From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 21:54:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A6B106564A; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:54:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from kozubik.com (kozubik.com [69.43.165.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 395068FC0A; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:54:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from kozubik.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kozubik.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m5JLcBC9072882; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:38:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by kozubik.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) with ESMTP id m5JLcBno072879; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:38:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:38:11 -0700 (PDT) From: John Kozubik To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080619135114.Y1807@kozubik.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: jamie@bishopston.net, narayan@neelum.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:54:16 -0000 Don't shoot the messenger: FreeBSD is not useful as a desktop environment without the ability to support Flash in a stable, well-performing fashion. Running IE in Wine is not a solution. Running another OS in vmware to simply browse the web is not a solution. Free flash alternatives and flash movie players, etc., are, unfortunately, not a solution. ports/linux-flashplayer9 _is_ a solution, however it (currently) fails badly. Solution: First, a bounty has been posted here: http://blog.kozubik.com/john_kozubik/2007/12/bounty-posted-f.html We aren't even asking for new code, per se - anyone merely posting a recipe that allows linux-flashplayer9 to run, without crashing and with reasonable performance, with a generic browser (opera, firefox, konqueror) can claim the bounty. In fact, a recipe that is entirely inside the Linux Binary Compatibility layer would be just fine - running the linux version of a browser through binary compat is reasonable[1]. Second, I am calling on the FreeBSD Foundation to commit time and money to ensuring that flash functionality is recognized as a high priority for FreeBSD desktop use. I am willing to donate funds for this purpose. Flash 9 will not be the baseline forever, and it is inefficient to ramp up a grass roots bounty effort each time Adobe releases a new product. For this reason I believe it is reasonable for the project itself to ensure that Flash support is delivered and maintained in a timely fashion. [1] Since we're all probably already running Linux Binary Compat anyway... ----- John Kozubik - john@kozubik.com - http://www.kozubik.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 19 22:34:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDDE7106566B for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:34:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from kozubik.com (kozubik.com [69.43.165.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9AD18FC12 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:34:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from kozubik.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kozubik.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m5JMvUEK073415; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:57:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by kozubik.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) with ESMTP id m5JMvUeZ073412; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:57:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:57:30 -0700 (PDT) From: John Kozubik To: Pietro Cerutti In-Reply-To: <485AD73C.4080605@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <20080619154909.A1807@kozubik.com> References: <20080619135114.Y1807@kozubik.com> <485AD73C.4080605@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:34:08 -0000 On Fri, 20 Jun 2008, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > John Kozubik wrote: > | > | Don't shoot the messenger: > | > | > | FreeBSD is not useful as a desktop environment without the ability to > | support Flash in a stable, well-performing fashion. > > gnash-devel provides flash 9 and works pretty well... That's why I discounted that as a solution. I am a FreeBSD desktop user, not a FreeBSD desktop developer. I, and many others, do not have time to hack around with gnash working "pretty well". I'm not trying to discount thier efforts, but Adobe makes an honest to god release version of flash for Linux, and FreeBSD runs linux binaries very well. I think this is the right direction to move in, especially if maintenance and support are (hopefully) going to be provided in some official capacity by the project itself. The key point here is that flash support has changed qualitatively from being something convenient and helpful to being _absolutely necessary_ for any kind of day to day work with a web browser[1]. That is why I am suggesting that the FreeBSD project itself take an official interest in making sure that it works. [1] A sad commentary, especially when most flash content is completely superfluous, often providing nothing but static images and/or text. