From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 24 05:54:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9901106564A for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 05:54:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from barnaclewes@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.155]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F2D88FC1B for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 05:54:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from barnaclewes@gmail.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 16so2384018fgg.35 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:54:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=nDMJ+YXDro2I5uxPhFJTcU+gZepAo/GJjTqJD6/ceHU=; b=N1pi9EimAHgiYeueosgtKE4oeAxodu4f/kBYNCgOySoFF9AQqjMEgSaupkYJqmERJ0TZM0ff9h8tSXxcvzaTn4ShqUqEImuofrV51jsdpDwJFivQdhcl4o6PJ9PKhNHVybh3wrwYaB4A7ukZcn8tgFSP+N2RLRvXoRZgs1hsewY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=kJoamHukMK4sjnPvrv+ga3b1nZJ1lyZdEWQhsnYa5wnjqTJsHFHz7hwpxkuYUNPwZ7yDmi47YZBW5tKt8ZReUiJksezo01QpCDOuvphnEN5chjKjKKwmpyI8c6rxx65ZwWSbmLydY3N2s+EysonEIA8A68Qt5qEFhtIjvUtEJKc= Received: by 10.78.202.19 with SMTP id z19mr19011132huf.67.1206336376107; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.198.7 with HTTP; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:26:13 -0700 From: "Wes Peters" To: "Jeremie Le Hen" In-Reply-To: <20080320195012.GA66530@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <945136.92642.qm@web57010.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <20080320195012.GA66530@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> Cc: Unga , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 05:54:06 -0000 On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Jeremie Le Hen wrote: > Hi, > > > On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 07:41:30AM -0700, Unga wrote: > > Is the following book still relevant to FreeBSD 7.X > > and upcoming FreeBSD 8.X? Is there a 2nd edition > > coming soon? > > > > The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating > > System > > By Marshall Kirk McKusick, George V. Neville-Neil > > Published Aug 2, 2004 by Addison Wesley Professional. > > 1st. Edition > > ISBN-10: 0-201-70245-2 > > http://www.informit.com/title/0201702452 > > FWIW there has been rumours about the next edition of this book covering > a recenter version. That's all I know :). You could probably ask gnn@freebsd.org about that. :) -- Against stupidity the very gods Themselves contend in vain. Friedrich Schiller From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 24 07:47:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9D071065670; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:47:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from outbound0.mx.meer.net (outbound0.mx.meer.net [209.157.153.23]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45A78FC18; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:47:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from mail.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outbound0.mx.meer.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id m2O7b2i2049018; Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:37:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from mail2.meer.net (mail2.meer.net [64.13.141.16]) by mail.meer.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/meer) with ESMTP id m2O7atpG006730; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 00:36:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from eM60-254-247-73.pool.emnet.ne.jp.neville-neil.com (eM60-254-247-73.pool.emnet.ne.jp [60.254.247.73]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail2.meer.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m2O7alHd037041; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 00:36:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:36:45 +0900 Message-ID: From: "George V. Neville-Neil" To: "Wes Peters" In-Reply-To: References: <945136.92642.qm@web57010.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <20080320195012.GA66530@obiwan.tataz.chchile.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.5 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.1.50 (i386-apple-darwin8.10.1) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, Unga , Jeremie Le Hen , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:47:45 -0000 At Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:26:13 -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Jeremie Le Hen wrote: > > Hi, > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 07:41:30AM -0700, Unga wrote: > > > Is the following book still relevant to FreeBSD 7.X > > > and upcoming FreeBSD 8.X? Is there a 2nd edition > > > coming soon? > > > > > > The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating > > > System > > > By Marshall Kirk McKusick, George V. Neville-Neil > > > Published Aug 2, 2004 by Addison Wesley Professional. > > > 1st. Edition > > > ISBN-10: 0-201-70245-2 > > > http://www.informit.com/title/0201702452 > > > > FWIW there has been rumours about the next edition of this book covering > > a recenter version. That's all I know :). > > You could probably ask gnn@freebsd.org about that. :) > Actually Kirk is the boss, so he should chime in here. Best, George From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 24 16:14:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 599531065677 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:14:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Kaupthing@moloneysearch.com) Received: from Outbound.IT4YOUR.biz (outbound.it4your.biz [193.33.72.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D45D68FC12 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:14:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Kaupthing@moloneysearch.com) Received: from Outbound.IT4YOUR.BIZ (172.1.12.4) by DC-LN-EXCH3.IT4YOUR.BIZ (172.16.1.31) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.240.5; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:02:11 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:02:08 +0000 Message-ID: <98C3AB7EA78EE441893FA383EC12961C1E66AF1B@dc-ln-exch1.IT4YOUR.BIZ> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: xvynaqrwpyb Thread-Index: AciNyGlUuuLfs4HwTYKOrqxxAx+LtQAAAAT1 From: Kaupthing To: Cc: Subject: Auto-Responce X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:14:46 -0000 Thank you for your interest. We are no longer accepting applications for the Kaupthing graduate scheme 2008. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 25 22:51:51 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20175106566B for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:51:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mat@mat.cc) Received: from plouf.absolight.net (plouf.absolight.net [IPv6:2002:c11e:e088:2:c:6ebf:fe78:348]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA7458FC1B for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:51:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mat@mat.cc) Received: from plouf.absolight.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by plouf.absolight.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99E89764002; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:51:48 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=mat.cc; h=date:from:to: subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version: content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns/txt; s=plouf; bh=7 h4whmmFulfIg1tMZFyepOfLSGs=; b=jvG5OmA/GtRU2FnNwJ535qS9MWuvLOmNz h+mWfFd5AT6zngSrGhQh+jgxD+UyDugxAvZ0n29fJ46qCpx8Q/Y+51JzLzC7dlLA fthlLtVw82xbZfnwGOtahJoiiFxQj2bQcfd99QPyDN7j7ovzE0PesAPzaU0nRudu 7TpmE8nSdI= Received: from atuin.in.mat.cc (ATuin.in.mat.cc [79.143.241.205]) by plouf.absolight.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 569EE764001; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:51:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by atuin.in.mat.cc (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09082615CA5; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:51:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:51:46 +0100 From: Mathieu Arnold To: Max Laier , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <60623.192.168.4.151.1205342080.squirrel@router.laiers.local> References: <60623.192.168.4.151.1205342080.squirrel@router.laiers.local> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: Re: Office chair recommendations? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:51:51 -0000 +-Le 12/03/08 18:14 +0100, Max Laier a dit : | Hi, | | does anyone have an office chair - other than the Aeron which is a bit | over my budget - you are content with? I though since people on this list | are also in front of the screen for long times. | | In a shop I briefly sat on a HAG capisco[1] - felt surprisingly | comfortable. Does anyone have long-term experience with it? | | Thanks. | | [1] http://www.backinaction.co.uk/capisco#anc_8106 I've been using Ikea's Verksam[1] chair for years at work, and I feel perfectly happy with it. I'd settle for the leather version, which is the one I'm using and is much more resistant. (Not black though, but I've been using it for years.) [1] http://www.ikea.com/de/de/catalog/products/S29817082 -- Mathieu Arnold From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 14:42:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BD3D1065672 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:42:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.143]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 688888FC25 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:42:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 77735 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2008 14:15:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=RMu9LwunGu/DNJ7zxaWQcEEt8YD3DwrXU7AAnVtKSaJ2Y5+Je5dMe48igTWr/pxjpz1cYtyAt15L3mFvskVJKdXHpjhX6vdgp+v5AtZJzJprvd6RVWIXCdS6ZbpD/KRQOmPuzQiOP/rr3dPZqYYg/SHWXWa2l2CmJrURmy00glU=; X-YMail-OSG: iCIgpvwVM1mzsiBl.W7H4BR7zE51XRs2jaP43heNcoe8FzV2Wwr3JJ96TQ8A0c6M1APi_O.drdPSc68YI85fnleFUbf1NI5Qvg8o17UmvGAbct2Ch54- Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:15:30 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:15:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:42:12 -0000 Hi All, First post to any FreeBSD list; be gentle! ;) Where would be the right place to go looking to subscribe to a newbie level user-support list? Perhaps rephrased 'complete newbie user support list' ... LOL I'm only like 9+ months into Linux [Ubuntu desktop/server installs v.6.06.1 LTS], though with 12+ years on Windows before that {cough}. Only just finding my way around with CLI, etc, etc. Nevertheless, I wish to try to install and configure FreeBSD as a firewall and I am currently based in the South of England, should that be relevant to any response. Any/all pointers much appreciated!! The only 'official' list seems to be this: http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions But it starts off with the rather intimidating phrase "You should not send "how to" questions to the technical lists unless you consider the question to be pretty technical." Obviously all my questions are going to be pretty stupid, 'How-To' type questions, try though I might to get up to speed, I fear it's going to be some time indeed before I will graduate out of the stupid newbie type questions! Is there anything out there in the FreeBSD world that might be of help to me, or is it RTFM all the way?! {not as bad as it sounded initially, as I hear BSD is well documented?!}... Anyway - any pointers to something more at my level appreciated, if there is anything in existence. I do appreciate I'm most likely asking my first stupid question to any FreeBSD list. Doesn't seem like an OS people arrive at without first being a bit of an expert, which I am patently, not! TIA for any (polite) response at all! PP ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 15:09:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 047A31065672 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:09:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.183]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 969EB8FC16 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:09:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max@love2party.net) Received: from vampire.homelinux.org (dslb-088-066-046-062.pools.arcor-ip.net [88.66.46.62]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKwh2-1JeXFp3q4M-0008O6; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:09:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 46901 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2008 15:08:40 -0000 Received: from myhost.laiers.local (192.168.4.151) by laiers.local with SMTP; 26 Mar 2008 15:08:40 -0000 From: Max Laier Organization: FreeBSD To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:07:48 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200803261607.48697.max@love2party.net> X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/UaVvY/KKF75WHpOCPzQJq8GI2WlUttr7nnKM 9NShuvKazy+U0PYwb8K01Ats3zfLqWmac31LCsP8jAknrnUA7F 5I/RY4AqyZXzPCQjhxGCA== Cc: Passive PROFITS Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:09:32 -0000 On Wednesday 26 March 2008 15:15:30 Passive PROFITS wrote: > Where/How to get started?!? There is the very complete Handbook[1] which offers step by step instruction for almost every common task. A look at the FAQ[2] doesn't hurt - esp. if something's seemingly strange. The man pages that are installed with the normal installation are *complete* and "man intro" and "man apropos" should help to find the tools and documentation for them. You were also mentioning that you plan to setup a firewall. There we are spoiled for choice on FreeBSD. The alternatives are IPFW, PF and IPF - details in the handbook[3]. If you choose pf there are several very good tutorials available online[4] and on the bookshelfs[5]. Obviously there are printed FreeBSD handbooks as well. Esp. the newly released Absolute FreeBSD 2nd. Edition[6] is very worth the money. If you still have questions don't be afraid to ask on any FreeBSD list. Just make sure you stick to the topic, provide adequate context and show (at least a little) that you have done your homework. You'll find that the FreeBSD community in general is very helpful, even with very basic questions. Last but not least, you can check the user group listing[7] for people in your area. [1]http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ [2]http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/ [3]http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/firewalls.html [4]http://www.bsdly.net/~peter/pf.html [5]http://www.amazon.com/Book-PF-No-Nonsense-OpenBSD-Firewall/dp/1593271654/ http://www.amazon.com/OpenBSD-PF-Packet-Filter-Book/dp/0979034205/ http://www.amazon.com/Building-Firewalls-OpenBSD-PF-2nd/dp/8391665119/ [6]http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-FreeBSD-Complete-Guide-2nd/dp/1593271514/ [7]http://www.freebsd.org/usergroups.html -- /"\ Best regards, | mlaier@freebsd.org \ / Max Laier | ICQ #67774661 X http://pf4freebsd.love2party.net/ | mlaier@EFnet / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against HTML Mail and News From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 15:15:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60DC91065673 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:15:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from bunrab.catwhisker.org (adsl-63-193-123-122.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.123.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3BA8FC28 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:15:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from bunrab.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bunrab.catwhisker.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m2QEnZDW005268; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:49:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@bunrab.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by bunrab.catwhisker.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id m2QEnZoq005267; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:49:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:49:35 -0700 From: David Wolfskill To: Passive PROFITS Message-ID: <20080326144935.GN75023@bunrab.catwhisker.org> References: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LZ92CUgs0ha736zO" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:15:00 -0000 --LZ92CUgs0ha736zO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 07:15:30AM -0700, Passive PROFITS wrote: > Hi All, >=20 > First post to any FreeBSD list; be gentle! ;) >=20 > Where would be the right place to go looking to > subscribe to a newbie level user-support list?