From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 21 06:07:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94FA16A424; Sun, 21 May 2006 06:07:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Yuriy.Tsibizov@gfk.ru) Received: from mx.gfk.ru (mx.gfk.ru [84.21.231.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BD1E43D5A; Sun, 21 May 2006 06:07:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Yuriy.Tsibizov@gfk.ru) Received: from demon.hhp.local by mx.gfk.ru (MDaemon.PRO.v8.1.4.R) with ESMTP id md50000230796.msg; Sun, 21 May 2006 10:07:09 +0400 Received: from dialup-chibis.gfk.ru ([10.0.6.45]) by demon.hhp.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 21 May 2006 10:07:05 +0400 Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 10:07:52 +0400 (MSD) From: Yuriy Tsibizov X-X-Sender: chibis@free.home.local To: sekes In-Reply-To: <53cc795f0605201022t1f87ab4jf25276ccbf724045@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060521095613.I777@free.home.local> References: <53cc795f0605201022t1f87ab4jf25276ccbf724045@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2006 06:07:05.0809 (UTC) FILETIME=[C925FC10:01C67C9C] X-Spam-Processed: mx.gfk.ru, Sun, 21 May 2006 10:07:09 +0400 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 10.0.0.8 X-Return-Path: Yuriy.Tsibizov@gfk.ru X-MDAV-Processed: mx.gfk.ru, Sun, 21 May 2006 10:07:10 +0400 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 06:07:15 -0000 On Sat, 20 May 2006, sekes wrote: > On 5/20/06, Yuriy Tsibizov wrote: > > On Sat, 20 May 2006, sekes wrote: > > > i have this soundcard: > > EMU10000 Sound Blaster Live! (Also Live! 5.1) - OEM from > DELL - CT4780 > > > > i can test your driver, but it is not supported as i see :( > > may i hope of supporting dell oem cards by your driver in a > future? > > Can you try? I think it can work with emu10kx, there was some > yes it does. thanks. everything works fine except a liitle lack: rears > not producing any sound :) Did you set your sound player to use /dev/dsp1 for output? You will also need to use mixer -f /dev/mixer1 to control "rear" mixer. > > that's a dmesg: > emu10kx0: port 0xdf80-0xdf9f irq > 21 at device 13.0 on pci2 Do you really have this card or it is misdetected? > pcm0: on emu10kx0 > pcm0: > pcm1: on emu10kx0 > pcm2: on emu10kx0 > pcm3: on emu10kx0 > pci2: at device 13.1 (no driver attached) center / sub will not work on your card (for now). > sudo cat /dev/emu10kx0 > FreeBSD EMU10Kx Audio Driver > > Hardware resource usage: > DSP General Purpose Registers: 38 used, 256 total > DSP Instruction Registers: 54 used, 512 total > Card supports AC97 codec and 5.1 output, SBLive! DSP code > > Installed devices: > EMU10Kx DSP FRONT PCM Interface on pcm0 > EMU10Kx DSP REAR PCM Interface on pcm1 > EMU10Kx DSP CENTER PCM Interface on pcm2 > EMU10Kx DSP SUBWOOFER PCM Interface on pcm3 > EMU10Kx MIDI Interface > On-card connector on midi0 Hmm... I'll look on this too. There should be no MIDI related info, because you don't have midi device in dmesg. > IR reciever MIDI events disabled Thank you for your help, Yuriy From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 22 11:02:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D877F16A59B for ; Mon, 22 May 2006 11:02:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [216.136.204.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE5643D45 for ; Mon, 22 May 2006 11:02:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (peter@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4MB2s9c034924 for ; Mon, 22 May 2006 11:02:54 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k4MB2rJZ034920 for freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 May 2006 11:02:53 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 11:02:53 GMT Message-Id: <200605221102.k4MB2rJZ034920@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: peter set sender to owner-bugmaster@freebsd.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to you X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 11:02:58 -0000 Current FreeBSD problem reports Critical problems Serious problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o [2004/02/22] kern/63204 multimedia [sound] /dev/mixer broken with ESS Maestr f [2004/11/16] kern/73987 multimedia [sound] Nforce2 MB sound problem o [2005/04/14] kern/79905 multimedia [sound] sis7018 sound module problem o [2005/04/14] kern/79912 multimedia [sound] sound broken for 2 VIA chipsets: o [2005/05/17] kern/81146 multimedia [sound] Sound isn't working AT ALL for Si o [2005/06/08] kern/82043 multimedia [sound] snd_emu10k1 - mixer does not work o [2005/12/10] kern/90214 multimedia [sound] memory leaks in snd_via8233 o [2006/03/09] kern/94279 multimedia [snd_neomagic] snd_neomagic crashes on Fr o [2006/04/30] kern/96538 multimedia [sound] emu10k1-driver inverts channels 9 problems total. Non-critical problems S Submitted Tracker Resp. Description ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- f [2001/02/26] kern/25386 multimedia [sound] Incorrect mixer registers (line & o [2002/04/30] kern/37600 multimedia [sound] [partial patch] t4dwave drive doe f [2003/12/26] kern/60599 multimedia [bktr] [partial patch] No sound for ATI T o [2003/12/29] kern/60677 multimedia [sound] [patch] No reaction of volume con f [2004/05/14] kern/66642 multimedia [sound] pcm0: play: 0: play interrupt tim f [2004/09/30] kern/72218 multimedia [sound] audio recording broken with emu10 o [2004/10/22] kern/72995 multimedia [sound] Intel ICH2 (82801BA) - sound near o [2005/04/08] kern/79678 multimedia [sound] sound works except recording from o [2005/04/29] kern/80465 multimedia [sound] pcm0:record:0: record interrupt t o [2005/05/05] kern/80632 multimedia pcm driver missing support for CMI8738 au o [2005/07/29] kern/84311 multimedia [sound] 82801FB/FR/FW/FRW Intel High Defi f [2005/08/03] kern/84507 multimedia [sound] fm801: Not every card supports va f [2005/09/11] kern/85964 multimedia [sound] Can't play 24 bit audio (Audigy 2 o [2005/10/21] kern/87782 multimedia [sound] snd_t4dwave and pcm0:record:0: re f [2005/11/11] kern/88820 multimedia [sound] Erratic recognition of VIA 8285 s o [2006/01/29] kern/92512 multimedia [sound] distorted mono output with emu10k o [2006/01/30] kern/92557 multimedia [sound] Contrary to 6.0 release notes, sn o [2006/03/01] i386/93986 multimedia Acer TravelMate 4652LMi pcm0 channel dead o [2006/03/29] kern/95086 multimedia [sound] uaudio line in problem with sbdm 19 problems total. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 22 13:29:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956AE16A696 for ; Mon, 22 May 2006 13:29:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@meijome.net) Received: from sigma.octantis.com.au (ns2.octantis.com.au [207.44.189.124]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1616B43D67 for ; Mon, 22 May 2006 13:29:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@meijome.net) Received: (qmail 26218 invoked from network); 22 May 2006 23:29:50 +1000 Received: from 210-84-48-42.dyn.iinet.net.au (HELO localhost) (210.84.48.42) by sigma.octantis.com.au with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 22 May 2006 23:29:50 +1000 Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 23:29:38 +1000 From: Norberto Meijome To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Message-ID: <20060522232938.423b42bf@localhost> In-Reply-To: <200605181036.k4IAagB8004732@lurza.secnetix.de> References: <446C0A9D.6010509@xs4all.nl> <200605181036.k4IAagB8004732@lurza.secnetix.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.2.0 (GTK+ 2.8.17; i386-portbld-freebsd6.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: olli@lurza.secnetix.de Subject: Re: High Definition Audio driver X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 13:30:02 -0000 On Thu, 18 May 2006 12:36:42 +0200 (CEST) Oliver Fromme wrote: > Hans Nieser wrote: > > Norberto Meijome wrote: > > > On Wed, 17 May 2006 15:45:15 +0700 > > > "Angka H. K." wrote: > > > > > > > Please make it work > > > > I'll be very hapy to test it > > > > > > same here - thanks a lot Stephane! :) > > > B > > > > Here's another "me too" :) > > And while you are waiting for the driver to arrive, you > can use 4front's OSS driver from www.opensound.com. > They support various chips in HDA mode (including the > intel ICH* and nForce) on FreeBSD. It's not open-source, > but at least it's free for personal use. I'm glad it work for your Oliver - I'm in the same boat as Hans N and **MANY** that can't get the HDA sound card to work with the OSS drivers due to serious issues (well, it panics :) ). shared interrupts, and I can't figure out WHAT it's sharing it's interrupts with ... :-/ the next item in my oss to-do (whenever I get around to get back into testing it) is to try and older version of the oss driver - it seems the latest one is more prone to problems. beto From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 22 14:26:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AFBF16A7A1; Mon, 22 May 2006 14:26:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from smtp-mclean.mitre.org (smtpproxy2.mitre.org [192.80.55.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 619E243D4C; Mon, 22 May 2006 14:26:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from smtp-mclean.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with SMTP id k4MEPwBY010658; Mon, 22 May 2006 10:25:58 -0400 Received: from smtp-mclean.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DF911BD7A; Mon, 22 May 2006 10:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from IMCFE1.MITRE.ORG (imcfe1.mitre.org [129.83.29.3]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k4MEPrHS010551; Mon, 22 May 2006 10:25:53 -0400 Received: from IMCSRV2.MITRE.ORG ([129.83.20.164]) by IMCFE1.MITRE.ORG with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 22 May 2006 10:25:52 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 10:25:51 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards thread-index: AcZ799P1f+7LTINZTiysE1td97zXngBs35rQ From: "Andresen, Jason" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2006 14:25:52.0902 (UTC) FILETIME=[A17FBA60:01C67DAB] Cc: Subject: RE: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 14:26:15 -0000 >From: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org=20 >[mailto:owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Yuriy Tsibizov >Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 6:22 AM >To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org; freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org >Cc: Alexander Leidinger >Subject: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards > >This driver can replace emu10k1 driver. Older version of this >driver was available from ports (audio/emu10kx). While I'm not in earshot of my system, it did compile and load cleanly for my SB Live! Value card: (19 ~/emu10kx-module): cat /dev/emu10kx0 FreeBSD EMU10Kx Audio Driver Hardware resource usage: DSP General Purpose Registers: 38 used, 256 total DSP Instruction Registers: 54 used, 512 total Card supports AC97 codec, SBLive! DSP code Installed devices: EMU10Kx DSP FRONT PCM Interface on pcm0 EMU10Kx DSP REAR PCM Interface on pcm1 EMU10Kx MIDI Interface On-card connector on midi0 IR reciever MIDI events disabled From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 01:00:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5742416A432; Tue, 23 May 2006 01:00:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from conrads@cox.net) Received: from eastrmmtao02.cox.net (eastrmmtao02.cox.net [68.230.240.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DADE43D46; Tue, 23 May 2006 01:00:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from conrads@cox.net) Received: from serene.no-ip.org ([72.200.25.154]) by eastrmmtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.01 201-2131-130-101-20060113) with ESMTP id <20060523010018.LEOS15470.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@serene.no-ip.org>; Mon, 22 May 2006 21:00:18 -0400 Received: from serene.no-ip.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by serene.no-ip.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k4N109pg084688; Mon, 22 May 2006 20:00:13 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads@cox.net) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 20:00:01 -0500 From: "Conrad J. Sabatier" To: Yuriy Tsibizov Message-ID: <20060522200001.7245a07f@serene.no-ip.org> In-Reply-To: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> References: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> Organization: A Rag-Tag Band of Drug-Crazed Hippies X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.2.0 (GTK+ 2.8.17; amd64-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, Leidinger , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Alexander Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 01:00:22 -0000 On Sat, 20 May 2006 14:22:08 +0400 (MSD), Yuriy Tsibizov wrote: > This driver can replace emu10k1 driver. Older version of this > driver was available from ports (audio/emu10kx). [snipped for brevity ] Talk about uncanny timing! I've been thinking of replacing my soundcard for a while now. This looks pretty exciting, especially the MIDI support. Which of the Creative cards would you recommend as "best"? I'd love to try this! -- Conrad J. Sabatier -- "In Unix veritas" From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 06:36:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49BFE16A423; Tue, 23 May 2006 06:36:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Yuriy.Tsibizov@gfk.ru) Received: from mx.gfk.ru (mx.gfk.ru [84.21.231.