From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 09:34:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9461106566C for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:34:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from mail.cksoft.de (mail.cksoft.de [62.111.66.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82AC08FC16 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:34:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net) Received: from localhost (amavis.str.cksoft.de [192.168.74.71]) by mail.cksoft.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC8541C67B; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:15:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cksoft.de Received: from mail.cksoft.de ([62.111.66.27]) by localhost (amavis.str.cksoft.de [192.168.74.71]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tko4d4T11gHt; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:15:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail.cksoft.de (Postfix, from userid 66) id 614FB41C677; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:15:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from maildrop.int.zabbadoz.net (maildrop.int.zabbadoz.net [10.111.66.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.int.zabbadoz.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B7144487F; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:11:02 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:11:02 +0000 (UTC) From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" X-X-Sender: bz@maildrop.int.zabbadoz.net To: Giulio Ferro In-Reply-To: <4881C486.8040401@zirakzigil.org> Message-ID: <20080720090947.F57089@maildrop.int.zabbadoz.net> References: <4881C486.8040401@zirakzigil.org> X-OpenPGP-Key: 0x14003F198FEFA3E77207EE8D2B58B8F83CCF1842 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-jail@freebsd.org Subject: Re: multi-ip jail patch on freebsd 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:34:46 -0000 On Sat, 19 Jul 2008, Giulio Ferro wrote: > Since the multi-ip jail feature isn't yet part of the base system (why???) > I was searching the internet for a suitable patch to apply manually. > > I couldn't find any. The one I found didn't apply cleanly to a 7 system. > Can any of you point me to a working multi-ip jail patch? freebsd-jail@ would be a better list. I would happily point you at one but my webserver is down at the moment. I hope you can waut anther few days as I am swamped... -- Bjoern A. Zeeb Stop bit received. Insert coin for new game. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 13:51:25 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D6AB106564A for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:51:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ravi.murty@intel.com) Received: from mga02.intel.com (mga02.intel.com [134.134.136.20]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 113278FC14 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:51:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ravi.murty@intel.com) Received: from orsmga001.jf.intel.com ([10.7.209.18]) by orsmga101.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2008 06:50:40 -0700 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,218,1215414000"; d="scan'208";a="419751115" Received: from orsmsx335.amr.corp.intel.com (HELO orsmsx335.jf.intel.com) ([10.22.226.40]) by orsmga001.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2008 06:50:57 -0700 Received: from orsmsx416.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.22.226.46]) by orsmsx335.jf.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:51:24 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:51:22 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels Thread-Index: AcjgdRP1JaXY2BXEQHCMkoelzVa5yQJ+a2GQ References: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> From: "Murty, Ravi" To: "Kris Kennaway" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jul 2008 13:51:24.0043 (UTC) FILETIME=[B2B365B0:01C8EA6F] Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:51:25 -0000 Has anyone identified the issue(s) that might be broken in the ULE scheduler in 6.2? I am running a rather simple test - creates 8 threads and runs it on an 8 CPU system (not a whole lot running on the system). When I run it with ULE, it runs slow, very slow sometimes - it's almost like the threads aren't picked to run. When I switch to 4BSD, things run fine. I was wondering if there is something I could look at? I realize it is broken, but I've added lots of stuff to the scheduler (for our project) which I'd have to migrate to ULE in 7.0. I'd like to figure out what might be going on in 6.2 before I spend the time to migrate to 7.0. Thanks Ravi -----Original Message----- From: Kris Kennaway [mailto:kris@FreeBSD.org]=20 Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:04 PM To: d@delphij.net Cc: Murty, Ravi; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels Xin LI wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >=20 > Kris Kennaway wrote: > | Murty, Ravi wrote: > |> Hello everyone, > |> > |> > |> > |> Finally found what my last problem was. We were running top in a loop > |> and running some workloads that called sched_bind() to bind threads to > |> specific CPUs. The problem was that (and I am using ULE) sched_bind > |> calls a function to notify another CPU of a thread and then mi_switches > |> out of it. Since mi_switch sets the "oncpu" field of the thread to NOCPU > |> and given the thread is still running, calcru would come in and assert > |> the fact that "If I am running I better no be on NOCPU".. It appears > |> that in other parts of the kernel (e.g. forward_signal) this is > |> acceptable (i.e. it is okay to be running and oncpu is NOCPU). > |> > |> > |> Thanks > |> Ravi > | > | Don't use ULE in 6.x, it's broken and will not be fixed. >=20 > Perhaps we should mark it as broken using #error? After all the ULE > changes in 7.x is amazing and we do not want to have users to obtain bad > impressions from the 6.x versions... >=20 > I am not sure but some explicit warning message saying "ULE has been > revamped in FreeBSD 7.x+ and will not be MFC'ed back to 6.x, please use > SCHED_4BSD or upgrade to 7.x." seems to be better than having them to > pursue the mailing list archive... I would agree with this; if you're happy running unstable and broken=20 scheduler code, you're surely able to update to 7.0 and run stable and=20 working scheduler code :) We should run it past re@ first since it's a change to a stable branch,=20 but it's experimental code so I don't see an issue. Kris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 13:59:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0F9A1065677; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:59:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADAC18FC12; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:59:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 906FB1CC09D; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:59:00 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: "Murty, Ravi" Message-ID: <20080720135900.GA68132@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Kris Kennaway , d@delphij.net Subject: Re: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:59:00 -0000 On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 06:51:22AM -0700, Murty, Ravi wrote: > Has anyone identified the issue(s) that might be broken in the ULE > scheduler in 6.2? I am running a rather simple test - creates 8 threads > and runs it on an 8 CPU system (not a whole lot running on the system). > When I run it with ULE, it runs slow, very slow sometimes - it's almost > like the threads aren't picked to run. When I switch to 4BSD, things run > fine. I was wondering if there is something I could look at? I realize > it is broken, but I've added lots of stuff to the scheduler (for our > project) which I'd have to migrate to ULE in 7.0. I'd like to figure out > what might be going on in 6.2 before I spend the time to migrate to 7.0. ULE in 7.0 is not the same as in 6.2 -- it was entirely re-written before 7.0 was released. The ULE scheduler in 7.0 is often called "ULE 2.0", to signify that it's not the same ULE scheduler in previous FreeBSD releases. See "New Scheduler: ULE 2.0 / 3.0" here: http://ivoras.sharanet.org/freebsd/freebsd7.html Technical details from the author: http://jeffr-tech.livejournal.com/3729.html The reason the ULE scheduler in 7.0 is not the default scheduler is because the community felt more testing needed to be done. I believe the plan is to have ULE as the default scheduler in 7.1. You should really be running 4BSD on 6.x, and ULE on 7.x (unless you have reason to run 4BSD on 7.x -- and some people do. And no, I don't know the reasons why). -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 14:06:20 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A291065688; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:06:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ravi.murty@intel.com) Received: from mga01.intel.com (mga01.intel.com [192.55.52.88]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16A38FC1A; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:06:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ravi.murty@intel.com) Received: from fmsmga001.fm.intel.com ([10.253.24.23]) by fmsmga101.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2008 07:03:25 -0700 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,218,1215414000"; d="scan'208";a="599364184" Received: from orsmsx334.amr.corp.intel.com (HELO orsmsx334.jf.intel.com) ([10.22.226.45]) by fmsmga001.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2008 07:07:29 -0700 Received: from orsmsx416.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.22.226.46]) by orsmsx334.jf.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 20 Jul 2008 07:06:18 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 07:06:19 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20080720135900.GA68132@eos.sc1.parodius.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels Thread-Index: AcjqcMNA03Ap6w7URL+gXOH6s5PpUAAAGnKg References: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> <20080720135900.GA68132@eos.sc1.parodius.com> From: "Murty, Ravi" To: "Jeremy Chadwick" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jul 2008 14:06:18.0735 (UTC) FILETIME=[C7FA8FF0:01C8EA71] Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Kris Kennaway , d@delphij.net Subject: RE: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:06:20 -0000 Jeremy, thanks. I look forward to switching to ULE in 7.0 and realize that it is a completely new scheduler (I spent some time yesterday looking at it) -- which is my porting effort is much harder than a simple cut and paste. I just wanted to find out if there was something simple I could look at before I spent weeks porting my changes to the scheduler (also I can justify the move to 7.x). I can't figure out why my 8 app threads run so slow -- I am booting the kernel is single user mode with not much else running and my threads do a lot of work and don't really sleep. Thanks Ravi -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Chadwick [mailto:koitsu@FreeBSD.org]=20 Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 6:59 AM To: Murty, Ravi Cc: Kris Kennaway; d@delphij.net; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 06:51:22AM -0700, Murty, Ravi wrote: > Has anyone identified the issue(s) that might be broken in the ULE > scheduler in 6.2? I am running a rather simple test - creates 8 threads > and runs it on an 8 CPU system (not a whole lot running on the system). > When I run it with ULE, it runs slow, very slow sometimes - it's almost > like the threads aren't picked to run. When I switch to 4BSD, things run > fine. I was wondering if there is something I could look at? I realize > it is broken, but I've added lots of stuff to the scheduler (for our > project) which I'd have to migrate to ULE in 7.0. I'd like to figure out > what might be going on in 6.2 before I spend the time to migrate to 7.0. ULE in 7.0 is not the same as in 6.2 -- it was entirely re-written before 7.0 was released. The ULE scheduler in 7.0 is often called "ULE 2.0", to signify that it's not the same ULE scheduler in previous FreeBSD releases. See "New Scheduler: ULE 2.0 / 3.0" here: http://ivoras.sharanet.org/freebsd/freebsd7.html Technical details from the author: http://jeffr-tech.livejournal.com/3729.html The reason the ULE scheduler in 7.0 is not the default scheduler is because the community felt more testing needed to be done. I believe the plan is to have ULE as the default scheduler in 7.1. You should really be running 4BSD on 6.x, and ULE on 7.x (unless you have reason to run 4BSD on 7.x -- and some people do. And no, I don't know the reasons why). --=20 | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 14:13:16 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06BB9106567B; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:13:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from weak.local (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D3D18FC19; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:13:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <488347FA.7080103@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:13:14 +0200 From: Kris Kennaway User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Murty, Ravi" References: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> <20080720135900.GA68132@eos.sc1.parodius.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jeremy Chadwick , d@delphij.net Subject: Re: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:13:16 -0000 Murty, Ravi wrote: > Jeremy, thanks. I look forward to switching to ULE in 7.0 and realize > that it is a completely new scheduler (I spent some time yesterday > looking at it) -- which is my porting effort is much harder than a > simple cut and paste. I just wanted to find out if there was something > simple I could look at before I spent weeks porting my changes to the > scheduler (also I can justify the move to 7.x). I can't figure out why > my 8 app threads run so slow -- I am booting the kernel is single user > mode with not much else running and my threads do a lot of work and > don't really sleep. Once again, ULE in 6.x is too broken to use, which is why major changes were required to get it to a suitable state in 7.0. It's a shame that you didn't read about this before putting in so much work. Kris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 17:10:50 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88A2B1065679 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:10:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thierry.herbelot@laposte.net) Received: from smtp4-g19.free.fr (smtp4-g19.free.fr [212.27.42.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2193D8FC1F for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:10:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thierry.herbelot@laposte.net) Received: from smtp4-g19.free.fr (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4-g19.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A84F3EA0AF for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:10:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.herbelot.nom (bne75-4-82-227-159-103.fbx.proxad.net [82.227.159.103]) by smtp4-g19.