.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO be-well.ilk.org) ([66.92.78.145]) (envelope-sender ) by mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Jun 2006 14:46:50 -0000 Received: by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id 0CD3E2844A; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:46:50 -0400 (EDT) To: "David Hoffman" References: <200606190852.09200.jhb@freebsd.org> From: Lowell Gilbert Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:46:49 -0400 In-Reply-To: (David Hoffman's message of "Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:23:08 -0400") Message-ID: <4464ivx4ti.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:47:21 -0000 "David Hoffman" writes: > 4) Discussions of copyright seem appropriate for freebsd-standard, since any > reputable organization that publishes material with computers today makes a > good faith effort to ensure they do not violate any copyright. It is > therefore a de facto standard. Also, because computers draw at least several milliamps of electrical current, freebsd-current is an appropriate mailing list. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 16:07:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B211C16A474 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:07:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jan.grant@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from diri.bris.ac.uk (diri.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.112]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4642C43D45 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:07:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jan.grant@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.16.62]) by diri.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Fsiky-0005Ju-LF; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:07:13 +0100 Received: from cse-jg.cse.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.12.37]:60469) by mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.50) id 1Fsiku-0004AA-FY; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:07:12 +0100 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:07:08 +0100 (BST) From: Jan Grant X-X-Sender: cmjg@tribble.ilrt.bris.ac.uk To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4464ivx4ti.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> Message-ID: <20060620170548.S73109@tribble.ilrt.bris.ac.uk> References: <200606190852.09200.jhb@freebsd.org> <4464ivx4ti.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spamassassin: mail.ilrt.bris.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Level: / X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: - Cc: David Hoffman Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:07:15 -0000 On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Lowell Gilbert wrote: > "David Hoffman" writes: > > > 4) Discussions of copyright seem appropriate for freebsd-standard, since any > > reputable organization that publishes material with computers today makes a > > good faith effort to ensure they do not violate any copyright. It is > > therefore a de facto standard. > > Also, because computers draw at least several milliamps of electrical current, > freebsd-current is an appropriate mailing list. Because the discussion has become clever, cunning, roguish, waggish, and mischevous, freebsd-arch should be added to the CC:. -- jan grant, ISYS, University of Bristol. http://www.bris.ac.uk/ Tel +44 (0)117 3317661 http://ioctl.org/jan/ OORDBMSs make me feel old; I remember when this was all fields. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 20 19:28:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38FA116A479 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:28:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4AD43D46 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:28:46 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from [192.168.2.2] ([69.27.149.254]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k5KJRqw3024497 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:28:13 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <44984C2E.50602@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:27:42 -0500 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.0.2) Gecko/20060509 SeaMonkey/1.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Chat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: OT: Employee 'Net Usage, proxy server, restrictions, legal, etc. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:28:47 -0000 Hello, fellow FBSDers.... I've had two clients in the last month or so call and ask about limiting employee browsing (in addition to killing more spam, *sigh*) on their networks. I've no problem implementing this sort of thing with Squid (just finished setting it up at home; don't want the kids to learn any four-letter words from the 'Net before the age of majority [wish me luck!]), but I wonder if anyone could share experiences/insight into the legal aspects, the employee dynamics and potential responses, other issues that may arise, etc., if we proxy all the browsers and start banning sites (or, in the contrary, only allowing business-related sites) via a proxy server. IANAL. I also know that YANAL. This won't be written up in any format other than "some experts agree that" 'foo'.* Any thoughts? TIA! Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. *Unless, of course, you just *have* to have credit, copyright, etc. OOPS! Did I just say 'copyright' ? -- Power and ignorance is a detestable cocktail. -- Poul Henningsen [1894-1967] From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 21 02:34:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8AAA16A479 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:34:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from mail1.webmaster.com (mail1.webmaster.com [216.152.64.168]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BEA743D48 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:34:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from however by webmaster.com (MDaemon.PRO.v8.1.3.R) with ESMTP id md50001113721.msg for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:28:48 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Freebsd-Chat@Freebsd. Org" Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:33:23 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <200606190852.09200.jhb@freebsd.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-Authenticated-Sender: joelkatz@webmaster.com X-Spam-Processed: mail1.webmaster.com, Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:28:48 -0700 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 206.171.168.138 X-Return-Path: davids@webmaster.