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6285543D48; Tue, 23 May 2006 06:36:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Yuriy.Tsibizov@gfk.ru) Received: from demon.hhp.local by mx.gfk.ru (MDaemon.PRO.v8.1.4.R) with ESMTP id md50000234368.msg; Tue, 23 May 2006 10:36:34 +0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:36:29 +0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards thread-index: AcZ+BFLdXcgTxU4nQkiiU9/j9k4uZAAKkXBQ From: "Yuriy Tsibizov" To: "Conrad J. Sabatier" X-Spam-Processed: mx.gfk.ru, Tue, 23 May 2006 10:36:34 +0400 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 10.0.0.8 X-Return-Path: Yuriy.Tsibizov@gfk.ru X-MDAV-Processed: mx.gfk.ru, Tue, 23 May 2006 10:36:35 +0400 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 06:36:45 -0000 > > This driver can replace emu10k1 driver. Older version of this > > driver was available from ports (audio/emu10kx). >=20 > [snipped for brevity ] >=20 > Talk about uncanny timing! I've been thinking of replacing my > soundcard for a while now. This looks pretty exciting, especially the > MIDI support. "evennewermidi" patch needs someone to take care about it - it was not = updated for two years! >=20 > Which of the Creative cards would you recommend as "best"? =20 > I'd love to > try this! I'm not shure what you can find in your local shops... "Audigy 4 Pro" = (SB0380), "Audigy 2 Value" (SB0400) and "Audigy 4" (SB0610) should be possible to find new.=20 You may have to ask salesperson let you look at sound card chipset - it = should start with "CA"=20 and should not end on "-DAT". X-Fi series seems to use another DSP, they will not work. Yuriy. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 12:27:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3B6816A4F2; Tue, 23 May 2006 12:27:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4320843D5A; Tue, 23 May 2006 12:27:02 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3A58208C; Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CB92089; Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id AC79B33CAD; Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:58 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Yuriy Tsibizov References: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> (Yuriy Tsibizov's message of "Sat, 20 May 2006 14:22:08 +0400 (MSD)") Message-ID: <86fyj1kju5.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 12:27:32 -0000 Yuriy Tsibizov writes: > 2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into OSS > mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's sysctl context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 15:12:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05C316A892; Tue, 23 May 2006 15:12:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (jojo.ms-net.de [84.16.236.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D134843D77; Tue, 23 May 2006 15:12:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (p54A5DDDE.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.221.222]) (authenticated bits=0) by www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k4NF0mKP019716; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:00:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Magellan.Leidinger.net (Magellan.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.1]) by Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k4NFCcMl020009; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:12:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 17:12:38 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?UTF-8?B?U23DuHJncmF2?=) Message-ID: <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: <86fyj1kju5.fsf@xps.des.no> References: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> <86fyj1kju5.fsf@xps.des.no> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.2.0 (GTK+ 2.8.17; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 15:12:55 -0000 Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:58 +0200): > Yuriy Tsibizov writes: > > 2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into OSS > > mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. > > That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's sysctl > context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) This was based upon a suggestion by me. We want to get rid of most sound related syscalls (at least those which belong into the realm of the user, and not into the realm of the administrator). Until we have an application and an interface, we have to life with the sysctls, but to let the users know that this is not an interface but a temporary workaround, it's put into the debug MIB. I hope we will not ship 7.0-RELEASE with any such sysctl (any help appreciated). Bye, Alexander. -- Selling GoodYear Eagle F1 235/40ZR18, 2x 4mm + 2x 5mm, ~150 EUR you have to pick it up between Germany/Saarland and Luxembourg/Capellen http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 15:22:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C8F16A53B; Tue, 23 May 2006 15:22:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EBEE43D45; Tue, 23 May 2006 15:22:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD5EE2089; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:22:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0F22087; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:22:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 88C0033CAD; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:22:12 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Alexander Leidinger References: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> <86fyj1kju5.fsf@xps.des.no> <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 17:22:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> (Alexander Leidinger's message of "Tue, 23 May 2006 17:12:38 +0200") Message-ID: <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 15:22:21 -0000 Alexander Leidinger writes: > Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:58 +02= 00): > > Yuriy Tsibizov writes: > > > 2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into OSS > > > mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. > > That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's sysctl > > context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) > This was based upon a suggestion by me. We want to get rid of most > sound related syscalls (at least those which belong into the realm of > the user, and not into the realm of the administrator). Until we have > an application and an interface, we have to life with the sysctls, but > to let the users know that this is not an interface but a temporary > workaround, it's put into the debug MIB. I hope we will not ship > 7.0-RELEASE with any such sysctl (any help appreciated). Regardless, device-specific sysctl knobs belong in the individual device's sysctl context, which automatically places them in the correct location in the dev tree and automatically destroys them when the device is destroyed. Please do not create further precedent for breaking this rule, no matter how good your intentions. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 15:53:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3892A16A51E; Tue, 23 May 2006 15:53:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (jojo.ms-net.de [84.16.236.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83CC743D49; Tue, 23 May 2006 15:53:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (p54A5DDDE.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.221.222]) (authenticated bits=0) by www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k4NFfFLb019881; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:41:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Magellan.Leidinger.net (Magellan.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.1]) by Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k4NFr6WU025828; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:53:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 17:53:06 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?UTF-8?B?U23DuHJncmF2?=) Message-ID: <20060523175306.1838e8a6@Magellan.Leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> References: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> <86fyj1kju5.fsf@xps.des.no> <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.2.0 (GTK+ 2.8.17; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 15:53:15 -0000 Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 17:22:12 +0200): > Alexander Leidinger writes: > > Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:58 +0200): > > > Yuriy Tsibizov writes: > > > > 2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into OSS > > > > mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. > > > That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's sysctl > > > context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) > > This was based upon a suggestion by me. We want to get rid of most > > sound related syscalls (at least those which belong into the realm of > > the user, and not into the realm of the administrator). Until we have > > an application and an interface, we have to life with the sysctls, but > > to let the users know that this is not an interface but a temporary > > workaround, it's put into the debug MIB. I hope we will not ship > > 7.0-RELEASE with any such sysctl (any help appreciated). > > Regardless, device-specific sysctl knobs belong in the individual > device's sysctl context, which automatically places them in the > correct location in the dev tree and automatically destroys them when > the device is destroyed. Please do not create further precedent for > breaking this rule, no matter how good your intentions. We already have stuff in the debug MIB and there are even ideas floating around which suggest to mirror the structure of the non-debug MIB's under the debug MIB. So I don't see it go away. Any suggestions "how to do it right" while being located in the debug MIB? Bye, Alexander. -- Selling GoodYear Eagle F1 235/40ZR18, 2x 4mm + 2x 5mm, ~150 EUR you have to pick it up between Germany/Saarland and Luxembourg/Capellen http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 16:08:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A69216A4A0; Tue, 23 May 2006 16:08:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A905B43D49; Tue, 23 May 2006 16:08:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [10.10.3.185] ([69.15.205.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NG8OWc009096; Tue, 23 May 2006 10:08:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:08:15 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060206 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> <86fyj1kju5.fsf@xps.des.no> <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> In-Reply-To: <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:08:41 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Alexander Leidinger writes: > >>Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:58 +0200): >> >>>Yuriy Tsibizov writes: >>> >>>>2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into OSS >>>>mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. >>> >>>That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's sysctl >>>context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) >> >>This was based upon a suggestion by me. We want to get rid of most >>sound related syscalls (at least those which belong into the realm of >>the user, and not into the realm of the administrator). Until we have >>an application and an interface, we have to life with the sysctls, but >>to let the users know that this is not an interface but a temporary >>workaround, it's put into the debug MIB. I hope we will not ship >>7.0-RELEASE with any such sysctl (any help appreciated). > > > Regardless, device-specific sysctl knobs belong in the individual > device's sysctl context, which automatically places them in the > correct location in the dev tree and automatically destroys them when > the device is destroyed. Please do not create further precedent for > breaking this rule, no matter how good your intentions. > > DES The problem is that Alexander wants these sysctls to only be temporary. Recall that big thread from a month or two ago about treating sysctls as an API, and how there was heavy disagreement over how to define "stable" sysctls that apps could depend on? If a temporary set of sysctls get put under the dev tree, then it risks becoming permanent, which is not what Alexander wants. So, either we need to decide what parts of the sysctl to define as stable, like I asked for in the previous thread, or we need to pretend that it's not a problem that we should address, and let you and Alexander continue to argue over the 'correct place'. Scott From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 16:18:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC44F16AA1B; Tue, 23 May 2006 16:18:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from smtp-bedford.mitre.org (smtpproxy1.mitre.org [192.160.51.76]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F64843D45; Tue, 23 May 2006 16:18:31 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jandrese@mitre.org) Received: from smtp-bedford.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.6) with SMTP id k4NGIUOI022364; Tue, 23 May 2006 12:18:30 -0400 Received: from smtp-bedford.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADDEABF7B; Tue, 23 May 2006 12:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imcfe2.MITRE.ORG (imcfe2.mitre.org [129.83.29.4]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k4NGIUZK022339; Tue, 23 May 2006 12:18:30 -0400 Received: from IMCSRV2.MITRE.ORG ([129.83.20.164]) by imcfe2.MITRE.ORG with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 23 May 2006 12:18:30 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 12:18:22 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards thread-index: AcZ+e3rf6LYUeNbLS3+PGsSroyuB4wAB3XWg From: "Andresen, Jason" To: "Alexander Leidinger" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2006 16:18:30.0073 (UTC) FILETIME=[877FF290:01C67E84] Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:18:35 -0000 I ran some tests with my SB Live! Value last night. Results: Sound volume is very low as per your comment. If I turn the mixer all the way up I can get an acceptable sound level out of it, but "loud" is right out. Honestly, I was expecting it to be low like the old emu10kx driver, but it appears to be even lower than that. Compared to Windows the sound volume is extremely low. The last ~600ms of the sound is still cut off. Short sounds don't play at all. I'm not sure this is a sound driver issue because it's persisted across three different revisions of the driver now (the emu10k1 in the kernel, existing emu10kx in the ports, and your experimental emu10kx port). There have been various workarounds for this problem, but none of them ever seem to make it into the sources permanently. Sound quality is excellent. I'm not hearing any crackling or popping or anything to suggest any misplaced bits. I don't have rear speakers attached to my system however, so that part remains untested. My card doesn't have SPDIF support AFAIK. =20 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 17:15:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06FF616A742; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:15:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: from hydrogen.funkthat.com (gate.funkthat.com [69.17.45.168]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840D643D66; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:15:50 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: from hydrogen.funkthat.com (afsqwr787o01uhg2@localhost.