=20 > Perhaps rephrased 'complete newbie user support list' > ... LOL >... We used to have a freebsd-newbies list, but folks tended to use it for posts that ought to have gone to freebsd-questions, with a resulting bit of confusion. At this point, freebsd-questions is my recommendation for a default place to post questions about FreeBSD and using it; perhaps we should consider re-wording the "charter" for -questions to be less intimidating. Naturally, you should be prepared to redirect a message thread to a more appropriate (likely, more focused) list -- e.g., if you have a question about a specific use of IPFW, the freebsd-ipfw list wouold likely be better than -questions. One suggestion: read through archived posts before you post. You may well find what you need without needing to post at all. Peace, david (postmaster, but not really wearing that hat now) --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org I submit that "conspiracy" would be an appropriate collective noun for cats. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --LZ92CUgs0ha736zO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkfqYn4ACgkQmprOCmdXAD2XxgCggdCJ3rmTdAREvCxuZvrguaFU D5gAnjUfbvckVsTZGkdBjnyGu+vCVJcZ =MTJI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LZ92CUgs0ha736zO-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 15:25:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3118B1065671 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:25:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aw1@stade.co.uk) Received: from v-smtp-auth-relay-2.gradwell.net (v-smtp-auth-relay-2.gradwell.net [79.135.125.41]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 929C48FC12 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:25:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aw1@stade.co.uk) Received: from 5aca3ca5.bb.sky.com ([90.202.60.165] helo=access2.hanley.stade.co.uk) by v-smtp-auth-relay-2.gradwell.net with esmtp (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.288) id 47ea6761.369a.cd3; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:10:25 +0000 (envelope-sender ) Received: from steerpike.hanley.stade.co.uk (steerpike [192.168.1.10]) by access2.hanley.stade.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m2QFALxg034328; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:10:21 GMT (envelope-from aw1@steerpike.hanley.stade.co.uk) Received: from steerpike.hanley.stade.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by steerpike.hanley.stade.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2QFALJr013121; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:10:21 GMT (envelope-from aw1@steerpike.hanley.stade.co.uk) Received: (from aw1@localhost) by steerpike.hanley.stade.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m2QFAKSJ013120; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:10:20 GMT (envelope-from aw1) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:10:20 +0000 From: Adrian Wontroba To: Passive PROFITS Message-ID: <20080326151020.GA12981@steerpike.hanley.stade.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Adrian Wontroba , Passive PROFITS , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 7.0-PRERELEASE Organization: Oh dear, I've joined one again. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.91.2/6396/Wed Mar 26 11:29:12 2008 on access2.hanley.stade.co.uk X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/6396/Wed Mar 26 11:29:12 2008 on steerpike.hanley.stade.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: aw1@stade.co.uk List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:25:15 -0000 On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 07:15:30AM -0700, Passive PROFITS wrote: > The only 'official' list seems to be this: > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > But it starts off with the rather intimidating phrase > "You should not send "how to" questions to the > technical lists unless you consider the question to be > pretty technical." > or is it > RTFM all the way?! {not as bad as it sounded > initially, as I hear BSD is well documented?!}... FreeBSD is very well documented, and perusal of the handbook ( http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html ), FAQs ( http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/index.html ), man pages (apropos and man) plus searches of the mailing lists (via the FreeBSD web site and Google) will answer most guestions. Willingless to experiment helps too. When those don't work, ask in -questions, where some helpful experts hang out. -- Adrian Wontroba Disclose classified information only when a NEED TO KNOW exists. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 15:26:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3BE1065677 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:26:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (gate6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DCE38FC2C for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:26:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from lack-of-gravitas.thebunker.net (gateway.ash.thebunker.net [213.129.64.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2QFPtho098122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:25:56 GMT (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.5.0 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk m2QFPtho098122 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=200708; t=1206545156; bh=cNJX8LFzQ4ngLs U1fUh95ySkSBrrxSrU/dQUw9vfBeY=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version: To:CC:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Content-Type:Date:From:In-Reply-To: Message-ID:Mime-Version:References:To; z=Message-ID:=20<47EA6B03.5 030202@infracaninophile.co.uk>|Date:=20Wed,=2026=20Mar=202008=2015: 25:55=20+0000|From:=20Matthew=20Seaman=20|Organization:=20Infracaninophile|User-Agent:=20Thunderbird= 202.0.0.12=20(X11/20080310)|MIME-Version:=201.0|To:=20Passive=20PRO FITS=20|CC:=20freebsd-chat@freebsd.org|Su bject:=20Re:=20Newbie=20Question=20-=20about=20newbie=20user=20supp ort|References:=20<252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>|In- Reply-To:=20<252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>|X-Enigmai l-Version:=200.95.0|Content-Type:=20text/plain=3B=20charset=3DUTF-8 |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=207bit; b=UfTMaslieHtdZPCRu2wH0pnyiWWW+ VpeGTBfyo5v5ppyhib+gcNOIY8v2xZjl+fTpTRL4b6NUnt5XFAYlhjYYkAF55ONGrQK YrPvsVJy4Nm4X96CKwt//MJPYJ2PLj0toauFlYYYNpHxCWfj4Zl0bphwzmacv/f7HOj JdgpMWsA= Message-ID: <47EA6B03.5030202@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:25:55 +0000 From: Matthew Seaman Organization: Infracaninophile User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080310) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Passive PROFITS References: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.187.76.162]); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:25:56 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6396/Wed Mar 26 11:29:12 2008 on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VERIFIED,SPF_FAIL autolearn=no version=3.2.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:26:05 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 Passive PROFITS wrote: > Nevertheless, I wish to try to install and configure > FreeBSD as a firewall and I am currently based in the > South of England, should that be relevant to any > response. Any/all pointers much appreciated!! > > The only 'official' list seems to be this: > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions There's also the freebsd-user@uk.freebsd.org list, which you can sign up for here: http://listserver.uk.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-users Pretty much anything FreeBSD related seems to be fair game there. Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. Flat 3 7 Priory Courtyard PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW, UK -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREDAAYFAkfqawMACgkQ3jDkPpsZ+VY9uwCfadY0D21mR63YLzgQQtwg056Z DFgAnjAm3soLYMdIAzFu/T+nfJVGKj9k =WvLe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 15:39:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420C5106566B for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:39:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from crivens.kernel32.de (crivens.terrorteam.de [81.169.171.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 111698FC1C for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:39:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from www.terrorteam.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crivens.kernel32.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0340B0290; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:21:10 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:21:10 +0100 From: Marian Hettwer To: Passive PROFITS In-Reply-To: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: mh@kernel32.de User-Agent: RoundCube Webmail/0.1-rc2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:39:33 -0000 Hi, there was already a very complete response from Max, however, I'd like to comment one part anyway, On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Passive PROFITS wrote: > Anyway - any pointers to something more at my level > appreciated, if there is anything in existence. I do > appreciate I'm most likely asking my first stupid > question to any FreeBSD list. Doesn't seem like an OS > people arrive at without first being a bit of an > expert, which I am patently, not! > Don't be afraid, IMO FreeBSD is not an OS where you need to be a Unix expert before. In fact, I switched from the Windows World (used from 1990 - yeah, Dr DOS, MS DOS - to 1998) directly to the FreeBSD world. Not even a pit-stop with any Linux distribution. So I started using FreeBSD without any unix know-how. Whut? I have to build a kernel? How? Why? Heeelp. Stick to the handbook, ask polite questions and you'll be up and running :-) After learning how to use a Unix system with FreeBSD, I was forced to use some Linux distributions (forced by my employer, compensated by a big check). However, I always came back to FreeBSD. It's just my Unix of choice, and probably it will always be :) To cut it short: Don't be afraid, just start reading the handbook, it really helps. freebsd-questions@ will be the mailing list of choice to ask questions. best regards, Marian PS.: In fact, learning how to use FreeBSD helped me big times to understand how to operate Linux systems. Nowadays I'm babysitting approx 600 linux boxes (Debian) at work. However, my desktop at work still is a FreeBSD box :) [mah@siteop-26] <~>uname -a [16:19:43 on 08-03-26] FreeBSD siteop-26.mobile.rz 7.0-STABLE FreeBSD 7.0-STABLE #0: Wed Mar 12 11:42:44 CET 2008 root@siteop-26:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 15:47:23 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 323C3106566C for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:47:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-chat-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: from be-well.ilk.org (dsl092-078-145.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.78.145]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 028D08FC1C for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:47:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-chat-local@be-well.ilk.org) Received: by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id 1402A28473; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:27:34 -0400 (EDT) To: Passive PROFITS References: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Lowell Gilbert Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:27:34 -0400 In-Reply-To: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> (Passive PROFITS's message of "Wed\, 26 Mar 2008 07\:15\:30 -0700 \(PDT\)") Message-ID: <44bq518pzt.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:47:23 -0000 In addition to the extensive comments you've already gotten from Max Laier, I'd like to provide one comment... Passive PROFITS writes: > The only 'official' list seems to be this: > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > But it starts off with the rather intimidating phrase > "You should not send "how to" questions to the > technical lists unless you consider the question to be > pretty technical." Freebsd-questions is *not* considered a technical list in that statement. When in doubt, it is the *first* place to ask your question. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 16:00:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F6D1065674 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:00:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from bunrab.catwhisker.org (adsl-63-193-123-122.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.123.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42F28FC24 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:00:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from bunrab.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bunrab.catwhisker.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m2QG0FJR005557 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:00:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@bunrab.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by bunrab.catwhisker.org (8.13.3/8.13.1/Submit) id m2QG0Ft5005556 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:00:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Resent-Message-Id: <200803261600.m2QG0Ft5005556@bunrab.catwhisker.org> Received: from janus.catwhisker.org (janus.catwhisker.org [172.16.8.1]) by bunrab.catwhisker.org (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m2QFrsxR005478 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:53:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.144]) by janus.catwhisker.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id m2QFrOFj063901 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:53:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 62523 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2008 15:53:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=zu/+f+bC7bfpdbscqQWiHr2IA8OWv11bB66CWthKOvmmlT4Iqj/yiEa4RLcibThP6JvfAmHOypGgZJRieKguwFdiTo+QpqF0rJi8BpT3tow+eEmNa9TryPlBx6sDa3nV6unrBSKaSI3frbyMpb/6jR6RrMEoK31UfjIRKi9TTE4=; X-YMail-OSG: pIvzv9IVM1lNpcR8oGZpUHLeXajx9GyL3MVlJh0hU7KSQ9dgrJSfdWkcuzOeqF9d9wXvJj_EtxXWaQjXIGvtKGTK.v93SQLC7L2HfFLliAjpW.LQZ74- Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:53:23 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:53:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: David Wolfskill In-Reply-To: <20080326144935.GN75023@bunrab.catwhisker.