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-MDAV-Processed: mail1.webmaster.com, Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:28:48 -0700 Subject: RE: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: davids@webmaster.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:34:09 -0000 > 2) Using terms like "malicious" without proof (and it appears the claim > was completely false based on follow-ups since the user group > in question > added an attribute once they were notified) reduces your credibility > immensely. If anything, if the HouFUG were anywhere as > litiguous as you > they could probably bring a civil suit of libel against you. :) In > general it works better if one calmly works to resolve disputes instead > of yelling and screaming and whipping out DMCA notices as the first > action. Specifically since violations of 512(f) can result in huge fines. Specifically, 512(f) states: Any person who knowingly materially misrepresents under this section: (1) that material or activity is infringing, or (2) that material or activity was removed or disabled by mistake or misidentification, shall be liable for any damages, including costs and attorneys’ fees, incurred by the alleged infringer, by any copyright owner or copyright owner ’s authorized licensee, or by a service provider, who is injured by such misrepresentation, as the result of the service provider relying upon such misrepresentation in removing or disabling access to the material or activity claimed to be infringing, or in replacing the removed material or ceasing to disable access to it. So do not send DMCA takedown notices unless you've ensured there is no innocent explanation. I hope the DMCA takedown notice didn't include words like "malicious". >>What do you call removing all reference to the author of a copyrighted >>work, and then republishing it claiming it as your own? Hard to say without knowing how this happened. It could have been a result of an innocent cut&paste, for example, to get rid of headers and trailers that were appropriate in text and inappropriate in HTML. I'm usually really careful about copyright notices, but some people don't even really realize they're important. They're not lawyers, after all. >>If not malicious, >>that's certainly an act of bad faith. Assuming it was intentional rather than any of a million possible other scenarios. >>Moreover, the fact that they added >>the notice only AFTER being caught red handed does not suggest they weren't >>being malicious when they stole the article in question. It equally well suggests that they were caught red handed, that they had no idea that the copyright was cut, or that they didn't recognize the important of respecting copyright. You can equally well look at this as them taking action to fix the situation as soon as they were notified of it. You can call their less than perfect fixes a deliberate attempt to evade a proper fix and to try to get away with the minimum that would satisfy you or a lack of sophistication in understanding what was necessary and appropriate. I know several people who can put a web page together and have no idea how to properly maintain copyright notices or that it's important. I assure you that few of them are malicious. DS From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 21 03:27:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B703716A474 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:27:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thisdayislong@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6CA043D45 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:27:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from thisdayislong@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id x30so28276nfb for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:26:59 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Fl7ZBKWIPjoQCsxNaC8dJ0AFQfYBSvbIRTU21Djbyrhq/Y7CsDoNp7gHGmsk1R3u79/k1L62iMZSqelb9mOJrU4zCw3UAAuwfDR9cJyC+GBrY4BSSC7PcZdIlOnB26jmERoJI1+0qBfKBQZBWSq23MBM+aLOUdIXJQlIFtNbwoY= Received: by 10.48.221.6 with SMTP id t6mr112507nfg; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.3.19 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 23:26:58 -0400 From: Brett To: danial_thom@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <20060621002928.55056.qmail@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060621002928.55056.qmail@web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: zionicman@gmail.com, Ingrid Kast Fuller , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 03:27:01 -0000 On 6/20/06, Danial Thom wrote: > > > User manuals and how-tos don't generally get > copyright notices, because there is nothing > creative about it. Someone could write exactly > the same thing (just about), and you'd have > little claim to it because its just a procedural > description. What, is the formatting of your > index unique or something? Not at all. The entire procedure is unique. That's why it's helpful to others, hopefully. Check out the FreeBSD handbook. It's full of copyright notices. I don't think someone's going to come out with a FreeBSD handbook without images and claim that they wrote it, and then get away with it. And even then, the copyright notice is just a formality. > > But that aside, I was more amused by the subject > "serious breach of copyright", as if someone had > taken your claim for writing War and Peace or > something. They didn't even explicitly put a > byline on it. Its just a how-to on a web page. > > And where are the credits for all of the how-tos > you read to gain this knowledge? Why doesn't > their work count? You should have a full > bibliography. After all, credit is important! > > Like I said, who cares. > > DT > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 21 04:56:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 111D616A474 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 04:56:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from mail1.webmaster.com (mail1.webmaster.com [216.152.64.168]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A964D43D48 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 04:56:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from davids@webmaster.com) Received: from however by webmaster.com (MDaemon.PRO.v8.1.3.R) with ESMTP id md50001113829.msg for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:50:59 -0700 From: "David Schwartz" To: "Freebsd-Chat@Freebsd. Org" Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:55:35 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <4495F9A1.8040407@gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-Authenticated-Sender: joelkatz@webmaster.com X-Spam-Processed: mail1.webmaster.com, Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:50:59 -0700 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 206.171.168.138 X-Return-Path: davids@webmaster.