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 00:28:37 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757341065675 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:28:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt@ixsystems.com) Received: from smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.92]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 56D6D8FC23 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:28:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt@ixsystems.com) Received: (qmail 35920 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2008 00:01:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO client-179.nat.ixsystems.net) (syndivision@att.net@206.40.55.65 with plain) by smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2008 00:01:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Tk8x87cVM1mLOqsU3NBzg.uIb74jPYh5SrTIDUDp.ftARKGs1xj1XMFQ_2lWZZjw8YbYEADdMKF17nqZEvOgEzkAqrho0GKzKd2jj7yvrB4r4k7GYjUToK3mq6b2fxI- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-Id: From: Matt Olander To: John Kozubik In-Reply-To: <20080619154909.A1807@kozubik.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:01:55 -0700 References: <20080619135114.Y1807@kozubik.com> <485AD73C.4080605@FreeBSD.org> <20080619154909.A1807@kozubik.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.919.2) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org, Pietro Cerutti Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:28:37 -0000 On Jun 19, 2008, at 3:57 PM, John Kozubik wrote: > > > On Fri, 20 Jun 2008, Pietro Cerutti wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA512 >> >> John Kozubik wrote: >> | >> | Don't shoot the messenger: >> | >> | >> | FreeBSD is not useful as a desktop environment without the >> ability to >> | support Flash in a stable, well-performing fashion. >> >> gnash-devel provides flash 9 and works pretty well... > > > That's why I discounted that as a solution. I am a FreeBSD desktop > user, > not a FreeBSD desktop developer. I, and many others, do not have > time to > hack around with gnash working "pretty well". I have been working with Adobe management and the Flash development team for quite some time. It seems, just as with the redistribution agreement we worked out with them, the legal department is most likely the hold up. I will have an update for the FreeBSD community within the next couple of months. In the meantime, just in case, it could be worthwhile to further our support of linux-flash9 under FreeBSD. best, -matt -- Matt Olander CTO, iXsystems - "Servers for Open Source" http://www.iXsystems.com Public Relations, The FreeBSD Project http://www.FreeBSD.org BSD on the Desktop! http://www.pcbsd.org Phone: (408)943-4100 ext. 113 Fax: (408)943-4101 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 03:09:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28C3F1065674; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 03:09:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from kozubik.com (kozubik.com [69.43.165.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0586D8FC14; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 03:09:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from kozubik.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kozubik.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m5K3WQJk076096; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:32:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by kozubik.com (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) with ESMTP id m5K3WQd9076093; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:32:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:32:26 -0700 (PDT) From: John Kozubik To: Matt Olander In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080619203004.I1807@kozubik.com> References: <20080619135114.Y1807@kozubik.com> <485AD73C.4080605@FreeBSD.org> <20080619154909.A1807@kozubik.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org, Pietro Cerutti Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 03:09:03 -0000 Matt, On Thu, 19 Jun 2008, Matt Olander wrote: > I have been working with Adobe management and the Flash development > team for quite some time. It seems, just as with the redistribution > agreement we worked out with them, the legal department is most likely > the hold up. I will have an update for the FreeBSD community within > the next couple of months. In the meantime, just in case, it could be > worthwhile to further our support of linux-flash9 under FreeBSD. Thank you very much for your work, and for this information - this is great news. I agree that we should move forward with linux-flash9 under FreeBSD, just in case. Do you have any insight into why that solution is unworkable currently ? Who, if anyone, is working on that ? Out of curiousity, which flash player do you use in FreeBSD, and what is your recipe for making it work ? Thank you. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 09:48:31 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964F21065675 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:48:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tom@ctors.net) Received: from yorgi.telenet-ops.be (yorgi.telenet-ops.be [195.130.133.69]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EEF28FC40 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:48:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tom@ctors.net) Received: from edna.telenet-ops.be (edna.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.58]) by yorgi.telenet-ops.