From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 23 00:53:51 2006
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From: "scottd@cloud9.net" <scottd@cloud9.net>
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Subject: High-availability storage
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Greetings,
I'm looking for some information on high-availability direct-attached
storage with FreeBSD. To be specific, some form of RAID 6 with 12 to 16
SATA drives (500 or 750GB).
We have a 2TB NetApp filer, but will soon be outgrowing it. More NetApp
space would be nice, but it's expensive and not as dense (144 or 300GB
SCSI drives only) as other options. Given that FreeBSD now has snapshot
support, and dual parity disk setups are more common than a few years ago,
it's an attractive option.
What's frustrating is that none of the external SATA controllers supported
by FreeBSD (Areca 1120ML, Adaptec 4805) have more than 128MB of cache.
Using SATA to Fibre Channel would be the next choice, with RAID 6 being
handled by the array itself (Nexsan SATABoy, for example) but FC support
on FreeBSD seems limited.
Any thoughts? Thanks.
- Scott
From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 23 05:18:00 2006
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:17:56 -0600
From: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@kdm.org>
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Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: High-availability storage
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On Sat, Jul 22, 2006 at 20:53:49 -0400, scottd@cloud9.net wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm looking for some information on high-availability direct-attached
> storage with FreeBSD. To be specific, some form of RAID 6 with 12 to 16
> SATA drives (500 or 750GB).
>
> We have a 2TB NetApp filer, but will soon be outgrowing it. More NetApp
> space would be nice, but it's expensive and not as dense (144 or 300GB
> SCSI drives only) as other options. Given that FreeBSD now has snapshot
> support, and dual parity disk setups are more common than a few years ago,
> it's an attractive option.
>
> What's frustrating is that none of the external SATA controllers supported
> by FreeBSD (Areca 1120ML, Adaptec 4805) have more than 128MB of cache.
> Using SATA to Fibre Channel would be the next choice, with RAID 6 being
> handled by the array itself (Nexsan SATABoy, for example) but FC support
> on FreeBSD seems limited.
>
> Any thoughts? Thanks.
If all you need is 12-16 disks, you could just get a PC enclosure that can
handle 15 or so drives, like the Supermicro SC933T. Then you can use
internal SATA cabling. I've got an Areca ARC-1260, and it works fine. (It
comes standard with 256MB cache, you can upgrade it to 1GB.)
FreeBSD's FC support works fairly well, and should certainly work well
enough to connect to a Nexsan box. QLogic and LSI boards both work fairly
well. (I've used 2Gbit boards from both vendors.)
Ken
--
Kenneth Merry
ken@kdm.org
From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 23 15:54:48 2006
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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 08:53:48 +0100
From: Dieter <freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com>
Cc:
Subject: Improving FreeBSD's hardware compatibility - TV tuners
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> analog TV? what's that? isn't everyone going digital? (yes, I know
> that analog TV will be with us for a long time due to security cams
> and other uses..)
Broadcast analog TV will be going away soon. Yet there will be
continue to be some uses for analog capture. So I recommend
concentrating first on tuners that handle both analog and digital.
Work is in progress on the Dvico Fusion5 tuners. The Fusion5
is nice because it is available in a USB version, which does
not require a slot.
Another tuner worthy of a BSD driver is the HD3000. Does both
analog and digital in a variety of formats (NTSC, PAL, 8VSB, QAM,
etc.) Has working Linux drivers with source. The only tuner I
know of that is documented to be friendly to fair use rights.
The Fusion5 and HD3000 use different chips. If one doesn't work
well in a particular reception environment, the other might.
From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 24 06:58:05 2006
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Cc: "Rick C. Petty" <rick-freebsd@kiwi-computer.com>,
freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: device busy -- no locks?
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On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Jo Rhett wrote:
> Thanks for the super-quick reply! Responses are inline...
>
> On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 07:16:07PM -0500, Rick C. Petty wrote:
>>> root@scapa 47# fstat /dev/ttyd0
>>> USER CMD PID FD MOUNT INUM MODE SZ|DV R/W NAME
>>
>> What about "fstat /dev/cuad0" ? Anyway, I've found that fstat is useless,
>> try using sysutils/lsof instead.
This is related to a longstanding (design) bug in vfs (first-open/last-close
semantics). vfs counts devices as being open when it calls the device
open routine, despite devices not actually being open until the device
open routine returns successfully, which may happen much later (or not
at all in the case of failure, but this doesn't cause any additional
problems). This causes the device close routine to not be called in
some cases where it should be. For bidirectional serial devices, not
calling the device close routine results in "callin" devices that are
sleeping in open being treated the same as "callin" devices that have
successfully completed the open. The former shouldn't give EBUSY for
opens of the corresponding "callout" device, but the latter should and
do.