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-MDAV-Processed: mail1.webmaster.com, Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:51:01 -0700 Subject: RE: Fwd: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: davids@webmaster.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 04:56:20 -0000 > I had a look at http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm and I am > afraid that you will find this article is not eligible for copyright. It > constitutes neither an artistic nor literary work. The article conveys > only facts and facts are not eligible for copyright. Wow, you are seriously confused (trolling?). The article conveys only facts and facts are not elgible for copyright. But the article IS NOT the facts it conveys. It is one particular way of conveying those facts. If you expressed those same facts a different way, you would not be violating his copyright. But if you copy his creative choice of words to express those facts, you are. He is not claiming the facts. Only his choice of ways to convey them. Each of the facts listed on that page could be expressed many different ways. "Next do X to Y." "Now you must take Y and do X to it." "The next step involves Y. Do X to it." And so on. These are forumlaic of course, but the real thing is actually much more creative. For fun, pick three random steps in his procedure and come up with three totally different ways to say them (even use very different words -- the windows machine, the host machine, the machine with the installation files, the first machine, Fred, ...). It's easy. However, that a reasonably smart (I presume) person could make an error like this strongly argues against his presumption of malice. DS From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 21 21:55:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09B7F16A474 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:55:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: from web33311.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33311.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.126]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 59C4443D48 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:55:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from danial_thom@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 49185 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Jun 2006 21:55:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=2UfZSRQyX7ImbS/4KmaxClhaOjdbok1EDeM9JGkuEi4ZTwNTJWCFkXJv/5YpszU3ZFF9F60mSjevA+KVX7fdbj8WGjkT3nY76sxiZITOZ72kQFk2VVINLuBc/JfzASjQ9i4tU1EYkaMnJihG1jRDvW5QEMgPPbROjox2WHumx6M= ; Message-ID: <20060621215546.49183.qmail@web33311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.34.182.15] by web33311.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:55:46 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:55:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Danial Thom To: Brett In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: zionicman@gmail.com, Ingrid Kast Fuller , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: danial_thom@yahoo.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:55:48 -0000 --- Brett wrote: > On 6/20/06, Danial Thom > wrote: > > > > > > User manuals and how-tos don't generally get > > copyright notices, because there is nothing > > creative about it. Someone could write > exactly > > the same thing (just about), and you'd have > > little claim to it because its just a > procedural > > description. What, is the formatting of your > > index unique or something? > > Not at all. The entire procedure is unique. > That's why > it's helpful to others, hopefully. > > Check out the FreeBSD handbook. It's full of > copyright notices. > I don't think someone's going to come out with > a FreeBSD handbook > without images and claim that they wrote it, > and then get away with it. > And even then, the copyright notice is just a > formality. > > > > > > But that aside, I was more amused by the > subject > > "serious breach of copyright", as if someone > had > > taken your claim for writing War and Peace or > > something. They didn't even explicitly put a > > byline on it. Its just a how-to on a web > page. > > > > And where are the credits for all of the > how-tos > > you read to gain this knowledge? Why doesn't > > their work count? You should have a full > > bibliography. After all, credit is important! > > > > Like I said, who cares. > > > > DT > > Maybe we can get Ingrid to put your mailing address on there also so we can send you cards, gifts and cash donations. Can you make that about 2 points bigger also? We wouldn't want anyone to miss it. DT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 00:03:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2168216A47D for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:03:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alive@dienub.org) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2005C43D48 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:03:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from alive@dienub.org) Received: from m00h.dienub.org (dienub.org [87.49.144.133]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7905EA50022; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:03:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (unknown [192.168.0.2]) by m00h.dienub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04E281CC0A; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:03:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4499DE61.3020202@dienub.org> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:03:45 +0200 From: "Daniel A." User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Kinsey References: <44984C2E.50602@daleco.biz> In-Reply-To: <44984C2E.50602@daleco.biz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: OT: Employee 'Net Usage, proxy server, restrictions, legal, etc. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:03:58 -0000 Kevin Kinsey wrote: > Hello, fellow FBSDers.... > > I've had two clients in the last month or so call and ask about > limiting employee browsing (in addition to killing more spam, *sigh*) > on their networks. > > I've no problem implementing this sort of thing with Squid (just > finished setting it up at home; don't want the kids to learn any > four-letter words from the 'Net before the age of majority [wish > me luck!]), but I wonder if anyone could share experiences/insight into > the legal aspects, the employee dynamics and potential responses, other > issues that may arise, etc., if we proxy all the browsers and start > banning sites (or, in the contrary, only allowing business-related > sites) via a proxy server. > > IANAL. I also know that YANAL. This won't be written up in any > format other than "some experts agree that" 'foo'.