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B90158990F for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:36:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by edna.telenet-ops.be (Postfix) with SMTP id 584EAE4004; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:36:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lis.ctors.local (dD576154D.access.telenet.be [213.118.21.77]) by edna.telenet-ops.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC49E4065; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:36:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <485B7A23.8060901@ctors.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:36:35 +0200 From: Tom Van Looy User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080505) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Olander References: <20080619135114.Y1807@kozubik.com> <485AD73C.4080605@FreeBSD.org> <20080619154909.A1807@kozubik.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:48:31 -0000 Matt Olander wrote: > I have been working with Adobe management and the Flash development team > for quite some time. It seems, just as with the redistribution agreement > we worked out with them, the legal department is most likely the hold > up. I will have an update for the FreeBSD community within the next > couple of months. In the meantime, just in case, it could be worthwhile > to further our support of linux-flash9 under FreeBSD. Can we go "whine" at some Adobe address for this? Maybe when they see more individuals complaining, they will give this an higher priority? Kind regards, Tom From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 11:08:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA231065679 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:08:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cpanel03.rubas-s03.net (cpanel03.rubas-s03.net [195.182.222.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6AF8FC12 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:08:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gahr@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [213.142.183.219] (helo=gahrtop.localhost) by cpanel03.rubas-s03.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1K9SCE-0006oU-0U; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:01:34 +0200 Message-ID: <485AD73C.4080605@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:01:32 +0200 From: Pietro Cerutti Organization: The FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080610) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Kozubik References: <20080619135114.Y1807@kozubik.com> In-Reply-To: <20080619135114.Y1807@kozubik.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.6 OpenPGP: id=9571F78E; url=http://gahr.ch/pgp/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel03.rubas-s03.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - FreeBSD.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: jamie@bishopston.net, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, narayan@neelum.com Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:08:46 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 John Kozubik wrote: | | Don't shoot the messenger: | | | FreeBSD is not useful as a desktop environment without the ability to | support Flash in a stable, well-performing fashion. gnash-devel provides flash 9 and works pretty well... | | | Running IE in Wine is not a solution. | | Running another OS in vmware to simply browse the web is not a solution. | | Free flash alternatives and flash movie players, etc., are, unfortunately, | not a solution. | | ports/linux-flashplayer9 _is_ a solution, however it (currently) fails | badly. | | | Solution: | | | First, a bounty has been posted here: | | http://blog.kozubik.com/john_kozubik/2007/12/bounty-posted-f.html | | We aren't even asking for new code, per se - anyone merely posting a | recipe that allows linux-flashplayer9 to run, without crashing and with | reasonable performance, with a generic browser (opera, firefox, konqueror) | can claim the bounty. In fact, a recipe that is entirely inside the Linux | Binary Compatibility layer would be just fine - running the linux version | of a browser through binary compat is reasonable[1]. | | Second, I am calling on the FreeBSD Foundation to commit time and money to | ensuring that flash functionality is recognized as a high priority for | FreeBSD desktop use. I am willing to donate funds for this purpose. | Flash 9 will not be the baseline forever, and it is inefficient to ramp up | a grass roots bounty effort each time Adobe releases a new product. For | this reason I believe it is reasonable for the project itself to ensure | that Flash support is delivered and maintained in a timely fashion. | | | | [1] Since we're all probably already running Linux Binary | Compat anyway... | | | ----- | John Kozubik - john@kozubik.com - http://www.kozubik.com - -- Pietro Cerutti gahr@FreeBSD.org PGP Public Key: http://gahr.ch/pgp -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEAREKAAYFAkha1zsACgkQwMJqmJVx9470WgCg4APA6m3khgf4iIsrNAXcPbM/ Pr4An10QgMMM/Oalne+GGUzO/wha1HaX =2CKx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 06:56:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC34F106567D for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 06:56:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from redbull.bpaserver.net (redbullneu.bpaserver.net [213.198.78.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 575D88FC1C for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 06:56:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p54A57359.