From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 19 14:29:17 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECDE416A403 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:29:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFB113C45A for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:29:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (bapqbq@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l2JESrJZ036474; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:28:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id l2JESmUu036473; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:28:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:28:48 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200703191428.l2JESmUu036473@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, volker@vwsoft.com, soralx@cydem.org In-Reply-To: <20070316171854.5395a8d7@freen0de> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.2-20060425 ("Shillay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:28:59 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: open source graphics card X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, volker@vwsoft.com, soralx@cydem.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:29:18 -0000 soralx@cydem.org wrote: > > > Another thing to keep in mind: In order to produce a > > competitive graphics card today (at a competitive price!), > > it must be at least on par with the "big ones", which > > requires DirectX 9 and HDCP support, among other things. > > DirectX, HDCP, and other garbage is not open source, thus ought to be > disregarded. If you disregard those technologies, you won't be able to sell the card at a competitive price, because only very few people would consider buying it. > > Did I already mention patents? > > Basically, you aren't getting hardware for free anyway, open "source" > or not (unless you own a PCB mill and a chip making plant). So, paying > due "respects" to the inventors who hold patents should be considered > part of the cost (unless the tax is ridiculously inflated). Right. Patents may be a PITA, but they are not mutual exclusive with open-source. You only run into problems when you need to use technology that needs to be licensed from a company that doesn't allow it to be open-sourced. Or when there are laws or regulations that forbid certain technology to be open- sourced (as is the case for some WLAN chips, so users cannot modify the frequency settings to violate FCC regulations). Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd With Perl you can manipulate text, interact with programs, talk over networks, drive Web pages, perform arbitrary precision arithmetic, and write programs that look like Snoopy swearing. 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Powered by Pixelfish http://www.pixelfish.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 21 12:12:27 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5284416A413 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:12:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from idiotbg@gmail.com) Received: from smtp.studnetz.uni-leipzig.de (smtp.studnetz.uni-leipzig.de [139.18.143.252]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9E4F13C4C9 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:12:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from idiotbg@gmail.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.studnetz.uni-leipzig.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D541FF; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:40:23 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at studnetz-ul Received: from smtp.studnetz.uni-leipzig.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.studnetz.uni-leipzig.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l5taK-cWYjng; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:40:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from a144026.studnetz.uni-leipzig.de (a144026.studnetz.uni-leipzig.de [139.18.144.26]) by smtp.studnetz.uni-leipzig.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4E681FE; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:40:22 +0100 (CET) From: Momchil Ivanov To: "illoai@gmail.com" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:40:10 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.4 References: <200703210405.53969.idiotbg@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart7180962.go1HlUFsSE"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200703211240.17942.idiotbg@gmail.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Question: Mailing Lists Legal Information X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: idiotbg@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:12:27 -0000 --nextPart7180962.go1HlUFsSE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline =D0=9D=D0=B0 21.3.2007 07:10 =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D1=85=D1= =82=D0=B5: > On 20/03/07, Momchil Ivanov wrote: > > Greetings, > > > > I have a strange question that has been bothering mi mind in the past 2 > > hours and it`s about legal notices. Nowadays almost everything is digit= al > > and there is usually some copyright/copyleft or whaterver other legal > > notice assigned to almost every piece of bits/data (binary programs, > > source codes, images, docs, etc...). In this way of thoughts every e-ma= il > > should be considered some kind of intelectual property belonging to its > > author, shouldn't it? > > > > So I was thinking: should there be some kind of legal notice when > > subscribing to a list (respectively