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <655745.62400.qm@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Resent-From: david@catwhisker.org Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:00:14 -0700 Resent-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:00:16 -0000 --- David Wolfskill wrote: > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 07:15:30AM -0700, Passive > PROFITS wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > First post to any FreeBSD list; be gentle! ;) > > > > Where would be the right place to go looking to > > subscribe to a newbie level user-support list? > > Perhaps rephrased 'complete newbie user support > list' > > ... LOL > >... > > We used to have a freebsd-newbies list, but folks > tended to use it for > posts that ought to have gone to freebsd-questions, > with a resulting bit > of confusion. > > At this point, freebsd-questions is my > recommendation for a default > place to post questions about FreeBSD and using it; Thanks for this confirmation. It only seems obvious when you already know the answer! > perhaps we should > consider re-wording the "charter" for -questions to > be less > intimidating. I think you should. This has been my second visit up there. I would likely have tried an install before now, if I'd have thought there be some user support available in 'them thar hills' (sic). As it was, I just decided to go for it anyway, whether there was any user support, or just the manual! I guess I'm not a 'normie', though a 'newbie'! It was that people might not realise this perception that I thought to post mine; you only get a chance at a first impression once, and mine was of the variety "P*ss off - unless you already know what you are talking about". Not friendly, which is quite apposite when considering just how many kind, helpful and friendly responses my first post to this list has engendered! Just a FWIW, anyway. > Naturally, you should be prepared to redirect a > message thread to a more > appropriate (likely, more focused) list -- e.g., if > you have a question > about a specific use of IPFW, the freebsd-ipfw list > wouold likely be > better than -questions. OK - got it. > One suggestion: read through archived posts before > you post. You may > well find what you need without needing to post at > all. OK - got it! ;) > Peace, > david (postmaster, but not really wearing that hat > now) Nice to meet you! :) Best, PP > -- > David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org > I submit that "conspiracy" would be an appropriate > collective noun for cats. > > See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg > for my public key. > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 16:19:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC92106564A for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:19:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.142]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1151A8FC20 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:19:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 71832 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2008 16:19:55 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=Ss3wawgxkKGwMDTn/NELYICa1N8LsX/hz1AvZVCRyuU+kEif3CTsoPF5LjVqKpHXUdktJ8d+65nrcFXoqsoOcdhcP0e4MuPy0ESsyj1oe941twl0VwCp1RpHptcbtqdcfE/DIgcanXtu1ywhydN0WGO2xzANZG0OM6ZMW4S0LlI=; X-YMail-OSG: WZmRpOgVM1ke4fZmkKnIvOF.aCxy9SYIoN3ycHH4LQVuO5h0VC5uQYXgUEF2mOEdIExJIxMOeuTWF.XsFoBKIL2ouz49kS222YfsbNMvEo3acclwaqg- Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:19:55 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:19:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200803261607.48697.max@love2party.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <431299.70936.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:19:56 -0000 Hi Max/All who responded to this post, Thanks for this detailed help; just what I was looking for on my first day! Thanks all, won't tie up the list thanking all who posted individually, but 'Thanks!'! ;) I've just (I hope successfully) subbed to the UK FreeBSD list. Now I am aware of the use of freeBSD-questions, if anyone can save me the couple of weeks/month time lurking; how does one use the UK list - is it for user support, fun, a bit of both, etc, etc? i.e. where does it fit into use, compared to the questions list. As you can see, I'm trying to accelerate the way(s) in which I can find my way around the FreeBSD/BSD community here, without irritating a large number of people (or well, hopefully not!!) ... One point that came out from the replies I would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on; using FreeBSD as a firewall, when I don't really know my way around the OS to start with. Not forgetting (for even a second!) that I'm basically new to Linux anyway, is this really an issue? I mean like, of course it would be better for me to understand the OS of any 'puter I'm using, but as the only OS I really have any (bad) understanding of is Windows (and then despite, rather than because of MS's efforts), surely I'm in about exactly the same boat using/learning to use FreeBSD as a firewall, as I am using Linux? Maybe my earlier understanding was actually a misunderstanding? I was led to believe FreeBSD (BSD) comes installed 'wrapped down' ... That I sort of have to 'unlock' stuff that I want to use, as I go along. Thus, from where I am sat now, anyway, it would seem that I may as well plough into trying to get my head around FreeBSD as a firewall now, rather than stick with Linux, of which I am just about equally ignorant! FWIW, I am only experienced with putting together firewalls in Ubuntu using a GUI (Firestarter). I do not seem to have come across problems using that combo (IPtables? + Firestarter GUI). Anyway - I can see the point you make, but can see no way around it other than to not start to learn BSD ... At some point I've got to get past the 'complete idiot' stage, right?! And today is as good as any other!?! Any thoughts appreciated! Best, PP --- Max Laier wrote: > On Wednesday 26 March 2008 15:15:30 Passive PROFITS > wrote: > > Where/How to get started?!? > > There is the very complete Handbook[1] which offers > step by step > instruction for almost every common task. A look at > the FAQ[2] doesn't > hurt - esp. if something's seemingly strange. The > man pages that are > installed with the normal installation are > *complete* and "man intro" > and "man apropos" should help to find the tools and > documentation for > them. > > You were also mentioning that you plan to setup a > firewall. There we are > spoiled for choice on FreeBSD. The alternatives are > IPFW, PF and IPF - > details in the handbook[3]. If you choose pf there > are several very good > tutorials available online[4] and on the > bookshelfs[5]. > > Obviously there are printed FreeBSD handbooks as > well. Esp. the newly > released Absolute FreeBSD 2nd. Edition[6] is very > worth the money. > > If you still have questions don't be afraid to ask > on any FreeBSD list. > Just make sure you stick to the topic, provide > adequate context and show > (at least a little) that you have done your > homework. You'll find that > the FreeBSD community in general is very helpful, > even with very basic > questions. > > Last but not least, you can check the user group > listing[7] for people in > your area. > > [1]http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ > [2]http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/ > [3]http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/firewalls.html > [4]http://www.bsdly.net/~peter/pf.html > [5]http://www.amazon.com/Book-PF-No-Nonsense-OpenBSD-Firewall/dp/1593271654/ > > http://www.amazon.com/OpenBSD-PF-Packet-Filter-Book/dp/0979034205/ > > http://www.amazon.com/Building-Firewalls-OpenBSD-PF-2nd/dp/8391665119/ > [6]http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-FreeBSD-Complete-Guide-2nd/dp/1593271514/ > [7]http://www.freebsd.org/usergroups.html > > -- > /"\ Best regards, | > mlaier@freebsd.org > \ / Max Laier | ICQ > #67774661 > X http://pf4freebsd.love2party.net/ | > mlaier@EFnet > / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Against > HTML Mail and News > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 16:42:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1BFA106566B for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:42:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from crivens.kernel32.de (crivens.terrorteam.de [81.169.171.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6998FC1F for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:42:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from www.terrorteam.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crivens.kernel32.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2768B0290; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:42:21 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:42:21 +0100 From: Marian Hettwer To: Passive PROFITS In-Reply-To: <431299.70936.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <431299.70936.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: mh@kernel32.de User-Agent: RoundCube Webmail/0.1-rc2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:42:29 -0000 Hi there, On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:19:55 -0700 (PDT), Passive PROFITS wrote: > > FWIW, I am only experienced with putting together > firewalls in Ubuntu using a GUI (Firestarter). I do > not seem to have come across problems using that combo > (IPtables? + Firestarter GUI). > I'm actually not aware wether there is a gui to plug together a firewall ruleset based on pf(4). That said, I suggest to use pf as the packet filter of choice. It's a great one. Get a first impression about pf(4) by reading the handbook (http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/firewalls-pf.html) or by reading man pfctl. As a newbie, you should start with the handbook :) Obviously you should have an idea what a packet filter (buzzword is firewall) does. A good understanding on how tcp and networking works is preferred for a good configuration. Another way of just having a FreeBSD + pf based firewall would be using pfsense (http://www.pfsense.org/) which is in my understanding a FreeBSD live CD with a nice webfrontend to configure your router/firewall. It really depends on what you want to do... wanna learn how to setup a packet filter in a unix environment? Go with FreeBSD. Wanna have a nearly out of the box firewall, go with pfsense. I'd prefer the FreeBSD way, because it's always good to understand what the heck is going on under the hood :) Anyway, welcome on board and happy experimenting. regards, Marian From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 16:58:24 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B766D106567B for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:58:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sequethin@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.240]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730868FC1D for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:58:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sequethin@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c14so14093anc.13 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:58:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=IDWcq1L3xEzKhNuIlEl2ot+LCDnZTchVA0lwPiBin4s=; b=jJNW8QZPam9dy1F8NuTB1bniL9m30Dky5b0IIIeAoj3sYrVgJAQ4ZKvCBp87VZxTpE9rDq2O3F0zmstZPvnu5nVDKeFNswQYCk8B2twnnyKsAEe1bNrlg9lWba1nWKasRBv3SORWnnuX8iWuCRd1L+fFGEZ4ClkblR3FJGCyPfM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; b=naCUfroS2YIW1GndotdJAYbFyOZ0nBYJJs/pXrD+LUraP8QelLD6xHqNVdtoXnCwY2dTm1L3ZfYR1IL+dBzWOQiqk9JQXluLSMvnGE+IHPjh0XCz2kGWD7QWEN8Je9Pl4HEkbGlxHAgd1QNzDC79PZOvHKDqkR7ulZrwMqu4uCw= Received: by 10.100.164.10 with SMTP id m10mr405540ane.14.1206548960792; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.1.0.39? ( [204.107.76.229]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 18sm14060520agb.36.2008.03.26.09.29.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5791661F-6060-458C-8E49-B7299715B0E9@gmail.com> From: Michael Hernandez To: Passive PROFITS In-Reply-To: <431299.70936.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:29:15 -0400 References: <431299.70936.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.919.2) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:58:24 -0000 you may want to check out monowall :) http://m0n0.ch/wall/ --Mike H From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 17:06:24 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 266C6106566B for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:06:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from a.j.werven@student.utwente.nl) Received: from mx.utwente.nl (unknown [IPv6:2001:610:1908:1000:204:23ff:feb7:b8fe]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B46D8FC15 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:06:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from a.j.werven@student.utwente.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (vpn181210.student.utwente.nl [130.89.181.210]) by mx.utwente.nl (8.12.10/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id m2QFAiNN023066; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:10:45 +0100 Message-ID: <47EA6774.2060206@student.utwente.nl> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:10:44 +0000 From: "Alphons \"Fonz\" van Werven" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Passive PROFITS References: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UTwente-MailScanner-Information: Scanned by MailScanner. Contact servicedesk@icts.utwente.nl for more information. X-UTwente-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-UTwente-MailScanner-From: a.j.werven@student.utwente.nl X-Spam-Status: No Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:06:24 -0000 Passive PROFITS wrote: > The only 'official' list seems to be this: > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions That's the one, indeed. > But it starts off with the rather intimidating phrase > "You should not send "how to" questions to the > technical lists unless you consider the question to be > pretty technical." That's a standard remark on an automagically generated page. It applies to other, more technical lists involving current development. It's perhaps a bit unfortunate that it appears on the pages for all FreeBSD lists, including the ones it doesn't apply to. But don't let it scare you off: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org (or -questions for short) is the list you are looking for. See you there, Alphons -- All right, that does it Bill [Donahue]. I'm pretty sure that killing Jesus is not very Christian. -- pope Benedict XVI, South Park episode #158 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 17:08:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB2D31065672 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:08:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.143]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C4BCB8FC29 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:08:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 25675 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2008 17:08:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=La/pqie7O2F1/xV1C9mVBKsKeUGedVfXtlEfYTWscM/bkhibkYJSmyPDiZOqyXWRtsr+EHOUCmqydyNcLb1dEUq+XvzR5b1QGzbEyjFRvAT1FX9z/78qRKsEpbXF35Udx4ovtqUj7sA0v0cwq13CVxTymr+vBmg+mfLqHf7bleM=; X-YMail-OSG: p9kEtrYVM1lNHuPXvRRifd80Ko1c2hMXxzSMLhuc Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:08:43 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:08:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: Marian Hettwer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <952143.25012.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:08:45 -0000 Hi there Marian! First off, I must point out that it's incredibly nice to have met my first female (I assume correctly!?) on a computer related list. Long rumoured about ... Finally! Unlike the Yeti: actually spotted! LMAO More below! :) --- Marian Hettwer wrote: > Hi there, > > On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:19:55 -0700 (PDT), Passive > PROFITS > wrote: > > > > FWIW, I am only experienced with putting together > > firewalls in Ubuntu using a GUI (Firestarter). I > do > > not seem to have come across problems using that > combo > > (IPtables? + Firestarter GUI). > > > I'm actually not aware wether there is a gui to plug > together a firewall > ruleset based on pf(4). > That said, I suggest to use pf as the packet filter > of choice. It's a great > one. > Get a first impression about pf(4) by reading the > handbook > (http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/firewalls-pf.html) > or by reading man pfctl. > As a newbie, you should start with the handbook :) OK, OK - I'm not averse to a handbook or two ;) And I am not trying to short-circuit that route. I am on handbook overload though, what with trying to get my head around Linux, and now FreeBSD, too! I need to slow down a little. I've wanted a Linux install for like years, before Ubuntu came along, and now I've got all those years lost, to catch up on ... Not all tonight, I realise! ;) > Obviously you should have an idea what a packet > filter (buzzword is > firewall) does. A good understanding on how tcp and > networking works is > preferred for a good configuration. I've got some very basic understanding (no technical understanding) of your basic POST & GET, from doing a very little webmastering some years ago. I also 'get' the idea that different protocols have different default ports through which they usually operate. Past that though, I'm basically in need of going right to the start, and not skipping anything!! I'm in this long-term though, so won't be complaining. > Another way of just having a FreeBSD + pf based > firewall would be using > pfsense (http://www.pfsense.org/) which is in my > understanding a FreeBSD > live CD with a nice webfrontend to configure your > router/firewall. Thanks for that, and the other recommendation from another. I may find that I get one of these firewalls 'out of the box' working, then install a 'proper' install on another machine to play with/learn on, etc. At the moment, I've only just burned the disks, and found that there is indeedy (sic) a huge and detailed manual that should help me get up to speed with just about everything, judging by how comprehensive it seems! > It really depends on what you want to do... wanna > learn how to setup a > packet filter in a unix environment? Go with > FreeBSD. Wanna have a nearly > out of the box firewall, go with pfsense. > > I'd prefer the FreeBSD way, because it's always good > to understand what the > heck is going on under the hood :) I agree, though as stated, I'm like on 'new info overload, like, every day!'