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F5663EA112 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:10:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from diversion.herbelot.nom (diversion.herbelot.nom [192.168.2.6]) by mail.herbelot.nom (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m6KHAkUo021034 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:10:47 +0200 (CEST) From: Thierry Herbelot To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:10:39 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <200807190723.47208.thierry.herbelot@laposte.net> In-Reply-To: <200807190723.47208.thierry.herbelot@laposte.net> X-Warning: Windows can lose your files X-Op-Sys: Le FriBi de la mort qui tue X-Org: TfH&Co X-MailScanner: Found to be clean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200807201910.40171.thierry.herbelot@laposte.net> Subject: Re: NFS locking from a qemu machine ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:10:50 -0000 Le Saturday 19 July 2008, Thierry Herbelot a écrit : > Hello, > > I'm trying to use NFS locking from an NFS client running in a qemu virtual > PC to an NFS server running on the host machine, but with no success so far > : > > configuration for the host PC (server) : > operating system : FreeBSD 7.0-Stable > > % cat /etc/exports > /shared/ 127.0.0.1 > > and in /etc/rc.conf : > nfs_server_enable="YES" > weak_mountd_authentication="YES" # Allow non-root mount requests to be > served. rpcbind_enable="YES" # Run the portmapper service > (YES/NO). rpc_lockd_enable="YES" # Run NFS rpc.lockd needed for > client/server. rpc_statd_enable="YES" # Run NFS rpc.statd needed > for client/server. > > configuration for the qemu machine (client) : > operating system : FreeBSD 7.0-Stable > > in /etc/fstab : > 10.0.2.2:/shared /shared nfs rw 0 0 > > in /etc/rc.conf : > nfs_client_enable="YES" # This host is an NFS client (or NO). > rpcbind_enable="YES" # Run the portmapper service (YES/NO). > rpc_lockd_enable="YES" # Run NFS rpc.lockd needed for > client/server. rpc_statd_enable="YES" # Run NFS rpc.statd needed > for client/server. > > > I'm using tools/regression/file/flock to check the correct file locking : > $ ./flock ../../shared > > and the client machine seems locked > > the ethernet traffic between the client and the server when the client is > blocked is the following : > > (the "tunnel" port is the one used by the lockmanager according to rpcinfo) this is most likely due to misconfiguration, as the nat-ed configuration used for the qemu client does not allow back communication from the server lockd to the client rpcbind. TfH From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 20:10:22 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B516106567B for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:10:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pjd@garage.freebsd.pl) Received: from mail.garage.freebsd.pl (chello087206045140.chello.pl [87.206.45.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ED8D8FC0A for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:10:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pjd@garage.freebsd.pl) Received: by mail.garage.freebsd.pl (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 656E945CD8; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:40:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (chello087206045140.chello.pl [87.206.45.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.garage.freebsd.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D234245C9F; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:39:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:39:55 +0200 From: Pawel Jakub Dawidek To: Patrick Lamaizi?re Message-ID: <20080720193955.GA2193@garage.freebsd.pl> References: <20080719005813.3a995c71@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080719005813.3a995c71@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-PGP-Key-URL: http://people.freebsd.org/~pjd/pjd.asc X-OS: FreeBSD 8.0-CURRENT i386 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on mail.garage.freebsd.pl X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.4 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: crypto(9) and maxoplen X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:10:22 -0000 --fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 12:58:13AM +0200, Patrick Lamaizi?re wrote: > Hello, >=20 > In the "opencrypto framework" the function crypto_register() has an > argument 'maxoplen'. >=20 > http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/opencrypto/crypto.c#L625 >=20 > Does somebody know what was the goal of this parameter? It is not used > by the framework. >=20 > The man page of crypto(9) says : > For each algorithm the driver supports, it must then call > crypto_register(). The first two arguments are the driver and algorithm > identifiers. The next two arguments specify the largest possible > operator length (in bits, important for public key operations) and > flags for this algorithm. >=20 > I'm asking if it can help for this problem: the glxsb driver can > perform AES-CBC algorithm only with 128 bits key and may be 'maxoplen' > was intended for this case.=20 >=20 > Without something to specify the key's length, the driver is selected > by the framework even with keys !=3D 128 bits. So it fails when the > session is opened. This prevents setkey/ipsec to work with key > length !=3D 128 bits if the driver is loaded. If I read code properly, there is currently no way for a driver to say to the opencrypto framework that only AES-CBC with 128bit key is supported. A driver can only state that it supports AES-CBC, that's all. As a workaround the driver should implement AES-CBC-192 and AES-CBC-256 in software. --=20 Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl pjd@FreeBSD.org http://www.FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! --fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFIg5SLForvXbEpPzQRAuEvAKCjES6hgBVSR/qJeVMOz0h0YiT3cwCg6+Wa gMkp5jnBTg6qASgC2kmkIoY= =+YiR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fdj2RfSjLxBAspz7-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 00:28:27 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08B861065683 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:28:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanefbsd@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.158]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54E878FC1E for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:28:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanefbsd@gmail.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so750300fgb.35 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:28:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=LSgWcX2+GVCm6Bw7q8SXFyqq5ud/0OqM7u3AxVCFjWU=; b=O5C4cSGV3565fr4CtANuDUmAKpKn0Wf6ycAvosScXuffEUvfpZFSwXXS/fvOOENrK/ gKu17kD9Rj4P1vmDG1gvKQUAClRY4wxQrLZqS+blg5mdvpJr9JVLB54WfIlYPOyuUzzg 017j0Fb8z/+RdBbPs4xi6B1yd8U/9xuMBYbDk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=rbGG0hU5XWIYYmMxA94FEyiqRrx6Q1B1uCmcS8FdcGoo+LISP9fWI9ZUp+fwqrwFxW EXFduzbqWcepkSrZzr4pV6kz61p5h7fN47OSIfR3z6L0W/l3woM2Wm9J7wkq5TPU9HNH 53LE+sFbJNnIaXe7k/eOh1azyXUuicF7aJOUI= Received: by 10.86.27.9 with SMTP id a9mr4042708fga.57.1216600105009; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.51.1 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:28:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d6fde3d0807201728q4d0fcce5md94af2d69d108c0a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:28:24 -0700 From: "Garrett Cooper" To: "Kris Kennaway" In-Reply-To: <488347FA.7080103@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <48726193.1080807@FreeBSD.org> <48727E37.30700@delphij.net> <487284CA.4050407@FreeBSD.org> <20080720135900.GA68132@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <488347FA.7080103@FreeBSD.org> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jeremy Chadwick , d@delphij.net, "Murty, Ravi" Subject: Re: Bug in calcru in he 6.2 and 6.3 kernels X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:28:27 -0000 On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Murty, Ravi wrote: >> >> Jeremy, thanks. I look forward to switching to ULE in 7.0 and realize >> that it is a completely new scheduler (I spent some time yesterday >> looking at it) -- which is my porting effort is much harder than a >> simple cut and paste. I just wanted to find out if there was something >> simple I could look at before I spent weeks porting my changes to the >> scheduler (also I can justify the move to 7.x). I can't figure out why >> my 8 app threads run so slow -- I am booting the kernel is single user >> mode with not much else running and my threads do a lot of work and >> don't really sleep. > > Once again, ULE in 6.x is too broken to use, which is why major changes were > required to get it to a suitable state in 7.0. It's a shame that you didn't > read about this before putting in so much work. > > Kris Perhaps an $(error ) (don't know the pmake analog) should be put into the kernel Makefile to note that ULE is busted? -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 12:10:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A19F1065676; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:10:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from patfbsd@davenulle.org) Received: from smtp.lamaiziere.net (net.lamaiziere.net [91.121.44.19]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDAA48FC12; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:10:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from patfbsd@davenulle.org) Received: from baby-jane.lamaiziere.net (27.6.192-77.rev.gaoland.net [77.192.6.27]) by smtp.lamaiziere.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id E408F633655; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:07:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baby-jane.lamaiziere.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50B1D5711A3; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:10:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:10:00 +0200 From: Patrick =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Lamaizi=E8re?= To: Pawel Jakub Dawidek Message-ID: <20080721141000.03127887@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> In-Reply-To: <20080720193955.GA2193@garage.freebsd.pl> References: <20080719005813.3a995c71@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> <20080720193955.GA2193@garage.freebsd.pl> Organization: /dave/nulle X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.3.1 (GTK+ 2.12.9; i386-apple-darwin9.3.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: crypto(9) and maxoplen X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:10:03 -0000 Le Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:39:55 +0200, Pawel Jakub Dawidek a écrit : Hello, > > In the "opencrypto framework" the function crypto_register() has an > > argument 'maxoplen'. > > > > http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/opencrypto/crypto.c#L625 > > > > Does somebody know what was the goal of this parameter? It is not > > used by the framework. > > > > The man page of crypto(9) says : > > For each algorithm the driver supports, it must then call > > crypto_register(). The first two arguments are the driver and > > algorithm identifiers. The next two arguments specify the largest > > possible operator length (in bits, important for public key > > operations) and flags for this algorithm. > > > > I'm asking if it can help for this problem: the glxsb driver can > > perform AES-CBC algorithm only with 128 bits key and may be > > 'maxoplen' was intended for this case. > > > > Without something to specify the key's length, the driver is > > selected by the framework even with keys != 128 bits. So it fails > > when the session is opened. This prevents setkey/ipsec to work with > > key length != 128 bits if the driver is loaded. > > If I read code properly, there is currently no way for a driver to say > to the opencrypto framework that only AES-CBC with 128bit key is > supported. A driver can only state that it supports AES-CBC, that's > all. As a workaround the driver should implement AES-CBC-192 and > AES-CBC-256 in software. Yes, but my question is about the maxoplen parameter. Was it intended for this case? Why we keep this parameter? IMHO, It is far easier to hack the OCF to use this parameter than to implement a workaround. It would be a better solution, by sample we may want to use the driver for AES-128 and another hardware that provides AES 192/256. Another (the best?) solution would be for the crypto framework to select another driver if the driver's newsession() fails. Regards. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 13:15:28 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2303106566C for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:15:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pjd@garage.freebsd.pl) Received: from mail.garage.freebsd.pl (chello087206045140.chello.pl [87.206.45.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29E0C8FC26 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:15:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pjd@garage.freebsd.pl) Received: by mail.garage.freebsd.pl (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 5826445C9B; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:15:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (pjd.wheel.pl [10.0.1.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.garage.freebsd.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E0CA456B1; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:15:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:15:25 +0200 From: Pawel Jakub Dawidek To: Patrick Lamaizi?re Message-ID: <20080721131525.GC2953@garage.freebsd.pl> References: <20080719005813.3a995c71@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> <20080720193955.GA2193@garage.freebsd.pl> <20080721141000.03127887@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Qbvjkv9qwOGw/5Fx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080721141000.03127887@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-PGP-Key-URL: http://people.freebsd.org/~pjd/pjd.asc X-OS: FreeBSD 8.0-CURRENT i386 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on mail.garage.freebsd.pl X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.9 required=3.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.4 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: crypto(9) and maxoplen X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:15:28 -0000 --Qbvjkv9qwOGw/5Fx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 02:10:00PM +0200, Patrick Lamaizi?re wrote: > Le Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:39:55 +0200, > Pawel Jakub Dawidek a =E9crit : >=20 > Hello, >=20 > > > In the "opencrypto framework" the function crypto_register() has an > > > argument 'maxoplen'. > > >=20 > > > http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/opencrypto/crypto.c#L625 > > >=20 > > > Does somebody know what was the goal of this parameter? It is not > > > used by the framework. > > >=20 > > > The man page of crypto(9) says : > > > For each algorithm the driver supports, it must then call > > > crypto_register(). The first two arguments are the driver and > > > algorithm identifiers. The next two arguments specify the largest > > > possible operator length (in bits, important for public key > > > operations) and flags for this algorithm. > > >=20 > > > I'm asking if it can help for this problem: the glxsb driver can > > > perform AES-CBC algorithm only with 128 bits key and may be > > > 'maxoplen' was intended for this case.=20 > > >=20 > > > Without something to specify the key's length, the driver is > > > selected by the framework even with keys !=3D 128 bits. So it fails > > > when the session is opened. This prevents setkey/ipsec to work with > > > key length !=3D 128 bits if the driver is loaded. > >=20 > > If I read code properly, there is currently no way for a driver to say > > to the opencrypto framework that only AES-CBC with 128bit key is > > supported. A driver can only state that it supports AES-CBC, that's > > all. As a workaround the driver should implement AES-CBC-192 and > > AES-CBC-256 in software. >=20 > Yes, but my question is about the maxoplen parameter. Was it intended > for this case? Why we keep this parameter? Can't help here, no idea. Eventhough it isn't something I'd like to see implemented. 'maxoplen' is just a little better than what we have now. And what if a driver supports 192 or 256 bits only? > IMHO, It is far easier to hack the OCF to use this parameter than > to implement a workaround. It would be a better solution, by > sample we may want to use the driver for AES-128 and another > hardware that provides AES 192/256. >=20 > Another (the best?) solution would be for the crypto framework to select > another driver if the driver's newsession() fails. There are many improvements that could be done in opencrypto framework, believe me. One of the things that annoys me a lot is that if you want to use IPsec with a driver that support only encryption, you have to implement hash functions in software for the given driver. Feel free to work on this, but be sure to avoid solutions like this maxoplen thing, which bascially isn't really a step further. Choosing another driver on newsession failure sounds reasonable, although we may lose informations like 'the caller wanted hardware crypto only'. --=20 Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl pjd@FreeBSD.org http://www.FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! --Qbvjkv9qwOGw/5Fx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFIhIvsForvXbEpPzQRAqvUAJ4puGaLH1tiR2lPb9ataSgMzqKK9wCcD+SD wy7ZpTsuj1ckv6ClhEQuDMU= =/f0d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Qbvjkv9qwOGw/5Fx-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 16:12:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF5C71065684 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:12:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sam@freebsd.org) Received: from ebb.errno.com (ebb.errno.com [69.12.149.