* > > Any thoughts? TIA! > > Kevin Kinsey > DaleCo, S.P. > > *Unless, of course, you just *have* to have credit, copyright, etc. > OOPS! Did I just say 'copyright' ? > Hi Kevin, there are AFAIK absolutely no legal restrictions in limiting an employee's access to the web in his working hours. The company decides what the person is (not) allowed to see on the web, because the company pays for a) The Internet connection b) The employees salary. Limiting what users can see on the web is only problematic on the technical side of things. You can ban every website that contains the word "fuck" in them, but if the employee is motivated enough and is willing to attain the, relatively low, technical skills to bypass the filters - he will do it without any hassle. You can either set up every machine on the network to use a proxy in the web browser, and then deny web access to any unregistered browser (even computer), which is the hardest thing to do but yet the most effective. This will not work if your employees are allowed to, or need to, connect a lot of their own networking devices to the network, in which case you'll need some department in your company which will "register" all allowed devices and configure them to use your proxy. On the other hand, if the above case is true (A lot of "unknown" devices), then it is easier to set up a transparent proxy, in which any device regardless of its own configuration goes through the filtering proxy. But this arises the problem with the motivated person - They can use yet another remote proxy (Tor, for example, or just a public proxy with encryption, or maybe they can even set up their own proxy server at home, or..., or...) to sneak around your filtering. This can be efficiently prevented by disallowing secure (encrypted) streams through your network, but THAT would be a very big mistake on your behalf. I cant stress my previous sentence enough - it would be a VERY big mistake. The best way to prevent the employees from browsing "bad" sites on the web is to scratch down a clear company policy regarding web browsing in working hours. Write down some clear rules which state that any personal non-business related web surfing is disallowed, and most of your problems will just go away - Except for the few employees who are just not motivated enough to care; They are either expendable anyway or too important to let go over such a bagatel. This is also the case with your kids, Kevin. I know it's none of my business, but I suggest that you either be proud if your kids find ways around your filtering (They're clever, and are more likely to know good from wrong. You've raised them right to think independently and responsibly!), or just have a talk with them about surfing the web, and tell them that you would prefer them to keep away from pornographic material on the web. Either way, if they want it enough, they will always find a way. Hope you found my advise worth reading. Kind regards, Daniel A. Akulenok. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 00:10:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F406316A532 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:10:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alive@dienub.org) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7969543D46 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:10:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from alive@dienub.org) Received: from m00h.dienub.org (dienub.org [87.49.144.133]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CCDF8A0022; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:10:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (unknown [192.168.0.2]) by m00h.dienub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0431CC0A; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:10:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4499DFD7.6070105@dienub.org> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:09:59 +0200 From: "Daniel A." User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Kinsey References: <44984C2E.50602@daleco.biz> In-Reply-To: <44984C2E.50602@daleco.biz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: OT: Employee 'Net Usage, proxy server, restrictions, legal, etc. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:10:13 -0000 By the way, look what I just received in my inbox: > We're sorry, the following message could not be delivered: > > This is due to the fact that your message may contain > unacceptable language or inappropriate material as outlined > by our company email policy. > > Message: B4499deb50001.000000000001.000f.mml > From: alive@dienub.org > To: relyod@co-operation-ireland.ie > Subject: Re: OT: Employee 'Net Usage, proxy server, restrictions, legal, etc. > > Please remove any questionable content and resend your message. > > Email filtering provided by NETRIPLEX. > > http://www.netriplex.com I, personally, believe that such cases of filtering are just plain outright immature and over the board. If you don't trust your employees, fire them and hire someone you trust. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 01:19:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F372616A479 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:19:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=XeQICL=AJ=vvelox.net=vvelox@yourhostingaccount.com) Received: from mailout05.yourhostingaccount.com (outmail41.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.253.41]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7954343D45 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:19:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from SRS0=XeQICL=AJ=vvelox.net=vvelox@yourhostingaccount.com) Received: from scan10.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.240] helo=scan10.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout05.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1FtDrB-0006Xs-GI for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:19:41 -0400 Received: from authsmtp08.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.8] ident=exim) by scan10.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1FtDrB-000865-DM for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:19:41 -0400 Received: from authsmtp08.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.8] helo=authsmtp08.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan10.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1FtDrA-000862-PV for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:19:40 -0400 Received: from 24-119-225-24.cpe.cableone.net ([24.119.225.24] helo=vixen42.vulpes) by authsmtp08.