. I can take in a lot, quickly, but I must admit even I choked a little when I decided to try get some understanding of FreeBSD at the same time as Linux Ubuntu ... I'm sort of hoping that learning one will speed the learning of the other, not confuse me too much! That's the hope, anyway! > Anyway, welcome on board and happy experimenting. And let me say a big thanks for the warm welcome. I must admit I wasn't too sure if I was only going to elicit a few flames from my original post. Happy, like, now I am. Realising there is some support, even if only moral (though it seems far from that!! ;)). Best, PP > regards, > Marian > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 17:10:31 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF1E1065671 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:10:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.141]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C4FB48FC1D for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:10:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 89875 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2008 17:10:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=2apgSw+H//30YoY6SH2x9J8T19tFzbKrS36MCuT7icfua7J8IVW1W7/eCgLOOXnnRk7LAOt0TlSeTcoHnp5jMCQjW8FGyjzRCBh1mHBn9h5htSBvZ8Yl42JMut6nrF5oEzeIpYnCP4VPYFL92PeFOK11vkkmt9wi+iO19rzJKbk=; X-YMail-OSG: otY4uTcVM1nZqVy1rDx_M7UYiGWnMKI70bDkCfCugXzSXa3PSyicHB3hj06Z_8y8SeCUcqzUYCGEC1_AAvK3kMG.Wzer8evLgZ_7AB_7em9MnZxFzJc- Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:10:29 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:10:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: Michael Hernandez In-Reply-To: <5791661F-6060-458C-8E49-B7299715B0E9@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <983531.88348.qm@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:10:31 -0000 Thanks Michael - will do! ;) Best, PP --- Michael Hernandez wrote: > you may want to check out monowall :) > > http://m0n0.ch/wall/ > > --Mike H > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 17:41:24 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE34A1065674 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:41:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from crivens.kernel32.de (crivens.terrorteam.de [81.169.171.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6920E8FC27 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:41:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mh@kernel32.de) Received: from www.terrorteam.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crivens.kernel32.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82B15B0290; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:41:22 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:41:22 +0100 From: Marian Hettwer To: Passive PROFITS In-Reply-To: <952143.25012.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <952143.25012.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9624c92ace117984b763b29f2c2bb3e5@localhost> X-Sender: mh@kernel32.de User-Agent: RoundCube Webmail/0.1-rc2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:41:24 -0000 Hi there, On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:08:43 -0700 (PDT), Passive PROFITS wrote: > Hi there Marian! > > First off, I must point out that it's incredibly nice > to have met my first female (I assume correctly!?) on > a computer related list. Long rumoured about ... > Finally! Unlike the Yeti: actually spotted! LMAO > Sorry to burst that bubble, but Marian is actually a male name. German version of latin Marius. I know, it's a very uncommon name and yes, it happens from time to time that people think it's a female name. ;-) > > --- Marian Hettwer wrote: > >> Hi there, >> >> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:19:55 -0700 (PDT), Passive >> PROFITS >> wrote: >> > >> > FWIW, I am only experienced with putting together >> > firewalls in Ubuntu using a GUI (Firestarter). I >> do >> > not seem to have come across problems using that >> combo >> > (IPtables? + Firestarter GUI). >> > >> I'm actually not aware wether there is a gui to plug >> together a firewall >> ruleset based on pf(4). >> That said, I suggest to use pf as the packet filter >> of choice. It's a great >> one. >> Get a first impression about pf(4) by reading the >> handbook >> > (http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/firewalls-pf.html) >> or by reading man pfctl. >> As a newbie, you should start with the handbook :) > > OK, OK - I'm not averse to a handbook or two ;) And I > am not trying to short-circuit that route. I am on > handbook overload though, what with trying to get my > head around Linux, and now FreeBSD, too! I need to > slow down a little. I've wanted a Linux install for > like years, before Ubuntu came along, and now I've got > all those years lost, to catch up on ... Not all > tonight, I realise! ;) > I didn't even know that ubuntu has a handbook ;-) >> Obviously you should have an idea what a packet >> filter (buzzword is >> firewall) does. A good understanding on how tcp and >> networking works is >> preferred for a good configuration. > > I've got some very basic understanding (no technical > understanding) of your basic POST & GET, from doing a > very little webmastering some years ago. I also 'get' > the idea that different protocols have different > default ports through which they usually operate. > Past that though, I'm basically in need of going right > to the start, and not skipping anything!! I'm in this > long-term though, so won't be complaining. > As a starter, I'd say, take a look at the wikipedia.org article about tcp/ip. It's worth it. Cause if you don't know what you're doing, you won't find mistakes. No offense ment. It happened to me too. Just followed a howto and then, holy crap, it just doesn't work. And since I didn't know what I was typing, cause I just followed the howto, obviously I couldn't spot the mistake _in_ this howto. Lesson learned: Try to understand what you're doing :) >> Another way of just having a FreeBSD + pf based >> firewall would be using >> pfsense (http://www.pfsense.org/) which is in my >> understanding a FreeBSD >> live CD with a nice webfrontend to configure your >> router/firewall. > > Thanks for that, and the other recommendation from > another. I may find that I get one of these firewalls > 'out of the box' working, then install a 'proper' > install on another machine to play with/learn on, etc. Sounds like a good plan to me. best regards, Marian, still male, sorry 'bout that ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 18:15:22 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3029A106566C for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:15:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sequethin@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.245]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC978FC1B for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:15:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sequethin@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c14so22510anc.13 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:15:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=4cp1OunOduhKA0L83FPWhNT1uEHvRadVgjq3G40T6h0=; b=iuSviBZCRWK33EikK158uDlJV6s794aGSTQJnJwUEvVkuU5DAqD1KRm7P28T2wdy8Takv4zhnNm2+JxoWEo2TbEQop+jcMU7oSs3GJU6caUflex63gX/Sb39p7YApcmgdlRMIGoz5Al/DILmdFwsXGV43zVF7DGaubrDTVefqXc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; b=eqWCZ/3dv3sAjlMMa3ZjpfZrHZkninhYTo2ZW07ZFoxtKQVna37xZAWfFgv/rt40XK3qaEzVyFFYS13hfGCE92qyqMArNAPF73sgPWZLcZidIgl2wq1bVGi1tnbBv6UQCW5FCZJRpyMZlzd24FwCTp1M4tdQ+PARNnwaALTgxR4= Received: by 10.100.41.9 with SMTP id o9mr576277ano.42.1206553757777; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.1.0.39? ( [204.107.76.229]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d35sm460181and.3.2008.03.26.10.49.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2BC399ED-D32E-44D0-B2C2-A3FE3BF47C28@gmail.com> From: Michael Hernandez To: Passive PROFITS In-Reply-To: <9624c92ace117984b763b29f2c2bb3e5@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:49:11 -0400 References: <952143.25012.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <9624c92ace117984b763b29f2c2bb3e5@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.919.2) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:15:22 -0000 On Mar 26, 2008, at 1:41 PM, Marian Hettwer wrote: > Hi there, > > > On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:08:43 -0700 (PDT), Passive PROFITS > wrote: >> Hi there Marian! >> >> First off, I must point out that it's incredibly nice >> to have met my first female (I assume correctly!?) on >> a computer related list. Long rumoured about ... >> Finally! Unlike the Yeti: actually spotted! LMAO >> > Sorry to burst that bubble, but Marian is actually a male name. German > version of latin Marius. > I know, it's a very uncommon name and yes, it happens from time to > time > that people think it's a female name. > ;-) Passive - Let me pass along a lesson to you that you may have yet to learn: There are no women on the Internet. It's true, just ask google. haha ;) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 20:30:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30CAE1065688 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:30:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz (southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC2208FC18 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:30:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2QKUNpU075811; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:30:23 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daleco.biz Received: from ezekiel.daleco.biz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ezekiel.daleco.biz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Dc7FJ4g9BHl7; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:30:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from archangel.daleco.biz (dsl.daleco.biz [209.125.108.70]) by ezekiel.daleco.biz (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m2QKUG7x075802; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:30:17 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Message-ID: <47EAB256.1090101@daleco.biz> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:30:14 -0500 From: Kevin Kinsey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20080213 SeaMonkey/1.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Hernandez References: <952143.25012.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <9624c92ace117984b763b29f2c2bb3e5@localhost> <2BC399ED-D32E-44D0-B2C2-A3FE3BF47C28@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <2BC399ED-D32E-44D0-B2C2-A3FE3BF47C28@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:30:29 -0000 Michael Hernandez wrote: > > On Mar 26, 2008, at 1:41 PM, Marian Hettwer wrote: > >> Hi there, >> >> >> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:08:43 -0700 (PDT), Passive PROFITS >> wrote: >>> Hi there Marian! >>> >>> First off, I must point out that it's incredibly nice >>> to have met my first female (I assume correctly!?) on >>> a computer related list. Long rumoured about ... >>> Finally! Unlike the Yeti: actually spotted! LMAO >>> >> Sorry to burst that bubble, but Marian is actually a male name. German >> version of latin Marius. >> I know, it's a very uncommon name and yes, it happens from time to time >> that people think it's a female name. >> ;-) > > > Passive - Let me pass along a lesson to you that you may have yet to learn: > > There are no women on the Internet. > > It's true, just ask google. > > haha ;) [530] Wed 26.Mar.2008 15:23:19 [kadmin@archangel][~] grep -c "Dru " /usr/src/games/fortune/datfiles/freebsd-tips 34 I wonder if Ms. Lavigne would agree? I guess no one on IRC[1] has expressed regret at (having|!having) any dealings with her? :-P KDK -- Crime does not pay... as well as politics. -- A. E. Neuman [1] http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=there+are+no+women+on+the+internet From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 21:04:20 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E65B106567C for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:04:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.144]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 43CA38FC31 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:04:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 30078 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2008 21:04:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=UDwSKQKDJPzQcGKwwH1heTMQlq8th4KAcMcvFEA2RKIPFxpxqJiTc4CGluGiHXCm45R4u5JA3+LvZauOiNJrd4V9LY8Spyekx8oL2+r0vNyaR8jlgETqscbFCRnthmgN6WtE0ywqg5JG9ZEdY4bTvLXHWcHwyDwmQqeWB1c3r4k=; X-YMail-OSG: 1et7K30VM1mfoiyphpRmRpeA9oYd90EtpHAak.EzhMZDJgAYy2knxmX09RzNEm3FxDBvdk1oNouX8A.AYzU.uv4JYVc.wrT0Fza979oe8qT6awK1Nns- Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:04:18 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:04:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: Marian Hettwer In-Reply-To: <9624c92ace117984b763b29f2c2bb3e5@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <23087.29636.qm@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:04:20 -0000 --- Marian Hettwer wrote: > Hi there, Hi there! :) > On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:08:43 -0700 (PDT), Passive > PROFITS > wrote: > > Hi there Marian! > > > > First off, I must point out that it's incredibly > nice > > to have met my first female (I assume correctly!?) > on > > a computer related list. Long rumoured about ... > > Finally! Unlike the Yeti: actually spotted! LMAO > > > Sorry to burst that bubble, Damn, and so quickly! but Marian is actually a > male name. German > version of latin Marius. > I know, it's a very uncommon name and yes, it > happens from time to time > that people think it's a female name. > ;-) I've only just realised from a few other off-list messages from others overseas to the UK, that the list is more global, than European, even. Why this didn't dawn on me earlier is beyond me, as of course I'd just joined the UK FreeBSD list; what an idiot, hey!?! Hope I didn't cause any offence! I do know that it can be used by both males, and females, though had no idea of the root, if you forgive the possible pun, this being a Unix(?) list! ;) More below. > > --- Marian Hettwer wrote: > > > >> Hi there, > >> > >> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:19:55 -0700 (PDT), Passive > >> PROFITS > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > FWIW, I am only experienced with putting > together > >> > firewalls in Ubuntu using a GUI (Firestarter). > I > >> do > >> > not seem to have come across problems using > that > >> combo > >> > (IPtables? + Firestarter GUI). > >> > > >> I'm actually not aware wether there is a gui to > plug > >> together a firewall > >> ruleset based on pf(4). > >> That said, I suggest to use pf as the packet > filter > >> of choice. It's a great > >> one. > >> Get a first impression about pf(4) by reading the > >> handbook > >> > > > (http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/firewalls-pf.html) > >> or by reading man pfctl. > >> As a newbie, you should start with the handbook > :) > > > > OK, OK - I'm not averse to a handbook or two ;) > And I > > am not trying to short-circuit that route. I am > on > > handbook overload though, what with trying to get > my > > head around Linux, and now FreeBSD, too! I need > to > > slow down a little. I've wanted a Linux install > for > > like years, before Ubuntu came along, and now I've > got > > all those years lost, to catch up on ... Not all > > tonight, I realise! ;) > > > I didn't even know that ubuntu has a handbook ;-) Oh there's Ubuntu handbooks all over the place now: if only I could afford ten! > >> Obviously you should have an idea what a packet > >> filter (buzzword is > >> firewall) does. A good understanding on how tcp > and > >> networking works is > >> preferred for a good configuration. > > > > I've got some very basic understanding (no > technical > > understanding) of your basic POST & GET, from > doing a > > very little webmastering some years ago. I also > 'get' > > the idea that different protocols have different > > default ports through which they usually operate. > > Past that though, I'm basically in need of going > right > > to the start, and not skipping anything!! I'm in > this > > long-term though, so won't be complaining.the > > > As a starter, I'd say, take a look at the > wikipedia.org article about > tcp/ip. Will-do. I must admit I use it a lot for getting to grips with the basics of some stuff, most recently rescued by it's RAID sections, and also quite a bit about hardware, which were/are invaluable. I suppose I should 'fess up at this point that I'm a total newbie when it comes to hardware skills; though have been learning hard since January of this year. Before Jan, I'd only ever stared longingly at RAM chips in situ - dreaming of higher and higher capacities! > It's worth it. Cause if you don't know what you're > doing, you won't find > mistakes. > No offense ment. Don't worry - none taken. I came here in the hope to learn! And learning where to start learning, is always a great start! ;) If you don't ask ... It happened to me too. > Just followed a howto and then, holy crap, it just > doesn't work. > And since I didn't know what I was typing, cause I > just followed the howto, > obviously I couldn't spot the mistake _in_ this > howto. > Lesson learned: Try to understand what you're doing > :) I'm trying to do that as much as possible. It's great that FOSS actually documents how things work (well, sometimes! ;) ) ... Has switch a blue bar, for a screen of stuff I don't understand, but can try start to, at least! :) I spent like 10 years failing to write a simple batch file in Windows ... Yet, with only another few handbooks to go (bash scripting, I think?!) ... My, I'll actually be able to get a computer to do something for a change, other than require me to mouse into and over it 24/7/365! :) > >> Another way of just having a FreeBSD + pf based > >> firewall would be using > >> pfsense (http://www.pfsense.org/) which is in my > >> understanding a FreeBSD > >> live CD with a nice webfrontend to configure your > >> router/firewall. > > > > Thanks for that, and the other recommendation from > > another. I may find that I get one of these > firewalls > > 'out of the box' working, then install a 'proper' > > install on another machine to play with/learn on, > etc. > Sounds like a good plan to me. Yes - it increasingly sounds like a good plan to me, too, one that I should be able to get away with for at least a few weeks with what I've now got 'lying around', hardware-wise, for such use, thanks to the kind generosity of the folks in my local LUG, mainly! I am sure the donee won't mind me jumping ship for a couple of weeks learning about the 'other half'. One question which will seem (but isn't to me) unrelated: does a program called 'heartbeat' work with Apache on FreeBSD? If it does you see, now, I might get myself two FreeBSD machines to learn heartbeat with, rather than two Linux /Ubuntu machines .... Wow - for the first time in my life, a real choice between *three* operating systems! {drools - all the way down his chin; falls over with the shock of it} Best, PP > > best regards, > Marian, still male, sorry 'bout that ;-) I always look on the bright side Marian; the hunt for the Yeti is still on!!! ... *one* day, maybe just *one* day, a 'real woman' on a 'real computer discussion list' will pop out of the woodwork and say 'Boo!'; you just never, never know! ;) LOL It'll just have to remain like those fishing stories: the one that nearly was - the fight was long and hard, but 'she' just didn't want to give herself up! No! Not today!! LMAO ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 21:44:26 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11CCF1065670 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:44:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.142]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CF8D68FC1C for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:44:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 47423 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2008 21:44:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=otYpDuos0sO0pf9Z/vczuvYDxlLvu9C3/jCuuEkb0A8LxjHXFu2/JzPAu42hDnkKb5tsFyqPGgUI2zfvIM/FIYdOT9FNB788QT+ueJuU9OMd/j0c548K0dwhOG2HbDRcQZIg5kffvEOuz+TEbsNtQX5caHrCxavf/EhKukWSU2A=; X-YMail-OSG: 6hpYrmYVM1nKZgRo2571kWaA3ecMMpuWjMVvXpC7AWFFFhOCV5O_r4V9fHkBjWtqqtsVdUs.WwkPjwcJaK1z.dW6XtY07E_1hnnf3KwQuJso4MtwvH4- Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:44:25 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:44:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: Alphons Fonz van Werven In-Reply-To: <47EA6774.2060206@student.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <203129.47088.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:44:26 -0000 --- "Alphons \"Fonz\" van Werven" wrote: > Passive PROFITS wrote: > > > The only 'official' list seems to be this: > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > That's the one, indeed. > > > But it starts off with the rather intimidating > phrase > > "You should not send "how to" questions to the > > technical lists unless you consider the question > to be > > pretty technical." > > That's a standard remark on an automagically > generated page. It applies to > other, more technical lists involving current > development. > > It's perhaps a bit unfortunate that it appears on > the pages for all FreeBSD > lists, including the ones it doesn't apply to. But > don't let it scare you > off: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org (or -questions > for short) is the list you > are looking for. > > See you there, > > Alphons Hi Alphons, Thanks for the confirmation of some sort of welcome over on -questions! At least I made it 12 hours or so on -chat without encountering anything but a small problem. Looking forward to conversing 'over there' with you Alphons ... a.k.a. 'Fonz' in the future? (Let me know!) Best, PP ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 22:12:53 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267101065672 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:12:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.146]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DDCC18FC26 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:12:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 10656 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2008 22:12:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=Hi6mpAjQcKYw9491k1qCAsacSG+XXZgpDwYedf8LNrUWnM4xR6J5LwkRwS+ybe28mMhG+czFAxiqXFSfLIz/vWAdjkbF7khqm6yTcA8665+HSsT+ErCtgmlXiGPRBBvcPfGXUDFRBaVq9dZmtlxKxUgPsN9rZDyqWWD8nIMb234=; X-YMail-OSG: vfscnUAVM1m1wjfuYqHMWFylHrs.Sj0Oxvz0fO24ave1CdycLImEqEiVUhuGjekFaXZxVYC3HftBQ.1NXqS7pQL3XLDf9SpMKH_RP0iqM3C.UZ0- Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:12:51 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:12:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <952143.25012.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <184397.10538.qm@web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:12:53 -0000 > most kind regards > > jonathan > > > ps, small niggle well based on observation, you have > a real name it is > agood idea to useit .. read the mailinglists > charters, maillname/userid > is one thing but a personal identifier that is close > to a (your) real > name. Hi Jonathan, Sorry I didn't respond to your above earlier. I only just caught it lurking at the bottom of an off-list email someone else on the list sent me ... Good job too, as I would have hated it to pass, and you just think I was being plain rude. To your points: >From this page, I see that a 'your name' is "(optional)": http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat Nothing contra-indicates the above, here: http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo Or at least nothing I can find!! What am I missing? I can find no clear link to any 'charter' from the freebsd website, so am assuming you are referring to the above page(s)? Don't forget I've spent like, 20 seconds on the site, in my life (discounting download times). I appreciate many prefer my 'real name'. I can give you one (that I'll have to make up) if it's absolutely necessary. I am a barrister by background, having one time (for quite a time) had an extensive criminal law practise/practice (depending on which side of the pond you're reading this). I never really give my real name out, anywhere, unless it would be a breach of the law (with damages payable that I couldn't easily afford, to which I might add that I'm always skint! ). It's nothing personal to you or to anyone else on this or any other list; I simply don't want to be found by rather a large number of people (my ex-clients, as I used to defend when undertaking criminal law, primarily) - ever. If posting your real name might bring upwards of 300 angry convicted criminals to your door, would you? And that's forgetting, for a time, the other 400 odd clients, in various legal shenanegins, many of whom may not be happy with what happened to them. I hope this clarifies, even if not making people 'happy'. Obviously should either a charter, or the general list membership want my real name or ask me to leave in default, that's no problem, I'll leave, but I hope not. What brought me to BSD, was the realisation lawyers worldwide should be using Linux/BSD, not Windows ... I finished writing a book on digital signatures and encryption, on/in Windows, to get to the end of it only realising none of the users of the e-book really had the advice they needed - GET OFF WINDOWS! With a bit of help from the FreeBSD community over the next 12 or more months, hopefully there will be at least one lawyer I know (me!) using FreeBSD, so he can tell the others about it, even if only one at a time (i.e. not through publication(s))! ;) Anyway - obviously I'll have to leave, if that's what people really want, just because I'm being honest that there's no way your getting my real name! Please advise, I really don't want to upset anyone here. Increasingly, I understand why people just use a pen name on the Internet; saves bandwidth, if nothing else, having these discussions - perhaps I should recommend it, alone, for that fact, never mind the harrasment possibilities and opportunities that abound once someone has your 'real' name, and a fixed IP for you. I am at least trying to be honest in not using a 'false', 'real' name - e.g. 'John Smith'. If you will let me. I use a nym that is Linux related for my LUG, it just happens I was in one of those 'F-I; just sign up, right now, without thinking about it' moments that I happen to have subbed using this addy, as, as I've previously stated, I've been up to the site before, only to have come away empty handed. I will of course, I reiterate, as it seems like it might be in some doubt, leave without further complaint, if thought necessary for everyone elses sanity - strange place honesty takes you. As an aside that I am sure will not be missed by the vast majority of the list: only the persistence of a digital identity (PKI) is of any use in terms of ID, and only then, without a web of trust, over time, as proving it is the 'same' person (who ever that might be!), anyway!! I'll sign, if that is a happy mid-way, though it will of course stop me being able to participate whilst out and about/without private key!? Anyway - let me know. I am specifically interested in the legal basis, of where and exactly what states you have to put your real name on a list to get access to FreeBSD, or it's resources, especially philosophically. I thought FreeBSD meant like, free of cost, free of (none BSD) licence restrictions, and no where have I ever read anything about having to give your real name in order to participate in any of it, but as you all know, I haven't even read the handbook yet, hey, so I've probably only got myself to blame! LMAO I am not being cantankerous, well, ok, perhaps emotionally I'm trying not to be ... But to explain with the legal background, and wanting in the future to write a little about BSD possibly - if there is something that says names, and real names are required; I'd like to point it out to the lawyers (and likely tell them not to use it, as I've not yet come across anything like this with Ubuntu (or Knoppix before it)). Best to all, PP ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 26 23:54:39 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A521106564A for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:54:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from a.j.werven@student.utwente.nl) Received: from smtp.utwente.nl (unknown [IPv6:2001:610:1908:1000:204:23ff:feb5:7e66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690FE8FC2D for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:54:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from a.j.werven@student.utwente.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (vpn181210.student.utwente.nl [130.89.181.210]) by smtp.utwente.nl (8.12.10/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id m2QNmXZJ007120; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:48:35 +0100 Message-ID: <47EAE0D3.8010202@student.utwente.nl> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:48:35 +0000 From: "Alphons \"Fonz\" van Werven" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Passive PROFITS References: <203129.47088.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <203129.47088.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UTwente-MailScanner-Information: Scanned by MailScanner. Contact servicedesk@icts.utwente.nl for more information. X-UTwente-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-UTwente-MailScanner-From: a.j.werven@student.utwente.nl X-Spam-Status: No Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:54:39 -0000 Passive PROFITS wrote: > Alphons ... a.k.a. 'Fonz' in the future? (Let me know!) My skydiving friends (yes, I have other hobbies besides computer stuff) usually call me Fonz, but either name will do. A word of warning though: 1) Whereas -chat is (somewhat to my surprise) a relatively low-traffic list, -questions covers a broad range of topics. So be prepared to receive many messages, most of which are of absolutely no interest to you (or me, for that matter). 2) Because of the higher traffic, it's important to carefully compose your messages so that the right people notice them and feel compelled to respond. Look for the weekly post by "grog" (Greg Lehey) about getting the best out of freebsd-questions (it can also be found in the online archives), it's quite useful. 3) If you ask a broad question, people will most likely just refer you to the documentation. This is not necessarily a bad thing, because instead of just saying RTFM (Read The F***ing Manual) they will actually tell you exactly which documentation you should read and FreeBSD is one of the best- documented systems I've seen so far. If you need more specific help, you need to ask more specific questions. 4) I might be opening a can of worms here, but I think it's best not to mention Windows or Microsoft on -questions if you can avoid it. For some people those names work kinda like a red rag on a bull and they prefer bitching about Windows/Microsoft over actually answering your question. Not everybody is like that, but we do have a few of those people on -questions. And they are occasionally told off about that, but still... 