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4AE8FC32 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:12:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sam@freebsd.org) Received: from trouble.errno.com (trouble.errno.com [10.0.0.248]) (authenticated bits=0) by ebb.errno.com (8.13.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id m6LFp6jm022193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:51:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sam@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4884B06A.8030701@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:51:06 -0700 From: Sam Leffler Organization: FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071125) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Patrick Lamaizi?re References: <20080719005813.3a995c71@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> <20080720193955.GA2193@garage.freebsd.pl> <20080721141000.03127887@baby-jane-lamaiziere-net.local> <20080721131525.GC2953@garage.freebsd.pl> In-Reply-To: <20080721131525.GC2953@garage.freebsd.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: ebb.errno.com; whitelist Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Pawel Jakub Dawidek Subject: Re: crypto(9) and maxoplen X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:12:19 -0000 Pawel Jakub Dawidek wrote: > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 02:10:00PM +0200, Patrick Lamaizi?re wrote: > >> Le Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:39:55 +0200, >> Pawel Jakub Dawidek a écrit : >> >> Hello, >> >> >>>> In the "opencrypto framework" the function crypto_register() has an >>>> argument 'maxoplen'. >>>> >>>> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/opencrypto/crypto.c#L625 >>>> >>>> Does somebody know what was the goal of this parameter? It is not >>>> used by the framework. >>>> >>>> The man page of crypto(9) says : >>>> For each algorithm the driver supports, it must then call >>>> crypto_register(). The first two arguments are the driver and >>>> algorithm identifiers. The next two arguments specify the largest >>>> possible operator length (in bits, important for public key >>>> operations) and flags for this algorithm. >>>> >>>> I'm asking if it can help for this problem: the glxsb driver can >>>> perform AES-CBC algorithm only with 128 bits key and may be >>>> 'maxoplen' was intended for this case. >>>> >>>> Without something to specify the key's length, the driver is >>>> selected by the framework even with keys != 128 bits. So it fails >>>> when the session is opened. This prevents setkey/ipsec to work with >>>> key length != 128 bits if the driver is loaded. >>>> >>> If I read code properly, there is currently no way for a driver to say >>> to the opencrypto framework that only AES-CBC with 128bit key is >>> supported. A driver can only state that it supports AES-CBC, that's >>> all. As a workaround the driver should implement AES-CBC-192 and >>> AES-CBC-256 in software. >>> >> Yes, but my question is about the maxoplen parameter. Was it intended >> for this case? Why we keep this parameter? >> > > Can't help here, no idea. Eventhough it isn't something I'd like to see > implemented. 'maxoplen' is just a little better than what we have now. > And what if a driver supports 192 or 256 bits only? > > >> IMHO, It is far easier to hack the OCF to use this parameter than >> to implement a workaround. It would be a better solution, by >> sample we may want to use the driver for AES-128 and another >> hardware that provides AES 192/256. >> >> Another (the best?) solution would be for the crypto framework to select >> another driver if the driver's newsession() fails. >> > > There are many improvements that could be done in opencrypto framework, > believe me. One of the things that annoys me a lot is that if you want > to use IPsec with a driver that support only encryption, you have to > implement hash functions in software for the given driver. > > Feel free to work on this, but be sure to avoid solutions like this > maxoplen thing, which bascially isn't really a step further. Choosing > another driver on newsession failure sounds reasonable, although we may > lose informations like 'the caller wanted hardware crypto only'. > I've lost track of the history behind maxoplen. As Pawel says a max parameter is only minimally useful in describing device capabilities. My main comment is that I used to consider it important to maintain interoperability w/ obsd for the sake of sharing work. However we've long since diverged such that it's infeasible so revamping api's is fair game. If people want to work on the crypto framework that'd be great; they might also take a look at Thor's netbsd work to improve performance of applications that use /dev/crypto (e.g. openssl). Sam From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 20:56:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99D5106573F; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:56:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from server.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C56C8FC1D; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:56:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.corp.yahoo.com (john@localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6LKuQkQ084412; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:56:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:34:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <78c6bd860807121611w4f6ab44brbebfffea9929682a@mail.gmail.com> <78c6bd860807171854o6e566b2h6ee3b77008dc541f@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200807211434.21441.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH authentication, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (server.baldwin.cx [IPv6:::1]); Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:56:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.1/7770/Mon Jul 21 15:30:47 2008 on server.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.2 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on server.baldwin.cx Cc: Michael B Allen , "Sean C. Farley" Subject: Re: Pls sanity check my semtimedop(2) implementation X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:56:45 -0000 On Friday 18 July 2008 12:27:05 pm Sean C. Farley wrote: > On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, Michael B Allen wrote: > > *snip* > > > But I'll keep it in mind for the future. I don't recall why I chose > > System V semaphores originally. I think process-shared semantics in > > the POSIX implementations where not mature at the time. I would love > > to move away from System V semaphores. It's all too easy to leak them > > and trying to clean up on restart is dangerous. > > It is my understanding that process-shared is not currently supported at > least in 7. > > Does anyone know if there is any intention of this being eventually > supported? I have needed this in the past but do not need it at the > moment. It would be nice to have someday. There aren't currently plans, no. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 06:43:13 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1160E1065671 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:43:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanefbsd@gmail.com) Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.189]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A37F18FC24 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:43:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanefbsd@gmail.com) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k31so1285677fkk.11 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:43:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=EX7O1tyGAm23iC9tlDotF+GgEbYoxQ6FeTS/Q0zEdOE=; b=LN2yHZffhheAegCEIxStV1G6NVOyCxgIymNXV5h+Z39rZM8Y+VqLBx4d8qcnAyq5BF meaVewilxpkhu8Zpm3RSXKXiH3dEDZ8BrkQkN8s+i1NOnho+GDOz+RkS3RnUzaMbobzS 2C3SdlwR93pR8vvnoGZKl4bkXF4NKvbcdvuFU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=R9ADF3p3p2Aa9tBv8IhDY7V4iYL7xFR38A5whYIKS0p6RZ3D81xn2j87T9pgQoUtRt iaarM2DlFiayR33uzy7Iaj5A7fhUxnMx1nALbD1GpR/2XqEGHg5Gwii0EF5ZI60jmd4L 5tycL6hps+vUhaORW1spC+PtuzdcHnYQ2jLjI= Received: by 10.180.206.12 with SMTP id d12mr2498077bkg.33.1216708991944; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.51.1 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d6fde3d0807212343i69526416h35a3d961fac0c9d9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:43:11 -0700 From: "Garrett Cooper" To: jkoshy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: TET and other testing framework for FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:43:13 -0000 Hi Joseph (and hackers), I'm contacting Joseph primarily because I saw his name listed under the TET page (http://wiki.freebsd.org/TetIntegration) as a contact and was wondering whether or not there was any interest to integrate test suites outside of TET into FreeBSD, but I'm also involving hackers@ because there might be some references that someone can provide me for other @freebsd folks. I ask because my work with LTP (Linux Test Project : http://ltp.sf.net) for Cisco has allowed me some insight into using OpenPOSIX and Ballista testing frameworks, which may prove helpful in the release testing cause, and could help in detecting faults earlier on, thus helping expedite the release process a bit more and increasing confidence and interest in FreeBSD. I'm pretty sure I have the blessings of the Ballista project's principal investigator to relicense it under the BSD / GPL license, it's currently a 'dead project' and he gave his blessings to post the source up on Sourceforge, but I'll double check to make sure I have his AOK before doing so... I'm also working on getting tst_res (1.) dually licensed from the LTP folks with a BSD / GPL license to allow for better inclusion into FreeBSD's infrastructure, to ensure that we have a deterministic means of dealing with testcases and reporting. Just wondering what, if any, interest would be in adopting and applying this work to FreeBSD for the good of the community. Thanks, -Garrett 1. tst_res is a set of uniform whitebox testcase API's that are a part of LTP, currently available in just C-format, but I hope to also add proper bourne shell, Java, Perl, and Python bindings. The source is GPLv2 licensed and currently 'owned' by SGI, so I'm awaiting feedback from them as to whether or not it's OK to relicense the source. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 09:11:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00723106567E for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:11:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from redbull.bpaserver.net (redbullneu.bpaserver.net [213.198.78.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7A68FC33 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:10:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p54A56988.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.105.136]) by redbull.bpaserver.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C365F2E0F8; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:10:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (webmail.leidinger.net [192.168.1.102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5136370B53; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:10:39 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=Leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1216717839; bh=2s3yrYlf3G8hpRXwcfXXTG2k9mZpy7xW4 47JfItQi40=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References: In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Oi0rgke/lZPdQlx8N3imi/lduN6JJTbpwbk1I1EBWcR0ZIAVv8GZYq+0I4bU+LEYU 23Gv6CH3QYVXPY0lEdZQO2ncQY+PtBs7Xz25alscER5N94W3gjjk6eloJQ8iMxlO8rL bY+Fc8VFuggU8C/2gmEgXk8cw1pOdALV/l4lNq72wKZ+4gTd26TwliFW7myZEeUNn6C nJW7Tn/L86LpvSIGC7IeQtMnuGfoV2pnGO3fbq1H7Go027eYyzHscrkcyeqef+eIbhY JrM/XIlGhKl3vIVYKqJP0QyxkHE7cFAgJVZ6bNXUeg8r5JjRmPnzshamG2/SDlf+LvA vwp5NrMPQ== Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.2/8.13.8/Submit) id m6M9Acnh017631; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:10:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.cec.eu.int (pslux.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:10:38 +0200 Message-ID: <20080722111038.21404k434075zx8g@webmail.leidinger.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:10:38 +0200 From: "Alexander Leidinger" To: "Garrett Cooper" References: <7d6fde3d0807212343i69526416h35a3d961fac0c9d9@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7d6fde3d0807212343i69526416h35a3d961fac0c9d9@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.2) / FreeBSD-8.0 X-BPAnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-BPAnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-BPAnet-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, ORDB-RBL, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-14.9, required 6, BAYES_00 -15.00, DKIM_SIGNED 0.00, DKIM_VERIFIED -0.00, RDNS_DYNAMIC 0.10) X-BPAnet-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-Spam-Status: No X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:23:27 +0000 Cc: jkoshy@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: TET and other testing framework for FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:11:00 -0000 Quoting "Garrett Cooper" (from Mon, 21 Jul 2008 =20 23:43:11 -0700): > Hi Joseph (and hackers), > I'm contacting Joseph primarily because I saw his name listed > under the TET page (http://wiki.freebsd.org/TetIntegration) as a > contact and was wondering whether or not there was any interest to > integrate test suites outside of TET into FreeBSD, but I'm also > involving hackers@ because there might be some references that someone > can provide me for other @freebsd folks. AFAIK there's no TET stuff for FreeBSD available in public. So I would =20 say it's more having regression tests available (making them compile =20 and run on FreeBSD, having a look at the failing tests and see if it =20 is a problem with the test or with FreeBSD ... see below for my =20 experience with the LTP) at all, than integrating them. > I ask because my work with LTP (Linux Test Project : > http://ltp.sf.net) for Cisco has allowed me some insight into using > OpenPOSIX and Ballista testing frameworks, which may prove helpful in > the release testing cause, and could help in detecting faults earlier > on, thus helping expedite the release process a bit more and > increasing confidence and interest in FreeBSD. Do you have any URLs or whatever besides the LTP one (where those are =20 integrated) to get those tests from an official point instead from =20 cutting it out of the LTP? > I'm pretty sure I have the blessings of the Ballista project's > principal investigator to relicense it under the BSD / GPL license, > it's currently a 'dead project' and he gave his blessings to post the > source up on Sourceforge, but I'll double check to make sure I have > his AOK before doing so... I think it would be beneficial so the what this produces on FreeBSD =20 (the license doesn't matter here) before we go and talk about =20 integration (here the license matters). > I'm also working on getting tst_res (1.) dually licensed from > the LTP folks with a BSD / GPL license to allow for better inclusion > into FreeBSD's infrastructure, to ensure that we have a deterministic > means of dealing with testcases and reporting. > Just wondering what, if any, interest would be in adopting and > applying this work to FreeBSD for the good of the community. If this is what is used in the LTP to run some tests, I have to say it =20 does not look mature. I've run the LTP a lot in FreeBSD (native linux =20 binaries, http://wiki.FreeBSD.org/linux-kernel/ltp ... LTP not run and =20 updated the page since a long time) to test the linux compatibility =20 layer, and the are several places where tests fail and no output is =20 produced or even the summary said the test passed. I even opened bug =20 reports at the LTP page on SF, but it seems nobody was interested in =20 those reports. There are also some other ideas, like using the protocol the perl test =20 suites use, to be able to use existing perl stuff to generate reports =20 and overviews out of the generated logs (AFAIR this was the idea =20 behind some changes to the existing regression tests a long time ago). Bye, Alexander. --=20 I read Playboy for the same reason I read National Geographic. To see the sights I'm never going to visit. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 72077137 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 15:31:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8F91065683 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:31:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanefbsd@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.152]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C2358FC2E for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:31:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanefbsd@gmail.