FreeBSD-1 has a hack to vfs to work around the bug, but the hack was
lost in FreeBSD-2. I still use the hack locally. Startting with about
FreeBSD-4, there is a D_TRACKCLOSE device flag that can be used to fix
the problem less hackishly (but still not in the right way, since it
requires individual drivers to do generic things). I haven't got around
to using it to fix sio even locally. D_TRACKCLOSE is mostly unused and
mostly used bogusly when it is used.
The bug rarely causes problems since it is only activated by doing
something like the following:
thread1: "open" /dev/ttyd0. Actually, block in open waiting for carrier.
thread2: open /dev/ttyd0 using O_NONBLOCK to prevent blocking.
thread2: perhaps actually use /dev/ttyd0
thread2: "close" /dev/ttyd0. Actually, don't complete the close due to
the bogus vfs close.
thread1: remain blocked in open through all the above.
thread3: try to open /dev/cuaa^Hd0. Get EBUSY because the non-open by
thread1 is seen as an open.
Starting with about FreeBSD-5, there may be additional problems from races.
First-open/last-close semantics basically require opens to be synchronous.
Sleeping in open for serial device drivers gives large race windows in
which to open may race open/close of the same device in other threads.
Prempting the kernel gives small race windows. In practice, Giant locking
limits problems. For serial drivers, open/close should still be Giant-
locked since the whole tty subsystem is still Giant-locked. (Note that
all vfs locks are dropped before calling device open/close. The bogus vfs
count provides some psuedo-locking.)
Rearrangement of serial drivers in -current may have enlarged the bug,
but I can't see any enlargement except that from more serial drivers
now supporting bidirectional devices.
> Sorry, yes. Same results. And if lsof shows things that fstat doesn't,
> then this is a bug in FreeBSD.
>
> But anyway,
> root@scapa 63# lsof /dev/cuad0
> root@scapa 64# lsof /dev/ttyd0
>
> Nada.
I think fstat and lsof can't see threads sleeping in open since the open
hasn't really completed -- the open has completed enough to confuse vfs
but not for vfs to report its confusion to userland. It should be possible
to see threads sleeping in open using "ps -lax | grep ttydcd" ("ttydcd" is
the string for -current; the string for sio used to be "siodcd". Grep for
"tty" and "dcd" too). This won't distinguish between threads sleeping
normally in open (ttyopen) and ones that are in a bogus state due to a
missing close.
> Also note that this system is pretty bone stock. Standard install, plus
> mysql and apache. Nothing else would be using the port. It's something
> that left it locked, and really only "login" could be the culprit.
Quite likely, but login doesn't use O_NONBLOCK so I don't know how it
could trigger the bug. Maybe nopise on DCD cound do it. The easiest
way to trigger the bug is "stty -f /dev/ttyd0" while there is a login
blocked in open on ttyd0.
>>> No locks? No processes using it. Okay, this is uncool.
>>> And yet "ktrace tip com1" and "kdump -f ktrace.out" clearly show:
>>>
>>> 50461 tip CALL open(0x8059030,0x6,0)
>>> 50461 tip NAMI "/dev/cuad0"
>>> 50461 tip RET open -1 errno 16 Device busy
>>
>> This isn't very useful. A ktrace on the process that's locking the file
>> would be. :-P
>
> See above. I can't find it. :-(
You might need to start ktracing very early to locate the original
problematic open/open/close sequence.
>>> NOTE: at this time I am suspecting that CD is being misread (it's not
>>> present - I have a break out box on the line) and that this problem is
>>> somehow tied to that. This problem appears at random after login has
>>> exerted itself on the system. I've disabled the getty on ttyd0 and login
>>> has timed out, but it continues to show "device busy".
>>
>> How did you disable the getty? Was this prior to or after a restart? It
>> sounds like /etc/ttys is maybe running a process on it. You need to
>> "killall -HUP init" after changing /etc/ttys. But you probably already
>> know that.
>
> Yes, I change "on" to "off" in /etc/ttys and "kill -1 1" :-)
Killing all processes sleeping in serial device open unwedges the port for
the bug that I know about (provided the close doesn't hang). This and
making the open succeed by raising DCD in hardware are the only ways that
I know of to unwedge the port once the open gets stuck.
Bruce
From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 24 16:07:38 2006
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From: Oliver Fromme <olli@lurza.secnetix.de>
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Cc:
Subject: Re: Improving FreeBSD's hardware compatibility
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Intron <mag@intron.ac> wrote:
> Oliver Fromme wrote:
> > Intron wrote:
> > > Do you believe that current Intel Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon XP can process
> > > analog TV in full frame size and full frame rate (no larger than 767x575,
> > > 25 FPS, either of NTSC/PAL/SECAM) freely?
> >
> > My 7-years old Pentium-II can do that.
>
> Really?
Yes. It has an old bt848 PCI card and is perfectly capable
of receiving analog TV.