5) There are many national FreeBSD lists which may or may not be of help, depending on the amount of traffic. For example, I live just across the pond in Holland. The Dutch FreeBSD lists still exist but seem to have sort of died. However, just a couple of years ago the lists were quite active and often very helpful. Also, being able to use their native language might be a benefit for some people if English ain't their strong suit. But in our case, that probably won't be an issue ;-) Fonz -- All right, that does it Bill [Donahue]. I'm pretty sure that killing Jesus is not very Christian. -- pope Benedict XVI, South Park episode #158 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 27 01:35:34 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E2F4106564A for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:35:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from skeptikos@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.230]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F908FC23 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:35:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from skeptikos@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 50so3159336wra.13 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:35:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zZ5L6nqWQ+Yr9OXxtRYSMkJGOnTsuLK35008HnEuJ10=; b=Gmpl3oYhYQiix9kt1YZYxBF2FzwKwJxkUu/Ux0viwzNb9JKRTIjdPBRkmmjWSrMcwBDPkrpGLhGhdLopVlI7iWTE5KUV9Qz1Q6K2XwVhJDhc0GhW+hojNJoAN92AJKW4yZuY8Jq30B3QjWzHJ16gbgNSgHUdsFEdgw5e40Byijw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=gEzajZ147yFXEmurTVfA1da5zz82UVW4YQbuhIHepABzOl4OMT57CJUuhdWrECIuoy6vAWxbjJK4GgIzBiBnURIeP6OGfE/ST4p8UASW2Wu7fzYP8NQguaCNqH3RrjJz4OgVQREBgaq2GDYwf2pFLgtITuR/W4nNMymKgcIab4g= Received: by 10.140.165.21 with SMTP id n21mr657252rve.45.1206581732184; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ( [70.162.18.231]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b34sm12603248rvf.22.2008.03.26.18.35.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:35:54 -0700 From: christopher To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20080326183554.3f5f43b1.skeptikos@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 2.4.7 (GTK+ 2.12.1; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:35:34 -0000 Well, from the mass of replies you've gotten, I would say I may be a little late here, but I just wanted to offer a little bit. I like FreeBSD it's great, and I too, like someone else on this list went straight from Windows to] FreeBSD. It was a steep learning curve, but well worth it, more so even than my work with Linux. My main suggestion about learning would be to subscribe to user group mailing lists. They tend not to be as high volume as freebsd-questions, and I've really had a lot of luck with my main list, a Tucson, AZ, USA, unix group. They have people of all flavors on there, and it gives me access to non-freebsd specific resources as well. I solve a lot of FreeBSD issues by searching linux archives. I also subscribe to specific lists as well, one for gimp, fvwm, mplayer, and a hand full of others. Maybe there are some for firewalling, who knows. At first those tend to be awfully technical, but as time has passed, more of the stuff makes sense to me and it keeps in touch with issues that I may not have now, but will eventually. Good luck. On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Passive PROFITS wrote: > Hi All, > > First post to any FreeBSD list; be gentle! ;) > > Where would be the right place to go looking to > subscribe to a newbie level user-support list? > Perhaps rephrased 'complete newbie user support list' > ... LOL > > I'm only like 9+ months into Linux [Ubuntu > desktop/server installs v.6.06.1 LTS], though with 12+ > years on Windows before that {cough}. Only just > finding my way around with CLI, etc, etc. > > Nevertheless, I wish to try to install and configure > FreeBSD as a firewall and I am currently based in the > South of England, should that be relevant to any > response. Any/all pointers much appreciated!! > > The only 'official' list seems to be this: > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > But it starts off with the rather intimidating phrase > "You should not send "how to" questions to the > technical lists unless you consider the question to be > pretty technical." > > Obviously all my questions are going to be pretty > stupid, 'How-To' type questions, try though I might to > get up to speed, I fear it's going to be some time > indeed before I will graduate out of the stupid newbie > type questions! Is there anything out there in the > FreeBSD world that might be of help to me, or is it > RTFM all the way?! {not as bad as it sounded > initially, as I hear BSD is well documented?!}... > > Anyway - any pointers to something more at my level > appreciated, if there is anything in existence. I do > appreciate I'm most likely asking my first stupid > question to any FreeBSD list. Doesn't seem like an OS > people arrive at without first being a bit of an > expert, which I am patently, not! > > TIA for any (polite) response at all! > > PP > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- christopher From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 27 01:58:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 561A2106564A for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:58:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from MH@kernel32.de) Received: from crivens.kernel32.de (crivens.terrorteam.de [81.169.171.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FAFD8FC1C for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:58:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from MH@kernel32.de) Received: from [192.168.100.142] (unknown [91.64.130.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by crivens.kernel32.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9F7B0290; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:58:04 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <47EAFF3E.4010200@kernel32.de> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:58:22 +0100 From: Marian Hettwer User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Macintosh/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: christopher References: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20080326183554.3f5f43b1.skeptikos@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20080326183554.3f5f43b1.skeptikos@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:58:06 -0000 Hi there, since this is -chat, a reply won't hurt :) christopher schrieb: > My main suggestion about learning would be to > subscribe to user group mailing lists. They tend > not to be as high volume as freebsd-questions, and > I've really had a lot of luck with my main list, a > Tucson, AZ, USA, unix group. They have people of > all flavors on there, and it gives me access to > non-freebsd specific resources as well. I solve > a lot of FreeBSD issues by searching linux archives. > > I do completely agree with the above statement :) My first subscription to a freebsd mailing list was de-bsd-questions@de.freebsd.org One could say, this is the german version of freebsd-questions@freebsd.org This mailing list proofed to be one of the best choices I ever did. During the years (since somewhat 1999?!) I learned a whole Unix flavor related things. It happened from time to time that a freebsd related question drifted of, as in, how can it be solved with other unix like operating systems. My main Unix know-how came from that list. And it still happens that I do read something on that mailinglist, where I think "well, this could help me at work with those debian boxes" Well, since time passes by, it's usally more like "ah, this can be achived by FreeBSD going that way" and "ah, this works in Solaris too" and then "Oh damn, this is more complicated in linux..." ;-) Anyway, point is, subscribe to a local mailinglist. It may be helpful :) And for the archives: Thanks to the guys at de-bsd-questions@ (especially Oliver Fromme and Bernd Walter). Very valuable information. Big plus of this german bsd mailing list. Nearly _no_ flamewars in those years since 1999. I would guess, like 5 flamewars in 10 years?! That's not that common, eh? :) regards, Marian From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 27 02:52:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48D66106564A for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:52:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron1.sfsu.edu (iron1.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.35]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09AE98FC2E for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:52:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) X-onepass: IPPSC X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAHKo6keC1Apk/2dsb2JhbACrSA Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.100]) by iron1.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 26 Mar 2008 19:52:09 -0700 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.3HF378) with ESMTP id 2008032619520829-269 ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:52:08 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:52:08 -0700 (PDT) From: KAYVEN RIESE cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20080326183554.3f5f43b1.skeptikos@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20080326183554.3f5f43b1.skeptikos@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.3HF378 | February 28, 2008) at 03/26/2008 19:52:08, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.3HF378 | February 28, 2008) at 03/26/2008 19:52:09, Serialize complete at 03/26/2008 19:52:09 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:52:10 -0000 On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, christopher wrote: >> Where would be the right place to go looking to >> subscribe to a newbie level user-support list? >> Perhaps rephrased 'complete newbie user support list' >> ... LOL I just felt like chiming in. It has seemed to me that freebsd-hacker is a nice intermediate list. Less volume, and wtf does 'hacker' mean? in other words, it seems open to wide variety of questionings. I have been running freeBSD for only a few years myself, and I still need to muster up more courage for kernel builds and cvsup, but I am feeling that I am making progress. To tell the truth, I wouldn't mind someone else chiming in on their understanding about what "freebsd-hacker" is for. >> >> I'm only like 9+ months into Linux [Ubuntu >> desktop/server installs v.6.06.1 LTS], though with 12+ >> years on Windows before that {cough}. Only just >> finding my way around with CLI, etc, etc. >> >> Nevertheless, I wish to try to install and configure >> FreeBSD as a firewall and I am currently based in the >> South of England, should that be relevant to any >> response. Any/all pointers much appreciated!! >> >> The only 'official' list seems to be this: >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> But it starts off with the rather intimidating phrase >> "You should not send "how to" questions to the >> technical lists unless you consider the question to be >> pretty technical." >> >> Obviously all my questions are going to be pretty >> stupid, 'How-To' type questions, try though I might to >> get up to speed, I fear it's going to be some time >> indeed before I will graduate out of the stupid newbie >> type questions! Is there anything out there in the >> FreeBSD world that might be of help to me, or is it >> RTFM all the way?! {not as bad as it sounded >> initially, as I hear BSD is well documented?!}... >> >> Anyway - any pointers to something more at my level >> appreciated, if there is anything in existence. I do >> appreciate I'm most likely asking my first stupid >> question to any FreeBSD list. Doesn't seem like an OS >> people arrive at without first being a bit of an >> expert, which I am patently, not! >> >> TIA for any (polite) response at all! >> >> PP >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > -- > christopher > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 27 03:40:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5B61065672 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:40:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.31]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0CA38FC1A for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:40:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: (qmail 4930 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2008 03:39:59 -0000 Received: from mxperim2.sea5.speakeasy.net ([69.17.117.67]) (envelope-sender ) by mail27.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 27 Mar 2008 03:39:59 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mxperim2.sea5.speakeasy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE015156AFE for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:39:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mxperim2.sea5.speakeasy.net Received: from mxperim2.sea5.speakeasy.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mxperim2.sea5.speakeasy.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cSVgf3n66y-7 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from w16.stradamotorsports.com (dsl081-163-042.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.163.42]) by mxperim2.sea5.speakeasy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <47EB1717.6060208@highperformance.net> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:40:07 -0700 From: "Jason C. Wells" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4pre (X11/20080205) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20080326183554.3f5f43b1.skeptikos@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:40:01 -0000 KAYVEN RIESE wrote: > On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, christopher wrote: > >>> Where would be the right place to go looking to >>> subscribe to a newbie level user-support list? >>> Perhaps rephrased 'complete newbie user support list' >>> ... LOL > > I just felt like chiming in. It has seemed to me that > freebsd-hacker is a nice intermediate list. Less volume, > and wtf does 'hacker' mean? in other words, it seems open > to wide variety of questionings. I have been running freeBSD > for only a few years myself, and I still need to muster > up more courage for kernel builds and cvsup, but I am feeling > that I am making progress. To tell the truth, I wouldn't > mind someone else chiming in on their understanding about > what "freebsd-hacker" is for. There are descriptions of the purposes of all the lists posted in a couple places. http://www.freebsd.org/community/mailinglists.html http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers A few quotes for your convenience: Re -hackers This is a forum for technical discussions related to FreeBSD. This is the primary technical mailing list. It is for individuals actively working on FreeBSD, to bring up problems or discuss alternative solutions. Individuals interested in following the technical discussion are also welcome. General lists: The following are general lists which anyone is free (and encouraged) to join: Technical lists: The following lists are for technical discussion. You should read the charter for each list carefully before joining or sending mail to one as there are firm guidelines for their use and content. So -hackers really isn't a place for newbies. Newbies should subscribe to -questions. This was the first list I subscribed to back in the day. A hacker is person who writes code in the context of this discussion. (The first person to quote the jargon file earns minus one pedantic.) Building the world isn't that hard really. FreeBSD has done a great job making it mostly a fire and forget operation. As long as you stay in the shallow end it's easy. It's when you start tinkering with your makefiles and your sources that it gets fun. Later, Jason From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 27 18:42:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EEA3106566B for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:42:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron1.sfsu.edu (iron1.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.35]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 195A68FC1A for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:42:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) X-onepass: IPPSC X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEABqH60eC1Apk/2dsb2JhbACrWw Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.100]) by iron1.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 27 Mar 2008 11:42:15 -0700 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.3HF378) with ESMTP id 2008032711421338-315 ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:42:13 -0700 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:42:13 -0700 (PDT) From: KAYVEN RIESE cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <47EB1717.6060208@highperformance.net> Message-ID: References: <252055.77706.qm@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20080326183554.3f5f43b1.skeptikos@gmail.com> <47EB1717.6060208@highperformance.