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1FtDrA-0004LX-FF for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:19:40 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:20:27 -0500 From: "Z.C.B." To: FreeBSD Chat Message-ID: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.3.1 (GTK+ 2.8.19; i386-portbld-freebsd5.5) X-Face: #F6|40M:N); kuW)1-+f~qNF^iE-mh)Oi4U/fM%20q7[wk^0C&.>wRZ>:h?,N'@}#Osn#%#Rhm7Y7^3T+D|E.Etj}bW2oi2fbPn{w&pb=|44Vtt/GwDduBt7SgT:.>KCAJFCXWZ`v; J=8v{#~@n$:V|oa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Sig_HcwPOZr2TkAQsgnj0ND6e72; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-EN-UserInfo: f1c157ec5ebebd12a8182d58c6ceecd9:1570f0de6936c69fef9e164fffc541bc X-EN-AuthUser: vvelox3 Sender: "Z.C.B." Subject: linux commands for a hardcore freebsd user X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:19:45 -0000 --Sig_HcwPOZr2TkAQsgnj0ND6e72 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Any one know of a list of the equivalent commands for linux as in freebsd? The ones I am interested in is like bsdlabel and other system/administrative ones. --Sig_HcwPOZr2TkAQsgnj0ND6e72 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFEmfBhC1tfcMGJid4RAgn0AJwOmIdE/7uHttDS4mhUMRzQdF/yoQCgh7Uv Je6NyjOAjZZDJZ3FpnFeqBI= =2HL2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_HcwPOZr2TkAQsgnj0ND6e72-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 01:31:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF97F16A474 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:31:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.204]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4163743D46 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:31:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i11so297252nzi for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:31:46 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=nM/pYFTs7HRQRUsRv/WFxFIYU8/AKWhVikucrp/hdsCHxVS/wBVaIaK+YlWlGG6YVEyvJ9lPzSAYrBUEB4ZUldKzAMZ3kJZv8uni9jW6Z1gXc8hQN7zOLrXhi1AgjMe9GWMXJRWX+WLjLq5f82JtXZuCCzObY+T3yiL5uwUHHro= Received: by 10.36.18.16 with SMTP id 16mr507751nzr; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.182.7 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:31:45 -0500 From: "Nikolas Britton" To: Z.C.B. In-Reply-To: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: linux commands for a hardcore freebsd user X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:31:47 -0000 On 6/21/06, Z.C.B. wrote: > Any one know of a list of the equivalent commands for linux as in > freebsd? > For what Linux Distro? -- BSD Podcasts @: http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/ http://freebsdforall.blogspot.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 01:52:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC90D16A47B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:52:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@pilchuck.reedmedia.net) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C68343D48 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:52:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from reed@pilchuck.reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local (Exim 4.44) id 1FtENC-0001Qw-KU; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:52:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:52:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: "Z.C.B." In-Reply-To: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> Message-ID: References: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: "Jeremy C. Reed" Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: linux commands for a hardcore freebsd user X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:52:42 -0000 On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Z.C.B. wrote: > Any one know of a list of the equivalent commands for linux as in > freebsd? > > The ones I am interested in is like bsdlabel and other > system/administrative ones. Have a look at Rosetta Stone for Unix http://bhami.com/rosetta.html BSD Certification Group's command reference (but BSD only) http://www.bsdcertification.org/downloads/20051027_BSDA_command_reference_en-en.pdf I also have a couple charts I use for my BSD classes (that included Linux comparisons) that I will provide to you off list. Jeremy C. Reed echo ':6DB6=88>?;@69876tA=AC8BB5tA6487><' | tr '4-F' 'wu rofIn.lkigemca' From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 02:01:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB55516A47B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:01:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=XeQICL=AJ=vvelox.net=vvelox@yourhostingaccount.com) Received: from mailout06.yourhostingaccount.com (outmail.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.254.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2E943D46 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:01:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from SRS0=XeQICL=AJ=vvelox.net=vvelox@yourhostingaccount.com) Received: from scan05.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.235] helo=scan05.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout06.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1FtEVN-0004Hx-Lg for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:01:13 -0400 Received: from authsmtp09.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.9] ident=exim) by scan05.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1FtEVN-0001ff-ID for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:01:13 -0400 Received: from authsmtp09.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.9] helo=authsmtp09.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan05.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1FtEVN-0001fc-8q for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:01:13 -0400 Received: from 24-119-225-24.cpe.cableone.net ([24.119.225.24] helo=vixen42.vulpes) by authsmtp09.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1FtEVM-0008Jx-VI for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:01:13 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:02:05 -0500 From: "Z.C.B." To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060621210205.553f3292@vixen42.vulpes> In-Reply-To: References: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.3.1 (GTK+ 2.8.19; i386-portbld-freebsd5.5) X-Face: #F6|40M:N); kuW)1-+f~qNF^iE-mh)Oi4U/fM%20q7[wk^0C&.>wRZ>:h?,N'@}#Osn#%#Rhm7Y7^3T+D|E.Etj}bW2oi2fbPn{w&pb=|44Vtt/GwDduBt7SgT:.