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so1188036fgb.35 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:31:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=SlTtD5FPHjv8JT2VaLssvsZ049y9ANF86+dn6CDjNg8=; b=uEEOvtHI03SlsDwQIznazn1gXeD7Z05pdqx0eyDi1Y9lXX5GDk9puAeJ81DDzKXkrU fYgnILFnhUnb5vaXuQu161dFehuViMpcifaTncNkXvFD5oRddxVEJe6UayXssgmLY+kJ +DncmgRH5BLJOMLqbzVNO5uZTI7rDqK/O21RI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=Thb3gmDcxG2pFxKo+MFpWvzXIHIMpZUZeaQ1jVPvLZP4MzS+efn6n/sB2fhxOA/+63 PuOd3pwjHixQx5Ea8mPq9KBZEk/0iaVLF/f4F/262bhMSiqYDEqPFzHI4JNpWdebtJOv yCb/vx7aWvnn2HTNaSA58nbFtuVI9HWTeQHtM= Received: by 10.86.63.19 with SMTP id l19mr6417084fga.60.1216740673025; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.51.1 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d6fde3d0807220831u185d6c6dlbb6a92cdbedb6be@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:31:12 -0700 From: "Garrett Cooper" To: "Alexander Leidinger" In-Reply-To: <20080722111038.21404k434075zx8g@webmail.leidinger.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7d6fde3d0807212343i69526416h35a3d961fac0c9d9@mail.gmail.com> <20080722111038.21404k434075zx8g@webmail.leidinger.net> Cc: jkoshy@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: TET and other testing framework for FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:31:15 -0000 On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:10 AM, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > Quoting "Garrett Cooper" (from Mon, 21 Jul 2008 > 23:43:11 -0700): > >> Hi Joseph (and hackers), >> I'm contacting Joseph primarily because I saw his name listed >> under the TET page (http://wiki.freebsd.org/TetIntegration) as a >> contact and was wondering whether or not there was any interest to >> integrate test suites outside of TET into FreeBSD, but I'm also >> involving hackers@ because there might be some references that someone >> can provide me for other @freebsd folks. > > AFAIK there's no TET stuff for FreeBSD available in public. So I would say > it's more having regression tests available (making them compile and run on > FreeBSD, having a look at the failing tests and see if it is a problem with > the test or with FreeBSD ... see below for my experience with the LTP) at > all, than integrating them. Ok. Sounds like a reasonable requirement for any test infrastructure. >> I ask because my work with LTP (Linux Test Project : >> http://ltp.sf.net) for Cisco has allowed me some insight into using >> OpenPOSIX and Ballista testing frameworks, which may prove helpful in >> the release testing cause, and could help in detecting faults earlier >> on, thus helping expedite the release process a bit more and >> increasing confidence and interest in FreeBSD. > > Do you have any URLs or whatever besides the LTP one (where those are > integrated) to get those tests from an official point instead from cutting > it out of the LTP? I've contacted the PI and he said the the project is essentially dead from his end (not enough resources to maintain, grad students `slaves' left the project and got jobs =), etc). Currently the best way to grab the sources is just to peel away the snapshot from LTP as it's the only publicly and most available copy online (I believe that there've been a few fixes tossed into Ballista as-is). Funny thing is that a lot of groups contributed to the project, it's GPL based, yet nothing has changed in the source for quite some time... >> I'm pretty sure I have the blessings of the Ballista project's >> principal investigator to relicense it under the BSD / GPL license, >> it's currently a 'dead project' and he gave his blessings to post the >> source up on Sourceforge, but I'll double check to make sure I have >> his AOK before doing so... > > I think it would be beneficial so the what this produces on FreeBSD (the > license doesn't matter here) before we go and talk about integration (here > the license matters). Indeed. >> I'm also working on getting tst_res (1.) dually licensed from >> the LTP folks with a BSD / GPL license to allow for better inclusion >> into FreeBSD's infrastructure, to ensure that we have a deterministic >> means of dealing with testcases and reporting. >> Just wondering what, if any, interest would be in adopting and >> applying this work to FreeBSD for the good of the community. > > If this is what is used in the LTP to run some tests, I have to say it does > not look mature. I've run the LTP a lot in FreeBSD (native linux binaries, > http://wiki.FreeBSD.org/linux-kernel/ltp ... LTP not run and updated the > page since a long time) to test the linux compatibility layer, and the are > several places where tests fail and no output is produced or even the > summary said the test passed. I even opened bug reports at the LTP page on > SF, but it seems nobody was interested in those reports. tst_res consists of the functions: tst_res tst_resm tst_brk tst_brkm tst_brkloop tst_brkloopm tst_exit which (thanks to some feedback) has finally made it up onto its own online manpage: http://ltp.sourceforge.net/ltpmantemp.php?file=man3/tst_res.html This is the simple output and behavior modification API's that produce messages like (according to the sample on the manpage): tsttcs01 1 PASS : Able to create MAXUP processes tsttcs01 2 FAIL : Too many processes (MAXUP+1) created tsttcs01 3 BROK : tabinfo(PROCTAB, &tbs) failed; errno = 13: Permission denied tsttcs01 4-10 BROK : Remaining cases broken tsttcs01 0 WARN : cleanup(): kill(0, SIGALRM) failed; errno = 3: No such process > There are also some other ideas, like using the protocol the perl test > suites use, to be able to use existing perl stuff to generate reports and > overviews out of the generated logs (AFAIR this was the idea behind some > changes to the existing regression tests a long time ago). I have yet to really explore Test::Harness, but while I like Perl and I'm sure that Test::Harness is as good as people laud it to be, I find dealing with Perl to be cumbersome as they tend to break some stuff between releases =(... Cheers, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 06:26:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 994FB106564A for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:26:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanefbsd@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.156]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC138FC19 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:26:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanefbsd@gmail.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so1372460fgb.35 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:26:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=5BXwdTUNPsuWxeD1QZ7vQ2bMALd2K5g89ftd6DBO6A0=; b=sM3gy3o2EpKijEJsvulleack8Ee6HwCPhaVKApmWl6SqbrVYvTGem2AdV74slOv2Ew fyBvCyE2gMaRQuu8PLoh9uKcxuIVRxG3Mn6OEGwEDCiGNnlksdeRUdi5wQU7ThrR1hdo WxVbY4gtzKhNVLXVHvvBYCAGHWQj/Wxm3U95Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=q+1tjuFM38PhQHcKgJB9ltIC9JtV3DAEPAlkO3b+DishZxjomiR+5FS1BuuQI6xm16 7fbB3+Mx8ik3oMLro79aFpWWHxA6wa5dV7BYrvclcgf6moxBbEbZP2l4oCeXhm/SOaFj igz0txfwI6viaGCBlZqjvOiR5WHD7rquw413s= Received: by 10.86.93.19 with SMTP id q19mr4479293fgb.67.1216794402507; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.51.1 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d6fde3d0807222326m3b906d17w76fdb2943d9c38d5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:26:42 -0700 From: "Garrett Cooper" To: "Alexander Leidinger" In-Reply-To: <20080723072122.29891m0id5yoctes@webmail.leidinger.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7d6fde3d0807212343i69526416h35a3d961fac0c9d9@mail.gmail.com> <20080722111038.21404k434075zx8g@webmail.leidinger.net> <7d6fde3d0807220831u185d6c6dlbb6a92cdbedb6be@mail.gmail.com> <20080723072122.29891m0id5yoctes@webmail.leidinger.net> Cc: jkoshy@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: TET and other testing framework for FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:26:44 -0000 On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > Quoting "Garrett Cooper" (from Tue, 22 Jul 2008 > 08:31:12 -0700): > >> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:10 AM, Alexander Leidinger >> wrote: >>> >>> Quoting "Garrett Cooper" (from Mon, 21 Jul 2008 >>> 23:43:11 -0700): > >>>> I'm also working on getting tst_res (1.) dually licensed from >>>> the LTP folks with a BSD / GPL license to allow for better inclusion >>>> into FreeBSD's infrastructure, to ensure that we have a deterministic >>>> means of dealing with testcases and reporting. >>>> Just wondering what, if any, interest would be in adopting and >>>> applying this work to FreeBSD for the good of the community. >>> >>> If this is what is used in the LTP to run some tests, I have to say it >>> does >>> not look mature. I've run the LTP a lot in FreeBSD (native linux >>> binaries, >>> http://wiki.FreeBSD.org/linux-kernel/ltp ... LTP not run and updated the >>> page since a long time) to test the linux compatibility layer, and the >>> are >>> several places where tests fail and no output is produced or even the >>> summary said the test passed. I even opened bug reports at the LTP page >>> on >>> SF, but it seems nobody was interested in those reports. >> >> tst_res consists of the functions: >> >> tst_res >> tst_resm >> tst_brk >> tst_brkm >> tst_brkloop >> tst_brkloopm >> tst_exit >> >> which (thanks to some feedback) has finally made it up onto its own >> online manpage: >> >> http://ltp.sourceforge.net/ltpmantemp.php?file=man3/tst_res.html >> >> This is the simple output and behavior modification API's that produce >> messages like (according to the sample on the manpage): >> >> tsttcs01 1 PASS : Able to create MAXUP processes >> tsttcs01 2 FAIL : Too many processes (MAXUP+1) created >> tsttcs01 3 BROK : tabinfo(PROCTAB, &tbs) failed; errno = >> 13: Permission denied >> tsttcs01 4-10 BROK : Remaining cases broken >> tsttcs01 0 WARN : cleanup(): kill(0, SIGALRM) failed; errno >> = 3: No such process > > And this is where I've seen problems while testing the linux compatibility > layer in FreeBSD. Some tests said PASS when in reality they didn't pass but > died. I don't know if this is fixed now, it's been a while when I reported > this. Yeah, and I've seen tests hang on LTP, but that's because people don't monitor test execution but just claim that since it works, it's fine. I try to keep abreast of these things because test quality's important; otherwise your results are worth no more than a $2 bill! >>> There are also some other ideas, like using the protocol the perl test >>> suites use, to be able to use existing perl stuff to generate reports and >>> overviews out of the generated logs (AFAIR this was the idea behind some >>> changes to the existing regression tests a long time ago). >> >> I have yet to really explore Test::Harness, but while I like Perl and >> I'm sure that Test::Harness is as good as people laud it to be, I find >> dealing with Perl to be cumbersome as they tend to break some stuff >> between releases =(... > > I don't know if I was clear, the tests themself are written in C (or > whatever) and not in perl, the goal as I remember it was to be able to use > the already existing perl tools where we don't care about the development, > as someone else will fix broken things because it is used for perl itself. > > Bye, > Alexander. Hmmm... I've also been forced into working with Python nose lately, and while I might not be a Python officiando, I do find the framework to be expeditious and simple to use. Just another thought, because Python seems to be a better base framework... -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 14:34:34 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4552D106566B; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:34:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from tinker.exit.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:47e::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 144D48FC1D; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:34:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: from jill.exit.com (jill.exit.com [IPv6:2001:470:80f4:0:2e0:81ff:fe33:7e9a]) by tinker.exit.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6OEU4vY081117; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:30:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=exit.com; s=tinker; t=1216909804; bh=0S9gHm3XhwnEGv5UyH0suPxV138FvSiWyUx4NitgGik=; h=Subject:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Date:Message-Id:Mime-Version; b=hj7jQ7gS BjkZZ+pkDvdCXaHn8vVg61+ijMXJtbUUR8ZZ9VLpsruniYRobaivLAUOIMjtueT1ZQg fDncoTB9EnJIreYXRiDpk9LoTSMckzZ2P0lzA21QR9KebZIhndyhgwaZwoY8qQoj7Sb BgTTov6L7haP58RcU9/vjlmZDv6pY= Received: from jill.exit.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jill.exit.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6OEYXxg002465; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:34:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) Received: (from frank@localhost) by jill.exit.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m6OEYXoO002464; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:34:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from frank@exit.com) X-Authentication-Warning: jill.exit.com: frank set sender to frank@exit.com using -f From: Frank Mayhar To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Exit Consulting Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:34:32 -0700 Message-Id: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93/7404/Sun Jun 8 09:19:18 2008 on tinker.exit.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: frank@exit.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:34:34 -0000 My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't read -mobile). My criteria: * 3D acceleration. * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it anyway). * At least 15" screen. * Decent power consumption. * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. Nice to have: * Dual core. * >4GB memory. * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my breath). So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after ordering/installing it. -- Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/ Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/ http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/ http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar* From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 15:04:32 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA15D1065675 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:04:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zam4ever@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.247]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 634B48FC08 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:04:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zam4ever@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b33so999928ana.13 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:04:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=e2xrCw+qIfxhFOKap5MQunt1ODwx6AMAAppVoRFuyY4=; b=v4CdaToSKE0D6OkPT8E04ZCSbrxlirYlcuB7lQwn7gGxhWf8Ge8Kmnlxn7NzAdKCfg y8wU2d9l6NRT61bWtzDVKHFxfQNJquA2k85NB6qvfRHlFB8ViJAD1/TbNx2EGig6m02y VHquXGxJJhFDJvNxtksac5pfH16kfbuOE3jts= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=GAaCKbm52vzuH3cV9iVc97LJJWv6IJHqh1oTP0elrSDDJvPh20dFzh95Nn8xElE72w +agwk9H0Q3aK1yV5qH6Z7uu9VRA3UmT4QHv04cW0HukRz2pwHA3kkgsPM+f+6GrVImIr S5wqx2JZ5e34FKZe9aJA50ScZLaJLtOVlg2KU= Received: by 10.100.253.5 with SMTP id a5mr685786ani.5.1216910362677; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.232.16 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:39:22 +0800 From: "Zamri Besar" To: frank@exit.com In-Reply-To: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:55:20 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:04:32 -0000 On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Frank Mayhar wrote: > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > read -mobile). > > My criteria: > * 3D acceleration. > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it > anyway). > * At least 15" screen. > * Decent power consumption. > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. > > Nice to have: > * Dual core. > * >4GB memory. > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my > breath). > > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after > ordering/installing it. > > If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check following articles for