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.115.89]) by redbull.bpaserver.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2185F2E06D; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:39:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (webmail.leidinger.net [192.168.1.102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33AD11324C9; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:39:07 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=Leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1213943947; bh=499STvLSp6FfTRDN760AFUrKvPhzs+euj VpVpCYHZhc=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References: In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=e6h99/znnBE8/jF8EJ3xrDxQ/OLwrFILmFf87CII4vP4gtGJesixYCfnJePeSbo64 9ma2DRz6dhquLXknR51+TFp7vJp7h7T+RyZpcBUmkckZ133EzV5EjGZ57AieVOkllP4 2/EVQ1gGEcz7LejL1V0wPy3ADXUmpnZA3CdVB+e1d01aIpJ2LlzSOWricy2cxQnPoU5 rXdGdF47cJBGFWVeOyaglqxBTX+9t4BKEjOiG39gKkyr2kIDLxP0/wYM5OKa10VyOLe Y4zVpisDWH7A+0lX+S6xT/JwN/F3ZXiGVDWHIZF0x5esoBpkAXbCLj8qE9X420Z7snv u/LOUQ9TA== Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m5K6d6qr044778; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:39:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.cec.eu.int (pslux.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:39:06 +0200 Message-ID: <20080620083906.71332251xw1ckmu8@webmail.leidinger.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:39:06 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: John Kozubik References: <20080619135114.Y1807@kozubik.com> In-Reply-To: <20080619135114.Y1807@kozubik.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.2-RC2) / FreeBSD-8.0 X-BPAnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-BPAnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-BPAnet-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, ORDB-RBL, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-14.9, required 6, BAYES_00 -15.00, DKIM_SIGNED 0.00, DKIM_VERIFIED -0.00, RDNS_DYNAMIC 0.10) X-BPAnet-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-Spam-Status: No X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:24:10 +0000 Cc: jamie@bishopston.net, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, narayan@neelum.com Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 06:56:49 -0000 Quoting John Kozubik (from Thu, 19 Jun 2008 =20 14:38:11 -0700 (PDT)): > First, a bounty has been posted here: > > http://blog.kozubik.com/john_kozubik/2007/12/bounty-posted-f.html > From the site: ---snip--- I will pay $200 to whoever can compose a working and stable recipe for =20 running Adobe Flash 9 inside of the FreeBSD native version of Opera 9 =20 on FreeBSD 6.x. This shouldn't be that hard - in fact, there is =20 already a linux-flashplugin9 port. ---snip--- Comments from other people with some more money not included here... And now the sad reality check: linux-flashplugin9 will _never_ work on =20 6.x (lack of linux 2.6 emulation, and this is not a MFC candidate). Getting it to work on 7.x is possible. "All what you need" is =20 nspluginwrapper to get it running in the native =20 firefox/opera/whatever, and someone who is willing to debug the =20 linuxulator (on -current, as there is a more complete 2.6 =20 compatibility there, and this can be MFCed to 7.x) and find the =20 bug/problem which is causing the crashes. Whoever is willing to tackle =20 this: head over to emulation@ (CCed) and ask what debugging =20 possibilities we have in the linuxulator. Note: AFAIK linux-flashplugin9 is not completely stable on linux either... Bye, Alexander. --=20 Leela: Well, goodnight. I'm gonna go make my dinners for the next month and freeze them. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 72077137 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 08:22:13 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85AE91065670 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:22:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rdivacky@vlk.vlakno.cz) Received: from vlakno.cz (vlk.vlakno.cz [62.168.28.247]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A5428FC25 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:22:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rdivacky@vlk.vlakno.cz) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vlakno.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72903680075; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:04:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at vlakno.cz Received: from vlakno.cz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vlk.vlakno.cz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SJZt1ZEKPV6K; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:04:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from vlk.vlakno.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vlakno.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7E5E67F704; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:04:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from rdivacky@localhost) by vlk.vlakno.cz (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m5K84GRM012747; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:04:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from rdivacky) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:04:16 +0200 From: Roman Divacky To: Alexander Leidinger Message-ID: <20080620080416.GB12112@freebsd.org> References: <20080619135114.Y1807@kozubik.com> <20080620083906.71332251xw1ckmu8@webmail.leidinger.