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]) by hydrogen.funkthat.com (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k4NHFif2048777; Tue, 23 May 2006 10:15:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@hydrogen.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.funkthat.com (8.13.4/8.13.3/Submit) id k4NHFfnJ048776; Tue, 23 May 2006 10:15:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:15:40 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Scott Long Message-ID: <20060523171540.GS770@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Scott Long , Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger , freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> <86fyj1kju5.fsf@xps.des.no> <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE-p6 i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ X-Resume: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/resume.html Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 17:16:04 -0000 Scott Long wrote this message on Tue, May 23, 2006 at 10:08 -0600: > Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > >Alexander Leidinger writes: > > > >>Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:58 > >>+0200): > >> > >>>Yuriy Tsibizov writes: > >>> > >>>>2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into OSS > >>>>mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. > >>> > >>>That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's sysctl > >>>context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) > >> > >>This was based upon a suggestion by me. We want to get rid of most > >>sound related syscalls (at least those which belong into the realm of > >>the user, and not into the realm of the administrator). Until we have > >>an application and an interface, we have to life with the sysctls, but > >>to let the users know that this is not an interface but a temporary > >>workaround, it's put into the debug MIB. I hope we will not ship > >>7.0-RELEASE with any such sysctl (any help appreciated). > > > > > >Regardless, device-specific sysctl knobs belong in the individual > >device's sysctl context, which automatically places them in the > >correct location in the dev tree and automatically destroys them when > >the device is destroyed. Please do not create further precedent for > >breaking this rule, no matter how good your intentions. > > > >DES > > The problem is that Alexander wants these sysctls to only be temporary. > Recall that big thread from a month or two ago about treating sysctls > as an API, and how there was heavy disagreement over how to define > "stable" sysctls that apps could depend on? If a temporary set of > sysctls get put under the dev tree, then it risks becoming permanent, > which is not what Alexander wants. So, either we need to decide what > parts of the sysctl to define as stable, like I asked for in the > previous thread, or we need to pretend that it's not a problem that we > should address, and let you and Alexander continue to argue over the > 'correct place'. Having touched debug a year or two back (witness renaming).. even sysctl's in the debug tree are standard.. so simply putting them in debug doesn't mean people will understand that they may go away in the future... debug does not imply temporary or stable... heck, some would argue the debug.sizeof is a VERY stable part of the api... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 17:22:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74CB316A79F; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:22:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7859A43D62; Tue, 23 May 2006 17:22:36 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [IPv6:::1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NHM6lv092527; Tue, 23 May 2006 11:22:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 11:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20060523.112205.115998971.imp@bsdimp.com> To: scottl@samsco.org From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> References: <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, des@des.no, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 17:22:42 -0000 From: Scott Long Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:08:15 -0600 > Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > > Alexander Leidinger writes: > > = > >>Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:= 58 +0200): > >> > >>>Yuriy Tsibizov writes: > >>> > >>>>2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into OSS > >>>>mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. > >>> > >>>That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's sys= ctl > >>>context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) > >> > >>This was based upon a suggestion by me. We want to get rid of most > >>sound related syscalls (at least those which belong into the realm = of > >>the user, and not into the realm of the administrator). Until we ha= ve > >>an application and an interface, we have to life with the sysctls, = but > >>to let the users know that this is not an interface but a temporary= > >>workaround, it's put into the debug MIB. I hope we will not ship > >>7.0-RELEASE with any such sysctl (any help appreciated). > > = > > = > > Regardless, device-specific sysctl knobs belong in the individual > > device's sysctl context, which automatically places them in the > > correct location in the dev tree and automatically destroys them wh= en > > the device is destroyed. Please do not create further precedent fo= r > > breaking this rule, no matter how good your intentions. > > = > > DES > = > The problem is that Alexander wants these sysctls to only be temporar= y. > Recall that big thread from a month or two ago about treating sysctls= > as an API, and how there was heavy disagreement over how to define > "stable" sysctls that apps could depend on? If a temporary set of = > sysctls get put under the dev tree, then it risks becoming permanent,= > which is not what Alexander wants. So, either we need to decide what= > parts of the sysctl to define as stable, like I asked for in the = > previous thread, or we need to pretend that it's not a problem that w= e > should address, and let you and Alexander continue to argue over the > 'correct place'. Then put them under the right place, but create a subtree that's "tmp" In general, drivers should avoid using the debug.* space. Warner From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 18:36:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E09F016A578; Tue, 23 May 2006 18:36:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF33D43D60; Tue, 23 May 2006 18:36:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [10.10.3.185] ([69.15.205.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NIaRT1010122; Tue, 23 May 2006 12:36:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <44735620.9080403@samsco.org> Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 12:36:16 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060206 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh References: <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> <20060523.112205.115998971.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20060523.112205.115998971.imp@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, des@des.no, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 18:36:53 -0000 Warner Losh wrote: > From: Scott Long > Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards > Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:08:15 -0600 > > >>Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >> >>>Alexander Leidinger writes: >>> >>> >>>>Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:58 +0200): >>>> >>>> >>>>>Yuriy Tsibizov writes: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into OSS >>>>>>mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. >>>>> >>>>>That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's sysctl >>>>>context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) >>>> >>>>This was based upon a suggestion by me. We want to get rid of most >>>>sound related syscalls (at least those which belong into the realm of >>>>the user, and not into the realm of the administrator). Until we have >>>>an application and an interface, we have to life with the sysctls, but >>>>to let the users know that this is not an interface but a temporary >>>>workaround, it's put into the debug MIB. I hope we will not ship >>>>7.0-RELEASE with any such sysctl (any help appreciated). >>> >>> >>>Regardless, device-specific sysctl knobs belong in the individual >>>device's sysctl context, which automatically places them in the >>>correct location in the dev tree and automatically destroys them when >>>the device is destroyed. Please do not create further precedent for >>>breaking this rule, no matter how good your intentions. >>> >>>DES >> >>The problem is that Alexander wants these sysctls to only be temporary. >>Recall that big thread from a month or two ago about treating sysctls >>as an API, and how there was heavy disagreement over how to define >>"stable" sysctls that apps could depend on? If a temporary set of >>sysctls get put under the dev tree, then it risks becoming permanent, >>which is not what Alexander wants. So, either we need to decide what >>parts of the sysctl to define as stable, like I asked for in the >>previous thread, or we need to pretend that it's not a problem that we >>should address, and let you and Alexander continue to argue over the >>'correct place'. > > > Then put them under the right place, but create a subtree that's "tmp" > > In general, drivers should avoid using the debug.* space. > > Warner But that's the problem. You just announced a rule that is in conflict with rules that others have announced. All I asked for was for the rules to be decided on and published, and I got pushback from people who said either that all sysctls are part of the API, or that no rules should exist and that everyone should just use careful judgement, so long as their judgement is correct. Both of these stances are absurd. Scott From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 19:26:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90D816AA35; Tue, 23 May 2006 19:26:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D17643D62; Tue, 23 May 2006 19:26:13 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [IPv6:::1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NJNtGB094018; Tue, 23 May 2006 13:23:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 13:23:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20060523.132355.21838169.imp@bsdimp.com> To: scottl@samsco.org From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <44735620.9080403@samsco.org> References: <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> <20060523.112205.115998971.imp@bsdimp.com> <44735620.9080403@samsco.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, des@des.no, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 19:26:27 -0000 From: Scott Long Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 12:36:16 -0600 > Warner Losh wrote: > > From: Scott Long > > Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound ca= rds > > Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:08:15 -0600 > > = > > = > >>Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > >> > >>>Alexander Leidinger writes: > >>> > >>> > >>>>Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 14:2= 6:58 +0200): > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Yuriy Tsibizov writes: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into OS= S > >>>>>>mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. > >>>>> > >>>>>That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's s= ysctl > >>>>>context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) > >>>> > >>>>This was based upon a suggestion by me. We want to get rid of mos= t > >>>>sound related syscalls (at least those which belong into the real= m of > >>>>the user, and not into the realm of the administrator). Until we = have > >>>>an application and an interface, we have to life with the sysctls= , but > >>>>to let the users know that this is not an interface but a tempora= ry > >>>>workaround, it's put into the debug MIB. I hope we will not ship > >>>>7.0-RELEASE with any such sysctl (any help appreciated). > >>> > >>> > >>>Regardless, device-specific sysctl knobs belong in the individual > >>>device's sysctl context, which automatically places them in the > >>>correct location in the dev tree and automatically destroys them w= hen > >>>the device is destroyed. Please do not create further precedent f= or > >>>breaking this rule, no matter how good your intentions. > >>> > >>>DES > >> > >>The problem is that Alexander wants these sysctls to only be tempor= ary. > >>Recall that big thread from a month or two ago about treating sysct= ls > >>as an API, and how there was heavy disagreement over how to define > >>"stable" sysctls that apps could depend on? If a temporary set of = > >>sysctls get put under the dev tree, then it risks becoming permanen= t, > >>which is not what Alexander wants. So, either we need to decide wh= at > >>parts of the sysctl to define as stable, like I asked for in the = > >>previous thread, or we need to pretend that it's not a problem that= we > >>should address, and let you and Alexander continue to argue over th= e > >>'correct place'. > > = > > = > > Then put them under the right place, but create a subtree that's "t= mp" > > = > > In general, drivers should avoid using the debug.