further tips/advices: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/laptop/index.html http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ http://tuxmobil.org/mobile_bsd.html and off-course, freebsd-mobile archive: http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile -- Thank you. -zamri- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 20:21:41 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 119E51065679 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:21:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 056F08FC17 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:21:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B7A2F1CC0A0; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:21:40 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Zamri Besar Message-ID: <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:21:41 -0000 On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:39:22PM +0800, Zamri Besar wrote: > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Frank Mayhar wrote: > > > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, > > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > > read -mobile). > > > > My criteria: > > * 3D acceleration. > > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it > > anyway). > > * At least 15" screen. > > * Decent power consumption. > > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. > > > > Nice to have: > > * Dual core. > > * >4GB memory. > > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my > > breath). > > > > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for > > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after > > ordering/installing it. > > > > > > If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer > T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check following > articles for further tips/advices: > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/laptop/index.html > http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ > http://tuxmobil.org/mobile_bsd.html > > and off-course, freebsd-mobile archive: > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile And if you go with Lenovo, be aware that their T60/T60p/T61/T61p series (and possibly the X-series) are known to sport very high temperatures. Some people have reported temperatures of nearly 90C on their GPU (when idling), which has a direct effect on the overall temperature of the CPU (due to close proximity) and so on. This requires the fan to be on at almost all times (usually low-speed mode). Others have it worse (the laptop literally shutting off in the middle of operation): http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/stable/2008-06/msg00020.html Many of these laptops emit a strange high-pitch electrical noise which fluxuates in frequency and amplitude; of course, a lot of people can't hear it, which is good for them. This was tracked down to some power saving features listed in the BIOS (of both the CPU and the chipset), which you can disable: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_high_pitch_noises Be sure to look at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60p, specifically the very bottom of the page. You'll notice a very large number of problem entries. A lot of them have no real response from Lenovo. Draw your own conclusions. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 20:47:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39CC91065676 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:47:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from auryn@zirakzigil.org) Received: from aurynhome1sv1.zirakzigil.org (mail.zirakzigil.org [82.63.178.63]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E34D8FC1D for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:47:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from auryn@zirakzigil.org) Received: (qmail 30493 invoked by uid 98); 24 Jul 2008 20:47:31 -0000 Received: from 192.168.229.11 by aurynhome1sv1.zirakzigil.org (envelope-from , uid 89) with qmail-scanner-1.25 ( Clear:RC:1(192.168.229.11):. Processed in 0.040227 secs); 24 Jul 2008 20:47:31 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: auryn@zirakzigil.org via aurynhome1sv1.zirakzigil.org X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.25 (Clear:RC:1(192.168.229.11):. Processed in 0.040227 secs) Received: from unknown (HELO aurynhome1ws2.zirakzigil.org) (postmaster@zirakzigil.org@192.168.229.11) by 0 with SMTP; 24 Jul 2008 20:47:31 -0000 Message-ID: <4888EA5D.1050704@zirakzigil.org> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:47:25 +0200 From: Giulio Ferro User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070513) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-jail@freebsd.org References: <4881C486.8040401@zirakzigil.org> <20080720090947.F57089@maildrop.int.zabbadoz.net> In-Reply-To: <20080720090947.F57089@maildrop.int.zabbadoz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: multi-ip jail patch on freebsd 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:47:35 -0000 Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote: >> Since the multi-ip jail feature isn't yet part of the base system >> (why???) >> I was searching the internet for a suitable patch to apply manually. >> >> I couldn't find any. The one I found didn't apply cleanly to a 7 system. >> Can any of you point me to a working multi-ip jail patch? > > freebsd-jail@ would be a better list. > > I would happily point you at one but my webserver is down at the > moment. I hope you can waut anther few days as I am swamped... > Thanks anyway, I'll ask there... From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 21:31:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CEC1065672 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:31:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matheusber@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A4348FC15 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:31:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matheusber@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so2279297pyb.10 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:31:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:received:message-id :in-reply-to:references:date:subject:from:to:cc:user-agent :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority :importance:sender; bh=FJV/+l65l7NGzTq6v9dwoUmgk14VwxYPPTEKMpNweFo=; b=MiVrE+ljJXGnXx/FKBktQxXKXJZofHspHdMaNgYbBrDsBCIZvMCqnv5KP9lObFR4UY Jx+kZfG1BJxJSgtRTzxg3LHXt4O3+ErNEADrvmxTclmUjUjfbR0X3IMkmIYN4l8Ex2bx JJ3DzLOdBz9askJpXCHsifOE0eqhF7kIEbtmo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:subject:from:to:cc :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-priority:importance:sender; b=jgOcXoCm+kY8W6RKBpVbJjL4tN+/PQVCWpYHPCJd5bcUjGIvwitFAeofmtTyiz/wLX wZqZ3pYNR9xwPhj6mDrg8YVUrX3TeRs2O6IKn2/0X31R39IRXCXLc1ewDTFe2MIHldfT JG6WzRxzK8cUHJIJWbPLsh4E27OFeaYI445VU= Received: by 10.65.116.9 with SMTP id t9mr1363977qbm.51.1216933484871; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cygnus.homeunix.com ( [189.71.78.134]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 25sm12701598qbw.1.2008.07.24.14.04.41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by cygnus.homeunix.com (Postfix, from userid 80) id 10219121; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:04:37 -0300 (BRT) Received: from 200.252.157.118 (proxying for 10.12.1.211, 10.12.1.3) (SquirrelMail authenticated user matheus@eternamente.info) by cygnus.homeunix.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:04:37 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <6052d0c1b836ba4c65d70293dc6488e1.squirrel@cygnus.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:04:37 -0300 (BRT) From: "Nenhum_de_Nos" To: "Jeremy Chadwick" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Sender: Nenhum_de_Nos X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:58:14 +0000 Cc: Zamri Besar , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:31:03 -0000 On Thu, July 24, 2008 17:21, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:39:22PM +0800, Zamri Besar wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Frank Mayhar wrote: >> >> > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, >> sigh, >> > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from >> > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >> > read -mobile). >> > >> > My criteria: >> > * 3D acceleration. >> > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >> > anyway). >> > * At least 15" screen. >> > * Decent power consumption. >> > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >> > >> > Nice to have: >> > * Dual core. >> > * >4GB memory. >> > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >> > breath). >> > >> > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it >> for >> > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >> > ordering/installing it. >> > >> > >> >> If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer >> T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check >> following >> articles for further tips/advices: >> >> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/laptop/index.html >> http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ >> http://tuxmobil.org/mobile_bsd.html >> >> and off-course, freebsd-mobile archive: >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile > > And if you go with Lenovo, be aware that their T60/T60p/T61/T61p series > (and possibly the X-series) are known to sport very high temperatures. > Some people have reported temperatures of nearly 90C on their GPU (when > idling), which has a direct effect on the overall temperature of the CPU > (due to close proximity) and so on. This requires the fan to be on at > almost all times (usually low-speed mode). Others have it worse (the > laptop literally shutting off in the middle of operation): > > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/stable/2008-06/msg00020.html > > Many of these laptops emit a strange high-pitch electrical noise which > fluxuates in frequency and amplitude; of course, a lot of people can't > hear it, which is good for them. This was tracked down to some power > saving features listed in the BIOS (of both the CPU and the chipset), > which you can disable: > http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_high_pitch_noises > > Be sure to look at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60p, > specifically the very bottom of the page. You'll notice a very large > number of problem entries. A lot of them have no real response from > Lenovo. > > Draw your own conclusions. > > -- > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | > | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mobile-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" My Asus F3T behaves very alike. The GPU gets too much hot and then everything else suffers. Although I never saw any temperature based forced shutdown, I can't say its impossible. Well, I read in the net that Turions are really much hotter, but when running windows and some linux it is not that hot. apart from this, and the last year harddisk load_cycle-will-kill-your-hd bug, everything but the sound volume works fine. Atheros wifi is ok, nfe based ethernet is ok, just never had any device to test bluetooth. the nVidia vga also runs fine. matheus -- We will call you cygnus, The God of balance you shall be From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 22:42:49 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7194B106566C for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:42:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamesfrancistoy@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.238]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 402C78FC0C for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:42:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamesfrancistoy@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id b25so3786252rvf.43 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:42:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=jfnVd/vUOiKfJo4nXC+BksdOENDeC0zxxLr+P3u8Gko=; b=ivPlS/5O5jhQJsaBBDnBa1wKzH/8mHnlmnxwTjo9CnGq32H4e0Hj9VGBBugYtDmjkw nme7LR6Xbp7TeMMnhq9y1xtkj27dBorW6RwrMtHBQnF4OReYJsX43yAO/Fnqg0R2FRWa /7JHBETduBb8lbrZoeod0Sg1nKHk/+wypPHjg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=sPG0b5AWE7lg9x91dgaCPpPalbsMvs29QRMpLDcXPC+E2qFZW2CnShwXDspxoeGnxh MFyNjRO1IzHRVWe52gwcMol6FFrH+/ac2JbPrv6ICNEfkF+uhqDC7he97leO1W9bP+tc FAjcBSiLoOmHObL97d0bakzHMnb+7HTj8oF2s= Received: by 10.140.148.3 with SMTP id v3mr507553rvd.57.1216939368023; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.137.17 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9f8af95f0807241542p1954fe67pff35966f495c9618@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:42:47 -0400 From: jt Sender: jamesfrancistoy@gmail.com To: Nenhum_de_Nos In-Reply-To: <6052d0c1b836ba4c65d70293dc6488e1.squirrel@cygnus.homeunix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <6052d0c1b836ba4c65d70293dc6488e1.squirrel@cygnus.homeunix.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0261968edfcca0b1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:57:42 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Zamri Besar , Jeremy Chadwick , freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:42:49 -0000 On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Nenhum_de_Nos wrote: > > On Thu, July 24, 2008 17:21, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:39:22PM +0800, Zamri Besar wrote: > >> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Frank Mayhar wrote: > >> > >> > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, > >> sigh, > >> > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > >> > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > >> > read -mobile). > >> > > >> > My criteria: > >> > * 3D acceleration. > >> > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it > >> > anyway). > >> > * At least 15" screen. > >> > * Decent power consumption. > >> > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. > >> > > >> > Nice to have: > >> > * Dual core. > >> > * >4GB memory. > >> > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my > >> > breath). > >> > > >> > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it > >> for > >> > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after > >> > ordering/installing it. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer > >> T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check > >> following > >> articles for further tips/advices: > >> > >> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/laptop/index.html > >> http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ > >> http://tuxmobil.org/mobile_bsd.html > >> > >> and off-course, freebsd-mobile archive: > >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile > > > > And if you go with Lenovo, be aware that their T60/T60p/T61/T61p series > > (and possibly the X-series) are known to sport very high temperatures. > > Some people have reported temperatures of nearly 90C on their GPU (when > > idling), which has a direct effect on the overall temperature of the CPU > > (due to close proximity) and so on. This requires the fan to be on at > > almost all times (usually low-speed mode). Others have it worse (the > > laptop literally shutting off in the middle of operation): > > > > > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/stable/2008-06/msg00020.html > > > > Many of these laptops emit a strange high-pitch electrical noise which > > fluxuates in frequency and amplitude; of course, a lot of people can't > > hear it, which is good for them. This was tracked down to some power > > saving features listed in the BIOS (of both the CPU and the chipset), > > which you can disable: > > http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_high_pitch_noises > > > > Be sure to look at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60p, > > specifically the very bottom of the page. You'll notice a very large > > number of problem entries. A lot of them have no real response from > > Lenovo. > > > > Draw your own conclusions. > > > > -- > > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | > > | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | > > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | > > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mobile > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mobile-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " > > My Asus F3T behaves very alike. The GPU gets too much hot and then > everything else suffers. Although I never saw any temperature based forced > shutdown, I can't say its impossible. Well, I read in the net that Turions > are really much hotter, but when running windows and some linux it is not > that hot. > > apart from this, and the last year harddisk load_cycle-will-kill-your-hd > bug, everything but the sound volume works fine. Atheros wifi is ok, nfe > based ethernet is ok, just never had any device to test bluetooth. the > nVidia vga also runs fine. > > matheus > > > -- > We will call you cygnus, > The God of balance you shall be > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > all, I'm currently running a lenovo x61 tablet without much complaint -- i *do* notice that it gets hot from time to time -- its much better if its run on desk rather than a lap ;p -- ACPI is still a little shaky -- if you plan on getting a iwi miniPCI -- namely 4965 and the like there IS a driver for it and it currently is in -CURRENT -- you can also patch this to 7.0 with the perforce code -- both of those should be readily available on the freebsd page wiki -- i would recommend tracking current if i were on a laptop since more things are getting merged in the development and i find freebsd moving towards a more mobile and desktop world even though we are still focused on servers -- i expect you will not get sleep working since its easier i find for it to sleep than wake up -- thinkpads seem to work well and in my experience i find more and more programmers and open source oriented people getting them -- the nature of the projects sort of make people write code and drivers for the hardware that they have instead of just randomly supporting other machines -- subscribing to the acpi list might not be a bad idea -- i would poke them as well for a few hints if suspend is a huge deal for you -- hope this helps a bit respectfully -- jt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 00:48:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72EAE106568C for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:48:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gaijin.k@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.247]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2688F8FC0A for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:48:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gaijin.k@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b33so1152141ana.13 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:48:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:cc :in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version :x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cyaTKkq4G46/OnSqS6g8LEFhlgkR8cau+KCw2dFbC04=; b=MQGfWPDf1NL9Pl76JqnxeEFX9WQIotn5o7Y2EwO+++fFt8i8vz0iLJM9KoVpY/pFOH 2MpLEBfO0xz+BGum6/3/C/QHXObOLpX2whDdNhyoKhP+9pzRvse1+F6IPZdVKeFX6ENh 5B9EMrGJ/Jcj/vf23paygJ8S4HMMgYmvGjUL8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date :message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=M8usZaAxnUP8MysowLd3wSZR0w5Ek8cIpeC+nf7uL77F4CrNC1HdjGIvHs+OtyA2zN YSzVcdFTTZNF1sXn1KcEC9f9yDYGJdDBcpLLzMUthKO/MQluQquQ5UJMMuKw6G6fpEvs wgtQ70NhJFADE887itPXBDWJJ72/L6zwNKWGE= Received: by 10.100.123.4 with SMTP id v4mr1672193anc.107.1216945191290; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:19:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.0.3.231? ( [70.111.2.146]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 33sm6639707yxr.3.2008.07.24.17.19.50 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:19:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Alexandre \"Sunny\" Kovalenko" To: Zamri Besar In-Reply-To: References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:19:41 -0400 Message-Id: <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:00:23 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:48:43 -0000 On Thu, 2008-07-24 at 22:39 +0800, Zamri Besar wrote: > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Frank Mayhar wrote: > > > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, > > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > > read -mobile). > > > > My criteria: > > * 3D acceleration. > > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it > > anyway). > > * At least 15" screen. > > * Decent power consumption. > > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. > > > > Nice to have: > > * Dual core. > > * >4GB memory. > > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my > > breath). > > > > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for > > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after > > ordering/installing it. > > > > > > If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer > T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check following As someone who used (and use) 360, 701C, T30, T42p, X60 and T61p, I wholeheartedly agree with "past experiences"... with "past" being a key word. While I could not complain about FreeBSD support (none of the FreeBSD problems I have are ThinkPad-specific), manufacturing quality has gone down considerably. My not-two-years-old X60 chipped in places and my wife's 8-months-old T61p is no longer capable of keeping the screen upright. This is in the stark contrast with T42p I (ab)used for $work for more than three years, with the only visible outcome being loss of the caption on the "Enter" key. Battery on my X60 died few weeks past 1-year warranty ;-( Just 2c worth of the data points. -- Alexandre "Sunny" Kovalenko (ОлекÑандр Коваленко) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 06:26:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458B2106566C for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:26:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wilkinsa@obelix.dsto.defence.gov.au) Received: from digger1.defence.gov.au (digger1.defence.gov.au [203.5.217.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9156D8FC08 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:26:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wilkinsa@obelix.dsto.defence.gov.au) Received: from ednmsw510.dsto.defence.gov.au (ednmsw510.dsto.defence.gov.au [131.185.68.11]) by digger1.defence.gov.au (DSTO/DSTO) with ESMTP id m6P5qOVF011842 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:22:24 +0930 (CST) Received: from fmbex510.dsto.defence.gov.au (fmbex510.dsto.defence.gov.au) by ednmsw510.dsto.defence.gov.au (Clearswift SMTPRS 5.2.9) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:23:15 +0930 Received: from stlex510.dsto.defence.gov.au ([203.6.60.184]) by fmbex510.dsto.defence.gov.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:53:15 +1000 Received: from obelix.dsto.defence.gov.au ([203.6.60.208]) by stlex510.dsto.defence.gov.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:53:14 +0800 Received: from obelix.dsto.defence.gov.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by obelix.dsto.defence.gov.au (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6P5pZGY055258 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:51:35 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from wilkinsa@obelix.dsto.defence.gov.au) Received: (from wilkinsa@localhost) by obelix.dsto.defence.gov.au (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m6P5pZmB055257 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:51:35 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from wilkinsa) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:51:35 +0800 From: "Wilkinson, Alex" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> Organisation: Defence Science Technology Organisation User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2008 05:53:14.0899 (UTC) FILETIME=[BAB42E30:01C8EE1A] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:26:44 -0000 >> If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer >> T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check following >As someone who used (and use) 360, 701C, T30, T42p, X60 and T61p, I >wholeheartedly agree with "past experiences"... with "past" being a key >word. While I could not complain about FreeBSD support (none of the >FreeBSD problems I have are ThinkPad-specific), manufacturing quality >has gone down considerably. My not-two-years-old X60 chipped in places >and my wife's 8-months-old T61p is no longer capable of keeping the >screen upright. This is in the stark contrast with T42p I (ab)used for >$work for more than three years, with the only visible outcome being >loss of the caption on the "Enter" key. So if Thinkpads are no longer the go ... what is ? -aW IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence Organisation and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the CRIMES ACT 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 06:44:36 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8763D1065683 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:44:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689BD8FC1F for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:44:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 57C1D1CC0A3; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:44:36 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080725064436.GA64711@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:44:36 -0000 On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 01:51:35PM +0800, Wilkinson, Alex wrote: > >> If cost is not a big problem, then IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad Series (I prefer > >> T-series) is the best from my past experiences. And you may check following > >As someone who used (and use) 360, 701C, T30, T42p, X60 and T61p, I > >wholeheartedly agree with "past experiences"... with "past" being a key > >word. While I could not complain about FreeBSD support (none of the > >FreeBSD problems I have are ThinkPad-specific), manufacturing quality > >has gone down considerably. My not-two-years-old X60 chipped in places > >and my wife's 8-months-old T61p is no longer capable of keeping the > >screen upright. This is in the stark contrast with T42p I (ab)used for > >$work for more than three years, with the only visible outcome being > >loss of the caption on the "Enter" key. > > So if Thinkpads are no longer the go ... what is ? "I'm buying a new computer, what should I buy?" Buy whatever suits your needs, and feels comfortable for you. I'd recommend, if at all possible, going to a major computer store or electronics outlet and trying out a Lenovo. Spend 30 minutes with it. I realise you can't run FreeBSD on them, but get a feel for the machine itself -- if the keyboard works well with your fingers, if you like the mixed touchpad/fingertip mouse, if it feels sturdy to you, if you like the LCD, etc... Example: I really did not like the weight of the T60p. I'm a cyclist and do not drive, so hauling a laptop around means I prefer it to be light. My employer requires that all the T60ps use the larger battery, which plays a significant role. I tried a smaller model (I believe one with a 14" screen), and the weight was wonderful -- but after 20 minutes of use, I started experiencing headaches and nausea. The backlighting on the LCD was the cause, while I had no such problems using the T60p. My point is, you gotta use the machine for a little bit (even if in Windows) and get a feel for it. I know this is hard to do when most vendors nowadays expect people to just click-and-buy, but when spending that kind of money on something, it's worth trying first. With regards to OS compatibility, this is a difficult one. Googling to see what other people have experienced is pretty much the only option, or you get to find out yourself. Ideally in this day and age, you shouldn't have to worry about "hardware compatibility" with an OS; the OS should work with what you have, not the other way around. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 10:36:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64236106564A for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:36:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aggelidis.news@gmail.com) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.169]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 272558FC0C for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:36:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aggelidis.news@gmail.com) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so2461826wfg.7 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:36:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=tB+n/gq6K7uwSKRUPCgUIE/R4Gwuc8sBj0SWA+qrsZY=; b=bt08NwaIlfj5f7tCKTOCvccgetuBmOVtpvjlPpyMzT83b7l/i9IGqj1sqp9mCX/c4r AvFpbpv1myTmqKnVONKFhQNT07R4ggWenEQgp1sWTzjwTZEgyBikHFfN9LlYl/0olYZe fNL2qUjT98iERW23oDorRRsMBDeBWntY4U47Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=tFsFFShntcRLaw9+E0cbY2ZteQR85EcvNOOQ21u/IbnqWyDMLFdKqMloxa3ny87UIt 2ki2lE2V2rbD9kkt4xHZxOGb+TZumGD4J07aFqIhJtSjfpZWYQcjgRVwv6goGfd758f0 wzwGmRc4cxyHRnhhaYocNZGDvTf8C3wTI0FWc= Received: by 10.142.242.11 with SMTP id p11mr491349wfh.198.1216982197567; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.87.12 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <30fc78250807250336n4f52b0d0vd087fe01d1f940e6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:36:37 +0300 From: "Aggelidis Nikos" To: "Jeremy Chadwick" In-Reply-To: <20080725064436.GA64711@eos.sc1.parodius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> <20080725064436.GA64711@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:36:38 -0000 On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > "I'm buying a new computer, what should I buy?" > > Buy whatever suits your needs, and feels comfortable for you. > > With regards to OS compatibility, this is a difficult one. Googling to > see what other people have experienced is pretty much the only option, > or you get to find out yourself. But this is the reason Frank asks which computer to buy. I don't think he is expecting to be told about the weight of a laptop; he can figure this himself. But how can you figure OS compatibility from 20minutes test drive? That's why you ask for other persons experiences. Personally if i were to buy a laptop right now, i would buy one that would be fully compatible with bsd or linux even if this meant paying a few more euros or getting something heavier... Unfortunately this kind of info {OS-- compatibility} isn't advertised, or written in specs. >From my perspective freebsd should "advertise"(*) the laptops that work with it, out of the box, so that new users {like me} know what to buy; and large corporations have a benefit for promoting OS compatibility other than Windows(tm). -best regards nikos (*) when i say advertise , i mean make this info publicly available and easily accessible from the website From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 11:18:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17B201065672 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:18:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD238FC28 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:18:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E5BA11CC09F; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:18:51 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Aggelidis Nikos Message-ID: <20080725111851.GA76361@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> <20080725064436.GA64711@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <30fc78250807250336n4f52b0d0vd087fe01d1f940e6@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30fc78250807250336n4f52b0d0vd087fe01d1f940e6@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:18:52 -0000 On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 01:36:37PM +0300, Aggelidis Nikos wrote: > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > > > "I'm buying a new computer, what should I buy?" > > > > Buy whatever suits your needs, and feels comfortable for you. > > > > > With regards to OS compatibility, this is a difficult one. Googling to > > see what other people have experienced is pretty much the only option, > > or you get to find out yourself. > > But this is the reason Frank asks which computer to buy. I don't think > he is expecting to be told about the weight of a laptop; he can figure > this himself. But how can you figure OS compatibility from 20minutes > test drive? That's why you ask for other persons experiences. > Personally if i were to buy a laptop right now, i would buy one that > would be fully compatible with bsd or linux even if this meant paying > a few more euros or getting something heavier... Unfortunately this > kind of info {OS-- compatibility} isn't advertised, or written in > specs. > > >From my perspective freebsd should "advertise"(*) the laptops that > work with it, out of the box, so that new users {like me} know what to > buy; and large corporations have a benefit for promoting OS > compatibility other than Windows(tm). > > > -best regards > nikos > > (*) when i say advertise , i mean make this info publicly available > and easily accessible from the website You really have no idea to what granularity/extreme laptop vendors make changes to their laptops. Do not, even for a moment, think that any time they make a hardware modification that they change a model number or increase a version number: they don't. Hell, it's hard enough getting ASIC manufacturers to do this (Realtek I'm looking at you). Here's a real example: do you know how many actual hardware revisions/models of the T60p there are, just in the United States? Let's look: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/homeLenovo.do?country=us Select "Notebooks and Handhelds" from the pulldown. For Family, select "ThinkPad T60p". Now look at how many entries there are under Type. Choose one. Now look at how many entries there are under Model. Now do you still feel what you want is reasonable? :-) I understand where it is you're coming from -- you essentially want the same thing Microsoft totes with their "Certified for " logos on hardware -- which as I'm sure you also know amounts to nothing more than marketing schmooze. User X would report that FreeBSD works on their laptop, but then 3 months later, user Y would report feature doesn't work on their laptop, which then amounts to "is laptop really compatible with FreeBSD?" Etc. etc... I'm sure you see where I'm coming from. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 13:00:42 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AACE1065677 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:00:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail11.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail11.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.192]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B52EA8FC1B for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:00:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-215-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.215.175]) by mail11.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m6PD0chA024596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:00:39 +1000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m6PD0c7r075918; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:00:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m6PD0cJj075917; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:00:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:00:38 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Aggelidis Nikos Message-ID: <20080725130038.GT74748@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> <20080725064436.GA64711@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <30fc78250807250336n4f52b0d0vd087fe01d1f940e6@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30fc78250807250336n4f52b0d0vd087fe01d1f940e6@mail.gmail.com> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:00:42 -0000 --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2008-Jul-25 13:36:37 +0300, Aggelidis Nikos w= rote: >From my perspective freebsd should "advertise"(*) the laptops that >work with it, out of the box, so that new users {like me} know what to >buy; Who do you suggest is going to do this? Buying one of every type of laptop, installing (or working out how to install) FreeBSD and checking which bits of the laptop do/don't work with which version of FreeBSD is an expensive exercise in both time and effort. The best that exists at present is http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ - but it suffers from the problem that by the time someone has bought a laptop and checked it out, that model is obsolete. In my case, I bought my laptop because I knew someone who had the identical model. > and large corporations have a benefit for promoting OS >compatibility other than Windows(tm). The vendors don't seem interested in doing this - I suspect that they are pressured not to support anything other than Winbloze (you might notice that two very high profile Linux-only laptops have recently grown Winbloze variants). Successive generations of laptops have become less and less free-OS-friendly. --=20 Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkiJznYACgkQ/opHv/APuIdxIwCeOla4JCXBdLg7816zFoT03gfg QhoAnjp3uGU0ubz14FLEAxa8FDuyDFvn =ENKE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 14:40:56 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B5A106566C for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:40:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joerg@britannica.bec.de) Received: from www.pkgsrc-box.org (www.ostsee-abc.de [62.206.222.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF9098FC08 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:40:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joerg@britannica.bec.de) Received: from britannica.bec.de (www.pkgsrc-box.org [127.0.0.1]) by www.pkgsrc-box.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F52BEDAEEB for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:17:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by britannica.bec.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 281C28059; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:17:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:17:58 +0200 From: Joerg Sonnenberger To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080725141758.GA20940@britannica.bec.de> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <1216945181.1179.23.camel@RabbitsDen> <20080725055135.GN53966@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> <20080725064436.GA64711@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <30fc78250807250336n4f52b0d0vd087fe01d1f940e6@mail.gmail.com> <20080725130038.GT74748@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080725130038.GT74748@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:40:57 -0000 On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:00:38PM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: > Successive generations of laptops have become less and less > free-OS-friendly. This is simply wrong. Most laptops ship either with Ati or Intel chipset. Both tend to be well supported. With a bit care, you will get wpi as wireless chipset (e.g. avoid draft n). I found ACPI compliance to have improved a lot over the recent time and in fact the number of ACPI bugs that can't be worked around in general ways has become very low. Joerg From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 14:56:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5770106568A; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:56:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C9328FC14; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:56:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FF8346B03; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:56:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:56:11 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Jeremy Chadwick In-Reply-To: <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Message-ID: <20080725155502.Q21557@fledge.watson.org> References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> <20080724202140.GA2893@eos.sc1.parodius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Zamri Besar , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:56:12 -0000 On Thu, 24 Jul 2008, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > And if you go with Lenovo, be aware that their T60/T60p/T61/T61p series (and > possibly the X-series) are known to sport very high temperatures. Some > people have reported temperatures of nearly 90C on their GPU (when idling), > which has a direct effect on the overall temperature of the CPU (due to > close proximity) and so on. This requires the fan to be on at almost all > times (usually low-speed mode). Others have it worse (the laptop literally > shutting off in the middle of operation): Likewise, I've had difficulty with the z60t, which has suspend issues (it doesn't), and occasional atheros flakiness that I have been meaning to bug Sam about but haven't had time to do so as yet. Sadly, the battery failed quite quickly once the warranty expired, so I barely use it anymore, which is something of a shame but left me with a bad impression. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge > > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/stable/2008-06/msg00020.html > > Many of these laptops emit a strange high-pitch electrical noise which > fluxuates in frequency and amplitude; of course, a lot of people can't > hear it, which is good for them. This was tracked down to some power > saving features listed in the BIOS (of both the CPU and the chipset), > which you can disable: > http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_high_pitch_noises > > Be sure to look at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60p, > specifically the very bottom of the page. You'll notice a very large > number of problem entries. A lot of them have no real response from > Lenovo. > > Draw your own conclusions. > > -- > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | > | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 18:03:28 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596DA106567A for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:03:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from strontium90@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.185]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F09568FC17 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:03:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from strontium90@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so1558696nfh.33 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:03:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=RlbBP68LgUaNMdlDJdVpxcPowjf7OPMIPyt/A7q5vYY=; b=jH7LNQZbnoA3RArpAadc7uZF5yICll4GjUJxqAKFXs139zMZgM2tPXPVSpiIqUmvxa cyyHUABnpRo2x4x/+Feu+ezU4rKTzcXLJn4gqx1CYVWA0Zn0CZvmNQYlt1DQ6QJR2hKW c2NMkkhNGfJksFIEVJSweCoEB09OebXFDqAMo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=fe4j6fh0yfnzwdteNvzqVoGgVD3ctz5sv6bw1s3pUxrI9DZeb1MqVSVGWjzat1VAiL MZrJixgP7c7qMINiVL1b51cGmCg+nI1sc/BD6xUEM59UfK3XXozhUn2gFLRwnYC21Z88 N0JzsFxXg/S4QPk01MCvDb+aiWTd6dCQgnLFw= Received: by 10.210.17.14 with SMTP id 14mr2285935ebq.39.1217007453974; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crow.my.domain ( [88.86.10.15]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p10sm21586147gvf.7.2008.07.25.10.37.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:35:44 +0300 From: Razmig K User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org References: <20080725120020.A428F106569E@hub.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <20080725120020.A428F106569E@hub.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:03:28 -0000 How about Dell models which come with Ubuntu preinstalled? (Inspiron 1525N and 1420N, XPS M1330). Don't they have higher chances of running FreeBSD smoothly? A quick glance over the hardware notes of 7.0-RELEASE and some googling around show that wireless, video and audio are supported. //rk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 20:07:49 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9CA51065681 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:07:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zbeeble@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.243]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848A58FC14 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:07:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zbeeble@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b33so1468509ana.13 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:07:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=oAa7t/uGibP5UpQLUz7GXbN3AdRVXjbHUIGmA7w7N0g=; b=PKEJt6cOUiBF0I+Cr/YYa+ECkOcTAOOeX5/CKbqz5DnH1catpAP06Sh55EMiKXsK06 +p+DAFSUMaziJrh9DOa7j+ih15oZuY1gT5hCHbhw/qZ+CGwUOtSa1NmkEWqmX2osvjiI bxjvQSaGwXhOyJ5AF1xYTR7ZIvt0p4X/rlbTE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=bqWXdJUkE4fJ6DUqLuT81blEv64hLrrhV0Z2yFePGymac4js698cpntvDI09HzmfsO TK9fe1hxB/PYLsq0735MqpU06WGSao14DbVe+aUJtTxLK30afBdkbRQfMyhYViDN3Fgu FHmi8fAv9K6/gC1cwKMJQC1LLCZI2pXnNGrfc= Received: by 10.100.96.9 with SMTP id t9mr3615867anb.143.1217016468380; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.12.12 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5f67a8c40807251307q5eac959an48de528ab89d663d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:07:48 -0400 From: "Zaphod Beeblebrox" To: "Razmig K" In-Reply-To: <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20080725120020.A428F106569E@hub.freebsd.org> <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:07:49 -0000 On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Razmig K wrote: > How about Dell models which come with Ubuntu preinstalled? (Inspiron 1525N > and 1420N, XPS M1330). Don't they have higher chances of running FreeBSD > smoothly? A quick glance over the hardware notes of 7.0-RELEASE and some > googling around show that wireless, video and audio are supported. > One problem with most of the Dell offerings is that they use the NVidia video chipset. Now this is a plus if you're into playing a few games, but it sucks if you're running FreeBSD. One of the original requests was for >4G RAM. The NVidia binary driver only works on IA32, not AMD64 (and the opensource driver sucks at even 2D), so your RAM is practically limited to around 3.5G (depending on a few things). I also havn't seen very many laptops advertising >4G yet (4G, but not more than 4G). Personally, I have the XPS-1730. Largely I tolerate the slow binary driver for AMD64. I use IA32 when I need wine, but my use of ZFS (the 1730 has an option for 2 hard drives) seems to eat up kernel memory until wine can't start pretty quickly. The opensource driver does work and supports nice things like DPMS ---- it's just that the 2D acceleration feels very lacking and it also can't do things like scale a movie at full frame rate. This means that I tend to reboot into windoze for entertainment ... since I can't generally use IA32 mode productively anyways. Other than the video and the fact that I've never seen a Dell suspend successfully under FreeBSD, The laptop is well supported. The PCI express slots and their contents (USB or PCI) show up fine. Even the EVDO broadband modem is fairly easy to suppport. I think the only feature without any support is the SD card reader. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 21:25:40 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A63C11065672; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:25:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2458FC18; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:25:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6044D1CC0A0; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:25:40 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Razmig K Message-ID: <20080725212540.GA8159@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <20080725120020.A428F106569E@hub.freebsd.org> <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:25:40 -0000 On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 08:35:44PM +0300, Razmig K wrote: > How about Dell models which come with Ubuntu preinstalled? (Inspiron > 1525N and 1420N, XPS M1330). Don't they have higher chances of running > FreeBSD smoothly? A quick glance over the hardware notes of 7.0-RELEASE > and some googling around show that wireless, video and audio are > supported. A co-worker of mine has a Dell (I forget which model; I'll ask him this coming week), running Kubuntu. The overall compatibility is quite good, and I haven't heard any complaints from him. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 21:27:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1152D1065671 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:27:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from strontium90@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.185]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991BF8FC08 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:27:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from strontium90@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so1590748nfh.33 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:27:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iA77wh8NHxl6RTOnetRQ8HDIDfnr4laO536Jp8jQVIQ=; b=KX01MJvYF28mn9ctN489LJHxnpKp9rAijEq6zhmz/Y+Kf1FEfTAhrzL4mR/15Iucsr lqGv3aqiEyxISx01DDaqSZCAkLwSYsvoeHT1ucox2G1m+rc08zbV89msEbNJklQGc14l zXtYgC4GeRZFBaPOFoIZ1crzsul6lCYrXblME= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=YxLDrJkxvMN3URuWbnZHkIrdGbbKsMd/Qd+uIGtPBr4+Gu/couTFJbtaFoVvuXH3Hw vlsN691Vy3oD4+6ZSxvQjnQWsVkMsI7Tw9aor765nnOGbRERmtu+cEeBZsZOKAjoCVXv LCeBkExWny3QX2QpkSg1fv55NEkEQVdyPLxck= Received: by 10.210.50.6 with SMTP id x6mr2535244ebx.87.1217021263371; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crow.my.domain ( [88.86.9.146]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p10sm22065988gvf.7.2008.07.25.14.27.