>KCAJFCXWZ`v; J=8v{#~@n$:V|oa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Sig_LOXi5pSqV9fkd6DXVfAtVNn; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-EN-UserInfo: f1c157ec5ebebd12a8182d58c6ceecd9:1570f0de6936c69fef9e164fffc541bc X-EN-AuthUser: vvelox3 Sender: "Z.C.B." Subject: Re: linux commands for a hardcore freebsd user X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:01:15 -0000 --Sig_LOXi5pSqV9fkd6DXVfAtVNn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:31:45 -0500 "Nikolas Britton" wrote: > On 6/21/06, Z.C.B. wrote: > > Any one know of a list of the equivalent commands for linux as in > > freebsd? > > >=20 > For what Linux Distro? They decided going with Fedora Core was a uh... good idea. --Sig_LOXi5pSqV9fkd6DXVfAtVNn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFEmfogC1tfcMGJid4RAmgPAJ4zDHLduo+E1/35eVx+H64FoHnCjQCfT+C9 p/ooYrv774glYiEgTjZ0PbY= =3ugX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_LOXi5pSqV9fkd6DXVfAtVNn-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 09:57:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EED716A474 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:57:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpetsmoker@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ADBB43D8E for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:57:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from carpetsmoker@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c59so271530pyc for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:57:08 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:date:to:subject:cc:content-type:mime-version:references:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent:from; b=ipJVgac4IvNKJFl7kmaV1K/w05st+8NZvUjK+iyKpvboCcBpLTg0j8eE9qkwXO/IdOEUbHy16Pa89xx7kqEAROqgH5KIgSdUUKeaCW7883gEyqJJdRgMqFjwuvP/Rtru5nQcs0xyqYRDUDsCjZlGisRaW+mGPdQ3j8eSgN4zi6M= Received: by 10.35.103.12 with SMTP id f12mr901157pym; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carpetsmoker.ictwerkplaats.org ( [80.126.94.163]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 55sm752688pyf.2006.06.22.02.57.06; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:54:54 -0000 To: "Daniel A." , "Kevin Kinsey" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <44984C2E.50602@daleco.biz> <4499DFD7.6070105@dienub.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4499DFD7.6070105@dienub.org> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.00 (FreeBSD) From: Martin Tournoy Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: OT: Employee 'Net Usage, proxy server, restrictions, legal, etc. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:57:09 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:09:59 -0000, Daniel A. wrote: > By the way, look what I just received in my inbox: >> We're sorry, the following message could not be delivered: >> This is due to the fact that your message may contain >> unacceptable language or inappropriate material as outlined >> by our company email policy. >> Message: B4499deb50001.000000000001.000f.mml >> From: alive@dienub.org >> To: relyod@co-operation-ireland.ie >> Subject: Re: OT: Employee 'Net Usage, proxy server, restrictions, >> legal, etc. >> Please remove any questionable content and resend your message. >> Email filtering provided by NETRIPLEX. >> http://www.netriplex.com > > I, personally, believe that such cases of filtering are just plain > outright immature and over the board. If you don't trust your employees, > fire them and hire someone you trust. I don't see any offensive material...? Anyway Daniel is absolutly right here. You should of seen the things we figured out to get around filtering at school, even the lusers managed to do so... I work in a small company, six employees at the moment, and everyone has his own workstation. We've got several do's and don't's, and they are broken on a regular base. We've had people using MSN (even though chatting is allowed, but not with the MSN client) downloading movies, even replacing the legal, paid for version of windows with their own illegal downloaded one (beats me why someone would want to do that...) I suppose we can start blocking stuff, what would the result be? People will spend even more company time on personal things, trying to get around the blockade. Besides, how harmfull is it? As for your kids I believe it's better to allow them full access to the internet. Like Daniel said, your kids will get around the block anyway. > don't want the kids to learn any four-letter words from the 'Net before > the age of majority [wish > me luck!]) I think it's better to learn your kids those words yourself, and explain that it's not very nice to say them. They probably have learned them already. I've been a boyscout leader for a couple of years, 5 to 7 year old kids, and each and every one of them knew not just a few, but the full range of words already. And when it comes to pornographic or violent material, it's probably best to have a chat like Daniel said, and skim through the history list every now and then. When they really want to see naked ladies, they will, at their friend's, or they'll buy a playboy, lots of alternatives there. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 10:57:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B83B16A474 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C6A1447BF for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47CC02086; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:57:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id B48522085; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:57:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 91B5033C8D; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:57:42 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: "Jeremy C. Reed" References: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:57:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Jeremy C. Reed's message of "Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:52:46 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <86u06dsbix.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: linux commands for a hardcore freebsd user X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:48 -0000 "Jeremy C. Reed" writes: > echo ':6DB6=3D88>?;@69876tA=3DAC8BB5tA6487><' | tr '4-F' 'wu rofIn.lkigem= ca' "I aa lookina for talaaoaauta work." is probably not what you intended. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 11:05:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B494516A474 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:05:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpetsmoker@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 089D6447DB for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:05:26 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from carpetsmoker@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id n1so389070nzf for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:05:26 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:date:to:subject:cc:content-type:mime-version:references:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent:from; b=FWu6QfhuTdJ0h9fTmmRjuDSVDXI801CU4SwxxSsaaE+ef+qtVNpYMsVQQMKHILbayJrX/ccQEvxzqJh/NawSbHPfqrl9vt+rrXiakw1a9rI0r1615/IfT8OnCi1lCd0qDviuY7wp+GBbCaTBHWMsqSCNXgo3vrsYmwhjC+nYSN4= Received: by 10.36.247.57 with SMTP id u57mr1786363nzh; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carpetsmoker.ictwerkplaats.org ( [80.126.94.163]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 14sm1114654nzp.2006.06.22.04.05.24; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:03:12 -0000 To: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= , "Jeremy C. Reed" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> <86u06dsbix.fsf@xps.des.no> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <86u06dsbix.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.00 (FreeBSD) From: Martin Tournoy Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: linux commands for a hardcore freebsd user X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:05:28 -0000 On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:42 -0000, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > "Jeremy C. Reed" writes: >> echo ':6DB6=88>?;@69876tA=AC8BB5tA6487><' | tr '4-F' 'wu rofIn.lkigemca' > > "I aa lookina for talaaoaauta work." is probably not what you > intended. > > DES Works for me, on FreeBSD 6.1, NetBSD 3.0 and slackware 9 I am looking for telecommute work. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 11:45:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97FDE16A479 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:45:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jakob.grimstveit@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.207]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EBA343D53 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:45:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jakob.grimstveit@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h30so272569wxd for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:45:30 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=FtRyT/HG5JgY9V3qYqT15zjJjD8kZte+rgzxw2+k4Nv9t5id9HcKobisOwN8XRov0iDJpa7bSSy0S1A3osqdOEap/ML96mEujacJJqQYZo7Ud3MqYpR9n6hjpz/TQF/f3Jix1fH31XxhILcAxaqqZAUNVaOfpL0/fUJuYhx9mtg= Received: by 10.70.74.4 with SMTP id w4mr2984605wxa; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:45:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.70.9 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:45:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <77d930220606220445g7b34d1abje526525deefff4cc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:45:30 +0200 From: "Jakob Breivik Grimstveit" Sender: jakob.grimstveit@gmail.com To: "FreeBSD Chat" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> <86u06dsbix.fsf@xps.des.no> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 061910c09940a910 Subject: Re: linux commands for a hardcore freebsd user X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:45:31 -0000 On 6/22/06, Martin Tournoy wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:42 -0000, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wr= ote: > > > "Jeremy C. Reed" writes: > > > echo ':6DB6=3D88>?;@69876tA=3DAC8BB5tA6487><' | tr '4-F' 'wu rofIn.lk= igemca' > > > > "I aa lookina for talaaoaauta work." is probably not what you > > intended. > > > Works for me, on FreeBSD 6.1, NetBSD 3.0 and slackware 9 echo ':6DB6=3D88>?;@69876tA=3DAC8BB5tA6487><' | tr '4-F' 'wu rofIn.lkigemca' produces "correct" result on Mac OSX 10.4.6 as well :-) --=20 Jakob Breivik Grimstveit - http://www.grimstveit.no/jakob - +47 48298152 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 11:55:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DAA116A47B for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:55:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2334E43E2C for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:55:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D532086; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:54:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C3B02082; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:54:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1C1AF33C8D; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:54:55 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Martin Tournoy References: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> <86u06dsbix.fsf@xps.des.no> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:54:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Martin Tournoy's message of "Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:03:12 -0000") Message-ID: <86psh1s8vl.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: linux commands for a hardcore freebsd user X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:55:03 -0000 Martin Tournoy writes: > On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:57:42 -0000, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wr= ote: > > "Jeremy C. Reed" writes: > > > echo ':6DB6=3D88>?;@69876tA=3DAC8BB5tA6487><' | tr '4-F' 'wu rofIn.lk= igemca' > > "I aa lookina for talaaoaauta work." is probably not what you > > intended. > Works for me, on FreeBSD 6.1, NetBSD 3.0 and slackware 9 > I am looking for telecommute work. '4-F' means different things in different locales. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 12:36:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA3116A47E for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:36:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhary@unsane.co.uk) Received: from unsane.co.uk (unsane.co.uk [62.140.220.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39B3743D5A for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:36:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhary@unsane.co.uk) Received: from unsane.