sending an e-mail to a list, not > > being subscribed to) that says that the author gives exclusive rights to > > The FreeBSD Foundation to store (archive) and redistribute (the way > > mailing lists work) e-mails being sent to the list? > > > > I have been thinking about this since some people use in their signatur= es > > texts like: > > "You should not copy this e-mail or use it for any other purposes or > > disclose its contents to any other person." > > > > Correct me if I am thinking complete nonsense, please! Mailing list have > > been live for a long time now, but I think nowadays they need > > subscriber's permission to redistribute, store and publish subscriber's > > mails on the web. > > > > Thank you for your time reading this :) > > > > -- > > This correspondence is strictly confidential. Any screening, filtering > > and/or production for the purpose of public or otherwise disclosure is > > forbidden without written permission by the author signed above. If you > > are not the intended recipient, please immediately notify the sender and > > permanently delete any copies > > This sort of nonsense should probably be on chat@ > rather than doc@. > > It is as silly as: > > By reading this message you agree to pay me $4500 > cash within the next 10 days or relenquish title to your > house. Usually when you register somewhere, you have to click on a checkbox statin= g=20 that you accept the terms and conditions for using your registration. What = I=20 mean is that we should have something like this for the mailing lists. For= =20 example: when you subscribe to a mailing list you click on a checkbox to=20 allow redistribution and storage of your email. Sending your content to a mail list is like sending your content to=20 youtube/youporn or whatever, the only difference is that usually the former= =20 is in the form of readable text. Nevertheless, both are published on the we= b. http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/ Most of the things on the FreeBSD's web site have some copyright, excluding= =20 mail lists' archives. We should say something about that content too, don`t= =20 you thnik? Maybe I missed something somewhere, maybe I`m completely wrong, but that`s= =20 what I think, what about you? =2D-=20 PGP KeyID: 0x3118168B Keyserver: pgp.mit.edu Key fingerprint BB50 2983 0714 36DC D02E 158A E03D 56DA 3118 168B --nextPart7180962.go1HlUFsSE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBGARmh4D1W2jEYFosRAvglAJ49i1oqu+LJpj+Thyj7lXZF/qflDwCeL1xG EcknL+LiBJKc/+W8xAWrZhg= =DBWE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart7180962.go1HlUFsSE-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 22 00:57:19 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D5616A402 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:57:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@ricin.com) Received: from smtpq1.groni1.gr.home.nl (smtpq1.groni1.gr.home.nl [213.51.130.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C6013C48A for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:57:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@ricin.com) Received: from [213.51.130.190] (port=43751 helo=smtp1.groni1.gr.home.nl) by smtpq1.groni1.gr.home.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1HUAuf-0007d4-9O for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 01:12:17 +0100 Received: from cp464173-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl ([84.27.214.242]:65228 helo=desktop.homenet) by smtp1.groni1.gr.home.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1HUAan-0000Xh-7Y for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:51:45 +0100 From: Danny Pansters To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:51:40 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 References: <200703210405.53969.idiotbg@gmail.com> <200703211240.17942.idiotbg@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <200703211240.17942.idiotbg@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200703220051.40774.danny@ricin.com> X-AtHome-MailScanner-Information: Please contact support@home.nl for more information X-AtHome-MailScanner: Found to be clean Subject: Re: Question: Mailing Lists Legal Information X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:57:19 -0000 On Wednesday 21 March 2007 12:40:10 Momchil Ivanov wrote: > Usually when you register somewhere, you have to click on a checkbox > stating that you accept the terms and conditions for using your > registration. What I mean is that we should have something like this for > the mailing lists. For example: when you subscribe to a mailing list you > click on a checkbox to allow redistribution and storage of your email. Reproduction and storage of your message is implied when signing up for a mailing list, same with forums, usenet, etc. Or even merely using email (think: quoting, reply-to-all, etc) It's the nature of the thing. That's what it does. > Sending your content to a mail list is like sending your content to > youtube/youporn or whatever, the only difference is that usually the former > is in the form of readable text. Nevertheless, both are published on the > web. You're the one publishing it in the first place. In principle, you own the copyright to your message but I would say the nature of the medium to which you send your message is well established. It doesn't take away your copyright, but it most likely takes away your ability to retract a message and get it completely deleted from the intarweb. > http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/ > Most of the things on the FreeBSD's web site have some copyright, excluding > mail lists' archives. We should say something about that content too, don`t > you thnik? No. > Maybe I missed something somewhere, maybe I`m completely wrong, but that`s > what I think, what about you? I disagree because the way your chosen medium works is well established, i.o.w. you should know what you get into by using the technology IMHO. And yes, I also highly dislike the stupid verbose disclaimers that some people append to their messages. If taken literally, in many cases you wouldn't even be allowed to quote their babble in your reply. But in the end it's their problem, not mine. Dan From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 23 19:31:05 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15E3E16A403 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 19:31:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.185]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 937FE13C4AD for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 19:31:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deeptech71@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a27so2076905nfc for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:31:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=CnLx9hYbT1mdDgH8hVv7W9OjZ2857iy6qJw8za9k7Cu7xWAYGlIanZk75zxP5aBKgDrvsEXFb6JOfJYAkBlr1rjWd+FAe8w9aEhdVzKtio83wpTrDFmcK+DxMlza8eyTbX0k2XD2MJGhBbt/4Z/2aXMSwQ7zWTU8yQm3SWGyhfA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hgPOZk5pgAoSJASOrcEFF3OUDnN99xFveX/8PDEC0mMedWMBPpNZ+ZO8OZWNnaP0yflJPMWDedjQVgRSru2CRdzX8ac0VIxcTZjgE88v0jzMUvp+TXhoyNhw8/MA+Wg26P5+Dfy7P5IAMR2f7YbImHbt/uvA/F9vTbgVzz5A0yM= Received: by 10.82.114.3 with SMTP id m3mr7305788buc.1174678261332; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.123.111? ( [84.0.107.89]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id e8sm16548802muf.2007.03.23.12.30.59; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46042B3A.7070100@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:32:10 +0100 From: deeptech71@gmail.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: 64bit timestamp X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 19:31:05 -0000 UNIX Timestamp: 32 bits, starts from year 1970, ticks every second capable of representing the time from 1970 to 2106 'til then, computers will change sufficient for file timestamps, comparing file times Let's see what 64 bits can do! 2^64, that is 18446744073709551616 different values 18446744073709551616 / (1000000microseconds/value) / (60seconds/minute) / (60minutes/hour) / (24hours/day) / (365.2475days/year) / (2, for signed time values) = +-292273 years in the future/present, every microsecond OK, presicion is too much, however, when very fast x64 computers are developed, programs should distinguish time between the same millisecond. Redunant for filesystems.. who would require 300K years? who would edit files every microsecond? NTP has 136 years with such precision, that the processors these days cant handle. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 24 16:04:17 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC06D16A402 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:04:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF2313C45D for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:04:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (apqbqj@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l2OG4Ae9084284; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:04:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id l2OG4AU7084283; Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:04:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:04:10 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200703241604.l2OG4AU7084283@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <46042B3A.7070100@gmail.com> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.2-20060425 ("Shillay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:04:16 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: 64bit timestamp X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, deeptech71@gmail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:04:17 -0000 deeptech71@gmail.com wrote: > UNIX Timestamp: > 32 bits, starts from year 1970, ticks every second > capable of representing the time from 1970 to 2106 No, the UNIX time_t is a signed value, so it ranges from 1901 to 2038 when it's a 32bit int (such as on FreeBSD; Solaris has a 64bit time_t, for example): $ date -r $(( - 2 ** 31 )) Fri Dec 13 21:45:52 CET 1901 $ date -r $(( 2 ** 31 - 1 )) Tue Jan 19 04:14:07 CET 2038 (I'm using a privately patched version of /bin/sh which knows the "**" operator, among other things.) > 'til then, computers will change > sufficient for file timestamps, comparing file times FreeBSD's UFS2 already uses 96bit timestamps, where 64 bits are used for seconds and 32 bits are used for nanoseconds. Is that sufficient for you? See for the actual definitions: typedef int64_t ufs_time_t; [...] struct ufs2_dinode { [...] ufs_time_t di_atime; /* 32: Last access time. */ ufs_time_t di_mtime; /* 40: Last modified time. */ ufs_time_t di_ctime; /* 48: Last inode change time. */ ufs_time_t di_birthtime; /* 56: Inode creation time. */ int32_t di_mtimensec; /* 64: Last modified time. */ int32_t di_atimensec; /* 68: Last access time. */ int32_t di_ctimensec; /* 72: Last inode change time. */ int32_t di_birthnsec; /* 76: Inode creation time. */ [...] } Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "I have stopped reading Stephen King novels. Now I just read C code instead." -- Richard A. O'Keefe