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080620083906.71332251xw1ckmu8@webmail.leidinger.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:24:37 +0000 Cc: jamie@bishopston.net, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, John Kozubik , narayan@neelum.com Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:22:13 -0000 On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 08:39:06AM +0200, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > Quoting John Kozubik (from Thu, 19 Jun 2008 > 14:38:11 -0700 (PDT)): > > >First, a bounty has been posted here: > > > >http://blog.kozubik.com/john_kozubik/2007/12/bounty-posted-f.html > > > > From the site: > ---snip--- > I will pay $200 to whoever can compose a working and stable recipe for > running Adobe Flash 9 inside of the FreeBSD native version of Opera 9 > on FreeBSD 6.x. This shouldn't be that hard - in fact, there is > already a linux-flashplugin9 port. > ---snip--- > > Comments from other people with some more money not included here... > > And now the sad reality check: linux-flashplugin9 will _never_ work on > 6.x (lack of linux 2.6 emulation, and this is not a MFC candidate). > > Getting it to work on 7.x is possible. "All what you need" is > nspluginwrapper to get it running in the native > firefox/opera/whatever, and someone who is willing to debug the > linuxulator (on -current, as there is a more complete 2.6 > compatibility there, and this can be MFCed to 7.x) and find the > bug/problem which is causing the crashes. Whoever is willing to tackle > this: head over to emulation@ (CCed) and ask what debugging > possibilities we have in the linuxulator. I tried to debug the flash9 and failed badly. It might be that I overlooked something trivial but... the flash9 is a big binary-only monster and basically the only trace of what its doing you can get is a syscall-trace. Which is not that much useful. I didnt find any missing syscalls or something like that and the fail is a complete mystery for me.... otoh I looked at this a LOONG time ago. I might want to look at it again (after some other things settle) anyway... I dont think that flash9 crashes are related to 2.6 emulation in any way. iirc it runs (and crashes) on 2.4 as well. I remember it crashes in $the_thing_that_ff_uses_to_report_bugs which was some proprietary app which got replaced in ff3.0, you might want to check what happened. anyway - if someone wants to debug this, feel free to contact me, I am willing to help roman _ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 08:41:17 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 272351065671; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:41:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from redbull.bpaserver.net (redbullneu.bpaserver.net [213.198.78.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A64DB8FC1A; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:41:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p54A57359.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.115.89]) by redbull.bpaserver.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053992E200; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:41:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (webmail.leidinger.net [192.168.1.102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B75A133F24; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:41:08 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=Leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1213951268; bh=OD7/keunaS4EhdtnSBdZ375EaTdiM3Jb0 LW2v45U+cs=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References: In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=jA0aGf0eg5em97PsTk0ZOtLwjiFs4xPycLwcKdStM1Tk8/WGJvJql1d1aV11zIAwo /SpWvDn2owhT3v3zc7Vp7uChK/Saf2yHTrzRZidD90Z8JGT00tyUyUl7W3fNsG+oi4/ 6meN3lUEUu6R4abmoh1PGZhvlTK4wMBHwpNeCq2RHRxbpkmzgycooUvX4r7L/kTzXbq fXt03C9sWg7xoPqaHpyu4bLLaecqRrQ2t1O+FV1laaCPyGluPucIa+aQ/z/QYerXlzu m9gaCHfpbrx9dNz8fReVp63X39rkbJjQham8DSjdziyC10iA/f387iT94jm6vo6+5kx FdJpTtNkw== Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m5K8f6a7065195; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:41:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.cec.eu.int (pslux.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:41:06 +0200 Message-ID: <20080620104106.18826n68s55lwlc0@webmail.leidinger.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:41:06 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Roman Divacky References: <20080619135114.Y1807@kozubik.com> <20080620083906.71332251xw1ckmu8@webmail.leidinger.net> <20080620080416.GB12112@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <20080620080416.GB12112@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.2-RC2) / FreeBSD-8.0 X-BPAnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-BPAnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-BPAnet-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, ORDB-RBL, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-13.504, required 6, BAYES_00 -15.00, DKIM_SIGNED 0.00, DKIM_VERIFIED -0.00, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE 1.40, RDNS_DYNAMIC 0.10) X-BPAnet-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-Spam-Status: No X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:25:11 +0000 Cc: jamie@bishopston.net, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, John Kozubik , narayan@neelum.com Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:41:17 -0000 Quoting Roman Divacky (from Fri, 20 Jun 2008 =20 10:04:16 +0200): > On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 08:39:06AM +0200, Alexander Leidinger wrote: >> Quoting John Kozubik (from Thu, 19 Jun 2008 >> 14:38:11 -0700 (PDT)): >> >> >First, a bounty has been posted here: >> > >> >http://blog.kozubik.com/john_kozubik/2007/12/bounty-posted-f.html >> > >> >> From the site: >> ---snip--- >> I will pay $200 to whoever can compose a working and stable recipe for >> running Adobe Flash 9 inside of the FreeBSD native version of Opera 9 >> on FreeBSD 6.x. This shouldn't be that hard - in fact, there is >> already a linux-flashplugin9 port. >> ---snip--- >> >> Comments from other people with some more money not included here... >> >> And now the sad reality check: linux-flashplugin9 will _never_ work on >> 6.x (lack of linux 2.6 emulation, and this is not a MFC candidate). >> >> Getting it to work on 7.x is possible. "All what you need" is >> nspluginwrapper to get it running in the native >> firefox/opera/whatever, and someone who is willing to debug the >> linuxulator (on -current, as there is a more complete 2.6 >> compatibility there, and this can be MFCed to 7.x) and find the >> bug/problem which is causing the crashes. Whoever is willing to tackle >> this: head over to emulation@ (CCed) and ask what debugging >> possibilities we have in the linuxulator. > > I tried to debug the flash9 and failed badly. It might be that I overlooke= d > something trivial but... > > the flash9 is a big binary-only monster and basically the only trace > of what its doing you can get is a syscall-trace. Which is not that much I think enabling the the linuxulator debug stuff and maybe adding some =20 more printfs at some places can reveal some more stuff... with some =20 in-deep reviewing of what happens. > useful. I didnt find any missing syscalls or something like that and the > fail is a complete mystery for me.... otoh I looked at this a LOONG time a= go. Which is in indication that there are some (subtle) differences =20 between the linuxulator and the real linux we have to track down. > I might want to look at it again (after some other things settle) > > > anyway... I dont think that flash9 crashes are related to 2.6 =20 > emulation in any > way. iirc it runs (and crashes) on 2.4 as well. I remember it crashes in Hmmm... now I'm not sure anymore, but I thought we had reports that it =20 runs better with 2.6... Bye, Alexander. --=20 I wish I was a sex-starved manicurist found dead in the Bronx!! http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 72077137 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 11:58:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81AF8106566C for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:58:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from flat.berklix.org (flat.berklix.org [83.236.223.115]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EADCE8FC24 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:58:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A408A.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.64.138]) (authenticated bits=0) by flat.berklix.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m5KBwFPf081933; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:58:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m5KBw7Dp052837; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:58:07 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m5KBwCFg056442; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:58:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200806201158.m5KBwCFg056442@fire.js.berklix.net> To: John Kozubik From: "Julian Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:57:30 PDT." <20080619154909.A1807@kozubik.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:58:12 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.org Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:58:18 -0000 > From: John Kozubik > I'm not trying to discount thier efforts, but Adobe makes an honest to god > release version of flash for Linux, and FreeBSD runs linux binaries very "honest to god" != Binary Crap ! No flash on my machines without public source, checkable for security. (Unless maybe run in a jail/chroot) Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSDUnixLinux C Prog Admin SysEng Consult Munich www.berklix.com Mail just Ascii plain text. HTML & Base64 text are spam. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 12:16:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 446241065671 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:16:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr3.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr3.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.23]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 805198FC1F for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:16:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr3.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m5KC3nnW018612; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:03:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m5KC3n9H051347; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:03:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m5KC3mNR051346; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:03:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:03:48 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Julian Stacey Message-ID: <20080620120348.GA51329@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20080619154909.A1807@kozubik.com> <200806201158.m5KBwCFg056442@fire.js.berklix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200806201158.m5KBwCFg056442@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, John Kozubik Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:16:43 -0000 Quoting Julian Stacey, who wrote on Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 01:58:12PM +0200 .. > > From: John Kozubik > > I'm not trying to discount thier efforts, but Adobe makes an honest to god > > release version of flash for Linux, and FreeBSD runs linux binaries very > > "honest to god" != Binary Crap ! > No flash on my machines without public source, checkable for security. > (Unless maybe run in a jail/chroot) That is your view, others could very well be more pragmatic. I would rather have the choice to have a *full working* binary-only Flash than what we have now. I appreciate that we would strongly prefer public source access, but I doubt that will ever happen for Flash. I guess you also have not inspected the full source of (say) OO for security flaws ;-) Wilko > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey: BSDUnixLinux C Prog Admin SysEng Consult Munich www.berklix.com > Mail just Ascii plain text. HTML & Base64 text are spam. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --- end of quoted text --- -- Wilko Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 12:28:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E701065687 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:28:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from flat.berklix.org (flat.berklix.org [83.236.223.115]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F193A8FC0C for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:28:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A408A.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.64.138]) (authenticated bits=0) by flat.berklix.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m5KCS0f7084094; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:28:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m5KCRsrQ053049; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:27:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m5KCRwSu057030; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:28:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200806201228.m5KCRwSu057030@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Wilko Bulte From: "Julian Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:03:48 +0200." <20080620120348.GA51329@freebie.xs4all.nl> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:27:58 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.org Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:28:05 -0000 Wilko Bulte wrote: > Quoting Julian Stacey, who wrote on Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 01:58:12PM +0200 .. > > > From: John Kozubik > > > I'm not trying to discount thier efforts, but Adobe makes an honest to god > > > release version of flash for Linux, and FreeBSD runs linux binaries very > > > > "honest to god" != Binary Crap ! > > No flash on my machines without public source, checkable for security. > > (Unless maybe run in a jail/chroot) > > That is your view, others could very well be more pragmatic. I would rather > have the choice to have a *full working* binary-only Flash than what we > have now. Agreed. Free choice for all. Personaly Flash is too much of a PITA for me with all its problems, ever changing solutions on versions tools archs eg amd64, & risks. > I appreciate that we would strongly prefer public source access, but I doubt > that will ever happen for Flash. Could well be. Similar reasons I totaly avoid Micro$oft, whereas some use wine or native MS. > I guess you also have not inspected the > full source of (say) OO for security flaws ;-) True, I only read sources to tweak code or where manuals are bad. But fact of sources being public must discourage much evil minded coding hiding in plain view ready for dicovery, where alerts will follow. Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSDUnixLinux C Prog Admin SysEng Consult Munich www.berklix.com Mail just Ascii plain text. HTML & Base64 text are spam. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 12:39:20 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20BE21065672 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:39:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.21]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B29768FC12 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:39:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (freebie.xs4all.nl [82.95.250.254]) by smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m5KCdHsq008515; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:39:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: from freebie.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m5KCdHIa051719; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:39:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb@freebie.xs4all.nl) Received: (from wb@localhost) by freebie.xs4all.nl (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m5KCdHcp051718; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:39:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wb) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:39:17 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte To: Julian Stacey Message-ID: <20080620123917.GD51593@freebie.xs4all.nl> References: <20080620120348.GA51329@freebie.xs4all.nl> <200806201228.m5KCRwSu057030@fire.js.berklix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200806201228.m5KCRwSu057030@fire.js.berklix.