Best regards
Oliver
--
Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing
Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd
Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author
and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way.
"IRIX is about as stable as a one-legged drunk with hypothermia
in a four-hundred mile per hour wind, balancing on a banana
peel on a greased cookie sheet -- when someone throws him an
elephant with bad breath and a worse temper."
-- Ralf Hildebrandt
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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:19:04 -0700
From: Jo Rhett <jrhett@svcolo.com>
To: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
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Cc: "Rick C. Petty" <rick-freebsd@kiwi-computer.com>,
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Subject: Re: device busy -- no locks?
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Thank you for the detailed reply. My answers are inline.
On Mon, Jul 24, 2006 at 04:57:57PM +1000, Bruce Evans wrote:
> This is related to a longstanding (design) bug in vfs (first-open/last-close
> semantics). vfs counts devices as being open when it calls the device
> open routine, despite devices not actually being open until the device
> open routine returns successfully, which may happen much later (or not
> at all in the case of failure, but this doesn't cause any additional
> problems). This causes the device close routine to not be called in
> some cases where it should be. For bidirectional serial devices, not
> calling the device close routine results in "callin" devices that are
> sleeping in open being treated the same as "callin" devices that have
> successfully completed the open. The former shouldn't give EBUSY for
> opens of the corresponding "callout" device, but the latter should and
> do.
>
> FreeBSD-1 has a hack to vfs to work around the bug, but the hack was
> lost in FreeBSD-2. I still use the hack locally. Startting with about
> FreeBSD-4, there is a D_TRACKCLOSE device flag that can be used to fix
> the problem less hackishly (but still not in the right way, since it
> requires individual drivers to do generic things). I haven't got around
> to using it to fix sio even locally. D_TRACKCLOSE is mostly unused and
> mostly used bogusly when it is used.
>
> The bug rarely causes problems since it is only activated by doing
> something like the following:
>
> thread1: "open" /dev/ttyd0. Actually, block in open waiting for
> carrier.
> thread2: open /dev/ttyd0 using O_NONBLOCK to prevent blocking.
> thread2: perhaps actually use /dev/ttyd0
> thread2: "close" /dev/ttyd0. Actually, don't complete the close due to
> the bogus vfs close.
> thread1: remain blocked in open through all the above.
> thread3: try to open /dev/cuaa^Hd0. Get EBUSY because the non-open by
> thread1 is seen as an open.
Well in this case it's a simple/standard/stock "getty" and qpage trying to
use the same phone line.
> Starting with about FreeBSD-5, there may be additional problems from races.
> First-open/last-close semantics basically require opens to be synchronous.
> Sleeping in open for serial device drivers gives large race windows in
> which to open may race open/close of the same device in other threads.
> Prempting the kernel gives small race windows. In practice, Giant locking
> limits problems. For serial drivers, open/close should still be Giant-
> locked since the whole tty subsystem is still Giant-locked. (Note that
> all vfs locks are dropped before calling device open/close. The bogus vfs
> count provides some psuedo-locking.)
Okay, you lost me here. Is there anything I can do about this? Patch
qpage to use giant-locks?
> I think fstat and lsof can't see threads sleeping in open since the open
> hasn't really completed -- the open has completed enough to confuse vfs
> but not for vfs to report its confusion to userland. It should be possible
> to see threads sleeping in open using "ps -lax | grep ttydcd" ("ttydcd" is
> the string for -current; the string for sio used to be "siodcd". Grep for
> "tty" and "dcd" too). This won't distinguish between threads sleeping
> normally in open (ttyopen) and ones that are in a bogus state due to a
> missing close.
For the record, 6.0-REL is apparently using ttydcd
root@arran 3# ps -lax |grep dcd
0 11571 1 0 5 0 1260 792 ttydcd S ?? 0:00.00 /usr/libexec/getty std.9600 ttyd0
> Quite likely, but login doesn't use O_NONBLOCK so I don't know how it
> could trigger the bug. Maybe nopise on DCD cound do it. The easiest
> way to trigger the bug is "stty -f /dev/ttyd0" while there is a login
> blocked in open on ttyd0.
Ah... so that's why it happened so often while I was testing last Thursday.
I was checking the tty state while working on the problem, and...
> Killing all processes sleeping in serial device open unwedges the port for
> the bug that I know about (provided the close doesn't hang). This and
Hm. We have seen a repeated and oft-repeatable situation where getty will
start login on the port, and we try to kill login to clear it. login
hangs, and stays in a zombie state for up to a full day. Related?
> making the open succeed by raising DCD in hardware are the only ways that
> I know of to unwedge the port once the open gets stuck.
Very good to know. That will make testing this problem much easier.
(reboots must be scheduled weeks in advance, so...)
Yes, I am trying to build a test system we can use to replicate/play
with this bug.
--
Jo Rhett
senior geek
SVcolo : Silicon Valley Colocation
From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 24 20:58:10 2006
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Cc: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>, Intron <mag@intron.ac>
Subject: Re: Improving FreeBSD's hardware compatibility
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On Friday 21 July 2006 02:19, Intron wrote:
> >> 3. Philips SAA 7130/7134, TV decoder
> >> This is one of the most popular TV decoder chips on the market.
> >> The data sheet can be obtained from the vendor, just as what Linux
> >> community has done.
> >
> > analog TV? what's that? isn't everyone going digital? (yes, I know
> > that analog TV will be with us for a long time due to security cams
> > and other uses..)
>
> Do you believe that current Intel Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon XP can process
> analog TV in full frame size and full frame rate (no larger than 767x575,
> 25 FPS, either of NTSC/PAL/SECAM) freely?
Umm, quite certain actually. If you are ever in the US with cable, go turn on
The Weather Channel. If you are in a modestly large market (such as a city)
then every frame of video you see is being rendered on a Pentium 4-based PC
at the NTSC standard 29.97 FPS (or whatever the exact number is). :)
> Do you really believe that current Intel Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon XP
> can process much higher bitstream HDTV?
In my experience the bottleneck is not the CPU, but bus bandwidth. PCI-e has
a lot more bandwidth than PCI. PCI-e should be sufficient for HD.
--
John Baldwin
From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 25 20:22:34 2006
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Subject: Re: device busy -- no locks?
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On Jul 23, 2006, at 11:57 PM, Bruce Evans wrote:
> Killing all processes sleeping in serial device open unwedges the
> port for
> the bug that I know about (provided the close doesn't hang). This and
> making the open succeed by raising DCD in hardware are the only
> ways that
> I know of to unwedge the port once the open gets stuck.
Hm. So I just noticed that ttyd0 was locked even though nothing was
using it. I shut down qpage and disabled the getty (vi /etc/ttys and
kill -1 1) and now there's no processes to use it and its still locked.
Anything else I can gather to help debug this? Or in particular, get
a bug open on this and perhaps get it fixed?
--
Jo Rhett
senior geek
Silicon Valley Colocation
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From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 26 15:27:31 2006
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Subject: FreeBSD 6.1 installer doesn't recognize ICH5R RAID1
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hi all-
I had also posted this message to freebsd-questions, but thought this
might be a more appropriate list, so apologies if some of you are seeing
double.
I'm doing a clean install to 6.1, and i've decided to set up my system
drives as RAID 1 now that I see that 6.1 has support for the ICH5R raid
controller. My BIOS recognizes the SATA RAID 1 array correctly, but the
FreeBSD installer still sees 'ad4' and 'ad6' as two separate drives. The
installer has no problem with my 3ware 9500-based RAID5 array.
FWIW, ad4 and ad6 both have old installs of freebsd 5.4 on them,
including bootloaders, not sure if that's causing some of the confusion
here. should i format the RAID1 array first using the Intel utility? or
should i just look to gmirror?
thanks in advance,
darren david
From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 28 11:05:24 2006
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From: Michael Ranner <mranner@inode.at>
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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 13:03:09 +0200
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Subject: ICH7 SATA controller on HP nx7400 does not find disc
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Hello!
I have already searched Google and the mailing list archive, and found there
were some problems with ICH7 SATA in the past months.
I got my brandnew HP nx7400 notebook today and tried to install FreeBSD
6.1-RELEASE. The kernel shows the SATA controller, but does not recognize the
SATA disc. IDE CDROM works properly.
The BIOS offers a feature to put the SATA controller in compatibilty mode, but
I am not very happy with this, because only UDMA33 is available instead of
SATA150 and SATA300.
Any ideas?
--
/\/\ichael Ranner
mranner@inode.at - mranner@jawa.at - mranner@bugat.at
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W+++$ N+(++) o-- K- w--()$ O-(--) M@ V-(--) PS+>++ PE(-) Y+ PGP(-)
t+ 5+ X+++(++++) R* tv++ b+(++) DI++ D-(--) G- e h--(*) r++ y?
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From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 29 22:58:54 2006
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Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:58:48 +0200
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From: wiak <tommarnk@gmail.com>
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Subject: server hardware
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Am gonna build a new sever soon
but will this setup support FreeBSD 6.1 AMD64?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AMD Opteron 170 Dual Core (S939, 2,0GHz, 2MB, Boxed)
2x Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD, 73GB (10000rpm, SATA, 16MB)
2GB PC3200 DDR ECC Reg. CL3 (Kingston KVR400D4R3A/2G)
Chieftec UNC-110S-B (1U, ATX, 220W, Zwart)
Tyan Tomcat K8E, nForce4 (Sound, LAN, SATA II, RAID, 1394, VGA)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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