From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 4 01:15:31 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FCEC1065673 for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 01:15:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shaun.bsd@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.184]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FDDB8FC1E for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 01:15:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shaun.bsd@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so940124nfh.33 for ; Sat, 03 May 2008 18:15:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=jyn20MpfvzoLG+ILwmTppgBGoii33jgI2SeZ4WIj6/w=; b=RDu842MojVBcew35djXTOOnS8QuQS7bOgZo9xK9lb1REL0fg/Ny1JCkHnUU/J2WHA21TZAmjKRC9XWqDJqtYSFvIGpXQ0cspDPrPAd53ZPfsBtfGc0IGT30eaqZPhXbhgtA3OkAOQJudiKjDpsFJjhrBzjBP+jFcreNZRa8yj1E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=YlWiL0AZcqx3zoDbOOu/P5oruEjKjHZR2ABjrXrpwMY6QZ5qhoH5mj/PVb2sG4CE1rBEv9KzcRXSS7jcQydXN08e1nbvj4mCvl8pmWXLtzkm7OR4HJV9IWNO1ch4ZkmWRcJNYPoKEkLvELurG+/Pg9h8FlNzTtDzJao87EmL/2A= Received: by 10.78.118.5 with SMTP id q5mr1248018huc.62.1209863729295; Sat, 03 May 2008 18:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.180.19 with HTTP; Sat, 3 May 2008 18:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 21:15:24 -0400 From: "Shaun Sabo" To: "Jeremy Chadwick" In-Reply-To: <20080503173408.GA58602@eos.sc1.parodius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20080503042540.GA32245@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <200805030603.GAA23115@sopwith.solgatos.com> <20080503173408.GA58602@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Dieter , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0 SATA Controller X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 01:15:31 -0000 so does that mean i need to disable the apic? and are we talking about apic now or acpi? im getting all these devices confused now. i realize that acpi is dissabled when you press number 2 at the boot menu but are we talking about that or apic? On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 11:03:16PM +0100, Dieter wrote: > > > > > > the next step im going > > > > > > to take is installing 6.2 and remaking the world but adding > device > > > > > > aptic to the kernel. > > > > > > > > > > I think you mean "device apic" to the kernel? > > > > > > > > No, it is "device aptic". It was in 6 but removed from 7. I had to > add > > > > aptic to get my nforce4-ultra board to boot 7. Given that 6 runs on > > > > Shaun's machine and 7 doesn't, adding aptic is a useful thing to > try. > > > > > > There is no "aptic" device on RELENG_6. I just did a grep -ri "aptic" > > > /usr/src on our RELENG_6 box and found absolutely no trace of said > > > device. You are thinking of "apic". > > > > Typo. Should be "device atpic". > > Ah yes. That would be the classic AT-style PIC used for interrupt > handling. That makes much more sense. :-) > > -- > | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | > | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | > | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | > | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | > > From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 4 01:34:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE843106564A for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 01:34:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D51AC8FC0C for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 01:34:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C369E1CC038; Sat, 3 May 2008 18:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 18:34:29 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Shaun Sabo Message-ID: <20080504013429.GA74129@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <20080503042540.GA32245@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <200805030603.GAA23115@sopwith.solgatos.com> <20080503173408.GA58602@eos.sc1.parodius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) Cc: Dieter , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0 SATA Controller X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 01:34:30 -0000 On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 09:15:24PM -0400, Shaun Sabo wrote: > so does that mean i need to disable the apic? and are we talking about apic > now or acpi? im getting all these devices confused now. i realize that acpi > is dissabled when you press number 2 at the boot menu but are we talking > about that or apic? ACPI: Commonly used for system configuration data (stored/controlled by BIOS), power management, and a couple other things. Unrelated to APIC and ATPIC. APIC: Advanced interrupt routing IC; more or less used to extend interrupt limitations of old PIC-based interrupts. Originally there were 16 IRQs, most taken up by system necessities. An APIC extends that to 256 IRQs, providing each device with its own IRQ, assuming the OS supports APICs, otherwise it'll resort to classic 16 IRQ behaviour (sharing of IRQs, etc.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Programmable_Interrupt_Controller ATPIC: Classic 8259 PIC ("AT PIC"), 16 IRQ limitation, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8259 Hope this clears things up for you. I've never seen a system made in the past 7-8 years which demands the use of atpic. Most present-day systems, even uni-processor systems, have an APIC, and most of the time those work without issue. If you want to disable the APIC, you can do so by booting FreeBSD in "safe mode". It should be a menu item; I forget which number. "Safe mode" will disable the following things: * Disable use of ACPI * Disable APIC * Disable DMA capability on ATA devices (does not apply to SATA) * Disable DMA capability on ATAPI device (CD/DVD-ROMs, etc.) * Disabled hard disk write caching * Disables kbdmux(4) * Does something with hw.eisa_slots, which I don't quite understand. Only "easy" reference I can find is to old Adaptec controllers requiring hw.eisa_slots="12". -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 4 16:16:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 901D7106566B; Sun, 4 May 2008 16:16:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from flat.berklix.org (flat.berklix.org [83.236.223.115]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30B708FC1D; Sun, 4 May 2008 16:16:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A724A.