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:39:20 -0000 Quoting Julian Stacey, who wrote on Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 02:27:58PM +0200 .. > Wilko Bulte wrote: > > Quoting Julian Stacey, who wrote on Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 01:58:12PM +0200 .. > > > > From: John Kozubik > > > > I'm not trying to discount thier efforts, but Adobe makes an honest to god > > > > release version of flash for Linux, and FreeBSD runs linux binaries very > > > > > > "honest to god" != Binary Crap ! > > > No flash on my machines without public source, checkable for security. > > > (Unless maybe run in a jail/chroot) > > > > That is your view, others could very well be more pragmatic. I would rather > > have the choice to have a *full working* binary-only Flash than what we > > have now. > > Agreed. Free choice for all. > Personaly Flash is too much of a PITA for me with all its problems, > ever changing solutions on versions tools archs eg amd64, & risks. And that is not even considering the total disaster it is for people with a visual handicap.. > True, I only read sources to tweak code or where manuals are bad. > But fact of sources being public must discourage much evil minded > coding hiding in plain view ready for dicovery, where alerts will > follow. Yes, you are right of course. It is good we continue to have goal to work towards 8-) take care, Wilko -- Wilko Bulte wilko@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 20 14:49:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89BC5106564A; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:49:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shildret@scotth.emsphone.com) Received: from scotth.emsphone.com (scotth.emsphone.com [199.67.51.179]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F878FC23; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:49:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shildret@scotth.emsphone.com) Received: from scotth.emsphone.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by scotth.emsphone.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5KEUbOO007596; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:30:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from shildret@scotth.emsphone.com) Received: (from shildret@localhost) by scotth.emsphone.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m5KEUbbW007595; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:30:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from shildret@scotth.emsphone.com) From: "Scott T. Hildreth" To: Alexander Leidinger In-Reply-To: <20080620083906.71332251xw1ckmu8@webmail.leidinger.net> References: <20080619135114.Y1807@kozubik.com> <20080620083906.71332251xw1ckmu8@webmail.leidinger.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:30:36 -0500 Message-Id: <1213972236.1505.14.camel@scotth.emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.12.2 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:41:25 +0000 Cc: jamie@bishopston.net, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, John Kozubik , narayan@neelum.com Subject: Re: Lack of Flash support is no longer acceptable. Bounty established... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: shildreth@allantgroup.com List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:49:15 -0000 On Fri, 2008-06-20 at 08:39 +0200, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > Quoting John Kozubik (from Thu, 19 Jun 2008 > 14:38:11 -0700 (PDT)): > > > First, a bounty has been posted here: > > > > http://blog.kozubik.com/john_kozubik/2007/12/bounty-posted-f.html > > > Maybe the bounty would be better spent here, This was from an email on the gnome list from Joe Marcus Clarke "As to the point about Flash, Kris also mentioned that he has the ear of someone at Adobe who was hinting that a capable developer willing to sign an NDA could be given code to work on a native Flash plug-in port. This could bode well for PC-BSD and FreeBSD should someone step up to do this work." > From the site: > ---snip--- > I will pay $200 to whoever can compose a working and stable recipe for > running Adobe Flash 9 inside of the FreeBSD native version of Opera 9 > on FreeBSD 6.x. This shouldn't be that hard - in fact, there is > already a linux-flashplugin9 port. > ---snip--- > > Comments from other people with some more money not included here... > > And now the sad reality check: linux-flashplugin9 will _never_ work on > 6.x (lack of linux 2.6 emulation, and this is not a MFC candidate). > > Getting it to work on 7.x is possible. "All what you need" is > nspluginwrapper to get it running in the native > firefox/opera/whatever, and someone who is willing to debug the > linuxulator (on -current, as there is a more complete 2.6 > compatibility there, and this can be MFCed to 7.x) and find the > bug/problem which is causing the crashes. Whoever is willing to tackle > this: head over to emulation@ (CCed) and ask what debugging > possibilities we have in the linuxulator. > > Note: AFAIK linux-flashplugin9 is not completely stable on linux either... > > Bye, > Alexander. >