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by unsane.co.uk (8.13.5/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5MCarix078468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:36:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jhary@unsane.co.uk) Received: from localhost (jhary@localhost) by unsane.co.uk (8.13.6/8.13.3/Submit) with ESMTP id k5MCaqDW078465; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:36:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jhary@unsane.co.uk) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:36:52 +0100 (BST) From: Vince Hoffman To: "Z.C.B." In-Reply-To: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> Message-ID: <20060622133304.A78390@unsane.co.uk> References: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: linux commands for a hardcore freebsd user X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:36:56 -0000 On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Z.C.B. wrote: > Any one know of a list of the equivalent commands for linux as in > freebsd? > > The ones I am interested in is like bsdlabel and other > system/administrative ones. If you want a reference I like O'reillys "Essential system administration pocket reference" (http://safari.oreilly.com/0596004494 ) Good comparison and covers comercial UNIXs as well as freebsd and linux. may be slightly out of date now as i'm not sure if they cover FreeBSD v5.x or 6.x Vince > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 22 13:47:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A656516A47A for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:47:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 331FA44638 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:47:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i1so451274nzh for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:47:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=rlDPyFArFXz7Ivag080/K/b1d+MHkcbYV6SIrmql6jwwWQux45fTug8ZfYzTBCEKqyY5q+4quOPfPjq7brHeDc01QfQwn/M4ZEhA2JayzCjjY8eNsoObAJZ96Mwsgnttf3mzUvelxvxDeKc2unTKSuVQU4uEJsw2n1s5rzjoZkY= Received: by 10.36.77.2 with SMTP id z2mr723858nza; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.182.7 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:47:50 -0700 From: "Nikolas Britton" To: "Vince Hoffman" In-Reply-To: <20060622133304.A78390@unsane.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> <20060622133304.A78390@unsane.co.uk> Cc: "Z.C.B." , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: linux commands for a hardcore freebsd user X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:47:51 -0000 On 6/22/06, Vince Hoffman wrote: > > > On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Z.C.B. wrote: > > > Any one know of a list of the equivalent commands for linux as in > > freebsd? > > > > The ones I am interested in is like bsdlabel and other > > system/administrative ones. > > If you want a reference I like O'reillys "Essential system administration > pocket reference" (http://safari.oreilly.com/0596004494 ) > > Good comparison and covers comercial UNIXs as well as freebsd and linux. > may be slightly out of date now as i'm not sure if they cover FreeBSD v5.x > or 6.x > Pub Date: November 2002... FreeBSD 5.0 was released January 2003... FreeBSD 4.7 was released October 2002. ------------------- Unix in a Nutshell: A Desktop Quick Reference for System V & Solaris 2.0 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1199000590/ Unix in a Nutshell: A Desktop Quick Reference for SVR4 and Solaris 7 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1565924274/ The reason I suggest those books is because Linux is SysV based and Solaris (SunOS) is/was BSD based. ------------------- A copy of UNIX Power Tools will help you: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0596003307/ And don't forget both books at http://www.admin.com/ -- BSD Podcasts @: http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/ http://freebsdforall.blogspot.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 23 03:41:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5988A16A47C for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 03:41:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=CONEz0=AK=vvelox.net=vvelox@yourhostingaccount.com) Received: from mailout06.yourhostingaccount.com (outmail.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.254.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9FF43D45 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 03:41:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from SRS0=CONEz0=AK=vvelox.net=vvelox@yourhostingaccount.com) Received: from scan06.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.236] helo=scan06.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout06.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1FtcXj-0003Po-NR for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:41:16 -0400 Received: from authsmtp09.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.9] ident=exim) by scan06.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1FtcXj-0006li-HE for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:41:15 -0400 Received: from authsmtp09.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.9] helo=authsmtp09.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan06.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1FtcXj-0006la-3L for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:41:15 -0400 Received: from 24-119-225-24.cpe.cableone.net ([24.119.225.24] helo=vixen42.vulpes) by authsmtp09.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1FtcXi-0001nX-5T; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:41:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:42:20 -0500 From: "Z.C.B." To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Message-ID: <20060622224220.65dc940d@vixen42.vulpes> In-Reply-To: References: <20060621202027.504fff4a@vixen42.vulpes> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.3.1 (GTK+ 2.8.19; i386-portbld-freebsd5.5) X-Face: #F6|40M:N); kuW)1-+f~qNF^iE-mh)Oi4U/fM%20q7[wk^0C&.>wRZ>:h?,N'@}#Osn#%#Rhm7Y7^3T+D|E.Etj}bW2oi2fbPn{w&pb=|44Vtt/GwDduBt7SgT:.>KCAJFCXWZ`v; J=8v{#~@n$:V|oa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_in63Tn/.+oxBPKBG_=F=13u"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-EN-UserInfo: f1c157ec5ebebd12a8182d58c6ceecd9:1570f0de6936c69fef9e164fffc541bc X-EN-AuthUser: vvelox3 Sender: "Z.C.B." Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: linux commands for a hardcore freebsd user X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 03:41:18 -0000 --Sig_in63Tn/.+oxBPKBG_=F=13u Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:52:46 -0700 (PDT) "Jeremy C. Reed" wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Z.C.B. wrote: >=20 > > Any one know of a list of the equivalent commands for linux as in > > freebsd? > >=20 > > The ones I am interested in is like bsdlabel and other > > system/administrative ones. >=20 > Have a look at >=20 > Rosetta Stone for Unix > http://bhami.com/rosetta.html >=20 > BSD Certification Group's command reference (but BSD only) > http://www.bsdcertification.org/downloads/20051027_BSDA_command_reference= _en-en.pdf >=20 > I also have a couple charts I use for my BSD classes (that included > Linux comparisons) that I will provide to you off list. Cool. Thanks. The Rosetta Thing was useful. --Sig_in63Tn/.+oxBPKBG_=F=13u Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFEm2MfC1tfcMGJid4RAlNNAJ46ZKAmMge4ksW7vLkEAd6gX6/zyQCfWGYC 6mtFEGAHd8tSLQq5jfOtAiI= =b8dr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_in63Tn/.+oxBPKBG_=F=13u--