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.114.74]) (authenticated bits=0) by flat.berklix.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m44Fb8tg029247; Sun, 4 May 2008 17:37:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m44FfS7q030630; Sun, 4 May 2008 17:41:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.org) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m44FfNU0097633; Sun, 4 May 2008 17:41:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200805041541.m44FfNU0097633@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Jeremy Chadwick From: "Julian Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Sat, 03 May 2008 18:34:29 PDT." <20080504013429.GA74129@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 17:41:23 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.org Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0 SATA Controller X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 16:16:44 -0000 > "Safe mode" will disable the following things: A while back I searched source about what "Safe" did, & how to achieve finer control via loader.conf, & made notes: http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/hardware/laptops/#bootsafekey That was on 7.0BETA3 & prerelease, not sure if up to release. Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSDUnixLinux C Prog Admin SysEng Consult Munich www.berklix.com Mail just Ascii plain text. HTML & Base64 text are spam. From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 6 19:26:43 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF27F106564A for ; Tue, 6 May 2008 19:26:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shaun.bsd@gmail.com) Received: from gv-out-0910.google.com (gv-out-0910.google.com [216.239.58.188]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7085A8FC24 for ; Tue, 6 May 2008 19:26:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shaun.bsd@gmail.com) Received: by gv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id n8so230864gve.39 for ; Tue, 06 May 2008 12:26:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=ldN5J7RDCeG7zxi1lPwOvCrlJKJJhuKiX5mAD4RE1Bk=; b=KsbVl/BEHQ3L8gc4WNo5uVvrGwSdsXD5WQDuCglxUocq4fVpLv8OaMyAxLB0YxXbJrTOnQjC8ap0ZRVH0/sJlmFu0yx6DFEDVz/x5s0vMVp7fVIUTFA18uVINRmulTv0VWi41C4pkxEZBqSrudcMbphlosnghduaDAB0DiiT0+c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=Vc3gycJKnbDwceIPReor2/Vy8DO2Xpk8FARl6jiLF84U1u/x2viRDVUS1niWVwNBPLVFMjHA3T/5/tBM3eQYiAuj19cAf3pDt8AZyqay77aoez8C54dotkQOOPKt3EKaKOjXk+EbqEjozLw4FQpqo5g6TnXgic6iDJXzrhXS7Gc= Received: by 10.78.146.13 with SMTP id t13mr313473hud.101.1210102000607; Tue, 06 May 2008 12:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.179.6 with HTTP; Tue, 6 May 2008 12:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 15:26:40 -0400 From: "Shaun Sabo" To: "Julian Stacey" In-Reply-To: <200805041541.m44FfNU0097633@fire.js.berklix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20080504013429.GA74129@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <200805041541.m44FfNU0097633@fire.js.berklix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Jeremy Chadwick , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.0 SATA Controller X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 19:26:43 -0000 I think that there is a serious driver problem with my motherboard and freebsd 7.0 and im not sure if its worth putting too much more work into trying to get it to run. I think that im going to use the 6.3 release for now and maybe when 7.1 is released the driver problem will have worked its way out. On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Julian Stacey wrote: > > "Safe mode" will disable the following things: > > A while back I searched source about what "Safe" did, & how to achieve > finer control via loader.conf, & made notes: > http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/hardware/laptops/#bootsafekey > That was on 7.0BETA3 & prerelease, not sure if up to release. > > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey: BSDUnixLinux C Prog Admin SysEng Consult Munich > www.berklix.com > Mail just Ascii plain text. HTML & Base64 text are spam. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hardware > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hardware-unsubscribe@freebsd.org > " > From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 6 20:35:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24FA2106567C for ; Tue, 6 May 2008 20:35:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wkk@wkk.com) Received: from home.wkk.com (ns.wkk.com [199.254.204.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D600B8FC18 for ; Tue, 6 May 2008 20:35:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wkk@wkk.com) Received: from [199.254.204.65] (lap1.wkk.com [199.254.204.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by home.wkk.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m46Jtn0E071413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 6 May 2008 15:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4820B7EC.5040705@wkk.