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.3HF378 | February 28, 2008) at 03/27/2008 11:42:13, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.3HF378 | February 28, 2008) at 03/27/2008 11:42:15, Serialize complete at 03/27/2008 11:42:15 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:42:16 -0000 On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Jason C. Wells wrote: > KAYVEN RIESE wrote: >> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, christopher wrote: >> > So -hackers really isn't a place for newbies. Newbies should subscribe to > -questions. This was the first list I subscribed to back in the day. I've been on -questions. Like a lot of the lists you get HELLLA emails. It's hard to keep up with them. I have found that -hackers get less emails and if you ask a question that is especially newbie-ish, nobody seems to care that much. -hackers seems like a nice list that has hardcore technical advice without the narrow definitions. > > A hacker is person who writes code in the context of this discussion. (The > first person to quote the jargon file earns minus one pedantic.) > Oops. You are referring to my quoting of "luser?" I am minus one pedantic not pedantic enough? {:} Je ne comprende pas! {:) > Building the world isn't that hard really. FreeBSD has done a great job > making it mostly a fire and forget operation. As long as you stay in the > shallow end it's easy. It's when you start tinkering with your makefiles and > your sources that it gets fun. The thing that bothers me about cvsup is that it REQUIRES that supfile thingy, and I would prefer that I had a better handle on it before willy nilly building. Also, there are many different supfiles, that gives me a stomache ache. I know people are going to tell me RTFM a lot. Long long ago in a galaxy I was reading all sorts of man pages, and I still do, but I really like the term "luser" because I have only started being a unix admin in the past few years on freeBSD. I know c code, but the myriads of make are still something I don't feel incredibly comfortable with. A point I wanted to make about man pages is that they help you if you already know what to do, and the manual can be a little like that as well. I'm not complaining. I wish people weren't so harsh about nocaps style. I find it far more comfortable. I think the complaints about nocaps being uneasy to read and conducive to greater error are exaggerated. I understand I need to ask specific questions and give enough information. Sometimes that darn information is hard to obtain. I know how to read error messages, but there is just so much backstory when it comes to kernel code of an operatiing system. Even when you have built "toy" OSes in a University course called "Operating Systems." > > Later, > Jason > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 27 22:48:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FADA106564A for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:48:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from igloo.linux.gr (igloo.linux.gr [62.1.205.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8052A8FC14 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:48:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from kobe.laptop (adsl23-31.kln.forthnet.gr [77.49.150.31]) (authenticated bits=128) by igloo.linux.gr (8.14.2/8.14.2/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m2RMYr8r008502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:35:01 +0200 Received: from kobe.laptop (kobe.laptop [127.0.0.1]) by kobe.laptop (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2RMYr0t001630; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:34:53 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from keramida@localhost) by kobe.laptop (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m2RKt90n001497; Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:55:09 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) From: Giorgos Keramidas To: "Alphons \"Fonz\" van Werven" References: <203129.47088.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47EAE0D3.8010202@student.utwente.nl> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:55:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: <47EAE0D3.8010202@student.utwente.nl> (Alphons van Werven's message of "Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:48:35 +0000") Message-ID: <87ej9v99ar.fsf@kobe.laptop> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-MailScanner-ID: m2RMYr8r008502 X-Hellug-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Hellug-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-3.886, required 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, AWL 0.51, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-Hellug-MailScanner-From: keramida@ceid.upatras.gr X-Spam-Status: No Cc: Passive PROFITS , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:48:06 -0000 On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:48:35 +0000, "Alphons \"Fonz\" van Werven" wrote: > Passive PROFITS wrote: >> Alphons ... a.k.a. 'Fonz' in the future? (Let me know!) > > 1) Whereas -chat is (somewhat to my surprise) a relatively low-traffic > list, -questions covers a broad range of topics. So be prepared to > receive many messages, most of which are of absolutely no interest to > you (or me, for that matter). > > 2) Because of the higher traffic, it's important to carefully compose > your messages so that the right people notice them and feel compelled > to respond. Look for the weekly post by "grog" (Greg Lehey) about > getting the best out of freebsd-questions (it can also be found in the > online archives), it's quite useful. Good points... The posting by Greg is also available online as an official FreeBSD `article' at: http://www.FreeBSD.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/freebsd-questions/ So you don't have to dig into the archives or wait for it to reappear in the mailing list to read and enjoy it. To the original poster: ``Welcome to -chat, and we'll also be happy to have you in -questions :-)'' - Giorgos From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 29 05:18:54 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FB821065672 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:18:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.144]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D8B678FC1F for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:18:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 57528 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Mar 2008 05:18:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=OXvUJO9Vh5s9rRtPdlMyC31lpd496mb37yvaScAN/Prij9BVyDMinFub1trQBYtm6z4ga/9nV+9TB+OHZ0jACPxjGW1mMcBx8H5nsFcqPp+9t01UbH9P4nx+kNHOdN8uySgtcb3jVNChlhv7LKU/Yg3RXJb6hLKH7d53tavTo70=; X-YMail-OSG: Ngo96RUVM1kYCsI1flNC_PWZw09xqrktf2ZtaWe6e_Vf3.Yaqe93Xq_R8k.sCkYAfeXv7G6Xt.yzbc9adPpch84zSsWgnJGS_r1VN8tupfkkstNvpOK9q6leHbUNew-- Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 22:18:52 PDT Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 22:18:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <47EAE0D3.8010202@student.utwente.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <965797.56846.qm@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:18:54 -0000 nb: Fonz - same message as just sent offlist (but I forgot to copy it back to the list - not quite used to the way this list is set up in that respect yet! :(). PS - Done a parachute jump before (2000 feet)! ;) --- "Alphons \"Fonz\" van Werven" wrote: > Passive PROFITS wrote: > > > Alphons ... a.k.a. 'Fonz' in the future? (Let me > know!) > > My skydiving friends (yes, I have other hobbies > besides computer stuff) > usually call me Fonz, but either name will do. Cool. > A word of warning though: > > 1) Whereas -chat is (somewhat to my surprise) a > relatively low-traffic list, > -questions covers a broad range of topics. So be > prepared to receive many > messages, most of which are of absolutely no > interest to you (or me, for > that matter). Ok - that's useful to know when thinking about mail routing/filtering - thanks. > 2) Because of the higher traffic, it's important to > carefully compose your > messages so that the right people notice them and > feel compelled to respond. > Look for the weekly post by "grog" (Greg Lehey) > about getting the best out > of freebsd-questions (it can also be found in the > online archives), it's > quite useful. OK - will do. ;) > 3) If you ask a broad question, people will most > likely just refer you to > the documentation. This is not necessarily a bad > thing, because instead of > just saying RTFM (Read The F***ing Manual) they will > actually tell you > exactly which documentation you should read and > FreeBSD is one of the best- > documented systems I've seen so far. If you need > more specific help, you > need to ask more specific questions. OK. It's good to know that some pointers into the documentation is possible if you ask nicely! I've had a chance to glance at the docs CD; 500+ MB!! > 4) I might be opening a can of worms here, but I > think it's best not to > mention Windows or Microsoft on -questions if you > can avoid it. For some > people those names work kinda like a red rag on a > bull and they prefer > bitching about Windows/Microsoft over actually > answering your question. Not > everybody is like that, but we do have a few of > those people on -questions. > And they are occasionally told off about that, but > Noted. I'm sort of trying but failing to keep myself Linux; one MS machine for speech-to-text, and a 'duel boot', though I don't spend much time in Windows on the latter. It would be nice to perhaps use FreeBSD for firewall(s) and possibly also hosting. I might also be interested to go triple boot with the laptop as I set aside 10GB for that purpose when partitioning to go duel boot. :) And thus at last should be able to learn whatever I want on any of the three, where ever I am. What do you use/play with FreeBSD as - work, fun, coder/desktop/server, etc, etc? Are you a comp science student in the Netherlands, or interested in BSD just generally? > 5) There are many national FreeBSD lists which may > or may not be of help, > depending on the amount of traffic. For example, I > live just across the pond > in Holland. The Dutch FreeBSD lists still exist but > seem to have sort of > died. However, just a couple of years ago the lists > were quite active > and often very helpful. Also, being able to use > their native language might > be a benefit for some people if English ain't their > strong suit. But in our > case, that probably won't be an issue ;-) Got it: it looks like there is a London BSD grouping, so I will check that out, though their list looks a bit low volume to be of much use it might be nice to meet up with another user 'real world' as it seems they do do that sort of thing. I'm no coder, though I am increasingly getting confortable with messing about with config files ... So far (in Linux)), that's been about it. Prior to that, only a litle HTML/CGI, and only then, altering templates, essentially. :( PP > > Fonz > > -- > All right, that does it Bill [Donahue]. I'm pretty > sure that killing Jesus > is not very Christian. > -- pope Benedict XVI, > South Park episode #158 > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > ____________________________________________________________________________________ No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for Yahoo! users and friends. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 29 05:55:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B5BB1065740 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:55:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.145]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 80EF78FC15 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:55:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 850 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Mar 2008 05:55:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=ACDVXEgJxTF+OlGwnaFMeO8y6FxcBIux667V+ze9vHB7z6K5QBCRxEYnHQb5EaKqCGKnyEU+O/l8lKmfTZXh1NhQv0knvh14c7RK7jtlrUSWCRg2MvcvA1xx3lYyip4wjvzoMBTFiVXcKoMjDl7r59aaLqQi5Yzvh9TFwz2yyjk=; X-YMail-OSG: _6bMrSsVM1kVnNSjpfaYZLiHqax6X6yGqKNd4A2q Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 22:55:46 PDT Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 22:55:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: christopher In-Reply-To: <20080326183554.3f5f43b1.skeptikos@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <328844.97931.qm@web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:55:48 -0000 --- christopher wrote: > Well, from the mass of replies you've gotten, Isn't it nice though!? ... As I said, I wasn't sure if my 'hello' would disappear never to be heard of again, or only elicit 'Go away - we're busy'!! LOL As it is, apart from a what seems to be a small misunderstanding which has arisen due to my own ignorance, I feel duly welcomed by the community! > would > say I may be a little late here, but I just wanted > to > offer a little bit. Thanks. > I like FreeBSD it's great, and I too, like someone > else on this list went straight from Windows to] > FreeBSD. It was a steep learning curve, but well > worth it, more so even than my work with Linux. I must admit I had a laugh last night (before I passed out early too tired to try an install!) ... When I saw the London group's website which mentions what seems to connect all BSD users is that they 'like steep learning curves!'. :) The laugh came as I'm yet to find out if that is like steep, which I like, or impossibly steep, which is going to frustrate me. > My main suggestion about learning would be to > subscribe to user group mailing lists. They tend > not to be as high volume as freebsd-questions, and > I've really had a lot of luck with my main list, a > Tucson, AZ, USA, unix group. They have people of > all flavors on there, and it gives me access to > non-freebsd specific resources as well. I solve > a lot of FreeBSD issues by searching linux archives. Right. That's interesting to know. I (still) haven't really got my head around the way BSD is similar and different to Linux. I keep hearing they are both Unix-like, but of course, that means nothing to me, really, yet (though I have some vague sense that 'Unix' is something to do with mainframes, or some such?)! > I also subscribe to specific lists as well, one > for gimp, fvwm, mplayer, and a hand full of others. I do that too for the things I'm interested in. I tend to veer more towards smaller and low(er) volume lists though, by default. The days of enjoying 400 emails coming in every hour are long gone! I am finding it a bit too much just to hang in on the Ubuntu desktop list, especially when it's actually the server list I need to get onto, ... I need to get back into building some decent mail filtering rules, methinks! :( > Maybe there are some for firewalling, who knows. At > first those tend to be awfully technical, but as > time has passed, more of the stuff makes sense to > me and it keeps in touch with issues that I may > not have now, but will eventually. That's about where I am with the SSL list, which I joined some time ago but continue to not even understand, in terms of just the questions, never mind the answers ... But it's really nice to be able to wire yourself into such places, in the hope that one day, the gray cells may just work out something! > Good luck. Thanks Christopher! :) PP > > > > On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:15:30 -0700 (PDT) > Passive PROFITS wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > First post to any FreeBSD list; be gentle! ;) > > > > Where would be the right place to go looking to > > subscribe to a newbie level user-support list? > > Perhaps rephrased 'complete newbie user support > list' > > ... LOL > > > > I'm only like 9+ months into Linux [Ubuntu > > desktop/server installs v.6.06.1 LTS], though with > 12+ > > years on Windows before that {cough}. Only just > > finding my way around with CLI, etc, etc. > > > > Nevertheless, I wish to try to install and > configure > > FreeBSD as a firewall and I am currently based in > the > > South of England, should that be relevant to any > > response. Any/all pointers much appreciated!! > > > > The only 'official' list seems to be this: > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > But it starts off with the rather intimidating > phrase > > "You should not send "how to" questions to the > > technical lists unless you consider the question > to be > > pretty technical." > > > > Obviously all my questions are going to be pretty > > stupid, 'How-To' type questions, try though I > might to > > get up to speed, I fear it's going to be some time > > indeed before I will graduate out of the stupid > newbie > > type questions! Is there anything out there in > the > > FreeBSD world that might be of help to me, or is > it > > RTFM all the way?! {not as bad as it sounded > > initially, as I hear BSD is well documented?!