* space. > > = > > Warner > = > But that's the problem. You just announced a rule that is in conflic= t > with rules that others have announced. All I asked for was for the = > rules to be decided on and published, and I got pushback from people > who said either that all sysctls are part of the API, or that no rule= s > should exist and that everyone should just use careful judgement, so > long as their judgement is correct. Both of these stances are absurd= .= Drivers have no business using debug.* anymore. They should migrate to the new interface that has already been in use, like DES said. Putting them in debug* doesn't make them any more or less permanant. The driver should document what is published and isn't published (approved, etc) in its man page. In this case, adding a list of the 'blessed' sysctls to the appropriate man page with a warning that says that all others are for the convenience of the driver writer and may disapper would solve the problem. Putting them under 'temp' or 'tmp' would also be a strong hint, but isn't completely necessary. Warner From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 19:46:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6559616A45D; Tue, 23 May 2006 19:46:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0180343D49; Tue, 23 May 2006 19:46:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [IPv6:::1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NJjfBT094279; Tue, 23 May 2006 13:45:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 13:45:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20060523.134540.28877846.imp@bsdimp.com> To: scottl@samsco.org From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <20060523.132355.21838169.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <20060523.112205.115998971.imp@bsdimp.com> <44735620.9080403@samsco.org> <20060523.132355.21838169.imp@bsdimp.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, des@des.no, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, Alexander@Leidinger.net Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 19:46:46 -0000 From: Warner Losh Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 13:23:55 -0600 (MDT) > From: Scott Long > Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound card= s > Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 12:36:16 -0600 > = > > Warner Losh wrote: > > > From: Scott Long > > > Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound = cards > > > Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:08:15 -0600 > > > = > > > = > > >>Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > > >> > > >>>Alexander Leidinger writes: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 14= :26:58 +0200): > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>Yuriy Tsibizov writes: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into = OSS > > >>>>>>mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's= sysctl > > >>>>>context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) > > >>>> > > >>>>This was based upon a suggestion by me. We want to get rid of m= ost > > >>>>sound related syscalls (at least those which belong into the re= alm of > > >>>>the user, and not into the realm of the administrator). Until w= e have > > >>>>an application and an interface, we have to life with the sysct= ls, but > > >>>>to let the users know that this is not an interface but a tempo= rary > > >>>>workaround, it's put into the debug MIB. I hope we will not shi= p > > >>>>7.0-RELEASE with any such sysctl (any help appreciated). > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Regardless, device-specific sysctl knobs belong in the individua= l > > >>>device's sysctl context, which automatically places them in the > > >>>correct location in the dev tree and automatically destroys them= when > > >>>the device is destroyed. Please do not create further precedent= for > > >>>breaking this rule, no matter how good your intentions. > > >>> > > >>>DES > > >> > > >>The problem is that Alexander wants these sysctls to only be temp= orary. > > >>Recall that big thread from a month or two ago about treating sys= ctls > > >>as an API, and how there was heavy disagreement over how to defin= e > > >>"stable" sysctls that apps could depend on? If a temporary set o= f = > > >>sysctls get put under the dev tree, then it risks becoming perman= ent, > > >>which is not what Alexander wants. So, either we need to decide = what > > >>parts of the sysctl to define as stable, like I asked for in the = > > >>previous thread, or we need to pretend that it's not a problem th= at we > > >>should address, and let you and Alexander continue to argue over = the > > >>'correct place'. > > > = > > > = > > > Then put them under the right place, but create a subtree that's = "tmp" > > > = > > > In general, drivers should avoid using the debug.* space. > > > = > > > Warner > > = > > But that's the problem. You just announced a rule that is in confl= ict > > with rules that others have announced. All I asked for was for the= = > > rules to be decided on and published, and I got pushback from peopl= e > > who said either that all sysctls are part of the API, or that no ru= les > > should exist and that everyone should just use careful judgement, s= o > > long as their judgement is correct. Both of these stances are absu= rd. > = > Drivers have no business using debug.* anymore. They should migrate > to the new interface that has already been in use, like DES said. > Putting them in debug* doesn't make them any more or less permanant. > The driver should document what is published and isn't published > (approved, etc) in its man page. In this case, adding a list of the > 'blessed' sysctls to the appropriate man page with a warning that say= s > that all others are for the convenience of the driver writer and may > disapper would solve the problem. Putting them under 'temp' or 'tmp'= > would also be a strong hint, but isn't completely necessary. I guess the rules that I throught were agreed to when DES did his sysctl additions to the newbus framework were: o All new driver sysctls should be attached to the node provided by that framework. o Existing drivers were expected to migrate to that new framework, providing compatibility goo if necessary for real programs. What should have been added was: o Drivers should document their sysctl interface in the man page and indicate which parts of the interface are temporary in nature and which parts are a committed part of the API. While all sysctls could be considered to be part of the API, not all sysctls are created equally. There are some that are the well documented place to get information. There are some that are the well used, but underdocumented place to get information. There are many that are there where information can be obtained, but few, if any, consumers use it. For the first two classes, we need to be careful to avoid gratuitous api changes. For the last class, we have traditionally had the freedom to make changes for the convenience of the developer. The sysctls which were proposed for debug.emu10k* clearly fall into the last category and as long as we document them as such, it should be OK to change our minds later. Somewhere between the two extremes that you pointed out is where we should meet on consensus. We should start with where the domain experts thought the consensus arrived at last time and make changes from there to reach a new consensus, rather than just invent something totally new an random. Anyway, that just my two cents. Warner From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 19:48:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE69416A423; Tue, 23 May 2006 19:48:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A67543D4C; Tue, 23 May 2006 19:48:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [10.10.3.185] ([69.15.205.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NJlYxo010572; Tue, 23 May 2006 13:47:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <447366CD.7010301@samsco.org> Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 13:47:25 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060206 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh References: <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> <20060523.112205.115998971.imp@bsdimp.com> <44735620.9080403@samsco.org> <20060523.132355.21838169.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20060523.132355.21838169.imp@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, des@des.no, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 19:49:09 -0000 Warner Losh wrote: > From: Scott Long > Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards > Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 12:36:16 -0600 > > >>Warner Losh wrote: >> >>>From: Scott Long >>>Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards >>>Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:08:15 -0600 >>> >>> >>> >>>>Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Alexander Leidinger writes: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Quoting des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav) (Tue, 23 May 2006 14:26:58 +0200): >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Yuriy Tsibizov writes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>2. Complete mixer support. Some controls that can't fit into OSS >>>>>>>>mixer are available as sysctl under debug.emu10kxX. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That is not the correct place for it. Please use the device's sysctl >>>>>>>context (obtained with device_get_sysctl_ctx()) >>>>>> >>>>>>This was based upon a suggestion by me. We want to get rid of most >>>>>>sound related syscalls (at least those which belong into the realm of >>>>>>the user, and not into the realm of the administrator). Until we have >>>>>>an application and an interface, we have to life with the sysctls, but >>>>>>to let the users know that this is not an interface but a temporary >>>>>>workaround, it's put into the debug MIB. I hope we will not ship >>>>>>7.0-RELEASE with any such sysctl (any help appreciated). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Regardless, device-specific sysctl knobs belong in the individual >>>>>device's sysctl context, which automatically places them in the >>>>>correct location in the dev tree and automatically destroys them when >>>>>the device is destroyed. Please do not create further precedent for >>>>>breaking this rule, no matter how good your intentions. >>>>> >>>>>DES >>>> >>>>The problem is that Alexander wants these sysctls to only be temporary. >>>>Recall that big thread from a month or two ago about treating sysctls >>>>as an API, and how there was heavy disagreement over how to define >>>>"stable" sysctls that apps could depend on? If a temporary set of >>>>sysctls get put under the dev tree, then it risks becoming permanent, >>>>which is not what Alexander wants. So, either we need to decide what >>>>parts of the sysctl to define as stable, like I asked for in the >>>>previous thread, or we need to pretend that it's not a problem that we >>>>should address, and let you and Alexander continue to argue over the >>>>'correct place'. >>> >>> >>>Then put them under the right place, but create a subtree that's "tmp" >>> >>>In general, drivers should avoid using the debug.* space. >>> >>>Warner >> >>But that's the problem. You just announced a rule that is in conflict >>with rules that others have announced. All I asked for was for the >>rules to be decided on and published, and I got pushback from people >>who said either that all sysctls are part of the API, or that no rules >>should exist and that everyone should just use careful judgement, so >>long as their judgement is correct. Both of these stances are absurd. > > > Drivers have no business using debug.* anymore. They should migrate > to the new interface that has already been in use, like DES said. > Putting them in debug* doesn't make them any more or less permanant. > The driver should document what is published and isn't published > (approved, etc) in its man page. In this case, adding a list of the > 'blessed' sysctls to the appropriate man page with a warning that says > that all others are for the convenience of the driver writer and may > disapper would solve the problem. Putting them under 'temp' or 'tmp' > would also be a strong hint, but isn't completely necessary. > > Warner That's fine (and I do agree with the content of you are saying), but that doesn't de-conflict the opposite advice that others have been giving. I'd really like to see namespaces and name prefixes defined that have stable/unstable meaning. I dropped this due to the very vocal opposition at the time. Scott From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 20:56:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7021E16AE96; Tue, 23 May 2006 20:56:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E2FC43D8C; Tue, 23 May 2006 20:55:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [IPv6:::1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NKqMxI095157; Tue, 23 May 2006 14:52:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 14:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20060523.145222.88564922.imp@bsdimp.com> To: scottl@samsco.org From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <447366CD.7010301@samsco.org> References: <44735620.9080403@samsco.org> <20060523.132355.21838169.imp@bsdimp.com> <447366CD.7010301@samsco.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, des@des.no, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 20:56:49 -0000 > giving. I'd really like to see namespaces and name prefixes defined > that have stable/unstable meaning. I dropped this due to the very > vocal opposition at the time. Sounds like a good thing to me. If we document this (and the bit that I sent in my other email) in sysctl(8), or somewhere more appropriate, then I think we can do this. I propose that we put a single _ in front of those sysctls that the author knows will go away and that no code should be written to use them. this would give the unstable namespace that you want and would be consistant with what _foo() functions are for. Not sure if that means everything else is permanant, however. I'm hoping this doesn't result in a bikeshed of doom. Warner From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 21:15:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 016F616B0D8; Tue, 23 May 2006 21:15:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 169E743D6B; Tue, 23 May 2006 21:15:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EC242088; Tue, 23 May 2006 23:15:19 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A282087; Tue, 23 May 2006 23:15:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DC25433CAD; Tue, 23 May 2006 23:15:18 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Scott Long References: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> <86fyj1kju5.fsf@xps.des.no> <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 23:15:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> (Scott Long's message of "Tue, 23 May 2006 10:08:15 -0600") Message-ID: <864pzgo32x.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 21:15:42 -0000 Scott Long writes: > The problem is that Alexander wants these sysctls to only be temporary. Temporary measures have a way of becoming permanent, and I can see no good reason for creating precedent for bad coding practices. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 21:22:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E55116B2B8; Tue, 23 May 2006 21:22:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 949D243D48; Tue, 23 May 2006 21:22:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [10.10.3.185] ([69.15.205.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NLMAv0011154; Tue, 23 May 2006 15:22:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <44737CFA.8070105@samsco.org> Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 15:22:02 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060206 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh References: <44735620.9080403@samsco.org> <20060523.132355.21838169.imp@bsdimp.com> <447366CD.7010301@samsco.org> <20060523.145222.88564922.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20060523.145222.88564922.imp@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, des@des.no, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 21:22:28 -0000 Warner Losh wrote: >>giving. I'd really like to see namespaces and name prefixes defined >>that have stable/unstable meaning. I dropped this due to the very >>vocal opposition at the time. > > > Sounds like a good thing to me. If we document this (and the bit that > I sent in my other email) in sysctl(8), or somewhere more appropriate, > then I think we can do this. I propose that we put a single _ in > front of those sysctls that the author knows will go away and that no > code should be written to use them. this would give the unstable > namespace that you want and would be consistant with what _foo() > functions are for. Not sure if that means everything else is > permanant, however. I'm hoping this doesn't result in a bikeshed of > doom. > > Warner Sounds good. I guess what this means is that the entire sysctl namespace should be considered stable except for a set of defined areas. These defined areas will either be specifically designated and documented, or will have a '_' prefixing some element of their node name. Developers still have a responsibility to put proper thought into what they add into the stable namespace, and this space may be subject to change while the tree is marked "-CURRENT". However, once it is marked "-STABLE", it is stable and can only be changed by following appropriate deprecation procedures. For the purposes of documentation, it should be described that there are actually 3 types of nodes. There are stable, statically named nodes that will always exist on a running system. There are unstable, statically named nodes that may or may not exist from one release to another. And there are dynamic nodes that will exist depending on the devices, modules, and drivers present, and that these nodes may be stable or unstable depending on other attributes of the node name. Scott From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 21:25:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A72AC16B308; Tue, 23 May 2006 21:25:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C831143D7C; Tue, 23 May 2006 21:25:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from [10.10.3.185] ([69.15.205.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NLP11P011172; Tue, 23 May 2006 15:25:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Message-ID: <44737DA5.7010301@samsco.org> Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 15:24:53 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060206 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= References: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> <86fyj1kju5.fsf@xps.des.no> <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> <864pzgo32x.fsf@xps.des.no> In-Reply-To: <864pzgo32x.fsf@xps.des.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 21:25:18 -0000 Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Scott Long writes: > >>The problem is that Alexander wants these sysctls to only be temporary. > > > Temporary measures have a way of becoming permanent, and I can see no > good reason for creating precedent for bad coding practices. > > DES And the recommendation that you are making to him will result in compulsory assignment to permanence of his work. See the exchange in progress between Warner and I. Scott From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 21:58:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8872016A988; Tue, 23 May 2006 21:58:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289FF43D45; Tue, 23 May 2006 21:58:35 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [IPv6:::1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NLu7SO095905; Tue, 23 May 2006 15:56:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 15:56:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20060523.155606.71179350.imp@bsdimp.com> To: scottl@samsco.org From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <20060523.134540.28877846.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <44735620.9080403@samsco.org> <20060523.132355.21838169.imp@bsdimp.com> <20060523.134540.28877846.imp@bsdimp.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org, des@des.no, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 21:58:39 -0000 This is what I'm thinking of adding to the sysctl.8 man page. Please let me know if there's a better place for it. This is indented to be the initial proposal for sysctl use by drivers, so if the results of discussions change it, I'll update. Warner Index: sysctl.8 =================================================================== RCS file: /home/imp/FreeBSD/CVS/src/sbin/sysctl/sysctl.8,v retrieving revision 1.60 diff -c -r1.60 sysctl.8 *** sysctl.8 18 Nov 2005 10:32:12 -0000 1.60 --- sysctl.8 23 May 2006 21:53:11 -0000 *************** *** 292,297 **** --- 292,311 ---- The .Fl w option has been deprecated and is silently ignored. + .Pp + Sysctl nodes provided by drivers should not be considered to be + permanant unless they are documented in the driver's man page. + Names which start with _ denote a tree or node which is considered + impermanant and should not be relied up by code elsewhere in the + system. + Driver writers should use the sysctl infrastructure provided by + .Xr device_get_sysctl_ctx 9 + and + .Xr device_get_sysctl_tree 9 + for their sysctls. + Drivers should migrate from past interfaces to this new interface, but + provide, where needed, backwards compatibility shims. + These facilities export the sysctl as dev...attribute. .Sh SEE ALSO .Xr sysctl 3 , .Xr loader.conf 5 , From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 22:09:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 663F916B6A0; Tue, 23 May 2006 22:09:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5FD843D58; Tue, 23 May 2006 22:09:47 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id E35012088; Wed, 24 May 2006 00:09:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA2792087; Wed, 24 May 2006 00:09:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A2FB133CAD; Wed, 24 May 2006 00:09:43 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: Warner Losh References: <44735620.9080403@samsco.org> <20060523.132355.21838169.imp@bsdimp.com> <20060523.134540.28877846.imp@bsdimp.com> <20060523.155606.71179350.imp@bsdimp.com> Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 00:09:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20060523.155606.71179350.imp@bsdimp.com> (Warner Losh's message of "Tue, 23 May 2006 15:56:06 -0600 (MDT)") Message-ID: <86odxomlzs.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 22:09:55 -0000 Warner Losh writes: > This is what I'm thinking of adding to the sysctl.8 man page. Makes sense to me. The last part really belongs in section 9, but I don't think we have a suitable page in section 9 to add it to. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 22:14:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1A9F16B6A8; Tue, 23 May 2006 22:14:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0DD343D9A; Tue, 23 May 2006 22:14:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [IPv6:::1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4NMCj3j096128; Tue, 23 May 2006 16:12:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:12:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20060523.161245.74655357.imp@bsdimp.com> To: des@des.no From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <86odxomlzs.fsf@xps.des.no> References: <20060523.134540.28877846.imp@bsdimp.com> <20060523.155606.71179350.imp@bsdimp.com> <86odxomlzs.fsf@xps.des.no> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 22:15:00 -0000 > Warner Losh writes: > > This is what I'm thinking of adding to the sysctl.8 man page. > > Makes sense to me. The last part really belongs in section 9, but I > don't think we have a suitable page in section 9 to add it to. Yea. I think so too, but I'm not sure where... Better here than no where. Warner From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 23 22:16:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A97B16ADAC; Tue, 23 May 2006 22:16:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cswiger@mac.com) Received: from pi.codefab.com (pi.codefab.com [199.103.21.227]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0FAC43D5A; Tue, 23 May 2006 22:15:59 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from cswiger@mac.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pi.codefab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44DB25CEF; Tue, 23 May 2006 18:15:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at codefab.com Received: from pi.codefab.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (pi.codefab.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l58NQTtbGqV6; Tue, 23 May 2006 18:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.251] (pool-68-160-242-211.ny325.east.verizon.net [68.160.242.211]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pi.codefab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C425CE2; Tue, 23 May 2006 18:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <44738998.6070400@mac.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 18:15:52 -0400 From: Chuck Swiger User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh References: <44735620.9080403@samsco.org> <20060523.132355.21838169.imp@bsdimp.com> <20060523.134540.28877846.imp@bsdimp.com> <20060523.155606.71179350.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20060523.155606.71179350.imp@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 22:16:05 -0000 Warner Losh wrote: > This is what I'm thinking of adding to the sysctl.8 man page. Please > let me know if there's a better place for it. This is indented to be > the initial proposal for sysctl use by drivers, so if the results of > discussions change it, I'll update. > This seems to be a good starting point, in that the convention seems reasonable and unsurprising. It might be nice to have some discussion of API stability and the process for depreciating stable interfaces somewhere, but that probably belongs in the Handbook or perhaps in intro(9). Please check spelling: > + permanant unless they are documented in the driver's man page. > + Names which start with _ denote a tree or node which is considered > + impermanant and should not be relied up by code elsewhere in the > s/permanant/permanent/:g -- -Chuck From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 24 06:28:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3674816A41F for ; Wed, 24 May 2006 06:28:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from u_ri_p_ui@yahoo.de) Received: from smtp002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.11.33]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5EE4443D46 for ; Wed, 24 May 2006 06:28:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from u_ri_p_ui@yahoo.de) Received: (qmail 94978 invoked from network); 24 May 2006 06:28:04 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.de; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=6xAeHuUP41z+9WqJq1anHvQ5q6nq7D12WC+eFKLFikkSmCL3j4pbmDSKudzCPnllEx+PmgzeSAjj4k6vftHLt/8OZHdRyF3LjpYdN1PFLOcZTe8BqoJc/JipBoxdyUvCTud/xYTHwilbglqLAiBC6IMg8LWvRZh2fhAwX9/ZvCs= ; Received: from unknown (HELO nbeyer) (u?ri?p?ui@194.77.27.114 with login) by smtp002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2006 06:28:03 -0000 Message-ID: <004201c67efc$19291920$3605a8c0@nbeyer> From: "Uri Puivov" To: Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 08:34:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Subject: [FreeBSD 6.1-REL + Asrock K7VT4A Pro] How to use gameport/MPU401-interface of mainboard for MIDI? X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 06:28:06 -0000 Hi there, I'm using an Asrock K7VT4A Pro Mainboard with VIA VT8233 AC97 soundchip. Sound is running very well. Now I'd like to use the gameport for MIDI- applications, but I neither do find any "/dev/midi" nor "/dev/sequencer" devices. A "device midi" res. "device pcm" in my custom kernel config does produce that these are unknown devices. A search for "midi" or "mpu401" in the kernel sources hasn't resulted in any hits. So, do you know a way how I can use my gameport res. MPU401-interface of my mainboard for MIDI-applications? Regards, Uri ___________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 1GB Speicher kostenlos - Hier anmelden: http://mail.yahoo.de From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 24 06:57:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA1516A513 for ; Wed, 24 May 2006 06:57:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.207]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6388C43D5D for ; Wed, 24 May 2006 06:57:37 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id l8so1400449nzf for ; Tue, 23 May 2006 23:57:36 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=nzDzt405xomP6UF3BnCZtnifYLCTmrd1MAclaodPsXcdplqluSnzvFUDARAb6+CBG4ZBC6hTs43vvjPuB24qSJm1DfB/NFyoJfgihcwo4yMdtJDIjXwCwx9u9ZyWa9HqGapj9z/IqMHbleDwRzkCfugra3O6Y0AtjOz1dzSEEQE= Received: by 10.37.21.60 with SMTP id y60mr8296650nzi; Tue, 23 May 2006 23:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.104.17 with HTTP; Tue, 23 May 2006 23:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 01:57:36 -0500 From: "Nikolas Britton" To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: Subject: Re: Status of VIA Envy24 audio controller support in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 06:57:41 -0000 On 1/3/06, Nikolas Britton wrote: > Still not supported? anyone working on it? etc. > From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 24 10:40:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4167316A41F; Wed, 24 May 2006 10:40:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Yuriy.Tsibizov@gfk.ru) Received: from mx.gfk.ru (mx.gfk.ru [84.21.231.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 447AC43D46; Wed, 24 May 2006 10:40:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Yuriy.Tsibizov@gfk.ru) Received: from demon.hhp.local by mx.gfk.ru (MDaemon.PRO.v8.1.4.R) with ESMTP id md50000238300.msg; Wed, 24 May 2006 14:40:00 +0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 14:39:57 +0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards thread-index: AcZ+tNMA8DFsGNJ2QA+A4YNom2HG2wAZwpsw From: "Yuriy Tsibizov" To: "Warner Losh" , X-Spam-Processed: mx.gfk.ru, Wed, 24 May 2006 14:40:00 +0400 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 10.0.0.8 X-Return-Path: Yuriy.Tsibizov@gfk.ru X-MDAV-Processed: mx.gfk.ru, Wed, 24 May 2006 14:40:01 +0400 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org, des@des.no, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net Subject: RE: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 10:40:06 -0000 > + .Pp > + Sysctl nodes provided by drivers should not be considered to be > + permanant unless they are documented in the driver's man page. > + Names which start with _ denote a tree or node which is considered > + impermanant and should not be relied up by code elsewhere in the > + system. > + Driver writers should use the sysctl infrastructure provided by > + .Xr device_get_sysctl_ctx 9=20 > + and > + .Xr device_get_sysctl_tree 9 > + for their sysctls. > + Drivers should migrate from past interfaces to this new=20 > interface, but > + provide, where needed, backwards compatibility shims. > + These facilities export the sysctl as=20 > dev...attribute. Should sound drivers (pcm* device) be documented as an exception from = this?=20 They use snd_sysctl_tree_top() to get tree OID under hw.snd.pcmX and=20 snd_sysctl_tree() to get their context. Yuriy. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 24 14:38:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A19016A747; Wed, 24 May 2006 14:38:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03B6243D46; Wed, 24 May 2006 14:38:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71BB42087; Wed, 24 May 2006 16:38:38 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Tests: none X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.0/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on tim.des.no Received: from xps.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618C02082; Wed, 24 May 2006 16:38:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: by xps.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4074F33CAD; Wed, 24 May 2006 16:38:38 +0200 (CEST) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: "Yuriy Tsibizov" References: Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 16:38:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Yuriy Tsibizov's message of "Wed, 24 May 2006 14:39:57 +0400") Message-ID: <861wujij2q.fsf@xps.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110003 (No Gnus v0.3) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, Warner Losh Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 14:38:50 -0000 "Yuriy Tsibizov" writes: > Should sound drivers (pcm* device) be documented as an exception > from this? They use snd_sysctl_tree_top() to get tree OID under > hw.snd.pcmX and snd_sysctl_tree() to get their context. They should probably switch to device_get_sysctl_*(), with some compat glue to ease the transition. If you remember to always pass the device's sysctl context to SYSCTL_ADD_*() when you create the nodes, they will be GCed when the device detaches (even if they are outside the device's sysctl subtree) We should probably have per-class contexts as well, so stuff like hw.snd.unit can be placed directly under dev.pcm. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 24 15:29:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B99DA16A7B5; Wed, 24 May 2006 15:29:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DAE143D88; Wed, 24 May 2006 15:28:49 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [IPv6:::1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4OFR0SU011266; Wed, 24 May 2006 09:27:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 09:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20060524.092659.74738447.imp@bsdimp.com> To: Yuriy.Tsibizov@gfk.ru From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org, des@des.no, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, Alexander@Leidinger.net Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 15:29:04 -0000 From: "Yuriy Tsibizov" Subject: RE: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 14:39:57 +0400 > > + .Pp > > + Sysctl nodes provided by drivers should not be considered to be > > + permanant unless they are documented in the driver's man page. > > + Names which start with _ denote a tree or node which is considered > > + impermanant and should not be relied up by code elsewhere in the > > + system. > > + Driver writers should use the sysctl infrastructure provided by > > + .Xr device_get_sysctl_ctx 9 > > + and > > + .Xr device_get_sysctl_tree 9 > > + for their sysctls. > > + Drivers should migrate from past interfaces to this new > > interface, but > > + provide, where needed, backwards compatibility shims. > > + These facilities export the sysctl as > > dev...attribute. > > Should sound drivers (pcm* device) be documented as an exception from this? > They use snd_sysctl_tree_top() to get tree OID under hw.snd.pcmX and > snd_sysctl_tree() to get their context. No. They should not. They should provide the old compatibility stuff in the old place, but also provide it in the correct place. Warner From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 24 17:05:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7600816A72C; Wed, 24 May 2006 17:05:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (jojo.ms-net.de [84.16.236.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9FA643D64; Wed, 24 May 2006 17:05:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (p54A5FC25.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.252.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k4OGrE7t029987; Wed, 24 May 2006 18:53:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k4OH5Hgi041582; Wed, 24 May 2006 19:05:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.42]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 24 May 2006 19:05:17 +0200 Message-ID: <20060524190517.shb6l4afz0gkk48c@netchild.homeip.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 19:05:17 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Scott Long References: <20060520141209.A2285@free.home.local> <86fyj1kju5.fsf@xps.des.no> <20060523171238.6392afdb@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <867j4clqaj.fsf@xps.des.no> <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> In-Reply-To: <4473336F.1030900@samsco.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1) / FreeBSD-4.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, Dag-Erling =?utf-8?b?U23DuHJncmF2?= , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 17:05:33 -0000 Quoting Scott Long (from Tue, 23 May 2006 10:08:15 -0600= ): > The problem is that Alexander wants these sysctls to only be temporary. > Recall that big thread from a month or two ago about treating sysctls > as an API, and how there was heavy disagreement over how to define > "stable" sysctls that apps could depend on? If a temporary set of > sysctls get put under the dev tree, then it risks becoming permanent, > which is not what Alexander wants. So, either we need to decide what > parts of the sysctl to define as stable, like I asked for in the > previous thread, or we need to pretend that it's not a problem that we > should address, and let you and Alexander continue to argue over the > 'correct place'. When we have a document/place which specifies a stable sysctl API, I =20 can life with putting the temporary ones into the place which =20 Dag-Erling suggested. Bye, Alexander. --=20 Selling GoodYear Eagle F1 235/40ZR18, 2x 4mm + 2x 5mm, ~150 EUR you have to pick it up between Germany/Saarland and Luxembourg/Capellen http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 72077137 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 24 17:29:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB45316A9E9; Wed, 24 May 2006 17:29:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (jojo.ms-net.de [84.16.236.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E6D543D72; Wed, 24 May 2006 17:29:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (p54A5FC25.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.252.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k4OHH6CA030101; Wed, 24 May 2006 19:17:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k4OHTAxx045097; Wed, 24 May 2006 19:29:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.42]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 24 May 2006 19:29:10 +0200 Message-ID: <20060524192910.wdazqydy80soc0cg@netchild.homeip.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 19:29:10 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Warner Losh References: <20060523.112205.115998971.imp@bsdimp.com> <44735620.9080403@samsco.org> <20060523.132355.21838169.imp@bsdimp.com> <20060523.134540.28877846.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20060523.134540.28877846.imp@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1) / FreeBSD-4.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Cc: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG, des@des.no, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Call for testing: emu10kx driver for Creative sound cards X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 17:29:21 -0000 Quoting Warner Losh (from Tue, 23 May 2006 13:45:40 -0600 (MDT)): > Somewhere between the two extremes that you pointed out is where we > should meet on consensus. We should start with where the domain > experts thought the consensus arrived at last time and make changes > from there to reach a new consensus, rather than just invent something > totally new an random. Just browsing/answering some mails between arriving at home and nearly immediatly leaving again... I didn't thought about adding a tmp/temp/deprecated/whatever component into the sysctl (you know... too much trees to see the forest). It's fine for me. Bye, Alexander. -- Selling GoodYear Eagle F1 235/40ZR18, 2x 4mm + 2x 5mm, ~150 EUR you have to pick it up between Germany/Saarland and Luxembourg/Capellen http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 24 20:28:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 968FC16A56A for ; Wed, 24 May 2006 20:28:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.192]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C6D43D5E for ; Wed, 24 May 2006 20:28:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id l8so73234nzf for ; Wed, 24 May 2006 13:28:20 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=PRhfB+HNYd1a/PVGuOrcW3IU0eh21Qopw4rrSseDuc8CVeNXAvZbq+JOnB59baRy/rCF8+FCHDmZ6mj6XdQ+g6FZ9zKN6o3XtY8EklgJ9dXDI7ZID0WKDTXZ3mC2xEFo28Hz1MwggxnrmTOskQX8XroCe8MMjXMoPuvArd2Kxtw= Received: by 10.36.247.54 with SMTP id u54mr7678440nzh; Wed, 24 May 2006 13:28:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.104.17 with HTTP; Wed, 24 May 2006 13:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 15:28:16 -0500 From: "Nikolas Britton" To: "Konstantin Dimitrov" , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <8103ad500605241133o3e248ab6ie851e43660394229@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <8103ad500605241133o3e248ab6ie851e43660394229@mail.gmail.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Status of VIA Envy24 audio controller support in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 20:28:23 -0000 On 5/24/06, Konstantin Dimitrov wrote: > hello, what envy24-based sound card do you have > I don't have any envy24 cards but I plan on buying one as soon as it's supported by FreeBSD. My current card, a SB Live, is on it's last leg, I'd buy another one but the stores I shop at don't have any to sell. The envy24 is the only chip on the market that's well designed, audio wise. I'm not getting a crappy C-Media card... the SNR is crap, I just want a high quality PCI stereo card that I can hook it up to my amp... I'm open to suggestions, anything under $100 US is fare game. --=20 BSD Podcasts @: http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/ http://freebsdforall.blogspot.com/ From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 24 20:45:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B75D16A92C for ; Wed, 24 May 2006 20:45:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.198]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1050743D46 for ; Wed, 24 May 2006 20:45:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id l8so76385nzf for ; Wed, 24 May 2006 13:45:54 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=NgBwSmVNbezqoUwlP7boM3K3KTUQxJsd0CmiBePMTTiGweZ4b08+tcNxZq5Hr5xg34HU6VkVdyRDwDOsYo/udai+EyJ2G7K2CJqdFAnv19UbsJgjSqG+IRW4JWirJlA5DhgL+F2JoFdvTTY6BCY/xfkxSwiOcVmo918bjOxxONA= Received: by 10.36.224.62 with SMTP id w62mr9952190nzg; Wed, 24 May 2006 13:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.104.17 with HTTP; Wed, 24 May 2006 13:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 15:45:54 -0500 From: "Nikolas Britton" To: "Konstantin Dimitrov" , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <8103ad500605241133o3e248ab6ie851e43660394229@mail.gmail.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Status of VIA Envy24 audio controller support in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 20:45:56 -0000 On 5/24/06, Nikolas Britton wrote: > On 5/24/06, Konstantin Dimitrov wrote: > > hello, what envy24-based sound card do you have > > > > I don't have any envy24 cards but I plan on buying one as soon as it's > supported by FreeBSD. My current card, a SB Live, is on it's last leg, > I'd buy another one but the stores I shop at don't have any to sell. > > The envy24 is the only chip on the market that's well designed, audio > wise. I'm not getting a crappy C-Media card... the SNR is crap, I just > want a high quality PCI stereo card that I can hook it up to my amp... > > I'm open to suggestions, anything under $100 US is fare game. > Something like this card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=3DN82E16829121120 --=20 BSD Podcasts @: http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/ http://freebsdforall.blogspot.com/ From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 25 02:13:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B59E416A426 for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 02:13:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (jojo.ms-net.de [84.16.236.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0933543D46 for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 02:13:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (p54A5FC25.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.252.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k4P20xjp037180; Thu, 25 May 2006 04:00:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Magellan.Leidinger.net (Magellan.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.1]) by Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k4P2D6iX020121; Thu, 25 May 2006 04:13:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 04:13:06 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: "Nikolas Britton" Message-ID: <20060525041306.78e1b1b8@Magellan.Leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: References: <8103ad500605241133o3e248ab6ie851e43660394229@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.2.0 (GTK+ 2.8.17; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of VIA Envy24 audio controller support in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 02:13:10 -0000 Quoting "Nikolas Britton" (Wed, 24 May 2006 15:28:16 -0500): > On 5/24/06, Konstantin Dimitrov wrote: > > hello, what envy24-based sound card do you have > > > > I don't have any envy24 cards but I plan on buying one as soon as it's > supported by FreeBSD. My current card, a SB Live, is on it's last leg, First we need *good* documentation for the chip. An official download URL is enough. Second we need someone who is willing to write the driver. Third, we need a card with the chip for this person. If someone provides the docs, I will put up an entry on the ideas list (http://www.FreeBSD.org/projects/ideas/) for this. Bye, Alexander. -- Selling GoodYear Eagle F1 235/40ZR18, 2x 4mm + 2x 5mm, ~150 EUR you have to pick it up between Germany/Saarland and Luxembourg/Capellen http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 25 07:18:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 789DA16A50B for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 07:18:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kosio.dimitrov@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.238]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF6B743D45 for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 07:18:18 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kosio.dimitrov@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so1755960wra for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 00:18:18 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=GJTlg1o/ymnQwltzl9rdY/3GN8N1HnWOCjl2JVa94xN9XG2DJDcNJOfWVnxZ2RXie4RTPGL7xuT/L0idfUh2JRHgA+LCFH3+JK44PBUjmpzkKVEXBoHeu/5TN1noGlbenFTpVII2Yl89Jq6qC0gDRCuLCnwT5KvwPEAXvUOnT3w= Received: by 10.54.133.17 with SMTP id g17mr271145wrd; Thu, 25 May 2006 00:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.27.17 with HTTP; Thu, 25 May 2006 00:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8103ad500605250018necd41f5v9ccb331409071fec@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 10:18:17 +0300 From: "Konstantin Dimitrov" To: "Alexander Leidinger" In-Reply-To: <20060525041306.78e1b1b8@Magellan.Leidinger.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8103ad500605241133o3e248ab6ie851e43660394229@mail.gmail.com> <20060525041306.78e1b1b8@Magellan.Leidinger.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of VIA Envy24 audio controller support in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 07:18:19 -0000 envy24-based audio cards have amazing sound quality, imho the only audio cards, that worth to buy, i was so impressed of their sound quality, that i buy not only one, but two of them: "Terratec Aureon 7.1 Space" and "Terrate= c DMX 6fire" 1.1) the available documentation is excellent, i have collected datasheets and pictures of all major ICs on "Terratec Aureon 7.1 Space", it is Envy24HT-based (ICE1724) card, you can find them here: http://xkodi.svobodno.com/xkodi/space71.html "Terratec DMX 6fire" uses Envy24 (ICE1712) and AKM4524 audio codec, datasheets for them are available here: http://people.freebsd.org/~lofi/envy24.pdf http://people.freebsd.org/~lofi/4524.pdf 1.2) most important than documentation is that there is open source driver for FreeBSD, written by Katsurajima Naoto for "M-Audio Delta Dio 2496", which is Envy24-based (ICE1712) card: http://people.freebsd.org/~lofi/envy24.tar.gz the driver is 5 years old, from 2001 and doesn't compile on newer versions of FreeBSD, but it is very easy to make it compile with patching only several lines of code 1.3) after some additional hardware specific patching ( no more than 10 lines ) of that driver i manage to get my "Terratec DMX 6fire" making sound under FreeBSD 5.4, so we actually have working Envy24(ICE1712) driver under FreeBSD 2) we can use Katsurajima Naoto's driver as a base, at least i can provide patches to that driver for "Terratec DMX 6fire" to start working under FreeBSD (tested on 5.4 and 6.1-RC2) and it is very easy to be added support for every Envy24-based (ICE1712), which uses AKM4524 audio codec like the one Nikolas Britton planning to buy: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=3DN82E16829121120 i am willing to work on the driver, but there is a lot of work to be done t= o the Katsurajima Naoto's driver to have full support at least for several most-wide-spreaded Envy24-based cards and i am not sure i can do it alone, because my experience with audio drivers under FreeBSD is limited to the time i spend making the patch for "Terratec DMX 6fire", though working on i= t is great opportunity to gain experience, but my time is very limited, so i can't guarantee any results 3) as i said, i can work on the driver in my free time and have two Envy24-based cards - "Terratec Aureon 7.1 Space" and "Terratec DMX 6fire" On 5/25/06, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > > Quoting "Nikolas Britton" (Wed, 24 May 2006 > 15:28:16 -0500): > > > On 5/24/06, Konstantin Dimitrov wrote: > > > hello, what envy24-based sound card do you have > > > > > > > I don't have any envy24 cards but I plan on buying one as soon as it's > > supported by FreeBSD. My current card, a SB Live, is on it's last leg, > > First we need *good* documentation for the chip. An official download > URL is enough. > > Second we need someone who is willing to write the driver. > > Third, we need a card with the chip for this person. > > > If someone provides the docs, I will put up an entry on the ideas list > (http://www.FreeBSD.org/projects/ideas/) for this. > > Bye, > Alexander. > > -- > Selling GoodYear Eagle F1 235/40ZR18, 2x 4mm + 2x 5mm, ~150 EUR > you have to pick it up between Germany/Saarland and Luxembourg/Capellen > http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE= 7 > http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 7207713= 7 > From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 25 09:45:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4132116A424 for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 09:45:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (jojo.ms-net.de [84.16.236.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6664243D49 for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 09:45:34 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (p54A5FC25.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.252.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k4P9XI0A039012; Thu, 25 May 2006 11:33:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Magellan.Leidinger.net (Magellan.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.1]) by Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k4P9jUvH084022; Thu, 25 May 2006 11:45:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 11:45:29 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: "Konstantin Dimitrov" Message-ID: <20060525114529.7b440c5c@Magellan.Leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: <8103ad500605250018necd41f5v9ccb331409071fec@mail.gmail.com> References: <8103ad500605241133o3e248ab6ie851e43660394229@mail.gmail.com> <20060525041306.78e1b1b8@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <8103ad500605250018necd41f5v9ccb331409071fec@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.2.0 (GTK+ 2.8.17; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of VIA Envy24 audio controller support in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 09:45:36 -0000 Quoting "Konstantin Dimitrov" (Thu, 25 May 2006 10:18:17 +0300): > 1.2) most important than documentation is that there is open source driver > for FreeBSD, written by Katsurajima Naoto for "M-Audio Delta Dio 2496", I CCed him. > which is Envy24-based (ICE1712) card: > > http://people.freebsd.org/~lofi/envy24.tar.gz > > the driver is 5 years old, from 2001 and doesn't compile on newer versions > of FreeBSD, but it is very easy to make it compile with patching only > several lines of code > 2) we can use Katsurajima Naoto's driver as a base, at least i can provide > patches to that driver for "Terratec DMX 6fire" to start working under > FreeBSD (tested on 5.4 and 6.1-RC2) and it is very easy to be added support That would be great. Since the driver source contains a BSD license, I don't think there will be any objections, but I want some kind of formal OK (with a timeout of ... let's say two weeks). Katsurajima-san (I hope I got the right part of your name, my apologies if I didn't), is it ok for you when I commit your driver to FreeBSD? Do you have a newer version, or are you still working on it? If not, are you willing to work on it (maybe together with Konstantin)? > for every Envy24-based (ICE1712), which uses AKM4524 audio codec like the > one Nikolas Britton planning to buy: > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829121120 > > i am willing to work on the driver, but there is a lot of work to be done to > the Katsurajima Naoto's driver to have full support at least for several > most-wide-spreaded Envy24-based cards and i am not sure i can do it alone, You don't have to. Just do what you are willing to do. Support for even only one card is more than support for no card at all. > because my experience with audio drivers under FreeBSD is limited to the > time i spend making the patch for "Terratec DMX 6fire", though working on it > is great opportunity to gain experience, but my time is very limited, so i > can't guarantee any results I'm sure Ariff will answer questions as time permits when you (or someone else) asks questions. You can have a look at http://www.leidinger.net/FreeBSD/src_docs/, and in case you take notes we would be happy if you could add some doxygen lines (www.doxygen.org) to the source and send them in. The stuff to generate those docs you see above will enter CVS "soon". I think this summer will be an interesting sound-stuff summer... Bye, Alexander. -- Selling GoodYear Eagle F1 235/40ZR18, 2x 4mm + 2x 5mm, ~150 EUR you have to pick it up between Germany/Saarland and Luxembourg/Capellen http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 25 15:14:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80A016A6E3 for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 15:14:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.193]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC3C743D76 for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 15:14:24 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from nikolas.britton@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id l8so230219nzf for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 08:14:23 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=nEvVKsIRUdDJkwS4C0gYwiod8H7XZgygH4PHcMvI3Lo42oCJVv8ntbwb14Mu2YKR504diRaz/22BIhCbihZvuskpoH0oGPlycjk99A2TWyol3eR4lxDfk6mCTQG/oOAKtXoigdOkK1qr5NEozfBDWXEPthEzU6x9vY7yF+S200s= Received: by 10.36.159.19 with SMTP id h19mr1510976nze; Thu, 25 May 2006 08:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.104.17 with HTTP; Thu, 25 May 2006 08:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 10:14:23 -0500 From: "Nikolas Britton" To: "Alexander Leidinger" In-Reply-To: <20060525114529.7b440c5c@Magellan.Leidinger.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <8103ad500605241133o3e248ab6ie851e43660394229@mail.gmail.com> <20060525041306.78e1b1b8@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <8103ad500605250018necd41f5v9ccb331409071fec@mail.gmail.com> <20060525114529.7b440c5c@Magellan.Leidinger.net> Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of VIA Envy24 audio controller support in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 15:14:32 -0000 Here's more datasheets for the Envy24: http://www.nbritton.org/uploads/envy24/ And a cheap card: CHAINTECH AV-710 (Envy24HT-S or Envy24PT with VIA AC'97 chip) $23: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=3DN82E16829120103 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 25 15:45:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74A516A51E for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 15:45:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kosio.dimitrov@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA1FC43D48 for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 15:45:12 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from kosio.dimitrov@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id i31so1368179wxd for ; Thu, 25 May 2006 08:45:12 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=CarF46pjRw30cDUemIzZ0cVhypnMI6f5VOv39xQI1ZrF/798riHE3xfCFphpkJJe05lFri0+PAEAy+tArV2oDNeGPFCdn2TBzsG3yr072ZQMVS2WU0pTWf+1p8PFEaAvwZR8q0//MoWqcGzr1D6o3J0OkM8YY/6AlQGv5pdTTVI= Received: by 10.70.68.20 with SMTP id q20mr345533wxa; Thu, 25 May 2006 08:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.27.17 with HTTP; Thu, 25 May 2006 08:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8103ad500605250845q4d0f8b6an5c836a9a96015df8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 18:45:11 +0300 From: "Konstantin Dimitrov" To: "Alexander Leidinger" In-Reply-To: <20060525114529.7b440c5c@Magellan.Leidinger.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8103ad500605241133o3e248ab6ie851e43660394229@mail.gmail.com> <20060525041306.78e1b1b8@Magellan.Leidinger.net> <8103ad500605250018necd41f5v9ccb331409071fec@mail.gmail.com> <20060525114529.7b440c5c@Magellan.Leidinger.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Status of VIA Envy24 audio controller support in FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 15:45:16 -0000 ok, so here is the patches to make Katsurajima Naoto's driver for "M-Audio Delta Dio 2496" to compile under newer versions of FreeBSD: http://xkodi.svobodno.com/envy24/envy24.c.diff http://xkodi.svobodno.com/envy24/ak452x.c.diff so with these patches we immediately have support for "M-Audio Delta Dio 2496" under FreeBSD as Katsurajima Naoto implemented it 5 years ago, i don'= t have "M-Audio Delta Dio 2496", but the driver compiles fine on FreeBSD 5.4and FreeBSD 6.1-RC2, to compile under FreeBSD 6.1-RC2 you should add "WERROR=3D" to the Makefile for snd_envy24.ko: # $FreeBSD$ .PATH: ${.CURDIR}/../../../../dev/sound/pci KMOD =3D snd_envy24 SRCS =3D device_if.h bus_if.h isa_if.h pci_if.h SRCS +=3D envy24.c WERROR=3D .include to prove myself that the above driver is actually working i made small hardware specific patches and after that it is able to operate with my "Terratec DMX 6fire" card, i have loud and clear sound under FreeBSD 5.4 an= d FreeBSD 6.1-RC2, so the driver is really working. it is very easy to add support for another Envy24-based (ICE1712) sound card, which uses AK4524 audio codec, here is the heart of the patch (notice that this patch brokes the "M-Audio Delta Dio 2496" support and enables "Terratec DMX 6fire" support, anyway it is easy to make support for more than one card at the same time): http://xkodi.svobodno.com/envy24/envy24.h.diff : -#define ENVY24_GPIO_AK4524_CS0 0x40 -#define ENVY24_GPIO_AK4524_CS1 0x80 +#define ENVY24_GPIO_AK4524_CS0 0x01 +#define ENVY24_GPIO_AK4524_CS1 0x02 -#define ENVY24_DELTA_AK4524_CIF 0 +#define ENVY24_DELTA_AK4524_CIF 1 "M-Audio Delta Dio 2496" has 2xAK4524 audio codecs and their chip select (CS) pins are wired to GPIO6 and GPIO7 of the Envy24 audio controller chip, "Terratec DMX 6fire" has 3xAK4524 audio codecs wired to GPIO0, GPIO1 and GPIO2, so i change the CS definitions to their correct values for "Terratec DMX 6fire" and doesn't add the third codec (ENVY24_GPIO_AK4524_CS2), becaus= e the driver is able to initialize only two audio codecs. ENVY24_DELTA_AK4524_CIF defines the input to AK4524 Control Interface pin and determines how the control data send to the audio codec are sampled - o= n the rissing or on the falling edge of chip select (CS) and it must be "1" for "Terratec DMX 6fire". because sometimes with my "Terratec DMX 6fire" i have noise entering hardware mixer of the Envy24 from one the inputs i muted it, using this patch (it is ugly, maybe not on the right place and the cause of the noise is unknown, so maybe it will not be needed for the future): http://xkodi.svobodno.com/envy24/envy24_6fire.c.diff : + envy24_wrmt(sc, ENVY24_MT_VOLIDX, 16, 1); + envy24_wrmt(sc, ENVY24_MT_VOLUME, 0x7f7f, 2); + envy24_wrmt(sc, ENVY24_MT_VOLIDX, 17, 1); + envy24_wrmt(sc, ENVY24_MT_VOLUME, 0x7f7f, 2); here is the last, really not needed and pure "cosmetic" patch, which change= s the name of the card: http://xkodi.svobodno.com/envy24/envy24_6fire2.c.diff : static struct cfg_info cfg_table[] =3D { { - "Envy24 audio(M Audio Delta Dio 2496)", - 0x1412, 0xd631, - 0x10, 0x80, 0xf0, 0x03, - 0xff, 0x00, 0x00, + "Envy24 audio(Terratec DMX 6fire)", + 0x153b, 0x1138, + 0x2f, 0x80, 0xf0, 0x03, + 0xc0, 0x7f, 0xff, 0, &delta_codec, }, all magic numbers above are taken from "Terratec DMX 6fire" EEPROM, dump is available here: http://xkodi.svobodno.com/envy24/6fire.dump to summarize at least two Envy24-based (ICE1712) cards work, and have basic open source support under FreeBSD, using the Katsurajima Naoto's driver and appropriate patches: 1) "M-Audio Delta Dio 2496" 2) "Terratec DMX 6fire" if you have questions you can contact me, but for the next several week i will be very busy, so don't expect very fast answers. On 5/25/06, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > > Quoting "Konstantin Dimitrov" (Thu, 25 May 200= 6 > 10:18:17 +0300): > > > 1.2) most important than documentation is that there is open source > driver > > for FreeBSD, written by Katsurajima Naoto for "M-Audio Delta Dio 2496", > > I CCed him. > > > which is Envy24-based (ICE1712) card: > > > > http://people.freebsd.org/~lofi/envy24.tar.gz > > > > the driver is 5 years old, from 2001 and doesn't compile on newer > versions > > of FreeBSD, but it is very easy to make it compile with patching only > > several lines of code > > > 2) we can use Katsurajima Naoto's driver as a base, at least i can > provide > > patches to that driver for "Terratec DMX 6fire" to start working under > > FreeBSD (tested on 5.4 and 6.1-RC2) and it is very easy to be added > support > > That would be great. Since the driver source contains a BSD license, I > don't think there will be any objections, but I want some kind of > formal OK (with a timeout of ... let's say two weeks). > > Katsurajima-san (I hope I got the right part of your name, my apologies > if I didn't), is it ok for you when I commit your driver to FreeBSD? Do > you have a newer version, or are you still working on it? If not, are > you willing to work on it (maybe together with Konstantin)? > > > for every Envy24-based (ICE1712), which uses AKM4524 audio codec like > the > > one Nikolas Britton planning to buy: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=3DN82E16829121120 > > > > i am willing to work on the driver, but there is a lot of work to be > done to > > the Katsurajima Naoto's driver to have full support at least for severa= l > > most-wide-spreaded Envy24-based cards and i am not sure i can do it > alone, > > You don't have to. Just do what you are willing to do. Support for even > only one card is more than support for no card at all. > > > because my experience with audio drivers under FreeBSD is limited to th= e > > time i spend making the patch for "Terratec DMX 6fire", though working > on it > > is great opportunity to gain experience, but my time is very limited, s= o > i > > can't guarantee any results > > I'm sure Ariff will answer questions as time permits when you (or > someone else) asks questions. > > You can have a look at http://www.leidinger.net/FreeBSD/src_docs/, and > in case you take notes we would be happy if you could add some > doxygen lines (www.doxygen.org) to the source and send them in. > > The stuff to generate those docs you see above will enter CVS "soon". > > I think this summer will be an interesting sound-stuff summer... > > Bye, > Alexander. > > -- > Selling GoodYear Eagle F1 235/40ZR18, 2x 4mm + 2x 5mm, ~150 EUR > you have to pick it up between Germany/Saarland and Luxembourg/Capellen > http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE= 7 > http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 7207713= 7 > From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 26 21:25:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimedia@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0FA316BA46 for ; Fri, 26 May 2006 21:25:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from a.n.s.i@gmx.net) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 005AB43D4C for ; Fri, 26 May 2006 21:25:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from a.n.s.i@gmx.net) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 26 May 2006 21:25:21 -0000 Received: from p508786E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.0.16]) [80.135.134.227] by mail.gmx.net (mp039) with SMTP; 26 May 2006 23:25:21 +0200 X-Authenticated: #30170983 Message-ID: <44778F35.3050006@gmx.net> Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 23:28:53 +0000 From: Evgeny Solovyov User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060113) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: multimedia@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: TV Remote Control, Lirc under FreeBSD 6.1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 21:25:32 -0000 Anybody use lirc under FreeBSD 6.x? (/usr/ports/comms/lirc) I have a Problems to use it: # lircd -n --device=/dev/ttyd0 /tmp/lirc.conf lircd 0.7.2: lircd(irman) ready .. # irw /var/lirc/lircd .. lircd 0.7.2: accepted new client on /var/lirc/lircd lircd 0.7.2: could not open /dev/ttyd0 lircd 0.7.2: irman_init(): Operation timed out lircd 0.7.2: caught signal Terminated # Does anyone have any ideas? Please help me. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 27 16:54:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEAB316C392 for ; Sat, 27 May 2006 16:54:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (jojo.ms-net.de [84.16.236.246]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67C4943D46 for ; Sat, 27 May 2006 16:54:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (p54A5CD3E.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.205.62]) (authenticated bits=0) by www.ebusiness-leidinger.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k4RGs2YC071155 for ; Sat, 27 May 2006 18:54:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from Magellan.Leidinger.net (Magellan.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.1]) by Andro-Beta.Leidinger.net (8.13.4/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k4RGsCNb029910 for ; Sat, 27 May 2006 18:54:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 18:54:13 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: multimedia@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20060527185413.7d3f604e@Magellan.Leidinger.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 2.2.0 (GTK+ 2.8.17; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Cc: Subject: HEADS-UP: midi code committed to -current X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 16:54:49 -0000 Hi, it's the old-new one. Based upon the NetBSD one, enhanced by tanimura and large parts rewritten by matk. Yuriy Tsibizov (of emu10kx fame) took the code and integrated it into -current to be able to use it with his emu10kx driver (it will enter the tree when he fixed some bugs after his holiday). The commit contains changes to the emu10k1 and cmi drivers. People with such a soundcard may want to give it a try (the driver module should load the midi module automatically). We do not have a maintainer for this! I will try to fix panics, and I may have a look at LOR's if one shows up (in both cases send a PR please, for panics you have to compile the sound stuff into the kernel instead of using modules... except you *really* know how to produce useful backtraces with modules). I repeat: WE DO NOT HAVE A MAINTAINER FOR THIS! So if your soundcard does not make use of the midi code, send patches. If you miss a midi-feature in this code, send patches. Bye, Alexander. P.S.: I'm interested in success reports. What does work and what does not work? We need a man page for this stuff. Please answer to multimedia@. -- Selling GoodYear Eagle F1 235/40ZR18, 2x 4mm + 2x 5mm, ~150 EUR you have to pick it up between Germany/Saarland and Luxembourg/Capellen http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 27 18:37:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E7616A439 for ; Sat, 27 May 2006 18:37:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bchmbezfbvr@na.manpower.com) Received: from na.manpower.com (asb138.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl [83.26.213.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 639B043D46 for ; Sat, 27 May 2006 18:37:55 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bchmbezfbvr@na.manpower.com) Received: from ua-qf02 (192.168.2.54) by smtp-s1.antel.net.uy (7.2.072.1) (authenticated as bchmbezfbvr@na.manpower.com) id lokks05f232zl6m5 Sat, 27 May 2006 20:38:09 +0100 Received: from [83.26.213.138] by www.adinet.com.uy via http; Sat, 27 May 2006 20:38:09 +0100 Message-ID: <66941923.8497048619384.JavaMail.bopilp@ua-qf02> Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 20:38:09 +0100 (UYT) From: "fsbgy mzhdelh" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 83.26.213.138 Cc: Subject: (fwd) Your PR man X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: fsbgy mzhdelh List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 18:38:03 -0000 CTXE***CTXE***CTXE***CTXE***CTXE***CTXE***CTXE Get CTXE First Thing Today, Check out for HOT NEWS!!! 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