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 15:56:28 -0400 From: WKK User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-My-Bounce-Check: check Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: industrial computer flash performance issues X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 20:35:15 -0000 I have a Nagasaki IPC industrial computer that has an 8 GB flash drive on a 44 pin ATA connector. I have booted FreeBSD 6.2 and 7.0 via a USB CD drive and I am getting very bad read performance. dd if=/dev/ad0 of=/dev/null bs=128k count=100 is only showing about 4MB/s. I have also tried a CF via a PCMCIA adapter and I am also seeing about the same performance. The same CF device connected with a USB adapter (/dev/da0) gets about 16MB/s so it seems like some type of ATA driver issue. >From dmesg: atapci0: port …. …. ad0: 7765MB at ata0-master PIO4 atacontrol cap ad0 shows that dma and overlap is not supported and all the features are no. Does anyone have any suggestions for improving performance? From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 10 17:07:39 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83D1B1065671 for ; Sat, 10 May 2008 17:07:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd@fluffles.net) Received: from mail.fluffles.net (fluffles.net [80.69.95.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C3F8FC23 for ; Sat, 10 May 2008 17:07:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd@fluffles.net) Received: from [10.0.0.25] (82-171-210-125.ip.telfort.nl [82.171.210.125]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: info@fluffles.net) by mail.fluffles.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAB81B29D5D; Sat, 10 May 2008 18:47:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4825D208.5010402@fluffles.net> Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 18:49:12 +0200 From: "fluffles.net" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080505) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: WKK References: <4820B7EC.5040705@wkk.com> In-Reply-To: <4820B7EC.5040705@wkk.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: industrial computer flash performance issues X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 17:07:39 -0000 WKK wrote: > I have a Nagasaki IPC industrial computer that has an 8 GB flash drive > on a 44 pin ATA connector. I have booted FreeBSD 6.2 and 7.0 via a USB > CD drive and I am getting very bad read performance. No wonder, your flash is incapable of DMA mode, at least on FreeBSD it seems. You are using PIO mode to transfer data. This degrades a modern pc to something like pre-pentium age. So unless you are able to get it working in DMA mode (UDMA33 will be fine, the slowest setting) you won't see any good performance and interrupt cpu usage will be extremely high. It will degrade your whole system. > The same CF device connected with a USB adapter (/dev/da0) gets about > 16MB/s In that case it is using DMA and not PIO. Maybe the USB adapter takes care of that? To have good flash performance you need an SSD with advanced controller chip. One example is Mtron Mobi/PRO Serial ATA SSD, which is pricey. Samsung and Transcend have new offerings too, but may offer less performance. SLC flash is better than MLC flash, but more expensive. And i suspect your flash device without controller chip to lack support of wear leveling technique, causing your flash to be weared out in just a couple of months of operation with a lot of writes in /var/log. You may enable soft updates with long update setting to delay this wearing effect. Regards, Veronica fluffles.net From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 10 20:36:58 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 366191065678 for ; Sat, 10 May 2008 20:36:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralph@imada.sdu.dk) Received: from berlioz.imada.sdu.dk (berlioz.imada.sdu.dk [130.225.128.12]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E09008FC13 for ; Sat, 10 May 2008 20:36:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralph@imada.sdu.dk) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.imada.sdu.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 664836270D for ; Sat, 10 May 2008 22:09:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at imada.sdu.dk Received: from berlioz.imada.sdu.dk ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (berlioz.imada.sdu.dk [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id MjL27ZwRZEYK for ; Sat, 10 May 2008 20:09:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 2110ds1-od.2 (0x5550df78.adsl.cybercity.dk [85.80.223.120]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by berlioz.imada.sdu.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A5462707 for ; Sat, 10 May 2008 22:09:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <482600E4.1020809@imada.sdu.dk> Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 22:09:08 +0200 From: Ralph Zitz User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080504) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: FreeBSD 7.0 SATA Controller X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 20:36:58 -0000 I can confirm the problems mentioned originally by Shaun Sabo. I'm running FreeBSD-current on a Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe motherboard in i386 mode. Since I run "current" I'm used to certain side effects that require a livefs to undo some damage :-) I have SATA disks in raid mode which work just fine. Also I have a SATA dvdburner, which although able to boot either the install cd's and livefs cds, is not able to mount the fixit livefs ("fixit" prompt) mentioned in the previous posts. I need to attach my old ide cdrom drive to be able to do that. I'm pretty much used to this annoyance by now, but maybe it is a driver thing that needs to be looked into? Ralph Zitz.