From owner-freebsd-drivers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 19 15:01:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6FE61065676 for ; Mon, 19 May 2008 15:01:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05A78FC17 for ; Mon, 19 May 2008 15:01:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from zion.baldwin.cx (unknown [208.65.91.234]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 491931A4D82; Mon, 19 May 2008 08:01:00 -0700 (PDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 09:15:00 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <17277776.post@talk.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <17277776.post@talk.nabble.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200805190915.00902.jhb@freebsd.org> Cc: n4ti1us Subject: Re: Spin locks and software IRQs. X-BeenThere: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Writing device drivers for FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:01:00 -0000 On Friday 16 May 2008 11:37:46 am n4ti1us wrote: > Hi All, > > I was looking at the linux kernel, and in the implementation of spinlocks, > one can use different functions. One of them is spin_lock_bh(). What it > does is it creates a spin lock and disables the software irqs. > > In FreeBSD on the other hand, the implementation of spinlocks is done by > mtx_lock_spin (which is actually a macro that calls mtx_lock_spin_flags()) > but the problem is that is disables all the irq vector (at the bottom of > the stack it executes an "cli"). Is there any way one can implement > spinlocks that only disable the bottom half (sof irq)? > > Alternatively, what would be the best way to manualy disable the soft irqs? > > And all this makes me think... Why has nobody implemented a "_bh" version > so far? Is this an architectural decision, or is it just me being blind? Generally one should use a regular mutex to protect data. Spin locks in FreeBSD are only used by scheduler internals or for a driver that has to interact with an INTR_FAST handler (or filter in 7.x+). -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-drivers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 20 18:29:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222DB1065675; Tue, 20 May 2008 18:29:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from parsely.rain.com (parsely.rain.com [199.26.172.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD378FC1D; Tue, 20 May 2008 18:29:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from sopwith.solgatos.com (uucp@localhost) by parsely.rain.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with UUCP id m4KITCa94907; Tue, 20 May 2008 11:29:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from localhost by sopwith.solgatos.com (8.8.8/6.24) id SAA25413; Tue, 20 May 2008 18:26:31 GMT Message-Id: <200805201826.SAA25413@sopwith.solgatos.com> To: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:26:31 +0100 From: Dieter Cc: Subject: Open Graphics Project is now taking pre-orders X-BeenThere: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com List-Id: Writing device drivers for FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 18:29:15 -0000 The Open Graphics Project is now taking pre-orders for the OGD1 development board. This PCI-X board has 2 FPGA chips and video outputs (2 heads). List price is $1500, the first 100 orders get a $100 discount. There are developer discounts available, so someone writing a BSD device driver, or working on X11 support, etc. could get a board for $700-1000. There is a variety of development work that needs to be done. Profits from the OGD1 board will be used to bootstrap other FLOSS friendly hardware projects (not limited to graphics). If you are tired of undocumented hardware, here is a chance to do something about it. The product info page: http://www.traversaltech.com/products.phtml The FAQ: http://www.traversaltech.com/ogd1p_faq2.phtml The order page: http://www.traversaltech.com/store.phtml For a developer discount, contact the Open Hardware Foundation: http://www.openhardwarefoundation.org/ From owner-freebsd-drivers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 23 07:55:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C76241065675; Fri, 23 May 2008 07:55:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from solarux@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s6.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s6.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3BBE8FC1E; Fri, 23 May 2008 07:55:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from solarux@hotmail.com) Received: from BAY113-W28 ([65.54.168.128]) by bay0-omc1-s6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 23 May 2008 00:43:01 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [99.241.18.57] From: Rick Nekus To: , , , Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 07:43:01 +0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200805201826.SAA25413@sopwith.solgatos.com> References: <200805201826.SAA25413@sopwith.solgatos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2008 07:43:01.0806 (UTC) FILETIME=[A0C82CE0:01C8BCA8] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: RE: Open Graphics Project is now taking pre-orders X-BeenThere: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Writing device drivers for FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 07:55:01 -0000 Hi, I'm just curious here, but why PCI-X, why not PCI-EXpress ? or is this obv= iously for development reasons. > To: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org; freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; freebsd-mu= ltimedia@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:26:31 +0100> From: freebsd@= sopwith.solgatos.com> CC: > Subject: Open Graphics Project is now taking pr= e-orders> > The Open Graphics Project is now taking pre-orders for> the OGD= 1 development board. This PCI-X board has 2 FPGA chips> and video outputs (= 2 heads). List price is $1500, the> first 100 orders get a $100 discount. T= here are developer> discounts available, so someone writing a BSD device dr= iver,> or working on X11 support, etc. could get a board for $700-1000.> Th= ere is a variety of development work that needs to be done.> Profits from t= he OGD1 board will be used to bootstrap other FLOSS> friendly hardware proj= ects (not limited to graphics). If you are> tired of undocumented hardware,= here is a chance to do something> about it.> > The product info page:> htt= p://www.traversaltech.com/products.phtml> > The FAQ:> http://www.traversalt= ech.com/ogd1p_faq2.phtml> > The order page:> http://www.traversaltech.com/s= tore.phtml> > For a developer discount, contact the Open Hardware Foundatio= n:> http://www.openhardwarefoundation.org/> _______________________________= ________________> freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org mailing list> http://lists= .freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-multimedia> To unsubscribe, send any = mail to "freebsd-multimedia-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" _________________________________________________________________ If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which comb= ines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208= From owner-freebsd-drivers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 23 15:22:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C21E6106568F; Fri, 23 May 2008 15:22:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from parsely.rain.com (parsely.rain.com [199.26.172.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B3158FC27; Fri, 23 May 2008 15:22:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from sopwith.solgatos.com (uucp@localhost) by parsely.rain.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with UUCP id m4NFMge97299; Fri, 23 May 2008 08:22:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from localhost by sopwith.solgatos.com (8.8.8/6.24) id PAA10055; Fri, 23 May 2008 15:15:53 GMT Message-Id: <200805231515.PAA10055@sopwith.solgatos.com> To: Rick Nekus In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 May 2008 07:43:01 -0000." Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 08:15:53 +0100 From: Dieter Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Open Graphics Project is now taking pre-orders X-BeenThere: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Writing device drivers for FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 15:22:45 -0000 > I'm just curious here, but why PCI-X, why not PCI-EXpress ? > or is this obviously for development reasons. According to the FAQ, While most graphics cards now fit in PCI Express slots, PCI is more popular with users of FPGA kits. We have identified the parts necessary to support PCI Express, so if there is demand, we can build them. In the mean time, we need to sell the PCI version OGD1 to bootstrap our efforts. PCI-X is backward compatible with your 32-bit 33MHz PCI slots, and OGD1 has been tested with several PC motherboards. Note that some PC motherboards may position components so that they interfere with the "extended" part of the PCI card edge for some slots. OGD1 is 6.875in long and 4.2in wide (17.46cm x 10.67cm). Some small form-factor systems do not provide enough room in one or both dimensions. There is a development advantage to PCI. PCI is a bus, so it is easy to sniff the bus if things aren't working. There has been some discussion about writing software to turn the OGD1 into a PCI bus sniffer, for developing other boards. If you are interested in buying a PCIe version of OGD1, OGP needs to hear about it. From owner-freebsd-drivers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 23 15:59:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFBC1065672; Fri, 23 May 2008 15:59:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457C48FC1C; Fri, 23 May 2008 15:59:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 309DD1CC033; Fri, 23 May 2008 08:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 08:39:37 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Dieter Message-ID: <20080523153937.GA40374@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <200805231515.PAA10055@sopwith.solgatos.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200805231515.PAA10055@sopwith.solgatos.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, Rick Nekus , freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Open Graphics Project is now taking pre-orders X-BeenThere: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Writing device drivers for FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 15:59:32 -0000 On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 08:15:53AM +0100, Dieter wrote: > > I'm just curious here, but why PCI-X, why not PCI-EXpress ? > > or is this obviously for development reasons. > > According to the FAQ, > > While most graphics cards now fit in PCI Express slots, > PCI is more popular with users of FPGA kits. We have > identified the parts necessary to support PCI Express, > so if there is demand, we can build them. In the mean > time, we need to sell the PCI version OGD1 to bootstrap > our efforts. > > PCI-X is backward compatible with your 32-bit 33MHz PCI slots, > and OGD1 has been tested with several PC motherboards. Note > that some PC motherboards may position components so that they > interfere with the "extended" part of the PCI card edge for > some slots. OGD1 is 6.875in long and 4.2in wide > (17.46cm x 10.67cm). Some small form-factor systems do not > provide enough room in one or both dimensions. > > There is a development advantage to PCI. PCI is a bus, so it is easy > to sniff the bus if things aren't working. There has been some > discussion about writing software to turn the OGD1 into a PCI bus > sniffer, for developing other boards. > > If you are interested in buying a PCIe version of OGD1, OGP needs to > hear about it. I think what people (not just here, but folks on Slashdot as well) want to know is: is the PCI-X choice *purely* for development reasons, e.g. will the retail/non-development version (read: transistor-based, no FPGA) of the card be PCIe? If the manufacturer plans on keeping everything PCI-X -- dev cards and commercial/retail cards -- they are making a *huge* mistake. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-drivers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 23 16:54:58 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-drivers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E44106566C; Fri, 23 May 2008 16:54:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from parsely.rain.com (parsely.rain.com [199.26.172.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD448FC0A; Fri, 23 May 2008 16:54:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from sopwith.solgatos.com (uucp@localhost) by parsely.rain.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with UUCP id m4NGsu697317; Fri, 23 May 2008 09:54:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com) Received: from localhost by sopwith.solgatos.com (8.8.8/6.24) id QAA05864; Fri, 23 May 2008 16:52:53 GMT Message-Id: <200805231652.QAA05864@sopwith.solgatos.com> To: Jeremy Chadwick In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 May 2008 08:39:37 PDT." <20080523153937.GA40374@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 09:52:53 +0100 From: Dieter Cc: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-drivers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Open Graphics Project is now taking pre-orders X-BeenThere: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Writing device drivers for FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 16:54:58 -0000 > I think what people (not just here, but folks on Slashdot as well) want > to know is: is the PCI-X choice *purely* for development reasons, e.g. > will the retail/non-development version (read: transistor-based, no > FPGA) of the card be PCIe? > > If the manufacturer plans on keeping everything PCI-X -- dev cards and > commercial/retail cards -- they are making a *huge* mistake. The plan, as I understand it, is: Develop GPU logic using OGD1 boards. Sell as many OGD1 boards as possible to raise money needed (estimated at US$2M) to fabricate ASIC. Probably do other FLOSS friendly hardware projects to raise money for ASIC. (Ideas welcome) Build OGC boards with ASIC, no FPGA. The ASICs are expected to sell in *much* larger quantities than the FPGA boards. I'm 99.9% sure that the ASIC based OGC boards will be available as PCIe. Possibly PCI or PCI-X and AGP as well, and the bare ASIC chips will be available for embedded applications (PDAs, kiosks, etc.). The big hurdle is raising the US$2M needed to fab the ASIC. From owner-freebsd-drivers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 23 17:11:25 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7690D106564A; Fri, 23 May 2008 17:11:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gpalmer@freebsd.org) Received: from noop.in-addr.com (in-addr.broker.freenet6.net [IPv6:2001:5c0:8fff:fffe::214d]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35CEE8FC12; Fri, 23 May 2008 17:11:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gpalmer@freebsd.org) Received: from gjp by noop.in-addr.com with local (Exim 4.54 (FreeBSD)) id 1Jzanc-000DID-Cq; Fri, 23 May 2008 13:11:24 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 13:11:24 -0400 From: Gary Palmer To: Jeremy Chadwick Message-ID: <20080523171124.GB1142@in-addr.com> References: <200805231515.PAA10055@sopwith.solgatos.com> <20080523153937.GA40374@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080523153937.GA40374@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Open Graphics Project is now taking pre-orders X-BeenThere: freebsd-drivers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Writing device drivers for FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 17:11:25 -0000 On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 08:39:37AM -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 08:15:53AM +0100, Dieter wrote: > > > I'm just curious here, but why PCI-X, why not PCI-EXpress ? > > > or is this obviously for development reasons. > > > > According to the FAQ, > > > > While most graphics cards now fit in PCI Express slots, > > PCI is more popular with users of FPGA kits. We have > > identified the parts necessary to support PCI Express, > > so if there is demand, we can build them. In the mean > > time, we need to sell the PCI version OGD1 to bootstrap > > our efforts. > > > > PCI-X is backward compatible with your 32-bit 33MHz PCI slots, > > and OGD1 has been tested with several PC motherboards. Note > > that some PC motherboards may position components so that they > > interfere with the "extended" part of the PCI card edge for > > some slots. OGD1 is 6.875in long and 4.2in wide > > (17.46cm x 10.67cm). Some small form-factor systems do not > > provide enough room in one or both dimensions. > > > > There is a development advantage to PCI. PCI is a bus, so it is easy > > to sniff the bus if things aren't working. There has been some > > discussion about writing software to turn the OGD1 into a PCI bus > > sniffer, for developing other boards. > > > > If you are interested in buying a PCIe version of OGD1, OGP needs to > > hear about it. > > I think what people (not just here, but folks on Slashdot as well) want > to know is: is the PCI-X choice *purely* for development reasons, e.g. > will the retail/non-development version (read: transistor-based, no > FPGA) of the card be PCIe? > > If the manufacturer plans on keeping everything PCI-X -- dev cards and > commercial/retail cards -- they are making a *huge* mistake. This is answered on their website. The reason they chose PCI-X was that they can slap a PCIe to PCI-X bridge on it without having to choose new FPGAs and respin the boards (which would delay things even more) http://wiki.opengraphics.org/tiki-index.php?page=OGPN20#PCIe (amongst many others) http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awiki.opengraphics.org+pcie Regards, Gary P.S. isn't this thread violating the crossposting rules?