}... > > > > Anyway - any pointers to something more at my > level > > appreciated, if there is anything in existence. I > do > > appreciate I'm most likely asking my first stupid > > question to any FreeBSD list. Doesn't seem like > an OS > > people arrive at without first being a bit of an > > expert, which I am patently, not! > > > > TIA for any (polite) response at all! > > > > PP > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > -- > christopher > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 29 06:17:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3711A106566B for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 06:17:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D8E0B8FC14 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 06:16:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 83019 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Mar 2008 06:16:59 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=A92ayJGqYJ8u0VBEZNr9NikTsYYjjs+53DxOPVQFiBKzSOQaoAbxUwRk4us4qKSwPdhgMYUkplhNTEcH5Mvd13WexvGKtXJ+dMJ6hOh1GNGkuHDZWzB3wOPL1dVkOmR+iTOnnGE3WkoiGTufBAUzJO5b3WIXzle53A6bWiK0QcU=; X-YMail-OSG: M8wTzWwVM1knzqmHVvhnidZZrsutJ91cKr0ol3I1KIKagscng59CoHsFVwM2EqADNIjcZV0wujvQBq2ZeRVP_v9ae3IhhQn9.9v9jFwQTRR0mqBiehyOkrjSxA-- Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:16:58 PDT Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:16:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: Giorgos Keramidas , Alphons Fonz van Werven In-Reply-To: <87ej9v99ar.fsf@kobe.laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <103238.82739.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: Passive PROFITS , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 06:17:00 -0000 --- Giorgos Keramidas wrote: http://www.FreeBSD.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/freebsd-questions/ > So you don't have to dig into the archives or wait > for it to reappear in > the mailing list to read and enjoy it. > > To the original poster: ``Welcome to -chat, and > we'll also be happy to > have you in -questions :-)'' > > - Giorgos Thanks Giorgos; will check them out. Seems like -chat has worked out to be the right place to get a bit of help with finding my way around the community! :) PP ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 29 07:03:11 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE9E7106564A for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:03:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EB198FC19 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:03:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd3mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr4so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.180]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JYH00BOSA5AX060@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:03:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml9so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.7]) by pd3mr4so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-7.05 (built Sep 5 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JYH00AF5A5AY410@pd3mr4so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soralx ([24.87.3.133]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JYH00BLIA59JO50@l-daemon> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:03:10 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:03:11 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <328844.97931.qm@web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20080328230311.2d396c4c@soralx> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.12.8; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <20080326183554.3f5f43b1.skeptikos@gmail.com> <328844.97931.qm@web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: passiveprofits@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:03:11 -0000 > Right. That's interesting to know. I (still) haven't > really got my head around the way BSD is similar and > different to Linux. I keep hearing they are both > Unix-like, but of course, that means nothing to me, > really, yet (though I have some vague sense that > 'Unix' is something to do with mainframes, or some > such?)! http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/bsd4linux2.php Few small things have changed since the time of that article, but the ideas there still seem to be up-to-date (and hopefully will stay that way). [SorAlx] ridin' VS1400 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 29 07:42:48 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B61B106566B for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:42:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1AF748FC14 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:42:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 43217 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Mar 2008 07:42:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=HQrWqNTxs4yMGCYNjpdy6m5jmy3VxMQvFMsGvuG2Tc+nzX3JgzA3BRznbXRG8/F6uHFHDGKE/4SXOajYg2YuddcsfrFKLT/b+MEfI9nnt6GhT8e61itcRpY38ptl6P2oy6CU8UeKyeRHz0J+eMWQl6XzFtdlcU/RgqAAbzVBY2E=; X-YMail-OSG: iviXQLMVM1ml.mVeTYR75TI95HJiDXrvoXzt0t5vRqFBVaHxlJxH_Fwz7MSwcRLTPQ-- Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:42:47 PDT Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:42:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: soralx@cydem.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20080328230311.2d396c4c@soralx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <237492.42432.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: passiveprofits@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:42:48 -0000 --- soralx@cydem.org wrote: > > Right. That's interesting to know. I (still) > haven't > > really got my head around the way BSD is similar > and > > different to Linux. I keep hearing they are both > > Unix-like, but of course, that means nothing to > me, > > really, yet (though I have some vague sense that > > 'Unix' is something to do with mainframes, or some > > such?)! > > http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/bsd4linux2.php > Few small things have changed since the time of that > article, but > the ideas there still seem to be up-to-date (and > hopefully will > stay that way). > > [SorAlx] ridin' VS1400 Thanks friend: that was the most valuable article at getting me up to speed with what's on the CD/how it works/contrasted to Linux - brilliant! ;) PP > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Like movies? Here's a limited-time offer: Blockbuster Total Access for one month at no cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text4.com From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 29 12:37:21 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C07B106564A for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:37:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: from web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.141]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A0B88FC1D for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:37:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from passiveprofits@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 2938 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Mar 2008 12:37:20 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=dygyg41mE2o3dg1CvdGteSYDbquXP7A4UYiItHUVGUh0hnXjQ8kozkiRX1FrXYM6z2ftEhkU3duF79BZ5WO9SMEwEd1bYmI/zVw6qJpKbjd1qDNovAzY3+okjj561ZUJ5hjf2kSFzfvJ9p2Ld2I9A8tvVg/bkS0HlqW7Gm0O1sU=; X-YMail-OSG: PeNgMtEVM1lFa0jwpcZ2C23UWG15xcwn1h3_BdezHHAlKLseY4T_LeuUsbdtR8C7Eh6nNVdKOPzELLZ3CObsHSgZgJ3SGGgZF0OH2AyBvNJKQ9jjaF4- Received: from [80.46.113.101] by web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:37:20 PDT Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:37:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Passive PROFITS To: Marian Hettwer In-Reply-To: <47EAFF3E.4010200@kernel32.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <427339.2795.qm@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Newbie Question - about newbie user support X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:37:21 -0000 --- Marian Hettwer wrote: > Hi there, > > since this is -chat, a reply won't hurt :) Well as it was almost the weekend, we'll forgive you! :) > christopher schrieb: > > My main suggestion about learning would be to > > subscribe to user group mailing lists. They tend > > not to be as high volume as freebsd-questions, and > > I've really had a lot of luck with my main list, a > > Tucson, AZ, USA, unix group. They have people of > > all flavors on there, and it gives me access to > > non-freebsd specific resources as well. I solve > > a lot of FreeBSD issues by searching linux > archives. > > > > > I do completely agree with the above statement :) > My first subscription to a freebsd mailing list was > de-bsd-questions@de.freebsd.org > One could say, this is the german version of > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > This mailing list proofed to be one of the best > choices I ever did. > During the years (since somewhat 1999?!) I learned a > whole Unix flavor > related things. > It happened from time to time that a freebsd related > question drifted > of, as in, how can it be solved with other unix like > operating systems. > My main Unix know-how came from that list. > And it still happens that I do read something on > that mailinglist, where > I think "well, this could help me at work with those > debian boxes" > Well, since time passes by, it's usally more like > "ah, this can be > achived by FreeBSD going that way" and "ah, this > works in Solaris too" > and then "Oh damn, this is more complicated in > linux..." ;-) > Anyway, point is, subscribe to a local mailinglist. Now done. Thanks for reiterating this advice. I suppose your advice along with others has made he realise my usual strategy of subbing to the 'top' few that look like they might be one of the places to be, hanging out a while, and then unsubbing from those that are too high or too low, will work here too! -chat -questions -hackers (maybe; but certainly likely after a while) -uk.freebsd Got it! :) > It may be helpful :) > And for the archives: Thanks to the guys at > de-bsd-questions@ > (especially Oliver Fromme and Bernd Walter). Very > valuable information. > Big plus of this german bsd mailing list. Nearly > _no_ flamewars in those > years since 1999. > I would guess, like 5 flamewars in 10 years?! That's > not that common, eh? :) I think this is why I was a bit reticent about posting anywhere here. I tend to try stick to private email discussion lists on a few subjects of interest. Public lists can and often do, you are right, descend to where no one is learning anything, which rather misses the point (or me at least) of joining. I've sort of realised, too, as this is only the second or third time I've popped into newsgroups with a large student/academic population, why I must smarten up my usually far too laid back 'online-style'!! ;) PP > > regards, > Marian ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 29 19:10:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FA47106566B; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:10:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert@ml.erje.net) Received: from smtpout-1.iphouse.net (smtpout-1.iphouse.net [216.250.188.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A728FC15; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:10:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert@ml.erje.net) Received: from smtpout-1.iphouse.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by outbound-clamsmtpd.iphouse.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2F32AC61A; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:52:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ziemel.erje.net (erje.net [80.126.62.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtpout-1.iphouse.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CFD62AC5F9; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:52:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ismet.erje.net (ismet.erje.net [IPv6:2001:888:1f33::8e45:5e]) by ziemel.erje.net (PostFix 2.5.0) with ESMTP id CFBCCCA0B26; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:52:19 +0100 (CET) Received: (from robert@localhost) by ismet.erje.net (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m2TIqGpp004186; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:52:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from robert@ml.erje.net) X-Authentication-Warning: ismet.erje.net: robert set sender to robert@ml.erje.net using -f Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:52:16 +0100 From: Robert Joosten To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080329185215.GA4017@iphouse.com> References: <945136.92642.qm@web57010.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <945136.92642.qm@web57010.mail.re3.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-ziemel.erje.net-MailScanner: Ok, found to be clean X-Spam-Status: No X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:10:46 -0000 Hi Unga, > Is there a 2nd edition coming soon? Third iirc. ISBN 0201549794 was the first, although with a slightly different name. Regards, Robert PS: may I politely remind you of our mailinglist charters phrase: "No posting should be made to more than 2 mailing lists (..) ? ;-) http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 29 20:23:21 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38D41065674; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 20:23:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from njm@njm.f2s.com) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E9C98FC39; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 20:23:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from njm@njm.f2s.com) X-Trace: 45469611/mk-outboundfilter-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com/F2S/$ACCEPTED/freedom2Surf-customers/195.137.21.170 X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 195.137.21.170 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: njm@njm.f2s.com X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ag4FAII67kfDiRWq/2dsb2JhbACBWqdc X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from i-195-137-21-170.freedom2surf.net (HELO oberon.njm.f2s.com) ([195.137.21.170]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 29 Mar 2008 19:53:44 +0000 Received: from oberon.njm.f2s.com (localhost.njm.f2s.com [127.0.0.1]) by oberon.njm.f2s.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m2TJrhjE047009; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:53:43 GMT (envelope-from njm@oberon.njm.f2s.com) Received: (from njm@localhost) by oberon.njm.f2s.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m2TJrh6G047008; Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:53:43 GMT (envelope-from njm) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:53:43 +0000 From: "N.J. Mann" To: Robert Joosten Message-ID: <20080329195343.GA44731@oberon.njm.f2s.com> Mail-Followup-To: Robert Joosten , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <945136.92642.qm@web57010.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <20080329185215.GA4017@iphouse.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080329185215.GA4017@iphouse.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 6.3-STABLE User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17cvs (2008-03-09) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 20:23:22 -0000 In message <20080329185215.GA4017@iphouse.com>, Robert Joosten (robert@ml.erje.net) wrote: > Hi Unga, > > > Is there a 2nd edition coming soon? > > Third iirc. ISBN 0201549794 was the first, although with a slightly > different name. You are forgetting ISBN 0201061961! Cheers, Nick. --