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <488A44E6.80907@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 00:25:58 +0300 From: Razmig K User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zaphod Beeblebrox References: <20080725120020.A428F106569E@hub.freebsd.org> <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> <5f67a8c40807251307q5eac959an48de528ab89d663d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5f67a8c40807251307q5eac959an48de528ab89d663d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:27:45 -0000 Zaphod Beeblebrox a écrit : > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Razmig K > wrote: > > How about Dell models which come with Ubuntu preinstalled? (Inspiron > 1525N and 1420N, XPS M1330). Don't they have higher chances of > running FreeBSD smoothly? A quick glance over the hardware notes of > 7.0-RELEASE and some googling around show that wireless, video and > audio are supported. > > > One problem with most of the Dell offerings is that they use the NVidia > video chipset. Now this is a plus if you're into playing a few games, > but it sucks if you're running FreeBSD. One of the original requests > was for >4G RAM. The NVidia binary driver only works on IA32, not AMD64 > (and the opensource driver sucks at even 2D), so your RAM is practically > limited to around 3.5G (depending on a few things). > [...] > ---- it's just that the 2D > acceleration feels very lacking and it also can't do things like scale a > movie at full frame rate. The aforementioned Dell models offer the Intel graphics accelerator X3100 as an option, which appears to be supported pretty well on both 32 and 64 bit architectures. A fairly recent thread at PC-BSD forums reports successful use of Compiz Fusion (albeit on Ubuntu Gutsy) with this accelerator: http://forums.pcbsd.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=10936&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a //rk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 21:39:46 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE1010656C3 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:39:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: from mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A7668FC13 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:39:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: (qmail 3677 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2008 21:39:45 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (HELO april.telenix.org) (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 25 Jul 2008 21:39:45 -0000 Message-ID: <488A4826.7040509@telenix.org> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:39:50 -0400 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071107) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Zaphod Beeblebrox References: <20080725120020.A428F106569E@hub.freebsd.org> <488A0EF0.6020402@gmail.com> <5f67a8c40807251307q5eac959an48de528ab89d663d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5f67a8c40807251307q5eac959an48de528ab89d663d@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 OpenPGP: id=F3DCA0E9; url=http://pgp.mit.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Razmig K , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:39:46 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Razmig K wrote: > >> How about Dell models which come with Ubuntu preinstalled? (Inspiron 1525N >> and 1420N, XPS M1330). Don't they have higher chances of running FreeBSD >> smoothly? A quick glance over the hardware notes of 7.0-RELEASE and some >> googling around show that wireless, video and audio are supported. >> > > One problem with most of the Dell offerings is that they use the NVidia > video chipset. Now this is a plus if you're into playing a few games, but > it sucks if you're running FreeBSD. There is a problem is you're running the AMD64 chipsets, but I'm running a quad core processor here, and my Nvidia card (8600GTS) with it's compiled Nvidia driver works just fine. One of the original requests was for >> 4G RAM. The NVidia binary driver only works on IA32, not AMD64 (and the > opensource driver sucks at even 2D), so your RAM is practically limited to > around 3.5G (depending on a few things). I also havn't seen very many > laptops advertising >4G yet (4G, but not more than 4G). > > Personally, I have the XPS-1730. Largely I tolerate the slow binary driver > for AMD64. I use IA32 when I need wine, but my use of ZFS (the 1730 has an > option for 2 hard drives) seems to eat up kernel memory until wine can't > start pretty quickly. The opensource driver does work and supports nice > things like DPMS ---- it's just that the 2D acceleration feels very lacking > and it also can't do things like scale a movie at full frame rate. This > means that I tend to reboot into windoze for entertainment ... since I can't > generally use IA32 mode productively anyways. > > Other than the video and the fact that I've never seen a Dell suspend > successfully under FreeBSD, The laptop is well supported. The PCI express > slots and their contents (USB or PCI) show up fine. Even the EVDO broadband > modem is fairly easy to suppport. I think the only feature without any > support is the SD card reader. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiKSCYACgkQz62J6PPcoOmb/ACdGHfxU4Rpt9k9UaYYc6X2UpFD TQkAnA0hlM1UwzDJMUpAe72zJIGQ0vBN =95ZS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 22:15:28 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25FDF1065678 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:15:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) Received: from ns1.jnielsen.net (ns1.jnielsen.net [69.55.238.237]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E16D8FC0A for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:15:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) Received: from max.local (rrcs-74-218-226-253.se.biz.rr.com [74.218.226.253]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.jnielsen.net (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id m6PM23JP058251; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:02:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) From: John Nielsen To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, frank@exit.com Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:02:23 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> In-Reply-To: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> X-Face: #X5#Y*q>F:]zT!DegL3z5Xo'^MN[$8k\[4^3rN~wm=s=Uw(sW}R?3b^*f1Wu*.<=?utf-8?q?of=5F4NrS=0A=09P*M/9CpxDo!D6?=)IY1w<9B1jB; tBQf[RU-R<,I)e"$q7N7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200807251802.23984.lists@jnielsen.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on ns1.jnielsen.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:15:28 -0000 On Thursday 24 July 2008, Frank Mayhar wrote: > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > read -mobile). I haven't played with one hands-on, but the laptop I was going to buy until $work supplied a different one was a Fujitsu Lifebook E8410. It has a few customization options if you get it from Fujitsu directly. Among these are Intel graphics and Atheros wireless, 2 of the main things I was looking for for good FreeBSD hw support. > My criteria: > * 3D acceleration. check ought to work w/ intel(4x) driver on i386 or amd64 > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it > anyway). AFAIK. I was planning to select the Atheros option and leave it.. > * At least 15" screen. 15.4 Wide with WSXGA+ option > * Decent power consumption. Unknown, but available 8-cell main and 6-cell modular batteries. > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. AFAIK. > Nice to have: > * Dual core. check. > * >4GB memory. =4GB avail. (can you get more on a laptop yet?) > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my > breath). unknown. has any progress been made WRT suspend/resume + SMP on FreeBSD in general? > > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after > ordering/installing it. Best of luck and do post your experiences. JN From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 22:24:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F6EA1065675 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:24:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE9E8FC12 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:24:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from zod.isi.edu (zod.isi.edu [128.9.168.221]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m6PMDKJs018353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from faber@localhost) by zod.isi.edu (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m6PMDK9m003504 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:13:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:13:20 -0700 From: Ted Faber To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080725221320.GA2214@zod.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cmJC7u66zC7hs+87" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: faber@zod.isi.edu Subject: Intel Q35 works (patch attached) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:24:18 -0000 --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD" Content-Disposition: inline --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some recent work in the AGP drivers seems to have combined to make FreeBSD support the Intel Q35 in my Intel Optiplex 755. Attached is a one-line patch to enable detection of the chipset (really moving a comment character). It would be great if someone would commit it. If no one notices this mail, I'll file a pr. Thanks! --=20 Ted Faber http://www.isi.edu/~faber PGP: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkeys.= asc Unexpected attachment on this mail? See http://www.isi.edu/~faber/FAQ.html#= SIG --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=patch --- dev/agp/agp_i810.c.orig 2008-06-20 15:23:41.000000000 -0700 +++ dev/agp/agp_i810.c 2008-07-25 14:12:05.000000000 -0700 @@ -156,9 +156,9 @@ "Intel Q965 SVGA controller"}, {0x29a28086, CHIP_I965, 0x00020000, "Intel G965 SVGA controller"}, -/* {0x29b28086, CHIP_G33, 0x00020000, "Intel Q35 SVGA controller"}, +/* {0x29c28086, CHIP_G33, 0x00020000, "Intel G33 SVGA controller"}, {0x29d28086, CHIP_G33, 0x00020000, --HlL+5n6rz5pIUxbD-- --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkiKUAAACgkQaUz3f+Zf+XutZACfSvJ504gLag68JSQGxpWcQljj nVMAn08GcRrRdaayw9FKPkpn9QBYeTO8 =C4HV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cmJC7u66zC7hs+87-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 22:42:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D844B106567F; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:42:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mezz7@cox.net) Received: from eastrmmtao101.cox.net (eastrmmtao101.cox.net [68.230.240.7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C9E8FC18; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:42:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mezz7@cox.net) Received: from eastrmimpo03.cox.net ([68.1.16.126]) by eastrmmtao106.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20080725222341.SCZT4226.eastrmmtao106.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net>; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:23:41 -0400 Received: from mezz.mezzweb.com ([24.255.149.218]) by eastrmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id uNPg1Z0084iy4EG02NPgVf; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:23:40 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:23:49 -0500 To: frank@exit.com From: "Jeremy Messenger" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.51 (Linux) Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:42:45 -0000 On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar wrote: > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, > so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from > this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't > read -mobile). > > My criteria: > * 3D acceleration. > * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it > anyway). > * At least 15" screen. > * Decent power consumption. > * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. > > Nice to have: > * Dual core. > * >4GB memory. > * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my > breath). > > So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for > the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after > ordering/installing it. Maybe you can wait for this: http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html I didn't compare your requirements in there, thought. Cheers, Mezz -- mezz7@cox.net - mezz@FreeBSD.org FreeBSD GNOME Team http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - gnome@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 26 04:21:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39001065677 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:21:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from outbackdingo@gmail.com) Received: from ti-out-0910.google.com (ti-out-0910.google.com [209.85.142.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F3C48FC0A for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:21:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from outbackdingo@gmail.com) Received: by ti-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id d27so1713177tid.3 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:21:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=ipbk8ahX35iMF2/SF9QEr3IJLwHb7lz/oPZBDXgY7ZQ=; b=jZvp0qLqIbFtOboc6p5KHjN8qliwTFqpV1ApNY/6J9cfKx//btjUepRaNQMh2hW5KN nEEmdApO3iYmdWVqCrZ4a6ilXQf3gwYbEfdw48F+y6Fjj95eNHb3hVJdpWCeKIuxNWwh q4ZHMHnporfJuBhaL+Cj9jbAQKjkaFZeLjj1E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=yFb6DEWiMJNGxETAleVvrDjeLjn6jA6EHDMVBoPi+XHEKWDX1Eram1I/VWIIWu08te +3bpPviiyj4vv937FEnmAG9xk9Qu5him/950G4esiDiaYKrLTWcV8CUcF9q7CeJVMcXq jxq0ussDiC4vwNxQ6m8t0+fNQnLp/48+dAOZQ= Received: by 10.110.109.12 with SMTP id h12mr2705838tic.51.1217046068848; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:21:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.110.86.17 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:21:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5635aa0d0807252121la3c7e00s41829d373c8878d5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:21:08 +0700 From: "Outback Dingo" To: "Jeremy Messenger" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1216910072.2251.8.camel@jill.exit.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Laptop suggestions? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:21:10 -0000 IBM Z series, my Z60M Titanium, runs great and still actually looks brand new being 2+ years old the X, T and Z series laptops are all decent, i cant say on quality, im still using the one i got almost three years ago with no issues. 1680x1050 on a 15'4 wide wcreen is nice also. I also have an Asus that i really havent had any issues with quite honestly. And can also say from field experience Fujitsus got some decent models available. Though take note, I dont abuse my mobile equiptment. Another way you might want to consider is a UMPC known to run FreeBSD. there are some sub-size and UMPC systems out there that will run FreeBSD nicely, ASUS makes one, and well personally im waiting on the HTC Shift to be delivered and hacked On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 5:23 AM, Jeremy Messenger wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:34:32 -0500, Frank Mayhar wrote: > > My old Dell Inspiron 5160 has developed problems that I can't fix, sigh, >> so it's time to replace it. I'm hoping for some good suggestions from >> this list (cc'd to hackers for the exposure, I know everyone doesn't >> read -mobile). >> >> My criteria: >> * 3D acceleration. >> * MiniPCI wireless (don't care which card, I'll replace it >> anyway). >> * At least 15" screen. >> * Decent power consumption. >> * Plays well with FreeBSD 7-stable. >> >> Nice to have: >> * Dual core. >> * >4GB memory. >> * Working suspend/hibernate mode (and no, I'm not holding my >> breath). >> >> So, suggestions? BTW, if I get a decent response I'll summarize it for >> the list, along with the one I chose and my experience after >> ordering/installing it. >> > > Maybe you can wait for this: > > http://www.ixsystems.com/products/bsd-laptop.html > > I didn't compare your requirements in there, thought. > > Cheers, > Mezz > > > -- > mezz7@cox.net - mezz@FreeBSD.org > FreeBSD GNOME Team > http://www.FreeBSD.org/gnome/ - gnome@FreeBSD.org > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >